Dianetics

[mmfk]

would anyone like to share their experiences concerning Hubbard's original "teachings" and their further development?

I've just finished a German edition from 1986 and found it fascinating...

however, I ordered the original and will compare.

and what I'd be very much interested in are personal experiences with the techniques...I'm just trying to get as much and as diverse a "verification" as I can get as I would definitely like to try it...

[Manifestor]

I have a german edition too, but i did not finish it. i read his book: "selbstanalyse" before i started reading dianetics...in my opinion he is a genius!

[Ross]

in the early days...apparently he (LRH) was ask by the Russian govt to work with them with his groundbreaking work, He declined, USA, apperently also wanted his info...he declined, not long after when Scientology was started 'they' infiltrated the org...so the story goes...

Peace

[Barron]

There was a tonne of info re Scientology and L Ron Hubbard's book Dianetics and his excellent techniques on the old Forums - no doubt Archived somewhere and the "whistlebower" that went by a pseudonym (Dane Tops was it?) that came forward and told his story (he was high up in the Org) was about 95% correct according to my sources and info.

Do read Dianetics, and the technology/training was excellent! Sadly the Church has gone to "hell in a handcart" now and yes, has been taken over and the original intent long gone. Seems now to be merely a money-making machine charging way too much for courses i hear. And the odd person i know who did join in more recent times, had adevil of a job trying to leave and be left alone when they realised it wasn't their cup of tea.

Thru prior old archived discussions you should be able to track down ex well trained auditors that could assist you should you wish to know more.
The Church used to cal these groups of ex-Scientologists "Splinter groups".,

Cheers

[justpeter]

I was in Scientology for nearly 20 years. Became a highly-trained auditor and case supervisor. One of the most highly-trained people on the planet in Scientology admin. Got myself audited up through the "secret" OT levels. Got kicked-out eventually, as most free thinkers do.

Recommendations - the tech is great but as a general rule the earlier tech is less corrupted than later versions. And look for "freezone" if you want auditing or training. I've heard it's less harsh than the official organization. Hubbard said that in Scientology: "Only the tigers survive and even they have a hard time.". Well I survived almost 20 years in the official organization. Grrrrr.

[stardustaquarion]

I read some of the books and almost got myself audited but the scrooge auditor will not do it unless I coughed up 100 pct of the money up front. At that time, more than 20 years ago, it was US$ 2000, I offered to pay 50 pct while I got the rest of the money but he would not do it

In a way I think it was divine providence and it spared much aggravation as I have always been an independant thinker and would have never fitted in their brain wash militar system, I joined the gnostics instead and studied the Essenes and their teachings and learned how to be mindfull and deal with my hung ups, all for free and given with enourmous love

Recently a friend sent me this video and I realized how fortunated I had been

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/mQ_ASja1v8g&hl=en_GB&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/mQ_ASja1v8g&hl=en_GB&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

plenty more videos about scientology harrasment in youtube

Love

[justpeter]

When discussing dianetics/scientology it's important to separate the organization (org) and the technology (tech). Most of the critical stuff you hear, including this post from stardust, is about the org. The original post in this thread was asking about the tech, not the org. In the freezone I believe you can get the tech without the hassle you tend to get from the official org, although I haven't experienced it first hand.

I believe each person has their own path and their own lessons to learn therefore this path isn't for everyone. For me, getting into (and out of) the official scientology org was absolutely vital to my spiritual progress but it was extremely tough and not to everyone's taste.

[mmfk]

thanks a lot for your contributions!
and yes, it's about the original tech - working very well, as far as I have come to understand
so let's see what the future has in store for me...I've got the material and would very much like to try it myself, maybe with a family member...?!
anyway, I couldn't find auditors in Austria (eg ron's org), but I guess it would just be more expensive (even if I got the opportunity somehow, somewhere)
and what's more, advanced techniques, etc. are probably even harder to get familiar with...
but even in the Camelot interview it's said that you go a long way with "Dianetics" itself, so...time to start :)

[kinsuemei2]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWtF1gZz6Rg



Enough said IMHO

[justpeter]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWtF1gZz6Rg



Enough said IMHO

Yep, same old stuff. This is the problem when anyone talks about this subject. Youtube links and google references come flying in. The fact that I have huge experience in the subject and therefore know what I'm talking about is completely ignored. Google and youtube rule. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

As I said earlier, this thread is about the tech so well done mmfk! I don't know what the prices are like in "Ron's Org" but the cheapest way always used to be to train as an auditor then co-audit with someone else.

[stardustaquarion]

Yep, same old stuff. This is the problem when anyone talks about this subject. Youtube links and google references come flying in. The fact that I have huge experience in the subject and therefore know what I'm talking about is completely ignored. Google and youtube rule. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

As I said earlier, this thread is about the tech so well done mmfk! I don't know what the prices are like in "Ron's Org" but the cheapest way always used to be to train as an auditor then co-audit with someone else.


People have the right to express their oppinion and you do too. Scientology and Dianetics have many detractors and many people have had a bad experiences. Those experiences are not theoretical, they are real... We are not talking about people that never have read or experienced their methods, we are talking about people that think, from their perspective, that all is not well and there are attitudes that disagree profoundly with the phylosophies being taught.

I think that all sides are entitled to their oppinions

Cheers

[justpeter]

People have the right to express their oppinion and you do too. Scientology and Dianetics have many detractors and many people have had a bad experiences. Those experiences are not theoretical, they are real... We are not talking about people that never have read or experienced their methods, we are talking about people that think, from their perspective, that all is not well and there are attitudes that disagree profoundly with the phylosophies being taught.

I think that all sides are entitled to their oppinions

Cheers

I agree that all sides are entitled to their opinions but what you seem to have missed, and keep missing despite my pointing it out twice now, is that this thread is not about Hubbard, Miscavige, Church of Scientology (CofS), or anyone's bad experiences with that organization. This thread is about the TECH. If you don't understand what TECH means then please go and look it up. If I wanted to see youtube videos about how bad the CofS/Hubbard/Miscavige are then I'd look for them myself - there are hundreds of them. And none of them are about the TECH.

And if the CofS was racist then how come in all my years there I encountered people from all walks of life, all creeds and colours, and never encountered racism in any shape or form? How come Scientology admin policy specifically states that Scientology is for all creeds and colours? Am I lying or are those youtube videos for idiots? Answers on a postcard please.

[kinsuemei2]

Ok yes I give you that the TECH is useful and I will actually say it can be extremely useful, I don't agree with LRH or the present administration, that's what i should say, your right peter, so you did not experience racism wonderful, but some people clearly have, if everybody followed the rules WE would not be in this forum right? yes no? maybe? I think you get my point. But the TECH I agree with you is worth defending, but cmon we gotta have a bash at the top dogs, it wouldn't be proper if we didn't lol

Ben

[stardustaquarion]

The books can not be sepparated from his author, obviously his theories did not worked for him and he invented them. Why should we assume they will work for us? The proof of the pudding is in the eating. If the same Hubbard that wrote the techs can not succed at having a happy, enlightened and wholesome life, and later in life became paranoid is that an endorsement of his wisdom?

I can see you don't like it, but all these and the youtube videos are also about the techs and how they fail to assist people and society

We just have a different perspective

Cheers

[kinsuemei2]

I also agree Stardust but it is also about what works for one might not work or be practical for another, I could teach a boy with calcium deficiency Muay Thai and make him an exceptional fighter, but those techs will never work for him because he can not get hit in the ring, apply that to this principle, never restrict yourself to one style of thought thing and always keep and open mind, I would go down a different road a complete opposite and teach the boy Aikido in very essence the opposite of Muay Thai and he would be able to defend himself and take on an opponent with risk sure but a more applied reasoning, now again apply that here, then some of the TECHS can work for some and not just for others, the question is a personal one when looking at teaching, that teachers still don't get, "what resonates with you?"
Ben

¤=[Post Update]=¤

And granted we are talking about Techs that came from this man.
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01532/tomato_1532615i.jpg

[justpeter]

The books can not be sepparated from his author, obviously his theories did not worked for him and he invented them. Why should we assume they will work for us? The proof of the pudding is in the eating. If the same Hubbard that wrote the techs can not succed at having a happy, enlightened and wholesome life, and later in life became paranoid is that an endorsement of his wisdom?

I can see you don't like it, but all these and the youtube videos are also about the techs and how they fail to assist people and society

We just have a different perspective

Cheers

Firstly let me make it clear that I am happy for you to question me on this subject and I admire you standing your ground:thumb:

There are two problems here. One is as I've already stated regarding the posting of negative videos about the subject which, in my opinion, are off-topic.

But the other problem is that most people who have little or no personal knowledge about the subject will have seen a lot of negative stuff on the internet and will probably believe most of it. This isn't a criticism, I'm just speaking from experience on this particular subject. It's quite difficult to speak openly and in-depth about this because I believe the postings we make here will appear on google searches and I, for one, don't want the CofS on my back. Since I left the organization, I've left them alone and they've left me alone so it's all hunky-dory and I don't want to stir things up again. Therefore I will have to be deliberately vague here.

The point you make about Hubbard is, based on my knowledge and personal opinion, flawed. Him inventing the tech? Highly doubtful. The CofS and him personally being taken over by unknown person or persons? Highly likely. Corruption of the tech in later years? Highly likely. Him using the tech on himself? Highly doubtful.

This is why anyone who has trained in the tech and has now left the CofS will ignore any negative rantings on the internet and will concentrate on the tech. If it's unadulterated then it works. Everything else is irrelevant.

As for racism, I would suggest a google search on "Creed Of A Scientologist". This is something we all had to agree to and it begins: "We of the Church believe: That all men of whatever race, color or creed were created with equal rights.........".

[stardustaquarion]

I am sorry that the CofS may get on your back is so typical isn't, but I guess you have chosen to talk about this. If the techs where not created by Hubbard who created them? If you that have been in that organization for 20 years and don't know...Surely they were not given to RH by ETs were they?

From this text I am under the impression that RH himself had a hand on his technology
Quote
About L. Ron Hubbard

As the Founder of Dianetics and Scientology, L. Ron Hubbard is broadly acclaimed as the single most influential author and humanitarian of the modern age. All told, his works comprise the definitive statement on the human mind and spirit; and with over 200 million copies of his books in circulation, he has sparked a movement spanning every culture on Earth.

In 1973 L. Ron Hubbard conducted a sociological study in New York City and found a society that had dramatically worsened from the city he remembered years before. From this study he predicted exactly where the society was headed: rampant immorality, violence as sport, and ultimately, politics by terrorism.

Needed was a reorientation to spiritual values, a way to help others live their lives and build their futures. In answer, Mr. Hubbard drew the plans for a grass-roots movement, one that would instill these values back into society and so halt the decline.

The Scientology Volunteer Minister Program is that grass-roots movement, spreading real answers out into a society where otherwise people could only watch the trend of world events in fear and anxiety. What makes this program unique is the application of practical technology that can be applied to virtually any facet of life, by anyone and at any time.

Solutions are available that address the pressing concerns each one of us face today: illiteracy, immorality and drugs, violence and terrorism, intolerance and revolt. Something can be done about it, and the Scientology Volunteer Ministers are doing exactly that.

More on L. Ron Hubbard >>
http://www.volunteerministers.org/aboutlrh/index.html

Cheers

[stardustaquarion]

Ok, this information from wikipedia should settle this matter, the said Hubbard created "auditing"

Dianetics
Main article: Dianetics

Scientology was developed by L Ron Hubbard as a successor to his earlier self-help system, Dianetics. Dianetics uses a counseling technique known as auditing, developed by Hubbard to enable conscious recall of traumatic events in an individual's past.[5] It was originally intended to be a new psychotherapy and was not expected to become the foundation for a new religion.[31][32]

Hubbard, an American writer of pulp fiction, especially science fiction,[33] first published his ideas on the human mind in the Explorers Club Journal and the May 1950 issue of Astounding Science Fiction magazine.[34] Two of Hubbard's key supporters at the time were John W. Campbell Jr., the editor of Astounding Science Fiction, and Dr. Joseph A. Winter. Winter, hoping to have Dianetics accepted in the medical community, submitted papers outlining the principles and methodology of Dianetic therapy to the Journal of the American Medical Association and the American Journal of Psychiatry in 1949, but these were rejected.[35][36]

link here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology)

This also from wikipedia

Scientology has been surrounded by controversies since its inception. It has often been described as a cult that financially defrauds and abuses its members, charging exorbitant fees for its spiritual services.[6][15][16] The Church of Scientology has consistently used litigation against such critics, and its aggressiveness in pursuing its foes has been condemned as harassment.[17][18] Further controversy has focused on Scientology's belief that souls ("thetans") reincarnate and have lived on other planets before living on Earth.[19] Former members say that some of Hubbard's writings on this remote extraterrestrial past, included in confidential Upper Levels, are not revealed to practitioners until they have paid thousands of dollars to the Church of Scientology.[20][21] Another controversial belief held by Scientologists is that the practice of psychiatry is destructive and abusive and must be abolished.[22][23]
unquote

Wikipedia is neutral as far as I know

Cheers

[stardustaquarion]

This is fascinating, CofS apparently mantains that we are operated by alien implants and you have to spend thousands of dollars to get rid of the implant (yeah right!). Here more from wikipedia

quote
Description

Scientology doctrine defines OT as the "highest state there is". The OT would be able to "control or operate thought, life, matter, energy, space and time" whether he has a body or not.[3] The largest part of the current "OT Levels" delivered in Scientology, Levels I through VII, are, according to the Church, pre-OT or preparatory levels with the first actual "OT Level" being Level VIII.[4] The state of Operating Thetan is represented by a symbol consisting of the letters OT with the T inside the O and each of the points of the T ending at the O's circumference.

After having removed one's own reactive mind and thus attaining the state of Clear, one may then go on to the levels above OT III which were later replaced by New Era Dianetics for OTs. L. Ron Hubbard wrote on September 15, 1978: "There is a special handling for OTs who have been run on Dianetics since Clear. It is called 'NED for OTs'."[5]

In March 2008, Church of Scientology's Operating Thetan documents were leaked on Wikileaks.[6] The Church of Scientology claimed their hosting is a copyright violation implying that the collection (or some part of it) is (or was at some point) Church doctrine.[7]
[edit] Criticism

It is alleged that people are encouraged to complete very expensive courses and expect wonderful results; when the improvements fail to happen they are told the next course will bring the changes they anticipate. Members continue paying out steadily more for courses, and some even put their families into debt while chasing the elusive life-changing results

Link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_Thetan) it also describe all the different levels of techniques

Cheers

[justpeter]

stardustaquarion, you are out of control. As I said earlier, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Please keep googling and keep ranting if it makes you feel good. If you ever feel like handling your problems then I can recommend the appropriate scientology tech for you.

:closed_2:

[justpeter]

For any serious observer of this thread I would like to clarify my previous post.

This thread is about scientology tech. If anyone respectfully asks me about scientology tech or, occasionally, the subject in general, then I will usually attempt to answer. What stardustaquarion is doing here isn't respectful questioning. It is what is known in scientology as "make wrong", which is an aberration that can be handled by Grade 4 auditing. Hence my offer to help stardust when she eventually calms down. As I said in an earlier post, the mention of the word "scientology" to people who know little or nothing about it usually results in frantic google searches, postings of negative videos, and a general hysteria prevailing. I knew this would happen and it did. Am I a genius? No, just well experienced in this subject.

[stardustaquarion]

Thank you Peter your post made me laugh this morning! Pitty you had to wait 20 years and pay lots of $$$ to find out that wikipedia knew all along that Hubbard made the techs. Good luck mate, and hope the CofS don't give you a hard time for being in a thread that is revealing the secret of the Thetans:laugh::pound:

[stardustaquarion]

Now all jokes aside, I will not get audited even if they pay me millions of dollars as I don't want to end like this people

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/rCGP-0545EU&hl=en_GB&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/rCGP-0545EU&hl=en_GB&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

The above cases are real

As I said before, providence save me once and I don't like to tempt faith

This is not personal but I think your gods have feet of mud

I know you are a nice person and mean well, but you yourself are no loger part of them, so why do you think you feel so compeled to defend them?

Cheers

Last question, why do you think that people that follow the techs end up doing things like in the video? The techs are suppoused to help you achieve happiness yet they have recked lives from the begining. Wouldn't you think that there may something wrong with the techs themselves?

[justpeter]

I know you are a nice person and mean well, but you yourself are no loger part of them, so why do you think you feel so compeled to defend them?

Cheers

I seem to have entered a parallel reality where nothing I say gets heard. It's very strange. I don't know who "them" is but if it's the people you keep talking about then why do you think I'm defending them? Do I not keep saying that I'm talking about the tech and not the people or organization? I got kicked out of the organization for trying to protect the tech. That was my crime. After I left I found out that many others had done the same. The tech is everything. The organization and people are irrelevant to what I'm saying. And by tech I mean original, unadulterated tech applied standardly by competent practitioners. That is all I'm defending. The tech that was created by many, many like-minded people all gathering together at a unique point of time to create something good that would later be corrupted. The guy who took credit for it all should have tried applying it to his personal life. The current guy in charge isn't even sufficiently qualified in the tech to be my junior. Do I care? No. The tech is all.

I know you mean well too and I don't dislike you.

[stardustaquarion]

I am also in a parallel reality, you can not sepparate the techs from its creator nor their followers, something is not working with these famous techs.
Wikipedia says they do not work

Answer the questions if you want or not but you can not brush the facts under the carpet

Cheers

[sargeist]

Wikipedia?

Really?

Wow.

Personaly i have no time for scientology, but there is something to some of the technology and techniques, in particular the older stuff.

[stardustaquarion]

Wikipedia?

Really?

Wow.

Personaly i have no time for scientology, but there is something to some of the technology and techniques, in particular the older stuff.

Yes here is my previous post with the link http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?1459-Dianetics&p=14643&viewfull=1#post14643

Cheers

[justpeter]

I am also in a parallel reality, you can not sepparate the techs from its creator nor their followers, something is not working with these famous techs.
Wikipedia says they do not work

Answer the questions if you want or not but you can not brush the facts under the carpet

Cheers

I'm finding it hard to believe you are really serious when you say "Wikipedia says they do not work" but I guess I have to assume you really are. This is like a video game where I somehow keep getting bounced back to the beginning. Ok, here we go again.

When people who have little or no knowledge of this subject try to discuss it they look on the internet, find all kinds of weird and wonderful things, and want answers to all the negative stuff out there about it. People like me try our best to ignore all of this but sometimes it just won't go away. Obviously I was mistaken when I thought that by explaining some of my extensive knowledge on the subject I could somehow gain a little respect and thereby eliminate some of this negativity. I admit my mistake.

Right, so wikipedia says the tech doesn't work. Please go and tell wikipedia they are talking out of their bottom.

Now I will add a little anecdote and end up by further repeating myself.

When I first started out I had about 50 hours of Dianetics auditing. It didn't work. I then had about 5 hours of auditing on an e-meter. It didn't work. I then had another 5 hours of auditing on an e-meter with a different auditor and it worked. Years later when I had trained to be an auditor myself I could look back and see what went wrong. Both of the first two auditors were inexperienced and made basic errors in the application of the tech. It wasn't the tech that was wrong, it was the application. Obviously, I could have left after the first two attempts and spent the rest of my life telling people that scientology doesn't work, yakkety-yakkety-yak like many people do, especially on the internet. But I persisted and found out the truth.

Which brings me to the point of repeating myself once again. If the standard tech is applied standardly by a competent person then it works. If it doesn't appear to work then either it isn't standard tech or it isn't being applied standardly or the wrong piece of tech is being applied to the situation where a different piece of the tech is more applicable.

I've received hundreds of hours of auditing, audited other people for hundreds of hours, and as a case supervisor have had access to the private folders of dozens of people who have received auditing. I say the tech works but wikipedia says it doesn't. And you wonder why I don't want to talk about this:ohwell:

As I said earlier, I'm happy to answer questions from anyone who genuinely wants to know something but just throwing this internet tittle-tattle at me in the way you do isn't helpful. If someone believes what they see on the internet rather than someone who has experience in the subject then the only point in questioning the person, as far as I can see, is to try to make them wrong. Is that helpful? I don't think so.

[sargeist]

Sorry, I was being a little bit sarcastic. Not a fan of wikipedia. Not a fan at all.

To easy to just make stuff up.

Look into the history of wikipedia, and who does the most 'editing' of articles.

Thanks anyway :)

[stardustaquarion]

I'm finding it hard to believe you are really serious when you say "Wikipedia says they do not work" but I guess I have to assume you really are. This is like a video game where I somehow keep getting bounced back to the beginning. Ok, here we go again.

When people who have little or no knowledge of this subject try to discuss it they look on the internet, find all kinds of weird and wonderful things, and want answers to all the negative stuff out there about it. People like me try our best to ignore all of this but sometimes it just won't go away. Obviously I was mistaken when I thought that by explaining some of my extensive knowledge on the subject I could somehow gain a little respect and thereby eliminate some of this negativity. I admit my mistake.

Right, so wikipedia says the tech doesn't work. Please go and tell wikipedia they are talking out of their bottom.

Now I will add a little anecdote and end up by further repeating myself.

When I first started out I had about 50 hours of Dianetics auditing. It didn't work. I then had about 5 hours of auditing on an e-meter. It didn't work. I then had another 5 hours of auditing on an e-meter with a different auditor and it worked. Years later when I had trained to be an auditor myself I could look back and see what went wrong. Both of the first two auditors were inexperienced and made basic errors in the application of the tech. It wasn't the tech that was wrong, it was the application. Obviously, I could have left after the first two attempts and spent the rest of my life telling people that scientology doesn't work, yakkety-yakkety-yak like many people do, especially on the internet. But I persisted and found out the truth.

Which brings me to the point of repeating myself once again. If the standard tech is applied standardly by a competent person then it works. If it doesn't appear to work then either it isn't standard tech or it isn't being applied standardly or the wrong piece of tech is being applied to the situation where a different piece of the tech is more applicable.

I've received hundreds of hours of auditing, audited other people for hundreds of hours, and as a case supervisor have had access to the private folders of dozens of people who have received auditing. I say the tech works but wikipedia says it doesn't. And you wonder why I don't want to talk about this:ohwell:

As I said earlier, I'm happy to answer questions from anyone who genuinely wants to know something but just throwing this internet tittle-tattle at me in the way you do isn't helpful. If someone believes what they see on the internet rather than someone who has experience in the subject then the only point in questioning the person, as far as I can see, is to try to make them wrong. Is that helpful? I don't think so.

How much it cost you all that sub standard auditing?

Cheers

PS I found this very clear and well explained article on Dianetics by a Psychiatrist http://www.solitarytrees.net/pubs/psyscn.htm

Dianetics auditing offers a series of therapeutic "courses" with payment by contract in advance) on a path from pre-release" to "release" to "pre-clear" to the rare but ultimate "clear" (of all engrams) to reach "total freedom." each treatment course is really a succession of auditing sessions to rid the individual of unwanted attitudes, emotions and behaviors. Auditors themselves receive training through courses of their own. This works as a sort of pyramid scheme, with thousands of people auditing those at levels below them while being audited by others at levels above them. As in all pyramid schemes, most of the money ends up at the top.

The final challenge for the "clear" Scientologist is to become an "Operating Thetan." Here again there are several further steps for advanced Scientologist to gain greater comprehension of Hubbard's "religious" teachings (grafted on to he original Dianetics) about how aberrant behavior was implanted in humans 75 million years ago by an evil ruler named Xenu from another galaxy. Xenu froze humans and dropped them into volcanoes. After killing humans with hydrogen bombs to overcome overpopulation, Xenu collected their spirits as they rose from the volcanoes and implanted the spirits with evil thoughts. Since then, clusters of these evil spirits ("body Thetans") have attached themselves to humans as they are reincarnated though eons of time, and are responsible for all aberrant behaviors.

Enlightenment isn't cheap. Depending on ability to pay (or willingness to mortgage one's future) individuals can spend from initially small amounts up to $1000 per hour of auditing which is purchased in twelve half-hour blocks called "intensives." It can cost $50,000 to $100,000 or more to complete — if ever — the numerous courses. There are also hundreds of optional courses based on Hubbard's teachings which can range in price up to $16,500. A growing number of members now have families within the organization. Their children attend private schools run by Scientologists. Staff members are subject to a detailed mode of behavior, with progressive punishments for errors, misdemeanors, crimes, and high crimes.

[Connecting with Sauce]

As I said earlier, I'm happy to answer questions from anyone who genuinely wants to know something but just throwing this internet tittle-tattle at me in the way you do isn't helpful. If someone believes what they see on the internet rather than someone who has experience in the subject then the only point in questioning the person, as far as I can see, is to try to make them wrong. Is that helpful? I don't think so.

Hello Justpeter,

Ok. Now if someone didn't believe Wikipedia or all the other internet white noise on these topics... but genuinely wanted to get audited WITHOUT the dead end routes mentioned and untrained application of the tech or incorrect tech for the situation... HOW would one actually find someone who was able to assess someone fairly, give them a quote without rediculous financial sums being outlaid up front and know that the person was capable of performing whatever auditing can give you.

I'd also like to know what someone can expect once they are fully audited.

ps I'd also like to know how to set up "ignore" on this forum if it is possible...

[justpeter]

Hello Justpeter,

Ok. Now if someone didn't believe Wikipedia or all the other internet white noise on these topics... but genuinely wanted to get audited WITHOUT the dead end routes mentioned and untrained application of the tech or incorrect tech for the situation... HOW would one actually find someone who was able to assess someone fairly, give them a quote without rediculous financial sums being outlaid up front and know that the person was capable of performing whatever auditing can give you.

I'd also like to know what someone can expect once they are fully audited.

ps I'd also like to know how to set up "ignore" on this forum if it is possible...

Hi, I've sent you a PM but the answer is basically that I don't know how to connect up with people that you're asking about. Outside of the official organization is what is generically known as the freezone. I don't know how to contact them, what they charge, or anything else. They don't like advertising themselves. Sorry.

What can someone expect when audited? This is an impossible question to answer here. I can only suggest trying to google Scientology Grade Chart. That is a chart that gives the expected results for each grade of auditing. That is what one would term the standard route but there are many other auditing procedures that deal with other things that might come up. Normally someone would start at the bottom of the chart and keep going to the top but it rarely works like that. There are many other auditing procedures that can be done along the way. It's a huge subject. Far bigger than most people realise.

"Ignore"? No idea, sorry.

[justpeter]

How much it cost you all that sub standard auditing?

Cheers

PS I found this very clear and well explained article on Dianetics by a Psychiatrist http://www.solitarytrees.net/pubs/psyscn.htm

Dianetics auditing offers a series of therapeutic "courses" with payment by contract in advance) on a path from pre-release" to "release" to "pre-clear" to the rare but ultimate "clear" (of all engrams) to reach "total freedom." each treatment course is really a succession of auditing sessions to rid the individual of unwanted attitudes, emotions and behaviors. Auditors themselves receive training through courses of their own. This works as a sort of pyramid scheme, with thousands of people auditing those at levels below them while being audited by others at levels above them. As in all pyramid schemes, most of the money ends up at the top.

The final challenge for the "clear" Scientologist is to become an "Operating Thetan." Here again there are several further steps for advanced Scientologist to gain greater comprehension of Hubbard's "religious" teachings (grafted on to he original Dianetics) about how aberrant behavior was implanted in humans 75 million years ago by an evil ruler named Xenu from another galaxy. Xenu froze humans and dropped them into volcanoes. After killing humans with hydrogen bombs to overcome overpopulation, Xenu collected their spirits as they rose from the volcanoes and implanted the spirits with evil thoughts. Since then, clusters of these evil spirits ("body Thetans") have attached themselves to humans as they are reincarnated though eons of time, and are responsible for all aberrant behaviors.

Enlightenment isn't cheap. Depending on ability to pay (or willingness to mortgage one's future) individuals can spend from initially small amounts up to $1000 per hour of auditing which is purchased in twelve half-hour blocks called "intensives." It can cost $50,000 to $100,000 or more to complete — if ever — the numerous courses. There are also hundreds of optional courses based on Hubbard's teachings which can range in price up to $16,500. A growing number of members now have families within the organization. Their children attend private schools run by Scientologists. Staff members are subject to a detailed mode of behavior, with progressive punishments for errors, misdemeanors, crimes, and high crimes.

That's more like it. Some comedy to lighten things up:sarcastic:

If you do more google searches you might find that one of the aims of the CofS is to eliminate psychiatry from the face of the planet because they think they can do a better job. And when they declare someone to be an enemy they don't hide the fact, they publicise it loud and clear. So if you want to know what psychiatrists say about scientology, you don't need to google it, just imagine all the negative things you could say about anyone and you've pretty much got it. Do the reverse and you've got what scientology says about psychiatry. Do I care? No. Is any of this important information? No, but it's obvious you went a bit nuts on this subject quite some time ago so don't let me stop you. Google away.

[stardustaquarion]

Peter says " dianetics are good cos I say so" :hail:

With all due respect Peter, you seem to be just like samvado "your way or the highway" so if we do not agree with your view point we are just ridiculous. Ok I am sure is CofS indoctrination

So now all psychiatrists are wrong too, the list grows on I suppose but I have better things to do that try to reason with you. The difference is that at least psychiatrists have a licence and can be sue for malpractice unlike the other lot of nutters that believe that the Xenos are the root of all evil and don't have quality control or colleges to supervise them :der:

This seems to be just another money making scam tinged by sci fi

Talking about disempowering practices so now it is the ETs fault that we are so evil come on, humanity is not a victim

Good luck to you mate and thank you, if I ever had doubts now I am clear that I did the right thing. All these have been most enlightening

Cheers

[justpeter]

Peter says " dianetics are good cos I say so" :hail:

With all due respect Peter, you seem to be just like samvado "your way or the highway" so if we do not agree with your view point we are just ridiculous. Ok I am sure is CofS indoctrination

So now all psychiatrists are wrong too, the list grows on I suppose but I have better things to do that try to reason with you. The difference is that at least psychiatrists have a licence and can be sue for malpractice unlike the other lot of nutters that believe that the Xenos are the root of all evil and don't have quality control or colleges to supervise them :der:

This seems to be just another money making scam tinged by sci fi

Talking about disempowering practices so now it is the ETs fault that we are so evil come on, humanity is not a victim

Good luck to you mate and thank you, if I ever had doubts now I am clear that I did the right thing. All these have been most enlightening

Cheers

Wow, this is the weirdest post yet. Congratulations! You've been trying to reason with me? Really?:laugh: You know NOTHING about the subject:laugh: How the hell can you reason with someone who has years of experience in a subject when you know nothing about it? Are you really serious?

"ETs fault that we are so evil" - you BELIEVED that?! Honestly?!! You think I believe it? Wow!!!!!!!!:laugh:

This was a thread started by someone who was asking for information. I did my best to help by providing the information as best I could. All you have done is come in here with no intention other than to mock, ridicule, make wrong, be insulting, and make a damn nuisance of yourself. If that is the end result of the teachings of Keylontic Science that you are always going on about then boy are they on the wrong track.

Take some time to read back over the posts in this thread and compare mine with yours. Which one is the sanest individual would you say? You? Really? Honestly? No, you can't be that far gone surely.

ps. I've reported you to the mods for "Hate Speech". Scientology is an official religion in the US, where I believe this forum is hosted. Validly-held opinions are one thing but religious intolerance is quite different.

[stardustaquarion]

Wow, this is the weirdest post yet. Congratulations! You've been trying to reason with me? Really?:laugh: You know NOTHING about the subject:laugh: How the hell can you reason with someone who has years of experience in a subject when you know nothing about it? Are you really serious?

"ETs fault that we are so evil" - you BELIEVED that?! Honestly?!! You think I believe it? Wow!!!!!!!!:laugh:

This was a thread started by someone who was asking for information. I did my best to help by providing the information as best I could. All you have done is come in here with no intention other than to mock, ridicule, make wrong, be insulting, and make a damn nuisance of yourself. If that is the end result of the teachings of Keylontic Science that you are always going on about then boy are they on the wrong track.

Take some time to read back over the posts in this thread and compare mine with yours. Which one is the sanest individual would you say? You? Really? Honestly? No, you can't be that far gone surely.

ps. I've reported you to the mods for "Hate Speech". Scientology is an official religion in the US, where I believe this forum is hosted. Validly-held opinions are one thing but religious intolerance is quite different.

I have been none of the above and please do not cite phrases out of context, I don't believe any of the dianetics BS.

KS has nothing to do with my personal oppinion, I have my own mind that has not been stolen by the "Operating Thetan" :alien:

Oh my! if now putting together some facts out of the internet is called "hate speach" whatever next , are you going to send me the CofS then or threaten to kill me?

Have a cuppa Peter, I think you need it :tea:

Cheers

[lisa]

There was a tonne of info re Scientology and L Ron Hubbard's book Dianetics and his excellent techniques on the old Forums - no doubt Archived somewhere and the "whistlebower" that went by a pseudonym (Dane Tops was it?) that came forward and told his story (he was high up in the Org) was about 95% correct according to my sources and info.
Link to Dane Tops interview: http://projectcamelot.org/lang/en/dane_tops_en.html

[morguana]

i see no problem with a healthy debate on this subject, however, please if this subject is triggering unsettled responces then a bit of time away from this thread may be needed to recentre.
we live in technicolour and shades of grey and not just black and white.

as buddha said....
master yourself according to the law.
this is the simple teaching of the awakened

love m

[samvado]

i see no problem with a healthy debate on this subject, however, please if this subject is triggering unsettled responces then a bit of time away from this thread may be needed to recentre.
we live in technicolour and shades of grey and not just black and white.

as buddha said....
master yourself according to the law.
this is the simple teaching of the awakened

love m

which Buddha?
which LAW?

[morguana]

what ever law feels truely right deep down inside you samvado and buddha means enlightened one/being, so there fore my guess is your own buddha nature


and on that note im off to chill

[justpeter]

The problem is morguana that this is not a healthy debate but a tirade by a religious bigot who has hijacked this thread to air her vile views. If we don't stand up to religious intolerance then we are giving bigots everywhere the green light to come here and trash the views of decent people seeking enlightenment. I think you and the mods need to look at this again and deal with this person because I for one am not going to lie down and be trampled on. This will continue if you don't do something. I'm giving the mods first option. Please take it so that the forum doesn't suffer any more unnecessary disruption.

ps. Look through this thread and notice how she mistook my kindness for weakness and continued her relentless attack. Please don't let the mods make the same mistake.

pps. Closing down this thread won't help because I'll take this all over the forum. At some point you'll have to decide who to deal with, the bigot or the person defending religious freedom.

[stardustaquarion]

The problem is morguana that this is not a healthy debate but a tirade by a religious bigot who has hijacked this thread to air her vile views. If we don't stand up to religious intolerance then we are giving bigots everywhere the green light to come here and trash the views of decent people seeking enlightenment. I think you and the mods need to look at this again and deal with this person because I for one am not going to lie down and be trampled on. This will continue if you don't do something. I'm giving the mods first option. Please take it so that the forum doesn't suffer any more unnecessary disruption.

ps. Look through this thread and notice how she mistook my kindness for weakness and continued her relentless attack. Please don't let the mods make the same mistake.

pps. Closing down this thread won't help because I'll take this all over the forum. At some point you'll have to decide who to deal with, the bigot or the person defending religious freedom.

What is wrong with you? You are the one that has attacked me. For starters, the matterial posted is from the internet not mine so please if you feel offended because others have a different oppinion what are you saying? that you want to leave in a scientology yes man world?

Chill out man I am entitled to my oppinion and my oppinion is that there is evidence posted by others all over the internet, that something is really wrong with the techs you are promoting. It appears that people have died and commited suicide, sepparated from their families, charged extortionated amounts of money.

You yourself say that you can not recomend anyone and that the first 100 hours of auditing did not worked for you(US$ 1000 per hour = US$ 100,000) . Why recomend something you are not sure will work?


Cheers

[morguana]

The problem is morguana that this is not a healthy debate but a tirade by a religious bigot who has hijacked this thread to air her vile views. If we don't stand up to religious intolerance then we are giving bigots everywhere the green light to come here and trash the views of decent people seeking enlightenment. I think you and the mods need to look at this again and deal with this person because I for one am not going to lie down and be trampled on. This will continue if you don't do something. I'm giving the mods first option. Please take it so that the forum doesn't suffer any more unnecessary disruption.

ps. Look through this thread and notice how she mistook my kindness for weakness and continued her relentless attack. Please don't let the mods make the same mistake.

pps. Closing down this thread won't help because I'll take this all over the forum. At some point you'll have to decide who to deal with, the bigot or the person defending religious freedom.

dear justpeter we have no intention of closing this thread, but may i remind you not to call other members names and for all concerned to treat others with respect. i happen to find that inorder to make an INFORMED choice both sides of a debate must be presented and this means that members are at liberty to take an opposing view to yours. we have looked at this thread and we see nothing wrong in it other than the comments aimed personally towards other memebers.

please may folk exercise tolerence at all times and remember that we are interacting with real people even if we cant see them

love m

[justpeter]

What is wrong with you? You are the one that has attacked me. For starters, the matterial posted is from the internet not mine so please if you feel offended because others have a different oppinion what are you saying? that you want to leave in a scientology yes man world?

Chill out man I am entitled to my oppinion and my oppinion is that there is evidence posted by others all over the internet, that something is really wrong with the techs you are promoting. It appears that people have died and commited suicide, sepparated from their families, charged extortionated amounts of money.

You yourself say that you can not recomend anyone and that the first 100 hours of auditing did not worked for you(US$ 1000 per hour = US$ 100,000) . Why recomend something you are not sure will work?


Cheers

You entered a forum that you had no interest in and proceeded to wage a sustained, relentless off-topic attack on a religion that you know nothing about apart from negative tittle-tattle you saw on the internet. I tried to be kind to you, answering questions, joking around and all the while trying to do what I came to the thread to do which was to HELP the person who needed it. You mistook my kindness for weakness and continued your relentless sneering, jeering, negative, low-level attack on me and on the religion that was only vaguely being discussed in the thread.

Look up the word "bigot" then look in a mirror and say "hello". Do the AzuritePress teach you to be like this or have you learned it somewhere else? If the mods don't deal with you then I'll ask some people who follow the same teachings as you if this is what they are being taught too. If not, then perhaps they can educate you as to where you are going wrong. And I will do this all publicly on this forum so everyone can see it happening.

If the mods don't step in then everyone on this forum is going to have to decide if they are for or against religious intolerance. Ignoring it will not be an option. This is going forum-wide very soon if no action is taken here and suspending me would be a decision by the mods that the forum is in favour of religious discrimination, which would, in my opinion, not be a sane decision.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


dear justpeter we have no intention of closing this thread, but may i remind you not to call other members names and for all concerned to treat others with respect. i happen to find that inorder to make an INFORMED choice both sides of a debate must be presented and this means that members are at liberty to take an opposing view to yours. we have looked at this thread and we see nothing wrong in it other than the comments aimed personally towards other memebers.

please may folk exercise tolerence at all times and remember that we are interacting with real people even if we cant see them

love m

Ok, in that case I'll deal with it myself.

[blue777]

You entered a forum that you had no interest in and proceeded to wage a sustained, relentless off-topic attack on a religion that you know nothing about apart from negative tittle-tattle you saw on the internet. I tried to be kind to you, answering questions, joking around and all the while trying to do what I came to the thread to do which was to HELP the person who needed it. You mistook my kindness for weakness and continued your relentless sneering, jeering, negative, low-level attack on me and on the religion that was only vaguely being discussed in the thread.

Look up the word "bigot" then look in a mirror and say "hello". Do the AzuritePress teach you to be like this or have you learned it somewhere else? If the mods don't deal with you then I'll ask some people who follow the same teachings as you if this is what they are being taught too. If not, then perhaps they can educate you as to where you are going wrong. And I will do this all publicly on this forum so everyone can see it happening.

If the mods don't step in then everyone on this forum is going to have to decide if they are for or against religious intolerance. Ignoring it will not be an option. This is going forum-wide very soon if no action is taken here and suspending me would be a decision by the mods that the forum is in favour of religious discrimination, which would, in my opinion, not be a sane decision.

¤=[Post Update]=¤



Ok, in that case I'll deal with it myself.

I see I am not the only one who gets into hot water...the problem is easily solved....evryone is on a different spiritual path and they have to experience their spirituality to move forward...some are conned , some actually achieve some learning however...AS NO-ONE HAS THE DEFINITIVE TRUTH.....NO-ONE CAN SAY THEIR RELIGIONS OR THOUGHTS ARE THE AUTHORITY............we all have the freedom of choice..therefore peace brothers and sisters..lol..love of light

[justpeter]

I see I am not the only one who gets into hot water...the problem is easily solved....evryone is on a different spiritual path and they have to experience their spirituality to move forward...some are conned , some actually achieve some learning however...AS NO-ONE HAS THE DEFINITIVE TRUTH.....NO-ONE CAN SAY THEIR RELIGIONS OR THOUGHTS ARE THE AUTHORITY............we all have the freedom of choice..therefore peace brothers and sisters..lol..love of light

No-one here was saying their religion is the authority. Your comments are missing the point. This was a sustained attack on a religion that was not relevant to this topic and is not even my religion. It was religious intolerance for no reason other than to inject a low-level negative vibration into a topic where HELP was being asked-for and given. I don't like to see ANY religion being attacked in this bitter, twisted way and I'm amazed this forum allows it.

[blue777]

No-one here was saying their religion is the authority. Your comments are missing the point. This was a sustained attack on a religion that was not relevant to this topic and is not even my religion. It was religious intolerance for no reason other than to inject a low-level negative vibration into a topic where HELP was being asked-for and given. I don't like to see ANY religion being attacked in this bitter, twisted way and I'm amazed this forum allows it.

Religious intolerance is also a freedom of choice, exactly the same way as some esoteric groups are demonized etc....a low negative vibration is in all of us that is how we learn through our mistakes....if you do not like religion being attacked..I think religion was created to control the masses
lol

[K626]

Behind the scenes all religions are the same, hardly worth arguing about.

Peace.

K

[stardustaquarion]

I see I am not the only one who gets into hot water...the problem is easily solved....evryone is on a different spiritual path and they have to experience their spirituality to move forward...some are conned , some actually achieve some learning however...AS NO-ONE HAS THE DEFINITIVE TRUTH.....NO-ONE CAN SAY THEIR RELIGIONS OR THOUGHTS ARE THE AUTHORITY............we all have the freedom of choice..therefore peace brothers and sisters..lol..love of light

Hear, hear, Blue777 thank you for your post, I agree that we are all entitled to our points of view

Peter calling someone bigot because your arguments are not good enough to make them see your points is childish same as involving third parties that are not related in anyway or form to me or the argument, that is just so inmature but well it goes to show...what the tech are about

Anyway who cares about your oppinion, you have shown your true colours and I know where I stand now and why I should never bother to answer to your posts. Good luck to you mate I am sure the CofS are proud of you

This is what you want from me

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3346/3270338779_661e849aa6.jpg

isn't it

[justpeter]

Hear, hear, Blue777 thank you for your post, I agree that we are all entitled to our points of view

Peter calling someone bigot because your arguments are not good enough to make them see your points is childish same as involving third parties that are not related in anyway or form to me or the argument, that is just so inmature but well it goes to show...what the tech are about

Anyway who cares about your oppinion, you have shown your true colours and I know where I stand now and why I should never bother to answer to your posts. Good luck to you mate I am sure the CofS are proud of you

This is what you want from me

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3346/3270338779_661e849aa6.jpg

isn't it

I've already had a follower of Anna Hayes PM me to apologise for your behaviour. Try setting a better example.

[morguana]

please keep this thread on topic thank you




would anyone like to share their experiences concerning Hubbard's original "teachings" and their further development?

I've just finished a German edition from 1986 and found it fascinating...

however, I ordered the original and will compare.

and what I'd be very much interested in are personal experiences with the techniques...I'm just trying to get as much and as diverse a "verification" as I can get as I would definitely like to try it...

[lightblue]

sorry to but in, let's see the opening post again


Dianetics

would anyone like to share their experiences concerning Hubbard's original "teachings" and their further development?
I've just finished a German edition from 1986 and found it fascinating...
however, I ordered the original and will compare.
and what I'd be very much interested in are personal experiences with the techniques...I'm just trying to get as much and as diverse a "verification" as I can get as I would definitely like to try it..


i know nothing about dianetics, i am not likely to be drawn into any religion and i don't see that this thread or peter wants to achive that...just because i know nothing of it, i thought it interesting to know a little something, but i may be too late already..

this is not about anything but trolling...a pretty clear cut case of trolling, i think...the mods are too kind and too busy at the same time to see the fine difefrences before they issue a warning - which in turn may upset some...it's a pity that as a result a thread usually gets killed for those interested.

similar was the case on 'freaking magic' thread where an overzelous troller kept insisting on maintaining his right on having a different opinion...he killed that otherwise super interesting thread for being off topic - consciously or unwittingly (as a result of being unmonitored)....very, very similar case as this one is...

stardaust made a point, if not interested in the subject, why not just move on..., by the way i realy like and read stardust's posts on many other threads...


best wishes l :yes4:

[justpeter]

...........stardaust made a point, if not interested in the subject, why not just move on...,

Thanks for that. Interesting. However, your point about stardust doesn't seem to make sense. Why didn't she move on instead of coming here to trash scientology?

BTW. Several people now have contacted me to say her behaviour isn't typical of the teachings of the person she/they follow therefore I accept that what occurred here isn't a result of teachings from that person.

[lightblue]

Thanks for that. Interesting. However, your point about stardust doesn't seem to make sense. Why didn't she move on instead of coming here to trash scientology?

i think it's because there's a very fine line between being enthusiastic and being zealous - which gets easily overlooked...if we are (over)enthusiastic about what we believe in, often thrashing other teachings gives us more self-confirmation, i suppose...in my experience, this is almost always a sign of insecurity...

best wishes l :yu:

[stardustaquarion]

Thanks for that. Interesting. However, your point about stardust doesn't seem to make sense. Why didn't she move on instead of coming here to trash scientology?

BTW. Several people now have contacted me to say her behaviour isn't typical of the teachings of the person she/they follow therefore I accept that what occurred here isn't a result of teachings from that person.

Dear Peter


I do not follow anyone ok only my own little self, let it rest. Why do I answer because you are speaking nonsense about me and you should keep it to the information posted previously and not me. Why don't you answer my queries about scientology rather than trying to make me look bad so other people think that what I write is wrong. You are harrasing me, not the other way around.

Please stick to the subjec t:focus::focus:

[kinsuemei2]

which Buddha?
which LAW?

Buddha - Dhammapada from Shambhala Press, 1976 great stuff the wisdom in those bits are very good, it covers anger, impurity, and the mind lot's of real information that can be applied, and "knowing is not enough, you must apply" Bruce lee

here to show you what I mean I will give you the PDF version

http://www.thebigview.com/download/dhammapada.pdf

Ben

[blue777]

Originally Posted by samvado View Post
which Buddha?
which LAW?

I wouldn't bother Ben......it is like talking to a pile of stones.....you cannot compete against arrogance , ignorance and conceit.....what law the law of humility, love and compassion........

[Anonymous]

Dianetics is our future

Dianetics: a set of ideas and practices regarding the metaphysical relationship between the mind and body that were invented by the science fiction author L. Ron Hubbard and are practiced by followers of Scientology. Hubbard coined Dianetics from the Greek stems dia, meaning through, and nous, meaning mind. :thumb:

Note it does NOT say Church of Scientology. Rons ideas are fabulous however in the hands of the common man it is too dangerous according to the PTB. So the real deal was substituted for the sham that is called the Church of Scientology. Of course it is a "legit" religion, as a corporate cult they coerced/ paid off many people in high places to get that position. No taxes and a huge income.

Here is a snippet of Dane Tops Camelot interview:


Now the trouble with Ron Hubbard was he discovered this greatest secret within the realm of his studies and he discovered techniques to develop enhanced abilities so that he, with his techniques, was producing people who could go out of their body, go in another room, look at anything they wanted, and report accurately what was there. He was producing people who could travel wherever they wanted in the universe and report back on what they’d seen, heat up an object – like they made Ingo do when he went up to Stanford [laughs] – paranormal and psychic... more than psychic... godlike abilities to manifest, appear, disappear and KNOW things.

Ingo tells the story of how they gave him a job of going to the moon. He called it remote viewing, but I assure you, Ingo WENT to the moon! And that’s how the government found out that there were ETs on the moon. And very aware ETs, because Ingo quickly found out that the ETs who were on the moon were able to sense that he was there, even though he went there out of body.

These abilities were why the governments wanted to hire him, learn from him, and develop means to train others to do the same. So Hubbard’s methods could enhance our native natural abilities and could be used for spying operations and war. But as I said, the governments were dealing with ETs and they didn’t tell Hubbard that. The Scientologists were recovering memories of our past, loaded with all kinds of space scenes - Hubbard called it “space opera”. Star Wars and Star Trek were really popular with Scientologists as it was very real to us as our own past.

We didn’t know there was contact in our own present-day, however, and that our governments were going nuts trying to find a way to make our technology AND our mental abilities catch up with the ETs. Developing telepathy was an important part of it all and Hubbard’s materials offered great hope for the development of all these skills and more. And that’s also why the governments wanted his research.

So, enhanced psychic abilities were being produced in Scientology and Hubbard was busy describing the fact that we have such abilities innately, and have been manipulated out of using them by mind control. Russia stole his research and used it to start their psychic development programs on their children.

We did that too, but they were ahead of us, because the Russian psychic programs took Hubbard more seriously. Hubbard casually mentioned the theft of his research materials during a lecture once.

But when Hubbard refused to play along, he became a target TO be feared by the government. They didn’t the public to recover these enhanced abilities, only those children the put into the programs. In addition, they began to recover technology from the ETs about how to control the minds and bodies of mankind.

Their choices about how to utilize all this new knowledge were poor as they were too uninformed about our history in the universe. That’s were Hubbard could have been of far more use to them. So, he became a target to be feared. The governments didn’t want an army of Scientologists capable of knowing what was going on for real.

So, Hubbard went on the run and ended up getting a fleet of ships and escaping governments which were trying to stop Hubbard. He thought he was targeted because he was using his organization to spy on the IRS and the psychiatrists and exposing their crimes. Hubbard didn’t fully know the depth of why he was such a target.

They wanted to use his material to develop abilities like the ETs had - but the governments did not want the general public to get those abilities! And the movement was exploding like wildfire with centers springing up world-wide to teach what Hubbard had learned and use his techniques. So Hubbard lived on the ocean on a constant escape route, trying to get away, directing research programs, developing the techniques, and producing people who restored the innate abilities they have as infinite spirits.

And his purpose was... well, he said that mankind was going to be destroyed soon if there wasn’t a massive change in human consciousness, and he was trying to produce that change using these techniques before it was too late. His goal was to wake us up from our amnesia.

Now, the Church of Scientology was destroyed from within by the US secret government. I’m certain of this. And it was done by the use of children.

As time passed through the 70s, there were so many things about Hubbard that indicated that he was tampered with that indicate that either he was being cloned or he had extraordinary but deteriorating abilities, or a combination of both.

For instance, there are reports of the different kinds of bodies that he had, different wardrobes, fully different size wardrobes. And on the ship, there were reports of somebody being downstairs being taught in a room by him and upstairs, he’s also upstairs working. And that sometimes he was one height and size and the next day he was a different size.
http://projectcamelot.org/lang/en/dane_tops_en.html


It is a deadly Cult with corporate powers. not a religion by any means.

Now for your viewing pleasure,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCbKv9yiLiQ


http://www.whyweprotest.org/en/

http://www.lisamcpherson.org/lisa.gif (http://www.lisamcpherson.org/)
Lisa died needlessly at the hands of Scientology.

[K626]

The original Ron was a very clever guy and certainly a radical.

K

[Ross]

Ok all, this thread is causing some greif amongst some...Morguana has tried to quell the indifference and hoped some would sit back, reflect and chill. Justpeter, you have said in above post that if we allow religeous intolerence then you will 'quote' If the mods don't step in then everyone on this forum is going to have to decide if they are for or against religious intolerance. Ignoring it will not be an option. This is going forum-wide very soon if no action is taken here and suspending me would be a decision by the mods that the forum is in favour of religious discrimination, which would, in my opinion, not be a sane decision. 'unquote'

Stardust has said 'I do not believe in any of the dianetics BS'... this is all I can kind find that may reflect to some, 'religeous intolerence' However, dianetics is not a religeon, TCOS is the religeon.
Justpeter, you have used words such as 'bigot' 'vile' towards stardust, this is name calling and offensive as per the guidelines and is not in the spirit of AV2. Also I would like to add that the 'guts' of Dianetics is to release one from their 're-active mind' which i see here is exactly what is causing the greif....reactivness. So much for the teachings from where Im sitting.

As the mods have been asked to step in and sort this, as some here cannot 'self mod' this thread, then we will have very little option other than to implement some kind of action if you can't play nice. I ask all here to keep this 'on topic' and stop this indifference between members.

Both Justpeter and Stardust contibute valued info here on AV2 and are part of this community. I would like to suggest you both reflect on your passionate views and keep the reactiveness in check.

Peace....

Ross.

[pilotsimone]

ps I'd also like to know how to set up "ignore" on this forum if it is possible...

Click on the person's username - View Profile - Add to Ignore List

Don't forget you can also rate any particular post made by a person. In each post there is a Star of David looking Icon in the lower left corner. If you click you can choose "I approve" or "I disapprove". A rating of sorts for those posts that you find entirely awesome and those you find completely troll-ish.'s po

*Edited to add that it's possible I might misunderstand this ratings system. It might rate the poster rather than the post. Hopefully, a Mod can clarify.

[Celine]

Though i may understand your frustration justpeter ...

I am sure you are also aware this is a very touchy subject.

The Scientology Organization has its ears and eyes wide open.

but not it's heart,

Ron's techniques are absolutely valid.

Many here will NEVER allow those truths to be so vilely abused and used without screaming at the top of their lungs, fighting till their last breath. These truths do not "belong" Ron Hubbard...they existed long before he came along..and will exist long after the church of scientology is burned to the ground..

We may disagree with each other, but we are ALL here for the same reason.

Protect Humanity. In whatever form we can.

Perhaps a discussion on the techniques used would be better approached in another way..

So many here have read/learned about dianetics...

How many apply it?

And just how do you apply it in your life?

Be well and remember you are LOVE

[Grover Orange]

would anyone like to share their experiences concerning Hubbard's original "teachings" and their further development?

I've just finished a German edition from 1986 and found it fascinating...

however, I ordered the original and will compare.

and what I'd be very much interested in are personal experiences with the techniques...I'm just trying to get as much and as diverse a "verification" as I can get as I would definitely like to try it...


Pretty backdated post here, but here goes.

The basic story is to simply try out the techniques for yourself and see what you think. You'll need a friend though. There are simpler techniques to start with however, and I'd actually recommend them over dianetics. It's that simple, and this simplicity is in the spirit of the "original era of Hubbard" from 1948 to the early 1960s when it was a grass roots approach without an official and serious organization backing it all.

But you said it where you say "I would definitely like to try it." TRY being the key word. People rightfully down on the church, but the techniques are separate. You can find and try anything and everything as far as therapy and such goes here on earth, and I encourage all individuals to find the path that's right for them. So if one goes forth, gives it a try, without the prior decision that it is wrong where one is only "trying" it to prove it wrong, then one is clear to decide for themselves.

[Bill Ryan]

I was in Scientology for nearly 20 years. Became a highly-trained auditor and case supervisor. One of the most highly-trained people on the planet in Scientology admin. Got myself audited up through the "secret" OT levels. Got kicked-out eventually, as most free thinkers do.

Recommendations - the tech is great but as a general rule the earlier tech is less corrupted than later versions. And look for "freezone" if you want auditing or training. I've heard it's less harsh than the official organization. Hubbard said that in Scientology: "Only the tigers survive and even they have a hard time.". Well I survived almost 20 years in the official organization. Grrrrr.

Hi, Folks:

I never knew this thread was here!

As many of you know, I have received immense benefit from auditing (the application of Hubbard's techniques). I was never in the "Church" (of Scientology), and was fortunate to discover the "Free Zone" first.

Justpeter is 100% entirely correct. The techniques must be seen and evaluated in their own light, and have absolutely no connection with the organization that misuses and abuses them and has been ever since the late 70s when the Church was taken over.

The principle of the surgeon's knife applies: the techniques are simple but extraordinarily powerful, and can be used to greatly enhance abilities - or to totally destroy them. It depends on the intention and integrity of the practitioner and the organization behind him or her.

It's hard for those looking on to critique the techniques if they themselves have not experienced them: reading about them or thinking about them is not the same as experiencing their application in ethical, trained hands.

My own journey was with Ron's Org, the largest and most accessible of the various Free Zone [FZ] organizations. All these FZ groups - large and small - are aligned inasmuch as they seek to apply Hubbard's original techniques, and in some cases extensions and extrapolations of them, as separate from the controlling and dark institution that the Church of Scientology has become.

Most Free Zone groups keep a fairly low profile, and many critics of the 'Church' do not know about them. But this is where Hubbard's original work lives and breathes to a high degree of health.

All criticisms of the Church since about 1980 are justified. For an entertaining and surprisingly neutral (even positive) BBC radio documentary on Hubbard's life - containing a LOT of fascinating inside information - listen here:

http://projectavalon.net/Ruthless_Adventure_the_lives_of_L_Ron_Hubbard.mp3

Enjoy. :) -- it's very good.

Cheers, Bill

[Dale]

I've heard a great deal of praise about Dianetics and the "Free Zone," but not so much the actual Church of Scientology, from a couple guys I work with over in the psychology department. I'm interested in trying auditing out, but I have no idea where on earth to begin. Bill?

[Grover Orange]

I've heard a great deal of praise about Dianetics and the "Free Zone," but not so much the actual Church of Scientology, from a couple guys I work with over in the psychology department. I'm interested in trying auditing out, but I have no idea where on earth to begin. Bill?

Hi Cipher,

If I may chime in on this... I'm brand new to this list, just joined yesterday at the request of one of my Free Zoner friends. I am a Free Zoner and I deliver dianetics and scientology services in-person and by phone. Dianetics and scientology gave me a livable life again, and I would not have made it without them, so I choose to make a career of it. If you're interested, we could get on the phone and do an introductory session or 2. It's all pretty laid back and easy. Below is a journal of the first few days of session with a first time client I'm currently working with. My email is groverorange@gmail.com.

Jeff

Day 1
"As for our session today? My whole day has gone really nicely. I just feel like things are not bothering me as much. Much more kick back and easy going. Just feeling like 'stress' just doesn't do anything good for me, so why bother with it? lol. Really I feel really good. Can't wait for tomorrow! ;)” – Jeri Lynne, CA

Day 2
“My 2nd session with Jeff went really well again. But, the rest of my day the universe hit me with everything it could. The difference for me was the way I didn't react. I have always fought with myself about how quick I am to react, not taking time to let things sink in before I react. Today I was more calm and just took things more in stride.” – Jeri Lynne, CA

Day 3
“My 3rd session was very peaceful. I felt great again when we were done and feel so fortunate that I met Jeff and have him to share in this journey with me. I feel very comfortable and not at all judged for anything I say or embarrased for any emotions that may come up. My day went well, my evening was a little challanged. My daughter is having a rough time after losing her father to cancer. I want her to work with Jeff too.” – Jeri Lynne, CA

Day 4
“I had my 4th session and again it went great. I felt great after and had great day. I can't help but notice that my moods are so much more level. I just don't seem to be having these mood swings like I have had for as long as I can remember. I love what I am feeling and seeing. Can't wait for more!” – Jeri Lynne, CA

Day 5
“My session today was awesome. I have a lot of things weighing on me, like most right now, a lot on my plate! I often am consumed with this feeling of being overwhelmed and feeling tired and just feel like throwing the towel in. (before working with Jeff) Today, at the end of our session, I felt an almost euphoric sense of happiness I had long forgotten. I felt like I was getting back to my old self. Well not really old as in numbers, lol! I have felt "out of self" for many years and I welcome myself back with arms wide open. I ended the session with a HUGE smile on my face, and I can smile! And my heart is so much lighter and is smiling too! How many people's hearts do you see smiling? Wouldn't it be nice to be a world of smiling hearts? I would like that.” – Jeri Lynne, CA

Days 6 & 7
“The last two sessions I had with Jeff were very good. Its amazing that the way I described the way I felt (after a session) ‘like I was feeling my old self come back.’ I had not taken the time to read what other people had said, so when I finally had the chance to, I was so surprised to read how they described their feelings and the way they felt. We pretty much described the same thing and I didn't even know that might be a part of what I was going for. I completely trust Jeff and was just following directions.

My goal has been several things. To try and slow down, not to react so quickly to things, to remove so much anger I have somehow taken on. I use to be so happy, not negative, loved life, sure I wasn't always so gleeful but I use to be completely different, as many of lost friends have told me. In these times I have felt frustrated, angry, bitter, resentful, just sick (and I mean literally sick!) of all the stuff the universe has had to throw at me. It has been constant, for the last 15yrs and I have had enough. Just these few sessions with Jeff has helped me immensely. The biggest thing I HAVE noticed is the way I react now. Its pretty much, ‘oh, OK, now this is happening, now let me think what to do about it.’ All the while being really calm and I just don't put the energy into it (the worrying and fretting) like I use to.

I have had to take a couple of days off and I can't wait for my next session. Stuff has happened and I'm not happy about it, but I still don't throw myself under the train wreck if you know what I mean. I still have a lot of work to do, but I am so blessed to have found Jeff (and that was fate or what ever you want to call it). I feel like he truly cares about me and what happens to me and that in itself feels great. He is so calm (which I need!!!). You never feel like he is judging you. He really is here to help and assist us and if you don't take this opportunity to work with him, you may be sorry later. You may see him somewhere someday giving huge lectures and you will think, ‘wow, I had the chance to work with that guy and I passed it up.’ Well, for once I am not going to be that person. I am committed 110%+. We are all here learning, and Jeff in his own way too, probably learning something for himself in our sessions. Well, I could go on & on but I have to go, I have a session coming up in 15 minutes and I want to be ready! I am finally doing something for myself and I have Jeff to thank for helping me follow through on this wonderful journey. Thanks Jeff, I hope you know what this means to me. You just may have saved my life.” – Jeri Lynne, CA

[Celine]

Thank You Jeff for this perspective n Free Zones.

i have some questions...i know what the church of scientology thinks about medicating mental illness...

How do "free zoners" feel about it?

Do you charge for your services? if so what is the price for a basic treatment? do you have a website?

[Grover Orange]

Thank You Jeff for this perspective n Free Zones.

i have some questions...i know what the church of scientology thinks about medicating mental illness...

How do "free zoners" feel about it?

Do you charge for your services? if so what is the price for a basic treatment? do you have a website?


Hi Celine,

You will find different opinions in the free zone regarding medicating mental illness. The reason is that the free zone is not a unified group like the church. It's mostly made up of former church members that now practice independently and in small groups. So you have a collection of individuals with individual opinions.

As for my take, I allow people to be who they are. If they medicate, okay.

In my studies I've learned that if one is getting a scientology session, too much drugs can get in the way as they tend to reduce awareness. Just like if one came to session drunk or stoned or with a bad hangover. Same if the person came to session on 1 hour of sleep, or if they hadn't eaten in 5 days. We need the person "there and present." What we're getting into here are the things that can get in the way and reduce a person's awareness, which will inhibit spiritual gains from session.

BUT a fellow practitioner recently took a girl who has been taking mental meds for something like 20 years, sleeping 20 hours a day, and just enduring existence, and got her down to 7 hours sleep and now she's out looking for a job. I don't know if she's still on the meds but she came to session while taking them. This is quite a big statement on the whole mental drug thing.

I do charge for services as this is how I make my living, but not at first. I let one try out a few sessions and decide for themselves. My prices are very reasonable compared to the rest of the freezone, but I would rather discuss it privately (groverorange@gmail.com) than publically. Drop me a line, I'm not a salesman, I'm one who believes in what I do and is trying to make a better world.

Jeff

[Celine]

That is a very interesting response.. thank you.

i find it important , in healing..to look at things from the patients point of view and not a set of doctrine.

[MariaDine]

Hello , everybody ! :)

I'm from Portugal. for those who don't know where it is, it's a little country close to Spain, in Europe. Thans to your information, I discovered that we have in Lisbon, a Scientology church .... well, better late than never.... :)
I know the ficction works of Hubbard and what is Scientology (general information) and I have read the posts that are here in this thread.
I suppose. because of the language «barrier», I 'm not getting a clear view of what is going on ....
Please help....

Thank you for any in put

MD

[Celine]

i thought there was a translation team...?

[MariaDine]

Ehehehe ! Celine...I like your sense of humor ! :)

To tell you the truth, I all mixed up...Is it a good method or not ? Besides all the deceit - that's human nature .

[lightwalker]

Dianetics is OK but EFT is much easier, faster and better results...and you can learn it in an hour....and it is free

www.emofree.com

I was a "class IV" auditor, Dianetics Auditor and left after 8 years when all that stuff was going down in the 80's. The book is rather challenging to read and if you want to get into past life stuff get an old Self Analysis if you can find one.

[MariaDine]

Great :)
Thanks Lightwalker ! :) I'm going to read what is in this link . And after I will talk to you :)

Love
MD

[cloud9]

lihtwalker,
can you please elaborate why doyou think EFT is better? I've tryied several times before with no resuls whatsoever. I want to quit smoking and I haven't been able to do it despite trying with different techniques.
I've done many EFT exercises but it doesn't work for me.