UFO filmed hovering above hospital in Bolivia

[D-Day]

Currently making news in Bolivia is a UFO event reported to have taken place in the last few days in La Paz, the capital city.
A large disc shaped UFO was seen by at least two witnesses as it hovered briefly above a hospital (see footage below). One of the witnesses managed to film the object with his mobile phone camera.
The two witnesses subsequently appeared on the television show 'Todo Pulmon' and affirmed that the event was genuine. Local builder, Juan Carlos, noted that he "had never seen anything like it in his entire life".
The witnesses also contacted renowned Mexican UFO expert, Jaime Maussan, who examined the footage and concluded that it was genuine.

http://www.allnewsweb.com/page1199999491.php

[ascendingstarseed]

Are you serious? Video's of such poor quality are obvious hoax's only serve to discredit the forum, please use better judgment when posting. Whoever said that was genuine needs their head examined...or new glasses.

[Olam]

Hoax....
Inertia as far as I know does not apply to ufo's.....man made or not.
You see the effects of inertia when it takes off.....

[D-Day]

Sorry if this post wasn't up to standard guys, I personally thought it was worth sharing... guess I was wrong :confused:

Olam,

Thanks for your useful input about the effects of inertia on UFO's, I'll be sure to take note of that when reviewing UFO vids in future :nod:

Cheers
Dan

[MariaDine]

Thank you, for the video ! I enjoyed listening to the interview (Spanish). The information was clear. The man saw and almost went crazy with what he saw. The friend convinced him to show the recording , which he gave away for free, to be analised by all the experts.
Namasté

[One]

Are you serious? Video's of such poor quality are obvious hoax's only serve to discredit the forum, please use better judgment when posting. Whoever said that was genuine needs their head examined...or new glasses.

Love the logic here. Anything filmed on a low res mobile phone camera (the type of thing people are likely to have on them) is fake? With people making this kind of statement we won't be needing any films to discredit the forum.

Thanks for the film D-Day.

[One]

Hoax....
Inertia as far as I know does not apply to ufo's.....man made or not.
You see the effects of inertia when it takes off.....

What effects of inertia? Are you saying that all UFOs have to contradict the laws of physics to be genuine or have I missed something here? Are you talking about the non linear acceleration?

[bilko]

For me i think there are 3 things that lend to this situation being plausible.

1/ The craft seems to be suspended originally because of its unstable nature. Then i realized the craft was in distress.

2/ I think the craft might be piloted by human or humanoid as it is over a hospital ( while in distress ) maybe retrieving something.

3/ Instead of making its exit straight to the left it comes forward and exits in an arc which again to me suggests it might be piloted by a humanoid in distress.

Further than that i cannot say whether it is a an alien craft or not but it is definitely a UFO.

Thankyou for posting it D-Day and don't you dare bow to the naysayers my friend, you are doing your bit. Well done!

[bilko]

Are you serious? Video's of such poor quality are obvious hoax's only serve to discredit the forum, please use better judgment when posting. Whoever said that was genuine needs their head examined...or new glasses.

Infact, disregard this post.
Whoa!
You nearly got me there.
I let my anger at your statement get the better of me but had the presence of mind to not post it. lol. Got to watch that.
I'm only writing this so as to not give the mods work in deleting things for me.

[haibane]

D-DAY, I have to admit I didn't find the video too convincing, nevertheless please don't let comments about standards and judgement — although I would advocate for the later myself (^__~ ) — to bother you too much, unless they come from moderators.
Also, I wouldn't be too bothered by the kind of device the video was taken with, at least it's well documented in the show. After all if I see a UFO one day and only have my crappy camera phone on me, should I just think like 'Oh, why bother shooting it, I don't have my 3CCD profi gear with me today' ...
Just sayin'.
Peace : )

[cloud9]

It seems nobody has paid attention to something coming out of the top of the building immediately after the UFO disappears, in the video when they talk to Jaime Maussan they slow the video down and what it's seen there is a bird. Before that I really thought it was the same UFO reappearing behind the building.

Mausan never said the video was genuine, quite the contrary he said several times that it was necessary to study the video and to gather the mega data from the cell phone, he asked several questions and apologized in advance with the guy who took the video saying that 15 years ago he would have accepted something like this as genuine but not anymore because it was easier than ever for people to fake something like this. So he's going to study it and give results later on.

[GK76]

At least it was funny. :biggrin:

If it was a mobile phone camera, why didn't it move in the direction of the trajectory? (a perfectly natural reaction) Answer: because you would have seen the guy hanging the plastic toy out of the window.

The fact it swings in the wind is also a tell-tale sign. Then it 'takes off' dipping slightly before the lift as if someone had it on the end of piece of string suspended from a pole.

Even the old B movies had better effects, only this time the camera was so low res that the string was impossible to pick up.

Thanks for the chuckles. :)

[Olam]

Hoax....
Inertia as far as I know does not apply to ufo's.....man made or not.
You see the effects of inertia when it takes off.....

What effects of inertia? Are you saying that all UFOs have to contradict the laws of physics to be genuine or have I missed something here? Are you talking about the non linear acceleration?

Im talking about the wobble it has when taking off. That would be an inertia/gravity effect that as far as I know does not affect antigravity devices. There is more on that in the Paul Laviolette book about antigravity secrets.

[One]

At least it was funny. :biggrin:

If it was a mobile phone camera, why didn't it move in the direction of the trajectory? (a perfectly natural reaction) Answer: because you would have seen the guy hanging the plastic toy out of the window.

The fact it swings in the wind is also a tell-tale sign. Then it 'takes off' dipping slightly before the lift as if someone had it on the end of piece of string suspended from a pole.

Even the old B movies had better effects, only this time the camera was so low res that the string was impossible to pick up.

Thanks for the chuckles. :)

You guy(s) really are amateur debunkers. It flew off far to quickly to follow properly with a camera. The guy is likely to be a bit surprised as well don't you think? He kind of made an attempt to follow it.

I don't need to study the film very hard to understand that birds can't fly that fast either. Just another hook to hang some more debunking on later. What is the likelihood of a UFO and a supersonic bird being in the same film?

The patronisation was a nice touch? Oh yes of course it must be fake there are a lot of people in the know laughing about it. How tediously predictable.

No, thank you for allowing me point out your flawed logic your so proud of :)

[Chicodoodoo]

What I find fascinating is the human drive to pronounce such videos as fake or genuine on such short notice, and the fact that we are so divided on the issue. Do we have disinfo agents playing a role here? Could they be active on both sides? That disinfo agents are increasingly prevalent is another fascinating issue.

Humans -- gotta love 'em!

[GK76]

At least it was funny. :biggrin:

If it was a mobile phone camera, why didn't it move in the direction of the trajectory? (a perfectly natural reaction) Answer: because you would have seen the guy hanging the plastic toy out of the window.

The fact it swings in the wind is also a tell-tale sign. Then it 'takes off' dipping slightly before the lift as if someone had it on the end of piece of string suspended from a pole.

Even the old B movies had better effects, only this time the camera was so low res that the string was impossible to pick up.

Thanks for the chuckles. :)

You guy(s) really are amateur debunkers. It flew off far to quickly to follow properly with a camera. The guy is likely to be a bit surprised as well don't you think? He kind of made an attempt to follow it.

I don't need to study the film very hard to understand that birds can't fly that fast either. Just another hook to hang some more debunking on later. What is the likelihood of a UFO and a supersonic bird being in the same film?

The patronisation was a nice touch? Oh yes of course it must be fake there are a lot of people in the know laughing about it. How tediously predictable.

No, thank you for allowing me point out your flawed logic your so proud of :)

I didn't patronise, just simply laughed along with the joke.

I didn't mention a bird BTW, it is clearly NOT a bird. It seems to be a solid shape in close proximity. I simply won't waste time on such a laughable attempt at deception.

Your attack on me is nothing more than fallacy. For future reference I'm not a debunker, I just don't swallow crap when it's served up to me. Don't get so touchy over such a trivial matter.

[One]

Hoax....
Inertia as far as I know does not apply to ufo's.....man made or not.
You see the effects of inertia when it takes off.....

What effects of inertia? Are you saying that all UFOs have to contradict the laws of physics to be genuine or have I missed something here? Are you talking about the non linear acceleration?

Im talking about the wobble it has when taking off. That would be an inertia/gravity effect that as far as I know does not affect antigravity devices. There is more on that in the Paul Laviolette book about antigravity secrets.

Well this is a different approach to proving its a fake. Funnily enough I haven't read the book and so I have much less knowledge on the subject and much less credibility than yourself. However, I would still say (not reading the quoted book) that a wobble probably doesn't prove the film is a fake. If there are such things as UFOs then it is quite likely there will be one or two of them around in the galaxy. Millions? Billions? perhaps? The odds are that one or two of them wobble due to the design or perhaps an imperfection? Maybe they have a dodgy modulator or such like (which I made up). Maybe the gravity is a bit wavey and has to be "surfed"?

[Olam]

Hoax....
Inertia as far as I know does not apply to ufo's.....man made or not.
You see the effects of inertia when it takes off.....

What effects of inertia? Are you saying that all UFOs have to contradict the laws of physics to be genuine or have I missed something here? Are you talking about the non linear acceleration?

Im talking about the wobble it has when taking off. That would be an inertia/gravity effect that as far as I know does not affect antigravity devices. There is more on that in the Paul Laviolette book about antigravity secrets.

Well this is a different approach to proving its a fake. Funnily enough I haven't read the book and so I have much less knowledge on the subject and much less credibility than yourself. However, I would still say (not reading the quoted book) that a wobble probably doesn't prove the film is a fake. If there are such things as UFOs then it is quite likely there will be one or two of them around in the galaxy. Millions? Billions? perhaps? The odds are that one or two of them wobble due to the design or perhaps an imperfection? Maybe they have a dodgy modulator or such like (which I made up). Maybe the gravity is a bit wavey and has to be "surfed"?

Well Im no expert but i have seen alot of videos and my intuition say what I mentioned. I would never say Im sure 100%, its just my opinion based on what I know and feel. No one should beleive 100% what anyone says!
Thanks for your considerate reply....

[Ahkenaten]

What I find fascinating is the human drive to pronounce such videos as fake or genuine on such short notice, and the fact that we are so divided on the issue. Do we have disinfo agents playing a role here? Could they be active on both sides? That disinfo agents are increasingly prevalent is another fascinating issue.

Humans -- gotta love 'em!

Yup. Just another example of the sociopaths at work in here - and also the absolute reliability of the Hegelian dialectic as a method to confound, confuse, and get them pitted against one another so hopefully everyone will fail to notice who is busy pulling the strings of the puppet show

[Arrowwind]

I think that we should not forget that there are many different types of ships out there... some of alien origin and others of worldly. Many Alien ships have a qualtiy and energetic feel that earthly ships do not have.
This does not look like an alien ship to me..just my opinion... but one worth consideirng since I have seen a number of ships that I am sure were alien.... again just my opinion

[GK76]

What I find fascinating is the human drive to pronounce such videos as fake or genuine on such short notice, and the fact that we are so divided on the issue. Do we have disinfo agents playing a role here? Could they be active on both sides? That disinfo agents are increasingly prevalent is another fascinating issue.

Humans -- gotta love 'em!

Yup. Just another example of the sociopaths at work in here - and also the absolute reliability of the Hegelian dialectic as a method to confound, confuse, and get them pitted against one another so hopefully everyone will fail to notice who is busy pulling the strings of the puppet show

I really must ask: because some of us don't believe THIS to be true (regardless of time deliberated), does that mean we have mental issues, or we're part of a sinister scheme to discredit the truth?

Please explain your ad hominem more clearly.

...By the way as a warning of your word usage - it's the fallacies like the 'ad hominem' which is the tool of the disinfo agent. You have provided a perfect example and use of said tool.

[Chicodoodoo]

I really must ask: because some of us don't believe THIS to be true (regardless of time deliberated), does that mean we have mental issues, or we're part of a sinister scheme to discredit the truth?

Please explain your ad hominem more clearly.

...By the way as a warning of your word usage - it's the fallacies like the 'ad hominem' which is the tool of the disinfo agent. You have provided a perfect example and use of said tool.

Can you explain what you are referring to by "THIS"? I'm also not clear on your "ad hominem" reference or your conclusion that "this is a perfect example and use of said tool." Sorry, but you lost me on all this.

[One]

Hoax....
Inertia as far as I know does not apply to ufo's.....man made or not.
You see the effects of inertia when it takes off.....

What effects of inertia? Are you saying that all UFOs have to contradict the laws of physics to be genuine or have I missed something here? Are you talking about the non linear acceleration?

Im talking about the wobble it has when taking off. That would be an inertia/gravity effect that as far as I know does not affect antigravity devices. There is more on that in the Paul Laviolette book about antigravity secrets.

Well this is a different approach to proving its a fake. Funnily enough I haven't read the book and so I have much less knowledge on the subject and much less credibility than yourself. However, I would still say (not reading the quoted book) that a wobble probably doesn't prove the film is a fake. If there are such things as UFOs then it is quite likely there will be one or two of them around in the galaxy. Millions? Billions? perhaps? The odds are that one or two of them wobble due to the design or perhaps an imperfection? Maybe they have a dodgy modulator or such like (which I made up). Maybe the gravity is a bit wavey and has to be "surfed"?

Well Im no expert but i have seen alot of videos and my intuition say what I mentioned. I would never say Im sure 100%, its just my opinion based on what I know and feel. No one should beleive 100% what anyone says!
Thanks for your considerate reply....

No worries that is fair enough. I respect that fact that you put across your point of view without patronising anybody :thumb:

[Lord Sidious]

By all means, disagree on things, but keep the snide remarks off of this forum.
And learn to post with respect to other posters.
We don't appreciate smart alecs here.
Thanks

[GK76]

I really must ask: because some of us don't believe THIS to be true (regardless of time deliberated), does that mean we have mental issues, or we're part of a sinister scheme to discredit the truth?

Please explain your ad hominem more clearly.

...By the way as a warning of your word usage - it's the fallacies like the 'ad hominem' which is the tool of the disinfo agent. You have provided a perfect example and use of said tool.

Can you explain what you are referring to by "THIS"? I'm also not clear on your "ad hominem" reference or your conclusion that "this is a perfect example and use of said tool." Sorry, but you lost me on all this.

THIS = the subject, the object of discussion. As for the ad hominem it is easy to find and understand... Sorry I've clearly over estimated your knowledge then (about the wording and direction of a 'slight' I picked up), although the nature of your post may have suggested otherwise. My curiosity is satisfied, no harm done, just misadventure. :)

Just to explain... at no point have my posts been snide (they are merely words after all), my personal opinion of the video is that it seems rather comical, certain aspects seem to 'not fit'. If my reaction seems snide then I apologise and regret any negativity caused.

[One]

At least it was funny. :biggrin:

If it was a mobile phone camera, why didn't it move in the direction of the trajectory? (a perfectly natural reaction) Answer: because you would have seen the guy hanging the plastic toy out of the window.

The fact it swings in the wind is also a tell-tale sign. Then it 'takes off' dipping slightly before the lift as if someone had it on the end of piece of string suspended from a pole.

Even the old B movies had better effects, only this time the camera was so low res that the string was impossible to pick up.

Thanks for the chuckles. :)

You guy(s) really are amateur debunkers. It flew off far to quickly to follow properly with a camera. The guy is likely to be a bit surprised as well don't you think? He kind of made an attempt to follow it.

I don't need to study the film very hard to understand that birds can't fly that fast either. Just another hook to hang some more debunking on later. What is the likelihood of a UFO and a supersonic bird being in the same film?

The patronisation was a nice touch? Oh yes of course it must be fake there are a lot of people in the know laughing about it. How tediously predictable.

No, thank you for allowing me point out your flawed logic your so proud of :)

I didn't patronise, just simply laughed along with the joke.

I didn't mention a bird BTW, it is clearly NOT a bird. It seems to be a solid shape in close proximity. I simply won't waste time on such a laughable attempt at deception.

Your attack on me is nothing more than fallacy. For future reference I'm not a debunker, I just don't swallow crap when it's served up to me. Don't get so touchy over such a trivial matter.

Sorry I didn't see a joke?

No Cloud9 mentioned the bird above your post. I am assuming the bird is a reference to the object speeding off in the other direction after it moved out of camera shot.

Well I suppose it all depends on your definition of debunker really. A debunker could be a paid agent who discredits information. It could also be somebody can not view something objectively because of a bias. To say with a 100% certainity that the video is rubbish on those grounds shows bias in my opinion.

I do however understand the resentment at being fed crap. We are force fed the stuff everyday of our lives it seems.

Perhaps I was being a bit touchy and I apologise for that (Olam also). I probably would have toned it down a bit if I hadn't been rushed to finish the post (cooker was on).

I can't agree that there is enough evidence (yet) to suggest the film is a fake though. Just because the objects reacts like it was pulled by a string doesn't mean it was. It could have been though of course. Its just not a given imho.

[mojo]

I witnessed the wobbly movement that is seen in the video, as if the craft was trying to find a balance in the magnetic currents. They have never taken off fast like that for me to see the inertia that is displayed. I'm not sure this one is fake, but it's sad to hoax when the reality of ET is wonderful enough. Thank you for sharing the video.

[GK76]

At least it was funny. :biggrin:

If it was a mobile phone camera, why didn't it move in the direction of the trajectory? (a perfectly natural reaction) Answer: because you would have seen the guy hanging the plastic toy out of the window.

The fact it swings in the wind is also a tell-tale sign. Then it 'takes off' dipping slightly before the lift as if someone had it on the end of piece of string suspended from a pole.

Even the old B movies had better effects, only this time the camera was so low res that the string was impossible to pick up.

Thanks for the chuckles. :)

You guy(s) really are amateur debunkers. It flew off far to quickly to follow properly with a camera. The guy is likely to be a bit surprised as well don't you think? He kind of made an attempt to follow it.

I don't need to study the film very hard to understand that birds can't fly that fast either. Just another hook to hang some more debunking on later. What is the likelihood of a UFO and a supersonic bird being in the same film?

The patronisation was a nice touch? Oh yes of course it must be fake there are a lot of people in the know laughing about it. How tediously predictable.

No, thank you for allowing me point out your flawed logic your so proud of :)

I didn't patronise, just simply laughed along with the joke.

I didn't mention a bird BTW, it is clearly NOT a bird. It seems to be a solid shape in close proximity. I simply won't waste time on such a laughable attempt at deception.

Your attack on me is nothing more than fallacy. For future reference I'm not a debunker, I just don't swallow crap when it's served up to me. Don't get so touchy over such a trivial matter.

Sorry I didn't see a joke?

No Cloud9 mentioned the bird above your post. I am assuming the bird is a reference to the object speeding off in the other direction after it moved out of camera shot.

Well I suppose it all depends on your definition of debunker really. A debunker could be a paid agent who discredits information. It could also be somebody can not view something objectively because of a bias. To say with a 100% certainity that the video is rubbish on those grounds shows bias in my opinion.

I do however understand the resentment at being fed crap. We are force fed the stuff everyday of our lives it seems.

Perhaps I was being a bit touchy and I apologise for that. I probably would have toned it down a bit if I hadn't been rushed to finish the post (cooker was on).

I can't agree that there is enough evidence (yet) to suggest the film is a fake though. Just because the objects reacts like it was pulled by a string doesn't mean it was. It could have been though of course. Its just not a given imho.

As I said, I'm not a debunker, at no time have I ever claimed to be (certainly not paid either ;) ). I take an instant dislike to labels being placed upon me or my words, but not to worry you meant no harm.

My opinion is simply that my first impressions cry foul on many levels, a feeling, my physical senses, the intellectual evidence at hand, the ease at which fakery is possible and given creedence, and many more. Sadly I've seen many of these alleged UFO (with obvious ET/Black Ops assumption which clings to many UFO claims) claims come to naught, lets face it - you're not likely to get an advanced race or a covert ops group just fly a craft around, out for a joy ride because they are bored - it's just not in their best interests given their nature up until now. Ask yourself why would any supposedly intelligent being do such a thing?... surely it's more likely (by a long way) for it to be a prank (being a hospital, it's not unknown for medical students to get creative).

As for the bird suggestion... you'd be surprised at the speed birds can get to, after all the fastest creature on the planet is a bird. It's not so easy to rule that out, occam's razor and all that stuff.

In a similar end to yours... yup I regret the tone of my post... I does look to just throw a spanner in the works of a decent discussion, not intended but for which I apologise. :)

[AlkaMyst]

D-DAY

First of all, thank you for this video, I certainly appreciate it and for those that say the video is fake then that's obviously cause for one you don't speak any Spanish whatsoever and two, if you would have watched the whole thing then maybe you would have seen the actual phone and the original video that was taken at the time. Stop with all the ignorance, it seems that people here just want others to do their research for them and once you go ahead and show something valuable it has to be discredited.

Please Read this again very carefully!!!

By all means, disagree on things, but keep the snide remarks off of this forum.
And learn to post with respect to other posters.
We don't appreciate smart alecs here.
Thanks

Thanks Lord Sidious, very well said!!!

Blessings,
AlkaMyst

[Dennis Leahy]

I'm going to offer my opinion. Only my opinion, my gut, my reaction. Not trying to hurt anyone's feelings, and I'm happy it got posted - I'm hoping to see some footage sometime that is clear proof of ships with technology that appears to be beyond Earth technology (although I have an open mind that we "shot" one down and reverse engineered it - so we quite possibly have home-grown technology the mimics ET technology.)

This appears to me to be a toy, on a string. Like maybe dangled on a line of a fishing pole, then yanked hard to the right and up. Possibly then whipped back toward the horizon.

It is possible the man who filmed it believes he saw a UFO, but I suspect there was someone on the roof of the (corrugated metal?) building that reeled it in, then ducked.

Dennis

[Chicodoodoo]

THIS = the subject, the object of discussion. As for the ad hominem it is easy to find and understand... Sorry I've clearly over estimated your knowledge then (about the wording and direction of a 'slight' I picked up), although the nature of your post may have suggested otherwise.

Sorry, I couldn't tell which subject you were referring to that you didn't believe (and I still can't tell). I'm familiar with the term "ad hominem" but couldn't see how it applied. I understood Ahkenaten's comment, but yours was devoid of meaning to me. Such a complete breakdown in communications is rare in my experience, so I was naturally curious to find out what happened. Your latest response still leaves me puzzled. No harm done though, and thanks for trying to help clear things up.

[One]

As I said, I'm not a debunker, at no time have I ever claimed to be (certainly not paid either ;) ). I take an instant dislike to labels being placed upon me or my words, but not to worry you meant no harm.

My opinion is simply that my first impressions cry foul on many levels, a feeling, my physical senses, the intellectual evidence at hand, the ease at which fakery is possible and given creedence, and many more. Sadly I've seen many of these alleged UFO (with obvious ET/Black Ops assumption which clings to many UFO claims) claims come to naught, lets face it - you're not likely to get an advanced race or a covert ops group just fly a craft around, out for a joy ride because they are bored - it's just not in their best interests given their nature up until now. Ask yourself why would any supposedly intelligent being do such a thing?... surely it's more likely (by a long way) for it to be a prank (being a hospital, it's not unknown for medical students to get creative).

As for the bird suggestion... you'd be surprised at the speed birds can get to, after all the fastest creature on the planet is a bird. It's not so easy to rule that out, occam's razor and all that stuff.

In a similar end to yours... yup I regret the tone of my post... I does look to just throw a spanner in the works of a decent discussion, not intended but for which I apologise. :)

No worries I understand. Thanks GK97 :thumb:

I agree that it could be disinfo or a hoax. Yes, perhaps it is an unlikely scenario for an advanced group of beings. However, I feel you are basing your judgement on feelings about previous cases (that are sometimes debunked) rather than what is in the film. I don't think we can assume we know the travelling habbits of saucer ocupants unfortunately. They might have a sense of humour and enjoy freaking the odd person out :)

Back to the debate though:

I personally rule out the medical student with a model on a string because of the following reasons:
1. You need a very long piece of string (and an impressive flick of the wrist) to flip the model around the back of the building across the road.
2. If we are saying the flying object behind the building was a bird (rather than the ufo flying off) then we have a massive coincedence on our hands. I suppose a faker could have taken advantage of a fast bird and superimposed something on top. However, I find this scenario unlikely because of the birds speed. It was only caught in one or two camera frames it was going so quick.
3. (Edit) Oh yes there is the problem of the 2 films as well (which I indeed didn't know about because I don't speak Spanish). Thanks AlkaMyst.

I note Mojo's point as well (although I am straying away from the film). My understanding was that UFOs were often described as having a "falling leaf" motion when decending. I know I have heard this description used before. I am hoping its not because all of them were on the end of a string :)

[str8thinker]

I can't believe it! No one yet commented that this came from allnewsweb.com, a known disinfo site?
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?14724

Any report originating from allnewsweb should be treated as suspect.

BeforeItsNews also thinks it's a fake.
http://beforeitsnews.com/story/434/584/Watch_Fake_UFO_Over_Hospital_in_Bolivia.html

[The One]

Sorry if this post wasn't up to standard guys, I personally thought it was worth sharing... guess I was wrong


Hey D-DAY do not apologise for your thread. I would rather you share this than not. I sometimes repeat posts but my saying is old news is good news.

A lot of stuff on here are hoaxes but keep doing what your doing my avalon friend.

[New Dawn]

Sorry if this post wasn't up to standard guys, I personally thought it was worth sharing... guess I was wrong :confused:

Olam,

Thanks for your useful input about the effects of inertia on UFO's, I'll be sure to take note of that when reviewing UFO vids in future :nod:

Cheers
Dan

Thanks for the post. Don't be afraid to post anything that YOU think is worth sharing. I for one certainly appreciated this one, and who knows, it could be real.

[One]

I can't believe it! No one yet commented that this came from allnewsweb.com, a known disinfo site?
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?14724

Any report originating from allnewsweb should be treated as suspect.

BeforeItsNews also thinks it's a fake.
http://beforeitsnews.com/story/434/584/Watch_Fake_UFO_Over_Hospital_in_Bolivia.html
Yes I was thinking the url rang a bell. I am happy to trust Bill's judgement on that at the moment as I don't have the time. I would think a disinfo site would need to mix a reasonable amount of valid stuff with rubbish to enable it to send people off track.

The linked site just quotes a youtuber with the same same points made my GK (which I don't think PROVE its a fake). I was expecting much better than that with a big "FAKE" in the headline. Just conjecture again rather any real evidence it seems.

[GK76]

I can't believe it! No one yet commented that this came from allnewsweb.com, a known disinfo site?
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?14724

Any report originating from allnewsweb should be treated as suspect.

BeforeItsNews also thinks it's a fake.
http://beforeitsnews.com/story/434/584/Watch_Fake_UFO_Over_Hospital_in_Bolivia.html

The reaction posted in your link is exactly what struck me when I first saw it. It seems that many people approach cases like these as 'it's real until proven fake', I'll leave it at that. Personally I'm still miffed at this whole fiasco and the reactions (understatement).

Time to move on though... never was it my intention to cause upset with my initial reaction, but it was said for a reason. This topic is taken far too seriously IMHO.

[GK76]

I can't believe it! No one yet commented that this came from allnewsweb.com, a known disinfo site?
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?14724

Any report originating from allnewsweb should be treated as suspect.

BeforeItsNews also thinks it's a fake.
http://beforeitsnews.com/story/434/584/Watch_Fake_UFO_Over_Hospital_in_Bolivia.html
Yes I was thinking the url rang a bell. I am happy to trust Bill's judgement on that at the moment as I don't have the time. I would think a disinfo site would need to mix a reasonable amount of valid stuff with rubbish to enable it to send people off track.

The linked site just quotes a youtuber with the same same points made my GK (which I don't think PROVE its a fake). I was expecting much better than that with a big "FAKE" in the headline. Just conjecture again rather any real evidence it seems.

No, I have nothing to do with that site or "the youtuber". Please do not connect my thoughts to the content of that website, I'll assume you meant no harm.

Just a quick question to you: Do you consider the Op's linked video to be evidence which should be disproved, or that it is evidence which should be proven?

[cloud9]

Hello all,
another thing to consider and I understand you guys don't know because of the language is this: the guy who filmed this was taking pictures of his children and saw "something" in the sky so he shot the video, as it was a very short event, he didn't think much about it and kept on taking his children pictures. When he showed the video to his wife she didn't believe it was something important either, it was his friend who told him it could be worth to have a second opinion.

As they have seen Mausan on TV they were looking how to contact him, finally they ended up on tv but the guy wasn't really interested on being famous or anything, it was other people who thought it could be something.

Finally Mausan said he was going to take the video to be analyzed by experts, also they were showing the video directly from the cell phone.

I really don't know much about this but I see the guy who shot the video as a humble and simple person, not much knowledge about technical stuff, but I can be wrong.

[AlkaMyst]

Here's the link in Sanish where allnewsweb.com got this from, for all of you that say this is fake!

Please do your research before posting vague comments!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p572OWorLfY&feature=player_embedded

http://djxhemary.wordpress.com/2011/02/19/fantastico-avistamiento-filmado-en-la-paz-bolivia-18-de-febrero-2011/

http://www.agenciaderevelacionovni.tk/

http://vodpod.com/djxhemary

http://www.wikio.es/video/captan-ovni-sobrevolando-paz-5065260

[Olam]

Its always very facinating to me how even in a place like here, most of us fall back on ego and get into silly arguments that have nothing to do with the topic.
I have just came back from Peru doing ayahuasca, i learned that the ego can never be removed or else you die, but heck, I also learned how to put it side when its time to do that.
In case you have the reflection, yes Im speaking with ego now, I use it now to mention to some of you how easy it is to use that in all ways.

I hope Im not too cryptic, but just to say, I think we have a long way to go to be type 1 civilization and it has alot to do with how people react.
Flame all you want, as some of you will, you can't help it. Then when you are done, please try to understand what are you really doing here....
have a nice day

[str8thinker]

OK. Let's recap. Here's D-Day's original post:


Currently making news in Bolivia is a UFO event reported to have taken place in the last few days in La Paz, the capital city.

A large disc shaped UFO was seen by at least two witnesses as it hovered briefly above a hospital (see footage below). One of the witnesses managed to film the object with his mobile phone camera.

The two witnesses subsequently appeared on the television show 'Todo Pulmon' and affirmed that the event was genuine. Local builder, Juan Carlos, noted that he "had never seen anything like it in his entire life".

The witnesses also contacted renowned Mexican UFO expert, Jaime Maussan, who examined the footage and concluded that it was genuine.

http://www.allnewsweb.com/page1199999491.php

Regrettably I don't understand Spanish, so I can't evaluate AlkaMyst's comments, nor those of anyone else in this language. However, to sum up:

Pro:
Witnesses appeared to be honest.
Jaime Maussan and, I understand, other UFO experts concluded it was genuine.

Con:
Other "experts" are adamant that this is a fake.
With today's software it is not too difficult to edit a video, adding objects, etc.
The source of the report (though not the YouTube video) was allnewsweb.com.

I don't know enough about UFOs and video editing to declare whether the video is fake or not and feel like a juror as the legal eagles battle it out. So I personally am still undecided on this particular report.

So what have I learned from this thread?

First, how divisive an issue like this can become - which is exactly what disinfo agents like Michael Cohen at allnewsweb.com seek to do. Let's assume that the video is genuine, after all. Disinfo agents like to sprinkle their muck with the genuine article to avoid becoming completely discredited.

However, it's equally important to separate the video (and any other evidence) from the web page that reports it. If AllNewsWeb turns out to be the SOLE ORIGINAL SOURCE of a report, then I would say you can be 99% sure it is bogus (search PA for similar reports). I admit I got a bit carried away on this occasion and threw the baby out with the bathwater; the video surfaced first and was then picked up by AllNewsWeb.

Second, we don't want to score off D-Day and others, which only discourages them from continuing to post here. So we need to present our own views dispassionately and as factually as possible. Again I admit I did not do this.

Last, I feel it is important, periodically, to sum up a thread, particularly long ones as I am trying to do here, to weigh the evidence.

(Added) The trick of intermittently rewarding the subject by sprinkling gold among the dross is known as intermittent reinforcement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinforcement) and is used in every form of commercial gambling to hide the fact that the longer you play, the more likely to be on a losing streak. Same in the disinfo world.

[One]

I can't believe it! No one yet commented that this came from allnewsweb.com, a known disinfo site?
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?14724

Any report originating from allnewsweb should be treated as suspect.

BeforeItsNews also thinks it's a fake.
http://beforeitsnews.com/story/434/584/Watch_Fake_UFO_Over_Hospital_in_Bolivia.html
Yes I was thinking the url rang a bell. I am happy to trust Bill's judgement on that at the moment as I don't have the time. I would think a disinfo site would need to mix a reasonable amount of valid stuff with rubbish to enable it to send people off track.

The linked site just quotes a youtuber with the same same points made my GK (which I don't think PROVE its a fake). I was expecting much better than that with a big "FAKE" in the headline. Just conjecture again rather any real evidence it seems.

No, I have nothing to do with that site or "the youtuber". Please do not connect my thoughts to the content of that website, I'll assume you meant no harm.

Just a quick question to you: Do you consider the Op's linked video to be evidence which should be disproved, or that it is evidence which should be proven?

It was just was interesting really. Similar points were raised. Nothing was meant by it and I wasn't implying the comments were connected.

Neither I think it should be objectively considered without bias. I only tend to get involved because I find all the people instantly proclaiming stuff as fake as really egotistical and condecending. Now it wouldn't be so bad if this was being done based on some solid evidence from the films. Instead we have conjecture or really poor interpretations of things. Cables that turn out to be plants. Saucers that don't go behind a tree (but are then spotted behind it). Everybody jumps over each other to be the clever one that proves something is fake. Often they brag about how quickly they proved it (or didn't as it normally turns out). They also like to mention how amusing the discussion was for them knowing it to a fake. Thats why I get involved. I like to re-adjust the balance (or perhaps my ego does). Nothing to do with proving anything really. More about truth, objectivity and respect. These are general points which I am not relating to this thread.

Anyway no hard feelings xxx No doubt I am only seeing my own reflection in the mirror lol.

[One]

Its always very facinating to me how even in a place like here, most of us fall back on ego and get into silly arguments that have nothing to do with the topic.
I have just came back from Peru doing ayahuasca, i learned that the ego can never be removed or else you die, but heck, I also learned how to put it side when its time to do that.
In case you have the reflection, yes Im speaking with ego now, I use it now to mention to some of you how easy it is to use that in all ways.

I hope Im not too cryptic, but just to say, I think we have a long way to go to be type 1 civilization and it has alot to do with how people react.
Flame all you want, as some of you will, you can't help it. Then when you are done, please try to understand what are you really doing here....
have a nice day

I have edited my reply here because I didn't feel comfortable with what I originally said here. I have a tendency to agree with something sometimes to make peace or as a token of my good will. However it doesn't feel like my truth and the danger is that it then becomes used for the benefit of people wanting to feel superior. I said I agreed here but I wasn't a 100% comfortable with that.

So for example in this case I don't think my arguments were off topic and in general I am very good at putting my ego to one side. As I say I get involved where I think I see arrogance basically. I have literally always had a tendency to defend people at the wrong end of that.

The reason I have mentioned debunking in my posts is that I just don't see the logic in much of what is said to prove something is a fake. I literally cannot see how people come to the conclusions they do? Grasping for explanations I have previosuly concluded debunking might be going on. Hence my sarcasm sometimes. Now I suspect that conclusion is incorrect in most cases.

Am I being driven by ego or is it a need to defend the truth? Is it the same thing? I think it is involved but hopefully its not as much about me as is being implied.

Anyway I am still interested in your ayahuasca experience though? Did you have any other insights apart from the ego?

[Lord Sidious]

Its always very facinating to me how even in a place like here, most of us fall back on ego and get into silly arguments that have nothing to do with the topic.
I have just came back from Peru doing ayahuasca, i learned that the ego can never be removed or else you die, but heck, I also learned how to put it side when its time to do that.
In case you have the reflection, yes Im speaking with ego now, I use it now to mention to some of you how easy it is to use that in all ways.

I hope Im not too cryptic, but just to say, I think we have a long way to go to be type 1 civilization and it has alot to do with how people react.
Flame all you want, as some of you will, you can't help it. Then when you are done, please try to understand what are you really doing here....
have a nice day

I suppose we can put some of it down to ''growing pains'' and that people are still struggling with the ''old them'' and the ''new them'' for control of their future.
I can't say that I don't get involved in it, I try hard not to, but sometimes the Irish in me says ''A fight, yes!'' and I am off and running.
This place is meant to be different than others, yet it isn't, there are people here.
Better people than elsewhere? Maybe, but by who's measurement?
There are a STACK of excellent people here and I am honoured to be here and to participate alongside them, but I don't expect to come across someone like Mohandas Gandhi or the like, they are out there doing it.
It makes sense you can't remove the ego, it is part of us for better or worse.

[One]

I'm off to see if I can start an argument in the "Enlightenment: The Ego, what is it? How to transcend it" thread. See you all there :)

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?860-Enlightenment-The-Ego-what-is-it-How-to-transcend-it.

[Olam]

[QUOTE=Olam;151518]
I have edited my reply here because I didn't feel comfortable with what I originally said here. I have a tendency to agree with something sometimes to make peace or as a token of my good will. However it doesn't feel like my truth and the danger is that it then becomes used for the benefit of people wanting to feel superior. I said I agreed here but I wasn't a 100% comfortable with that.

So for example in this case I don't think my arguments were off topic and in general I am very good at putting my ego to one side. As I say I get involved where I think I see arrogance basically. I have literally always had a tendency to defend people at the wrong end of that.

The reason I have mentioned debunking in my posts is that I just don't see the logic in much of what is said to prove something is a fake. I literally cannot see how people come to the conclusions they do? Grasping for explanations I have previosuly concluded debunking might be going on. Hence my sarcasm sometimes. Now I suspect that conclusion is incorrect in most cases.

Am I being driven by ego or is it a need to defend the truth? Is it the same thing? I think it is involved but hopefully its not as much about me as is being implied.

Anyway I am still interested in your ayahuasca experience though? Did you have any other insights apart from the ego?

I don't remember your original quote, but its all good in the end. Standing up for what you beleive and affirming yourself is always good, no matter what the people think. My original intent with my quote was more on people who just argue to argue, which I don't think was your intention.
My comment might of been a bit harsh, I don't comment often about those things and so when I do its because the glass is full and falling.
In any case thanks for your comments which are pertinent and thoughtful I think.
As far as my Ayahuasca journey, I won't comment much here exept to say that it was all of the following: Frightful, sacred, blissful, enlighting and door opening. It changed my life permanently as I now know who I am. The divine intelligence in this medecine is a gift to us all . As soon as it enters in you, it knows you inside out. It will match all respect and devotion you have for it and will grant you your wishes if you are willing to work hard......and I do mean work so very hard.
I know now, I can create anything I want and have everything I want because my perpective on my life has changed.
I won't say more as to not highjack the thread.

[humanalien]

Are you serious? Video's of such poor quality are obvious hoax's only serve to discredit the forum, please use better judgment when posting. Whoever said that was genuine needs their head examined...or new glasses.

It's people like you that discredit this forum with posts like that. D-Day was only posting something
that he/she thought worthy of sharing on this forum.

If you thought the video could have been a hoax then you could have said it in a polite way
and not discredit and deface the poster while doing it.

I'm sure you hurt him/her feelings when you made such a harsh post.

[AlkaMyst]

Olam

Re: UFO filmed hovering above hospital in Bolivia
Its always very facinating to me how even in a place like here, most of us fall back on ego and get into silly arguments that have nothing to do with the topic.
I have just came back from Peru doing ayahuasca, i learned that the ego can never be removed or else you die, but heck, I also learned how to put it side when its time to do that.
In case you have the reflection, yes Im speaking with ego now, I use it now to mention to some of you how easy it is to use that in all ways.

I hope Im not too cryptic, but just to say, I think we have a long way to go to be type 1 civilization and it has alot to do with how people react.
Flame all you want, as some of you will, you can't help it. Then when you are done, please try to understand what are you really doing here....
have a nice day

Great to hear that Olam, I am ready for my ayahuasca experience tho I don't have the money for the trip to Peru....hopefully sometime in the near future.....I would like to invite you to a few threads that I have which deal with Ayahuasca and Shamanism (lots of documentaries and great deal of information regarding this subject from other Avalon Members).

See here:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?10923-New-Shamanic-Documentary-Metamorphosis-A-Journey-of-Tranformation

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?11705-All-About-Shamanism-Documentaries-and-More!!!

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?10942-Who-s-Driving-The-Dreambus-The-Documentary

All your input is very much appreciated, thanks in advanced!!!


str8thinker

Regrettably I don't understand Spanish, so I can't evaluate AlkaMyst's comments, nor those of anyone else in this language. However, to sum up:

Pro:
Witnesses appeared to be honest.
Jaime Maussan and, I understand, other UFO experts concluded it was genuine.

Con:
Other "experts" are adamant that this is a fake.
With today's software it is not too difficult to edit a video, adding objects, etc.
The source of the report (though not the YouTube video) was allnewsweb.com.

I don't know enough about UFOs and video editing to declare whether the video is fake or not and feel like a juror as the legal eagles battle it out. So I personally am still undecided on this particular report.

So what have I learned from this thread?

First, how divisive an issue like this can become - which is exactly what disinfo agents like Michael Cohen at allnewsweb.com seek to do. Let's assume that the video is genuine, after all. Disinfo agents like to sprinkle their muck with the genuine article to avoid becoming completely discredited.

However, it's equally important to separate the video (and any other evidence) from the web page that reports it. If AllNewsWeb turns out to be the SOLE ORIGINAL SOURCE of a report, then I would say you can be 99% sure it is bogus (search PA for similar reports). I admit I got a bit carried away on this occasion and threw the baby out with the bathwater; the video surfaced first and was then picked up by AllNewsWeb.

Second, we don't want to score off D-Day and others, which only discourages them from continuing to post here. So we need to present our own views dispassionately and as factually as possible. Again I admit I did not do this.

Last, I feel it is important, periodically, to sum up a thread, particularly long ones as I am trying to do here, to weigh the evidence.

(Added) The trick of intermittently rewarding the subject by sprinkling gold among the dross is known as intermittent reinforcement and is used in every form of commercial gambling to hide the fact that the longer you play, the more likely to be on a losing streak. Same in the disinfo world.

My dear friend, I hope that you didn't think that my comments were directed at you as you know I really value everything you have to say....you are a very intelligent person in my opinion and I really appreciate all your input. You make sense on everything you say and I am not saying that this footage is real or not, is just that some members like to bash threads as soon as they are put up and don't really do their research to back their comments (and that's neither nice or polite), we are all here to learn from each other and not to put one another down.

It really aggravates me when I see others doing this as I have been through my share of bashing from other members.....I will shut down my threads as soon as I get the bashing because people really don't have anything nice to say or have any constructive criticism to contribute. They also then to make the thread go in a different direction and make it out to be something completely different then what's being discussed!!!

My apologies if I offended any one here, but I'm a straight forward person and I will be quick to let anyone know when they are worng or just being a total and complete A**!!!


humanalien

It's people like you that discredit this forum with posts like that. D-Day was only posting something
that he/she thought worthy of sharing on this forum.

If you thought the video could have been a hoax then you could have said it in a polite way
and not discredit and deface the poster while doing it.

I'm sure you hurt him/her feelings when you made such a harsh post.

Thank you my friend for your caring comments, it's nice to see that some people here still care and value what others have to say!!!

Keep up the good work!

D-Day, keep them coming and don't be discourage....I value your input!!!

Blessings to all,
AlkaMyst

[One]

[QUOTE=Olam;151518]
I have edited my reply here because I didn't feel comfortable with what I originally said here. I have a tendency to agree with something sometimes to make peace or as a token of my good will. However it doesn't feel like my truth and the danger is that it then becomes used for the benefit of people wanting to feel superior. I said I agreed here but I wasn't a 100% comfortable with that.

So for example in this case I don't think my arguments were off topic and in general I am very good at putting my ego to one side. As I say I get involved where I think I see arrogance basically. I have literally always had a tendency to defend people at the wrong end of that.

The reason I have mentioned debunking in my posts is that I just don't see the logic in much of what is said to prove something is a fake. I literally cannot see how people come to the conclusions they do? Grasping for explanations I have previosuly concluded debunking might be going on. Hence my sarcasm sometimes. Now I suspect that conclusion is incorrect in most cases.

Am I being driven by ego or is it a need to defend the truth? Is it the same thing? I think it is involved but hopefully its not as much about me as is being implied.

Anyway I am still interested in your ayahuasca experience though? Did you have any other insights apart from the ego?

I don't remember your original quote, but its all good in the end. Standing up for what you beleive and affirming yourself is always good, no matter what the people think. My original intent with my quote was more on people who just argue to argue, which I don't think was your intention.
My comment might of been a bit harsh, I don't comment often about those things and so when I do its because the glass is full and falling.
In any case thanks for your comments which are pertinent and thoughtful I think.
As far as my Ayahuasca journey, I won't comment much here exept to say that it was all of the following: Frightful, sacred, blissful, enlighting and door opening. It changed my life permanently as I now know who I am. The divine intelligence in this medecine is a gift to us all . As soon as it enters in you, it knows you inside out. It will match all respect and devotion you have for it and will grant you your wishes if you are willing to work hard......and I do mean work so very hard.
I know now, I can create anything I want and have everything I want because my perpective on my life has changed.
I won't say more as to not highjack the thread.

Thanks for your comments Olam. Much appreciated :)

Wow that sounds absolutely amazing. I am really glad it has changed your outlook on life for the better and has made you confident of your ability to create. I hope I will get to that point myself one day.