The cult of the Spurious Nonsense Fountain

[Mr54]

I will start this thread by telling you of something that happened to me.

I was in one of the Avalon chat rooms a few nights ago. I happened to notice that a fellow member made an entry to the effect that he was having trouble sleeping and I thought from his description that he was probably suffering from sleep paralysis. During bouts of sleep paralysis the sufferer often has a feeling of being watched which results in a feeling of dread and fear. I offhandedly made some remarks about the fear being an artifact of his physical body and mind and the key to overcoming the fear was to observe the thoughts occurring within him and to understand that they were not real. Or something along these lines, the problem with this is that it was something I had read in a book the previous evening. The next thing I knew I had received a PM from this member asking me for my wisdom and teaching. I was honest with this member gave him the title of the book I had been reading, a little pep talk about not worrying about stuff and I’ve not heard from him since.

I had become a convert to what I call the cult of the spurious nonsense fountain or SNF for short. I had misrepresented myself as something I am not through clumsy use of language and a liberal dollop of ego. I was playing the sage learned Wise man although in truth I am far from this.

In a place where communication is achieved through text on a screen these kinds of misunderstandings can be commonplace. We will all to some greater or lesser extent use our imaginations to fill in the chasms which lie between words and our imaginations can be powerful things.

In the few weeks that I have been a member of this forum I have noticed that sometimes when people post threads or reply to posted threads they seem to choose language which deliberately or not makes them seem mysterious, knowledgeable, or even powerful. They say things like “I sensed them/it” “I cannot/will not give details” “I am this or that or the other” Now I am not bringing into question the claims of these people as I am unqualified to be their judge what I would like to point out is that by communicating in this way they are playing the type of power games which I believe we all came here to get away from. I absolutely understand that these people may have a need for secrecy but I think that with a little thought they could probably avoid these dramatic assertions and the ripples they cause.


Thank you for reading!

Post update:

Full membership to the Cult Of The Spurious Nonsense Fountain is available at www.spuriousnonsensefountain.com

[Fredkc]

The Spurious Nonsense Fountain springs forth from an old, rusty Pepsi can (no, they were not always made of aluminum) which is kept under the bleachers at the now infamous Bohemian Grove.

I would love to tell you more, but all such whistleblowing efforts must be checked with my former employers. As soon as they give me permission, I will reveal all. I can sense you believe me so, check back.

Fred
PS: Great post, 54. I love it.

[jorr lundstrom]

Imo an exellent observation. Yes some are here to avoid this behaviour but obviously not all. On PA and on other forums you always

see people after having read some books present the information they have collected as if it was their own knowledge.

One effect of this is that new members without any own experience in the field may well think this is wisdom.

And if people tell these that the written is very good, its easy for the writer to imagine him/herself as

a wise person. You can observe it everywhere. Look around. LOL

[greybeard]

Yes I got totally confused too.
I could read a long winded text and be none the wiser at the end of it, then some one else would join in the fray and give very intellectual spouts of Diarrh**

Quickly followed by rebuttal. I came to the conclusion these these grand sounding exchanges were emanating from well educated airh******

Not that I am judgmental you understand. Its just that if people want to fight why dont they abide by the Marquis of Queensbury rules and enter into the noble sport of fisticuffs with no other intention than to have good honorable fight,
Then the rest of us could just sit back and wait till the final bell a winner declared by knock out or points.
We then would have 8 rounds or is it posts and all would be well.
Instead we have a marathon of God knows how many posts and no clear winner in fact no clear rational debate.
Laughing hysterically
I throw in the towel

Chris

[firstlook]

I see this issue highlighting the act of comparison. If someone has the wisdom of the information, they can explain the idea or theory or whatever, a million different ways. Linking it to all sorts of situations which usually arise when a person seeks advice.

The idea is to offer something you understand, and then counter that with something you dont understand or still is uneasy.

Although this will still put you in the mentor position, it keeps people from clinging to your views because you constantly show what you dont know.

Sometimes I wish I would do this more, it is a delicate practice. For example, I started a thread on educating children, and while I have not offered any specific practices, just merely an outline to consider, I forgot to mention that I do not have children myself. I simply forgot to add that in. This is the type of discipline that I personally have to work on, but it does seem to be a situation for people looking to involve themselves in complex debates where trust needs to be the supporting structure.

Being more personal with how you reflect the information you support and talk about, not only establishes your credibility of knowledge, but also in a way mentors those who interact with you to do the exact same thing.

I am still adapting to this formula and I guess the Avalon community as a whole, but I think this is the reason I am attracted to this setting. Because this forum creates a place where you can really get into subjects where you usually wouldn't intertwine your true personal feelings.

I hope this is relevant to to the thread topic.

[bodixa]

oh.. I clicked... I wanted to join.. darn!


Based on your post, MR54, I bet you are a sage, really... :)

[moais]

it is the reader who is wise, he is the one to interpret the words as he desires...

I am like you 54

we have free words, no real form nor meaning, the reader gives them meaning and reason

[Fredkc]

n the few weeks that I have been a member of this forum I have noticed that sometimes when people post threads or reply to posted threads they seem to choose language which...
When I am not joking around...

I've tend to limit my "Advice" to what I know to be as universally true as I can reach for.
Failing that, what I've found works for me.
Failing that, what I'm currently using as my working theory about whats true.
Failing that, I try not to waste other people's time.

How else are they to learn?
How else am I to learn?
how else could I expect honesty in what is returned?
So much of the learning process comes from us trying out what we think is true, against the real world. Being honest about honestly screwing up, moves the ball along much faster than most things.

Fred

[Mr54]

The Spurious Nonsense Fountain springs forth from an old, rusty Pepsi can (no, they were not always made of aluminum) which is kept under the bleachers at the now infamous Bohemian Grove.

I would love to tell you more, but all such whistleblowing efforts must be checked with my former employers. As soon as they give me permission, I will reveal all. I can sense you believe me so, check back.

Fred
PS: Great post, 54. I love it.

What do you know Fred? Seriously man! Tell me!

[Fredkc]

What do you know Fred? Seriously man! Tell me!

1. God is.
2. Fore-giveness is as close as we get.
3. I ain't there yet.
4. When you do, fore-give me.

[Mr54]

Imo an exellent observation. Yes some are here to avoid this behaviour but obviously not all. On PA and on other forums you always

see people after having read some books present the information they have collected as if it was their own knowledge.

One effect of this is that new members without any own experience in the field may well think this is wisdom.

And if people tell these that the written is very good, its easy for the writer to imagine him/herself as

a wise person. You can observe it everywhere. Look around. LOL

Hi Jor yup its very easy to get bogged down in the BS when all the energy's flowing your way.

[bodixa]

I did something.

I wish I could tell you but my boss says not yet.

She is old and many would like her job.

I thank you.

[greybeard]

Good night may your God bless you
Chris

[Mr54]

oh.. I clicked... I wanted to join.. darn!


Based on your post, MR54, I bet you are a sage, really... :)

$90 gets you on the first step of the pyramid

[Mr54]

I see this issue highlighting the act of comparison. If someone has the wisdom of the information, they can explain the idea or theory or whatever, a million different ways. Linking it to all sorts of situations which usually arise when a person seeks advice.

The idea is to offer something you understand, and then counter that with something you dont understand or still is uneasy.

Although this will still put you in the mentor position, it keeps people from clinging to your views because you constantly show what you dont know.

Sometimes I wish I would do this more, it is a delicate practice. For example, I started a thread on educating children, and while I have not offered any specific practices, just merely an outline to consider, I forgot to mention that I do not have children myself. I simply forgot to add that in. This is the type of discipline that I personally have to work on, but it does seem to be a situation for people looking to involve themselves in complex debates where trust needs to be the supporting structure.

Being more personal with how you reflect the information you support and talk about, not only establishes your credibility of knowledge, but also in a way mentors those who interact with you to do the exact same thing.

I am still adapting to this formula and I guess the Avalon community as a whole, but I think this is the reason I am attracted to this setting. Because this forum creates a place where you can really get into subjects where you usually wouldn't intertwine your true personal feelings.

I hope this is relevant to to the thread topic.

Hey firstlook, I guess it all comes down to intention when attempting to communicate especially when in such an abstract setting. That and making especially sure you have made yourself as clear as possible, even then people are going to misunderstand. I remember writing in another thread that I thought words were entirely too inadequate as a form of communication and I stand by this.

[bodixa]

oh.. I clicked... I wanted to join.. darn!


Based on your post, MR54, I bet you are a sage, really... :)

$90 gets you on the first step of the pyramid

cheque is in the post... :cool:

[Mr54]

oh.. I clicked... I wanted to join.. darn!


Based on your post, MR54, I bet you are a sage, really... :)

$90 gets you on the first step of the pyramid

cheque is in the post... :cool:

You are very wise bodixa you will go far in The Cult Of The Spurious Nonsense Fountain!

[Selene]

Mr54, you’ve raised some excellent points.

And, if I may say so, part of the problem you’ve so very astutely identified is: a) inherent in the current planetary situation, and b) inherent in the internet and human ego.

a) The world situation/the age. There is such a great, crying need for true spiritual guidance at the present time. So many are lost and wandering as the Old Religions, the old gods, crumble to dust and disrepute as part of our natural cycle of global spiritual evolution. New truths cannot be heard clearly until the Old Religions have lost their power over humble hearts.

And this stage is now virtually complete.

So quite naturally those now thirsting for truth will drink from any well that seems wet. They are simply starving for spiritual guidance.

And, not to mangle metaphors too outrageously, but like a drowning man they will leap onto you – anyone - as a rescuer in desperation. (When I went to Lifeguard school, they taught us that drowning people can be so panicked and desperate for help that their flailing can drown you, too. You might have to knock them unconscious in order to rescue them safely!) My own beloved gurudev used to say: “If you want to rescue others, you must first become a strong swimmer yourself. Otherwise, you only have two people drowning...”

Herein lies the greater danger: Teaching beyond your depth. In a genuine effort to help, we may begin by offering others some practical wisdom with a good heart. This is a kind and generous thing to do.

But the drowning man is in very real need, isn’t he? And so grateful. More need follows. It’s palpable. They are so grateful. And eventually...

b) The poseur. The ego-gamer. The hot commodity with a following. From your lips to the gods.

Man, are you in trouble now. Except you don’t know it. You are as blind as your followers.

And on the internet, it’s too easy, isn’t it? We do have some very fine souls here. Wonderful, extraordinary, and very, very wise people who exhibit genuine understanding and tact. But..... also.... ah, well.

Moral of the story: Know thyself. And teach only what you know to be true from your own experience And never, ever trade your experience for someone else’s opinion.

Integrity is all.

Just my two sense, dear friends.

Cheers and best regards,

Selene

[aikya]

self cencorship at work = hs decided silence was better!

[Peta Babkama Luruba Anaku]

I will start this thread by telling you of something that happened to me.
mod-edit: excess quoted material removed
...

Dear Mr 54 and all who have read this post,

I am the one who Pm Mr. 54. I did so because I have not used a chat room for quite some time, and felt extremely bad about not being able to get back to our chat. Our conversation started with an issue I had every so often with sleeping. I found your ideas interesting as you were one of the fist people to answer a few basic questions I had on the topic of EGO. Another forum member messaged me through the chat room I heard a bing bing noise and you were gone. Again I felt extremely bad that our chat was cut.

Here is my PM to you:

Hello
I am so sorry. I was very interested in learning from you but I am unfamiliar with chat rooms. The last time I used one was when my monitor was monochrome. I heard a beep beep and then I was chatting with someone else and I didn't know how to get back to you. I am sorry. I would like to continue our chat.
George

* I try to learn from every person I meet.

Your response:
mod-edit: contents of several Private Messages (PM's) removed. The PM's were from a dialog back and forth between two members, posted without the other members permission. It is a violation of Forum Guidelines (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/faq.php?faq=avalonguidelines#faq_membershipguidelines) to post the contents of PM's sent by others, without their permission. The member who posted these PM's without their sender's permission was unsubscribed for seven days (that time period has just expired, as I write this.)


~~~~~~~~~~

mod-edit: Removed contents of a rebuttal, addressed to one other member, expressed with some evident irritation. Such material detracts from the goals of this site. While I was editing this post anyway, I decided to remove this rebuttal as well.

George

[ThePythonicCow]

This thread has been closed, as per request of the original poster.