Sharing the Truth?

[blake]

Dear All,

I was taught decades ago that it was efficient in beginning a study to write down:
1, What I already knew for sure about the topic,
2, What I thought I knew about the topic
3. What I would like to know about a topic.
And that is how I usually go about my own new studies. However, I find few people, other than my students, guests, audience, or charges who are actually willing to say what they know for sure, or what they don’t know.

My experience has been that people sometimes:
seem to like to imply that they know the truth but won’t share it because it would be too shocking.

Or, they seem to only share what they consider disinformation and never share what they believe is the truth.

Or, there are the perpetual seekers of truth expecting never to really find the truth, and enjoy the adventure more than arriving at the actual destination of truth

And then there are those who seem not willing to commit to any truth at all.

So I was wondering if some of you would be so kind as to please share with me something that you know for sure to be true. And something that you only think might be true; and something that you would like to know….. concerning the topics that are discussed on this forum of course.


Sincerely,
Mr. Davis
2/26/11

[moais]

something I know for sure:
art is the reflection of the society in its related era.

[blake]

something I know for sure:
art is the reflection of the society in its related era.

Hello Moais,

That is so true! Who do you think, as an Artist, best reflects today's society? And who, as an Artist , or artwork,do you think refects Avalon? And perhaps, who has an artist best reflects you?

Sincerely,
Mr. Davis
2/16/11

Sincerely

[moais]

[QUOTE=blake;157598
Hello Moais,

That is so true! Who do you think, as an Artist, best reflects today's society? And who, as an Artist , or artwork,do you think refects Avalon? And perhaps, who has an artist best reflects you?

Sincerely,
Mr. Davis
2/16/11

Sincerely[/QUOTE]

there are many societies here in this planet, so dunno if someone is really qualified to be selected as representative of the whole world,

this society avalon, dunno man, i don not know this place for for much time to point someone who summarizes it all,

Me, none, I cannot find myself in other pieces of art, i draw poorly, thats enough for me, i relfect myself in my drawings.... lol

hope it helps

[58andfixed]

1) The 'Truth' doesn't exist on this Planet. We all require 'bending' of any truth to get it past our minds.

2) We are "The Problem."

3) Our Cognitive Biases keep us divided.

4) Everyone is biased. It's only a matter of some shade of grey that separated me before and after my 'awakenings,' which keeps transcending each prior 'awakening.'

5) I stay busy attempting to find more things that I didn't know that I didn't know.

- 58

[blake]

1) The 'Truth' doesn't exist on this Planet. We all require 'bending' of any truth to get it past our minds.

2) We are "The Problem."

3) Our Cognitive Biases keep us divided.

4) Everyone is biased. It's only a matter of some shade of grey that separated me before and after my 'awakenings,' which keeps transcending each prior 'awakening.'

5) I stay busy attempting to find more things that I didn't know that I didn't know.

- 58

- 58
Hello 58

Thank you for responding. In some ways, but not all, I agree that there is no truth on this earth, at least it doesn’t appear to be, just shades of grey connecting our different perspectives as many of us humans try to “bend” the truth past our minds. I do like how you phrased that.

Through the decades I met an array of people with different backgrounds and experiences claiming to have various powers, and knowing certain truths. Unfortunately many said they were uncomfortable with releasing their “discovered truth”, as they felt the public just wasn’t “ready” for the information. I believe that attitude they have contributes to the deception that is already entrenched in this world, rather than making a contribution to what is good and right for humans, by, in my opinion shining a light on truth. Why is it that it appears that many times we humans support blocking humans from having a chance of becoming stronger so that they can process the truth instead of having to bend it around their minds, while continuing to live with so many pockets of deception?

I also agree with that “we” are the problem. Someone wrote to me that she believed deception was programmed into us humans; and since we lived with so much deception around us that it makes seeing the truth, for humans, very challenging.

I currently believe , it is the ego of humans, with their innate tendency to limit their perspective, in other words, “I am right and you are wrong”, style of communication, combined with humans allowing themselves to live daily among so many negative deceptions , that is making humans themselves to be the major obstacle in obtaining the truth. I think that until humans decide to eliminate that “gene of deception” and many of the deceptions in the world in which they live in, evil will win out, and we will never have the truth. Instead we will continue to be only truth seekers, and never truth finders. But it appears some believe that is all we should be; that we are on earth not to know the truth, but only to search for it. I humbly disagree with that line of thinking.

Imagine what learning about the concept of “truth is like for a small child, which might explain why so may humans become more comfortable with deception than truth, and can sometimes even fear the truth. There are so many examples to choose from, but I will go with this one. Most young school children are taught that“ honesty is the best policy”. But how soon do they discover, in the reality of the world of playground, or adult “powertics” (what I call politics), do they discover for themselves that that isn’t always correct. As one lady wrote to me she said: children end up growing up thinking that lies are the truth. And I think she might very well be right.

You write: “Our Cognitive Biases keep us divided”
I believe this to be true also; however, our psychology can be molded and changed for the better to be "truth based" instead of "deception based." Unfortunately, it is the factors of deception that we allow to flourish in society that we also allow to mold our thinking, that helps keep us divided. I think a forum like this would call it, our daily feeding of “mind control” Why allow it? Why play into all the deception, when we cognitively are aware that it is going on? I m sure many on this forum have heard that energy follows thought. If one lives focusing more on the deception rather than living and focusing more on truth ( not seeking the truth) but living in truth, where will the energy of thought be found, and what is being created....... more deception or more truth?

You write, everyone is biased, and I believe that is a true statement. And I also believe that everyone seems to crave powertics in anyway they can wield it, no matter how trivial, as long as they have some power, over some person, at some point; even if the only power they have is to insult someone. I don’t think the problem of being biased is without solution if basic respect and courtesy is upheld. However, it appears that with a society immersed in deception, those healthy qualities fade fast among us all. As long as society does not honor and respect truth, more than deception, it will always treat the truth as a commodity to be manipulated, and at times chopped up in pieces to be sold to the highest bidder, or even locked up in the archives to be used only at someone’s convenience to hurt another in someway: personally, socially, politically or financially.

A person wrote me the following statement which I believe is were worth pondering over”

.“…….Although we get the verbiage that we are to be honest it is hard to learn honesty when everyone around us is lying... in the media, in our churches, in our friendships etc. What is the impact of one small lie? It teaches the receiver of the lie to accept lies as truth and it clouds the actual truth so that we learn to misread signals, body language, and the vibes, to discredit our own intuition, so when the truth does come our way they have a harder time discerning it. When your foundation is built upon lies how can anyone possibly discern the truth?.”

As you said, 58, humans are the problem. And apparently they have been the problem from the beginning of their existence. How can we as a society ever have faith in the honesty of the human race with old legends like Diogenes lasting through the ages being passed down. Diogenes is the Greek who searched the world for an honest man and I do believe he never found one. Perhaps Diogenes never found an honest person, but I do believe there are honest humans. However, the honest ones without street smarts, and discernment, usually fall into the trap of being controlled or rewired into silencing that truth.

Is truth pure and safe at any level? I like to believe it can be. But then we have some research scientists who will not always reveal the truth for various selfish or political reasons, or even threat of life. And what secrets does that vast library of the Vatican hold that for centuries have been off limits to many researchers? So if we can’t find truth in science, in politics, in money, in our families, in our friendships, with religion, in our schools, where is truth honored? Again, 58, you seem to think it doesn’t exist on earth. I am hoping it does. I do know a few humans in which it exists, but for most of the people, for most of the time, I do not believe it exists yet. What I am saying is that truth does exist among humans but not in large pockets, and that is because for whatever reason, humans seem to choose deception over truth.


I was recently asked: :
“So what is it that you fear?”

My short answer was:
I believe both evil and goodness are part of the universe, and that our job is to understand that we are to choose to be on the side of goodness, and to not contribute to the evil. Unfortunately, a lot of people do contribute to various degrees of evil but rationalize their behavior daily.

What do I fear in life? I fear the results of so many humans being dishonest and so fearful of the truth; not the personal truth of tsomeone having the combination to your safe or how they really thought Aunt Besty looks tonight, but the truth that matters in blocking out evil. Evil lives because truth has not been allowed to shine.

So, 58, a man as wise as yourself to keep discovering things that you didn't know , you didn't know, what is one question that you wish could truefully be answered?

Sincerely,
Mr. Davis
2/28/11

[mike1414]

every thing comes back to love...

possibly everything and yet nothing

every aspect of being experiencing unconditional peace, love and respect

with smiles
mike

[delaware]

I know for sure that there are beings with immense love that are on earth but we usually don´t see them with our physical eyes. I know that beause I once felt and saw two of them.

[blake]

every thing comes back to love...

possibly everything and yet nothing

every aspect of being experiencing unconditional peace, love and respect

with smiles
mike

Hello Mike,

Thank you for responding. How wonderful to know that for sure. I hope one day I will know that for sure too.

Sincerely,
Mr. Davis
2/28/11

[58andfixed]

.. deception was programmed into us humans; and since we lived with so much deception around us that it makes seeing the truth, for humans, very challenging.
Sincerely,
Mr. Davis
2/28/11



Gorgeous piece of writing Mr Davis:

What if the issue is less egregious than 'deception,' simply a bias built into us all, most don't see it, are one of many who become 'duped,' and become the blind attempting to lead the blind... ?

Try a peek at a List of Cognitive Biases, and see if some kinder perspective & understanding on how we keep ourselves divided can be discovered.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Cognitive_Biases

"Belief bias – an effect where someone's evaluation of the logical strength of an argument is biased by the believability of the conclusion."

Of course the missing piece, the assumption of the existing paradigm that has existed since man discovered the power of sticks, rocks & fire... "You believe what you want to believe, and I'll believe what I want to believe."

The whole approach of deception and being duped then just becomes an exercise in self-education.

- 58

[58andfixed]

.. why so may humans become more comfortable with deception than truth, and can sometimes even fear the truth.

There are so many examples to choose from, but I will go with this one.

Most young school children are taught that“ honesty is the best policy”.

But how soon do they discover, in the reality of the world of playground, or adult “powertics” (what I call politics), do they discover for themselves that that isn’t always correct.

As one lady wrote to me she said: children end up growing up thinking that lies are the truth.

Sincerely,
Mr. Davis
2/28/11


I will continue with this in piecemeal fashion Mr Davis:

There are things one speaks of, the self-deception, there are things one doesn't speak of and learns through social interaction of which trumps which. [aka social IQ]

Peer pressure is a much more powerful force than mere ideals.

The Asch Experiment


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRh5qy09nNw

1m 58s 226,529 views

Posted November 23, 2008

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon_Asch

Understand ourselves, and we can then understand one another.

Maybe then people would find themselves less under attack, reacting with defensiveness, and more open to listening to your discoveries about yourself.

An early perception was that the discovery that "Santa" wasn't real, just a deception perpetrated with good but ignorant intentions, and was the opening crack of the "Generation Gap" -- more of a gap of trust than of 'generation.'

- 58

[58andfixed]

Again, 58, you seem to think it doesn’t exist on earth. I am hoping it does. I do know a few humans in which it exists, but for most of the people, for most of the time, I do not believe it exists yet.

Sincerely,
Mr. Davis
2/28/11

Thanks Mr Davis:

What if the expectation of truth being found in a person, book or social group is simply a misled expectation that could lead to grief ?

What if allowing for the bias built into us all, keeps us in dialog, avoid monologue and mere opinion ?

Would we not be encouraged to have a more critical thinking mind and take a discussion to positive conclusion of discovery for one, the other or both ?

Could we not continue to work on unraveling our biases and growing our awareness, even unto eternity ?

- 58

[InCiDeR]

(...) you know for sure to be true.

In my humble opinion, I don't think it is possible to "be sure something is true".

I have to split the question in two: objective truth and subjective truth... and maybe also in three, with spiritual truth as a special case.

Do objective truth exist? Well that is a very delicate question. One might say that "1+1=2" is an objective truth. Is it it really? Our mathematical system is still invented by humans.

Objective truth conditions are "mind-independent" - that is, not the result of any judgements made by a conscious entity or subject. Therefore I believe it is very hard to reach, if not impossible.

Subjective truth could be anything. One might believe that "1+1=3" and no one can actually say that is wrong... because that is the perception of what is true for that individual, you might have a different perception, but it really doesn't matter because you can never prove that you are more right than the other.

Spiritual truth is a different case though. Spiritual truth is something to experience, not something to believe in. I assume joy and love can be actually experienced, if you know how to access it. Does that experience make it true? It is true as far as it comes to subjective truth, but is it also a objective truth? Well, I can't possible know!

Maybe truth is like quantum physics. If you try to measure it, the measuring process itself changes the truth. So maybe one truth exists in this exact moment writing this line ... but at the end of this line it might be something totally different! ;)

[Maria Stade]

Truth is tricky.
What truth ?
The truth is in the eye of the one watching.
The mind makes up a story around it. Hmm

There is one truth and that is inside every one of us.
The own truth is what it is !

All Love

[jorr lundstrom]

Well, for many years I believed in a "TRUTH" worth to search for.

I didnt find it. Wot we call objectiv truth,well it takes a lot of subjectiv twistings

to make something look objective.

But I did find that I am the truth in my life.

I dont have any other truth and I dont need any other truth.

And of course my truth can be someone elses lie. I dont care.

Love and carrots.

[BowMan]

Is the truth the known absence of a lie? Something that you know for a fact and that can be rigorously proved without a shadow of a doubt? I don't know if I have any of that. My truth is therefore, I know nothing.
What is nothing?
Is it the same as nothingness?

[jorr lundstrom]

Is the truth the known absence of a lie? Something that you know for a fact and that can be rigorously proved without a shadow of a doubt? I don't know if I have any of that. My truth is therefore, I know nothing.
What is nothing?
Is it the same as nothingness?

Nothingness. Oh the delicacy of delicacies.

[modwiz]

Honesty is the best policy.

Too bad in our world that's a lie. And that is the truth, because we live a lie.

Have we arrived at the truth yet? :yield:

[write4change]

What I know for sure is that I know nothing for sure.

I have been touched by a man who made my heart sing. Yet, he said he felt nothing. He felt nothing for ten years.

I have been told that we resist love harder than we resist war. Sometimes that seems true.

When I was growing up, no one locked their doors in the neighborhood. There was not today's open deceit of what we have and how we earned it. We were also not branded. There was no point in lying to friends--that was why they were friends. We did not have social assets. We did not have frenemies.

People did shake hands and keep what they shoke on. When I went to college merchants had blank bank drafts and you could fill one out and it would be accepted by one and all. The idea that lying was a way of life was not a conception, certainly it wasn't an axiom.

These things are now beyond the comprehension of the young. We are told civilization itself brings war for resources and so it has always been. The city of Coral has been discovered 7,500 years old no fortifications, no signs of war or pestilence. A city of art and open trade. This is what is constantly kept out of the forefront of our minds---that it has been different. We are now worse in many ways than we ever were but we have the power to change again. That i know for sure. We have the power to change. The question is do we have the will?

[blake]

I know for sure that there are beings with immense love that are on earth but we usually don´t see them with our physical eyes. I know that beause I once felt and saw two of them.

Hello Delaware,

So interesting that you had that wonderful expereince of seeing two beings with immense love. The universe sure does grant some people some magical experiences, were they like angels? I think that is one way how we sometimes know things for sure, by having a direct experience like you did.

Sincerely,
Mr. Davis
3/2/11

[blake]

.. deception was programmed into us humans; and since we lived with so much deception around us that it makes seeing the truth, for humans, very challenging.
Sincerely,
Mr. Davis
2/28/11



Gorgeous piece of writing Mr Davis:

What if the issue is less egregious than 'deception,' simply a bias built into us all, most don't see it, are one of many who become 'duped,' and become the blind attempting to lead the blind... ?

Try a peek at a List of Cognitive Biases, and see if some kinder perspective & understanding on how we keep ourselves divided can be discovered.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Cognitive_Biases

"Belief bias – an effect where someone's evaluation of the logical strength of an argument is biased by the believability of the conclusion."

Of course the missing piece, the assumption of the existing paradigm that has existed since man discovered the power of sticks, rocks & fire... "You believe what you want to believe, and I'll believe what I want to believe."

The whole approach of deception and being duped then just becomes an exercise in self-education.

- 58

Hello once again 58,

I did indeed go to wekipedia to read what they said about cognitve biases; and agree with all I read there. Human nature does get biases imprinted on the mind just by living life from the time we enter this world. Therapy can be great at uncovering these issues, and helping us with the self edcuation process. These cognitive biases also make incisive tools to manipulate and manage people, or groups, by those in the business of controlling others, like TPTB; and these are also used for basic people management in coporations, and institutues, as well as Madision Avenue marketing. In my opinion, there is deception all around us, some is self inflicted, and some is manipulated upon us. The level of the manipulation various from selling a product, to mind control for sinister purposes, to simply dumbing down the masses.

What I know for sure is that trust is something that is earned over a long period of time, but can be broken in an instant. Although life often puts us in a position where we have little choice but to trust a person, or a situation, and hope for the best, it's best to try to manage one's life as to not be caught in those situations very often. In my humble opinion, learning as many as possible of one's own cogntive biases will go a long way in keeping a person from being manipulated in a world of deception.

Sincerely,
Mr. Davis
3/2/11

[Creative Lorraine]

I'm confused I have always lived by the phase The truth will set you free

When I resonate with inner feelings and facts I come to a conclusion of
the inner self truth..Negative tools thrown at me only reminds me to correct
the mistakes cuz of the distractions in life... I have always been a Truth seeker
Example When I meet some stranger get to know them help them and learn from
them i look back on the experience later and in my gut feelings I say to myself
Oh that's why that person came into my life..So my conclusion of the experience
told me the truth of the situation Does that make since.......

[buckminster fuller]

I'm confused I have always lived by the phase The truth will set you free

Maybe it should be "exposing the deceptions in your life will set you free to discover your own truth"

[blake]

.. why so may humans become more comfortable with deception than truth, and can sometimes even fear the truth.

There are so many examples to choose from, but I will go with this one.

Most young school children are taught that“ honesty is the best policy”.

But how soon do they discover, in the reality of the world of playground, or adult “powertics” (what I call politics), do they discover for themselves that that isn’t always correct.

As one lady wrote to me she said: children end up growing up thinking that lies are the truth.

Sincerely,
Mr. Davis
2/28/11


I will continue with this in piecemeal fashion Mr Davis:

There are things one speaks of, the self-deception, there are things one doesn't speak of and learns through social interaction of which trumps which. [aka social IQ]

Peer pressure is a much more powerful force than mere ideals.

The Asch Experiment


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRh5qy09nNw

1m 58s 226,529 views

Posted November 23, 2008

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon_Asch

Understand ourselves, and we can then understand one another.

Maybe then people would find themselves less under attack, reacting with defensiveness, and more open to listening to your discoveries about yourself.

An early perception was that the discovery that "Santa" wasn't real, just a deception perpetrated with good but ignorant intentions, and was the opening crack of the "Generation Gap" -- more of a gap of trust than of 'generation.'

- 58

Hello 58,

Social interaction! I could go on a long time on that one, but I am challenging myself to keep my posts as short as possible. I believe in the basics, build a sound body, and a sound mind. And“build” is the operative word. The school child’s mind must be exercised daily for critical thinking. Respectful debate needs to be encouraged, but seldom is in the public schools. What I saw in many schools seemed to be a philosophy to stress to the young mind the need for group think, and consensus, instead of creative, individual insight, and intellectual banter. The group think mentality makes it even easier to mold that, “go along to get along” mind set, in which all sorts of horrors can take place in front of a group without anyone having the self authority to do what is right. The average human can be easily controlled by peer pressure, and Madison Avenue marketing because of this group think stressed in our schools. One needs a strong mind, with critical thinking skills, along with high ethics and morals to escape from mob mentality, and peer pressure. If one wants a freer, smarter and more ethical society, it must be taught, and it is not. Most schools seem to teach mediocrity to its students while their daily patter, in deception, voices out, “we teach excellence.” I often wondered how the schools defined “excellence”, since what they seem to turn out is mediocrity, and worker bees to support “the system”. We are a dumb down society because we were molded to be that way. I salute the young parents that want better for their children, and take on the task of home schooling their children. Psychology is interesting. I love bell curves. Most people fit right in the middle of that bell, making the majority of people easy to control. Unfortunately, there will always be a few naturally inclined thinkers who do critical thinking as part of their daily thought process, without being taught. And they are looked for and if they can’t be controlled. they are marginalized, drugged, or taken out.

What I know for sure is children need to be taught critical thinking, and self authority. I see that happening successfully more in home school children than I do in the public schools.

Sincerely,
Mr. Davis
3/2/11

[blake]

Again, 58, you seem to think it doesn’t exist on earth. I am hoping it does. I do know a few humans in which it exists, but for most of the people, for most of the time, I do not believe it exists yet.

Sincerely,
Mr. Davis
2/28/11

Thanks Mr Davis:

What if the expectation of truth being found in a person, book or social group is simply a misled expectation that could lead to grief ?

ANSWER
Why would anyone have an expectation of finding truth in any person, book or social group when they are surrounded by deception? They need to first find the truth in themselves so they can recogize it outside of themselves should they be so lucky as to stumble upon it. People disappoint people everyday. Look at what is happening on this forum with Miss Celenine and Mr. Ryan. I am not sure of your point. So many things lead to grief. It is one of our basic emotions. A healthy person learns to deal with grief. or would be wise to seek out help to learn how to, or learn to get needed assistance if necessary. People have expectations everyday. People are misled everyday. People want to fiind goodness. Sadly they seldom have as high of standards for themselves in the goodness department as they do for others.



What if allowing for the bias built into us all, keeps us in dialog, avoid monologue and mere opinion ?

ANSWER
I don't think all bias is buit in. I think most of it is imprinted on us by our expereinces, diectly or indirectly. I don't understand how bias would open up a dialog. Could you give me an example? Is "mere opinion" really that much different , in some ways, from cognitive bias? Do you consider these posts monolgues or a dialog?


Would we not be encouraged to have a more critical thinking mind and take a discussion to positive conclusion of discovery for one, the other or both ?

ANSWER
I am confuses as to what you are asking? Can you please clarify the question?



Could we not continue to work on unraveling our biases and growing our awareness, even unto eternity ?

ANSWER
I don't beleive in long term therapy. I don't think it would take to eternity to break through our biases, unless you like psychoanalysis which can often, in my opinion. take ten years just to discover why you think a cigar is more than just a cigar. I am pragmatic. I like results. Short term therapy seems best for that in my opinion.- 58

What I know for sure is that you have to be your own best friend.

Sincerely,
Mr. Davis
3/2/11

[blake]

(...) you know for sure to be true.

In my humble opinion, I don't think it is possible to "be sure something is true".

I have to split the question in two: objective truth and subjective truth... and maybe also in three, with spiritual truth as a special case.

Do objective truth exist? Well that is a very delicate question. One might say that "1+1=2" is an objective truth. Is it it really? Our mathematical system is still invented by humans.

Objective truth conditions are "mind-independent" - that is, not the result of any judgements made by a conscious entity or subject. Therefore I believe it is very hard to reach, if not impossible.

Subjective truth could be anything. One might believe that "1+1=3" and no one can actually say that is wrong... because that is the perception of what is true for that individual, you might have a different perception, but it really doesn't matter because you can never prove that you are more right than the other.

Spiritual truth is a different case though. Spiritual truth is something to experience, not something to believe in. I assume joy and love can be actually experienced, if you know how to access it. Does that experience make it true? It is true as far as it comes to subjective truth, but is it also a objective truth? Well, I can't possible know!

Maybe truth is like quantum physics. If you try to measure it, the measuring process itself changes the truth. So maybe one truth exists in this exact moment writing this line ... but at the end of this line it might be something totally different! ;)

Hello InCiDeR,

Thank you for your very thought provoking post! I think you are right, by asking what type of truth: objective, subjective or spiritual, the question might be easier to answer. I am finding that many people seem to be having a hard time identifying what is truth, or what they know for sure. Maybe there is also financial truth?

What I know for sure, is that I love my children. And I take that as an objective truth, and not a spiritual truth, but it could be both!

Sincerely,
Mr. Davis
3/2/11

[kinerkid]

What I do know for sure is that life is a journey.

What I think I know is that my own growth and understanding is based on the simple, but not easy internal work I do and that the practice of that is reflected back to me in my external surroundings and interactions.

What I'd like to know is where the heck is the easy button?!?!

[eaglespirit]

Hi Blake...Wishing You Well!

please share with me something that you know for sure to be true. And something that you only think might be true; and something that you would like to know…

-something that you know for sure to be true:
...The Sun feeds Us, calms Us, energizes Us, heightens Us...We have been deceived about taking in the "direct" light from the Sun at Sunrise and Sunset!
Fully Commune with the Sun's Giving Energy at early Sunrise and/or late Sunset...look at the Sun with Your Eyes and Heart and Soul ...Wide Open...as Your Own Intuition Guides You : )
Connect with Mother Earth barefoot if You are in a warm region...Meditate...Talk to the Sun...Your Own Way from the Heart...Breathe Freely!
Simple and yet Spiritually Profound! Build Your meditation time up each sunrise and sunset in seconds/minutes as Your Heart shows the way.
If You have weak or damaged eyes simply be more Interactingly Conscious of the Life-Giving-Light around You as continually as You are able in Your Own Way...
You will expand Your Higher Rhythms!!

-something that you only think might be true:
...More and more Folks would like to connect this way but are still overcome by the fear that has been instilled in Us.

-and something that you would like to know:
...Why is the falsity and the truth not shared more openly? (this is changing now)

[blake]

What I do know for sure is that life is a journey.

What I think I know is that my own growth and understanding is based on the simple, but not easy internal work I do and that the practice of that is reflected back to me in my external surroundings and interactions.

What I'd like to know is where the heck is the easy button?!?!

Hello Kinerkid,

Thank you for posting. I have to agree; I know for sure that life is a journey!
I wish I could answer for sure where the easy button is ! But what I think I know, is that it doesn't exist most of the time, just on some rare and magical moments that make for great memories!

Sincerely,
Mr. Davis
3/3/11

[blake]

Hi Blake...Wishing You Well!

please share with me something that you know for sure to be true. And something that you only think might be true; and something that you would like to know…

-something that you know for sure to be true:
...The Sun feeds Us, calms Us, energizes Us, heightens Us...We have been deceived about taking in the "direct" light from the Sun at Sunrise and Sunset!
Fully Commune with the Sun's Giving Energy at early Sunrise and/or late Sunset...look at the Sun with Your Eyes and Heart and Soul ...Wide Open...as Your Own Intuition Guides You : )
Connect with Mother Earth barefoot if You are in a warm region...Meditate...Talk to the Sun...Your Own Way from the Heart...Breathe Freely!
Simple and yet Spiritually Profound! Build Your meditation time up each sunrise and sunset in seconds/minutes as Your Heart shows the way.
If You have weak or damaged eyes simply be more Interactingly Conscious of the Life-Giving-Light around You as continually as You are able in Your Own Way...
You will expand Your Higher Rhythms!!

-something that you only think might be true:
...More and more Folks would like to connect this way but are still overcome by the fear that has been instilled in Us.

-and something that you would like to know:
...Why is the falsity and the truth not shared more openly? (this is changing now)

Hello Eaglespirit,

Thank you for your good wishes, and I return good thoughts to you on this cold, but fine winter day.

I too know for sure that the sun can be very healing. Just reading your post motivates me to get up early tomorrow, and even in the deep snow, attempt my yoga sunrise salutation to the sun! Thank you for sharing all that.

I too would like to know why the falsity and truth are not shared more openly.

What I know for sure………… is that I love to write! Can you tell?

What I think I know……….. is that people have both good, and not so good, and everything inbetween sides to them, and frustratingly, I don’t always know how to bring out more of the good side of people when they are showing me more of their not so good side.

What I want to know? I want to know the true origin and history of humans.


Sincerely,
Mr. Davis
3/3/11

[58andfixed]

What I want to know? I want to know the true origin and history of humans.

Sincerely,
Mr. Davis
3/3/11



Nice one Blake:

I urge you to up your ante.

Examine closely how badly you want to know, to what ends you will remove your biases to discover the closest possible answer you can cope with, and DEMAND IT of The Goddess to deliver to you ASAP ! :)

The clarity of your intent, the daily commitment you invest, in combination with your effort will affect your results.

- 58

[eaglespirit]

Hi Blake...
Prompted to put this link here of some reading links I posted in #3 of the thread, About extraterrestials on Earth..can anyone tell?
I'm sure You have done Your Own research through the years...there may be more in the links here that help expand Your Own Process.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?14639-About-extraterrestials-on-Earth..can-anyone-tell&p=148029#post148029

[blake]

Hi Blake...
Prompted to put this link here of some reading links I posted in #3 of the thread, About extraterrestials on Earth..can anyone tell?
I'm sure You have done Your Own research through the years...there may be more in the links here that help expand Your Own Process.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?14639-About-extraterrestials-on-Earth..can-anyone-tell&p=148029#post148029

Hello eaglespirit,

Thanks for the links. I will check them out. Yes, I have looked into it over the years, but haven't gotten it down to what I know for sure about it, or even what I think I know about it! Have you?

Sincerely,
Mr. Davis
3/4/11

[Wub]

I know that unconditional love is its own truth. The love you feel for a child, for a partner, for a friend in distress. It can manifest itself in all sorts of ways, both internally and externally. Being in nature, smelling a flower, pondering the waves crashing on a shoreline or in the beauty of a sunset on a far distant hill.

A poet said that 'Truth is beauty' and I find that very metaphysical indeed.

[K626]

.. why so may humans become more comfortable with deception than truth, and can sometimes even fear the truth.

There are so many examples to choose from, but I will go with this one.

Most young school children are taught that“ honesty is the best policy”.

But how soon do they discover, in the reality of the world of playground, or adult “powertics” (what I call politics), do they discover for themselves that that isn’t always correct.

As one lady wrote to me she said: children end up growing up thinking that lies are the truth.

Sincerely,
Mr. Davis
2/28/11


I will continue with this in piecemeal fashion Mr Davis:

There are things one speaks of, the self-deception, there are things one doesn't speak of and learns through social interaction of which trumps which. [aka social IQ]

Peer pressure is a much more powerful force than mere ideals.

The Asch Experiment


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRh5qy09nNw

1m 58s 226,529 views

Posted November 23, 2008

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon_Asch

Understand ourselves, and we can then understand one another.

Maybe then people would find themselves less under attack, reacting with defensiveness, and more open to listening to your discoveries about yourself.

An early perception was that the discovery that "Santa" wasn't real, just a deception perpetrated with good but ignorant intentions, and was the opening crack of the "Generation Gap" -- more of a gap of trust than of 'generation.'

- 58

Hello 58,

Social interaction! I could go on a long time on that one, but I am challenging myself to keep my posts as short as possible. I believe in the basics, build a sound body, and a sound mind. And“build” is the operative word. The school child’s mind must be exercised daily for critical thinking. Respectful debate needs to be encouraged, but seldom is in the public schools. What I saw in many schools seemed to be a philosophy to stress to the young mind the need for group think, and consensus, instead of creative, individual insight, and intellectual banter. The group think mentality makes it even easier to mold that, “go along to get along” mind set, in which all sorts of horrors can take place in front of a group without anyone having the self authority to do what is right. The average human can be easily controlled by peer pressure, and Madison Avenue marketing because of this group think stressed in our schools. One needs a strong mind, with critical thinking skills, along with high ethics and morals to escape from mob mentality, and peer pressure. If one wants a freer, smarter and more ethical society, it must be taught, and it is not. Most schools seem to teach mediocrity to its students while their daily patter, in deception, voices out, “we teach excellence.” I often wondered how the schools defined “excellence”, since what they seem to turn out is mediocrity, and worker bees to support “the system”. We are a dumb down society because we were molded to be that way. I salute the young parents that want better for their children, and take on the task of home schooling their children. Psychology is interesting. I love bell curves. Most people fit right in the middle of that bell, making the majority of people easy to control. Unfortunately, there will always be a few naturally inclined thinkers who do critical thinking as part of their daily thought process, without being taught. And they are looked for and if they can’t be controlled. they are marginalized, drugged, or taken out.

What I know for sure is children need to be taught critical thinking, and self authority. I see that happening successfully more in home school children than I do in the public schools.

Sincerely,
Mr. Davis
3/2/11

In the vast majority of the school system, in England anyway, the elites and the state are interested in imprinting young minds rather than encouraging innovative or individual thought. Think as in most places you have to really go out of your way or have plenty of cash to get a real education.

cheers

K

[K626]

1) The 'Truth' doesn't exist on this Planet. We all require 'bending' of any truth to get it past our minds.

2) We are "The Problem."

3) Our Cognitive Biases keep us divided.

4) Everyone is biased. It's only a matter of some shade of grey that separated me before and after my 'awakenings,' which keeps transcending each prior 'awakening.'

5) I stay busy attempting to find more things that I didn't know that I didn't know.

- 58

- 58
Hello 58

Thank you for responding. In some ways, but not all, I agree that there is no truth on this earth, at least it doesn’t appear to be, just shades of grey connecting our different perspectives as many of us humans try to “bend” the truth past our minds. I do like how you phrased that.

Through the decades I met an array of people with different backgrounds and experiences claiming to have various powers, and knowing certain truths. Unfortunately many said they were uncomfortable with releasing their “discovered truth”, as they felt the public just wasn’t “ready” for the information. I believe that attitude they have contributes to the deception that is already entrenched in this world, rather than making a contribution to what is good and right for humans, by, in my opinion shining a light on truth. Why is it that it appears that many times we humans support blocking humans from having a chance of becoming stronger so that they can process the truth instead of having to bend it around their minds, while continuing to live with so many pockets of deception?

I also agree with that “we” are the problem. Someone wrote to me that she believed deception was programmed into us humans; and since we lived with so much deception around us that it makes seeing the truth, for humans, very challenging.

I currently believe , it is the ego of humans, with their innate tendency to limit their perspective, in other words, “I am right and you are wrong”, style of communication, combined with humans allowing themselves to live daily among so many negative deceptions , that is making humans themselves to be the major obstacle in obtaining the truth. I think that until humans decide to eliminate that “gene of deception” and many of the deceptions in the world in which they live in, evil will win out, and we will never have the truth. Instead we will continue to be only truth seekers, and never truth finders. But it appears some believe that is all we should be; that we are on earth not to know the truth, but only to search for it. I humbly disagree with that line of thinking.

Imagine what learning about the concept of “truth is like for a small child, which might explain why so may humans become more comfortable with deception than truth, and can sometimes even fear the truth. There are so many examples to choose from, but I will go with this one. Most young school children are taught that“ honesty is the best policy”. But how soon do they discover, in the reality of the world of playground, or adult “powertics” (what I call politics), do they discover for themselves that that isn’t always correct. As one lady wrote to me she said: children end up growing up thinking that lies are the truth. And I think she might very well be right.

You write: “Our Cognitive Biases keep us divided”
I believe this to be true also; however, our psychology can be molded and changed for the better to be "truth based" instead of "deception based." Unfortunately, it is the factors of deception that we allow to flourish in society that we also allow to mold our thinking, that helps keep us divided. I think a forum like this would call it, our daily feeding of “mind control” Why allow it? Why play into all the deception, when we cognitively are aware that it is going on? I m sure many on this forum have heard that energy follows thought. If one lives focusing more on the deception rather than living and focusing more on truth ( not seeking the truth) but living in truth, where will the energy of thought be found, and what is being created....... more deception or more truth?

You write, everyone is biased, and I believe that is a true statement. And I also believe that everyone seems to crave powertics in anyway they can wield it, no matter how trivial, as long as they have some power, over some person, at some point; even if the only power they have is to insult someone. I don’t think the problem of being biased is without solution if basic respect and courtesy is upheld. However, it appears that with a society immersed in deception, those healthy qualities fade fast among us all. As long as society does not honor and respect truth, more than deception, it will always treat the truth as a commodity to be manipulated, and at times chopped up in pieces to be sold to the highest bidder, or even locked up in the archives to be used only at someone’s convenience to hurt another in someway: personally, socially, politically or financially.

A person wrote me the following statement which I believe is were worth pondering over”

.“…….Although we get the verbiage that we are to be honest it is hard to learn honesty when everyone around us is lying... in the media, in our churches, in our friendships etc. What is the impact of one small lie? It teaches the receiver of the lie to accept lies as truth and it clouds the actual truth so that we learn to misread signals, body language, and the vibes, to discredit our own intuition, so when the truth does come our way they have a harder time discerning it. When your foundation is built upon lies how can anyone possibly discern the truth?.”

As you said, 58, humans are the problem. And apparently they have been the problem from the beginning of their existence. How can we as a society ever have faith in the honesty of the human race with old legends like Diogenes lasting through the ages being passed down. Diogenes is the Greek who searched the world for an honest man and I do believe he never found one. Perhaps Diogenes never found an honest person, but I do believe there are honest humans. However, the honest ones without street smarts, and discernment, usually fall into the trap of being controlled or rewired into silencing that truth.

Is truth pure and safe at any level? I like to believe it can be. But then we have some research scientists who will not always reveal the truth for various selfish or political reasons, or even threat of life. And what secrets does that vast library of the Vatican hold that for centuries have been off limits to many researchers? So if we can’t find truth in science, in politics, in money, in our families, in our friendships, with religion, in our schools, where is truth honored? Again, 58, you seem to think it doesn’t exist on earth. I am hoping it does. I do know a few humans in which it exists, but for most of the people, for most of the time, I do not believe it exists yet. What I am saying is that truth does exist among humans but not in large pockets, and that is because for whatever reason, humans seem to choose deception over truth.


I was recently asked: :
“So what is it that you fear?”

My short answer was:
I believe both evil and goodness are part of the universe, and that our job is to understand that we are to choose to be on the side of goodness, and to not contribute to the evil. Unfortunately, a lot of people do contribute to various degrees of evil but rationalize their behavior daily.

What do I fear in life? I fear the results of so many humans being dishonest and so fearful of the truth; not the personal truth of tsomeone having the combination to your safe or how they really thought Aunt Besty looks tonight, but the truth that matters in blocking out evil. Evil lives because truth has not been allowed to shine.

So, 58, a man as wise as yourself to keep discovering things that you didn't know , you didn't know, what is one question that you wish could truefully be answered?

Sincerely,
Mr. Davis
2/28/11

If you want to cut through all the ****? There is no truth. Only will to power.

K

[firstlook]

something that you know for sure to be true.

That if I learn something about anything/anyone, I always had that ability to understand, therefore I didnt actually learn anything new, I just remembered it.


something that you only think might be true

I might choose to fall in love tomorrow.


something that you would like to know

my past through a different perspective.

[blake]

Hello 58,

I truly enjoy your challenges to me! I discovered a cognitive bias in myself when I read,
“and DEMAND IT of the Goddess to deliver to you ASAP. “ My cognitive bias is telling me , “I can’t DEMAND anything from the Goddess. Maybe I can request assistance politely, but DEMAND?” If I were to DEMAND, would she not wave her wand at me and laugh... or maybe worse? Unless you are referencing the lord and lady within me, and in that case t I would just be actually demanding it of myself and my subconscious connections to the universal mind. That I could do.

You wrote:

“Examine closely how badly you want to know, to what ends you will remove your biases to discover the closest possible answer you can cope with,”

I honestly don’t think I have any biases that would stand in my way of staring this truth in the eyes. I am not of any traditional religious persuasion. So for me the information would be no different than that of a scientist observing an experiment to observe the result with no preconceive idea or investment in the results that I would have to “ cope with”. I just would like to know the truth.

Like many others, I have read various theories, and I have no vested interest in any of them being true if they are not true.

So far most things that I know for sure are things that I personally experience. So perhaps you are challenging me to have a metaphysical experience to view the true history of humans with my subconscious mind? I am not a remote view, but that is not to say I have not been without my metaphysical experiences of some interesting phenomena throughout my life................. curious experiences that begs for more questions rather than answering questions unfornuately.

You write:

“The clarity of your intent, the daily commitment you invest, in combination with your effort will affect your results”

My intent is clear but perhaps I need to be more vigilant about seeking answers daily instead in a more rhythmic pattern and cycle.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this .

Sincerely,
Mr. Davis
3/4/11

[blake]

I'm confused I have always lived by the phase The truth will set you free

When I resonate with inner feelings and facts I come to a conclusion of
the inner self truth..Negative tools thrown at me only reminds me to correct
the mistakes cuz of the distractions in life... I have always been a Truth seeker
Example When I meet some stranger get to know them help them and learn from
them i look back on the experience later and in my gut feelings I say to myself
Oh that's why that person came into my life..So my conclusion of the experience
told me the truth of the situation Does that make since.......

Hello Creative Lorraine,

Thank you for posting. I do like that phrase, “the truth will set you free.” And I think that is true most of the time. Do you think there could ever be a time where the truth might enslave us, or a time, for any reason, for us not to know to know the truth, or maybe even under certain circumstances where truth could possibly endanger us?

I think reflection: on our lives, our behavior, on our relationships, on our thoughts, on our environment, is an important tool in helping us all personally to get bigger glimpses of the truth. How wise of you to do that with people who come into your life.

Is there anything that you really wish you could know that you haven’t found the answer to yet?

Sincerely,
Mr. Davis,
3/4/11

[blake]

I'm confused I have always lived by the phase The truth will set you free

Maybe it should be "exposing the deceptions in your life will set you free to discover your own truth"

Hello buckminster fuller,

I like that! Thank you for your post.

So is there anything you can think of that you know for sure?
Sincerely,

Mr. Davis
3/4/11

[blake]

Hi Blake...
Prompted to put this link here of some reading links I posted in #3 of the thread, About extraterrestials on Earth..can anyone tell?
I'm sure You have done Your Own research through the years...there may be more in the links here that help expand Your Own Process.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?14639-About-extraterrestials-on-Earth..can-anyone-tell&p=148029#post148029

Hello eaglespirit,

Thank you for the links. I am familiar with a couple of them but will spend time exploring the others. I think the one about the Elf Transmissions looks intriquing. I will to read it over the weekend.

Sincerely,
Mr. Davis
3/4/11

[blake]

I know that unconditional love is its own truth. The love you feel for a child, for a partner, for a friend in distress. It can manifest itself in all sorts of ways, both internally and externally. Being in nature, smelling a flower, pondering the waves crashing on a shoreline or in the beauty of a sunset on a far distant hill.

A poet said that 'Truth is beauty' and I find that very metaphysical indeed.

Hello Wub,

Thank you for adding your thoughts on this. Sometimes I think that only nature will be truthful to us. What a gift she is on so many levesl. For me, I especially like to escape to nature when the world of humans gets too unruly.

What I know for sure is that a walk on the beach, especially when I am the only one there, always recharges me no matter what deadlines, or challenges I might be dealing with on any particular day. I even like it during a storm or in the snow!

Another thing I know for sure is that there is kindness in the world..... even though sometimes it doesn’t show up as often as sometimes needed.

Sincerely,
Mr. Davis
3/4/11

[blake]

Hello K626,

You wrote:

"In the vast majority of the school system, in England anyway, the elites and the state are interested in imprinting young minds rather than encouraging innovative or individual thought. Think as in most places you have to really go out of your way or have plenty of cash to get a real education."

I think that is very true, K626.

What I know for sure is that money might not bring happiness, but it sure does provide great comfort, and many real life advantages.
What I also know for sure is that we all have choices whether we have money or not, and there is always options, and more than one way of getting something done.

In my opinion, parents have a great responsiblity in supervising their children's edcuation. And I believe it is a huge strike against a child and society , when a parent turns that responsibilty over to the state. So many parents will claim they don't have a choice; but I believe they do, even though it might take a little brainstorming. creativity, and thinking outside of the box.

Sincerely,
Mr. Davis
3/4/11

[58andfixed]

You wrote:

“Examine closely how badly you want to know, to what ends you will remove your biases to discover the closest possible answer you can cope with,”

I honestly don’t think I have any biases that would stand in my way of staring this truth in the eyes.

I just would like to know the truth.

So perhaps you are challenging me to have a metaphysical experience to view the true history of humans with my subconscious mind?

You write:

“The clarity of your intent, the daily commitment you invest, in combination with your effort will affect your results”

My intent is clear but perhaps I need to be more vigilant about seeking answers daily instead in a more rhythmic pattern and cycle.

Sincerely,
Mr. Davis
3/4/11


Thanks Blake:

The "DEMAND IT" part of the exchange isn't on the expectation of what / when is to be received, but the degree of commitment which one is willing to make. Therefore, any implied biases are needed to be removed for this 'bartered event,' which is a distinctly different commitment which doubts that there are any biases remaining. :)

One either experiences an answer, or there must be something in the way -- and no other opinion, not mine & not the one of your conscious mind, would matter.

Subtle, yet necessary to experience the effect of 'jumping off of the cliff' with absolute trust. :)

'Metaphysical experience' could be some words to describe it. It is like suggesting the going to a good movie, but giving away the ending -- now what would be the fun of that experience ?

From my readings so far, I think you might be familiar with Empiricism ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empiricist

I would classify myself as a Gnostic, see the hand of man in the pages of a Bible, in the mortal need for conformity in Organized Religion, and I value personal experiences, uniqueness & unity, not uniformity.

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSnKYsdgCkY5DlVKYcAVsSKiOcZWe8GgvGJ32J6bMauVE1KwNc-Yg

- 58

[blake]

You wrote:

“Examine closely how badly you want to know, to what ends you will remove your biases to discover the closest possible answer you can cope with,”

I honestly don’t think I have any biases that would stand in my way of staring this truth in the eyes.

I just would like to know the truth.

So perhaps you are challenging me to have a metaphysical experience to view the true history of humans with my subconscious mind?

You write:

“The clarity of your intent, the daily commitment you invest, in combination with your effort will affect your results”

My intent is clear but perhaps I need to be more vigilant about seeking answers daily instead in a more rhythmic pattern and cycle.

Sincerely,
Mr. Davis
3/4/11


Thanks Blake:

The "DEMAND IT" part of the exchange isn't on the expectation of what / when is to be received, but the degree of commitment which one is willing to make. Therefore, any implied biases are needed to be removed for this 'bartered event,' which is a distinctly different commitment which doubts that there are any biases remaining. :)

One either experiences an answer, or there must be something in the way -- and no other opinion, not mine & not the one of your conscious mind, would matter.

Subtle, yet necessary to experience the effect of 'jumping off of the cliff' with absolute trust. :)

'Metaphysical experience' could be some words to describe it. It is like suggesting the going to a good movie, but giving away the ending -- now what would be the fun of that experience ?

From my readings so far, I think you might be familiar with Empiricism ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empiricist

I would classify myself as a Gnostic, see the hand of man in the pages of a Bible, in the mortal need for conformity in Organized Religion, and I value personal experiences, uniqueness & unity, not uniformity.

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSnKYsdgCkY5DlVKYcAVsSKiOcZWe8GgvGJ32J6bMauVE1KwNc-Yg

- 58

Hello 58,


The "DEMAND IT" part of the exchange isn't on the expectation of what / when is to be received, but the degree of commitment which one is willing to make.

In a sense, one could interpret the above, in the extreme, as a commitment so sacificing, as to be describing some sort of forbidden knowledge only given to those who will commit to sell their soul to the devil for this knowledge, or at the very least, forsake all of life to get this knowledge. In my opinion, and ethical philosophy, I don’t think the true objective history, and origin of humans need to be cast in this light, nor am I even suggesting you are casting it in this light. But this card has been played by many thoughout time. It is my opinion that it is okay to share knowledge, and I am depending on the strong shoulders of those who came before me, or learn faster than me, to contribute..... what they know for sure about the origin of humans, what they think they know about the origin of humans, and the questions that they still have about the origin of humans. Why is this information played with by the Vatican and other power house, or people like " Charles" who claim to have such information.

Is science still truely struggling with these theories of the objective origin of humans, or do some parts of the current systems of the world actually have the whole story, and they just aren’t sharing? And what does the average person need to do to barter a commitment in exchange for this truth?

Many seem to believe that religion is not just a way to control the masses, and limit their knowledge base, but they use it as a tool for creating cognitive biases, as well as a playground for the minds of humans to be diverted away from the objective truth. Why is the hiding of this objective truth so important? Could there be another reason besides control?


Therefore, any implied biases are needed to be removed for this 'bartered event,' which is a distinctly different commitment which doubts that there are any biases remaining.

Why should the obtainment of knowledge be a bartered event, unless someone or some organization is trying to control me? I don’t understand what these implied biases are? Is there any ethical reason for why the objective origin of humans should not be in the public domain?

One either experiences an answer, or there must be something in the way -- and no other opinion, not mine & not the one of your conscious mind, would matter.

That may be true, but I humbly question if it is? There is a difference between opinion and fact. Fact is what you know for sure and can not be disputed. I consider facts as the springboard to gaining new knowledge. That is why I always ask, what is it that I know for sure, becasue they are the facts within my knowledge base. What is it that I only think that I know, are merely strong opinions in my knowledge base that I can factor in or out as I gain more facts. What I want to know, is what my goal is after weighing all facts, and opinions at my disposal.

What I think I know is that all knowledge is in all our collective subconscious minds; and that is where, I think, the light bulb ideas or understanding comes from. When we ponder a question, depending on how strong our signal, that idea is tossed out into the collective mind of everyone, much like a spider searching for information on the web. In order to recieve information back, we need to be in receiving mode, and not turn off the computer, metaphorically speaking. The information may come through as a light bulb idea, meeting someone, be given a book, etc. I think many of us have said in the past, “ I can believe you brought that up, I was just thinking about it." Or, "I was wondering about something, and the following week I found this detailed article about it." It appears to happens to all of us.

I know for sure that the subconscious mind is extraordinary, and it can connect us to other dimensions. I do believe it is good to discipline it, and not let it run wild tossing information and energy about aimlessly. An undisipline subconcious mind can cause chaos in people's lives, because the subconscious mind can't tell the difference between something real in 3d or a mere fantasy. A quick example I often use to demostate how the mind works is to start describing a lemon to a class or an individual. I ask them to imagine holding a yellow lemon, noting its size, and feeling its texture, and weight. Then I have them smell the lemon just as they imagine cutting it in half with a sharp knife. I tell them to notice how the scent of the lemon is getting stronger as the sticky lemon juice is running over their fingers and pershaps even stinging as it runs over a paper cut. Then I ask them to pretend to bite into this lemon. At that point, I have never failed, having the individual experience a physical reaction to this pretend lemon. Their mouths are watering, or their mouth gets all puckered up. But the point is that the mind produces a physical reaction to a fantasy. The subconscious mind has difficulty distinguishing between physical 3d reality and fantasy; and this is very important to remember when working with it. That attribute can be a good and helpful thing, but it also can be a not so good thing, because it can sometimes cause self deception or even harm. That is why I believe in discipling the subconcious mind so people can better undertand, and interpret the information they get from it.

Although I find channeled information interesting, and often valuable, I give it very cautious credibility when dealing with hard facts, and objective truth. I think it is a saftey belt issue in always remembering that it can't distinguish what is real and not real in this 3d world we live in. This attribute of the subconsious mind can cause false information being percieved as true, as well as some other nasty things like creating illnesses when none actaully are there. In my opinion, one has to not just understand how to exercise and discipline their body, but they must also exercise and discipline both their conscious and subconscious mind, if they want to get the most out of life here on earth. But alas we all have human imperfections, so it is something I believe is good to strive for, and we all achieve it on various points on the bell curve. But in my humble opinion, few, if any, ever obtain the amount of actual knowledge, talent and power that they have access to, because of these multilayers and dimensions of the mind are seldom disciplined enough to work with at any meaningful level. I often wonder, with al this great potential, why as a human race, we seem to be undermining ourselves so much?


Subtle, yet necessary to experience the effect of 'jumping off of the cliff' with absolute trust.

I think sometimes it may be necessary to metaphorically “jump off a cliff” with absolute trust, but only under certain conditions. One of my favorite quotes that I often share with people who are going through the dark night of the soul, or who are backed into a corner, and are afraid to step forward, goes something like this: “when you come to the end of your rope and all seems lost, just take the next step straight ahead into that fog and know that one of two things will happen, you will either step upon solid ground, or you will be taught to fly.” I believe there are times when life must be directed like that, but, in my opinion, an individual would be setting themselves up for failure if they did that on a regular basis.

As stated I have a goal. I want to know the real origins of humans. By asking that, I am hoping people will either share what they know for sure, so I don’t have to waste time reinventing the wheel, or hope that they will share what they think they know so that I can factor their insights and perspectives into my search. I believe the true answer is in the subconscious collective, as well as in the ancient records that are forbidden to most of us. And I wonder who has been privy to these ancient records? What are the clues that have been dropped in novels, art, and other mediums? It is my opinion that this knowledge is known consciously by a few humans. It is my opinion that many humans consciously know bit and pieces of the puzzle. It is my opinion, that those who explore their subconscious mind for this material may or may not have accurate facts. I don’t believe in blind trust, in people’s conscious state, or their subconscious states. Although I understand that under certain circumstances blind trust is sometimes temporarily necessary. But why jump of a cliff with absolute trust in such a world of deception, unless that is one’s best perceived option in moving forward?


'Metaphysical experience' could be some words to describe it. It is like suggesting the going to a good movie, but giving away the ending -- now what would be the fun of that experience ?

If my goal was entertainment, I would go along with your metaphor. But my goal is light years beyond that. Finding out the objective, true origin of humans is just the first step of even deeper quests. So why waste time watching a metaphorical movie for the fun of the experience, when someone may already have solid information that would help me move more swiftly, along with others, in going deeper down the rabbit hole in order to bring about advancement, and understanding for all of us? .

From my readings so far, I think you might be familiar with Empiricism ?

Yes I am.

I would classify myself as a Gnostic, see the hand of man in the pages of a Bible, in the mortal need for conformity in Organized Religion, and I value personal experiences, uniqueness & unity, not uniformity

I have heard the term Gnostic. I associate it with Christian mysticism, although I believe the Gnostics were around in the ancient world before Christ. But I really don’t know too much about it, or even if I got that part right.

I also, do not like uniformity. I think it limits the mind, and can even limit proper action itself. I too, value personal experience. I believe it is the springboard for all valuable knowledge and understanding. Book learning and teachers can only get a person so far, and can sometimes, if not often, be just plain wrong, if not outright deception. I think there are many types of personal experiences that can be extraordinary brilliant, and eye opening, but some are more authentic or objective than others.

I believe the conscious mind is a good tool of discernment for the subconscious mind, and for the experiences and information it may bring forth. With the subconscious mind, unlimited factors come into the equation, making it is difficult to know if certain things are true, partly, true, or an outright deception. So although I use subconscious material, I never take it for “What I know for sure,” unless I can verify it in the world of 3d. The history of the origin of humans is in the world of 3d. It may have started in a different dimension, but it ended up here.

I do have a religion that I have practiced most of my life since childhood, although it is not a traditional organized one. My chosen spiritual belief system comforts me. I also find it inspirational, fun, and instructive. It is a good adjunct to my intellectual work and stablizes me when the world of humans and commerse get too crazy for me.. My religion may not have the objective true answers that I seek, but it helps me connect on a spiritual level with nature, and with both the inner mind, the inner, and outer universe and all the dimensions in between. Can my religion give me the bond a fide objective truth of the true history and origin of humans? No, but it can help gives me clues and direction. I do believe that not only personal truth exists but actual objective truth does as well. And it is the objective truth that I seek.

Sincerely,
Mr. Davis
3/5/11

[blake]

Truth is tricky.
What truth ?
The truth is in the eye of the one watching.
The mind makes up a story around it. Hmm

There is one truth and that is inside every one of us.
The own truth is what it is !

All Love

Hello Maria,

You seem so beautifully poetic.

I am a bit confused though, with the meaning of what you wrote; maybe you can help me out? You seem to define "truth" as what I would call "perspective". You wrote:

"The truth is in the eye of the one watching. The mind makes up a story around it."

I think that is beautifully said, in what we all do; but I don't think that is the objective definition of truth? It is almost like you are saying there is no objective truth just persepctives and rationalizations........"the mind makes up a story around it"

Then you write:

"There is one truth and that is inside every one of us. The own truth is what it is "

Can you share with me what this one truth inside us all is? Forgive me for not being quicker to understand your meaning.

Sincerely,
Mr. Davis
3/5/11

[Mystique]

I am only now starting to read this thread. But I thought I would share that I watched the movie "Dogville" last night - which is about a town that reflects, on a microcosmic scale, the moral decay of our society.

Since then, I have been feeling this deep shifting inside of me of what has been, up until now, the subconscious parts of me I hide from myself at all cost. This shift is allowing me to see through the shadowy figures in the corners of my mind, to the light of my values that are shining up behind them.

From the place of morals and principles, everything in my life looks clearer.

Now I am realizing that truth emerges from our "moral core" (James Horak speaks to this on the thread about split consciousness).

Truth then is Value Fulfillment.

When we sacrifice our values on the altar of fear, we lose our perceptual connection to the light that is always within us.

Like clouds blocking the Sun.

[blake]

Well, for many years I believed in a "TRUTH" worth to search for.

I didnt find it. Wot we call objectiv truth,well it takes a lot of subjectiv twistings

to make something look objective.



But I did find that I am the truth in my life.

I dont have any other truth and I dont need any other truth.

And of course my truth can be someone elses lie. I dont care.

Love and carrots.

Hello Mr Lundstrom,

So many wise words in your post. I can understand your perspective expecially when you wrote:

:for many years I believed in a "TRUTH" worth to search for.

I didnt find it. Wot we call objectiv truth,well it takes a lot of subjectiv twistings

to make something look objective."

I agree with you one hundrd pecent. I think many people who claim to have the truth, especially if they want to sell it as truth, will create a lot of subjective twistings and then try to mold it to look like the objective truth. I too have come across that more times then I want to remember. It appears to be in every level of society; and that makes for a huge tarnishing spot on many human's logic, ethics and honesty to themselves and others. Sometimes, I think it is done on purpose, but the sadness part is when an individual doesn't even realize how much rationalization they are doing by twisting subjective truth to match what they want as objective truth. Arn't you happy that you have such a strong mind that you can see through all that deception.

You seem to beleive in yourself, when you wrote,:

"But I did find that I am the truth in my life"

I think that is the most important truth to discover in life.

So if you care to share, when you were looking for the truth, exactly were you hoping to find that you never did?

Sincerely,
Mr. Davis
3/5/11

[K626]

The more I began to understand myself and the more I learned to 'let go' the futher I have travelled inside and watched my interactions with the world. "Truth" is often an moveable feast and is in the majority of scenarios, history and wider world dictated by and revised by the few at the pinnacle of power.


The search for truth in and of itself is actually pretty meaningless. The search for applications in real situations of notions of percieved truth for me is the key. It sometimes just comes down to intuition rather than anything learned. The mind has a fantastic ability to manifest and project our immediate reality and therefore I stick by my statement that Will and inner knowledge (of self) is more important (to me) than external perceived truthts.

There you have it.


Peace

K

[Maria Stade]

Truth is tricky.
What truth ?
The truth is in the eye of the one watching.
The mind makes up a story around it. Hmm

There is one truth and that is inside every one of us.
The own truth is what it is !

All Love

Hello Maria,

You seem so beautifully poetic.

I am a bit confused though, with the meaning of what you wrote; maybe you can help me out? You seem to define "truth" as what I would call "perspective". You wrote:

"The truth is in the eye of the one watching. The mind makes up a story around it."

I think that is beautifully said, in what we all do; but I don't think that is the objective definition of truth? It is almost like you are saying there is no objective truth just persepctives and rationalizations........"the mind makes up a story around it"

Then you write:

"There is one truth and that is inside every one of us. The own truth is what it is "

Can you share with me what this one truth inside us all is? Forgive me for not being quicker to understand your meaning.

Sincerely,
Mr. Davis
3/5/11

Thank you for asking Mr Davis !

Your gentleness did not pas me by unnoticed in a other thread ! Thank you.

We see the world people and happenings trough our eyes.
What we see, the mind try to explain with words and feelings that we have stored from our past (our life)
Bringing thoughts that mirror what we see.
It is our own material and has nothing to do what we experience is happening.

The one truth is that we are from the creation of source and all with everything, we are spirits having an human experience.
As we develop we will know more. The own truths is viewed from an other angel all happenings in life the experiences gained from life will be transformed to wisdom/knowledge.

Your welcome !

Namaste

[K626]

IMO the source of all spirituality comes from within us and our need to commune with nature and the universe and this moment is really basically magic for it cannot really be written and the experince is unique to all of us and it is never the same.

I mainly train myself to work with chance, it is my belief chance is the hidden language of the universe and it is all around us in many moments everyday. Once one begins to trust oneself in recognising those moments of oppurtunity they start to come thicker and faster. One can even reach a point where one can anticipate their arrival.

Peace

K

[blake]

Is the truth the known absence of a lie? Something that you know for a fact and that can be rigorously proved without a shadow of a doubt? I don't know if I have any of that. My truth is therefore, I know nothing.
What is nothing?
Is it the same as nothingness?

Hello Bowman,

Thank you for posting.

I think many people think they know a lot more than what they actually know is true for sure. And I mostly agree with your definition of the objective truth when you write:

"Something that you know for a fact and that can be rigorously proved without a shadow of a doubt"

That is how I base my knowledge on what the truth is ninety percent of the time. But sometimes a truth is so self evident, it can't be denied becasue its evidence is just as plain as the nose on your face. The American stateman, Thomas jefferson referred to such truths in the Declaration of Independence when he wrote: " We hold these truths to be self evident....." referring , of course, to unalienable rights. What he meant, was that unalienable rights do not have to be proven becasue they are so obviouly true, how could anyone deny they exist? They are self evident. I think few truths are self evident but I do believe there are self evident truths such as unalienable rights.

In an American court of law there are certain types of evidence that are just so in your face, it is automatically presumed to be true, unless rigorously challenged by another. It is called "prima facie evidence", and it is extremely difficult to challenge. I would estimate that about ten percent of what I believe to be hard fact is techniqully self evident truth. I would give the deep love that I have for my children as an example of self evident truth. Anyone who saw me with them over the years couldn't challenge my love for them; and yet how do you prove that except with prima facie self evidence.

I do challenge your your statement that you thereby claim to know nothing. I never met one human who couldn't identify some bond a fide truth. But I do beleive that many people like to ignore the truth even sometimes in your face, prima facie, self evident truth, and I always wondered why? What do you think would be a reason for someone to ignore the truth, or not wanting to know the truth?

Sincerely,
Mr. Davis
3/5/11

[blake]

something that you know for sure to be true.

That if I learn something about anything/anyone, I always had that ability to understand, therefore I didnt actually learn anything new, I just remembered it.


something that you only think might be true

I might choose to fall in love tomorrow.


something that you would like to know

my past through a different perspective.

Hello First Look,

Wow, I think that is wonderful that you know for sure that everything is just a remembering. I haven't gotten that far in my search for truth yet.

I also marvel at what you want to know. How much healthier and wiser we all could be if we had the ability, or opportunity to view our past through a different perspective.
Many times in trauma cases, there are psychological techniques used to help people view their past through a different perspective. But I think you probably meant something different ,and I think it would also be great to see our past through the perspective of another. It kind of reminds me of the old saying: " if you could only see yourself through my eyes"

I have run into people years later that I use to work or associate with, and many times I have been pleasantly surprised on their perspective of a past common experience.

Sincerely,
Mr. Davis
3/5/11

[K626]

something that you know for sure to be true.

That if I learn something about anything/anyone, I always had that ability to understand, therefore I didnt actually learn anything new, I just remembered it.


something that you only think might be true

I might choose to fall in love tomorrow.


something that you would like to know

my past through a different perspective.

Hello First Look,

Wow, I think that is wonderful that you know for sure that everything is just a remembering. I haven't gotten that far in my search for truth yet.

I also marvel at what you want to know. How much healthier and wiser we all could be if we had the ability, or opportunity to view our past through a different perspective.
Many times in trauma cases, there are psychological techniques used to help people view their past through a different perspective. But I think you probably meant something different ,and I think it would also be great to see our past through the perspective of another. It kind of reminds me of the old saying: " if you could only see yourself through my eyes"

I have run into people years later that I use to work or associate with, and many times I have been pleasantly surprised on their perspective of a past common experience.

Sincerely,
Mr. Davis
3/5/11

Ha ha!! Things were never as bad as you imagine. The brain mainly due to the way memories are stored, tends to remember those difficult moments in a very particular way. It is the job of the mind to unravel that. These are two quite seperate things IMO.

K

[Mystique]

As you said, 58, humans are the problem. And apparently they have been the problem from the beginning of their existence. How can we as a society ever have faith in the honesty of the human race with old legends like Diogenes lasting through the ages being passed down. Diogenes is the Greek who searched the world for an honest man and I do believe he never found one. Perhaps Diogenes never found an honest person, but I do believe there are honest humans. However, the honest ones without street smarts, and discernment, usually fall into the trap of being controlled or rewired into silencing that truth.

Is truth pure and safe at any level? I like to believe it can be. But then we have some research scientists who will not always reveal the truth for various selfish or political reasons, or even threat of life. And what secrets does that vast library of the Vatican hold that for centuries have been off limits to many researchers? So if we can’t find truth in science, in politics, in money, in our families, in our friendships, with religion, in our schools, where is truth honored? Again, 58, you seem to think it doesn’t exist on earth. I am hoping it does. I do know a few humans in which it exists, but for most of the people, for most of the time, I do not believe it exists yet. What I am saying is that truth does exist among humans but not in large pockets, and that is because for whatever reason, humans seem to choose deception over truth.


Sincerely,
Mr. Davis
2/28/11

Thank you for the opportunity, and the space, Mr. Davis, to exercise critical thinking. I also appreciate the time you are taking to address each person's response in a thoughtful, respectful and intelligent way. This makes discourse more in the line of the Greek square where each person gets to debate great debaters.

I take exception when I hear people talk about Humans as always being flawed - as if it's understood to be self-evident.

We do not know our human history because victors and manipulators of wars are the ones to write it and pass it on to us fact.

We are of God, or that which creates Us - not an image of, or separate from, that which creates Us.

I think that might be easier to understand from a Woman's perspective because we birth the entire Human Civilisation from our bodies. Our children ARE Us, We ARE our Mothers - with distinctions.

I think the "problem" is not the person, or the Human, but the way we have been taught, and terrorized into believing, that THAT WHICH IS CREATING US is somewhere out there, that We have to beg and plea with, through prayer and ritual and sacrifice, to have some mercy towards the suffering caused from such a mis-conception.

The fact that We emerge from Women, who emerge from Source, or the Tree of Life, was well understood and taken for granted until warriors from Sky Gods came and terrorized us into submitting to that perceptual reality. It is because it is unnatural that they had to go to such lengths to force it upon our Psyches.

War, literally, created a tear (through terror) in the fabric of our Psyches - the Unified Field if you will.

Woman, from the Divine Feminine, is the Tree of Life that bears fruit - Children, and branches out into our Family tree. It is all there in front of us and inside of us.

It is the Serpent, that is the Deceiver. "He" has Adam pointing his finger at Eve ("the woman you gave me") and Eve suffering bearing children, that we do not see His game.

From the Divine Feminine (the Sun, the Light, Photons), embodied as the Earth (the Elementals, Matter), emerges Woman (Light densified into Matter), and from woman emerges Child - all of the same Life Source. Our children are Our Bodies, are Our Souls, are Our Spirits as One expressed in the Many.

We, as Women, do this as part of Our Nature.

We give of Everything, of Ourselves. We feed Our little baby boys, Our male extensions of Ourselves, and feed that life with the juices from Our own bodies (...to then have Him grow up and act like it is a "Man's World" and he owns it, and is in control of it? RUDE!!)


Re-tread, Re-Trace everything back to the Woman, the Mother, inside everyone of Us, and We will re-thread, re-member, Our way back to the Light of the Life of the Tree - that is rooted in the Earth, and Spans out into the Infinite Universe. It is ALL HERE in front of Us to See.

THAT is the Holy Grail!!! The Vagina, the Birth Canal, the Chalice, and the Wisdom within.

(Mary Magdellan knew this, and wrote about it. That is what the Council of Nicea was gathered together to suppress - and kill everyone who dared to utter otherwise!) IMO

Do not go looking for it outside for the You that is within.

[K626]

As you said, 58, humans are the problem. And apparently they have been the problem from the beginning of their existence. How can we as a society ever have faith in the honesty of the human race with old legends like Diogenes lasting through the ages being passed down. Diogenes is the Greek who searched the world for an honest man and I do believe he never found one. Perhaps Diogenes never found an honest person, but I do believe there are honest humans. However, the honest ones without street smarts, and discernment, usually fall into the trap of being controlled or rewired into silencing that truth.

Is truth pure and safe at any level? I like to believe it can be. But then we have some research scientists who will not always reveal the truth for various selfish or political reasons, or even threat of life. And what secrets does that vast library of the Vatican hold that for centuries have been off limits to many researchers? So if we can’t find truth in science, in politics, in money, in our families, in our friendships, with religion, in our schools, where is truth honored? Again, 58, you seem to think it doesn’t exist on earth. I am hoping it does. I do know a few humans in which it exists, but for most of the people, for most of the time, I do not believe it exists yet. What I am saying is that truth does exist among humans but not in large pockets, and that is because for whatever reason, humans seem to choose deception over truth.


Sincerely,
Mr. Davis
2/28/11

Thank you for the opportunity, and the space, Mr. Davis, to exercise critical thinking. I also appreciate the time you are taking to address each person's response in a thoughtful, respectful and intelligent way. This makes discourse more in the line of the Greek square where each person gets to debate great debaters.

I take exception when I here people talk about humans as always being flawed - as if is understood to self-evident.

We do not know our human history because victors and manipulators of wars are the ones to write it and pass it on to us fact.

We are of God, or that which creates Us - not an image of, or separate from, that which creates us.

I think that might be easier to understand from a woman's perspective because we birth humans from our bodies. Our children ARE Us, ARE their mothers - with distinctions.

I think the "problem" is not the person, or the human, but the way we have been taught, and terrorized into believing, that THAT WHICH IS CREATING US is somewhere out there, or outside of us that we have to beg and plea with, through prayer and ritual and sacrifice, to have some mercy towards the suffering caused from such a mis-conception.

The fact that we emerge from women, who emerge from Source, or Tree of Life, was well understood and taken for granted until warriors from Sky Gods came and terrorized us into submitting to that perceptual reality. It is because it is unnatural that they had to go to such lengths to force it upon our Psyches.

War, literally, created a tear (through terror) in the fabric of our Psyches - the Unified Field if you will.

Woman, from the Divine Feminine, is the Tree of Life that bears fruit - children, and branches out into our family tree. It is all there in front of us and inside of us.

It is the Serpent, that is the Deceiver. "He" has Adam pointing his finger at Eve ("the woman you gave me") and Eve suffering bearing children, that we do not see His game.

From the Divine Feminine, embodied as the Earth, emerges woman, and from woman emerges child - all of the same Life Source. Our children are Our Bodies, are Our Souls, are Our Spirits as One expressed in the Many.

We do this as part of Our Nature.

We give of everything, of Ourselves. We feed our little baby boys, our male extensions of ourselves, and feed that life with the juices from our own bodies...to then have him grow up and act like it is a "Man's World"? RUDE!!

THAT is what the witch hunts, and the Dark Ages were about!!! And we haven't come out of it...Yet!!

Re-tread, Re-Trace everything back to the Woman, the Mother, inside everyone of Us, and we will re-thread, re-member, our way back to the Light of the Life of the Tree - that is rooted in the Earth, and Spans out into the Infinite Universe. It is ALL HERE in front of Us to See.

THAT is the Holy Grail!!! The Vagina, the Birth Canal, the Chalice, and the Wisdom within.

(Mary Magdellan knew this, and wrote about it. That is what the Council of Nicea was gathered together to suppress - and kill everyone who dared to utter otherwise!)

Do not go looking for it outside for the You that is within.

Some lovely images and thoughts. I'm so tempted to analyse it, but really better let it be.

Peace

K

[jorr lundstrom]

Well, for many years I believed in a "TRUTH" worth to search for.

I didnt find it. Wot we call objectiv truth,well it takes a lot of subjectiv twistings

to make something look objective.



But I did find that I am the truth in my life.

I dont have any other truth and I dont need any other truth.

And of course my truth can be someone elses lie. I dont care.

Love and carrots.

Hello Mr Lundstrom,

So many wise words in your post. I can understand your perspective expecially when you wrote:

:for many years I believed in a "TRUTH" worth to search for.

I didnt find it. Wot we call objectiv truth,well it takes a lot of subjectiv twistings

to make something look objective."

I agree with you one hundrd pecent. I think many people who claim to have the truth, especially if they want to sell it as truth, will create a lot of subjective twistings and then try to mold it to look like the objective truth. I too have come across that more times then I want to remember. It appears to be in every level of society; and that makes for a huge tarnishing spot on many human's logic, ethics and honesty to themselves and others. Sometimes, I think it is done on purpose, but the sadness part is when an individual doesn't even realize how much rationalization they are doing by twisting subjective truth to match what they want as objective truth. Arn't you happy that you have such a strong mind that you can see through all that deception.

You seem to beleive in yourself, when you wrote,:

"But I did find that I am the truth in my life"

I think that is the most important truth to discover in life.

So if you care to share, when you were looking for the truth, exactly were you hoping to find that you never did?

Sincerely,
Mr. Davis
3/5/11

Hallo Mr Davis. Im not quite sure if Im answering now wot you are asking for but if not,

rephrase your question and I will try again.

I searched for something that was true ie the truth for everyone in the relative, in 3D,

but alas, everything is changing and one mans truth is another mans lie. Behind the projector

in my self, I experience the never changing truth of the absolute. Its my experience of it. In

a way the absolut experiencing itself, consiousness experiencing itself.

Ask again if I have misinterpreted your question. Love and carrots

[K626]

My favourite philosopher......

While most of his contemporaries looked on the late nineteenth century with unbridled optimism, confident in the progress of science and the rise of the German state, Nietzsche saw his age facing a fundamental crisis in values. With the rise of science, the Christian worldview no longer held a prominent explanatory role in people’s lives, a view Nietzsche captures in the phrase “God is dead.” However, science does not introduce a new set of values to replace the Christian values it displaces. Nietzsche rightly foresaw that people need to identify some source of meaning and value in their lives, and if they could not find it in science, they would turn to aggressive nationalism and other such salves. The last thing Nietzsche would have wanted was a return to traditional Christianity, however. Instead, he sought to find a way out of nihilism through the creative and willful affirmation of life.
The Doctrine of the Will to Power

On one level, the will to power is a psychological insight: our fundamental drive is for power as realized in independence and dominance. This will is stronger than the will to survive, as martyrs willingly die for a cause if they feel that associating themselves with that cause gives them greater power, and it is stronger than the will to sex, as monks willingly renounce sex for the sake of a greater cause. While the will to power can manifest itself through violence and physical dominance, Nietzsche is more interested in the sublimated will to power, where people turn their will to power inward and pursue self-mastery rather than mastery over others. An Indian mystic, for instance, who submits himself to all sorts of physical deprivation gains profound self-control and spiritual depth, representing a more refined form of power than the power gained by the conquering barbarian.

On a deeper level, the will to power explains the fundamental, changing aspect of reality. According to Nietzsche, everything is in flux, and there is no such thing as fixed being. Matter is always moving and changing, as are ideas, knowledge, truth, and everything else. The will to power is the fundamental engine of this change. For Nietzsche, the universe is primarily made up not of facts or things but rather of wills. The idea of the human soul or ego is just a grammatical fiction, according to Nietzsche. What we call “I” is really a chaotic jumble of competing wills, constantly struggling to overcome one another. Because change is a fundamental aspect of life, Nietzsche considers any point of view that takes reality to be fixed and objective, be it religious, scientific, or philosophical, as life denying. A truly life-affirming philosophy embraces change and recognizes in the will to power that change is the only constant in the world.


K

[Mystique]

I have to split the question in two: objective truth and subjective truth... and maybe also in three, with spiritual truth as a special case.

I do not think you can split a subject from an object in the real sense of the meaning.

If we consider the possibility that this is a Holgraphic Universe, a dance of non-particle/particles and non-wave/waves, on a sub-atomic level the non-particle is experienced only if the experimenter designs the experiment to experience it. Same with experiencing a wave. Particle and wave depends on the experiment and experimenter.

Another way to say this is, if we cannot experience anything outside of our perceptions (try it - impossible), then both we and what we perceive, as well as the body we perceive from, are all part of the same perceptual experience.

I think it is more accurate to say that we make distinctions in our perceptions. But what we are distinguishing is different perspectives of same thing.

[58andfixed]

Wow Blake:

I stepped back into the kitchen and stooped some tea for this one ... :)




Hello 58,

The "DEMAND IT" part of the exchange isn't on the expectation of what / when is to be received, but the degree of commitment which one is willing to make.

In a sense, one could interpret the above, in the extreme, as a commitment so sacificing, as to be describing some sort of forbidden knowledge only given to those who will commit to sell their soul to the devil for this knowledge, or at the very least, forsake all of life to get this knowledge. In my opinion, and ethical philosophy, I don’t think the true objective history, and origin of humans need to be cast in this light, nor am I even suggesting you are casting it in this light. But this card has been played by many thoughout time. It is my opinion that it is okay to share knowledge, and I am depending on the strong shoulders of those who came before me, or learn faster than me, to contribute..... what they know for sure about the origin of humans, what they think they know about the origin of humans, and the questions that they still have about the origin of humans. Why is this information played with by the Vatican and other power house, or people like " Charles" who claim to have such information.

True, one could interpret it this way, however Occam's razor slices it much simpler.

When a price is set in the store for an item, many are available at that price, one simply needs to decide and commit to purchasing it. Just like *knowledge* by HER is always available, directly, to everyone - if they are willing to commit to getting an answer to a question they want to satisfy, without limiting expectations. Not for a 'special price,' through a 'special watch-keeper' to make available. Get used to getting *knowledge* this way for one answer, and it becomes easier to access the next answer.

Is science still truely struggling with these theories of the objective origin of humans, or do some parts of the current systems of the world actually have the whole story, and they just aren’t sharing? And what does the average person need to do to barter a commitment in exchange for this truth?

Yes science still struggles. Science has expanded and contracted its' biases and comprehension - so the understanding has slowly improved, and we clearly are not there yet. HER laws and understanding haven't changed at all, the price has continued to stay the same.

Also note that 'science' is not one organism, but a collection of individual organisms, so some will be adjusting closer to reality than others, and often as not, the orthodox are the herd furthest from it.

The 'average mortal' needs to demonstrate commitment and effort, for that is part of 'the process.' The availability of the answers has never been in question. What has changed is the individual bias, impinged by peer pressure biases, with which the questions have been approached with.

Many seem to believe that religion is not just a way to control the masses, and limit their knowledge base, but they use it as a tool for creating cognitive biases, as well as a playground for the minds of humans to be diverted away from the objective truth. Why is the hiding of this objective truth so important? Could there be another reason besides control?

There are many systems that take advantage of our weak thinking and even cultivate it. Religion, Politics & the Monetary System all rely on 'mere belief.' However it is each of us that has a 'sliver' in each of our own finger - and the various systems simply take advantage of what is entirely within our control to remove.

The question isn't one of 'is it for purposes of control,' but one of understanding the intent for the control. Understand that, and the hidden global agenda is quite easily discerned, as will the various turns of deception also become much more easily perceived.

Therefore, any implied biases are needed to be removed for this 'bartered event,' which is a distinctly different commitment which doubts that there are any biases remaining.

Why should the obtainment of knowledge be a bartered event, unless someone or some organization is trying to control me? I don’t understand what these implied biases are? Is there any ethical reason for why the objective origin of humans should not be in the public domain?

Since the discovery of sticks, stones & fire, man has relied upon the 'belief' that someone else holds the answers, and they either accept them, or leave. Enoch, Elijah and others didn't need a Church, Priest nor a Bible to access *knowledge.* We have been deceived to 'believe' it to be otherwise.

The only reason why the objective origin of humans isn't in the public domain, is the collective efforts of deception. Others have availed themselves to the best that can be comprehended, and I suspect you also could. I wouldn't want to continue perpetrating the deception you have live so far, by supplying one pearl, and helping you to avoid 'the process.'

One either experiences an answer, or there must be something in the way -- and no other opinion, not mine & not the one of your conscious mind, would matter.

That may be true, but I humbly question if it is?

It's OK to doubt. After experiencing how doubt simply adds time between the initial casual curiosity, one can more the easily move towards a full commitment to a demanded curiosity. Nothing speaks more loudly than a self-chosen experience. :)

There is a difference between opinion and fact. Fact is what you know for sure and can not be disputed. I consider facts as the springboard to gaining new knowledge. That is why I always ask, what is it that I know for sure, becasue they are the facts within my knowledge base. What is it that I only think that I know, are merely strong opinions in my knowledge base that I can factor in or out as I gain more facts. What I want to know, is what my goal is after weighing all facts, and opinions at my disposal.

I like this. All I would add is that most of us don't include personal experience as a source of evidence. :)

What I think I know is that all knowledge is in all our collective subconscious minds; and that is where, I think, the light bulb ideas or understanding comes from. When we ponder a question, depending on how strong our signal, that idea is tossed out into the collective mind of everyone, much like a spider searching for information on the web. In order to recieve information back, we need to be in receiving mode, and not turn off the computer, metaphorically speaking. The information may come through as a light bulb idea, meeting someone, be given a book, etc. I think many of us have said in the past, “ I can believe you brought that up, I was just thinking about it." Or, "I was wondering about something, and the following week I found this detailed article about it." It appears to happens to all of us.

I like to clarify "knowledge" thus.

There is "information." "Information" might be words on a page, a song, a painting, words spoken by someone. The first step is to "comprehend" the "information" and relate it to self. At that point, there is a potential for "understanding." [aka "walk in their shoes"] Replicating the "understanding," one will eventually get to a point where one "knows" that they *know.*

A collection of 'mere beliefs' is often not coherent, thus 'Cognitive Dissonance,' as the distortion is attempted to be resolved, and isn't the "Mind" or "Quality of Thinking" that 'switches on' the potential for the experience of *knowledge.*

I know for sure that the subconscious mind is extraordinary, and it can connect us to other dimensions. I do believe it is good to discipline it, and not let it run wild tossing information and energy about aimlessly. An undisipline subconcious mind can cause chaos in people's lives, because the subconscious mind can't tell the difference between something real in 3d or a mere fantasy. A quick example I often use to demostate how the mind works is to start describing a lemon to a class or an individual. I ask them to imagine holding a yellow lemon, noting its size, and feeling its texture, and weight. Then I have them smell the lemon just as they imagine cutting it in half with a sharp knife. I tell them to notice how the scent of the lemon is getting stronger as the sticky lemon juice is running over their fingers and pershaps even stinging as it runs over a paper cut. Then I ask them to pretend to bite into this lemon. At that point, I have never failed, having the individual experience a physical reaction to this pretend lemon. Their mouths are watering, or their mouth gets all puckered up. But the point is that the mind produces a physical reaction to a fantasy. The subconscious mind has difficulty distinguishing between physical 3d reality and fantasy; and this is very important to remember when working with it. That attribute can be a good and helpful thing, but it also can be a not so good thing, because it can sometimes cause self deception or even harm. That is why I believe in discipling the subconcious mind so people can better undertand, and interpret the information they get from it.

It's even bigger than that. In fact rather than attempting to grasp the subconscious, the superconscious, everything else that is unconscious, the collective unconscious, the spark of The Divine, and 'other things,' for the sake of simplicity I suggest looking at the conscious [which one CAN control] and the 'other than' conscious -- which is a much more powerful reflection of the conscious, which collectively can be further delineated -- later.

".. the universe is characterized by interconnectedness .."

http://www.physics.nyu.edu/faculty/sokal/transgress_v2/node1.html


Although I find channeled information interesting, and often valuable, I give it very cautious credibility when dealing with hard facts, and objective truth. I think it is a saftey belt issue in always remembering that it can't distinguish what is real and not real in this 3d world we live in. This attribute of the subconsious mind can cause false information being percieved as true, as well as some other nasty things like creating illnesses when none actaully are there. In my opinion, one has to not just understand how to exercise and discipline their body, but they must also exercise and discipline both their conscious and subconscious mind, if they want to get the most out of life here on earth. But alas we all have human imperfections, so it is something I believe is good to strive for, and we all achieve it on various points on the bell curve. But in my humble opinion, few, if any, ever obtain the amount of actual knowledge, talent and power that they have access to, because of these multilayers and dimensions of the mind are seldom disciplined enough to work with at any meaningful level. I often wonder, with al this great potential, why as a human race, we seem to be undermining ourselves so much?

I with you here, and will put it to different words. Self assessment is fraught with error, and channellers do speculate much more from their own mental inventions than from any 'interconnectedness.' I've been down that road & tried that out in an effort to embrace that experience, so for me it's not merely an opinion. Like a cautious conclusion based on evidence, repeated many times, one can take 'notions' and 'build' *knowledge.* One can so easily destroy & distort *knowledge* by retaining biases and inserting self-created salami. :)

Subtle, yet necessary to experience the effect of 'jumping off of the cliff' with absolute trust.

I think sometimes it may be necessary to metaphorically “jump off a cliff” with absolute trust, but only under certain conditions. One of my favorite quotes that I often share with people who are going through the dark night of the soul, or who are backed into a corner, and are afraid to step forward, goes something like this: “when you come to the end of your rope and all seems lost, just take the next step straight ahead into that fog and know that one of two things will happen, you will either step upon solid ground, or you will be taught to fly.” I believe there are times when life must be directed like that, but, in my opinion, an individual would be setting themselves up for failure if they did that on a regular basis.

Reticence is simply a reflection of unacknowledged doubt. Don't test the reluctance, and the doubt can build into a wall. It's the 'open your mind, but don't let your brains fall out' fallacy. Try it on something. Just jump! :)

Strengthening the sense of INsecurity will guarantee an experience of failure. Being comfortable with the reality that mistakes are possible only keeps one humble, and there isn't anything negative to say about humilty.

As stated I have a goal. I want to know the real origins of humans. By asking that, I am hoping people will either share what they know for sure, so I don’t have to waste time reinventing the wheel, or hope that they will share what they think they know so that I can factor their insights and perspectives into my search. I believe the true answer is in the subconscious collective, as well as in the ancient records that are forbidden to most of us. And I wonder who has been privy to these ancient records? What are the clues that have been dropped in novels, art, and other mediums? It is my opinion that this knowledge is known consciously by a few humans. It is my opinion that many humans consciously know bit and pieces of the puzzle. It is my opinion, that those who explore their subconscious mind for this material may or may not have accurate facts. I don’t believe in blind trust, in people’s conscious state, or their subconscious states. Although I understand that under certain circumstances blind trust is sometimes temporarily necessary. But why jump of a cliff with absolute trust in such a world of deception, unless that is one’s best perceived option in moving forward?

I say "Yes, the answer is out there." I've tried many times making it simple, because I sympthazied with people, and missed the understanding that many biases had then left them wondering if they should 'believe' the answer I provided. I now stand much further down the path, and simply point the way, suggesting instead "Go, discover the answer for yourself. The process is as much a part of that answer as the answer itself."

Once that answer has been experienced to satisfaction, many, many more questions will follow -- so the process will then become necessary. Right now the process simply seems to 'be in the way' of a quick answer.


'Metaphysical experience' could be some words to describe it. It is like suggesting the going to a good movie, but giving away the ending -- now what would be the fun of that experience ?

If my goal was entertainment, I would go along with your metaphor. But my goal is light years beyond that. Finding out the objective, true origin of humans is just the first step of even deeper quests. So why waste time watching a metaphorical movie for the fun of the experience, when someone may already have solid information that would help me move more swiftly, along with others, in going deeper down the rabbit hole in order to bring about advancement, and understanding for all of us? .

The process of self-enabling one-self for a process of experiencing the discoveries in the realm "I don't even know what I don't know" has been part of the grand design. Intercourse wasn't the end-game of discovery, just an urge that takes us mortals through a process that could easily be avoided. The acceptance of this 'process' should be respected and honored, just like the reading of a book or the watching of a movie instead of just peeking at the ending. There is a value for each of us to experience it. Respect this process, you respect yourself, you respect the necessity for others to experience it, and you respect Her grand design.

From my readings so far, I think you might be familiar with Empiricism ?

Yes I am.

I would classify myself as a Gnostic, see the hand of man in the pages of a Bible, in the mortal need for conformity in Organized Religion, and I value personal experiences, uniqueness & unity, not uniformity

I have heard the term Gnostic. I associate it with Christian mysticism, although I believe the Gnostics were around in the ancient world before Christ. But I really don’t know too much about it, or even if I got that part right.

Not to worry. Not only have many orthodox belief systems did much to obliterate the various & sundry forms of Gnosticism off of this ORB, that I would admit to there being more forms of Gnosticm than the number of mortals who are alive at any one point in time. At the most basic of summaries, there is a Creative Force that designed this Universe, and sourcing HER from within is the narrow path. Anything more is simply one of the various flavors, which one should expect.

I also, do not like uniformity. I think it limits the mind, and can even limit proper action itself. I too, value personal experience. I believe it is the springboard for all valuable knowledge and understanding. Book learning and teachers can only get a person so far, and can sometimes, if not often, be just plain wrong, if not outright deception. I think there are many types of personal experiences that can be extraordinary brilliant, and eye opening, but some are more authentic or objective than others.

I believe the conscious mind is a good tool of discernment for the subconscious mind, and for the experiences and information it may bring forth. With the subconscious mind, unlimited factors come into the equation, making it is difficult to know if certain things are true, partly, true, or an outright deception. So although I use subconscious material, I never take it for “What I know for sure,” unless I can verify it in the world of 3d. The history of the origin of humans is in the world of 3d. It may have started in a different dimension, but it ended up here.

I do have a religion that I have practiced most of my life since childhood, although it is not a traditional organized one. My chosen spiritual belief system comforts me. I also find it inspirational, fun, and instructive. It is a good adjunct to my intellectual work and stablizes me when the world of humans and commerse get too crazy for me.. My religion may not have the objective true answers that I seek, but it helps me connect on a spiritual level with nature, and with both the inner mind, the inner, and outer universe and all the dimensions in between. Can my religion give me the bond a fide objective truth of the true history and origin of humans? No, but it can help gives me clues and direction. I do believe that not only personal truth exists but actual objective truth does as well. And it is the objective truth that I seek.

I'm now curious about your Religion. One thing that I currently miss is the social aspect. Too few around to socialize with for the approach I discovered, which works for me. Most Organized Religions/Churches draw a firm line of dogma and acceptable interpretations. Few sit in a circle and expect one another to actively contribute in a collaborative manner, instead preferring some person to discourse from a pulpit, while they passively participate from the pews, permitting only deeper involvement in choirs or some such.

This has been quite the exercise that I don't often get to experience, other than one of my trips to the gym ... :)

- 58

[Nat_Lee]

The topic is the ''time''

1. What I already knew for sure about the topic:
When I am in the now. The present moment.

2. What I thought I knew about the topic:
When I'm interpreting something I have seen.

3. What I would like to know about a topic:
What is the futur?

[noxon medem]

Posted message is now timed out,
removed and irrelevant.

Anyone quoting it or thanking it,
feel free to remove those too.

all well,
nm

:fish2:

[Feren]

Topic: Who I am

Wht I knew: I am a consciousness
What i thought I knew: i'm an individual
What I'd like to know: what my part is in the whole.

[Kindred]

I found this yesterday, in my saved sites. I remember reading the very beginning, and thought to save it's location for future reading, as it seemed so Very 'interesting'... I finally read it completely yesterday.

With it's reading, I'm awed, amazed, humbled... and 'REBORN'.

I REMEMBER THIS.

Not ALL... but, Most.

http://ufocasebook.com/etoriginofmankind.html

I WISH TO REMEMBER MORE OF THIS, ALONG WITH MY OWN 'HISTORY'.

I'm not certain 'How' to go about this. Much Help is needed.

I've Begun my Journey with this leap in Understanding.

I Hope that Others may also Understand.

PEACE

[grapevine]

I read in Way of the Tao that "Each man must find his own truth..." which I took to mean that what I think is true is not necessarily what you think is true and vice versa. Truth is to do with (a) our perception - which is often faulty and (b) the amount of information we have at the time we judge whether something is true or not. How often have we made up our minds about something, only to get another piece of information which changes our minds completely? Someone - David Icke I think - said, "There is only information and consciousness" and nothing else exists. Consciousness and love is the same thing. Good bloke that David Icke ... :)

[blake]

I am only now starting to read this thread. But I thought I would share that I watched the movie "Dogville" last night - which is about a town that reflects, on a microcosmic scale, the moral decay of our society.

Since then, I have been feeling this deep shifting inside of me of what has been, up until now, the subconscious parts of me I hide from myself at all cost. This shift is allowing me to see through the shadowy figures in the corners of my mind, to the light of my values that are shining up behind them.

From the place of morals and principles, everything in my life looks clearer.

Now I am realizing that truth emerges from our "moral core" (James Horak speaks to this on the thread about split consciousness).

Truth then is Value Fulfillment.

When we sacrifice our values on the altar of fear, we lose our perceptual connection to the light that is always within us.

Like clouds blocking the Sun.


Hello Mystique,

Without healthy core morals, truth is buried and we as a society suffers.

You wrote:

"When we sacrifice our values on the altar of fear, we lose our perceptual connection to the light that is always within us.

Like clouds blocking the Sun"

That was so beautifully expressed and I could agree more. Thank you for your beautiful and insightful post.

Sincerely
Mr. Davis
3/6/11

[blake]

The more I began to understand myself and the more I learned to 'let go' the futher I have travelled inside and watched my interactions with the world. "Truth" is often an moveable feast and is in the majority of scenarios, history and wider world dictated by and revised by the few at the pinnacle of power.


The search for truth in and of itself is actually pretty meaningless. The search for applications in real situations of notions of percieved truth for me is the key. It sometimes just comes down to intuition rather than anything learned. The mind has a fantastic ability to manifest and project our immediate reality and therefore I stick by my statement that Will and inner knowledge (of self) is more important (to me) than external perceived truthts.

There you have it.


Peace

K

Hello 626,

The more I began to understand myself and the more I learned to 'let go' the futher I have travelled inside and watched my interactions with the world.

I believe in the saying, “first know thyself.” For me, that is the springboard for personal strength, allowing for confidence in who one is as an individual, so that individual can then be strong in being who they are while also relating kindly to others, and the outside world without being swallowed up, manipulated, or weakened by the dramas, power plays, traumas, and deceptions that take place in daily life, both in the home and in society at large.


"Truth" is often an moveable feast and is in the majority of scenarios, history and wider world dictated by and revised by the few at the pinnacle of power.


If I understand what you wrote, I agree. I think you are saying that “Truth” as a feast is something we all blindly feed off to blindly feel better about ourselves, as it is dangled before us and others, in various scenarios for control and power plays. But since “ The Truth” is used that way, it is not the “Truth”. And sadly this manipulation of the “Truth” has destroyed any true meaning or value of the “Truth” as evidenced by how those in power, across the centuries, promoted the “Truth” for their own agendas. I think what you are saying, if there was ever any real “Truth”, it has long been lost through the corruption of those who have rule the masses over the centuries. Have I understood correctly or did you expressed something different?


The search for truth in and of itself is actually pretty meaningless.


Because you believe it doesn’t exist on any level especially on the objective 3d level? For me, bond a fide Truth feeds the soul and enriches the intellect to improve all life and better relationships. Without searching and uncovering objective truth, one is always on guard for mine fields; and to my way of thinking lives a life that adds to the the already abundant corruption that buries the truth.

The search for applications in real situations of notions of percieved truth for me is the key.

Is that another way of saying to use their current laws and their systems to your own personal needs, rather than waste time in fighting over the “truth to get what is rightfully yours? There is nothing wrong with playing the system to your advantage. Everyone needs to become skilled in that. But I also believe in still picking one’s battles for the truth to at least keep total darkness from taking over goodness and the earth.

It sometimes just comes down to intuition rather than anything learned. The mind has a fantastic ability to manifest and project our immediate reality and therefore I stick by my statement that Will and inner knowledge (of self) is more important (to me) than external perceived truthts.

I think being aware of one’s environment and waiting for opportune moments to act is what keeps most of us as honest, and safe as we can be, while thriving in a very corrupt based society. The trouble with today’s world is that most people’s intuitive ability has been dulled into inaction by all the unhealthy distractions that society fosters on us all.

I enjoyed your post.
Sincerely,
Mr. Davis
3/6/11

[K626]

Will get back to you a bit later Blake. I was happy to read your observations.

cheers

K

[K626]

Blake,

Let's take a slightly different tangent.

A few moons back, I managed to talk myself into a Buddhist monastery for a few weeks and was very excited about the whole adventure. I woke early with the monks - we slept many in long warm rooms with little candles flickering in the pre-dawn mornings. I chanted before breakfast and spun the prayer wheels in order as directed. I befriended many kind people with little English.

Some of the monks who had been educated in early years in Calcutta or Uti or Shimantala spoke an excitable and passable English, but to be honest the brightness and goodwished in their eyes required little further vocal embroidery or fuss.

I remenber fondly wth a smile (even as I write this), my clumsy and pushy efforts to engage them in debates in the long silent evenings to do with truth, philosophy and sprituality. Only to be rebuffed with much laughter and grinning and endless questions about England and football (which we played a variation of on the hillsides). Long and hard they grilled me about the off side rule (which they never mastered I may add), about having my head shaved, about life in England (I must have convinced them that Surrey was some kind of paradise on earth).

After playing out this ritual of asking 'the big questions' and getting only questions in return about what I considered small matters (the football and so on and Micheal Jackson - some of the younger monks shared one cassette player)..I gave up on these rarifyied themes. I started to learn a form of self-defense they practiced and some wrestling. I worked hard going down to the village and helping the locals collect water and suchlike (I had now the glorious robes they had leant me). I was a minor celebrity and people chuckled and giggled as I passed.

The younger monks would fight a lot and laugh, they ran around in little packs and sometimes on the hillsides one may spot little groups of them in the distance upto no good and high mischief, but everything with a smile and a laugh. A lot of good spirit and a glistening vibration all around us echoed in the beauty of the temple and the smell of ancient books. The gaze of the older monks so gentle and humble, but always with a sparkle of frission of somthing in the eye. Some inner incandescence.

After my time there I remeber waving goodbye as I walked down the hill and it struck me I had forgotten all about my need for truth.


Peace and love to all

K

[blake]

IMO the source of all spirituality comes from within us and our need to commune with nature and the universe and this moment is really basically magic for it cannot really be written and the experince is unique to all of us and it is never the same.

I mainly train myself to work with chance, it is my belief chance is the hidden language of the universe and it is all around us in many moments everyday. Once one begins to trust oneself in recognising those moments of oppurtunity they start to come thicker and faster. One can even reach a point where one can anticipate their arrival.

Peace

K

Hello K626

I define spirituality as striving to understand, experience, enjoy, and honor pure goodness. I also define it as our fundamental relationship with all that naturally exists outside the world of commerce, and human constructs. So I agree that the source of all spirituality does come from within us as individuals. I believe that we choose how spiritual we are going to be. It is my opinion that every human makes the moment to moment spiritual choice of acting and living life with a pure heart, or an evil heart; and every shade of gray and white, along the continuum of those two extremes..

The purpose of life, I believe, is to create lovingly, while respecting yourself and those around you. It doesn’t matter what one creates: children, gardens, laughter, theories, ideas, music but life, in my opinion, is all about loving creations, as well as relationships; while respecting the loving creations of others, and choosing to treat others in a respectful manner.

It appears that some equate religion, or a god as spirituality. I think religion and spirituality are different things. Although a church and religion can be spiritual, sadly history shows that is not always the case. I equate spirituality as pure goodness. It is an ideal to strive for but hardly obtainable in the society we all live in. Yet, the opposite of pure goodness is pure evil; and in my opinion, there is quite a bit of that in the world today even among some religions and churches. Yet most of us struggle daily on the continuum of those two extremes. Hopefully, “good people” are always conscious of keeping closer to the point of pure goodness.

Humans are part of nature. I am wondering if that is why so many of us find such peace and comfort being in the garden, in the woods, or by the water. Nature appears to offer us a sense of belonging and comfort that seldom we find in the world of commerce. What could be purer in goodness than sitting under a tree and watching the leaves swirl about in the wind on an autumn afternoon; or the laughter of a child being pushed on a swing under a big old oak tree in the middle of summer? What I know for sure is that goodness exist in this 3d world. What I think I know is that some sort of creator, Gods/ Goddesses exists on some level. What I want to know is how to help goodness get more of a starring role on this stage of life.

You wrote:

“I mainly train myself to work with chance, it is my belief chance is the hidden language of the universe and it is all around us in many moments everyday. Once one begins to trust oneself in recognising those moments of oppurtunity they start to come thicker and faster. One can even reach a point where one can anticipate their arrival.”


I found this absolutely fascinating. Can you share further why you believe chance is the hidden language of the universe? Is it something like numbers, and cycles being the language of the universe? How does one train to work with chance? Is it kind of like not making plans and just living each day and seeing if coincidences will put you in the right place and the right time for what is in your best interest? Or is it simpler than that, the magic of just being present and aware of what is going on around you, therefore not missing opportunities floating by that are within your reach? But chance implies there is no manipulation on your part. And yet you write you can anticipate their arrival: is this through rhythm, a feeling, observing a change in the patterns or even the behavior of humans? Or do you allow your subconscios mind to read the chance and then have it consciously signal you at precisley the right time? Please share more if you can.

Sincerely,
Mr. Davis
3/6/11

[58andfixed]

"Each man must find his own truth..."

Truth is to do with (a) our perception - which is often faulty and (b) the amount of information we have at the time we judge whether something is true or not.



Nice one w1ndmill:

Here is the scientific approach to this very observation by Dr Beau Lotto - a neuro scientist.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mf5otGNbkuc

19m 128,662 views

Posted October 8, 2009

"Beau Lotto's color games puzzle your vision, but they also spotlight what you can't normally see: how your brain works. "

"This fun, first-hand look at your own versatile sense of sight reveals how evolution tints your perception of what's really out there."

Dr Lotto's web-site http://www.lottolab.org/

Just in case anyone is digesting whether perception has a big influence on how one 'sees' something. :)

- 58

[blake]

[
Hello Mystique,

you write:
I take exception when I hear people talk about Humans as always being flawed - as if it's understood to be self-evident.

Like most experiences and observations in life, it is sometimes a challenge to communicate ones true expression about something without knowing how another defines their chosen words; and even more challenging, is attempting to look at the target of topic through the same lens as the individual who is attempting to explain what they mean.
In counseling, one of the first steps in gaining trust of the client is by verbally choosing words that clearly demonstrate, to the client, that they are being heard and understood, not if they are right or wrong. Once the client feels this connection of being heard and understood, then a more therapeutic dialogue can proceed, with the client feeling safe, as they begin the process of looking at themeslves, their behavior, their perceptions and their actions. Without that first step of demonstrating an understanding, all meaningful communication breaks down, sometimes to a grinding halt.
In courts of law, lawyers can be very precise defining even the most commonly used word. Often what a common word means on the street, Black Law’s dictionary will have a very different meaning of that same word. This, of course, can easily, understandingly so, and many times deliberately so, confuse the layman. My point is that for a friendly debate, in which all involved wish to grow and learn, it can be helpful to sometimes define the words that we use.
There are adversarial debates, where the opponent’s goal is to make the other look uninformed, weak and plain wrong; and there are polite, intellectual debates to stimulate the minds of all.
So along that line of thinking, I will ponder what you actually meant when you wrote that:
“people talk about Humans as always being flawed - as if it's understood to be self-evident.”
To me, the opposite of flawed is perfection. And I have never seen perfection in any human. I sincerely ask if you have? Of course, I am always conscious of the continuum between these two extreme opposite points, and how we all are at different points on that continuum during various moments of our lives. I can only speak for myself. I know I have never reached perfection, although I strive towards it. Therefore I am imperfect, and doesn’t that therefore make me flawed in some way in various degrees? But perhaps you have a different definition or a different perspective on perfection?

We do not know our human history because victors and manipulators of wars are the ones to write it and pass it on to us fact.

I agree with that. History is rewritten constantly to fit what we want others to believe. Even within our own personal lives that is how some humans behave almost on a daily basis. Have you ever had a discussion with someone, only later to have that individual deny ever saying what they had said the day, or even the hour before? That is not so bad sometimes; as in the case if two people saying inappropriate words, and then by choosing to deny that they said the words later, or by redefining what they had said, can sometimes save the friendship, or perhaps save face for one of the individuals. But than again, this type of behavior can be costly, personally or in business, if one latter deny the words they said. Written contracts, spelling out what each party agrees to, would not be necessary if humans didn’t have a tendency to rewrite history by denying what actually transpired in order to meet their own personal needs. In other words, it is not just the victors that have this flaw; it seems to be inherent in various degrees within most humans.


We are of God, or that which creates Us - not an image of, or separate from, that which creates Us.


I don’t know for sure if that is true, but I think it might be true.I

think that might be easier to understand from a Woman's perspective because we birth the entire Human Civilisation from our bodies. Our children ARE Us, We ARE our Mothers - with distinctions.

I think the "problem" is not the person, or the Human, but the way we have been taught, and terrorized into believing, that THAT WHICH IS CREATING US is somewhere out there, that We have to beg and plea with, through prayer and ritual and sacrifice, to have some mercy towards the suffering caused from such a mis-conception.


I agree that what and how we have been taught is a huge problem, intellectually, socially, spiritually, financially, and emotionally. In my opinion, we need to bring our children up with clearer thinking, and with better morals. Today’s generations, from my perspective, seem to have grown up believing, at least in America, that it is cool to be disrespectful and irresponsible. As one of my young students once said to me, “ I don’t need ethics, I am going into business.” Where did he get thinking like that? Perhaps this very brilliant young man, as he matured also matured in the ethics department?
I believe that self sufficiency, self discipline, self responsibility is the basis for self respect and for creating a solid base for seeing through the deceptions of religions, governments, and societal manipulative controls. Are we part of God? I really don’t know. But I think if “God created us”, then indeed s/he must be an imperfect God, as her/his creations seem to be imperfect. Perhaps the workings of the universe might be perfect, but I believe whatever/whoever created me was imperfect. I can tell you for sure that my parents were imperfect, and therefore they got an imperfect me. But I strive to be as good of a person as I can be in this human condition, which is I believe is flawed. But is being flawed without its blessings? How many wonderful discoveries, or beautiful art were made, not from perfect, meticulous procedures, but from a mistake or by accident? To be flawed has its down side for sure, but it also opens up possibilities and “chance” for new direction, creations, and discovery. T


The fact that We emerge from Women, who emerge from Source, or the Tree of Life, was well understood and taken for granted until warriors from Sky Gods came and terrorized us into submitting to that perceptual reality. It is because it is unnatural that they had to go to such lengths to force it upon our Psyches.

I wish being mean and deceptive was unnatural for humans. Charles Dictions made a career writing about that aspect of being human. You seem to be saying that we had lived in paradise before being put into this hologram of controlled existence? I don’t know if that is true for sure, but I think it might be true. But then doesn’t that beg the evidence that our source is imperfect to have allowed that to happen? If we are the same as the source, how did we allow humankind to be imprisoned in this hologram of deception? If we are the same as from the source, how could any other being or entity terrorize us? Are you saying we were once as gods, like the source, until the skywarirs terrorizied us, and now control us by changing perhaps our internal blueprint into being flawed humans?

War, literally, created a tear (through terror) in the fabric of our Psyches - the Unified Field if you will.

War is a beyond horrific, and should not be; and yet, it has existed always throughout history. Why have humans gone along with this, generation after generation? There is no need for war or fighting especially if unalienable rights are honored among all humans and their governments; but sadly basic ethics, as simple as unalienable rights, the fundamental basis of all American law is not even known, let alone practiced and understood by most Americans. Americans were simply not taught this is in their schools after the Federal Reserve System came into play. How convenient that was that for the controllers of this world. This is just one more hard core example of how keeping Americans ignorant of basic rights cost them their freedom and homes. Today, on the coast of Maine, one cannot take their fishing pole, and put it in the water to catch dinner for one’s family without having the money to pay for a license first. If one can’t produce a current license, for their singular fishing pole, then they prefer you can starve rather then provide for your family from the abundance of food that the earth provides freely. And yet, the big corporation fishing trawlers, that literally rakes the fish up by the millions in one scoop, depleting the food that the whales feed on in the deep ocean, are sanctioned by the government. And by being sanctioned by the government, in all that entails, the everyday fishing families, the singular fishing person, and the whales are all being sacrificed for the few well connected. Why do humans allow this? There is so much corruption in society at every level, that it is impossible for any one individual to keep up with it all, and are often not even aware of how they are being controlled, abused and stolen from. Why do humans allow this? Whay are humans so easily fooled? Why are humans so easily manipulated? Why do humans so easily look the other way?
Lack of proper basic education is a big part of the corruption; lack of basic ethics ,and logic is a part of the corruption; lack of seeing reality for what it is, is part of the corruption; how all the corruption is interconnected is part of the corruption; and above all else ,human beings, are more flawed than perfect adds immensely to the corruption.
What I know for sure is that all human can be manipulated; ask any experimental psychologist, or whiz kid Madison Avenue marketing advertisement director, or even your local grocery store about their innocent techniques, and tools they use; and then multiply those factors by a million with those who have no ethics, and who want to control everyone else.

I don’t know for sure, but I do think the human psyche was shredded and torn as you suggest.. And a shredded or torn psyche is evidence of imperfection. I think the very imperfection of our psyche that allows for such a corrupt society, might very well be the same imperfection, probably by simple accident, to somehow fix the traumas that were allegedly created by the skywarriors.
Humans need to be taught how to stay free, and how to be a good person, as well as how to be honest with themselves and not to rationalize as much as they do. And that can be challenging considering how society functions today, especially when factoring in that many prefer not to learn about the fundamental basics of money or politics, let alone look honestly at their own actions that actually contribute to the very corruption that they speak of.

Woman, from the Divine Feminine, is the Tree of Life that bears fruit - Children, and branches out into our Family tree. It is all there in front of us and inside of us.

It is the Serpent, that is the Deceiver. "He" has Adam pointing his finger at Eve ("the woman you gave me") and Eve suffering bearing children, that we do not see His game.

From the Divine Feminine (the Sun, the Light, Photons), embodied as the Earth (the Elementals, Matter), emerges Woman (Light densified into Matter), and from woman emerges Child - all of the same Life Source. Our children are Our Bodies, are Our Souls, are Our Spirits as One expressed in the Many.

We, as Women, do this as part of Our Nature.

We give of Everything, of Ourselves. We feed Our little baby boys, Our male extensions of Ourselves, and feed that life with the juices from Our own bodies (...to then have Him grow up and act like it is a "Man's World" and he owns it, and is in control of it? RUDE!!)


In my opinion, if a son, at any age, is rude to his mother, then I ask where is the father to model the appropriate behavior of appreciation and respect to the mother. Without the appropriate role modeling by the father, or another healthy, substitute role model, the mother often has deep challenges in the area of commanding respect, especially with teenagers. Society doesn’t support it. How many children grew up watching shows similar to “married with children? Or had to witness a less than healthy marriage? Look around at what a child has been exposed to while growing up, and one will have a pretty clear picture of why they are the way they are. Unfortunately, often just sending children to public school, or putting them in daycare all day, will often overrule, eventually, the values of the parent. Public school and daycare, especially the school bus, will give children a daily learning of feasting upon the bad behavior of others that rules many of the children today.

I don’t know for sure if the biblical stories or metaphors are true or not. What I do know for sure is that all humans are valuable, both men and women. One sex is not better or more important than the other, only wired differently. It would seem to me that in the philosophy of striving for “pure goodness”, it would be wise, and in the best interest of each sex, to appreciate and acknowledge what the other sex has to offer, as well as to support each other, and not undermine each other, which appears to happen a lot in both society at large, and in the personal homes of humans, at least in America.
What I also know for sure is that women have been more than just mistreated, sacrificed, and devalued; especially when populations went from a matriarchal society to a patriarchical society. Women have suffered in this “man’s world;” and America needs to evolve in a human’s world for the practical best interest of both sexes.
Women do appear to be the greater caregiver of the sexes, and it is the responsibility of not just the men in their lives, but all of society, to demonstrate appreciation and give practical support for women involved with this life sustaining role. And when a man takes on that role of caregiver, he needs to be given the same practical support, and appreciation as any woman in that role should demand. I know for sure that too much is often asked of women. Women can not do it all, any more than men can not do it all. I believe family, as well as society at large, needs to support both sexes in doing their chosen roles, at any given moment, instead of expecting, or pressuring either sex to do it all.
It has been my observation that men are often not gentlemen much more often than women are not ladies. It has been my observation that women are often much more responsible, and self sacrificing for their children then men tend to be. That is not to say there aren’t great fathers, or that there aren’t mothers who are irresponsible, and selfish. I am saying, it would appear that there are many more mothers, than men, who seem to take the practical responsibilities of parenthood more to heart. I don’t know why that appears to be; it might be a combination of many different factors, part of the book, “The Selfish Gene, dealt with this concept. But, in my opinion, without society’s peer pressure to support women strongly in the role of caregiver, as well as their role in commerce and power, then each incoming generation will get more and more fractured, and further from the point of pure goodness. Until the home for all Americans can become both a fortress of safety, as well as a sanctuary for peace, children will never learn what they need to learn from both sexes. The home and the family is the most important anchor we as a civilization have. It is the foundation for our most intimate personal needs, and all our contributions to society at large. To use the metaphor of the divine feminine, is the home not the quintessential representation of the divine feminine, that must be respected and honored from where all life flows? I believe it is. That is where both men and women recharge to go forth into society and commerce to make their contributions. That is where the next generation is nurtured, and what they are fed will determine not only the quality of their own lives, but the strength of the family, as well as what they as adults will contribute to society, Yet look at our the homes in America, has society at large or men and women as individuals honored them as the a representation of the divine feminine in which I think they are?


Re-tread, Re-Trace everything back to the Woman, the Mother, inside everyone of Us, and We will re-thread, re-member, Our way back to the Light of the Life of the Tree - that is rooted in the Earth, and Spans out into the Infinite Universe. It is ALL HERE in front of Us to See.

THAT is the Holy Grail!!! The Vagina, the Birth Canal, the Chalice, and the Wisdom within.

(Mary Magdellan knew this, and wrote about it. That is what the Council of Nicea was gathered together to suppress - and kill everyone who dared to utter otherwise!) IMO

Do not go looking for it outside for the You that is within.
Last edited by Mystique; Yesterday at 07:22.


It is my humble opinion that balance is more of a representation of perfection than imbalance. To me a practical, well grounded, balanced individual keeps one foot in the realm of metaphysics, and the other in the world of humans.

I do not believe women are superior to men, nor are men superior to women. I believe we each have mysteries within ourselves that when combined will reveal the truth of love, responsibility and creation. But the secret is honoring and making the inside strong so that one can be strong in going outside of oneself to create more. Children as they are growing up are nurtured in the home to become strong. But it would be wrong keep them at home once they were full grown, when it is part of the cycle for them to go out to find the key to their happiness and their creations. Then they eventually retreat and create their own homes. They go within until their children need to go without to seek the key to continue the creations of what we call life.

This is all just my opinion.

Sincerely,
Mr. Davis
3/7/11

[RAKMEiSTER]

“Split the heart of the atom and within it you will find a Sun”

[blake]

My favourite philosopher......

While most of his contemporaries looked on the late nineteenth century with unbridled optimism, confident in the progress of science and the rise of the German state, Nietzsche saw his age facing a fundamental crisis in values. With the rise of science, the Christian worldview no longer held a prominent explanatory role in people’s lives, a view Nietzsche captures in the phrase “God is dead.” However, science does not introduce a new set of values to replace the Christian values it displaces. Nietzsche rightly foresaw that people need to identify some source of meaning and value in their lives, and if they could not find it in science, they would turn to aggressive nationalism and other such salves. The last thing Nietzsche would have wanted was a return to traditional Christianity, however. Instead, he sought to find a way out of nihilism through the creative and willful affirmation of life.
The Doctrine of the Will to Power

On one level, the will to power is a psychological insight: our fundamental drive is for power as realized in independence and dominance. This will is stronger than the will to survive, as martyrs willingly die for a cause if they feel that associating themselves with that cause gives them greater power, and it is stronger than the will to sex, as monks willingly renounce sex for the sake of a greater cause. While the will to power can manifest itself through violence and physical dominance, Nietzsche is more interested in the sublimated will to power, where people turn their will to power inward and pursue self-mastery rather than mastery over others. An Indian mystic, for instance, who submits himself to all sorts of physical deprivation gains profound self-control and spiritual depth, representing a more refined form of power than the power gained by the conquering barbarian.

On a deeper level, the will to power explains the fundamental, changing aspect of reality. According to Nietzsche, everything is in flux, and there is no such thing as fixed being. Matter is always moving and changing, as are ideas, knowledge, truth, and everything else. The will to power is the fundamental engine of this change. For Nietzsche, the universe is primarily made up not of facts or things but rather of wills. The idea of the human soul or ego is just a grammatical fiction, according to Nietzsche. What we call “I” is really a chaotic jumble of competing wills, constantly struggling to overcome one another. Because change is a fundamental aspect of life, Nietzsche considers any point of view that takes reality to be fixed and objective, be it religious, scientific, or philosophical, as life denying. A truly life-affirming philosophy embraces change and recognizes in the will to power that change is the only constant in the world.


K

Hello k626

I think Nietzsche has part of the picture, but not the complete picture; whoever does? Although an impressive theory, he doesn’t appear to, in my opinion, factor in any explanation for various other behaviors and motivations. It has not been my experience, or observation, that there is just one fundamental motivating engine that drives us all. Humans are different, with many variations, beyond his one variation of turning the will to power inward for self mastery. I think many people do, in various degrees, fall under the will to power theory, some quite strongly, like Hitler; and others only annoying so, like some low paid bureaucrat. But there are also many people, especially those with little power and low self esteem, who also look for avenues, even ever so small, to wield their power about. But I don’t see it as an urge to dominate, as much as an urge to say “Hey, pay attention to me. I’m important too. Stop stepping all over me.” There is a lot of emotional and mental illness in the world; that I know for sure. And it is my humble opinion that the more prone people are to the extreme, will to power singular driving motivation machine, the odds could be high they have a mental or emotional illness. I believe will to power could be one of the driving engines but hardly the only one if a person is emotionally healthy, in my opinion.

What I know for sure is that there are people who have a motivating engines driving them that is not will to power. Some of these other engines that I know exists are: pure kindness based, information based, curiosity based, logic based, joy based etc. Not everyone is Hitler. Not everyone is a sociopath. Not everyone is cruel. Not everyone wants to dominate or be associated with power. People have many things in common, but they also can be as different as night and day.

Considering the part of his theory that the only constant is that everything is changing, I can see why people might think that, but then I humbly suggest to remember the old saying, “that the more things change, the more they stay the same.”

Perhaps why some may think that the only constant is change is because they don’t pay attention or hang around long enough to see the old stuff cycle back around again? One of the patterns of the universe seems to be cycles. And cycles perpetually go round and round. Different cycles appear to have different time tables.

Some people are attracted to beliefs and/or theories that they feel comfortable with. Some people have different comfort levels, and can have their beliefs, and pillars of understanding challenged without having their world come criumbling down while behaving in an unruly, attacking manner. Some people have no beliefs, or do not adhere to any religion or theories, and are merely curious as to how other humans think. Some people just don’t care about anyone’s theory or belief system, and what may or may not be true because they are having so much fun living in the now. People are different. People have different needs at different times in their lives.

I don’t have a lot of answers. And I don’t agree with a lot of religions or philosophical theories, although I find them interesting, because I am one of those people who enjoys hearing other people’s views. That is not to say I don’t have my personal belief system, or that I don’t have my own theories of human nature and the universe. But my gut reaction to Nietzsche is that from the little you said about him, he might have had a tendency to be a pessimist. But alas ,I can’t be sure as I know nothing of his work or life except for the little you shared in your post.

As far as his belief that:

“The idea of the human soul or ego is just a grammatical fiction. What we call “I” is really a chaotic jumble of competing wills, constantly struggling to overcome one another. Because change is a fundamental aspect of life, Nietzsche considers any point of view that takes reality to be fixed and objective, be it religious, scientific, or philosophical, as life denying. A truly life-affirming philosophy embraces change and recognizes in the will to power that change is the only
constant in the world.”

I don’t know for sure if there is a human soul, although I think very well there may be. I have had personal experiences in which events in the immediate future, concerning very personal issues, were revealed to me in the middle of the day by a singular voice coming from no human. The voice that talked to me, was positioned as if there was someone sitting beside me. This is not a voice that was “inside my head”, but an actual voice “outside my head” that I heard talking directly to me, in order to inform me, in one sentence, what would soon transpire in my life. It did not happen often, but it happened often enough to catch my full attention, especially when what was specifically revealed to me was fulfilled to the T. I don’t know why I was told the things, I have my theories. But what I know for sure is that some very clear voice spoke to me on several occasions about things that I would have no way of knowing because they were of future events.
Was this competing wills? Or was this some loving energy giving me fair warning of what I about to experience?

I believe that the universe is not just physics, made up of math formulas, cycles, gases, chemical etc; but what I know fore sure is that there is some intelligence, outside of the human form, that has a personal interest in me; and I would suspect everyone else perhaps has one as well.

All the above is just my humble opinions, and experiences. I thoroughly enjoyed reading your post.

Sincerely,
Mr. Davis
3/7/11

[blake]

What I know for sure is that I know nothing for sure.

I have been touched by a man who made my heart sing. Yet, he said he felt nothing. He felt nothing for ten years.

I have been told that we resist love harder than we resist war. Sometimes that seems true.

When I was growing up, no one locked their doors in the neighborhood. There was not today's open deceit of what we have and how we earned it. We were also not branded. There was no point in lying to friends--that was why they were friends. We did not have social assets. We did not have frenemies.

People did shake hands and keep what they shoke on. When I went to college merchants had blank bank drafts and you could fill one out and it would be accepted by one and all. The idea that lying was a way of life was not a conception, certainly it wasn't an axiom.

These things are now beyond the comprehension of the young. We are told civilization itself brings war for resources and so it has always been. The city of Coral has been discovered 7,500 years old no fortifications, no signs of war or pestilence. A city of art and open trade. This is what is constantly kept out of the forefront of our minds---that it has been different. We are now worse in many ways than we ever were but we have the power to change again. That i know for sure. We have the power to change. The question is do we have the will?


Hello Write4change,

Thank you for posting. I somehow missed your post earlier. You write that what you are sure about, is that you are sure about nothing. Is there something that you would like to know or have answered?

Sincerely,
Mr. Davis
3/7/11

[blake]

The topic is the ''time''

1. What I already knew for sure about the topic:
When I am in the now. The present moment.

2. What I thought I knew about the topic:
When I'm interpreting something I have seen.

3. What I would like to know about a topic:
What is the futur?

Hello Nat_Lee,

Time is one of my favorite topics. I always felt it was very mysterious; and I have always had a facination for clocks.

An interesting book that I read about time was by Murry Hope. I think the title was, "Time, the Ultimate Energy" Intersting reading.

So you would like to know about the future. Any aspect of the future in particular? Are you more curious about the future of your personal life, or world affairs?

Sincerely,
Mr. Davis
3/7/11

[blake]

Thank you, blake, for your consistent, and consequent, postings on this forum.

This goes for all of you.
Do any of you have any idea what "the truth" realy look like ?

The reasent emotional stress and following expression of the Avalon Forum has been an
integrate part of some dramatic "invisible" developement on a methaphysical level,
directly connected to this reality, and I have been a witness to this.

Blood have been shed, bad blood, and nothing will ever be the same.
Life should be all love and laughter, but it could not, because it was not.

Now, the "dark" lord is killed, and everything reconfigured.

The Avalon Forum, and Charles, has been inspiring, and helping,
in that nasty, but necessary deed.
It would not have to happen in an ideal world, but that was not
where we lived, also not now.

You will have peace now, allthough missing a perspective.
Sorry it had to come to this.

The utmost dictator is taken out of the "game".
It is all up to you now.
There is no longer anyone else than yourself, to blame,
for whatever might happen.

This revelation makes me both laugh and cry.
It had to be, cause you, all, asked for it.

If this turn out the best for everyone, for eternity,
then thank you, C, and all.

I will return to my holiday now.

:fish2:

nm
Hello noxon medem,

Thanks for posting.

Do any of you have any idea what "the truth" realy look like ?

That is an interesting concept to ponder. I would say that truth comes in many metaphorical portraits. In my opinion, truth can often be hard to identify. Isn’t that why looking for solid evidence is so important; and isn’t that why acting always in integrity is so important, so that your claim of truth will have a better chance of being given the benefit of the doubt by those you respect?


The reasent emotional stress and following expression of the Avalon Forum has been an
integrate part of some dramatic "invisible" developement on a methaphysical level,
directly connected to this reality, and I have been a witness to this.

Like a pebble tossed into a still pond, creating rings of concentric waves, I can only imagine how the recent emotional events on Avalon have affected its metaphysical counterpart. How that metaphysical realm is directly connected to this reality concerning these issues, I do not possess the skills to read., so they remain unknown to me.

Blood have been shed, bad blood, and nothing will ever be the same.
Life should be all love and laughter, but it could not, because it was not.

Now, the "dark" lord is killed, and everything reconfigured.


Are you referring to Charles as the “dark” lord?


The Avalon Forum, and Charles, has been inspiring, and helping,
in that nasty, but necessary deed.
It would not have to happen in an ideal world, but that was not
where we lived, also not now.

What exactly was the nasty, but necessary deed?

You will have peace now, allthough missing a perspective.
Sorry it had to come to this.

Are you suggesting we lost something valuable? What would that be? Charles?

The utmost dictator is taken out of the "game".

It is all up to you now.
There is no longer anyone else than yourself, to blame,
for whatever might happen.


The above statements are extremely cryptic and somewhat ominous. Could you clarify?


This revelation makes me both laugh and cry.
It had to be, cause you, all, asked for it.


Again, the above is too cryptic for me to try and give any answer of substance to.


If this turn out the best for everyone, for eternity,
then thank you, C, and all.


Let’s create good thoughts that indeed, what has just occurred on the Avalon site will for sure turn out for the best for everyone….. Greatest blessings and protection that it does!

I will return to my holiday now.

Enjoy your fishing


Sincerely,
Mr. Davis
3/8/11

[blake]

Topic: Who I am

Wht I knew: I am a consciousness
What i thought I knew: i'm an individual
What I'd like to know: what my part is in the whole.

Hello Feren,

Thanks for posting. I have to say you asked one of the million dollar questions!

I wonder if anyone would care to share what they think: "what my part is in the whole?"

I agree that what I know for sure is that we are consciouness. I am pretty sure we are individuals . But as far as what are individuals part of the whole is ,I have no idea. I think some people might answer: "God," or, of the "collective consciouness. " But I would venture a guess, not very original or spectacular, but I would say perhaps we are just part of a larger part of ourselves. It is often spoken of that we live simutaneously in many dimensions. Somehow I think I have always existed ,and will always exist as a separate enity. Just a a guess though. I know so little about the topic. I will have to ponder the question more throughout the coming weeks, and maybe I will get a light bulb answer out of the blue! If I do I will share it on this thread.

Sincerely,
Mr. Davis
3/8/11

[Mystique]

Mr Davis, Thank you for taking all that time to reply to my post. That was very generous of you, and your time.

It is late here, I need to go to bed. But I just wanted to say that I was not implying that women are superior to men. But...if women are superior and men come from women, then both are superior so there is no superiority. It is a mute point.

What I mean is that men come from women, so a proper relationship with where he comes from, is honor to himself.

Honoring her wisdom, then, honors his. Respecting her, respects him. She is him and he is her.

There are really only differences in distinctions, not in substance, or in biological fact (i.e. there is first only the female chromosome that then becomes male - can't remember whether it is X or Y).

Then the love and appreciation becomes cyclical.

Understanding the wisdom she embodies, gives balance to the logos - the knowledge, that is gained through experience.

So what is given from her, life, comes back to her in a way that enhances that life, that then allows her to give more to life and... in an endless upward spiral.

[blake]

Mr Davis, Thank you for taking all that time to reply to my post. That was very generous of you, and your time.

It is late here, I need to go to bed. But I just wanted to say that I was not implying that women are superior to men. But...if women are superior and men come from women, then both are superior so there is no superiority. It is a mute point.

What I mean is that men come from women, so a proper relationship with where he comes from, is honor to himself.

Honoring her wisdom, then, honors his. Respecting her, respects him. She is him and he is her.

There are really only differences in distinctions, not in substance, or in biological fact (i.e. there is first only the female chromosome that then becomes male - can't remember whether it is X or Y).

Then the love and appreciation becomes cyclical.

Understanding the wisdom she embodies, gives balance to the logos - the knowledge, that is gained through experience.

So what is given from her, life, comes back to her in a way that enhances that life, that then allows her to give more to life and... in an endless upward spiral.

Hello Mystique,

Thank you for your response and clarifications, although I am still pondering a bit about some aspects of your perspectives.

I can not deny all what you write, and I am one thousand percent in recognizing, appreciating, and honoring women. Plus, I am very grateful that I didn't have the task of bearing the responsibility of birthing humans with all that hardship on the body, added life responsibilities, and complications, and everything else that is involved with giving birth to humans, not to mention the physical risks.

There is one thing that I am confused about however, and that is how you incorpoarte into your thinking process of how all comes from women and not the slightess bit from men? Overtfully, it is obvious of course, that humans are birthed from women. However, and I say this with all due respect, and I am quite sure it has been asked of you before, but is the sperm, or seed of men so insignificant? I do say women would not be able to birth anything without seed. Has the proverbial question, what came first the chicken of the egg, ever been answered? Maybe it has as I don't keep up with much in science these days. But I do have to point out the small fact that as wonderful, creative, and abundant mother earth is, what would happen to her if father sky did away with the sun? I look forward to your reply.

Sincerely,
Mr. Davs
3/9/11

[Sierra]

Hello everyone,

Just posting so I can find this thread again.

Blake, thank you for a wonderful forum, thank you.

Sierra

[Mystique]

Mr Davis, Thank you for taking all that time to reply to my post. That was very generous of you, and your time.

It is late here, I need to go to bed. But I just wanted to say that I was not implying that women are superior to men. But...if women are superior and men come from women, then both are superior so there is no superiority. It is a mute point.

What I mean is that men come from women, so a proper relationship with where he comes from, is honor to himself.

Honoring her wisdom, then, honors his. Respecting her, respects him. She is him and he is her.

There are really only differences in distinctions, not in substance, or in biological fact (i.e. there is first only the female chromosome that then becomes male - can't remember whether it is X or Y).

Then the love and appreciation becomes cyclical.

Understanding the wisdom she embodies, gives balance to the logos - the knowledge, that is gained through experience.

So what is given from her, life, comes back to her in a way that enhances that life, that then allows her to give more to life and... in an endless upward spiral.

Hello Mystique,

Thank you for your response and clarifications, although I am still pondering a bit about some aspects of your perspectives.

I can not deny all what you write, and I am one thousand percent in recognizing, appreciating, and honoring women. Plus, I am very grateful that I didn't have the task of bearing the responsibility of birthing humans with all that hardship on the body, added life responsibilities, and complications, and everything else that is involed with giving birth to humans, not to mention the physical risks.

There is one thing that I am confused about however, and that is how you incorpoarte into your thinking process of how all comes from women and not the slightess bit from men? Overtfully, it is obvious of course, that humans are birthed from women. However, and I say this with all due respect, and I am quite sure it has been asked of you before, but is the sperm, or seed of men so insignificant? I do say women would not be able to birth anything without seed. Has the proverbial question, what came first the chicken of the egg, ever been answered? Maybe it has as I don't keep up with much in science these days. But I do have to point out the small fact that as wonderful, creative, and abundant mother earth is, what would happen to her if father sky did away with the sun? I look forward to your reply.

Sincerely,
Mr. Davs
3/9/11

Mr. Davis,

Of course you are right about the importance of men, sperm and their active participation in creating life.

I tend to lean hard to the right brain, the creative, because there is such an overabundance of leaning to the left brain in our culture right now. It is my way steering the course of the relationship between the two more to the center.

If women and children were considered central to civilization, and everything revolved around the nurturing and protecting of them, the civilization would be life enhancing versus war promoting - and could endlessly advance instead of die out.

I think the Divine Feminine Principle, at the center of life, is the key to what is missing in our society and redirecting our attention to it is a win/win for everyone, and everything thing on the planet.

It is not a male versus female thing - which is dual, hierarchical, way of thinking. And you are right, I run into that a lot so it is hard to get around.

I am saying that we are all embodied in the Divine Feminine by being bodies, that come from the inside of a body, that comes from the body of Earth, that come from the body of the Universe.

Maybe it is easier to understand it if we see that in the female womb is the void that we emerge from (rather than what comes first the egg or the sperm). Both emerge from the void - which is embodied within the female body. We are kind of like Caretakers of the bridge between worlds, and Men are extremely important in that caretaking.

Understanding that allows us ALL to feel connected as family members, that are of the Earth instead of on it.

There is absolutely no disrespect, nor exclusion, to men in this - quite the contrary; it is a way to spiral back to where we came from, and out again, in an endless loop of energy that expands itself in an infinite spiral, instead of a splitting that energy into two linear forces (positive and negative) that are attracted to each other. It is a way to literally ground the two back into the Earth and out again....in the cycle of Life.

This is really important, and a sharing of my understanding of truth - not some Feminist manifesto. I really think this is key to the new paradigm shift. A way to bring the out-of-control masculine energy back into balance with its own Nature.

Does that make sense to you? I am won't be posting more on this, I just wanted to make myself clear.

[blake]

I found this yesterday, in my saved sites. I remember reading the very beginning, and thought to save it's location for future reading, as it seemed so Very 'interesting'... I finally read it completely yesterday.

With it's reading, I'm awed, amazed, humbled... and 'REBORN'.

I REMEMBER THIS.

Not ALL... but, Most.

http://ufocasebook.com/etoriginofmankind.html

I WISH TO REMEMBER MORE OF THIS, ALONG WITH MY OWN 'HISTORY'.

I'm not certain 'How' to go about this. Much Help is needed.

I've Begun my Journey with this leap in Understanding.

I Hope that Others may also Understand.

PEACE

Hello Kindred,

Thank you so much for sharing that link. As you know, the origin of humankind is what I am most interested in finding out! So I do so appreciate it when people share such interesting links like the one you did. I perused it quickly, and found it intriquing. I copied it, and will read it with more focus when I have a bit more time. I don't know why some people have such incredible experiences.

Have you ever tried hypnosis? Some people have used it to help trigger memories and metaphyical expereinces.

Have you ever experienced an unusal event that got you searching for more answers?

Sincerely,
Mr. Davis
3/9/11

[blake]

Hello everyone,

Just posting so I can find this thread again.

Blake, thank you for a wonderful forum, thank you.


Sierra

Hello Sierra,

Thank you so much for your kind thoughts. They were much appreciated.

Sincerely,
Mr. Davis
3/9/11