MERCY or FORGIVENESS which is greater?

[enoch]

Can one exist without the other?

Definition of MERCY
1
a: compassion or forbearance shown especially to an offender or to one subject to one's power; also: lenient or compassionate treatment <begged for mercy> b: imprisonment rather than death imposed as penalty for first-degree murder
2
a: a blessing that is an act of divine favor or compassion b: a fortunate circumstance <it was a mercy they found her before she froze>
3
: Compassionate treatment of those in distress <works of mercy among the poor in spirit>
— Mercy adjective
— At the mercy of
: Wholly in the power of: with no way to protect oneself against

Definition of FORGIVENESS

: The act of forgiving
1: the act of forgiving someone or something ▪ I ask (for) your forgiveness. [=I ask you to forgive me] ▪ Forgiveness of our sins
2: the attitude of someone who is willing to forgive other people ▪ she treats us with kindness and forgiveness.
Example
<I asked for forgiveness for failing to communicate properly my intentions. >

Synonyms: absolution, amnesty, pardon, remission, remittal
Antonyms: penalty, punishment, retribution

Which is greater?
I think mercy. You?

Do I rationalize to their avoidance?
I have but not to their glory. You?

Are there any consequences?
Yes sometimes it hurts, sometimes it heals. You?

What coincidental moments to their benefit have passed me by?
They flow like a river, I could just as soon number the stars.

Do you believe that the sowing of mercy and forgiveness are fruitless endeavors?
I do not. You?

[Anchor]

My first thought is forgiveness trumps everything.

When each party to a problem forgives each-other, then the wheel of karma is stopped.

Does not Mercy require forgiveness at some level?

John..

[davyj0nes]

i feel they are both the same, but if i was pressed to choose just one i'd say mercy.

[johnf]

Neither, mercy is just forgiveness in relation to a particular positions relative power. Things that are not mercy but look like it are being lenient for special favors and for appearances.
Forgiveness is the pure stuff itself, it can exist in relation to a power structure or without.
In my case I had built up such a list of harmful acts of others to me that in order to keep on living without committing violence to self and others I needed to practice forgiveness
out of necessity, prolly not the real deal but a bridge too it.
Frankly I still find it a pain in the butt sometimes.
But I am learning to forgive my self for that

[jorr lundstrom]

i have pondered a lot over this. Life has been playing with me mercyless until I had nothing left to lose.

And then I found that I was given the mercy to stay alive. To have mercy on others I first gotta

imagine that have done anything to me, as that is not the case I dont have any reason to have mercy.

Forgiveness is required towards myself from myself. Believe me I have done a lot of stupidities that has

required asking forgiveness from myself. And when I ask for it I find that Im already forgiven. But I have

found it important to do anyway.

Forgiving others is not my business.

Love and carrots

[Darla Ken Pearce]

This is a really interesting topic, I am grateful you posted it. These two are parts of the same whole but forgiveness must come first. Everything depends on our ability to forgive ourselves and others. Mercy is what we beg for when Forgiveness is not forthcoming. Many people do not realize how great is our own need for forgiveness. If we can easily forgive others ~ we are halfway there ~ and the time will always come when this gift can then be given to ourselves.

[Anchor]

Forgiving others is not my business.

Until you find out that they are all a key part of that which is not you, then ultimately you find you are one of them too and in so doing discover that we are all part of all - and we are one.

At that level forgiving yourself is like forgiving other people - and the best part is that this is what you are doing anyway!

Love and brussel sprouts

[mrmalco]

This is a deep one.

They both go to the same deep root.
Consciousness is that which recognises itself.
Love is the recognition of the same consciousness in the other as is in oneself.
Mercy is giving to the other what we know we too have need of.
Forgiveness is the same thing.

But I think forgiveness is not in itself complete because it implies that the memory of harm (whatever it was) cannot be processed and discharged.
It can. Though it's not easy; it's work. It doesn't just happen. It opens into the topic of 'understanding'.

I haven't explained this very well.
Thanks for the thread.

[Anchor]

But I think forgiveness is not in itself complete because it implies that the memory of harm (whatever it was) cannot be processed and discharged.
It can. Though it's not easy; it's work. It doesn't just happen. It opens into the topic of 'understanding'.

I haven't explained this very well.

Personally I think you did a great job.

You referred to "work" and "processing" - another word that applies in this context is healing.

My understanding is that healing and forgiveness go hand in hand with each-other, and healing cannot happen permanently unless there is forgiveness.

John..

[jorr lundstrom]

Forgiving others is not my business.

Until you find out that they are all a key part of that which is not you, then ultimately you find you are one of them too and in so doing discover that we are all part of all - and we are one.

At that level forgiving yourself is like forgiving other people - and the best part is that this is what you are doing anyway!

Love and brussel sprouts

I really love brussel sprouts, we call them brussel cabbage and rose cabbage.

Its one of my favourites too grow too. Love, thank you

[bodixa]

Forgiveness is harder. Does that make it greater?

Dunno.

Both mercy and forgiveness are me saying I am you and you are me.

Am probably not very good at either.

[crosby]

i believe that in order to have mercy on a particular matter, forgiveness must already be enveloped in the heart. you cannot truly forgive someone of an indiscretion, or have/take mercy on them, if you have no room for forgiveness. i truly believe that they go hand in hand.
warmest regards, corson

[mike1414]

Can one exist without the other?

Definition of MERCY
1
a: compassion or forbearance shown especially to an offender or to one subject to one's power; also: lenient or compassionate treatment <begged for mercy> b: imprisonment rather than death imposed as penalty for first-degree murder
2
a: a blessing that is an act of divine favor or compassion b: a fortunate circumstance <it was a mercy they found her before she froze>
3
: Compassionate treatment of those in distress <works of mercy among the poor in spirit>
— Mercy adjective
— At the mercy of
: Wholly in the power of: with no way to protect oneself against

Definition of FORGIVENESS

: The act of forgiving
1: the act of forgiving someone or something ▪ I ask (for) your forgiveness. [=I ask you to forgive me] ▪ Forgiveness of our sins
2: the attitude of someone who is willing to forgive other people ▪ she treats us with kindness and forgiveness.
Example
<I asked for forgiveness for failing to communicate properly my intentions. >

Synonyms: absolution, amnesty, pardon, remission, remittal
Antonyms: penalty, punishment, retribution

Which is greater?
I think mercy. You?

Do I rationalize to their avoidance?
I have but not to their glory. You?

Are there any consequences?
Yes sometimes it hurts, sometimes it heals. You?

What coincidental moments to their benefit have passed me by?
They flow like a river, I could just as soon number the stars.

Do you believe that the sowing of mercy and forgiveness are fruitless endeavors?
I do not. You?

to me, neither are greater than the other....they are different and equally important...

the sowing of mercy and forgiveness are not fruitless endeavors whatsoever....quite the opposite imho...

what about....acceptance

thank you for the thread

in love
mike

[Maria Stade]

I have forgiven my self for all that I have put my self trugh and all that I have kept like a bag to bring hurt or reinforce the feeling of hurt, lac,and so on.
I have made many mistakes and caused others to suffer some times for my own sake and sometimes for others.
It dose not matter what I have been trough but I know that after seeing my hurt and seeing the cause and effect and how it plays in our life,
There is forgiveness and all the judgement of others will stop.

We all have our life experiences and the way is self LOVE.

What people do they do out of lac of what they are.

I can forgive, because I know that You dont know.

We are born with amnesia of the soul.

Remember who you are and your life will be healed.

All Love

Maria :luv:

[enoch]

I was reflecting on forgiveness as being limited i.e.
Limited by the offender’s ability to perform within the structure of a perceived offense.
It seems forgiveness comes with expectations of adherence. And can more readily be used by the self serving.
Once we begin to rationalize to what extent we shall forgive and whom I think we limit our own healing process and that of others.
It appears that once we constrain our desire to forgive our hearts grow cold and judgmental. Then we can entertain thoughts of retribution within the act of forgiveness.

I do believe to forgive others we must first forgive ourselves.
It seems once we admit our own shortcomings, desires and failures it becomes necessary and expedient to forgive others. This I believe facilitates the healing process. Although this process can be severely hindered by our desire for justice lurking within the bounds of forgiveness.

Whereas mercy having no bounds is not limited by our expectations to perform.
It does not hold to an eye for an eye. But is free in the truest sense.
It appears to operate outside the constraints of legalism and justification.
And yet dwells in the deepest part of our innermost being.
So if mercy were the tree then forgiveness would be the fruit. IMHO

Avalonians thank you for your response and comments (all valid) IMHO

Grace mercy and peace to you all
Enoch

[king anthony]

One is a 'moment' while the other is 'forever'.

[enoch]

Does not Mercy require forgiveness at some level?

John..

I thought the same then doesn't forgiveness spring from mercy?




One is a 'moment' while the other is 'forever'.

Yes and as they say iron sharpens iron my friend





We all have our life experiences and the way is self LOVE.

Maria :luv:

i found love of others to be the way and self love the path

Peace enoch



But I think forgiveness is not in itself complete because it implies that the memory of harm (whatever it was) cannot be processed and discharged.


Well said
So may the two forever bound


These two are parts of the same whole but forgiveness must come first. Everything depends on our ability to forgive ourselves and others.

If we plant mercy in the garden of our heart forgiveness sprouts forth. To ourselves first that we may tend the Others