Drugs opening the conscious mind?

[11alone]

Hello everyone, Recently i saw a short video on YouTube by Graham Hancock speaking of Marijuana opening the conscious mind. Note: That I'm not encouraging people to go and try drugs, but I was just wondering if this was true?

Graham Hancock short audio/video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_mD6_oFpc0

This Link should get you there, I'm new a new member so I'm still not sure how to put videos up.

I was also wondering about the psilocybin mushrooms? I've also read somewhere a while back that reptilinas like to eat hallucinagen mushrooms, again im just wondering if this is all true?

If anyone has any answers/opinions it'd be great, and very appreciated. Thank You.

-Efren :peace:

[mrmalco]

Marijuana can open the mind ... can equally put one to sleep.
Psilocybin - don't know about the reptilians but 'people I know' always eat them when they grow in the fall. They seem to awaken the vegetable-type awareness in the body. Our circulation system is a branching capillary system, very like a tree. When the life flow in it becomes self-aware it can be deep and interesting. However people who might get freaked out by a relative absense of their normal ego-sense should avoid hallucinogens. Hallucinogens can have detrimental effects if taken by people who don't yet really know who they are. Two sons of mine went off and took such, 20 years ago when they were only 14! They both regretted it. It took them a few months to get steady again. I certainly would have opposed them doing it if I'd known. Take care.

[3optic]

Speaking as someone who has looked into the shamanic aspects of certain ethneogenic plants, and has spent (misspent ;)) some of his youth exploring this, I'll say this: There is much deeper and more lasting benefit one can make with meditation and the contemplative traditions. Psychedelics are limited and make create a crutch situation. I don't mean to denigrate any indigenous medicine men who imo have a legitimate and storied foundation from which to draw from. Marajuana is really no different and should be respected as such. It can be detrimental to overuse recreationally.

In regards to heavier ethneogens, 11alone, If you want to pursue this, I would find a respected indigenous shaman and apprentice with him. Or you can participate in a ceremony. There are energetic/esoteric risks with ingesting these substances outside of a ceremonial or ritualistic context.

[Bill Ryan]

--------

I've never taken drugs in my life, but I'd venture to say that my mind is fairly wide open. There are other techniques which work extremely well, but none of them are shortcuts.

Read the brilliant and classic THE MASTER GAME (http://amazon.com/Master-Game-Robert-S-Deropp/dp/0385286325), by Robert S. de Ropp.

The book describes (among much else) how for many first-time users of mind-expanding drugs, they find themselves propelled into an astonishing and unique experience.

The trap, de Ropp explains, is to continue taking the drug thinking that this is the path to follow. It rarely is. The internal biochemical responses become gradually more limited until one is [at least] emotionally addicted to trying to re-experience the initial breakthrough.

Here's a quote from one Amazon reviewer:


Don't let the subtitle "Transcending the drug experience" alienate those who are too young to remember psychedelia.

The Master Game is not about using drugs; it's about going beyond them to personal enlightenment.

It details the games people play, much like Toffler Eric Berne (http://www.ericberne.com/Games_People_Play.htm)] then it defines the Master Game: one in which the person is not so involved with their life that their view is blinded by personal situations, much like Dyer's observer.

If you got beyond the drugs in Castaneda, you can discover the genius of The Master Game. It is truly a book to base your attitude on.

[firstlook]

Drugs like any other object represent energy. Too much energy consumption is the thing to watch out for with any intake.

That said, To each their own path. The mind is a wonderful journey.

Drugs that open the doors of the subconscious take great discipline. "Know thy self" is never more important then when you are experiencing new territories. You are an explorer. Know what you are capable of and what you are not.

I have always preferred Cannabis over alcohol. Whats nice about this vice is that It works to balance the bodies chemical process long after use. "Cannabinoids are stored in the body lipids and are slowly released into the blood after self-administration has stopped."

Peace :)

[shiva777]

I have tripped a lot ..Datura,Ayahuasca,salvia...etc,etc..in the past the veils were much denser and these trips sometimes helped me to see through them more easily...now that the veils are so thin,you can experience the same things much more easily through meditation..unless you are doing intense preparation and ritual with your drug experiences I would strongly suggest NOT doing them at this time...most drug experiences just send you in to the astral realms-4d and there is chaos in the astral at this time of rapid change and cosmic openings..those who hold the most light are those who the negative astral entities feed on first so if you are not developed psychically you are risking alot by tripping at this time

considering the energies coming in to the planet at this time..that NEED to be integrated in to our nervous systems,neurology and DNA..NOW would be a good time to give the drugs a rest..even pot messes with your nervous system.

Those starseeds who are AWARE realise that our genetic coding is specifically designed to synthesise these energies and ground them in to the earths grids so they become more easily available to the masses.The energies coming in now are already stressing peoples nervous systems,drugs don't help in the long run..natural or synthetic.

[vibrations]

I never used any drug and I don't mind if people use them. But I believe that any overdose is dangeorus. Marijuana is known neuron killer and produces a mamory gaps, bigger and bigger which eventualy can lead to Skizofreniya. I treated people wiyth this problem. So, too much is too much.

And I agree with Bill, there are a lot of non violent techniques to open your mind. The problem with drugs is that they open some channels without any control, so you never know where you go.

[Nairnia]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12616543


Cannabis use 'raises psychosis risk' - study


Using cannabis as a teenager or young adult increases the risk of psychosis, a report suggests.

The study published in the British Medical Journal involved tracking 1,900 people over a period of 10 years.

Although the link between cannabis and psychosis is well-established, it had been unclear whether cannabis triggers the disorder.

[Lunar]

I'm really interested in this topic too, as I'm just reading Graham Hancock's Supernatural. Drugs can indeed open your conscious mind - they can also do alot of damage of course.

My personal experience with dope is that it opens multiple streams of consciousness but on a cerebral level not a spiritual level, for me at least. It also opens you up to talking complete drivel all night too! Ecstasy was also very spiritual - feeling a profound sense of oneness with the world and if I hugged a tree the rush of energy I got was amazing - I could really feel its being and life - it used to freak my friends out. I agree hallucinogens can be very harmful and risky and if you were to commune with plants to open consciousness perhaps do it under the guidance of a shaman.

Also, youtube Bruce Parry's Tribe - he had an experience with Ibogaine - very interesting. Some scholars believe it is the forbidden fruit of the garden of eden. Knowledge = power.

Anyway, don't get me wrong I talk all those experiences were in my youth and for recreational purposes and I wouldnt do it again for those reasons but I would to expand my mind as I find it difficult to sit still and meditate. I have tried to astrally project for years but just get stuck to the ceiling, seeing darkness and hearing a horrid screaming noise. So I had been researching Salvia Divinorum but I also think that I should persevere with meditation, yoga etc. Thanks for recommending the book Bill, I'll add it to my list.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

I'd also add that ecstasy has been shown to deplete one's dopamine by quite alot. A low dopamine threshold is implicated in alzheimers and Parkinsons..Keith Richards does look a bit shakey :-)

[mrmalco]

Yes I remember The Master Game, excellent book, I used to skive off from work at the end of the 60s and sit and read it in Kensington Gardens - showing your age there Bill - or ... me showing mine.

[Lost Soul]

Yes they can, but no you shouldn't.

Relying on drugs puts one on the wrong path to enlightenment. In fact, drugs have resulted in many taking the path to destruction. The longer, harder and slower path through mediation is superior.

BTW, I've never taken "recreational" drugs but also believe they should not be illegal. If someone wants to flush their lives down the toilet, so be it. However, society shouldn't have to pick up the tab (ambulance, hospital, recovery or rehabilitation). I can't see losing my civil rights because of the "war on drugs."

[Hawkwind]

Marijuana can definitely have positive short term effects, but most of the people I know who have used it over an extended period of time have become psychologically addicted to it. The end result seems to me about the same as addiction to television, ie. people spending time zoned out and not being terribly productive. I had some extremely growthful experiences in my 20s with psychedelics, but it was definitely a case of diminishing returns. Also, as shiva777 points out, there is so much craziness already going on in even our normal reality, now may not be the best time to take mind altering substances and begin exploring altered states of consciousness.

[Lunar]

Drugs are bad umokay. If people want to use drugs they shouldn't be accused of flushing their lives down the toilet. This is also cultural - look at the rubbish and anti depressants drug companies pedal. No one rushes out to condemn this as this is culturally 'acceptable', as is tobacco, tea, coffee, chocolate, some vitamin pills that work like hormones etc etc. Yes there are great dangers in using drugs and many negatives that can never be denied. Surely the positives and negatives can be explored in this thread without the spiritual use of plants being completely demonised.

[Lost Soul]

Lunar - you made a good point. If some part of a plant is used as part of a shamanistic ritual, and the subject is under supervision of a shaman, then it can be part of the spiritual journey.

Most modern folks aren't on the spiritual path and don't seek spiritual enlightenment. They seek their high and the consequences be d*mned. Many have flushed their lives down the toilet and bring suffering to others (family, friends and people whom they cheat, lie or steal from).

[firstlook]

Most modern folks aren't on the spiritual path and don't seek spiritual enlightenment. They seek their high and the consequences be d*mned. Many have flushed their lives down the toilet and bring suffering to others (family, friends and people whom they cheat, lie or steal from).

This of course is not the drugs fault. Many can control their emotions and have great times with various substances.

This issue isn't about negative or positives. But experience and guiding those experiences.

You cant do that in a culture that condemns the substance as "not worth it".

The simple truth is that they are.

[Lunar]

Lost Soul - thank you. Yes you are right alot of people take drugs recreationally or to forget etc etc. I think society is at fault and how it views and labels drugs - if the use of plants and herbs were used more medicinally as part of our culture and brought to a wider audience there would be more balance to the recreational and addictive behaviour that goes with it. A big culprit for the West's perverse relationship with drugs are the pharmaceutical companies and FDA as well as the Royal College of Physicians who were very active during the witch hunts and condemning and banning all healing substances for "lay doctors" and even midwives. For all those bad experiences families of addicts and addicts themselves experience it would be a case of throwing the baby out with the bathwater to permanently label drugs as bad, dangerous etc as has been done in the past. It is our relationship with them that much change. Education is a great idea as we could have a chance of developing a proper relationship with herbs and plants.

[DeDukshyn]

--------

I've never taken drugs in my life, but I'd venture to say that my mind is fairly wide open. There are other techniques which work extremely well, but none of them are shortcuts.

Read the brilliant and classic THE MASTER GAME (http://amazon.com/Master-Game-Robert-S-Deropp/dp/0385286325), by Robert S. de Ropp.

The book describes (among much else) how for many first-time users of mind-expanding drugs, they find themselves propelled into an astonishing and unique experience.

The trap, de Ropp explains, is to continue taking the drug thinking that this is the path to follow. It rarely is. The internal biochemical responses become gradually more limited until one is [at least] emotionally addicted to trying to re-experience the initial breakthrough.

Here's a quote from one Amazon reviewer:


Don't let the subtitle "Transcending the drug experience" alienate those who are too young to remember psychedelia.

The Master Game is not about using drugs; it's about going beyond them to personal enlightenment.

It details the games people play, much like Toffler Eric Berne (http://www.ericberne.com/Games_People_Play.htm)] then it defines the Master Game: one in which the person is not so involved with their life that their view is blinded by personal situations, much like Dyer's observer.

If you got beyond the drugs in Castaneda, you can discover the genius of The Master Game. It is truly a book to base your attitude on.

If I could add an anecdote to support what your are saying here Bill, I have had my fair share of experiences with substance induced altered states of consciousness, and I am very appreciative of what those experiences have added to my life. Way back in the day (about 10+ years ago) I got a bit into the "rave" scene and back in those days MDMA was breaking (well its been around forever but not common until this time frame) onto the scene (the real stuff, not all that mixed up crap they call ecstasy these days). I did it a few time, and it became very obvious that this could never be sustained. But what it DID do was allow me to have an experience of complete "connectedness", "love" for self and others, and complete "fearlessness" - even the tossing out of all acquired subconscious fears, which left me in a state of complete bliss; and from these experiences I realized that this state was attainable without substances because what it did was the exact same result that practicing advanced spiritual techniques gives. That gave me a well defined "target" to reach for in my personal spiritual life - through following advanced spiritual concepts. I still get the "tingles" the waves feverish vibration intensity washing through my body, but now they are induced the the expansion of my consciousness - not through any substance - yet the similarities are uncanny. IMHO drugs can provide new perspectives - but they need to be left at that, addiction, whether physical, psychological, or just plain habitual, are very detrimental to the mind and the body. I am not advocating them, nor condemning them, just sharing a personal experience that I think will end up ringing true for most as well.

[Lunar]

You can become addicted to anything - look how crazily people behave when they are in love - sometimes love itself has been labelled in science as an addiction. I'd say my experiences with MDMA are very similar to yours and to what other people report - perhaps that ubiquity has something to say. I get the same tingling from yoga - you can feel the kundalini moving up your spine and feel a very real natural high. All ways are gateways - i have underdone the yoga and gotten really bad sciatica. Everything can be a risk. Buddha attained Nirvana with meditation etc but left his kids and wife at home whilst he undertook his journey.

I meant to write "overdone" - I have not done my yoga for about six months so perhaps that was my subconscious trying to tell me something !! ;)

[firstlook]

I think the argument between "supporters" and "Voices of concern", is what is the definition of addiction? What is the schedule?

How do we define between those who become addicted and those who dont? This may sound like an easy question, but its not.

I have talked about the subjective view of functionality with many friends, and from my point of view, You have to know the individual to discern whether they are addicted. You have to know if they are on THEIR path. I find the debate from both sides stems from many philosophical definitions about a functional individual. Some are assumptions, some are valid.

It delves into the realm of subjectivity. Most people have preconceived notions on what a productive lifestyle entails, in a capitalist society. I have known "addicts" and real addicts. This is an issue that i see and should be looked at always. But I also know "addicts" that live a more sustainable and loving lifestyle then 99% of the society. Its truly an interesting subject when people look at the details of this topic.

All in all, I think the discussion in Mainstream society needs to be thrust out into the open even more. Besides the wonderful benefits of the marijuana plant, the issue of putting people in cages for its use is one of the greatest crimes against the consciousness movement.

[Lunar]

There is also another level to this too - is addiction physical or psychological? Both? Neither? Is OCD same as addiction? Is ritual and repetitive behavior born from this? Is possible to have positive addictions?

[daledo]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12616543


Cannabis use 'raises psychosis risk' - study


Using cannabis as a teenager or young adult increases the risk of psychosis, a report suggests.

The study published in the British Medical Journal involved tracking 1,900 people over a period of 10 years.

Although the link between cannabis and psychosis is well-established, it had been unclear whether cannabis triggers the disorder.

According to wiki psychosis means abnormal condition of the mind, and is a generic psychiatric term for a mental state often described as involving a "loss of contact with reality".

Who has the right to say that someone's reality is better than another? Most doctors are all in it together to keep people in their reality. NOT ME. I chose to wake up and get away from any reality that a pill pushing doctor is trying to push. Doctors rarely do anything anymore but push drugs that would not be needed if they didn't make natural substances illegal.

[str8thinker]

As I see it (not taking such drugs), the issue revolves around one's ability to control drug effects. If a particular drug heightens one's awareness and one is able to control its effects at a particular dosage level, well and good. But if the drug ends up controlling you, that's not good. Don't fall for the line of reasoning "If a little is good, a lot must be wonderful".

There are plenty of natural 'drugs' in our bodies such as endorphins, dopamine and oxytocin that can require as much discipline to control as anything we introduce from outside. Our advantage is that we are born with control over their release, right from the start.

[thunder24]

Everyones chemistry is different. One substance will have the same effect but at different intensity's. But a chemical is a chemical is a chemical. Too much sugar, nicotine, barium, salt, all will give different results.

[DeDukshyn]

Well a tad off topic, but here's a fact about exactly how deadly maraijuana is for those concerned:

Deaths in USA caused by legal prescription drugs per year on average = 270,000
Deaths in USA caused by pot (without aggravating factors) on average = 0

I don't make the stats I just report them ;-) these are just statistics - take from it what it is worth to you.

Addiction is an interesting thing lunar, but we'd be going way off topic to cover that here, but I'd have a load to say about that as well ;-)

[BMJ]

Hi 11alone,
Do not even consider it!

I have seen the affects of ice, speed, marijuana and other drugs on many people. If you start taking drugs all you will manage to do is create for yourself an addiction which will be the centre of your life, nothing else will matter, and you will loose everything, family, friends and any hope of a future.

So do not even entertain the idea of trying drugs. Leave it alone!

[DeDukshyn]

As I see it (not taking such drugs), the issue revolves around one's ability to control drug effects. If a particular drug heightens one's awareness and one is able to control its effects at a particular dosage level, well and good. But if the drug ends up controlling you, that's not good. Don't fall for the line of reasoning "If a little is good, a lot must be wonderful".

There are plenty of natural 'drugs' in our bodies such as endorphins, dopamine and oxytocin that can require as much discipline to control as anything we introduce from outside. Our advantage is that we are born with control over their release, right from the start.

That sounds pretty dead on in my opinion ...

[DeDukshyn]

Hi 11alone,
Do not even consider it!

I have seen the affects of ice, speed, marijuana and other drugs on many people. If you start taking drugs all you will manage to do is create for yourself an addiction which will be the centre of your life, nothing else will matter, and you will loose everything, family, friends and any hope of a future.

So do not even entertain the idea of trying drugs. Leave it alone!

100% tue (about only creating an addiction)if you are completely weak and use drugs to escape life .. but use is not necessarily abuse .. but it is a fine line. As with everything you do, there are risks. I have had some friends who went down a dark downward spiral with some nasty addictions, but I also know some extremely respectable and succesful, kind, intelligent people that like to smoke some pot now and then too - it really is about the individual - not the drugs - its not fair to paint everyone with a very broad brush.

[blackgaius34]

I had my first OBE using a "non FDA Approved" substance. It's what started the avalanche of new experiences that lead me to Avalon. I dare say nothing compared to the feeling...or rather lack of feeling yet still pure bliss of not having flesh wrapped around and limiting your consciousness. I'd say if you're not careful you can very easily and quickly lose yourself in if you don't have the presence of mind to realize and accept what is REALLY happening in such a state. This is the deep nature of addiction I think. Luckily for me I had the good sense to listen to the thoughts going on around me and think/ask a question. In response someone/something that was right there with me (higher self maybe?), answered me and then gently put me back "on the ground". It took me a few days to realize I had not been hallucinating. Since then I've felt a presence a couple of times when I'm the only one in the room. Nothing scary, just seemingly someone being watchful. I am now trying to learn how to get back "out there" without drugs and picking up quite a lot from you guys along the way ;)

So. If you're going to do it, be careful, have a trusted bud with you and above all else make sure you have control of your fears or are at least self-aware enough recognize what they are. Also don't be surprised if after such an experience you find you are no longer 'alone'. (Law of Attraction, onceyouseethemtheyseeyou kinda thing) Beyond that, once you do (or maybe don't) have the experience you think you're after, don't tempt fates. Do it once and then go home. It may be that what you're doing is not the "gateway" that was meant for you to use to find your path.

[Romanna]

In the 60s psychiatrists/psychologists were given LSD to do research with. Alpert who became Ram Dass, along with Timothy Leary, used a lot of LSD. He really liked what it did for his consciousness. However, no matter how much he used he could not keep the experience. He ultimately went to India and met his "Guru" and found other ways to get there.

Stan Grof, a psychiatrist, also was given LSD to experiment with. When LSD was taken away he found another way to achieve the same experience with a breathing technique.

Whether using a substance "thins the veil" I don't know but it at least can give you an experience. There are certainly a number of shamanic traditions that use substances to give experiences. However, as a general rule, I believe that whenever you use a substance outside of yourself you are giving the power to the substance. I have a particular preference for practices that develops one's mind to achieve states of consciousness rather than looking outside oneself because you take yourself wherever you go!

[slipknotted]

charlie sheen anyone ?

[darkstar]

I may be in a complete minority, here, but has anyone else considered the possibility that drugs do not give you any kind of genuine spiritual experience whatsoever?

I have never taken drugs before, so I cannot comment on people's individual experiences but, from an outsider's perspective, saying that hallucinogenic drugs, etc, open your conscious mind sounds preposterous. I know people who have used drugs, and some of them have told me they were absolutely certain that they were being chased by enormous spiders. Rationally, spiders the size of cars do not exist, but they were 'real' for this person who saw them. Does that mean that they genuinely saw those spiders, or does it mean that their brain function was simply 'messed up' for a period of time?

I went to see Stuart Wilde in London a few years ago because I was interested in his ideas on spirituality. But then, towards the end of the lecture, after talking about an experience where he was able to see 'black demons' around him, he started talking about a drug that he used in order to be able to see them. He lost all credibility, for me, in that one moment: all of the things he was seeing were facilitated by hallucinogenic drugs.

With regards to cannabis, okay it is said to relax you but is that not because it slows down your brain function and therefore your entire central nervous system? Can artificially slowing everything down ever be 'good' for you?

I just do not see the benefits of drug-taking, medicinal or otherwise. That is not to say I look down on anyone who takes them; each to their own.

I do not mean to criticise anyone; I am merely looking at this from a logical perspective. Perhaps drugs are giving people a distorted view of what 'spirituality' is.

[BMJ]

Hi DeDukshyn,
Point taken about marijuna.

A strong personality or or not you have no assurances that you will not become an addict even after taking your first hit. About control what control do you have against a substance that can become instantly addictive?

I don't agree that there is a fine line because every time they use it the user is playing russian roulette. That's because the user does not know what the drug is made off, secondly you don't know its strength of what your taking and so you don't know how you are going to react. And neither are words of assurance from a friend that "he's got good stuff" or "I trust that dealer" insurance against a bad outcome.

Yes dramatic but true.

Regarding marijuna, most stuff these days is hydroponically grown, and very potent. Although I don't think it can become addictive. But having said that you could become schziophrenic if you smoke enough of the stuff, and consequently spend the rest of you like on medication and trying to copy with your thoughts, lack of memory and other personalities.

So is there really any control or fine line, please.

[Humble Janitor]

I never used any drug and I don't mind if people use them. But I believe that any overdose is dangeorus. Marijuana is known neuron killer and produces a mamory gaps, bigger and bigger which eventualy can lead to Skizofreniya. I treated people wiyth this problem. So, too much is too much.

And I agree with Bill, there are a lot of non violent techniques to open your mind. The problem with drugs is that they open some channels without any control, so you never know where you go.

I'm not buying what you're saying. I know long-time users of marijuana who are not schizophrenic. These are people who've smoked every day for an extended period of time. They don't seem to have gotten any dumber either.

The drug war is a huge profit machine for those in charge of enforcing the laws. It's too bad that most tend to believe the worst when they read about a certain substance.

[Humble Janitor]

I may be in a complete minority, here, but has anyone else considered the possibility that drugs do not give you any kind of genuine spiritual experience whatsoever?

I have never taken drugs before, so I cannot comment on people's individual experiences but, from an outsider's perspective, saying that hallucinogenic drugs, etc, open your conscious mind sounds preposterous. I know people who have used drugs, and some of them have told me they were absolutely certain that they were being chased by enormous spiders. Rationally, spiders the size of cars do not exist, but they were 'real' for this person who saw them. Does that mean that they genuinely saw those spiders, or does it mean that their brain function was simply 'messed up' for a period of time?

I went to see Stuart Wilde in London a few years ago because I was interested in his ideas on spirituality. But then, towards the end of the lecture, after talking about an experience where he was able to see 'black demons' around him, he started talking about a drug that he used in order to be able to see them. He lost all credibility, for me, in that one moment: all of the things he was seeing were facilitated by hallucinogenic drugs.

With regards to cannabis, okay it is said to relax you but is that not because it slows down your brain function and therefore your entire central nervous system? Can artificially slowing everything down ever be 'good' for you?

I just do not see the benefits of drug-taking, medicinal or otherwise. That is not to say I look down on anyone who takes them; each to their own.

I do not mean to criticise anyone; I am merely looking at this from a logical perspective. Perhaps drugs are giving people a distorted view of what 'spirituality' is.

Having experimented liberally over the years, I can say that certain substances make life enjoyable again. No such thing as giant spiders but there is a general feeling of calm and peace and it's easier to sleep as the nerves are calmed.

Always a risk of overdoing them but if you have enough control over how you imbibe, then it should be no issue.

[11alone]

Marijuana opened my mind, I believe, which began my awareness and led me to be open minded. Very thankful for your opinion, best wishes.

[11alone]

Marijuana opened my mind, I believe, which began my awareness and led me to be open minded. Very thankful for your opinion, best wishes.

[Icecold]

It gave me the giggles so I stopped it.

[GoldenYears]

IceCold....
Everything is funnier when you smoke pot!

***********************

*Grandma Hat On* Kids, do not use drugs!


*Grandma Hat Off*

I was a teenager in the 1970's....so there was a LOT of pot smoking and use of mind-altering drugs on my part. I had my first child at 19, so the usage stopped after that. I have to say that I never had any bad experiences with any of it (ok, there WAS that one time somebody slipped me some pcp...not a good thing!)

I found out really quickly that you needed the right type of atmosphere and the right people with you to make the experience worthwhile. Although I had psychic skills since I was a kid, those times of hallucinagenic drug induced mind expansion gave me a window into what my ablities were and led to my seeking of a greater understanding of what this existence is all about. It opened a doorway, so to speak.

I can now meditate and get almost the same kind of effects and experiences as when I used drugs.

[Steph]

Interesting topic, interesting perspectives. I have tried a few different drugs in my youth (I was a child of the 80's and the rave generation). Strangely, my drug taking experiences (mushrooms, lsd, ecstacy and marijuana) were all with highly intelligent friends who all held very respectable jobs; accountants, lecturers, researchers etc etc., We did this purely on a recreational level, several times. We tried it, enjoyed it and then left it alone. As others have said, there is a thin line between use and abuse. I wouldn't advocate these drugs to anyone, particularly those with an addictive nature.

Anyway, back to topic... I remember my accountant friend and I taking some LSD one sunny afternoon, we were sitting in his garden just appreciating the warmth of the sun on our faces. My friend was a very logical person, very hard-working and ambitious, he drove a flash car and had a nice house - you could say he was ruled by his ego. About 30 mins after the LSD begun to take effect; I heard him singing just like a 5 year old kid would do. I couldn't believe my ears, here was this grown man singing away merrily to a....fuschia bush. I looked at this pretty shrub and we could both see it almost dance, it was so alive and beautiful. Each flower, leaf and branch seemed to positively scream life. It was amazing to hear him sing like that as it was so unlike him. The ego must have been having an extended lunch break that afternoon :)

I can't seem to find a video link for this anywhere but I remember watching a BBC documentary about young man suffering from Parkinson's Disease. He was in a wheelchair, unable to walk but whenever he took an ecstasy tablet he could do the most amazing things.

Here's the link http://http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2000/ecstasyagony.shtml

[jorr lundstrom]

Having worked as a nurse in heavy psychiatry and with drog abusers for 30 years

I have seen a lot. Open your mind, yeah...............................

I consider it as dangerous as the pretty little game below. Love and carrots



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqakCa-MysE

[dan i el]

I took in a lot of Mescaline once and lay on a beach in the night but it was a safe environment too with a sitter. The sound of the ocean was phenomenal and the stars in the night sky I have never seen twinkle brighter. Another time on Mescaline I saw a spinning wormhole spiral galaxy forming floating in space within the room I was standing in. I knew it "wasn't really there" but nonetheless it was impressive and exciting... Salvia D put me in contact with entities once briefly and the first time I smoked a potent concentrate I experienced what is commonly referred to by psychonauts as the/an ego death experience. Datura and Mandrake have never seemed appealing.

I have a bunch of dried, preserved and legal entheogens here ranging from nDMT containing Jurema root to little known Tageta Lucidia but in all honesty have not felt any draw to imbibing any of them for some years...some of them are probably losing potency, nevertheless, they are there if ever sought for.

Though,it is easier to agree that it is "better" to reach altered states of consciousness through mediatation, mantra, breathing et al when one has already run the gauntlet of the psychedelic visionary experience previously.

Marijuana in many ways could be viewed as being practically culturally analogous with alcohol now.

psychosis can result from alcohol too! And in terms of recreational abuse and social crutches they both can function as such.

IMHO cannabis has a cornucopia of medical application and that is not to be sniffed at either...alcohol is good for sterilizing wounds.

[Steph]

Having worked as a nurse in heavy psychiatry and with drog abusers for 30 years

I have seen a lot. Open your mind, yeah...............................

I consider it as dangerous as the pretty little game below. Love and carrots



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqakCa-MysE

Jorr - I hear you. I don't have the benefit of your experience to doubt you. I do wonder though if the people you helped to treat were just casual users who were unlucky or they were slightly unstable mentally to begin with? Either way, I was talking to my stepson just a few weeks ago on this subject. He is an athlete who has never taken drugs but he was curious. Who's to say if he were to try a psychotropic drug that it wouldn't effect him mentally in a negative way. I told him straight up - not to try them even though we both knew that was hypocritical of me given my past experiences. Yes indeed, I'm a hypocrit.

[jorr lundstrom]

No thats my point of view too. But as on the video, you dont know if there is a bullet.

1968 flower power yeah I was in it too. Put it down 1975. In rather good shape. LOL

Many of my school mates didnt make it. I have friends that has made it from 1968 and

are still on drugs. Not the brightest today though, but wot can you expect if you turn your

brain into a walnut. The problem is that nobody knows who can handle it and who can not.

We have wardens in Sweden filled with sunday smokers who never returned from their first

experiences. Probably astray in remote galaxies. My view is that life is too precious to take

unnecessary chances. Meditation take you to the same experiences and beyond. Love

[Carmody]

If you get past your ego, your high will be far greater than any drug can give you. Permanent, 24/7. IME.

[greybeard]

My own experience is that my first drink of alcohol produced an unbelievable high.
All inhibitions left, fear went, I could be me.
I did not care what people thought. I did not do anything outrageous I did not have much a small bottle of lager did it.
I spent quite a few yeas after that searching for the same high it never happened.
I became addicted to the stuff.

After getting sober, I had one experience in particular on an Ashram that lasted days.
It was far beyond the drug induced one.
I saw the light in everyone I was love on two legs.
It comes back occasionally unasked for it just arrives.
Guess what no hangover no withdrawal it is the real deal
Namaste

[Icecold]

Hi DeDukshyn,
Point taken about marijuna.

A strong personality or or not you have no assurances that you will not become an addict even after taking your first hit. About control what control do you have against a substance that can become instantly addictive?

I don't agree that there is a fine line because every time they use it the user is playing russian roulette. That's because the user does not know what the drug is made off, secondly you don't know its strength of what your taking and so you don't know how you are going to react. And neither are words of assurance from a friend that "he's got good stuff" or "I trust that dealer" insurance against a bad outcome.

Yes dramatic but true.

Regarding marijuna, most stuff these days is hydroponically grown, and very potent. Although I don't think it can become addictive. But having said that you could become schziophrenic if you smoke enough of the stuff, and consequently spend the rest of you like on medication and trying to copy with your thoughts, lack of memory and other personalities.

So is there really any control or fine line, please.

I read an article about Mary Jane that made the point that if you start using before 17 or 18, before the abstract brain is developed, then there is a risk of mental illness. Whereas if you start using after the abstract brain has developed, the risk is almost nil. In my experience, this has been true.

As far as addiction goes. No way is it addictive. I stopped using the stuff in one go, never had any pangs, I was amazed how easy it was to give up. I was a surfer from the late 60s through to the 1990s. and i can say that its the drug of choice in the surfing community. :smokin:

[Strat]

Obviously, if something is illegal, you shouldn't do whatever it is that is illegal. It's a crime.

I just want to make a post to inform the curious, I used to wonder about this a lot.

Some people wonder about the differing effects of marijuana vs mushrooms / hallucinogens. Smoking marijuana does not have a lasting effect. It's kinda like drinking beer, wait a little while and you'll sober up. If someone can't handle the marijuana, they can sit down, relax, and calm down. They will noticeably start feeling better in about 30 minutes. The strenght of hallucinogens vs marijuana is like comparing a knife to an ICBM; two VASTLY different things.

If a person were to take a heavy dose of a hallucinogen, they are in it for the long haul whether the experience is good or bad. We're talking 7 hours depending on the substance and dosage. The most difficult phase of the trip is at the very beginning, referred to as 'the come-up.' This is commonly uncomfortable.* When you trip, your perceptional awareness is seemingly expanded, and everything you supress will become impossible to ignore. Your 'mental process' is sped up, amplified. People often resist this, 'bringing out of thoughts and emotions,' this makes the trip worse. This leads to bad trips. Why does it work that way? I don't know it just does. If you resist, that'll make it worse. From what I've seen, bad trips happen to less than half of the people that trip.

The benefitial aspect of tripping coincidentally spawns from the same thing that causes the dentrimental aspects; the increased perceptional awareness. This enlightened awareness leads to little epiphanies, which lead to other epiphanies. Some one who isn't me tried writing down all of these little epiphanies while under the influence and it was one, giant, run-on sentence. These substances have also proven, in a seemingly open and shut case, to increase ones artistic talents. If we take a survey of recording artists that have recorded groundbreaking music, a vast majority of them were taking substances like these. This is a pheonomenon that should be investigated further. Is one required to take substances to be a great artist? No. History has suggested it helps. If you don't understand my words, listen to Freebird, Stairway To Heaven, Comfortably Numb, and Hotel California.

Generally, hallucinogens are not taken in close proximity. One needs time to recover from a trip or they'll start acting 'spacey.' Marijuana users tend to use in a closer proximity because, like I said, it's similar to drinking beer in that aspect. The effect isn't so heavy and one recovers quickly. The high of marijuana is hard to describe. It varies from person to person. If I were forced to put a description to it here's what I'd say: You know when you hear a song you like? A song you absolutely love, you're pumping your fist to it and you're just in that moment? That's what the marijuana high is like. You can have that feeling on demand.

A common argument against marajuana is that when the high wears off, you'll be unhappy because you aren't in that moment. Theoretically from there, you are then focused on your next high. Most likely, this is the case for some people. That's just it, some can handle it, some can't, some struggle with it. If you can handle it, you will take the benefits of it, if not, then your bank account and social life will suffer. It all depends on the user. There are a lot of great theories on why some can't handle it. It really is a shame that it has the image of Cheech and Chong, rather than a tool for self betterment.

People take an 'A' or 'B' route and come to conclusions when discussing things like this. So be it. Conclusions often have a detrimental effect.

*It would be fascinating to conduct a study on peoples minds and see why it is that some deal with this better than others, we would all benefit from that.

[Icecold]

Obviously, if something is illegal, you shouldn't do whatever it is that is illegal. It's a crime.


Yes officer. :high5:

So is using variious non-compliant methods to challenge the elites.

But, by all means, obey the laws that bind you. :pound:

[BMJ]

Hi Guys,
I understand you guys say there are the benefits to illegal drugs and your experience is that you have not had any withdrawal symptoms or mental illness as a result of the use of marijuna, that great im glad you haven't suffered. But that is your personal experience do either of you know anyone who has developed a mental illness as a result of drug abuse?

Furthermore, does your positive comments about illegal drug use suggest that you would recommend someone you care about try illegal drugs?

Because if you do endorse the use of illegal drugs to family or friends , then im sure that "11alone" parents would fully appreciation your wisdom in recommending their 19 year old give illegal drugs ago.

P.S. Be reponsible with your replys and consider the possible consequences.

[ouporblowup]

i used to take alot of psilocybin mushrooms

and i recommend them to anyone interested and mentally healthy enough.

ive tried other drugs but the feeling i had on mushrooms was beyone what i thought drugs could feel like.

it wasnt a high, it was an EXPERIENCE

i felt closer to nature, people, and the universe. you really feel as though your higher self takes over and shows you how it feels to let go of fear, ego, confusion, etc.

i dont recommend them for everyone, but definently most. it will show you a new side to this world that you dont lose when they wear off.

[tkh123186]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubuTR5vXISA - New! DMT - The Spirit Molecule 1/5

DMT is said to have spiritual awakening capabilities and is banned almost everywhere... never tried it before but anything natural can't be completely bad... now something synthetic like the narcotics we create today are awful and a huge detriment to society.

[dan i el]

Hi Guys,


Furthermore, does your positive comments about illegal drug use suggest that you would recommend someone you care about try illegal drugs?



Speaking for myself: NO

[joedjemal]

I regard the psychoactive drugs as tools. In my time I've tried pretty much everything and I enjoy the occasional smoke but they can become a serious trap. They should be treated with a GREAT DEAL of respect and it's probably better if you get there without them.

In any case if I smoke too much I don't get my gardening done. Alcohol kills the inner connection dead so I don't touch it these days. The main thing the synchronicity is trying to get me to stop doing is nicotine. I've tried loads of times and just can't beat the stuff.

[11alone]

Hello to everyone, :) First of all i wanted to say thank you for your opinons and thoughts on this subject, i appreciate it. As I just becoming a new Avalon member did'nt reply to any comments and I wanted to say sorry for that. I Literally did not know I had all these comments until 2 or 3 days ago. I thought when you recieved a comment on a thread it would tell you or let you know on notifications (which was dumb of me) by the time I saw all these comments I did'nt have time or was able to reply to any, my apologies. I also needed a little help on how to reply with quotes or multi-quotes, or how to reply to specific sentences/subjects. If anyone can help it'd be appreciated so I can begin replying to any new comments.

As far as the whole drug subject, I believe it does open your mind consciously. I say this because thats how I started believing more and more about ET's, conspiracies etc. Which eventually led me to waching videos, documentaries, then I came upon Project Camelot videos on youtube wich I found very fascinating. Also a few expirences I had was because if this. The more I believed the more I was being aware of everything, which led to a few wierd expirences, which I have still every once in a while. It's as if the universe gave a few attractions to me the were not normal at all. I was just very curious because I my self was a big smoker and daily smoker. Proud to say though I no longer smoke I was able to stop smoking, drinking, etc. in one day believe it or not. I now know that that wasnt the way to go, but very grateful where I am in this point in my life. I am now fine and trying to find new ways to be more spiritual, I am very very open minded just seeking the truth. :peace:

[Rog]

There is a major problem with this thread. Some have recognized it but not brought sufficient attention to it. No one is at fault here, crippling ignorance is the birthmark of our planet. To use the label "drugs", is like going to a world-cuisine buffet, taking one of everything, blending it, and chugging it down. "Disgusting" I'm sure is what comes to your minds. 

Watching television, driving cars, eating fruit, having relationships with people, even perusing this forum are all in the same category as "taking drugs". It's the taboos from society and the ever-cracking whip of controllers that have caused us as cultural beings to completely partition these select things from all other forms of energy; Being made to think that because of the mind-bending nature that the rules that apply to everthing else don't apply to them.

It's important to understand too that sleep deprivation and huffing glue can cause hallucinations, but the leprechaun I saw form out of math equations on a marker board in economics class doesn't hold the same spiritually relevant water as the "hallucinations" caused by other substances.

If there are people here who have relatable stories of culture-shock among Earthlings or even a contactee with a wild experience I would love to see your perspective on this thread. My point being, that what is taking place when one of us ignorants is "tripping balls"(reflecting our cultures self-admitted ignorance about these things) is nothing more than your human mind sharing mind-space with a non-human sentient. It's essentially the same exact thing as any relationship we have with anyone, but just how we have come to manifest our consciousness up to that point, and how both people are spiritually manifesting into physical reality is what determines the dissonance of existential-perspective between the two grokking minds.

This is why it's fundamental to "Know thy self". Just like it is between two similiar humans, not knowing and caring for who you are can lead you to adopting other people's traits that aren't good for you, whether or not they're good for them.

Here is the perspective of the people who first came into contact with what...er who, westerners refer to as Salvia Divinorum. It's an excerpt from an article on Erowid. 


There are a number of common names for S. divinorum and nearly all are related to the plant's association with the Virgin Mary. It is known to the Mazatecs as ska María or ska Pastora and the sage is also known by a number of Spanish names including hojas de María, hojas de la Pastora, hierba (yerba) María or la María. The Mazatecs believe this Salvia to be an incarnation of the Virgin Mary, and care is taken to avoid trampling on or damaging it when picking the leaves, which are used both for curing and in divination (Fig. 2).

Ultimately I would use two metaphors to explain how we as individuals and an Earth-bound collective should understand how to interact with these forces.

If you break your legs, are meditation, self-reliance, and intuition going to be the most intelligent ways of addressing the situation? Just because we should make no other person or force master or god does not mean we are capable of doing brain surgery on ourselves. Seeking the help of another is a very important aspect of humility, just as knowing who to ask and why is an important aspect of discernment. 

The second metaphor is that of air and space travel. You would be fairly far out of your mind to strap some wooden wings to a bike and ride it off a cliff thinking you're going to fly. There was a movie made with the actor Billy-Bob Thorton that's the "spitting-image" of how I see our culture intergrating these experiences, it's The Astronaut Farmer (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0469263/). I haven't actually seen the movie but it's not hard to understand. Simply put, who would you ever trust to build their own rocket and actually make a successful go of it? It takes an incredible amount of sacred knowledge, technique, and actionable wisdom to responsibly handle.

All this being said, I 100% believe we do not need these energies to better ourselves for the beings that we are. All things considered however, for the unique predicament we find ourselves in, we would be fools to denounce how they can help to catalyze our own higher functions.

Sorry for being long-winded, blame "Erin" :P

I feel I can help people better understand these things and how to approach them, I look forward to the dialogue.

[DeDukshyn]

Interesting topic, interesting perspectives. I have tried a few different drugs in my youth (I was a child of the 80's and the rave generation). Strangely, my drug taking experiences (mushrooms, lsd, ecstacy and marijuana) were all with highly intelligent friends who all held very respectable jobs; accountants, lecturers, researchers etc etc., We did this purely on a recreational level, several times. We tried it, enjoyed it and then left it alone. As others have said, there is a thin line between use and abuse. I wouldn't advocate these drugs to anyone, particularly those with an addictive nature.

Anyway, back to topic... I remember my accountant friend and I taking some LSD one sunny afternoon, we were sitting in his garden just appreciating the warmth of the sun on our faces. My friend was a very logical person, very hard-working and ambitious, he drove a flash car and had a nice house - you could say he was ruled by his ego. About 30 mins after the LSD begun to take effect; I heard him singing just like a 5 year old kid would do. I couldn't believe my ears, here was this grown man singing away merrily to a....fuschia bush. I looked at this pretty shrub and we could both see it almost dance, it was so alive and beautiful. Each flower, leaf and branch seemed to positively scream life. It was amazing to hear him sing like that as it was so unlike him. The ego must have been having an extended lunch break that afternoon :)

I can't seem to find a video link for this anywhere but I remember watching a BBC documentary about young man suffering from Parkinson's Disease. He was in a wheelchair, unable to walk but whenever he took an ecstasy tablet he could do the most amazing things.

Here's the link http://http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2000/ecstasyagony.shtml

Steph,
LSD does set aside your ego for a moment - but completely. Eckhart Tolle tried it once just to have the experience to be able to compare it to traditional enlightenment. He gave a very good description about his experience somewhere, but I can't recall where - sry - it may be google-able. I would not be as far along on the spiritual path I am without the complete set of my consciousness altered states - substance induced included. But i'm not advocating it of course, this was my path.

[Sierra]

Hello all,

Ms. LSD, mescaline, mushrooms, peyote (the BEST ime) and marijuana user here in my youth.

I haven't heard anyone mention the use of marijuana as medicine yet. Marijuana has been used as a medicine for millennia. When I was 50 years old, I was informed by a doctor that I had the bones of an 80 year old. She said, "I'm so sorry." and I did not know what she meant. Yet.

Over the years, I was put on Celebrex, Vioxx, Bextra and a few other drugs and none of them did any good. If you look at the side effects of these drugs, the list of potential damages is horrifying. When I politely but with concern, mentioned the roulette of side effects, my doctor at the time then wanted to put me on Paxil, to soothe my nerves ... damn! I could not believe what I was hearing! I dumped him, the stupid pig.

My sister, with a violent autistic son to care for, whose violence (we're talking steel door to the parent's bedroom here) could only be controlled with medical marijuana, urged me to try it and what a relief. I have been an MMJ user for 12 years now, including 9 years functioning as a programmer/analyst/project manager etc.

BTW: I heard many stories from my sister from her years on the MMJ forums, about the scope and range of medical marijuana usage. Apparently there are people out there who have to take what I would consider insane amounts of marijuana that would put me on the floor drooling, and it is the ONLY way they can operate as fully functioning and yes professional career members of society. So I really don't think there is a one size fits all answer to marijuana usage.

The legality/illegality issue is just imho, a PTB false flag. The PTB want to control the sale of drugs to support their underground city development habit, and they cannot control the growth and sale of medical marijuana. I'm sure that annoys them. Also the PTB want you to use their medical establishment drugs, a huge financial conduit, not medicine you can grow in the ground for free. Yes, the same PTB decision applied to Tesla's free energy, that it could not be metered and controlled.

My big finally to the point question is this: In your collective opinion, do I prevent myself from spiritual growth by using medical marijuana? Can one still live in the heart when ... stoned LOL?

If I seriously want to be part of the Gaia Uplift, do I have to quit medical marijuana and live in stress from constant pain? Genuinely curious here, to hear from those who do have experience with non medical establishment drugs. Not afraid of the pain anymore, but you know... so much of what we claim as our "spirituality" goes out the window when we are in pain... talk about Ms. Grumpy Pants LOL! Also, pain is so exhausting, a real life waster.

So... can pain be a path? Well... if it is, isn't it usually the kind of pain that is sudden, traumatic, a life/death scenario that interrupts the ego patterning and allows you to move your perspective? What about pain that is just THERE ... just always there as a background noise?

I am rambling all over the place ... (no I have not imbibed or toked yet today lol!)

[Tangri]

Obviously, if something is illegal, you shouldn't do whatever it is that is illegal. It's a crime.

Well illegal as a word, little argument able for me. I am not referring the drug usage.

Canada imports California oranges and we can buy it at any grocery store but if I want to across the border with 1 orange in my car it is prohibited and illegal. What is the NAFTA meaning for us?(as a people)

Addictive hallucinogenics are threat to society for daily life. Users became a parasitics for others(family, next and far neighbors at the end.

[Come As You Are]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ekd5L3a1s68&feature=related

free freedom!!

[SKAWF]

i'm glad someone else started this thread!,

i didnt fancy the idea of getting accused of advocating the use of drugs.....
actually, just to be on the safe side...

i dont advocate the use of drugs. and i certainly wouldnt take part in any court cases because of them,
and i know that Project Avalon wont have anything to do with them either,
and i fully support them in that.

that out of the way,

nearly two years ago, i spent about a month solid on a substance usually reserved for horses.
essentially what it does, is turns off the left hemisphere of the brain.
theres no point trying to have a conversation on it.
its unlike any substance ive ever performed legitimate experiments with.

god i could fill an entire thread!,

it doesnt so much change perception, more like it removes that which inhibits free flowing existance.
in fact, all you're left with, is the energetic flow.
you are one, and connected to all things.
not only that, you settle into the energetic realm, without the perception of the body.
you can adopt whatever form you can imagine.
for example,
there was one time i was with a girl, we were both like liquid metal and when we connected with each other,
we wrapped around each other like a constantly moving spiral,
there is no thought in that state. no voice of the mind. just intention. whatever you want, you can do.
whatever you imagine, happens in realtime.
there was one frequency, that was like a peachy sky with beautiful white clouds above and below,
i spent a while in a horizontal free fall, constantly tumbling though it.
or being able to move through apparent matter
(in winamp, theres a visual effect that looks exactly like that particular experience)

there are different types of experience in that realm.
1, when you do nothing, and take in whats around you,
2, where you engage with someone elses creation,
3, the ones you create yourself.
there are others there too.
some who look like us, and some who are like a cloud of consciousness.
i remember one being, i assumed he was an architect because of the way he influenced the space around him.
in his immediate surroundings, were what looked like computer screens, but around that there was a structure,
which looked like metal plates that were all connected with rods.
he literally extended a greeting to me. something like a bridge extended from him to me,
and on the end was a silver like plate with a card on it.

there was another being (the cloud) who i communicated with via my synthesizer (access virus TI)
i created a groove with it and the communication took the form of subtle influences on the sound that was being produced.
the only two conclusions there can be, is that either, i was communicating with it, or i was changing the sound with my mind.
i did something that may have been a bit naughty.
i set the sound up, and started recording it. then i did something else entirely.
which was listen to 'owner of a lonely heart' by Yes, then i went back to what i was doing.
the reason being, i wanted to disconnect my intention, from the conscious act of recording.
we were having a nice interaction up till the point i asked it for £200,000,000. at that point it withdrew.
however, i played the CD back a short while after, and i felt its presence around me again.
i still have that CD somewhere.

during that month many things happened.
i found a flaw in my character that i wouldnt have known about otherwise which is,
just at the point i'm about to go into something, theres a moments hesitation, which hinders the process.
while i was there, i (for want of a better term) realigned myself to the natural flow of things.
i'm happy to have had the oppurtunity to do that.

i should say that opening yourselves up in that way can be dangerous, or at least, it can have a negative effect.
i have a connection to my core being. i learned long ago that i am not my mind.
i know many people who take drugs, and i watch as their mental process falls to pieces. they cannot function while under the influence.
and some of them find themselves disconnected from that which they think holds them in place, and they freak out.

it may be a cliche, but YOU ARE NOT WHAT YOU THINK YOU ARE. you are a being that can exist without thought. all knowing.
and when you get disconnected from the mind, it can be most unsettling.
find a connection to your true being and it doesnt matter if the mind stops working. drugs only serve to enhance the experience.
i know the quality of my work is lightyears better when i'm out of my tree.
for most its the other way around.

Panic attacks
(IME) this is where you reach a point when who and what you are, forces itself upon your perception. in a confrontational way.
interestingly, its experienced from a point of being disenfranchised from yourself. the mind vs the being.
ive had them in the past. its possibly the worst state of self realisation there is.
my brother told me a good way to stop them.
crude i know, but what you have to do, is strain your body like you're trying to have a sh*t. it slows the heart right down.

i will end this by saying,
as a child i remember thinking 'theres got to be more to life than this' the first time i took acid, i found that there was.
i cant think what i would be like, if i'd never done drugs.

it changes the way you see things. forever.
you must be careful though. if you're thinking of trying them, do it with trusted friends.
those who you know will look after you if it goes wrong.
as much as they can give incredibly positive experiences, they can also give you the opposite of that.

steve

PS, some substances will send you into orbit. some will send you to oblivion. if it doesnt enhance the experience, i dont touch it.

[Sync]

A few bullet points to mull over....

Point A: Don't confuse Psychologists with Psychiatrists. Psychologists (PhD/PsyD) do not prescribe drugs (except in the military).

Point B: I ask you to consider where you think >90% of drugs (elicit and legal) originate from and who profits. (Hint: They are monitoring everything you write on this site).

Consider the testimony of Mr. Gene "Chip" Tatum, a CIA helicopter pilot (R.I.P). I highly suggest viewing his videos regarding Operation Red Rock & Task Force 160.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwPpSkUVQNE


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_6dOsAZfZI&feature=related

Don't forget about Lt. Col. Bo Gritz... (Sorry about the intro to this 80s talk show, but it was amazing that this made it to national tv):


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1l31x-IIK4E

Point C: "They" want your enlightenment to be brief and synthetic.

Point D: To quote a friend from Oakland, CA, "Ain't no revolution is going to come from the blunted."

A little self-disclosure: I was useless to myself and this life's mission when I was using drugs as a maladaptive coping mechanism. They are no bueno unless used extremely sparingly. For example, ~90% of drugs (especially weedies) suppress REM and Slow-Wave sleep.


If anyone's interested, last year I synthesized a brief Lit Review Paper (~15 pgs) regarding the ramifications of moderate & chronic cannabis use upon the human brain & behavior (with a focus on adolescent use). I can send the doc to anyone who may be interested. I never bothered to have it published in a refereed/peer-reviewed journal. Here's the abstract:

Abstract

This literature review focuses on significant findings related to the correlative deleterious effects of cannabis abuse and dependence upon brain physiology, cognition, behavior and its influence on various psychopathologies, particularly among adolescent and young adult populations. Cannabis use may cause significant and enduring changes to neurochemistry and neurological structures, specifically within the limbic system. In addition, cannabis use may lead to significant cognitive impairments, even while unintoxicated, that can seriously effect functioning in daily life, such as driving a car or fostering a healthy interpersonal relationship. Furthermore, there is a correlation between cannabis use and an increased probability in manifesting a serious mental illness within certain populations.

[3optic]

Obviously, if something is illegal, you shouldn't do whatever it is that is illegal. It's a crime.

Well illegal as a word, little argument able for me. I am not referring the drug usage.

Canada imports California oranges and we can buy it at any grocery store but if I want to across the border with 1 orange in my car it is prohibited and illegal. What is the NAFTA meaning for us?(as a people)

Addictive hallucinogenics are threat to society for daily life. Users became a parasitics for others(family, next and far neighbors at the end.

Reminds me of a funny line, "I obey all laws.. not because I'm moral but because I fear consequences."

"Addictive hallucinogenics "? Do you know personally people habitually abuse hallucinogens other than marijuana? May you be thinking of narcotics or opiates?

[Sierra]

i'm glad someone else started this thread!,

i didnt fancy the idea of getting accused of advocating the use of drugs.....
actually, just to be on the safe side...

i dont advocate the use of drugs. and i certainly wouldnt take part in any court cases because of them,
and i know that Project Avalon wont have anything to do with them either,
and i fully support them in that.

<SNIP>

...if it doesnt enhance the experience, i dont touch it.

Ditto! Thank you.

[Lifebringer]

AMA stated on LEAP.org in conference that it would take 900 marijuana joints to od and die.

Impossible feat to accomplish as it take five minuted to crust bud and roll one, so impossible and even then you'd have to be a person with a mouth the size of Rhode Island to inhale it at once.

Don't believe the hype.

[11alone]

i'm glad someone else started this thread!,

i didnt fancy the idea of getting accused of advocating the use of drugs.....
actually, just to be on the safe side...

i dont advocate the use of drugs. and i certainly wouldnt take part in any court cases because of them,
and i know that Project Avalon wont have anything to do with them either,
and i fully support them in that.

that out of the way,

nearly two years ago, i spent about a month solid on a substance usually reserved for horses.
essentially what it does, is turns off the left hemisphere of the brain.
theres no point trying to have a conversation on it.
its unlike any substance ive ever performed legitimate experiments with.

god i could fill an entire thread!,

it doesnt so much change perception, more like it removes that which inhibits free flowing existance.
in fact, all you're left with, is the energetic flow.
you are one, and connected to all things.
not only that, you settle into the energetic realm, without the perception of the body.
you can adopt whatever form you can imagine.
for example,
there was one time i was with a girl, we were both like liquid metal and when we connected with each other,
we wrapped around each other like a constantly moving spiral,
there is no thought in that state. no voice of the mind. just intention. whatever you want, you can do.
whatever you imagine, happens in realtime.
there was one frequency, that was like a peachy sky with beautiful white clouds above and below,
i spent a while in a horizontal free fall, constantly tumbling though it.
or being able to move through apparent matter
(in winamp, theres a visual effect that looks exactly like that particular experience)

there are different types of experience in that realm.
1, when you do nothing, and take in whats around you,
2, where you engage with someone elses creation,
3, the ones you create yourself.
there are others there too.
some who look like us, and some who are like a cloud of consciousness.
i remember one being, i assumed he was an architect because of the way he influenced the space around him.
in his immediate surroundings, were what looked like computer screens, but around that there was a structure,
which looked like metal plates that were all connected with rods.
he literally extended a greeting to me. something like a bridge extended from him to me,
and on the end was a silver like plate with a card on it.

there was another being (the cloud) who i communicated with via my synthesizer (access virus TI)
i created a groove with it and the communication took the form of subtle influences on the sound that was being produced.
the only two conclusions there can be, is that either, i was communicating with it, or i was changing the sound with my mind.
i did something that may have been a bit naughty.
i set the sound up, and started recording it. then i did something else entirely.
which was listen to 'owner of a lonely heart' by Yes, then i went back to what i was doing.
the reason being, i wanted to disconnect my intention, from the conscious act of recording.
we were having a nice interaction up till the point i asked it for £200,000,000. at that point it withdrew.
however, i played the CD back a short while after, and i felt its presence around me again.
i still have that CD somewhere.

during that month many things happened.
i found a flaw in my character that i wouldnt have known about otherwise which is,
just at the point i'm about to go into something, theres a moments hesitation, which hinders the process.
while i was there, i (for want of a better term) realigned myself to the natural flow of things.
i'm happy to have had the oppurtunity to do that.

i should say that opening yourselves up in that way can be dangerous, or at least, it can have a negative effect.
i have a connection to my core being. i learned long ago that i am not my mind.
i know many people who take drugs, and i watch as their mental process falls to pieces. they cannot function while under the influence.
and some of them find themselves disconnected from that which they think holds them in place, and they freak out.

it may be a cliche, but YOU ARE NOT WHAT YOU THINK YOU ARE. you are a being that can exist without thought. all knowing.
and when you get disconnected from the mind, it can be most unsettling.
find a connection to your true being and it doesnt matter if the mind stops working. drugs only serve to enhance the experience.
i know the quality of my work is lightyears better when i'm out of my tree.
for most its the other way around.

Panic attacks
(IME) this is where you reach a point when who and what you are, forces itself upon your perception. in a confrontational way.
interestingly, its experienced from a point of being disenfranchised from yourself. the mind vs the being.
ive had them in the past. its possibly the worst state of self realisation there is.
my brother told me a good way to stop them.
crude i know, but what you have to do, is strain your body like you're trying to have a sh*t. it slows the heart right down.

i will end this by saying,
as a child i remember thinking 'theres got to be more to life than this' the first time i took acid, i found that there was.
i cant think what i would be like, if i'd never done drugs.

it changes the way you see things. forever.
you must be careful though. if you're thinking of trying them, do it with trusted friends.
those who you know will look after you if it goes wrong.
as much as they can give incredibly positive experiences, they can also give you the opposite of that.

steve

PS, some substances will send you into orbit. some will send you to oblivion. if it doesnt enhance the experience, i dont touch it.

Completely agree, very well said:).

[Sierra]

<snip> Do you know personally people habitually abuse hallucinogens other than marijuana? <snip>

Good morning! Ms. Medical Pot Head here: I've never hallucinated on marijuana in my life and I don't know anyone who has. I'm not sure what category marijuana would be classified as but surely not as an hallucinogenic ...

[Sierra]

AMA stated on LEAP.org in conference that it would take 900 marijuana joints to od and die.

Impossible feat to accomplish as it take five minuted to crust bud and roll one, so impossible and even then you'd have to be a person with a mouth the size of Rhode Island to inhale it at once.

Don't believe the hype.

ROFLMAO!!! Oh that produced the funniest picture in my mind's eye!!!

[dddanieljjjamesss]

The answer is absolutely YES.

The thing is, many people consume these substances without directing the OPENING.

Which may mean things are coming up the wrong end, so to speak.

So if you are aware, keep on keepin' on, day trippers. :cool:


EDIT:

And I would say, that most fears of abusing something hallucinogenic are much like fears associated with spending too long on the astral plane, dig? You open yourself to many forces, balanced in their intent, both good and bad, but eventually we need to come down, back to that world of balance of 'normal' consciousness to tie it all together. Spending too long floating along will just burn holes in your aura.

[3optic]

<snip> Do you know personally people habitually abuse hallucinogens other than marijuana? <snip>

Good morning! Ms. Medical Pot Head here: I've never hallucinated on marijuana in my life and I don't know anyone who has. I'm not sure what category marijuana would be classified as but surely not as an hallucinogenic ...

Hi Sierra. THC (Tetrahydrocannabinol) is classified as a hallucinogen but it is mild. The pre-Buddhist Tibetans used to eat it for their shamanistic practices. You may have found that eating a pot brownie can have powerful effects. I have taken a few ethneogens and psychedelics and have not had many experiences where I saw things that were not there but I could often see 'phenomena' behind closed eyes as I could to a relatively mild extent with cannabis.

[Sierra]

A few bullet points to mull over....
<snip>
Point B: I ask you to consider where you think >90% of drugs (elicit and legal) originate from and who profits.
<snip>


Both the CIA and the MMJ clinics (yes we asked our provider what they thought of legalizing marijuana) are against the legalization of marijuana for the same reason: Profits.

The CIA has to support their underground city development habit and the mmj clinics know that were marijuana legalized, they would have to charge a third to half of what they currently charge.



This literature review focuses on significant findings related <snip> particularly among adolescent and young adult populations. Cannabis use may cause significant and enduring changes to neurochemistry and neurological structures, specifically within the limbic system. <snip> Furthermore, there is a correlation between cannabis use and an increased probability in manifesting a serious mental illness within certain populations.

If we had bars for marijuana instead of alcohol, would our next generation be in better shape re addiction, birth damage, car accidents, mental illness, violence, rape, murder ... ? Would our female high school and college students be safer?

Alcohol is far worse. I've seen people in murderous rages caused by alcohol, but marijuana? Nope.

I may be misinformed here but I have never heard that there is the equivalent of permanent (or otherwise) brain damage to babies from marijuana as there is from fetal alcohol syndrome.

Falling off my soapbox now ...

[Sierra]

Hi Sierra. THC (Tetrahydrocannabinol) is classified as a hallucinogen but it is mild. The pre-Buddhist Tibetans used to eat it for their shamanistic practices. You may have found that eating a pot brownie can have powerful effects. I have taken a few ethneogens and psychedelics and have not had many experiences where I saw things that were not there but I could often see 'phenomena' behind closed eyes as I could to a relatively mild extent with cannabis.

I want some of what you're smoking lol!

I have a friend who has been to Bhutan several times and she says marijuana grows everywhere in the countryside.

Thanks 3optic, I stand corrected, marijuana is classified as an hallucinogenic :hippie:

[Chrononaut]

Hi Sync,

I myself have some experience with psychedelics..
I do not agree with with the idea that psychedelic are bad for us like the mean stream media is telling us. Of course there are other ways to get to a higher spiritual level to. Everyone has the freedom to express his own way on their spiritual path. It's about a manager with intent of handle it with responsibility.
We are so lied for a long long time on this. I'll tell you most people who are deceased to such resources is ignorant because religion, mainstream media or politics. They dealt with it on a pathetic way. And at the same time the so called rulers bombarded us and exposed us to their various toxic trash in almost all the products we use in our daily lives.
Why you think native American genocide,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKbiLBXIccw&feature=player_embedded#at=34
They want a wall between our world and the spiritual one by trying to making us believe their freaking story's and keep al the knowledge for them selves. So they can keep us down. But this is NOT going to happen.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZoOEozN8iA



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grcqs9cDuN8



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfRTlvuYN1c&feature=channel_video_title



Namaste,

Chrononaut

[s3nru]

short answer: yes with a but
long answer:

No drugs do not open the conscious mind, it is the mind which opens itself. Drugs (especially hallucinogens) represent energies and ideas that generally cause a reaction based on the context. Often times this can open the conscious mind, but only if on a subconscious level you are using the drugs for that purpose. Drugs are what you make them; ie. some people are addicted to huffing paint, some people ritualistically use peyote. Calling something a drug can be extremely contentious. What's the difference between marijuana, barley, and the coffee bean?

People say marijuana causes psychosis (whereas there's plenty of evidence it's that people with psychosis seek out marijuana)-- I wonder if alcohol had been illegal for 100 years how we'd characterize mid to heavy drinkers?

[shadowstalker]

I find it amazing that all these drugs are considered illegal,Bad and so on.
But then they prescribe us stuff that keep us high for days/weeks and most folks become addicted.
The true oxymoron of pharma, in other words it's ok to get stoned and so on so long as you do it on there time and there way and pay them well for it.

[dukes4monny]

My first posting on here, so go easy on me please.
To answer the OP's question, yes some natural drugs do open the conscious mind. I agree with Graham Hancock when he says that the "The War on Drugs is actually a War on Consciousness".
Like many people, as a youth I did quite a bit of weed and some LSD and mushrooms, and there is nothing addictive about them. I do believe that a lot of these natural highs are here to actually wake us up! Having said that, they need to be treated with respect. If you are going to take any hallucinogen, you need to be in the right frame of mind before you do it - settled - calm and open to the experience.
I still enjoy the occasional smoke, but unlike in my youth, I much prefer the experience outdoors as it helps me to feel closer to nature, and it also seems (for me) to suppress the left brain (ego) and I get real clarity of thought which stays with me for several days afterwards.

Just to go a bit OT.....there are many things that are dangerously addictive and still legal, alcohol is one of the worst, but THE worst culprit in my book is 'Money'.

If you have not read it yet, I can thoroughly recommend Graham Hancock's book Supernatural. He has some very interesting theories about hallucinogens and human evolution..........

[Chrononaut]

Listen the this:

http://truthfrequencyradio.com/?p=3266

http://truthfrequencyradio.com/?p=3257

http://truthfrequencyradio.com/?p=2850

[ktlight]

Hello everyone, Recently i saw a short video on YouTube by Graham Hancock speaking of Marijuana opening the conscious mind. Note: That I'm not encouraging people to go and try drugs, but I was just wondering if this was true?

Graham Hancock short audio/video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_mD6_oFpc0

This Link should get you there, I'm new a new member so I'm still not sure how to put videos up.

I was also wondering about the psilocybin mushrooms? I've also read somewhere a while back that reptilinas like to eat hallucinagen mushrooms, again im just wondering if this is all true?

If anyone has any answers/opinions it'd be great, and very appreciated. Thank You.

-Efren :peace:

My understanding is that everyone who has ever done anything, even before Leonardo Da Vinci and including, did drugs. I used to have a book called 'Drug Users Manual', which was a book full of facts and stories and one, in particular, was about a Red Indian who did Marijuana, lived in a teepee and whenever the Police came to visit would let them know that he would continue to do so until he had no need. I think they left him alone. This book also named names, and there was a whole list that were historic.

I read another book which described that the name Jesus was a code name for psilocybin mushrooms.

In fact, the BBC has archive footage of an academician on LSD, which was broadcast.

So, throughout history. So, there is a lot of hyprocricy on the subject.

[11alone]

Hi Sync,

I myself have some experience with psychedelics..
I do not agree with with the idea that psychedelic are bad for us like the mean stream media is telling us. Of course there are other ways to get to a higher spiritual level to. Everyone has the freedom to express his own way on their spiritual path. It's about a manager with intent of handle it with responsibility.
We are so lied for a long long time on this. I'll tell you most people who are deceased to such resources is ignorant because religion, mainstream media or politics. They dealt with it on a pathetic way. And at the same time the so called rulers bombarded us and exposed us to their various toxic trash in almost all the products we use in our daily lives.
Why you think native American genocide,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKbiLBXIccw&feature=player_embedded#at=34
They want a wall between our world and the spiritual one by trying to making us believe their freaking story's and keep al the knowledge for them selves. So they can keep us down. But this is NOT going to happen.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZoOEozN8iA



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grcqs9cDuN8



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfRTlvuYN1c&feature=channel_video_title



Namaste,

Chrononaut

Very interesting, enjoyed it. Thanks for sharing :),

[DeDukshyn]

Hi DeDukshyn,
Point taken about marijuna.

A strong personality or or not you have no assurances that you will not become an addict even after taking your first hit. About control what control do you have against a substance that can become instantly addictive?

I don't agree that there is a fine line because every time they use it the user is playing russian roulette. That's because the user does not know what the drug is made off, secondly you don't know its strength of what your taking and so you don't know how you are going to react. And neither are words of assurance from a friend that "he's got good stuff" or "I trust that dealer" insurance against a bad outcome.

Yes dramatic but true.

Regarding marijuna, most stuff these days is hydroponically grown, and very potent. Although I don't think it can become addictive. But having said that you could become schziophrenic if you smoke enough of the stuff, and consequently spend the rest of you like on medication and trying to copy with your thoughts, lack of memory and other personalities.

So is there really any control or fine line, please.

I just read this now, so sorry for the late response if you even see this. First addiction is about the mind - not about substances or "things" - that needs to be put into perspective. Anything can be addictive - it dependes on the tendency of the mind in question - little to do with the addictive thing in itself. If substances were the cause of addictions then we wouldn't have sex addicts, workaholics, compulsive liars, etc. Addiction is strictly a behavioural problem, that can cause substance dependance -- this distinction is very important.

Substance dependance only occurs when a certain substance is regularly ingested, and you body begins to become dependant on certain chemicals (everthing is a chemical) for normal function - because it is easier than having the body manufacture it itself. If your brain has a receptor for a specific chemical - it is there for a reason - most likely that your body already uses and regulates that chemical or a very similar one for normal function; if your brain does not have a receptor for any chemical - that chemical has no effects. Consider DMT - extremely powerful hallucinagen - but your brain can't function properly without it. Right there that tells you that it is not about the substance at all - but the mind.

The most powerfully addictive substance is 100% legal to buy (nicotine). The #1 killer of people in the US is legal drugs (presciption drugs and related complications kill 270,000+ people in the USA ALONE). Marijuana does not create physical dependence. But OTC sleep medice and cough medicine can. I'm just putting things into a reality based perspective of the real facts.

"A strong personality or not you have no assurances that you will not become an addict even after taking your first hit" -- marijuana is not physically addictive -nor are any hallucinagens for that matter; you won't be addicted after any number of hits. This is a fact. But, you might believe you are - (belief systems aren't something I can't cover here).

"I don't agree that there is a fine line because every time they use it the user is playing russian roulette." -- Maijuana kills 0 people per year, presciption drugs 270,000+ every year in the USA alone; who's playing russian roulette?

"But having said that you could become schziophrenic if you smoke enough of the stuff" -- I have no clue why some people keep saying this - total lie. Schizophrenics are often prescribed medical marijuana because it helps them cope with reality - likely how that fable started and turned into propaganda.

"So is there really any control or fine line, please. " -- Yes very much so when you put the real facts into perspective with other real risks;


I am NOT advocating drug use, but all you have to do is compare the dangers of legal prescription drugs, legal alcohol, legal nicotine, to the dangers of marajuana to see where the real risks lie as opposed to the imagined risks. I made my comments about marijuana, because that was the main topic of this thread. Commonly addictive drugs are nicotine, heroin, crack cocaine, meth -- extremely strong dependancies can develop with any of those. When you compare REAL risks, marijuana should be in the "food" category IMO ;)

Sry if this sounded blunt - that's just my style - but what I wrote is strongly based in purely education, and statistics. I played around with some drugs as youth, but I very carefully researched each one before trying. I also had to to take some training in my schooling on drugs (psychology class), and have that little bit of past first hand experience as well. The main thing to keep in mind is that whatever one thinks that drugs can do for them - can be done by your consciousness alone - shortcuts don't help ;)

[TimelessDimensions]

Marijuana does not alter your consciousness anymore than alcohol.

Research DMT, Ayahuasca, Magic Mushrooms, and LSD. Native American Indian shamans have used psychotropic herbs for healing purposes for eons.
Also, the man who discovered LSD lived to the mighty age of 102.

Only take drugs if you are ready to see your subconscious mind,

a "bad" trip occurs when there is much hypocrisy about yourself that you choose to ignore. Although, if you are mentally strong then venturing into your own "hell" world can also provide much learning.

It is safer to avoid trying to accelerate your consciousness. Practice daily meditation and you will gradually experience the same altered states of consciousness as DMT, Ayahuasca, Magic Mushrooms, or LSD.

[11alone]

I just read this now, so sorry for the late response if you even see this. First addiction is about the mind - not about substances or "things" - that needs to be put into perspective. Anything can be addictive - it dependes on the tendency of the mind in question - little to do with the addictive thing in itself. If substances were the cause of addictions then we wouldn't have sex addicts, workaholics, compulsive liars, etc. Addiction is strictly a behavioural problem, that can cause substance dependance -- this distinction is very important.

Substance dependance only occurs when a certain substance is regularly ingested, and you body begins to become dependant on certain chemicals (everthing is a chemical) for normal function - because it is easier than having the body manufacture it itself. If your brain has a receptor for a specific chemical - it is there for a reason - most likely that your body already uses and regulates that chemical or a very similar one for normal function; if your brain does not have a receptor for any chemical - that chemical has no effects. Consider DMT - extremely powerful hallucinagen - but your brain can't function properly without it. Right there that tells you that it is not about the substance at all - but the mind.

The most powerfully addictive substance is 100% legal to buy (nicotine). The #1 killer of people in the US is legal drugs (presciption drugs and related complications kill 270,000+ people in the USA ALONE). Marijuana does not create physical dependence. But OTC sleep medice and cough medicine can. I'm just putting things into a reality based perspective of the real facts.

"A strong personality or not you have no assurances that you will not become an addict even after taking your first hit" -- marijuana is not physically addictive -nor are any hallucinagens for that matter; you won't be addicted after any number of hits. This is a fact. But, you might believe you are - (belief systems aren't something I can't cover here).

"I don't agree that there is a fine line because every time they use it the user is playing russian roulette." -- Maijuana kills 0 people per year, presciption drugs 270,000+ every year in the USA alone; who's playing russian roulette?

"But having said that you could become schziophrenic if you smoke enough of the stuff" -- I have no clue why some people keep saying this - total lie. Schizophrenics are often prescribed medical marijuana because it helps them cope with reality - likely how that fable started and turned into propaganda.

"So is there really any control or fine line, please. " -- Yes very much so when you put the real facts into perspective with other real risks;


I am NOT advocating drug use, but all you have to do is compare the dangers of legal prescription drugs, legal alcohol, legal nicotine, to the dangers of marajuana to see where the real risks lie as opposed to the imagined risks. I made my comments about marijuana, because that was the main topic of this thread. Commonly addictive drugs are nicotine, heroin, crack cocaine, meth -- extremely strong dependancies can develop with any of those. When you compare REAL risks, marijuana should be in the "food" category IMO ;)

Sry if this sounded blunt - that's just my style - but what I wrote is strongly based in purely education, and statistics. I played around with some drugs as youth, but I very carefully researched each one before trying. I also had to to take some training in my schooling on drugs (psychology class), and have that little bit of past first hand experience as well. The main thing to keep in mind is that whatever one thinks that drugs can do for them - can be done by your consciousness alone - shortcuts don't help ;)

Hello, DeDukshyn
I totally agree and understand what you are saying :clap2:. I have a friend that I use to smoke with, and he asked me how'd I stop in a day, I told him that it was very easy and that it was just all in his head, after he just kept saying how he was addicted and how the weed got him etc. lol

note: I was a daily smoker, bought 1/8 of marijuana once/twice a week for more than a year and a half, before that just every once in a while. I knew I wasn't addicted just liked the feeling. I've also tried half of an 1/16 of Mushrooms twice and very few times of Ecstasy.

I guess I was just brighter than my friends, they still believe they're addicted.
I asked if it opened the conscious mind, because I've had a few experiences when I was high on marijuana, and one stronger experience when was on Mushrooms, and Ecstasy my first weird experience(With someone I strongly believe is an Et, Half Et maybe, but looked human)

Note: That when I was taking Mushrooms when I had that one strong experience I threw up 15-20 min later to where I didn't feel as high as I should have been, but I knew my mind was right. (I'll post my experience soon)

(back to subject)..which later led me to my awakening process I guess you can say to where I began noticing the obvious etc. I was always a believer in UFO's, ET's, Government conspiracies etc. All my life I waned to see a UFO (which I have three times) and wanted to meet an ET (which I strongly believe I have), I believe I attracted that to my life, but later feeling like it wasn't too good or they had an evil side to them. Ever since I've been researching about UFO's, ET's, Gov. conspiracies etc. began watching Project Camelot (Very fascinating), which eventually led me here. Ever since that I get many threats from people that I feel are odd and that are OBVIOUSLY towards me etc.

I'm sorry I went a little off subject, I guess when I told a few people they thought I was crazy. Ever since I haven't spoke much about it to anyone. I also wanted to say just because I've tried these drugs/hallucinogen it doesn't mean that I'm crazy or anything. My mind is right. I also no longer try anything or drink as well. I also now know that theres many ways to open up your mind such as meditation etc, and I'm very much brighter than I was. :)
peace.

[dukes4monny]

I just love his final suggestion...........:hail:

9PkjfMW3I0I

[passiglight]

i have taken thousands upon thousands of magik shroomies,,,,,,i once shared probably a thousand or so with a friend in one brew,,,,,,,was tripped out for hours on end,,,,,,,,and took hundreds and hundreds of blotter trips that we used to be able to buy, i tripped pretty constantly for years 2 -3 months at a time,,,,,,,,,and used to enter transcendental states for very long periods of time,,,,loved every second of it,,,,,,,smoked weed for over 30 years and still do and i love it,,,,,, i have taken mushrooms that were grown from all over the world in very large amounts,, i have eaten some mushrooms that were maybe 8 inches tall with a crown of 5'6 inches,totally covered in fungi,, absolutely beautiful.......

And i am truly thankfull for having the wonderfull opportunity to experince the things i have,,,,,,, i have seen some amazing creatures and met some amazing entities,,,,,,i would probably trip every day of my life if i could,,,,,,though of course that's not very practical...

i have a very strong sense of my identity,, who i am and where i am, and imo one has to have a strong sense of ones character to trip to the lengths i have gone,,,,and even to trip in the first place,i have seen some casualties along the way !!!

My one desire is to share the experience david icke had when he went off to the jungle for his experiences,,,,, i am still to this day,,,dead jealous of that rofl...

cosmic love

[firstlook]

Graham Hancock interview for Know Drugs - "bringing honesty into the conversation"


Graham Hancock discusses his views on the legalisation of drugs.

"We think there's something missing in the conversation about drugs and we're setting out to change that. Connect to Know Drugs and help bring honesty into the the debate."

See more at: http://www.knowdrugs.net/


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huFp-vaY_Ok&feature=feedwll&list=WL

[john.d]

Well , I've wanted to try dmt for years and finally had the opportunity last night . What a fantastic experience ! I'm keen to explore it further as it's made everything else I've tried over the years like LSD , mushrooms etc seems like kindergarten toys .

John

[Moemers]

I keep having Astral Teleportations while I'm using drugs.

It's pretty interesting. I also learned a life lesson from a Leaf and communed with a Rock who bade me sit and then showed me a great many thing.

[Intraphase]

--------

I've never taken drugs in my life, but I'd venture to say that my mind is fairly wide open. There are other techniques which work extremely well, but none of them are shortcuts.

Read the brilliant and classic THE MASTER GAME (http://amazon.com/Master-Game-Robert-S-Deropp/dp/0385286325), by Robert S. de Ropp.

The book describes (among much else) how for many first-time users of mind-expanding drugs, they find themselves propelled into an astonishing and unique experience.

The trap, de Ropp explains, is to continue taking the drug thinking that this is the path to follow. It rarely is. The internal biochemical responses become gradually more limited until one is [at least] emotionally addicted to trying to re-experience the initial breakthrough.

Here's a quote from one Amazon reviewer:


Don't let the subtitle "Transcending the drug experience" alienate those who are too young to remember psychedelia.

The Master Game is not about using drugs; it's about going beyond them to personal enlightenment.

It details the games people play, much like Toffler Eric Berne (http://www.ericberne.com/Games_People_Play.htm)] then it defines the Master Game: one in which the person is not so involved with their life that their view is blinded by personal situations, much like Dyer's observer.

If you got beyond the drugs in Castaneda, you can discover the genius of The Master Game. It is truly a book to base your attitude on.

Found an active link for the book referenced.
Storage page with description.
http://www.holybooks.com/762/
or direct:
http://www.holybooks.com/wp-content/uploads/The-Master-Game-By-Robert-S.-de-Ropp.pdf


Exploration and Discovery sometimes leads to Creation and Stewardship.

As to drugs a two edge sword quote::hail::first::hail:

"The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom."

[Muzz]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Iz0d2OFBHQ

[sirac]

exploit with extreme caution.....(some might close u off forever...that is the danger to play with)
but yes
we've heard it said that nicoten deals within the brains Ach system
THC with cannabinoid receptors in the hippocampus (glutamargic, cannabinoid being neg.receptors, but one understands that one is within the memory formation segment of the brain, and hence the extreme creativity for those who are active regulators of the trip experience...or u just need to be a thinker versus being an experiencer)

[Carmody]

Hello everyone, Recently i saw a short video on YouTube by Graham Hancock speaking of Marijuana opening the conscious mind. Note: That I'm not encouraging people to go and try drugs, but I was just wondering if this was true?

Graham Hancock short audio/video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_mD6_oFpc0

This Link should get you there, I'm new a new member so I'm still not sure how to put videos up.

I was also wondering about the psilocybin mushrooms? I've also read somewhere a while back that reptilinas like to eat hallucinagen mushrooms, again im just wondering if this is all true?

If anyone has any answers/opinions it'd be great, and very appreciated. Thank You.

-Efren :peace:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCg9Wb3UwBk

[TWINCANS]

My understanding of the 'drugs aid consciousness-raising' issue is that it was true - in one particular time and space. Drugs were introduced to almost holographically open channels in the reawakening human. Not a preferred mechanism, but effective. For that time and place (the "60's" heyday) the objective was achieved but not the optimal way - just a way that worked. Many were damaged by their participation.

Nowadays we are expected to undertake our process naturally as has been suggested, through meditation and healing and increasing wisdom etc. etc.

[Gustav]

Why is it links that are very useful are never around when I need them. Anyway, not too long ago I saw an interview with a guy from Australia (at least originally) who was quite into shamanism, aboriginal culture, but also other cultures. He talked about the use of drugs and said the following, of course parafrased: "Drugs open veils or curtains that people are not yet aware or ready to see or go through. This unpreparedness can have the massive positive or negative impacts that people experience with hallucogenic drugs.". I think that man has a point. But I see I, again, have a lot of reading to do. Thanks for recomminding the book 'the master game'. As soon as I have finished the other ones on the list, this one will follow.

[Carmody]

The mark of the hidden hand is when a single act has multiple outcomes and fulfillment of agendas. Those behind the scenes don't waste a powerful move unless many parameters are dealt with in the single shape or act/direction.

Look up the Rockefeller drug laws on this website (Avalon) and you will find the basic pattern of what has happened in the western world, in particular, the USA.