Telling It Like It Is

[write4change]

I would like to do something totally different today and see if it works. I would like this to be a new kind of thread. I would like no one else to write anything on it but me. Part of the problems we talk about is making huge threads to wade thru.

I would welcome your thanks because that shows everyone some kind of consensus coming.

If we want to talk about this the way we usually do: someone please post another thread now called Does the Old Lady Know What She Is Talking About or something to that effect. I am going to post in subject bursts all day long. My day.

Why I am Writing This:

1. We have a chance to co create right now in a way we have never done before.

2. If we don't really all look at the issues that everything represents, we are not going to rise to a higher understanding or evolution. This is the third time this has happened and it will happen again. Or it will be used as proof that no matter how smart or creative we are--we cannot function any better than TPTB.

3. Last night I was told a story so bizarre it knocked my socks off. It really made me mad in a whole different sense. What was I really mad about---that after a lifetime of experience and really difficult learning experiences that I could be fooled that bad. So I talked on the phone with the one and only woman friend here I talk on the phone with.

We both come to the following conclusion: it is bizarre, it is stupid, and it is so stupid that if true we can't support it based on stupidity and this will really take Bill down.

4. So we wait for the evidence that was told to be forth coming. Didn't happen. So we are back to lots of lying going on still. Almost impossible to tell where this all begins and ends.

5. As many of you pointed out this morning is our approaching 50,000 view thread, this is happening all over the planet. On a whole this is hopeful. And there is coming together as much as there is coming apart. So if we look at this as archetypes of consciousness with us playing roles in it for a while, it is not painful but learning. Learning takes practice. Practice is not always pleasure but done by those who realize the ultimate pleasure is worth the practice.

6. I am not going to reveal the story because I don't know the truth of the story. But I am going to reveal the elements of truth of the story and/or the fears the story really addresses. It is the issues that are seeking to surface.

7. If I was told this story, you can bet at least ten other people were told this story. So it is like an underlying time bomb either waiting for another trigger or we are already just counting down time and don't know it.

8. What I am asking you to believe by assisting me in telling this my way:

a. I have no agenda. I don't want power, I don't like power, I have explored this lots of times in my life--if anything I throw away my power or refuse to use it properly so this may be the lesson I am still learning at Avalon -- how to use it well.

b. I want Avalon to succeed. I see this as team effort. I see Bill as leader and inspiration for the team.

c. There are no short cuts do doing the things that need doing in life. Looking for shortcuts and not willing to do the work only delays the time it takes to do it.

Okay. I am taking a break. It would be a thrill to see a lot of thanks which means giving your consent to do this and do it my way after I have had something to eat.

If not--how I am. I feel called to do this and will do it anyway--it will just be messier.


Love to all , Jai

[Flash]

I feel really stupid right now, Write4change, because I do not understand your post. I see people thanking you, therefore they do understand.:crutch::help:

What is the topic, what is the objective?

[str8thinker]

(write4change) I would like no one else to write anything on it but me.
If no one else is permitted to respond to your thread, how can you guarantee objectivity?

[skippy]

Let's be quiet and listen to write4change...

[write4change]

Okay. What we know so far. I really don't have much power of influence. No matter how many people will contact me behind the scenes, in reality people don't like people any more who approach life this way. I learned that for sure in Beverly Hills and we have now indoctrinated people to think that the way to approach life is to out wit, out last, and out play by any means available. This is reinforced by the PTB. People who deviate, depending on the amount of deviation are ostracized.

So the power for change will come by discussion and discussion is only driven by the power or the willingness for people to exercise their belief in their own power of implementation in front of the group. And doing this-- this way removes all power to influence change from my hands. I can talk but I can't implement action only the group can.

I have done a lot of thinking about group process which is what this is about. In all honesty when I felt truly in danger of being permanently banned and I now know it would have been a complete eraser, I sought the power of the group. The one thing I learned in the 70s when I was studying to be a shrink---while I often did not think my professors were cooking on all cylinders--I saw that if you hung with it--you could trust group process.

So in my mind I decided to from the Golden Giraffe Group--those people who displayed the ability to stick their necks out and risk getting it chopped off. With just a couple of exceptions, all my friends have asked to be my friends. I believe in self selection. So I went through all my friends to see who I would believe would have my back. And lo and behold several had already disappeared. So now my fears increased. But I am who I am from a lifetime of feel the fear and do it anyway.

I wrote the group and everyone wrote back but one man and one woman. That gave me the courage to move forward---I was understood to some degree which did not make me a total fool. And I also got advice that I knew these people would have no problem telling me when and where and how I am getting off the rail.

I have spent a lot of time considering could I enlarge, empower, and sustain this group of giraffes as a group, did I want to, and then should this be done. And I decided no. That it was just another form of what was happening that wasn't working. I would have to explain my thinking to all of Avalon and ask everyone when do you take the time and create the space to become a Golden Giraffe? And why or why not do you not want to become one? And that answer should always remain private.

[write4change]

Please start another thread if you have a need for dialogue or cross talking.

I think I write reasonably clearly what my intentions are and why. I write long posts to cover all the issues in a deep way. If that is not your cup of tea, then do not click on this thread.

[Harley]

I would like this to be a knew kind of thread. I would like no one else to write anything on it but me.

This is NOT the purpose of Project Avalon.



Project Avalon is to be used for DISCUSSION in the search for truth.


Project Avalon is a VEHICLE FOR WITNESSES AND WHISTLE BLOWERS.


It is not a blog.

We really need to get this site back on track!

Thank You,

Harley Hawkins

[Anchor]

Summary: I know a secret. It might be true or it might not. It could take Avalon down. But I am not going to tell you it yet, except in bits and pieces. Lying is still going on. I might know but you might not. Please don't respond on this thread!

How in the name of the creator is this productive? You post on a threaded discussion board and then not ask for discussion?

I'm not trying to be mean here or attack you, but could you not at least rethink the approach to your "disclosure"

Maybe start a group here - it is easy to do. You could even call it the Golden Giraffe Group

John..


{UPDATE}

There is a discussion on the way this thread is being run here (link below)- so if you want to state your opinions about it, that may be the best place to go. For my part I will try to respect write4change's wishes, but in my experience this sort of control/expectation is very hard to maintain...

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?15568-control-freaks-on-Write4change-s-thread...

[Lyricus]

I would like this to be a knew kind of thread. I would like no one else to write anything on it but me.

This is NOT the purpose of Project Avalon.



Project Avalon is to be used for DISCUSSION in the search for truth.


Project Avalon is a VEHICLE FOR WITNESSES AND WHISTLE BLOWERS.


It is not a blog.

We really need to get this site back on track!

Thank You,

Harley Hawkins

I concur!
This is forum, a place to discuss matters freely and share ideas. I understand the principle behind this thread but this isn't Hyde Park corner.
Best Wishes all the same x

[write4change]

The form of my talking to you today is going to be driven by both topic and in response to the thread in response to the Worm Tongue thread. The thread that is fast approaching 50 pages so much of value will be lost. My keeping this thread cleaner and with less noise we can reflect on what I see as out there roiling around in the collective unconscious and constantly being expressed here in often more subtler ways. Then I will conclude with a version of the story.

THE CHARLES FACTOR

I picked up the thread this morning about post # 747 from Hawkwind analyzing Charles. Charles is the X factor. And he is difficult to look at because some of us don't want to and are not even sure why--I am one of those. It is difficult to plow through all the noise. He has cleverly used all this to his advantage. In reading Hawkwind's post I was suddenly hit with the idea that he and others like him had the power to help the rest of us to deal with the Charles material and from that came the idea of posting this way this morning and see how it works.

This is how I understand co creation and synergy to work. For those of you who want to co created on this thread--I would like someone to post Hawkwind's post number 747 here and now and I will take 10 minutes after I quit this section to do it. I have a lot of material to cover. But you all have all the time in the world to read it--if we do it this way.

What Hawkwind and people like him can do is divide up all the pages of the Charles material among you and copy down to one single thread ultimately in chronological order every single thing Charles has said in one single thread that can be judged for all time by only his words as the Charles material. You will then see the patterns of his cadence and progression that are not visible any other way.

I am totally technologically impaired and I can't begin to do those kind of things but from observing it seems to me that if it is divided up it is not to difficult to do. I think where there is a will there is a way. I see all these kind of things as choices we make to see or not see; to act or not act.
If no one post's the Hawkwind contribution in ten minutes. I will move on.

[greybeard]

Summary: I know a secret. It might be true or it might not. It could take Avalon down. But I am not going to tell you it yet, except in bits and pieces. Lying is still going on. I might know but you might not. Please don't respond on this thread!

How in the name of the creator is this productive? You post on a threaded discussion board and then not ask for discussion? Just some place to post things that sow fear and doubt?

I'm not trying to be mean here or attack you, but could you not at least rethink the approach to your "disclosure"

Maybe start a group here - it is easy to do. You could even call it the Golden Giraffe Group

John..

Hi John I suspect he is sending up what so many have been intent on being a part of for the last 8 weeks.
In other words all you have so rightly said in your post and all that Harley said too
This was never the place for it.
It never happened as it was supposed to, no whistles have been blown so far

I might be loosing it but the post is a take off, a larger than life version, of what has happened with Charles.

Tell me im wrong.
I have phoned for the medics to take me away.
C

[Ahkenaten]

We should phone for our in-house medics to "take it away."

[modwiz]

Hawkwind's Post # 747 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?15437-An-important-announcement-following-the-closure-of-the-WORM-TONGUE-thread&p=163679&viewfull=1#post163679)

Bill- if I could open up my brain and let you crawl inside I would, because that's the only way you will ever really know how much respect and admiration I have for you. We'd probably both have a fairly good cry afterwards. I'm clearly not alone on this forum in holding you in that high regard. I don't doubt that the moderators who have recently decided to step down also have very great respect for who you are and what you've done. The problem, my friend, is that of late the situation sometimes seems more akin to Theoden under the spell of Grima Wormtongue and Sauruman than that of Arthur at the roundtable.

The question of whether Charles has come here to help us build something new or to tear apart our efforts to do so has been and continues to be the crux of the matter. After two months of investigating that question to the best of my ability, I still don't know. The question has been argued back and forth for so long that it almost seems pointless to argue it further, and yet it remains the heart of the matter.

As with any scientific investigation, one cannot prove the veracity of any given hypothesis. One can only falsify one hypothesis and show evidence which is better explained by another. Also, when direct evidence is unavailable, it becomes necessary to examine effects which are observable and infer cause. That can, of course, be viewed as being "nit picky". It could also be viewed as a sincere effort to get to the bottom of a very deep and potentially dangerous rabbit hole.

After putting in about eight hours a day since the day I joined going through the Charles material, I'm still not a tenth of the way through it. So, some of my observations may indeed be contradicted by other evidence. Given the current turmoil, however, I feel sharing what I've come up with so far is warranted.

1-As previously stated in this post
If the intent of Charles' suggestion to raise some money to help one of our members was actually to initiate some sort of broader movement which Aubrey had confirmed would have far reaching consequences, then the gravity of the issue should have prompted him to discuss it directly with Bill rather than go through intermediaries. That isn't what happened, so I find it incredibly difficult to believe that the real purpose of this incident is as Charles has described it. It feels much more like a set up, the true purpose of which remains unclear. It could be, as Inelia has suggested, an attempt to shift the focus of Avalon into the sphere of finance, which would make it far easier for the elites to control. It could be, as several people have suggested, an attempt to create division among our community. The fact that it has led to several people calling for a re-structuring of Avalon's decision making process, however, leads me to believe that this was its intent from the start.

2-Charles first claimed he asked people to tell him their eye color because it would give him insight into their character. Later he claimed that the purpose was to make us self aware of our composure. At the very least this shows that some degree of dishonesty and manipulation is taking place.

3-Charls first claimed that the plan was his master's and he didn't have the details of it. He later claimed that the plan was his and had his master's approval. To the best of my knowledge, no explanation of this discrepancy has ever been given.

4-Charles first post on the Atticus account(prior to him revealing his identity) was this:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?4274-Love-Music&p=97148#post97148

The lyrics to this song are available here:
http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/Lullaby-lyrics-The-Cure/D6CEAE4B0F367F9F48256BC1002793A3

Not to read too much into someone's taste in music, but does this strike you as something someone who has come to help would post or someone who is gloating over the perceived helplessness of an intended victim, particularly when held in relation to this excerpt from a subsequent post:
Well it's proved one thing so far your predictable prey.

5- If Charles is being straight with us, then there would be powerful people with a vested interest in disrupting his efforts here. If he isn't being straight with us, then the most likely explanation for his presence would be to be disruptive himself. Either way, trained agent provocateurs would likely be planted in the forum. This most definitely appears to be the case, in that several people who joined the forum after Charles' arrival have seemed intentionally disruptive. If Charles is who he says he is, it seems to me he would have the wherewithal to identify and put an end to these efforts, should he so desire. For whatever reason, that hasn't happened.

6-If Charles is a benevolent force in this equation, then given his background as an expert problem solver, we might expect to see some marked improvement in the functioning of the forum. If he is here to bring Avalon down, on the other hand, we might expect increased disruption and discord. Should the latter be true and in light of what Inelia has called his "off the charts" psychic abilities, we might also expect to see some seemingly erratic and completely out of character behavior from some of our core people.

Which theory is better supported by the observable evidence?

In response to- " if anyone does not like me, my style, my values, my principles, my stand on anything and everything, or the way I try my best to lead this team by setting an example everywhere I go, then damn you, and leave now."

My allegiance is to the ideals and principles upon which Avalon is based, the same ideals and principles which you have fought so long and hard to uphold and protect. It seems to many that we have gotten somewhat off course in pursuit of that quest of late. I don't see it as wise to institute a democratic restructuring of decision making at this time. Neither do I see it as wise to close all discussion of the issue with a "my way or the highway" type ultimatum. From my perspective, we've got some problems that need to be dealt with and some grievances that need to be aired. I have been and will continue to attempt to facilitate that process to the best of my ability. If you or members here don't see that as constructive, let me know and I'll either redirect my efforts or take them elsewhere.

I'm very sorry that recent events have been so hard on you, Bill and humble apologies if anything I've done or failed to do added to your burden. I guess we're all doing the best we can with the cards we've got. I sincerely believe we'll get through this and come out of it stronger than we were. I will in any case continue to work toward that end.

Namaste

Rick

Addendum- I don't feel retracting this post would at this point be appropriate. However, I likely wouldn't have posted it had I first read Burke's post http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?15437-An-important-announcement-following-the-closure-of-the-WORM-TONGUE-thread&p=163605#post163605 and I will endeavor to make any future posts more in line with the wisdom he expressed. Again, I can't thank you enough for your words. They well and truly floored me.

[Flash]

Please start another thread if you have a need for dialogue or cross talking.

I think I write reasonably clearly what my intentions are and why. I write long posts to cover all the issues in a deep way. If that is not your cup of tea, then do not click on this thread.

No you don't, at least not to me. Is it a quesiton of cross languages problems or cryptic analogies? but I still do no follow.
In communication, the comprehension of the recipient always rest on the communicator's shoulders (if everyone tought and behaved in those lines, communication problems would be very rare - rarissime).
I do not understand yet,
I have seen some other of your posts where I did understand, so it may not be only my problem this time around.

Anyhow, help me to understand.

what is the topic, what are the objectives? answers to this to start with may help me (a new experiment? about Charles threads? I do not understand!!) Hopefully I will catch it in your other postings, when this happens, if it does, I will be in the thanks section. Until then, I will ask because it truly frustrates me.

[write4change]

[B]COMMUNICATION PROBLEMS[/

The synchronicity of the universe is with you Flash. But with the language problems you will just have to hang with the flow. The next topic of communication skills is brought up on Post 748 by the beautiful Belle. She writes about how difficult it was to communicate with her husband and how she had to reframe and reframe over and over to get herself understood and then things were worked out. Some one could post her post of 748 after this, if they think it is necessary.

These are facts we need to put in the front of our minds. If you look at brain cartology on an MRI which lights up differently in response to different kinds of stimulus; when women listen their brain lights up in 8 different places, when a man listens his brain lights up in just four places.
I think that makes sense from women's enhanced sense of vulnerability--she and her children were not only vulnerable to the environment but the moods of her mate. Men only had to deal with prey and their environment.

This site is made up of, we think, from a poll of about 60 to 40 ratio of men to women. Until this change, our mods/admins were 14 to 3 men to women. Almost all of those men are always discussing/justifying the "normal male response." We women just prick our ears up more.

It is not by accident that a site which talks about the coming of the Divine Feminine and protecting the Earth as our Mother is manifesting major problems of communication between men and women. I am for hanging this out more in our awareness.

[Flash]

COMMUNICATION PROBLEMS[/

The synchronicity of the universe is with you Flash. The next topic of communication skills is brought up on Post 748 by the beautiful Belle. She write about how difficult it was to communicate with her husband and how she had to reframe and reframe over and over to get herself understood and then things were worked out. Some one could post her post of 748 after this, if they think it is necessary.

These are facts we need to put in the front of our minds. If you look at brain cartology on an MRI which lights up differently in response to
different kinds of stimulus, [B]when women listen their brain lights up in 8 different places, when a man listens his brain lights up in just four places.I think that makes sense from women's enhanced sense of vulnerability--she and her children were not only vulnerable to the environment but the moods of her mate. Men only had to deal with prey and their environment.

This site is made up of we think from a poll of about 60 to 40 ratio of men to women. Until this change our mods/admins were 14 to 3 men to women. Almost all of those men are always discussing/justifying the "normal male response." We women just prick our ears up more.

It is not by accident that a site which talks about the coming of the Divine Feminine and protecting the Earth as our Mother is manifesting major problems of communication between men and women. I am for hanging this out more in our awareness.

Believe it or not I went to look at your profile to see if you were male of female (if you would have been a male, I would have tought: "now I understand! lol ").

I do agree and understand this response of yours, I often felt the differences in this forum about the genders as well. By asking for topic and objectives I was obvioulsy working on my male environment trainiing (namely work) 4 wheels vehicule. Being a women, I will now shift to 8 wheels and let you go with the experiment,

I will try to follow, relying on the 4 extra wheels I have.

Guys, you may find it bumpy! But fun!

[Anchor]

As requested post #748


Well, to say that this has been an interesting few days would be quite an understatement! Painful, yes. Necessary, absolutely.

Many here have spoken about "divide and conquer" or "divide and rule". It appears to me more of a case of spiritual math: "divide and multiply".

A little story here...My ex-husband and I had some communication problems. When I would say something, he'd look at me like I had two heads and both of them were speaking gibberish. I learned to rephrase, over and over again, sometimes over a period of days. At some point, he would finally get it and would say, "why didn't you just say that to begin with?" Well, I had. It just wasn't said in a manner he could understand. We all communicate differently.

To me what appears to be happening is people are re-grouping...moving around to find not only like-minded people, but those who communicate in the same way. Through all of what has happened here, each person has stated a desire to protect Avalon and the "magic" that happens here. The disagreement seems to be about how best to accomplish that, and hence the "battle" for control.

There are many paths to the same goal. Those who have left are blazing their own trail, their own path to the same goal and will attract others...and so more people awaken and grow and learn, drawn by what resonates with them.

Just my thoughts.....

[aikya]

?????????????????????????????????

[write4change]

ATTEMPTED COUP

Mark2112 on post #763 wrote the most succinct analogy about our manifestations and attempted coups. This is being displayed around the world. TPTB are openly snatching rights. In the US the governor of Wisconsin is trying to deprive public workers the right of collective bargaining and he tried to get the people to support him by making them jealous over their own already private lost rights. So far the people have stood together there.

But the tensions between those who would control and those tied of being controlled are surfacing everywhere. When you look at personality profiles, there is an element of being DNA as a society for balance. When that gets out of wack we have major sociological problems and we have heavy PTB propaganda to suppress who we are. Bill is an idealist almost from head to toe. An idealist in many ways finds it hard to believe that total self promotors, which is a negative expression of artisans, exist. For a rational like I am, I appreciate some of the power of promotors but I think they are controlled by their own rational self interest but sometimes the need for control that comes with that is so heavy that they will destroy themselves as well as you in the process.

Before I got kicked in the face and I had money and property, the first take down which in truth I was never able to really recover from, was from a stunningly beautiful 35 year old woman who was totally a self promotor. How did this happen? First, I wanted to believe. I was still grieving my daughter's death but I think I have a handle on it. You never totally have a handle on your vulnerabilities that is why the healthy have true friends, and are true friends, by reflecting each other strengths and weaknesses back to them. Great friends only call to your strengths. Really bad friends encourage your weaknesses and make you vulnerable to their control.

In my eyes, this young woman looked like I believed my daughter would look if she had lived. She had great skills with horses and lots of enthusiasm with her self promotion. I could see her weaknesses, she had no education really to speak of and no history of leadership. But I think I can mentor her all through this. I think we are on the same page of creating a private equestrian academy for girls as a way of empowering them. She does lead me to believe she is receptive to this and I think and I am sure I am imply that she would inevitably be my heir which at this time would be quite a lot. At this time I am furnishing her with a three bedroom two bath home and all utilities paid and 250 a week cash 1997. I have three vehicles she has access to a cadillac, a bronco, and a dual cab big heavy ford pickup. She wants a red porcshe.

To get the porsche, she presents me with an idea of a four way partnership of holding a major auction for warmbloods next door to the Indio horse show--a major national horse show. The business plan is feasible and she actually has the powers when unleashed with support to get sponsors. One of them was the Christopher Reeve foundation. To make a long story short by using fax machines with contracts, she was able to maneuver it so that everybody thought they were signing the complete contract but everybody was signing first and then furnished with the completed contract. But the reality was she was collecting the seed money and the only completed contract was with her. So if she had succeeded at this, the only one who would have made actual money was her.

The over stepping triggering event: she had hooked up on the internet with the sixth ranked German rider who would never qualify for the Olympics in his country to come and see if he would work out of my ranch and consider changing citizenship. He was as blond blue eyed good looking as she was. They got quite an online thing going. He flies out for the Christmas Holidays. From what she tells me, I think this is all so cool. When she goes to pick him up at the airport, he has brought his partner and he is gay. She brings him to the ranch and then splits.

Turns out she held herself out to be the owner of the ranch and that she had worked out a deal to put my ranch up for collateral for a ranch in Mallibu for the two of them to lease. He only had clients of ten thousand a month and where I was you were never going to get that. Well, the moment she picked him up; he knew she had lied to him and that she didn't own anything. His frame of reference was quite a bit above mine so I asked him how he instantly knew and he ran off a list of dead giveaways in his point of view that once he pointed them out I could clearly see. So since I was hosting him in LA and willing to drive them around the sights, etc. he spent hours telling me tales of the PTB as he saw them. And confessing that once he came out as gay, his father was disinheriting him.

I am telling this story for two reasons: Mark2112 take on a coup is exactly right. Bill told Richard in August his plans for increased membership etc. Bill expressed feeling his need for mods around the world etc. Richard told him he had it completely handled and didn't need help and Bill could not conceive of Richard going anywhere near as far as he did until he locked him out of the board. When you have relationships in which you want to believe in the basic goodness of people, not just your friends, you are very vulnerable not to see dark elements until the lights are turned off.

When this guy is telling me this I know I have a problem, but I think it is fixable. They are going to be here five days and I will talk with her and get this straighten out. I already know she is willing to be a crook but I still do not think she is going to act like a crook. This woman has access to all my local funds. I am just lucky at this time my major funds were in another state but she wipes me out of a 100,000 cash and disappears and leaves me to handle all the auction stuff. Well no body could sue me because I had performed, they just didn't get the money and I had not defrauded anyone but been defrauded. But taking down the Christopher Reed Foundation was not ever going to be really forgiven.

I tell this story so that when I read about Modwiz saying he has been two hours skcping with Charles and he is the real deal. I have strong doubts about the power of discernment that Mod would have to have to determine that. I had been with rich people for 25 years and was no where near into the symbols this guy from Germany had. You have to know what your strengths and weaknesses are and the best con people are the most delightful to spend time just hanging out with.

Bill has been truly open in the way most idealists always are. He has been upfront. I would like the entire board to look at the analysis of him I already did and still stand by. Please someone put up 9eagle9 repost from me on my utopian thread which I think is #134. This is important enough to me that I will wait for it.

[giovonni]

Jai, are you sure thats the correct post # number 135 ?

pssst...i'm the one lying down. :rolleyes:


http://twistedsifter.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/tower-group-of-giraffes.jpg

[giovonni]

Personal Experience with Utopian Concepts post #134 ~ write4change
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?12644-Personal-Experience-with-Utopian-Concepts/page7


Come as You Are,

You have been a gfit today, as I am beginning to see this thread as another failure. However, Bill's post on the process of making teams work allows me to realize that we are still in storming phase and it is true most visions die there. Those that succeed are really worked on.

For you I will tell the Yoda Story.

One of the things I learn in Lax Vegas is that I have a thing for big birds and most of them feel the same about me. At that time, when we stayed there, we stayed at the Troppicana. They had huge halls of connection that had big bird perches in the open. In this situation a big McCaw or Cockatoo have a perch, swing, gym set for birds with their food, water, and play toys. The birds do not get up and fly away because they are smart -- where would they fly to and they have all their needs provided for and in their own way they are social with the right people. Parrots would not have been pets for centuries if that were not true. Because most people have not spent a lot of time observing birds they did not know how smart they are and birds are highly observant.

This was also just at the time we are coming to realize that birds are the descendants of dinosaurs and Alex the African Grey is starting to come into public consciousness. So I would stop and talk to these birds and respect their territory. There were signs saying these birds bite and can break a finger. I am a singer so sometimes I would sing to them Bye Bye Blackbird and Die Fliedermus. Some of them would just go crazy for it and some it made no difference. After a couple of days some would climb down their perch and get on my hands and shoulders.

Birds make almost instant decisions about people. They can love you on sight and they can hate you on sight. I have never been able to change their minds about that. Every flick of a feather lifting of wings tilting of the head is an expression of communication. Before long I had several. I had a big umbrella Cockatoo named Casper with six cats. He had few words but he had this dance. He would get down on the floor and raise his wings up and down, throw his head back and forth, and stamp his feet. All the while saying I'M a Cockatoo cockatoo cockatoo Cock A TOOOO and he would chase the cats around that way. They would run under the chairs, the couch--They were terrified of him. Then he would hop back on his perch and laugh his head off.

Casper was a trip and I have other stories about him. But to keep him happy I kept him in mineral blocks for chewing and he ran thru them all the time. So I was a frequent pet store purchaser of parrot toys. So one day I go in the pet store to buy mineral blocks. I walk in the pet store and something jumps on my head and wraps its tail around my neck and says Mother. At least I heard that in my head as clear as a bell.

This monkey has escaped his cage and now has his hands in my hair and his tail around my neck. Three people had been chasing him. He will not let go to them in any way. I tell them to back off and let me deal with this. I reach up and I feel his soft almost like rabbit fur. It is a long body but a very delicate body. He licks my fingers. And he lets go and I cradle him in my arms. I can see that he is not really a monkey, I am not quite sure what he is but I am reasonably sure he is illegal. He is so sweet and so helpless and so frightened and I know so precious and some thug on a motorcycle is going to buy him.

Having a monkey has never been on my list of things to do. I had heard really bad things about them. I held rigid protect their habitat views. And I had a friend who was a stripper in North Beach San Francisco who had an act with a young Chimpanzee who on retiring had a major problem on her hands. In spite of all this in the back of my mind, I handed over my credit card. This little guy was 1000s, and this was totally out of my character. I then had to buy him a $300 cage. The only book in the store was about spider monkeys which he definitely was not. The store did not have a lot of definitiveness about what to feed him. I also bought a rabbit harness for him.

I have two days to get this all settle down before my husband comes home and gets to see that I have taken leave of my senses. I am reasonably sure this will be his view. When I look in his eyes and rub his tummy, He immediately raises one hand and splits his fingers like the Vulcan sign of live long and prosper. He has the most expressive eyes of any animal I have ever seen. He looks from the depths into the depths. I really love him deeply and instantly. I name him Yoda.

Now I think he is some kind of illegal primate and I need to find a special place for him and force the pet store to give my money back. I find out there is nothing illegal in Nevada about buying any kind of animal. I take him to Sigfried and Roy who have some chimps too. They find him interesting but too small to be effective for anything they do so they don't want him. But they help me do research. He is a gentle gray lemur and there are only about 1000 left in the world and he is about 10 months old and probably from parents stolen from a Florida breeding program but that can't be proved. Officially his provenance is unknown.

So Yoda is mine for now. I make no plans about the future yet. I just want to get to know him. He often walks spontaneously upright on two legs. His hands are very much like three year old human hands. Very soft, very expressive, very delicate, and very sensitive. When he studies your ear--he softly touches absolutely every crook and cranny. Then he will take on big sniff. Give you a little kiss and he is done forever apparently. Lemurs have long noses unlike other primates which produces to my mind many human expressions.

He instantly understood the leash and I projected and he seemed to understand and accept that it was for his protection. He never peed on me. I never saw him masturbate. He learned to used a litter box like a cat almost instantly. He would sit in a high chair with us at the table. He ate fresh fruit and vegetables and some greens. He also like dry cat food and dry koi food. He loved warm oatmeal with butter and raisins. He never just took anything but you could almost feel him ask. He learned to use live long and prosper almost like a high five sign. He was more nocturnal than not and slept most of the day in small dark woven cat basket I hung swinging from the top of the cage. His cage was six feet wide by two by four.

He would sit on my lap and let me brush him with a baby brush and eventually he learned to brush the cats or they let him. He would scratch their bellies and they would lick him and he would high five. He could jump four to six feet in the air straight up. I let him loose in the house occasionally but would watch him because of his jumping I was afraid he would hurt himself more than be destructive. He never was destructive in any way. Once he jumped up on a picture hanging on the wall which then tilted like crazy. He never jumped on another picture. He only had to experience something once to seem to understand it. I had glass tables and a lot of glass shelving. He would sit at the table with his highchair he examined the glass but never jumped on the tables or the shelves. He would jump on the book cases and other high furniture that was wood.

In the evening we would go out on the deck and the grass and he would catch his own crickets. It was obvious he loved doing this and wanted to do it on his own. I once bought him some live crickets at the pet store and he would have nothing to do with them. So at night I would go out with him and let him do his nocturnal hunting. If it was a warm night we would go in and have a little ice cream and if a cold night a little warm oatmeal and then he would go to bed. When I got up in the morning, he would join us for breakfast his favorite thing being peanut butter and toast and then he would go back to bed until twilight.

I took Yoda almost everywhere with me. I let him loose most of the time. The first time I took him car riding, he started exploring the car and then I saw he was going to get down around my feet. I don't know what made me do it but I started picturing in my mind strong clear pictures about if he got near the petals and I had to slam on the breaks even if I had to stomp on him I would. He never went there again. And to my surprise I got like black and white cube type pictures from him. From then on I worked at consciously lowering my mind shields and letting Yoda in.

It was Yoda who taught me how I shielded and how to feel taking them up and down. It is Yoda that I learned to trust and open myself to seeing things different. It was Yoda who began to give me an understanding of what true intimacy is and not to fear it. I think on a whole we teach fear of intimacy so deep that for most people it is totally unconscious.

When bad people or bad things came around I could tell Yoda to hide in my mind and he would. He would curl up under something and not come out until they were gone. We traveled back and forth from California where they stop you at the border and search the car. He would curl up under the passenger seat and never come out til I told him it was safe. And I would tell him to go there about a half hour before we hit the border. In the apartment in California I did not have a cage but made him a cat bed with a cover on the top of a closet shelf and he would just hop up there. Kept his cat box in the bathroom. The apt. was pretty spartan so we let him have free rein there, so he liked to visit.

My husband had his father's grandfather clock there and Yoda love to lean up against that and feel the ticking. I forgot to tell you the minute my husband saw Yoda he understood and never said much about the money. What he did say is with you I never know what I am coming home to. He really seemed to like that. Yoda would shower with him and take baths with me.

From Yoda I changed my mind about a lot of things. That we may not be able to save enough habitats but lots more animals can live with us in our ways than now do. This is not for all people like children are not for all people. I think everyone who wants to expand consciousness should read David Brin's the Uplift Series. It is interesting to me that many ETs have supposedly said science fiction is often more true than not.

It gives me great grief to tell you how Yoda's story ends. He traveled with me to Texas with six cats in the back seat and two parrots and Yoda in the front seat. He lived well with all of us while I built the house in San Antonio we lived on Lake McQueeney. When we moved to San Antonio I had a huge elevated deck built on the house and a cove for Yoda's cage during the nice months. And I would let him out in the evening free to catch crickets and stuff at twilight. I always kept him in sight to protect him and he knew that. By now I know a lot about lemurs and San Antonio has a big island of Lemurs but not gentle grays. So I have found out how much it would cost to buy him a mate from Florida and get San Antonio Zoo to take him and start a breeding program because to loose this species would be tragic. But I put it off because I love him so much.

One night two hawks fly down like dive bombers and rip him apart in front of my eyes and carry him off. Just drops of blood left on the deck. I cried for days and days. I felt like I had sinned against the universe because of my selfishness for keeping him when I knew better. I never thought of predators from the skies. Those hawks came back every day for a week looking for more. I had a low grade migraine for a month. That was in 1990 and I still miss him. Some day I intend to write a children's book about him when I have come to a place of more objectivity which I still do not have. What I want from that story is people considering the possibility of opening our minds to other intelligences as not equal or better or worse than ours but different. And different is always interesting. Maybe it is possible that that great genetic diversity is what is most valuable about this planet.

[Flash]

I don't understand, my thank button does not work it seem, the thank note does not show up.

Therefore I thank you here Write4change, now I do understand where you are going, or rather where you are coming from and the analogy.

[giovonni]

from member ~ Come As You Are ~ post # 137
Personal Experience with Utopian Concepts

I took Yoda almost everywhere with me. I let him loose most of the time. The first time I took him car riding, he started exploring the car and then I saw he was going to get down around my feet. I don't know what made me do it but I started picturing in my mind strong clear pictures about if he got near the petals and I had to slam on the breaks even if I had to stomp on him I would. He never went there again. And to my surprise I got like black and white cube type pictures from him. From then on I worked at consciously lowering my mind shields and letting Yoda in.

http://www.biolib.cz/IMG/GAL/11952.jpg


***********
From write4right~ post # 138
Personal Experience with Utopian Concepts



The Yoda Teachings

Size matters not. Look at me.

Judge me by my size , do you? Hmm? Hmm.

And well you should not.

For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is.

Life creates it, makes it grow.

It's energy surrounds us and binds us.

Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter.

You must feel the Force around you;here, between you, me , the tree, the rock,

Everywhere, yes.

Even between the land and the ship.

The truth, it is!

Do .... or Do not there is no try.

***********

From write4right ~ post # 170, 172
Personal Experience with Utopian Concepts


I will note that I am 46 in these pictures and post menopausal. LOL My opening line at the Mrs. America pageant in Las Vegas is that I am the oldest, the shortest, and the fattest, All true and got a big laugh.

When Maxx died my hair turned white over night. I have kept it that way because I feel I earned it. Women have to live life in all its phases to become all they are because that knowledge of the Divine Feminine has been withheld. When I come back to this I will post what I look like now.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=4653&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1297814988 http://projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=4655&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1297815156

[giovonni]

Your welcome Jai, and yes i can sense your warm :angel: heart within mind

Love to You~Gio

[ulli]

Jai, there is a party at the Important Announcement thread on page 45, you are invited, bring all your friends....

[write4change]

DUMPING FRIENDS

When I was first told the bizarre story last night, my first reaction was to go through my friends and dump them. It is my nature to be pretty either or; I am not much into relativity with friends. But I am almost 66 years old, I know better to act out of any flash in my brain. So I took a cleansing ritual bath and decided to basically sleep on it. It was Ohanajo's post on 837 that got me to put up the pause button for at least a while.

And Koyaunisgatsi post of 745 which poignantly describes the ebb and flow of feelings and how much that is part of all of us. So when Mod asks me a question I have no problem telling him I can think of at least ten different literal ways of skinning a skunk, he can laugh. When he writes back I hope you have no plans for me, he can still laugh when I tell him it is always an option.

Then at post 796 Mystique, talks about that Bill being a man in a body with all its foibles but with principles that shine like a light and it is the light of those principles that attract us. That is one friend calling the higher power of another friend; calling to his strengths and not his weaknesses. We all live in these weak bodies of biochemicals that have been deliberately missed with by additives in our food, waves of who knows what in our air, and the stress of just living. We need to find ways that allow us to communicate by our higher powers in empowering not destructive ways.

My husband and I married as adults. We were two fully formed autonomous people with sovereign souls. I was his third wife and he was my second husband. I had spent ten years single before him and it cost him a million dollars cash to marry me. We were not sure how this was going to work out because we still did not know what we wanted to manifest as much as we knew what we did not want to manifest. And we still live in these bodies.

One of our agreements from day one was that we would always argue in public. We went out to dinner to argue. The more intense the argument, the more expensive the restaurant. I always initiated it because he usually did not know how upset I was. i would sit with it, write it out, and finally put it on short note cards to take with me. Thus, we never raised our voices and we had to stay in places of respect. It was a good marriage.

Now you might say I had options you don't. We could have worked this out dozens of ways--that would have had the same effect. I just hated to cook and he would indulge me. LOL

[modwiz]

A STORY OF LOVE AND HARMONY IN ACTION
by Write4change


This a true story of a third world country that was moving quickly as a small developing nation. It was moving quickly because of a huge influx of western capital and the western sense of entrepreneurial business. And with so called prosperity came ideas of destroying the basic culture of people and villages caring for one another. Western religion also took over.

This began in the 60s. One of the people effected by this was a nurse who worked in one of the nation's major hospitals which were few and far between and not accessible to the general public because if you did not have money you could not get admitted period. There was no insurance and no public safety net. Many of these big hospitals were run by Western Christians. As this nurse watched a young woman bleed out on the emergency room floor she asked how this could be in the nation's interest.

So then she joined a medical missionary hospital run by the Catholic institutions. There Christianity was viewed as performing acts of charity as a from of redemption both personal and societal. This nurse had been a Buddhist all her live and did not want to convert to Christianity. However, she saw Buddhism as she had known it -- detaching from the cares of the world -- as allowing suffering to grow -- not karma being burned.

She consistently studied the sutras. She felt no place in her world for the compassion of the feminine as she experienced it. She came to believe that she was called upon to the reveal the power of the feminine which had no real power to move her world to action. Thus, she gathered 30 housewives together and they made a pact of manifesting compassion every day no matter what. That compassion was to act to cause a woman's hospital and teaching facility to be built. The act was that these 30 women would give two cents every day to the building of the hospital. There was no pay at the end of the month, pay it forward, actually giving in a little box before their home altar of the Buddha the two cents.

In time that goal came to be. This group acquired more members and more focus and women living their lives for this belief system. The woman never formally did the Buddhist hierarchal progression of study or lineage. But her followers called her a master and so she has come to be accepted throughout the Buddhist world and her work given contemplative thought as combining the best of Buddhism and Christianity.

The joy and the radiant health of these followers affected the whole nation and they passed universal health insurance and universal health care. It took 30 years to accomplish but it became like an inevitable push of the river from its source. Today this Buddhist organization has over ten million members and chapters in over 50 countries. The mother house is called the House of Still Thoughts.

I found out about all this by being treated by the Remote Air Medical Mission of American doctors who used to parachute into jungles to heal the hard to reach and now serve 50% of their time in morass of major American cities serving the poor. When they first came to LA we almost had riots of people needing care. They attended 8,500 people the first time and over 10,000 the second. Most of their supplies, most of the money needed, and most of their dentists, all the food, all of the drugs, and much equipment was furnish by this tiny third island that sees itself as having so much compassion for the poor of the USA.

They had a table of books and pamphlets all about their work and philosophy for free but most Americans were not interested in knowing the how of this blessing --- just give it to me. Many of them actually thought the American government provided this service and saw it as a right.
They have a three part motto that they sing with hand motions---there is no one I cannot love, there is no one I cannot forgive, and there is no one I cannot trust. I was rocking along until I got to trust --- a huge deal for me.

One of the things I learned is how this nation makes so much out of so little. While they were here they collect plastic bottles everywhere. They invented and developed a way of making fiber out of used plastic both warm and cool to the touch. Quick to dry, easy to clean, and soft to the touch. It is called microfiber. Many sheets, towels, and fleece blankets made from it. This has been hugely profitable to them. They are the mother of invention of many things like this that get absolutely no publicity in the West.

It was such a pleasure to spend a week with them and learn so much. I wrote many people detailed and expressive Thank You cards and personally delivered them. It was all I had to give. This turned out to be a big deal. Seems most Americans never do anything to say thank you. A year later when they came back everyone remembered me and took even better care of me. My first acupuncture ever because I have taught to believe only in Western Medicine. Needles in the knees, the last ten years of arthritic degeneration gone.

This country is Taiwan. This Buddhism is Tzu Chi. It is the largest NGO in the Chinese speaking world. The master is Cheng Yen who formed the organization officially in 1966. She has the largest feminine following as a feminine spiritual leader. She leads with the Divine Feminine and she has shown its effectiveness.

When I saw Bashi's clip of cat woman and my epiphany I was told to tell this story. To make clear that the power Avalon has to help when it decides what it will bless. This is to show how simple this is every one can do it. If 3,000 people give 2 cents a day for an avalon group to start just a piece of a new conscious way of living---at the end of 8 months you would 4 dollars and 80 cents so as an extra blessing you add 20 cents and have five dollars. Three thousand people times five dollars is $15,000 dollars enough for the land down payment of many places of possibilities for a small group.

What this does is show that the possibility for doing is out there. It is the question of choosing the will to manifest anything. And like the people of Taiwan demonstrated once the blessing starts, it continues to grow when love is used to activate manifestation.

Namaste, one and all.

[modwiz]

Some quotes

Koyaanisqatsi replies to Chicodoodoo



After reading all these posts, I am wondering if a "three strikes" policy should be in place before a member is actually banned permanently. The first strike might be a temporary banning of two weeks, the second a ban of two months, and the third a permanent ban.

It does seem unfair that Richard is kicked out after all of his volunteer service to Avalon. It also seems unfair that there is no moderation mechanism that can be applied to Avalon's "benevolent dictator", Bill Ryan, when he decides to ban someone. Given that other moderators (that may have an inside view of things) may also abandon ship over the extreme punishment (permanent banning) that is applied to a first infraction, a "three strikes" policy might be a useful change to the rules.

Many infractions are surely a result of misunderstandings, which are so easy given the written medium we work with here. And if there is a deliberate attempt to divide and destroy Avalon, through a false-flag or psy-ops or other means, a "three strikes" policy would give Avalon some additional resiliency.

We know the "elite rulers of the world" may have good reason to destroy Avalon. We may have just witnessed such an attempt without being aware of it. Divide and conquer is their method. A "three strikes" policy could help Avalon withstand such meddling in the future.

I support this idea fully. From time to time I post something hastily or full of emotion and the next day I look back at the post and realize how much it actually DOESN'T represent what I feel. I suspect this may be the case for many of us on PA. I find myself in said situation right now, as earlier in this thread(yesterday) I made a post that was very critical of Celine. In short, I basically judged her as being combative and a polarizing force of sorts. I'd like to take this opportunity to publicly apologize for those comments, as I watch whats happening on Avalon and see that I've become part of the problem. Its very easy to say things like "engage your brain before your keyboard", a bit more difficult for people like myself who can get fired up quickly under the right circumstances. At times I can be combative and polarizing myself, hypocritical of me to say such things. Thus is the way of the world I guess, my own view of the world ebbs and flows like water in a bay, as do my opinions sometimes on fixed subjects and situations. I do not believe this to be a flaw, just the way things are, I believe the universe to be the same way. Dual and opposing realities coexisting= our perspective shapes all and our perspectives tend to ebb and flow as well. Maybe we should all have a coke and a smile and detach a bit from these topics for awhile, shake that imaginary weight off our shoulders and start refreshed?


Mystique replies to Rosco



Bill Ryan = Avalon

Avalon = Bill Ryan
You cannot have one without the other.

If you compare ALL that Bill has contributed to this site, then he is no match to anyone here.

Perhaps EVERYONE needs to analyse what drew them to his site in the first place.

Bill is a 'Light' in the darkness that surrounds our world.

People invest their time and emotions into this big family of Avalon, which is why it hurts when some of the family breakaway from here to lick their wounds and move onto greener pastures.

The rest that are left here need to settle back down and help Bill to bring even more 'Light' here.

Hopefully everyone could just put aside a few minutes of their time to send loving and healing thoughts to everyone else who is hurting on this site.

On another note, if Bill is down Dorset way then there is a place here to hang your hat!
No need to freeze yer nuts off in a car!

IMO this it is what Bill stands for.

I think it is the principles that shine through him that I think we are attracted to.

We are attracted to those principles in him because they are in Us - either manifested and resonant, or unmanifested and attractive.

With keeping that in perspective, we can better assist Bill, and anyone else on the Forum, by letting those principles shine through us brighter so we can see our own way, and help brighten the paths of others - including Bill's, just as he shines his light on us and our path.

I think he creates space here for us all to cultivate those qualities to a brighter future.

Thank you Bill.


From Ohanajo



I am one of the new people to this forum and I'll probably be dumped because I don't post enough — this is only my second — but, so be it. It's not a problem; I only post when I have something to say, which I feel hasn't been covered.

Sadly (or thankfully), I missed the Worm Tongue thread because I don't have time everyday — or for days on end to get to the forum. But one thing I noticed about this thread regarding the consequences of the Worm Tongue thread is that everyone needs to slow down and really look around at what is happening in the news, because the same dramas are occurring here.

Look at the drams going on in the Arab nations with the extreme posturing of Gadhafi. Look at Madoff publicly declaring his victims were the guilty parties because of their greed. Look at Charlie Sheen. (Although I try to avoid celebrity nonsense news, this was too much in everyone's face: Adonis DNA; and normal brains can't process him. ??? Think about it — how out there is this?)

While we are wondering why just the Arab nations (at least I do), look closer to home.

Look at your neighbors and friends, and yourself. My sister, in another part of the country, is dumping her drama queen friends who have gone too far. An acquaintance/friend (who has found Christ and is calmer and happier because of this) vehemently, yes vehemently, ranted at me about the scientific truth of Revelations and the Rapture.

Is this behavior normal or behavior that finally goes over the edge to extremes? Is it just a matter of reaching the breaking point from stress?

I don't think so. (My friend is, after all, calmer and happier — her words.)

On the one hand (at least in my area), there seems to be a "lull," but on the other hand, there is ... what? ... an urgency? I don't know, but something is happening on the deepest levels. (It's not the phases of the moon — I thought that at first — it's spread over a larger time span — look at the Egyptians or before, was it the Tunisians, as a possible starting point.) And once that sudden threshold is crossed by a behavior we thought we'd never do (or taking a "negative" behavior gotten away with on a lesser scale to an extreme), everything has changed. It's as if a major decision in a nano second with deep, "unknown," far-reaching consequences has been made.

Sorry to write so much. But we need to look beyond the specific drama because something is very different everywhere.

Very best to all and great big hug to all the players in the drama, Jo

[Ahkenaten]

And having said that, I think we should take a little break to PARTYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ct9aBySJkRQ

[modwiz]

A post from Mark2112

Being a new member here I am reading all this with incredulity, I did not like the forum joining process in the first pace which left me with somewhat of an elitist feeling. I have only posted a couple of times so as such have not been upgraded to full membership. Is this the Avalon forum that I should be aspiring to this great full membership, is this the metaphoric Avalon that people seek? I see some very level headed and intelligent people here but also this forum is rife with cronyism and people with narcissitic personality disorders.

I have a great deal of sympathy for Bill in this, I have enjoyed reading and watching his output for a long time. It seems to be a version of the play that is unfolding in the middle east just now and that he has almost been the victim of some sort of attemped coo. Just watching from afar I believe Bill should have deserved more loyalty and patience than has been shown.

I'll retire once more to be a lurker on the threshold

[Carmody]

from member ~ Come As You Are ~ post # 137
Personal Experience with Utopian Concepts

I took Yoda almost everywhere with me. I let him loose most of the time. The first time I took him car riding, he started exploring the car and then I saw he was going to get down around my feet. I don't know what made me do it but I started picturing in my mind strong clear pictures about if he got near the petals and I had to slam on the breaks even if I had to stomp on him I would. He never went there again. And to my surprise I got like black and white cube type pictures from him. From then on I worked at consciously lowering my mind shields and letting Yoda in.

http://www.biolib.cz/IMG/GAL/11952.jpg


***********
From write4right~ post # 138
Personal Experience with Utopian Concepts



The Yoda Teachings

Size matters not. Look at me.

Judge me by my size , do you? Hmm? Hmm.

And well you should not.

For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is.

Life creates it, makes it grow.

It's energy surrounds us and binds us.

Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter.

You must feel the Force around you;here, between you, me , the tree, the rock,

Everywhere, yes.

Even between the land and the ship.

The truth, it is!

Do .... or Do not there is no try.

***********

From write4right ~ post # 170, 172
Personal Experience with Utopian Concepts


I will note that I am 46 in these pictures and post menopausal. LOL My opening line at the Mrs. America pageant in Las Vegas is that I am the oldest, the shortest, and the fattest, All true and got a big laugh.

When Maxx died my hair turned white over night. I have kept it that way because I feel I earned it. Women have to live life in all its phases to become all they are because that knowledge of the Divine Feminine has been withheld. When I come back to this I will post what I look like now.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=4653&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1297814988 http://projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=4655&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1297815156

I take dogs out for walks.... on the astral planes. They love it.

I make cities, places, worlds.... for them, and we play.

My last pup died two years ago. She still comes to play.

Yoda is still out there. All you have to do...is look.

Everyone, for that matter ...is still here. They have not gone anywhere.



Which begs the question...where have we gone?

[Ahkenaten]

To Continue,


Beowulf slays the Dragon Daghratn
"BEOWULF AND ARTHUR AS ENGLISH IDEALS"
by
SARAH F. McNARY
This essay first appeared in Poet-Lore: A Quarterly of World Literature 6.2 (1894), 528-36.

THE race-ideal is the product of race possibility, moulded into form by the shaping power which lies behind literature, and breathed into life by the divine spark of imagination. In the childhood of the nation the ideal has its birth. It struggles into life with the first urgings of self-consciousness. It grows as the organism grows, waxing greater and more spiritual as the light of imagination shines more gloriously upon it, waning if that heavenly glow be put to baser uses, and perishing utterly when the last faint glimmer fades into the light of common day. To know the successive ideals of a person and of a people is to know that man and race not only in actuality, but in possibility, -- to know the inmost recesses and the farthest outreachings of their natures; for with every people, as with every person, a succession of ideals appears, following the prevailing lines of trend in the nation's history. In the midst of the changes there is a frequent recurrence of one form, which establishes itself in time as the permanent national ideal.
As the race-ideal makes its appearance at an early period, so the earliest forms of literature remain the most fitting for its expression. The epic, with its large opportunities, its endless vista of deeds, is bounded only by the limits of a hero's life. If by its nature the epic claims this place in literature, its origin gives it a double right to claim the setting forth of the race-ideal as its inalienable function; for the singers of the old lays, and the shapers of the epics, had no original concepts to give to the world. They voiced the race-thought, the collective consciousness of the people. So, too, the ideal which sprang up in the old days, and had its roots in the very vitals of the nation, struck an ever deeper hold by virtue of continually added elements of strength. A character whose acts are plainly stamped upon scientifically verified history, who is limited by his actual deeds, who has defined himself to the world by his known relations to the real and the practical, does not readily become the universal, enduring ideal of a race; but if he looms up in the faint, far light of myth and legend, if his potentiality stretches out into an infinity of achievement, he so kindles the imagination that it gladly embraces him as the being in which it would realize itself. The conscious portrayal of the type in literature is of later beginnings and more rapid growth, -- the product of an observing, analytical, scientific age, when imagination has begun to run to seed.
In English literature two main streams -- the Celtic and the Teutonic -- are plainly discernible, though their waters have been mingled for many a century, and have been modified by the influx of many smaller tributaries. To examine the head-waters of these streams, and to see what they have contributed to the English ideal, is the purpose of this paper.
Whether the 'Beowulf' had its origin in nature, myth, or hero-worship, or sober history, or whether it is a combination of all three, is the province of the scholar to determine. The adoption of any one of these theories will not change the æsthetic or ethical aspect of the poem in its present form, nor will it in any degree modify the impress of Teutonism which it bears, the stamp of the Teutonic character and ideals. An analysis of the elements of this character will show how far the early ideal has been realized in the English people, and how long it has endured.
Over the whole poem broods the thought of Wyrd. The atmosphere is gray and misty, like the marsh home of Grendel, and through the grayness go stalking the huge dim forms of the giants and nickers of the northern cult. The gray gloom is a reflection of the conception these folk had of life, as well as a picture of the natural scenery which they daily looked upon. The conditions of life point always in the direction of tragedy. There is, however, no disposition to sit down and weep over the melancholy of it. Beowulf stands up bravely and looks the issue in the face, -- Fate must be fought against, whatever the odds. Brave before all else is this Beowulf, with the bravery of a young, strong, unsoftened people, the physical courage which not only meets an enemy unshrinkingly, but seeks him out to fight with him alone and weaponless. This is the very rapture and madness of bravery, the apotheosis of daring. It is almost imaginative -- rather, it so strips off and defies imagination as to capture that quality by the abnegation of it.
The love of praise and the desire for glory breathing through every utterance in the poem, are not the evidence of a vaulting ambition which seeks its goal through crooked ways, but rather the unrestrained outbreak of the longing for appreciated activity and power. Its root is in the instinct for the ruder kind of self-expression, the impulse to fight, to overcome obstacles by muscular force. Beowulf does not seek to conceal his desire for praise. He boasts of his exploits with a child's simplicity of enjoyment. His age is too far from civilization to have attained the virtue of modesty and the vice of hypocrisy. In spite of this large boastfulness, there is a temperance in his judgment of men and things, which predicates balance of temperament and strong wisdom in the race which produced him.
The spirit of loyalty that has already grown, in Beowulf's time, into a racial institution, is strongly impressed upon the poem. The duty of the thegn to his lord, a service resting upon sentiment as well as upon necessity, is performed heartily. The germ of feudalism and the prophecy of chivalry are here discovered, but it is only a germ as yet. Scarcely a hint of the love sentiment is to be found anywhere. Woman is seen in various relations, occupying always a position of dignity, and inspiring those feelings of respect, that sense of her inviolability, which is the great honor of the Teutonic race; but the tenderer feeling that nourished feudalism into chivalry is quite beyond the pale of Beowulf's experience.
In spite of the interpolations by a later Christian editor, the poem is pagan and of the essence of paganism. The old fragment touching the Passing of Scyld hints at the mystery of birth and death; but aside from this there is no looking beyond that after-mystery, no dwelling upon the possibilities of the hereafter. The whole work is an embodiment of the idea of practicality. Beowulf died, not to establish a principle, but to secure the golden hoard of the fire-drake, and therefore the funeral dirge of this hero knells him out of the memory of men. The history of Beowulf is the pathos of paganism and of the material. It has been said that this is a half-finished epos, benumbed in the midst of its growth. It lies frozen because it is the imperfect ideal of a single, unmixed race; because it is wanting in elements that lay hold upon the higher imagination; because it was never touched by that "natural magic," that divine spark which is of the essence of immortality. But though Beowulf, as a single concrete character, passed so early out of English thought, the elements of his being passed into the English people, and he lives to-day in enduring qualities. He appears in history and literature in varied forms. He lives the free life of law-abiding lawlessness with Robin Hood in Sherwood Forest. His loyalty breathes again in Shakespeare's Faulconbridge, -- a loyalty deepened into reverence for the kingly office, and into love of race and country. He reaches England's heart through the kindly and kingly heartiness of Henry the Fifth. He stirs the English blood to go over seas on adventure in the great days of Elizabeth. He fights again with Nelson and the Iron Duke. Was his struggle with the dragons all in vain, when a dragon-slayer is patron saint of England? If Beowulf is no longer an ideal in the higher sense, it is because he has been lived into a type.
The course of thought in Anglo-Saxon times was comparatively simple, uniform, and continuous. The race was virtually a unit, in spite of transfer of abode, conquest by continual fighting, and the introduction of a new religion. The Germanic races are stable in quality, and do not easily change. With the Norman Conquest came a new spirit with a new people, -- a spirit of intellectual struggle and achievement, an impulse to search for new ideas and forms of expression, and to assimilate them with the old. The growing mind of the nation acquired an unwonted freedom of movement, the result of which is seen in the onward sweep of development of all phases of life. Then the literary ideals of the English people began to grow up into lusty youth. If among them all one can be found which appears and reappears; which out of small yet vigorous beginnings grows and changes and develops as the nation advances; which has in it an alluring element that haunts the imagination of poets, and lives on in the affections of the common people, -- this may be called the English ideal. Therefore it is that Geoffrey of Monmouth's 'Historia Britonum' forms perhaps the most significant achievement of the new time. This lover of legend and of folk-lore gathered from old writers of prose and verse, from legend, tradition, and myth, out of his own Celtic fancy as well, the tale of the deeds of the British kings from the remotest times to his own day. The richness of the Celtic material from which he drew, the intricate mazes of fancy opened up by recent investigations of that material, contrast strongly with the simpler forms of Teutonic legend. The earliest Arthur, from one point of view, suffers by comparison with Beowulf, for the morals in early Celtic literature will not always bear examination. What, then, is the secret of the charm? It is nothing else than the exuberance of the fancy, the brightness of the coloring, the invitation to boundless imaginative expansion, the germ of morality in the midst of unmorality, which gave it the possibility of endurance. The old dreams and memories which the deeds of Arthur and the prophesies of Merlin aroused in the conquered Celts, awakened into fresh stirrings and hopes, a keener intellectual life for the new-born English; and the Celts became conquerors of the Teutons in a higher sense than they knew, for they gave a hero not to the English only, but to all the world as well. It is beyond the province of this paper to trace the spread of the story over France and Germany and elsewhere. England has the sole claim upon our thought.
In the old Welsh tales Arthur appears, according to some scholars, first as a culture hero, or personification of a nature myth, then as a historic leader of the Britons, and conqueror of the Saxons in twelve battles. Later, when the Charlemagne cycle had come into England to influence British tradition, Arthur grew into a mighty king and world-conqueror, supernaturally endowed and guarded. The splendors of his court and the glorious achievements of his knights, the atmosphere of the marvellous and of the mysterious, as well as of the chivalric and the heroic, which surrounded him, fascinated England and France alike, and reaches down to our own day.
Soon after Geoffrey, Alfred of Beverley wrote the tales in Latin, Geoffrey Gannar put them into Anglo-Norman verse, and Wace followed with the account of the Round Table. Then came Walter Map, who gathered other tales into the Arthur cycle, added the Quest of the Graal, and thus emphasized the element of mysticism, the soul of Christian spiritualization.
It was Layamon who first brought Arthur into English verse, when, at the beginning of the thirteenth century, he drew from the oral traditions of the people on the borderland of Wales, united them with English legends and traces of ancient Germanic myths, made a foundation structure of the work of Wace, and built upon it a noble poem. In it Arthur is made a larger, more poetic, more spiritual character, and the stories about him are told with touches of fine imagination.
From this time rhymers and romancers were not long wanting, who told the old tales in their own fashion. At last came Sir Thomas Mallory, to put into strong prose the composite story, which holds one yet by the deathless power of true romance. From this time the treatment of Arthur in great poetry is not for the sake of the story only, but with the distinct acceptance of the ideal significance of the character, the product of centuries, from the age when the Celtic myths of Cloudland had their birth. Spenser brings him into the realm of Faerie, as the embodiment of the soul's ideal of itself. Divested of his old surroundings, and separated from his fellowship of knights, he seems unlike the Arthur we have known; but this shows in what fashion he has established himself in English thought, and how much more than the hero of myth, or legend, or romance, he has become. From this time he haunts the imagination of English poets. For years Milton held in his mind the Arthur cycle as the possible subject of his great epic, but was kept from it by the stern bent of a genius which drew away from humanity to deal with themes more remote and awful. Dryden contemplated the same subject when he too dreamed, as every poet does, of writing an immortal epic. And all the while 'Beowulf' lay covered with the dust of centuries, and without the power of life to claim a place in living literature.
Arthur has come into this century with a yet deeper significance. With all the old romantic coloring, with the splendor and the beauty of Celtic fancy, with the dash and daring of chivalric adventure, with the softening of the old mysticism, and with the allegorical spiritualism of Spenser humanized into flesh and blood, the King Arthur of Tennyson adds to all this the nineteenth-century conception of the meaning of life.
We have then set side by side the rude yet dignified figure of the Beowulf of the dim, half-savage age of continental Teutonism, and this Arthur who belongs to all time and is claimed by all peoples. Beowulf remains in his place because he is set in a narrower mould of nationalism; but Arthur has gone beyond his primitive race and country into a cosmopolitan realm. Beowulf towers and looms through the chill gray mist of the marshes; but the warm passionate smoke of mystical incense softens the noble and splendid figure of Arthur. Fate broods over Beowulf; the Christian notion of sin and atonement vitalizes the Arthurian literature. Merlin guides him with his counsel and occult power, and the Lady of the Lake is his help; but the counsellor that Beowulf knows best is the practical wisdom of his own mind. When a deed is to be done, the firm, well-proved strength of his own body must accomplish it; no mysterious hand holds out to him a supernatural weapon. Arthur fights with a charmed sword, and is protected from hurt by a magic talisman. In Beowulf is the magnifying of the practical; in Arthur is the concrete presentment of spiritual symbol. In the old story Arthur did not die, but sailed away to return again. In a deeper sense he cannot die, for he has touched the infinite issues of life and death.


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Champion Llyswen Foreign Affair at Rumney, HC "Merlin"

Photo of Merlin

This true Welshman (yes, he is actually from WALES) has a terrific temperament, a beautiful head and expression, a gorgeous outline (with the proper proportions of height to body length as called for in the standard), excellent bone and nice short hocks. He is a showman from the word go, and went Winners Dog the first time he stepped into an American dog show ring! He finished his American championship in grand style. His two five point majors were garnered by going Winners Dog at the presitgious Pembroke Welsh Corgi Club of the Potomac under English breeder-judge Simon Parsons (Deavitte) and Winners Dog and Best of Winners for his second five point major at the Mayflower Pembroke Welsh Corgi Club Specialty under breeder judge Lynn Brooks (Busy B). Shown only eleven times, Merlin finished in only six weeks of showing! Before coming to the US, Merlin qualified for showing at Crufts where he won the Limit Dog Class. Merlin is OFA 3082G/41M (Hips) and TH2/41M (Thyroid). He is CERF #1565. He has tested free of Von Willebrand's Disease (120%). His first children are making their appearances in the show ring now. Unfortunately, he is no longer standing at stud.

Merlin's Pedigree


Cordach Mastercopy of Hildenmanor
Pemland Royal Command
Pemland Court Dancer
ENG. CH BELROYD NUTCRACKER (UK Stud Dog Record Holder)
ENG CH BLANDS SONNY BOY
ENG CH BELROYD JACANA
Belroyd Gay Bird
ENG. CH. LLYSWEN BREAK EVERY RULE (Crufts BoB, 1994)
Cordach Mastercopy of Hildenmanor
Pemland Royal Command
Pemland Court Dancer
Llyswen Beauty
ENG CH BELROYD HYPERION
Abergarin Crystal
Stormerbanks Bear With Me
LLYSWEN FOREIGN AFFAIR AT RUMNEY "Merlin"
Cordach Mastercopy of Hildenmanor
Pemland Royal Command
Pemland Court Dancer
ENG. CH BELROYD NUTCRACKER (UK Stud Dog Record Holder)
ENG CH BLANDS SONNY BOY
ENG CH BELROYD JACANA
Belroyd Gay Bird
Rumney Dream Girl of Llyswen
ENG CH BELROYD NUTCRACKER
ENG CH BLANDS LIMITED EDITION OF BELROYD
Blands Lovelorn
Rumney Cantata (BoB Winner)
ENG CH PEMLANDS AMBASSADOR
Rumney Another Wonder
Rumney Wonderful Dream


Jimanie
Stephanie S. Hedgepath, 131 Minnie Fallaw Rd, Lexington, SC 29073
(803) 755-1757
Email jimanie@welshcorgi.com

[aikya]

To Continue,


Beowulf slays the Dragon Daghratn
"BEOWULF AND ARTHUR AS ENGLISH IDEALS"
by
SARAH F. McNARY
This essay first appeared in Poet-Lore: A Quarterly of World Literature 6.2 (1894), 528-36.



Ahkenten, I'm confused...is this something write4change has asked you to post as part of her narrative?

[modwiz]

Bills problems are our problems we are all one



Bills sense of adventure by Sepia
Well.... Just before you cry too many tears:

Bill was a mountaineer.

This picture is from his album and shows him in the Himalayas. He loves unusual situations and adventures...

To sleep in the car with a sleeping bag instead of taking a room in a Hotel was his own choice and certainly no drama.

5444[/QUOTE]



Pride by Maria Stade

I must agree with this gentle soul.

By not being honest about the situation, needed help did not come.

I know all about pride and how it can make our life more difficult that is has to be.

Friends help friends, sharing and giving.

I hope that you will not continue this path and learn from this lesson of life.

Are you still living in a car Bill ?

This forum is full of sensitive and gentle souls there are many ways to help !

Healing has begun !

Love to all.

Maria


Character Assassination

"In practice, character assassination may involve doublespeak, spreading of rumors, innuendo or deliberate misinformation on topics relating to the subject's morals, integrity, and reputation. It may involve spinning information that is technically true, but that is presented in a misleading manner or is presented without the necessary context. For example, it might be said that a person refused to pay any income tax during a specific year, without saying that no tax was actually owed due to the person having no income that year, or if a person was sacked from a firm, even though they may have been made redundant rather than actually fired.Cults use character assassination as one of their tactics to obtain mind control."....wikipedia


Needing to activate paypal by Perfectresonance

Actually, it is probably time for another round of Paypal donations for Bill.

Bill is not going to ask unless he's on his last rice cracker, so here it goes:

CONSIDER A DONATION NOW

[modwiz]

Bill's Response to it all


Please let me de-confuse you - and a number of others. A few of you understand what has happened. Many (include some of the ex-mods) do not.

Take deep breath and read all of what follows. Then you will understand.

--------

Dear Friends:

Some questions need to be answered, and I'll answer them as best as I can. I'm quite tired (I have not slept last night at all) but I'll give it my best right here.

1) The moderators have been under considerable pressure because of (a) a massive influx of new members, and (b) an understandable anxiety that control over the forum was somehow being lost and that there was some kind of danger.

There was no firm consensus about how to handle this. I made all the calls in that situation.

2) Meanwhile, a number of new mods came on board to enlarge the team. These were all very fine people but some had far less experience than (e.g.) Ross, the oldest hand at 2.5 years.

3) There were several (maybe 4 or 5) instances where I overruled a fairly major moderator decision. One of those was when Richard banned Gypsy Woman (GW) for 30 days. I changed that to 7 days and then banned Spirit Wolf for 7 days as well. Richard told me yesterday that he agreed with that.

There was another instance when a major thread was closed (the first Charles Questions thread) when I wanted it to stay open. I was very concerned that this was managed properly and I gave Richard a lot of direction after he had closed it with (in my view) an announcement that could have been better and was not as well thought through as it could have been.

I also vetoed Charles' donations proposal after I had heard about it via Dale without having been approached or consulted. (This was not Dale's fault at all.)

4) Kerry posted a piece on her blog which upset Celine. She started an aggressive, critical thread (against Kerry, defending me) which was in a private, moderators' area to which she had access. (We do have some private areas to discuss things backchannel, as you would fully expect.)

Several other mods chipped in with posts. I noticed that a member had started another thread with much the same title, so I merged them. When a thread from a private area is merged with a thread in a public area, the default is that the merged thread is publicly visible. I did not notice this, and Celine was appalled that I had made her private comments about Kerry publicly viewable.

It was an accident, but she did not believe me. To this day, she regards it as a deliberate betrayal.

I was challenged by Richard, who was angry in defense of Celine, who is his wife. I pointed out that the fix was to move the sensitive posts to a private area immediately and leave the merged thread where it was. Richard, for some reason, would not do that. 20 mins later, I moved the posts myself. That was one of the cracks in the edifice to which Celine makes repeated reference.

5) Meanwhile, the mods were losing trust in Dale, who was accused by several (including Celine) of leaking moderator information to Charles. I know Dale, and he is a man of the highest integrity. I stood up for him and gave him my full support in a position where some mods mistakenly thought that they could vote him out. I told them that was not going to happen.

6) After one minor disagreement (with Beth, about a relatively small issue), Richard suddenly said to me that either Dale must go or he would go. I thanked him, and told him that Dale was going nowhere.

Richard went offline for two days and then returned with a proposal that he presented to the mods for 'voting'. The proposal included that I would not longer have access to the moderator control panel, through which bans are made, modified or lifted.

Richard made general references to my "diktats' and "vetoes". I told him that while the forum was experiencing challenges, I would remain at the wheel. I said I would hand over the wheel to him when the forum was operating normally, and not before. I told him that I would continue to have access to the mods control panel.

I was not unpleasant, but I made it clear that my stance was not up for discussion or vote.

7) We then established another private area for moderator chat. Celine did not want Dale involved. I insisted that no moderator should be left out. To assuage concerns about security, I asked everyone to attest in writing that they would keep all matters confidential. The intention was to provide reassurance that sensitive matters would go nowhere.

Somewhere in there, to defend Dale, I copied to the mods a Skype chat which Celine had sent to me privately saying that she did not trust Dale. Celine regarded that as another betrayal. In the meantime, Celine's error has continually been that she regards herself as a kind of quasi-moderator, which she is not and never has been. She is a member of the forum like any other.

It is this crossing of administrative lines, and the resultant intolerable stress on Richard, which has caused a great deal of the recurring problems.

8) So now we're in the new private area, and we discuss aspects of Charles' testimony which were off-record, the 'Enlightened material', and the 'Heather' material. Then Celine started a thread on Gypsy Woman which (like the Worm Tongue thread) started off badly and went downhill from there.

I was stating clearly that GW was not part of the Heather problem, which we were trying to troubleshoot. (This was another source of disagreement: Some mods wanted her banned. I wanted to let it roll.)

Celine insisted that GW was in some way implicated in a planned and conspiratorial destructive offensive of some kind against the forum, and had personally collected a large amount of private material to prove her point (e-mails, Skype tests, and PMs from many members). I was horrified, but read in detail what was presented as a kind of dossier.

I could see that Celine had clearly misinterpreted one paragraph and assigned it entirely the wrong meaning - that GW had known Heather before she arrived at Avalon. This was categorically not the case. I refused to have her demonized, as Dale had been. See below for more on my anti-witch-hunt stance.

In the dialog, Celine suggested that I had lied to the members of the forum (as she did again earlier today). That infuriated me. I pushed back strongly, and asked her to please leave the forum.

By then I had had enough. Several members have, in my opinion, correctly identified all of Celine's various characteristics. It is not my purpose here to crucify her. But there had been a growing problem inasmuch as Celine would gain the ear of many members and would report essentially private information to Richard and others. She was acting as a kind of plant in the troops' camp.

Because much of this was absolutely uncontrollable (and rightly so) - Skype, PMs, and Avalon chat - it was not my place to control that. But it was a growing problem in which Celine was talking to many people about many other people, frequently, and acting as a two-way swinging door.

Meanwhile, Charles would find out what was happening on Avalon behind the scenes simply by calling Celine, asking her, and listening carefully. It was like turning on the television to get the news.

Someone like Charles - even with no ill-intention - was obviously going to utilize that source of intelligence in whatever way he could. In his position and in his shoes, I would have done the same. The only person who had any control over Celine - Richard - was doing nothing about this.

It came to a head when I became so infuriated and irritated - at the culmination of this GW thread that Celine had started - that I wrote this personal post which I copy below.

For anyone who does not know who I am - read this. Zook, shame on you: I recommend that you read it also. You are proud to form strong opinions at the same time as admitting to having done almost no research to base those opinions on. An intellectual process that I would not recommend.

What follows is very slightly edited to preserve a couple of off-record items.
A personal statement.

I too considered resigning about an hour ago. I waved it away, because I'm sure it was intended.

But I am angry and disappointed at the fact that not one person saw (or said they saw) what was happening for what it was. You're meant to be smarter than that.

I was being maligned. Distrusted. Made the village-criminal-in-the-stocks scapegoat for a huge amount of emotional charge that had nothing to do with me.

This is a private party - a poor metaphor that we all use (mea culpa) - and if anyone does not like me, my style, my values, my principles, my stand on anything and everything, or the way I try my best to lead this team by setting an example everywhere I go, then damn you, and leave now.

Make your call and make your stand.

I am friendly, patient, tolerant, supportive, more sensitive than you will ever know, highly intelligent, gifted in a number of ways, detail-oriented, precise, creative, eternally positive. I have never lied to the membership and I have never lied to you, Celine - damn your paranoid accusations, which are crazy and which hurt.

I am almost always positive. I bust a gut to deal with everything that comes my way. Very, very, very few people could do what I do and do it well. I carry more on my shoulders than you will ever know. I have fixed and handled more than you will ever know. I have freed more beings than you will ever know. I care more about and take direct personal responsibility for more than you will ever know.

I defend underdogs. I defend people who have been attacked for no reason. It's my style. If you think what you saw here was 'ego', you know nothing about me.

I'll tell you a story. Sepia knows. it. I also told Inelia the other week. No-one else knows. I never talk about it. I'll make it brief.

At aged 24, I was a junior housemaster at Millfield School in England - Britain's most expensive private school. One of the boys - aged 13 - was being bullied. This kid, who was Iranian, summoned all his courage and went to the headmaster himself to ask for help. His appointment was at 9 am.

At 10 am he was found hanged. The headmaster denied that the kid had been to see him. I gathered evidence to show that he was lying. I confronted him personally and told him that he was covering it all up. I then went to the press - and quit. It was front page news all over England in 1977.

Many of the kids AND STAFF thanked me for making a stand. That was the first time I collided with someone at the top of a pyramid.

I vowed then that for the rest of my life I would always stand up to defend someone who was being unjustly attacked or put down. And that I would always take to task those who were the unjust persecutors. It was a vow.

Meanwhile, not one person here got in touch with me behind the scenes to say: hey, buddy, you're having a tough time there with that crazy woman who will not lie down or shut up. Just ignore it. And well done for sticking to the facts and for defending your integrity and your principles, and for having the courage to defend someone who was being unjustly accused.

Not one of you has yet done this.

Just keep on blaming me for all of Avalon's problems. Not a word about how hard I am working to create articulate, inspiring, positive posts. Not a word about how I am the reason most people are here in the first place. Not a word about the things people say on the WELCOME thread when they arrive. Just continuous criticism, carping, negativity, nitpicking, and blame.

Leave now or commit to stay. Decide right now.

I've learned to handle everything I do on my own. I am immensely self-sufficient. I am extraordinarily strong. I get hurt and rarely show it. While the donations hiatus was doing its dramatic thing three weeks ago, I was sleeping in my car in a sleeping bag in temperatures several degrees below freezing and getting moved on by the police at 3 am because I was running the engine to keep warm. I never breathed a whisper about that. Because it didn't matter. But maybe I say too little about myself sometimes.

One piece of information that Charles shared with me back in August was that I am a unique individual and have been the subject of great interest because of that (and, simultaneously, became a problem).

It's because of my bloodline. I will not go into details. King Arthur was apparently a real-life ancestor. The Camelot connection was an unconscious RE-connection. Charles' 18 is because he is wanting to recreate the Knights of the Round Table. He sees me as the Second Coming of Arthur. He's doing this in a way that is causing various kinds of chaos - but he means well. It's the walk-on-red crossing of all administrative and procedural boundaries and guidelines that has caused all the many problems.

You can all be forgiven for not following the twists and turns. These have been highly complex.

Two people pretty much understand what has happened: Sepia and Inelia. Each operating in different ways, they both have the perception to understand the big picture. I don't think anyone else has much of a clue. You are not to be blamed for that, though I tried to spell it out as clearly as i could.

But your lack of trust that I was tracking it all and knew what I was doing - even when things got tricky - was palpable.

I understand that this comes from fear. Fear of loss, fear of being out of control, fear that the guy in charge has no clue what he's doing. The guy in charge does know what he's doing, but he's human.

And that - Celine - is not a euphemism for being some kind of liar: it's a euphemism for the fact that each one of the little comments you make, and each one of the little thoughts you think, hurts. But this, right now, is the closest that you will ever see of me losing control.

My request to you all: Be bigger than you have been. Trust more than you have been. Be more positive than you have been. Inject more positive energy into the forum than you have been. If you want to analyze and criticize with an intention to fix perceived problems, be clear, specific, intelligent, and constructive.

The forum is a microcosm of the world. This will intensify. It will get more crazy as time goes on through 2011 into 2012, and as numbers increase. We will lose people. We'll lose moderators. We'll lose friends. All that is part of life and part of the learning that we're in the middle of.

Timelines are changing, and this has started. We're winning, but we have not won yet, because the process needs to continue for another couple of years. We do have the opportunity to be a model for a new world.

But the measure of a person, or an organization, is not whether one has problems. Successful people, and successful organizations, have huge problems. It's about how they are handled, what learning takes place, and whether the issues recur.

Think on all this. Maybe read it again tomorrow. If you can bear to, read it all from the start and then read this final post again.

Now I am closing this thread, which should never have been opened.
********

I received strong support from half the team, and most of the non-moderator members of that group. Two of them wrote to me to say that they were so fiercely angry at what Celine had been saying to me - and about me - that they were unable to know how to respond (and did not do so - which I understand). There was a deafening silence from Beth, Richard and Fred, which I heard clearly. I let it go. It was an interesting personal experience.

9) Now we arrive at a few nights ago. I had been offline almost all week. (Note that I have to positively log off to be seen as absent from the forum. If I put my laptop to sleep, I am still seen as online. I have not been there very often at all while at the Phoenix UFO Congress.)

I was in the middle of reading two virulent PMs from Gypsy Woman. I was trying to understand what she was saying, and was intending to reply. In the middle of that, I noticed that she had suddenly been banned.

I went on to the mods chat, and saw that Richard had banned her permanently. I unbanned her immediately. I wanted to know more what had happened and was still catching up. By this time, I did not trust Rich's decisions.

Richard was incredulous. He, Beth and Zook all left the chat immediately (the equivalent of walking out of the room or putting the phone down). My stance, which I explained, was that it might well be right to ban her, but I wanted more information first.

It has always been my belief that GW had been enraged beyond her personal limit of stability by attacks and circumstances which she felt she had little control over. She over-reacted wildly, but in my view she was never the source of the problems. They lie elsewhere.

Richard then removed my Avalon admin control panel access - which left me incredulous. It was a direct challenge. I gave Richard one hour to restore my access. He did so.

At that point, Celine started the dreadful and toxic WORM TONGUE thread. It began badly, and then got worse. Richard, then furious himself, lost all control on page 6 and simply started firing his gun. It is not acceptable under any provocation at all for a senior moderator to say to a member under the interested eyes of thousands of members of the public whose names we will never know:

Originally Posted by Richard
Your lucky your on the other side of the Atlantic you f*cking coward.
In person I would rip your head off and sh*t down your neck for that.

Crawl back to your hole now little coward behind the screen.
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post161029

This total loss of control left a number of members quite speechless. Yet that post remained unedited and the thread continued. At that point, I had no clue this thread existed.

Celine posted two toxic e-mails to Dale, who had written this post, doing his job as a moderator, for which he was thanked 35 times by members who were hoping that at least one mod would try to put a stop to the growing insanity:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...948#post160948

Originally Posted by Dale
Stopping in for a minutes - there seems to be a crescendoing wave of drama and tension unfolding.

Might I suggest we turn away from our screens for a moment, think of three things we admire about the individual or individuals our frustration is directed toward, hold that feeling for several minutes, and then come back?

I wish everyone the best, and now, back to lunch for me!
In the midst of all this, GW and Lee-B were not only unsubscribed, but their accounts were deleted totally to the point where they no longer existed to be restored.

What has happening was basically a quiet battle for control of Avalon.

Then one of the moderators told me, alarmed, that Richard had told the other mods on a private chat, to which I was not party, that he intended to leave - and in so doing, was resolved to do as much verbal damage as possible to myself and the forum as a deliberate act of sabotage.

I asked all the mods to forward what he had threatened. No-one did, so I still do not know what he actually wrote. I believe, not to continue to test the loyalty of any moderators, that it is now been deleted. If I am wrong, allow me to be wrong. This has slid enough already at Richard's hands.

That stated destructive intention was the basis of my decision to insist that he did leave. I changed all the forum passwords. Because Richard and Celine are joined at the hip - and that she has been a continuous source of gossip, leaks, subtle smears, and passive-aggressive innuendo (including, in the latest thread, suggesting for the second time that I have lied to the members), she also had to go. It was totally crystal clear.

When I made my announcement here, I said I would cancel their accounts 24 hours alter. Nearly 23 hours have passed. The delay was purposeful - so that they have the conscious choice about what to say and what not to say. Celine so far has not handled that opportunity very well. I have absolutely no idea what Rich may do, but I imagine he is crafting a long post. I may be wrong. We'll see.

The Personal-Message-reading issue has just today come out in the wash, now the spin cycle has started. It was never an item to take issue with before - because I'd always assumed it was not possible.

Luke, Fred and Beth all stated clearly that they never tried to read or access read any private messages. I was not expecting them to have said anything different, and I fully believe them.

The marked silence from Richard has been extremely loud. There is compelling circumstantial evidence that he and Celine have indeed been accessing some members' Private Messages under the guise of 'investigation'.

Under any conceivable set of forum protocols, this is unacceptable.

As best I am aware, Richard has not denied that he did this - and Celine has virtually confirmed it. Meanwhile, other members, who are smart, savvy and aware, had a while back come to the exact same conclusion that Celine had access all the time to their Private Messages. This is totally not okay. We may as well be the East German Stazi.

Most of the moderator team have now left. They are split by issues of personal loyalty - and they are also exhausted. I do not fully know who is there now.

I believe we have myself, Dale, Hiram, Luke, Paul, Scott, Shane and Tania (Illuminate). I may even be wrong about that. It's pretty tough. But in a replay of the same game, there's very little if anything that I would have done differently.

Those who know me well know that I have two aspects to my personality. Some people find that a paradox. But I call it a strength. It's like a standard-looking sports car which hides a bored engine and a double turbocharger.

I am patient, tolerant, enabling, understanding, for the longest time. But when certain lines are crossed I change gear and I do not bend or move at all. That shocks some people when they don't expect it. But I am comfortable with that.

Without that steel (which Kerry also possesses, of course, as do others we know well like Bob Dean, David Icke, David Wilcock and quite a few others), we would all get crushed like bugs in this maelstrom of the alternative media - which is extremely nasty sometimes. One must have a strong backbone, or else one cannot stand upright in the hurricane.

And I will stand upright to anyone toe to toe if I have to. It is when mild-mannered Clark Kent suddenly changes not into Superman, but into Rambo. I exaggerate not. Some people here have witnessed that, and they do not like it. But it sits well with me. It's the only way to survive in certain circumstances. 98% of the time, I am the most loving, gentle, compliant soul you would ever wish to be stuck on a desert island with. There are no double standards here. What you see is how I am. And if you are not certain what you see, there are some 2,300 posts to read which will reveal everything I care about, know about, envision, love, and feel responsible for.

I say here what I reported I had said earlier in this same report. If any of you now do not understand, disagree with my viewpoint, continue to criticize me overtly or covertly, or feel that I somehow am lying or being deceptive, then please leave right now.

Form an orderly line, and I will unsubscribe you one by one with my best wishes for wherever you choose to go next. You know, you don't have to be here.

Northern Boy and Zook (who should have known better) - I hope you are paying attention.

*** I will answer any and all questions. ***

[Ruby L.]

A gentle reminder from those who are interested in absorbing and observing this thread's path with minimum distractions- kindly take all other comments and postings (other than those requested by write4change) to a thread Teakai started, linked below:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?15568-control-freaks-on-Write4change-s-thread

Sincere thanks.

[slipknotted]

another thread i wont bother with ! sounds like this thread should be a PM the fighting does not do any good for anybody, kiss and make and move on to better energy thats waiting.

[modwiz]

Bills Character Analysis by Write4change

I do not know Bill in any way. I have had no interaction with him. I have gone to my books on MyersBriggs. Bill put this out there. And it fits with his profile. So if you want to understand Bill let us see how accurate this is and what he thinks about it.

Bill is an idealist under Jungian concepts. A Champion according David Kerisey. How do Champions view the world:

In the view of the Champions nothing occurs that is without significance, without profound meaning. And they don't want to miss any of it. ENFPs must experience all the events that affect people's lives, and then they are eager to relate the stories they've uncovered, hoping to disclose some truth about people and issues, and to motivate others with their powerful convictions. This strong drive to speak out on social events can make these Champions tireless in conversing with others, like fountains that bubble and splash, spilling over their own words to get it all out. Their enthusiasm is boundless and is often contagious, making them the most vivacious of all the types, and also inspiring others to join their cause.

As a variant of Plato's Idealists and Aristotle's Ethicists, the ENFPs are little different from other NFs in most respects. Like all the Idealists they are abstract in communicating and cooperative in implementing goals. they want to learn about the humanities, are preoccupied with morale, and work well with personnel. In orientation they are altruistic, credulous, mystical, situated on pathways, and with their eye on tomorrow. They base their self image on being seen empathic, benevolent, and authentic. Often inspired, they trust their intuition, yearn for romance, seek identity, prize recognition, and aspire to be a sage. Intellectually, they are prone to practice diplomacy far more than strategy, logistics, and especially tactics. Further, having a probing or exploring nature they ten to prefer the Advocate's informative role over the more schedule-minded Mentor's directive role. And because of their irrepressible expressiveness they are more eager to be a Champion of causes than a Healer of troubled souls. To visualize ENFP intellectual development consider the following their path: advocate, teacher, healer, counselor.

The are rather rare, say two or three percent of the population, but even more than the others they consider intense emotional experiences as being vital to a full life. Champions have a wide range and variety of emotions, and a great passion for novelty, and resist repeating experiences. Also, they can never quite shake the feeling that a part of themselves is split off, uninvolved in their experience. Thus, while they strive for emotional intensity, Champions often see themselves in some danger of losing touch with their real feelings.

These expressive Advocates are fiercely independent, repudiating any kind of subordination, either in themselves or in others in relation to them. Unfortunately, Champions constantly find themselves surrounded by others who look toward them for wisdom, inspiration, courage, and leadership, a dependency which , at times, weighs rather heavily on them. In the same vein, ENFPs strive toward a kind of spontaneous personal authenticity, and this intention always to be themselves is usually communicated nonverbally to others, who find it quite attractive.

In their probing way, Champions exercise a continuous scanning of the social environment, and no suspicious motive is likely to escape their attention. Far more than other NFs, they are the keen and penetrating observers of the people around them, and are capable of intense concentration on another individual. Their attention is never passive or casual, never wandering , but always directed. In fact, seeing life as an exciting drama pregnant with possibilities for both good and evil, Champions tent to be hypersensitive and hyperalert, always ready for emergencies.

Historical View of this Personality Type:

Hippocrates Phlegmatic
Aristotle Air --- cool
Jung Idealist
Watson/Crick Cytosine
Nomi/Besher Blood Type AB
Friedman Chemical Types Type B
Sperry Brain Types Right brain
Abravanel Body Types Gonadal
Mar facial types Round
Mendel Garland
Pavlov Canine Types Steadfast
Cultural Southern

What turns on this personality:

Cooperation Teamwork Peacefulness
Pleasant people Helping others Camaraderie
Volunteerism Loyalty Emotional support
Optimism Trust Relationships
Slow pace Kindness Advising
Feeling needed Smooth sailing Resolving conflicts
Communication Encouragement Friendliness

What turns this personality off:

Shouting Roadblocks to peace
Feeling shunned Lack of teamwork
Conflict Fast pace
Negative attitudes Competition
Isolation Impatience
Heavy Responsibilities Rigid Deadlines
Insensitivity Uncooperativeness
Pressure Rudeness

I have not gotten out my books in a long time. They have a whale of information in them. Now that i have reviewed them, I know why I am attracted to and feel comfortable with Bill and his judgment. And I would bet that Kerry is the exact opposite of all these traits and needs. A relationship of exact opposites is very intense and you learn a lot from them but when they are done; they are over. Bill's personality is tuned to the learning experience, bless and let go.

[Lifesong]

deleted by poster.

wrong post, wrong thread, I think.

I misunderstood. My apologies.

[write4change]

WE ARE ONE, BILL'S PROBLEMS ARE OUR PROBLEMS

In the early 80s, before MyersBriggs became so profitable, there was some other kind of personality test classification that classified people by S and D and two other kind of letters. I can't remember them. My husband a CPA Tax Attorney was an S someone totally focused on attention to detail and I was a D a developer and it was graft plotted. I was a conceptual developer. That is the best label I ever got because it gave me permission to think of things as systems and patterns and to work at developing in progressions.

When you plotted to the grafts of my husband and I against each other we made an exact square. His greatest strengths were my greatest weaknesses and vice versa. We had two ways to function with this: you embrace the square as the strongest possible foundation or you see yourself as polarizing opposites working in different directions. We chose to embrace the square.

I had post 27 on this thread put up because it is about the effectiveness of using two cents as a from of spiritual practice.

Two cents does not let anybody off the hook, even in a poor country. Everybody can give two cents a day. The only issue is the will.

When we all own this site, and I seriously mean these words in all their depth. A lot of problems go away with all their temptations and focus and direction are immediately available.

Since I didn't read the Charles threads on a whole I am only aware of the things that really broke into the community consciousness and the issue of Charles wanting to help pay someone's mortgage was a biggy. It was the first time I realized that Bill owned neither home nor car. You are really talking about paying a price to serve the universe as you understand it. It has even been mentioned in these last pages about how Bill is not growing younger. And that is living with a vulnerability, that I don't think the mods are experiencing. It means the one thing he pays first, is the cost of this site.

In the post of #27 here, I already show you for two cents you could have 15,000 every 8 months. Okay guys I am so tired I am having a brain fart, math is my least memory. I literally can not figure out how much money you would have if 3000 people gave a nickel every day for 8 months but I did just get that 3000 people paying 5.00 a month is 180,000 dollars every eight months. If we had that much money as a group, that kind of cooperation we could pay Bill a living wage, own our servers, pay Bill to go where the group would like to see him, allow him enough free time to pursue his instinctive project interests, not worry about membership drives etc. Maybe enough to pay the mods something. If we did that, then Bill has to be receptive to us as a group with a stated interest and at the same time he is freed from any small group manipulation.

This is way to small a group to attract major advertisers and that whole concept is a drag. There is no incentive to need to grow or need to reduce, we can hang with just being the three thousand which gives you a lot of power to DEVELOP. If we pay the mods something, they also have a different kind of motivation and sense of value to the community.

We all know all this. The attraction is there. But so is the repulsion. It is the whole we are so spiritual, we are going to vibrate to change. You vibrate to change by changing the molecules but the first step to that is vibrating with the molecules you got. This is the problem with the Zeitgeist movement there is no way to will your way there. It has to be incremental and they have no incremental plan. Somehow money is not spiritual. We don't want to really look at the nitty gritty. If we build it they will come, is a Hollywood myth from the PTB. You need a feasibility study. The people who got loans and took down the savings and loans with no business plans and no feasibility studies were all crooks and cronies of crooks and all the rest of us payed for it.

I live on 200 a month after I pay my bills--that is for food, gas, medicine, entertainment etc. I was raised poor white trailer trash so I know how to do a lot with money and the more money I got the more I learned how to do. The people who took everything from me, think I am a poor failed old woman and I illustrate how stupid alternative anything it is. I don't see myself that way. I am free of all of them and ever having to deal with any of them. I have books, music, and the internet and the world is always out there on all planes. I have my mind which apparently the universe is never going to let them take. The life of the mind is a high vibrational level. They gave me the time to develop it. I have no regrets now about how I got here. On two hundred dollars a month, my giving 5.00 a month to paypal is worth it to me for having the pleasure of working on this site. Spirituality is work in many different ways. The days of under the Bodhi tree are past. We are in another cocreation. We need to stoop thinking of our spirituality in terms of past experience.

On this thread right here, here right now you can click thanks as of way of saying to the universe you are willing to subscribe to five dollars a month to develop Avalon and to soar from this experience so that it never happens again. No one is expecting we can get there. I think all this happened to make sure we never did.

We talk about forgiveness but I never see much action about. Lots of forgiveness for self respect requires making amends. Right here, right now I forgive everyone for everything known and unknown but after midnight tonight when I am done with this--I give people three days to read it. After three days, any one who steps on me in any way or my friends or people I don't know who are just guests here, I will personally warn first nicely and progressively stronger. After the third time, it will all be karma and you will have chosen to reap it.

That is called conscious behavior. Bill has a great take on consciousness. Muzz put up a great video on it. In the video it says, intelligence is energy and all behavior is its expression and information is the matrix. Thus, you are always choosing the pill of your behavior---there is no the devil made me do it.

You can choose to give two cents, a nickel, or five dollars or nothing. But don't kid yourself on the choices you are making.

[modwiz]

I HAVE NO MEDICINE FOR YOU by Write4change

This post is because of reading about things on the Charles material which I am never sure how I feel about it. But on this site we are still stewing with what we are forming. And based on living forward but understanding backward. I remember this very serious game played back in the mid 70s at Stanford home of both Hoover Institute, the Rand Institute, and SRI some of the first think tanks in the country.

I HAVE NO MEDICINE FOR YOU is played this way. A circle of about 30 people are gathered. Each is given five uninterrupted minutes to tell their life story. Then the leader comes out and says I have bad news for you a plague bomb has just been dropped on the city. We only have enough medicine for 1 out of ten. You have to prepare to choose three people from here in the next 3 hours. Please begin by allowing each person two minutes to say what he has to give in what will be a new world as he knows it.

At the end of this time, he passes our a little paper bag of sugar. He tells you it takes 10 doses to survive the plague. Each person must now walk around the circle and hold out their hand in front of each person. You either give him your bag of sugar or you look him in the face and say I have no medicine for you.

This is repeated until 3 people have ten bags. This can be in many ways a very traumatic game. If you remember 911 Dr. Phil had just come on the air with his new show. He started with this but after 911 did not show it for almost a year.

When I did this Dr. Victor Lovell at Prometheus lead. Looking back on this I am sure the think tanks thought this up to see how the brightest and best handled it from their point of view. I say this with tongue in cheek. One of the things I know for sure is only mature people should play this game. But the reality might be that we all may be playing it in the near future. So I put it out there for food for thought.

[Ahkenaten]

To Continue,


Beowulf slays the Dragon Daghratn
"BEOWULF AND ARTHUR AS ENGLISH IDEALS"
by
SARAH F. McNARY
This essay first appeared in Poet-Lore: A Quarterly of World Literature 6.2 (1894), 528-36.



Ahkenten, I'm confused...is this something write4change has asked you to post as part of her narrative?

OH! I was just picking up where Modwiz and Carmody left off

[modwiz]

To Continue,


Beowulf slays the Dragon Daghratn
"BEOWULF AND ARTHUR AS ENGLISH IDEALS"
by
SARAH F. McNARY
This essay first appeared in Poet-Lore: A Quarterly of World Literature 6.2 (1894), 528-36.



Ahkenten, I'm confused...is this something write4change has asked you to post as part of her narrative?

OH! I was just picking up where Modwiz and Carmody left off

I was putting things up for her.

That is, she requested that it be put there, in that order.

[Lifesong]

To Continue,


Beowulf slays the Dragon Daghratn
"BEOWULF AND ARTHUR AS ENGLISH IDEALS"
by
SARAH F. McNARY
This essay first appeared in Poet-Lore: A Quarterly of World Literature 6.2 (1894), 528-36.



Ahkenten, I'm confused...is this something write4change has asked you to post as part of her narrative?

OH! I was just picking up where Modwiz and Carmody left off

I was putting things up for her.

I was just cheering them on. :)

EDIT TO ADD:
I may be confused about what's going on here.

[Maria Stade]

Bills problems are our problems we are all one



Bills sense of adventure by Sepia
Well.... Just before you cry too many tears:

Bill was a mountaineer.

This picture is from his album and shows him in the Himalayas. He loves unusual situations and adventures...

To sleep in the car with a sleeping bag instead of taking a room in a Hotel was his own choice and certainly no drama.

5444



Pride by Maria Stade

I must agree with this gentle soul.

By not being honest about the situation, needed help did not come.

I know all about pride and how it can make our life more difficult that is has to be.

Friends help friends, sharing and giving.

I hope that you will not continue this path and learn from this lesson of life.

Are you still living in a car Bill ?

This forum is full of sensitive and gentle souls there are many ways to help !

Healing has begun !

Love to all.

Maria


Character Assassination

"In practice, character assassination may involve doublespeak, spreading of rumors, innuendo or deliberate misinformation on topics relating to the subject's morals, integrity, and reputation. It may involve spinning information that is technically true, but that is presented in a misleading manner or is presented without the necessary context. For example, it might be said that a person refused to pay any income tax during a specific year, without saying that no tax was actually owed due to the person having no income that year, or if a person was sacked from a firm, even though they may have been made redundant rather than actually fired.Cults use character assassination as one of their tactics to obtain mind control."....wikipedia


Needing to activate paypal by Perfectresonance

Actually, it is probably time for another round of Paypal donations for Bill.

Bill is not going to ask unless he's on his last rice cracker, so here it goes:

CONSIDER A DONATION NOW[/QUOTE]

I m dont like this, my text put in like that !




No I cannot imagine someone , anyone, doing what Bill does and having to sleep in their car.

I'm sure that we would have no problems creating a host system for Bill.




Well.... Just before you cry to many tears:

Bill was a mountaineer.

This picture is from his album and shows him in the Himalayas. He loves unusual situations and adventures...

To sleep in the car with a sleeping bag instead of taking a room in a Hotel was his own choice and certainly no drama.

5444

Yes he is like many others a survivor spirit !

Many have this skill but that dose not mean we should live like that, just because we can.

If this will be a part of the future then we must !

Namaste

and



blake said :


Mr. Ryan, I can’t imagine you having to sleep in your car. With all your admirers and contacts across the world, I would imagine all you would have to post is that you will be in a certain area and would appreciate some hospitality. Let me extend my open invitation to you, should you, and those you are traveling with, ever be in my neck of the woods, just pm me, and I can offer you a private, comfortable room, as you go about your work, or rest; and I can offer you as much home cooking as you desire. The thoughts that you would ever have to spend the night in a car, does not speak well for how our community works.


I must agree with this gentle soul.

By not being honest about the situation, needed help did not come.

I know all about pride and how it can make our life more difficult that is has to be.

Friends help friends, sharing and giving.

I hope that you will not continue this path and learn from this lesson of life.

Are you still living in a car Bill ?

This forum is full of sensitive and gentle souls there are many ways to help !

Healing has begun !

Love to all.

Maria

I have never been in any sect and will never be in one !

I have many friends but no credit card.

Just to clear things up ! It can be confusing as it is.

Namaste

[write4change]

EVOLUTIONARY CONFLICT--- ZEUS VERSUS HERA

Zeus as father god is so powerful by his very persona that all the other gods rarely consider that he might make any mistakes even though he only lives on Olympus and is not the creator of the universe. Since everybody says he is a great god, Zeus thinks pretty much every thing he does is right on the money. Hera being the mother of his children is always vying among them for time and attention from Zeus. As the children get more numerous and bigger, she gets ever more in disagreement with the priorities of making the world work with Zeus who feels his work is pretty much done and he can just BE. Hera is experiencing little children little problems--bigger children bigger problems.

They are really having disagreements about Cupid who while almost too adorable for words is constantly wounding the other kids by shooting off her bows and arrows without thinking. Then when they all gang up on her she runs off to daddies lap saying it was all just an accident. Then Zeus and Hera can cause all kinds of storms disagreeing about discipline versus coaching versus responsibility versus coddling etc.

So Zeus calls on the power of the universe to send him some energy to lay this all to rest. Loh, and behold, out of his forhead springs the fully grown Athena. Athena is sent to baby sit the kids while mommy and daddy work with little Cupid. Cupid with a twinkle in her eye proceeds not only to shoot her brothers and sisters but her mom and dad as well.

When everyone gangs up on Cupid she runs to daddy Zeus and says but I didn't mean it. It was all an accident. You know you made me only love. To which Athena says to Mom and Dad: What the Hell are you thinking?

[modwiz]

A link to the thread that teakai started to let this thread unfold.

We did something good here. Our graciousness blessed us all. Blessed Avalon.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?15568-control-freaks-on-Write4change-s-thread...&p=164697&viewfull=1#post164697

[write4change]

THE BIZARRE STORY

I think the bizarre story is out there because the fears that it raises and the underlying issues keep getting raised not directly but sideways and there has been specific reference from people about it. I was going to site posts on this and decided not to -- as I have drilled down on all this--I have moved from blaming to seeking an end to all this and really seeing if we can evolve.

I know it is absolutely obvious to everybody that we all have trust issues with everything all the time. Those of us who did not grow up this way; it feels really sticky and icky. Those who were born into this world of total deceit having to figure it out for yourself how to out wit, out last, and out play---. It feels perfectly normal, and thus, the elephant in the room grows and grows until the house falls down before any one recognizes the elephant has been sitting there all along and now he stood up and took a bow.

The bizarre story is all about celebrity. Who has it. Who is seeking it. What are people willing to do for it. How does it rub off etc. It is about fake resumes, fake performances and fake promises. The whispers all say they have proof. But they don't. Because they promised it, didn't deliver it, and if they had it. They would put it out there. So it is a whisper campaign. It is Rovian in the political arena. What Rove is known for is putting something that is a strength and making it dirty. It is saying McCain has a black child and never allowing the fact of adoption to come into play as known facts.

Charles remains the X factor as greybeard pointed out Bill invited him. Thus, there is speculation of connections, reasonings, games, etc. all the things that have been hashed in all the threads all the times. Thus, I started with suggesting solving that problem to some degree by organizing and collating the Charles material which after doing this I now realize is a lot of work. And way beyond anything I am capable and I think should be done as a team organized here as a form of co creating differently.

Part of why I did the thread this way, is because The Swede on post number 800, a strong numerical number, talked about how it was almost impossible to get any clarity on anything after three pages. I hope I got that right. I took notes on cards but on some I only used key words. Feedback I get from what would be considered outsiders or lurkers is that it is not possible to get a real picture of what is happening--it all looks like chaos.

To get back to the issue of celebrity. It is hard for me to grasp, in my world, that being on a reality TV show in any way makes you either a celebrity or a star. A site of three thousand people on the internet is nothing. The fear that all this is being done or created because someone is seeking stardom or has illusions of it---is loosing touch with reality. Even if a movie was made of some one's life here, name the top ten best pictures for the last ten years. We all think we are smart informed and up to date---most can't do it. Because in reality it is no big deal--it does not change the world by itself. It is not consciousness; it is only part of the process for consciousness.

This implied story that Bill is doing all this for celebrity or that Charles has convinced him he is King Arthur and he is a changed man etc etc etc is all innuendo. I don't see it. I posted this as a path thru the forest. I am showing you the consistencies of what are and are not problems. You as a group get to validate what you want.

I do not believe that Bill sells out his integrity. To convince me other wise show me the proof. This is simply trying to keep the dark forces in play by never giving it a rest. Do I think mistakes were made-- yes. Today I made a ton of mistakes doing this because I had never done it before. I got post and places and times confused. Things got posted I never intended. But you know what I looked at some of them as gifts from the universe. Some made me laugh. I loved Giovanni's giraffes. There were times I could feel a real flow and coming to understanding what co creating threads could be. That just because they aren't done doesn't mean they can't be or shouldn't be. This could be our gift to the universe--- Avalon's concept of running parallel threads--one of text and one of discussion for what are agreed upon important projects.

We have seen one possibility. We can restructure and recreate threads to bring clarity and cohesion without destroying the past but creating a new future. We are the change we have been waiting for. How does that happen if you don't allow change.

Change is stopping this story from being whispered by stepping up to the plate and saying that was then and this is now and we are done with that. This is what we want to do now. And if you know for a fact one little iota of this story is true, has Bill not earned the right to make a mistake and let it go? Do you really want to multiply it and compound it.

I want to thank all the people who posted that I quoted all your thinking interwove with mine to produce this. I want to thank Modwiz for being with me all day after last night threatening to shoot him. This would have never gotten done without him. I think we both learned a lot and despite that, trust me we will never agree on many things. I would like to thank the Golden Giraffes that allowed me to survive and I hope you all go out and make more of you. I would like to thank all of you that bothered to read all this. I will thank you even more over the next three days if you think about and act on it.

I want to keep this thread clean so it can be drug up and pointed to as the need arises. I would like to have a full blown flame out discussion on the parallel thread and see if there is any consensus about anything. Those of you that are good about creating I would love to see a poll about what continents we represent so we have some idea of how we are spread out culture wise.

This is the best I can do right now. I have four more threads I want to produce in the normal ways after a rest and with time. This all started for me because I want to produce a thread on sacred spiritual sexuality and I asked for it to be a locked thread and I was told the mods voted it down because it was not appropriate for this forum. They were right and I was wrong because for the time being there is not the level of maturity here to handle it. But if I stay, it is my intention that with time we will get there together.

Namaste, Jai

[mondaze]

it is a misconception that beowulf is an english founding myth, Beowulf is a Geet in defence of a Danish king. Although the poem has nordic antecedents it is written, in my opinion, as a call to arms in defence of Knut, a Danish king.

[modwiz]

it is a misconception that beowulf is an english founding myth, Beowulf is a Geet in defence of a Danish king. Although the poem has nordic antecedents it is written, in my opinion, as a call to arms in defence of Knut, a Danish king.

The placement of that post in this thread was a misconception too. lol

Your point is well made about him being a Geet.

[Gone002]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJXR280wbEg



Hah ha lol

Sorry i had to put that link in somewere lol :p

[Ahkenaten]

I think Greybeard's call for meds should be upgraded to a large dose of LSD for all concerned. That should straighten things out!

[jorr lundstrom]

I think Greybeard's call for meds should be upgraded to a large dose of LSD for all concerned. That should straighten things out!

Im not so sure about that. Seems to be too strong acid for some already.

Not everyone can handle it. Get it? :crutch:

[jjl]

if it were up to me I would pass a j insteade *jj giggles*
from now on you can call me jl, since I gave up a j to party with!

[write4change]

I have been requested by the mods to close this thread asap. They have asked me and they have notified me of their desire and their reasoning. I am going now to talk about that.

I do not want this thread to die.

It is now a free for all. Bring it on. Nothing about this is negative, vindictive, blaming, revenge, etc etc etc it is pursuit of knowledge, learning, and development the three key words of Avalon's mission.

[write4change]

The reason for this request is that the mods have decided this is a blog and is not suited to the forum and therefore, should be closed asap.

I do not agree with any of that and here is why:

1. I incorporated a lot of other people's posts that I wanted to respond to and could not. That is because I was rehabbed from extensive brain damage by the state of california on windows 3.0 so I was retarded that way from the beginning. I cannot even cut and paste it is a big handicap.

2. Then I did not ask for special dispensation of anything, I asked people to try something different.

3. At no time was anyone criticized or chided by me or modwiz who helped me for doing anything they wanted. There is not one clean page if you want to call it that on here.

4. There is a lot of information that is rather compact here if one wants to read it.

5. The only reason for closing a thread is so that it can not be revived. At least that is my understanding. If I had had any sense of what this was really about I would have asked for people to climb on then. I actually had in mind and quoted The Swede who said clarity disappears after 3 pages.

6. The only reason for closing this thread is not that it violates one rule in any way but that it was a success and its knowledge remains available. I was stupid enough to go with my understanding of other sites that a thread that keeps the rules is allowed to die a natural death of disinterest.

[Teakai]

Seriously? That's...bizarre.

A little taste of things to come no doubt. Leaves a bitter taste in the mouth.

It's ironic, though that such unreasoned dictate should come from such a site.
I wonder, will those who make this request be the first to complain when they are not the one's weilding the power?


"Power endowed upon those who do not have the combined capacity of head and heart to handle it is a dangerous and destructive thing."

[write4change]

Now I have asked a lot of questions of the mods, I will use a broad brush here let them be generic because they have been coming and going, and all I get back are phrases. As we all know I don't do phrases well. LOL

Most of the time I get no answers to the questions I ask. When I consider the number of them in ratio to the site and my other site experience it seems unusual.

I also got before the blowup some categorical nos. Categorical nos also don't set very well with me. There is nothing more powers that be than because I said so. This old hippy heard so much of that growing up that I have never uttered it.

So when all this happens I try to begin again and thinking we have all learned from this experience. I start writing Luke because at 30 he seems both reasonably grounded and centered, culturally expansive and substantially educated which to me means we share a lot of learning experiences. I start trying to see if I can point out some of the problems as I see and develop the trust for them to be solved differently behind the scenes.

Luke would write and this would be it: What are you trying to accomplish? And I would write back in detail. In so much detail that I learned that 5000 strokes is all you get. So I already gave a few of my friends my email so I could write my long stuff and they could give me guidance. I have never in my life not taken guidance. Teaching is always a two way process when done correctly; the minute I stop learning from my student I am no longer teaching. But every time I answered Luke he had nothing to say about my answer. And he has nothing to say about my writing. So what ever I am perceived to be doing wrong--has never been explained.

When I was told the Bizarre story I was as mad as a wet hen. I felt intellectually taken down just as I had been fiancially taken down in my story about how I lost 100,000. The reason I don't do Charles is he sets off all those bells and whistles. I am not willing to go there. I am willing to watch and be proven wrong.

I wrote Luke and I said there is a bizarre story and if it is true I don't think Bill will survive and it is too long for me to do PM send me an email address which he did. I sent a test because I am never sure if I get things right or not. No reply. So that is a kind of an answer and a choice. I am willing to believe everybody knows more than I know.

So the next morning I get up and while everything is still churning the promised reveal did not take place. So I think that's done. But the more I think about and read other's post, I think it is out there and may be just as dangerous as whispers than not. In politics, we have learned that not address a whisper campaign front and center is deadly. So I set out to defang this whisper campaign for the what I see as the good of Avalon.

When I first wrote Luke and I was hot, I said I am going to take them down. To which he replied why do you want to take them down? And I wrote about being influenced by Graham Hancock's work that if there is good, there is evil on all dimensions and we are called to war with that within ourselves and all dimensions. Never got a replay back. When I finished yesterday, I asked what he thought. Never got a replay back. Writing from the heart went up.

[karelia]

Seriously? That's...bizarre.

A little taste of things to come no doubt. Leaves a bitter taste in the mouth.

It's ironic, though that such unreasoned dictate should come from such a site.
I wonder, will those who make this request be the first to complain when they are not the one's weilding the power?


"Power endowed upon those who do not have the combined capacity of head and heart to handle it is a dangerous and destructive thing."

It is a bit sad, but I think I understand the decision. Yes, it's old paradigm, but let's not forget we all still have at least one foot firmly planted in it. I don't think the mods' request/decision has anything to do with wielding power, or at least I hope not. It could be as simple as the likelihood that if one member starts a new mannerism, others will follow, and suddenly the forum is full of "blog" posts because if one is allowed, then all others should be, too. Some here haven't reached the stage where they can sit back and say, 'yes, I can see why write4change used this particular format. But I'm not behind with my technological knowledge where this forum is concerned, so I'll follow the general rules,' kind of thing...

I co-mod a fiction archive, and we have some ground rules. If they're broken with the mod's consent, then there has to be a solid reason because otherwise we can't justify it to our readers, and it would look like elitism.

I would completely understand if the mods make an exception with this thread because w4c has solid reasons (an ancient version of Windoze). But I also understand if they don't make that exception because I bet you anything that there would be an onslaught of other "blog" posts and a lack of comprehension leading to bruised ego etc etc etc.

[write4change]

Hey guys, I am answering the pms and writing and I need you all to argue and flame here now so I can take some time to answer publicly Luke's what are you trying to accomplish.

I need some time to read a couple of things. the body of knowledge is in the first three pages and people can read that clearly now we have to have the argument that has been had many of time on many a site.

Marco makes millions of dollars on dailykos we all know it. But he makes it off us--we who read, we who post, and we who gave money in the first place to support him. Dailykos is valued at 5 million dollars last I heard and Marcos does not have to practice as a lawyer. I have watched Marcos go thru a lot of changes as have we all. If everybody stopped coming to dailykos would Marcos be Marcos, I happen to think not.

We will get to see this played out of the Huffington post. She made a fortune on liberals needing a place to speak and got Barbara Steisand etc. from the get go. Will those people still post now that it is sold out to the right wing media. The answer is no. Can it keep its cachet without that? Time will tell?

Is Bill a leader without a following? That is what this is all about. I still have lots to say on this but so should other people. I need dinner because I fell asleep listening to a tap on here and woke up to the close request.

[write4change]

Karelia,

To address your point, and it is a point well taken, no dispensation was given nor was it asked, the key thing here was pointed out that it is like herding cats. The good thing about that is you can't do that unless you have something really good the cats want. I know that for sure, i once had six house cats and 12 barn cats. LOL No one can do this again unless they have the power and the passion of writing.

I did not know until yesterday that I had that---that is one of the things being feared.

[pilotsimone]

So much insightful-ness, so many people interested...and we have to fight to keep this thread open? This feels very off to me. Tell us how many 'ayes' she needs to keep it open. Is there a number?

[Erin]

Hi everyone!

In the interest of transparency, I'm going to post what I said in the PM to write4change about the reasons why we were talking about closing the thread.


Hi Jai!

Thanks for your message.

I talked with the mods about your thread, and basically the consensus was that blog type posts wherein there is only one poster in a thread aren't really the function of the forum. We're talking about adding a blog section where members can post stuff like that, because obviously we want everyone to have their voice heard. But for the time being, we can't have a lot of solo-poster threads clogging up the forum, because we want to facilitate group discussion.

I assure you that you're not hated by any of the mods! You make great contributions - this is just an organizational matter, ultimately.

If you could let us know when you're finished with the entries on your thread (ASAP please!), that'd be great - we're going to close it as soon as you're done.

Thanks!
-Erin

Since write4change opened up the thread for anyone to contribute, we're keeping it open.

Thanks for your understanding!

[Teakai]

When I was told the Bizarre story I was as mad as a wet hen. I felt intellectually taken down just as I had been fiancially taken down in my story about how I lost 100,000. The reason I don't do Charles is he sets off all those bells and whistles. I am not willing to go there. I am willing to watch and be proven wrong.

I wrote Luke and I said there is a bizarre story and if it is true I don't think Bill will survive and it is too long for me to do PM send me an email address which he did. I sent a test because I am never sure if I get things right or not. No reply. So that is a kind of an answer and a choice. I am willing to believe everybody knows more than I know.So the next morning I get up and while everything is still churning the promised reveal did not take place. So I think that's done. But the more I think about and read other's post, I think it is out there and may be just as dangerous as whispers than not. In politics, we have learned that not address a whisper campaign front and center is deadly. So I set out to defang this whisper campaign for the what I see as the good of Avalon.


Well - you sure as heck know more that I do.

So - there is a bizarre story that is going to be revealed? Is that why the mods want the thread down?
But, that doesn't make sense, because you'd finished writing your piece on the thread - hadn't you?

I want to know the bizarre story - but it would have to be pretty out there to surprise me.
This subterfuge is just doin' me 'ead in.

[write4change]

Thank you for that Erin. It is much appreciated. I truly believe transparency is the answer to everything.

[jorr lundstrom]

Have the water gone yet. Do you think the baby will be born soon?

The pain from the birth labour is echoing.:nod:

[Teakai]

I wrote Luke and I said there is a bizarre story and if it is true I don't think Bill will survive



Do tell! (And I will in return tell you right here whether it is true or not - whatever you're referring to.)

This forum does not need any more games, innuendo, oblique comments, mysteries, or teases. Please don't do that any more. It doesn't help.

I get 200-300 e-mails a day. To find yours, I'd need to know the address you sent it to and the address you sent it from. Please PM me with those details. Thanks.

I didn't write this. The above comment I mean.

********


Edit by Bill - I edited your post in error (meaning to post a reply). I fully restored it the moment I realized. My apologies. My post is below.

[doodah]

I'm not sure I've followed this correctly either... but check me on this: The bizarre story is the rumor that Bill Ryan is selling out for celebrity? By selling out I mean he's milking the Charles material, drawing people in to Avalon for his own ego-inflation? The bizarre story is that he actually believes he's King Arthur?

Well, if that were true, that would truly be bizarre but he says he doesn't think Charles thinking he (Bill) is the reincarnation of King Arthur means anything.

It actually hasn't been that easy to find the bizarre story here. We heard about parts of write4change's life, about the lemur (beautiful and sad story!), about the parrots, etc. We had some reposts about Charles; some reposts of Bill's statements of what happened with Celine and Richard; a character analysis of Bill; a long section on the legend of King Arthur and Beowulf; and some math demonstrating how we could fairly easily raise lots of money for Avalon and Bill.

It hasn't exactly been a straight line from (page 1) "6. I am not going to reveal the story because I don't know the truth of the story. But I am going to reveal the elements of truth of the story and/or the fears the story really addresses. It is the issues that are seeking to surface." to post #64 asking when the bizarre story will be told.

This whole thing is pretty bizarre! But I know write4change's intentions here are only for the best for Bill and for Avalon.

Since you have Modwiz's assistance, write4change, if this thread is to be closed can't he copy all of it for you and you can make it into a Group? That's allowed, and was suggested early on in this thread.

[Bill Ryan]

there is a bizarre story and if it is true I don't think Bill will survive

Do tell!

And I will in return tell you right here whether it is true or not - whatever you're referring to.

Please also state clearly who told you the 'story'.

The forum members do not need any more games, innuendo, oblique comments, mysteries, or teases.

Please don't do that any more. It doesn't help.

I get 200-300 e-mails a day. To find yours, I'd need to know the address you sent it to and the address you sent it from. Please PM me with those details. Thanks.

[Jonathon]

Just to throw my 5 cents worth in (and I have probably already said this somewhere else) there are many paths to truth. The form it takes isn't what is important in my opinion. It's where it leads that counts. Don't get me wrong... if write4change was looking for her own full dedicated sub-forum, that's another thing entirely. My impression here is that she is trying to deliver a measured dose of information over a slightly longer span of time in order for the reader to follow her particular line of experience and conclusions. In my opinion, it's compelling and fresh - certainly beats a 200 word 'position' thread and without question helps to convey a thorough and more universal understanding by pulling in all points of available context. In this way, it would be difficult NOT to understand where she is coming from and at the same time, give the reader an extensive background for analysis - in which case, each shares in the learning to the highest degree possible. I really don't see grounds for judgment to the contrary. Let it flow. The result will speak for itself, which is to say, reward and punishment are inherent.

[doodah]

Have the water gone yet. Do you think the baby will be born soon?

The pain from the birth labour is echoing.:nod:

Dear Mods,

You really do need to put a SMILY button next to the THANKS button for when posts make us smile.

[Jonathon]

Have the water gone yet. Do you think the baby will be born soon?

The pain from the birth labour is echoing.:nod:

Dear Mods,

You really do need to put a SMILY button next to the THANKS button for when posts make us smile.

Love that idea! :cool:

[Dennis Jonathan]

Perfectly put.

Deep breath in.

Deep breath out.

Hands off the keyboard.

Let this thread flow at a slow and steady pace.

It is a matter of self restraint. Can we rise above our natural tendency? Lets not make a shopping mall out of this meadow, please.

The worst thing that could happen here would be to see this thread at 30 pages tomorrow.

This is a refreshing experience, lets not soil it.



Just to throw my 5 cents worth in (and I have probably already said this somewhere else) there are many paths to truth. The form it takes isn't what is important in my opinion. It's where it leads that counts. Don't get me wrong... if write4change was looking for her own full dedicated sub-forum, that's another thing entirely. My impression here is that she is trying to deliver a measured dose of information over a slightly longer span of time in order for the reader to follow her particular line of experience and conclusions. In my opinion, it's compelling and fresh - certainly beats a 200 word 'position' thread and without question helps to convey a thorough and more universal understanding by pulling in all points of available context. In this way, it would be difficult NOT to understand where she is coming from and at the same time, give the reader an extensive background for analysis - in which case, each shares in the learning to the highest degree possible. I really don't see grounds for judgment to the contrary. Let it flow. The result will speak for itself, which is to say, reward and punishment are inherent.

[Teakai]

It is a bit sad, but I think I understand the decision. Yes, it's old paradigm, but let's not forget we all still have at least one foot firmly planted in it. I don't think the mods' request/decision has anything to do with wielding power, or at least I hope not. It could be as simple as the likelihood that if one member starts a new mannerism, others will follow, and suddenly the forum is full of "blog" posts because if one is allowed, then all others should be, too. Some here haven't reached the stage where they can sit back and say, 'yes, I can see why write4change used this particular format. But I'm not behind with my technological knowledge where this forum is concerned, so I'll follow the general rules,' kind of thing...

I co-mod a fiction archive, and we have some ground rules. If they're broken with the mod's consent, then there has to be a solid reason because otherwise we can't justify it to our readers, and it would look like elitism.

I would completely understand if the mods make an exception with this thread because w4c has solid reasons (an ancient version of Windoze). But I also understand if they don't make that exception because I bet you anything that there would be an onslaught of other "blog" posts and a lack of comprehension leading to bruised ego etc etc etc.

I could understand the reasoning if it did lead to that, Karelia. And what's a bruised ego?

However, no rules were broken - everyone was playing nicely - no harm was done.

I fail to see any logical reasoning to wanting the thread closed. To me it was interference and censorship without justification.
I'm all for being open minded and understanding - only imo, the weak reasons given for closing the thread don't warrant it.

[write4change]

Okay I took some deep breaths because I got really confused too. Especially the way some things looked originally I mean physically on this site some configurations have changed.

Dear Mr. Ryan, I wrote you by clicking on Bill Ryan on your profile. I honestly do not know how to do any more than that or how it works. I think you should check with Luke with what I started and how I started to tell him. I do understand that you have a huge back up, that is why I thought I could do this thru Luke. I sometimes think most of this came down knowing the timing of your being in the air literally etc.

Doodah, mistakes were made on some things getting posted. I had never done this before and it was much more difficult than I expected and my intention is to never do it again. I wanted to do a linear progression what I found was that some could follow my thinking and some could not.

I am never going to post something destructive unless I know it to be the truth.

[Teakai]

Edit by Bill - I edited your post in error (meaning to post a reply). I fully restored it the moment I realized. My apologies. My post is below.

Woah - that must be what it feels like to have MPD.

How did you find your experience in drag?

:lol:

(No offence intended toward sufferers of MPD or people who like to dress in drag.)

[Tuza]

there is a bizarre story and if it is true I don't think Bill will survive

Do tell!

And I will in return tell you right here whether it is true or not - whatever you're referring to.

Please also state clearly who told you the 'story'.

The forum members do not need any more games, innuendo, oblique comments, mysteries, or teases.

Please don't do that any more. It doesn't help.

I get 200-300 e-mails a day. To find yours, I'd need to know the address you sent it to and the address you sent it from. Please PM me with those details. Thanks.

First its Charles teasing with his information, then other people post something oblique, you try to get your head around it, wanting to know what is going on. Look I dont want to offend, but I am getting upset with more information hovering about said stories that never see the light of day in the end. If you cannot tell the story then please dont post innuendos if in the end we wont ever know. Thank you.

[giovonni]

Just to throw my 5 cents worth in (and I have probably already said this somewhere else) there are many paths to truth. The form it takes isn't what is important in my opinion. It's where it leads that counts. Don't get me wrong... if write4change was looking for her own full dedicated sub-forum, that's another thing entirely. My impression here is that she is trying to deliver a measured dose of information over a slightly longer span of time in order for the reader to follow her particular line of experience and conclusions. In my opinion, it's compelling and fresh - certainly beats a 200 word 'position' thread and without question helps to convey a thorough and more universal understanding by pulling in all points of available context. In this way, it would be difficult NOT to understand where she is coming from and at the same time, give the reader an extensive background for analysis - in which case, each shares in the learning to the highest degree possible. I really don't see grounds for judgment to the contrary. Let it flow. The result will speak for itself, which is to say, reward and punishment are inherent.

i agree with this. i don't sense wright4right, intends any maliciousness or harm to Bill or the Avalon forum. i don't believe any true Avalonian member would tolerate that now- especially myself. Lets just give her a chance to speak in her unique way, and see where it leads us ? It just might be what's needed now to bring a balance back to this shaken and weary membership.

[karelia]

I would completely understand if the mods make an exception with this thread because w4c has solid reasons (an ancient version of Windoze). But I also understand if they don't make that exception because I bet you anything that there would be an onslaught of other "blog" posts and a lack of comprehension leading to bruised ego etc etc etc.

I could understand the reasoning if it did lead to that, Karelia. And what's a bruised ego?

However, no rules were broken - everyone was playing nicely - no harm was done.

I fail to see any logical reasoning to wanting the thread closed. To me it was interference and censorship without justification.
I'm all for being open minded and understanding - only imo, the weak reasons given for closing the thread don't warrant it.

'Bruised ego' was a poor wording on my part, and I haven't found another one that would depict what I mean more clearly. What I refer to as bruised ego is, to stay with the same example, if member A starts a thread along the same manner as write4change and is then told to stop, member A may be put out because s/he sees that as unfair, since write4change was allowed to do it. "If she is allowed, I have to be allowed, too," would be the likely reaction, likely followed by, "and if you don't allow me, then you obviously favour her over me." Member A sees the "unfairness" of it because her/his ego rears its head. And in that sense, I understood the mods who wanted to close the thread. Then, write4change invited others to post on it, and as Erin pointed out, the mods are fine with keeping the thread open. I'm glad they did, and I would have been glad to see this thread kept open under any circumstances, but my point was that I can understand the mods' point of view. Me seeing it from a mod's POV doesn't mean I agree with them, but I can certainly see where they are coming from.

[Bill Ryan]

I am never going to post something destructive unless I know it to be the truth.

If you had integrity, you would have checked with me before you started this thread, which is starting to sound like an exposé in the National Enquirer (except that it'll be published next week, and you'll all have to wait). :)

I've received no e-mail or PM from you.

My e-mail address is bill@projectavalon.net. I'm not exactly hard to find. The address is all over the website.

Or just write it all out here. Then I can either explain how it is someone's genuine misunderstanding, or a deliberate smear.

Please also state clearly where you got this information from. Otherwise it's low-toned, harmful, gossip and rumor. You do understand this, yes?

Enough already.

[Mike]

hi Bill,

if i remember correctly, write4change was kicked in the head by a horse and suffered some form of brain damage. i believe at times she can have some difficulty writing and sending messages(correct me if i'm wrong jai!)

she often composes longer messages, and i'm guessing she's working on it right now. i don't think there's any attempt at game playing here.

[Bill Ryan]

i don't think there's any attempt at game playing here.

It might not be intentional. But the effect is that the title of the thread might more appropriately be

Telling it like I think it might be and I've not yet checked it out with Bill but I'm going to start a rumor anyway.

:)

[Mike]

i don't think there's any attempt at game playing here.

It might not be intentional. But the effect is that the title of the thread might more appropriately be

Telling it like I think it might be and I've not yet checked it out with Bill but I'm going to start a rumor anyway.

:)

quite possibly the longest thread title in Avalon history lol! ;)

[Ruby L.]

Bill, would it help if w4c changes the thread title to: Telling It As How One Person Sees It, then? :)

I, too, don't feel there are any malicious motivations behind this thread. In fact, it's been a space of refreshing calm that allows for quiet contemplation: to be able to voluntarily sit back and really hear one voice speak without having to wade through a million interjections and a multitude of two cent pieces being clunked around. Quite a novel exercise after the torrents of words and energies that've been gushing through the forum lately.

There's an organic flow here. It's also one that exists by the co-creation between the writer and the readers. Nothing bully-ish or self powered in my opinion, and everyone certainly has the choice to read it or not, and take from it what they want.

Most of the readers following this are fully aware that it's the thoughts and perspectives of one person. They're not bound to have to agree with it-- it simply offers another kind of perspective and way: an organic flow, meant neither to go with nor against, but simply to take a middle point to observe and make one's own deductions from there.

Besides, as posted several times in the thread here, there's a parallel space opened precisely for anyone wishing to responding to it or elaborate on ideas.

Let's see where the flow takes us. Like every body of water, it either leads us to another space or ends, and it's up to the reader to discern for themselves whether they want to go with this flow or not. Surely, though, a big part of the process we're currently going through in Avalon is also about learning the power of choices we make. I feel this thread, in it's own way, is an exercise in that.

[Tuza]

Look put it this way, someone says they have found something supposedly so bad that it will take down Bill. Well, what do you want us to do sit on our hands for a month or more, waiting patiently. I give up, but it is really annoying to say the least.

From what she writes I think that whatever brain damage she did incur she has fortunately pulled through brilliantly because she can write brilliantly, but I do feel for her after an accident like that.

It's just hells, bells and little fishes..............how long do we have to wait to find out what this supposed secret is, its very frustrating. Goin now, maybe when I come back something will be let out of the bag, who knows, maybe let Bill know and then he can let us know, good grief.

[Whiskey_Mystic]

Look put it this way, someone says they have found something supposedly so bad that it will take down Bill.

Nothing can "take down" Bill except Bill. And I'm betting he has no plans to do so.

[An Cailleach]

I totally understand where Bill is coming from. Although the intention may be good here, in the light of recent events, a thread like this could spark off another 50 pages of ranting. If this thread was started last week, that'd be a different story. Bill would probably not have even looked at the thread and let it run without any input.

It's just putting more pressure on Bill. It's bad timing.

[giovonni]

I am never going to post something destructive unless I know it to be the truth.

If you had integrity, you would have checked with me before you started this thread, which is starting to sound like an exposé in the National Enquirer (except that it'll be published next week, and you'll all have to wait). :)

I've received no e-mail or PM from you.

My e-mail address is bill@projectavalon.net. I'm not exactly hard to find. The address is all over the website.

Or just write it all out here. Then I can either explain how it is someone's genuine misunderstanding, or a deliberate smear.

Please also state clearly where you got this information from. Otherwise it's low-toned, harmful, gossip and rumor. You do understand this, yes?

Enough already.

write4right (Jai) i think you should oblige Bill with his request and communicate with him privately. Otherwise any good intent you wish to share with us all ~ will be lost on all this innuendo stuff.

[Ahkenaten]

So................carrots, anyone?



http://images.clipartof.com/small/16726-Clipart-Picture-Of-An-Orange-Carrot-Mascot-Cartoon-Character-Running-Fast.jpghttp://images.clipartof.com/small/16726-Clipart-Picture-of-An-Orange-Carrot-Mascot-Cartoon-Character-Running-Fast.jpg

[An Cailleach]

So................carrots, anyone?



http://images.clipartof.com/small/16726-Clipart-Picture-Of-An-Orange-Carrot-Mascot-Cartoon-Character-Running-Fast.jpg

Slice, no ice. Thanks

[Ruby L.]

But there's a difference in this thread, Globalcitizen-- there really hasn't been any mouth-frothing, bug-eyed ranting going on. Quite the opposite, really. The only reason w4c's posts have continued is because readers are participating-- it's co-creation... not destructive rants.

Besides, if the readers here found anything remotely foul about w4c's intentions, do you not think they'd have already raised alarms? I would. Many following this thread are staunch Avalonians-- there are still many around despite the recent storm. And it was a big storm.

[Bill Ryan]

it's co-creation... not destructive rants. .

Correct, it's not a destructive rant. But it's an innuendo - which is a respectable term for a smear (whether deliberate or otherwise).

Anyone reading this, if I was a journalist who saw you in a restaurant with an attractive person of the opposite sex who was not your spouse, and you're a public figure who could be damaged by allegations of an affair that I published in a cheap magazine, it would be professional of me to check with you first so that you could explain to me that it was really your cousin!

[jorr lundstrom]

Radio Galactica said today than small groups of troublemakers are still in our sector

but the carrots bombers are patrolling and very soon now calm will spread,

on this and surrounding planets. Love and free carrots on the house

[Ahkenaten]

Yes Radio Serious-Sidious was saying in Breaking News the same thing but then the Weathermen broke in to warn they can be killed with kindness and, of course, lots of carrots -(not sharpened with the pencil-sharpener, though!)

[Tuza]

Radio Galactica said today than small groups of troublemakers are still in our sector

but the carrots bombers are patrolling and very soon now calm will spread,

on this and surrounding planets. Love and free carrots on the house

Now I'm really laughing my arse off, your a card you are.

[write4change]

Okay, You all I have all this clear now. Bill and I have been talking. If he did not receive any PMs from me or emails. Somebody removed them.

Now that he and I have talked and I have done some more research. I have told Bill that I will put this whole thing down now. He wants it down and he says it is very important.

I literally have to take a bath and a break. It is 11:30 PM my time. I will keep at this until it is done. I will do it in sections because that is the only way I know how to function. I ask for your patience. While I can do this--you keep forgetting I am probably the oldest person on this site with permanent disability retirement based on brain damage this has been stressful. I am not to use the only thing I can think of a -- prick tease.

[An Cailleach]

But there's a difference in this thread, Globalcitizen-- there really hasn't been any mouth-frothing, bug-eyed ranting going on. Quite the opposite, really. The only reason w4c's posts have continued is because readers are participating-- it's co-creation... not destructive rants.

Besides, if the readers here found anything remotely foul about w4c's intentions, do you not think they'd have already raised alarms? I would. Many following this thread are staunch Avalonians-- there are still many around despite the recent storm. And it was a big storm.

Thanks for that. I agree that it is a lovely thread (having now finished reading most of it properly!). Sorry if I came across too negative.

I just feel that Bill needs to be considered here and now. Maybe Jai could let him in on the ending and only keep US in suspense. I am enjoying it!


edit: happy now!

[astrid]

Come on people!!!......
SERIOUSLY???

I can't believe so much work was put into this thread,
when all was required was to go DIRECT with the issue....

Excellent writing there @ write4rchange,
i look very much forward to reading more of your work in the future,

But seriously, with all that's gone on here,
we need to stop the root so we can start to heal.....

Going direct with problems solves a WHOLE heap of trouble.

(And i say this with all due respect for you write4change)

[Lord Sidious]

Okay, You all I have all this clear now. Bill and I have been talking. If he did not receive any PMs from me or emails. Somebody removed them.

Now that he and I have talked and I have done some more research. I have told Bill that I will put this whole thing down now. He wants it down and he says it is very important.

I literally have to take a bath and a break. It is 11:30 PM my time. I will keep at this until it is done. I will do it in sections because that is the only way I know how to function. I ask for your patience. While I can do this--you keep forgetting I am probably the oldest person on this site with permanent disability retirement based on brain damage this has been stressful. I am not to use the only thing I can think of a -- prick tease.

Don't stress, people here aren't going to judge you on your injury.
If they do, I will carrot em for ya.
And that is no joke.

[Ruby L.]

Thanks for your response, Globalcitizen, and you weren't being negative at all.

I agree with you, it's been a rough few days, especially for Bill who's been trying his mightiest to keep everything, everyone and himself together. No little feat, even for a superhero... which Bill's not -- he's human. But the way he's been handling everything-- I'm sending him a cape with 'SB' stitched on it for his next birthday!

Positive thoughts and healing energies are being sent Bill's and Avalon's way.


Maybe Jai could let him in on the ending and only keep US in suspense.

Sounds like a good idea! But, in a truce just made between Bill and write4change, looks like we're going to have to wait even longer. :lol:

ETA: Just saw your added note. I, too, am completely delighted with that outcome.

[giovonni]

Okay, You all I have all this clear now. Bill and I have been talking. If he did not receive any PMs from me or emails. Somebody removed them.

Now that he and I have talked and I have done some more research. I have told Bill that I will put this whole thing down now. He wants it down and he says it is very important.

I literally have to take a bath and a break. It is 11:30 PM my time. I will keep at this until it is done. I will do it in sections because that is the only way I know how to function. I ask for your patience. While I can do this--you keep forgetting I am probably the oldest person on this site with permanent disability retirement based on brain damage this has been stressful. I am not to use the only thing I can think of a -- prick tease.

Thank you Jai and thank you Bill :nod:

[An Cailleach]

Thanks for your response, Globalcitizen, and you weren't being negative at all.

I agree with you, it's been a rough few days, especially for Bill who's been trying his mightiest to keep everything, everyone and himself together. No little feat, even for a superhero... which Bill's not -- he's human. But the way he's been handling everything-- I'm sending him a cape with 'SB' stitched on it for his next birthday!

Positive thoughts and healing energies are being sent Bill's and Avalon's way.


Maybe Jai could let him in on the ending and only keep US in suspense.

Sounds like a good idea! But, in a truce just made between Bill and write4change, looks like we're going to have to wait even longer. :lol:

ETA: Just saw your added note. I, too, am completely delighted with that outcome.

LOL, I'll make the red 'overwear' so he can have the full outfit!

It's certainly time to put the mess behind us, and get behind Bill 100%. I'm really worn out from all the shenanigans.. I can't imagine how SB is feeling!

It's all gonna end well though, I can feel it in me waters! :whoo:

Elva xx

[Ruby L.]

It's all gonna end well though, I can feel it in me waters!

Me, too!


I'll make the red 'overwear' so he can have the full outfit!

*giggles uncontrollably over the image*


Thanks for all that and more, Globalcitizen.

[write4change]

While I process digesting this back to the beginning, I am writing down direct quote from Richard's place. You know I can not even cut and paste so do this took time and I was very careful. I read five whole pages there. I am a speed reader but slow writer. Bill was not feeling friendly when he first contacted me. I understood where he was coming from but I have not done anything outside of channels except this thread which technically does keep all the rules. It is interesting to me that almost every really negative so called observation comes from people at Richard's place.

I cannot even get to Richard's place on my own and I am never going back there. For some things once is enough. But on my first email to Bill I told him I had to go there before I could proceed further. So even though I know he was mad, I did not back down from what would be the whole truth or nothing. We left mutually respectful.

This is the Point of View from which everything is reflected:

Whitestar:

Bill had a TEAM who were doing all the work and overseeing the Avalon community. He only needed to offer his input, like any other member. It was all working fine. But something changed and the mods began to notice. Bill was interfering with their work, he was overr riding their decisions. These people were the back bone of Avalon, Not Bill. He was taking control and he didn't heed their opinions or advice. He knew what he was doing and he had everything under control.....

Beth:

Learn from the past or you are doomed to repeat it. That is why a chick is taking things over there.

Scott: Not a direct quote because he is very elliptical

We were an intuitive close net group. We nailed every single destructive element. We watched closely any member for disruptive behavior. Bill ignored the TEAM and vetoed the majority decisions of the team.

Shezbeth:

Not direct quote but direct word. They are neophytes over there.

Icecold:

Perfect Resonance is stalking and harassing Modwiz and I on AV2. Celine replies: Can we go to chat for this.

Janos:

We have the true spirit of Avalon back. We are home.

Richard makes a point of saying that he and Charles have only spoken about it being a consideration of him being paid.

FredKC says they are already planning how to bring weight and credibility to the forum. They are planning interviews and a possible radio show.

The issue of PMs remains there also. FredKC say explicitly that he, Beth, and Luke had more access than Bill. He again says these three never read any PMs. He also specifically states that the only one who had deep access to everything was Richard. Richard now publicly states he read no PMs.

Every one needs to read this and start drawing their own conclusions. The next section will be the beginning for me.

[astrid]

IN the spirit of transparency and "telling it like it is"
That thread over there is public, if anyone cares to view it.
http://nexus.2012info.ca/forum/showthread.php?13-What-happened-at-Project-Avalon-Richards-perspective/page1

[Scott]

Scott: Not a direct quote because he is very elliptical

We were an intuitive close net group. We nailed every single destructive element. We watched closely any member for disruptive behavior. Bill ignored the TEAM and vetoed the majority decisions of the team.

Here let me help you out with the complete quote :)


Aye, life is a hell of a ride isn't it :)

I will say the former Admins and Mods of Avalon have been a pleasure to work with, they are the best of the best. Most of the members have very little idea just how intuitive this group is. They NAILED every single destructive element that appeared on Avalon and watched closely disruptive members with personal agenda's and put the warnings out for Bill to be aware of, he chose to ignore what the team advised him of and veto majority votes by the team.

I still look forward to interviews by Bill with much anticipation, this is his skill, being a leader...not so much.

It's just a Ride
Scott

[Ross]

Oh dear...

W4C, I can smell trouble across the universe, and I am very good at it.

miss quotes....again, and very out of context. Your copy and paste skills, or lack of, seems a very convenient excuse. I am very concerned about your agenda for all. Your thread title "Telling it like it is" is also of concern.

Regards

Ross

[Luke]

Ok.

Tell you this. If somebody has a problem with stuff written on another forum - take it there.
Last time I checked it is another party.

The split has been hard to all interested.

I am putting this thread, and any other that will pop out about this subject to rest, till we decide what to do, as A TEAM. (this mean a temporary clousure)

Sleep well, take a deep breath. Bygones are bygones.

[Bill Ryan]

I will say the former Admins and Mods of Avalon have been a pleasure to work with, they are the best of the best. Most of the members have very little idea just how intuitive this group is. They NAILED every single destructive element that appeared on Avalon and watched closely disruptive members with personal agenda's and put the warnings out for Bill to be aware of, he chose to ignore what the team advised him of and veto majority votes by the team.

I still look forward to interviews by Bill with much anticipation, this is his skill, being a leader...not so much.

Including denying Wade Frazier's initial membership application because no-one in the team who processed the application (a minimum of 4 people) knew who he was!

Fortunately, Wade wrote to me in disbelief. The problem was quickly fixed.

*** I agree - this thread should be closed until W4C produces the data that she says she has - which has got something to do with Richard and Celine possessing e-mails between myself and Kerry. This is not a problem if it's true (except for reasons of confidentiality and privacy) - and not a problem if it's not true (except that this means someone has been making up stories). Stay tuned (apparently).

*** And Scott - not a single word from you in private or public in support of anything I have said or written. Not even goodbye and thanks. Great style, buddy. I thought you were a friend. I guess I misjudged that as well.

[write4change]

People after working for some time and I was pleased with the result, I hit post to be told the thread was closed and it looks like all that work went into the ether. I am more than frustrated. Too upset to sleep and too tired to write that again without resting.

I have no idea what that was all about. But while Scott may be off a tad that is not how it looked on the site. The essence is there. What is important and not talked about are the ones that are exactly completely accurate.

What we know for sure so we get this out there is that Bill is completely exhonorated and the mods are not knights of the round table.

[Teakai]

Nevermind, write4change. I feel for you. Pity you didn't type it over at "An important announcement following the closure of the WORM TONGUE thread".

People are actually calling for that one to close, but ... ??

Beats me. Maybe a Mod can shine some light. Luke?

[astrid]

write4change its a good idea to type out posts first in another word application,
that way u can save them....

Even if u write it in you email program, then copy it when u have finished most email apps usually auto save.

[Steph]

Dear W4C/Jai,

Forgive me but can you clarify something for me please?

You are using Windows 3 but due to your accident you are unable to remember how to use certain features such as copy and paste?

There are shortcuts for that; Ctrl C = copy and Ctrl V = paste. Perhaps a PostIt note on your monitor would help?

I know how difficult it can be when you suffer from mental blocks, I've seen it first hand, incredibly difficult and frustrating. I know you are an exceedingly clever lady and you will have probably already thought of this but perhaps you could type your future posts in Word first, save them and then copy and paste to your post using the shortcut method above. That way, you never lose your work.

Forgive me if I'm teaching you how to suck eggs!

Mouse x

Edit: Astrid, were you just in my head? I think you read my mind! :)

[Vangelo]

Don't stress, people here aren't going to judge you on your injury.
If they do, I will carrot em for ya.
And that is no joke.

Hi Lord Sidious,

I must admit that I thought the previous references to carrots were just more wasted space on the forum, but this time you got a real laugh out of me, thanx :-)

Regards,
Vangelo

[Anchor]

Never compose more than say three to maybe five line posts in the forum editor - use notepad or word, then cut and paste it in

Can someone who lives in California please go around to write4change's house and give her some lessons in web kung-fu :) :)

[Isostool]

Jeeeeeee zuz

Everywhere.. there is perpetuation of duality.

The point IS, I would argue, not to say 'how it APPEARS to be'. Because illusion is so much everywhere. It is to understand and come from a place where there is unification. Oneness. Non separation.

because separation is an illusion. If you choose to come from the place of central unity of self [and self in unity with the all-that-is] and go towards this place as well taking all your reality as well as guiding the reality of those who read what you say to this place [which happens when anyone reads anything, practically], then there IS no separation. You do NOT perpetuate the illusion. Doing anything else makes you A PART OF THE PROBLEM ITSELF.

Why the F*** perpetuate it? Seriously. What the hell have we all been learning about all these years. huh? As soon as it matters it's all 'oooh look at the nexus forum, aren't they the bad guys'. or what ever.

It doesn't mean speaking in spiritual stillness zen type sand meditations, necessarily, but it IS about HOW you do it and WHERE you come from. You can be from centre and still hold a stick - it is just that it comes from and goes TO unity.

Be a rock and no wind can sway you. no hand can manipulate you. Influence not by moving with the illusion but BY REMAINING AS STILL AND SOLID as the immovable anchor of ONE. One never moves because there is no where for everything that exists to move to - it is singular and it is all that there is. there IS no more space, of any kind. Therefore it CAN NOT MOVE [spacetime travel is about changing geometry in the singularity of existence not about anything actually moving as such]. It's not about who is what is that is done is not is said what is doing anything but not. it is about staying centred. staying unified. staying in your power. THIS is where our power lives.

And working towards the relief of suffering of all life.

So. [are] you going to look at all that precious life which cannot protect itself and tell it WHY the F*** you can't focus on setting it free of tyranny..... because you want to be all 'oooohhhhh look at the blah blah blah?'

Look it in the eye and tell it why.

Have some self respect, and respect for the things on this planet which suffer... and stop it. it is NOT the priority here. The priority is staying as a functional unit in order to assist the planet. This is about self sacrifice and putting whatever is your duality down and holding unified self for a bigger purpose.

unity within self, creates unity without. and not necessarily a simple unity. it can be a very complicated unity, but it is STILL ONE PICTURE with a single goal. the freedom of all life and a healed effing planet.

It DOESN'T MATTER who said what. Those people over there [I point to places in the aether] who suffer from APPALLING ignorance on this planet, MATTER.

THEY MATTER. [!!!!!!!!!!!]

get your effing priorities in order. please. The suffering on this planet is appalling and sickening. And caused by things which are fixable. And most importantly... fixable by YOU. by US.

THEY are suffering MORE than YOU.

And because we are holographic [all in one, one in all], they ARE you.

When we are unified as a rock both within AND without, we become untouchable.

Do it for THEM.

but as it is...

jeeeeeeeee zuz.

[I go to make a cup of green tea.... sigh... forgive this lady]

:angel: unified :angel: wholeness :angel: sublime weapon :angel: of freedom

for all life which IS

[Isostool]

delete post.... apologies... elevator music...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Trhsw_BxT_k


And not only are you being served,

but Are You Serving?

[Teakai]

Jeeeeeee zuz

Everywhere.. there is perpetuation of duality.

The point IS, I would argue, not to say 'how it APPEARS to be'. Because illusion is so much everywhere. It is to understand and come from a place where there is unification. Oneness. Non separation.

because separation is an illusion. If you choose to come from the place of central unity of self [and self in unity with the all-that-is] and go towards this place as well taking all your reality as well as guiding the reality of those who read what you say to this place [which happens when anyone reads anything, practically], then there IS no separation. You do NOT perpetuate the illusion. Doing anything else makes you A PART OF THE PROBLEM ITSELF.

Why the F*** perpetuate it? Seriously. What the hell have we all been learning about all these years. huh? As soon as it matters it's all 'oooh look at the nexus forum, aren't they the bad guys'. or what ever.

It doesn't mean speaking in spiritual stillness zen type sand meditations, necessarily, but it IS about HOW you do it and WHERE you come from. You can be from centre and still hold a stick - it is just that it comes from and goes TO unity.

Be a rock and no wind can sway you. no hand can manipulate you. Influence not by moving with the illusion but BY REMAINING AS STILL AND SOLID as the immovable anchor of ONE. One never moves because there is no where for everything that exists to move to - it is singular and it is all that there is. there IS no more space, of any kind. Therefore it CAN NOT MOVE [time travel is about changing geometry in the singularity of existence not about anything actually moving as such]. It's not about who is what is that is done is not is said what is doing anything but not. it is about staying centred. staying unified. staying in your power. THIS is where our power lives.

And working towards the relief of suffering of all life.

So. [are] you going to look at all that precious life which cannot protect itself and tell it WHY the F*** you can't focus on setting it free of tyranny..... because you want to be all 'oooohhhhh look at the blah blah blah?'

Look it in the eye and tell it why.

Have some self respect, and respect for the things on this planet which suffer... and stop it. it is NOT the priority here. The priority is staying as a functional unit in order to assist the planet. This is about self sacrifice and putting whatever is your duality down and holding unified self for a bigger purpose.

unity within self, creates unity without. and not necessarily a simple unity. it can be a very complicated unity, but it is STILL ONE PICTURE with a single goal. the freedom of all life and a healed effing planet.

It DOESN'T MATTER who said what. Those people over there [I point to places in the aether] who suffer from APPALLING ignorance on this planet, MATTER.

THEY MATTER. [!!!!!!!!!!!]

get your effing priorities in order. please. The suffering on this planet is appalling and sickening. And caused by things which are fixable. And most importantly... fixable by YOU. by US.

THEY are suffering MORE than YOU.

And because we are holographic [all in one, one in all], they ARE you.

When we are unified as a rock both within AND without, we become untouchable.

Do it for THEM.

but as it is...

jeeeeeeeee zuz.

[I go to make a cup of green tea.... sigh... forgive this lady]

:angel: unified :angel: peace :angel: sublime weapon :angel: of freedom

:lol:

Beautiful, Isotool. Just beautiful. Your words, your tone - I feel so....united and at peace and humbled by your expression and call for unity.

Thank you so much.
:hug:

[ulli]

Edit: Astrid, were you just in my head? I think you read my mind! :)

That's what big cats do best...read the minds of mice.

[Icecold]

Beautiful, Isotool. Just beautiful. Your words, your tone - I feel so....united and at peace and humbled by your expression and call for unity.

Thank you so much.



Isn't it just.... :bump:

[jorr lundstrom]

Wot are you reading Mr Shakespeare?

Just words, words, words

[Isostool]

Wot are you reading Mr Shakespeare?

Just words, words, words

Forums tend to have words in them Jorr, yes.

[Icecold]

Wot are you reading Mr Shakespeare?

Just words, words, words


I get the impression that Iso is an action lady if she's given the opportunity.


http://rlv.zcache.com/cute_cartoon_rabbit_greeting_and_note_card-p137495491188020653vrnj_500.jpg

[Maria Stade]

Wot are you reading Mr Shakespeare?

Just words, words, words


I get the impression that Iso is an action lady if she's given the opportunity.




http://rlv.zcache.com/cute_cartoon_rabbit_greeting_and_note_card-p137495491188020653vrnj_500.jpg


Who has stopped her ? ;)

[ulli]

IMAGE:
not funny any more
it showed a toilet seat in front of a computer desk, and the caption said:
all we need now is a microwave and a fridge.
It was moved to the funny pictures thread, where it found a more appropriate setting
~ulli

[ulli]

barbie at 50 can be found in the funny pictures thread~ ulli

[Maria Stade]

IMAGE:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=5486&thumb=1&d=1299338121

now all we need is a fridge and a microwave

:first: A winner !!! Dont even have to move to take a s***

Just order home pizza, and why not order home new cloths when needed no need for washing and stuff.

[Ilie Pandia]

:focus:

Please let's keep this on topic.

[jjl]

IN the spirit of transparency and "telling it like it is"
That thread over there is public, if anyone cares to view it.
http://nexus.2012info.ca/forum/showthread.php?13-What-happened-at-Project-Avalon-Richards-perspective/page1

Now I get it. In another thread I spoke of how I dreamt I was rejected from Avalon. I probably was! In this instance I had emailed Bill Ryan and he assured me I was in. WOW! Thank you Bill

[ulli]

another one of my not so funny contributions. It has outlived it's purpose
~ulli

[ulli]

IN the spirit of transparency and "telling it like it is"
That thread over there is public, if anyone cares to view it.
http://nexus.2012info.ca/forum/showthread.php?13-What-happened-at-Project-Avalon-Richards-perspective/page1

Now I get it. In another thread I spoke of how I dreamt I was rejected from Avalon. I probably was! In this instance I had emailed Bill Ryan and he assured me I was in. WOW! Thank you Bill

You are very much IN
with your wit and sensitivity...(notice I didn't even mention "looks"?)

[ulli]

:focus:

Please let's keep this on topic.

ulli, hearing rumbles...

[Lord Sidious]

IMAGE:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=5486&thumb=1&d=1299338121

now all we need is a fridge and a microwave

Hang on, where is the 100,000 watts of sound system that you use to listen to metal whilst searching the net?

[jjl]

Ulli says: You are very much IN
with your wit and sensitivity:o
Aww shucks, but your intuition freaks me out a little. Really! The things you say...understood and acknowledged. My early deprivation permits me the comfort of holding on and acknowledging what I missed.

Can't you see it? ;)

[ulli]

careful people we now have to talk quietly and no more pictures, anyone, they go PFFFT, there is an invisible finger on the RED button...

[ulli]

Ulli says: You are very much IN
with your wit and sensitivity:o
Aww shucks, but your intuition freaks me out a little. Really! The things you say...understood and acknowledged. My early deprivation permits me the comfort of holding on and acknowledging what I missed.

Can't you see it? ;)

this is TELLING YOU LIKE IT IS, OK?

EARLY DEPRIVATION MEANS HAPPY ENDINGS...Comedy
HAPPY BEGINNINGS MEAN DEPRIVATION LATER DOWN THE LINE...Tragedy
see the difference?

[jjl]

Wrong place for the post but you rock Ulli ! Sorry to everyone else.

[jjl]

For those of you thrown off by the "King Arthur" revelatons, it would do well to remember the quote A cat may look at a Queen or something like that.

[Sarlic]

Too much control on Avalon the last few days.

Best to take a break till it sorts itself out.

Peace
John

[jjl]

sooo see you later John! Now where were we?

[Ahkenaten]

Back to my request to post Goethe's epic Bildungsroman The Apprenticeship of Wilhelm Meister in its entirety in a thread of my own - or here for that matter. As I said, before my post was apparently mistakenly moved - a precedent has clearly been set for this sort of thing by Write4Change, and based on the enormously warm support she has received for her work, I would imagine my idea would be supported as well. I am not disabled in any way, but I think reverse discrimination is a very bad precedent as well!

[ulli]

sooo see you later John! Now where were we?

hey, the room looks empty...

[Whiskey_Mystic]

Don't stress, people here aren't going to judge you on your injury.
If they do, I will carrot em for ya.
And that is no joke.

Hi Lord Sidious,

I must admit that I thought the previous references to carrots were just more wasted space on the forum, but this time you got a real laugh out of me, thanx :-)

Regards,
Vangelo

Lord Sidious' heart is the right place, even if his carrots are in the wrong place. Such as up my nose.

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i157/SealJuice/carrottop3.jpg

[ulli]

Back to my request to post Goethe's epic Bildungsroman The Apprenticeship of Wilhelm Meister in its entirety in a thread of my own - or here for that matter. As I said, before my post was apparently mistakenly moved - a precedent has clearly been set for this sort of thing by Write4Change, and based on the enormously warm support she has received for her work, I would imagine my idea would be supported as well. I am not disabled in any way, but I think reverse discrimination is a very bad precedent as well!


Bring it on! Long live Goethe, the greatest Virgo that ever lived!
As to disabilities... show me someone who isn't disabled in some way, some invisibly ...

[ulli]

Here is Al Pacino
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WdWH53nsu8&feature=related

[ulli]

Don't stress, people here aren't going to judge you on your injury.
If they do, I will carrot em for ya.
And that is no joke.

Hi Lord Sidious,

I must admit that I thought the previous references to carrots were just more wasted space on the forum, but this time you got a real laugh out of me, thanx :-)

Regards,
Vangelo

Lord Sidious' heart is the right place, even if his carrots are in the wrong place. Such as up my nose.

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i157/SealJuice/carrottop3.jpg

Now, if you had to take down that picture, which i hope they will make you do, and soon,
since we can't have them singling me out here, and pick on my nose,
HOW
would you then get your very serious message across, with just words.
You would have to take writing lessons from W4C.
In exchange for what.
Expect her to do it for FREE???????
yeah,
right!

[Beth]

Hey w4c, way to misquote me and take it out of context, especially the part where I said I was kidding. Please don't drag me into this mudslinging, it's not my style. I'd much prefer everyone venture on their own paths with mutual love and support. Now that sounds a lot more like what I actually wrote.

[ulli]

Ulli lost her humor today

[InCiDeR]

...wall of text...

Jeeeeeee zuz

I think I just fell in love... with myself... again :luv:

[Maria Stade]

...wall of text...

Jeeeeeee zuz

I think I just fell in love... with myself... again :luv:

Well done ;)

[grannyfranny100]

Well I am way behind reading this thread as it is about to close. I was shocked that when Bill was open and transparent with you (#35) that instead of some words of kindness or appreciation, you copied extensive MyersBriggs text (#40) and present it as if it is a definitive analysis of his personality.

Are you professionally qualified to administer this test? Did you do so or are you just guessing that you have Bill's personality pegged?

I got the feeling that instead, your effort was like when I was a teenager and would sit around with girlfriends analyzing boyfriends from the latest best selling astrology book. I am having difficulty understanding this. Could you explain?

BTW, I recall from something else Bill wrote ages ago that he officially administered this test in one of his previous consulting positions to help others? I do not understand why you did this and what the point was of doing so.
Could you clarify this for me? Thank you

[K626]

It's really sad to observe so much energy being wasted in threads like this.

Peace

K

[Dennis Jonathan]

"... on post number 800, a strong numerical number, talked about how it was almost impossible to get any clarity on anything after three pages."

And another one bites the dust.

On a positive note, there will be a Walmart opening on page 15 of this thread.

[Ilie Pandia]

I made a wrong decision that has now been reversed.

All the posts are back here. (If not please let me know!)

I apologize to those that got their posts moved and especially to Ulli because I have temporarily moderated her.

I hope no permanent damage has been done... :yield:

[ulli]

deleted by Ulli...no longer funny

[Maria Stade]

I made a wrong decision that has now been reversed.

All the posts are back here. (If not please let me know!)

I apologize to those that got their posts moved and especially to Ulli because I have temporarily moderated her.

I hope no permanent damage has been done... :yield:

We all make wrong decision, but hey we do what we think is for the best in every moment !
And perhaps it was the right one to do in that moment !

It is a greatness to admit and change !

Big warm HUG to You !:hug:

[Limor Wolf]

I made a wrong decision that has now been reversed.

All the posts are back here. (If not please let me know!)

I apologize to those that got their posts moved and especially to Ulli because I have temporarily moderated her.

I hope no permanent damage has been done... :yield:

It's ok, just get a shave or something...not meaning to be rude...so, you are having a fun time on your unpaid job?

you dont mean to ,but you are.

[Ilie Pandia]

I made a wrong decision that has now been reversed.

All the posts are back here. (If not please let me know!)

I apologize to those that got their posts moved and especially to Ulli because I have temporarily moderated her.

I hope no permanent damage has been done... :yield:

It's ok, just get a shave or something...not meaning to be rude...so, you are having a fun time on your unpaid job?

you dont mean to ,but you are.

She is not Limor. We have talked and all is well! :)

[jorr lundstrom]

I made a wrong decision that has now been reversed.

All the posts are back here. (If not please let me know!)

I apologize to those that got their posts moved and especially to Ulli because I have temporarily moderated her.

I hope no permanent damage has been done... :yield:


I love to see an administrator from the human level of existence. Thank you.;)

[Dennis Jonathan]

Am I totally misreading the intent of ahkenatan and ulli, or are you two deliberately trolling this thread?

If so, shame on you. Trolling has no place on Avalon.

[ulli]

It's really sad to observe so much energy being wasted in threads like this.

Peace

K

I have been confused today, misjudged this thread quite a bit, and still I am totally baffled.
Whatkind of a thread is this?
What is this thread about?
How shall we define this thread?

And "energy being wasted"....ever since I found out how big Al Gore's light bill is
I can't think about energy in normal terms any more.
Will someone
PleasePleasePlease
tell me what's 'appening?
And please moderator, I'm just telling it like it is, is that so off topic?

[ulli]

I made a wrong decision that has now been reversed.

All the posts are back here. (If not please let me know!)

I apologize to those that got their posts moved and especially to Ulli because I have temporarily moderated her.

I hope no permanent damage has been done... :yield:

It's ok, just get a shave or something...not meaning to be rude...so, you are having a fun time on your unpaid job?

you dont mean to ,but you are.

She is not Limor. We have talked and all is well! :)

Yes, we are ok now.
having a little dance to make up after our little disagreement:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=5496&thumb=1&d=1299364792

[aikya]

It's really sad to observe so much energy being wasted in threads like this.

Peace

K

I have been confused today, misjudged this thread quite a bit, and still I am totally baffled.
Whatkind of a thread is this?
What is this thread about?
How shall we define this thread?

And "energy being wasted"....ever since I found out how big Al Gore's light bill is
I can't think about energy in normal terms any more.
Will someone
PleasePleasePlease
tell me what's 'appening?
And please moderator, I'm just telling it like it is, is that so off topic?


There's a sister thread here http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?15568-control-freaks-on-Write4change-s-thread... for those who want to discuss this thread.....so as to generously respect w4c's wish (and that of the participants) that this thread remains clear and uncluttered.

[jorr lundstrom]

Am I totally misreading the intent of ahkenatan and ulli, or are you two deliberately trolling this thread?

If so, shame on you. Trolling has no place on Avalon.


I have very good friend who writes for Radio Galactica. This is done to create a desired enotional response.

To lift the mood a little when after knives has filled the air and blood stained the walls for too long. Is this forbidden?

I have already been banned once because I didnt understand that the rules could be twisted as they were.

Honestly, i want to know how are the rules on this? And I want you mods and admin to make a statement on this.

Because I dont want to recieve a PM saying you are banned for creating some laughter. In that case I want to know

that its forbidden to create laughter so I at least know wot I put on stake when I am having some fun.

Wikipedias view on trolling below:




"Do not feed the trolls" and its abbreviation "DNFTT" redirect here. For the Wikimedia essay, see "What is a troll?".
The trollface is widely used to represent the act of trolling

In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into a desired emotional response[1] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[2] In addition to the offending poster, the noun troll can also refer to the provocative message itself, as in "that was an excellent troll you posted". While the term troll and its associated action trolling are primarily associated with Internet discourse, media attention in recent years has made such labels highly subjective, with trolling being used to describe intentionally provocative actions outside of an online context. For example, recent media accounts have used the term troll to describe "a person who defaces internet tribute sites with the aim of causing grief to families."[3][4]


Sorry if this is OT but after reading Dennis´s post about two posters who hasnt done any harm wotsoever I want to know. Love

[Ross]

Hi all,


Including denying Wade Frazier's initial membership application because no-one in the team who processed the application (a minimum of 4 people) knew who he was!

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?15563-Telling-It-Like-It-Is&p=166161&viewfull=1#post166161

I feel I should say that with Wades application, I have asked 3 Mods, including myself that at the time of his APP we did not know who he was. Never actually had heard of him. We certainly do now and am most grateful that Bill got him approved.

I can not remember the APP in question as we had many hundreds to process, often upwards of 30-50 per day. As I do not have access to the APP lists due to my 'stepping down' It would be of interest to view it again and see the 4 who denied the APP. This may show how it slipped by as "not approved" due to the APPLICANT (Wade) as been unknown and possibly due to the app being to thin to discern. From my perspective it was not a case of 'lack of intuition' but rather 'little to go on' .We cannot reach into the ethers and download a persons suitibility from an APP that may of had little to 'go by'...I may be wrong but it was not always an easy task doing the APPs....

Again I say well done to Bill for approving him eventually and my sincere apologies to Wade for the time it took.

Regrads

Ross.

[ulli]

Hi Ross

You said: "As I do not have access to the APP lists due to my 'stepping down' "

What do you mean by "stepping down"?
Until you tell me I can't make any sense of your post.
Maybe others here might like to know, too.

Just curious.

[Ross]

Hi Ross

You said: "As I do not have access to the APP lists due to my 'stepping down' "

What do you mean by "stepping down"?
Until you tell me I can't make any sense of your post.
Maybe others here might like to know, too.

Just curious.

Stepping down as a Moderator. I have no access anymore to the Mod area as I am now a Member only.

[aikya]

Hi all,


Including denying Wade Frazier's initial membership application because no-one in the team who processed the application (a minimum of 4 people) knew who he was!

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?15563-Telling-It-Like-It-Is&p=166161&viewfull=1#post166161

I feel I should say that with Wades application, I have asked 3 Mods, including myself that at the time of his APP we did not know who he was. Never actually had heard of him. We certainly do now and am most grateful that Bill got him approved.

I can not remember the APP in question as we had many hundreds to process, often upwards of 30-50 per day. As I do not have access to the APP lists due to my 'stepping down' It would be of interest to view it again and see the 4 who denied the APP. This may show how it slipped by as "not approved" due to the APPLICANT (Wade) as been unknown and possibly due to the app being to thin to discern. From my perspective it was not a case of 'lack of intuition' but rather 'little to go on' .We cannot reach into the ethers and download a persons suitibility from an APP that may of had little to 'go by'...I may be wrong but it was not always an easy task doing the APPs....

Again I say well done to Bill for approving him eventually and my sincere apologies to Wade for the time it took.

Regrads

Ross.

Thanks Ross for your being so gracious in your reply. :)

[Dennis Jonathan]

Jorr,

"doing no harm", is a phrase that can have many interpretations.

Being offensive, and being hostile are two totally different things.

Posting a wall of text about Beowulf, or inserting random carrot pictures is not inherintly hatefull. Attaching a mock title like "Lady" Jai, is not an outright personal attack.

Subtle implications, feigned ignorance, and apologetic disrespect are the equivilant of whispered insults.

You may find that the term trolling does not apply, but I can smell a troll from a mile off.

As I said earler, and as Jai predicted, the meadow in this thread was bulldozed after page 3, and what followed was an empty lot.

Feel free to stay for the shopping centers grand opening, I myself will be taking my leave.

If only we could all be as gracious as John was, and keep an open mind. Ive learned something from every poster at Avalon. From some, the lessons of what to become, from others, what not to.

Apologies if this offends, it was meant to be harsh but not insulting.

[Shezbeth]

Shezbeth:

Not direct quote but direct word. They are neophytes over there. :tsk:

THAT could be construed as a character assassination. I'm disappointed. Below is the post I made on Richard's site in it's entirety and in context - wanting to make a bad situation better for everyone.


When I observe the events that have unfolded I see a myriad of circumstances facilitating a fractalization of groups. I find that this is appropriate, as it mirrors what occurs in nature. Avalon is now populated by an increasingly neophyte group which will have the opportunity to individually grow and evolve. This group it seems, has it's own course and level of understanding.

When expanding from a singularity all particles eventually find that their directions are slightliy different, and this becomes more apparent the further they progress. This is not unfortunate, this is inevitable - it is nature. Thank you for the opportunity to listen to your voices, and the opportunity to express mine. I look forward to what is to come.

[Maria Stade]

Dennis Jonathan
You may find that the term trolling does not apply, but I can smell a troll from a mile off.


So can I and bad wibes have this one :mmph:

[Maria Stade]

Jay used my text in a puzzle that maybe only she can understand !
I will not be rude to her she made her own creation of words !

May she heal and you should think of how you behave against others on this forum !

[jorr lundstrom]

Jorr,

"doing no harm", is a phrase that can have many interpretations.

Being offensive, and being hostile are two totally different things.

Posting a wall of text about Beowulf, or inserting random carrot pictures is not inherintly hatefull. Attaching a mock title like "Lady" Jai, is not an outright personal attack.

Subtle implications, feigned ignorance, and apologetic disrespect are the equivilant of whispered insults.

You may find that the term trolling does not apply, but I can smell a troll from a mile off.

As I said earler, and as Jai predicted, the meadow in this thread was bulldozed after page 3, and what followed was an empty lot.

Feel free to stay for the shopping centers grand opening, I myself will be taking my leave.

If only we could all be as gracious as John was, and keep an open mind. Ive learned something from every poster at Avalon. From some, the lessons of what to become, from others, what not to.

Apologies if this offends, it was meant to be harsh but not insulting.


Im not offended. And I understand now that you are talking about old sins.

But I still want to know if having some fun and creating some laughter is seen

as trolling. And maybye love and carrots is OT too.

If my nose ever get too sensitive I will turn to Lord Sidius for a cure.

[mondaze]

too much carrot not enough stick? too many trolls not enough billy goats? or am i completely lost?

[ulli]

Hi Ross

You said: "As I do not have access to the APP lists due to my 'stepping down' "

What do you mean by "stepping down"?
Until you tell me I can't make any sense of your post.
Maybe others here might like to know, too.

Just curious.

Stepping down as a Moderator. I have no access anymore to the Mod area as I am now a Member only.


My "Thank you" button no longer works. So I'm thanking you like this.

i may report the button not working.

[Teakai]

Back to my request to post Goethe's epic Bildungsroman The Apprenticeship of Wilhelm Meister in its entirety in a thread of my own - or here for that matter. As I said, before my post was apparently mistakenly moved - a precedent has clearly been set for this sort of thing by Write4Change, and based on the enormously warm support she has received for her work, I would imagine my idea would be supported as well. I am not disabled in any way, but I think reverse discrimination is a very bad precedent as well!

So - go start it then, Ahk.
I wonder if people will oblige you or if you'll get back what you dished out.

It'll be an interesting study :)

[Teakai]

It's really sad to observe so much energy being wasted in threads like this.

Peace

K

???????? :lol:
Aren't you wasting energy by typing this?
Thereby contributing to your own sadness?
;)

[Teakai]

[
I have been confused today, misjudged this thread quite a bit, and still I am totally baffled.
Whatkind of a thread is this?
What is this thread about?
How shall we define this thread?

And "energy being wasted"....ever since I found out how big Al Gore's light bill is
I can't think about energy in normal terms any more.
Will someone
PleasePleasePlease
tell me what's 'appening?
And please moderator, I'm just telling it like it is, is that so off topic?

Hi Ulli, I'll oblige.
In a way this thread could be seen as an experiment in whether or not we had the capabilites to be able to work together and comply with each other to make someone's idea work.
To allow another a small request.
Be team players in a way - co creators to an idea.

Some can - some find it difficult.

Authority steps in as they see some sort of projected threat and close the thread.

It's open again - that's a sign of hope.

It's also a thread Write4change opened to tell us something. We don;t know quite what it is yet.
We may have by now, but the thread was closed and the post lost.

If you read all through the thread you'll find the answer to why this is a big deal for Write4change.
I imagine she no longer feels inspired to spend anymore energy on this - I don't blame her.

[jjl]

It sounded like a warning for Bill, Not to Bill, wish I could have finished reading her painstakingly written post

[shijo]

:focus:

Please let's keep this on topic.

ulli, hearing rumbles...
the mods right lets keep it on topic, but that was so bloody funny that picture still peeing myself here.wont comment any more.

[Dennis Jonathan]

Jorr,

"doing no harm", is a phrase that can have many interpretations.

Being offensive, and being hostile are two totally different things.

Posting a wall of text about Beowulf, or inserting random carrot pictures is not inherintly hatefull. Attaching a mock title like "Lady" Jai, is not an outright personal attack.

Subtle implications, feigned ignorance, and apologetic disrespect are the equivilant of whispered insults.

You may find that the term trolling does not apply, but I can smell a troll from a mile off.

As I said earler, and as Jai predicted, the meadow in this thread was bulldozed after page 3, and what followed was an empty lot.

Feel free to stay for the shopping centers grand opening, I myself will be taking my leave.

If only we could all be as gracious as John was, and keep an open mind. Ive learned something from every poster at Avalon. From some, the lessons of what to become, from others, what not to.

Apologies if this offends, it was meant to be harsh but not insulting.


Im not offended. And I understand now that you are talking about old sins.

But I still want to know if having some fun and creating some laughter is seen

as trolling. And maybye love and carrots is OT too.

If my nose ever get too sensitive I will turn to Lord Sidius for a cure.

Not sure what you mean by old sins exactly.

It is near impossible to make a rigid set of absolute rules of forum etiquette. Conversations, like people, are dynamic.

My opinion is this.

A well time joke intended to liven up a sad or hurtful exchange can be just what a conversation needs. See: almost every post Lord Sidius has made.

A playful or joking reference made in the midst of a riveting and positive conversation can be, at the very least, an unnecessary distraction.

As an example:

You are sitting with a loved one, who is heartbroken about a recent break up with her boyfriend. She finishes crying, and says "how will I ever find someone like him again?". You reply "You don't have to worry about that, I have him tied up in my trunk, I know exactly where he is".

Probably will result in a well needed chuckle.

Different scenario:

You are sitting with a loved one, who is heartbroken about the recent kidnapping of her boyfriend. She finishes crying, and says "what if we never find him?". You reply "You don't have to worry about that, I have him tied up in my trunk, I know exactly where he is".

Same joke, different effect.

It's all about reading the situation, and thinking "what can I do to help this turn positive". Sometimes the answer is a joke, sometimes its a rebuke, and sometimes the answer is silence.

[modwiz]

I sympathize with Jorr. There may be rules but there does seem to be a floating quality to them.

Kind of like trying to see if your ass looks fat in a pair of jeans in the Fun House Hall of Mirrors.
Each mirror reflects something different back.

Some subtle and some not so.

[Tuza]

Am I totally misreading the intent of ahkenatan and ulli, or are you two deliberately trolling this thread?

If so, shame on you. Trolling has no place on Avalon.


I have very good friend who writes for Radio Galactica. This is done to create a desired enotional response.

To lift the mood a little when after knives has filled the air and blood stained the walls for too long. Is this forbidden?

I have already been banned once because I didnt understand that the rules could be twisted as they were.

Honestly, i want to know how are the rules on this? And I want you mods and admin to make a statement on this.

Because I dont want to recieve a PM saying you are banned for creating some laughter. In that case I want to know

that its forbidden to create laughter so I at least know wot I put on stake when I am having some fun.

Wikipedias view on trolling below:




"Do not feed the trolls" and its abbreviation "DNFTT" redirect here. For the Wikimedia essay, see "What is a troll?".
The trollface is widely used to represent the act of trolling

In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into a desired emotional response[1] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[2] In addition to the offending poster, the noun troll can also refer to the provocative message itself, as in "that was an excellent troll you posted". While the term troll and its associated action trolling are primarily associated with Internet discourse, media attention in recent years has made such labels highly subjective, with trolling being used to describe intentionally provocative actions outside of an online context. For example, recent media accounts have used the term troll to describe "a person who defaces internet tribute sites with the aim of causing grief to families."[3][4]


Sorry if this is OT but after reading Dennis´s post about two posters who hasnt done any harm wotsoever I want to know. Love

Sometimes Jorr's humour is the only thing that puts a smile on my face, even after I log off I could be sitting outside and start laughing again.

You do that Jorr, thank you for doing that, much love to you. xo

[ulli]

I had a severe shock today. Several, actually. The worm tongue thread was closed the very instant I was pressing a send button. That stunned me, it was before I had had my breakfast. I thought why can't they have a little count down meter, so that one could have copy/pasted first.
And then later during the day I was moderated, banned from access to all sorts of areas, and I will come to that later.

When I came here I had total trust that this group was going to do a series of carefully planned mind excercises that would become ever more effective at recreating a balanced planet...
even to the point of preventing quakes in stress zones.
For nearly 30 years I have lived in hurricane prone areas and then in earth quake zones, and when an earthquake strikes it is so frightening that I have literally whet myself. Preparing a house in the chaos of an approaching hurricane is also not something I ever want to do again.
So I was making friends, being light, not flippant, and gradually getting to know people. Have only been here for one week.
I took to W4C immediately and we exchanged PMs.
Then suddenly I noticed that she became very nervous, and I believe it happened after moderators started interfering with her posts.
The last thing I read was that she was overtired, and that she thought the moderators were going above Bill's head and that he was in danger, somehow. that ther was a mutiny to take over Project Avalon.
And I could swear, that she asked us to do deliberate wild things to the thread-- ON PURPOSE --so as to push the moderators to take full action, and expose themselves. So I obliged her, posted jokes, etc. all to save Bill from a take-over.
This is what I was doing today, and it had a frightening result.
When I saw a window pop up that said Access denied, and then when will it become reopened the word was NEVER, my heart missed several beats.
So then I hurried to send a PM to a friend, to tell her and ask her for her email, and the same thing happened. Access denied.
It felt scary, as if I was in some Kafkaesque novel. Then I calmed down, took deep breaths, and gradually found a way of communicating with the moderator, I even told him he was going to be in trouble with Bill for what he had done. Perhaps this young man had no idea what effect these moderation methods can have on someone who is bubbly and happy and excited. I wouldn't be surprised if someone might have a heart attack as a result of this kind of a shock.
Reestablishing my trust after what happened today is going to be no easy feat.

[jjl]

great post ulli, thanks ...

[ulli]

[
I have been confused today, misjudged this thread quite a bit, and still I am totally baffled.
Whatkind of a thread is this?
What is this thread about?
How shall we define this thread?

And "energy being wasted"....ever since I found out how big Al Gore's light bill is
I can't think about energy in normal terms any more.
Will someone
PleasePleasePlease
tell me what's 'appening?
And please moderator, I'm just telling it like it is, is that so off topic?

Hi Ulli, I'll oblige.
In a way this thread could be seen as an experiment in whether or not we had the capabilites to be able to work together and comply with each other to make someone's idea work.
To allow another a small request.
Be team players in a way - co creators to an idea.

Some can - some find it difficult.

Authority steps in as they see some sort of projected threat and close the thread.

.

That's how i understood her initial request, which I only discovered after inadvertently inviting her to the party on the worm thread which was going to be closed.
I even apologized to her for having disregarded her wishes, as it was an accident.
But later on when she was going through a meltdown of her own, I could SWEAR i saw her post in which she said keep on posting...anything goes...i need to have a bath, etc ...be absent for a while.
Right now I am soo tired, I can't search anymore. The labyrynth is too huge for me, and I'm dropping.
But I think she also asked people to copy/ paste material for her. Can anyone here help me with recreating the timeline of these events, please?

[NxTLvL34]

nevermind..............................................................

[Teakai]

That's how i understood her initial request, which I only discovered after inadvertently inviting her to the party on the worm thread which was going to be closed.
I even apologized to her for having disregarded her wishes, as it was an accident.
But later on when she was going through a meltdown of her own, I could SWEAR i saw her post in which she said keep on posting...anything goes...i need to have a bath, etc ...be absent for a while.
Right now I am soo tired, I can't search anymore. The labyrynth is too huge for me, and I'm dropping.
But I think she also asked people to copy/ paste material for her. Can anyone here help me with recreating the timeline of these events, please?

:) Don't think I was criticising you Ulli, I was just filling you in. You are right, Write4change did ask everyone to join in because she didn't want the mods to close the thread.

I don't know that I can help much with time lines - it's all gone rather potty.

[Dennis Jonathan]

I may have missinterpreted, if I did I apologize.

I generally lean toward being over-protective regarding those I care about.

[ThePythonicCow]

Perhaps this young man had no idea what effect these moderation methods can have on someone who is bubbly and happy and excited. I wouldn't be surprised if someone might have a heart attack as a result of this kind of a shock.
The mod you're speaking of is Ilie. He's fine. We've been a little short handed this week, and he was moderating without any backup. He's asleep now, but he'd probably be chuckling if he were awake and reading this. This thread had apparently wandered off its initially intended course and he was trying to get the thread back on track, with what tools he had and knew to use. I trust you have everything put back normally with your account and postings, ulli. Send me a PM if anything is still strange (it might take me a half hour or more for me to notice -- I am multi-tasking at the moment.)

When Ilie related the story to me about a half day ago, I was amazed that you hung in there and managed to stay connected with him through that -- good work.

[Champion the Wonderhorse]

I had a severe shock today. Several, actually. The worm tongue thread was closed the very instant I was pressing a send button. That stunned me, it was before I had had my breakfast. I thought why can't they have a little count down meter, so that one could have copy/pasted first.
And then later during the day I was moderated, banned from access to all sorts of areas, and I will come to that later.

When I came here I had total trust that this group was going to do a series of carefully planned mind excercises that would become ever more effective at recreating a balanced planet...
even to the point of preventing quakes in stress zones.
For nearly 30 years I have lived in hurricane prone areas and then in earth quake zones, and when an earthquake strikes it is so frightening that I have literally whet myself. Preparing a house in the chaos of an approaching hurricane is also not something I ever want to do again.
So I was making friends, being light, not flippant, and gradually getting to know people. Have only been here for one week.
I took to W4C immediately and we exchanged PMs.
Then suddenly I noticed that she became very nervous, and I believe it happened after moderators started interfering with her posts.
The last thing I read was that she was overtired, and that she thought the moderators were going above Bill's head and that he was in danger, somehow. that ther was a mutiny to take over Project Avalon.
And I could swear, that she asked us to do deliberate wild things to the thread-- ON PURPOSE --so as to push the moderators to take full action, and expose themselves. So I obliged her, posted jokes, etc. all to save Bill from a take-over.
This is what I was doing today, and it had a frightening result.
When I saw a window pop up that said Access denied, and then when will it become reopened the word was NEVER, my heart missed several beats.
So then I hurried to send a PM to a friend, to tell her and ask her for her email, and the same thing happened. Access denied.
It felt scary, as if I was in some Kafkaesque novel. Then I calmed down, took deep breaths, and gradually found a way of communicating with the moderator, I even told him he was going to be in trouble with Bill for what he had done. Perhaps this young man had no idea what effect these moderation methods can have on someone who is bubbly and happy and excited. I wouldn't be surprised if someone might have a heart attack as a result of this kind of a shock.
Reestablishing my trust after what happened today is going to be no easy feat.


What is going on???? I am so confused.

Can someone please help clarify things for me here?

My mind is weary from everything that Avalon has sustained this last week and this thread is inviting some serious paranoia into my reality.

help

Yes I would also like to know what is going on.

When I joined in November the forum was nothing like this at all. For one thing there was respect.
There was exchange of information and ideas. People listened to what others were saying. Even if they didn't agree with what some would say they were still listened.

Now there seems to be nothing but mudslinging, personal attacks and ego bashing.
I've noticed from certain members they would build up ego's of some while under the same breath attack others.
I myself have been blatantly called crazy from someone just for writing a post about my personal experiences. This has got to stop!
I refuse to get involved in any mudslinging or clash of ego's, and I would advise everyone else to shun those people who do.

It's funny that with the names of Project Camelot and Avalon it seems to be turning into a Morte De Arthur.
The Round Table where one could sit with equal status to express ideas and concerns now has the dark influence of a Morgana and Mordred (I wonder who they could be).
We need a solution to save our King Arthur!

[ulli]

when you are moderated, you can't really tell when it's coming.
When it does, you get to see this pop-up

Date the ban will be lifted: Never
then you move to the next place where you want to connect with someone through PM, and you get this pop-up

Date the ban will be lifted: Never
This castle needs a coat of paint

[ThePythonicCow]

when you are moderated, you can't really tell when it's coming.
When it does, you get to see this pop-up
Yes, I can imagine that was unsettling. That was a misfire on our part. I'm grateful you're still here.

[ThePythonicCow]

In my view, it is important that moderator actions almost always be applied in a more graduated manner, and in a way that users can understand and adapt to. Sorry about that one.

[Bill Ryan]

---------

This thread has become Kafkaesque.

Jai thought she had some important 'hot' information to reveal (something to do with Richard and Celine claiming that they had incriminating emails between Kerry and myself). I have no more details, and I know for a fact that nothing Kerry and I have discussed is 'incriminating'.

Whether Richard and Celine do have any private correspondence of this nature will be interesting to know. It's possible all this is a misunderstanding, an exaggeration, or a deliberate smear by persons unknown.

Because of Jai's particular challenges in presenting detailed information, she requested that the airspace be kept clear while she worked methodically and carefully to share what she had. It took her a long time and she requested support in the form of minimal distraction.

During that time Luke closed the thread - specifically to keep the thread clear. The intention was that it would be re-opened again as soon Jai was ready.

The timing was unfortunate. Jai had been meticulously crafting a detailed presentation in the REPLY box - and then by the time she went to post it, the thread was closed. She lost everything, and was understandably very upset.

Jai got the idea that somehow the thread had been closed by a rogue moderator (it had not). According to Ulli, she encouraged members to misbehave in order to draw out the 'rogue mods' in full view of myself. Ulli started pushing the envelope - and ended up under moderation. No surprise there. Ulli should not be astonished that this happened! (It was a dumb thing to do.)

We are all still waiting for Jai to present what she says she has, which she says is some kind of complex exposé of Richard, Celine and others.

This is all I know. I suggest that





We keep the thread open.
Members do not post here unless you are Jai. Filling up threads with repeated cries of What's going on? is not helpful, constructive, or a good use of anyone's time either reading or writing it.
We go elsewhere for a while. There is much on Avalon that is more interesting that this right now. You will see on the TODAY'S POSTS update when Jai posts her revelation.
We look at the evidence presented when it is presented.

So... move along folks. Nothing is here yet.

All best wishes, Bill


********


Edit to add:




Statement from Celine, relayed by Ross:


WE do not have now..or never had..ANY information on Kerry and Bill communications, incriminating or otherwise.

Thank you.

Richard and Celine

[NxTLvL34]

So ok....

apparently I'm not being "helpful" or "constructive" by my post stating my confusion.

I was just looking for some clarity after seeing a post with words like "danger", "frightening" and "mutiny". Those words are unnerving.

I certainly don't want to waste anyone's time.

I will go elsewhere as requested.

Thank you for clarifying Bill.

[Isostool]

Wot are you reading Mr Shakespeare?

Just words, words, words


I get the impression that Iso is an action lady if she's given the opportunity.




http://rlv.zcache.com/cute_cartoon_rabbit_greeting_and_note_card-p137495491188020653vrnj_500.jpg


Who has stopped her ? ;)

Maria - considering the appaling state of this planet and the fact that I am not in the third person - I find this comment... in bad taste and quite disrespectful.

In regards to the subject matter - service and committment to the relief of suffering on this planet, and the IMMESURABLE depth of this suffering itself - .... I find your making light of it, unenlightening. And really sad.

Words are not JUST WORDS. well they aren't if you actually sit and think about them before you post them, Maria and Jorr [they are two love birds just so the viewer knows why I refer to them in tandem].

[Lord Sidious]

Iso, I don't believe they meant you any disrespect.
And as for the carrots, blame me, I started that trend.

[Icecold]

Lord of Carrots,

aaahhhh......it's not about your favourite root vegetable. My friend is a sensitive lady sometimes and on the matter of the state of crap in the world she's deadly serious....and appreciates being taken seriously on that matter.

Maria :hug:

Isostool :hug:

[Isostool]

Knowing when to joke and when not to joke. An imperfect art. But one to consider carefully.

And yeah Ice, thanks. I do take it deadly seriously. It's [they're] too important not to be.

[Icecold]

Yes, its a real skill to get it right. I screw up all the time. :o


Where was I ????

I'm just going out to check the perimeter for UFOs....be back soon.....

http://wwwdelivery.superstock.com/WI/223/1538/PreviewComp/SuperStock_1538R-51331.jpg


Meanwhile in the maintenance hangar......

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2749/4358554182_ed08b297b2.jpg



UFO Ground base spotted.....send in the bunker busters!!!!!!!

http://www.danatkins.com/pix/B-52_carrot_bomber_thumb.jpg


Sir we've got to send in some ground troops...were using our new RPCs....

http://www.danatkins.com/pix/carrot_rocket_thumb.gif

[Lord Sidious]

Lord of Carrots,

aaahhhh......it's not about your favourite root vegetable. My friend is a sensitive lady sometimes and on the matter of the state of crap in the world she's deadly serious....and appreciates being taken seriously on that matter.

Maria :hug:

Isostool :hug:

Bill pointed out to me and he was quite right, that the time for my tactic of disarming the negativity has passed.
I used that to get you all to laugh with each other and stop the fighting.
That has passed and the tactic is now redundant.
And as Bill also pointed out, there are serious topics that are being overlooked because I was still carrotting everything.
So, carrots are now suspended till the next time we need them.
Just to clarify one thing for some of you, Bill wasn't criticising me, more pointing out something I had overlooked in a helper type way.
No bad feelings on his or my sides and so there shouldn't be for anyone else.

[Icecold]

Lord of Carrots,

aaahhhh......it's not about your favourite root vegetable. My friend is a sensitive lady sometimes and on the matter of the state of crap in the world she's deadly serious....and appreciates being taken seriously on that matter.

Maria :hug:

Isostool :hug:

Bill pointed out to me and he was quite right, that the time for my tactic of disarming the negativity has passed.
I used that to get you all to laugh with each other and stop the fighting.
That has passed and the tactic is now redundant.
And as Bill also pointed out, there are serious topics that are being overlooked because I was still carrotting everything.
So, carrots are now suspended till the next time we need them.
Just to clarify one thing for some of you, Bill wasn't criticising me, more pointing out something I had overlooked in a helper type way.
No bad feelings on his or my sides and so there shouldn't be for anyone else.


Ok, well if I was psychic or read every post on the forum, I might have noticed.

Like I said in my last post.............

Yes, its a real skill to get it right. I screw up all the time. :sorry:

My only excuse this time is that I'm straddling!


Back to topic....Telling it like it is......

No comment.




http://books.google.com.au/books?id=hcP-dPpy2X4C&lpg=PA1&ots=5OwYeZqZoa&dq=telling%20it%20like%20it%20is&pg=PA1#v=onepage&q&f=false

[Maria Stade]

Wot are you reading Mr Shakespeare?

Just words, words, words


I get the impression that Iso is an action lady if she's given the opportunity.




http://rlv.zcache.com/cute_cartoon_rabbit_greeting_and_note_card-p137495491188020653vrnj_500.jpg


Who has stopped her ? ;)

Maria - considering the appaling state of this planet and the fact that I am not in the third person - I find this comment... in bad taste and quite disrespectful.

In regards to the subject matter - service and committment to the relief of suffering on this planet, and the IMMESURABLE depth of this suffering itself - .... I find your making light of it, unenlightening. And really sad.

Words are not JUST WORDS. well they aren't if you actually sit and think about them before you post them, Maria and Jorr [they are two love birds just so the viewer knows why I refer to them in tandem].

Thank you !

It was not ment to be in any way disrespectfull !

As I see it you stept in to your light.

With you full right .

A carrot is my support for that something good has happened.

Keep doing that dear sister beacuse that is what we must do !

I loved your writing !

And YOU give YOU the right in the grandness of your spirit !

I am not Jorr and I do not see all things as he do.

I love him dearly and respect him as the One of all that he is.

I am as all here, in the right to shine my OWN light on things, and NO ONE has the right to stab me for that !

I speak for me.

NO ONE can stop me, and NO ONE has the right to deny anyone the right or the power to express one self !

In the center we are one and do NOT leave that space !

:angel: Spread your angle wings dear sister

Im asking Jorr to explani him self !

:luv:

By the way I did support Icecold giving you a carrot.

All Love

Maria

[Maria Stade]

I asked a question Who has stop her !

WE DO THAT OUR SELF. TO OUR SELF.

Why ?? One can ask !

Its in the programing we have gone true. We must get out of the programing !

That is take back Our power and stand our ground.

Start with self !

[jorr lundstrom]

Dear Isotool. Having seen your reaction I conclude your words were just words. If my own words dont

resonate with my actions I consider them empty. And yes I am one of a pair of lovebirds, have been for

many years and plan to continue for many years still. Its no secret, so it was nice of you to inform the

other on PA, in case anyone didnt know. But we are still two individuals, each of us expressing our own

point of view. If you cant handle that I dont know wot you can do about it. And I suppose we are all con-

cerned over the enormous suffering in the world today. I suppose you had a little high pressure and hope

you got it released. And if you get a new need for a scapgoat to release something against just send me a

PM and I will see if I can be of any help. We can always figure something out together. Love and carrots

[Lord Sidious]

Lord of Carrots,

aaahhhh......it's not about your favourite root vegetable. My friend is a sensitive lady sometimes and on the matter of the state of crap in the world she's deadly serious....and appreciates being taken seriously on that matter.

Maria :hug:

Isostool :hug:

Bill pointed out to me and he was quite right, that the time for my tactic of disarming the negativity has passed.
I used that to get you all to laugh with each other and stop the fighting.
That has passed and the tactic is now redundant.
And as Bill also pointed out, there are serious topics that are being overlooked because I was still carrotting everything.
So, carrots are now suspended till the next time we need them.
Just to clarify one thing for some of you, Bill wasn't criticising me, more pointing out something I had overlooked in a helper type way.
No bad feelings on his or my sides and so there shouldn't be for anyone else.


Ok, well if I was psychic or read every post on the forum, I might have noticed.

Like I said in my last post.............

Yes, its a real skill to get it right. I screw up all the time. :sorry:

My only excuse this time is that I'm straddling!


Back to topic....Telling it like it is......

No comment.




http://books.google.com.au/books?id=hcP-dPpy2X4C&lpg=PA1&ots=5OwYeZqZoa&dq=telling%20it%20like%20it%20is&pg=PA1#v=onepage&q&f=false

My comment wasn't aimed at you, ya nugget, I was saying for all readers, what the deal was.
I know I quoted you though.

[Maria Stade]

I may have missinterpreted, if I did I apologize.

I generally lean toward being over-protective regarding those I care about.

Dear Dennis !

I feel I must say this to open up to higher awareness of our programing !

You think You are doing something good by protecting Isotool ! But in fact you are doing great harm to men and woman by doing this.

I hope your higher self can understand this that I am to write Now. And this is to all others doing the same thing as You.

By going in and defensing her You tell others that she is WEAK and need to be protected.

You are doing the most bad thing by telling HER that she is WEAK !

She is not she is a powerful being.

Men suppressing females with this behavior.

By doing this she and others will stay weak.

Your intention is good but it is a PROGRAMMING.

And It serves NO ONE.

Dennis The beautiful thing is, that You try to protect the female in You.

This Is maybe the MOST IMPORTANT LINES that I have written so far on this forum.

I ask You all to understand this !

To Isotool and other women out there You have to understand that by playing the WEAK woman and supporting this game you are not healing the world and you are keeping the old programing in place.

We are all born equal.

May the heart of the reader understand this lines.

Make way for the divine female to grow.

All Love

Namaste

[grannyfranny100]

So where is write4change? She still hasn't answered my post #151. Nor has she written whatever she planned to write and reveal in this thread. This thread seems to have changed into some pointless comic book.

[Steph]

I think I've had enough of these types of threads. I was patient given Jai's circumstances but I'm not seeing anything of real value. As usual it's all speculation and hearsay. I think we've all been through enough.

*Mouse picks up her toys and goes elsewhere*

[Sunshine]

Maria Strade...it sounds like you now are trying to protect women by criticizing Dennis' actions. You say Dennis thinks women are weak--do you really think Dennis thinks that way? Seriously! Are you then saying that women are weak because you come in protecting women? Listen to your own words. I think you mean the best... we all do on this forum (I hope)... but it appears to me like you are throwing stones. I just ask for reflection...for a little quiet...a little peace...we all mean well.

You did tell Dennis that he "is the most bad thing"! That's a terrible thing to say to someone, and I feel for Dennis....

[Sierra]

Ise is waiting for W4C to painfully and patiently recreate her post and post it.

Pressure can derail thought. Trolling uses that very principle right?

Silence can be good, when it comes to assisting people who have difficulty with a mode of communication.

Just a little assistance ... a little patience... a little silence ...

Joining Mouse for now :drag:

[WhiteStar]

In my view, it is important that moderator actions almost always be applied in a more graduated manner, and in a way that users can understand and adapt to. Sorry about that one.




Paul and i had a debate over this recently. where I suggested that annoying or offensive members should be immediately frozen as soon as sufficient attention has been brought to the mods notice.

This would allow time to look further into the problem, while members could continue without further harassment.



"The manner of a mods response should usually be more graduated and subtle than that."




Is that your opinion Paul or the 'general guidelines'?

I have witnessed these events before in Avalon and it nearly always reaches a climax and THE THREAD IS CLOSED

- A GREAT result for the attacker.

But a HUGE LOSS to the thread person who spent so much time building it and encouraging members to join together in a clean and fair debate.



You make a good observation on the harms caused by thread CLOSING.

My preference is to not close a thread if I can nurse it back to health.

Different mods will of course have different styles.

Those with keen eyes may notice a change in styles, over the next few weeks, as younger (to this site) mods take over for those who have left.

[Dennis Jonathan]

Maria, I think our language barrier has caused un due tension.

I was defending Jai, not Iso.

And not because she is a woman, but because she is brilliant.

[Maria Stade]

Maria Strade...it sounds like you now are trying to protect women by criticizing Dennis' actions. You say Dennis thinks women are weak--do you really think Dennis thinks that way? Seriously! Are you then saying that women are weak because you come in protecting women? Listen to your own words. I think you mean the best... we all do on this forum (I hope)... but it appears to me like you are throwing stones. I just ask for reflection...for a little quiet...a little peace...we all mean well.

You did tell Dennis that he "is the most bad thing"! That's a terrible thing to say to someone, and I feel for Dennis....

Protect woman !!! I am doing no such thing ! If you cant get IT then you cant !

Dennis is not the most bad thing I have corrected that !

Writing is no talent of mine Thank you for pointing out my misstake I am dyslektik and in focus of spelling well I missed a word !

Dennis is a wonderful man doing what he thinks is right but in the subconscious other things are happening.

No one grows by being told they are weak This is a fact and it works on men to but it is mostly on a global scale done to women.

I am sorry Dennis for I was missing a word I am not perfect as no one is, we are gifted in different ways.

The message is: Stop this behavior to other beings, it is serving nothing good.



Maria

[Lord Sidious]

Calm down nuggets, I can hear the carrots calling again.

[Maria Stade]

Maria, I think our language barrier has caused un due tension.

I was defending Jai, not Iso.

And not because she is a woman, but because she is brilliant.

I think there have been some kind of mixup as the thread has been moderated.

Im waiting for her writings to.

:hug:

[Maria Stade]

Calm down nuggets, I can hear the carrots calling again.

Ha ha yea we are calm !

Love and carrots dear Sid :wub:

[Intraphase]

I made a wrong decision that has now been reversed.

All the posts are back here. (If not please let me know!)

I apologize to those that got their posts moved and especially to Ulli because I have temporarily moderated her.

I hope no permanent damage has been done... :yield:

Hang in there.

I don't know if the software would support these proposals to create moderator breathing space but here's the bones.
Parallel threads that move in position together on the index with the original on top and the raucous dissent just below.
It would allow the moderator of the thread more time to assess whether there's a bit of smoke or a five alarm fire in progress.
Some post could be moved between the top line or bottom line threads if a correction was decide to be amended by a mod consulting more mods.
I have also been to forums where there is a flame war section at the very bottom of the page as the last category where damaged threads are moved and members are actively encouraged to proceed to shred every last bit of their credibility and reputation as reasonable human beings engaged in a life long process of human growth through learning.

[Bill Ryan]

--------

Dear Friends, dear write4change -

I am closing this thread again.

write4Change, when you have compiled something to post, please PM the mods and we will be most willing to enable this.

With my best wishes to all - Bill