Exploring the Split Consciousness and its Parallel to Rifts in Time

[James Horak]

Now this is ambitious...even to the point of presumption. However I have faith in people I have found here. And where this starting point may lead. I am at the service of well-intentioned questions. They earn their answers. JCH

[mrmalco]

Now this is ambitious...even to the point of presumption. However I have faith in people I have found here. And where this starting point may lead. I am at the service of well-intentioned questions. They earn their answers. JCH

You are in a forum of equals.
Welcome.

[Flyswim]

Thanks JH,

Could you explain what you mean by 'the split consciousness', please.

[James Horak]

Flyswim, a mind divided by conscious and sub-conscious, the former constantly in fear of the other, trying to suppress it's uncompromising recall and assertion of correcting the forward speech of dissembling and rationalizing to more perfect candor (at the expense of observing social "graces") in its own expressions of reverse speech. Rifting the two minds into an inharmonious struggle and denying broader participation of latent abilities that might otherwise express. JCH

[astrid]

Welcome James, i'm new to your work, so i'm busy catching up on some of your past interviews for an over view.
( I Just listened to Mel's, ( veritas) and now working through info on your site
And I must say that It's so excellent to have you here.


I'm assuming by split consciousness, u are referring to our sub-conscious and our conscious minds, and how there is a "veil" separating them.

So would you say that hypnosis is one of the ways they can be re connected???

Through them becoming more aware of one another??

And maybe also other techniques, like lucid dreaming??


p.s... ambitious is good!!

[Calz]

Now this is ambitious...even to the point of presumption. However I have faith in people I have found here. And where this starting point may lead. I am at the service of well-intentioned questions. They earn their answers. JCH

Thank you for being here James.

I have been trying to "catch up" with your already published material so that I won't ask something already documented.

Loved your Veritas interview, listened to your response to Charles and taking a look at the other things you have put out there as time permits.

Fascinating and thought provoking.

Cal

[Jayke]

Now this is ambitious...even to the point of presumption. However I have faith in people I have found here. And where this starting point may lead. I am at the service of well-intentioned questions. They earn their answers. JCH

Hey James, I'm curious...what's ambitious? How is conciousness related to rifts in time?

[James Horak]

Astrid and Catz..., I hope to reward all your efforts in research with some constructions sadly lacking among practitioners delving into consciousness studies and applications today.
First, hypnosis is not an option when discussing unified consciousness. It drives the minds further apart and creates an even more fearful aspect of the conscious mind to the sub-conscious.
It is a basic poorly devised approach both to recall and to exploration of the psyche and lends itself far too well to mind-limiting (mind control) as opposed to mind expansion. When discipline and integrity to purpose work best, it operates wholly at the opposite end of that spectrum. Lucid dreaming is very important and a "gift" when had. Another anomaly offering itself as a clue to the "next step up". JCH

[James Horak]

Jayke, a good question but I want to work there slowly and give everyone interested a chance to arrive there on their own. I would appreciate building more from the thread and in so doing, trying to avoid the centering back mechanisms usually employed by divided consciousness and that loses so much ground to what has been termed the, "normalcy bias". JCH

[Flyswim]

From your perspective, JH, what is deja vu?

[James Horak]

Very good question. I personally wish I had experienced it. But it's one of those phenomenon that appears unique to the divided mind. John Dunne writes about serial time in his book, The Serial Universe. I suspect that duality gives way sometimes at a point in time (a clue to the connection "parallel rifts in time"). Anything I can say on this further would be personal speculation and I'm hoping to learn about this type of wonder from those experiencing it. JCH

[Gardener]

Thankyou for focusing on this really important part of this whole work. Its my personal focus and 'passion' lol. Because of its singular importance it is probably a good idea to keep the thread strictly on topic, and with a sharp awareness for disruptive influences.

This is what they do NOT want us to work on.

[Mystique]

Thank you for starting this thread James. Is meditation an effective way to "lift the veil" by allowing a background of silence to reveal what has not yet become conscious?

[Calz]

Astrid and Catz..., I hope to reward all your efforts in research with some constructions sadly lacking among practitioners delving into consciousness studies and applications today.
First, hypnosis is not an option when discussing unified consciousness. It drives the minds further apart and creates an even more fearful aspect of the conscious mind to the sub-conscious.
It is a basic poorly devised approach both to recall and to exploration of the psyche and lends itself far too well to mind-limiting (mind control) as opposed to mind expansion. When discipline and integrity to purpose work best, it operates wholly at the opposite end of that spectrum. Lucid dreaming is very important and a "gift" when had. Another anomaly offering itself as a clue to the "next step up". JCH

I am eager to hear your (and other contributors') thoughts on this.

One of (if not *the*) most respected authors regarding hypnotic regression is Delores Cannon. I did not read her earlier works but plowed through most of the 3 book set "The Convoluted Universe". I was initially quite receptive to the "truths" that she shared from her patients regarding their past life experiences. Several years ago I began to question these "truths" and perhaps you can shed some light by taking a more discerning analysis of hypnosis itself.

Lucid dreaming is a fascinating topic as well.

[Lunar]

A beautifully written book by Julian Jaynes is essential reading for this topic in my humble opinion (as Avalonians say). It covers how the author believes consciousness is a by product of written language and metaphor - language being a rationalised way of communication and describing the world. It covers everything from hallucination, evolvution and dichotomy of the "god brain" and the "follower brain" i.e. conscious and subconscious, hypnosis, schizophrenia, historical texts how consciousness was 'somehow' different, oracles, music and poetry. It is controversial and you might not agree with everything the chap says but it definitely makes one think. Oh and the crucial bit it's called "The Breakdown of Consciousness in the Bicameral Mind".

[Jayke]

Jayke, a good question but I want to work there slowly and give everyone interested a chance to arrive there on their own. I would appreciate building more from the thread and in so doing, trying to avoid the centering back mechanisms usually employed by divided consciousness and that loses so much ground to what has been termed the, "normalcy bias". JCH

I'm not familiar with the term 'centering back mechanism' but taking it at face value wouldn't asking questions be a form of centering back, directing awareness to the centre of whatever it is being asked about? What's a normalcy bias?

[Gardener]

James wrote...First, hypnosis is not an option when discussing unified consciousness. It drives the minds further apart and creates an even more fearful aspect of the conscious mind to the sub-conscious.
It is a basic poorly devised approach both to recall and to exploration of the psyche and lends itself far too well to mind-limiting (mind control) as opposed to mind expansion. When discipline and integrity to purpose work best, it operates wholly at the opposite end of that spectrum.

I fully agree with this statement, there are no shortcuts via the suggestion route, furthering division which may mask the real with another layer. Though I have minimal expertise in this area to speak with any authority.

[angellight]

If I remember correctly, in the first volume of the Convoluted Universe series deja vu is described as crossing into a parallel timeline that is so similar to the one you currently embody that it comes into your awareness as deja vu. I hope I am conveying Delores Cannon's information correctly. It has been a while since I read her works.

Blessings, Angellight

[Gardener]

James, I am reasonably aware of reverse speach but have not delved into it in any real depth, the mechanism etc, does it have any real effect using the written word, for instance, if you reverse what I say here, could any meaning be extrapolated, or does it just occur when one tries to 'hide' something during ordinary speach?
ty
g

[Lunar]

Hi James, I'm new to your work also so forgive what might be a silly question - how are the parallel of rifts in time relevant to the split mind?

Also, can you explain why one mind is in fear of the other, please? Also, why do you think hypnosis polarises the two minds further? I find this very interesting and will, when I have time, read through your page.

[Jayke]

I fully agree with this statement, there are no shortcuts via the suggestion route, furthering division which may mask the real with another layer. Though I have minimal expertise in this area to speak with any authority.

Suggestion based hypnosis was sooo last century, it includes a much more jungian approach these days or so i've heard, all about exploring each persons unique inner metaphors to bring about change.

another term i'm unfamiliar with is 'rifts in time', do you have an example of rifts in time?
Is one mind really in fear of the other or does that just come about because people are always trying to kill the ego lol

[Gardener]

Forgive me for a slightly semantic question again, through my psych training I have understood three levels of consciousness apparently.
conscious (everyday awareness)
sub-conscious (that which was at one time conscious but is now relegated, but can be recalled with sufficient stimulus.)
Un-conscious at two levels, personal and collective. (leaving it at that for now)

Are you refering to the unconscious as per my definition, I am ok with calling it the sub conscious so we are all together with what we mean.

g

[Gardener]

Jayke...Suggestion based hypnosis was sooo last century, it includes a much more jungian approach these days or so i've heard, all about exploring each persons unique inner meataphors to bring about change.

I hear you Jayke, Sry I was simplyfying it there. My approach to this is primarily Jungian, there is no hypnosis in Jungian psychology, exploration, metaphore etc yes.

[ulli]

If I remember correctly, in the first volume of the Convoluted Universe series deja vu is described as crossing into a parallel timeline that is so similar to the one you currently embody that it comes into your awareness as deja vu. I hope I am conveying Delores Cannon's information correctly. It has been a while since I read her works.

Blessings, Angellight

This is how I see it, too. Time is the biggest mystery, to me anyway.

When I was younger I was content with the explanation that deja vu
was a misfunction inside brain cells, ...something being experienced in the NOW
suddenly slips into a cell that would store long distant memory perception.

Don't know enough about neurochemistry if that is an accurate statement,
and no longer care.
Far more interested in observing my own inner dialogue and emotional responses to events,
and see the connections between my consciousness and what happens on the screen of my life.
Hence a 'deja vu' event, when it happens, becomes a feast for thought.

Questions like WHY NOW?, or WHY THIS PARTICULAR EVENT?
reveal some interesting answers.

[Carmody]

Very good question. I personally wish I had experienced it. But it's one of those phenomenon that appears unique to the divided mind. John Dunne writes about serial time in his book, The Serial Universe. I suspect that duality gives way sometimes at a point in time (a clue to the connection "parallel rifts in time"). Anything I can say on this further would be personal speculation and I'm hoping to learn about this type of wonder from those experiencing it. JCH

precognition appears to be ----looking ahead at the given event.

Deja-vu, seems to be living the event.... and somehow 'recalling' the memory of the event --from the given past. Recalling the precognition, one might say.

I have lived through may episodes of each type.

[Mystique]

When I look at how I communicate, I see and hear that at one level a wisdom from within me will emerge and is able to synthesize information into a coherent form using metaphors and such that resonate with some deeper aspect of myself, and at other times I am operating more on a mundane, surface, caught in internal dialogue, referencing the past while projecting it into the future, way. How does that relate to split consciousness in the way you are describing it?

Is there a way to bring those two ways together - like two merging threads on the forum? Or do I need to let go of the surface structure? If so, how would that be done?

[James Horak]

A profusion of questions, some of which will answer themselves with close reading of the thread as it follows. I am not a fan of Delores Cannon, nor most any of the cottage industry around anomaly research, ufology and the therapists using hypnosis on abductees. Making money seems to always become paramount to their interests at some point. The protecting of their "draw" ability for the lucrative lecture circuit soon leads to the same corruptions of tptb. We called this co-option when I was in school. In listening to some of Ms. Cannon's interviews I'm left to often
wonder just where her priorities lie, to her clients or to material for her next of many books? Yes, Gardener, in RV, the subconscious is correcting the misrepresentations and dissembling of forward speech. The more the prevarication, the more ardently it does so. When the FBI dropped subsidy of Mr. David Oates they went underground with their own research since Oates hasn't the capacity nor the humility to consider findings outside his scope. The agency discovered an inter-dimensional aspect to the relationship of reverse speech to that of forward and a very slight off-set between the two from an absolute opposite reversal is why. Then the fun began for them. All the while Mr. Oates was left outside with his feet stuck...you guessed it, in a bucket of oats. Mr. "Oat Willie" David Oates. JCH

[Intraphase]

I think I achieved undivided consciousness but at the price of a brief(73day) intermittent bout with full on chaos at age twenty-five: currently 51 YOA.
I use a semantic model of: full mind - sub mind - full self. With full mind as unrestricted access to all my own quantum-space universe wide and full access to all space declared as public. I had to rebuild and return/retune my sub mind for that new selectivity as a set of memorized barrier systems. I use the term full self as a form of organized self dialogue generated by the constant low level fluctuations of the full mind that are amplified by sub mind that (slowly chosen set of search terms) forming my new sub mind barrier system.
I was in that state of fluid motion as a child and could feel total mind rebelling during any act or behavior that upset natural integration (Raising your point of moral center as preventive of chaotic dissolution. My understanding equals poor cause effect management across dual direction time flows). With time and age, growth process disharmony grew until a series of trigger events caused the purging of information and the reconstruction of a filter barrier system I know now as my sub mind. My semantics may differ in their coloring choices but I believe I understand the premise. The crux being unknown content circulating in the totality of ones consciousness may or may not aggregate and coalesce into a toxic uncrossable zone.

An old set of reverse speech examples when I was first exposed to the possible validity of the concept.
The exercise and experiment was deliberate with me just rambling in relaxed self (forward) dialogue to generate reverse dialogue content.

ATM Energy Body - "**** off me Art we wish you would show the westerners your animal"
http://home.comcast.net/~azroksteppe/Tape-1.wav

Travel Client - "How am I going to end up with Siddhartha, At Old Feats casino we are supposed to not refer with your/old map"
http://home.comcast.net/~azroksteppe/Tape-2.wav

An Equal Self - "Serve Unit - Fought Slush - Ship Serve You Rises - The Business Here"
http://home.comcast.net/~azroksteppe/Tape-3.wav

Transport - "He is on the ship the type of me opposite - The bowed son initiate - The God Mother Forgets - The Chauffeur is Nowhere"
http://home.comcast.net/~azroksteppe/Tape-4.wav


:mod::doh::tinfoil3::tinfoil3::tinfoil3::doh::mod:

[granny]

Very good question. I personally wish I had experienced it. But it's one of those phenomenon that appears unique to the divided mind. John Dunne writes about serial time in his book, The Serial Universe. I suspect that duality gives way sometimes at a point in time (a clue to the connection "parallel rifts in time"). Anything I can say on this further would be personal speculation and I'm hoping to learn about this type of wonder from those experiencing it. JCH

precognition appears to be ----looking ahead at the given event.

Deja-vu, seems to be living the event.... and somehow 'recalling' the memory of the event --from the given past. Recalling the precognition, one might say.

I have lived through may episodes of each type.

Hmmm ... if there is no time, then I suppose it is possible to have a memory of something you perceive as not happened yet.
Did that make sense .... ouroborus?

[Calz]

A profusion of questions, some of which will answer themselves with close reading of the thread as it follows. I am not a fan of Delores Cannon, nor most any of the cottage industry around anomaly research, ufology and the therapists using hypnosis on abductees. Making money seems to always become paramount to their interests at some point. The protecting of their "draw" ability for the lucrative lecture circuit soon leads to the same corruptions of tptb. We called this co-option when I was in school. In listening to some of Ms. Cannon's interviews I'm left to often
wonder just where her priorities lie, to her clients or to material for her next of many books? JCH

While not (yet) ready to throw the baby out with the bathwater ... I did pick up a similar feeling when reading Cannon's material.

There was a passage where she made a comment (paraphrasing) with a new client how at the start of the session she thought this was going to be another "boring mudane" past life and not contain anything interesting for her book. (my words not hers).

Of course that begs one to wonder about "leading" clients through a session?

Have not heard of Oates.

[nearing]

Welcome James, i'm new to your work, so i'm busy catching up on some of your past interviews for an over view.
( I Just listened to Mel's, ( veritas) and now working through info on your site
And I must say that It's so excellent to have you here.


I'm assuming by split consciousness, u are referring to our sub-conscious and our conscious minds, and how there is a "veil" separating them.

So would you say that hypnosis is one of the ways they can be re connected???

Through them becoming more aware of one another??

And maybe also other techniques, like lucid dreaming??


p.s... ambitious is good!!

Can someone point me in the direction of his work/site?

[Intraphase]

A profusion of questions, some of which will answer themselves with close reading of the thread as it follows. I am not a fan of Delores Cannon, nor most any of the cottage industry around anomaly research, ufology and the therapists using hypnosis on abductees. Making money seems to always become paramount to their interests at some point. The protecting of their "draw" ability for the lucrative lecture circuit soon leads to the same corruptions of tptb. We called this co-option when I was in school. In listening to some of Ms. Cannon's interviews I'm left to often
wonder just where her priorities lie, to her clients or to material for her next of many books? Yes, Gardener, in RV, the subconscious is correcting the misrepresentations and dissembling of forward speech. The more the prevarication, the more ardently it does so. When the FBI dropped subsidy of Mr. David Oates they went underground with their own research since Oates hasn't the capacity nor the humility to consider findings outside his scope. The agency discovered an inter-dimensional aspect to the relationship of reverse speech to that of forward and a very slight off-set between the two from an absolute opposite reversal is why. Then the fun began for them. All the while Mr. Oates was left outside with his feet stuck...you guessed it, in a bucket of oats. Mr. "Oat Willie" David Oates. JCH

A side riff towards some relevant and irreverent humor:

Aside: The U.S.A. can get any level of service they are capable of handling for 10 billion dollars and full disclosure. It is: "A-Game" ie; the "A" line game.
It seem the person in charge is a business orientated personality who refuse to take 100% legal responsibility for expanding this particular ant farm.
On the other hand many different size planets have been spotted in the "Goldilocks" zone which could be accessed by metallic craft with ionic drives inside thick stone shells. Where there's a will there's a way.

Side Riff:

["I Dig A Pygmy" by Charles Hawtrey and the Deaf Aids.
Phase one, in which Doris gets her oats.]

Two of us riding nowhere
Spending someone's
Hard earned pay
You and me Sunday driving
Not arriving
On our way back home
We're on our way home
We're on our way home
We're going home

Two of us sending postcards
Writing letters
On my wall
You and me burning matches
Lifting latches
On our way back home
We're on our way home
We're on our way home
We're going home

You and I have memories
Longer than the road that stretches out ahead

Two of us wearing raincoats
Standing so low
In the sun
You and me chasing paper
Getting nowhere
On our way back home
We're on our way home
We're on our way home
We're going home

You and I have memories
Longer than the road that stretches out ahead

Two of us wearing raincoats
Standing so low
In the sun
You and me chasing paper
Getting nowhere
On our way back home
We're on our way home
We're on our way home
We're going home

[We're going home,
you better believe it.
Goodbye.]

:nod::nod::bathbaby::nod::nod:

[aikisaw]

We are talking about a split in consciousness causing a split in time. With the separated consciousness moving in different directions/paths causing the rifts in the time-lines to
A. never reconcile due to different intent of the split consciousness

B both time-lines are weakened due to loss of unified intent of a single conscious.

I am new to all of this. Just my initial thoughts on how this might work.

Thank you James for sharing your thoughts and time with beginners .

Is your writing style a form of reverse speech? I have to read your posts 3-4 times to fully understand them. Is this part of my split conscious that I only see part of it and have to go back and reread it?

[DevilPigeon]

Flyswim, a mind divided by conscious and sub-conscious, the former constantly in fear of the other, trying to suppress it's uncompromising recall and assertion of correcting the forward speech of dissembling and rationalizing to more perfect candor (at the expense of observing social "graces") in its own expressions of reverse speech. Rifting the two minds into an inharmonious struggle and denying broader participation of latent abilities that might otherwise express. JCH

hi james, and welcome.

forgive me, i don't have any expertise in this field, so what i am about to say may sound simple and/or naive, but i am always receptive to new arenas of "the inner self" & this area in particular fills me with a great deal of enthusiasm.

the conflict between conscious & sub-conscious, is that regarded to be based on a whole-brain understanding, or could it be said that each part of consciousness lies within its own distinct hemisphere of the brain? if so, i'm guessing that the sub-conscious would be classed as a "right brain" function. i must admit that i myself, i could be classed - on balance - as a left-brainer (not that i'm particularly happy about that, as i'm fascinated by the realms of reality that popular science readily dismisses)... i'm too logical sometimes, my "expertise" seems to be geared around spreadsheets/databases & the like, and despite having (and ultimately getting rid of) 6 guitars over the years, i can at best play 3 chords successfully - so i'm not creatively (at least musically) gifted...!

could it also be said that the conscious mind is in essence the "ego"? maybe if this is the case, then bringing the 2 consciousnesses into a better sense of harmony would simply involve - for the want of a better analogy - "pulling the ego's pants down from behind in a crowded room", ie bring it down a peg or two, show it that it's really not all powerful, despite what it may think of itself. how would one realistically go about that - deny the ego it's power? i'm aware that the ego has it's place, eg in a "fight or flight" situation, but that over "time" it's got an inflated sense of self.

all the best
dave

[TraineeHuman]

This topic is the one that I consider is by far the most central and important one in spirituality, if not in life as well. I believe Jung certainly thought so too. Jung devoted three full years to studying as many different religions and spiritual traditions as he could from around the world. He concluded that nearly all of them had an “esoteric” or advanced teaching that was shared only with the most spiritually evolved, and then a public (“exoteric”) teaching. Jung concluded that a very big part of the esoteric teaching was always what I like to call embracing your dark side. This doesn’t mean being rude or nasty or inconsiderate to people, of course.

Talking about healing the rift between the conscious and the sub-conscious mind is another way to describe the exact same topic. A very neat way, too. It isn’t hard to understand what this means in theory. But I have found it takes much longer to understand it in practice, without fooling yourself.

That’s one of the big questions here, I believe. How do we explain what it really means to make this practical? How do we get a person to look at all the dark cracks and edges in their psyche where all the things they don't want to admit or face about themselves are lurking? And how do we explain to them that they can still like and accept their full selves anyway? How do we persuade Beauty to kiss the Beast?

[James Horak]

Yes, I would be delighted if Jung were with us now. DevilPigeon and TrianeeHuman, my pleasure. The only reason duality/split consciousness is sublimated is because it has been an irrevocable feature of earth-bound humanity. However, the ambivalence it breeds allows war, famine and disease all to easily. When international bankers found it an easy tool by which to leverage world leaders into war, financing those wars and accumulating massive control through massive debt, and that each new generation would have to learn over and over again the wisdom to balance budgets and back their currency...it then became public education that became a new arena for manipulation. Until such nation defeating agendas as NAFTA and GATT could win approval. Look around you at the results.
The important lessons to learn are these. Do not attache the purely political, the purely economic, the purely military to spiritual reference. NONE of these exist in spiritual societies. So Stop
trying to apply that wand to them. It's like a sixties hippie waving a flower in the face of a national guardsman at Kent State. That is WOO WOO. Real spirituality has its own reality and that
reality can't apply to any garbage dump. It is a leap upward, but not with the anvil of social engineering attached. That's why we CLEANSE ourselves to approach it. Cleanse ourselves best by ending the rule of monsters. JCH

[str8thinker]

(Post #1) Now this is ambitious...even to the point of presumption. However I have faith in people I have found here. And where this starting point may lead. I am at the service of well-intentioned questions. They earn their answers. JCH

I'm sorry to have to say this James, but this is NOT the way to begin a forum thread. You bet this is presumptuous, even arrogant, particularly the "They earn their answers" bit. I don't particularly care whether I earn an answer from you.

What I find irritating is that you have put nothing in your first post that defines the substance of your title, then you humbly place yourself "at the service" of respondees while dispensing wisdom from your throne. You can't have it both ways.


(Post #4) Flyswim, a mind divided by conscious and sub-conscious, the former constantly in fear of the other, trying to suppress it's uncompromising recall and assertion of correcting the forward speech of dissembling and rationalizing to more perfect candor (at the expense of observing social "graces") in its own expressions of reverse speech. Rifting the two minds into an inharmonious struggle and denying broader participation of latent abilities that might otherwise express. JCH

I'm not afraid to state that I find this impenetrable verbiage confusing and without any attempt at justification, like most of your remaining replies. They really represent nothing more than your subjective opinion in these matters, and you should make this clear to everyone instead of presenting these views as fact - your fact. Inserting "in my opinion only" would be a great start. Oh, and it would be nice to see a verb in the last sentence.


(Post #9) Jayke, a good question but I want to work there slowly and give everyone interested a chance to arrive there on their own.

Does this imply that you secretly know which direction you want this thread to take, so you're going to reply selectively until our conclusions match yours? I consider this very undemocratic.

We don't need another 'Charles' right now.

You can call this an ad hominem argument if you like.

Under most circumstances I would simply ignore such a thread. However, in this case I feel compelled to respond to it, as is my right as a Project Avalon member, in the hope that other members don't adopt the same self-indulgent approach.

[Nanoo Nanoo]

What a wonderful question and subject matter :)

My personal thoughts

A connection via a confident belief in faith between the two, conscious and sub conscious. The faith comes from the confidence of conviction.

The hard part to grasp of this, is the belief is unique to the one and those who subscribe to it.
In a unified field of conciousness then the power of a belief increases directly proportional to the collective behind it.

The confusion of doubt between conscious and sub conscious is brought about by red herrings being thrown into the mix , further amplified by eons of past life information flowing around through time, there are greatly un answered questions by the past consciousness. Ultimately we are ever seeking a higher truth to follow. We are sub consciously servants battling with a consciousness that wants to be free of being a servant.

By design and lack of education we are in a conundrum where the answer is not out there, but it is inside. therein is the bravery of link between the two sides. The leap of faith.

Once we understand we are everything and nothing all at the same time, we are ready to begin the journey of linking the two.

N

[Mystique]

"It is a leap upward, but not with the anvil of social engineering attached. That's why we CLEANSE ourselves to approach it. Cleanse ourselves best by ending the rule of monsters." JCH

So, how, specifically, to we "leap upward"? In what way, exactly, do we "cleanse ourselves"?

I hear the concepts and sense something about them, but the application - the "how to" - I am not sure about.

For example: I can step back, especially in meditation, and listen to my internal dialogue and return to silence.

Fine for when I am meditating, but when I am going about my day I am back into internal dialogue.

I can mindfully go about my day and drop back into silence - when I catch myself, but how do I "leap upward" as I am washing the dishes?

How do I "cleanse myself" of all my socially programmed ideas about debt slavery while I looking at a stack of bills on my table - knowing my water and utilities will get shut off if I don't write those checks?


Now that I think about it, I think I have certain beliefs that my Higher Self can handle the "Spiritual stuff," but I have doubts that It knows how to operate in the world - like I doubt in its' abilities to drive a car, pay bills, do the household chores, or get a job.

Does the leap upward involve challenging belief structures? Do we replace our socially controlled belief structures with new ones that are Spirit based? If so, what core beliefs would give me the lift up?


Also, how do I, as an individual, "end the rule of monsters"?

Most New Age teachings say that there are no monsters "out there" because we cannot perceive an "out there" outside the perceptions we perceive them with. But there are guys, right now, sitting at a board room table with charts, and graphs, plotting my death or enslavement - whether I perceive them or not.

Do I start in here? Or out there?

I know I ask a lot of questions, but I have an inquiring mind and I want to know.

[TraineeHuman]

As I understand it, the way we cleanse ourselves at an individual level is to honestly identify and then face our dark side, our demons. The very act of facing them fully is precisely what removes them.

Similarly, I believe the only way for our society to cleanse itself is to call a spade a spade regarding itself. Full disclosure of all the corruption and all the manipulation and inequality and repression. Disclosure is the only way.

As I see it, the hippie holding up the flower makes the mistake of wearing rose-coloured glasses. The hippie is trying to be “nice”, and “loving”, but that’s not seeing reality as it is.

[astrid]

Personally my path was first to remove myself from the system as much as i could and step back and take a good look at what was really going on...
I disconnected from everyone for at least 2 years, and lived very simply during that time, no tv, no media, minor contact from people.

Then i went right back to my childhood and " unpacked " a lot of beliefs that i still held which were not my own, and that i didn't agree with.

For me the religious programming was a big one, my father is /was a church leader, so we had little choice on a lot of what we believed as children.
I was still carrying a lot of things into adulthood that where really causing me alot of issues. Namely guilt and shame.
I found a few tools to release a lot of the emotional trauma,
i had layers of it, that was clouding my judgment and causing me to project a lot of my past onto the present and future.
And even though i had been a victim of abuse(s) i was able to forgive and see the learning in all things, that helped me move on.

Thankfully i have dumped a lot of that now, i'm still a work in progress, as i guess are we all, but i'm closer now to calling my mind my own.

I must admit i have always been totally fascinated with the brain/mind topic, and having ADHD and Aspergers, im always interested in exploring issues around how to over come brain limitations.
( i know that's a little off topic, but also possibly related too)
I'm currently having biofeedback which i'm finding VERY helpful to re-balance brain waves, certainly it beats being on any sort of medication to function.

I also use some shamanic tools to access altered states, non drug, drumming and music mostly, that seems to have opened up a few pathways for me.
I guess having that ADD , day-dreamy brain anyway, trance work was natural pathway for me.
Now that i think about it, most of my school life i was in a day dream looking out the window.
Maybe we knew on one level that what we were being taught was total garbage.

I'm interested to find out more, about how our subconscious often steps in to drive the bus,
i see this more and more , especially since i have stopped setting goals, planning things, and just living more of a guided,
"going with the flow" type life. Everything just seems to fall into place.
No fear is the big key to this i have found also, the minute i feel fear everything goes to ****.
So dealing with emotional triggers was pretty crucial,
clearing out all the junk from my field was for sure a big step in the right direction for me.

wow... sorry about the long post.

[Mystique]

Ok, I just watched Dogville and I get it. The way to cleanse ourselves and make the leap upwards is through our moral core and allowing our morals and principles to shine brightly into everything we think and everything we do.

That is what is attracting us to Avalon. Bill created this forum as a platform that is based on his moral values: helping the underdog, telling truth to power, freedom of expression, transparency, open communication, vision of a better life, honesty, respect, caring about one another, loyalty, appreciating our diversity and unifying through our core principles.

King Arthur's court was held together by their principles and the oath those who sat at the roundtable took to uphold them.

As our moral values shine their light on those dark places in our subconscious, we see through our weaknesses into the strength that is hidden beneath - our unrealized potential to grow and be better than we thought we could be.

That shining gives us a lift out of the darkness into the light of awareness and possibility.

Thank you, James, for recommending that movie. It made this all clearer to me.

Like you said earlier, a moral core is what makes us different than those who try to eliminate us or enslave us. To do anything less makes us just like them and adds nothing to humanity or the planet.

Paradoxically, it is by seeing clearly their darkness that makes our light shine even brighter - so balance is restored.

I think I need to take some time to reflect deeply on this. It has touched me deeply.

[TraineeHuman]

It seems to be necessary to cleanse yourself of some of your heavier personal junk before you really get in touch with that "moral core" that's underneath. I'm sure that wonderful core is there inside all of us, but it seems to be necessary to go through a huge inner journey much like Astrid has described. That journey involves re-interpreting everything from your childhood and how it affected you. In my own experience, it also involves remembering everything from your childhood, in broad terms. I don't know anybody who hasn't needed to do that. It's quite fascinating, because each time you peel off a layer what you see about who you are and were looks very different from how you saw it up till then. For instance, six years ago it dawned on me that my stepfather had been a paranoid schizophrenic. Up till then I had assumed he was fairly sane (for lack of a better word), even though I had a degree in psychology. But getting the insight about what he actually was triggered whole chains of new insights and new interpretations covering many years of my life, as I saw how many things he did were motivated by paranoid agendas that weren't based on reality, or they were based on exaggerated versions of reality. The more fully a person uncovers that inner core, the happier they seem to get, in my experience.

[astrid]

It seems to be necessary to cleanse yourself of some of your heavier personal junk before you really get in touch with that "moral core" that's underneath. I'm sure that wonderful core is there inside all of us, but it seems to be necessary to go through a huge inner journey much like Astrid has described. That journey involves re-interpreting everything from your childhood and how it affected you. In my own experience, it also involves remembering everything from your childhood, in broad terms. I don't know anybody who hasn't needed to do that. It's quite fascinating, because each time you peel off a layer what you see about who you are and were looks very different from how you saw it up till then. For instance, six years ago it dawned on me that my stepfather had been a paranoid schizophrenic. Up till then I had assumed he was fairly sane (for lack of a better word), even though I had a degree in psychology. But getting the insight about what he actually was triggered whole chains of new insights and new interpretations covering many years of my life, as I saw how many things he did were motivated by paranoid agendas that weren't based on reality, or they were based on exaggerated versions of reality. The more fully a person uncovers that inner core, the happier they seem to get, in my experience.

I had similar experience with my parents also, only fairly recently i realized my mother is Autistic, and my father has an anxiety disorder.
It changed so much, and bought on a whole new layer of grief to work though, rather than being stuck in resentment and anger at all that i went through as a child,
i shifted into a greater depth of understanding of what really went on.
It's as though u have to go back and view your childhood through adult eyes to really make sense of it.
Identifying patterns also is a big one, as they often go generation after generation.

I was fairly determined to let the buck stop with me, and i believe i have been doing alot of "ancestoral cleaning up",
which interestingly enough is another shamanic concept, whereby u can clean up your family linages of stuck patterns,
illnesses and cycles, its quite fascinating.

I don't want to take up the thread,
But i'm really glad u are here James,
it's a blessing and a breath of fresh air to say the least!!

[James Horak]

The concept historically of ritual cleansing with which I took poetic license was not intended to be taken quite so literally but more in an euphemistic sense. I was discerning between the need to recognize what we need to rid ourselves of in order to advance, not an arcane process of "purification". It's obvious that if fraudulent debt accumulation, social engineers and corrupt legislators, judges and bureaucrats were removed (ridded) we, as both collective and individual, would better prosper. Awareness and PRECISE determination of treason are good beginnings on the road to our ridding ourselves of these problems. Once blinders are removed social engineers cannot depend any longer on our ignorance of precise causes to further their instrumentations of these corruptions into any fascist feudal takeover and return to absolutism; we have removed their self-deceiving elitist myth making machinery. EXACTLY as you see it being implemented here on Avalon, where an experiment of its own is taking place and where the confusion may be part of convincing some "audience" that we all deserve what the NWO has in store for us...at least in some convoluted and entrained way of thinking. JCH

[Mystique]

But if we "rid" the planet of those that are seeking to destroy it, are we not like the main character in Dogville who kills the town?

If we do the cleansing of deeper reflection on our childhoods, work through the shadows of the lies and deceptions we were taught, find our innocence under it all, dust it off, and let it shine; and if many of us are doing that together in unity, wouldn't the light within us and with each other be so bright those that who "can't handle the truth" would crawl away, in their underground nests, on their own?

If we shine the light of truth on them, and everything around us, bright enough wouldn't it be a matter of them choosing to destroy themselves or come to the light?

We do not choose for them, they choose for themselves. Is it not all about choice?

If after we have reclaimed our innocence and hold ourselves, our parents, and the controllers blameless, and everything they are doing - while beaming from our own innocent moral core - then it seems to me that we wouldn't have to take action against them, other than to stand in our own light.

Let Light be the truth and the sword.

It seems to me that our intention and where we beam it makes all the difference here.

[lightblue]

.
there's only ONE consciousness (no splits).... :) l



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zY9tiMXjIhk

.:cool:

[James Horak]

Obviously we have to get passed words alone, reading CLOSELY. SEEING closely. INTERPRETING closely. Dogville, for instance. Read what I review in my references of it as I urge others to see it and what benefit to the discussion I make of it. Otherwise you fall into the trap of the hit artists and CRASSLY OVERSIMPLIFY. For the benefit of flower children, let me say, the world is nearing a breaking point. We have a DUAL consciousness. ANY informed practitioner acknowledges, in the conscious Versus sub-conscious minds. Or is that to be found in your "garden"? Sublimating duality yields ambivalence. It is what lies between social problems and their remedy. While humming some vibrational chord and smoking dope among the pansies gets nothing done but stupor...the kind that leads one to feel justified in blurting out fluff. JCH

[lightblue]

Default Re: Exploring the Split Consciousness and its Parallel to Rifts in Time

Obviously we have to get passed words alone, reading CLOSELY. SEEING closely. INTERPRETING closely. Dogville, for instance. Read what I review in my references of it as I urge others to see it and what benefit to the discussion I make of it. Otherwise you fall into the trap of the hit artists and CRASSLY OVERSIMPLIFY. For the benefit of flower children, let me say, the world is nearing a breaking point. We have a DUAL consciousness. ANY informed practitioner acknowledges, in the conscious Versus sub-conscious minds. Or is that to be found in your "garden"? Sublimating duality yields ambivalence. It is what lies between social problems and their remedy. While humming some vibrational chord and smoking dope among the pansies gets nothing done but stupor...the kind that leads one to feel justified in blurting out fluff. JCH




no fluff - only ONE conciousness at this end...

it's always best to speak for one's own self...best wishes :yu: l

.

[James Horak]

Not if you're an earth-bound human. I've seen no indication of that and I doubt I will, just the presumption of someone that has not had the harsh realizations of life most have occasioned. Very young children, before indoctrination into dissembling and hiding from truth, might. Perhaps, if you're not child, you simply lack the moral conviction that the state of the world and the quandary of how it is permitted escapes you in its magnitude....resigning you to expressions of fluff and shallow denial....unless you're from off-earth and playing games. JCH

[Carmody]

Matter of interpretation, blue.

I personally see James as maybe saying, love and light is nice and all that, but you can still be run over by a bulldozer. Fear combined with reactionary stances and actions is probably not the best answer, but neither is living on fluffy clouds.

The balance my lie somewhere near: right thought -- becoming right behavior --- becoming right actions.

[Nanoo Nanoo]

It seems to be necessary to cleanse yourself of some of your heavier personal junk before you really get in touch with that "moral core" that's underneath. I'm sure that wonderful core is there inside all of us, but it seems to be necessary to go through a huge inner journey much like Astrid has described. That journey involves re-interpreting everything from your childhood and how it affected you. In my own experience, it also involves remembering everything from your childhood, in broad terms. I don't know anybody who hasn't needed to do that. It's quite fascinating, because each time you peel off a layer what you see about who you are and were looks very different from how you saw it up till then. For instance, six years ago it dawned on me that my stepfather had been a paranoid schizophrenic. Up till then I had assumed he was fairly sane (for lack of a better word), even though I had a degree in psychology. But getting the insight about what he actually was triggered whole chains of new insights and new interpretations covering many years of my life, as I saw how many things he did were motivated by paranoid agendas that weren't based on reality, or they were based on exaggerated versions of reality. The more fully a person uncovers that inner core, the happier they seem to get, in my experience.

I had similar experience with my parents also, only fairly recently i realized my mother is Autistic, and my father has an anxiety disorder.
It changed so much, and bought on a whole new layer of grief to work though, rather than being stuck in resentment and anger at all that i went through as a child,
i shifted into a greater depth of understanding of what really went on.
It's as though u have to go back and view your childhood through adult eyes to really make sense of it.
Identifying patterns also is a big one, as they often go generation after generation.

I was fairly determined to let the buck stop with me, and i believe i have been doing alot of "ancestoral cleaning up",
which interestingly enough is another shamanic concept, whereby u can clean up your family linages of stuck patterns,
illnesses and cycles, its quite fascinating.

I don't want to take up the thread,
But i'm really glad u are here James,
it's a blessing and a breath of fresh air to say the least!!

Hello Astrid and Trainee Human

I read your posts and they struck a chord with me.

the way things unravel in our lives is extrodinary . It reminds me of a happening in my life that sealed me into a firm belief that behind everything that happens stands something else.

When i was young , about 14 i had a bike accident one of a few serious ones where i almost lost my life. I broke my collar bone when i came off on a steep hill and sharp turn , my front wheel slipped on a pebble .. it was very painful when i landed. I managed to put the bike away and walk home up stairs and my father was there , i told him that i broke my collar bone and needed to go to hospital. He reacted in a way that i could never forget .. He was in rage ! he got upset , he yelled at me , he sat in his chair with a cigarette and glass of wine .. all the while im in pain saying calmly " please dad just take me to the hospital.. He had lost all sense of being , he was a mess.. and had no idea how to cope with a seemingly easy fix ..

I remember sitting there almost angry at him for not coming to my aid .. i actually lost a lot of respect for him because up till that point i thought he was the dad that fixed anything.

I carried this hurtful realisation for about 25 years till one day after his death i was chatting to my mother. She was remniscing about my father.. She told me of a story how he used to ride his bike to her village to visit her. When he used to come into the town the children would chase after him , run along side and call out to him , he was very popular and likeable. One of the children pleaded with him to take him for a ride and after asking permission from the parents he picked the little boy up and took him for a ride. During this ride my father was struck by a car that hurled the two into a ditch... My father was badly hurt but survived .. the little boy sadly died .. At that moment while my mother was telling me this story i was hurled back to the moment i was sitting on the couch holding my broken collar bone, wondering why my father was having a melt down... My question was finally answered ..

Unbeknowenst to me what tragic guilt and horror my poor father carried with him all his life... I felt so guilty for even feeling the way i did , but how was i to know ? ... The moral to the story is , there is always something the other person has had happen that is to be learned if we are to understand them and ourselves fully.

What this leads me to further conclude is that we have little or no education on dealing mechanisms with extreme or even passive emotional stresses. These are accumulative in our body and soul until we figure out how to deal with them and release their energy. We are limited by celings of our own creation all the time , the irony is we have not been given the teaching on how to remove them.

the beauty of a lost art of story telling helps to release vital information and life learning .

Thank you for sharing your beautiful personal stories with us :)

Love and Hugs to my friends

N

[lightblue]

carmody
Matter of interpretation, blue.

I personally see James as maybe saying, love and light is nice and all that, but you can still be run over by a bulldozer. Fear combined with reactionary stances and actions is probably not the best answer, but neither is living on fluffy clouds.

The balance my lie somewhere near: right thought -- becoming right behavior --- becoming right actions.

balance my lie somewhere near: right thought -- becoming right behavior --- becoming right action -- becoming results one is after.....thanks carmody :yes4: l

.

[James Horak]

Somethings cannot be so easily reconciled, Carmody, and we don't have time left to play these childish games with those that have sold their intellectual integrity out to "I am" nonsense and what is store window dressing hiding an empty vessel. Knowledge, courage, moral core are going to determine what happens and if we survive what's just around the corner. The appearance
of "Charles" and what that represents should have by now cleared out this smoke screening crap and left us with an open ground between the NWO advocates and those retaining human decency. All the fluff, all the morally confused, all the positionally challenged that resort to mindless denial....don't matter one whit to outcome. This time around they are ought but vegetation.
No more protectors of their own children than torn cardboard. The FEMA camps await them. Personally, I like "Charles" better. At least he has some character. But then I have no problem with understanding my enemy and no need to vilify him beyond what he may actually be in the hopes he will come over. The vegetation has not that grace and will demonstrate a capacity for effort ONLY to defame those that see them for what they are in all their sterile glory. JCH

[Jayke]

Obviously we have to get passed words alone, reading CLOSELY. SEEING closely. INTERPRETING closely. Dogville, for instance. Read what I review in my references of it as I urge others to see it and what benefit to the discussion I make of it. Otherwise you fall into the trap of the hit artists and CRASSLY OVERSIMPLIFY. For the benefit of flower children, let me say, the world is nearing a breaking point. We have a DUAL consciousness. ANY informed practitioner acknowledges, in the conscious Versus sub-conscious minds. Or is that to be found in your "garden"? Sublimating duality yields ambivalence. It is what lies between social problems and their remedy. While humming some vibrational chord and smoking dope among the pansies gets nothing done but stupor...the kind that leads one to feel justified in blurting out fluff. JCH

speaking of fluff...i'm still waiting to read anything of substance in relation to the title of the thread.

beyond split conciousness, that isn't a rift in time, is there anything else of substance you'd care to share with us mr Horak?

[modwiz]

But if we "rid" the planet of those that are seeking to destroy it, are we not like the main character in Dogville who kills the town?

If we do the cleansing of deeper reflection on our childhoods, work through the shadows of the lies and deceptions we were taught, find our innocence under it all, dust it off, and let it shine; and if many of us are doing that together in unity, wouldn't the light within us and with each other be so bright those that who "can't handle the truth" would crawl away, in their underground nests, on their own?

If we shine the light of truth on them, and everything around us, bright enough wouldn't it be a matter of them choosing to destroy themselves or come to the light?

We do not choose for them, they choose for themselves. Is it not all about choice?

If after we have reclaimed our innocence and hold ourselves, our parents, and the controllers blameless, and everything they are doing - while beaming from our own innocent moral core - then it seems to me that we wouldn't have to take action against them, other than to stand in our own light.

Let Light be the truth and the sword.

It seems to me that our intention and where we beam it makes all the difference here.

I want to thank you Mystique for your summaries and follow up questions on this thread. Combine what you are doing with Astrid and other contributors and we have a wonderful fleshing/minding out of this important material. You are really helping to ground James' ideas and make them more accessible, creating a tapestry of thoughts that are rendered easier to apprehend.

These ideas presented here represent the inner mountains we have to move facilitate a unity consciousness. This is very heavy psychological lifting and will allow for the light that cleanses our world of the vampire elite.

As you so eloquently put it; Let Light and our truth be the sword.

[crosby]

Dear James, thank you for posting this thread. i find it very interesting. one question i have for you is: what is your interpretation of Nietzche's "eternal recurrence" theory? although he had many philosophical ideas, this one seems to be his most popular. i believe he approached it as a factor of reliving the same life over and over and over again. any thoughts on that or arguments?
warmest regards, corson

[modwiz]

Somethings cannot be so easily reconciled, Carmody, and we don't have time left to play these childish games with those that have sold their intellectual integrity out to "I am" nonsense and what is store window dressing hiding an empty vessel. Knowledge, courage, moral core are going to determine what happens and if we survive what's just around the corner. The appearance
of "Charles" and what that represents should have by now cleared out this smoke screening crap and left us with an open ground between the NWO advocates and those retaining human decency. All the fluff, all the morally confused, all the positionally challenged that resort to mindless denial....don't matter one whit to outcome. This time around they are ought but vegetation.
No more protectors of their own children than torn cardboard. The FEMA camps await them. Personally, I like "Charles" better. At least he has some character. But then I have no problem with understanding my enemy and no need to vilify him beyond what he may actually be in the hopes he will come over. The vegetation has not that grace and will demonstrate a capacity for effort ONLY to defame those that see them for what they are in all their sterile glory. JCH

Thank you James for this powerful and articulate call to arms. Your use of the word vegetation works on a lot of levels and lays it out plainly and cleanly.

Yes the vegetables will protest and demand that they deserve other taxonomic classification but it would appear that will be the extent of their umbrage.

I am enjoying your postings immensely as are most of us visiting this thread.

[James Horak]

As you probably know, Fredrich Nietzche wrote in German. Good translations of his work, like that of Karl Marx, are not always the ones people read. I've always believed in him being a nihilistic evolutionist and approached his meanings from that perspective. This allowed him to pioneer and not just be some redundant synthesizer of others work. Thus I apply an interpretive aspect and find a great deal of room to disagree with some of the more popular of the secondary sources on his work....many of which are, to my way of thinking, agenda-driven. Eternal recurrence is more a part of a cultural mechanism than any theory, like natural selection is to evolution, it is to "will to power", a driving force binding to any concept of progress, both on personal and collective levels. In his ideal of the "overcomer" or "superman" this pattern is projected as what is overcome, having finally operated to induce the stress that forces a new man. Of course this is not the popular interpretation merely because it is not fashionable to Zionism that wants to label it as part-of-all-things-Nazi. Basically this is what Ayn Rand so poorly attempted to espouse. JCH

[greybeard]

Default Re: Exploring the Split Consciousness and its Parallel to Rifts in Time

Obviously we have to get passed words alone, reading CLOSELY. SEEING closely. INTERPRETING closely. Dogville, for instance. Read what I review in my references of it as I urge others to see it and what benefit to the discussion I make of it. Otherwise you fall into the trap of the hit artists and CRASSLY OVERSIMPLIFY. For the benefit of flower children, let me say, the world is nearing a breaking point. We have a DUAL consciousness. ANY informed practitioner acknowledges, in the conscious Versus sub-conscious minds. Or is that to be found in your "garden"? Sublimating duality yields ambivalence. It is what lies between social problems and their remedy. While humming some vibrational chord and smoking dope among the pansies gets nothing done but stupor...the kind that leads one to feel justified in blurting out fluff. JCH




no fluff - only ONE conciousness at this end...

it's always best to speak for one's own self...best wishes :yu: l

.

I have found that verbose complex statements are just words in general.
The likes of Gandhi brought about massive change through non violence and love of God.
I am not fond of the expression love and light because it makes light of the profound depth and strength of spiritual power.
Split consciousness is speaking of mind we are not mind.
We are limited by mind.

Right action comes from depth of spirituality far beyond labels like love and light.
Anyone ignoring that or belittling that knows very little of the power of the Creator within us.

Chris.

[bashi]

Default Re: Exploring the Split Consciousness and its Parallel to Rifts in Time

Obviously we have to get passed words alone, reading CLOSELY. SEEING closely. INTERPRETING closely. Dogville, for instance. Read what I review in my references of it as I urge others to see it and what benefit to the discussion I make of it. Otherwise you fall into the trap of the hit artists and CRASSLY OVERSIMPLIFY. For the benefit of flower children, let me say, the world is nearing a breaking point. We have a DUAL consciousness. ANY informed practitioner acknowledges, in the conscious Versus sub-conscious minds. Or is that to be found in your "garden"? Sublimating duality yields ambivalence. It is what lies between social problems and their remedy. While humming some vibrational chord and smoking dope among the pansies gets nothing done but stupor...the kind that leads one to feel justified in blurting out fluff. JCH




no fluff - only ONE conciousness at this end...

it's always best to speak for one's own self...best wishes :yu: l

.

I have found that verbose complex statements are just words in general.

Right action comes from depth of spirituality far beyond labels like love and light.
Anyone ignoring that or belittling that knows very little of the power of the Creator within us.

Chris.

Exactly! If you are really connected to your inner self, then there is no duality.

[crosby]

that is a very interesting interpretation. and i follow what you're saying. i never looked at his work from this perspective. i will definitely be rereading and rethinking what i've come to know. thanks so much. this is definitely a step in a new direction for me. i've always just looked upon the experience of deja-vous as how i learned to decipher it from my interpretations. this will aide in my being able to see things from a new light. this is tough work, i have a lot to learn. thanks again.
regards, corson

[Gardener]

Where is Dr Jung when you need him...
Oh here he is in wonderful simplicity
from (Memories Dreams and Reflections)

“I had a dream which both frightened and encouraged me. It was night in some unknown place, and I was making slow and painful headway against a mighty wind.Dense fog was flying along everywhere. I had my hands cupped around a tiny light which threatened to go out at any moment. Everything depended on my keeping this little light alive. Suddenly I had the feeling that something was coming up behind me. I loooked back and saw a gigantic black figure following me. But at the same moment I was conscious in spite of my terror, that I must keep my little light going through night and wind., regardless of all dangers. When I awoke I realized at once that the figure was my own shadow on the swirling mists, brought into being by the little light I was carrying. I knew too that this little light was my consciousness, the only light I have. Though infinitly small and fragile in comparison with the powers of darkness, it is still a light, my only light.”


This Quote is from pp16-17 Robert Johnson (1993) Owning Your Own Shadow
“Most people presume they are the master of their house. To acknowledge and then own one’s shadow is to admit there are many more sides to us that the world generally does not see. Dr Jung tells how he first intuited the presence of “another” in his psyche.

Hope this helps
g

[crosby]

so Gardner, what you're saying is we all have many conscious splits? like personalities? and that we subvert them to the one that takes the lead?
warmest regards, corson

[bashi]

Where is Dr Jung when you need him...
Oh here he is in wonderful simplicity
from (Memories Dreams and Reflections)

“I had a dream which both frightened and encouraged me. It was night in some unknown place, and I was making slow and painful headway against a mighty wind.Dense fog was flying along everywhere. I had my hands cupped around a tiny light which threatened to go out at any moment. Everything depended on my keeping this little light alive. Suddenly I had the feeling that something was coming up behind me. I loooked back and saw a gigantic black figure following me. But at the same moment I was conscious in spite of my terror, that I must keep my little light going through night and wind., regardless of all dangers. When I awoke I realized at once that the figure was my own shadow on the swirling mists, brought into being by the little light I was carrying. I knew too that this little light was my consciousness, the only light I have. Though infinitly small and fragile in comparison with the powers of darkness, it is still a light, my only light.”


This Quote is from pp16-17 Robert Johnson (1993) Owning Your Own Shadow
“Most people presume they are the master of their house. To acknowledge and then own one’s shadow is to admit there are many more sides to us that the world generally does not see. Dr Jung tells how he first intuited the presence of “another” in his psyche.

Hope this helps
g

Jung is one of the promoters of your own dark self, which the people are afraid of facing.
The concept of "Apocalypse Now" etc:

See this post: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?10870-Bill-Ryans-50-minute-video-commentary-on-the-Charles-interview-9-1-11&p=98278&viewfull=1#post98278

The whole NWO philosophy of mass-extinction justification is based on that.


But that concept is fundamentally flawed!

The try origin of our consciousness is divine! That has been scientifically proven.

If you allow your mind to shade that, then the duality and paranoia starts.

[Gardener]

so Gardner, what you're saying is we all have many conscious splits? like personalities? and that we subvert them to the one that takes the lead?
warmest regards, corson


Not sure what you mean here but personality or persona takes on multiple forms depending on the situation, at home, work, here, all slightly different, some vastly so. So yes 'many parts' as shakespear said. That is not the split that James is talking about though they are connected. The split consciousness is the conscious mind in relation to the unconscious mind, where the shadow resides lol. The real self comes into consciousness when the shadow/ego is integrated and becomes conscious. Then we know who we are and why we are the way we are. The ego is relegated into service rather than running the show.
OK this is a really big subject but in the dream that Jung had he saw that the tiny light he held in his hand represented the real self, very small and practically buried beneath the persona and the ego defenses which keep the shadow hidden. The shadow representing among other things all those things we don't want anyone to see.

Potted version, yea I know, clear as mud.:frusty:
g

[bashi]

so Gardner, what you're saying is we all have many conscious splits? like personalities? and that we subvert them to the one that takes the lead?
warmest regards, corson


Not sure what you mean here but personality or persona takes on multiple forms depending on the situation, at home, work, here, all slightly different, some vastly so. So yes 'many parts' as shakespear said. That is not the split that James is talking about though they are connected. The split consciousness is the conscious mind in relation to the unconscious mind, where the shadow resides lol. The real self comes into consciousness when the shadow/ego is integrated and becomes conscious. Then we know who we are and why we are the way we are. The ego is relegated into service rather than running the show.
OK this is a really big subject but in the dream that Jung had he saw that the tiny light he held in his hand represented the real self, very small and practically buried beneath the persona and the ego defenses which keep the shadow hidden. The shadow representing among other things all those things we don't want anyone to see.

Potted version, yea I know, clear as mud.:frusty:
g

It's a good, condensed explanation.

The problem with Jung is, that he never went beyond the duality.

[Gardener]

The problem with Jung is, that he never went beyond the duality.


I think he did in theory, (The Red Book documents his near psychosis) the whole idea of integration was to reach the real self the soul expression

Very very few do.

But can you understand Bashi why Jungs ideas are often trashed, along with Gurdjieff as well.

They are a way through the forest perilous (one way, there are others) and tptb do not want that. Its ok for one or two, but a popular mass awakening is a big no no.

Thanks for the challenge, I appreciate that.

g
running for cover again :peep:

[bashi]

The problem with Jung is, that he never went beyond the duality.


I think he did in theory, (The Red Book documents his near psychosis) the whole idea of integration was to reach the real self the soul expression

Very very few do.

But can you understand Bashi why Jungs ideas are often trashed, along with Gurdjieff as well.

They are a way through the forest perilous (one way, there are others) and tptb do not want that. Its ok for one or two, but a popular mass awakening is a big no no.

Thanks for the challenge, I appreciate that.

g
running for cover again :peep:

The concept that the dark and the light are having their origin in the self is not clearly stated by Jung. For him it was the merging of two opposites by realisation and recognition. But they are not opposites.
These both are projections of the same source: Consciousness
These projections are in existence for which purpose: To create more Consciousness!
It's the divine play...Yin/Yang ... Shiva/Shakti

[Mystique]

Coming from a violent home with two alcoholic parents: a father who bulldozed radio-active debris, and bodies from the nuclear fall-out in Nagasaki - who medicated his pain and shame in a bottle and angry words, and a mother who was transient growing up after the depression going to 24 different schools burying her pain and shame in my backside with a belt, and by verbally tearing me to shreds any time I had a thought or expression of my own; and later marrying a VietNam Vet who had his K-bar under the bed, and later still an ex-convict who could have been a serial killer if I had not weathered his violent outbursts and held to my truth, I assure you that working through all that shame, pain and the way I internalized it all to be somehow "my fault" was not a "fluffy" affair.

Being a single mom of three daughters, two being twins, on welfare and food stamps - while holding down a job and going to school, I am someone who could not easily show my moral compass because I learned my, and my children's, survival depended on not pissing off the people I depended on - including the Government Workers and the University Professors I needed to rely on.

I sacrificed my morals, and principles, and held back my truth because the people around me couldn't "handle the truth."

I had to work hard for 35 years to understand it all enough to find my, and their, innocence in all of this so I can take those beautiful, precious, joyful aspects of my being, dust them off, and find the ground of my moral being, my iron core, that reflects the light of my Eternal being.

I used my education to get in the trenches counseling runaway teens, domestic violence victims and homeless men, women, and families.

I just landed in that core last night watching that movie, and some earthquaking is going on in my soul right now. And I am finding my voice.

You, and many others James, have all helped me to get to this point, and I respect what you have to say and I know I can learn a lot from you.

But dammit James, do not disrespect ME, and my awakening by categorizing it as "fluff."

I know that what we are dealing with has buried their light in such a pile of ****, blood and guts they would rather take the whole world, and the Universe down with them than to face their own truth deep within them.

Some of them don't even have a consciousness - they are bio-robots.

And I know that I have never had to face "them" directly, the way you say you have. But I have had to claw my way out of the wreckage of human lives that they used and tossed aside in their false flag wars, penitentiaries and planned food shortages and I still stand here and say, the Light of My Truth is my Sword!!!

Trying to "get rid of them" by some sort of action on my part only directs my energies towards justifiable vengeance instead of standing my ground on moral principles.

Because after they are done trying to take everything I have created and everything I have left, Truth is all I have - and it is Everything to ME!

[Tuza]

Looks like we had similar backgrounds Mystique. Know the pain you had.

[Intraphase]

Coming from a violent home with two alcoholic parents: a father who bulldozed radio-active debris, and bodies from the nuclear fall-out in Nagasaki - who medicated his pain and shame in a bottle and angry words, and a mother who was transient growing up after the depression going to 24 different schools burying her pain and shame in my backside with a belt, and by verbally tearing me to shreds any time I had a thought or expression of my own; and later marrying a VietNam Vet who had his K-bar under the bed, and later still an ex-convict who could have been a serial killer if I had not weathered his verbally violence outbursts and held to my truth, I assure you that working through all that shame, pain and the way I internalized it all to be somehow "my fault" was not a "fluffy" affair.

Being a single mom of three daughters, two being twins, on welfare and food stamps - while holding down a job and going to school, I am someone who could not easily show my moral compass because I learned my, and my children's, survival depended on not pissing off the people I depended on - including the Government Workers and the University Professors I needed to rely on.

I sacrificed my morals, and principles, and held back my truth because the people around me couldn't "handle the truth."

I had to work hard for 35 years to understand it all enough to find my, and their, innocence in all of this so I can take those beautiful, precious, joyful aspects of my being, dust them off, and find the ground of my moral being, my iron core, that reflects the light of my eternal being.

I just landed in that core last night watching that movie, and some earthquaking is going on in my soul right now. And I am finding my voice.

You, and many others James, have all helped me to get to this point, and I respect what you have to say and I know I can learn a lot from you.

But dammit James, do not disrespect ME, and my awakening by categorizing it as "fluff."

:spy::hail::first::hail::spy:

I know that what we are dealing with has buried their light in such a pile of **** they would rather take the whole world, and the Universe down with them than to face their own truth deep within them.

Some of them don't even have a consciousness - they are bio-robots.

And I know that I have never had to face "them" directly. But I have had to claw my way out of the wreckage of human lives that they used and tossed aside in their false flag wars and famine and I still stand here and say, the Light of My Truth is my Sword!!!

Because after they are done taking trying to take everything I have left, that is all I have.



A Living Monolith

A tiny leaf boat shakes and rider quivers
Carried along by the turns of a mighty river
Holding a seed it must land just right on the bank
To once again spring forth a legion of its rank
A tomb carried by a hoof to where it can flourish
Seeking onward where deaths decay abounds and nourish
Bitter cruel northern winds and biting cold arctic blasts
Betray a terrible newness to a traveler that is without a past
Natures noble wayfaring sojourner longing to be free
Beset by challenges that threaten to kill the fledgling seed
Nightmares and dragons fly ominously overhead
To be spotted now is to join the ranks of the dead
Grass swaying new walls blowing comfortable drifts
Subterranean competition the underworld grows swift
Floods and rainbows eulogize in processional flows
An epic journey that must be taken just to begin to grow
Sheltered from april winds and there blowing strife
Rooting out a homestead where purchase means life
Rising up to the sun to perchance take in a bee cloud
Towering higher than all the old friends met on the ground
Monolith strength is the dream as each years circle goes round
By decree a hotel an hostel for many a sundry heros villians and clowns
Hijinks and riotous dramas playing out unceasingly that never let down
Faintly remembering the journey of a great tree that almost drowned
A bit of memory that rises as birds fly south and late autumn has come
When frost is on pumpkins and explosive colors fade to vistas of verdun
Oh Where, Oh Where,
Upon what raging uncaring angry arrogant river does lay a seed in its boat
Without a twig or bark or roots to quell the journies tremblings and shivers
Oh Where Oh Where
Clinging to what vagabond hoof might hide a naked seed across a grassy moat
Finding its own soft unspoiled ground where it can dream of a roof to draw hither
Where Oh Where I do ask you so uncannily bold
What foul patch of decay where other lives have fallen witness with no one to gloat
Shall a new living monolith rise magestically from the sweet earth for many a long day
To the poets,
To the painters,
To the composers,
Who hear my muse
To the mystics,
To the warriors,
To the broken hearted,
Who are still alive to choose
Remember I was once a tiny seed with nothing to lose.
Here I now stand rooted knotted hardened and dug in to my towered fortress
Until lightning or fire or the woodchoppers greedy axe strikes me deep and true
When that final glorious day comes and I know it surely shall and I am finally struck down
I hope I come crashing in a horriffic way-with a dreadful noise to the frightened timorous ground
Fire crackling venomously like a roaring inferno struck at directly from high heavens lightning above
Remembering every one who knew me from seedling to monument with hatred-indifference-or love
Until each years circle-of my very soul is devoured-and my spirit is finally quenched,-quelled and still
In that last final moment-when I am less than a speck of a seed-I shall exult in the power of my will
Set free




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RI3AnkAmao&feature=related

Tiny Dancer

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xepks8_stillwater-tiny-danceralmost-famous_music

God & Miss Lucy backseat driving Dr. Jesus & Maggie Pie.
I love the part where she rolls her eyes at precisely 1:00.


Turning back she just laughs..
The Boulevard is not that bad.
The Yellow Man he makes his stand in the auditorium...
Looking on she sings her song the words she knows the tune she hums

[aikisaw]

Coming from a violent home with two alcoholic parents: a father who bulldozed radio-active debris, and bodies from the nuclear fall-out in Nagasaki - who medicated his pain and shame in a bottle and angry words, and a mother who was transient growing up after the depression going to 24 different schools burying her pain and shame in my backside with a belt, and by verbally tearing me to shreds any time I had a thought or expression of my own; and later marrying a VietNam Vet who had his K-bar under the bed, and later still an ex-convict who could have been a serial killer if I had not weathered his violent outbursts and held to my truth, I assure you that working through all that shame, pain and the way I internalized it all to be somehow "my fault" was not a "fluffy" affair.

Being a single mom of three daughters, two being twins, on welfare and food stamps - while holding down a job and going to school, I am someone who could not easily show my moral compass because I learned my, and my children's, survival depended on not pissing off the people I depended on - including the Government Workers and the University Professors I needed to rely on.

I sacrificed my morals, and principles, and held back my truth because the people around me couldn't "handle the truth."

I had to work hard for 35 years to understand it all enough to find my, and their, innocence in all of this so I can take those beautiful, precious, joyful aspects of my being, dust them off, and find the ground of my moral being, my iron core, that reflects the light of my Eternal being.

I used my education to get in the trenches counseling runaway teens, domestic violence victims and homeless men, women, and families.

I just landed in that core last night watching that movie, and some earthquaking is going on in my soul right now. And I am finding my voice.

You, and many others James, have all helped me to get to this point, and I respect what you have to say and I know I can learn a lot from you.

But dammit James, do not disrespect ME, and my awakening by categorizing it as "fluff."

I know that what we are dealing with has buried their light in such a pile of ****, blood and guts they would rather take the whole world, and the Universe down with them than to face their own truth deep within them.

Some of them don't even have a consciousness - they are bio-robots.

And I know that I have never had to face "them" directly. But I have had to claw my way out of the wreckage of human lives that they used and tossed aside in their false flag wars, penitentiaries and food shortages and I still stand here and say, the Light of My Truth is my Sword!!!

Trying to "get rid of them" by some sort of action on my part only directs my energies towards justifiable vengeance instead of standing my ground on moral principles.

Because after they are done trying to take everything I have created and everything I have left, Truth is all I have - and it is Everything to ME!

Thank you for sharing this. I did not come here the same way you did but I know the road.



And I know that I have never had to face "them" directly. But I have had to claw my way out of the wreckage of human lives that they used and tossed aside in their false flag wars, penitentiaries and food shortages and I still stand here and say, the Light of My Truth is my Sword!!!

Trying to "get rid of them" by some sort of action on my part only directs my energies towards justifiable vengeance instead of standing my ground on moral principles.

Because after they are done trying to take everything I have created and everything I have left, Truth is all I have - and it is Everything to ME!

Aikisaw stands and applauds. Thank you, thank you, thank you Mystique.

[Mystique]

Thank you Intraphase, gotta love Stevie and Elton! That helped me simmer down a little.

I have a fire goin on in the belly of the volcano - the Kali Yuga kind that is ready to burn down the house and start over from the ashes.

[astrid]

Thank your Mystique for sharing your truth with us,
I'm seeing that a lot of us are " finding our voice" -finally.
And i must say its feeling pretty dam good!

This thread has me very encouraged that we have a platform to explore certain issues that are very rarely discussed.

[Mystique]

While humming some vibrational chord and smoking dope among the pansies gets nothing done but stupor...the kind that leads one to feel justified in blurting out fluff. JCH

Sound vibrations are part of what vibrates the fabric of life into physical form; humming in vibration with it stimulates our own electromagnetic fabric into the same resonant frequency. It helps heal the tears in the fabric when done with intention to heal.

Learning intimately the Spirit Medicine of the Plant King/Queendom is as an Ancient a practice as there has been a Nature to practice it with. Native Americans call "dope" peju-ta - little Medicine. Used with healing intention can also help heal the mind and body.

It is not about what it is in Nature We use as vehicles to understand it with it, but more the healing intention we hold as We learn from them.

We are Sound frequency; We are Plants.

To hold Ourselves as separate, from that which We are, is part of the split consciousness We are attempting to heal; as well as attempting to understand in this thread.

[Mystique]

Thank your Mystique for sharing your truth with us,
I'm seeing that a lot of us are " finding our voice" -finally.
And i must say its feeling pretty dam good!

This thread has me very encouraged that we have a platform to explore certain issues that are very rarely discussed.

Thank you Astrid. I think your signature says it all!

[Mystique]

James, I am trying to understand where You are coming from.

In Your interviews You are talking about being intimately connected to the EMVs, that are intimately connected to the Sun, that are intimately connected to God (as the "hand of God"). Yet when We talk of Love and Light, you imply that it is being like "pansies" and "fluffy" without substance.

Surely You, out of anyone, would know the power of the Light of the Sun and that the Light of the "Sun of God" is within.

That light is so bright, so powerful that you have to Be Light to meet it.

That is what I am inspiring Myself to do. To face my shadows and re-connect with the Light that shines up in everything that I Am,as ME.

After all, I Am Awarized Photons, densifying as Elements, riding along in Them as Consciousness.

Can you shine some light on that...please?

[Mystique]

James wrote on the thread Re: The Vampire Elite and the New World Order

Intraphase, Dogville is a tale of man's brutalization of man. As well, it serves to parallel the model of just how this process serves manipulation all the way from the top of the pyramid on down. All the way up and down this pyramid are steps made of myth, false analogy, logical fallacy. At the very bottom are false materialistic values. The plight of the young lady is the example of fine mind and values ultimately subverted by outrage. It is a warning and an absolute outcry to the need for direction or moral core to everything we as humans do. The young lady has nothing between her and both extremes of the pyramid. In her final polarization is the focus of where "Charles" wants to take all those not better advised, with the wisdom needed not to fall into such traps. This historically has been the vicious cycle caused by the less discerning aspects of split consciousness and what takes the liberator to become the monster. JCH

[modwiz]

Mystique
Thank youfor your powerful soul venting posts. As an old hippie who smoked a lot of pot in my life and know of its virtues and vices I think I know where James is coming from.
There are those who live in a smoke filled haze killing their pain while keeping a window open to spirituality. I have done it. He is referring to the stuck ones who would rather excuse their addiction than take a look at their pain and the mountains inside them preventing unity of the spirit.

Your point about plants being medicine is correct and no plant including the poppy is excluded from having a sacred role to play. Pain can kill and/or cause madness and the poppy was given to us for that purpose. I believe James would take no issue there.

He was never talking to you. You thought he was. You are his main partner in bringing us this important soul clearing, consciousness uniting story.

Your passion and nakedness here, in this thread allows us to be touched in a palpable way. Your cold sweats are ours as are your hot rages and you have fellow travelers here on this journey towards wholeness.

Your mistaking James intent was no mistake because it ignited the process that is your unfolding you are sharing here with us in your posts. He has started this but you have made it moist and sloppy enough for us all to get some of it on us and experience this in a visceral way instead of another exercise of our intellect.

This would not have been possible without the fire of your anger. It was a small outburst, contained and productive instead of a wasting, consuming conflagration. It has served you and us well.

It is time for James to be excused for his phrasing, in my opinion. He is only the messenger.

[astrid]

For sure Modwiz, often people forget that being emotionally triggered is a gift,
bringing things hidden to the surface, that they can then finally set free.

Unfortunately the messengers often get the blame for this.
When people don't understand that your emotions are your own, to process and deal with.
And whats more u always have a choice how u respond to your environment.

But those that prefer to remain in the victim role are very hard to reach,
-which of course is perceived to be easier as u don't have to take responsibility for your part in the dance of life.
But its actually way harder as it takes so much energy to uphold, and remain in this cycle of self-destruction.

That's what i find ironic these days, life feels so much easier , when u overcome at few of these hurdles,
i guess its because u are more going with the flow of creation, rather than against it.

[greybeard]

"Neither my science nor my art can help you but some have recovered from Alcoholism by spiritual means"

Thats what C Jung told Bill W the founder of AA

Bill was dying of Alcoholism and went to see Carl several times.
At that time 99.9% died from it.

Bill went home and was literally enlightened.
From that arose the 12 steps of AA which has saved the lives of countless millions me included.
So all the understanding of mind by the Brilliant Carl Jung could not save one alcholic whilst the Power of God as testified in the Big Book saved millions
The focus here on mind is deeply flawed
It sounds great people think if it sounds clever then it is.
It if flim flam intelligent fluff

Why do people want to follow anything or anyone,
All you need to move forward, be a better person is within you.
If you want or think you would benefit from spiritual guidance read the 12 suggested steps of AA
They work

AA Steps


1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol - that our lives had become unmanageable.

2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.

4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.

5. Admitted to God, to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.

6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.

7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.

8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.

9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.

10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.

11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.

12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

Reprinted from the book Alcoholics Anonymous (The Big Book)
with permission of A.A. World Services, Inc.

[bashi]

Mystique
Thank youfor your powerful soul venting posts. As an old hippie who smoked a lot of pot in my life and know of its virtues and vices I think I know where James is coming from.
There are those who live in a smoke filled haze killing their pain while keeping a window open to spirituality. I have done it. He is referring to the stuck ones who would rather excuse their addiction than take a look at their pain and the mountains inside them preventing unity of the spirit.

Your point about plants being medicine is correct and no plant including the poppy is excluded from having a sacred role to play. Pain can kill and/or cause madness and the poppy was given to us for that purpose. I believe James would take no issue there.

He was never talking to you. You thought he was. You are his main partner in bringing us this important soul clearing, consciousness uniting story.

Your passion and nakedness here, in this thread allows us to be touched in a palpable way. Your cold sweats are ours as are your hot rages and you have fellow travelers here on this journey towards wholeness.

Your mistaking James intent was no mistake because it ignited the process that is your unfolding you are sharing here with us in your posts. He has started this but you have made it moist and sloppy enough for us all to get some of it on us and experience this in a visceral way instead of another exercise of our intellect.

This would not have been possible without the fire of your anger. It was a small outburst, contained and productive instead of a wasting, consuming conflagration. It has served you and us well.

It is time for James to be excused for his phrasing, in my opinion. He is only the messenger.

Well modwiz,
unfortunately you are wrong this time, and i can prove it.

[greybeard]

Is yet another messenger really needed?
Most of these messages originate in the lower astral and while they talk of God and consciousness they actually lead in the wrong direction.
They really appeal to the mind
Mind will not get your spiritual vibration raised.
It is like asking the thief to solve the crime
One has to go beyond mind
The longest journey is from mind to heart.
I is cruial we make that journey now.
Truth seeker Dan has some interesting posts and videos Bern left some great information before he left
Mayan wave is upon us that is why the energy is changing that is why there is so much friction here/
Energy is coming in from the cosmos it is now on record, NASA admits massive band of magnetic energy heading our way that is very likely to change our DNA
Check it all out for yourselves.
Not a David Wilcock fan but he might actually have got it right
Same with David Icke
All is a an illusion but love he said
Is he love and light I think not

I sugest people are looking in the wrong direction here, Just wasting your valuable time
Chris

[Nortreb]

This would not have been possible without the fire of your anger. It was a small outburst, contained and productive instead of a wasting, consuming conflagration. It has served you and us well. It is time for James to be excused for his phrasing, in my opinion. He is only the messenger.

Thanks Modwiz for your eloquence! I feel you!

Peace

[jorr lundstrom]

Is yet another messenger really needed?
Most of these messages originate in the lower astral and while they talk of God and consciousness they actually lead in the wrong direction.
They really appeal to the mind
Mind will not get your spiritual vibration raised.
It is like asking the thief to solve the crime
One has to go beyond mind
The longest journey is from mind to heart.
I is cruial we make that journey now.
Truth seeker Dan has some interesting posts and videos Bern left some great information before he left
Mayan wave is upon us that is why the energy is changing that is why there is so much friction here/
Energy is coming in from the cosmos it is now on record, NASA admits massive band of magnetic energy heading our way that is very likely to change our DNA
Check it all out for yourselves.
Not a David Wilcock fan but he might actually have got it right
Same with David Icke
All is a an illusion but love he said
Is he love and light I think not

I sugest people are looking in the wrong direction here, Just wasting your valuable time
Chris

Ok, your point of view is noticed. Those writing in this thread seem with very few exeptions

find a lot of useful stuff in investigating their minds. Is that a problem?

Ramana Maharshi didnt condemn mind, so how can it be unproper territory.

Did you see a sign saying : This is mind, no trepassing? Love and carrots

[greybeard]

Is yet another messenger really needed?
Most of these messages originate in the lower astral and while they talk of God and consciousness they actually lead in the wrong direction.
They really appeal to the mind
Mind will not get your spiritual vibration raised.
It is like asking the thief to solve the crime
One has to go beyond mind
The longest journey is from mind to heart.
I is cruial we make that journey now.
Truth seeker Dan has some interesting posts and videos Bern left some great information before he left
Mayan wave is upon us that is why the energy is changing that is why there is so much friction here/
Energy is coming in from the cosmos it is now on record, NASA admits massive band of magnetic energy heading our way that is very likely to change our DNA
Check it all out for yourselves.
Not a David Wilcock fan but he might actually have got it right
Same with David Icke
All is a an illusion but love he said
Is he love and light I think not

I sugest people are looking in the wrong direction here, Just wasting your valuable time
Chris

Ok, your point of view is noticed. Those writing in this thread seem with very few exeptions

find a lot of useful stuff in investigating their minds. Is that a problem?

Ramana Maharshi didnt condemn mind, so how can it be unproper territory.

Did you see a sign saying : This is mind, no trepassing? Love and carrots

Ramana said
Use the thorn to remove the thorn then throw both away
So yes intellect is used to get to the point of going beyond mind, then no longer required.
The mind is a can of worms.
If you really look at the 12steps of AA you will see all that is needed to build just society.

Chris

[greybeard]

Just one more thing to be clear I am a qualified Psycotherapist Ericksonian Hypnotherapist and NLP practitioner retired.
I qualified with British Hypnosis research as St Anns's Hospital London in 1990.

I saw thousand of patients before retiring

So forgeting spirituality and just looking at rationality.
Specifically I would not personally go in the direction of what is coming from James H.

Investigate consciousness, spirituality mind by all means.

Chris

[jorr lundstrom]

Ok, I have heard about free will, so wots the problem?

And there was a blue pill too...............

[astrid]

SIgh... i'm not sure that the issue is.

We are all teachers and we are all students, yes??
I really enjoy learning from others, and sharing with others.


I sugest people are looking in the wrong direction here, Just wasting your valuable time
Chris

With all due respect Chris, and i really enjoy your posts, but this is pretty egoic coming from you.
Surely its up to us to decide what resonates and what doesn't?

Many paths lead to the same place and last time i checked we still had the right to choose .
You have a problem with messengers, but what is a messenger?
What is a message?
And who did you learn from?
I remember a list of your teachers in one of your threads.
One of who i have recently just finished reading a book from, and i enjoyed it immensely,
so i thank you for you sharing that.

James has started a thread here on his work,
he was invited, here to share his point of view
can we allow him to do that?

With all due respect, i'm just a bit over every thread turning into a right vs wrong polarity match.
Its becoming pretty tiring.
Whats right for one might be totally wrong for another.
But we will all get there in the end....

much love to all

Astrid

[greybeard]

Flyswim, a mind divided by conscious and sub-conscious, the former constantly in fear of the other, trying to suppress it's uncompromising recall and assertion of correcting the forward speech of dissembling and rationalizing to more perfect candor (at the expense of observing social "graces") in its own expressions of reverse speech. Rifting the two minds into an inharmonious struggle and denying broader participation of latent abilities that might otherwise express. JCH

In the world of Psychology these statements are know as normalization's.
Is that the word>
Anyway they can mean anything that you want them to mean, they are non specific statements which, because they are not complete keeps you asking for more and you get more of the same but it is a rabbit hole.
The first part has to make sense and is undeniably true, that catches your attention
It is a standard format for disinformation
Dont take my word for it investigate fully.

Im all for teachers and learning as pointed out.
I have down so many dead ends you would no believe it.

Try and pin down anything that is actually being said

"at the expense of observing social "graces"

What exactly does that mean?

We could have three new threads just to discuss that one.

Chris

[bashi]

With all due respect Chris, and i really enjoy your posts, but this is pretty egoic coming from you.
Surely its up to us to decide what resonates and what doesn't?



This is a discussion forum. Different POVs can be presented and questioned. Everybody is allowed to chose and present questions.
If now a questioneer, like Mystique, is being bashed or degraded in any way - only for asking questions - then this discussion forum is turned into a media-outlet of that particular presenter.


Then this not posting a POV but trying to IMPOSE a particular POV.

Thats a HUGE difference. Particularly if the manner in it is done, is offensive, which it was to her.

[shijo]

so Gardner, what you're saying is we all have many conscious splits? like personalities? and that we subvert them to the one that takes the lead?
warmest regards, corson


Not sure what you mean here but personality or persona takes on multiple forms depending on the situation, at home, work, here, all slightly different, some vastly so. So yes 'many parts' as shakespear said. That is not the split that James is talking about though they are connected. The split consciousness is the conscious mind in relation to the unconscious mind, where the shadow resides lol. The real self comes into consciousness when the shadow/ego is integrated and becomes conscious. Then we know who we are and why we are the way we are. The ego is relegated into service rather than running the show.
OK this is a really big subject but in the dream that Jung had he saw that the tiny light he held in his hand represented the real self, very small and practically buried beneath the persona and the ego defenses which keep the shadow hidden. The shadow representing among other things all those things we don't want anyone to see.

Potted version, yea I know, clear as mud.:frusty:
g

It's a good, condensed explanation.

The problem with Jung is, that he never went beyond the duality.

and you have have you Bashi,?

[bashi]

so Gardner, what you're saying is we all have many conscious splits? like personalities? and that we subvert them to the one that takes the lead?
warmest regards, corson


Not sure what you mean here but personality or persona takes on multiple forms depending on the situation, at home, work, here, all slightly different, some vastly so. So yes 'many parts' as shakespear said. That is not the split that James is talking about though they are connected. The split consciousness is the conscious mind in relation to the unconscious mind, where the shadow resides lol. The real self comes into consciousness when the shadow/ego is integrated and becomes conscious. Then we know who we are and why we are the way we are. The ego is relegated into service rather than running the show.
OK this is a really big subject but in the dream that Jung had he saw that the tiny light he held in his hand represented the real self, very small and practically buried beneath the persona and the ego defenses which keep the shadow hidden. The shadow representing among other things all those things we don't want anyone to see.

Potted version, yea I know, clear as mud.:frusty:
g

It's a good, condensed explanation.

The problem with Jung is, that he never went beyond the duality.

and you have have you Bashi,?

Can you hear the clap of the single hand?

[greybeard]

The concept historically of ritual cleansing with which I took poetic license was not intended to be taken quite so literally but more in an euphemistic sense. I was discerning between the need to recognize what we need to rid ourselves of in order to advance, not an arcane process of "purification". It's obvious that if fraudulent debt accumulation, social engineers and corrupt legislators, judges and bureaucrats were removed (ridded) we, as both collective and individual, would better prosper. Awareness and PRECISE determination of treason are good beginnings on the road to our ridding ourselves of these problems. Once blinders are removed social engineers cannot depend any longer on our ignorance of precise causes to further their instrumentations of these corruptions into any fascist feudal takeover and return to absolutism; we have removed their self-deceiving elitist myth making machinery. EXACTLY as you see it being implemented here on Avalon, where an experiment of its own is taking place and where the confusion may be part of convincing some "audience" that we all deserve what the NWO has in store for us...at least in some convoluted and entrained way of thinking. JCH

Sounds great but is it actually saying anything?

Its not the same content as "Ashana Dene? (cant spell)
but the delivery very similar.

Can any body apart from James Horak actually explain this.

There is no context so each reader could identify personally with it because we put a personal context on it.
However we would not get a unified meaning out of it, everyone could take a different meaning from it, so it is actually divisive.

Truth from a good teacher is in a context and very specific so it is understandable by all, so at least there is a possibility that all readers will get virtually the same thing out of it.

Its like a university lecture.
Only for the intelligentsia.

Your mind, your choice what you put in it.

Chris

[bashi]

The concept historically of ritual cleansing with which I took poetic license was not intended to be taken quite so literally but more in an euphemistic sense. I was discerning between the need to recognize what we need to rid ourselves of in order to advance, not an arcane process of "purification". It's obvious that if fraudulent debt accumulation, social engineers and corrupt legislators, judges and bureaucrats were removed (ridded) we, as both collective and individual, would better prosper. Awareness and PRECISE determination of treason are good beginnings on the road to our ridding ourselves of these problems. Once blinders are removed social engineers cannot depend any longer on our ignorance of precise causes to further their instrumentations of these corruptions into any fascist feudal takeover and return to absolutism; we have removed their self-deceiving elitist myth making machinery. EXACTLY as you see it being implemented here on Avalon, where an experiment of its own is taking place and where the confusion may be part of convincing some "audience" that we all deserve what the NWO has in store for us...at least in some convoluted and entrained way of thinking. JCH

Sounds great but is it actually saying anything?

Its not the same content as "Ashana Dene? (cant spell)
but the delivery very similar.

Can any body apart from James Horak actually explain this.

There is no context so each reader could identify personally with it because we put a personal context on it.
However we would not get a unified meaning out of it, everyone could take a different meaning from it, so it is actually divisive.

Truth from a good teacher is in a context and very specific so it is understandable by all, so at least there is a possibility that all readers will get virtually the same thing out of it.

Its like a university lecture.
Only for the intelligentsia.

Your mind, your choice what you put in it.

Chris

OMG, greybeard! You are mentioning the CULT of Ashayana Dean here?
Do you think that the presentations of James Horak and A. Deane are very similar?

[lightblue]

chris:
Sounds great but is it actually saying anything?

Its not the same content as "Ashana Dene? (cant spell)
but the delivery very similar.

Can any body apart from James Horak actually explain this.

There is no context so each reader could identify personally with it because we put a personal context on it.
However we would not get a unified meaning out of it, everyone could take a different meaning from it, so it is actually divisive.

Truth from a good teacher is in a context and very specific so it is understandable by all, so at least there is a possibility that all readers will get virtually the same thing out of it.

Its like a university lecture.
Only for the intelligentsia.

Your mind, your choice what you put in it.

Chris

thanks for this reminder chris..

content may even sound watertight - but with no CONTEXT, there's NO value to it, there's no content that is....


frankie may well be able to account for his actions, but he needn't ...the most important to see is: that's what cats do.. :yes4: l

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7776450.stm

.

[jorr lundstrom]

I think its good to wait with the topic until the highjackers are done.

[aikisaw]

Mystique wrote

And I know that I have never had to face "them" directly, the way you say you have. But I have had to claw my way out of the wreckage of human lives that they used and tossed aside in their false flag wars, penitentiaries and planned food shortages and I still stand here and say, the Light of My Truth is my Sword!!!

Trying to "get rid of them" by some sort of action on my part only directs my energies towards justifiable vengeance instead of standing my ground on moral principles.

Because after they are done trying to take everything I have created and everything I have left, Truth is all I have - and it is Everything to ME!

I could not sleep for hours after reading this post. To me it was an honest look at the world you see out the window. It was an honest look at the damage done that carries on for generations. It was nice to see some one take a stand and tell you who they are.

I struggle with wanting vengeance. You look at the pain the PTB are causing and I am supposed to read the 12 step program!! Not exactly what came to my mind.

I know that what I would like to do does not speak to higher self. I know that it would lead to creating the same things that have happened with our society. I know I have to let go of vengeance to heal. I'm trying.

Trying to reconcile the two realities that exist with myself is why I'm on this thread.

I don't know if James has the answer or not but I want to look at it.


I'm searchin' for one clear moment of love and truth
I still got a little faith
But what I need is some proof tonight
I'm lookin' for it in your eyes

Bruce Sprinsteen Real World

[lightblue]

jorr l
I think its good to wait with the topic until the highjackers are done.

you may have misunderstood a message of the video clip - it is not about highjacking/stealing, it is about common errors MIND is prone to making ..

best wishes :thank_you2: l

.

[greybeard]

Hijackers seem to be part of Avalon.
I dont mind being wrong.
I dont hold an opinion set in concrete.
I try to look at facts.
Perception changes ultimate truth does not.
I dont have a problem with any person James produced a good video regarding what has happened here recently.

All am saying is keep it simple.
If I want to know about golf I go to a golf pro not a carpenter who has golf as a hobby.
James has expertise in certain areas.

If I want to know about raising consciousness, my own in particular, then I spend time with spiritual giants who have done it for want of a better expression
The list is long and dates back 1000s of years.

I doubt very much that James wants to start a cult, but I wish he would be clearer in what he says.

At this time the controllers are loosing power and they would do anything to prevent the raising of consciousness, so many attractive diversions are put our way.
Many well meaning people are used in this way.

if we want unity consciousness by any name, strangely enough first we have to be our own person.
When we are our own person there is no diversion no group.
Belief systems let go off.

There is no judgment of people who talk of love and light as being dope smokers, lumped in one bucket to be disposed of.
I dont like any labels, we can move towards being as one by disposing of labels.
So getting complex merely defeats the very purpose it claims to me achieving.

Its simple we be part of raising consciousness in our own unique way.

The science of mind has nothing to do with consciousness raising.

It will take you so far then you have to get of that bus and get on the next.

Are we ready to get off the bus of current consciousness and are prepared and ready to get on the next?
Its coming whether we are ready or not.

Chris

[James Horak]

Indeed, Mystique, hardly would I disrespect you. Obviously you are worthy of respect. My own father bore similar scars, those that drove him into VA hospitals time and time again. He designed the parachutes that were used to slow those A-bombs that fell on Nagasaki and Hiroshima so that the plane had more time to get away and so that the detonators were more likely to be timed just right for exploding the reactions at 3 to 5,000 feet and the fireball would go down before it went up, to increase the kill ratio. His initial purpose in the design of this tri-chimney chute was to help paratroopers have some means to control where they landed and to avoid landing in mine fields or heavy enemy fire. Instead... it broke him. The vegetation is, by virtue of intention or personal problems, trying to divert this thread into meaningless redundancy. Please, for the sake of those that know what valor and self-sacrifice is, people like yourself, let's not let them.

[bashi]

The vegetation is, by virtue of intention or personal problems, trying to divert this thread into meaningless redundancy.

Mr. Horak, can you please explain what you meant by this?
and also
Who or what is the "VEGETATION"?

[Carmody]

In my experience..the closer one gets to 'decloaking' the underlying self..which will revert to a self connected to all...the closer one gets..paradoxically..the stronger the sense that one tends to emanate a version of singular truth as held by that individual mind.

In the end, all it is.... is the singular path that the individual has taken in the effort to shed their ego.

There is the path one takes.... but the road itself....is the common denominator.

A million ways to get to a universal truth.

Like herding cats, it is.

the trick, is to explain it in a universal language. There's the rub..as the path is meandering and entirely individual. It has to be individual as the given life that has cloaked these truths is individual and lies within the individual.

In the 'old' days,we had the mystery cults to help get people get past their individual issues. Apparently, if read closely enough, it appears that possibly Scientology, in it's original form (not it's current form), was an attempt to get that sort of understanding to western society.

We have versions of eastern mystery schools that have survived for millenia, so far...but their usefulness in a time where we need it fast and in larger groups..is somewhat of a limiting factor in this time and age.

[James Horak]

I might add this article for further consideration of my point and to suggest perhaps a little fungus has been added to the vegetation on Avalon.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/02/16/945768/-UPDATED
JCH

[Carmody]

I might add this article for further consideration of my point and to suggest perhaps a little fungus has been added to the vegetation on Avalon.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/02/16/945768/-UPDATED
JCH

I know someone who was making 'fake' personas for interacting with people on messaging systems..and they were successful at it.

This was back in 1993-5 or so. All they were using was C++ programming and a knowledge of how people interact. It would take a bit of time for people to figure out (some never did) that they were interacting with a 'bot'. It is my estimation that he was the creator of the first 'successful' bot, to ever appear out there on what has become 'the internet'.

My experience in those area goes back quite far, one might say.

Believe it or no, IMO, it may be logistically possible, (for the average group-without massive programming skills/access, etc) to deduce whether a participant is a 'bot' or not...through checking psychically --if they are human or not. To read them, so to speak.

edit: In the end, IIRC, he DID share the kernel of that bit of programming ...and I've got a feeling that his efforts were looked at and incorporated in the creation of what we have today -in such electronic hydra. His was the granddaddy of all. In some manner, I've no doubt that he influenced what you see out there today.

The key component..I'm recalling, was the trip words that came from and comes from the initial human interaction. The bot would return it in a way that changed the conversation but retained the key original bits of phraseology from the initial human input. thus the original human input was taken down a path of thinking they were in some sort of interaction, but the response was partially random.

The key to figuring out that the bot was at the other end, is that the subjects covered by the bot were too multi-pronged in the final analysis.

The point being that the bot could not concentrate in the singular or shift constructively, all it could do is bring a 'sandwich plate' (many different types of sandwiches) and then if the person responded by working with one of the concepts tossed in (from that sandwich plate), then it could (the bot) go to bringing the next sandwich plate of thoughts and then look for the key phrase points for further unfolding.

In essence, the bot can be fooled by the centering of the self and the conversation. The Achilles heel and the gauntlet of human interaction that it has 'trouble' passing by or through, is the various forms of phrasing that humans can exhibit and share as a form of communication on their own.

For example, I tend to go through various forms of communique shaping and types. Heck I even mix them in the same given post.

The bots have the hardest time dealing with that...as that is a matter of psychological expression and is a variable in many human interactions.

[greybeard]

James
Im laughing.
You are calling your readership here vegetation and fungus.
Very higher consciousness and direct..
I have taken the time to visit your website and viewed a couple of your videos, yes your life has not been easy.
Bet you would not swap yours for mine as it was,
It is great now thanks to the unconditional love shared in AA rooms.
I dont see much unconditional love in calling people vegitation or fungi.
Do you personally want to live in a world where people are refered to in this way?

Chris

[James Horak]

It doesn't even have to amount to bots, Carmody. The idea of controlling and minimalizing discussions is to quickly respond to a thread with the right resource and that could be simply the particular choice in what "hit artist" was best to use. It's the idea of network surveillance AND application of resource where you could use various different persona to imply a broader range of support than you actually had. JCH

[James Horak]

It's their behavior or the use to which it applied I call that, Greybeard. "By their deeds we know them". Hopefully everyone is more. However in some cases I think I may be doing plants an injustice. JCH

[Ahkenaten]

..............................................

[Mystique]

In the world of Psychology these statements are know as normalization's.
Is that the word>Chris

Are you speaking of Richard Bandler and John Grinders term "nominalizations" whereby the process word or verb in the deep structure of the mind (subconscious) appears as noun in the surface structure (conscious) a noun like in, "Our terror is blocking us"? For example, where the word "terror" is nominalized, made into a noun instead of saying, "Our feelings are terrifying us'"?

Seems to me, that bringing those stuck emotions in the deep structure of our minds to the surface and giving them momentum and flow in the way we structure how we represent our reality is pertinent to the discussion here on how to be more conscious of the split.

Because our minds are split, then becoming aware of it and bringing a new perspective on it, whether it is a spiritual perspective, a logical one or an emotional one, would be helpful in our understanding of ourselves. It may help to "undamn" the flow of energy that is stuck in our broken psyches that prevents our Spiritual awareness.

Even if it is to realize our Spiritual awareness is what it takes to heal the split, it is a worthwhile discussion to me.

(That is really cool for me to know, Greybeard, that you used NLP in your practice. I did not know that. I studied under Robert Dilts and Todd Epstein.)

[James Horak]

Yes, most certainly, for the sake of the Rosecrucian's god, avoid the context. Good diversion, critter. JCH

[Carmody]

It doesn't even have to amount to bots, Carmody. The idea of controlling and minimalizing discussions is to quickly respond to a thread with the right resource and that could be simply the particular choice in what "hit artist" was best to use. It's the idea of network surveillance AND application of resource where you could use various different persona to imply a broader range of support than you actually had. JCH

I have dealt with such people (interfering) on these subjects before.

I cut them down where I find them. If I indeed I recognize what they are doing.

I keep thinking that it is important to some degree to have those who do such things exposed, but it can be costly in the attempt... as some of the target audience can and do run away and thus never achieve their desire, which is to have some sort of help or clues as to how to clear themselves of their own foibles and issues.

If one, were to, for example, consider Charles to be an interloper and if one was to consider that mankind is on a threshold of some sort --and-- to consider that the Mayan acceleration is about to occur in some fashion (this does not need to be a theme/component -or even be real- but may be, who knows)..then.... this whole thing may have been an attempt to grab the ring in some fashion and divert a coming block of energy in 'man' overall and steer it elsewhere and into other areas. to grab the energy and run it into the ditch, so to speak. I've told him that if he is 'for real' (according to the giving of veracity to the advertised components), then more power to him-on with it, etc. But the actions and conversations so far do not make that clear.

This was my main interest concerning the dark possibilities in who or what Charles may or may not be.

[Mystique]

Indeed, Mystique, hardly would I disrespect you. Obviously you are worthy of respect. My own father bore similar scars, those that drove him into VA hospitals time and time again. He designed the parachutes that were used to slow those A-bombs that fell on Nagasaki and Hiroshima so that the plane had more time to get away and so that the detonators were more likely to be timed just right for exploding the reactions at 3 to 5,000 feet and the fireball would go down before it went up, to increase the kill ratio. His initial purpose in the design of this tri-chimney chute was to help paratroopers have some means to control where they landed and to avoid landing in mine fields or heavy enemy fire. Instead... it broke him. The vegetation is, by virtue of intention or personal problems, trying to divert this thread into meaningless redundancy. Please, for the sake of those that know what valor and self-sacrifice is, people like yourself, let's not let them.

Thank you James, for your response. My dad, even with his 8th grade education and alcoholic stupors, researched the effects of low-level radiation poisoning and spearheaded the "Atomic Veterans" movement. His story was in the first chapter of Norman Soloman's book "Killing Our Own."

Dad fought the VA to be given disability for his low-level radiation symptoms and was continually denied. He at one point thought the VA was deliberately trying to kill him by messing with his meds on some kind of "experimental drug study" while he was in the Hospital. He died at 57 of "acceleration of the aging process". Pretty messed up s***.

[Icecold]

I think its fairly well known that a consistent use of alcohol reduces the brain to the size of a billiard ball, in some extreme cases.....a walnut. CONSCIOUSNESS

I've always been a tea totaller. Stayed away from the poison. Creates irreparable damage. A RIFT IN TIME.

Any one like a slice of :pizza: ? There is a PARALLEL here somewhere.

[Carmody]

It doesn't even have to amount to bots, Carmody. The idea of controlling and minimalizing discussions is to quickly respond to a thread with the right resource and that could be simply the particular choice in what "hit artist" was best to use. It's the idea of network surveillance AND application of resource where you could use various different persona to imply a broader range of support than you actually had. JCH

I have dealt with such people (interfering) on these subjects before.

I cut them down where I find them. If I indeed I recognize what they are doing.

I keep thinking that it is important to some degree to have those who do such things exposed, but it can be costly in the attempt... as some of the target audience can and do run away and thus never achieve their desire, which is to have some sort of help or clues as to how to clear themselves of their own foibles and issues.

If one, were to, for example, consider Charles to be an interloper and if one was to consider that mankind is on a threshold of some sort --and-- to consider that the Mayan acceleration is about to occur in some fashion (this does not need to be a theme/component -or even be real- but may be, who knows)..then.... this whole thing may have been an attempt to grab the ring in some fashion and divert a coming block of energy in 'man' overall and steer it elsewhere and into other areas. to grab the energy and run it into the ditch, so to speak. I've told him that if he is 'for real' (according to the giving of veracity to the advertised components), then more power to him-on with it, etc. But the actions and conversations so far do not make that clear.

This was my main interest concerning the dark possibilities in who or what Charles may or may not be.

Let me be a bit more clear on that.

I have used the tool of the written word and the internet, for 12 years, now..to try and communicate with people..to help them get past their inner blocks. The inner blocks that spear and stab me, that fight with me and fight with them..as they try and get past their inner blocks on their own consciousness unfolding.

I have been doing battle with the the entire stew of beings and systems that you speak of....for as long as the internet and this form of communication has existed. Ie, the communication that we are involving ourselves with..right now. In these very posts.

Somewhere in the area of, now..about 30,000(?) pages of interactive communications of that exact nature. Some not specifically, but overall..that has been the underlying intent and direction. Almost without exception, every post has been an act of banging on their internal door and asking them to come out and play... or a question of asking if anyone is home.

I am as about as honed a warrior in those areas as you are likely to meet. For the most part, this is the first forum I have gone to that is not a total war zone, with regard to even raising the subject or tone of 'mental opening' as an issue or thought. One where my posts are existing -without direct ridicule. I have never 'preached to the pew' and this is a change for me to be here on a forum where my input is appreciated.

[Mystique]

In my experience..the closer one gets to 'decloaking' the underlying self..which will revert to a self connected to all...the closer one gets..paradoxically..the stronger the sense that one tends to emanate a version of singular truth as held by that individual mind.

In the end, all it is.... is the singular path that the individual has taken in the effort to shed their ego.

There is the path one takes.... but the road itself....is the common denominator.

A million ways to get to a universal truth.

Like herding cats, it is.

the trick, is to explain it in a universal language. There's the rub..as the path is meandering and entirely individual. It has to be individual as the given life that has cloaked these truths is individual and lies within the individual.

In the 'old' days,we had the mystery cults to help get people get past their individual issues. Apparently, if read closely enough, it appears that possibly Scientology, in it's original form (not it's current form), was an attempt to get that sort of understanding to western society.

We have versions of eastern mystery schools that have survived for millenia, so far...but their usefulness in a time where we need it fast and in larger groups..is somewhat of a limiting factor in this time and age.

I have been looking at the "shedding the ego" approach to the Psyche and I think it is important to make some distinctions.

We, by just being Eternal Spiritual Beings in a 3-D reality - with consciousness forming and riding along in bodies, need a face looking outwards (ego) and as well as a face looking inwards (Spirit) and a "nous," or bridge between the two (Soul).

We do not want to get rid of the outer face. We need it to filter and synthesize all the external stimuli.

What we are left with the "false ego" that is created as a result of terror, or a tear in the fabric between the three.

Because it is attached to the outer face, we cannot from the position of mind, "get rid of it" because it hears our plans and will cling, cloak, scratch and dig its' way into any mental crevice or disguise itself as our bestest friend, or savior ("I am doing this for your own protection"), it is just that it is ill equipped to doing anything but protection through projection - like a shard of a mirror deflecting the sunlight.

So, I am beginning to think that it does not serve us to try to sneak up on it and try to break its skinny little neck when we think it is not looking. It is a clever bastard - a motherless child.

Perhaps it is wiser to not try to fix it or change it, but allow it to Be and look at what it is so terrified of - right in the face. Have that little-Man-to-Man-look-ya-in-the-eye kind of experience.

Kind of like walking across the room and turning on the light switch instead of bumping around in the dark trying to wrestle a shadow in the darkly lit room.

[Icecold]

I think within a few weeks Avalon discussions forum is going to be reduced to about 10 regular posters, the rest will say adios, except for the lurkers who won't dare post for fear of having their threads regularly hijacked.

I'd like to thank James Horak for showing patience in weathering the storm. Also I'd like to thank the members who showed courtesy to James and responded in a civilised manner to his valuable input and view.

I'd kick the rest to the curb.

Cheers.

[Jayke]

This thread has been a great demonstration of how to split conciousness, those who ask questions and seek a deeper understanding on one side and those who just open to the flow and share experiences on the other, any conflict could have been avoided with a simple explanation of mr horaks terminology, anyone can start a thread with a random combination of syntax and then just say 'explore'...but a game without parameters just descends into chaos too quickly.

Thanks for the video ahkenaten, that will help those of us who have never heard of mr horak before catch up on his point of view so we can return to the thread and contribute in a more insightful and positive manner

[lightblue]

carmody
If one, were to, for example, consider Charles to be an interloper and if one was to consider that mankind is on a threshold of some sort --and-- to consider that the Mayan acceleration is about to occur in some fashion (this does not need to be a theme/component -or even be real- but may be, who knows)..then.... this whole thing may have been an attempt to grab the ring in some fashion and divert a coming block of energy in 'man' overall and steer it elsewhere and into other areas. to grab the energy and run it into the ditch, so to speak


harnessing of energies is not permitted ...:no: l

.

[jorr lundstrom]

I and Maria are at the same point as James, on the treshold. We dont feel welcome here anymore.

Just a lot of silly games played. We came after the Charles- video, because we imagined some of

practical value was about to happen. But now Charles seem to have disappear

into thin air and I see the forum split in at least two groups, the disclosers and the spiritual.

The disclosers are intrested in wots out there and

the spiritual are interested in wots within. And they fight all the time.

And the mods are watching. And Bill says no more carrots because we have

more important things to discuss. Wot? When someone tries to lift the mood

by joking, that becomes a problem. Are we supposed to sit seriously and wait

for Godo? This is really sad. I know that a lot of Avalonians went to Richards forum

last wednesday and thereafter. And we read that the neophytes was left here. I dont

get that, neophyte to wot? I see myself as newbeginner in all aspects of life all the

time, but neophyte naaaaaaaaaa. Can someone explain wot this mess is supposed

to look like? Please............................................ ...........

[greybeard]

I think its fairly well known that a consistent use of alcohol reduces the brain to the size of a billiard ball, in some extreme cases.....a walnut. CONSCIOUSNESS

I've always been a tea totaller. Stayed away from the poison. Creates irreparable damage. A RIFT IN TIME.

Any one like a slice of :pizza: ? There is a PARALLEL here somewhere.

Yes that is true, well almost
Thats why when I had stopped for good I took a MENSA exam and to my surprise I qualified for membership.
its easy to knock people who have had a killer illness they did not ask for and actually overcame it through hard work and soul searching.
I dont care because Im sober

When a guest on a forum says that there is vegetation and fungi on the thread only those with a walnut size brain will not hear alarm bells
and when long term members are put down even more alarm bells should ring.
Not me Im big enough to take it.
This forum is about rational intelligent debate.
Not about kicking people to the kerb who do not agree with your perspective

James left some what rapidly considering very few posts actually were not yes sir ones.

have you actually looked at the last few moments of the video as suggested?

Anyway freedom of choice.

It recently became your forum so appreciate what you found here.

Dont abuse those who contributed to making it what it is.

Chris

[modwiz]

In my experience..the closer one gets to 'decloaking' the underlying self..which will revert to a self connected to all...the closer one gets..paradoxically..the stronger the sense that one tends to emanate a version of singular truth as held by that individual mind.

In the end, all it is.... is the singular path that the individual has taken in the effort to shed their ego.

There is the path one takes.... but the road itself....is the common denominator.

A million ways to get to a universal truth.

Like herding cats, it is.

the trick, is to explain it in a universal language. There's the rub..as the path is meandering and entirely individual. It has to be individual as the given life that has cloaked these truths is individual and lies within the individual.

In the 'old' days,we had the mystery cults to help get people get past their individual issues. Apparently, if read closely enough, it appears that possibly Scientology, in it's original form (not it's current form), was an attempt to get that sort of understanding to western society.

We have versions of eastern mystery schools that have survived for millenia, so far...but their usefulness in a time where we need it fast and in larger groups..is somewhat of a limiting factor in this time and age.

The other purpose of mystery schools was insuring that people were there to grow and learn by weeding out those who were not worthy of it. The martial arts schools traditionally followed the same pattern only teaching worthy students of proper temperament. Although I am sure the wealthy potential students had parents that could make a teachers' life hellish if they declined a princeling. I am also sure there were teachers who refused and paid a dear price.

The final point being that proper conveyance of wisdom is best conducted in a "noise" free environment.

[jorr lundstrom]

I think its fairly well known that a consistent use of alcohol reduces the brain to the size of a billiard ball, in some extreme cases.....a walnut. CONSCIOUSNESS

I've always been a tea totaller. Stayed away from the poison. Creates irreparable damage. A RIFT IN TIME.

Any one like a slice of :pizza: ? There is a PARALLEL here somewhere.

Yes that is true, well almost
Thats why when I had stopped for good I took a MENSA exam and to my surprise I qualified for membership.
its easy to knock people who have had a killer illness they did not ask for and actually overcame it through hard work and soul searching.
I dont care because Im sober

When a guest on a forum says that there is vegetation and fungi on the thread only those with a walnut size brain will not hear alarm bells
and when long term members are put down even more alarm bells should ring.
Not me Im big enough to take it.
This forum is about rational intelligent debate.
Not about kicking people to the kerb who do not agree with your perspective

James left some what rapidly considering very few posts actually were not yes sir ones.

have you actually looked at the last few moments of the video as suggested?

Anyway freedom of choice.

It recently became your forum so appreciate what you found here.

Dont abuse those who contributed to making it what it is.

Chris

Are you serious. Tell me you are joking. Please. Good luck to you in

the foxes burrow. I wish you a jolly good time. Really. Love Jorr

[Hughe]

It's complete nonsense there is truth that everybody needs to agree with or even understand.
I give one example.
Grade 1 math teaches 1 + 1 = 2.
It's just one phenomenon in nature.
1 + 1 = 0 exists
1 + 1 = 3 exists.
... many possibilities ...
Suppose the educators are real professionals and does know what the education is about.
1 + 1 = ? (possibilities)
Fixed idea, fixed law induces subliminal conditioning of human potential.

Because TPTB won't allow public education liberate human potential.
Even in university classes, brilliant students in many occasions miserably treated by the professors.

The finest of all educational institute is a military boot camp. Thank you. I've been there once.
It turns sane healthy adults into mere killing machines who take order from the higher rank without questions. They are the living meatballs of TPTB.

Truth is just a mutual agreement between parties.
I'm sorry to say mainstream sciences has been failed on me.

I disregards some of researchers who keep saying "Everything is illusion." neither.

I prefer to swallow anything that gives me deeper understanding of reality.

[Mystique]

When we look at the progression of this thread, we can see how split consciousness operates.

Someone else here pointed it out (sorry too lazy to find it), one direction points inward- searching through the mental drawers looking for the key to the jewelry box, and the other towards the outside - looking for closets with skeletons in them.

Meanwhile, Rome is burning and people are out looking for witches to burn.

Which path leads to the paradise we want our grandchildren to inherit?

Isn't the the balance of the Universe at stake here?

No matter who is right, we could all end up as star dust if we don't collectively figure this out.

When my granddaughter sits in a bench in a FEMA camp, waiting for the gas tanks to fire up asking me what I was doing when the troopers were putting their boots on, I don't want to say, "on the internet masturbating my intellect."

(I am not referring to anyone on this thread in particular, I am just talking in generalities.)

I am certain that all of us here know what it will take to raise the frequency here high enough to emerge a new insight, if we could all point our collective attention/intention towards the center of this circle.

[Carmody]

personal surrender of my ego. Ie, making it let go.

It is so tied to me it forces me to externalize everything, so it can keep it's position in life.

You also desire an example. An example of someone stepping into the line of fire.

I have evidence of receiving my own chemtrails, and well, plenty of other things.

I have no cover or public persona to protect me.

I've put my ass, my life, my future, everything that I was, am..and will be.... personally and completely ---on the line.

Everyone else needs to do the same.

[Carmody]

You can do simple things.

like a 100,000+ man march on an underground base.

If it wants to hide..then drag it's ass out into the street and the light.

If that is considered to be too radical, then commit to marching on some of these financial offices that seem to be at the core of these issues.

Get of your duff..and get it done.

It really is that simple.

If someone creates the rally call and begins it as an organized motion, I would like to think that people will come.

Think about it.

You know. Commit.

Be the change you want to see.

Otherwise ...nothing will happen.

[modwiz]

When we look at the progression of this thread, we can see how split consciousness operates.

Someone else here pointed it out (sorry too lazy to find it), one direction points inward- searching through the mental drawers looking for the key to the jewelry box, and the other towards the outside - looking for closets with skeletons in them.

Meanwhile, Rome is burning and people are out looking for witches to burn.

Which path leads to the paradise we want our grandchildren to inherit?

Isn't the the balance of the Universe at stake here?

No matter who is right, we could all end up as star dust if we don't collectively figure this out.

When my granddaughter sits in a bench in a FEMA camp, waiting for the gas tanks to fire up asking me what I was doing when the troopers were putting their boots on, I don't want to say, "on the internet masturbating my intellect."

(I am not referring to anyone on this thread in particular, I am just talking in generalities.)

I am certain that all of us here know what it will take to raise the frequency here high enough to emerge a new insight, if we could all point our collective attention/intention towards the center of this circle.

You are referring to Jorr Lundstrom one who is leaving. Here is his post.
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?15605-Exploring-the-Split-Consciousness-and-its-Parallel-to-Rifts-in-Time&p=167769&viewfull=1#post167769

[Mystique]

James, I was listening to your video referenced here, again, and you say "You can make hell in a second, but there is no reason to punish the immortal soul. Every sentient being is precious, precious to the Universe, and it self perfects."

When it comes to the "monsters" you want to get "rid of", are you referring to the controlling ETs behind the power elite, or both?

The controlling ETs, the way I understand them, cannot ascend beyond the 5th dimension because they have violated the law of non-interference. But, they can still if they choose turn their path around agree to clean up their karma. Am I right on that?

Aren't the power elite, as sentient, precious to the Universe and have the ability to self perfect?

From what I understand, their childhoods make mine look like I was Barbie picking out clothes to wear to impress Ken.


I am seeking to garner the courage in myself to consider the possibility that there is a spark of light in them, however dim. But now that I wrote that, it is kind of like depending on someone else to have a flashlight bright enough so I can find my car keys in the dark.

It makes more sense to just recharge the batteries in my own, keep them charged, find the key and start my own engine.

I just wish that it felt like it was enough. I keep wanting to look out the window to see what the hell "they" are doing "out there."

[Carmody]

The entire point here, in my understanding, is to elevate the human body as a vehicle that can be further used at a higher level ---than it is right now.

If the human vehicle for soul inclusion does not advance from where it is right now, then it very well may be banished to the dustbin and a new one of different design may rise up on this planet. One scenario, it is.

Fear is the deepest and most hidden instinctual behavior that the human body has within it. The other side of that coin is self sacrifice to keep the vehicle (overall) alive for the future (sacrifice for children, etc).

The weapon of choice, right now,and in the past is the one of fear manipulation..at the same time that the fear of loss of all is being withheld so the realization of 'loss of all and children' is not confronted.. and the ego fear for the self is the only fear engaged -in the given human.

Therefore no action to preserve the future is taken --as the fear and fate of the future is kept at a distance. It is always kept as an unknown. Otherwise..you'd damn well do something!!

That is the game, in nutshell. All good games are very basic.

Unless you use your head to get over the fear of risking yourself, all this humanity thing will come to naught.

I understood this thing as a child. What happened to everyone else?

[bashi]

And Bill says no more carrots because we have

more important things to discuss.

Wot? When someone tries to lift the mood

by joking, that becomes a problem

Can someone explain wot this mess is supposed

to look like? Please............................................ ...........

Well, let me lift your mood and explain:
A truckload full of carrots was supposed to get dumped into AVALON, thinking it is a sales place for it.
The bunnys came in to check the quality and found heaps of rats under it. So they moved in swiftly, before too much got spoilt.


http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/8139/december20063002255.jpg (http://img708.imageshack.us/i/december20063002255.jpg/)


The truck belongs to one Mr. JH, a famous carrot-pusher. More is not known of his own work.

When the rabbit arrived, JH took to the heels, but the carrot salesmen were self-elected
grail-knights and went for a fight.

So here some live-coverage from the action: (Carefull, GRAPHIC !)


pmu5sRIizdw

Now the resourceful violet bunny has seized the truck and carries the carrots to his cave,
where the toxic load will be neutralized by his stomach acid:


http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/5056/bunnytruck.jpg (http://img46.imageshack.us/i/bunnytruck.jpg/)

The remaining sales-men should not be so sad, they still have the stick to chew on...

:laugh:

[Mystique]

That is very elegant Carmody. Thank you for that.

What do I do with the terror held in my body, and the tear held in my mind?

[Mystique]

personal surrender of my ego. Ie, making it let go.

It is so tied to me it forces me to externalize everything, so it can keep it's position in life.

You also desire an example. An example of someone stepping into the line of fire.

I have evidence of receiving my own chemtrails, and well, plenty of other things.

I have no cover or public persona to protect me.

I've put my ass, my life, my future, everything that I was, am..and will be.... personally and completely ---on the line.

Everyone else needs to do the same.

I am assuming you mean the false ego. How, specifically, do I surrender? What are the steps?

How do you construct the surrender? I know the words, I just do not know how to construct the idea with my mind because my ego hijacked it.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Carmody, you have evidence you were specifically targeted in the chemtrail attack? That really, really sucks.

[Mystique]

I have every reason to believe that "they" strategically calculated for every reaction they think we can come up with, including time jumping into the future and super computer predictions.

It seems wiser to allow the space for something new to emerge within us individually, and within us collectively, that is driven by the force fueling the nano particles of bodies.

The challenge is to clear the decks of our mind in order to hear that intuitive voice clearly enough to respond to the call.

So, the question goes back to "how" to clear the decks.

I know the location of my ego, it is the internal dialogue in my head.

I suspect that in the evolution of the human species, the presence of the internal dialogue was not always the case.

How could you be in the jungle hunting prey - while a jaguar is tracking you, if you are busy talking to yourself about how pretty the ti leaves are when the sun sparkles off the dew?

Internal dialogue is counter-evolutionary.

If the internal dialogue = ego, then how do you give up the voice in your head?

And can we survive in the concrete jungle without it?

My ego says, "No" so I suspect "Yes," but I am not sure "how," and I am slightly terrified at the prospect of having no one to talk to in here.

[DevilPigeon]

The entire point here, in my understanding, is to elevate the human body as a vehicle that can be further used at a higher level ---than it is right now.

If the human vehicle for soul inclusion does not advance from where it is right now, then it very well may be banished to the dustbin and a new one of different design may rise up on this planet. One scenario, it is.

Fear is the deepest and most hidden instinctual behavior that the human body has within it. The other side of that coin is self sacrifice to keep the vehicle (overall) alive for the future (sacrifice for children, etc).

The weapon of choice, right now,and in the past is the one of fear manipulation..at the same time that the fear of loss of all is being withheld so the realization of 'loss of all and children' is not confronted.. and the ego fear for the self is the only fear engaged -in the given human.

Therefore no action to preserve the future is taken --as the fear and fate of the future is kept at a distance. It is always kept as an unknown. Otherwise..you'd damn well do something!!

That is the game, in nutshell. All good games are very basic.

Unless you use your head to get over the fear of risking yourself, all this humanity thing will come to naught.

I understood this thing as a child. What happened to everyone else?



personal surrender of my ego. Ie, making it let go.

It is so tied to me it forces me to externalize everything, so it can keep it's position in life.

You also desire an example. An example of someone stepping into the line of fire.

I have evidence of receiving my own chemtrails, and well, plenty of other things.

I have no cover or public persona to protect me.

I've put my ass, my life, my future, everything that I was, am..and will be.... personally and completely ---on the line.

Everyone else needs to do the same.

I am assuming you mean the false ego. How, specifically, do I surrender? What are the steps?

How do you construct the surrender? I know the words, I just do not know how to construct the idea with my mind because my ego hijacked it.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Carmody, you have evidence you were specifically targeted in the chemtrail attack? That really, really sucks.

Maybe this could be the basis of a new thread, in the 'spirituality' forum possibly....?

I personally would love to contribute to such a discussion, I think though that this thread has branched off somewhat from it's original aim (if there was one!)

Regards
Dave

[Jake]

James, Thank you for your wisdom and advice. I have a question... Have you ever had a fully conscious out of body experience? Otherwise known as an astral projection. I am aware of multiple aspects of self through my OBE experiences. Waking self/dreaming self/sleeping self/projecting self, etc... I have become aware that we exist in different realities, (physical and non-physical) simultaneously, yet many aspects are not aware of the others. The OBE has been a direct way for me to explore the multidemensional perspectives (at least, the best way we can:)).

Do you have OBEs? What is your take on the matter?
Jake...

[Mystique]

Maybe this could be the basis of a new thread, in the 'spirituality' forum possibly....?

I personally would love to contribute to such a discussion, I think though that this thread has branched off somewhat from it's original aim (if there was one!)

Regards
Dave

I thought the aim was to discuss split consciousness?

I discussed why it is split (terror), and what happens when it splits (tear in the Psyche).

And part of the split is making the distinction between ego... and false ego.

Now I am talking about what to do with the false ego.

I do not know how we discuss split consciousness without talking about spirituality, since that is what has been split away.

[DevilPigeon]

Maybe this could be the basis of a new thread, in the 'spirituality' forum possibly....?

I personally would love to contribute to such a discussion, I think though that this thread has branched off somewhat from it's original aim (if there was one!)

Regards
Dave

I thought the aim was to discuss split consciousness?

I discussed why it is split (terror), and what happens when it splits (tear in the Psyche).

And part of the split is making the distinction between ego... and false ego.

Now I am talking about what to do with the false ego.

I do not know how we discuss split consciousness without talking about spirituality, since that is what has been split away.

OK, that's cool, I was thinking purely from a practical perspective. The thread started out as per the title, then there seemed to be a branching away for several pages & now it seems to be back on track. I was thinking maybe the 'middle section' would detract.

[jorr lundstrom]

Nice to see one of the hijackers trying to hide among the carrots:whoo:

[DevilPigeon]

I thought the aim was to discuss split consciousness?

I discussed why it is split (terror), and what happens when it splits (tear in the Psyche).

And part of the split is making the distinction between ego... and false ego.

Now I am talking about what to do with the false ego.

I do not know how we discuss split consciousness without talking about spirituality, since that is what has been split away.

This subject fascinates me. I can't profess to have any answers, just my own musings fuelled mostly by enthusiasm.

Would you say that at a point in our past, there was just one harmonious ego? At what point did the perceived/actual split take place, but more importantly what caused such an action? I've a feeling you're correct in that you mention a split... Let me rephrase that, I don't know if there was a split, or whether an additional ego was somehow manifest. Whatever, the way I see things, there is a spiritual ego & an ego that has an apparent life of it's own. I'm assuming that this would equate with the false ego you mention?

How we get rid of it I'm not sure, and that is something that I would like guidance with. Is it getting rid of it, or maybe merging it back into just the one coherent wholeness of a single ego?

Also, I would love to know if there's a parallel between (an) ego & fear.... And would it be the case that the denial of fear would automatically suppress such an ego, or that the suppression of (an) ego would deny fear?

Dave

[Carmody]

Just so you people understand how important it is to get off your duff and act, to do something as important as what I proposed....

..I lost my internet connection.

In less than two minutes.

I received warning--- to not make such posts. They did that....by resetting my connection.

I just got back on line now.

[Carmody]

personal surrender of my ego. Ie, making it let go.

It is so tied to me it forces me to externalize everything, so it can keep it's position in life.

You also desire an example. An example of someone stepping into the line of fire.

I have evidence of receiving my own chemtrails, and well, plenty of other things.

I have no cover or public persona to protect me.

I've put my ass, my life, my future, everything that I was, am..and will be.... personally and completely ---on the line.

Everyone else needs to do the same.

I am assuming you mean the false ego. How, specifically, do I surrender? What are the steps?

How do you construct the surrender? I know the words, I just do not know how to construct the idea with my mind because my ego hijacked it.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Carmody, you have evidence you were specifically targeted in the chemtrail attack? That really, really sucks.

The thing in your head that shapes your words and creates the internal voice, that is not you. That is ego. That is body function. As it shapes the words and how they are formed, the body is thus..then in charge of your expression. Until you realize this.

The point of meditation is to shut that part of the body off. The part that creates images, and sound shaping and thus the internal voice - for you. That is the heart of split consciousness, one might say. You have an interpreter between the soul and the body. Ie... the part that is running the body in totality.

Part of going to the evolved human is to realize this and share with the body. But to cease letting the ego/body think or be in charge. The body really does not think, it is a mechanism -an animalistic- one for the spirit to occupy and utilize as a physical being--- a neural network of realization on the 3d plane. It has an autonomous system to keep it running so we can occupy it. It thinks it is alive and running the show. Like Rachel, in "Bladerunner" (film), it is about to get a rude awakening similar to when she found out that things are considerably different. (that she was a manufactured being with false memories)

This is an involved process and requires concentration...and time.

It will be the breaking of the biggest love affair you can imagine. Far bigger. So big it is, it is your entire 'existence', everything. All perception of all kinds will be at risk and floating..rudderless...as it is re-started to a new paradigm.

Which is why the process can be so shattering.

However, a call to getting things done on the ground is also there, at the same time.

[Intraphase]

I have every reason to believe that "they" strategically calculated for every reaction they think we can come up with, including time jumping into the future and super computer predictions.

It seems wiser to allow the space for something new to emerge within us individually, and within us collectively, that is driven by the force fueling the nano particles of bodies.

The challenge is to clear the decks of our mind in order to hear that intuitive voice clearly enough to respond to the call.

So, the question goes back to "how" to clear the decks.

I know the location of my ego, it is the internal dialogue in my head.

I suspect that in the evolution of the human species, the presence of the internal dialogue was not always the case.

How could you be in the jungle hunting prey - while a jaguar is tracking you, if you are busy talking to yourself about how pretty the ti leaves are when the sun sparkles off the dew?

Internal dialogue is counter-evolutionary.

If the internal dialogue = ego, then how do you give up the voice in your head?

And can we survive in the concrete jungle without it?

My ego says, "No" so I suspect "Yes," but I am not sure "how," and I am slightly terrified at the prospect of having no one to talk to in here.

A few powerful techniques.

Sorrow.

Set aside 10 minutes to cry each day, no more no less, just sit if you run out of tears. Provide a high quality tear cloth.
Using your two index fingers place them on or just below the lower bone of each eye socket close angled towards the nose and begin slow deep rhythmic breathing while recalling/picturing the sad event.

Anguish or terror.

Using your thumb, a pencil or a small hand crafted wand with a focus point on the end begin visualizing a traumatic event while slowly moving the wand in gentle random patterns and occasionally shaking the wand ever so slightly while moaning and sighing. The visual circuits blocking harmonization(50% of brain activity) and charge reduction in the neural networks are bypassed by the eyes following the focus object and they too are brought from high to medium to low voltage circuits of neural trees arranged in voltage networks.

I witnessed my stepfather yelling at my beloved Basset Hound who got very angry and walked away crossing the street while not thinking. I raised it from a pup and we spent 24 hrs a day together for eighteen month before the corner of the cars bumper struck him in the ribs with a side slap into the spinning wheels and then thrown clear to the curb. I can now visualize it while typing without a trace of emotion and only accurate visual recall. Yet my love and memories are as powerful of him as ever. He has left the spirit world and is actually a human now living next door to my old house, but that is his private business not to be discussed without telling his entire left story. Suffice to say those techniques when practiced/fiddled with until you get results are mega-powerful at releasing the emotional neural charges associated with sudden or repetitive long term trauma. Of course talking is essential to but for my particular personality type talking is sometimes a form of stalling.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5HRVz_bSqg


Book of Life Technique. Make a notebook.

Describe everyone you hurt and how
Describe everyone you helped and how
Describe everyone who hurt you and how
Describe everyone who helped you and how.

When it gets to painful in the hurt pages use the wand & tear fingers techniques and then spend some time on the help essays remembering friends and strangers you sacrificed for.

[torzbc]

Just so you people understand how important it is to get off your duff and act, to do something as important as what I proposed....

..I lost my internet connection.

In less than two minutes.

I received warning--- to not make such posts. They did that....by resetting my connection.

I just got back on line now.

Yes you are right...
ANYONE who is on the right track is monitored, whether they know it or not...

To have Moral Outrage at what is happening around us and the Moral Determination to do something about it, is something THEY can't win against....

[Carmody]

You can do simple things.

like a 100,000+ man march on an underground base.

If it wants to hide..then drag it's ass out into the street and the light.

If that is considered to be too radical, then commit to marching on some of these financial offices that seem to be at the core of these issues.

Get of your duff..and get it done.

It really is that simple.

If someone creates the rally call and begins it as an organized motion, I would like to think that people will come.

Think about it.

You know. Commit.

Be the change you want to see.

Otherwise ...nothing will happen.

that is the post that got me disconnected.

Like Woodstock, you might expect 50k..and end up with half a million.

when I received what appeared to be 'my own chemtrails' on Feb 9th, I suspect that I was supposed to freak out and start blathering on the forum.

Sorry to disappoint, but I did not. ;) Too bad. Sorry guys. Maybe next time.

Right after that, the electronic attacks went right through the roof. If you look at the 'Charles phenomena thread', check the dates of my posts.

It was like a case of helping someone across a barrier so they don't panic and loose it. As if the animals were 10 seconds away... and I could not show my distress or anything. Just help the person over the barrier. And the rest would roll out like it rolls out, whatever it's end. For if I panic then no one gets over the barrier. Poker face all the way.

I was so deep into the forum's situation... that if I lost my composure the forum would have been under considerably more risk. I had to keep it together and show..nothing. No change.

No choice. Get it?

PS...Also, I precog in some ways and that Charles and I became entangled there, for a bit, near the start of that whole thing. For a few days, I would get up and what HIS life was going to be for that coming day --was in my mind.

[bashi]

Just so you people understand how important it is to get off your duff and act, to do something as important as what I proposed....

..I lost my internet connection.

In less than two minutes.

I received warning--- to not make such posts. They did that....by resetting my connection.

I just got back on line now.

Yes you are right...
ANYONE who is on the right track is monitored, whether they know it or not...

To have Moral Outrage at what is happening around us and the Moral Determination to do something about it, is something THEY can't win against....

Hi torz,

people can be different than you might perceive them to be.
An attack can result into something positive, if the attack was meant to destroy the useless old, to make way for the good new.
The intention of the attack was to defend the valuable.
The process might be painful, but neccessary, like an amputation.
I understand that you suffered here greatly and that you therefore perceive some, including me, as "bad" people.
But our intention was honorable - not destructive.
I hereby apologize for any inner pain i might have caused you during this process.
You might not have noticed, but i didn`t meant to attack you personally.
I believe you are a wonderful human being with the intention to do good for all here on this forum.
Sincerely, i do.

Here something to soothe the pain:


01XImAvZR7U

[Ahkenaten]

In Taijiquan the warrior's goal is to blend movements with those of his opponents rather than resisting, thereby utilizing his opponents' energies against him - the battle may then be 'won' and balance is achieved. All is done with respect for the opponent from whom valuable lessons are learned and through whose actions life-force is re-balanced.

[jorr lundstrom]

You loose your life in dreaming

and your being in becoming


http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt81/sakasvattaja/Babajimparaply.jpg

[Mystique]

This subject fascinates me. I can't profess to have any answers, just my own musings fuelled mostly by enthusiasm.

Would you say that at a point in our past, there was just one harmonious ego? At what point did the perceived/actual split take place, but more importantly what caused such an action? I've a feeling you're correct in that you mention a split... Let me rephrase that, I don't know if there was a split, or whether an additional ego was somehow manifest. Whatever, the way I see things, there is a spiritual ego & an ego that has an apparent life of it's own. I'm assuming that this would equate with the false ego you mention? Dave

You know Dave, I hadn't really consider that, but now that you mention it, that makes perfect sense. You know how birds all seem to fly together like one flock of consciousness? Maybe we were so wired into the collective consciousness there were not the distinctions between them like there are now. Wow. That makes so much sense.

We had access to all the same knowledge, we telepathically communicated, and it is language that is the Great Separator.

Take language and the need to keep your thoughts private, and volia internal dialogue and the the way it keeps us in our own heads instead of in the collective mind.

That is brilliant! I think we are on to something!!

[Nortreb]

Could it be that the split occurred when the body became a third dimensional manefestation?

IMHO, there are alot of functions within the body that we do not have willed control over eg.(blood pressure, wound healing, heart beat) that may point to a higher consciousness that may be attained with deep breathing clean air and body control. The Yogic Vedic system, Chinese Medicine, Hermetic principles may be branches of a lost higher system of knowledge that was hidden from us in plain site.

Charles (Symbology and lost knowledge) and James (Gravity wave anomoly/retention of Helium) commentary pointed possibly in that direction. The left brain uses verbal instruction and the right brain uses sight instructions.

This was possibly missed with the conspiracy/reality TV mind set that took place here since January.

Could this be the symptom of using hidden knowledge hidden to control minds?

[torzbc]

Oh Nortreb... I really should be going out to get groceries, the cupboards are bare in our house!! But your questions is paramount to our problems but before I do, I want to point you in the direction of an answer...
Go to the blog and read all you can about the Moonshafts and their control by the Moon. post it here for others if you think it will help people come to some clarity...
There is also another problem with the moon..... "they" found ( or were informed ) the central control system in the moon and they just couldn't help but fiddle with advanced technology they have NO idea the consequences of..!!!!!
Tag words...

Moon Shaft (http://www.moonshaft.net/caves.html)
Antonin Horak - James is the image of Antonin
Tatra Mountains.
http://www.virtuallystrange.com/cptr.us/tatra.html

Mankinds arrival on Earth (http://emvsinfo.blogspot.com/2010/09/conversations-with-james-horak-on-144.html)
Interview with Kevin Smith about the Moonshafts (http://emvsinfo.blogspot.com/2010/09/james-horak-speaks-to-kevin-smith-about.html)

Wandering Moon Syndrome (http://emvsinfo.blogspot.com/2010/11/earth-changes-and-moon.html)

Lunar Anomalies indicate an Artificial Moon (http://keelynet.com/unclass/luna.htm)

that should keep anyone busy for a few hours...
If you need help or clarification, I will be back later, please just ask.. but DO go away and READ this info, it has taken me a year to collate to clarity... It's all there.

[momcat]

:angel:Torzbc just wanted to say thank you so much for staying on forum to help us !

[Mystique]

I just wanted to say publicly, after everything transpired with James leaving, I apologize if I had misunderstood James and directed his comments to myself when they may have not been intended to do so. I apologized to James, and forwarded one to Torzbc as well. I think, in hindsight, I should have brought this up after Modwiz' post - it may, or may not have, changed the direction of the thread.

Probably not, considering some have it out for James in a way I was not aware of. I never intended to be a part of anything that would discredit him. I only wanted my questions answered.

I think Modwiz was right though, somehow I got stirred up and up popped what was hidden underneath in my subconscious and I got to see and write about who I am and where I come from in a new and powerful way. Trying to bring a healing to the split in my consciousness by writing and asking questions helped me receive a new perspective.

Thank you to everyone who contributed to that experience.

It is interesting to reflect on, that not only are our repressed emotions and negative experiences held down in our subconscious minds, but also the power, love, trust, respect and beauty we have been afraid to share for fear of being seen as weak, naive and gullible, or getting targeted as lacking substance.

I think that is more visible now that there is so much mistrust and suspicion as a result of the suspected influx of distractors on the site. Many are afraid to support people now for fear they may seem to be "taken in" and "duped" or accused of following someone blindly.

It adds deeper to the split. We have the inner split - within our own minds, and we are seeing how that operates outwardly - being split amongst each other as if we are supposed to divide in camps - for or against a Messenger, or Whistleblower.

I still hold out that there is a way to bring this together both from the inside and the outside in a way that points in the same direction. As hidden agendas progress, our lives, and our freedom now depend on it.

Has it occurred to anyone that except for computer infiltration, what we have to offer here is for EVERY human? Maybe if we can get out of the search and destroy mode and instead hold fast to pointing ourselves in the same direction, en mass, we can literally change this tide and move together with such force that eventually even those who are fighting the hardest against it will eventually move in that direction as well.

After all, THEIR lives depend on it too.

Where else in their psyop worlds would they have that opportunity?

I think we need to be more strategic in our approach to this and agree on the direction most agreed upon by all - beyond survival.

[Mystique]

Oh Nortreb... I really should be going out to get groceries, the cupboards are bare in our house!! But your questions is paramount to our problems but before I do, I want to point you in the direction of an answer...
Go to the blog and read all you can about the Moonshafts and their control by the Moon. post it here for others if you think it will help people come to some clarity...
There is also another problem with the moon..... "they" found ( or were informed ) the central control system in the moon and they just couldn't help but fiddle with advanced technology they have NO idea the consequences of..!!!!!
Tag words...

Moon Shaft (http://www.moonshaft.net/caves.html)
Antonin Horak - James is the image of Antonin
Tatra Mountains.
http://www.virtuallystrange.com/cptr.us/tatra.html

Mankinds arrival on Earth (http://emvsinfo.blogspot.com/2010/09/conversations-with-james-horak-on-144.html)
Interview with Kevin Smith about the Moonshafts (http://emvsinfo.blogspot.com/2010/09/james-horak-speaks-to-kevin-smith-about.html)

Wandering Moon Syndrome (http://emvsinfo.blogspot.com/2010/11/earth-changes-and-moon.html)

Lunar Anomalies indicate an Artificial Moon (http://keelynet.com/unclass/luna.htm)

that should keep anyone busy for a few hours...
If you need help or clarification, I will be back later, please just ask.. but DO go away and READ this info, it has taken me a year to collate to clarity... It's all there.

Thank you Torzbc for the links. I will check them out.

I hope you are not upset with me for any of my posts here. I have the utmost respect for you and James and your work.

I know that because of the intimate way you know James and his mind, you would want to protect him. As you should.

[araucaria]

Jung has an interesting story in Memories, Dreams, Reflections which has some relevance here. As a young boy, he was admiring the cathedral in the beautiful weather, and thinking of God on his throne up in heaven, when he stopped short before the next thought came into his mind. He made himself almost ill for several days before deciding that God wanted him to have this dreadful thought.

It was of an enormous turd coming down from under God’s throne to smash the cathedral. This is God’s incredible way of explaining through demonstration and sharing that any kind of anal retention, including the rejection of sinful thoughts, is not a good idea. Defecation is a process whereby what is known by the negative term of $-h-i-t is only negative when kept inside, but take on a positive value – fertilizing manure – when brought out into the light of day. It is merely undigested food that can be recycled until it reaches the stage when it again becomes delicious food. Nothing is ever completely digestible, and the indigestible, like a catalyst, is part of the overall process like fibre comes with protein.

It is not to be stuck in duality to operate freely in this dynamic, dialectical process; it is when the ‘all is one’ thing is turned into ‘I am all that exists’ – me and my $-h-i-t that is. At one level, ‘I am all that exists’ is palpably false. So the message is just relax folks, even God likes to experience that very human emotion, relief.

[torzbc]

:angel:Torzbc just wanted to say thank you so much for staying on forum to help us !

It's ALL I ever wanted to do, I hate getting into arguments, there is no need and no time. The info James has to share with us is astounding, it changes EVERYTHING we have ever been taught but NOT in a fearful way, in a way that brings AWE to the mind and a quickening of the heart that there IS something worth fighting for and death is never an end only the road to awe...
What we do here, how we treat others matter well to the soul upon death..



Thank you Torzbc for the links. I will check them out.

I hope you are not upset with me for any of my posts here. I have the utmost respect for you and James and your work.

I know that because of the intimate way you know James and his mind, you would want to protect him. As you should.

You have given me no reason to be upset with you, I am just like every one else... a mother of 3 wonderful kids, a woman who has had her heart broken and recently too, due to my need to find the truth with regards the NWO.. I worry just as much as every other person about what the hell is going on on this planet but...
I found in James reasons for all of this and the answers were staring me straight in the face but there is SO MUCH disinfo and riddles within riddles out there deliberately to confuse and exasperate...
They don't WANT people to reach any modicum of clarity or we would turn on them and tear them to pieces... preferably when they have ALL gone into their rat holes...
I have never found this with James and I only wanted to share with others what he had helped me Self-Discover.. but as you have all seen... when people get too close to the truth, they send out the hounds to gnaw on the bones, it is NOT the first time it has happened to us all and it won't be the last.
I'll stick around but I am looking for work, just like most others... need to feed my children.

[Mystique]

:angel:Torzbc just wanted to say thank you so much for staying on forum to help us !

It's ALL I ever wanted to do, I hate getting into arguments, there is no need and no time. The info James has to share with us is astounding, it changes EVERYTHING we have ever been taught but NOT in a fearful way, in a way that brings AWE to the mind and a quickening of the heart that there IS something worth fighting for and death is never an end only the road to awe...
What we do here, how we treat others matter well to the soul upon death..



Thank you Torzbc for the links. I will check them out.

I hope you are not upset with me for any of my posts here. I have the utmost respect for you and James and your work.

I know that because of the intimate way you know James and his mind, you would want to protect him. As you should.

You have given me no reason to be upset with you, I am just like every one else... a mother of 3 wonderful kids, a woman who has had her heart broken and recently too, due to my need to find the truth with regards the NWO.. I worry just as much as every other person about what the hell is going on on this planet but...
I found in James reasons for all of this and the answers were staring me straight in the face but there is SO MUCH disinfo and riddles within riddles out there deliberately to confuse and exasperate...
They don't WANT people to reach any modicum of clarity or we would turn on them and tear them to pieces... preferably when they have ALL gone into their rat holes...
I have never found this with James and I only wanted to share with others what he had helped me Self-Discover.. but as you have all seen... when people get too close to the truth, they send out the hounds to gnaw on the bones, it is NOT the first time it has happened to us all and it won't be the last.
I'll stick around but I am looking for work, just like most others... need to feed my children.

So, Torzbc, since James is not here and you a lot about what he thinks, what do you think is the most important thing we should know about what to do with our split consciousness?

What do you think he was intending to say about it on this thread?

[torzbc]

Can I answer that in the morning please... I am so tired now and it's late but it deserves a reply with a rested body and mind... I will try my best to tell you as I see it...

[Rocky_Shorz]

we read that the neophytes was left here. I dont

get that, neophyte to wot? I see myself as newbeginner in all aspects of life all the

time, but neophyte naaaaaaaaaa.

you never saw Neo fight? Great movie...


http://www.metacafe.com/watch/406169/the_matrix_reloaded_neo_vs_smith/

[Lifebringer]

A subconscious visit in another time, obtained or remembered by the subconscious and conscious mind. that recognition of where it's been before?
That's what it means to me.

[Lifebringer]

I heard about Delores Cannon. Guess now is as good a time to youtube her info, as any.. Got time spare anyway, got a writers block.

See you soon.
PS, are we in the sixth night yet on the mayan calendar?

Sure feels like it.

[slvrfx]

Yes. Sixth night when everything must be revealed. No stone unturned. "They can run but they can't hide".

7th day...Oct. 28, 2011.

Love Dolores Cannon. Her most amazing set of three books, "The Convoluted Universe", explains exactly what has been happening and where we're going.

[Mystique]

Someone referred me to a site that explains a lot about dualism: www.montalk.net

Under the section: Combative Dualism, he says:

When confronted by the fact that dark forces exist and are operative in your life and the world, something innocent within you dies. But that innocence is just naivete that had to go sooner or later, so good riddance. Still, something like the five-stages of grief can take place: denial (“Nope, not real.”), fear (“Oh my god!”), anger (“Sons of bitches!”), acceptance (“Nothing I can do about it…”), understanding (“Aha, now I see the bigger picture”). New Age wishful thinking is located in the first stage. Combative dualism is stuck at the fear and anger stages, where awareness of the problem is unaccompanied by higher understanding, a more balanced attitude, or awareness of the positive side of reality. Its center of gravity is the ego, and the ego’s idea of positive is whatever strokes, soothes, and feeds it.

Only through comprehensive awareness combined with a balanced attitude of positivity does the center of balance shift towards the heart of the soul, and only then through responsibility in your actions does the circuit finally complete and life turns around for the better. There is a difference between combative dualism and balanced dualism. I’m all for dualism, since the very existence of freewill must allow for the choice to respect or reject Creation and that necessarily establishes the positive and negative halves of the spiritual evolutionary ladder. The key is to be aware of both halves of the duality and how each fits into the greater whole. There is unity in the essence of duality, and duality in the expression of unity. Understanding this greater context gives you the needed perspicacity and wisdom to effectively deal with problems without loosing your spiritual footing. (italics and bold mine)

As this pertains to what is happening inside of us, on this forum, and on this thread, the point of focus - the direction to point our attention on is to the awareness that there are those who are against our conscious evolution (the main one resides in our own heads), and those seeking it. But in order to have free will, in the truest sense of the word, we need to come to the point where we accept that it implies both acceptance of our Source and rejection of it; acceptance of those of us seeking truth and those who want to distract from it, acceptance of the false ego, as well as acceptance of the healthy ego.

Understanding this leads to balanced dualism that will allow us to transcend to the next level of Unity Consciousness.

We cannot choose, then, one side or the other, but to accept both and move beyond.

[grannyfranny100]

James-

I am getting restless with this.
So here's my version of Exploring the Split Consciousness (left/right brain) and its Parallel to Rifts (hiccups) in Time.

What about the right versus left brain? I struggled for years of graduate school and spiritual books of the late forties, fifties and early sixties. It was so much frustrating intellectual gamesmanship.

Then I read an early book on Lucid Dreaming, popped into a snake dream (a phobia), grabbed the snake as he struck and he became a snake grasping his tail. The phobia wasn't fear of sex as all the left brain pop psychology types wanted to say. It was about claiming my creativity. And when I couldn't solve a design problem, I let my mind solve it while I slept.

This certainly seemed more natural the analytic verbiage of my everyday world. My adult life was spent living in a left brained world and upon retirement, I had a brain tuneup at Brain State Technologies and developed more brain synapses for my dormant creative nature.

IMO we make life harder with all this definition of terms and endless rummaging in our minds about the brutality of our childhoods and the woo-woo of our past lives. I look forward to a change away from all of this.

Can you address some of this in a more common manner like your blipper filled videos and by your example, encourage the posters to drop their ****-filled drawers into a more light-hearted, playful, genuinely hopeful questioning?

I really like an old saying I read: live life with all the seriousness of a child at play. I don't think that somber posts prove more intention of learning from your wisdom.

Thanks for appearing on Kevin Smith and I am glad you are here.

Granny Franny

[Hughe]

Quantum Mechanics says information from a particle will travel every direction in time (past, future, present). Furthermore, any given moment, a particle has infinite potential to create many different timelines. I had really hard time to visualize it. One day an image popped out. When a particle (rock) drops on quiet lake water, it creates waves moving outwards all directions. Imagine the ripples are forming 3D spheres. Above the water direction is future, below the surface is past.

Whatever events happen in this universe as interconnected since the beginning, it has to affect every particle at some level and degree.

Split conscious means human can have multiple awareness at the same time. We have two eyes on the face. Just imagine, having one eye on the back, another on top of the head. Then, we will see objects from three directions.

Sprinter conscious (by Doroles Cannon's term) is equal to the nonlocal property of particle in Quantum Theories. A particle exists many different places: other time, dimension, physical locations on present time. And, there are invisible barriers within collective consciousness (universal mind, informational field, all talks the same.) like shells. There are many layers of collective mind that conscious enters into. A people bounded, national bounded, Earth bounded, and on and on. Whichever you go in, you will access the information and interact with beings.

[blackgaius34]

Is it possible this split-consciousness is not so much a split, but rather the "forgetting" of the connection we have directly to the Source Of All and that the reunification we're talking about is the remembrance of this? It occurs to me after reading this entire thread--no small task mind you--that all sides (conspiracy, spiritualists) are actually talking about the same thing.

Consider Genesis where in the first chapter it describes the creation of Adam on the sixth day. Then on the 7th God rested. Then AFTER THAT, when the Earth was covered in mist, it describes God fashioning the physical body of Adam from the elements of the Earth. This jives somewhat with the Icke/Mutwe tale of how man was split into genders at that point in history by genetic meddling. It also jives with the idea that Adamkind in fact did not originate on this world, perhaps only our body did and that original body was a UNIFIED one until the genetic rape occurred and the genders split. I think that a soul that suddenly found itself inhabiting a body that was entirely restricted to 5-senses, with its overwhelming physical "needs", cut off from the pure energy of the universe might go slightly batty, retreat into catatonic states...or develop a split personality that is completely unaware (or perhaps terrified) of the fact that it's really only a fragment of something far more powerful? There are clearly forces at work that want to keep things this way, which is why we're ALL here right?

I look at the body as genetic computer. The hardware is the DNA. The operating system that runs on it is the Ego which does all manner of things in the background we aren't even aware of to keep they hardware running. The one at the keyboard is the consciousness. Now picture a virus (all the junk and crap we're taught and fed to be afraid of, the physical sensations that lead to addiction, religion, chemtrails, conspiracy theories, mass media) infecting that system. You don't notice at first and everything seems normal, but one thing after another starts to give you the odd feeling something's not right. It's slower, or isn't saving files. Then one day you wake up and you realize this is not how it's meant to be at all. The struggle then is to purge that virus and regain full control of the system...and then to realize you don't even need the damn computer or its Ego since it's only feeding you a limited view of reality in the first place. Or if you get really good at it, you can build your own more stable machine driven completely by consciousness. These are the paths open to us.

[torzbc]

In order to equate our planet and the human beings upon it to our current situation we must think in the third person observer perspective. As an example, imagine a man (A) stood in a field looking upon a scene he wants to paint but he wants to paint himself (A) within the picture, so he removes that first person perspective and expands his mental view to the second person perspective (B) so that he is now painting himself (A) within the canvas from the second person perspective (B). Then we take this to the third person perspective and have the artist remove himself three times from the original scenery. So (C) is painting (B) and the scenery, onto the canvas, upon which is painted A and B. I hope I explained that in a way that can be understood.

A – Man stood painting just the scenery..
B – Man paints himself within the canvas, painting the scenery.
C – Man stood in the original scenery, painting himself and the scenery into the canvas B who is also within the canvas with his original painting A.
This is the third person perspective.
Here is an image to simplify my understanding.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/411QYrRLEFL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

A is the conscious mind when we are awake and what we experience as reality and life in all it’s glory…
B is the Sub Conscious Mind and is released from the conscious mind when we sleep and is able to travel time to any point past, present and future. However, upon waking the subconscious mind B is shut out and the conscious mind A comes back into effect.
C is the Unified Mind, where A and B are connected and not divided and is able to have access to everything instantly.
This is how I explain divided consciousness.
All children are born with Unified Consciousness, their minds are NOT split until they reach a certain age where they are taught by us what is right and what is wrong. Of course over a period of time and with repeated entrainments the mind becomes split..

The reason for this split originally was to do with the gravity wave that the planet observes with it's moon.
When the moon was placed in orbit around our planet, there were 144 Moonshaft engines that were placed deep within the Earth's crust to constantly adjust the gravitic wave that they both adhere to. When it was realised that there was a problem and the gravity wave was not constant, an important element to Unified Consciousness, Helium, was unable to be retained to the planets atmosphere.
At the time, the race with the knowledge to rectify this problem were no longer able to help and a certain element of Humans saw many advantages to minds becoming split and this has continued to this point in our "Time".

If any one wants to further this knowledge, I gave links in this post that will enable you to understand. http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?15605-Exploring-the-Split-Consciousness-and-its-Parallel-to-Rifts-in-Time&p=168486&viewfull=1#post168486

The references taken here are from a copy of J.W.Dunne's book I have - The Serial Universe. I think it can be found on scribe but I am not 100% sure. A search on the net would probably give a more up to date outline of the nature of Consciousness.
Hope that explains what you were looking for.

[Jayke]

Blackgaius, great metaphor, very concise...will keep an eye out for more of your posts :)

Torz, that's a great explanation, thanks for going through things to clear that up for us, much appreciated
there is still one thing that's left a bit unclear though...what are the rifts in time James was referring to in the title of the thread?

[Whitehaze]

The conscious mind tends to ignore the subconscious mind. The subconscious mind knows what is right and what is wrong. The conscious mind thinks it knows better. The subconscious mind is where truth resides. The conscious mind is the trickster.

This is the conflict within.

[Jayke]

The first book i read on huna said that the shamans of old knew about the split mind as far back as 50,000 years, probably even further when you consider james information.
they said we have 3 souls... the conscious, the subconscious and the super-concious or A, B and C as in Torz example.

There is no seperation between the 3 IMO, just like an iceberg...only the tip of the iceberg floats above the water, the rest is submerged in the ocean of consciousness

[Mystique]

Elegant model you represented blackgaius34. Interesting insight Hughe.

Great explanation torzbc. Thank you for continuing this thread with such delicious food for thought.

I think the plot thickens as language developed.

First we had a direct experience of, say, an "antelope". Then we gave that antelope a word using a sound that was connected to the antelope.

We then drew a picture of the antelope - a pictograph of the direct experience. Then symbols that represented the pictograph, but the symbols still held part of the shape or form of the pictograph.

Later the symbols became more abstracted into letters, and then the words from those letters were even more abstracted until we get antelope becoming "Antilocapridae as a family of Artidactyls".

A mind holding all these abstractions, of representations of symbols of pictographs of direct experiences, is not only numerous times removed from those direct experiences it is describing to itself, but is now vulnerable to believing the abstractions are real "The scientific experts know more about this than I do" and we doubt the validity of our own direct experiences in life - "that couldn't be an EMV near the sun because if they were real the Scientists would tell us".

And as a result we become afraid to tell anyone what we experienced with our own eyes for fear of it being called "woo woo".

[Mystique]

torzbc - I'll take some time to refer to your links now

[torzbc]

Jayke, even I have not been able to piece together properly into a mind picture what James has mentioned about rifts in time...
I will ask him to go over it with me and when I do, you will all have my reply. But please be patient, the situation I am in with regards my ex partner and the house just got a lot worse and things are not looking good.
As much as I would spend ALL my time speaking about these mind expanding topics with others of like minds, things we all know will benefit all of humanity, If I don't find paid employment I will have no-where to live for myself and my kids... some men can be A holes, not all, just some.

For the benefit of all the people here who have asked questions with open minds, have gone away and done some research and then come back with more details to add to the concepts they already had, I have written an article and just posted it on the blog. If any one wants, I can post it here but I wouldn't want to be accused of sensationalising myself or James at the expense of Avalon, as some "other" members have accused us of.

So go read it first, if you think it will help, someone else please post it, not me.... you have my permission, I am the author and many will read it and it will explain a few things.

Thanks, you guys are great... not everyone here is horrible to good, honest people, only the ones who don't want this information to be known.......... ;)

[blackgaius34]

I just read and commented your post Torz. GREAT STUFF! You've helped solidify a few points for me that I hadn't yet gone far enough to consider.
As far as things at home, keep your thoughts on your situation positive!!!!!! Stay focused. KNOW that you'll be ok and things WILL work out for the best for you. If it means we won't have the benefit of your glowing presence for a while we will understand and patiently await your return.

As to a possibility with Rifts in time, perhaps James means how "time flies when you're having fun"? As I've been trying to increase my awareness I am coming to the understanding that how we experience time appears to be directly linked to our moods/thoughts from moment to moment. If we ascribe to the idea that there is no time and that everything is actually happening at once then perhaps this is what we're given to ponder?

[RAKMEiSTER]

ill only have a goo, when you guys/girls/man&woman seem to be able to add/explain/addonto , -+- in the hole vs the 2sides brain vs 3rd eye. in the context were allready heading
till then
greets

RA KESH

[DevilPigeon]

.
.
But please be patient, the situation I am in with regards my ex partner and the house just got a lot worse and things are not looking good.
As much as I would spend ALL my time speaking about these mind expanding topics with others of like minds, things we all know will benefit all of humanity, If I don't find paid employment I will have no-where to live for myself and my kids... some men can be A holes, not all, just some.
.
.


Torz

Thank you for all your information.

Focus on your personal situation, get that sorted. I wish you all the best, my thoughts go out to you.

We'll still be here! :)

All the best
Dave

[Mystique]

Torzbc, sorry that your situation is draining your energy and consuming your time. Been there, I know how much it takes to start over. I feel you. Once its faced, handled, and you can move on, I am sure new doors will open for you that could not otherwise.

ROMANWKT started a thread yesterday "Its all Nonsense Pt 1" (not sure how to link it) that seems pertinent to what we are discussing.

[torzbc]

Elegant model you represented blackgaius34. Interesting insight Hughe.
Yes, I agree very much so


A mind holding all these abstractions, of representations of symbols of pictographs of direct experiences, is not only numerous times removed from those direct experiences it is describing to itself, but is now vulnerable to believing the abstractions are real "The scientific experts know more about this than I do" and we doubt the validity of our own direct experiences in life - "that couldn't be an EMV near the sun because if they were real the Scientists would tell us".

And as a result we become afraid to tell anyone what we experienced with our own eyes for fear of it being called "woo woo".

James recently wrote on Facebook that we should be known as "The Incredulous Race" I think he has a point there....
Brilliant insight and stating of the obvious Mystique, pity others cannot also fully understand that this is one their most effective tools in controlling us all.

[Jayke]

As to a possibility with Rifts in time, perhaps James means how "time flies when you're having fun"? As I've been trying to increase my awareness I am coming to the understanding that how we experience time appears to be directly linked to our moods/thoughts from moment to moment. If we ascribe to the idea that there is no time and that everything is actually happening at once then perhaps this is what we're given to ponder?

I can ascribe to that idea...
I know that intense emotional experiences (usually negative) can what i would say create a puncture in the fabric of space time, a black hole that sucks thought and emotions into it causing people to get stuck in the past, with thoughts constantly being pulled into and swirling around a past issue, draining life force energy away from the present moment. The experiential mind is in the present, while the thoughts and energy are being pulled into the past due to the gravity of an emotional experience, splitting the minds. Forgiveness and acceptance seem to plug the tear allowing the thoughts and energy to return to the present, aligning the minds in the here and now. That's my take on it anyway.

Torz, I really resonated with the metaphor you used on your blogpost about the morality folder, I feel that is something that's been opened in me over the past year or so and has been spreading throughout the hard drive, I always used to be so chilled out and relaxed that I'd let anything slide, if people wanted to borrow my energy to fulfill their needs i'd be like 'yeah, go for it, whatever'...recently however if anyone tries taking advantage of my good natured energy for any selfish plans, I feel that inner dragon arising as it breathes it's scorching fire on those poor b*****ds. A zero tolerance policy for injustice has been engaged. Take all the time you need, we'll look forward to the pleasure of your company once everything has resolved itself for you.

I've also noticed that this thread had a kind of masuline/feminine theme to it, the split mind...logical questioning vs metaphorical experience sharing...then the idea popped up that to convey understanding and clarity it's best to combine logical thought with pictures and metaphors so the subconscious has something to grasp as well. 8th march today, there's a thread around somewhere saying how the 9th wave of the mayan calender starts in a few hours from now, bringing with it the fulfillment of the unity consciousness, the balancing of the masculine and feminine energies...so thanks for mr horak for starting this thread when he did, the timing of it's unravelling has been impeccable. :)

[astrid]

The first book i read on huna said that the shamans of old knew about the split mind as far back as 50,000 years, probably even further when you consider james information.
they said we have 3 souls... the conscious, the subconscious and the super-concious or A, B and C as in Torz example.

There is no seperation between the 3 IMO, just like an iceberg...only the tip of the iceberg floats above the water, the rest is submerged in the ocean of consciousness

Jayke, i'm glad u mentioned Shamanism, i have been studying for a while in this area, under a couple of western , but traditional trained Shamans,
it has really been a pathway that resonates strongly.
Now i see things all linking up, its very interesting indeed.

I was going to ask James about the shamanic journeying process as a way of bridging the divide, but seems i don't have to.
Good to see this thread is taking root again.
Thanks Torzbc for helping us to keep it going, and good luck with your life stuff, i went through all that myself not long ago.
Its a struggle for a while, but when u re-gain your freedom its all worth it,
things will get better, and you have a lot more support than u might think..

Blessings,

Astrid

[Mystique]

As to a possibility with Rifts in time, perhaps James means how "time flies when you're having fun"? As I've been trying to increase my awareness I am coming to the understanding that how we experience time appears to be directly linked to our moods/thoughts from moment to moment. If we ascribe to the idea that there is no time and that everything is actually happening at once then perhaps this is what we're given to ponder?

I can ascribe to that idea...
I know that intense emotional experiences (usually negative) can what i would say create a puncture in the fabric of space time, a black hole that sucks thought and emotions into it causing people to get stuck in the past, with thoughts constantly being pulled into and swirling around a past issue, draining life force energy away from the present moment. The experiential mind is in the present, while the thoughts and energy are being pulled into the past due to the gravity of an emotional experience, splitting the minds. Forgiveness and acceptance seem to plug the tear allowing the thoughts and energy to return to the present, aligning the minds in the here and now. That's my take on it anyway.

I really appreciate your use of the idea that there is a rip in the fabric of time (and space) when we focus on the past and allow that to drain the energy in the present.

I spent most of my life giving energy to past memories thinking that keeping them alive will make them go away - probably another definition of insanity.

Maybe a proper patch up job on the tear would be to use the now like a needle (a point of focus), with the realization that all time is simultaneous (thread) and from there weave the understanding everything we are conjuring in our minds is from the present perspective.

It is the Present, Present Past, and Present Future - all coming from the perspective of NOW.

If we string our present past memories, with our present point of reference, and imagine the present future, we have one loooonnnnnng eternal NOW.

Mastering that would perhaps give us access to the infinite energy that is available in the Universe.

The past would no longer "suck".

[Icecold]

Torz


If I don't find paid employment I will have no-where to live for myself and my kids... some men can be A holes, not all, just some.

Many of us are in this position right now. If I was paranoid, I would call it a conspiracy.


1000 post milestone. :couch2:

[Nortreb]

Thanks torzbc for your blog!

You put into words what I have been contemplating since the beginning of the year. When James made his announcement on the 6th of March about not positing here anymore and looking at the reality that we are experiencing here, it became clear to me what time it is. Some of us see the massive prison and it's doors are opening especially with the last cycle begining today.

There is really not much time to talk and intellectualize, it is time to "Walk the Walk". Words will not help us, Action will!

The last part of your blog really hit home in what time it is!

Peace,
Nortreb


PS, Please take care and no stress from here. I am positive that your current situation is a storm that you can clear with fresh insight.

[blackgaius34]

There is a Star Trek the Next Generation episode "Where No One Has Gone Before", that comes to mind here. It just popped into my head so I'm going with it. In that episode a being is on the Enterprise that takes them to what appears to be the edge of existence. In some of the dialogue is a brief mention of Space, Time and Thought all being the same thing. The E.T. then tells Wesley to hush and not mention such things in a world that's not ready for the notion....I wonder if the writer of that episode was trying to get something out into the open....

[Mystique]

Torzbc, and James, Darla Ken Jensen Pierce started a new thread "Most Important Video I've Seen" that speaks about dual consciousness and the choices we face. The main message, thought different pieces of it I may disagree with, resonates with what my most inner self has been showing me through images, insights, intuitions, synchronicities, and gut feelings.

I was wondering what James would think of this and how that compares to what he knows of the EMVs and their part of this unfolding?

At 36.15 on the video, it speaks of the element ether, which I believe James has said is not an element and that it is actually Helium. As it pertains to this video, is that what is being described?

I know, Torzbc, you are busy, so take your time in responding.

Here is the the link: http://vimeo.com/20337999

[blackgaius34]

I saw that video too, Mystique. Helium and Ether I believe James has said are one and the same with Helium not being an element at all. I might agree with him considering that astronomers are finding more and more binary systems (which leads to the idea that binary stars are the norm rather than exception) and there is also the theory of planets initially forming in pairs.

I very much identified with much of what that video had to say about everyone needing to deal with their issues and accept their role in allowing this messy world to happen and then just "let go" of all we think we know and allow the power of the Creator to elevate us to a completely new paradigm and teach us the REAL truth. I identified with that so strongly that I've decided to stop "looking" for my answers and turn my attention within to make sure my own motivations are clear and that I have no blockages that will keep me from recognizing "truth" when I see it, feel it and hear it. I feel that in this fashion much will become clear and maybe, just maybe, others will notice and follow the example.

The more I learn the more I'm beginning to think that because of the division, we cannot and will not get a complete picture while we still only exist in this physical state. As such all information should be taken with a skeptical grain of salt as it could be twisted to fit one polarity or another. I guess what I"m saying is I'm starting to let go of this ego in the sense that digging around trying to piece together the 'facts' has been too self-serving.

[Mystique]

I just finished listening to the video on the thread: Kerry Cassidy's Interview with Geroge Kavassilas (sp?)..., and I think I understand a little more what James was referring to when it comes to addressing the Vampire Elite from a perspective of "love and light".

George says that when you give loving "light" energy to the forces of dark, you are not only giving them your energy, but you are feeding them with it - which keeps you stuck in dualism (or split consciousness).

Focusing on positive energy is just the other side of dark energy, and it does nothing to dispel it but in fact either denies the existence of the dark or feeds it, but both keeps the game of dualism in play.

To rise above dualism actually requires more of a neutral stance - a center position if you will, where you maintain your "moral core", as James calls it, standing for your truth but not giving your power away. Your being in your true being of morality and truth keeps YOU centered in the face of darkness, without giving in to it, or denying it. More like facing it with eyes wide open and a unconditional loving heart that maintains its balance and perspective in the face of adversity - so you can be in right thought and do right action that is in alignment with your highest morality. (That is my interpretation of what he said.)

It is much like the metaphor of Sir Lancelot and the excalibur - the sword of Truth that slays deception.

Another thread, "The Twelfth Insight", about the new book from James Redfield (which I am currently reading), is saying the same thing, but gives a step by step way to climb to that moral position and what it takes to hold it - as well as what is at stake if you don't.

Any kind of lie, lowers your vibration and engages the law of karma - what you reap is what you sow. And you attract (through the law of attraction) deception.

As we look at the different threads, you can see how this whole dualistic drama plays itself out, and how we deceive ourselves about coming from a higher moral ground while engaging in attack - attracting attacks back to absurdity. Those who stay on the sidelines may think of themselves as also coming from moral high ground by staying out of the discussion, when they still effect the energy of the group by whatever is going on in their minds. Those who are coming from a "lets move on and just love each other" also get attacked for not addressing the issues so any resolution and forward movement can occur.

Where those who offer balanced opinions and real solutions who don't get sidetracked by judging are often thanked and allow some progress to be made.

It is all here on the forum, what you see depends on which of these positions you are perceiving it from. Food for thought.

[OmetaOne]

To rise above dualism actually requires more of a neutral stance - a center position if you will, where you maintain your "moral core", as James calls it, standing for your truth but not giving your power away. Your being in your true being of morality and truth keeps YOU centered in the face of darkness, without giving in to it, or denying it. More like facing it with eyes wide open and a unconditional loving heart that maintains its balance and perspective in the face of adversity - so you can be in right thought and do right action that is in alignment with your highest morality. (That is my interpretation of what he said.)

Mystique, you got to the heart of it. Thank you!



"Each of us is put here in this time and this place to personally decide the future of humankind.
Did you think you were put here for something less?" - Chief Arvol Looking Horse

[Sierra]

I've be following this thread with great interest looking for a posting on the "Rifts in Time" aspect of this conversation. Can't seem to find any.

Doesn't seem to really apply to split consciousness but I went into the future once to avoid what I thought was going to turn into a death experience and I am wondering has anyone else here jumped time like that? Is that what James and Torz are talking about or is that what Torz will talk about?

Thanks in advance and I apologize if I am way off here ...

[OmetaOne]

I've be following this thread with great interest looking for a posting on the "Rifts in Time" aspect of this conversation. Can't seem to find any.

Doesn't seem to really apply to split consciousness but I went into the future once to avoid what I thought was going to turn into a death experience and I am wondering has anyone else here jumped time like that? Is that what James and Torz are talking about or is that what Torz will talk about?

Thanks in advance and I apologize if I am way off here ...


Sierra, thanks to the hit artists James never got that far. It would have blown peoples minds if James would have gone into that area. But before getting there James got so disenchanted with this place here, he didn't want to do Avalon any favours. The way he was treated didn't want him make stick around anymore. This experience here was not worth the trouble.

Now, there are a lot of people there that James likes and are bright and interested and very kind but they get overshadowed by the c....s who deflect the points of any threads, disseminate false information, lie and won't even stop when it's obvious for everyone to see.

The point in all of this as a showcase for the state of humanity is this: WE DON'T TAKE A STAND AND WE ALL ALLOW THIS TO HAPPEN. This is exactly what split consciousness is about.

Quod erat demonstrandum?


http://emvsinfo.blogspot.com/


"Each of us is put here in this time and this place to personally decide the future of humankind. Did you think you were put here for something less?" - Chief Arvol Looking Horse

[Sierra]

Sierra, thanks to the hit artists James never got that far. It would have blown peoples minds if James would have gone into that area. But before getting there James got so disenchanted with this place here, he didn't want to do Avalon any favours. The way he was treated didn't want him make stick around anymore. This experience here was not worth the trouble.

Now, there are a lot of people there that James likes and are bright and interested and very kind but they get overshadowed by the c....s who deflect the points of any threads, disseminate false information, lie and won't even stop when it's obvious for everyone to see.

The point in all of this as a showcase for the state of humanity is this: WE DON'T TAKE A STAND AND WE ALL ALLOW THIS TO HAPPEN. This is exactly what split consciousness is about.

Quod erat demonstrandum?


http://emvsinfo.blogspot.com/


"Each of us is put here in this time and this place to personally decide the future of humankind. Did you think you were put here for something less?" - Chief Arvol Looking Horse

Ah!!!! Got it!!! Use of terminology on this subject confuses me ... I am going to go read the EMV site now. I've had it up for days actually but I keep getting distracted :embarassed: (Japan, HAARP, ring of fire, March 20th, Madrid fault line next target, Sorcha Faal, etc.)

With all my heart I trust Torz will have massive good luck immediately finding shelter for her and her family as well as a job for herself. Hang in there Torz.
:hug:

The bashing that goes on can't end with the basher stopping everyone, can it? As you say, "... who deflect the points of any threads, disseminate false information, lie and won't even stop when it's obvious for everyone to see."

I STILL think it is a good idea for another button on the forum window that allows the CREATOR to put a basher on mass ignore for their own thread.

How frustrating. I want this information. :hurt:

Thanks Ometa :p

[Sierra]

TWO copies of the Ringmakers of Saturn on Amazon, for 360.00 and 495.00 :faint2:

[Sierra]

Oooh 2010 archive on James Horak's site has the Ringmakers of Saturn online at: http://issuu.com/theresistance/docs/-np--ringmakers-of-saturn1

[MariaDine]

TITLE THREAD Re: Exploring the Split Consciousness and its Parallel to Rifts in Time

side-tracked

Need a definition?

Main Entry: abandoned
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: left alone, deserted
Synonyms: alone, cast aside, cast away, deserted, discarded, dissipated, dropped, dumped, eighty-sixed, eliminated, empty, forgotten, forsaken, given up, godforsaken, jilted, left, left in the cold, left in the lurch, neglected, on the rocks, outcast, passed up, pigeon-holed, rejected, relinquished, shunned, side-tracked , sidelined, unoccupied, vacant, vacated .

Antonyms: adopted, cherished, defended, maintained, supported

Namasté


http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/dro1326l.jpg

[Lifebringer]

Delores Cannon says it's not as good to do hynotic transfer or melding of minds, as the proceedure doesn't go deep enough and sometimes other things can "implant false memories"

I'm not sure, but I listened to her as she deals with the deep deep hynotic transference.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

I lucidly dream often. Wow.

[Sierra]

Okaaay ... I read Norman Bergrun's book. Fascinating. Very dry, very convincing. But of WHAT LOL! Are they terraforming Saturn? Do the rings protect, reflect, deflect? Laying down another layer of marine paint on Iapetus so it can function as an inner world? WHY would you circle a planet laying down exhaust for millennia? The ETs are working hard over there. Sort of feels like a construction site with big machines ...

Onto the EMV 2010 blog ...

oh yes. BTW, completely unrelated, on the same site where you can read Norman Bergrun's book (ISSUU.Com, under the left menu item "Weird and Bizarre" lol) you can read Jacques Vallee's book, Confrontations - A Scientist's Search for Alien Contact, which is also distracting ... er interesting.

I have to go museum wax my house now, earthquake coming today I hear.

Doves, sparrows, juncos, goldfinches, nuthatches, chickadees and titmousies have arrived (I set up a floor show in the backyard for McKnao's old age when he was still alive, (look left, there he is) with two suet cages, a seed bell, a finch sock, a birdfeeder, a hummingbird feeder and two bird baths. Oh he LOVED it! So do we lol. I can hardly wait for the nuthatch babies to check out the birdbath, its hysterical.

Babble babble ... :p