Notice to the people of Avalon

[James Horak]

I post this so that the people on those threads I've started and the one other I've been on know that I am in no way capitulating to the rank little hit artists that proliferate from out of every popular forum's woodwork when a discussion takes on any life they deem of challenge.
I came here in hopes of obtaining a discussion with "Charles" on the basis of many
alternate view points to his, respectfully. That desire will remain.
In order to better show myself to enhance that possibility I attempted to advance
certain subjects of conversation and typically found that circumventing an unintelligible opposition took up more time than showed profit in pursuing purpose.
To those that I have befriended here, please know you are precious to me and the value I place on my time is nothing to that which I place on your value, not just to me but to a world in crisis.
But I will post no more here. JCH

[John Parslow]

Hello James

I for one am very sorry to hear your decision not to post on Avalon any more. I have only just had the time to realize you are here and thus have not had time to read any of your threads; some of us are not here on Avalon all the time ...

Love and peace to you my friend. JP :cool:

[jorr lundstrom]

Ok James, I am sorry to say some members is in total lack of manners.

And seems to be so afraid that they do anything to demolish wot they cant

understand. Hope you´ll be back. Love Jorr

[Maria Stade]

Hallo James ! Ask the Mods to remove what dose not belong in your thread !

I was on my way to join in one of your threads but it was spammed with writings not belonging to the diskussion.

I understand that you get tired !

Hope you will stay.

Love and blessings

Maria

[grapevine]

James

Please don't leave the forum - not like this anyway! The rest of us have been looking forward to interacting with you on one of the finest forums of its kind. Please don't go - you have such a lot to teach us and I (for one) have such a lot to learn ......

Linda

[astrid]

wow.... this is pretty upsetting,

WTF is wrong with people that we can't have guests in our house and give them the respect to listen to their story??

I'm sorry to say that im feeling ashamed to be a witness to this.

I'm really sorry James that you don't feel welcome here.

This is not the Avalon i know and love........

[DevilPigeon]

James

It would be a shame if you left, I'm sure you have a lot that would benefit us as a community.

Please, reconsider.

[Icecold]

I post this so that the people on those threads I've started and the one other I've been on know that I am in no way capitulating to the rank little hit artists that proliferate from out of every popular forum's woodwork when a discussion takes on any life they deem of challenge.
I came here in hopes of obtaining a discussion with "Charles" on the basis of many
alternate view points to his, respectfully. That desire will remain.
In order to better show myself to enhance that possibility I attempted to advance
certain subjects of conversation and typically found that circumventing an unintelligible opposition took up more time than showed profit in pursuing purpose.
To those that I have befriended here, please know you are precious to me and the value I place on my time is nothing to that which I place on your value, not just to me but to a world in crisis.
But I will post no more here. JCH

James I really appreciate your take on things.

Hang in there, we'll try to help mate.

Don't take what has happened as typical, we have a few rabble rousers at work at the moment.

James send me a pm and I'll point you in the direction of Charles.

Cheers,

Icecold

[DianeKJ]

It would be a shame if you left now. I can understand your frustration though, dealing with combative comments instead of a good, eye opening "discussion." All I can say in regards to that is you may be reaching and helping people more than you know. Even you open the mind of just One person, spark the interest and curiosity of One person~ it's worth the effort.

Don't let the lower vibrational arguments drag you down to their level. Don't let that drive you away, make it your reason to stay. :)
Namaste,
Di

[RAKMEiSTER]

hold on james, dynamics shifted not long ago*(ipart of it) , so 29feb joined, and now 2weeks later , so stick one for a 2 more weeks. and be observer some/more. where needed :)

greets

rakmeister

[jorr lundstrom]

I and Maria are at the same point as James, on the treshold. We dont feel welcome here anymore.

Just a lot of silly games played. We came after the Charles- video, because we imagined some of

practical value was about to happen. But now Charles seem to have disappear

into thin air and I see the forum split in at least two groups, the disclosers and the spiritual.

The disclosers are intrested in wots out there and

the spiritual are interested in wots within. And they fight all the time.

And the mods are watching. And Bill says no more carrots because we have

more important things to discuss. Wot? When someone tries to lift the mood

by joking, that becomes a problem. Are we supposed to sit seriously and wait

for Godo? This is really sad. I know that a lot of Avalonians went to Richards forum

last wednesday and thereafter. And we read that the neophytes was left here. I dont

get that, neophyte to wot? I see myself as newbeginner in all aspects of life all the

time, but neophyte naaaaaaaaaa. Can someone explain wot this mess is supposed

to look like? Please.......................................................

[Carmody]

People exist through some form of speaking their truth. A form of psychological echo location.

Anyone attempting to help people find some sort of 'other truth' (psychological 'ladder climbing') is going to have to deal that (individuals and their voice) as an inherent aspect.

That point is largely inescapable. If it is some other method, well, It has a history of not doing as well as one might like it to.

The odds of you (James) achieving any sort of conversation with Charles as a form of public dialogue, are rather limited, in my experience.

I understand the desire for some sort of singular dialogue, yes. It was also a concern of mine where in some threads it was stated, by moderation...that rules were in effect and that when those rules were violated, they were left violated.

The battle of censor -or- free speech. A complex matter, it is.

[Jendayi]

james..
i have not yet read much of what you have written on avalon..
however i would like to share something.. i have been on a very, let's say "lonely" path. the message i bring and the perspective i have has upset many i cross or join paths with.. i have been attacked, ridiculed, and metaphorically crucified for what i stand for.. yet.. al just washes away.. i am left with nothing but myself... and maybe because of my detachedness.. or my full acceptance that all is, indeed on a fundamental level, an illusion, maya... we are playing in a field of energy.. our enemies are only that for a short time.. beyond this life we are all friends.. even with the ones that so fiercely obstruct and test our resolve.. we have to remain gentle in our observation, humble in our battles and loving in our expression.. james.. i would love to see you continuing with the sharing of your perspective.. the resistance you experience is proof that you are touching something... and in the midst of the negative way some are approaching you, you will find gems hidden in the mud.. placed there by amazing people.. ever present... rarely seen... perls of love and wisdom.. let's all focus on those gems.. the mud will eventually wash away....
james.. it is an honour.. please stay..

[Chicodoodoo]

I am seeing the beginnings of a similar problem in a thread I started called "United People - an Alternative World Order". As I have just commented today on that thread, there will be people that visit important threads for the sole purpose of dividing us by deliberately disrupting the discussion. Divide and conquer is, after all, the successful strategy of the ruling elite. Refusing to post plays right into their hands since their purpose is to shut down the discussion. I suggest we find another way to solve this problem.

Note that this disruptive strategy is official government policy (http://www.seankerrigan.com/docs/PersonaManagementSoftware.pdf).

[jorr lundstrom]

I am seeing the beginnings of a similar problem in a thread I started called "United People - an Alternative World Order". As I have just commented today on that thread, there will be people that visit important threads for the sole purpose of dividing us by deliberately disrupting the discussion. Divide and conquer is, after all, the successful strategy of the ruling elite. Refusing to post plays right into their hands since their purpose is to shut down the discussion. I suggest we find another way to solve this problem.

Note that this disruptive strategy is official government policy (http://www.seankerrigan.com/docs/PersonaManagementSoftware.pdf).


Really sad, too many here acting like small kids hanging in their mother skirt demanding total attention

all the time. And nobody to stop them. Love Jorr

[Chicodoodoo]

Please see the quote below from the guidelines (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/announcement.php?f=31):


Personal attacks on threads, where singling out a member(s) for purposes of negative or derogatory remarks is not permitted and will get your post/thread deleted and an infraction given to you which may deny you access to the forum.

I know that discussion can get heated sometimes, but please attack ideas not people....

(for posts in violation of the guidelines please use the small "report post" button - the triangle with "!" on it, as some of you already do)

Sorry for the interruption, please continue on topic :). If you need to comment on this PM me.

Hey James! Did you know about that little triangle symbol near the bottom left of each post? I sure didn't. That could be just the ticket we need to flag disruptive posts for the administrators to look at and possibly delete. So please come back to Avalon and get the administrators involved in policing your threads by using the "Report post" icon.

[Jendayi]

I am seeing the beginnings of a similar problem in a thread I started called "United People - an Alternative World Order". As I have just commented today on that thread, there will be people that visit important threads for the sole purpose of dividing us by deliberately disrupting the discussion. Divide and conquer is, after all, the successful strategy of the ruling elite. Refusing to post plays right into their hands since their purpose is to shut down the discussion. I suggest we find another way to solve this problem.

Note that this disruptive strategy is official government policy (http://www.seankerrigan.com/docs/PersonaManagementSoftware.pdf).


Really sad, too many here acting like small kids hanging in their mother skirt demanding total attention

all the time. And nobody to stop them. Love Jorr

in the end their demand for attention is simply a cry for love... they too wish to be loved.. to be forgiven.. to be embraced.. they are us, our own reflection of that which we don't wish to see in ourselves..
our shadows follow us where ever we go... until we face them.. with a sincere wish to become whole... only then will the agents of dissent dissapear from our current reality.. only then will we transcend them.
when you truely believe in your capacity to love all and everyone, including your self and your shadow... you will manifest it..
namaste.. from my heart to yours

[doodah]

This is a general response to many statements made here...

Where does this spirit of ATTACK come from? If it's not what we would expect of Avalonians, why is this now the predominant spirit on many threads? Who in their right mind would even want to START a thread?

I don't know if there's a kind of split between older folks here who DO have a concept of dignity and courtesy, and younger people who have been trained by the media and culture to toss dignity and courtesy to the wind? It is possible to disagree without insulting anybody, but not if you've been raised with Jerry Springer as your model.

I was part of PA1. The same thing happened there with the Whistleblowers who thought they would find intelligent discussion on Avalon. Every one of them came under similar discourteous badgering from people who wouldn't shut up long enough for the Whistleblowers to get a word in edgewise. Every one of the Whistleblowers left, pretty much saying they'd never do this again. I'm surprised that Wade Frazier has been able to hang in here.

If this is a cultural mass-media "norm" being played out, it indicates just how thoroughly well TPTB have done their job of destroying our ability to form community. We can't even be civil with each other!

Spiritual growth and awareness leads to people taking responsibilty for their own actions, what they say and how they say it. They learn to impose self-limits on expression in order to preserve something of greater value in the group. That principle doesn't seem to be working in this forum.

[Ultima Thule]

I am certainly sorry to hear about your departure. With 160,000 posts in Avalon this post is the first time I stumble upon your threads and am sorry that you have come to this conclusion and am sorry that I found your posts too late. I do wish for you to stay, but nonetheless respect your decision.

[jjl]

Please give us another chance, the noise is finally settling down...

[Rocky_Shorz]

I post this so that the people on those threads I've started and the one other I've been on know that I am in no way capitulating to the rank little hit artists that proliferate from out of every popular forum's woodwork when a discussion takes on any life they deem of challenge.
I came here in hopes of obtaining a discussion with "Charles" on the basis of many
alternate view points to his, respectfully. That desire will remain.
In order to better show myself to enhance that possibility I attempted to advance
certain subjects of conversation and typically found that circumventing an unintelligible opposition took up more time than showed profit in pursuing purpose.
To those that I have befriended here, please know you are precious to me and the value I place on my time is nothing to that which I place on your value, not just to me but to a world in crisis.
But I will post no more here. JCH

well James before you hop to another site you might want to clear a few things up because they will always be here on Avalon for the world to see...

you are proud enough of the fact that you doctored images and put them into NASA to disgrace the person who was your mentor. That you posted it in your Bio all over the net...

you state you are proud you have broke up organizations and yet here you are at Avalon at an unbelievably opportune moment...


Good luck

and yes this post will always be here as a reminder...

[greybeard]

Wolves in sheeps clothing abound.
Thanks Rocky

Quote
I came here in hopes of obtaining a discussion with "Charles" on the basis of many
alternate view points to his, respectfully. That desire will remain.
Quote

I see he did not come here to discuss with those he called vegetation and fungi.
His sole reason was to talk to Charles.
Well at the moment he isent talking to Bill as far as I know so what chance has he.

The only reason I hoped to debate on that thread started on hi behalf was because he talked down to a friend, he was out of order,

I dont quite understand how a non member a guest can type on a thread but no matter.

I dont mind him coming back but I would hope he would be respectful to members and that he would come for members who wnt to discuss hiw work not specifically for Charles

Chris

[DevilPigeon]

.
.
I dont quite understand how a non member a guest can type on a thread but no matter.
.
.
Chris

Chris

It could be that the original poster was once a member but is no more...

Dave

[Ahkenaten]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tuusFdW6lc&feature=related

[modwiz]

This is a general response to many statements made here...

Where does this spirit of ATTACK come from? If it's not what we would expect of Avalonians, why is this now the predominant spirit on many threads? Who in their right mind would even want to START a thread?

I don't know if there's a kind of split between older folks here who DO have a concept of dignity and courtesy, and younger people who have been trained by the media and culture to toss dignity and courtesy to the wind? It is possible to disagree without insulting anybody, but not if you've been raised with Jerry Springer as your model.

I was part of PA1. The same thing happened there with the Whistleblowers who thought they would find intelligent discussion on Avalon. Every one of them came under similar discourteous badgering from people who wouldn't shut up long enough for the Whistleblowers to get a word in edgewise. Every one of the Whistleblowers left, pretty much saying they'd never do this again. I'm surprised that Wade Frazier has been able to hang in here.

If this is a cultural mass-media "norm" being played out, it indicates just how thoroughly well TPTB have done their job of destroying our ability to form community. We can't even be civil with each other!

Spiritual growth and awareness leads to people taking responsibilty for their own actions, what they say and how they say it. They learn to impose self-limits on expression in order to preserve something of greater value in the group. That principle doesn't seem to be working in this forum.

I agree that the PTB have done a good job but the obverse of that coin is how poor a job we have done in throwing off our sheepskins and standing on two legs instead of four. There is going to be an outflow of people from here. I am almost out the door and some will cheer. When those cheering realize their whole posting careers were based on commenting on comments, or picking the bones of thoughtful posts, it will be a rude awakening.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Please give us another chance, the noise is finally settling down...

It has settled down because the job has been accomplished.

[Eric J (Viking)]

Hello James...its a pleasure to read your posts...although I havent spent too much time here lately due to changes in my business, but I still try to read as much as possible...

We have gone through a lot of chaos/change here as I am sure you are aware...so be patient with some of the members here...frustration sets in easily...but generally and most of us here really appreciate your input, I am sure you are aware of this.

None of us here would admit we know all the answers, our minds are open to all.

Just keep on trucking...we are all ears.

viking

[humanalien]

Whether or not, james is a wolf in sheeps clothing, really doesn't matter.
He does bring up a pretty valid point about members belittling other
member posts.

Some members will post on anothers thread that their oringinal post is
stupid and not worthy of recognition and/or discussion.

To the poster of that comment, it may seem like what they said was
no big deal but to the original poster of the thread, it's down right
hurtful. I would never do that to someone. You not only hurt that
person but you also make them feel unimportant as a teem member
and that in itself is hurtful to.

Then we have the members here that post nothing but pictures with
no explanation of what it means follow by about a half a dozen emoticons.
Although this doesn't directly hurt the original poster, it takes the focus
from the topic and puts it on the picture and then people begin posting
about the picture. These people must be looking for attention or trying
to boost their posting numbers. I've seen this done a lot in other forums.

I don't mind if people want to inject a little humor into a thread once in
a while. Sometimes it does help defuse tempers a little.

All i'm saying here is to please be respectful of everyone. Some people
here have by far, a much better education than others here but by no means
does that make them a better person here than anyone else. If that were true,
we could also say that people with more money than other are better than
poorer people but we all know that isn't true either.

Let us please just show some respect to everyone around you and we all
will be much better off for it. Lets learn to play nice.

[WhiteStar]

Hey James! Did you know about that little triangle symbol near the bottom left of each post? I sure didn't. That could be just the ticket we need to flag disruptive posts for the administrators to look at and possibly delete. So please come back to Avalon and get the administrators involved in policing your threads by using the "Report post" icon.

We have been using it and it never stopped a damn thing!

click this link to SEE how we have tried[ (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?14605-Can-We-TRUST-CHARLES-Our-REAL-HISTORY-and-the-E.T.-INVASION-%2ALIE%2A&p=165984&viewfull=1#post165984)


and that did NOT come from the Moderators.
I had to find the information and publish it.

Fat lot of use that was.

[greybeard]

I agree heartedly modwiz, we are friends we do not always agree, In fact if I agree with you we will both be wrong, laughing.

Up till January this was a place where people who had been here some time were respected, they earned it.
Since then there has been a steady exodus of peole whom you could have a rational balanced argument with and if no agrement was reached all had learned from the discussion.

Now its kick ass stuff, if I dont agree with you a thread will be started about it.
This is a forum, a place of debate, we dont have flame wars here.

I have the greatest respect for Bill and Kerry they started something great in Avalon

The spiritually minded balanced the negativity of some posts, the others kept the spiritual from becoming all fluff an nonsense, so a good balance of being and doing.
The two merged beautifully with free exchange of idea.

Kerry and Bill are like family they disagreed they are still friends.


Bill Richard and Celine ex mods they are family, they have had a rough time, all are gutted all are hurting.

No point in blaming

I support Bill and I support Richard Celine and ex mods.

I dont judge but I have been perhaps tactless at times in pointing out things
For that I apologizes.

I hope that at some time the wounds will heal and family unite if in different houses.
I am a member here and a member at Richards
Atticus a member here and at Richards,
I dont follow Atticus in fact advised against having anything to do with his material, but I dont mind him being as he is.

So this thread is a notice to people of Avalon

Im saying you need to let go of kick ass mentality, the exception being where a person has a record of disrupting bringing down organizations because thats what they do to places like Avalon.

Thats why people like Rocky are so valuable they dont go with what resonates with them they investigate and give facts as above.
That fact is beyond dispute it is not an opinion.
Chris

[WhiteStar]

I agree heartedly modwiz, we are friends we do not always agree, In fact if I agree with you we will both be wrong, laughing.

Thats why people like Rocky are so valuable they dont go with what resonates with them they investigate and give facts as above.
That fact is beyond dispute it is not an opinion.
Chris

I am amazed at your comments Chris.

Never mind, another high rung available for you.

stay on your perch, I wont be here long either.

[WhiteStar]

well James before you hop to another site you might want to clear a few things up because they will always be here on Avalon for the world to see...

you are proud enough of the fact that you doctored images and put them into NASA to disgrace the person who was your mentor. That you posted it in your Bio all over the net...

you state you are proud you have broke up organizations and yet here you are at Avalon at an unbelievably opportune moment...


Good luck

and yes this post will always be here as a reminder...

Yes, I thought so.... I knew there was another rat hiding somewhere!

[bashi]

Please give us another chance, the noise is finally settling down...

Yes please!
There will be a lot to learn!
I have so many more questions!

[bashi]

well James before you hop to another site you might want to clear a few things up because they will always be here on Avalon for the world to see...

you are proud enough of the fact that you doctored images and put them into NASA to disgrace the person who was your mentor. That you posted it in your Bio all over the net...

you state you are proud you have broke up organizations and yet here you are at Avalon at an unbelievably opportune moment...

Good luck

and yes this post will always be here as a reminder...

Rocky, thanks for this VERY TELLING post...

[WhiteStar]

I agree heartedly modwiz, we are friends we do not always agree, In fact if I agree with you we will both be wrong, laughing.

Chris

Yes, all the way to the Bank...

[bashi]

Yes, I thought so.... I knew there was another rat hiding somewhere!

Rocky, you are fast tracking the evolutionary path here:

From vegetable made to rodent within 12 hours! I am jealous. ;)

Thanks to our new GODS! :hail::hail::hail:
(some more, so that maybe i get also a promotion from critter to ?)

[Rocky_Shorz]

I hide from no one and if asking for the truth makes me a rat, well I guess thanks and goodbye...

[WhiteStar]

.
.



the rats have WON and Avalon has LOST

[Rocky_Shorz]

no whitestar, we are the heart of Avalon each and every one of us...

when you come to light being to teach peace, you better have it inside...

when we give you a chance to come clean and you fight instead of opening up or saying it was a terrible bio James wrote that is understood by many...

you all sealed your fates

go in peace

[greybeard]

.
.



the rats have WON and Avalon has LOST

How long exactly have you been a member here?

Which Avalon exactly are you talking bout?

The one which was respected throughout the alternative community or the one we have now?

Many good new members who came for what Avalon has to offer.

Chris

[WhiteStar]

.
.



the rats have WON and Avalon has LOST

How long exactly have you been a member here?

Which Avalon exactly are you talking bout?

The one which was respected throughout the alternative community or the one we have now?

Many good new members who came for what Avalon has to offer.

Chris

Bye Chris.

see you on the other side...

[Muzz]

.
.



the rats have WON and Avalon has LOST

Define lost

[greybeard]

.
.



the rats have WON and Avalon has LOST

Im afraid you are right
Many have left only took 6 weeks to rip down what has taken years to build.
And no they are not all at Richards place.
Coventry knows about demolition for sure.
I think you just like good scrap the reason for the fight does not matter
I honestly dont mind.
But you are spoiling your own nest here.
Are you actually denying what Rocky posted?
Tell us its a lie just to discredit James.
Go on.
Chris

[lightblue]

.
whitestar:


the rats have WON and Avalon has LOST


sounds the only thing lost here is your temper...:wink: l

.

[bashi]

I hide from no one and if asking for the truth makes me a rat, well I guess thanks and goodbye...

don't run please yet.
maybe in short time you will be promoted to PIG ! ;)

[bashi]

.
.



the rats have WON and Avalon has LOST



and here you go.... BYE BYE !

.

[str8thinker]

(Chicodoodoo) Note that this disruptive strategy is official government policy.
If you include my posts in your remarks, I'm happy to say I am totally independent and do not work, nor have ever worked for any government body or similar authority. :)


(jorr lundstrom) The disclosers are intrested in wots out there and the spiritual are interested in wots within. And they fight all the time.
I'm not sure that they fight all the time. However, I agree with your basic division. I am interested in disclosure and find it very difficult to come to grips with spiritual subjects, so generally avoid posting to them. James Horak's material seems to have features of both, but that's not what concerns me.


(Carmody) The odds of you (James) achieving any sort of conversation with Charles as a form of public dialogue, are rather limited, in my experience.
I completely agree. If and when James Horak confronts Charles on Charles' new website, I will be very interested in what transpires! :)


(James Horak) I am in no way capitulating to the rank little hit artists that proliferate from out of every popular forum's woodwork when a discussion takes on any life they deem of challenge.
In that case, like the others in this thread I welcome you to stay and debate your material alongside that of everyone else here with a view. Notice that apart from being difficult to understand, the only other thing I have criticized is your patronizing attitude to the rest of us. So please stay, come down to our level, make yourself at home and try to avoid behaving like a seagull.

[K626]

Some of the longest goodbyes outside of pantomine.

cheers

K

[WhiteStar]

.
.

the rats have won and avalon has lost

define lost


rats 4
avalon 0

[lightblue]

.
whitestar:


rats 4
avalon 0

who's rats? :blink: l

.

[str8thinker]

(cancelled in the interests of politeness)

[Anchor]

Many have left only took 6 weeks to rip down what has taken years to build.

Please stop keep saying that.

Things happen

People leave

People join

Every major forum drama is the same.

Wait and see what happens.

There is always a silver lining.

Focus on what you want, not on what you dont want.

John..

[thunder24]

What is the problem with the keyboard warriors and why can't we get past the emotionalism. IF you have a problem with what someone says why can't you calming question or discuss instead of the egos coming out to play. It seems some are still letting loose of their anger on here towards others only for the emotionaly response. If it gets petty ignore the person, but those with info and emotionaly balanced insights please continue sharing, seekers can over look the non-sense. The Forums are for discussion, I would hope we could raise the bar instead of debateing how to debate. Im not going anywhere, I just joined and I can look past the ignorance dispalyed. It my two cents but seems worth it. please lets have peace and insightful discussions. If you see the person is being divisive point it out quick to a mod, no need to keep bantering with them. James I hope you would display the same and continue to discuss with the true seekers here, not the dominantly opionionated that we are trying to reer.
peace

[jorr lundstrom]

.
.



the rats have WON and Avalon has LOST



and here you go.... BYE BYE !

.

Bashi, I see you

[Mystique]

James, you were one of the few I resonated with and just your presence here held such great hope in me to have real dialogue, and a meaningful way to sort through the complexities we are facing as everything seems to crumble around us.

I cared enough about what I believe you stand for to break through and find my voice, and reach out to you for input and challenge.

It is heartbreaking that you are leaving before things really get started.

If you want to make a difference in this world, for the world, do it with us.

Help us maneuver our way through these distractions and attacks.

Together we can do it. But as you can see, many of us need to have access to the vantage point you offer so we can see more clearly what lies ahead.

I need you, and want you here. I hope you can feel that and respond to my call for help and support.

I didn't see what was happening on the thread fast enough because I was on a long distance call to my daughter.

THIS is split consciousness in action. There just HAS to be a way for many of us to face this together in way that moves Consciousness forward.


This is NOT alienation!

[doodah]

Well, Modwiz, from post #25, I hope you're not out the door completely. Maybe just take a few days off!

I know it gets terribly boring and reptitious to say the same things over and over and over: "Don't slam the screen door!" My mother must have said that thousands of times to 4 kids who were always moving too fast to pay attention.

It's hard to get up off of 4 legs and stand on 2 when TPTB have done such a good job of making the burden of s**t so heavy. I can understand that and you can make allowances for that in a population that is fairly balanced. I'm just amazed that so many are here on Avalon and this place is so OUT of balance. Where did they come from? The alphabet agencies must be hiring?

[Ahkenaten]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfl1myyC6hU

[jorr lundstrom]

Stops at the treshold, turns around, no hurry

One of my most beloved friends Babaji

A man of action

http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt81/sakasvattaja/Babajimbge.jpg

[humanalien]

I must admit, i'm lost. Must be some more behind
the scenes stuff that i'm not privy to. That's fine though.
It's none of my business.....

In my last post in this thread, i was speaking more
about how some members are treated badly because
of the posts they made and not specifically about any
one person.

[aikya]

well James before you hop to another site you might want to clear a few things up because they will always be here on Avalon for the world to see...

you are proud enough of the fact that you doctored images and put them into NASA to disgrace the person who was your mentor. That you posted it in your Bio all over the net...

you state you are proud you have broke up organizations and yet here you are at Avalon at an unbelievably opportune moment...


Good luck

and yes this post will always be here as a reminder...

Yes, I thought so.... I knew there was another rat hiding somewhere!

Gotta say that Rocky-Shorz's comment was a misunderstanding of what James had said.

[WhiteStar]

.
.



the rats have WON and Avalon has LOST

Im afraid you are right
Many have left only took 6 weeks to rip down what has taken years to build.
And no they are not all at Richards place.
Coventry knows about demolition for sure.
I think you just like good scrap the reason for the fight does not matter
I honestly dont mind.

But you are spoiling your own nest here.

Unlike YOU Chris, I place NO values on such trivial possessions.


Are you actually denying what Rocky posted?

for the benefit of Truth seekers, I will answer this, but NOT for yours Chris.

Yes, it WAS clearly explained, but some people or should I say rats only read what they WANT to see. The Truth is of NO importance to them nor clearly to YOU either Chris.

Tell us its a lie just to discredit James.
Go on.

Chris, YOU are the one who is clearly discrediting YOURSELF, but I'm sure you can live with that, can't YOU?

Chris

==================================

[Chicodoodoo]

Hey James! Did you know about that little triangle symbol near the bottom left of each post? I sure didn't. That could be just the ticket we need to flag disruptive posts for the administrators to look at and possibly delete. So please come back to Avalon and get the administrators involved in policing your threads by using the "Report post" icon.

We have been using it and it never stopped a damn thing!

Really? I didn't know that. That is a real disappointment to hear. It implies that the moderators and administrators aren't doing their jobs properly. Maybe that is where the problem lies.

[lightblue]

We have been using it and it never stopped a damn thing!


Really? I didn't know that. That is a real disappointment to hear. It implies that the moderators and administrators aren't doing their jobs properly. Maybe that is where the problem lies.

i don't think we are here to pontificate on what mods/admin should do...they follow their gudelines.. thanks :yu: l

.

[bashi]

.
.



the rats have WON and Avalon has LOST



and here you go.... BYE BYE !

.

Bashi, I see you

Well, it's good to know that there are others who also can hand out carrots, isn`t it...;)

[greybeard]

Trivial possessions.
Avalon is a trivial procession?
I own nothing.
I have no car, on benefts been made homeless not that long ago but did not drink.
I lay my head on the pillow soon sober what else matters?

I have a reputation of honesty and integrity but I dont mind what people think of me.
I know what I am.
A sober drunk by the grace of God.
What else matter?
Chris

[granny]

I join in an apology for whatever noise has been thrown your way. There are many of us here sincerely interested in hearing what you have to say and learning from the experience. Please stay with us a while longer. But if you should decide to move on, I wish you all the best.
Granny

[WhiteStar]

well James before you hop to another site you might want to clear a few things up because they will always be here on Avalon for the world to see...

you are proud enough of the fact that you doctored images and put them into NASA to disgrace the person who was your mentor. That you posted it in your Bio all over the net...

you state you are proud you have broke up organizations and yet here you are at Avalon at an unbelievably opportune moment...


Good luck

and yes this post will always be here as a reminder...

Yes, I thought so.... I knew there was another rat hiding somewhere!

Gotta say that Rocky-Shorz's comment was a misunderstanding of what James had said.

Put your glasses on Chris... oh never mind, here...


"Gotta say that Rocky-Shorz's comment
was a misunderstanding of what James had said".


But it sure didn't take you long to jump in and join the Rats, did it 'O Enlightened One'


Give them enough rope...

(Do you remember what I said Edina?)

[shiva777]

Chris has discredited himself countless times ..here's one example of that from the ego thread that his ego is so attached to that it needs to keep repeating itself in that thread..lol

greybeard wrote "All knowing ego must have an opinion on everything."

he has posted his OPINIONS a total of 1,774 times in a period of 12 months in this forum alone...lol ..
that was 4 days ago..in the last 4 days he has posted another 50 times..lol

just another example of being attached to his ego which is attached to this forum for egoic food..via eckhart tolle and Dr Hawkins distorted escapist philosophies that he parrots continually...

forums will become more and more chaotic as the energies become more chaotic..no stopping it,just observe and notice when you feed it...

...

[jorr lundstrom]

.
.



the rats have won and avalon has lost



and here you go.... Bye bye !

.

bashi, i see you

well, it's good to know that there are others who also can hand out carrots, isn`t it...;)

lmao....................

[lightblue]

chris
Trivial possessions.
Avalon is a trivial procession?
I own nothing.
I have no car, on benefts been made homeless not that long ago but did not drink.
I lay my head on the pillow soon sober what else matters?

I have a reputation of honesty and integrity but I dont mind what people think of me.
I know what I am.
A sober drunk by the grace of God.
What else matter?
Chris

you are evry bit precious..many look up to you...i know i do too...thanks for being you... :yes2: l

.

[greybeard]

I join in an apology for whatever noise has been thrown your way. There are many of us here sincerely interested in hearing what you have to say and learning from the experience. Please stay with us a while longer. But if you should decide to move on, I wish you all the best.
Granny

Hi Granny its not clear who you mean.
Frankly everyone has a part to play and its as Anchor rightly said itsthe nature of forums for people to come and go.
Chris

[3optic]

chris
Trivial possessions.
Avalon is a trivial procession?
I own nothing.
I have no car, on benefts been made homeless not that long ago but did not drink.
I lay my head on the pillow soon sober what else matters?

I have a reputation of honesty and integrity but I dont mind what people think of me.
I know what I am.
A sober drunk by the grace of God.
What else matter?
Chris

you are evry bit precious..many look up to you...i know i do too...thanks for being you... :yes2: l

.

Please take care Chris. watch out for those ELFs! Also there are many who seem to like pushing a falling man so to speak ;)

Shall we move to a better space? :cool:

[lightblue]

shiva777
Chris has discredited himself countless times ..here's one example of that from the ego thread that his ego is so attached to that it needs to keep repeating itself in that thread..lol

greybeard wrote "All knowing ego must have an opinion on everything."

he has posted his OPINIONS a total of 1,774 times in a period of 12 months in this forum alone...lol ..
that was 4 days ago..in the last 4 days he has posted another 50 times..lol

just another example of being attached to the ego which is attached to this forum for egoic food

even if this were to be true - i prefer one's own EGO to SOUL- LESS bodies/containers...i defenately prefer one's own inherent EGO to the ones relentlessly pontificating on the basis of other people's EGOs .. :wink: l

.

[Chicodoodoo]

We have been using it and it never stopped a damn thing!


Really? I didn't know that. That is a real disappointment to hear. It implies that the moderators and administrators aren't doing their jobs properly. Maybe that is where the problem lies.

i don't think we are here to pontificate on what mods/admin should do...they follow their gudelines.. thanks :yu: l


If there's a problem, it's our duty to point it out to the moderators. That's what the little triangle icon is for, according to Ilie Pandia, an Avalon administrator. And if that doesn't work, as claimed, then there is a bigger problem that the administrators need to be aware of so that it can be addressed.



I know that discussion can get heated sometimes, but please attack ideas not people....

(for posts in violation of the guidelines please use the small "report post" button - the triangle with "!" on it, as some of you already do)

[jorr lundstrom]

Perfect is nature and kids from the eighties.

though in different aspects like...........

http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt81/sakasvattaja/wyga.jpg

[torzbc]

Hey James! Did you know about that little triangle symbol near the bottom left of each post? I sure didn't. That could be just the ticket we need to flag disruptive posts for the administrators to look at and possibly delete. So please come back to Avalon and get the administrators involved in policing your threads by using the "Report post" icon.

We have been using it and it never stopped a damn thing!

Really? I didn't know that. That is a real disappointment to hear. It implies that the moderators and administrators aren't doing their jobs properly. Maybe that is where the problem lies.

Only Paul the Mod has been of help with this rat infested issue we seem to have at Avalon.. He cleaned up the "Can we trust Charles" thread, where there was a veritable nest of the filthy vermin to be found...

Shocking Forum currently, I have been a member ( but not a poster for the last year ) of Avalon for over two years and it NEVER used to be like it is now...

Whitestar, you are a star and now you are a friend too...

I'm sorry Bill....I believe you are a good man but you need to buy some rat poison and fast before they take over the place....

There is no free and open-minded speech here, not if it has any meaning to it..
THEY don't want it that way....:tape2::tape2::tape2:

[jjl]

.
.

the rats have won and avalon has lost

define lost


rats 4
avalon 0

once again, can someone decipher this for the uninformed? for the record. Whenever I see another hint with no explanations, I won't read it anymore or post on the thread. :) I have my own ideas why this keeps happening;) Huh? Huh? How do ya like the way THAT feels. I wont be wasting anymore of my time here lets see... thank you John, Manny and who else? HMMM:confused: Oh yeah La Estrella Blanca

[lightblue]

If there's a problem, it's our duty to point it out to the moderators. That's what the little triangle icon is for, according to Ilie Pandia, an Avalon administrator. And if that doesn't work, as claimed, then there is a bigger problem that the administrators need to be aware of so that it can be addressed.

i know i know, you have made that point already...but surely it's not you running this forum... maybe have some more trust in mods/admin.. :wink: l

.

[ThePythonicCow]

I'm going to close this thread for 10 or 20 minutes while I read it.

(Anyone have a bit of single malt they can share ;))

[ThePythonicCow]

Ok - I am reopening the thread.

I would ask that those who posted with some strong feelings wait a few more minutes before posting again, and that they calm down a bit when doing so.

Actually this was a quite useful thread, in an odd sort of way. Some of us admins/mods were off discussing these very matters, in a productive and involved discussion in our mod/admin chat area. This thread provided a pungent (if not always calm) presentation of some important viewpoints on how to improve Project Avalon.

Thank-you for "letting me" take that little time out.

[Mandala]

To everyone with positive intentions for Avalon, please stay. If that little triangle is for mean, callous, ruthless, attacking posters, then by all means let's push the button. We will rid ourselves of this negativity toward people attacking members for the sole purpose of blowing out someone candle to make theirs burn brighter. Rise up people for the good of the forum and the good of mankind!

[aikya]

To everyone with positive intentions for Avalon, please stay. If that little triangle is for mean, callous, ruthless, attacking posters, then by all means let's push the button. We will rid ourselves of this negativity toward people attacking members for the sole purpose of blowing out someone candle to make theirs burn brighter. Rise up people for the good of the forum and the good of mankind!

Perhaps the mods would be kind enough to check and re-assure people that the little triangle is working? Thanks in advance. :)

[ThePythonicCow]

Perhaps the mods would be kind enough to check and re-assure people that the little triangle is working? Thanks in advance. :)
The software (triangle reporting button) works.

What the mods behind the button do depends on various factors.

[jorr lundstrom]

Outside looking in

http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt81/sakasvattaja/pilgrim2.jpg

[Agape]

To everyone with positive intentions for Avalon, please stay. If that little triangle is for mean, callous, ruthless, attacking posters, then by all means let's push the button. We will rid ourselves of this negativity toward people attacking members for the sole purpose of blowing out someone candle to make theirs burn brighter. Rise up people for the good of the forum and the good of mankind!


I post this so that the people on those threads I've started and the one other I've been on know that I am in no way capitulating to the rank little hit artists that proliferate from out of every popular forum's woodwork when a discussion takes on any life they deem of challenge.
I came here in hopes of obtaining a discussion with "Charles" on the basis of many
alternate view points to his, respectfully. That desire will remain.
In order to better show myself to enhance that possibility I attempted to advance
certain subjects of conversation and typically found that circumventing an unintelligible opposition took up more time than showed profit in pursuing purpose.
To those that I have befriended here, please know you are precious to me and the value I place on my time is nothing to that which I place on your value, not just to me but to a world in crisis.
But I will post no more here. JCH



Sorry dears. I know how it feels and we are moving in a vicious circle here, many left for the same reason.

Sir Horak obviously came here only, to discuss the Charles materials, like the rest of the 2000 people attracted by Bills recent video release. The game has been played , go home now I suggest ..pardon me the little sarcasm but that's how it is.


Besides all those wisdom seekers and truth keepers ..

there's a couple of folks on the forum who have had their honest share of super information. Without ridicule, there are many other 'Charleses' attached to this drama ( and no, they're not IDed as Admins and Mods of former PA or someone being important for being privy to Bill and Charles ).

It's ludicrous if you want to hear my statement. You know Barry King has left for the same reason .


I don't want to rise the value of my own testimony, no need for that .


I'm likewise, not in stand to prove myself to membership here.


There's not much reason to stay around though. People are following Bills work , that's only fair and whatever Bill approves is the right way to them,
it maybe Charles or anyone else .



It's as if no one else knows anything here at all. Not true of course, you can still make great steps forwards and look for information further ..



Blessings

:angel:

[aikya]

Outside looking in

http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt81/sakasvattaja/pilgrim2.jpg


That's beautiful, and it's the same colours as the flag in your avatar. :)

[Icecold]

To everyone with positive intentions for Avalon, please stay. If that little triangle is for mean, callous, ruthless, attacking posters, then by all means let's push the button. We will rid ourselves of this negativity toward people attacking members for the sole purpose of blowing out someone candle to make theirs burn brighter. Rise up people for the good of the forum and the good of mankind!


The mods will let things run unless specific forum rules are broken. They act on a consensus based on the rules. There is no rule against thread hijacking. Its called 'spectrum of opinion in debate'. Its also called an argument.


I could ask the question...why was the AI thread closed? Naaaaaaa. Won't bother.

[Tuza]

Not that I am tech minded at all, but instead of losing good people, Bill why can't you and the mods and the admin come up with an idea like a thread or sub forum for a person like James to state his thoughts which no one can reply to, to keep the trolls out and maybe they can discuss things on another thread.

Mmmmh, on second thought that wont work aneither.

@Agape I still dont understand why Kerry and Bill cannot look into your testimony and do an interview with yourself which in turn could bring people out of the woodwork to help you.

I am still not happy with the whole sh.t storm that pushed Barry's buttons and having him banned. I saw from the outset here that there was one person that made her presence felt that should have been banned and we all know who that was. Just saying what I feel.

[Poly Hedra]

I remember how exciting it was when Avalon was set up. The ground Crew... remember? I havent posted much at all lately. I'm still waiting for everything to calm down. But I do agree with the idea that instead of letting someone belittle you and be insulting and argumentative that we should use the yellow attention triangle and not give the person the satisfaction of arguing back.
We cant throw this away. I think that all the members who really really care about what happens to Avalon should now come forward and take back our forum. We cannot let this get the better of us.

Moving to another forum just seems pointless to me because all we end up doing is moving from forum to forum. We have to hold our ground from this negative situation.

Positve outcome.

Hang tough!!

[Intraphase]

.
.

the rats have won and avalon has lost

define lost


rats 4
avalon 0

once again, can someone decipher this for the uninformed? for the record. Whenever I see another hint with no explanations, I won't read it anymore or post on the thread. :) I have my own ideas why this keeps happening;) Huh? Huh? How do ya like the way THAT feels. I wont be wasting anymore of my time here lets see... thank you John, Manny and who else? HMMM:confused: Oh yeah La Estrella Blanca

James Horak came to share certain information he felt he was in possession of. The process of sharing and questioning of the material shared was not to his standards of statement - inquiry - follow up question & then next statement.

There are numerous links in the two threads to examine his positions that include some videos, bios and position papers. He had an interest in talking to "Charles/Atticus" that he described in his own words as wanting to "Confront" the material and the messenger of the material. That desire went unmet. The reason for his departure are a matter of opinion and judgement.

Hope that is of assistance JJL.

P.S. The material consisted of Electro-Magnetic Vehicles he asserts are assisting in balancing the suns energy and a theory of consciousness he describes as "Divided Consciousness."

[Ross]

Lighten up folks...


I read somewhere in the guidelines:


All members are expected to contribute to the positive energy and attitude of the forum. While healthy debate is a traditional and integral part of all critical inquiry, members are expected to be open-minded, committed to learning, and responsive to well-intentioned feedback.


Just a loving reminder for all:hat:

Peace to you...

Ross

[Lord Sidious]

I remember how exciting it was when Avalon was set up. The ground Crew... remember? I havent posted much at all lately. I'm still waiting for everything to calm down. But I do agree with the idea that instead of letting someone belittle you and be insulting and argumentative that we should use the yellow attention triangle and not give the person the satisfaction of arguing back.
We cant throw this away. I think that all the members who really really care about what happens to Avalon should now come forward and take back our forum. We cannot let this get the better of us.

Moving to another forum just seems pointless to me because all we end up doing is moving from forum to forum. We have to hold our ground from this negative situation.

Positve outcome.

Hang tough!!

I agree, we have to make a stand and declare that our colours don't run, as the Hells Angels would say.
Question, is Avalon worth the effort? HELL YEAH.
How many more people do we have to have run off before we get the idea?
Even if we don't like/agree with someone's outlook, so what? I don't agree with everyone here either, you don't all agree with me.
I can live with that.
Please, a bit more respect for others opinions and a bit less of the narky factor.
Thanks

[modwiz]

Icecold posted some very useful materials about bullying on Charlie Pecos' thread last night. The dynamics involved and especially the support system of "bullies" is relevant to the problems we experience here at Avalon. The two problems might be apples and oranges but the subject is still about fruit. Especially spoiled fruit.

[Icecold]

I remember how exciting it was when Avalon was set up. The ground Crew... remember? I havent posted much at all lately. I'm still waiting for everything to calm down. But I do agree with the idea that instead of letting someone belittle you and be insulting and argumentative that we should use the yellow attention triangle and not give the person the satisfaction of arguing back.
We cant throw this away. I think that all the members who really really care about what happens to Avalon should now come forward and take back our forum. We cannot let this get the better of us.

Moving to another forum just seems pointless to me because all we end up doing is moving from forum to forum. We have to hold our ground from this negative situation.

Positve outcome.

Hang tough!!

I agree, we have to make a stand and declare that our colours don't run, as the Hells Angels would say.
Question, is Avalon worth the effort? HELL YEAH.
How many more people do we have to have run off before we get the idea?
Even if we don't like/agree with someone's outlook, so what? I don't agree with everyone here either, you don't all agree with me.
I can live with that.
Please, a bit more respect for others opinions and a bit less of the narky factor.
Thanks

Good try Milord,

unfortunately, hit a brick wall here. However I can see your point. Takes a special kind of person to carry on under these circumstances. You and I have probably seen the worst of the worst elsewhere. That helps us. Some others haven't the experience or willingness to engage in constant rounds of debates. As you know it becomes quite tiring. Many here are disheartened and are newbies to contentious debate.

[Lord Sidious]

I remember how exciting it was when Avalon was set up. The ground Crew... remember? I havent posted much at all lately. I'm still waiting for everything to calm down. But I do agree with the idea that instead of letting someone belittle you and be insulting and argumentative that we should use the yellow attention triangle and not give the person the satisfaction of arguing back.
We cant throw this away. I think that all the members who really really care about what happens to Avalon should now come forward and take back our forum. We cannot let this get the better of us.

Moving to another forum just seems pointless to me because all we end up doing is moving from forum to forum. We have to hold our ground from this negative situation.

Positve outcome.

Hang tough!!

I agree, we have to make a stand and declare that our colours don't run, as the Hells Angels would say.
Question, is Avalon worth the effort? HELL YEAH.
How many more people do we have to have run off before we get the idea?
Even if we don't like/agree with someone's outlook, so what? I don't agree with everyone here either, you don't all agree with me.
I can live with that.
Please, a bit more respect for others opinions and a bit less of the narky factor.
Thanks

Good try Milord,

unfortunately, hit a brick wall here. However I can see your point. Takes a special kind of person to carry on under these circumstances. You and I have probably seen the worst of the worst elsewhere. That helps us. Some others haven't the experience or willingness to engage in
constant rounds of debates. As you know it becomes quite tiring. May here are disheartened and are newbies to contentious debate.

What you say is true, that is why we can't give up.

[Agape]

To everyone with positive intentions for Avalon, please stay. If that little triangle is for mean, callous, ruthless, attacking posters, then by all means let's push the button. We will rid ourselves of this negativity toward people attacking members for the sole purpose of blowing out someone candle to make theirs burn brighter. Rise up people for the good of the forum and the good of mankind!



@Agape I still dont understand why Kerry and Bill cannot look into your testimony and do an interview with yourself which in turn could bring people out of the woodwork to help you.

I am still not happy with the whole sh.t storm that pushed Barry's buttons and having him banned. I saw from the outset here that there was one person that made her presence felt that should have been banned and we all know who that was. Just saying what I feel.


It can not come from my intent and idea , how could that be , follow the subtle logic .

I require help with proceeding the information and recording it in detail on science grounds .
Bill and Kerry, as well as Barry for a long time, their primary interest is in disclosure of information already approved by some official body ( no matter plenty of disinformation is being supplied by those 'good channels' to them, in various forms, they both know ) .

They walk outside, I walk inside . We're both stuck here and the first and only attempt for public release of the information is stuck as well.

What does it tell you and me ? We become pawns in someones game the first moment of our promotion.

Therefore, having free hands is not a huge mistake .


This is so called 'conspirative logic'. It's kind of like if you reverse the pot upside down. Truth becomes lie and lie becomes truth, to keep everyone quiet .


:hug:

[Poly Hedra]

I think that everyone is mostly aware of the difference between a discussion and an arguement.
In a discussion there are only winners. In an argument there are only losers.
We all know the difference between a thoughtful disagreement and a simple insult that comes from thoughtlessness.

My heart goes out everyone here trying to wade through all the s**** and mud slinging.
But yes I do believe there are enogh good people here who really want to learn.
I understand that a lot of people have felt sick and dont want to be here anymore.

Dont let this get the better of us.
This is just a microcosm of the stuff that is happening in the world at large.
This forum still be what it was intended to be. We just have to not give up.
A bit like life. As above so below

Sorry if I repeat myself. :)

[Icecold]

Lord Sidious:


What you say is true, that is why we can't give up.

The thread manglers are not affecting me personally. I'm immune to it.

Its my friends that concern me, I don't want to see them hurt or feel that have to leave.

Such good souls. This is the tragedy for me.

What a cleansing its been and continues to be. Torquemada would be proud of some.

[Anchor]

Chris has discredited himself countless times ..here's one example of that from the ego thread that his ego is so attached to that it needs to keep repeating itself in that thread..lol

greybeard wrote "All knowing ego must have an opinion on everything."

he has posted his OPINIONS a total of 1,774 times in a period of 12 months in this forum alone...lol ..
that was 4 days ago..in the last 4 days he has posted another 50 times..lol

just another example of being attached to his ego which is attached to this forum for egoic food..via eckhart tolle and Dr Hawkins distorted escapist philosophies that he parrots continually...

forums will become more and more chaotic as the energies become more chaotic..no stopping it,just observe and notice when you feed it...

...

That was not constructive, also a bit high on the harshness/meanie scale - and you are now responsible for adding one more significant iota to the chaos you refer too :)

[indiana]

Notice to the people of Avalon

Notice given.,., and received.,.,

Paths will cross again
Intention.........

[TraineeHuman]

Very sad to lose such a brilliant and wise being as James, regardless of whether people agree with what he says or not, or truly listen or not. But this forum has always been “chaotic” like that, pretty much.

As far as quarreling goes, if you learn to not make any of it personal, it’s a learning process. It’s the Socratic method. It’s also dialectic logic, which doesn’t somehow belong only to the Illuminati, or to Marx. It’s the true logic of how all change works, all positive growth. That’s why people love to watch good drama and good movies. Drama is conflict. So, let’s not take the “chaos” personally, folks. Taking anything personally is 100% neurotic. It’s 100% ego. Integrate your negative reactions with the rest of yourself and don’t choose to let them take you over.

I’ve often wondered how disinfo agents of the forces of repression can believe that by opposing things like this forum they can “win”. From dialectical logic we know for a fact that the end result will always be something quite different from what either “side” was aiming for. Not only that, but it will be more positive, more constructive. I’m sorry I don’t have a quote from Marx or Hegel or Socrates at hand right now to confirm this. But I’ve read it quite a few times when dialectical logic is discussed. That’s why I believe it’s impossible for depopulation or whatever other vile agenda to win out as long as there are arguments against it that reach the mass consciousness.

[indiana]

............

[blackatiam]

To those that I have befriended here, please know you are precious to me and the value I place on my time is nothing to that which I place on your value, not just to me but to a world in crisis.

I'm sorry
Please forgive me
I love you
Thank you

It was because of you that I found out about EMVs. I will miss you here.

[jorr lundstrom]

Back again after clearing up among the disturbing Bushi-doves

and krisp-owles. Time to sharpen the claws and arranging the

feathers. Gotta be in condition to next mission.:wave:


http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt81/sakasvattaja/pilgrimphand.jpg

[Tuza]

Back again after clearing up among the disturbing Bushi-doves

and krisp-owles. Time to sharpen the claws and arranging the

feathers. Gotta be in condition to next mission.:wave:


http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt81/sakasvattaja/pilgrimphand.jpg

You do have the most gorgeous feathery friends Jorr, lucky man.

[jorr lundstrom]

Still some carcasses to take care of poooh

The Golden Eagle grabs the corpse of a female fox, who choked herself

last week. It began to stink and had to be moved to the other side of

the river of blame, from where it originated. Gotta keep this side of the river

clean.


http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt81/sakasvattaja/eagle-and-fox.jpg

[ThePythonicCow]

Really? I didn't know that. That is a real disappointment to hear. WhiteStar had his facts wrong. And he knew it. I had told him of the post report triangle, he used it, and he saw some (not all) of the actions I took as a consequence.

There appeared to be, from what I could see, members both pro-Horak and anti-Horak making excessive disturbance on Horak's threads (even this, his last thread.)

James Horak was encouraged to come here. We welcomed his presence. Enough disturbance was created in his threads, by members appearing to be on both sides, that he tired of it and chose to stop posting. We miss his presence and wish him well.

None of the above is new. It has happened before, I'm sure.

I continue to look for ways to improve this site's hospitable treatment of valued but controversial contributors.

[Icecold]

Really? I didn't know that. That is a real disappointment to hear. WhiteStar had his facts wrong. And he knew it. I had told him of the post report triangle, he used it, and he saw some (not all) of the actions I took as a consequence.

There appeared to be, from what I could see, members both pro-Horak and anti-Horak making excessive disturbance on Horak's threads (even this, his last thread.)

James Horak was encouraged to come here. We welcomed his presence. Enough disturbance was created in his threads, by members appearing to be on both sides, that he tired of it and chose to stop posting. We miss his presence and wish him well.

None of the above is new. It has happened before, I'm sure.

I continue to look for ways to improve this site's hospitable treatment of valued but controversial contributors.

I'd like to here Jame's view on your view Paul. JS

[raparee]

I joined this forum just over a week ago, right when the internal storm blew up, and added my 2 cents. I think it was on myfirst or second post that a member with a large # of posts questioned what my statements had to do with the thread, he obviously had not read some posts preceeding mine as I was addressing two previous posts , but as a new member did not know how to pull the quotes from other posts into mine . As is my style, I ignored him. Later this person launched a vicious attack on Mr Horak, questioning him about one specific minute of his video and then asked Mr Horak if he was on something. In my opinion, it is fine to disagree with someone ,but this sort of behaviour is uncalled for. Some people are just perched like predators waiting to pounce on unsuspecting members. Its all about the kill. I read every post on this thread tonite and noticed that any person with less than 60 total posts to their credit had a corteous manner and with a rising scale the ones with higher posts , to say they were acting in an uncorteous manner would be putting it mildly. Old wounds, axes to grind, I do not know, but sad, really sad. Have ye noticed that the# of guests is double the# of members?, what do you think they are thinking ? .Members calling fellow members rats, vermin, poison,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, we would be appalled if we witnessed children behaving like this . I expect this on the Jerry Springer show but HERE ON AVALON .Mr Ryan, my heart breaks for you, and it is only because I respect you so much that I will stay

[chelmostef]

I have come back after the weekend and I find yet another person has been chased away by the fellow Avalonians... This is beyond a joke it is not even funny...

A list of people who we, Avalonians have chased away.

James Horack
Atticus/Charles(We without doubt, shouted, belittled, and attacked him, he may still have been posting if we are as kind as we post about being)
Barry King
Heather Anderson
Plus many many more as history does prove

This is not a lesson any more about forum decorum. We have lost to many, we are losing because of how we act and because little or no protection in place as I have said before here-

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?14290-Time-to-move-on.&p=141902#post141902

We have people here who's ego are denying others opportunity of rational discussion. Though your actions and your bullish behavior you are turning Avalon into a waste land..

You probably don't even know who your are.

This is not one individual person, its a unaddressed problem. One we could easily change if we showed emapthy.

[Dennis Jonathan]

Is this thread for real?

Am I being punked?

I feel like someone is going to say: "The following was an example of how not to post. If this had been a real thread..."

Sorry if this offends, but some of the posts on pages 2-4 were just down right cruel.

We are better than this, arent we?

I respect your decision to leave, but lets not make a show of it every time. It just invites further division.


If I really want to leave something, I usually indicate it by doing so.

[3optic]

Chris has discredited himself countless times ..here's one example of that from the ego thread that his ego is so attached to that it needs to keep repeating itself in that thread..lol

greybeard wrote "All knowing ego must have an opinion on everything."

he has posted his OPINIONS a total of 1,774 times in a period of 12 months in this forum alone...lol ..
that was 4 days ago..in the last 4 days he has posted another 50 times..lol

just another example of being attached to his ego which is attached to this forum for egoic food..via eckhart tolle and Dr Hawkins distorted escapist philosophies that he parrots continually...

forums will become more and more chaotic as the energies become more chaotic..no stopping it,just observe and notice when you feed it...

...

I'm noticing a pattern with these hit pieces. The non-dualists you reference are not escapists. What is escapist about putting one's attention in the present moment? Who are your teachers, heros, role models? What do you believe in? I promise not to denounce or ridicule your answer as if I were handing down pronouncements from my lofty perch and fly away before you can defend your position.

[bashi]

The two problems might be apples and oranges but the subject is still about fruit. Especially spoiled fruit.

I have to correct you: It is not about spoiled fruits, but spoiled carrots

BTW: Who introduced this type of argument?

[sygh]

I and Maria are at the same point as James, on the treshold. We dont feel welcome here anymore.

Just a lot of silly games played. We came after the Charles- video, because we imagined some of

practical value was about to happen. But now Charles seem to have disappear

into thin air and I see the forum split in at least two groups, the disclosers and the spiritual.

The disclosers are intrested in wots out there and

the spiritual are interested in wots within. And they fight all the time.

And the mods are watching. And Bill says no more carrots because we have

more important things to discuss. Wot? When someone tries to lift the mood

by joking, that becomes a problem. Are we supposed to sit seriously and wait

for Godo? This is really sad. I know that a lot of Avalonians went to Richards forum

last wednesday and thereafter. And we read that the neophytes was left here. I dont

get that, neophyte to wot? I see myself as newbeginner in all aspects of life all the

time, but neophyte naaaaaaaaaa. Can someone explain wot this mess is supposed

to look like? Please.......................................................

I most certainly get what you are saying but look further. I have found some very interesting information on the Forums, specifically the forum on power and energy. Plus, I also just found some info on 9-11 following the money backwards. I was somewhat aware of this but in no way this exacting. It's a fabulous accounting. Check it out. And sorry if things have been strange.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16017306/911%20Final%20Unedited.pdf

[chelmostef]

The two problems might be apples and oranges but the subject is still about fruit.

I agree we can argue all day long or we can bite and discover the sweet taste.

I do not like arguments and I do not come to Avalon for that. I do not like the shouting and the demanding of answers. If you demanded something from me, I would never give it to you even at the detriment of myself.

In a given situation there will be inconsistencies from witnesses this is true to life. If the stories were exactly the same I would be worried.

Some people focus on the inconsistencies and miss the story, and though your actions deny an opportunity for someone else. This is selfish and egotistical no matter who is right.

Even if their are inconsistencies in a givern story.

Just let it be and let people learn.

[chelmostef]

I wrote this on the 16th of feb here I linked it earlier but I will put here as I think it should be seen-


Perhaps this is about protecting whistle blowers from the flack of the forum. Not just Atticus but any whistle blower can be hurt by callous and hate full comments coming from members of Avalon... The dynamics of Avalon change not just from new members but old members too. We say we are kind all loving spirits but we seem to have trouble putting that in the comment sections. This is by no means all but enough to make a solid difference.

I would suggest that all whistle blowers have there very own section of the forum that is protected from the flack, petty name calling and belittling, that has been happening.

This section would be a read all basis and perhaps invite only... And hurtful, spiteful commenters will be down graded so that commenting for them would not be allowed in those sections. Also the whistle blower has the right to down grade anyone from their section as deemed necessarily. So it would be like a buffer zone between the forums.

As we have seen many times before whistle blowers leave because of the actions from a few. If we want to continue this way that is fine, but it will keep happening unless the mechanics of the forum change. Or we grow up and stop being nasty... Of course this is to late for the past whistle blowers they are just pages in the book of Avalon.

Perhaps in the new paradigm that we are all waiting for will be nice, kind and loving to each other.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?14290-Time-to-move-on.&p=141902#post141902

We need a constructive way to move forward as we are not able to change our behavior.

Bill does a massive amount of work by bringing people to us and we Avalonians are undoing that work by chasing away everyone who comes here.

Who will be the next whisltle blower we will chase away? Thats even if they want to come here in the first place.

[torzbc]

What about an invite only group??

This would allow freedom of speech ( without the need to put down rat poison) and the ability for James, myself, OmetaOne and others of like-minds to be able to teach, learn from each other, discuss openly without distractions and grow within the security of a peaceful and clean environment.
Although we DON'T want it to be perceived as elitist, just a place to connect without the noise...
Time is of the essence, we are approaching Humanities "Bump" and we don't have time to argue about trivialities...
There are things that need to be taught and learnt now....

Thoughts are welcome please PM either myself, Whitestar, James or OmetaOne.

I have to be somewhere, I'll be back later :)

[greybeard]

I apologize to all concerned for entering into the skirmish of yesterday.

Im not a fighter by nature but tend to want to support the under dog or cat laughing

I think that a better way for whistle blowers/guests to put forward their views is to have Bill interview them first before entering into debate here,
Then everyone will have a clear view of where the whistle blower/guest is coming from and friction can be voided and intelligent debate continue.
Also simple clear language coming from any guest would help those who left school at an early age and are not up to lecturers presentation standards
Chris

[Jayke]

I'd never heard of James before, didn't know he was anyone special when I replied to him on his thread yet I found his attitude of people who were unfamiliar to his work to be a little on the rude side to the say the least, surely an insider joining avalon shouldn't be exempt from basic courtesy and manners...

[Inanna]

I just don't understand it anymore. I've been away for one day, and I'm shocked of what had happened. People are leaving Avalon and for the first time I can understand why: countless posts and threads to read, but with no interesting content other than fighting each other, defending each other, etc..., and I'm getting a bit sick of it (after trying to keep up for a few weeks).
I feel the need to repeat this: "some of the members seem to have too much free time on their hands."
Dr. Phill (I know, I know...) would say: "This situation needs a hero. Someone has to be the first one to stand up and stop doing what he/she is doing and make a change." Some of you have been that person, but many are not.
I'm making a change: this will be the very last thing I will ever write in a thread like this. I'm going to concentrate on the threads that really matter to me: the information sharing, constructive threads with interesting facts, where one inspires one another.
I would recommend others to do so too. Maybe just out of respect for Bill Ryan and his life's work, if you have to have a reason. Otherwise, Avalon will be poisoned even further until there's no air left for anyone to breathe.

EDIT: the change will not be difficult, because I just saw that there are a lot of new and interesting threads to read. I'm so glad ^^

[torzbc]

James is NOT an insider......
He is an OUTSIDER ( literally!!), and he is on our side, the side of goodness, truth and a change to the way this planet is run by the Social Engineers....
Also, James's posts are written so that the reader gains MUCH MORE than just the words written... yes they can be deep and intellectual but I have found from in-depth experience that is IS worth reading beyond just words and opening yourself to understanding... Jayke, no matter how hard he tried here, even the best of us can become exasperated by the amount of drivel that was posted by some of the rats that are lurking...who have ( to our benefit) ousted themselves tremendously with their red flags flying....
If you found that he was short with you at all, I can assure you it was not something YOU said.
James only gets tetchy when people don't read properly what is actually written and just scan the post in hopes of a simple answer..... none of this is simple, the Social Engineers have made it that way deliberately...
Divide and Conquer.....
He is not rude, has never been as long as I have known him... He just does not suffer fools gladly... there just isn't enough time left to do what needs to be done...

The NWO/Illuminati will stop at NOTHING, even resorting to breaking this planet in two, in order to achieve their goals....
Does anyone think that ET would WANT this planet AFTER they have pretty much polluted and raped it?
If they can't have it, they will make sure that no-one will..... WE, NEED to STOP them ASAP. The ONLY way to do that is to shine a light on their heinous deeds and schemes and expose them.

If we truthers, all of us, don't arouse the Moral Outrage of the people here and give them some clarity with regards the corruption and injustices that the Social Engineers have placed up the people of Earth for way too long, then the EMVs might as well pull the plug and let loose the Sun and end this experiment...
However, it would be a tragic shame to have lost the astounding greatness of Humanities History here....
We ARE an incredible species for all our faults...

[chelmostef]

What about an invite only group??

This would allow freedom of speech ( without the need to put down rat poison) and the ability for James, myself, OmetaOne and others of like-minds to be able to teach, learn from each other, discuss openly without distractions and grow within the security of a peaceful and clean environment.
Although we DON'T want it to be perceived as elitist, just a place to connect without the noise...
Time is of the essence, we are approaching Humanities "Bump" and we don't have time to argue about trivialities...
There are things that need to be taught and learnt now....

Thoughts are welcome please PM either myself, Whitestar, James or OmetaOne.

I have to be somewhere, I'll be back later :)

I really like this idea, perhaps a room in Avalon were everyone is welcome but it is specially created for a person of special status due to their work outside of Avalon.

The thread/room could be moderated by the whistle blower, the moderation status only applies in their room. Allowing them to chuck out disruptive people from the class room... Any other discussion about their work could be carried on outside the room but would not effect the class in hand.

Somthing like that maybe, anything is better than what we have as it is proven to be not working.

Or invite only what ever, people please put your ideas down or a way we can move forward.

I have to go to an interview, catch you all later I hope we can work somthing out

:)

[andrewgreen]

Im a football fan and regularly visit a members only forum. Its highly regarded with a long waiting list as it protects ITK's (in the know people), the main reason people visit a football forum.

Any questioning of peoples integrity who are providing inside knowledge results in a ban. People therefore have the choice if they want to listen to it or not. Its the mods and admins responsibility to protect the forum users by them making the call on a posters credibility and whether they should remain as they are in a position to check sources ect. If we can't give the mods and admins this small degree of trust then maybe its not the right sight for us.

On the question of freedom of speech its a case of people having the freedom to be able to speak openly without being chastised about things like they would in most other envorments. Currently people are being chased away. I don't think open dialogue and and debate would be affected as long as people knew they had to discuss the content that was given and not the person. 'Play the ball and not the man'. I think it would be a small concession to make for a rule that would potentionaly help the site to flourish. If it works for 'low density' (:)) football supporting beings' I don't see why it could be a success here.

[Snowbird]

I joined this forum just over a week ago, right when the internal storm blew up, and added my 2 cents. I think it was on myfirst or second post that a member with a large # of posts questioned what my statements had to do with the thread, he obviously had not read some posts preceeding mine as I was addressing two previous posts , but as a new member did not know how to pull the quotes from other posts into mine . As is my style, I ignored him. Later this person launched a vicious attack on Mr Horak, questioning him about one specific minute of his video and then asked Mr Horak if he was on something. In my opinion, it is fine to disagree with someone ,but this sort of behaviour is uncalled for. Some people are just perched like predators waiting to pounce on unsuspecting members. Its all about the kill. I read every post on this thread tonite and noticed that any person with less than 60 total posts to their credit had a corteous manner and with a rising scale the ones with higher posts , to say they were acting in an uncorteous manner would be putting it mildly. Old wounds, axes to grind, I do not know, but sad, really sad. Have ye noticed that the# of guests is double the# of members?, what do you think they are thinking ? .Members calling fellow members rats, vermin, poison,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, we would be appalled if we witnessed children behaving like this . I expect this on the Jerry Springer show but HERE ON AVALON .Mr Ryan, my heart breaks for you, and it is only because I respect you so much that I will stay

raparee, thank you for this post and welcome to this forum.

I was going to stay clear of this thread, but I decided to respond not only to your post, but to the confusion circling this forum.

James Horak's viewpoints are controversial to some. What he has to state in some areas is not accepted by these. He has a right to his opinion and his viewpoints and should not be brought up short because a few on this forum are having a bad week.

There are currently energies of a universal type that are causing disturbances in some people and animals. Spring is also approaching here in the states. I have been sensing these energies and spending much more time in meditation than I normally do. It helps immensely. Meditation grounds us and centers us.

We are experiencing a time of separation and separation is difficult. This will settle down as people make decisions as to which direction is the best for them to travel. We are all on this earth on a journey and there are times when our paths take different directions. Within a few short weeks this separation anxiety will calm down and this forum will return to the business of discussion.

Thanks for joining us! :thumb:

[Fred Steeves]

I for one am not going anywhere. If I were to decide to leave there would be no announcement, it would just happen. But think about it, if you can't be light of foot enough to maneuver through the occasional mine field in a gold mine like this place, how are you going to fare when the s**t really hits the fan in the real world, up close, personal and in your face?

Cheers,
Fred S.

[Lord Sidious]

I joined this forum just over a week ago, right when the internal storm blew up, and added my 2 cents. I think it was on myfirst or second post that a member with a large # of posts questioned what my statements had to do with the thread, he obviously had not read some posts preceeding mine as I was addressing two previous posts , but as a new member did not know how to pull the quotes from other posts into mine . As is my style, I ignored him. Later this person launched a vicious attack on Mr Horak, questioning him about one specific minute of his video and then asked Mr Horak if he was on something. In my opinion, it is fine to disagree with someone ,but this sort of behaviour is uncalled for. Some people are just perched like predators waiting to pounce on unsuspecting members. Its all about the kill. I read every post on this thread tonite and noticed that any person with less than 60 total posts to their credit had a corteous manner and with a rising scale the ones with higher posts , to say they were acting in an uncorteous manner would be putting it mildly. Old wounds, axes to grind, I do not know, but sad, really sad. Have ye noticed that the# of guests is double the# of members?, what do you think they are thinking ? .Members calling fellow members rats, vermin, poison,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, we would be appalled if we witnessed children behaving like this . I expect this on the Jerry Springer show but HERE ON AVALON .Mr Ryan, my heart breaks for you, and it is only because I respect you so much that I will stay

Excellent points, thanks for pointing them out.
A high post count doesn't mean you are wise, it just means you made a lot of posts.
And there are people who think being on the net means they can behave in a manner that they would never think of doing in real life.
I see comments on the forum to people and I think to myself ''That guy/girl would never say that to their face'' and I know that to be true.
It is a lack of respect and courtesy.
Now, I know that Bill doesn't appreciate this type of behaviour and he will uninvite people as quick as a flash, I have seen him do it.
So, if any of you see this behaviour, hit the report button, the little yellow triangle.
Oh, and welcome to Avalon as well.

[lightblue]

andrewgreen
Im a football fan and regularly visit a members only forum. Its highly regarded with a long waiting list as it protects ITK's (in the know people), the main reason people visit a football forum.

Any questioning of peoples integrity who are providing inside knowledge results in a ban. People therefore have the choice if they want to listen to it or not. Its the mods and admins responsibility to protect the forum users by them making the call on a posters credibility and whether they should remain as they are in a position to check sources ect. If we can't give the mods and admins this small degree of trust then maybe its not the right sight for us.

On the question of freedom of speech its a case of people having the freedom to be able to speak openly without being chastised about things like they would in most other envorments. Currently people are being chased away. I don't think open dialogue and and debate would be affected as long as people knew they had to discuss the content that was given and not the person. 'Play the ball and not the man'. I think it would be a small concession to make for a rule that would potentionaly help the site to flourish. If it works for 'low density' () football supporting beings' I don't see why it could be a success here.


if it were by other forums' rules, many many people here would have been banned for questioning charles's integrity (though some have left of their own accord for the same reason)...but they haven't and i am happy for that... :yu: l

.

[greybeard]

What about an invite only group??

This would allow freedom of speech ( without the need to put down rat poison) and the ability for James, myself, OmetaOne and others of like-minds to be able to teach, learn from each other, discuss openly without distractions and grow within the security of a peaceful and clean environment.
Although we DON'T want it to be perceived as elitist, just a place to connect without the noise...
Time is of the essence, we are approaching Humanities "Bump" and we don't have time to argue about trivialities...
There are things that need to be taught and learnt now....

Thoughts are welcome please PM either myself, Whitestar, James or OmetaOne.

I have to be somewhere, I'll be back later :)

I really like this idea, perhaps a room in Avalon were everyone is welcome but it is specially created for a person of special status due to their work outside of Avalon.

The thread/room could be moderated by the whistle blower, the moderation status only applies in their room. Allowing them to chuck out disruptive people from the class room... Any other discussion about their work could be carried on outside the room but would not effect the class in hand.

Somthing like that maybe, anything is better than what we have as it is proven to be not working.

Or invite only what ever, people please put your ideas down or a way we can move forward.

I have to go to an interview, catch you all later I hope we can work somthing out

:)

The facility is already here.
You can find it at the near very bottom right side
The Ashana Dene material cause a lot of controversy at one point so it was then restricted to invite only.
So I think you can still have a by invite only discusion group.
Ask a mod
Hope that is helpful
Chris

[SKAWF]

i'm in an odd position.
i was one of the intitial influx.
in the back of my mind there has always been an picture of how this place was before i arrived.
i cant truly know how things were, but i tended to pay more attention to the posts of senior members,
just to get a feel for the place.
i thought about how it must have been for them to watch the fabric of this forum obliterated.
and for what its worth, i apologise to you for that. like it or not i was here taking part in it.

but even with a massive influx of people, and the disruption it brings.......
i think actually, what there are, are a few rotten apples.
you can lock most of the antagonism down to a few.
and its not like we dont recognise when its going on.
one of humanity's greatest strength's is its tolarance.
but that tolarance is exploited sometimes.
i do trust in higher things. ultimately it will all settle down.
as time goes on, and genuine users move forward,
the wreckers will expose themselves.
in the mean time, while the damage is being done............

i hate violence. but i know that sometimes, it has to be employed,
or at least, sometimes, when it concerns the welfare of something you care about,
inactivity is not an option.
this is an old chestnut for me.......

The only reason they take the p*ss, is because when they do, they meet no resistance at all.

i use this extreme analogy.

you've lived in your house for two years, you're stood out front one day and you see someone
walking up with an unlit petrol bomb. you watch as its lit, and thrown through your front window.
you witniss your living room burst into flames, and you allow the arsonist to walk away unchallenged.

sometimes doing nothing is not an option, but at what point in proceedings would you step in?
where or what is the line, where something becomes unacceptable?.

is it when someone shows a lack of regard for someone else, or the customs of the forum?
its as obvious as 30 people trying to build something, and one or two disrupting the process or destroying the work.

to those who have left, or are thinking of going,
you know how when you reach a state of understanding or accord with someone
it goes down onto a deeper level..... ,
that accord can withstand many storms. the ups and downs.
until something happens which is on a deeper level than the original understanding.
then it breaks.
i ask you to wiegh up, all that you have gained from this forum, what it means to you, and the level its on, vs

the destructive, disruptive events that have occured of late. and the level THEY are on.

are you really saying that the destructive stuff is on a deeper level than the good things you've gained here?
or that you are willing and prepared to have your reality influenced by a few pitiful individuals?

all thats required is a clean up.

steve

[raparee]

THE PEN IS MIGHTIER THAN THE SWORD, AND LIKE THE SWORD CAN INFLICT HORRIFIC WOUNDS. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE AVALONIANS, WIELD IT WITH RESTRAINT, WIELD IT WITH COMPASSION, STOP AND THINK AS YOU HOLD THE PEN AND THE SWORD, WHO ARE YOUR FINGERS POINTING TOWARDS. I leave you with this advise from people far higher in consciousness than me, I know most of the people in Avalon are aware of it, maybe its time to embrace it.............It is time to speak your Truth. Create your community, be good to each other. And do not look outside yourself for the leader. This could be a good time! ~ "There is a river flowing now very fast. It is so great and swift that there are those who will be afraid. They will try to hold onto the shore. They will feel they are being torn apart and will suffer greatly. Know the river has its own destination. ~ The Elders say we must let go of the shore, push off into the middle of the river, keep our eyes open and our heads above water. And I say, see who is in there with you and celebrate."
— Hopi Elder Prayer

[grannyfranny100]

I didn't even know James Horak was here. I have enjoyed him since I first found him on the Kevin Smith Radio Show. I hope he doesn't decide to leave. His announcement is giving us a chance to rethink what is going on at Avalon and develop some strategies.

Chicodoodoo suggested the little triangle (post #16). I never knew it's purpose. Thank you. I think this could be a valuable tool for James and all of us. It is a way to avoid segregation and retreat into a separate area. The community needs to stand up for what it considers appropriate behavior and the triangle is a valuable tool with Moderator intervention.

Ever since the Charles material, it seems a virus has infected this forum. Is it part of Charles's stated assignment to destroy Bill? Is it NWO infiltration to divide and conquer our community? Is it just teenage wanna' be popular by participation in a "cool" forum? Frankly I don't know.

But I do feel that if the world is going into restructuring - one world or multiple small communities, this is good practice for the future. We can not passively let others overrun this community. The community needs to have standards and those who don't accept the standards need to understand what is acceptable and move on if it isn't what they want. The triangle report feature is a way to "vote" on what is appropriate and what is not and alert Bill about problems as we perceive them.

Today so many people seem to feel freedom means they can do what they want but refuse to understand that they must be responsible for their actions. Instead they seem to think that any thing that restricts their freedom is fascism.

James Horak, how about starting a thread that addresses whether the triangle approach is giving away our power to moderators or is a way to improve our community. I am sure you could have a valuable viewpoint on this and the use of the triangle would ensure that we stay on topic.

Thanks for your consideration.

[Rocky_Shorz]

Granny,

James has been called out on Doctoring photos and having them planted in NASA...

from his own Bio.

I would like to see all of his threads closed and no further discussions until he is ready to answer some tough questions.

[grannyfranny100]

Rocky_Shorz

Thanks for your info. Where can I view this information?

Thanks,

Granny Franny

[Rocky_Shorz]

search for James Horak Bio

you will find it everywhere, it has been copied and pasted to tons of sites...

I asked very kindly for an answer from James, let a thread hang for a day...

those who look up to James instantly jumped into battle, but we at Avalon are still waiting for answers...

when you go on an interview you need to expect questions from your resume.

to get angry at the questioner and not yourself for what is written on your resume, doesn't do anything to help move forward into a job.

his response was written in tears there is so much pain behind this...

why isn't he angry at his student and more importantly, why even mention the NASA employee other than to take credit for him as a Master?

I'm done with James until he feels ready.

[Buchanan561]

This is a general response to many statements made here...

Where does this spirit of ATTACK come from? If it's not what we would expect of Avalonians, why is this now the predominant spirit on many threads? Who in their right mind would even want to START a thread?

I don't know if there's a kind of split between older folks here who DO have a concept of dignity and courtesy, and younger people who have been trained by the media and culture to toss dignity and courtesy to the wind? It is possible to disagree without insulting anybody, but not if you've been raised with Jerry Springer as your model.

I was part of PA1. The same thing happened there with the Whistleblowers who thought they would find intelligent discussion on Avalon. Every one of them came under similar discourteous badgering from people who wouldn't shut up long enough for the Whistleblowers to get a word in edgewise. Every one of the Whistleblowers left, pretty much saying they'd never do this again. I'm surprised that Wade Frazier has been able to hang in here.

If this is a cultural mass-media "norm" being played out, it indicates just how thoroughly well TPTB have done their job of destroying our ability to form community. We can't even be civil with each other!

Spiritual growth and awareness leads to people taking responsibilty for their own actions, what they say and how they say it. They learn to impose self-limits on expression in order to preserve something of greater value in the group. That principle doesn't seem to be working in this forum.

I agree that the PTB have done a good job but the obverse of that coin is how poor a job we have done in throwing off our sheepskins and standing on two legs instead of four. There is going to be an outflow of people from here. I am almost out the door and some will cheer. When those cheering realize their whole posting careers were based on commenting on comments, or picking the bones of thoughtful posts, it will be a rude awakening.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Please give us another chance, the noise is finally settling down...

It has settled down because the job has been accomplished.


Modwiz: I agree with you completely. The way this forum is arranged should all change. These threads are useless and without any form to allow for teaching, learning, becoming. It is just post after post of just conversations and small talk and bickering. I find rare time that I actually learn from here except when someone takes a stand and really 'talks' about some topic. And Modwiz you are one of those who will stand up and say something worth copying and pasting into a file. There are others also but their words get lost in the fray and in time end up in the old log cemetary.

I ran across a thread a few days ago that I was just looking for when I ran across this one, and it was started by a member whose thread title was something about one of the strangest experiences they have ever had. (I need to find that thread) But he started the thread and stayed right with it and after each person told their story he would do the next post and would ask the person what it had meant to them. Cottage Rose did the same thing also with the thread she started for Gyspy Woman. Rose stayed with the thread to the end. It turned out well even though the person it was created for kinda went wild, but other than that it worked well. No trolls on it either. ?????

the author, well This continued through the thread. The purpose of this thread.....the starter of it was an author and he was looking for material for his next book. His other book was on the forum for free. Now that is one way to use a thread, but not the almost useless way we have been doing it. What would be wrong with a complete forum change? A new page with each thread 'owned' and useing it to enlighten others regarding some topic. And with a response from the thread maker in between.

Something that would be valuable. The way forums are now they are not very conducive to education, and that is what they should be for. Not a gossip place where one can sit all day at the computer and gossip. Look at the beating we gave Charles. And then everyone complaining because he appears to have disappeared. (which he has not)but he had to escape from us.

What james wanted should be the rule and not the exception. I am rambling. I am sorry. But things need to change. and we should all work together to make this change happen. No disrespect to Bill here. But we do need change. This old form is obsolete. Emma


post note I found the thread and the creator of the thread.

What is your unusual Experiences Story by King Anthony

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?14275-

What-Is-Your-Unusual-Experience-Story

[Mike]

yet another "i'm leaving Avalon" thread. (GROAN) i've enjoyed James' presence here, but i've pretty much overdosed on these exit announcements.

people are leaving and going...where??? Avalon is the best "alternative" site in the world. this type of bickering sh#t happens in all forums, eventually. in fact, it's worlds worse in most. you can't run from it. it must be dealt with here.

i've yet to hear someone blame darth vader for the chaos in this site, but i won't be surprised when it happens. i DO acknowledge that there are idiots out there with disruptive intent, but not all polarizing or even obnoxious members are "plants", undercover agents, or some sort of nefarious off world species worried about the avalon effect on their evil empire. write4change said it somewhere and Modwiz said it too: we're responsible if Avalon implodes. its OUR responsibility. so lets ride out the storm and see where it takes us.

[torzbc]

Granny,

James has been called out on Doctoring photos and having them planted in NASA...

from his own Bio.

I would like to see all of his threads closed and no further discussions until he is ready to answer some tough questions.

Wouldn't you just... that would solve the annoying spread of clarity that some members seem to have got a whiff of...

The answers to your questions have already been answered in other threads, even some of the other posters pointed out to you the facts and said you were twisting the truth for you ( or your masters) ends...

You are beginning to sound like a stuck record... but then that's' what compartmentalization does for you....

[Intraphase]

I remember how exciting it was when Avalon was set up. The ground Crew... remember? I havent posted much at all lately. I'm still waiting for everything to calm down. But I do agree with the idea that instead of letting someone belittle you and be insulting and argumentative that we should use the yellow attention triangle and not give the person the satisfaction of arguing back.
We cant throw this away. I think that all the members who really really care about what happens to Avalon should now come forward and take back our forum. We cannot let this get the better of us.

Moving to another forum just seems pointless to me because all we end up doing is moving from forum to forum. We have to hold our ground from this negative situation.

Positve outcome.

Hang tough!!

I agree, we have to make a stand and declare that our colours don't run, as the Hells Angels would say.
Question, is Avalon worth the effort? HELL YEAH.
How many more people do we have to have run off before we get the idea?
Even if we don't like/agree with someone's outlook, so what? I don't agree with everyone here either, you don't all agree with me.
I can live with that.
Please, a bit more respect for others opinions and a bit less of the narky factor.
Thanks

Good try Milord,

unfortunately, hit a brick wall here. However I can see your point. Takes a special kind of person to carry on under these circumstances. You and I have probably seen the worst of the worst elsewhere. That helps us. Some others haven't the experience or willingness to engage in constant rounds of debates. As you know it becomes quite tiring. Many here are disheartened and are newbies to contentious debate.

Maybe the mods could start a mentor list for experienced forum participants who know the ins and outs of forum participation and are willing to do the buddy system with newbies and extreme newbies; especially those who have "never" participated in a forum. I've been using forums since 1995 on Usenet where every positive and negative form of behavior is possible from massive spamming to multiple ID's to the most intricate and artful use of psychological warfare. Good examples were groups that served as some sort of news outlet for real world ongoing concerns where money changed hands.

Maybe a question on the application "Is this your first time participating in a discussion forum?" That way mods could flag them to request someone on the veteran buddy list that might be compatible with the newbie to help them understand the psychology of group discussions.

I'm a good example.I read all of the JH material and watched all the videos.
If he was hitchhiking down an icy road in a Montana snow storm only my desire to someday meet Jesus and shake his hand would get me to slow down and take the risk he wasn't packing a gun fresh from his latest kill.

I gave him reverse speech examples to examine and he ignored them.
He spoke of the moral themes of the movie Dogville which is a simple Hollywood style encryption of the God & Rachel story. A lot of people in the alternative media have been so busy chasing dead ends they can't see the forest through the trees.

I feel I was cheated out of two bushels of carrots and that issue rankles me.

[K626]

yet another "i'm leaving Avalon" thread. (GROAN) i've enjoyed James' presence here, but i've pretty much overdosed on these exit announcements.

people are leaving and going...where??? Avalon is the best "alternative" site in the world. this type of bickering sh#t happens in all forums, eventually. in fact, it's worlds worse in most. you can't run from it. it must be dealt with here.

i've yet to hear someone blame darth vader for the chaos in this site, but i won't be surprised when it happens. i DO acknowledge that there are idiots out there with disruptive intent, but not all polarizing or even obnoxious members are "plants", undercover agents, or some sort of nefarious off world species worried about the avalon effect on their evil empire. write4change said it somewhere and Modwiz said it too. we're responsible if Avalon implodes. its OUR responsibility. so lets ride out the storm and see where it takes us.

Basically leaving threads should be banned. Say your goodbyes to those who are close via PM. End of story.

Soon the where is X ? Or I'm thinking of leaving/nearly leaving/leaving came back/ I've left in spirit but still here in body/ :p threads will oveload the collective resonant field and antartica will melt....I'm getting sick of it. :painkiller:

No offense intended to anyone btw.

love

K

[modwiz]

Really? I didn't know that. That is a real disappointment to hear. WhiteStar had his facts wrong. And he knew it. I had told him of the post report triangle, he used it, and he saw some (not all) of the actions I took as a consequence.

There appeared to be, from what I could see, members both pro-Horak and anti-Horak making excessive disturbance on Horak's threads (even this, his last thread.)

James Horak was encouraged to come here. We welcomed his presence. Enough disturbance was created in his threads, by members appearing to be on both sides, that he tired of it and chose to stop posting. We miss his presence and wish him well.

None of the above is new. It has happened before, I'm sure.

I continue to look for ways to improve this site's hospitable treatment of valued but controversial contributors.

I'd like to here Jame's view on your view Paul. JS

Ice I have to concur with you here and since you took the high road I will take the low road.

WTF? Say what?!?!?!?!?!?

Both sides created a disturbance?

Do you have a take, or perhaps know James' thoughts, about the disturbance of his supporters
Torz?

UPDATE

Torz was kind enough to PM me with a reply to my question to her it read:

"What a crock of ****..."

That was my take on it too.

So a statement from a mod of a perception of the disturbances coming from both sides is posited for consumption by the forum. This is disturbing because even if it is completely innocent it still gets consumed and filed by many as fact.

Icecold picked up on it immediately and I followed up on it. Tors has confirmed it.

The disturbances came from detractors only!

Any other opinion is misinformed and suspect.

The "looking glass" is getting a lot of polish these days.

[Intraphase]

Really? I didn't know that. That is a real disappointment to hear. WhiteStar had his facts wrong. And he knew it. I had told him of the post report triangle, he used it, and he saw some (not all) of the actions I took as a consequence.

There appeared to be, from what I could see, members both pro-Horak and anti-Horak making excessive disturbance on Horak's threads (even this, his last thread.)

James Horak was encouraged to come here. We welcomed his presence. Enough disturbance was created in his threads, by members appearing to be on both sides, that he tired of it and chose to stop posting. We miss his presence and wish him well.

None of the above is new. It has happened before, I'm sure.

I continue to look for ways to improve this site's hospitable treatment of valued but controversial contributors.

That above contains a series of good points.
Creating content and presenting content to an audience are two distinct functions.

Dylan's got an old line in "Hard Rains a Gonna Fall" ... "I'll know my song well before I start singing"
As an aspiring writer there is a constant struggle between the art and the craft of delivering the narrative.
Respect for ones audience is paramount. In a forum setting being adept with hecklers is an art form worth learning.

[torzbc]

Intraphase, he didn't ignore your examples, he was kept busy by the shills with distracting and libellous questions, he had so little time to answer anything fully, they didn't want him here... I wonder if other "Cottage Industry" NAMES would have been treated with such hate and distrust.... I somehow doubt it... as you yourself said "A lot of people in the alternative media have been so busy chasing dead ends they can't see the forest through the trees."

[granny]

Lord Sidious:


What you say is true, that is why we can't give up.

The thread manglers are not affecting me personally. I'm immune to it.

Its my friends that concern me, I don't want to see them hurt or feel that have to leave.

Such good souls. This is the tragedy for me.

What a cleansing its been and continues to be. Torquemada would be proud of some.
Not giving up ... just trying to side step the pinched faced snarks.
:) Granny

[Mike]

yet another "i'm leaving Avalon" thread. (GROAN) i've enjoyed James' presence here, but i've pretty much overdosed on these exit announcements.

people are leaving and going...where??? Avalon is the best "alternative" site in the world. this type of bickering sh#t happens in all forums, eventually. in fact, it's worlds worse in most. you can't run from it. it must be dealt with here.

i've yet to hear someone blame darth vader for the chaos in this site, but i won't be surprised when it happens. i DO acknowledge that there are idiots out there with disruptive intent, but not all polarizing or even obnoxious members are "plants", undercover agents, or some sort of nefarious off world species worried about the avalon effect on their evil empire. write4change said it somewhere and Modwiz said it too. we're responsible if Avalon implodes. its OUR responsibility. so lets ride out the storm and see where it takes us.

Basically leaving threads should be banned. Say your goodbyes to those who are close via PM. End of story.

Soon the where is X ? Or I'm thinking of leaving/nearly leaving/leaving came back/ I've left in spirit but still here in body/ :p threads will oveload the collective resonant field and antartica will melt....I'm getting sick of it. :painkiller:

No offense intended to anyone btw.

love

K

still laughing at this lol!

[Buchanan561]

What about an invite only group??

This would allow freedom of speech ( without the need to put down rat poison) and the ability for James, myself, OmetaOne and others of like-minds to be able to teach, learn from each other, discuss openly without distractions and grow within the security of a peaceful and clean environment.
Although we DON'T want it to be perceived as elitist, just a place to connect without the noise...
Time is of the essence, we are approaching Humanities "Bump" and we don't have time to argue about trivialities...
There are things that need to be taught and learnt now....

Thoughts are welcome please PM either myself, Whitestar, James or OmetaOne.

I have to be somewhere, I'll be back later :)

I really like this idea, perhaps a room in Avalon were everyone is welcome but it is specially created for a person of special status due to their work outside of Avalon.

The thread/room could be moderated by the whistle blower, the moderation status only applies in their room. Allowing them to chuck out disruptive people from the class room... Any other discussion about their work could be carried on outside the room but would not effect the class in hand.

Somthing like that maybe, anything is better than what we have as it is proven to be not working.

Or invite only what ever, people please put your ideas down or a way we can move forward.

I have to go to an interview, catch you all later I hope we can work somthing out

:)

It could be an invite room to start with. And when the thread is finished and all the information is there for others to learn from then the thread could be closed and become a read only thread. Then a side by side thread could be started for those who had important questions they would like to ask and or information they would like to add to the discussion could be posted.

Then others who had been a part of the invite only could frequent that thread and add to the discussion. This way there would always be teachers and learners, then the open thread where there will again be teachers and learners.

Perhaps in time everyone would learn how to act in a setting that is for learning and teaching and in time the trouble makers would perhaps want to learn and settle down, or it could just be understood that perhaps they should leave and look for inspiration elsewhere. We can't save them all is an old saying, well it is true we cannot. Some we have to allow to leave. Emma Allow?? asked to leave.:sad:

[lightblue]

chelmostef:
......I really like this idea, perhaps a room in Avalon were everyone is welcome but it is specially created for a person of special status due to their work outside of Avalon..........

what?:blink: so avalon to become a media outlet for a person with a "special status"? a place where a so called discussion would be encouraged only if it served as a vehicle for the "special person's " argument/doctrine and where the uncompliant participants in the discussion would be labeled bothersome, unrully? just who would be policing that? a person with a "special status"? :blink:

sounds like a clean cut deffinition of a CULT to me... :stop:

please, what is it you understand by a "special satus"?

p.s. as it is, it is pefectly possible to create a sub-forum (with mods' permission) with members who wish to be there...

by the way, this has always been an open forum....:yu:

.

.

[Chicodoodoo]

My main concern with the policing of the threads is that valuable people are leaving Avalon. Some are forcibly unsubscribed, and some leave because they feel unwelcome or abused. I consider everyone here valuable, regardless of their opinions, unless they are deliberately disrupting a discussion.

It bothers me to no end that people have been forcibly unsubscribed for WHAT they say rather than their disruptive behavior. I am convinced that dissent has great value, and that like-mindedness is not as desirable as people think. Our strength lies in our diversity, and that includes the diversity of our respective opinions.

As far as forcibly unsubscribing members, I have suggested a "three strikes" policy here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?15437-An-important-announcement-following-the-closure-of-the-WORM-TONGUE-thread&p=163034#post163034). I do not know if my suggestion has been noticed or considered by the Avalon PTBs.

With respect to members feeling unwelcome or abused, I suggested we pay attention to what we say to others (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?15437-An-important-announcement-following-the-closure-of-the-WORM-TONGUE-thread&p=163098#post163098), and that we police our threads (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?15754-Notice-to-the-people-of-Avalon&p=167818#post167818) using the "Report post" button when others fail to police themselves.

And I would like to encourage James and all the others that have given up on Avalon to please reconsider. Times are tougher now, and I'm convinced they will get a lot worse. People show their true colors when they are stressed, and it can get awfully ugly. But also remember, people show their true colors when they are stressed, and it can be awe-inspiring and beautiful beyond comprehension. Which people will we be?

[linz2d]

I too shall take my leave. I must admit that I have taken much interest in Project Camelot and Avalon and must thank Bill, Kerry and others for opening my eyes to some hidden truths of this world. I have learned so much in my very short time here but I feel a strong urge to move on. One can theories, hypothesis and criticize all they want but if they don't put their beliefs into practice then it a worthless endeavor and that is why I feel that I must now put my beliefs into practice.

Spiritually speaking I know the direction in which I must go, the articles, videos and the views of others on Avalon have only provided the confirmation. This destination which I travel to has been known for thousands of years but the path I take is mine alone, as it is different for everyone.

As for Charles he serves a purpose for some but not for others. But here is something interesting to take into consideration:


Rulers of the World -The Charles Material, began late January 2011, 190+ threads, 26,000+ posts
General Discussion, began March 2010, 2,800+ threads with 49,000+ posts

We see that in such a short time there has already been more than half the number of posts in the Rulers of the World -The Charles material as apposed to the long running General Discussion section. Look at the posts that Charles himself has posted, most are simple responses and hold little detail or value. Yet what is the reason for the high number of posts in this section, the answer is simple most people need a hero and a villain in their lives. Charles has taken on both roles to some he is a cure to others a plague. And as a result we see both sides fighting it out.

But I would just like to remind everyone that there is more knowledge hidden throughout Avalon than one can find in the Charles section alone.

May peace be with you.

:bolt:

[Rocky_Shorz]

a three strike rule sounds good but I'm watching the kicked returning again and again, it is almost time to close entry to Avalon...

[lightblue]

My main concern with the policing of the threads is that valuable people are leaving Avalon. Some are forcibly unsubscribed, and some leave because they feel unwelcome or abused. I consider everyone here valuable, regardless of their opinions, unless they are deliberately disrupting a discussion.

who has been forcibly unsubscribed?

for every banned individual there always is a reason - stated by either bill or mods' team...some ending up banned is not a new thing...some come back, some don't...there;s always new members coming in, which is good..

for the ones who don't feel welcome - i really am sorry..however, this happens to be an open forum, a discussion group made up of adults..if some of the adults need a special treatment, then this is not the place...this isn a therapy or in any way regimented group..everyone is welcome for as long as they want to conrtibute and learn... best wishes :wink: l


.
.

[Icecold]

They either return or go to one of the 'bash Avalon to death' sites. Bill, mods, all members are targets.

¤=[Post Update]=¤



My main concern with the policing of the threads is that valuable people are leaving Avalon. Some are forcibly unsubscribed, and some leave because they feel unwelcome or abused. I consider everyone here valuable, regardless of their opinions, unless they are deliberately disrupting a discussion.

who has been forcibly unsubscribed?

for every banned individual there always is a reason - stated by either bill or mods' team...some ending up banned is not a new thing...some come back, some don't...there;s always new members coming in, which is good..

for the ones who don't feel welcome - i really am sorry..however, this happens to be an open forum, a discussion group made up of adults..if some of the adults need a special treatment, then this is not the place...this isn a therapy or in any way regimented group..everyone is welcome for as long as they want to conrtibute and learn... best wishes :wink: l


.
.


who has been forcibly unsubscribed?

LMAO. You must be joking.

[grannyfranny100]

Rocky_Shorz

As per your recommendation post #131, I read James Horuk's bio. Plus I also read some other posters' reminders that you have stated this before and were refuted. Please provide a specific link to support your accusations; otherwise, I will assume you are just trying to damage Horuk's reputation for unknown reasons.

It seems odd that you would want to damage your own reputation when you have 474 thanks on this forum.

Thank you,

Granny Franny

[lightblue]

icecold:
They either return or go to one of the 'bash Avalon to death' sites. Bill, mods, all members are targets.


you know, even if that were true - i'm not fussed.. best wishes :yu: l

.edit to add:

icecold:
LMAO. You must be joking.

no, i am not joking.... :no: l

.

.

[Rocky_Shorz]

Rocky_Shorz

As per your recommendation post #131, I read James Horuk's bio. Plus I also read some other posters' reminders that you have stated this before and were refuted. Please provide a specific link to support your accusations; otherwise, I will assume you are just trying to damage Horuk's reputation for unknown reasons.

It seems odd that you would want to damage your own reputation when you have 474 thanks on this forum.

Thank you,

Granny Franny

Damage my reputation? LMAO

[bitworm]

If they want to leave, you have to let them go. Wish them well, but don't beg for them to stay. Unless they are asking for a voluntary ban, the most they are doing is logging out and maybe deleting their bookmarks. If the person is a friend, you'll probably still be able to contact them through other means. Most are gonna come back eventually, because they are really not leaving, just taking a break. And from what I've seen here over the last few months(plus a year or so of lurking), almost all have been welcomed back.

I have seen a good number of long-standing members posting again that haven't posted much (if anything) since last year. Remember the past contributions, and keep in mind there are plenty of new contributions yet to be made.

[Icecold]

Really? I didn't know that. That is a real disappointment to hear. WhiteStar had his facts wrong. And he knew it. I had told him of the post report triangle, he used it, and he saw some (not all) of the actions I took as a consequence.

There appeared to be, from what I could see, members both pro-Horak and anti-Horak making excessive disturbance on Horak's threads (even this, his last thread.)

James Horak was encouraged to come here. We welcomed his presence. Enough disturbance was created in his threads, by members appearing to be on both sides, that he tired of it and chose to stop posting. We miss his presence and wish him well.

None of the above is new. It has happened before, I'm sure.

I continue to look for ways to improve this site's hospitable treatment of valued but controversial contributors.

That above contains a series of good points.
Creating content and presenting content to an audience are two distinct functions.

Dylan's got an old line in "Hard Rains a Gonna Fall" ... "I'll know my song well before I start singing"
As an aspiring writer there is a constant struggle between the art and the craft of delivering the narrative.
Respect for ones audience is paramount. In a forum setting being adept with hecklers is an art form worth learning.

I'll make a prediction Intraphase, Avalon is going to end up a very small community of bashers, with a lot of onlookers.

Very soon, no whistleblower will come near the place. It will be left to a select few and their friends in the MODS.

I can see it coming. Good luck with that.

I'm not going to be run off by an 'old boy's' network of stalkers and bashers. You'll have to think of another plan.



Damage my reputation? LMAO

LMAO. ****ing A

If the bullies want to play. They can play with me. ;)

[lightblue]

icecold
I'll make a prediction Interphase, Avalon is going to end up a very small community of bashers, with a lot of onlookers.

Very soon, no whistleblower will come near the place. It will be left to a select few and their friends in the MODS.

I can see it coming. Good luck with that.

I'm not going to be run off by an 'old boy's' network of stalkers and bashers. You'll have to think of another plan.

just by the way, who did you have in mind when you said: "you'll have to think of another plan"? thanks :thank_you2: l

.

[Icecold]

Whoever wants to sign the dotted line.

[aikya]

[QUOTE=Icecold;169181]

Deleted post.

[Icecold]

Edited after a very polite PM from a MOD.

Not to waste a post.......


A poem.



Security

Tomorrow will have an island. Before night
I always find it. Then on to the next island.
These places hidden in the day separate
and come forward if you beckon.
But you have to know they are there before they exist.

Some time there will be a tomorrow without any island.
So far, I haven't let that happen, but after
I'm gone others may become faithless and careless.
Before them will tumble the wide unbroken sea,
and without any hope they will stare at the horizon.

So to you, Friend, I confide my secret:
to be a discoverer you hold close whatever
you find, and after a while you decide
what it is. Then, secure in where you have been,
you turn to the open sea and let go.


William Stafford



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yR2vGJSX0xo

[lightblue]

.
icecoled
Whoever wants to sign the dotted line.

what content do you think stands above the dotted line? thanks :wink: l

.

.

[jorr lundstrom]

This is entertaining in a weird way. LOL

Sitting quietly doing nothing

comes spring and the grass grows by itself.

http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt81/sakasvattaja/Babajimturban.jpg

[Icecold]

Portrait of Jorr.....



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IL6PpneVNoo&feature=related

[Kindling]

Wow, unbelievable! We just watched a valuable member with very interesting information to share get beat up and chased out by bullies. How inspiring!

[jorr lundstrom]

Ice. This is true, so true. I was 14 for many years. Two years in Finland forced to grow to 16 years.

So actually I have a soul of a sixteen year old boy. LOL Love and carrots on the house

[Chicodoodoo]

who has been forcibly unsubscribed?

plumr2007 was the first one I saw ejected near the end of January 2011. I was so shocked at how it happened that I PMd Bill about it. To his credit, he provided me with a long explanation, but I still did not think the incident was handled properly. Given some of the things I've since witnessed in the forum, I still hold the same opinion.


for every banned individual there always is a reason - stated by either bill or mods' team

Not always. And any reason given may not be justified or verifiable. The ejected person's voice is effectively silenced, so there is no rebuttal, either.

plumr2007 wanted everyone's voice to be heard. He even remarked about people being ejected from Avalon for not following the group consensus. His posts are still present, if you want to check them.

I'd better be silent now, so I can continue to enjoy our discussions here.

[jorr lundstrom]

I just wanna say that I and Maria will hang around for a while. Our moods was on

the bottom yesterday. I think this announcement will make many happy and a few unhappy.

Love and carrots on the house


http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt81/sakasvattaja/pilgrim7.jpg

[modwiz]

It makes me happy that you two are hanging around a little longer. It will help keep the spirits up for many of us.

[Icecold]

It makes me happy that you two are hanging around a little longer. It will help keep the spirits up for many of us.

Ditto,

amazing how time changes things. :fish2:

[astrid]

:grouphug:

excellent news!!

[str8thinker]

(torzbc, post #116) What about an invite only group??

This would allow freedom of speech ( without the need to put down rat poison) and the ability for James, myself, OmetaOne and others of like-minds to be able to teach, learn from each other, discuss openly without distractions and grow within the security of a peaceful and clean environment.
Although we DON'T want it to be perceived as elitist, just a place to connect without the noise...


(Buchanan561, post #144)
It could be an invite room to start with. And when the thread is finished and all the information is there for others to learn from then the thread could be closed and become a read only thread. Then a side by side thread could be started for those who had important questions they would like to ask and or information they would like to add to the discussion could be posted.

Then others who had been a part of the invite only could frequent that thread and add to the discussion. This way there would always be teachers and learners, then the open thread where there will again be teachers and learners.

You don't have to ask us what we think, just go ahead and request the mods to set one up for you. They might even be able to transfer all of James's present threads to it. That way, King James can reign in peace over his devoted subjects and you will be spared the expense of paying to set one up elsewhere, thanks to the generosity of Bill Ryan. As Chris says, there are already a number of little groups here, each with a handful of members, some of which are private. I don't know whether a member has to earn the right to a closed room, but you could try.

As an added benefit, when someone in one of the main subforums requests clarification about one of James's theories, we can immediately refer that person to your group for illumination, rather than discuss it here.

Closed rooms though, being hidden away and overlooked by visitors, tend to become stuffy and somnolent, whereas larger halls seem better for encouraging lively debate and furthering intellectual progress. I wish you well.

[InCiDeR]

I just wanna say that I and Maria will hang around for a while. Our moods was on

the bottom yesterday. I think this announcement will make many happy and a few unhappy.

Love and carrots on the house


http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt81/sakasvattaja/pilgrim7.jpg

:hail:

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRXaB0PSFI-ovGufCkySemjflHJwKOMVFFjk0gFnhzxKXqu1hVwGA

[chelmostef]

chelmostef:
......I really like this idea, perhaps a room in Avalon were everyone is welcome but it is specially created for a person of special status due to their work outside of Avalon..........

what?:blink: so Avalon to become a media outlet for a person with a "special status"? a place where a so called discussion would be encouraged only if it served as a vehicle for the "special person's " argument/doctrine and where the uncompliant participants in the discussion would be labeled bothersome, unrully? just who would be policing that? a person with a "special status"? :blink:

sounds like a clean cut deffinition of a CULT to me... :stop:

please, what is it you understand by a "special satus"?

p.s. as it is, it is pefectly possible to create a sub-forum (with mods' permission) with members who wish to be there...

by the way, this has always been an open forum....:yu:

Person of special status was the best label I could think of, whistle blowers is what I would have said but in this case James is not one... What is a better word that conveys the meaning - someone who has done a lot of work in the alternative community with lots of interesting information or is also a whistle blower? A word to describe that??

Ok I will use celebrity as the word of choice in my next sentences although I am loath to do so but for the want of a better word I will do so...

Its not about creating a cult one bit... Its about another celebrity leaving, one were they were chased them out the door and people are half way though a conversation with them... (and some wonder what the fuss is about)

What I am trying to achieve as just a small about of protection for the celebrities coming to Avalon... We have proved time and time again we chase them out the door... IMO that is not productive and is hurting Avalon...



(torzbc, post #116) What about an invite only group??

This would allow freedom of speech ( without the need to put down rat poison) and the ability for James, myself, OmetaOne and others of like-minds to be able to teach, learn from each other, discuss openly without distractions and grow within the security of a peaceful and clean environment.
Although we DON'T want it to be perceived as elitist, just a place to connect without the noise...


(Buchanan561, post #144)
It could be an invite room to start with. And when the thread is finished and all the information is there for others to learn from then the thread could be closed and become a read only thread. Then a side by side thread could be started for those who had important questions they would like to ask and or information they would like to add to the discussion could be posted.

Then others who had been a part of the invite only could frequent that thread and add to the discussion. This way there would always be teachers and learners, then the open thread where there will again be teachers and learners.

You don't have to ask us what we think, just go ahead and request the mods to set one up for you. They might even be able to transfer all of James's present threads to it. That way, King James can reign in peace over his devoted subjects and you will be spared the expense of paying to set one up elsewhere, thanks to the generosity of Bill Ryan. As Chris says, there are already a number of little groups here, each with a handful of members, some of which are private. I don't know whether a member has to earn the right to a closed room, but you could try.

As an added benefit, when someone in one of the main subforums requests clarification about one of James's theories, we can immediately refer that person to your group for illumination, rather than discuss it here.

Closed rooms though, being hidden away and overlooked by visitors, tend to become stuffy and somnolent, whereas larger halls seem better for encouraging lively debate and furthering intellectual progress. I wish you well.


Every time a celebrity comes to Avalon a new group is formed they get together dust of the pitch forks and go about the business of chasing, who they deem as being a travesty to the course, are chased of Avalon... With a lot shouting and of waving of the pitch forks.

Let me put it this way if Micheal Jackson came here there would be a small group who do not like him for one reason or another... If Eminem came he there would be a different group who did not like him... What I am saying is the majority are losing because of the small groups with the pitch forks...

It nothing about cults or anything like that just a small amount of protection for people....

Chris has said it may be possible to set a room up or group... Well why is it up to the people to make their own beds? When a guest comes to my house I have a room bed towels show them round... Its common courtesy...

How many more celebrities will we chase away before we learn? Or could we tweak a few things to get it right?

[InCiDeR]

(...) How many more celebrities will we chase away before we learn? Or could we tweak a few things to get it right?

chelmostef, I felt that the "thank you" button wasn't enough. I kept your final question, because I think that this is something we all, as Avalonians, must ask ourselves. Thank you. / InCiDeR

[modwiz]

Is it just me or was the departure of James Horak treated as a relative non event by the mods/admin/BR.

The strange statement put out by a mod that the reason for James' departure was because of disturbances caused by pro and anti James factions. Not true as per Torzbc and other awake people as myself and Icecold.

James Horak was allowed to just leave. Bye James, sorry 'bout that.

Somehow what he had to say was either deemed not important or it was just the opposite.

Cui bono?

[Icecold]

Yes the mod's statement makes it appear that defending a guest is the same as attacking a guest. LMAO

Maybe next time the polite people should not post and let the bashers tear the guest apart.

How does that work for you?

[chelmostef]

(...) How many more celebrities will we chase away before we learn? Or could we tweak a few things to get it right?

chelmostef, I felt that the "thank you" button wasn't enough. I kept your final question, because I think that this is something we all, as Avalonians, must ask ourselves. Thank you. / InCiDeR

Thank you, InCiDeR... I would also like to emphasize the point about different celebrities coming here... There will always be a group that will not like them or their work or perhaps what they stand for, inconsistencies, what ever reasons. Every celebrity will have a new group formed against them as each celebrity stands from a unique perspective. As we have seen it not always the same people who chase celebrities away

I think we should have some sort of protection in place to stop the celebrities being driven away time and time again. I think it undoes the work of bringing celebrities here in the first place, and is of great detriment to the group as a whole.

[Icecold]

(...) How many more celebrities will we chase away before we learn? Or could we tweak a few things to get it right?

chelmostef, I felt that the "thank you" button wasn't enough. I kept your final question, because I think that this is something we all, as Avalonians, must ask ourselves. Thank you. / InCiDeR

Thank you, InCiDeR... I would also like to emphasize the point about different celebrities coming here... There will always be a group that will not like them or their work or perhaps what they stand for, inconsistencies, what ever reasons. Every celebrity will have a new group formed against them as each celebrity stands from a unique perspective. As we have seen it not always the same people who chase celebrities away

I think we should have some sort of protection in place to stop the celebrities being driven away time and time again. I think it undoes the work of bringing celebrities here in the first place, and is of great detriment to the group as a whole.

There needs to be a distinction between a guest who is peacefully engaged in a constructive dialogue and guests who are not.

For example Enlightened was overtly threatening. This was proved to be the case. I.E. "You will all burn in hell" ...or words to that effect. Not constructive...dangerous.

Then there was Heather, a guest who from the outset was a liar. Finally declaring that she would send 12 agents into our forum to 'educate us' whether we chose it or not.

Some members could not tell the difference between a threat and a constructive learning experience.

This is a problem for some. Whatever the case, there are two distinctly different types of guests.

[lightblue]

.
chelmostef: Person of special status was the best label I could think of, whistle blowers is what I would have said but in this case James is not one... What is a better word that conveys the meaning - someone who has done a lot of work in the alternative community with lots of interesting information or is also a whistle blower? A word to describe that??

Sounds to me you are describing bill..

Ok I will use celebrity as the word of choice in my next sentences although I am loath to do so but for the want of a better word I will do so...

Its not about creating a cult one bit... Its about another celebrity leaving, one were they were chased them out the door and people are half way though a conversation with them... (and some wonder what the fuss is about)

please answer – who chased whom away do you think?

What I am trying to achieve as just a small about of protection for the celebrities coming to Avalon... We have proved time and time again we chase them out the door... IMO that is not productive and is hurting Avalon..

again – who chased whom away? also :what did you mean by “small about protection for the celebrities coming to avalon” – sounds to me you have a question for the admin/mods, but you are putting it on public pages, so please explain..

by the way i think avalon is about discernment and not about “celebrities” veneration - that's if I understood well your “celebrity protection” notion..

Every time a celebrity comes to Avalon a new group is formed they get together dust of the pitch forks and go about the business of chasing, who they deem as being a travesty to the course, are chased of Avalon... With a lot shouting and of waving of the pitch forks.

frankly i. do not understand what “every time” here is..it’s like you are talking about this and other times….care to explain what are the other times? care to explain what is “this time” please?

.. Let me put it this way if Micheal Jackson came here there would be a small group who do not like him for one reason or another... If Eminem came he there would be a different group who did not like him... What I am saying is the majority are losing because of the small groups with the pitch forks...

i think your choice of comparisons is unfortunate...

It nothing about cults or anything like that just a small amount of protection for people....

if it is not about cult personalities, then please define : “a small amount of protection”.
i believe that EVERYBODY deserves the same amount of “ small protection”, not just “celebrities”…

Chris has said it may be possible to set a room up or group... Well why is it up to the people to make their own beds? When a guest comes to my house I have a room bed towels show them round... Its common courtesy...

really, i find this to be another unfortunate comparison : - i hope you didn’t mean to drew a parallel with a guest house…if so, .everyone is a guest here just like everyone should feel at home here….this is a discussion forum, courtesy of bill…I hope you are not trying to re-define bill’s rules of engagement..

crhis’s is a great idea….i myself have mentioned it too in response to buchanan5216 earlier on (please scroll up)…initiative taking, forming into smaller groups with specific interest is very much part of avalon’s mission statement.

How many more celebrities will we chase away before we learn? Or could we tweak a few things to get it right?

i think you have a question for bill/ mod team here…

best wishes ..:yu: l

.

[greybeard]

Not wishing to get involved but several groups have evolved here on all kinds of subjects.
It was the choice of the group to have private discussions amongst interested people.
It kept debate on track totaly in the spirit of the thread.
Its was entirley by the choice of the group.
It was not a place people were forced into.
Threads on walkins, and people like myself who never felt they belonged on this earth could comunicate with out being laughed at.
Not elitist not divisive all very positive.
If you wanted to join you PMd the group starter and were admitted or not as the case might be.
.It always originated in the main part and if there was enough interest a group was formed.
There is a lot here to be discovered almost every situation envisage by Bill and and original mods and catered for
Regards Chris

[chelmostef]

Some members could not tell the difference between a threat and a constructive learning experience.

This is a problem for some. Whatever the case, there are two distinctly different types of guests.

In what you have written lays the problem.

IMO the system in place is ok just needs tweaking a bit.

The system as it stands is good for protecting us, as we have seen there is no one to be protected from now, as they all leave, ultimate protection. (That's is if we even need protecting and the protection is based on some else's views of what is worthy to be protected against, I digress)

The system we use offers little or no protections for guests IMO its very one sided.

[lightblue]

chelmostef
In what you have written lays the problem.

IMO the system in place is ok just needs tweaking a bit.

The system as it stands is good for protecting us, as we have seen there is no one to be protected from now, as they all leave, ultimate protection. (That's is if we even need protecting and the protection is based on some else's views of what is worthy to be protected against, I digress)

The system we use offers little or no protections for guests IMO its very one sided.

but, everyone is a member here - entitled to post, question, take part in various discussions...guests are not even able to post , i don't think.. best wishes :wink: l

.

[chelmostef]

please answer – who chased whom away do you think?
i think you have a question for bill/ mod team here…

Please see my post here-


A list of people who we, Avalonians have chased away.

James Horack
Atticus/Charles(We without doubt, shouted, belittled, and attacked him, he may still have been posting if we are as kind as we post about being)
Barry King
Heather Anderson
Plus many many more as history does prove

This is not a lesson any more about forum decorum. We have lost too many, we are losing because of how we act and because little or no protection in place as I have said before here on the 16th of feb-

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?14290-Time-to-move-on.&p=141902#post141902

This is not one individual person, its a unaddressed problem. One we could easily change if we showed emapthy.

You cannot deny all the Guests of Notoriety leave Avalon, I'm questioning why they leave? In the hope of finding an answer and possible solution so they don't leave anymore.

[lightblue]

chelmstef:
You cannot deny all the Guests of Notoriety leave Avalon, I'm questioning why they leave? In the hope of finding an answer and possible solution so they don't leave anymore.

though i appreciate your opinion, i would like to remind you that it may not be everybody's..i still think it would be best to take this issue up with bill/mods..to perpetuate this theme on our public forum boils down to mere tittle-tattle hearsay...it is my understanding that:

-james horak is still down as a member.

- atticus is still down as a member

- heather anderson i don't know about, quiet.. from what i understood, "she" was a group and not a member (as such in breach of avalon's rules) - someone here may know better.

- barry king was banned for a period then chose not to return - he gave his reasons..i am sad it came to that..other misfortunate things happened to him privately subsequent to which he requested his entire archive to be deleted from avalon - his reasons for that remain private..i am guessing there is nothing for him to carry on building upon (since that archive was deleted by his request), and he deemed it best to not return..again, this is my interpretation of barry's leaving..

it comes down to ONE person leaving here (barry king) for not so ununderstandable reasons..it also comes down to your being sorry as to why some individuals don't log in as often - that you'll need to ask them about..seems to me a logical answer..

best wishes :wink: l

.

[jorr lundstrom]

Is it just me or was the departure of James Horak treated as a relative non event by the mods/admin/BR.

The strange statement put out by a mod that the reason for James' departure was because of disturbances caused by pro and anti James factions. Not true as per Torzbc and other awake people as myself and Icecold.

James Horak was allowed to just leave. Bye James, sorry 'bout that.

Somehow what he had to say was either deemed not important or it was just the opposite.

Cui bono?


I defended James. Per definition I belonged to the disturbances. So the slaugtering of a

guest by some houligans must not be disturbed. From this I can understand why nothing

happened when two guys had a colubune going in another thread and two mods just

watched. Then I concluded that wot took place was in line with the mods preferance.

And I suppose the valcyrians were pleased. Love and carrots on me

[ulli]

Is it just me or was the departure of James Horak treated as a relative non event by the mods/admin/BR.

The strange statement put out by a mod that the reason for James' departure was because of disturbances caused by pro and anti James factions. Not true as per Torzbc and other awake people as myself and Icecold.

James Horak was allowed to just leave. Bye James, sorry 'bout that.

Somehow what he had to say was either deemed not important or it was just the opposite.

Cui bono?


I defended James. Per definition I belonged to the disturbances. So the slaugtering of a

guest by some houligans must not be disturbed. From this I can understand why nothing

happened when two guys had a colubune going in another thread and two mods just

watched. Then I concluded that wot took place was in line with the mods preferance.

And I suppose the valcyrians were pleased. Love and carrots on me


You know, Jorr, I'm sure it will be sorted out later on. No one has all the answers,
and James came at a very turbulant time.
His work is great, no doubt about it, and will expose much of what is going on with NASA.
I really marvelled at some of the things I found on his site.
I just wish he hadn't been quite as rigid as he was about the way he handled the hecklers.
I asked him a question about the hexagon on the north pole of Saturn and he never replied.
Now I understand why-- he was just overloaded with questions.

He might even have thought I wasn't sincere, because he had looked at my other input,
found it too flippant, and dismissed me right away as a heckler.
I don't mean to disrupt...I like to make people think. I'm a deep thinker myself.

But we know his work can be studied at a distance...quietly on the web,
and there one can reply via e-mail, and I think that is more his style anyway, as it is more orderly.
The man is into order, I believe.

Nothing wrong with order.

[ulli]

yesterday I was introducing PA to one of the really special cyber friends I have out there
and she told me she once had been a moderator in the Camelot days but left...
wow, surprise, surprise...so she knew Kerry and Bill.

her life has changed a lot since then...whether we stay here, or move on,
life will go on, and possibly even get better, either way.

It depends on the attitude we bring to life and it's lessons.

[Peacelovinman]

Rocky_Shorz

As per your recommendation post #131, I read James Horuk's bio. Plus I also read some other posters' reminders that you have stated this before and were refuted. Please provide a specific link to support your accusations; otherwise, I will assume you are just trying to damage Horuk's reputation for unknown reasons.

It seems odd that you would want to damage your own reputation when you have 474 thanks on this forum.

Thank you,

Granny Franny

Damage my reputation? LMAO

You didn't answer the question. Would you like to do so?

[Jayke]

You know, Jorr, I'm sure it will be sorted out later on. No one has all the answers,
and James came at a very turbulant time.
His work is great, no doubt about it, and will expose much of what is going on with NASA.
I really marvelled at some of the things I found on his site.
I just wish he hadn't been quite as rigid as he was about the way he handled the hecklers.
I asked him a question about the hexagon on the north pole of Saturn and he never replied.
Now I understand why-- he was just overloaded with questions.

He might even have thought I wasn't sincere, because he had looked at my other input,
found it too flippant, and dismissed me right away as a heckler.
I don't mean to disrupt...I like to make people think. I'm a deep thinker myself.

But we know his work can be studied at a distance...quietly on the web,
and there one can reply via e-mail, and I think that is more his style anyway, as it is more orderly.
The man is into order, I believe.

Nothing wrong with order.

agreed, i got the same feeling about him, probably wasn't anticipating the kind of chaos you get in a forum setting.
His work does seem quite intriguing from what i've read and I am eager to learn more.

Maybe 'celebrities' joining the forum in the future could be advised by the mod team to keep their celebrity status to themselves, that way any new insights they bring into the forum will be judged purely on the value of the information. The character of the poster and the ability to earn the trust of their peers is what allows people to be treated with the utmost respect in a forum like this.
Celebrities get bashed because people want to know if they've got enough integrity to endure a good bashing, 'the nail that stands out gets hammered down' as they say in Japan.
It's only human nature to test people who are in a position of 'status' to ensure that they've got enough leadership skills to actually be able to lead.

To circumvent any future bashings, celebrities should just choose a random username like everyone else and keep their identity on the down low, introducing their information in a humble way like posting one of their videos and guiding people through a discussion of it would prevent the deluge of questions that celebrities are constantly bogged down with and help them to expand minds in a positive way IMO

[ulli]

You know, Jorr, I'm sure it will be sorted out later on. No one has all the answers,
and James came at a very turbulant time.
His work is great, no doubt about it, and will expose much of what is going on with NASA.
I really marvelled at some of the things I found on his site.
I just wish he hadn't been quite as rigid as he was about the way he handled the hecklers.
I asked him a question about the hexagon on the north pole of Saturn and he never replied.
Now I understand why-- he was just overloaded with questions.

He might even have thought I wasn't sincere, because he had looked at my other input,
found it too flippant, and dismissed me right away as a heckler.
I don't mean to disrupt...I like to make people think. I'm a deep thinker myself.

But we know his work can be studied at a distance...quietly on the web,
and there one can reply via e-mail, and I think that is more his style anyway, as it is more orderly.
The man is into order, I believe.

Nothing wrong with order.

agreed, i got the same feeling about him, probably wasn't anticipating the kind of chaos you get in a forum setting.
His work does seem quite intriguing from what i've read and I am eager to learn more.

Maybe 'celebrities' joining the forum in the future could be advised by the mod team to keep their celebrity status to themselves, that way any new insights they bring into the forum will be judged purely on the value of the information. The character of the poster and the ability to earn the trust of their peers is what allows people to be treated with the utmost respect in a forum like this.
Celebrities get bashed because people want to know if they've got enough integrity to endure a good bashing, 'the nail that stands out gets hammered down' as they say in Japan.
It's only human nature to test people who are in a position of 'status' to ensure that they've got enough leadership skills to actually be able to lead.

To circumvent any future bashings, celebrities should just choose a random username like everyone else and keep their identity on the down low, introducing their information in a humble way like posting one of their videos and guiding people through a discussion of it would prevent the deluge of questions that celebrities are constantly bogged down with and help them to expand minds in a positive way IMO

I wouldn't say that all celebrities need to do that, just those who aren't ready to face the music/hecklers. But how would they know in advance?

[misty_moon5]

To much Drama in this room .. to many Ego's .. this room is going down a different path .... been there done that .. and will not be part of contributing or participating in all this Drama .... I am out ...

[Jayke]

I wouldn't say that all celebrities need to do that, just those who aren't ready to face the music/hecklers. But how would they know in advance?

warning: excessive noise on entry, viewer discretion may be needed, consider going in stealth

As long as they know what they're letting themselves in for I doubt they'd be in such a rush to leave if things didn't go the way they anticipated.

[greybeard]

Welcome back James Horak
I see you are viewing this thread.
You arrived at a time when people were hurting and distressed
Perhaps you could speak to people who want to hear now
Regards Chris

[Rocky_Shorz]

Wow, unbelievable! We just watched a valuable member with very interesting information to share get beat up and chased out by bullies. How inspiring!

they were here to promote their website and since his purpose was to come shred Atticus, what comes around goes around, and he wasn't chased away by anything but truth...

[ulli]

I wouldn't say that all celebrities need to do that, just those who aren't ready to face the music/hecklers. But how would they know in advance?

warning: excessive noise on entry, viewer discretion may be needed, consider going in stealth

As long as they know what they're letting themselves in for I doubt they'd be in such a rush to leave if things didn't go the way they anticipated.


All my life I have plunged where I should have first just dipped my toe.
I nearly drowned a few times, even.

But then there is hindsight, and some lessons are best learnt from that position.
It depends how each one is used to operating.

I have never been one to expect guarantees. Or have I?
I need to think about that one... expectation is a biggie...
will get back later.

[Rocky_Shorz]

Chris has known me long enough to understand what I am doing...

come on James, you show up with an AI computer of the PTB and watched me take it over for my purpose, something humans aren't able to do...

if your gripe is truly with TPB, don't you see the friend you have met?

you are a veteran and I give you total respect for who you are, and when I ask for the truth it isn't that difficult, look at my question...

you could tell us the story of how you helped find a peaceful solution to the wild Texans...

and then...

[Agape]

I'm wondering folks. How many of your subsconscious messages and thoughts here are discretely addressed to Bill ?

Do you think one can really sort it out all by himself. Too many agendas, too many different individuals with long life stories, even if you have great minds how much of it you can practically take in one long life time.

The time is for you here to follow, follow by example and grow up, to your own unique inner pattern. Several were dismissed of here, few passed with honors .

Know your own worth .


:pray:

[Janos]

It's only human nature to test people who are in a position of 'status' to ensure that they've got enough leadership skills to actually be able to lead.

Yes it is, and he or she who steps into a room full of people who have very much had their fill of 'BS' will have to be extra careful in the way that the information is conveyed. Oft times it's not the information, but the delivery of said information, that gets the harsh reception.


To circumvent any future bashings, celebrities should just choose a random username like everyone else and keep their identity on the down low, introducing their information in a humble way like posting one of their videos and guiding people through a discussion of it would prevent the deluge of questions that celebrities are constantly bogged down with and help them to expand minds in a positive way IMO

I love this idea.

The information will be judged on it's own merits, and without any positive or negative implications attached to it from the very beginning. If it is truth, it will be vetted as such.

I'd not heard the name "James Horak" before I saw him arrive on Avalon, so I don't have any prejudgments about his material one way or another. But many have, and have put themselves in the pro/anti camps.

Just something to consider for future 'high' profile guests, that they may wish to be a bit more discreet, and in so doing, give their material a much better chance of being absorbed by those who are interested.

[RAKMEiSTER]

I'm wondering folks. How many of your subsconscious messages and thoughts here are discretely addressed to Bill ?


Do you think one can really sort it out all by himself. Too many agendas, too many different individuals with long life stories, even if you have great minds how much of it you can practically take in one long life time.

The time is for you here to follow, follow by example and grow up, to your own unique inner pattern. Several were dismissed of here, few passed with honors .

Know your own worth .


:pray:

i hear ya

+1

[DevilPigeon]

To much Drama in this room .. to many Ego's .. this room is going down a different path .... been there done that .. and will not be part of contributing or participating in all this Drama .... I am out ...

So your one single post on this thread is saying that you're not participating in this thread....?

:drum:

[ulli]

Is it just me or was the departure of James Horak treated as a relative non event by the mods/admin/BR.

The strange statement put out by a mod that the reason for James' departure was because of disturbances caused by pro and anti James factions. Not true as per Torzbc and other awake people as myself and Icecold.

James Horak was allowed to just leave. Bye James, sorry 'bout that.

Somehow what he had to say was either deemed not important or it was just the opposite.

Cui bono?

"Treated as a non-event" implies conscious action on someone's behalf.
Or to put it even more bluntly: malicious intent.
Where is the evidence?

Was I really the only one who could see that the timing of James arrival factored into this?

There were also early warning signs if I remember, rightly.
Some misunderstanding about James registration?

James public announcement that he wasn't welcome at Avalon?

Bill having to do damage control before he even had recuperated from traveling and the fallout of losing Richard and co?

Perhaps all parties here needed a lesson, present company included.

[Intraphase]

Intraphase, he didn't ignore your examples, he was kept busy by the shills with distracting and libellous questions, he had so little time to answer anything fully, they didn't want him here... I wonder if other "Cottage Industry" NAMES would have been treated with such hate and distrust.... I somehow doubt it... as you yourself said "A lot of people in the alternative media have been so busy chasing dead ends they can't see the forest through the trees."

I regret using the word ignore.
James has identified an area of interest that I shall keep in the front of my mind.
Forums and newsgroups are are the equivalent of a singer or comedian practicing their chops in a hostile environment.
From listening to James and his life story I know he is aware of a certain underlying story line which many people here share.
There are those who are "Seers" and those who aren't. A high ratio of people here are seers maybe 70% The other 30% are seers trying to keep it under control or get it to shut it self back off. I think that is probably the main reason people are drawn here. James knows a lot of angles on "The Game" that is played in sandbox Earth. To me I focus on his pushing the EMV to the forefront of my radar screen. The soap opera's of this world are truly boring. Plus any time some big player like JFK or others of that level get bounced from the game people turn it into seven different colorod cults of "What Might Have Been."

Maybe once Khadafi head is rolling in the street we'll all feel better as another storm in this silly ant farm passes.
Even the critics here are sincere and good practice for James. Plus I found today there is a Astronomy & Cosmology section where the rules could be used to his advantage on the EMV material. In terms of this world and "The Game" I disagree with James on many points, but so what I want his take on EMV so I bite my salty little snake tongue and mind my own P&Q's.

Because I view the world through "Information Theories" James assertion the EMV were occupied and the occupants posessed information patterns complex enough to be characterized by the label soul was an impressive assertion. One that I am not willing to dismiss lightly without argument and counter argument.

Also he seems to be one of the few researchers who has a grip and more than a passing knowledge of retrocausality.

So once again sorry about using the word "ignored". Bit of petulance.
Hoping Jim stays a member.
Sincerely, Art.

[Sierra]

Ignorant newbie posting here lol! Skip this posting dear hearts if you don't wish to hear my .02 on the newbie/moderator issue.

What is with blaming the newbies for the strife? March 2010 ... is that a newbie join date? April 2010 ... is that a newbie join date? And yet users with those join dates are some of the rudest posters here! Are newbies the issue here? Maybe the issue is the lack of moderation from posters and moderators.

If the moderators are currently unable to control the spam/trolls (14 mods for 2,000 someone said?), then how about adding another button to the screen that allows the CREATOR of the thread to put those that bash out of the room?

Don't know how it would work out in practice, but the theory of it seems fair to me. What irritates me about the current situation is multiple hostile postings ad nauseam and not ONE single warning or "cool it" from a mod.

Why? You can't say you are supporting the "... spectrum of debate ..." when the "debate" is forcing people to close their threads. So not fair. It is not debate, it is deliberately destructive behavior.

Avalon rule of SELF-PROMOTION sez:
1. Everyone joined this forum to discuss our material, not to hear others showcase theirs. Members who insist on promoting/ showcasing themselves, <snip> will be unsubscribed.

Unsubscribed? Really? Perhaps a time out for a few days ... just a time out would be useful. Shattered nerves you know (oh those fragile ignorant newbies who just can't learn a thing!)... :drama:

:behindsofa: move over... I need cover!

[Bill Ryan]

--------

Dear Friends,

I'm posting this here as a definitive statement. I'll close the thread later once every one interested has had the opportunity to read this.

James explained perfectly clearly what had happened here:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?14605-Can-We-TRUST-CHARLES-Our-REAL-HISTORY-and-the-E.T.-INVASION-*LIE*&p=165764&viewfull=1#post165764

... but this seems to have been missed by some posters on this thread (Rocky_Shorz and bashi, and maybe others).

James wrote:




Let me refer to one thing on the link that bitworm so graciously provides. You will notice that both myself and Gordon Tibbles are editors of Anomalog. Tibbles was my student at the time in Unified Consciousness. [mod-edit: Some text deleted. This site does not take a position regarding what might have transpired between Mr's Horak, Tibbles and Bergrun. -- Paul] I have not and would never say one deprecating word about this truly fine scientist [Dr. Bergrun] and brave pioneer in his field. On his website I compare him to both Copernicus and Galileo with good reasons. That will remain my belief throughout all my longevity.
JCH


It was completely obvious that no-one would doctor their own bio as a self-smear. I could see immediately what had happened. Everyone here should have.

James is understandably outraged that so many people kept on quoting the deliberately-corrupted bio (which of course had been copied over and again all over the internet).

As someone who has been smeared several times myself (including recently!), James has my full sympathy. As many of you know, I have been traveling and working for the last 2-3 weeks, and have not been up to speed with many posts, threads and developments. James has been e-mailing me imploring me to understand what had happened.

As a final statement from myself:

James Horak in no way discredited or undermined Dr Norman Bergrun, and never would.

I welcome all his contributions to the forum. I do understand why he chose to leave.

I ask everyone to treat our guests rather better than they have done (in some cases, this is a mild understatement). This is of the utmost importance for the integrity of Avalon and I ask you all to be careful and responsible with your assumptions. Many thanks.

[holcaul]

Thank you Bill! Hang in there!!

[Lord Sidious]

You know Bill, I was raised to believe that if you are a guest and you attack another guest, you are in fact attacking your host.
Now that we have a larger team of mods and admins, I look forward to the nuggetry that has happened in the past being nipped in the bud.
With or without the involvement of carrots.

[Agape]

Houston, we have a situation here :

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?16048-THAT-WAS-MASSIVE-8.9-in-Japan-(Tsunami)&p=172839#post172839

I really love all those doctors with big names who are forever unable to lower their heads and say sorry when it's their time,
calling themselves initiates, when this world is dying and crying for help,

spending lives in their safe houses and surrounded by securities ,
complaining of life and arguing on petty things

while it would take about the same amount of time to put heads together instead

and find solutions.


You can complain to me if you wish..


Agape :angel:

[grapevine]

It's a shame that we have lost such a high calibre forum member. Let's learn our lesson and in future give everyone a second chance .... We are all from the same source and should be beyond bullying each other on this wonderful forum ........ :)

[torzbc]

--------

Dear Friends,

I'm posting this here as a definitive statement. I'll close the thread later once every one interested has had the opportunity to read this.

James explained perfectly clearly what had happened here:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?14605-Can-We-TRUST-CHARLES-Our-REAL-HISTORY-and-the-E.T.-INVASION-*LIE*&p=165764&viewfull=1#post165764

... but this seems to have been missed by some posters on this thread (Rocky_Shorz and bashi, and maybe others).

James wrote:




Let me refer to one thing on the link that bitworm so graciously provides. You will notice that both myself and Gordon Tibbles are editors of Anomalog. Tibbles was my student at the time in Unified Consciousness. [mod-edit: Some text deleted. This site does not take a position regarding what might have transpired between Mr's Horak, Tibbles and Bergrun. -- Paul] I have not and would never say one deprecating word about this truly fine scientist [Dr. Bergrun] and brave pioneer in his field. On his website I compare him to both Copernicus and Galileo with good reasons. That will remain my belief throughout all my longevity.
JCH


It was completely obvious that no-one would doctor their own bio as a self-smear. I could see immediately what had happened. Everyone here should have.

James is understandably outraged that so many people kept on quoting the deliberately-corrupted bio (which of course had been copied over and again all over the internet).

As someone who has been smeared several times myself (including recently!), James has my full sympathy. As many of you know, I have been traveling and working for the last 2-3 weeks, and have not been up to speed with many posts, threads and developments. James has been e-mailing me imploring me to understand what had happened.

As a final statement from myself:

James Horak in no way discredited or undermined Dr Norman Bergrun, and never would.

I welcome all his contributions to the forum. I do understand why he chose to leave.

I ask everyone to treat our guests rather better than they have done (in some cases, this is a mild understatement). This is of the utmost importance for the integrity of Avalon and I ask you all to be careful and responsible with your assumptions. Many thanks.

Thank-you Bill for clearing up and verifying this gross misrepresentation and obvious slanderous actions by some of the members of this forum...... who many are now aware of..... and can you tell us what will be the repercussions for the people who were involved in this serious issue? that in itself was almost on the point of causing even more serious repercussions for Avalon..... many recently seem to have been banned for much less...........
I and I'm sure many others are very appreciative of your publicly clearing this up at last.
My deepest regards...
Torz BC

[bashi]

Somebody posts his own Bio and complains when it is quoted.
Then he claims it has been altererd without his knowledge, passing the buck back to the quoter.

It has been posted all over the net for years. See here, also on foren where his followers posted, like torz on Open Minds.

Now the Original Bio has been deleted.

How can you NOT question that man?

http://www.disclose.tv/forum/breaking-now-nasa-coments-about-alien-fleets-on-the-sun-t33474-10.html

http://www.om-page.de/james_horak.html

http://lucianarchy.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=veritasshow&action=display&thread=7402&page=2

[Bill Ryan]

Somebody posts his own Bio and complains when it is quoted.
Then he claims it has been altererd without his knowledge, passing the buck back to the quoter.

It has been posted all over the net for years. See here, also on foren where his followers posted, like torz on Open Minds.

Now the Original Bio has been deleted.

How can you NOT question that man?

http://www.disclose.tv/forum/breaking-now-nasa-coments-about-alien-fleets-on-the-sun-t33474-10.html

http://www.om-page.de/james_horak.html

http://lucianarchy.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=veritasshow&action=display&thread=7402&page=2



(Mod Hat on)

Bashi, you are totally out of order with this unpleasant post that only betrays your lack of understanding.

The way you have presented yourself on the forum has changed in the last couple of months. Quite a lot of your posts are now negative in tone, and contribute little except conflict. You're skating on extremely thin ice.

[bashi]

I do not intend to be negative. But what will you do if you are called names...

My question: How do you know that Mr. Horak has not worked against Dr. Bergrun?

[Bill Ryan]

(Mod Hat on)

Bashi, you are totally out of order with this unpleasant post that only betrays your lack of understanding.

The way you have presented yourself on the forum has changed in the last couple of months. Quite a lot of your posts are now negative in tone, and contribute little except conflict. You're skating on extremely thin ice.

I do not intend to be negative. But what will you do if you are called names...

My question: How do you know that Mr. Horak has not worked against Dr. Bergrun?


Bashi, your negativity and [current] unintelligence are showing clearly.

How do you know that he has?

Anyone can accuse anyone of anything. That doesn't mean it's the ethical thing to do. You may be wrong, and may be just perpetrating a smear to the delight of others.

How would you like that if you were in the other person's position? (I can sympathize. Maybe you cannot.)

[DevilPigeon]

Somebody posts his own Bio and complains when it is quoted.
Then he claims it has been altererd without his knowledge, passing the buck back to the quoter.

It has been posted all over the net for years. See here, also on foren where his followers posted, like torz on Open Minds.

Now the Original Bio has been deleted.

How can you NOT question that man?

http://www.disclose.tv/forum/breaking-now-nasa-coments-about-alien-fleets-on-the-sun-t33474-10.html
Couldn't find any bio link on here, appears to be just a forum
http://www.om-page.de/james_horak.html
There is a bio, however, if you read the 'Synopsis' section above it you'll see that it's the author of the page that has written the 'bio' (as he/she states '...As I said I will start with the biography of James Horak:')
http://lucianarchy.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=veritasshow&action=display&thread=7402&page=2
Copy/paste from above site, by the look of things...



My comments in red above... Just an observation.

[torzbc]

Somebody posts his own Bio and complains when it is quoted.
Then he claims it has been altererd without his knowledge, passing the buck back to the quoter.

It has been posted all over the net for years. See here, also on foren where his followers posted, like torz on Open Minds.

Now the Original Bio has been deleted.

How can you NOT question that man?

http://www.disclose.tv/forum/breaking-now-nasa-coments-about-alien-fleets-on-the-sun-t33474-10.html

http://www.om-page.de/james_horak.html

http://lucianarchy.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=veritasshow&action=display&thread=7402&page=2



(Mod Hat on)

Bashi, you are totally out of order with this unpleasant post that only betrays your lack of understanding.

The way you have presented yourself on the forum has changed in the last couple of months. Quite a lot of your posts are now negative in tone, and contribute little except conflict. You're skating on extremely thin ice.
Bill... I am with you on this one as are TOO many members of this forum...
I am at a loss to understand where this hatred comes from, so many people have given thanks to James for his contributing work to the truth movement... yet it seems bashi is coming from a different mind set...only I am unable to see its posts as I have them on ignore so thanks for the quote...
I really have no idea what this person is going on about...
I thought Avalon was a place to come an contribute and grow...
People can't and won't do that here is they are constantly harassed by what seems just a few of the members..

[Bill Ryan]

I thought Avalon was a place to come an contribute and grow...
People can't and won't do that here is they are constantly harassed by what seems just a few of the members..

Exactly. I (and the other mods) will do whatever it takes to make this a safe and respected place to express opinions and offer their perspectives and information. That does not mean it's okay to smear, disrespect, or criticize others without extremely good grounds.

[Dennis Jonathan]

Instead of pointing fingers, seeking retribution, and making generalizations about the treatment of (witnesses, investigators, mods, new comers, truthseekers, agent provacateurs, etc.), can we just take a moment to see the big picture?

I for one have just started reading Mr. Horaks work, and mostly because of this thread. I did not see your original threads, took no part in undermining or encouraging them, yet have already been deemed unworthy to converse with due to poor timing.

Do we choose to promote co-creation, or do we just wear tee-shirts that say as much?

Are we trying to promote a collective consciousness shift, or is that just what sells tickets to Growth-a-palooza?

Enough of this. We are better than this. We need to be, or I fear it is "back to the chalkboard" for humanity.

Now you all shake hands, hug it out, and cowboy the **** up. It's almost showtime, and you're about to go on.

From my heart to yours.


Dennis

[torzbc]

I thought Avalon was a place to come an contribute and grow...
People can't and won't do that here is they are constantly harassed by what seems just a few of the members..

Exactly. I (and the other mods) will do whatever it takes to make this a safe and respected place to express opinions and offer their perspectives and information. That does not mean it's okay to smear, disrespect, or criticize others without extremely good grounds.

Ditto and... Touche...:)

[ulli]

I thought Avalon was a place to come an contribute and grow...
People can't and won't do that here is they are constantly harassed by what seems just a few of the members..

Exactly. I (and the other mods) will do whatever it takes to make this a safe and respected place to express opinions and offer their perspectives and information. That does not mean it's okay to smear, disrespect, or criticize others without extremely good grounds.

Ditto and... Touche...:)

Wow, that was a tough birth, but what a beautiful BABY!

[lightblue]

torzbc
Bill... I am with you on this one as are TOO many members of this forum...
I am at a loss to understand where this hatred comes from, so many people have given thanks to James for his contributing work to the truth movement... yet it seems bashi is coming from a different mind set...only I am unable to see its posts as I have them on ignore so thanks for the quote...
I really have no idea what this person is going on about...
I thought Avalon was a place to come an contribute and grow...
People can't and won't do that here is they are constantly harassed by what seems just a few of the members..

why do you think has j horak used most inappropriate language in many of his posts, also called some people names and used derogatory terminology? why?

i remember reading a short lived thread just yesterday morning packed full of defamatory terms aimed at one of our moderators - by j horak...when i tried to look at it later again as goldenyears wodneded what did happen to that tread - i looked and found it was deleted?! why? hope not with a purpose that my/or anyone's commmenting on that issue be not un-upheld.. ..maybe i even get accused of slander...hope it's not come to that ..bill please do check with your mods and paul to make sure i am not thinking this up.. thanks :yu: l
.

[torzbc]

--------

Dear Friends,

I'm posting this here as a definitive statement. I'll close the thread later once every one interested has had the opportunity to read this.

James explained perfectly clearly what had happened here:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?14605-Can-We-TRUST-CHARLES-Our-REAL-HISTORY-and-the-E.T.-INVASION-*LIE*&p=165764&viewfull=1#post165764

... but this seems to have been missed by some posters on this thread (Rocky_Shorz and bashi, and maybe others).

James wrote:




Let me refer to one thing on the link that bitworm so graciously provides. You will notice that both myself and Gordon Tibbles are editors of Anomalog. Tibbles was my student at the time in Unified Consciousness. [mod-edit: Some text deleted. This site does not take a position regarding what might have transpired between Mr's Horak, Tibbles and Bergrun. -- Paul] I have not and would never say one deprecating word about this truly fine scientist [Dr. Bergrun] and brave pioneer in his field. On his website I compare him to both Copernicus and Galileo with good reasons. That will remain my belief throughout all my longevity.
JCH


It was completely obvious that no-one would doctor their own bio as a self-smear. I could see immediately what had happened. Everyone here should have.

James is understandably outraged that so many people kept on quoting the deliberately-corrupted bio (which of course had been copied over and again all over the internet).

As someone who has been smeared several times myself (including recently!), James has my full sympathy. As many of you know, I have been traveling and working for the last 2-3 weeks, and have not been up to speed with many posts, threads and developments. James has been e-mailing me imploring me to understand what had happened.

As a final statement from myself:

James Horak in no way discredited or undermined Dr Norman Bergrun, and never would.

I welcome all his contributions to the forum. I do understand why he chose to leave.

I ask everyone to treat our guests rather better than they have done (in some cases, this is a mild understatement). This is of the utmost importance for the integrity of Avalon and I ask you all to be careful and responsible with your assumptions. Many thanks.

Thank-you Bill for clearing up and verifying this gross misrepresentation and obvious slanderous actions by some of the members of this forum...... who many are now aware of..... and can you tell us what will be the repercussions for the people who were involved in this serious issue? that in itself was almost on the point of causing even more serious repercussions for Avalon..... many recently seem to have been banned for much less...........
I and I'm sure many others are very appreciative of your publicly clearing this up at last.
My deepest regards...
Torz BC

It's ok Lightblue, no point in rehashing over issues that have already been cleared up by the Owner of Avalon, I think Bill has already dealt with this.... I'm back off to facebook now.. see you around :)

[RAKMEiSTER]

- + - = sync by 3rd eye = L/R = G/B = selfjudge&judgenon= know inner is expression outer = is integration & accumalation & lettinggo aka deattach is multiperceptional = is non polarity. thus duality in sync. = choice = time = experience = life = care = share .. well thats long enough <3

[Rocky_Shorz]

--------

Dear Friends,

I'm posting this here as a definitive statement. I'll close the thread later once every one interested has had the opportunity to read this.

James explained perfectly clearly what had happened here:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?14605-Can-We-TRUST-CHARLES-Our-REAL-HISTORY-and-the-E.T.-INVASION-*LIE*&p=165764&viewfull=1#post165764

... but this seems to have been missed by some posters on this thread (Rocky_Shorz and bashi, and maybe others).

James wrote:




Let me refer to one thing on the link that bitworm so graciously provides. You will notice that both myself and Gordon Tibbles are editors of Anomalog. Tibbles was my student at the time in Unified Consciousness. [mod-edit: Some text deleted. This site does not take a position regarding what might have transpired between Mr's Horak, Tibbles and Bergrun. -- Paul] I have not and would never say one deprecating word about this truly fine scientist [Dr. Bergrun] and brave pioneer in his field. On his website I compare him to both Copernicus and Galileo with good reasons. That will remain my belief throughout all my longevity.
JCH


It was completely obvious that no-one would doctor their own bio as a self-smear. I could see immediately what had happened. Everyone here should have.

James is understandably outraged that so many people kept on quoting the deliberately-corrupted bio (which of course had been copied over and again all over the internet).

As someone who has been smeared several times myself (including recently!), James has my full sympathy. As many of you know, I have been traveling and working for the last 2-3 weeks, and have not been up to speed with many posts, threads and developments. James has been e-mailing me imploring me to understand what had happened.

As a final statement from myself:

James Horak in no way discredited or undermined Dr Norman Bergrun, and never would.

I welcome all his contributions to the forum. I do understand why he chose to leave.

I ask everyone to treat our guests rather better than they have done (in some cases, this is a mild understatement). This is of the utmost importance for the integrity of Avalon and I ask you all to be careful and responsible with your assumptions. Many thanks.

hi Bill,

I'm sure most know I tried to step in front of an oncoming train...

link (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?14605-Can-We-TRUST-CHARLES-Our-REAL-HISTORY-and-the-E.T.-INVASION-*LIE*/page7)

I have no hard feelings about any of this, just wanted everyone to calm down, they are all my friends...

so please everyone calm down, James was still on my friends list until he left...

now we have a disaster we need to concentrate on, can we leave all of this behind us?

[Ahkenaten]

While of course this is Bill's Forum and I defer to his final judgment in these matters as a matter of business, in reality it is a fine line where legitimate questions about someone's intentions and integrity segue into smears. I think that several Forum members including myself raised issues concerning Mr. Horak's intentions here and to a great extent his own language revealed, IMO, where he is coming from. I did not consider my posts to be defamatory or a smear inasmuch as I was directing PA Forum members to Mr. Horak's own comments in a publicly-posted video.

[lightblue]

torzbc[
It's ok Lightblue, no point in rehashing over issues that have already been cleared up by the Owner of Avalon, I think Bill has already dealt with this.... I'm back off to facebook now.. see you around

thanks for your response, but i remain unconvinced that bill had a chance to read the thread so to be able to get clearer picture regarding this issue... the therad - that's no longer - is important for everyone to understand that this has been pretty much a two way traffic..personally i was appalled at the content of it.. i actually have never read anything like it here on avalon...

this is why i think it is important for bill to retrieve that thread..i trust he wil..:wink:.l

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Farewell, you will be missed. Just not by me:(:p

[stegosaur]

how exactly are the doubters trying to vet posters around here?

badgering them until they crack as some proof of disingenuous nature ?

we are all souls trapped in human bodies subject to fear - with enough persistence i bet would could get ghandi to crack on these forums but what would be the point?

prejudice skepticism is not a substitute for critical examination

[Realeyes]

I am new to forums and still learning how to navigate around this site.

I click on most days and keep shaking my head to see another thread and drama of sorts kicking off.

:gossip: :croc:

I just don’t understand why we can’t just get on with each other and be civil and respectful of each others truths. I thought this forum attracted the best minds of truth seekers and spiritual knowledge yet each day I am becoming more and more dismayed and starting to think us humans will never live peacefully together.

I just don’t understand why we are not celebrating everyone’s unique presence – each one of us represents a piece in the mind of God/Source/Creator. :kiss:

My thoughts of love go to Bill Ryan who has a very busy life doing important work for all of us - yet he has to keep stepping in to stop the bickering - he has certainly shown patience! I am very sorry to hear another member (James Horack) has felt the need to leave. There seems to be more ‘leaving’ than ‘becoming’.

I am placing Avalon in my healing focus.

:grouphug:

[jorr lundstrom]

While of course this is Bill's Forum and I defer to his final judgment in these matters as a matter of business, in reality it is a fine line where legitimate questions about someone's intentions and integrity segue into smears. I think that several Forum members including myself raised issues concerning Mr. Horak's intentions here and to a great extent his own language revealed, IMO, where he is coming from. I did not consider my posts to be defamatory or a smear inasmuch as I was directing PA Forum members to Mr. Horak's own comments in a publicly-posted video.

Ok Ahkenaten, I get your point of view. I do not consider myself being a christian,

but I do love the stories about the man Jesus. Beautiful often breathtaking stories,

but lets not discuss those stories here, lets focus on the event when he poked his nose in

public. And lets discuss only that because thats a situation when he is human.

Get it?




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxspqJo_iME

[Lord Sidious]

Takk, Jorr.
Kookaburras are brilliant.
Nothing better than waking up on a beautiful morning and hearing a stack of them up in the trees singing.
Even my cats like it!

[Kimberley]

I am new to forums and still learning how to navigate around this site.

I click on most days and keep shaking my head to see another thread and drama of sorts kicking off.

:gossip: :croc:

I just don’t understand why we can’t just get on with each other and be civil and respectful of each others truths. I thought this forum attracted the best minds of truth seekers and spiritual knowledge yet each day I am becoming more and more dismayed and starting to think us humans will never live peacefully together.

I just don’t understand why we are not celebrating everyone’s unique presence – each one of us represents a piece in the mind of God/Source/Creator. :kiss:

My thoughts of love go to Bill Ryan who has a very busy life doing important work for all of us - yet he has to keep stepping in to stop the bickering - he has certainly shown patience! I am very sorry to hear another member (James Horack) has felt the need to leave. There seems to be more ‘leaving’ than ‘becoming’.

I am placing Avalon in my healing focus.

:grouphug:

I too have found myself shaking my head when yet another drama pops up in this forum... and have been asking myself for better clarity and understanding in these matters that I am witnessing here in this forum. I suggest we all keep asking for better clarity and understanding in these matters as these issues are key to creating the new civilization....

Since I take personal responsibility for everything that is in my reality/view (including the drama that pops up in this forum) I will share some of the understanding I have gained observing and participating here...

We are learning to do things in a new way... humans have had some "bad habits" for 1000's of years ... like war for instance. We are learning to live from our hearts to trust our hearts and know that love and peace begins within each of us individual. We are here helping each other and supporting each other to live in love & peace.... we are not "there" yet... we are still learning how to be "there" how to create our reality. So we need to be easy on ourselves and others.

We are also learning to not judge. Humans have been judgmental creatures for a very long. And we are learning to forgive, with learning to forgive ourselves being much harder that forgiving others... I could add more to the list, however I think you get the point.

Be easy on yourself and others we have been making changes that took thousand of years to build... so it takes a little while to change them in the ways we are choosing to change...

So yes I too have thought geez if this group of people can not operate in peace is there any hope? The answer is that YES this forum is incredible!!!!

I chose to look at all that IS working here and what IS working here far overrides the bumps that come to the surface from time to time... What an honor to be in community with every one here at Avalon!!!! There is tremendous manifestation power in hundreds of people gathering together in the name of love and peace... Thank YOU for choosing to be here now, thank you for co-creating with me now.

Thank you for keeping your eyes and your thoughts on love & peace and sharing your love and your peace. What you focus on is what you get. So I chose t see all the love and peace this gathers here... and I thank you ALL for joining me in doing that!!!

:love: :grouphug: :love:

[Lifebringer]

I hope this isn't becomming an anti-respect of other's questioning for answers. Although I am busy finishing off a book, I look to unwind on the path to enlightenment and unified praying if neccessary, to have the knowledged of truth flow to those who are still new to it. I don't claim to know all the answers, but I do know I plan on continuing the path for truth, to make better the world, that's full of lies and deception. The people can take it from there. I just don't want to leave so much corruption on our children. WE taught them to trust our countrymen, love God and your neighbors, and make the world better.

The chaotic corruption of financial, planetary, and Oppression of nations, is NOT my idea of a future for our children and grandchildren. IF WE DIDN'T LIKE IT, THEY CERTAINLY WON'T LIKE BEING ROBBED EVERY TEN YEARS EITHER.

Their generation Demands the TRUTH, or they will not listen to the fairy tales and rewrites of history.
I think hte older and set in their ways crowd should listen to their dreams and help to make them work. They need HONEST BROKERS IN GOVERMENT AND BANKING IF THEY ARE TO HAVE A CHANCE.
So the "Justice part" of it is about to happen.

I feel it in my soul. God has heard and made the decision that this matrix of deceit, is over.
Time to move forward and out of the cocoon, to be the beautiful universal butterflies, we are meant to be by his will.
Stay true and seek others that are the connection and have some tolerance of those who are not that far, in the process and still have a few quirks(myself included) to iron out.
Peace

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Our cross/trial to bare, and fix for our children and their future, is OUR mission in life

[Vrilya]

Good morning all. James post caught my eye straight away, as he and I joined this forum around the same time and pretty much the same reason, ie. the infamous Charles, This is my first post because I've been trying to acclimate myself to this forum and read as much about Charles as I could. I recall reading in one of his posts that he tended to divide people. Well, just look what he's done in such a short time......., that we are hybrid cows and human? That right there folks told me a lot about "Charles" These thoughts are what the PTW what us to continue thinking. Thinking in 3-d,, Kindergarten, prison plant matrix. But all that is for another forum...........
I'm sorry James felt he had to leave, but I totally understand. Do we really need to remind ourselves of the "Golden Rules"
I did'nt think so.
Blessings and Love Always

[araucaria]

With or without the involvement of carrots.

Preferably without, dear Mr Sidious, if it's all the same to you. One can have too much of a good thing, don't you know?

[Lord Sidious]

With or without the involvement of carrots.

Preferably without, dear Mr Sidious, if it's all the same to you. One can have too much of a good thing, don't you know?

They aren't necesserily good up your nostrologies though, are they?

[str8thinker]

Crikey, we're up to 12 pages now on James Horak's goodbye.

Will some mod please close this thread? If necessary, start a private discussion room for him as I suggested earlier.

This thread will only degenerate if we continue leaving it open.

[bashi]

How do you know that he has?

Anyone can accuse anyone of anything. That doesn't mean it's the ethical thing to do. You may be wrong,

Hi Bill,
i think i got your point (now).
I am intending to start a neutral thread to clear this matter up, but will have to do some homework first, in order to be able to present some more substantial info.
What is your opinion about this endeavour?

[Gardener]

I don't think I need to convince anyone that forums of this nature attract disruption from any number of areas. Forums are monitored for information and if there is anything which comes too close to the truth the disruptors move in.

They operate in rings, and can be anything from disinfo which sounds really convincing, to downright spam mouth attacks. They usually operate in two's, called tag teams, sometimes you can recognise them by their join date but not always as they can post for months with appropriate but not necessarily useful data or links.

Its down to the mods to quickly recognise a tag team and bring it under control. Its a difficult call, particularly with either fundamentalist religious groups, or pathological personalities who enjoy the disruption they cause, it makes them feel powerful. These can also be voyeristic and or mythomanic, (fantasy at the sharp end of narcissism).

None of this is simple trolling, they come in and go very quickly.

Anyway I just wanted to put this info out so anyone can use disernment, tune your BS detectors. This forum is supposed to be open minded to new ideas and taking what you feel fits for you right now. As previously said, there is an icon to let the mods know if you think trouble could be brewing, absolutely no need to bash visitors or argue the toss on the thread, it is not appropriate.

g

[Beloved]

I'm new to this forum, but people, people!! While the rest of the planet is nigh on imploding, the amount of bickering and politics occurring here is a bit disheartening. We were all blessed enough to be first recipients ahead of the learning curve enabled to be here and understand a great deal of the groundbreaking information on this site as well as from our spiritual journeys. Could we all not amp it up a bit, be more tolerant of opposing ideas in a gracious manner and indeed individually truly focus on becoming the change that we all seek? Or is it really a case of Republican / Democrat manifestos and like mindsets?

[finally there!!!]

maybe we can just learn to take things with a pinch of salt..
lets face it nobody knows the real truth to anything and to be honest i dont think we ever will know it..
so lets all just enjoy the experience

love and respect

[Flash]

I don't think I need to convince anyone that forums of this nature attract disruption from any number of areas. Forums are monitored for information and if there is anything which comes too close to the truth the disruptors move in.

They operate in rings, and can be anything from disinfo which sounds really convincing, to downright spam mouth attacks. They usually operate in two's, called tag teams, sometimes you can recognise them by their join date but not always as they can post for months with appropriate but not necessarily useful data or links.

Its down to the mods to quickly recognise a tag team and bring it under control. Its a difficult call, particularly with either fundamentalist religious groups, or pathological personalities who enjoy the disruption they cause, it makes them feel powerful. These can also be voyeristic and or mythomanic, (fantasy at the sharp end of narcissism).

None of this is simple trolling, they come in and go very quickly.

Anyway I just wanted to put this info out so anyone can use disernment, tune your BS detectors. This forum is supposed to be open minded to new ideas and taking what you feel fits for you right now. As previously said, there is an icon to let the mods know if you think trouble could be brewing, absolutely no need to bash visitors or argue the toss on the thread, it is not appropriate.

g

Maybe we should put this on almost every thread. This is very informative. Knowing how PTB proceeds with forums would help everyone of us decipher what is going on and may be report to mods.