King James Bible

[humanalien]

How I Know The King James Bible is the Word of God

http://www.av1611.org/kjv/knowkjv.html

This web site has helped me a lot in knowing
what is really the true word of God.

I can now sleep easy knowing that i have
chosen my bible well......

God promised to keep his word pure and unedited
and this web site proved to me that the KJV (Not
to be mistaken with the New KJV), is the true
word of God.

I could be wrong here and i'll have to read the
web site again but i think it said that the easiest
way to find out if the bible that you currently are
using is Gods word, is to look and see if the bible
is copyrighted.

The KJV is not copyrighted like all the rest, there-fore
it is freely available as a public domain to be reprinted
and circulated.

[slipknotted]

many people who know say the king james edition is the one to go with the only one they say. me i took the red pill !

[conk]

Oh boy. That can of worms is about to fall over. Get your popcorn.

[Lord Sidious]

No book is the word of god.
They are some man/woman's version of that word.
The word of your creator/s is in you, why need a book?

[Gone002]

Would the catholic bible not be the "best" because king james was editied even more than the catholic bible.

[humanalien]

Would the catholic bible not be the "best" because king james was editied even more than the catholic bible.

According to the web site, way back when, the romans heavily
edited Gods word by removing what they didn't like and added
to it, what they wanted.

If this is correct then that would mean not only is the catholic
bible "Not Gods Word" but that the catholic religion is wrong to.

I'm not sure what the bible was like before king james but during
his rule, he was the one that removed everything that wasn't
inspired by God to write. This is when the bible took on the
king james name.

That in itself probably doesn't mean that everything that was not
inspired by God to write wasn't true, it just means that God didn't
want anything in his bible that didn't come from him.

You can think of it like this:

A world renown chef is in his kitchen, creating his signature pot
of soup. He added all the best ingredients and spices and everything
is perfect. He turns his back for a moment to take care of another
matter and someone sneaks in that is a wanna be chef that thinks
that by adding in different ingredients and spices to the soup
that it will be much better than what the chef has created.

Well now, the soup has been edited (changed) and now the
signature soup is no long the chefs but the wanna chefs. It's
no longer that great signature soup but just a mess in a pot.

[Lord Sidious]

Would the catholic bible not be the "best" because king james was editied even more than the catholic bible.

One thing I would say about that, is it still has the apocrypha.
If you read the book of Susannah, you will find where the structure and operation of the courts comes from.
Not all, but some of the key parts are in that book.

[KosmicKat]

Follow the trail back; the King James Bible was copied almost verbatim from the "Geneva" Bible which had to be published in Switzerland to get around the laws governing publishing in England.

[slvrfx]

My resources say the King James Bible was commissioned by, of course, King James, who had Francis Bacon as the head of a team who translated it.

(It's believed also that this same Francis Bacon wrote much under the pen-name, William Shakespeare. This group Bacon was a member of, also referred to themselves as, "Spear-Shakers".)

It is supposedly encrypted. Laden with esoteric truths, for these men were key members of some of the most secret societies.

Consider the men of the Enlightenment...the European Renaissance. The movement by intelligent people that brought Europe out of the Dark Ages.

(These men also came over to America, and brought their concepts of freedom...the Bill of Rights, the Constitution.)

[Herbert]

The King James version edited by Francis Bacon was written to appeal to the right brain through poetic verse. When you appeal only to the left brain as most simplified modern versions do, you get into trouble becasue the magic is gone. It isn't the words per ce that matter. That is what most people don't get. It's like they can't see the forest for the trees. It's the same when scientists look too closely at genes instead of the cosmic energy of the living DNA molecule. It is the connection with the heart through a beautiful story designed to replace the old testament for reading in church. The poetic and mystical story inspires love. Yes the Romans probably edited parts and could have added the cross bit which doesn't somehow seem to jibe with love to me. I'm not fond of Paul's version either. But Bacon was masterful in ensuring that the heart got involved. I am not religious but as a child I loved the magic and that is the message I got from King James version. Modern versions seem dead to me. Regarding America's founders, yes Thomas Jefferson left the best quotes and cut through the crap better than anyone.
Don't get caught up in the words. Pay attention to the melody.

[slvrfx]

The King James version edited by Francis Bacon was written to appeal to the right brain through poetic verse. When you appeal only to the left brain as most simplified modern versions do, you get into trouble becasue the magic is gone. It isn't the words per ce that matter. That is what most people don't get. It's like they can't see the forest for the trees. It's the same when scientists look too closely at genes instead of the cosmic energy of the living DNA molecule. It is the connection with the heart through a beautiful story designed to replace the old testament for reading in church. The poetic and mystical story inspires love. Yes the Romans probably edited parts and could have added the cross bit which doesn't somehow seem to jibe with love to me. I'm not fond of Paul's version either. But Bacon was masterful in ensuring that the heart got involved. I am not religious but as a child I loved the magic and that is the message I got from King James version. Modern versions seem dead to me. Regarding America's founders, yes Thomas Jefferson left the best quotes and cut through the crap better than anyone.
Don't get caught up in the words. Pay attention to the melody.

Very interesting comments here. I immediately started thinking 'resonance' and 'tone'. The higher vibrational levels that remind us of things we know already.

Tones, resonance, MUSIC, mathematics, and more...behind the creative process.

Makes me think even more, these men knew what they were doing.

(Extra thought I just got...as Jesus spoke in parables, so those who had ears would hear- the Music is playing for those who are hearing now.)

We are not alone, we never were.

[PurpleLama]

I read the entire page.

Wow.

Just wow.

[PurpleLama]

No book is the word of god.
They are some man/woman's version of that word.
The word of your creator/s is in you, why need a book?

Read the entire page. Your brain melts before the end and you rest easy in the understanding that God actually wrote the King James Version, and apparently even JC references it. It must be God's true word if it can be referenced 1400 years in advance. Think about it.

[Lord Sidious]

No book is the word of god.
They are some man/woman's version of that word.
The word of your creator/s is in you, why need a book?

Read the entire page. Your brain melts before the end and you rest easy in the understanding that God actually wrote the King James Version, and apparently even JC references it. It must be God's true word if it can be referenced 1400 years in advance. Think about it.

I have no idea what you mean.
Could you explain please?

[PurpleLama]

No book is the word of god.
They are some man/woman's version of that word.
The word of your creator/s is in you, why need a book?

Read the entire page. Your brain melts before the end and you rest easy in the understanding that God actually wrote the King James Version, and apparently even JC references it. It must be God's true word if it can be referenced 1400 years in advance. Think about it.

I have no idea what you mean.
Could you explain please?

Sorry, I mean read the page linked to in the original post. Then you will see. It's is both more damaging and more entertaining than illegal drugs.

[Wub]

The King James Bible is widely considered to be the most poetic and brilliantly written version of the Bible in existence.

Its poetry is said to hold a key to understanding the origins of creation right through to the time of tribulation and beyond into the new kingdom - a post apocalyptical period of renewal and recognition of what it is that makes us spiritual as well as material beings.

Read the text. You may find yourself pleasantly surprised as to how it resonates with modern day man (and woman)

[PurpleLama]

I have no criticism for the King James Version of the Holy Bible.
However, this does not change the apparent fact that the person who wtote the web page linked to in the original post is, as we say here in the Bible Belt, crazier than a june bug. To those outside of the geographical anomaly I call home: that means really, really crazy.

[HORIZONS]

As far as a literal translation of the actual Hebrew and Greek words themselves, the KJV is way off the mark in this area. A literal translation is best for study.

[PurpleLama]

I urge everyone to read the entire page that is linked in the original post, but please do so at your own risk. No swimming or operating a motor vehicle or any heavy machinery for at least thirty minutes if you can make it all the way to the bottom.

[Rog]

I don't want to break anyone's toes with my stepping but I love my honesty and you can call me "Frank" for it. A bunch of ink on a sewn together dead plant or tree is not The "Word" of "God". The only manner in which it is is the same reason the jeans I'm currently wearing are. We have been specifically and intentionally conditioned to look to text for divinity. Why? Because what ultimately puts people in prison and allows society to accept institutions of control is through our blasphemous reverance for text. That being said, all things are involved in the wizardly play of divine inspiration. Francis Bacon knew this and concentrated his efforts in text because we are a people and world bound by it's limitations. It's like we have blinders on that make us think that "God", otherwise recognizable as Zeus' "brother" or doppleganger, would only provide divinity in that limited way. Hogwash.

I challenge you to have the courage, confidence, and boldness to recognize your self as the "word". Be I wrong or right, I refuse to believe that which is divine to be so limited and uncreative. I'm fairly sure I'll "hawk" you all throughout eternity until you develop this realization and put aside the tree corpses. :)

/opinion

Namaste

[Lord Sidious]

No book is the word of god.
They are some man/woman's version of that word.
The word of your creator/s is in you, why need a book?

Read the entire page. Your brain melts before the end and you rest easy in the understanding that God actually wrote the King James Version, and apparently even JC references it. It must be God's true word if it can be referenced 1400 years in advance. Think about it.

I have no idea what you mean.
Could you explain please?

Sorry, I mean read the page linked to in the original post. Then you will see. It's is both more damaging and more entertaining than illegal drugs.

Aha, got ya.
With all respect to you, I have transcended religions, so bibles and whatnot are not of much interest to me, nor is anything that people claims is written by the creator.
Sorry.

[Maria Stade]

No book is the word of god.
They are some man/woman's version of that word.
The word of your creator/s is in you, why need a book?

Read the entire page. Your brain melts before the end and you rest easy in the understanding that God actually wrote the King James Version, and apparently even JC references it. It must be God's true word if it can be referenced 1400 years in advance. Think about it.

I have no idea what you mean.
Could you explain please?

Sorry, I mean read the page linked to in the original post. Then you will see. It's is both more damaging and more entertaining than illegal drugs.

Aha, got ya.
With all respect to you, I have transcended religions, so bibles and whatnot are not of much interest to me, nor is anything that people claims is written by the creator.
Sorry.

Yea people write books !

Carrots and love

[Shezbeth]

Let's not forget the infamous Council of Nicaea (Nycea? Nicea? Nyce? Nice! whatever).

You know, a bunch of 'authorities' deciding well into the aftermath what the book should say. Good buncha guys there. ^_~

[PurpleLama]

Rog, I challenge you to have the courage and confidence to read the web page that humanalien linked in the original post.

[jorr lundstrom]

Let's not forget the infamous Council of Nicaea (Nycea? Nicea? Nyce? Nice! whatever).

You know, a bunch of 'authorities' deciding well into the aftermath what the book should say. Good buncha guys there. ^_~

Its was in the year 400 in Nicea. They voted on if women should be seen as belonging to humankind.

And the idea that women should won with one vote.

[Maria Stade]

Let's not forget the infamous Council of Nicaea (Nycea? Nicea? Nyce? Nice! whatever).

You know, a bunch of 'authorities' deciding well into the aftermath what the book should say. Good buncha guys there. ^_~

Its was in the year 400 in Nicea. They voted on if women should be seen as belonging to humankind.

And the idea that women should won with one vote.

Oh one wote, dosent seem they were quite sure LOL
:bad: or was god not sure ?

[PurpleLama]

No book is the word of god.
They are some man/woman's version of that word.
The word of your creator/s is in you, why need a book?

Read the entire page. Your brain melts before the end and you rest easy in the understanding that God actually wrote the King James Version, and apparently even JC references it. It must be God's true word if it can be referenced 1400 years in advance. Think about it.

I have no idea what you mean.
Could you explain please?

Sorry, I mean read the page linked to in the original post. Then you will see. It's is both more damaging and more entertaining than illegal drugs.

Aha, got ya.
With all respect to you, I have transcended religions, so bibles and whatnot are not of much interest to me, nor is anything that people claims is written by the creator.
Sorry.

I apologize, my brain was turned to mush, earlier. The page humanalien was written as something quite serious, which is tragic beyond belief, but that does not stop it from being the funniest thing I have read in quite some long time. The only thing I have come across that I can compare it to is the Star Wars Holiday Special, in the sense that you can't tear your eyes off of it exactly because it's so bad. The article, if you want to call it that is sort of a condensed, Christian Star Wars Holiday Special in text form. I, too, have transcended all sorts of things, but not my taste for irreverent humor. This is no affront to Christian belief, however. Anyone who reads the thing will understand. Prepare to have all your logic circuits melt down completely should you dare to read.

Thanks to humanalien.

[Lord Sidious]

No book is the word of god.
They are some man/woman's version of that word.
The word of your creator/s is in you, why need a book?

Read the entire page. Your brain melts before the end and you rest easy in the understanding that God actually wrote the King James Version, and apparently even JC references it. It must be God's true word if it can be referenced 1400 years in advance. Think about it.

I have no idea what you mean.
Could you explain please?

Sorry, I mean read the page linked to in the original post. Then you will see. It's is both more damaging and more entertaining than illegal drugs.

Aha, got ya.
With all respect to you, I have transcended religions, so bibles and whatnot are not of much interest to me, nor is anything that people claims is written by the creator.
Sorry.

I apologize, my brain was turned to mush, earlier. The page humanalien was written as something quite serious, which is tragic beyond belief, but that does not stop it from being the funniest thing I have read in quite some long time. The only thing I have come across that I can compare it to is the Star Wars Holiday Special, in the sense that you can't tear your eyes off of it exactly because it's so bad. The article, if you want to call it that is sort of a condensed, Christian Star Wars Holiday Special in text form. I, too, have transcended all sorts of things, but not my taste for irreverent humor. This is no affront to Christian belief, however. Anyone who reads the thing will understand. Prepare to have all your logic circuits melt down completely should you dare to read.

Thanks to humanalien.

Do me a favour, don't attempt to humiliate another member here because you disagree with them.
By all means, disagree, but attempting to point the finger of humiliation isn't good.
One may point at Humanalien, but three point back at you, the law of attraction and the rule of three in play.
We don't like smart alecs on Avalon.
If I have misunderstood you, then please enlighten me as to how I have.

[PurpleLama]

I am operating completely under the assumption that humanalien posted a link to something that's completely over the top, and then proceeded to make what I took for ironic, humorous statements about it, having read the page linked, too.

If humanalien didn't intend the original post to be humorous, then I am really, really, really sorry, having not just put my foot in my mouth, but my entire leg as well.

My thanks to humanalien are very sincere for sharing whether or not it was intended the way it was taken. All jokes aside I shall shut my mouth until the original poster comes along to clear things up.

[Shezbeth]

Its was in the year 400 in Nicea. They voted on if women should be seen as belonging to humankind.

And the idea that women should won with one vote.

400AD in this context IS aftermath, and I DOUBT that voting about women is all that went on there. I further doubt that the official story even remotely resembles the truth, but I am open to referenced sources and new information. ^_^

[9eagle9]

The King James Version was created to support the burning of millions of people from herbalists to people who were just a bit weird. To support the Witchhunts.

Suffer not a witch to live is a sort of added commandment.

Nice Stuff God or perhaps James thought he was God.

You become what you worship. If you honor God's of War you will be warlike. We assume the characteristics of that which we honor. So what are we honoring these days?

[humanalien]

You know what? I posted that link believing that i had finally found
something that proved that there is, in fact a true version of Gods word
still existing among the people of the world.

I was very happy to find this information because my faith has been
lacking for years. I was concerned that the bible that i was reading
from, wasn't the true word of God so there-fore i began searching
around for the true bible of God. Now i know that i had it the whole
time and didn't know it.

I thought i would post my finding here to get some intelligent feed
back on this but apparently that didn't happen. It's fine if you don't
agree but when you call me out by name and attempt to embarrass
me in front of everyone, that is taking things to far.

I'm new here and i have done nothing to any of you, yet you still
sling your flaming arrows at me. I don't understand this behavior.

You all make claim to being above all the flame throwing around here
because you are enlightened or you are full of love. Funny thing is
that i don't see it at all in your words. Your words are hurtful.

Thank-you Lord Sidious for sticking up for me.

Now i'm going to go consider leaving this place. Maybe i just
don't belong at this site.

[Rog]

You all make claim to being above all the flame throwing around here
because you are enlightened or you are full of love. Funny thing is
that i don't see it at all in your words. Your words are hurtful.

Thank-you Lord Sidious for sticking up for me.

Now i'm going to go consider leaving this place. Maybe i just
don't belong at this site.

I just wanna say I don't make those claims for one. I'm not sure how you construed my post but I meant it to be engaging and productive. If I have to come off like an ass from time to time to provide frank perspectives I'm ok with that. If you have found inspiring text in that work it's not irrelevant, it's just not good to place such a sacred context on it.

The Harvard professor Richard Alpert who left with Tim Leary eventually found his strength in Eastern teachings and brought them back to America, centralized in his work Be Here Now. This work is considered magic, it can provide itself as a medium just the same way Biblical texts claim to. It comes down to where you're at personally, but a rule of the thumb should be to never believe anything outside of you to be too important or critical to your connection to sacred knowledge.

As far as feeling too much heat, check out this (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?16010-Taking-Avalon-forward.-Bill-Ryan-Members-Moderators-departed-this-is-for-you) thread by John, it helps to keep things in context. We're in this together, and being in this world there's plenty of flaming blades and arrows to come. All we can do is learn our way through the flames.

Thanks for putting yourself out on the limb with your beliefs.

[Lord Sidious]

You know what? I posted that link believing that i had finally found
something that proved that there is, in fact a true version of Gods word
still existing among the people of the world.

I was very happy to find this information because my faith has been
lacking for years. I was concerned that the bible that i was reading
from, wasn't the true word of God so there-fore i began searching
around for the true bible of God. Now i know that i had it the whole
time and didn't know it.

I thought i would post my finding here to get some intelligent feed
back on this but apparently that didn't happen. It's fine if you don't
agree but when you call me out by name and attempt to embarrass
me in front of everyone, that is taking things to far.

I'm new here and i have done nothing to any of you, yet you still
sling your flaming arrows at me. I don't understand this behavior.

You all make claim to being above all the flame throwing around here
because you are enlightened or you are full of love. Funny thing is
that i don't see it at all in your words. Your words are hurtful.

Thank-you Lord Sidious for sticking up for me.

Now i'm going to go consider leaving this place. Maybe i just
don't belong at this site.

Come on man, don't pack up because of one stupid post.
There is too much here of value for you to learn.
I have learnt so much here and I have only been here 2 months.

[9eagle9]

Maybe I should answer this since I don't claim to be full of love and light. So I don't run the risk of being a hypocrite.

An intelligent and critically thunk debate cannot be arranged around an article that promotes a philosophy of segregation, genocide, infantcide, dreams, past tense prophecy, and torture to substantiate it. Especially probably not a good idea to present such material to group of people who oppose such precepts. Rather like presenting Hitler's memoirs to Holocaust survivors to marvel over.

People are attempting to bring themselves out of the dark ages, not further embed there. The document which is unverified and has little in the way of external authentication has been used as a basis of mind control and fear. There is no intelligent debate that can be formed about it, because its illogical to begin with. It doesn't promote free or original thought so I'm not sure how much of an intelligent discussion could be formed around it. I'm sure it has emotional value but critical thinking and intelligent debate aren't based in sentiments.

A group of people with the intention of exploring the human condition not further suppressing is not going to be interested. Considering that we only just have recently realized that religion was used to smother our human potential, people may be a tad offended at the suggestion that its a good place to go back to.

[Krullenjongen]

How I Know The King James Bible is the Word of God

http://www.av1611.org/kjv/knowkjv.html

This web site has helped me a lot in knowing
what is really the true word of God.

I can now sleep easy knowing that i have
chosen my bible well......

God promised to keep his word pure and unedited
and this web site proved to me that the KJV (Not
to be mistaken with the New KJV), is the true
word of God.

I could be wrong here and i'll have to read the
web site again but i think it said that the easiest
way to find out if the bible that you currently are
using is Gods word, is to look and see if the bible
is copyrighted.

The KJV is not copyrighted like all the rest, there-fore
it is freely available as a public domain to be reprinted
and circulated.

I really like that you want to find the right bible humanalien.
But it is not as easy as you think it is because there are a lot of things to consider.
I do believe that for the english language the KJV is the one that is closest to the original text but if you are really doing a word study you should always look at the greek and hebrew meanings of the words.

I myself have 4 different translations in my own language and have a KJV and use free software like "The Word" when i do bible studies. it helps to capture the fullness of the meaning.

I also must agree that a lot of new translations are edited too much and certain important things are left out.
if you want to see the differences, a good book about it is "New Age Bible Versions", by Gail Riplinger.

You can also watch the Google video but the picture and sound are not in sync so it's not the best video.
42385501735388990#

i also have an .pdf that has a shortlist of differences.
But i don't know how i can upload that.
If you want it PM me and i'll sent it to you.

[Krullenjongen]

No book is the word of god.
They are some man/woman's version of that word.
The word of your creator/s is in you, why need a book?

That's just as easy to say as that the bible is the Word of God.
No one can prove it!
All i can say is that if i submit the bible to a scientific measure to see how reliable the text is in comparison to other ancient texts that the bible is very reliable.
Next to that i must say that the bible is very special because it was written over a long period of time by many different writers who were sometimes very far apart. For a book written in this way it has a remarkable cohesion and consistency and is still the bestselling book in the world.

I would like to see what your arguments are for your statement mr. sidious.

[Krullenjongen]

Follow the trail back; the King James Bible was copied almost verbatim from the "Geneva" Bible which had to be published in Switzerland to get around the laws governing publishing in England.

i thought the KJV was based on the Textus Receptus.
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Textus_Receptus

[9eagle9]

There is no way to Prove the Existence of God or God's words since God is an element that cannot be measured or quantified. Words are only an attempt to give something to substance that really only exists in the minds eye of the beholder. A thought can be demonstrated in words, but it can't be proven as a thought is an intangible thing.

9eagle9 says that she is God. She can be measured, she can be quantified and she insists that she is God.

From this point on you will bow to no other because I can prove the existence of myself.

If the argument that word or texts quantify and prove something than that's all I need to validate that I am God. (not to mention my avatar clearly expresses that I have wings....so at the very least I am angelic or at a least a demi god). Until this point in the thread no other person has offered as much evidence for Godhood as I have.

Thus by my WORD alone I am God.

So based on your own reasoning of the Word of God provides factual evidence, I have supplanted that evidence with my own words.

I am God.

Send me a dollar and I'll be the rock upon that you build your church.

[Krullenjongen]

Let's not forget the infamous Council of Nicaea (Nycea? Nicea? Nyce? Nice! whatever).

You know, a bunch of 'authorities' deciding well into the aftermath what the book should say. Good buncha guys there. ^_~

Sorry but this is simply not true.
In fact, there is no record of any discussion of the Biblical Canon at the council of Nicea at all
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea#The_Biblical_Canon

[InCiDeR]

@HumanAlien

Thank you for your link!

Here you have the oldest translation of the old testament:


Septuagint

Septuagint - What is It?

Septuagint (sometimes abbreviated LXX) is the name given to the Greek translation of the Jewish Scriptures. The Septuagint has its origin in Alexandria, Egypt and was translated between 300-200 BC. Widely used among Hellenistic Jews, this Greek translation was produced because many Jews spread throughout the empire were beginning to lose their Hebrew language. The process of translating the Hebrew to Greek also gave many non-Jews a glimpse into Judaism. According to an ancient document called the Letter of Aristeas, it is believed that 70 to 72 Jewish scholars were commissioned during the reign of Ptolemy Philadelphus to carry out the task of translation. The term “Septuagint” means seventy in Latin, and the text is so named to the credit of these 70 scholars.

Read more
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Septuagint
http://www.septuagint.org/LXX/?ac=1

[Krullenjongen]

You know what? I posted that link believing that i had finally found
something that proved that there is, in fact a true version of Gods word
still existing among the people of the world.

I was very happy to find this information because my faith has been
lacking for years. I was concerned that the bible that i was reading
from, wasn't the true word of God so there-fore i began searching
around for the true bible of God. Now i know that i had it the whole
time and didn't know it.

I thought i would post my finding here to get some intelligent feed
back on this but apparently that didn't happen. It's fine if you don't
agree but when you call me out by name and attempt to embarrass
me in front of everyone, that is taking things to far.

I'm new here and i have done nothing to any of you, yet you still
sling your flaming arrows at me. I don't understand this behavior.

You all make claim to being above all the flame throwing around here
because you are enlightened or you are full of love. Funny thing is
that i don't see it at all in your words. Your words are hurtful.

Thank-you Lord Sidious for sticking up for me.

Now i'm going to go consider leaving this place. Maybe i just
don't belong at this site.

Hey humanalien hang in there, not everyone is like that.
I just found you, you kindred spirit.
And if you read the KJV you should know that it says that Christians will be rediculed for what they believe in.

I for one like the different views of the atheists, new agers and other faiths and hope to find some inteligent discussion here. Not everyone is open for that and you may be ridiculed for what you believe but i say shake it off and find some people that have similar interests and an open mind.

[Lord Sidious]

No book is the word of god.
They are some man/woman's version of that word.
The word of your creator/s is in you, why need a book?

That's just as easy to say as that the bible is the Word of God.
No one can prove it!
All i can say is that if i submit the bible to a scientific measure to see how reliable the text is in comparison to other ancient texts that the bible is very reliable.
Next to that i must say that the bible is very special because it was written over a long period of time by many different writers who were sometimes very far apart. For a book written in this way it has a remarkable cohesion and consistency and is still the bestselling book in the world.

I would like to see what your arguments are for your statement mr. sidious.

I am a Dark Lord of the Sith, stretching back to Darth Bane.
I need no argument, I AM the argument.

[conk]

Hang in there humanalien. It does not matter if anyone agrees on everything, otherwise there is no discussion. Just a bunch of folks sitting around nodding yes to each other.

[Rozzy]

The title of this thread is enough to provoke quite opposite points of view which in turn become battle fronts because it concerns some ones personal beliefs that are wholly attached to certain religious teachings individuals hold very dear and close to home.

First off there is no perfect version or translation of the Bible period. The canon itself was formulated by men who themselves were serving certain interests, religious, political, monetary, personal power etc.
King James himself was a Freemason who in and of itself puts him completely at odds with the Catholic Church. This power struggle was very real and forcefully fought by both sides. The Catholics tried their best to assassinate King Jimmy, King Jimmy not only published a Bible but he was also instrumental in reorganizing the Freemasons. The KJV became the sola scriptura to swear on for the Freemasons it was also the Bible for The Church of England. This was instrumental in the battle with the Catholics of the day.

[Rozzy]

As for the correctness of the KJV translation there are some pluses and some minuses. The plus side has King James fighting and winning to keep the intertestamental books in the Bible (now known as the Apocrypha Proper) These books were in fact Old Testament books that Jerome first coined the term "Apocrypha" to and which started the campaign to disparage and de emphasize their importance and relevance.
The KJV is made up of the Masoretic Text for the OT and the Nt is translated from the Textus Receptus (Received Text). The Masoretic Text is a MS produced by the Babylonian Talmudic Academy and is not the OT of the early church, Christ or His Apostles. The Septuagint Bible was the Bible quoted almost exclusively by Christ, His Apostles and the early Church fathers. The TR used for the KJV NT comes from mainly four MSS of Erasmus that he Edited and corrected in the early fifteen hundreds. The TR is not the same as the Majority Text as much as some would have you believe they are. The KJV NT are of the family of Byzantine Texts which in itself means Roman Texts.

The KJV New Testament is not a particularly bad text except for the translation manipulations inserted into them. The first thing to know is that 2 Peter and Jude are not scripture, they are widely held be Bible scholars and students of the Bible as Pseudepigrapha which I completely agree with that position. Interpolations into other texts for example such as John and 1 John have occurred, John Ch.8:1-11 (Pericope de Adultera) not found in any ancient MS or copy, not the Alexandrian, Syriac, Codex Bezae or the third century papyrus of John, nothing, zero. 1 John 5:7,8 are also not found in any ancient MS or copy, this verse/verses first shows up as a margin note on a medieval Latin MS. So as you can see the KJV is less than a perfect replica of the original Gospels and letters.

[Rozzy]

Let me show you something really simple but important when it comes to translation accuracy vs church doctrine, and the confidence or lack thereof by the faithful.

KJV Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen

Codex Sinaiticus (Greek text from 350 A.D.) (English Translation) Matthew 28:20 teaching them to observe all things whatever I commanded you. And lo, I am with you, all the days, to the conclusion of the age.

Notice how the KJV says "end of the world" while the literal translation is "conclusion of the age"
The end of the age is quite different than the end of the world, church doctrines want you to believe the world is going to burn up and it is all over. Hell forever or Heaven forever. The world has been through many ages, we once again are at the end of an age but the church wants you to believe it's doctrines rather than the ones taught by Christ. Christ never taught eternity in Hell, believe it or not it is true. Christ taught of an age of chastisement, correction or even punishment if you like but not eternal punishment or everlasting punishment. Eternal punishment comes only through translation manipulation, the Greek words were "aionios kolasis" which means "age of chastisement" not eternal punishment. To bad the church can not even be trusted to tell the truth.

[Shezbeth]

Sorry but this is simply not true.
In fact, there is no record of any discussion of the Biblical Canon at the council of Nicea at all
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea#The_Biblical_Canon

First off, I've read that one. Read the overview of that same page.

Secondly, you're citing Wikipedia as a credible source??

[Rozzy]

There are some things that even KJV only people are not aware of, the KJV of today is quite different from its predecessor the 1611 publication.

Church theologians have done a lot since 1611, they had to wait until after the death of King James to deal with those pesky books of the Apocrypha. The socalled books of the Apocrypha were and are part of the Septuagint Bible that dates back before the time of Christ. These books were intermingled with the rest of the Old Testament with no separate distinction whatsoever, the Septuagint OT has 54 books compared to the English Bibles that have 39 books. The 1611 KJV had these books situated between the Old and New Testaments because they were the intertestamental books that cover the 400 years prior to the birth of Christ (Malachi to Jesus). The word Apocrypha means secret or hidden which these books never were as attested by their presence in plain view in the Septuagint Bible. The Apocrypha was banned from the Bibles by the Bible societies in 1885, since that time they have been disparaged and maligned and mostly forgotten. What most people today do not know about these books is that the original 1611 KJV cross referenced the Apocrypha with the OT and vice versa, the Apocrypha was also referenced to the NT and vice versa. There were hundreds of margin notes on the pages throughout the entire KJV Bible cross referencing these as to where the scriptures depended one on the other. Pretty interesting for a bunch of second rate books not worthy to be readlet alone be in the Bible!
The intertestamental era has been referred to as the quiet time by theologians. Ya it was quiet all right, Alexander had taken over the known world, the Romans began to flex their muscle, the Jews and Hebrews revolted, Parthia was a super power that the Romans could not beat nor subject.
The following are interesting tidbits concerning the Apocrypha, Jesus, the NT etc.
When the Sadducees came to Jesus to challenge him on the issue of the Resurrection (Matthew 22:23-33), they referred to seven brothers among them who, each in turn, married the same woman, dying before having children. This story is a speculative question based on the situation of Sarah in the Book of Tobit.

Hebrews 11:35 refers to events that can only be traced to 2 Maccabees 7
Hebrews 11:35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection

Where did The Apostle Paul get the idea of putting on the full armor of God?

Wisdom of Solomon Ch. 5
[17] He shall take to him his jealousy for complete armour, and make the creature his weapon for the revenge of his enemies.
[18] He shall put on righteousness as a breastplate, and true judgment instead of an helmet.
[19] He shall take holiness for an invincible shield.
[20] His severe wrath shall he sharpen for a sword, and the world shall fight with him against the unwise.

Ephesians 6
[13] Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
[14] Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
[15] And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
[16] Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
[17] And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God

Did you know the book of Wisdom in the KJV Apocrypha has one of the best references and prophecies to the coming of Christ in the entire Old Testament?



(Wis 2:12) Therefore let us lie in wait for the righteous; because he is not for our turn, and he is clean contrary to our doings: he upbraideth us with our offending the law, and objecteth to our infamy the transgressings of our education.

(Wis 2:13) He professeth to have the knowledge of God: and he calleth himself the child of the Lord.

(Wis 2:14) He was made to reprove our thoughts.

(Wis 2:15) He is grievous unto us even to behold: for his life is not like other men's, his ways are of another fashion.

(Wis 2:16) We are esteemed of him as counterfeits: he abstaineth from our ways as from filthiness: he pronounceth the end of the just to be blessed, and maketh his boast that God is his father.

(Wis 2:17) Let us see if his words be true: and let us prove what shall happen in the end of him.

(Wis 2:18) For if the just man be the son of God, he will help him, and deliver him from the hand of his enemies.

(Wis 2:19) Let us examine him with despitefulness and torture, that we may know his meekness, and prove his patience.

(Wis 2:20) Let us condemn him with a shameful death: for by his own saying he shall be respected.

(Wis 2:21) Such things they did imagine, and were deceived: for their own wickedness hath blinded them.

KJVChrist debated the Apocrypha, the Apostles borrowed from them in their writings, the Bible included them and now we are told to disregard them as spurious.

[baggywrinkle]

The King James Version was created to support the burning of millions of people from herbalists to people who were just a bit weird. To support the Witchhunts.

Suffer not a witch to live is a sort of added commandment.

Nice Stuff God or perhaps James thought he was God.

You become what you worship. If you honor God's of War you will be warlike. We assume the characteristics of that which we honor. So what are we honoring these days?

Perhaps it was and maybe it wasn't.

My congregation calls the KJV the inspired word of God. As to being war-like, a cornerstone of their faith is non-resistance even onto death. They are one of the original peace Churches, so
your inference of war like behavior made me smile. Nonresistance in opposition to pacifism, which is a political posture. These people would sing on their way into the gas chamber. Indeed,
they have before for over five hundred years and it is documented in the Martyrs Mirror.
http://www.homecomers.org/mirror/head.htm

I personally am suspicious of tampering by King James and his council, so I carry the Geneva Bible to service because it retains the notes of the original translators. Even if they are decidedly
Calvinist in their viewpoint, it is good to have a counterpoint to the Anabaptist perspective for comparison. These notes were revolutionary and highly antagonistic toward the Catholic church,
even labeling the Pope as the antichrist. Who can blame them for being upset after being burned at the stake by Bloody Mary? These notes challenged the divine right of kings to rule and
caused the overthrow and birth of nations. Could that be why King James had the notes stripped from his authorized version?

Don't believe me. Do go and read it for yourself and compare it with the original 1611 KJV
http://www.genevabible.org/Geneva.html
this is a scan of the original 1611 in old English script
http://arcticbeacon.com/books/1611_King_James_Version-Scan.pdf
This version of the 1611 is in modern English and may be read without a headache
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&sqi=2&ved=0CBcQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.porthchapel.com%2F_documents%2Fbible_kjv.pdf&rct=j&q=1612%20kjv%20pdf&ei=7gd7Te_tHYnSsAOPiomRAw&usg=AFQjCNGG6OnOsHzvzFbZNZKcKvfbOAjL1w&cad=rja

[ghostrider]

yep took the red pill, and they loaded the jump program first.

[Krullenjongen]

Let me show you something really simple but important when it comes to translation accuracy vs church doctrine, and the confidence or lack thereof by the faithful.

KJV Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen

Codex Sinaiticus (Greek text from 350 A.D.) (English Translation) Matthew 28:20 teaching them to observe all things whatever I commanded you. And lo, I am with you, all the days, to the conclusion of the age.

Notice how the KJV says "end of the world" while the literal translation is "conclusion of the age"

That's the interesting thing about translations, the greek and hebrew text are not always easy to translate because a greek or hebrew word can have different meanings depending on the context and how it is used.
If i look at the greek text here and lookup the meaning in Mickelson's enhanced Strongs greek en hebrew dictionary i see that "of the world" means:

G165 αἰών aion (ai-own') n.
1. (properly) an age
2. (by extension) perpetuity (also past)
3. (by implication) the world
4. (specially, Jewish) a Messianic period (present or future)
[from an obsolete primary noun apparently meaning "continued duration"]
KJV: age, course, eternal, (for) ever(-more), (n-)ever, (beginning of the , while the) world (began, without end)

This give the translator some freedom to choose a word that best fits.
The translator should take into account how the greek word is used in other places of the Bible and that is also a way for you to find out what the most common meaning is in the same context.


The end of the age is quite different than the end of the world, church doctrines want you to believe the world is going to burn up and it is all over. Hell forever or Heaven forever. The world has been through many ages, we once again are at the end of an age but the church wants you to believe it's doctrines rather than the ones taught by Christ. Christ never taught eternity in Hell, believe it or not it is true. Christ taught of an age of chastisement, correction or even punishment if you like but not eternal punishment or everlasting punishment. Eternal punishment comes only through translation manipulation, the Greek words were "aionios kolasis" which means "age of chastisement" not eternal punishment. To bad the church can not even be trusted to tell the truth.

As far as i understand Christ's teachings there will be an eternal heaven and hell and this world will literally end. don't know the references in the bible now but i can look them up if you want.
I am also interested in the basis of your statement.
can you explain?

[Krullenjongen]

Sorry but this is simply not true.
In fact, there is no record of any discussion of the Biblical Canon at the council of Nicea at all
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea#The_Biblical_Canon

First off, I've read that one. Read the overview of that same page.

Secondly, you're citing Wikipedia as a credible source??

In the overview it says: "Its main accomplishments (of the counsel of nicea) were..........and promulgation of early canon law.
Early canon law is not the same as the biblical canon.
Canon law is a body of laws and regulations and the biblical canon a list of books considered to be authoritative as scripture.
So the overview says nothing about establishing the biblical canon.

And i know that Wikipedia is not always the most credible source but it was right for the purpose.
It's hard to prove or to reference a source that says that there was no discussion.
I can give you a link to the Encyclopedia brittanica and see what was discussed on the counsil of nicea and you can see that the topic of the biblical canon is not mentioned.
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/413817/Council-of-Nicaea

[Lifebringer]

Read KJV, Gideons, K'oran, and (Urantia Book on line) They all say pretty much the same thing about the trials of past generations and emotions that ran high in the more primitive and brutalistic sects of human kind. However, why did the KING (henry did it too) deem himself worthy of leading Englands religion, above the Pope of Rome?
These types of fueding into the religious discussion, leave certain doubts to the motive of the People/humans never thinking for themselves with God's guidance, unless they are in church. Humans have their trials, and through their experiences either learn or fail at the endeavor and a lesson is always learned. These monachial rulers, had other motives and most often did not have the same rules/justice as they gave to their idea of "lower subserviants"
This type of thinking has always rubbed people away from religious fetters, to seek truth from all texts and make a clear decision on GOD's will for individual soul.
When people hide or add their "version" it makes one wonder why, when the original scripts were good enough for the elders. But there must always be a progression of man's maturity to spiritual knowledge of the Creator God through his Son's presence among them. King James was neither ordained a minister, rabbi, or pope, so I sometimes question all the ye's and thee's, as the confuse. The New Testiment of Jesus Christ, Son of God's journey to the Father's kingdom after incarnating into man to know them and teach them to love their neighbor, ALL NEIGHBORS, and not call them gentiles of a lower order. God would never single out his creation in some embarrassing separation of others. Just didn't make sense. So I put them all together and looked to the skies as John Zebedee said on the isle of Patmos while imprisoned, when he gave the Revelation of the end times and 2nd coming.
I'ts not leaning one way or the other, but keeping an open mind that they all lead to the "same" ONE God, through his son Jesus/God.
Led me here, there and everywhere, just as he is.

"June 14, 0026, Jesus Baptism by John, the witnesses of the hosts of heaven present who held him in the circle with John" He spoke with his apostles as he gathered them, realizing they had "priestly fetters" of discrimination and not talking to others in the world, just Jews. Jesus wanted to spread the word that all men, including "gentiles?" were welcome in the Father's kingdom, to teach that separation or holding one's self of higher value than others, was not man's call, but Gods, and he doesn't discriminate based on education/knowledge/ or church/temple affiliation. Also that this love must be practiced to make sure it was given by God. It had to be given through the compassionate heart, which God lives in. This connection of compassion is strong in man/woman as they are a team to create the harmony of life. The Holy spirit binds them in God's love and mercy and will to create.

I found this verse in Urantia/Earth Creation Book refreshing and enlightening.
"The spiritually blind individual who logicly folows scientific dictation, social usage, and religious dogma, stands in rave danger of sacrificing his moral freedom, and losing his Spiritual liberty.
Such a soul is deestined to become an intellectual parrot, a social automaton and a "slave to religious authority."
Until you obtain "Paradise levels' goodness will always be more of a quest, than a possession. More a goal, than attainment, but even as you hunger and thirst for righteousness, you experience increasing satisfation in the partial attainment of goodness.
Will "for God, or against truth or lies, we are the "Will creation in His image."
Have a blessed and guided day.
Thanks for hearing me out.

[Lifebringer]

Now you know what Jesus went through and he was perfect. Take it in stride, and carry your message of unity through true Christian teaching of Christ, and it will all come together.

Peace be unto you. Feel no shame as all things will be revealed and we are the chosen blessed generation to see it all come to unfold. Hang on to your hat's it's gonna get swoopy. Is anyone praying for 04/03-13/2011 E.L.E comet to not harm too many souls on it's passing. We need a shield of protection for those who aren't paying attention.

[Lifebringer]

UrantiaBook.org click the online read. All of his time on Earth among men, were of utmost teaching and understanding of his creation, and what was missing to help them ascend to the Father's kingdom. Those last days are of utmost significance, before he ascended.
Uantia Papers #195 After Pentecost comes to mind on this one.

"the Bible included them and now we are told to disregard them as spurious."

Jesus "did a lot of spainin" once he had risen and made "19" appearances and his last was the Pentecost, where he left a dire message, if those who murdered him, did not "heed," for the future of their children. Seems they need to heed, ask forgiveness, and stop offending and oppressing the people's free will under the "priestly fetters again."

[Icecold]

I urge everyone to read the entire page that is linked in the original post, but please do so at your own risk. No swimming or operating a motor vehicle or any heavy machinery for at least thirty minutes if you can make it all the way to the bottom.

Yes I see what you mean.

I found this passage by an intelligent Christian...obviously... on the correct way to read the bible.....

How To Read The Bible For Better Understanding

The Bible is its own best teacher. The Bible however is not arranged like an encyclopedia. You cannot go to chapter 1 and read everything about God and go to chapter 2 to read everything about Jesus, etc. Remember when reading the Bible the verses and chapter breaks are placed in the scriptures by man. It is better to read by paragraph, these too are man-made but they do conform better to the original language than verses.

Some ground rules need to be set up first:

Pray first before opening God's word. Ask for guidance and to be able to accept what is written and to be able to apply His will to your life.

Never, never read the Bible trying to proof your belief on any subject. It is only human nature to take ideas out of context.

When you are reading and come across something that does not make sense, reread the paragraph or chapter again.

If you still do not understand, write down the problem area and continue onward. You may discover the answers later in your reading.

Do not read large amounts of the Bible in one setting. Take breaks often. Or stay with about 4-6 chapters a day.

Start with the New Testament, people who start with the Old Testament almost never read the Bible all the way through. The New Testament is what is binding on us today not the Old.

We need to follow God's will for us today not what was intended for the Jews.

Forget everything you have ever heard about Jesus, God and the Bible before you start reading the Bible. Don't take what you want it to say with you first.

Best wishes to bible buffs.

[Rozzy]

Let me show you something really simple but important when it comes to translation accuracy vs church doctrine, and the confidence or lack thereof by the faithful.

KJV Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen

Codex Sinaiticus (Greek text from 350 A.D.) (English Translation) Matthew 28:20 teaching them to observe all things whatever I commanded you. And lo, I am with you, all the days, to the conclusion of the age.

Notice how the KJV says "end of the world" while the literal translation is "conclusion of the age"

That's the interesting thing about translations, the greek and hebrew text are not always easy to translate because a greek or hebrew word can have different meanings depending on the context and how it is used.
If i look at the greek text here and lookup the meaning in Mickelson's enhanced Strongs greek en hebrew dictionary i see that "of the world" means:

G165 αἰών aion (ai-own') n.
1. (properly) an age
2. (by extension) perpetuity (also past)
3. (by implication) the world
4. (specially, Jewish) a Messianic period (present or future)
[from an obsolete primary noun apparently meaning "continued duration"]
KJV: age, course, eternal, (for) ever(-more), (n-)ever, (beginning of the , while the) world (began, without end)

This give the translator some freedom to choose a word that best fits.
The translator should take into account how the greek word is used in other places of the Bible and that is also a way for you to find out what the most common meaning is in the same context.


The end of the age is quite different than the end of the world, church doctrines want you to believe the world is going to burn up and it is all over. Hell forever or Heaven forever. The world has been through many ages, we once again are at the end of an age but the church wants you to believe it's doctrines rather than the ones taught by Christ. Christ never taught eternity in Hell, believe it or not it is true. Christ taught of an age of chastisement, correction or even punishment if you like but not eternal punishment or everlasting punishment. Eternal punishment comes only through translation manipulation, the Greek words were "aionios kolasis" which means "age of chastisement" not eternal punishment. To bad the church can not even be trusted to tell the truth.

As far as i understand Christ's teachings there will be an eternal heaven and hell and this world will literally end. don't know the references in the bible now but i can look them up if you want.
I am also interested in the basis of your statement.
can you explain?

Translators have taken liberties with the text and then say it is hard to translate etc. Translators have taken the word "cosmos" and translated it to "world", then they take the word "aionios" and translate it to world", I am sorry but this is shaping doctrine through translation. There is no reason not to translate age and cosmos as they are written. There are even greater problems beyond this, the Bible societies and major church organizations have also produced the study materials available to the student so that these will coincide exactly with the translators. This may sound conspiratorial but the Bible societies do have study materials produced for the public and they have that which the public will never see. I personally was using a Lexicon and Interlinear that belonged to the German Bible society until I began to use it in my arguments, from that point on my access has been denied.
To get the proper meaning of how a word was used one has to go to the texts that were written and are available from the era you are studying. By doing this you bypass the manipulation of the church and their skullduggery shows itself for what it is.

Of course the majority of christians believe in eternal heaven and hell because that is what they have been taught. Go back and study what the early christians and the church really believed, before Christ and after Christ the Hebrew and early Christians never believed in eternal torment or eternal life, they believed they would be judged worthy of severe chastisement/punishment for a time and then live again. 2 Maccabees is a good example of this when Judas prayed for his dead soldiers, the church of England itself had prayers for the dead, that was normal in Christendom.

If you want a real eye opener put the doctrines you are now taught up against what you find in the OT from places like Isaiah and Ezekiel.
Isaiah 65: 17-20 Ezekiel 16:53-55

(Isa 65:17) For there shall be a new heaven and a new earth: and they shall not at all remember the former, neither shall they at all come into their mind.

(Isa 65:18) But they shall find in her joy and exultation; for, behold, I make Jerusalem a rejoicing, and my people a joy.

(Isa 65:19) And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and will be glad in my people: and there shall no more be heard in her the voice of weeping, or the voice of crying.

(Isa 65:20) Neither shall there be there any more a child that dies untimely, or an old man who shall not complete his time: for the youth shall be a hundred years old, and the sinner who dies at a hundred years shall also be accursed:

(2Pe 3:7) But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

(2Pe 3:10) But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

(2Pe 3:11) Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

(2Pe 3:12) Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

(2Pe 3:13) Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Notice the differences, Isaiah teaches the earth will be transformed and sinners will live to be a hundred, 2 Peter teaches the earth will pass away and be totally burned up and a new earth where only the righteous dwells.

Isaiah is talking about births, young men, old men, the sinner, 2 Peter spells it out very differently, yes we have a problem here.

Now here is a real eye opener

(Eze 16:53) And I will turn their captivity, even the captivity of Sodom and her daughters; and I will turn the captivity of Samaria and her daughters; and I will turn thy captivity in the midst of them:

(Eze 16:54) that thou mayest bear thy punishment, and be dishonoured for all that thou hast done in provoking me to anger.

(Eze 16:55) And thy sister Sodom and her daughters shall be restored as they were at the beginning, and thou and thy daughters shall be restored as ye were at the beginning.

Have you ever been taught Sodom would be restored just as they were from the beginning? Ya me neither.
Now look at what Jude teaches

(Jud 1:7) Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.


Look at the difference between Jude and Ezekiel, Ezekiel says Sodom is restored and Jude says Sodom gets eternal suffering and eternal fire.

The switching of the Septuagint out for the Babylonian text was genius for the manipulation of doctrine.
Let me show you a simple little example of just how this works.

Septuagint Nahum 1:5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills are shaken, and the earth recoils at his presence, even the world, and all that dwell in it.

KJV Nahum 1:5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.

Notice how that in the KJV the earth melts and is burned up, and all that is within, now look at the Septuagint, no mention of that whatsoever.

[Krullenjongen]

Let me show you something really simple but important when it comes to translation accuracy vs church doctrine, and the confidence or lack thereof by the faithful.

KJV Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen

Codex Sinaiticus (Greek text from 350 A.D.) (English Translation) Matthew 28:20 teaching them to observe all things whatever I commanded you. And lo, I am with you, all the days, to the conclusion of the age.

Notice how the KJV says "end of the world" while the literal translation is "conclusion of the age"

That's the interesting thing about translations, the greek and hebrew text are not always easy to translate because a greek or hebrew word can have different meanings depending on the context and how it is used.
If i look at the greek text here and lookup the meaning in Mickelson's enhanced Strongs greek en hebrew dictionary i see that "of the world" means:

G165 αἰών aion (ai-own') n.
1. (properly) an age
2. (by extension) perpetuity (also past)
3. (by implication) the world
4. (specially, Jewish) a Messianic period (present or future)
[from an obsolete primary noun apparently meaning "continued duration"]
KJV: age, course, eternal, (for) ever(-more), (n-)ever, (beginning of the , while the) world (began, without end)

This give the translator some freedom to choose a word that best fits.
The translator should take into account how the greek word is used in other places of the Bible and that is also a way for you to find out what the most common meaning is in the same context.


The end of the age is quite different than the end of the world, church doctrines want you to believe the world is going to burn up and it is all over. Hell forever or Heaven forever. The world has been through many ages, we once again are at the end of an age but the church wants you to believe it's doctrines rather than the ones taught by Christ. Christ never taught eternity in Hell, believe it or not it is true. Christ taught of an age of chastisement, correction or even punishment if you like but not eternal punishment or everlasting punishment. Eternal punishment comes only through translation manipulation, the Greek words were "aionios kolasis" which means "age of chastisement" not eternal punishment. To bad the church can not even be trusted to tell the truth.

As far as i understand Christ's teachings there will be an eternal heaven and hell and this world will literally end. don't know the references in the bible now but i can look them up if you want.
I am also interested in the basis of your statement.
can you explain?

Translators have taken liberties with the text and then say it is hard to translate etc. Translators have taken the word "cosmos" and translated it to "world", then they take the word "aionios" and translate it to world", I am sorry but this is shaping doctrine through translation. There is no reason not to translate age and cosmos as they are written. There are even greater problems beyond this, the Bible societies and major church organizations have also produced the study materials available to the student so that these will coincide exactly with the translators. This may sound conspiratorial but the Bible societies do have study materials produced for the public and they have that which the public will never see. I personally was using a Lexicon and Interlinear that belonged to the German Bible society until I began to use it in my arguments, from that point on my access has been denied.
To get the proper meaning of how a word was used one has to go to the texts that were written and are available from the era you are studying. By doing this you bypass the manipulation of the church and their skullduggery shows itself for what it is.

Of course the majority of christians believe in eternal heaven and hell because that is what they have been taught. Go back and study what the early christians and the church really believed, before Christ and after Christ the Hebrew and early Christians never believed in eternal torment or eternal life, they believed they would be judged worthy of severe chastisement/punishment for a time and then live again. 2 Maccabees is a good example of this when Judas prayed for his dead soldiers, the church of England itself had prayers for the dead, that was normal in Christendom.

If you want a real eye opener put the doctrines you are now taught up against what you find in the OT from places like Isaiah and Ezekiel.
Isaiah 65: 17-20 Ezekiel 16:53-55

(Isa 65:17) For there shall be a new heaven and a new earth: and they shall not at all remember the former, neither shall they at all come into their mind.

(Isa 65:18) But they shall find in her joy and exultation; for, behold, I make Jerusalem a rejoicing, and my people a joy.

(Isa 65:19) And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and will be glad in my people: and there shall no more be heard in her the voice of weeping, or the voice of crying.

(Isa 65:20) Neither shall there be there any more a child that dies untimely, or an old man who shall not complete his time: for the youth shall be a hundred years old, and the sinner who dies at a hundred years shall also be accursed:

(2Pe 3:7) But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

(2Pe 3:10) But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

(2Pe 3:11) Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

(2Pe 3:12) Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

(2Pe 3:13) Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Notice the differences, Isaiah teaches the earth will be transformed and sinners will live to be a hundred, 2 Peter teaches the earth will pass away and be totally burned up and a new earth where only the righteous dwells.

Isaiah is talking about births, young men, old men, the sinner, 2 Peter spells it out very differently, yes we have a problem here.

Now here is a real eye opener

(Eze 16:53) And I will turn their captivity, even the captivity of Sodom and her daughters; and I will turn the captivity of Samaria and her daughters; and I will turn thy captivity in the midst of them:

(Eze 16:54) that thou mayest bear thy punishment, and be dishonoured for all that thou hast done in provoking me to anger.

(Eze 16:55) And thy sister Sodom and her daughters shall be restored as they were at the beginning, and thou and thy daughters shall be restored as ye were at the beginning.

Have you ever been taught Sodom would be restored just as they were from the beginning? Ya me neither.
Now look at what Jude teaches

(Jud 1:7) Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.


Look at the difference between Jude and Ezekiel, Ezekiel says Sodom is restored and Jude says Sodom gets eternal suffering and eternal fire.

The switching of the Septuagint out for the Babylonian text was genius for the manipulation of doctrine.
Let me show you a simple little example of just how this works.

Septuagint Nahum 1:5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills are shaken, and the earth recoils at his presence, even the world, and all that dwell in it.

KJV Nahum 1:5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.

Notice how that in the KJV the earth melts and is burned up, and all that is within, now look at the Septuagint, no mention of that whatsoever.

Thanks Rozzy!
An interesting point you make there.
I personally do not believe the bible contradicts itself. I have done some research into some other matters that seemed contradictions but at the end there was a good explanation for it.
But this is a lot of text and i have to look into this some more before a can give an informed reply.

[RedeZra]

It takes a leap of faith to trust the Bible as true and it takes a leap of denial to dismiss it as fantasy

looking past what is lost in translation and incantation the gist of the story is there for all to see


Archaeology could back up some of the accounts but archaeology is not free and science is under state censorship


It's certain that truth is a victim of the PTB - a tight knit group of people at the top of the pyramid of power in a perpetual state of war also against it's own population

the PTB is not only suppressing facts and artifacts but also planting fantasies and fakes in the hope that we will bite the bait and base our believes on false premises and empty promises

One would think that the identity of the ruling Elite ought to provide some answers why the world is as it is

And indeed it does - it makes perfect sense - if the Bible is faithful and true

[Krullenjongen]

Let me show you something really simple but important when it comes to translation accuracy vs church doctrine, and the confidence or lack thereof by the faithful.

KJV Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen

Codex Sinaiticus (Greek text from 350 A.D.) (English Translation) Matthew 28:20 teaching them to observe all things whatever I commanded you. And lo, I am with you, all the days, to the conclusion of the age.

Notice how the KJV says "end of the world" while the literal translation is "conclusion of the age"

That's the interesting thing about translations, the greek and hebrew text are not always easy to translate because a greek or hebrew word can have different meanings depending on the context and how it is used.
If i look at the greek text here and lookup the meaning in Mickelson's enhanced Strongs greek en hebrew dictionary i see that "of the world" means:

G165 αἰών aion (ai-own') n.
1. (properly) an age
2. (by extension) perpetuity (also past)
3. (by implication) the world
4. (specially, Jewish) a Messianic period (present or future)
[from an obsolete primary noun apparently meaning "continued duration"]
KJV: age, course, eternal, (for) ever(-more), (n-)ever, (beginning of the , while the) world (began, without end)

This give the translator some freedom to choose a word that best fits.
The translator should take into account how the greek word is used in other places of the Bible and that is also a way for you to find out what the most common meaning is in the same context.


The end of the age is quite different than the end of the world, church doctrines want you to believe the world is going to burn up and it is all over. Hell forever or Heaven forever. The world has been through many ages, we once again are at the end of an age but the church wants you to believe it's doctrines rather than the ones taught by Christ. Christ never taught eternity in Hell, believe it or not it is true. Christ taught of an age of chastisement, correction or even punishment if you like but not eternal punishment or everlasting punishment. Eternal punishment comes only through translation manipulation, the Greek words were "aionios kolasis" which means "age of chastisement" not eternal punishment. To bad the church can not even be trusted to tell the truth.

As far as i understand Christ's teachings there will be an eternal heaven and hell and this world will literally end. don't know the references in the bible now but i can look them up if you want.
I am also interested in the basis of your statement.
can you explain?

Notice the differences, Isaiah teaches the earth will be transformed and sinners will live to be a hundred, 2 Peter teaches the earth will pass away and be totally burned up and a new earth where only the righteous dwells.

Isaiah is talking about births, young men, old men, the sinner, 2 Peter spells it out very differently, yes we have a problem here.

I don't see Isaiah saying the earth would be transformed?
He says that there will be a new heaven and new earth just like Peter said so i don't see the problem.
You also say that Peter teaches that there will be a new earth where only the rightious dwell but that is not what is says. Het says there will be a new earth where rightiousness dwells and that is not the same.

Beside these points i think they are also talking about different times.
I think Isaiah is talking about the reign of Christ for a thousand years here on the earth and Peter is talking about the period after that. So it looks like the earth will be transformed when Jesus comes to reign over this earth for a thousand years in this time people will be born en die and live very long but after that period then the earth and heaven will be destroyed and all people will be judged. Then a new heaven and earth will be created and there will be no more sickness, sadness, sin and death. and those who remain will live forever.



Have you ever been taught Sodom would be restored just as they were from the beginning? Ya me neither.
Now look at what Jude teaches

(Jud 1:7) Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.


Look at the difference between Jude and Ezekiel, Ezekiel says Sodom is restored and Jude says Sodom gets eternal suffering and eternal fire.

In Ezekiel 16, the prophet here shows Jerusalem her abominations, by comparing her with those places that had gone before her (sodom, samaria), and showing that she was worse than any of them, and therefore should, like them, be utterly and irreparably ruined.

Ezech 16:53,55. "When I shall bring again the captivity of Sodom and Samaria, and when they shall return to their former estate, then I will bring again the captivity of thy captives in the midst of them, and as it were for their sakes, and under their shadow and protection, because they are more righteous than thou, and then thou shalt return to thy former estate.

I see this text as a threatening. The captivity of the wicked Jews, and their ruin, their following exile , shall be as irrevocable as that of Sodom and Samaria. Sodom and Samaria were never brought back, nor ever returned to their former estate, and therefore let not Jerusalem expect it.

If this interpretation is correct than there is no problem with these two teachings of Ezekiel and Jude.
But as many times biblical scolars do not always interpret things the same way and that is why we have different views on certain matter.
The important thing to me is that no one disagrees on the real matters that count.

[Bollinger]

How I Know The King James Bible is the Word of God

http://www.av1611.org/kjv/knowkjv.html

This web site has helped me a lot in knowing
what is really the true word of God.

I can now sleep easy knowing that i have
chosen my bible well......

God promised to keep his word pure and unedited
and this web site proved to me that the KJV (Not
to be mistaken with the New KJV), is the true
word of God.

I could be wrong here and i'll have to read the
web site again but i think it said that the easiest
way to find out if the bible that you currently are
using is Gods word, is to look and see if the bible
is copyrighted.

The KJV is not copyrighted like all the rest, there-fore
it is freely available as a public domain to be reprinted
and circulated.

1. If any book contained the word of God, why would it be exclusive to tiny old Earth with its tiny history, negligible significance in both the galaxy as well as the universe.

2. If by God you mean a loving father, the sorry state of the world begs to differ.

3. God and free will cannot coexist. You have to believe in one or the other, not both. Why? By the classic definition, God is perfect in every way and knows everything. That implies he cannot create imperfection. If He creates imperfection knowingly, He Himself cannot be perfect. That’s a contradiction.

4. If you believe in a God that is a loving father but not perfect, it means he is in the same boat as we are and engaged in looking for a god that is higher or more perfect than he.

5. If you believe in something called "Infinite Consciousness" and is deemed to be different from God, I would ask you to define it or list its attributes. If you can't, we can't talk about it.

6. If you believe in anything else that contradicts reality, make sure you can prove it's veracity. Do not fall into the trap of saying "it is beyond us" because that is silly and causes the discussion to end.

The only reason there is, was and ever will be for mentioning or thinking about such an idea as God or any religion that encapsulates a particular set of beliefs, stem from the desire to survive. That desire, while we are alive, is so strong that we would wish to carry it forward to when we die. It is entirely understandable that this should be the case. The problem is that the desire to believe can sometimes be so strong that in the mind of the beholder it morphs into what is termed as "revealed truth". Once that happens, you begin to feel arrogant and blessed and consider yourself one of the “chosen”. Inwardly, you have no choice but to spread the "good news" not only to convince and "save" others but more importantly to reinforce your own beliefs. It’s a self-perpetuating deception.

While it may have some therapeutic benefits and it may even instil a variety of ethical benefits, the overall result of religion leaves the human race in a continuing state of contradiction and conflict.

If there is anything like a God or some Infinite Being that lives in higher planes, it is unlikely that it would wish to make itself known to us or to anyone who is so unprepared and ill equipped to even begin to comprehend what it is or it means. The best course of action is to assume nothing of that kind exists.

[Rozzy]

An interesting point you make there.
I personally do not believe the bible contradicts itself. I have done some research into some other matters that seemed contradictions but at the end there was a good explanation for it.
But this is a lot of text and i have to look into this some more before a can give an informed reply.

The reason for the contradiction is actually quite simple and well known to scholars and students of the Bible, 2 Peter and Jude are both considered to be pseudepigrapha which is exactly what they are in my view as well.
Consider this for a moment, 2 Peter and Jude both quote directly from the book of 1Enoch, 1Enoch back in the day of the early church was considered an absolute heresy and was banned and burned out of existance. Being completely destroyed because of its content, how in the world did it then get quoted by both Peter and Jude and included in their epistles?
The motives for including 2 Peter and Jude served a purpose, that purpose was to help insert doctrines never before considered by the faithful, eternal punishment, end of the world, the earth burning up etc.
Pre christian Hebrew people and early christian believers never believed in eternal punishment, they in fact believed people would be judged, suffer the consequences and live again.

[Providence]

Humanalien,
You may be at a stage in your life where this is something that you think you need. To feel secure with the structure that the bible provides. But please don't stop now, if you're searching for the truth, it's out there. And if you are willing to open your mind, to think outside of the box when it comes to the religious structures that have been put in place on this earth, you will find that the truth, just don't stop, keep questioning and seeking.
I will share this with you. I have a very structured and religious background, from sinner to born again Christian, and it was incredibly hard for me to question my beliefs and to question the bible what I was told was "God's Holy Word". It took some very serious introspection, the fortitude to step outside of my comfort zone, and to stick it out even when it would have been easier just to go back to 'the norm'. But I can assure you that the journey was well worth it!
Peace
B-)

[Rozzy]

Let me show you something really simple but important when it comes to translation accuracy vs church doctrine, and the confidence or lack thereof by the faithful.

KJV Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen

Codex Sinaiticus (Greek text from 350 A.D.) (English Translation) Matthew 28:20 teaching them to observe all things whatever I commanded you. And lo, I am with you, all the days, to the conclusion of the age.

Notice how the KJV says "end of the world" while the literal translation is "conclusion of the age"

That's the interesting thing about translations, the greek and hebrew text are not always easy to translate because a greek or hebrew word can have different meanings depending on the context and how it is used.
If i look at the greek text here and lookup the meaning in Mickelson's enhanced Strongs greek en hebrew dictionary i see that "of the world" means:

G165 αἰών aion (ai-own') n.
1. (properly) an age
2. (by extension) perpetuity (also past)
3. (by implication) the world
4. (specially, Jewish) a Messianic period (present or future)
[from an obsolete primary noun apparently meaning "continued duration"]
KJV: age, course, eternal, (for) ever(-more), (n-)ever, (beginning of the , while the) world (began, without end)

This give the translator some freedom to choose a word that best fits.
The translator should take into account how the greek word is used in other places of the Bible and that is also a way for you to find out what the most common meaning is in the same context.


The end of the age is quite different than the end of the world, church doctrines want you to believe the world is going to burn up and it is all over. Hell forever or Heaven forever. The world has been through many ages, we once again are at the end of an age but the church wants you to believe it's doctrines rather than the ones taught by Christ. Christ never taught eternity in Hell, believe it or not it is true. Christ taught of an age of chastisement, correction or even punishment if you like but not eternal punishment or everlasting punishment. Eternal punishment comes only through translation manipulation, the Greek words were "aionios kolasis" which means "age of chastisement" not eternal punishment. To bad the church can not even be trusted to tell the truth.

As far as i understand Christ's teachings there will be an eternal heaven and hell and this world will literally end. don't know the references in the bible now but i can look them up if you want.
I am also interested in the basis of your statement.
can you explain?

Notice the differences, Isaiah teaches the earth will be transformed and sinners will live to be a hundred, 2 Peter teaches the earth will pass away and be totally burned up and a new earth where only the righteous dwells.

Isaiah is talking about births, young men, old men, the sinner, 2 Peter spells it out very differently, yes we have a problem here.

I don't see Isaiah saying the earth would be transformed?
He says that there will be a new heaven and new earth just like Peter said so i don't see the problem.
You also say that Peter teaches that there will be a new earth where only the rightious dwell but that is not what is says. Het says there will be a new earth where rightiousness dwells and that is not the same.

Beside these points i think they are also talking about different times.
I think Isaiah is talking about the reign of Christ for a thousand years here on the earth and Peter is talking about the period after that. So it looks like the earth will be transformed when Jesus comes to reign over this earth for a thousand years in this time people will be born en die and live very long but after that period then the earth and heaven will be destroyed and all people will be judged. Then a new heaven and earth will be created and there will be no more sickness, sadness, sin and death. and those who remain will live forever.



Have you ever been taught Sodom would be restored just as they were from the beginning? Ya me neither.
Now look at what Jude teaches

(Jud 1:7) Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.


Look at the difference between Jude and Ezekiel, Ezekiel says Sodom is restored and Jude says Sodom gets eternal suffering and eternal fire.

In Ezekiel 16, the prophet here shows Jerusalem her abominations, by comparing her with those places that had gone before her (sodom, samaria), and showing that she was worse than any of them, and therefore should, like them, be utterly and irreparably ruined.

Ezech 16:53,55. "When I shall bring again the captivity of Sodom and Samaria, and when they shall return to their former estate, then I will bring again the captivity of thy captives in the midst of them, and as it were for their sakes, and under their shadow and protection, because they are more righteous than thou, and then thou shalt return to thy former estate.

I see this text as a threatening. The captivity of the wicked Jews, and their ruin, their following exile , shall be as irrevocable as that of Sodom and Samaria. Sodom and Samaria were never brought back, nor ever returned to their former estate, and therefore let not Jerusalem expect it.

If this interpretation is correct than there is no problem with these two teachings of Ezekiel and Jude.
But as many times biblical scolars do not always interpret things the same way and that is why we have different views on certain matter.
The important thing to me is that no one disagrees on the real matters that count.

The old fail safe of fall back on the text is hard to translate is bafflegab given to us by the same old same old. Christ at no point ever taught eternal Hell or eternal Heaven, that comes about purely from translation methods. You say you do not see Isaiah saying the earth will be transformed, show me where he is saying it will be destroyed, barring total destruction then the only other possibility is the earth and people living on the same earth in another time, another age, which means it is transformed from the now to the then. Isaiah does say new heaven and new earth, complete with sinners and all, no where does he say the earth is going to burn up and be destroyed. 2 Peter says that everything will be dissolved which can not be corroborated by any OT reference, Isaiah or other OT source.

(2Pe 3:12) Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

(2Pe 3:13) Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness

2 Peter is teaching the earth and the heavens burned up, completely dissolved, the new one replacing the old where righteousness dwells, the content is what it is, there is no mention of sinners, babies and old men. The doctrines christians believe today is that of eternal hell for sinners and eternal heaven for believers which coincides with these NT verses and others. How can these be reconciled with the fact that the new heaven and earth of isaiah has sinners on it? Not only that but how is Ezekiel's Sodom with it's daughters going to be returned as it was at the first?
The whole problem lies with the insertion of books that teach new doctrines, doctrines found no where else in scripture. You say they are talking about different times, ok, when has this new earth come or when has Sodom returned? They have not yet so these are still future events that can not be applied to any history thus far. Your course of events has a new earth for a thousand years, then another new earth after that, that is conjecture that is formed to endorse doctrines that need the help of supposition which holds water about as good as a sieve.
What you call irrevocable is exactly at the heart of the problem, the judgment against Sodom will be revoked, and those folks will be returned according to Ezekiel. The book of 2 maccabees (which is included in the Septuagint OT) is a witness to this doctrine of living again, which is one very good reason the Bible societies banned 2 Maccabees from the Bible in 1885.

2 Maccabees 12
[41] All men therefore praising the Lord, the righteous Judge, who had opened the things that were hid,
[42] Betook themselves unto prayer, and besought him that the sin committed might wholly be put out of remembrance. Besides, that noble Judas exhorted the people to keep themselves from sin, forsomuch as they saw before their eyes the things that came to pass for the sins of those that were slain.
[43] And when he had made a gathering throughout the company to the sum of two thousand drachms of silver, he sent it to Jerusalem to offer a sin offering, doing therein very well and honestly, in that he was mindful of the resurrection:
[44] For if he had not hoped that they that were slain should have risen again, it had been superfluous and vain to pray for the dead.
[45] And also in that he perceived that there was great favour laid up for those that died godly, it was an holy and good thought. Whereupon he made a reconciliation for the dead, that they might be delivered from sin

If you want a real eye opener as to how words like aionios and others were really used go to another non scripture text of the same era you are looking at, that will remove the religious slant applied to it by those who also supply the very study tools that you have to confirm the text they themselves have translated. They have been getting away with this for way to long, it is like saying "if you do not believe me then ask me" a stealthy conn they have been pulling for centuries.
Example: Josephus uses the word "aionios to describe a three year prison sentence. Bible translators have used aionios to mean "eternal" The length of an age depends on the adjective used with it, so how does "age" (aionios) become eternal in the Bible? And then how does "aionios also become "world" in the Bible?
Aion, Aeon, Eon, mean only one thing "age"
I suggest a couple of resources;

An Apology For The Septuagint:
In Which Its Claims To Biblical And Canonical Authority Are Briefly Stated And Vindicated
1850
By Edward William Grinfield

Aion-Aionios:
The Greek Word Translated Everlasting, Eternal In The Holy Bible, Shown To Denote Limited Duration
John Wesley Hanson
1878

Those two resources were written at a time when theologians were pushing hard to make their opinions and doctrines beyond question and about what people indeed now believe. Nevertheless the testimony of men like Grinfield and Wesley survive even unto today.

[ghostrider]

I want to share insight with you but God is stopping me. I've written five or six times and erased it, ancient sumerian text/dead sea scrolls released to the world is controlled by the vatican. If God's word is true you don't need the pope, or a priest. anyone anytime can talk to the great spirit. I use extreme caution here, I mean no disrespect or such, I agree the KJV is the only one I trust. embrace spiritual things but R U N from religion... the only ones jesus had problems with was religious people.

[DeDukshyn]

... the only ones jesus had problems with was religious people.

And money changers.

[East Sun]

The kjv translated from the Greek interpretation of the Hebrew writings are first of all ridiculed by the believers in the OT. Their writings (OT) are word for word original, so what was written by others in interpretation are often not accurate. The kjv is so out dated in it's terminology that conditioned masses think of the words in a completely off center way that is not conducive to reality. Just like a method of brainwashing.

Write in today's language to make every word plain.

Just imagine a non english speaking person trying to understand the kjv of the Bible. Ridicules.

The kjv should be scrapped in my opinion.
How long are the masses going to stay asleep?
Logic is needed.

[DeDukshyn]

IMO Any written word has had to have been an interpretation or representation. The Truth cannot be expressed in words, so everything for it is a metaphor - just as even our words are metaphors for concepts, and our letters symbols for ease of construct of words. On top of that not everyone's interpretations along the way have been pure. In light of that, receiving Christ from within is superior. To do this just try to experience your life as him. Practice is needed, but Jesus said you can, can't doubt Christ.

When I was a child (maybe 11?) I remember while visiting some friends of my parents who had something like a 1200 year old bible. They let me go through it a bit, as I was clearly interested, and I recall there being many more books in it than my current bible at the time; It was fascinating.

The best way to get the most from any works is to not read it with preconceived interpretations. What it means to you at that moment is the message that is meant for you in that moment, life changes constantly - is fluid. I think this the proper way to interpret spiritual or religious writings because it naturally brings out the Christ in you to make the interpretation - rather than relying on another human. This is just my two cents, take it if it has worth ;)

And ya, out of all I like the KJV the best as well ;)

[Lord Sidious]

IMO Any written word has had to have been an interpretation or representation. The Truth cannot be expressed in words, so everything for it is a metaphor - just as even our words are metaphors for concepts, and our letters symbols for ease of construct of words. On top of that not everyone's interpretations along the way have been pure.

That is exactly what I was trying to portray.

[Krullenjongen]

IMO Any written word has had to have been an interpretation or representation. The Truth cannot be expressed in words, so everything for it is a metaphor - just as even our words are metaphors for concepts, and our letters symbols for ease of construct of words. On top of that not everyone's interpretations along the way have been pure.

That is exactly what I was trying to portray.

This is really a discussion killer.
If truth cannot be expressed in words why have a discussion at all?

Also if translation kills the true meaning of the original words (like some of you say it does) than why join an international forum where a lot of people like me need to translate their words to a different language, how can you trust that what you get from my words is what i really mean?

[Lord Sidious]

IMO Any written word has had to have been an interpretation or representation. The Truth cannot be expressed in words, so everything for it is a metaphor - just as even our words are metaphors for concepts, and our letters symbols for ease of construct of words. On top of that not everyone's interpretations along the way have been pure.

That is exactly what I was trying to portray.

This is really a discussion killer.
If truth cannot be expressed in words why have a discussion at all?

Also if translation kills the true meaning of the original words (like some of you say it does) than why join an international forum where a lot of people like me need to translate their words to a different language, how can you trust that what you get from my words is what i really mean?

As I said before, the scriptures were written in aramaic, ancient hebrew and ancient greek.
You aren't reading them, you are reading a translation.
And when you read that, you are reading someone elses take on the original.
That is one area the muslims have it up on the christians, their qu'ran has the arabic next to the translation so it can be checked.
And I would say that I speak, read and write english very well, yet what I mean is not always obvious, that is the nature of text.

[shadowstalker]

My mom was a catholic when she was a kid, and unless things have changed, she had told me that the priests and the sheep(flock) have two different versions, one the flock reads and one the priest read to them.

As for the King James version of the bible I myself have many, I have several through the past century and is seem like every couple decades they change it. So the King James version as been changing it's tune for a while now. I actually wrote a short book about these changes a while ago.

[DeDukshyn]

IMO Any written word has had to have been an interpretation or representation. The Truth cannot be expressed in words, so everything for it is a metaphor - just as even our words are metaphors for concepts, and our letters symbols for ease of construct of words. On top of that not everyone's interpretations along the way have been pure.

That is exactly what I was trying to portray.

This is really a discussion killer.
If truth cannot be expressed in words why have a discussion at all?

Also if translation kills the true meaning of the original words (like some of you say it does) than why join an international forum where a lot of people like me need to translate their words to a different language, how can you trust that what you get from my words is what i really mean?

I'm not implying that metaphors are not useful - in fact the opposite. I think you kind of responded to that out of context -you should go back and read my entire post. And I personally don't believe anything outright that I read or what people say, but I do consider everything. And just because pure truth cannot be relayed in words does not mean discussion isn't useful and enjoyable - one does not mean the other - they aren't really related, IMO.

Update: Small edit - a few words removed
Update: Added the words back - they were useful afterall.