Why are we born where we are born?

[David Hughes]

This is a question that has always fascinated me and i'd love to hear your thoughts.

Why was i born into a middle class family in a part of the world where i wanted for nothing, while many many millions of others are born into dire poverty without much opportunity to ever really improve their lot?

Why was I born healthy while others are born with horrific birth defects etc?

Is it just the way it is? The luck of the draw? Blind random chance?

Or is it because of the karma we have accumulated in past lives? Do we reap what we sow? What goes around comes around? Cause and effect?

Thanks for reading.

[aroundthetable]

An intelligent question with unlimited philosophical debate. From Vedic perspective, it's karma. This however does not mean we shouldn't neglect trying to improve the lot of those less fortunate. How to do that? Well that is another point of perspective and philosophy. God speed to you and your intelligence :)

[Anchor]

You are a fragment of the creator experiencing itself. You have freewill at the level of your whole individuality, which includes aspects of yourself you cannot remember yet[1].

Your whole-self, meaning inclusive of that which you have forgotten of yourself, had goals.

In order to find a way to best achieve them, it incarnated into third density expression behind a veil of forgetfulness, which is an important factor in the lessons chosen.

The reason why you are as you are, is because that is the way you wanted it to be.

Easy innit :P

Disclaimer - this may not be correct!

John..

[1] Self evident as you would not ask the question otherwise!

[David Hughes]

The reason why you are as you are, is because that is the way you wanted it to be.

But doesn't that suggest that people with diseases such as cerebral palsy are who they are because that's the way they wanted it? How does that work?

[aroundthetable]

I offer this for your consideration

UTePR_8jluw

[OmeyocaN777]

Hi tyler durden,
Well, i believe the purpose of incarnations is to collect data/info for universal mind/Creator and to bring Light in these "Dark" corners of Cosmos.
More deep in "Abyss" you get, more info you get/expand.
Our Lives depends from our capacity to "absorb" negative energies and transform them into Light.
The Universe is "breathing"(expands/reuniting).

[aroundthetable]

and not wishing to hog your time, i offer this also :)

UYqvmkk2I-k

[Billy]

My experiences with the Naadi Shastra in India, Which are 2000yr old manuscripts written in ancient Tamil preserved on palm leaves, they are an account of ALL souls going back to our original twelve tribes,
During my experience and full reading i was told that we all arrange our births before we come to earth, Our time of Birth, Our place of birth, our parents, Daughters, Sons, partners and friends that we meet during our souls journey are all pre arranged by sacred contracts between soul mates we have spent " Many " lifetimes with, I share some of my experiences in this second Radio Interview broadcast in Jan this year.

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/belovenow/2011/02/01/be-love-now-living-in-the-now

[king anthony]

this is a question that has always fascinated me and id love to hear your thoughts..... why was i born... i born perfectly healthy while others are born with horrific birth defects... is it just the way it is?

...i find this very difficult to accept but i certainly cant rule it out.....it just doesnt seem fair... rules in this life appear to be the same for everyone, but not everyone gets the same fair crack of the whip......why is this?

cheers y'all


To understand this is not to be deceived with thoughts based on human arrogance, which has need to complicate and to give more meaning then is - all for comfort. Do not listen to my words or words of another, but listen to your own, as you journey as far back into the past as you can - to learn what the ancients knew. There are three types of state - those in dream, those not in dream, and those dreaming they are not in dream. Remember, 'it is what it is'.

[grapevine]

To add another branch to Tyler's question, it has recently been in the news that IVF can now come from 3 donors so that mitochondrial diseases can be wiped out before birth. Although some would say this smacks of Frankenstein and we shouldn't be allowed to interfere with nature, etc. isn't this really a good thing and something we should be promoting for all children born with health defects?

[OmeyocaN777]

To add another branch to Tyler's question, it has recently been in the news that IVF can now come from 3 donors so that mitochondrial diseases can be wiped out before birth. Although some would say this smacks of Frankenstein and we shouldn't be allowed to interfere with nature, etc. isn't this really a good thing and something we should be promoting for all children born with health defects?

Any new Knowledge is acquired, there are two ways to use them, for good and bad(healing or destroying).
So the problem is not the Knowledge but our "level" of spirit/understanding.

[Shakespeare's Foot.]

Personally, i think that we're are born into our own particular surroundings because these are the surroundings that we need to be in to learn the particular lessons that we're here to learn. Somebody born into power (in a previous life) may be born into power again, but this time the circumstances are different so that they can learn the things that they didn't last time. Even if they abused power previously, it doesn't mean that they can only learn the lessons by being in a 'new' life where they're now subjected to the abuse of power. Perhaps another way to learn, or to show knowledge, is to experience something similar once more. Only this time to be all that they can be.

I don't feel/think/suppose that it works as simply that 'yeah, you did alright last time so we're giving you a speedboat and a jet this time' or 'no, you didn't so this time you're getting a bad limp'. The lessons to be learnt have a myriad ways of being taught and experienced.

Though, yeah, i'm a healthy person in a western society saying this so that affords me a certain luxury. But have i always realized and treated these luxuries as i should? No. Maybe that's what i'm here to learn. And possibly again if i don't.

Great question though. Thanks.

[honeybee]

The reason why you are as you are, is because that is the way you wanted it to be.

but doesnt that suggest that someone with cerebal palsy, leukemia etc are who they are because thats the way they wanted it?
i find that hard to accept...........

what constitutes 'less fortunate' anyway? some of the most wonderful loving kids ive met have had severe autism, downes syndrome
and other forms of mental retardation.....

ive been racking my brain with this question for years and have yet to find a satisfactory answer!

I too have wondered about this. Perhaps those individuals entered into some kind of soul contract with their parents and other family members before incarnating, in order to allow particular qualities in that family to emerge or grow. Compassion, sacrifice, patience, unconditional love for example.

[Gone002]

I don't fully believe that i have been here before, to my knowlegde i would say this is my first time and last time on earth. Are all people reincarnated ?

[OmeyocaN777]

I don't fully believe that i have been here before, to my knowlegde i would say this is my first time and last time on earth. Are all people reincarnated ?

IF you enter in a circle of births(even for helping)............you must go all the way down on it, until circle is "close"(fulfilled).
When you interfere, you create Karma(connect with it).
(maybe i'm wrong/are just theories)

[Odah]

The Range of wealth and poverty.. sickness and health. Is part of the earth paridim at this point. It is one of the few places a consious soul can experience the lack we do here on the earth.. and also we live in a time where many of those born into extreme lack will see their lives greatly improve. Our souls enter the bodies and chose circumstance that will be the best for that souls growth.

There has been a large influx of souls into humanity in the past 60 or so years from all types of backgrounds. The are here to push humanity on a much better path. there are nearly 7 billion people now .. there where less than 2 billion souls altogether. so where did the other 5 billion come from . A lot of people are here for one go only maybe two. Then they will go back to where they belong.

I have had to ask myself the questions of why was a Born where i was born .. why did i chose the body type i would eventually have why did my soul chose that i would be born with bi polar disorder.. and high functioning autism .. and a list of other fun things on the side. the answer i hold onto know.. Was it was to put me on the course of waking up and having an understand of what we are going through right on time .

[Peace of Mind]

Hi all,

In regards to the mentally ill…

It may have something to do with karma, maybe not. But, I know one thing that is certain. Most (if not all) of the people born with severe mental and/or physical conditions are truly great people. If they did decided to come here in such a condition…they have my utmost respect. Brave mighty souls is an understatement, just to think they sacrificed certain experiences here so others can learn through empathy is extremely honorable, It only saddens me when their nobility is overlooked, but seen as the very ones with the terminal illnesses. If you are ever fortunate to spend some time with a few…you will not regret it and you will recognize that it was time well spent.

I have some family members with Cerebral palsy, and other handicaps. Indirectly, they can teach you so much, and if you have the ear to understand their words…precious lessons await.

Without these magnificent people I’m sure I wouldn’t be where I’m at today. I’m honored to say much of my success can be credited to them. The spirit is very strong in these individuals; they are not weak. In fact, they will humble you with their resilience. Never will you realize just how bless we all are…not with out recognizing the masked talents of the handicap. So much in life is easily taken for granted, I’m very thankful for each and every last one of their contributions; what they have to share is priceless…

I don’t believe in wasted lives, we are all very important, just misguided. Who really haves the right to define what normal or privilege is? Most people with great financial wealth are miserable…while the meek is often seen in jubilation. The world is run by idiots…while most of us stand in pity pride questioning the abilities of a savant.

Peace

[Teakai]

We chose where to be born for how it would best suit our pupose and growth.

[Anchor]

The reason why you are as you are, is because that is the way you wanted it to be.

but doesnt that suggest that someone with cerebal palsy, leukemia etc are who they are because thats the way they wanted it?
i find that hard to accept...........

Lots of what we "value" about life is a product of our programming, experienced from birth to the current moment.

This becomes a paradigm in which you operate.

That paradigm is based on an illusion set up for you in the mind of the infinite creator.

As you start to penetrate the veil, the paradigm changes - this is what is happening to a lot of people, their paradigm is changing.

It is changing for you.

It is not based on solid science and proof - and a lot of the reasons for the nature of this illusion is bound in that very fact - it forces YOU to do the work and not have others do it for you. In this way, you select your own unique and special paths to truth from the infinite set of paths available. However, others can provide catalyst in the form of actions/situations and ideas that help.

Occasionally, large changes in the/your paradigm happen - a paradigm shift. The catalyst being times of great change - like we are in now.

John..

[Teakai]

I don't fully believe that i have been here before, to my knowlegde i would say this is my first time and last time on earth. Are all people reincarnated ?

Hi Celt - from what I have read that rings bells with me - no, not all people have been reincarnated here. Some may only come once and never again, choosing other avenues for growth.

[Jake]

I don't fully believe that i have been here before, to my knowlegde i would say this is my first time and last time on earth. Are all people reincarnated ?

I recently finished 'The Convoluted Universe Book 3' By Delores Cannon. She is a past life regretion therepist who uses hypnosis as her primary tool. I realize that i have to take what is said with a grain of salt because it is 'technically' chanelled material. With that said,,,

Her take on reincarnation is, yes we all 'reincarnate'. That does not necesarriily mean that we live many many lives as humans, not all of us.
Many old souls here have karmic ties to this physical reality, (positive and negative) and therefore, they are moving from one human canister to the next, fulfilling their karmic vowes as they go. She also goes on to detail the NEW souls that have never been to the earth belief system territories before, but have answered a universal 'call' that was put out to come to our physical reality (with no karmic ties) and help raise the vibration of our world so as to facilitate the impending shift in consciousness that we are starting to experience.

So according to Cannon, it is most likely (nowadays) that one would NOT remember past lives as humans, because their past lives were not human.

[Hughe]

Karma had been heavy subject to me too. It took me many years to get over the Karma based on religion, I was a Buddhist by the way. I threw it into garbage can few years ago. Few past life books are fun to read. Some alien material related to past life is interesting too.

It's double edge sword to justify one's living condition. Most religions embrace Karma to fear and control the general public. How handy it is? "You did something wrong big time in past lives, so be silence." End of argument, no social change. There are few countries that still maintain slavery class notoriously India where Buddhism were born.

If one can choose one's past lives, that's good thing. But, people can have good Karmas if we make society that everybody is equal and live free. Karma is interaction between souls like the balls on billiard table. What if one die on Earth, choose to go different planet? Nowadays many souls leave planet Earth. Believe or not. There are souls that come to Earth from off planet.

Some researchers even said the growth of souls start from animal level. So some people have the memory of animals in past. Considering souls have hundreds of past lives, that's quiet extraordinary recall.

People who have good lives in present time might never been that role or reason to be that position. It's known fact in pass life regression, people constantly choose various roles in their past lives. One downside of people on Earth, due to the slavery monstrous civilization - group consciousness - humans have created, delay the break off from bad Karma as an individual soul and whole race.

I think any humans who know exactly what is coming after death can break way from crazy Karmic lives on Earth. Do I want to live on Earth again? I haven't decided yet. I met few people that they won't come back here again. For them, this live time is final graduation year on Earth. I know human has two chance of enlightenment in every life: One is within a life time by learning/experience, 2nd one is the short period between death and rebirth. A person so caught-up in materialistic life or heavy on religion is guaranteed to be born as miserable humans. I'm sorry to say this. Sometimes it's too much to take stuff.

Hope humans can make it this time - the collective enlightenment as one race.

[heretogrow]

Just as I am reading and pondering this thread, my daughter came up to hug me and said "Thank you for making me born!!!

Ahh! Synchronicity abounds here at Avalon... what power we create when we gather here!

Much Love,
Julia:)

[Teakai]

Just as I am reading and pondering this thread, my daughter came up to hug me and said "Thank you for making me born!!!

Ahh! Synchronicity abounds here at Avalon... what power we create when we gather here!

Much Love,
Julia:)

Awww, that is soooo beautiful, Heretogrow.
(make sure you tell her that when she's 15, red face and screeching "I DIDN'T ASK TO BE BORN!!!!!!!!")
:)

[thunder24]

I don't fully believe that i have been here before, to my knowlegde i would say this is my first time and last time on earth. Are all people reincarnated ?
no there are new souls still being born

[Taurean]

Just imagine what it would be like if everybody had the compassion that you have.

[Lost Soul]

My experiences with the Naadi Shastra in India, Which are 2000yr old manuscripts written in ancient Tamil preserved on palm leaves, they are an account of ALL souls going back to our original twelve tribes,
During my experience and full reading i was told that we all arrange our births before we come to earth, Our time of Birth, Our place of birth, our parents, Daughters, Sons, partners and friends that we meet during our souls journey are all pre arranged by sacred contracts between soul mates we have spent " Many " lifetimes with, I share some of my experiences in this second Radio Interview broadcast in Jan this year.

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/belovenow/2011/02/01/be-love-now-living-in-the-now

I wholeheartedly agree. I would add that we also choose the body we are born into because we seek to gain the experience that body will have during its lifetime. By gaining that experience, our soul becomes wiser and in being wiser, grow closer to the creator.

[David Hughes]

Thanks for all the replies.


During my experience and full reading i was told that we all arrange our births before we come to earth, Our time of Birth, Our place of birth, our parents.......

This kind of explanation is perfectly plausible, but I struggle with it when i consider the darkest most horrific lives that some children are forced to live. Why would any soul choose to come to this planet and get sexually abused, beaten etc for decades, sometimes with it all ending in death by starvation or murder? They chose that??? And if its based on past-life karma, well doesn't that ultimately mean that these kids deserve their lot?


Personally, i think that we're are born into our own particular surroundings because these are the surroundings that we need to be in to learn the particular lessons that we're here to learn. Somebody born into power (in a previous life) may be born into power again, but this time the circumstances are different so that they can learn the things that they didn't last time.

and....


Our souls enter the bodies and chose circumstance that will be the best for that souls growth.

and....


Many old souls here have karmic ties to this physical reality, (positive and negative) and therefore, they are moving from one human canister to the next, fulfilling their karmic vowes as they go.

These explanations work for me most of the time but again, where it falls down is when i consider the extreme debts of depravity and suffering some people are born into.

This woman is the perfect example of what i'm getting at:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Living-Evil-Cynthia-Owen/dp/0755319044/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1300167478&sr=8-2

She 'chose' that life?


I know one thing that is certain. Most (if not all) of the people born with severe mental and/or physical conditions are truly great people. If they did decided to come here in such a condition…they have my utmost respect. Brave mighty souls is an understatement, just to think they sacrificed certain experiences here so others can learn through empathy is extremely honorable

I completely agree. I work in an elementary school and have the good fortune to regularly interact with 3 severely autistic boys, a Down's Syndrome kid, and a handful of other 'slow learners'. They are no less remarkable than any of the other 'normal' kids.

[Gajanana]

I was born in the east-end of london 1960. I was a rebel I never fitted in, yet through peer preasure and the false concept of being "poor but proud" I learned to hate the rich and wealthy (anyone that had anything material that was unatainable for us) yet learned to see up to east-end gangsters, because thay were poor, but made it good by ripping off the rich (false belief). Any kind of outsider was a threat, racism excelled. Local rivalry was rife, in the course of time local gang fights spilled onto the football terraces. Rival fans learned to hate each other and all the time, although I was completely immersed in this paradigm, it felt wrong. I drank and took drugs to find some escape. I was a poet in secret, the thought of anyone finding out was sheer terror. Psychic experiences (lots of them) were denied by my fear of ridicule and in general, the real me was smothered by what was surrounding me.

To illustrate the depth of living that way of life a little story you might find difficult to understand.

Each football team and its fans have nickname, usually a derisory word used by rivals, my team situated in an area with a large jewish community, was called by rivals "the yids" this name we adopted and defended as something to be proud of. we fought other fans whilst wearing the star of david to show our pride at being the yid army. some of us were so fanatical that we spread the untruth, that to be a true yid, you had to visit the homeland - israel. yes this is true! those that went to stay on a kibbutz in israel were almost heroes when they returned to the terraces.
I went on my pilgramage in 1981.
On reaching the kibbutz I was shocked to find so many foriegners staying as volunteers, the were Frogs (french) Krauts (germans) plus a host of other dopey foriegners. During the first two days I couldnt get to grips with being surrounded by so many jokers that knew nothing of life at the center of the universe back in east london.
Then at dinner one evening I had a sudden revelation... these were really nice people, they were kind and accepting. They were interested in hearing about where I came from and told exciting stories of travelling the world and how amazing the planet was. I changed in an instant and knew that I could never live the rest of my life in the prison I was born into. There is more to the story, but to keep it short. I ended up moving to denmark with my danish wife and have been here since 1987.

I feel that maybe its time to move on soon, but am a little unclear as to where or when - maybe never.

We are born where we need to be and will end up where we need to be.

just my little angle on things, sorry about the long post.

Peace - Om Shanti... G

[Anchor]

I remembered something I should probably have included earlier - I read we incarnate in groups.

In a group situation where souls share "pre-incarnation contract negotiation" ( :) ), one could incarnate as an incapacitated child so as to provide a service to the parent (by mutual agreement) and all the people that will end up helping that person through life.

It isn't just about us - its the people around us as well - and something that happens to one, is reflected to all.

John..

[Billy]

thanks for all the replies.......


During my experience and full reading i was told that we all arrange our births before we come to earth, Our time of Birth, Our place of birth, our parents.......

for me, this kind of explanation is perfectly plausible, but where i fall down is when i consider the darkest most horrific lives some children are forced to live - why would any soul choose to come to this earth and get sexually abused, beaten etc for decades, sometimes ending in death by starvation or murder? they chose that??? and if its based on past-life karma, well doesnt that ultimately mean that these kids deserve their lot? some kids are living the worst kind of nightmares i can ever imagine with almost zero chance of escape or enlightenment .......


Personally, i think that we're are born into our own particular surroundings because these are the surroundings that we need to be in to learn the particular lessons that we're here to learn. Somebody born into power (in a previous life) may be born into power again, but this time the circumstances are different so that they can learn the things that they didn't last time.

and .....


Our souls enter the bodies and chose circumstance that will be the best for that souls growth.

and


Many old souls here have karmic ties to this physical reality, (positive and negative) and therefore, they are moving from one human canister to the next, fulfilling their karmic vowes as they go.

these explanations works for me most of the time....but again, where it falls down is when i consider the extreme debts of depravity and suffering some people are born into........who or what are these poor tortured souls?

this woman is a perfect example of what im getting at........
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Living-Evil-Cynthia-Owen/dp/0755319044/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1300167478&sr=8-2

she 'chose' this life??????


I know one thing that is certain. Most (if not all) of the people born with severe mental and/or physical conditions are truly great people. If they did decided to come here in such a condition…they have my utmost respect. Brave mighty souls is an understatement, just to think they sacrificed certain experiences here so others can learn through empathy is extremely honorable

i totally agree......i work in an elementary school and have the good fortune to interact with 3 severely autistic boys, a downes syndrome kid and a handful of other 'slow learners' ......they really are incredible ...... it takes a little time to work out what their level is and how their brains are wired but once you do its very rewarding .....

Between 5 and 8 yrs old i was severely sexually abused, I mention this in the radio interview i posted in my previous comment here. I may not have chosen to experience another souls negativity before being born, But by finding my own power i realized that his negativity belonged to him and did not belong to me, i managed to forgive and not be attached to his issues, now i am stronger and give thanks for all my experiences, positive and negative, they have been my teachers and made me who i am in this moment.