What's wrong with ATS?

[aroundthetable]

Bill doesn't seem to rate ATS very highly and i am wondering why and if this view is shared by Avalon members. Personally i find it at least as good a source of news as Avalon is, and quite frankly i find it to be more incisive in many areas, including some very good research. I also find the facts to drama ratio considerably higher than here. Perhaps that is because ATS has a clear intention i.e. news, whereas Avalon often flounders when it comes to a clear purpose. That is not necessarily a bad thing, maybe Avalon focuses more on general discussion and therefore it is a different kind of fish. But the point remains...what is the problem with ATS?

[TigaHawk]

I've noticed alot of support for Scorch Faal.

Reading their threads is like reading a magazine you pickup from the news agency. There's more censored/blacked out posts than there is actual posts (in reference to more advertising than news articles in magazines)


They take things like this - very seriously.

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread673511/pg1

Even tho it's obvious to most that it's more than likely a cat running like a bat out of hell across debree trying to get to safety. (that is if you can actualy see what they're referring to as the UFO first view - without reading the comments)

They even had a thread with some #%@# aussie kid out bush with a laser pointer and an aliens mask that did a series of 4 video's. Anyone with seemingly half a brain would be able to come to the same conclusion that it's a product of a kid's boredom. But the seriousness of all the members in that thread - including the fact they actualy got the youtube uploader to come and chat about it too - was kinda worrying.

I guess tho - this is what happens when you're a more.. widely known of site?

Much more noise to filter out - and because of that i think the community degenerates.

[Lord Sidious]

Bill doesn't seem to rate ATS very highly and i am wondering why and if this view is shared by Avalon members. Personally i find it at least as good a source of news as Avalon is, and quite frankly i find it to be more incisive in many areas, including some very good research. I also find the facts to drama ratio considerably higher than here. Perhaps that is because ATS has a clear intention i.e. news, whereas Avalon often flounders when it comes to a clear purpose. That is not necessarily a bad thing, maybe Avalon focuses more on general discussion and therefore it is a different kind of fish. But the point remains...what is the problem with ATS?

This place is in a different category altogether.
This is not a news site, even though we have news.
I have read some of the threads at ATS and all I can say is that I wouldn't last long there due to nuggetry.
I can tell that my homocidal tendancies would be too strong to control having to wade through all the nuggets.

[kerbie]

It's the rules of the internet dude.

Rule number 437 - Thou must hate all similar forums to the one you frequent, moderate or administer. It always happens. I would venture to guess that some people need to prop up their ego by believing that they are smart enough to pick the best forum of the bunch.

Also, within the conspiracy industry, a lot of the people that claim that they are researchers out of passion and love are actually doing it for financial gain. They know that "rival" websites and forums are potentially lowering their own profits so it makes perfect sense to demonise to competition.

You then have the waking-sleep sheep. The ones who think they are awake because they've said it enough times. They'll regurgitate any information that their conspiracy "contacts" (other forum posters) post and claim it as fact. If enough people on a website slag off another website, the waking-sleep sheep will repeat it and claim it as fact.

In all truth, all conspiracy forums are equally crap. And there's only 1 reason - forums consist of people. Every forum has a name and or some lame slogan but in reality, they're no different to any other forum. People post threads, people reply to threads, people troll threads, flame wars erupt and then lots of members leave crying about how it was better in the old days. People cannot read emotions through text alone and they always read text from their own perspective. This happens on every forum, ats, glp, pa, pc, davidicke etc.

If you want good information that is relevant to your life and history, go away from the computer and do something random, anything. I guarentee you'll learn more in that day than you will sitting on forum.

[steve_a]

Hi aroundthetable,

There is absolutely nothing wrong with ATS. I think they are stricter when it comes to posting 'incredible' information and they will go to task on what they call 'fake'
whistlebowers.

As to Bill Ryan's dislike of said forum, who can answer that question is Bill Ryan. I'm sure he'll give you his reasons.

Best regards,

Steve


Bill doesn't seem to rate ATS very highly and i am wondering why and if this view is shared by Avalon members. Personally i find it at least as good a source of news as Avalon is, and quite frankly i find it to be more incisive in many areas, including some very good research. I also find the facts to drama ratio considerably higher than here. Perhaps that is because ATS has a clear intention i.e. news, whereas Avalon often flounders when it comes to a clear purpose. That is not necessarily a bad thing, maybe Avalon focuses more on general discussion and therefore it is a different kind of fish. But the point remains...what is the problem with ATS?

[Gaia]

You wrote in a other thread :
The main thing i got from looking at the GLP website was how chaotic and rude it is generally. Project Avalon stands well in the approach of its members, hats off to you all

The answer is simple. Conspiracy websites are the wrongdoing in spreading news though from my viewpoint. Many people spend a lot of time here on Avalon they work hard to better themselves and build friendships. They become acquainted with like minded people, and put a lot of time and effort into their articles and members.

[aroundthetable]

It's the rules of the internet dude.

Rule number 437 - Thou must hate all similar forums to the one you frequent, moderate or administer. It always happens. I would venture to guess that some people need to prop up their ego by believing that they are smart enough to pick the best forum of the bunch.

Also, within the conspiracy industry, a lot of the people that claim that they are researchers out of passion and love are actually doing it for financial gain. They know that "rival" websites and forums are potentially lowering their own profits so it makes perfect sense to demonise to competition.

You then have the waking-sleep sheep. The ones who think they are awake because they've said it enough times. They'll regurgitate any information that their conspiracy "contacts" (other forum posters) post and claim it as fact. If enough people on a website slag off another website, the waking-sleep sheep will repeat it and claim it as fact.

In all truth, all conspiracy forums are equally crap. And there's only 1 reason - forums consist of people. Every forum has a name and or some lame slogan but in reality, they're no different to any other forum. People post threads, people reply to threads, people troll threads, flame wars erupt and then lots of members leave crying about how it was better in the old days. People cannot read emotions through text alone and they always read text from their own perspective. This happens on every forum, ats, glp, pa, pc, davidicke etc.

If you want good information that is relevant to your life and history, go away from the computer and do something random, anything. I guarentee you'll learn more in that day than you will sitting on forum.

Just when i'm trying to collect my thoughts to response, you already did it for me....cheers :) A fine analysis in my opinion.

[aroundthetable]

Hi aroundthetable,

There is absolutely nothing wrong with ATS. I think they are stricter when it comes to posting 'incredible' information and they will go to task on what they call 'fake'
whistlebowers.

As to Bill Ryan's dislike of said forum, who can answer that question is Bill Ryan. I'm sure he'll give you his reasons.

Best regards,

Steve


Bill doesn't seem to rate ATS very highly and i am wondering why and if this view is shared by Avalon members. Personally i find it at least as good a source of news as Avalon is, and quite frankly i find it to be more incisive in many areas, including some very good research. I also find the facts to drama ratio considerably higher than here. Perhaps that is because ATS has a clear intention i.e. news, whereas Avalon often flounders when it comes to a clear purpose. That is not necessarily a bad thing, maybe Avalon focuses more on general discussion and therefore it is a different kind of fish. But the point remains...what is the problem with ATS?

Thanks Steve, i just don't see the benefit in slagging them off, especially when members here are allegedly more thoughtful and discursive. As to what Bill thinks, well my question was not directed to him but the members. I am definately not out to create more headaches, quite the opposite, i think reducing conflict is always the best policy.

[aroundthetable]

You wrote in a other thread :
The main thing i got from looking at the GLP website was how chaotic and rude it is generally. Project Avalon stands well in the approach of its members, hats off to you all

The answer is simple. Conspiracy websites are the wrongdoing in spreading news though from my viewpoint. Many people spend a lot of time here on Avalon they work hard to better themselves and build friendships. They become acquainted with like minded people, and put a lot of time and effort into their articles and members.

Wow i believe you qouted my own words! Amazing how you found that, and of course i still mean it. :)

[Icecold]

Steve_A


There is absolutely nothing wrong with ATS. I think they are stricter when it comes to posting 'incredible' information and they will go to task on what they call 'fake'
whistlebowers.

A healthy and refreshing approach. Nothing wrong with a little healthy scepticism eh Steve?

[ulli]

whether one finds truth in forums or reading tea leaves...

it's just a question of preference...

a matter of degree of social interaction...

[Belle]

IMHO, ATS is just slightly better than GLP. But as I posted on another thread...can you say Rand? They put out scenarios of all kinds, usually under some kind of "insider info", and then gauge the response. If someone is smart enough to start putting pieces together, along come the shills to derail the thread. It's about predicting response and behavior to certain scenarios.

[aroundthetable]

But saying some threads say some things that some people don't like isn't really any different to Avalon, thats just normal interaction as you of course already know. I just don't see any need to direct any bad vibes that way. Even in the last hour i've seen two threads clearly derived from ATS posts. and why not if we/you/i, think its worth bringing to the attention of members of this forum?

[The One]

What's wrong with ATS

Could never get a descent pair of wheels

http://www.atseuromaster.co.uk/

[aroundthetable]

What's wrong with ATS

Could never get a descent pair of wheels

http://www.atseuromaster.co.uk/

Lol.....ok!

[Gaia]

What's wrong with ATS

Could never get a descent pair of wheels

http://www.atseuromaster.co.uk/

I've got a pair of wheels for ATS;)

http://www.everymantri.com/.a/6a00d83451b18a69e20112793b192528a4-500wi

[CyRus]

It's the rules of the internet dude.

Rule number 437 - Thou must hate all similar forums to the one you frequent, moderate or administer. It always happens. I would venture to guess that some people need to prop up their ego by believing that they are smart enough to pick the best forum of the bunch.

Also, within the conspiracy industry, a lot of the people that claim that they are researchers out of passion and love are actually doing it for financial gain. They know that "rival" websites and forums are potentially lowering their own profits so it makes perfect sense to demonise to competition.

You then have the waking-sleep sheep. The ones who think they are awake because they've said it enough times. They'll regurgitate any information that their conspiracy "contacts" (other forum posters) post and claim it as fact. If enough people on a website slag off another website, the waking-sleep sheep will repeat it and claim it as fact.

In all truth, all conspiracy forums are equally crap. And there's only 1 reason - forums consist of people. Every forum has a name and or some lame slogan but in reality, they're no different to any other forum. People post threads, people reply to threads, people troll threads, flame wars erupt and then lots of members leave crying about how it was better in the old days. People cannot read emotions through text alone and they always read text from their own perspective. This happens on every forum, ats, glp, pa, pc, davidicke etc.

If you want good information that is relevant to your life and history, go away from the computer and do something random, anything. I guarentee you'll learn more in that day than you will sitting on forum.

Brilliant! =) Perfectly summed up, and my experiences with forums reflect what you are saying. Avalon is a far better forum than most out there, but it has it's fair share of immature BS as well.

At least Bill is trying his hardest to direct the focus to what matters..

[Bill Ryan]

--------

1) I'm still banned at ATS as a 'hoaxer'.

2) The ATS attorney, Wayne Jaeschke, illegally impersonated a whistleblower in early 2007, and was exposed by myself and others.

3) The wife of ATS co-founder 'Springer' (Mark Allin) - username 'Val Hall' - works for Halliburton. (Not in itself a crime. But it says something about something.)

4) From the second interview Kerry and I did with John Lear:

http://projectcamelot.org/lang/en/john_lear_2008_transcript_1_en.html





Bill: Let me share this e-mail with you, John. This is from somebody called Gary Dix, who used to work very closely with Simon, Mark and Bill. In the early days of ATS and, after a major disagreement, he quit. He’s based in New Zealand. And he sent me a long e-mail.

John: And the date?

Bill: A couple of years ago.

John: Yeah.

Bill: And I’ll just read one of the pertinent paragraphs:



“As they become more negative over a topic, they begin to drive the threads using sockpuppets, fake member names, as they don’t want to be seen to be guiding directions in the threads as mods and admin. This is the STYLE of mods and admin in the future - using fake accounts to allow them to freely post their ideas.”We got this on record from a guy on the inside, okay? Now, of course, they’ll deny it. But if you’ve got someone whose user name is 'Skeptic Overlord', what does that tell us?

[aroundthetable]

Well that explains your dislike! Fortunately for the rest of us its still often a decent source of info.

PS Couldnt help but smile at being banned as a hoaxer lol. Bad boy!!

[bodixa]

Main difference, Avalon isn't a conspiracy forum it's a 'truth seeker' research forum. ;) ATS makes my brain hurt.

Actually, too much conspiracy theory overkill reminds me of church and makes me want to commit verbal nuggeticide, like Uncle Sidious.

Actually, I was wondering what happened to all the resources on the old Avalon web site before Camelot and Avalon became 2 distinct whistleblower sites. Avalon used to be an 'off grid' resource and it's just be default that the forum was hosted here. I think. There was some good stuff on the site - where dit go?

[Ahkenaten]

--------

1) I'm still banned at ATS as a 'hoaxer'.

2) The ATS attorney, Wayne Jaeschke, illegally impersonated a whistleblower in early 2007, and was exposed by myself and others.

3) The wife of ATS co-founder 'Springer' (Mark Allin) - username 'Val Hall' - works for Halliburton. (Not in itself a crime. But it says something about something.)

4) From the second interview Kerry and I did with John Lear:

http://projectcamelot.org/lang/en/john_lear_2008_transcript_1_en.html





Bill: Let me share this e-mail with you, John. This is from somebody called Gary Dix, who used to work very closely with Simon, Mark and Bill. In the early days of ATS and, after a major disagreement, he quit. He’s based in New Zealand. And he sent me a long e-mail.

John: And the date?

Bill: A couple of years ago.

John: Yeah.

Bill: And I’ll just read one of the pertinent paragraphs:



“As they become more negative over a topic, they begin to drive the threads using sockpuppets, fake member names, as they don’t want to be seen to be guiding directions in the threads as mods and admin. This is the STYLE of mods and admin in the future - using fake accounts to allow them to freely post their ideas.”We got this on record from a guy on the inside, okay? Now, of course, they’ll deny it. But if you’ve got someone whose user name is 'Skeptic Overlord', what does that tell us?

This is sounding a little familiar..................obviously has become a tried and true tactic for penetrating and disrupting web forums........wouldn't you know Halliburton would be on the cutting edge

[Icecold]

Bill:


As they become more negative over a topic, they begin to drive the threads using sockpuppets, fake member names, as they don’t want to be seen to be guiding directions in the threads as mods and admin. This is the STYLE of mods and admin in the future - using fake accounts to allow them to freely post their ideas.”

I've noticed that. They use the 'anonymous coward' nicks as socks. lol. Not a good look for a site that purports to 'tell it like it is'.

Also the Halliburton link absolutely stinks. One of the leading MIC corporations. Public enemy number one IMO.

[Rocky_Shorz]

one thing I enjoy about Avalon is the split between conspiracy and discussion.

anyone that posts into General discussion is looking to have the information picked apart by the best sleuths on the net...

Truth seekers come to Avalon for just that purpose, for all of you that want to spin your world toss it into conspiracies and we won't derail the conversations with truths... ;)

[mountain_jim]

There are some really good posters at ATS who put together some really good and informative threads, in my experience. Real time reports from Tokyo right now, for instance, is useful.

Still, its a big business, and I don't doubt what Bill said occurs/occured there.

GLP on the other hand is the most juvenile, Isreal-biased, and apparently Tavistock-influenced of all the 'conspiracy' sites. Still, if you want to know instant 'conspiracy' updates from around the world in the last hour, that place is jumping. Just with 90% absolute junk unfortunately. imho.

[Gaia]

Bill:


As they become more negative over a topic, they begin to drive the threads using sockpuppets, fake member names, as they don’t want to be seen to be guiding directions in the threads as mods and admin. This is the STYLE of mods and admin in the future - using fake accounts to allow them to freely post their ideas.”

I've noticed that. They use the 'anonymous coward' nicks as socks. lol. Not a good look for a site that purports to 'tell it like it is'.

Also the Halliburton link absolutely stinks. One of the leading MIC corporations. Public enemy number one IMO.


Given all the anonymous coward posts, Godlike Productions is not impossible that some are trolls are there... (See also Poe's Law) Not all posts on this website are intended as truthful or factual assertion by their authors. Some users of this website are participating in internet role playing. Trinity has the habit of installing spyware on your computer if you become too involved or open. Remember that. Apparently it's all caught up in behind the scenes projects, population reaction gauging, information compiling, and projected responses. They are everywhere, and they've affected everyone.




http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Poe%27s_Law

[HaveBlue]

Disgraceful. How dare this chap be in my country? Surely not a NZer! :rolleyes: (I know, alot of riff raff anywhere!)

[RAKMEiSTER]

nvm/direction/rest

[str8thinker]

I think Avalon is in danger of falling into the same trap as the other forums - too much unjustified opinion. Just imagine the effect if all of a sudden the mods here began deleting posts left right and center when anyone posted a view purporting to be fact but without substantiating it in any way. It's quite OK to say "This is my opinion only, but I've no facts or anyone else's support to back it up". How lame that would make a lot of posts look. That would deter so many posters that they would depart Avalon, never to return. And good riddance. Avalon would be a lot more factual and critical, enabling a lot more progress to be made in thrashing out fundamental issues.

All this celestial resonance and channeling and assorted BS that is starting to fill up the forum would be reduced to a bare minimum.

I would not be unhappy to see mods leap in and start editing other people's posts to prevent flame wars that seem so prevalent on ATS and GLP. Of course, showing that they were there. Yeah, it wouldn't hurt Avalon to become a left-brainer's forum, for a change.

[aroundthetable]

Here's an example of a remarkable piece of research and effort, just posted on ATS, perhaps its posts like these that made Bill became a member in the first place.

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread670742/pg1

Sorry its dated from 6/3/2011

[Rocky_Shorz]

that is March 6 2011...

nothing to be sorry about...

many of our members are there, of course they have reading that is worthwhile... ;)

when you spot a truth lying on their website, bring them forward for all of us to discuss...

[aroundthetable]

that is March 6 2011...

nothing to be sorry about...

many of our members are there, of course they have reading that is worthwhile... ;)

While i'm at it check this out, called star wars it has begun

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread663600/pg1

Ps...i'm not posting anymore ATS links here, these are just to give examples of possible good research.

[MMA_Fan]

I think Avalon is in danger of falling into the same trap as the other forums - too much unjustified opinion. Just imagine the effect if all of a sudden the mods here began deleting posts left right and center when anyone posted a view purporting to be fact but without substantiating it in any way. It's quite OK to say "This is my opinion only, but I've no facts or anyone else's support to back it up". How lame that would make a lot of posts look. That would deter so many posters that they would depart Avalon, never to return. And good riddance. Avalon would be a lot more factual and critical, enabling a lot more progress to be made in thrashing out fundamental issues.

All this celestial resonance and channeling and assorted BS that is starting to fill up the forum would be reduced to a bare minimum.

I would not be unhappy to see mods leap in and start editing other people's posts to prevent flame wars that seem so prevalent on ATS and GLP. Of course, showing that they were there. Yeah, it wouldn't hurt Avalon to become a left-brainer's forum, for a change.

Couldn't agree more with you mate. I'd love to see a forum where folk would have to produce decent references to back up their claims.
It would only strengthen the conspiracy community and get rid of the airy - fairy posters.

Maybe a sub forum on here with strict modding?

[Illuminaughty]

I came from the ATS forums. I still go to that site simply because it contains a large library of UFO videos and analysis'. Because of ATS I have become much keener in spotting fakes and hoaxes and general mis-identifications. ATS has some very good researchers and truthseekers, but they are largely overshadowed by newcomers, trolls, psuedo-skeptics...etc. I go back every now and then to see what the good ones have been up to. I used always get peeved when people would quote or link PA/PC and state how unreliable this place or that place is, when in reality other forums say the same about ATS.

In ATS, Sorcha Faal or Sucha Faail is a bad word. Everybody there knows who Sorcha really is. (interesting threads there about it) Newcomers copy links and start threads without knowing who she/he is. Any post with that name is instantly sent to the hoax bin.

When I joined this forum it was like stepping out of a Kids Day Care Center and into a library. It is very peaceful here (the drama seems to have died down a bit) and I intend to have a wonderful experience here and to meet some new like minded friends.

It sucks to hear that they consider Bill a hoaxer. I did not know about that beef until just now. ATS is not fond of David Wilcock either. Just because he made a prediction that did not come true, they have turned a def ear to him. I don't care if David ever got a prediction right or wrong, his messages are still relevant and full of wonderful insight.

It would be interesting to start a thread over at ATS about what Bill has said in this forum about them. I would like to see how the admins react. But not w/o Bills permission first. I would probably get trolled to death and then banned from there.

This should be ATS's new motto: Above Top Secret-Home of Jared Lee Loughner!

[Bob_2011]

Its quite noticeable thats its mainly guys posting there, why do you think that is, dont know what the % is but it does seem way one sided .

[Illuminaughty]

Its quite noticeable thats its mainly guys posting there, why do you think that is, dont know what the % is but it does seem way one sided .

There are quite a few there. I would imagine it is mostly due to the fact that women are too smart for that site.

[Feritciva]

This is one main problem of conspiracy research imo;

E.g.
A: Japanese Earthquake is HAARP thing.
B: No this is disinfo, it is a natural disaster.
C: Both A and B are disinfo agents, it was because of the moon.
D: A and B has misinformation, but C is total government agent!
E: C and D has some points but misses the truth as they are illuminati agents.
An Average Seeker: :confused:

I've been to ATS, Open Minds Forum and GLP (mostly as lurker/reader) and saw loads of trolls, woo-woo's and pseudo-sceptics (which is the hardest to endure). Although I'm relatively new on Avalon, this place has totally different vibe. Much more positive than other sites.

But there's one legendary forum for me and this is Noblerealms forum which is closed now. There was such high-quality debates back there! :tea:

P.S: Noblerealms is still open as searchable archieve. Check http://forum.noblerealms.org/

[shybastid]

Doggone Illumnaughty... You had me agreeing with you until your last sentence.. Why stoop to an insulting level? THAT'S why I like it here better..

Not quite "sugarcoating", but more tolerent without the insults if you disagree here.

Sometimes the mods might be more lenient with opinions then with facts here.
That's ok with me personly.

A lot of Avalonians are more polite with their disagreements.

It reads easier on my eyes. Don't mind conflict or another side of the spectrum.. I mind conflict with anger and emotion... Irritating.. ATS'er do that well.

[math330]

Three words; "The Conspiracy Chicks".

The site reads and feels like a marketing gimmick. Maybe I'm wrong, but it just doesn't feel right. Too glossy, too cheesy and I can't take it seriously.
It's good that alternative news is getting a higher profile but, considering the fake whistleblower and the Halliburton connection, maybe it's a little more disinfo than actual info.

[aroundthetable]

Three words; "The Conspiracy Chicks".

The site reads and feels like a marketing gimmick. Maybe I'm wrong, but it just doesn't feel right. Too glossy, too cheesy and I can't take it seriously.
It's good that alternative news is getting a higher profile but, considering the fake whistleblower and the Halliburton connection, maybe it's a little more disinfo than actual info.

Lol....yeah bad move on their part, turned me off too. As for the content of posts, there is still some really good research and hard work done there.

PS...Who was it said there was no women on there?!! teehee Any chance of The Avalon Amazons heading the front page? :p

[Illuminaughty]

Doggone Illumnaughty... You had me agreeing with you until your last sentence.. Why stoop to an insulting level? THAT'S why I like it here better..

Not quite "sugarcoating", but more tolerent without the insults if you disagree here.

Sometimes the mods might be more lenient with opinions then with facts here.
That's ok with me personly.

A lot of Avalonians are more polite with their disagreements.

It reads easier on my eyes. Don't mind conflict or another side of the spectrum.. I mind conflict with anger and emotion... Irritating.. ATS'er do that well.

Yeah I agree, that was a low blow. But after I read the link that Bill posted I admit I got a little angry with ATS and how it handles it's business. I meant for those words to have some humor behind them, but as we all know, it's hard to convey emotions through the internet. Sorry folks, didn't mean to offend anybody with that statement. I guess I still have some ATS chips to knock off my shoulder.

[Rocky_Shorz]

that is March 6 2011...

nothing to be sorry about...

many of our members are there, of course they have reading that is worthwhile... ;)

While i'm at it check this out, called star wars it has begun

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread663600/pg1

Ps...i'm not posting anymore ATS links here, these are just to give examples of possible good research.

while I had control of the Artifacts and was in contact with other worlds, I authorized intervention...

the operators didn't mind when I stepped in, they've wanted to help us for ages, but had their hands tied...

much of what is on that link is true, but remember Russia didn't know what they were looking at was created in Hollywood and wasn't a working system.

the heavy payload is a earth weather monitoring system to give them the eye to watch what is going on, but also had the ability to detect Anti mater burst that were being produced because of the Thorium being sprayed as chemtrails...

there are always spins in ATS, but keep your truth sensors on for what is real...

[Heise]

The Wayne Jaeshcke ATS incident had to do with Serpo and he supposedly was trying to discredit the story by impersonating Sylvester Mcoglin, an insider.

It was actually ATS members who told Bill Ryan of his agenda after hey noticed Wayne became more against the story by scamming Victor Martinez over emails... as they were initially looking to uncover the story as well. Two of those ATS members started the site "Reality Uncovered". If VM really was in the loop he would not have fallen for Waynes scam in the first place.


The legend of Serpo will be that it was a fabrication of Collins and Rick, as part of a viral marketing plan to generate buzz and interest for a book. It is this writer's conclusion that the only ones "behind" Rick Doty, in the creation of this hoaxed information, were Bob Collins and Douglas and Marilyn Ruben.

[Little Ishta]

ATS use to be an interesting place to go to. Now there seems to be a lot of rubbish on there. But there are still a few good posts every now and then. I used to frequent the place a lot. Until idiots started posting rubbish. And the debunkers.... lol they would still debunk the truth when it hits them in their face.

[Illuminaughty]

ATS use to be an interesting place to go to. Now there seems to be a lot of rubbish on there. But there are still a few good posts every now and then. I used to frequent the place a lot. Until idiots started posting rubbish. And the debunkers.... lol they would still debunk the truth when it hits them in their face.

I remember several posters who were well known debunkers on that site. Then they actually had experiences themselves. What's funny is that when they posted their experience, nobody believed them! They were "debunked" and tossed to the wayside.

[Unified Serenity]

It's quite simple to me. I want to know who is disseminating the information I am reading. I moderated a women's forum and no one was allowed multiple accounts. It causes distrust, and there are no reasons to have multiple accounts except to be able to say one thing on one account and appear completely different on another account, thus chicanery. A moderator can have their opinion, show themselves as a courteous poster, and help improve the tempo and mood of a thread. For ATS to have this extra accounts / fake posters smacks of propaganda, and while you may get truth there (I read over there every few days and occasionally post) you also might be getting spin, lies, an agenda to tip toe through.

[MargueriteBee]

Every time I go to ATS my PC gets sick.

[watchZEITGEISTnow]

ATS = CIA

GLP = NSA

...so I believe anyways :P

However be careful not to throw out the baby with the bath water!

This forum is ...nice ....but IMO 'infiltrated' as well... no names :P

Also David Icke has an excellent forum!

as does Veritas - a couple of the usual suspects on there too unfortunately...

This site http://magic-ufo.forum-phpbb.in/ is the real deal - and only the big guns post! - this forum is the best at this point in time to me anyway! :P

I have noticed a slight drop in the disinfo-agents - perhaps a sign their bosses are running out of time - or just on the run...

Well that's the weekend wrap up wZn style ....stay tuned for the next important episode where we discuss eggs and 1001 methods for throwing at GE executives...

:lock1:

[Bill Ryan]

The Wayne Jaeshcke ATS incident had to do with Serpo and he supposedly was trying to discredit the story by impersonating Sylvester Mcoglin, an insider.

It was actually ATS members who told Bill Ryan of his agenda after they noticed Wayne became more against the story by scamming Victor Martinez over emails... as they were initially looking to uncover the story as well. Two of those ATS members started the site "Reality Uncovered". If VM really was in the loop he would not have fallen for Waynes scam in the first place.

The legend of Serpo will be that it was a fabrication of Collins and Rick, as part of a viral marketing plan to generate buzz and interest for a book. It is this writer's conclusion that the only ones "behind" Rick Doty, in the creation of this hoaxed information, were Bob Collins and Douglas and Marilyn Ruben.

Well, this really needs a new thread in itself. I can understand anyone having those views, which have become a sort of accepted belief system in the UFO media, but that's absolutely not how it was.

Rick Doty's role was complex (and I met with him twice during that period personally, at length - he came to meet Kerry and myself at her house and we spoke off record for two and a half hours) - and Bob Collins and Mariiyn Ruben were categorically not involved in the story at all (Bob Collins was actually very critical of it).

Re Wayne Jaeschke, that's correct - Steve Broadbent and Ryan Dube (then ATS members, as was I) outed him to me: they had initially been part of the scam with Shawnna Connelly, and then I brought it to Victor Martinez's attention and to that of many others. He later lost his job not only with ATS, but with the East Coast law firm he was working for, Morrison & Foerster.

[str8thinker]

More of my views on ATS...

ATS has been around for a lot longer than Avalon, therefore Bill has had the opportunity to learn from ATS's errors when building Avalon and IMO has done a good job. Our posts are much more compactly arranged, a light gray background is easier on the eyes than either white (GLP) or black (ATS), and there are nice refinements such as subsections for Ground Crew, etc.

Nevertheless, when I am looking for all the information I can find regarding a particular topic that has not yet been picked up by Avalon members, ATS is one of the places I visit, as there is a good chance of finding an exhaustive thread on it that already weighs the pros and cons. I ignore the advertising between the posts, which creates long, long threads. Recognize that many (such as Doug Fisher of the Antarctica Maps post mentioned in this thread by aroundthetable, post #29, thanks) choose to post there, either because ATS still has a great deal of status or it may be the first of its type that novices discover.

ANY forum that exists for long enough is prone to forum bloat; unfortunately this can happen here. It lengthens search time. The longer it is left and the larger the mass of posts becomes, the more difficult (actually, impossible) it is to effect changes. I don't know what the answer to this is, but periodically archiving old threads and deleting irrelevant posts may be one. This requires many dedicated hands. I don't know whether ATS performs this.

It seems to me that ATS has tightened up on its posting rules, a credit to them; maybe the only thing "wrong" with ATS is - old age!


---------------------

By the way, I cynically believe Doug Fisher's first and rather overblown Antarctica maps thread is really a disguised ad for his website Atlantismaps.com (every image in his posts has this watermark) and forthcoming book, now in preparation. Moreover, he even has his own forum (http://www.atlantismaps.com/forum/index.php/board,13.0.htm), so it may even be argued that the impressive ATS thread is not entirely his own scholarship, though he has certainly put a lot of work into it. His website has been running since 2008, yet this 2011 thread is his first post on ATS.

If you go to his Contacts page he has an email link to attract publishing media to his website:


Agents, publishers and the media: If you are an agent, publisher or member of the media interested in learning more about this project, please email your inquiries here.

[Lazlo]

I don't have an account at ATS, but I do go to the new topics page at least once a day to see what is happening in the world. It's a good resource for breaking news, but I almost never read through an entire thread there, as it is too tedious.

[Heise]

The Wayne Jaeshcke ATS incident had to do with Serpo and he supposedly was trying to discredit the story by impersonating Sylvester Mcoglin, an insider.

It was actually ATS members who told Bill Ryan of his agenda after they noticed Wayne became more against the story by scamming Victor Martinez over emails... as they were initially looking to uncover the story as well. Two of those ATS members started the site "Reality Uncovered". If VM really was in the loop he would not have fallen for Waynes scam in the first place.

The legend of Serpo will be that it was a fabrication of Collins and Rick, as part of a viral marketing plan to generate buzz and interest for a book. It is this writer's conclusion that the only ones "behind" Rick Doty, in the creation of this hoaxed information, were Bob Collins and Douglas and Marilyn Ruben.

Well, this really needs a new thread in itself. I can understand anyone having those views, which have become a sort of accepted belief system in the UFO media, but that's absolutely not how it was.

Rick Doty's role was complex (and I met with him twice during that period personally, at length - he came to meet Kerry and myself at her house and we spoke off record for two and a half hours) - and Bob Collins and Mariiyn Ruben were categorically not involved in the story at all (Bob Collins was actually very critical of it).

Re Wayne Jaeschke, that's correct - Steve Broadbent and Ryan Dube (then ATS members, as was I) outed him to me: they had initially been part of the scam with Shawnna Connelly, and then I brought it to Victor Martinez's attention and to that of many others. He later lost his job not only with ATS, but with the East Coast law firm he was working for, Morrison & Foerster.

Yes, this topic alone should be a new thread. If other people are in the know, I cant be certain as I'm speaking about facts that have been presented to me to the best of my knowledge and research.

-HS.

[Bill Ryan]

The Wayne Jaeshcke ATS incident had to do with Serpo and he supposedly was trying to discredit the story by impersonating Sylvester Mcoglin, an insider.

It was actually ATS members who told Bill Ryan of his agenda after they noticed Wayne became more against the story by scamming Victor Martinez over emails... as they were initially looking to uncover the story as well. Two of those ATS members started the site "Reality Uncovered". If VM really was in the loop he would not have fallen for Waynes scam in the first place.

The legend of Serpo will be that it was a fabrication of Collins and Rick, as part of a viral marketing plan to generate buzz and interest for a book. It is this writer's conclusion that the only ones "behind" Rick Doty, in the creation of this hoaxed information, were Bob Collins and Douglas and Marilyn Ruben.

Well, this really needs a new thread in itself. I can understand anyone having those views, which have become a sort of accepted belief system in the UFO media, but that's absolutely not how it was.

Rick Doty's role was complex (and I met with him twice during that period personally, at length - he came to meet Kerry and myself at her house and we spoke off record for two and a half hours) - and Bob Collins and Mariiyn Ruben were categorically not involved in the story at all (Bob Collins was actually very critical of it).

Re Wayne Jaeschke, that's correct - Steve Broadbent and Ryan Dube (then ATS members, as was I) outed him to me: they had initially been part of the scam with Shawnna Connelly, and then I brought it to Victor Martinez's attention and to that of many others. He later lost his job not only with ATS, but with the East Coast law firm he was working for, Morrison & Foerster.

Yes, this topic alone should be a new thread. If other people are in the know, I cant be certain as I'm speaking about facts that have been presented to me to the best of my knowledge and research.

-HS.

Yes, fully understood. It was a highly complex story (even more complex than the 'Charles material' :) ) and Victor Martinez, Kerry and I are probably the only people who understood the bulk of what happened. (Victor knows more than anyone, and he is sworn to secrecy about quite a lot of stuff.)

As an unpublished snippet of indirect evidence, in October 2010 I was contacted by someone who worked for NORAD in the 1970s, calling himself Jay. He gave his full name and contact details, and wrote (very slightly edited):






I worked as an electrical engineer at NORAD in 1976-1978. I was just a young airman. But I did have the appropriate security clearances and the specific job classification necessary to have daily access to all areas of the Cheyenne Mountain complex for the three years I worked there.

I recall hearing primarily from the guys in the command center, in my opinion, what you'd call "scuttlebutt". Common "around the coffee pot" type conversations. There was, however, some excitement in the command center during a time period in July of 1978 from the guys working in the command center.

As you may or may not know, the general "Top Secret" environment of the military is on a very "need to know" basis. The constant threat of "long prison sentences in Ft Leavenworth", or just mysteriously "disappearing from existence" were the most common punishment for speaking of classified information outside the community of "those who needed to know."

I recall hearing the words "Crystal Palace" and "Crystal Knight" from several different individuals on several occasions during the July 1978 time frame. I really did not give it any serious thought until just a few months ago, when I heard the phrase "Crystal Knight" once again. I heard from a friend that some of the project managers from the 1960's provided "deathbed" confessions of things they felt the citizens of the world should really be aware of.

I "Googled" Project Crystal Knight, and spent many hours researching the various tidbits of information. I explored all the possible "Internet links" regarding the planet Serpo (the "final destination" of this exchange program), the dates and locations in the USA where the exchanges had been made, and the general circumstances that led to the creation and negotiations of this ET exchange program. The scattered pieces of this puzzle started to make some sense now.

[jjl]

More! More!

[Flash]

Bill:


As they become more negative over a topic, they begin to drive the threads using sockpuppets, fake member names, as they don’t want to be seen to be guiding directions in the threads as mods and admin. This is the STYLE of mods and admin in the future - using fake accounts to allow them to freely post their ideas.”

I've noticed that. They use the 'anonymous coward' nicks as socks. lol. Not a good look for a site that purports to 'tell it like it is'.
Also the Halliburton link absolutely stinks. One of the leading MIC corporations. Public enemy number one IMO.

Hi Icecold,

You are telling us that ATS is to conspiracy forums what Fox News is to television channels. Thanks for the information. To me that is what attracted me to Avalon. BS was detected and intelligently discussed and dealt with. Debunking was quite efficient as well. Humour was great.

[Humble Janitor]

Bill doesn't seem to rate ATS very highly and i am wondering why and if this view is shared by Avalon members. Personally i find it at least as good a source of news as Avalon is, and quite frankly i find it to be more incisive in many areas, including some very good research. I also find the facts to drama ratio considerably higher than here. Perhaps that is because ATS has a clear intention i.e. news, whereas Avalon often flounders when it comes to a clear purpose. That is not necessarily a bad thing, maybe Avalon focuses more on general discussion and therefore it is a different kind of fish. But the point remains...what is the problem with ATS?

As a member there (The Sword), it's just too negative of a place. Like Avalon,there's an influx of new members,many who flaunt the rules and just seem to be incredibly ignorant. They may claim to be "awakened" but they are not showing it.

I have tried to only lurk but the site is a magnet for negative influences.

On a good day, I can usually have a good conversation with some of the more intelligent members (they do exist, albeit in smaller numbers).

[Humble Janitor]

Bill:


As they become more negative over a topic, they begin to drive the threads using sockpuppets, fake member names, as they don’t want to be seen to be guiding directions in the threads as mods and admin. This is the STYLE of mods and admin in the future - using fake accounts to allow them to freely post their ideas.”

I've noticed that. They use the 'anonymous coward' nicks as socks. lol. Not a good look for a site that purports to 'tell it like it is'.

Also the Halliburton link absolutely stinks. One of the leading MIC corporations. Public enemy number one IMO.

You're thinking of GLP. They use those nicks.

Interesting information though. I do think the site can be full of crap but there are good people. You just have to look harder to find them.

[Humble Janitor]

The Wayne Jaeshcke ATS incident had to do with Serpo and he supposedly was trying to discredit the story by impersonating Sylvester Mcoglin, an insider.

It was actually ATS members who told Bill Ryan of his agenda after hey noticed Wayne became more against the story by scamming Victor Martinez over emails... as they were initially looking to uncover the story as well. Two of those ATS members started the site "Reality Uncovered". If VM really was in the loop he would not have fallen for Waynes scam in the first place.


The legend of Serpo will be that it was a fabrication of Collins and Rick, as part of a viral marketing plan to generate buzz and interest for a book. It is this writer's conclusion that the only ones "behind" Rick Doty, in the creation of this hoaxed information, were Bob Collins and Douglas and Marilyn Ruben.

I remember being captivated by Serpo and the disappointment that came when it turned out to be a hoax.

Never again. That's probably why I'm so leery of the Charles Material?

[Carmody]

Recall that some times the idea behind material that becomes 'invalid' is to make sure you are not paying attention ....next time.

Like parachuting, the 'risk' is the same each time. It is only the given personal impression that changes.

Like parachuting, sooner or later the repeated coin toss chances taken....will catch up with you.

In the case of difficult subjects like Serpo and Charles, sooner or later one will be true 'enough' to get the job done.

What I'm saying is that of something like Charles pops up again, there is no reason to handle it differently, at all.

It may be human to become hardened, overly skeptical, and/or burned out, but it is not logical or prudent to do so.