TIME DOES NOT EXIST - verified my previous posts today by BBC NEWS

[kenkyushiryo]

i had previously written a thread called

Time does not exist - its very simple - READ HERE (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?13995-Time-does-not-exist-its-very-simple-READ-HERE)

and a follow up thread

Charles/Atticus opinion or knowledge of time not existing (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?14613-Charles-Atticus-opinion-or-knowledge-of-time-not-existing)


i just had a look at the bbc news website on the main page this jumped out at me:

bottom right of the screen, features and analysis

About time (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-12849630)

it includes an interactive map and several video and text pieces

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-12849630


http://i.imgur.com/cGe8fl.jpg (http://imgur.com/cGe8f)


id love to know if there is a reason why today is so auspicious for a
a very large headline on the main news page requiring the reindoctrination
of this static concept.

in this simple video (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12787502) they confirm what i posted:

from my posting: (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?13995-Time-does-not-exist-its-very-simple-READ-HERE&p=135564&viewfull=1#post135564)
"...........counting is an illusion.
how can you have counting when there is the infinite?
there are only static illusions being held on to for emotional reasons.

keeping track of anything with accuracy is an illusion.
how can you accurately keep records of anything when there are infinite variables affecting:


- observation
- the recording medium
- the observer
- forces external to the observation, the medium and the observer

......................."

[Dale]

I've had a few conversations with a handful of individuals who are well-versed in physics, microbiology, and mathematics. It does seem that a common thread is woven with regard to the aspect of time - things would make more sense if it did not exist.

Personally, I feel time does not exist, but that it is more-so a technique in which a physical entity can utilize to better grasp the static world in which this entity is a part of. A sense of timelessness would be far too much for our small, physical brains to handle at this particular moment. Time may very well be a mechanism in which beings utilize to prevent all from happening at once, to learn and experience stimuli via means of cause and effect.

[Seikou-Kishi]

I don't think time can be a mechanism to stop all things happening at once; 'happening' is itself a temporal phenomenon, because it relies on a progression of events or, at least, a before-state and an after-state.

[truthseekerdan]

Time is a limitation, and because we are limited by the human mind's current consciousness level -- operate based on this illusion of time.

The reality is that everything is happening at the same moment (past/present/future) in the eternal now. :dizzy:

[Tenzin]

Time is a limitation, and because we are limited by the human mind's current consciousness level -- operate based on this illusion of time.

The reality is that everything is happening at the same moment (past/present/future) in the eternal now. :dizzy:

Now remote viewing makes sense to me. ;)

[jookyle]

Time doesn't exist. Clocks do.

[witchy1]

Ok to put a spanner in the works............. if time does not exist - why do we and other animals age..... just putting it out there (again) Interested in answers

[KosmicKat]

Can anyone accept, or equally usefully, deconstruct the idea that all of time has always been, but our experience is linear because for whatever reason we track our focus over a tiny area of the total, first focusing at the moment of birth(1) and leaving focus at the moment of death(2)?

most likely? or perhaps earlier?
possibly? does focus continue in some other form, i.e. broader? jump to another part of the whole?

[king anthony]

...if time does not exist - why do we and other animals age.....

'Time' and change are the same; 'time' can be the measurement of change, time is a tool of humankind to govern (their own) existence.

[Mike Gorman]

Aldous Huxley called the Human brain a 'reducing valve' of experience-when a substance such as Lysergic Acid,
or Mescaline is introduced, it removes the reduction effect of our 'valve', and we experience being un-cluttered
by our Time cage. Good old Aldous was a pretty hip fellow, 'When the Doors of perception are cleansed, man will see
everything as it is, Infinite' William Blake was hip too, and many lifetimes prior-these ideas of time are not new, the same conclusions
have been drawn , it is very human.

[truthseekerdan]

Ok to put a spanner in the works............. if time does not exist - why do we and other animals age..... just putting it out there (again) Interested in answers

That's how this "hell of an illusion game" works -- so that one does not get stuck in it living forever... ;)

[Jake]

I am going to have to agree with Eckhart Tolle on this one. The power of now is an amazing concept. It is the Past and the Future that does not exist. Making the 'passing' of time seem very real. It is always only NOW. This is profound. We feel that we are passing through time because we are always caught up in either the past or the future or both. Realize that it is always now!
Lets time it... got my stopwatch..... Okay..... GO. 1...2..........3..........4................5 still NOW, 6..............................7.............................. Still now. If fact, you can go away from this post, come back and read it AT ANY TIME and it will still be NOW. As my stopwatch continues to 'count time' I know that it is only Now. Some say that the illusion lies in that the past and the future meet somehow in the middle, and that is reality. I say (taking Tolles lead) that we have allowed our thoughts to be immersed in past/future contemplations, and in doing so, we have created the illusion that it is not NOW. IT IS ALWAYS NOW. How many thoughts in your head have to do with either the past or the future. Well neither of those things exist, so no wonder it is difficult to step outside of time.

The way to step outside of time, is to realize that it is NOW. Meditate on this concept. Please get a copy of Eckhart Tolles the power of now. He explains it better than I do. I love to read about peoples interp of time. Wonderful topic. thx. Jake...

[truthseekerdan]

Great book indeed, Jake! :)

Time only exists in our "left brain side", therefore is an illusion. :nod:

[RAKMEiSTER]

chonologicly added

It's About Time by Robert A. Nelson

Time travel might a science fiction fantasy, but time cameras have been a reality for several decades. And for all that the public knows or not, travel into the past (if not the future) might also be an accomplished fact. There are a few claimants to that effect, namely Preston Nichols and company, who have published a series of books (however dubious) about the "Montauk Project" in New Jersey during the 1960s (plus or minus hundreds of years).

In 1912, Baron Ernst von Lubek published an account of his accounts with trans-time photography. His equipment included a cathode ray tube with lead and dysprosium electrodes, energized by an Oudin coil (a modified Tesla coil).

In 1934, William D. Pelley, editor of Liberation magazine, reported on his experiments with a form of time-camera which he called "Ultra-Vision", allegedly developed in collaboration with Thomas Edison and Steinmetz. The apparatus was confiscated by the FBI.

The Radionic Camera developed in the 1950s by George DeLaWarr was capable of imaging the past and the future, and he published photographs demonstrating the effect. In the opinion of DeLaWarr, "Time is a vector of the magnetic spectrum and that spectrum has a place in itself for events... There is a pre-physical world in which the camera might be expected to operate".

http://www.rexresearch.com/time/time.htm

---------------
Could It Be? Spooky Experiments That 'See' The Future
January 4, 2011

One of the most respected, senior and widely published professors of psychology, Daryl Bem of Cornell, has just published an article that suggests that people — ordinary people — can be altered by experiences they haven't had yet. Time, he suggests, is leaking. The Future has slipped, unannounced, into the Present. And he thinks he can prove it.


Already critics are jumping up and down, saying this can't be, time is not porous, the experiments are flawed. But because this is the Professor Daryl Bem (he's in your high school textbook for his work on self perception) and because the journal publishing his article is top-of-the-line rigorous, all over the world psychologists are trying to duplicate what Dr. Bem has done. If serious scientists can repeat his results, this story is going to be big.
...

For me (untrained in these matters) the niggling question is Bem's numbers: 53.1 percent is slightly better than chance. It's not 50-50, but is this really significant? The effect shows up across nine different experiments, involving more than a thousand subjects. So the effect in cumulative. But is that enough?

Here's what Melissa Burkley writes in her blog at Psychology Today:

...small effect sizes are not that uncommon in psychology (and other sciences). For example, on average, the Bem studies showed an effect size of .20 (out of a possible range of 0-1). Although that is fairly small, it is as large as or larger than some well-established effects, including the link between aspirin and heart attack prevention, calcium intake and bone mass, second hand smoke and lung cancer, and condom use and HIV prevention (Bushman & Anderson, 2001). And as Cohen has pointed out, such small effect sizes are most likely to occur in the early stages of exploring a topic, when scientists are just starting to discover why the effect occurs and when it is most likely to occur.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/krulwich/2011/01/04/132622672/could-it-be-spooky-experiments-that-see-the-future

------------------------


The Huangshang Mountains
Jan 19, 2011

Scientists tell us that Earth’s geology has been shaped over million of years.

Millions of years might actually be involved in forming the topography we see. But if that is the case, then there are anomalies that occasionally surface. For example, there appear to be eyewitness accounts in myths and legends that refer to massive geological processes.

Rather than the slow processes of plate tectonics, wind, and weather there is another process that can cause exactly the same events but in an almost instantaneous period: electric discharge, or "spark machining." Electric currents might once have flowed through Earth's conductive strata with energies like nothing we know today.
http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2011/arch11/110119huangshang.htm

------------------------------

Time travel experiment demonstrates how to avoid the grandfather paradox (Update)
March 1, 2011

(PhysOrg.com) -- Among the many intriguing concepts in Einstein’s relativity theories is the idea of closed timelike curves (CTCs), which are paths in spacetime that return to their starting points. As such, CTCs offer the possibility of traveling back in time. But, as many science fiction films have addressed, time travel is full of potential paradoxes. Perhaps the most notable of these is the grandfather paradox, in which a time traveler goes back in time and kills her grandfather, preventing her own birth.

In a new study, a team of researchers has proposed a new theory of CTCs that can resolve the grandfather paradox, and they also perform an experiment showing how such a scheme works. The researchers, led by Seth Lloyd from MIT, along with scientists from the Scuola Normale Superiore in Pisa, Italy; the University of Pavia in Pavia, Italy; the Tokyo Institute of Technology; and the University of Toronto, have published their study in a recent issue of Physical Review Letters. The concepts in the study are similar to an earlier study by some of the same authors that was posted at arXiv.org last year.

http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-03-grandfather-paradox.html

-----------------------------

Closed Timelike Curves via Postselection: Theory and Experimental Test of Consistency
Phys. Rev. Lett. 106, 040403 (2011) [4 pages]

Received 12 May 2010; revised 22 November 2010; published 27 January 2011

Closed timelike curves (CTCs) are trajectories in spacetime that effectively travel backwards in time: a test particle following a CTC can interact with its former self in the past. A widely accepted quantum theory of CTCs was proposed by Deutsch. Here we analyze an alternative quantum formulation of CTCs based on teleportation and postselection, and show that it is inequivalent to Deutsch’s. The predictions or retrodictions of our theory can be simulated experimentally: we report the results of an experiment illustrating how in our particular theory the “grandfather paradox” is resolved.

http://prl.aps.org/abstract/PRL/v106/i4/e040403


--------------------

lol charles lol . mr ive been taken out of the loop. and poor little old me.
rest im not even touching. ask his PR man what his current view on it all is lol

1more add
[16:48:07] <RAKMEiSTER> [ Chase_And_Status - No_More_Idols (2011) - 13 - time__ft delilah ][ 0:53/4:20 ][ 237kbps|44100Hz ]

there is always time. as long there is a observer simple
get it or not is not the issue.

RA

[Carmody]

I've had a few conversations with a handful of individuals who are well-versed in physics, microbiology, and mathematics. It does seem that a common thread is woven with regard to the aspect of time - things would make more sense if it did not exist.

Personally, I feel time does not exist, but that it is more-so a technique in which a physical entity can utilize to better grasp the static world in which this entity is a part of. A sense of timelessness would be far too much for our small, physical brains to handle at this particular moment. Time may very well be a mechanism in which beings utilize to prevent all from happening at once, to learn and experience stimuli via means of cause and effect.

time exists solely as a relation of the one given "spin-out=spin-in" of the dual 2d field/vibration interactive (that creates a 3d atomic particle)...to another of these 'particles'. Since gravity is a push (room full of metronomes effect-sympathetic resonance due to intense voltage or pressure) we end up with enforced lattice structures we call matter.

matter is the odd man out in the universe, about 95% of the universe exists as a plasma function.

I've been successfully playing with this as a concept and on an experimental basis (with positive results) for nearly 20 years.

Time is a voltage (pressure angular vector differential from one particle to another). Perfect current flow, with no resistance is a zone where there is no time within that flow. Thus the suspended superconductor above the near absolute zero magnet.

I have also correlated this understanding and it dovetails perfectly with what I know about dimensional energetics and transfer.

These differentials are the intelligence in the system. Ie us, god, whatever..all exist as contained within these minute vibrational differentials. We are individually existing as an organized bit of differential vibrations-in this dimension, or the next.

Time only exists in this particular system, in this particular way. As well, thermodynamics fails if time exists in the way it does here in this place. This is due to time being unidirectional in this space.

If so, that means that there is an overall single vector signature on all atomic particles and this is also an overall vector for time, one direction. If this is true, which it is, then thermodynamics fails as it's basic premise is that no energy of any kind can be lost, etc. In order for a unidirectional system to exist then there must be loss (a unidirectionality) in the system. Closed history and open future require this small bit of 'loss' or differential in the system of 'near' equilibrium.

Since the full Maxwell's theorem includes all the aspects for this to take place..it also covers one more thing. Elasticity. Elasticity requires.............resonance. Frequency and resonance.

Maxwell's original treatise has the entire situation perfectly outlined and uses Faraday's works with electricity and fluids (mercury) which comes the vortex and complex field interactive. This means that one can manipulate time, space, matter, dimensional egress,e tc. with electromagnetic resonance.

which every tale from the Rig Veda to Tibetan monks, to deep underground bases, Dan Burisch, to whomever...they all say these things. Resonance and vortex in electromagnetics.... this gives access to the alteration of time, space, gravity, etc.

[Jake]

Schrödinger equation: I am not a physicist or a mathematician, but I have stretched my mind to try and understand Schrodingers Equations.
Schrodinger attempted to find a proper wave equation for the electron. And after weaving together and building upon advanced theoretical physics, he came up with two different equations. One that includes 'time'. And one that is independant of 'time'. Schrodinger found that if you drop time out of the math, you are still left with a perfectly viable mathematical model for explaining the wave function mathematically.
Which means that our physical universe exists independant of time. And that throwing 'time' into the mix, actually complicates things greatly.
Of course, I am paraphrazing what I remember. I am not a physicist. Jake...

please feel free to correct me if i am wrong...

[truthseekerdan]

Time and space can only coexist together in what is called space-time continuum. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time-space_continuum)

Basically my understanding is that past/ present/ future(possibilities) -- are all happening at the same "moment", but at different vibrations (frequencies).

I welcome opinions other than mine... :love:

[Carmody]

We are surfers in a layered 'moment' in time. I will explain later today (hopefully) the specifics of our awareness system as I have come to know or understand it -as of recent. This is as good a place as any to drop that information into. Basically, we are a 'soft ghost' that lies upon the given 2d vibrational field interactives (the interactive of their vector sums). This means the line 'all is permitted' is indeed true.. but is a poor way for the 'intelligence' (complex waveform field interactive that describes us as an individual packet of vector values in 2d interactives) that we are to view it. All being permitted is that properly understood..this means, more correctly that 'no limits' is the actual byword.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5lZDQKrLfE

Since we are a energetic or informational protrusion... into this linear unidirectional echo or ripple in 2d interactives we call a 3d universe, we directly control the interface and the existence of the space itself. Thus, the only way to successfully have a stable system or playpen for growing or budding information packets (ourselves).

We are actually in the MOMENT of singularity and our awareness is tied to the ripples of dimension and time. we are creating the ripples that become our futures. Only the now exists. The future exists only in our perception,as does history only exist in our perception. like a wallpapered intimate reflection glued to both our face and our ass, thus future and history exists in our singular reality of now contemplation.

When you finally understand this you tend to get a big grin on your face and relax. Then you begin to understand that you can easily create the correct ripple of the future you wish to be.

The problem becomes the one of the spoon and convincing everyone else to change the note they are emanating --and thus changing the 2d informational wave interactives of 'now' we are playing on. This...so the future ripple can change..so the moment of 'now' can surf it's way to another or different wallpaper that is 'fore and aft' in this grand illusion.

Control or influence into the animal in man becomes an all critical point as this emitted vibrational wave of the autonomous system in humankind is a major part of the backbone of consensus reality stabilization and overall vector of this immediate space.

Look at my avatar and maybe understand why I chose it. Of all the avatars that where available this is as close to a good representation I could find of the reality of 'what is'.

[Jake]

When you finally understand this you tend to get a big grin on your face and relax. Then you begin to understand that you can easily create the correct ripple of the future you wish to be.


Carmody, Beautifuly put. Yes a big joyful grin building up from the inside as you see the wisdom and accept the truth of it. Thank you, Jake.

[king anthony]

Perception within 'time'.

[quote from video]


Imagine two observers, one seated in the center of a speeding train car, and another standing on the platform as the train races by. As the center of the car passes the observer on the platform, he sees two bolts of lightning strike the car - one on the front, and one on the rear. The flashes of light from each strike reach him at the same time, so he concludes that the bolts were simultaneous, since he knows that the light from both strikes traveled the same distance at the same speed, the speed of light. He also predicts that his friend on the train will notice the front strike before the rear strike, because from her perspective on the platform the train is moving to meet the flash from the front, and moving away from the flash from the rear.

But what does the passenger see? As her friend on the platform predicted, the passenger does notice the flash from the front before the flash from the rear. But her conclusion is very different. As Einstein showed, the speed of the flashes as measured in the reference frame of the train must also be the speed of light. So, because each light pulse travels the same distance from each end of the train to the passenger, and because both pulses must move at the same speed, he can only conclude one thing: if he sees the front strike first, it actually happened first.

Whose interpretation is correct - the observer on the platform, who claims that the strikes happened simultaneously, or the observer on the train, who claims that the front strike happened before the rear strike? Einstein tells us that both are correct, within their own frame of reference. This is a fundamental result of special relativity: From different reference frames, there can never be agreement on the simultaneity of events.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wteiuxyqtoM

[Jake]

King Anthony, great find. So, that would mean that time is completely subjective, and relative to the observer. AND that the 'speed' at which time passes is also, completely subjective, and relative to the observer. That is why mathematical physicists are baffled. I mean, it seems that the math is breaking down. I have a feeling that if you were to enter Consciousness into the equations as a variable, lets say big"C" over little"c", that it all math in existence would simplify into; big"C" over little"c". But science does not want to open the floodgates to the study of Consciousness. I feel that it is inevitable.

[Realeyes]

Could It Be? Spooky Experiments That 'See' The Future
January 4, 2011

One of the most respected, senior and widely published professors of psychology, Daryl Bem of Cornell, has just published an article that suggests that people — ordinary people — can be altered by experiences they haven't had yet. Time, he suggests, is leaking. The Future has slipped, unannounced, into the Present. And he thinks he can prove it.

Thank you Rakmeister for a very informative post! This is really interesting what you quote about Time ‘leaking’. :cool:

I had a strange experience some years ago whereby I had the ‘effect’ before the ‘cause’. I was getting undressed ready for bed when I noticed I had a huge (two hand size) bruise coloured purple and black on my right thigh. It was not there at the start of the day and I had not done anything that would have caused such a bad bruise – and strangely it didn’t hurt or feel sore. I intuitively felt there was a mystery to this bruise that was somehow connected to 'Time' – but feeling sleepy I quickly placed this crazy thought to the back of my mind and went to sleep. The next day I awoke still with the bruise and no pain.
Around 12 hours later, rushing about with my mind on other things, I accidently collided with some force into a wheel chair – right where my bruise was! Suddenly my bruise began to throb like hell – “Ah”, I said to myself, “That’s how I got the bruise”. Really strange – but true. ;)

[truthseekerdan]

Thought that this video will make a good addition here. :love:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bp_fK5fP0BU

[king anthony]

So, that would mean that time is completely subjective, and relative to the observer. AND that the 'speed' at which time passes is also...

...why mathematical physicists are baffled. I mean, it seems that the math is breaking down.
...science does not want to open the floodgates to the study of Consciousness. I feel that...

"Time' is an illusion; however, not in the holographic sense as it has been made out to be. It is about perception and the foundation of perception is emotion, which are 'chemicals' within the 'bio-computer' of the body.

The state of reality is 'real' and the now is fact - have you (or anyone) noticed how time and the perception of things in reality have recently quickened?

I did write of these things (not mathematically) when I was round nine years of age; however, not using the same vocabulary as now. I still have (somewhere) a few pieces of paper I wrote these things on; I once recall showing them to a professor of mine many years ago. Back on topic.

Mathematics, despite what mainstream society believes, is but a language; one I admittedly do not know well. Some, mostly those in the mathematics profession, make claim that mathematics is the 'key to unlocking all things' - not true, as it can only describe certain things.

Mathematics is limited by itself, in that, it attempts to equate something that cannot be equated. As 'evolution' (not Darwinian) may explain, through snapshots of a process, change; mathematics, may describe (through its language) a process of outcome.

Mathematics is being reduced (breaking down) because it attempts to 'speak' thought outside of it limits. Thought is not mathematical, as thought is consciousness and consciousness being perception - which is emotion.

[kenkyushiryo]

~
Around 12 hours later,~

a glitch in the matrix?

[kenkyushiryo]

just saw this now too - :cool:

may i present to you all the inventor of standard time:

Sir Sandford Fleming

video link:
http://www.histori.ca/minutes/minute.do?id=10182

Synopsis

The Nineteenth Century was the Age of Steam, an era when technical innovators like Sandford Fleming transformed the face of the industrial world and took on the stature of national heroes. This Historica Minute captures the energy and spirit of the dynamic chief engineer of the Canadian Pacific Railway who surveyed the first rail route across Canada, designed our first postage stamp, and successfully championed the Trans-Pacific telegraph cable which was laid from Vancouver to Australia. Fleming also achieved lasting international fame as the "Father of Standard Time." Before Sandford Fleming invented Standard Time, 12 p.m. in Kingston was twelve minutes later than 12 p.m. in Montréal and thirteen minutes before 12 p.m. in Toronto. Noon was the time when the sun stood exactly overhead. This was the way clocks were set all over the world. In the old days, locally-based time made sense to everyone, but with the introduction of railways, it became highly inconvenient and inefficient. Imagine traveling across the country by train. At every stop along the way, you would have to reset your time piece by the local clocks. Travelers sometimes carried a number of watches, or one with six different faces, each labeled with the name of a different city. It was also a nightmare for railway station-masters, who could not deal with train schedules based on local time. The result was chaos for a transcontinental railway.

For Sandford Fleming the solution to this problem was a universal system of time, that would not only work for Halifax and Victoria, but for Paris and New Delhi as well. He devised a world map divided into 24 Time Zones. Within each zone the clocks would indicate the same time, with a one hour difference between adjoining zones.

Fleming's idea was simple, straightforward, and practical, but it was new, and therefore difficult for people to accept. For years it was dismissed by governments and rejected by scientific societies. Fleming was even called a Communist for his "internationalist" notions, and reviled by some who believed that such interference with the nature of time was contrary to the will of God.

Fleming, however, was persistent and very persuasive in promoting his idea. Eventually he won official approval at the International Prime Meridian Conference in Washington, D.C., and Standard Time went into effect on January 1, 1885. It was a glorious achievement. Without Standard Time, modern life as we know it today would be an impossiblity.

[TimelessDimensions]

Did you know that the Hopi Indians do not use past tense or future tense in their language?

They do however talk about things as "manifested" or "un-manifested".

[Carmody]

The information I gathered over the past few weeks is, er interesting, to say the least.

Atomic structuring of vorticies, or the vortex of atomic structure that is made up of an 'inne' and an 'outie' of a minimum of two 2d waves. What I mean is that two 2d waves meet and one is at a different vibration and intersect with the other and thus at their meeting point they create a 'particle' and the particle has a inner spin and an outer spin and this balance out as a dual vortex. This is the Fibonacci aspect of the particles that make up an 'atomic structure' we call an atom.

The different vectors (sum total) is the actual particle thus the wave particle duality and all aspects of mass, electrical function, gravity, time,and..space. Quanta as the gap across two is the aspect of time. The vector sum differential value between the two particles. Thus it can be seen that only one pair of 2d waves are needed to create all known aspects of time, space, reality, etc.

I'm trying to figure out how to pace or start this as the final bits of information are potentially a bit disturbing.

It takes what we like to think of as the 'evil' in this world and pins it to the wall for all to see. To 'frame it' so to speak. And that can be a very powerful thing. However, improperly delivered it can create fear- instead. Which is what I'm trying to avoid. One must remember that if one 'sees' that certain things are real, things that may be uncomfortable as it brings dimensional beings into a 3d reality..then the rest is possible as well, and one is empowered with their own potentials in the same moment. This is very important to understand. Specifically that it is like coin one is given or shown. Try not to look at just the one side of it.

It takes all the esoteric lore, with no need to name or place it all (sum total), into a single basic point of a framework idea. It puts the alchemy and what it's supposed reasons to exist.... and what we know esoteric lore and what we know about reality function, and puts it all in one spot. Science, cutting edge physics, the whole lot of it.

I stumbled into it by accident when researching some of my own journeys or sojurns as an astral presence in different parts of the world. Either I was a rider in another being in these particular cases or I was 'out and about.'..and I had some, er ..'golem' type aspects to my presence. (seen by other humans) While researching why I might be in those areas of the planet ....I stumbled across a few things that practically knocked me out of my chair with what they were saying to me.

I believe parts of this information are known by some of the more deepset power structures on this planet (knowledge is power, etc) but not known by the general public in the ways I'm looking to communicate. I suspect it is not as well understood by many of the power structures in some ways as i'd like to deliver to you. What I mean is that many will have knowledge of some of the aspects... but not have the understanding to know what it means. It's 3 am here and I'm off for the moment.. more later.

[oceanz]

Quote from Carmody in the 'Time does not exist thread' http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?17054-TIME-DOES-NOT-EXIST-verified-my-previous-posts-today-by-BBC-NEWS/page2
Atomic structuring of vorticies, or the vortex of atomic structure that is made up of an 'inne' and an 'outie' of a minimum of two 2d waves. What I mean is that two 2d waves meet and one is at a different vibration and intersect with the other and thus at their meeting point they create a 'particle' and the particle has a inner spin and an outer spin and this balance out as a dual vortex. This is the Fibonacci aspect of the particles that make up an 'atomic structure' we call an atom.

http://science.nasa.gov/media/medialibrary/2011/05/04/twist_strip.jpg/image_full

Using the information that Carmody has presented and the picture above, my interpretation of time would be the lines orbiting the Earth would be the man made creation of a unit called "time". In the case of Earth, lets say 365 days.

The horizontal lines would be 'Past, Present, Future" and where they intersect the orbiting lines of "time" I would class as "Now".

So imagine more orbiting lines and horizontal lines and where they intersect would be "Now, now, now, now" infinite.

So at the smallest measurement of "time" the "Now" is you "Past, present and future".

Anyway, that's just my interpretation. (copy of my original post in Magnetic Time Vortex over Antartica).

[Bill Ryan]

http://www.platonia.com/paperback.jpg

From Julian Barbour's website:

http://platonia.com/books.html






In The End of Time, which is written both for the popular-science market and for scientists and philosophers, I argue that the apparent passage of time is an illusion.

If we could stand outside the universe and ‘see it as it is’, it would appear to be static. I arrive at this radical conclusion by considering the most basic structure of Einstein’s general theory of relativity and quantum mechanics. These are the two fundamental theories of physics, and both have been confirmed to exceptional accuracy within their respective domains of validity: large-scale phenomena for Einstein’s theory, microscopic phenomena for quantum mechanics.

They have, however, remarkably different structures. In particular, time is treated in completely different ways in the two theories. This presents a severe problem, since all serious workers in the field are convinced that the two theories must eventually be subsumed in a single over-arching theory. This will be the quantum theory of the universe (also called quantum gravity).

The finding of this theory presents many great difficulties, of which the ‘problem of time’ is perhaps the most severe. It seems that a choice has to be made between two irreconcilable notions of time. I argue that the only satisfactory solution is to abolish time altogether.

I outline a timeless quantum theory of the universe. This includes a proposed solution to one of the most intractable problems of physics: what is the origin of the so-called arrow of time? Why is it that all phenomena distinguish a common direction of time (i.e., why does entropy increase?) but the equations of physics are symmetric with respect to the direction of time?

The equations of physics allow not only the shattering of a cup that is dropped on the floor but also the re-assembly of the pieces. However, that is never observed. I believe that a theory of the universe should explain why entropy increases. In The End of Time, I suggest that a fundamental asymmetry in the space of all the possible structures of the universe could provide a basis for the arrow of time.

[mosquito]

One of the biggest problems we face in attempting to understand the idea of the non-existence of time is our language. In English we have about 17 different tenses/aspects (depending on how you classify them), so our language and indeed our thought processes are predicated on the existence of time, on cause and effect, on linearity and logic. Communicating and understanding the non-existence of time is therefore fraught with difficulties, and I'm not even going to attempt to do so ! My understanding of this comes largely through meditation, dreams and the use of entheogens. Something to ponder is the following quote from Werner Heisenberg :
"at the very small space-time level - ie at the level of magnitude of elementary partcles - space and time are in some strange way blurred, in such a way that within such minute time-spans, the very concepts before and after can no longer be properly defined. In a general sense, nothing can of course be said to have altrered as far as the actual structure of space-time is concerned, but we need to recognise the possibility that experiments into what goes on at the quite small space-time level will show that certain processes can take place in the opposite order to that which causality apparently requires."
Another thing to bear in mind is that if time really is an illusion, then there are some quite profound consequences for that sacred cow of Western philosophy - free will. And I can testify from personal experience that there are certain situations and events in one's life where one is being acted on by "the future" and, hard though it is to admit, one has no will, and just does what is required, almost like acting from a script. Please understand, I'm not saying this because I read it in a book, but because I've experienced it.
Great thread, thanks for all the insight ! Philip

[TimelessDimensions]

It is possible to experience multiple timelines simultaneously..

It's rather fun actually :)

[OnyxKnight]

There is only an "eternal now", that even itself could be turned into a state of no motion, no duration, if one was able to observe the universe from a non-subject area of the existing laws of physics and space/time that apply here.

Sort of, state of discontinuity.

[ghostrider]

everything evolves, the only difference between today and yesterday is the earth turned around on it's axis.

[Carmody]

The information I gathered over the past few weeks is, er interesting, to say the least.

Atomic structuring of vorticies, or the vortex of atomic structure that is made up of an 'inne' and an 'outie' of a minimum of two 2d waves. What I mean is that two 2d waves meet and one is at a different vibration and intersect with the other and thus at their meeting point they create a 'particle' and the particle has a inner spin and an outer spin and this balance out as a dual vortex. This is the Fibonacci aspect of the particles that make up an 'atomic structure' we call an atom.

The different vectors (sum total) is the actual particle thus the wave particle duality and all aspects of mass, electrical function, gravity, time,and..space. Quanta as the gap across two is the aspect of time. The vector sum differential value between the two particles. Thus it can be seen that only one pair of 2d waves are needed to create all known aspects of time, space, reality, etc.

I'm trying to figure out how to pace or start this as the final bits of information are potentially a bit disturbing.

It takes what we like to think of as the 'evil' in this world and pins it to the wall for all to see. To 'frame it' so to speak. And that can be a very powerful thing. However, improperly delivered it can create fear- instead. Which is what I'm trying to avoid. One must remember that if one 'sees' that certain things are real, things that may be uncomfortable as it brings dimensional beings into a 3d reality..then the rest is possible as well, and one is empowered with their own potentials in the same moment. This is very important to understand. Specifically that it is like coin one is given or shown. Try not to look at just the one side of it.

It takes all the esoteric lore, with no need to name or place it all (sum total), into a single basic point of a framework idea. It puts the alchemy and what it's supposed reasons to exist.... and what we know esoteric lore and what we know about reality function, and puts it all in one spot. Science, cutting edge physics, the whole lot of it.

I stumbled into it by accident when researching some of my own journeys or sojurns as an astral presence in different parts of the world. Either I was a rider in another being in these particular cases or I was 'out and about.'..and I had some, er ..'golem' type aspects to my presence. (seen by other humans) While researching why I might be in those areas of the planet ....I stumbled across a few things that practically knocked me out of my chair with what they were saying to me.

I believe parts of this information are known by some of the more deepset power structures on this planet (knowledge is power, etc) but not known by the general public in the ways I'm looking to communicate. I suspect it is not as well understood by many of the power structures in some ways as i'd like to deliver to you. What I mean is that many will have knowledge of some of the aspects... but not have the understanding to know what it means. It's 3 am here and I'm off for the moment.. more later.

The completion of that thought, as mentioned in this thread is:


'Who's Driving the Dreambus' thread in the Spirituality area

'Spirals Everywhere' as stated by Loki

'The Question of Lithium' in the man forum area

'Pyramid building Solved' in the archeology section

'Quantum Vs Newtonian' in the alternate science area


As an example (one of hundreds-to thousands of potential examples) of this specific point, I mention it as I link to a David Hammel site in one of the threads. I found an image presented by David. The image he is presenting is one of OLDER physics textobooks. A tiny bit in them that was removed.

In that bit from the older textbook was the clearly delivered thought that time and all associated phenomena, gravity, magnetism, voltage, etc, where all differential aspects of two particles in RELATION to one another and out side of that relational aspect, time, etc..fails to exist.

One dimension, no distinctions of any kind possible.

Two dimensions in relation to one another, can create vector and differential.

3d dimension is a reflection of the now of the 1 but as viewed as the discrete quanta steps of the paired 2d particles.

You find that the full aspects of this are all allowed for and indeed covered in the basic math..in Maxwell's full unedited works on Electromagnetism. When reading those threads you will find the information trail on how the editing of his works seemingly came about.

Eg, the Cone, a 2d shape. it has only two sides. Yet it appears to be 3d. It bridges the gap between 2d and 3d. It's function is mentioned in a thread of recent in the main section on the AI in as many as a few words (As indicators) by Interphase. I expanded on it. The 'arrow and the Cone', Interphase said.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?19902-Richard-Sauder-on-Red-Ice-Creations-AI-Machine-controls-Earth

Or, "the vector and the spiral".

David Hamell used giant cones to affect an antigravity device. These were made out of cement, believe it or not. They weighed tons.

The reason such 'uneducated men' can get so dang far down the road is that the basic concepts and executions of such ideas are absurdly simple, once the concepts are realized. The reason that alchemy is so heavily self editorializing and hidden is the same. Once the concepts are understood the physical execution of the ideas involved can be done by relatively simple means. The solutions do not require laboratories, physics degrees, lab coats, clipboards and thick glasses, or multi-billion dollar hardware...all that crap. None of that is required.

All that...that is a manifestation of pursuing things that are not specifically simplistic and fundamental. Those are technical refinements of minor channels of change and alteration.

Fundamentals.... do not require such giant complex houses of cards.

The usual deal: we go through immense amounts of complexity to find ourselves circling back around to the start with a different view.... and find that the answers we seek are actually --absurdly simple.

Your specific problem revolves around the mental growth and outlook of your 'self' and fellow 'human'.

For example. This was worked on by Walter Gerlach and Gabriel Kron, with regard to the mechanics of it and how it plays out. This became the Nazi WWII experiments and results, as reported in great depth and clarity by Joseph Farrell. In those works, Farrell describes live a test they did of a hand grenade sized (literally) device.

These devices, hand grenade sized ...had a power not that much less than a few thousand tons of TNT. One of those would wipe out a small town, in it's entirety. No radiation signature and not made out of radioactive materials - in the modern (design and execution) sense. We are talking about nano materials and nano alloys that are made in a specific way, is all. This has been around since the early 1940's. In the grander sense, this technology (and similar materials) has been around for thousands of years in the realm of alchemy.

The nano materials bridge the gap between quantum and Newtonian.

Your problem revolves not around the dangers of this type of physical manifestation of the divine, it revolves around your particular level of multi-dimensional manifestation ,and specifically --clarity on who and what you are.

The danger involved is that the mechanistic edifice we call a human, this duality critter, this physicality will be full of fear from the changes involved and will individually be a danger to the further manifestation of the collective or the concerned individual.

Basically, the idea of currently educated and current awareness of, example..the angst filled and bodily and mentally polluted 15 year or male of the human species. or anyone who has the mental development of such a outlook on existence. Ie, someone that is thoroughly mundane on their outlook..and confuses their fears with it ideas of what reality is. Meaning, the get a hold of such understandings and execute such devices and attempt to use them. What I'm trying to say is imagine 1 million religions or idealistic ground-pounder fundamentalists with the power that is beyond known atomic structures..in their hands.

What we have on our hands right now, is an education and conceptual gap that needs to be instilled in the masses in some fashion BEFORE such capabilities and considerations hit the general public.

At the same time, we appear to have something that is trying to hold all developments of any kind in humankind...completely back. To push humankind into a zero and even negative physiological and psychological state. To regress any progress in man (define progress, please. good luck). I'm not paranoid about these considerations as I should not be.

Paranoia is a bodily reaction to unknowns. So it may be good in fomenting thought and even action but... is it 'right' action and 'right' thought?

[Tony]

Dear All,

Doesn't time only relate to things... that change?

Two non-things that do not change are space and consciousness.

The space in front of you, does not change, does it?
The consciousness observing that space, does not change, does it?

Just wondered,
pie'n'eal

[Carmody]

Oh yes, P vs NP. It is core to this dilemma. The answer is that P=NP and also that P does not equal NP.

Both are true. I started to explain my understanding of how that is true..in another thread..but I can't remember what thread it is...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Prize_Problems

[Carmody]

Dear All,

Doesn't time only relate to things... that change?

Two non-things that do not change are space and consciousness.

The space in front of you, does not change, does it?
The consciousness observing that space, does not change, does it?

Just wondered,
pie'n'eal

Yes, but you are not a complete integrated consciousness in this space, are you?

Therefore ----change is your norm? However much such understandings and unfoldings complicates our 'lives', change is the only norm that brings the desire for unfolding and growth nearer to completion?

[king anthony]

Doesn't time only relate to things... that change?

Two non-things that do not change are space and consciousness.

The space in front of you, does not change, does it?
The consciousness observing that space, does not change, does it?

I say, the answers are known, for everything changes. Time is a "tool" of humankind, an "illusionary" tool therefore does not truly exist. For example, the measurement of time has meaning because many agree to it - the standard for this measurement has changed with either the perception of what the "tool" (time) was/is to represent or because another standard was wished (example to measure other types of changes).

I say, has it not been human arrogance and need that has clouded and confused the simple!? For what does it matter about "time" when the origins and "destiny" of "why" is not known, understood or accepted!?

[Tony]

Dear All,

Doesn't time only relate to things... that change?

Two non-things that do not change are space and consciousness.

The space in front of you, does not change, does it?
The consciousness observing that space, does not change, does it?

Just wondered,
pie'n'eal

Yes, but you are not a complete integrated consciousness in this space, are you?

Therefore ----change is your norm? However much such understandings and unfoldings complicates our 'lives', change is the only norm that brings the desire for unfolding and growth nearer to completion?

Totally correct...I still live in ignorance, but am working on it!

[ThePythonicCow]

Oh yes, P vs NP. It is core to this dilemma. The answer is that P=NP and also that P does not equal NP.

Both are true.
From the perspective of someone trained in mathematics, the above statements are, sorry to say, nonsense.

Neither is known to be true, and they are mutually exclusive. If one is true, the other is trivially false, for one is just the negation of the other.

I suspect you are speaking of something in another realm of understanding, probably a spiritual realm in which I am relatively clueless, but using this reference to the mathematics of complexity to give more weight to your point. From my perspective, far better trained in mathematics than in the spiritual, your statement makes no sense mathematically. It also conveys nothing to me in the spiritual realm, but that is rather to be expected, as I am difficult to communicate to in that realm.

[Carmody]

Oh yes, P vs NP. It is core to this dilemma. The answer is that P=NP and also that P does not equal NP.

Both are true.
From the perspective of someone trained in mathematics, the above statements are, sorry to say, nonsense.

Neither is known to be true, and they are mutually exclusive. If one is true, the other is trivially false, for one is just the negation of the other.

I suspect you are speaking of something in another realm of understanding, probably a spiritual realm in which I am relatively clueless, but using this reference to the mathematics of complexity to give more weight to your point. From my perspective, far better trained in mathematics than in the spiritual, your statement makes no sense mathematically. It also conveys nothing to me in the spiritual realm, but that is rather to be expected, as I am difficult to communicate to in that realm.

Thank your for the eloquently delivered challenge, Paul. I will endeavor to see if I can come up with the analogue that is required to clarify my point.

One immediate point is the quantum vs newtonian mathematical, conceptual, and integrational differentials that exist.

Yet, one is composed of the other. One is a subset of the superset.

it goes back to that line of mine, about: 'the harder the problem to solve, the more basic the mistake in the formulation of the question'.

Another point is that due to this, reality function has two discrete but integrated sets of rules. One is a subset of the superset.

This will follow through in the applicable mathematics, obviously.

One might even say then that the idea of the separateness of 1 vs 2 vs 3 vs 4, and so on, is one set of mathematical truths.

The superset says that they are not separate, even though at this level at which we are communicating here, they appear to be discrete 'wholly seperate' entities.

It says that the basis upon and of the idea of creating discreteness, that is fundamentally in error as a discrete exclusion identifier concept. however, not for the one view. IE, P not NP.

However the superset says that ultimately.... P=NP

As we head solely down the road of the idea, mathematically that P not NP is the sole operative, we loose track of the truth and even the existence of the superset. Basically the idea that separateness is all that there is. Math (As a human endeavor and enterprise and the people involved in it...is 'linear minded' and does not seem to have the specific connectivity to come to the realization of the superset.

In this realm of thinking and existing it is even possible that it will never get to that point of the superset... as it is a duality understanding or integration of differentials.

As first principles and premises go, that is what it would be saying.

To get into the deeper philosophies of math, yes, that may be doable. But I'm not sure that for this one, straying too far form the analogies presented above will help resolve the issue. The issue is core conceptual in nature. For a mathematician, it is the core thing surrounding the acceptance of duality in the individual that calls itself 'spiritual'.

The realization would come just as hard. ie the ego function and the physical edifice would both be shattered and reformed in the spiritual person. As far a s conceptual and mathematical realization, this would be a similar situation for the mathematician, no matter how unrelated it may seem. The crash would be at least as hard or equivalent to the spiritualist's total psychological teardown and reformation.

What did Gergori Perelman say when he was awarded the prize for solving the Poincaré conjecture?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/5274040.stm

Read carefully. :)

Either his seals and gaskets were fully blown before he figured it out or they were blown when he did.

To put a less eloquent spin on what his words were, for my purposes here, one could interpret his utterances as saying something akin to: "My friends and I have solved the secrets of the universe... and I really don't give a damn or need your Million Dollar prize".

So, it appears as if, the problem is deep inside. It is seemingly inside the mathematician, not the idea of mathematics. The conceptual basis of the launch of the person into the very idea of mathematics.

Same issue the spiritualist has. Same damned thing. Same dammed problem.

And indeed we find with regard to comments on Gregori:

"He has a different psychological make up, which makes him see life differently" John Ball, University of Oxford


My.

Point.

Exactly.

The fault is not in the math. The fault is in fundamental creation of the mathematical structure by the observation point called a human.

[king anthony]

Post 24 (in part)


Mathematics, despite what mainstream society believes, is but a language; one I admittedly do not know well. Some, mostly those in the mathematics profession, make claim that mathematics is the 'key to unlocking all things' - not true, as it can only describe certain things.

Mathematics is limited by itself, in that, it attempts to equate something that cannot be equated. As 'evolution' (not Darwinian) may explain, through snapshots of a process, change; mathematics, may describe (through its language) a process of outcome.

Mathematics is being reduced (breaking down) because it attempts to 'speak' thought outside of it limits. Thought is not mathematical, as thought is consciousness and consciousness being perception - which is emotion.

[ThePythonicCow]

As we head solely down the read of the idea, mathematically that P not NP is the sole operative, we loose track of the truth and even the existence of the superset. Indeed, and I am far down that road ;).

I prefer to think of things as levels of organization, in which the higher orderings do not, cannot, violate the laws of the lower orders, but in which the higher orders do give order and purpose to the lower orders. This is the essential "solution" to the paradox of the Second Law of Thermodynamics. That Second Law states that structure dissipates, yielding over time to increasing random chaos (aka "entropy".) For an isolated system, meaning in my view isolated from the forces of higher orderings, this is true - entropy increases inexorably. But there are no perfectly isolated systems. The higher orderings, giving purpose to the seeming randomness, are pervasive.

[Carmody]

As we head solely down the read of the idea, mathematically that P not NP is the sole operative, we loose track of the truth and even the existence of the superset. Indeed, and I am far down that road ;).

I prefer to think of things as levels of organization, in which the higher orderings do not, cannot, violate the laws of the lower orders, but in which the higher orders do give order and purpose to the lower orders. This is the essential "solution" to the paradox of the Second Law of Thermodynamics. That Second Law states that structure dissipates, yielding over time to increasing random chaos (aka "entropy".) For an isolated system, meaning in my view isolated from the forces of higher orderings, this is true - entropy increases inexorably. But there are no perfectly isolated systems. The higher orderings, giving purpose to the seeming randomness, are pervasive.

And this takes you straight to:

Yang–Mills existence and mass gap, and

Navier–Stokes existence and smoothness, and

you add in the CORRECT AND FULL Maxwell's theorem..which states asymmetrical, elastic, therefore resonant and manipulable...

Then you find thermodynamics is easily violated and shifted about in a totally controlled/controllable manner.

Which is what thousands of people have been screaming from the rooftops for years and years.

Recall that JP Morgan and what he is connected to actively and directly modified Maxwell's works and made a mess out of the following 100+ years of mathematics.

He set it up so the that thermodynamics could never be violated as a rule set goes. However, we find that thousands of free energy researchers and the spiritualists show that this view is wholly incorrect-malignantly so.

One should look at this a bit more closely. Morgan actively promoted, with his connections and companies, etc.. he promoted a mathematician as "gods gift", symmetrizing Maxwell equations....and then paid for every single textbook he could find in the USA to be changed, at all levels. Libraries, universities, collections, everywhere.

I myself have seen it done. I've seen books that explained that Einstein actually HAD a delivered unified field theory that was ENGINEERABLE (as he had gone back to mechanical analogs) and he delivered it to a Russian conference in 1927. It is now nearly impossible to find mention of this event or the formulations. I've seen those books disappear from libraries. (in one specific personal case)

example: one of the most famous men in mathematics and science.. creates a formulation, one that is 'not viable' (According to what we've been told). Yet we cant really find it in his records.

Whut up wit dat?

[ThePythonicCow]

Whut up wit dat?
Yes - big science gets corrupted, as does big religion, big politics, big business, big ...

But lumping big science in with honest science is about as helpful as lumping big religion in with honest spirituality.

[guayabal]

"Chuck Norris doesn't wear a watch....
HE decides what time it is"

[oceanz]

Time does not exist is perhaps why visitors to the island of Tonga have trouble adjusting and get frustrated:


Tonga has it's own approach to time. Today may mean tomorrow and half an hour maybe more like two hours or in some cases two days or even a week.

For the traveler this may take a bit of adjusting to, but remember you are on holiday so just relax and go with it.

Big occasions like a street festival maybe changed from lets say Monday the 14th to Tuesday the 15th just on the 13th without much consultation and although you may not know that the times have changed the rest of the Kingdom does, I like to call this the coconut grape vine. So the village meeting that was said to start at 7 o'clock may in fact start at 8:30 and you maybe there at 7 but everyone else will be there at around 8:30. (9 o,clock)

Time in Tonga is not very important at all, people are important, food is important but time is not.

http://www.eua-island-tonga.com/Tongan-Culture.html