Does anyone know how to protect electronics from a massive solar flare?

[Davidallany]

All I know is that there is a construct called Faraday's cage


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t23iXhEiQUc

[truthseekerdan]

You might also try an old microwave oven for small electronics. Doesn't mean that it's going to work 100%, it depends on the severity of the CME. We might all fry... ;)

JMHO

[gardunk]

it can be as simple as a metal trash can that has a grounding wire on it and it is inverted and you put electronic equipment in it along w batteries etc

[Davidallany]

Do you close the lid before inverting?

[Dennis Leahy]

I think it is valuable to ask for this info, but depending on the duration and intensity of a massive CME from a solar flare, it may knock out the communication infrastructure (satellites, internet, radio stations, TV stations, etc.) It might be valuable info for protecting self-contained units, like walkie-talkies, maybe "ham" radio sets?

Dennis

[firstlook]

there is evidence that the very best EMP shields would be alternating layers of steel and aluminum or copper, with an insulating material separating the layers of metal. (This is how many electromagnetically shielded buildings are actually constructed.)


http://www.futurescience.com/emp/emp-protection.html

[John Parslow]

Hello Daviddallany

Can you be more specific about what you would like to protect electronics from?

Best regards. JP :cool:

Reading other's posts here it looks like you want protection against an EMP see link for an idea ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWjT0Bh_KZ8&feature=related

All the best. JP :cool:

[gardunk]

yes you must make sure the lid is sealed and the grounding wire is like a lightning rod in that the energy flows thru and into the earth

[Ahkenaten]

If you intend to re-use a microwave oven to protect small equipment you must be careful to clip off the electrical cord at the back of the appliance, otherwise the electromagnetic wave will enter the oven through the cord. And I would seal off the stub with some heavy duty black electrical tape to insulate the copper wire inside from the open air, as well.

[Davidallany]

Can you be more specific about what you would like to protect electronics from?

From a massive solar flare.

[str8thinker]

Now's the time to pick up old microwave ovens for a song.

Here are 2 more threads which talk about protecting electronics:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?742
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?12956

[TimelessDimensions]

wear a tin-foil hat?

[Davidallany]

wear a tin-foil hat?
My question is how to protect electronics. I am not 3CPO ;)

[TimelessDimensions]

LMAO! hehe a faraday cage should do it.

But it is wiser to prepare your heart for the possibility that you may one day have to let go of all electronic goods.

In the meanwhile The Internet is only a tool for you learning who and what you truly are.

Any technology is just a temporary tool useful for your learning for a short duration of time ;)

[Davidallany]

Exactly, how can form exist when it's nature is emptiness. There is no eye, nor there an object that the eye sees.

[Tony]

Has anyone constructed a faraday cage?

Could a truck with a metal rear cabin be used?

Though the panels will probably be made of aluminium, the basic structure,
might have a steel frame, which could be steel bar re-enforced.

Would it have to be earthed?
Would it have to be buried in the ground?

I like to know such things!!!

pie'n'eal

[perfectresonance]

A Faraday cage or Faraday shield is an enclosure formed by conducting material or by a mesh of such material

--- Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage)

So, by definition you need a box or a mesh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesh) of some conductive (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conductive) material.

Much more intriguing a question is: Why?

As far as I know, no, you don't earth it, and no, it doesn't need to be underground to be a Faraday cage.

However, rooms that are to be shielded from ALL sorts of different types of radiation are often deep underground not because it is a requirement for a Faraday cage, but because it shields OTHER types of interference.

[Ammit]

From what I have read, yes it is earthed, and any metal enclosed item will do, shed, file cabinet, tobaco tin anything. No it will not need to be underground.

To test such a device, place a tuned radio inside along with a mobile phone, close the door and the radio should soon go silent and you should not be able to call the mobile and get a ring tone from it.

Ammit

[Some Bloke]

If you like odd electrical stuff check this out,
http://tesladownunder.com/

[Tony]

Ok, so far so good!

Now I need some lead and a bottle iodine!!
Anyone made a Tesla coil?

[Ammit]

Pin`n`eal, In the uk we have earth straps connected to our water pipes, an old file cabinet connected to one of the earthing straps should work in the same was as poking a copper rod into the ground. I have a metal shed in my garden which is also faraday prepped.

[Tony]

Pin`n`eal, In the uk we have earth straps connected to our water pipes, an old file cabinet connected to one of the earthing straps should work in the same was as poking a copper rod into the ground. I have a metal shed in my garden which is also faraday prepped.

Dear Ammit,

Now you sound smart!!

[Tony]

Ok, so I've got the spiritual worked out now it's time for the physical.
Has anyone made a magnet motor?

[Ammit]

Oh Ta.

Just make sure that what ever you put into your cage is isolated from the walls of the cage. In my file cabinet I have made plastic shelves. On these I have a Psion, a kindle full of books, a solar charger which is designed to charge or run all 3 items and a radio.

They all are wrapped in silver foil and sat in the middle of the cage on plastic shelves.

If ever needed and it works, then great, if it fails then atleast I tried.......

Never made a magnet motor but have a windturbine 600w motor being prepped for the cage.

[Tony]

A Faraday cage or Faraday shield is an enclosure formed by conducting material or by a mesh of such material

--- Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage)

So, by definition you need a box or a mesh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesh) of some conductive (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conductive) material.

Much more intriguing a question is: Why?

As far as I know, no, you don't earth it, and no, it doesn't need to be underground to be a Faraday cage.

However, rooms that are to be shielded from ALL sorts of different types of radiation are often deep underground not because it is a requirement for a Faraday cage, but because it shields OTHER types of interference.

Actual knowledge is a wonderful thing. If needed, it will help others.
At this moment I do not know who to believe, so I have to take it all
in 100%, then sift it all out.

There are a lot of people getting upset and fearful. Us toughies do not
mind as we are a bit thick!!!! Well ,I am!!

Radiation,,,hmm...I'm gonna need another spade!

Thanks anyway,
pie'n'eal

[Ammit]

Pie`n`eal, research it bud, there is plenty of tuts on youtube and test results too.

[Providence]

I bought 2 large galvanized trash containers with tight fitting lids, lined them with cardboard and insulating material and added a heavy copper braided ground cable which runs straight to a good ground (some say that you don't need the ground cable because it might actually intensify the EMP effects??). I don't know if it actually works other than the tests of using a radio and cell phone, but I think the concept is sound. Also, old microwaves are good make-shift faraday cages. Just cut the cord and put your electronic devices inside. The same protective shielding that keeps the microwaves in, also protects from outside waves getting in.

[Steven]

Has anyone constructed a faraday cage? Yes, I have made 3 so far. All with different purpose.

Could a truck with a metal rear cabin be used? Not really, because the cage or box need to be as uniform as possible, any cracks, parts does leak EMP in the inside.

Though the panels will probably be made of aluminium, the basic structure,
might have a steel frame, which could be steel bar re-enforced. Aluminum have good quality because of its stability (hardly oxydable) and it is light.

Would it have to be earthed? The cage yes, the component in the cage no. The electronic components can not touch the metal box., it has to be electrically isolated from the cage.

Would it have to be buried in the ground? It is way much better if you can since EMP are absorb by the Earth, but tend to bounce on metal. Way much better. Personnally, I woundl't bother making a cage if I coudlnt put it below the surface.

I like to know such things!!!

pie'n'eal

Namaste, Steven

[Tony]

Has anyone constructed a faraday cage? Yes, I have made 3 so far. All with different purpose.

Could a truck with a metal rear cabin be used? Not really, because the cage or box need to be as uniform as possible, any cracks, parts does leak EMP in the inside.

Though the panels will probably be made of aluminium, the basic structure,


might have a steel frame, which could be steel bar re-enforced. Aluminum have good quality because of its stability (hardly oxydable) and it is light.

Would it have to be earthed? The cage yes, the component in the cage no. The electronic components can not touch the metal box., it has to be electrically isolated from the cage.

Would it have to be buried in the ground? It is way much better if you can since EMP are absorb by the Earth, but tend to bounce on metal. Way much better. Personnally, I woundl't bother making a cage if I coudlnt put it below the surface.

I like to know such things!!!

pie'n'eal

Namaste, Steven

Steven,

That was really helpful, thanks.

Do you know anything about magnet motors? I'm wondering about using a washing machine drum and spindle.
Also, have you tried a Tesla circuit and coil? I've had failures so far, probably need good germanium diodes!

Thank again.

Pie'n'eal .........when I hear Namaste, it always sound like, have-a nice-day!!!

[Mad Hatter]

Hi Pie'n'eal,

A useful faraday cage can be made by plywood lining a steel shipping container then bury it in the side of a hill somewhere.

Tesla coils although a lot of fun to build really are not very practical for much else besides scaring your friends and getting a handle on the theory of shuffling voltages around in an asymetric(open) circuit.

You might be better off getting a deep cycle battery(s). To charge them you can get a 12volt alternator from a car and set that up to be driven by an old bicycle suitably modified. (For when the solar panels don't work at night or the wind isn't blowing to spin a fan.) A good quality inverter to turn the DC into AC may prove useful as well.

John Bedini has done some interesting work with magnetic systems. There are kits available for using one battery to charge 3 others, although expensive. You will find a fair amount of info and some great pointers on this site in the alt energy threads.

As an aside I would love someone to thread copper through kevlar clothing that motorbike riders wear as an alternative to leathers. Just to see the look of shock on a goon's face when his taser is entirely ineffective....;)

cheers

[Steven]

Steven,

That was really helpful, thanks.

Do you know anything about magnet motors? Yes. I am about to build a Bedini's generator soon using strong magnet (neodymium). I'de like to produce a 5KW/hrs system. I calculated an investment of 8000$. Batteries are the expensive part of the system.

I'm wondering about using a washing machine drum and spindle.
Also, have you tried a Tesla circuit and coil? I have never tried it. It seems cool, but not really useful for the application I am interested in. I've had failures so far, probably need good germanium diodes!

Thank again.

Pie'n'eal .........when I hear Namaste, it always sound like, have-a nice-day!!! Lol, that's the spirit! It only means I see the light in you :)

Namaste (Have-a-nice-day), Steven

[norman]

I think it's not necessary to earth a Faraday cage.

Also, if it's earthed it will be a lightning magnet. Millions of volts passing through it will generate significant electromagnetics within it.

[Steven]

I think it's not necessary to earth a Faraday cage. If its against EMP, yes.

Also, if it's earthed it will be a lightning magnet. Millions of volts passing through it will generate significant electromagnetics within it. Not if it is below the Earth surface.

Namaste, Steven

[Tony]

Hi Pie'n'eal,

A useful faraday cage can be made by plywood lining a steel shipping container then bury it in the side of a hill somewhere.

Tesla coils although a lot of fun to build really are not very practical for much else besides scaring your friends and getting a handle on the theory of shuffling voltages around in an asymetric(open) circuit.



You might be better off getting a deep cycle battery(s). To charge them you can get a 12volt alternator from a car and set that up to be driven by an old bicycle suitably modified. (For when the solar panels don't work at night or the wind isn't blowing to spin a fan.) A good quality inverter to turn the DC into AC may prove useful as well.

John Bedini has done some interesting work with magnetic systems. There are kits available for using one battery to charge 3 others, although expensive. You will find a fair amount of info and some great pointers on this site in the alt energy threads.

As an aside I would love someone to thread copper through kevlar clothing that motorbike riders wear as an alternative to leathers. Just to see the look of shock on a goon's face when his taser is entirely ineffective....;)

cheers

Dear Hatter,
Brilliant!!!! Am ordering magnets tomorrow!!!
I love the taser idea......though for spiritual reasons, I'd like God to drop a rather
large marsh mellow on hid head!

[panopticon]

G'day pie 'n' eal,

We have a sea container with shelving made from wood.
We wrap everything in the container in metal wire (like window screen aka flywire) and don't have anything touching each other nor the sides of the container.

We have an airX 12v (http://windenergy.com/products/air/air-x) stored with suitable electrical wire and connectors. We chose this as it has an internal regulator for battery storage.
Gel long life deep cycle batteries are rotated with some in storage for later use as well as an inverter.
I am unsure as to whether our solar panels will be usable post event (due to EMP damage) but they are there for our present use and we have a regulator in storage just in case.

For power generation I might suggest a modified generator running on woodgas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_gas_generator).
This can also be used for powering a car/truck (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_gas).
There's heap of excellent sites on the subject such as: http://woodgas.nl/

Remember that after an EMP electrical components that weren't put in storage will in all likelihood not work so older vehicles would be a better option (no electronic ignition etc).

There's heaps more information on this site and others so "look and ye shall find".

Kind Regards, :yo:
Panopticon

[Davidallany]

Hi Tony.
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?17095-Does-anyone-know-how-to-protect-electronics-from-a-massive-solar-flare

May the force be with you.

[Tony]

Davidallany,
That was really fascinating, thanks!

Tony

[Dawn]

I suddenly had the urge to study up on faraday cages and to protect my various electronic devices ASAP. This is a timely thread for me. While visiting my local thrift store today I had the sudden inspiration that microwave ovens might be ready made and great so I checked with a Google search.... Sure enouth... they are some of the best and easiest sources for protecting laptops and small electronics that will fit inside and they won't break your pocketbook.
Some of the best material on the subject came from this website: http://apps.onesecondafter.com/Forum/message/index.cfm?topicgroupID=10569&topicID=15495&messageID=46444&start=0&isLast=0

Here is a quote from a part of it: "Unless a person is an electrical engineer with a lot of experience in high-frequency shielding, they are likely to make basic mistakes in trying to construct their own shielded enclosure for nuclear EMP. On the other hand, a professionally-designed faraday cage that can be conveniently opened and closed is readily available in the form of the chamber of a microwave oven. The chamber of a microwave oven is shielded against both magnetic radiation from the transformer and high-frequency electromagnetic radiation from the strong microwave field. It is proven to work, as is evidenced from the fact that a person right outside an operating microwave oven isn't cooked, or even slightly warmed up. Microwave ovens have been around for so long that you can use an old one that you already own or buy one on the used market. Just remember to cut off the power cord."

[Tane Mahuta]

Has anyone constructed a faraday cage?

Could a truck with a metal rear cabin be used?

Though the panels will probably be made of aluminium, the basic structure,
might have a steel frame, which could be steel bar re-enforced.

Would it have to be earthed?
Would it have to be buried in the ground?

I like to know such things!!!

pie'n'eal

Check out these links!!


http://searchsecurity.techtarget.com/definition/Faraday-cage

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-faraday-cage.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage


TT

[maddie]

Hi Tane, I made a very simple farady cage for batteries out of a heavy duty tinfoil bag, that frozen fruit comes in. I wrapped the batteries in bubble wrap then tin foil, then put them in the bag which zips up tight. there are many good sites as the ones that have been posted. the subject of earthing is a big one and so I went for simplicity.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

we are off the grid and so are looking at ways to cover our solar panels quickly and have the battery bank safe and secure. Any one with ideas???:help:

[Ron Mauer Sr]

Here is an inexpensive and readily available Faraday cage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoQZY1FtI3c&feature=player_embedded

[UFOphotos]

Some information that maybe is helpful: http://www.futurescience.com/emp/emp-protection.html

[GoodETxSG]

Yes sir I do, that was one of my Jobs... First of all you have to decide how large of an area you are going to shield. There is a company that sells a honeycomb/mesh like material that creates a Faraday Cage affect that you can use to build into infrastructure as well as EMP proof paint that works very well.

Also, go to an electronics repair store and get as many ESD (Electric Static Discharge) bags (Like your motherboard or network card come wrapped in.) You can also use those to put your small electronics in or cut them up and create a wall paper for the inside of a computer housing etc. Remember you have to have heat ventilation for electronics.

It all is situational and depends on what you need to protect. You match the materials to the scale of the sq footage, size and type of the assets you want to protect. We built and tested several solutions and they work quite nicely. The materials that state they are designed to protect against EMP's will work with Solar flares/charged particles... You must need to double down with the material and use mixtures.

I hope this helps. If you want the name of some of the companies you can Google them or email me offline and I will see where I have their info stored.

[RMorgan]

Hey david,

You know when a car gets struck by a lightning and the people inside don´t get fried? In this case, the car worked as a Faraday cage.

Basically, make a conductive metallic box and make sure the inside content get´s well isolated, like on top of a non conductive material, like rubber.

However, in case of a huge CME, it doesn´t matter if you save your electronics, since the whole electric grid would be destroyed and would take years to rebuild.

Anyway, this link might be useful to you:

http://www.jeddaniels.com/2007/faraday-cage-part-1/

In case of an emergency and for small items like a notebook, you can wrap them with several layers of PVC plastic film (that one used in kitchen) and then wrap it again with some layers of tin foil.

Cheers,

Raf.

[GoodETxSG]

We lab tested new and old Microwaves... they provided VERY little protection. Microwaves are smaller than 1cm that bounce around in the device and a mesh screen and thin combo of material keeps them from bouncing out... it’s still a good idea not to stand in front of the microwave and watch your food cook. Your eyes do not regulate pressure very well.

[GoodETxSG]

Hey david,

You know when a car gets struck by a lightning and the people inside don´t get fried? In this case, the car worked as a Faraday cage.

Basically, make a conductive metallic box and make sure the inside content get´s well isolated, like on top of a non conductive material, like rubber.

However, in case of a huge CME, it doesn´t matter if you save your electronics, since the whole electric grid would be destroyed and would take years to rebuild.

Anyway, this link might be useful to you:

http://www.jeddaniels.com/2007/faraday-cage-part-1/

In case of an emergency and for small items like a notebook, you can wrap them with several layers of PVC plastic film (that one used in kitchen) and then wrap it again with some layers of tin foil.

Cheers,

Raf.

EXTREMELY GOOD POINT! That is something we had contingencies for as well. The continuity of government and military secret infrastructure is prepped... civilians are on their own... unless they have added power generators and solar panel systems to their underground and EMP shielded cache of electronics. If you have these two things ready to dig up and hook up to your personal infrastructure you are good to go... but then you need to think of security measures and ways to hide that you have electricity...

[xbusymom]

print out everything into book form...
(that way you won't need to protect electronics)

[GoodETxSG]

print out everything into book form...
(that way you won't need to protect electronics)

Well, thats if all you are worried about is your EBooks... Wont help you protect your PC, HAM Radio, survival electornics and other things like creature comfort items

[RMorgan]

Hey david,

You know when a car gets struck by a lightning and the people inside don´t get fried? In this case, the car worked as a Faraday cage.

Basically, make a conductive metallic box and make sure the inside content get´s well isolated, like on top of a non conductive material, like rubber.

However, in case of a huge CME, it doesn´t matter if you save your electronics, since the whole electric grid would be destroyed and would take years to rebuild.

Anyway, this link might be useful to you:

http://www.jeddaniels.com/2007/faraday-cage-part-1/

In case of an emergency and for small items like a notebook, you can wrap them with several layers of PVC plastic film (that one used in kitchen) and then wrap it again with some layers of tin foil.

Cheers,

Raf.

EXTREMELY GOOD POINT! That is something we had contingencies for as well. The continuity of government and military secret infrastructure is prepped... civilians are on their own... unless they have added power generators and solar panel systems to their underground and EMP shielded cache of electronics. If you have these two things ready to dig up and hook up to your personal infrastructure you are good to go... but then you need to think of security measures and ways to hide that you have electricity...

Hey mate,

Even with power generators at home, how would you fuel them?

You would need gas, or diesel, or ethanol. Things would be chaotic and I´m sure you wouldn´t be able to just buy fuel at gas stations.

Even if you have stocked fuel, how about the noise? The lights? It would attract too much attention and you don´t want it.

Of course, you could have a solar panels on your roof, just to supply enough energy for the essencial things, like fridge, heating, some lamps, etc...

However, in this case, even your neighborhood wouldn´t be safe anymore.

Looters would be everywhere and you´ll basically be on your own. Solar panels are big and you can´t hide them. People would kill you to take them from you.

Anyway, we´ve lived without electricity for thousands of years. It wouldn´t hurt to go back to the roots if needed. When I say roots, I mean real roots, warrior roots.

In case of a huge CME, energy would be the smallest of our problems.

Just look at your neighbors. How many of them are so stupid and rude? In chaos, such kind of people become monsters. How many take prescription medications? How would they behave without their pills?

Are you from the US? How many guns do you guys have around? Imagine the dimension of the shootings...Everybody shooting each other for small things or even food...100 times worse than wild west movies.

This is one of the worst scenarios you can imagine. If the world runs out of electricity, we´ll go straight back to the cave times.

Cheers,

Raf.

[xbusymom]

print out everything into book form...
(that way you won't need to protect electronics)

Well, thats if all you are worried about is your EBooks... Wont help you protect your PC, HAM Radio, survival electornics and other things like creature comfort items

No, I meant if they can't get the eletronics back working for awhile... ya know, just in case you need the info and your mother board is fried...

I have a lot of ebooks and pdf's on gardening, survival rebuilding, homeopathy and first aid remedies, instructions on soapmaking from scratch, etc.

[GoodETxSG]

Hey david,

You know when a car gets struck by a lightning and the people inside don´t get fried? In this case, the car worked as a Faraday cage.

Basically, make a conductive metallic box and make sure the inside content get´s well isolated, like on top of a non conductive material, like rubber.

However, in case of a huge CME, it doesn´t matter if you save your electronics, since the whole electric grid would be destroyed and would take years to rebuild.

Anyway, this link might be useful to you:

http://www.jeddaniels.com/2007/faraday-cage-part-1/

In case of an emergency and for small items like a notebook, you can wrap them with several layers of PVC plastic film (that one used in kitchen) and then wrap it again with some layers of tin foil.

Cheers,

Raf.

EXTREMELY GOOD POINT! That is something we had contingencies for as well. The continuity of government and military secret infrastructure is prepped... civilians are on their own... unless they have added power generators and solar panel systems to their underground and EMP shielded cache of electronics. If you have these two things ready to dig up and hook up to your personal infrastructure you are good to go... but then you need to think of security measures and ways to hide that you have electricity...

Hey mate,

Even with power generators at home, how would you fuel them?

You would need gas, or diesel, or ethanol. Things would be chaotic and I´m sure you wouldn´t be able to just buy fuel at gas stations.

Anyway, we´ve lived without electricity for thousands of years. It wouldn´t hurt to go back to the roots if needed.

Cheers,

Raf.

True that, solar power is the best way to go... but ONLY GET Diesel Generators... There are all kinds of recopies to make your own diesel... and they work well. Regular Petro/Gasoline can be substituted as well but they will not run as well... if at all on your home gas brew. Long term storage of fuel is problematic even if you use the products that keep them from separating/breaking down. Besides, at some point you are going to run out. It all depends on how big the event is and how long you have to hold out for infrastructure repairs. Anyone that has a few transformers stored in a safe place will become instantly wealthy. But, the solar panel and diesel generator way is the best plan… store as much fuel as you can and learn to make more. It is not a fun thing to brew… but it works in a pinch.

[RMorgan]

Hey mate,

Accordingly to the scientists, if a really disastrous CME happens, it would take years, if not decades to repair.

It´s not the case of "Oh, we have no electricity, let´s fix it!".

How do you repair stuff if no one has electricity? How do you extract oil? How do you convert oil to fuel?

With no electricity, we have no oil or any kind of combustive fuel. With no fuel, we have no machines. With no machines, the world as we know it will end, probably gone forever.

Even solar power! How would we build solar panels with no energy? We could build them in small scale, using small fixed electricity plants, but how long would it take to supply a whole country with them?

You can try to sum up all variables involved here for ten years, and you still wouldn´t be able the calculate to dimensions of this problem.

Cheers,

Raf.

[GoodETxSG]

True, it would all depend on the SCALE of the CME… the unprepared masses will be quite screwed... those w/a homestead and the resources can last a generation in somewhat comfort. The CME of that magnitude would damage people’s chromosomes and organs so badly that having a powered up lap top would be the last thing on their minds. The studies of the different classes of solar flares that would take down a whole continent or the whole planet would kill millions with the charged particles shooting through their bodies and then the rest would die of disease from bad drinking water and lack of medications and food. Like I said it all depends on the scale of the event. If you have no preparation you have no chance. Kind of a Boy Scout motto... The event you are describing would dramatically reduce the worlds populating and place humanity back in the dark ages... accept for a breakaway society like the government/military types as well as civilians that were prepared... makes you wonder if that has happened before and that is what some of the old stories are about.

[RMorgan]

True, it would all depend on the SCALE of the CME… the unprepared masses will be quite screwed... those w/a homestead and the resources can last a generation in somewhat comfort. The CME of that magnitude would damage people’s chromosomes and organs so badly that having a powered up lap top would be the last thing on their minds. The studies of the different classes of solar flares that would take down a whole continent or the whole planet would kill millions with the charged particles shooting through their bodies and then the rest would die of disease from bad drinking water and lack of medications and food. Like I said it all depends on the scale of the event. If you have no preparation you have no chance. Kind of a Boy Scout motto... The event you are describing would dramatically reduce the worlds populating and place humanity back in the dark ages... accept for a breakaway society like the government/military types as well as civilians that were prepared... makes you wonder if that has happened before and that is what some of the old stories are about.


I agree my friend. There are several levels of CME.

However, the sun is becoming quite agitated lately and I believe that if one relatively big CME happens, others will follow.

So, maybe, if we´re lucky, it wont be a huge global life devastating CME, but several small ones, which could affect the whole world or just a part of it.

It´s just a matter of when. It could be tomorrow or it could be 100, 200 years from now.

Cheers,

Raf.

[GoodETxSG]

VERY Sharp and well thought out points RMorgan... very good questions.

NOTE: These are all things I had to go through in many of my Military Associated jobs and training... Some examples are the Military Emergency Management Systems training and NIMS FEMA Training. Training covered everything from Hurricanes, Mass Casualties, Epidemics, Meteor Strikes and other threats from space... geese and all other kinds of freaky scenarios. It was creepy stuff but nice to know someone is thinking of how to respond to it all. There were some DARK topics but mostly survival of civilization...

[DouglasDanger]

Hey mate,

Accordingly to the scientists, if a really disastrous CME happens, it would take years, if not decades to repair.

It´s not the case of "Oh, we have no electricity, let´s fix it!".

How do you repair stuff if no one has electricity? How do you extract oil? How do you convert oil to fuel?

With no electricity, we have no oil or any kind of combustive fuel. With no fuel, we have no machines. With no machines, the world as we know it will end, probably gone forever.

Even solar power! How would we build solar panels with no energy? We could build them in small scale, using small fixed electricity plants, but how long would it take to supply a whole country with them?

You can try to sum up all variables involved here for ten years, and you still wouldn´t be able the calculate to dimensions of this problem.

Cheers,

Raf.

We existed before electricity, this current version of electricity could be made again it is just a little over a hundred years old, ( a coil of copper wire with a magnet passed through or over it maybe magnets rotated in the copper coil, think electric generator but primativly) it would have to be an it is broke lets fix it attitude or convert back to an Amish life style choice. All this technology we have right now wasn't handed to us by some magical spagetti monster it was built on earth and could be built on earth again with time and patience. ;)

[RMorgan]

Hey mate,

Accordingly to the scientists, if a really disastrous CME happens, it would take years, if not decades to repair.

It´s not the case of "Oh, we have no electricity, let´s fix it!".

How do you repair stuff if no one has electricity? How do you extract oil? How do you convert oil to fuel?

With no electricity, we have no oil or any kind of combustive fuel. With no fuel, we have no machines. With no machines, the world as we know it will end, probably gone forever.

Even solar power! How would we build solar panels with no energy? We could build them in small scale, using small fixed electricity plants, but how long would it take to supply a whole country with them?

You can try to sum up all variables involved here for ten years, and you still wouldn´t be able the calculate to dimensions of this problem.

Cheers,

Raf.

We existed before electricity, this current version of electricity could be made again it is just a little over a hundred years old, ( a coil of copper wire with a magnet passed through or over it maybe magnets rotated in the copper coil, think electric generator but primativly) it would have to be an it is broke lets fix it attitude or convert back to an Amish life style choice. All this technology we have right now wasn't handed to us by some magical spagetti monster it was built on earth and could be built on earth again with time and patience. ;)

If chaos allows us to rebuild it...Things aren´t that simple.

As I´ve said before, in such a serious situation, you can´t expect people to behave politely, without food or water to supply the big urban centers.

Things get pretty messy.

Cheers,

Raf.

[mountain_jim]

I live pretty remotely, and have a gravity-fed spring for water, which I love. I realize if a nuke plant goes or whatever that may not stay good.

I have a mountain stream that has enough flow and drop to power a micro-hydropower system, but my house/land is not defensible (too many ways to hide and approach and such) and I would not be able to hide the fact I had power, so I have not invested in that.

edit: I also have not researched whether you can protect such a system's electronics from a major EMP pulse.

I have prepared to live awhile without electriciity, though I have not yet acquired a solar oven. I have a book on all the edible wild plants in my area, to supplement stores.

I tend to rely on the fact (edit - belief :) ) that I was led to be where I am, and if it's time for my container to go, I believe I have enough faith and understanding in what comes next to accept that.

I had believed a microwave with cord cut would work for CME small-electronics protection, after reading this thread I see that's not a sure thing.

[music]

You might also try an old microwave oven for small electronics. Doesn't mean that it's going to work 100%, it depends on the severity of the CME. We might all fry... ;)

JMHO

With the power cord removed

[Ammit]

I have a metal shed, I have laid metal on the floor and covered it for my comfort. The doors have an over lapping beading between them to ensure the gap is conductive, the shed is grounded with a copper earthing pole close by and all connected with big gauge copper wire.

I have rubber blocks that I can put my items onto.

Nothing must touch the metal of the protective enclosure..

[Magnus]

Wouldn't it be ideal to put electronics inside a waterproof faraday box made out of stainless steel, and then bury it in deep earth or maybe weigh it down to the bottom of a lake?

[GoodETxSG]

Here are some old links I found on my old PC. I updated it not to long before I retired that PC. Some of this research may be worth a little of your time. It may give you ideas on shielding no matter how small or large the scale is of your shielding project.

EMF/RF, Magnetic Field and Radiation Shielding



· http://www.best-deal.com/search/land...FUvDtgodUik12w



· http://www.bioelectricshield.com/?gc...FaVdTAod1l4C0g



· http://www.leadertechinc.com/?_kk=EM...FSdjTAod1CA2jg



· http://quwave.com/?gclid=COnev93u6q8CFYRgTAodVyxtzw



· http://www.mgchemicals.com/products/shielding.html



· http://www.radmeters.com/Shielding-paint-1-litre.html



· http://electricsense.com/1299/cell-p...-to-your-home/



· http://emfsafetystore.com/



· http://www.livspace.com.au/contents/...ilspaints.html



· http://www.safelivingtechnologies.ca...aint_HSF54.htm



· http://www.lessemf.com/paint.html



· http://vibesup.com/store/cell-computer-emf-c-70.html



· http://www.bioelectricshield.com/?gc...FQLktgodQgQwCg



· http://ezinearticles.com/?EMFs---The...ger&id=1200752



· http://vibesup.com/store/black-tourm...ell-p-385.html



· http://www.electrical-sensitivity.in...lingAids4.html



· http://www.earthclinic.com/CURES/emf.html



· http://www.lessemf.com/emf-shie.html



· http://www.lessemf.com/mag-shld.html



· http://www.lessemf.com/plastic.html EMF Window tint/shield



· http://www.emfcenter.com/shieldng.htm



· http://educate-yourself.org/lte/emfs...g12apr08.shtml



· http://www.emfservices.com/emf-shielding.htm



· http://www.emishielding.com.au/Under...Materials.html



· http://www.advancemag.com/



· http://www.parker.com/portal/site/PA...&vgnextfmt=EN#



· GOOGLE results of these searches: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&o...iw=927&bih=448



· GOOGLE results of these searches: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&b...ed=0CGoQ1QIoAQ



· Google Results; Magnetic Shielding: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&b...ed=0CGsQ1QIoAg



· Google Results: RF Shielding: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&b...ed=0CGkQ1QIoAA



· Google Results: EMF shield fabric: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&b...ed=0CGoQ1QIoAQ

[GoodETxSG]

You might also try an old microwave oven for small electronics. Doesn't mean that it's going to work 100%, it depends on the severity of the CME. We might all fry... ;)

JMHO

With the power cord removed

Very little protection in actual LAB testing using GMRS Radios placed in the Microwave, it is not a true Faraday Cage, adding a ESD Bag to the radio and coating the inside of the Microwave with EMF Paint worked well... but you could do this withount a bulky microwave as a base to start building on...

[Carmen]

Bury them! Four foot of earth above will protect electronic equipment from solar flares.

[GoodETxSG]

Charged particles from certain level CME's will penetrate hundreds of feet into the ground depending on the strata... crystaline granite helps but just a few feed under common top soil is no good.

[dddanieljjjamesss]

Brotha, you are the technology.
And I wouldn't be trying to protect oneself.
Ride the vibe, open your mind!

"The mountains and the canyons started to tremble and shake.
As the children of the sun began to awake."

~Led Zeppelin

[pyrangello]

good stuff keep the info coming

[GoodETxSG]

You want an updated reason to pay attention to some of this shielding tech for your electronics?

Monday, May 14, 2012
Latest Neocon Terror Propaganda: Electromagnetic Pulse 'E-Bombs'

Watch out for Al Qaeda 'E-Bombs
Click to Enlarge
Brit Dee, Contributor
Activist Post

Yet another potential danger has been added to the ever-growing and increasingly absurd list of supposed terror threats - the "E-Bomb".

An "E-bomb" is a weapon designed to be detonated in the upper atmosphere, and which emits a strong electromagnetic pulse. British Defence Secretary Phillip Hammond, speaking today at a conference in London attended by the US Assistant Defence Secretary, warned that terrorists or "rogue states" could use such a device to devastate Britain's infrastructure.

The E-bomb, if detonated some 500 miles above the Earth, would apparently take out satellites, radar and the National Grid with 'devastating' results. Key military installations, transport systems, power and water supplies would also be hit.

Hostile entities may already be in possession of some form of an E-bomb, Ministry of Defence officials warned earlier this month - though there appears to be no actual evidence to support such alarming speculation.

It seems implausible that lone terrorists or localised terror networks would be capable of developing such a device on their own, or gaining access to one - let alone having the ability to launch one 500 miles into the upper atmosphere.




Whilst an E-bomb could feasibly be constructed and launched by a well-funded state (or "rogue state", as our political leaders call those countries belligerently resistant to Western imperialism), we are not provided with any details about which nation may be trying to do so.

It seems reasonable to assume that Hammond's allusion to "rogue states" includes Iran; if we were to believe Western propaganda, the Iranian government is currently the biggest threat to world peace. If the West had any actual evidence that Iran is planning to develop or actively working on such a device, however, it is almost certain that we would have been told about it. Such evidence would have been quickly exploited in support of US, Israeli and British anti-Iranian rhetoric, especially in light of the scant evidence for an Iranian nuclear weapons program.

Even if Iran did have an E-bomb, its deployment would make absolutely no strategic sense. Detonating an E-bomb would make as little sense for Iran as their use of a nuclear missile - another weapon the Iranians do not possess and, despite the assertions of our leaders, a weapon they have repeatedly stated they are not developing. Use of an E-bomb or a nuke by Iran, or any other "rogue state", against Western or Israeli targets, would simply be suicidal.

The conference at which Phillip Hammond discussed the E-bomb threat is being hosted by the US-based Electric Infrastructure and Security Council (EIS) and the Henry Jackson Society.

The Henry Jackson Society is a British "thinktank", populated by Neocons and advocating "liberal interventionism" - newspeak for the bombing and takeover of foreign countries, in the name of peace, to secure geopolitical objectives.

One glance at the organisation's membership list settles any doubt about its true imperial nature. It counts amongst its patrons the former head of MI6 Sir Richard Dearlove, former director of the CIA James Woolsey, as well as arch-Neocons and Project For A New American Century members, Richard Perle and William Kristol.

The Electric Infrastructure and Security Council is an organisation that claims to help "coordinate U.S. and international infrastructure protection against electromagnetic threats".

Its chairman and CEO is a man named Avi Schnurr; Schnurr founded the Israel Missile Defense Association, whose website hypes the supposed threat to Israel from Iranian, Syrian and Palestinian missiles.

The conference is therefore clearly working to a Neocon and Zionist agenda. Fear is being perpetuated with the intention of isolating potential threats to Israel, whilst securing further funding and protection for the Jewish state. Yet more money will be generated for the Western/Israeli military-industrial complex, yet more of our taxes diverted to private security companies and weapon manufacturers.

That the British government was represented at today's conference is unsurprising, considering the number of leading British politicians who support the Neocon and Zionist ideology and agenda. Phillip Hammond's predecessor as Defence Secretary, Dr. Liam Fox, had to resign last year after the exposure of illegal business deals connected to future military action against Iran.

Fox and his friend and unofficial adviser Adam Werrity set up the Neocon front organisation The Atlantic Bridge, whilst Werrity's funding came from wealthy Jewish businessmen, associated with strongly pro-Israel lobby groups such as the British Israel Communications and Research Centre. The pair attended Zionist conferences, sometimes joined by Britain's ambassador to Israel Matthew Gould, and even held unofficial meetings with members of the Mossad in Israel.
Former British ambassador and whistleblower Craig Murray said that a trusted source told him that “co-ordinating with Israel and the US on diplomatic preparation for an attack on Iran was the subject of all these meetings”.
This article first appeared at ResistRadio.com
Brit Dee's ResistRadio.com is an independent media website approaching global news, politics and conspiracy theory from a radical, but critical and rational perspective.

[seko]

Here is a video where Professor Paul Cannon, Fellow Royal Academy of Engineering is talking about being prepared for a possible solar storm.


A space weather expert speaks on Thursday about a Royal Academy of Engineering study urging the government to be aware of the effects a solar superstorm may have on the UK. Paul Cannon from the study group says 'there will be a challenge for the UK' when such a storm occurs, but that 'it will not be cataclysmic'. Solar superstorms are periodic blasts of radiation and high-energy particles from the sun and can damage electrical networks


http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/video/2013/feb/07/solar-superstorm-dont-panic-prepare-video

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

Hello there Bill,

I wanted to tell you,
somewhere (maybe ats?) I read,

a good protection against EMF/EMP is:
a microwave with the cord removed.

Microwave is built to shield and apparently works both ways (but don't believe me without googling first lol).

Saves you the expense of the bag, go to the junkyard and collect dead microwaves,
or better yet clean and convert them and sell them on a survival site as EMP safes.

lol :D

[Operator]

Hello there Bill,

I wanted to tell you,
somewhere (maybe ats?) I read,

a good protection against EMF/EMP is:
a microwave with the cord removed.

Microwave is built to shield and apparently works both ways (but don't believe me without googling first lol).

Saves you the expense of the bag, go to the junkyard and collect dead microwaves,
or better yet clean and convert them and sell them on a survival site as EMP safes.

lol :D

I think most refrigerators can protect your electronics to some degree too. It's not top of the bill of course
but hey, when you are in a hurry it's better than nothing.

It's by the way important to isolate your stuff from the shielding metal.

[ThePythonicCow]

a good protection against EMF/EMP is:
a microwave with the cord removed.
My guess is that microwave ovens are built to keep a certain narrow range of frequencies, from a single source, from escaping the container, and that they don't even do that great a job of that.

I doubt that most such ovens can reliably shield their interiors from a broad spectrum of frequencies (which is what is an electromagnetic pulse) from diverse and unexpected external sources and directions.

For example, the see-through holes in the grid in the window in most microwave doors are tuned to block microwaves of wavelengths longer than those holes. Light (so you can see inside) and sufficiently short wavelength electromagnetic energy (high frequency) will pass right through.

A home-brew alternative that I'm using on some items is wrapping them in multiple alternating layers of (1) aluminum foil, and (2) ziplock bags. See that each foil layer completely surrounds the item, and close the ziplock bags so that one foil layer cannot short circuit (touch) another foil layer.

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

I hope that shielding is even possible anymore.

One of the reasons I became interested in Tesla physics and Helical waveforms was:
they can penetrate shielding and wipe information.
they can also penetrate shield to convey information.

ET phone home, etc.

<3 T


redefines the concept of a "death spiral" doesn't it??? LOL pun

[Operator]

a good protection against EMF/EMP is:
a microwave with the cord removed.
My guess is that microwave ovens are built to keep a certain narrow range of frequencies, from a single source, from escaping the container, and that they don't even do that great a job of that.

I doubt that most such ovens can reliably shield their interiors from a broad spectrum of frequencies (which is what is an electromagnetic pulse) from diverse and unexpected external sources and directions.

For example, the see-through holes in the grid in the window in most microwave doors are tuned to block microwaves of wavelengths longer than those holes. Light (so you can see inside) and sufficiently short wavelength electromagnetic energy (high frequency) will pass right through.

A home-brew alternative that I'm using on some items is wrapping them in multiple alternating layers of (1) aluminum foil, and (2) ziplock bags. See that each foil layer completely surrounds the item, and close the ziplock bags so that one foil layer cannot short circuit (touch) another foil layer.

Faraday cages should be frequency independent. Frequency dependency is only relevant when you use this as a single plate
to reflect electromagnetic waves. Faraday cages should be electrically connected at all sides.

I think that the trick is that EM waves can induce a current in a conductor and consequently build up unwanted
potentials in your electronics. So even if your shielding is built from all connected 'rings' they will behave as closed
loops and short circuit the current/potential build up in the shielding.

Anyway this is theory ... in practice there can be anomalies I guess.

[Hervé]

-------

Dear All,


[...]

Finally, I promised I'd say a word about solar activity. In summary: so far, so good. Watch http://spaceweather.com for alerts and updates. I've heard nothing more from my insider source who warned me of an 1859-scale solar event anticipated for early this year (i.e. round about now). If we make it safely through to the end of summer, risks of a major destructive CME [Coronal Mass Ejection] may be pretty much over.

[...]

I don't know about anyone else's perceptions on this, but it seems to me that the MSM are promoting impeding catastrophes the same way they promote la Kardhassian's derrière or some Britney's antics or whatever "star" du jour...

Check this one from http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/a-solar-superstorm-is-coming-and-well-only-get-30minute-warning-8484058.html:

A solar 'superstorm' is coming and we'll only get 30-minute warning


They cause devastation, occur every 150 years – and the last one was in 1859
Steve Connor (http://www.independent.co.uk/biography/steve-connor) Thursday 07 February 2013


http://www.independent.co.uk/incoming/article8484213.ece/ALTERNATES/w460/pg-10-solar-storms-ap.jpg
This image NASA provided image taken last June shows the Sun unleashing a solar flare, a minor radiation storm and a spectacular coronal mass ejection - AP

Related articles


Yet Another Armageddon? Five Ways to Prepare Yourself for the Impending Solar Superstorm (http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/iv-drip/yet-another-armageddon-five-ways-to-prepare-yourself-for-the-impending-solar-superstorm-8485429.html)
Strongest solar storm since 2005 hits Earth (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/strongest-solar-storm-since-2005-hits-earth-6293886.html)
The top astronomy pictures of 2012 (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/the-top-astronomy-pictures-of-2012-8428402.html)
'Brighter than a full moon': The biggest star of 2013... could be Ison - the comet of the century (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/brighter-than-a-full-moon-the-biggest-star-of-2013-could-be-ison--the-comet-of-the-century-8431443.html)
Strong solar storm threatens to hit satnavs (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/strong-solar-storm-threatens-to-hit-satnavs-7544752.html)
A solar "superstorm" could knock out Earth's communications satellites, cause dangerous power surges in the national grid and disrupt crucial navigation aids and aircraft avionics, a major report has found.

It is inevitable that an extreme solar storm – caused by the Sun ejecting billions of tonnes of highly-energetic matter travelling at a million miles an hour – will hit the Earth at some time in the near future, but it is impossible to predict more than about 30 minutes before it actually happens, a team of engineers has warned.

Solar superstorms are estimated to occur once every 100 or 200 years, with the last one hitting the Earth in 1859.

Although none has occurred in the space age, we are far more vulnerable now than a century ago because of the ubiquity of modern electronics, they said.

"The general consensus is that a solar superstorm is inevitable, a matter not of 'if' but 'when?'," says a report into extreme space weather by a group of experts at the Royal Academy of Engineering in London.

In the past half century, there have been a number of "near misses" when an explosive "coronal mass ejection" of energetic matter from the Sun has been flung into space, narrowly bypassing the Earth.

In 1989 a relatively minor solar storm knocked out several key electrical transformers in the Canadian national grid, causing major power blackouts.

Similar solar storms significantly increased atmospheric radiation levels in 1956, 1972, 1989 and 2003, the experts found.

Professor Paul Cannon, who chaired the academy's working group on solar storms, said that the Government should set up a space weather board to oversee measures aimed at minimising the impact of solar storms.

"A solar superstorm will be a challenge but not cataclysmic. The two challenges for government are the wide spectrum of technologies affected today and the emergence of unexpected vulnerabilities as technology evolves," he said.

"Our message is, 'Don't panic, but do prepare'. A solar superstorm will happen one day and we need to be ready for it.

"Many steps have already been taken to minimise the impact of solar storms on current technology… We anticipate that the UK can further minimise the impact," he added.

Minor solar storms hit the Earth on a regular basis, but these are far less powerful than the 1859 event named after the British astronomer Richard Carrington, which was the last true solar superstorm.

A similar event today would put severe strain the electricity grid, where transformers are particular vulnerable to power surges, as well as degrading the performance of satellites, GPS navigation, aviation and possibly the mobile phone network, particularly the new 4G network, which relies on GPS satellites for timing information.
"Satellites are certainly in the front line of a superstorm. They are part of our infrastructure and we have concerns about their survival in a solar superstorm," said Keith Ryden, a space engineer at Surrey University.

[Arrowwind]

[\A home-brew alternative that I'm using on some items is wrapping them in multiple alternating layers of (1) aluminum foil, and (2) ziplock bags. See that each foil layer completely surrounds the item, and close the ziplock bags so that one foil layer cannot short circuit (touch) another foil layer.

What are you using to cover large computer or TV screens as ziplocks are too small?
Do cable and wires need to be covered to?

[RMorgan]

[\A home-brew alternative that I'm using on some items is wrapping them in multiple alternating layers of (1) aluminum foil, and (2) ziplock bags. See that each foil layer completely surrounds the item, and close the ziplock bags so that one foil layer cannot short circuit (touch) another foil layer.

What are you using to cover large computer or TV screens as ziplocks are too small?
Do cable and wires need to be covered to?

Hey arrowwind,

Well, in my opinion, it´s not worth bothering to protect computers an most other electronic stuff.

In case of a big EMP caused by a solar storm, the whole grid will fry to the bone, including satellites.

Specialists estimate that it would take years, maybe decades, to rebuild the whole grid structure.

So, what is it worth to have a computer, without internet nowadays? Of course, you could hook your computer to a generator, but for what, to play games or to type some words in the word processor?

The only equipment that is worth saving is radio communication systems, portable solar charger and MP3 players (music is very invigorating in such situations).

Maybe even radios wouldn´t work for a while, because the ionosphere would be pretty messed up.

Raf.

[KiwiElf]

Such an EMP event would also fry the computers in modern cars and airplanes - don't think I'll be flying for a while

[Arrowwind]

Well, in my opinion, it´s not worth bothering to protect computers an most other electronic stuff.

In case of a big EMP caused by a solar storm, the whole grid will fry to the bone, including satellites.

Specialists estimate that it would take years, maybe decades, to rebuild the whole grid structure.

So, what is it worth to have a computer, without internet nowadays? Of course, you could hook your computer to a generator, but for what, to play games or to type some words in the word processor?

The only equipment that is worth saving is radio communication systems, portable solar charger and MP3 players (music is very invigorating in such situations).

.

I have talked to our local electric coop managers regarding solar flares. They said that they are slowly going though their systems and working on the situation to update equipment and protect it. We are in fairly direct line and close to the source of our electricity, which is hydroelectric. I figure we would be one of the first to be back on line and that we would be back on line eventually.. even though it might take a long time.

But my main concern in protecting my computer is because I have so much information stored on it. As soon as power is back I would want my laptop back. I wouldn't want the expense or trouble of having to get another one if that would even be possible at all.

Eventually power would come back on. What good is it to have a bunch of stuff sitting around that wont work when it does"

Im also interested in knowing how to protect vehicle electronics for engine start up.

[Conchis]

I hear you on the computer thing. I have so much information stored on my computer and I really don't want to (and probably practically speaking can't) print out all of that stuff. I have a Goal Zero solar/battery combination that will let me keep it altogether. It's not a full solar system (I wish that I had the finances to do such a thing), but it's a small series of panels and a small battery that I can use (and have used) to run my laptop for a few hours at a time.

[RMorgan]

I hear you on the computer thing. I have so much information stored on my computer and I really don't want to (and probably practically speaking can't) print out all of that stuff. I have a Goal Zero solar/battery combination that will let me keep it altogether. It's not a full solar system (I wish that I had the finances to do such a thing), but it's a small series of panels and a small battery that I can use (and have used) to run my laptop for a few hours at a time.

A laptop and solar charger are fairy easy to protect, in case someone rings the alarm a few minutes before a possible big solar flair/EMP event.

Just have metal boxes large enough to fit them, wrapping them first with thick plastic sheets. The important thing is that they cannot be in direct contact with the metallic surface of the box.

Always have a backup hard drive and back up your info about once a week, keeping it protected when not connected, just in case no one rings the alarm before such event.

Anyway, the best way to protect info is to print it. Paper is certainly EMP proof. :)

Here´s a good idea:

EoQZY1FtI3c

I would just recommend to use several layers of thick plastic/rubber sheet for insulation, instead of cardboard. It will work considerably better against a strong EMP.

Raf.

[Arrowwind]

[
Just have metal boxes large enough to fit them, wrapping them first with thick plastic sheets. The important thing is that they cannot be in direct contact with the metallic surface of the box.


With the trash pail Faraday cage he recommends to individually wrap each item with aluminum foil. So which is it? foil or plastic or both?
I think I'll be getting one of these next time I go to the city.

Lets make a list of all the things that you should routinely store in a faraday cage:


List of all things to go into cage at time of event
Back up hard drive
batteries.
Emergency radio
?
?

[RMorgan]

With the trash pail Faraday cage he recommends to individually wrap each item with aluminum foil. So which is it? foil or plastic or both?

Well, using a trash can or any other metal box, the important thing is that the lid must be very tight and in full direct contact with the box, so it acts like a close circuit.

If you insulate the box from inside, preferably alternating layers of different materials, such as rubber, plastic, cardboard, carpet, etc, then there´s no need to wrap up the electronics with anything.

If you don´t have a faraday box ready to go, then you can just wrap your electronics with alternate layers of plastic PVC film and tin foil, starting with the plastic film. About four layers of each is more then enough.

Raf.

PS: Microwaves don´t work as EMP proof faraday cages, as some people believe.

[Dennis Leahy]

Well, in my opinion, it´s not worth bothering to protect computers an most other electronic stuff.

Raf.
Hi Raf, I agree that most electronic gadgets will quickly lose their novelty without a supporting grid and when the time comes to be focused, not twiddling. Here are my thoughts:

Since the governments now rely on the grid being operational (hey, how can they use their surveillance equipment if it's not connected to a grid?), this will probably be a priority for them to resurrect (in the case of a solar EMP.) So, maybe it takes them a year... and when they get it back up, we don't want to have to come up with the money to buy new computer(s.)

Another thought about the value of having a working computer: exactly what's in your computer? Do you have an herbal database? Alternative medicine information? Water purification info? Garden pest info and organic solutions? Maps (not just links to Google maps or Mapquest, but actual maps) of areas that may be important for you and your family? And, to provide emotional/mental/spiritual comfort, maybe even some inspirational documentaries, guided imagery, and (for those interested) yoga sets. If you have a working CD/DVD player, you can play recorded music, movies, and some applications hold a database and/or images on disc.

So yes, a computer dependent on the Internet being up and accessible may be worthless, but a computer full of info may be quite valuable.

Dennis

[RMorgan]

Another thought about the value of having a working computer: exactly what's in your computer? Do you have an herbal database? Alternative medicine information? Water purification info? Garden pest info and organic solutions? Maps (not just links to Google maps or Mapquest, but actual maps) of areas that may be important for you and your family? And, to provide emotional/mental/spiritual comfort, maybe even some inspirational documentaries, guided imagery, and (for those interested) yoga sets. If you have a working CD/DVD player, you can play recorded music, movies, and some applications hold a database and/or images on disc.


Hey Dennis,

It´s better to have all this information on paper, or better yet, in your brain; Printing a compilation of essential information for such emergencies may be an excellent idea. There are no substitutes for real maps as well.

For family entertainment, it´s better to have old school games, which are pretty much EMP proof as well...And how about real musical instruments? Get yourself a small harmonica and a soprano ukulele (with a few extra string sets) and you´re ready to go.

Anyway, instead of a computer, it´s much better to save an MP3 player with lots of music, for several reasons; Its battery charge lasts longer, it´s smaller, it´s lighter, it´s quicker to charge, etc...

In such emergencies, it´s not that the lights would go out for god knows how long and everything else would remain the same; It´s much more complicated than that. Society and civilization is held together by a real fragile structure, nowadays.

Unfortunately, in such cases, everything turns into chaos. You just don´t have enough room to carry everything you want, specially if you are forced to hit the road, so it´s better to focus on the essential.

The fact is, that we have grown dependent on such technologies, which are just luxuries. In case of such events, you wont need computers. The whole civilian grid structure, including the internet structure, would take more than a decade to be rebuilt, according to specialists.

About communication, in such cases, if any satellite survives, the government will use them strictly for official/military traffic, probably for a very long time. If they manage to launch new com satellites, they will also be for official use as well. You know you can´t count on the government to save people. They will concentrate their efforts to re-establish their own grid; Only after that, which would take at least a few years, they would start repairing the civilian grid...IF there´s any government left.

Raf.

[Arrowwind]

[I would just recommend to use several layers of thick plastic/rubber sheet for insulation, instead of cardboard. It will work considerably better against a strong EMP.

Raf.

We have heavy duty plastic pond lining laying around. I suppose that would work?

[RMorgan]

We have heavy duty plastic pond lining laying around. I suppose that would work?

Sure. Use contact cement/glue to glue it around the whole internal surface of the box/trash can. Sandwich it with layers of other materials (carpet, cardboard, etc..).

[Arrowwind]

We have heavy duty plastic pond lining laying around. I suppose that would work?

Sure. Use contact cement/glue to glue it around the whole internal surface of the box/trash can. Sandwich it with layers of other materials (carpet, cardboard, etc..).

Actually I just found out its called epdm a type of rubber.. so thats probably better

[Arrowwind]

On one of the websites I was visiting today regarding emp I came across a failry comprehensive pdf file discussing the implications and ramifactions of an EMP event. They had accessed all the leading governmental agencies for information. Its pretty informative. If you understand the nature of the event and all the issues it can create it helps you to understand what you might need to do.
http://www.futurescience.com/A2473-EMP-Commission.pdf

This all gets me back to storing gasoline again.. which I hate to do but would be necessary for immediate needs, especially for the truck and chain saw although a horse and wagon might ultimately be the better solution. Ive been advised that vehicle fuses would have to be replaced so thats another thing to go into the Farada can... which now leads me to an assumption that household fuses would also be at risk?

I wonder if there are other parts in a vehicle aside from fuses that would require protection or replacement?

[Operator]

Last week somebody put on a call spread on the VIX using the April 20 and 25 puts.

April 20th is an often used date for occult practices ... it's Hitler's birtday.


Do cable and wires need to be covered to?

Unplug all cables and wires ... they'll work as antennas and may feed currents
into your Faraday cage. That's the reason why there was an advice to cut the cable
from the microwave (see other remark further below).
Keep cables open-ended!



Well, in my opinion, it´s not worth bothering to protect computers an most other electronic stuff.
.....
The only equipment that is worth saving is radio communication systems,
.....


Computers can be used as communication systems, especially in combination with radio equipment.
That may be the first available grid after an event.



There's been a massive "bet" placed -- thousands of times larger then 'normal' -- that the markets will crash round about the end of April.


Making money by such a bet means that this trader in the know expects that money is still worth
something after this event. So the event probably isn't a full currency crash.



Well, using a trash can or any other metal box, the important thing is that the lid must be very tight and in full direct contact with the box, so it acts like a close circuit.


I agree that a Faraday cage must be a closed circuit around the stuff you wan to protect. However
from my previous ESD courses I know that openings like the lid opening in this case already forms a closed
circuit (loop) by itself. Now again this is theory (just to understand it) in practice I would advice to
close 'the box' as much as possible and make it conductive all around.



PS: Microwaves don´t work as EMP proof Faraday cages, as some people believe.

Well like refrigerators, I mentioned previously, the doors may not be electrically connected to
the rest of the housing. Refrigerators sometimes do not have a metal back.
But anyway my statement above also states that in theory it doesn't have to be closed completely.
As long as your stuff is contained in a metal or conductive loop.

If your desktop computer is contained in a metal case and cables are disconnected(!) there
might be a chance that it survives too.

While Faraday cages are great to protect against Electrostatic Discharge (ESD) I wonder what is needed for real strong (electro) magnetic fields.
The container works as a short circuited loop. But with high power fields and currents the container may not sustain the currents and forces
and crumble.
So tin foil by itself will probably not be the optimum container.

It may also be wise to take of jewelry like rings, bracelets etc. anything of metal forming loops .... ;)

[RMorgan]

[COLOR=darkorchid]This all gets me back to storing gasoline again.. which I hate to do but would be necessary for immediate needs, especially for the truck and chain saw although a horse and wagon might ultimately be the better solution. Ive been advised that vehicle fuses would have to be replaced so thats another thing to go into the Farada can... which now leads me to an assumption that household fuses would also be at risk?

I wonder if there are other parts in a vehicle aside from fuses that would require protection or replacement?

Gasoline gets spoiled pretty fast and becomes useless and pasty; Premium grade gasoline lasts between one and two years, common gasoline lasts between three and twelve months, depending on the climate.

Modern cars are not reliable for such situations; They are fully dependent on several electronic parts.

So, ideally, an old diesel vehicle is the best option.

[Arrowwind]

[COLOR=darkorchid]This all gets me back to storing gasoline again.. which I hate to do but would be necessary for immediate needs, especially for the truck and chain saw although a horse and wagon might ultimately be the better solution. Ive been advised that vehicle fuses would have to be replaced so thats another thing to go into the Farada can... which now leads me to an assumption that household fuses would also be at risk?

I wonder if there are other parts in a vehicle aside from fuses that would require protection or replacement?

Gasoline gets spoiled pretty fast and becomes useless and pasty; Premium grade gasoline lasts between one and two years, common gasoline lasts between three and twelve months, depending on the climate.

Modern cars are not reliable for such situations; They are fully dependent on several electronic parts.

So, ideally, an old diesel vehicle is the best option.

Yes, i dream of an old diesel. We do have a 96 diesel ford truck.

I have an addative for gasoline that holds it up to 6 months. You have to cycle it and not over store it. For me this means manually funneling 30 gallons of gas into the car about every 6 months.. pain in the neck.
Didn't know that premium stored for so long. Will have to consider that and if the addative will extend that.

So should I assume that a large vehicle battery will be ruined by strong EMP?

[RMorgan]

Yes, i dream of an old diesel. We do have a 96 diesel ford truck.

I have an addative for gasoline that holds it up to 6 months. You have to cycle it and not over store it. For me this means manually funneling 30 gallons of gas into the car about every 6 months.. pain in the neck.
Didn't know that premium stored for so long. Will have to consider that and if the addative will extend that.

So should I assume that a large vehicle battery will be ruined by strong EMP?


No. Batteries will be fine; They are not affected by EMP. :)

[Arrowwind]

All this stuff is designed to keep every one in there car's.


Well yes. Its all designed to keep us in our cars. Personally, I like my car. Ive also traded it in for a new one a fair number of times.
I disagree that I am so fully controlled. When you are playing a game you are not controlled. You agree to the rules. We all agreed to the rules when we came here if we believe we did so or not. Part of the game is to live as long and as well as you possibly can... of coures long and well is subjective.

I would like to decide when my car is not good enough anymore, I've been long term involved in its maintance and care and I have grown temporarilly attached to it and its outcome especially to fulfill specific goals. I do not wish to be forced to trade it in, prematurely, against my will or to have it stolen from me. It is after all, mine. No one elses as a Soeverign being lives in this car and cares for it daily. I assume I will eventually get bored with driving around and I wont come here anymore even though the roads and secenery has been pretty good this time around. Until that day I will perservere in maintaining my vehicle on as many levels as possible for I came here to do a work that is not yet complete.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


[No. Batteries will be fine; They are not affected by EMP. :)

Great! I didn't like my vision of pulling auto batteries out and wrapping them up in 4 layers of stuff. ;) Groaning just thinking about it.

I thought I had read that batteries had to go into a faraday bag, thinking small batteries like flashlight etc. Did I read it wrong or was I dreamin? thanks.

[Arrowwind]

Summary:
Disconnect all electric cords and wires and leave them outside of the Faraday Cage.
Label the cords appropriately. You may not be using this equipment for quite a while.

Aside from having a faraday cage or bag available keep plastic sheeting, ziplock bags and lots of tin foil and tape on hand to wrap electronic equipment with.
The time of warning to time of impact is short so you need to know where things are and have them ready to go. If you carry your computer around with you its best to purchase a faraday bag for it and carry that too. It can hold your computer, watch, phone, gps, car fuses and solar flashlight all together. Make it part of your auto survival gear.

List of all things to routinely store in a Faraday Cage
Back up hard drive
Flash drives
Solar powered flashlight
Small solar panels
House and vehicle fuses
CFL light bulbs
Mp3 player with music on it

List of Things to put into cage at time of event.
Store this list in the can tapped to the lid.
Computer
Television
Surge protectors
Electric clocks and timers
Blue ray or apple box
Internet router
Battery watches
Telephones
Printers
Electronic Medical Equipment
DVD player
Baby Monitors
Battery chargers
Tool battery chargers
Digital camera
Short wave and Ham radios
Chain saw ignition coil

[ThePythonicCow]

What are you using to cover large computer or TV screens as ziplocks are too small?
er ... eh ... nothing :).

I have several "spare" computers (building computers has been a hobby of mine.) I'm figuring that a computer built in a fully surrounding metal chasis, with no wires or cables connected, should have a good chance of surviving most things. I also have spare boards and power supplies and such, if just "a little" damage is done. Getting zapped with a strong enough pulse to take out all that means that my corner of North Texas has left the electronics age and gone back to the steam age :).

I have a couple of spare, disconnected, monitors. They are not protected at present. If they all get zapped, then I have a bit of a problem :).


Do cable and wires need to be covered to?
Oh heavens no. Cables and wires can withstand enormous voltage spikes, and when disconnected, they do not provide much opportunity for current flow. Those are safe ... well safer than say our own mortal bodies.

However the cables and wires that are connected to computers act as antennae, providing a major path for an electromagnetic pulse to get into the computer and start doing damage to the computer components. I have surge protectors on both the power supply cord and the cable to my Internet modem, protecting my main computer. This should reduce the risk of serious damage from the more common problem of a surge due to lightning or even a repeat of the 1859 Carrington Event.

[Selene]

The folks over at TheGoldenThread.info have been compiling and discussing a lot of the best prepping info for several years now. (Some of our members here are also there.) Their extensive library can help answer in detail a lot of questions members here may have about EMP protection, food storage, energy, bugging out vs. shelter in place and other issues.

I highly recommend: http://www.thegoldenthread.info/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=92

Here's a thread on the latest EMP protection info: http://www.thegoldenthread.info/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=2590

With regard to having a solar event knock out the internet, perhaps long-term, I have also taken the precaution of printing out vital survival info now and compiling it in large binders – it’s cheap, relatively permanent and boy, when you need to know how to purify water, or build a solar stove or save seeds – those diagrams and instructions will be priceless. A lot of people just think ‘I’ll look it up….It’s on my laptop.’ (Are you sure – and not just a link to a website that will be fried?) But how will you look anything up, when the power’s been out for six months?

Paper is cheap. Knowledge is priceless.

Cheers,

Selene

[Jean-Marie]

If someone can prove me wrong, then I humbly apologize!

However, My husband designs fuses. He is into circuit protection, thin film, ceramic, used to be in power fuse, etc..

All electronics today are protected by fuses. The fuses in you car will stop it from frying out the circuits in the event of an EMP. All modern day electronics have fuses in them. They are designed so that if they take a hit from a power surge the fuse opens up and power is stopped from continuing through the circuitry. In the case of today's smaller electronics like the IPad and IPhone the fuses are printed and laminated on the boards.

So for your vehicle, stock up on extra fuses. For small electronics, protecting them is important because you cannot take them apart and replace the fuses. They are either soldiered or printed onto the boards.

[Jean-Marie]

Another issue to think of in regards to restoring power...

If a solar flare caused an EMP that hit the power lines, the surge could take out the transformers that step up or down the amount of electricity. The surge could pass the transformers before taking them out and the power would continue surging on to your house. Your house fuses or breaker fuses could also take a hit and need to be replaced. So if you think about it picking up extra glass fuses (old style) or circuit breakers should be another item to stock up on when you are preparing.

-jean-marie

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

will foil act as a farady cage?

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

is it ok to put unplugged power cords in a farady cage along with the equipment they belong to?

[Arrowwind]

will foil act as a farady cage?

Only if you make a 4 pointed hat out of it.;)

[ThePythonicCow]

Well, in my opinion, it´s not worth bothering to protect computers an most other electronic stuff.

In case of a big EMP caused by a solar storm, the whole grid will fry to the bone, including satellites.

Specialists estimate that it would take years, maybe decades, to rebuild the whole grid structure.

So, what is it worth to have a computer, without internet nowadays? Of course, you could hook your computer to a generator, but for what, to play games or to type some words in the word processor?
Sure, there are sufficiently large EMP's that can take down the whole grid.

However ...

1) There are intermediate threats which will leave much standing or repairable within months. If one of those hits, I'd rather be one of those with computer equipment still working.

2) Computers to have uses even without the Internet. I used computers for 20 years before connecting to the Internet. I have a vast library of reading on my computer (far more than I would ever print out), which may serve to inform or entertain. With a working computer, and a radio, I could publish a newsletter for my neighbors.

[Arrowwind]

If someone can prove me wrong, then I humbly apologize!

However, My husband designs fuses. He is into circuit protection, thin film, ceramic, used to be in power fuse, etc..

All electronics today are protected by fuses. The fuses in you car will stop it from frying out the circuits in the event of an EMP. All modern day electronics have fuses in them. They are designed so that if they take a hit from a power surge the fuse opens up and power is stopped from continuing through the circuitry. In the case of today's smaller electronics like the IPad and IPhone the fuses are printed and laminated on the boards.

So for your vehicle, stock up on extra fuses. For small electronics, protecting them is important because you cannot take them apart and replace the fuses. They are either soldiered or printed onto the boards.

The way that I understand it, Jean Marie, is that an emp wave can be very powerful and can enter right into an electronic gadget though its casing and distroy them as the wave moves through the gadgets circuitry. Fueses and circuit breakers will be important but the whole electronic component must be protected also.

[Jean-Marie]

Exactly Arrowwind...

Small electronics should be protected. Laptops are easier to fit in a faraday cage than a desk top with a tower, monitor, etc...

However, having electricity to be able to plug them in will be a problem until the electricity is restored. If you have a generator than you will be able to use them. When electricity is restored to an area power in your house will not be up and running if your circuit breakers took a hit. Com Ed is only responsible for bringing power to your house. You would be responsible for your circuit breaker.

[Arrowwind]

will foil act as a farady cage?

It is recommended that you wrap your electronic component with plastic first, fully seal it, then foil, then plastic, alternating for 4 layers.

then you put your foil hat on for extra saftety;)


¤=[Post Update]=¤

So I found out that a chain saw ignition coil should be protected. Does a chainsaw have anything else in there I need to think about?

[SilentFeathers]

Well, in my opinion, it´s not worth bothering to protect computers an most other electronic stuff.

In case of a big EMP caused by a solar storm, the whole grid will fry to the bone, including satellites.

Specialists estimate that it would take years, maybe decades, to rebuild the whole grid structure.

So, what is it worth to have a computer, without internet nowadays? Of course, you could hook your computer to a generator, but for what, to play games or to type some words in the word processor?
Sure, there are sufficiently large EMP's that can take down the whole grid.

However ...

1) There are intermediate threats which will leave much standing or repairable within months. If one of those hits, I'd rather be one of those with computer equipment still working.

2) Computers to have uses even without the Internet. I used computers for 20 years before connecting to the Internet. I have a vast library of reading on my computer (far more than I would ever print out), which may serve to inform or entertain. With a working computer, and a radio, I could publish a newsletter for my neighbors.

Solar flares? Comets smashing into the Earth? hmmm???? I think the bigger threat of a power grid failure, internet shut down, etc, is simply being caused by some sinister goblin like critter in Washington simply flicking a switch to the off position!

[Lazlo]

So much bad information flying around...

Circuit breakers just get reset, they are not fuses. Fuses work once, breakers work over and over and over

Solar flares induce DC current, but they need big antennas to collect it. The real damage is to transformers. These will take years to replace while modern civilization crumbles around us.

EMPs are a man made event and affect electronics. Think North Korea detonating a nuke in the upper atmosphere over the CONUS

In a short term event, you can stay home and boot back up after a few days or weeks. In that case fine, you can have your e-books and photos back.

In a big event, you are not likely to ever be booting up your laptop or other electronics ever again unless you want to carry the dead weight around with you. See my previous post about people getting hypothermia because they were carrying around electronics instead of warm dry clothes. Survival will require being adaptable and mobile.

You have to asume that if the information isn't on paper, or better yet stored in your head, then it will be inaccessible to you. Having an army survival manual on a hard drive is a whole lot less useful than knowing how to build shelter or start a fire in the rain.

Don't worry about storing fuel, having it after the initial bug out just makes you a target for bad people with guns and the will to use them.

The best piece of advice that no one has even touched on in this thread? Have a network of people that you trust implicitly. Humans are social animals and only groups of people working together will make it.

Take a first aid class.

Learn to identify wild foods, start a fire, get clean water, build a shelter,....

Remember the rule of threes. You can survive 3 hours without shelter, 3 days without water, and 3 weeks without food. Lots of people get into serious trouble when out of their comfort zone because the don't prioritize properly.

If you sit still and waste your last food or ammo protecting a trash can full of gadgets, you are a goner. Don't worry, there will be plenty of stuff laying around after the big one, whatever it may be.

[Arrowwind]

[Solar flares? Comets smashing into the Earth? hmmm???? I think the bigger threat of a power grid failure, internet shut down, etc, is simply being caused by some sinister goblin like critter in Washington simply flicking a switch to the off position!

In that case the fix is easy. Just flip the switch back on. Eventually it would get done and it wouldn't last as long as a solar emp event.

Many people will be forced out of their house and forced onto the road in either scenario. In which case, yes thinking about survial when reduced to a backpack does not include electronics. But some others are not going to be moving and will depend on what they have cautiously worked out on their homestead. For us its pretty important that we can keep the chain saw going.

[Lazlo]

Arrowwind, You are going to get ZERO warning before an EMP. If you have a component you are worried about you need to buy it now, wrap it up, and hope you never need to remember where you put it.

[Nick Matkin]

Great thread, very interesting. One thing that no one has mentioned is communication. This will be one of the key requirements in the post-whatever-it-is-that-is-supposed-to-happen event.

So, anyone who has practical experience in communications, CB radio and ham radio particularly, be ready to organize yourselves. Most countries have ham operator groups that specialize in emergency communications (RAYNET in the UK), but with the spread of the mobile/cell phone, such groups have become a bit of an anachronism and my well need re-invigorating.

Have you made provision for your radio communication gear to operate without mains power, for days, weeks…? Have you got solar panels or bicycle dynamos that will re-charge batteries? Or simple clockwork equipment like the radios you can buy?

And all you folks that have solar panels on your property to reduce your electricity bills; do they still give you AC when the grid goes down? Most (all?) do not! So do you know how to re-wire them so you can charge batteries for your community?

I admit to being a bit sceptical about yet more end-of-civilization-as-we-know-it scenarios. How many have been and gone uneventfully in the past decade? But hey, what if I’m ***ing wrong? Even I think it would be a good idea to be prepared. My money’s on a collapse of the economy but with infrastructure more or less intact – something like the 1998 Russian financial crisis.

Regarding EMP/solar flares; in my opinion Lazlo in post #108 has hit the nail on the head. There seems to be some confusion about these two things. It’s the atomic particles from the sun (coronal mass ejections) that cause the serious problems; they cause the earth’s magnetic field to swing about.

CMEs are not at all uncommon, but something like the Carrington Event causes such large and rapid swings that Earth’s rapidly moving magnetic field induces unwanted voltages in the very long AC power lines that criss-cross large countries like the US, Canada, Russia, etc, saturating and (apparently) burning out the transformers at each end. These are big expensive devices and are not a stock item that can be just trucked in, well at least not if hundreds or thousands are needed across a continent.

And as Lazlo says, an EMP is caused by an attack, a nuclear weapon of some type. I don’t know of any qualified solar physicist who has ever claimed there is any Earth/Sun mechanism that can induce a rapid one microsecond voltage wavefront EMP that is so strong it destroys electronics or the power grid. The energy has come from the Sun, it’s had 93m miles to spread. It didn’t come from a point source, but a sunspot at least as big as the Earth. If the grid is destroyed it’s because of the burnt out transformers caused as described above.

This Sun/EMP stuff probably came from some journo who didn’t understand what they were writing – unless someone can show me otherwise.

And yes, a fridge, microwave oven, sheets of aluminium foil, tin bucket with a metal lid will all give some protection against an EMP. But unless your equipment is clockwork, what you gonna do when the batteries go flat when there’s no mains – unless you have a solar charger… and even then no internet, phone network, TV…

Nick

[ThePythonicCow]

However, My husband designs fuses. He is into circuit protection, thin film, ceramic, used to be in power fuse, etc..

All electronics today are protected by fuses. The fuses in you car will stop it from frying out the circuits in the event of an EMP. All modern day electronics have fuses in them. They are designed so that if they take a hit from a power surge the fuse opens up and power is stopped from continuing through the circuitry.

Fuses are prevalent, yes.

But they do not always protect from high voltage, broad spectrum frequency spikes.

People still lose equipment due to near by lightning strikes sending a surge down their power lines. Electromagnetic fields and currents have widely varying physical properties, depending on their frequencies. What is designed to be a proper fuse at one frequency can be a fine shunt or antenna at another frequency. The major EMP pulses we are worried about here encompass a very wide range of frequencies all at once, and present a challenge to our electrical and electronic equipment that can not be handled by the simple expedient of a fuse.

[Hervé]

Well, all right...

... what about a False Flag EMP?

Something generated by this kind of device and simultaneously all over an area (from: http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2012/10/24/today-we-turned-science-fiction-into-science-fact-latest-on-the-new-missile-that-can-fry-electronics/):


‘Today We Turned Science Fiction Into Science Fact’: Latest on the New Missile That Can Fry Electronics
Oct. 24, 2012 9:26am Liz Klimas (http://www.theblaze.com/blog/author/elizabeth.klimas)

Boeing has completed another successful test for technology that fries enemy electronics with little to no collateral damage to other objects. This news comes a little more than a year after TheBlaze reported on Boeing’s previous successes (http://www.theblaze.com/stories/non-lethal-missile-neutralizes-enemy-electronics/) with its Counter-electronics High-powered Microwave Advanced Missile Project (CHAMP).

Boeing describes CHAMP (http://boeing.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=2454) as “a non-kinetic alternative to traditional explosive weapons that use the energy of motion to defeat a target.” In its most recent test that took place last week with the U.S. Air Force Research Laboratory Directed Energy Directorate, Kirtland Air Force Base, N.M., over the Utah Test and Training Range, Boeing proved CHAMP could follow a pre-programmed flight plan and wipe out enemy target data and electronic subsystems by emitting high amounts of energy.

http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Boeings-CHAMP_2-620x350.jpg
Computers inside CHAMP’s target building before it was blasted with high-energy microwaves. (Image: Boeing)

http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Boeings-CHAMP_1-620x350.jpg
Computers were knocked offline after the missile was fired. (Image: Boeing)

“This technology marks a new era in modern-day warfare,” Keith Coleman, CHAMP program manager for Boeing Phantom Works, said in the company’s press release. “In the near future, this technology may be used to render an enemy’s electronic and data systems useless even before the first troops or aircraft arrive.”

http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Artist-rendering-of-CHAMP-620x350.jpg
Artist’s rendition of the missile. (Image: Boeing)

Watch this Boeing report on the latest test of the first fully functional CHAMP:

http://bcove.me/vcnu5gym


In a recent feature on CHAMP’s latest test (http://www.boeing.com/Features/2012/10/bds_champ_10_22_12.html), Boeing describes how the missile approached a two-story building, fired high-powered microwaves at it and effectively knocked out the computers and other electrical systems inside. It states that even the cameras that were inside the building to record the test were wiped out.


“Today we turned science fiction into science fact,” Coleman said in Boeing’s feature.



*****************************************


... you know... with drones all over the place...

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

is it ok to put unplugged power cords in a farady cage along with the equipment they belong to?

anyone know the answer to this?

[ThePythonicCow]

is it ok to put unplugged power cords in a farady cage along with the equipment they belong to?

anyone know the answer to this?

unplugged cords are harmless, to themselves and to what's near them

[alienready]

-------

Dear All,

Here's my own perspective on recommended reading. It's what I personally feel is of great importance -- as a summary of what we may be facing in the relatively near future. (By that, I mean something like the next 2-6 months from now, 7 Feb 2013.)

Of course, there's a great deal more to understand and absorb. It's fine for readers to make recommendations about important aspects that you may feel I've missed. I also fully acknowledge that many of you will already be quite familiar with what follows.

The purpose of this thread is to see if we can get ourselves all more or less on to the same page. We are necessarily of different personalities, different backgrounds, different skill-sets, even different generations, and have different purposes on Planet Earth this lifetime. But we have to assume that we are all on the same side here in what is an enormous game, contest, or battle: pick your metaphor of choice.

Here, I'm more or less focused on practicalities. In my opinion, you should be too. Your personal and spiritual development and learning parallels this. There are many aspects of Avalon which focus on and support this. That's all good, as it's part of our purpose.

But there are real threats before us. The frog-in-the-saucepan analogy applies. We should not be just spectators. The alternative media (including these words you're reading right now) is not just more entertainment and material for idle discussion, like alternative TV.

We can't just be consumers of interesting information, as if we're watching the ultimate reality show. We have to act, to take responsibility, to do stuff. Don't just watch.

Some of you will have a mission to inform others, and that's understood. But if we're ALL just informing one another, and doing nothing, the incestuousness becomes futile and of little use. One of the axes I grind about the alternative media, and the overwhelming plethora of radio shows, is that so many commentators spend so much time interviewing each other.

This overwhelming tsunami of information -- quite a lot of which is noise -- is simply too much for any person to keep up with. (This is part of the value of the Avalon Forum: an able, focused group working together to present a filtered, predigested synthesis. This thread is a part of that.)

As long ago as 2008, Kerry Cassidy and I were discussing whether Project Camelot's work was essentially complete. For those who may not know the history, this was the genesis of Project Avalon, which was always envisioned to be providing solutions, facilitating networks and personal connections, and offering sources of practical information.

That's because the problem statement is this:

If there exists a powerful, amoral [or worse], unimaginably wealthy group controlling the planet, with classified highly advanced technology at their disposal, whose origins go back thousands of years and longer, who are allied with or used by ET races who do NOT have the interests of the human race at heart and who are defying any existing non-interference agreements, who are psychically adept, are trained in and practice technologically amplified black magic, and who regard you and me as the enemy...

...Then what are we going to do about it?

Here are my suggestions.

1) Inform yourselves about all the basics, and in particular (because it's practically important right now) what I reference at the foot of this article.

2) Protect yourselves and those you care about in practical terms. That may extend to:

independence from regular infrastructure if this should suddenly fail
moving out of harm's way if you currently live in a non-optimum location, while you still have the freedom to do so, and if this is in alignment with your personal purpose
working in whatever ways you can to counter and re-define the existing probable timeline(s).

The last of these is important. Some of you are practical hard-skilled people who have no natural ability, training or experience in these areas, and this is fine. Among the mods team, I'm sure they won't mind my saying, that would include Paul and Ilie. Those guys are heroes in a different quarter. If it were not for them, Avalon cold not function as securely and smoothly as it does. They are of immense value to the wider team here. We are not asking of them that they are also white magicians. :)

But some of you are. You know who you are. It IS possible to influence events, individuals and groups, to heal the individuals involved, and dismantle the control structure as rapidly as it's being assembled. A large number of people are doing this, and I know many of them personally. A number are members of Avalon (and some of toss people operate very quietly and do not attract any attention to themselves) but many are operating independently in diverse groups all over the world and in many different cultures, using many different techniques. (As an aside, you may be interested to know that there's an enormous amount of positive activity currently taking place in Russia.)

All this has delayed the roll-out of planned events. The timeline is already significantly different from that foreseen in (for instance) T1V83 (http://projectcamelot.org/t1v83.html). (That was very real. Kerry and I were briefed, off camera, for five hours about that. We were left in absolutely no doubt that this was not imaginary.

But the variant timeline has so proved to be very different again. It's important to remember, each morning we awake, that NOTHING REALLY BAD HAS HAPPENED YET. This is not good fortune, or the acts of God, or the ETs, or the mistakes of the insiders. People like you have together been hauling at the rudder to change the direction of the supertanker. And it's been working.

And now we come to the principal theme of this article.

Like a solar cycle with very few sunspots (and I'll say a little more about this later), we may now be heading into a period of escalated activity that could threaten everything we've grown used to. This is what this heads-up is about.

http://projectavalon.net./2013_The_Year_America_Dies_sm.jpg

Essential reading:

1) From Dave Hodges of The Common Sense Show (a very measured and well-written article):

Part One:
http://thecommonsenseshow.com/2012/12/25/ex-feds-and-wall-street-execs-are-going-into-hiding-why

Part Two:
http://thecommonsenseshow.com/2012/12/27/why-ex-feds-and-wall-street-execs-are-going-into-hiding

2) This information (as Dave Hodges states) dovetails closely with the Doug Hagmann ('Rosebud') information which emerged a few days earlier:

Part One:
http://homelandsecurityus.com/archives/7305

Part Two:
http://homelandsecurityus.com/archives/7310

This all fits with known scenarios and situations. This is what I was expecting earlier last year (2012), but which may now have been deferred or delayed till now.

3) The two hour interview with insider economist "V", archived here:

http://projectavalon.net/Steve_Quayle_Doug_Hagmann_and_V_11_Jan_2013.mp3

4) The latest from DHS insider 'Rosebud', which I'd been waiting for since Christmas, published in full on this thread:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?55370-Confirmed-Forums-under-attack-from-23-Jan-2013--DHS-Insider-source

The original reference is here:

http://homelandsecurityus.com/archives/7666

This lays it all out, as plain as day. The pieces all fit together. Those of you following the very weird, anomalous and suspicious Sandy Hook incident will have seen all the signs. 'Rosebud' summarizes that we should expect:

a) Possibly as early as April, a sudden collapse of the US economy. Insider economist "V" describes this also [see (3) above], saying that the best case scenario will be like the 1999 collapse of the Russian Ruble (great austerity, soup and bread lines, but infrastructure intact) -- and the worst case would be full-blown civil war.

http://projectavalon.net/Steve_Quayle_Doug_Hagmann_and_V_11_Jan_2013.mp3

One of the actions to take here is to get out of all paper investments. Note that gold stocks are not gold! Liquid, small-denomination gold and silver coins are smart to hold. Insider-connected people that know what's about to happen are investing in practical equipment, stored food, hard resources, and farmable land. Anything left over is in precious metals.

"V" states that after a period of apparently wild fluctuations around the current prices, silver will shoot up to $500-600, gold to $4000-6000. I can understand this, as I have first-hand confirmation that (as "V" says) there's barely any inventory anywhere. There's very little physical gold and silver to buy right now, and prices are certainly artificially suppressed.

But, as George Green has always advised, the best investment may be in land, equipment, spare parts, and useful practical stuff. There may come a point where gold and silver will only be practically useful at the END of the emergency. (Always think: who will buy it from you?)

b) A set-up/ false-flag incident or situation intended to publicly demonize government-critical 'fringe groups' such as survivalists, sovereigns, patriots, constitutionalists, gun rights advocates, and other 'domestic terrorists' -- maybe even all lumped together.

c) Another Sandy Hook type incident -- maybe escalated to be far more apparently horrific.

d) (Already rolled out on 23 January) -- the start of subversive and disruptive action against a large number of online groups and individuals, certainly including the Avalon Forum and some members within it. (There is strong reason to believe that when this proved to be ineffective, due to Avalon's strong membership firewalls, the action was excavated to a different level, one that 'Rosebud' does not mention or does not know about, which features technologically-amplified psychic attacks on targeted individuals. See this important three part interview if you're in any doubt about the reality of this technology:


http://projectavalon.net/John_Hall_Feb_8_2010_Hour_1.mp3
http://projectavalon.net/John_Hall_Feb_8_2010_Hour_2.mp3
http://projectavalon.net/John_Hall_Feb_8_2010_Hour_3.mp3

e) Some deaths of activists, intended as warnings to the alternative community. (This too seems to have begun already, and I suspect there will be more).

Finally, I promised I'd say a word about solar activity. In summary: so far, so good. Watch http://spaceweather.com for alerts and updates. I've heard nothing more from my insider source who warned me of an 1859-scale solar event anticipated for early this year (i.e. round about now). If we make it safely through to the end of summer, risks of a major destructive CME [Coronal Mass Ejection] may be pretty much over.

In the meantime, I have a bunch of military-grade EMP bags (http://www.disasterstuff.com/store/pc/EMP-Protection-c128.htm), which are really quite cheap, ready on hand to protect any critical electronics. You may only need a few, and they'll last forever.

So that's it. Please read the above through as many times as it takes to really understand this. And please do read all the linked articles and listen to all the audios. (It'll take a little time, but I promise it's worth it.)

And finally, as I've said many times, the mods and admins here do a quite stellar job. There HAVE been attacks on the forum, and we've been tracking them carefully. There are some very able people on the team, supported by a number of very able members behind the scenes. (You know who you are, and I thank you all.)

There's been a lot of work done already. The forum is in good shape, but we're agreed that there will almost certainly be more to come. All this may only just have started. Put on your lifejackets, and connect your safety lines: we're all on this journey together.

Good info, the EMP bags are great but can you get them for people?

[GoodETxSG]

Article from HAM RADIO NEWS
SATURDAY, FEBRUARY 23, 2013

A Primer on Faraday Cages

http://www.americanpreppersnetworkradionet.com/2013/02/a-primer-on-faraday-cages.html?utm_source=APN+Newsletter+for+week+of+Feb+24%2C+2013&utm_campaign=Constant+Contact+11-3-2012&utm_medium=email
SATURDAY, FEBRUARY 23, 2013

A Primer on Faraday Cages
There is a great deal of confusion about Faraday cages. Not only about how to build them, but also what they actually protect against. In this article, I will answer a few basic questions and perhaps debunk a few myths.

What is a Faraday cage?

A Faraday cage (a.k.a. Faraday shield) is a sealed enclosure that has an electrically conductive outer layer. It can be in the shape of a box, cylinder, sphere, or any other closed shape. The enclosure itself can be conductive, or it can be made of a non-conductive material (such as cardboard or wood) and then wrapped in a conductive material (such as aluminum foil).

Figure 1: Building a homemade Faraday cage: (a) gather tape, box, and aluminum foil,
(b) cover box and lid completely with foil, (c) line box with cardboard and store items, and
(d) close Faraday cage

What does it do?

The cage shields the contents from both electrostatic fields (i.e., fields that don’t change over time) and non-electrostatic fields (i.e., fields that do change over time). It is particularly useful for protecting against an electromagnetic pulse that may be the result of a nuclear detonation in the atmosphere (a.k.a. EMP attacks). Despite rumors to the contrary, a Faraday cage is not necessary to protect against solar coronal mass emissions because the frequency content of such disturbances is at much lower frequencies—they don’t couple enough energy into small-scale electronics. Solar emissions do however disrupt radio transmissions, damage satellites, and like an EMP attack, can potentially destroy the electrical power grid.

How does the cage work?

The free carriers in the conductive material rapidly realign themselves to oppose the incident electric field. If the cage is made from something non-conductive, the free carriers are not mobile enough to realign and cancel the incident field.

How thick should the conducting layer be?

The conductive layer can be very thin because of something known as the skin effect. That term describes the tendency of current to flow primarily on the skin of a conductor. As long as the conducting layer is greater than the skin depth, it will provide optimal shielding. The skin depth is a function of the frequency of the wave and the conductor material. As an example, consider that for a frequency of 200 MHz, the skin depth of aluminum is only about 21 microns. Therefore, wrapping a box in a couple of layers of heavy duty aluminum foil (typically about 24 microns thick) provides the necessary conductor thickness to protect against high-frequency radiated fields.

Does it matter what type of conductor is used?

Not much. The conductivity of nearly any metal is good enough to allow the carriers to easily realign to cancel external fields. For example, if silver (the best conductor) were used in place of aluminum, the skin depth at 200 MHz would be reduced to about 4.5 microns. Of course, the high cost of silver would prevent using it for such a purpose.

Can a Faraday cage have holes?

Yes, as long as the holes are small with respect to the wavelength of the incident electromagnetic wave. For example, a one GHz wave has a wavelength of 0.3 meters in free space. As long as the holes are significantly smaller than that dimension (i.e., a few millimeters), they won’t let in much of the incident wave. This is why fine conductive mesh can also be used for making a Faraday cage. In practice, the lid or door usually causes the most leakage. Taping the seam with conductive tape greatly reduces this leakage.

Can you use existing conductive enclosures?

Yes, there are many conductive enclosures that can be used, including ammo cans, metal garbage cans, anti-static bags, and even old microwave ovens. Each has its own level of effectiveness as covered in the book, Disaster Preparedness for EMP Attacks and Solar Storms.
Does the cage have to be grounded?

There is a great deal of confusion regarding grounding of a Faraday cage. Grounding of the cage (i.e., connecting it to some Earth-referenced source of charge) has little effect on the field levels seen inside the box. Grounding primarily helps to keep the cage from becoming charged and perhaps re-radiating.

Written by Dr. Arthur Bradley, author of the Handbook to Practical Disaster Preparedness for the Family, the Prepper’s Instruction Manual, and Disaster Preparedness for EMP Attacks and Solar Storms. To sign up for his free “Practical Prepper” newsletter, send an email to

newsletter@disasterpreparer.com

Disaster Preparedness for EMP Attacks and Solar Storms:
http://amazon.com/Disaster-Preparedness-Attacks-Solar-Storms/dp/1469941554

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-c1VKcA_nEGM/USlsnOjggeI/AAAAAAAAA14/IR-IbMSwuT4/s1600/Faraday+Cage+photo.jpg

[robertr2m]

I've made two "cages". Both are smaller steel tool boxes, the kind that are hinged on one side and hasped on the other with a lockable hasp.

I sank a ground stake (local hardware had them or you can use rebar ((but will corrode over time) just outside the garage wall and ran the ground wire through the wall (10AWG).

Wire brush off the paint where you want it connected and bolt the wire to the box (leaving enough slack to pull the box off of the shelf). Make sure to paint the area you brushed after connecting the wire since corrosion can eventually act as an insulator.

I was concerned about the lid not making a proper ground with the body so I used a smaller gauge wire and connected them together above and below the hindge.

Testing was done with a cell phone and walkie talkie's. I keep a coil, cap and rotor and voltage reg as well as fuses for my old truck and various comm devices so.

Hope this helps :)

Be safe, R2

[robertr2m]

Sure. As long as they are in the cage.