Ego? Duality? Nonsense!

[Chicodoodoo]

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Warning: Sacrilege ahead.

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Reminder: Do not shoot the messenger. Attack the ideas.

Purpose: The pursuit of truth.

Catalyst: Go home and rethink your life.

Tools: Question everything, dismiss nothing.

Hypothesis: Duality does not exist, ego is not necessarily bad

Summary:

There is no duality. We are steeped in the idea of duality, but it is an illusion. It is a function of our language and our way of comparative thinking. These are not “polarities”: Yin – Yang, Male – Female, Good - Bad, Selfless - Egotistic. They are simply points on a continuum. We identify them as opposites, but in truth they are relative measures of a particular thing. Think of this measure as a slider, like the volume control on an amplifier. When the slider is all the way to the right, we have “loud”. When all the way to the left, we have “quiet”. The thing we are controlling, or measuring, is the amplitude of the sound waves. It is a real phenomenon, it exists, and we have labels to describe it.

Male and female are variations of the same thing, a measure of gender. We like to believe you are either one or the other, and this is true most of the time. But there are exceptions that challenge our notions of gender. And from the embryonic development standpoint, it is clear that the same physical structures are present in both males and females, though highly modified.

Good and bad are measures of the same thing, a measure of benefit. Those that say there really is no good and bad are, in a certain sense, correct. Good and bad are really only relative positions on the slider measuring benefit. However, benefits do exist, and they are real.

Then we come to egotistic and selfless. What are we measuring there? We measure the degree to which self benefits as opposed to others. But here the slider model doesn’t really work. It is possible for the slider to be in two positions at once, i.e. we can benefit others and ourselves. Our sense of self, our internal identity, is what we call the ego. It has very little to do with what we are measuring here. In fact, I find it very unfortunate that the labels we use to measure the relative benefits to ourselves and others are “selfless” and “egotistic”. When we greatly benefit others with less benefit to ourselves, have we lost our sense of self? No. To the contrary, I think it is a very mature sense of self that allows us to behave in this admirable manner. Likewise, it is an immature, poorly developed sense of self that makes us behave in a “selfish” manner (another misleading label). Given the unfortunate choice of descriptive words we use here, it is easy to see why the confusion is so great.

Several times in the Avalon forum, I have remarked on the immense difficulties of communicating clearly with the language we have at hand. “The words get in the way.” Even when you choose your words carefully, misunderstandings are rampant, because people understand the meaning of words differently.

“It depends upon what the meaning of the word 'is' is,” said Bill Clinton (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4XT-l-_3y0).

[greybeard]

There is no need to worry Chicodoodoo.
Every enlightened teacher says virtually the same thing you have posted here.
They live in unity consciousness.
All belief systems to go, all concepts etc.
They have to meet us where we stand though.
They know that ego is just a thought an identification with the me story in the head it has no foundation in reality it is nonexistent it is the illusion the creator of Maya.
It is ok to have good self esteem, you are a unique aspect of One, that is not ego in this use of language.

So having met us where we stand in duality they help us to remove obstacles to see clearly that we are in union with all.
In that state the enlightened one is more alive more aware that we are in a normal state.
They see things as they really are without the filter of subconscious mind
Scientists are now proving that we are linked to the furthest star and everything else.
There is only one energy which solidifies at different vibration rates to take up the billions of forms in the universe

Its a complex subject though considering it is talking about an illusion a mere thought.

chris

[giovonni]

Thank you my Friend,

Sometimes when you do thinketh too hard, i have to admit it is truly worth pondering upon :clap2:

[king anthony]

I say, 'it is what it is'; why need to complicate the uncomplicated as most do - (with labels); as such things only feed arrogance and give comfort to those in need.

Does it matter to a picture, which color is more; or does the observer see the picture as it is - in the whole!? Do not the divisions of 'black and white', 'he or she, and 'them and us' create what unity is not!?

How does separation of anything aid in the survival and judgment of the whole!? Does not the voice of one, or some, continue the struggle which the whole wishes to escape from!?

Are not things simply what they are - cycles within existence with drama created by thought!?

I say, how is denying one way and accepting another better; does not the possibility to repeat that which has been before exist - cannot there be something new, such as true equality without resurrecting old ways!?

Duality is an illusion, a tool for the few and comfort for those who need.

I say, take heed not to perpetuate inquiry, as nothing will ever be gained; and the birth of duality is by the womb of 'ego'. For sure, words have power based on meaning, 'depends upon what the meaning of the word is' - only those with ability, will understand.

[Zook]

=========
Warning: Sacrilege ahead.
=========
Reminder: Do not shoot the messenger. Attack the ideas.
Purpose: The pursuit of truth.
Catalyst: Go home and rethink your life.
Tools: Question everything, dismiss nothing.
Hypothesis: Duality does not exist, ego is not necessarily bad

Summary:
There is no duality. We are steeped in the idea of duality, but it is an illusion. It is a function of our language and our way of comparative thinking. These are not “polarities”: Yin – Yang, Male – Female, Good - Bad, Selfless - Egotistic. They are simply points on a continuum.
[...]


Well, Chico, everything that originates from the zero point is part of the continuum, technically speaking. Even dark matter and light matter can be argued as extensions of the same continuum. Having said that, light matter and dark matter can be argued as dualistic extensions of the continuum. Taken further, unity can be argued as an attribute of the zero point; and indeed, the very definition of the zero point prior to expansion. Coaxed off the zero point, unity doesn't exist so much as itself, but as an extension of itself ... one of these extensions being duality.

To wit, duality is an extension of unity; indeed, it is the most common extension of it ... certainly, humans understand duality better than they do either unity or the trinity.

:smow::typing:

ps: I'm a dualist myself, which really means I'm of the unity, e.g. an extension of it.

ps2: I like the way you think ... and the way you challenge thinkers to better thought.

[Chicodoodoo]

Well, Chico, everything that originates from the zero point is part of the continuum, technically speaking.

{Chuckle} OOOOkaaay... That doesn't tell me what the zero point is, if it even existed, how we know it existed, how it could exist, what came before it, what "space" (container) it existed in, and on and on down the list of unanswered questions.

But you sure make an impressive-sounding argument. Are you sure you weren't one of those ancient Greek philosophers that could argue the pants off any opponent, and then switch sides on the issue and do it again? It's almost enough to make me believe in reincarnation!


To wit, duality is an extension of unity; indeed, it is the most common extension of it

As I see it, it is a misinterpretation of unity, not an extension.


I like the way you think ... and the way you challenge thinkers to better thought.

Thanks. I am here to challenge rigid thinking, both my own rigid thinking and the rigid thinking of others.

[Teakai]

I agree, with that, Chicoodoo.
My visual take on it is like people standing in a line each shining a torch (flashlight) on a wall. The closer you hold the torch, the smaller and more defined the light, as you draw back the torch the circle expands the the line of definition blurs - going back even further the light of each of the torches blends and becomes unified.

In regard to the duality part it is just looking at the before = separate individual consciousness and the after = united consciousness.

Different perceptions of the same light.

[truthseekerdan]

Thanks. I am here to challenge rigid thinking, both my own rigid thinking and the rigid thinking of others.

To be able to do that, one needs to "free the mind" (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?8689-Understanding-is-everything...)... ;)

[ROMANWKT]

Chico, one cannot function here as light or darkness, one has to assume the centre of scale, hense there you are and from that stance a choice is made by you of who you think you are. and that will set a role you wish to play, hense ego. Light, ego, dark, the real trinity?? form still centre all power to you.

Did you ever read my nonsense????

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?15834-Its-all-nonsense-part-1

[truthseekerdan]

The ego in its natural form is best suited to harmonize or give unity to the mind. The ego in its simplest form is best equipped to organize and provide balance to the mind. Balance means that one is harmonizing with and not resisting the forces that begin to alter perception and the sense of self. However, a complex or inflated ego can block us from understanding the source of any fundamental truth, including our love of life, others and essential nature.

[Chicodoodoo]

Did you ever read my nonsense????

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?15834-Its-all-nonsense-part-1

No, I haven't. I just took a brief look at it (I didn't realize it was so long), and it is quite the elaborate belief system. Whenever I see something that elaborate, I always question the premise, which in this case is in the first sentence: "We know that there is a law in the universe, and all others are derivatives of this law." How do we know that?

Sorry, I can't help myself.... It's that darn "question everything" tool.

[RedeZra]

Nature is neither good nor bad but neutral


Nature is united til Man comes along and divides it by his thinking

still Nature is united but Man is divided by himself and in himself


Unity can not be reached by a clever thought but by an honest heart


God has put His standard in our hearts and not our heads

[Teakai]

The ego in its natural form is best suited to harmonize or give unity to the mind. The ego in its simplest form is best equipped to organize and provide balance to the mind. Balance means that one is harmonizing with and not resisting the forces that begin to alter perception and the sense of self. However, a complex or inflated ego can block us from understanding the source of any fundamental truth, including our love of life, others and essential nature.

I know there's a lot of theories about what ego is and what it's not, but in the end - isn't ego simply the belief of who we are attained from the five senses?

I think our society - those driving and designing our society - have played and preyed on us believing that we are the illusion they feed us.

I have wondered what humanity would be like - if from the day a human is born they are raised and educated knowing that they are not simply the information taken in from their 5 senses. If they were educated in the ways of things esoteric and with true knowledge - would ego then exist?
Does it only exist today due to the lies we are told about ourselves?

[Zook]

Well, Chico, everything that originates from the zero point is part of the continuum, technically speaking.
{Chuckle} OOOOkaaay... That doesn't tell me what the zero point is, if it even existed, how we know it existed, how it could exist, what came before it, what "space" (container) it existed in, and on and on down the list of unanswered questions.


The zero point is the limit of the extrapolation of time and space back to the original state. The singularity of time and space in the narrative of the Big Bang. In other narratives, there is no zero point but the state of space in zero time. Which begs the question, can we negotiate the conscious realm with an understanding of infinity that falls short in some details? If so, we can also understand the zero point without knowing all its details. Regardless, the proposition of unity understands that discrete boundaries are a part of the unity, like walls in a house.

To wit, the separating wall between two rooms creates duality ... the two rooms and the separating wall each belong to the larger unity called the apartment. Alternatively, to each of various nested unities (e.g. upstairs; downstairs; the whole house; the whole neighborhood; the whole municipality ... etc.; etc. ... the whole planet; the whole system of planets; etc.; etc.).



But you sure make an impressive-sounding argument. Are you sure you weren't one of those ancient Greek philosophers that could argue the pants off any opponent, and then switch sides on the issue and do it again? It's almost enough to make me believe in reincarnation!


They gave Socrates hemlock when he wanted hope. You give me hope, Chico ... you have my gratitude. :jester:




To wit, duality is an extension of unity; indeed, it is the most common extension of it
As I see it, it is a misinterpretation of unity, not an extension.


Two rooms and a separating wall inside an apartment observe both unity and duality. It is easier to make the case that unity (e.g. apartment) accommodates duality (e.g. rooms) ... than that duality accommodates unity. Ergo, I've extended unity to duality. A mother and her twins, as it were.




I like the way you think ... and the way you challenge thinkers to better thought.
Thanks. I am here to challenge rigid thinking, both my own rigid thinking and the rigid thinking of others.

Like I said, Chico, you give me hope.

:smow::typing:

[Davidallany]

Hi Mr. Chicodoodoo. Is it ok if I reply to this thread?

[Gardener]

Hypothesis: Duality does not exist, ego is not necessarily bad

I agree, simply put, the world and the ego do not exist to be overcome becaue they are assumed 'bad'. A well integrated person has ego 'strengths' which assist with interactions in the world which benefit others and in doing so benefit self; ego antipathies are learned usually before the age of 5 for protection from hurt. They have a purpose at the time.

The continum of opposites I fully agree with, sort of a see-saw, standing in the midle balancing the ends according to personal perception. However, evil as a construct, I see as working against another for self gain.

Ok its late here, but just wanted to stick my oar in on this interesting subject. (ty chico)

g:peep:

[Chicodoodoo]

The zero point is the limit of the extrapolation of time and space back to the original state.

Extrapolation, as practiced by humans, is a straight line. It assumes no variation, no changes, nothing complex, nothing unexpected, and nothing yet to be learned. If the state of reality is represented by some complex curve (I seriously doubt it's a straight line), and we are somewhere on that curve, extrapolating back in time using a straight line has almost no chance of arriving at the curve's starting point, even if the curve had a starting point. And we want to talk about that theoretical zero point as if it has meaning? I just can't do it. Another premise lost.....


To wit, the separating wall between two rooms creates duality

To me, that's like dividing a number line and saying we have duality. No matter how many times we divide the number line, there is only one number line stretching off into infinity in both directions. Wait! There is duality! Two directions! Oh, right, somehow they both go to the same place, infinity, so we're back to unity.


They gave Socrates hemlock when he wanted hope.

I'm still angry about that.


Like I said, Chico, you give me hope.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgDrJ5Z2rKw

[Chicodoodoo]

Hi Mr. Chicodoodoo. Is it ok if I reply to this thread?

You need not ask. The thread is open to all. Be my guest.

[Gardener]

Chicodoodoo

To me, that's like dividing a number line and saying we have duality. No matter how many times we divide the number line, there is only one number line stretching off into infinity in both directions. Wait! There is duality! Two directions! Oh, right, somehow they both go to the same place, infinity, so we're back to unity.

Come back from infinity, we are'nt there yet :), we are still in 3D (well I am), take away direction, 'out there, over there' Ok, add context, where is duality now?

[truthseekerdan]

The ego in its natural form is best suited to harmonize or give unity to the mind. The ego in its simplest form is best equipped to organize and provide balance to the mind. Balance means that one is harmonizing with and not resisting the forces that begin to alter perception and the sense of self. However, a complex or inflated ego can block us from understanding the source of any fundamental truth, including our love of life, others and essential nature.

I know there's a lot of theories about what ego is and what it's not, but in the end - isn't ego simply the belief of who we are attained from the five senses?

I think our society - those driving and designing our society - have played and preyed on us believing that we are the illusion they feed us.

I have wondered what humanity would be like - if from the day a human is born they are raised and educated knowing that they are not simply the information taken in from their 5 senses. If they were educated in the ways of things esoteric and with true knowledge - would ego then exist?
Does it only exist today due to the lies we are told about ourselves?

Hi Teakai, great question. I would say that as long as one (soul) is born in a physical body that has a brain, will also have a 'natural/basic instincts vehicle' a.k.a. as the ego. I did mentioned in my last sentence, that a complex or inflated ego can be somehow compared with a driver in a car, thinking that (s)he is actually the car itself and not the driver. The identification with the body thru conditioning, etc., creates a defensive "animalistic behavior" of separation that is called an inflated ego. Hope this makes sense, if not -- read more here. (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?860-Enlightenment-The-Ego-what-is-it-How-to-transcend-it.&p=13138&viewfull=1#post13138)

Blessings ~ Dan :love:

[Jayke]

I heard David Hawkins explain the nature of duality in a way that really struck home with me, he said "There is no such thing as darkness, there's only light and an absence of light"

everything exists in a cycle, even looking at the chakra system for example, anyone would think that the red (root) chakra would be the opposite of the purple chakras because they're at opposite ends of the chakra system, what most people forget to realise is that purple is a blend of blue and red, one rainbow always blends into the next rainbow, it's the nature of the cycle, we always end up where we began.

likewise as our planet spins we're either facing the sun or we've got our back to it, the amount of light in the universe never changes, the only thing that changes is our perception of it. There can be no battle between the light vs the dark forces, as even lighting just a small candle will bring light into a room, alchemy is just the process of shining light into a darkened space, taking a low vibrational space and filling it with energy. Ego vs others then is a matter of either only having enough light to see yourself or have you expanded your light beyond yourself to be able to take everyone around you into consideration.

Stephen Covey says in his 7 habits of highly successful people that one of the principles of success is to be able to discern the win/win solution to any situation, it has to benefit you as well as the other, this is mirrored in the law of one material where they say the goal of a 5th dimensional entity is to learn how to be unconditionally loving while at the same time not giving ones personal power away in the process, tough love can be seen to create darkness but really it just creates a temporary spin that fleetingly positions you with your back towards the light before spinning further and coming to face the light once again.

[Jendayi]

@Chico: thank you for sharing your wonderful view on duality.. i tend to agree with what you are saying...
keep inspiring us with your unique mode of thought!
namaste

[Mad Hatter]

Any discussion of cycles of any description implies a polarity(duality).

A unity state implies no polarity(duality)... leaving you with nothing but the potential for everything (ie Zero Point or an undisturbed field of pure energy.)

So the point of striving toward unity conciousness would be??

Non sense indeed... anyone found a working tri-ality?? :cool:

[TimelessDimensions]

When you follow only your own free will while respecting the free will of others to do the same,

Nothing can go wrong..

But when someone forces their will on others then this is the start of cancer, duplication.

Now think about religion and mass media. Behave like a cancer too no?

No two trees are exactly the same ;)

[Zook]

The zero point is the limit of the extrapolation of time and space back to the original state.

Extrapolation, as practiced by humans, is a straight line. It assumes no variation, no changes, nothing complex, nothing unexpected, and nothing yet to be learned. If the state of reality is represented by some complex curve (I seriously doubt it's a straight line), and we are somewhere on that curve, extrapolating back in time using a straight line has almost no chance of arriving at the curve's starting point, even if the curve had a starting point. And we want to talk about that theoretical zero point as if it has meaning? I just can't do it. Another premise lost.....


Still, the limit - whilst beyond measure - is not beyond faculty of reason (or intuition). We cannot measure infinite volume but we have some concept of it. What is accessible to us, we play in ... what is not, we daydream in.





To wit, the separating wall between two rooms creates duality
To me, that's like dividing a number line and saying we have duality. No matter how many times we divide the number line, there is only one number line stretching off into infinity in both directions. Wait! There is duality! Two directions! Oh, right, somehow they both go to the same place, infinity, so we're back to unity.


About rooms and the separating wall ... we can break down the wall and attain unity (e.g. continuity of space). But then, for what purpose do we have walls in the first place if not to create functional duality? Feng-shui duality?

http://feng-shui.lovetoknow.com/Concept_of_Yin_and_Yang

IMHO, duality is one of the primary modes, and meanings, of third density existence. We do not deny the air we need to breathe ... so why should we deny the many dualities (without which we cannot exist)?

Chicodoodoo: "Hypothesis: Duality does not exist, ego is not necessarily bad"

Again. I respectfully submit that duality not only exists, but it is a fundamental essence of material existence. Here, we can accommodate both unity and duality, e.g. by extending unity into duality (via compartments).

:smow::typing:

[aroundthetable]

The vedic perspective is that there is pure ego and false ego. Pure ego is our eternal identity, our personality. Trying to get rid of your real eternal identity is described as being like spiritual suicide. False ego however is described as identifying with the body, i am this body, i am white, i am english etc etc, all these denominations are based on identifying with the body and this is described as the illusion and is the basis of false ego. Thus, pure ego is good, false ego is not.

[truthseekerdan]

Ego stands for something dualistic -- so I would say that "pure ego" does not exist in MHO. However, I do agree that everyone has a "pure essence" that of a soul energy that is not dualistic, and therefore does not have an ego. :)

[aroundthetable]

Ego stands for something dualistic -- so I would say that "pure ego" does not exist in MHO. However, I do agree that everyone has a "pure essence" that of a soul energy that is not dualistic, and therefore does not have an ego. :)

Thanks Dan. I use the term as is used in the vedas, that is pure ego is our pure personality, thus ego IS our personality, and that is eternal, you will always be you, i will always be me, but the pure me and the pure you, is the pure ego, the pure personality. So i think we agree even though we understand the words differently. :) It is the false ego that is dualistic, because of identification with the dualities of the material world.

God bless Dan :)

[truthseekerdan]

Ego stands for something dualistic -- so I would say that "pure ego" does not exist in MHO. However, I do agree that everyone has a "pure essence" that of a soul energy that is not dualistic, and therefore does not have an ego. :)

Thanks Dan. I use the term as is used in the vedas, that is pure ego is our pure personality, thus ego IS our personality, and that is eternal, you will always be you, i will always be me, but the pure me and the pure you, is the pure ego, the pure personality. So i think we agree even though we understand the words differently. :) It is the false ego that is dualistic, because of identification with the dualities of the material world.

God bless Dan :)

It's all a matter of translations and interpretations. Nothing written in the translated scriptures is "pure" anymore due to editing, mistranslations, etc. -- therefore for the sake of it I agree with you my friend. ;)

Love and blessings :love:

[Chicodoodoo]

I heard David Hawkins explain the nature of duality in a way that really struck home with me, he said "There is no such thing as darkness, there's only light and an absence of light"

Yes! And another way of saying it that removes the deceptive duality of comparing two things ("light and the absence of light") is "There is no darkness, there are only degrees of light."

[truthseekerdan]

I heard David Hawkins explain the nature of duality in a way that really struck home with me, he said "There is no such thing as darkness, there's only light and an absence of light"

Yes! And another way of saying it that removes the deceptive duality of comparing two things ("light and the absence of light") is "There is no darkness, there are only degrees of light."

Or you can put it in a another way that will seem dualistic: "There is no darkness, there are only degrees of absence of light." ;)

[Peace of Mind]

I hear you chicodoodoo, it's becoming quite a task communicating these days. I suspect some if not all words may have hidden meanings....or the frequency of some words may be emotional triggers. I'm almost certain the vibration/pitch we use during speak has more power than we believe they do. More explained below...

http://projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=17507

btw, thanks for the thread

Peace

[Davidallany]

You need not ask. The thread is open to all. Be my guest.
My apologies, I am new here and still confused about when I can and can not post replies to what threads. Since I don't want to offend anyone, I was asking.

My reply is:
I totally agree with you about the non intrinsic existence of dualities.

[RAKMEiSTER]

i came by this, cause he, subscribed to YT. chan. and so i checked and he felt like an old friend. than listening it, and well we're on level. and since he says it well. it doesnt need me to add onto. at this time*.

ALL is the SELF; There is Only the Self (Complete Satsang Dialogue) ~ Mooji

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNmmXb1OlUI

"Jiva is Shiva; follow the footsteps of 'I AM'." (Mooji)
Ed note: This auspicious dialogue took place at a time when laryngitis was a possibility for Mooji at any moment. Even so, That which speaks through Mooji points us to the Truth of our many questions about reality, and addresses many issues, not the least of which is: the only remedy for suffering on the planet

Trying to Make Life a "Certain Way" ~ Mooji

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0avaWTpBbcE

"See if the one living life is real." (Mooji)

RE: greybeard. see *note, and im off to bed. woke up(premature 2.5 hour sleep) cause i had to deal with some snakes@CA that brough me out a my sleep as my feel is "good".
but yes. even when quoting the veda material. its still also the interpretation, of that era and them researchers working on it. even the original veda docs would not be IT. as the hole answer.(tbh you can best drop it all its(looking into the veda for "thruth"" as you allready have it al,. and is the past and inrelevant for the here and now*.(minor add for context) and wont help you along the way) and well we were here before that era. at least i was. cant speak for others. but duality well. simple answer would be yes . its a requirment of teh vibratory world we perceive us to live in. to experience. (ego im not touching now)( and here i go, didnt wanted to add lots. and this is allready more than i wanted to say.
*note meant, ill see watch this thread. and where i see fit ill add onto,. what i think or etc.

be well

[greybeard]

RAKMEiSTER thanks for the Mooji videos.
One of my friends went to see him in London.
As you said What can you say or add??

The enlightened ones may have different ways of expressing it but they all say exactly the same thing.

Chris

[Chicodoodoo]

I hear you chicodoodoo, it's becoming quite a task communicating these days. I suspect some if not all words may have hidden meanings....or the frequency of some words may be emotional triggers. I'm almost certain the vibration/pitch we use during speak has more power than we believe they do.

Those are all very good observations, and I enjoyed your old-Avalon thread! Thanks for linking to it.

[Mad Hatter]

I heard David Hawkins explain the nature of duality in a way that really struck home with me, he said "There is no such thing as darkness, there's only light and an absence of light"

Yes! And another way of saying it that removes the deceptive duality of comparing two things ("light and the absence of light") is "There is no darkness, there are only degrees of light."
OK left neuron now in full overdrive... As best as I currently understand, (pretty much nothing) light as described today is apparently both a particle and a wave.

As a particle it is a unit of energy in the zero point field.
For transmission purposes it requires the duality of a waveform otherwise it could not go anywhere.

Since all we perceive is via an electro magnetic device referred to as the brain, thus inferring duality, would not infinity be about the size of the average head... It would therefore seem we have arrived at the concept of unity from duality!

Of course to approach this from the opposite direction, since science also shows us that thoughts influence this dualistic reality and by default unity in the form of the zero point energy field then would those thoughts not have to come from something external to both. Ie who made god??

[Chicodoodoo]

As best as I currently understand, (pretty much nothing) light as described today is apparently both a particle and a wave.

Remember how science appeared to be so primitive 1000 years ago? Our science today will appear equally primitive in 1000 years. I would not assume science has any real understanding of light, if I were you.

[Jayke]

As best as I currently understand, (pretty much nothing) light as described today is apparently both a particle and a wave.

Remember how science appeared to be so primitive 1000 years ago? Our science today will appear equally primitive in 1000 years. I would not assume science has any real understanding of light, if I were you.

Agreed, even Nassim haramein in his epic 8 hour online presentation (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6151699791256390335&hl=en#) gets into how the idea of the 'wave' in physics is a flawed concept, probably not best to base your logical thinking on an idea that's already been outdated. Would be like me trying to convince people the world is flat because we're not falling off lol we do the best with the info we've got though so it's all good, keep on pondering.

[Mad Hatter]

Remember how science appeared to be so primitive 1000 years ago? Our science today will appear equally primitive in 1000 years. I would not assume science has any real understanding of light, if I were you.
Yes I am aware of that potential as alluded to by Arthur C. Clarke’s 3rd law 'Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic'... by the same token, being merely human we are here in 3d plus time and until someone has a way of escaping this reality, besides dying, that can be taught in school then we can only work realistically of the base / confines of what we have. Limited it maybe but the Science, such as we know it, goes to inform Engineering which gives us the methods of production for a lot of what we enjoy today, despite as some wag put it "Scientists only need to convince their peers it is correct, whereas Engineers must be correct."


Agreed, even Nassim haramein in his epic 8 hour online presentation (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6151699791256390335&hl=en#) gets into how the idea of the 'wave' in physics is a flawed concept, probably not best to base your logical thinking on an idea that's already been outdated. Would be like me trying to convince people the world is flat because we're not falling off lol we do the best with the info we've got though so it's all good, keep on pondering.



Jayke despite Nassim Harameins fascinating take on things it is my understanding, although I may be wrong yet again, he has yet to be seriously scrutinised by the pointy end of the peer review process. He may yet turn out to be another Einstein, with all that that entails, but for now I am reserving judgment. I would however like you to point me in the direction of proof of where mainstream physics has at this point dropped the particle / wave duality concept for light in order that I might further educate myself on this issue. Thanks in advance...

cheers

[Jayke]

Jayke despite Nassim Harameins fascinating take on things it is my understanding, although I may be wrong yet again, he has yet to be seriously scrutinised by the pointy end of the peer review process. He may yet turn out to be another Einstein, with all that that entails, but for now I am reserving judgment. I would however like you to point me in the direction of proof of where mainstream physics has at this point dropped the particle / wave duality concept for light in order that I might further educate myself on this issue. Thanks in advance...

cheers

You're right dude, you are wrong yet again (your words), I'd just say you're not up to speed yet.
The only problem about being mainstream is that you're always going to be the last one to find out, I prefer to stay cutting edge.
The Schwarzschild Proton Paper has been reviewed and passed the scrutiny of the American Institute of Physics at the tail end of last year, it's official Nassim Haramein is our centuries Albert Einstein. It's my understanding that Nassim's insights explode the dual concept of particle/wave and replace it with a unified theory of how light operates, feel free to reserve judgement as long as you like though, just be careful not to hold back so long that you get left behind.

[greybeard]

Jayke despite Nassim Harameins fascinating take on things it is my understanding, although I may be wrong yet again, he has yet to be seriously scrutinised by the pointy end of the peer review process. He may yet turn out to be another Einstein, with all that that entails, but for now I am reserving judgment. I would however like you to point me in the direction of proof of where mainstream physics has at this point dropped the particle / wave duality concept for light in order that I might further educate myself on this issue. Thanks in advance...

cheers

You're right dude, you are wrong yet again (your words), I'd just say you're not up to speed yet.
The only problem about being mainstream is that you're always going to be the last one to find out, I prefer to stay cutting edge.
The Schwarzschild Proton Paper has been reviewed and passed the scrutiny of the American Institute of Physics at the tail end of last year, it's official Nassim Haramein is our centuries Albert Einstein. It's my understanding that Nassim's insights explode the dual concept of particle/wave and replace it with a unified theory of how light operates, feel free to reserve judgement as long as you like though, just be careful not to hold back so long that you get left behind.

I tend to look at essence, I know nothing about science.
Nassim does it for me because he is applying logic that I can understand and also relate my understanding of duality to.
Having listened to his explanation of how he got started at a very young age and sensing the pure dedication to searching for truth I think he is likely to be correct in his findings regarding infinity and atoms.

Once again I post this awesome video.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Y5bXdx5UrE

[Chicodoodoo]

I tend to look at essence, I know nothing about science. Nassim does it for me because he is applying logic that I can understand and also relate my understanding of duality to. Having listened to his explanation of how he got started at a very young age and sensing the pure dedication to searching for truth I think he is likely to be correct in his findings regarding infinity and atoms.

Once again I post this awesome video.


Awesome is an understatement! I knew nothing about Nassim, and I just had my mind blown. And I do know something about science! Thank you so much for posting this. It's another one of those magic moments where I was blind, but now I see.

[greybeard]

I tend to look at essence, I know nothing about science. Nassim does it for me because he is applying logic that I can understand and also relate my understanding of duality to. Having listened to his explanation of how he got started at a very young age and sensing the pure dedication to searching for truth I think he is likely to be correct in his findings regarding infinity and atoms.

Once again I post this awesome video.


Awesome is an understatement! I knew nothing about Nassim, and I just had my mind blown. And I do know something about science! Thank you so much for posting this. It's another one of those magic moments where I was blind, but now I see.

Im so happy that people see this presentation by Nassim
He is is entertaining and clear in his presentation all done with great enthusiasm and humor
Chris

[Jayke]

Im so happy that people see this presentation by Nassim
He is is entertaining and clear in his presentation all done with great enthusiasm and humor
Chris

"All truth goes through three steps: First it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Finally, it is accepted as self-evident."

His work is one of those things where it's so simple you think to yourself 'how could it have been any other way', it just makes sense...delivered with such great spirit, a true pioneer.
Everyone should watch his full 8 hour presentation (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6151699791256390335#) found on google videos though if they want to have their minds blown several more times.

Marko rodin - vortex based mathematics (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7911972442098545165#) is another good one for left brain people to watch after seeing Nassims stuff about vortexes to get a better understanding of how it all links together in a mathematical sense.

[firstlook]

I believe in Cause and Effect. The free will spectrum allows one to fine tune choice in perception. We either see ourselves as Cause, The positive energy of duality, or as Effect, the negative energy of duality.

The trick is to establish the understanding that its not about the system you consciously reflect, whether you feel its dualistic or not, but instead how synchronistically (Is that a word?) you find your choices.

IMO that is the fastest way to experience the flow of communication and interaction.

We live within spheres of cycles, within spheres of cycles, within spheres of cycles, etc.....

Unity and Dualism are both just measurements within the infinite. Fun to ponder, but ultimately just vibrations to build upon.

IMO. :)

Peace

[greybeard]

I believe in Cause and Effect. The free will spectrum allows one to fine tune choice in perception. We either see ourselves as Cause, The positive energy of duality, or as Effect, the negative energy of duality.

The trick is to establish the understanding that its not about the system you consciously reflect, whether you feel its dualistic or not, but instead how synchronistically (Is that a word?) you find your choices.

IMO that is the fastest way to experience the flow of communication and interaction.

We live within spheres of cycles, within spheres of cycles, within spheres of cycles, etc.....

Unity and Dualism are both just measurements within the infinite. Fun to ponder, but ultimately just vibrations to build upon.

IMO. :)

Peace

According to Dr David Hawkins there is no cause and effect.
Things assume their own potential nohing is causing anything to happen.
There are screeds written on this in Enlightenment:Ego what is it? How to transcend thread.

Basically the sunflower seed has the potential of germinating. sprouting, has the the potential to be a bud and on to flower.
The environment may be a catalyst but it does not cause the flowering.
The sunflower seed can not become an acorn seed.
It can only realise its potential and that may not even happen.
It is the perfect seed it is the perfect sprout eventually it is the perfect dead plant.
There is an ascending or descending scale in non-duality.
Brilliant light ----dim---absence of light.
Darkness is non existent, you cant shine darkness.
Hope this helps.
Chris

Ps Dr Hawkins is in the state called enlightenment so what "he" says is not a concept, a belief system, or theory but what "is" in the non-dualistic world of the mystic.

[firstlook]

I believe in Cause and Effect. The free will spectrum allows one to fine tune choice in perception. We either see ourselves as Cause, The positive energy of duality, or as Effect, the negative energy of duality.

The trick is to establish the understanding that its not about the system you consciously reflect, whether you feel its dualistic or not, but instead how synchronistically (Is that a word?) you find your choices.

IMO that is the fastest way to experience the flow of communication and interaction.

We live within spheres of cycles, within spheres of cycles, within spheres of cycles, etc.....

Unity and Dualism are both just measurements within the infinite. Fun to ponder, but ultimately just vibrations to build upon.

IMO. :)

Peace

According to Dr David Hawkins there is no cause and effect.
Things assume their own potential nohing is causing anything to happen.
There are screeds written on this in Enlightenment:Ego what is it? How to transcend thread.

Basically the sunflower seed has the potential of germinating. sprouting, has the the potential to be a bud and on to flower.
The environment may be a catalyst but it does not cause the flowering.
The sunflower seed can not become an acorn seed.
It can only realise its potential and that may not even happen.
It is the perfect seed it is the perfect sprout eventually it is the perfect dead plant.
There is an ascending or descending scale in non-duality.
Brilliant light ----dim---absence of light.
Darkness is non existent, you cant shine darkness.
Hope this helps.
Chris

Ps Dr Hawkins is in the state called enlightenment so what "he" says is not a concept, a belief system, or theory but what "is" in the non-dualistic world of the mystic.

Precisely what I was trying to explain. Cause and Effect is a great catalyst in the idea of choice and manifestation. You Can be Cause or You can be Effect.

And as I stated before I believe......


The trick is to establish the understanding that its not about the system you consciously reflect, whether you feel its dualistic or not, but instead how synchronistically (Is that a word?) you find your choices.

So when I say Cause and Effect, its not in the sense of relation, but instead how we dictate our manifestation. Not in the classic sense of chemical reaction and probability.

Peace :)

[Zook]

My problem with ego ... is with those with ego problems great and small. Too small an ego is not the counter to too tall. Third density material existence contains both the dynamic ego and the point of ego balance, IMHO.

There is a point of balance, in each and all of us to find ... if and when we do the favor, kindly, without laboring blindly ... we'll effect the perfect binding of the modest and the magic, and the majesty of mind.

:yo:

ps: Humble opinions all around.

[oceanz]

I believe in Cause and Effect. The free will spectrum allows one to fine tune choice in perception. We either see ourselves as Cause, The positive energy of duality, or as Effect, the negative energy of duality.

The trick is to establish the understanding that its not about the system you consciously reflect, whether you feel its dualistic or not, but instead how synchronistically (Is that a word?) you find your choices.

IMO that is the fastest way to experience the flow of communication and interaction.

We live within spheres of cycles, within spheres of cycles, within spheres of cycles, etc.....

Unity and Dualism are both just measurements within the infinite. Fun to ponder, but ultimately just vibrations to build upon.

IMO. :)

Peace

According to Dr David Hawkins there is no cause and effect.
Things assume their own potential nohing is causing anything to happen.
There are screeds written on this in Enlightenment:Ego what is it? How to transcend thread.

Basically the sunflower seed has the potential of germinating. sprouting, has the the potential to be a bud and on to flower.
The environment may be a catalyst but it does not cause the flowering.
The sunflower seed can not become an acorn seed.
It can only realise its potential and that may not even happen.
It is the perfect seed it is the perfect sprout eventually it is the perfect dead plant.
There is an ascending or descending scale in non-duality.
Brilliant light ----dim---absence of light.
Darkness is non existent, you cant shine darkness.
Hope this helps.
Chris

Ps Dr Hawkins is in the state called enlightenment so what "he" says is not a concept, a belief system, or theory but what "is" in the non-dualistic world of the mystic.

Would the cause and effect be contained in the seed? A seed that only exists due to duality or in this case tri-ality as to reproduce (pollinate) requires male & femail parts of the plant and the assistance of bees to form a seed.

Is duality always in an infinite line or does it at some stage loop/circles around?

If it is theorised that space is finite and curved then is the condition set that this must be true of duality existing in a inner curved/circle of unity?

[oceanz]

Due to post about Sunflowers, it led me to find this:

Like sunflowers,
We create seeds
By doing good deeds

Everyday we plant,
Our garden grows
And so our life goes

What are the 7 kinds of sunflower seeds?

•White Mother Seeds
Deeds that nurture others, ourselves and nature. We create harmony and purity in mother nature.
•Violet Soul Seeds
Deeds that help us find our inner child by forgiving ourselves and others. We separate games and roles of the ego from our soul.
•Purple Peace Seeds
Deeds that we learn to master our emotions, find balance and tolerance. We create peace on earth and give service to our brother humans.
•Pink Heart Seeds
Deeds that show appreciation, gratitude compassion and creativity. Through love, we are transformed.
•Blue Word Seeds
We create our world with words that are kind, beautiful, truthful and helpful.
•Green Vision Seeds
Deeds that help us focus. We create positive images of ourselves and others. We listen to our inner voice and imagination.
•Yellow Sun Seeds
Deeds that are humble and open-minded. We learn wisdom and share what we learn.

[Davidallany]

Understanding lies in watching the thought, intentions and about to be born feelings, and it's done by bringing awareness to the third eye. Duality is necessary as long as a person is not awakened. It's also a way to tell an awakened person that they are sleeping.

[Chicodoodoo]

I believe in Cause and Effect. The free will spectrum allows one to fine tune choice in perception. We either see ourselves as Cause, The positive energy of duality, or as Effect, the negative energy of duality.

I like to question premises, the things our arguments are built on. Things like cause and effect.

It's easy to believe in cause and effect, because we can see so many apparent examples in our everyday existence. But what about cause with no effect? Or effect with no cause? Do they exist? Can we be sure they do not? Do we really have any idea what we are talking about?

[Zook]

Understanding lies in watching the thought, intentions and about to be born feelings, and it's done by bringing awareness to the third eye. Duality is necessary as long as a person is not awakened. It's also a way to tell an awakened person that they are sleeping.

Duality is a recognition of the limits of "third density" (e.g. material) existence. Indeed, duality emphasizes the limit of our awakening. To wit, we cannot awaken beyond a certain point in material existence. Concepts like infinity tend to fill the finite container (e.g. mind) ... but then begins the overflow.

With that in mind, duality cannot inform awakening by attenuation or by dissolution, except perhaps in the trivial sense of the final awakening (e.g. when the soul leaves the material body). But that event is already defined with words that are not really synonymous with duality.

In short, one can't have their cake and eat it, too. If you have unity in the larger sphere, then you can't compartment a smaller sphere (thereby creating an inner-outer duality), jump into the smaller sphere, and then announce from within this smaller inner sphere that there is no duality (or that you have ongoing familiarity with the unity in the larger sphere).

Humble opinions all around.

:typing::jester:

[Jayke]

I believe in Cause and Effect. The free will spectrum allows one to fine tune choice in perception. We either see ourselves as Cause, The positive energy of duality, or as Effect, the negative energy of duality.

I like to question premises, the things our arguments are built on. Things like cause and effect.

It's easy to believe in cause and effect, because we can see so many apparent examples in our everyday existence. But what about cause with no effect? Or effect with no cause? Do they exist? Can we be sure they do not? Do we really have any idea what we are talking about?

Can you find any examples in nature of cause without effect or effect with no cause? Looking at examples in nature is the easiest way to discern truth IMO, people can choose to go against the flow of life but nature doesn't have that luxury. My understanding of cause and effect comes from looking at gravity, the sun effects the planets, the earth effects the moon, the moon effects the tides and cycles of our planet, the tides effect a whole host of other smaller things around the globe, everything is caught in the gravity of something else. The sun doesn't really need to do anything to effect the planets, it's beingness is enough to keep us all in it's orbit. Is there anything dualistic about a planet spinning around a sun, a moon spinning around a planet, all looks like one unified solar system to me. It's only when we use our minds to label things that dualism comes into effect.

On a more practical level humans inspire each other all the time, often without consciously doing anything to inspire anyone, they'll watch a video or listen to music and feel inspired by it to the point that they're compelled to make their own video or make their own music, that music will then inspire maybe 10 other people who in turn are inspired to make videos of their own, and on and on and on, the entire thing can take on a domino effect of exponential growth. On this forum for example we have several hundred guests reading through these threads every day, can we assume that nothing they read will have any effect on them? what effectively inspired them to come here in the first place? Maybe something they learn they'll interpret their own way then post it on another forum and in turn inspires others. We can't truly know what gets caught in our gravity but it's a pretty safe bet to say that the gravity of these threads is having an effect somewhere along the line.

[Mad Hatter]

You're right dude, you are wrong yet again (your words), I'd just say you're not up to speed yet.
The only problem about being mainstream is that you're always going to be the last one to find out, I prefer to stay cutting edge.
The Schwarzschild Proton Paper has been reviewed and passed the scrutiny of the American Institute of Physics at the tail end of last year, it's official Nassim Haramein is our centuries Albert Einstein. It's my understanding that Nassim's insights explode the dual concept of particle/wave and replace it with a unified theory of how light operates, feel free to reserve judgement as long as you like though, just be careful not to hold back so long that you get left behind.

Hi Jayke,

Maybe it’s my lack of the benefit of a post modern education dude, but I feel that claims of mainstream acceptance which are based on winning a prize by handing your physics paper round an audience at a computer conference supplemented by claims of legitimate peer review by having it printed in conference proceedings by the AIP don’t quite cut the mustard for this little black duck.

You will note that the AIP (American Institute of Physics) has a press whereby if you staple together all the talks given during said conference they will print it for you. Being just the proceedings from a conference this is a far cry and entirely different to being published in ‘Physics Today’ which is the peer reviewed flagship journal of AIP. At this stage I am unable to find any mention of Nassim’s article in the Physics Today publication. Perhaps you would assist with a direct pointer to that.

This begs the question why, if Nassim is so sure that what he is espousing is correct, would he be making claims which to give the man the benefit of doubt, appear to be slightly economical with the truth?

Don’t worry about me being left behind with regard to the bleeding edge as I have been following the free energy issue(and others) since before you were born. In that endeavor I frequently have conversations with highly qualified people but that conversation only bears fruit when I can present them with information from people whose qualifications and output are difficult to argue with. Eg Dr Paul LaViolette and Superwave theory.

I do however hope that your excursions down the ‘rabbit hole’ so to speak, don’t meet with as many dead ends as I have experienced.

cheers

[Jayke]

Benjamin Fulford had an article recently about what people in the current authority think about alternate views other than their own, I've emboldened the phrases that seem relevant.


If any rational reader out there still believes the corporate propaganda media tells the truth, then read what the Tokyo correspondent for the Financial Times, Mure Dickie, had to say when explaining why the Foreign Correspondent’s Club of Japan could not hold a press conference promoting “alternative views.” What he was referring to was a request by spokespersons for the Yakuza, the Triads, the head of the world’s Martial Arts Societies and the White Dragon society to speak to the media. “We do not think what they have to say is in line with our world view,” he said.

When offered proof these people were for real and represented a major historical force as well as a unique opportunity in the history of the club to provide world breaking news, Dickie resorted to saying it was not “mainstream.” He admitted, in so many words, that he and his corporate propaganda colleagues would not let objective facts get in the way of their world view.

I heard once that revolutions tend to take place every 40 years or so, not because of any mystical forces at work or anything...just because that's how long it takes for people who were considered 'the peers' of their time to die or retire, with each generation new understandings and concepts are allowed to blossom because they're no longer being cut down by those in the mainstream who would rather defend their current world view instead of changing it to fit newly evolving evidence and paradigms.

Dr Paul LaViolette and Superwave theory looks interesting though, i'll check it out when I get some free time, thanks.

[Chicodoodoo]

Can you find any examples in nature of cause without effect or effect with no cause?

A cause without effect could be happening all the time all around us, but because there is no effect, we would be completely unaware of it.

An effect without cause happens all the time -- we call them mysteries. It is highly likely that there is a cause to every one of those effects, and we are just ignorant of the cause. The ultimate effect without cause is labeled "God", or "Source", or something similar, but again, that too is highly likely to be a manifestation of our ignorance.

[greybeard]

Could it be that creation and evolution are the same thing?
Chris

[Meembob87]

Hello all! I've been reading a lot and thought I would finally post on here for my first time. Some of the things said in this blog (like zero points) were unfamiliar to me, but essentially, I believe that most of us agree that in many areas (good and bad, loud and soft, etc.) there exists a continuum. However, a sliding scale is more difficult for the human mind to comprehend, so humans tend to simplify. Dualities "exist" to help us to make decisions more easily and to not be overwhelmed by the amount of choices we have in making decisions. So I wouldn't say that duality is an 'illusion' per se, but rather a tool. Young children, especially, are often taught in dualities in order to help them understand complex concepts, such as good and bad. However, this is a primitive tool and should be replaced in our thinking once we are capable of processing more information. From what I have read in "The Web that Has No Weaver," the Chinese seem to want to acknowledge a continuum in their concept of yin and yang, for they say that even something that is "yang," like a raging river has a "yin" component (pockets of still water)... and even in pockets of still water there exists yin and yang, etc. In order to benefit the human condition, however, the trick is being able to discard the crude tool of dualities for more comprehensive methods of thinking and evaluating.

[manny]

i am currently reading a new earth by eckart tolle.
although i can just about grasp of what he his stateng and find it very interesting i have a few questions.
i wonder if you may help.
1.what is the ego,everyone seems to just accept it.but is it the physical self,who wants needs,has been programmed to this 3d earth.
2.what is consciousness.the higher self?
now are the ego and consciousness two seperate beings ,as it seems so if i, as the physical(or ego) wants to connect to my higher self.
two seperate entities.one here in the physical and one in the spiritual(and all knowing)
if this is so then are we not just puppets to our higher self?
is it not the ego of our here and now that we need to be aware of and enlighten.
to retrain our thinking on this planet now.
or am i barking up the wrong tree.
thanks

[Jayke]

I feel it's important to remove the ego from the body, allow the self to fully posses the physical body then allow the ego to be like a pet that works for the self. A well behaved ego only has one role, to facilitate the expression of beauty, love, grace from the soul into manifestation in the physical world, if you give your ego any more responsibility than that then it'll lead you into trouble, you wouldn't ask your dog to drive your car...so it is with the body, take the pet out of the drivers seat and let it ride as a passenger, which means you take full responsibility for everything in your life and allow the ego to be the pet that stays by your side, it fetches things for you, it barks up trees in it's search for information and it barks to alert you to danger...treat it well, love it, care for it and it will be an immense ally as you journey through life.

Consciousness is the great mind, the all encompassing great spirit, god...the self then is the witness of consciousness, the witness of emotion, the witness of thought, it can experience those things but it doesn't get attached to them, it enjoys the presence of them without being pulled into the drama of it like the eye of the storm, it remains calm even when all hell is breaking loose around it, it stays centred amidst the storm of emotion.

The higher self is that aspect of us that's evolved to the point where it's almost merged back into unity with the great spirit (God, the ocean of consciousness,the infinite, the numinous... whatever you want to call it). So it's almost merged yet it still has an aspect of individuality, it works on behalf of god to send messages of joy, beauty, love, grace, synchronicities to the self. The language the higher self uses to communicate with us are those of greatest emotions ("follow your bliss" as Joseph Campbell used to say)

A person who's higher self, self and lower self (ego) are in complete alignment becomes like a vessel for the great spirit to flow through, like a flute consciousness can flow through them and create beautiful music in the world. A lot of people like to kill the ego to allow the great spirit to flow through them more easily, the less layers of self you have the more quickly consciousness can pass through them and manifest in the world. Although if your ego is obedient, well behaved and in alignment with the highest aspects of self then it becomes a great tool you can call upon whenever it's needed.

That's my take on it all anyway, although I know everyone has their own perceptions of it...on a side note as I was writing the word 'individual' earlier I noticed the words 'dual' and 'individed'. Funny how language itself holds wisdom...an individual is made up of an undivided duality, a wholeness of self, a unity. Similar to how the word 'signature' means 'sign of nature' but that's a topic for a different thread...:)

[Chicodoodoo]

1.what is the ego
2.what is consciousness.

You're definitely not barking up the wrong tree. Defining these terms is a major part of the problem, maybe even the whole problem!

I've seen and even experienced the difference between the states of being conscious and unconscious. I assume consciousness is related to being conscious, but I'll bet there are other people that would disagree. Then there's this related thing called a conscience. It's somehow related to our individual sense of identity and the internal feedback that produces within us, which is what I think of as "ego". And I'm saying all this not to lay down some fixed definition of terms, but simply to illustrate my immediate thoughts on the matter, which I realize are probably different from the thoughts other people have about "ego" and "consciousness".

My point is that you've asked a really good question, and I'd like to hear some of the answers myself.

[greybeard]

i am currently reading a new earth by eckart tolle.
although i can just about grasp of what he his stateng and find it very interesting i have a few questions.
i wonder if you may help.
1.what is the ego,everyone seems to just accept it.but is it the physical self,who wants needs,has been programmed to this 3d earth.
2.what is consciousness.the higher self?
now are the ego and consciousness two seperate beings ,as it seems so if i, as the physical(or ego) wants to connect to my higher self.
two seperate entities.one here in the physical and one in the spiritual(and all knowing)
if this is so then are we not just puppets to our higher self?
is it not the ego of our here and now that we need to be aware of and enlighten.
to retrain our thinking on this planet now.
or am i barking up the wrong tree.
thanks

Great questions manny
Consciousness is Higher Self
Eckhart Tolle has it right In my opinion, keep reading all will be revealed Lol

His book the Power of Now is perhaps an easier read and has sold millions of copies, it is a benchmark book.
It made the New York Times no 1 bestseller list.

Ego limits, is selfish and worries, it separates you from Higher Self and Creator.
Self esteem is healthy, positive.
Higher Self is the creative part of you not ego
In the zone, peak experiences are of Higher Self.
When you are filled with awe on the beauty of something, when you fall truly in love that is Higher Self, for quality love is not selfish needy or grasping.
Ego wants to own posess, that is not love, ego is nver happy for more than a moment.
It gets something and is happy for a short while then its. "Whats next?
It fears loss of its material possessions and that includes partner that it claims to love.
It is me and my possessions and that is one part of duality.
Regards Chris.

[truthseekerdan]

i am currently reading a new earth by eckart tolle.
although i can just about grasp of what he his stateng and find it very interesting i have a few questions.
i wonder if you may help.
1.what is the ego,everyone seems to just accept it.but is it the physical self,who wants needs,has been programmed to this 3d earth.
2.what is consciousness.the higher self?
now are the ego and consciousness two seperate beings ,as it seems so if i, as the physical(or ego) wants to connect to my higher self.
two seperate entities.one here in the physical and one in the spiritual(and all knowing)
if this is so then are we not just puppets to our higher self?
is it not the ego of our here and now that we need to be aware of and enlighten.
to retrain our thinking on this planet now.
or am i barking up the wrong tree.
thanks

Hi Manny,

To shortly answer your first question: The Ego is ones "False Identity".
Here is a more elaborate article about it, hope you'll enjoy it... http://deoxy.org/egofalse.htm
Also visit Greybeard thread about how to not identify with the Ego -- you'll find many 'gems' in there: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?860-Enlightenment-The-Ego-what-is-it-How-to-transcend-it.

For your second question: Consciousness is All There Is -- what humans call Creator God, Source, etc. Everything is part of IT, and it is the 'sum' of IT. The Great I AM, Omnipresent & Omnipotent.

Have you had a chance to read first The Power of Now by Tolle?
If not, I recommend that you read that one first, in order to understand better "A New Earth" which is more "complex" to start with. JMHO

Love and peace ~ Dan

[3optic]

i am currently reading a new earth by eckart tolle.


Hi Manny, using upper case "I" when referring to oneself is a sign of high self esteem. This is not to be confused with ego. One can never have too much of the former.

[shiva777]

Tolle's teachings will just lead you to surrendering to the "baseline" frequency that the controllers have set up through messing with your DNA..and hence controlling where your conciousness goes to when practicing Tolles(and others) techniques...it is of course a place of great relief for those who are tortured by their ego's..as it is meant to be ...careful,or you may end up like the awkward little "peaceful" geek that Tolle has become..those who are mastering their ego's DO NOT go to that distorted space..Tolle went there after being so overcome by his ego that he wanted to kill himself and in order to survive his ego FRAGMENTEDand he ended up where he is now

the ego is just your interface with the physical,emotional and mental levels of your self,it is there to be mastered not denied or by-passed...it is there as a tool and not to be discarded or surrendered to some distorted dimensional space or false "god"(as religions and people like Tolle teach)...Tolle is just making the Advaita Vedanta deception more understandable for westerners...religions are mind control devices and tolles teachings come straight out of one of the oldest and most clever mind control religions there is ..same deception repackaged and taught to deceive new generations...there are of course useful tools in his teachings but if you don't conciously align to the LIVING LIGHT you will end up in that same distorted "peace" that Tolle and countless others have ended up in

Tolle's teachings are designed for the new age deception where people surrender to a "higher dimensional" cage where they can be vampirised in a more" pleasant "manner for the being...he calls it the "new earth"...

Things are not as simple as many people would have you believe and people are desperate for "easy" escapes ...careful

[greybeard]

Advaita Vedanta deception----Wow.
It has stood the test of thousands of years before the birth of The Budha and Christ who said The Father and I are One.
Was Christ wrong, not to mention sages Avatars et all before him?

Anyway I see no point in trying to prove anything, the truth stands the test of time Shiva777.

Chris

[greybeard]

Anyway just believe in the God of creation and all will be well regardless.

Krishna said "Even those who run in the wrong direction are mine"

So if Im wrong its a so what!!!!

Namaste

[3optic]

Not feeling you on that Shiva. You're basically saying that a simple meditation on the breath or "what is" meaning whatever comes up when focusing on the gap between thoughts (overflow from the subconscious mind or even broadcasts from an external source) is some sort of trap or delusion. This is not helpful for those interested in a contemplative practice. In essence anyone who teaches mindfulness is advocating simplicity. It doesn't have to be so complicated and sinister.

[shiva777]

yeah,"it doesn't have to be so complicated and sinister"...but it has been and is..have you ever considered that the "keep it simple" approach may be a great tool to keep people ignorant and trapped...just at a more "blissful" level?...has Proj Avalon/Camelot not opened your eyes at all to how conciousness has been manipulated and the Annunaki and others have used the religions and false "gods" to control people through DNA?Conciousness manipulation?

well Chris,to begin with ,,,the "father" concept of God is one of the biggest deceptions..the "father" that the bible talks of is "jehovah" ,a vengeful and angry God that the bible teaches people to surrender to and FALSELY teaches that Jesus surrendered to...

God Source has no gender and is an ETERNAL LIVING LIGHT field,not the same field you end up in via "advaita vedanta" and other religious teachings,a field of energy vampirism..a clever deception that you don't seem capable to discern yet

and the deception has stood the "test of time",not the TRUTH...I know that you are very attached to Tolle and Hawkins teachings Chris...things are not as simple as you seem to think or "feel"...part of the evolution of conciousness is the recognition that "saints and avatars" gone by were deceived in to ultimately serving the FALSE oneness and corrupted dimensional spaces and "gods"..what is returning now is the physics and therefore Natural CONCIOUSNESS CHANNELS that allow us to not get caught in to those VERY clever and decieving traps that the so-called "enlightened ones" fell in to due to the PHYSICS/CONCIOUSNESS at the time only being able to "FALL" IN LOVE in to those dimensional spaces...when practicing meditation or Tolles techniques do a simple practice of surrounding yourself in LIVING LIGHT so you don't just open yourself to any energy or entity that wishes to invade your fields..just one simple safe guard...does Tolle teach any psychic self defence techniques or is he all about surrendering your ego to the "now"?..what does your "now" really contain?...

[Jake]

Consciousness is an endless field that emanates from Source. Consciousness cannot be possessed or claimed by any one individual. On that level, WE are ALL, there is only one. Any aspect of self that can be possessed or claimed is ego. IMO. Eventually we have to let go of ALL aspects of self and return to Source, and that is what it means to transcend the ego. The willingness to 'let go' and shed layers (fears/beliefs etc.) is paramount.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwyuQbIb0Xs

[shiva777]

yeah...ultimately you are right...but we are on a JOURNEY to source and on that journey there are many booby traps and lessons.Letting go is of course important...as are many other things.

I know many people don't get what I am saying and I know a few do...just surround yourself in LIVING LIGHT when surrendering and you may feel some great and NATURAL changes.. the false oneness and ascension is a very REAL thing and an agenda set up by negative entities that is very clever and "blissful"

[3optic]

yeah...ultimately you are right...but we are on a JOURNEY to source and on that journey there are many booby traps and lessons.Letting go is of course important...as are many other things.

I know many people don't get what I am saying and I know a few do...just surround yourself in LIVING LIGHT when surrendering and you may feel some great and NATURAL changes.. the false oneness and ascension is a very REAL thing and an agenda set up by negative entities that is very clever and "blissful"

Good point. I think any practice that advocates a preconceived belief system is suspect which is why meditation as critical investigation seems to be the best route. This is really all teachers like Sri Nissargadatta were saying. I don't recall him going on about a state of bliss. His teachings were devoid of dogma, Advaita Vedanta schools notwithstanding. The best teachers advise not to get caught up in more rigid thought structures. That includes happy stories about blissful states of "awareness."

[greybeard]

Shiva777
please name one spiritual teacher from the past who got it right please I am interested.
I like Tolle but there were Indian teacher that I listened to long before he came along.
I agree that Tolle has simplified things.
Any one who has read the life story of Ramana would know where the Truth is
Im not of any religion and when Jesus spoke of the Father I assume he meant the Creator, and was speaking of non-duality

Regards Chris

[shiva777]

again, are these people teaching you how to protect your fields when you "surrender" your ego,,,do you realise that when you meditate and you don't protect yourself,you are opening yourself to all kinds of beings,entities and energies and traps?...this isn't dogmatic thinking,this is experiential reality for countless beings,more and more of which are realising that they have opened themselves to energies that feed on them....many have been conned in to naively opening their "hearts",which links directly in to the astral field/4D ,which contains lots of very low level conditional love beings who are most happy to go for a ride in your fields...if you fill yourself with ETERNAL Living light then open your heart/4d interface, you will attract energies from the higher astral/4D and they will be very helpful

It's not about rigid thought structures..it's about awareness and not falling in to the "love,light and clueless" traps that so many have been conned in to defending and promoting so rigorously...

[3optic]

It's not about rigid thought structures..it's about awareness and not falling in to the "love,light and clueless" traps that so many have been conned in to defending and promoting so rigorously

This by my definition is a rigid thought structure. More succinctly: a Belief System. So I was supporting your POV... that is unless you are attached to your own rigid thought structure. :p

[shiva777]

so you are saying we should all just open ourselves to the "now" and whatever is out there and anything that says otherwise is a "rigid thought structure"?...could it be that the "just keep it simple" is a rigid thought structure and a trap to keep people ignorant?

[3optic]

so you are saying we should all just open ourselves to the "now" and whatever is out there and anything that says otherwise is a "rigid thoughgt structure"?

No not at all. I think discernment is very necessary. There is a general over reliance on Mind and it's storage of preconceived notions thought up by somebody else (guilty btw). Meditation I think can be an investigation of alternative tools in our "tool box". Intuition comes to mind. I'm fully with you're idea that it's problematic to buy into these notions simply because they feel nice.

[greybeard]

The moment there is a belief system or a concept there is duality, me and my belief which I identify with.

I was having spiritual loving experiences pre kindergarten school,
Reading spiritual text confirmed what already knew.
My parents were not religious I was not programmed in any way.
Its not about states of bliss they may or may not happen, they can be a ego trap too.
I put no head above my own.

We could discuss for ever and yes you make some good points Shiva777. I think it comes down to subjective experience.

Kundalini energy is a personal experience its not something you can make happen and it did before I read one word about it
That does not make me different or special we all have Kundalini but in some it is very active and in others not as yet.
Namaste

[Jayke]

Defining these terms is a major part of the problem, maybe even the whole problem!

Creating definitions in itself isn't a problem, buying into those definitions once you've created them and then believing them to be the only truth, a truth that everyone else should adhere to is where all the conflicts arise from. All words, all constructs come from the ocean of infinite possibility, Whenever we label anything we limit it's potential...like caging a bird we never get to see it soaring free in all it's glory, words just allow us the slightest glimpse of somethings true nature but they also limit our ability to see it in it's completeness, hence the saying "Sharp like a razor's edge is the path, difficult to traverse". Words are like sign posts, they can only point us in the right direction...they can't actually walk the path for us. They plant the seeds that map the path but we still have to nurture their growth within our beingness.



“Learn the form, but seek the formless. Learn it all, then forget it all. Learn The way, then find your own way”.

find your own terms, forget the terms...google 'the gateless gate' and ponder the stories within, zen philosophers understood the limitations of words when it came to teaching 'the way' so they developed stories and anecdotes that when contemplated and understood would allow the student to move into a state of awareness that exists beyond words.

The razors edge quote comes from a much larger extract from the Katha Upanishad (http://www.asianreflection.com/razor.shtml), which makes for some interesting things to ponder about ego and self IMO.

[shiva777]

yeah,subjective experiences are just that...you never seem to understand what I'm talking about Chris...the kundalini channels are one of the things that were messed with to lead right in to the false oneness that so many "enlightened ones" preach about.Subjectively very pleasing but with an open third eye and an objective inner vision some can see how those channels mislead and misdirect energies...more and more are seeing and feeling that....the hologram is being "corrected" and that means our own spiritual channels are being realigned to the LIVING LIGHT so that kundalini goes to where it is supposed to..

the Advaita Vedanta and no-concepts traps are very clever ways of convincing people to just go along for the MANIPULATED,UNNATURAL ride that the distorted hologram and false creator "gods" have created,so just regurgitating that type of thinking means very little when you understand the underlying corruptions

[meeradas]

[...] if you fill yourself with ETERNAL Living light [...]

"yourself" = body?

Then, how to proceed? [If you don't mind telling all here]

Thanks!

[greybeard]

Shiva777 you have not as yet mentioned one "sage" from the past who actually got it right.
Of course I dont understand your philosophy I suspect I am not the only one.
Mine is very simple Be kind to all life including your own no matter what and be devoted only to God.
He saved my life through AA, thats more than enough for the moment.
Wishing you well Shiva777
Good night
Chris

[shiva777]

yeah Chris,most teachings are very good in so many ways...it's the big teachings that many people are not ready for and that are not provided by many of the teachers...

.and I understand that you were in AA and have had a tough life and Tolles teachings were very helpful and that is maybe why you promote him and hawkins in the majority of your posts in this forum,they are helpful and contain many truths but they are also deceptive at deeper levels by what they leave out and are unaware of...false "gods" and distorted "conditional love" spaces have "saved" many people ...love,light and AWARENESS are needed

"yourself" means your station of identity...your subjective awareness in this realm...just ask that ONLY GodSource or the Eternal Living light fill your energy fields ,breathe them in,saturate yourself in them and before meditation ask to only connect to the ETERNAL LIVING LIGHT...simple things like that can be all that is needed to get you on the path of TRULY feeling the Source of your awareness,,,ask that all dark entities energies etc that do not align with Divine right order and timing ,that ONLY ETERNAL GODSOURCE can know, leave your energy fields...simple things like that can be very powerful

Any teaching or guru who is not teaching you these things is probably part of the control structure and doesn't know it...some do

[Chicodoodoo]

Words are like sign posts, they can only point us in the right direction...they can't actually walk the path for us.

zen philosophers understood the limitations of words when it came to teaching 'the way' so they developed stories and anecdotes that when contemplated and understood would allow the student to move into a state of awareness that exists beyond words.

Words are just a means to an end, and that end is understanding. The philosophers' stories serve the same purpose, and they too use words. I kind of envy the ETs that communicate telepathically, but then again, I wonder if their communications are any better at transferring understanding.

[truthseekerdan]

I kind of envy the ETs that communicate telepathically, but then again, I wonder if their communications are any better at transferring understanding.

You can bet on that! That is why they (most of them) are at a higher level of consciousness, because they can not use deceit, lies, etc. among themselves.

[arctourist]

who told you that,right?
i wouldn't be so sure about that,is all's i mean...
anyway,you can totally trust me-but don't be so sure about anyone else here!

[arctourist]

not only is there no duality,but in fact there is duality!

[Chicodoodoo]

I kind of envy the ETs that communicate telepathically, but then again, I wonder if their communications are any better at transferring understanding.

You can bet on that! That is why they (most of them) are at a higher level of consciousness, because they can not use deceit, lies, etc. among themselves.

I have to agree with arctourist. I don't know enough about any ETs to conclude that they cannot use deception and lies, or that they are at a higher level of consciousness. That assumption is a mighty big leap of faith.

[Ahvehvida Shahadaha]

Applause! All is All, 1 X 1 = 1 infinite and zero being the same value! Ahaha, best discussion we've seen tonight!

[truthseekerdan]

I kind of envy the ETs that communicate telepathically, but then again, I wonder if their communications are any better at transferring understanding.

You can bet on that! That is why they (most of them) are at a higher level of consciousness, because they can not use deceit, lies, etc. among themselves.

I have to agree with arctourist. I don't know enough about any ETs to conclude that they cannot use deception and lies, or that they are at a higher level of consciousness. That assumption is a mighty big leap of faith.

Chico, if the ET's are telepathic it means that they can read each others minds -- therefore my statement is true. However, they might be able to deceive and lie to humans if they choose to, since many of us are not telepathic. Hope this makes sense to you...

[Chicodoodoo]

Chico, if the ET's are telepathic it means that they can read each others minds -- therefore my statement is true. However, they might be able to deceive and lie to humans if they choose to, since many of us are not telepathic. Hope this makes sense to you...

Just as we can select whatever words we wish to speak, perhaps ETs can select whatever thoughts they wish to think when communicating telepathically amongst themselves. My point is that we cannot assume that they cannot deceive via telepathy. After all, what do we know about how ET telepathy works?