Ruby Ridge, Waco Texas and William Cooper - What Really Happened [Archive]

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king anthony

28th March 2011, 23:57

Here are three topics that some people may not be familiar with; other then what may have been heard in mainstream media or at the local coffee shop. These three stories are important, as to know history will aid the future.

Many people (here in Project Avalon) are aware of how the world has been, is now and will be - 'if' things continue as they are. Government control, police state, 'freedoms and liberties' taken away; and all the while, movements of individuals and groups saying 'no more' and claiming individual sovereignty.

This is not the first time people have thought like this; either by chance or design. The first two stories appear to go hand-in-hand, as Ruby Ridge was the first failed attempt at preventing a group of people to continue living off the 'mainstream grid'; and Waco Texas being the second failed attempt when the 'establishment' attempted to show competency after Ruby Ridge.

You be the judge of these three events. If you decide these events were not in the best interest of the masses, then be aware; as it will happen again and plan on this happening to you if and when you truly wakeup.

Ruby Ridge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_Ridge)

As a young boy runs towards his mother with the family dog, the "authorities" felt they had to shoot the young boy in the back - "killing him dead"; the dog was also shot. The "authorities" then felt they had to shoot the mother dead, after she came out to investigate; this was done as she was holding a baby in her arms.

After the authorities had begun their attack (invasion), you will see the 'protesters' carrying their signs, yelling 'foul play', having a peaceful protest and ultimately doing nothing to aid those being murdered just down the road.

Many of the civilian people on the 'ridge' were killed. The crime of these people - they wanted to live outside of mainstream society - to be free from the tyranny of the ruling class. This would not be the first time something like this happened; nor would it be the last. The following 1-hour video is the story of a girl (now grown up) who escaped.

Ruby Ridge Documentary

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4565369222910430105#

Waco Texas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_Siege)

Despite what mainstream media has portrayed, resulting in the common belief of 'facts', Waco Texas was an extermination of innocent people who simply wanted to live free. How they wanted to live is not the topic nor to be judged; rather, what took place in the final moments may be. Women and children were burnt alive in the buildings at the hands of the "authorities", and those who tried to escape the fire were shot dead as they attempted to leave the building.

This event was no different then what took place at Ruby Ridge - freedom failed because the masses failed to unite. The masses deserve what they get, as the establishment will target them (those who want freedom) next. This is not fear-mongering or a pessimistic view of things - but fact; 'peaceful thoughts', 'love and light' and 'happy wishes' did not save these people - nor will it save the others who will face the same. Two videos below, each about an hour long.

Day 51 - The True Story of Waco

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6765270087708355283#

Evidence includes, how not one shot was fired at officials from within the compound; yet officials fired numerous shots into the compound. Most of the evidence relied on in this video shows the 'infrared video footage' taken at the time - which was never released in mainstream media.

The only thing these people wanted to do was live "off the grid"; independent from mainstream society. All these people would be killed and portrayed to mainstream society as - 'crazy radicals from a militant religious cult'. This is long before the assassination of William Copper.

Waco - Rules of Engagement

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIUec0mYEMU

William Cooper (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milton_William_Cooper)

A man who 'stood alone' against the establishment was shot dead as he ran for his home; after ensuring his family was safe. His crime - he simply lived, while helping others. The video will explain whom this brave man was, what he did [or tried to do] for the benefit of all people, and how he died... by a bullet in the back on his front lawn.

The Hour of Our Time The Legacy of William Cooper

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8aCNhSDQKQ

All three examples were portrayed in a similar way in mainstream media; as a result, many would have little or no regard for these human beings who lost their lives. The examples shared, demonstrate what happens to those people who want to become sovereign and free - while the rest do nothing - other then talk.

Humble Janitor

29th March 2011, 01:04

I'm not sure that I buy either story about Waco, whether it's from the perspective of "freemen" or the U.S government. The "freemen" perspective seems to ignore David Koresh and just how dangerous he was to these people who chose to follow him.

king anthony

29th March 2011, 01:36

9eagle9

29th March 2011, 02:46

Right outside Waco to South East a bit is the sight of another massacre that took place in the late 1800's the federal government slushed over. Broken treaty. When the natives objected they were 'taken' care of. Not much to be found of it but talk at a local level but if you can find the right people in the area (natives) willing to talk they'll tell you about it. Even non local natives know about it, it was a Cherokee woman from Tennessee that took me to the area and showed it to me.

str8thinker

29th March 2011, 02:55

Likewise, opinions on Bill Cooper are highly polarized. Was he a legend or was he a loser?

I haven't clearly formed my own opinion about him yet.

http://billcooperdisinfo.webs.com/
http://ufocasebook.conforums.com/index.cgi?board=towers&action=display&num=1190488053
http://www.paranormal.me/?p=60309

Sierra

29th March 2011, 03:00

Damn ... that was nasty. The tar brush they use to demonize us one by one, is beginning to look familiar.

king anthony

29th March 2011, 03:06

Likewise, opinions on Bill Cooper are highly polarized.

Was he a legend or was he a loser?

There are differences of opinion; I never met the man so I remain silent - him being human, as others are, he did 'good things' and probably not 'good things'.

Regardless what he was, it does not change the fact he was shot in the back in front of his home.

Hybrid5226

29th March 2011, 04:14

The only danger Koresh had for the people of Waco or McLennon county was a different point
of view in religion compared to the Baptist religion that had been present for generations.

Waco is not that much different then it was 50 or 100 years ago when it comes to points
of few about family an religion an the surrounding opinion of how things are run .

If you are an outsider you have to keep your head down an know that since you are not from
around there that you pretty much don't know what you are talking about .

Seriously ....
I stayed in Waco for 6 months to consider if I wanted to live there.
The day we showed up at my mothers house 2 police officers knocked on my mothers door an
wanted to know who we were an where we came from .

I made the mistake of purchasing a piece of property a few blocks from the Koresh Compound
as a investment an when I went to the water company to get water lines added to the property
to raise the price of the property the family that run the water dept voted in favor of
not letting me have access to the water.

Went to the Electric company to have power poles put on the property an the response
was "I guess we have to move now" Outsiders are moving in .

I got a temp job at the local Jail while I was there an was followed to my mothers house
each night . Harrassed .

It goes on an on but my point is the circumstances that led up to what happened to Koresh
Were far from normal .

I was told by the locals .

Koresh kept to himself. It was the past Landlord an Koresh who had a disagreement an it
escalated from there an we all know what happened after that .

Fort Hood is located a short distance from the Koresh compound.
The Bush family ranch is located within 45 min driving distance.

I firmly believe in this small out of the way town that the influences from the Bush Family
had a lot to do with what happened to Koresh .

Of course this is all IMHO.
Peace.

TimelessDimensions

29th March 2011, 04:42

If you are not dependent on the trolls they will try to convince the public that you are a terrorist,

Although, things are a tiny bit different today, there are many successful Eco-villages all around the world, research the global eco-village network.

Thank you for this post, you are a real truth warrior :)

modwiz

29th March 2011, 04:48

Thank you King Anthony for posting these videos and your powerful words regarding these stories.

If we can remove these lies and toxins from our minds, little by little the truth about our government and media will come into focus.

Then, maybe we can navigate our way to a better future.

king anthony

29th March 2011, 04:55

modwiz

29th March 2011, 05:02

If we can remove these lies and toxins from our minds, little by little the truth about our government and media will come into focus.

Then, maybe we can navigate our way to a better future.

Agreed; however, the unfortunate reality is, the 'time' for "little by little" has long past. As 'time' is no longer on the side of the (sane) people; for the (insane) people, who are far less in numbers, will soon have their plan in full control - that is unless...

You are so very correct.

Something is needed to awaken the masses if a scenario that includes them is to unfold. Otherwise it will be unawakened and maybe many others who will face an unwanted and unnecessary future because of the soul drugging and foot dragging.

mondaze

29th March 2011, 05:09

here is the rub. The public are aware of these and other cases similar, and they don't care. They will wring their hands over any atrocity presented to them on Fox or BBC news and then stow it away in their minds to watch the next game show. Thus all are complicit with the crime. There is an old adage, when they came for the jews ....etc.

RedeZra

29th March 2011, 07:01

the writing on the wall

is here for all to see

it's closing in

if we miss this call

we're bound to break free

else accept second-class status

Humble Janitor

29th March 2011, 08:13

Lord Sidious

29th March 2011, 10:06

witchy1

29th March 2011, 10:25

If you are not dependent on the trolls they will try to convince the public that you are a terrorist,

Should people be allowed to lead cults and build huge compounds? Is government not right to be concerned about the lives of the people in those compounds?

I am not saying who is right or wrong, from what little I know Koresh reminded me of Jim Jones (of Jonestown and the mass suicide) and even perhaps Charles Manson

Just to put a spanner in the works..........why have they not done the same to the beautiful Amish people if this is the case???? Dont they fit the criteria that you are describing?

I dunno, just putting it out there (maybe they pay their taxes)

Gardener

29th March 2011, 10:31

Humble Janitor said.
Is government not right to be concerned about the lives of the people in those compounds?

How did they show concern for them?

king anthony

29th March 2011, 14:05

The "freemen" perspective seems to ignore David Koresh and just how dangerous he was to these people who chose to follow him.

The evidence appears to show differently.

So, we're supposed to believe the perspective of people who were there?

I just don't buy the idea that Koresh was not a dangerous man.

I say, when a 'person' goes for a walk, they are free to view that which they wish, and see what they see. Has it not been so, that every event to which 'they' have been a part of, been with much deceit!? How is it that the luxury exists to make choice on what is and is not, when the facts speak so loudly!? When will each be accountable for themselves and say (and do), "yes, I truly can".

The "freemen" perspective seems to ignore David Koresh and just how dangerous he was to these people who chose to follow him.

The evidence appears to show differently.

So, we're supposed to believe the perspective of people who were there?

Freedom means that people can do and think things for themselves.

Nothing more can be said.

king anthony

29th March 2011, 14:14

...why have they not done the same to the beautiful Amish people if this is the case???? Dont they fit the criteria that you are describing?

I dunno, just putting it out there (maybe they pay their taxes)

Has there not been a collectiveness, to which gives strength, to make the voice of one or a few strong - has not this been what lacks elsewhere!? Was this the case with those who stand 'alone' in the above said!? I say, they do give that which 'belongs to Cesar', as told in their faith - for their faith is that, which belongs to those who created it.

9eagle9

29th March 2011, 14:43

Should people be allowed to lead cults and build huge compounds?

The American government has, in the District of Columbia with temples scattered throughout every state. Bohemia Grove? Most of the world's governments are arranged around an ideal or principal that is slavishly adhered to or at least obeyed by the body of the citizenry. That would include you, No?

People are not allowed to build compounds that would threaten the pre existing cult rule. I'm sure the Cult of the American Patriot that had the Homeland Security Act as a Bible and worshiped at a Fema WorkCamp wouldn't be questioned much by the Feds.

Perhaps we are not clear as to what a cult is?

When we do that, any number of people gathered can be labeled a cult and imposed on. Like say ...a family reunion. Or a church picnic.

Why doesn't the government use force against the church that sends delegates out to the funerals of certain soldiers to create a hate parade when the soldiers in question were known to be in servitude to the government itself. Why are the behaviors of that church and its members less threatening than Koresh and his members? Or Ruby Ridge who did virtually nothing but REFUSE to participate in the larger body of the pre existing cult. Turf war?

Why not demand the government be concerned about lives of people who are struggling in the mainstream rather than a handful scattered here and there? Because the governments are arranged around cult principals themselves and are threatened by opposing cult principals.....like governments in the middle east that have arranged their domestic policy around extreme Islam principals.

How did Karesh threaten anyone outside his compound? Blindfolded and with one arm tied behind my back I'd suggest it was the IDEA of what Karesh was doing, rather than what Karesh was actually doing. What threat was he to life and liberty in the US when we know that it doesn't really exist here anyway? No life or liberty was threatened UNTIL the opposing cult intervened.

LIke the rest of the sheep, there is no need to force entry in to a cult. The bait is dangled, and sheep climb on the hook themselves.

The government is OBVIOUSLY not concerned about the LIVES of others when it firebombs and opens fire on them. I mean that is OBVIOUS. It's as obviously twisted as I saying that I will kill you in order to improve your quality of life.

king anthony

29th March 2011, 14:53

This post inspired by the said quote.

But, not every response has to be like Waco or Ruby Ridge. It all comes down to understanding the limits that both sides have.

In case there are any doubts that violence towards people is not happening right now, everyday - I submit the following evidence samples, taken from 'millions' available. The objective is to make a point; that being, how conditioned the masses are, to allow 'the few' (insane ruling class) to 'do what they wilt'.

This is why the above events took place.

'The few' have resources, such as military and police; these are the 'resources' people meet face-to-face - daily; not mentioning the invisible resources such as currency, media and education, which too are faced daily. Policy brutality is real and growing, from the subtle to the very serious events.

I have witnessed much from three perspectives; as a third party observer, from 'behind the scenes', and from firsthand personal 'dealings' - in the real world. I know I am not alone.

I offer this post, in hopes of truly waking people up to this reality. By posting the said examples, I wish to show the conduct of those loyal to the ruling class, while hiding behind such defenses as, "I was doing my job" - they gave up their humanity when they took side, thus should blame their job for their place within humanity.

This is not to promote fear or negativity, but rather to say - "do not turn one's eyes from what is really going on, for turning from truth will not aid you, the ones you love or anyone else".

There are plenty of other threads/posts in this forum promoting the opposite for 'comfort'; this post is to show the 'dark' reality of what is - and the beginning of what more is to come; if people do not truly wakeup. From another thread addressing that which 'comforts':

We buy a car and poke and prod at all the tires, transmission, the engine and generally use more caring buying a vehicle than we do in selecting a belief system.

I say, is not the difference being reality and not - which determines importance!? Is there not more importance imposed with greater 'due diligence', with things of need rather then things of luxury - if so, then it is clear which is.

There are many people around the world, such as Ruby Ridge, people being 'beaten down by the long arm of the law' and in war torn lands - who live daily not only without basic needs being met - but without the luxury of not being able to debate such things as being an incarnation of a 'butterfly' or Genghis Khan - for none of these things aid them when reality is imposed.

I anticipate many/some opposing this post, as it will not satisfy their personal needs or beliefs - perhaps even challenge. To those I say, 'better to know one's limits, then to reach past it'.

I also anticipate many/some saying, "what did the victim do" or "I'm sure the police had a reason" or even say 'these are but extreme examples which do not occur often'; to these people I say, "Will you say the same when it is your turn"?

I wish for people to benefit from this post, in some way.

WARNING VIDEO IMAGES MAY BE DISTURBING TO SOME VIEWERS DUE TO VIOLENCE - VIEWER DISCRETION ADVISED.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxgNKNEtk18

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bg84g8NnnE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khBMoZdwEmc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KluItc365hU

Who is really to blame for this!? Do those 'things' that give 'comfort', aid during such events!? How do these things that give 'comfort' contribute!? Will it become any better!? Will it take these types of events to truly wake people up!? Will it have to be once these things happen to each - will it not be too late!?

ARE YOU TRULY AWAKE YET!?

Lord Sidious

29th March 2011, 15:18

After watching some of those vids, let me comment.
I have told police before who were playing up, if you are going to act like pigs, that is what I will call you.
Act like men, I will call you that.
Respect is a two way street, you disrespect me and/or my rights, I care not what ''rank'' or ''authority'' you have.

9eagle9

29th March 2011, 15:36

America is selective in upholding its freedom of religion principals. The Amish are 'properly' Christian and while keeping to themselves, are also clearly visible and not hiding anything. They are well known pacifists.

In 05 some 'church people' broke into my home to save me. A forced entry saving in the name of Jesus. I was less fashed that they had broken into my home under the umbrella of Jesus, than they had invaded my privacy at all. Meaning I didn't really care why they had broke in, it was the fact they had the temerity to break in at all. The local authorities wouldn't even entertain the notion of charging my saviors for breaking and entering , saying that 'they meant well."

Using that same principal I challenged the authorities: How well would I be received when I broke into their homes to teach them ritual magick and spell casting? Of course I'd be doing it because I meant well.

That was an entirely different matter.

Should people be allowed to lead cults and build huge compounds? Is government not right to be concerned about the lives of the people in those compounds?

I am not saying who is right or wrong, from what little I know Koresh reminded me of Jim Jones (of Jonestown and the mass suicide) and even perhaps Charles Manson

Just to put a spanner in the works..........why have they not done the same to the beautiful Amish people if this is the case???? Dont they fit the criteria that you are describing?

I dunno, just putting it out there (maybe they pay their taxes)[/QUOTE]

mondaze

29th March 2011, 16:52

pretty sure both Jones and Manson were mk ultra stooges

king anthony

29th March 2011, 18:43

pretty sure both Jones and Manson were mk ultra stooges

Jim Jones

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/8718/cmcultsjoneshova9.jpg

A religious cult had relocated in the Northwestern part of Guyana and had developed the Peoples Temple Agricultural Project, which became better know as ‘Jonestown’. Jonestown became an international topic when almost a thousand people had taken their lives by mixing cyanide with a children’s drink.

The mass suicide was lead by Jim Jones who had died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head. Much controversy followed as evidence began surfacing (to present day) which linked the CIA and much political involvement, challenging the above said events.

Charles Manson

http://ph.cdn.photos.upi.com/slideshow/lbox/15004e88a6e7052e91f4493058cb3e05/Charles-Manson.jpg

The Charles Manson murders take place and despite what mainstream media and the public know, there is controversy surrounding the subject. Prior to the murders, Manson was at the Terminal Island prison, which had a reputation of holding people associated with the Central Intelligence Agency of the United States.

Other members of Manson’s group were also at the same prison prior to the murders. One of the members of Manson’s group was plotting to assassinate Gerald Ford prior to the United States presidential election. If she was successful, then Nelson Rockefeller would have been president of the United States and not vice-president. The Manson murders were surrounded by many levels of deception, including the use of LSD, MK ULTRA brainwashing tactics and were linked to Bobby Kennedy’s assassination.

aikisaw

29th March 2011, 19:12

It was my understanding that Waco was about the Nafta Super Highway.The government did not want an armed group to be entrenched where the Highway was going to be. The compound was located where an access ramp or warehousing facility was supposed to be located. The government left them with no choices.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/Pictures/Jun06/140606nasco_home_page_09.jpg

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/june2006/140606Highway.htm

Bush Administration Quietly Plans NAFTA Super Highway

Jerome R. Corsi / Human Events | June 14 2006

Quietly but systematically, the Bush Administration is advancing the plan to build a huge NAFTA Super Highway, four football-fields-wide, through the heart of the U.S. along Interstate 35, from the Mexican border at Laredo, Tex., to the Canadian border north of Duluth, Minn.

Once complete, the new road will allow containers from the Far East to enter the United States through the Mexican port of Lazaro Cardenas, bypassing the Longshoreman’s Union in the process. The Mexican trucks, without the involvement of the Teamsters Union, will drive on what will be the nation’s most modern highway straight into the heart of America. The Mexican trucks will cross border in FAST lanes, checked only electronically by the new “SENTRI” system. The first customs stop will be a Mexican customs office in Kansas City, their new Smart Port complex, a facility being built for Mexico at a cost of $3 million to the U.S. taxpayers in Kansas City.

As incredible as this plan may seem to some readers, the first Trans-Texas Corridor segment of the NAFTA Super Highway is ready to begin construction next year. Various U.S. government agencies, dozens of state agencies, and scores of private NGOs (non-governmental organizations) have been working behind the scenes to create the NAFTA Super Highway, despite the lack of comment on the plan by President Bush. The American public is largely asleep to this key piece of the coming “North American Union” that government planners in the new trilateral region of United States, Canada and Mexico are about to drive into reality.

Just examine the following websites to get a feel for the magnitude of NAFTA Super Highway planning that has been going on without any new congressional legislation directly authorizing the construction of the planned international corridor through the center of the country.

NASCO, the North America SuperCorridor Coalition Inc., is a “non-profit organization dedicated to developing the world’s first international, integrated and secure, multi-modal transportation system along the International Mid-Continent Trade and Transportation Corridor to improve both the trade competitiveness and quality of life in North America.” Where does that sentence say anything about the USA? Still, NASCO has received $2.5 million in earmarks from the U.S. Department of Transportation to plan the NAFTA Super Highway as a 10-lane limited-access road (five lanes in each direction) plus passenger and freight rail lines running alongside pipelines laid for oil and natural gas. One glance at the map of the NAFTA Super Highway on the front page of the NASCO website will make clear that the design is to connect Mexico, Canada, and the U.S. into one transportation system.

Kansas City SmartPort Inc. is an “investor based organization supported by the public and private sector” to create the key hub on the NAFTA Super Highway. At the Kansas City SmartPort, the containers from the Far East can be transferred to trucks going east and west, dramatically reducing the ground transportation time dropping the containers off in Los Angeles or Long Beach involves for most of the country. A brochure on the SmartPort website describes the plan in glowing terms: “For those who live in Kansas City, the idea of receiving containers nonstop from the Far East by way of Mexico may sound unlikely, but later this month that seemingly far-fetched notion will become a reality.”

The U.S. government has housed within the Department of Commerce (DOC) an “SPP office” that is dedicated to organizing the many working groups laboring within the executive branches of the U.S., Mexico and Canada to create the regulatory reality for the Security and Prosperity Partnership. The SPP agreement was signed by Bush, President Vicente Fox, and then-Prime Minister Paul Martin in Waco, Tex., on March 23, 2005. According to the DOC website, a U.S.-Mexico Joint Working Committee on Transportation Planning has finalized a plan such that “(m)ethods for detecting bottlenecks on the U.S.-Mexico border will be developed and low cost/high impact projects identified in bottleneck studies will be constructed or implemented.” The report notes that new SENTRI travel lanes on the Mexican border will be constructed this year. The border at Laredo should be reduced to an electronic speed bump for the Mexican trucks containing goods from the Far East to enter the U.S. on their way to the Kansas City SmartPort.

The Texas Department of Transportation (TxDOT) is overseeing the Trans-Texas Corridor (TTC) as the first leg of the NAFTA Super Highway. A 4,000-page environmental impact statement has already been completed and public hearings are scheduled for five weeks, beginning next month, in July 2006. The billions involved will be provided by a foreign company, Cintra Concessions de Infraestructuras de Transporte, S.A. of Spain. As a consequence, the TTC will be privately operated, leased to the Cintra consortium to be operated as a toll-road.
The details of the NAFTA Super Highway are hidden in plan view. Still, Bush has not given speeches to bring the NAFTA Super Highway plans to the full attention of the American public. Missing in the move toward creating a North American Union is the robust public debate that preceded the decision to form the European Union. All this may be for calculated political reasons on the part of the Bush Administration.

A good reason Bush does not want to secure the border with Mexico may be that the administration is trying to create express lanes for Mexican trucks to bring containers with cheap Far East goods into the heart of the U.S., all without the involvement of any U.S. union workers on the docks or in the trucks.

Highway Through 'Hallowed' Ground
Texas Highway Project Threatens a Cluster of Branch Davidians in Waco

http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/story?id=3186108&page=1

king anthony

29th March 2011, 19:18

People are not allowed to build compounds that would threaten the pre existing cult rule. I'm sure the Cult of the American Patriot that had the Homeland Security Act as a Bible and worshiped at a Fema WorkCamp wouldn't be questioned much by the Feds.

Perhaps we are not clear as to what a cult is?

If I may add to the above said.

As for what cults are, there are others who have defined and exposed such; for example,

Project Camelot interviews Jordan Maxwell

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jJKue2Ff6o

Concentration Camps of North America and the World (meaning your country - where you live) - this is a hoax! Why is the said easier for many to believe - do you still think this it is a hoax?

If a hoax, then why are the below types of videos being taken down by the "enemies of the people" and reposted by the "enemies of the state"!? Why are people who expose this information and share it with others, ridiculed by other 'citizens' and put on a watch list of "big brother"!?

Why is it scary to want to know the truth - do both sides have something to fear!?

Is the ruling class relying on the myth of overpopulation!? The population of the entire earth can fit into the state of Texas, with the population density of England. The earth can easily handle ten-times what is current; the problem (for 'them') is something more. Are natural resources depleting!? The biosphere, known as earth, is designed, in its complexity, to 'repair' itself and continue production of all things.

The fresh water supply is being controlled - through deliberately polluted water supplies and 'bottled' water. Basic grains are being controlled - through genetic modification. Now the air is being controlled - carbon emission taxs, free to breathe in, but it will cost you to breathe out.

All these thing contribute to where you may end up - in some camp wondering where your loved ones are.

FEMA Camp Footage (Concentrations Camps in USA) - This is World Wide!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0P-hvPJPTi4

Fema Camp Coffins Investigated

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3zSDdm-SHI

Is there anything more important then the survival of each and all?

Sierra

30th March 2011, 02:11

FEMA Camp Footage (Concentrations Camps in USA) - This is World Wide!!!

Those are very large gassing er... gas pipes installed in the FEMA camp. Might as well call them what they are, depopulation centers.

I'm blue.

king anthony

30th March 2011, 02:21

I'm blue.

Only if you breathe what comes out of those pipes.

Sierra

30th March 2011, 02:37

Snort!

lol!

<giggle>

LMAO!

Thanks, I needed that :)

king anthony

1st April 2011, 20:39

The government is OBVIOUSLY not concerned about the LIVES of others when it firebombs and opens fire on them. I mean that is OBVIOUS. It's as obviously twisted as I saying that I will kill you in order to improve your quality of life.

Somewhat like in this video (and many others) - from all around the world?

Warning - graphic extreme violence - viewer discretion advised.

Graphic amateur video: Protesters injured in Bahrain as troops open fire

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nI02Z8B1dw&skipcontrinter=1

aikisaw

2nd April 2011, 01:14

William Cooper's Creed

I believe first in God, the same God in which my ancestors believed. I believe in Jesus Christ and that he is my savior. Second , I believe in the Constitution of the Republic of United States of America without interpretation, as it was written and meant to work. I have given my sacred oath "to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States of America against all enemies foreign and domestic." I intend to fulfill that oath.Third, I believe I believe in the family unit and, in particular my family unit. I have sworn that I will give my life, if it is required, in defense of God, the constitution, or my family. Fourth, I believe that any man without principles that he is ready and willing to die for at any given moment is already dead and is of no use or consequence whatsoever.

William Cooper
August 3,1990
Camp Verde, Arizona
From the book Behold a Pale Horse

I do not think that William Cooper belonged to a cult. It has been while since I researched it, but I do not think that Randy Weaver belonged to a cult. David Koresh and the Branch Dividians maybe a cult. Maybe they just wanted to be left alone.

It comes down to what you believe. How important those beliefs are to you. What you are willing to do for those beliefs.

The video's in this thread show great abuses of power by those who were sworn to protect us. Who has stood up for the abused?

The legal system? I do not recall any charges brought to conviction on any of these abusers.

The political system ....some solemn inquiries to show they cared so that "it would never happen again."

The press....most painted them as religious nuts and militia members.

The church.....not that I am aware of and these were all very religious men.

That is the concern, when you stand up for you and yours that you will be standing alone.

king anthony

15th April 2011, 19:06

The above said material(s) shows the “upfront”, obvious and direct methods that have been imposed – what of the ways that are “unseen”!?

toothpick

15th April 2011, 22:00

Just watched above videos of Police brutality.
These Police are seriously out of control.
They have some "Power" issues.
Get some counseling man!

toothpick

Lord Sidious

15th April 2011, 22:37

Just watched above videos of Police brutality.
These Police are seriously out of control.
They have some "Power" issues.
Get some counseling man!

toothpick

I have their counselling here.

http://www.granitegrok.com/pix/DirtyHarry_1.jpg
Are you feeling lucky today punk? Well, are you?

aikisaw

16th April 2011, 03:23

The above said material(s) shows the “upfront”, obvious and direct methods that have been imposed – what of the ways that are “unseen”!?

Yes, this a good thing to check into. I would guess that some of the" public embarrassments" that have occurred were unseen removals from office. Gary Hart (presidential candidate),Eliot Spitzer (New York Governor) Rod Blagojevich (Chicago Mayor) Bernie Madoff and for sure Bernie Madoff's son.

I think this less confrontational approach may be more effective than storming your house. You have the option to fight back when they show up in the physical. When they leak your financial records, or computer records to the press, foreclose on your home, or threaten your son or daughter as the TSA just did, what options are left.

It would have been difficult (not impossible) to have SWAT raid the homes of the people above. Easier to have an anonymous source, a big police investigation, and months of news cycles, so you understand how bad these guys really are. ( Not like your government .....who is just here to help protect you from these dangerous and bad men) Sarcasm meter just exploded.

When you look into the computer resources that are available now at NSA, CIA, and the rest of the alphabet soup agencies, it is apparent that there are no secrets at the highest levels. Which means they knew about Madoff and the others for years. The information that they posses can be used to move along an agenda with no physical force. You simply marginalize your opponent. They attack their credibility with "facts" that they manipulate to tell the story they want.

I am not a big fan of Spitzer, Madoff, and Hart, they have their faults. I do wonder why they were taken down. Is it true that Spitzer was investigating Wall Street? Was it that he could not be bought .....or did he want to much? In hind site he was correct about Wall Street needing an investigation. Madoff's son, before he committed suicide said that, " no one would believe what had happened". It would be nice to find out what really did happen.

king anthony

28th April 2011, 00:38

I think this less confrontational approach may be more effective than storming your house. You have the option to fight back when they show up in the physical. When they leak your financial records, or computer records to the press, foreclose on your home, or threaten your son or daughter as the TSA just did, what options are left.

Allow me to expand in a direction many cannot accept - that being, "things" which affect the mind (thought) directly in a indirect way.

PART 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3y8uwtxrHo&feature=related

PART 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hW0_UMtsb4&NR=1)

PART 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NFOnQQMnx4&feature=related)

Fluoride: Another Lie

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eShPw82sCcY&feature=related

Dr. Vyvyan Howard on Fluoride in Drinking Water

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqMmoQgnXnA&feature=related

Fluoride is but one example of one "substance" imposed on the masses. Shall the discussion lead into the alleged "war on drugs (http://theconspiracyzone.blogspot.com/2006/03/why-war-on-drugs-is-failing.html)" and the truth behind this? Or how about the substances the masses are willing to take simply because "they" say it is "okay"?

For those who are not familiar with Jane Burgermeister:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PelTWCUmTsU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gz_wWS1GMls&feature=related

Even with the above said and presented materials, the most shocking/appalling of all things - how "they" keep from the masses "cures" to those thing "they" create; be sure to read the cover of the "material" Dr. Boyd Graves holds up during his presentation.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8567399552051355527#

If they do not shoot you, destroy your (personal and/or professional) "integrity", or other - they will do things silently. One reason why they "can" do these things - they own "you", because "you" are a debt slave.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=5968&d=1300148768

How can one be free in mind and/or spirit - when the flesh is not free? How can one free the mind and/or spirit when they do not know how to free the flesh? How can one free that which is not owned ("themselves")!? Can a child learn how to run before they learn how to crawl?

Unified Serenity

28th April 2011, 03:12

Sierra

28th April 2011, 18:54

http://www.prisonplanet.com/Pictures/Jun06/140606nasco_home_page_09.jpg

Aikisaw, I just thought of something ... this map shows in blue the portions of the east and west coast that are supposed to disappear (in some timelines, in some scenarios) when the shift plays out. This leaves the NAFTA super highway smack center of the continent remnant, a useful tool to divide, monitor and control.

I've heard rumors that a huge presence of foreign military is being built up in Nicaragua to invade the US as part of a multi-pronged attack strategy. Such a useful route to invade the heartland don't you think?

Some of my sister's family live in Texas, and they say that people are having to drive fifteen miles out of the way now to get where they are going because the highway now blocks, repeat, blocks their former route.

Not sure how that works ya know <peering down the wabbit hole>

Wondering if lots of FEMA concentration camps are located off the highway ... or military depots ... or barracks ... or wabbit holes to the underground installation supply depots ... or amphitheaters for games of blood to amuse the ok Sierra lets not get carried away here...

Then there is the Denver International Airport, completely Illuminati owned underground infrastructure with huge tunnels built to move and control large population groups... and I recently heard the Atlanta Airport was built on the same design. One on each side of the NAFTA highway. How symmetrical of them.

Its all very ick.

king anthony

29th April 2011, 14:14

If they do not shoot you, destroy your (personal and/or professional) "integrity", or other - they will do things silently.

To continue with the theme of "silently": "they" may not do harm to you (in)directly (including your loved ones) using the examples shared; however "they" also have the option(s) of doing harm by cutting off your resources for surviving in this modern civilization.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1481394326816578145#

Aikisaw, I just thought of something ... this map shows in blue the portions of the east and west coast that are supposed to disappear (in some timelines, in some scenarios) when the shift plays out. This leaves the NAFTA super highway smack center of the continent remnant, a useful tool to divide, monitor and control.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=7124&thumb=1&d=1304086211

king anthony

30th April 2011, 12:35

Briefly adding to the first half of post #41:

It could be one person "they" financially compromise or a nation; for those who are not familiar with John Perkins, the author of "Confessions of an Economic Hit Man".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oARBdBtGenM

king anthony

4th May 2011, 15:03

If I may share a post of mine from another thread; it (partially) sums up the topic of this thread - and subtopics.

The reason for how and why things are is based not on a part or one specific, but on the whole; everything ties together.

For many, this fact is overwhelming in itself; and there are many more elements not mentioned - yet.

Canadians & the Fluoride Issue (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?19563-Canadians-the-Fluoride-Issue&p=208640#post208640)

I say, the deceptions have been going on for "many" thousands of years and encompasses many multiple layers. In order to survive "the day" and "tomorrow" seek the truths of the distant past.

math330

4th May 2011, 20:23

Thanks for all of this Anthony :)
Began to read the thread at work, had to come back for round two... fascinating.

Waco always seemed to me, as someone else has mentioned on here, like a show of force by BATF.
Thanks again

jupiter

5th May 2011, 01:32

what happened to the so & so that shot the child in the back and the mum in the head ,was there any punishment or just a rap over the knuckles,
murder in the line of duty is a great scapegoat
kind regards James

king anthony

5th May 2011, 01:56

what happened to the so & so that shot the child in the back and the mum in the head...
murder in the line of duty is a great scapegoat

What if someone replied, that after the "event" - he went home to his family, went out to Burger King, then a movie... he was suspended for a few days with pay... then later that year took his family to Disney World for a week and got promoted when he came back??

I say, I do have a point with the question and not directed (only) to the poster of the quote.

jupiter

5th May 2011, 16:26

well I would say that I would be disturbed even further than I already am
Kind regards James

Darla Ken Pearce

5th May 2011, 20:50

King Anthony, I applaud your efforts to enlighten us here. For many years I did the research and came to some of the same conclusions that you have here. At one time long after Ruby Ridge, my youngest daughter and I drove up there to see the scene of the crime. My vehicle got stuck in the mud, so we left it on the road and walked all the way. We were able to see the FBI staging area for their camps and murder grounds. There were big boulders place to block the road, so had we not been stuck in the mud, we would have had to walk anyway. Like other battlefields this one upon reaching the house, is sacred for the innocent lives that were taken there.

Most of the outside of the house had been removed, taken away, to assure it would not become some kind of shrine in future days when all the facts are known. Vicky's well-worn bible sat on what was left of a counter. So sad and "Yawhew" (I've forgotten the spelling) was written in black marker above the front door writ large where she was shot in the head holding her small baby. Lon, the marksman, how I pity him. The boulder where they placed wiretaps and the camera on the house was visible up in the treeline above. We took some small rocks as a token of Ruby Ridge. Where it was of most importance is that the government was out of control and nothing stopped them. Having no brakes, they continued by the killings and disaster of Waco. Still they weren't stopped and so we got Oklahoma City, all blamed on others who had nothing to do with the real outrages at all. I can tell some here are not ready for these truths so I will move right along. And after Oklahoma City still getting away with these outrages against we, the people, we got 911 by the same, same, same old powers and still is going and is allowed to flourish these lies right up to the killing of Osama Bin Laden.

No the people violated, it's too late to have them know these things. Those who choose to continue allowing such outrages to continue will go now to another place to continue these 3D dramas. It's a choice we make every day when we allow, open up, to tyranny without even a prayer or some sort of recognition that no, it's not okay to do these things to others under any guise whatsoever. To cause harm is not okay. And so it is we go forward and create something new and bright or we can be bogged down and support the killing, the maiming, the slaughter of innocents and if that is okay, they can take it to another planet starting now.
Thanks for your efforts, you kings and Lords on behalf of all of us who do protest, who do protest, who do protest, who can create something new and clean and bright and we can also ask for these dark actions be ended now. Ask and it is given. xoxoxox

king anthony

6th May 2011, 22:47

Thanks for your efforts, you kings and Lords on behalf of all of us who do protest, who do protest, who do protest, who can create something new and clean and bright and we can also ask for these dark actions be ended now.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=7212&d=1304722342

I say, the time for protest has passed...

king anthony

7th May 2011, 00:04

The silent form of control - we know "they" own the education system, for example Norman Dodd (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?15042-Norman-Dodd-(1899-1987)-On-Tax-Exempt-Foundations); we know "they" own mainstream media, for example Jesse Venture (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBIqLnXk7H8).

However, what else do "they" do with all this control? Do "they" ingrain into the minds of the masses such examples as what is acceptable and not?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjaBpVzOohs

The "masses" want and are ready for truth (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCPQW8sS7bg)... and instead "they" "kill the messengers" who try to tell others of "their" deeds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMtE6CPED2I

...and...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6063340745569143497#

"They" prevent the voice of the people to be heard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-Vy8fFnz18

...and...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDmAKnw7AJw

Control how (and what) information is being released... and not; Alex Jones (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWMh_30TN2g).

"They" make weapons to protect "themselves" and claim it is to protect the masses.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEu9LLQpOF8

However, most of all "they" lie, lie and lie - which is why the above has been so.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ez4zVwxCCtc

In the end, "they" treat the masses (you) like (stupid) children - I give you Lewis Black (talking about water) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGxuq0TDF5Y&feature=related) - I hope you get a good laugh from this video, you will need it. WARNING "BAD WORDS" IN THE VIDEO = VIEWER DISCRETION IS ADVISED.

king anthony

18th May 2011, 14:02

How far will "they" go - not only after the people, but the one's the people cherish, Our Furry Friends (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?13851-Our-Furry-Friends...).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mvIWFXbHNo

Lord Sidious

26th May 2011, 22:00

They have proved they will go all the way to get what they want or stop others from stopping them.

king anthony

27th May 2011, 01:34

They have proved they will go all the way to get what they want or stop others from stopping them.

Very true.

I say, this thread is not about "feel good", as it presents the reality, which most do not wish to face; the question is why!?

The conditioning of the masses in one form or another has proven itself - turn away as it is another's problem, do nothing for fear, rely on various "beliefs and faiths", and trust "them" to do as "they wilt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do_what_thou_wilt)".

The following video is based on Reverend Martin Niemoller's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Niem%C3%B6ller)(14 January 1892 – 6 March 1984) famous poem; although the poem is specific about whom "they" came for - the video is an adaptation for the world today.

In the video, the poem could read:

"First they came for ______________, I did nothing for I am not ______________. When they came for the ______________, I did nothing, for I am not ______________. When they came for the ______________, ______________, ______________, I did nothing, for I am none of these, and when they came for me, I was alone, there was no one to stand up for me."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AO36y78dXAs

I say, for if one and/or the many cannot witness these things, then one and/or the many have no claim to be awakened, free or "spiritual" enlightened - for these things one and/or the many must pass through (in these times) before reaching the next. Can a child walk before they learn to crawl - can a child run before they learn to walk - can a "child" become an "adult" before the "right of passage" of bodily change and proven deed!?

I say, oh foolish one's, when will it be learned to set aside human arrogance and be, with knowledge and understanding.

Cjay

27th May 2011, 06:23

King Anthony, thank you for starting this thread. We must not tolerate thuggery (or worse) from our law enforcement authorities.

After watching some of those vids, let me comment.
I have told police before who were playing up, if you are going to act like pigs, that is what I will call you.
Act like men, I will call you that.
Respect is a two way street, you disrespect me and/or my rights, I care not what ''rank'' or ''authority'' you have.

The greatest adventure of my life was a 7 month, 35,000 mile road trip through 42 states in USA and 6 provinces in Canada. My home on wheels was a Volkswagen Kombi van. One very hot and humid midsummer day, we parked in the only shady spot in a car park at a beach near Tampa, Florida. I had a high fever from a servere strep-throat infection, so I lay on the bed in the van, with the back door open for ventilation, writing a letter to send home while my travelling companion was swimming and flirting with the local girls on the beach.

I was startled by a very loud bang caused by a police officer slamming his night-stick flat on the vinyl mattress, inches from my ear. He then grabbed me by the throat with both hands and dragged me out of the van then dropped me on my bare feet on the scorching hot black asphalt. As I "danced" from one foot to the other in an unsuccessful attempt to stop my feet from blistering, he shouted, "you are under arrest for public nuisance misdemeanour number blah blah which carries a $27 fine. Your van will be towed at a cost of $127 and impounded at a cost of $27 per day until you are released from jail". I thought to myself, what is it with the number 27? Actually, the number has no special relevance to this story. I just found it amusing at the time.

My throat was so sore that for several days prior to this, I could not eat or swallow water, so I had been chewing ice to remain hydrated. The ice somewhat numbed my throat, just slightly reducing the agony of swallowing.

I tried to speak to the policeman but barely a sound came out, so I used sign language to indicate I had a sore throat and I pointed to a large McDonalds paper cup containing some ice. The silent rookie cop handed me the cup - I chewed some ice then managed to say, "what did I do wrong"? The noisy cop said, "you were sleeping in public". I said, "I was not asleep, I was writing a letter". I pointed and said, "it is there on the bed". I could tell by his facial expression that the noisy one didn't believe I wasn't sleeping. He said to his partner, "hand me that letter", then he proceded to read all of it, right up to the unfinished word I was writing when he grabbed my by the throat.

I said, "there's no need to tow the van because my friend is on the beach and he can drive it". Mr. Noisy said, "where exactly is your friend"? I pointed to the big muscly guy two hundred yards away, running towards us. The noisy one mumbled something into his two-way radio and a second police car arrived at the same time as my friend. All four police drew their guns and were screaming, "get on the ground, LAY DOWN ON THE GROUND, PUT YOUR HANDS ON YOUR HEAD". We did not lie down but we did put our hands on our heads and my friend said, "what is the problem"? The noisy cop explained I was being arrested for sleeping in public. My friend said, "can't you see he is sick? If you look there (pointing with his eyes) you will find his prescription medicine, dated yesterday". The noisy cop checked the date on the bottle of anti-biotics and after seeing our Australian passports, he signalled to the other three cops to holster their weapons.

My friend asked, "what is this really about"? The cop explained they had received a tip-off that scruffy looking guys were dealing drugs in this same car park, from a white van with California licence plates. About six hours later, after dark, in the same car park, we watched the cops arrest the drug dealers who were only slightly less scruffy than us and who also had a white van with California plates. We approached on foot for a closer look. Recognising us, the rookie cop came over and apologised for their mistake and for his partner's highly strung behaviour.

If it is not already obvious, the reason I shared this story is because it is yet another example of an extreme over-reaction to have four guns aimed at two almost naked, unarmed people. It could easily have ended with two dead Aussie tourists.

Despite what happened that day, I have the utmost respect for the majority of police I have encountered. I appreciate that most police have difficult and dangerous jobs but it does not excuse their presumption of guilt or their totally disproportionate, aggressive response to a perceived threat. I wonder how many innocent people have been injured or killed in similar situations and never had a chance to tell their stories.

king anthony

27th May 2011, 12:57

Despite what happened that day, I have the utmost respect for the majority of police I have encountered. I appreciate that most police have difficult and dangerous jobs but it does not excuse their presumption of guilt or their totally disproportionate, aggressive response to a perceived threat. I wonder how many innocent people have been injured or killed in similar situations and never had a chance to tell their stories.

Thank you for your post, if I may add in brief;

I say, the ruling class take away people's ability to resolve their own issues, claim to offer aid and cannot even pretend to be able to do what is promised - because it is all based on lies.

Police are not needed, as they are simply tools for "the few" and serve only "the few"; communal policing is far more effective.

Communal policing is no longer, not because it did not work - rather because it does not allow the opportunity to control the masses - as the police state does.

Double standards and manipulation is common to make them what they are; for example, they claim to learn and apply nonviolent restraining methods involving wristlocks - yet, the same done by a commoner (civilian) is deemed as a violent act and assault. The point being, they are right even when they are wrong.

Those who become police give up their humanity - for these people cannot serve two masters; one being to "aid" and the other to "harm". Another form of a double standard is imposed here as well; for example, propaganda (promoted by the courts) make police "trained professionals" with higher standings then commoners - yet, when it is needed to win sympathy from the masses, the police are then presented as human beings with families.

I say, if human beings/people wish to be free, sovereign and to live in peace - then people need to let go of the programming/conditioning/brainwashing of this artificial civilization and obtain and reclaim that which has never been and taken from the masses - "the opportunity..."

I say, I may be the enemy of the state - but the police are the enemies of human beings.

Cjay

27th May 2011, 16:02

It comes down to what you believe. How important those beliefs are to you. What you are willing to do for those beliefs.

What we believe STILL, for most people, comes down to what "they" want us to believe.

I have been trying, for 10 years, to occasionally inject snippets of truth, into my father's awareness. I say occasionally because he gets pretty upset sometimes when I challenge his beliefs. He has, on very few occasions, become more awake and aware. I tried again today but the conversation didn't last long. What happened was something like this... I showed him evidence of how corrupt and sometimes evil governments are, how the government is not really the ultimate authority in any country. You know, a typical wake up and smell the bullsh*t conversation. I attempted to explain how "they" control the media, they control our education systems, they tell us only what they want us to know and they program us to think what they want us to think. I said, "you will not find much truth in the mainstream media". Dad replied, "you spend far too much time on the internet and you're in danger of becoming very twisted". I asked, "do you think I am already twisted"? He said, "not yet but you are in danger of becoming twisted". Then he said, "despite the evidence to the contrary, I would rather continue believing they are good".

And that, unfortunately, seems to be how a lot of people react to these things. Lifelong systematic brainwashing is extremely difficult to undo.

Lord Sidious

27th May 2011, 16:14

Cjay, it might work beter that instead of telling him what you think, ask him questions about what he thinks.
Ask him leading questions, ones that come to the conclusion that you already have.

Cjay

27th May 2011, 16:36

I just remembered when I began to wake up and ask "too many" embarrassing/unanswerable questions that got me in a lot of trouble over the next five years.

It was 1973. Pink Floyd, "Us And Them" from the album The Dark Side Of The Moon
(Lyrics below video)

For those unaware, that album remained in the charts for 741 weeks from 1973 to 1988, longer than any other album in history.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlY-JlE5ZCo

Us and them
And after all we're only ordinary men
Me and you
God only knows it's not what we would choose to do
Forward he cried from the rear
And the front rank died
And the general sat
And the lines on the map
Moved from side to side

Black and blue
And who knows which is which and who is who
Up and down
But in the end it's only round and round
Haven't you heard it's a battle of words
The poster bearer cried
Listen son, said the man with the gun
There's room for you inside

I mean, they're not gunna kill ya,
So if you give em a quick, short, sharp, shock
They wont do it again. dig it?
I mean he got off lightly
'cos I would've given him a thrashing - I only hit him once!
It was only a difference of opinion,
But really, I mean, good manners don't cost nothing do they, eh?

Down and out
It can't be helped but there's a lot of it about
With, without
And who'll deny it's what the fighting's all about?
Out of the way, it's a busy day
I've got things on my mind
For the want of the price of tea and a slice
The old man died.

Cjay

27th May 2011, 16:40

Lord Sidious

27th May 2011, 17:15

Cjay, it might work beter that instead of telling him what you think, ask him questions about what he thinks.
Ask him leading questions, ones that come to the conclusion that you already have.

Thanks Sid, I will do that... but he's 84, his wife of 53 years is dying of Alzheimer's disease. Perhaps I should just let him believe what he wants to believe.

In that context, I would leave him be.
He has eternity looking at him through the gateway to the next life.
He also is on the verge of his beloved taking the journey before him.
The ''reality'' of this world is probably not important if she is leaving followed by him later.
Let him have some peace, mend the fences, sit on the porch, drink some iced tea.
Comfort your kin.

king anthony

27th May 2011, 20:23

king anthony

27th May 2011, 20:26

In that context, I would leave him be.

...agreed...

Hybrid5226

19th June 2011, 04:45

The "freemen" perspective seems to ignore David Koresh and just how dangerous he was to these people who chose to follow him.

The evidence appears to show differently.

Note, how it is always the 'crazy lone gunman', the 'conspiracy theorists', some 'nut job who belonged to a forum' (reflecting the last news event) or some imaginary 'evil group' with no objective other then to cause terror'.

However, it is not so much about the person(s) but rather what it represents.

So, we're supposed to believe the perspective of people who were there?

I just don't buy the idea that Koresh was not a dangerous man.

Should people be allowed to lead cults and build huge compounds? Is government not right to be concerned about the lives of the people in those compounds?

Sure, their response at Waco was unjustified and killed more innocent people than it saved.

But, not every response has to be like Waco or Ruby Ridge. It all comes down to understanding the limits that both sides have.

I felt I needed to try an follow up with some more research to add to my opinion since it was only my opinion earlier in this thread on what I had heard happened at Waco when I lived there an talked to some of the locals .

The article I post below from my research seemed the most accurate but any opinion slants in the article are by the author Arthur Goldwag ( I did not do any research on him) an quotes he took from Time Magazine.
Branch Dividians

The Branch Davidians are an outgrowth of the Shepherd's Rod, a breakaway sect ot the Seventh-Day Adventists
founded by the Bulgarian-born Victor Houteff(1885-1955) in 1929. In 1993 their leader, David Koresh (1959-1993)
and more than seventy of his followers died during a confrontation with the United States government .

Houteff had been "disfellowshipped" by the SDA church because of his heterodox ideas, especially his interpretation
of Revelation 14:1"And I looked, and,lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him a hundred forty and four thousand,
having his Father's name written in their fore-heads."Houteff contended that those 144,000 were purified Seventh-Day
Adventists, who were destined to inhabit the restored Kingdom of David in Jerusalem. In 1935, Houteff and eleven
followers moved to a complex outside of Waco, Texas,which they called Mount Carme, to prepare for the coming End
Times.
Seven years later the Mount Carmelites,now sixty strong, were living self-sufficiently and printing and mailing tracts
around the world. When America entered World War 2, the mainstream Seventh-Day Adventist movement's continuing
refusal to recognize the Shepherd's Rod threatened to deprive its members of their conscientious objector status:
accordingly Houteff and his followers formally reconstituted themselves as an independent church. In 1955, when
Houteff died,the Davidian Seventh-Day Adventists, as they now called themselves,claimed to have a worldwide membership
of ten thousand. Soon after Houteff's widow,Florence, assumed the reins of the movement,she received a revelation that
Judgment Day would occur on April 22,1959. Her announcement set the stage for a recapitulation of the Millerite
disappointment of 1843,from which the Seventh-Day Adventist movement had originally sprung.
A tent city sprang up as nine hundred members converged on Waco to await the end, which of course did not occur.
The humiliated Houteff formally dissolved her church a few years later, leaving the way free for an apostate Davidian
named Benjamin Roden to purchase seventy-seven acres of its abandoned complex and begin a revived movement of
his own that he called the Branch Dravidian's," a reference to his saying "Get off the dead rod and onto the living branch,"
which referred both to Houteff's Shepherd's Rod and Numbers 17:8 "Behold, the rod of Aaron for the house of Levi had
sprouted and put forth buds."( The saying alludes to other biblical passages as well: the Messianic figure called the
Branch in Zechariah 3:8,"Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they are men
which are a sign: for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the Branch"; and Isaiah 11:1, "A shoot will come up from the
stump of Jesse, from his roots a Branch will bear fruit."
When Roden died in 1978, his wife, Lois, assumed the leadership of the Branch Dravidian's, Like Houteff's wife before
her, she was given to prophesying. Lois's chief disciple and chosen successor was Vernon Wayne Howell, a twenty-
something former rock guitarist who was rumored to be her lover. But Lois's son George, who had hoped to lead the
church himself,soon forced his rival into exile. Howell and his teenage bride traveled to Israel, where he changed his
name to David Koresh. ( Koresh is the Hebrew pronunciation of "Cyrus," the Persian emperor who released the Jews
from their exile in Babylon" he is the only non-Hebrew in the Old Testament to be given the appellation of "anointed one"
or Messiah,"in Isaiah 45:1. )
When Lois died, Koresh, who had started his own church on a complex in Palestine, Texas, after he came back from
Israel, returned to Waco to settle the issue of succession once and for all. His rival, George Roden, challenged him to
a contest to see which of them could raise the dead (a corpse was dug up from the complexes cemetery for the purpose).
Gun play ensued an Koresh was arrested for attempted murder( the trial ended with a hung jury); a few years later
Roden was committed to a mental hospital after he killed one of Koresh's followers with an ax. When authorities seized
Roden's Waco compound and put it up for sale to pay its back taxes,Koresh and his followers were able to buy it.
David Koresh, as witnessed by his name change, believed that he had a messianic role to play-he proclaimed that he
himself was the lamb of God destined to open the seventh seal spoken of in Revelation. The Davidians, who made much
of their income by selling firearms and military memorabilia (such as hand grenade hulls mounted on plaques)at gun
shows, owned a small arsenal of weapons:Koresh stirred up his followers'paranoia by prophesying that Armageddon
would begin with an attack on the complex that he had begun to call"Ranch Apocalypse." He was also widely reputed
to have granted himself spousal privileges with all the females in his church-including girls younger than fourteen years
old(Texas's legal age of consent.)" Equipped with both a creamy charm and a cold-blooded willingness to manipulate
those drawn to him ," Time magazine would write after his death, "Koresh was a type well known to students of cult
practices: the charismatic leader with a pathological edge."
On February 28, 1993, agents from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco,and Firearms launched a raid against the Davidian
Compound, ostensibly to execute a search warrant. The warrant was narrow and legalistic ( it merely permitted them
to search for evidence of tax violations on the sale of automatic weapons), but there is reason to believe that the ATF,
which had suffered considerable adverse publicity in recent months, calculated that a violent confrontation with a gun
-crazed, child-abusing doomsday cult would play well in the media (its none-too-cryptic code name for the operation was
"Showtime"). The operation unfolded like a publicist's worst nightmare. First, four ATF agents and six Davidians were
killed in an entirely avoidable firefight. Then, after a fifty-one-day siege,the FBI broke the stalemate with a tear gas
assault, ostensibly because of its humanitarian concern for the children in the compound. Seventy-plus Davidians
died,twenty-one of them children,when the compound's wooden buildings burst into flames. Though an extensive
investiga-tion led by former U.S.senator John Danforth exonerated the FBI and ATF of criminal wrongdoing,few defended
their conduct of the seige. For many ultra(and not-so-ultra) conservatives,the tragedy provided a textbook example of
American police power run amok. Soon after the events, the libertarian Texas congressman Ron Paul (a presidential
candidate in 2008 wrote:

In its dealings with the community of believers at Mount Carmel, the central government abandoned the moral
promise of a free society, and, as all tyrannies eventually do, ignored its own standards of law an ethics...A
government that governs by fear alone eventually finds itself unable to govern at all .

king anthony

24th June 2011, 13:05

I say, “the few” have their enforcers, the police who are “urban predators,” who are the terrorists of the masses – for they hunt the population for the benefit of “the few”, generating revenues and upholding corporate policy imposed as “law”; law disguised as something for the safety and wellbeing of the masses.

The true nature of “the few” and those who serve, such as police, are seen for who they are - as they thrive off of the hunt. Look into their eyes and you can see this fact – for they train in combat; while the most train in nonsense – exercising this luxury “the few” have given them.

They hunt the meek and the weak, they hunt those who are easily mislead and are peaceful – they hunt “you”. At best, they meet “your” resistance of “love and light” and peaceful protests – they bring weapons and “you” bring “gifts”. Oh yes I say, for a flower has always won over a sword (or gun).

These “urban predators”, the terrorists of humankind, hunt using nonlethal means and at times use lethal means for such minor matters, which themselves escalate to flex their self proclaimed authority, such minor matters as being parked “too long” in one spot. Obey and one loses – disobey and one loses; each having no chance.

I say, is empowerment achieved with such nonsensical thought of past lives, meditation and such – as “the few” wish most to believe such thought? Is this how “the few”, those who serve them such as police and “those others” achieve what they have?

I say, if truth is too much and one wishes no discomfort - then remain with that which gives comfort and turn away from the truth, as it has been by most. However, do not be parasitic in nature and suck dry the efforts of the few of the many when something is done for change – either by saying “look you failed” or “we are finally free”.

I now remain silent as I leave.

king anthony

14th September 2011, 00:46

Let us not forgot these three stories, who were involved and why it happened.

Bill Ryan

19th April 2023, 16:30

:flower:

https://t.me/CIG_telegram/29753

CIG_telegram/29753

Satori

19th April 2023, 16:58

:flower:

https://t.me/CIG_telegram/29753

CIG_telegram/29753

Another horrible blight on this country.

The late Congressman Sonny Bono was murdered on a ski slope in Tahoe over (at least in part) this ghastly event. He was on a Congressional committee that took evidence into what happened at Waco and just before he was murdered, he was about to become chairman of a Congressional committee. As chairman he would have had the power to issue subpoenas. Before he was murdered he publicly stated that he was going to issue subpoenas and investigate further what really happened at Waco.

An argument can be made that Sonny Bono should be, if he is not already, on the Clinton list of murder victims.