12 Year Old poses serious questions for Einstein's Theory of Relativity [Archive]

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Ahkenaten

30th March 2011, 01:16

Ahkenaten

30th March 2011, 04:32

More Jake Barnett (he is also a regular kid!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQTrt8sg0k0&feature=related

and another child genius with his own ideas about what formed the asteroid belt

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFt4tmz_Kag&feature=related

Ahkenaten

30th March 2011, 04:37

And a young musical genius

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUx4t4W4eVY&feature=related

and another

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bI_xx82oTO8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3bW9P5Z6sI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfdc5FR3zs8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JN2SQ4m7M04&feature=related

ViralSpiral

30th March 2011, 06:58

More Jake Barnett (he is also a regular kid!)

That made me chuckle. I do think he will have his own challenges along the way, as he struggles to adapt to our "normal" social behaviour.
I sent the clip to an intellectual friend, who told me his nephew had past a maths exam, 4 years he is too young for, with 94%. In the same day, however, he superglued his hand to his forehead.....

-YdIVeBo8SE

For Our World

We need to stop.
Just stop.
Stop for a moment.
Before anybody
Says or does anything
That may hurt anyone else.
We need to be silent.
Just silent.
Silent for a moment.
Before we forever lose
The blessing of songs
That grow in our hearts.
We need to notice.
Just notice.
Notice for a moment.
Before the future slips away
Into ashes and dust of humility.
Stop, be silent, and notice.
In so many ways, we are the same.
Our differences are unique treasures.
We have, we are, a mosaic of gifts
To nurture, to offer, to accept.
We need to be.
Just be.
Be for a moment.
Kind and gentle, innocent and trusting,
Like children and lambs,
Never judging or vengeful
Like the judging and vengeful.
And now, let us pray,
Differently, yet together,
Before there is no earth, no life,
No chance for peace.

September 11, 2001
© Matthew Joseph Thaddeus Stepanek 1990 -2004

the trojan

30th March 2011, 09:01

well that made my day..lovely

ROMANWKT

30th March 2011, 10:25

Thank you Ahkenaten.
That was absolutely brilliant and fantastic, they all brought tears to my eyes. I so happy when I see humanity moving on.

This confirms that I am the dumbest son of a btch that I know.
thank you again
roman

Mad Hatter

30th March 2011, 12:02

Thank you Ahkenaten.
That was absolutely brilliant and fantastic, they all brought tears to my eyes. I so happy when I see humanity moving on.

My sentiments entirely. Please keep in mind however they have the opportunity to stand on the shoulders of giants such as yourselves...

Ahkenaten

30th March 2011, 16:01

I really loved the bit about the kid supergluing his hand to his forehead!! SOOO funny! Yes, we can all be brilliant but we are all still just children at heart developmentally!

TimelessDimensions

30th March 2011, 16:30

Thank you for this thread :)

Ahkenaten

30th March 2011, 16:50

And then there is Marco of Macedonia, a computer genius

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMHjf9Z7GKE

Ahkenaten

30th March 2011, 16:56

And then there is Child Author Adora Svitak

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lowYW2HlMZc&feature=related

Ahkenaten

30th March 2011, 17:00

I have noticed that sometimes children between one and two seem to be speaking a different language completely clearly, often
"translating" English into that language - that usually that disappears by the age of three. In this instance the child is actually saying "Big B" "little a" etc. although it is not that easy to understand him. He wants to differentiate between the upper and lower case letters!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJKat9J2ZEY&feature=fvwrel

And he knows the capitals of different countries around the world

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KU4KKX3NDqs&feature=relmfu

and US State Capitols (he got Massachusetts wrong because someone told him Boston - it is Springfield!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLACTHVC7U4&feature=relmfu

Ahkenaten

30th March 2011, 17:24

And for all of those who persist in believing the old child developmental models - here are some examples of babies not only clearly understanding and responding to language, but speaking way before they are supposed to be able to do so!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CzCWy_RjGM&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4_JLvGcRuk&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWHtTDvdVdo&NR=1&feature=fvwp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWHtTDvdVdo&NR=1&feature=fvwp

Ahkenaten

30th March 2011, 17:32

children also are psychics, mediums, and sometimes they remember past lives

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMXEiT6YpTw

johnf

30th March 2011, 17:32

Ahkenaten

30th March 2011, 17:44

Children remembering past lives (Isn't the narrator Arthur C. Clarke?!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_T5vNgusEw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooRnQT4agXY&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ql_-BZS6Jow&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuwtDawOIN8&feature=related

Ahkenaten

30th March 2011, 18:16

Reincarnation?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6p7miETMuc&feature=related

Ahkenaten

30th March 2011, 18:29

Oops I need to get back on track here .... more Jacob Barnett and Child Geniuses

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2cKcIljTEo&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=te0p8bKODQA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnvDC6HiaBk&feature=related

Ahkenaten

30th March 2011, 19:08

Does someone explain how he justifies dividing by zero?

It's interesting how the visual jokes about dividing by zero look like a black hole.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_KSSgR5rY8ow/S97bdjx-CAI/AAAAAAAAAJI/ikB29BQoM4A/s1600/so-i-just-divide-by-zero-and-then-demotivational-poster-1216891861.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.noobonicplague.com/forums/viewtopic.php%3Ff%3D26%26t%3D5699&h=508&w=640&sz=88&tbnid=xOnxwz9dva222M:&tbnh=109&tbnw=137&prev=/search%3Fq%3Ddividing%2Bby%2Bzero%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=dividing+by+zero&usg=__huiY73AWdDrJa9kekHXdDlrexvY=&sa=X&ei=VWmTTcK2LIe6sQOQ9KXLBQ&ved=0CCoQ9QEwAQ

Beats the heck out of me!! I am in awe of people with mathematical abilities............

The whole zero thing, I am not a mathematician but didn't the Babylonians invent the concept of "zero".............it is an interesting idea....and interesting how higher math usually corresponds with astronomical knowledge/interests/aptitude

Jay

30th March 2011, 19:37

Am reminded of Mattie Stepanek (1990-2004) who came to the world with special words of wisdom (R.I.P. beautiful person). A baby but a peacemaker and philosopher - lost too early. Herewith an excerpt from one of his poems

Before the future slips away
Into ashes and dust of humility.
Stop, be silent, and notice.
In so many ways, we are the same.
Our differences are unique treasures.
We have, we are, a mosaic of gifts
To nurture, to offer, to accept.
We need to be.
Just be.
Be for a moment.
Kind and gentle, innocent and trusting,
Like children and lambs,
Never judging or vengeful
Like the judging and vengeful.
And now, let us pray,
Differently, yet together,
Before there is no earth, no life,
No chance for peace.

source: http://www.mattieonline.com/

Ahkenaten

31st March 2011, 16:59

And this child

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iAoWS9JbG4&feature=related

and this 3-year old in a high chair solves a Rubix Cube in 114 seconds!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSqUcrFJ498&feature=related

aroundthetable

31st March 2011, 17:00

Are there any 'scientists' responses to the first vid?

Ahkenaten

31st March 2011, 17:06

and yet cognitive genius is not the exclusive purview of humans - this raven has flashes of insight too!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8L4KNrPEs0&feature=related

Ahkenaten

31st March 2011, 17:15

And then, of course there is the famous grey parrot Alex who taught us so much about how smart walnut-sized bird brains can be----may he RIP!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4gTR4tkvcM

ANSWER TO AROUNDTHETABLE!!!

Are there any 'scientists' responses to the first vid?

No, just one question about how Jake used the concept of "zero" which has not been answered..............

Ahkenaten

31st March 2011, 17:20

I think the whole subject of 'intelligence' is very interesting - first our ideas about human intelligence and where it is derived from need, IMO, to be revised. Also animals demonstrate 'intelligence' as well as 'language skills' which used to be the one major differentiation between humans and animals. I think we should revise our thinking about intelligence to include the concept of CONSCIOUSNESS which is NOT exclusive to humans, and which is not in the exclusive purview of adult humans.....or humans that reach a certain age.

Intelligence flows from CONSCIOUSNESS......and of course it is socialization that tempers intelligence AND 'INSTINCTS.'

¤=[Post Update]=¤

More Grey Parrots

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_Fpad20Zbk&feature=related

aroundthetable

31st March 2011, 17:25

Well said ! :cool:

Ahkenaten

31st March 2011, 17:32

more Alex

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZ2j1jOwAYU&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWCs6APM75w&feature=related

Nyce555

31st March 2011, 17:40

Absolutely amazing!!

Ahkenaten

31st March 2011, 17:40

Chimps speaking with american sign language

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsyBItlLOR0

koko signs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VJgsiADba8&feature=related

koko's "personhood"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdLfZsUMp1g&feature=related

and then there is the issue of other primates walking upright - no one mentioned that Ambam might possibly consider himself to be a "person" in his own right

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxDI3s21yf8

more AMBAM walking

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kva_HlMk498&feature=related

Ahkenaten

31st March 2011, 17:45

And who is to say that other primates like gorillas are unable to feel empathy - even for US!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihUGT7MdDB4

Ahkenaten

31st March 2011, 17:52

I know you are probably thinking boy this thread seems to be meandering all over the landscape! When I initially began with the amazing story of Jake Barnett who is convinced, by the way, as have been others including Nikola Tesla and more recently scientists like Paul La Violette, that Einstein had it wrong and moreover Jake almost has his chops together to demonstrate that with equations; I realized that subject (child genius) segued into the general subject of child "geniuseS," the profound questions of WHO WE ARE AND WHERE DO WE COME FROM (taking a side-trip into reincarnation), the subject of "intelligence" in general and how animals that we are fond of arrogantly looking down upon also demonstrate high levels of cognition and other mental and emotional states we have been so convinced are the sole purview of adult human beings. That is the rationale for the various subjects I posted on this thread which may seem unrelated but which, in my mind in fact are connected.

We really need to radically revise our thinking about all of these subjects to arrive at a more integrated, higher view.

Intelligence flows from CONSCIOUSNESS (which is everywhere pervasive) however Intelligence in and of itself is pretty useless - and in fact can be pretty destructive as WE SMART HUMANS HAVE PROVEN TIME AND TIME AGAIN - unless intelligence is firmly grounded in CONSCIOUSNESS, and thoroughly disciplined with firm socialization and POSITIVE VALUES based on respect for life and ALL LIVING and "NON-LIVING" BEINGS in creation.

It is all about energetics - consciousness underpins and permeates ALL THINGS.

Unless we wake up and get this, we really are working against our own best interests and - against creation itself!

Ahkenaten

31st March 2011, 18:03

And then there is the whole thorny subject of "ART"....................apparently humans are not the only creatures interesting in making such creations (my theory is that art, universally admired as it is, arises mostly out of boredom! lol) Art being one of the ultimate expressions of the PLAY OF CONSCIOUSNESS.....it should not surprise us that other living beings are also moved to CREATE, an activity that is an end unto itself!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=He7Ge7Sogrk

I like this one the best plus you can see the elephant painting a little bit better

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNogdpHeuiE&feature=related

Even horses have developed a knack with a paintbrush and paint! It's all in the LIPS!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9l_Pdk4yNw

Ilie Pandia

31st March 2011, 18:26

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelookout/20110329/ts_yblog_thelookout/for-12-year-old-astrophysics-prodigy-the-skys-the-limit

http://newsfeed.time.com/2011/03/26/12-year-old-genius-expands-einsteins-theory-of-relativity/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=f2A7BlKbZlM#at=31

I am not very good at physics but at 2:15 he makes a math error.

He concludes: Gamma = INF. (correct from a math point of view)

He then says: Tobj = Tuni / Gamma (I will assume this is correct)

So then: Tobj = Tuni / Gamma results in Tobj = Tuni / INF

So the correct (math) conclusion is that Tobj = 0! So while we experience large amounts of time out-side the event-horizon and object inside of the event-horizon will experience no time! He draws the right conclusion in the end so I assume he just mixed the terms while writing the last bit: a second inside the event horizon would be infinite time for us.

I do not remember if his physics formulas are correct, but his math it is not. I will only say that in school I had to really struggle with the theory of relativity and I just accepted it so that I pass that class. It did not (and still does not) make sense to me :)

PS: I don't want to put down this kid! He seems to understand very well what he is talking about! I do believe that his mistake is just a "notation mistake" because his reasoning is correct. Should he watch this recording he will spot that immediately.

Ahkenaten

31st March 2011, 18:37

Ilie could it be that (I AM NOT A MATH WHIZ AT ALL!) because the child does not accept Einstein's theory of relativity that he approaches the problem differently?

Ilie Pandia

31st March 2011, 18:42

Ahkenaten

31st March 2011, 19:01

Ilie could it be that (I AM NOT A MATH WHIZ AT ALL!) because the child does not accept Einstein's theory of relativity that he approaches the problem differently?

I do not understand what his problem is with Einstein. I think I can guess what it is, but is not my field at all, so I will not get into that.

I was simply pointing out a tiny mistake in the way he wrote stuff on the board. BUT, his conclusion is correct, and this means that inside his head the math is correct. He just make a mistake in writing that down. That tends to happen you explain the same thing over and over again. Teachers do that all the time to the delight of the student that spots it :).

PS: I went over your posted article (http://newsfeed.time.com/2011/03/26/12-year-old-genius-expands-einsteins-theory-of-relativity/). This kid is indeed asking some tough questions. I hope no teacher will be able to "educate him" into accepting current answers.

I am so happy that someone who is able to assess the child's perspective at least somewhat from his POV using his tools comes to that conclusion. I do not have the skills to evaluate his methods or his evolving theories. But AMAZING this child is, as are other gifted children!

He is so clear and unaffected in his expression, so obviously enjoying working out these enormous puzzles. The most amazing thing of all is that, as you pointed out - HE HAS THE WHOLE THING IN HIS HEAD - including very big concepts like stars going into super nova and the way the energetic processes underpinning our magnificent universe actually work!!

K626

31st March 2011, 20:07

Yeah won't be experiencing any time, infact won't be experiencing anything at all cause the object will be crushed. ;)

K

Agape

31st March 2011, 21:09

I am not very good at physics but at 2:15 he makes a math error.

He concludes: Gamma = INF. (correct from a math point of view)

He then says: Tobj = Tuni / Gamma (I will assume this is correct)

So then: Tobj = Tuni / Gamma results in Tobj = Tuni / INF

So the correct (math) conclusion is that Tobj = 0! So while we experience large amounts of time out-side the event-horizon and object inside of the event-horizon will experience no time! He draws the right conclusion in the end so I assume he just mixed the terms while writing the last bit: a second inside the event horizon would be infinite time for us.

Hello Ille,

don't forget it's just the theory of relativity from our point of view . The value of gamma = infinity is hypothetical presumption.
It's not a real value of the velocity . It's the-value-we-observe from our visibility spectrum of universe with average speed of light ..3, 00 km /s .

From my out-of-box view of physics ,

so far , they forget one basic but substantial principle is not correct . Speed of light and other commonly accepted constants are not constants valid for all universe.

Why again and how do we know ..

The SL ( speed of light ) in any closed ( hypothetical ..read hyperbola :lol:) system, such as Star system depends on the average pulse of speed /frequency the Star is emitting photons to the system .

That again depends on the mass and speed of processes happening in the Star core since its birth so to say ,

imagine superstar million times bigger than our sun.

This physics merely started to count universe based on few proceesses observed in local system.

In reality , the SL differs according to Star magnitude etc. If we count Stars being so and so far from this Sun according to the visibility spectrum we are prone to make many grave mistakes.

And so and so forth. It's still going to follow the rules of Einsteinian relativity . But,

the observer has to be unplugged from single star systems constants to get it more correct.

In fact we all learn by observation. The hypothetical logic above should be matching for all.

Such as if you say gamma=infinite, it's not true. It only describes that whatever is beyond horizon of our light spectrum and here, in the case of star collapsing to black hole ( different time space ) the speed how it happens is very high.
Lets say..so high, that we simple say infinite.

The same goes for Tobj. and Tuni.

The Time of Universe is presumed as 0 . The Time obj. is presumed as 0.

The Tuni. in reality is not a 0. It's rather hard to count .

There's lots of fun in math with dividing things with 0 or infinite. It produces often the most amazing results.

It's a good luck that this boy is so gifted and likes to play at the same time ...

:pray:

Ahkenaten

1st April 2011, 03:26

Are there any 'scientists' responses to the first vid?

Hello aroundthetable - no haven't heard any scientific comments on Jacob's theories yet although Ilie did find a minor error in the way he wrote his computations but as it turned out the error was only in the way he wrote them, his conclusions and thinking were correct!