What the heck happened to the school system???

[Calz]

This is wild. From Maxwell Jordan's site and it is an older one so perhaps it has been posted here before.

This clearly shows the decline in the education system here in the usa (not sure how/if it applies overseas).

Take a look at this *8th Grade Test* from Salina Kansas in the year 1895.

Astonishing!!! :jaw: :yield: :faint2:


12601


here is the link if you want clearer copy of pdf:

http://jordanmaxwell.com/articles/monkey/monkey3.html

*** late addition ***

For some reason the attached pdf file is no longer showing up (at least on this cpu without clicking upper right box) so take the link if you cannot see it either. Worth the time.


http://jordanmaxwell.com/articles/8th-2520grade-2520test.pdf

[DianeKJ]

lol, wow!:yield:

[TigaHawk]

I now feel dumb for some reason :(

[trenairio]

[edit][edit][edit]

[Calz]

Nothing comes close to this difficulty in high school, maybe Calculus and accelerated courses. To briefly summarize what has happened: supposedly everything (I mean everything) was made easier and the passing grades were played down to have as much kids to get into college as possible. I admit there are some public schools that make it more challenging and make passing grades higher, but nevertheless the whole system is deliberately 'dumbed down'.

This in combination with a million other factors of suppression of the sovereignty of the human entity. Such as the scientific fundamentalism that ignores everything philosophical or enlightening, under the so called guises of "logical positivism" and the separation of church and state. It was this Scientism [the establishment], as revealed in the Dane Tops interview, that collaborated hand in hand with the elite to dismantle the [spiritual] movements of the freedom of the human psyche and soul such as The Original Scientology, the 60's movements, free energy/Nicola Tesla, new thought, libertarianism (constitutional law), and multiple others. As long as this current establishment stays in power the world will not have freedom.

A MASSIVE overhaul of global civilization has to occur, what is more likely is a total meltdown due to the very disorderly state of almost every facet of the system. Whatever is imminent better happen soon, or else the great instability that has been looming for a very long time is going to cause the can to disastrously explode. Hope the overhaul runs slower and smoother than I expect.

Agreed.

Add to that the environmental hazards that have been building up ... chemicals in the food, water and air, electronic bombardment via cell phone towers, wireless and haarp etc etc etc.

That is what is so interesting about this 1895 8th grade finals exam ... it really gets in your face just how very much things have changed in the last 116 years!!!

Hmmm ... I believe that figure is correct ... perhaps I should text my 9 year old so he can whip out his calculator and verify it :)

[bitworm]

Might need to look over one of these first:

http://i.imgur.com/CFsBu.jpg

And in all fairness, for U.S. History, the last 100 yrs has a lot more 'material' than the first 100 yrs.

[chelmostef]

Seems they where teaching something useful and not conditioning towards breaking ones spirit.

The founding fathers were actually trying to do somthing great.. We only need to look towards who stoped this.

[Freeman]

check out this movie : Waiting for Superman

"The film dismisses with a side comment the inconvenient truth that our schools are criminally underfunded. Money's not the answer, it glibly declares. Nor does it suggest that students would have better outcomes if their communities had jobs, health care, decent housing, and a living wage. Particularly dishonest is the fact that Guggenheim never mentions the tens of millions of dollars of private money that has poured into the Harlem Children's Zone, the model and superman we are relentlessly instructed to aspire to."
— Rick Ayers, Adjunct Professor in Education at the University of San Francisco[22]

The education is one of the way used for mind control,brainwash(history class o_O) ,division between rich(elite) and poor,left brain and right brain ect...we have to get "good grade"in order to get a "good job".

In China they have a ranking based on the test at the end of hight school that will decide in which university they can go(so which major they can choose) but at the end getting a good job is still based a lot on relation(hight rank).There is a lot of pressure for the student and i already saw many young Chinese student getting white hair.

In France,we have more and more people with 5 years university and still have to work as barman because no practical skill is taught in the cursus.

I think school system should be more about developing human potential than "Educate" them but if they are doing that they will run out of slaves :/

[Calz]

check out this movie : Waiting for Superman

"The film dismisses with a side comment the inconvenient truth that our schools are criminally underfunded. Money's not the answer, it glibly declares. Nor does it suggest that students would have better outcomes if their communities had jobs, health care, decent housing, and a living wage. Particularly dishonest is the fact that Guggenheim never mentions the tens of millions of dollars of private money that has poured into the Harlem Children's Zone, the model and superman we are relentlessly instructed to aspire to."
— Rick Ayers, Adjunct Professor in Education at the University of San Francisco[22]

The education is one of the way used for mind control,brainwash(history class o_O) ,division between rich(elite) and poor,left brain and right brain ect...we have to get "good grade"in order to get a "good job".

In China they have a ranking based on the test at the end of hight school that will decide in which university they can go(so which major they can choose) but at the end getting a good job is still based a lot on relation(hight rank).There is a lot of pressure for the student and i already saw many young Chinese student getting white hair.

In France,we have more and more people with 5 years university and still have to work as barman because no practical skill is taught in the cursus.

I think school system should be more about developing human potential than "Educate" them but if they are doing that they will run out of slaves :/

Thank you for your reply and Welcome to Avalon :)

You bring out some good points. The left/right hemisphere approach is quite correct (imho). As infants (at least here) we are encouraged to become right handed (thus starting us on the path to left brain dominance). School system "rewards" the logical and rational. Creativity and intuitive thinking don't quite fit as well.

[Ineffable Hitchhiker]

This in combination with a million other factors of suppression of the sovereignty of the human entity. Such as the scientific fundamentalism that ignores everything philosophical or enlightening, under the so called guises of "logical positivism" and the separation of church and state. It was this Scientism [the establishment], as revealed in the Dane Tops interview, that collaborated hand in hand with the elite to dismantle the [spiritual] movements of the freedom of the human psyche and soul such as The Original Scientology, the 60's movements, free energy/Nicola Tesla, new thought, libertarianism (constitutional law), and multiple others. As long as this current establishment stays in power the world will not have freedom. What needs to happen is that the word has to spread anywhere and everywhere, and someway somehow the people have to learn to listen-or else.




Thank you for that great comment.

Being a disillusiioned ex teacher I can only agree with your post.
Not only does the present school system (that I worked in) destroy the family unit but it also kills the spirit of the child.

Talking in a general sense...
There is nothing that empowers them; nothing that motivates or inspires. It mostly an upfront, non-participatory, left-brained, visual and auditory "stimulation".
The children are graded on their ability to regurgitate the gobbledygook that is presented to them, disallowing critical thinking, creativity and/or analysis of the infromation presented to them.
There are also far too many hours spent inside buildings and less time spent outside in nature.

The children that DO begin to question and have an innate disablity to sit still for hours are "labelled" dysfunctional.


That said, fortunately there are places/schools where children are encouraged and challenged but they are few and far between and mostly only available for parents who can afford it.
Also, some children manage to break free from the conformity and dogma, and do learn something valuable for themsleves as time goes by, as can be seen by the many people who post on this forum. :)

I just read a wonderful article by John Taylor Gatto

http://www.cantrip.org/againstschool.html

In it he said:-
""School trains children to be employees and consumers; teach your own to be leaders and adventurers. School trains children to obey reflexively; teach your own to think critically and independently."


I don´t have any answers or solutions. I do what I can in my environment to elevate and uplift the spirit of each child I meet, as best as I can.
I just hope that one day soon a viable option for recognising and acknowledging the needs of each child as an individual sovereign being, be established.

[Calz]

This in combination with a million other factors of suppression of the sovereignty of the human entity. Such as the scientific fundamentalism that ignores everything philosophical or enlightening, under the so called guises of "logical positivism" and the separation of church and state. It was this Scientism [the establishment], as revealed in the Dane Tops interview, that collaborated hand in hand with the elite to dismantle the [spiritual] movements of the freedom of the human psyche and soul such as The Original Scientology, the 60's movements, free energy/Nicola Tesla, new thought, libertarianism (constitutional law), and multiple others. As long as this current establishment stays in power the world will not have freedom. What needs to happen is that the word has to spread anywhere and everywhere, and someway somehow the people have to learn to listen-or else.




Thank you for that great comment.

Being a disillusiioned ex teacher I can only agree with your post.
Not only does the present school system (that I worked in) destroy the family unit but it also kills the spirit of the child.

Talking in a general sense...
There is nothing that empowers them; nothing that motivates or inspires. It mostly an upfront, non-participatory, left-brained, visual and auditory "stimulation".
The children are graded on their ability to regurgitate the gobbledygook that is presented to them, disallowing critical thinking, creativity and/or analysis of the infromation presented to them.
There are also far too many hours spent inside buildings and less time spent outside in nature.

The children that DO begin to question and have an innate disablity to sit still for hours are "labelled" dysfunctional.


That said, fortunately there are places/schools where children are encouraged and challenged but they are few and far between and mostly only available for parents who can afford it.
Also, some children manage to break free from the conformity and dogma, and do learn something valuable for themsleves as time goes by, as can be seen by the many people who post on this forum. :)

I just read a wonderful article by John Taylor Gatto

http://www.cantrip.org/againstschool.html

In it he said:-
""School trains children to be employees and consumers; teach your own to be leaders and adventurers. School trains children to obey reflexively; teach your own to think critically and independently."


I don´t have any answers or solutions. I do what I can in my environment to elevate and uplift the spirit of each child I meet, as best as I can.
I just hope that one day soon a viable option for recognising and acknowledging the needs of each child as an individual sovereign being, be established.

Many thanks to you as well as trenairio for very insightful posts!

Clearly the elite use $$$ to achieve their goals with schools as well as all other aspects of civilization.

Using the federal government to impose "standards" upon public schools I suspect is how it is done. The "no child left with a brain" ... err ... umm ... "no child left behind" from the last Bush administration comes to mind.

Neurological damage from big pharma.

Many city/county/state budgets awash in red ink cutting teacher jobs and slashing other funding for education.

What a nightmare.

trenairio wrote:


A MASSIVE overhaul of global civilization has to occur to ever make true freedom possible again, what is more likely is a total meltdown due to the very disorderly state of almost every facet of the system. Whatever is imminent better happen soon, or else the great instability that has been looming for a very long time is going to cause the can to disastrously explode. Hope the overhaul runs slower and smoother than I expect.

For better or worse, regardless of your belief system, BIG changes are coming and likely quite soon.

The "game" has run it's course for this "cycle".

I remain optimistic for the distant future ... but expect a heckuva bumpy ride getting there in the process.

[Wookie]

what happened to the school system? Working as intended IMO.

Peaceful Journeys Wookie

[Calz]

what happened to the school system? Working as intended IMO.

Peaceful Journeys Wookie

... intended by WHOM??? :)

[king anthony]

This clearly shows the decline in the education system here in the usa (not sure how/if it applies overseas).

Beginning at the 9 min mark in the video, the explanation (in part) why the education system is the way it is - not only in North America but the whole world. Listen to the words spoken - carefully.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nD7dbkkBIA

Norman Dodd (1899 - 1987) On Tax Exempt Foundations - Thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?15042-Norman-Dodd-(1899-1987)-On-Tax-Exempt-Foundations)

Excerpts from the transcript version of the interview;


"They then decide that the key to the success of these two operations lay in the alteration of the teaching of American History."

"... that portion of education which could be considered domestic should be handled by the Rockefeller Foundation, and that portion which is international should be handled by the Endowment."

"... They then decide that the key to the success of these two operations lay in the alteration of the teaching of American History. So, they approach four of the then most prominent teachers of American History in the country..."

I say, there is nothing wrong with the education system for it is working just as it is supposed to be - the problem is, what most think it should be and what the few made it to be are two different schools (pun intended) of thought.

Why is it that the 'few' teach their children to think differently!? Do they teach their children such things as, "think with your heart"!? Why should the most think with emotion first and the 'few' think with common sense first!? Once this is understood (and accepted), will not the most have understanding of themselves and the world they live in!?

Let none forget human breading practices, genetic manipulation, chemicals in food products, media manipulation and so forth - for all these things also contribute to "What the heck happened to the school system???" and why intellect is becoming extinct - with most.

[Calz]

Thank you king anthony. That was helpful.

Aaron Russo was a wonderful spirit ... I actually purchased that dvd :)

[TimelessDimensions]

The current school system is designed to produce obedient slaves.

I should know, I'm a high-school teacher myself hehe

[Calz]

The current school system is designed to produce obedient slaves.

I should know, I'm a high-school teacher myself hehe

Sad but *thank you* for your honesty and input!

:hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :whip:

[TimelessDimensions]

The current school system is designed to produce obedient slaves.

I should know, I'm a high-school teacher myself hehe

Sad but *thank you* for your honesty and input!

:hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :whip:

I'm causing the system to crumble to bits and the kids love it ;)

[The HoppyBunny]

i thought this was relevant =)


http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?16271-Education-NOW-based-of-baseless-knowledge

[Herbert]

The math (mill rates, school taxes, etc.) is definitely geared to the major occupation of the day – farming - and was a very practical knowledge necessary for upstanding local village citizens who would be future school trustees (unpaid of course).

I remember when English grammar was virtually taken out of high schools around 1964 in Ontario, which is also when they introduced exemption from high school final exams and also just before the school system decided unpaid farmers were not good enough to be school trustees. In the early days teachers were grade 13 graduates who were paid a reasonable wage, since they usually married after 2 years and they boarded with a local family. Their knowledge of grammar was fresh and extraordinary .

It was right at the coming onslaught of baby boomers when the red-brick schools had to be closed in order to provide “a bigger and better education system” with PAID trustees being elected instead of chosen from the local community. Apparently by providing their own free labour for necessary school house repairs, etc. (digging the well by hand, bees to re-shingle the roof) in a constant need to keep the costs of schooling down for the local village residents, the farmers were not progressive enough . . .

Yet they equipped their grade eight graduates with self-sufficiency and self-confidence in dealing with bankers and lawyers and politicians. Fundamental mathematics, and self-discipline seem to be beyond modern day University graduates. The red-brick one room schoolhouse turned out Independent, self-sufficient, free-thinkers. Such a goal is foreign to modern day school curriculums.

A lot of people can’t even fill out their own income tax forms these days!!!

Thus: the rule of law – the just society – the welfare state –the police state, and on and on . . .
Whatever happened to rule by responsibility?
A fearful prospect to the former controllers.

[rgray222]

There is absolutely no secret what happened to the school system in the United States and it is called the Department of Education. This over bloated government organization should be abolished. Do you realize that we have twice as many administrators in the school system then we have teachers. The consequences of tenure and unions have dumbed down the educational standards in the United States to the point of giving our children a third world education, maybe not even that good. The test that you so rightly put up was administered at a time when there were simply teachers, long before the government got involved and told us they knew how to do it better. There is nothing wrong with teachers unions as long as the dues teachers pay increases teacher knowledge and goes to improve the quality of education for our children. In todays environment is simply does not! For the most part dues are used as a political sledgehammer so the top union officials benefit and not many others!

We should still teach our children but we do not need the dept of education. We should still collect taxes to pay for necessities but we do not need the IRS, another organization that should be abolished. The list simply goes on and on. America has fallen into a trap of thinking the government can do it better and that is a false assumption and a dangerous trap.

The next time you get upset when teachers are laid off, ask yourself how many people from the department of education lost their jobs. The next time a school is closed or funds are cut for expansion of a school in your neighborhood asked yourself how much did the department of education cut from their budget! Easy to answer, nothing.

You need to factor in the"illegal" immigration on the quality of the education our children are receiving today. It has put strain on an already over burden system to the point where it is collapsing.

These are fixable problems but as long as we let politicians play political games with our children's education they will not get fixed. Shame on us!!!!

Our children need to be reaching for greatness not being told they they are succeeding by reaching for mediocrity

[Calz]

i thought this was relevant =)


http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?16271-Education-NOW-based-of-baseless-knowledge

Thank you.

@ 1:17 into the vid you provided:

"knowledge is different at different states of conciousness".

He was talking about states of alertness in the morning vs being more sleepy later ... but I would suggest we can take from that statement that elements of our environment and "control grid" if you will, can and do induce "other states of consiousness".

Thanks again for your contribution :)

[Peace of Mind]

It seems they were very unyielding in their conditioning back in the day, especially with the grammar. It’s a good thing the emphasis on the English language has subsided some, I’ve come to learn that the daily vibrations of speech is way more important…I suspect they already knew this.

Today much of the math and science can be debated on various levels. So, maybe that’s an issue as well as far as acquiring the right information. Still, I do think we are being dumb down, but mainly because we are becoming aware of the inaccuracies in what the organized learning institutions are telling us. IMO, it’s become more apparent because they are concentrating more on training students to pass state tests as oppose to teaching students how to actually use their minds and/or think logically. Plus teachers and schools are being nixed due to budget cuts…all the while we pay grown men millions to play a kids game. The Irony…
Yeah, I’m a bit indifferent; you can say I’m Bass Ackwards…

Peace

[NancyV]

My 30 year old son called me about a week ago to tell me his grades as he completed his first two years of college. He got mostly A's and his GPA for his 2 year AA degree was a 3.97. He had a German teacher who was very proud that he never gives ANY A's, so even though my son had the highest scores in the class, he got a B+, bringing his 4.0 GPA down. But he told me "Mom, I almost feel GUILTY! It was so EASY and so many of the students couldn't even handle it when all the answers are right there in open book tests!" His shock at what college was like was even greater because of not going to high school. When he went into the US Army he had to get a GED and his scores were extremely high. The GI bill pays for his college now.

He has been rather appalled at how ignorant the vast majority of students are AND at the quality of teaching of many of the teachers, although he liked most of them. He'll be starting at Southern Oregon University soon and we hope that there will be more students and teachers who will make his classes more challenging. He was home-schooled for the majority of his school years, actually self taught for the most part with guidance from me. A child is quite capable of learning on their own if they acquire a love for reading at a very early age. They only need some enthusiasm from their parents to stimulate them to be fascinated with the magical world we live in.

I taught my children that learning in and of itself is a joy, an adventure and a lot of fun. Reading was the key. I also think it helped that I kept them away from a lot of interaction with other children, so they were brought up by adults and not their peer group. Since we usually lived out of town in the middle of nowhere in their early years, it was easy to do. I am not a believer in the necessity of peer interaction at a young age and it seems to be a rather popular concept now that children need LOTS of time with other children. It never made a lot of sense to me that children were better off copying the behavior of other children.

The school system seemed better to me when I was going to school in the 50's and 60's, and that's not saying much since I was usually bored to death. So bored that I quit school at 16 and left home. If I hadn't been a prolific reader school would have been even more boring but reading is NEVER boring. I recognized that the education system was worse after a couple of years of starting my son in school in the 80's. The 3 private schools we tried for him were only marginally better so I finally got disgusted and kept him home. He was MUCH happier not going to school and learned more because he wasn't held back.

Nancy

[Calz]

Thank you NancyV ... that was great :)

In a moment of insanity I took the military examination because I wanted funding for college. I got a perfect score (or so I was told?). Thankfully I came to my senses (or more likely my Higher Self slapped me senseless when I was sleeping) so I didn't follow up.

Taking a 2 year community college computer programming degree there was only *one* class that was even minimally difficult. I remember chatting with the teacher informally who complained that a few students had complained to the administration because it was so hard. Incredibly the school board came down on this teacher.

Other thoughts from my life ... using "scaling" in grading such that there was a "curve" so even if the *entire* class flunked the test it was "scaled" such that standardized percentages of pupils fell into each grade bracket.

My youngest son (9 year old 4th grader) tells me his teacher doesn't care if he does his homework or not as long as he does well on tests (implying he knows the material). Additionally ... he has "snowballs" awarded to him for various things which he can later "exchange" for "forgiving" a low score.

What???

Home schooling well advised and kudos to you and those who can pull it off. Private schools for those with the means.

I appreciate what you offered for passing along to your own children. I wish we all had the freedom, means and wisdom to follow such a path.

Unfortunately most of us (at least in this country) have no option but to have both parents working (and with the economy that is even getting to be fortunate).

Thanks again for this post but also for so many others you have shared :)

[Calz]

There is absolutely no secret what happened to the school system in the United States and it is called the Department of Education. This over bloated government organization should be abolished. Do you realize that we have twice as many administrators in the school system then we have teachers. The consequences of tenure and unions have dumbed down the educational standards in the United States to the point of giving our children a third world education, maybe not even that good. The test that you so rightly put up was administered at a time when there were simply teachers, long before the government got involved and told us they knew how to do it better. There is nothing wrong with teachers unions as long as the dues teachers pay increases teacher knowledge and goes to improve the quality of education for our children. In todays environment is simply does not! For the most part dues are used as a political sledgehammer so the top union officials benefit and not many others!

We should still teach our children but we do not need the dept of education. We should still collect taxes to pay for necessities but we do not need the IRS, another organization that should be abolished. The list simply goes on and on. America has fallen into a trap of thinking the government can do it better and that is a false assumption and a dangerous trap.

The next time you get upset when teachers are laid off, ask yourself how many people from the department of education lost their jobs. The next time a school is closed or funds are cut for expansion of a school in your neighborhood asked yourself how much did the department of education cut from their budget! Easy to answer, nothing.

You need to factor in the"illegal" immigration on the quality of the education our children are receiving today. It has put strain on an already over burden system to the point where it is collapsing.

These are fixable problems but as long as we let politicians play political games with our children's education they will not get fixed. Shame on us!!!!

Our children need to be reaching for greatness not being told they they are succeeding by reaching for mediocrity

Most excellent post :)

Name something more important than our children (aka our collective future)?

[granny]

This clearly shows the decline in the education system here in the usa (not sure how/if it applies overseas).

Beginning at the 9 min mark in the video, the explanation (in part) why the education system is the way it is - not only in North America but the whole world. Listen to the words spoken - carefully.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nD7dbkkBIA

Norman Dodd (1899 - 1987) On Tax Exempt Foundations - Thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?15042-Norman-Dodd-(1899-1987)-On-Tax-Exempt-Foundations)

Excerpts from the transcript version of the interview;


"They then decide that the key to the success of these two operations lay in the alteration of the teaching of American History."

"... that portion of education which could be considered domestic should be handled by the Rockefeller Foundation, and that portion which is international should be handled by the Endowment."

"... They then decide that the key to the success of these two operations lay in the alteration of the teaching of American History. So, they approach four of the then most prominent teachers of American History in the country..."

I say, there is nothing wrong with the education system for it is working just as it is supposed to be - the problem is, what most think it should be and what the few made it to be are two different schools (pun intended) of thought.

Why is it that the 'few' teach their children to think differently!? Do they teach their children such things as, "think with your heart"!? Why should the most think with emotion first and the 'few' think with common sense first!? Once this is understood (and accepted), will not the most have understanding of themselves and the world they live in!?

Let none forget human breading practices, genetic manipulation, chemicals in food products, media manipulation and so forth - for all these things also contribute to "What the heck happened to the school system???" and why intellect is becoming extinct - with most.
What an incredible movie ... so sad we lost him.

[Calz]

What an incredible movie ... so sad we lost him.

We didn't lose him ... just harder for most of us to hear these days :)

[Lord Sidious]

Which one is the old saying?
Go to school, get a good education and get a good job?
or
Go to school, get a good education and learn to be a success at whatever you want?

Answer that and you know nothing happened to the fool....oops, school system, it works as they want.

[NancyV]

Thanks, Calz!

Amazing that you can make up low scores in grammar school now! My son also was surprised that they could actually retake many tests in his college if they wanted to increase their grade... after they knew all the questions. STILL most students didn't do that.

Congratulations on NOT going into the military! LOL... It was a good thing overall for my son and I think it helped a lot to expand his world and give him more balance. But he did end up with problems from jumping out of too many planes and injuring his back. Now he's getting disability through the VA, so maybe it wasn't worth it but overall he really enjoyed the 3 year experience and was very lucky to not have to go to Iraq or Afghanistan. He volunteered to go but his commander would not release him from his particular job.

You're right that nowadays both parents usually have to work to support the family, so sending the kids to public or private school is often a necessity. My husband and I were self employed so we were both able to stay home with the children which is probably the most ideal situation. Plus 20-30 years ago living expenses were much lower than they are now. Inflation has been amazingly high!

I don't know what the answer is to the deteriorating school system. It seems to go along with much of what is happening with the other deteriorating situations in our government, country and world. It is just a manifestation of the cycle of positive to negative, increase and decrease. Nothing is static but is cyclical and it seems obvious that this part of the cycle we're in is devolving in many ways. The education system is a reflection of the devolution of our civilization. Luckily as the more material structures begin to crumble it is often countered by an increase in spiritual awareness which helps to keep the balance.

[The HoppyBunny]

i thought this was relevant =)


http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?16271-Education-NOW-based-of-baseless-knowledge

Thank you.

@ 1:17 into the vid you provided:

"knowledge is different at different states of conciousness".

He was talking about states of alertness in the morning vs being more sleepy later ... but I would suggest we can take from that statement that elements of our environment and "control grid" if you will, can and do induce "other states of consiousness".

Thanks again for your contribution :)

Your welcome!

I am a student in College getting my bachelors in Education, and contributing is a job of mine as well prleasure. Sharing and interactign with experienced teachers and enthusiasts helps bring things into proper perspective.
i hope more educated and caring people such as yourself come to the light, and start changing the fundamentals of our education system. Sharing is oneform ofeducating the other, is acting NOW.

Right now in the U.S. Teachers and all people from different ages are already doing their best in the best-way-they-know-how... while followuing the regular qouta of standardize testing. this is KILLING THE JOY OF LEARNING FORMA LL PERSPECTIVES. especially from the teacher and THE STUDENT PERSPECTIVE.

now is the time FOR THE CREATIVE AND INGENIUS individuals to group AND THINK of different alternatives, for educatiion, and broadening our students minds in different AVENUES. Not simply simply catering to the standardized testing quota used by governement schoosl system today. All of that is being used to FINANCE and label schools.. A+ school C+ school, we are slwoly but surely CORPORATING OUR SCHOOLS and LABELING STUDENTS. OUR SCHOOLS A PLACE FOR LEARNING. this is indirectly influencing our "standard way of living"...thismethod is slowly disintegrating oursociety and what see value to...not to mention are STUDENTS subconcious in programming..
we're back to "survival mode".
We need a new education reform with different forms of assesing a students growth in learning. NO MORE F-CAT, M-CAT, C-CAT to finance schools... Higher learning, calls for integratign different forms of intellignce and CELEBRATING IT. Not simply catering to a future " job market".

How can we expand if we dont have the resources our EXPERIENCESSS to expand outside of the standard jobs we have available now?
We're stuck, and we're limited to going to and fro. living as we do now currently...

i think we need out best scientist, philosophers, teachers, spiritual advisors, etc etc. to help us change the education system we have been slumped on for the last couple of years...

[Calz]

i thought this was relevant =)


http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?16271-Education-NOW-based-of-baseless-knowledge

Thank you.

@ 1:17 into the vid you provided:

"knowledge is different at different states of conciousness".

He was talking about states of alertness in the morning vs being more sleepy later ... but I would suggest we can take from that statement that elements of our environment and "control grid" if you will, can and do induce "other states of consiousness".

Thanks again for your contribution :)

Right now in the U.S. Teachers and all people from different ages are already doing their best in the best-way-they-know-how... while followuing the regular qouta of standardize testing. this is KILLING THE JOY OF LEARNING FORMA LL PERSPECTIVES. especially from the teacher and THE STUDENT PERSPECTIVE.
...

I am sure that at the *teacher level* the intent is pure and I feel that completely whenever I meet my kid's teachers in parent/teacher conferences.

As always with most every issue ... the problem lies at the top (of the pyramid if you will).

[wynderer]

here's what happened -- from David Icke's Headlines, today

'The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America' vid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZJoCfgAEuE&feature=player_embedded

[Calz]

here's what happened -- from David Icke's Headlines, today

'The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America' vid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZJoCfgAEuE&feature=player_embedded

Thank you ... David Icke (imho) is very special and one of very few who have come here to have the strength, integrity and fortitude to bring these sorts of messages to us regardless of what personal retribution comes his way.

I highly recommend getting any of his last several dvd recordings of his speaking engagements or better yet experience his message in person if you have the chance.

[The HoppyBunny]

true., but we can start a revolution in our school systems and try to change it! XP.
Sharing the information is one part of the aspect, the other part is acting, in accord...and i say to this anyone or believes in this.
Joining the school you reside in is a PLUS, learning about the people who work their... talkign to the teachers, to the parents, see how they all feel, shairng the information that is a part of you, the revolution as welll acting as said Buddha in accord your highest ideals.
The more of who do this, the more radical the change and more "tangible" the process of aquiring back the rights you feel have been derailed...or stolen from you. all in all. i dont think anyone has "stolen our right to freedom". people can do what ever they want, act in accordance to a life in "handcuffs" or act as if none of that matters...i dont want to view my life as "my cup half empty" so i act in accord with what i can KNOW i know i can do. surely we can all work together someday and fix this tangled web...

[Calz]

true., but we can start a revolution in our school systems and try to change it! XP.
Sharing the information is one part of the aspect, the other part is acting, in accord...and i say to this anyone or believes in this.
Joining the school you reside in is a PLUS, learning about the people who work their... talkign to the teachers, to the parents, see how they all feel, shairng the information that is a part of you, the revolution as welll acting as said Buddha in accord your highest ideals.
The more of who do this, the more radical the change and more "tangible" the process of aquiring back the rights you feel have been derailed...or stolen from you. all in all. i dont think anyone has "stolen our right to freedom". people can do what ever they want, act in accordance to a life in "handcuffs" or act as if none of that matters...i dont want to view my life as "my cup half empty" so i act in accord with what i can KNOW i know i can do. surely we can all work together someday and fix this tangled web...

thank you ... as Duncan impies ... FREE WILL is what matters most at this point.

I dunno ... but am *way* too wimpy to argue with a super soldier :)

[Second Son]

I saw a very troubling interview (which I tried to find and post, but alas I couldn't locate it) with an elderly man who was an insider in the banking industry, until he quit for reasons of ethics. He was prominent, and trusted enough to be tagged by a congressman to audit some of the bigger non-profit foundations (think Ford, Carnegie, etc). What he found was so shocking, that his assistant, after being given access to the minutes of the meetings of the board members of one prominent, tax-exempt foundation, had to take an extended leave of absence for (mental) health reasons. She was so blown away by the blatant societal subversion and subjugation, that she just couldn't function for a while. Seems she learned about all of the plans of the so-called powers that be all at once, not piecemeal like most of us here.

The bottom line, and the reason these insanely rich foundations exist, is to co-opt society in general starting with total control of the education system. They do this largely through the Rhodes scholarships, which are given to the "best and brightest" in their respective fields of education. These people, who are carefully screened and profiled to fit into the mold of the NWO, rise to the top very quickly, and become education Secretaries (with a capital S) commissioners, superintendents, etc., and they have been molding society from the ground up fro many, many decades.

This is NOT about coincidental underfunding, it is about ruthless, premeditated, malicious mass-programming and indoctrination, designed to ever so gradually lean people into the socialist mindset (though under another guise) so that we will readily accept the one world government, religion, and currency as they are rolled out. If you are a nationalist, you will be labelled a separatist, or worse, a bigot. If you are free thinker, you will be labelled as a rebel or dissident. If you are just fed up with regurgitating inane "facts" back at your teacher, who is as bored as you (and can't help but show it) you are labelled with ADHD, and given drugs, usually for life.

[Teakai]

Aw man, does that mean we're not as sufisticka...serfistica...sofisti...smart as we think we are????

:(

Actually - I already suspected something was going on. I'd read the little house on the Prairie books and in one of them Laura was speaking about stuff they had to learn - and it was over my head.

[trenairio]

As pointed out by others, the educational system is to bring about workers that are all treated as a mere resource and commodity. It totally downgrades the inherently sovereign republican citizen to the status of serf-a maritime product.

[Second Son]

As pointed out by others, the educational system is to bring about workers that are all treated as a mere resource and commodity. It totally downgrades the inherently sovereign republican citizen to the status of serf-a maritime product.

I agree. I have a brilliant 16 year old son who finally got fed up with the system. He went from all A and A+ grades to C'c and even D's. He just knows innately that all of the crap he is learning is just that. NOTHING is taught as it should be... history has been co-opted by the victors, ALL sciences that are taught are the dumbed down version... We are still teaching our kids about multi stage solid fuel rockets (circa 1940) while we have bases on Mars. We tell our students that the "greenest" technology available is solar and wind. Result? The mountains are pockmarked by windmills when we could all have a machine in the basement generating electricity out of NOTHING for free, and the rooftops of those that can afford it are covered with solar panels which NEVER pay for themselves over there life-span, BUT DO put more money in the hands of GE, Sanyo, Siemens, etc. NO real medical breakthroughs are taught in med school, because doctors might actually graduate and start curing cancer and AID's. And god forbid they taught astronomy the RIGHT way... we would all know that there is another planet in our solar system. If meteorology was taught the right way, we would know that global warming is bunk.

I could go on and on. But you get the idea. I can't even FAKE IT anymore for my son's sake. What do I say? "Go and be a good boy and learn worthless and mostly false 'facts' and spew them back at your disinterested 'teacher' so you can get a good job and earn more than your fair share of fiat money... which doesn't really exist, but it a construct of the same PTB that are trying to control you and put you in a box (which you are forbidden to think outside of)?"

[oceanz]

Sir Ken Robinson: Do schools kill creativity?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG9CE55wbtY

[Second Son]

A great video which I watched a few months ago. Coming up with a "cure" (one would think) will be very difficult unless the real reason for the malady is known, pointed to, and spoken openly about. This man has some great ideas, but either doesn't know what/who he is up against, or worse... as the title "Sir" might imply, he's an insider who DOES know the reason our education system is so disfunctional, but rather than name names, he comes up with a very airy, fairy, new-agey, "solution" designed to divert our gaze while the culprits responsible have their way... or not. :confused:

[Lord Sidious]

As pointed out by others, the educational system is to bring about workers that are all treated as a mere resource and commodity. It totally downgrades the inherently sovereign republican citizen to the status of serf-a maritime product.

Google the term Thrall.

[VajraYaya]

Your welcome!

I am a student in College getting my bachelors in Education, and contributing is a job of mine as well prleasure. Sharing and interactign with experienced teachers and enthusiasts helps bring things into proper perspective.
i hope more educated and caring people such as yourself come to the light, and start changing the fundamentals of our education system. Sharing is oneform ofeducating the other, is acting NOW.

Right now in the U.S. Teachers and all people from different ages are already doing their best in the best-way-they-know-how... while followuing the regular qouta of standardize testing. this is KILLING THE JOY OF LEARNING FORMA LL PERSPECTIVES. especially from the teacher and THE STUDENT PERSPECTIVE.

now is the time FOR THE CREATIVE AND INGENIUS individuals to group AND THINK of different alternatives, for educatiion, and broadening our students minds in different AVENUES. Not simply simply catering to the standardized testing quota used by governement schoosl system today. All of that is being used to FINANCE and label schools.. A+ school C+ school, we are slwoly but surely CORPORATING OUR SCHOOLS and LABELING STUDENTS. OUR SCHOOLS A PLACE FOR LEARNING. this is indirectly influencing our "standard way of living"...thismethod is slowly disintegrating oursociety and what see value to...not to mention are STUDENTS subconcious in programming..
we're back to "survival mode".
We need a new education reform with different forms of assesing a students growth in learning. NO MORE F-CAT, M-CAT, C-CAT to finance schools... Higher learning, calls for integratign different forms of intellignce and CELEBRATING IT. Not simply catering to a future " job market".

How can we expand if we dont have the resources our EXPERIENCESSS to expand outside of the standard jobs we have available now?
We're stuck, and we're limited to going to and fro. living as we do now currently...

i think we need out best scientist, philosophers, teachers, spiritual advisors, etc etc. to help us change the education system we have been slumped on for the last couple of years...


Holy Cow..

I'm really surprised that nobody picked up on this. In a thread titled "What the Heck Happened to the School System" someone who is training to possibly become a teacher posts the above.

HoppyBunny.. I'm sure you are a good person but the above post illustrates a big part of the problem spoken about here. Hoppy, with the typos, spelling, grammar, punctuation problems and usage like that, how in the hell can you expect to be an effective let alone adequate teacher? Putting myself in your position, if I was going to write a post in an education thread and reveal that I was training to be a teacher, I would be extremely careful in composing my correspondence here. The above post either points to pure laziness or very limited English language skills.

Seeing this, I might surmise that English is not your first language. If you were not training to be a teacher, in an American College, presumably to teach American children, these problems would be understandable and forgivable. This can also serve to illustrate a problem within Universities that allow people in who can't use language properly.

Hoppy, any excuse you may offer regarding this really is invalid. Quite frankly, you should know better.

Also the willingness of the other posters here to not point out the problems in these posts from someone getting an education degree, points to how people in this culture today are just afraid to say anything, fearing to appear negative or judgmental, therefore ignoring the problems and allowing them to exist and get worse. Really, you can't complain about the education system and NOT comment on this kind of thing. Therefore, you contribute to the problem.

[bearcow]

I'm sure you are a good person but the above post illustrates a big part of the problem spoken about here. Hoppy, with the typos, spelling, grammar, punctuation problems and usage like that, how in the hell can you expect to be an effective let alone adequate teacher?

one of the quotes that you listed at the bottom of your post


If you're offended, you're just identified with something that's too small.

If the idea she wished to communicate was understood, the use of "proper grammar" is unnecessary.


IIWII

We are in the internet age, maybe your idea of proper English is outdated?

[VajraYaya]

I'm sure you are a good person but the above post illustrates a big part of the problem spoken about here. Hoppy, with the typos, spelling, grammar, punctuation problems and usage like that, how in the hell can you expect to be an effective let alone adequate teacher?

one of the quotes that you listed at the bottom of your post


If you're offended, you're just identified with something that's too small.

If the idea she wished to communicate was understood, the use of "proper grammar" is unnecessary.


IIWII

We are in the internet age, maybe your idea of proper English is outdated?

I knew someone would point out my sig.. Oh well.

Regarding your response on the topic though... ARE YOU KIDDING?? Did you even see the point? This person is training to be a teacher but can't write. Somebody earlier posted something about aspiring for mediocrity. If you can't see the problem here and defend this kind of thing then don't complain here, you are part of the problem.

The comment about the Internet age.. You must be young.. :rolleyes:

[Calz]

As pointed out by others, the educational system is to bring about workers that are all treated as a mere resource and commodity. It totally downgrades the inherently sovereign republican citizen to the status of serf-a maritime product.

I agree. I have a brilliant 16 year old son who finally got fed up with the system. He went from all A and A+ grades to C'c and even D's. He just knows innately that all of the crap he is learning is just that. NOTHING is taught as it should be... history has been co-opted by the victors, ALL sciences that are taught are the dumbed down version... We are still teaching our kids about multi stage solid fuel rockets (circa 1940) while we have bases on Mars. We tell our students that the "greenest" technology available is solar and wind. Result? The mountains are pockmarked by windmills when we could all have a machine in the basement generating electricity out of NOTHING for free, and the rooftops of those that can afford it are covered with solar panels which NEVER pay for themselves over there life-span, BUT DO put more money in the hands of GE, Sanyo, Siemens, etc. NO real medical breakthroughs are taught in med school, because doctors might actually graduate and start curing cancer and AID's. And god forbid they taught astronomy the RIGHT way... we would all know that there is another planet in our solar system. If meteorology was taught the right way, we would know that global warming is bunk.

I could go on and on. But you get the idea. I can't even FAKE IT anymore for my son's sake. What do I say? "Go and be a good boy and learn worthless and mostly false 'facts' and spew them back at your disinterested 'teacher' so you can get a good job and earn more than your fair share of fiat money... which doesn't really exist, but it a construct of the same PTB that are trying to control you and put you in a box (which you are forbidden to think outside of)?"

Thank you for sharing that.

Sounds like my older (now 14) son.

As a parent I try to "let my kids be kids" yet nudge them about what is going on in the world. Difficult line to walk sometimes. Anyway ... my older boy also had his grades start to slip as he started to question the validity of what he was being taught in school.

[Icecold]

Dumbing Down US Education: Part II – Wundtian Psychology & Rockefeller Finance

By Ron Chapman

Oct 29, 2009 - 7:04:00 AM


Wundtian Psychology...

Wilhelm Wundt created the modern version of so-called scientific psychology by drawing together earlier thinking but his real achievement was in establishing his laboratory at Leipzig University in 1875 and attracting students who would subsequently spread his theories all over the US and Europe.

Wundt’s theories had great appeal for the Rothschilds and would have suited their plans for humanity perfectly. Wundt asserted that humans are devoid of spirit and self-determinism (and hence free will) and that man is just the sum of his experiences. This atheistic, materialist philosophy dominated his approach to study of the human psyche. Indeed in practical terms he virtually denied the existence of the psyche and this enabled him to reduce the study of "man" to an external, physiological examination of stimulus and response. He said:

`The situation-response formula is adequate to cover learning of any sort, and the really influential factors in learning are readiness of the neurones, sequence in time, belongingness and satisfying consequences.'
[Pintner, Rudolph.et al., An Outlineof Educational Psychology, rev.ed.(New York: Barnes & Noble,1934), 79.

...........................

In `My Pedagogic Creed' John Dewey states:

The school is primarily a social institution. Education being a social process, the school is simply that form of community life in which all those agencies are concentrated that will be most effective in bringing the child to share in the inherited resources of the race, and to use his own powers for social ends.

Moreover public schools must `take an active part in determining the social order of the future … according as the teachers align themselves with the newer forces [?!] making for social control of economic forces.'
[Quoted in Allen, Gary, "Hands off our Children," American Opinion, XVIII,No, 9 (October, 1975), 3.]

So, teachers MUST align themselves to the "new" forces making for social control of economic forces. Righttt! Gotcha! No worries mate. She'll be apples. And WHAT, exactly, are the "inherited resources of the race" that schools are to BRING the child to share? Free range slavery? Excessive, Pavlovian eating and habits of social intercourse? consumerism? Using "own powers" to ensure (compete for) a place at the "social" feeding trough?



For Dewey, as for Wundt, man was an animal, alone with his reactions, and entirely dependent upon experiential data. He believed that teachers were not instructors, but designers of learning experiences on the Pavlovian model. Dewey promoted and implemented the inter-changeability of psychology and education and is regarded as the Father of the abomination that is American Education today. BUT he had help. James McKeen, Francis Galton, James Mark Baldwin, Andrew C Armstrong, Charles Judd, James Earl Russell, Frank & Charles McMurray, and Edward Lee Thorndike (who reckoned that:`psychology was the science of the intellect, character and behaviour of animals, including man' and who spent 30 years at Columbia Teachers College “teaching” that philosophy to huge numbers of "teachers") and others.

In his book `The Principles of Teaching based on Psychology' (1906), Thorndike defines the art of teaching thus:

`… the art of giving and withholding stimuli with the result of producing or preventing certain responses. In this definition the term stimulus is used widely for any event which influences a person, -- for a word spoken to him, a look, a sentence which he reads, the air he breathes, etc., etc… the aim of the teacher is to produce desirable and prevent undesirable changes in human beings by producing and preventing certain responses…'


Before "educational" psychology swamped the field, good behaviour was considered its own reward; and the idea of rewarding a child for behaving like a human being would only occur to someone who supposed that a child is essentially (ie only) an animal and would have seemed like an open invitation to blackmail to any sensible 19th century parent.


The real agenda of the Wundtians and their hidden bankster and corporatist sponsors was revealed by Thorndike:

`Subjects such as arithmetic, language, and history include content that is intrinsically of little value. Nearly every subject is enlarged unwisely to satisfy the academic ideal of thoroughness. That the typical school overemphasises instruction in these formal, academic skills as a means of fostering intellectual resources … is a justifiable criticism. …Elimination of unessentials by scientific study, then, is one step in improving the curriculum.'
Thorndike, Edward L., and Arthur Gates, ‘Elementary Principles of Education’ (New York: Macmillan, 1929), 308.[quoted by Lionni op cit p36 – p45].


The Creation and Funding of the US Educational Debacle

To create the compulsory formal US education system would cost an absolute fortune. Who had the money? Well, as it turns out, the new Wundtian behavioural psychologists who sought to exercise their ideas in the US educational field found themselves swamped with money from John D Rockefeller Sr. and his so-called philanthropic trusts.

In the 1880s Rockefeller Sr. hired Frederick Taylor Gates, a Baptist minister as his financial adviser and to manage his wealth-concealing philanthropic trusts. Gates had worked to distribute George A. Pillsbury's last philanthropies before his death. Thus the great monopolist Rockefeller solved what he called
"the difficult art of giving": 'If a combination to do business is effective in saving waste and in getting better results, why is not combination far more important in philanthropic work?'
[ Rockefeller, John D., Random Reminiscences of Men and Events
(Toronto: McClannand & Goodchild, 1909),165.]

In 1902 Gates gained the approval of Rockefeller Sr. and his son and a group of noted Southern educators to charter the General Education Board, for "the promotion of education within the United States without distinction of race, sex, or creed." It was to be a philanthropic monopoly. In the words of Gates:
'The object of this Association is to provide a vehicle through which capitalists of the North who sincerely desire to assist in the great work of Southern education may act with assurance that their money will be wisely used.'

Starting with a $1 million Rockefeller donation the General Education Board soon absorbed the smaller existing Slater and Peabody philantrophic education Funds. Gates stated the Education Board’s aims in its Occasional Letter No 1:
'In our dreams, we have limitless resources and the people yield themselves with perfect docility to our molding hands. The present education conventions fade from their minds, and unhampered by tradition, we work our own good will upon a grateful and responsive rural folk. We shall not try to make these people or any of their children into philosophers or men of learning, or men of science. We have not to raise up from among them authors, editors, poets or men of letters. We shall not search for embryo great artists, painters, musicians nor lawyers, doctors, preachers, politicians, statesmen, of whom we have an ample supply. The task we set before ourselves is very simple as well as a very beautiful one, to train these people as we find them to a perfectly ideal life just where they are. So we will organize our children and teach them to do in a perfect way the things their fathers and mothers are doing in an imperfect way, in the homes, in the shops and on the farm.'


Wundtian psychology and Rockefeller money were thus combined in an institution whose goal "was the construction of new curricula and the development of new methods." Textbooks were created; standard
teaching practices revised, and a course of study organized on the principles developed at Teachers College by Thorndike and Dewey. More than a thousand educators visited this fully fledged prototype school during year 1923-1924. John D. Rockefeller, Jr., sent four of his five sons to study at the Lincoln School, with results that were predictable had he read the works of Thorndike and Dewey:

...Laurance [Rockefeller] gives startling confirmation as to 'Why Johnnie [sic] Can't Read.' He says that the Lincoln School did not teach him to read and write as he wishes he now could. Nelson, today, admits that reading for him is a 'slow and tortuous process' that he does not enjoy doing but compells himself to do. This is significant evidence in the debate that has raged about modern educational techniques.

................................

.............................

Article here.....

http://abundanthope.net/pages/Ron_71/Dumbing_Down_US_Education_Part_II_Wundtian_Psychol_3877.shtml

[peaceviddie]

This test only seems difficult because it is a quiz based on concepts which are irrelevant to most people. At the time, a student that scored well on this test would demonstrate to me that they have very good rote memory skills; on the other hand, I wouldn't be able to comment on his/her higher order thinking skills because the test doesn't ask many questions which require it. In the Canadian elementary system, 75% of a child's grade is determined by their ability to evaluate, synthesize, analyze, apply, & communicate what they know => just knowing facts is only 1/4 of the battle. I'm surprised that Jordan Maxwell would use this to prove a point.

[Calz]

Icecold wrote:


Dumbing Down US Education: Part II – Wundtian Psychology & Rockefeller Finance

Wow ... thanks Ice. I had not come across that before. Depressing but certainly falls into the "better to know than not" camp.

[Teakai]

One of my daughters is doing a teachers course at the uni - and she came in the other day wanting me to listen to an essay about the sun.

I told her that cosmologists are now saying the sun is cooler on the inside and that the heating occurs on the outer surface due to it magnetically attracting the heat source to it.

She said - well, if I want to pass this course I have to write what they want me to.

[Icecold]

One of my daughters is doing a teachers course at the uni - and she came in the other day wanting me to listen to an essay about the sun.

I told her that cosmologists are now saying the sun is cooler on the inside and that the heating occurs on the outer surface due to it magnetically attracting the heat source to it.

She said - well, if I want to pass this course I have to write what they want me to.

Ohhhhh yes. This is the template for boxing you into the system. lol

You have to play their game....unless you move into a department like STS (Science and Technology Studies). :)

Then you can go ape****.

[Teakai]

Holy Cow..

I'm really surprised that nobody picked up on this. In a thread titled "What the Heck Happened to the School System" someone who is training to possibly become a teacher posts the above.

HoppyBunny.. I'm sure you are a good person but the above post illustrates a big part of the problem spoken about here. Hoppy, with the typos, spelling, grammar, punctuation problems and usage like that, how in the hell can you expect to be an effective let alone adequate teacher? Putting myself in your position, if I was going to write a post in an education thread and reveal that I was training to be a teacher, I would be extremely careful in composing my correspondence here. The above post either points to pure laziness or very limited English language skills.

Seeing this, I might surmise that English is not your first language. If you were not training to be a teacher, in an American College, presumably to teach American children, these problems would be understandable and forgivable. This can also serve to illustrate a problem within Universities that allow people in who can't use language properly.

Hoppy, any excuse you may offer regarding this really is invalid. Quite frankly, you should know better.

Also the willingness of the other posters here to not point out the problems in these posts from someone getting an education degree, points to how people in this culture today are just afraid to say anything, fearing to appear negative or judgmental, therefore ignoring the problems and allowing them to exist and get worse. Really, you can't complain about the education system and NOT comment on this kind of thing. Therefore, you contribute to the problem.

Hi VajraYaya. I agree with what you're saying. I don't think this has anything to do with being offended, it's just stating an obvious point.
I read a while back that most teachers (I'm guessing they were referring to Australian teachers) lacked the basic knowledge in general education - spelling was bad and maths not so good, either.

We can barely be surprised, though. This is the path we've been led down.

[bearcow]

Regarding your response on the topic though... ARE YOU KIDDING?? Did you even see the point?

Yes, the point is a judgment was made on the competency of someone to teach based on the grammatical structure of a post made on a internet forum. I'm glad you are so wise to recognize that person is not competent and letting down the education system by foolishly stating how they feel without checking for grammatical errors.


This person is training to be a teacher but can't write

When has there ever been a time when the English language, or any language for that matter, isn't morphing into something new.


The comment about the Internet age.. You must be young..

A inherently brilliant and well founded statement based on countless amounts of empirical data, I assume.

In fact I am not young.

I guess I could say you are part of the problem then?

Thank you for stating your self acknowledged authority on the acceptable use of communication. I hope my grammar is worthy of this post.

[ThePythonicCow]

We are in the internet age, maybe your idea of proper English is outdated?
Yes, language evolves constantly, and yes, changes in communication technology as substantial and rapid as the Internet cause rapid evolution.

However, clear and accurate communication, with a minimum of typos, misspellings, and grammatical errors is still desirable.

If one writer has a hundred readers, then it can be appropriate for the one write to spend one hundred seconds polishing their work, if it will save each reader on average more than one second each. This reduces the total effort spent on that item.

The wider your audience, the more carefully you should compose your writing.

[Lord Sidious]

Listen, if you guys wanna have a sh*tfight over nothing, could you at least warn me first?
I could have sold tickets or something and your rage wouldn't have been wasted.
I mean, come on.
Japan is irradiated and we are fighting over grammar? Are you REALLY serious?

[bearcow]

fair enough

[Teakai]

Listen, if you guys wanna have a sh*tfight over nothing, could you at least warn me first?
I could have sold tickets or something and your rage wouldn't have been wasted.
I mean, come on.
Japan is irradiated and we are fighting over grammar? Are you REALLY serious?

M'lord - have you looked at the thread title?

And it's not a sh*tfight...yet.
Logic is outweighing emotion.

When the balance tips - then you can start selling tickets.

[ThePythonicCow]

Japan is irradiated and we are fighting over grammar? Are you REALLY serious?
Life is complex, and carried on in multiple ways in parallel.

Attending to one matter does not imply disrespect for another matter.

Even the Japanese, in some of their worst moments, were (from the wonderful stories I've heard) attending to the details of courtesy and honorable treatment of their fellow humans. For example, I recall hearing of a child concerned he was not doing his homework, as their house washed away and the father led to them to higher ground.

Life is not an either-or game.

[Franny]

here's what happened -- from David Icke's Headlines, today

'The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America' vid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZJoCfgAEuE&feature=player_embedded

Thanks, this is a well done little video; it reminds me of my school career which was downhill from the beginning. I could read in first grade and was continually punished for it, along with another child. My mother was told she should not have taught me to read as she was not a professional. I read on a 4th grade level and she was at fault for allowing that. It was not to be permitted so both of us were placed in the slowest reading group in the class to slow us down. The book we could both read in a few minutes took weeks for the slow group to read. Needless to say, we were both frustrated and discouraged.

Several years ago I had a conversation with an friend who was returning from New York where she works as controller for a large company. She is an emigrant from eastern Europe who came here as a teenager who married and raised her daughter in the US.

On the plane she sat next to a woman that worked for the federal board of education. This woman told her that the US no longer educated students but rather believed it best to provide training instead. The reason for this, she was told, is because most children will be moving into boring service sector jobs when they leave school and lack of funds for quality education. If they are educated they will be frustrated and bored so the best course for the vast majority of children is to train them to be satisfied with boredom, unquestioning of the status quo and the low level jobs that are available to them. She was told that there are not enough high level jobs for all that want them so those must be reserved for the children of the US leadership class who have access to and can afford the best education.

Needless to say, my friend was shocked while I was all too familiar with the system.

[Calz]

On the plane she sat next to a woman that worked for the federal board of education. This woman told her that the US no longer educated students but rather believed it best to provide training instead. The reason for this, she was told, is because most children will be moving into boring service sector jobs when they leave school and lack of funds for quality education. If they are educated they will be frustrated and bored so the best course for the vast majority of children is to train them to be satisfied with boredom, unquestioning of the status quo and the low level jobs that are available to them. She was told that there are not enough high level jobs for all that want them so those must be reserved for the children of the US leadership class who have access to and can afford the best education.

Needless to say, my friend was shocked while I was all too familiar with the system.

Yipes :shocked:

The "middle class" has been getting systematically removed for some time now.

Thanks for your post.

[Deborah (ahamkara)]

If you would like a brilliant insight into the true history and purpose of public education, please, please visit:
http://johntaylorgatto.com

John Taylor Gatto is a former New York City school teacher and his book "The Underground History or American Education" is brilliant and eye opening- well researched and documented. Everyone who would like to be informed as to the true motives behind our current education system should check it out. Namaste

[Calz]

If you would like a brilliant insight into the true history and purpose of public education, please, please visit:
http://johntaylorgatto.com

John Taylor Gatto is a former New York City school teacher and his book "The Underground History or American Education" is brilliant and eye opening- well researched and documented. Everyone who would like to be informed as to the true motives behind our current education system should check it out. Namaste

LOL

Love the title for his other book ... "Weapons of Mass INSTRUCTION" :haha:

Thanks for the link. Looks very interesting.

[Lord Sidious]

here's what happened -- from David Icke's Headlines, today

'The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America' vid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZJoCfgAEuE&feature=player_embedded

Thanks, this is a well done little video; it reminds me of my school career which was downhill from the beginning. I could read in first grade and was continually punished for it, along with another child. My mother was told she should not have taught me to read as she was not a professional. I read on a 4th grade level and she was at fault for allowing that. It was not to be permitted so both of us were placed in the slowest reading group in the class to slow us down. The book we could both read in a few minutes took weeks for the slow group to read. Needless to say, we were both frustrated and discouraged.

Several years ago I had a conversation with an friend who was returning from New York where she works as controller for a large company. She is an emigrant from eastern Europe who came here as a teenager who married and raised her daughter in the US.

On the plane she sat next to a woman that worked for the federal board of education. This woman told her that the US no longer educated students but rather believed it best to provide training instead. The reason for this, she was told, is because most children will be moving into boring service sector jobs when they leave school and lack of funds for quality education. If they are educated they will be frustrated and bored so the best course for the vast majority of children is to train them to be satisfied with boredom, unquestioning of the status quo and the low level jobs that are available to them. She was told that there are not enough high level jobs for all that want them so those must be reserved for the children of the US leadership class who have access to and can afford the best education.

Needless to say, my friend was shocked while I was all too familiar with the system.

This is the exact reason you never trust government, they look out for themselves first.

[Ineffable Hitchhiker]

Sir Ken Robinson: Do schools kill creativity?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG9CE55wbtY



A great video which I watched a few months ago. Coming up with a "cure" (one would think) will be very difficult unless the real reason for the malady is known, pointed to, and spoken openly about. This man has some great ideas, but either doesn't know what/who he is up against, or worse... as the title "Sir" might imply, he's an insider who DOES know the reason our education system is so disfunctional, but rather than name names, he comes up with a very airy, fairy, new-agey, "solution" designed to divert our gaze while the culprits responsible have their way... or not. :confused:


Yes!
I watched the video. (Thank you for posting it, oceanz)
He is funny and articulate and expressed my exact same views, including having no answers.
It is certainly easier pointing out the faults of a system and harder to implement changes.
And....even though his speech was interesting and valid, I don´t think any change will come from his side, he is part of "The Club". :wink:


What resonated with me was when Sir Robinson said :-
"Our education sytem has mined our minds for a particular commodity."

QFT


Perhaps the way forward would be to "starve" the beast. ie. more home schooling and less 3D materialistic mass consciousness.

btw. Thanks for the great discussion, everyone.

[king anthony]

I enjoyed watching the posted video - and thought I would watch another video. I was so disappointed when he appeared to support Al Gore and how human beings are the cause of climate change - also known as Climategate (http://www.climategate.com/); he begins his lecture with the said topic.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9LelXa3U_I&feature=relmfu

[wynderer]

isn't it ultimately up to the parents to see that their children get a good education? i fought for my children -- i homeschooled for a while, & later begged a good private school to take them in as scholarship students, which they were -- also they were raised without TV -- instead, they read books

[Calz]

isn't it ultimately up to the parents to see that their children get a good education? i fought for my children -- i homeschooled for a while, & later begged a good private school to take them in as scholarship students, which they were -- also they were raised without TV -- instead, they read books

Yep great point.

I would love to have the freedom to homeschool. How many families can live with one income? It can be done if everyone in the family is willing to make sacrifices and I salute those who have the fortitude to follow that path.

I am not particularly materialistic ... as long as I have internet access and can afford to buy a few books a month I am fine. My family members have their "wants" and "requests" as well and since I choose not to dominate and force them to lower their options of lifestyle I guess it is voted family wide to go the 2 job route.

I had never considered "begging a good private school." Kudos for pulling that one off as well.

I only watch movies on tv (which can be watched on a computer nowadays) but ... again ... I am out voted and not going to impose my will. I guess it is a fine line that all parents must walk and I admire you for making the right choices and pulling them off :)

[Herbert]

As a teenager, I ‘defaced’ a school desk.
An artistic friend encapsulated my commentary
Within an ornate red coffin:

Ruby Red without a head
They chopped it off you see.
OH
Flowers grow and Rivers flow,
Apples ripe fall from the Tree
Pretty things and you’ll agree
But not for me . . .
No Head
You see.

[Dale]

I think lowly of education, but highly of learning. Education is mechanistic by default, whereas learning is less a process, and more an interest-based endeavor.

For example, as a young child, I entered grade school performing algebraic expressions without pencil and paper. Though I could mentally compute the correct response, I wasn't given an acceptable mark until I drudged through the work of scribbling out the process, step by step. In education, those being educated must follow a protocol, unified for all. Little room is left for those wishing to "learn," or seek the information in manners they find most fitted.

As a previous comment stated, public education is well-suited to provide the common citizen with a paradigm in which they will find themselves blissfully content with a lifetime of pushing papers and living by the mighty, Gregorian clock. Learning, however, inspires all to reach beyond their complacent grips toward an infinity they both recognize and appreciate.

[vbt]

Even someone who served the Education Dept under Reagan says it. Kids are deliberately dumbed down.

http://www.deliberatedumbingdown.com/

Her book is now free to download. I may not agree with all of her opinions but I applaud her for talking about it.

I don't know if I look at the wrong kids but their curiosity seems dead. They're all focused on FB, mp3 players, smart phones, games, etc. My daughter posted on FB that she felt abandoned but didn't say why. One of her friends "liked" this statement. It makes you wonder.

[The HoppyBunny]

lol you can either become very very rich to try to fix the school system as my sister and her friend are attempting lol. or try to fix it from the bottom to top. (the elite). lol. am surry i didnt mean to come out "OUT THERE".

[The HoppyBunny]

WOW. I'm not offended.. my ideas are being kicked down of the post because of miss spelling. gee, i forgot, i was suppose i was suppose to look "the part" . since that what counts HERE for you guys to count ANY OF my personal ideas.

[The HoppyBunny]

WOW. I'm not offended.. my ideas are being kicked down of the post because of miss spelling. gee, i forgot, i was suppose i was suppose to look "the part" . since that what counts HERE for you guys to count my ideas.

Oops ANOTHER typo, did you see? i hope you didn't miss that.

[Lord Sidious]

WOW. I'm not offended.. my ideas are being kicked down of the post because of miss spelling. gee, i forgot, i was suppose i was suppose to look "the part" . since that what counts HERE for you guys to count my ideas.

Oops ANOTHER typo, did you see? i hope you didn't miss that.

Don't panic typonugget, just post up what you think.
Oh, and keep the carrots handy.

[Zook]

Seems they where teaching something useful and not conditioning towards breaking ones spirit.
The founding fathers were actually trying to do somthing great.. We only need to look towards who stoped this.

Research Norman Dodd and the engineered decline of the American Educational Empire. Here's a six-part primer:

Part I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBLclB6J7Gk&feature=watch_response_rev

Part II

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvL27Qq9nOk&feature=related

Part III

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Scm4XBmSUU&feature=related

Part IV

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mbl_tIXlSEc&feature=related

Part V

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyl0z0S6fyM&feature=related

Part VI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWRmHi70EoU&feature=related


:typing:

[Teakai]

isn't it ultimately up to the parents to see that their children get a good education? i fought for my children -- i homeschooled for a while, & later begged a good private school to take them in as scholarship students, which they were -- also they were raised without TV -- instead, they read books

I agree Wynderer. Ultimately it's up to the parents to see that their children are educated (not sure if 'educated' is the correct word to use). The system has an agenda to not only not educate, but to stop children thinking - so we know we can't rely on the system to do what is best for the child's potential. I can't see any other way around it - unless the education system suddenly makes a complete reversal.

[Second Son]

I see you found the video I mentioned earlier in this thread, Zook, which I couldn't locate. Good work. I would like to watch it again just to refresh my memory. This guy's words are all coming true.

[Hervé]

What happened to the school system is what happened to many countries as a whole and summarized in this booklet:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/7680588/The-Soviet-Art-of-Brainwashing

Replace Soviet and communists by illuminati and you've got the recipe that's been cooked upon all of us.

The entire thing generated by dear Wilhelm Wundt as explained in Icecold post.

[ThePythonicCow]

I saw a very troubling interview (which I tried to find and post, but alas I couldn't locate it) with an elderly man who was an insider in the banking industry, until he quit for reasons of ethics. He was prominent, and trusted enough to be tagged by a congressman to audit some of the bigger non-profit foundations (think Ford, Carnegie, etc). What he found was so shocking, that his assistant, after being given access to the minutes of the meetings of the board members of one prominent, tax-exempt foundation, had to take an extended leave of absence for (mental) health reasons. She was so blown away by the blatant societal subversion and subjugation, that she just couldn't function for a while. Seems she learned about all of the plans of the so-called powers that be all at once, not piecemeal like most of us here.

Yes - I saw that as well. It took me a day to remember.

I believe you are speaking of G. Edward Griffin's interview of Norman Dodd (video link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqyRAxW-uOg), transcript link (http://www.supremelaw.org/authors/dodd/interview.htm)):

zqyRAxW-uOg

P.S. -- Reading back up, I see Zook beat me to this Norman Dodd interview. Good.

[king anthony]

[:

I posted the same on page one.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


I see Zook beat me to this Norman Dodd interview. Good.

Page one beat you both :)

[wynderer]

What happened to the school system is what happened to many countries as a whole and summarized in this booklet:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/7680588/The-Soviet-Art-of-Brainwashing

Replace Soviet and communists by illuminati and you've got the recipe that's been cooked upon all of us.

The entire thing generated by dear Wilhelm Wundt as explained in Icecold post.

yep -- it's the New WORLD Order -- & it's the entire human race being dumbed down

[Franny]

Give a listen to Russel Means, Lakota leader talk about the reservation that America has become and how the education system has fallen to a much lower level.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyQtrxLS92A&feature=related

[Lord Sidious]

Give a listen to Russel Means, Lakota leader talk about the reservation that America has become and how the education system has fallen to a much lower level.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyQtrxLS92A&feature=related

Let's see if that worked.

[Freeman]

Something strikes me very hard yesterday,after seeing a lecture online it is that we most focus on what is failing an not working rather than what is working for us,what system is working?what king of educational system do we want for our children,and even for us?

A name and a system came out of the lecture:Marva N.Collins

Marva Collins grew up in Atmore, Alabama at a time when segregation was the rule. Black people were not permitted to use the public library, and her schools had few books, and no indoor plumbing. Nonetheless, her family instilled in her an awareness of the family's historical excellence and helped develop her strong desire for learning, achievement and independence. After graduating from Clark College in Atlanta, Georgia, she taught school in Alabama for two years. She moved to Chicago and taught in Chicago's public school system for fourteen years.

Her experiences in that system, coupled with her dissatisfaction with the quality of education that her two youngest children were receiving in prestigious private schools, convinced her that children deserved better than what was passing for acceptable education. That conviction led to her decision to open her own school on the second floor of her home. She took the $5,000 balance in her school pension fund and began her educational program with an enrollment of her own two children and four other neighborhood youngsters.

Thus, Westside Preparatory School was founded in 1975 in Garfield Park, a Chicago inner-city area. During the first year, Marva took in learning disabled, problem children and even one child who had been labeled by Chicago public school authorities as borderline retarded. At the end of the first year, every child scored at least five grades higher proving that the previous labels placed on these children were misguided. The CBS program, 60 Minutes, visited her school for the second time in 1996. That little girl who had been labeled as border line retarded, graduated in 1976 from college Summa Cum Laude. It was documented on the 60 Minutes programs in 1996. Marva's graduates have entered some of the nation's finest colleges and universities, such as Harvard, Yale, and Stanford, to mention just a few. And, they have become physicians, lawyers, engineers, educators, and entered other professions.

Ms. Collins has received many accolades in recognition of her outstanding work with children. She was featured on Good Morning, America, 20/20, Fox News, and many more programs too numerous to list. A made-for-television movie titled, The Marva Collins Story starred Cicely Tyson and Morgan Freeman first aired in1 1982, and is still presented on television. Some of her awards include:

- The Jefferson Award for Benefiting the Disadvantaged
- The Humanitarian Award for Excellence
- Legendary Women of the World Award
- Many honorary doctoral degrees from universities such as
Amherst, Dartmouth, Notre Dame, and Clark University
- The prestigious National Humanities Medal from President Bush in 2004

She has turned the responsibilities of running her school over to her daughter, Cynthia B. Collins, who was one of the first students in the Westside Preparatory School. Today, Marva Collins trains teachers in her educational program and methodology. Her curriculum is based on classical literature, and other subject material that contain ideas, lofty thoughts, and abstract concepts. The purpose is to teach children the values that hold societies together and that present to students thoughts that may be interpreted differently. Fourth graders in her school, for example, read Plato's dialogue, The Republic. In it, Plato asks, "What is justice?" Justice has different meaning, according to one's viewpoint or interpretations. The students are encouraged to express their own opinion. And, as any observer of Ms. Collins classes will attest, the children are eager to participate in classroom discussions, and their verbal skills are outstanding as are their reasoning abilities. Her students are taught to appreciate the nuances of language, how to analyze and challenge what they read, and to express their opinions. They learn to contrast their own ideas with the differing ones as expressed by the other students.

Ms. Collins has spoken to many major corporations including The National Girl Scouts, The National Retailers Association, The National Dairy Association, The European Division of IBM, Xerox Corporation, The Million Dollar Roundtable, The Young President's Organization (YPO), The National Bankers' Association, Anheuser-Busch, Coors, and she has trained executives of Long John Silvers. Corporations have accurately discerned that the same skills Ms. Collins develops in her students are applicable in successful business entities.

Copyright © Marva Collins Seminars 2008-2011

from www.marvacollins.com

QUOTES by her

* "There is a brilliant child locked inside every student."

* "Don't try to fix the students, fix ourselves first. The good teacher makes the poor student good and the good student superior. When our students fail, we, as teachers, too, have failed."

* "The essence of teaching is to make learning contagious, to have one idea spark another."

* "Once teachers try the Socratic, or direct method of teaching, they will never return to anything that cannot produce the 'magic.'"

* "Success doesn't come to you... you go to it."

* "Excellence is not an act but a habit. The things you do the most are the things you will do best."

* "Trust yourself. Think for yourself. Act for yourself. Speak for yourself. Be yourself. Imitation is suicide."

* "Determination and perseverance move the world; thinking that others will do it for you is a sure way to fail."

* "Character is what you know you are, not what others think you have."

* "If you can't make a mistake, you can't make anything."

It is the first time i come across this name,never google "working school system"!!!(still didnt do it),it came from a lecture of "Positive psychology" give by Tal Ben Shahar (Harvard)

an i really recommend this lecture to everyone,wished i had this kind of class when i was child.Very inspiring for me enjoy and share :)

http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/ZM3oLIi8B8A/

for the other lecture you can go to this chinese google and switch the number at the end

http://video.baidu.com/v?word=%B9%FE%B7%F0%B4%F3%D1%A7%BF%AA%B7%C5%BF%CE%B3%CC%A3%BA%D0%D2%B8%A33&ct=301989888&rn=20&pn=0&db=0&s=0&fbl=1024

[giovonni]

Greetings,

Here is a radio podcast from American radio Works & NPR radio ~

Testing Teachers — American RadioWorks — How Do Teachers Become Good?

could this be the key...

The Benwood Initiative and teachers like Joe Curtis :thumb:

listen here:
http://download.publicradio.org/podcast/americanradioworks/podcast/arw_4_36_testing_teachers_win.mp3?_kip_ipx=1410186721-1303076597

***********

for more info on The Benwood Initiative
http://www.pefchattanooga.org/initiatives/benwood-initiative

[Calz]

Interesting series of vids from Alex Jones titled "Miseducation of America".

Some good stuff in here (1 of 5 ... follow links to continue):



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rhwDp-YFS4&NR=1

[christian]

great video

[ghostrider]

the nea kills the imagination, and creativity of the child, and makes them memorize information and thats called LEARNING? I say find a childs strength and passion and expand on that. build learning around what they are naturally gifted to do. Then they can learn to memorize in college cause they have already learned the good stuff.

[Gustav]

am going to take the test. Will update on the results. Must be good :D

[Carolin]

"The Deliberate Dumbing Down of American" worth watching

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZJoCfgAEuE