In the sky over Melbourne yesterday...

[Teakai]

This definitely looks interesting. It was uploaded yesterday, taken in Melbourne. A reddish object in the sky which then separates into two pieces.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLe9rD17L08

Where it separates:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHjw02CX60s

[bilko]

Looks like a chemtrail aerosol device that has detached from a plane. Not that i would know what they look like.

[Teakai]

Looks like a chemtrail aerosol device that has detached from a plane. Not that i would know what they look like.

Then, why would you think that's what it is, Bilko?
And why would one keep moving and one stay in the air?

Also, it was moving at an angle and not dropping freefall - and there was no plane in sight.

[Spartacus]

Definitely 100% contrails from high altitude aircraft. Probably commercial airliners. The sun, beneath the earth's horizon, illuminates them so brightly that the offending aircraft are obscured. But you can see the vortices produced by airflow over the wing tips.

[Illuminaughty]

....Yeah, I gotta say I think it's a contrail too. I never saw anything separate either. It just looks like a contrail illuminated by the sun and at a shallow angle to the observers.

[Champion the Wonderhorse]

....Yeah, I gotta say I think it's a contrail too. I never saw anything separate either. It just looks like a contrail illuminated by the sun and at a shallow angle to the observers.

Yes that could be possible as the sun is going down. But it would be at such an angle giving the illusion of a fiery object. When the camera zoomed in, it very much looked like a fiery object.
If it was a contrail it does not explain the second object / patch staying in position as long as long as it did, unless it is a small patch of chemtrail.
The only way to be sure would be if it was also observed from different locations and any reports of downed satellites / UFO's / objetcs etc.

[Teakai]

....Yeah, I gotta say I think it's a contrail too. I never saw anything separate either. It just looks like a contrail illuminated by the sun and at a shallow angle to the observers.

Hi Immuninaughty (love that name BTW) In the first vid there was just one glowing reddish ball of ...stuff.

In the next video - they zoom in and it has become 2. One moves downward at an angle - the other just stays were it is.

Just sayin' - I've never seen a contrail do that - I though contrails were plumes of white smoke that followed behind a plane sometimes.

[Teakai]

Definitely 100% contrails from high altitude aircraft. Probably commercial airliners. The sun, beneath the earth's horizon, illuminates them so brightly that the offending aircraft are obscured. But you can see the vortices produced by airflow over the wing tips.

Hi Spartacus - are you saying there's planes we're unable to see because they're obscured by those things they're putting out?
What I don't understand if that's the case, is why aren't they leaving a long tail like normal contrails?

I'm not trying to insist it's not a contrail - only, I've never seen a contrail like that before.

[bilko]

Looks like a chemtrail aerosol device that has detached from a plane. Not that i would know what they look like.

Then, why would you think that's what it is, Bilko?
And why would one keep moving and one stay in the air?

Also, it was moving at an angle and not dropping freefall - and there was no plane in sight.

Hi Teekai
I'm not trying to disprove the video just guess what it is, you have a ufo there until someone can come up with a definitive answer. :)
I wanted to be slightly educated about my guess so i figured it must be a gaseous substance.
Contrail was out for me because of the shape and longevity of it. So, i thought it must be a chemtrail, either from malfunctioning or detached equipment.
I can't say why it hovers or appears to anyway.
I also guessed chemtrail because of the lack of aircraft as we know they hang around for hours slowly dissipating.

Just looked at the video again and it definitely looks like vapor from something falling.

[str8thinker]

Duplicate thread:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?17453

[Spartacus]

Definitely 100% contrails from high altitude aircraft. Probably commercial airliners. The sun, beneath the earth's horizon, illuminates them so brightly that the offending aircraft are obscured. But you can see the vortices produced by airflow over the wing tips.

Hi Spartacus - are you saying there's planes we're unable to see because they're obscured by those things they're putting out?
What I don't understand if that's the case, is why aren't they leaving a long tail like normal contrails?

I'm not trying to insist it's not a contrail - only, I've never seen a contrail like that before.

Hi Teakai,

Just for clarification - contrails are the effect of water vapour from a jet engine's exhaust gases condensing in the atmosphere. Depending on the atmospheric conditions at the altitude at which the aircraft is flying, contrails may sometimes form, sometimes not. Sometimes they last a long time, sometimes they disappear quickly. Sometimes the atmospheric conditions change quickly along the flight path of the aircraft so contrails may suddenly appear to 'switch off'. The stuff remaining can appear to linger for a long while after the aircraft has disappeared.

I've watched the videos carefully - these are contrails.

Disclosure: I make contrails. I am an airline pilot.

[Teakai]

Hi Teakai,

Just for clarification - contrails are the effect of water vapour from a jet engine's exhaust gases condensing in the atmosphere. Depending on the atmospheric conditions at the altitude at which the aircraft is flying, contrails may sometimes form, sometimes not. Sometimes they last a long time, sometimes they disappear quickly. Sometimes the atmospheric conditions change quickly along the flight path of the aircraft so contrails may suddenly appear to 'switch off'. The stuff remaining can appear to linger for a long while after the aircraft has disappeared.

I've watched the videos carefully - these are contrails.

Disclosure: I make contrails. I am an airline pilot.


Are you really sure it's a contrail, Spartacus? - after all, being a pilot you'd be at the wrong end of the plane to have a really good view of what it looks like, right?


*sigh*
Well, that is very boring, then.
Fancy getting all excited about a contrail.

[ThePythonicCow]

Duplicate thread:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?17453


True. Though I am not going to merge them, as both threads were active in the same time period, so merging would intermingle the posts of one thread with the other, confusing both threads.

[Spartacus]

Hi Teakai,

Just for clarification - contrails are the effect of water vapour from a jet engine's exhaust gases condensing in the atmosphere. Depending on the atmospheric conditions at the altitude at which the aircraft is flying, contrails may sometimes form, sometimes not. Sometimes they last a long time, sometimes they disappear quickly. Sometimes the atmospheric conditions change quickly along the flight path of the aircraft so contrails may suddenly appear to 'switch off'. The stuff remaining can appear to linger for a long while after the aircraft has disappeared.

I've watched the videos carefully - these are contrails.

Disclosure: I make contrails. I am an airline pilot.


Are you really sure it's a contrail, Spartacus? - after all, being a pilot you'd be at the wrong end of the plane to have a really good view of what it looks like, right?


*sigh*
Well, that is very boring, then.
Fancy getting all excited about a contrail.

But I have a very good view of other aircraft producing contrails.

Sorry to deflate your enthusiasm.

[Teakai]

Sorry to deflate your enthusiasm.

*si-i-i-i-i-i-gh*
s'oright.
:(



;)

[sangstar1]

This object is not a contrail I suggest you all take another look at this object on my channel.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNxm-8ms2yo&feature=channel_video_title
Check and explain what are those five circles. This video I took myself and to me this was incredible, its one thing to hear someone talking about it but when you witness this for yourself its a wonder to behold.
Can I just add that according to Colin Andrews, he thinks that this is a high plane, and according to the, Director AUFORN Victoria, he also think that as well but none of them can explain the five circles on this object after the separation. Also I need to add and this is very important. That the, Astronomical Society of Victoria a Chris Ellis just brush me of by saying and I quote: this sort of things happened all the time unquote. So for this man to say that before seen this videos of mine it only adds more questions.
Also the, Science Work, Bureau of Meteorology Melbourne were not interested in this object as well. Why?
Also I wish to add that there is another witness that saw and tape this object on youtube.
This was taken on 2 de Abril 2011. I have coresponded with him and we have shared photos of this and to me the hair at the back of my neck stood up when I saw this video and the photos. This video was taken in Cordoba Argentina in the morning at his home,take a look.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkO0tCOHTOw&feature=channel_video_title

[sangstar1]

Dear friends the Hume Leader has published my story and I am placing it here for all to read:

http://hume-leader.whereilive.com.au/news/story/sun-sets-on-greenvale-mystery/

[Tahi]

Does it matter that the cameraman says that "it is the same object as last night" ?? @ 1:42min

Thought might be important...

[Fred259]

Definitely 100% contrails from high altitude aircraft. Probably commercial airliners. The sun, beneath the earth's horizon, illuminates them so brightly that the offending aircraft are obscured. But you can see the vortices produced by airflow over the wing tips.

Hi Spartacus - are you saying there's planes we're unable to see because they're obscured by those things they're putting out?
What I don't understand if that's the case, is why aren't they leaving a long tail like normal contrails?

I'm not trying to insist it's not a contrail - only, I've never seen a contrail like that before.

Hi Teakai,

Just for clarification -
contrails are the effect of water vapour from a jet engine's exhaust gases condensing in the atmosphere. Depending on the atmospheric conditions at the altitude at which the aircraft is flying, contrails may sometimes form, sometimes not. Sometimes they last a long time, sometimes they disappear quickly. Sometimes the atmospheric conditions change quickly along the flight path of the aircraft so contrails may suddenly appear to 'switch off'. The stuff remaining can appear to linger for a long while after the aircraft has disappeared.I've watched the videos carefully - these are contrails.
Disclosure: I make contrails. I am an airline pilot.

__________________________________________________ ___________________

Superb Spartacus,…….. I missed you earlier post, I’ve been slaughtered on this forum by chemtrail worriers, so please folks just please respect the fact that Spartacus knows what he is talking about and that his description above is 100% cast iron fact. I have set his perfect explanation in bold for the avoidance of any doubt.


I think it may be contrails from your A380 Teakai, in nautical twilight. It does look unusual, but then again the vortices being produced are likewise unusual as you can witness on this video.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xl6iR7w7a_Q



Now then, you lot down under.

You know don’t you that the Americans make good engines, but you also know that the Rolls Royce engine is better isn’t it.


6966


This is the Rolls Royce Trent 972, three shaft architecture A380 engine, made by Rolls Royce Plc, Derby, England by engineers and craftsman for Aussie Jet Jockeys to fly.

Notice the world famous blue RR logo on the engine cowling; it’s there to give you a “nice warm feeling”, when you look out the window in the middle of the night, and over the middle of the Pacific Ocean.

I think we need a bit of this…………..Here is Deborah Hawksley, mezzo-soprano, belting it out….


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrAlmZ3N0MM

[Wings]

This object is not a contrail I suggest you all take another look at this object on my channel.

From my perspective the object is 'unidentifiable'. It does not look like a contrail from a plane to me. I agree with your assessment.

[Fred259]

Hi Sangatar1, I just noticed your video with the five white dots. It’s interesting the answer is I don’t know you have done something “modern” with the image which has shown up these five white dots.

I think it’s the heat from the engines. I think you are west of Sydney and so perhaps that’s where it’s going. Maybe even New Zealand. But why the five white dots, first and foremost are we sure it’s five but let’s assume it’s five as you say, the fifth heat source could be the APU (Auxiliary power unit) a small gas turbine engine situated in the tail.

One thing for sure is he has come a long way probably from London and with long over water flights its good practice to keep the APU running. It may even be mandatory on A380. The problem is if ( I’m about to shoot myself in the foot here) lets change things, lets assume these were American engines!, so if while over the ocean all the engines fail it’s rather a priority to get them started again. The quickest way to do that is via the APU, but if it’s been switched off and its cold soaked, sometimes they fail to start first time so it’s prudent to keep the APU running all the time.

I think that’s what the five dots are. Four engines and the APU. I don’t want to cause concern here, because even if the American engines were to fail they can still be started again but not at high altitude, what’s needed is a drift down commences to the four engine re-light altitude. I don’t know what it is but would involve probably the captain getting the manual out along with his glasses and finding the right page and graph, which he will then trace along a line with his fingernail to the figure on the right hand column perhaps 24,000 feet. I suppose the moral of the story is stick with RR!

I’m wondering if Spartacus would know about the APU; ask him to sneak a look at the A380 manual next time he is at work. After all Teakai will need a solid answer, she won’t accept just anything, expect to be cross-examined!

[JoeNashville]

Definitely 100% contrails from high altitude aircraft. Probably commercial airliners. The sun, beneath the earth's horizon, illuminates them so brightly that the offending aircraft are obscured. But you can see the vortices produced by airflow over the wing tips.

Hi Spartacus - are you saying there's planes we're unable to see because they're obscured by those things they're putting out?
What I don't understand if that's the case, is why aren't they leaving a long tail like normal contrails?

I'm not trying to insist it's not a contrail - only, I've never seen a contrail like that before.

Hi Teakai,

Just for clarification - contrails are the effect of water vapour from a jet engine's exhaust gases condensing in the atmosphere. Depending on the atmospheric conditions at the altitude at which the aircraft is flying, contrails may sometimes form, sometimes not. Sometimes they last a long time, sometimes they disappear quickly. Sometimes the atmospheric conditions change quickly along the flight path of the aircraft so contrails may suddenly appear to 'switch off'. The stuff remaining can appear to linger for a long while after the aircraft has disappeared.

I've watched the videos carefully - these are contrails.

Disclosure: I make contrails. I am an airline pilot.


Spartacus you are wrong, that is not a contrail. And even though you claim to be a pilot you have not convinced me. You sound more like you're trying to sell a story. You're explanation doesn't hold up to the well informed. I've been studying aviation my whole life. There is no way that is a contrail. Contrails are easy to spot by a trained observer. The speed, direction and movement are not consistent with any jet aircraft. What else you got?

To me the object looks to be massive in size and much farther away than a plane which is why the effect of the sun on the underside it is so pronounced. If you consider that when looking at it and adjust your perspective, it creates alternatives. The angle, direction and speed make it seem like it is much further out, moving slightly faster that the rotation of the earth, or the earth is moving.

In the last month there have been at least 12 asteroids passing close enough to earth to not show separation on the JPL NEO orbit diagrams charts. Many look like they crashed into Earth. I've been trying to track down video of these.

I heard on the audio, as did Tahi, that the thing came around the day before at about the same time, obviously in the same place. That could indicate some sort of orbit. And it would seem that on the second day it broke in two and possibly crashed? Obviously it didn't make it back for a third day.

Personally, I'd really like to figure out what this is. I hope it's an asteroid, that would make the most sense.

My fear would be that tptb are practicing their holographic skills for something in the future and if that's the case they are clearly getting better.

[sangstar1]

So what are this five circles?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNxm-8ms2yo&feature=channel_video_title

[sangstar1]

I took this video on Friday 8/04/2011 7:12:04 PM. Also check the contrail this object which could be an airforce plane.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKBs8x_yqg8&feature=relmfu

[Dennis Jonathan]

I've said this before, and I'll say it again.

Anyone who presumes to identify an object from a video like this (with absolute certainty) is most likely projecting what they (consciously or subconsciously) hope, want, or need to believe it is.

I am not partial to fanciful claims without quantifiable data. Based upon the evidence given, calling this an Alien craft, contrails, a comet, or chem-trails would all fall under that description. "claims without quantifiable data" aka "opinion."

If you are going to speak in absolutes, please present absolute data. If not, please consider revising your position.



My opinion - Interesting video, definitely worth more looking into.

[Fred259]

Hi Sangster1, we think it’s an A380 Airbus flying to or from Sydney at altitude in nautical twilight. You say it’s flying up, by I think that really it’s just a long distance from you and that this is an illusion it’s increasing in altitude. If it was increasing in altitude it would have disappeared long before you stopped filming. You filmed for 14 minutes, I think you would have lost it in that time.

You mention five white dots and these will be the engines see post #21 above.

It’s very hard to tell but I think it’s a long way from you maybe as much as sixty miles plus, and also it’s flying away from you.

@1.59 We can hear something is that the aircraft noise?
@10.14 I think you can almost hear it.

Others think it could be an asteroid But I’m not so sure. I’m certain they are contrails and its flying much slower when compared with an asteroid. JoeNashville above thinks it’s moving faster than the speed of the earth rotation which would be around 900knots or 15 miles per minutes. You filmed for 14 minutes so this would mean the aircraft was around 200 miles from you. I don’t think this is possible.

It’s a wonderful video and a glorious sky thanks for sharing it.

Perhaps you could check the date and time against local departures and arrivals from Sydney. I can’t believe you have 4 flights per day in each direction to London. I see one arrives at 19.20local so how many miles are you from Sydney?

The local paper published this.


Sun sets on Greenvale mystery.

18 Apr 11 @ 06:00am by Elizabeth Allen

WHAT’S that; across the sky?

That’s what Greenvale resident Sergio Correa is asking after spotting what looks like a fiery object moving across the sky last month.

Mr Correa said he filmed the object around dusk on March 30 and it was there the same time the next day.

“I got the camera out straight away, we have seen a number of strange things around here,” Mr Correa said.

“I think it could be a UFO because to me it looks as if the whole thing is burning.”
When contacted by the Leader, Perry Vlahos from the Astronomical Society of Victoria viewed Mr Correa’s video of the object and ruled it out as being a comet or a UFO.

“This is a common phenomenon under the right conditions in the west near sunset, or in the east near sunrise,” Mr Vlahos said.

“It is a vapour trail, also known as a contrail, from a high-flying aircraft.”
“Anyone that has not seen one before may be fooled into thinking it is something else.”

After viewing the video Airservices Australia spokesman Matt Wardell said they agreed with the Astronomical Society that it appeared to be a contrail from a high-altitude aircraft highlighted by the set- ting sun.

“Aircraft regularly overfly Melbourne at high altitude travelling direct between destinations in New Zealand and airports in Adelaide and Perth,” Mr Wardell said.
“This flight track is consistent with the YouTube vision.”

Mr Wardell said atmospheric conditions such as still, cool or moist high-level air could combine to produce the effect seen in the video.
Airservices Australia information states contrails occur when high temperature air from jet engines mixes with the surrounding cold air and can stay around for several hours.

But Mr Correa said he wasn’t convinced, particularly because in his video the object appears to separate into two tails.

“It looks to me that it’s burning before it separates,” he said.


Here is another A380 over Bucharest Romania heading for London at sunset. So the aircraft is flying into daylight but the sun is setting behind in the East.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_N5ZgYzj44&feature=related

[JoeNashville]

I've said this before, and I'll say it again.

Anyone who presumes to identify an object from a video like this (with absolute certainty) is most likely projecting what they (consciously or subconsciously) hope, want, or need to believe it is.

I am not partial to fanciful claims without quantifiable data. Based upon the evidence given, calling this an Alien craft, contrails, a comet, or chem-trails would all fall under that description. "claims without quantifiable data" aka "opinion."

If you are going to speak in absolutes, please present absolute data. If not, please consider revising your position.

My opinion - Interesting video, definitely worth more looking into.


Well said, I'm glad to see some people here are taking a hard look at this thing, whatever it is!






It’s very hard to tell but I think it’s a long way from you maybe as much as sixty miles plus, and also it’s flying away from you.

Others think it could be an asteroid But I’m not so sure. I’m certain they are contrails and its flying much slower when compared with an asteroid. JoeNashville above thinks it’s moving faster than the speed of the earth rotation which would be around 900knots or 15 miles per minutes. You filmed for 14 minutes so this would mean the aircraft was around 200 miles from you. I don’t think this is possible.



What I'm thinking is it's moving at the same speed or slightly faster as it's moving away from the camera slightly.

Those two videos of planes and contrails prove without a doubt it's not a contrail. As with virtually any contrail you can see the plane and the trail starts very narrow right behind the plane and expands. In my view those videos are absolute proof it's Sergio's video is not a contrail.

SO what is it then.

Here is the video from Argentina...

http://www.youtube.com/user/rodolfoturko#p/u/12/JkO0tCOHTOw

It's not video but looks like one or a few stills put on video. Inconclusive really IMO, could even be a contrail, from that angle it's difficult to tell with certainty.

Sergio's video is much better though. The 'object' It's almost hanging. Sergio wasn't even sure it was moving at first.

I can clearly see the irregular shape and contours of a large rock, as well as the shadows of those contours. The bottom part is in the direct light of the setting sun and you can clearly see shadows from the direct light. That is as plain as day to me. Especially in part 4 when he zooms in on the top section.

It's hard to estimate the distance, size and height above the ground. My guess is it's at least 5-10 miles in size and fairly high. I can't understand why it would be going so slow, unless it's incredibly massive and just looks like it's going slow. That might be the case if it's way up in the atmosphere. If that's the case it could be massive and a hundred miles away.

Or, it is a very light rock that has the appearance of an asteroid but not much mass, maybe like pumice? That might make sense if it gently floated through the atmosphere. Still very bizarre. If I had to vote now I'd vote for holograph projection, but I don't think that's it. I'm still researching some other ideas.

Man would I like to go back in time and round up a SR71 for a closer look.

I would think there would be more video showing up, but I've tried several searches
and haven't been able to find any more.

[Fred259]

I've said this before, and I'll say it again.

Anyone who presumes to identify an object from a video like this (with absolute certainty) is most likely projecting what they (consciously or subconsciously) hope, want, or need to believe it is.

I am not partial to fanciful claims without quantifiable data. Based upon the evidence given, calling this an Alien craft, contrails, a comet, or chem-trails would all fall under that description. "claims without quantifiable data" aka "opinion."

If you are going to speak in absolutes, please present absolute data. If not, please consider revising your position.

My opinion - Interesting video, definitely worth more looking into.


Well said, I'm glad to see some people here are taking a hard look at this thing, whatever it is!






It’s very hard to tell but I think it’s a long way from you maybe as much as sixty miles plus, and also it’s flying away from you.

Others think it could be an asteroid But I’m not so sure. I’m certain they are contrails and its flying much slower when compared with an asteroid. JoeNashville above thinks it’s moving faster than the speed of the earth rotation which would be around 900knots or 15 miles per minutes. You filmed for 14 minutes so this would mean the aircraft was around 200 miles from you. I don’t think this is possible.



What I'm thinking is it's moving at the same speed or slightly faster as it's moving away from the camera slightly.

Those two videos of planes and contrails prove without a doubt it's not a contrail. As with virtually any contrail you can see the plane and the trail starts very narrow right behind the plane and expands. In my view those videos are absolute proof it's Sergio's video is not a contrail.

SO what is it then.

Here is the video from Argentina...

http://www.youtube.com/user/rodolfoturko#p/u/12/JkO0tCOHTOw

It's not video but looks like one or a few stills put on video. Inconclusive really IMO, could even be a contrail, from that angle it's difficult to tell with certainty.

Sergio's video is much better though. The 'object' It's almost hanging. Sergio wasn't even sure it was moving at first.

I can clearly see the irregular shape and contours of a large rock, as well as the shadows of those contours. The bottom part is in the direct light of the setting sun and you can clearly see shadows from the direct light. That is as plain as day to me. Especially in part 4 when he zooms in on the top section.

It's hard to estimate the distance, size and height above the ground. My guess is it's at least 5-10 miles in size and fairly high. I can't understand why it would be going so slow, unless it's incredibly massive and just looks like it's going slow. That might be the case if it's way up in the atmosphere. If that's the case it could be massive and a hundred miles away.

Or, it is a very light rock that has the appearance of an asteroid but not much mass, maybe like pumice? That might make sense if it gently floated through the atmosphere. Still very bizarre. If I had to vote now I'd vote for holograph projection, but I don't think that's it. I'm still researching some other ideas.

Man would I like to go back in time and round up a SR71 for a closer look.

I would think there would be more video showing up, but I've tried several searches
and haven't been able to find any more.


Hi JoeNashville,

You say,

5-10 miles in size, that’s 30,000 to 60,000 feet in size! Are you serious? What altitude do you reckon it is?

You say; “Man I would like to go back in time and round up a SR71 for a closer look” Did you fly SR71?

[JoeNashville]

[/QUOTE]

Hi JoeNashville,

You say,

5-10 miles in size, that’s 30,000 to 60,000 feet in size! Are you serious? What altitude do you reckon it is?

You say; “Man I would like to go back in time and round up a SR71 for a closer look” Did you fly SR71?[/QUOTE]

I was guesstimating the size. The object in the video looked to be 20-30 miles away and it's quite large, but it's hard to tell with the angle. 1-2 miles isn't that big especially over distance. So if it was farther out in the atmosphere it would have to be much larger to appear that size. It's hard to tell. Even though most asteroids are fairly small larger ones are not uncommon... As long as it doesn't hit anything.

No, I've never flown a SR 71 but I can't go back in time either so I figured if I can go back in time, I could learn to fly one! lol I would only need to be back a few weeks in time.

I may have found an asteroid that may have been. The timing, orbit and speed is a perfect match. It passes right by the earth at a slightly faster pace, just like I suspected. If I were a gambler I'd say this was it. 2011 FT9

http://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/sbdb.cgi?sstr=2011%20FT9&orb=1

If you've never used the JPL orbit simulator, it's easy. You can go back to the period - late march and zoom in close. It looks like a perfect match, it cruises right by slowly over 3 days. I think it meets the rest of the criteria. It's listed at 26 meters but what's in the video looks much larger.

[Dennis Jonathan]

It's a daunting task to thoroughly investigate every anomaly that finds its way into the alternative media circuit.

I'd love to make a career of it, but alas...

My point is, objective discernment is healthy.

Absolute statements without quantifiable data is reckless. On both sides of the spectrum.

I resonate deeply with Richard Dolans approach on these subjects.

Start to train yourself to speak about such things as if you were explaining it on a national forum as part of a public disclosure process.

A fanatic believer and an obsessive debunker are one in the same in that regard.

Lose the duality, embrace the possibility, search for the truth.

In the end, there are no hard feelings, or disappointments if truth was the goal.

[Fred259]

OK I have that Joe, so 2011FT9 came close to earth, is that it?

How do you find the lat and long? We need to know if it was over Aus forget Melbourne if we can position it over say Southern Australia then that would be a success.

We need to find 09.12GMT Friday 08 April and position the rock over Southern Australia.

However if an object 100 feet in size enters Australian airspace why wouldn’t the Australian government not know about this? They should be able to see this on primary radar, so why has it not been reported and confirmed I wonder.

[JoeNashville]

It passed by on March 30th thru April 2 or so which are the dates of the two sets of pictures of it.

What does April 8 have to do with it? That's outside the flyby time and the pics/video of it. Was there another event with the 8th?

On taking a second look that has to be it. The flyby was from 3-28 to 4-2 and it was descending on it's way to passing through the ecliptic on about the 13th. And it had approximate speed for a close match to the video and would explain the sighting over those days. It was pulling away from about the 3rd on.

I would bet that any government doesn't want people to know about these things. That would just scare people who don't want to turn off Dancing with the Stars, or whatever they watch down under.

Surely there are some serious astronomy groups that have seen it, though I haven't heard any specific references so far. There were at least 6 of these very closes passes over the last 3 weeks, when looking at the orbit on max zoom it looks like they hit Earth. I know one crashed into the Atlantic after passing over New York. I saw several reports of that one which was about the size of a VW.

[Fred259]

Oh Joe, what a disappointment I waited up half the night thinking you were the pro and we canny even get the dates right for goodness sake. The data on the JPL website is obviously correct and Sangster video was shot on the 8th April 2011 at 09.12 GMT 19.12 Standard Time / near Melbourne Australia.

It’s Sangstar1 who is the Pro, this rock (according to you) appears in evening sky, he runs and grabs the camera, and records it in full. He provides the DATE! time, and critically its forward direction and we can see its genuine, the dog even barks as if it’s alerting it’s master about this strange object in the skies. He is true to himself, he doesn’t start waffling on because he doesn’t know, but instead prepares a professional presentation and shares it with the world. Sangstar1 is going to be equally disappointed Joe, so much for your “Jet Propulsion Laboratory.” It’s Sangstar,1the dog and a home video camera who have it sorted.

This is what it says in the Newspaper,

After viewing the video Air Services Australia spokesman Matt Wardell said they agreed with the Astronomical Society that it appeared to be a contrail from a high-altitude aircraft highlighted by the set- ting sun.

Aircraft regularly overfly Melbourne at high altitude travelling direct between destinations in New Zealand and airports in Adelaide and Perth,” Mr Wardell said.
“This flight track is consistent with the YouTube vision.”

So the local Astronomical Society has examined it and in consultation with Air Services Australia a government body, and they think it’s an aircraft. They seem to think it’s an aircraft, however if this is the case it must by law have a flight plan and so Air Services Australia would have access to that, and would be able to confirm what it was and where it was going and at what altitude. It would have been nice if they had confirmed that.

I do think it’s an A380, but the only one I can find is Emirates going to Sydney and Auckland. The problem with this is that the times don’t add up, maybe it was running late.

If its an aircraft perhaps the solution here is to put agent Sangstar1 on watch duty to record known movements around this time in the future and agent Spartacus to infiltrate the ops room and find out who is flying A380 over Melbourne in a SW direction, that’s disturbing Sangstar’s dog.

[JoeNashville]

Oh Joe, what a disappointment I waited up half the night thinking you were the pro and we canny even get the dates right for goodness sake. The data on the JPL website is obviously correct and Sangster video was shot on the 8th April 2011 at 09.12 GMT 19.12 Standard Time / near Melbourne Australia.

It’s Sangstar1 who is the Pro, this rock (according to you) appears in evening sky, he runs and grabs the camera, and records it in full. He provides the DATE! time, and critically its forward direction and we can see its genuine, the dog even barks as if it’s alerting it’s master about this strange object in the skies. He is true to himself, he doesn’t start waffling on because he doesn’t know, but instead prepares a professional presentation and shares it with the world. Sangstar1 is going to be equally disappointed Joe, so much for your “Jet Propulsion Laboratory.” It’s Sangstar,1the dog and a home video camera who have it sorted.

This is what it says in the Newspaper,

After viewing the video Air Services Australia spokesman Matt Wardell said they agreed with the Astronomical Society that it appeared to be a contrail from a high-altitude aircraft highlighted by the set- ting sun.

Aircraft regularly overfly Melbourne at high altitude travelling direct between destinations in New Zealand and airports in Adelaide and Perth,” Mr Wardell said.
“This flight track is consistent with the YouTube vision.”

So the local Astronomical Society has examined it and in consultation with Air Services Australia a government body, and they think it’s an aircraft. They seem to think it’s an aircraft, however if this is the case it must by law have a flight plan and so Air Services Australia would have access to that, and would be able to confirm what it was and where it was going and at what altitude. It would have been nice if they had confirmed that.

I do think it’s an A380, but the only one I can find is Emirates going to Sydney and Auckland. The problem with this is that the times don’t add up, maybe it was running late.

If its an aircraft perhaps the solution here is to put agent Sangstar1 on watch duty to record known movements around this time in the future and agent Spartacus to infiltrate the ops room and find out who is flying A380 over Melbourne in a SW direction, that’s disturbing Sangstar’s dog.


Fred you're not even close to having your facts straight. In fact, even a child can follow the thread and SEE the dates POSTED which are clear timeline. So your sounding like a slightly more sophisticated shill than the "case closed" guy, but they really should train you better in shill school. But I understand, there are a lot of boards to manipulate and only so many hours in a day.

Of course there is always the possibility that the average person can't read a thread and follow along and that makes me sad for them and our country.

So for the record:

The original Sangstar video was shot on 3/30 and 31. It was posted to THIS board on 4/1.

The news report cited confirmed all that. You can't even read the piece and sort out the information. How do you expect to sort our anything else?

The Argentine picture was taken on 4/2.

Everything else does match up, like I said in my previous post. I can't help it if you can't follow along.

Sangstar has taken more videos to try and get more information. At least he's using a intelligent approach to try and figure this out, while some people can't even use a calender. Although I would think at this point he would beg, borrow or steal some better equipment to get more definitive video.

The video he took in the 4th looks to be a plane and contrail, but the quality of the video is not good enough.

There is a clear difference as you can hear Sangstar say in the speed of the plane on the 4th which is obvious and much different than the original video.

You can't even analyze the original video and you're trying to find the closest plane and move it to sort of match the original video. Sounds like a classic case of creating evidence to fit the facts as opposed to following the evidence and seeing where it leads. You can choose to believe whatever you want, it's a free country... well sort of.

You can dis JPL if you want, as some do, but at this point I still believe their data, after all it's been getting us around the solar system pretty well so far.

I only posted in this thread because I was looking to connect the many near miss asteroids with video, because that is a seriously under reported story. So I will continue to do that.

[Fred259]

Joe I really can’t be bothered anymore. The video was shot on the 8th of April. He says this in post 24

“I took this video on Friday 8/04/2011 7:12:04 PM. Also check the contrail this object which could be an air force plane?”

Do you have anything from JPL that confirms a rock flew over Melbourne on the 8th April 2011

Answer No.

Conclusion: Case Closed.

Why so: Because No evidence is available from JPL.

The Australian Astronomical Society and Air Services Australia confirm it’s an aircraft, but for some reason you don’t agree. Fine.

Do you think an asteroid of considerable proportion could fly over Australia’s second city without the government being aware of this? They are an advanced society; they have scientists who would be aware of this don’t you think.

If you can dig up anything from JPL that confirms his video of the 08 April then its well worth considering, in the meantime let’s move on.

[Dennis Jonathan]

Let's clarify the subject matter and cease the grandstanding.

The original two videos posted by Teakai were filmed 3/30 & 3/31. Both uploaded to YouTube on 3/31.

Which videos are you talking about Fred?

This is clearly the root issue from the last few posts.

Save the drama, just the facts please.

[Fred259]

Let's clarify the subject matter and cease the grandstanding.

The original two videos posted by Teakai were filmed 3/30 & 3/31. Both uploaded to YouTube on 3/31.

Which videos are you talking about Fred?

This is clearly the root issue from the last few posts.

Save the drama, just the facts please.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKBs8x_yqg8&feature=player_embeddedhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKBs8x_yqg8&feature=player_embedded

[JoeNashville]

Let's clarify the subject matter and cease the grandstanding.

The original two videos posted by Teakai were filmed 3/30 & 3/31. Both uploaded to YouTube on 3/31.

Which videos are you talking about Fred?

This is clearly the root issue from the last few posts.

Save the drama, just the facts please.


Thanks for that I couldn't agree more. There is some interesting stuff here if people would look at it clearly.




Let's clarify the subject matter and cease the grandstanding.

The original two videos posted by Teakai were filmed 3/30 & 3/31. Both uploaded to YouTube on 3/31.

Which videos are you talking about Fred?

This is clearly the root issue from the last few posts.

Save the drama, just the facts please.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKBs8x_yqg8&feature=player_embeddedhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKBs8x_yqg8&feature=player_embedded

That video, as the poster clearly states was taken on 4/4. It looks like a plane and contrail and NO ONE disputes that. It is well outside the dates of discussion here which are 3/30 to 4/2(which is the date of the Argentine picture), so therefore not even relevant. Why would I want to find JPL data for something that is not even an asteroid?

My previous posts about the correlation of data are accurate and to me are a much stronger hypothesis than any presented so far.

[Fred259]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKBs8x_yqg8&feature=player_embeddedhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKBs8x_yqg8&feature=player_embedded[/QUOTE]


That video, as the poster clearly states was taken on 4/4.

Joe, The video you have posted here if you play it at the start clearly says it was recorded on Friday 8 April 2011, so why are you saying it was taken on the 4/4.

If you look on the Calendar the second Friday in April was the 8th. Maybe we are getting mixed up we are using DD/MM/YY or Day / Month / Year.

For example Americans talk about 9/11 being September the 11th, but by international convention most nations put the day, then the month, then year so we would say the 9th of September. I think that’s where perhaps the problem has arisen.



It looks like a plane and contrail and NO ONE disputes that.

So we agree that this is an aircraft.



It is well outside the dates of discussion here which are 3/30 to 4/2(which is the date of the Argentine picture),

So above you talk about 3/30 which is March 30th

He did not film on March 30. No video exists for that date.

All the videos are dated March 31.

You mention another date 4/2 which is April 2nd. This is the Argentinean video. Can we leave this video till later and deal with the Australian video first,but we will come back to this video.

I have copied the videos that Sangstar took and have posted them here on the same page. So I have moved them from page one.

Thursday March 31 Video One.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLe9rD17L08&feature=player_embedded

@1.45 He reports the time and says “ It was the same object as last night this time we will stay with it all time” and he continues filming.

So he is telling us that the same object passed over last night, but he didn’t film it.

He continues filming, but when he cut the video onto you tube Video Two is the same filming and same object as video one.

Thursday March 31 Video Two.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHjw02CX60s&feature=player_embedded#at=54

@0.18 He reports the trails as separating, and we have two objects in the sky.

@3.17 He looks and films at the second object.

Thursday March 31 Video Two With imaging.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNxm-8ms2yo&feature=player_embedded

He asks is it a UFO perhaps?

He points out five white dots at teh back of the object.



My view is that these are A380 aircraft and that in Video one he reports that the same object flew over last night. He didn’t film this however.

In the second video the contrail splits and he films the second part of the contrail towards the end. The only reason we are seeing this is because the sun is shinning and reflecting against the white contrail.

What’s happened is that the aircraft has passed pulling a contrail. The contrail is short because the atmosphere is unstable and the air temperature and the dew point temperature are not the same. Relative humidity is less than 100%.

After the immediate contrail has vanished the gasses still exist in the atmosphere in a gaseous state. The second white or separated orange cloud or ball has been created because in that immediate section of atmosphere the temperature and the dew point temperature are the same and now Relative humidity is 100% causing the contrail to form.

Sometimes you see parts of a contrail a gap of clear air and then another maybe longer contrail then another gap and more contrail. Where the contrail exists relative humidity is 100% and where the contrail doesn’t exist relative humidity is less than 100%. The same has happened in this video. Its a bit like driving along a road in fog, then clear road, then fog again, followed by a clear road. Exactly the same thing is happening in this upper atmosphere.

The use of the word temperature is the same as the dry bulb temperature on a thermometer. The Dew point is the same as the wet bulb temperature. When the temp and the dew point are the same a contrail, cloud, mist or fog will form. If the temp and the dew point are different none of these will form.

In the second video but this time with the imaging shots he talks about five white dots. So could this be a UFO. Sangstar wonders about this. I don’t think so because the aircraft is moving slowly when compared with a UFO. This aircraft is doing less than Mach1.0 around M0.80 I would suggest. A UFO would be doing? I don’t know Bill will know perhaps, probably M9.0 or more.

Therefore I suggest the white dots is the heat contained at the back of the aircraft from the engines plus the Auxiliary power unit. (APU)


The Argentinean Aircraft.

This is the video shot on April 2nd from the ground in Argentina and because it looks the same we think that this could also be the same object perhaps or another. You were going to confirm this with the JPL data.

To me this is a 747 flying south at dawn after a night flight probably from Europe. The reason I think It’s an aircraft is that it has constant altitude, and velocity. I think this may be 100 miles at least distance and so its hard to tell.

I prefer to keep the Australian and Argentinean aircraft separate unless your JPL data says otherwise.

[Tahi]

bahahahaha... take it outside gentleman. You've wrecked the thread.

Mission accomplished?? :argue:

[Dennis Jonathan]

Good summation Fred.

All I need is an official flight schedule to convince me of your argument.

If Joe had data showing activity in the skies that correlate the times, or there were no flights on record, obviously the facts would point in a different direction.

Someone, James Gilliland maybe, made a reference to a website that made available all air traffic (planes, low flying satellites, etc) in order to test for a true aerial anomaly.

Anyone know it?

[Fred259]

Well, Im not sure about these dates. It could be that Joe was mentioning the March 30 date because of the time zone changes. It needs to be considered.

GMT to California is - 9 hrs
GMT to Melbourne is +10hrs

So California to London to Melbourne is a +19 hour ahead

The video was shot at 19.15 Standard Time Melbourne Australia on March 31 2011

So 19.15 in Melbourne -19 hours is 00.15 PST Pasadena California, or midnight in California lets say.

So, it’s possible that if the JPL were using PST and they started tracking this object or recording its whereabouts on the JPL computer say 4 hours earlier this would mean the time in Pasadena would be 20.15 PST March 30 2011 which is perhaps where Joe is correctly getting this date from.

It depends on what time phase the JPL data is held in. Is it PST or GMT, and the time either in PST or GMT the objects position is recorded?

If they have the lat and long that would also be usefull, we could then work out its great circle track given we have Sangstar1 and his positive sighting at 19.15 overhead Melbourne. Also we could calculate its speed which would be even better.

[Fred259]

A couple of A380 have just left Melbourne at 01.30GMT 11.30 Local time headed for Singapore and Sydney, so we should check this around 09.00 GMT in the morning which would be 19.00 Melbourne time and see what’s doing in Bonnie Aus.

http://www.flightradar24.com/

[sangstar1]

I just done another video regarding this object which I like to add in here,

Kind regards,

Sergio.
Sangstar1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qO3Gd2QsmPU&feature=channel_video_title