Alternative Social and Political Organization

[DawgBone]

http://www.clairvaux.org/images/Avalon/Dances.jpg


I watched Dances With Wolves again last night.  Has it really been 21 years?  Costner and McDonnell have aged a bit since then.  Boy, I’m glad that hasn’t happened to me!

What a fabulous movie!  Winner of 7 Academy Awards.  Unbelievably beautiful photography.  Dialogue largely in the Lakota language with English subtitles.  And a dawg with a major role.  (Okay, it was a wolf)

Avatar affected me in the same way, and James Cameron has acknowledged the influence. One critic even called them the same movie!  A fascinating tribal society threatened by western culture.  Beauty and tradition and community destroyed by western greed.

Oh boy …

And of course we are still mining unobtainium in Afghanistan.  We are still destroying the planet the way we destroyed the buffalo.  We are still demonizing other cultures and traditions to justify the killing fields of imperialistic wars.

But you know all that.

What I want to talk about is social organization.  We need a new plan for our species.   Our social organization is based on the pyramid.  It is hierarchical.  A few people at the top control all the rest of us.  Pyramids lead to an elite class.  They lead to exploitation and manipulation.  They lead to wars.

Are pyramidal structures necessary?   Are there alternatives?  Both the Sioux  and the Na’vi had leaders, of course.  Perhaps the difference is in the size of the community.  The Sioux leaders and the Na’vi leaders personally knew their people.  When societies become huge, when leaders don’t personally know the people they govern, everything goes bad.

Take Republicans, for example.  Could the pathological indifference demonstrated by many Republicans exist in small societies?  Could a leader really vote to eliminate social services when he personally knew the widow next door trying to raise her children?

You’re right.  Republicans probably could and probably would …

Or maybe the problem is with professional politicians.  Anyone who is attracted to the power of government is arguably suspect.  If a person really wants to be a senator, that should probably disqualify him.  The Athenians chose their leaders by lottery.  I have often argued that if we chose 500 Americans at random, they would do a better job than our current government.  Probably a MUCH better job.

So, do I think that we can somehow reorganize the American Republic?  Not a chance!  The American Republic is largely an illusion at this point.  Our government is in fact a soft form of corporate fascism.  The United States will continue to decay and eventually be absorbed by one-world government.

Oh boy …

But I must say that peaceful, small, even tribal societies do appeal to me, and it could be argued that the tribe is our natural form of social organization.

Avalon is a digital tribe.  That is part of the appeal.

If you haven’t watched Dances With Wolves or Avatar lately, head on over to NetFlix and remind yourself of the way we should be living.  If anyone wants to start an alternative society, let me know.

[Chicodoodoo]

Hierarchy is the critical factor in the demise of our society. It allows sociopaths to flourish in positions of control and power, which is exactly why "anyone who is attracted to the power of government is arguably suspect."

The structure of the Native American tribe was basically non-hierarchical. It was a "flat" model with very little separation between the tribal leaders and the people. The pursuit of that kind of structure is one of the driving forces behind the United People movement here on Avalon.

Avalon is indeed a digital tribe. Humanity is a biological tribe that has been divided by the deliberate design of the PTB. We must restructure society in a non-hierarchical way that prevents psychological deviants from dominating our leadership.

To reclaim our dignity and power, we need to reunite and organize. If we don't, the sociopaths will sweep us from the face of the earth just as they manipulated us into doing to the indigenous peoples of North and South America. Only this time they will do it with economic collapse, pandemics, environmental disasters, radioactive poisons, and by turning us against each other. Are we going to stand by idly and let them do it?

[DawgBone]

To reclaim our dignity and power, we need to reunite and organize. If we don't, the sociopaths will sweep us from the face of the earth just as they manipulated us into doing to the indigenous peoples of North and South America. Only this time they will do it with economic collapse, pandemics, environmental disasters, radioactive poisons, and by turning us against each other. Are we going to stand by idly and let them do it?

I agree completely, and no, we will not stand idly by.

[ulli]

I spent 19 years of my life in such an experiment. I was 100% convinced that the system was corruption proof.
The organization was the Baha'i Faith.
People who came in expecting a religion
were often disappointed as they found it to be a political movement. In fact the administration was like an alternative society that had a spiritual basis.

What made it so attractive to me initially was that clergy was prohibited.
The "leaders" were members of the community, elected by the community once every year.
Any form of campaigning was prohibited.
Anyone over 21 years of age could vote, or was eligible to be elected.
During election time each person would write nine names on a ballot form, in absolute secrecy.
It was forbidden to discuss who one wanted to vote for.
After the ballots were counted the nine names with the most votes were announced by the previous assembly chairman.
If there was a tie for the ninth place then there would be a revote...new ballots had to be filled in by all voters for one of those two people.
Unless one of the two represented a minority in which case they automatically got the place, without further voting.
To me this was the most amazing rule of all.
Anyway, this process was done at municipal levels.

For the national level things were a litle bit more complicated as local communities first had to elect delegates who would then cast votes at the national convention...also once every year.

The international body, situated in Israel, would be elected every five years...by all nine members of each national assembly.
The problem I had with this was that ONLY MEN could be elected for this body...something that wasn't very clear when studying the original holy texts...
Since the movement was of Iranian origin I felt that there was a distinct possibility that the prophet's writings could have been messed with...

Anyway, those who couldn't afford to travel to the international convention would send their ballots by mail or messenger.
The good thing about it was the 'revolutionary" aspect. In other words, regular elections gave the community the chance to kick out anyone they didn't like.
On the other hand, the very strict law against backbiting made it nearly impossible for any negative news to leak out about the psychopaths in the group, and even though they didn't receive salaries, the need for status and image was enough for people to do subtle forms of campaigning.
Then the grassroots masses who were mostly conservative types, in their laziness gradually permitted a leadership to emerge who could never be challenged (infallible leaders) and in my opinion over the decades made so many strange decisions and allowed systematic shunning of intellectuals and scholars within the movement that I lost all hope of it ever becoming a feasable reality.
I could go on and on....It was the disappointment of my life...to have sacrificed all those years.
But perhaps another generation will come in and perform a miracle one day...

[slvrfx]

Good morning ulli...what cha think of that CME someone posted today, Apr. 4th.

Thank you for your extensive explanation of this Bahai organization/faith...reminded me a little of Avalon awhile back.

[ulli]

Good morning ulli...what cha think of that CME someone posted today, Apr. 4th.

Thank you for your extensive explanation of this Bahai organization/faith...reminded me a little of Avalon awhile back.

that's right...someone said the biggest ever...
I'm not enough of a scientist to evaluate these events...
as long as it doesn't scorch me, is all I can say.

[DawgBone]

Thank you ulli! Absolutely fascinating.

It would be very important, I think, to carefully study alternative societies which failed as well as alternative societies that have been successful.

[ulli]

More have failed than not.
I have investigated many things throughout my life. At one point I went to check out Christian Science. Then one day I was telling my Gurdjieff guru about it. The only thing he asked was "is it a growing church?"
That question became my measuring stick. I was with the Baha'is until I realized their numbers were dwindling...someone called it the religion of the revolving door. In and out.

The main thing is the written materials that make up the original vision.
And those are mostly inspiring, wherever you look.

The Internet can be used for organizing...that's my take on the future.
No more need for meetings...just skype conference calls and polls....

[Lord Sidious]

http://www.clairvaux.org/images/Avalon/Dances.jpg


I watched Dances With Wolves again last night.  Has it really been 21 years?  Costner and McDonnell have aged a bit since then.  Boy, I’m glad that hasn’t happened to me!

What a fabulous movie!  Winner of 7 Academy Awards.  Unbelievably beautiful photography.  Dialogue largely in the Lakota language with English subtitles.  And a dawg with a major role.  (Okay, it was a wolf)

Avatar affected me in the same way, and James Cameron has acknowledged the influence. One critic even called them the same movie!  A fascinating tribal society threatened by western culture.  Beauty and tradition and community destroyed by western greed.

Oh boy …

And of course we are still mining unobtainium in Afghanistan.  We are still destroying the planet the way we destroyed the buffalo.  We are still demonizing other cultures and traditions to justify the killing fields of imperialistic wars.

But you know all that.

What I want to talk about is social organization.  We need a new plan for our species.   Our social organization is based on the pyramid.  It is hierarchical.  A few people at the top control all the rest of us.  Pyramids lead to an elite class.  They lead to exploitation and manipulation.  They lead to wars.

Are pyramidal structures necessary?   Are there alternatives?  Both the Sioux  and the Na’vi had leaders, of course.  Perhaps the difference is in the size of the community.  The Sioux leaders and the Na’vi leaders personally knew their people.  When societies become huge, when leaders don’t personally know the people they govern, everything goes bad.

Take Republicans, for example.  Could the pathological indifference demonstrated by many Republicans exist in small societies?  Could a leader really vote to eliminate social services when he personally knew the widow next door trying to raise her children?

You’re right.  Republicans probably could and probably would …

Or maybe the problem is with professional politicians.  Anyone who is attracted to the power of government is arguably suspect.  If a person really wants to be a senator, that should probably disqualify him.  The Athenians chose their leaders by lottery.  I have often argued that if we chose 500 Americans at random, they would do a better job than our current government.  Probably a MUCH better job.

So, do I think that we can somehow reorganize the American Republic?  Not a chance!  The American Republic is largely an illusion at this point.  Our government is in fact a soft form of corporate fascism.  The United States will continue to decay and eventually be absorbed by one-world government.

Oh boy …

But I must say that peaceful, small, even tribal societies do appeal to me, and it could be argued that the tribe is our natural form of social organization.

Avalon is a digital tribe.  That is part of the appeal.

If you haven’t watched Dances With Wolves or Avatar lately, head on over to NetFlix and remind yourself of the way we should be living.  If anyone wants to start an alternative society, let me know.

Interesting.
''We'' are not destroying a thing, those who exploit the misery and suffering of all mankind are.
And I find that the republican/democrat deal to be old hat.
They control not a jot, they are told what they can and can't do.
I would say that there isn't much soft about the corporation, THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, it is one of the most damaging organisations to ever exist in our recorded history.
I agree on the tribe concept. The thing with a tribe is that you don't necessarily have to be all racially related to be members.

And Ulli, I was tempted and almost did say that I was sorry to hear of your disillusionment.
But then, I realised, I was not and am not sorry.
For if you were still with them, you would not be with us on the road.
Congratulations at your experience.

[DawgBone]

Interesting.
''We'' are not destroying a thing, those who exploit the misery and suffering of all mankind are.
And I find that the republican/democrat deal to be old hat.
They control not a jot, they are told what they can and can't do.
I would say that there isn't much soft about the corporation, THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, it is one of the most damaging organisations to ever exist in our recorded history.
I agree on the tribe concept. The thing with a tribe is that you don't necessarily have to be all racially related to be members.

Yes, Sid, I'm afraid that I agree with your somewhat darker assessment. I still tend to cling to the idea that politics can make a difference. The two major parties in the US are really just playing "good cop" and "bad cop", giving us the illusion that we the people still have some control. It's late in the game to be thinking in terms of politics.

[ulli]

And Ulli, I was tempted and almost did say that I was sorry to hear of your disillusionment.
But then, I realised, I was not and am not sorry.
For if you were still with them, you would not be with us on the road.
Congratulations at your experience.

I really appreciate you saying that. And to be "on the road" is my life....even though I'm pinned down by my laptop...
it feels like there is a breeze blowing and I can hear the horses all around me...