Alternative banking systems-THINK TANK

[thunder24]

If We the People are going to make a change in our own lives, it must begin. The proposal of alternative ways of banking and finance must come to the front of our discussion. With one percent of the United States owning I think its 98% of the nations wealth it is time for a reversal.


State Banks and People's Banks are all I have heard of as alternatives, other than towns haveing local currencys.
The State Bank of North Dakota http://www.banknd.nd.gov/
This thread is intended to be a think tank on New Ways of banking and finance.

I know there are people with plenty of experience within the hierarchy of banking that are on this forum. You may only be watching but you are there and now is the time to step up to the plate and help us.

People's Bank thread and The Gathering of the 33 bloodlines thread are two that have had alternatives discussed or brought up. I have not seen any others, so do not take offense if i didn't mention "your" idea or thread. I love to Joke and laugh, but within this line of thinking is a very seriousness that needs to be demonstrated. Need I say more?!


Ideas :- To get people to switch to these banks offer a high rate of interest to be earned on savings accounts.
- All companies that wanna bring there accounts to the bank must sign contracts saying they will only bank with the so called bank and only take loans there.
- Allow people to invest in these companies through the banks, if you like what a company is doing for your hometown or state, invest your money in the bank and this will give the company larger lines of credit, to higher your neighbor, paint your house, fix your side walks. You've invested your money in something that is helping others around you. Win win. It takes a village to raise a child.
- These banks must be trustworthy to not launder money for whatever is deemed illegal in the NEW DAY.


The State Bank of North Dakota is the only state bank I am aware of here in the U.S.
...from http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?10845-Avalon-The-gathering-of-33-Bloodlines.../page11

State Banks can offer 11% interest on Deposits, money will flow in allowing the State Banks to lend to the people at 3-4% using the same guidelines as private banks.

The Discount window information is online, if you want to see why the banks recovered and paid back TARP... Remember for each dollar they received they lent 50, that is why Bankers made over $150 Billion in Bonuses since the banking crisis.



With that said the "speaker yeilds the microphone, and the floor is open"... begin:bump:

[JoeNashville]

Each State having it's own bank would be a great start. Having consumers cancel all their business with national and international banks would be another. If people moved all their accounts to local and state banks and credit unions that would be a huge step. Also create a transparency of ownership policy so people would know exactly who the owners were and would be notified of any potential ownership changes.

Better hurry though tptb are moving quickly to prevent the possibility of any alternatives including making bartering illegal.

[thunder24]

Thanks Joe for contributiing

True True, ownership must be transparent, I'm thinking somehow (not much experience in banking) that it would be owned by the collective that make depostits,ie. WE THE PEOPLE. If We could set it up to be an obvious benefit to the ones depositing money, then I think the PEOPLE would back it. Say you or someone you know is sick, You could invest in the farmers growing whatever it is that will go in the medicine to help the sick, thus creating a downline of jobs for and from the farmer; truck driver, compounder, driver, Representative of company, doctor etc.
Keeping it on a local scale just as an example of what I'm talking about. Your helping your friend that is sick by investing in those that contribute to make the person better. All the way down the line, so your creating jobs, by keep money circulating, and investing in those companies that provide those jobs, making your personal economy thrive.
How could you lose?
Peace:spy:


Originally Posted by Rocky_Shorz
Imagine a woman with idea and knowledge to clean up Japan's nuclear mess.

She would go to the state bank and offer to put 100 people to work cleaning up the disaster. 100 Million shares are created... the news stories come in showing the amazing work they have accomplished, people instead of giving a donation would buy as many shares as their hearts desired... Many would never sell these shares because it would remind them of a little good they have done for the world.

at the end, they company would be closed, shares paid to investors of the money left over after costs, each employee given 10% to retire on or move onto the next venture...

by getting unemployed back to work, it relieves the drain from unemployment and welfare, but more importantly, primes the pump on spending that turn the big wheels...

borrowed this one also from the Gathering of the 33 bloodlines thread. I think it speaks volumes.

[thunder24]

A friend of man came up with this idea last year:
Security Transfer tax of 3%
1% Shores up social security, so it will be there for those of us who put in.
1% goes to the national debt
1% F.D.I.C for wall street. so when they pull the plug like in 08 people don't lose their butts, and companies can't borrow from taxpayers, they only have what's in there piggy bank to shore up all the investments.

Sunset the tax after I think it was 7-10 years, and vote on wether we as a nation need to keep this in place.

The numbers could be tweaked to fit what issue are collectively agreed upon.
If the big banks don't wanna play ball, no problem we will have our State Banks in place and no borrowing from the People anymore.
peace

I couldn't resist posting this one

Originally posted by Rocky_Shorz
think of a state that wants to get the unemployed back to work, Joe Plumber, says I need another crew with equipment.

He doesn't need a new truck, found one for $5000 that would work perfect and the unemployed contractors have all the tools they need.

The bank gives him a loan for the vehicle, and wages to the employees paid directly into their state bank accounts...

Another Company is doing a Major expansion and needs plumbing work, the Bank seeing Joe's company is perfect gives the loan for the project, and hands the work over to Joe...

The unemployed now are making better money and at this level, people spend what they have to survive, so put the money right back into the state economy.

With tent cities all over the U.S. this could put people back on their feet and dignity within themselves. Remember we own the State Banks...the people.

[thunder24]

ARTICLE 1, SECTION 8 OF THE CONSTITUTION STATES THAT CONGRESS SHALL HAVE THE POWER TO COIN (CREATE) MONEY AND REGULATE THE VALUE THEREOF.

IN 1935 THE SUPREME COURT RULED THAT CONGRESS CANNOT CONSTITUTIONALLY DELEGATE ITS POWER TO ANOTHER GROUP. (Reference 22, P. 168)

Rothschild, a London Banker, wrote a letter saying "It (Central Bank ) gives the National Bank almost complete control of national finance. The few who understand the system will either be so interested in its profits, or so dependent on its favours, that there will be no opposition from that class... The great body of the people, mentally incapable of comprehending, will bear its burden without complaint, and perhaps without even suspecting that the system is inimical (contrary) to their interests." [The bankers created the legislation for the FED]

In 1913, before the Senate Banking and Currency Committee, Mr. Alexander stated: "But the whole scheme of a Federal Reserve Bank with its commercial-paper basis is an impractical, cumbersome machinery, is simply a cover, to find a way to secure the privilege of issuing money and to evade payment of as much tax upon circulation as possible, and then control the issue and maintain, instead of reduce, interest rates. It is a system that, if inaugurated, will prove to the advantage of the few and the detriment of the people of the United States. It will mean continued shortage of actual money and further extension of credits; for when there is a lack of real money people have to borrow credit to their cost."
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/fed_reserve.htm

So once WE abolish the Federal Reserve, who will control the nation's money supply?
peace

[Rocky_Shorz]

going on right now...


SEC weighs new rules for private companies’ stock

The Associated Press

Friday, April 8, 2011 | 8:08 a.m.

The Securities and Exchange Commission is considering whether to ease rules on private companies that issue shares.

Chairman Mary Schapiro said in a speech Friday that she has asked the SEC staff to review the rules. The changes might make it easier for companies such as Facebook and Twitter to raise money by issuing stock, without facing costly reporting requirements imposed on public companies.

Private companies can keep their finances secret if they have fewer than 500 shareholders. If they have more, they must provide details on their companies and finances.

The new rules might replace the process by which technology companies and other startups offer shares publicly through initial public offerings. Companies that have IPOs must disclose financial details about themselves.

Earlier this week, Schapiro sent a letter to Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif., notifying him of the review. Issa, who is chairman of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, had previously raised concerns with Schapiro that the current rules discourage investment and limit economic growth

The current rules are designed to stop insiders from trading shares using information that is not available publicly. In her letter to Issa, Schapiro said the agency must walk a fine line, protecting investors from insider trading while making it easier for private companies to raise money.

Companies "should not be overburdened by unnecessary or superfluous regulations," Schapiro said in the letter. "At the same time, all offerings must, of course, provide the necessary information and protections to give investors the confidence they need to invest in our markets," she said.

full story (http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2011/apr/08/us-sec-private-companies/)

[s3nru]

bitcoin.org is an interesting site to consider.

to be honest I'm more interested in evolving past money. it's a thing we don't really need as humans.

[thunder24]

thanks rocky_shorz and s3nru for your contributions.

s3nru, my ideal would be to get past money also, yet money right now SEEMS to control the masses lives.
That being said, the ideas above are ways to get past who controls the money at the moment and put the power back into our hands. Its not the money thats bad or good, its the power, control and use that determines the flow of the world.

Do you think 6.5 billion people will get past money all at once, or even 3.26 billion? I dont' think so, therefore this think tank is about a next step transitional implementation that has to happen.:frog:
peace

[thunder24]

The SEC knows the problems that they and others have caused. It is great news to see that they are going to help stimulate economic investment and incourage economic growth to use a twist of their words.

These are the types of actions the "ruleing" bodies need to take to enable the U.S. to gain back some of the field they lost. Encourage investors to bring jobs back and start new ones, and we can get a better footing. If the rulers still wanna play globalist, then maybe we can export some products we now buy. State Banks would give the consumer even more in their wallet to buy what they need. Hopefully the bad working for good in this global "crisis" is to show Americans how their opulance is a stinch, and redirect the thoughts onto a higher plain.

peace

[Artemis]

This bank we have had over 40 years here in sweden.... so its properly tested out and its working..

http://jak.se/international/international

[buckminster fuller]

I personally wish that we get out of the money paradigm. We can have a resources based economy, or some other system yet to be invented; but really, as I see it, there is no possible corruption without money. It is the core element that renders us controllable.

peace

[thunder24]

bitcoin.org is an interesting site to consider.

to be honest I'm more interested in evolving past money. it's a thing we don't really need as humans.
Doesn't this open you up to hackers. Seems theres always a way to get around electronic security.

I would like to get past money too, as stated above.

Even eggs and meat can be taxed without money, you want to trade at my market, give me one dozen eggs and ten pounds of meat for the pleasure. Its the mind frame not the object that we must get past.
peace

[Mad Hatter]

Bingo
Its the mind frame not the object that we must get past.

Money is merely a tool and as such we have allowed the incorrect use of that tool for a very long time. The fix is simple... remove the interest mechanism.

Just imagine the scam that is the finacial sector actually having to go out and get real jobs making real things for real people, surely we'd be wealthier all round?

[thunder24]

Bingo
Its the mind frame not the object that we must get past.

Money is merely a tool and as such we have allowed the incorrect use of that tool for a very long time. The fix is simple... remove the interest mechanism.

Just imagine the scam that is the finacial sector actually having to go out and get real jobs making real things for real people, surely we'd be wealthier all round?

Would we be wealthier? Imagine the education that would have to be given to these people to learn to work with their hands. Education can make or break a nation. But given that they could do the work, I whole heartedly agree that we would be wealthier all around.

[Rocky_Shorz]

Check out todays news following Soro's Bretton Woods meeting...


Washington (CNN) -- You might think the big banks would be too embarrassed to ask Congress for more special favors.

You think wrong.

The big banks are pressing Congress for a favor that will cost the average American household $230 a year. The bankers argue that the favor is needed to support small community banks. But since the lion's share of the favor will be collected by just four banks, it might be cheaper to subsidize community banks with a check direct from the Treasury...

story link (http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/04/11/frum.bank.debit.fees/index.html?hpt=Sbin)

[thunder24]

obviously we are being listened too. I am actually surprised, Cnn would write that about treasurey and community banks. But its great to see that the effort put in by a few is being watched, considered, and yes The Gathering is Taking back the power, through what?......................The written WORD!
PEACE


That is why we have the need for these forums, and postitive ideas to fix the system. See people we are being heard...PLEASE SHARE MORE FOLKS WE NEED YOU
so we can quicken the pace we are on, and get our power in money back under control.

[Rocky_Shorz]

it gets even better...

Goldman Sachs told everyone to dump oil... went from 113 - 106 in 2 days... expected not to slow until the 70-80 range...

if oil was allowed to suck the economy dry just like in 2008, the banks would collapse and this time we are ready to stand around and clap...

[thunder24]

it gets even better...

Goldman Sachs told everyone to dump oil... went from 113 - 106 in 2 days... expected not to slow until the 70-80 range...

if oil was allowed to suck the economy dry just like in 2008, the banks would collapse and this time we are ready to stand around and clap...


This is exactly the reason why the infastructre and system needs to be all laid out and ready to go for new banks and new/old fuel. With oil being the past, free and clean energy needs to come to the fore NOW. Phase out the old way because it will take time for rural areas to buy new vehicles, phase out the old way of banking and the transitional time can be alot smother for ALL of us. Leaders, Bankers, Oil Men, Controling corporations, The NEW DAY requires your participation in the smooth transition. If you can't do it, step aside and allow others to implement the New way in the New day. We thankyou for your participation!
Peace

[Rocky_Shorz]

I actually feel it is already in process, they know they messed up, and from what I am understanding glad we came up with an alternative to wiping out 90% of the world...

bbiab...

[thunder24]

In two rural counties around me there are over 350 homeless citizens as of january, the majority of them are elderly, and a great deal of them have mental issues. I want to see the banks that are in place now set up funds for these folks to get houseing. If you can't do it, I'm sure that the new banks will be glad to help those souls.

Republicans, I'm talking to boehner and cantor. If you think raising taxes on the rich is wrong, you are living in a drunking stupor or fairy tale land. Change your minds now, or you will not be back in your office next election. For the billionaires and millionaires that don't want the hikes, You are selfish, delusioned, and going to have to make a difference. Why do you think we should be your slaves in this new day? If there are any reading this and part of this the forum, that disagree with MY statements, please post so we can discourse this subject and let Avalon know why you believe the way you do.

Putting the burden on the backs of the poor and elderly is bullocks! If you think these ideas are beneath you consider this, we live in an inverted world.
peace

[TigaHawk]

I honestly dont believe you can make a system honest, and fair when using Money.

Because money has no real value. In essense, its a piece of paper. At current it makes no sense that someone can go to work on a farm - work their asses off all day - so at the end of it they're tired, muscels sore, etc etc, and only get paid a small ammount of money for doing all of this. Yet someone in an office can just sit there all day and get paid tenfold, if not more than the person that spent all day working physically.

There are too many... "Useless" jobs - that dont logically have a place but are there anyway because it's "process" or standard or the such.


To fix the banks - the people that distibute the money at their whim (Employers) need to be straightend out and everything changed to a logical order - based on how much work you do - and the difficulty of it = you're "reward or payment"


The guy working the field should have been paid what the manager was paid. Beacuse of all the physical work he put in - and the fact if this work was not done - it would effect alot of people. One big farm feeds.... how many people?

The manager - who any idiot with half a brain and a good sense of logic can tell people what to do. Its realy not that hard. And definately does not justify the insane ammounts of money this person currently gets for literaly opening their mouthes once and a while? Sorry to all people on this forum who works as a manger - i got pulled into a big manager meeting - and it was all tiptoeing around eachother, being realy polite when realy everyone knew what we realy thought of eachother. IT was patheticly sad. And it revealed to me another reason why stuff never gets done. tiptoetiptoetiptoe around the problem being polite as you can and if we ignore it it'll go away - right!?!? Sorry - back on topic now!

But main point! - It's not just the banks that need to change the system - its the employers. I wonder if the fact that we have so many unemplloyed people is because they hate / refuze to play the coroporate game of kissass that one normaly has to endure in the workplace. It saddends me sometimes knowing im working a lie. What if these people just cannot (like it will just not click in their heads) how the coporate game works and how they need to play it to stay in it. Maybe they do know how it works and are that disgusted they do not wish to be a part of it at all?


Whole! System! Banks and Employers! Need an overhaul!

It will never happen! Managers love getting paid for nothing. And there's enough of them to put up one hell of a resistance to any sort of proposed change to their money system.

[Mike Gorman]

bitcoin.org is an interesting site to consider.

to be honest I'm more interested in evolving past money. it's a thing we don't really need as humans.
This is the point folks, where has Money gotten us? We need to completely and utterly re-think the equation and do away with currency-based economies
altogether. Money is really only an abstraction of energy, work and production. We can start from this reality and move towards a
world in which we can exchange our energy directly-this may be too early for this.
c

[Rocky_Shorz]

Well, Gordon Brown stepped up at Bretton Woods with an apology and a fix to the whole world banking system...


Addressing the Institute for New Economic Thinking in Bretton Woods, New Hampshire, Mr Brown he had come under "relentless pressure" from the City not to over-regulate.

"We know in retrospect what we missed. We set up the Financial Services Authority (FSA) believing that the problem would come from the failure of an individual institution," he said.

"So we created a monitoring system which was looking at individual institutions. That was the big mistake.

"We didn't understand how risk was spread across the system, we didn't understand the entanglements of different institutions with the other and we didn't understand even though we talked about it just how global things were, including a shadow banking system as well as a banking system.

"That was our mistake, but I'm afraid it was a mistake made by just about everybody who was in the regulatory business."
'Incomplete understanding'

Mr Brown said the banking meltdown had forced a rethink of financial regulation "in its entirety".

"I have got to accept my responsibility and I do, and I have been very open about saying we made mistakes on that," he said.

"But in a world where the understanding of what global meant was incomplete, I think many writers as well as many regulators made exactly the same mistake."

The FSA, which Mr Brown established on his first day as chancellor in 1997, was widely criticised for its part in the banking collapse.

Mr Osborne has announced plans to break up the FSA and hand more regulatory power to the Bank of England.

EXCUSE ME?

tell me I didn't read that correctly...

overlords of the Federal Reserve system are being handed more power?

story link (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-13032013)

[thunder24]

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result!
This will not do Mr. Osborne.
Mr. Soros, we are coming with legitamite fixes to the problem WE didn't create but must endure.
Members of Bretton Woods II, what has the bank of England provided as a fix to the financial problem, that is different from whats been done before.
Invest YOUR MONEY NOW in to programs that will lift up the people of the world, not by twisting your heel on our throats. More power in the hands of the Big Banks now in place is not the answer, but thanking you for playing,

TRY AGAIN
PEACE

[king anthony]

If We the People are going to make a change in our own lives, it must begin…

State Banks and People's Banks are all I have heard of as alternatives, other than towns haveing local currencys.

This thread is intended to be a think tank on New Ways of banking and finance.

I know there are people with plenty of experience within the hierarchy of banking that are on this forum. You may only be watching but you are there and now is the time to step up to the plate and help us.

Know and understand what the original concept of a “bank” was and should be; history reveals this. Currency is not needed for a successful civilization; “ancient” peoples and civilizations have been so. However, if wished, then it should be backed by “real”. I say, how can one change that which does not belong to them!?

Yes, there are those who “…with plenty of experience within the hierarchy…” and who have “…time to step up to the plate and help…” – however, one cannot “play ball” with those who do not “see or hear” the game - "playing ball alone".

There is more to individual sovereignty then what appears on its face – for how can one be free in “spirit” when one cannot be free in “mind and body”. How can one be free in “mind and body” when they do not know the path!?

[thunder24]

One can not change that which does not belong to them but through thoughts or force. Bad working for good, if you see thoughts manipulating others, in the sense of "good", that our rock is unbalanced to the so called "bad",then whats the balance. As for me I see it as i own nothing I possess everything.

I guess my question would be how can one EVER think they are free in mind and body and spirit? It seems that if all are connected, then all are connected. So if one doesn't get it, I don't get it.

I know your words have meaning at different levels of understanding. I appreciate that King Anthony! I do SEE your point, from a level. thanks
peace

I donot see how people as a mass will just poof get over the concept of money. Therefore this is a transition I'm looking at.

[thunder24]

Are you serious? Really? More lies about the agreement in congress, more lies about the budget?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_exclusive/20110414/pl_yblog_exclusive/why-38-5b-budget-deal-will-only-cut-spending-by-352m


A Congressional Budget Office analysis of the fiscal 2011 spending deal that Congress passed Thursday concludes that it would cut spending this year by less than one-one hundredth of what both Republicans or Democrats have claimed.

A comparison prepared by the CBO shows that the omnibus spending bill, advertised as containing some $38.5 billion in cuts, will only reduce federal outlays by $352 million below 2010 spending rates. The nonpartisan budget agency also projects that total outlays are actually some $3.3 billion more than in 2010, if emergency spending is included in the total..........
"It is kind of crazy to have come to the brink of shutting down the government over a $350 million difference," said Scott Lilly, a former staff director at the Appropriations Committee under Chairman David Obey, D-Wis.




Is this the change we can believe in? Numbers on a screen just to be manipulated will not suffice. 350 million dollar difference from last year, you guys in D.C. are a peice of work. You are not helping one bit.
TRY AGAIN,
PEACE

[thunder24]

common law versus U.C.C.

We need to know and need you to participate in the discussion on how to regain our soverign rights. Any ideas out there on how to keep these State Banks from being taken over within their hierarchy by the moles that want to keep us all reigned in under these commericial codes(ie. maritime law)?

peace

[Mad Hatter]

RE UCC vs Common law

UCC is based on contract law. Difficut I know, but fiat money / credit is not the only option for being paid. A bond process may suffice (ultimately my word is my bond;)) but this requires knowledge therof and a minimum critical mass for it to take off. Commercial liens is another potential avenue but methinks the devious would still take advantage...

The argument goes that under a contract there must be an equal exchange of value which is where the banks supplying loans out of thin air based on computer keystrokes fly pretty close to the wind so stopping the fractional reserve lending fiasco would be a step in the right direction.

Of course you Americans could always try and get your government to go back to printing it's own money as allowed under your constitution a la greenbacks but unfortunately you have a habit of shooting those presidents that try... :eek:

[Lord Sidious]

RE UCC vs Common law

UCC is based on contract law. Difficut I know, but fiat money / credit is not the only option for being paid. A bond process may suffice (ultimately my word is my bond;)) but this requires knowledge therof and a minimum critical mass for it to take off. Commercial liens is another potential avenue but methinks the devious would still take advantage...

The argument goes that under a contract there must be an equal exchange of value which is where the banks supplying loans out of thin air based on computer keystrokes fly pretty close to the wind so stopping the fractional reserve lending fiasco would be a step in the right direction.

Of course you Americans could always try and get your government to go back to printing it's own money as allowed under your constitution a la greenbacks but unfortunately you have a habit of shooting those presidents that try... :eek:

The contract law term is mutual consideration, but that doesn't have to be of equal value.

[loveandgratitude]

TAKE A LOOK AT THE NORTH DAKOTA BANKING SYSTEM

Our last word in business takes us all the way back to 1919.

North Dakota's grain markets were in a terrible mess. Angry farmers wanted the state to help control the markets and provide low cost farm loans. Hence, the Bank of North Dakota was founded.

The manager is getting tons, he says, of inquiries from other states wondering if this relic of populism might help steer their economies to a more sound financial future.

The Bank of North Dakota is the only state-owned bank in America—what Republicans might call an idiosyncratic bastion of socialism. It also earned a record profit last year even as its private-sector corollaries lost billions. To be sure, it owes some of its unusual success to North Dakota’s well-insulated economy, which is heavy on agricultural staples and light on housing speculation. But that hasn’t stopped out-of-state politicos from beating a path to chilly Bismarck in search of advice. Could opening state-owned banks across America get us out of the financial crisis? It certainly might help, says Ellen Brown, author of the book, Web of Debt, who writes that the Bank of North Dakota, with its $4 billion under management, has avoided the credit freeze by “creating its own credit, leading the nation in establishing state economic sovereignty.” Mother Jones spoke with the Bank of North Dakota’s president, Eric Hardmeyer.

Mother Jones: How was the bank formed?

Eric Hardmeyer: It was created 90 years ago, in 1919, as a populist movement swept the northern plains. Basically it was a very angry movement by a large group of the agrarian sector that was upset by decisions that were being made in the eastern markets, the money markets maybe in Minneapolis, New York, deciding who got credit and how to market their goods. So it swept the northern plains. In North Dakota the movement was called the Nonpartisan League, and they actually took control of the legislature and created what was called an industrial program, which created both the Bank of North Dakota as a financing arm and a state-owned mill and elevator to market and buy the grain from the farmer. And we’re both in existence today doing exactly what we were created for 90 years ago. Only we’ve morphed a little bit and found other niches and ways to promote the state of North Dakota.

MJ: What makes your bank unique today?

EH: Our funding model, our deposit model is really what is unique as the engine that drives that bank. And that is we are the depository for all state tax collections and fees. And so we have a captive deposit base, we pay a competitive rate to the state treasurer. And I would bet that that would be one of the most difficult things to wrestle away from the private sector—those opportunities to bid on public funds. But that’s only one portion of it. We take those funds and then, really what separates us is that we plow those deposits back into the state of North Dakota in the form of loans. We invest back into the state in economic development type of activities. We grow our state through that mechanism.

MJ: Clearly other banks also invest their deposits. Is the difference that you are investing a larger portion of that money into the state’s own economy?

EH: Yeah, absolutely. But we have specifically designed programs to spur certain elements of the economy. Whether it’s agriculture or economic development programs that are deemed necessary in the state or energy, which now seems to be a huge play in the state. And education—we do a lot of student loan financing. So that’s our model. We have a specific mission that was given to us when we were created 90 years ago and it guides us throughout our history.

MJ: Are there areas that you invest in that other banks avoid?

EH: We made the first federally-insured student loan in the country back in 1967. So that’s been a big part of what we do. It’s become almost a mission-critical thing. I don’t know if you have been following the student loan industry lately, but it’s been very, very interesting as many have decided to leave. We will not though.

MJ: So you are able to invest in certain areas because they provide a public good.

EH: Yeah, or a direction, whether it’s energy or primary sector type of businesses. We have specific loan programs that are designed at very low interest rates to encourage activity along certain lines. Here’s another thing: We’re gearing up for a significant flood in one of the communities here in North Dakota called Fargo. We’ve experienced one of those in another community about 12 years ago which prior to Katrina was the largest single evacuation of any community in the United States. And so the Bank of North Dakota, once the flood had receded and there were business needs, we developed a disaster loan program to assist businesses. So we can move quite quickly to aid with different types of scenarios. Whether it’s encouraging different economies to grow or dealing with a disaster.

MJ: What do private banks think of you?

EH: The interesting thing about the bank is we understand that we walk a fine line between competing and partnering with the private sector. We were designed and set up to partner with them and not compete with them. So most of the lending that we do is participatory in nature. It’s originated by a local bank and we come in and participate in the loan and use some of our programs to share risk, buy down the interest rate. We even provide guarantees similar to SBA to encourage certain activity for entrepreneurial startups. Aside from that, we also act as a bankers’ bank or a wholesale bank. So we provide services to banks, whether it’s check clearing, liquidity, or bond accounting safekeeping. There’s probably 20 other bankers' banks across the country. So we act in that capacity as kind of a little mini-fed actually. And so we service 104 banks and provide liquidity to them and clear their checks and also we buy loans from them when they have a need to overline, whether it’s beyond their legal lending limit or they just want to share risk, we’ll do that. We’re a secondary market for residential loans, so we have a portfolio of $500 to $600 million of residential loans that we buy.
MJ: So what’s the advantage of a publicly owned “bankers’ bank” instead of a privately owned one?
EH: Our model is we use our deposit base to help [other banks] with funding their loans, even providing fed funds lines with our excess liquidity—we buy and sell fed funds and act as a clearinghouse for check clearing activity. That would be the benefit or different model. We’re a depository bank and can bring that to bear.
MJ: If other states had a bank like yours, do you think they would have been more insulated from the credit crisis?

Advertise on MotherJones.com

EH: It all gets down the management and management philosophy. We’re a fairly conservative lot up here in the upper Midwest and we didn’t do any subprime lending and we have the ability to get into the derivatives markets and put on swaps and callers and caps and credit default swaps and just chose not to do it, really chose a Warren Buffett mentality—if we don’t understand it, we’re not going to jump into it. And so we’ve avoided all those pitfalls. That’s not to say that we’re completely immune to everything, certainly we’ve bought some mortgage-backed securities and we’re working through some of those issues, but nothing that would cause us to be concerned.

MJ: Would states with your model have any new tools to get out of the credit crisis?

EH: Let me put it to you another way and tell you another thing that we do. We also provide a dividend back to the state. Probably this year we’ll make somewhere north of $60 million, and we will turn over about half of our profits back to the state general fund. And so over the last 10, 12 years, we’ve turned back a third of a billion dollars just to the general fund to offset taxes or to aid in funding public sector types of needs.

MJ: Not bad for a state with a population of 600,000.

EH: Right. And here’s another thing: Back in 2001, 2002, when we went through the dot com bust, all the states suffered some sort of budget shortfall, including the state of North Dakota. At that time our budget shortfall was fairly insignificant--$40 some million. And so it was quite easy to overcome that. The governor just simply said alright, we’re going to turn back 1 percent of all general fund agencies, and the Bank of North Dakota, you will declare another dividend to make up the balance. And so we did that. Our capital was in a fine position to go ahead and do that. So in some cases we’ve acted as a rainy day fund.
MJ: And now the current downturn seems to have bypassed you.

EH: The State of North Dakota does not have any funding issues at all. We in fact are dealing with the largest surplus we’ve ever had. So our concern is how do we spend it wisely and make sure we save it for the future.

MJ: It’s not a bad problem to have.

EH: Yeah. We’re a little bit of an island here, and so we look around and we say boy that is unbelievable to see what is going on in the rest of the country and here we are completely countercyclical.

MJ: Are other states interested in your model?

EH: In my stint here as president, which as been about 9 years now, I’ve had a lot of inquiries from other states about how this works, could it work for them. And my predecessor, who is now the governor of the state of North Dakota, has in fact testified at a couple of other state legislatures in terms of setting up the same model. Up until a year or two ago I would have bet that it would never happen.

MJ: It’s funny, because North Dakota is traditionally a red state and yet you have these institutions—some people might say they’re socialist.

EH: Yeah, I’ve had that thrown at me many times.

MJ: But is seems like they are very popular in the state.

EH: Yeah, and of course the socialism theme has become in vogue lately, been thrown about a bit.

MJ: Aside from political opposition from bank interests, do you think it could be viable for other states to implement your model?

EH: So much of what is going on right now is a knee-jerk reaction to some things that have happened, where regulations and accounting practices weren’t where they should be. So my advice is everybody take a deep breath and we’re going to get through this and we are going to exit this as a stronger industry than when we went into it, with controls in places that are absolutely necessary, with banks understanding the risks they are taking. For all states to look at North Dakota’s model and say this would be the panacea to all those things, I don’t see that happening.

MJ: It’s clearly not the only solution, but I’m curious whether it could be part of it.

EH: Possibly. It just depends on what they want to do with it. We’re using this to spur economic growth for our state, to provide niches where others aren’t comfortable, whether it’s in-state financing of residential loans or making student loans. Every state has their own particular needs. We’ve carved out a pretty good niche here and I think are well-respected by our peers in the banking industry. They look at us as partners and not competitors. That would be the key if you were to do this in any other state is to replicate that part of our model. That’s where you really open yourself up for criticism, is state-owned businesses competing with the private sector.

MJ: Could a bank like yours be set up without sucking deposits out of private banks in the short term?

EH: I imagine you could do some sort of bond issue where you would use that as your funding source.

MJ: After seeing the credit crisis unfold, has it changed your opinion of what you do?

EH: It just reinforced what we do, and that is you stick to what you understand, you do it well, you know your customers. We’ve never been a bank that tries to hit home runs. That’s not what we’re all about. We have a specific mission which is more important. Most corporations and banks, their top priority is to maximize shareholder return. And that is a nice byproduct for us because we do have a nice return—an NROA [return on net operating assets] of 2, a ROE [return on equity] of 25, 26 percent. But really where we take the most satisfaction is making sure we meet the needs of the state and finance those types of things that make our state go forward.

[Mad Hatter]

RE UCC vs Common law

UCC is based on contract law. Difficut I know, but fiat money / credit is not the only option for being paid. A bond process may suffice (ultimately my word is my bond;)) but this requires knowledge therof and a minimum critical mass for it to take off. Commercial liens is another potential avenue but methinks the devious would still take advantage...

The argument goes that under a contract there must be an equal exchange of value which is where the banks supplying loans out of thin air based on computer keystrokes fly pretty close to the wind so stopping the fractional reserve lending fiasco would be a step in the right direction.

Of course you Americans could always try and get your government to go back to printing it's own money as allowed under your constitution a la greenbacks but unfortunately you have a habit of shooting those presidents that try... :eek:

The contract law term is mutual consideration, but that doesn't have to be of equal value.

Yes you are absolutely correct, my bad for not double checking before hiting the enter key....:o

Reflecting on the language it just dawned on me how they get to fly that close to the wind!! Thx

Wish we had the 'credit river case' http://educationcenter2000.com/legal/credit_river_decision.htm as a precedent in oz but the problem then would be to find an honest judge!! ;)

[Lord Sidious]

RE UCC vs Common law

UCC is based on contract law. Difficut I know, but fiat money / credit is not the only option for being paid. A bond process may suffice (ultimately my word is my bond;)) but this requires knowledge therof and a minimum critical mass for it to take off. Commercial liens is another potential avenue but methinks the devious would still take advantage...

The argument goes that under a contract there must be an equal exchange of value which is where the banks supplying loans out of thin air based on computer keystrokes fly pretty close to the wind so stopping the fractional reserve lending fiasco would be a step in the right direction.

Of course you Americans could always try and get your government to go back to printing it's own money as allowed under your constitution a la greenbacks but unfortunately you have a habit of shooting those presidents that try... :eek:

The contract law term is mutual consideration, but that doesn't have to be of equal value.

Yes you are absolutely correct, my bad for not double checking before hiting the enter key....:o

Reflecting on the language it just dawned on me how they get to fly that close to the wind!! Thx

Wish we had the 'credit river case' http://educationcenter2000.com/legal/credit_river_decision.htm as a precedent in oz but the problem then would be to find an honest judge!! ;)

The ''Credit River'' case is rumoured to have been overturned on appeal.
I would believe the rumour.

[king anthony]

common law versus U.C.C.

I say, the law that is for all is” Natural Law” - as all other “laws” belong to “them”. Natural Law has been suppressed and confused thus lost and almost forgotten.




RE UCC vs Common law

UCC is based on contract law.

The contract law term is mutual consideration, but that doesn't have to be of equal value.

Yes you are absolutely correct, my bad for not double checking before hiting the enter key....

Consideration is still one element for a binding agreement; there is “case law” supporting” this – however, I am not able to provide a sample at this time. I say, rather than argue within their arena, use their own words to escape it (and be free) - for then the advantage is not for them.

Remember, “it only matters when one allows it”.

[thunder24]

original quote by loveandgratitude

MJ: Are there areas that you invest in that other banks avoid?

EH: We made the first federally-insured student loan in the country back in 1967. So that’s been a big part of what we do. It’s become almost a mission-critical thing. I don’t know if you have been following the student loan industry lately, but it’s been very, very interesting as many have decided to leave. We will not though....

...MJ: After seeing the credit crisis unfold, has it changed your opinion of what you do?

EH: It just reinforced what we do, and that is you stick to what you understand, you do it well, you know your customers. We’ve never been a bank that tries to hit home runs. That’s not what we’re all about. We have a specific mission which is more important. Most corporations and banks, their top priority is to maximize shareholder return. And that is a nice byproduct for us because we do have a nice return—an NROA [return on net operating assets] of 2, a ROE [return on equity] of 25, 26 percent. But really where we take the most satisfaction is making sure we meet the needs of the state and finance those types of things that make our state go forward.

thankyou loveandgratitude for this very useful post. The above quotes I picked out, but the whole thing had jewels in it. this post is something to seriously consider folks.

King Anthony, is Natural law in the universal (plural universes) understandable by a human?:rapture:

[loveandgratitude]

TOO BIG TO FAIL
On the Road' to Socialization of Credit: Video

James Grant: 90 Seconds On The Fed (VIDEO)
Put the FED on notice and suggest that they draw up plans for a will.
THE SHORT CLIP -


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rn4YSWlTLHM&feature=player_embedded

SEE THE ENTIRE CLIP -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wILVS8D1NY&feature=player_embedded

[jackovesk]

OK here goes...

I am sure you realise this won't happen overnight...

Here are 6 Steps to consider for the US Banking System...

1. Abolish the Federal Reserve...then

2. Forgive the Entire US National Debt with a stroke of a pen

3. Reinstate the Glass-Steagall Act

What Does Glass-Steagall Act Mean?
An act passed by Congress in 1933 that prohibited commercial banks from collaborating with full-service brokerage firms or participating in investment banking activities.

The Glass-Steagall Act was enacted during the Great Depression. It protected bank depositors from the additional risks associated with security transactions. The act was dismantled in 1999. Consequently, the distinction between commercial banks and brokerage firms has blurred; many banks own brokerage firms and provide investment services.

4. Pose an Immediate Ban on all Financial Derivatives

5. Kick out of the Country all Financial Banking Institutions that are affiliated with the 'Central Banking System'

6. Then introduce more Mutual/Credit Union style Banks where the Ownership and Profits are shared amongst the depositers

...and Voila...Problem Solved!

[loveandgratitude]

What you suggest is definitely the map, the direction. Just getting the people to move in this direction seem to be the problem.

[thunder24]

Education, Education, education.... This is where it begins. Hit the youths minds early with the alternatives and you can produce a brighter future. Jacko, I know it won't happen over night, but I'm leaning towards the 100th monkey theory, not being a theory. thankyou for your post.
Lightbulbs are burning brighter.
peace

[loveandgratitude]

100th Monkey.
Could not resist this little gem..
Hope you enjoy, maybe have a little dance around the room.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZiwSd1FpLs

[loveandgratitude]

100th Monkey - A MORE SERIOUS TAKE

In an exerpt from Michael Ruppert's successful documentary "Collapse", Michael Ruppert reminds us of Elizabeth Kubler-Rosss "Five Stages of Grief," and comments that our society appears to be caught in the Anger stage. He also goes on to explain "The 100th Monkey Theory". Excellent film. . Michael Ruppert is an amazing individual'. If nothing else, while watching Ruppert, you'll believe he believes this stuff. He bursts into tears when discussing the need for "community," and requests a break when he's overwhelmed by the intensity of a new insight. But Ruppert's emotion, like his evident command of economics and energy policy, doesn't certify his direst prophecies. This is a wake-up video.

I feel more optimistic that Ruppert about the future, as each day I look out my window to see if I can see the 100th monkey walking down the street.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ux0tm9SQtQM&feature=relat

MORAL TO THE STORY - ALWAYS WASH YOUR COCONUTS

[king anthony]

King Anthony, is Natural law in the universal (plural universes) understandable by a human?

I am not exactly sure I understand your question; Natural Law is “universal” and applies to human existence (here on earth).

It applies to all living things; in my next book I explain Natural Law in more detail. In (very) brief, it applies to all living things and all things have the “right to life”. The “right to life” encompasses what is needed for survival as well as “happiness” (as defined by one or many).

Anyone or anything that does not recognize Natural Law is in breach; thus, has made themselves as the “dead”. Historical philosophers, such as Thomas Aquinas, Thomas Hobbes, Aristotle, John Locke and Jean Jacques (just to name a few) began to complicate the uncomplicated by defining Natural Law – by chance and design.

As for “killing for food”; Natural Law is based on circumstance and the reality in which “things” live. At the same time, Natural Law has different species working together and even aiding one another; such as in the video;

Hippo Saves Impala


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8mzz8xt6AU

To quote from my next book;

“So what is natural law? Natural law is the law of life - the fundamental element of this existence.” (copyright – king anthony 2011)

“…the human species as a whole has a responsibility to ensure that the human species maintains it genetic integrity and balance with nature, which is covered by natural law…” (copyright – king anthony 2011)

“Natural Law begins for a living thing once life has begun, thus the right to life begins…” (copyright – king Anthony 2011)

“Natural law has people working together to grow crops, maintain the food supply, build shelter and teach one another for personal growth. All people can unite under Natural Law as a collective and still maintain individuality.” (copyright – king Anthony 2011)

In conclusion, banking and any monetary system is not - when Natural Law is. I trust the above said gives a satisfactory answer to your question.

[thunder24]

Yes indeed, very satisfactory. I thankyou for that, so I know what your definition and understanding of it meant. I would agree under what you detailed, banking and monetary system would not be if natural law Is.

Do you think its possibly to get the mass of humanity to this point of understanding say, n the next 6 years?
peace

[king anthony]

Do you think its possibly to get the mass of humanity to this point of understanding say, n the next 6 years?

I say, all have potential, however not all have ability. I still have ears to what many cannot see – unfortunately, things will be as “they” want far sooner than six years. Some can only set an example for the rest – time will be the judge. As with a sinking, one can save one - and each must be accountable for not breathing the sea. This is not only for what is specific here but for humanity overall.

[thunder24]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U71-KsDArFM

Wizards of oz

peace

[<8>]

If you think a new money/bank thing gonna help us or work in the future? You are still a prisoner in the mind. Look in to history and learn from that.

I personally think it is to early to make a new system. And if you ask me there can be no money in this new thing we make.
I think we all need to be awake to make this work.

Sorry guys i guess we have to use there fake money a bit more. (i hope you know they print money out of thin air?)

[Endless]

housing the poor is a problem but we all see the empty houses
feeding the poor is a problem but we know how to grow enough food
money doesnt work unless you agree with work to live
working to live is no longer a viable alternative for lots of the world there are to many of us
with less and less jobs more and more poor
either we change or we die
most cant see that yet but as economies crumble they will do
we are only "alternative" now soon the mainstream will catch up
money and banks are not viable long term
flogging a dead horse will just lead to blisters

[thunder24]

I am well aware of the financial system in place and how it works. i am of the mind set now to be off of money. I saw part of this movie this morning, and since I started this thread i put it here.

thanks for your opionion though <8>

peace

[thunder24]

With the american government about to default through misuse and mis appropriation, What will the new economy look like. Many say we need to get away from money, and while i don't disagree, I do not see total chaos as the answer. Total chaos is what your gonna get if we crash.

A transition would be a more likely smooth step(if possible to be smooth). How are we going to transition? Its very easy to give all the reasons to get off of money, now Avalon, give solutions. No complaining or two cents, just seeking solutions to this problem.

State Banks, here, sound like a viable option NOW. We will have to do something, and nothing isn't an option.

peace

[loveandgratitude]

Reinstate the Glass- Stegal Act.

The Banking Act of 1933, Pub.L. 73-66, 48 Stat. 162, enacted June 16, 1933, was a law that established the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) in the United States and introduced banking reforms, some of which were designed to control speculation.[1] It is most commonly known as the Glass–Steagall Act, after its legislative sponsors, Senator Carter Glass and Congressman Henry B. Steagall.

Some provisions of the Act, such as Regulation Q, which allowed the Federal Reserve to regulate interest rates in savings accounts, were repealed by the Depository Institutions Deregulation and Monetary Control Act of 1980. Provisions that prohibit a bank holding company from owning other financial companies were repealed on November 12, 1999, by the Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act.[2][3]

The repeal of provisions of the Glass–Steagall Act of 1933 by the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act effectively removed the separation that previously existed between Wall Street investment banks and depository banks. Some experts believe that this repeal directly contributed to the severity of the Financial crisis of 2007–2011 by allowing banks to gamble with their depositors' money.[4][5][6][7][8] Others argue that repealing the provisions had little impact on the financial system and even helped restore stability during the financial crisis. [9][10]

[loveandgratitude]

Glass-Stegal Update - by glasstegal

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?25730-Glass-Steagall-update-John-F.-Tierney--D-MA--joins-the-fight