7 million people refuse to fill in UK census on census day

[Jayke]

This made me laugh, 7 million people, 25% of the households in the UK ignored the bullying tactics and threats of fines to not complete the census on census day. Got to be a good sign of people beginning to wake up...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCguRsSf-7c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCguRsSf-7c

[Open your eyes]

This has made me chuckle. Thanks for posting this jayke lOl

[mondaze]

i would have done but they refused to send a latin scholar to translate it for me

[ViralSpiral]

7 million awake people! HOOORAAAY!!

C'mon get your sack of 100,000 pence ready!

[araucaria]

They're going to have to organize themselves, otherwise that's 7 billion in fines they'll be owing

[Lord Sidious]

And now to see how ''they'' respond to this mass civil disobedience.
They can't fine them all, they don't have the resources.

[Agape]

Now that we won't know how many people we have actually it's going to be whole more of fun...

[Lost Soul]

I was talking with a former census taker here in the U.S. He's a minority and was sent to both good and very dangerous neighborhoods. He got cooperation from minorities who are gangbangers (criminals) and his worse experience was from middle class white females who were probably on some sort of medication. One nut job refused to open the door and accused him of stalking her. He then turned around and knocked on the neighbor's apartment (across from her) as he had to speak with the occupants there. She then opened her door and screamed that he was harassing her. The landlord admitted she was a sack 'o nuts.

[Bryn ap Gwilym]

You will enjoy this video then.
A visit from the census
iTwlw1u_iF8

[lightblue]

.

i half filled it in....left about 50 per cent unanswered...some of the questions were prying into your privacy...i don't know who would answer those..

the results will be sketchy, no doubt... that's because the questionaire was awkward... l


.

.

[Hybrid5226]

I hope those 7 million people do not live next to their mother-in-law like me. Geeze

[Teakai]

You will enjoy this video then.
A visit from the census
iTwlw1u_iF8

That was brilliant, thanks for posting it, Bryn ap Gwilym . I like the manner in which he's passing it on.

[Agape]

Here they just wanted to know this year ...how many computers is in the household..and how big is each room ..and what's in the store room ( no they didn't :lol:)
I was told there were more and different questions the time before ..but I've never been here for any census in my life.
I'm seldom here anyway. No idea if they should count me in. No idea :lol:

[Muzz]

Its looking good up north.

30% of Scots ignore census


Published on 5 Apr 2011

CAROLYN CHURCHILL

AROUND 700,000 households in Scotland had failed to return their census questionnaires a week after they were due to be completed.

Registrar General for Scotland Duncan Macniven said 1.8 million forms had been sorted by Royal Mail or filled in online, but 30% of the surveys had yet to be returned.

Source-
http://www.heraldscotland.com/mobile/news/home-news/30-of-scots-ignore-census-1.1094531

"Twelve highlanders and a bagpipe make a rebellion" :cool:

[Lord Sidious]

Its looking good up north.

30% of Scots ignore census


Published on 5 Apr 2011

CAROLYN CHURCHILL

AROUND 700,000 households in Scotland had failed to return their census questionnaires a week after they were due to be completed.

Registrar General for Scotland Duncan Macniven said 1.8 million forms had been sorted by Royal Mail or filled in online, but 30% of the surveys had yet to be returned.

Source-
http://www.heraldscotland.com/mobile/news/home-news/30-of-scots-ignore-census-1.1094531

"Twelve highlanders and a bagpipe make a rebellion" :cool:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlqoDXxujK8
Like this?

[Muzz]

Fantastic Lord Sidious. Im a nugget from the old thrash metal days. Music tastes are varied now but nothing like a few power chords to stir the soul. And a bagpipe solo!

Looks cool when you switch from air guitar to air bagpipe. :)

[Mr54]

I filled in my form like a good sheeple. Unfortunately I used joined up writing, forgot to sign it, and then worse of all I dropped it in a puddle on the way to the post office. It must be the dumbing down influence from my schooling and subsequent TV exposure.

[SteveX]

but will they fine the illegal immigrants that didn’t fill in the form. Na, it’ll be suckers with jobs.

BTW. I didn't have a worry about filling in the form. However, for job title I put Ambulance chacers assistant....I work for a lawyers firm.

[buffski]

but will they fine the illegal immigrants that didn’t fill in the form. Na, it’ll be suckers with jobs.

BTW. I didn't have a worry about filling in the form. However, for job title I put Ambulance chacers assistant....I work for a lawyers firm.

erm...er... nah, think I'll save my breath!!

[SteveX]

but will they fine the illegal immigrants that didn’t fill in the form. Na, it’ll be suckers with jobs.

BTW. I didn't have a worry about filling in the form. However, for job title I put Ambulance chacers assistant....I work for a lawyers firm.

erm...er... nah, think I'll save my breath!!

awe...please speak your mind. This is after all a forum.

[phimonic]

i just watched the movie Inside Job => the next few years the bankers shall pay the census ^^ -

[DevilPigeon]

-----

I may be naive here, and I'm sure the question has already been asked... but the fact is that the census asks you to confirm your name & address, and no doubt to sign to say you understand etc... That makes it a contract, and a contract can only be entered into by willing parties - ie you can't be forced to enter into/sign a contract.

[SteveX]

-----

I may be naive here, and I'm sure the question has already been asked... but the fact is that the census asks you to confirm your name & address, and no doubt to sign to say you understand etc... That makes it a contract, and a contract can only be entered into by willing parties - ie you can't be forced to enter into/sign a contract.

You’d like to think so but no. The census is mandatory. You are merle signing to say that it is true (what you filled in) to the best of your knowledge.

[SKAWF]

ive just had a visit from a woman.

she said she was from the census.
i told her that as far as i was concerned it was a contract and i wanted no part in it.
i closed the door.
she said 'NO, sorry, you DO have to do it'
and i said
'no-one can force me to take part in a contractual agreement'
she said 'so i'll put you down as refused then shall i?'
i said 'no i dont want you to put me down as anything.'
she then said she didnt want to get into a row with me,
i told her to 'go away'.and closed the door.

as far as i'm concerned, if it requires my signature, its a contract.
a legally binding doccument.

i dont care what machinations are on the other side of it,
or if its presented in a unique and refreshing way, its a contract.

i wish more people would realise the implications of soveriegnty.
we know that they are starting to chip away at it, and that at some point,
they will attempt to get us to give it up entirely, thats where they are heading.
if we get a grip on it now, it could be a major spanner in the works for them,
we could..... dare i say it.... head them off at the pass.

(post edited because i'd calmed down)

[mattymoto]

I thought a census was to find out how many people there are at the current date. Meaning a way for the gov to count people for whatever reason(s). Odd how some people chose not to fill out this census, yet we know how many? Seems to me that they are asking for info, that I have to logically conclude, they already have.

[Lord Sidious]

-----

I may be naive here, and I'm sure the question has already been asked... but the fact is that the census asks you to confirm your name & address, and no doubt to sign to say you understand etc... That makes it a contract, and a contract can only be entered into by willing parties - ie you can't be forced to enter into/sign a contract.

You’d like to think so but no. The census is mandatory. You are merle signing to say that it is true (what you filled in) to the best of your knowledge.

No, he is right, this is indeed a contract to perform.
Why do you think they fine you for non performance?


ive just had a visit from a woman.

she said she was from the census.
i told her that as far as i was concerned it was a contract and i wanted no part in it.
i closed the door.
she said 'NO, sorry, you DO have to do it'
and i said
'no-one can force me to take part in a contractual agreement'
she said 'so i'll put you down as refused then shall i?'
i said 'no i dont want you to put me down as anything.'
she then said she didnt want to get into a row with me,
i told her to 'go away'.and closed the door.

as far as i'm concerned, if it requires my signature, its a contract.
a legally binding doccument.

i dont care what machinations are on the other side of it,
or if its presented in a unique and refreshing way, its a contract.

i wish more people would realise the implications of soveriegnty.
we know that they are starting to chip away at it, and that at some point,
they will attempt to get us to give it up entirely, thats where they are heading.
if we get a grip on it now, it could be a major spanner in the works for them,
we could..... dare i say it.... head them off at the pass.

(post edited because i'd calmed down)

Good work on not playing the game.
It is better to put the ball into their court by not making statments.
When they say you have to do it, you can say to them, I would be happy to, if I know what I was agreeing to.
Or, Do you have any evidence that this is mandatory?
Best of all, you can withdraw all lisence, implied and expressed for her and anyone else to enter your property in regards to the census.
Then they are cactus.

[araucaria]

I thought a census was to find out how many people there are at the current date. Meaning a way for the gov to count people for whatever reason(s). Odd how some people chose not to fill out this census, yet we know how many? Seems to me that they are asking for info, that I have to logically conclude, they already have.

If they already know how severely they are outnumbered, then they are asking for the wrong info. Better questions to ask might be how many ufos you've seen this year, how many bottles of 911 dust you collected, how do you expect Dec21 2012 to affect your Christmas shopping, I don't know. The sheer lack of imagination is astounding!

[Wiremu2011]

They're going to have to organize themselves, otherwise that's 7 billion in fines they'll be owing

Otherwise fill it out with a load of s h i t e.

[161803398]

I had to fill in the UK census once when I was on holiday there. The guy I was with filled his in with a lot of BS.

[SteveX]

-----

I may be naive here, and I'm sure the question has already been asked... but the fact is that the census asks you to confirm your name & address, and no doubt to sign to say you understand etc... That makes it a contract, and a contract can only be entered into by willing parties - ie you can't be forced to enter into/sign a contract.

You’d like to think so but no. The census is mandatory. You are merle signing to say that it is true (what you filled in) to the best of your knowledge.

No, he is right, this is indeed a contract to perform.
Why do you think they fine you for non performance?


ive just had a visit from a woman.

she said she was from the census.
i told her that as far as i was concerned it was a contract and i wanted no part in it.
i closed the door.
she said 'NO, sorry, you DO have to do it'
and i said
'no-one can force me to take part in a contractual agreement'
she said 'so i'll put you down as refused then shall i?'
i said 'no i dont want you to put me down as anything.'
she then said she didnt want to get into a row with me,
i told her to 'go away'.and closed the door.

as far as i'm concerned, if it requires my signature, its a contract.
a legally binding doccument.

i dont care what machinations are on the other side of it,
or if its presented in a unique and refreshing way, its a contract.

i wish more people would realise the implications of soveriegnty.
we know that they are starting to chip away at it, and that at some point,
they will attempt to get us to give it up entirely, thats where they are heading.
if we get a grip on it now, it could be a major spanner in the works for them,
we could..... dare i say it.... head them off at the pass.

(post edited because i'd calmed down)

Good work on not playing the game.
It is better to put the ball into their court by not making statments.
When they say you have to do it, you can say to them, I would be happy to, if I know what I was agreeing to.
Or, Do you have any evidence that this is mandatory?
Best of all, you can withdraw all lisence, implied and expressed for her and anyone else to enter your property in regards to the census.
Then they are cactus.

Guys...there’s how you think it is and then there's how it is. I've done the census. I've read every word of it. The completion of the census is mandatory. Mandatory in the same way a 30MPH limit is mandatory. Get it?

It also says plainly above the box for your signature...that you are signing to say the information you have given is true to the best of your ability. There is no contract to debate because, in theory, you've no option but to fill it in. In theory your not supposed to do 70 in a 30 either.

Oh! and another thing...we are not sovereign in the UK. We are subjects of her majesty the Queen. :)

[John101]

Guys...there’s how you think it is and then there's how it is. I've done the census. I've read every word of it. The completion of the census is mandatory. Mandatory in the same way a 30MPH limit is mandatory. Get it?

Oh come on Please. I mean no disrespect here but really? mandatory
As I told my boss not 18 months ago when being told I had to do something. the only thing mandatory for me is to breath everything else is optional. consequences for my actions sure I accept them, but don't tell me it's mandatory, that's for me to choose.

If everyone removes their consent they are powerless. you just need to have the balls to accept the consequences of your actions

[DevilPigeon]

.
.
Guys...there’s how you think it is and then there's how it is. I've done the census. I've read every word of it. The completion of the census is mandatory. Mandatory in the same way a 30MPH limit is mandatory. Get it?

It also says plainly above the box for your signature...that you are signing to say the information you have given is true to the best of your ability. There is no contract to debate because, in theory, you've no option but to fill it in. In theory your not supposed to do 70 in a 30 either.

Oh! and another thing...we are not sovereign in the UK. We are subjects of her majesty the Queen. :)

Good for you...! Me, I've not done the census. I've not read a word of it (not even opened the envelope). They tell you it's mandatory, but why is it???

There are certain aspects of law/legislation that are a good thing, like the speed limit. That's sensible. No argument there.

And I'm sorry, but as far as I'm concerned, if a document requires a signature then it's a contract. Forget how it's worded or put across. Why else ask for a signature??? A signature binds you into a legal process.

The last sentence I don't doubt, from the moment we're born we're born into slavery, but those binds are legal binds (birth certificate, NI number etc), governed by the law of contracts. Doesn't make it right, and if we ever want to get rid of those binds, then we need to start acting against these ridiculous 'mandatory' things they insist we complete... The census is as good a place to start, IMO..... :)

[John101]

.
.
Guys...there’s how you think it is and then there's how it is. I've done the census. I've read every word of it. The completion of the census is mandatory. Mandatory in the same way a 30MPH limit is mandatory. Get it?

It also says plainly above the box for your signature...that you are signing to say the information you have given is true to the best of your ability. There is no contract to debate because, in theory, you've no option but to fill it in. In theory your not supposed to do 70 in a 30 either.

Oh! and another thing...we are not sovereign in the UK. We are subjects of her majesty the Queen. :)

Good for you...! Me, I've not done the census. I've not read a word of it (not even opened the envelope). They tell you it's mandatory, but why is it???

There are certain aspects of law/legislation that are a good thing, like the speed limit. That's sensible. No argument there.

And I'm sorry, but as far as I'm concerned, if a document requires a signature then it's a contract. Forget how it's worded or put across. Why else ask for a signature??? A signature binds you into a legal process.

The last sentence I don't doubt, from the moment we're born we're born into slavery, but those binds are legal binds (birth certificate, NI number etc), governed by the law of contracts. Doesn't make it right, and if we ever want to get rid of those binds, then we need to start acting against these ridiculous 'mandatory' things they insist we complete... The census is as good a good place to start, IMO..... :)


HERE HERE
Very well said.

[SteveX]

Guys...there’s how you think it is and then there's how it is. I've done the census. I've read every word of it. The completion of the census is mandatory. Mandatory in the same way a 30MPH limit is mandatory. Get it?

Oh come on Please. I mean no disrespect here but really? mandatory
As I told my boss not 18 months ago when being told I had to do something. the only thing mandatory for me is to breath everything else is optional. consequences for my actions sure I except them, but don't tell me it's mandatory, that's for me to choose.

If everyone removes their consent they are powerless. you just need to have the balls to except the consequences of your actions

Although I agree with you...to the point to say that even breathing is optional, you've kinda missed my point. Set aside the fact that the word "mandatory" is on the census form, my point was saying that it's (the census) not a contract as others were arguing. "Theoretically" you have no choice in the matter.

[DevilPigeon]

-----

Steve

1. Why did you complete the census?
2. What is the point of it?

DP

[butcherman]

f***k em i sent i back with crayons and paint the kids had fun filling it in for me

[Lord Sidious]

-----

I may be naive here, and I'm sure the question has already been asked... but the fact is that the census asks you to confirm your name & address, and no doubt to sign to say you understand etc... That makes it a contract, and a contract can only be entered into by willing parties - ie you can't be forced to enter into/sign a contract.

You’d like to think so but no. The census is mandatory. You are merle signing to say that it is true (what you filled in) to the best of your knowledge.

No, he is right, this is indeed a contract to perform.
Why do you think they fine you for non performance?


ive just had a visit from a woman.

she said she was from the census.
i told her that as far as i was concerned it was a contract and i wanted no part in it.
i closed the door.
she said 'NO, sorry, you DO have to do it'
and i said
'no-one can force me to take part in a contractual agreement'
she said 'so i'll put you down as refused then shall i?'
i said 'no i dont want you to put me down as anything.'
she then said she didnt want to get into a row with me,
i told her to 'go away'.and closed the door.

as far as i'm concerned, if it requires my signature, its a contract.
a legally binding doccument.

i dont care what machinations are on the other side of it,
or if its presented in a unique and refreshing way, its a contract.

i wish more people would realise the implications of soveriegnty.
we know that they are starting to chip away at it, and that at some point,
they will attempt to get us to give it up entirely, thats where they are heading.
if we get a grip on it now, it could be a major spanner in the works for them,
we could..... dare i say it.... head them off at the pass.

(post edited because i'd calmed down)

Good work on not playing the game.
It is better to put the ball into their court by not making statments.
When they say you have to do it, you can say to them, I would be happy to, if I know what I was agreeing to.
Or, Do you have any evidence that this is mandatory?
Best of all, you can withdraw all lisence, implied and expressed for her and anyone else to enter your property in regards to the census.
Then they are cactus.

Guys...there’s how you think it is and then there's how it is. I've done the census. I've read every word of it. The completion of the census is mandatory. Mandatory in the same way a 30MPH limit is mandatory. Get it?

It also says plainly above the box for your signature...that you are signing to say the information you have given is true to the best of your ability. There is no contract to debate because, in theory, you've no option but to fill it in. In theory your not supposed to do 70 in a 30 either.

Oh! and another thing...we are not sovereign in the UK. We are subjects of her majesty the Queen. :)

Mandatory for whom? Persons? Are YOU a person?
Your choice of example fails you, the speed limit and ''road rules'' are indeed part of a contract that you agreed to when you got the drivers lisence.
Your last sentence speaks of the slave mentality. Sorry to put it like that, but that is what it is.



Guys...there’s how you think it is and then there's how it is. I've done the census. I've read every word of it. The completion of the census is mandatory. Mandatory in the same way a 30MPH limit is mandatory. Get it?

Oh come on Please. I mean no disrespect here but really? mandatory
As I told my boss not 18 months ago when being told I had to do something. the only thing mandatory for me is to breath everything else is optional. consequences for my actions sure I accept them, but don't tell me it's mandatory, that's for me to choose.

If everyone removes their consent they are powerless. you just need to have the balls to accept the consequences of your actions

I wish there were more people with this realisation.
When I have particapated in people learning the type of law I have posted about, I see most need the operation before they can use it.
They need their wishbones removed and a backbone inserted. You don't, you have one.
I like your attitude.




Guys...there’s how you think it is and then there's how it is. I've done the census. I've read every word of it. The completion of the census is mandatory. Mandatory in the same way a 30MPH limit is mandatory. Get it?

Oh come on Please. I mean no disrespect here but really? mandatory
As I told my boss not 18 months ago when being told I had to do something. the only thing mandatory for me is to breath everything else is optional. consequences for my actions sure I except them, but don't tell me it's mandatory, that's for me to choose.

If everyone removes their consent they are powerless. you just need to have the balls to except the consequences of your actions

Although I agree with you...to the point to say that even breathing is optional, you've kinda missed my point. Set aside the fact that the word "mandatory" is on the census form, my point was saying that it's (the census) not a contract as others were arguing. "Theoretically" you have no choice in the matter.

So the word mandatory is on the form. And?
You believed it?
What does that word mean at law for the purposes of the census?

[John101]

"Theoretically" you have no choice in the matter.
Steve that's the illusion, you always have a choice, they just make you think you don't

Free will my friend.

[Peacelovinman]

-----

I may be naive here, and I'm sure the question has already been asked... but the fact is that the census asks you to confirm your name & address, and no doubt to sign to say you understand etc... That makes it a contract, and a contract can only be entered into by willing parties - ie you can't be forced to enter into/sign a contract.

You’d like to think so but no. The census is mandatory. You are merle signing to say that it is true (what you filled in) to the best of your knowledge.

No, he is right, this is indeed a contract to perform.
Why do you think they fine you for non performance?


ive just had a visit from a woman.

she said she was from the census.
i told her that as far as i was concerned it was a contract and i wanted no part in it.
i closed the door.
she said 'NO, sorry, you DO have to do it'
and i said
'no-one can force me to take part in a contractual agreement'
she said 'so i'll put you down as refused then shall i?'
i said 'no i dont want you to put me down as anything.'
she then said she didnt want to get into a row with me,
i told her to 'go away'.and closed the door.

as far as i'm concerned, if it requires my signature, its a contract.
a legally binding doccument.

i dont care what machinations are on the other side of it,
or if its presented in a unique and refreshing way, its a contract.

i wish more people would realise the implications of soveriegnty.
we know that they are starting to chip away at it, and that at some point,
they will attempt to get us to give it up entirely, thats where they are heading.
if we get a grip on it now, it could be a major spanner in the works for them,
we could..... dare i say it.... head them off at the pass.

(post edited because i'd calmed down)

Good work on not playing the game.
It is better to put the ball into their court by not making statments.
When they say you have to do it, you can say to them, I would be happy to, if I know what I was agreeing to.
Or, Do you have any evidence that this is mandatory?
Best of all, you can withdraw all lisence, implied and expressed for her and anyone else to enter your property in regards to the census.
Then they are cactus.

Guys...there’s how you think it is and then there's how it is. I've done the census. I've read every word of it. The completion of the census is mandatory. Mandatory in the same way a 30MPH limit is mandatory. Get it?

It also says plainly above the box for your signature...that you are signing to say the information you have given is true to the best of your ability. There is no contract to debate because, in theory, you've no option but to fill it in. In theory your not supposed to do 70 in a 30 either.

Oh! and another thing...we are not sovereign in the UK. We are subjects of her majesty the Queen. :)

Thanks for the advice, Steve. Makes me want to just bend over and take my state-sponsored medicine like the slave I am. Guess I'll be seeing you in the queue for the microchip which will also, no doubt, be "mandatory"?

Good job Ghandi didn't say to those millions of Indians, "sorry guys, the British say it's mandatory so let's just get on with it..."

[Seikou-Kishi]

I haven't completed mine or sent it off, but I half wish now that I'd written that I had multiple personality disorder and filled it in all about them lol. I could say one personality works as a carpenter, but he's also Church of England and he likes the symbolism. Then there's the other personality that works as a full-time carer for the alcoholic personality

[Nasu]

Go England! Could the reason for these 7 million "drop outs" be apathy? Or was it not done out of a sense of strong conviction, I wonder. Whether we sign up or not, we are on the grid one way or another, we are discussing it on the grid after all. Surely an awake populous is more aware of this fact than one who still sleep walks? Either way, go England, we cannot control what they do to us but we can control our reaction.. N

[dukes4monny]

Umm, sorry, what / when was this census thing? We had some beautiful weather today, how was it where you are?

[norman]

When I filled in my census form, just to keep the hassle down, I was puzzled why they asked the things they did.

As someone else has said, I think they know all the stuff they were asking, already.

The census might only be a rain check to see how restless the natives are. And - to keep up the idea that we are to be bossed around and counted like cattle.

If 25% in England and 30% in Scotland have ignored it, that's probably the figure they were after all the time.

[Fred259]

Go England! Could the reason for these 7 million "drop outs" be apathy? Or was it not done out of a sense of strong conviction, I wonder. Whether we sign up or not, we are on the grid one way or another, we are discussing it on the grid after all. Surely an awake populous is more aware of this fact than one who still sleep walks? Either way, go England, we cannot control what they do to us but we can control our reaction.. N

The real figure is actually closer to 8 million. The 7 million figure related to England & Wales. Another 770,000 Scots declined on this occasion, plus the Ulstermen where unfortunately no figure is available, so it’s probably around 8 million.


What is rather interesting is that following the census, Lockheed Martin issues a press release saying they were proceeding with the Biometric scanning of all data belonging to every citizen within the United States.

Now the Nazis were the last people to do this, and so it's quite important.

Given this is happening in the United States we would of course expect the same thing to happen here. It probably explains why Lockheed Martin were given this job in the first place.

KTLight posted this thread originally and now I think its most relevant under the circumstances.


Lockheed Martin – The Invisible Government and your census form.

The FBI launched this week a massive program aimed to record all citizen’s biometrics data. This will eventually enable instant surveillance and recognition of any individual walking on the street or entering a building. The 1 Billion $ deal was awarded to Lockheed Martin - the world’s largest defence company, which is part of elite groups such as the CFR (Council of Foreign Relations) and the Trilateral Commission. In short, Lockheed Martin is the official defence company of the world’s shadow or invisible government.

Now you know why the UK Government were so keen that you fill in that Census form.

The FBI recently announced that its Next Generation Identification System (NGIS) has "reached its initial operating capacity". This vast new biometrics project, for which Lockheed Martin won a $1bn contract in 2008, encompasses not only fingerprints but also, possibly, such biometrics as iris scans, face recognition, bodily scars, marks and tattoos.

Such a system raises a number of concerns from a civil liberties perspective. Many types of biometrics are of particular concern because they allow individuals to be tracked secretly and at a distance. For instance, facial recognition may allow a person to be tracked by various CCTV cameras across a city. Worse, in the future, this may be automated and done by computers.

The FBI is rushing ahead with this system in a larger context that is very troubling. Since 9/11, we've repeatedly seen the government throw together new identity and tracking systems without building in the necessary protections to make sure innocent people aren't caught up in them. A good example is aviation watch lists. Countless travelers have found themselves trapped in a Kafkaesque nightmare – improperly listed as suspected terrorists, hassled, arrested or worse, and with no way to clear their names in the eyes of the government's secretive security bureaucracies. The problem is not just errors and mistaken identification, or the lack of due process or rigorous procedures for keeping the lists accurate, but also the possibility that government bureaucrats have used a "when in doubt, thrown a name on the list" approach.

We don't want to see the NGIS operate that way. Unfortunately, the FBI's record does not inspire confidence. In 2003, the bureau exempted its main criminal database, the National Crime Information Center (NCIC), from a requirement under the Privacy Act that agencies maintain records with "such accuracy, relevance, timeliness and completeness as is reasonably necessary to assure fairness to the individual". Some people have experienced the reality of this, such as a Maryland woman named Amy Studnitz who was fired from her job after an NCIC background check erroneously reported that she had a criminal record (even after the error was discovered, she was not rehired).

The experience of Oregon attorney Brandon Mayfield is also a cautionary tale. Considered a suspect in the 2004 bombing of a Madrid train due to a faulty fingerprint match, the FBI spied on Mayfield without a warrant, broke into his home several times and arrested him under the "material witness" statute. The FBI also investigated 19 other individuals whose fingerprints, like Mayfield's, were deemed similar to those found on evidence in Madrid.

Finally, the FBI's giant biometric project is taking place in a context where the United States – almost alone in the industrialised world – has no strong, overarching privacy laws, and no robust, independent institutions to enforce such laws. In another country where such institutions existed to protect people from error and abuse, this kind of programme might be cause for less concern. But rather than building such institutions, the US government has instead been granting sweeping new powers to our security agencies, and dismantling the checks and balances that are needed to ensure those powers are not misused.

Most technologies have good and bad uses, and limited uses of biometrics can be fine. But these databases need strict oversight, and now is the time to make sure the proper safeguards are in place. As the use of biometrics expands and our law enforcement moves into the future, so too should our privacy rights.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/...ernational

Oh silly me, I nearly forgot to mention, the CEO of Lockheed Martin, Robert J. Stevens is Lead Director of the Monsanto Company – the world’s largest agricultural biotechnology corporation – which is a member of the Bilderberg group.

The sooner they are all in jail the sooner it gets better…..

[Lord Sidious]

So when are we going to stop these nuggets?

[DevilPigeon]

So when are we going to stop these nuggets?

"Now" seems like a good time to start I'd say..! :clock:

[John101]

So when are we going to stop these nuggets?

I am ready to stand beside you Sid.

Warning rant likely to be just ahead.

I have a dream.......

That one day soon humanity will rise as one, every country in the world and march on governments simultaneously, in a peaceful revolution.Let it be know we are one, any policy officer that raises a weapon against anyone for us will bare the weight of us all. although we are peaceful we retain the right to defend ourselves should we come across any violence for anyone trying to stop us...Move aside, we do not consent and you are all fired. Break down the doors of power (these are the doors you pay for...They are yours) and go through every document they have, bring all those lies out and make sure that justice is really done. this is our planet we are no longer your slaves and everyone has a right to live in peace without you dropping bombs on them for profits.

Lots more but all just personal opinion, I'm not a politician so I will stop here, I'm sure you all get the Idea.

[Anchor]

This made me laugh, 7 million people, 25% of the households in the UK ignored the bullying tactics and threats of fines to not complete the census on census day. Got to be a good sign of people beginning to wake up...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCguRsSf-7c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCguRsSf-7c

I dispute the use of the word "refuse" in the title. That will be more evident once the follow-up crews have actually been around to see people who didnt make the return.

[Lord Sidious]

Ok, well now is the time for you guys to let Bill know that you want avalon radio.
I can discuss law topics as well as other stuff and try to lead you guys out of the system.
But I can only put the tools out there, I can't wield them for you.
I won't teach you anything as I don't like to speak in that manner, that is ego.
You may learn from me, but I won't be a teacher, if you get my meaning?

[oceanz]

If your census form doesn't go in the bin maybe it accidently falls into some glue which accidently glues each page together.

[SteveX]

.
.
Guys...there’s how you think it is and then there's how it is. I've done the census. I've read every word of it. The completion of the census is mandatory. Mandatory in the same way a 30MPH limit is mandatory. Get it?

It also says plainly above the box for your signature...that you are signing to say the information you have given is true to the best of your ability. There is no contract to debate because, in theory, you've no option but to fill it in. In theory your not supposed to do 70 in a 30 either.

Oh! and another thing...we are not sovereign in the UK. We are subjects of her majesty the Queen. :)

Good for you...! Me, I've not done the census. I've not read a word of it (not even opened the envelope). They tell you it's mandatory, but why is it???

There are certain aspects of law/legislation that are a good thing, like the speed limit. That's sensible. No argument there.

And I'm sorry, but as far as I'm concerned, if a document requires a signature then it's a contract. Forget how it's worded or put across. Why else ask for a signature??? A signature binds you into a legal process.

The last sentence I don't doubt, from the moment we're born we're born into slavery, but those binds are legal binds (birth certificate, NI number etc), governed by the law of contracts. Doesn't make it right, and if we ever want to get rid of those binds, then we need to start acting against these ridiculous 'mandatory' things they insist we complete... The census is as good a place to start, IMO..... :)

Although I think your barking up the wrong tree I like the attitude in your message. However, my argument is about the miss use of the term "contract". A contract is a legally enforceable agreement between two or more parties with mutual obligations. There is no MUTUAL obligation. There is no contract in completion of the census because you are TOLD to complete it. What you are signing for is to confirm that the information you submitted is true. You are NOT getting a mutual benefit by adding your signature. Therefore it is NOT a contract.

Personally I don't give two hoots what individuals do or don't do with the census. What ticks me off is when folk try and blow it up to a thing that it isn't. There's one thing to argue the point of the census but please argue it on a factual point.


-----

Steve

1. Why did you complete the census?
2. What is the point of it?

DP

1) I completed the census for a couple of reasons. Firstly, there's nothing I added to the census that TPTB, should I flag up on their dar, couldn't find out in a day. Secondly I quite like the idea of some historian or distant relative looking up the info in a hundred years time. I can see em now..."WTF is an ambulance chacers assistant"

2) The point of the census is to plan infrastructure for the future. That's what they say and I don't think it's anymore sinister than that. Personally I'd like em to catch a load of illegals but they won't, they'll plan infrastructure to house and school the B*****s.

[ViralSpiral]

Secondly I quite like the idea of some historian or distant relative looking up the info in a hundred years time. I can see em now..."WTF is an ambulance chacers assistant"

chortle...

Dont forget though that History is written by the victors. Winston Churchill, so perhaps ambulance chaser's assistant may one day read:- useless eater :eek:

And yes, I am sure we can all agree that a reason would be to assess the populace and the gravity of the depletion of their precious resources...... I'd stlll say: up yours!



I WOULD L♥VE NUGGET RADIO!!!!!!


how can I help?

[shijo]

hmm i filled it in on the supposedly last day (with omissions), sent it and on 14 th got a letter that i hadnt sent it and could i do it again, what a ****ing cheek.

[ViralSpiral]

dont do it, I dare you

[SteveX]

-----

I may be naive here, and I'm sure the question has already been asked... but the fact is that the census asks you to confirm your name & address, and no doubt to sign to say you understand etc... That makes it a contract, and a contract can only be entered into by willing parties - ie you can't be forced to enter into/sign a contract.

You’d like to think so but no. The census is mandatory. You are merle signing to say that it is true (what you filled in) to the best of your knowledge.

No, he is right, this is indeed a contract to perform.
Why do you think they fine you for non performance?


ive just had a visit from a woman.

she said she was from the census.
i told her that as far as i was concerned it was a contract and i wanted no part in it.
i closed the door.
she said 'NO, sorry, you DO have to do it'
and i said
'no-one can force me to take part in a contractual agreement'
she said 'so i'll put you down as refused then shall i?'
i said 'no i dont want you to put me down as anything.'
she then said she didnt want to get into a row with me,
i told her to 'go away'.and closed the door.

as far as i'm concerned, if it requires my signature, its a contract.
a legally binding doccument.

i dont care what machinations are on the other side of it,
or if its presented in a unique and refreshing way, its a contract.

i wish more people would realise the implications of soveriegnty.
we know that they are starting to chip away at it, and that at some point,
they will attempt to get us to give it up entirely, thats where they are heading.
if we get a grip on it now, it could be a major spanner in the works for them,
we could..... dare i say it.... head them off at the pass.

(post edited because i'd calmed down)

Good work on not playing the game.
It is better to put the ball into their court by not making statments.
When they say you have to do it, you can say to them, I would be happy to, if I know what I was agreeing to.
Or, Do you have any evidence that this is mandatory?
Best of all, you can withdraw all lisence, implied and expressed for her and anyone else to enter your property in regards to the census.
Then they are cactus.

Guys...there’s how you think it is and then there's how it is. I've done the census. I've read every word of it. The completion of the census is mandatory. Mandatory in the same way a 30MPH limit is mandatory. Get it?

It also says plainly above the box for your signature...that you are signing to say the information you have given is true to the best of your ability. There is no contract to debate because, in theory, you've no option but to fill it in. In theory your not supposed to do 70 in a 30 either.

Oh! and another thing...we are not sovereign in the UK. We are subjects of her majesty the Queen. :)

Mandatory for whom? Persons? Are YOU a person?
Your choice of example fails you, the speed limit and ''road rules'' are indeed part of a contract that you agreed to when you got the drivers lisence.
Your last sentence speaks of the slave mentality. Sorry to put it like that, but that is what it is.



Guys...there’s how you think it is and then there's how it is. I've done the census. I've read every word of it. The completion of the census is mandatory. Mandatory in the same way a 30MPH limit is mandatory. Get it?

Oh come on Please. I mean no disrespect here but really? mandatory
As I told my boss not 18 months ago when being told I had to do something. the only thing mandatory for me is to breath everything else is optional. consequences for my actions sure I accept them, but don't tell me it's mandatory, that's for me to choose.

If everyone removes their consent they are powerless. you just need to have the balls to accept the consequences of your actions

I wish there were more people with this realisation.
When I have particapated in people learning the type of law I have posted about, I see most need the operation before they can use it.
They need their wishbones removed and a backbone inserted. You don't, you have one.
I like your attitude.




Guys...there’s how you think it is and then there's how it is. I've done the census. I've read every word of it. The completion of the census is mandatory. Mandatory in the same way a 30MPH limit is mandatory. Get it?

Oh come on Please. I mean no disrespect here but really? mandatory
As I told my boss not 18 months ago when being told I had to do something. the only thing mandatory for me is to breath everything else is optional. consequences for my actions sure I except them, but don't tell me it's mandatory, that's for me to choose.

If everyone removes their consent they are powerless. you just need to have the balls to except the consequences of your actions

Although I agree with you...to the point to say that even breathing is optional, you've kinda missed my point. Set aside the fact that the word "mandatory" is on the census form, my point was saying that it's (the census) not a contract as others were arguing. "Theoretically" you have no choice in the matter.

So the word mandatory is on the form. And?
You believed it?
What does that word mean at law for the purposes of the census?

You obviously don't understand a word I've said. Stop coming across like a delusional fantasist and reread my point.... In short it's this....

There is NO contract. A contract is for the mutual benefit of one or more parties.

My point really is as plain and simple as that. I'm not advocating "you must" or any such nonsense that you seem to think I imply.

[SteveX]

"Theoretically" you have no choice in the matter.
Steve that's the illusion, you always have a choice, they just make you think you don't

Free will my friend.

theo·reti·cal·ly adv.
Synonyms: theoretical, abstract, academic, hypothetical, speculative
These adjectives mean concerned primarily with theories or hypotheses rather than practical considerations: theoretical linguistics; abstract reasoning; a purely academic discussion; a hypothetical statement; speculative knowledge.

Nuff said :)

[SteveX]

-----

I may be naive here, and I'm sure the question has already been asked... but the fact is that the census asks you to confirm your name & address, and no doubt to sign to say you understand etc... That makes it a contract, and a contract can only be entered into by willing parties - ie you can't be forced to enter into/sign a contract.

You’d like to think so but no. The census is mandatory. You are merle signing to say that it is true (what you filled in) to the best of your knowledge.

No, he is right, this is indeed a contract to perform.
Why do you think they fine you for non performance?


ive just had a visit from a woman.

she said she was from the census.
i told her that as far as i was concerned it was a contract and i wanted no part in it.
i closed the door.
she said 'NO, sorry, you DO have to do it'
and i said
'no-one can force me to take part in a contractual agreement'
she said 'so i'll put you down as refused then shall i?'
i said 'no i dont want you to put me down as anything.'
she then said she didnt want to get into a row with me,
i told her to 'go away'.and closed the door.

as far as i'm concerned, if it requires my signature, its a contract.
a legally binding doccument.

i dont care what machinations are on the other side of it,
or if its presented in a unique and refreshing way, its a contract.

i wish more people would realise the implications of soveriegnty.
we know that they are starting to chip away at it, and that at some point,
they will attempt to get us to give it up entirely, thats where they are heading.
if we get a grip on it now, it could be a major spanner in the works for them,
we could..... dare i say it.... head them off at the pass.

(post edited because i'd calmed down)

Good work on not playing the game.
It is better to put the ball into their court by not making statments.
When they say you have to do it, you can say to them, I would be happy to, if I know what I was agreeing to.
Or, Do you have any evidence that this is mandatory?
Best of all, you can withdraw all lisence, implied and expressed for her and anyone else to enter your property in regards to the census.
Then they are cactus.

Guys...there’s how you think it is and then there's how it is. I've done the census. I've read every word of it. The completion of the census is mandatory. Mandatory in the same way a 30MPH limit is mandatory. Get it?

It also says plainly above the box for your signature...that you are signing to say the information you have given is true to the best of your ability. There is no contract to debate because, in theory, you've no option but to fill it in. In theory your not supposed to do 70 in a 30 either.

Oh! and another thing...we are not sovereign in the UK. We are subjects of her majesty the Queen. :)

Thanks for the advice, Steve. Makes me want to just bend over and take my state-sponsored medicine like the slave I am. Guess I'll be seeing you in the queue for the microchip which will also, no doubt, be "mandatory"?

Good job Ghandi didn't say to those millions of Indians, "sorry guys, the British say it's mandatory so let's just get on with it..."

What advise? I've given no advice. I've explained what a contract is. I suggest you go reread what I've written. It seems you and others are taking my words out of context.

[Lord Sidious]

However, my argument is about the miss use of the term "contract". A contract is a legally enforceable agreement between two or more parties with mutual obligations. There is no MUTUAL obligation. There is no contract in completion of the census because you are TOLD to complete it. What you are signing for is to confirm that the information you submitted is true. You are NOT getting a mutual benefit by adding your signature. Therefore it is NOT a contract.

Personally I don't give two hoots what individuals do or don't do with the census. What ticks me off is when folk try and blow it up to a thing that it isn't. There's one thing to argue the point of the census but please argue it on a factual point.


-----

Steve

1. Why did you complete the census?
2. What is the point of it?

DP

1) I completed the census for a couple of reasons. Firstly, there's nothing I added to the census that TPTB, should I flag up on their dar, couldn't find out in a day. Secondly I quite like the idea of some historian or distant relative looking up the info in a hundred years time. I can see em now..."WTF is an ambulance chacers assistant"

2) The point of the census is to plan infrastructure for the future. That's what they say and I don't think it's anymore sinister than that. Personally I'd like em to catch a load of illegals but they won't, they'll plan infrastructure to house and school the B*****s.

I would suggest that you might want to read up a bit, it is indeed a contract.
Mutual obligations aren't always a linchpin in a contract, especially when the government and/or it's agents are the superior party in the contract.
Oh and the census is not just for calculating infrastructure, it is for more things than that. The most important being a form of ''stock take'' on the human collateral they have in their jurisdiction.
Have a look around you. Is your infrastructure in good condition? Is there enough for everyone? Or is that just down to poor planning?



Secondly I quite like the idea of some historian or distant relative looking up the info in a hundred years time. I can see em now..."WTF is an ambulance chacers assistant"

chortle...

Dont forget though that History is written by the victors. Winston Churchill, so perhaps ambulance chaser's assistant may one day read:- useless eater :eek:

And yes, I am sure we can all agree that a reason would be to assess the populace and the gravity of the depletion of their precious resources...... I'd stlll say: up yours!



I WOULD L♥VE NUGGET RADIO!!!!!!


how can I help?

Go onto the thread and post about how you would like to have a radio station and if you were wanting to, how you would participate.

[freespirit]

There is one question on the form which is bugging me..

'H4. Who is going to be staying with you on the 27 March 2011 ?'

What business is it to anybody who stays at my house overnight.I will be sending the partially filled out form 12 days before the deadline.

[Jake]

Stop coming across like a delusional fantasist

SteveX, please refrain from name calling. It is not consistent with the vision of Avalon, and it is just not fun to read. Feel free to engage, using more respectful dialogue.
Thank you. :):)

[Realeyes]

We escaped the census 10 years ago - sent the many door knockers packing saying we had posted it and they needed to sort it out their end.

My Hubby this time didn't want the hastle and filled it in with our family names etc...Grrrrrr. I didn't want anything to do with it, but after the due date passed for sending it back I had days and days of hubby giving me his stern looks to fill it in placing it all around the house for me to see. I gave in eventually to keep the peace and answered just 1 question putting myself down as a 'Jedi Warrior' - LOL! I am not sure what they will make of that but apparently it is a very popular answer here in the UK. ;)

If they knock on my door I will tell them that i am only answerable to the true 'Force'! I must dig out my old Star Wars videos and brush up on it - LOL!

[Lord Sidious]

There is one question on the form which is bugging me..

'H4. Who is going to be staying with you on the 27 March 2011 ?'

What business is it to anybody who stays at my house overnight.I will be sending the partially filled out form 12 days before the deadline.

The easter bunny is early this year and santa claus is still here.
I can't get the bugger to go home, he likes my milk and cookies too much.
Oh, and before I forget, I found Lord Lucan, he is here too.

[Fred259]

There is one question on the form which is bugging me..

'H4. Who is going to be staying with you on the 27 March 2011 ?'

What business is it to anybody who stays at my house overnight.I will be sending the partially filled out form 12 days before the deadline.


Precisely,

It’s no different than the government wanting to look in your underwear before you board a flight.

It’s a Fu***** Abomination.

[Jayke]

I dispute the use of the word "refuse" in the title. That will be more evident once the follow-up crews have actually been around to see people who didnt make the return.

Agreed, that's why I had to put the words 'on census day' into the thread title. I have seen a lot of people putting their census envelopes into post boxes this past week. What's better though 7 million people apathetic to the system or 7 million people who buy into the system and do everything the system tells them. That's potentially 7 million people who are prepared to embrace a new vision of government if something better was presented to them...which is still a positive pointer that more people are waking up in my mind.

[Fred259]

It’s interesting that members think the census is all about planning infrastructure. Maybe they are right. But one moment, we had a census ten years ago so what has changed in the infrastructure in the last ten years? New railway lines? Have any new airports been built? What about seaports? Motorways? The infrastructure has changed very little in the last ten years in reality.

All the information required on the census form is readily available to the government in triplicate already.

When a women or girl conceives, she visits the doctor. Immediately her pregnancy is registered and recorded and the doctor is responsible for her wellbeing. If the pregnancy doesn’t go to term the doctor is still around to manage her wellbeing, if it does she moves to the maternity unit where again every aspect of childbirth is recorded.

The same happens at the other end of life; all deaths are recorded and certified by a doctor. Therefore a simple XL spreadsheet is required together with a reporting system and a 16 year old YTS student could record this information daily. By 12.00 midday the information will be available for the minister, for these vital infrastructure changes that are planned yet never see the light of day.

It’s all complete balderdash.

The United Kingdom is now a dictatorship. Anyone who thinks otherwise is either too young to remember, or they are not sufficiently interested to bother.

The Labour party leader John Smith died from a massive heart attack after eating a bowl of asparagus soup. This paved the way for Tony Blair to steal power. Blair was from the Fabian wing of the Labour party. John Smith was a true socialist. The two are very different. When Smith attended the Bilderberg group meeting he didn’t understand its function or purpose. It’s widely reported that he said he would return the following year and bring “his advisor”.

The following year a new man attended the Bilderberg group meeting, and following Blair’s election landslide an infestation of Fabian Marxists strolled down Downing Street. 77% of Blair’s cabinet and those in senior positions within government had links or affiliations with International Marxist Group (IMG), or Communist Party Great Britain, (CPGB)

Over the last decade the country has been systematically destroyed in every respect. Ideology and control was infused into government policy from abominable people like Geoff Mulgan a Marxist and the subversive Marxist Julia Middleton and her Common Purpose organisation who were working directly from the office of the deputy Prime Minister (ODPM)



Many of us who were actively involved in exposing this Marxist infestation, took heart in the fact that a new conservative government would remove Common Purpose from Society and that we might start to see a return to normality. However in reality David Cameron’s administration is in fact worse that the New Labour.

The subversive Julia Middleton continues to work with full and free control over every aspect of Government and society in the United Kingdom. We now have a Conservative Prime Minister who regards his role models as Tony Blair, Gordon Brown and Obama’s Guru Saul Alinsky.

Conservative MP’s who started to question policy were told in no uncertain terms by the communitarian Prime Minister David Cameron “You just have to accept and put up with the “New World Order” An utter abomination.

The European Union the unelected body who now control the United Kingdom recently abolished the death penalty in all EU member states. A short time later they quietly brought back the death penalty for those who speak out or seek to destroy the dictatorship they have created.

Manchester International Airport is used as a testing centre probably by those who were top of the class from the Tavistock Institute, testing and evaluating a multitude of surveillance technologies. In #44 in this thread I copied and pasted KT Light previous post relating to the one billion USD contract awarded to Lockheed Martin whose job is to data capture the biometric data of every single United States citizen.

Lockheed Martin was also responsible for the UK census and it’s my view this is the purpose of the census. Does this not confirm that the banking & military industrial complex is in control of the state.


It’s an apocalyptic nightmare.

I join a radio show every Thursday broadcasting from the US. The general opinion is that the US and Canada will go through “turbulence” but will eventually overcome the issues that we all face. When I asked about the rising power of the state, Americans were very clear about this and point out that the people are very were heavily armed.

I find these comments amusing, and often chuckle when I see them on internet forums. My favorite is “time to lock and load folks” and “The shelves in Wal-Mart are empty of ammo” Unfortunately we don’t have this option in the United Kingdom, and therefore have no bargaining power. We are therefore lambs to the slaughter.

[Jayke]

We escaped the census 10 years ago - sent the many door knockers packing saying we had posted it and they needed to sort it out their end.

My Hubby this time didn't want the hastle and filled it in with our family names etc...Grrrrrr. I didn't want anything to do with it, but after the due date passed for sending it back I had days and days of hubby giving me his stern looks to fill it in placing it all around the house for me to see. I gave in eventually to keep the peace and answered just 1 question putting myself down as a 'Jedi Warrior' - LOL! I am not sure what they will make of that but apparently it is a very popular answer here in the UK. ;)

If they knock on my door I will tell them that i am only answerable to the true 'Force'! I must dig out my old Star Wars videos and brush up on it - LOL!

I know a lot of people at my work who put Jedi lol although i find it interesting that the Jedi were around long before George Lucas made a film about them... they were originally called djedi and date back to egypt (maybe even Atlantis), probably one of the reasons why the government can't argue with you if you state jedi in your form...check the article below to flesh out the details as to the validity of the Jedi as a religious choice.

http://www.examiner.com/alternative-religions-in-national/the-jedi-religion-and-the-force

[ViralSpiral]

and answered just 1 question putting myself down as a 'Jedi Warrior' - LOL! I am not sure what they will make of that but apparently it is a very popular answer here in the UK. ;)

If they knock on my door I will tell them that i am only answerable to the true 'Force'! I must dig out my old Star Wars videos and brush up on it - LOL!


This warms the cockles!! Thank you for the falls-off-chair laughter! Star-wars-r-us :D

[SteveX]

Stop coming across like a delusional fantasist

SteveX, please refrain from name calling. It is not consistent with the vision of Avalon, and it is just not fun to read. Feel free to engage, using more respectful dialogue.
Thank you. :):)


Point taken




However, my argument is about the miss use of the term "contract". A contract is a legally enforceable agreement between two or more parties with mutual obligations. There is no MUTUAL obligation. There is no contract in completion of the census because you are TOLD to complete it. What you are signing for is to confirm that the information you submitted is true. You are NOT getting a mutual benefit by adding your signature. Therefore it is NOT a contract.

Personally I don't give two hoots what individuals do or don't do with the census. What ticks me off is when folk try and blow it up to a thing that it isn't. There's one thing to argue the point of the census but please argue it on a factual point.


-----

Steve

1. Why did you complete the census?
2. What is the point of it?

DP

1) I completed the census for a couple of reasons. Firstly, there's nothing I added to the census that TPTB, should I flag up on their dar, couldn't find out in a day. Secondly I quite like the idea of some historian or distant relative looking up the info in a hundred years time. I can see em now..."WTF is an ambulance chacers assistant"

2) The point of the census is to plan infrastructure for the future. That's what they say and I don't think it's anymore sinister than that. Personally I'd like em to catch a load of illegals but they won't, they'll plan infrastructure to house and school the B*****s.

I would suggest that you might want to read up a bit, it is indeed a contract.
Mutual obligations aren't always a linchpin in a contract, especially when the government and/or it's agents are the superior party in the contract.
Oh and the census is not just for calculating infrastructure, it is for more things than that. The most important being a form of ''stock take'' on the human collateral they have in their jurisdiction.
Have a look around you. Is your infrastructure in good condition? Is there enough for everyone? Or is that just down to poor planning?


The census might be a lot of things but it isn't a contract. It alludes me as to why you and others are putting this distorted and unarguable spin on it. The word "contract" is easy enough to understand. So is the word "mandatory" which, in the world according to Lord Sidious, negates "contract".

[Lord Sidious]

Stop coming across like a delusional fantasist

SteveX, please refrain from name calling. It is not consistent with the vision of Avalon, and it is just not fun to read. Feel free to engage, using more respectful dialogue.
Thank you. :):)


Point taken




However, my argument is about the miss use of the term "contract". A contract is a legally enforceable agreement between two or more parties with mutual obligations. There is no MUTUAL obligation. There is no contract in completion of the census because you are TOLD to complete it. What you are signing for is to confirm that the information you submitted is true. You are NOT getting a mutual benefit by adding your signature. Therefore it is NOT a contract.

Personally I don't give two hoots what individuals do or don't do with the census. What ticks me off is when folk try and blow it up to a thing that it isn't. There's one thing to argue the point of the census but please argue it on a factual point.


-----

Steve

1. Why did you complete the census?
2. What is the point of it?

DP

1) I completed the census for a couple of reasons. Firstly, there's nothing I added to the census that TPTB, should I flag up on their dar, couldn't find out in a day. Secondly I quite like the idea of some historian or distant relative looking up the info in a hundred years time. I can see em now..."WTF is an ambulance chacers assistant"

2) The point of the census is to plan infrastructure for the future. That's what they say and I don't think it's anymore sinister than that. Personally I'd like em to catch a load of illegals but they won't, they'll plan infrastructure to house and school the B*****s.

I would suggest that you might want to read up a bit, it is indeed a contract.
Mutual obligations aren't always a linchpin in a contract, especially when the government and/or it's agents are the superior party in the contract.
Oh and the census is not just for calculating infrastructure, it is for more things than that. The most important being a form of ''stock take'' on the human collateral they have in their jurisdiction.
Have a look around you. Is your infrastructure in good condition? Is there enough for everyone? Or is that just down to poor planning?


The census might be a lot of things but it isn't a contract. It alludes me as to why you and others are putting this distorted and unarguable spin on it. The word "contract" is easy enough to understand. So is the word "mandatory" which, in the world according to Lord Sidious, negates "contract".

So you didn't get what Jake said then?
If you want to debate, by all means do so, but if you are going to have an attitude, you can sod off.

[SteveX]

Stop coming across like a delusional fantasist

SteveX, please refrain from name calling. It is not consistent with the vision of Avalon, and it is just not fun to read. Feel free to engage, using more respectful dialogue.
Thank you. :):)


Point taken




However, my argument is about the miss use of the term "contract". A contract is a legally enforceable agreement between two or more parties with mutual obligations. There is no MUTUAL obligation. There is no contract in completion of the census because you are TOLD to complete it. What you are signing for is to confirm that the information you submitted is true. You are NOT getting a mutual benefit by adding your signature. Therefore it is NOT a contract.

Personally I don't give two hoots what individuals do or don't do with the census. What ticks me off is when folk try and blow it up to a thing that it isn't. There's one thing to argue the point of the census but please argue it on a factual point.


-----

Steve

1. Why did you complete the census?
2. What is the point of it?

DP

1) I completed the census for a couple of reasons. Firstly, there's nothing I added to the census that TPTB, should I flag up on their dar, couldn't find out in a day. Secondly I quite like the idea of some historian or distant relative looking up the info in a hundred years time. I can see em now..."WTF is an ambulance chacers assistant"

2) The point of the census is to plan infrastructure for the future. That's what they say and I don't think it's anymore sinister than that. Personally I'd like em to catch a load of illegals but they won't, they'll plan infrastructure to house and school the B*****s.

I would suggest that you might want to read up a bit, it is indeed a contract.
Mutual obligations aren't always a linchpin in a contract, especially when the government and/or it's agents are the superior party in the contract.
Oh and the census is not just for calculating infrastructure, it is for more things than that. The most important being a form of ''stock take'' on the human collateral they have in their jurisdiction.
Have a look around you. Is your infrastructure in good condition? Is there enough for everyone? Or is that just down to poor planning?


The census might be a lot of things but it isn't a contract. It alludes me as to why you and others are putting this distorted and unarguable spin on it. The word "contract" is easy enough to understand. So is the word "mandatory" which, in the world according to Lord Sidious, negates "contract".

So you didn't get what Jake said then?
If you want to debate, by all means do so, but if you are going to have an attitude, you can sod off.

This is almost laughable...cause I understood what Jake said. It seems to me you think he said something else. As to the census ...yes it’s a stock check and yes it could be used in nefarious ways but my point was it isn't a contract per sa. To argue otherwise is redundant but I'll tell you what...I'll stick to my version of what a contract is and you can, by all means, stick to your version. There's no need to reply

[Peacelovinman]

A friend sent me this - use as you see fit, or not,if you prefer!

Lockheed Martin have committed crimes against humanity by manufacturing and selling weapons of mass destruction, which kill millions of innocent men women and children. Lockheed Martin fits our own governments interpretation of what is a terrorist group.
Under the Prevention of Terrorism Act 2002, it is an offence to cohort with a terrorist or terrorist group. Therefore, it could be argued that anyone completing and signing the census form is committing an act of treason.
Interestingly, even local village magazines are requesting "volunteers" from the public who will help by visiting people who havent filled in their census forms.


Some people are choosing to send off a conditional acceptance with the following:
Ms Jil Mateson,
C.E.O. Office for National Statistics
Government Buildings
Cardiff Road
Newport
South Wales
NP10 8XG

Notice of Conditional Acceptance and Request for Clarification


Dear Ms Matheson,

I write in response to the Census Form. I must admit to being a little confused, it was my understanding that the census was instigated as a simple numerical count of the population; however, the information required in this census form far exceeds this mandate.

I have personally experienced a loss of my data while it has supposedly been securely managed by government departments such as the NHS, DWP, CSA, HMRC and the Passport Agency; officials or those contracted with the security of that data on a number of occasions so you will understand that I have concerns about the ONS’s ability to safeguard the personal data it is requesting.

I am happy to complete this census form subject to receipt of clarification of the following points:

1. What law requires me to complete the census?

2. From where does the Office for National Statistics derive the lawful authority to demand private information and whether the details of the 2011 Census will be made available to all member states of the European Union.[HL6704]

3. Is there a limit to invasion of privacy?

4. Is the Office for National Statistics lawfully authorised to demand Private property?

5. How can we be penalised for failure to provide information?

6. Are there any circumstances whereby security agencies may access census information as suggested by section 39, subsection 4 of the Statistics and Registration Service Act 2007?

7. Since census data be requested by law enforcement, can I not answer so as to not to incriminate myself?

8. Since every government database has been hacked, leaked, lost or compromised in some fashion, how can the Office for National Statistics claim data security with any confidence?

9. Is the Office for National Statistics responsible for mishandled data?

10. What evidence do you have that I am a United Kingdom Resident?

11. Can you confirm or deny that the spiralling cost estimate of almost £500million spent at a time of national austerity is considered by the ONS to be wholly justifiable and appropriate.

12. Can you confirm or deny that the expenditure of £4.5million of tax-payers money in order to “advertise” the census is wholly appropriate and necessary at a time of national austerity.

13. Can you confirm or deny that the Cabinet minister responsible for the census, Francis Maude, more or less admits that this census is unnecessary in this day and age and that the census is going ahead despite the government’s tacit admittance that it is a waste of money and time.

14. Can you confirm or deny that the ONS spent nearly £70,000 on reviewing whether the census form should include a “tick box” for those of Kashmiri ethnicity and that such a tick box was rejected due to “little interest” and that the resulting expenditure constitutes a complete waste of tax-payers money.

15. Can you confirm or deny that the ONS is spending in the region of £25,000 per week or approximately £9.5million over a ten month period on community advisors to “encourage” participation in the census and can you confirm that the ONS considers that this constitutes a wholly justifiable and appropriate expenditure of tax-payers money.

16. Can you confirm or deny that the ONS are, through these advisors, hoping to encourage participation in the census through dialogue with members of community and representative organisations in order to “engage” the communities represented by those organisations and that the encouragement through engagement is unnecessary as the ONS claims that participation in the census is mandatory and that a response is “required by law” and please also confirm that in engaging communities in this fashion that the ONS are guilty of discrimination against communities who do not have such “representative organisations” through which to engage.

17. Can you confirm or deny that the census data will be handled by an US arms manufacturer Lockheed Martin?

18. Can you confirm or deny that Lockheed Martin have in the past been charged with illegally spying on UK citizens.

19. Can you confirm or deny that Lockheed Martin works with the CIA and FBI and that they have a lengthy record of crimes against humanity.

20. Can you confirm or deny that while it may be illegal for UK intelligence agencies to spy on the population without a warrant that it is not illegal for US intelligence services to spy on the UK population with such a warrant.

21. Given their track record for such actions can you confirm or deny that Lockheed Martin have not in the case of the census consultancy paid bribes to individuals in order to secure the contract.

22. It is suggested that Lockheed Martin have no moral fibre, social conscience or scruples and it is further suggested that they are one of the most disreputable companies in the world – can you confirm or deny this.

23. It is suggested that thousands of law suits have been filed against Lockheed Martin for everything from racial discrimination to fraud. If this were the case, it would prevent them from fulfilling their contract with the ONS – can you confirm or deny this.

24. It is reported that Lockheed Martin have “lobbied” for the illegal war in Iraq and that they have been the main arms suppliers to the wars in Afghanistan, Iraq and Palestine thus making them responsible for the deaths of millions of human beings – can you confirm or deny this.

25. In a news report published by the Mail Online, it is show that personal details collection in your census will be processed in a plant run by an American firm, staff of which was prosecuted for stealing student loan records of US President Obama.

26. In a news report published by the Mail on Sunday shows that the company UK Data Capture Limited named as the sub contractor in charge of processing census information is jointly owned by the examination board Edexcel and US-owned firm Vangent which are both regarded as having “patchy” records for data handling – can you confirm or deny this.

27. Can you confirm or deny that Edexcel was criticised by in 2002 by then Prime Minister Blair for a series of errors when he described the company as “sloppy” and “unacceptable”.

28. Can you confirm or deny that the Office for National Statistics considers these companies as acceptable agents for the handling of private statistical information of the British people.

29. Can you confirm or deny that the personal data collected by your census will not be sold, given, loaned or in any other way disseminated to companies offering online “directory” services such as 192.com or hard copy based directory services such as Yellow Pages or Thomson Local or any similar or associated organisations.

30. Can you confirm or deny that all U.S. companies are subject to the Patriot Act which allows the U.S. Government full access to any data in that company’s possession?

31. It is claimed that only staff who work for the ONS will have access to the “full census dataset”; please confirm or deny that it would not be possible for several members of ONS staff (each having access to separate datasets) might not collude in order to collect together a full dataset of information in contravention to the security measures supposedly put in place.

32. In a Press Briefing dated 14 January 2011 it is stated that “additional contractual and operation safeguards” have been put in place to address concerns about the possibility of the US Patriot Act being used by US intelligence services to gain access to data – please list these contractual and operational safeguards.

33. In a Press Briefing dated 14 January 2011 it is stated that only UK/EU owned companies will have access to personal census data – please confirm or deny that there may be UK/EU companies that are subsidiaries of US corporations that may circumnavigate the assurances provided by the Office for National Statistics and the contract between Lockheed Martin UK and so allow access to personal census data under the US Patriot Act.

34. In a Press Briefing dated 14 January 2011 it is stated that independent checks by an “accredited UK security consultancy” of both physical and electronic security are carried out for ONS – please provide;
a) the name of the accredited UK security consultancy;
b) provide references that confirm their accreditation as well as;
c) details of the body with whom they are accredited.

35. In a Press Briefing dated 14 January 2011 it is stated that 1,500 jobs have been “created” by the award of the contract to Lockheed Martin UK. Please provide details of;
a) how many of these jobs will exist on completion of the contract;
b) what percentage of these jobs have been given to the long-term unemployed;
c) what percentage of these jobs have been given to disabled people and,
d) what percentage of these jobs are given to other than UK citizens and,
e) what checks were made to ensure that they have the right to work in the UK (e.g. a Passport, a Visa or work permit for non nationals).

36. In a Press Briefing dated 14 January 2011 it is stated that 1,500 jobs have been “created” by the award of the contract to Lockheed Martin UK. Provide details of;
a) the training that has been provided to these 1,500 new employees to ensure that security measures are understood and met;
b) the rights that employees have to request time off for study or training, i.e. ‘time to train’;

37. In a Press Briefing dated 14 January 2011 it is stated “the contract has created around 1,500 jobs in the UK”. Provide details of:
a) what background checks have been carried out to ensure compliance with rules governing “security related jobs”;
b) details of the equal opportunities policies pertaining to the pre-employment checks as required by Employment law;
c) details of the rights and benefits of those being employed for the duration of the contract; and
d) the details of any severance package applicable to those staff who will lose their job at the end of the contract;
e) the rights offered to staff under the “flexible working rule”;
f) if flexible working includes the provision to “work from home”, what additional safeguards are in place to ensure the integrity and security of the personal census data under such circumstances;
g) the benefits offered to staff for maternity and paternity leave during the course of the contract;
h) confirmation or denial that the ONS conform to the “working time limit” requirements under Employment Law;
i) confirm under what conditions a contract of employment may be changed; i. agreement between the ONS and the employee, ii. collective agreement, or iii. by implication.

38. In a Press Briefing dated 14 January 2011 it is stated that the contract was awarded by ONS to Lockheed Martin UK as it “offered the best value for money” in an “open procurement scheme” carried out “under European Law”. Please provide,
a) details of how Lockheed Martin UK offered the best value for money by providing a table of the results of the tendering process;
b) details of the open procurement scheme used and,
c) the European Law under which the procurement scheme was carried out.

39. In a Press Briefing dated 14 January 2011 it is stated that a “number of specialist companies” are being used by ONS to “provide specific services for the census”. Please provide;
a) details of the specialist companies being used and
b) the specific services being offered by those companies.

40. In a Press Briefing dated 14 January 2011 it is stated “the contract has created around 1,500 jobs in the UK”. Please provide the following;
a) which agency was used for the criminal records checks (CRB ) on each of these staff;
b) the net cost per CRB check per head;
c) provide the registration number that the ONS has with the Criminal Records Bureau.

41. In a Press Briefing dated 14 January 2011 it is stated “the contract has created around 1,500 jobs in the UK”. Please state how the data protection issues of these staff and their “secure employment records” are to be stored in compliance with the principles of the Data Protection Act 1998.

42. Can you confirm or deny that the Statistics and Registration Service Act 2007 section 39 subsection 4 would allow disclosure of personal information to any and/or all of the following:
a) The 56 geographical and 8 non-geographical UK Police Forces and in particular the Devon and Cornwall Police who are currently owned by the corporation known as International Business Machines (IBM).
b) The three UK Intelligence Agencies (MI5, MI6 and GCHQ).
c) The Department for Work and Pensions.
d) Private investigator working for the Department for Work and Pensions to hunt down alleged benefits cheats?
e) Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs tax investigators.
f) “Approved” Insurance Industry “anti-fraud” investigators / private investigators.
g) The Home Office Borders and Immigration Agency.
h) The Serious Organised Crime Agency (either for domestic investigations into Serious Crimes, or for these and also for minor investigations if requested by a Foreign Law Enforcement agency under Mutual Legal Assistance treaties.
i) Lawyers in civil Court Cases e.g. for Divorce or Libel or Copyright Infringement etc.
j) Local Authority Trading Standards departments.
k) Local Authority Environmental Health departments.

Please Note:

Under the provisions of Regulation (EC) No. 763/2008 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 9 July 2008 on population and housing censuses, the UK and all other member states are required to make available to Eurostat, by the end of March 2014, a set of standardised statistical outputs derived from a census or comparable statistical sources relating to the year 2011. The specific form and content of these tabulations are set out in two Commission Regulations, (EC) No. 1201/2009 of 30 November 2009 and (EU) No. 519/2010 of 16 June 2010. The National Statistician will use statistical data from the 2011 Census to meet this obligation on behalf of the UK. So when will the data be buried for 100 years and who by?


Please provide your response(s) in the form of a Statement of Truth, sworn under penalty of perjury and upon your full commercial liability within seven (7) days of receipt of this notice, I will retain the census form in the meantime.

If I do not receive such a response conforming to the above criteria within this period, it will be deemed a tacit agreement by your acquiescence that this census is unlawful and that I have no obligation to participate and I shall return your census form to you for safe disposal.

Sincerely without malice, ill will, vexation or frivolity,
: of the Family

[shijo]

dont do it, I dare you

i aint going to dont worry,regards shijo.

[SteveX]

lol Peacelovinman. Thats a cracker. I'd love to see a reply

[Peacelovinman]

lol Peacelovinman. Thats a cracker. I'd love to see a reply

Yes, it made me giggle. One suspects the chances of receiving a reply are on the slim side!

[FutureLeFunk]

Just one flower is worth more than all of their words and definitions!

Reasonable assumptions................... orly!

They assume too much.

Competent...... pfft!

They have to make up money to prove their competence..........

*edit* OK! I take it all back. Please can you fix my landline and adsl.................. Mobile broadband! :p lol

[SteveX]

lol Peacelovinman. Thats a cracker. I'd love to see a reply

Yes, it made me giggle. One suspects the chances of receiving a reply are on the slim side!

Yer, they will cover their arses with the data protection act but some of those question are legit.

[ViralSpiral]

dont do it, I dare you

i aint going to dont worry,regards shijo.

wÖÖt wÖÖt !!!!

Thank you SO much Peacelovin, I am filing under "definitely needed to know this"!

Picked up another pearler in this thread..... Mr Robert J Stephens! I checked him out. Here is his glowing Curriculum Vitae http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_J._Stevens

He is a member of the Council on Foreign Relations /oops



am still chuckling at this:
how do you expect Dec21 2012 to affect your Christmas shopping