Dont talk about your feelings...Kill yourself instead!

[Ross]

You dont talk about your feelings...its taboo, so you kill yourself instead, when it becomes to much to bear...this is whats emerging out of evacuation zone's in Japan with residents....

Japan has next to no policy of "talking about your issues" thus leading to 30,000+ taking their own lives in Japan, per year...

Their answer is, go to Doctors and receive anti-depressant Meds and "keep your mouth shut"!

In all the evacuation centers, and eveywhere they can stick it, are signs saying " stay strong" stay tough"...nobody, is willing to discuss their truama, it's taboo to look weak...FFS...

This kind of "hush hush" shows its face in all areas of Japans society...most recent case is the "low key" information release of the Fukushima tragedy. You do not admit anything! until you have nowhere else to turn!

Hopefully, this Event will drag out the "deep seated" resentment and the true ramifications of this societies mindset...of keeping things bottled up.

Ross.

[SKIBADABOMSKI]

This side of the japanese has always interested me. Like with the homeless here, they won't ask for help and obviously don't have it in them to commit suicide so they simply just become lost souls. If you went to the last stop on the train to Mt. Fuji you'll not have to wait too long before you'd see some doomed looking individual who'll be making his one way journey into the suicide forest at the base of the mountain.

Dam, there is loads I can say on this topic but I'm at the airport.. will post more later on.

Interesting topic Ross

Ski-

[sandy]

Boy Ross you said a mouthful :)

Until feelings and expressing them freely become the norm rather than suppressing them , the world will continue to disintegrate IMHO. How can one gain compassion without the aid of feeling and understanding their own emotions. How can one understand their own emotions and those of others if sharing them maintains such a taboo, especially the deeper and more vulnerable emotions.

Thoughts lead to feelings and feelings lead to behavior>>>>>>>>so if we are not in tune with what we are thinking and feeling then we sure are not on top of how we present ourselves either...................................We really need to be conscious of all three domains as they are so interrelated.

Thanks for this post as I believe our feelings have the greatest frequency of all our bodies energies. Feelings are our radar system and give us experiences of great joy and pain and a plethora in between but are their for us to learn about ourselves, others and the world around us. Too bad this isn't something readily facilitated from birth as we have it naturally, but alas in many societies it is to soon squashed, admonished and made taboo. SAD :-(

[Teakai]

The Japanese don't view suicide as being taboo as our soceity does. They see it as a form of honour.

I'm only pointing this out so that we don't base what they do on our own particular understanding.

[Ross]

The Japanese don't view suicide as being taboo as our soceity does. They see it as a form of honour.

I'm only pointing this out so that we don't base what they do on our own particular understanding.

Yes I agree, but that was the older culture. These days many of the reported 30,000+ who take their lives are doing so for reason beyond that of honour, they do not encourage "opening up" your feelings, trauma, social disfunction ect, its like the old culture, of not speaking up (not viewed as honourable to speak out), versus the modern world and subsequent social suppression.

You bury your emotions, you will manifest your un-balance as a being, and with nowhere to turn other than "pharma" meds often it becomes to much to bear...

Worthy to note: Most of the suicides occur in the cities. Rural areas and mostly the older generations, rely on natural products such as herbs and the like, for helping in many health issues, but again, they also do not speak up about emotional issues.

Ross

[Ross]

The cultural heritage of suicide as a noble tradition still has some resonance. While being investigated for an expenses scandal, Cabinet minister Toshikatsu Matsuoka took his life in 2007. The governor of Tokyo, Shintaro Ishihara, described him as a "true samurai" for preserving his honour. Ishihara is also the author of the film "I go to die for you" which glorifies the memory and bravery of the kamikaze pilots in WWII.

Typically most suicides are men; over 71% of suicide victims in 2007 were male. In 2009, the number of suicides among men rose 641 to 23,472 (with those age 40–69 accounting for 40.8% of the total). Suicide was the leading cause of death among men age 20–44. Males are two times more likely to cause their own deaths after a divorce than females. Nevertheless, suicide is still the leading cause of death for women age 15–34 in Japan.

The rate of suicides has also increased among those in their 20s, and in 2009 was at an all-time high in that age group for the second straight year reaching 24.1 per 100,000 people. The NPA likewise reported a record for the third consecutive year among those in their 30s. The rate among the over-60 population is also high, although people in their 30s are still more likely to commit suicide.

The most frequent location for suicides is in Aokigahara, a forested area at the base of Mount Fuji. In the period leading up to 1988, about 30 suicides occurred there every year. In 1999, 74 occurred, the record until 2002 when 78 suicides were found. The area is patrolled by police looking for suicides, and that same year 83 people intending suicide were found and taken into protective custody.

Railroad tracks are also a common place for suicide, and the Chūō Rapid Line is particularly known for a high number.


Common methods of suicide are jumping in front of trains, leaping off high places, hanging, or overdosing on medication. Rail companies will charge the families of those who commit suicide a fee depending on the severity of disrupted traffic.

A newer method, gaining in popularity partly due to publicity from Internet suicide websites, is to use household products to make the poisonous gas hydrogen sulfide. In 2007, only 29 suicides used this gas, but in a span from January to September 2008, 867 suicides resulted from gas poisoning.


Suicide has never been criminalized in Japan.[clarification needed] Japanese society's attitude toward suicide has been termed "tolerant," and on many occasions a suicide is seen as a morally responsible action. Public discussion of the high rate of suicide also focuses on blaming the economic hardship faced by middle-aged men. However, the rise of Internet suicide websites and increasing rate of suicide pacts (shinjū) have raised concern from the public and media, which consider the pacts "thoughtless."

In 1703, Chikamatsu Monzaemon wrote a puppet play entitled Sonezaki Shinjuu (The Love Suicides at Sonezaki), which was later reengineered for the kabuki theatre. The inspiration for the play was an actual double suicide which had recently occurred between two forbidden lovers. Several more "double suicide" plays followed which were eventually outlawed by the governing authorities for emboldening more couples to “romantically” end their lives.

During Japan's imperial years, suicide was common within the military. This included kamikaze, kaiten and suicide when a battle was lost. The samurai way of glory was through death, and ritual suicide was seen as something honorable. Writer Yukio Mishima is famous for his ritual suicide while taking over a Japanese army base.

[sunnyrap]

Could be this is a form of adverse cultural conditioning meant to 'control'--I'd say it's pretty similar to the 'machismo' concept that gets acted out over on this side of the big water. Hate to admit men in my family and whole state culture for that matter, think it 'unmanly' to express emotions other than anger. And think of women as 'weaker' and sneer at them for indulging in emotion. My son's cohorts put their fellows down by calling them 'emo'.

Now, considering that emotion and feelings are the key ingredient in magic and 'manifesting', if you wanted to cripple a culture's power and ability to manifest the reality they wanted so you could control them, then you would use various religious and cultural tools to instill a loathing for accepting feelings. Just meditating on this whole picture...

[sjkted]

I did some reading on this a while back while I was living in Japan. Apparently, the cultural idea is that when there is a conflict between the individual and society at large (such as when one loses their job or status in society), the Japanese are accustomed and feel comfortable subordinating their own needs/interest to society such as they would in a corporate hierarchy. When there is nothing left for them to do, they perform hari kiri. In the sense of the American, they tend to exert individual dominance over the needs/interest of society. When they lose their position in society, they tend to act out against others in ways such as road rage. When they are pushed up against the wall, they are more likely to go postal (take other people's lives) rather than their own.

--sjkted

[sunnyrap]

Yes, sometimes sadly true. However, many Americans 'lose face' at not being good performers/providers, as well. Point is, both groups tie value to being able to physically serve self or others. No money=no value. This still seems like cultural conditioning and at odds with eastern OR western spiritual concepts to me.

[Teakai]

I think in regards to culture we've all been scr*wed over - just in different ways and as such have different types of fallout.

[sjkted]

Yes, sometimes sadly true. However, many Americans 'lose face' at not being good performers/providers, as well. Point is, both groups tie value to being able to physically serve self or others. No money=no value. This still seems like cultural conditioning and at odds with eastern OR western spiritual concepts to me.

One of the main issues is that Western society is generally more forgiving about different positions in life. For example, there are many professionals who did not follow the traditional route of getting high grades in high school, admission to the right college, grad school, internship, etc. We have stories of people studying law while working as a bartender or janitor at night, starting up companies in a garage or basement with a few thousand dollars, sales people who go from rags to riches through wits and perseverance.

There is no such thing in Japan. The people you go to school with are the people you work with in the corporate world. People literally work themselves up the ladder from graduating school to retirement, and if you miss a certain point for whatever reason, you can't go back. Students who do not pass college entrance exams will be permanently working at the quickie-mart. And, if you get fired or laid off, there are very few chances to get back on track. While I was still there (~12 years ago), layoffs were unheard of as was job-hopping. You would start work at the same company you retired from. There was no turnover. Of course, that all is changing.

--sjkted

[sunnyrap]

Yes--I was actually inferring the cultural conditioning was coming from the outside--not the inside. The Nephilum; the djin, the fallen angels, the greys--whoever it is who believes they profit from our enslavement, if that is what is occurring and it sure looks like it...

It puzzles me that a significant number of humans 'get it' that enslaving others ultimately is a blight upon us all; e.g., victimizing another ultimately victimizes the victimizer as well. I've always taken this to be a universal law. So how is it that the enslavers, who are allegedly older and smarter than us, do not get this concept? Are they not ruled by the same universal laws? Or are they popping in from another, more lawless dimension just long enough to part us from our energies?

[firstlook]

The deeper philosophy I see is the reach for perfection. I'm not completely familiar with "tradition" of the Japanese culture, but it seems it can be like anywhere else that is trying to use old survival archetypes in a world where there is much more forgiveness and self responsibility when it comes to the way a person lives their life.

I imagine this is do to an attachment of culture and comfort. As Terrence McKenna said, culture is a barrier. Discipline is taken in both its form. Self inspiration and Self blame. Both are a way to keep focus on the self. Its beautiful and tragic and the same time.

I think it goes back to the faults of trying to reach perfection. When you establish only ONE way to perceive your existence, your in a way shutting out the natural evolution that your mind is capable of.

I could be looking at this wrong or using context that isn't correct, but I find this is the general human condition of consciousness IMO.

I just want to add that I'm curious about the idea of self sacrifice. Is sacrificing ones life truly selfless? Or is it the most selfish thing an individual can do?

Interesting to contemplate and the very heavy feelings make it hard to look at without emotional judgment.

:(

[sunnyrap]

I envy your experience in Japan. My exposure to their culture started with reading 'Shogun' many years ago; then an even more fascinating glimpse when I worked for a quite large Japanese owned technology company operating in Texas. (I always wondered how that arrangement came to be in our state and why--all decisions ultimately were made from Tokyo, proper) They had more Japanese working there than Americans and the two cultures just barely ever interacted--they occupied different parts of the company campus. Even the company cafeteria had an American side and a Japanese side. Only a few of the Japanese spoke English and most seemed to want to avoid the Americans. We Americans were briefed by our supervisors on how to interact with the Japanese so as not to offend them, if you're thinking, 'oh, yeah--typical good ol' boy brassy Texans sure would impress the culturally strict Japanese--NOT'

[firstlook]

In a way, attachment to culture and beliefs closes off our understanding and appreciation of our environment. This of course applying to the topic at hand. :(

Although TM describes Culture as not being your friend, the point is really about the flow of information and our attachment to it.

So in a way Discipline should always be about adapting to change. That is what the art of selfless truly represents IMO.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYB0VW5x8fI

[TimelessDimensions]

it's quite true, one of my gf's is japanese and she hides her emotions and says that is the custom in japan, very unhealthy IMO

[TimelessDimensions]

most japanese are afraid of what other people think of them, fear attracts fear..

but will their cultural ego shell be cracked?

[araucaria]

I can't help feeling this is symptomatic of something playing itself out at the level of humanity as a whole. In India, there is a spate of suicides among famrers bankrupted by GM crops, so it is not specifically a Japanese thing. The prospect of mass extinction is very real and may be seen as mass extermination or mass suicide depending on the viewpoint. We need to remember that suicide is often not a rejection of life per se as of life as presented to us. These are people who are saying Enough! with whom we can identify and hopefully give the courage to help do something about it

[Agape]

I was once told long an interesting to me story from friend ..he was German but lived many years on his own in India , taught Reiki , as 'Reiki Master' .
I did not belong to his 'inner circle' as I've followed my Tibetan Buddhist studies but we were say , quiet neighbours in good standing for many months.

One afternoon, I suppose he was in good mood, sat on the stairs and opened his heart . The time of events can be in my best guess almost 20 years ago from now so I hope what he's shared is not true anymore.
But not having any reason to disbelieve him.

He worked for few years in Japan as English teacher, enjoyed to be there and as it goes..accidentally, fell in love with one of his ( adult ) students.

His Japanese girfriend was someone really cute and intelligent as girfriends usually are , little life miracle.
But she had a difficult life, born to the family of alcoholic father who used to beat mother and could not take care of children,
parents gave the girl to uncles family for upbringing which is probably considered within the traditional cultural norm.
She was always treated as last, received less food than their own kids and punished for little things but could not leave there till she was 18 or so..

gone back to her mum when she was free again to do that , their father was not alive anymore. She had some siblings too if I'm correct .

All seemed just good when she became adult, the tortures were gone, time to start ones own life and having this friend from Europe was certainly healing point for her emotions.

He had to leave back to Germany at some point , for couple of months and though they kept in touch with phones and letters she 's remained there with the mother who needed home care etc.

When the friend returned to Japan ..he found there had to be upsets at the house and the girl closed herself in room, crying for hours, unable to communicate with others,
they've taken her to doctor who did not find anything wrong with her ..actually.


He said she was obviously depressed but that time, there was no official diagnosis of 'depression' in Japan,
you could be diagnosed in many other ways for some type of disorder but the point that became so upsetting is,
Japanese were virtually prohibited to complain or leave work , or be medically suspended for 'having depression'.

Allegedly ( I've not checked the information but would dearly like to do that ) ,

their health and social governance system banned the diagnose from fear ( and knowing ) there would be millions of traumatized people falling to the trap ..and fitting to the columns, especially in post war Japan ..


So to cut the story short ...his girlfriend was not treated till all the symptoms became much worse and she was aggressive and dangerous to herself ( still closed in her mothers apartment ) for which she was considered psychotic,
while Alf ( the friend ) travelled back to Germany , consulted doctors and payed for anti-depressants that again, allegedly helped .

But since the two could not always be together and she did not want to leave Japan at that time, their path went apart ..
and I do not really recall what was the end of the sad story ..




:sad:

[TigaHawk]

Isnt it strange how people associate feelings with being weak.

Anything other than being able to stand tall like a metal podium and show no emotions at all and people think of you as weak - and even lose some respect for you in some cases.

Is it not sad that people are being bought up to believe this.

I personaly, have troubles expressing my emotions. It's kind of like - i think something is extreamly beautifull - i'll cry - i'll see something extreamly happy - i'll cry. But because i cry - i feel ashamed of myself, i gues because i know im happy - so why am i not laughing? Why do i feel like that? Is it because ive been bought up being taught that when you're happy, you laugh, when you are sad, you cry , and in the face of something monsterous and unbelievable, you're meant to be an unmoving block of stone - unphased and standing strong as if nothing has ever happend.


No wonder the world is so messed up - If we cannot even express ourselves the way we want too - in ways that's natural for us - as we're trying to live up to expectations (or believe things are meant to work one specific way - the way youv'e been told - rather than what actualy happens in you're specific case)


Edit - and i believe this song a good one - as the lyrics i feel are trying to tell you, that you need to talk about you're problems - ie how you feel - and references how we currently act in comparison.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swJ5-4wS4bk

http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/blocparty/flux.html

[sunnyrap]

I've taken a fair amount of acting classes, mostly to help me master feelings and interpersonal communications. One workshop I joined, called 'The Mastery of Acting', concentrated heavily on helping participants express the major emotions without hesitation: love, anger, need, sadness...hardest by far was need for virtually everyone in the class. Anger was by far the easiest. In any improvisational theatre workshop, actors will most often resort to anger and argument in order to relate. I think perhaps we as a species have been stuck at the same level...