Best to sell or stay?

[Eric J (Viking)]

With the economy the way it is and hanging on by a thread ...

Here in UK (this applies to US as well and the rest of the world)...what would you do...sell and pocket some equity or hang it out??

Whats the best decision... will UK crash just like other countries in Europe...its hit N Ireland harder than most the property market has tumbled big time...

Sell up and rent, or stay??

Come on all you economic geniuses what would you do/advise?

viking

[ponda]

Hi viking,

Sell or stay ?

That's got to be the $64,000 tricky question of the year.

Probably depends on a lot of things

What's gonna happen ?

When's it gonna happen ?

Where's a safe area ?

What's needed and for how long ?

Then what ?

Maybe nothing happens.

Your decision.Things might get clearer as time goes by.

FWIW i dropped out of society in 2000

[Roseheart]

I woke up one morning last year and just knew we had to get out of the mortgage and buy in the country which we did within literally about 4 months.
It just felt right and fell into place really easily.
I live in Sydney so, it's a different scenario but we're all in the same boat I think in the end...
We are moving to the country next year.
I have been a city girl all my life and would never have imagined doing something like this yet, my instinct was just so strong and my husband felt the same fairly quickly.
For me this was more about where we belong as opposed to any fear about the future.
Your answer will be there.

[Lily de Cuir]

Hi Viking,

First of all I am no economic genius! But if it was me and I owned property, I would sell up now and rent. That way you are free to move around. If you have equity in your property, save it and keep it for a mobile home if necessary. You know, one of those 'caravanny' things on wheels, lol. That is my own personal position for when the SHTF. Free as a bird. I don't want to be burdened with a property.

In addition, with the equity you get when you sell, get everything you need and then some. Cash at sometime in the future will be useless. Might has well use it now for things you need before inflation hits - you know the drill - food, water, BBQ, clothing, good shoes, wood, medicine, bikes, tents, heirloom seeds, mobile home if you can afford it. Gold and Silver of course.

You could also consider moving to Australia or South Africa. I'm not sure where in South Africa. Here in Oz is where I am, northern NSW. But wherever, up high and away from the coast of course.

Moving countries is a big move and involves so many things, you may just want to stay put if you have kids in school etc. But I would advise being able to be mobile most of all and that means not owning a property. Get rid of it I say, while you can.

Just my two cents,

Kind regards,
Lily

[loveandgratitude]

If I lived in the UK, I would be selling and moving out, quick and fast. I would try to live in a self-sufficient place like Morocco, Portugual, Tunisa, somewhere it is a little warmer and the locals have been growing food for a long time and know how to survive in a simple manner yet have all they need. Good luck in making a decision. Try to check inside and see if you can come up with the right answer for you.
Many blessings for you and your family.

[Eric J (Viking)]

Hey thanks Guys ...

With Wifey,4 kids, 1 dog and 2 cats on tow and the 2 youngest still at school...its adds complications ... its difficult to just pull them out of the system ie schooloing ect etc ...

My thoughts are yes to sell and rent rather than stay put...this way I can decide what to do when TSHTF ...

Fun and games hey...

viking

[GCS1103]

Hi, Viking-

Here's the advice I give to my clients on that question (I'm a real estate attorney and interact with the banking industry on a daily basis):

If you own a home that has some equity in it, do not sell the property, as the values are extremely depressed right now. Here in the New York tri-State area, the majority of our real estate values have tanked miserably- this applies to both residential and commercial properties. This advice assumes that you do not have to sell- ie. you are re-locating, retiring, unable to afford the monthly mortgage payments, etc. The real estate market has picked up slightly, but not enough to justify selling your property if you do not have to. I have seen the market, over the past 25 years fluctuate up and down, but this "correction" as the banking industry calls it, was completely manufactured and planned by this same industry and is, without a doubt, the most severe in a very long time. Some of us saw this coming, but most property owner's were totally unaware of what was going on.

I advise my clients, if they have some equity in their property but are having a hard time making the mortgage payments, to rent the property out until the market picks up. Here on the East Coast the rental market has gone through the roof. So many people have lost their homes and need a place to live, so they rent. You could rent your property to cover your monthly carrying charges and then move into a rental yourself until the market becomes more stable. It is a "buyer's market" right now and if you do not need to sell property, in order to buy, you are in a good position to take advantage of the market and buy something.

I don't know if the UK has what we call "short sales" here, but this type of transaction is very common in the U.S. People who bought at the height of the market for top dollar only to see their property value plummet lower than the balance of their mortgage. Since they have lost all their equity, many decide to sell their property in a "short sale" asking their lender to accept less than what is owed on their mortgage. Approximately 1 in 5 real estate transactions are no longer traditional sales, but are short sales. I could go on and on, but the simple answer to your question is do not sell if you don't have to right now. I hope this helped a little.

[Eric J (Viking)]

Yes I undersatnd...but if I can get a good price for my property now...I can bank the equity and if the market crashes big time...then I could buy something alot cheaper in a year or two !!! and rent in the mean time...

Of course, as long as we don't have Paradigm change by then??

viking

[Snowbird]

Viking, I'm certainly not attempting to add fear to this scenario, but if I was living in the UK I would study very hard into the possible mini Ice Age that we have been hearing about. I keep hearing and reading that the northern Europe area will be hardest hit. The winter weather in your part of the world has been demonstrating some of this already. This has been forecasted for 2014. Ice ages happen quickly. Something to think about anyway. :smow: :hug:

[Eric J (Viking)]

Yes I hear you Snowbird, and much appreciated...

You try convincing my wife this!!! Shes one of the sleepys ...

If I told her we need to pack up and go because of a coming ice age....she would call the white van ... she thinks I'm a fruitcake as it is ...

I think someone played a cruel joke on me when I reincarnated here for lessons !!! ha ha apart from that she's lovely ...

viking

[Fred259]

Viking, I'm certainly not attempting to add fear to this scenario, but if I was living in the UK I would study very hard into the possible mini Ice Age that we have been hearing about. I keep hearing and reading that the northern Europe area will be hardest hit. The winter weather in your part of the world has been demonstrating some of this already. This has been forecasted for 2014. Ice ages happen quickly. Something to think about anyway. :smow: :hug:

Snowbird, Who is forecasting what the winter of 2014 will be like in spring of 2011?

[Steven]

Hello Viking,

It is not an economic crisis that we are facing, but a financial and monetary crisis. There is no lack of resources due to an environmental disaster or lack of working force due to wars or other scenario of this kind.

No, the crisis is strickly financial and monetary. Some players at that level, like Ben Bernanke, are spreading confusion saying it's an economic crisis, because they have much to loose if we do not backup the banks and financial institutions.

Let them fall, invest into hard value instead of currency. Lands, houses, and all other long lifetime assets necessary for Life are all better investment rather than pilling up printed or electronic money.

People will not stop working, will not fight or starve, like Bernanke and his likes are desperatly trying to convince us to beleive.

Namaste, Steven

[Fred259]

Come on Viking, I though you Ulstermen were made of tougher stuff, what’s the problem?

If you sell, the question is where are you going to go. Dundalk?

We think we are going through a rough time but really it’s not that bad compared with some in other parts of the world. I accept it’s not so great if you can’t find work.

I was thinking back; about the interview B&K did with Michael St Clair in Montreaux, I believe it was maybe three or four years ago now. I watching it again a few weeks ago, everything he predicted has more or less come true over the past four years in terms of the real economy.

The existing banking system as St Clair predicted will eventually collapse, or it will continue in a different form with the bankers loosing their shirts.

New Banks are being formed and capitalised as we speak. Here is a Scottish Businessman who runs the buses in the UK as well as Coach America and Coach Canada discussing how they are putting money into a local bank. This has to happen, they need to invest but they don’t want to be associated with Wall Street or the City of London. So this is back to the mutual’s that we had in the olden days and the traditional building societies that were formed originally as community mutual finance houses. Northern Bank is a good bank; a bank for Northern Ireland serving the local people yet has the strength through the Danes, who are responsible people.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAZT24szEOo


The world is not going to topple. Times may be hard and we need to deal with the rise of globalization and the corporations. Power will eventually be removed from the globalists probably by the military. Despite what the subversive Julia Middleton may think Britain will not become a Marxist state.

America will not fail. The American people are heavily armed, it might be hard but look at Donald Trump just this week, he is protecting his investments. Yes Trump might be a property billionaire on paper, but he is not in the same league as the banking criminals, so Trump is doing the same for America in much the same way as Brian Souter is doing for Scotland and the UK. The same will happen in Northern Ireland Viking.

The Americans need to do us all a favour, and remove the United Nations once and for all.


6997

This is the only real problem the world needs to be concerned about. Everything else is manageable when all is said and done.



A new pluralistic world order is forming, with developing nations doing just great. Standards of living and life expectancy in Africa are rising. These nation states that traditionally had strong financial links with the US and UK are now forming trading blocks amongst themselves. They tell the World Bank to stick it in the Potomac and the UN the Hudson. Developing nations just laugh at Agenda 21. This is White man talk they say and quite rightly so. In Pakistan they talk about the Gora, the “Gora man” everything will be fine when the Gora man leaves. The white man. Is this not true, all the US and UK are doing is destabilising Pakistan because they want to create an independent state in Baluchistan.

The biggest problem we face is the media or rather the subversion of the population by the media which is why you are posting “What should I do” What is really happening in the world is completely different from what we are told. America is going to Nuke China. What! Have they ever considered that China might nuke America? It’s estimated that fifty thousand Chinese work in the US military industrial complex and larger universities. How many Americans work in the Chinese Military or Universities? Answer zero. So which country is subverted? Israel is going to attack Iran, its all grossly irresponsible Israel can’t attack Iran, it doesn’t have the strategic capability and Iran is a vast country. The real reason for all this media hype is that Israel always needs an enemy as justification for its military industrial complex.

So no Viking I would sit down like the rest of us and ride out the storm. Priority number one must be getting the wife out to work full time, none of this half time job share nonsense. Her mother did, following in the steps of her grandmother. Africa and Indian women do, so big lifestyle changes are required on the home front I would say. No more coffee mornings or shopping for pointless things, the swimming pool at eleven o’clock in the morning lifestyle must end. This isn’t going to be a problem is it; Ulster folk are hardy already aren’t they.

PS. I really do enjoy your Earth Changes thread that you jointly produce with Ascending. Thanks, both of you. Ascending went AWOL during the Japanese tsunami, which I suppose is understandable! He might have more to be concerned about………




6998

Vik, I was loading up the images and I noticed this and Yes I know this is off topic but folks they don’t pussy foot around with drug dealers in Northern Ireland they just get “tarred and feathered”, you could say this is community style justice !....

[Fred259]

Hello Viking,

It is not an economic crisis that we are facing, but a financial and monetary crisis. There is no lack of resources due to an environmental desaster or lack of working force due to wars or other scenario of this kind.

No, the crisis is strickly financial and monetary. Some players at that level, like Ben Bernanke, are spreading confusion saying its an economic crisis, because they have much to loose if we do not backup the banks and financial institution.

Let them fall, invest into hard value instead of currency. Lands, house, and all other long lifetime assets necessary for Life are all better investment rather than pilling up printed or electronic money.

People will not stop working, will not fight or starve, like Bernanke and his likes are desperatly trying to convince us to beleive.

Namaste, Steven


Absolutely Steven, you hit it on the head, the US, Canada, Britain and the West in general are not poor by any means, and quite the opposite private wealth is enormous. It’s the banking system that’s corrupt and needs to be removed and re-capitalised by responsible investors.

[9eagle9]

If things are arranged in the UK like they are here in America where you don't own your home or even any property even after you've paid your bank note off then....it doesn't matter.

[Calz]

If things are arranged in the UK like they are here in America where you don't own your home or even any property even after you've paid your bank note off then....it doesn't matter.

Yep.

No advice fits all ... particularly going around the globe.

Prepare for the worst and take nothing for granted. Governments most anywhere will not hesitate to take from you anything they have a desire for.

Not saying the "worst" will come to pass ... but for those with extra ... imho get possession of physical commodities and be mobile.

[TimelessDimensions]

If you have a mortgage and haven't paid it off in full, then SELL asap!!

Interest rates are bound to double or quadruple within the next 2-years.

For the next 5-years it will be much safer to RENT.

[9eagle9]

Squatting will become the new thing since technically in the US anyway they haven't entirely abolished the homesteading acts....lol.

If I were intrepid enough I'd just drive around the hood, snap a photo of all the empty homes, and create my own publication of Squatters Weekly. Take a commission if the new squatters are able to hang on to the house for the prescribed length of time.

The new face in real estate. A squatters broker.

[Carmen]

Viking, I would listen to Snowbird. When the gulf stream completely fails,The ice will come, as far down as the Pyrranese (spelling?) Also, any more 9+ earthquakes in the northern hemisphere will shag those nuclear plants and with any of them spewing, the northern hemisphere will be difficult to survive. Australia, away from the coasts would be a safer bet.

[crosby]

i'm not an economic genious, but i can tell you that if the housing market isn't moving, selling won't be an option. in the area where i live, there are many homes on the market, but very few are selling. many more are now (or have been) being foreclosed upon, mine included. if you can find a buyer, by all means, sell, take the equity and do what you can with it, however, if the housing market isn't moving in your favor, stay put......
regards, corson

[Eric J (Viking)]

Come on Viking, I though you Ulstermen were made of tougher stuff, what’s the problem?

If you sell, the question is where are you going to go. Dundalk?

We think we are going through a rough time but really it’s not that bad compared with some in other parts of the world. I accept it’s not so great if you can’t find work.

I was thinking back; about the interview B&K did with Michael St Clair in Montreaux, I believe it was maybe three or four years ago now. I watching it again a few weeks ago, everything he predicted has more or less come true over the past four years in terms of the real economy.

The existing banking system as St Clair predicted will eventually collapse, or it will continue in a different form with the bankers loosing their shirts.

New Banks are being formed and capitalised as we speak. Here is a Scottish Businessman who runs the buses in the UK as well as Coach America and Coach Canada discussing how they are putting money into a local bank. This has to happen, they need to invest but they don’t want to be associated with Wall Street or the City of London. So this is back to the mutual’s that we had in the olden days and the traditional building societies that were formed originally as community mutual finance houses. Northern Bank is a good bank; a bank for Northern Ireland serving the local people yet has the strength through the Danes, who are responsible people.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAZT24szEOo


The world is not going to topple. Times may be hard and we need to deal with the rise of globalization and the corporations. Power will eventually be removed from the globalists probably by the military. Despite what the subversive Julia Middleton may think Britain will not become a Marxist state.

America will not fail. The American people are heavily armed, it might be hard but look at Donald Trump just this week, he is protecting his investments. Yes Trump might be a property billionaire on paper, but he is not in the same league as the banking criminals, so Trump is doing the same for America in much the same way as Brian Souter is doing for Scotland and the UK. The same will happen in Northern Ireland Viking.

The Americans need to do us all a favour, and remove the United Nations once and for all.


6997

This is the only real problem the world needs to be concerned about. Everything else is manageable when all is said and done.



A new pluralistic world order is forming, with developing nations doing just great. Standards of living and life expectancy in Africa are rising. These nation states that traditionally had strong financial links with the US and UK are now forming trading blocks amongst themselves. They tell the World Bank to stick it in the Potomac and the UN the Hudson. Developing nations just laugh at Agenda 21. This is White man talk they say and quite rightly so. In Pakistan they talk about the Gora, the “Gora man” everything will be fine when the Gora man leaves. The white man. Is this not true, all the US and UK are doing is destabilising Pakistan because they want to create an independent state in Baluchistan.

The biggest problem we face is the media or rather the subversion of the population by the media which is why you are posting “What should I do” What is really happening in the world is completely different from what we are told. America is going to Nuke China. What! Have they ever considered that China might nuke America? It’s estimated that fifty thousand Chinese work in the US military industrial complex and larger universities. How many Americans work in the Chinese Military or Universities? Answer zero. So which country is subverted? Israel is going to attack Iran, its all grossly irresponsible Israel can’t attack Iran, it doesn’t have the strategic capability and Iran is a vast country. The real reason for all this media hype is that Israel always needs an enemy as justification for its military industrial complex.

So no Viking I would sit down like the rest of us and ride out the storm. Priority number one must be getting the wife out to work full time, none of this half time job share nonsense. Her mother did, following in the steps of her grandmother. Africa and Indian women do, so big lifestyle changes are required on the home front I would say. No more coffee mornings or shopping for pointless things, the swimming pool at eleven o’clock in the morning lifestyle must end. This isn’t going to be a problem is it; Ulster folk are hardy already aren’t they.

PS. I really do enjoy your Earth Changes thread that you jointly produce with Ascending. Thanks, both of you. Ascending went AWOL during the Japanese tsunami, which I suppose is understandable! He might have more to be concerned about………




6998

Vik, I was loading up the images and I noticed this and Yes I know this is off topic but folks they don’t pussy foot around with drug dealers in Northern Ireland they just get “tarred and feathered”, you could say this is community style justice !....

Hey Fred

Thats a cool post...made me think and laugh at the same time!! lol

Hey I'm not in N Ireland... I was just giving an example of property crash...I am in Hampshire UK...

Do you now see the point I'm trying to make...the property crash in N Ireland has been devastating...if this is the case will we experience the same here in UK...and if we do!!!

Thanks Timeless ... they were my thoughts...but I cant see how the rates will qaudruple in a few years though...that would kill economy...

*sighs* we need a new paradigm dont we!!

viking

[Arrowwind]

Great post Fred.

As far as economic improvements in what was recently considered third world.. I would say that Mexico is improving by leaps and bounds.. Not they have by no means reached the level of consumerism as found in the US but I would say that the average mexican is doing much better. Many women now have washing machines, they all have TV, public health has greatly improved, sewer smells in the streets are largely gone, all the product in meat markets is fully refrigerated and the flies are gone!... stuff we have long long taken for granted. and health care is growing by leaps and bounds.... and our recent experience with doctors here showed me that they are very good.

The US perhaps is going to go through a phase of leveling in the playing field of life.
Oh and by the way squatters rights are in full swing in Mexico... and so it should be in the US. If one cannot maintain, monitor or manage or and support property then others should be able to use it... God owns the earth, not man.... at least thats how I feel about it today.

[9eagle9]

There are reports trickling in here and there that f squatters are having success in what used to be called claim jumping back in the day. Maybe more than we hear about since I'm sure the PTB aren't going to allow the media to hurl that particular bit of information around. But homesteading acts and the squatting precedents that are legislated under Homesteading Acts are still pretty much untouched and basically forgotten about since mortgaging became 'the' way to secure housing. I'm sure it varies by locality and state.

[Eric J (Viking)]

Yes I hear what you are saying... Snowbird/Carmen ...

I am not totally convinced about the coming ice age or particularly worried about a pole shift or Tsunamis...UK had faired quite well in climate changes and as for Tsunamis due to a pole shift or quakes, again UK has faired well as Stonehenge is testament to this...we are very hilly in UK which acts as a barrier for fast moving water... France on the other hand has lots of flat land...mmmm...?

Well no one knows for sure what will be...but its great fun speculating...

viking

[Second Son]

It is my opinion that we all NEED to get as far outside the existing paradigm as humanly possible. And I mean at all levels. Right now we are asking ourselves whether we should stay in our over-priced (and now crashed) house in the suburbs and continue to give our REAL time and life energy in exchange for fiat currency which we will then use to buy oversized homes and cars we really don't need, and which, when completely paid off are STILL NOT OWNED BY US!

I'm sorry, but I don't feel that switching to a smaller, locally owned credit union or savings and loan, changes anything. We are still duped into pouring out our precious life energy into a system most of us neither really endorse, understand, trust, or feel like we are an integral part of. We are taxed without adequate representation, and we know our votes don't really count, and won't change anything, because the democratic process has long since been co-opted by the same fat cats who orchestrated the financial collapse.

I think we need to move OUT of our McMansions in the burbs and find a community ASAP. Time is running out folks, and the writing is on the wall. These scumbags are making all the rules, so they KNOW the worst is yet to come. They are predicting (and causing) conditions which will eventually cause even the most docile and law abiding, to resist (what do you think all those detention camps are for?)

Most sentiments here are to sit on our collective hands until "TSHTF", and then reacting to the global man-made catastrophe. I say be proactive and stop giving all of out energy to a system designed at the outset to enslave and subjugate us all.

To me it doesn't matter whether the system will crumble tomorrow, or next week, what matters is that it is fundamentally corrupt, designed by evil, greedy, sociopaths, and is designed to rob us of our sovereignty. I think THIS should be enough for us ALL to do whatever is in our power to thwart and opt out of this system, while we still have any power al all.

Just my two cents.

[Fred259]

Yes I hear what you are saying... Snowbird/Carmen ...

I am not totally convinced about the coming ice age or particularly worried about a pole shift or Tsunamis...UK had faired quite well in climate changes and as for Tsunamis due to a pole shift or quakes, again UK has faired well as Stonehenge is testament to this...we are very hilly in UK which acts as a barrier for fast moving water... France on the other hand has lots of flat land...mmmm...?


Well know one knows for sure what will be...but its great fun speculating...

viking

Vik,

Don’t worry about the Pole shift. The pole cant shift it’s not connected to anything. It’s just a fixed point on an icecap.

Don’t worry about the magnetic pole shifting. It moves all the time, like a pendulum.

Don’t worry about a Tsunami. Not in Hampshire.

Don’t worry about the property market. Don’t sell the market is poor so even if you can find a buyer you may not get a good price and remember whenever you buy again you need to pay stamp duty. Remember the crash in the early nineties, 24 months later things were normal again.

Worry – About getting the wife in fulltime gainful employment. No more nail bars for example.

Worry – About keeping your own job.

Don’t waste money on new cars and all the garbage things in life.

Do post more Earth Changes threads.

[Eric J (Viking)]

LOL ... Fred

I don't worry about the first 3 'don't worries' ...

The 4th 'dont worry'... again I'm not too worried about it as I will either rent of pick up a bargain... no worries...

The 5th 'dont worry' my wife works with me running my business...no worries here...

The 6th 'dont worry' ...well that depends how the market goes with used cars!! mmm could be worrying!

As for new cars...been there tried it and done that...all sorts...not worried. I love used cars...especially the classics...

And lastly I'll try to post some more on 'earth changes' thread ... ;-)

Phew that was alot of worries!!!

Hey do I look worried... http://www.wayodd.com/funny-pictures2/funny-pictures-chilling-out-1sg.jpg

viking

[Ross]

I live in a resonably stable country...Australia, not that that is any insurance, but it does help currently. I chose to sell 1 year ago, got rid of the mortgage, cashed up and renting at the beach. Also have an amount of cash on hand, I do not trust the banks....if there was to be a power outage, CME or some kind of situation to cause ppls to have a "run on the banks" withdrawing your own funds, they will simply close the doors...so in a dire situation your monies in a bank will be worthless when you most need it.

I am playing it cautious, The floods we had in Queensland and Brisbane city, which is the hub of warehouse stock pile of foods, was underwater, the main highway north was flooded, every town in-between, a vast area of flooding were unable to supply goods. I witnessed within 48hrs, 3 supermakets in my town empty...and i mean empty. This illustrates just how quick the flow of goods can breakdown and many are caught out.

I have cash, 60 ltrs of water and 6 weeks of food stuffs, fuel in my garage, survival kit ready to go.

I am also very dubious that this current financial situation will improve, and I can not see how on earth it will improve, Here in OZ, the unemplyment rate is only 5% retail is showing signs at the moment of being resonably steady but the housing sector, in my area is depressed, I know many who are working, have cash flow but are struggling with house payments, children costs, rising food, fuel and utilitiy costs.

Vikings point is tricky...keep equity in the house "hoping all will come good" or sell and get what you can. If by chance you can sell and do "ok" having a cash stash in the present enviroment is a good option. If things become worse and many others decide to "cash out" you can be left behind in a congested market of sellers (we can see this in other countries) and prices will continue to fall and what equity you do have will erode further.

All my life, even when having debt, I have always had some cash, option B to fall back on....in saying that, if the whole system fails, cash will become useless, inflation and the like...

again its a tough call Viking...meditate on it;)

Ross

[ponda]

It is my opinion that we all NEED to get as far outside the existing paradigm as humanly possible. And I mean at all levels. Right now we are asking ourselves whether we should stay in our over-priced (and now crashed) house in the suburbs and continue to give our REAL time and life energy in exchange for fiat currency which we will then use to buy oversized homes and cars we really don't need, and which, when completely paid off are STILL NOT OWNED BY US!

I'm sorry, but I don't feel that switching to a smaller, locally owned credit union or savings and loan, changes anything. We are still duped into pouring out our precious life energy into a system most of us neither really endorse, understand, trust, or feel like we are an integral part of. We are taxed without adequate representation, and we know our votes don't really count, and won't change anything, because the democratic process has long since been co-opted by the same fat cats who orchestrated the financial collapse.

I think we need to move OUT of our McMansions in the burbs and find a community ASAP. Time is running out folks, and the writing is on the wall. These scumbags are making all the rules, so they KNOW the worst is yet to come. They are predicting (and causing) conditions which will eventually cause even the most docile and law abiding, to resist (what do you think all those detention camps are for?)

Most sentiments here are to sit on our collective hands until "TSHTF", and then reacting to the global man-made catastrophe. I say be proactive and stop giving all of out energy to a system designed at the outset to enslave and subjugate us all.

To me it doesn't matter whether the system will crumble tomorrow, or next week, what matters is that it is fundamentally corrupt, designed by evil, greedy, sociopaths, and is designed to rob us of our sovereignty. I think THIS should be enough for us ALL to do whatever is in our power to thwart and opt out of this system, while we still have any power al all.

Just my two cents.

Great post.

There's a lot we can do to move away from the system and yet still function within it.

When you look around the world at the moment everything seems to be simmering and could boil over very easily.The financial situation in Europe isn't improving.Greece,Ireland,Iceland,Portugal have had problems.Spain and Italy could be next and then what ? The US debt problem and the failing US dollar could be triggers for something.Upheaval in the oil producing Middle East.The rising oil price.The rising world food costs.Inflation in China etc It's all looking a lot worse than pre the 2008 financial crisis.

Being mobile,flexible and prepared might be the smart thing to do and you can still function normally if nothing happens.

[Nader]

Intentional Community is the name of the game. For starters, while money is still viewed as useful, I would find a group of like-minded people and work to build a large community greenhouse. No more brilliant of an example to set for your children, in my opinion, than by working openly and diligently with others to grow as much food and medicine as possible, to remineralize the soil in your area, and to consider the pollinators in your area as the supreme court. Hell, I'd give my vote to a mason bee before any politician. Also, none of this "gotta have a secret survival stash" garbage. There always has been enough to go around, so snap out of it and share yourself.

[joelmags]

Your heads are going against your troubled hearts and you are second guessing yourselves. We have the power to create our own realities. We must believe, trust & act.

[Fred259]

Intentional Community is the name of the game. For starters, while money is still viewed as useful, I would find a group of like-minded people and work to build a large community greenhouse. No more brilliant of an example to set for your children, in my opinion, than by working openly and diligently with others to grow as much food and medicine as possible, to remineralize the soil in your area, and to consider the pollinators in your area as the supreme court. Hell, I'd give my vote to a mason bee before any politician. Also, none of this "gotta have a secret survival stash" garbage. There always has been enough to go around, so snap out of it and share yourself.

Interesting Nader,

Does anyone know what size of vegetable garden you need to grow for four people.?

[joelmags]

A four square meter "french double-dug garden" planted right, would be ok for starters. It takes seasons to get your garden just right. Start composting. Try to get heirloom seeds. We have an heirloom seed exchange with some friends. This ensures no one runs out of good seeds. Be sensitive to native pollinators and increase plantings of plants they favor. We also care for a variety of honeybees to improve fruit/seed set and germination.

[norman]

Does anyone know what size of vegetable garden you need to grow for four people.?



It's not quite that simple.

You'll probably find that the patch of land you choose will favour some types better than others. You also should take into consideration whether you have a 'community' doing the same type of thing that you can swap produce with.

If you try to feed 4 people in isolation from a small patch of land it's going to be very much of a struggle. It's hard to keep the food coming in evenly throughout the year. There are a lot of other creatures that will want to eat your food before you do too ( the last time I tried to grow cabbages and cauliflowers in my back garden I never got eat any of them !)

In my view, it's only realistic to think in terms of doing it as a larger community. A vege' patch is a good way to get learning about it but it won't keep you out of the supermarket any time soon. It takes a larger 'economy' in food to get right away from the big system. You will almost certainly have to trade some of your stuff for things you can't produce. That begins to go down the road the current food industry has gone down but you don't have to go all the way.

The first step is to create a community, and then get quite industrious about it.

If things really get very bad, there is another problem. Other people will turn up and steal it all from you, even if they have to kill you to do it.

It's hard to know what it is we are trying to be prepared for. If a serious crisis is coming, I'd guess that there are people who would regard producing anything as foolish. They'd more likely be tooling up for a private army to take what they need and defend it.

[Tangri]

With the economy the way it is and hanging on by a thread ...

Here in UK (this applies to US as well and the rest of the world)...what would you do...sell and pocket some equity or hang it out??

Whats the best decision... will UK crash just like other countries in Europe...its hit N Ireland harder than most the property market has tumbled big time...

Sell up and rent, or stay??

Come on all you economic geniuses what would you do/advise?

viking

Viking you are still there.

[Second Son]

I am trying to get as self sufficient as possible in the next couple years. I would like to find some like-minded individuals in the area to share knowledge/work etc., to reach our common goals, but even in a fairly agrarian and progressive state like Vermont, it is harder than one might think. Perhaps when things get really bad, people will wake up, but by then will it be too late?

[steve_a]

Hi Viking,

To be quite honest I haven't been following the UK position for some time since the world economy went t*ts up. However many years ago I sold up and took off and never looked back (mind you I was 22 years old at the time). That doesn't mean to say that I would do the same thing at my stage of life, especially if I had no experience of starting over, or had any fall back in case my decision made me have to go back to where I started from.

The question is not whether you should take the money and run. If that was the case, you would have flipped your house several times already and / or rented it to make money.

The question is if you need to have a fresh start, if you're adventurous enough to go into the unknown (even more so if you are over 40), would you have the energy to stick out another 'home making' experience. In other words, I would suggest that you ask yourself the real reason why you wish to move. Sometimes we don't discover the real reason until we dig right down and are nothing more than honest with ourselves and what we want from our lives.

Where we are is not important and the economy crashing are mere details. When I arrived here in Brazil in 1991, inflation was 50% per month! It didn't stop me from coming here! I still sat on the beaches and took advantage of the opportunities that here offered me. Even when there were no apparent opportunities, I made them. So ask yourelf the real reason for the move and base your decision on that.

Good luck.

Best regards,

Steve




With the economy the way it is and hanging on by a thread ...

Here in UK (this applies to US as well and the rest of the world)...what would you do...sell and pocket some equity or hang it out??

Whats the best decision... will UK crash just like other countries in Europe...its hit N Ireland harder than most the property market has tumbled big time...

Sell up and rent, or stay??

Come on all you economic geniuses what would you do/advise?

viking