The Real Story about Trails in the Sky.

[Icecold]

There has been a debate on the Chemtrail Pilot Talks thread. In my view, that debate has shown that with the use of solid real world evidence, that chemtrail conspiracy is a pack of disinformation mainly presented on two suspect sites.......

1. www.rense.com

2. educate-yourself.org

Other than these two disinformation sources, there is very little discussion of chemtrails anywhere else.

I've started this thread as a place to lay down the evidence for the contrail/chaff theory of trails in the sky.

The problem with the new age movement is that a bunch of fairy-loving myth readers want to convince you that they understand science or natural phenomena. They have no clue outside of fairy tales or hysteria peddling.


Original thread here.....
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?17730-Chemtrail-pilot-talks

[Icecold]

This is the conspiracy theorists main chemtrail offender, an agri business that uses planes to crop spray its vineyards and orchards.. I DO NOT SUPPORT THE SPRAYING OF CROPS....

...yet the chemtrail theorists claim that this company is deliberately following a policy of poisoning the entire population with a bio weapon program!!!!!



Chemtrail Pilot Line
Show Audio



Date: 03-26-04
Host: George Noory
Guests: Open Lines, Steve Quayle

George set up a special open line for pilots to disclose what they knew about the alleged chemtrail spraying over America. One military pilot, who said he flies out of Edwards AFB, told of seeing a substance loaded into planes, which he described as clear and gelatin-like, that is then dropped between 10,000 and 30,000 ft. in the air. Its purpose, he said, is to create a kind of film that blocks radar from penetrating the area for a certain amount of time before it dissipates.
Another caller, who said he was an airline pilot instructor, referenced William Thomas' website, willthomas.net(1), and said chemtrails were colloidal substances containing human blood derivatives, being dropped in an effort to sicken the population.

The articles report that a company called Evergreen Air is poisoning select groups United States citizens. With jet streams and the movement of air, large areas of the united states are being poisoned. Areas where elites would probably live, including senior Air Force/other military/elites and their families. Has anyone noticed groups of military personnel/or others of any kind going about wearing gas masks? You would think the people in the know would be taking precautions to protect their families from the dangerous biological weapons. Has any US members noticed if this is the case in their area?


Evergreen Air

http://www.evergreenaviation.com/


http://www.evergreenaviation.com/home_new/basket.jpg

Here are some of their affiliate companies...

http://www.evergreenag.com/

http://www.evergreenorchards.com/

http://www.evergreenvineyards.com/

[Gajanana]

I'm not going to add anything smart or scientific. I see these trails all over denmark and have been suspicious for a long time, but one thing nags me constantly. Denmark is a small country, the trails are everywhere and also to be found in the skies above the homes of many prominent politicians etc.... unless they have a secret antidote (dont hink so) then they and thier families will also be affected. why would they accept that? it does'nt make sense to allow the spraying of poison knowing that it will affect ones own family.
just something that bugs me, no more... G

[Icecold]

The trails are a result of unprecedented air traffic over Europe which has been a result of the increase in flights and aircraft in our skies.


Dumping fuel is perfectly normal. It needs to be understood that the maximum takeoff weight differs from the maximum landing weight. If for some reason the aircraft has to return, or land before its intended destination fuel will need to be dumped to get below or under the maximum authorized landing weight.


BTW. The fuel dumping is a bad thing, it is a plausible theory that aircraft fuel is carcinogenic and therefore a BAD THING!

But this is a long way from saying that there is a deliberate policy of bio genocide of entire populations!

BUNK!!!!

[T Smith]

I'm not going to add anything smart or scientific. I see these trails all over denmark and have been suspicious for a long time, but one thing nags me constantly. Denmark is a small country, the trails are everywhere and also to be found in the skies above the homes of many prominent politicians etc.... unless they have a secret antidote (dont hink so) then they and thier families will also be affected. why would they accept that? it does'nt make sense to allow the spraying of poison knowing that it will affect ones own family.
just something that bugs me, no more... G

Some politicians have addressed the matter.

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-//EP//TEXT+WQ+E-2007-2455+0+DOC+XML+V0//EN

In the United States, Dennis Kucinich also attempted to introduce legislation against Chemtrails, among other things: H.R. 2977. See page 5, line 15...

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-107hr2977ih/pdf/BILLS-107hr2977ih.pdf/

The PTB minions then modified this bill in the eleveth hour to take out any reference to Chemtrails. Sometimes the forces that effectively silence this phenomenon are bigger than any political action. I'm not exactly sure what's going on with the whole Chemtrail thing, but I'm not surprised at all that politicians are mute on the matter.

[T Smith]

Visit the following URL:

http://www.carnicom.com/

This is a good compilation of scientific evidence to get a handle on what's going on in the skies.

[andrewgreen]

Ive seen enough chem-trails to believe they are more than aircraft dumping fuel. Obviously they are not immediately dangerous but I don't believe the intention is beneficial for humanity.

[blufire]

There was a time Icecold that I did not believe in chemtrails and I too thought it was a bunch of hogwash.

But I could not deny the actuality when you wake up to a clear blue sky and then four planes begin to fly over and back and forth, forming an almost perfect “grid” pattern and within a couple hours the sky is completely overcast.

I have personally seen this several times.

I have seen the “dust” and/or “flakes” that look a little like vermiculite settle on my equipment and tops of my high tunnels and a skim on the ponds if the water is still. Sometimes there is no visible residue at all.

I have seen planes flying and forming a “chemtrail” or if you wish a contrail and then the trail just “shuts off” and the plane can still be seen. I don’t think that is possible with contrails :p

I don’t know why “they” are spraying or what they are spraying but I know they are and that it consists of different components at different times.

I have my own personal thoughts and musings but no scientific “proof”.

I will try to get pictures the next time it happens . . . . it is very dramatic when you see a “checkerboard” in the sky.

By the way . . . . this happens at my farm in Kansas . . . . the bread basket of the US

[13th Warrior]

I wonder where all the aluminum and barium is coming from then?

A documentary about chemtrail spraying:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jf0khstYDLA

You should also research "Geo Engineering"


The problem with the new age movement is that a bunch of fairy-loving myth readers want to convince you that they understand science or natural phenomena. They have no clue outside of fairy tales or hysteria peddling.



For those of us who have "no clue" you've only proven to discredit yourself with this statement; perhaps you will think twice next time before using such words...

[Ahkenaten]

I used to think the chemtrail business was a bit of over-exercised imaginative bunk, too............until one day I sat outside for hours watching the sky. I saw planes creating a grid pattern - and actually saw them turn around and double-back to create the parallel lines. I also saw the 'contrail' on one sputter out and stop, only to resume when the plane was back in position to continue on with its grid-making. Since then I have paid closer attention - especially when I observe the grid patterns, which I have seen in all parts of the US. I have NOT observed these patterns in Mexico or South America. I have observed other phenomenon connected to these grids but will not go into that here. I do not have enough information (or know any trustworthy insiders I can speak with) to come to the conclusion from this that materials toxic to humans are deliberately being sprayed by these planes. I DO however note the grid patterns and that they are deliberately being created for some reason.

The only reasonable hint I have found in all my reading on this subject is that supposedly (I am not able to verify this statement however) Edward Teller, inventor of the H Bomb, had recommended to the US government that such sprayed grids be put up to reflect back/deflect electromagnetic bursts entering the atmosphere from the Sun as a protective measure. As I recall, Rich Hoagland said that. I had thought once of looking into the commodities markets to see if there had been some inexplicable spike in the price/value of various minerals ostensibly being sprayed (barium, etc.) to see if there might be any connection, thinking that the way things are, the mere demand for certain commodities would cause certain human activities to take on a life of its own based on the profit motive REGARDLESS of benefits or not (example, the so-called nuclear industry!!) - but I do not have the skill to analyze that kind of data.

Anyway, no one flying a jet makes a complete turn in the opposite direction for no reason, especially a few of them. The only time I was ever on a plane that did a complete 360-degree turn was in the Andes when the pilot learned that he was unable to land at the Cuzco airport due to poor visibility, so back we went to La Paz........it cannot be mere coincidence and normal air traffic that accounts for ALL of the grid patterns we are seeing in the skies of the so-called "Developed World."

[blufire]

Few more thoughts . . . . .

The Kansa farm is no where near an airport.

I see “single” or “double” chemtrails fairly often when at my farm in the Appalachian Mountains. But in these mountains you can see very little of the sky or not as large expanse of the sky as in Kansas. Also there is no crop land and the population is very minimal . . . . mostly coal miners and gas line workers and families.

I see the chemtrails as much in the winter as in the summer . . . so they are not “seasonal”.

I began seeing them about four or five years ago and only became a believer in the phenomenon about a year and a half ago.

[raparee]

This is a tough one ,is it real?, is it not? some speculate it is for radiation protection , or weather modification,or a catalyst for Haarp the list goes on and on .I personally believe it is real but I know from experience that I could spend a year researching it reading all the scientific data and the opinions of experts and I would end up in the same position that I am right now, not knowing what its purpose is. This plays right into the TPTB mo, keep them guessing, let them fight amongst themselves about it, scare the crap out of them, ridicule them with outlandish claims, a drunk pilot, yeah and crop circles created by two drunken men. I agree with some previous posters that whatever they are spraying falls on ALL people so it is likely that we do not have to succumb to fear. My own personal opinion is that it may be tied in with with the elites super weapon which is GM crops, which I am sure you are all aware cannot grow without being sprayed with patented chemicals. Assuming for a moment that this operation is real, could its purpose be to change the nature of soil world wide that ONLY GM crops would grow in the future? Could it be that after the expected earth changes and resultant pollution that the only crops that could be grown would be GM crops? I don"t know, what I do know is that the elite always post their intentions and I invite everyone to check out this mural from the Denver airport where they have laid our their plans for us and let me know what you think http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/esp_sociopol_denver05.htm go about 2/3 s of the way down the page for the section on GM crops

[Ahkenaten]

It would be convenient to dismiss all theories about plans to exterminate us in mass numbers as the ravings of paranoid lunatics but unfortunately there is enough information available to suggest that this, in fact, is exactly what is occurring - whether it be a CONSCIOUS, deliberate, intentional diabolical and destructive plan of certain elites or not!! Remember that Bill Clinton, a figurehead for the elites, mindlessly gorged himself on McDonald's hamburgers leading to coronary artery disease and heart surgery......so the "HARD RAIN" is gonna fall on us all; 'elites' of all stripes, reptilians, hybrids, military personnel, CIA agents, CIA/NSA agent wanna-bees, clerks, babies in prams, nannies, kids in baseball uniforms, etc. IGNORANCE is the root of the problem....and there are actual organized and destructive human activities on going that ARE taking a toll on the human genome and the earth that has supported and nurtured us. That is not a mere fantasy of some delusional new-age kooks, it is real. Examples? The Gulf Oil Spill last year....even if it was an accident, it is stupid to drill at such depths, it is a profit motive (RX - human greed+human ingorance+misuse of advanced technology=disaster) that is the driver. Ditto the Nuke catastrophe unfolding in Japan....same driver, same human dark-side underpinnings.

It may be too late to save us. We may have destroyed ourselves and only have ourselves (humanity in general, and specifically those decision-makers and all their slaves) to blame.

Chemtrails and who does what is only one segment of the problem..........we need to refocus on the big picture here. If we HAVE in fact committed hiri-kiri or seppeku, at least in the last moments of clarity we need to understand exactly what happened, why, and what is responsible for the horrific situation we find ourselves in - and HORRIFIC it is.

At least we should learn from what has happened and take responsibility. Yeah - someone has conspired to kill us alright - and it is our own DARK side that these forces playing out in the real world around us are but manifestations of.

[gardunk]

Haarp states that it is an ionospheric heater and I have seen the sundogs that come shortly after the trails are laid out and then comes the smear to the sky and the end of another sunny day/more than meets the eye indeed and yet to debunk the whole thing as fairy airy science is just another form of cognative dissonance!

[TimC.]

Again another opinion that causes a lot of stress amongst the Avolonian community. I personally disagree with you Icecold because to me, it is all "plane" to see. But then again it is my reality and my truth, so I never expect anyone to see the world as I do. I'm not happy with knowing what could possibly be the outcome of all this spraying, I'd rather see it in your view to be quite honest. I don't have the smoking gun or any physical proof that there is a so called "secret" project to reduce the population.

But I was not born yesterday and neither are the millions of people that have come to such a conclusion, as to what is going on in the skies. More air traffic? Okay, can't argue there. But for the longest time the argument has been contrails only form at a certain elevation due to temperature. And the trail lasts a mere 30 secs to a minute at most. So now that argument is out the window that these trails spanding the entire sky are simple contrails. They spread out and are visible for hours upon hours. So what's the argument now? Can't be more air traffic. Tic-Tac-Toe grid patterns, only once or twice a month though. Most of the time they're staight patterns hidden above the clouds. And others times it's blaitingly done in blue skies. Planes fly every hour, everyday above Toronto and yet there is only spraying every 2-4 days. Implying that there is a specific agenda with these flight patterns.

Just the way I see it. I can't physically stop it but I get people to question it, and that's all I can do really. We all have a purpose in life and I totally except your opinion. We couldn't all think alike. Anyway, It's not like you are not in the know, that's the first part. 90% of the population is however.

Cheers

[Mike]

i live near an airport. in fact, planes often fly directly over my house before they land. this hardly makes me a chemtrail expert, but it gives me a unique perspective as an observer. and like Ahkenaten, i've actually spent a few hours outside - just observing.

what i've observed is very suspicious. like other posters, i have seen what appear to be intelligent patterns in the sky(mainly x patterns). but what really gets me is this: there were a couple nice days here in upstate ny recently, almost identical days(sunny, bright blue sky, approx 30 degrees). air traffic was similiar on both of these days. yet, while one day revealed an almost flawless blue sky with no markings, the other looked like a damn tic-tac-toe board. i cannot think of any rational explanation for my observations.

[ghostrider]

use your own mind, they say tptb are spreading barium/ other chemicals to create a shield from radiation caused by the sun/nibiru. It could be the canvas for the hologram/fake alien invasion plan. I wonder what the effects really are? What happens to aluminum when microwaved? They could set the sky on fire and retreat to their D.U.M.B.S. There are so many paths, the truth will always be hidden, our perception is the only variable. One thing is sure, they are spraying something everywhere, and fake clouds surround the planet, when is the last time you saw a clear blue sky for eight hours?

[conk]

Sorry Icecold, I disagree. Why would a plane fly over the same area over and over and over, laying down these trails that do not diminish over the whole day. A bright, sunny day at 8am, only to have a completely washed out sky by lunch time. They are very deliberate with their patterns. They are doing something odd, there is no doubt. An evil plot? Perhaps not. But why no answers at all? Or pretend it is not happening?

[SKAWF]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrI9h8yCqdI

this is what i saw out of my window.
i doubt that any of it is natural cloud.
nor is it disinformation.
they are changing the sky/atmosphere.

[Neal]

I'm not sure what they are spraying, but it really angers me whenever I see the planes dumping endless streams of crap from their wings. Notice I didn't say their engines, since they fly low enough over my house that I can pick out with my eyes the actual four spraying nozzles on the back of the wings. More specifically, there are more often two engine planes with only a few four engine 747s spraying the chemtrails. I have stood outside and watched many planes at once flying around leaving endless trails, sometimes turning them on and off as they fly through the sky.

The planes are so close and flying slowly that there wingspan looks to be about an inch to an inch and half wide from the ground, meaning they are not flying at commercial jet traffic height. I've watched as many as 9 distinct different planes spraying chemtrails turning around going north to south and south to north many, many times. Most often I will see about 4-5 planes, but 9 was the most I've seen at once. There was one time where an actual line of 5 different planes flew over my house in a line one directly behind the other each leaving a line in the sky.

It really angers me to see this blatant dumping going on. My theory is that it could be barium, aluminum, arsenic or some other chemicals to dumb us down further or perform a "slow-kill" on our population. However, I think that another possibility that I do not see discussed much is the dumping of hazardous waste products. Just like the military-industrial complex gets rid of their uranium nuclear fuel waste through the illegal use of Depleted Uranium munitions that are fired off in Iraq, Afghanistan and now Libya, I would not put it past the PTB to dump other costly hazardous waste into the skies rather than pay to dispose of it properly. What do you all think about this theory?

I do NOT believe that this is for weather modification or some BS statement about "protecting us from solar radiation" when this is not done in third world countries. This has allegedly only been noticed over developed countries.

[Ahkenaten]

I guess the people living in undeveloped countries aren't as lucky as us to have governments so anxious to take these measures to.....to do whatever it is they are doing at such obvious expense (our money of course, no problemo!)

Oh I get it, the people in those undeveloped countries and their governments just aren't as advanced as us yet??!! Or maybe they just aren't worth 'saving', let alone getting rid of?

[Fred259]

Sorry Icecold, I disagree. Why would a plane fly over the same area over and over and over, laying down these trails that do not diminish over the whole day. A bright, sunny day at 8am, only to have a completely washed out sky by lunch time.
If the atmosphere relative humidity is 75% for example contrails will not form. A small jet trail may be visible but dissipates in around 15 seconds or less or may not even be visible at all.

If the atmosphere relative humidity lasts all day, 2, 4, or 6 days at say 75% still no contrails will form.

If the relative humidity in the atmosphere is close to 100% contrails will form, and will dissipate slowly over a few hours.


If the relative humidity in the atmosphere is 100% the contrail will form and will dissipate over time and form very thin cirrus cloud. (Clouds only form when RH is 100%)

If fifty aircraft fly through this atmosphere where the relative humidity is close to 100% or 100% fifty contrails will form and will dissipate over a few hours into cirrus cloud and then due to increased air traffic into cirrostratus cloud.


They are very deliberate with their patterns. They are doing something odd, there is no doubt. An evil plot? Perhaps not. But why no answers at all? Or pretend it is not happening?

The very deliberate patterns are caused by the navigational tracks they are flying.

[Fred259]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrI9h8yCqdI

[QUOTE]this is what i saw out of my window.

I Agree. Was this filmed today SKAWF?


i doubt that any of it is natural cloud.

I Agree. Clouds are formed by either convection, that is heating of the ground by the sun, convection and air cooling as it rises and forming a cloud. Or by orographic uplift, that is an air mass being forced to rise over mountains, followed by the air cooling as it rises and forming a cloud.

These clouds have not been formed by convection or orographic uplift but by aircraft flying in the atmosphere where relative humidity was close to 100%. Contrails linger, they slowly dissipate, no upper winds, they may last all day. Increased air traffic means more contrails, eventually spreading to cirrus cloud. (Perhaps a bit of convection occurred because it’s a warm day in London, but in general what he has filmed has been formed by contrails)


Nor is it disinformation.

I Agree.


They are changing the sky/atmosphere.

I Agree. The institute of Mechanical Engineers, Cranfield University and Rolls Royce Plc are researching this, and are conducting trials to mitigate same.
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...-research.html

Appreciate however that if the relative humidity was less than 100% the contrails wouldn’t form at all, or if the upper winds increased they would just blow away.

[norman]

Passenger jets with special nozzles fitted to the wings spraying long lasting trails from a regular 30k hight......

Rules out fuel dumping and crop spraying.

That's about all I know for sure.

[SKAWF]

that was filmed about two weeks ago.

its fairly regular.
that was by far the most congested day ive seen though.
no pattern to it, just dumped.
its interesting to see how the trails interfere with sunlight.
i have noticed that its harder to see the sun these days.
maybe thats part of it?, to deny the planet of sunlight.
or specific energy.

why would someone want to mist up the skies though?
why wouldnt they say anything about it?
its a bit rich though, dumping that level of stuff into the atmosphere,
then telling me ive got to change my lightbulbs.

[Dennis Jonathan]

The imagination is an amazing thing. Think about it. If I say to you "There was a skyscraper made of chocolate ice cream, with a giant cherry on top" what image pops in your mind?

Now think about creating that reality. Not so easy.

The imagination can be our greatest strength, or a detractor. The focus is the key. The lies cause distraction.

Is there a chance that something we don't know about is taking place in our skies? Of course. Is it as sinister as some believe? Maybe, but probably not.

I have something in my home. I keep it in a very special place. It has even saved my life. No one else in the world has it. Almost no one knows where I keep it, and I like it that way. If something were to happen to it, I would be affected physically and emotionally. I really don't talk about it often, if ever, but its really important to me.

I love my toothbrush.

What did you think it was? Gingivitis kills, it keeps me safe :P

When we are left to our own imaginations, the creation is often much grander than reality, for better or worse.

Let's focus our energy on the better :)

[Fred259]

that was filmed about two weeks ago.

why would someone want to mist up the skies though?

They are contrails, perfectly natural I will post up a chart shortly.


Why wouldnt they say anything about it?

Why would they. It’s perfectly normal. But here are questions and answers from the European parliament.

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/...DOC+XML+V0//EN



its a bit rich though, dumping that level of stuff into the atmosphere,

Its just moisture turning to clouds due to 100% relative humidity. If the RH was less than 100% it would be clear.



then telling me ive got to change my lightbulbs.

Aye I know, you canny even buy a 100watt light bulb in Camerons Britain.



Check this site out. Let it load and click on the aircraft.
http://planefinder.net/


All those heavies from east coast US will be in London / Europe from 06.00GMT

Get up early tomorrow! From 05.00GMT London will be chocked…

US getting busy building up for the evening rush

Look at Wyoming Montana, guys heading up to Anchorage and Subic Bay.

Colorado, Kansas, Missouri, New Mexico, East West Traffic

Europe is still busy approaching midnight GMT

This software is not very accurate, not every aircraft is listed.

[SKAWF]

i know what a contrail is.
i know what a chemtrail is.
i know the difference between a standard commercial flight path.
and a grid formation

contrails dissapate into nothing.
chemtrails spread out, and fall.

thats another thing, if contrails occur as a result of very hot air vapourising ice in the air,
why is it, that a chemtrail would be denser than the air around it?
why do they not disappear into nothing.

you wont get me to accept they are contrails.
purely and simply because i know the differences between the two.

steve

[DeDukshyn]

The problem with the new age movement is that a bunch of fairy-loving myth readers want to convince you that they understand science or natural phenomena. They have no clue outside of fairy tales or hysteria peddling.
Original thread here.....
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?17730-Chemtrail-pilot-talks

Obviously the starter of this thread is more into bashing specific groups than he is into learning about the difference in chemtrails/contrails. Sorry Ice, I'd love to participate, but not like this at Avalon.

[Fred259]

How Contrails are formed.

1) Wet & Dry Bulb Thermometer.

What is happening in the upper atmosphere is exactly the same as the wet and dry bulb thermometer on your doorstep.

When the wet and dry temperatures come together the atmosphere is super saturated and relative humidity is 100%. Moisture that was previously held in the atmosphere in a gaseous state now turns to liquid. With increased cooling in the atmosphere the moisture will turn to mist.

Further cooling will turn the mist to fog. Relative humidity is 100%. Mist and Fog are the same. The difference is Mist has a forward visibility of one nautical mile or more (6,080 feet). It’s called Fog when forward visibility is reduced below one nautical mile. Further cooling will cause the moisture to turn to ice.

For the benefit of Australians this is what happens in colder latitudes. In the early morning frost or ice covers the ground. At sunrise the temperature starts to increase, causing the overnight fog to thicken. This is caused by convection (heating) and mixing of light winds, speed 2-6 knots. Relative humidity is 100%

Increased inbound radiation from the sun will cause the Fog to dissipate changing to Mist, normally by 10.00hrs local time with increased forward visibility. Relative humidity is now approx 90% Further heating from the sun and increased convection causes the mist to further dissipate. Relative humidity approx 80% The water droplets previously held in suspension in the atmosphere as fog and then mist, still exist, however now they exist in a gaseous state.

The wet bulb temp (called the dew point) might be -2C the dry bulb temp might be +2C. Mist and fog will NOT form under these conditions. Relative humidity approx 80% When the sun goes down the temperature decreases towards the dew point or wet bulb temperature, of -2C in our example and Mist will form. Further cooling will cause Fog with Relative humidity 100%

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet-bulb_temperature


2) Aircraft Departs - What happens?

Precisely the same is happening at the local airport as the wet & dry bulb thermometer on your doorstep. Aircraft departs, and in the climb contrails don’t form. Why? Because the relative humidity is less than 100%. Temperature pressure and density all decrease with increasing altitude, and so above 25,000 feet the temperature might be around -35C and circa -60C at 36,000 feet.

If the relative humidity is much less than 100% contrails will NOT form.

If the relative humidity is close to 100% contrails WILL form.

If the relative humidity is 100% upper level clouds WILL form.


The Tephigram Chart. It’s a chart prepared by a Meteorological officer detailing the state of the upper atmosphere. From this he can work out cloud levels and the weather. They send up a radiosonde balloon which records this data or call a passing aircraft and ask for the temps and pressure (T&Ps).

The red line is the dry bulb temp in the atmosphere, just the same as the dry bulb thermometer on your doorstep.

The blue line is the wet bulb temp in the atmosphere. They call this dew point temperature. Both lines are from ground level to 40,000 feet on this chart.

When the red and blue lines are separated no clouds or contrails will ever form. This is because relative humidity is much less than 100%

If the blue line moves to the right of the red line the atmosphere is super saturated with 100% relativity humidity and clouds and contrails will form from ground level to 40,000feet.



7033

Wet & Dry Bulb Temps. Ground level to 40,000ft3) Example

In this example looking at the pressure altitude scale in the right hand column we can see that from ground level to 13,000ft the red and blue lines are separated. (Bottom of the chart) Relative humidity is approx 75% and no clouds or contrails will form. Never.

At 13,000 feet the red and blue lines come together. Dry bulb -11C and Wet bulb temp -11C, so they are both the same here the atmosphere is super saturated 100% relative humidity and a cloud base will form and a contrail will also form. Always.

At 20,000 feet the red and blue line start to part Dry Bulb –25C and wet bulb temp -25C This is the tops of the cloud. Between 13,000 feet and 20,000 feet we were either in cloud or pulling a contrail. Always.

Above 20,000 to 40,000 on this chart relative humidity is 75% for example so no clouds or contrail will ever form. Why? Because the blue and red lines are well separated.


On this chart at 8,000 feet Relative humidity is 75% so no contrail will form. At 18,000 relative humidity is 100% in a super saturated atmosphere so a contrail will form. The aircraft will contrail all day as long as relative humidity remains 100%. On this chart at 30,000 feet no contrail will form because Relative humidity is 75%

Only four fluids are ever discharged from aircraft at altitude.

Water vapor and soot’s from the engine exhausts. Continuously .
Fuel very occasionally may be dumped in an emergency only.
Soiled dirty water. Occasionally from galleys and kitchens.
Fowl dirty water. Occasionally from toilets. (NB Water only)

Nothing else is ever injected from any aircraft. If you look in the sky and see a jet trail you know this is a contrail and just like the dry and wet bulb on your doorstep relative humidity is 100% and it’s a super saturated atmosphere at that altitude.

I hope this helps. We must stop believing the misinformation disinformation and lies relating to this subject. We need to remember what Charles told Bill. “They are drinking scotch smoking cigars and laughing at us” Hopefully no longer you.

Who’s flying over my farm? What’s his flight number?
Check here. Live update.
http://planefinder.net/

PS It takes a few seconds loading..

[Icecold]

i know what a contrail is.
i know what a chemtrail is.
i know the difference between a standard commercial flight path.
and a grid formation

contrails dissapate into nothing.
chemtrails spread out, and fall.

thats another thing, if contrails occur as a result of very hot air vapourising ice in the air,
why is it, that a chemtrail would be denser than the air around it?
why do they not disappear into nothing.

you wont get me to accept they are contrails.
purely and simply because i know the differences between the two.

steve


I get your point and I think you know what you see is not a result of contrails.

However, it may be cloud seeding....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_seeding


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4c/Cloud_Seeding.svg/500px-Cloud_Seeding.svg.png

Cloud seeding, a form of weather modification, is the attempt to change the amount or type of precipitation that falls from clouds, by dispersing substances into the air that serve as cloud condensation or ice nuclei, which alter the microphysical processes within the cloud. The usual intent is to increase precipitation (rain or snow), but hail and fog suppression are also widely practiced in airports. Terpenes are released by trees more actively during warmer weather, acting as a natural form of cloud seeding. The clouds reflect sunlight, allowing the forest to regulate its temperature.

How cloud seeding works

The most common chemicals used for cloud seeding include silver iodide and dry ice (frozen carbon dioxide). The expansion of liquid propane into a gas has also been used and can produce ice crystals at higher temperatures than silver iodide. The use of hygroscopic materials, such as salt, s increasing in popularity.

Seeding of clouds requires that they contain supercooled liquid water—that is, liquid water colder than zero degrees Celsius. Introduction of a substance such as silver iodide, which has a crystalline structure similar to that of ice, will induce freezing nucleation. Dry ice or propane expansion cools the air to such an extent that ice crystals can nucleate spontaneously from the vapor phase. Unlike seeding with silver iodide, this spontaneous nucleation does not require any existing droplets or particles because it produces extremely high vapor supersaturations near the seeding substance. However, the existing droplets are needed for the ice crystals to grow into large enough particles to precipitate out.
In mid-latitude clouds, the usual seeding strategy has been predicated upon the fact that the equilibrium vapor pressure is lower over ice than over water. When ice particles form in supercooled clouds, this fact allows the ice particles to grow at the expense of liquid droplets. If there is sufficient growth, the particles become heavy enough to fall as snow (or, if melting occurs, rain) from clouds that otherwise would produce no precipitation. This process is known as "static" seeding.
Seeding of warm-season or tropical cumulonimbus (convective) clouds seeks to exploit the latent heat released by freezing. This strategy of "dynamic" seeding assumes that the additional latent heat adds buoyancy, strengthens updrafts, ensures more low-level convergence, and ultimately causes rapid growth of properly selected clouds.
Cloud seeding chemicals may be dispersed by aircraft (as in the second figure) or by dispersion devices located on the ground (generators, as in first figure, or canisters fired from anti-aircraft guns or rockets). For release by aircraft, silver iodide flares are ignited and dispersed as an aircraft flies through the inflow of a cloud. When released by devices on the ground, the fine particles are carried downwind and upwards by air currents after release.

An electronic mechanism was tested in 2010, when infrared laser pulses were directed to the air above Berlin by researchers from the University of Geneva. The experimenters posited that the pulses would encourage atmospheric sulfur dioxide and nitrogen dioxide to form particles that would then act as seeds

Impact on environment and health

With an NFPA 704 rating of Blue 2, silver iodide can cause temporary incapacitation or possible residual injury to humans and mammals with intense or continued but not chronic exposure. However, there have been several detailed ecological studies that showed negligible environmental and health impacts.[10][11][12] The toxicity of silver and silver compounds (from silver iodide) was shown to be of low order in some studies. These findings likely result from the minute amounts of silver generated by cloud seeding, which are 100 times less than industry emissions into the atmosphere in many parts of the world, or individual exposure from tooth fillings.[13]
Accumulations in the soil, vegetation, and surface runoff have not been large enough to measure above natural background.[14] A 1995 environmental assessment in the Sierra Nevada of California[15] and a 2004 independent panel of experts (an overview only is presented in the executive summary of the research) in Australia confirmed these earlier findings.
Cloud seeding over Kosciuszko National Park - a Biosphere Reserve - is problematic in that several rapid changes of environmental legislation were made to enable the "trial." Environmentalists are concerned about the uptake of elemental silver in a highly sensitive environment affecting the pygmy possum amongst other species as well as recent high level algal blooms in once pristine glacial lakes. The ABC program Earthbeat on 17 July 2004 heard that not every cloud has a silver lining where concerns for the health of the pygmy possums was raised. Research 50 years ago and analysis by the former Snowy Mountains Authority led to the cessation of the cloud seeding program in the 1950s with non-definitive results. Formerly, cloud seeding was rejected in Australia on environmental grounds because of concerns about the protected species, the pygmy possum. Since silver iodide and not elemental silver is the cloud seeding material, the claims of negative environmental impact are disputed by peer-reviewed research as summarized by the international weather modification association.

(Don't click on this link...right-click and save instead)
http://www.weathermodification.org/AGI_toxicity.pdf

Weather Modification...one project and its locations....

http://maps.google.co.in/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=114345538650175734842.00047f6342c83772ab091&ll=55.939759,-104.106445&spn=3.246472,4.833984&source=embed


Cloud Seeding around the World......

North America

In the United States, cloud seeding is used to increase precipitation in areas experiencing drought, to reduce the size of hailstones that form in thunderstorms, and to reduce the amount of fog in and around airports. Cloud seeding is also occasionally used by major ski resorts to induce snowfall. Eleven western states and one Canadian province (Alberta) have ongoing weather modification operational programs [1]. In January 2006, an $8.8 million cloud seeding project began in Wyoming to examine the effects of cloud seeding on snowfall over Wyoming's Medicine Bow, Sierra Madre, and Wind River mountain ranges.[31]
A number of commercial companies, such as Aero Systems Incorporated [2], Atmospherics Incorporated [3], North American Weather Consultants [4], Weather Modification Incorporated [5], Weather Enhancement Technologies International [6], Seeding Operations and Atmospheric Research (SOAR) [7], offer weather modification services centered on cloud seeding. The USAF proposed its use on the battlefield in 1996, although the U.S. signed an international treaty in 1978 banning the use of weather modification for hostile purposes.

During the sixties, Irving P. Krick & Associates operated a successful cloud seeding operation in the area around Calgary, Alberta. This utilized both aircraft and ground-based generators that pumped silver iodide into the atmosphere in an attempt to reduce the threat of hail damage. Ralph Langeman, Lynn Garrison, and Stan McLeod, all ex-members of the RCAF's 403 Squadron, attending the University of Alberta, spent their summers flying hail suppression. A number of surplus Harvard aircraft were fitted with racks under each wing containing 32 railroad fuzees that were impregnated with silver iodide. These could be ignited individually or all at once, depending upon the threat. In coordination with ground units, the aircraft would lay a plume of silver iodide in front of approaching cumulo-nimbus clouds with noticeable effect. Large, active CBs were reduced to nothing. Heavy hail storms were reduced in intensity. This effective program was funded by farmer contributions and government grants.[citation needed]


Europe

Cloud seeding was begun in France during the 1950s with the intent of reducing hail damage to crops. The ANELFA project consists of local agencies acting within a non-profit organization.[32] A similar project in Spain is managed by the Consorcio por la Lucha Antigranizo de Aragon.[32] The success of the French program was supported by insurance data; that of the Spanish program in studies conducted by the Spanish Agricultural Ministry.[32]

Russian military pilots seeded clouds over Belarus after the Chernobyl disaster to remove radioactive particles from clouds heading toward Moscow.[33] At the July 2006 G8 Summit, President Putin commented that air force jets had been deployed to seed incoming clouds so they rained over Finland. Rain drenched the summit anyway.[34] In Moscow, the Russian Airforce tried seeding clouds with bags of cement on June 17, 2008. One of the bags did not pulverize and went through the roof of a house.[35] In October 2009, the Mayor of Moscow promised a "winter without snow" for the city after revealing efforts by the Russian Air Force to seed the clouds upwind from Moscow throughout the winter.[36]


Australia

In Australia, CSIRO’s activities in Tasmania in the 1960s were successful.[37] Seeding over the Hydro-Electricity Commission catchment area on the Central Plateau achieved rainfall increases as high as 30% in autumn. The Tasmanian experiments were so successful that the Commission has regularly undertaken seeding ever since in mountainous parts of the State.
In 2004, Snowy Hydro Limited began a trial of cloud seeding to assess the feasibility of increasing snow precipitation in the Snowy Mountains in Australia.[38] The test period, originally scheduled to end in 2009, was later extended to 2014.[38] The New South Wales (NSW) Natural Resources Commission, responsible for supervising the cloud seeding operations, believes that the trial may have difficulty establishing statistically whether cloud seeding operations are increasing snowfall. This project was discussed at a summit in Narrabri, NSW on 1 December 2006. The summit met with the intention of outlining a proposal for a 5 year trial, focussing on Northern NSW.
The various implications of such a widespread trial were discussed, drawing on the combined knowledge of several worldwide experts, including representatives from the Tasmanian Hydro Cloud Seeding Project however does not make reference to former cloud seeding experiments by the then Snowy Mountains Authority which rejected weather modification. The trial required changes to NSW environmental legislation in order to facilitate placement of the cloud seeding apparatus. The modern experiment is not supported for the Australian Alps.
In December 2006, the Queensland government of Australia announced A$7.6 million in funding for "warm cloud" seeding research to be conducted jointly by the Australian Bureau of Meteorology and the United States National Center for Atmospheric Research.[39] Outcomes of the study are hoped to ease continuing drought conditions in the states South East region.
[edit]

Africa

In Mali and Niger, cloud seeding is also being used on a national scale.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/eb/Cloudseedingimagerevised.jpg/400px-Cloudseedingimagerevised.jpg


The chemtrail conspiracy theory holds that some trails left by aircraft are actually chemical or biological agents deliberately sprayed at high altitudes for a purpose undisclosed to the general public in clandestine programs directed by government officials.

As a result, official agencies have received thousands of complaints from people who have demanded an explanation. The existence of chemtrails has been repeatedly denied by government agencies and scientists around the world, who say the trails are normal contrails.


The United States Air Force maintains that the theory is a hoax which "has been investigated and refuted by many established and accredited universities, scientific organizations, and major media publications".

The British Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs has stated that chemtrails "are not scientifically recognised phenomena".

The Canadian Leader of the Government in the House of Commons has stated that "The term 'chemtrails' is a popularised expression, and there is no scientific evidence to support their existence."

The term chemtrail is derived from "chemical trail" in the similar fashion that contrail is an abbreviation for condensation trail. It does not refer to common forms of aerial spraying such as crop dusting, cloud seeding, skywriting, or aerial firefighting.

The term specifically refers to aerial trails allegedly caused by the systematic high-altitude release of chemical substances not found in ordinary contrails, resulting in the appearance of uncharacteristic sky tracks. Supporters of this theory speculate that the purpose of the chemical release may be for solar radiation management, population control,[1] weather control,[2] or biological warfare/chemical warfare and claim that these trails are causing respiratory illnesses and other health problems.

[blufire]

There’s just one rather large flaw in the “cloud seeding” explanation Icecold

There has to be CLOUDS in the sky for them to SEED and the resulting conclusion of such seeding is RAIN.

MANY times when I have seen the “chemtrails” they start with a crystal clear blue sky with NO clouds to be seen.

AND after these “manufactured clouds” are formed I have never seen rain fall from them. Although, I have seen “vermiculite or sandy” like residue fall from the clouds, but never rain . . . in my experience. Let me clarify, I don’t actually see the stuff falling through the air, but several hours later the “residue” is all over my equipment, high tunnels, etc . . Not on all occasions, but I’d say around 40% of the time I find physical “evidence” of the “chemtrails”

I have watched this phenomenon closely for several years. Again I only have theories (just like others) on WHY “they” are spraying but I know proof positive that “something” is being sprayed and “they” started only a few years ago.

I am outside much more than I’m inside and year around and I watch closely the weather and nature around me.

These “clouds” or “trails” are NOT normal and only started . . . . maybe 5 or 6 years ago. Also, they have intensified in the last three or four years.

I think I should also clarify that I have NEVER experienced any ill effects from this residue. I have breathed it and cleaned it off my equipment. Also, I haven’t seen it have ill effects on my animals. I do however have on ongoing concern on what large quantities of the “elements” could have on my topsoil and organic nature of the produce we grow. For that reason I do regular testing and we are growing more and more in protected and controlled environments such as High Tunnels and I’m testing my pond water and developing a means of filtration when and if the time comes that it is needed.

[Calz]

There’s just one rather large flaw in the “cloud seeding” explanation Icecold

There has to be CLOUDS in the sky for them to SEED and the resulting conclusion of such seeding is RAIN.

MANY times when I have seen the “chemtrails” they start with a crystal clear blue sky with NO clouds to be seen.

AND after these “manufactured clouds” are formed I have never seen rain fall from them. Although, I have seen “vermiculite or sandy” like residue fall from the clouds, but never rain . . . in my experience. Let me clarify, I don’t actually see the stuff falling through the air, but several hours later the “residue” is all over my equipment, high tunnels, etc . . Not on all occasions, but I’d say around 40% of the time I find physical “evidence” of the “chemtrails”

I have watched this phenomenon closely for several years. Again I only have theories (just like others) on WHY “they” are spraying but I know proof positive that “something” is being sprayed and “they” started only a few years ago.

I am outside much more than I’m inside and year around and I watch closely the weather and nature around me.

These “clouds” or “trails” are NOT normal and only started . . . . maybe 5 or 6 years ago. Also, they have intensified in the last three or four years.

I think I should also clarify that I have NEVER experienced any ill effects from this residue. I have breathed it and cleaned it off my equipment. Also, I haven’t seen it have ill effects on my animals. I do however have on ongoing concern on what large quantities of the “elements” could have on my topsoil and organic nature of the produce we grow. For that reason I do regular testing and we are growing more and more in protected and controlled environments such as High Tunnels and I’m testing my pond water and developing a means of filtration when and if the time comes that it is needed.

blufire makes good points of personal observation.

I am 55 years old and though my memory ain't what it used to be *CLEARLY* remember when clear skies were actually clear blue skies (and stayed that way all day regardless of how many airliners were in the sky).

At some point (not sure if 5 or 6 years but probably close) something changed.

Contrails have been around a long long time with jet technology going back to WW2. It is also quite obvious when BOTH types of planes are in the air. Contrails disipate within minutes and chemtrails linger for hours.

Cloud seeding has been around a long long time.

If either of those were responsible then it would have started showing up many years earlier.

Weather warfare is an undeniable fact with countries boldly pronouncing control over weather on certain events.

Going back to 1997 - http://dprogram.net/2010/01/23/former-secretary-of-defense-william-cohen-admits-to-eco-terrorism-man-made-earthquakes/


In April of 1997 United States Secretary of Defense William S. Cohen said: “Others are engaging even in an eco-type of terrorism whereby they can alter the climate, set off earthquakes, volcanoes remotely through the use of electromagnetic waves.” He made this statement at a conference on Terrorism, Weapons of Mass Destruction and U.S. Strategy in his official capacity as the US Secretary of Defense; thus this can be taken as an official position of the United States. Further he used the word “are,” not “could,” “might” or “maybe sometime in the future.” He further added: “It’s real, and that’s the reason why we have to intensify our efforts.” If the United States Secretary of Defense says that the earth and the sky have been turned into weapons, and are being used as such in present time, I believe we should take this statement very seriously…. See More

“WEATHER WARFARE: The Military’s Plan to Draft Mother Nature” is not “conspiracy theory.” This book has almost no theory and very little speculation. All the conclusions reached are the logical ones based on the presented facts.

Siting the same source as Ice did regarding cloud seeding there is great disperity between WHAT is used to seed clouds and WHAT has been confirmed in endless tests of residue on the ground (aluminum barium etc etc) from chemtrails.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_seeding


The most common chemicals used for cloud seeding include silver iodide and dry ice (frozen carbon dioxide). The expansion of liquid propane into a gas has also been used and can produce ice crystals at higher temperatures than silver iodide. The use of hygroscopic materials, such as salt, is increasing in popularity[citation needed] because of some promising research results[citation needed].

As always ... IMHO

[SKAWF]

i'm going to echo part of the above post. i clearly remember the mid 80's.
you could look up into the sky and it was a deeper and deeper blue until it got darker.
then a really fine mist at first, and now its gotten to the point where the sun is obscured by a reflecting mist.
have you any idea how much dumping would be needed to create that effect on a planetary scale?
and yet it seems to have been done.

i reckon that they are not contrails is a given.
cloud seeding....
i hadnt thought about the lack of clouds argument.
thats good enough.
but mine is, the effects of cloud seeding dissapate as well.
there is no stream of particulates left falling from the sky.
unless you count rain.

the thing that i'm refering to, when i say the word 'Chemtrails',
are the long streams that are left behind by planes.
streams that fall, spread out, do not dissapate naturally, and over time create a reflective mist.

i remember when the sky was pure blue.
it was about 25 years ago.

steve

[TigaHawk]

To the "It's just the humidity in the air and how long it takes the ice crystals to dissapate" people


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kcTvqiMNl8


Yeah.

[Calz]

To the "It's just the humidity in the air and how long it takes the ice crystals to dissapate" people




Humidity has been around awhile ... yes?

Contrails have been around while ... yes?

Something has changed.

It would seem sometimes there is a need to respectfully "agree to disagree".

If there is some logical explanation for changes made in the last decade then I am open minded to consider it ... but at this point it simply doesn't make sense.

To me ... IMHO :)

[Fred259]

To the "It's just the humidity in the air and how long it takes the ice crystals to dissapate" people


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kcTvqiMNl8

Indeed,yes. At the lower altitude relative humidity is 100% and the air is super saturated so the contrails form. At high altitude relative humidity is less so the trails don’t form.

It’s like being high on a mountain in clear sunshine while down in the valley its mist and fog. In the valley the RH is 100% supersaturated air, but not up the mountain.

[Calz]

Indeed,yes. At the lower altitude relative humidity is 100% and the air is super saturated so the contrails form. At high altitude relative humidity is less so the trails don’t form.

It’s like being high on a mountain in clear sunshine while down in the valley its mist and fog. In the valley the RH is 100% supersaturated air, but not up the mountain.

Not saying anyone is "wrong".

Simply asking that, if that were the true cause, then what has changed in the last decade?

And what explaination is there for the mineral residue on the ground (showing up in the same timeframe)?

*** adding ***

And as some have observed here (as well as plenty of video evidence) why in the world would planes turn around to create checkerboard patterns over cities???

I would really LOVE to hear an logical explanation for that???

[Fred259]

To the "It's just the humidity in the air and how long it takes the ice crystals to dissapate" people




Humidity has been around awhile ... yes?

Contrails have been around while ... yes?

Something has changed.

It would seem sometimes there is a need to respectfully "agree to disagree".

If there is some logical explanation for changes made in the last decade then I am open minded to consider it ... but at this point it simply doesn't make sense.

To me ... IMHO :)

I agree, four changes have happened over the last ten to fifteen years.

1) Air travel has increased dramatically particularly so low fare airlines.
2) Changes in airways and navigation procedures, leading to reduced lateral separation,
3) Three and four engine aircraft are being replaced with two engined aircraft or “twins” however the power output has doubled. Changes in engine design essentially.
4) Mass misinformation / deception on the internet.

[Calz]

I agree, four changes have happened over the last ten to fifteen years.

1) Air travel has increased dramatically particularly so low fare airlines.
2) Changes in airways and navigation procedures, leading to reduced lateral separation,
3) Three and four engine aircraft are being replaced with two engined aircraft or “twins” however the power output has doubled. Changes in engine design essentially.
4) Mass misinformation / deception on the internet.

Fair enough.

1) If it were a matter of degree then I would agree. If traffic doubled then the phenomenon would roughly double. I remember ZERO for much of my life.

2) I am not sure to what you refer ... so I have to pass on this one.

3) See number one.

4) Yep ... also a WHOLE LOTTA TRUTH compared to elite bought and paid for MSM ... yes?


From my later post ... what about the residue and checkboard patterns when it is observed on a regular basis the planes turning around to cover an area???

Ice crystals alchemically transformed into aluminum, barium and others?

[Fred259]

And as some have observed here (as well as plenty of video evidence) why in the world would planes turn around to create checkerboard patterns over cities???

I would really LOVE to hear an logical explanation for that???

Do you mean this for example.?


7046

It's a holding stack, this one in Australia. If you look carefuly I think six perhaps seven have been holding here south of Brisbane. Something has gone wrong at Brisbane, perhaps the last one landing burst a tyre or something, meanwhile all inbounds from Sydney must hold while they clear up the mess.


Here is the holding chart for Toowoomba; the actual hold is 16.5nm west of Toowoomba airport or if you look in the circle and the 9 o’clock position you will see the hold. Notice that the shape of the hold is the same photographs.

http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/...WBGN02-125.pdf

[realitycorrodes]

I don't know if this is relevant.

I live in Brisbane Australia - I see chem trails all the time. The weather in Brisbane is overcast 75% of the time now. When I first moved up here 10 years ago it was sunny 100% of the time.

I have been lying on a beach with 100% blue skies and seen a plane come along with no chem trail. Then it switches on a chem trail. Then it stops it. Flies back to where it started the first trail and switches on the chem trail again. It does this a few times. Within the next two hours all the blue sky as far as the eye can see is covered over with cloud. I know because I was lying out on the beach in order to sun bath.

This has happen personally to me two times.

Brisbane was the location of a terrible flood recently. Two or three days after the flood, there was an article in Brisbane's "Herald Sun Newspaper" that stated that the state of Queensland within which Brisbane is located, had bought clouding seeding technology of the King of Thailand. It goes on to say how the climate was similiar in Thailand and as such the technology should work in Brisbane.

This technology was bought the article says three years ago from Thailand.

Funny thing is, no-one I ever met seemed to connect the lack of sunny weather, the continual rain, and the terrible flood that caused thousands of dollars of damage to many river side businesses and householders with the cloud seeding technology/ chem trailing.

Maybe it is because Brisbane started to put fluoride in the water a few years ago? Or is that just a conspiracy not worth taking notice of as well??

[realitycorrodes]

The pictures above are not what I saw. The chem trail was switched off as it turned around - hence there was no circular section to the smoky chem trail as is shown in the picture above - just parallel lines (3 of them). Also the plane I saw was doing it just off shore at Tea tree bay noosa - nothing to do with Brisbane Airport.

[Calz]

And as some have observed here (as well as plenty of video evidence) why in the world would planes turn around to create checkerboard patterns over cities???

I would really LOVE to hear an logical explanation for that???

Do you mean this for example.?


7046

It's a holding stack, this one in Australia. If you look carefuly I think six perhaps seven have been holding here south of Brisbane. Something has gone wrong at Brisbane, perhaps the last one landing burst a tyre or something, meanwhile all inbounds from Sydney must hold while they clear up the mess.


Here is the holding chart for Toowoomba; the actual hold is 16.5nm west of Toowoomba airport or if you look in the circle and the 9 o’clock position you will see the hold. Notice that the shape of the hold is the same photographs.

http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/...WBGN02-125.pdf

Thank you again for respectfully providing a possible and logical explanation.

I live less than 2 miles from a medium sized city airport. I have looked up at the skies each and every day for the last 5+ years.

If planes circling for landing was the cause I would *GUESS* it would be quite obvious in cities all over the world. Correct? I don't know how many countries experience what we do here in the usa. ***IF*** it were simply a natural phenonenon of ice crystals, humidity and contrails then every airport in the world (considering humidity) should have that very same effect you showed on a daily basis. Yes?

There is plenty of footage of the *trails shutting off and back on (missing the u shaped portion of the pattern).

Perhaps different portions of the world are not effected at all???

I am simply offering my own personal observations (for the most part) as what blufire did.

I can see on many many occasions chemtrails START when a plane comes above the city I reside then STOPS when it has passed. Very clearly and on a regular basis.

[blufire]

To the "It's just the humidity in the air and how long it takes the ice crystals to dissapate" people




Humidity has been around awhile ... yes?

Contrails have been around while ... yes?

Something has changed.

It would seem sometimes there is a need to respectfully "agree to disagree".

If there is some logical explanation for changes made in the last decade then I am open minded to consider it ... but at this point it simply doesn't make sense.

To me ... IMHO :)

I KNEW somebody would bring up the difference in altitude thing LOL!!

I support Calz_Avaretard’s statement 100%. Ever since I was a little girl I’ve been watching the skies . . . . . I’ve run into things before because I’m always looking up. ((((well that may have not been a wise thing to admit)))) ;)

Something has changed . . . . .

Perhaps one thing that is maybe causing the reluctance to accept the actuality of chemtrails is that it is difficult to separate out all the hype, conspiracy, and threatening feel that something this “in your face” poses.

I’m very pragmatic. It was difficult for me to accept the truth of chemtrails until I broke it down into things I COULD PROVE for myself. My proof literally “fell” all around me many times and continues to fall from time to time. And so . . . . I’m completely sanguine in the fact that chemtrails exist.

What continues to elude me and I feel this is the rub for many is the WHY

I have a very strong gut or intuition on this elusive “why” but this is where I have no proof and it is purely supposition and therefore does not fall under Icecold’s thread topic of chemtrail “proof”.

[blufire]

Icecold, Fred259 and all other skeptics . . . Tell you what my PA friends. Even though I'm not a very good photographer and somebody will have to lead me through the process of loading the pictures or video on the forum I will do my best to show you exactly what was the final proof for me. . . .the next time the chemtrails are sprayed and I’m at my farm in Kansas

I will also “sweep up” some of the residue and mail it to who ever wants it.

OH side note: (geez can’t believe I forgot this) . . . . . I did send some of the residue to my county agent for an analysis a couple years ago and it “was lost”. I was going to send another sample when one of my more ***conspiratorial the government will come to get you*** friends strongly suggested I just lay low.

But somehow I have a feeling even this wouldn’t be enough . . . . . .

[Fred259]

I live less than 2 miles from a medium sized city airport. I have looked up at the skies each and every day for the last 5+ years.

If planes circling for landing was the cause I would *GUESS* it would be quite obvious in cities all over the world. Correct? I don't know how many countries experience what we do here in the usa. ***IF*** it were simply a natural phenonenon of ice crystals, humidity and contrails then every airport in the world (considering humidity) should have that very same effect you showed on a daily basis. Yes?

Yes, if the relative humidity is less than 100% contrails and clouds wont form

If the RH is 100% they will form.

The atmosphere is a “living nature” it’s changing all the time, pressure and temps are increasing weather fronts building or dissipating. Heating or convection from the ground causing warm air to rise cooling and then forming clouds, if the convection continues cumulonimbus clouds form ice is rising and cooling and increasing in size sometimes as large as tennis balls, the storm cloud the dissipates the whole lot comes crashing down warming and melting and falling as hail stones. It’s a complete living ecosystem you could say.



There is plenty of footage of the *trails shutting off and back on (missing the u shaped portion of the pattern).
yes... the trails are often blown in the winds...like the photograph above..


Perhaps different portions of the world are not effected at all???
No not really it happens world wide.



I can see on many many occasions chemtrails START when a plane comes above the city I reside then STOPS when it has passed. Very clearly and on a regular basis.


Yes that will happen, the atmosphere above the city is completely different than the atmosphere before and after the city. This is caused by changes in the temp of the city when compared with the surrounding farmland. I can’t remember the actual name for this but essentially it’s because concrete roads and surfaced areas retain inbound solar radiation or heating, and give off more heat to the atmosphere compared with a ploughed field for example. It depends on how big the city is.

Take LA for example the atmosphere at 5,000 over the ocean will be completely different compared with the city itself and the farmland towards the east.

I have a feeling you live in a hot part of the states perhaps?

[Calz]

I will also “sweep up” some of the residue and mail it to who ever wants it. :haha:



I admire your "spunk" on the matter ... but that would not be wise in "these times".

You could get taken down for mailing harmful substances.

I think folks get the idea from you posts. There is *plenty* of evidence out there already regarding what is falling from the skies (from *WHATEVER* method).

You have nothing to prove to anyone :)

Those who ignore the massive evidence already will continue to ignore any evidence you personally provide.

[Calz]

I live less than 2 miles from a medium sized city airport. I have looked up at the skies each and every day for the last 5+ years.

If planes circling for landing was the cause I would *GUESS* it would be quite obvious in cities all over the world. Correct? I don't know how many countries experience what we do here in the usa. ***IF*** it were simply a natural phenonenon of ice crystals, humidity and contrails then every airport in the world (considering humidity) should have that very same effect you showed on a daily basis. Yes?

Yes, if the relative humidity is less than 100% contrails and clouds wont form

If the RH is 100% they will form.

The atmosphere is a “living nature” it’s changing all the time, pressure and temps are increasing weather fronts building or dissipating. Heating or convection from the ground causing warm air to rise cooling and then forming clouds, if the convection continues cumulonimbus clouds form ice is rising and cooling and increasing in size sometimes as large as tennis balls, the storm cloud the dissipates the whole lot comes crashing down warming and melting and falling as hail stones. It’s a complete living ecosystem you could say.



There is plenty of footage of the *trails shutting off and back on (missing the u shaped portion of the pattern).
yes... the trails are often blown in the winds...like the photograph above..


Perhaps different portions of the world are not effected at all???
No not really it happens world wide.



I can see on many many occasions chemtrails START when a plane comes above the city I reside then STOPS when it has passed. Very clearly and on a regular basis.


Yes that will happen, the atmosphere above the city is completely different than the atmosphere before and after the city. This is caused by changes in the temp of the city when compared with the surrounding farmland. I can’t remember the actual name for this but essentially it’s because concrete roads and surfaced areas retain inbound solar radiation or heating, and give off more heat to the atmosphere compared with a ploughed field for example. It depends on how big the city is.

Take LA for example the atmosphere at 5,000 over the ocean will be completely different compared with the city itself and the farmland towards the east.

I have a feeling you live in a hot part of the states perhaps?

Okay ... we simply have to agree to disagree ... and I really do appreciate the tone you are making your views heard. That is what Avalon is about. :thumb:

I know what I have observed on a personal basis for many years.

Yes ... it is a holographic universerve and our level of consciousness can define what we "see" ... I understand this.

If I see a "Jesus" holograph in the skies with lotso ufos flying around I will laugh histerically ... crack open a beer ... pull out the lawnchair and enjoy the show.

:pop2:

I simply do not believe on a PERSONAL basis "chemtrails" can be so easily explained away.

You could be correct ... as always I am offering my own HUMBLE opinion :)

[Fred259]

There’s just one rather large flaw in the “cloud seeding” explanation Icecold

There has to be CLOUDS in the sky for them to SEED and the resulting conclusion of such seeding is RAIN.

MANY times when I have seen the “chemtrails” they start with a crystal clear blue sky with NO clouds to be seen.

AND after these “manufactured clouds” are formed I have never seen rain fall from them. Although, I have seen “vermiculite or sandy” like residue fall from the clouds, but never rain . . . in my experience. Let me clarify, I don’t actually see the stuff falling through the air, but several hours later the “residue” is all over my equipment, high tunnels, etc . . Not on all occasions, but I’d say around 40% of the time I find physical “evidence” of the “chemtrails”

I have watched this phenomenon closely for several years. Again I only have theories (just like others) on WHY “they” are spraying but I know proof positive that “something” is being sprayed and “they” started only a few years ago.

I am outside much more than I’m inside and year around and I watch closely the weather and nature around me.

These “clouds” or “trails” are NOT normal and only started . . . . maybe 5 or 6 years ago. Also, they have intensified in the last three or four years.

I think I should also clarify that I have NEVER experienced any ill effects from this residue. I have breathed it and cleaned it off my equipment. Also, I haven’t seen it have ill effects on my animals. I do however have on ongoing concern on what large quantities of the “elements” could have on my topsoil and organic nature of the produce we grow. For that reason I do regular testing and we are growing more and more in protected and controlled environments such as High Tunnels and I’m testing my pond water and developing a means of filtration when and if the time comes that it is needed.



Hi Blufire, I think if I recall you are in Kansas, so yes Mid West you are going to get a lot of this. What you are describing here is a high pressure weather system that can dominate the US both in winter and summer. You ask about dust and sand on your equipment.



7051

Winter HP over Siberia circulation example.

7052

Upper level convergence – Subsidence – Divergence – Ascent – Convergence.




The dust and sand comes from the deserts in the US Nevada, New Mexico etc.

This is an explanation of the circulation of air in a HP atmosphere or weather system. It involves the circulation of air clockwise over a vast area.

With high pressure at altitude the cool air subsides towards the low pressure at the surface. On reaching the surface this air diverges across the vast landmass.

The subsiding air has now created high pressure at the surface and low pressure at altitude.

The diverging surface air is now heated by the land and so rises and converges towards the new Low pressure at altitude.

High pressure again builds up at altitude and is cooled. Low pressure exists at the surface again. The air now subsides again towards the surface.

During this circular flow of air dust sand harvest chaff etc is caught up in this circulation of air. This is what is on the equipment.

We are in Scotland UK. With high pressure dominating over Spain in summer we occasionally get sands from the Sahara 2,500 miles away dumped here by this circulation of air.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-pressure_area


Post 30 explains why changes in the atmosphere at all levels is causing you unnecessary concern.

I agree I think you should sweep some up and send it to the lab, it’s a shame they lost the last lot. Its just sand, dust etc… like I say it happens here as well…

[blufire]

Okay ... we simply have to agree to disagree ... and I really do appreciate the tone you are making your views heard. That is what Avalon is about. :thumb:

I know what I have observed on a personal basis for many years.

Yes ... it is a holographic universerve and our level of consciousness can define what we "see" ... I understand this.

If I see a "Jesus" holograph in the skies with lotso ufos flying around I will laugh histerically ... crack open a beer ... pull out the lawnchair and enjoy the show.

:pop2:

I simply do not believe on a PERSONAL basis "chemtrails" can be so easily explained away.

You could be correct ... as always I am offering my own HUMBLE opinion :)


I sincerely and humbly agree Calz_Alvaretard with this post in response to Fred259

(((((blufire, although will whip up a blender of top shelf Margaritas, rocks . . . no salt))))

Over and out on this topic.

[blufire]

Hi Blufire, I think if I recall you are in Kansas, so yes Mid West you are going to get a lot of this. What you are describing here is a high pressure weather system that can dominate the US both in winter and summer. You ask about dust and sand on your equipment.



7051

Winter HP over Siberia circulation example.

7052

Upper level convergence – Subsidence – Divergence – Ascent – Convergence.




The dust and sand comes from the deserts in the US Nevada, New Mexico etc.

This is an explanation of the circulation of air in a HP atmosphere or weather system. It involves the circulation of air clockwise over a vast area.

With high pressure at altitude the cool air subsides towards the low pressure at the surface. On reaching the surface this air diverges across the vast landmass.

The subsiding air has now created high pressure at the surface and low pressure at altitude.

The diverging surface air is now heated by the land and so rises and converges towards the new Low pressure at altitude.

High pressure again builds up at altitude and is cooled. Low pressure exists at the surface again. The air now subsides again towards the surface.

During this circular flow of air dust sand harvest chaff etc is caught up in this circulation of air. This is what is on the equipment.

We are in Scotland UK. With high pressure dominating over Spain in summer we occasionally get sands from the Sahara 2,500 miles away dumped here by this circulation of air.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-pressure_area


Post 30 explains why changes in the atmosphere at all levels is causing you unnecessary concern.

I agree I think you should sweep some up and send it to the lab, it’s a shame they lost the last lot. Its just sand, dust etc… like I say it happens here as well…
_________________________________________________________________________________


Sorry I have to respond to this nonsense.

Fred259 . . . I’m sorry but this made my hackles go up a bit.

I have been a farmer ALL MY LIFE and an avid outdoors woman. . . . for you to suggest that I don’t know “DUST” from an completely out of the ordinary COATING of an unusual material that HAPPENS after a full covering of chemtrail clouds is quite frankly insulting.By your flag representation you live in Great Britain . . . .I can’t believe you would comment on weather patterns and where I live and what I experience on a daily basis from almost half a world away . . . . based on material you googled ????

You are reaching sir and you are grasping only thin air on this one . . . . .

[Fred259]

Okay ... we simply have to agree to disagree ... and I really do appreciate the tone you are making your views heard. That is what Avalon is about. :thumb:

I know what I have observed on a personal basis for many years.

Yes ... it is a holographic universerve and our level of consciousness can define what we "see" ... I understand this.

If I see a "Jesus" holograph in the skies with lotso ufos flying around I will laugh histerically ... crack open a beer ... pull out the lawnchair and enjoy the show.

:pop2:

I simply do not believe on a PERSONAL basis "chemtrails" can be so easily explained away.

You could be correct ... as always I am offering my own HUMBLE opinion :)

Carlz, this is really frightening I have been flying for 24 years as a co pilot and captain in Europe and Africa. These days I work for a leasing company selling hull leases doing delivery, testing etc and above all engine leases in EMEA and Russia.

Aircraft have no delivery or storage system for any of what is described here. Threads like switching on and off chemtrails, its laughable where is the switch, where is the circuit breaker, which pump, which electrical system…where are the manual diagrams its all 100% toffee…you have more chance of seeing the Loch Ness Monster, than a chemtrail over your city ! lol

[Hervé]

Here are two of the earliest videos on the subject addressing different sides of the coin.

Apparently, they are scheduled to be removed on April 29... at the end of this month.

Aerosols Crimes: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=441363407447522842#docid=-2815320198655156407
from Carnicom


Clouds of death: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=441363407447522842#docid=-3642079161958399142
from DB

441363407447522842#docid=-2815320198655156407

[Fred259]

Sorry I have to respond to this nonsense.

Fred259 . . . I’m sorry but this made my hackles go up a bit.

I have been a farmer ALL MY LIFE and an avid outdoors woman. . . . for you to suggest that I don’t know “DUST” from an completely out of the ordinary COATING of an unusual material that HAPPENS after a full covering of chemtrail clouds is quite frankly insulting.By your flag representation you live in Great Britain . . . .I can’t believe you would comment on weather patterns and where I live and what I experience on a daily basis from almost half a world away . . . . based on material you googled ????

You are reaching sir and you are grasping only thin air on this one . . . . .


Well Im trying to explain to how air circulates around a HP system and have used the resources available to me so yes these image were obtained from Google. I should say that I studied meteorology and climatology in the air force 30 years ago I don’t think its changed since then. If you study the link from Wicki they may give you a more scientific explanation or any reputable Met text book will cover this.

I think I said it was dust sand and harvest chaff is transported in the atmosphere on a regular basis under these metrological conditions, *especially during harvest time.

[blufire]

Fred259 . . .

There's a saying in Kansas . . . "If you don't like the weather wait an hour"

Our weather is highly unpredictable and can change within a couple hours. The weathermen can't come close most of the time. Maybe you could send them your information????

Have you ever been in Kansas or Midwest during harvest??? And how would you explain chemtrails that occur in the dead of winter in -20 degree weather . . . . .


done with this one

[Fred259]

Fred259 . . .

There's a saying in Kansas . . . "If you don't like the weather wait an hour"

Our weather is highly unpredictable and can change within a couple hours. The weathermen can't come close most of the time. Maybe you could send them your information????

Have you ever been in Kansas or Midwest during harvest??? And how would you explain chemtrails that occur in the dead of winter in -20 degree weather . . . . .


Hi bluefire,

Ive been thinking of perhaps another way of explain this.

If you drive in winter along the road in fog, and for half a mile it’s foggy, then clear for half a mile, then fog again, followed by more clear air then fog. So what I am describing is essentially fog banks.

When you are in the fog the dry bulb temp and the wet bulb temp are the same, and relative humidity is 100%. The air is supersaturated. Moisture can’t be held in a gaseous state, so it turns to fog.

When you are driving in the clear air and forward visibility is greatly improved the relative humidity in this clear air is less than 100% perhaps 80% and now moisture is held in the atmosphere in a gaseous state. (ie vapour) It’s because relative humidity is less than 100% that’s it clear.

Exactly the same is happening in the atmosphere right up to 80,000 feet where it gets very dry. However lower down if the relativity humidity in any part of the atmosphere is 100% a cloud or contrail will form - Always.

If the relative humidity is less than 100% no contrails will form- Ever.

I read your post very carefully; you were describing clear blue skies, nice stable weather, and ideal for working outside. This tells me that HP is evident. (The mid west is known for these conditions) You then say aircraft start flying over the Farm, they will Kansas and Missouri and the major states for traffic crossing coast to coast and from Texas and the southern states north and south. So in these conditions with the relative humidity in the upper atmosphere at 100% contrails will form and last all day. It’s nature.

In winter it’s the same if its -20C at ground level its -80C approx at altitude.

I was in Russia in early February. It was -41C one particular night. We decided to go outside and take some photographs just for the experience. The staff though we were insane. Appreciate we were properly dressed with boots and the gear. When we spoke to each other the breath from our mouths, or the moisture in our breath immediately froze a soon as it passed our lips. Its like twinkle stars. Im sure you know this. as well. We were blowing like you exhale a cigarette and it was just a mass of twinkle stars, frozen ice particles.... its exactly the same.

[Dennis Jonathan]

I respect your experience Fred, as well as your well explained approach.

Much like the UFO phenomena, I assume that a large portion of reported Chemtrails are most likely contrail or other easily explained occurrences.

I refuse to accept that ANYONE has the authority to say that this is 100% benign.

After watching the video on geoengineering and doing a little research, this just got a little more likely in my mind.

When have you known the government to make public that which has not already been tested privately for years?

Don't assume your experience with commercial jets denies this as a possibility.

How many people who lived outside of concentration camps had to be walked through the gas chambers before they believed that which they refused to accept?

Also:

The ice crystals alchemically transformed into aluminum and barium comment was priceless.

A valid point - and funny too :P

[Calz]

Okay ... we simply have to agree to disagree ... and I really do appreciate the tone you are making your views heard. That is what Avalon is about. :thumb:

I know what I have observed on a personal basis for many years.

Yes ... it is a holographic universerve and our level of consciousness can define what we "see" ... I understand this.

If I see a "Jesus" holograph in the skies with lotso ufos flying around I will laugh histerically ... crack open a beer ... pull out the lawnchair and enjoy the show.

:pop2:

I simply do not believe on a PERSONAL basis "chemtrails" can be so easily explained away.

You could be correct ... as always I am offering my own HUMBLE opinion :)

Carlz, this is really frightening I have been flying for 24 years as a co pilot and captain in Europe and Africa. These days I work for a leasing company selling hull leases doing delivery, testing etc and above all engine leases in EMEA and Russia.

Aircraft have no delivery or storage system for any of what is described here. Threads like switching on and off chemtrails, its laughable where is the switch, where is the circuit breaker, which pump, which electrical system…where are the manual diagrams its all 100% toffee…you have more chance of seeing the Loch Ness Monster, than a chemtrail over your city ! lol

Wow ... I didn't know such a humble opinion of my own personal experience could be so "frightening".

LAUGHABLE ... LOL ... You are implying what I have been PERSONALLY viewing for years is LAUGHABLE??? :haha:

Were did we get off the respectful difference of opinion???

Why is personal opinion based on years of personal observation such a threat to you???

It seems a troll is only polite as long as it can continue to intimidate others into it's own opinion.

I am happy to engage in a repectful discourse but you are jumping the track here.

Based on your previous posts I appreciated a respectful exchange of opinion.

Why are you resorting to "something else" which I will continue my humble polite attitude to question??????

Your aircraft have not overflown my country.

With due respect ... why in the world would you assume your own experience would be reflective of the whole reality. Perhaps chemtrail planes are remote controlled??? Do you think your own experience applies to all other craft all over the world???? With all the compartmentalization??? The lie being different at every level???

Regardless of your assessment of what you have done for the last 24 years ... why would you assume it has any bearing on my own personal assessment of what the PTB/W have done over the sky I have watched on a daily basis for many years???

No longer IMHO ... if you refuse to show respect for my own personal witnessing of an event ... then I will no longer waste energy on this.

[Calz]

Okay ... we simply have to agree to disagree ... and I really do appreciate the tone you are making your views heard. That is what Avalon is about. :thumb:

I know what I have observed on a personal basis for many years.

Yes ... it is a holographic universerve and our level of consciousness can define what we "see" ... I understand this.

If I see a "Jesus" holograph in the skies with lotso ufos flying around I will laugh histerically ... crack open a beer ... pull out the lawnchair and enjoy the show.

:pop2:

I simply do not believe on a PERSONAL basis "chemtrails" can be so easily explained away.

You could be correct ... as always I am offering my own HUMBLE opinion :)


I sincerely and humbly agree Calz_Alvaretard with this post in response to Fred259

(((((blufire, although will whip up a blender of top shelf Margaritas, rocks . . . no salt))))

Over and out on this topic.


gotta invite 9eagle9 when it comes to margaritas ... she is the best :washing:

[Franny]

Yes, a very controversial subject! Thatʻs ok.

I see them all the time as well and was very skeptical for a while. Why would politicians allow something that poisoned them too? i expect many of them either donʻt know or were told something that allays their concerns. The lie/truth/information is different at every level, yes?

Just a few days ago I was out by the lake with a friend watching a plane leaving fat trails, the kind that just hang there and do not dissipate. The bottom edge is jagged like a saw-blade for a time then they gradually thin and spread into a pale gray cloud cover.

Within a few seconds another plane flying at precisely the same altitude flew thru the trail. Because it was flying at the same altitude, it should have left a trail too, if it was indeed only water vapour. However, it left no trail.

I have also seen a plane leave a big trail that did not dissipate and another plane flying at the same altitude leaves the vapour trail that DOES dissipate after a few seconds.

Neither of these disparate events should occur if they are flying at the same altitude with the same temperature and same humidity.

Like Akhanaten I have seen the plane turn around and fly back over the mountain chain with the spray turned off as they make a U-turn turn and go back on as they approach the mountains. Off while turning, on while flying over the mountains. The humidity, temp and altitude donʻt change as they make that U-turn.

They also start and stop the spray while flying over the mountains.

Since the condensation trail is only seen when above a certain altitude, (I donʻt recall the numbers, sorry) and when temperature and humidity are within certain ranges, it should follow that condensation trails will always be seen when those conditions are met. So, I donʻt see how one plane will leave a con-trail and another wonʻt when at the same altitude/temp/humidity range. Maybe Iʻm over-simplifying it, but thatʻs what I observe.

Today the sky was full of those grids and Xs across the sky adn I was outside for hours. My throatʻs a little irritated tonight and Iʻve got that nasty post-nasel drip; maybe itʻs psychosomatic. :)

Read and copied a report from a Las Vegas TV station website a couple of years ago. They had many emails from watchers about chem/con-trails and decided to hire a pilot to collect air samples from the chem-trails. The air-sample collectors were sent to a lab and the results are interesting. Iʻve seem them here when a study was being done by Harvard in the late-90s; theyʻre like small baskets with a fiber batting inside.

The report was filled with a long list of unnecessary chemicals; mainly, aluminum, barium, strontium and much more. I have it on another computer and will dig it up if anyoneʻs interested. Let me know.

Interestingly, Monsanto has developed, so I read, strains of seeds that are resistant to aluminum.

Cheers everyone...

[Calz]

Interestingly, Monsanto has developed, so I read, strains of seeds that are resistant to aluminum.

Cheers everyone...

You have read correctly my friend.

[passiglight]

post deleted

[Ahkenaten]

And as some have observed here (as well as plenty of video evidence) why in the world would planes turn around to create checkerboard patterns over cities???

I would really LOVE to hear an logical explanation for that???



Do you mean this for example.?


7046

It's a holding stack, this one in Australia. If you look carefuly I think six perhaps seven have been holding here south of Brisbane. Something has gone wrong at Brisbane, perhaps the last one landing burst a tyre or something, meanwhile all inbounds from Sydney must hold while they clear up the mess.


Here is the holding chart for Toowoomba; the actual hold is 16.5nm west of Toowoomba airport or if you look in the circle and the 9 o’clock position you will see the hold. Notice that the shape of the hold is the same photographs.

http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/...WBGN02-125.pdf

I am not talking about the 'holding stack' - what I have seen is the planes turning the emissions OFF, scooting around to reposition the parallel grid lines, and then once in position, turning the sprayers back on. THAT is NOT 'holding pattern' but indicates deliberate operation of machinery, i.e. turning something off, and then turning it back on. If I only saw this once I would say - well, OK, maybe this is a coincidence - but I have seen this happening several times, and on one occasion saw the plane do this maneuver repeatedly to create a grid pattern over an area.

So while the holding pattern might account for some of what is seen, it does not account for all of it.

[Fred259]

And as some have observed here (as well as plenty of video evidence) why in the world would planes turn around to create checkerboard patterns over cities???

I would really LOVE to hear an logical explanation for that???



Do you mean this for example.?


7046

It's a holding stack, this one in Australia. If you look carefuly I think six perhaps seven have been holding here south of Brisbane. Something has gone wrong at Brisbane, perhaps the last one landing burst a tyre or something, meanwhile all inbounds from Sydney must hold while they clear up the mess.


Here is the holding chart for Toowoomba; the actual hold is 16.5nm west of Toowoomba airport or if you look in the circle and the 9 o’clock position you will see the hold. Notice that the shape of the hold is the same photographs.

http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/...WBGN02-125.pdf

I am not talking about the 'holding stack' - what I have seen is the planes turning the emissions OFF, scooting around to reposition the parallel grid lines, and then once in position, turning the sprayers back on. THAT is NOT 'holding pattern' but indicates deliberate operation of machinery, i.e. turning something off, and then turning it back on. If I only saw this once I would say - well, OK, maybe this is a coincidence - but I have seen this happening several times, and on one occasion saw the plane do this maneuver repeatedly to create a grid pattern over an area.

So while the holding pattern might account for some of what is seen, it does not account for all of it.

Ahkenaten, I’m struggling here a bit, I can only assume it’s a crop sprayer, or perhaps a military aircraft on display. If you are going to say it’s a Boeing 757, my view is that I don’t think it’s remotely possible. Language like turning emissions off “scooting around” sprayers back on is alien to me. I would love to know how this happens.

You say at first that’s it’s not a holding pattern, and later you say it might be a holding pattern. If you can let us know where this was we could dig out the chart and have a look, other than that I’m kind of stuck my friend… What sort of aircraft was it, did it have propellers? How high was it..

[T Smith]

To the "It's just the humidity in the air and how long it takes the ice crystals to dissapate" people


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kcTvqiMNl8

Indeed,yes. At the lower altitude relative humidity is 100% and the air is super saturated so the contrails form. At high altitude relative humidity is less so the trails don’t form.

It’s like being high on a mountain in clear sunshine while down in the valley its mist and fog. In the valley the RH is 100% supersaturated air, but not up the mountain.

It is true that humidity conditions may explain this observation. However, there is much more evidence. For example, aluminum and barium levels found in pristine snowfall on Mt. Shasta 60k times normal levels, among many, many, other pieces of supporting evidence to suggest chemtrails are not just benign contrails.

There will always be a plausible way to debunk any one piece of evidence. But after a while, if it looks like a duck, smells like a duck, and walks like a duck, it's probably a duck.

I've been looking at this issue for some time now. And while I'm still open to being "wrong" on the matter, so far I haven't seen anything terribly convincing to demonstrate that a chemtrail is really just a contrail, by some explanation not yet known or adequately considered.

[sunflower]

Icecold, you presented your case very well but sorry I don't agree with you whatsoever! I rely on memory only at the moment but have read enough to make me question the reason why we do have chemtrails.

I need to get organized. I should keep a notebook handy for references to back up my opinions.:p

[Ahkenaten]

Fred, re my comment below - and your query:


I am not talking about the 'holding stack' - what I have seen is the planes turning the emissions OFF, scooting around to reposition the parallel grid lines, and then once in position, turning the sprayers back on. THAT is NOT 'holding pattern' but indicates deliberate operation of machinery, i.e. turning something off, and then turning it back on. If I only saw this once I would say - well, OK, maybe this is a coincidence - but I have seen this happening several times, and on one occasion saw the plane do this maneuver repeatedly to create a grid pattern over an area.

So while the holding pattern might account for some of what is seen, it does not account for all of it.


Ahkenaten, I’m struggling here a bit, I can only assume it’s a crop sprayer, or perhaps a military aircraft on display. If you are going to say it’s a Boeing 757, my view is that I don’t think it’s remotely possible. Language like turning emissions off “scooting around” sprayers back on is alien to me. I would love to know how this happens.

You say at first that’s it’s not a holding pattern, and later you say it might be a holding pattern. If you can let us know where this was we could dig out the chart and have a look, other than that I’m kind of stuck my friend… What sort of aircraft was it, did it have propellers? How high was it..

Hi Fred I guess I am becoming totally inarticulate, my apologies. I did not mean to suggest on the one hand not holding patterns, on the other yes. I presumed by the photo of planes in 'holding patterns' you meant to illustrate the innocent effects of turning to comply with directions from air traffic control, thus there were no breaks in the emissions from the backs of the planes and one could easily see the curves where the planes turned. OK. My point is that what I observed was the planes turning OFF the emissions when they turned around 360 degrees, and THEN TURNED THE EMMISIONS BACK ON! Is that clearer? So, given that - I was trying to say what I saw was not, at least as I understood your description, the 'holding pattern' print.

What I saw was something different.

I am not a pilot, I am not a meteorologist. I am just a regular person making observations and withholding coming to conclusions until I get more information.

Also, these were jets I saw and I have no way of estimating the height they were flying at - it was daytime, as I recall early afternoon.

[Dennis Jonathan]

Well put T Smith.

Fred, what is your response to the trace chemicals found by credentialed researchers on this topic?

You seem to be focused on the science of atmospheric humidity and commercial jet design. What of the aluminum, barium, etc, and it's effects on ph levels of remote ecosystems?

Have you watched "what are they spraying?"

[Franny]

I am not talking about the 'holding stack' - what I have seen is the planes turning the emissions OFF, scooting around to reposition the parallel grid lines, and then once in position, turning the sprayers back on. THAT is NOT 'holding pattern' but indicates deliberate operation of machinery, i.e. turning something off, and then turning it back on. If I only saw this once I would say - well, OK, maybe this is a coincidence - but I have seen this happening several times, and on one occasion saw the plane do this maneuver repeatedly to create a grid pattern over an area.

So while the holding pattern might account for some of what is seen, it does not account for all of it.

As I mentioned above I too have seen this very thing a number of times.

What kind of plane, passenger or cargo, flies back and forth in a grid pattern anyway? As they fly in a straight line, there is spray. As they make the U-turn, most of the time, no spray. Whatʻs the point of regularly flying in a complete grid pattern while carrying passengers or cargo from point A to point B?

Saw a news report from the state of Idaho that said all the trails in the sky recently were a result of the local Air Force dropping "chaff" for some military exercises.

Cheers everyone...

[passiglight]

Taken from,,,,,,,, http://rabbithole2.com/news/top_news/why_do_chemtrails_contain_barium_barium_absorbs_radiation.php

Why Do Chemtrails Contain Barium? Barium Absorbs Radiation.
LUCUS 1/20/11 7:20PM CST

I want to start off this article by asking everyone to take a second to put your thinking caps on. Remember those from back in the day?

I'm sure I'm going to get some, if not a lot, of resistance from those who have a vested interest in promoting the idea that chemtrails are being sprayed in the air to either poison us, or to project holographic images in relation to project blue beam.

To sort out this mystery we must first understand what Barium is mainly used for.

Barium is known as a "getter" or an "absorber". It is used in various medical tests to image the digestive tract because the barium absorbs the X-Rays allowing the digestive system to be imaged.

Barium is also used to absorb trace elements in many various scientific experiments. It's basically a cleaner.

Barium is also used in the making of radiation shielding equipment.

The reason I am writing this article is in direct reply to a caller who called into the John Moore show today insisting, without any facts or proof, that I am wrong about chemtrails, and the use thereof.



JOIN THE DISCUSSION IN THE FORUM


The caller started out by saying that the Chemtrails are being used for Holographic images in relation to Project Bluebeam, a "DECLASSIFIED" document that basically alludes to a U.S. Government plan to use holograms to project images of religious messiahs in the sky to trick the world's population into submission.

Then the caller says that the Chemtrails are being used to poison us.

OK...which is it caller, Holograms or Poison? When you call into a show to confront a person about a theory, you might want to have your facts right before you dial that number. I can't even say "Nice Try", because it was not.

What the caller did end up doing is remind me that I needed to write an article about this subject.

Project Blue Beam Theory

Let me ask you a simple question, and I want you to logically think this to yourself. This is where those thinking caps come into play.

Why would the elites spend years of their lives, countless billions of dollars, and endless resources to devise a plan to "Trick" the entire population with holograms, and base every single thing they have worked on for generations to do so, only to put it down on paper "Operation Blue Beam"...

THEN...

Declassify the document and reveal the grand hoax to the whole world, thus defeating it's very own purpose?

Does that make any sense at all? Think about it.

That's all I have to say about that. It's pretty much common sense here.



The Chemtrail Poison Theory

Many people believe that the elites are using chemtrails to poison the public. Do you know, or have heard of anyone who has died from chemtrails?

Do you see the elites, or anyone else for that matter, walking around with gas masks on to protect themselves from this supposed poisoning?

The elites are humans, they have children, friends, and family. Do you honestly think that the elites are poisoning themselves, along with all their family and friends? Does that add up at all?

This "myth" that chemtrails are poison to kill us is being propagated by people who have a vested financial interest in selling you certain products. I'm not one to point fingers, so you figure it out.

I am in no way saying that Barium over the course of time will not have some adverse effects on the human body, everything does. If you drink too much water you can become over hydrated and die. Is water a poison? Any chemical or compound when taken in abundance can have adverse reactions to humans.

If barium is such a poison, why do they give you a large dose of it at the hospital to image your digestive tract? Why are people not dying from these high doses of barium?

Yes all barium compounds are poisonous, just not being used to poison us.



The Chemtrail Radiation Blocker Theory

As we know, barium absorbs radiation, that's what it does. Brown Dwarf Stars emit radiation, that's what they do.

Would it not be a logical conclusion that Barium Chemtrails absorb Brown Dwarf Radiation?

Our Sun produces most of it's energy in the form of light and heat. Much of the radiation is destroyed within the nuclear reaction of the Sun.

Brown dwarf stars don't have a nuclear reaction as our Sun does, as the mass is just not there. The energy being released by brown dwarfs is mainly radiation. Radiation from a brown dwarf is basically sub atomic particles thrown out by the cold star that reign down on Earth.



In Conclusion

Obviously, the elites are not going to base EVERYTHING on a plot to trick us with holograms, put it on paper, then declassify that document revealing their entire grand agenda. That makes about as much sense as "The Sun rose 2 days early in Greenland because the ice caps melted". Believe that one and I'll tell you another.

Obviously, the elites are not poisoning themselves, their children, their families, and friends. The elites love and care about their children just as much as most folks do, they are just humans too. They may have more money and power, but, they don't want to kill their own offspring.

It is completely ridiculous, and utterly without common sense, to think that they are.

I'm sure someone will come along with something like "The elites are not really human". Go ahead, run with that.

LEARN WHY OUR SUN IS MOST LIKELY IN ORBIT WITH A BROWN DWARF STAR IN A BINARY ORBIT





Below I have copied the uses of Barium for you to study.


The Element Barium

Ba
Barium
137.327
Atomic Number: 56
Atomic Weight: 137.327
Melting Point: 1000 K (727°C or 1341°F)
Boiling Point: 2170 K (1897°C or 3447°F)
Density: 3.62 grams per cubic centimeter
Phase at Room Temperature: Solid
Element Classification: Metal
Period Number: 6 Group Number: 2 Group Name: Alkaline Earth Metal



Barium–borate–flyash glasses: As radiation shielding materials

Sukhpal Singha, , , Ashok Kumarb, Devinder Singhc, Kulwant Singh Thindc and Gurmel S. Mudahara
aDepartment of Physics, Punjabi University, Patiala, 147002 India
bCollege of Engineering, Punjabi University Neighbourhood Campus, Rampura Phul, India
cDepartment of Physics, Guru Nanak Dev University, Amritsar, India

Received 22 September 2007; revised 23 October 2007. Available online 30 October 2007.

Abstract
The attenuation coefficients of barium–borate–flyash glasses have been measured for γ-ray photon energies of 356, 662, 1173 and 1332 keV using narrow beam transmission geometry. The photon beam was highly collimated and overall scatter acceptance angle was less than 3°. Our results have an uncertainty of less than 3%. These coefficients were then used to obtain the values of mean free path (mfp), effective atomic number and electron density. Good agreements have been observed between experimental and theoretical values of these parameters. From the studies of the obtained results it is reported here that from the shielding point of view the barium–borate–flyash glasses are better shields to γ-radiations in comparison to the standard radiation shielding concretes and also to the ordinary barium–borate glasses.

History and Uses:

Barium was first isolated by Sir Humphry Davy, an English chemist, in 1808 through the electrolysis of molten baryta (BaO). Barium is never found free in nature since it reacts with oxygen in the air, forming barium oxide (BaO), and with water, forming barium hydroxide (Ba(OH)2) and hydrogen gas (H2). Barium is most commonly found as the mineral barite (BaSO4) and witherite (BaCO3) and is primarily produced through the electrolysis of barium chloride (BaCl2).

Barium is a dry, chalky, metallic powder that is mixed with water to make a thick, milkshake-like drink. Barium absorbs x-rays and appears white on x-ray film. When swallowed, the barium coats the inside walls of the pharynx and esophagus so these organs and their movement are visible on x-ray.

Barium is used as a getter, a material that combines with and removes trace gases from vacuum tubes.

Barium sulfate (BaSO4), a common barium compound, is used as a filler for rubber, plastics and resins. It can be combined with zinc oxide (ZnO) to make a white pigment known as lithophone or with sodium sulfate (Na2SO4) to make another white pigment known as blanc fixe. Stones made from impure barium sulfate glow when exposed to light and will glow in the dark for up to six years if intensely heated in the presence of charcoal. These stones, known as Bologna stones, were discovered near Bologna, Italy in the early 1500s and were thought to possess magical properties by alchemists. Although all barium compounds are poisonous, barium sulfate can be safely ingested since it does not dissolve in water. It is also a good absorber of X-rays and, when swallowed, can be used to produce X-ray images of the intestinal tract.

Barium carbonate (BaCO3), another common barium compound, is used in the manufacture of ceramics and some types of glass. It is a component in clay slurries used in drilling oil wells. Barium carbonate is used to purify some chemical solutions and is the primary base material for the manufacture of other barium compounds.

Barium forms several other useful compounds. Barium nitrate (Ba(NO3)2) burns with a bright green color and is used in signal flares and fireworks. Barium chloride (BaCl) is used as a water softener. Barium oxide (BaO) easily absorbs moisture and is used as a desiccant. Barium peroxide (BaO2) forms hydrogen peroxide (H2O2) when it is mixed with water and is used as a bleaching agent that activates when wet. Barium titanate (BaTiO3) is used as a dielectric material in capacitors. Barium ferrite (BaO·6Fe2O3) is used to make magnets.


cosmic love

[passiglight]

QOUTE FROM FRED,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


"The thing that’s Im seriously worried about in the US and UK is this.

The US / UK governments are controlled by the New World Order

The US / UK Military are controlled by the New World Order.

The man squatting at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue needs to be removed and sent to jail.

Charles needs to be told in no uncertain terms that slaughtering 6 billion is insanity

That’s what we need to worry about… we can do something about this, what can you do to influence the earth’s magnetic flux? "

unquote,,,,,,,,,,

Well Fred and ice for that matter,,,,,,,, for it's rights and it's wrongs,,,,,,,,,,,to improve my chances of world domination i might try and chuck a load of aluminium chaff in the atmosphere

Or,,,,,,,,

if i felt chaff would boost my haarp sytems,,,,,,,

Or,,,,,,,,,

Excerpt from,,,,,,,by Dr. Ilya Sandra Perlingieri

January 22, was the first Chemtrails Awareness Day.(1)



"For those of us who, for years, have been researching these aerosol toxins that continue to be sprayed on us, it was a day to redouble our efforts once again to educate those who have not been paying attention to the momentous changes in our skies. Just look up!



We rarely have full days of real sunshine. Instead, now we have 20% less sun, and mostly a blanket of artificial “clouds” filled with toxins. This is due to illegal Weather Modification programs that have never had any official public discussion. Our air quality, over the past 12-15 years, has declined dramatically. Do we really think we are immune to these poisonous effects?



If one connects the dots as to how this has affected our well being, all we need do is see how illness has increased significantly in humans, animals, and plant life (in short, all living things). Millions of people are getting sicker, not better. What has happened is staggering in implications for all life on this planet.



Yet, despite two documentaries,(2) the important and vital research contributions of Clifford Carnicom, various Skywatch and other citizens groups’ concerns, Dr. R. Michael Castle’s 2007 Unified Atmospheric Preservation Act (stalled in Congress), and possibly thousands of calls and letters to those in charge, US public officials and agencies continue to either ignore our real concerns or dismiss them as unfounded.



There has been absolutely NO accountability and NO precaution. Instead, lies and deceit abound. This cannot continue. How many more days do we want to be poisoned?

A new preliminary draft report by Arizona Skywatch shows dramatic increases in heavy metals that simply do not belong in our air.



NOTE: The level of Manganese is so shockingly high that Arizona Skywatch also included additional information about it (see below).



This report will be posted online shortly.(3) Here are the pre-publication results. [NOTE: the Manganese and Copper ratio.]

This is only a preliminary overview of Arizona air particulates.






2010 Air Particulates


These figures indicate how many times they are over the “allowable” toxic limit:

Aluminum: 15.8

Antimony: 63.3 [This is not a typo]

Arsenic: 418 [This is not a typo]

Barium: 5.3

Cadmium: 6

Chromium: 6.4

Copper: 9

Iron: 43.5 [This is not a typo]

Lead: 15.7

Manganese: 513.8 [This is not a typo]

Nickel: 10.7

Zinc: 7.5

These figures show that there is no air “quality” [a word meaning: excellence or worth], but instead there is a combination of hazardous metals permeating the air.



These toxins do NOT belong in the air we are breathing. In fact, if precaution were accurately factored in, the “allowable” toxic limit should be ZERO.



Due to the extremely high level of Manganese, Arizona Skywatch also includes the following information on this metal:

We are looking at a few metals that are without question harmful to health and environment, such Al [Aluminum] and Ba [Barium].



The third year of air particulate collection and analysis shows lower Al and Ba but still much higher than rated as safe. Manganese [Mn] continues to be extremely high for 2010. The full report for 2010 is not complete, but do not be fooled by the idea that Iron or Mn are harmless - there are defined health impacts with high intake.



Not all the Manganese being ingested will be from food, fine particles of Manganese passes through blood-brain barrier and can be deposited. [For how this happens, see Mark Purdy’s research below.]



See 2008 and 2009 particulate report analysis - 2010 will be finished and posted in the coming weeks.



Manganese
Manganese is a pinkish-gray, chemically active element. It is a hard metal and is very brittle. It is easily oxidized. Manganese is reactive when pure; and as a powder it will burn in oxygen. It reacts with water (it rusts like iron) and dissolves in dilute acids.



Applications
Manganese is essential to iron and steel production. At present, steel making accounts for 85% to 90% of the total demand. Manganese is a key component of low-cost stainless steel formulations and certain widely used aluminum alloys. Manganese dioxide is also used as a catalyst.



Manganese is used to decolorize glass and make violet-colored glass.



Other compounds that find applications are: Manganese oxide (MnO) and Manganese carbonate (MnCO3): the first goes into fertilizers and ceramics and the second is the starting material for making other Manganese compounds.



Manganese in the environment
Manganese is one of the most abundant metals in soils, where it occurs as oxides and hydroxides, and it cycles through its various oxidation states.



Manganese occurs principally as pyrolusite (MnO2), and to a lesser extent as rhodochrosite (MnCO3).



More than 25-million tons are mined every year, representing 5-million tons of the metal, and reserves are estimated to exceed 3-billion tons of the metal.



The main mining areas for Manganese ores are South Africa, Russia, Ukraine, Georgia, Gabon, and Australia. Manganese is an essential element for all species. Some organisms, such as diatoms, mollusks and sponges, accumulate Manganese.



Fish can have up to 5 ppm and mammals up to 3 ppm in their tissue, although normally they have around 1 ppm.



Health effects of manganese
Manganese is a very common compound that can be found everywhere on earth.



Manganese is one out of three toxic essential trace elements, which means that it is not only necessary for humans to survive, but it is also toxic when too-high concentrations are present in a human body.



When people do not live up to the recommended daily allowances, their health will decrease. But when the uptake is too high, health problems will also occur. The uptake of Manganese by humans mainly takes place through food, such as spinach, tea, and herbs.



The foodstuffs that contain the highest concentrations are,

grains and rice

soybeans

eggs

nuts

olive oil

green beans

oysters

After absorption in the human body Manganese will be transported through the blood to the liver, the kidneys, the pancreas, and the endocrine glands. Manganese effects occur mainly in the respiratory tract and in the brain. Symptoms of Manganese poisoning are hallucinations, forgetfulness and nerve damage.



Manganese can also cause,

Parkinson’s

lung embolism

bronchitis

When men are exposed to Manganese for a long period of time, they may become impotent. A syndrome that is caused by Manganese has symptoms such as schizophrenia, dullness, weak muscles, headaches, and insomnia.



Because Manganese is an essential element for human health, shortages of Manganese can also cause health effects [and include]:

obesity

glucose intolerance

blood clotting

skin problems

lowered cholesterol levels

skeletal disorders

birth defects

changes of hair color

neurological symptoms

Chronic Manganese poisoning may result from prolonged inhalation of dust and fumes. The Central Nervous System [CNS] is the chief site of damage from the disease, which may result in permanent disability.



Symptoms include:

languor

sleepiness

weakness

emotional disturbances

spastic gait

recurring leg cramps

paralysis



[AUTHOR NOTE: How many people who have caused “public” disturbances and/or have “behavioral outbursts” are actually suffering from environmental chemical brain injury due to poisoning from heavy metals or other toxic chemicals, but are being treated like criminals? ISP]



A high incidence of pneumonia and other upper respiratory infections has been found in workers exposed to dust or fumes of Manganese compounds.



Manganese compounds are experimental equivocal tumorigenic agents.



Environmental effects of manganese
Manganese compounds exist naturally in the environment as solids in the soils and small particles in the water.



Manganese particles in air are present in dust particles. These usually settle to earth within a few days. Humans enhance Manganese concentrations in the air by industrial activities and through burning fossil fuels. Manganese that derives from human sources can also enter surface water, groundwater, and sewage water.



Through the application of Manganese pesticides, Manganese will enter soils. For animals, Manganese is an essential component of over 36 enzymes that are used for the carbohydrate, protein, and fat metabolism. With animals that eat too little Manganese, interference of normal growth, bone formation, and reproduction will occur.



For some animals, the lethal dose is quite low, which means they have little chance to survive even smaller doses of Manganese when these exceed the essential dose. Manganese substances can cause lung, liver and vascular disturbances, declines in blood pressure, failure in development of animal fetuses, and brain damage.



When Manganese uptake takes place through the skin, it can cause tremors and coordination failures.



Finally, laboratory tests with test animals have shown that severe Manganese poisoning should even be able to cause tumor development with animals. In plants, Manganese ions are transported to the leaves after uptake from soils. When too little Manganese can be absorbed from the soil this causes disturbances in plant mechanisms.



For instance disturbance of the division of water to hydrogen and oxygen, in which Manganese plays an important part.



Manganese can cause both toxicity and deficiency symptoms in plants. When the pH of the soil is low, Manganese deficiencies are more common. Highly toxic concentrations of Manganese in soils can cause swelling of cell walls, withering of leaves, and brown spots on leaves. Deficiencies can also cause these effects.



Between toxic concentrations and concentrations that cause deficiencies a small area of concentrations for optimal plant growth can be detected. [Please watch for this posting soon on Arizona Skywatch.]

In addition to this information by Arizona Skywatch, there is also the important, but little-known independent scientific research done by the late Mark Purdy.



He spent decades investigating, tracking, and testing soils around the world for heavy metals and what happens when human intervention changes the earth’s natural metals balance. Purdy, who was also a devoted organic farmer, showed that the toxicity of organophosphate compounds used in the UK as sheep-dip pesticides were linked to the BSE [Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy] epidemic.



He also documented that Manganese particles in the air come from both natural geological sources AND military munitions, sonic [jet planes] and/or electromagnetic stimuli, and,

“metallic nano-clusters” or nanoparticles [such as nano-particles of fiber coated Aluminum found in Chemtrails] “provide the driving force” that explain “the underlying mechanism which promotes the… pathology of TSEs.” (4)

Purdy documented that a high dose of Manganese and the resultant low dose of Copper [see ArizonaSkywatch figures above] may be the cause of BSE and other forms gathered under the nomenclature TSEs [Transmissible Spongiform Encephalopathy].



This also includes the human form of TSEs, variant Creuzfeldt-Jakob Disease [often knows as vCJD]. His independent research is persuasive.



Purdy notes:

Intensive exposures to natural and artificial sources of infrasonic acoustic shockwaves (tectonic disturbances, supersonic turbojets, etc.) have been observed in ecosystems supporting mammalian populations blighted by clusters of traditional and new variant strains of TSEs.



But TSEs will only emerge in those ‘infrasound-rich’ environments which are simultaneously predisposed to specific environmental factors that induce a high Manganese (Mn) low Copper (Cu)/low zinc (Zn) ration in brains of local mammalian populations.(5)

Purdy cites three issues that were responsible for the epidemic outbreak of BSE in the UK:

Copper chelating insecticides

Intense infrashock waves from turbojet aircraft (which metamorphoses the atomic structure of Manganese) and causes the third issue

Once Manganese changes, due to this shock, a “sleeping prion” comes into the scene to create havoc

He also writes:

“the so-called ‘infectivity’ of the prion is a misnomer and should be correctly defined as the magnetic/’reactive’ free-radical generating capacity of the Mn 3+ component of the prion.” (6)

TSE diseases are caused by prions - the body’s proteins that fold abnormally - and corrupt the surrounding molecules.

Purdy further notes that there are,

“numerous flaws in the conventional consensus on the origins of BSE…[and] environmental perspectives of TSEs [were] entirely excluded by research programs to date [2002] …An impartial study of the epidemiology of BSE/vCJD suggests that the conventional consensus on the origins of BSE/vCJD is severely flawed.” (7)

The erroneous news reported internationally was that these so-called BSE cows became infected from eating feed with parts of dead sheep who were infected with scrapie.



First reported in 1985, by 1993 35,533 were reported to have mad-cow disease, aka BSE.



NOTE: In the UK, about 6-million cows born before 1994 were slaughtered. BSE was not tracked in the US. This is yet another governmental failure: what isn’t tracked, then isn’t a problem.



How does the increasing use of the secret HAARP arrays around the world (not just in Alaska) link to the causes and increases in TSEs? HAARP can be included in what Purdy calls “tectonic disturbances.”



These have also been on a significant rise over the past decade.



Also, how do the Weather-Modified ELF artificial clouds link to these neurodegenerative diseases that also include ALS [Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis, also known as Lou Gherig’s Disease, and Parkinson’s Disease]?



Purdy also notes that TSEs:

can be linked to a solar charged battery on continuous charge; where the Mn [Manganese] contaminated/Cu [Copper] depleted circadian pathways absorb and pile up, rather than conducting the vital life force energies of incoming ultra-violet, acoustic and geomagnetic radiation.



Instead of harnessing these energies for the body’s own biorhythmic requirements, an infrasonic shock induced metamorphosis of the Mn atom intervenes; initiating an explosive free-radical mediated pathogenesis that perverts the healthy pathways of sound and light; Cu prions are replaced by ‘hyperpolarized’ Mn prions that seed self perpetuating ‘cluster bombs’ of radical mediated neurodegeneration. TSE ensues.(8)

Mark Purdy was awarded the 1997 Nobel Prize for his discoveries. His research has been confirmed by Auburn University (see reference 4).

How many more people in cities, towns, communities around the US, North and South America, Europe, and Australia are breathing air every day that is so hazardous to our very survival? Given our daily and deadly chemical, heavy metals, hormone disruption and ELF/plasma exposure, we must completely revise the so-called “official allowable toxic limit” for humans and other living things.



As mentioned above, these “limits” should be ZERO.

We must have accurate information. With our current exposure on complete overload, we simply cannot wait more months or years. In fact, what do we think we are waiting for?



In many parts of the US, the Chemtrails assault appears to have intensified over the past two months.



Just look at the artificially induced crazed weather around the US just during this past month: The temperature in Texas was 0-degrees yesterday; and whatever “white stuff” is falling from the skies throughout New England is not snow that looks anything like what used to fall 15 years ago.



This white material smells full of chemicals.



The Chemtrails-Weather Modification [read: destruction] situation is now far past critical.

How many people have had their air tested for these metals by a reputable independent lab [with no government ties]?

How many of the millions of people who love to garden have tested their soils?

When the robins return in the Spring, will they be pulling heavily-pesticided and Manganese-infested worms (part of the web of life and our food chain) out of the ground to eat?

What other mass bird-deaths might follow?

[Note: a well-known scientist told me that the recent mass bird and fish deaths were caused by man-made scalar activity. Their deaths were not natural.]





It is now essential that, over a short period of time, we make a collective effort to get samples tested around the country. Resources can be pooled.



Other things that could also be included for analysis are,

biological materials (molds, fungi, viruses)

Phosgene

EDB [Ethylene dibromide]

polymers

possibly radioactive uranium, thorium, and strontium

We can then have a clear picture of the extent of the damage to which we are subjected. For our SAFETY, this is now of the utmost urgency.

Standard blood tests do not show up heavy metals poisoning. However, a simple hair analysis can detect heavy metals, so people have a base from which to determine their own risks. This hair analysis can even be done for your pets. Many toxic chemicals and heavy metals have overlapping and similar poisoning symptoms. So, it is always important to consult your primary health care provider.



The only problem there is that most physicians have little-to-no-training in environmental medicine, or the effects of these omnipresent poisons, or how to treat them. This is now in abundant evidence with the nine-and-and-a-half-month mega-crisis situation in the Gulf of Mexico.



There are not enough doctors who really know how to deal with this epic catastrophe caused by the mixture of lethal Corexit dispersants, crude oil, and Chemtrails.



Doctors Without Borders and the American Academy of Environmental Medicine both have been silent. This is reprehensible. Around the Gulf, hospitals are overwhelmed. This is an unprecedented brew of poisons.



However, depending upon the extent of medical issues, it is possible to detox from heavy metal poisoning - provided this toxic aerosol assault stops. Since the new millennium began, there has been a concerted and sped-up effort to destroy decades of environmental laws that had been enacted to protect us.



We now have corporations running our country into the ground with the help of “public” officials whose salaries come from our taxes. This is done with the cooperation of news media that hardly do either any investigative journalism or truthful reporting. We now need this so urgently; and it is essential to our very continued existence.



Mainstream news is distracting “spin” but certainly not real news. This is especially relevant, as it concerns our less well-educated younger generations who do not have accurate news input, or often the ability to analyze issues, and/or think critically. They are constantly on their cell phones and oblivious to much else.



Here, too, there is abundant documentation and scientific reports of the brain damage done by daily cell phone use.



Brain cancer, once rare, is now on a steep rise."


ETC ETC,,,,,,,,,

Or then again i might,,,,,,,,,,,introduce some spider stuff,,,,,,,,,,,,


"The National Institutes of Health (NIH) and the United States Air Force (USAF) are listed as the agencies that gave the grant monies for the invention of atmospheric, radar chaff created from silk fibroin proteins derived from the milk of transgenic goats.



The United States Army funded the development of the transgenic goats, who were given a gene from a web-spinning spider. This silk fibroin material is harvested from the milk of these transgenic goats. This must be a new kind of radar chaff, instead of the old, aluminum strips chaff. Over many years, the Air Force has dumped radar chaff in the skies of the United States.

The below information was hacked off of the front page of the site. Nothing was hacked off of the front page but this information. We can only assume that it is important for certain parties that this information is not known by the public.

Hacked section:

"The Air Force & National Institutes of Health Funded Self-Replicating, Organic/Inorganic, Nanoscale - Macro-scale, Silica/Spider Silk/Polymer Advanced Materials That Can Be Used for Anything from Radar Chaff to Nano Fibers to Biosensors. Used to make fibers, foams, gels, films, or crystals.

They can put almost any biological thing - drug, germ, antibody, hormone, gene, etc. into these advanced, nano-materials. These advanced, nano-materials can be used for microelectronic devices. The patents also talk about a crystallization process that can happen in vivo - after implantation.



Let's call these... Radar Chaff #1 and Radar Chaff #2.

"It was demonstrated that the functional recombinant silks exhibit an ability to promote the nucleation of hydroxyapatite. The functional recombinant silks (silk fusion proteins) of the present invention have potential application in biomaterials, tissue engineering, advanced material composites and biosensors."

(quoted from the patent, Radar Chaff #1)

The Above Radar Chaff Patents use Silk Fibroin farmed from the Milk from the Army's Transgenic, Spider Goats.

Who is investigating Morgellons? The National Institutes of Health and the Army Institute of Pathology are investigating; they own nanotechnology patents, and they can't seem to recognize nanotechnology when they see it?

Are we paranoid to be worried about Frankenstein Science? Scientists farm the silk fibroin from the milk of the transgenic, spider goats. What if the spider or the goats have a parasite or weird germ? Could the parasite or germ replicate due to being further incorporated into an organic/inorganic, self-replicating advanced material?

Hey, this Frankensilk can promote a mineral to grow - what else? Time will tell."

For about 14 years, the public has been reporting that planes are spraying some kind of substance that comes down from the skies and looks a lot like spider webs.

Let's find out if these spider silks have ever been used as chaff over your town!

It is advised that all interested persons send FOIA requests to the agencies and educational institutions listed in the patents regarding "fibrous protein fusions," "silk fibroins," or "organic/inorganic composite materials made from spider silks" that might have been used as chaff by the Air Force or any federal contractors using federal monies over any part of the United States during the past 14 years.



Federal monies were used to develop this chaff, so even the universities would probably be required to honor an FOIA. The General Accounting Office might also have information in regards to any such expenditures.

This link will help you do a FOIA request. It has sample forms that you can use. Usually, the processing fee for a search for government documents is free if you are not using those documents to make a profit. Let ExoticWarfare know if you get something of interest.

Chemtrail activists who study the webs that fall from the sky have noticed that these fibers will fluoresce different bright colors when a UV light is shone on them. As an example, spider silks have been developed in China at Tongji and Shanghai Jiaotong Universities that strongly fluoresce in the near-infrared band when the fibers are coated with certain types of nano-crystals and macromolecules.

When you read this material, realize that ExoticWarfare is not implying that the named inventors have anything to do with what the Air Force or any other branch of our military is spraying in our skies. They just developed these spider silks. The military has its own laboratories.



There is an amazing range of inventions that can be made from spider silks,

Goats are prone to nematodes. Wolbachia, a bacteria, is prevalent in spiders used for laboratory purposes. Wolbachia causes sterility in the males of the spider species.



They took a silk protein gene from a laboratory spider that could have been contaminated (we hope not) and put it into some milk goats that could have been contaminated (we hope not). Then, they harvest the silk proteins from the goat's milk and turn it into lots of things. Air Force chaff is just one product.



Along with farming those silk fibroins, could they be accidentally harvesting genetic materials from nematodes, Wolbachia, germs, or other parasites?

"Wolbachia is a genus of bacteria which infects arthropod species, including a high proportion of insects (~60% of species). It is one of the world's most common parasitic microbes and is possibly the most common reproductive parasite in the biosphere. One study concludes that more than 16% of neotropical insect species carry this bacterium and as many as 25-70% of all insect species are estimated to be potential hosts.

Here is more from the same Wikipedia article about how Wolbachia effects human health:

"Applications to human health
Outside of insects, Wolbachia infects a variety of isopod species, spiders, mites, and many species of filarial nematodes (a type of parasitic worm), including those causing onchocerciasis ("River Blindness") and elephantiasis in humans as well as heartworms in dogs. Not only are these disease-causing filarial worms infected with Wolbachia, but Wolbachia seem to play an inordinate role in these diseases.



A large part of the pathogenicity of filarial nematodes is due to host immune response toward their Wolbachia. Elimination of Wolbachia from filarial nematodes generally results in either death or sterility.



Consequently, current strategies for control of filarial nematode diseases include elimination of Wolbachia via the simple doxycycline antibiotic rather than far more toxic anti-nematode medications."

One might infer from the paragraph above that Doxycline is the treatment of choice by medical professionals for nematode parasites in humans. Spiders, goats, and people can all get nematodes.

There are many patents that are associated or related to the four patents below. Below is the main patent for spider silks that can be used as chaff harvested from goats, another patent for recombinant (cloned) spider silks, a patent for a coating for that chaff, and the patent for the transgenic goats that produce silk proteins in their milk.

Silk proteins that can be used for radar chaff can come from,

naturally derived spider silk

recombinant silk

transgenic goats developed by Kaplan and Lombardi for the Army

In the first patent below, they discuss using these silks for radar chaff in this paragraph:

"[0045] In another embodiment, the underlying template (e.g., fusion polypeptide formed into a film etc.) can be removed or etched away to generate porous networks, tubes, or lamellar sheets of inorganic material.



These materials are useful directly as biomaterial scaffolds, for control of cell and tissue growth (e.g., as nerve conduits, bone conduits) and for nonbiological applications (e.g., filtration and separation media, catalysis, decontamination (directly or if filled with appropriate chemical or enzymes), radar chaff, coatings in general, and many related needs, for example, inorganic fillers to toughen materials that can also be filled with a second component."

Excerpts from the patents in question:


Patent #1 for the Air Force Chaff

"FIBROUS PROTEIN FUSIONS AND USE THEREOF IN THE FORMATION OF ADVANCED ORGANIC/INORGANIC COMPOSITE MATERIALS

WIPO Patent Application WO/2006/076711

Inventors:
KAPLAN, David, L. (46 Poond Street, Concord, MA, 01742, US)
HUANG, Jia (63 Edward Street, Apt. 2# Medford, MA, 02155, US)
WONG PO FOO, Cheryl (88 B Alder Street, Waltham, MA, 02453, US)
NAIK, Rajesh (1241 Beech Trail, Dayton, OH, 45458, US)
GEORGE, Anne (614 Laflin Street, Chicago, IL, 60607, US)

Assignee:
TRUSTEES OF TUFTS COLLEGE (Ballou Hall, Medford, MA, 02155, US)
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AS REPRESENTED BY THE SECRETARY OF THE AIR FORCE (AFMCLO/JAZ, 2240 B Street Room 10, Wright Patterson AFB OH, 45433-7109, US)
THE BOARD OF TRUSTEES OF THE UNIVERSITY OF ILLINOIS (University of Illinois at Chicago, 1737 West Polk Street Chicago, IL, 60612, US)
KAPLAN, David, L. (46 Poond Street, Concord, MA, 01742, US)
HUANG, Jia (63 Edward Street, Apt. 2# Medford, MA, 02155, US)
WONG PO FOO, Cheryl (88 B Alder Street, Waltham, MA, 02453, US)
NAIK, Rajesh (1241 Beech Trail, Dayton, OH, 45458, US)
GEORGE, Anne (614 Laflin Street, Chicago, IL, 60607, US)

GOVERNMENT SUPPORT
[002] This invention was supported by FA9550041 -0363 awarded by the U.S. Air Force and EB003210-01 awarded by the National Institutes of Health. The government has certain rights in the invention."





Patent #2 for Recombinant/Cloned Spider Silks

"RECOMBINANT SPIDER SILK PROTEINS THROUGH GENETIC ENGINEERING

WIPO Patent Application WO/1991/016351

Inventors:
Lombardi, Stephen J.
Kaplan, David L.

Assignee:
THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
Secretary, The Army OF.
The, Pentagon"





Patent #3 for the Coating for the Air Force Chaff

"METHOD FOR FORMING INORGANIC COATINGS
WIPO Patent Application WO/2005/000483

Inventors:
Kaplan, David L. (46 Pond Street, Concord, MA, 01742, US)
Chunmei LI. (11 Burditt Terrace, Malden, MA, 02148, US)

Assignee:
TUFTS UNIVERSITY (Ballou Hall, Medford, MA, 02155, US)
Kaplan, David L. (46 Pond Street, Concord, MA, 01742, US)
Chunmei LI. (11 Burditt Terrace, Malden, MA, 02148, US)

GOVERNMENT SUPPORT

[002] This invention was supported by National Institutes of Health grant R01 DE1 3405-OlAl and the government of the United States has certain rights thereto."





Patent #4 for the Army's Transgenic Goats

"RECOMBINANT SPIDER SILK PROTEINS THROUGH GENETIC ENGINEERING
WIPO Patent Application WO/1991/016351

Inventors:
Lombardi, Stephen J.
Kaplan, David L.

Applicant:
THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
Secretary, The Army OF.
The, Pentagon"

If you do a search on world and U.S. patents for a "Kaplan, David L." - you will find 118 patents on 3 pages where he is either one of the inventors or mentioned in other inventors' patents as a reference.



Probably not all of these patents are the exact same David L. Kaplan, but many of them are the co-inventor of Army goats who works at Tufts University. Right here is that search.

All of these patents are fascinating:

tissue engineered silk organs, tendons, ligaments, and skin

edible holographic silk products

slow-release, chitin-coated, silk-based, drug delivery systems

In these pages, there are substances that can be used in,

artificial corneas

barnacle protein

adhesion substances used in bone and muscle connections or for coatings for artificial hip joints and other implants

living tissue constructs

There is the use of chitin derived from the shells of insects, shrimp, lobsters, and crabs and chitin-like exopolymers produced from utilizing the bacteria of,

Acetobacter xylinum

Agrobacter tumefaciens

Sarcina ventriculi

Rhizobium leguminosarum

Mucor rouxii

Acinetobacter calcoaceticus

Some of the former bacteria have been implicated as being factors in Morgellons syndrome. "

OR MAYBE STILL,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


"Clifford E. Carnicom, an acknowledged expert since 1999 on the global covert spraying of aerosols into the atmosphere operation (also known as “Chemtrails”), stated in an exclusive ExopoliticsTV interview with Alfred Lambremont Webre released March 1, 2011 that the covert aerosol-spraying operation had transformed the Earth’s atmosphere into a plasma for carrying out weaponized applications such as,

bio-warfare (including Morgellons disease)

electromagnetic operations such as HAARP

weather warfare

tectonic (earthquake) warfare

mind control

advanced surveillance technology, and detection of advanced propulsion technology including UFOs

The over-all purpose of this covert operation of spraying aerosols into the atmosphere and converting it into plasma was to achieve “absolute control” over the global human population.



This total control is accomplished using the combined effects of seven weapons-like applications that use the plasma-like atmosphere with weaponized effects on the environment, the biosphere and the human population.

Although Mr. Carnicom prefers to use the term “aerosols”, the global covert operation spraying of aerosols into the atmosphere is also known as the “chemtrails program”.

In a Jan. 10, 2011 assessment of the current impact of the global aerosol-spraying program, Mr. Carnicom stated,

“The vitality and viability of human existence and life on this planet, as it has been known to exist, is under threat.”

A private citizen who has pursued research of the covert aerosol spraying program since 1999, Mr. Carnicom was the Defense Mapping Agency Aerospace Center Employee of the Year, Supervisor of the Year, and he received the Geodetic Sciences Departmental Award for outstanding technical, managerial, and cost effective performance.



His Bachelor of Science Cum Laude degree was attained in the field of Surveying and Photogrammetry from the Civil Engineering Department at California State University at Fresno, California. His post-graduate studies were conducted at The Ohio State University and Washington University.



He also possesses an Associate of Sciences degree and a Forest Engineering vocational degree from College of the Redwoods in Eureka, California. His education encompasses a wide variety of disciplines, including geodetic science, advanced mathematics, engineering, statistics, physical sciences, computer science and the life sciences."


Of course,,there is lots more info available if you would like bit more background here,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Cosmic love to all my poisened brothers and sisters :-))))

[passiglight]

By the way, i think you'll find they've been using chaff, quite a long time ,,,,,,,,,

Chaff (countermeasure)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Modern US Navy RR-124 (top) and RR-129 (bottom) chaff countermeasures and containers. Note how the strips of the RR-129 chaff, bottom, are of different lengths, while those of the RR-124, top, are all the same length. The RR-124 is designed to prevent interference with civil ATC radar systems.

Chaff, originally called Window[1] by the British, and Düppel by the Second World War era German Luftwaffe (from the Berlin suburb it was first found near), is a radar countermeasure in which aircraft or other targets spread a cloud of small, thin pieces of aluminium, metallised glass fibre or plastic, which either appears as a cluster of secondary targets on radar screens or swamps the screen with multiple returns.

Modern armed forces use chaff (in naval applications, for instance, using short-range SRBOC rockets) to distract radar-guided missiles from their targets. Most military aircraft and warships have chaff dispensing systems for self-defense. An intercontinental ballistic missile may release in its midcourse phase several independent warheads, a large number of decoys, and chaff.

Chaff can also be used to signal distress by an aircraft when communications are not functional. This has the same effect as an SOS, and can be picked up on radar. It is done by dropping chaff every 2 minutes.
Contents
[hide]

1 Second World War
2 Falklands War
3 See also
4 Notes
5 References
6 External links

[edit] Second World War

The idea of using chaff developed independently in the UK and in Germany.

As far back as 1937, R. V. Jones had suggested that a piece of metal foil falling through the air might create radar echoes.[2] In early 1942, a Telecommunications Research Establishment (TRE) researcher named Joan Curran investigated the idea and came up with a scheme for dumping packets of aluminium strips from aircraft to generate a cloud of false echoes.[3] From a practical point of view it was found the most effective version were strips of black paper backed with aluminium foil cut to strips exactly 27 centimetres by 2 centimetres and packed into bundles weighing one pound apiece.

The Head of the TRE, A. P. Rowe, code-named the device as "Window".

Meanwhile in Germany, similar research had led to the development of Düppel.[4] Once the idea had been passed to the US, Fred Whipple developed a system (according to Harvard Gazette Archives) for dispensing strips for the USAAF, but it is not known if this was ever used.
A Lancaster dropping chaff (the crescent-shaped white cloud on the left of the picture)

The systems were all essentially identical in concept: small aluminium strips (or wires) cut to one-half of the target radar's wavelength. When hit by the radar, such lengths of metal resonate and re-radiate the signal.[5] Opposing defenses would find it almost impossible to pick out the "real" aircraft from the echoes from the chaff. Other radar-confusing techniques included Mandrel,[6] Piperack, and Jostle.

However, unaware of the opposing air force's knowledge of the chaff concept, planners felt that using it was even more dangerous than not, since, as soon as it was used, the enemy could easily duplicate it and use it against them. In particular, the British government's leading scientific adviser, Professor Lindemann, balefully pointed out that if the RAF used it against the Germans, the Luftwaffe would quickly copy it and could launch a new Blitz. This caused concern in RAF Fighter Command and Anti-Aircraft Command, who managed to suppress the use of Window until July 1943.[7] At this time, it was felt the new generation of centimetric radars available to Fighter Command would deal with any Luftwaffe response to RAF Bomber Command use.

Examination of the Würzburg radar equipment brought back to the UK during Operation Biting and subsequent reconnaissance revealed to the British that all German radars were operating in no more than three major frequency ranges, and thus were prone to jamming. "Bomber" Harris, Commander-in-Chief (C-in-C) of RAF Bomber Command, finally got approval to use Window as part of Operation Gomorrah, the fire raids against Hamburg.

The first aircrew trained to use Window were 76 squadron. Twenty-four crews were briefed on how to drop the bundles of aluminised-paper strips (treated-paper was used to minimise the weight and maximise the time that the strips would remain in the air, prolonging the effect), one every minute through the flare chute, using a stopwatch to time them. The results were spectacular. The radar guided master searchlights wandered aimlessly across the sky. The AA guns fired randomly or not at all and the night fighters, their radar displays swamped with false echoes, utterly failed to find the bomber stream. A vast area of Hamburg was devastated with the loss of only 12 bombers. Squadrons quickly had special chutes fitted to their bombers to make the deployment even easier. Seeing this as a development that made it safer to go on ops, many crews got in as many trips as they could before the Germans found a countermeasure.
The effect of chaff on the display of a Giant Würzburg radar. The effect of jamming appears in the left "jagged" half of the circular ring, contrasting with the normal "smooth" (unjammed) display on the right half of the circle, with a real target at the 3 o'clock position - on the jammed left side the real target "blip" would have been indistinguishable from the jamming.

Although the metal strips puzzled the German civilians at first, the German scientists knew exactly what they were because they had developed Düppel themselves and refrained from using it for exactly the same reasons as Lindemann had pointed out to the British. Thus for over a year the curious situation arose where both sides of the conflict knew how to use chaff to jam the other sides radar, but refrained from doing so fearing that if they did so the other side would 'learn the trick' and use it against themselves.

The use of Window rendered the ground-controlled 'Himmelbett' (German for "canopy bed") fighters of the Kammhuber Line unable to track their targets in the night sky and left radar-guided guns and spotlights useless. In response to this, a new tactic, called Wilde Sau, or 'Wild Sow', was developed by Oberst Hajo Herrmann to cope with the lack of accurate ground guidance, and led to the creation of three new fighter wings dedicated to these tactics, numbered JG 300, JG 301 and JG 302. Ground operators would radio-direct single seat fighters and night fighters to areas where the concentrations of chaff were greatest (which would indicate the source of the chaff), and allow the fighters to visually acquire their targets, often against the fires and searchlights below. A few of the single seat fighters used by these new wings had special installations of the FuG 350 Naxos radar detection gear to spot British bombers at night.

A lesser known fact is that the Luftwaffe used this technology just six weeks after the above-mentioned Hamburg raid. The German strips were cut into 80 centimetre by 1.9 centimetre lengths and first dropped during a raid on 7-8 October 1943.[8] In a series of raids in 1943, and the 'mini-blitz' of Operation Steinbock between February and May 1944, Düppel allowed German bombers to once again attempt to operate over London. Although theoretically effective, the small number of bombers, notably in relation to the RAF's now-large night fighter force, doomed the effort from the start. The British fighters were able to go aloft in large numbers and often found the German bombers in spite of their Düppel.
[edit] Falklands War

Chaff was heavily used by British warships in the Falklands War. The absence of chaff launchers on the Atlantic Conveyor, while used by all other Royal Navy ships in the group, may have led to the ship's sinking by an Exocet missile—although given the vessel's large radar cross section, it is unlikely that chaff would have been effective.[citation needed]

During the war, British Sea Harrier aircraft lacked their conventional chaff dispensing mechanism.[9] Therefore Royal Navy engineers designed an impromptu delivery system of welding rods, split pins and string which allowed six packets of chaff to be stored in the airbrake well and be deployed in flight. It was often referred to as the "Heath Robinson chaff modification", due to its complexity.[10]



cosmic love

[Fred259]

Well put T Smith.

You seem to be focused on the science of atmospheric humidity and commercial jet design.

Hi Dennis,

Umm, it might seem like that but really it’s a bit like seafarers and farmers it’s kind of second nature having a very good idea of what is happening with the weather and climatology.


Fred, what is your response to the trace chemicals found by credentialed researchers on this topic?
What of the aluminum, barium, etc, and it's effects on ph levels of remote ecosystems?
Have you watched "what are they spraying?"


I have watched the “What are they spraying” I thought it was an excellent presentation. The two best bits for me was when he went to Hawaii and the end bit when he marched into the corridors of power, to discus the matter with congressman! I seriously thought, well this guy might make some progress.

When I watch a video this is the problem I have. First I am watching the screen with my eyes and secondly I am listening to the voiceover with my ears. I know it’s obvious but I’m trying to explain what’s going on in my brain! Everything featured on the screen, parts of aircraft, trails, drums contained within the cabin and much more, is all quite normal and evidence can be provided in writing supporting what its used for.
So I look at this screen thinking why are they showing these images, and it annoys me.

At the same time the voiceover is talking about chemical compounds found on a farm in Idaho, barium and aluminum chaffs, the farmer is sick so is the dog, and honestly I know zero about biology, chemical compounds, or “that’s side of science”

My eyes tell me this is all BS on the screen, my ears say well maybe, I don’t know, I dont understand biology. So we are lets say 50/50 undecided.

Then over the voiceover they start using “interesting words” like valves, pumps and tanks and I think ahhh now we are getting somewhere but I know honestly in all sincerity that none of these components exist. A pump for example must be driven electrically either by AC or DC power, (it will be AC), so what bus bar does it sit on? Where is the switch? Which panel? Circuit breaker? Wiring diagrams on and on.

However.

In real life no one bothers about these contrails in the industry, its all normal and these ideas and concepts only exist on internet forums. But, “Integrity” is the thread of the week and so I need to say that I with quite a few others for around seven years have been looking at 9/11 and what happened is not what we are supposed to think. We do know for example that some very serious illegal modifications have been carried out on aircraft and are being carried out to an undetermined number of aircraft some of which have been involved in accidents with the loss of all soles, post 9/11. ALPA the FAA and numerous other organisation responsible employ “non barking dogs”. These dogs have been put in place and are sleeping because the head does not control the tail. Therefore we are acutely aware of what they are capable of. Mechanic dogs are barking, and we understand the particular systems involved. However no barks can be heard or have ever been heard on chemtrails.

Never mind, its not all bad news. We now know that at least one of the pilots on 9/11 is behind bars which is to be expected given they have no further use for his services. For the avoidance of any doubt this man below was born in Britain and is not a Muslim. Another non barking dog you could say.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzh3adTWZOg

[Dennis Leahy]

numerous patents on geoengineering technologies + outrageously elevated levels of aluminum and barium particulates + multitudes of persistent trails in skies + Monsanto developing aluminum-resistant genetically modified seeds = "nothing to see here... move along, move along..."

I don't think it is to poison us (point already made about the impossibility to differentiate one human from another, using high altitude aerosols), but there is some ulterior motive/hidden agenda which either has a plausible enough 'backstory' to keep pilots from feeling the need to whistleblow, or else the pilots are all committed black-ops types that just don't talk.

A plausible backstory is that it is geoengineering to shield against some solar radiation (global warming) and that is is being done secretly because the Earth and/or climate cannot afford for the public to say "no." That would probably be enough to keep the pilots quiet, because they would believe it. As for why it is really being done... well, we'll keep speculating until we know.

I think it is good that Icecold and Fred are offering a logical, non-hysterical approach - but they have not convinced me! :~)

The US black-ops budget is reportedly in the range of 1.2 to 1.5 trillion dollars, and we have virtually no idea what they do with the money - so we will not stop speculating.

I personally still don't believe in a brown dwarf star or Nibiru - I haven't seen any evidence that I believe - but I do "believe" in intense solar activity and coronal mass ejections, and can easily believe that this is someone's quasi-scientific attempt to protect against them (and Monsanto, being an opportunistic parasitic vampire, simply decided to expand their nefarious plan of a stranglehold on all major food crops worldwide, by genetically engineering seeds to handle the massive injection of aluminum in arable soil.

Dennis

[Fred259]

Hey Dennis,………What an opportunity!.. you of all people know who to call, why not do that and post up the reply…

[RedeZra]

Never mind, its not all bad news. We now know that at least one of the pilots on 9/11 is behind bars which is to be expected given they have no further use for his services. For the avoidance of any doubt this man below was born in Britain and is not a Muslim. Another non barking dog you could say.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzh3adTWZOg


I don't know if he barks but he bites

He broke an entry raped and murdered so it's best to lock him away for a long while

[Dennis Jonathan]

Hey Dennis,………What an opportunity!.. you of all people know who to call, why not do that and post up the reply…

My personal version of integrity:

Speak plainly, or not at all.

One of many.

[Dennis Leahy]

Hey Dennis,………What an opportunity!.. you of all people know who to call, why not do that and post up the reply…

Hi Fred,

I actually have two extended family members that were professional pilots. (I'm pretty sure that's what you're referring to.) Why would they know anything about chemtrails? They flew commercial passenger jets.

I realize that there are people who believe these are commercial passenger aircraft doing the spraying, and I have to chuckle and imagine the voice coming from the cockpit, "This is your captain speaking. Thank you for flying with us today. If you look out the right side of the plane, you'll see the Grand Canyon. Pay no attention to the white trails coming off the wings."

I have no such thoughts. I assume that normal, commercial, passenger aircraft never spray anything. (Well, that is if you don't count the rare, occasional blue ice (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_ice_%28aircraft%29) incident.)

Sounds like you know a bit about avation, and avation equipment. Then you are well aware of thousands of aircraft that are fitted with tanks to spray aerosolized stuff/crap/poison/pesticides/herbicides/fungicides and anything else that can be put into the tanks. They do have switches to turn them on, and to turn them off.

Are you suggesting that it is impossible to take the "crop duster" technology, refine it for higher altitude delivery systems, fit larger (non-passenger) jets with much larger capacity tanks, and spray whatever they feel like spraying? Or, are you saying it improbable? Or are you saying that it is certainly technologically feasible but that you just don't believe it?

Dennis

[Fructedor]

Thanks Ice for starting this thread and for hosting the mostly respectful discussion on the subject in true Avalonian style.

I have to say that I have no doubt that chemtrails and contrails have nothing in common. I remember my Dad explaining contrails to me when I was a nipper back in the 1950’s – high-temperature fuel exhaust meeting very cold air, creating a form of steam, just like steam from a kettle. When the temperature of the exhaust harmonizes with the ambient air, the steam disappears – this means that contrails fade away a short distance behind the plane, usually after about 30 seconds or so.

The aerosol grids that criss-cross the skies these days do not fade away, but disperse over hours, transforming what was a natural clear blue sky into a dull grey haze. The simple fact that our bue skies are being stolen angers me quite enough. There’s one video posted earlier on this thread that clearly shows the difference between a contrail and a chemtrail.

I’ve been aware of this phenomenon for many years – like many people who have posted here, I’ve seen noughts and crosses grids of seven or eight lines each way fencing the sky, and watched them turn into a misty haze. To anyone watching the sky, it’s clear that this is not a natural phenomenon.

There is abundant proof that companies like Monsanto are engaged in manipulation of the genetics of life on Earth, and that none of these manipulations are performed for the benefit of the general public. There seems to be proof that HAARP technology can readily be used to manipulate weather phenomena to the extent of steering hurricanes, creating drought and floods and triggering earthquakes – actual scientific proof that they have been used to these ends is probably lacking, but we do know that lying to the public is the basic job description of government. Cf. New York 9/11, London 7/7, Tchernobyl, and any of the secretive war-mongering and assassination activities undertaken as far back as we can remember. Tragically, the list is long.

A couple of valid questions – why would politicians condone such activities as chemtrails if they know these programmes will damage their own health and that of their families? And how would such programmes be kept secret, given the huge number of people involved? I have no ready answer, but some speculation.

First, it seems quite likely that many mid-level politicians might be working on the basis of a lie, and that they themselves don’t know the full extent or ramifications of these programmes – furthermore, I think it highly probable that members of the elite have access not only to the full gen about these programmes, but also access to all sorts of effective health products which would adequately protect them. A number of such products are available to the general public, but are usually extremely poorly-known, and often the target of quite vicious disinformation campaigns – and there are almost certainly existing health technologies and products that are hidden from us, just as so much as else is hidden from us – the list is probably greater than we imagine. Cf. Pete Peterson, Bill Deagle just off the top of my head. No doubt David Wilcock would have plenty to say about that also.

Second, and this is the question I have a little trouble with – how come there are no, or very few, whistle-blowers about programmes like chemtrails? Official or unofficial Secrets Acts? Death threats? We could also ask how come there are so many people willing to don protective gear and go and brutalize their brothers and sisters who are demonstrating to express perfectly valid citizens’ right – and even fire weapons at them? Personally, I fail to understand, and many people I know also fail to understand how they can do it – and yet there are tens of thousands of them. What about the ordinary people who put the explosives into the WTC?

So what is being sprayed? There’s plenty of information here and on other sites – personally I’ve researched very little of this, but heavy metals do seem to be a common factor. What’s it for? I suspect that it may have something to do with optimizing the wave technologies such as HAARP. There is also evidence that it has a very negative effect on human health – I have discussed this with doctors and health professionals, and I know that here in Europe, the number of pulmonary disorders has increased dramatically over the last twenty years – not to mention the advent of debilitating diseases like Alzheimers and any number of diseases directly related to the depletion of our immune system. Again, when I was a kid, I remember my Mum complaining about what was then the new government decision to put flouride in the water, ostensibly to protect childrens’ teeth. She had been a nurse, and was quite angry about the fact that flouride was dangerous. She moaned about vaccines too.

Chemtrails have increased over the last couple of decades, and anyone who pays any attention to the sky knows this. And we also know that when the government has access to any kind of obnoxious technology, they’ll use it one way or another – and it won’t be for our benefit.

So I’m convinced that chemtrails are in fact chemtrails, but just as with a number of other subjects, I’m not yet entirely sure who or what or why. It just ain’t natural.

Best wishes

Fructedor

[T Smith]

Thanks Ice for starting this thread and for hosting the mostly respectful discussion on the subject in true Avalonian style.

I have to say that I have no doubt that chemtrails and contrails have nothing in common. I remember my Dad explaining contrails to me when I was a nipper back in the 1950’s – high-temperature fuel exhaust meeting very cold air, creating a form of steam, just like steam from a kettle. When the temperature of the exhaust harmonizes with the ambient air, the steam disappears – this means that contrails fade away a short distance behind the plane, usually after about 30 seconds or so.

The aerosol grids that criss-cross the skies these days do not fade away, but disperse over hours, transforming what was a natural clear blue sky into a dull grey haze. The simple fact that our bue skies are being stolen angers me quite enough. There’s one video posted earlier on this thread that clearly shows the difference between a contrail and a chemtrail.

I’ve been aware of this phenomenon for many years – like many people who have posted here, I’ve seen noughts and crosses grids of seven or eight lines each way fencing the sky, and watched them turn into a misty haze. To anyone watching the sky, it’s clear that this is not a natural phenomenon.

There is abundant proof that companies like Monsanto are engaged in manipulation of the genetics of life on Earth, and that none of these manipulations are performed for the benefit of the general public. There seems to be proof that HAARP technology can readily be used to manipulate weather phenomena to the extent of steering hurricanes, creating drought and floods and triggering earthquakes – actual scientific proof that they have been used to these ends is probably lacking, but we do know that lying to the public is the basic job description of government. Cf. New York 9/11, London 7/7, Tchernobyl, and any of the secretive war-mongering and assassination activities undertaken as far back as we can remember. Tragically, the list is long.

A couple of valid questions – why would politicians condone such activities as chemtrails if they know these programmes will damage their own health and that of their families? And how would such programmes be kept secret, given the huge number of people involved? I have no ready answer, but some speculation.

First, it seems quite likely that many mid-level politicians might be working on the basis of a lie, and that they themselves don’t know the full extent or ramifications of these programmes – furthermore, I think it highly probable that members of the elite have access not only to the full gen about these programmes, but also access to all sorts of effective health products which would adequately protect them. A number of such products are available to the general public, but are usually extremely poorly-known, and often the target of quite vicious disinformation campaigns – and there are almost certainly existing health technologies and products that are hidden from us, just as so much as else is hidden from us – the list is probably greater than we imagine. Cf. Pete Peterson, Bill Deagle just off the top of my head. No doubt David Wilcock would have plenty to say about that also.

Second, and this is the question I have a little trouble with – how come there are no, or very few, whistle-blowers about programmes like chemtrails? Official or unofficial Secrets Acts? Death threats? We could also ask how come there are so many people willing to don protective gear and go and brutalize their brothers and sisters who are demonstrating to express perfectly valid citizens’ right – and even fire weapons at them? Personally, I fail to understand, and many people I know also fail to understand how they can do it – and yet there are tens of thousands of them. What about the ordinary people who put the explosives into the WTC?

So what is being sprayed? There’s plenty of information here and on other sites – personally I’ve researched very little of this, but heavy metals do seem to be a common factor. What’s it for? I suspect that it may have something to do with optimizing the wave technologies such as HAARP. There is also evidence that it has a very negative effect on human health – I have discussed this with doctors and health professionals, and I know that here in Europe, the number of pulmonary disorders has increased dramatically over the last twenty years – not to mention the advent of debilitating diseases like Alzheimers and any number of diseases directly related to the depletion of our immune system. Again, when I was a kid, I remember my Mum complaining about what was then the new government decision to put flouride in the water, ostensibly to protect childrens’ teeth. She had been a nurse, and was quite angry about the fact that flouride was dangerous. She moaned about vaccines too.

Chemtrails have increased over the last couple of decades, and anyone who pays any attention to the sky knows this. And we also know that when the government has access to any kind of obnoxious technology, they’ll use it one way or another – and it won’t be for our benefit.

So I’m convinced that chemtrails are in fact chemtrails, but just as with a number of other subjects, I’m not yet entirely sure who or what or why. It just ain’t natural.

Best wishes

Fructedor

I suspect most of the pilots are are privy to classified mid-level disinformation, backed by conclusions of a clandestine pseudo scientific government think tank. In other words, they are the useful idiots of this campaign. The skinny version fed to them: geoengineering is necessary to avert devastating consequences of global warming, the true gravity of which the public is not fully unaware of, and the public must not know. In other words, the mission they are executing is not a matter for public debate. To the pilots, this is just a noble humanitarian mission -- albeit top secret and very classified. Or something to this effect.

The global warming disinformation program is so active in the public imagination, it would not be difficult to convince compartmentalized military personnel to nobly execute geoengineering in dutiful silence. As far as politicians go -- it is also quite easy to imagine this as a "third rail" issue nobody is willing to touch. That said, there have been a few brave politicians who have addressed the matter, but they have been successfully silenced.

As long as we are speculating -- and I for one agree to speculate only after concluding that chemtrailing is a factual phenomenon -- the real objectives may be far more expansive than we generally tend to think about. In a classical pyramidal structure of disinformation, those who think they are in the know (e.g. pilots and mid-level industrial military complex types) believe geoengineering is saving the planet from imminent Al-Goreian doom. A more inner circle may subscribe to the Malthusian paradigm of eradicating the weak. I don't dwell on the logic of this, e.g. why would the elite destroy their own air supply? Some of the hard-core eugenicists have such a distain for humanity that all logic breaks down. Think Prince Phillip, who is on record stating he would like to reincarnate as a deadly virus to wipe out the human race. The more soft-core eugenicists are likely signing onto a dumbing-down-the-masses campaign and believe they have the medical knowledge and technology to counter the culling. And then there's the explanations in plain sight. it could be a genuine attempt to absorb deadly radiation from either the approaching dwarf star, as mentioned earlier in this thread, or radiation that is emitting from the Mir Space station in the upper atmosphere, to which Pete Peterson alluded. Barium does absorb radiation.

To speak to Richard Dolan's research, I think chemtrialing is probably something the break-away civilization is doing, for reasons beyond our understanding. It could be they are trying to alter the electromagnetism of the very atmosphere to be more conducive to the materialization of intra-dimensional energy fields or intra-dimensional space craft. Who knows? For sure we need to keep discussing.

[Dennis Jonathan]

I think it's important to define "elite".

The controlling elite do exist, but I think we assume who is in this group too liberally.

If I was a part of this group, I would not accept a group of upstart professional liars after simply winning an election. After all, they run the risk of losing their position of power after one term. Hardly a worthy addition.

I think the amount of politicians in the "elite" is very small, if any.

[John Parslow]

Hello Icecold


There has been a debate on the Chemtrail Pilot Talks thread. In my view, that debate has shown that with the use of solid real world evidence, that chemtrail conspiracy is a pack of disinformation mainly presented on two suspect sites...

Although I am generally not a conspiracy theorist and insist on checking my facts before I post, on this particular subject I am quite unable to illicit any real data online. Therefore I am surprised that you state above unequivocally that what is presently happening in our skies is either crop-spraying or fuel dumping. For one the jets which fly over here are far to high to have any use whatsoever as crop spraying and as for fuel dumping - then they must have the whole aeroplane filled up with fuel to dump so much over us.

I live on the coast at the South Western tip of England; since I have lived here (in sunny weather) the sky has always been a beautiful azure blue. Not so recently, I have sat in my garden looking at a blue sky early in the morning and then the high altitude jets start to fly across and they are definitely spraying something! In a matter of hours the ‘chem’ trail or whatever they leave in their wake starts to fan out - fusing with all the others and in due course we have no more sun but a grey overcast day.

I have been sky-watching for the best part of my life and am old enough to know the difference between a contrail which dissipates within several minutes of a jet flying over and a chem-trail which most assuredly does not. I cannot say with any conviction what these are, but contrails they certainly are not!

As for large scale crop-spraying - this just does not happen here, although it is a rural area - we have many small farms and small-holdings; any crop spraying if done at all would be off the back of a tractor.

Best regards to you. JP :cool:

[Icecold]

OK. Fred, they are definitely convincing me that there is something going on. lol

Now we have come this far we need to ascertain what it is they are doing....and what it is they are not doing.

I can't believe there is a bio weapon program against the world population. That just can't be, the MIC and the PTB would also be victims.

It has to be something else that is non-lethal in the sense that there is some other motive.

So lets develop a rational black ops theory we can agree on?

Hasn't someone suggested that Reptilians breath CO2? Yeh I know....but I'm just throwing it out there. :)

[Icecold]

Hello Icecold


There has been a debate on the Chemtrail Pilot Talks thread. In my view, that debate has shown that with the use of solid real world evidence, that chemtrail conspiracy is a pack of disinformation mainly presented on two suspect sites...

Although I am generally not a conspiracy theorist and insist on checking my facts before I post, on this particular subject I am quite unable to illicit any real data online. Therefore I am surprised that you state above unequivocally that what is presently happening in our skies is either crop-spraying or fuel dumping. For one the jets which fly over here are far to high to have any use whatsoever as crop spraying and as for fuel dumping - then they must have the whole aeroplane filled up with fuel to dump so much over us.

I live on the coast at the South Western tip of England; since I have lived here (in sunny weather) the sky has always been a beautiful azure blue. Not so recently, I have sat in my garden looking at a blue sky early in the morning and then the high altitude jets start to fly across and they are definitely spraying something! In a matter of hours the ‘chem’ trail or whatever they leave in their wake starts to fan out - fusing with all the others and in due course we have no more sun but a grey overcast day.

I have been sky-watching for the best part of my life and am old enough to know the difference between a contrail which dissipates within several minutes of a jet flying over and a chem-trail which most assuredly does not. I cannot say with any conviction what these are, but contrails they certainly are not!

As for large scale crop-spraying - this just does not happen here, although it is a rural area - we have many small farms and small-holdings; any crop spraying if done at all would be off the back of a tractor.

Best regards to you. JP :cool:


Hold your horses old chap. There is nothing unequivocal about it. I'm looking for a rational explanation. That's it.

[Dennis Jonathan]

You can't believe it's a bio weapon, but it may be a reptilian plot for a CO2 rich breathing environment?

Lmao.

[Icecold]

You can't believe it's a bio weapon, but it may be a reptilian plot for a CO2 rich breathing environment?

Lmao.

I don't believe in the reptilian theory either. lmao

So do you have a theory we can agree on?

[Corncrake]

This is an important thread. I have been reading on line about chemtrails for a long time now - and have watched the documentary 'What in the World are they Spraying? among others. I receive ECETI newsletters and James Gilliland is seriously concerned about this. I believe now - without a doubt - that there are chemtrails but when I have tried to apply the knowledge to what I see in the skies over London it is more difficult. Trouble is I live on the west side of London about 11 miles from the very busy Heathrow airport (not to forget Gatwick) with something in the region of 1000 flights either arriving or departing each day so the skies always have a dozen or so planes in them. The contrast between when the planes were grounded during the Icelandic ash cloud emergency and now was extreme. The contrails rarely seem to dissipate as rapidly as they should and sometimes a hazy mist seems to hang around for hours. I just don't know if this is due to the sheer number of planes in the sky, weather conditions, or something more sinister. Like others I have questioned the wisdom of dropping chemicals over an area like London where much of the corporatocracy and parliament is based and have a few theories about it but none makes much sense. Dumping fuel is quite rare - I was once on a Virgin Flight to the States which had to return to Heathrow because of a cracked window and the tank was all but emptied over the Irish Sea because it is dangerous for the bigger craft to land with a full tank but the FAA says this is rare.

[Dennis Jonathan]

Chemical saturated soil altering ph levels causing growers to rely 100% on gmo chemical resistant seeds seems viable.

Weather control as well.

I wouldn't put anything past them, but those two seem at least to be likely first level objectives.

The knowledge of intended, or unintended collateral affects is probably compartmentalized on a need to know basis.

[T Smith]

You can't believe it's a bio weapon, but it may be a reptilian plot for a CO2 rich breathing environment?

Lmao.

I don't believe in the reptilian theory either. lmao

So do you have a theory we can agree on?

Until I have a better grip on why this is being done, I will reserve all laughter and eliminate no possibility, until proven otherwise. Terraforming for Reptilians is a stretch, for sure. But at the end of the day we may just need to stretch to find out why this is happening in our skies.

[passiglight]

hope this helps,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,



[1] Belfort Group videos of International Symposium on Chemtrails, May 29, 2010 proceedings. http://www.ustream.tv/channel/belfort-test



[2] Michael Murphy website: http://truthmediaproductions.blogspot.com/



[3] Dr Coen Vermeeren, Delft University of Technology bio, n.d.

[4] Dr Coen Vermeeren Symposium speech, Afternoon Part 1 video, (starting at about 35 mins..) (29 May 2010) http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/7299427



[5] Anonymous, “CASE ORANGE: Contrail Science, Its Impact on Climate and Weather Manipulation Programs Conducted by the United States and Its Allies,” 10 May 2010. PDF without appendices:
http://coto2.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/case_orange-5-10-2010-belfort-chemtrails.pdf



[6] High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program, Fact Sheet, 15 Jun 2007. http://www.haarp.alaska.edu/haarp/factSheet.html



[7] Space Preservation Act of 2001, H.R.2977, 107th Congress, 1st Session. Introduced by U.S. Representative Dennis Kucinich.



[8] Deborah Cohen and Philip Carter, “Conflicts of Interest: WHO and the pandemic ‘flu conspiracies,’” British Medical Journal 2010;340:c2912, 3 Jun 2010. http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/340/jun03_4/c2912



[9] The Sunshine Project, “The Limits of Inside Pressure: The US Congress Role in ENMOD,” n.d. Accessed July 2010. http://www.sunshine-project.org/enmod/US_Congr.html



[10] United Nations, “Convention on the Prohibition of Military or Any Other Hostile Use of Environmental Modification Techniques,” Resolution 31/72, 10 Dec 1976, effective 1978. Geneva. http://www.un-documents.net/enmod.htm



[11] Copenhagen Consensus Center, “Top economists recommend climate engineering,” 4 Sep 2009. Press release [pdf]
http://www.copenhagenconsensus.com/Admin/Public/DWSDownload.aspx?File=%2fFiles%2fFiler%2fPress+Releases+2010%2fCC_PRESS_STATEMENT__4september2010_.p df



[12] Catherine Brahic, “Top science body calls for geoengineering ‘plan B’, New Scientist 1 Sep 2009.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17716-top-science-body-calls-for-geoengineering-plan-b.html



[13] Donald K. Werle, et al., “Powder contrail generation,” U.S. Patent 3,899,144, 12 Aug 1975. Assignee: U.S. Secretary of the Navy.
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=3,899,144.PN.&OS=PN/3,899,144&RS=PN/3,899,144



[14] David L Mitchell and William Finnegan, “Modification of Cirrus clouds to reduce global warming,” Environmental Research Letters Vol. 4 No. 4, 30 Oct 2009. Available by subscription: http://iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/4/4/045102



[15] David B. Chang and I-Fu Shih, “Stratospheric Welsbach seeding for reduction of global warming,” U.S. Patent 5,003,186, 26 Mar 1991. Assignee: Hughes Aircraft Company.
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=5,003,186.PN.&OS=PN/5,003,186&RS=PN/5,003,186



[16] Eli Kintisch, “Bill Gates Funding Geoengineering Research,” Science Insider, 26 Jan 2010. http://blogs.sciencemag.org/scienceinsider/2010/01/bill-gates-fund.html.



[17] ETC Group, “Top-down Planet Hackers Call for Bottom-up Governance: Geoengineers’ Bid to Establish Voluntary Testing Regime Must Be Opposed,” 11 Feb 2010. http://www.etcgroup.org/en/node/5073



[18] Food and Water Watch: http://www.foodandwaterwatch.org/water/world-water/right/



[19] Col Tamzy J. House, et al. “Weather as a Force Multiplier: Owning the Weather in 2025,” Department of Defense U.S. Air Force, 17 Jun 1996. Publicly released August 1996. Reproduced at Federation of American Scientists:
http://www.fas.org/spp/military/docops/usaf/2025/v3c15/v3c15-1.htm



[20] Weather Modicaton Association website: http://www.weathermodification.org/



[21] Weather Modification Association, “Position Statement on the Environmental Impact of Using Silver Iodides as a Cloud Seeding Agent,” July 2009.
http://www.weathermodification.org/AGI_toxicity.pdf



[22] World Meteorological Organization, “WMO Statement on Weather Modification,” UN Commission for Atmospheric Sciences Management Group, 26 Sep 2007.
http://www.wmo.int/pages/prog/arep/wwrp/new/documents/WM_statement_guidelines_approved.pdf



[23] Donald J. Travis, et al. “Contrails reduce daily temperature range,” Nature 418, 601, 8 Aug 2002. Reproduced in full by University of Washington, Dept. of Atmospheric Sciences:
http://www.atmos.washington.edu/~rennert/etc/courses/pcc587/ref/Travis-etal2002_Nature.pdf



[24] Subsidiary Body on Scientific, Technical and Technological Advice, “In-depth Review of the Work on Biodiversity and Climate Change, Draft Recommendation,” Convention on Biological Diversity, United Nations Environmental Programme, UNEP/CBD/SBTTA/14/L.9, 15 May 2010. http://www.cbd.int/doc/meetings/sbstta/sbstta-14/in-session/sbstta-14-L-09-en.pdf



[25] United States Code, Title 50, Chapter 32, “Chemical and Biological Warfare Program.” http://uscode.house.gov/download/pls/50C32.txt



[26] James Rodger Fleming, “The pathological history of weather and climate modification: Three cycles of promise and hype,” Historical Studies in the Physical and Biological Sciences, Vol. 37, No. 1, 2006. Available at
http://www.colby.edu/sts/06_fleming_pathological.pdf



[27] Stephen Cole, “Weather on Demand,” American Heritage, 2005. http://www.americanheritage.com/articles/magazine/it/2005/2/2005_2_48.shtml



[28] Monsignore Pizzafunghi Bosselese, “The History of Radar,” BBC, 14 Jul 2003. http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A591545



[29] Fleming, citing New York Times, 15 Nov 1946, 24.



[30] Squires, P. & Smith, E. J., “The Artificial Stimulation of Precipitation by Means of Dry Ice,” Australian Journal of Scientific Research, Series A: Physical Sciences, vol. 2, p.232, 1949AuSRA…2..232S, 1949. Republished at Harvard University:
http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu//full/1949AuSRA…2..232S/0000244.000.html



Also see: Stephen Cole, “Weather on Demand,” American Heritage, 2005.
http://www.americanheritage.com/articles/magazine/it/2005/2/2005_2_48.shtml



[31] Life Magazine, “Solution to Water Shortage: Rain makers’ success shows how New York could fill its reservoirs,” p. 113, 20 Feb 1950.
http://books.google.com/books?id=FVMEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA113&dq=Irving+Langmuir&as_pt=MAGAZINES&cd=1#v=onepage&q=Irving%20Langmuir&f=false



[32] Life Magazine, “U.S. Water: We can supplement our outgrown sources at a price,” 21 Aug 1950, p. 52.
http://books.google.com/books?id=wUoEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA52&lpg=PA52&dq=Irving+Langmuir+rainmaker&source=bl&ots=Ehqq8hZNsE&sig=
tkN51NoxqMsKVq6ClZU9Hvej8g0&hl=en&ei=9mhMTO3vG93llQfjpJHGDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CCIQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q&f=false



[33] John Vidal and Helen Weinstein, “RAF rainmakers ’caused 1952 flood’: Unearthed documents suggest experiment triggered torrent that killed 35 in Devon disaster,” The Guardian, 30 Aug 2001.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/silly/story/0,10821,544259,00.html



Also see: BBC News, “Rain-making link to killer floods,” 30 Aug 2001. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1516880.stm



[34] Jerry E. Smith, “Weather Warfare: The Military’s Plan to Draft Mother Nature,” Adventures Unlimited Press, 2006. pp. 47-54.
http://books.google.com/books?id=G7t260XD8AYC&pg=PA47&dq=stormfury&hl=en&ei=9wJ
OTOfVE4G88gbZ3IGaDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CDEQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=stormfury&f=false



[35] ibid. pp. 54-60.



[36] Richard Gray, “How we made the Chernobyl rain,” Daily Telegraph, 22 Apr 2007.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1549366/How-we-made-the-Chernobyl-rain.html



[37] Ian O’Neill, “The Chinese Weather Manipulation Missile Olympics,” Universe Today, 12 Aug 2008.
http://www.universetoday.com/2008/08/12/the-chinese-weather-manipulation-missile-olympics/

Taken from http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=20369

http://www.livevideo.com/media/playvideo_fs.aspx?fs=1&cid=FA4FC1DA155D4C4FAC883844D2CBCD60


it matters not whether they manipulate the atmosphere or the weather,,,,,,,,their simulations always show the same results,,,,,,,,there is too many of us,,,,,,,,therefore they wish to reduce the population,,,,,,,,,,

Although the above sentence demonstrates the pure ignorance and blind stupidity of the bloodies it still does not change their modus operandi one iota,,,,,,,,,

According to their data we need to be culled,,,,,,,,

However if they honestly believe that they can present this case to ET as plausable explanations for their cut and chop job on this once beautiful planet then they are even more stupid than they are capable of realising,,,,,,,

there are other planets in our solar system in similar size to earth but with over twice the number of citizens living very happily and contented on them,,,,,,,,,

Listen up bloodies,change your tak, you are fooling no one,,,,,,,, and all the while making your case to be seen as reputable a very dim reality,,,,,,,

chucking poisons in the atmosphere to weaken the immune systems and alloys to change the radiation levels and alter climatic conditions is winning you not one single vote offworld,,,,,,

Jeez you guys come across well thick considering you've been running this show for over 30 thousand years,,,,,,,how many more millenia are you gonna need before you finally wake up and change your simulation parameters,,,,,,,,,

OR,IS IT TOO LATE,,,,

Cosmic Love

[Fred259]

Great post Corncrake, I vote #88 the best so far.

Corncrake lives 11 miles from London Heathrow, where 1,000 flights arrive daily.

At 11 miles aircraft passing overhead will be at 3,000 feet approximately.

1,000 flights x say 3 engines per aircraft is 3,000 engines per day going over poor old corncrake! Folks… read what he has to say…

[Fred259]

[QUOTE=Icecold;203774]OK. Fred, they are definitely convincing me that there is something going on. lol

What! Who has convinced you, and with what document or piece of evidence?

You are feeling unloved because everyone disagrees with poor old Icecold.

I see they are all throwing snowballs at your face, that doesn’t make them right.



Now we have come this far we need to ascertain what it is they are doing....and what it is they are not doing.
I can't believe there is a bio weapon program against the world population. That just can't be, the MIC and the PTB would also be victims.
It has to be something else that is non-lethal in the sense that there is some other motive.
So lets develop a rational black ops theory we can agree on?


Excluding crop spraying that takes place worldwide at 30feet above ground level.
And,
Excluding cloud seeding that generally takes place at either the base of the clouds or less than 10,000 feet.

I sincerely believe that the US Air Force or others are involved in I suspect limited testing, evaluation, and perhaps implementation of substances in the atmosphere around Washington State, Oregon, Idaho and Montana.

I sincerely believe that so called “chemtrailing” along with peak oil, water, global warming and others are psychological tools used within a propaganda campaign against mankind.


Where are all the engineers at Avalon?

[shybastid]

Chemtrails is no longer a word that does not meet with immediate resistance. Incorrect word. Some people will not even debate something is being sprayed because you use the word chemtrails. As rediculous as that is...they'll go to the argument that "chemtrails" don't exist.

"Geo engineering" is the hot new word and definition.

Geo Engineering is happening. To what extent,we all want to know.

To say it doesn't exist is like denying Fukashima is fine.

[shybastid]

Fukashima IS fine right? No new reports means we're safe right? OH.... Japanese Government said to keep quit about it.
http://yro.slashdot.org/story/11/04/24/168200/Japanese-Government-Will-Censor-Fukushima-Illegal-Information?utm_source=rss1.0&utm_medium=feed

OH....Hey.....There CAN'T be any GeoEngineering because they would tell us right?

[SKAWF]

it doesnt really matter what the reason is.

one thing i DO know is few things are done for only one reason.
another thing i know, is that residue has been looked at, by several different people,
and these trails are said to contain alluminium, barium, and strontium.
this stuff is coating the planet as a dusty layer.
its getting into streams, lakes, rivers, sea's and oceans.
its landing on the ground and being washed into the earth when it rains.

i say again,

Barium, Strontium, Alluminium.

i saw a doccumentry called 'what in the world are they spraying'

they checked the snow on mount shasta,
it was said to contain many hundreds of times more aluminium than the safe level. maybe thousands (cant quite remember).
people EAT that snow, when they climb the mountain!.....

i dont care why they are doing it. those chemicals are toxic to us.
and they are being sprayed into the atmosphere every day nearly.

our government says nothing. in fact, they all say nothing.
if it was legit, they would be falling over themselves to tell us about it.
they would be lauding it as something they are doing out of concern for us,
but they say nothing.

you wouldnt use those chemicals to garnish a meal,
but you're breathing it in, eating it in foods, and bathing in it

Barium, Strontium, and alluminium.

steve

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Its not poison. ITS WEATHER MODIFICATION. WWIII is currently ongoing and 99% of humans are unaware of it. Its astounding, really. The reason Cts are prevailant in America on a daily basis is because many nations have HAARP like technologies. We are "protecting" our environments from other nations weather weapons. Katrina was a weather attack IMO, these tornados tearing through the midwest aren't natural. The age of atomic weaponry is all but obsolete, for now we have weapons that not only kill, they destroy infrastructure, economically cripple, yes, tectonic weaponry DOES exist and the tech. is as old as Tesla. All of this is done anonymously, with no accountability, which makes these types of wea[pons so appealing to the scum that are using them. Pandora's box has been opened. IMO, which is a fairly well informed one :)

[Koyaanisqatsi]

This is almost ENTIRELY done by private corporations too. "What, you can develop a usable system for enacting "Air Force 2025"?, Here's a few billion in contract form , you have 5 years to get it right and ready to use on a battlefield on a moments notice. Every employee you have will sign disclosure documents, if they say a word, they'll be imprisoned and fined. We expect regular updates". Then, the scum from Evergreen and Haliburton would dance a jig out of the room and to the bank. This is probably eerily similar to what really is said I would guess. Once this technology exists, we become FORCED to develop it faster and better than the next guy or risk getting "outstormed" or "out-natural disastered" by China or Russia. Again, IMO.

[Fred259]

Koyaanisqatsi,

Im struggling a bit with some of your points.

You say Katrina was a weather attack, by this do you mean it was “manufactured” and not caused by nature?

Tornados in the mid west again you say they are not natural?

I have heard it mentioned about Katrina before on a radio show, but I have to say some very sound scientific evidence exists pointing at the way tropical revolving storms propagate and this would of course include Katrina. Likewise with the tornados

Can you tell us more why Katrina for example,.. Hurricanes happen every year and have always done so. Sure Katrina was a big storm but as I say science has sound explanations as to why it was a big storm..

[shybastid]

How great is it Geo Engineering is G.E. for short? Must be a conspiracy. And G.E. is the largest manufacturer of engine components in the world.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/johnb300m/house-votes-to-kill-f35-second-engine-program_n_824177_77736461.html
And that's on a liberal's website. We all know about GE getting a tax favor after Obama put the President of GE on his counsel.

GE claims the only reason they did'nt pay taxes last year was because they lost so much money lending to underqualified homeowners and did'nt know they could'nt pay it back.

Thus the tax write off for lost investment.

Bull****.

They started in Car Loans and went into Home Loans.
http://www.bnet.com/blog/auto-business/gmac-8217s-billion-dollar-write-off-shows-ripple-effect-of-the-used-car-market/1068

Staying on topic..... Geo Engineering is real...GE is real.. And SOMEONE isn't talking.

Remember ...sign a great package to secure the rest of you and your families life. Break the contract? Maybe broke and your family is broke.

AND? You could spend the rest of your life behind bars for breach of National Security. YOU signed it.

Bless the Camelot/Avalon Whistleblowers. You guys have huervo ranchchero's.

Thank You for that.. Someone will come forward in due time to do a disclosure about Geo and that will be that.

Then what?

I TOLD you so has no merit anymore.

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Koyaanisqatsi,

Im struggling a bit with some of your points.

You say Katrina was a weather attack, by this do you mean it was “manufactured” and not caused by nature?

Tornados in the mid west again you say they are not natural?

I have heard it mentioned about Katrina before on a radio show, but I have to say some very sound scientific evidence exists pointing at the way tropical revolving storms propagate and this would of course include Katrina. Likewise with the tornados

Can you tell us more why Katrina for example,.. Hurricanes happen every year and have always done so. Sure Katrina was a big storm but as I say science has sound explanations as to why it was a big storm..

I appreciate your scientific nature fred. You are the Scully to my Mulder. Here we go, we are at a point now where its really getting hard to say for certain what is or isn't natural weather phenomena. Katrina caught my eye for many reasons, not the least of which were its abnormal travel patterns, hopw it gained strength ovr land, and the area(perhaps the most hurricane susceptible geo location). Your words SEEM to indicate that you believe man has not the ability to manufacture on quick notice a storm., Cool. I disagree wholeheartedly with you. If you applied such skepticism to every area of your life you might find yourself questioning your faith/country/values, your whole world view as you know it. I'm not saying you haven't, just asking that we are honest and not hypocritical with ourselves. Being scientific, Christianity, or large part thereof, becomes comedic. Back to the point. I KNOW weather mod is happening as I see it nearly everyday and as I've said Before, myBEST friend works at Evergreen airfield, i live less than an hour away. I am privy to information that most are not. Simple as that. I KNOW what you don't, but i simply inform people, i don't need or really even want you to believe me. Do your homework, private corps are developing this tech, funded by the government. Its all staring you straight in the face friend, you are well on your way to finding truth, but its hard to find the world is not as it seems, i would'nt blame you for rejecting this. many do because its scary if you let it. All the best, do the homework don't take my word for it:)

[Fructedor]

A little off the original topic, but in response to Koyaanisqatsi’s post

Re. Katrina – I saw this in 2005 in a blog I used to participate in – there had been extensive discussion about Katrina of course, and at one point, someone posted an actual animated GeoSat image of Katrina’s progress. During its development, the storm in fact took an unexpected turn - the image clearly showed five anomalous heat signatures to the East of the hurricane which apparently pushed it off its previous course and led it to New Orleans. The image was up for a couple of days, but after that, the GeoSat reference (NOAA?) led to a different image than the one that had originally been posted. I didn’t save the original – I’ve written asking for directions to it, in case anyone saved it. Otherwise, I can give you this reference. These are images of Hurricane Rita.

http://rigorousintuition.blogspot.com/2005/09/it-doesnt-take-weatherman_26.html

The heat signatures for Katrina looked very much like those in the smaller image here – like five ‘fingers’ – they appeared and disappeared together and lasted until the hurricane turned North. In the larger image of Rita, the most curious event is the appearance of the long arc of heated air streaking from North to East. It definitely doesn’t look like a natural phenomenon.

I don’t have the skills to correctly interpret these images. However, what I’ve read and seen about HAARP makes it plain that it can be used for weather modification in various ways. It can cause earthquakes and thus the tsunamis that result. It can alter weather conditions. As to why this might be done, we find ourselves once again in the realm of speculation, which is always dangerous ground.

Thanks also to T Smith – I thought your comments about the secrecy issue were very pertinent – certainly there are many participants in government programmes who sincerely believe they are working for the greater good.

Any comments from people who are used to reading these images – or of course who have information about chemtrails – would be welcome. Concerning chemtrails again – the skies above my garden have been true blue over the Easter weekend, although most days there’s plenty of chemtrail activity. If I can get photos of this, I’ll post them.

Best wishes

Fructedor

[ceetee9]

There has been a debate on the Chemtrail Pilot Talks thread. In my view, that debate has shown that with the use of solid real world evidence, that chemtrail conspiracy is a pack of disinformation mainly presented on two suspect sites.......

1. www.rense.com

2. educate-yourself.org

Other than these two disinformation sources, there is very little discussion of chemtrails anywhere else.

I've started this thread as a place to lay down the evidence for the contrail/chaff theory of trails in the sky.

The problem with the new age movement is that a bunch of fairy-loving myth readers want to convince you that they understand science or natural phenomena. They have no clue outside of fairy tales or hysteria peddling.


Original thread here.....
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?17730-Chemtrail-pilot-talks

While I respect your opinion, Icecold, I'm not sure how you arrived at the conclusion that the "use of solid real world evidence, that chemtrail conspiracy is a pack of disinformation mainly presented on two suspect sites." First, disinformation, half-truths, and out-right lies can be found on virtually all websites. Let's not forget that EVERY website and blogger has an agenda--including your supposed "solid real world evidence" sites/bloggers/experts.

There is no end to well educated "experts" out there who will take diametrically opposed positions on any given subject. So the question doesn't so easily boil down to who is right or what is true, but, rather, who the reader finds the most convincing or, more likely than not, on which side of the argument does the reader's belief system align most favorably. We would all like to think that we are open-minded, capable of discerning fact from fiction, and ready, willing and able to be swayed in the opposite direction when the "true facts" dictate that that is the logical and appropriate decision. But the sad truth is, IMO, that most people are more interested in seeking validation and support from like-minded individuals than truly seeking the truth and changing their world view--particularly when it comes to deeply passionate subjects like religion and politics.

Anyway, just to help keep you honest, here are a few URLs I posted on the "Chemtrail Pilot Talks" thread (and there are many more) for those who are truly attempting to connect the dots and find the truth. I'm not saying the truth is going to be found here, just that here are a few more, hopefully helpful, places to continue your search for the truth:

Patent for atmospheric chemical spraying to reduce UV radiation (1994-02-15):
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...186&RS=5003186

Welsbach Patent (5,003,186) for Stratospheric Welsbach Seeding for reduction of global warming (1991-03-26)
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...S=PN/5,003,186

USC Title 50 Chapter 32 on Chemical and Biological Warfare (revised 2010-02-01):
http://uscode.house.gov/download/pls/50C32.txt -- (of particular interest section 1520a)

Atlanta Progressive News investigation (2011-02-13):
http://www.atlantaprogressivenews.co...-concerns.html

North Florida Gulf Skywatch information on chemtrails:
http://saive.com/BELFORT.html

William Thomas’ book Chemtrails Confirmed! (2004-08):
http://www.amazon.com/Chemtrails-Con...2213714&sr=8-1

Study: Persistent Contrails (Chemtrails?) Indeed Produced by Non-Regular Air Traffic (2010-03-06):
http://genesgreenbook.com/content/st...ar-air-traffic

Trail Research Report by M Steadham (2001-01-20):
http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/report.shtml

[nomadguy]

>>> http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?19191-Chemtrail-test-data-PDFs-this-is-REAL-research-on-the-issue-of-geo-engineering

[Koyaanisqatsi]

>>> http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?19191-Chemtrail-test-data-PDFs-this-is-REAL-research-on-the-issue-of-geo-engineering

I've been in close contact with thetruthdenied. I won't slander, but what I will say is their take is a bit "Doomsdayist" in nature. Their research is commendable but when I contacted them with the information/informant I have, the undisciplined and unorganized nature of .....whatever surfaced. They insisted contact with my informant, in an attempt to cut me out of the situation. Ha, they know so little about whats going on at Evergreen despite their cause. I'm not attempting to trash their group, they do good work, they just failed to allow me to disperse my info in a way that would make everyone feel safe and comfortable.

[Some Bloke]

Hi I'm fairly new here, my wife and I noticed the trail thing a few years ago, I've read up on it since becoming a 'tin hatter' about 9 months ago.
I take hundreds of 'landscape' photos every year, in 2006 I went digital, I've been through all my old photos and can only find con trails ( short ones) before 2008, something has definately changed
Planes fly over in the morning (all heading south) and the trails drift east slowly spreading out into a milky film that lasts all day .
I have photos of the break between con and chem trails from a single plane, and other such wierd stuff but lack the computer skills to post them (much to my frustration)
There is no way this is fuel dumping (like its so cheap)
Oh yeah, I also have seen and photographed 'crap' falling out of the sky after two weeks of solid chem trailing prior to the harvest last year

[norman]

Whaw!... I can't believe there are still people posting on this thread who think they are all contrails.

Have I missed something?

[Patrikas]

Whaw!... I can't believe there are still people posting on this thread who think they are all contrails.

Have I missed something?

Nope dont think u have missed anything at all ........but some have .....cheers

[Fred259]

Whaw!... I can't believe there are still people posting on this thread who think they are all contrails.

Have I missed something?


Maybe…

Norman can you help us have they found any traces of Barium or Aluminium perhaps. I see from you flag you’re in Wales, it’s a major crossing point for transatlantic traffic….

[Some Bloke]

It's said that they are spraying Barium and aluminium, if this is true it will show in the hair , this is a better test of minerals & metals absorbed over time than a blood test . If you are trying to prove the reality of chemtrails this might be the way to go

[Some Bloke]

Con & chem trails separating

[Some Bloke]

Cheers Latte!!!!!

[Fred259]

Con & chem trails separating



On what basis do you say this… some bloke?

I would thoroughly dispute your remark. The two contrails are well separated and belong to different aircraft as can be clearly seen. The twisting moment is caused by low pressure vortices and eventually the other trail will also feature these dissipating twisting trails.

[Some Bloke]

Fred259 I would probably think the same , but I watched the plane pass, and when I saw that trail I grabbed my camera, that I keep by the door, the any thing I did to the picture was enlargement and cropping (which is about all I'm up to) The trails are only feet apart, if a plane had flown directly down anothers trail wouldn't it be massively dispersed ?

[Fred Steeves]

Supposedly they started in the early to mid 90's, if so, has anyone come across a commercial or movie clip from befor then showing one? I see them all the time in commerciala and shows now.

Often I see planes flying at similar cruising altitudes, some will leave the streak, some won't, often at the same time. I used to skydive, so I'm fairly adept atleast to judging altitudes.

I don't think planes dump fuel all the way across the sky, plane after plane.

Often I'll see them get half way across the sky and then the trail starts.

Sometimes the trail sputters, not likely these are pockets of differing humidity.

HAS ANYONE SEEN THE GULF OF MEXICO FOOTAGE OF THE COAST GUARD PLANE SPEWING COREXIT FROM BOTH WINGS? THAT LOOKS AWEFULLY FAMILIAR, ESPECIALLY IF YOU PICTURE IT AT 30,000 FEET.

Just my personal observations. Interesting thread.


Cheers,
Fred S.

[Taurean]

I'm inclined to support the theory that tptb are trying to minimise certain incoming solar rays targeted on humanity to activate the DNA.

Why would they put toxic stuff in the atmosphere that would equally affect them ?

I was in the Algarve in Portugal last week and it was interesting to see them start spraying a couple of miles offshore, only during the day and only on the blue sky days.

[Fred259]

[
QUOTE=Taurean;206390]I'm inclined to support the theory that tptb are trying to minimise certain incoming solar rays.
Yes, its called Geo Engineering.


Targeted on humanity to activate the DNA.
I don’t think so…


Why would they put toxic stuff in the atmosphere that would equally affect them ?

Indeed why would they, you answer your own question.


I was in the Algarve in Portugal last week and it was interesting to see them start spraying a couple of miles offshore, only during the day and only on the blue sky days.

The word F*** is banned on this forum, they should do the same with "spraying"

No this is not happening seriously it's not. Two seconds ago you made a statement;

“Why would they put toxic stuff in the atmosphere that would equally effect them”.

Good sensible point. Then you go and spoil it and talk about spraying, you’ve just said it’s crazy because it would effect them as well. Lol



Only during the day and only on the blue sky days.

Only during the day? All day or just half the day, and then only on blue sky days, what about red sky days, green sky days does it not sound ludicrous.

The reason it’s offshore and not onshore is the difference between the temps offshore when compared to onshore. Portugal, hot, the land mass is warmer when compared with the sea causing convection. The sea is cooler causing less convection in the atmosphere.

The atmosphere is like a living reef.

Think of it like an undersea coral reef, things are changing all the time as nature changes weather systems, forming clouds and then dissipating clouds, water held in a gaseous state (vapor) then cooled to become water droplets, cooled again as the air rises and changing again to ice, further cooling ice rising in convective currents, flowing from high pressure to low pressure, cooling as it rises.

Wait a moment this is a storm cloud building, severe cumulonimbus death traps, ice is now rising at 10,000 feet per minute cooling instantly, now it’s ping ponk ball size, as it continues rising in less dense air, the speed of cooling increases now its tennis ball size, further lifting shock cooling this is nature folks, now its great chunks of ice being sucked upwards as high as the tropopause or 50,000 feet in Australia, Florida and the tropics but less in higher latitudes 20-30,000 say max.

You’ve seen those massive big clouds develop especially in the tropics or on holiday. When its moisture source is removed look for the anvil cloud at the very top, now its dissipating folks, time to get the kids indoors.. this has spoilt many an Aussie afternoon BBQ!

I’m not exaggerating appreciate tens of thousands of tons of water sublimated into ice is above your house at 50,000 feet the size of footballs. Now the whole lot is about to come thundering down, no no an umbrella isn’t going to save you!

However nature does because the tennis balls are now falling en masse perhaps spread over a large area 30sq miles for example warming and melting as they fall.

In the sky the daylight drops, (Aussies will confirm this) the pressure shoots up (caused by whats about to fall) and the temp drops dramatically,you feel it in the air and even on your skin it's cold dense air (it's come from 50,000ft and -60C).. all caused by what is about to fall from the heavens.

By the time it reaches above the ground the wind direction veers (clockwise) and increases dramatically, gust front and windshear dominate the local area then it's pelting hard in N Europe, very hard in Spain and Very very very hard in Aus and the tropics, hail stones drilling on tin roofs severe enough to destroy whole orchards and crops, and causing flash local flooding.

It’s a living atmosphere, its like the great barrier reef, its nature….

Mods… Where is Dale, he understands all this I need a hand…?

[Fred259]

[/ATTACH]
Fred259 I[QUOTE] would probably think the same ,

Hi Some Bloke, with respect I’m not thinking the same, I am providing factual information. The two trails are entirely separate and have been produced at different time frames; I think even looking at picture this is obvious.


But I watched the plane pass, and when I saw that trail I grabbed my camera, that I keep by the door, the any thing I did to the picture was enlargement and cropping (which is about all I'm up to) The trails are only feet apart, if a plane had flown directly down anothers trail wouldn't it be massively dispersed ?

You say these aircraft were “feet away” and really this confirms the nonsense Some Bloke doesn’t it. Assuming the aircraft are 5 miles high that’s 30,000 feet away and so it’s impossible for a human eye to detect an object 5 miles away and moving at 450kts or 760 feet per second. ET’s perhaps, I don’t know ask Bill he might know.

It’s impossible for aircraft to be feet away from each other. Airways are ten miles wide or 60,000 feet. Absolute minimum separation of any aircraft is 3 miles or 18,000 feet four times the highest of Britain highest mountain or the height of Kilimanjaro if you will. At cruise altitude with increased speed separation is greatly increased.

Something you should consider when looking at far away objects. It’s called Parallax error. It plays tricks with your brain.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallax


7115[
Parallax Error



If a plane had flown directly down anothers trail wouldn't it be massively dispersed ?

First you say the trails are only feet apart, so you are telling the forum this. We have dealt with that above. Then you say “if the plane” is flown directly down another trail then wouldn’t it be massively dispersed? Now you are asking a question which kind of speaks volumes.

The answer is No.

When an aircraft at high speed moves through the air it generates heat due to friction. Engineers call this compressibility factor. On Concorde the heat gain was over 100C and so the increase in generated heat is proportional to speed as illustrated in this graph. The effect of this heat on the atmosphere will change the existing contrail instantly into a gaseous state. After the aircraft has passed and the old colder air again takes precedence the contrail will reappear, again instantly.


7116

Compressibility & friction on the atmosphere = temp increase.


I am trying to use all available resources to explain this and the above chart is the best one on the web. However we have a serious problem don’t we be it Iraq, 9/11 or the funny money system, its all lies misinformation and disinformation were crooks and criminals dominate.

The chart above is the best chart available explaining compressibility factor, however it unfortunately comes from a Aerospace web a bunch of scoundrels operating a 9/11 disinformation service probably paid for by GE. We know this from the past.

I invite you to study the chart. What these bam pots have done is changed the left hand column from a positive+ factor to a negative - factor. Ask yourself. If you pump a bicycle pump you are looking at compressibility factor in your hands, and so does the pump get hotter or colder. Hotter ! so why would this graph be graduated in negative- or a minus. Everything about the chart is 100% correct except Aerospace web have been and are taking known science and turning it on its head to prove to the sheeple that all is OK, aircraft and buildings can disappear yet paper passports can still be found on a New York sidewalk. Its also an example why you shouldn’t trust the web.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compressibility

Aircraft also produce massive trailing edge vortices. In this image the aircraft is landing, the speed will be around 140kts, so it’s slow yet look at the effect of the vortices created at left wingtip. The same is happening on the other wingtip expect you can’t see it. The trails from the middle section of the wings are caused by low pressure air spilling over the top of the wing and meeting high pressure air spilling out from the edge of the flaps from under the wing.


7119

Trailing edge vortices

If we now raise the flaps and landing gear, increase the nose attitude and add a bit of power the aircraft will climb away at say 190kts to 10,000 feet, these trailing edge vortices and the spiraling effect will increase dramatically. Above 10,000 the speed will increase to 280Kts and so will those vortices. At 35,000 feet going level the speed is now 450 kts and so they are massive vortices and are absolutely lethal death traps.

Here is the report on wake turbulence. You can clearly see the perils of two aircrafts flying close. If these trails are feet apart as previously suggested in the image, the vortices would have flipped the second aircraft over and you would have a much more dramatic picture to share with the world. Two heavy aircraft operating in the same airspace separation is 4nm which is 24,000 feet apart and 1000feet minimum vertical separation as detailed in the ICAO report.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wake_turbulence



Contrails are formed when the wet and dry bulb temperatures are the same or close to the same. The atmosphere will be 100% relative humidity supersaturated air mass.

If the relative humidity is 100% contrails will form. If the relative humidity is less than 100% contrails will never form.

Below is an image of a wet dry bulb thermometer, you already know how contrails are formed because you did this at school, you’ve just forgotten, it happens to us all.


7120

Wet & Dry Bulb Temps


It’s best to place this thermometer in a shaded position facing north on your doorstep or back yard. When the air temp or dry bulb is +5C and the wet bulb or dew point as its called is +3C relative humidity is less than 100% and no mist of fog will form on your doorstep or yard.

If the dry bulb temperature in winter for example as evening approaches drops to +3C, and with the wet bulb temp at +3 mist and fog will form on your doorstep. This is because the relative humidity is now 100%. The air is super saturated.

Now we are going to take the same thermometer and change the scale to minus figures. At the same time we call up our friendly ET and ask him/her or it for a slow lift through the atmosphere to 30,000 feet. Passing 10,000 feet the dry and wet temps go together at -15C so at this altitude the air is supersaturated 100%Relative humidity and clouds and contrails will form. This is the cloud base.

At 20,000 feet as the ET lifts us higher the dry bulb temp is -25 but the wet bulb is only -20 so contrails or clouds will form. This is the cloud tops.

At 21,000 the dry and wet bulb temps are separate so we are in clear air. No Cloud no contrail.

At 22,000 feet wet and dry bulbs are together at -28C and so clouds and contrails will form.

At 23,000 feet wet and dry bulbs are separated again -30C and -33C so no clouds and contrails form.

At 35,000 feet the air is very cold -60C, but it’s also very dry, so if the relative humidity is 100% cirrus clouds will form, gently is this thin (less dense) rarefied atmosphere.

Along comes the early morning traffic contrails will form and last all day. Its not just one, perhaps 50, or 500 aircraft appreciate the 2,000 cross the Atlantic per day either over Cornwall, Wales or Scotland.

If you live in and around Daventry this is what is going over your head every day, maybe 800 per day going to Northern England and Scotland and another 2000 crossing the Atlantic.

Hope this helps, Im grateful for the opportunity some bloke to clear up these “misconceptions”.

[Taurean]

[[QUOTE]QUOTE=Taurean;206390]I'm inclined to support the theory that tptb are trying to minimise certain incoming solar rays.
Yes, its called Geo Engineering.


Targeted on humanity to activate the DNA.
I don’t think so…


Why would they put toxic stuff in the atmosphere that would equally affect them ?

Indeed why would they, you answer your own question.


I was in the Algarve in Portugal last week and it was interesting to see them start spraying a couple of miles offshore, only during the day and only on the blue sky days.

The word F*** is banned on this forum, they should do the same with "spraying"

No this is not happening seriously it's not. Two seconds ago you made a statement;

“Why would they put toxic stuff in the atmosphere that would equally effect them”.

Good sensible point. Then you go and spoil it and talk about spraying, you’ve just said it’s crazy because it would effect them as well;

What I was trying to say was maybe the objective is to reflect incoming Solar rays rather than poison us.

and a blue sky day meaning a cloudless day.

[Fred259]

Taurean, indeed that is precisely what’s happening. The fundamental problem is that chemtrails means too many that the government are poisoning the people from the skies.

These trails would not form at all if aircraft came down and operated around the 6,000m or 20,000ft level.

The problem with that is that fuel consumption would increase; the price of a ticket would increase, and consumers want to fly around Europe for 2/6d. It’s the old problem yes they care about the enviroment but as long as they don’t have to pay for it.

I do understand this point of view. For example we are taxed in the UK for climate change levy. What happens with this money where does it go? So it’s understandable

[Some Bloke]

Fred 259, you misquoted me,I never said "these aircraft were feet away", I said that the trails were feet apart. And as I stated I SAW the (single) jet aircraft leave these trails that why I took the photo, and why I posted it as there are plenty of grid pattern photos out there, but I've not seen this before. And its easy to see the planes, 5 miles isn't far in clear air.

[Fred259]

Lol… Ive just come from your fabulous post about the space plane and watched it travel from Cape Town to just north of Darwin in around 12 minutes or so. It’s incredible I sat down and before Id finished my coffee it was over Darwin!

So the secret space plane is 200 miles up, and moving at 16,462kts and can this been from the earth ?….I reckon yes, you would need to know where to look, it would need to be clear, and at night and assuming you had a good horizon I think it’s possible to spot it for around 15-25 seconds max. After that it would be over the horizon.

SB.. No one in chemtrailing, whatever you saw is no different than what has come out of the back of an engine for the last seventy years.

[blufire]

Fred259,

I would like to ask you a question and I do not ask this disrespectfully.

I’m truly trying to figure out a little more of who you are, especially since you are a prolific poster here on Project Avalon.

What fringe or “conspiracy theory” topics that the vast majority of us post about, debate and believe here on this forum do you accept as truth?

Don’t ask “Like what”?

I would like to hear some of your personal beliefs or at least other topics that you are almost certain are truths since you are a very intense researcher.

I realize this is off topic . . . but it would certainly help me frame a better understanding of who you are and then a more sound foundation from which to build when it comes to your posts and information.

[silvervioletrubie]

I am more concerned about what is being applied to us through our atmosphere that we CANNOT see.... A chem trail is not necessary to disperse chemical agents in our atmosphere, if I was applying secretive agents..... I would choose invisible ones.

[seehas]

another important fact is that they not only use airplanes to create these pattern like structures, there are many sightings on video that clearly show orb like vehicles spraying and also morphing into airplane like hollograpic projections from time to time.

this agenda goes into higher ranks in black projects as it seems

[Fred259]

another important fact is that they not only use airplanes to create these pattern like structures, there are many sightings on video that clearly show orb like vehicles spraying and also morphing into airplane like hollograpic projections from time to time.

this agenda goes into higher ranks in black projects as it seems

Interesting seehas, do you have any of these videos or documents, can you share them perhaps..

[Fred259]

[QUOTE=blufire;206743][FONT="Arial"]Fred259,

I would like to ask you a question and I do not ask this disrespectfully.
I’m truly trying to figure out a little more of who you are, especially since you are a prolific poster here on Project Avalon.
What fringe or “conspiracy theory” topics that the vast majority of us post about, debate and believe here on this forum do you accept as truth?

Hello Bluefire, Sure it’s a pleasure. I have to say that I don’t really do conspiracy theory. Like you I agree we live in a crazy world and so when problems arise I tend to look at them and if I’m interested in that problem and have knowledge of the subject I will concentrate on that. For example, I have no knowledge of biochemistry, and so I don’t feel that I am able to comment on the H1N1 virus. I do understand it’s real and the implications and would support others investigating the problem. I would say my knowledge is at the other end of science, physics and engineering.


[QUOTE]I would like to hear some of your personal beliefs or at least other topics that you are almost certain are truths since you are a very intense researcher.

Im very interested in history, and where we come from but essentially working in the aviation industry I guess I think it was around seven days after the events in NYC in September 2001 that we knew something wasn’t right. Three days after that we all lost our jobs when the industry nose dived and around four months later with no job we were 48hrs from loosing our home. Later I joined up with some folks in the US and Canada and around thirty of us started looking at September 11 trying to see where it all fitted in.

Nothing adds up on the aviation side of 9/11, and so we started looking elsewhere, and my good friend in Wisconsin who worked previously with NWA had contacts in the Senior Executive Service, who control a rogue faction of the US Government. The problem goes back to the Carter years 1975 and so subversion of the US government was complete years ago.

Precisely the same has occurred in the UK, we lost any real form of democracy when Prime Minister Thatcher was unseated by the bankers and so today the UK government is controlled by Fabian Marxists who infiltrated the Labour party. Real power in the UK is controlled by Julia Middleton and her Marxist Common Purpose organisation,

October 2011 was the date (I think it was the 12th) that German, British, Swiss and US bankers were due in court in New York following at least an eleven year (that’s what we know it’s probably longer) investigation by the FBI and IRS into monstrous crimes committed by these criminals. All the documents and evidence was contained in buildings one, two four and seven and so rather than fire the office, and destroy the evidence they took out the buildings instead. As the FBI chief said “We lost the lot”

A direct hit on the office of US naval intelligence at the Pentagon also destroyed evidence and killed key USN investigators who were investigating the theft of an estimated 110-240,000 tons of gold stolen and facilitated by Cantor Fitzgerald from offices within the wtc.

Therefore a month before the court date a coup d’état took place in the Capital and New York city organised out of London, and executed out of Canada with subverted organisations including key individuals within the SES and Femme Comp Inc Chattily Virginia, who control the US military command and control systems.


General Henry Shelton was perhaps the only person who could have stopped this, however the criminals who were aware of this decided and arranged a meeting for him in Europe. By the time his plane landed in Europe the attempt to overthrow the democratically elected government of the United States had happened.

A group of very powerful ideologically subverted women some of whom are feminist’s extremists are behind much of this activity both in Washington and London and this was the reason for the creation of Feme Comp Inc, a defence contractor (Feme is French for female) the French connection being French Canada. The women of course are only a front for another group.

Hundreds of millions of dollars are spent each year by the banking and military industrial complex in Britain and the US preventing you and me finding the truth. As Bill said in his Inelia interview “Why is it they go to such extraordinary lengths to conceal the truth”, and “What is it they don’t want us to know”


I realize this is off topic . . . but it would certainly help me frame a better understanding of who you are and then a more sound foundation from which to build when it comes to your posts and information.

Lol What do you want me to do share with you BS or share my knowledge. I have already mentioned I have no expertise in computing or farming, medicine, and many other subjects. If its UFO’s you want to know about, I don’t know speak with Bill.

I’m interested in what Monsanto are doing with the seed liability contracts for farmers, but the farmers in the mid west will know more about than me.

I think perhaps the problem is you didn’t see me posting on the Charles thread. This is because I didn’t agree with what Charles was proposing.

[seehas]

another important fact is that they not only use airplanes to create these pattern like structures, there are many sightings on video that clearly show orb like vehicles spraying and also morphing into airplane like hollograpic projections from time to time.

this agenda goes into higher ranks in black projects as it seems

Interesting seehas, do you have any of these videos or documents, can you share them perhaps..

hej fred,

there are quite many on youtube ... i try to catch some for you here


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlxRtNoKwek


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-vLtKDajbI


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhZryWTzLuo

to me this is pretty similar to the 911 fake plane holographic theorie and video analyzis where u can see a complete wing missing or some strange structures on these planes, there are so many videos out there about it.

http://www.orbwar.com/holographic-jet-orb-chemsprayer.htm

cheers

[iceni tribe]

here is the full report on chemtrails oooops sorry geoengineering.


http://2020science.org/2009/09/01/geoengineering-the-climate-a-clear-perspective-from-the-royal-society/

on that link you can find this
Download the full report: Geoengineering the climate: science, governance and uncertainty [PDF, 4756 kb]

[passiglight]

Hey fred,or asset,which ever it is !!!!!!!!!!!!

QUOTE....................." I have to say that I don’t really do conspiracy theory."

erm excuse me for laughing,,,,,,,,but what are you doing here,,,,,,,,,????????


OH right i see................quote."Nothing adds up on the aviation side of 9/11,"................sounds like a bit of conspiracy when nothing adds up ........lol

So when are you gonna tell the forum why you really are here, what you are doing etc,,,,,,,

OH right i see..........quote...."I would say my knowledge is at the other end of science, physics and engineering."............meanin what exactly fred ?????

and this business about charles......................quote.........."I think perhaps the problem is you didn’t see me posting on the Charles thread. This is because I didn’t agree with what Charles was proposing."

Surely you are not saying you didn't post on the charles thread are you ?????

because the evidence points otherwise,,,,and did you not make comments visa charles as quoted by me earlier in this thread,,,,,,,,,come on fred..you can do better than that,,,,,,,i'm sure,,,old bean







[QUOTE=blufire;206743][FONT="Arial"]Fred259,

I would like to ask you a question and I do not ask this disrespectfully.
I’m truly trying to figure out a little more of who you are, especially since you are a prolific poster here on Project Avalon.
What fringe or “conspiracy theory” topics that the vast majority of us post about, debate and believe here on this forum do you accept as truth?

Hello Bluefire, Sure it’s a pleasure. I have to say that I don’t really do conspiracy theory. Like you I agree we live in a crazy world and so when problems arise I tend to look at them and if I’m interested in that problem and have knowledge of the subject I will concentrate on that. For example, I have no knowledge of biochemistry, and so I don’t feel that I am able to comment on the H1N1 virus. I do understand it’s real and the implications and would support others investigating the problem. I would say my knowledge is at the other end of science, physics and engineering.


[QUOTE]I would like to hear some of your personal beliefs or at least other topics that you are almost certain are truths since you are a very intense researcher.

Im very interested in history, and where we come from but essentially working in the aviation industry I guess I think it was around seven days after the events in NYC in September 2001 that we knew something wasn’t right. Three days after that we all lost our jobs when the industry nose dived and around four months later with no job we were 48hrs from loosing our home. Later I joined up with some folks in the US and Canada and around thirty of us started looking at September 11 trying to see where it all fitted in.

Nothing adds up on the aviation side of 9/11, and so we started looking elsewhere, and my good friend in Wisconsin who worked previously with NWA had contacts in the Senior Executive Service, who control a rogue faction of the US Government. The problem goes back to the Carter years 1975 and so subversion of the US government was complete years ago.

Precisely the same has occurred in the UK, we lost any real form of democracy when Prime Minister Thatcher was unseated by the bankers and so today the UK government is controlled by Fabian Marxists who infiltrated the Labour party. Real power in the UK is controlled by Julia Middleton and her Marxist Common Purpose organisation,

October 2011 was the date (I think it was the 12th) that German, British, Swiss and US bankers were due in court in New York following at least an eleven year (that’s what we know it’s probably longer) investigation by the FBI and IRS into monstrous crimes committed by these criminals. All the documents and evidence was contained in buildings one, two four and seven and so rather than fire the office, and destroy the evidence they took out the buildings instead. As the FBI chief said “We lost the lot”

A direct hit on the office of US naval intelligence at the Pentagon also destroyed evidence and killed key USN investigators who were investigating the theft of an estimated 110-240,000 tons of gold stolen and facilitated by Cantor Fitzgerald from offices within the wtc.

Therefore a month before the court date a coup d’état took place in the Capital and New York city organised out of London, and executed out of Canada with subverted organisations including key individuals within the SES and Femme Comp Inc Chattily Virginia, who control the US military command and control systems.


General Henry Shelton was perhaps the only person who could have stopped this, however the criminals who were aware of this decided and arranged a meeting for him in Europe. By the time his plane landed in Europe the attempt to overthrow the democratically elected government of the United States had happened.

A group of very powerful ideologically subverted women some of whom are feminist’s extremists are behind much of this activity both in Washington and London and this was the reason for the creation of Feme Comp Inc, a defence contractor (Feme is French for female) the French connection being French Canada. The women of course are only a front for another group.

Hundreds of millions of dollars are spent each year by the banking and military industrial complex in Britain and the US preventing you and me finding the truth. As Bill said in his Inelia interview “Why is it they go to such extraordinary lengths to conceal the truth”, and “What is it they don’t want us to know”


I realize this is off topic . . . but it would certainly help me frame a better understanding of who you are and then a more sound foundation from which to build when it comes to your posts and information.

Lol What do you want me to do share with you BS or share my knowledge. I have already mentioned I have no expertise in computing or farming, medicine, and many other subjects. If its UFO’s you want to know about, I don’t know speak with Bill.

I’m interested in what Monsanto are doing with the seed liability contracts for farmers, but the farmers in the mid west will know more about than me.

I think perhaps the problem is you didn’t see me posting on the Charles thread. This is because I didn’t agree with what Charles was proposing.

[Fred259]

What’s you point Passinglight,, what are you trying to say?

[Dennis Jonathan]

Passlight, lighten up bro.

If we label everyone who disagrees with us "federal asset" we are no better that MSM labeling every alternative idea "conspiracy theorist"

It's a very slippery slope.

What's next, everyone who agrees there are Chemtrails, but thinks it's a corporate vs federal plot is an asset?

You think it's the NSA? It's the CIA, you must be an asset!

:P

Let's just attack the message, not the messenger please :).

Back on topic:

There has been ample evidence in thus thread that there are more than just contrails in our skies.

As always, the truth is buried and is ever elusive, but a strong case has been presented. To ignore it is just being stubborn at this point.

[Some Bloke]

Has anyone seen this ? http://info-wars.org/2011/01/25/rte-lord-monckton-%E2%80%93-take-note-admitted-chemtrailing-carried-out-by-british-military-on-the-public/

[Leon]

As long as I can remember I have been a plane watcher... but these trails were never the way they are now.....

Why would they spray politicians.... it's been proven that there will be sacrifices... a 100 a 1000 a million it's not important to reach the final goal...

People need to open their eyes... there will always be those who believe and trust the governments...

As a politician once said the peoples are the chickens, and he has to feed them....

[avid]

Have I missed any link to Dutchsinse??? His forecasting (albeit non-scientific and questioning) is fantastic.
http://www.youtube.com/user/dutchsinse#p/u/3/9TzGyQ7SEzAnable terminology) (http://www.youtube.com/user/dutchsinse#p/u/3/9TzGyQ7SEzA)

There are just too many 'coincidences' and the New Madrid area is being hammered.

All the prophesies for 11/5/11 or 21-25th May are looming. Let us pray that the vile psychopaths who press all buttons come to their senses asap and stop this horrendous 'unnatural disaster' Love to all - Avid

[Leon]

A good idea would be to put picture's of normal vapour trails online!

Many say these aircraft carry pod's, I am not so sure about this...

A friend who was a politician did mention to me that they don't need pod's to carry & distribute the chemicals... a development was made where it could be added to the aviation fuel. this mean's the pilots and those in the planes don't have any idea of what is happening.

get a list of who produces aviation fuel, then see where it's distributed, and you can soon figure out which countries are participating in this... perhaps knowingly perhaps not! but it will soon be clear from the different vapour trails left by the different fuel mixtures... 1+1=2...

[nomadguy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ucUfw7u_kU&feature=player_embedded

[East Sun]

Are these chemtrails also seen over China, Russia and the North and South poles?
How is it possible that politicians do not know what all this is all about.

Don't all kinds of aircraft have to have clearance before flying over other territories?

If this is global the authority to do this must be by a global force. OK, let's see, who are the global forces on our Earth? Yeah, that's where to look. And then, what would they want, that is the question. Let's put our heads together. Hmmmm.

[Fred259]

[QUOTE=East Sun;214851]

A good post if I may say so East Sun.


Are these chemtrails also seen over China, Russia and the North and South poles?
No. It’s a western problem.

How is it possible that politicians do not know what all this is all about.
It’s a complete Hoax. Why would the politicians get involved in this.

Don't all kinds of aircraft have to have clearance before flying over other territories?
Absolutely. It’s called a flight plan. Understand though its a bit more than just a plan.

If this is global the authority to do this must be by a global force.
Now you are talking. Indeed it must.

OK, let's see, who are the global forces on our Earth?
Indeed East Sun…. who would you have in mind perhaps?

Yeah, that's where to look.
Now you are making me laugh….

And then, what would they want, that is the question.
We know what they want, and if we don’t we are many and are capable of finding out.

Let's put our heads together.
Good East Sun, it’s class I have to say.

Hmmmm.


What is happening here IMHO is an attempt to destroy the truth movement. Just feed them a load of nonsense and let them worry about it. Which is precisely what’s happening.

Bill told us after the Charles interview that the truth movement / alternative media had become a problem so they continue to pump out this rubbish to divide the movement and make us all look like idiots.

Vladimir Lenin created the phrase “Usefull idiots” That is all we have become usefull idiots should you believe in all this nonsense. It has a purpose.

This is subversion and Psy ops lies and deception. It’s a control method.

It’s not the government who are putting out these lies, it’s the ptb or rather New World Order.

Eventually the usefull idiot’s rise through society and the whole country is slowly destroyed.

The real government remains largely the same; however the usefull idiots have now infiltrated and subverted the real government. Big shots like Obama and Mrs Clinton. Powerful shots like Kristine Marsey who controls the Senior Executive Service. Marsey created the SES to bring down the real and loyal American government. Now you know what 9/11 was all about.

It’s precisely the same in the United Kingdom. Marsey’s bosom pal in London Julia Middleton is the CEO of Common Purpose, a repugnant Fabian Marxist so called charity.

Miriam Clegg wife of the deputy prime minister and Cherrie Blair wife of the former prime minister are also closely involved. Common Purpose has infiltrated the SES facilitated by Marsey. It’s meant to happen its part of the plan. It may not have escaped your attention that with the exception of Barrack Obama, every name mentioned above is a woman. Another problem for another thread.

Yuri Bezmanov the former KGB agent who defected to the west talks about Subversion and how its used to destroy a nation state. When he eventually arrived in Los Angeles he explained at various campus lecturers the methods used by the former KGB, that are currently being used on civilised society by these ptb New World Order scoundrels.

In 1985, he considered then that America was broken, using the words “It’s been remarkably successful” Do remember however he defected to the US, loosing his family in the process, a brave man you could say.

The PTB are using every opportunity to enslave mankind, and where they do we continue to expose them. This is what is happening here. They have created a problem where no problem exists.

So called Chemtrails and perhaps “others” have been created to destroy those groups and organisations who seek to expose the ptb. We need to pick them off one at a time. This is what I was doing with Icecold before he went AWOL.

These are the facts. This is the truth, many of you will identify with this truth, and its also in part counter subversion letting the ptb know we know their ways. The New World Order are fighting like ferrets in a sack. We continue to expose them daily.

Here are the facts.


If you are younger than 35 you just need to accept this as truth, the “oldies” will confirm it so.

During the 1960 and 1970s and into the 1980s aircraft crossing the Atlantic, or perhaps coast to coast flights, but certainly overseas flights had four engines. These engines produced around 25,000 lbs trust each.

During this period of time the world experienced the OPEC crisis, Yon Kippur War and various other world events. Oil started to become a premium.

Engine manufacturers responded to world events by producing more fuel efficient engines. As part of this initiative which obviously included research and development the power output per unit engine increased.

In the 1970s Rolls Royce brought out the RB-211 engine designed for the B747 at 40,000lbs thrust. Over the next decade they increased the output to 60,000lbs which is where it is today.

In the 1980 Boeing developed two mid range aircraft the B757 and B767. These aircraft have two engines only at around 60,000lbs thrust.

A change in the law allowing these aircraft to fly over water for more than 120 minutes from land ETOPS. (Extended twin operations) and this came about around the mid 1980s to early 1990s.

These days’ twins have become the norm; it’s a natural progression.

In the mid 1990s Boeing produced the B777, which is slightly smaller than the B747, but has similar range and passenger configuration. The B777 is powered almost exclusively by General Electric GE who produced a monster of an engine the GE-115, 115,000 lbs of thrust. In development GE have tested this engine to 128,000lbs of trust, five times more power than the engines on aircraft we remember from our childhood.

In the mid 1990s Rolls Royce produced the Trent 900 engine designed for the Airbus A380, and the Trent 1000 engine for the new B787 dream liner. Both engines are around 80,000lbs.

Engine power output has therefore increased four/five fold over our lifetime. Therefore given power has increased the amount of water vapor can only increase, leading to larger jet trails. Larger is perhaps an understatement.

Air travel has also increased, requiring new airports and runways. In the UK where farmland previously existed a new airport for London was created at Stanstead. Now they talk about a second runway as this airport reaches saturation. An additional runway was built at Manchester where a single runway existed previously. These changes were required to meet demand from the travelling public, for both business and lifestyle.

Precisely the same growth has occurred in the United States following the de regulation of the skies under President Regan’s executive order.

New runways can be build, however it’s impossible to build new airspace. Therefore to meet this explosive increase in travel, more aircraft had to be fitted into the existing airspace. This was achieved by reduced separation, with technology providing the safety cushion.

A five fold increase in power output coupled with increased traffic occupying the same airspace has produced these changes in out skies.

These changes have been used by those who seek to control us. This deception is very clever, it doesn’t really involve the public at large they are oblivious to what is going on. Rather I would suggest it’s aimed at destroying alternative thinkers. The ptb are using these changes that have occurred over the last thirty years to advantage..

They control the mainstream media. They don’t however control the truth movement, alternative thinkers or the alternative media and so these people are the real threat.

They destroy nations by mass immigration and illegal alien’s. They use every available method to seek control and destroy mankind. They project power and authority, and yes they are powerful, but they are not as powerful as they would like us to think.


They will never control mankind. Goodness and the truth will always prevail.

Some think I’m a government spy, and say I’m not a truther or clear thinker or not like you. Troll they say. It makes me chuckle. Government Spy? Yes indeed I spy on those who seek to destroy mankind, and those who seek to overthrow the democratically elected Government. The subversives and Marxists are being exposed and removed, and the New World Order will fail in the fullness of time.

They told you that Pan Am 103 or the Lockerbie Air Disaster as its better known was caused by a Libyan who placed a bomb on an aircraft.

Not True.

They lied to you. It was an accident. (It’s also another thread) Are you reading this Andrew?


7340

MI6 "Spook" Andrew Fulton, exposed for covering up Lockerbie Lies.


The cover up by “MI6 spooks” was led by this man Andrew Fulton, who tricked the public into thinking he was a visiting professor of law at Glasgow University Scotland. He’s not a professor of law he’s an MI6 spook, exposed by “the gang”. He infiltrated the legal profession in order to subvert the due process of law and jail an innocent man as the patsy.

The truth always comes to the surface, and now the Libyan is a free man.

That’s all water under the bridge, but the unfortunate problem with bridges is you can’t stop the water from flowing underneath them and now Andrew Fulton the “exposed former MI6 spook” is back again, this time appointed by Prime Minister David Cameron as Chairman of the Conservative Party. Spooks controlling the Conservative Party, the ptb controlling the Conservative Party whatever will they think of next?

Andrew, it's time to put your feet up, play lots of golf, relax and enjoy a Balvenie.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Fulton_(Party_chairman)

http://glasgowunihumanrights.blogspot.com/2010/02/ex-mi6-spy-and-tory-chairman-andrew.html

[Leon]

They will never control mankind. Goodness and the truth will always prevail.

I hope so, because most people out there absorb what is on the box like a sponge and believe it like it's gospel.....

lets hope this changes and soon...