Integrity

[Bill Ryan]

------

Dear All:

The best definition of integrity I ever heard is when one's beliefs, actions and statements are all in alignment.

With integrity, there is no two-facedness, no camouflaged position, no variance of view depending on the circumstances or who one is with.

Or what forum one posts on.

The criterion we use with all members, no matter how longstanding, is that if we had known [ --- insert something new that emerges about this person here --- ] when we'd welcomed them in the first place, we would not have accepted their application, then we may ask them to leave.

Clearly their membership was a mistake - on our part. Remember: this is not a public place. It's a private, invitation-only forum. This is what guarantees and safeguards its very high quality.

As Sepia said here:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?15984-Important-Update-on-Atticus&p=171274&viewfull=1#post171274



Some of the Members who posted here I wouldn't invite into my house.

(And do read her whole post. (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?15984-Important-Update-on-Atticus&p=171274&viewfull=1#post171274))

This is the point. If there's a member here who I would not literally invite into my own home for an interesting chat (with other members who are also invited into my own home), then they may be asked to leave.

There's a very small number of members we've been applying this to, and we'll continue to do so. Anyone is free and welcome to say anything they want to anywhere on the internet - but not here.

In Sepia's words, this is my house, and you are all guests, and I value and honor everyone here as long as your integrity is in. If it is breached, I will ask you to leave, and I will make that call myself.

It's not about differing views or free speech. I have many views that differ from those of my closest friends, and we have animated debates about all kinds of things - from which we all learn.

It's about principles, and respect, and positive agendas, and how we communicate, and whether we're being the change we want to see in the world.

In connection with this, there's a kind of 'separation' happening. I can see it all around. I even talked about this with Kerry two years ago, and since then it has gradually intensified and amplified. You can see it in the YouTube comments on any alternative video you care to pick at random.

Longstanding friends are parting company. Relationships are ending. New alliances are forming. Lines are being drawn. I do not understand all this yet. But it's clearly happening.

This does not portend any kind of big, destructive conflict. But I see it as more of a separation of 'vibration' (dare I say the word!) - natural re-clusterings and new alliances of people who see things in similar, mutually agreed ways because other perceptions are (or may be) denied them.

It's fascinating to me that some people are simply not able to understand what I say - and I'm quite a good communicator! - and the other person may be very analytically intelligent. Yet the barrier is still there.

Something else is going on here - more to do with spiritual 'vibe' rather than intellectual analysis or grasp of raw information.

I'd like to discuss this more later, because I think it's both subtle and important. But for the moment, this is an important post. I do welcome all views and perspectives.

[Bill Ryan]

Mod-edit: Due to a little glitch in the system, Bill's post showed up twice. I have removed the second copy. The "Thanks" for this post were for that second copy, and apply to Bill's Post #1 above just as if they had been placed there instead. -Paul.

[Yoda]

------

This does not portend any kind of big, destructive conflict. But I see it as more of a separation of 'vibration' (dare I say the word!) - natural re-clusterings and new alliances of people who see things in similar, mutually agreed ways because other perceptions are (or may be) denied them.

It's fascinating to me that some people are simply not able to understand what I say - and I'm quite a good communicator! - and the other person may be very analytically intelligent. Yet the barrier is still there.

Something else is going on here - more to do with spiritual 'vibe' rather than intellectual analysis or grasp of raw information.

I'd like to discuss this more later, because I think it's both subtle and important. But for the moment, this is an important post. I do welcome all views and perspectives.

In some circles, it's referred to, as, Law of Attraction. We seem to leave some people at their comfort zone, and we gravitate towards like-minded people, events or places.

Pierre

[SKAWF]

i agree with everything you've just wrote.

there's what you say, and the way you say it.

there is a way of communicating where everyone fits together,
even though we have a vast spectrum of differing views.
words in themselves, are not a problem,
its when those words are intended to be an attack,
or to enforce your views on someone else,
or to use as a deliberate distraction on someone.

i think there's a point where integrity crosses over into principles.
i am the way i am, even when there's no one else around.
there are certain standards i wont drop below,
not because of how i might be percieved,
but because it has an effect on ME.

but also, integrity is whether you can stay true to yourself,
even in the midst of great adversity.
being prepared to actually get up off your arse,
and STAND UP, to respond when the need arises.

maybe this IS the start of a vibrational seperation.

it will occur inside the individual first,
then they will make it an outside reality

steve

[Carmody]

I deal with that vibe all the time, Bill. I've played with it's considerations in the given in situ groups and individuals, in multiple ways and places.

The science of it may come down to the mundane level (in some views)as the recent study on brain function and organization, regarding the wiring and capacity for empathy. I would definitely not say that is the sole unchanging aspect (that kind of thinking is endemic to the problem!) but it maybe can show some of the physical evidence in some cases.

[alemao]

Bill, I've learned a lot about integrity from you. Every post of yours is a new lesson and I, and the people around me, thank you for that.

[conk]

I am honored to be a guest in your 'house'. Now be a good host and bring us a beer. ;)

[ViralSpiral]

Integrity comes from practice. It is as a result of preparation and choice. A differing opinion does not require bashing with a baton of disrespect.
When I completed my application form, INTEGRITY was high on my priority list. I do find it here.
There will always be provocateurs, and that too is allowed, when there is something to gain/learn however, not at someone else's expense due to their perceived naivety, or possible ignorance.
This "separation" may be part of that choice.....

Thank you

[crosby]

i try very hard to never be offensive to anyone's point of view unless it is a direct attack upon 'not what is being discussed in the thread, but the person who posted the thread, their ideals, etc.' i was actually challenged on several occasions and either didn't comment further, or one-upped the person, so to speak, not in an aggressive manner, but one that would allow them to perhaps view their own contention.

it is very important that we all show respect for everyone's opinions on the subject matter at hand. keeping a cool head in the face of controversy is a necessary attribute and function in life and will help us in the future when the negative vibes become almost intolerable due to circumstances beyond our control.

so with all of this being said, i will pay more attention to my own slips and focus on raising avalon's light vibrations higher. thank you Bill, i'm sure many of us will pay heed to your post here and anything that you may add in future.
warmest regards, corson

[Nortreb]

------ The best definition of integrity I ever heard is when one's beliefs, actions and statements are all in alignment.

Hi Bill,
I agree totally with the above quote. I learned this principle over 30 years ago during my former life as a professional football player.

Thanks so much for this quote.

Nortreb

[Ahkenaten]

The word integrity comes from no doubt a Latinate root, thus it is similar to the word integration. Personal integrity is something that cannot be created, or should I say it cannot be faked.....a person is either an integrated personality or they are not, of course there are degrees of integration. What is interesting is when a person seems to come from extreme positions, usually - unless one is merely role-playing or nuts, that indicates there is an integration or integrity issue, under the principle that mutually exclusive positions usually cannot be occupied simultaneously.

It is all about character finally. Not to say that sometimes unpleasant, difficult subjects or situations do not come up, because they do. And mistakes are made.

In my personal opinion, the specific issue of deliberate misleading, deliberate falsehoods, in other words - the intention to do harm, is something that we should all guard against. If someone has genuine good intentions, they should not mind being corrected by others with the same intentions, and the corrections that are given should be primarily for the purpose of moving the whole group forward, not merely smacking someone for an error, weakness, or flaw.

[Siberia9]

Well said Bill. The battle lines are being drawn in strange ways, not just the black hats against the white hats, its almost as if we are suposed to be in our specific small groups. Even the the ones who have showed no interest in becoming awakend are hardening their position. I have some ideas on the purpose of this but I will save it for later. BTW I dont envy you, you have a tough job keeping these kids in line here, and I also think you are doing a good job.;)

[Anna]

Ha Bill,

Thank you for a wake up call.
Since I met first your (and Kerry's) work and later you personally, I have welcomed you in my life as a friend.
I treat your forum also as a friend but cannot read all posts.
I have favourites and those I would welcome into my house.

hug from Anna

[edina]

------

Dear All:

The best definition of integrity I ever heard is when one's beliefs, actions and statements are all in alignment.


Bill thanks for posting this. Your definition here is a good one.

I've also heard integrity simply described as walking your talk, or living by the principles you say you stand for/value.

In my heart, I esteem Sepia as a fountain of kind, generous wisdom. Thank you for sharing her insight here.

I remember when she wrote about how we are in Bill's home. I appreciated it then, and I do now. I felt resonant with the analogy.

One thing that occurs to me is that very often people do not realise that they are behaving in a way that is inconsistent with a community's shared values, of trust, respect, and considerate behavior toward one another.

And very often, no one around them can help them see these things. This is where I've seen our conversations fall apart the quickest. I feel that when we see this inconsiderate behavior the rest of the guests present at the party may want to practice their higher virtues, like patience, self-control, loving kindness, and so on.

Then simply contact a Mod to address the issue, or redirect the energy in a more positive constructive direction.

The really ugly arguments and behaviors seem to happen when a person, or more, go around trying to correct each other.

I'd like to see other people's ideas about how to handle our selves when these heated moments arise. As they often do, because so many people in the Avalon community are passionate, and care about the world around us.

I have found that it is helpful to me to become very clear on what I stand for, and then to examine my behavior on a regular consistent basis. In times of stress, perhaps moment by moment, like a witness to myself, or an objective observer, to ensure I am measuring up to my own highest standard of inner and outer behavior.

I guess this might be called "Self-Governing"?

Also, a thief can be in integrity to his thief values, and he is still in integrity with himself. Something to consider....

This is where the private party rules apply.

Most reasonable mature people do prefer to treat each other with courtesy and respect. This is a stand I whole-heartedly support.

[The One]

Well said

Have the courage to say no. Have the courage to face the truth. Do the right thing because it is right. These are the magic keys to living your life with integrity.He who closes his ears to the views of others shows little confidence in the integrity of his own views.I would always encourage people of any age not to be so quick to follow other people's truths but to search and follow your own moral code.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[manny]

Some of the Members who posted here I wouldn't invite into my house posted by sepia.

i would like to say and this is not a attact on Sepia.
for one who is spiritually advanced and awakened.
has your ego not taken over with this statement.

I am on my second strike,third and i,m out.
for what.
being offensive to Charles.
being rude.
.
for saying what i felt at that time.and i was wrong.
i have seen people removed for less things.

now why was i not removed?

because someone saw something in me that was good,apart from my opinion at that time.

and i was taught,and i learned and i am still learning.
point is that people make mistakes,people learn from other peoples mistakes.
sometimes the unenlightened may teach the enlightened a thing or two,and vice versa.

regarding Charles whatever you may think ,it was a interesting ride.
he brought many new members to avalon,and many more watching.

sometimes a person may not get it straight away.
but be patient ,their veiw may change or it may change yours.

opinions count as if everyone was the same ,well it would be a boring world.

so imo i would invite evey member of this forum into my home.
and boy would i learn a lot ,but i may even teach a little.
is that not what its all about.
life is so versatile.
no one is better than the next person,just on a different rung of the ladder.

[SKAWF]

from what ive seen of your words manny, you've always come across as rock solid with your feet well an truly on the ground.
confident, flexible and humble enough to deal with what your presented with.

you're not offensive.
by that i'm not talking about offending someone,
i mean the difference between being defensive, offensive, and that point in between the two. balanced.
some people are almost predisposed towards being offensive.
they dont even see it. most would say they were just voicing a counter opinion.
without being in any way aware, of 'the way' that they delivered the words.

all is lost when you cant reason with people IMO IME

steve

[Davidallany]

In connection with this, there's a kind of 'separation' happening. I can see it all around. I even talked about this with Kerry two years ago, and since then it has gradually intensified and amplified. You can see it in the YouTube comments on any alternative video you care to pick at random
I haven't seen anything like it before, but it is true. I can't put my finger on it exactly but I believe that it has to do with frequencies or vibrations.

[manny]

In connection with this, there's a kind of 'separation' happening. I can see it all around. I even talked about this with Kerry two years ago, and since then it has gradually intensified and amplified. You can see it in the YouTube comments on any alternative video you care to pick at random
I haven't seen anything like it before, but it is true. I can't put my finger on it exactly but I believe that it has to do with frequencies or vibrations.
i felt the energy when i first came joined avalon.
sometimes it was very strong.
use to get goosebumps ect.
but lately it seems to have diminished.
time to re connect .;)

[manny]

from what ive seen of your words manny, you've always come across as rock solid with your feet well an truly on the ground.
confident, flexible and humble enough to deal with what your presented with.

you're not offensive.
by that i'm not talking about offending someone,
i mean the difference between being defensive, offensive, and that point in between the two. balanced.
some people are almost predisposed towards being offensive.
they dont even see it. most would say they were just voicing a counter opinion.
without being in any way aware, of 'the way' that they delivered the words.

all is lost when you cant reason with people IMO IME

steve
then that person has a different viewpiont to yours.
who is right.
maybe it is not for you to reason with this person.
should you ban him.
maybe someone else can get through.
is he worth it.
you may give up ,but the next person may not.

[buffski]

a


so imo i would invite evey member of this forum into my home.
and boy would i learn a lot ,but i may even teach a little.
is that not what its all about.
life is so versatile.
no one is better than the next person,just on a different rung of the ladder.

Nicely said Manny.

My father used to say 'this is my house...if you dont respect me then you can leave'... and in a way, he was right..because, boy, did we used to have some arguments. But he had this damned habit of not 'hearing' me and seeing my blunt words as seditious. Heated, would be an understatement for what went on.

You see, he cherished his stance so much that when he was wrong, he would be loathed to admit it...and if I protested too emotionally I was shown the door.

No, this is not a public forum, it is private.... we are invited...lest we overstep a mark that at times appears blurred.

Thanks Manny, for your words of embracing softness...you have truly found perspective.

I thank you for the softness of touch behind your message...for to err is human...or is it a hybriddy thingy?

[SKAWF]

IN MANNY'S DIRECTION

a characteristic of truth is, that someone can have the mirror opposite view to you, and you are both right.

have you ever heard the phrase 'i dont like your tone' or 'dont take that tone with me' ?

its a reference to the energy/intention behind, the words.

you can voice the same opinion in many diferent ways.
there's an infinite amount of ways to express one thing.
there are also an infinite amount of things that can be expressed.

why is it it some settle into a sneering belittling posture.
it lowers the tone of the whole place.

sorry if thats a bit abstract.

as for policy decisions.... you must ask the man in charge.

steve

[Hervé]

In connection with this, there's a kind of 'separation' happening. I can see it all around. I even talked about this with Kerry two years ago, and since then it has gradually intensified and amplified. You can see it in the YouTube comments on any alternative video you care to pick at random
I haven't seen anything like it before, but it is true. I can't put my finger on it exactly but I believe that it has to do with frequencies or vibrations.

Thank you for posting this. I've read it somewhere that the "changes" would include a rise in conflicts between groups and friends but having more to do with mind control technologies than anything else. I wish I could get my mouse pointer on the original article.

Thank you Bill for keeping your home open and inviting me in!

[manny]

IN MANNY'S DIRECTION

a characteristic of truth is, that someone can have the mirror opposite view to you, and you are both right.

have you ever heard the phrase 'i dont like your tone' or 'dont take that tone with me' ?

its a reference to the energy/intention behind, the words.

you can voice the same opinion in many diferent ways.
there's an infinite amount of ways to express one thing.
there are also an infinite amount of things that can be expressed.

why is it it some settle into a sneering belittling posture.
it lowers the tone of the whole place.

sorry if thats a bit abstract.

as for policy decisions.... you must ask the man in charge.

steve
we can only be taught of what we have learned and that is the same with expression.
what will be will be.

[norman]

When I can ever get my head around why the "Charles" thing attracted SO many new members I might get a handle on what the hell is going on these days.

So much of what's happened here in the last 4 months is baffling me. Spiritually, right now, I just don't know my arse from my elbow.

I don't think it's something anyone can talk me through either. I just need to let it all settle.

What I thought was up now seems down and what I thought was down now seems up. No wait, up is up again......

[elysian]

I love this place.

As this is like a home in some ways I get what you are saying Bill.

It has been fascinating to follow the evolution of this forum. Reality also gets reflected here it seems. I have recently gone trough separation myself with my partner and I can see it all around me. Its happening everywhere.
Me and my ex-partner still have the up most respect and love for each other. I wish that here on avalon even through separation we keep love and respect for each other, like partners would. We can agree to disagree and move on as best we can.
"The Truth" and "what is" are not exclusive in my opinion.

Lets all treat each other like lovely family members, with tolerance ,love and respect.
<3

[Gone002]

sometimes is good to be shown the line in the sand, this is your house and sometimes we forget that. :o

[Karma Ninja]

I can relate with what Bill calls the 'separation'. I have witnessed it occurring in my life as well. There is a change and an awakening happening in our world today and some of us feel it more strongly than others. Some of us are confused and are still trying to figure it out.

I think we are all aligning ourselves with like minded individuals. The battles that rage on internet forums and in the comment sections on Youtube range from childish to downright hateful. I usually read the comments to have a little chuckle, but sometimes I can only shake my head at the hurtfulness and anger some people harbour. In the end I try to accept that perhaps the hurt these people feel is meant to remind me of the changes I want to make in myself. When I was young, I could do and say some mean things. I carry these negative memories on my shoulder as a constant reminder that people can change...I need to believe that.

In the end we will have chosen a side and decisions will be made. But once we have chosen we will be firm in our beliefs and resolute in our convictions. Let's hope the end result will be peaceful and agreeable to the majority. I am glad to be apart of this 'house' and I want to contribute to making a change..

Peace

[Wiremu2011]

In connection with this, there's a kind of 'separation' happening. I can see it all around. I even talked about this with Kerry two years ago, and since then it has gradually intensified and amplified. You can see it in the YouTube comments on any alternative video you care to pick at random
I haven't seen anything like it before, but it is true. I can't put my finger on it exactly but I believe that it has to do with frequencies or vibrations.

I definitely agree with you David. There's yet a further shift of frequencies and vibrations and it's affecting every part of our existence, to the point of separation/division between even those in these types of communities.

It's like the wheat separating from the chaff so to speak. Either your growing in this new transfomation based on personal LOA or you're missing the boat.

[manny]

Fact is this is Bills house like he said.
He and his stormtroopers ,sorry (mods)yoking.
they are all very tolerant of all persons opinions,even when it does not fit with their own.
so in effect this should reflect on us as a user of the forum to be tolerant of other peoples opinions.
we all have enough trouble in the outside world,
so this forum should be a place of safe haven and comfort for all of our opinions.
if you post a topic and...
whether the the topic stays alive,gets a few responses or sinks like a stone.
does it matter.
its what YOU learn from it.
if you respond to a topic learn from me,don,t be rude.its not nice.
don,t think you are better than anyone else.
you may be evolved in a certain way.
the other person maybe evolved in another way.
one rule we all learn from each other.
then we can,t go wrong.
if we start slandering,being egotistic ect.
then we are on a loser.and we all lose.
if someone is wrong or misgiuded then regiude them.
help them.
it will not only make you feel better but may change someones life.
try it.
check your reply before you post it.
With all good faith..

[DianeKJ]

When I can ever get my head around why the "Charles" thing attracted SO many new members I might get a handle on what the hell is going on these days.

So much of what's happened here in the last 4 months is baffling me. Spiritually, right now, I just don't know my arse from my elbow.

I don't think it's something anyone can talk me through either. I just need to let it all settle.

What I thought was up now seems down and what I thought was down now seems up. No wait, up is up again......

It feels the same to me as well at times. I tend to refer to it in more of an ebb-flow analogy. I've noticed it very strongly over the past few years where the energy is very strong followed by lulls. The best I an gather about it all seems to be like an intense learning period of energy followed by a sort of integration period where you really soak it all up.

Bill I agree about the vibrations thing, lol I know how that word probably rubs you the wrong way, but is seems the most apt. I find that I can no longer deal with certain energy around me and I am much less able to shield myself or just look past it. Because of this shift I tend to avoid certain situations and people. I don't believe this is the best answer, but for now it's the easiest one for me. I believe that it is very important to be out there- shining our light and keeping our vibes "high." So my goal is to learn how to deal with this in a better way :)

Namaste,
Di

[Kosmic Syntropy]

Thank you for sharing Bill. ~ Namast ~

I could not agree more. I usually say "The alignment between one's thoughts, words, and deeds" when I speak of integrity, however, as Eckhart Tolle states: "Beliefs are thoughts".

I look forward to being an active part of this community!

~ K ~

[Strat]

In Sepia's words, this is my house, and you are all guests, and I value and honor everyone here as long as your integrity is in. If it is breached, I will ask you to leave, and I will make that call myself.

This is the way I've always viewed it. I actually kinda look at it as if we are all at the dinner table; you can't have someone raising their voice making it uncomfortable for everyone else. That person would have to leave. It also helps to bring something to the table (and NOT lima beans!!).

I agree with the integrity thing, though, I think it's more of a dualistic personality thing (I'm not arguing semantics here am I?). Forums often bring out latent traits in people; sheepish personalities morphing into loud bullies. That's ok though. If these people bother you, you can use these individuals as tools to help overcome negativity. Through another's ignorance, you can learn to transcend sarcastic, passive aggressiveness, or blatantly insulting posts. It's a process which may be frustrating, but isn't that what higher consciousness is all about? Isn't that what Avalon is all about?

[NxTLvL34]

in·teg·ri·ty/inˈtegritē/Noun
1. The quality of being honest and having strong moral principles; moral uprightness.
2. The state of being whole and undivided: "territorial integrity". 
Wikipedia - Dictionary.com - Answers.com - Merriam-Webster


If I came to your house and and had to fill out an application to come inside, I would ask you to do the same for me. Because I had never joined a forum before, I assumed this was the natural protocol of things.

I did not realize that the "house" I entered and the "host" I trusted would change names. It certainly felt like I was in charles's "house" and since that happened, integrity would be the last word I would choose to describe that.

Do you not realize Bill that you took a lot of people for a ride? People like me who are in dire straits and then i join Avalon where there is talk of a new timeline, a machine you were going to ask questions to, a group of controllers you were going to meet, and the members here participating in what you may decide to bring to the table when you met this group. There was supposed to be another interview with Charles. What has happened to all this plans?

Furthermore, Bill, you have been silent on the whole Charles situation. I have no idea what to make of it all. The beginning of the video when you interviewed Charles was such an inspiration. "look what we did!" ummmmm......... What did we do? Am I missing something? What's up with all the secrecy Bill?

I have seen a lot of people come and go since I have been here and quite a few loose ends as well. Now we have you telling us Inelia is amazing and the interview with her is being built up just like Charles was. And there are documents that Kerry posts showing a much different perspective. The letter she posted in which Bill wrote about Charles states nothing about Aubrey or the machine or Charles dying of cancer. And the reference to St. Germain indicates nowhere that he is Charles's father.

I feel very unsettled by all of this. So if I am being "watched" in your house, fine. My IPad and IPhone are watching me and my XBOX 360 is too. And Big Brother. And my neighbors. And my bank. And the cops. So I'm fine adding Avalon to the list.

I just really had hopes that I had found a house built on INTEGRITY and not hypocrisy.

[Axman]

Bill you have to do what you deem right because that's who you are Right or wrong. Everyone is a critic. so like I say show me how its done don't tell me show me. If it can be done better than show me get a sever find people to interview and start there own forum and show me. Sorry might sound harsh but we really are on individual journeys so if that's what needs to be done Show me sometimes talk is cheap.

Thanks Bill for all you have done to this point. :peace

The Axman

[silvervioletrubie]

I was one of the people who signed up to become a member here, after viewing the Charles material.
I think that fact is irrelevant, this forum has proven to be an excellent place to further my knowledge of MANY subjects.
I am continuing to grow everyday, and use this forum often to explore new ideas and concepts.

What is so great about this place is....... I can see other peoples input to these very sensitive subjects, and perhaps use that information to further my understanding of this world.
For me, that is a complete understatement.

My point is that to maintain a source of information such as Project Avalon, some type of user interaction guideline is clearly necessary.
I cannot think of a better 'yard stick" then Integrity.

Our world is changing rapidly, having access to an information source such as this is.........priceless.
A little integrity seems like a bargain to me......

Peace until we meet again.

[Tangri]

I am honored to be a guest in your 'house'. Now be a good host and bring us a beer. ;)

In Canada; we bring our own beer where we were invited.
Love and Peace

[Muzz]

Please remember that Bill (and Kerry) run around the globe on a shoestring budget filming excellent interviews with very interesting people and then share them with us for free!

Whatever we think has or hasnt happened with controversial topics I believe the intention is pure and for the greater good of all. Avalon is a fantastic collection of people brought together by the hard work of Bill and the mods.

And for all the critics out there...
“It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena; whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, and spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement; and who, at worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.”

Thank you Bill for all your hard work.

[Mike]

Nxtlvl34,

personal responsibility - the ability or authority to act or decide on one's own, without supervision.

"the acceptance of personal responsibility is what seperates the adult from the child. It's the great leap forward into maturity. Responsibility is the hallmark of the fully integrated, fully functioning human being."-Brian Tracy

[Sierra]

Sometimes people here don't do the necessary homework to understand the progression of the Charles events. It is all out there in video, transcript and forum threads. It is A LOT of homework to plow through with the usual endless digressions. Exacerbating the situation was a 2,000 person increase in membership overwhelming the infrastructure and volunteers. At the same time, an appalling lack of administrative integrity behind the scenes played out in venomous political and personal postings filled with he said/she said wars etc.. while the actual duty of moderation with integrity seemed to fall by the wayside. I do know imho Bill was the poster that displayed the most congruence, by far.

Personally after reading and hearing the death toll of those whose interviews and whistle blowing activities were too explicit, I prefer that Bill and Kerry et. al. handle what information shall be shared according to the wishes of the interviewee. Be a little more aware these can be life and death issues for some people. This is not hypocrisy. This care and concern for others vulnerability in the real world demonstrates as you say, "in·teg·ri·ty/inˈtegritē/Noun
1. The quality of being honest and having strong moral principles; moral uprightness."

I for one feel Bill will respond to your email with grace and aplomb covering all points you mention. He does that extremely well, but what a waste of his time I sometimes think as I examine his writing in an effort to understand how his integrity comes through so clearly to me and not to others.

LOTS of people here respect and like Inelia and want to hear what she has to say. I don't like hearing you trash a relationship between two other people here. Please don't do that.

[benevolentcrow]

I look for truth, goodness and beauty, PA has all that and more. I take what I want and leave the rest. I am grateful for the learning experience, thanks to all who contribute truth, goodness and beauty.

I have never looked upon ease and happiness as ends in themselves - such an ethical basis I call more proper for a herd of swine. The ideals which have lighted me on my way and time after time given me new courage to face life cheerfully, have been Truth, Goodness, and Beauty. ~Albert Einstein

[Dennis Jonathan]

Great summation of the times, and the term Bill.

I am in full agreement.

Question:

What prompted you? Is everything OK? Did you find a wolf in a sheep costume recently?

Just curious.

Cheers.

[cloud9]

Bill Ryan thank you so very much for inviting me to your house... mostly I'll keep quiet listening to the conversation, I'm not so interested in let my own opinion known as that is something I already know, I'm interested in others opinion as a way of learning and meanwhile I respect every opinion and those who share.

With all its ups and downs in this forum, this is still the only one I visit and it's hard to keep up. Because of you and Kerry I have this wonderful place that I enjoy very much.
Thank you again.

[Providence]

Much love and respect Bill, much love and respect!
And I know this sounds simple, even trite, but we must all live in peace and mutual respect for each other or our community purpose becomes unfruitful and we gain nothing much of value...

[Deborah (ahamkara)]

Thank you for keeping the Forum civil and honest. It is easier for some of us to post knowing we will not be attacked, humiliated or ridiculed. Humor is always appreciated, but biting sarcasm either shuts people down or invites more of the same. Real listening and communication is then cut off, and it turns into a silly game of one upsmanship....The "vibrational" change Bill remarked on is fascinating - a bit like watching metal filings on glass rearrange themsleves as a magnet is passed underneath! As my personal work intensifies, others are either attracted and come into a sort of resonance, they drift ,or are pushed away by the energy, or they can be provoked to an emotional response - hatred and love at both ends of the continuum. Love and peace to all of you working, learning, sharing and caring. Avalon is a pretty cool forum.

[Flash]

Thank you Bill for receiving me so well as a guest in your house. I was going to write about my views on integrity, then I realised I did not wish to say that much, so integrity required to recognize it.

A few points though:

There's a very small number of members we've been applying this to, and we'll continue to do so. Anyone is free and welcome to say anything they want to anywhere on the internet - but not here.

In Sepia's words, this is my house, and you are all guests, and I value and honor everyone here as long as your integrity is in. If it is breached, I will ask you to leave, and I will make that call myself.

It's not about differing views or free speech. I have many views that differ from those of my closest friends, and we have animated debates about all kinds of things - from which we all learn.

It's about principles, and respect, and positive agendas, and how we communicate, and whether we're being the change we want to see in the world.

I do not personnally let people scream at others, destroy or insult others in my house - they must work at resolving problems or they are out if they keep doing it. So I do understand your point and Sepia's point. I do not let people insult each other in public settings when I lead, for any reason (opinions, ethnies, knowledge, etc). Everyone is otherwise free to express themselves with respect. Therefore, I do respect someone like you Bill who does the same. It is about respect and positive agenda, yes.

I would add something of my own: it is also about tolerance, tolerance of the differences of all kind, tolerance for the others, as long as respect is there. I would say even more, it is about genuine acceptance and love of humans, with all tenderness, respect and acceptance, yet with definite behavioral rules that allows for communication and acceptance/love to flourish.

Thank you for allowing this.

[Isostool]

I Don't see eye to eye with Bill, and Bill is quite aware of this fact, but I don't go around Avalon being a turd; if anything I will speak on my blog, which I see as my personal and relatively private space [but in the sense that it is still public]. Bill knows how I feel and think and I do not keep it secret.

My reasons are my own - perhaps you could call it differences in fundamental philosophy, and I keep it to myself on the most part - as in my opinion of Bill does not necessarily support anyone, any group or anything else's agenda.

Would he and I still be able to sit and have a beer or whatever in his house [or mine] even? Yes. I think so. I understand that being civilised means that we could do so in a peaceful manner and from a common ground that indeed we have, and I think we could have a respectful and interesting conversation.

[And btw, Shiva777 [who was recently asked to leave by Bill personally] definitely had a problem understanding the concept of civilised boundaries - I was friends with him on facebook for about a day til he was so inappropriately rude that I blocked him. Like seriously wtf...]

People get blocked permanently or temporarily for behaving somewhere along the spectrum of turd, but no I don't always agree with those judgement calls [see: SPIRIT WOLF] And I think that it is a healthy thing that people not be afraid to keep on appealing calls that they do not think are correct, and not just stop speaking up because they are afraid of being disenfranchised. It is just about staying out of the turd spectrum while doing so.

Having integrity is about staying in [I]your truth, sometimes at cost.

However, unfortunately, sometimes one man's integrity is another man's turd. And then there comes the question of relative and contingent truth [and integrity], depending on the observer. So what do we do? Just do our best.

[Whitehaze]

Integrity means you hold fast to your personal code of conduct. You hold fast to what you decide is right and wrong.

When you live with integrity, you succeed. You are open and honest with yourself and all others. Your life is uncomplicated and less stressful and things move smoothly.

When you have excelent integrity you have no reason to lie. You can look at yourself in the mirror and see you have nothing to hide.

[Hypothetical]

Thanks for this posting Bill. I totally believe this is vibration based (dare i say ascension based). I've noticed that over the last 2 years I've gone from a normal drone watching TV, into sports, politics, browsing the net, etc to having no interest in any of those things and completely focused on spirit and life purpose. I've surrounded myself with new friends that share similar interests and they too have recently become awaken for lack of better word. Most of my old friends I'm sure think I've fallen off my rocker but that is there issue not mine and I hold no contempt for their lack of interest in my change. Bruce Lipton who I seen last year spoke at length about these changes and how its increasing at a very rapid rate. I will see him again next month at the same show in Toronto and I really look forward to his perspective. He really highlighted how women are definitely are making this vibration change in a much larger scale to us men.

Overcoming the dominance of the Ego is highly important to be in this higher vibration space. I used to to love debating anything or so I thought I did. I really didn't want to debate anything it was my Ego and not really important for me. I suspect the bickering is the Ego's of the unawakened ones fighting to keep us in line because it needs to feel superior and without a battle it becomes weak. Here is a video I saw over a year ago that I found very empowering. The way he describes the Ego and how you can overcome it was very powerful for me. I hope you enjoy it to. There are 2 parts.

Part1 (http://www.youtube.com/user/perceptionisall#p/u/9/3zaimu_Pw1w)
Part2 (http://www.youtube.com/user/perceptionisall#p/u/8/UY-3TDvnWSs)

[jesterking]

I posted this on another thread but feel like it applies..also wanted to point out that the reference to "charles" below has nothing to do with him specifically, you could replace his name with any other. My point being that if you really think about it, SOOO many problems stem from people discussing "things" or people with no regard to the responsibility of truth.

If people were held responsible for the things they said they might think before speaking. Integrity to me is the result of someone who is self-disciplined, they maintain a standard of behavior set by themselves, and hold themselves responsible for their actions. Setting an example for those who get to witness this quality, leaving them almost afraid to behave below that standard. True integrity is powerful and slightly contagious ..oh.. and my "slap the mouth" comment below is figuratively speaking of course..to shock the person "talking trash" the same as a slap to the mouth would but do it with a display of strength and integrity instead of joining in.

Quote= I have a point of view Id like to share. It comes from a "lifestyle" of an underground nature, one that I am no longer affiliated with. The principles however you DO NOT forget, rules of respect that I feel have been lost especially by our youth. I learn from my mistakes and pull the good from the bad, in that way there is no bad, just a medium on its way to a "well done" But its like they say "you can take the boy out of the ghetto, but you cant take the ghetto out of the boy"

I was taught that the man in charge is in charge for a reason, its not by accident, and its not my "place" to question that man. That "place" is earned, and held by few, and they know better than to ever question him in front of others. How a real Father should be respected. (mothers too!)

This is not a dictatorship, a "council" discusses matters but ultimately orders come from one place. This eliminates confusion, discourages the ignorant or inexperienced from acting on impulse, or taking direction from somebody with ulterior motives.

If something goes wrong you have only one direction to look to find the person responsible. He will let you know if and what will be done to fix it, has the resources to do so, and the integrity that guarantees results.

If you think the boss is slipping, you dont dare express that thought to anyone prematurely, you will do your homework and be absolutely positive before opening your mouth. Each word spoken in accusations, assumptions, gossip, etc. are like axe chops on a tree, and you're in the treehouse. Nobody trusts a treehouse in a chopped up tree.

When someone is introduced, especially if introduced by the boss, that someone is given the same respect you would give the person doing the introduction. Any issues with that someone are discussed privately with your associate first, not directly to that person. This allows conflicts to be addressed by friends first, strangers are quick to battle for pride instead of principle.

If Bill tells me Charles is Jesus, Ill say "pleezed ta meecha mister jeeezus" and if somethings seems fishy Ill give it a looooooong hard thought. Then Ill pretend Im Bills attorney and its my job to convince the jury that charles IS jesus. When Im done buildin my case and Ive failed to convince myself, I can at least say I gave Bill the benefit of the doubt... thats the LEAST he deserves.

Bill built Avalon.(think about it......a lil more....lil more.......AHA! "yeah, its kind of a big deal") We are all guests in Bills house. Sure we'd all like to decorate our rooms or re-arrange the furniture, move breakfast to noon, play our music really loud because "I know everybody loves this song as much as I do they just dont know it yet!"

Stand around pointing and adjusting our manhood while we tell folks how we woulda done it or whats wrong with the way its done. But really those are behaviors once considered rude.

Think about all the disrespectful things some people do while in somebody elses house and then compare it to avalon...it kinda humbled me a lil.

I took off my shoes, went back to the bathroom and wiped the pee drops on the toilet with some t.p. and put the seat down, ADDED some beers TO the fridge, took out the trash (without being asked) and left this lil note for the host and fellow guests.

Im trying to express the power of TRUE LOYALTY, where you slap the mouths of those who speak any ill words of your friends. Someone accuses a friend and you DEFEND them as if it were you, without question. Refuse to listen to negativity.

.....and before you try to tell me why Im wrong, try to tell yourself why Im right.

or not. you're still awesome.

[An Cailleach]

Quote from Ross from another thread:

"I believe that if all parties involved, were to sit together, over a cuppa, away from the forums, in each other’s energy, with "real" eye contact, much would be resolved."


Can someone try to organise this please?? :hippie:

How good would it be to see an end to the bad vibes?!

[grapevine]

I think that when a contentious point is made by a forum member their INTENT shines through the message, although subliminally in some cases. Intent to provoke a stimulating and thought provoking discussion is different to just causing trouble or having a pop at somebody. I wrote to a new friend in a recent pm that it saddened me to read these types of comments because if we can't work all together on this extraordinary forum, what hope is there for the rest of the world? They just alienate everybody ....

Oh the whole though I THINK WE'RE DOING JUST GREAT, DON'T YOU?? :)

Love you Bill -mwar mwar mwar

[Davidallany]

Good thread. Thank you Bill.

[loveandgratitude]

THE LIGHTHOUSE
As you raise your vibrations you are like a lighthouse in a fog. As you come to realize this, you realize that with each level you reach, your vibration elevates. The brighter your light becomes and the stronger those of "darkness" can see you and be attracted to your light. Negative energies and people will try to cling to you, argue with you. However, now that you are more aware of your light, with consistent practice and due diligence for yourself, you will be able to recognize them as well. It takes time and practice. We are all constantly working on the goal to rid ourselves of the negative energies and "ego" based thought processes.

We strive to release those negative energies and move higher. As you pass the test of letting those of negative/lower vibrations fall away (whether it be people, places, things, situations, etc.), the easier life becomes! The more opportunities of positive, love and light come your way. And the more you take those opportunities and say "yes" to the Universe, the more life will powerfully open up to you. It's a positive ripple effect.

You will start to notice friends of lower vibrations fall away. If you let them cling to you, they will bring you down and you will have to fight hard to get back "up". It's not impossible, but it will make your path harder if you don't just naturally let those people fall out of your life. These people drag your vibrations to lower levels if you let them with their negative talk and negative sense of being. They can't help it themselves, as they are not "aware" or "awake". Some will naturally just let *you* go, but it is also a test for *you* to let them go when the opportunity presents itself.

You know that feeling you get from certain people. You dread talking to them or when you do talk with them they act as a Psychic/Energy Vampire and literally suck the life out of you. It's a subtle but strong negative pull. This causes a negative internal ripple effect on you. And when you are at a higher vibration you will feel this even stronger than when you were lower. The fight gets harder and the pull stronger. You must fight back and strive for positive love and light to come your way.

Negative situations may occur as well and you must be more aware of your surroundings and situations. Take a moment. Truly see it for what it is and not the surface issue(s). Depending on the situation you can ignore it and let it "fall away". Other situations require you to openly reject the situation in order for you to "rise above". If you don't take action against negative energy you risk it affecting you in a horrendous way.

Your light will guide you to where you need to go. You will feel your path naturally. You will flow into the right situations. When you are on the right path, life flows easily. You will know your life's passion and the Universe will easily take you to it. There will be challenges, but they will be easily seen and conquered. Stay in your light, take positive action, protect yourself from negative energies, be constantly aware and in the NOW and you will thrive.

LOVE TO ALL ON AVALON and THANK YOU FOR ALL BEING HERE. I will strive to keep my own energy higher when confronted with negative energies. This is my personal challange that I am learning from AVALON. Thank you for this challenge.

[litmus]

------


Something else is going on here - more to do with spiritual 'vibe' rather than intellectual analysis or grasp of raw information.



i just started posting on this forum and noticed the same thing. many of the people who post on similar forums seem they have to add a sometimes deeply personal view, regardless of the posts context.

and honestly if folks are posting and supporting any data on faith or religeon then that post is not taken as seriously by most readers.

the reason i responded was also because i have a question and this is kinda related.
do you consider or hope that the avalon forum posts will follow a "scientific" standard, and camelot posts more the "spiritual"?

[mirrirocks]

Integrity. One of my favorite themes. Great post Bill.
I will share my own experience with integrity as I think it might add to the conversation. For me it isn't about surrounding myself with people who have the same beliefs or world view as me.
Beliefs are hollow and shallow at the same time. A world view is something we can hold on to, to strictly. I love to surround myself with people who question my actions, my thoughts, my behavior. Who show me a mirror. They don't have to agree with everything I say, please not. It pushes my buttons when my 'friends' agree with me, for the sake of harmony or what they sometimes call: to be in alignment with each other, and harmonize. When you are a public person, it happens to often that people want to speak your language, use the same words, phrases, expressions, simply cause they want you to like them. You can use the same words and say something completely different. I respect authenticity. The ability to speak a different language against what is socially accepted or how we are conditioned.

When we realize that we all are independent thinkers, at a bigger level, independent free souls, we realize that we already are in alignment all the time, by simple being spirits that are having a human experience. When we communicate on a human level, we can play fun games with each other, discuss, be on the same page, disagree etc. When we connect and take our conversations to a higher level, there is a sharing of higher truths. Of experiences, views that are real to you right now on your path. I like that.

At this moment I feel there is a big clearing going on, on a small scale and on a big universal scale. Friends that used to be friends are seduced by power games, New friends enter your life, which you never even considered to be so real, authentic and honest. These times are weird, there are tsunamis of power games going on, forces that are stronger than we can imagine, but more hollow than love.
It asks from us to not only be in integrity with our human vessel, expressions and thoughts but above all with our souls. There is the freedom that will illuminate other forces, there is the real power that doesn't come from above or the outside, but from a place deep within, radiating out worths. That is the immortal power of integrity.

[araucaria]

in·teg·ri·ty/inˈtegritē/Noun
1. The quality of being honest and having strong moral principles; moral uprightness.
2. The state of being whole and undivided: "territorial integrity". 
Wikipedia - Dictionary.com - Answers.com - Merriam-Webster


If I came to your house and and had to fill out an application to come inside, I would ask you to do the same for me. Because I had never joined a forum before, I assumed this was the natural protocol of things.

I did not realize that the "house" I entered and the "host" I trusted would change names. It certainly felt like I was in charles's "house" and since that happened, integrity would be the last word I would choose to describe that.

Do you not realize Bill that you took a lot of people for a ride? People like me who are in dire straits and then i join Avalon where there is talk of a new timeline, a machine you were going to ask questions to, a group of controllers you were going to meet, and the members here participating in what you may decide to bring to the table when you met this group. There was supposed to be another interview with Charles. What has happened to all this plans?

Furthermore, Bill, you have been silent on the whole Charles situation. I have no idea what to make of it all. The beginning of the video when you interviewed Charles was such an inspiration. "look what we did!" ummmmm......... What did we do? Am I missing something? What's up with all the secrecy Bill?

I have seen a lot of people come and go since I have been here and quite a few loose ends as well. Now we have you telling us Inelia is amazing and the interview with her is being built up just like Charles was. And there are documents that Kerry posts showing a much different perspective. The letter she posted in which Bill wrote about Charles states nothing about Aubrey or the machine or Charles dying of cancer. And the reference to St. Germain indicates nowhere that he is Charles's father.

I feel very unsettled by all of this. So if I am being "watched" in your house, fine. My IPad and IPhone are watching me and my XBOX 360 is too. And Big Brother. And my neighbors. And my bank. And the cops. So I'm fine adding Avalon to the list.

I just really had hopes that I had found a house built on INTEGRITY and not hypocrisy.

I'd like to attempt a helpful answer in a small way to this post.

If you joined on 27th January (I joined on the 24th), then Charles was already a prominent guest in the dining room, having filled in a much lengthier 'application form' than yours or mine. I can understand that maybe you didn't come for Charles, but nevertheless Bill did not exactly spring him on you, did he?

If you did come for the ride, it may have been bumpier than you bargained for. This can happen. When a funfair says 'not for people of a nervous disposition' you need to recognize when that means you. Meanwhile there were people in the sitting-room who could hear enough across the hallway; you could have joined them. How you circulate at a private party is your own business, it's usually pretty easy to drift off if you don't like what you're hearing.

On the other hand, you host will not be available much just for you. I recently attended a large function where the host invited me to the cocktail party afterwards to continue our conversation. I joined the queue to speak to him, but of course it never happened. No bother. You don't expect anything major to happen at a party, except perhaps making a few contacts.

Just relax.

[Ross]

do you consider or hope that the avalon forum posts will follow a "scientific" standard, and camelot posts more the "spiritual"?


Critical thinking, common-sense and rational are worthy tools to have in your arsenal, along with intuition and heart felt energy...find a balance with these abilities and one will do very well with any endevour, including forum posts:yo:

Ross.

[litmus]

do you consider or hope that the avalon forum posts will follow a "scientific" standard, and camelot posts more the "spiritual"?


Critical thinking, common-sense and rational are worthy tools to have in your arsenal, along with intuition and heart felt energy...find a balance with these abilities and one will do very well with any endevour.

Ross.

this has gotta be a joke.. if it is its clever
i really think you are jokeing. pm me if you wish to reply please

[skippy]

Let it go. People come, people go. As long as we stick to our integrity, PA is alive and kicking! Let the others do their thing...

Skip

[Ross]

do you consider or hope that the avalon forum posts will follow a "scientific" standard, and camelot posts more the "spiritual"?


Critical thinking, common-sense and rational are worthy tools to have in your arsenal, along with intuition and heart felt energy...find a balance with these abilities and one will do very well with any endevour.

Ross.

this has gotta be a joke.. if it is its clever


No joke my friend, my observations with all dealings in life.

Ross

[wisky]

Thanks Bill, what you said resonates so much with me.

Please let me share my experience a bit here: in 2008,on random internet reading, I learnt the fact that financial collapse was engineered and the way how monetary systems worked is not the same as what we usually expected. Being stupid and naive, I started to inform and discuss what I have learnt with my close friends in manner as sincere as I could, hoping we all could take necessary precautions financially. The response I got was totally out of my expectation, I was ridiculed, attacked, labelled as conspiracy theorist. I was very upset, confused and started to ask myself: "I did it all from good will, even if you don't believe and agree with me, do I deserved to be attacked in these emotional and hateful ways". It took me quite some time to understand that people have their own expectation of life and reality. And the belief is usually pretty firmed. Whenever the line is crossed, quite common people will just pick up their swords, fire saber and fight.

Inspired by Buddhism philosophy, I later learnt throughout our life it is inevitable that we need to part with old friends, and connect with new companies with similar “vibration”. We did not make the call because of anger/hatred. We make the call simply because we understand that in order to complete our learning on planet Earth, we need to make the choice. In my later search of truth, I found and connected with Project Camelot and then Project Avalon. It is truly amazed that people in this territory can discuss highly controversial issues in such an intellectual and respectful way, I have never seen anywhere else on this planet. The experience of my staying here always reminds me of how important it is to shape and divert our own ego in such a balance way that, we don’t go against our true feelings too much and yet we could together make this transitional period a success

Wisky

[Bill Ryan]

Something else is going on here - more to do with spiritual 'vibe' rather than intellectual analysis or grasp of raw information.


do you consider or hope that the avalon forum posts will follow a "scientific" standard, and camelot posts more the "spiritual"?

No - that's not what I'm saying at all! :)

I was referring to the phenomenon of separation... and the regrouping, in new configurations, of friends, relationships and allies.

Old friends, who I never hurt or harmed, have recently been unable to understand me: and I can't understand them, either.

What I'm saying is that this failure to understand is nothing to do with failure of intellect: it's to do with a disharmony of something else entirely.

We're singing in different keys: talking in different languages: or trying to accompany a piano with uilleann pipes. It's a spiritual mismatch: not an intellectual one.

It's not even about right or left brain: I think there's something completely different going on at the moment, which is gathering momentum and gaining in amplitude.

Many of you will know that I've recently got to know Inelia quite well. When I first met her, she explained to me that the way each person sees her is a mirror. They only see themselves.

It took a while for me to fully understand this. Initially, I thought that this was a kind of interesting poetic metaphor.

But I came to realize that what she was describing is a remarkable phenomenon that is literally true in her case: and that, at least partially (and maybe more than partially), this also applies to myself, and of course some other people, too. To consider this in all its aspects is more than fascinating.

This is now rather off-topic, and will be included in the seminars Inelia and I will be giving (starting in Sacramento on 30 April (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?18497-Bill-Inelia-experimental-seminar-Sacramento-CA-Saturday-30-April)) - but there's an aspect of human comprehension that is neither intellectual nor intuitive, but is something ese: it just knows. It recognizes. It realizes. It's operating at a higher level than intuition - and at a much higher level than intellect.

Intellect is valuable (like having a fast computer processor) - but is way over-rated. The processor is nothing without good programs. And the processor and programs are nothing without the operator.

The 'operator', of course, is the unharnessed, unencumbered spiritual being. The program is the mind (which may contain all kinds of bugs, viruses, glitches, redundant files, and recurring errors, some of them major): the intellect is the brain (which may be fast or slow).

But the operator is now making the difference. The operator can see - or not see, understand, or not understand. The operator is what we resonate with in people once we transcend all the other stuff that just gets in the way.

To call it how I think it is: the regroupings, the new friendships and relationships, and the re-arranged alliances are manifestations and reflections of us as spiritual beings. Not of anything else.

If this is what I feel this is, this is an enormously important development. It's hard to talk about this in anything other than metaphor. Some of you will grasp what I'm saying - and I welcome your mirroring. :)

[Hervé]

Right, right, right... the unencumbered one allowing for the free flow of energy without stops or ridges/dams: what comes in goes back out unaltered. Hence nothing to grab on in the ways of control whether technological or psychical... very, very interesting.

Well, that's a whole different realm of integrity in itself... so it might not be off topic after all ;-)

Man! How to talk about something with no words known to describe it?

[Mad Hatter]

G’day one and all, forgive me being presumptuous but here ismy tuppence worth from a relative Avalon newbie...

With regard to the thread subject matter ie ‘Integrity’ Ifully concur with that definition. For me the art of ‘walking your talk’ wasconsolidated via a Forum(EST) training course I did many moons ago and for the handful of people that opted to take onthe lesson by baring ones heart and soul in front of a room full of 300strangers it was very profound.

The downside to integrating this process in my life was tohave some people say I’d become a self opinionated outspoken pr!ck. So be it.As long as I have spoken my truth as I know it to be I get to sleep well atnight. Employers also have a tendency to view this as not being a team playerto which I usually respond I know ‘Their is no I in team’ but there is me andif this is team lemming then I simply want to make sure fearless leader haslistened to all available input!!
The other really useful advice pointed out by Bill and many othermembers is the necessity to take what resonates and leave the rest. To this I would add that if like me you are disadvantaged byonly knowing one language then be extremely careful when trying to read betweenthe lines of one you are not native too.
One of my earliest interactions on the board was withsomeone whom I percieved as being sarcastic. I went into bat on the subjectmatter but unfortunately found myself playing the man and not the ball. Myapologies to Bob for that.

Another incident of that nature occurred simply due tohaving not made my position clear enough by attempting to keep posts short assome members had complained about lengthy posts. This then raises that as anissue. For those that prefer not to read longer posts, perhaps you might liketo consider that sometimes to portray an idea adequately a certain amount ofcontext is required.

Using this post as an example I was initially going to saynothing more than...
“The opposite of a profound truth is another profound truth”Neils Bohr /sarc “Secrets arethe first bastion of the inept” /sarc

but taking that approach how many of you would havediscerned what I really meant??

Anyhow, anyone of you would be welcomed into my very humbleabode but you may find yourself subjected to very robust discussion on why youmay or may not hold a particular position on certain subject matter.
If I preface my post with “Putting on my devils advocate hat”and you find what follows disconcerting please accept that it is only in thespirit of me attempting to ascertain why and how deeply held your belief may beso that I might learn accordingly since to paraphrase yet another of myfavourite quotes...

“If the facts change I change my position, what do you do?”

[gigha]

If this is what I feel this is, this is an enormously important development. It's hard to talk about this in anything other than metaphor. Some of you will grasp what I'm saying - and I welcome your mirroring. :)

Thanks .

[litmus]

i implied that my question was regarding you entire post. and i didnt intend to.
lol, but i like where that went better.

and i agree with you comment " but there's an aspect of human comprehension that is neither intellectual nor intuitive, but is something ese: it just knows"
does this also relate to a few things charles mentioned briefly. nevermind im mixing the machine he spoke of up with this.

[Icecold]

Originally Posted by Bill Ryan
Something else is going on here - more to do with spiritual 'vibe' rather than intellectual analysis or grasp of raw information.

I understand what you are saying. Its not rocket science.

Purges occur for many reasons and they are always justified in some way or another. People do not like dissent and react accordingly. Sometimes its against Trotskyites, sometimes its against the perceived spiritually different. A perceived threat of some kind is dealt with accordingly and an excuse is made. The sycophantic are as safe as houses. There are many of these on every Bill or Kerry thread. Then there are other truthful members who risk purging because of their honesty and integrity.

Integrity is not associated with sycophants.

In the 'new age' it is because of supposed spiritual differences that we indulge in purges. Very hard to prove spiritual differences. To prove that one is more spiritually advanced than another and to claim that they are the 'other' as a result. Its like using a dream as evidence for something...how can you do that? How do you prove that you really had a dream and are not making it up?

Many will not post on this thread, because they will be afraid to speak, in case they are the next one to be purged. But then, you can clean up a thread and delete the evidence so that it will appear as if nothing at all happened. Just another disappearance......That shows a style of integrity doesn't it??????

The sycophants will continue to post without fear. :nod:

I'm not attacking any named individual in this post. My posts don't usually contain names or 'you'. I challenge ideas not people and this confuses some members and they come back with personal attacks against me. I don't always get it right, but I aim to get it right.

I am here and remain here because of posters like 9Eagle9, Selene, Lord Sidious, Fred259.....Heavens....just look at my friend list please, there are many more members that keep me here reading their thoughts. I love all of these people for being here.

I thank Bill for providing the opportunity for this forum to exist. I am not here because of Bill's wisdom, or his personality or his opinions or judgements. I am here because of the members and their thoughts and friendship....some mods included. :)

[elysian]

Thanks again Bill :)
I really like the Computer comparison with humans. I believe we either created computers in our own image or maybe it is just the way life works (as a fractal pattern, nature repeating it self on all levels).
In these times we as operators are all trying to find compatible software to connect with through our computers. :ranger:

[jjl]

Does the separation occur between the "knowing" and "unknowing"?
I mean people, not the concept, those that innately "know" and those that don't yet.
I'm not speaking of a new elitism, I know perfectly well where I fall. No illusions there. But I am trying to understand where the separation takes place.
Thanks for the thread Bill.

[torzbc]

Originally Posted by Bill Ryan
Something else is going on here - more to do with spiritual 'vibe' rather than intellectual analysis or grasp of raw information.

I understand what you are saying. Its not rocket science.

Purges occur for many reasons and they are always justified in some way or another. People do not like dissent and react accordingly. Sometimes its against Trotskyites, sometimes its against the perceived spiritually different. A perceived threat of some kind is dealt with accordingly and an excuse is made. The sycophantic are as safe as houses. There are many of these on every Bill or Kerry thread. Then there are other truthful members who risk purging because of their honesty and integrity.

Integrity is not associated with sycophants.

In the 'new age' it is because of supposed spiritual differences that we indulge in purges. Very hard to prove spiritual differences. To prove that one is more spiritually advanced than another and to claim that they are the 'other' as a result. Its like using a dream as evidence for something...how can you do that? How do you prove that you really had a dream and are not making it up?

Many will not post on this thread, because they will be afraid to speak, in case they are the next one to be purged. But then, you can clean up a thread and delete the evidence so that it will appear as if nothing at all happened. Just another disappearance......That shows a style of integrity doesn't it??????

The sycophants will continue to post without fear. :nod:

I'm not attacking any named individual in this post. My posts don't usually contain names or 'you'. I challenge ideas not people and this confuses some members and they come back with personal attacks against me. I don't always get it right, but I aim to get it right.

I am here and remain here because of posters like 9Eagle9, Selene, Lord Sidious, Fred259.....Heavens....just look at my friend list please, there are many more members that keep me here reading their thoughts. I love all of these people for being here.

I thank Bill for providing the opportunity for this forum to exist. I am not here because of Bill's wisdom, or his personality or his opinions or judgements. I am here because of the members and their thoughts and friendship....some mods included. :)


Thanks for your clarity.....

[Davidallany]

Old friends, who I never hurt or harmed, have recently been unable to understand me: and I can't understand them, either.

What I'm saying is that this failure to understand is nothing to do with failure of intellect: it's to do with a disharmony of something else entirely.
Right on Bill. That is exactly what has been happening in my life lately. Very good friends can't relate with me, and I can't with them. I feel a great energy drain when around them, it's as though they became lifeless or lacking energy. I have never seen it before recent times though.


If this is what I feel this is, this is an enormously important development. It's hard to talk about this in anything other than metaphor. Some of you will grasp what I'm saying - and I welcome your mirroring.
Bill, my first awareness is chakras.

[Real Intent]

Originally Posted by Bill Ryan
Something else is going on here - more to do with spiritual 'vibe' rather than intellectual analysis or grasp of raw information.

I understand what you are saying. Its not rocket science.

Purges occur for many reasons and they are always justified in some way or another. People do not like dissent and react accordingly. Sometimes its against Trotskyites, sometimes its against the perceived spiritually different. A perceived threat of some kind is dealt with accordingly and an excuse is made. The sycophantic are as safe as houses. There are many of these on every Bill or Kerry thread. Then there are other truthful members who risk purging because of their honesty and integrity.

Integrity is not associated with sycophants.

In the 'new age' it is because of supposed spiritual differences that we indulge in purges. Very hard to prove spiritual differences. To prove that one is more spiritually advanced than another and to claim that they are the 'other' as a result. Its like using a dream as evidence for something...how can you do that? How do you prove that you really had a dream and are not making it up?

Many will not post on this thread, because they will be afraid to speak, in case they are the next one to be purged. But then, you can clean up a thread and delete the evidence so that it will appear as if nothing at all happened. Just another disappearance......That shows a style of integrity doesn't it??????

The sycophants will continue to post without fear. :nod:

I'm not attacking any named individual in this post. My posts don't usually contain names or 'you'. I challenge ideas not people and this confuses some members and they come back with personal attacks against me. I don't always get it right, but I aim to get it right.

I am here and remain here because of posters like 9Eagle9, Selene, Lord Sidious, Fred259.....Heavens....just look at my friend list please, there are many more members that keep me here reading their thoughts. I love all of these people for being here.

I thank Bill for providing the opportunity for this forum to exist. I am not here because of Bill's wisdom, or his personality or his opinions or judgements. I am here because of the members and their thoughts and friendship....some mods included. :)

what do you mean?

[Whiskey_Mystic]

[
Many of you will know that I've recently got to know Inelia quite well. When I first met her, she explained to me that the way each person sees her is a mirror. They only see themselves.

It took a while for me to fully understand this. Initially, I thought that this was a kind of interesting poetic metaphor.

But I came to realize that what she was describing is a remarkable phenomenon that is literally true in her case: and that, at least partially (and maybe more than partially), this also applies to myself, and of course some other people, too. To consider this in all its aspects is more than fascinating.


What you are describing reminds me of what Robert Johnson used to say about falling in love. He said that when we first fall in love, it isn't love. How can it be? We barely know the person. What is really happening is that we are in love with the way this person makes us feel about ourselves. So it is our own reflection that we fall in love with. We fall in love with ourselves. Speaking for myself, I tend to like people who agree with me or see the world the same way I do the most. Is that what you mean, Bill?

This topic might be over my head. Literally. I live too much in my head and this seems higher than that. Possibly it is something which language is inadequate a tool to discuss it. Perhaps poetry, painting, or dance would work better. The name that can be named is not the eternal name.

Back to integrity. Integrity is a very important topic for me. I have found it lacking in the people who populate our planet. I know I am over critical. I think a big part of integrity is self honesty. Perhaps people lose their integrity when they become willing to delude themselves.

edit-

I was just thinking that the old sports axiom applies to my view of life. It's literally not whether we win or lose. It's how we play the game.

[greybeard]

Old friends, who I never hurt or harmed, have recently been unable to understand me: and I can't understand them, either.

What I'm saying is that this failure to understand is nothing to do with failure of intellect: it's to do with a disharmony of something else entirely.
Right on Bill. That is exactly what has been happening in my life lately. Very good friends can't relate with me, and I can't with them. I feel a great energy drain when around them, it's as though they became lifeless or lacking energy. I have never seen it before recent times though.

Yes David the moment there is serious commitment to finding spiritual truth ie What am I?
Everything changes --- friends think you have lost it.
Everything unnecessary seems to depart from your life --your needs are provided auomatically.
The paradox is that you find your actions may disturb you for a while, as all that is not you comes up to be witnessed and released.
One might be forcing oneself to be reasonable - integreous - forgiving - loving etc but at that time you are suppressing your true feelings.
You may go through a period where you seem to lack these virtues even though it is your intention to be kind and loving.
Then bit by bit as the character defects are witnessed and released, the integrity and your intention to be kind and loving just happens -- not forced.
There is a period of fluctuating between lack of these these qualities and then they come back more fimly entrenched that before as conditioning etc is released.

All this takes time -- be understanding of your self and kind to you -- it is a big shift from being self serving to selfless action.
The ego has no desire to put the well being of others first.

Your friends will really not understand that you are in a sometimes painful process of becoming what you really are already.
Just requires removal of all that is not true to your Self.

Chris

[Gaia]

Originally Posted by Bill Ryan
Something else is going on here - more to do with spiritual 'vibe' rather than intellectual analysis or grasp of raw information.

I understand what you are saying. Its not rocket science.

Purges occur for many reasons and they are always justified in some way or another. People do not like dissent and react accordingly. Sometimes its against Trotskyites, sometimes its against the perceived spiritually different. A perceived threat of some kind is dealt with accordingly and an excuse is made. The sycophantic are as safe as houses. There are many of these on every Bill or Kerry thread. Then there are other truthful members who risk purging because of their honesty and integrity.

Integrity is not associated with sycophants.

In the 'new age' it is because of supposed spiritual differences that we indulge in purges. Very hard to prove spiritual differences. To prove that one is more spiritually advanced than another and to claim that they are the 'other' as a result. Its like using a dream as evidence for something...how can you do that? How do you prove that you really had a dream and are not making it up?

Many will not post on this thread, because they will be afraid to speak, in case they are the next one to be purged. But then, you can clean up a thread and delete the evidence so that it will appear as if nothing at all happened. Just another disappearance......That shows a style of integrity doesn't it??????

The sycophants will continue to post without fear. :nod:

I'm not attacking any named individual in this post. My posts don't usually contain names or 'you'. I challenge ideas not people and this confuses some members and they come back with personal attacks against me. I don't always get it right, but I aim to get it right.

I am here and remain here because of posters like 9Eagle9, Selene, Lord Sidious, Fred259.....Heavens....just look at my friend list please, there are many more members that keep me here reading their thoughts. I love all of these people for being here.

I thank Bill for providing the opportunity for this forum to exist. I am not here because of Bill's wisdom, or his personality or his opinions or judgements. I am here because of the members and their thoughts and friendship....some mods included. :)

Very well said Icecold, folks are free to be themselves.

We learn, we grow, we change.

[Davidallany]

Everything unnecessary seems to depart from your life --your needs are provided auomatically.
The paradox is that you find your actions may disturb you for a while, as all that is not you comes up to be witnessed and released.
One might be forcing oneself to be reasonable - integreous - forgiving - loving etc but at that time you are suppressing your true feelings.
You may go through a period where you seem to lack these virtues even though it is your intention to be kind and loving.
Then bit by bit as the character defects are witnessed and released, the integrity and your intention to be kind and loving just happens -- not forced.
There is a period of fluctuating between lack of these these qualities and then they come back more fimly entrenched that before as conditioning etc is released.

All this takes time -- be understanding of your self and kind to you -- it is a big shift from being self serving to selfless action.
The ego has no desire to put the well being of others first.

Your friends will really not understand that you are in a sometimes painful process of becoming what you really are already.
Just requires removal of all that is not true to your Self.

Chris
What you say, Chris, resonates with my experience. Thank you.

[Brodie75]

Thanks Bill for this thread:)
My personal opinion is that everyone we meet during our illusory lives here in 3D are mirrors.
If we are here to grow and or relearn our true nature then this makes more sense to me than

just the occassional recognition of ourselves in specific people.
I believe i understand what your saying but i don't think it's as complicated as you
hypothisize. I base my opinion on the notion that we are all one

Of course this is just my humble opinion.:thank_you2:

[Beloved]

Thank you so very much for posting this! I would conjecture that many of our journeys reflect this. Especially the part about: "This does not portend any kind of big, destructive conflict. But I see it as more of a separation of 'vibration' (dare I say the word!) - natural re-clusterings and new alliances of people who see things in similar, mutually agreed ways because other perceptions are (or may be) denied them."

I see this happening in my own life and is gathering apace! I feel so blessed that I've been imbued with the spiritual wisdom to know that all is as it should be. And to that end, I think it is compulsory that those of us purportedly on a slightly different place on the learning curve REPRESENT! Like Michael Jackson said in his song 'Man in the Mirror': 'IF YOU WANT TO MAKE THE WORLD A BETTER PLACE, TAKE A LOOK AT YOURSELF AND MAKE THAT CHANGE".

More so than ever, we must teach by example and INTEGRITY is vital to that end. Namaste! (such a powerful word!)

[K626]

Something else is going on here - more to do with spiritual 'vibe' rather than intellectual analysis or grasp of raw information.


do you consider or hope that the avalon forum posts will follow a "scientific" standard, and camelot posts more the "spiritual"?

No - that's not what I'm saying at all! :)

I was referring to the phenomenon of separation... and the regrouping, in new configurations, of friends, relationships and allies.

Old friends, who I never hurt or harmed, have recently been unable to understand me: and I can't understand them, either.

What I'm saying is that this failure to understand is nothing to do with failure of intellect: it's to do with a disharmony of something else entirely.

We're singing in different keys: talking in different languages: or trying to accompany a piano with uilleann pipes. It's a spiritual mismatch: not an intellectual one.

It's not even about right or left brain: I think there's something completely different going on at the moment, which is gathering momentum and gaining in amplitude.

Many of you will know that I've recently got to know Inelia quite well. When I first met her, she explained to me that the way each person sees her is a mirror. They only see themselves.

It took a while for me to fully understand this. Initially, I thought that this was a kind of interesting poetic metaphor.

But I came to realize that what she was describing is a remarkable phenomenon that is literally true in her case: and that, at least partially (and maybe more than partially), this also applies to myself, and of course some other people, too. To consider this in all its aspects is more than fascinating.

This is now rather off-topic, and will be included in the seminars Inelia and I will be giving (starting in Sacramento on 30 April (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?18497-Bill-Inelia-experimental-seminar-Sacramento-CA-Saturday-30-April)) - but there's an aspect of human comprehension that is neither intellectual nor intuitive, but is something ese: it just knows. It recognizes. It realizes. It's operating at a higher level than intuition - and at a much higher level than intellect.

Intellect is valuable (like having a fast computer processor) - but is way over-rated. The processor is nothing without good programs. And the processor and programs are nothing without the operator.

The 'operator', of course, is the unharnessed, unencumbered spiritual being. The program is the mind (which may contain all kinds of bugs, viruses, glitches, redundant files, and recurring errors, some of them major): the intellect is the brain (which may be fast or slow).

But the operator is now making the difference. The operator can see - or not see, understand, or not understand. The operator is what we resonate with in people once we transcend all the other stuff that just gets in the way.dnsp what I'm saying - and I welcome your mirroring. :)

Truth is always composed by various versions of it harmonising. These versions only continue to exist due to their core identification with the finality.

Try and work that out my dears.

love

k

[Charlie Pecos]

Thank you Bill, your posts here are well thought out and very clearly written. I couldn't agree more with the concepts you are expressing. There has been a very big paradigm shift in my own life over the last year and a half. I lost a trusted friend and employer due to great changes in vibrational energy between us and I lost my house (short sale) in part due to this circumstance. A complete paradigm shift. But it's not bad by any measure because I had been desiring a positive change in my life for quite some time. We now live in a small energy efficient house that backs up to open space. I now work with a group of individuals who are much more aligned with my change in energy, their integrity is a refreshing change from the psychopaths I used to work with.

Like Greybeard was expressing, I too have received scorn from close friends and family members for expressing myself on this new path, but I find my journey into selflessness to be very liberating. Indeed, everything unnecessary does seem to depart from ones life. Thank you for inviting me to join you here. Much love and peace to all.

[Beloved]

My mother taught me early on: "when you don't like someone, it's usually because they represent something within you, that you don't like about yourself." I grappled with this forever, but nevertheless, endeavoured to apply this principle throughout most of my life and though there were times when I'd be adamantly defiant thinking this or that person is nothing like me.....in retrospect she was absolutely bang on!! So as those situations arose, I became more adept at letting that philosophy be my first port of call.....REFLECTIVITY!! I think that what Bill speaks about is precisely that - it's not intellectual or intuitive, but highly REFLECTIVE RESONANCE.

Just trying to put it all together, as are we all and thought I'd share.
Namaste!

[bennycog]

My mother taught me early on: "when you don't like someone, it's usually because they represent something within you, that you don't like about yourself." I grappled with this forever, but nevertheless, endeavoured to apply this principle throughout most of my life and though there were times when I'd be adamantly defiant thinking this or that person is nothing like me.....in retrospect she was absolutely bang on!! So as those situations arose, I became more adept at letting that philosophy be my first port of call.....REFLECTIVITY!! I think that what Bill speaks about is precisely that - it's not intellectual or intuitive, but highly REFLECTIVE RESONANCE.

Just trying to put it all together, as are we all and thought I'd share.
Namaste!

That might explain my squeamish nature around redheads :) I was born a gingertop, and thankfully it morphed itself into dark brown. (still i can grow a ginger beard though lol)

[toothpick]

I can absolutely feel some vibrational changes for sure, and, no doubt there are some lines being drawn.
Also I can relate to the bit about long standing friends parting ways.
I have lost very old and valuable friends simply because we can,t dicuss the obvious changes all around us. Still love them though.
But it feels a little funny, because, I don,t miss them and have no thoughts of making amends with these dear old friends.
I just want to continue my journey of learning. It almost feels a little selfish.

When one,s beliefs, actions and statements are in line, so, are there vibratons.

The reason that we use the word "no" is for self preservation, very positive.

Integrity, "Moral wholeness", "uprightness" and "soundness of character".
Maybe this will resonate.
I put my two grandsons on the school bus every morning and afternoon, so I get to spend a great deal of time with them.
Thank-you to whomever or whatever the original creator of this universe was or is.
I,ll be gratefull to her forever for my time with these boys.
Anyway, I try to give them the best advice I can.
I tell them," if and when you are old enough, and they ever they want to know the truth about anything, come and ask me and I will always tell you the truth, situational of course.
I try to give them as simplistic advice as possible.
There are so many things they need to learn on thier own.
The one they hear from me the most is, you boys were brought up proper enough, you both know "right from wrong" "hurt from tickle" and "give love to get love".
In any situation no matter how serious or funny, you know the right thing to do and you both know the wrong thing to do.
Use compassion in your thoughts and make your decision. They are 9 ad 10 yrs old.
The generation that will straighten out everything for everybody.
I hope there is someting about integrity in all that.

toothpick

[bilko]

I came to the conclusion long ago that some people give their worst but expect the best.
The whys are too numerous to mention.

I think it goes beyond what a good book said - " Do unto others as you would have done to yourself " but it does show that it was recognized a long time ago.
Ultimately it shows up one of the big paradoxes in life, there is no good and evil only action and reaction viewed by perspective.

Perspective being the key we use to transcend.
If every person is a mirror of us and we find fault in their action it invariably means we find fault in ourself.
When we can smile and say " they know not what they do " and are no longer affected by an others action we come from a place of freedom.

I think?

[Gardener]

Bill-->This does not portend any kind of big, destructive conflict. But I see it as more of a separation of 'vibration' (dare I say the word!) - natural re-clusterings and new alliances of people who see things in similar, mutually agreed ways because other perceptions are (or may be) denied them.

Yea 'vibration' has attracted some connotations, try 'frequency' Bill see how that resonates, it works for me.

Really interesting thread ty everyone.

g
:washing:

[John Parslow]

Thank you very much for this post Bill.

integrity

Pronunciation:/ɪnˈtɛgrɪti/

noun

[mass noun]

• 1 the quality of being honest and having strong moral principles: a gentleman of complete integrity e.g. Bill Ryan
• 2 the state of being whole and undivided: upholding territorial integrity and national sovereignty
• the condition of being unified or sound in construction: the structural integrity of the novel


This is the point. If there's a member here who I would not literally invite into my own home for an interesting chat (with other members who are also invited into my own home), then they may be asked to leave.
There's a very small number of members we've been applying this to, and we'll continue to do so. Anyone is free and welcome to say anything they want to anywhere on the internet - but not here.

I for one have always found you to be honest and truly a man of integrity, one only has to watch any of your excellent videos to date to understand you are a really upstanding citizen of the world. I do not actually post a lot but I have learned so much here and I am delighted to be a member of the best forum in the world even though there are often dissenting voices to be heard.

In your general posts you have always been clear and concise; and in any PM communications you are always generous with your time and conduct yourself with dignity; a sign of a true gentleman. You would be very welcome in my house anytime as a genuine and trusted friend.

My best regards to you both now and for the future. JP :cool:

[edina]

Something else is going on here - more to do with spiritual 'vibe' rather than intellectual analysis or grasp of raw information.


do you consider or hope that the avalon forum posts will follow a "scientific" standard, and camelot posts more the "spiritual"?

No - that's not what I'm saying at all! :)
- but there's an aspect of human comprehension that is neither intellectual nor intuitive, but is something ese: it just knows. It recognizes. It realizes. It's operating at a higher level than intuition - and at a much higher level than intellect.

Intellect is valuable (like having a fast computer processor) - but is way over-rated. The processor is nothing without good programs. And the processor and programs are nothing without the operator.

The 'operator', of course, is the unharnessed, unencumbered spiritual being. The program is the mind (which may contain all kinds of bugs, viruses, glitches, redundant files, and recurring errors, some of them major): the intellect is the brain (which may be fast or slow).

But the operator is now making the difference. The operator can see - or not see, understand, or not understand. The operator is what we resonate with in people once we transcend all the other stuff that just gets in the way.

To call it how I think it is: the regroupings, the new friendships and relationships, and the re-arranged alliances are manifestations and reflections of us as spiritual beings. Not of anything else.

If this is what I feel this is, this is an enormously important development. It's hard to talk about this in anything other than metaphor. Some of you will grasp what I'm saying - and I welcome your mirroring. :)

Bill, I want to give you a great BIG HUG!!! :grouphug:

What you have said here, I feel is most important in "Knowing" how to respond to the conditions we are entering in during this time, and no time.

I agree, understanding the principle of mirroring, or as Beloved called it, REFLECTIVE RESONANCE, (Loved that Beloved :o), and practising the skills of this in our lives is very helpful. So many wonderful spiritual gifts open up with this, as well as the development of our character, and noble virtues.

Eventually, we learn to see clearly, or see TRUE.

The result of this is we awaken to our Inner Knowing. We begin to awaken to our Self, our True Self, our Spirit Self Within.

This awakening to your Self is probably one of the most effective, graceful, and beautiful gifts we have to offer, first to ourself, and then to each other, and also to the Cosmos.

We live, and act from this True Self, or as Sepia described, "our being".

This being is who we are in a greater reality, and who we are in a greater community. And we bring our greater being into action here in our daily lives.

As you may imagine, this changes everything. Timelines change. Peoples hearts open up, their imagination and inspiration open up. As each one of us lives this way, Humanity creates It's Reality from this larger Reality.

I believe that what you are seeing as a regathering is the natural action of what happens when we begin to live our Knowing.

In fact, there is no separation, since we are all unique expressions of One Being.

When we come home to our Self, we begin to live from this Self.

This Self is unified with the larger One Being of All Life.

We start taking our direction from this larger perspective. And the magnificent intelligence of this One Being then guides us through our inner knowing into the relationships, and actions that express the highest purpose of All Life, or All That Is, of our One Being.

Discover...now...that we are all Radiant Beings living in a Reflective/Responsive Universe. In doing so, See Life reflect your Radiant Self.

I believe this is necessary so we may join the Greater Community of the Cosmos, and live in the Greater Reality of Life.

[HURRITT ENYETO]

Longstanding friends are parting company. Relationships are ending. New alliances are forming. Lines are being drawn. I do not understand all this yet. But it's clearly happening.

I liked that part the best :) and couldn't agree more,
Lines are being drawn in the sand and its about time.
*Hurritt withdraws himself from the sticky subject of integrity* hehe

Cheers
Hurritt

[SEAM]

I Hope that this is On-Topic, I Hope that it is not too long, and I Hope that you will all pardon me for "Ctrl C. & V.ing" this for your discernment...

Thank You BR.. I hope this is as fascinating as the explanations/thoughts you so aptly provide:

It is said that an "unhealthy" person is one who, among other things, is locked into his/her projections. A lot of disowned qualities (good and bad) of that person's self are unrecognized by the person, and are seen by the person as existing outside of one, especially in other persons who are emotionally important to him/her, either positively or negatively. The projected qualities are perceived as literally, unambiguously outside of the perceiver, other than the perceiver, just as clearly as seeing a piece of furniture outside of one. In Jungian terms, a shadow projection. An example at the macro level (Republicans may have a hard time with this example): What did George Bush accuse Saddam Hussein of being? How did Bush perceive Hussein? As a power-hungry dictator, cruel and insensitive to the needs of his own people, motivated solely by greed and power. I wonder if anyone ever experienced George Bush in the same way? In my view, these are Bush's unconscious attributes, projected onto Saddam. Important!: the idea that Bush was projecting his own attributes does not exclude the possibility that Saddam also had those attributes! In this case, I believe we had a mutual shadow projection. It might be easier for Americans to see that Saddam's perception of Bush--a power-hungry, cruel, expansionist dictator--was Saddam's projection. Other examples, perhaps clearer: the rabidly anti-homosexual minister is most often a closet gay, having furtive, guilt-ridden homosexual encounters, or at least powerful "temptations" or same-sex fantasies; the bomb-throwing leftist, enraged at fascism, is often a dictator at home to his own wife and children. The sexually abusive father accuses (and really perceives) his pre-oedipal daughter of being seductive and hungry for sex (!), when obviously (to outsiders) it is he who is being seductive and hungry for sex. The paranoid person (the projector par excellence) sees others as hostile to him, never dreaming that it is really he who is hostile to others. He sees himself as an innocent little lamb. In other words, to the extent we project, we attempt to deal with what are really our own attributes, in substitute fashion, "out there" in other people. The principle seems to be that those attributes in other people that really grab us and gall us, are--mortifyingly enough--the very ones that we possess, but have disowned. Projections get in the way of peaceful, reality-based relations with other people, since we are seeing them through the lens of our projections, instead of having compassion for them as being just as much in the bittersweet human predicament as we are. Certain kinds of pathology are associated with splitting, i.e. others and the self are seen as being either all-good or all-bad, and often projecting all the bad onto others. This is neat and simple, but not realistic. An adult with a view like this becomes alienated from others. (Incidentally, positive projection also operates: those qualities we are attracted to in other people are our own, undeveloped, unacknowledged positive qualities.)

As a person becomes healthier, s/he learns to withdraw the projections. This takes moral effort, and the willingness to endure the embarrassment of realizing that what I have accused others of, is also in myself. When one acknowledges this, one is immediately put into a more reality-based (and conciliatory) relation with others; one also regains access to parts of oneself that were hitherto alienated, thus increasing the strength of the self. The professional victim, for example, learns to acknowledge that s/he is also abusive to others. The rigid anti-gay learns to accept his own homosexual component. The callous person, who projects all his sensitivity onto others whom he attempts to exploit, learns to acknowledge his own vulnerability. Rather than see evil happening only in the enemy's camp, he learns, perhaps with a certain sheepish grin, that he is as much of a rascal as anybody else. Do I tend to see others as opinionated? Then I should ask myself whether others may not also experience me as opinionated. Do I tend to see people of different religion than myself as evil, benighted, aggressive? Better take a look at my own shadow side, that is, the things others see about me that I cannot directly see. Example: Christians have a stereotype about Muslims as being violent and spreading their religion through war. But take the viewpoint of all the peoples whom Christianity has oppressed (e.g. Native Americans and Africans), and who is it now who spreads their religion through war? And vice-versa: Muslims tend to see their own religion as the pinnacle of monotheism, humane and refined. They tend to see Christians as boorish warmongers. Just as in the case of Bush and Saddam (who may be seen as modern epitomes of this Christian/Islamic conflict), there is a mutual shadow projection going on. I'm using macro examples, but the really crucial areas for therapy are in intimate relations, of course.

Salvation from this kind of thing comes only when someone can see they are projecting, and begin to take responsibility for their projected qualities. This takes encouragement, some intellectual understanding of the nature of projection, a non-judgmental stance on the part of the helper, and the insight that withdrawing the projection will actually restore some sense of dignity, power, and freedom to the person doing the projecting. The key "motive" (only half-conscious) for projection is that it allows the projector to shed responsibility for the negative quality. It's not me that is hostile, it's that other guy, so I don't have to do the work of dealing with my anger, I can just sit back and accuse the other of being so gosh-darned hostile. When a projector (any of us) takes responsibility, and says, "Well, I guess it's true in some way that I am hostile (or whatever)," everybody around him can breathe a sigh of relief. Unconsciousness has now been replaced by a modicum of consciousness, and therefore, hopefully, responsibility. Imagine Saddam saying, "I realize that I am aggressive as much as Bush, and I take responsibility for that." Imagine an abusive male father and husband saying, "I recognize that, although I accuse the rest of you of being lazy and insensitive, I am also lazy and insensitive. And I can take responsibility for that, and for the hurt it has caused you." Now this doesn't have to be guilt-inducing. It's more in the spirit of, I'll join the human race, I'll acknowledge that I have faults just like the rest of you. I apologize for acting like I was above the human condition.

To me, it is the hallmark of integrity, both personally and professionally, to own one's projections, and to be open in principle to owning all of them. This makes a person whole.

I again, hope this was completely relevant - Have A GOOD FRIDAY!!


http://www.g-gej.org/5-2/1996feldhaus.html

[luciole]

There is always someone who is going to uplift you, and there is always someone who is going drag you in the dirt.
There are two sides to the coin.

Integrity is accepting the fact that you go on doing your best even if someone's taking you for the next Messiah, or even if someone else is taking you for the biggest fraud on earth.

Experiencing the paradygm shift is not exactly a fun ride.
It's bumpy, it hurts, you lose some of the people you loved the most along the way,
sometimes you lose yourself,
but hey we signed up for the gig!

I love this forum, it's a great place to be.

Thanks Avalon. Thanks Bill.

It's up to everyone of US to make this a great experience!

[An Cailleach]

My mother taught me early on: "when you don't like someone, it's usually because they represent something within you, that you don't like about yourself." I grappled with this forever, but nevertheless, endeavoured to apply this principle throughout most of my life and though there were times when I'd be adamantly defiant thinking this or that person is nothing like me.....in retrospect she was absolutely bang on!! So as those situations arose, I became more adept at letting that philosophy be my first port of call.....REFLECTIVITY!! I think that what Bill speaks about is precisely that - it's not intellectual or intuitive, but highly REFLECTIVE RESONANCE.

Just trying to put it all together, as are we all and thought I'd share.
Namaste!

That might explain my squeamish nature around redheads :) I was born a gingertop, and thankfully it morphed itself into dark brown. (still i can grow a ginger beard though lol)

LOL, you wouldn't like me or my daughter then!

[bennycog]

My mother taught me early on: "when you don't like someone, it's usually because they represent something within you, that you don't like about yourself." I grappled with this forever, but nevertheless, endeavoured to apply this principle throughout most of my life and though there were times when I'd be adamantly defiant thinking this or that person is nothing like me.....in retrospect she was absolutely bang on!! So as those situations arose, I became more adept at letting that philosophy be my first port of call.....REFLECTIVITY!! I think that what Bill speaks about is precisely that - it's not intellectual or intuitive, but highly REFLECTIVE RESONANCE.

Just trying to put it all together, as are we all and thought I'd share.
Namaste!

That might explain my squeamish nature around redheads :) I was born a gingertop, and thankfully it morphed itself into dark brown. (still i can grow a ginger beard though lol)

LOL, you wouldn't like me or my daughter then!

If we ever meet. Ill bring some hats :)

[Flash]

- but there's an aspect of human comprehension that is neither intellectual nor intuitive, but is something ese: it just knows. It recognizes. It realizes. It's operating at a higher level than intuition - and at a much higher level than intellect.

Intellect is valuable (like having a fast computer processor) - but is way over-rated. The processor is nothing without good programs. And the processor and programs are nothing without the operator.

The 'operator', of course, is the unharnessed, unencumbered spiritual being. The program is the mind (which may contain all kinds of bugs, viruses, glitches, redundant files, and recurring errors, some of them major): the intellect is the brain (which may be fast or slow).

But the operator is now making the difference. The operator can see - or not see, understand, or not understand. The operator is what we resonate with in people once we transcend all the other stuff that just gets in the way.

To call it how I think it is: the regroupings, the new friendships and relationships, and the re-arranged alliances are manifestations and reflections of us as spiritual beings. Not of anything else.

If this is what I feel this is, this is an enormously important development. It's hard to talk about this in anything other than metaphor. Some of you will grasp what I'm saying - and I welcome your mirroring. :)

Bill, I want to give you a great BIG HUG!!! :grouphug:

What you have said here, I feel is most important in "Knowing" how to respond to the conditions we are entering in during this time, and no time.

I agree, understanding the principle of mirroring, or as Beloved called it, REFLECTIVE RESONANCE, (Loved that Beloved :o), and practising the skills of this in our lives is very helpful. So many wonderful spiritual gifts open up with this, as well as the development of our character, and noble virtues.

Eventually, we learn to see clearly, or see TRUE.

The result of this is we awaken to our Inner Knowing. We begin to awaken to our Self, our True Self, our Spirit Self Within.

This awakening to your Self is probably one of the most effective, graceful, and beautiful gifts we have to offer, first to ourself, and then to each other, and also to the Cosmos.

We live, and act from this True Self, or as Sepia described, "our being".

This being is who we are in a greater reality, and who we are in a greater community. And we bring our greater being into action here in our daily lives.

As you may imagine, this changes everything. Timelines change. Peoples hearts open up, their imagination and inspiration open up. As each one of us lives this way, Humanity creates It's Reality from this larger Reality.

I believe that what you are seeing as a regathering is the natural action of what happens when we begin to live our Knowing.

In fact, there is no separation, since we are all unique expressions of One Being.

When we come home to our Self, we begin to live from this Self.

This Self is unified with the larger One Being of All Life.

We start taking our direction from this larger perspective. And the magnificent intelligence of this One Being then guides us through our inner knowing into the relationships, and actions that express the highest purpose of All Life, or All That Is, of our One Being.

Discover...now...that we are all Radiant Beings living in a Reflective/Responsive Universe. In doing so, See Life reflect your Radiant Self.

I believe this is necessary so we may join the Greater Community of the Cosmos, and live in the Greater Reality of Life.

Wow, this is exactly it. Greater than the intellect, greater than the mind, it is us the Cosmos, represented in individuality.

Access to this "above the mind" seems to be easier when processed through the heart. I mean the physical heart as well as the emotional heart as well as the spiritual heart. In human, we speak litterally of the heart link to the greater.

[Belle]

I was referring to the phenomenon of separation... and the regrouping, in new configurations, of friends, relationships and allies.

Old friends, who I never hurt or harmed, have recently been unable to understand me: and I can't understand them, either.

What I'm saying is that this failure to understand is nothing to do with failure of intellect: it's to do with a disharmony of something else entirely.

We're singing in different keys: talking in different languages: or trying to accompany a piano with uilleann pipes. It's a spiritual mismatch: not an intellectual one.

It's not even about right or left brain: I think there's something completely different going on at the moment, which is gathering momentum and gaining in amplitude.

Perhaps this is what is happening at Avalon at this time. There are so many misunderstandings going on...it's like people are becoming more of who they really are at their core. Facades are dropping away..."niceties" that would soften their words are being left behind as though they aren't really necessary anymore.


- but there's an aspect of human comprehension that is neither intellectual nor intuitive, but is something ese: it just knows. It recognizes. It realizes. It's operating at a higher level than intuition - and at a much higher level than intellect.

Intellect is valuable (like having a fast computer processor) - but is way over-rated. The processor is nothing without good programs. And the processor and programs are nothing without the operator.

The 'operator', of course, is the unharnessed, unencumbered spiritual being. The program is the mind (which may contain all kinds of bugs, viruses, glitches, redundant files, and recurring errors, some of them major): the intellect is the brain (which may be fast or slow).

But the operator is now making the difference. The operator can see - or not see, understand, or not understand. The operator is what we resonate with in people once we transcend all the other stuff that just gets in the way.

To call it how I think it is: the regroupings, the new friendships and relationships, and the re-arranged alliances are manifestations and reflections of us as spiritual beings. Not of anything else.

If this is what I feel this is, this is an enormously important development. It's hard to talk about this in anything other than metaphor. Some of you will grasp what I'm saying - and I welcome your mirroring. :)

I think I understand what you are saying. Though I don't really know what it is or what to call it, I have experienced something like it most of my life and notice that it is happening more often to more people.

A couple of examples:
There have been times I've met certain people for the first time, and yet there was a recognition on both of our parts as though we had known each other for lifetimes. It's like the joy of seeing a very old friend after many many years and knowing the connection is still there...even though I had never met them before. At the same time, some old friends seem like strangers...the face is the same but it feels like they are different somehow.

Since we first met, a long time dear friend and I have been able to talk in a kind of "shorthand". Our conversations can take leaps and bounds in thought and flow in a way that someone observing cannot follow, yet we understand perfectly not only the words but the intent as well.

[Loren]

I think we are inherently born into a world of jealousy , greed and as Sepia says the mud. To be in the world and over come these things is not easy.I may disagree with anything, but respect for it should never be an option. Thank you Bill for a place where I can spread my spiritual wings.

[sepia]

In connection with this, there's a kind of 'separation' happening. I can see it all around. I even talked about this with Kerry two years ago, and since then it has gradually intensified and amplified. You can see it in the YouTube comments on any alternative video you care to pick at random
I haven't seen anything like it before, but it is true. I can't put my finger on it exactly but I believe that it has to do with frequencies or vibrations.

The cream separates from the milk (if the milk isn't artificially treated).

Just a question of different density and nothing wrong with it.
The universal game keeps organizing itself naturally.

vibration - energy - consciousness - a huge dance in all eternity...

Sepia

[Peacelovinman]

Dear Bill

I will always have enormous respect for you and consider it an honour to be invited into your house. I have followed you and Kerry for many years and, although I have not found truth in all information you have brought forward, you guys along with David Icke have been (and continue to be) an enormous help to me during my "awakening".

However...




Furthermore, Bill, you have been silent on the whole Charles situation. I have no idea what to make of it all. The beginning of the video when you interviewed Charles was such an inspiration. "look what we did!" ummmmm......... What did we do? Am I missing something? What's up with all the secrecy Bill?



I believe you have let yourself down over the "Charles" material, Bill. It was introduced by you as possibly the most important interview you had ever done and it created a huge amount of interest and debate. However, it feels like the situation desperately needs some closure in terms of a statement from you. Is there more information to be released? Does Charles have "integrity", a quality you rightly hold in high esteem? Are you distancing yourself from it or standing by its importance?



The sycophants will continue to post without fear. :nod:


There is an element of this that manifests itself from time to time. Who was it who said, "Call no man Master"?

I was one of the original members of Avalon, back in the day! I loved the forum, the quality and diversity of information in the threads was excellent and I ended up meeting with with like minded people in my area. However, I found over time that the quality dropped and so I drifted away. The Charles interview brought me back but, with that situation now seemingly over, the quality again seems to be dropping.

Do you think it would help, Bill, to re-define the purpose of Avalon, as you see it? Is it to usher in positive changes to a world that surely needs change? Is there an agenda to the way this will be done or is the field open for discussion; in other words, is Avalon a forum only for those who share your vision of the future?

Peace and good wishes to you all!

[MariaDine]

Keep up the good humor, I always say, even when «things» get very serious. It keeps «things» in prespective.
Love you all.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfGpVcdqeS0&feature=related

[andrewgreen]

I disagree about lines being drawn. I think its just the world needs trail blazers right now and other people arn't in a position to understand them, yet. Agree respect should be a bare minimum though and exclusion from a positive movement because of a lack of it could be a useful and obviously necessary lesson.

[Bill Ryan]

However, it feels like the situation desperately needs some closure in terms of a statement from you. Is there more information to be released?

I have no more information of any kind. I've not heard from Charles for 6 weeks. As far as I'm aware, he's setting up his own website (which was always the best thing for him to do, and I always fully supported that) - and I've heard nothing to the contrary. I'm waiting for that just as everyone else is.

I think his information was important, and I did all I reasonably could to bring it to the full attention of Avalonians and others. There's still a huge amount of reported data on the forum which has not yet been fully synthesized, and I believe that is going to be done on his new site. But I do not even know the domain name, and I know nothing about the '18' (I was never in that loop). Re the proposed audio interview, he changed his mind about that, and it was never done. This is all I know.

Please note: this is not a Charles thread (there are at least 101 of those already). Please post comments about that material on one of those! Not here. Thanks.


Do you think it would help, Bill, to re-define the purpose of Avalon, as you see it? Is it to usher in positive changes to a world that surely needs change?

That's exactly its purpose. No need for any re-definition. :)

[TigerLilly]

The criterion we use with all members, no matter how longstanding, is that if we had known [ --- insert something new that emerges about this person here --- ] when we'd welcomed them in the first place, we would not have accepted their application, then we may ask them to leave.

Clearly their membership was a mistake - on our part. Remember: this is not a public place. It's a private, invitation-only forum. This is what guarantees and safeguards its very high quality.


When I read this Bill I immediately look around to see who is missing.
I gather from your comments that the missing members have been removed for comments made on other forums?
I agree that change is constant and generally positive, people come and go in our lives and if we are open we learn from every contact.

However I find that I am uncomfortable and sad when people are permanently removed against their will.
I have never thrown anyone out of my house.

[finally there!!!]

hi all
what a great thread bill thanks for starting it!!!

http://youtu.be/I-2i2SR_OsU
i just happened to be listening to this song while reading everyone's inputs.
which are all great i love to see healthy conversation.its good to talk not argue..

anyways love and respect to all

[Jake]

The criterion we use with all members, no matter how longstanding, is that if we had known [ --- insert something new that emerges about this person here --- ] when we'd welcomed them in the first place, we would not have accepted their application, then we may ask them to leave.

Clearly their membership was a mistake - on our part. Remember: this is not a public place. It's a private, invitation-only forum. This is what guarantees and safeguards its very high quality.


When I read this Bill I immediately look around to see who is missing.
I gather from your comments that the missing members have been removed for comments made on other forums?
I agree that change is constant and generally positive, people come and go in our lives and if we are open we learn from every contact.

However I find that I am uncomfortable and sad when people are permanently removed against their will.
I have never thrown anyone out of my house.

There are quite a bit more new members recently than retired members. I think it would be decent at this point of you would consider that anyone who has left Avalon, ULTIMATELY has done so by their own decision or action. There have been times in my life where i had to ask folks to leave based on their behavior, indeed. The Avalon community is a step above the others, and Bill always brings 'the goods'. It is about INTEGRITY.

[Tony]

Dear Bill,
I look forward to further dialogue.

Pie'n'eal

[Leprechaun]

My thoughts on this concur with Bills opening definition of integrity. I think that the principle of integrity us fundamental to open, positive flow of understanding and intent, and believe that this flow ultimately comes from our true self, rather than from the physical. I also believe that in connecting with and being accepting of our higher selves, integrity is a natural corollary. Being true to oneself, in service of others I think is where I see integrity being of particular value.

[Nyce555]

Thanks for inviting me in your house Bill. You are welcome in mine! Respect is key. If a person respects me, then I will give them the utmost respect in return. So I understand if you have to kick a few people out of your house from time to time. It doesn't mean you don't care about that person. It just means that they are not respecting what your are trying to do and sometimes you just have to let that person go. That is with all aspects of life. Some relationships come to an end and you have to say good bye to that person and "love them from afar" Wish them well in their journeys and keep moving down your path. There may be a divide in how people feel about it, but I guess that is just human nature. We will never agree on everrything, but it seems like the majority of folks here at Avalon are very respectful and open minded to all opinions. Keep up the good work!

[Chicodoodoo]

Anyone is free and welcome to say anything they want to anywhere on the internet - but not here.

In Sepia's words, this is my house, and you are all guests, and I value and honor everyone here as long as your integrity is in. If it is breached, I will ask you to leave, and I will make that call myself.

Project Avalon has become much more than just "Bill's house". It's a community. Of course Bill still wants to guide it, discipline it, teach it, help it grow and mature, just as any good parent does with any child. But to what end? Is the objective to produce an independent, autonomous, self-regulating community that can flourish on its own? Or is it to create a dependent, servile, externally regulated "pet" that exists for the pleasure of its owner?

Bill would like members of Avalon to demonstrate a certain degree of integrity, respect, and civility. I strongly suspect most of Avalon would agree with that sentiment. The problem is how to determine what the required standards are, when they have been violated, and how to constructively deal with those individuals that fail to meet the standards.

So far, all of those decisions have been made by Bill. If the objective for Avalon is to become a self-regulating community, we will at some point have to devise a method of making those decisions without Bill's help.

Perhaps it is more appropriate to ask Bill what his objective is for the Project Avalon community. He may have other objectives in mind.

The observation of increasing "separation" may simply be a convenient justification for the culling of "misbehaving" Avalon members. Avalon, like humanity, needs to unite, not separate. Trying to accommodate all voices while not silencing any is a challenge, to be sure. Splintering into like-minded groups is what humanity has always done, to its eternal detriment. Uniting into a single broad-minded group would appear to be the next step of our evolution. Avalon is well along the path to achieving that. Can we do it?

[Bill Ryan]

There are quite a bit more new members recently than retired members.

Yes. Several hundred new members in the last few weeks from twice that number who've applied, and literally a small handful of people we've asked to leave (or who have done so voluntarily). Read the Welcome New Members (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?61-Welcome-New-Members) thread - where all new members post. It's instructive! :)


I understand if you have to kick a few people out of your house from time to time. It doesn't mean you don't care about that person. It just means that they are not respecting what your are trying to do and sometimes you just have to let that person go.

That is with all aspects of life. Some relationships come to an end and you have to say good bye to that person and "love them from afar" Wish them well in their journeys and keep moving down your path.

Thanks - I couldn't possibly have put that better myself.


Bill would like members of Avalon to demonstrate a certain degree of integrity, respect, and civility. I strongly suspect most of Avalon would agree with that sentiment. The problem is how to determine what the required standards are, when they have been violated, and how to constructively deal with those individuals that fail to meet the standards.

So far, all of those decisions have been made by Bill. If the objective for Avalon is to become a self-regulating community, we will at some point have to devise a method of making those decisions without Bill's help.

Not all decisions have been made by me at all. There's a lot that goes on behind the scenes. The moderators PM and e-mail members frequently, and there's a great deal of routine 'walking the beat' activity like that which I don't have time to get involved in. We usually try everything we can before we ask someone to leave. You might be astonished at our patience. :)

When I made the call on several members who we recently unsubscribed, for example, there was a collective massive sigh of relief among the moderators. This is not meant to be unkind - it's simply true. We are united in our views on just about everything.

Our goal is to make this a pleasant, enjoyable, inspiring, informative, educational, fascinating, mutually supportive and uplifting place to be. If some members do not have those goals, then this is not the forum for them to hang out in.



anyone who has left Avalon, ULTIMATELY has done so by their own decision or action.

Amen to that. This is completely true.

[Mike]

Icecold made some interesting points. i would also like to point out though that for every sycophant here there is also a member who see's it as his/her duty to overtly or covertly undermine every post Bill makes, even those that are not controversial. they are so determined not be seen as sycophants that they completely overcompensate, whether knowingly or unknowingly. or they have some other agenda. many will call this "challenging" Bill. i call this obnoxious trolling. you're certainly right when you say integrity is not associated with sycophants. i think you would agree that it is not associated with trolls or spoilers either. healthy dissent is fine, but unhealthy dissent is destructive. those that perpetuate it must go.

i feel i should also point out that Bill has endured heaps of unhealthy dissent from some members for some time, AND THEY HAVE REMAINED MEMBERS. i think the patience he has demonstrated is commendable.

this will likely be seen as a sycophantic post by some, but i don't care. what do i really have to gain from it??? a "thank you" from Bill? a nice gesture, but hardly life altering. as has been pointed out several times, this is Bill's house, his party if you will. would you show up at a party and make yourself at home of a host whose integrity you seriously questioned? would you drink his beer if you doubted his intentions? would you eat his food if you felt he was deliberately misleading, or had serious character flaws? the answer is: only if you're an a##hole. and there are a##holes on every forum, and they need to be purged.

i can't speak for Bill, but i believe his post was partially due to comments made by various Avalon members on the Nexus forum. i hadn't seen these comments until yesterday, but i was surprised. there are certainly some Benedict Arnolds out there, some Bill bashers who shamelessly slip into his party and "eat his food" and "drink his beer". and no, i'm not speaking of all members who participate in both forums, and i'm not badmouthing Nexus here. but i find the comments of some(i won't out them-they've already outed themselves) quite pathetic.

[Bill Ryan]

--------

As this thread has evolved, I think the most important part may be what I was suggesting on my post #63 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?18908-Integrity&p=202359&viewfull=1#post202359) about how come some old, trusted friends cannot understand each other any more, and new alliances are being formed - and the step-back-and-take-a-deep-look at what might really be happening here. It was fascinating to me that this struck a chord in so many people.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?18908-Integrity&p=202359&viewfull=1#post202359

I do think that if we want to surf on the huge wave of all the changes that we'll surely experience the next few years (and are not either wiped out by it or furiously paddling along behind trying to catch up) - this perspective might be valuable. :)

One additionally stated purpose of Avalon might simply be this: to support everyone who feels called to be a constructive part of that change.

[Kimberley]

I second this!! Great thread!!
Much Love to us all!!

Happy Earth Day!! :luv:


Thanks for inviting me in your house Bill. You are welcome in mine! Respect is key. If a person respects me, then I will give them the utmost respect in return. So I understand if you have to kick a few people out of your house from time to time. It doesn't mean you don't care about that person. It just means that they are not respecting what your are trying to do and sometimes you just have to let that person go. That is with all aspects of life. Some relationships come to an end and you have to say good bye to that person and "love them from afar" Wish them well in their journeys and keep moving down your path. There may be a divide in how people feel about it, but I guess that is just human nature. We will never agree on everrything, but it seems like the majority of folks here at Avalon are very respectful and open minded to all opinions. Keep up the good work!

[edina]

Billyjl posted this video "Make of it What You Will" (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?18345-View-of-human-family-tree-material-given-by-charles-to-bill-back-in-2010&p=198747#post198747), from David Icke, in another thread.

It seems relevant here in this discussion. It mirrors Bill's insights beautifully!!!!

One statement David Icke made in this video that stuck with me is "We have to respect every individual's right to come to their own conclusions about life, themselves, and reality."

I've discovered in the journey to discern truth and to know my Self, that once I began to truly trust myself, it became natural for me to know how to trust others. The same with respect, and honor, and even genuine love and gratitude.

When I was in the Air Force, I had a small stint where I was a Leadership School Instructor. One of the main things I learned from this experience is how important it was that our trust, and respect be mutual, or radiant. Moving between us, if possible in all directions.

The more we listen to our inner compass of truth, the more discerning we become.

Knowing is not the same thing as knowledge.

The more we act with trust in our knowing, the stronger we KNOW.

Knowing moves faster than the speed of thought, it is whole and fully integrated. It incorporates information from the whole range of Reality. This is why it is difficult to try to express this into words. Knowing is inclusive to dimensions of Reality that our culture doesn't yet acknowledge, and certainly hasn't a language.

And Knowing is timeless, it moves beyond our conceptions of time. Therefore, when we live from knowing we experience more perfect timing in our lives, what many call synchronicity.

If we are talking, interacting with, relating to someone who is in denial of their Self, and their inner knowing that comes from this Self, they very often become uncomfortable. This denial of our Self, is probably where the shadow selves emerge. Many of the difficulties in our relationships lies with this unconscious action going on amongst our shadow selves.

This is why I said elsewhere, in another forum, that when the experiences happened that many people perceived to be attacks, I perceived to be intense energy. I chose to make good and creative use of this high and intense energy. I stayed with my own negative stuff that bubbled to the surface, and released a lot of conditioning, shadow selves, and stuck places and blockages. This is one of my gains, it was actually quite cool for me, I learned all kinds of things I wouldn't have learned otherwise.

For example, I discovered that often my experience of a person changed when I owned my perception of them. I found that when I chose to change my mind, or my perception of a person, the person literally began to behave differently with me.

Our mirrors show up in our lives out of acts of love.

The psychic, or metaphysical, or hyper-dimensional space between me and the person completely transformed us, both. Very Cool stuff!!!!

This would be a real world example of putting the mirroring principles in action. By owning my own projections, as SEAM very eloquently stated in earlier.
(http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?18908-Integrity&p=202477#post202477)
The experience of knowing is you Know, or you don't. And until you know, you don't know. Sort of like the old adage of the steps to wisdom.

It's important to me to state here, that we all have access to this way of being, and knowing, and the more each of us embraces this, the more every one us will know this for ourselves.

David Icke closes this interview talking about how his head intellect and his heart knowing are no longer in conflict. They once were, however, they now are harmonious and integrated.

This business of integrating the full range of who we are, becoming in integrity with our Selves, is in my opinion, a very important business to be about. And, it is very personal, or unique to each of us.

Here's the link to billyjl's post and the video: Make Of It What You Will (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?18345-View-of-human-family-tree-material-given-by-charles-to-bill-back-in-2010&p=198747#post198747)

Thanks for that post billy!!!! Love and gratitude to all present... :angel:

[gigha]

Bill: Our goal is to make this a pleasant, enjoyable, inspiring, informative, educational, fascinating, mutually supportive and uplifting place to be. If some members do not have those goals, then this is not the forum for them to hang out in.

nuff said? peace and love..xx

[DevilPigeon]

-----

Since I've been browsing here for several months, I've noticed posts on all ends of the spectrum - from the excessively aggressive to the embarrassingly sycophantic - although on the whole, the majority fall within these extreme boundaries.

I agree that the posters that are deemed repeat 'excessive aggressives' should be asked to depart, but I also think that should be the same for the 'sycophants' as well. Neither demonstrate in my mind the values of the forum, especially integrity & honesty.

[Dennis Leahy]

Purges occur for many reasons and they are always justified in some way or another. People do not like dissent and react accordingly.
...
Integrity is not associated with sycophants.
I can tell you that in discussions between mods/admins/Bill, that never has anyone shot up a red flag because of dissent. Dissenters are free thinkers, treasured resources in the community. Without dissenters, Project Avalon would become a crypt for zombies. Dissent isn't just welcomed, it is encouraged. Remember that almost all of us here would be considered as dissenters compared to Joe and Jane Average. Dissent, disagreement, debate are the lifeblood for lively discussion and learning. It's all in the presentation.

A good example of a dissenter dissenting against dissenters is your current thread on Chemtrails (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?18882-The-Real-Story-about-Trails-in-the-Sky). It's good stuff, it's making people think. You don't see any mods rushing in to stifle the dissent, correct?

It may be easy to label someone as a sycophant when they appear amenable, or in agreement. It may also be true that what is being displayed is parallel thinking or synergy or synchronicity. This should not be terribly surprising, that a forum will attract like-minded people, and that a round of high-fives is not necessarily indicative of indiscriminate intellectual conformist behavior. I am at Project Avalon for two main reasons: to learn (and the freethinkers and dissenters certainly supply a good portion of that material), and to find and interact with and plan with and celebrate with like-minded people.

Dennis

[K626]

I tend to be from the relativist camp, there are some terrific posters on here who have a deep and intuitive understanding across a buffet of topics. But I can also see that they have their own specialist areas (sometimes they are unaware of this) and are weaker or 'not fully formed' in other areas. This is me being discerning and that really is the key (for me anyway) on how to get the best out of this 'coming together'.

As my friends on here know, I'd rather most oft make a joke in some debates rather than draw a psychological line under a topic or an opinion (cause I will admit some days I wake up and have changed my mind on certain thing). If I'm not sure or have nothing tangental/new to add, I often rather keep it light than wanting to 'restrain' the 'flow' of a fellow Avalonian...There is a certain kind of art to this that takes time to develop and of course you must also understand your innner motivations (which can be masked by ego or interferance and so on..).

The ones I talk with on PM know that if they really push me, in private I can be more forthright or categorical and my voice has more finality...

That is sometimes not helpful or cohesive on the open board AND it stops me LEARNING.

Things are in flux and at this time in the history of our world and our consciousness it is important to stay OPEN.

love

K

[quench]

Our goal is to make this a pleasant, enjoyable, inspiring, informative, educational, fascinating, mutually supportive and uplifting place to be. If some members do not have those goals, then this is not the forum for them to hang out in.

Mission accomplished! This is by far the best forum on the net in my opinion.

[K626]

-----

Since I've been browsing here for several months, I've noticed posts on all ends of the spectrum - from the excessively aggressive to the embarrassingly sycophantic - although on the whole, the majority fall within these extreme boundaries.

I agree that the posters that are deemed repeat 'excessive aggressives' should be asked to depart, but I also think that should be the same for the 'sycophants' as well. Neither demonstrate in my mind the values of the forum, especially integrity & honesty.

The other thing is that there is a huge gap sometimes in communication when posting on a board, I'd bet anything there would be less dissent and aggresssion in the mix if we all met for a beer.

cheers

K

[DevilPigeon]

-----

Since I've been browsing here for several months, I've noticed posts on all ends of the spectrum - from the excessively aggressive to the embarrassingly sycophantic - although on the whole, the majority fall within these extreme boundaries.

I agree that the posters that are deemed repeat 'excessive aggressives' should be asked to depart, but I also think that should be the same for the 'sycophants' as well. Neither demonstrate in my mind the values of the forum, especially integrity & honesty.

The other thing is that there is a huge gap sometimes in communication when posting on a board, I'd bet anything there would be less dissent and aggresssion in the mix if we all met for a beer.

cheers

K

Good point Sir.

And you're in the seat, seeing as you suggested it! :tea: :party:

[Whiskey_Mystic]

Please indulge me to complain for a moment.

One of my pet peeves is seeing people on other forums complain that they or someone they know was banned from Avalon for disagreeing with the Bill Ryan party line. Especially when I witnessed myself exactly why they got banned. This is a slap in the face to the integrity, honor, and patience with which Bill offers us his coaching. I would never be able to show the kind of restraint that Bill does. I get angry when I see his approach of compassion and warm-hearted engagement be spit on like that. Grrrrrrrr! I have learned a lot from watching his example. I don't always agree with Bill, but his model for communication is a gift. How we say what we say is more important to the building of a higher vibrational community than the actual content of our posts. It is the foundation, in my opinion, and everything else is just details.

So... I invite each of us (me included) to ask before we hit the Post button if we are bringing the vibration of the community up or down with our choice of words. This too is an integrity practice.

Hey mod team, I've been watching you guys and my hats off to you. You're doing great and I know we don't see it all. Good job. Have a carrot juice with ginger:rockon:.

[K626]

One thing we did on a football board I used to mod on was have an amnesty at the end of the season and the posters could vote on 3 people to bring back. The only caveat was if they were banned for racism. Worked quite well.

Food for thought.

cheers

K

[Whitehaze]

It seems to be me that we are entering times where we need to be building bridges and pooling energies. Even the best of friends can have a disagreement or argument, but they do not burn the bridge between them. At the end of the day we all want and envision the same thing. There are times, more often than not, where I personally do not agree with anothers point of view or comment. However, I respect that persons view and their comments simply because it belongs to them.

If we are truly spiritual, enlightened, awakened beings then perhaps we should act accordingly so. For it is these type of beings who would find solutions to whatever problems they encounter. Even disagreements and arguments can be resoloved between people, and goals met. If humanity continues to burn the bridges between themselves, then we are most certainly lost.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TB3RBxnn98g

[Ivanhoe]

Bill,
I don't post often, I prefer to watch, it's my nature.
I agree with your post and appreciate your honesty and forthrightness.
I honor honesty and integrity perhaps the most of all the adjectives we bestow upon ourselves and others. It is to me the only way to live.
I don't have a house to invite you to, I'm stuggling to survive, but I'd love to buy you a beer or three down at the bar. :yo:
Peace to you.

[Chicodoodoo]

Not all decisions have been made by me at all. There's a lot that goes on behind the scenes. The moderators PM and e-mail members frequently, and there's a great deal of routine 'walking the beat' activity like that which I don't have time to get involved in. We usually try everything we can before we ask someone to leave. You might be astonished at our patience. :)


That is really encouraging to hear, and very much to Avalon's credit. The policing of the forum should be a group effort. The power to silence an individual voice should not reside in the hands of a single person.

[Inelia]

Integrity. Yes, in my opinion, this is very important for anyone who want to accelerate their personal expansion of awareness, growth, abilities, and ascension.

Integrity, to me, means to be complete. Whole. It means being one's true self at all times, without exception, without white lies, or big lies, or irrelevant lies, without pretense toward oneself or others. It's hard. But it IS doable.

Thanks Bill for this important thread.

[manny]

Does the separation occur between the "knowing" and "unknowing"?
I mean people, not the concept, those that innately "know" and those that don't yet.
I'm not speaking of a new elitism, I know perfectly well where I fall. No illusions there. But I am trying to understand where the separation takes place.
Thanks for the thread Bill.
jjl you fall where you are at.
as we all do.
enjoy what you have.;)

[Brodie75]

I too have experienced a purge of old friends about 5yrs ago and to be honest
it wasn't really a hardship. What i mean by that is it felt right, natural and
needed.
Another symptom if you could call it that is persistent dreams about my old
friends. Again this is probably just natural.
I do miss them from time to time but know they will make their own journey.

[Janos]

------

Dear All:

The best definition of integrity I ever heard is when one's beliefs, actions and statements are all in alignment.

With integrity, there is no two-facedness, no camouflaged position, no variance of view depending on the circumstances or who one is with.

Or what forum one posts on.

Bill,

I’ve not posted here on Avalon in quite a while. I’ve been extremely busy lately with helping get the Fukushima info videos out, (Nexus Community Japan Updates) and honestly, haven’t even kept up with a fraction of the threads I usually do on Nexus, much less had a chance to see what’s going on here at Avalon.

And when something IS brought to my attention RE:Avalon, it seems to always be negative.

Rarely has there been anyone as vocal as I in regards to ‘keeping the peace’ between Avalon and Nexus. (I’m not going to bother with links, as anyone who has even been paying a cursory amount of attention the past few months between the two boards should know what I’m talking about here…)

I’ve tried to ‘hold a space’ for us to all meet in the middle, as friends and kinspeople should.

That has been increasingly difficult as of late.

And I am growing weary.

Do you not realize that banning longstanding and respected members of any community only serves to create hostility at a time when we need to be UNITING into a powerful driving force for positive change, and, as you say, being the change we want to see in the world?

By getting rid of those ‘problem’ people, you are also getting rid of your most creative 10%. What is left, ultimately, will be stagnation.

Some of those whom I’ve just learned today that were banned, have contributed MUCH to Avalon.

So, I am asking you publicly, here and now, to reverse these bans and put an end to this foolishness.

We need to present a united front, not fractured ‘cliques’. If someone wants to leave voluntarily, that is one thing, but forcing someone out is another thing entirely.

And as someone so eloquently quoted, I’ve never had to throw anyone out of my house that I’d invited in. Why are you feeling the need to do so with increasing frequency?

Respectfully,

Janos

[Hervé]

--------
As this thread has evolved, I think the most important part may be what I was suggesting on my post #63 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?18908-Integrity&p=202359&viewfull=1#post202359) about how come some old, trusted friends cannot understand each other any more, and new alliances are being formed -

In spite of the communication being unhindered, intellect and intelligence unimpaired… O’ weird.

So… it is happening… that separation. Except that instead of being the usual density settling down of particles from troubled liquid… it’s going through a very high tech, high speed and specialized centrifuge.

I read somewhere that some individuals who are set in a certain frame of mind can’t help but misconstrue into something negative or destructive, anything that’s expressed as positive or constructive.

If one takes such a frame of mind as a specific signature of a vibratory frequency – let’s say socio/psychopathic – it follows that such a signature has harmonics all the way of the frequency scales of densities/dimensions, both directions… as above so below… and corollary.

Hence, one finds these STS/STO energy harmonics from elemental realms up to… who knows where and which realm/density/dimension.

This has been going on for eons, what’s amazing with this place and time is that the masks are falling down as the energies seem to have become “immiscible.”

A good illustration of this would be Duncan O’Finioan’s decision on which side to go with. Spiritual integrity.

[Sierra]

We usually try everything we can before we ask someone to leave. You might be astonished at our patience. :)

When I made the call on several members who we recently unsubscribed, for example, there was a collective massive sigh of relief among the moderators. This is not meant to be unkind - it's simply true.


Not just the moderators, I've been feeling much safer lately lol!


Hey mod team, I've been watching you guys and my hats off to you. You're doing great and I know we don't see it all. Good job. Have a carrot juice with ginger:rockon:.

Hear Hear! Pushing the thank you button is not enough! The mods are doing a WONDERFUL job!

[Belle]

IMO, FWIW, people will be lost to Avalon one way or another, Janos. If the people that have been banned return, some of us will leave. I have spent more and more time lurking rather than signing in lately. It is annoying to be on a thread I enjoy only to have it interrupted by someone who feels they must attack a poster rather than discuss the ideas that are presented. It would be hard to believe that their aggressiveness was not a deliberate personal attack, no matter what their justification for such behavior may be. There is enough of that in the world.

I respect your desire to "hold a space" for all to meet in the middle. Your desire to be a peacemaker is to be commended. Perhaps with time understanding may grow, but the anger and frustrations need to be worked through first.

[manny]

for those that have been removed.
for those that have left.
for those that choose to stay.
for everyone.

it,s your journey.
no matter what happens ,it is your personal journey,
times will be sad,times will be bad,
times will be good,
it,s your experience.
enjoy it.
it,s you that matters.

[Fred Steeves]

------


In connection with this, there's a kind of 'separation' happening. I can see it all around. I even talked about this with Kerry two years ago, and since then it has gradually intensified and amplified. You can see it in the YouTube comments on any alternative video you care to pick at random.

Longstanding friends are parting company. Relationships are ending. New alliances are forming. Lines are being drawn. I do not understand all this yet. But it's clearly happening.



I've been noticing this, to put it mildly. Although I would describe "it" now as RAPIDLY intensifying and amplifying. It certainly is not easy to describe either, sort of like trying to relate a powerful dream to someone else, something usually gets lost in the translation. The closest analogy I can come up with would be how people were compelled in Stephen King's The Stand to gravitate either to Randall Flagg or the old black woman. Like what Bill's alluding to here, there was no intellect involved, people simply did what they had to do.

Don't know if that analogy works or not, but what I can say personally about this is that I see it every day too, although I don't think most people realize it, even though it's happening to everybody. What I do know is that I've already jumped into that great rushing river the Hopi's talk about, and am anxious to see who's gonna be there with me.

Let the four winds blow baby, it's show time.


Cheers,
Fred S.

[Bill Ryan]

And as someone so eloquently quoted, I’ve never had to throw anyone out of my house that I’d invited in. Why are you feeling the need to do so with increasing frequency?


If you're really asking that question, you've either not read or not understood anything I've written.

(And this disconnect of understanding is exactly what I was describing...)

I did not throw the first stones. I'm willing to engage with a extremely wide range of people. Anyone who knows me personally knows this.

But after a while (and often after really quite a long while) - I draw the line at offensive, ignorant, destructive trolling and backstabbing. This offends one of my very core values. To draw that line is not a weakness.

As one member wrote to me (quite true - and this made me laugh): :)




This forum has become a haven and a refuge and is, in my view, only preserved by your willingness to actively guard and protect it. It is your house after all, and if someone repeatedly hoists their muddy boots onto the couch, carves their initials in the table, drinks too much, makes an ass of themselves and absconds with the silverware, then good riddance.

[Corncrake]

'IMO, FWIW, people will be lost to Avalon one way or another, Janos. If the people that have been banned return, some of us will leave. I have spent more and more time lurking rather than signing in lately. It is annoying to be on a thread I enjoy only to have it interrupted by someone who feels they must attack a poster rather than discuss the ideas that are presented. It would be hard to believe that their aggressiveness was not a deliberate personal attack, no matter what their justification for such behavior may be. There is enough of that in the world.'

Belle - I have been feeling just the same. It is hard sometimes not to take certain comments personally and as has been discussed on the forum ad infinitum this is mostly due to the way they are phrased. It is amazing the difference a few smileys or the occasional IMHO can make! In fact there was a whole thread devoted to this a while back.

[Mr54]

'IMO, FWIW, people will be lost to Avalon one way or another, Janos. If the people that have been banned return, some of us will leave. I have spent more and more time lurking rather than signing in lately. It is annoying to be on a thread I enjoy only to have it interrupted by someone who feels they must attack a poster rather than discuss the ideas that are presented. It would be hard to believe that their aggressiveness was not a deliberate personal attack, no matter what their justification for such behavior may be. There is enough of that in the world.'

Belle - I have been feeling just the same. It is hard sometimes not to take certain comments personally and as has been discussed on the forum ad infinitum this is mostly due to the way they are phrased. It is amazing the difference a few smileys or the occasional IMHO can make! In fact there was a whole thread devoted to this a while back.

Hey corncrake can you point me in the direction of some of the posts that have inspired this thread. I've been here intermittently and haven't seen any. Sounds like things are getting crazy again!

[ulli]

What many don't understand is that with increased popularity comes a point where setting limits becomes necessary.
Suddenly one has to think in terms of agenda.
It's time to define one's self....self definition is the new agenda.
Old thought patterns become completely outdated and have to be replaced...what used to be considered cruel suddenly becomes a new form of kindness. Things are now upside down. When this happens it is a sign one is standing at the threshold of a dimensional portal.
Suddenly the phone is ringing 200 times a day and that number was still climbing.
No way can one accomodate every caller...choices have to be made.
All of a sudden one needs explanations about where some of these callers are at with their motivations,
or even in their level of consciousness development.

This is all part of spiritual growth. Here the earlier egalitarianism no longer applies.
All of a sudden people are being judged because of their exaggerated sense of entitlement, where there is no merit.
Why do people feel entitled at all?
Maybe it's because of decades of hearing about human rights,
and no parallel teaching about being considerate, or responsible, or respectful.
Yet all kinds of levels exist in an infinite universe. As one moves from one level to the next there is a painful transition...squeeze of the vortex...
I'm glad and feel priviledged to be allowed to be watching this process, and congratulate Bill for the way he is mastering this new stage of leadership.

[DevilPigeon]

'IMO, FWIW, people will be lost to Avalon one way or another, Janos. If the people that have been banned return, some of us will leave. I have spent more and more time lurking rather than signing in lately. It is annoying to be on a thread I enjoy only to have it interrupted by someone who feels they must attack a poster rather than discuss the ideas that are presented. It would be hard to believe that their aggressiveness was not a deliberate personal attack, no matter what their justification for such behavior may be. There is enough of that in the world.'

Belle - I have been feeling just the same. It is hard sometimes not to take certain comments personally and as has been discussed on the forum ad infinitum this is mostly due to the way they are phrased. It is amazing the difference a few smileys or the occasional IMHO can make! In fact there was a whole thread devoted to this a while back.

Hey corncrake can you point me in the direction of some of the posts that have inspired this thread. I've been here intermittently and haven't seen any. Sounds like things are getting crazy again!

I disagree, I don't see things getting crazier... there'll always be the odd bit of noise, that's expected, but I think of late things have settled.

:)

[Mr54]

'IMO, FWIW, people will be lost to Avalon one way or another, Janos. If the people that have been banned return, some of us will leave. I have spent more and more time lurking rather than signing in lately. It is annoying to be on a thread I enjoy only to have it interrupted by someone who feels they must attack a poster rather than discuss the ideas that are presented. It would be hard to believe that their aggressiveness was not a deliberate personal attack, no matter what their justification for such behavior may be. There is enough of that in the world.'

Belle - I have been feeling just the same. It is hard sometimes not to take certain comments personally and as has been discussed on the forum ad infinitum this is mostly due to the way they are phrased. It is amazing the difference a few smileys or the occasional IMHO can make! In fact there was a whole thread devoted to this a while back.

Hey corncrake can you point me in the direction of some of the posts that have inspired this thread. I've been here intermittently and haven't seen any. Sounds like things are getting crazy again!

I disagree, I don't see things getting crazier... there'll always be the odd bit of noise, that's expected, but I think of late things have settled.

:)

Hey Devil Pigeon! That was my sense too, things seem much more ordered recently to me too. I was just wondering where all of the dissent and aggression was to be found?

[DevilPigeon]

Hey Devil Pigeon! That was my sense too, things seem much more ordered recently to me too. I was just wondering where all of the dissent and aggression was to be found?

Hey Mr54! Ah yes, apologies, just re-read your post. TBH I'm not sure whether the 'dissenting' posts are concentrated in a particular thread or are dispersed... I've not noticed anything particularly untoward recently anyway.

[Mr54]

Belle

'IMO, FWIW, people will be lost to Avalon one way or another, Janos. If the people that have been banned return, some of us will leave. I have spent more and more time lurking rather than signing in lately. It is annoying to be on a thread I enjoy only to have it interrupted by someone who feels they must attack a poster rather than discuss the ideas that are presented. It would be hard to believe that their aggressiveness was not a deliberate personal attack, no matter what their justification for such behavior may be. There is enough of that in the world.'

Belle - I have been feeling just the same. It is hard sometimes not to take certain comments personally and as has been discussed on the forum ad infinitum this is mostly due to the way they are phrased. It is amazing the difference a few smileys or the occasional IMHO can make! In fact there was a whole thread devoted to this a while back.

Hey corncrake can you point me in the direction of some of the posts that have inspired this thread. I've been here intermittently and haven't seen any. Sounds like things are getting crazy again!

I disagree, I don't see things getting crazier... there'll always be the odd bit of noise, that's expected, but I think of late things have settled.

:)

Hey Devil Pigeon! That was my sense too, things seem much more ordered recently to me too. I was just wondering where all of the dissent and aggression was to be found?

Hey Mr54! Ah yes, apologies, just re-read your post. TBH I'm not sure whether the 'dissenting' posts are concentrated in a particular thread or are dispersed... I've not noticed anything particularly untoward recently anyway.

When I think of how things were a while back things seem positively tame nowadays. Can anyone point me in the direction of some of the disrespectful dissenting posts?

[Gaia]

Okay this post has a bunch of nested quotes !I see this with an increasing and worrying frequency......The point of quoting is to give a reference to one's answer but often times you see this kilometric quote and a relatively small addendum from the poster, this makes the reading clumsy and irritating. I'm reasonably certain the reason for the long quotes is laziness by the quoter.

[Mr54]

Sorry about that Gaia! I have no idea how to quote selectively, I always admire people who have the ability to quote multiple posts within their reply! Point taken though, perhaps some practice is required............ Apologies!

[Dennis Leahy]

Can anyone point me in the direction of some of the disrespectful dissenting posts?

Hello Mr. 54,

Can I ask you to take a look at this post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?18908-Integrity&p=202563#post202563) to better explain that dissenting posts are not a problem. If you look on the lower left of each post made by anyone, you'll see a small triangle. Any member can click that if they see a post that they believe should be reported, then the mods and admis look it over and decide if it requires action or just to "let it play out" (no action required.) Some members names get reported a lot, so it is not just the (volunteer, by the way) mods and admins that find some posts disrespectful, mean-spirited, attacking, trolling, etc. Often, if the posts are found to be a problem, they will be edited by a staff member to remove the problem (so it doesn't keep fueling the fire), or sometimes hidden or deleted if particularly nasty or ugly - and the members are informed. In reality, the entire membership can (and many do) moderate the forum by reporting posts. As Jake mentioned earlier, by the time someone is asked to leave or is removed, there is a lot of negative history that eclipses their positive history.

Dennis

[ThePythonicCow]

I'm reasonably certain the reason for the long quotes is laziness by the quoter.
That is not my take. Rather my take is that the forum software makes such selective quoting as you recommend (and as I prefer as well) more difficult.

At this point I would estimate that a substantial majority of members could not easily trim down the nested quotes in the posts just above (without mangling the quoting entirely and confusing things more.)

Occasionally I will go through and mod-edit excessively nested quotes such as above. More frequently, I will go back and fix up the mangled quoting that results from users making a good faith effort to trim down nested quotes. In this case, I will leave the above quoted material as is, since your reply depends on it.

So far, that's the best we can do. If I knew how to program an easier quoting interface so that more ordinary users (not natural born computer geeks such as myself) can quote nicely,, I would. But I don't know how to do that, so far anyway.


Sorry about that Gaia! I have no idea how to quote selectivelyYou are not alone by any means. No apologies necessary. The current forum software makes "nice and pretty" quoting too difficult.

[Gaia]

I'm reasonably certain the reason for the long quotes is laziness by the quoter.
That is not my take. Rather my take is that the forum software makes such selective quoting as you recommend (and as I prefer as well) more difficult.

At this point I would estimate that a substantial majority of members could not easily trim down the nested quotes in the posts just above (without mangling the quoting entirely and confusing things more.)

Occasionally I will go through and mod-edit excessively nested quotes such as above. More frequently, I will go back and fix up the mangled quoting that results from users making a good faith effort to trim down nested quotes. In this case, I will leave the above quoted material as is, since your reply depends on it.

So far, that's the best we can do. If I knew how to program an easier quoting interface so that more ordinary users (not natural born computer geeks such as myself) can quote nicely. But I don't know how to do that, so far anyway.


Sorry about that Gaia! I have no idea how to quote selectivelyYou are not alone by any means. No apologies necessary. The current forum software makes "nice and pretty" quoting too difficult.

I understand what your going thru and the restraint you need to apply when dealing with a lot of these posts.

Personally think your doing a good job, keep it up:)

[Mr54]

Cheers for that Dennis. I must have been avoiding the offending threads as I tend to do if they seem overly tense...........

[Mandala]

On March 5th, I started a thread entitled, “Bill’s House”. I was shocked by the level of disrespect shown by some members. The sense of entitlement was so great that some people felt they could say anything to anyone, even our host.

A copy of the thread follows:

Bill's House
I work with middle school kids and they are sometimes tough to deal with, but as of late, it's been pretty rough around here. My class is a mini-UN, with kids from many different countries, all in the 12-14 age group. They are taught to mediate conflicts for others in a school of 1,600 kids, of the same age.

This is how I feel about Avalon.
I love it and it means a lot to me.

This is Bill's house and he has invited us in, given us a key and use of the grounds. In return, we should be grateful, respectful of other guests, and engage in entertaining, educational and enlightening conversation and debate. Wonderful, engaging, respectful, civil discourse.

Of course we will have disagreements and misunderstandings, but we should approach each other immediately with the problem, attacking the problem not the person.

No games, no mysteries, no long, drawn out mystery-posts with more drama than we even have time to keep up with.

Go to the source first, seek to understand, and then to be understood.

Folks, we need to be a cohesive team more than ever now. We are here to foster an understanding for new people and visitors to our site.

This is an excellent alternative news source and research group, not the latest edition of National Enquirer.

Bill, thank you for my key.

Respectfully, Mandala
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I had the feeling at the time that some did not only “get it,” they didn’t want to “hear it, or get it,” because this didn’t apply to them. The idea of integrity and respect didn’t apply to them because of “imagined entitlement.”

Bill needed to revisit this from his POV, and hopefully, this time people would make the attempt to understand. IIRC, Bill said, this was a conversation we needed to have.

At this time, what are you truly experiencing?

The Shift = To change position, direction, place, or form. It is happening, we are in the process. Notice it in your personal life.

Are you experiencing this change without a conscious effort? I have found for the past years, as many of you have said, old relationships are falling aside making way for new paradigms, thoughts and perceptions.

For myself. this is just happening. Integrity is so important to me, as well as truth, honesty, purpose, peace and human rights. I feel as I could no more change this direction if I put every fiber of my being into trying to make it happen differently. I don't think I could intentionally harm another person. I also find material possessions and things don't hold the value they once did.

I am more at peace than I have ever been in my life. I have never felt more love, and had the intense desire to show respect to all.

This site was the birth of my true awakening, and I love Camelot and Avalon. I also love and respect the people of this forum who come with true intention and purpose of love, integrity and information.

Do no harm,
Peace and love, Mandala

[Chicodoodoo]

I have no idea how to quote selectively, I always admire people who have the ability to quote multiple posts within their reply!

Shortening those long quotes is fairly easy. There's a thread about how to do this.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?15983-Automated-Quotes-you-*can*-edit-them-and-remove-DEAD-TEXT-here-is-how...

[Chicodoodoo]

As one member wrote to me (quite true - and this made me laugh): :)




It is your house after all, and if someone repeatedly hoists their muddy boots onto the couch, carves their initials in the table, drinks too much, makes an ass of themselves and absconds with the silverware, then good riddance.


That is bad behavior! But if you treat every person as a family member, you wouldn't just kick them out of the house. First you try to work with them to see if some learning and adjustments can be made, with the understanding that if that fails, then they will be kicked out of the house! People can be taught.

I guess it's the experience of being a father that reminds me that all of us, at some time or another, have needed a patient instructor to help us understand the error of our ways.

[Kimberley]

For the record IMHO (in my humble opinion) I do not understand why people on this forum have "silly" names like Mr 54??? or DropD, or Icecold and I could go on and on and on... very few use their real name??? What is that all about? I have never understood that. I have been on-line and on chats and forums since the get go. I have always been some form of my real name. What are most of you all hiding from? I have nothing to hide..I am in no fear.. it feels as if you with not real names are hiding something? Or in fear?

I sure hope that you all can see how this fits into this thread of "integrity".

Is it in "integrity" to not show your true self?

Just wondering and questioning out loud!!!

I have nothing to hide just google Kimberley Jaeger thats me
Love to us all in all ways always!!! :love:

And adding this to the mix.. You say integrity I say Bravery whatever... you say two for tea...what ever ???

http://stevebeckow.com/2011/04/archangel-gabriel-now-is-the-time-for-bravery/


Archangel Gabriel: Now is the Time for Bravery
2011 April 22
tags: Archangel Gabriel, Bravery, Marlene Swetlishoff
by chezanni

ARCHANGEL GABRIEL, April 21-28, 2011

Channeler: Marlene Swetlishoff | http://www.therainbowscribe.com

Beloved Ones,

I wish to have discourse on the quality of Love called bravery. This quality requires the ability to know yourself and to walk your talk, even though those around you just cannot resonate with your truth. Stepping into a whole new way of Being requires immense courage and tremendous faith that what you believe in shall come into manifestation. Most of you reading this discourse have demonstrated this quality of bravery time and time again. It takes bravery to continue on your chosen Path and to stay true to this Path when you are not taken seriously by those around you.

It requires dedication and the following of your intuition, for following intuition is looked upon as a practice that is not based on concrete fact and evidence, as coming from your feeling body rather than from the realms of the mind and logic; nevertheless, those who follow their intuitive promptings can attest to having important guidance that proves to be uncanny in its unerring accuracy in the unfoldment of your Path. In these changing times, it takes much bravery just to awaken in the morning and pull yourselves out of bed to begin a new day. Brave it is to do so and to then take on your Earthly roles at the same time as your role of anchoring the Greater Light into the Earth.

This Earth is peopled by Souls who are the bravest of the brave for stepping forth when asked to come forward and step into the most challenging of circumstances ever to befall an Ascending Planet. It requires many skills, talents and abilities for you to weave opposing forces together into a Unity consciousness. It is not easy, we know, and your bravery in the face of all the odds that have been pitted against you is the stuff of legends throughout the Universe. At the core of your bravery lies the most powerful force in the Universe and that is the power of your Love, Love for the Creator, first and foremost, lives within your hearts with the most deeply ingrained intensity and conviction so that each of you are willing to endure whatever it takes to accomplish what was once considered the impossible. You it is who have known that with God all things are possible and so it is.

This quality of bravery is one that will continue to be brought forth again and again in the coming days and it is this quality of bravery that is depended upon in the Heaven Realms. It takes bravery for one to step into their power and their Light and open it to the rest of the World, for this can be frightening for those of you who have never felt the need for the spotlight, or notoriety or fame of their person, for in this day and age, what this stepping forth in this way means is the opening up of your sense of privacy to the scrutiny of the entire World where all is known and sent from one place to another in a nanosecond. This requires bravery to overcome deep seated fears of reprisals and persecutions, for this is what has been experienced by most of you in times past. To radiate your Light and anchor it into the Earth is one thing but to announce it to the World at large is quite another. We salute those of you who have overcome this great barrier to the shining forth of your true selves.

It is now the time to shine forth your Light and be the shining example for the rest of the World. By doing this, you move through old paradigms and help all incarnated Souls to do the same, encouraging them to also set asunder all that no longer works and choose only that which serves their greater good and the greater good of all. By your bravery you encourage others to find new solutions, new ways of interacting with each other, new ways of thinking, being and doing. By your works, they shall know you, Beloved Ones.

I leave you now to ponder on these words.

I AM Archangel Gabriel

[Mr54]

I have no idea how to quote selectively, I always admire people who have the ability to quote multiple posts within their reply!

About time I learned how.


Shortening those long quotes is fairly easy.

Hmmmmm Tricky tricky!


There's a thread about how to do this.

Now that is useful! Many thanks!

[Icecold]

For the record IMHO (in my humble opinion) I do not understand why people on this forum have "silly" names like Mr 54??? or DropD, or Icecold and I could go on and on and on... very few use their real name??? What is that all about? I have never understood that. I have been on-line and on chats and forums since the get go. I have always been some form of my real name. What are most of you all hiding from? I have nothing to hide..I am in no fear.. it feels as if you with not real names are hiding something? Or in fear?

I sure hope that you all can see how this fits into this thread of "integrity".

Is it in "integrity" to not show your true self??

Just wondering and questioning out loud!!!

I have nothing to hide just google Kimberley Jaeger thats me
Love to us all in all ways always!!! :love:

LOL. You have never been the victim of other forum members digging into your private life or information to use against you in an argument?

You haven't lived Kimberley. You will just have to live with people wanting to protect their anonymity. :spy:

The world is not the fairyland some think it is. :flame:

[Sierra]

That is bad behavior! But if you treat every person as a family member, you wouldn't just kick them out of the house. First you try to work with them to see if some learning and adjustments can be made, with the understanding that if that fails, then they will be kicked out of the house! People can be taught.

I guess it's the experience of being a father that reminds me that all of us, at some time or another, have needed a patient instructor to help us understand the error of our ways.

You don't think the Mods and BR have been patient enough with the trolls and thread-nappers? I do. And I must say I am really enjoying the peace, quiet and respect around here. I can hear myself think about the thread/post rather than wishing the obnoxious sob du jour would leave.

It may be boring but I like hearing the grass grow and the birds chirp (baby chickadees out and about driving their parents CRAZY today). :)

[astrid]

i had written a long response to this thread, but somehow words aren't doing it for me much these days.

There just doesn't seem to be words to fit what is currently happening.

I seem to be "thinking" in sounds and light, vibrations now.

I don't really understand it, but i do know its happening.

We are in very magical times.

This clip sums it all up, forget the 2012 title, its not what its about.

Please watch.

Blessings,

A


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_YOG3jMlV4

[Whiskey_Mystic]

That is bad behavior! But if you treat every person as a family member, you wouldn't just kick them out of the house. First you try to work with them to see if some learning and adjustments can be made, with the understanding that if that fails, then they will be kicked out of the house! People can be taught.

I guess it's the experience of being a father that reminds me that all of us, at some time or another, have needed a patient instructor to help us understand the error of our ways.

You don't think the Mods and BR have been patient enough with the trolls and thread-nappers? I do. And I must say I am really enjoying the peace, quiet and respect around here. I can hear myself think about the thread/post rather than wishing the obnoxious sob du jour would leave.

It may be boring but I like hearing the grass grow and the birds chirp (baby chickadees out and about driving their parents CRAZY today). :)

I am a hot head. I have a temper. That's a fact. I try to post responsibly. The day will probably come when I need a course correction. From what I know of Bill, and from what I have seen of the current mod team, I trust that this will be brought to my attention in an appropriate manner and with generously allowing me to save face. Nothing more is needed. I trust that these measures were taken with others. I trust this based on my observations of Bill and the mod team.

No, I'm not sure why I feel like I have to post this, but here it is. :)

[Kimberley]

LOL. You have never been the victim of other forum members digging into your private life or information to use against you in an argument?

You haven't lived Kimberley. You will just have to live with people wanting to protect their anonymity. :spy:

The world is not the fairyland some think it is. :flame:

Hahahah I have been a public figure on commercial radio for more than half my life I am 53 in a week and have been on commercial radio as a voice since 1976.... you think I am in fairyland. hahahhaha Love you!!!

[Davidallany]

when you don't like someone, it's usually because they represent something within you, that you don't like about yourself.
If it's the actions they are doing, then yes. But the reasons why one may not like another is because of social brain washing, through religion, like children being told that a certain ethnic group is less human or more violent because of their genes. Another reason is if one had a direct negative experience with people from a different culture, they would tend to pass judgment on that culture.

[Whiskey_Mystic]

For the record IMHO (in my humble opinion) I do not understand why people on this forum have "silly" names

There are different reasons. In my case, my first name was already taken. Some of us also have investments, careers, or projects that can be damaged by our involvement here. It's not about fear. It's about strategic thinking. Is that really so hard to understand?


I have nothing to hide

Lucky you.


..I am in no fear.. it feels as if you with not real names are hiding something? Or in fear?

Maybe. Maybe not. It is only for me to decide what is the best course for me.



..I sure hope that you all can see how this fits into this thread of "integrity".

Is it in "integrity" to not show your true self?

My true self shines forth as best I can present it. My name has little to do with it.


Just wondering and questioning out loud!!!

Touched a nerve here, too. :) Perhaps you are not aware that you are coming across smug and self righteous. People have different reasons for the choices they make. Not all of us are anonymous because we live in fear or are not willing to stand behind what we say and believe. I'm not trying to be combative. I'm askling you to think about what you are broadcasting. Perhaps you don't have the whole picture.

[Tahi]

i had written a long response to this thread, but somehow words aren't doing it for me much these days.
There just doesn't seem to be words to fit what is currently happening.
I seem to be "thinking" in sounds and light, vibrations now.
I don't really understand it, but i do know its happening.
We are in very magical times.

This clip sums it all up, forget the 2012 title, its not what its about.
Please watch.
Blessings,
A

I was watching this vid before I started reading this thread.

Wasnt going to post till watched your vid Astrid. This answered a lot of questions for me... (last weekend) hadnt expect the thread to move in this direction. So just going with the flow...

Vrp6FNCSDQ8

[Davidallany]

LOL. You have never been the victim of other forum members digging into your private life or information to use against you in an argument?

You haven't lived Kimberley. You will just have to live with people wanting to protect their anonymity.

The world is not the fairyland some think it is.


I have been a public figure on commercial radio for more than half my life I am 53 in a week and have been on commercial radio as a voice since 1976.... you think I am in fairyland. hahahhaha Love you!!!
This is why we are here, to put our guards down, relax and breath. The world has been fed negative thoughts and false affirmations thought of as truth by all groups of people, especially those with influence and power.It's not something trivial, but very dangerous indeed. We are here to stop that, and realize that we are one body, if one of us is hurt it will affect the rest of us directly or indirectly. This predatory tendency among the people is the very thing that prevents awakening. It gives rise to competition, mistrusting and false social behaviour as a protective barrier.Like pretending.

[loveandgratitude]

I LOVE THE NEW BREED OF ANGELS AND HIGH ENERGY PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN ATTRACTED TO AVALON OF LATE. A breathe of fresh air has entered the room. This house seems to be far more peaceful these days. The TROLL ALERT seems to be working for now.
Let us all support each other in our endeavour to learn, grow and evolve rather than what has happened of late by only a few people who enjoyed behaving rudely, attacking wonderful loving people. Let us keep up the good work to keep our house in order, enjoying this Forum and working together to keep this wonderful house a place where integrity abides.

[Belle]

'IMO, FWIW, people will be lost to Avalon one way or another, Janos. If the people that have been banned return, some of us will leave. I have spent more and more time lurking rather than signing in lately. It is annoying to be on a thread I enjoy only to have it interrupted by someone who feels they must attack a poster rather than discuss the ideas that are presented. It would be hard to believe that their aggressiveness was not a deliberate personal attack, no matter what their justification for such behavior may be. There is enough of that in the world.'

Belle - I have been feeling just the same. It is hard sometimes not to take certain comments personally and as has been discussed on the forum ad infinitum this is mostly due to the way they are phrased. It is amazing the difference a few smileys or the occasional IMHO can make! In fact there was a whole thread devoted to this a while back.

Hey corncrake can you point me in the direction of some of the posts that have inspired this thread. I've been here intermittently and haven't seen any. Sounds like things are getting crazy again!

I disagree, I don't see things getting crazier... there'll always be the odd bit of noise, that's expected, but I think of late things have settled.

:)

Hey Devil Pigeon! That was my sense too, things seem much more ordered recently to me too. I was just wondering where all of the dissent and aggression was to be found?

Hey Mr54! Ah yes, apologies, just re-read your post. TBH I'm not sure whether the 'dissenting' posts are concentrated in a particular thread or are dispersed... I've not noticed anything particularly untoward recently anyway.

Wow, go away for a few hours and return to find all of the above!

For clarity, I was addressing the post Janos made about allowing banned posters to return to Avalon in an attempt to bring people together. My comment was intended to point out that some current members would leave if the banned posters returned...due to the aggressiveness of personal attacks on other posters...thus negating his well meaning attempt at healing the fracture.

I have never been personally attacked by anyone on this forum. I seriously dislike reading an interesting thread and having it disrupted by nasty comments...it ruins the flow and makes me think twice about posting my thoughts or questions.

I think Bill and the mods have done amazingly well under the circumstances to make people feel at home and comfortable here. I have ground rules in my home and guests/family/friends all clearly understand the consequence of breaking the rules...if they don't like them, they don't have to come over. Bill's house has ground rules as well, and the consequence of breaking the rules have been made clear.

Whew! I think that covers it. :biggrin:

[Ross]

For the record IMHO (in my humble opinion) I do not understand why people on this forum have "silly" names like Mr 54??? or DropD, or Icecold and I could go on and on and on... very few use their real name??? What is that all about? I have never understood that. I have been on-line and on chats and forums since the get go. I have always been some form of my real name. What are most of you all hiding from? I have nothing to hide..I am in no fear.. it feels as if you with not real names are hiding something? Or in fear?

I sure hope that you all can see how this fits into this thread of "integrity".


In my humble opinion, your post sounds a little to PC, to me, as to why people use other name's AND implying they have something to fear and that they may lack integrity because of it?. That is nonsense IMHO. People use different "handles" in many walks of life.

Musicians
Poets
Writers
Truckers
Forum members, to name some.

I have (to many to count) PM's and E-mails from Members whom 95% sign off with their real names. Many on the forum board, prefer using a "handle" simply because it's different, because they want to, and because its allowed.

Regards,

Ross

[Janos]

And as someone so eloquently quoted, I’ve never had to throw anyone out of my house that I’d invited in. Why are you feeling the need to do so with increasing frequency?


If you're really asking that question, you've either not read or not understood anything I've written.

(And this disconnect of understanding is exactly what I was describing...)

Speaking of throwing stones… that one did not go unnoticed. Nor was it much appreciated.

You sure you really want to go down this road again?

Can you really afford to alienate the people who have tirelessly worked to keep the peace?

Do you really need any further bad press or bad blood between the forums?

I will have you know that bashing of you or Avalon on Nexus has been discouraged in the extreme. We’ve moved on from that a long time ago. Then comes this latest train of drama… And it’s all over the front page of the board again, distracting people from important information.

If you are going to continue to ban people, then as a professional courtesy please ban everyone that’s ruffled your feathers all at once, so we can cope with the 3 or 4 weeks of fallout it will invariably bring at Nexus, and get back to discussing real and important business that affects every man, woman, and child on the planet.


I did not throw the first stones. I'm willing to engage with a extremely wide range of people. Anyone who knows me personally knows this.

Whether you threw the ‘first stones’ or not is unknown to me. What is known to me is that you insist on continuing to throw them. This does not speak well for someone of your capacity or intellect. You are better than this, sir, and need to stop playing these silly games. Your first response to me was professional and polite. You somehow felt the need to edit it to not be, and *poke* me along the way by insulting my intelligence and making it out like I somehow did not comprehend what you had written.

I asked:


Why are you feeling the need to do so with increasing frequency?

And you replied:


If you're really asking that question, you've either not read or not understood anything I've written.

(And this disconnect of understanding is exactly what I was describing...)

I am asking that question as it seems like either hundreds of members, the vast majority of which whom were Avalonians in good standing, along with nearly the entire mod team (minus 1?), chose to depart from here, some voluntarily, some involuntarily.

In all my years upon years of being a member of, and moderating/administrating forums, I’ve never run across that kind of egress from anywhere.

Are people who have been respected here really ‘crossing the lines’?

Now, either all those people who have left or were made to leave were somehow cursed with some rare and strange affliction causing them to go insane all at the same time…

Or you’ve changed somehow.


But after a while (and often after really quite a long while) - I draw the line at offensive, ignorant, destructive trolling and backstabbing. This offends one of my very core values. To draw that line is not a weakness.

That is understandable and expected. Few will truly criticize that. There are always a few who are there just to cause problems, but I do not think that those who have been banned recently are among those.

Folks like Goldenyears, Modwiz… are you kidding me?

You have in the past stated that you wanted to make this a ‘safe’ place for people.

Often, ‘safe’ = sanitised = stagnant.

I highly doubt you want an entire forum full of ‘me too’ers’.


As one member wrote to me (quite true - and this made me laugh): :)

This forum has become a haven and a refuge and is, in my view, only preserved by your willingness to actively guard and protect it. It is your house after all, and if someone repeatedly hoists their muddy boots onto the couch, carves their initials in the table, drinks too much, makes an ass of themselves and absconds with the silverware, then good riddance.

Be careful how far you go with that ‘Dictator of Light’ mentality, or ye just may find yourself alone in a crowd of people not worth talking to. Tend carefully to that discordant 10%. It’s where the growth and real innovation always lie.

I truly wish you alll the best, whether you believe it or not, Bill.

If I didn't, I wouldn't have spent all the time I have trying to bury the hatchet between the two boards. If I were you, I'd find out who your friends TRULY are, and fast. Friends aren't afraid to call a spade a spade, and oft will tell you what you NEED to hear, not what you WANT to hear.

All the best,

~Janos.

[Davidallany]

In my humble opinion, your post sounds a little to PC, to me, as to why people use other name's AND implying they have something to fear and that they may lack integrity because of it?. That is nonsense IMHO. People use different "handles" in many walks of life.

Musicians
Poets
Writers
Truckers
Forum members, to name some.

I have (to many to count) PM's and E-mails from Members whom 95% sign off with their real names. Many on the forum board, prefer using a "handle" simply because it's different, because they want to, and because its allowed.

Regards,

Ross
It all depends on intentions. Thoughts make the world seems very real.

[Davidallany]

I think, that there is no need to attack others, if we don't agree with an opinion then we simply state so, politely. Imagine that the person you are addressing is in front of you physically. Treat others without abuse, sarcasm, belittling or inferiority. We are all on this forum to understand in a relaxed, and non-threatening fashion. We are not here to injure, intimidate, bully or retaliate. Let it all go and focus on what's important, we are brothers and sisters in a village cooperating with each-other, supporting each-other and sincerely striving to help all.

[GaiaJeanie]

What I attempt to apply re the meaning of Integrity is the art of grace and diplomacy when confronted.

[GaiaJeanie]

wow - this is some heavy debate that is happening here! I haven't been a member long and am still on provisional, but as for a debate on integrity, what I see here is quite discerning. I will however add I am a little dismayed that there is a joust in session in Avalon!!!!!
Words can cause far more damage than spears and lances. Take time to chill out guys for we are all of the same mould.

[Feren]

We need to understand others; we need to be thoughtful.
I've had, more than once, the need to show people the way out of my house. Doing it, I've been judged both as a fair man and as a "psycho". But I did do what I had to do according to my principles.
But it is not true, in my humble opinion, that anyone should be let in.
There are inferior and superior. No matter which one you are, you won't let the other in --that's how I understand the difference Bill was talking about.

[Chicodoodoo]

You don't think the Mods and BR have been patient enough with the trolls and thread-nappers?

I really can't say, as I'm not privy to most dismissals and the related things that go on behind the scenes. That in itself is a danger (the lack of transparency) that Avalon witnessed to some extent with the last blowup of the moderator team that went to the Nexus forum. I've only witnessed two member dismissals, and both occurred quickly for little apparent reason. Neither appeared to have anything to do with trolling or thread-napping, as far as I could tell, but like I said, my perspective is limited as these actions are not readily reviewable by the general Avalon membership.

I would say Avalon is a great forum, with much credit due to Bill Ryan, but those that might offer a dissenting opinion to mine no longer have a voice here. It would be useful if all members that were dismissed had the opportunity to leave a final post. I bet that would be quite an interesting thread as well as a valuable learning tool for everyone.

[Sierra]

I am a hot head. I have a temper. That's a fact. I try to post responsibly. The day will probably come when I need a course correction. From what I know of Bill, and from what I have seen of the current mod team, I trust that this will be brought to my attention in an appropriate manner and with generously allowing me to save face. Nothing more is needed. I trust that these measures were taken with others. I trust this based on my observations of Bill and the mod team.
No, I'm not sure why I feel like I have to post this, but here it is. :)

I quite agree with your observations about Bill and the mod team. Nothing more is needed, indeed. I am confident the mod team would treat me with respect AND step in quickly if I lost it and started flaming and insulting people, no need to humiliate myself any longer than I absolutely have to. I trust them too. I have never seen you lose your temper Whiskey Mystic lol and I've seen lots of your postings and you seem like a sweetie to me. I am sixty-two and from hard won experience, it DOES get better with the ****ing temper. Sigh. Dramatically leaning on cane.

When I was 22 I was at a Christmas social event and everyone was to stand up announce their name and describe what they do. I was trapped in a dysfunctional family situation and this was well known. When it was my turn, I stood up and (my spiritual name at the time with that group was L----) and said, "My name is L----, I live at home with my family and I practice the art of patience." There was a dead silence for awhile after I sat down and then the room broke up. Spirit was there. I think if you state your spiritual purpose (even by accident), by the speaking, the purpose shines through, people can see the that the goal intensely desired by this spirit mucking about in the mud is the attribute of patience and it sets you free to laugh your head off... I hope that made sense. Temper patience patience temper. All the same.

Don't know why I shared that either Whiskey ... :tea:

I'm a firm believer in saving face myself... so much easier on the complexion don't you think? :hippie:

Rock On Whiskey Mystic :rockon:

[Davidallany]

There are inferior and superior. No matter which one you are, you won't let the other in --that's how I understand the difference Bill was talking about.
Hi Feren, try to look at it not in term of inferior and superior, but in terms of where your thoughts are coming from, more precisely what channels of energy are present. It's a matter of waking up and realizing what one really is, why one feels a certain way, who is typing words, and who is looking at the computer screen?
Because this and other places are sanctuary for those awakened, or vibrating at other frequencies, or experiencing specific energies, it's hard for those with different vibration to get it, and you feel energy drain when trying to say anything to the ones with different energies. So they get confused. I can see this clearly, it's as though we are in different dimensions.

[Calz]

You don't think the Mods and BR have been patient enough with the trolls and thread-nappers?

I really can't say, as I'm not privy to most dismissals and the related things that go on behind the scenes. That in itself is a danger (the lack of transparency) that Avalon witnessed to some extent with the last blowup of the moderator team that went to the Nexus forum. I've only witnessed two member dismissals, and both occurred quickly for little apparent reason. Neither appeared to have anything to do with trolling or thread-napping, as far as I could tell, but like I said, my perspective is limited as these actions are not readily reviewable by the general Avalon membership.

I would say Avalon is a great forum, with much credit due to Bill Ryan, but those that might offer a dissenting opinion to mine no longer have a voice here. It would be useful if all members that were dismissed had the opportunity to leave a final post. I bet that would be quite an interesting thread as well as a valuable learning tool for everyone.

PMs are private for a reason.

Those that feel the need to troll can easily do so elsewhere.

I personally appreciate any and all efforts made to keep this forum respectable.

If it degrades into something "less" I (among others) will consider leaving.

[edina]

Janos, thank you for your posts and your efforts for healing, repair and reconciliation.

When I first read this thread I was effusive about it's premise.

Then I logged on to Nexus, only to discover who Bill was actually talking about.

After looking at their posts on the Nexus forum, I've decided that the real reason they were banned is because of their comments at Nexus, about the charging money for the seminar, and their opinions about Inelia and their concerns about how Inelia is affecting Bill. To be honest, and up front, open and direct, ergo, authentic and in integrity, I must say many people have expressed this concern, and I have at times felt it myself.

After learning about who Bill was referring to as "Trolls" and such, I now question the integrity of Bill's motivation for starting this wonderful "Integrity" thread.

I had been under the impression from Bill's comments that we were talking about serious disrupters. It simply would have never occurred to me to ever see Goldenyears, Modwiz and lightblue as trolls.

I love so many of the sentiments and comments expressed in this thread. And, with this new info about who some of these people are who were shown the door, I feel I want to become much more discerning about why I am being "guided" to accept the disappearing of so many members.

It may behoove us to look just a bit deeper to see what is really going on here.

Things are not always as they seem, and deception can take the form of very enticing packages.

We are very often played to our weaknesses. Another reason to become impeccable with our integrity, to our highest Self, and to thoroughly and regularly examine our personal inner motivations of behavior.

In the days to come, our ability to repair and reconcile through our hurt feelings and irreconcilable differences will be vital to our ability to survive and thrive, as communities, in addition to the awakening to our True Self I mentioned earlier.

Bill, with love, will you reconsider accepting Janos, repeated attempts at reconciliation between the two boards?

[Sierra]

You don't think the Mods and BR have been patient enough with the trolls and thread-nappers?

I really can't say, as I'm not privy to most dismissals and the related things that go on behind the scenes. That in itself is a danger (the lack of transparency) that Avalon witnessed to some extent with the last blowup of the moderator team that went to the Nexus forum. I've only witnessed two member dismissals, and both occurred quickly for little apparent reason. Neither appeared to have anything to do with trolling or thread-napping, as far as I could tell, but like I said, my perspective is limited as these actions are not readily reviewable by the general Avalon membership.

I would say Avalon is a great forum, with much credit due to Bill Ryan, but those that might offer a dissenting opinion to mine no longer have a voice here. It would be useful if all members that were dismissed had the opportunity to leave a final post. I bet that would be quite an interesting thread as well as a valuable learning tool for everyone.

Oh Gawd Chic lets not go through THAT again whine ... Pleeeeeez, let it be behind the scenes let it. The ones I saw get dismissed were people that trolled and kidnapped threads to have a fight. Or kept going on and on off the thread's purpose. Or were chasing people from thread to thread to hound and bully them. Or were insulting over time to a lot of people. Or egging fights on. The mods at that time were doing nothing about it. It was pretty scary watching the action. I did not like it and was dismayed that this was what the site was about or so it seemed at the time.

And that is not why they left to go to the Nexus forum. They were kicked off Avalon for pretty serious offenses. People were in the mods room that had no business being in the mods room. People were showing by their own words they possibly had access to others Private Message records stored in the database. People were being thrown off Project Avalon by admins losing their tempers. And it went on for weeks. And then the good byes you desire to be repeated again, went on for days I repeat DAYS, while the banners across the threads trumpeted the new site and just trot over to Nexus if you want to see what respect the attributes of patience and generosity receives over there.

I swear, if I heard the phrase, "a real man" uttered in breathy reverential tones with heaving bosom one more time, I was going to start screaming and ripping heads off dolls.

No offense Chic but I'd rather not go through that again.

Sierra :hippie:

[sandy]

WOW!!

This is all to sad, especially when there is already so much dissension in the world. I cannot understand the rational for what Avalon is doing regarding the membership>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>members wanted who have a certain mindset, values, beliefs, frequency, etc. those who differ should check elsewhere???

Stop and think what that is saying!!!!!

This is not a house with guests, this is a forum. It is public, it is not a private home. All can read it so if you insist it is a home then one must be living in a glass house for all to see whether they are invited in or not. We all know what they say about people in glass houses.

Integrity is nothing unless intent is included. IMHO one should check to ensure that intent and integrity are aligned. Again I speak of hidden agendas that one may not even know they have unless they are brutally honest within themselves about where they truly are coming from. This means checking ego and spirit and more often than not, ego leads the way in getting some perceived personal need met.

A personal example of my post and personal intent >>>>>>>>>>an aching heart, a lonely person wanting someone to see that it is my heart and humanness that is hurting and for this to be recognized by those I love>>>>>not happening so I post here to reach out and not be alone. However if your compassion comes from your head and not your heart then the war of words begins.

Thus I will reiterate my opinion on Integrity. True Integrity is not there unless one has defined clearly and honestly their individual intent behind their actions.

We are all just trying to evolve the best way we momentarily know, we are learning to take personal responsibility for this and to have the integrity to stop pointing fingers at those we perceive are barriers to our personal evolution.

[Feren]

There are inferior and superior. No matter which one you are, you won't let the other in --that's how I understand the difference Bill was talking about.
Hi Feren, try to look at it not in term of inferior and superior, but in terms of where your thoughts are coming from, more precisely what channels of energy are present. It's a matter of waking up and realizing what one really is, why one feels a certain way, who is typing words, and who is looking at the computer screen?
Because this and other places are sanctuary for those awakened, or vibrating at other frequencies, or experiencing specific energies, it's hard for those with different vibration to get it, and you feel energy drain when trying to say anything to the ones with different energies. So they get confused. I can see this clearly, it's as though we are in different dimensions.

Hello, David:
Thanks for your generous comment.
This is my opinion: there are many frequencies. Those awakened are indeed vibrating at other frequencies. "Awakeness" or "awareness" is just a word for what you --and I, indeed-- value as superiority of vibrations. There are many levels below and above us.
In the end I think we agree. It is just a matter of words.

[Calz]

WOW!!

This is all to sad, especially when there is already so much dissension in the world. I cannot understand the rational for what Avalon is doing regarding the membership>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>members wanted who have a certain mindset, values, beliefs, frequency, etc. those who differ should check elsewhere???

Stop and think what that is saying!!!!!

This is not a house with guests, this is a forum. It is public, it is not a private home. All can read it so if you insist it is a home then one must be living in a glass house for all to see whether they are invited in or not. We all know what they say about people in glass houses.

Integrity is nothing unless intent is included. IMHO one should check to ensure that intent and integrity are aligned. Again I speak of hidden agendas that one may not even know they have unless they are brutally honest within themselves about where they truly are coming from. This means checking ego and spirit and more often than not, ego leads the way in getting some perceived personal need met.

A personal example of my post and personal intent >>>>>>>>>>an aching heart, a lonely person wanting someone to see that it is my heart and humanness that is hurting and for this to be recognized by those I love>>>>>not happening so I post here to reach out and not be alone. However if your compassion comes from your head and not your heart then the war of words begins.

Thus I will reiterate my opinion on Integrity. True Integrity is not there unless one has defined clearly and honestly their individual intent behind their actions.

We are all just trying to evolve the best way we momentarily know, we are learning to take personal responsibility for this and to have the integrity to stop pointing fingers at those we perceive are barriers to our personal evolution.

You know ... those on "the other forum" are our friends.

We may disagree about some things ... but not so much.

I came here with resonance and agreement with "camelot".

Can we ***PLEASE*** remember the base we have been formed from???????

I share the respect for nexus members as I do avalon ... in most cases that overlaps.

Let us not forget.

[Davidallany]

This is not a house with guests, this is a forum. It is public, it is not a private home.
Hi Sandy, true it's a forum, but it's a private forum, it is no public, members are chosen by invitation through other members, special events and special consideration.
Here is what the creator of this forum says:
Clearly their membership was a mistake - on our part. Remember: this is not a public place. It's a private, invitation-only forum. This is what guarantees and safeguards its very high quality.
My best

[Janos]

Yes, they are our friends. In fact, in many cases, they are us. There is no reason for members of the same source tribe to be divided.

In uniting, we give of ourselves to become something greater than we are individually. A united whole, that has focus and strength.

I have full confidence that we will see this through, and we shall be all the stronger for it.

All the best,

~Janos

[Davidallany]

Hello, David:
Thanks for your generous comment.
This is my opinion: there are many frequencies. Those awakened are indeed vibrating at other frequencies. "Awakeness" or "awareness" is just a word for what you --and I, indeed-- value as superiority of vibrations. There are many levels below and above us.
In the end I think we agree. It is just a matter of words.
Hello Feren, it is true, they are just that.

[loveandgratitude]

WOW!!
We are all just trying to evolve the best way we momentarily know, we are learning to take personal responsibility for this and to have the integrity to stop pointing fingers at those we perceive are barriers to our personal evolution.

Hi Sandy
What you say is correct but there as those that want to stop the evolution of people and disrupting this forum and run amok. Disrespecting, hurling abuse, insults at good and wonderful people. Chasing people from thread to thread refuting everything that individual had to slay with more taunts, and insults. This cannot be tolerated in a place where people share their hearts, opinions and insights. This must be a safe place for advanced people to express themselves without fear.

Really this is a case of school yard bullying. There are many laws about this type of behaviour. Now there is internet bullying. It cannot be accepted as the norm. As a society we must have rules of conduct, ways of respecting individuals without agreeing with everyone's views. If someone is behaving badly then it is OK to point a finger and point out the bad behaviour. This happens in all societies.

[Chicodoodoo]

They were kicked off Avalon for pretty serious offenses.

No offense Chic but I'd rather not go through that again.

What we are seeing now may be different. People may be getting the boot for political or ideological reasons, which are not serious offenses. I just learned that Modwiz and Goldenyears have been unsubscribed:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?18970-Magna-Cartas-and-stuff

This is rather shocking to me, as I don't recall ever seeing any bad behavior from these two on the forum.

And no offense taken.

[Bill Ryan]

---------

Dear Friends:

A few people posting on this thread have completely missed the point.

I suggest that that makes the point.

[sandy]

Dear Daviddallany,

I am of the understanding that the public can view Avalon so If I am wrong then my error. I know that only members can post etc but that those who want to check out much of Avalon's forum can read much (not all) of what is posted. This is my understanding and where I was coming from with the glass house analogy.

Please let me know if this is not true. Thank you for your response:)

[ThePythonicCow]

I am of the understanding that the public can view Avalon so If I am wrong then my error. I know that only members can post etc but that those who want to check out much of Avalon's forum can read much (not all) of what is posted.
What you say is correct. The posts on most of the forums on Project Avalon can be read by anyone on the web.

[sandy]

Dear Bill,

I went back and checked your first post. If I understand what I read you said that if you had known ( something new emerges ) after inviting someone into your home and what emerges after the fact, then you would not have been initially invited and that invited quest may be asked to leave.

Is that your point as the only other point I read I believe came from Sepia...........again maybe I read it wrong. I would appreciate it if you could clarify your point again. I know from being a trainer all of my career that often it is important to say things many different ways in order to help all the audience hopefully hear what you are trying to say. Learning modalities are different for individuals, as I'm sure you know.

If I don't understand then maybe I need to hear it put another way. Hopefully you can accommodate this.

[skippy]

uRQnrY5V-rY

[sandy]

WOW!!
We are all just trying to evolve the best way we momentarily know, we are learning to take personal responsibility for this and to have the integrity to stop pointing fingers at those we perceive are barriers to our personal evolution.

Hi Sandy
What you say is correct but there as those that want to stop the evolution of people and disrupting this forum and run amok. Disrespecting, hurling abuse, insults at good and wonderful people. Chasing people from thread to thread refuting everything that individual had to slay with more taunts, and insults. This cannot be tolerated in a place where people share their hearts, opinions and insights. This must be a safe place for advanced people to express themselves without fear.

Really this is a case of school yard bullying. There are many laws about this type of behaviour. Now there is internet bullying. It cannot be accepted as the norm. As a society we must have rules of conduct, ways of respecting individuals without agreeing with everyone's views. If someone is behaving badly then it is OK to point a finger and point out the bad behaviour. This happens in all societies.

Dear LovingandGratitude,

Thank you for your response. I acknowledge that there are bully's everywhere in the world and the societal way you choose to deal with them is okay for you.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


uRQnrY5V-rY


Awwwwwwwwwww thanks Skippy :)

[Hervé]

If I don't understand then maybe I need to hear it put another way. Hopefully you can accommodate this.

Hi Sandy,

I am not Bill but it seems to me that what Bill is referring to is this:



I was referring to the phenomenon of separation... and the regrouping, in new configurations, of friends, relationships and allies.

Old friends, who I never hurt or harmed, have recently been unable to understand me: and I can't understand them, either.

What I'm saying is that this failure to understand is nothing to do with failure of intellect: it's to do with a disharmony of something else entirely.

We're singing in different keys: talking in different languages: or trying to accompany a piano with uilleann pipes. It's a spiritual mismatch: not an intellectual one.

It's not even about right or left brain: I think there's something completely different going on at the moment, which is gathering momentum and gaining in amplitude.


Hence my post: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?18908-Integrity&p=202632&viewfull=1#post202632

which seems to have gone above about everybody's head or else I am totally off the mark.

Unless it is another example of this:

---------
Dear Friends:

A few people posting on this thread have completely missed the point.

I suggest that that makes the point.

[TigerLilly]

WOW!!
We are all just trying to evolve the best way we momentarily know, we are learning to take personal responsibility for this and to have the integrity to stop pointing fingers at those we perceive are barriers to our personal evolution.

Hi Sandy
What you say is correct but there as those that want to stop the evolution of people and disrupting this forum and run amok. Disrespecting, hurling abuse, insults at good and wonderful people. Chasing people from thread to thread refuting everything that individual had to slay with more taunts, and insults. This cannot be tolerated in a place where people share their hearts, opinions and insights. This must be a safe place for advanced people to express themselves without fear.

Really this is a case of school yard bullying. There are many laws about this type of behaviour. Now there is internet bullying. It cannot be accepted as the norm. As a society we must have rules of conduct, ways of respecting individuals without agreeing with everyone's views. If someone is behaving badly then it is OK to point a finger and point out the bad behaviour. This happens in all societies.

I agree that the behaviour you describe is unacceptable.

The problem here is that Modwiz and Goldenyears have never behaved badly on this forum, their contributions were wise and valuable, their crime appears to be that they have criticised Inelia at Nexus.

Much as I admire gallantry I am sure Inelia can stand up for herself, especially as I am told that she has special powers!

[sandy]

If I don't understand then maybe I need to hear it put another way. Hopefully you can accommodate this.

Hi Sandy,

I am not Bill but it seems to me that what Bill is referring to is this:



I was referring to the phenomenon of separation... and the regrouping, in new configurations, of friends, relationships and allies.

Old friends, who I never hurt or harmed, have recently been unable to understand me: and I can't understand them, either.

What I'm saying is that this failure to understand is nothing to do with failure of intellect: it's to do with a disharmony of something else entirely.

We're singing in different keys: talking in different languages: or trying to accompany a piano with uilleann pipes. It's a spiritual mismatch: not an intellectual one.

It's not even about right or left brain: I think there's something completely different going on at the moment, which is gathering momentum and gaining in amplitude.


Gee Thanks Amzer zo,

If this is the point Bill was referring to then I missed the point by referencing his first post. Thank you for clarifying this for me. I do hear what Bill is saying in this post you quoted.

I sure don't agree with this perception. Just because there is a lack of understanding one another doesn't mean we may put it down this phenomenon of separation. This is what is happening all around us and to go with this flow here at Avalon instead of agreeing to disagree creates continued division in the world versus Unity and recognizing the "Oneness of us all"

[Hervé]

Gee Thanks Amzer zo,

If this is the point Bill was referring to then I missed the point by referencing his first post. Thank you for clarifying this for me. I do hear what Bill is saying in this post you quoted.

I sure don't agree with this perception. Just because there is a lack of understanding one another doesn't mean we may put it down this phenomenon of separation. This is what is happening all around us and to go with this flow here at Avalon instead of agreeing to disagree creates continued division in the world versus Unity and recognizing the "Oneness of us all"

Hi Sandy,

It seems to me that this is something beyond a perception because in spite of high intellect, high intelligence, high education, psychic/sensitive abilities, etc... along with excellent communiction skills and abilities: no one gets across to the other despite being long time friends.

High weirdness I'd say.

[butcherman]

Thank you Bill message understood, in the few weeks that i have been here i have enjoyed the the general vibe there will always be souls that i resonate with and others that i will disagree with good honest people all holding an alternative view point our upbringing and our future. thank you for letting me be part of it.

regards


Butcherman

[Whiskey_Mystic]

Has it occured to you guys that Bill started this thread to discuss integrity? Does it have to be some backhanded comment and petty attack on someone else? All I saw here was an attempt to talk about integrity. I didn't read anything else into it. I haven't been to the Nexus. I'm just saying if Bill wants to have a talk about integrity, communication issues, and shifting energy, I don't see any need for that to be about "Bill was attacking this person over here on this other board." Projection? I thought we were just having a talk about integrity.

If Eckhart Tolle starts talking about lies and truth-telling, is that also going to be an obvious attack on someone somewhere too? Unless Bill wants to actually call someone out here, I'd like to keep talking about the nature of integrity. Anyone?

edit- By the way, Bill, I don't think I understand what you're talking about with the seperation energies. It sounds interesting, though. Let's explore!

2nd edit- Oh wait. I just got it. I'm slow.

[The One]

A single lie destroys a whole reputation of integrity

[Icecold]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvkCEEj4I2s





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMYYOXTuUeQ

[Carmen]

I haven't read all the posts on this thread, but integrity, being consistently truthful, open and honest is an indicator of an evolving soul. An evolving soul does not need reminders or rules of behavior, they are built-in, automatic. Also, the evolving soul, and by evolving I mean open minded, loving, accepting as opposed to aggressive, judgmental, close-minded, is not two-faced. Two faced, is someone who has a wonderful loving up front personality, but when you scratch the surface in getting to know them, you find an ugly can of worms stuffed down deep inside of them.

The increasing energy on earth the last decade has forced emotionally 'stuffed' people to let it out to be cleansed and healed. Secrets are coming out all over the earth, from personal to governmental.It's part of the healing.

[mondaze]

i can understand that if people, no names needed, post one thing on here and another at another place, this could appear disingenuous if taken out of context. We as human beings do this all the time in the real world. we naturally tailor our words to fit the audience. So hard as it may be to accept, i think if we dont want to hear bad things about ourselves, we shouldn't listen at the keyhole. love and respect to all!

[manny]

this thread has been open a couple of days now.
so how about moving on to the spiritual vibe.
what is it you are seeing,sensing Bill.
time to start a new thread.;)

[DevilPigeon]

Okay this post has a bunch of nested quotes !I see this with an increasing and worrying frequency......The point of quoting is to give a reference to one's answer but often times you see this kilometric quote and a relatively small addendum from the poster, this makes the reading clumsy and irritating. I'm reasonably certain the reason for the long quotes is laziness by the quoter.

Yes, spot on friend, I'm usually quite diligent with quotes... But sometimes laziness kicks in... :)

[Eric J (Viking)]

---------

Dear Friends:

A few people posting on this thread have completely missed the point.

I suggest that that makes the point.

lol ...

'Sometimes fewer words have more impact than many'

I haven't read all the posts here...but generally I understand the shift that we all are going through. Bill makes a very valid point as I have witnessed here on Avalon for a few years now...it is really profound to say the least. I can feel/understand exactly what Bill is has so eloquently stated.

And please don't take this in the wrong context. I bow to few. But Bill has made a good call here. Call it what you will, a separation/shift/awakening. It is happening and speeding up as we speak.

Anyone going to speculate where we will be in 12 months??

viking

[toothpick]

Sorry for the fake handle.
It,s nothing serious.
It,s just an old mans way of putting a little bit of mystery in his life.
Like we used to do when we were children.
It,s just for a little fun.
You sound very brave, excellant.

toothpick

[Davidallany]

I am of the understanding that the public can view Avalon so If I am wrong then my error. I know that only members can post etc but that those who want to check out much of Avalon's forum can read much (not all) of what is posted. This is my understanding and where I was coming from with the glass house analogy.

Please let me know if this is not true. Thank you for your response
Hello sandy, You are absolutely correct, and I am sorry about the misunderstanding. :)

[jorr lundstrom]

Just a small and perhaps unimportant question. Is it true that Modwiz was asked to

leave Avalon because of something he wrote on another forum?:ranger:

http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt81/sakasvattaja/Babajimbge.jpg

[Gaia]

I do get what he is saying about Integrity. I'm certain that the primary energy that drives Bill Ryan is received messages from people who now see their lives in totally different ways ! And the purpose of Avalon forum is to provide to the visitors the right tools to help them, sending the right message at the right time and finally providing high quality information and contents. I would like to see a subforum that the public could not see to discuss members who are banned.

[Davidallany]

The problem here is that Modwiz and Goldenyears have never behaved badly on this forum, their contributions were wise and valuable, their crime appears to be that they have criticised Inelia at Nexus.
Hello TigerLilly,a beautiful Saturday isn't it? everything is calm and birds singing over here.
Modwize was always kind, polite and courteous in his replies, if he really criticized Inelia then that's out of character and odd. Inelia is a force of light and love, why would anyone criticize her? It's not fair, you know I see many bad and hurtful comments about Bill, Kerry and David Wilcock on youtube, and every time I feel hurt by those comments. These people are dedicating their lives for the sake of Humanity. They deserve better from all of us. I am the first one to blame for not doing enough for them financially, spiritually and physically.

[SKAWF]

so erm.... attempting to get back onto topic.......

the thought occurs that ive gone to great lengths to explain myself to people. right back from when i was a child.
there were points when i became very withdrawn. there was no point in trying to talk to some people.
i DO struggle sometimes to explain some of the things i see.
one knows when one has found the right words for the job though.

even then, when i know that i cant break something down into simpler terms, its still not heard.
i was disturbed to find out that quite a lot of the younger people i meet, dont think they have an imagination!!!!!!!

how am i supposed to convey pattern based concepts to them?

its like a different operating system.

i think 'incompatability' is a suitable term to use.

the phrase 'we are all one' is a nice ideal, but i think its practical life is running out.

now it seems that rather than trying to get the message out to everyone, we should group up and leave the rest to their own path.

to use an analogy, if you want to play football, but none of your friends play, you're quite likely to go out and search for people to play with.
thats the only way you're ever going to get a game on. trying to play with people who dont get it, is a waste of energy.
especially when there are others around who are also looking for a game.

and then we have the 'crabs in the basket' that pull back those who try to escape.

are we happy to sacrifice our own path, for the sake of someone who doesnt even realise there IS a path?

each being is responsible for its own path. no one else. and that includes watching what you say, and where you say it.
actions have consequences dont they.

i dont know the why's of the bans,

i have popped over to nexus, and camelot a couple of times....
as someone else has said on this thread, i saw for myself why some got banned,
but to hear them talk its like butter wouldnt melt in their mouths. i could name a name........ (i did, but i removed it)

he posted on the thread that kerry linked to with regard to the human genetic tree thing.
about how he was so hard done by, just voicing an opinion. read his posts there was a consistant negative tone to them,
yet over there its like 'I would never do ANYTHING wrong', whenever i see stuff like that,
that persons credibilty drops through the floor as far as i'm concerned.

if i reach accord with someone, that person can be sure that my views wont change unless something happens to change the situation.
that comes from the center of me, not the surface.
ive met people who change loyalties more often than i change my socks.

i have to ask, is this post ok? i'm not sure these days:confused:

steve

[Roseheart]

Ah yes, the frequency dilemma... Those familiar friends who you no longer resonate with... the awkwardness and confusion, then the acceptance when you realise you really can't be on the journey together anymore... then, the silence while you gently let things just fade away... Or...
Sometimes, I find the other person will create a circumstance where you have no option but to pull the plug - it can get ugly - and all I can do is walk away. The mask will drop every time one way or another and the others truth will out. I think this is because my mask has gone and they don't know what to do with me so they have to blame me so it's ok to let me go... Or something. It's complicated. It's a relief though. I still love them.
I think it is unstoppable and appropriate and feels right.
We are all moving into alignment with each other and the universe like a multidimensional jigsaw... We'll all be in the right place at the right time...

[Jendayi]

Ah yes, the frequency dilemma... Those familiar friends who you no longer resonate with... the awkwardness and confusion, then the acceptance when you realise you really can't be on the journey together anymore... then, the silence while you gently let things just fade away... Or...
Sometimes, I find the other person will create a circumstance where you have no option but to pull the plug - it can get ugly - and all I can do is walk away. The mask will drop every time one way or another and the others truth will out. I think this is because my mask has gone and they don't know what to do with me so they have to blame me so it's ok to let me go... Or something. It's complicated. It's a relief though. I still love them.
I think it is unstoppable and appropriate and feels right.
We are all moving into alignment with each other and the universe like a multidimensional jigsaw... We'll all be in the right place at the right time...
could this be the reason charles has come and gone....? just a thought..

[Jendayi]

"we teach best what we most need to learn"
"those who can't do, teach.."

[mosquito]

I think I first noticed this separation, or rather realised it was going to happen, in 2000. I was fortunate enough to be able to visit Guatemala in order to celebrate the New 13 year cycle with the Mayans and other indigenous elders from the Americas. I saw and understood many things in the short time I was there and remember while travelling oneday that humanity was going to polarize. The way I saw it then was that the split would be between indigenous, Earth honouring people and those who just want to grab grab grab and "civilize" in the process. Since then, of course, many many things have occured in the long running soap-opera of our species, and as Bill says, separations are occuring on all sorts of levels. I don't see this as a bad thing, more as a necessity and, in purely survivalistic terms, it's good to know which side of the fence we are all on. I think we need to be aware that something similar happens within our psyche, an oscillation from pole to pole as we seek equilibrium, a process which I've noticed happening more rapidly and unpredictably within myself. Scary at times but we have to observe ourselves and allow the process to happen, knowing that the mystery of life unfolds at spirit's pace, NOT mine.
Integrity - I wholeheartedly agree with what you say Bill, and I'd like to add a couple of things if I may. First of all, I remember reading Jonny Wilkinson's autobiography (Note to all Americans: an English Rubgy player who was shot to stardom at quite a young age) in which he talks about his career and how he coped with being in the limelight. Writing about coaching youngsters, he says "I want to make sure that if young people are looking up to me, they are looking up to the genuine me, not a fake. The way I live cannot be an act." Which emcapsulates it perfectly for me. Secondly I'd like to introduce you all to my favourite Chinese character - 德, pronounced "De" (as in Dao De Jing, the famous book by Lao Zi, beautifully concise and full of profound wisdom, worth all the world's "holy" books put together). The character means virtue, integrity, goodness, personal energy, and has wrongly been interpreted by Westerners as morality - a bi-product of Judaeo-Christianity with no place in Daoism. (I can see that pressing a few buttons - feel free to disagree !) The elements of this character are: a man stepping forward, 10 eyes analysing something on a pedestal, seeing it to be true, and the heart. To me that means authenticity, or to put it another way, walking one's talk, living from the heart. That's been part of my personal journey for the last few years, and as many of you will testify it's far from easy, letting go of old patterns, then watching them reappear, being truthful while surrounded by lies ...... But I feel it's the only way to live, being true to my heart and allowing my personal truth to work through me in whatever situation I find myself in.
Thanks to everyone, power and blessings to you all, Philip

[Jendayi]

Just a small and perhaps unimportant question. Is it true that Modwiz was asked to

leave Avalon because of something he wrote on another forum?:ranger:

http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt81/sakasvattaja/Babajimbge.jpg
should it matter?

[Jendayi]

i'll stop quoting this thread now...(edit: few hrs later... sorry.. i Quoted) just feel a bit frustrated about people (including bill, yes, i dare say it) not getting it....
to be human means you get to pick from an unfathomable amount of choices.. light choices and heavy ones... you get to say what you want, to who you want and where you want... we all do it.. don't judge... accept... we are all in this together... aren't we? don't beat yourselves and other up about it...
we are a freaky bunch indeed... i forgive any and all who have done me "wrong" and ask forgiveness for when i was not where i was expected to be... to forgive my actions is more about you then it is about me... i don't need your forgiveness.. you do...
all is well...

[jorr lundstrom]

Just a small and perhaps unimportant question. Is it true that Modwiz was asked to

leave Avalon because of something he wrote on another forum?:ranger:

http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt81/sakasvattaja/Babajimbge.jpg

should it matter?

Yes, to me. Thats why I ask for an answer.:kiss:

[ulli]

The story of the three domains:
domain # 1:
a wheat field, a salt mine, a river
domain #2:
a jar of flour, a bowl of salt, a jug of water
domain# 3:
a mixing bowl......

each one must decide for themselves whether they want to make it through the heat of the oven....

[mondaze]

i have the feeling that this venerable forum is becoming a cult. if that is the case i didn't sign up to join a cult. To view the panarama of existence one has to be free to experience at all levels, and not be constrained by dogma. If this view treads on anyone's toes i'm truly sorry.

[ulli]

i'll stop quoting this thread now... just feel a bit frustrated about people (including bill, yes, i dare say it) not getting it....
to be human means you get to pick from an unfathomable amount of choices.. light choices and heavy ones... you get to say what you want, to who you want and where you want... we all do it.. don't judge... accept... we are all in this together... aren't we? don't beat yourselves and other up about it...
we are a freaky bunch indeed... i forgive any and all who have done me "wrong" and ask forgiveness for when i was not where i was expected to be... to forgive my actions is more about you then it is about me... i don't need your forgiveness.. you do...
all is well...

The "We are all ONE" paradigm works only for those who can manage living with the paradox that we are also all individuals.
BOTH paradigms are true, depending on space and time levels of perspective. Our physical selves are NOT all one.
Otherwise why even bother to have locks on our cars, or our front doors.

Don't forget, Jendayi, Bill Ryan is a mountaineer. That alone tells me a lot about him and his spirit, and to me it's all good.
Having done the 3 D thing he is now mountaineering in higher dimensional realms.
Plus he risked his life for a friend, hanging on to a rock face by a thread, at night, in the rain.
Doesn't that tell you something about him?
I'm still on a spiritual quest, even though I have had glimpses of absolute truth in the past, which helped me with my personal integration process.
But I know, in the depth of my heart, that the new quest is about teams. Teams that are aligned, and in harmony.
Integrating groups of people means those with opposite views fall away. No one is wasted, as the universe provides for all.
Bill explained it quite clearly, I think.
There are many opportunities out there for people to find their place, where they can feel amongst friends, and start integrating with "their" community.
And no one has to give up their highest ideals, just because there is a fork in the road...

[Jendayi]

i haven't forgotten ulli... bill has done amazing things for the betterment of humanity... bill is indeed a pioneer and i have great respect for him... however.. he is as much human as the rest of us.. prone to mistakes, egoism and poor judgement... i believe avalon has it's function and it is a noble one indeed... however, myself am allready starting to feel the limitations of what is possible here... but hey, that's me.. most people (even the very awake ones) find me pretty "out there" but i can't help it.. i wish to be limitless and all i can be... avalon is a stepping stone along this journey... i am starting to see the next step... avalon (for me at least) was a necessary step in this process.. i cherish the time i have spent here and the lovely people i have interacted with...
many pm's have been exchanged and beautiful threads have arisen... one thing though.. i will not go into details but i have approached Bill on several occasions, both in threads and via PM, he has never responded to my questions and only quoted me once while not really answering my questions... i have been open with him, shared my life's story and asked if he could shed some light on it as i felt he could because of synchronistic events at the time.. when i openly and honestly approach someone i expect at least a response... did not get any.. i do not judge, Bill probably had good reasons which i respect and on which i can only speculate.. which is something i refuse to do.. it does, however, have consequences for my being here...
i wish to work together with people that are able to move beyond the current paradigm... who see beyond personalities, faces and opinions... there are few of these people indeed...

ulli, i have saved some lives in my time as well.. and in that moment i "saved" someone i was a "good" person but trust me... i am not always this virtuous... and neither is anyone...
we are life savers, and we are judges, we can be saints or demons.. it all depends on the given moment we are in...
many "bad" people do good things and vice versa.... Big time criminals don't hesitate to kill an enemy but love their mothers like none other.. american soldiers will kill babies in iraq but don't dare touch their own kids... hell, even hitler performed some pretty heroic stuff in WWI where he saved many of his fellow soldiers in the trenches, only to become one of the most hated characters in earth history... so IMHO, to safe a life does not mean you are of sound integrity all the time, it means you where present in that moment and made a difference and that in it self is a beautiful thing...
one indeed does not have to give up their ideals when there is a fork in the road... however, to be able to move forward a choice has to be made which way to go...
i respect your post and your being... thank you!
namaste..

[Flash]

I do get what he is saying about Integrity. I'm certain that the primary energy that drives Bill Ryan is received messages from people who now see their lives in totally different ways ! And the purpose of Avalon forum is to provide to the visitors the right tools to help them, sending the right message at the right time and finally providing high quality information and contents. I would like to see a subforum that the public could not see to discuss members who are banned.

Since we are talking about integrity and from what I have read in all the posts on this thread, I came to a multi-level understanding of problems that may arise that are sometimes not, in fact, related to integrity but are confounded with it.

1. Integrity is being true towards oneself first and relaying it outward in the world. Integrity should, in my idea, be throughout one's being and therefore about what we write on the forum as well as what we write in PM. Making nice on open forum and telling someone in PM to shut up because what they say is, in one's opinion, not intelligent, is not, in my idea, integrity. It is trying to shut up someone else's opinion, the impact being to take away the taste for that one to contribute. It is a power game.

Same if ones says something positive on this Avalon's forum and something negative on the same topic on other forums. Where is integrity then?

2. Levels and judgments: Being at different levels: once one says that, judgment and evaluations usually start. It has nothing to do with being in fact on different frequencies, it has to do with evaluating that one is better than the other (as per my comment above as well). And there Mondaze has a point:


i have the feeling that this venerable forum is becoming a cult. if that is the case i didn't sign up to join a cult. To view the panarama of existence one has to be free to experience at all levels, and not be constrained by dogma. If this view treads on anyone's toes i'm truly sorry.

When judgment starts happening as one individual being better than others, one group better than others, manipulation/power game starts and therefore cultish behavior. I like it when someone protest and challenges Bill, albeit gently and with respect, because it allows to avoid this group cultish behaviour. Same for all kind of judgments, judging one people compared with another one (remember the thread on how stupid Americans are, some Americans here on the forum were rightfully distraught, or other comments on other nationalities as being racists for example, or comments on individual or group caracteristics - reasons for behavior are often as numerous as the number of people behaving).

Being plainly on different frequencies is an acceptance of the others as they are and of the fact that their ways are different than mine for example and that I have problems staying on the thinking/behavior they are at, respecting myself as well. It is an acknowledgment of reality with acceptance of diversity.

Here acceptance and tolerance are the key words: acceptance, respect and tolerance of diversity - diversity of values, of beliefs, of cultures, of behaviours, of languages, name it. I must say that this forum is a training ground for the planet - if we don't get this part here, who will on earth?

This is about what Jendayi says
we are a freaky bunch indeed... i forgive any and all who have done me "wrong" and ask forgiveness for when i was not where i was expected to be... to forgive my actions is more about you then it is about me... i don't need your forgiveness.. you do... all is well...

3. Communication: A common problem that I have seen here on this forum is about communication. We may be at the same frequency than others but it cannot come across for some reason.

It could come from cultural subtleties misunderstood and mainly unconscious, or from languages difficulties due to different mothertongues (all the numerous members who's first language is not English have harder time to come across - I always revise my posts 3-4 times before and after posting - look at the bottom, it is always edited). For example, for God Sake, explain to me once and for all what a troll is and what he does. Even for the simple acronym "IMHO" it took me a while to understand what it meant - I have learned more English slang here than ever before in my life. I wonder how our poor Chinese are doing with it. - On the cultural side I had to ask around about Australian culture - not understanding some of what seemed to me "impetuous" behavior of some members. But no blame on nobody, we decided to participate to a forum in English and we live with it. Same applies for someone having languages difficulties such as dysphasia.

Then there is all the different abilities in communication as such, some have the nack for it, some don't. This has to be respected as well. I saw some wonderful intellingent posts, or some out of this world extraordinay posts with communication skills that were difficult to follow. I enjoyed nevertheless, without judgment or by going slow in reacting, understanding that communication may be hardeous.

We do have to be tolerant and not jump negatively to conclusion about someone's else opinon without asking first what it is about. Tolerance about diversity is essential IMHO. This includes tolerance about diversity in communication skills. It implies respect.

This means always having in the back of one's mind that our interpretation may not be what the author had in mind - and verify it with the author before jumping.

In conclusion, I do not entirely have the same views as Gaia
provide to the visitors the right tools to help them, sending the right message at the right time and finally providing high quality information and contents
is wishfull, a nice target, but not always realistic in view of diversity. Some of the tools could involve extensive teaching/knowledge in communication, which is not really feasible on a forum IMHO. It may as well not be entirely desirable either, imperfection being perfect as a part of the whole of humanity. Therefore, tolerance and acceptance of diversity. We have to live with it man!!

Nobody wakes up in the morning saying "Today I will do the worst I can" (except for my ex husband ;) this is a joke hey!). Usually, for most people, intentions are positive.

Integrity = being true to oneself. Intention is what drives us. Love is what saves us.(my post seems too long to me..... I don't know what to take off and still convey the message)

[SEAM]

What Bill just said... Unfortunately I can only hit the "Thanks" button once... I was going to say it for you.. yours was much less edgier...

Thanks for pursuing the proper ballist... and I commend you for that seemingly "Thankless" task, slash necessity....

"One (or 5) bad apple DOES, spoil the whole bunch girl"

[Flash]

i haven't forgotten ulli... bill has done amazing things for the betterment of humanity... bill is indeed a pioneer and i have great respect for him... however.. he is as much human as the rest of us.. prone to mistakes, egoism and poor judgement... i believe avalon has it's function and it is a noble one indeed... however, myself am allready starting to feel the limitations of what is possible here... but hey, that's me.. most people (even the very awake ones) find me pretty "out there" but i can't help it.. i wish to be limitless and all i can be... avalon is a stepping stone along this journey... i am starting to see the next step... avalon (for me at least) was a necessary step in this process.. i cherish the time i have spent here and the lovely people i have interacted with...
many pm's have been exchanged and beautiful threads have arisen... one thing though.. i will not go into details but i have approached Bill on several occasions, both in threads and via PM, he has never responded to my questions and only quoted me once while not really answering my questions... i have been open with him, shared my life's story and asked if he could shed some light on it as i felt he could because of synchronistic events at the time.. when i openly and honestly approach someone i expect at least a response... did not get any.. i do not judge, Bill probably had good reasons which i respect and on which i can only speculate.. which is something i refuse to do.. it does, however, have consequences for my being here...
i wish to work together with people that are able to move beyond the current paradigm... who see beyond personalities, faces and opinions... there are few of these people indeed...

ulli, i have saved some lives in my time as well.. and in that moment i "saved" someone i was a "good" person but trust me... i am not always this virtuous... and neither is anyone...
we are life savers, and we are judges, we can be saints or demons.. it all depends on the given moment we are in...
many "bad" people do good things and vice versa.... Big time criminals don't hesitate to kill an enemy but love their mothers like none other.. american soldiers will kill babies in iraq but don't dare touch their own kids... hell, even hitler performed some pretty heroic stuff in WWI where he saved many of his fellow soldiers in the trenches, only to become one of the most hated characters in earth history... so IMHO, to safe a life does not mean you are of sound integrity all the time, it means you where present in that moment and made a difference and that in it self is a beautiful thing...
one indeed does not have to give up their ideals when there is a fork in the road... however, to be able to move forward a choice has to be made which way to go...
i respect your post and your being... thank you!
namaste..

A teacher of mine (he knows what he practices, he does not teach what he does not do - referring to one of your post) said last week: "stop trying to be good, striving to be good is not being evolved spiritually". Shocking, not what I learned in religion classes when I was small. He had some little explaining to do - and me some understanding to reach - and he said "evolving spiritually is total knowledge of oneself, total acceptance of oneself, total forgiveness of oneself, finally no judgments, and then comes love/wisdom flowing through, this is liberation". He added up that we all have what seems to be tremendous faults, and all this is a wonderfull game we are learning to play. "Reality is elsewhere, beyond" he added - yes another vibration, frequency.

Welcome to the club Jendayi. :kiss:

[Jendayi]

@ Flash:
glad to be a member of a club that has no name!!!!

[buffski]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9tqC7hfeKk

[jorr lundstrom]

@ Flash:
glad to be a member of a club that has no name!!!!

Wot about ordinary humans?:thumb:

[Billy]

-----

It's about principles, and respect, and positive agendas, and how we communicate, and whether we're being the change we want to see in the world.
I'd like to discuss this more later, because I think it's both subtle and important. But for the moment, this is an important post. I do welcome all views and perspectives.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hzgzim5m7oU

Respect with compassion always works well. Bless you all

[ulli]

Everybody is right, all the views above are true.
But what about context?
And what about consequence?

We either get Bill's point or we don't.

[Chicodoodoo]

Here acceptance and tolerance are the key words: acceptance, respect and tolerance of diversity - diversity of values, of beliefs, of cultures, of behaviours, of languages, name it. I must say that this forum is a training ground for the planet - if we don't get this part here, who will on earth?

Bravo, Flash! This cuts to the heart of the matter. There may be a BIG problem here on Avalon where integrity and tolerance clash.

This post of Bill's on "Integrity" really needs to be seen in context, and that context cannot be seen without hearing the voices of those Avalon members that have been recently banned. With that context, the reasons behind Bill’s post become more visible.

I have a great deal of respect for Bill, but my own sense of integrity requires me to present the following "speculation" based on what I've learned from the banned members. I do this without malice towards Bill, and with the best interests of Avalon in mind, in the hopes of finding a solution to this very real problem. I also do this at the risk of being banned myself, which is something I do not desire. I'm sure many of the whistle-blowers Bill and Kerry have brought before us have felt the same thing, but were also obliged to speak out because of personal integrity.

Speculation: Bill is using the ideas of "ownership", "integrity", and "separation" to justify his actions of intolerance and non-acceptance that are resulting in the increasingly common unsubscribing of Avalon members.

1. Bill "owns" the Avalon forum. He models this public forum as a private club. Bill emphatically reserves the right to dismiss anyone for any reason at any time. The separation is sudden, complete, and final. There is no oversight or review of this power. As we all know, there is the very real risk of corruption when power like this is reserved to a single person.

2. The rationalization that Bill makes for removing Avalon members is that he is acting with integrity by following the ground rules he himself has laid out. The human legal system has sunk into this same trap, where the law is manipulated to legalize unjust actions. At the same time, the condemned Avalon members stand accused of lacking integrity, but they are given no recourse to any defense whatsoever.

3. A further rationalization is that the process of separation is occurring all over the world, so it must be OK to participate in it. We all know that separation is part of the "divide and conquer" strategy used by the controllers to subdue humanity. Avalon, like humanity, should be uniting, not separating.

I would encourage other Avalon members to act in the original spirit of Project Camelot and look into all sides of this issue, not just Bill’s side. The integrity of Avalon is at stake. As Flash points out, if we can’t solve this problem here, what chance does humanity have?

[T Smith]

In connection with this, there's a kind of 'separation' happening. I can see it all around. I even talked about this with Kerry two years ago, and since then it has gradually intensified and amplified. You can see it in the YouTube comments on any alternative video you care to pick at random
I haven't seen anything like it before, but it is true. I can't put my finger on it exactly but I believe that it has to do with frequencies or vibrations.

Deloras Cannon's hypothesis comes to mind...

[Arpheus]

There is a hidden hand behind all the actions that are being taken as of recently and only the blind cannot and will not see it,and that's all i have to say about this ,i agree with just about every word you wrote chico.

[Jendayi]

@ Flash:
glad to be a member of a club that has no name!!!!

Wot about ordinary humans?:thumb:
i am an ordinary human! don't know if i have an ordinary way of thinking though... :(

[Jendayi]

@ chicidoodoo:
your way with words and your insights keep astounding me.. well said brother! (may i call you brother?)

[Jendayi]

-----

It's about principles, and respect, and positive agendas, and how we communicate, and whether we're being the change we want to see in the world.
I'd like to discuss this more later, because I think it's both subtle and important. But for the moment, this is an important post. I do welcome all views and perspectives.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hzgzim5m7oU

Respect with compassion always works well. Bless you all

every single time i see this it brings tears of wonder to my eyes... it leaves me with a lump in my throat... and i have a little crush on that amazing woman... the tone of her voice when she speaks at the end sends beautiful shivers down my spine... thank you for exposing me to this once again... i am touched beyond words by this... it is so true!!! thank you....
namaste

[Sierra]

They were kicked off Avalon for pretty serious offenses.

No offense Chic but I'd rather not go through that again.

What we are seeing now may be different. People may be getting the boot for political or ideological reasons, which are not serious offenses. I just learned that Modwiz and Goldenyears have been unsubscribed:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?18970-Magna-Cartas-and-stuff

This is rather shocking to me, as I don't recall ever seeing any bad behavior from these two on the forum.

And no offense taken.

Thanks Chic :) I am glad I have not offended you.

Well I did my homework read the "Magna Carta" thread... then trotted over to Nexus to read a little. Honestly Chic, nothing seems to have changed over there. I don't know why ModWiz and GoldenYears were kicked off. I don't know what happened in the PMs. I do know when I first visited Nexus at the time Richard and Celine were kicked off, the credibility gap between what they were saying had happened and what I actually read on the Avalon forums caused me to throw up my hands utterly at a loss to reconcile the two versions of reality.

I don't see much change at the Nexus site now. Still intently focused on Avalon rather than moving on and doing their thing. Why don't they do their own thing? Is bitching about Avalon really a constructive or evolutionary behavior? Is saying one thing on Avalon and then saying the opposite on Nexus display integrity? I just don't get it that people can't see that people can see their own lack of congruence! This is sycophantic behavior on not one but TWO websites lol!

To say oh but that is not fair that Bill held me accountable for what I said at Nexus is specious considering what was being said over there was actually about Bill and Inelia. Do I see anyone bashing Celine and Richard over here at Avalon? NO. … er maybe just me a little with the heaving bosoms …

Why WOULD you tolerate a backstabber in your own home or private forum? Someone who mocked and insulted you and your significant other? I do believe Richard unilaterally and in a foul mouthed temper, kicked someone off Avalon for attacking his wife. To now point the finger at Bill for protecting his woman regardless of her self defense capabilities … (Oh Gawd I cannot believe I said "his woman", nausea and no heaving bosoms cooing and trilling here trust me).

I'm sorry. I'm so sorry that ModWiz and GoldenYears are hurting and upset and I would smooth healing balm on their wounds if I could. But you know… statistically and eventually someone *IS* going to respond to the bash rather than the coo if you are exhibiting dualistic behavior and to draw back in hurt martyrdom, well you said what you said, didn’t you? This is not disagreeing respectfully with someone’s position is it?

I would also offer the same comfort to Inelia, who has got to be just as hurt at people bashing her for what ... beginning a relationship with Bill? Being interviewed? Causing a man happily in love to speak out loud of his admiration and affection? What? One Nexus poster made a comment about it is getting too “feminist” over here? Huh? WTF? What the hell does feminism have to do with this devolutionary behavior? (Oh. I just answered my own question, its devolutionary behavior.) Damn those feminists are taking up half the planet lol yes and by George us feministic males and females plan to make some MORE changes around here and we’re not going to quit until we the human race are in BALANCE! Sez Mother Earth and the divine feminine <evil grin>.

This is a stagnant event spiraling around again for resolution. A sure sign of being off the path out of the zone and the record is skipping back to the point of dissonance skipping back to the point of dissonance skipping back to the point of dissonance… and you know what? Maybe in 2011 it is no longer a spiral but a decision point, a snapshot of position at the decision point, a separation of intent, in which case we might as well let it go Chic and focus on where we want to be in our evolution at that point rather than where we want someone else to be. No one is going to change anyone's opinion. But it sure would be nice if we had two websites doing their thing helping all us humans along with the truth of our shared reality instead of one website bashing another to death. Family. Snort.

[jjl]

thankyou is not enough

[Jake]

Here acceptance and tolerance are the key words: acceptance, respect and tolerance of diversity - diversity of values, of beliefs, of cultures, of behaviours, of languages, name it. I must say that this forum is a training ground for the planet - if we don't get this part here, who will on earth?

Bravo, Flash! This cuts to the heart of the matter. There may be a BIG problem here on Avalon where integrity and tolerance clash.

This post of Bill's on "Integrity" really needs to be seen in context, and that context cannot be seen without hearing the voices of those Avalon members that have been recently banned. With that context, the reasons behind Bill’s post become more visible.

I have a great deal of respect for Bill, but my own sense of integrity requires me to present the following "speculation" based on what I've learned from the banned members. I do this without malice towards Bill, and with the best interests of Avalon in mind, in the hopes of finding a solution to this very real problem. I also do this at the risk of being banned myself, which is something I do not desire. I'm sure many of the whistle-blowers Bill and Kerry have brought before us have felt the same thing, but were also obliged to speak out because of personal integrity.

Speculation: Bill is using the ideas of "ownership", "integrity", and "separation" to justify his actions of intolerance and non-acceptance that are resulting in the increasingly common unsubscribing of Avalon members.

1. Bill "owns" the Avalon forum. He models this public forum as a private club. Bill emphatically reserves the right to dismiss anyone for any reason at any time. The separation is sudden, complete, and final. There is no oversight or review of this power. As we all know, there is the very real risk of corruption when power like this is reserved to a single person.

2. The rationalization that Bill makes for removing Avalon members is that he is acting with integrity by following the ground rules he himself has laid out. The human legal system has sunk into this same trap, where the law is manipulated to legalize unjust actions. At the same time, the condemned Avalon members stand accused of lacking integrity, but they are given no recourse to any defense whatsoever.

3. A further rationalization is that the process of separation is occurring all over the world, so it must be OK to participate in it. We all know that separation is part of the "divide and conquer" strategy used by the controllers to subdue humanity. Avalon, like humanity, should be uniting, not separating.

I would encourage other Avalon members to act in the original spirit of Project Camelot and look into all sides of this issue, not just Bill’s side. The integrity of Avalon is at stake. As Flash points out, if we can’t solve this problem here, what chance does humanity have?

Chicodoodoo, thank you for your continued support of Bill and Avalon. With respect:

1) We have an entire team of decent folks who review infractions and act accordingly. Bill, quite frankly, does not have the time to review every post. Your concern regarding corruption when placed in the hands of a single person, should NOT apply to Avalon, as moderating the forum is a group effort. And we try everything we can before folks are asked to leave. Furthermore, Have you looked into what it takes to be 'invited' into the community these days? We take a lot of care to promote the type of environment that people have come to respect from Bill Ryan and Project Avalon.

2) "The law is manipulated to legalize unjust actions." That is quite a stretch. I am not sure that comment can be justified. Asking someone to leave the forum is not condemnation. Simply put, some posting styles are better suited for other forums. Nobody stands accused of anything. This is not a court of law.

3) The aforementioned process of separation was never meant to imply that there is a divide between Bill and Avalonians. Rather a suggestion of a powerful new direction that Avalon is taking. The direction is FORWARD. He is talking about the ideals of people and their respective goals. If you want to characterize the retiring of a few members as 'divided and conquered' that is fine. You are wrong, but that is fine. I do not disrespect you for your opinion. This is not a witch hunt. There are a so many more new people here with amazing minds. Try getting to know some of them.

The integrity of Avalon is NOT at stake. Avalon is as strong as ever. Best regards, Jake.

[Whiskey_Mystic]

I'm watching this thread move like a wave. It started becoming cathartic movement and then started sinking into "he said this, they did that", which I don't think was the purpose of the thread.

It seems that there is a difference of opinion as to what Avalon is. I saw this alot when the drama went down a few months ago. The concept that this is a private forum supporting a private goal is just bouncing off some people. Especially when people are here for a longer period of time and give their own time and energy to the project. There is a sense of entitlement and a sense that there is an inherent right to be here. There is an almost demand that the forum be run in a legalistic, transparent, democratic, and "fair" way with consensus from the members. from this perception comes the feelings of injustice which still linger months after the big hoopla. There is no inherent right to transparency as regards to mod decisions. The members of Avalon are not here to act as a "check" on the powers of the mod team or Bill. There is no "jury of your peers" and legal due process.

If you don't like it, move along. there are plenty of places to be. Quit whining about it.

If you do not know the difference between healthy dissension and sedition, please go train on that. Start here http://www.cnvc.org/

To me, Avalon is partially created by the intention vibration of those who participate in it. If I am running a project and people are participating in it, but are meanwhile bad mouthing it and slandering me elsewhere, well that's a no brainer that they don't belong with the project. Their intention energy is misaligned with the project. It's NOT personal. It's just energies aligning and frequencies stratifying.

This is Bill's show. That doesn't make it a "cult". Bill has always said that he sees himself as a coach, not a leader, but when people are not holding the vibrational integrity which is core to the project, then what exactly is the point of their participation? Participation is not an inherent right!

And another thing. Bill is involved with projects that most of you know nothing about (Nor do you have any special right to). I'm surprised he has time to come here at all, let alone answer individual pm's and emails. Don't take that personally.

[T Smith]

I would say Avalon is a great forum, with much credit due to Bill Ryan, but those that might offer a dissenting opinion to mine no longer have a voice here. It would be useful if all members that were dismissed had the opportunity to leave a final post. I bet that would be quite an interesting thread as well as a valuable learning tool for everyone.

I concur wholeheartedly with this suggestion. And while I intuit a collective "sigh" from the Mods, perhaps the most constructive aspect of this suggestion is that it would allow for an exploration of the phenomenon of dissonance Bill describes, and which he also admits he does not fully understand. If there is something happening here, and others seem to concur there is, it would be helpful to examine it. What's going on inside Avalon may represent a microcosm of some universal phenomenon taking place that is very much worthy of our reflection.

[Flash]

Quotes in black from Chicodoodoo post 230. In purple are my comments - Flash

Bravo, Flash! This cuts to the heart of the matter. There may be a BIG problem here on Avalon where integrity and tolerance clash. That is the point, integrity and tolerance should not have to clash. An integral person knows itself and knows where he is not congruent, this is integrity. Not being only one piece, but knowing where we lack, admitting it, forgiving it. Liking diversity and hating individuality would not be integrity, it would be being messed up

This post of Bill's on "Integrity" really needs to be seen in context, and that context cannot be seen without hearing the voices of those Avalon members that have been recently banned. With that context, the reasons behind Bill’s post become more visible.


Speculation: Bill is using the ideas of "ownership", "integrity", and "separation" to justify his actions of intolerance and non-acceptance that are resulting in the increasingly common unsubscribing of Avalon members. If you don't mind my intrusion, be carefull here Chicodoodoo, have you checked with Bill about those speculations - I am glad you used that last term, it puts it into context

1. Bill "owns" the Avalon forum. He models this public forum as a private club. Bill emphatically reserves the right to dismiss anyone for any reason at any time. The separation is sudden, complete, and final. There is no oversight or review of this power. As we all know, there is the very real risk of corruption when power like this is reserved to a single person. Again, be careful and check. It may seem like this without being like that. But it points definitely to a communication interface missing or problematic: may be rules for the forum are not specific and clear enough. What are the values to be carried by this forum, how are they defined, what are the no no behaviors in specifics. Where and when is the line crossed for no return? We are from widely varied backgrounds, cultures and languages, behaviors have different meanings as well as words depending on where you are on the planet or in your head. If we were in he heart and beyond, most of these problems would be absent though - it is called evolution

2. The rationalization that Bill makes for removing Avalon members is that he is acting with integrity by following the ground rules he himself has laid out. The human legal system has sunk into this same trap, where the law is manipulated to legalize unjust actions. At the same time, the condemned Avalon members stand accused of lacking integrity, but they are given no recourse to any defense whatsoever. I am not sure this is a rationalization. Could it be lack of clarity in communicating values? Could it be changing values? One thing I know is that I personnaly, in my private life, dropped all those that were constantly pulling me down with destructive comments and action, or with manipulative behaviors, after numerous times of trying to communicate my needs and desire for better. I also personnally realised that I still have quite a lot of negative thinking in me, therefore attracting the negative, which I am cleaning up as well. May be Bill is just doing that, plain and simple.t

3. A further rationalization is that the process of separation is occurring all over the world, so it must be OK to participate in it. We all know that separation is part of the "divide and conquer" strategy used by the controllers to subdue humanity. Avalon, like humanity, should be uniting, not separating.Yes, in fact we are all one. Those that have negative behaviors and comments are a reflection of us - we are in these fields with them, together, we are one. It does not mean that we have to remain underneath, a victim though. Getting out of the pattern may be the lesson to learn and to give, together. When talking about "beyond", we are taliking of the whole field of energy in the universe. It is my belief that to overcome PTB we have to go into these fields. And bring them back here. PTB is still too powerful otherwise.This means tolerance, respect of everyone in their state (including PTB) but not sinking into victimhood. It is mostly acceptance of oneself, with one's rotten side as well, and forgiveness to oneself first. (This is what I was seeing you trying to do Chicodoodoo, with your thread on a new world declaration, going beyond and changing the field here).

I would encourage other Avalon members to act in the original spirit of Project Camelot and look into all sides of this issue, not just Bill’s side. The integrity of Avalon is at stake. As Flash points out, if we can’t solve this problem here, what chance does humanity have?[/QUOTE] I do agree with myself at this point. I just want to add that tolerance, love and integrity are one, they do not have to clash.

[norman]

I'm wondering if a house full of guests is really a good model for the future.

My gut tells me the right model is a family home.

[jjl]

Family by invite only? I dont know...I like guest better. It lends more civility to the idea and discourse

[benevolentcrow]

This is Bill's home and I think he is saying "Not in my house!" I appreciate and respect his wishes. I am humbled to be a part of something that tries to be pure of heart...

Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering.
There is a crack in everything,
That's how the light gets in.
~Leonard Cohen

[jorr lundstrom]

Just a small and perhaps unimportant question. Is it true that Modwiz was asked to

leave Avalon because of something he wrote on another forum?:ranger:

http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt81/sakasvattaja/Babajimbge.jpg



Bill Ryan:
Anyone is free and welcome to say anything they want to anywhere on the internet - but not here.


As Modwiz has been a dear friend of mine here on PA for several months and still is my friend

I really would like to know wot has happened. I really dont know. Is it too much to ask?:faint:

http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt81/sakasvattaja/Happy_Easter.jpg

[norman]

This is Bill's home and I think he is saying "Not in my house!" I appreciate and respect his wishes. I am humbled to be a part of something that tries to be pure of heart...

Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering.
There is a crack in everything,
That's how the light gets in.
~Leonard Cohen


I agree it's something trying to be pure, but, I'm inclined to think it's a purity of mind that's aspired here here more than a purity of heart.

My cerebral instinct is in alignment with it quite well and when I'm lost or disturbed it shines brightly as beacon to head for.

When I ocassionally get more in touch with my heart I get a wobble about it and wonder if it's actually a lighthouse on a rock.


As I said earlier in this thread somewhere, I'm quite confused. I have been for a few months.

[EsmaEverheart]

I'm watching this thread move like a wave. It started becoming cathartic movement and then started sinking into "he said this, they did that", which I don't think was the purpose of the thread.

It seems that there is a difference of opinion as to what Avalon is. I saw this alot when the drama went down a few months ago. The concept that this is a private forum supporting a private goal is just bouncing off some people. Especially when people are here for a longer period of time and give their own time and energy to the project. There is a sense of entitlement and a sense that there is an inherent right to be here. There is an almost demand that the forum be run in a legalistic, transparent, democratic, and "fair" way with consensus from the members. from this perception comes the feelings of injustice which still linger months after the big hoopla. There is no inherent right to transparency as regards to mod decisions. The members of Avalon are not here to act as a "check" on the powers of the mod team or Bill. There is no "jury of your peers" and legal due process.

If you don't like it, move along. there are plenty of places to be. Quit whining about it.

If you do not know the difference between healthy dissension and sedition, please go train on that. Start here http://www.cnvc.org/

To me, Avalon is partially created by the intention vibration of those who participate in it. If I am running a project and people are participating in it, but are meanwhile bad mouthing it and slandering me elsewhere, well that's a no brainer that they don't belong with the project. Their intention energy is misaligned with the project. It's NOT personal. It's just energies aligning and frequencies stratifying.

This is Bill's show. That doesn't make it a "cult". Bill has always said that he sees himself as a coach, not a leader, but when people are not holding the vibrational integrity which is core to the project, then what exactly is the point of their participation? Participation is not an inherent right!

And another thing. Bill is involved with projects that most of you know nothing about (Nor do you have any special right to). I'm surprised he has time to come here at all, let alone answer individual pm's and emails. Don't take that personally.

The thank you button wasn't enough. I thought the same thing, but you said it much better than I could have.

[jjl]

I think if everyone takes a deep breath and relaxes for a moment, we can quiet down and appreciate the harmony that is flowing again.

[Jendayi]

hi guys 'n gals..
i guess i reacted a bit emotional to the whole thing... i have adjusted my signature accordingly.. i will stay on avalon but will reduce my presence again, like i did before and try to only share thoughts from my own personal experience and no longer get caught up in discussions like these.. i have way more valuable information to share on a more personal level, touching upon the core of our being, especially regarding the healing of emotional and sexual imbalances.. i can help people to let go... now i just need to find a way to express it without needing others to get me going... and without offending anyone I guess.. (please read that i say "Try" for a reason, i am still human.. ;)


i just really love modwiz's being.. he is a gentle soul who, i believe, deserves better...
I still don't understand fully what is going on here... and i don't care anymore.. i have not lost a friend, just one way of communicating with him.. i realize that now..
namaste!

p.s.
just saw that this post generated my 777th "Thanks" so that is definitely a sign! Thanks Norman or JJl (did not see who was first ;) )
p.p.s. Just saw modwiz on the other forum where he received 777 thanks so far... ( I Kid you not!!! just doesn't feel right to make a screenshot)
now that's what i call syncronicity!!!! this IS freaking me out a bit but i am enjoying the ride...
let's see where it will all lead, shall we?

[giovonni]

Again... this is Bill's forum and we all are invited guest here...
But the term banishment does not resonate well with me...the word mor·a·to·ri·um however does much better...as it is in the state of Bliss (a state of clarity rest and reflection) ~ there is no need for this permanent state of being ~ just a timeout for contemplation upon learned lessons. i have always tried to be respectful in honoring Bill and All others (who have come and gone) here at Avalon. i believe forgiveness is (or should be) a big component of anyone's reflective integrity...i would chose to follow.