Magna Cartas and stuff

[Isostool]

Modwiz has had his subscription terminated. I will miss his company in threads. I do not have complete information on the details and judgments surrounding his departure, but I wish I did. I dearly hope that it was not for things which are not justly claimed. Because if Modwiz has been judged unworthy of being a member of Avalon for things he has done, said, thought outside of this site, this makes for an ugly precedent - for this leaves the door open for any one of us to be judged for anything anywhere in any way by those who decide such things here, in regards to our worthiness.

And that is not a healthy scope to have in regards to membership requirements, for it encroaches upon personal liberties and privacy - and it leaves too wide a scope for those whose opinions are already marginal in comparison to whatever is considered the status quo in such a system, to be persecuted unjustly. Good laws and rules should come before the tempestuous whims of the heart, unless the heart is so wise as to need no temperance.

Modwiz; the place will not be the same without you.

- Equality before the law - [And having one. And upholding it.]

[Jendayi]

modwiz.... i am left in silence...

[shijo]

i never chatted with the man but i appreciated his posts a great deal.

[Isostool]

Goldenyears too, has been unsubscribed but I am aware of even less details of her case than modwiz's.

[Chicodoodoo]

This is not a good sign. I am not convinced the power to "unsubscribe" members is being used properly. It would appear that anyone can "disappear" for no apparent reason. I just suggested on Bill Ryan's "Integrity" thread that "dismissed" Avalon members be given the opportunity to post their last words before their departure in a special thread devoted to that purpose. In the past, I have also suggested a "three strikes" policy before anyone is permanently banned. Sometimes a short cooling off period is all that is required. Too many valuable Avalon members have been lost. I've only seen respectful behavior from Modwiz on this forum, so I am completely surprised that he is unsubscribed.

No, this does not bode well for Avalon.

If I should disappear, rest assured that it was not suicide.

[karelia]

<snip> I've only seen respectful behavior from Modwiz on this forum, so I am completely surprised that he is unsubscribed.



The emphasis being on this forum. This is what I believe the Integrity post is all about. Walk the talk everywhere, not just in this forum. If you don't walk the talk everywhere you go, you lose trust very fast. If I visit a friend and mingle with his other friends and pretend to be friends with all, in his home, and then I go out for a walk and b*tch about my friend's other friends, and loud enough for him to hear, then it's a logical conclusion that my host friend will quit the friendship, no? I know I would, and have done. It doesn't mean there are any hard feelings, it's just that I don't want to associate with that kind of energy, so I walk away. Quite simple.

[Isostool]

<snip> I've only seen respectful behavior from Modwiz on this forum, so I am completely surprised that he is unsubscribed.



The emphasis being on this forum. This is what I believe the Integrity post is all about. Walk the talk everywhere, not just in this forum. If you don't walk the talk everywhere you go, you lose trust very fast. If I visit a friend and mingle with his other friends and pretend to be friends with all, in his home, and then I go out for a walk and b*tch about my friend's other friends, and loud enough for him to hear, then it's a logical conclusion that my host friend will quit the friendship, no? I know I would, and have done. It doesn't mean there are any hard feelings, it's just that I don't want to associate with that kind of energy, so I walk away. Quite simple.

But Modwiz was not *pretending* to like Inelia on this forum. He was not being two faced.

In Bill's first post on the Integrity thread, he states that members are allowed to write whatever they like in the rest of the internet but just not here. Modwiz spoke his mind elsewhere, and like chicodoodoo I have never observed any behaviour by him on this forum which would warrent his dismissal.

And I also agree that it is not a good sign... Fairness, equity and temperance find themselves lacking here, and truly they should not be.

[qbeac]

This is not a good sign. I am not convinced the power to "unsubscribe" members is being used properly. It would appear that anyone can "disappear" for no apparent reason. I just suggested on Bill Ryan's "Integrity" thread that "dismissed" Avalon members be given the opportunity to post their last words before their departure in a special thread devoted to that purpose. In the past, I have also suggested a "three strikes" policy before anyone is permanently banned. Sometimes a short cooling off period is all that is required. Too many valuable Avalon members have been lost. I've only seen respectful behavior from Modwiz on this forum, so I am completely surprised that he is unsubscribed.

No, this does not bode well for Avalon.

If I should disappear, rest assured that it was not suicide.
I totally agree with Chicodoodoo

I think that unsubscribing a member should be the last resort, and after all other options have been tried and failed. Also, in case the mods unsubscribe a member, the mods should give a VERY good and reasonable explanation of why they did so.

For instance, if it is because that member said “something in particular”, please, show it to us, show us the post/s where that member did/said such thing so that we can see it.

And please, don’t be vague or ambiguous, but precise and concrete:


What did that member exactly say/do that was against the forum rules or guidelines? Please, show us the post where he said/did that.

So, is there a really good explanation for unsubscribing these two members: Modwiz and Goldenyears?

(Note: I will add two other cases of unsubscribed members that have never been properly clarified: WhiteStar and Lee-B, and that, in my personal opinion, where big injustices)

If there is good explanation for unsubscribing them, please, show it to us, let’s hear it, but in the open (publicly), not by PM where things can remain hidden from the rest of us. For a hidden and occult dynamic we already have MSM (Mainstream Media), the corrupt military factions, the corrupt elite (shadowy government), etc.

Otherwise, and in case anybody uses extreme methods to get rid of people or opinions, runs the risk of sliding into censorship, abuses of power, crushing dissent, etc.

And I don’t know about the rest of you, but if that was the case (and we should clarify if it is or not), that would be the opposite spirit than the one I have been defending about Project Camelot and Project Avalon during the past 3 years.

In other words, I wouldn’t have defended and supported PC and PA during 3 years (as I have done) if it wasn’t because I believe they both support the spirit of integrity, liberty, openness, tolerance, respect, accepting different points of view, accepting and even welcoming healthy criticism, etc.

So, was I right or wrong by supporting PC and PA during the past 3 years? I’d like to know.

[Jendayi]

integrity??? if people like modwiz can be banned for speaking their minds... then what about the rest of us?
i was so happy when i joined avalon... i just left some other forums.. deleted all my social network pages.. and came to avalon.. modwiz was one of the first people i befriended and i have the utmost respect for him.. his comments have been insightful, warm and really funny at times.. i have seen people conduct horrible behaviour on avalon yet, they are still here as other people who actually had something useful to say have been unsubscribed... is this an upside down world or what?
and then we have the whole "walk the talk" retoric.. oh please...
no one on this planet is able to 'walk the talk" 24/7... we are all prone to gossip, bad-mouthing or lying once in a while, it's part of the human experience... people should really get over themselves and stop being so friggin' righteous all the time.. be honest!!! only truth will persevere in the end... damn it people... what is going on here?
avalon is turning out to be something i did not expect...
sorry for this emotional outburst.. (in the spirit of honesty i will post this anyway and invite anyone who knows more about this to start sharing, members, mods and founder(s) alike)
this is the time of reckoning.. no more secrets, no more lies... tell us why all of this is happening.. let's stop beating around the bush, shall we?
i case i ever get unsubscribed myself, i would like to take the opportunity to give you all a big hug and say that i am learning a lot here.... thank you for allowing me the space to express myself..
i love you all..
Jendayi

[Isostool]

Nice Post Jendai.

Yeah. There has not been a fairness in regards to who has been unsubbed and why and who has been allowed to stay, even just in the time I have been observing the forum.

Integrity can be a relative thing in that one man acting in integrity can be abhorrent to another, as it is that it is relative to the observer, in their truth, genuinely.

So now, regardless of the fact that you would or wouldn't do it: say anything a member on here might find offensive, somewhere other than Avalon (anywhere infact), how do people feel about having everything you say outside of here come under the jurisdiction of Avalon's "Are you fit to be a member" appraisal team?

Since when is Nexus Avalon's jurisdiction? Oh but you can then say "we don't have laws like that around here, we is going by universal laws" Oh really.

Once that line has been crossed, in cancelling someone's subscription for things said outside of Avalon, it means something in concept. This evidence has been allowed to be admissible. It means something to your sovereignty. It means something about the governing system this little internet city state is having for itself. It means that if your integrity, in what it is that you see as truth is contrary to Bills or Inelia's or whoever else might ask Bill that someone be unsubbed for something that they find disagreeable to their heart or mind, and you speak it or print it outside of Avalon, ANYWHERE that they may find it in their presence, then YOU TOO are liable to be unsubscribed.

And this is bigger than a house. It is a mini city state to itself, and we are all residents. The house analogy is far too quaint and small a shell for this place.

So that their jurisdiction reaches right into and over your life. And it is a Forum, not God. So what gives it that right? we do? And so are we comfortable as citizens in saying that that's alright, you can have that jurisdiction over our lives? Potential it may only be, but real potential is it, and its first stone has indeed been cast, its precedent, its loud advocation, by the governance of Avalon. God has that right because that which is "god" is perfect; man may not have that one, cos he's not. Unless you are, in which case you'd already have my loyalty.

Oh but it's alright, we can say: there is no real offence, we are but travellers on different roads, with different missions etc. This may be a pretty way to dress it up, but the truth is somewhat closer to the bone. Good quality posters like Modwiz? To be removed for the sake of squalls, as impermanent as a finger smudge free mirror? That is just crap.

[Isostool]

Wow, After catching up with this thread; http://nexus.2012info.ca/forum/showthread.php?1671-They-cancelled-my-membership
(I am sometimes a bit slow!!!), not only is it Modwiz and Goldenyears, but also Lightblue.

All unsubscribed for being not much more than members of Nexus, as well as Avalon. Just quietly told they were not longer acceptable and that they should go to where they will find sympathy for their beliefs and ways of being.

For no good reason. No just reason... witchhunt dressed up as an integrity cleansing. This is a great transgression against Justice and Beauty, against creativity and freedom and against people who have done nothing wrong. And were both enjoyed as members of this community and enjoying of their fellow Avalonian citizens. To be deprived of this for the reasons I have seen offered is just not solid in its rightness.

I went back and read Goldenyears' posts on Nexus. She disagreed with Bill. She was not abusive. Her viewpoint was in opposition to Bill's viewpoint. That's all. She was not snide. So it is not about what a person says that gets them banned, nor about the way they say it, but who they say it about? How is this equality in motion? I will say that it appears that it isn't.

[TigerLilly]

Nice Post Jendai.

Yeah. There has not been a fairness in regards to who has been unsubbed and why and who has been allowed to stay, even just in the time I have been observing the forum.

Integrity can be a relative thing in that one man acting in integrity can be abhorrent to another, as it is that it is relative to the observer, in their truth, genuinely.

So now, regardless of the fact that you would or wouldn't do it: say anything a member on here might find offensive, somewhere other than Avalon (anywhere infact), how do people feel about having everything you say outside of here come under the jurisdiction of Avalon's "Are you fit to be a member" appraisal team?

Since when is Nexus Avalon's jurisdiction? Oh but you can then say "we don't have laws like that around here, we is going by universal laws" Oh really.

Once that line has been crossed, in cancelling someone's subscription for things said outside of Avalon, it means something in concept. This evidence has been allowed to be admissible. It means something to your sovereignty. It means something about the governing system this little internet city state is having for itself. It means that if your integrity, in what it is that you see as truth is contrary to Bills or Inelia's or whoever else might ask Bill that someone be unsubbed for something that they find disagreeable to their heart or mind, and you speak it or print it outside of Avalon, ANYWHERE that they may find it in their presence, then YOU TOO are liable to be unsubscribed.

And this is bigger than a house. It is a mini city state to itself, and we are all residents. The house analogy is far too quaint and small a shell for this place.

So that their jurisdiction reaches right into and over your life. And it is a Forum, not God. So what gives it that right? we do? And so are we comfortable as citizens in saying that that's alright, you can have that jurisdiction over our lives? Potential it may only be, but real potential is it, and its first stone has indeed been cast, its precedent, its loud advocation, by the governance of Avalon. God has that right because that which is "god" is perfect; man may not have that one, cos he's not. Unless you are, in which case you'd already have my loyalty.

Oh but it's alright, we can say: there is no real offence, we are but travellers on different roads, with different missions etc. This may be a pretty way to dress it up, but the truth is somewhat closer to the bone. Good quality posters like Modwiz? To be removed for the sake of squalls, as impermanent as a finger smudge free mirror? That is just crap.

Well said Isostool.
A forum is not a house and is only as good as its current members.

We the members would be lacking in integrity if we did not speak up, out of fear of being "retired" ourselves, when we see such injustice!

[DeDukshyn]

Unlike everyone else here, I am not aware of all the details, past happenings, relationships, or the current reasoning behind Modwiz unsubbing, but I will say that I'll miss his smart ass sense of humour.... he was always good for adding a bit of flair.

[9eagle9]

This appears to be an on going symptom. The symptom being the suspension or voluntary leave of members is not the actual problem.

The underlying issue ......maybe a bit harder to ID, it has probably folded over on itself and transistioned to the point that every time it pops up again it appears to be something different but is still the original issue.

So what it is the core issue here that allows these tensions to burble up to the extent that members are either voluntarily leaving or suspended?

The problem is without form but people sense its there and its frustrating not to be able to bring it into the physical where it can be examined.

I'd have to state the obvious. We are not conventional people, this is not a conventional forum. We aren't discussing DIY projects and venison recipes we are delving into unknowns and that creates its own unique problems, drawns in a certain undesireable and unwanted element. Unknown quantitative cannot be addressed with known means, any more than unconventional people can be dealt with conventional means. And when dealing with the unknown we run the risk of overlooking the offenders and inadvertently punishing the innocent. Because we don't know.

[Mike]

frankly i cannot understand the indignation here. have we all read the 'Bill Ryan as guru' post at Nexus? have we noticed the support in the form of "thank you's"? this issue of where an insult or attack on character occurs and it's resulting relevance is pointless. if i had a friend that i was hanging around with being two-faced or stabbing me in the back, i wouldn't give a sh#t if he was doing it in the cellar of his house or in Timbuktu. you can dress this up verbally any way you like, but back-stabbing is back-stabbing, regardless of where it occurs.

modwiz was a solid contributor, yes. but go read that thread. he continually accuses Inelia of being a phony but offers no explanation whatsoever. over here he says something to the effect of feeling a powerful presence from her photo. over there he's singing a different tune. over here he's referencing her posts and encouraging other members to read them. over there,again, he's singing a different tune. (now i notice-in an effort to cover his tracks- he has invented some cockamamie excuse as to why he encouraged members to read her posts).

not only that, he accused Bill of exploiting Inelia- the "flavor of the month"- calling it a phony "promotion", and "creepy", implying Bill is some sort of snake oil salesman. he even likened him to P.T. Barnum, the promoter of hoaxes. he thanked a Celine post referring to Bill as a "fraud" and accused him of "peddling snake oil".

if i didn't know any better, i would have thought he was trying to get booted.

[DeDukshyn]

frankly i cannot understand the indignation here. have we all read the 'Bill Ryan as guru' post at Nexus? have we noticed the support in the form of "thank you's"? this issue of where an insult or attack on character occurs and it's resulting relevance is pointless. if i had a friend that i was hanging around with being two-faced or stabbing me in the back, i wouldn't give a sh#t if he was doing it in the cellar of his house or in Timbuktu. you can dress this up verbally any way you like, but back-stabbing is back-stabbing, regardless of where it occurs.

modwiz was a solid contributor, yes. but go read that thread. he continually accuses Inelia of being a phony but offers no explanation whatsoever. over here he says something to the effect of feeling a powerful presence from her photo. over there he's singing a different tune. over here he's referencing her posts and encouraging other members to read them. over there,again, he's singing a different tune. (now i notice-in an effort to cover his tracks- he has invented some cockamamie excuse as to why he encouraged members to read her posts).

not only that, he accused Bill of exploiting Inelia- the "flavor of the month"- calling it a phony "promotion", and "creepy", implying Bill is some sort of snake oil salesman. he even likened him to P.T. Barnum, the promoter of hoaxes. he thanked a Celine post referring to Bill as a "fraud" and accused him of "peddling snake oil".

if i didn't know any better, i would have thought he was trying to get booted.

I agree with your statement, I don't necessarily disagree with Bill's decision either, because I don't know ALL the details, the rationale, and like everyone else I would be a fool to assume I did. But in Modwiz' defense, and critique -- he had a stance such as that you had to know where he was coming from. I wasn't a "friend" of his but I did notice he liked to provoke thought through antagonism - which in itself isn't bad at all - I do it as well somewhat. But I also know that that carries risk and has to still be carried out with respect to any other member implicated. I don't know the posts which you are referring to, but I do know Inelia and her message is likely even a greater reason that the "crowd" was brought in by "Atticus", than for even his own intentions -- Process is goal, there are no coincidences, whether "good" or "evil", there are none.

[Chicodoodoo]

frankly i cannot understand the indignation here.

Remember the little boy that had the innocent audacity to point out that the emperor had no clothes? Is that back-stabbing? I'm sure the emperor thought so, but the crowd that was freed from its delusion by that single remark might disagree.

[Isostool]

Ladies and Gents of Avalon,

This is a heartfelt effort from me at addressing the issue. It is a difficult area for many reasons, and it is an effort to shed some light on the subject. I have done my best but no it's not the frikkin' Magna Carta - just one Ladies thoughts. alright? alright. Danger money at least, please.

Integrity is about being true to self. Having an integrity cleansing [a spiritual cleansing, a negativity cleansing, an can we please remove what the cat's dragged in [dressed up as Karmic cycle placing in correct new boxes, if you believe in that kind of sit - as judged by man, that is], call it what u will, I think we all have a grasp and sense at what it being suggested] at Avalon, as inferred in Limor's post to Goldenyears, is therefore about a program now focussing on a group of people deciding if they think a person is being true to self or not? And if they decide that they are not then they are deemed not fit for this community? This seriously enters into the territory of what is rightly only dwelling between a man and his god, a man and himself - is it right that a group of others sit in judgement of this and then use this judgement to deem us worth of this community or not?

And then to cut people off from their friends and community here by way of this, as a form of punishment for their sins? But not said as such, just dressed up as "just your vibration fits somewhere else" - and it IS a punishment - BECAUSE IT HURTS. Avalon has a responsibility to not hurt its members more than the other way around - why? Because Avalon is the bigger being in that it can absorb more debt - to take it out on beings less able to absorb the loss is - it is ignoble. It is wrong in the case of loving that which is less able to defend itself. It is not the chivalrous act and I would argue it is not in alignment with the most beneficial version of spiritual law either.

It is Avalon's responsibility, as the collective 'bigger being' here, I would argue, to embrace the unlovable and to create the reality of non separation. When you hold upon your shoulders your enemies you become untouchable. Continually ridding the system of a perceived problem is hurting innocent people and not fixing the real problem. This is a continuing issue at Avalon. In this case it is wise to embrace your enemies and accept them, not to try to wash off a thing that will not come off - the problem is with internal structure, system design, not the 'member people parts'.

The kind of laws (such as rules for exclusion/ i.e. a form of punishment and this IS a form of punishment, it is an act of severance) which are suitable for the management of the amount of people who can fit into a single person's living room in either reality or concept are just NOT suitable for the just governance of the amount of people who constitute a whole community. i.e. the idea of ruling this like a house, one person's personal living room, is not a big enough a management concept for this size system.

A smaller group of people can work well with either a monarchy or a tribal "big man" system [an 'this is my house' arrangement and a true anthropological term btw], but when the community gets to the size Avalon is now, this form of management just won't cut the mustard. There is far too much complexity and motion for one person's living room to suffice. Either Avalon had to remain at a small membership - much smaller than it is now - or the system of governance has to change.

Having fair laws which protect the citizens rights here, through storms of heart and judgement, which may come and go in the management system's human world, anyone's world, are in Avalon's best interests, I say. It protects the body of Avalon so that unwise things cannot happen which are not properly thought through or based on false premises during times in which a human system might be prone to err. This place is made up of the members. It is a partnership between he who owns this land (Bill) and the citizens, and this power must find its stability and equity, - where it works in the best interests of keeping the body which is Avalon healthy.

The parallel I have drawn with this threads title is from the time in English History from which the King Arthur legends are drawn [some people differ on this, but most agree] - From the Avingian rule of England of Henry II [plantagenet, ruled as King of England 1154–1189] and Eleanor of Aquitaine and two of their sons: King John and King Richard I, Richard the Lionheart. In order that the Monarch not have the power to rule the land upon his whim alone, King John [Ruled: 199-1216] was compelled to sign the Magna Carta - forcibly compelled, because he was a bit of git. It meant that the Monarch had to answer to the law as well. His grandfather Henry I was responsible for bringing England under good law in general and the the law itself came back upon his grandson to ensure that the law itself was universally respected. Kind of cool..

There is a kind of natural evolution to state formation which occurs in the world, in humankind. As population grows, as the intelligence of the populace grows, as the complexity grows - new ways of managing this system have to evolve and start moving the system forward. The process can be difficult or easy. Realising some of what is going on is a good start. If a system refuses to evolve, refuses to reform, then nature either breaks it roughly and bumpily into Tyranny as in Ancient Greece (in its original form Tyranny was actually very beneficial to the states which implemented it - it is only a some which gave it a bad name), which then became Democracy or Oligarchy (rule by the rich). Or the system stagnates (like China) and falls prey to more sophisticated systems. Some might like to say that China has found its way eventually, but I do disagree. And so do the babies forced to drink baby formula boosted with plastic powder to increase profits or perhaps the ones [the babies] made into the local delicacy "healthy soup", might also find their system somewhat backwards [look it up, I kid you not]...

A system either changes or dies. it is a hard rule of evolution, that one. Spirituality is there to serve the physical and to bow low so that it [the physical] may hoist itself up upon our backs in [our] servitude and deep love for our beloved who cannot do something for themselves for innocent reasons amany. In other words, we are the servant of that which is physical - and without us serving to change that which about us is physical what rights do we have to leave it behind? Conceptually? Actually? And in serving it, we would not wish to leave it behind for indeed it is an impossibility, for we are irrimovably that which of us which is physical [please read sentence again slowly... lol.. I promise it makes sense!! and yes sorry I make up words]. Natural selection is not an illusion of acadaemia. It is something that we may not leave behind, even though it is such a daemon of a sword, if it is that you understand it as that which is the irrimovably physical of you. You don't seek to change the unchangeable, you know it as the immovable axiom of omniversal creation and move around IT. or something like that. lol. And it can repel in the deepest of senses without even being detected. And it is the lightest just before the darkness of its solid anchored core - but in unification there is no separation.

If the laws at Avalon are inconsistent, and it does appears that they are, if we are defining integrity as consistency of being then this law code lacks consistency and hence integrity. To clarify: someone may say a criticism of David Wilcock here and of Bill here or of Bill anywhere it would seem and only the person who said it of Bill is questioned in their integrity? So Bill is above David Wilcock in importance then? And then we have the leniency shown to Gypsy Woman - she was abusive as hell and allowed to return. So that the picture we get is an inconsistent one. Not that personal differences and conditions should not be taken into account - they should - but still the picture is not ringing as a consistent one.

Also, I would call for Goldenyears, Modwiz, Lightblue, Nagual, and aroundthetable to be given back their membership rights. In an act of humility and goodwill.

I ask that there be a motion for humility to come sit for a while in the place that sits in moderation of Avalon. Who are we, fellow people, to judge what and what is not integrity to another human being? Who can say for sure that they know if another person they read or perceive or have evidence before them on is in THEIR truth or not. For if they are and you still judge them as not having integrity are you then saying that indeed they ARE in their integrity but that they are just not in an integrity that suits [I]you?

For purely an example among many that I could present to paint a conceptual picture; A good father may tell their little girl that no everything is alright, that is not an army at the threshold of our country (but there is) so that she stays feeling safe. A person may withhold knowledge of many different forms or natures, depending on the people, the place... and readiness for the information to be loved. Or not. All sorts of layers of the agenda of the one motion of the highest most healthy continuance of life may be found around us. What you judge as two faced may indeed be your own inability to see into a level of difficult polarity integration which another being may have mastered and be comfortable living (for eg.) - or in the process of mastering (and surely this difficult spiritual process should be lovingly held, for it is grand). What I am saying is that to judge it from your experiences is calling for a breath of humility - how can you truly say you are right and wrong in your judgement? And the consequences are so definite and hurtful to the person cut off from their community.

Avalon is like that for people - it has living energetic connections into people's lives and it hurts to be cut off from it. And those in charge of looking after those connections should make sure that the being with less to defend themself and more to lose - is properly defended and taken care of. I propose that Avalon should treat its subjects with a greater consciousness itself - in this act so let us see it become Grand - the entire consciousness of it shall rise.

These are my thoughts on it. I ask that I be allowed to remain here for I feel right here. It is not my wish to leave Avalon, it never has and as far as I can see it, it never will be. Thank you for listening.

The Lady who Sits [lol]

[qbeac]

frankly i cannot understand the indignation here.

Remember the little boy that had the innocent audacity to point out that the emperor had no clothes? Is that back-stabbing? I'm sure the emperor thought so, but the crowd that was freed from its delusion by that single remark might disagree.
I totally agree one more time with Chicodoodoo,

I must clarify that I have not been following what has happened with Modwiz and Goldenyears, so I have no idea of what they have said/done or not said/done. I’ve read in previous posts in this thread that some people think Modwiz has done something wrong, but Goldenyears hasn’t… but I don’t know.

In any case, the point I tried to make with my last post is this one:

Please, Bill and mods, let us know what those two persons have specifically done so that we can form our own judgment of the situation, instead of relying on your judgment (Bill Ryan and mods).

Because the expression “back-stabbing” Chinaski has used is only a figurative language expression which, as Chicodoodoo has very well pointed out, could be interpreted in very different ways (Ex: a just action or an abuse of power, censorship, etc.) according to who does the interpretation and why (Ex: the emperor, the innocent child, the rest of the people, etc.).

(Note: see last post of Chicodoodoo about the “emperor had no clothes” for more details).

So, please, Bill and mods, could you show us what those two persons (Modwiz and Goldenyears) have exactly done that goes against the Avalon rules and guidelines and which is as grave as to deserve a permanent banning?

Could you show us the exact posts where they said/did this or that? Please, give us a clear example of those posts.

If those posts exist and they are so obvious to see, we all should be able to see them, shouldn’t we?

Thanks.

P.S. And I will also add the cases of WhiteStar and Lee-Be, whose banning, in my opinion, could be argued that it was an injustice (that’s at least my personal opinion) and, as far as I know (and I don’t know if I’ve missed something) were never properly clarified.

And I think that lack of clarification (which has happened several times in this forum) is the reason why some people may feel upset about the current banning.

Let’s hope that lack of clarification doesn’t happen in this case again.

[Lord Sidious]

Before we all go making assumptions about what Limor has said and/done, why not pm her and ask her yourselves?
It would probably save a lot of grief.

[ThePythonicCow]

Nagual ... to be given back their membership rights
No one has taken away Nagual's membership rights.

He is a member in good standing of Project Avalon.

His last post was the thread It's time for me to move forward... (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?15689-It-s-time-for-me-to-move-forward...), posted on March 5, 2011 (over a month ago now.)

[noprophet]

Situational semantics aside, Avalon should look towards being a bit more transparent in its workings.

[Isostool]

Before we all go making assumptions about what Limor has said and/done, why not pm her and ask her yourselves?
It would probably save a lot of grief.

Sidious - Limor's email is posted at Nexus: http://nexus.2012info.ca/forum/showthread.php?1671-They-canceled-my-membership&p=12079&viewfull=1#post12079

¤=[Post Update]=¤



Nagual ... to be given back their membership rights
No one has taken away Nagual's membership rights.

He is a member in good standing of Project Avalon.

He last post was the thread It's time for me to move forward... (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?15689-It-s-time-for-me-to-move-forward...), posted on March 5, 2011 (over a month ago now.)

Ah, thank you Paul. He is under the impression he has had his membership revoked: http://nexus.2012info.ca/forum/showthread.php?1671-They-canceled-my-membership&p=12050&viewfull=1#post12050

[Lord Sidious]

Before we all go making assumptions about what Limor has said and/done, why not pm her and ask her yourselves?
It would probably save a lot of grief.

Sidious - Limor's email is posted at Nexus: http://nexus.2012info.ca/forum/showthread.php?1671-They-canceled-my-membership&p=12079&viewfull=1#post12079

I have seen it.
I have also seen some of the assumptions that come from it.
I don't know who pushed the button on goldenyears.
I don't know who was reading nexus for the info either.
What my message is to you, is that none of you know either, unless you do and are keeping it back.
So, if you don't know, why not pm her and ask her?

[Icecold]

A beautiful post Isostool. ;)

[Isostool]

Before we all go making assumptions about what Limor has said and/done, why not pm her and ask her yourselves?
It would probably save a lot of grief.

Sidious - Limor's email is posted at Nexus: http://nexus.2012info.ca/forum/showthread.php?1671-They-canceled-my-membership&p=12079&viewfull=1#post12079


I have seen it.
I have also seen some of the assumptions that come from it.
I don't know who pushed the button on goldenyears.
I don't know who was reading nexus for the info either.
What my message is to you, is that none of you know either, unless you do and are keeping it back.
So, if you don't know, why not pm her and ask her?

I am reasonably comfortable with the assumptions I have made here. For one thing, no one's membership [except mine] is threatened by the fact that I have made them. I am alright with the inferences and assumptions I have made - no ones severance rests upon them but mine. But if successful - at best it can halt further hurt to people.

[Lord Sidious]

Before we all go making assumptions about what Limor has said and/done, why not pm her and ask her yourselves?
It would probably save a lot of grief.

Sidious - Limor's email is posted at Nexus: http://nexus.2012info.ca/forum/showthread.php?1671-They-canceled-my-membership&p=12079&viewfull=1#post12079


I have seen it.
I have also seen some of the assumptions that come from it.
I don't know who pushed the button on goldenyears.
I don't know who was reading nexus for the info either.
What my message is to you, is that none of you know either, unless you do and are keeping it back.
So, if you don't know, why not pm her and ask her?

I am reasonably comfortable with the assumptions I have made here. For one thing, no one's membership [except mine] is threatened by the fact that I have made them. I am alright with the inferences and assumptions I have made - no ones severance rests upon them but mine. But if successful - at best it can halt further hurt to people.

For me, it isn't about who is gonna get the boot.
You are pointing the finger at someone without knowing whether what you say is accurate.
You could pm her and clarify it.
Funny enough, you are upset about a similar thing, people being treated in a certain way without having their input and now you are doing it too.
The honourable way is to approach the individual and ask the questions.
What if you are wrong and pointing at the wrong one?
If they won't answer, that is a different matter entirely.

[qbeac]

Situational semantics aside, Avalon should look towards being a bit more transparent in its workings.
Hi noprophet, please, let me add something else to your very right and well-chosen statement:

I am a follower and supporter of Project Camelot and Project Avalon since the beginning because I am interested in truth seeking projects and persons, and I thought that’s what both PC and PA stand for.

But in case it happens to be that any of them does not “live” the spirit of transparency (and everything that goes with it: honesty, integrity, etc.), as we are requesting about this banning case (Note: and I underline that I personally add the cases of WhiteStar and Lee-B), I don’t know about you, but I might have to reconsider my position.

Moreover, in case any Avalon staff has made a mistake in the banning of any of those persons (Modwiz, Goldenyears, WhiteStar, Lee-B), I believe the right thing to do would to apologize to them and reinstate their membership. And I am not talking about the whole group as “a group”, I am talking about “each case individually”, because they may be all different cases.

That public apology and restitution (in case it is the right thing to do depending on each different case) would be in alignment with the integrity ideals Bill has expressed and many others have supported.

[Isostool]

I am reasonably comfortable with the assumptions I have made here. For one thing, no one's membership [except mine] is threatened by the fact that I have made them. I am alright with the inferences and assumptions I have made - no ones severance rests upon them but mine. But if successful - at best it can halt further hurt to people.

For me, it isn't about who is gonna get the boot.
You are pointing the finger at someone without knowing whether what you say is accurate.
You could pm her and clarify it.
Funny enough, you are upset about a similar thing, people being treated in a certain way without having their input and now you are doing it too.
The honourable way is to approach the individual and ask the questions.
What if you are wrong and pointing at the wrong one?
If they won't answer, that is a different matter entirely.

As I said - I am reasonably comfortable with the assumptions I have made here. Limor's status as a member of this community is not at stake. I feel no need to do as you suggest, as warrented by my aims.

[qbeac]

Ladies and Gents of Avalon,

This is a heartfelt effort from me at addressing the issue. It is a difficult area for many reasons, and it is an effort to shed some light on the subject. I have done my best but no it's not the frikkin' Magna Carta - just one Ladies thoughts. alright? alright. Danger money at least, please.


...

Avalon is like that for people - it has living energetic connections into people's lives and it hurts to be cut off from it. And those in charge of looking after those connections should make sure that the being with less to defend themself and more to lose - is properly defended and taken care of. I propose that Avalon should treat its subjects with a greater consciousness itself - in this act so let us see it become Grand - the entire consciousness of it shall rise.

These are my thoughts on it. I ask that I be allowed to remain here for I feel right here. It is not my wish to leave Avalon, it never has and as far as I can see it, it never will be. Thank you for listening.

The Lady who Sits [lol]
Impressive post, Isostool, right on target, I subscribe it.

Now then, the fact that you have added this paragraph at the end of your post:



These are my thoughts on it. I ask that I be allowed to remain here for I feel right here. It is not my wish to leave Avalon, it never has and as far as I can see it, it never will be.

… as I was saying, the fact that you have added that paragraph, does it imply that some people may feel “fear” of speaking up or speaking out about certain things (such as healthy criticism of Project Avalon, etc.)? I mean that they may fear possible negative repercussions such as being banned…???

Is that why you added that paragraph?

If that’s the case (and all of you people can correct me if I am wrong) that would be a bad symptom because fear for being “respectfully sincere” should NEVER be a part of Project Avalon.

[9eagle9]

It is Avalon's responsibility, as the collective 'bigger being' here, I would argue, to embrace the unlovable and to create the reality of non separation. When you hold upon your shoulders your enemies you become untouchable.

What I'm about to describe is sort of difficult and rather challenges the statement of yours I copied Iso. Not because your post in its entirety should be opposed. In all other respects I agree with you but...

A problem I notice a LOT and this has nothing to do with unloveable people is that we challenge systems in here daily. In order to just be here in the first place we have collectively challenged a belief system. We were told the world was a certain way and most of the population happy-assholes their way through life under the impression that life is just that way. People in Avalon understand that life is not the way it was presented, a beleif was challenged and here we are. But the problem is that while we challenge systems many people have their self identity wrapped in an alternative belief to the extent when the beleif is examined, and found to be lacking, the person holding it perceives that they are faulty.

The concept becomes personal and conflicts arise. So we have tensions arising from the very thing we are purported to do here---challenge beliefs and systems. So do we take on the challenge of helping those conceptually self identified members understand that 'this isn't personal'. We have a mixed bag of people in here ones who are just learning to system bust and those who are a bit further along so conflict is going to arise from that.

To teach the self responsibility that goes with parading a beleif system out as a sort of educational or informational tool, also comes with the expectation that one must either know how to substantiate where they are coming from or otherwise expect someone to poke a whole in their theories? If one is attempting to educate with that sort of material and people find it it flawed is that an objectionable behavior? A desirable behavior? Some people feel they should challenge disinformation and others feel that others have a right to their beliefs. How do you mediate such a fine line.

You have to know how to do so.

A more sinister scenario....

We have a lot of vid, interviews and discussions about the types of psycho and sociopaths dominating our world. The behavior the PTB expresses. Much of our old conditioning was based in these sorts of attitudes. Not that we ourselves were psycho or sociopathic in nature but our old conditioning was sprung from there. But we watch these sorts of media and we all agree these attitudes are not desirable and will no longer be tolerated. Does that mean HERE too?

And some people have psycho and sociopathic attitudes either through conditioning or they are in fact psycho and sociopathic in nature and forums of this nature tend to draw them in. Do we know how to tell the difference?

They may be overt and they may be covert and it becomes difficult to deal with and they depend on our tolerance and uncertainty in order to do what they intend to do blur, distort and divide. Why, if we spend so much time watching media about those sorts of attitudes do we find them so hard to spot in our own bed? I doubt that its because they are so difficult to spot I think its difficult for people to trust what they are seeing, to have the authority to make the call in that way. Who has the authority to spot those attitudes, and who has the wherewithall to address them productively? That is out of alignment with a general agreement towards oneness but those sorts of attitudes are the main aggressor of Oneness. They are insidious attitudes and they are intent on destruction and there's really no way to abate them but to uncover them for what they are. Do we determine to take a 'loving the non-loveable attitude' or the attitude of non tolerance. Because I know the first one doesn't work. I'm not talking about disagreeable or contrary people but ....well basically one doesn't need to be ruling the world in order to hold the attitudes that our world's rulers hold. Once they know their attitudes will be tolerated they errorsion gains a free hand. This is a place where something that glitters may not be gold.

(I'm not suggesting that banned members are psycho sociopaths btw)

We run into is that some people are savvy enough to spot those attitudes and other people don't know them for what they are. I do know that element loves to divide and wreak havoc in forums such as this because of the uncertainty that people feel towards identifying those attitudes. We have learn to trust our intuition very much and be afraid to go there. Do we do that or do we go on as we have before.

Unfortunately just in our illusionary life , in order to root out the unseen, a conflict has to arise. That's basically how a unknown threat is ferreted out and that puts the person who is acting in integrity in nailing the destruction lurking within at risk of being viewed as an aggressor or a troll. But does it mean they are WRONG?

Very difficult but it is do-able.

So the community has to take a leap into the unknown and begin addressing the unseen at work and the challenges associated with rooting it out. That is why this forum has had this pattern of contention. The actual shadow lurking within has been , if not tolerated in the sake of unity, has been overlooked completely. Loving everyone and using tolerance doesn't work with those sorts of attitudes the way it does with other people. The aim isn't unification but destruction and division.

So its a difficult challenge. Do you tolerate it or take the plunge and begin challenging the unseen dragon?

[Isostool]

… as I was saying, the fact that you have added that paragraph, does it imply that some people may feel “fear” of speaking up or speaking out about certain things (such as healthy criticism of Project Avalon, etc.)? I mean that they may fear possible negative repercussions such as being banned…???

Is that why you added that paragraph?

If that’s the case (and all of you people can correct me if I am wrong) that would be a bad symptom because fear for being “respectfully sincere” should NEVER be a part of Project Avalon.

Well, by observing current events which have gone on around me, I feel like I am walking a bit of a line, yeah. but I do trust my judgement and instincts on what I have to say and how I say it.

[Isostool]

most of the population happy-assholes their way through life



lol@ "happy-assholes their way through life"

Is it a desirable behaviour to question the methodology being used in a particular situation? Yes, I think it is. Peer review is a very healthy way to evolve a thing. You walk that line by presenting your arguments in a debate about whatever methodology you are discussing - people choosing to believe a thing or not based on the evidence presented is not the issue as far as 'keeping the lines in place' goes.

I do not question the act per se, I question the methods used to ascertain those who are 'to be removed'. What is admissible evidence and what is not and WHY. The implications of using particular things - there are repercussions. There is also a way of thinking about this which says that in the embracement, the energy leaves of their own accord. When the line is as unclear as has been seen in these cases of late - to embrace should be reconsidered as the preferred methodology. And then on the other hand; when the line is perfectly clear, then perhaps it is to say that: it is clear.

And even then, there may be a good case for keeping the lines very, very liberal, if a system so wishes it and suits it. It is unique depending on the system at hand. But as it is - the line as I have seen it implemented here, has been placed in such a way that I would question strongly its serving of Avalon's [or anyone's] best interests. If you use evidence from outside of Avalon to justify removal of a member from Avalon then it means something - it means that everything and anything you say anywhere can be used in THIS court of law - and that is NOT right. It is crossing into places it has no well justified right to cross.

It is nobody's business why I [or anyone else I would extend it] do or do not thank a post or thank anything, either here or anywhere else. It means that it has been made personal. I do not agree that administration decisions, for one thing, should be about personal issues. As much as it can be helped. To do so keeps it fair. To allow it makes for bias. To allow bias creates a cloudiness which makes it even more difficult to see the forest in the trees. Justice is the essence of clarity - it's field is the eagle's eye. The cool sword of Justice is there to keep us safe, and it belongs to us, in a universally downloadable and implementable manner.

[ViralSpiral]

When you hold upon your shoulders your enemies you become untouchable.

The Lady who Sits [lol]


Dearest Lady who Sits, but definitely does not just sits!

I deeply admire and respect your intent. I could feel your pain as you were processing the actions of some, and I agree that writing is an expression of healing. Through this, I too learn and heal. So, thank you!

I have been thinking about your statement above and couldn't quite make up my mind whether this is noble or not. I recall this parable.....

Scorpion wants to cross a river, but can't swim. Goes to the frog, who can and asks for a ride. Frog says, "If give you a ride on my back, you'll go and sting me." Scorpion replies, "It would not be in my interest to sting you since as I'll be on your back we both would drown." Frog thinks about this logic a while and accepts the deal. Takes the scorpion on his back. Braves the waters. Halfway over feels a burning spear in hi side and realizes the scorpion has stung him after all. And as they both sink beneath the waves the frog cries out: "Why did you sting me, Mr. Scorpion, for now we both will drown?" Scorpion replies, "I can't help it, it's in my nature."

As the proverbial saying goes: the only guarantee in life is change. The intensity of these frequencies changes, moves all of us to react differently, and even though we play in a public fairground, we have a host. Drink the beer and sing, or sulk on the swing.

I was a little disappointed at some of the feedback in the other thread, which I will not be rejoining. The tintinnabulation is not apeeling :D

If regrouping is indeed happening, then like will find like.

Once again, sincere thanks for your true heart!!





p.s. Enjoy your vac Icecold, but please hurry back!!!

[Lord Sidious]

most of the population happy-assholes their way through life



lol@ "happy-assholes their way through life"

Is it a desirable behaviour to question the methodology being used in a particular situation? Yes, I think it is. Peer review is a very healthy way to evolve a thing. You walk that line by presenting your arguments in a debate about whatever methodology you are discussing - people choosing to believe a thing or not based on the evidence presented is not the issue as far as 'keeping the lines in place' goes.

I do not question the act per se, I question the methods used to ascertain those who are 'to be removed'. What is admissible evidence and what is not and WHY. The implications of using particular things - there are repercussions. There is also a way of thinking about this which says that in the embracement, the energy leaves of their own accord. When the line is as unclear as has been seen in these cases of late - to embrace should be reconsidered as the preferred methodology. And then on the other hand; when the line is perfectly clear, then perhaps it is to say that: it is clear.

And even then, there may be a good case for keeping the lines very, very liberal, if a system so wishes it and suits it. It is unique depending on the system at hand. But as it is - the line as I have seen it implemented here, has been placed on ground which there is argument to say is not serving Avalon's best interests. If you use evidence from outside of Avalon to justify removal of a member from Avalon then it means something - it means that everything and anything you say anywhere can be used in THIS court of law - and that is NOT right. It is crossing into places it has no well justified right to cross.

It is nobody's business why I [or anyone else I would extend it] do or do not thank a post or thank anything, either here or anywhere else. It means that it has been made personal. I do not agree that administration decisions, for one thing, should be about personal issues. As much as it can be helped. To do so keeps it fair. To allow it makes for bias. To allow bias creates a cloudiness which makes it even more difficult to see the forest in the trees. Justice is the essence of clarity - it's field is the eagle's eye. The cool sword of Justice is there to keep us safe, and it belongs to us, in a universally downloadable and implementable manner.

On the same token, you are saying that you don't believe people should be condemned for their opinions without a reason, yet you don't apply that to Limor too?
Can you tell me that you know she has the ability to ban anyone?
That she did ban anyone?
So the intent you had, is not consistent with your treatment of her.
You WERE correct in your initial questions in the thread, but now you are doing to Limor what you complain the mod team has done to the members who were banned.

[Isostool]

When you hold upon your shoulders your enemies you become untouchable.

The Lady who Sits [lol]

I have been thinking about your statement above and couldn't quite make up my mind whether this is noble or not. I recall this parable.....

Scorpion wants to cross a river, but can't swim. Goes to the frog, who can and asks for a ride. Frog says, "If give you a ride on my back, you'll go and sting me." Scorpion replies, "It would not be in my interest to sting you since as I'll be on your back we both would drown." Frog thinks about this logic a while and accepts the deal. Takes the scorpion on his back. Braves the waters. Halfway over feels a burning spear in hi side and realizes the scorpion has stung him after all. And as they both sink beneath the waves the frog cries out: "Why did you sting me, Mr. Scorpion, for now we both will drown?" Scorpion replies, "I can't help it, it's in my nature."

As the proverbial saying goes: the only guarantee in life is change.


Yes. There is a deeper point here about this one.

The first I would address is that we are the frog of frogs and the scorpion of scorpions. We are reality masters in that we can create for ourselves a shape which makes sure that all the deathly implements of our enemies are held in such a way so that no risk becomes the carrier. This is a measure which is about judging one's own systems ability to DO so, it requires good design and maintenance and risk management understandings. But in mastering it, one does not have to worry so much about 'what one may come across', and a system can become more effectacious in a wide ranging terrain. Valuable I think.

The second is about the definitions of enemies and non enemies. Scorpion or frog is relative, depending on your position. If your scorpion thinks you are a frog then good for him. If you know what I mean. And this point is a deep and wise one. For your truth is your truth and you must be available to move with it, for if you do not, then it will cut you like the immovable rock it is. One must always be on the ready and at peace with their intent and motivations, do you understand what I am meaning? It is to know thyself. And you answer to yourself, alone, within... and to your 'god', whatever its measure.

[ViralSpiral]

I agree with M'Lord. Have you considered that the mail was written, in sympathy? Just a thought..... dunno.
Assumption until addressed at source.

[ViralSpiral]

The second is about the definitions of enemies and non enemies. Scorpion or frog is relative, depending on your position. If your scorpion thinks you are a frog then good for him. If you know what I mean.

Totally! And we are all frogs and scorpions. What need to remain vigilant (judging one's own system) to see who is playing which role and then "move"
I am not 100% convinced I would carry the enemy.

[Isostool]

The second is about the definitions of enemies and non enemies. Scorpion or frog is relative, depending on your position. If your scorpion thinks you are a frog then good for him. If you know what I mean.

Totally! And we are all frogs and scorpions. What need to remain vigilant (judging one's own system) to see who is playing which role and then "move"
I am not 100% convinced I would carry the enemy.

Ah but then, they're in your hands. ;)

[ViralSpiral]

hehe, indeed!!!
oh okay, I will have to readjust my thinking

/me is off to ponder in a ponderous pond....



0auCDOERZyE

[Mike]

frankly i cannot understand the indignation here.

Remember the little boy that had the innocent audacity to point out that the emperor had no clothes? Is that back-stabbing? I'm sure the emperor thought so, but the crowd that was freed from its delusion by that single remark might disagree.

Chico, why was the little boy so audacious in one forum and not the other? character attacks do not serve to innocently or gently point out anything. and yes, calling someone a fraud is a character attack. a million long-winded explanations on "relative integrity" and "figurative language vulnerable to misinterpretation" won't change that.

and if you're going to call someone a fraud or hoaxer, please - BACK IT UP. as far as Inelia goes, i know no more about her than anyone else here. all i know is that a video interview is forthcoming sometime in the near future. until then, i wait-my ass sitting firmly on the fence. i fail to see how any judgement can be made on her. good or bad.

as far as Bill aka the emperor having no clothes - please elaborate. i challenge you and anyone who supports this statement to speak up and explain exactly what is meant by it. if your answer is something to the effect of "if you don't know by now you'll never know" or "i have incriminating info but cannot share it" etc or some other asinine response, please refrain from answering. i ask respectfully that words like "intuition", "feelings", "dreams" etc be left out as well. in simple, plain language, please explain this position.

this isn't so much a "call out" as it is a vehicle for my curiosity. and maybe a few others. if there's something off about Bill, do tell. as a member of this forum and long time follower of Camelot/Avalon, i'd really like to know. and if there isn't, lets stop with the bullsh#t.

[DeDukshyn]

Wow, a bit off topic I suppose but it's hard to find a post on Nexus that isn't just rubbish gossip. seriously! WTF!?? What is that site supposed to be anyway? I can't figure it out with all the name calling, people bashing, **** hurling, Wah-Wha!, Me too!, happening there.. LOL seriously folks ... WTF? is there nothing better to do than judge and criticize others with a plank in your eye? Thank God for Avalon and the new direction! If you don't resonate here please go to Nexus and express low frequency there, not here! .... some people's children ....

[grapevine]

frankly i cannot understand the indignation here. have we all read the 'Bill Ryan as guru' post at Nexus? have we noticed the support in the form of "thank you's"? this issue of where an insult or attack on character occurs and it's resulting relevance is pointless. if i had a friend that i was hanging around with being two-faced or stabbing me in the back, i wouldn't give a sh#t if he was doing it in the cellar of his house or in Timbuktu. you can dress this up verbally any way you like, but back-stabbing is back-stabbing, regardless of where it occurs.

modwiz was a solid contributor, yes. but go read that thread. he continually accuses Inelia of being a phony but offers no explanation whatsoever. over here he says something to the effect of feeling a powerful presence from her photo. over there he's singing a different tune. over here he's referencing her posts and encouraging other members to read them. over there,again, he's singing a different tune. (now i notice-in an effort to cover his tracks- he has invented some cockamamie excuse as to why he encouraged members to read her posts).

not only that, he accused Bill of exploiting Inelia- the "flavor of the month"- calling it a phony "promotion", and "creepy", implying Bill is some sort of snake oil salesman. he even likened him to P.T. Barnum, the promoter of hoaxes. he thanked a Celine post referring to Bill as a "fraud" and accused him of "peddling snake oil".

if i didn't know any better, i would have thought he was trying to get booted.

Well said mate ! xx

[grapevine]

I've never spoken out before because a) Ostrich like I thought it would all go away and b) I'm not 'senior' enough for anyone to take any notice but I'm up with Chinaski. Perhaps the links to the nexus forum should be deleted. I went there by mistake (following a link) and would not wish to be associated with anyone on that forum in any shape or form .... This is Project Avalon !

[DeDukshyn]

I've never spoken out before because a) Ostrich like I thought it would all go away and b) I'm not 'senior' enough for anyone to take any notice but I'm up with Chinaski. Perhaps the links to the nexus forum should be deleted. I went there by mistake (following a link) and would not wish to be associated with anyone on that forum in any shape or form .... This is Project Avalon !

While my post above says it, I'll re-iterate --- I couldn't agree more. But I will still miss Modwiz' smartass sense of humour!

[king anthony]

I do not know anything about the topic of discussion; however, I will say Modwiz and I chatted briefly on occasion and I found him to be a nice person – meaning he never did any “harm” to me.

The point of this post (of mine) is to say, I have noticed how it appears that some members have been attempting “forum suicide” (I am not saying this is/was the case here). The question that should be asked is “what is going on behind the scenes” – and I do not mean within Avalon or the MODs; for clarity, what forces may be at work affecting (or trying to) “some” members.

I now remain silent on this matter.

[9eagle9]

I do not know anything about the topic of discussion; however, I will say Modwiz and I chatted briefly on occasion and I found him to be a nice person – meaning he never did any “harm” to me.

The point of this post (of mine) is to say, I have noticed how it appears that some members have been attempting “forum suicide” (I am not saying this is/was the case here). The question that should be asked is “what is going on behind the scenes” – and I do not mean within Avalon or the MODs; for clarity, what forces may be at work affecting (or trying to) “some” members.

I now remain silent on this matter.

Exactly what I stated earlier. There are things lurking beneath the surface here and until we begin eyeballing it it will just keep creating conflict.

[Buchanan561]

I received a mail from golden years. She requested that I inform Chicodoodoo how greatful she is for the support he and others have shone to her. Instead of putting her words into my words I would like to share her mail to me in its entirety. She is a great friend of mine. And a friend to many on this forum. Here it is and I do this in respect of all.

"Oh god Emma,
Ive been brought to tears a few times at all the support from people....you, Edina, Janos, Modwiz, Icecold ( xxvid xxand...you've seen his name on my email list when i have forwarded things) Isotool, qubeac, and others that have pm'd me on Nexus......

If you ever get a chance.....thank Chicodoodoo for me on PA, he doesnt know me, but Ive seen his posts on the Integrity and Magna Carta threads and he's been hammering it out. :)

Your words are very comforting Emma. I guess I feel frustrated because I want to say to all those people who doubt my intentions...."but you dont understand, Im just Vic...Im Mom, Im grandma, Im wife, Im sister....Im not out to take anybody down...Im out there questioning and challenging and learning like the rest of you....Im not a troll, a troublemaker, a sociopath...Im just looking for the truth like you are...Im just this middle aged lady who loves to kiss and hug her husband, and children and animals, and friends, and family... Im just Vic who loves to dig in the dirt and watch things grow, and sit and watch nature....Im just Vic who loves to laugh at a good joke and the funny things my animals do. Im just Vic that loves to create and make beautiful things.....Im just Vic!!

But I cant because some will say Im making it up.....or so what, you could still be a sociopath, or a troll.

That's why Im so open of face book ....you've seen all my family pictures there...you know Im real..

Anways, I guess Im just blathering here...but I think you get my point.

I guess all we can do is watch and wait......

I am smiling Emma, I feel much love and protection surrounding me!

Love you dear,
Vicki"


She is not a troll. She is like the rest of us. Searching for answers. Wanting to know more. Wants to question and get others points of view and not just stay stagnant in her own. She is us. She belongs. The others belong who were cast out. I say....cast the stone out of your own eye before you try to cast it out of others. My love to both forums and all members always. Emma :help::help::help::help::help::help:

[DeDukshyn]

I do not know anything about the topic of discussion; however, I will say Modwiz and I chatted briefly on occasion and I found him to be a nice person – meaning he never did any “harm” to me.

The point of this post (of mine) is to say, I have noticed how it appears that some members have been attempting “forum suicide” (I am not saying this is/was the case here). The question that should be asked is “what is going on behind the scenes” – and I do not mean within Avalon or the MODs; for clarity, what forces may be at work affecting (or trying to) “some” members.

I now remain silent on this matter.

Exactly what I stated earlier. There are things lurking beneath the surface here and until we begin eyeballing it it will just keep creating conflict.

The way I like to think of it is this: ... Put "pressure" on someone or some"people" and their true colours will be forced to the surface for you to see. Or even, everyone can display beautiful colours while not under stress, stress them hard then see what happens ... Sometimes it will not be what you expect. As someone in a management position, this is a tactic I use to determine who is a good player or not; throw them into the fire and see what happens. If they get the job done and brush it off without any negative frequencies - hire him/her full time.

[9eagle9]

It amounts to the same thing. Socio and psychopathic people and those who are under the influence (handled) REACT to specific lines of questioning. This is how an exorcist determines who is under the influence and how.

They're key things they say. It's text book. Collective hive mind influence, they all react the same way when certain things are wiggled into the conversation or they are confronted with a specific question. Without fail they respond the same way.

The person doing the questioning (questing) appears to be the aggressor though and that sort of socio-psychopathic attitudes are clever enough to know that the very system put in place to keep peace is the very system that gives them the most cover. Because a confrontation has to be initiated to flush them out.

[DeDukshyn]

It amounts to the same thing. Socio and psychopathic people and those who are under the influence (handled) REACT to specific lines of questioning. This is how an exorcist determines who is under the influence and how.

They're key things they say. It's text book. Collective hive mind influence, they all react the same way when certain things are wiggled into the conversation or they are confronted with a specific question. Without fail they respond the same way.

The person doing the questioning (questing) appears to be the aggressor though and that sort of socio-psychopathic attitudes are clever enough to know that the very system put in place to keep peace is the very system that gives them the most cover. Because a confrontation has to be initiated to flush them out.

Brave and true words IMHO. I'm still gonna miss Modwiz tho' ... ;-)

[DeDukshyn]

Goldenyears too, has been unsubscribed but I am aware of even less details of her case than modwiz's.

Hmmm... she's logged on right now? ... Maybe I'm not getting something here ....?

Or perhaps there's more smoke and mirrors here than expected ... ? please someone enlighten me ;)

[Lord Sidious]

Goldenyears too, has been unsubscribed but I am aware of even less details of her case than modwiz's.

Hmmm... she's logged on right now? ... Maybe I'm not getting something here ....?

Or perhaps there's more smoke and mirrors here than expected ... ? please someone enlighten me ;)

Her name is in grey meaning she can read, but that is about all she can do.

[DeDukshyn]

Goldenyears too, has been unsubscribed but I am aware of even less details of her case than modwiz's.

Hmmm... she's logged on right now? ... Maybe I'm not getting something here ....?

Or perhaps there's more smoke and mirrors here than expected ... ? please someone enlighten me ;)

Her name is in grey meaning she can read, but that is about all she can do.

Ahh, so like provisional status? I see. Thanks for the clarification!

[Snowbird]

Jendayi-this is the time of reckoning.. no more secrets, no more lies... tell us why all of this is happening.. let's stop beating around the bush, shall we?



9eagle9-The underlying issue ......maybe a bit harder to ID, it has probably folded over on itself and transistioned to the point that every time it pops up again it appears to be something different but is still the original issue.

So what it is the core issue here that allows these tensions to burble up to the extent that members are either voluntarily leaving or suspended?

The problem is without form but people sense its there and its frustrating not to be able to bring it into the physical where it can be examined.

In my opinion, what is taking place on this forum is also taking place in the lives of each of us. We are experiencing separation as we each/all travel with the Earth into a higher state of vibrational frequency or traveling through a paradigm shift which can be defined as a change from one way of thinking to another. We are all/each in the state of a process of change. And change, as we know, is not always easy to transition.

The problem as I see it, is that because we are each unique and uniquely different, these changes are happening at different times and at different rates. Some people are welcoming in the new energies that are flowing in. Some people are not even aware that new energies are flowing in and have no basis from which to define or recognize what they are experiencing. And, I have also learned that some of us don't understand what is happening and our bodies end up rejecting or attempting to thwart or work against the changes that are taking place. I had to go into deep meditation yesterday to ask for help to unblock some energies coming in that were actually causing me physical pain. I asked for help yesterday while in pain and today there is no sign of the pain that has existed for months. I have been suffering for months because I forgot to ask for help.

Bill Ryan and Inelia and Kerry Cassidy are no more immune from these changes than anyone of us on this forum. Those who have left to post over on the Nexus forum are also transitioning through this. This isn't a contest nor is there punishment but these degrees of change and transition, cause separation. That is the reason that people are grouping together. People are now joining others whose vibrational frequencies match their own or are similar to their own. And, separation is uncomfortable. It sometimes hurts. It is also needed.

The short video below really demonstrates what human beings are now experiencing. The separation forms patterns or groupings with each higher frequency. Project Avalon is going through this same patterning.

Sound and Salt

IuyQSZX8HMI&feature

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuyQSZX8HMI&feature=related

[noxon medem]

- so, A silly posting
now is deleted by me

here an image, instead :

7090

7093

7091

7092

all well
nm

[DeDukshyn]

Wow, a bit off topic I suppose but it's hard to find a post on Nexus that isn't just rubbish gossip. seriously! WTF!?? What is that site supposed to be anyway? I can't figure it out with all the name calling, people bashing, **** hurling, Wah-Wha!, Me too!, happening there.. LOL seriously folks ... WTF? is there nothing better to do than judge and criticize others with a plank in your eye? Thank God for Avalon and the new direction! If you don't resonate here please go to Nexus and express low frequency there, not here! .... some people's children ....

Well, well, DeDukshyn.
I am following both the Nexus community and the Avalon forum.
Your post, reluctantly quoted here, is the worst example of
unjustified low frequency expression I have seen on any
of the forums the last weeks.
Congratulations !
:clap2:
ROFLMAO

Anytime you want a literal description just give me call; for you, no charge!!! :peace: Enjoy Nexus! It was made for people like YOU!!! =)

[noxon medem]

.....

7094


An excerpt from a post in the nexus community:


Very nice to be here and to see Nexus growing.
As more people wake up, and grow up, we better have many wellrun forums like this
going, maybe all with a different flaire, and atmosphere, on a common motivation and
peacefully co-existing, even interacting and overlapping and complementing each other.
( So, I guess that goes for this forum as well .. :- )

.....

:)

[DeDukshyn]

Wow, a bit off topic I suppose but it's hard to find a post on Nexus that isn't just rubbish gossip. seriously! WTF!?? What is that site supposed to be anyway? I can't figure it out with all the name calling, people bashing, **** hurling, Wah-Wha!, Me too!, happening there.. LOL seriously folks ... WTF? is there nothing better to do than judge and criticize others with a plank in your eye? Thank God for Avalon and the new direction! If you don't resonate here please go to Nexus and express low frequency there, not here! .... some people's children ....

Well, well, DeDukshyn.
I am following both the Nexus community and the Avalon forum.
Your post, reluctantly quoted here, is the worst example of
unjustified low frequency expression I have seen on any
of the forums the last weeks.
Congratulations !
:clap2:
ROFLMAO

Hi all, take a look for yourself .... Don't take my "negative" words for it ... draw your own conclusions in spirit of Noxon Medems post.. I'm not trying to bring any one person down .. but take a look at this thread here to see who is ....

http://nexus.2012info.ca/forum/showthread.php?1671-They-canceled-my-membership&p=12079&viewfull=1#post12079

And the account in question wasn't even cancelled ... draw your own conclusions please.

==Update== Hmm and that was even one of the "Tamer" threads, the one I saw earlier was just ridiculous with all the personal bashing of folks -- something not allowed here, hence why I am here and not there. I'll dig up the exact Nexus thread that soured me so if someone asks ...


Edit: correct link here:http://nexus.2012info.ca/forum/showthread.php?1671-They-canceled-my-membership&p=12050&viewfull=1#post12050

Thanks Iso for pointing that out

[thunder24]

:spy:Removed post after a good nights sleep and the request by Noxon not "they" to do so. Though this is removed, its still a public not private forum. Integrity in tact, and opinions change.
Get ahold of your emotions before replying.
peace

[noxon medem]

Wow, a bit off topic I suppose but it's hard to find a post on Nexus that isn't just rubbish gossip. seriously! WTF!?? What is that site supposed to be anyway? I can't figure it out with all the name calling, people bashing, **** hurling, Wah-Wha!, Me too!, happening there.. LOL seriously folks ... WTF? is there nothing better to do than judge and criticize others with a plank in your eye? Thank God for Avalon and the new direction! If you don't resonate here please go to Nexus and express low frequency there, not here! .... some people's children ....

Well, well, DeDukshyn.
I am following both the Nexus community and the Avalon forum.
Your post, reluctantly quoted here, is the worst example of
unjustified low frequency expression I have seen on any
of the forums the last weeks.
Congratulations !
:clap2:
ROFLMAO

Hi all, take a look for yourself .... Don't take my "negative" words for it ... draw your own conclusions in spirit of Noxon Medems post.. I'm not trying to bring any one person down .. but take a look at this thread here to see who is ....

http://nexus.2012info.ca/forum/showthread.php?1671-They-canceled-my-membership&p=12079&viewfull=1#post12079

And the account in question wasn't even cancelled ... draw your own conclusions please.

==Update== Hmm and that was even one of the "Tamer" threads, the one I saw earlier was just ridiculous with all the personal bashing of folks -- something not allowed here, hence why I am here and not there. I'll dig up the exact Nexus thread that soured me so if someone asks ...

Keyword is unjustified, DeDukshyn.
There is a restraint and civility in that thread that is admirable,
considering what kind of behavior these people have been subject
to from some moderators here at this forum.
What reasons can you show, to justify your negativity ?

edit:
Please read all of the posts in that and similar threads.
You will see that the "retired" ones are realy hurt by this
and do not understand what is happening here.
The ranting and complaining is part of a healingprocess,
and tolerated on the nexusforum in that spirit.
Not as a permanent state of affairs.

[king anthony]

Exactly what I stated earlier.

...oops...

:)

[DeDukshyn]

Wow, a bit off topic I suppose but it's hard to find a post on Nexus that isn't just rubbish gossip. seriously! WTF!?? What is that site supposed to be anyway? I can't figure it out with all the name calling, people bashing, **** hurling, Wah-Wha!, Me too!, happening there.. LOL seriously folks ... WTF? is there nothing better to do than judge and criticize others with a plank in your eye? Thank God for Avalon and the new direction! If you don't resonate here please go to Nexus and express low frequency there, not here! .... some people's children ....

Well, well, DeDukshyn.
I am following both the Nexus community and the Avalon forum.
Your post, reluctantly quoted here, is the worst example of
unjustified low frequency expression I have seen on any
of the forums the last weeks.
Congratulations !
:clap2:
ROFLMAO

Hi all, take a look for yourself .... Don't take my "negative" words for it ... draw your own conclusions in spirit of Noxon Medems post.. I'm not trying to bring any one person down .. but take a look at this thread here to see who is ....

http://nexus.2012info.ca/forum/showthread.php?1671-They-canceled-my-membership&p=12079&viewfull=1#post12079

And the account in question wasn't even cancelled ... draw your own conclusions please.

==Update== Hmm and that was even one of the "Tamer" threads, the one I saw earlier was just ridiculous with all the personal bashing of folks -- something not allowed here, hence why I am here and not there. I'll dig up the exact Nexus thread that soured me so if someone asks ...

Keyword is unjustified, DeDukshyn.
There is a restraint and civility in that thread that is admirable,
considering what kind of behavior these people have been subject
to from some moderators here at this forum.
What reasons can you show, to justify your negativity ?

edit:
Please read all of the posts in that and similar threads.
You will see that the "retired" ones are realy hurt by this
and do not understand what is happening here.
The ranting and complaining is part of a healingprocess,
and tolerated on the nexusforum in that spirit.
Not as a permanent state of affairs.

I was negative toward absolutely no individual ever in all my posts and that integrity continues. Read all my posts here please.
In the spirit of "licking wounds" as you suggest, I suppose I will tolerate some negative behaviour at Nexus toward individuals here, (but understand I don't "do" those things as there is no gain); you obviously hold it in some regard, thus, I will not write it off completely until I have had a better chance to explore further content there.
And by "Restraint in civility" I hope you aren't insinuating that there is usually much more **** throwing happening there? =)

[noxon medem]

The Nexus forum is in its forming and is also now
comprised of a lot of the "exiled" members from here.
They feel the need to speak their case, and vent their
frustrations, and are forbidden that possibility here.

I am just saying it is understandable, the tone from
some of the members on the thread you reference.
It is a periode-thing and could easily be worse.
(in all fairness)

You must not confuse my role in this, as I am still here
also. As are many nexus-members.

all well
nm

[Chicodoodoo]

if you're going to call someone a fraud or hoaxer, please - BACK IT UP.

No, I'm not calling anyone anything. I was just pointing out that Avalon is showing some indignation for the same reason the emperor's subjects were showing some indignation. In that case, at least, the crowd could let off steam by laughing at the emperor's nakedness. We don't have that safety valve.

I'm also not making any judgments about Inelia. I only respond to the ideas expressed by her words. I have no reason to doubt that she is a lovely person. I'm looking forward to her interview with Bill as much as you are.

I am also not accusing Bill of being an emperor with no clothes. I have great admiration and respect for Bill, so much so that I am convinced that he will come up with a good solution that will help prevent further splintering of Avalon and maybe even reunite many of our former comrades back into the fold. Perhaps I am overly optimistic, but "a house divided cannot stand", "to forgive is divine", etc.

I am happy to satisfy your curiosity, Chinaski, and I assure you that I make every effort not to deal in "bullsh#t". And I very much appreciate you verifying that fact with your vigilance.

[DeDukshyn]

"to forgive is divine"


Yes absolutely, when it is honoured with consistency and without prejudice toward all people. The question is ... should we only hold "others" to this, or only hold "ourselves" to this. Because it only works in one of those ways. I forgave my ex for getting pregnant with my best friends kid. But it doesn't mean I have to be with her either (amazingly though, I am ;))

[Isostool]

Wow, a bit off topic I suppose but it's hard to find a post on Nexus that isn't just rubbish gossip. seriously! WTF!?? What is that site supposed to be anyway? I can't figure it out with all the name calling, people bashing, **** hurling, Wah-Wha!, Me too!, happening there.. LOL seriously folks ... WTF? is there nothing better to do than judge and criticize others with a plank in your eye? Thank God for Avalon and the new direction! If you don't resonate here please go to Nexus and express low frequency there, not here! .... some people's children ....

Well, well, DeDukshyn.
I am following both the Nexus community and the Avalon forum.
Your post, reluctantly quoted here, is the worst example of
unjustified low frequency expression I have seen on any
of the forums the last weeks.
Congratulations !
:clap2:
ROFLMAO

Anytime you want a literal description just give me call; for you, no charge!!! :peace: Enjoy Nexus! It was made for people like YOU!!! =)

ROFL David Hume says: Induction rather than deduction is obviously the order of the day here.... lol...:)

[DeDukshyn]

Wow, a bit off topic I suppose but it's hard to find a post on Nexus that isn't just rubbish gossip. seriously! WTF!?? What is that site supposed to be anyway? I can't figure it out with all the name calling, people bashing, **** hurling, Wah-Wha!, Me too!, happening there.. LOL seriously folks ... WTF? is there nothing better to do than judge and criticize others with a plank in your eye? Thank God for Avalon and the new direction! If you don't resonate here please go to Nexus and express low frequency there, not here! .... some people's children ....

Well, well, DeDukshyn.
I am following both the Nexus community and the Avalon forum.
Your post, reluctantly quoted here, is the worst example of
unjustified low frequency expression I have seen on any
of the forums the last weeks.
Congratulations !
:clap2:
ROFLMAO

Anytime you want a literal description just give me call; for you, no charge!!! :peace: Enjoy Nexus! It was made for people like YOU!!! =)

ROFL David Hume says: Induction rather than deduction is obviously the order of the day here.... lol...:)

Good one! That was pretty funny actually ... ;)

[Isostool]

Hi all, take a look for yourself .... Don't take my "negative" words for it ... draw your own conclusions in spirit of Noxon Medems post.. I'm not trying to bring any one person down .. but take a look at this thread here to see who is ....

http://nexus.2012info.ca/forum/showthread.php?1671-They-canceled-my-membership&p=12079&viewfull=1#post12079

And the account in question wasn't even cancelled ... draw your own conclusions please.



I have clicked this like 5 times to make sure then examined the post number: The post is by goldenyears: post12079. Her account was cancelled.

The entire thread was begun by her. About her account being cancelled, which it indeed was.

My conclusion is that logic is amiss.

[noxon medem]

- Aaahhhh .... ( oh, yeah ..)..

Yes, of course ...
- Peace

7089
( put that in your pipe and smoke it )

I think you can make tea
of (on) good peace, also ..

all well .
nm

[DeDukshyn]

Hi all, take a look for yourself .... Don't take my "negative" words for it ... draw your own conclusions in spirit of Noxon Medems post.. I'm not trying to bring any one person down .. but take a look at this thread here to see who is ....

http://nexus.2012info.ca/forum/showthread.php?1671-They-canceled-my-membership&p=12079&viewfull=1#post12079

And the account in question wasn't even cancelled ... draw your own conclusions please.



I have clicked this like 5 times to make sure then examined the post number: The post is by goldenyears: post12079. Her account was cancelled.

The entire thread was begun by her. About her account being cancelled, which it indeed was.

My conclusion is that logic is amiss.

That is an error - I was referring to Nagual's post at the top of that page, I copied from the address bar on the thread - not sure how I ended up linking to the middle of the page - I assumed it would just bring up the page from the top

[ViralSpiral]

It's astounding
Time is fleeting
Madness takes its toll
But listen closely

Not for very much longer

It's so dreamy
Oh, fantasy free me
So you can't see me
No, not at all
In another dimension
With voyeuristic intention
Well secluded, I see all


With a bit of a mind flip
You're into the time slip
And nothing can ever be the same
You're spaced out on sensation
Like you're under sedation.....

(from the Rocky Horror Picture Show)



have we all gone mad?

[andywight]

Wow, a bit off topic I suppose but it's hard to find a post on Nexus that isn't just rubbish gossip. seriously! WTF!?? What is that site supposed to be anyway? I can't figure it out with all the name calling, people bashing, **** hurling, Wah-Wha!, Me too!, happening there.. LOL seriously folks ... WTF? is there nothing better to do than judge and criticize others with a plank in your eye? Thank God for Avalon and the new direction! If you don't resonate here please go to Nexus and express low frequency there, not here! .... some people's children ....

Hi Mr DeDukshyn,

I have posted to date over fifty times at Nexus, have you by chance read any of them?


Confucius say:

better to keep quiet and let people think you're a wanker! than to open you're mouth and let people know you're a wanker!

[Isostool]

<snip>. Personal attacks, they come in various forms, and "innocent" people can be used to carry them out.

<snip>. It is called "covert hostility", which is when someone pretends to be nice while stabbing someone with innuendos and veiled accusations. I don't do that, I call a spade a spade.

There really is no secret about where the ultimate source puppets are who are stirring all the mud at Bill, nor the puppeteers. My message to "them" is that you will not succeed. Bill and Avalon are standing strong. If I feel a threat to this place or Bill, even if simply implied, I will step in. No question.

In the reading of that thread, it is actually clear that you do, Inelia, accuse people in a veiled way - suggestions which are sufficiently vague - things like: "very telling" you know like: look what this suggests about these people who are something I will allude to but not say out loud. How is that telling? Why is that telling? What is that telling of? It is not spoken of in such a way as that people can defend themselves.

If you are calling a spade a spade, then would that not entail an accusation to someone in such a way so that they can directly address you about it, and to what you refer, and defend themselves without you then having the loop hole to be able to then say 'oh look aren't you now being all hostile, for no reason at all, other than your obvious agenda to pollute Avalon'? High and low vibration is relative. And sometimes clearing up inaccuracy is a sufficient motivation. And so it should be.



Answer to your question: very telling in how the person/s who have been working very hard to pollute/destroy Avalon can take a thread about a very high vibrational level topic and corrupt it onto low level drama.


Unfortunately, I find this way of thinking about it slightly paranoid. And I will tell you why. The people who have been writing on the Integrity thread, or this thread or any related thread or perhaps even any thread on Avalon (or even Nexus) have no intent to destroy or pollute Avalon. To suggest that anyone has the intent of polluting or destroying Avalon is ... unless they are paid to be here to do just that, for eg., is really just seeing an agenda at play that is relative to your specific understanding of how the realms of existence work.

Although I am sure that you and I, Inelia, have some similar understandings of how theses realms work, we do have differences of opinion. One thing I would say we have differing observationsand/or opinions on, is that I say people have more of a sovereign understanding and hold of what is 'the hand that moves through their hand' than you are giving them credit for. People are having debates about these subjects from their own sovereign understanding of self (or they are directly engaged in the process of recovery) - they genuinely have concerns. They are not "innocently" being USED.

The people here do NOT have the agenda to pollute or destroy Avalon. We enjoy it here. Nor do people innocently support the agenda of such either - and if that is what you think is going on, how can accusing them on thread - saying "you are all trying to pollute this place and destroy it" if indeed they are innocent, be helping them to gather the self love to regain their own soveregnity? By abusing them? If they are innocent, then they are innocent, and do not deserve your accusing them of being polluters. If you intend that call to be aimed at the 'orchestrators multidimensional' then address it to them, not the innocent people you see as their tools.

I work from the depth of my self knowledge when I approach concerns. These dynamics we are seeing are a painting of the multivaried expression of alternative people. We are not all similar in how we express ourselves - I myself am a nocturnal dweller - I like the night time. Other people prefer the day. It is natural variation. It just depends on what kind of 'medicine' you practice. But it's still medicine. And it is better to have the warring spirit held here in people who are conscious of it and are not either puppets or employed by the frikkin' CIA (or whatever) and who practice it in consciousness, than to just eliminate all of it in an immune reaction. Consciousness - self awareness - self knowledge - is the light. Suppression is not.

I get the distinct impression that this is an effort to cleanse this forum of the energies that Atticus brought in (and with him), and the people he attracted. That is my honest impression of what the management of Avalon is attempting to do, at present. In my personal opinion, Atticus' energy is solidly of the life giving trunk of existence and highly joyous, as are those he works for. The motion to cleanse this forum is itself causing the thing that it is attempting to eradicate - i.e. it is an immune system attacking itself - a mirror attacking the phantom of itself.

We have the sovereignty to be in command of our own motivations and actions, and to know this. We are either practicing it, as individuals in this group or are actively attempting to master it. There IS no subversive 'situation'. Chill OUT. K? Have a [whatever it is that you indulge in to relax].

[Chicodoodoo]

Why did the "Integrity" thread get shut down? What violation caused it to get locked?

I wrote a long reply to Sierra there, clicked on submit, and promptly received a "thread closed" message. Everything I wrote was lost. :doh:

[Isostool]

Why did the "Integrity" thread get shut down? What violation caused it to get locked?

I wrote a long reply to Sierra there, clicked on submit, and promptly received a "thread closed" message. Everything I wrote was lost. :doh:

Damn it. I have learned that if I am writing a long reply, compose it in word first then cut and paste it. And save it regularly!!! You could have posted it in here.

[Ross]

Why did the "Integrity" thread get shut down? What violation caused it to get locked?

I wrote a long reply to Sierra there, clicked on submit, and promptly received a "thread closed" message. Everything I wrote was lost. :doh:

Damn it. I have learned that if I am writing a long reply, compose it in word first then cut and paste it. And save it regularly!!! You could have posted it in here.

Yup...I do the same..word doc. Also allows you to have back up if it is important and worthy of keeping.

Ross

[DevilPigeon]

Why did the "Integrity" thread get shut down? What violation caused it to get locked?

I wrote a long reply to Sierra there, clicked on submit, and promptly received a "thread closed" message. Everything I wrote was lost. :doh:

Inelia suggested it be closed.

[sandy]

I don't know how to start what I want to say without doing more harm to Avalon, but unless I get some other points of view on what I am feeling and seeing, I may have to also leave. I don't like what my intuition is telling me and the resulting feelings of being deceived and led down the garden path by one individual in this community.

i will not name, names,(rules) however I believe there is an individual here who's special powers or abilities are not of a wholesome nature and there is a very underhanded game of manipulation going on.

People come together for different reasons, but mostly because each has something to give to the other which can be stated as, resonate with each other or what ever expression works for you. As an example>>>Some may be unknowingly or knowingly looking for the next Messiah and that New Messiah may be needing more visibility to spread their doctrine and special powers.

I believe we are on a slippery slope right now with what is happening in the Integrity Thread (now closed) and the outcome of which will not be one of Integrity to say the least. I will not follow blindly much longer. I might be a little ole lady physically but underneath that I'm a pretty smart old Broad who has been around the block more times than I want to admit.

Please share you insight into what I'm gingerly trying to reveal without getting myself banned for calling a spade a spade as I have heard as of late in the Integrity Thread.

[DevilPigeon]

-----

I think it's nuts that we're in a situation where everyone's pretty much treading on eggshells. One false word and it's "bang! game over"

[Isostool]

I don't know how to start what I want to say without doing more harm to Avalon, but unless I get some other points of view on what I am feeling and seeing, I may have to also leave. I don't like what my intuition is telling me and the resulting feelings of being deceived and led down the garden path by one individual in this community.

i will not name, names,(rules) however I believe there is an individual here who's special powers or abilities are not of a wholesome nature and there is a very underhanded game of manipulation going on.

People come together for different reasons, but mostly because each has something to give to the other which can be stated as, resonate with each other or what ever expression works for you. As an example>>>Some may be unknowingly or knowingly looking for the next Messiah and that New Messiah may be needing more visibility to spread their doctrine and special powers.

I believe we are on a slippery slope right now with what is happening in the Integrity Thread (now closed) and the outcome of which will not be one of Integrity to say the least. I will not follow blindly much longer. I might be a little ole lady physically but underneath that I'm a pretty smart old Broad who has been around the block more times than I want to admit.

Please share you insight into what I'm gingerly trying to reveal without getting myself banned for calling a spade a spade as I have heard as of late in the Integrity Thread.

OK. Look. I'll say something. To my best guess you are worried about either Inelia or Atticus? Because you have referenced the Integrity thread I am leaning towards that you are suggesting Inelia? I don't think that Inelia is being deceptive. She works in realms in such a way, (as far as I understand it, and yes my observations in specific relation to Inelia are limited and so are my descriptions and conclusions of it here), so that there are many boundaries which get blurred inner - about ones identity and understanding of self identity.

It is hard work. Staying strong in self and motion. Staying strong in mission. Defeating the enemy whatever that enemy is to you. Be it ignorance or a target or self ignorance or what EVER, be it by offence, defence or just being still/neither. Boundaries have a tendency to get blurred because the energies are big and the dimensions are many.

Tensions can run high, especially when people come into the play in the physical world in your face . But also - identities are not always so SIMPLE to tag. Not simple at all.

I would be [I]very surprised if Inelia were intentionally being deceptive or using her skills for bad purpose.

I do not claim to know in wholeness, these are my thoughts about it.

And as for Atticus, I have no concern about him whatsoever. I like him and his inner silence.

[loveandgratitude]

It is time for everyone to go and have a deep breathe, a long relaxing bath, a walk on the beach/forest. Anything that can take this focus off pain and suffering. Everyone is fragile and feeling a little bruised. What is the point of poking at this bruise. It will not help you feel better. Everyone need to take some time out and start to feel good about themselves, the world, people. This proding, stirring, shaking, rattling has gone one for too long now and is really getting beyond ridiculous. Take some time out, get a clearer perspective, a more positive outlook. We are here to discuss things of a higher nature in life, to learn about interesting things, to enjoy company of like minded people. Time to hang up the towel. Think wonderful thoughts and feel good about yourself and others.

TIME TO BE A PEACEFUL WARRIOR


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj5sHnvluGk

[Isostool]

It is time for everyone to go and have a deep breathe, a long relaxing bath, a walk on the beach/forest. Anything that can take this focus off pain and suffering. Everyone is fragile and feeling a little bruised. What is the point of poking at this bruise. It will not help you feel better. Everyone need to take some time out and start to feel good about themselves, the world, people. This proding, stirring, shaking, rattling has gone one for too long now and is really getting beyond ridiculous. Take some time out, get a clearer perspective, a more positive outlook. We are here to discuss things of a higher nature in life, to learn about interesting things, to enjoy company of like minded people. Time to hang up the towel. Think wonderful thoughts and feel good about yourself and others.

Not necessarily is everyone feeling fragile and a little bruised. Not everyone feels like going for a walk or whatever. Some people wish to talk about things. About what is going on here. Some people find it interesting.

If you do not wish to become engaged in this particular conversation, then don't. Don't open the thread. Go for a walk. Do something else.

But if we wish to talk about it, then why should we not? People have different ways of gaining understandings of themselves and others. Your walk in the forest is another man's thread.

My towel stays where it is, thanks.

[loveandgratitude]

Even prize fighters take time out between bouts. To regain energy, to get a fresher perspective before heading back into the fight.

[ThePythonicCow]

I wrote a long reply to Sierra there, clicked on submit, and promptly received a "thread closed" message. Everything I wrote was lost. :doh:I recommend using Firefox, with the Lazarus Add-On (https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/lazarus-form-recovery/). One can easily recover any text entered into a web form.

[thunder24]

Noxon,
Public forums are not private. I don't really understand how you could think they were. I will remove the post. I will extend you the courtesy you want. however, I have no problem with what I said and only do it to keep that peace. But peacemakers do not just keep their mouths closed, fingers at rest when they see something that needs to be pointed out.
Oh isnt' the English language a tricky thing, multiple meanings for multiple words.
peace
"enter"


thanks for the picture and jesture Noxon. I will def put that in the pipe!

[andywight]

Just in case anyone here isn't sure about what a Troll looks like, this is the male representation of course I'm sure you're all well aware there are also female Trolls.

7084

[9eagle9]

Basically what you said, Sandy its not one individual though. I'm glad you said it.

Avalon has probably been a revolving door for things of that nature for some time. One shows up, does their deed and leaves again. They depend on people's lack of knowledge about such things. And their uncertainty.

And they depend on a certain need in others to sweep them up in the game. So pretty soon a lot of people come under the influence--all of them end being victimized for it though. Which is why I call it a collective hive mind. They always do the same thing, you can set your watch by it. I observe it repeatedly and with some amusement out here in the physical world.

But because they always do the same thing, you can easily spot them. And you can predict what will happen next. Easily.

There is a never changing criteria they operate under. Not now. Not in a thousand years.

And how does one deal with something lurking beneath the surface. When it comes up for air let it know that you know its in the pool. Then dive 'beneath' the surface after it.

There's been certain amount of housekeeping performed on Avlaon without stirring the board because this goes much deeper and beyond an internet forum. Ride the backtrail of some of this stuff and you will find an entire community busily influencing certain other people. A term called cording in.

But they are replicants they pop up and start it all over again. So the actual mechanism that prevents entry in the first place lies in the membership. The highest means of protection and defense against that sort of influence is within us. Th mechanism that allows them to cord in in the first place. But once you learn it and you start to flex it, you won't be bothered by anything ever again.

[9eagle9]

I might be a little ole lady physically but underneath that I'm a pretty smart old Broad who has been around the block more times than I want to admit.

That you are!

[DeDukshyn]

Wow, a bit off topic I suppose but it's hard to find a post on Nexus that isn't just rubbish gossip. seriously! WTF!?? What is that site supposed to be anyway? I can't figure it out with all the name calling, people bashing, **** hurling, Wah-Wha!, Me too!, happening there.. LOL seriously folks ... WTF? is there nothing better to do than judge and criticize others with a plank in your eye? Thank God for Avalon and the new direction! If you don't resonate here please go to Nexus and express low frequency there, not here! .... some people's children ....

Hi Mr DeDukshyn,

I have posted to date over fifty times at Nexus, have you by chance read any of them?



I sure hope not, unless you are trying to implicate yourself? :P

You must have skipped over this post of mine: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?18970-Magna-Cartas-and-stuff&p=204744&viewfull=1#post204744

[Calz]

I have taken a couple days to get over the "shock" and acclimate to what has just happened. The recent bannings of longstanding members who have contributed so very much really is concerning ... and yet there are two sides. I would add kudos to many who have made tremendous contributions in several threads but I want to move this beyond individual members.

In all honesty I resonate highly with "both sides of the fence". Not a cop out ... just being honest. (to the few beyond Carmody who understand astrology I have 5 natal planets in Libra and can easily carry on a argument with myself :)

I look at avalon and then I look at nexus (as a guest) and I see the same camelot family.

I see the same hopes and dreams.

I see the same awareness to see through the fog.

I see (and feel) the pain that personal attacks of all sorts from any direction can inflict. I have not been a "member" as long as many but have been looking in from the outside for quite some time.

Yes I understand a few are here (and there) to disrupt and divide. Those should not be a concern to "those of Camelot" as the true colors come out quickly enough.

Are we not able to see through that and raise above it together??? Even some of the "peacemakers" are surrendering. Why is this happening to us???

I feel such sadness ... the same sadness I felt when Camelot split into halves.

Could it not be enhanced by the AI, elite toys or mood altering technology???

Seriously ... consider it.

Look at the mideast (yes pushed by the cia etc but yet ...)

On a personal level there is a higher level of tension within my own family as well as my workplace.

I add that only because we ... AS CAMELOT MEMBERS should be able to recognize what is happening. If we cannot then who??? How can we inspire others within our own personal sphere if we as a (now divided) forum succumb to the same vibrations?

IMHO we need to revitalize the peacemakers here. You know who you are. We really need to bridge this gap before it broadens beyond repair. I am not a member of nexus so I hope, in the name of peace, someone can convey this message there.

If we as the original Camelot community cannot function together without succumbing to the same divide and conquer crap that has driven our reality for how many millenium ... then what hope can we offer to the "masses" who really really need our help???

[greybeard]

Hi Calz I agree with you.
I too can see both sides.

Yet people expect you to take sides or worse think you have.
I have compassion for those no longer here

I like things to be fair also

Some overstepped the mark, some I dont think so -- thats my feeling -- yet not a judgment.

As far as a universal thing
You only have to look at the news --- suicide, mothers killing their children-- 12 year old boy rapes 12 year old girl. young man shoots his girl friend while cleaning a shot gun then turns it on himself, in front of friends it all happened, both dead. Thats Scottish news this week.

Eckhart Toll in the book The Power of Now stated that we are in for massive change -- people will be driven to madness etc the good thin beeing that while the violene rises the good, the compassion, is rising faster that the other.

All that is negative in us individually is coming up to be released -- it how we deal wit itthats important -- we can lash out at others or release it to higher power.

The Course in Miracles states " You are never angry for the reason you think you are" Some perso may provide the trigger be the last straw but if you really look deeply you will see there was anger long before the out burst.
Much wisdom in what you said Calz
Regards Chris

[Franny]

All that is negative in us individually is coming up to be released -- it how we deal wit itthats important -- we can lash out at others or release it to higher power.

The Course in Miracles states " You are never angry for the reason you think you are" Some perso may provide the trigger be the last straw but if you really look deeply you will see there was anger long before the out burst.
Much wisdom in what you said Calz
Regards Chris

Well spoken both of you, thank you.

I too am seeing this all around me and have to keep letting it go as well. Not many yet have developed the discernment or tools to deal with these issues.

Remembering to stay centered and knowing that things are not always as we first perceive them to be can be a challenge worth meeting.

All the best everyone...

[9eagle9]

Its educating people as to what the actual problem is and its not people per say. It's not US or Them. That's a very surface thing. It goes much deeper than that, its our own woundedness. Its very much an internal mechanism but since we bounce off, trigger to react, and bond with people with the same issues it causes division. Some people rush off to unite with others of the same state of woundeness or we rush in to take arms against our own reflections (each other). Everyone is right ....and everyone is wrong. That's what creates this fence sitting paradigm.

The people I've had the most conflict with in this world were people who people who came from the same place as I. Conversely the people I have bonded with the most have come from the same place as I. This will occur naturally.

But....You get an external influence savvy to how wounded we are and what strings to pull and buttons to push and ...viola. The playground for manipulation is open for business.

When we begin learning what our own internal mechanisms are that allow this, and how to abate them then we will begin to have that change within that is reflected externally. Everything inside of us is projected externally. But we have to get some of these blinders off of us these false schisms that distract us from the issue.

If one ever observes a psychic attack one notices right away that the one attacked is unconsciously opening the door to it. I don't care how big or small it is, on planet, off planet or 4th dimensional. This is not a reality for me NOW but at one time it is, and i'm sure there's plenty of people who are still stumbling about in this reality. And the reality is inside of us. You can't imagine when you open up someone's head how many 'role's are being played out there. Most of them opposing each other.

The ego is constantly looking for a conflict so when one comes knocking it opens the door to the wound room, where the roles are stored, that arsenal the ego employees against us and invites any old thing in even if its not directed at us. If you aren't beating yourself up enough it WILL invite in something that can do a better job. We may be caught in random cross fire.

If there was a species that came in and altered us in some fashion to control us , I bet you the tether they instilled in us was ego.

So while a medicine person may dance away and scare off a 'demon' another person is going to look inside and say there is the wound the external influence is attaching to. Heal that and it won't have a leg to stand on. It's like Velcro. It needs something to attach to. Don't give it anything to attach to and...well there you are.

Button pushing of others demonstrates this. If I singled out Cal and hurled all sorts of abuse by honing in on a particular fear which has been revealed wittingly or unwittingly. He's going to react. Cal your dumb, weak, fearful stupid. Yeah I'm going to get a reaction either lash back or perhaps someone slinks off to nurse their wounds in silence. I've further entrenched the wounding. These are wounds instilled in us all on some level in different ways. If I screamed at Cal that he was a flipping paper weight what sort of response am I going to get? None. I can't get in there and start pouring salt on the wound because Cal probably has no issues concernign being a paperweight. Its meaningnless. The most response would get is....Ooooooookay, crazy lady.

Or conversely I could stroke Cal up and really insinuate msyelf in there by bolstering up a need or desire. It's the same thing. It's manipulation. Then someone in their woundedness would leap on that flattery, those impassioned enticements, and off we go me leading thme by the nose. Or they could raise a brow and think "She's manipulating me."

I would be one way or the other. I'm a master of manipulating people. And I let them know that. But it also allows me to see how manipulation works and its always tracked back to the same source.

We are navigated by a crazy chaos making mechanism. Break that tether and nothing can leash you again.


Learning how to keep that door shut, and sitting on the ego so its not inviting in unwanted guests is a means to where if you achieve you don't have to do anything else.

The very basic premise of negative energy extraction is finding out what the intrusion is attaching to. US. That's where the real power lies at. Not in the ability to get rid of what is ailing us, but becoming inviolate against it. And that which is violating is ultimately inside of us.

[Calz]

Its educating people as to what the actual problem is and its not people per say. It's not US or Them. That's a very surface thing. It goes much deeper than that, its our own woundedness. Its very much an internal mechanism but since we bounce off, trigger to react, and bond with people with the same issues it causes division. Some people rush off to unite with others of the same state of woundeness or we rush in to take arms against our own reflections (each other). Everyone is right ....and everyone is wrong. That's what creates this fence sitting paradigm.

The people I've had the most conflict with in this world were people who people who came from the same place as I. Conversely the people I have bonded with the most have come from the same place as I. This will occur naturally.

But....You get an external influence savvy to how wounded we are and what strings to pull and buttons to push and ...viola. The playground for manipulation is open for business.

When we begin learning what our own internal mechanisms are that allow this, and how to abate them then we will begin to have that change within that is reflected externally. Everything inside of us is projected externally. But we have to get some of these blinders off of us these false schisms that distract us from the issue.

If one ever observes a psychic attack one notices right away that the one attacked is unconsciously opening the door to it. I don't care how big or small it is, on planet, off planet or 4th dimensional. This is not a reality for me NOW but at one time it is, and i'm sure there's plenty of people who are still stumbling about in this reality. And the reality is inside of us. You can't imagine when you open up someone's head how many 'role's are being played out there. Most of them opposing each other.

The ego is constantly looking for a conflict so when one comes knocking it opens the door to the wound room, where the roles are stored, that arsenal the ego employees against us and invites any old thing in even if its not directed at us. If you aren't beating yourself up enough it WILL invite in something that can do a better job. We may be caught in random cross fire.

If there was a species that came in and altered us in some fashion to control us , I bet you the tether they instilled in us was ego.

So while a medicine person may dance away and scare off a 'demon' another person is going to look inside and say there is the wound the external influence is attaching to. Heal that and it won't have a leg to stand on. It's like Velcro. It needs something to attach to. Don't give it anything to attach to and...well there you are.

Button pushing of others demonstrates this. If I singled out Cal and hurled all sorts of abuse by honing in on a particular fear which has been revealed wittingly or unwittingly. He's going to react. Cal your dumb, weak, fearful stupid. Yeah I'm going to get a reaction either lash back or perhaps someone slinks off to nurse their wounds in silence. I've further entrenched the wounding. These are wounds instilled in us all on some level in different ways. If I screamed at Cal that he was a flipping paper weight what sort of response am I going to get? None. I can't get in there and start pouring salt on the wound because Cal probably has no issues concernign being a paperweight. Its meaningnless. The most response would get is....Ooooooookay, crazy lady.

Or conversely I could stroke Cal up and really insinuate msyelf in there by bolstering up a need or desire. It's the same thing. It's manipulation. Then someone in their woundedness would leap on that flattery, those impassioned enticements, and off we go me leading thme by the nose. Or they could raise a brow and think "She's manipulating me."

I would be one way or the other. I'm a master of manipulating people. And I let them know that. But it also allows me to see how manipulation works and its always tracked back to the same source.

We are navigated by a crazy chaos making mechanism. Break that tether and nothing can leash you again.


Learning how to keep that door shut, and sitting on the ego so its not inviting in unwanted guests is a means to where if you achieve you don't have to do anything else.

The very basic premise of negative energy extraction is finding out what the intrusion is attaching to. US. That's where the real power lies at. Not in the ability to get rid of what is ailing us, but becoming inviolate against it. And that which is violating is ultimately inside of us.

9eagle9 ... you have ... and have always had my deepest respect.

Perhaps I would be better able to portray that if I wasn't so often on the the floor recovering from hangovers in your margarita bar :)

You are the best :)

[greybeard]

I think we have to have our own personal Magna Carta.
Mine is on my signature.
When I fall short of the mark I resolve to do better.

What is important is pattern recognition.

A story
John is up in front of the judge yet again for flashing at women
Judge says "I will have to jail you again John, why do you keep doing this.
John replies "Well it works once in a hundred"

Problem is John has only one way of getting what he wants.
Most people actually dont have skill with themselves far less other people because they dont recognize patterns in their behavior which dont get them what they want--or very rarely
Definition of madness Doing the same thing and expecting different results.

The ego says -- "My way or no way" No bending no room for negotiating.
Typical unconscious thoughts are "Im right-- therefore an other point of view must be wrong"
"They dont get it they dont see it my way"

9eagles9 is right though its not an easy task.

Regards Chris

[andywight]

Wow, a bit off topic I suppose but it's hard to find a post on Nexus that isn't just rubbish gossip. seriously! WTF!?? What is that site supposed to be anyway? I can't figure it out with all the name calling, people bashing, **** hurling, Wah-Wha!, Me too!, happening there.. LOL seriously folks ... WTF? is there nothing better to do than judge and criticize others with a plank in your eye? Thank God for Avalon and the new direction! If you don't resonate here please go to Nexus and express low frequency there, not here! .... some people's children ....

Hi Mr DeDukshyn,

I have posted to date over fifty times at Nexus, have you by chance read any of them?


Confucius say:

better to keep quiet and let people think you're a wanker! than to open you're mouth and let people know you're a wanker!



I sure hope not, unless you are trying to implicate yourself? :P

You must have skipped over this post of mine: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?18970-Magna-Cartas-and-stuff&p=204744&viewfull=1#post204744

DeDukshyn, your a funny guy. :mullet:

I hope that you or anyone else out there in cyber-land who shares your opinion about 2012 Nexus can read this post by Ross http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?18505-Question-for-Those-in-The-Know&p=201599&viewfull=1#post201599 unless of course you think Ross also expresses low frequency rubbish gossip.

[ThePythonicCow]

Its educating people as to what the actual problem is and its not people per say. It's not US or Them. That's a very surface thing. It goes much deeper than that, its our own woundedness. Its very much an internal mechanism but since we bounce off, trigger to react, and bond with people with the same issues it causes division. Some people rush off to unite with others of the same state of woundeness or we rush in to take arms against our own reflections (each other). Everyone is right ....and everyone is wrong. That's what creates this fence sitting paradigm.
I was tempted, a half day ago, to close this thread. It had some posts that left me shaking my head in dismay.

I'm glad I posted a trivial little post about Firefox Lazarus Add-on instead. Some good stuff showed up.

[K626]

Its educating people as to what the actual problem is and its not people per say. It's not US or Them. That's a very surface thing. It goes much deeper than that, its our own woundedness. Its very much an internal mechanism but since we bounce off, trigger to react, and bond with people with the same issues it causes division. Some people rush off to unite with others of the same state of woundeness or we rush in to take arms against our own reflections (each other). Everyone is right ....and everyone is wrong. That's what creates this fence sitting paradigm.
I was tempted, a half day ago, to close this thread. It had some posts that left me shaking my head in dismay.

I'm glad I posted a trivial little post about Firefox Lazarus Add-on instead. Some good stuff showed up.

Good of you to admit that Paul.

You know we're not idiots on here and have a way of correcting stuff as we go. :p

Peace

K

[sandy]

Thank you for your words of wisdom and deep insight: Isostool,9eagle9, Chris, oh heck everyone here:)

I have had a good nights sleep, and break, thus more balanced again and your words just added to my inner balance. I do have to say that sweet humanness is such a great teacher. I do agree that unless one is willing to not only look within, but deep within at our humanness including the good, the bad and the downright" UGLY "manipulation continues to be a big part of the game in meeting our ego needs and oh yes it does go to and fro between people.

Thanks one and all, I think your great because I resonate with you:):)

[Chicodoodoo]

This division we are facing, this straying of integrity, this flexing of hierarchical muscle that is hurting us all has been weighing on my mind. This is not the change I want to see in the world, but this is exactly the change I have seen in the world my entire life. And always, there is that haunting question in my head, "What can we do?"

In the shower this morning, an epiphany hit me (I love it when that happens). "Ask them. Ask for help. Ask them to help themselves."

So, who am I to argue? OK, maybe I can spin a good argument, but I know better than to argue with the voice of reason. I started a new thread called "A United Website (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?19231-A-United-Website)". Check it out, and tell us all what you think.

[DeDukshyn]

Wow, a bit off topic I suppose but it's hard to find a post on Nexus that isn't just rubbish gossip. seriously! WTF!?? What is that site supposed to be anyway? I can't figure it out with all the name calling, people bashing, **** hurling, Wah-Wha!, Me too!, happening there.. LOL seriously folks ... WTF? is there nothing better to do than judge and criticize others with a plank in your eye? Thank God for Avalon and the new direction! If you don't resonate here please go to Nexus and express low frequency there, not here! .... some people's children ....

Hi Mr DeDukshyn,

I have posted to date over fifty times at Nexus, have you by chance read any of them? DeDukshyn


Confucius say:

better to keep quiet and let people think you're a wanker! than to open you're mouth and let people know you're a wanker!



I sure hope not, unless you are trying to implicate yourself? :P

You must have skipped over this post of mine: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?18970-Magna-Cartas-and-stuff&p=204744&viewfull=1#post204744

DeDukshyn, your a funny guy. :mullet:

I hope that you or anyone else out there in cyber-land who shares your opinion about 2012 Nexus can read this post by Ross http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?18505-Question-for-Those-in-The-Know&p=201599&viewfull=1#post201599 unless of course you think Ross also expresses low frequency rubbish gossip.

Like I indicated in the thread I linked in my post above, Noxon has already managed to convince me to not write it off just yet ... Did you read my post I linked? Are you reading these posts in order? :p

In the spirit of "licking wounds" as you suggest, I suppose I will tolerate some negative behaviour at Nexus toward individuals here, (but understand I don't "do" those things as there is no gain); you obviously hold it in some regard, thus, I will not write it off completely until I have had a better chance to explore further content there. -DeDukshyn

[andywight]

Like I indicated in the thread I linked in my post above, Noxon has already managed to convince me to not write it off just yet ... Did you read my post I linked? Are you reading these posts in order? :p

Yes DeDukshyn I read all your posts in order! Did you read mine, if so are you still of the same opinion?

To no one in particular... I wish more people here would pay better attention to Confucius.

[Mike]

hi Chico,

thanks for the response.

the suggestion to back up the hoaxer accusations was more directed at those that were perpetuating it on other forums. ditto the Inelia stuff. the reason i responded to you specifically and those that support your initial post is because you/they seem to be endorsing it with your (imho) very thinly veiled reference to Bill in your 'emperor has no clothes' analogy. but if you say you weren't making a direct reference to Bill then i'll have to take your word on that.

btw i am not an across the board apologist for anyone-Bill included-but the reason i react to posts like this is simply because i'm tired of baseless accusations being bandied about without any follow-thru. without any proof, or backbone. some are deliberately camouflaged or vague, so said poster can be alternately rebellious or agreeable, depending on the momentum of the forum. when reproached with a ban or "vacation" they can throw their hands up in phony indignation and victimhood and wallow in this sort of self perpetuated martyrdom. they'll invoke terms like "witchhunt" and "fascism". if there is no reproach/growing support for their comments they'll own them and take credit for the spirit in which they were originally intended. it's getting annoying.

concise communication is key. Chico, perhaps i misinterpreted you, but i think you can see how easily one could do that, given the wording of your post.

[DeDukshyn]

Like I indicated in the thread I linked in my post above, Noxon has already managed to convince me to not write it off just yet ... Did you read my post I linked? Are you reading these posts in order? :p

Yes DeDukshyn I read all your posts in order! Did you read mine, if so are you still of the same opinion?

To no one in particular... I wish more people here would pay better attention to Confucius.

Since you changed your post into a proper question ...

My opinion is exactly the same as what I responded in Noxon's post -- I will not judge Nexus on the 2 or 3 threads I saw and was "thoroughly" disgusted by (As displayed in my one slightly dramatic post on the topic). I am still thoroughly disgusted with what I saw - that won't change and you won't get any apologies from me on that; But I will reserve judgement on Nexus as a whole until I have a chance to check it further - exactly as I stated in my response to Noxom. Can we drop this now? How about I send you a PM when I stomach up enough guts to go back, and I will let you know what I think. :biggrin1:

[andywight]

My opinion is exactly the same as what I responded in Noxon's post -- I will not judge Nexus on the 2 or 3 threads I saw and was "thoroughly" disgusted by (As displayed in my one slightly dramatic post on the topic). I am still thoroughly disgusted with what I saw - that won't change and you won't get any apologies from me on that; But I will reserve judgement on Nexus as a whole until I have a chance to check it further - exactly as I stated in my response to Noxom. Can we drop this now? How about I send you a PM when I stomach up enough guts to go back, and I will let you know what I think. :biggrin1:


Sounds like a "cop out" to me.

You posted your original statement for everyone to read so when you "stomach up enough guts to go back" why not share your thoughts about it with everyone here also.

[DeDukshyn]

My opinion is exactly the same as what I responded in Noxon's post -- I will not judge Nexus on the 2 or 3 threads I saw and was "thoroughly" disgusted by (As displayed in my one slightly dramatic post on the topic). I am still thoroughly disgusted with what I saw - that won't change and you won't get any apologies from me on that; But I will reserve judgement on Nexus as a whole until I have a chance to check it further - exactly as I stated in my response to Noxom. Can we drop this now? How about I send you a PM when I stomach up enough guts to go back, and I will let you know what I think. :biggrin1:


Sounds like a "cop out" to me.

You posted your original statement for everyone to read so when you "stomach up enough guts to go back" why not share your thoughts about it with everyone here also.

I'm sorry, what is it you are trying to do here...????? Seriously.

[Ross]

I am still thoroughly disgusted with what I saw


Can we drop this now? How about I send you a PM when I stomach up enough guts to go back, and I will let you know what I think.


Hello DeDukshyn,

Your deduction of Nexus, based on a few threads, from very upset folk, does require further deducing, to see that Nexus is a community, just as here, trying to move on from the last few weeks and current week of bans.

Folk (a few) just as you do, feel the need to have rant, a blow out, for some it helps, already I am witnessing some starting to "move on". For me personally, I just hope all will move forwards and find the better parts of themselves, and contribute with a healthy energy. I am certainly trying to facillitate that both here and there.

Regards

Ross

[DeDukshyn]

I am still thoroughly disgusted with what I saw


Can we drop this now? How about I send you a PM when I stomach up enough guts to go back, and I will let you know what I think.


Hello DeDukshyn,

Your deduction of Nexus, based on a few threads, from very upset folk, does require further deducing, to see that Nexus is a community, just as here, trying to move on from the last few weeks and current week of bans.

Folk (a few) just as you do, feel the need to have rant, a blow out, for some it helps, already I am witnessing some starting to "move on". For me personally, I just hope all will move forwards and find the better parts of themselves, and contribute with a healthy energy. I am certainly trying to facillitate that both here and there.

Regards

Ross

I explained myself well enough. time for you and Andy to "Move on" Thanks.

Edit: I made this post about 10 posts ago then linked again in posts two or three times. This is my stance. End of story. Accept it and move on.

In the spirit of "licking wounds" as you suggest, I suppose I will tolerate some negative behaviour at Nexus toward individuals here, (but understand I don't "do" those things as there is no gain); you obviously hold it in some regard, thus, I will not write it off completely until I have had a better chance to explore further content there. -DeDukshyn

[Ross]

Thank you, D,

I was in agreement with you, that further exploration will help you to see a bigger picture. Hopefully both communities can exist without further damage and negativity, that is my wish, and to help anyway I can to acheive this.

Regards

Ross

[DeDukshyn]

Thank you, D,

I was in agreement with you, that further exploration will help you to see a bigger picture. Hopefully both communities can exist without further damage and negativity, that is my wish, and to help anyway I can to acheive this.

Regards

Ross

Fair enough. I'm just getting annoyed with this thread in general, it's late. I should never have been so dramatic in my negative post towards Nexus, but I was just a bit shocked by what I saw and reported what I felt. I didn't think I'd have to defend my own personal opinion so much. I guess my opinion is taken in higher regard than I thought.

[Calz]

Hopefully both communities can exist without further damage and negativity, that is my wish, and to help anyway I can to acheive this.


Thank you Ross

I expect most all of the extended Camelot family would agree regardless of where they have chosen to hang their hat :)

Cal

[Isostool]

People who have unsubscribed/been unsubscribed over the last week or so:

Jorr has unsubscribed:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?19180-My-moment-on-earth&p=204496&viewfull=1#post204496

FearNot has unsubscribed:

http://nexus.2012info.ca/forum/showthread.php?1671-They-canceled-my-membership&p=12761&viewfull=1#post12761

Tuza, by the looks, planned on leaving and then made a post which got her banned anyway:

http://nexus.2012info.ca/forum/showthread.php?1671-They-canceled-my-membership&p=12740&viewfull=1#post12740

And also sjkted:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?18505-Question-for-Those-in-The-Know&p=201691&viewfull=1#post201691

[DoubleHelix]

People who have unsubscribed/been unsubscribed over the last week or so:


And in some fashion.

[TigerLilly]

I am new to this fascinating world of forums, I was one of the new crowd that joined in January.
I was amazed, impressed, quite frankly awed by the people and the information I found here. I understood completely why the people controlling this planet would see Project Avalon as a threat.
I have not been a great poster, I prefer to listen and learn, occasionally support those I agreed with.

When the forum split I chose not to take sides as I liked and respected both groups, and so I joined Nexus.
Recently I have felt as though I am in the middle of a battle zone, it reminds me of the gang fights in a play ground. It’s human nature to pick sides, get over excited and join in. We are all human and we all make mistakes and say things we regret. We all have egos which we struggle to control.

Too many good people are getting hurt and leaving, remember together we are strong!

Let’s calm down, stop fighting amongst ourselves and remember who our common enemy is!

We should respect and support the other forums. I am very glad Nexus is there so that the wonderful people who have left Avalon still have a voice. There are some brilliant threads on Nexus, I particularly recommend the Japan Nuclear Updates
http://nexus.2012info.ca/forum/showthread.php?1101-Japan-Nuclear-thread-Part-2

We are being distracted by this infighting. What are we missing while we are busy bickering?

We always have hundreds of guest reading the forum and we need to remember why we are here.

Let’s stop wasting our energy and turn our focus back on to exposing the truth.

[Isostool]

People who have unsubscribed/been unsubscribed over the last week or so:


And in some fashion.

Yes. A lot of people aren't happy about stuff. Some people leave quietly, others do not. Some leave wanting to, others not.

People can leave and get unsubscribed and people just wonder where they've gone and why. Sometimes you know what's happened just if you happen to be there at the time with some - I was on thread when whitestar cracked it and got unsubbed. But a member can't keep up with it all - and its news in a way. Impartially, there are facts, whatever you think of them.

I think its interesting why people are choosing to leave. And why they are being asked to leave. If anyone knows of any more, please post here.

[DeDukshyn]

People who have unsubscribed/been unsubscribed over the last week or so:


And in some fashion.

Yes. A lot of people aren't happy about stuff. Some people leave quietly, others do not. Some leave wanting to, others not.

People can leave and get unsubscribed and people just wonder where they've gone and why. Sometimes you know what's happened just if you happen to be there at the time with some - I was on thread when whitestar cracked it and got unsubbed. But a member can't keep up with it all - and its news in a way. Impartially, there are facts, whatever you think of them.

I think its interesting why people are choosing to leave. And why they are being asked to leave. If anyone knows of any more, please post here.

Let me try: As far as I know (but do not know all the details -admittedly) some members broke the guidelines they agreed to when they joined. That has been and always will be grounds for dismissal - just like breaking the rules of the job. That explains the majority of all cases of people are being unsubbed. As for people leaving - they are allowed to. There is no rule that makes them have to stay here, so if the choose to leave, they will. In my opinion trying to dig deeper than this is like witch hunting - but that's just my opinion.

[Isostool]

Let me try: As far as I know (but do not know all the details -admittedly) some members broke the guidelines they agreed to when they joined. That has been and always will be grounds for dismissal - just like breaking the rules of the job. That explains the majority of all cases of people are being unsubbed. As for people leaving - they are allowed to. There is no rule that makes them have to stay here, so if the choose to leave, they will. In my opinion trying to dig deeper than this is like witch hunting - but that's just my opinion.

I was actually referring to if anyone knows of any more people, of any more members who have left/been asked to leave. Not reasons.

But if someone wants to continue looking for reasons, totally fine. That's one of the themes of this thread and is a thing many of us have thought about over the last little while.

And oh yes I'll go get my scales and ducks out in a minute and we can weigh everyone up on the test-for-a-witch equipment.

Looking at the political and social dynamics at play here is important for some people and some are becoming disillusioned at what they think Avalon is either doing or standing for. Digging deeper is just what some people DO.

[greybeard]

Isotool
.[/QUOTE]

I was actually referring to if anyone knows of any more people, of any more members who have left/been asked to leave. Not reasons.[/QUOTE]

Why dont you Pm a mod then you will get an accurate list Isotool

Several of my friends left as they wanted no part of the friction or the Charles event -- that was early on - January.
Some friends also still members but rarely visit.
People come people go -- thats life.

Chris

[andywight]

Why dont you Pm a mod then you will get an accurate list Isotool
Chris

Good suggestion Chis, although the contents of PM's are not supposed to be posted.

Ilie would it be possible for you to post a list of and the reasons that so many have been banned?
Also a list of people that have left voluntarily would be helpful, although the reasons for them leaving would, I guess be private to them unless posted beforehand.

Thanks in Advance

Andy

[Ilie Pandia]

Ilie would it be possible for you to post a list of and the reasons that so many have been banned?
Also a list of people that have left voluntarily would be helpful, although the reasons for them leaving would, I guess be private to them unless posted beforehand.


Hello,

With the right amount of effort it could be possible but I am not going to do that.

If you need to check if a member is still present on the forum then just go here: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/memberlist.php and do a member search. If s/he is no longer on the list the that member is no longer on this forum.

As to the reasons of why members have left the forum or they have been asked to leave that is very simple to answer:

1) Members that have left have their personal reasons, that they have shared with whomever they wanted to. Some of them have posted good bye posts, some have not. That is their business.

2) The members that have been invited to leave have repeatedly breached the guidelines or otherwise no longer support the Project Avalon ideals.

[Chicodoodoo]

In my opinion trying to dig deeper than this is like witch hunting - but that's just my opinion.

Digging deeper is a way to learn more about a serious problem so that you can help correct it before you fall victim to it.

Some people are being forcibly unsubscribed for unjust reasons. Many others are leaving voluntarily because they do not appreciate injustice. A few brave ones care enough to stay on to fight that injustice and help correct the problem. The vast majority just observe and fall in line, content in the knowledge that they themselves have not been affected.

This is very much a microcosm for the problems we are all facing in the larger world.

I just heard from Skippy, who has left the premises. He did not say why he left, but he did thank me "for defending true human values." That suggests to me that he is also seeing some problems here at Avalon, enough to cause him to leave. Valuable members are jumping ship in disturbing numbers. This is not the change I want to see in the world of Avalon.

"Houston, we have a problem."

[9eagle9]

Then let's post up the guidelines to see if there is something in the language, beleif or content that is either inadvertently misleading or people may be misunderstanding. Not to work over or alter but just take a long hard look and see if there's something in there that has opposing values to it that may be inadvertently leading people astray. Remember, what we read and absorb may be a different message than what the actual content states.

To reiterate. We are always examining content concerning the PTB. Videos and media that highlight sociopathic attitudes. Or at least undesireable attitudes. And we agree the will not be tolerated. So when an attitude of that nature pops up and a member addresses it, that member may be perceived as against the FORUM guidelines, but not the actual tacit essence of the forum.

Know what I meanz, jellie beanz?

[Jake]

In my opinion trying to dig deeper than this is like witch hunting - but that's just my opinion.

Digging deeper is a way to learn more about a serious problem so that you can help correct it before you fall victim to it.

Some people are being forcibly unsubscribed for unjust reasons. Many others are leaving voluntarily because they do not appreciate injustice. A few brave ones care enough to stay on to fight that injustice and help correct the problem. The vast majority just observe and fall in line, content in the knowledge that they themselves have not been affected.

This is very much a microcosm for the problems we are all facing in the larger world.

I just heard from Skippy, who has left the premises. He did not say why he left, but he did thank me "for defending true human values." That suggests to me that he is also seeing some problems here at Avalon, enough to cause him to leave. Valuable members are jumping ship in disturbing numbers. This is not the change I want to see in the world of Avalon.

"Houston, we have a problem."

Chico, man,,, you couldn't be more off base. With respect,,, Digging deeper and deeper, looking for a problem, will often create more problems. ESPECIALLY WHEN THERE IS NOT A PROBLEM! You can keep insisting there is a problem. It does not make it true.
"Valuable members are jumping ship in disturbing numbers?????" What are talking about???? Maybe a handful of people have left. I am a mod here, and i am increasingly offended by your accusations of unfair treatment.
Do you have any proof??? anything at all??? anything other than you own personal opinion??? ANYTHING?????????????? People can leave Avalon if they choose. My god, man! There is nothing any of us can do about someone deciding to leave the forum. YOU ASSUME WAY TOO MUCH!!! It is telling when a person insists on knowing all of the dirty laundry of another person. Quite frankly, It is none of your business why folks have been leaving. Unless someone contacts you directly, then you should forget yourself, with regards another members' personal information.

'Houston, it seems only a small handful of people here, have a problem"

The truth is that people are coming to Avalon in great numbers. The application process is neverending, and we have A LOT of new members. Many more than you would consider 'disturbing'.

Feel free to keep pretending that PA staff is out to get ya... I think this is getting quite silly!

[Chicodoodoo]

Digging deeper and deeper, looking for a problem, will often create more problems. ESPECIALLY WHEN THERE IS NOT A PROBLEM!

That there is a problem is clear. There are unsubscribed members and members that left voluntarily talking about these problems on the Nexus forum. I am digging deeper not to uncover problems, but to discover solutions.

I do not have the impression that the PA staff is out to get me. I do have the impression coming from the PA staff that there is some denial about there even being a problem. I point to your heated post as evidence.

[9eagle9]

One's inability to see what is going on doesn't mean there isn't a problem. Staring at videos and interviews of the PTB underhandedness hasn't taught us that? Most of the world can't see what's going on but we in this forum are getting a pretty good idea. Because its NOT seen, doesn't mean what we stand for here , what we examine daily, is wrong does it?

So if its as you say and there is no problem we should should shut this conversation down, agree to go on the way we always have and if nothing changes in two months time we can then agree that SOMETHING must be wrong. Is that agreeable? If the issues that some are seeing abates, then we have to agree there was no problem or it was a self created problem.

I agree that we can't talk and accuse about problems. It then becomes one persons word or opinon against another. What is occuring here must be brought to the surface where it can be seen. It is very difficult to bring content to form, to bring that which is unseen into the physical where everyone can see it TO PROVIDE proof and that is why Chico and others feels frustrated in their attempts to do so. WE are not all on equal footing here if some people are sensing something amiss and AFRAID to talk about it, because with the evidence comes a possible risk of banishment. So how can people feel free in providing evidence?


To suggest there are no problems when it has been made clear and defined by other members 1) invalidates their concerns stating their input in the community is not valuable and at the same time in the next breath attempting to preserve the value of the community members. Those are schisms that oppose each other.

And 2) puts us right back up back into the operating methods of the PTB. You can't prove it so it doesn't exist. Being in the forum daily tells all of us that is not the way it is.

3) suggests that we must provide proof even though that proof will put members in a position of compromising themselves because an agreement of immunity has not been met.

We can't demand honesty and squelch it at the same time.

This is not a conventional issue and it cannot be dealt with in the conventional ways because we and this forum are not conventional in nature.

[andywight]

Just a question!

If I was going to "hypothetically" push the report button on a Admin/Moderator/Moderator in training, would that said action be traced back to that member? :o

[Lord Sidious]

Just a question!

If I was going to "hypothetically" push the report button on a Admin/Moderator/Moderator in training, would that said action be traced back to that member? :o

When you push the button, a thread is automatically started in the mods forum.
And it is started by you.

[ThePythonicCow]

Just a question!

If I was going to "hypothetically" push the report button on a Admin/Moderator/Moderator in training, would that said action be traced back to that member? :o


Yes - always when you push the Report button, you get to state your concern on the next screen, and then all admins and moderators get a Report that shows who submitted the report, when, for what post, and for the stated concern.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Such a Report by itself causes no further -automated- action. It is then up to the admins/mods teams what to do about it, if anything.

[andywight]

Just a question!

If I was going to "hypothetically" push the report button on a Admin/Moderator/Moderator in training, would that said action be traced back to that member? :o

When you push the button, a thread is automatically started in the mods forum.
And it is started by you.

Jeeez! oh my lord, I'm glad now I didn't push the report button on Jake.

[DeDukshyn]

Let me try: As far as I know (but do not know all the details -admittedly) some members broke the guidelines they agreed to when they joined. That has been and always will be grounds for dismissal - just like breaking the rules of the job. That explains the majority of all cases of people are being unsubbed. As for people leaving - they are allowed to. There is no rule that makes them have to stay here, so if the choose to leave, they will. In my opinion trying to dig deeper than this is like witch hunting - but that's just my opinion.

I was actually referring to if anyone knows of any more people, of any more members who have left/been asked to leave. Not reasons.

But if someone wants to continue looking for reasons, totally fine. That's one of the themes of this thread and is a thing many of us have thought about over the last little while.

And oh yes I'll go get my scales and ducks out in a minute and we can weigh everyone up on the test-for-a-witch equipment.

Looking at the political and social dynamics at play here is important for some people and some are becoming disillusioned at what they think Avalon is either doing or standing for. Digging deeper is just what some people DO.

I was wondering whether having a mod "only" thread (closed except for updating) dedicated tolisting members who have left, their reasons for leaving, as well as a list of unsubs and the mods reasoning for the unsub. This would definately make the process more transparent, but perhaps it would just cause even more strife? Hard to say, something to consider though...

Edit: I guess this was just brought up earlier and deemed not worth the effort ...

[ThePythonicCow]

Just a question!

If I was going to "hypothetically" push the report button on a Admin/Moderator/Moderator in training, would that said action be traced back to that member? :o

When you push the button, a thread is automatically started in the mods forum.
And it is started by you.

Jeeez! oh my lord, I'm glad now I didn't push the report button on Jake.

My guess is that it would have been no problem. As you can suspect from the Thanks for Jakes posts, the admins/mods would likely have chosen to do nothing much with your Report. We'd have briefly smiled with appreciation at your straight forward expression of your concerns, integrated that into our continuing expanding (or some fear shrinking) understanding of this all and kept on doing the best we could.

[DevilPigeon]

-----

If I may, I'd suggest a good example of the (perceived) problem was with 'GoldenYears'. Hands up, I don't know the entire history etc, just gleaning from posts I've read, it appears that GoldenYears was retired without warning, strike 1, after a long period of working behind the scenes transcribing and contributing in a positive manner. Whereas I've personally seen other members "pushing the envelope" on numerous occasions, yes they may get a warning and all that, but they're still active.

[ThePythonicCow]

ESPECIALLY WHEN THERE IS NOT A PROBLEM!
On reading others replies to this, I would agree that simply denying there is (or are) problems is not accurate.

But the nature of the problems we (as humans, not just as members of this forum) face, and where to look for understanding ... that's a more subtle matter.

Shouting that the curtains of (by implication - dastardly) censorship must be pulled down - implying that the problem is there, RIGHT THERE, behind those curtains, can be a step toward a solution, or it can be an additional obfuscation of (some of) the real problem(s).

[greybeard]

There are a couple of options that came to mind

(1) The past is past let go and live in the moment (thats my preferred option)

(2) start an immunity thread private to members where people can air their grievances without fear.

The only criteria that I would suggest - no name calling - just state what you believe to be so -- no arguing debate fairly.

Frankly I think the boil, if you can call it that, is just about lanced and bled dry.

Bill and inelia will bring balance and focus now as Bill and Kerry did in the original Avalon which were united on ground crew issues
Over 3000 members and believe me it was harmonious on the whole.

So thats my thoughts, option one the prefernce

We have been through a lot --- a massive influx of members -- the Charles event -- short burst of Enlightenment quickly dispatched by Bill for the right reasons.
The Heather material which rumbled on, the leaving of the old mod team, the James Horak situation.

Probably more but cant think of it

All that in a few month all since January, its no wonder people are unsettled, but that was then this is now.

Regards Chris

[9eagle9]

Hmmmmmmm.

Well then..... an interesting Litmus test will be those who 'sense or see' this lurking undercurrent at this moment and are attempting to bring it up to the surface without crossing preexisting boundaries, will they still be among the membership in a few months time?

Because that's how the problem operates. Get rid of that which can see it.

[ThePythonicCow]

We have been through a lotIndeed .

[ThePythonicCow]

Hmmmmmmm.

Well then..... an interesting Litmus test will be those who 'sense or see' this lurking undercurrent at this moment and are attempting to bring it up to the surface without crossing preexisting boundaries, will they still be among the membership in a few months time?
Is there s a presumption in your Litmus test, 9eagle9, that whatever are the "problems" are roughly what those currently protesting the most are sensing?

As I suspect you know far better than I, often times the "real problem" (that which can actually be usefully addressed in order to gain some improvement) is not the "presenting problem" the patient first describes.

[9eagle9]

Nope, Paul, no presumption although that may be perceived as a challenge.

But its not a challenge to moderation or members.

See ....part of THE PROBLEM's Modus Operandi is that it deludes us into thinking this is about moderation or members. Or Bill or someone. Or anyone. But what it actually is. It's not. "The Problem" isn't really members, or moderators on an individual basis.

My post is a challenge to the problem itself. Less presumptive and more predictive as I've had encounters with "The Problem" before. I know how it operates , it never varies in operation so I take a stone out of the path that it walks along because I know where it will step next. After you watch something walk along a grindstone for twenty five years you really don't need much in the way of savvy to predict where it always has.

So lets not ensnare ourselves in the notion that they problem is US or THEM. It's "THE PROBLEM". At this point this thread reminds me of a bunch of us arguing who is at fault, US or Them, Nexus, Or Avalon, Member A vs. Member B who's fault it is that Planet Niburui is rising on the horizon. Its no one's fault but NIBIRUI's

This is a part of seeing unseen things

If Member C came down with a cold that infected all the community would we treat the cold or kill the member? Kill the member but the cold will remain. The Problem knows this.

I don't reveal a lot about myself because its not necessary for me to credential my own self authority but i have more than enough authority to gauge these situations and they run along predictable lines. Consider my post a means of thwarting The Problem.

Don't make it personal its not.

After all I haven't asked anyone to do anything or challenged any guidelines or asked anyone to do anything what they would otherwise do. Business as usual.



Hmmmmmmm.

Well then..... an interesting Litmus test will be those who 'sense or see' this lurking undercurrent at this moment and are attempting to bring it up to the surface without crossing preexisting boundaries, will they still be among the membership in a few months time?
Is there s a presumption in your Litmus test, 9eagle9, that whatever are the "problems" are roughly what those currently protesting the most are sensing?

As I suspect you know far better than I, often times the "real problem" (that which can actually be usefully addressed in order to gain some improvement) is not the "presenting problem" the patient first describes.

[giovonni]

i believe a simple remedy is just communication. If a member has a question problem or complaint contact the staff first, if no agreed upon solution comes forth there is always Bill. Note, unless it is a personal attack or harassment etc...trust your intuition... just filter it and let it go..

goldenyears i'm hoping you did this?

[ThePythonicCow]

Thank-you, 9eagle9.

[luciole]

See ....part of THE PROBLEM's Modus Operandi is that it deludes us into thinking this is about moderation or members. Or Bill or someone. Or anyone. But what it actually is. It's not. "The Problem" isn't really members, or moderators on an individual basis.

My post is a challenge to the problem itself. Less presumptive and more predictive as I've had encounters with "The Problem" before. I know how it operates , it never varies in operation so I take a stone out of the path that it walks along because I know where it will step next. After you watch something walk along a grindstone for twenty five years you really don't need much in the way of savvy to predict where it always has.

So lets not ensnare ourselves in the notion that they problem is US or THEM. It's "THE PROBLEM". At this point this thread reminds me of a bunch of us arguing who is at fault, US or Them, Nexus, Or Avalon, Member A vs. Member B who's fault it is that Planet Niburui is rising on the horizon. Its no one's fault but NIBIRUI's

This is a part of seeing unseen things



Very well put 9eagle9!

My thoughts exaclty.
Here we are wasting time and energy talking about "who's dunnit"
The same pattern is repeating itself, after the split of PA1, and in the after math of "Charles".

I've also seen the same things happen in groups around me too, and the scenario seems similar!

Could we call this manufacturing dissent?

[greybeard]

I agree with 9eagle9 its not a personal thing its an energy event.
You only have to look at the paper as I have said before in Scotland last week -- mother kills children tries to kill herself -- young lad shoots his girlfriend while cleaning shotgun infront of friends the kills himself it was truly an accident--12year old boy rapes 12 year old girl and on it goes.
This not normal.

The lower astral is very powerful and can take weak minded people over, they fear a rising of consiousness.
We are biing affected as are all the planets by energy coming in from beyond the Sun
When you are aware of these things its easier to step back from anger and frustration.
The energy thats the cause but we have to deal with the repercussions.
Educating people to what is really happening energy wise is helpful.

That and option one. = Live in the Now as best we are able,

Chris

[ThePythonicCow]

i believe a simple remedy is just communication. If a member has a question problem or complaint contact the staff first, if no agreed upon solution comes forth there is always Bill. Note, unless it is a personal attack or harassment etc...trust your intuition... just filter it and let it go..

goldenyears i'm hoping you did this?
Yes, individual concerns can usually be resolved easily and gracefully by approaching the others involved with a bit of trust and respect.

Once one starts shouting accusations and he-saids, she-saids, good solutions become more difficult.

[Hiram]

Thanks for the thoughtful responses so far.

The best recompense for injury, perceived or real, is kindness. (That's not me that's Lao Tzu!)

It will obviate an dis-ease between parties.

It is the answer.

We all have bigger fish to fry.

Lets find a healthy vents for our energy here--and all the new energy that is pouring into our system.

Peace and Love to you all

[DeDukshyn]

Digging deeper and deeper, looking for a problem, will often create more problems. ESPECIALLY WHEN THERE IS NOT A PROBLEM!

That there is a problem is clear. There are unsubscribed members and members that left voluntarily talking about these problems on the Nexus forum. I am digging deeper not to uncover problems, but to discover solutions.

I do not have the impression that the PA staff is out to get me. I do have the impression coming from the PA staff that there is some denial about there even being a problem. I point to your heated post as evidence.

Here's a consideration Chico,

It's of my observation (well I LIVE this philospohy so it is more than an observation for me) that focusing on problems means you will always have problems be "BIG" in your life because you are focusing on them. They are always there, millions of them, you can make anything into a problem if you so desire - anything. Now consider that what you may see as a problem, someone else does not at all. What does this tell you? It tells you that "Problems" are constructs of the dualistic mind and are not a constant at all. In a "whole" mind there are no problems, only processes. One process leads to another leads to another.

The main difference you will see between people who choose to only see "problems" and those who do not is a level of peace and happiness. I used to turn everything into a problem - I was miserable because of all the problems I had. Now when I catch the flu - no problem - just a process of healing. Someone gets angry at me, no problem - whatever makes people angry comes from within themselve. If they have an issue with me and want to talk, let's talk, if not, they can have a happy angry day. Again no problem. It's all up to me, 100%. The ability to change focus and perspective is one of the greatest gifts a human can learn to express.

Good/Bad Right/Wrong Problem/solution Evil/Good it's just another expression of duality. Problems aren't real. Processes are. MHO.

Minor edit for clarity: Now that said, some process are a little harder to work through than others ... that's a given.

[DeDukshyn]

Whew! Good to see this process being worked out! This is turning into a pretty positive and motivational thread these late posts. Thanks all for contibuting. This is just my opinion ;-)

[Chicodoodoo]

focusing on problems means you will always have problems be "BIG" in your life because you are focusing on them.

I focus on solutions. The best solutions require that you identify and understand the problems.


Problems aren't real. Processes are. MHO.

Solutions are processes. They are real, and so are the problems that make the solutions necessary. MHO. ;)

[DeDukshyn]

focusing on problems means you will always have problems be "BIG" in your life because you are focusing on them.

I focus on solutions. The best solutions require that you identify and understand the problems.


Problems aren't real. Processes are. MHO.

Solutions are processes. They are real, and so are the problems that make the solutions necessary. MHO. ;)

Describe "problem" to me in your best words (or just in your head). You will see that it is far more a personal interpretation of a situation. Just keep that in mind. MHO ;-)

[Hervé]

Describe "problem" to me in your best words (or just in your head). You will see that it is far more a personal interpretation of a situation. Just keep that in mind. MHO ;-)
I would tend to agree with that.

Let's take one of TPTW's "problem" as an example: "Their" oil lies under these desertic areas of the planet... they want to exploit it to their total benefit but the locals don't see it that way... hence, conflict of interests. How they "resolve" it? Let's have a war... create dissentions... revolutions... unrests... protests... etc.

What's the real problem? The conflict of interests. Same goes for ideas, ideologies, goals, intentions, point of views, etc.

So, if one focuses on the solution, the underlying reason for the conflict is left unaddressed; i.e., what belongs to whom as in the above example.

Once the real source of the conflict can be outlined; a real, effective, efficient resolving of it can be addressed. You know... symptoms vs. underlying cause...

Most usually, communication is the best way for such dissolving of conflicts.

[RedeZra]

It is kinda eerie when Avalonians just vanishes into the mist like ghosts and those that are left behind don't know why

Perhaps we need a sub-forum where only vanished Avalonians and Mods can write but where we all can view ?

[Lord Sidious]

It is kinda eerie when Avalonians just vanishes into the mist like ghosts and those that are left behind don't know why

Perhaps we need a sub-forum where only vanished Avalonians and Mods can write but where we all can view ?

I don't know that the v bulletin settings would allow banned members to post.
The only way you could arrange it would be to have them able to post in that one area only.

[edina]

Describe "problem" to me in your best words (or just in your head). You will see that it is far more a personal interpretation of a situation. Just keep that in mind. MHO ;-)
I would tend to agree with that.

Let's take one of TPTW's "problem" as an example: "Their" oil lies under these desertic areas of the planet... they want to exploit it to their total benefit but the locals don't see it that way... hence, conflict of interests. How they "resolve" it? Let's have a war... create dissentions... revolutions... unrests... protests... etc.

What's the real problem? The conflict of interests. Same goes for ideas, ideologies, goals, intentions, point of views, etc.

So, if one focuses on the solution, the underlying reason for the conflict is left unaddressed; i.e., what belongs to whom as in the above example.

Once the real source of the conflict can be outlined; a real, effective, efficient resolving of it can be addressed. You know... symptoms vs. underlying cause...

Most usually, communication is the best way for such dissolving of conflicts.


There is another way to solve this; by becoming very present to the situation.

Research into this form of communication is relatively recent, perhaps the last 10 to 15 years. In this form of communication, the gap, or the spaces into us becomes felt, the psychic space, the spiritual space.

People who use the form of communication called presencing (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?13764-Theory-U-Leading-from-the-Future-as-It-Emerges) often describe a sense of feeling something of a field of higher loving intelligence overlay the group, and by simply sitting in this field, perhaps like being in communion with each other, the soulution elegantly and naturally emerges from a level of being/presence that is larger than the level of the problem.

The Quakers and the Amish have been using this for some time now.

When you add the component of how in reality we are all unique expressions of one being, then if one person can become very present to the conflict and then resolve that conflict within themself, it holographically resolves that conflict for the whole.

BTW, this is exactly what I have been doing within my self since I discovered the relationship of Bill's OP on the Integrity thread and the banning three of our friends, based on a suddenly appearing new guideline for behavior that has yet to be written into the Forum guidelines, at least to my knowledge.

I've understood this to be about far more than personalities, and more about this unresolved pattern. And I think Amer Zo, the "conflict of interest" description may very well be spot on.

I've been listening, and becoming very present to the hearts of the people expressing, and feeling for the pattern that seems to get played over and over in these sort of dynamics.

And, I have succeeded in resolving this conflict within myself. I've done this energetically in the subtle fields, so I am not certain I will be able to put this into words yet.

Others here will be able to do this for me. Because we are each helping each other through this.

So, in my experience, it is just a matter of time before more and more of us are seeing this particular pattern resolved.

It Is,...One for All, and All for One!!!

Then we will be on to the next pattern that is blocking our fuller, more True expressions of Self.

There have been so many people here at Avalon and Nexus that have been teaching me from their hearts and their wisdom as they expressed themselves and as I listened.

I simply don't think I can thank everyone enough. Still I will try, I will continue to appreciate the value of all the authentic feeling, and heart-felt wisdom by so, so, many people.

Gracias to all...:grouphug:

I shared in giovanni's friends thread what I felt is a beautiful summary of how I have been experiencing the dynamics of meeting this pattern.

Here's a link to that summary: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?255-Friends&p=205239#post205239

Anyone here remember the Ground Crew Handbooks?

In trying to understand the dynamics of what is going on underneath the surface here to interact with these dynamics in a way that is creative, graceful and with Intent for the highest good of all life. I was led to this quote at the end of the fourth book, "Messages for the Ground Crew", page 31.

"To remain devoted with no recognition in a society that thrives on attention and quick gratification will be a stretch for many who truly desire to serve in some capacity in the days to come. As humanity asks for help, it must also respond to the help that is offered to it, no matter how simple or ineffectual the requested response may seem to them. This is what is required in order that more help may be brought to bear on their behalf. It is a simple plan of a request, a response, a further request, another response, ect.

Always remember, subtle energy is powerful and powerful energy is subtle. It could also be called a "grass-roots movement". Use it!"

[Fred259]

Come on guys, how can we possibly have banned members posting even in a dedicated area, what’s the point of banning them in the first place. Why mods don’t you just have a simple list with the reason they were banned, like so. Ive seen this on other forums…

John Racist comment
Janet Belligerence
Simon Profanity
Fred Being Scottish

Ok done… lets get on…

PS If banned members are posting this also causes more work for the mods does it not?

[9eagle9]

Manufacturing dissent is a good word.

There will eventually come a time where we choose that BEING a community is more important than agenda, schisms, who's right, who'se the authority , who is the flavor of the month, am I validated/invalidated, important, okay, ugly, and Irish.

That's when "The Problem" will cease to have a toe hold.

Until then...we 007 ;)

Margarita's. Shaken not stirred.






See ....part of THE PROBLEM's Modus Operandi is that it deludes us into thinking this is about moderation or members. Or Bill or someone. Or anyone. But what it actually is. It's not. "The Problem" isn't really members, or moderators on an individual basis.

My post is a challenge to the problem itself. Less presumptive and more predictive as I've had encounters with "The Problem" before. I know how it operates , it never varies in operation so I take a stone out of the path that it walks along because I know where it will step next. After you watch something walk along a grindstone for twenty five years you really don't need much in the way of savvy to predict where it always has.

So lets not ensnare ourselves in the notion that they problem is US or THEM. It's "THE PROBLEM". At this point this thread reminds me of a bunch of us arguing who is at fault, US or Them, Nexus, Or Avalon, Member A vs. Member B who's fault it is that Planet Niburui is rising on the horizon. Its no one's fault but NIBIRUI's

This is a part of seeing unseen things



Very well put 9eagle9!

My thoughts exaclty.
Here we are wasting time and energy talking about "who's dunnit"
The same pattern is repeating itself, after the split of PA1, and in the after math of "Charles".

I've also seen the same things happen i groups around me too, and the scenatio seems similar!

Could we call this manufacturing dissent?

[Calz]

Come on guys, how can we possibly have banned members posting even in a dedicated area, what’s the point of banning them in the first place. Why mods don’t you just have a simple list with the reason they were banned, like so. Ive seen this on other forums…

John Racist comment
Janet Belligerence
Simon Profanity
Fred Being Scottish

Ok done… lets get on…

PS If banned members are posting this also causes more work for the mods does it not?

Okay Fred ... have to admit I agree with you this time.

If you want the "story" from the viewpoint of those banned ... most of them are still alive, well and telling their story ... elsewhere.

Fair enough ... in their shoes I expect many would want to have an avenue to vent, rant and express their opinion.

Bill stepped forward as to the rationale for some of these.

Not sure it is necessary as the mods have their hands full already but ... PERHAPS ... for the sake of limiting confusion ... having some sort of thread dedicated for such would not be a bad thing.

It wouldn't take too much "maintenance".

Joe said "thus" and that is worthy of a week vacation ... Joe came back and said "thus" and that is enough.

I think what many people here are having a hard time with is Joe said "thus" over on "that forum" or even pushed a "thank you" button on "that forum".

Freedom of expression is something I expect most all of us agree should be respected.

From a standpoint of integrity I understand ... if you talk smack you should be held "accountable".

Not sure that warrants a permanent ban on another site ... and that imho is the jist of the matter here.

[sandy]

Just a question!

If I was going to "hypothetically" push the report button on a Admin/Moderator/Moderator in training, would that said action be traced back to that member? :o

When you push the button, a thread is automatically started in the mods forum.
And it is started by you.

Jeeez! oh my lord, I'm glad now I didn't push the report button on Jake.

Andywight You are just too funny!!! Still chuckling>>>>thanks I needed that:)

[ThePythonicCow]

I don't know that the v bulletin settings would allow banned members to post.
The only way you could arrange it would be to have them able to post in that one area only.
I'm pretty sure that it would be technically possible to allow retired accounts to post, but only in a particular sub-forum. But I don't recommend doing so, for reasons spelled out below.

We certainly hear some users asking for more visibility into who has left and why. Ilie responded to such a request some posts back, at Post #121 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?18970-Magna-Cartas-and-stuff&p=205839&viewfull=1#post205839). The admin/mods team is in agreement with what Ilie wrote. Most every organization I've been a part of is the same way. There is simply little to be gained from publicizing those who leave on less than favorable terms.

There is plenty of space for those who choose to leave on good terms to do so, and we see the occasional "Farewell" thread from such people who are choosing to focus their energy elsewhere. I thank those who chose to post such threads for their (sometimes substantial) support of Project Avalon and for their decision to leave graciously. I wish them well in their future endeavors.

My current take is that providing a sub-form to those who have left, in which they could post after they leave, would be a bad idea. It would fan the flames of dissension.

Let me spell out why I say that in a couple of ways.

First the "geeky way" (I am a geek at heart.)


I have no interest in forming a sub-forum for those who (1) no longer can or no longer want to participate here in a constructive manner, but who (2) still want to post here. It's hard for me to see (1) + (2) being anything other than (3) those who either (3a) want to post here in a destructive manner or (3b) are still angry that they can't post here. I am frankly at a complete loss to understand why we should give (3a) or (3b) any space on this forum.

Second, the way that will likely be easier to understand.


Most who have left chose to do so on good terms. A few chose to leave tossing insults on the way (which we usually remove), and a few left involuntarily. It seems, both from the (rather few) such posts we've removed here, and from what I've read on a thread on Nexus, that some of these latter people are still justifying their departure with some anger. Both Richard and the mod team at Nexus (from what I see Richard posting), as well as our mod team here, are looking for ways to calm this destructive and divisive dissent, and return our complete focus to the positive work, discussions and learning before us.

There is considerable overlap in purpose and membership between Nexus and Project Avalon, as there is with Project Camelot. Each group will also have its particular areas of focus, depending on the interests and talents of the people contributing to that site. We need to continue to work together, doing what we do well and supporting these other sites in what they do well.

The primary way forward is as always, with the positive contributions of our members.

[Buchanan561]

Let me try: As far as I know (but do not know all the details -admittedly) some members broke the guidelines they agreed to when they joined. That has been and always will be grounds for dismissal - just like breaking the rules of the job. That explains the majority of all cases of people are being unsubbed. As for people leaving - they are allowed to. There is no rule that makes them have to stay here, so if the choose to leave, they will. In my opinion trying to dig deeper than this is like witch hunting - but that's just my opinion.

I was actually referring to if anyone knows of any more people, of any more members who have left/been asked to leave. Not reasons.

But if someone wants to continue looking for reasons, totally fine. That's one of the themes of this thread and is a thing many of us have thought about over the last little while.

And oh yes I'll go get my scales and ducks out in a minute and we can weigh everyone up on the test-for-a-witch equipment.

Looking at the political and social dynamics at play here is important for some people and some are becoming disillusioned at what they think Avalon is either doing or standing for. Digging deeper is just what some people DO.

I was wondering whether having a mod "only" thread (closed except for updating) dedicated tolisting members who have left, their reasons for leaving, as well as a list of unsubs and the mods reasoning for the unsub. This would definately make the process more transparent, but perhaps it would just cause even more strife? Hard to say, something to consider though...

Edit: I guess this was just brought up earlier and deemed not worth the effort ...

Actually it could just be a come and go thread.

Only members could access and read it, and no one could post on it as it would mostly be a one post thread with a nice list of members that leave or new members that come.

Date of leaving and
1. resigns,
2. banned
3. unsubscribed for week, or month etc. but reasons for banment not listed.

and also in this could be a list of new members who had registered and would be found on the forum.

The screen name for this person and profile as layed out by the new member.
like.

"markey" as screen name

joined April 10, 2011,

Age? If desired, country, if desired,

and perhaps a greeting statement from new member.

like.....I am new, here to learn, interested in NWO, ET's, whats going on in the word. etc etc

I think this would be nice and quite helpful for everyone. We would not have to go searching. If someone was banned then they should be able to leave a statement to the forum. And not have the statment altered or 'air brushed'. This would be something new and helpful.

Just a thought but I agree with DeDuk, something to go by both coming and going. This way we are aware of both, those coming in new and those leaving.

Might stop a lot of speculation and grief.

We are not enemies here. We just want peace and understanding of everyone. Live and let live but do it in peace. There are wonderful people here and none are disposable. No one. Emma

[Arpheus]

May i make a suggestion folks,can we stop living in the past and worrying about the future?Can't we all just activate smart mode for a while and live the NOW and focus on the NOW,because as far as i understand from self observation alone the only thing that really matters and will have any effects to really change things is to live in the NOW and be in the NOW,there is nothing else,everything else is completely irrelevant this thread should be closed,time to put past and future aside and live the MOMENT,move on my friends because IT IS WHAT IS IS and WHAT IS DONE IS DONE!i apologize about the caps but i hope it helped express myself a bit better.
Thank you
Peace to you all !

P.s this dwelling brings nothing but pain learn to forgive and be compassionate,at least i am making an effort to try and do that myself .

[loveandgratitude]

What about AMNESTY for banned members, by way of a poll by current members. Then the banned member, if agreed upon by members to reinstate, would be given 1 more chance, after reading and agreeing the behavioural code of ethics and policies, especially regarding respect. Just a thought.

[Calz]

I don't know that the v bulletin settings would allow banned members to post.
The only way you could arrange it would be to have them able to post in that one area only.
I'm pretty sure that it would be technically possible to allow retired accounts to post, but only in a particular sub-forum. But I don't recommend doing so, for reasons spelled out below.

We certainly hear some users asking for more visibility into who has left and why. Ilie responded to such a request some posts back, at Post #121 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?18970-Magna-Cartas-and-stuff&p=205839&viewfull=1#post205839). The admin/mods team is in agreement with what Ilie wrote. Most every organization I've been a part of is the same way. There is simply little to be gained from publicizing those who leave on less than favorable terms.

There is plenty of space for those who choose to leave on good terms to do so, and we see the occasional "Farewell" thread from such people who are choosing to focus their energy elsewhere. I thank those who chose to post such threads for their (sometimes substantial) support of Project Avalon and for their decision to leave graciously. I wish them well in their future endeavors.

My current take is that providing a sub-form to those who have left, in which they could post after they leave, would be a bad idea. It would fan the flames of dissension.

Let me spell out why I say that in a couple of ways.

First the "geeky way" (I am a geek at heart.)


I have no interest in forming a sub-forum for those who (1) no longer can or no longer want to participate here in a constructive manner, but who (2) still want to post here. It's hard for me to see (1) + (2) being anything other than (3) those who either (3a) want to post here in a destructive manner or (3b) are still angry that they can't post here. I am frankly at a complete loss to understand why we should give (3a) or (3b) any space on this forum.

Second, the way that will likely be easier to understand.


Most who have left chose to do so on good terms. A few chose to leave tossing insults on the way (which we usually remove), and a few left involuntarily. It seems, both from the (rather few) such posts we've removed here, and from what I've read on a thread on Nexus, that some of these latter people are still justifying their departure with some anger. Both Richard and the mod team at Nexus (from what I see Richard posting), as well as our mod team here, are looking for ways to calm this destructive and divisive dissent, and return our complete focus to the positive work, discussions and learning before us.

There is considerable overlap in purpose and membership between Nexus and Project Avalon, as there is with Project Camelot. Each group will also have its particular areas of focus, depending on the interests and talents of the people contributing to that site. We need to continue to work together, doing what we do well and supporting these other sites in what they do well.

The primary way forward is as always, with the positive contributions of our members.

Thank you Paul.

I don't think anyone is calling for clarification of reasoning for those that leave voluntarily.

Some offer a "time to move on" post and some don't.

If some are dismayed about something that is up to them whether or not they wish to share.

And let me be clear I am not advocating for one side or another ...

I am trying to be a "voice in the middle" to "mediate" what has caused some confusion and dismay among some members (and I am not necessarily in that camp but trying to voice my understanding of those types of concerns).

We have in one camp the "you are in my house and will adhere to my rules" ... and in the other the "thought police" breaking down the door are carting off long standing members to "FEMA" camps because they dare "rage against the machine".

Metaphorically speaking OF COURSE ... but you get the idea.

When someone leaves employment or is terminated against their will in this country they have the right to verbalize the reason for seperation (sorry drawing a blank on the name of the form).

I agree having an open-ended avenue to vent is not good for the forum at large. Yet having real tangible examples of protocal isn't a bad thing either.

How many people know all the "rules" for this forum? Fine print kinda thing that most people pay lip service to.

If offered a "real" example of John saying "so n so" ... this can and does provide a week vacation ... John coming back and saying "so n so" gets the boot is a more "in your face" type of example of the protocal and expectation of the "manners" that are expected to have the right to "live in this house".

I hope this makes sense?

[Buchanan561]

May i make a suggestion folks,can we stop living in the past and worrying about the future?Can't we all just activate smart mode for a while and live the NOW and focus on the NOW,because as far as i understand from self observation alone the only thing that really matters and will have any effects to really change things is to live in the NOW and be in the NOW,there is nothing else,everything else is completely irrelevant this thread should be closed,time to put past and future aside and live the MOMENT,move on my friends because IT IS WHAT IS IS and WHAT IS DONE AND DONE!i apologize about the caps but i hope it helped express myself a bit better.
Thank you
Peace to you all !

P.s this dwelling brings nothing but pain learn to forgive and be compassionate,at least i am making an effort to try and do that myself .

Oh but how wrong we can be.
What you are saying is totally wrong if I am allowed to speak up and say so.
We must not ever take that attitude as that is why we are in the deep 'chits' as we speak all over the world.

People just caring about the NOW and the feel good in the NOW, until something comes knocking at you door and takes you away.
It is called close a blind eye to everything around you and pretending that all is well if you do not look at it.

There are no monsters here but there are problems and those who are in the know and can see that things are NOT just right have courage to speak up and say so.

I am sorry Arpheus you are so wrong and I usually do not ever say that. We are NOT just in the now, we feel the stings of the past, and have the insight of knowing that there is a probability that it will continue if changes are not made.

Not only changes within the administration, but with everyone who does not have the ability to think before they act and write in a post. As those words will continue to ring like a bell for a long time.

Everyone has to change and until we all realilze that, there will be tension and misunderstandings, and problems for a long time

Things are going on in the very air we breath and we all have to change in order to make the best of our world that is here and now and also for tomorro and the next day, week and year. But we have to stop and look under the rocks to find the little stones that are causing all these ripples. That must be done before we can change Emma

[Arpheus]

Oh but how wrong we can be.
What you are saying is totally wrong if I am allowed to speak up and say so.
We must not ever take that attitude as that is why we are in the deep 'chits' as we speak all over the world.

People just caring about the NOW and the feel good in the NOW, until something comes knocking at you door and takes you away.
It is called close a blind eye to everything around you and pretending that all is well if you do not look at it.

There are no monsters here but there are problems and those who are in the know and can see that things are NOT just right have courage to speak up and say so.

I am sorry Arpheus you are so wrong and I usually do not ever say that. We are NOT just in the now, we feel the stings of the past, and have the insight of knowing that there is a probability that it will continue if changes are not made.

Not only changes within the administration, but with everyone who does not have the ability to think before they act and write in a post. As those words will continue to ring like a bell for a long time.

Everyone has to change and until we all realilze that, there will be tension and misunderstandings, and problems for a long time

Things are going on in the very air we breath and we all have to change in order to make the best of our world that is here and now and also for tomorro and the next day, week and year. But we have to stop and look under the rocks to find the little stones that are causing all these ripples. That must be done before we can change Emma

You either completely missed my point and or you have no idea what i was talking about,first of all i never said anything about feel good,do you understand how self observation works at all ?Have you ever done it?I am sorry who are you to tell me to not ever say anything ?Excuse me?You dont understand that the only way to change is to experience the present and if you lack the ability to understand such a simple concept then i am done here.How are you changing your life?Living in the past and thinking about the future?I am sorry to disappoint you but thats completely unproductive.I will remain living the moment so i can understand the mechanic of how my ego works to i can completely break the shackles of my mind and not be a slave to an entity that is not and does not represent my best interests for the future of all mankind .But you are free to do as you please .

[RedeZra]

It would be nice to know when a member is banned when it happens and the reason why

[An Cailleach]

Maybe we could have a look at the big picture. The HUGE picture that is humanity. NONE of the ins and outs of this will matter in a few years time.

The results of this will matter. To my mind, how the problems of humanity are resolved (or not) will quite simply be a reflection of how this problem is resolved. If a group of highly intelligent and awakened individuals cannot get past this, what are the chances of survival for humanity? Seriously!

I'm gonna throw a word into the mix. When I feel p'd off I use it as a mantra. COMPASSION.

com·pas·sion (km-pshn)
n.
Deep awareness of the suffering of another coupled with the wish to relieve it.

Compassion for all no matter what.

[ThePythonicCow]

I don't think anyone is calling for clarification of reasoning for those that leave voluntarily.


Agreed.

My point in listing those who leave voluntarily is to note that the set of those who would want to post on a departed members list would be mostly those who want to post disruptively. Those who want to post farewells graciously can and sometimes do so.
Those who no longer want to post at all can do just that. They don't post.
Only those who want to post ungraciously would be the ones left posting on such a forum (they now have to find other forums to vent on.)

[Buchanan561]

You either completely missed my point and or you have no idea what i was talking about,first of all i never said anything about feel good,do you understand how self observation works at all ?Have you ever done it?I am sorry who are you to tell me to not ever say anything ?Excuse me?You dont understand that the only way to change is to experience the present and if you lack the ability to understand such a simple concept then i am done here.How are you changing your life?Living in the past and thinking about the future?I am sorry to disappoint you but thats completely unproductive.I will remain living the moment so i can understand the mechanic of how my ego works to i can completely break the shackles of my mind and not be a slave to an entity that is not and does not represent my best interests for the future of all mankind .But you are free to do as you please .
-----------------
I have misunderstood nothing. I read what you wrote and responded accordingly. If this offends you then perhaps your attitude just might be a part of your problem. I know what I am talking about even though you may not and I stand by my above statement.

It is unfortunate that you could not repsond to me in the same spirit that I wrote.

But perhaps that is who you are and not a reflect of me. I Know who I am and how to write in the right spirit.

NO disrespect intended by me but certainly a lot of disrespect displayed by you.
More than what you wrote called for. And certainly more than what I wrote called for. I did not down you about anything, just the NOw of everything. But your post was an entire attack upon my being. And what is this slave to some entity, and all that babble? What does it have to what I wrote.???????

I stand by what I wrote.

You can stand by this 'very hostile attack upon my being' message that you wrote back to me.

Thank for your thoughts. What ever they were as I could not figure out what you were trying to say.


Emma

[dmarie]

What about AMNESTY for banned members, by way of a poll by current members. Then the banned member, if agreed upon by members to reinstate, would be given 1 more chance, after reading and agreeing the behavioural code of ethics and policies, especially regarding respect. Just a thought.

I see this is a good way of handling this problem.

I'm new to the board, but I feel that many have connections here...like a family and like families we don't always get along. I look at is as if my teen son was acting in a way I felt was disrespectful I would tell him what I didn't like about what he said/did and then tell him what I felt would have been a better way to handle the situation. At the same time I would want to know why he said what he did (or whatever the case may be) because I may not be seeing the whole picture. His father and him often have misunderstandings like this, that I have to intervene, because they both are reacting to how what was said (or done) made them feel instead of looking it from the other person's point of view. Also, I have never had to "punish" my son in anyway ....ever....but I feel that's because of the way I treat him by allowing him the room to learn and grow with love and respect.

I also wanted to add that I recognize a few of the names that have been banned from posts that I have read here and I would have loved to seen more from them.

[ThePythonicCow]

Thank for your thoughts. What ever they were as I could not figure out what you were trying to say.
If you cannot figure out what someone is saying, I would suggest not responding with such certainty that they are "totally wrong." Such, as a matter of plain fact, is a hostile attack on the other person.

Are you looking to have me demonstrate my post removing powers again?

Please treat your fellow posters, and their posts, with some respect. Lacking that ... pass that one by and respond to some other post instead.

(Hmmm ... your posts just gave me an idea ... not sure if it can be coded or not, but I'd like a "Post Self-Destruct in so many hours and minutes" option for moderators. Then others can see what is OK and not in the view of moderators, and they can also know they need not worry about responding to it, because the post would go away soon. That, or perhaps at least an option for the Mod to replace the "Reply" button with a (no-op) "Please Don't Reply" button. )

[Calz]

(Hmmm ... your posts just gave me an idea ... not sure if it can be coded or not, but I'd like a "Post Self-Destruct in so many hours and minutes" option for moderators.

Ooooh ... shivers of Mission Impossible Mr Phelps messages.

I'd pull up the vid with the theme song but am too damn lazy :)

*** okay ***


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k55NuWQCh78

[Amer]

“are you looking to have me demonstrate my post removing powers again?” Paul post #170
……. Posts that would just go away?
I am an adult in dialogue, in debate. I may get angry, I may even lose my head and say something that I regret. I may express myself badly. I am human. I am a multitude of opposites in search of a healthy balance. There are those who will help me on my journey and there are those who will hinder me. Those who are willing to listen, to pass on what they have learnt will help me, those who seek to merely shut me up will hinder me. Try to listen to what I am saying, if it is of no worth to you- discard it. If there is a seed for discussion enter in with me, if we express ourselves badly at the outset not to worry, we're good people we'll get the hang of it :o
In dialectics there is the pulse of head and heart, the push the pull, the ebbing and flowing of ideas, the passion (I’m right, no you’re right, no both of us are wrong :o) there is the calm of reflection, the return to the table, the rehashing, apologizing if needs be in order to move on.
But threats no. There can be no threats. Threats instill fear, they produce nothing .
I do not smack my three year old son because it is a weak gesture, we smack children because we can. Because in the impulse of the moment it is an immediate gesture that says more about the adult than the child. Help your child to understand why . Help them to learn not to be afraid of the threat of a hiding.
“are you looking to have me demonstrate my post removing powers again?” ( Paul post #170 )
This is like saying “do that again and I’ll give you a good hiding. Because I can. This will take us nowhere. This is terribly sad.
This is a sad day for the furtherance of dialectical truth, which is the basis of what this forum should be.
:(

[edina]

The Four Agreements:

1, Be Impeccable with your word:

Speak with integrity. Say only what you mean. Avoid using the word to speak against yourself or to gossip about others. Use the power of your word in the direction of truth and love.

2, Don't take anything personally:

Nothing others do is because of you. What others say and do is a projection of their own reality, their own dream. When you are immune to the opinions and actions of others, you won't be the victim of needless suffering.

3, Don't make assumptions:

Find the courage to ask questions and to express what you really want. Communicate with others as clearly as you can to avoid misunderstandings, sadness and drama.

4, Always do your best:

Your best is going to change from moment to moment; it will be different when you are healthy opposed to sick. Under any circumstance, simply do your best, and you will avoid self-judgment. self-abuse and regret.

(Don Miguel Ruiz).

Ok...the above is a great reminder at our continuing development towards being a better person. What we are inside, radiates outwardly, whatever example we set for ourselves is observed by others...in otherwords, lead by example for the greater good.

Not always easy, we all fall from grace, but we are travelling the same road, some wear different shoes but we endevour to improve our being...what else is worthy?

Peace

Ross


Ross, thanks so much for sharing this, I was thinking of this last night.!!!!

I could certainly support this.

So, we have the healing art of apologies/forgiveness.

So, we have The Four Agreements

We have Free Speech moderated by the Golden Rule

We have the opportunity to deepen our noble character by choosing the Virtuous circle rather than the vicious cycle.

Here are some ideas being bantied about at Nexus, I thought I would share with people here at Avalon, for consideration.

[Fructedor]

Posted yesterday on Nexus. Posted here as promised, for transparency's sake - but without any desire to inflame the debate.

***
Well, **** it. In an attempt to make some sense of this new drama, I’ve just finished wading through this thread and half of the Integrity thread at PA, plus frequent redirects to connected posts. It was a long haul, and apart from the intelligence of many of the posts – a constant - to be honest, it was really boring.

It so happened that when the big après-Charles split occurred at PA, leading to Nexus, I was away without regular Internet access. Missed it. It so happens that while all this Inelia stuff went down, I was spending a good deal less time on the forums – in fact, for the last couple of weeks I’ve been spending minimal time at PA and Nexus. I’m fairly busy with work at the moment, but in truth, I know I’m more or less as busy as I want to be. And I’m of no mind at the moment to dedicate the hours it requires to read long threads or even watch long videos, whatever the subject. That seems to come and go in waves, more or less organically – I like organic. So I missed the crux of the matter once again. Maybe it just ain’t my thing.

I watched Project Camelot almost from the beginning, like a book junky wallows in a library, and the information I found there made huge differences to me, either by teaching me things I didn’t know or confirming things I did know or had always suspected. PC split, and I joined PA just after the Charles interview, not specifically because of Charles, but for the first time in ages, I decided to participate in a forum. This was also an evolutionary process for me Then there was the Charles split, and I joined Nexus. The aim for me has always been, rather than research exhaustively each different facet of this life we’re living, to glean an increasing overview of what we call The Big Picture. Access to information I don’t have, and access to and discussion of other points of view. I'm not interested in engaging in arguments about the validity of my POV though, since it's no more than that. No call for imposing it on others either.

I do not like the idea of people being canned for thanking the wrong posts, particularly posts elsewhere. I don’t like ad hominem. I don't like Politically Correct – particularly since that beast seems to morph according to audience – there’s as much ‘alternative’ PC as any other variety. I definitely do not like the nasty slagging tone of some of the posts I’ve seen on this particular thread here (Nexus "Cancelled" thread) – like the ones that appeared on the Project Camelot forum during the Charles furore, they seem to me to be dragging the general tone of the forums down in the direction of some of the bilge you can read on YouTube. I don’t think they’re constructive in any way.

I can understand the anger in some people about unfair treatment – nobody likes that. Modwiz is one of the first people I asked to be my PA friend – we’d shared a little mutual appreciation, and I always thought that he’s an intelligent and humourous commentator. What happened there? I can’t find the posts he got canned for. Have they been expunged? No idea.

I know almost nothing about Inelia apart from one or two posts she wrote. I’d noticed that Bill had been posting about her with increasing frequency, but as I say, I’ve not been paying too much attention lately. I would be interested to know exactly what the beef is, although I admit that that may be little more than morbid curiosity. Modwiz has retired from the debate, so maybe I won’t find out. Maybe I’ll PM him.

As for myself, I think I’m going to stick to looking at threads that interest me and can teach me something – there are plenty, both here and elsewhere. It seems to me that all of this has something to do with the very strong energy that is affecting us all at the moment. Fatigue, tension, deception, confusion – I’ve had a bellyful lately, and many people I know have also. Symptoms of changes occurring below the level of consciousness? I think so – it’s hard not to get swept away sometimes. I have no advice for anyone, but I find we become more efficient as we let these emotional reactions go – it’s best to express them, but not spend any more time there than necessary

The Integrity thread now being closed at PA, I can’t post this there, but if I find a spot, I’ll do that. For what it’s worth.

Best wishes

Fructedor

***
Thinking about all this, I can't help reflecting on the dangers of projection - the pain we can feel on deception is only equal to the power we were prepared to relinquish to others. It can be a very painful lesson, as we all know. I've said this before, but will repeat with respect for all concerned - I think it's a mistake to look to others to solve our own problems - Charles was never a Cockney Buddha, and I'm not expecting Inelia to be a transdimensional godess either. This is our individual path, it's our own responsibility. My godmother, my beloved aunt Didi, once told me that beauty is all around us, we just have to look at it. Decades later, I confirm that she was right - and that's true for truth too.

Best wishes to all

Fructedor

[Buchanan561]

Thank for your thoughts. What ever they were as I could not figure out what you were trying to say.
If you cannot figure out what someone is saying, I would suggest not responding with such certainty that they are "totally wrong." Such, as a matter of plain fact, is a hostile attack on the other person.Are you looking to have me demonstrate my post removing powers again?

Please treat your fellow posters, and their posts, with some respect. Lacking that ... pass that one by and respond to some other post instead.

(Hmmm ... your posts just gave me an idea ... not sure if it can be coded or not, but I'd like a "Post Self-Destruct in so many hours and minutes" option for moderators. Then others can see what is OK and not in the view of moderators, and they can also know they need not worry about responding to it, because the post would go away soon. That, or perhaps at least an option for the Mod to replace the "Reply" button with a (no-op) "Please Don't Reply" button. )

Paul. I think that perhaps you need to re-read the entirity of my interchange with Arpheus you will discover that you have accused me of something I did not do. All this from your misreading the entire conversation. The comment about not understanding what he was saying was from his response to my post. Not from his origional post. I was just saying that I could not understand what he was saying in his response to me. And his attitude towards me. I did not attack him, I merely implied that sweeping something under the rug would not eliminate the problem. It would fester and continue like it is right now at this moment. You have falsely accused me of something. I do not know if this was a mis look over on your part or an intentional sting in order to allow you to make a threatening threat against me.

As long as all these problems have been going on here on Avalon I have never said or did anything to cause you or any administration person to say such horrible things to me as you just have. I have done everything in my power to try and keep the noise level down. I have intentionally set an example of how not to try and destroy the owners or management of either forum. It is not right. We are their guests, but we are the ones who keep these forums financially afloat so we are not getting a free ride at your expense. Perhaps you are gettig a free ride at ours. These forums are not an island unto themselves, and they are not free. I have never said such horrible things to you or your management and this attack and threats at me are all uncalled for. My post was written in a professional manner as all of mine are but the other party to this has not. I just wonder how long it will take for this message post to disappear into nothing and I be banned like the others. Emma

[edina]

With respect to what I believe was the intent of the OP, I do feel that finding some way to address the concern of transparency does seem warranted. I'd like to express my support for some of the ideas presented by the people here in this regard.

I was like Whiskey_Mystic, when I originally read Bill's OP in the Integrity thread, I took what he said at face value. I thought he was talking about the need for Integrity in general, as you can see my very enthusiastic response to this in this post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?18908-Integrity&p=202077#post202077), this post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?18908-Integrity&p=202463#post202463), and this post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?18908-Integrity&p=202551#post202551).

I thought the separation that he was talking about was the apparent separation, or moving in a new direction between he and Kerry. I took this all in from an innocent point of view that this was simply a general discussion about an important topic.

However, I am also a member of Nexus, and when I learned from my own personal experience that his post was directly related to the cancellation of three people, one of which still wasn't even certain she was banned, for newly imposed, and yet still unclear, unspoken and unwritten guidelines for membership,... to say the least, I felt blindsided, duped, and played.

In the meantime, the OP went on to do what I call name calling, and there have been plenty of caustic and acidic posts written by people here in a similar way for which we are told is the reason why these three people who were banned.

This appears to be a double standard to me. And an arbitrarily applied one at that.

I would like to see this issue addressed, in some way.

It smacks of an abuse of authority, whether there was an intentional abuse of authority, or not

In speaking about how to govern ourselves we have to consider too, how to do we govern ourselves when the rules of our engagement shift by whim and are not enforced unilaterally.

WE ARE ALL EQUAL HERE, NO MORE, OR NO LESS.

I genuinely feel there is an ongoing injustice being done here.

And while I am all for healing, and believe me I will continue to work toward this, I believe that as long as the structure for this injustice still stands, TRUE healing will be compromised.

And I'd like to add a note here.

I feel this exercise in examining how a community governs itself is very important, we will all be facing these issues very soon, as the events that are unfolding right now continue to evolve.

Any clarity we gain on this now, through this type of discussion, may very well indeed help smooth the transition into the SOC's, or Self Organising Communities, that clif high and others see happening in our very near future.

We will want to address the issues of someone assuming power, the wise and mature use of personal power, and how we want to govern ourselves in stress filled times.

[edina]

Thanks Fructedor!!!!

I think I will do the same, for the same reason. Openness and transparency.


I've been through this before with another ning, one kept banning people, and as people came to new one, somewhat raw, they would immediately start to express.

People who had already processed the pain helped initially, and then they began to become impatient with the process, because they were ready to move on.

However, the newly wounded people were not, they were freshly wounded.

I think by having a singular noticeable place for a newly banned person to post, and express themselves fresh from the fray would prevent lots of little ones where people come in here simply churning in turmoil.

Like Ross mentioned earlier to Bill at Avalon, do it all at once, but this doesn't always work out in reality. It will continue to happen in stages, and waves.

It's possible to me that we could have an edit in the OP, explaining the purpose of the post with a link for help in healing quickly and with dignity.

Hiram said what was needed is kindness. Hiram is right!!!

I had been reading the Integrity thread to listen to people's hearts on the matter. I kept trying to understand what the whole point was that I had somehow missed.

Eventually, aside from the appearance that it was written as a means to justify a new guideline for banning three people who had not been given notice that the membership guidelines had suddenly changed....?????

I honestly felt that perhaps its intention, was less about integrity and more about treating people with dignity, courtesy and respect, whether that person is present, or not present.

There are some very real practical reasons to want to consider how we choose to express ourself. Much of this has to do with the energy we attract, from one of the machines, and from certain ET/Hyperdimensional entities, when we resonate very strongly in a negative frequency.

I had hoped to present this sort of thinking in the Integrity Thread, but it was closed before I felt I had it settled in my mind right. I was still trying to sort things out.

I was raised by a metaphysical, psychic, mystic. My mother has memories of living in the Essene communities, among many of her other memories. She very much emphasised the practising of virtues in deepening my character, and in spiritual development.

I was raised with the understanding that the natural expression of spiritual abilities emerged from the development of spiritual maturity. She often counselled me to be cautious of trying to develop abilities for abilities sake, because without the balance of spiritual maturity, these natural abilities could express themselves in destructive ways.

So, as greybeard said, it's important to develop a human bond, if we hope to meet the challenges of our times with any grace.

Perhaps we might look at how the commitment to treat others the way we would like to be treated and to strengthen our noble character may be one of the ways to express the new paradigm, of unified sovereignty, the self government of sovereigns in a way that also strengthens our human bond, with each other, nature and the greater cosmic community.

I am also a member on an amazing ning, EarthChangesCollege.ning (http://www.earthchanges.ning.com/) There they value free speech, moderated by the Golden Rule. This is not a religious thing, although it can be for many of the members there.

There is a consideration of what a reasonable person would want. And good example of how this gets applied there, is people don't pick apart another's opinions, because most reasonable people don't want to have their opinions harped on.

The ning is set up so that before any one joins, they agree to follow this guideline.
It keeps the trolls, real trolls, not real people being named called as trolls, at bay.

Here's a link to the welcome center (http://earthchanges.ning.com/profiles/blogs/welcome-center) for people to look at this to give this idea some consideration.

This guideline has worked exceedingly well, I believe they have had to ban only 3 to 4 people since last summer.

Every one there self governs.

The people express freely, and they treat each other with an enormous sence of respect and dignity. There really are no other rules there.

It is so simple, and elegantly beautiful.

[edina]

About this issue of name calling, this does happen more than most people realise, so I would like to offer my observation on this, to be helpful.

Statements of being feel like name calling to me, ie

Don't be so ridiculous.
You are being stupid here
They are trolls, ignorant....
You are wrong.

These are statements addressing a person's being, rather than a person's thoughts, opinion, or behavior.

Most people do this unconsiously.

WE are all wired with mirror neurons. Research indicates that children in classrooms where teacher verbally abuse other children will react in their brains as if they were themselves receiving the abuse.
The felt affect in the children's bodies are the same, regardless of where the teacher is directing the abuse.

Name calling is considered below the belt, painful, hurtful, ergo abusive communication.

When I see this, I always wince inside. It actually feels painful to me, and awkward and uncomfortable about how to address.
I personally believe that most people do not intend to name call, it happens because people haven't always considered how to express a particular sentiment in such a way as to separate the being of a person, from the behavior of a person.

For people who want to consider this, just edit your comments to ensure you are not using the "being" sentence structure. Say the same thing, express the same content. But check before you send to ensure your addressing action, it takes an unnecessary sting out of the communication.

[ulli]

We are their guests, but we are the ones who keep these forums financially afloat so we are not getting a free ride at your expense. Perhaps you are gettig a free ride at ours. These forums are not an island unto themselves, and they are not free.

We must distinguish between websites that require a fixed subscription fee, and therefore are not free,
and websites that are financed by VOLUNTARY donations.
Avalon is still a FREE site.

[Jendayi]

i am of to cry in my own little corner.... or should i laugh?
i don't know anymore.... this has become 1 of 2 things.. a tragedy (which breaks my heart) or a comedy (if so, i hope we are given the punchline soon! this is quite a stretch for my sense of humor )
i leave you with these lyrics....
***************************

Remember when you ran away and I got on my knees and begged you not to leave because I'd go berzerk?
Well, you left me anyhow and the days got worse and worse and now you see I've gone completely out of my mind.

And They're coming to take me away Ha Ha
They're coming to take me away ho ho he he ha ha
to the funny farm where life is beautiful all the time, and I'll be happy to see those nice young men in their clean white coats
and they're coming to take me away ha ha

You thought it was joke and so you laughed, you laughed when I had said that losing you would make me flip my lid, right? You know you laughed, I heard you laugh, you laughed, you laughed and laughed and then you left, but now you know I'm utterly mad.

And they're coming to take me away Ha Ha
They're coming to take me away ho ho he he ha ha
To the happy home with trees and flowers and chirping birds and basket weavers who sit and smile and twiddle their thumbs and toes
They're coming to take me away ha ha...

I cooked your food, I cleaned your house, and this is how you paid me back for all my kind unselfish loving deeds. Huh? Well you just wait they'll find you yet, and when they do they'll put you in the ASPCA you mangy mutt.

And They're coming to take me away Ha Ha

They're coming to take me away ho ho he he ha ha
To the funny farm where life is beautiful all the time and I'll be happy to see those nice men in their clean white coats
They're coming to take me away Ha Ha
To the happy home with trees and flowers and chirping birds and basket weavers who sit and smile and twiddle thier thumbs and toes
They're coming to take me away Ha Ha Ha

Your home the one the bank foreclosed, You cried to me Monogamy is the way we both must live or you'll feel hurt. But, I see, I see there's someone new, your anxious poly-pure-bred coat was even gone at our place while I paid the rent, thanks!

And They're coming to take me away Ha Ha
They're coming to take me away ho ho he he ha ha
To the loony bin with all you can eat prescription drugs like torazine, and lithium, and electric shock and insulin
They're coming to take me away Ha Ha

Lard - "They're come to take me away"

[Isostool]

Emma - I noticed that misreading by Paul also in getting your responses mixed up and somewhat misreading your style of presentation - strong in voice and not so heavy on the frills. I write a bit like that too. What I wanted to say was I am very sure that Paul did not do it with malicious intent.

I look to the bottom of the screen and see that Nagual is now in grey meaning that if he wasn't retired before, he is now. Thought you might as well, eh?

Ner ner ne ner ner
you can't an swer:p

[c u at nexus tho!!]

[Donna O]

Emma, without wishing to be involved in the latest row, I would like to suggest respectfully that you take another look at your first response to arpheus and try to understand how your words could have been read by him.

You told him he was wrong, no question, and that he should never say such things. Perhaps that is where the misunderstanding has come from? Perhaps you should endeavor to consider how your posts may be received in the future and learn from this. We all do it from time to time and it’s an ongoing process.


Peace






Thank for your thoughts. What ever they were as I could not figure out what you were trying to say.
If you cannot figure out what someone is saying, I would suggest not responding with such certainty that they are "totally wrong." Such, as a matter of plain fact, is a hostile attack on the other person.Are you looking to have me demonstrate my post removing powers again?

Please treat your fellow posters, and their posts, with some respect. Lacking that ... pass that one by and respond to some other post instead.

(Hmmm ... your posts just gave me an idea ... not sure if it can be coded or not, but I'd like a "Post Self-Destruct in so many hours and minutes" option for moderators. Then others can see what is OK and not in the view of moderators, and they can also know they need not worry about responding to it, because the post would go away soon. That, or perhaps at least an option for the Mod to replace the "Reply" button with a (no-op) "Please Don't Reply" button. )

Paul. I think that perhaps you re-read the entirity of my interchange with Arpheus you will discover that you have accused me of something I did not do. All this from your misreading the entire conversation. The comment about not understanding what he was saying was from his response to my post. Not from his origional post. I was just saying that I could not understand what he was saying in his response to me. And his attitude towards me. I did not attack him, I merely implied that sweeping something under the rug would not eliminate the problem. It would fester and continue like it is right now at this moment. You have falsely accused me of something. I do not know if this was a mis look over an intentional sting in order to allow you to make a threatened threat against me.

As long as all these problems have been going on here on Avalon I have never said or did anything to cause you or any administration person to say such horrible things to me as you just have. I have done everything in my power to try and keep the noise level down. I have intentionally set an example of how not to try and destroy the owners or management of either forum. It is not right. We are their guests, but we are the ones who keep these forums financially afloat so we are not getting a free ride at your expense. Perhaps you are gettig a free ride at ours. These forums are not an island unto themselves, and they are not free. I have never said such horrible things to your or your management and this attack and threats at me are all uncalled for. My post was written in a professional manner as all of mine are but the other party to this has not. I just wonder how long it will take for this message post to disappear into nothing and I be banned like the others. Emma

[Arpheus]

Emma, without wishing to be involved in the latest row, I would like to suggest respectfully that you take another look at your first response to arpheus and try to understand how your words could have been read by him.

You told him he was wrong, no question, and that he should never say such things. Perhaps that is where the misunderstanding has come from? Perhaps you should endeavor to consider how your posts may be received in the future and learn from this. We all do it from time to time and it’s an ongoing process.


Peace






Thank for your thoughts. What ever they were as I could not figure out what you were trying to say.
If you cannot figure out what someone is saying, I would suggest not responding with such certainty that they are "totally wrong." Such, as a matter of plain fact, is a hostile attack on the other person.Are you looking to have me demonstrate my post removing powers again?

Please treat your fellow posters, and their posts, with some respect. Lacking that ... pass that one by and respond to some other post instead.

(Hmmm ... your posts just gave me an idea ... not sure if it can be coded or not, but I'd like a "Post Self-Destruct in so many hours and minutes" option for moderators. Then others can see what is OK and not in the view of moderators, and they can also know they need not worry about responding to it, because the post would go away soon. That, or perhaps at least an option for the Mod to replace the "Reply" button with a (no-op) "Please Don't Reply" button. )

Paul. I think that perhaps you re-read the entirity of my interchange with Arpheus you will discover that you have accused me of something I did not do. All this from your misreading the entire conversation. The comment about not understanding what he was saying was from his response to my post. Not from his origional post. I was just saying that I could not understand what he was saying in his response to me. And his attitude towards me. I did not attack him, I merely implied that sweeping something under the rug would not eliminate the problem. It would fester and continue like it is right now at this moment. You have falsely accused me of something. I do not know if this was a mis look over an intentional sting in order to allow you to make a threatened threat against me.

As long as all these problems have been going on here on Avalon I have never said or did anything to cause you or any administration person to say such horrible things to me as you just have. I have done everything in my power to try and keep the noise level down. I have intentionally set an example of how not to try and destroy the owners or management of either forum. It is not right. We are their guests, but we are the ones who keep these forums financially afloat so we are not getting a free ride at your expense. Perhaps you are gettig a free ride at ours. These forums are not an island unto themselves, and they are not free. I have never said such horrible things to your or your management and this attack and threats at me are all uncalled for. My post was written in a professional manner as all of mine are but the other party to this has not. I just wonder how long it will take for this message post to disappear into nothing and I be banned like the others. Emma

Ahhh exactly thank you so much for pointing to the root of the problem my friend,maybe i overreacted but thats exactly how i read it she told me i was wrong and that i should never say such things,and i am sorry but last i checked it is up to me to decide whats wrong and what i should or should not say,read your first response again Emma .

[Jendayi]

[
Ahhh exactly thank you so much for pointing to the root of the problem my friend,maybe i overreacted but thats exactly how i read it she told me i was wrong and that i should never say such things,and i am sorry but last i checked it is up to me to decide whats wrong and what i should or should not say,read your first response again Emma .

i would say the above applies to all of us.... if you wish to be who you are and express yourself accordingly, please bare in mind you are not alone... we all have this wish...
i know i do.. it is also up to Emma (and others) to decide what's wrong for her and what she should or should not say.....
if we would unconditionally allow others to express whatever it is they are feeling.. then we would allow them a space to heal the underlying pain of what is said...
sometimes people need to curse, shout or point fingers before they can start crying to release the pain... if this is allowed... peace and laughter will be the result....
so many suppressed feelings, emotions and pains... we need to let those out before we can move on...
we all do this so please respect each other for it instead of adding another layer of your own pain...
time to let go.....
i love you...

namaste

p.s. i suggest opening up a special thread where people can express their deepest frustrations.. any reaction on these frustrations will not be allowed.. a simple "venting" thread to let go.. no personal attacks, no retributions for what is said... by looking at pain without responding to it, we can allow it it's due course so the core of the matter can be reached without this process being delayed by other people's "opinions"
(can't help wondering which "forum" has the courage to do this, as it will uncover a lot!)

[Jake]

It would be nice to know when a member is banned when it happens and the reason why

Hello RedeZra. Actually, this idea was tossed around, briefly. It is not going to happen. I see the reasons why you feel it would help in situations like this. I, personally, would never agree to a situation where we air someones private business and create more embarrassment or animosity towards a member or a retired member. I do not think that would be fair to them. I think we would risk the possibility of folks 'piling on' or 'throwing stones' at a person. Many times when a person is given a vacation or is asked to leave, it is quite embarrasing for the person. Contrary to the belief of some, we do not make decisions to hurt or harm anyone. I hope that addresses your concern, or at least partially. Best regards, Jake.

[Buchanan561]

Quote: hhh exactly thank you so much for pointing to the root of the problem my friend,maybe i overreacted but thats exactly how i read it she told me i was wrong and that i should never say such things,and i am sorry but last i checked it is up to me to decide whats wrong and what i should or should not say,read your first response again Emma .

I have read my first response and I said We

Sometimes I forget to stay in the same tense too..

You will notice that my opening statement was "oh we can be so wrong'."[

and I failed to keep it at we.

I was in the same mode of thinking when this all started at first and that is why I started out with the "we can be so wrong" because at first when all this started it was "we" as although I was supportive of those banned I was encouraging behind the scenes to not be so strong about what was going on and to keep it down. Let it be. Don't make a big issue over it. etc etc.

Everone who knows me knows that what I said here is true. And that is what matters to me right now. My friends. I meant you no harm. I just wanted you to know, to realize, that they needed to air their feelings and get it out there before they could ever start healing. They needed to be heard and understood.

Others may have carried it even further than I would have liked but that was not my call to make. I am sorry if I have offended you, as it was not my intention, but I did not want their avenue of venting switched off and them silenced just because one poster did not approve of it. And anyone else in their position would not have either. And I wanted for you to understand that. To not be insensitive to their needs.

I had no personal reason to want to 'attack" you as I don't even know you. I have been spending most of my time reading others posts as that is how I get my feel of other people and how they are. I study people. Some of them know that. However I have been around Avalon1 & Avalon2 and Camelot for a long time. I don't hurt people. I am a healer.

I did not want to be drawn into the negative regarding the administration. I made many posts in many different areas that I would not be involved in saying anything against any administrtion of either forum as I have nothing against either of them so I really took Pauls' remarks poorly. They were uncalled for and very painful. You just do not treat your members that way under any circumstances. It is just not right and should not be who we are. I had gotten along well with Bill Ryan and others and wanted to keep it that way. One incident with Bill but I just let it slide. But it caused me to be on my guard.

Others people fights regarding the administration was not my fight and I wanted to keep it that way. I didn't want to get my hands dirty with someone else's problems. Well, how wrong I was. I had to get involved but not with any administration and I posted that feeling everywhere. And I posted that I had never spoken poorly about them in the past and never would as that is not who I am. But the grief continued and I had to become a part of that as there were people who I cared about involved.

Emma

[edina]

Emma, without wishing to be involved in the latest row, I would like to suggest respectfully that you take another look at your first response to arpheus and try to understand how your words could have been read by him.

You told him he was wrong, no question, and that he should never say such things. Perhaps that is where the misunderstanding has come from? Perhaps you should endeavor to consider how your posts may be received in the future and learn from this. We all do it from time to time and it’s an ongoing process.


Peace






Thank for your thoughts. What ever they were as I could not figure out what you were trying to say.
If you cannot figure out what someone is saying, I would suggest not responding with such certainty that they are "totally wrong." Such, as a matter of plain fact, is a hostile attack on the other person.Are you looking to have me demonstrate my post removing powers again?

Please treat your fellow posters, and their posts, with some respect. Lacking that ... pass that one by and respond to some other post instead.

(Hmmm ... your posts just gave me an idea ... not sure if it can be coded or not, but I'd like a "Post Self-Destruct in so many hours and minutes" option for moderators. Then others can see what is OK and not in the view of moderators, and they can also know they need not worry about responding to it, because the post would go away soon. That, or perhaps at least an option for the Mod to replace the "Reply" button with a (no-op) "Please Don't Reply" button. )

Paul. I think that perhaps you re-read the entirity of my interchange with Arpheus you will discover that you have accused me of something I did not do. All this from your misreading the entire conversation. The comment about not understanding what he was saying was from his response to my post. Not from his origional post. I was just saying that I could not understand what he was saying in his response to me. And his attitude towards me. I did not attack him, I merely implied that sweeping something under the rug would not eliminate the problem. It would fester and continue like it is right now at this moment. You have falsely accused me of something. I do not know if this was a mis look over an intentional sting in order to allow you to make a threatened threat against me.

As long as all these problems have been going on here on Avalon I have never said or did anything to cause you or any administration person to say such horrible things to me as you just have. I have done everything in my power to try and keep the noise level down. I have intentionally set an example of how not to try and destroy the owners or management of either forum. It is not right. We are their guests, but we are the ones who keep these forums financially afloat so we are not getting a free ride at your expense. Perhaps you are gettig a free ride at ours. These forums are not an island unto themselves, and they are not free. I have never said such horrible things to your or your management and this attack and threats at me are all uncalled for. My post was written in a professional manner as all of mine are but the other party to this has not. I just wonder how long it will take for this message post to disappear into nothing and I be banned like the others. Emma

If this is true, that Emma was banned for the above statements, then perhaps Bill Ryan should be banned too.

The first three comments and examples I presented of name calling were made from Bill Ryan.

At least one of them were in his comments in the recently closed Integrity Thread.

This emphasises my increasing concern of an apparent double standard being applied here in the Avalon forum in a way that may, or may not be arbitrary, may, or may not be intentional and seems to favor some people over others.

If we can extend the benefit of a doubt and understanding to Bill Ryan, that he probably did not intend to resort to the negative frequency tactic of name calling, I would hope we could do the same with Emma.

Just something to consider....

Oops, I apologise, I misunderstood, my bad... :o
Still, patience and a genuine open heart to listen and understand each other is probably a good way to go all around, don't you think?

[edina]

What about AMNESTY for banned members, by way of a poll by current members. Then the banned member, if agreed upon by members to reinstate, would be given 1 more chance, after reading and agreeing the behavioural code of ethics and policies, especially regarding respect. Just a thought.

loveandgratitude

I very much appreciate this idea, and I hope it gets serious consideration. I feel a good portion of the misunderstandings going on here lie in the fact that there has been a major change in the supposed forum guidelines, if the bannings, and people leaving voluntarily could be reconsidered until the whole community, if it is to be a community, can get a much better feel, and understanding of the new ideas for membership status then we may be able to alleviate much of the unnecessary frustration and suffering going on in all directions of this issue.

To be honest, I don't really know if the membership has much of a voice in this any more, but, just in case we do. Please give this some consideration.

[Jendayi]

before we get into wild assumptions...

Emma is still an active member at avalon ;-)

[Donna O]

If this is true, that Emma was banned for the above statements, then perhaps Bill Ryan should be banned too.

The first three comments and examples I presented of name calling were made from Bill Ryan.

At least one of them were in his comments in the recently closed Integrity Thread.

This emphasises my increasing concern of an apparent double standard being applied here in the Avalon forum in a way that may, or may not be arbitrary, may, or may not be intentional and seems to favor some people over others.

If we can extend the benefit of a doubt and understanding to Bill Ryan, that he probably did not intend to resort to the negative frequency tactic of name calling, I would hope we could do the same with Emma.

Just something to consider....Emma hasn't been banned, jumping to conclusions and slinging more mud at Bill isn't going to help anything.

[Buchanan561]

Re: Magna Cartas and stuff
(1) Emma, without wishing to be involved in the latest row, I would like to suggest respectfully that you take another look at your first response to arpheus and try to understand how your words could have been read by him.

(2) You told him he was wrong, no question, and that he should never say such things. Perhaps that is where the misunderstanding has come from? Perhaps you should endeavor to consider how your posts may be received in the future and learn from this. We all do it from time to time and it’s an ongoing process.

1. No I didn't. Perhaps you might want to read my response to him. A lot of misinformation going on I am afraid. My first comment to him was. "We are so wrong" and then in my last response I explained that to him. Thank you for bringing that to my attention. Perhaps you may want to re read it all.
And do you not think that his words of wanting to shut the peoples voice down was something to cause others concern? And the way he put it in his post. Did you read that? Those reading it did not take it lightly. That they were wanted shut up. Arpheus and I both were hasty in writing and in err. It happens. But my mind was on those who were wanted to be shut off. He did not perhaps understand.

These two forums run on donations. They can call it what they choose but they need the donated money to keep these two facilities going. As it should be but.......but not if the members can be just shut out at a whim with no ability to denfend themselves and the doors locked to them.

I heard, and I may have been told wrong but doubt it, In january when Bill Asked for money to get a larger server as he could not handle the new "Charles" load people donated enough money to keep this place going for a year. So, we the donars are keeping this place running. Put any other title you need to it, but it is Our money that keeps this place afloat. And I donated a lot of money when he requested it. It is a symbiotic relationship it seems.

[Fred259]

Mods,

Where is Dale these days?

[Donna O]

Thank you Emma, and I can see now how you were intending to respond to Arpheus.

I was relaying to you the tone that came over in your post, that being that you were telling him he was wrong and shouldn’t say such things, I wasn’t quoting you word for word. I was trying to explain the way Arpheus, and probably a good few others, had interpreted your post. It’s not singular words that always make the difference; it’s the overall tone of the statement. I’m sure this isn’t so serious as to continue the argument is it, Arpheus already said he overreacted? How bout we all let this one go?...Just a suggestion J



Re: Magna Cartas and stuff
(1) Emma, without wishing to be involved in the latest row, I would like to suggest respectfully that you take another look at your first response to arpheus and try to understand how your words could have been read by him.

(2) You told him he was wrong, no question, and that he should never say such things. Perhaps that is where the misunderstanding has come from? Perhaps you should endeavor to consider how your posts may be received in the future and learn from this. We all do it from time to time and it’s an ongoing process.1. No I didn't. Perhaps you might want to read my response to him. A lot of misinformation going on I am afraid. My first comment to him was. "We are so wrong" and then in my last response I explained that to him. Thank you for bringing that to my attention. Perhaps you may want to re read it all.
And do you not think that his words of wanting to shut the peoples voice down was something to cause others concern? And the way he put it in his post. Did you read that? Those reading it did not take it lightly. That they were wanted shut up. Arpheus and I both were hasty in writing and in err. It happens. But my mind was on those who were wanted to be shut off. He did not perhaps understand.

These two forums run on donations. They can call it what they choose but they need the donated money to keep these two facilities going. As it should be but.......but not if the members can be just shut out at a whim with no ability to denfend themselves and the doors locked to them.

I heard, and I may have been told wrong but doubt it, In january when Bill Asked for money to get a larger server as he could not handle the new "Charles" load people donated enough money to keep this place going for a year. So, we the donars are keeping this place running. Put any other title you need to it, but it is Our money that keeps this place afloat. And I donated a lot of money when he requested it. It is a symbiotic relationship it seems.

[ThePythonicCow]

But threats no. There can be no threats. Threats instill fear, they produce nothing .
I do not smack my three year old son because it is a weak gesture, we smack children because we can. Because in the impulse of the moment it is an immediate gesture that says more about the adult than the child. Help your child to understand why . Help them to learn not to be afraid of the threat of a hiding.

If I am at a large meeting, sitting in an audience of hundreds or thousands of people, listening to a speaker or perhaps a group panel discussion or perhaps to individuals, taking the microphone one at a time to pose questions, answers and comments, ... and if I have brought my young child with me and that child starts to scream and make loud, incessant noises, then I step outside the meeting with my child. If my child routinely behaves this way in such a venue, or if the child shows strong intention to do so, with no apparent learning how to behave in such venues, I cease bringing them there in the first place.

One has a responsibility to raise one's child well. One also has a responsibility to one's society to be well behaved (for some definition thereof) and to watch out for the well being of others.

We all have seen flame wars ruin good threads on this and other forums. It is a common occurrence. A few people get in a hot interaction, each convinced that one or more of the others is wrong and needs to be corrected and perhaps driven away, "for the good of the discussion and so that less aware participants will not be harmed or fooled."

Threads are destroyed this way. Most participants shake their head and wander off, no longer able to find whatever useful insights they had hoped might be in that discussion, for such is buried in the muck of disruptive dissent.

Part of the job of the admins/mods is to keep that from happening, and to minimize the disruption when it does. Sometimes this means escorting someone out of the hall, for that is the best we know to do, in the here and now, with our limited talents and energies.

Moreover, beyond any reasonable doubt, there are a few lurking intentional disruptors amongst us, who work (wittingly or not) for some counter-intelligence agency or such dark force, and who intend to destroy us. So far as I know, we cannot identify who such are with absolute reliability, and so far as I know, our well being depends on continuing to root them out, just as our bodies well being depends on continuing to kill cells that start to become cancerous.

For this reason, or perhaps other similar reasons, destructive energy is flowing into to this forum (intentionally destructive.) We need to turn that flow off, which sometimes means removing the members through whom that energy is flowing (whether they understand and agree, or not.)

[ThePythonicCow]

Mods,

Where is Dale these days?

Offhand - I don't know where he is. His forum status is "Retired."

[ThePythonicCow]

I look to the bottom of the screen and see that Nagual is now in grey
Nagual retired yesterday, at his request.

Prior to that he was a member in good standing here. He had posted a farewell thread a month ago, and not posted since. He never raised to us any concerns regarding his password setting.

[Dorok]

<snip>
Moreover, beyond any reasonable doubt, there are a few lurking intentional disruptors amongst us, who work (wittingly or not) for some counter-intelligence agency or such dark force, and who intend to destroy us. So far as I know, we cannot identify who such are with absolute reliability, and so far as I know, our well being depends on continuing to root them out, just as our bodies well being depends on continuing to kill cells that start to become cancerous.

For this reason, or perhaps other similar reasons, destructive energy is flowing into to this forum (intentionally destructive.) We need to turn that flow off, which sometimes means removing the members through whom that energy is flowing (whether they understand and agree, or not.)

That appears to be a highly subjective altho an honest summary of exactly what many have been complaining about. Not sure how one can distinguish between that criteria and "Because I said so". That is not transparent at all, and at worst, it could be seen as an accusation of some kind of 'negative possession' of certain members. If, in fact, that is the case, shouldn't we work towards helping/healing rather than banning? It seems to me that that would be the proper path for entities on an STO v. STS path. Anything else seems to be admitting powerlessness or defeat against that energy. My 2 cents...

[Chuck]

I've been away for a month... a lot of "stuff" happens... heheheh

Some very excellent posts here. Very insightful.

I would like to add a thought from my observations of all this from a perspective of one who has just completed a 1 month vacation.

There have been good people banned from Avalon. As a result, many have been hurt. This, of itself, speaks highly about Avalon. You see, when a sanctuary is created... a place where peculiar people with unconventional minds can come and share thoughts, ideas and information... the worse thing that could ever happen is to be banned from such a beloved sanctuary.

We all desire to be a part of something great. That is, we all desire to experience the outwardly manifestation (the explicit) of the greatness that lies within ourselves (the implicit). When a group of enlightened people get together, dynamic and wondrous things happen. To be banned from that is like ... a locked church during the dark night of the soul.

So I encourage the management of this forum to view themselves as guardian angels, with far sighted vision, challenging status quo, inspiring freedom yet nurturing personal responsibilities. A whisper with loving intonation to right a miscommunication might be all that is required.

Other sanctuaries are created; each have their unique and sublime energy. Avalon's is worth preserving.

[9eagle9]

From Paul: Moreover, beyond any reasonable doubt, there are a few lurking intentional disruptors amongst us, who work (wittingly or not) for some counter-intelligence agency or such dark force, and who intend to destroy us. So far as I know, we cannot identify who such are with absolute reliability, and so far as I know, our well being depends on continuing to root them out, just as our bodies well being depends on continuing to kill cells that start to become cancerous.

Yeah there is . I have to repeat. These factions and those they influence operate in dependable and predictable ways and patterns of behavior. They are unable to operate any other way. You learn the pattern, you observe, and it blares right out at you.

[SEAM]

The so-called "Healing Process" will never really be completed, until you quit "Picking" the Scab....
I think Confucious said that... not sure....

[Dennis Leahy]

Maybe we could have a look at the big picture. The HUGE picture that is humanity. NONE of the ins and outs of this will matter in a few years time.

The results of this will matter. To my mind, how the problems of humanity are resolved (or not) will quite simply be a reflection of how this problem is resolved. If a group of highly intelligent and awakened individuals cannot get past this, what are the chances of survival for humanity? Seriously!

I'm gonna throw a word into the mix. When I feel p'd off I use it as a mantra. COMPASSION.

com·pas·sion (km-pshn)
n.
Deep awareness of the suffering of another coupled with the wish to relieve it.

Compassion for all no matter what.

Hi An Cailleach, and thanks for your warm, uplifting message.

Compassion is key. Really, for any being attempting to aim in a positive direction, it is *thee* key.

The problems of humanity.
The problems of Avalon, (a gathering spot for a tiny subset of humanity.)
The problems of individuals.

If Project Avalon is to flourish as a gathering spot to expose, discuss, and work on solutions for the problems facing humanity, then it may not be wise to subdivide the energies of the membership and focus toward the problems of a dozen individuals that constantly divert the group energy away from even discussing the problems of humanity and work toward possible solutions. There are some individuals that simply do not understand that there is a 'big picture' being addressed (the problems of humanity), and others that may be aware but simply do not care (sociopaths and 'agents', for example.) The needs/desires/demands of the selfish individuals are not worth diluting the energy of Project Avalon, and taking the positive energy away from the main focus (the problems of humanity.)

Project Avalon is a forum open (almost entirely) to guests. Anyone can read, anyone can learn, anyone can grow. Posting privileges are reserved for those who will indeed minimize their own individual needs in order to foster an environment of exposing, discussing, and working on solutions for the problems facing humanity. No disrespect or malice intended to the individuals that simply are not part of the team trying to expose, discuss, and work on solutions for the problems facing humanity - but it subverts the mission of Project Avalon to allow them to steal our precious resource of time.

Dennis

[edina]

Hi everyone, I was rushing out the door to go milk my goats, I had genuinely misunderstood what I read here, since things do appear to be ban-happy lately.

When I posted it, I realised I had misunderstood the post I was commenting to and did a quick update with the apology.

I wanted to do a more thorough apology and explanation for my comments, now that I am back from the morning chores.

I misunderstood what I read, and thought that Emma was banned, I wasn't sure which is why I asked the question.

I'm not so sure I did any mud-slinging. Those are indeed Bill's own words, they were the first ones I thought of when I was thinking about the issue of how people unintentionally name call. I am sure the people who did receive those words felt hurt. And I am equally sure that Bill thought he was correcting behavior.

And indeed, I did flinch inside at the time I read those words, wehn Bill originally wrote them. I remember one was to Bashi.

I probably flinched even more so because they came from Bill, and I felt the shame and humiliation those words inflicted on the people at the receiving end of them. This is probably why I thought of them first.

Others do it, and many have continued to do this without the issue being addressed since the new, ...????? forum guidelines for behavior have been sort of sprung on us, so to speak.

This is Bill's forum. He has just banned three people with a explanation about the need for integrity in our behavior.

His definition here:

"The best definition of integrity I ever heard is when one's beliefs, actions and statements are all in alignment.

With integrity, there is no two-facedness, no camouflaged position, no variance of view depending on the circumstances or who one is with."

To me a part of this is holding yourself to the same standard you hold other people.

This applies also to who and how we choose to be understanding, patient and compassionate toward.

For better, or for worse, Bill Ryan's words carry the weight of his personal power, and this amplifies the affect of his words, for good, and for worse.

The whole issue of the Magna Carta OP is an issue that is reflected in our larger world.

Again, we will want to continue to examine the underlying dynamics about how we deal with people who assume power, that we give power to, that misuse their personal power, and how we can work together, harmoniously to empower ourselves, and if we choose, help empower each other.

Very soon in our collective future SOC, Self Organising Communities will be springing up, the present events already unfolding are already leading to this spontaneous activity.

The more we consider the dynamics of how we deal with our personal power, the better prepared we will become in ensuring that we can do something, to prevent a slide into feudalism.

This is one of the primary reasons why I am so intent is staying engaged in this particular issue within this forum.





If this is true, that Emma was banned for the above statements, then perhaps Bill Ryan should be banned too.

The first three comments and examples I presented of name calling were made from Bill Ryan.

At least one of them were in his comments in the recently closed Integrity Thread.

This emphasises my increasing concern of an apparent double standard being applied here in the Avalon forum in a way that may, or may not be arbitrary, may, or may not be intentional and seems to favor some people over others.

If we can extend the benefit of a doubt and understanding to Bill Ryan, that he probably did not intend to resort to the negative frequency tactic of name calling, I would hope we could do the same with Emma.

Just something to consider....Emma hasn't been banned, jumping to conclusions and slinging more mud at Bill isn't going to help anything.

[edina]

But threats no. There can be no threats. Threats instill fear, they produce nothing .
I do not smack my three year old son because it is a weak gesture, we smack children because we can. Because in the impulse of the moment it is an immediate gesture that says more about the adult than the child. Help your child to understand why . Help them to learn not to be afraid of the threat of a hiding.

If I am at a large meeting, sitting in an audience of hundreds or thousands of people, listening to a speaker or perhaps a group panel discussion or perhaps to individuals, taking the microphone one at a time to pose questions, answers and comments, ... and if I have brought my young child with me and that child starts to scream and make loud, incessant noises, then I step outside the meeting with my child. If my child routinely behaves this way in such a venue, or if the child shows strong intention to do so, with no apparent learning how to behave in such venues, I cease bringing them there in the first place.

One has a responsibility to raise one's child well. One also has a responsibility to one's society to be well behaved (for some definition thereof) and to watch out for the well being of others.

We all have seen flame wars ruin good threads on this and other forums. It is a common occurrence. A few people get in a hot interaction, each convinced that one or more of the others is wrong and needs to be corrected and perhaps driven away, "for the good of the discussion and so that less aware participants will not be harmed or fooled."

Threads are destroyed this way. Most participants shake their head and wander off, no longer able to find whatever useful insights they had hoped might be in that discussion, for such is buried in the muck of disruptive dissent.

Part of the job of the admins/mods is to keep that from happening, and to minimize the disruption when it does. Sometimes this means escorting someone out of the hall, for that is the best we know to do, in the here and now, with our limited talents and energies.

Moreover, beyond any reasonable doubt, there are a few lurking intentional disruptors amongst us, who work (wittingly or not) for some counter-intelligence agency or such dark force, and who intend to destroy us. So far as I know, we cannot identify who such are with absolute reliability, and so far as I know, our well being depends on continuing to root them out, just as our bodies well being depends on continuing to kill cells that start to become cancerous.

For this reason, or perhaps other similar reasons, destructive energy is flowing into to this forum (intentionally destructive.) We need to turn that flow off, which sometimes means removing the members through whom that energy is flowing (whether they understand and agree, or not.)

Thank you for this Paul,

This allows me to open up another concern that I have seen that I have never known how to address, and this is the use of caustic, or acidic sarcasm.

I think it is often meant as a means to blow off steam, or excess energy related to certain felt tensions. However, it seems to me that this is another area whereby many misunderstandings develop, and people often inadvertantly say hurtful, or perhaps demeaning things.

It is actually uncomfortable for me to read those types of comments. However, I may simply be too sensitive to people's emotional pain and this may not be much of a concern for most people. There is also HUGE, cultural differences in all of this.

What are other peoples thoughts on this?

[Amer]

One has a responsibility to raise one's child well.

However Paul you are not raising children here, though with respect I shall venture to say that some are being treated as so. We are adults in dialogue, hitting of one another, being amazed by one another, learning, hurting, contributing, reading, writing, expressing opinions, changing opinions and on and on. And even sometimes shouting and getting too passionate.
By virtue of our adulthood and may I proudly say of many here ( and I honour you ) the intelligence of this community, we should be allowed to monitor ourselves to a greater degree. It is of course your jobs to come in when the situation is indeed in a deteriorating state, but since joining I have seen very very few cases of this.
We do not and cannot exist in a sterile state, by virtue of our complexities, our cultural and gender differences, our up-bringing and situational differences there must be a level of tolerance to see a situation through, to give due respect to individuals that they can work out their differences themselves. We learn this way- you rap me on the knuckles and I will get my back up, you engage me in meaningful debate, challenge me and I will be enriched. I have seen exchanges between individuals where I have been amazed at the tolerance and patience to bring that person around and I have learnt from it. It makes me want to aspire to this level of engagement. If someone had come in and cut off that dialogue the lesson would have been lost.
What I believe is that in the exchange between Emma and Arpheus- it was so obvious that they would have worked out their differences themselves and been better off for it. And us too as a consequence. This is how we learn. Give us the benefit of the doubt. Please I ask you sincerely do not treat us like children.
If we want to raise the vibrations, if we want to attain a higher consciousness- that is a process that is attained through a model of love and gentle prodding. It is my heartfelt belief that banning people and threatening to remove their posts do not create a healthy atmosphere for the impartment and sharing of opinions- oftentimes diverse.
Amer.

[9eagle9]

Me Li Tau Yoo.

The art of insulting another without the other being aware of it.

Not an option?

[Isostool]

One has a responsibility to raise one's child well.

However Paul you are not raising children here, though with respect I shall venture to say that some are being treated as so. We are adults in dialogue, hitting of one another, being amazed by one another, learning, hurting, contributing, reading, writing, expressing opinions, changing opinions and on and on. And even sometimes shouting and getting too passionate.
By virtue of our adulthood and may I proudly say of many here ( and I honour you ) the intelligence of this community, we should be allowed to monitor ourselves to a greater degree. It is of course your jobs to come in when the situation is indeed in a deteriorating state, but since joining I have seen very very few cases of this.
We do not and cannot exist in a sterile state, by virtue of our complexities, our cultural and gender differences, our up-bringing and situational differences there must be a level of tolerance to see a situation through, to give due respect to individuals that they can work out their differences themselves. We learn this way- you rap me on the knuckles and I will get my back up, you engage me in meaningful debate, challenge me and I will be enriched. I have seen exchanges between individuals where I have been amazed at the tolerance and patience to bring that person around and I have learnt from it. It makes me want to aspire to this level of engagement. If someone had come in and cut off that dialogue the lesson would have been lost.
What I believe is that in the exchange between Emma and Arpheus- it was so obvious that they would have worked out their differences themselves and been better off for it. And us too as a consequence. This is how we learn. Give us the benefit of the doubt. Please I ask you sincerely do not treat us like children.
If we want to raise the vibrations, if we want to attain a higher consciousness- that is a process that is attained through a model of love and gentle prodding. It is my heartfelt belief that banning people and threatening to remove their posts do not create a healthy atmosphere for the impartment and sharing of opinions- oftentimes diverse.
Amer.

Way good post Amer....

And we are adults spiritually too.

[edina]

If we want to raise the vibrations, if we want to attain a higher consciousness- that is a process that is attained through a model of love and gentle prodding. It is my heartfelt belief that banning people and threatening to remove their posts do not create a healthy atmosphere for the impartment and sharing of opinions- oftentimes diverse.
Amer.[/QUOTE]

Thank you Amer

This statement reminds me of the Sudbury Valley School Model. (http://www.sudval.org/) This is the model of education I will be using in the SOC community that emerges in my area.

If anyone is interested in how true democracy could work, take at look at this school. It is inspirational!!!!

If 4 years can get it, I am confident that the enlightened adults of the alternative communities can get it, too.

http://youtu.be/awOAmTaZ4XI

The Sudbury Valley School, The School For A World Transformed

[Chicodoodoo]

Come on guys, how can we possibly have banned members posting even in a dedicated area, what’s the point of banning them in the first place.

The emphasis in the above quote is mine.

The point of banning Avalon members is to silence them.

The very spirit of Project Camelot and Project Avalon is exactly the opposite -- to give voice to those that are being silenced. Whistle-blowers have been the bread and butter of Camelot and Avalon. It's what attracted many of us here. We want to hear the censored voices. How else can we uncover the truth?

So it is no surprise that some of us are deeply bothered when witnessing a disturbing trend at Project Avalon to silence its own members. Avalon is suffering from a damaging cognitive dissonance (holding two contrary views simultaneously).

Yes, we need to post respectfully, as if we were writing to ourselves in a loving and caring manner, or barring that, at least in a neutral manner. Yes, we are emotional human beings, all of us, with feelings that can influence our behavior in the heat of the moment. To balance this, we need patience, empathy, compassion, and to provide even further balance, dispassionate analytical reasoning. None of us are blessed with an adequate supply of these attributes in the balanced proportions of a true sage. We are flawed, all of us.

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

How can banning be a proper solution at Project Avalon?

[Carmody]

Too many people in this thread are failing to remember that they are literally in the middle of an actual WAR.


Their side is hidden, ours is open.

Due to our side being open, we have to handle things in specific ways.

Theirs is hidden as public knowledge of the existence, or conformation, etc... is what will bring them down. All their actions must remain hidden, otherwise they will be defeated. All their efforts must remain clandestine.

It becomes obvious to me that too many people in this thread are failing to understand and deal with the basics.

First and foremost, you are in the middle of an actual war.

Now, look again.

I'm not implying anything about anyone, nor am I saying anything about anyone.

It is a matter of conduct within the group.

You would do best to leave the ego and preconceived notions at home. Please. Thank you. :)

For example ~I WILL NOT~ explain to you my sum total position on anything important on an open form. Only in person, if ever such a thing were to take place.

[greybeard]

Carmody is correct

Spiritual teaching says there is only fear or love

The war is about control - love or fear.
The lower astral have control in this world.

Im not of any religion
Jesus was tempted by the Devil he was offered power over the world which he refused

The lower astral feeds on the energy of fear. It fears a raising of consciousnes more than anything.
We starve them of fear they lose the war.

We choose forgiveness, understanding, love of fellow man they lose
.
Jesus said "Forgive them for they know not what they do"-- if he can forgive when nailed to the cross surely we can.

If we accept responsibility for our actions and promptly apologize when in error they loose.

Beren has a threads in the spiritual section which covers a lot on the subject.

We will win this war believe me

Chris

[Carmody]

Ultimate outcomes:

You (we, us, etc) are working toward removing the genetic disposition connected to sociopath behavior -- from the human genome. IMO.... this is very likely the final result that would 'be' in this case.

Ie, for the greater part...this means the larger genetic groupings that the elite is based upon.



Think about the level of energies allied against you. Think it through.

This is a 'mundane' and/or purely physical level analysis... but it is ultimately a truth on that given level.

[edina]

I think an important point here that I am getting from Carmody is how important it is to keep ourselves in utmost integrity with our highest priniciples especially our conduct within a group. It is about the unified group soul....

How we handle our selves, vibrationally, does indeed have an affect on how events may play out.

When we are gathered in like mind, speaking and sharing our knowing in compassion and wisdom, opening our hearts to the highest potential in ourself and others this draws out the higher creative energies.

Likewise, when we gather together in a manner that devalues and depreciates each other, a very different sort of energy is drawn into our affairs.

The significance of the Magna Carta gave the common man a voice, it appreciated the value of humanity as a whole, this in and of itself helped set the conditions for much improved lives for people.

Again, It may be important to remember, every one here is equal, no one is more than the other, and no one is less than the other.

A great compassion exercise I use from time to time goes something like this...."Just like me----------- fill in the blank, and describe what you are experiencing only with the other person's name or what another person is experiencing with your name. Allow yourself to imagine what events may feel like from another person's perspective, become present to people around you.

This helps to build bridges of loving connections, bonds, in the spaces between us, which will allow us to walk this journey together in mutual trust, mutual respect, mutual love, mutually expressed soulutions that is inclusive for the highest potential for ALL LIFE.

I do genuinely believe that we are unique expressions of One Humanity/Planetary Being, and when we live from our True Self, our highest potential future emerges in our Reality.

Please keep this in mind and heart in the days to come.

Sometimes apologies and forgiveness, the applications of grace, and graciousness may be our finest tools in rising our frequencies to levels higher than the forces that try to imprison us.

Coming clean with everything in a loving environment has an cleansing uplifting affect. Perhaps, this is why it is said that confession is good for the soul.

And compassion in response to confession, strengthens the spirit of all involved.

Chris check for me, is grace the highest frequency in the Hawkins Maps of Consciousness?

[greybeard]

edina
On the map of consciousness
Just short of enlightenment is ---unconditional love

Regards Chris

The levels of consciousness just give a guide to where you are and what you need to work on.

The levels are different, not one better than the other, they just show, like a map where you are on your journey home and the next step on your journey to enlightenment

All souls are equal

Chris

[edina]

Thanks, Chris, grace is unconditional love in action, it smooths the rough edges between people, like a lubricant for the soul.

[Arpheus]

Emma i would like to offer you my most sincere and deepest apologies it seems obvious that it was all a misunderstanding between us and i am human enough to know when i went overboard and stepped out of line for that i am sorry and like carmody and greybeard keep reminding us we all have egos here and things like this happen almost on a daily basis,but i have the eyes to see and ears to hear!
Peace to all
Vini

[Chicodoodoo]

You (we, us, etc) are working toward removing the genetic disposition connected to sociopath behavior -- from the human genome. IMO.

Icecold will cry "witch hunt" when he sees that quote, if I know him.

On the world stage, I would argue that we are working toward removing the rampant domination and expression of the destructive (to the common good) character traits typically found in sociopaths. I say that because the distribution of the genetic disposition of these traits is probably a bell curve, which means they are present in much of the population to varying degrees. It's just that a tiny minority that are the most successful sociopaths (conniving, deceptive, secretive, irresponsible, shameless, criminal) are running the entire world without us being aware of it, to the detriment of most of us.

On the Avalon stage, I would argue that we are working toward removing the rampant domination and expression of the destructive (to the common good) character traits typically found in the well-meaning censor. The distribution of the disposition to censor is probably a bell curve, which means it is present in much of the population to varying degrees. It's just that a tiny minority that are the most successful .... Umm, maybe I had best not continue with this example.

I can't figure out which is the more challenging problem to solve.

[Carmody]

Icecold can say whatever he wants. I've no idea what he will say.

If the impression is that I've said witchunt, then the impression that of the reader, not that which I wish to impart.

The result over time, will be the elimination of those genetic traits.

He has admitted that he tends to live through some, er, form of a slightly more provocative than 'average' form of communication. I personally don't mind his methods and ways, I can deal with it. But not all can.

I've seen him support both sides of a given argument in a thread and then add his own fuel to the given fire. No problem for me, I'm past most of the emotional involvement in the given subjects. However, many others are not, and cannot -operate in that mode.

It's not about sawing off the peaks or the extremes...to satisfy a lowest common denominator...but how a social norm (be it unspoken or otherwise) must exist in a social and communication/effort/work environment.

Otherwise you've got a few outstanding personalities skewing the whole darned thing for no good reason. Then the whole dang thing goes right off the rails.


If I stray too far from the norm in my communication, expression and methodology, etc...I will be sawed off.

Basically you find the problem source with regard to spending your productive time in repairing personal or political/heated/ etc situations. And you eliminate the overt workload source.

Humans have linear time and short lives. This means we can't, in this skin, spend our 'lives' fixing everyone's specific individual issues ...until the end of time. In other places, it seems we DO have a tremendous amount of time, so those yakity yak social extremis sessions can take place, and maybe they might resolve something....some day.

I had to educate my business partner on the reasons why you fire people. Not because you are an evil or self centered person, but because that given person to be fired, is dragging down everyone else, they are killing your company - and threatening your family's life and future. I had to explain to him that elimination of that person from the workforce, was the best thing he could do for all concerned.

[ThePythonicCow]

It's just that a tiny minority that are the most successful Weird -- my ears were burning when I read this. Really weird.

[An Cailleach]

Emma i would like to offer you my most sincere and deepest apologies it seems obvious that it was all a misunderstanding between us and i am human enough to know when i went overboard and stepped out of line for that i am sorry and like carmody and greybeard keep reminding us we all have egos here and things like this happen almost on a daily basis,but i have the eyes to see and ears to hear!
Peace to all
Vini

Hey Vini

That's exactly the direction we all need to go in. Bravo!!

[edina]

Here's a thought to broaden the topic of discussion.

I began receiving intuitive information on this about 15 years.

Synarchy: The Politics of Universal Consciousness.

Unified Sovereigns of ALL THAT IS

Where every voice is equal in value.

What would be the way a community of unified sovereigns govern themselves?

How would they manage the flow of energy in such a community?

Would they share power?

How would this culture of share power, whereby every one takes personal response-ability for their Self?

Live in deep integrity with the highest potential of their Spirit?

Share them Selves with mutual radiant honor, courtesy, grace and dignity?

What would such a community feel like?

Would you want to live in such a community?

Imagine the possibilities....

[9eagle9]

Thanks for your honesty Edina. I think the senstivity thing is a major thing to address and I am Guilty as Charged. I often express myself flippantly, ironically, frivolously, irreverently, and I suppose I border on sarcasm in certain conditions usually when interacting with rigid or one track minds who aren't getting the obvious. People who keep prodding until they can get you to agree with them. I will sometimes say something irreverent to offset tension . Sometimes I do it to keep my distance from the content. I'm more often flippant. Most times I'm being playful but if people take themselves too seriously that goes over like a lead balloon.

Admittedly I don't express my self in a overly loving manner. I come off as aloof frequently and aloofness is part of my nature but I'm not cold. A lot of people think I am. The only thing I can say i if I didn't care I wouldn't be here. I think using emotionally passionate expressions is manipulative on one hand, especially with strangers, and it makes the needy and co dependent glom on to you when that wasn't my intention to troll for adherents. I'm always aware that I'm dealing with wounded people.

On the other hand....

When it comes to 'sensitive' that's a hard line to walk and sometimes walking it a method to madness. And yes I get fashed because I had to spend decades getting my own empathy under control so I wasn't a blithering mess around other people, and other people don't exert the same effort. There's a petty part of me that thinks that isn't fair. I realized at some point my picking up on every nuance of emotion, their processes, pain and abuse wasn't their fault.

I have NO idea what I'm going to trip trigger in people who are overly sensitive unless my own empathy radar is whirling around full time.

One sometimes suspects those overly passionate people who are trip triggered aren't so much sensitive as practicing some wound identification. It's a labrynth that dissuades free expression. I ride horses and the PETA faction are screaming at me. I eat meat and the vegetarians are wailing. I eat vegetables and the fruitarians are appalled. I plant a garden and the earth worshipers are bawling. I disturb a blade of grass and the green people are sobbing. They insist on a spiritual journey and you get a guilt trip. Then want to know why I'm so closed in and not forthcoming about myself. AAAAGH.

But conversely if some sensitive person who I'd normally be gnashing my teeth at is attacked by someone else, the claws come out. Such is the perversity of human nature. That's likely my own woundedness coming in there.

I just have to be myself and if other people are that sensitive I'm going to have to say its not something that I can fix. It depends on the person. I'll help people fix crippling empathy, but if they don't want help ....what do you do?

People taking tones in conversations that are unwarranted is a big problem. The emotional context of text is in the eye of the beholder unless is deliberately written to evoke an emotional reaction. That sort of manipulation is easy to spot.

So if one is sensitive to another's emotional pain beyond compassionate practice it may be there's some wound identification going on . That's as honest as I can be and I speak from professional evaluation not judgment. At one time or the other we've all identified with other peoples wounds.

But at the same time I do understand where someone is coming from that is sensitive.

My own sensitivities like people who talk too much and drone on and on, blabbering and blathering and unraveling at the tongue forever don't bother me online because I can't hear people. Or I can choose not to read their text. Vocalization gets me. My clairaudient little ear hears every iota of energy in every syllable and starts yet another internal voice that tells me their lyingconfusedneedyholdingmehostagevampiringdishonestselfabsorbed until every bit of life force has been sucked out of me and I bark at them to shut up. Because THOSE people aren't sensitive enough to understand they are sucking my life force from me. And they are just as bad as people who fall down writhing on the ground because you were a little sarcastic. So yes I can relate in a certain sense but on the other not so much so.



This allows me to open up another concern that I have seen that I have never known how to address, and this is the use of caustic, or acidic sarcasm.

I think it is often meant as a means to blow off steam, or excess energy related to certain felt tensions. However, it seems to me that this is another area whereby many misunderstandings develop, and people often inadvertantly say hurtful, or perhaps demeaning things.

It is actually uncomfortable for me to read those types of comments. However, I may simply be too sensitive to people's emotional pain and this may not be much of a concern for most people. There is also HUGE, cultural differences in all of this.

What are other peoples thoughts on this?

[Buchanan561]

Emma i would like to offer you my most sincere and deepest apologies it seems obvious that it was all a misunderstanding between us and i am human enough to know when i went overboard and stepped out of line for that i am sorry and like carmody and greybeard keep reminding us we all have egos here and things like this happen almost on a daily basis,but i have the eyes to see and ears to hear!
Peace to all
Vini


Vini, you also have mine as I also over reacted. Please don't worry or stress over this as it is now a non issue. Everything happens for a reason, and the misunderstanding was meant to be. . If Paul had not stepped in we would have worked it out by ourselves.

I had no business being on the forum after 36 hours without sleep. I not only can not write well under those conditions, I do not think too well either.

Please don't feel blame for this as you were not. WE were. And my apology is there for you. It is mine to make. I am the one that owe's you, not the other way around.

Please take care and continue to enjoy Avalon.
Emma

[greybeard]

Friction has its uses as without it the diamond would not shine
Vini and Emma are shining.

The first revealing of the magnificence of the diamond may require some hard polishing but the final polish is done with a soft cloth.

Will write more on the enlightenment thread in the spiritual section when it comes to me.

Now going to make Sots broth which requires intense heat/rapid boil to burn of impurities then simmer to bring out the full flavor when it has cooled some it is very palatable and healthy.

Regards Chris

.

[Lord Sidious]

Friction has its uses as without it the diamond would not shine
Vini and Emma are shining.

The first revealing of the magnificence of the diamond may require some hard polishing but the final polish is done with a soft cloth.

Will write more on the enlightenment thread in the spiritual section when it comes to me.

Now going to make Sots broth which requires intense heat/rapid boil to burn of impurities then simmer to bring out the full flavor when it has cooled some it is very palatable and healthy.

Regards Chris

.

You might be able to help me.
I love broth, but every time I go down to the local brothel and ask for some, they kick me out!
What am I doing wrong?

[ulli]

9eagle9
great, great post here, and it shows how much effort you put into walking the razorblade tight rope.....
I salute you....those people on TV have no clue about the real royalty on earth- their loss.


Admittedly I don't express my self in a overly loving manner. I come off as aloof frequently and aloofness is part of my nature but I'm not cold. A lot of people think I am. The only thing I can say i if I didn't care I wouldn't be here. I think using emotionally passionate expressions is manipulative on one hand, especially with strangers, and it makes the needy and co dependent glom on to you when that wasn't my intention to troll for adherents. I'm always aware that I'm dealing with wounded people.

[9eagle9]

Lol.

Shift your perception. Go to the local cat house and ask for a kitten.


You might be able to help me.
I love broth, but every time I go down to the local brothel and ask for some, they kick me out!
What am I doing wrong

[Lord Sidious]

Lol.

Shift your perception. Go to the local cat house and ask for a kitten.


You might be able to help me.
I love broth, but every time I go down to the local brothel and ask for some, they kick me out!
What am I doing wrong


I did that.
I went in and asked them if they had any little pussies as the big ones aren't as much fun.
They kicked me out!

[greybeard]

Lol.

Shift your perception. Go to the local cat house and ask for a kitten.


You might be able to help me.
I love broth, but every time I go down to the local brothel and ask for some, they kick me out!
What am I doing wrong


Try wearing a kilt in true Scottish fashion.

When I was young 16 a female friend said "Marriage is just legalized prostitution"

I could not agree then or now.

Been happily married and very happy third time around.

Anona-mouse lol

[Mr54]

Can I just take a moment to heartily congratulate everyone who has contributed to this thread. The way in which the debate has progressed in such a cordial, respectful and intelligent manor has been humbling. The issues debated here are in my opinion a reflection on a very small scale of what we see occurring on a much larger scale in the world right now. To see people so ready to listen to those with alternative view points, to absorb those views and to counter with such eloquence and honesty is truly inspiring. Thank you all very very much!

[andywight]

"Conduct must have a connection and it must have a straightforward hope that you are speaking in service, not to control. That's a fundamental definition of communication."-Yogi Bhajan.

[9eagle9]

Try wearing a kilt in true Scottish fashion.

Oooooooo… kilts are dicey business.

Call them the girdle of lost opportunity.

I’m at festival last summer idly chatting with a pirate, when this man stepped from the crowd like he was descending lord of the highlands, a girt fine lad decked in full regalia with a headful of hair like the shining sun. Built like on ox he was. His colors were lost in the breadth of his shoulders. And as he emerges from the crowd his eyes meet mine and my heart stops. Without pause, he heroically strides over and in a sweeping bow takes my hand, kisses it, kneels before me and peers up into my soul with his dark amber eyes. "My Lady, always at your service."

Never has the English language held so much gallantry and insinuation in so few words.

My Lady’s jaw drops. Eyes bulging from her head, the grip on her cup loosens and she promptly spills ail over his Lordship's Rob Roy boots. She returns his charming gesture by making a noise that is typically only expressed by love stuck cows in labor. ‘mmmmmaaaaaaaeeeeeeeeeeeeh?'

A long moment passes as the Lord waits for his Ladyship to stop dripping beer all over him and strangling on her own tongue. After a brief but titanic effort on her part ….alas …she fails.
So then he was gone, in a flourish of Blackwatch plaid.

And because of this episode I still sometimes glare into the mirror and hiss “I HATE you. Hateyouhateyouhateyou!"

But only about three times a week or so.

[Chicodoodoo]

It's just that a tiny minority that are the most successful Weird -- my ears were burning when I read this. Really weird.

It’s not a simple world we live in, even though it is painted as such.

I’ve often felt a bit torn for some of the Nazis tried at Nuremberg. There it was decided that those implementing the policies were just as guilty as the policy makers. Following orders was no excuse. What a horrible Catch-22 for a military man to be placed in, especially after the fact!

To make matters worse, we now know the seemingly righteous Americans were secretly saving many thousands of “useful” Nazis for themselves through Operation Paperclip. Little did we know that 60 years after the fact, the nation of “liberty and justice for all” would become a near mirror image of the most hated abomination of evil that ever existed, as viewed by many of those same seemingly righteous Americans. The results of that cognitive dissonance (condemning Nazis while secretly coveting them) six decades later is truly horrifying, to anyone with eyes that can see.

[K626]

The beauty of man is that he is capable of anything. What the heart wants the heart must have.

Peace

K

[TigerLilly]

9eagle9
This allows me to open up another concern that I have seen that I have never known how to address, and this is the use of caustic, or acidic sarcasm.

I think it is often meant as a means to blow off steam, or excess energy related to certain felt tensions. However, it seems to me that this is another area whereby many misunderstandings develop, and people often inadvertantly say hurtful, or perhaps demeaning things.

It is actually uncomfortable for me to read those types of comments. However, I may simply be too sensitive to people's emotional pain and this may not be much of a concern for most people. There is also HUGE, cultural differences in all of this.

What are other peoples thoughts on this?

Hi
As you say there are HUGE cultural differences here. The British use sarcasm all the time and as a result are relatively immune to it and amused by it. My children grew up in France and when they later spent time in the UK they were really shocked by the cruel sarcasm used.
Yes this does lead to misunderstandings and hurt, but the beauty of forums like this is that we are all learning and changing and trying to drop these bad habits.

You describe your style as "flippant, ironic, frivolous and irreverent", but I find it forceful, honest and direct. If we are sometimes over sensitive it is generally because of past experiences and hurts which maybe need to be reviewed and exposed.

Loved the kilt story! My ex always wore his kilt in "the true Scottish fashion", and wasn't always careful enough when he sat down!.

[DeDukshyn]

Attention Noxon, Andywight, Ross, et al:

I was over at Nexus exploring a few good threads and quite enjoying what was there - not entirely unlike here. Then I went to see how Goldenyears thread was making out. I am so glad I left my original post because that is exactly how I still feel. I have never seen so much bashing, assumption making, blatant lies, since reading comments from trolls on YouTube. And it is even getting far worse on that thread. It's not wound licking any more - it's immaturity (my opinion don't bash me).

I won't ever be going back there (changed my mind - see edit) while certain members still exist there. But if that does change, I fancy I may sign on there ...

Good luck with your mission Ross -- you have your work cut out for you. This is just my opinion so no bashing me please and thank you.

Edit: Will it ever stop? Like I said, besides a few members there who do not resonate with my beliefs, intentions, or ways of dealing with things (i'm being nice) I actually appreciated a lot of what was going on there. I will check back occasionally to see if things have calmed down as this is just my current observation.

[sandy]

Thanks for your honesty Edina. I think the senstivity thing is a major thing to address and I am Guilty as Charged. I often express myself flippantly, ironically, frivolously, irreverently, and I suppose I border on sarcasm in certain conditions usually when interacting with rigid or one track minds who aren't getting the obvious. People who keep prodding until they can get you to agree with them. I will sometimes say something irreverent to offset tension . Sometimes I do it to keep my distance from the content. I'm more often flippant. Most times I'm being playful but if people take themselves too seriously that goes over like a lead balloon.

Admittedly I don't express my self in a overly loving manner. I come off as aloof frequently and aloofness is part of my nature but I'm not cold. A lot of people think I am. The only thing I can say i if I didn't care I wouldn't be here. I think using emotionally passionate expressions is manipulative on one hand, especially with strangers, and it makes the needy and co dependent glom on to you when that wasn't my intention to troll for adherents. I'm always aware that I'm dealing with wounded people.

On the other hand....

When it comes to 'sensitive' that's a hard line to walk and sometimes walking it a method to madness. And yes I get fashed because I had to spend decades getting my own empathy under control so I wasn't a blithering mess around other people, and other people don't exert the same effort. There's a petty part of me that thinks that isn't fair. I realized at some point my picking up on every nuance of emotion, their processes, pain and abuse wasn't their fault.

I have NO idea what I'm going to trip trigger in people who are overly sensitive unless my own empathy radar is whirling around full time.

One sometimes suspects those overly passionate people who are trip triggered aren't so much sensitive as practicing some wound identification. It's a labrynth that dissuades free expression. I ride horses and the PETA faction are screaming at me. I eat meat and the vegetarians are wailing. I eat vegetables and the fruitarians are appalled. I plant a garden and the earth worshipers are bawling. I disturb a blade of grass and the green people are sobbing. They insist on a spiritual journey and you get a guilt trip. Then want to know why I'm so closed in and not forthcoming about myself. AAAAGH.

But conversely if some sensitive person who I'd normally be gnashing my teeth at is attacked by someone else, the claws come out. Such is the perversity of human nature. That's likely my own woundedness coming in there.

I just have to be myself and if other people are that sensitive I'm going to have to say its not something that I can fix. It depends on the person. I'll help people fix crippling empathy, but if they don't want help ....what do you do?

People taking tones in conversations that are unwarranted is a big problem. The emotional context of text is in the eye of the beholder unless is deliberately written to evoke an emotional reaction. That sort of manipulation is easy to spot.

So if one is sensitive to another's emotional pain beyond compassionate practice it may be there's some wound identification going on . That's as honest as I can be and I speak from professional evaluation not judgment. At one time or the other we've all identified with other peoples wounds.

But at the same time I do understand where someone is coming from that is sensitive.

My own sensitivities like people who talk too much and drone on and on, blabbering and blathering and unraveling at the tongue forever don't bother me online because I can't hear people. Or I can choose not to read their text. Vocalization gets me. My clairaudient little ear hears every iota of energy in every syllable and starts yet another internal voice that tells me their lyingconfusedneedyholdingmehostagevampiringdishonestselfabsorbed until every bit of life force has been sucked out of me and I bark at them to shut up. Because THOSE people aren't sensitive enough to understand they are sucking my life force from me. And they are just as bad as people who fall down writhing on the ground because you were a little sarcastic. So yes I can relate in a certain sense but on the other not so much so.



This allows me to open up another concern that I have seen that I have never known how to address, and this is the use of caustic, or acidic sarcasm.

I think it is often meant as a means to blow off steam, or excess energy related to certain felt tensions. However, it seems to me that this is another area whereby many misunderstandings develop, and people often inadvertantly say hurtful, or perhaps demeaning things.

It is actually uncomfortable for me to read those types of comments. However, I may simply be too sensitive to people's emotional pain and this may not be much of a concern for most people. There is also HUGE, cultural differences in all of this.

What are other peoples thoughts on this?

9eagle9>>My thoughts on caustic or acidic sarcasm,

I'm guilty of such some times when i haven't taken the time to self investigate where it was coming from and or I know and have chosen to take a STS short approach to respond versus try and understand the other or stand in their shoes. Albeit I sometimes also use these communication tactics to smack someone enough to hopefully create a response to engage a more in-depth discussion.

One can also be trained to communicate this way>>>>my family upbringing of how one might raise their self esteem :( (smarter/better than you) and or to make a point but if called on it >>>one then says my, my, aren't we a bit touchy>>> Always have an escape route: I was only kidding, teasing, or trying to get a rise out of you........and on and on.

In the end I believe they are statements of self-disclosure in some way trying to be heard and or communicate but most often can be hurtful, demeaning and hurt the process in the end more than help it. So that's my thoughts for what they are worth:)

[sandy]

Lol.

Shift your perception. Go to the local cat house and ask for a kitten.


You might be able to help me.
I love broth, but every time I go down to the local brothel and ask for some, they kick me out!
What am I doing wrong


I did that.
I went in and asked them if they had any little pussies as the big ones aren't as much fun.
They kicked me out!


STOP IT Lord Sidious and 9eagle :roll: LMAO and I can't breath!!

[DeDukshyn]

Lol.

Shift your perception. Go to the local cat house and ask for a kitten.


You might be able to help me.
I love broth, but every time I go down to the local brothel and ask for some, they kick me out!
What am I doing wrong


I did that.
I went in and asked them if they had any little pussies as the big ones aren't as much fun.
They kicked me out!


STOP IT Lord Sidious and 9eagle :roll: LMAO and I can't breath!!

I agree, you guys are freaking hilarious!

[Buchanan561]

Friction has its uses as without it the diamond would not shine
Vini and Emma are shining.

The first revealing of the magnificence of the diamond may require some hard polishing but the final polish is done with a soft cloth.

Will write more on the enlightenment thread in the spiritual section when it comes to me.

Now going to make Sots broth which requires intense heat/rapid boil to burn of impurities then simmer to bring out the full flavor when it has cooled some it is very palatable and healthy.

Regards Chris

.

You might be able to help me.
I love broth, but every time I go down to the local brothel and ask for some, they kick me out!
What am I doing wrong?

The same thing they did to me for doing it wrong. (smile) :argue:

[Dennis Leahy]

Try wearing a kilt in true Scottish fashion.

Oooooooo… kilts are dicey business.

Call them the girdle of lost opportunity.

I’m at festival last summer idly chatting with a pirate, when this man stepped from the crowd like he was descending lord of the highlands, a girt fine lad decked in full regalia with a headful of hair like the shining sun. Built like on ox he was. His colors were lost in the breadth of his shoulders. And as he emerges from the crowd his eyes meet mine and my heart stops. Without pause, he heroically strides over and in a sweeping bow takes my hand, kisses it, kneels before me and peers up into my soul with his dark amber eyes. "My Lady, always at your service."

Never has the English language held so much gallantry and insinuation in so few words.

My Lady’s jaw drops. Eyes bulging from her head, the grip on her cup loosens and she promptly spills ail over his Lordship's Rob Roy boots. She returns his charming gesture by making a noise that is typically only expressed by love stuck cows in labor. ‘mmmmmaaaaaaaeeeeeeeeeeeeh?'

A long moment passes as the Lord waits for his Ladyship to stop dripping beer all over him and strangling on her own tongue. After a brief but titanic effort on her part ….alas …she fails.
So then he was gone, in a flourish of Blackwatch plaid.

And because of this episode I still sometimes glare into the mirror and hiss “I HATE you. Hateyouhateyouhateyou!"

But only about three times a week or so.

9eagle9, I have to say, I hope to meet you in person some day. Passionate, compassionate, and highly articulate, and your humor is as keen and sharp as the very best of the wise and thought-provoking comedians (like Carlin.) Thanks so much for sharing your self with us!
Dennis

[Buchanan561]

Attention Noxon, Andywight, Ross, et al:

I was over at Nexus exploring a few good threads and quite enjoying what was there - not entirely unlike here. Then I went to see how Goldenyears thread was making out. I am so glad I left my original post because that is exactly how I still feel. I have never seen so much bashing, assumption making, blatant lies, since reading comments from trolls on YouTube. And it is even getting far worse on that thread. It's not wound licking any more - it's immaturity (my opinion don't bash me).

I won't ever be going back there (changed my mind - see edit) while certain members still exist there. But if that does change, I fancy I may sign on there ...

Good luck with your mission Ross -- you have your work cut out for you. This is just my opinion so no bashing me please and thank you.

Edit: Will it ever stop? Like I said, besides a few members there who do not resonate with my beliefs, intentions, or ways of dealing with things (i'm being nice) I actually appreciated a lot of what was going on there. I will check back occasionally to see if things have calmed down as this is just my current observation.

What you see is a range of growth among its members. It is not an overnight experience, it takes time. And each time one gets banged over the head for something it causes pain and one must back up, cry and lick their wounds. But we change our minds about everything as we go along. Nothing within us stays stagnant and unchanged. We go back and forth and within that realm change occurs. That incident with those being banned was not for naught. Everyting happens in this world of ours for a reason. That incident caused the making of that thread. I saw it begin even before golden years 'picked up her pen' and started to write. It has been very cathartic whether others felt resonance with it or not. Those who were grown in their understanding of others saw it as a great chance for growth for many, others who did not saw other negative things within it. It all depends on who we are inside and our ability to understand others. Perhaps we can call your post here very negative and unenlightened.? But I choose not to. I choose to see you still struggling with an ability to accept the cries of others and understand. But you will get there. I did. Emma

[DeDukshyn]

Attention Noxon, Andywight, Ross, et al:

I was over at Nexus exploring a few good threads and quite enjoying what was there - not entirely unlike here. Then I went to see how Goldenyears thread was making out. I am so glad I left my original post because that is exactly how I still feel. I have never seen so much bashing, assumption making, blatant lies, since reading comments from trolls on YouTube. And it is even getting far worse on that thread. It's not wound licking any more - it's immaturity (my opinion don't bash me).

I won't ever be going back there (changed my mind - see edit) while certain members still exist there. But if that does change, I fancy I may sign on there ...

Good luck with your mission Ross -- you have your work cut out for you. This is just my opinion so no bashing me please and thank you.

Edit: Will it ever stop? Like I said, besides a few members there who do not resonate with my beliefs, intentions, or ways of dealing with things (i'm being nice) I actually appreciated a lot of what was going on there. I will check back occasionally to see if things have calmed down as this is just my current observation.

What you see is a range of growth among its members. It is not an overnight experience, it takes time. And each time one gets banged over the head for something it causes pain and one must back up, cry and lick their wounds. But we change our minds about everything as we go along. Nothing within us stays stagnant and unchanged. We go back and forth and within that realm change occurs. That incident with those being banned was not for naught. Everyting happens in this world of ours for a reason. That incident caused the making of that thread. I saw it begin begun even before golden years 'picked up her pen' and started to write. It has been very cathartic whether others felt resonance with it or not. Those who were grown in their understanding of others saw it as a great chance for growth for many, others who did not saw other negative things within it. It all depends on who we are inside and our ability to understand others. Perhaps we can call your post here very negative and unenlightened.? But I choose not to. I choose to see you still struggling with an ability to accept the cries of others and understand. But you will get there. I did. Emma

I understand that, but there's a few members I saw who I don't think are in that category that are not doing what I would call healing, but I'll check back again at a later time and see how it's going. Thanks for the words.

Edit: I posted my previous post at Andy's specific request to go check it out and come back and write what I thought, so that is what I did.

[Buchanan561]

Attention Noxon, Andywight, Ross, et al:

I was over at Nexus exploring a few good threads and quite enjoying what was there - not entirely unlike here. Then I went to see how Goldenyears thread was making out. I am so glad I left my original post because that is exactly how I still feel. I have never seen so much bashing, assumption making, blatant lies, since reading comments from trolls on YouTube. And it is even getting far worse on that thread. It's not wound licking any more - it's immaturity (my opinion don't bash me).

I won't ever be going back there (changed my mind - see edit) while certain members still exist there. But if that does change, I fancy I may sign on there ...

Good luck with your mission Ross -- you have your work cut out for you. This is just my opinion so no bashing me please and thank you.

Edit: Will it ever stop? Like I said, besides a few members there who do not resonate with my beliefs, intentions, or ways of dealing with things (i'm being nice) I actually appreciated a lot of what was going on there. I will check back occasionally to see if things have calmed down as this is just my current observation.

What you see is a range of growth among its members. It is not an overnight experience, it takes time. And each time one gets banged over the head for something it causes pain and one must back up, cry and lick their wounds. But we change our minds about everything as we go along. Nothing within us stays stagnant and unchanged. We go back and forth and within that realm change occurs. That incident with those being banned was not for naught. Everything happens in this world of ours for a purpose and reason. That incident caused the making of that thread. I saw it begin even before golden years 'picked up her pen' and started to write. It has been very cathartic whether others felt resonance with it or not. Those who were grown in their understanding of others saw it as a great chance for growth for many, others who did not saw other negative things within it. It all depends on who we are inside and our ability to understand others. Perhaps we can call your post here very negative and unenlightened.? But I choose not to. I choose to see you still struggling with an ability to accept the cries of others and understand. But you will get there. I did. Emma

I understand that, but there's a few members I saw who I don't think are in that category that are not doing what I would call healing, but I'll check back again at a later time and see how it's going. Thanks for the words.

Edit: I posted my previous post at Andy's specific request to go check it out and come back and write what I thought, so that is what I did.

I noticed those things too. If they are my friends then I work with them off screen in private. I share my views with them but never try to force them upon them. They have to grow at their own speed. They have to be able to see, feel and understand where others are coming from before they can move up the ladder. But this cannot take place until the healing begins, and then still it will take time. The most help they can recieve for this inner journey is the understanding of others and an aceptance of their feelings. Sometimes that is hard to give if our own inner wounds from our past have not healed. We all suffer from that to some degree. Nothing is instant and or over night. I have friends who never understand anything I say to them and finds suspicion in every thing I say (or write) and counter with suspicion, questions and anger. Sometimes we have to walk away from them and let them resolve things on their own. I certainly have done that and just recently.

We see a lot of messages on these boards that say ...."love" & "light" to others and at times I do not believe they know just exactly what those words should mean. Universal love means..... I accept you just the way you are without judgment or condemnation. just the way you are.

LIght only means Knowledge and darkness tis just the absence of knowledge.

If we want to give them both then we give them.....total acceptance without condemnation. And Knowlege, is just information or even teaching. Mainly information. That is because mankind has been in the dark (without information) for eons of time. We need to practice those tenents. And we all fail at times. Even I.
My love to you sir. Emma