Can the human species win?

[Phoenix]

Let us all please speak our hearts here. All I ask is a display of honesty in your opinions.

As the days roll on, I am having a more difficult time truly believing that anything will change the current course of annihilation that we’re on. There is so much talk here at Avalon about “all we need to do is wake up our brothers and sisters,” which is valiant but I say, for real, what would that actually do?

Let’s pretend that tomorrow, 100% of the earth’s people (not including the global controllers) are awakened. Nobody watches the corporate owned media anymore; nobody eats the GMO food anymore, all wars cease, etc, etc. The global controllers would realize this, and they would immediately set off the world’s worst cataclysmic disaster to date and put the entire species into a terrifying fear state. Nobody would be able to get food, water or have access to electricity and the controllers would impose martial law, force people into concentration camps claimed to be for their own good and kill dissenters publicly and brutally so that others stay subservient. Finally, they’d install your chip or kill you if you deny it. Ladies and gentleman, at this point - its game over. All will be lost into the matrix.

I find it hard to believe that this outcome can be avoided without a removal of the global controllers themselves. Even if there is nobody to enforce martial law, the global controllers will still have all the resources…

(After deeper thought…)

But come to think of it, they really wouldn’t be able to deploy any weapons, wouldn’t come onto the streets and try and chip us themselves and they would really be rendered powerless without the foundation of the massive amount of people ‘under’ them… It would be a warzone - a manhunt to try and eradicate these guys from the planet; it’d probably last for years. But we could succeed…

(After even deeper thought…)

After these guys are gone, who’s to say that the human species won’t collectively make the same mistakes over again?

If you look at history, from the Roman Empire to today, not much has changed. People manipulate society to gain positions of power, then abuse their power to increase their vice grip on the society at large. Then it comes to a breaking point, the people revolt, and then the same things happen again and again with new evil in power… lather, rinse repeat. This leads us to the fundamental metaphysical human question that must be answered:

Is man generally good or evil?

If man is evil, we are hard-wired for failure for the rest of our existence. If not, it makes sense why there is so much emphasis on control and disinformation, possibly to suppress our true potential.

What do you think?

-Phoenix

[Nasu]

My personal opinion is that we are not hardwired to behave in either a good nor evil way, good and evil are subjective at best. For example would it be in the best interest of our planet to eradicate the human species? Clearly your answer depends on your perspective and understanding.

The theory of the life giving death assumes that to destroy one bad apple we give life to many other apples who would not have flourished without the death of the one "evil" apple. But we are not comparing apples with apples or oranges or even like for like, good and bad are solely a construct of our mind. My gut feeling is we are in a state of free will, we can choose to do right or wrong, I think also that we choose or determine if such choices are right or wrong, usually the winners choose, we call this history, but it is obviously not the full story, is it?

Irrespective of our understanding of "history" we will continue to repeat it until we can at the very least review it. The next word read on this planet for the most part will be the readers first word. Since Gutenberg and mass printing, we have educated less than 20% of our species to read. By this time-line it will be several more thousand years before we as a species can all simply read our collective history, never mind learn from it. Is that evil? Its not good, so does that make it bad?

I for one am a throwback to a more violent age. I would like my descendants to evolve away from where I am at. Yet here I stand for good or bad. Unfortunately I will continue making decisions based on less than all the facts, some of those decisions are therefore bound to be wrong or bad, does that make me evil, I will let you decide...N

[DevilPigeon]

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I think fundamentally that mankind is good, but misguided actions can appear to some to be evil. I don't believe anyone does what could be considered evil things purely for the sake of evil itself.

[White Phoenix]

Like Nasu said, I don't think humanity can be considered good or evil, those terms are dependent upon an individual's opinion of another person's actions and therefore completely relative. I think this comes back to the concept of "service to others" or "service to self". There's nothing wrong with a litlle service to self in my opinion, but things can start to become negative when service to self comes at another's expense.

Phoenix, in your example it starts with everybody "waking-up", but I would say that there are levels to this, starting with the first which David Icke has dubbed "the 5 sense conspiracy" level. The very "real" mind-games played upon us by those we give our power to. It's basically what Alex Jones is known for exposing. Then there's the "spiritual" level, and if nobody likes that word (I try to avoid it to be honest!) then just use "energetic" instead, and you're saying the same thing. That's at least level 3 of the game! Being awake here, things connect differently. Everything has a purpose for existing. Then by about level 7, it turns out that everything is one!

So harmony must be humanity's truest state of being, and from where I'm playing the game that sounds pretty good. Believe in a better way.

[Evelon]

There is no good and evil mate, that's just a point of view. That's what I think :)

[HolographicWonder]

If it is subjective what is good and evil, what about starting with love in an abssolute state, maybe some intense feeling of oneness, and then start moving away. To be seperated from this loving feeling not knowing why, could create a feeling of fear - this is unknown and it does not feel as nice as I am used to. From an intense feeling of fear, the further one is removed from love, maybe a feeling of hate could arise - why have I been removed from that nice safe and pleasant feeling of love? Why then this first initiate seperation? Is it evil to seperate anything from love? How do one examine love if it is the only that exist? What happens if one goes from intense hate, and then in a glimpse of clarity starts moving towards love once again? Moving towards oneness maybe creates empathy and some deep understanding of what love means? The more perspectives that is given on this universal plane of existence, the deeper understanding of the true self, the nature of reality. If we are indeed one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, the purpose, if one exists, could then very well be evolution - trying to understand one self? Can there be harmony without some kind of polarity or diversity? In my opinion there is no good and evil, there is only understanding of one true self. But the source has always been love. Therefore as long as love exists, there is hope, empathy, passion and all the other perspectives we need to turn this ship around - going for oneness! Hope it makes sense in some way, or else please elaborate me, it is kind of late here... :) Love to you all...

[mosquito]

This is THE question ?
I'm not going to answer the poll - good and evil are merely subjective judgments, if we take a look at history we can clearly see that those who set out to eradicate "evil" not only fail, they have an amazing knack for perpetuating MORE evil !!!
However, the question you raise in the thread is one that I daily ponder. My current journey bagan in the late 80s, seeing layer after layer peeled off the conspiracy, but I always believed (naiively) that humans want the truth and want to live in harmony. The years after 9/11 have changed my view radically. It seems to me that the majority of people DO NOT want to know the truth, they want to live in a nice little bubble of false security, to do as they're told and not have to make decisions or take risks. Even when the truth is dangled in front of their eyes, they don't see it. And I just don't get it, if Americans can tolerate daily loss of their hard-won, much vaunted freedoms, tolerate continual sexual assault at airports and STILL believe that it's for "their own good"; if the British can fill in a census form and willingly hand it, along with all their personal information, to an American government weapons company and STILL believe they have a benevolent, democratic government, then what the f**k IS going to make them wake up ? If they don't get it now, then they aren't going to get it when they're all confined to their homes, paralysed with fear of a non-existent "enemy", with any openly fascist government. I've actually met people who WANT a microchip implanted in their body - aaaaaaaaarrrrgh !!!!!!!!!!!!!! And I'm sorry to say I've now reached the stage where I no longer care about those people, if that's what they want - let them have it.
Believe me - I truly want to believe that all we have to do is unite in love, etc etc etc., but I don't think it's going to work. I DO believe that we can be true to ourselves and endeavour to live to our full potential, but the control system SEVERELY limits the extent to which we can do this.
So in answer - No, I don't believe we can win unless somehow we take an evolutionary fork, those who want to live as magnificent, limitless, free beings go down one path, while the rest go their own way. I am, however more than willing to have my mind changed, and I refuse to live without hope.
Power, freedom (REAL bloody freedom) and love to you all. Philip ;)

[Freeman]

Mentally speaking i think it s hard to tell because we don t have the Big Picture,it is how it is.And if there is an "enemy" the human species have to battle with,can we define it?

Heartly speaking i think it s possible to "win",because i think there is benevolent system that actually exist,ET one or human one and so there is a possibility to strike for this reality.
An my answer to your question is another question:

Can we be Human again?Can we access to our wholeness,our freedom,all our part that has been repress,"suppress" or event control use against us ?
I think the fact that you are here already answer this question.

Thank you All Avalonians
Namaste

[Lost Soul]

We are all from the Creator and therefore good. However, the Creator gives us choices and most choose poorly and take the easy route (evil) over the more difficult, righteous path back to the Creator.

If one looks at how we are "programmed" by our society, our parents, our schools and the media that "success" is wealth, power, fine clothes, material items, mixing in with right crowd. We strive to achieve it and even if one is rich and famous, are still unhappy. They lack something in life and will continue accumulating wealth, material goods, power. Success only brings temporary joy, but no lasting happiness. The problem is with the programming. It's not that our parents or teachers wish us unhappiness. They're simply ignorant of how to attain it.

True happiness is being one with the Creator. Sounds boring, but it's the best. Those who choose it and actually thread on the path to the Creator may elect to hop off the reincarnation treadmill. Not all who can hop off do and those who elect to remain behind do so out of compassion for they, like the Creator, want to help the unascended ascend.

Returning to the question, man is good but has been led astray. In going through these rites of purification (reincarnation), (s)he returns to the Creator.

[Wade Frazier]

Hi Phoenix:

Big subject, obviously. :)

Being awake or awakening, on a planet where most are asleep, can be interesting. I often find it agonizing, and I also had to eventually realize that most of the asleep like their state very much, thank you, and want to remain asleep. I am not sure that it should be anybody’s job to awaken people who want to stay asleep. I leave them to their slumbers. If somebody delivered something as epochal as free energy to their door, they might begin to wake up, but maybe not.

As far as the Global Controllers go, their power is directly derived from the slumbering masses. They are filling a vacuum created by abdicated sentience and refusal of responsibility. I think that that is part of the game being played here, that the asleep are being screwed by the very people that they gave their power away to, because they chose to be asleep. Also, anybody who draws breath on this planet is in some way responsible for the state of affairs. That is not to make anybody feel “guilty,” but to help realize that only the responsible can do something to change it. Nobody can solve somebody else’s problems. If we don’t own it, we can't change it. The Global Controllers and the sleeping masse are us. We are all a reflection of each other, as painful as that can be to admit it to ourselves.

If enough of us woke up, the Global Controllers would probably slink away. Not because they would say to themselves, “Mission accomplished,” (although their souls might say that, as might God), but because their games would no longer work. I am not saying they do not make life for people like me difficult at times, but if enough people really woke up (and only love can do that, really, because waking up has everything to do with an awakened heart), they would not be able to maintain control, which relies on secrecy, deception, and some impressive technological advantages.

I have stated it before: for the size of the herd, the shepherd’s task is surprisingly easy. There really aren’t that many Global Controllers, but very few people stray from the herd in a way that poses problems for the global agenda.

A lot more to say, but I have to go to bed.

Thanks for the question.

Best,

Wade

[Mike Gorman]

Huge topic Phoenix-I think you are on the money with the desire for Power being a driving force.
Each cycle of civilization is characterized by a ruling "Elite" that has clawed its way to the top of the human pile,
Good & Evil are highly relative absolutes-if you are on top, then what appears 'Good' is whatever keeps you and your tribe in control;
The good old 'Owners of the means of production' formula-The Will To Power, is perhaps the immutable Human, hard-wired element
that keeps ****ing up our attempts to create Just and Equatable civilizations? We do seem to have a bad track record.

[Shezbeth]

None of the above. ^_^

[Mad Hatter]

Very big question indeed so donning my devils advocate hat for a moment...


Is man generally good or evil?

Does this not beg the question is conciousness pure good or pure evil?

Any proof of that one way or the other or just a massively hacked subconcious meme happening here?

Is it possible to think without using a language and thus by default without definitions? Perhaps whomever said "Don't think, be" was pondering just that...

Having overstressed the two available functioning neurons Mad Hatter changes hats again. ;)

[Ammit]

This is such a massive question regarding good and evil. My experience has shown me both sides of the coin with people I have worked with and some I associate with. Yes, generally some people can be good but I think being cruel to others just comes so natural to most of them. I suppose it could be a 50 50 scenario.

I think it all depends on the situation for most, a quiet polite taxi driver pulls a gun, shoots his brother along with many other innocent people in his way. Video of opposite armies being hung and dismembered while being recorded by many. The greed we see on a daily basis and man`s natural need to beat to a pulp fellow men in situations of sport, mass music gigs and while just having fun. Why does this sort of thing happen??

When you consider that man will not need an army or government to incite violence towards fellow man as we are more then capable of doing it in every day life then the 50% towards evil, rises.

"Can the human species win?" Maybe one day, but we have to learn to live as one and be at peace with each other before we could make any sort of stand as a race, in any sort of battle....

Ammit

[Teakai]

Hi Phoenix - I say the human is dual. They have the capacity for good which comes from soul - or the capacity for evil which is the territory of ego which comes from the physical.

To change the reality of the world, we must change the frequency.

No point waking up to the tyrants if we just grab our pitchforks - it's just continuing the same old cycle of this present world timeline.
The waking up is to ourselves. Becoming conscious of ourselves as soul and acting from that perspective. That will then raise the frequency, thus creating a new reality.


That's the way I see it.
:)

[shijo]

It seems to me when people are awake their enviroment also awakens, when we manifest from the right place we can use both so called good and evil circumstance for our own and others benifit. Its great to have so much information from so many good sources here but the way we see the world is down to the state were in at any paticular time.Yes it is a spiritual battle thats going on inside us and takes a lot of work to manifest the positive .However when we do the work a paticular by product of it is our enviroment changes too for the better. I STILL HAVE EVERY CONFIDENCE IN US AS A SPECIES,and as individuals to pull through all the nonsence. If good and evil are the two sides of the same coin one functions as enlightenment and the other as darkness or delusion,cutting through the darkness is what matters to me and Avalon helps in this regard.

[GlassSteagallfan]

...To change the reality of the world, we must change the frequency.

No point waking up to the tyrants if we just grab our pitchforks - it's just continuing the same old cycle of this present world timeline.
The waking up is to ourselves. Becoming conscious of ourselves as soul and acting from that perspective. That will then raise the frequency, thus creating a new reality.


That's the way I see it. :)

Since the majority is still sleeping, I lean toward a "no" to the question. Apparently, (from what I read here), if we don't evolve together, we fall together.

Peace