View Full Version : Universal intelligence. Where do you stand?
http://www.universetoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/fractal_unparticle.thumbnail.jpg
Think for a lot of us on here, this is the ultimate mystery. The big one!
There are many ideas floating around on the fourm that might hook up to this and as many people as there are on here, there are probably just as many variations of ideas on this subject.
Most of us would agree that the universe itself has a kind of intelligence or field and that we are all connected to this and that through this we are all part of each other. That perhaps through us the universe itself is learning as we learn, that the feedback loop is mutually benificial. That is all well and good but let me propose something a little more taxing as I'm keen to see where the boundaries fall.
I propose the whole universe is a creation of our consciousness and it is due to this that we so easily understand its language and interpret its data, however complex the conjecture and phenomena. How else would we continue to apply laws to such randomness and such vastness?
How else would we discern such complexity if it were not our minds that created it?
Are we part of the 'something' that was here before the universe existed at all?
It cannot be just chance that lets us interpret and develop our understanding of the universe, because the knowledge to mean something we must already know how that 'something' works.
Thoughts?
K
rbevin
1st May 2011, 20:31
Some deep thinking there K
Would this include the conciousness of other life forms, from other planets from our galaxy and beyond ?
I read the thread with interest.
Think for a lot of us on here, this is the ultimate mystery. The big one!
There are many ideas floating around on the fourm that might hook up to this and as many people as there are on here, there are probably just as many variations of ideas on this subject.
Most of us would agree that the universe itself has a kind of intelligence or field and that we are all connected to this and that through this we are all part of each other. That perhaps through us the universe itself is learning as we learn, that the feedback loop is mutually benificial. That is all well and good but let me propose something a little more taxing as I'm keen to see where the boundaries fall.
I propose the whole universe is a creation of our consciousness and it is due to this that we so easily understand its language and interpret its data, however complex the conjecture and phenomena. How else would we continue to apply laws to such randomness and such vastness?
How else would we discern such complexity if it were not our minds that created it?
Are we part of the 'something' that was here before the universe existed at all?
It cannot be just chance that lets us interpret and develop our understanding of the universe, because the knowledge to mean something we must already know how that 'something' works.
Thoughts?
K
Eric J (Viking)
1st May 2011, 20:39
lol...the mind boglgles doesn't it!!
If our consciousness created all that is... then what created our consciousness? soooo we must be a part of 'something' before. surely!...but how, when, and where?
Dont think too hard 626...I do at times and my brain just gives up... :confused:
viking
Some deep thinking there K
Would this include the conciousness of other life forms, from other planets from our galaxy and beyond ?
I read the thread with interest.
Think for a lot of us on here, this is the ultimate mystery. The big one!
There are many ideas floating around on the fourm that might hook up to this and as many people as there are on here, there are probably just as many variations of ideas on this subject.
Most of us would agree that the universe itself has a kind of intelligence or field and that we are all connected to this and that through this we are all part of each other. That perhaps through us the universe itself is learning as we learn, that the feedback loop is mutually benificial. That is all well and good but let me propose something a little more taxing as I'm keen to see where the boundaries fall.
I propose the whole universe is a creation of our consciousness and it is due to this that we so easily understand its language and interpret its data, however complex the conjecture and phenomena. How else would we continue to apply laws to such randomness and such vastness?
How else would we discern such complexity if it were not our minds that created it?
Are we part of the 'something' that was here before the universe existed at all?
It cannot be just chance that lets us interpret and develop our understanding of the universe, because the knowledge to mean something we must already know how that 'something' works.
Thoughts?
K
If the propositon is correct then other lifeforms would see the universe in their own way would they not? This is where it gets tricky...:p
You know I anitcipated tbat as the first question. Well done.
love
K
lol...the mind boglgles doesn't it!!
If our consciousness created all that is... then what created our consciousness? soooo we must be a part of 'something' before. surely!...but how, when, and where?
Dont think too hard 626...I do at times and my brain just gives up... :confused:
viking
Kindergarten stuff surely? :couch2:
K
The One
1st May 2011, 21:12
http://www.docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B6CAKeyrHjaKMmQ5YjQ2YWMtNGJjYy00NGY4LTliZDMtNjE0NTM1N2RlN2Fl&hl=en&authkey=CKSGxvkJ
Check this out a bit of a long read
For me there are endless possabilities and endless answers my friend
lol...the mind boglgles doesn't it!!
If our consciousness created all that is... then what created our consciousness? soooo we must be a part of 'something' before. surely!...but how, when, and where?
Dont think too hard 626...I do at times and my brain just gives up... :confused:
viking
Kindergarten stuff surely? :couch2:
K
Not at all Kindergarten stuff - or only if you associate 'Kindergarten' with
radiant Children's eyes that are able to look through all veils into eternity and infinity.
...soooo we must be a part of 'something' before. surely!
Wouldn't 'Unity' be the 'something or 'somewhere' - this numinous which is undescribable, which is the other pole to duality / diversity....?
Great thoughts here, thank you K and all :)
Sepia
greybeard
1st May 2011, 22:02
Ultimate truth is
God/source is manifestation, formless. both and neither.
The mind is incapable of understanding that, you need to be in the state referred to as "no mind"
Ramana Maharishi said use the thorn to remove the thorn then throw both away
So the mind is use to remove the mind then dispensed with.
New thread ancient truth
Im glad you started it though K626
Science is now proving unified consciousness.
Regards Chris
ps We are eternal, timeless, not created and existed before universes were formed
We are not human we are spirit having a human experience
All souls are equal therefore the same consciousness that is the in dweller in "our" body is in ETs.
Chris
Ultimate truth is
God/source is manifestation, formless. both and neither.
The mind is incapable of understanding that, you need to be in the state referred to as "no mind"
Ramana Maharishi said use the thorn to remove the thorn then throw both away
So the mind is use to remove the mind then dispensed with.
New thread ancient truth
Im glad you started it though K626
Science is now proving unified consciousness.
Regards Chris
ps We are eternal, timeless, not created and existed before universes were formed
We are not human we are spirit having a human experience
All souls are equal therefore the same consciousness that is the in dweller in "our" body is in ETs.
Chris
I have a feeling that ET has a different consciousness, all different ET races might have actually. And for each of them the universe is unique and different to the way we see it.
What do you think Chris?
K
9eagle9
2nd May 2011, 17:58
Not so sure that consciousness and spirit are the same thing. So something else may very well have different consciousness than us while spiritually being quite the same as us. The consciousness assists with our perception of the world. Once we break down consciousness we start seeing the world differently, our perception changes.
Not so sure that consciousness and spirit are the same thing. So something else may very well have different consciousness than us while spiritually being quite the same as us. The consciousness assists with our perception of the world. Once we break down consciousness we start seeing the world differently, our perception changes.
Would you say spiriti is more of 'the whole' and consciousness more of the individual?
Peace
K
9eagle9
2nd May 2011, 19:03
Yes,I think that's an apt comparison.
Not so sure that consciousness and spirit are the same thing. So something else may very well have different consciousness than us while spiritually being quite the same as us. The consciousness assists with our perception of the world. Once we break down consciousness we start seeing the world differently, our perception changes.
Would you say spiriti is more of 'the whole' and consciousness more of the individual?
Peace
K
Isostool
2nd May 2011, 20:07
...........And so then we have a zero point located within each node (cpu) of an intelligence... in each singular being and in the populace (as an identity, an intelligence where this point is found). Then in nodes in increasing complexity from here: local system/galactic/galactic cluster/super galactic cluster etc. and also through each point as itself the centre of its own universe; all points uniting into multiverses -> omniverse.
zero point is the point from where it all comes from. And it is in the centre of all things [individually in identity and as 'all things']. It is the heart/body/mind ... the push from the past and the pull from the future of what has been and what may be and what must certainly be, in increasing certainty so that there must certainly be a certain thing which certainly occurs in order for all things to exist. This thing forms all things as of its certainty. And certainly it is held in the hands of that which can certainly hold it.
Zero point is not necessarily anchored in 'a' time, but helpfully so, if a being wishes to pass through it in their entirety as an identity. i.e. with nothing left behind. To travel in any time one must be able to travel in all time. To exist in any time one must be able to exist in all times. Zero point is an identity which = all time, relative but equitable. As good as, as far as our size is concerned, and through self similar embedding and cascading scalar acchord, it is as good as for all sizes which are. Indeed.
This point is the heart between the body of the past and the mind of the future... it is what created the now of all universal intelligence.. yes I agree that we do and did. Not as you in another identity than the one which is you right now as your body, necessarily. Not necessarily at all.
All arising at once, the body heart and mind of the omniverse, there is still the progression of time, however, containing the heart and mind in it as potential.. INEVITABLE potential, the inevitable point that is Man(universal; Manu), and the door of his birth; zero point. In matter. all that is intelligence is the arrangement of matter in increasing complexity.... concentrations of it are feedback loops of it being recursive through the centre point of all atoms of itself, which is the centre of all atoms and all identities that exist.
In enacting the mind in heart resonance with all body. No more shall anyone have to return for anything they left behind. And if you did. too bad.
Carmody
2nd May 2011, 20:15
Rothko - Crossing to Gandria (A Continual Search For Origins)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNtdgx2r-cY
...........And so then we have a zero point located within each node (cpu) of an intelligence... in each singular being and in the populace (as an identity, an intelligence where this point is found). Then in nodes in increasing complexity from here: local system/galactic/galactic cluster/super galactic cluster etc. and also through each point as itself the centre of its own universe; all points uniting into multiverses -> omniverse.
zero point is the point from where it all comes from. And it is in the centre of all things [individually in identity and as 'all things']. It is the heart/body/mind ... the push from the past and the pull from the future of what has been and what may be and what must certainly be, in increasing certainty so that there must certainly be a certain thing which certainly occurs in order for all things to exist. This thing forms all things as of its certainty. And certainly it is held in the hands of that which can certainly hold it.
Zero point is not necessarily anchored in 'a' time, but helpfully so, if a being wishes to pass through it in their entirety as an identity. i.e. with nothing left behind. To travel in any time one must be able to travel in all time. To exist in any time one must be able to exist in all times. Zero point is an identity which = all time, relative but equitable. As good as, as far as our size is concerned, and through self similar embedding and cascading scalar acchord, it is as good as for all sizes which are. Indeed.
This point is the heart between the body of the past and the mind of the future... it is what created the now of all universal intelligence.. yes I agree that we do and did. Not as you in another identity than the one which is you right now as your body, necessarily. Not necessarily at all.
All arising at once, the body heart and mind of the omniverse, there is still the progression of time, however, containing the heart and mind in it as potential.. INEVITABLE potential, the inevitable point that is Man(universal; Manu), and the door of his birth; zero point. In matter. all that is intelligence is the arrangement of matter in increasing complexity.... concentrations of it are feedback loops of it being recursive through the centre point of all atoms of itself, which is the centre of all atoms and all identities that exist.
In enacting the mind in heart resonance with all body. No more shall anyone have to return for anything they left behind. And if you did. too bad.
That is complex and excellent.
I particularly agree with the bit in bold. I think to exist at any point one must exist at all points.
...and a nice sting in the tail to boot. :couch2:
Time is only a kind radiation btw. It is a kind of fallout from our passing...Without points of collapse of the reality of that passing there would be no afterglow (radiation/time).
cheers
K
Carmody
2nd May 2011, 20:27
The third is a bridged reflection of the first. The second is the basis of differential as the first has none. Being in the now, in the totality of the third (which exists as a quanta across the dual or 2d first and second) inherently brings the 'first' (1st dimension) of the great 'ALL' -to you.
Gotta run (sitting in chair with coat on). More later, but I have to be sure I've got it exactly correct, first. (expression wise)
The third is a bridged reflection of the first. The second is the basis of differential as the first has none. Being in the now, in the totality of the third (which exists as a quanta across the dual or 2d first and second) inherently brings the 'first' (1st dimension) of the great 'ALL' -to you.
Gotta run (sitting in chair with coat on). More later, but I have to be sure I've got it exactly correct, first. (expression wise)
Look forward to your next post C.
cheers
K
RedeZra
2nd May 2011, 20:49
I believe the universe is a manifestation of universal intelligence
so I do not subscribe to the idea that humans made this universe and then forgot about it
maybe the dolphins dream this I'm not sure or perhaps the cats
it seems to me that the cat thinks itself the most important being in the world
perhaps the universal intelligence is the intelligence of God after all
Yepp that's the side of the fence where I fall ; )
greybeard
2nd May 2011, 20:49
Ultimate truth is
God/source is manifestation, formless. both and neither.
The mind is incapable of understanding that, you need to be in the state referred to as "no mind"
Ramana Maharishi said use the thorn to remove the thorn then throw both away
So the mind is use to remove the mind then dispensed with.
New thread ancient truth
Im glad you started it though K626
Science is now proving unified consciousness.
Regards Chris
ps We are eternal, timeless, not created and existed before universes were formed
We are not human we are spirit having a human experience
All souls are equal therefore the same consciousness that is the in dweller in "our" body is in ETs.
Chris
I have a feeling that ET has a different consciousness, all different ET races might have actually. And for each of them the universe is unique and different to the way we see it.
What do you think Chris?
K
Hi K
I think in terms of simple energy.
It is the same electricity that powers the toaster or the washing machine-- same voltage but bigger power consumption perhaps.
So assuming there is one creator and used the same energy for all then everything is formed by the same energy and is composed of atoms--- the energy is found in the space in the atoms.
So in that respect it does not matter whether its a table or a mountain a human or any other form, it the same consciousness contained in every atom.
The consciouness like electricity flows through all -- diffent functions but same life force --- Science = Energy = God
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFhlPdZ15Cs
elysian
2nd May 2011, 21:11
Nice :) Love to go deep.
I believe we are all focal points of this "intelligence/field/force".
With in it is infinite potential from which we manifest.
Nice :) Love to go deep.
I believe we are all focal points of this "intelligence/field/force".
With in it is infinite potential from which we manifest.
If we enact a change in it, does the change log from the first moment of existence or only from the moment we enact..?
K
I believe the universe is a manifestation of universal intelligence
so I do not subscribe to the idea that humans made this universe and then forgot about it
maybe the dolphins dream this I'm not sure or perhaps the cats
it seems to me that the cat thinks itself the most important being in the world
perhaps the universal intelligence is the intelligence of God after all
Yepp that's the side of the fence where I fall ; )
...and are we not all a part of the 'God'?
Peace
K
greybeard
2nd May 2011, 21:42
I believe the universe is a manifestation of universal intelligence
so I do not subscribe to the idea that humans made this universe and then forgot about it
maybe the dolphins dream this I'm not sure or perhaps the cats
it seems to me that the cat thinks itself the most important being in the world
perhaps the universal intelligence is the intelligence of God after all
Yepp that's the side of the fence where I fall ; )
...and are we not all a part of the 'God'?
Peace
K
God became all of us--we did not become God
The wave can say it is part of the Divine Ocean but can not say it is the Ocean-- the Ocean can say it is every wave
Thats as simple as I can put it
Im with RedeZra
Chris
I believe the universe is a manifestation of universal intelligence
so I do not subscribe to the idea that humans made this universe and then forgot about it
maybe the dolphins dream this I'm not sure or perhaps the cats
it seems to me that the cat thinks itself the most important being in the world
perhaps the universal intelligence is the intelligence of God after all
Yepp that's the side of the fence where I fall ; )
...and are we not all a part of the 'God'?
Peace
K
God became all of us--we did not become God
The wave can say it is part of the Divine Ocean but can not say it is the Ocean-- the Ocean can say it is every wave
Thats as simple as I can put it
Im with RedeZra
Chris
Agree with the first and second bit, but not sure where you differ from me on this?
K
*Probably missing the simple bits as usual. :p
¤=[Post Update]=¤
Ok, god became all of us. But if we don't look back he don't exist.
K
elysian
2nd May 2011, 21:48
Nice :) Love to go deep.
I believe we are all focal points of this "intelligence/field/force".
With in it is infinite potential from which we manifest.
If we enact a change in it, does the change log from the first moment of existence or only from the moment we enact..?
K
Great question, thanks!
I believe everything happens in the now and that time is an illusion.
So I have to say option 1 :)
Nice :) Love to go deep.
I believe we are all focal points of this "intelligence/field/force".
With in it is infinite potential from which we manifest.
If we enact a change in it, does the change log from the first moment of existence or only from the moment we enact..?
K
Great question, thanks!
I believe everything happens in the now and that time is an illusion.
So I have to say option 1 :)
Would you say we see the effects of time in the phsical world but in all actuality in the realm of consciousness it doesn't exist? Or is it something else you're saying?
K
....and if something exists for no time at all (not even the tiniest valuation of time) how can we say that -that thing exists?
cheers
K
Think for a lot of us on here, this is the ultimate mystery. The big one!
There are many ideas floating around on the fourm that might hook up to this and as many people as there are on here, there are probably just as many variations of ideas on this subject.
Most of us would agree that the universe itself has a kind of intelligence or field and that we are all connected to this and that through this we are all part of each other. That perhaps through us the universe itself is learning as we learn, that the feedback loop is mutually benificial. That is all well and good but let me propose something a little more taxing as I'm keen to see where the boundaries fall.
I propose the whole universe is a creation of our consciousness and it is due to this that we so easily understand its language and interpret its data, however complex the conjecture and phenomena. How else would we continue to apply laws to such randomness and such vastness?
How else would we discern such complexity if it were not our minds that created it?
Are we part of the 'something' that was here before the universe existed at all?
It cannot be just chance that lets us interpret and develop our understanding of the universe, because the knowledge to mean something we must already know how that 'something' works.
Thoughts?
K
My own feeling is that I don't think we can truly discern such complexity as the universe that surounds, binds and influences us, at best I think, we can appreciate patterns and find ways to tame or benefit from such understandings. But to discern assumes we have a compete distant mountain view as well as a complete depth of understanding. I don't see this in the universe my mind has created.
If it were merely our minds that created it, surely it would be less complex or we would be more in tune with ourselves, our communities and our planet? I think therefore I am. I think we cannot comprehend the whole, therefore I must be simply a part of the whole. If on the rare instance we could gain such insight, would we be able or willing to bring it into our daily lives, would there even be a point, I doubt it?
If we could raise the intelligence of a dog for example, lets call him Spot, to understand that we humans in the distant past put a wolf and a coyote together and bred from them, we then have been interbreeding them for many thousands of years to produce different types, shapes and dispositions, for a variety of reasons from work through to companionship, could Spot be expected to understand our motivations as a species, never-mind the universe that spawned such creatures to populate it? I am not so sure Spot could get it, if he could he would no doubt soon be the head of our pack!
As for the idea of a return from the source back to the source, perhaps, to my limited mind it seems too hard to comprehend how cause can simultaneously be influenced by its own effect. I think I may have made my point, I am too stupid to get it… N
greybeard
2nd May 2011, 22:14
Manifested arises and subsides in the eternal moment.
It as though there is a roll of film with the movie on it--- its complete.
It does not need time to exist-- we, in human form, invented time to view the movie frame by frame.
Most people have things back to front=== We are not human --- we are consciousness having a human experience,
Its not that we go some where when we die, the human body is manifest we move into it call it home-- we move out.
We are formless un- manifest energy.
Chris
crosby
2nd May 2011, 23:12
lol...the mind boglgles doesn't it!!
If our consciousness created all that is... then what created our consciousness? soooo we must be a part of 'something' before. surely!...but how, when, and where?
Dont think too hard 626...I do at times and my brain just gives up... :confused:
viking
soooo, which came first, the chicken or the egg? i agree with you.
corson
RedeZra
2nd May 2011, 23:50
...and are we not all a part of the 'God'?
Peace
God Is All ; )
elysian
3rd May 2011, 08:15
K626,
I see it this way.
All things exist all the time at once.
In the physical we come to remember who we really are.
We come here to be a member once again with the "intelligence/field/force". (that is to re-member).
This is the game of life I believe.
For us to be able to play the game we limit our self to the physical and its illusions.
In order for our minds to comprehend an experince we slice it up in to small sequences and what we call time..
I Think of "Space" and "Time" as the same thing.
In the physical, Imagine standing on earth looking at a distant star.
You see space between you and the star.
Time is only the time it takes for the light to travel between you and the star.
When you see the star you see what it looked like a long time ago.
and the star see you as you looked a long time ago.
If you were to travel to that star and back faster then the speed of light you would see yourself before you left.
The question I ask my self when thinking of this is, Could I communicate with that part of me that hasn't left yet?
My logic tells me yes. but I would love to here someone elses view on that.
Anyways, I believe that in my mind this logic shows that we are every where we are ever going to be in the moment of now.
Would love your thought on this
:)
Isostool
3rd May 2011, 13:49
If we enact a change in it, does the change log from the first moment of existence or only from the moment we enact..?
K
If the change you enact is not through zero point, then in all epiphenominality, nothing changes for all is as it has always been, in all existent stillness expressed as all existent motion, going nowhere that is not known as all-that-is [impossible to go anywhere else, I should say...].* However, if the thing that you change is itself in ipsissimus; the very thing that is itself change, then how can you do anything but change.**
Relatively of course, within all that is inevitable. To do so is the equivalent of removing oneself from one's programming. It is to have an emergent (property) identity in which you actually change what occurs because you move out of the set of sets you previously occupied and get yourself a bigger nautilus spiral to call home. but unless you leave it completely, you have not left it at all. [looks around] "Everything packed this time K6?"
* The change logs in from the first moment of existence; it has always been that for your identity.
** The change logs in only from the moment you enact. You become your identity of identities, which is more complex than your previous identity.
a poem which I like says it for me.
If God knows everything there is to know,
Then I ask: how can God learn or grow?
If you knew all that was and all that will be,
Then how can any decision you make be free?
If you were everything and everything was you,
Then there would be nothing for you to do;
And there we find God, in this very position,
Imprisoned by the power of his own condition,
But there is a way to escape from this net,
All that God would have to do is forget,
Forget what He was and in ignorance find
Choice and free will, from confusion of mind;
And so God created a plane of limitation,
That confusing place we call creation,
A place of ignorance where we're free to choose,
Free to make mistakes and free to lose;
For only a being who knows not what is true
Has the free will to choose what to do;
Through us God can live, think, feel and see,
And experience He knew, but now He can be;
Yet though we've forgotten where we come from,
The closer we get, the happier we become,
With control of awareness you can return,
But you have less choice the more you learn;
Each mortal longs for the infinite touch,
Yet the infinite longs to know not so much;
TimelessDimensions
3rd May 2011, 16:39
In the center ;)
elysian
3rd May 2011, 17:05
In the center ;)
Very true!
Peace of Mind
3rd May 2011, 17:38
Hi all, this has always been an interesting subject.
Imo, we are all part of the universe. Everything in it (sun, moon ,stars,etc) along with our presence is formed through vibrations. This vibration is organized thought/s of the collective consciousness that is distributed into many pieces in order to get a more defining definition of itself (the whole).
Hmm, there’s truly much to touch on about the phenomenon, perhaps a brief correlation is at hand….yes, speaking of hand...
Analogy: The body is like a glove. The hand represents the populace/collective consciousness; the fingers represent the individuals/souls. This environment/reality/dimension/Earth… is hostile, chaotic yet energetic due to its dense matter. To be a part of this environment the hand needs to wear the glove (the body/vehicle) for it to have and/or learn from experiences in this environment. When the glove or parts of it wears away due to the harsh elements and time…the hand/fingers return back to the realm it came from……
I for one would not keep my exposed hand inside a toxic environment, not without something to coat and protect it.
Peace
Bollinger
3rd May 2011, 19:08
Think for a lot of us on here, this is the ultimate mystery. The big one!
There are many ideas floating around on the fourm that might hook up to this and as many people as there are on here, there are probably just as many variations of ideas on this subject.
Most of us would agree that the universe itself has a kind of intelligence or field and that we are all connected to this and that through this we are all part of each other. That perhaps through us the universe itself is learning as we learn, that the feedback loop is mutually benificial. That is all well and good but let me propose something a little more taxing as I'm keen to see where the boundaries fall.
I propose the whole universe is a creation of our consciousness and it is due to this that we so easily understand its language and interpret its data, however complex the conjecture and phenomena. How else would we continue to apply laws to such randomness and such vastness?
How else would we discern such complexity if it were not our minds that created it?
Are we part of the 'something' that was here before the universe existed at all?
It cannot be just chance that lets us interpret and develop our understanding of the universe, because the knowledge to mean something we must already know how that 'something' works.
Thoughts?
K
You are certainly right to ask. Many philosophers, past and the present, many thinkers, sages and people of wisdom have pondered over many centuries upon this question. And yet, here we are, still picking at it hoping for some unseen, unheard inspiration from somewhere to trickle through its impenetrable exterior and land at our feet.
Any conclusion you reach through the power of thought is bound to have at its base some assumption which may or may not be true. The problem arises as soon as we take the first step and assume that the very existence of the universe can be taken as a self-evident truth. Just because we think we exist, does it mean everything we see and touch also exists? Can we use the same affinity we have with our own existence and extend it to the universe or even some universal intelligence?
All our knowledge is very much personal to us. It would make no difference to anyone or anything if all our internal assumptions were wrong. To this end, we feel obliged to eradicate this uncomfortable feeling of being just a disconnected unit of consciousness meandering through the pitfalls of life. This obligation turns into a desire to belong in something much bigger, much grander than our pitiful individual autonomy.
We yearn so much to be like the drones on a Borg ship (as depicted in Star Trek), speaking with one voice, acting with one will, and yet all our instincts say it is a bad idea. We want autonomy but at the same time we want unity. We want guidance, we want help, we want to be saved, but on our own terms and those terms are ever changing and different at any one instant for any one individual.
None of us know what happiness or joy really is until something resembling it strikes us and we are enthralled and captivated but it is never the same when it happens again. We are fickle creatures, hardly ever knowing what it is that we want but knowing only that we want it badly. So often we are the architects of our own descent and dismay. We look for that spark, that one defining moment that lifts us up and takes us to the next level. We feel sick and tired of the same old repetitive events flowing through our lives seemingly going nowhere and having no real meaning. So, we appeal to something higher and it makes us feel good. It is so liberating, hope-filling and joy-giving to have some indefinable cause to believe in the intangible.
However, there is a price to be paid for that. While we formulate in one hand some theory or grounds for issuing grand statements about how we are all one and powerful as gods, the other hand cautiously looks on and wonders how it is that so much can stand on so little. It asks: would it make an iota of difference to your life if you knew with absolute certainty whether or not a universal intelligence did indeed exist? Can mere knowledge by itself change us so radically that we suddenly stop being the miserable, insignificant set of biological cells, cobbled together by something even viler than the creature he has created, perhaps in the hope of solving some petty problem or defeating a worthy adversary? All we know is that we don’t know and it sickens us to the core.
I find it tremendously unintuitive and unbecoming of an intelligence that would oversee the kind of existence into which this world has evolved. There is not a single person, idea or place that hasn’t been exploited and bastardised for some petty end. There are no depths to which we will not sink in order to further some transitory cause. There are no lengths to which we will not go to exploit, hurt, damage, kill and spread misery for some principle or idea that we think will further our aims. We are violent, spiteful creatures who more often than not react to events rather than learn from them. Our own misery and spite ensures that we feel justified in our ways because we insist it is always the other person’s fault.
Whether this world, this life is real or not is the only question worthy of an answer. If somehow I was able to stand outside the space and time this world occupied and randomly picked up a book from the cosmic shelf which told the entire story of life on earth, I will have stopped reading after page 10 and looked for the nearest cosmic bin. It is nothing more than a clumsy tragedy, badly written by a juvenile author who himself has probably been struck by early childhood abuse of some kind and is now projecting that pain on the characters in his awful book. Perhaps it has a happy ending after all but anything other than fiction, it most certainly is not.
...and are we not all a part of the 'God'?
Peace
God Is All ; )
Surely that is our invention? There was a time he only lived in the forest or perhaps in a sacred cave.
It is no surprise the greater our ability to comprehend the further away HE moves...
Peace
K
K626,
I see it this way.
All things exist all the time at once.
In the physical we come to remember who we really are.
We come here to be a member once again with the "intelligence/field/force". (that is to re-member).
This is the game of life I believe.
For us to be able to play the game we limit our self to the physical and its illusions.
In order for our minds to comprehend an experince we slice it up in to small sequences and what we call time..
I Think of "Space" and "Time" as the same thing.
In the physical, Imagine standing on earth looking at a distant star.
You see space between you and the star.
Time is only the time it takes for the light to travel between you and the star.
When you see the star you see what it looked like a long time ago.
and the star see you as you looked a long time ago.
If you were to travel to that star and back faster then the speed of light you would see yourself before you left.
The question I ask my self when thinking of this is, Could I communicate with that part of me that hasn't left yet?
My logic tells me yes. but I would love to here someone elses view on that.
Anyways, I believe that in my mind this logic shows that we are every where we are ever going to be in the moment of now.
Would love your thought on this
:)
I like that a lot, that is very good, infact it is novel. Never considered it that way...The mind lags...But does consciousness?
In a perfect AI controlled society it is said that the code would need a joker/chance embedded within it or the programme could never evolve. It simply could not learn without things
going wrong or chance events.
cheers
K
If we enact a change in it, does the change log from the first moment of existence or only from the moment we enact..?
K
If the change you enact is not through zero point, then in all epiphenominality, nothing changes for all is as it has always been, in all existent stillness expressed as all existent motion, going nowhere that is not known as all-that-is [impossible to go anywhere else, I should say...].* However, if the thing that you change is itself in ipsissimus; the very thing that is itself change, then how can you do anything but change.**
Relatively of course, within all that is inevitable. To do so is the equivalent of removing oneself from one's programming. It is to have an emergent (property) identity in which you actually change what occurs because you move out of the set of sets you previously occupied and get yourself a bigger nautilus spiral to call home. but unless you leave it completely, you have not left it at all. [looks around] "Everything packed this time K6?"
* The change logs in from the first moment of existence; it has always been that for your identity.
** The change logs in only from the moment you enact. You become your identity of identities, which is more complex than your previous identity.
Yours are always the hardest to engage with.
I think if we are talking about a singularity then that must be outside of time ie time stops ie all observations are possible across all possible eventualities and in that moment.
Is change only remembering to add something forgotten?
Think there is a spiral of identities as there are enless timelines and as they venture forward a correction ventures back to balance. These two eventualities colliding forms another singularity and so on...
love
K
¤=[Post Update]=¤
a poem which I like says it for me.
If God knows everything there is to know,
Then I ask: how can God learn or grow?
If you knew all that was and all that will be,
Then how can any decision you make be free?
If you were everything and everything was you,
Then there would be nothing for you to do;
And there we find God, in this very position,
Imprisoned by the power of his own condition,
But there is a way to escape from this net,
All that God would have to do is forget,
Forget what He was and in ignorance find
Choice and free will, from confusion of mind;
And so God created a plane of limitation,
That confusing place we call creation,
A place of ignorance where we're free to choose,
Free to make mistakes and free to lose;
For only a being who knows not what is true
Has the free will to choose what to do;
Through us God can live, think, feel and see,
And experience He knew, but now He can be;
Yet though we've forgotten where we come from,
The closer we get, the happier we become,
With control of awareness you can return,
But you have less choice the more you learn;
Each mortal longs for the infinite touch,
Yet the infinite longs to know not so much;
With perfection comes decay.
Kchronicles
¤=[Post Update]=¤
In the center ;)
It always collapses into a black hole.
love
K
Hi all, this has always been an interesting subject.
Imo, we are all part of the universe. Everything in it (sun, moon ,stars,etc) along with our presence is formed through vibrations. This vibration is organized thought/s of the collective consciousness that is distributed into many pieces in order to get a more defining definition of itself (the whole).
Hmm, there’s truly much to touch on about the phenomenon, perhaps a brief correlation is at hand….yes, speaking of hand...
Analogy: The body is like a glove. The hand represents the populace/collective consciousness; the fingers represent the individuals/souls. This environment/reality/dimension/Earth… is hostile, chaotic yet energetic due to its dense matter. To be a part of this environment the hand needs to wear the glove (the body/vehicle) for it to have and/or learn from experiences in this environment. When the glove or parts of it wears away due to the harsh elements and time…the hand/fingers return back to the realm it came from……
I for one would not keep my exposed hand inside a toxic environment, not without something to coat and protect it.
Peace
Agreed.
It is a song where we have forgotten the tune, but the tune is there in the background and we hear it at twilight or when half awake.
We project dim recollections of the song and the flux hovers and we see something we do not recognise.
But yes the song is haunting and it is of course a vibration.
The drum is still and the skin is taught and the player is imagined.
cheers
K
Think for a lot of us on here, this is the ultimate mystery. The big one!
There are many ideas floating around on the fourm that might hook up to this and as many people as there are on here, there are probably just as many variations of ideas on this subject.
Most of us would agree that the universe itself has a kind of intelligence or field and that we are all connected to this and that through this we are all part of each other. That perhaps through us the universe itself is learning as we learn, that the feedback loop is mutually benificial. That is all well and good but let me propose something a little more taxing as I'm keen to see where the boundaries fall.
I propose the whole universe is a creation of our consciousness and it is due to this that we so easily understand its language and interpret its data, however complex the conjecture and phenomena. How else would we continue to apply laws to such randomness and such vastness?
How else would we discern such complexity if it were not our minds that created it?
Are we part of the 'something' that was here before the universe existed at all?
It cannot be just chance that lets us interpret and develop our understanding of the universe, because the knowledge to mean something we must already know how that 'something' works.
Thoughts?
K
You are certainly right to ask. Many philosophers, past and the present, many thinkers, sages and people of wisdom have pondered over many centuries upon this question. And yet, here we are, still picking at it hoping for some unseen, unheard inspiration from somewhere to trickle through its impenetrable exterior and land at our feet.
Any conclusion you reach through the power of thought is bound to have at its base some assumption which may or may not be true. The problem arises as soon as we take the first step and assume that the very existence of the universe can be taken as a self-evident truth. Just because we think we exist, does it mean everything we see and touch also exists? Can we use the same affinity we have with our own existence and extend it to the universe or even some universal intelligence?
All our knowledge is very much personal to us. It would make no difference to anyone or anything if all our internal assumptions were wrong. To this end, we feel obliged to eradicate this uncomfortable feeling of being just a disconnected unit of consciousness meandering through the pitfalls of life. This obligation turns into a desire to belong in something much bigger, much grander than our pitiful individual autonomy.
We yearn so much to be like the drones on a Borg ship (as depicted in Star Trek), speaking with one voice, acting with one will, and yet all our instincts say it is a bad idea. We want autonomy but at the same time we want unity. We want guidance, we want help, we want to be saved, but on our own terms and those terms are ever changing and different at any one instant for any one individual.
None of us know what happiness or joy really is until something resembling it strikes us and we are enthralled and captivated but it is never the same when it happens again. We are fickle creatures, hardly ever knowing what it is that we want but knowing only that we want it badly. So often we are the architects of our own descent and dismay. We look for that spark, that one defining moment that lifts us up and takes us to the next level. We feel sick and tired of the same old repetitive events flowing through our lives seemingly going nowhere and having no real meaning. So, we appeal to something higher and it makes us feel good. It is so liberating, hope-filling and joy-giving to have some indefinable cause to believe in the intangible.
However, there is a price to be paid for that. While we formulate in one hand some theory or grounds for issuing grand statements about how we are all one and powerful as gods, the other hand cautiously looks on and wonders how it is that so much can stand on so little. It asks: would it make an iota of difference to your life if you knew with absolute certainty whether or not a universal intelligence did indeed exist? Can mere knowledge by itself change us so radically that we suddenly stop being the miserable, insignificant set of biological cells, cobbled together by something even viler than the creature he has created, perhaps in the hope of solving some petty problem or defeating a worthy adversary? All we know is that we don’t know and it sickens us to the core.
I find it tremendously unintuitive and unbecoming of an intelligence that would oversee the kind of existence into which this world has evolved. There is not a single person, idea or place that hasn’t been exploited and bastardised for some petty end. There are no depths to which we will not sink in order to further some transitory cause. There are no lengths to which we will not go to exploit, hurt, damage, kill and spread misery for some principle or idea that we think will further our aims. We are violent, spiteful creatures who more often than not react to events rather than learn from them. Our own misery and spite ensures that we feel justified in our ways because we insist it is always the other person’s fault.
Whether this world, this life is real or not is the only question worthy of an answer. If somehow I was able to stand outside the space and time this world occupied and randomly picked up a book from the cosmic shelf which told the entire story of life on earth, I will have stopped reading after page 10 and looked for the nearest cosmic bin. It is nothing more than a clumsy tragedy, badly written by a juvenile author who himself has probably been struck by early childhood abuse of some kind and is now projecting that pain on the characters in his awful book. Perhaps it has a happy ending after all but anything other than fiction, it most certainly is not.
It is important to get lost in the forest from time to time and have as the only worry the need for water.
cheers
K
My understanding is the basis of the universe is life. intelligence is relative, life is universal.
Mandala
4th May 2011, 00:55
(IMHO) I propose the following from two researchers. Universal consciousness exists whenever souls or soul/heart intelligence exists. There is always the potential for universal consciousness to exist, but it exists in the creator's intention to be where the soul/spirit exists. (Taken from Dolores Cannon's book, Convoluted Universe 3), she says her research indicates we have been everything; a rock, an insect, an animal, many alien species, lived many life forms etc.
George Kavassilas says graduation time is coming from the toughest school in the universe, as does Dr. Brian Weiss, (Earth); where upon graduation, we will be universal creators of light. Whether you believe George or not, (I am still researching), he says earth is an incarnation of a soul, and we will go on to do the same. Universes, planets, stars, etc.
May I ask Inelia to weigh in with an opinion. I most humbly thank you. Mandala
My understanding is the basis of the universe is life. intelligence is relative, life is universal.
Do you mean intelligence is relative or consciousness?
K
ktlight
4th May 2011, 10:13
Think for a lot of us on here, this is the ultimate mystery. The big one!
There are many ideas floating around on the fourm that might hook up to this and as many people as there are on here, there are probably just as many variations of ideas on this subject.
Most of us would agree that the universe itself has a kind of intelligence or field and that we are all connected to this and that through this we are all part of each other. That perhaps through us the universe itself is learning as we learn, that the feedback loop is mutually benificial. That is all well and good but let me propose something a little more taxing as I'm keen to see where the boundaries fall.
I propose the whole universe is a creation of our consciousness and it is due to this that we so easily understand its language and interpret its data, however complex the conjecture and phenomena. How else would we continue to apply laws to such randomness and such vastness?
How else would we discern such complexity if it were not our minds that created it?
Are we part of the 'something' that was here before the universe existed at all?
It cannot be just chance that lets us interpret and develop our understanding of the universe, because the knowledge to mean something we must already know how that 'something' works.
Thoughts?
K
What consciousness do you speak of here? Must be the collective consciousness. What is it where the collective consciousness meets with the universal consciousness. I envisage it joining beyond itself. Individually, when the consciousness meets with the universal consciousness, there is a joy, a stillness, an intelligence more than the individual's, which sweeps through the mind, smoothing everything out. It is actually indescribable, there are no words. The individual knows.
It is not something that thought can think up, it is an event, a happening.
I hope I am answering you here.
RedeZra
4th May 2011, 10:58
...and are we not all a part of the 'God'?
God Is All ; )
Surely that is our invention?
God creates while we invent ; )
daddy fishwick
4th May 2011, 11:08
A comedy show for an advanced race?
A beautifull mistake?
Live it and love it!
...and are we not all a part of the 'God'?
God Is All ; )
Surely that is our invention?
God creates while we invent ; )
God creates through us?
K
RedeZra
4th May 2011, 12:03
...and are we not all a part of the 'God'?
God Is All ; )
Surely that is our invention?
God creates while we invent ; )
God creates through us?
there was no human involvement in the making of the stars the sun and the earth ; )
yaksuit
4th May 2011, 12:56
...and are we not all a part of the 'God'?
God Is All ; )
Surely that is our invention?
God creates while we invent ; )
God creates through us?
K
God's "probes" ?
Cells of a multi-dimensional "being/s"?
Tonal allegory:
IMO our collective "tone" and the ability to experience phases, modulation and synergy while operating a physical body could be an important asset and catalyst for a need for a three dimensional experience. This opportunity could be a widget "experience" which allows for "life forms/consciousness" to be a conduit to tune an out of tune tone/chord in the 3D collective which is obviously not mutually exclusive to the multiverse. I feel "we" and other wonderful "life forms" are capable of "consciously" transforming this planets "tone".
Perhaps a "soul" in a physical body is needed to add to the "spectrum" as to what constitutes and enables a "tone" which then enables the fundamentals for the ongoing composing of a symphony experience as it were. Maybe we are at the last movement of a symphony and are preparing to compose and conduct a new movement.
In this context if consciousness is the composer, we are "musicians".
"God" has eclectic taste in music ? ;)
cheers
yak
...and are we not all a part of the 'God'?
God Is All ; )
Surely that is our invention?
God creates while we invent ; )
God creates through us?
K
God's "probes" ?
Cells of a multi-dimensional "being/s"?
Tonal allegory:
IMO our collective "tone" and the ability to experiences phases, modulation and synergy while operating a physical body could be an important asset and catalyst for a need for a three dimensional experience. This opportunity could be a widget "experience" which allows for "life forms/consciousness" to be a conduit to tune an out of tune tone/chord in the 3D collective which is obviously not mutually exclusive to the multiverse. I feel "we" and other wonderful "life forms" are capable of "consciously" transforming this planets "tone".
Perhaps a "soul" in a physical body is needed to add to the "spectrum" as to what constitutes and enables a "tone" which then enables the fundamentals for the ongoing composing of a symphony experience as it were. Maybe we are at the last movement of a symphony and are preparing to compose and conduct a new movement.
In this context if consciousness is the composer, we are "musicians".
"God" has eclectic taste in music ? ;)
cheers
yak
Like that a lot Yak my friend.
Peace
k
yaksuit
4th May 2011, 14:22
Your welcome K626.
Excellent thread!!!
I appreciate the friendship,
cheers,
yak
Isostool
4th May 2011, 14:45
I think if we are talking about a singularity then that must be outside of time ie time stops ie all observations are possible across all possible eventualities and in that moment.
Is change only remembering to add something forgotten?
Think there is a spiral of identities as there are enless timelines and as they venture forward a correction ventures back to balance. These two eventualities colliding forms another singularity and so on...
love
K
=======
It always collapses into a black hole.
love
K
Warning: black hole
If you have not ventured outside of your programme, then all you ever do is add something forgotten; as it is all enclosed by the identity you are. However, if you do [break out], you venture into a set, in which the origin in which it was always contained, is outside of what you were contained in before; it is other than that which was required to make your previous set complete in identity self-awareness.
The second, more complex identity set has greater resolution and travels further back in time [which = a greater area of space, for time as such is only the act of space realising it is space[travelling]].
And yet ironically, the less complex set in this example, might see itself, in being stuck in time and space as it is, as completely held in identity by all that is singularity as the first and the last, in self similar resonance. When in actuality that which is seen to have the less may have the more [1]. The smaller set may then 'just as well' compute itself as coming from the singularity , when if you magnify the less complex set to a greater resolution, there is an abyss there inbetween them and the one and then not only were they not contained in the first but they are not contained in themselves and indeed they do not exist.
That being the case, what is there to add that is forgotten? Nonexistence.
[1] It is also to understand that in whichever direction and translation you understand this sentence, only that which actually has the more, does. And by that I don't infer that the smaller set does.
[Pause] Yes. *Looks* at the observer who is perhaps in dismay: .... "no that's not right... all I know about my eternal existence is right and true and good. All I know about reincarnation. About what is just and good and so on..."
Yes. *looks again*: But what if I'm [I]right? Are you but deluded into some kind of complacency? By an unseen enemy, which is your own self? Hmmmmm? Too much a black hole for you my dears?
Mad Hatter
4th May 2011, 15:46
NOW... (on a good day)
NOW... (on a good day)
NOW continues to pass. So much for the moment. Drift?
K
Isostool
5th May 2011, 03:41
NOW continues to pass. So much for the moment. Drift?
K
Anchor. Make a stand.
For who am I to say the moment exists without you? you read my words. all that I am is your voice in your head. Who am I? I am you. I don't pass, as a moment, ever (in relativity). For I am your voice for as long as you exist. all you can surely say is that this is that which I am (you cannot surely say I am another on the internet talking to you as surely as you can know I am your own voice alone, in your head, reading whatever you percieve on this page).
And so. all moments are as you are. they do not progress; you do.
[And so. all moments are as I am. they do not progress; I do.]
there is naught but you. and all-that-is, is yours. as it is meant to be. and as within; so without. Or if you prefer; there is truly no seperation, and all that you are is all that there is.
[there is naught but that which I am. and all-that-is is mine. as it is meant to be. There is truly no seperation; and all that I am is all that there is.]
Mad Hatter
5th May 2011, 08:38
NOW... (on a good day)
NOW continues to pass. So much for the moment. Drift?
K
Hi K626
I realised that was a bit trite after hitting the post key. :o
It was a left brained (as is my wont) reponse in the sense that I can do nothing about the past, the future hasn't arrived, so the only time I can do anything is now...
Drift is what happens on a bad day!! (I get nothing done for fretting over past/future) ;)
I like where Isostool went with it.... makes the infinite universe about the size of my head!!
If one adds to that the concept of choice ie chocolate or vanilla the best I can do is nothing more but make a choice in the constant now...
If what I see around me is Universal intelligence and I am the one expressing it then I think I am in deep sh!t and more than a few bags of chlorine are required for the gene pool!! :eek:
cheers
NOW... (on a good day)
NOW continues to pass. So much for the moment. Drift?
K
Hi K626
I realised that was a bit trite after hitting the post key. :o
It was a left brained (as is my wont) reponse in the sense that I can do nothing about the past, the future hasn't arrived, so the only time I can do anything is now...
Drift is what happens on a bad day!! (I get nothing done for fretting over past/future) ;)
I like where Isostool went with it.... makes the infinite universe about the size of my head!!
If one adds to that the concept of choice ie chocolate or vanilla the best I can do is nothing more but make a choice in the constant now...
If what I see around me is Universal intelligence and I am the one expressing it then I think I am in deep sh!t and more than a few bags of chlorine are required for the gene pool!! :eek:
cheers
There can surely be no meaning to it than the meaning we subscribe...Is it not so?
K
nb
A friend I met earlier today reminded me that my previous theory was that the universe is being created from the future (by beings just like us/or versions of us), to make it a comfortable spawning ground and fertile thinking arena for us. That our intelligence grid would continue to expand and encompass the universe.
Good point in the thread to take this onboard:
"The early multiverse can perhaps be thought of as a massively parallel quantum computer which explored all of possibility-space until it was able to generate a living body, which became the habitation of an observing, sentient being. At that moment the multiverse collapsed into the actuality of that one alternative environment. This theory is known as the Participatory Anthropic Principle and was first put forward by the physicist John A.Wheeler in 1983.
But where did the observing mind come from? Buddhist philosophers claim that minds are primordial and exist before entering their physical environment. In the early stages of its evolution the universe was, of course, uninhabitable for animals and humans.
But according to B. Alan Wallace [Wallace 1996], highly advanced Buddist and Hindu contemplatives speak of experiencing other realms, or dimensions of existence that transcend this gross sensual realm which they call kamadhatu. They report the existence of rupadhatu, a form realm that is unperturbed by many of the changes in the gross physical cosmos. And beyond this is the arupyadhatu, a formless realm that is completely unaffected by the stages of cosmic evolution. All three of these realms are said to be inhabited by sentient beings. When the gross physical dimension of a cosmos is uninhabitable, sentient beings reside in the rupadhatu and arupyadhatu or in other inhabitable cosmoses. Humans cannot dwell in the rupadhatu and arupyadhatu, though these realms are accessible to a human mind that has been highly refined through meditation.
The bottom line of the participatory anthropic principle is that minds can exist independently of matter, and they create their actual environments from the potentialities around them. But isn't this all just pure metaphysical speculation? Well maybe not. The participatory anthropic principle makes potentially verifiable statements about the early history of the universe, the speed of evolution and the occurrence of extremely unlikely evolutionary steps, including the first appearance of life itself."
cheers
K
ghostrider
5th May 2011, 22:46
we know everything, we just operate on 10% the other 90% holds the connection to all energy and great consciousness of divine life.
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/11/29/article-1334027-0C46BBE8000005DC-589_634x559.jpg
A paper posted online on the website arXiv.org by respected scientists Professor Roger Penrose from Oxford University and Professor Vahe Gurzadyan from Yerevan State University, Armenia, suggested the universe could be much older han previously thought.
Penrose and Gurzadyan argue that evidence unearthed by Nasa’s Wilkinson Microwave Anisotophy Probe in the CMB shows imprints in the radiation that are older than the Big Bang.
They say they have discovered 12 examples of concentric circles, some of which have five rings, meaning the same object has had five massive events in its history.
The rings appear around galaxy clusters in which the variation in the background radiation appears to be strangely low.
The research appears to cast aside the widely-held 'inflationary' theory of the origins of the universe, that it began with the Big Bang, and will continue to expand until a point in the future, when it will end.
They believe the circles are imprints of extremely violent gravitational radiation waves generated by supermassive black hole collisions in a previous aeon before the last big bang."
Maia Gabrial
6th May 2011, 02:16
So, if Consciousness is everything, animate and inanimate, then we're never alone....
^/*
Maia
What if the Universe was in fact a simulation? A product of some information processor, creating space and time, energy and matter? What if the Big Bang was the whole simulation booting up, beginning billions of years of space and time calculations? Can we possibly understand our consciousness as a subroutine in an advanced number crunching machine? A new paper published by the Centre for Discrete Mathematics and Theoretical Computer Science, University of Auckland, asks us to keep an open mind and suggests if we look at the complexity of physical laws of our known universe, many paradoxes may be explained if we view our physical reality as a virtual reality.
Virtual reality is a term that has been used frequently in sci-fi novels and movies since the early 1980′s but the term artificial reality can be traced back to the 1970′s. Movies such as Tron, The Matrix and Lawnmower Man centre around the possibility of fully immersible virtual realities. It is only very recently however, with advanced interactive gaming systems and the design of complex virtual worlds online and on home computers, that we can experience worlds of sufficient detail that we can be fooled into believing what we are experiencing approximates physical reality. Additional systems have been engineered to provide the user with feedback from the virtual world they are interacting with (whether it is a rumble in the joypad or wired gloves giving the user a sense of touch), enhancing the experience beyond purely a visual one.
Taking a look at physics in our universe, many paradoxes and uncertainties exist. Quantum physics is one such field highlighted in Brian Whitworth’s research and considered to be “strange” physics, giving some justification to his theory we might actually be immersed in a virtual reality world..."
http://www.universetoday.com/12445/our-virtual-reality-universe/
"This paper explores the idea that the universe is a virtual reality created by information processing, and relates this strange idea to the findings of modern physics about the physical world. The virtual reality concept is familiar to us from online worlds, but our world as a virtual reality is usually a subject for science fiction rather than science. Yet logically the world could be an information simulation running on a multi-dimensional space-time screen. Indeed, if the essence of the universe is information, matter, charge, energy and movement could be aspects of information, and the many conservation laws could be a single law of information conservation. If the universe were a virtual reality, its creation at the big bang would no longer be paradoxical, as every virtual system must be booted up. It is suggested that whether the world is an objective reality or a virtual reality is a matter for science to resolve. Modern information science can suggest how core physical properties like space, time, light, matter and movement could derive from information processing. Such an approach could reconcile relativity and quantum theories, with the former being how information processing creates space-time, and the latter how it creates energy and matter."
http://arxiv.org/abs/0801.0337
Peace
K
"Investigate yourself this is the purpose of your being"...
BNIvQzryesY
Agape
10th May 2011, 21:04
A paper posted online on the website arXiv.org by respected scientists Professor Roger Penrose from Oxford University and Professor Vahe Gurzadyan from Yerevan State University, Armenia, suggested the universe could be much older han previously thought.
Penrose and Gurzadyan argue that evidence unearthed by Nasa’s Wilkinson Microwave Anisotophy Probe in the CMB shows imprints in the radiation that are older than the Big Bang.
They say they have discovered 12 examples of concentric circles, some of which have five rings, meaning the same object has had five massive events in its history.
The rings appear around galaxy clusters in which the variation in the background radiation appears to be strangely low.
The research appears to cast aside the widely-held 'inflationary' theory of the origins of the universe, that it began with the Big Bang, and will continue to expand until a point in the future, when it will end.
They believe the circles are imprints of extremely violent gravitational radiation waves generated by supermassive black hole collisions in a previous aeon before the last big bang."
The universe is indeed very old ...further than we will ever be able to see ...
A paper posted online on the website arXiv.org by respected scientists Professor Roger Penrose from Oxford University and Professor Vahe Gurzadyan from Yerevan State University, Armenia, suggested the universe could be much older han previously thought.
Penrose and Gurzadyan argue that evidence unearthed by Nasa’s Wilkinson Microwave Anisotophy Probe in the CMB shows imprints in the radiation that are older than the Big Bang.
They say they have discovered 12 examples of concentric circles, some of which have five rings, meaning the same object has had five massive events in its history.
The rings appear around galaxy clusters in which the variation in the background radiation appears to be strangely low.
The research appears to cast aside the widely-held 'inflationary' theory of the origins of the universe, that it began with the Big Bang, and will continue to expand until a point in the future, when it will end.
They believe the circles are imprints of extremely violent gravitational radiation waves generated by supermassive black hole collisions in a previous aeon before the last big bang."
The universe is indeed very old ...further than we will ever be able to see ...
I know what you're saying... The world old doesn't really even cover it I guess.
cheers
K
Astra
10th May 2011, 22:27
The universe is indeed very old ...further than we will ever be able to see ...
I know what you're saying... The world old doesn't really even cover it I guess.
cheers
K
So true! There are times when words and languages appear to be an insufficient necessity ... Perhaps in silence we could hear the true music of the Universe(s)...
Great thred, thanks K626.
The universe is indeed very old ...further than we will ever be able to see ...
I know what you're saying... The world old doesn't really even cover it I guess.
cheers
K
So true! There are times when words and languages appear to be an insufficient necessity ... Perhaps in silence we could hear the true music of the Universe(s)...
Great thred, thanks K626.
...and of course music is that which it is...
Peace
K
Astra
11th May 2011, 23:53
...and of course music is that which it is...
Peace
K
"All sounds are a part of Him who wears a garment of Sound"
--Vishnu Purana
.... music ....music is a reflection of the DI ( Divine Intelligence) ... like the divine music of Mozart is that which it is - a pure celestial message in all its magic and glory ... while the music of J.S. Bach, for example, echoes a knowledge of the order of all things ... and then there is a Cosmic vibration, some call it “a sound of creation”, which could be vaguely described as a force behind transforming, shaping all living and non-living ... The Universe might be holding the most beautiful musical score in its pure essence ... ... but our human ear, at this stage of evolution, is not yet capable of hearing the Symphony... There is a “Cosmic score” that sometimes gets incarnated in great musical piece, here on Earth ...
Sorry if digressing ...
With Love and Respect, :)
Astra
...and of course music is that which it is...
Peace
K
"All sounds are a part of Him who wears a garment of Sound"
--Vishnu Purana
.... music ....music is a reflection of the DI ( Divine Intelligence) ... like the divine music of Mozart is that which it is - a pure celestial message in all its magic and glory ... while the music of J.S. Bach, for example, echoes a knowledge of the order of all things ... and then there is a Cosmic vibration, some call it “a sound of creation”, which could be vaguely described as a force behind transforming, shaping all living and non-living ... The Universe might be holding the most beautiful musical score in its pure essence ... ... but our human ear, at this stage of evolution, is not yet capable of hearing the Symphony... There is a “Cosmic score” that sometimes gets incarnated in great musical piece, here on Earth ...
Sorry if digressing ...
With Love and Respect, :)
Astra
That brought a smile to my face.
What a lovely and inspirational post. Thank you.
peace
K
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTOVA7Q7tVeQrsJCkACo1QON-XQX0slPwpIuqWtvZuXJvBhPdcK
http://www.atlasoftheuniverse.com/universe.gif
Agape
12th May 2011, 13:57
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll256/PaldenLhamo/ET%20scans/Hkweg.jpg
I tried drawing to this but pitchunter7384 did not upload the full size , if you scroll right low corner for where we're home.
Do we have any better map perhaps ?
:panda:
Agape
12th May 2011, 18:58
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rdxtM5mrA4&feature=related
Michio Kaku makes few very good points ...
:angel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rdxtM5mrA4&feature=related
Michio Kaku makes few very good points ...
:angel:
I like Michio, but sometimes he's a little too mechanistic for me.
cheers
K
Lettherebelight
14th May 2011, 13:51
My stand on the universe, and how it works, follows the Vedic version. This certainly isn't just my stand, but many thousand of self realized souls who have preceded us. The great thing is that it is still available to us, it just requires a little research.
The extent of control we are able to exert on the universe and 'our world', is determined by the influence of the modes of nature. There are three modes of nature ('gunas', or energetic ropes) which make up the material universe. Nothing material exists outside their influence. These three modes of material
nature (or tri-guna mayi) are:
tamo guna (mode of ignorance or destruction),
raja guna (mode of passion or creation), and...
satva guna (mode of goodness or maintenance).
They determine one's entire conditioning..behavioral, physical..everything. They are determined by our actions, in this life, and previous lives.
This material universe, as well as the millions of other universes, is highly stuctured, and governed by strict natural laws. Spiritual consciousness...( that's
us!), is injected into the material world, animating it, making it appear alive. We exist in a construct, and these modes of nature are difficult if not impossible to overcome. Do not delude yourself into thinking they are easy to rise above or to control.
Having said this, the conditioned living entity is able to make choices in his own actions and beliefs, raise awareness and increase personal capabilities to various levels...even to very high levels.
The Vedas include many accounts of individuals who have, by performing focussed, sustained austerities, acheived amazing capabilities. The great sage Kardama Muni astounded even himself, when he manifested a huge aerial spaceship by his yogic prowess. (Srimad Bhagavatam, Canto 3-Capter 24)
So, we are the controllers of our own, individual destinies, but it is not possible for the individual livng entity to rise above the three modes of nature, entirely, without the assistance of the Supreme Controller.
My stand on the universe, and how it works, follows the Vedic version. It cetainly isn't just my stand, but many thousand of self realized souls who have preceded us. The great thing is that it is still available to us, it just requires a little research.
The extent of control we are able to exert on the universe and 'our world', is determined by the influence of the modes of nature. There are three modes of nature ('gunas', or energetic ropes) which make up the material universe. Nothing material exists outside their influence. These three modes of material
nature (or tri-guna mayi) are:
tamo guna (mode of ignorance or destruction),
raja guna (mode of passion or creation), and...
satva guna (mode of goodness or maintenance).
They determine one's entire conditioning..behavioral, physical..everything. They are determined by our actions, in this life, and previous lives.
This material universe, as well as the millions of other universes, is highly stuctured and governed by strict natural laws. Spiritual consciousness...( that's
us!), is injected into the material world, animating it, making it appear alive. We exist in a construct, and these modes of nature are difficult if not impossible to overcome. Do not delude yourself into thinking they are easy to rise above or to control.
Having said this, thee conditioned living entity is able to make choices in his own actions and beliefs, raise awareness and increase personal capabilities to various levels...even to very high levels.
The Vedas include many accounts of individuals who have, by performing focussed, sustained austerities, acheived amazing capabilities. The great sage Kardama Muni astounded even himself, when he manifested a huge aerial spaceship by his yogic prowess. (Srimad Bhagavatam, Canto 3-Capter 24)
So, we are the controllers of our own, individual destinies, but it is not possible for the individual livng entity to rise above the three modes of nature, entirely, without the assistance of the Supreme Controller.
What is the goal of the supreme controller?
cheers
K
yaksuit
15th May 2011, 13:22
My stand on the universe, and how it works, follows the Vedic version. It cetainly isn't just my stand, but many thousand of self realized souls who have preceded us. The great thing is that it is still available to us, it just requires a little research.
The extent of control we are able to exert on the universe and 'our world', is determined by the influence of the modes of nature. There are three modes of nature ('gunas', or energetic ropes) which make up the material universe. Nothing material exists outside their influence. These three modes of material
nature (or tri-guna mayi) are:
tamo guna (mode of ignorance or destruction),
raja guna (mode of passion or creation), and...
satva guna (mode of goodness or maintenance).
They determine one's entire conditioning..behavioral, physical..everything. They are determined by our actions, in this life, and previous lives.
This material universe, as well as the millions of other universes, is highly stuctured and governed by strict natural laws. Spiritual consciousness...( that's
us!), is injected into the material world, animating it, making it appear alive. We exist in a construct, and these modes of nature are difficult if not impossible to overcome. Do not delude yourself into thinking they are easy to rise above or to control.
Having said this, thee conditioned living entity is able to make choices in his own actions and beliefs, raise awareness and increase personal capabilities to various levels...even to very high levels.
The Vedas include many accounts of individuals who have, by performing focussed, sustained austerities, acheived amazing capabilities. The great sage Kardama Muni astounded even himself, when he manifested a huge aerial spaceship by his yogic prowess. (Srimad Bhagavatam, Canto 3-Capter 24)
So, we are the controllers of our own, individual destinies, but it is not possible for the individual livng entity to rise above the three modes of nature, entirely, without the assistance of the Supreme Controller.
What is the goal of the supreme controller?
cheers
K
(imho) A 'supreme controller" would not need to "control" other than facilitate the potential freewill and consciousness within the multiverse.
Freewill might be the ultimate reward and achievement of a "supreme controller", as freewill would cyclically facilitate a dynamic that would/could/has/is self regulating. Cyclical patterns repeating "verbatim" would seem unlikely because consciousness that includes the illusion of linear time would never collectively need to repeat a carbon copy "experience" imo. There could be a collective "goal" that presents itself within a series of cycles that would require a few cosmic laps so to speak to become "realised". A "supreme controller" would/could know this "potential" in "advance" and therefore the function of freewill could be partly to prevent stasis. Within this context a "static utopian cycle" would therefore inevitably facilitate and require "consciousness" and ultimately "duality".
Logic suggests imo that a "supreme controller" would not be "bossy", or "lazy" (regardless of consciousness being spawned from a static utopian cycle) or we would not be "here". :)
Cheers,
yak
Lettherebelight
15th May 2011, 15:54
When I said 'Supreme Controller', I refer to the Supreme Personality of Godhead...or God, Bhagavan, the Great Spirit... whatever name one's faith gives to that supreme entity.
By definition, that 'being' may not necessarily fit neatly into one's perameters of 'logic'.
I agree however, the term 'Supreme Controller' does have a 'bossy' ring to it. The sanskrit word is 'Ishvara', which means 'in control', 'lord over', 'boss of'.
We are little Ishvaras, indeed, the individual jiva (soul), is more powerful than 10,000 suns. God is Param Ishvara, unlimited.
@ K626, re God's goal...hmmm. God is also referred to as the 'Supreme Enjoyer'...that is a definite clue... that's why we too, are pleasure seeking by nature...:smokin:
My stand on the universe, and how it works, follows the Vedic version. It cetainly isn't just my stand, but many thousand of self realized souls who have preceded us. The great thing is that it is still available to us, it just requires a little research.
The extent of control we are able to exert on the universe and 'our world', is determined by the influence of the modes of nature. There are three modes of nature ('gunas', or energetic ropes) which make up the material universe. Nothing material exists outside their influence. These three modes of material
nature (or tri-guna mayi) are:
tamo guna (mode of ignorance or destruction),
raja guna (mode of passion or creation), and...
satva guna (mode of goodness or maintenance).
They determine one's entire conditioning..behavioral, physical..everything. They are determined by our actions, in this life, and previous lives.
This material universe, as well as the millions of other universes, is highly stuctured and governed by strict natural laws. Spiritual consciousness...( that's
us!), is injected into the material world, animating it, making it appear alive. We exist in a construct, and these modes of nature are difficult if not impossible to overcome. Do not delude yourself into thinking they are easy to rise above or to control.
Having said this, thee conditioned living entity is able to make choices in his own actions and beliefs, raise awareness and increase personal capabilities to various levels...even to very high levels.
The Vedas include many accounts of individuals who have, by performing focussed, sustained austerities, acheived amazing capabilities. The great sage Kardama Muni astounded even himself, when he manifested a huge aerial spaceship by his yogic prowess. (Srimad Bhagavatam, Canto 3-Capter 24)
So, we are the controllers of our own, individual destinies, but it is not possible for the individual livng entity to rise above the three modes of nature, entirely, without the assistance of the Supreme Controller.
What is the goal of the supreme controller?
cheers
K
(imho) A 'supreme controller" would not need to "control" other than facilitate the potential freewill and consciousness within the multiverse.
Freewill might be the ultimate reward and achievement of a "supreme controller", as freewill would cyclically facilitate a dynamic that would/could/has/is self regulating. Cyclical patterns repeating "verbatim" would seem unlikely because consciousness that includes the illusion of linear time would never collectively need to repeat a carbon copy "experience" imo. There could be a collective "goal" that presents itself within a series of cycles that would require a few cosmic laps so to speak to become "realised". A "supreme controller" would/could know this "potential" in "advance" and therefore the function of freewill could be partly to prevent stasis. Within this context a "static utopian cycle" would therefore inevitably facilitate and require "consciousness" and ultimately "duality".
Logic suggests imo that a "supreme controller" would not be "bossy", or "lazy" (regardless of consciousness being spawned from a static utopian cycle) or we would not be "here". :)
Cheers,
yak
Look at this...
http://bcove.me/4xmlo5z2
¤=[Post Update]=¤
When I said 'Supreme Controller', I refer to the Supreme Personality of Godhead...or God, Bhagavan, the Great Spirit... whatever name one's faith gives to that supreme entity.
By definition, that 'being' may not necessarily fit neatly into one's perameters of 'logic'.
I agree however, the term 'Supreme Controller' does have a 'bossy' ring to it. The sanskrit word is 'Ishvara', which means 'in control', 'lord over', 'boss of'.
We are little Ishvaras, indeed, the individual jiva (soul), is more powerful than 10,000 suns. God is Param Ishvara, unlimited.
@ K626, re God's goal...hmmm. God is also referred to as the 'Supreme Enjoyer'...that is a definite clue... that's why we are pleasure seeking by nature...:smokin:
How much of this do you think is ascribed by us?
Lettherebelight
15th May 2011, 21:29
How much of this do you think is ascribed by us?
Well, I don't think any of it is ascribed by us...it just is. Laws of nature exist, and influence our existence, whether or not we are aware of them.
I will say this also of the Vedas. 'Veda' is a sanskrit word that means 'knowledge'. Many, many types of knowledge. They also discuss types of faith. Even one's faith will be influenced by these modes of nature. That is why there are many approaches to faith, according to the individual's consciousness. None of them can be judged as 'inappropriate', because they match the consciousness of the believer. This is the understanding of the Vedas.
The late, great Tecumseh (Native American mahatma, great soul) advised likewise....
...'So live your life that the fear of death can never enter your heart.
Trouble no one about their religion;
respect others in their view, and demand that they respect yours.
Love your life, perfect your life, beautify all things in your life....'
A belief that heaven or an afterlife awaits us is a "fairy story" for people afraid of death, Stephen Hawking has said.
In a dismissal that underlines his firm rejection of religious comforts, Britain's most eminent scientist said there was nothing beyond the moment when the brain flickers for the final time.
Hawking, who was diagnosed with motor neurone disease at the age of 21, shares his thoughts on death, human purpose and our chance existence in an exclusive interview with the Guardian today.
The incurable illness was expected to kill Hawking within a few years of its symptoms arising, an outlook that turned the young scientist to Wagner, but ultimately led him to enjoy life more, he has said, despite the cloud hanging over his future.
"I have lived with the prospect of an early death for the last 49 years. I'm not afraid of death, but I'm in no hurry to die. I have so much I want to do first," he said.
"I regard the brain as a computer which will stop working when its components fail. There is no heaven or afterlife for broken down computers; that is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark," he added.
Oh Stephen...So much brain and so little mind.
Peace
K
¤=[Post Update]=¤
How much of this do you think is ascribed by us?
Well, I don't think any of it is ascribed by us...it just is. Laws of nature exist, and influence our existence, whether or not we are aware of them.
I will say this also of the Vedas. 'Veda' is a sanskrit word that means 'knowledge'. Many, many types of knowledge. They also discuss types of faith. Even one's faith will be influenced by these modes of nature. That is why there are many approaches to faith, according to the individual's consciousness. None of them can be judged as 'inappropriate', because they match the consciousness of the believer. This is the understanding of the Vedas.
The late, great Tecumseh (Native American mahatma, great soul) advised likewise....
...'So live your life that the fear of death can never enter your heart.
Trouble no one about their religion;
respect others in their view, and demand that they respect yours.
Love your life, perfect your life, beautify all things in your life....'
Who wrote the Vedas and the Ramayana and the Baghvad Gita?
love
K
My stand on the universe, and how it works, follows the Vedic version. It cetainly isn't just my stand, but many thousand of self realized souls who have preceded us. The great thing is that it is still available to us, it just requires a little research.
The extent of control we are able to exert on the universe and 'our world', is determined by the influence of the modes of nature. There are three modes of nature ('gunas', or energetic ropes) which make up the material universe. Nothing material exists outside their influence. These three modes of material
nature (or tri-guna mayi) are:
tamo guna (mode of ignorance or destruction),
raja guna (mode of passion or creation), and...
satva guna (mode of goodness or maintenance).
They determine one's entire conditioning..behavioral, physical..everything. They are determined by our actions, in this life, and previous lives.
This material universe, as well as the millions of other universes, is highly stuctured and governed by strict natural laws. Spiritual consciousness...( that's
us!), is injected into the material world, animating it, making it appear alive. We exist in a construct, and these modes of nature are difficult if not impossible to overcome. Do not delude yourself into thinking they are easy to rise above or to control.
Having said this, thee conditioned living entity is able to make choices in his own actions and beliefs, raise awareness and increase personal capabilities to various levels...even to very high levels.
The Vedas include many accounts of individuals who have, by performing focussed, sustained austerities, acheived amazing capabilities. The great sage Kardama Muni astounded even himself, when he manifested a huge aerial spaceship by his yogic prowess. (Srimad Bhagavatam, Canto 3-Capter 24)
So, we are the controllers of our own, individual destinies, but it is not possible for the individual livng entity to rise above the three modes of nature, entirely, without the assistance of the Supreme Controller.
What is the goal of the supreme controller?
cheers
K
(imho) A 'supreme controller" would not need to "control" other than facilitate the potential freewill and consciousness within the multiverse.
Freewill might be the ultimate reward and achievement of a "supreme controller", as freewill would cyclically facilitate a dynamic that would/could/has/is self regulating. Cyclical patterns repeating "verbatim" would seem unlikely because consciousness that includes the illusion of linear time would never collectively need to repeat a carbon copy "experience" imo. There could be a collective "goal" that presents itself within a series of cycles that would require a few cosmic laps so to speak to become "realised". A "supreme controller" would/could know this "potential" in "advance" and therefore the function of freewill could be partly to prevent stasis. Within this context a "static utopian cycle" would therefore inevitably facilitate and require "consciousness" and ultimately "duality".
Logic suggests imo that a "supreme controller" would not be "bossy", or "lazy" (regardless of consciousness being spawned from a static utopian cycle) or we would not be "here". :)
Cheers,
yak
"It could be argued that modern science has only strengthened the determinist’s position. The recent completion of the human genome project caused much discussion throughout not only the scientific community but also among philosophers, theologians and ethicists. At the centre of the debate was the claim that within a few years scientists would be able to identify genes that were directly responsible for a person’s behaviour. The idea of being able to pin point a gene responsible for one’s sexual orientation or disposition to commit crimes seemed abhorrent for those wanting to defend freedom of choice in such matters.
Roger Penrose sees quantum physics as the possible answer scientists have been looking for in explaining the very mystery of vitalism itself within the universe.
Penrose proposed that human thought, although rationally sound, is not necessarily algorithmic. His conclusion that thought was non-computational was based on Gödel’s theorem that states that there is no consistent formal system in which every mathematical truth is provable. Penrose held that the only non-computational process in the universe was the randomness of quantum mechanics. According to Penrose, the current scientific theories are simply inadequate in their explanation of the non-algorithmic nature of quantum mechanics. He proposed that at the cellular level, the microtubules of the cells of the brain were sensitive to quantum gravity. The link between conscious thought and quantum mechanics is made in the neurons, which are responsible for cognition and consciousness. The conclusion is that ‘microtubules, because they have one foot in quantum mechanics and the other in conscious thought, provide a window for non-algorithmicity in human cognition.’ (Grush)
With the possibility that quantum effects might indeed trigger much larger activities within the brain, some people have expressed the hope that, in such circumstances, quantum indeterminacy might be what provides an opening for the mind to influence the physical brain. Here, a dualist viewpoint would be likely to be adopted, either explicitly or implicitly. Perhaps the ‘free will’ of an ‘external mind’ might be able to influence the quantum choices that actually result from such non-deterministic processes."
(Penrose,1994, p.349)
cheers
K
ulli
14th June 2011, 15:48
Whatever anyone experiences, science will always lag behind. The wilder speculations are not welcome in scientific circles, although all scientific breakthroughs would not have happened without 'some' speculating.
So here is the explanation that convinces me the most: (partly mine, partly gleaned from other stuff I read)
We are the fingertips of God, or Prime creative Source.
We are probing into all the darkest corners of an infinite space, and our experiences and pain and joy feed back or signal back to the source all the data necessary to assess what's up with the creation....and if it's still in order and balance....
physical and non physical multiverses included.
RedeZra
14th June 2011, 16:05
Isaac Newton had a friend who did not believe in God
Once Newton was sitting by the side of a marvelous model of the solar system when his friend entered and asked...
"Isaac who made this ?"
"Nobody"
"Isaac I am asking about this wonderful model. Who made this ?"
"I told you no one"
"Are you kidding me ?"
"My dear friend if no one is necessary to create the solar system then why do you think that someone is necessary to make a trivial model of it ?"
Warlock
14th June 2011, 17:07
Isaac Newton had a friend who did not believe in God
Once Newton was sitting by the side of a marvelous model of the solar system when his friend entered and asked...
"Isaac who made this ?"
"Nobody"
"Isaac I am asking about this wonderful model. Who made this ?"
"I told you no one"
"Are you kidding me ?"
"My dear friend if no one is necessary to create the solar system then why do you think that someone is necessary to make a trivial model of it ?"
Ha, I love it.
Warlock
Tony
14th June 2011, 21:24
Well, what we are supposed to be, are beings of conscious light.
So what are we doing here?
Could it be that we are here through ignorance?
At the moment we maybe unconscious beings,
not realising we are conscious beings.
Perhaps, because we believe every thing to be real,
we see things as real. When things are not real.
By the way, I still think New Age, sounds like New World Odour!
Tony
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