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blake
5th May 2011, 19:24
Hello Mr. Ryan. Miss. Eneila, and All,


It is human nature to protect oneself; and I believe in most cases that is a good thing. However, in trying to protect himself, and Miss Enelia, by being so controlling over what is said and not said on the forum, it is my opinion that Mr. Ryan, in this case, is doing more harm than good. I don’t understand, nor am I privy to the background politics between the leaderships of Nexus and Avalon, nor do I care to be. But I have to say from my view as a reader on Avalon, censoring, in the way of closing the Healing Choir thread was a mistake, politically and spiritually.

I am just a reader on this wonderful forum that has allowed me many hours of enjoyment and learning adventures. I am not part of the inner circle where all this latest drama of banned members and censored posts have appeared to ignite from. Unfortunately these ugly dramas stemming from the core leaderships are flowing daily before many of the readers, such as myself. Of course, we all have the choice not to read the threads; but as humans curiosity many times gets the better of us. But more than that, I believe Avalonians want to walk their talk. I believe we especially would like the leadership of this forum to model walking their talk. I believe Avalonians want peace in disagreements. I think it is important to many of us to have that concept modeled on this site by how we conduct ourselves, and how our leadership makes decisions. Is the teaching that it is “okay to disagree” and still show respect and friendship just talk? How is that concept being played out during this present Avalonian/ Nexus drama?

Bill Ryan started Avalon, with the help, I think, of Kerry Cassidy. Then they split, and I believe Mr. Ryan got sole custody of Avalon. No one can deny that Bill Ryan is the Captain of Avalon and a very respected and admired one at that. But has Avalon grown into an entity of its own that Mr. Ryan wasn’t prepared for? Could that be part of the drama of why he appears to control so tightly of what is said or not said?


I like Bill Ryan, at least the persona that he offers the public during his interviews and mostly with his interactions online. I like most of the work that he does. I don’t know what Mr. Ryan is like in his private life. But I do know that many on this forum do contribute to the support of his work, obviously admiring what he does. I can not possibly see, how a few people, disgruntled or not, involved with personal disagreements and dramas with Mr. Ryan could ever destroy what he has built up over the past few years, unless Mr. Ryan falls off the path of integrity for long periods of time. We all have egos. We all make stupid choices. We all try to cover our mistakes. We all say things we shouldn’t especially in the heat of hurt or anger. But on the scale of truth is Bill Ryan a bad guy no matter what the background politics are? I don’t think so. I think Mr. Ryan is a good man no matter what the politics concerning the Nexus/ Avalon drama are. But I do think he is causing injury to Avalon that could easily be avoided if he stepped back and took a few deep breaths and had faith in those who do support him.

I am wondering if it is possible that it could very well be beneficial for all if Mr. Ryan considered looking at where the forum is today, and ponder if he needs to make some adjustments in his perspective of it. Because, perhaps, his forum has, in manner of speaking, come of age, and that this over censoring by the leadership, in their enthusiasm and loyalty in protecting him, may, in the larger picture be doing more harm than good to the forum as well as to himself.

It is obvious that those on the forum of Avalon support Mr. Ryan in his work. But I also wonder if many Avalonians expect more than just good work from him? Could it be that Avalonians expects Mr. Ryan to mostly walk his talk? And with the closing of the Healing Choir thread, could it be interpreted that Mr. Ryan isn’t walking his talk very well, in this instance?

For me, it was a shock to the intellect and the soul when the moderators of Avalon, as what I define as a spiritual forum, of all threads, closed a thread full of loving thoughts just because of its connections to Nexus. I don’t believe Nexus is that threatening to Mr. Ryan, Miss Enelia, or Avalon. But if Nexus unknowingly is, I believe the Avalon leadership just walked right into their nasty little plans by closing this loving thread. But I don’t believe Nexus is evil. I read through the website and it is as honorable as I hope Avalon is. But to me the closing of the Healing Choir thread, sent a strong and yet sad message that Avalon does not walk its talk. Egos are in the way, and rationalizations appear to have displace common sense. This is not good.

We all rationalize? Sometimes we will give words new definitions to rationalize what we are doing to make it look prettier or nicer than it actually is. You are all familiar with the “talking points” that the government gives to the media, to avoid the core truth. No matter what was going on behind the scenes, in my opinion, unless it’s a matter of life and death, you don’t stop good thoughts from building into something wonderful and uplifting; and personally I think many Avalonians needed a thread of pure goodness.
Yet, the Avalonian moderators stopped it in its track, because a few Nexusites said a few bad things about Mr Ryan and Miss Enelia? It has be more than that?

Life can be hard. And relationships, and personal politics, let alone world politics can be crushing to the soul. A little laughter and a little love can make a huge difference in turning things around. During times of anger, and mistrust, a healthy person takes a step back, breathes deeply, or goes on vacation to get a better perspective of how far they might be straying from their talk. It seems to me that Mr. Ryan hasn’t appeared to have given himself that luxury and as a result he chose to closed down some beautiful energy that many of us needed.

Nexus is not evil. It has the same people with the same strengths, frailties, and every other human issue that the people at Avalon have. Nexus, in my opinion is as wonderful as Avalon. And if I were to be banned from Avalon, I would immediately join that forum if they would have me. But I am not one capable of managing participation in two different forums at one time.

I can see that there has been a few people there who have said unkind things about Mr. Ryan and Miss Enelia; and there has been some research posted about past activities. Yet it is not splattered all over the site, in my opinion one must look for it. I have no idea whether any of it is true or not, or if it is true if there is really any great significance in it today. Life in the public eye is not easy. Who likes having their dirty laundry hung out for all to see? Who likes to be scrutinized and commented on, and constantly judged? But that is the price in society that one usually pays when going public. I have every confidence that Miss Enelia is a strong, young woman; and knows, or will soon learn how to deals with the reality of life in the public eye. I have seen evil. Evil does NOT exist at Nexus. I wish you all would bury the hatchet. I personally admire you all when I don’t feel like bashing your heads together!

It is human nature to have different opinions. It is human nature to hurt others especially when we are hurt. There are insignificant slights and then there are the deadly slights. If anyone was throwing any REAL evil, or deadly slights about, from Nexus, we would be looking at some real bond a fide damage here and not the pettiness I am observing like shutting down a thread entitled the Healing Choir.

But these are just my observations and my opinions.

Sincerely,
Mr. Davis

Dennis Leahy
5th May 2011, 20:50
...censoring, in the way of closing the Healing Choir thread was a mistake, politically and spiritually.
Closing a thread is not censoring. I don't care how many times you say it is, it isn't. Nothing was removed from the Healing Choir thread (except, I believe an email address that should not have been in there.) The only "censoring" at Avalon has been the editing of ad hominem attacks, and it is a judgment call that each moderator makes. Your opinion of what is a political and spiritual mistake is noted. I closed the thread. Not Bill. Not Inelia.

I'll admit to being personally offended by having spurious public accusations, lies, smears, and innuendo spread about a couple of people I admire, and yes, it's true, you're more likely to hear from me if you attack my friends than in attacking me. So it's true, that I personally stepped forward and tried to counterbalance some of the dark cloud of lies by turning on the light. If that is your definition of "controlling' then hang it on me, not Bill and Inelia. If you want to regurgitate back the groupthink that you have gleaned elsewhere, and now declare it as the truth, I'll hang that on you. You are responsible for not repeating the nasty sentiments and lies of others, no matter how polite your demeanor, Mr. Davis. I think you very politely discount all of the negativity coming from Nexus, and amplify and distort activities at Avalon using words and phrases like "controlling", "censoring", "drama of banned members and censored posts", "ugly dramas stemming from the core leaderships", "he appears to control so tightly of what is said or not said", "Avalon does not walk its talk. Egos are in the way", "over censoring by the leadership", "a few Nexusites said a few bad things about Mr Ryan and Miss Enelia", "pettiness".

But when you speak of Nexus: "different opinions", "Nexus is not evil.", "Evil does NOT exist at Nexus"

This is highly unbalanced, Mr. Davis, and I believe very disingenuous for you to create a thread on Avalon, titled "The Public Eye", yet one more thread regarding what is written on Nexus about Bill and Inelia, when your entire essay appears to me to be a whitewash, a chance to list a laundry list of insinuations, fully excuse the behavior of the responsible handful on Nexus, and offer a conclusion that it is fair because it is all a day in the life of someone in the public eye.


I don’t know what Mr. Ryan is like in his private life. Mr. Davis, I don't know what you're like in private life. I only know you from public statements, such as the extremely violent, "feel like bashing your heads together!" <-- you see what I just did there, Mr Davis? I took a statement out of context, amplified it, made it sinister and evil, and painted you as someone awful, someone so violent even in public that it would be utterly frightening to see what you would do in your private life. You don't need to worry, Mr. Davis, no one will associate Mr. Davis with violence because, well, it's not true. Well, I should say I don't really know if it is not true, but I hope it is not true. Well, there I go again, using carefully planted "word-bombs" to assassinate your character with insinuation. Luckily, everyone knows what I'm doing here, and luckily, you're not in the public eye.

"Who likes having their dirty laundry hung out for all to see?" Shouldn't that read, "Who likes a vindictive person pulling something out of context, giving it false context, and declaring it as 'dirty laundry' in public?"

Dennis

Eikoor21
5th May 2011, 21:03
Very well put together Dennis
You clearly illustrate what your trying to explain to Mr. Davis

blake
5th May 2011, 22:42
...censoring, in the way of closing the Healing Choir thread was a mistake, politically and spiritually.
Closing a thread is not censoring. I don't care how many times you say it is, it isn't. Nothing was removed from the Healing Choir thread (except, I believe an email address that should not have been in there.) The only "censoring" at Avalon has been the editing of ad hominem attacks, and it is a judgment call that each moderator makes. Your opinion of what is a political and spiritual mistake is noted. I closed the thread. Not Bill. Not Inelia.

I'll admit to being personally offended by having spurious public accusations, lies, smears, and innuendo spread about a couple of people I admire, and yes, it's true, you're more likely to hear from me if you attack my friends than in attacking me. So it's true, that I personally stepped forward and tried to counterbalance some of the dark cloud of lies by turning on the light. If that is your definition of "controlling' then hang it on me, not Bill and Inelia. If you want to regurgitate back the groupthink that you have gleaned elsewhere, and now declare it as the truth, I'll hang that on you. You are responsible for not repeating the nasty sentiments and lies of others, no matter how polite your demeanor, Mr. Davis. I think you very politely discount all of the negativity coming from Nexus, and amplify and distort activities at Avalon using words and phrases like "controlling", "censoring", "drama of banned members and censored posts", "ugly dramas stemming from the core leaderships", "he appears to control so tightly of what is said or not said", "Avalon does not walk its talk. Egos are in the way", "over censoring by the leadership", "a few Nexusites said a few bad things about Mr Ryan and Miss Enelia", "pettiness".

But when you speak of Nexus: "different opinions", "Nexus is not evil.", "Evil does NOT exist at Nexus"

This is highly unbalanced, Mr. Davis, and I believe very disingenuous for you to create a thread on Avalon, titled "The Public Eye", yet one more thread regarding what is written on Nexus about Bill and Inelia, when your entire essay appears to me to be a whitewash, a chance to list a laundry list of insinuations, fully excuse the behavior of the responsible handful on Nexus, and offer a conclusion that it is fair because it is all a day in the life of someone in the public eye.


I don’t know what Mr. Ryan is like in his private life. Mr. Davis, I don't know what you're like in private life. I only know you from public statements, such as the extremely violent, "feel like bashing your heads together!" <-- you see what I just did there, Mr Davis? I took a statement out of context, amplified it, made it sinister and evil, and painted you as someone awful, someone so violent even in public that it would be utterly frightening to see what you would do in your private life. You don't need to worry, Mr. Davis, no one will associate Mr. Davis with violence because, well, it's not true. Well, I should say I don't really know if it is not true, but I hope it is not true. Well, there I go again, using carefully planted "word-bombs" to assassinate your character with insinuation. Luckily, everyone knows what I'm doing here, and luckily, you're not in the public eye.

"Who likes having their dirty laundry hung out for all to see?" Shouldn't that read, "Who likes a vindictive person pulling something out of context, giving it false context, and declaring it as 'dirty laundry' in public?"

Dennis

Hello Mr. Leahy,

Naturally, many times people see things from different perspectives because their environment, experiences, knowledge base, morals, etc are different. Although different perspectives shouldn’t be the cause for disharmony, it sadly often is.

As an Avalon moderator, you, Mr. Leahy, obviously have much more information on the history of what I will call,” the feud” between Nexus and Avalon leaderships, as well as all that is going on behind the scenes. The average Avalon reader, such as myself does not have all that history and information. Therefore, people like me can only make comments or come to conclusions based on what we read, or from the action taken by the moderators.

Try to imagine what the action of the abrupt closing of such a lovely thread looked like to the average reader, not involved or privy to the inside story of the “feud”?

On a side note, I would be curious to know how much thought you put into your decision and of the likely consequences of abruptly closing down such a loving thread?


You claim that I am white washing the situation. How would I know? I am not privy to what you know. I am not involved. How could I white wash, what I know little of? I only have your actions of closing a beautiful thread, and a few posts that I read about the situation.

A great therapist always steps into the shoes of their clients to see the world through their eyes. Perhaps the Avalon moderators could make better decisions by looking at a thread through the eyes of the average Avalon reader who knows little if anything about the politics of the present feud.

In hindsight, do you really think your actions of closing that thread down helped Avalon as a community or do you think you your actions just enlarged the circle of ugliness to the average reader?

Mr. Leahy we do have two different perspectives going here. I honestly gave you my observations. I think perhaps it would not be a waste of time to ponder on them.

I can understand why you do not want to admit that closing a thread is not a type of censorship. But you judged the thread, and you suppressed the thread from continuing on when obviously the people of Avalon were not finished with it. You were asked not to close it. You were asked to reopen it. Yet you closed it and kept it closed, if that is not a form of censorship, I would be interested in knowing what your definition of censorship is?

Sincerely,
Mr. Davis

Dennis Leahy
5th May 2011, 23:07
For someone who "does not have all that history and information" (which is all public, here and at Nexus), you have certainly amassed quite a bit of the negative energy from a handful of Nexus members, and laid it out, brick by brick, forming the road you seem to wish the "average reader", like yourself, to go down. If you sincerely have no idea of the history, and admit to having no idea what you're talking about here, then please alert one of the moderators or administrators, and let them know you posted a large cluster of inferences and insinuations without the proper knowledge to back it up, that you now recognize that this was, in effect, causing unintended harm to Mr. Bill Ryan (whom I note you mention that you "like"), and you want someone to please remove the thread from the forum (sparing the hapless mod or admin the burden of accusations of censorship.)

Thank you, Mr. Davis.

Dennis

greybeard
5th May 2011, 23:19
Respectfully Dennis Joined 14th of January this year so was not privy to inside information before that time.
Does that matter-- not really.

He and other Mods are doing as best they can.

My hobby was sailing and there is an expression-- Its easy to stand on the beach and criticize

I was asked three times to be a mod last year, Im glad I was not the least tempted, Im my own person totally and being a mod requires a team unity and therefore responsibility.
Im responsible for my actions before God-- no other.

Bill and Kerry together and separately have contribute much and deserve respect for this.
This forum is free and I appreciate that.

I joined the original Avalon many years ago and have maintained with many contributions from others the "Enlightenment: Ego what is it, how to transcend" thread for about three years.
On average 1000 people a month view that thread-- it is the longest running thread here.
So there must be a need for it.
I am saying that as fact-- nothing else-- I many have read more about spiritual matters than some-- that does not make me special in any way.

I learn just the same as others from my mistakes
If I do make a mistake or miss inform I put my hand up and say I got it wrong-- no big deal.

As I advise often Put no head above your own

Now getting to the point
Avalon now is different from 6 month ago
Neither better nor worse (whatever that is) its just different.

Its like a magazine to me--- I read articles, that interest me-- I throw out the sports section un-read
Same here, I go where I want-- sometimes I interact-- most times I dont.

Some are beating a dead horse here - just let it be.

In the Charles era, threads were left to run on and on, now just perhaps we have gone too far the other way but it will all settle.

To err is human to forgive Divine

Chris

Mike
5th May 2011, 23:52
Re: Beating a dead horse - and beating, and beating, and beating, and beating, and beating, and beating..................................

perhaps we need a "groan" option next to the "thanks" button. sorry blake, it's not a personal knock on you. it's just that this topic has finally become deadening.

blake
6th May 2011, 00:16
For someone who "does not have all that history and information" (which is all public, here and at Nexus), you have certainly amassed quite a bit of the negative energy from a handful of Nexus members, and laid it out, brick by brick, forming the road you seem to wish the "average reader", like yourself, to go down. If you sincerely have no idea of the history, and admit to having no idea what you're talking about here, then please alert one of the moderators or administrators, and let them know you posted a large cluster of inferences and insinuations without the proper knowledge to back it up, that you now recognize that this was, in effect, causing unintended harm to Mr. Bill Ryan (whom I note you mention that you "like"), and you want someone to please remove the thread from the forum (sparing the hapless mod or admin the burden of accusations of censorship.)

Thank you, Mr. Davis.

Dennis

Hello Mr. Leahy, you seem so angry?

I did not need a Nexus member’s post or opinion to observe the closing down of the beautiful Healing Choir thread. Your action, in closing that thread, when you were asked not to. provided me with that direct information to form the conclusion that I did. In my opinion, that action was not a proud moment in Avalon history.

All my conclusions are based on my direct observations of the Avalon moderators, and what I read in posts. If I have read it all and know everything you do, then “the feud”, in my opinion, doesn’t appear to me to have much meat to it. Therefore I am even more puzzled by the action of taking down the Healing Choir thread as well as your seemingly belligerent attitude towards my honest opinions. Or have I misread you?

Is this not a spiritual forum? Does integrity, honesty and a willingness to forgive have any weighted value here? Or does the “feud” of who is right, and who is wrong, and who said what when angry or hurt have more weighted value than our spiritual connectedness with each other? Is the harm of the original action the greater harm, or is the greater harm the endless feud?
Did I misunderstand Mr. Ryan’s thread about him asking for forgiveness in the thought of letting another die, even though it was just for a fleeting second, while mountain climbing thirty years ago? Did his friend understand the suffering Mr. Ryan was experiencing and immediately took away Mr. Ryan’s guilt that he had lived with so long, by telling him to forgive himself because in the end Mr Ryan saved the man’s life? How is this feud, in the spiritual sense, any different?

Someone did something, or said something, and it led to this feud. Who is going to be the more spiritually evolved being, and begin to put an end to all this emotional hurt that is kept alive by insecure attitudes?

Being the spiritual being you are, do you not want to extend a hand by stretching your perspective, and understanding of a very unfortunate series of reactions? Or does your humanness get in the way?

I really have no idea why Mr. Ryan is apparently still so ticked off, or why you too seem to be so aggravated? Perhaps we have different rhythms? However, if you care to explain more, I will be happy to read what you have to say.

Sincerely,
Mr. Davis

Dennis Leahy
6th May 2011, 00:55
Mr. Davis, are you reading anger into my posts? Perhaps this is your anger coming out, your own unique way? Possibly passive-aggressive? I think the term is "transference" when you take what is inside you and attribute it to someone else. A good exercise it to imagine the other person smiling while you read their words.

Please, very carefully read what I have already said to you, and please recognize when you are either beating a dead horse, or blowing on embers, trying to ignite a blaze.

This isn't a "feud" - your use of that word again indicates that you failed to figure out what was going on before even thinking about posting (and if you had spent that time, and if it actually matters to you that you are further smearing Bill Ryan's reputation, you would have hit the "Cancel" button and not posted at all.)


I really have no idea why Mr. Ryan is apparently still so ticked offTell you what, let's make that your parting shot, OK? Bill Ryan is not a pinata for your amusement. I'll not continue this with you.

Dennis

Eikoor21
6th May 2011, 01:21
I love you guys
its ok this will pass
lets continue growing
together

Great love:o

DevilPigeon
7th May 2011, 17:42
-----

I've read what Mr Davis said, and I don't think it merited the negative response it got.

blake
8th May 2011, 10:06
-----

I've read what Mr Davis said, and I don't think it merited the negative response it got.

Hello DevilPigeon,

Thank you, DevilPigeon, for your comment. I appreciated your post.

Sincerely,

Mr. Davis

K626
8th May 2011, 13:03
This is my idea of Mr Blake :p

XLPNnYQ7DEY

K626
8th May 2011, 13:11
Deleted by K.

blake
8th May 2011, 13:22
This is my idea of Mr Blake :p

XLPNnYQ7DEY

Hello K626,

Thanks for the clip. It made me smile , but his singing voice is definitely better than mine. :)

Sincerely,

Mr. Davis