Membership on the forum

[Seikou-Kishi]

I am sick to the back teeth of the petulant complaints about members leaving, being banned or suspended from the forum. This forum's moderators and administrators have a heavy duty upon them to ensure that the forum is a healthy and focused place in which to discuss its very important topics — if that means they lose your favour, so be it; they have greater considerations.

You're all so quick to say how awful the 'censorship' is here at Avalon as soon as somebody objects to the way in which you tear it down in your posts, but Avalon is, as has so often been mentioned, not a free house or a free-for-all. This is Bill's forum and we are here in his house to share our experiences and our thoughts. If you do not like Bill or his house rules, stop bitching about them both and leave.

I can say it not more directly: if you dislike how Avalon is run, leave.

It really should show you that there is no censorship here at Avalon when you can berate it endlessly and with impunity. If you still think there's censorship here, though, you owe it to yourself to leave, and you owe it to us to leave us in peace.

[Ammit]

Oh what a rant that was...

I see it as people sorry to see friends leave here for whatever reasons, and those reasons are their personal reasons. If I see a thread that I am bored of seeing or have no interest in, I DO NOT READ IT, simple.

I can say it not more directly: if you dislike certain threads, then DO NOT READ THEM.

[Amer]

Seikou-kishi, I respect your opinion and your right to express it 100%. I for my part have never bitched I can assure you. I love reading here and learning here. But if something doesn't feel right I question it, always respectfully, I question many things, that's how I learn. I question people, their motives, their ideas, philosphies, intentions. I like to bounce off of people. I feel like I'm in a constant learning curve. I take nothing for granted.. When I was a little girl my brother used to call me "20 questions"- I would drive him nuts, the same at school, the same at university. It's me, but always respectful. I can't help feeling perhaps you started this thread because of what I wrote a short while ago in the "another member gone" thread. I did not post to upset the apple cart but simply to question in a healthy way. I'm sorry if you thought it was bitching. I can assure you it wasn't. We sit at our computers and read and write not merely words, but the thoughts coming from real people. It would be shallow not to in some small way care about these people whose words sometimes go around in our heads and resonate with us.

[Seikou-Kishi]

Oh what a rant that was...

I see it as people sorry to see friends leave here for whatever reasons, and those reasons are their personal reasons. If I see a thread that I am bored of seeing or have no interest in, I DO NOT READ IT, simple.

I can say it not more directly: if you dislike certain forums, then DO NOT READ THEM.

I can see what you did, there, and I take your point but the ideas are not symmetrical: to continue the analogy of this being Bill's house and Avalon's members as guests within his house, it would not be sufficient to say 'if you dislike how somebody treats this house, divert your gaze', while saying 'if you insist on mistreating my house, please leave'. We cannot simply neglect what is happening here.


Seikou-kishi, I respect your opinion and your right to express it 100%. I for my part have never bitched I can assure you. I love reading here and learning here. But if something doesn't feel right I question it, always respectfully, I question many things, that's how I learn. I question people, their motives, their ideas, philosphies, intentions. I like to bounce off of people. I feel like I'm in a constant learning curve. I take nothing for granted.. When I was a little girl my brother used to call me "20 questions"- I would drive him nuts, the same at school, the same at university. It's me, but always respectful. I can't help feeling perhaps you started this thread because of what I wrote a short while ago in the "another member gone" thread. I did not post to upset the apple cart but simply to question in a healthy way. I'm sorry if you thought it was bitching. I can assure you it wasn't. We sit at our computers and read and write not merely words, but the thoughts coming from real people. It would be shallow not to in some small way care about these people whose words sometimes go around in our heads and resonate with us.

You're right, Amer, and nobody here is saying that there are things that shouldn't be questioned, but when that festers from simple question-asking into a constant background whir it's surely very different. Avalon is being pecked at from within and it's only because of Avalon's great tolerance that such an infection hasn't already been flushed out. The plentiful examples of tolerance, understanding and openness at Avalon do nothing to assuage the qualms of those who consider it censored, and I can only draw the conclusion that after so long these people do not want their qualms answered or their worries assured, but that they are solely intent on perpetuating the idea that this place is a Stalinist dictatorship.

Nobody seems to appreciate more than Bill when a person takes a reasoned and measured disagreement with a post he has made; it seems to me that he looks upon it as a chance to further elucidate his meaning. People choose not to see that, though, and it's disappointing. Bill has demonstrated his patience on numerous times, but it goes unnoticed because patience is, by necessity, less obvious than impatience. I feel deeply aggrieved to watch Bill slandered by people while maintaining his dignity. I often feel he is too patient.

Bouncing ideas off people, Amer, is absolutely great and something that is done frequently here. I'm sorry that people have confused genuine discussion with what has been going on on this forum in certain quarters, but such discussion is greatly appreciated here, and it is the same who scream censorship that try to blur the distinction between what they do and such discussion.

[Ammit]

I am sure that if Bill, or the moderators did not like anything that was being posted here, they would quickly pounce on it and cure the problem.

And I hope you can see what I did, I replied to your post.
As for "it would not be sufficient to say 'if you dislike how somebody treats this house, divert your gaze".....That was not what I said,,was it!

And as for "symmetrical",,it may not have been balanced but, you knew what it meant..

[Seikou-Kishi]

You said:


If I see a thread that I am bored of seeing or have no interest in, I DO NOT READ IT, simple.

But it's more than just a case of being bored with it, and it's entirely a case of frustration at seeing certain people continually disrespecting this forum


I am sure that if Bill, or the moderators did not like anything that was being posted here, they would quickly pounce on it and cure the problem.

That's the point though, isn't it? Whenever any of the moderators or administrators step in because they don't like what is happening, its only fodder for their fires. They're creating a situation in which they cannot be opposed without further fueling their paranoid fantasies.


And as for "symmetrical",,it may not have been balanced but, you knew what it meant..

Well I confess I don't quite know what to say if even you admit you're not being balanced in your response. I am not out for confrontation and I do not want it; I want an end to all this confrontation so that Avalon can do its business without hindrance.

[Some Bloke]

If anyone wants to see (and if you don't have a strong contstitution look away) what happens without moderators ,
http://www.richplanet.net/forum/index.php?action=vthread&forum=1&topic=27&page=18
have a look round , its not pretty shame it could have been a really good forum......

[Seikou-Kishi]

Wow that is quite something, Some Bloke

[fox.mulder]

From the intense "arguing" in this thread with the meticulous refuting of quoted points.....alot of the players here are far from that peace that brings ascension.........peace does not need to be argued or justified.............just chill....it is all that it is......


The Truth Is Out there..........

[Lost Soul]

Bill's forum. Bill's rules. Don't like it, go somewhere else. There's plenty of other forums to play at. As for me, I'm happy with Bill's rules and Bill's staff.

[TimelessDimensions]

I love walking in the forest,
I've never seen any "moderators" in nature ;)

[DeDukshyn]

I love walking in the forest,
I've never seen any "moderators" in nature ;)

But nor Trolls ... ;)

[Bill Ryan]

I love walking in the forest,
I've never seen any "moderators" in nature ;)

Depends which forest!

In the famous and unique Masai Mara (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maasai_Mara) in Kenya, the entry fee is $70 per person plus more for the vehicle. I've been there many times, and the cost is worth every penny.

There are some places where you can watch the hippos and crocs at extremely close hand - and there's a game ranger standing by (discreetly) with a very large gun. :)

In the California Park Service, in equally unique, delicate, and staggeringly beautiful habitats like Yosemite (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yosemite_National_Park) and Tuolumne (http://www.pbase.com/olybob/mono_lake_and_tuolumne_meadows), permits are required to limit the numbers of hikers so that the human impact is controlled. I'm delighted they do this.

For those of you in Australia, ask the Aboriginal Elders what damage the white men create when they permit themselves to do whatever they wish.

Planet Earth has been trashed by humans doing what they want and taking what they want without any regard for others.

This forum should be a reflection of the human race at its finest: not a reflection of the human race at its worst.


http://projectavalon.net/tuolumne_meadows.jpg

[777]

I am sick to the back teeth of the petulant complaints about members leaving, being banned or suspended from the forum. This forum's moderators and administrators have a heavy duty upon them to ensure that the forum is a healthy and focused place in which to discuss its very important topics — if that means they lose your favour, so be it; they have greater considerations.

You're all so quick to say how awful the 'censorship' is here at Avalon as soon as somebody objects to the way in which you tear it down in your posts, but Avalon is, as has so often been mentioned, not a free house or a free-for-all. This is Bill's forum and we are here in his house to share our experiences and our thoughts. If you do not like Bill or his house rules, stop bitching about them both and leave.

I can say it not more directly: if you dislike how Avalon is run, leave.

It really should show you that there is no censorship here at Avalon when you can berate it endlessly and with impunity. If you still think there's censorship here, though, you owe it to yourself to leave, and you owe it to us to leave us in peace.

Completely agree with everything above. I for one only come on this forum because I know it's of an extremely high quality and anything that isn't, either comes with a disclaimer or the poster is pushed to back it up. I've spent many years on other forums and I've whittled down my membership to just this one, purely based on the content. I find it an absolute honour to be part of Avalon which I do genuinely see as the forefront in an alternative online community.

For this to exist, the mods and admin do so much behind the scenes just so that our collective dream of changing this world can be one step closer to a reality.......and we get this free, due to their hard work and our involvement. If a user leaves because they don't like the rules, let them. The "censorship" is integral to the quality therein.

Oh and Palpatine, you are one of my favourite members here. You're intelligent, highly experienced in many fields of life and make daily fantastic contributions. I have to say with this, I think you've got it wrong. That's only my subjective opinion, take it as you may. As long as you stick around please, I'd miss you otherwise!

[Mad Hatter]

Seikou-Kishi

With respect, I have enjoyed immensely some of your intelligent, cogent and educational replies on various topics as I roam around the forum, but I must admit I find this particular purge slightly out of character.

Do you consider starting yet another thread on this subject matter a useful step in resolving the problem as you see it?

Could your viewpoint on this issue not have been appended to one of the existing threads?

You are of course always free to take your own advice...


...if you dislike how Avalon is run, leave.

Alternatively...


if you dislike certain threads, then DO NOT READ THEM.

which is more in keeping with the oft stated dictum, take what resonates and leave what doesn't.

I too have been commenting on some of these threads and aslo...


...can't help feeling perhaps you started this thread because of what I wrote a short while ago in the "another member gone" thread.

But unlike your exercise here I am attempting to suggest solutions, albeit maybe unrealistic ones. That attempt did draw the suggestion that a certain place looked good this time of year so I may have overstepped the mark and will be duly reprimanded shortly. I don't know.

Perhaps as another suggestion, which I alluded to earlier in this post, would be for the mod team to merge all those threads into the one sandbox, say a C_YA_L8R thread. Being assembled in one place we might find the positives balancing out the negatives.

Being the intelligent individual you obviously are, you must realise that the most dangerous and pernicious form of censorship is that of the 'Politically Correct' persuasion. ie People afraid to speak their mind for fear of either ridicule or being ostracised.

In fact in my view any censorship on a forum of self professed truth seekers equates to an oxymoron.



There are some places where you can watch the hippos and crocs at extremely close hand - and there's a game ranger standing by (discreetly) with a very large gun. :)

Interesting irony there... Humans part with filthy luca to gain a vicarious thrill and the wildlife stands to get shot for having there space invaded... :)


For those of you in Australia, ask the Aboriginal Elders what damage the white men create when they permit themselves to do whatever they wish.

After that ask them why the hunted the Mega Fauna into extinction and completely changed the Flora of the country using firestick farming methods.
When one points a finger at someone there always seems to be three fingers pointing back at you.

and sorry Bill but the most deliciously paradoxical irony of the lot...


This forum should be a reflection of the human race at its finest: not a reflection of the human race at its worst.

written on an a forum that has for the main part crawled around the underbelly of mankind exposing some of the worst of the worst!!

Well accounting for inflation there is my dollars worth.
PS Awesome pic. Did you get to take it?

[Calz]

:yield:

Do not most of us keep returning here in all colors, shapes, sizes and genders?

Do we not come here with a general "roadmap" of "lessons" to learn (not literal pre-destiny)?

Lastly ... is this not the time for like minded souls to band together???

Can we not find it within us to stop the splintering and (apparent) divisions that have started to appear???

Offered with humility in hopes of peace between us all :pray:

*** adding ***

Lol

It would appear what prompted me to post this has "mysteriously jumped timelines" (into another thread):

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?20169-The-sensitivity-of-language-and-people-when-describing-race-related-issues

[Seikou-Kishi]

Seikou-Kishi

With respect, I have enjoyed immensely some of your intelligent, cogent and educational replies on various topics as I roam around the forum, but I must admit I find this particular purge slightly out of character.

Do you consider starting yet another thread on this subject matter a useful step in resolving the problem as you see it?

Could your viewpoint on this issue not have been appended to one of the existing threads?

You are of course always free to take your own advice...


...if you dislike how Avalon is run, leave.

Alternatively...


if you dislike certain threads, then DO NOT READ THEM.

Mad Hatter: yes frankly, I do think it necessary, and while I don't deny that I can be a bit vitriolic in making my point, I think it stands. It seems to have become popular on this forum to talk it down and to talk about Bill as if he's some mad despot and I don't like it. You've merely repeated Ammit's point, which I responded to earlier, so I direct you to the response I gave when I first heard that frankly inadequate solution.

[Seikou-Kishi]

I think you're right, Sid, to say it is a dangerous notion to suggest we inherit the sins of our forebears

[Meadowlark]

Lord Sidious, I’ve often enjoyed your comments on the forum, although I disagree with your viewpoint on this particular thread.

I’m glad you are willing to speak your mind and agree you are not usually a troublemaker. But in this case at least, you could have made your point more tactfully. Often how we say something is just as important (if not more important) than the content of what we are saying.

You’ve made your point that you believed what he said was a racial stereotype, and Bill has addressed your point and supported his statement with evidence.

If you still disagree with him, you’d make your argument much stronger by saying why you think the evidence doesn’t apply, rather than commanding him to stand by his statements-- not many people like to be ordered to do things and usually won’t respond well to that.

Like you said, we're all fallible, and it makes things go much more smoothly when we try to admit our mistakes.

[starsmoonmtns]

I am sick to the back teeth of the petulant complaints about members leaving, being banned or suspended from the forum. This forum's moderators and administrators have a heavy duty upon them to ensure that the forum is a healthy and focused place in which to discuss its very important topics — if that means they lose your favour, so be it; they have greater considerations.

You're all so quick to say how awful the 'censorship' is here at Avalon as soon as somebody objects to the way in which you tear it down in your posts, but Avalon is, as has so often been mentioned, not a free house or a free-for-all. This is Bill's forum and we are here in his house to share our experiences and our thoughts. If you do not like Bill or his house rules, stop bitching about them both and leave.

I can say it not more directly: if you dislike how Avalon is run, leave.

It really should show you that there is no censorship here at Avalon when you can berate it endlessly and with impunity. If you still think there's censorship here, though, you owe it to yourself to leave, and you owe it to us to leave us in peace.

I have never said anything about censorship, IMHO this entire thread should never have been produced.... move on if that's how you feel.

[Seikou-Kishi]

I am sick to the back teeth of the petulant complaints about members leaving, being banned or suspended from the forum. This forum's moderators and administrators have a heavy duty upon them to ensure that the forum is a healthy and focused place in which to discuss its very important topics — if that means they lose your favour, so be it; they have greater considerations.

You're all so quick to say how awful the 'censorship' is here at Avalon as soon as somebody objects to the way in which you tear it down in your posts, but Avalon is, as has so often been mentioned, not a free house or a free-for-all. This is Bill's forum and we are here in his house to share our experiences and our thoughts. If you do not like Bill or his house rules, stop bitching about them both and leave.

I can say it not more directly: if you dislike how Avalon is run, leave.

It really should show you that there is no censorship here at Avalon when you can berate it endlessly and with impunity. If you still think there's censorship here, though, you owe it to yourself to leave, and you owe it to us to leave us in peace.

I have never said anything about censorship, IMHO this entire thread should never have been produced.... move on if that's how you feel.

I have not pointed fingers at particular people in my post, so if you feel you have been unfairly marked out you must have misunderstood. Indeed, your entire post demonstrates a regrettable lack of perspicacity. "Move on if that's how you feel". Your point has already been dealt with. I can only assume you haven't read the thread or you would have seen that it has been dealt with not once already but twice.

Edit:

To all:

If my first post in this thread seems confrontational I must apologise. It is not my purpose to cause disharmony and I regret any that might arise as a result of my post. I am not here to make enemies, and no matter how heated our discussions may get I will never consider any of you to be my enemies. No resolution to this conflict would please me more than for those who feel there is too much censorship here at Avalon to take a moment to reflect and realise that their judgements may have been erroneous and to quietly move on (with us, if they feel able).

I hope we at Avalon never see the day in which people are so entrenched in an argument that they cannot rationally evaluate another's opinion. I hope that people do not feel a need to argue their side simply because it is there side, or to fight their corner because they feel they've been pushed into it. So I'd say to all who believe we have no freedom of speech or opinion here: is that what you truly believe? Do you really believe that the moderators do not have a duty to maintain the quality here and to modify certain posts or to ask them to be modified?

None of us is perfect. We can all sometimes behave in ways which at other times we might be ashamed of. Let's not give these small things greater prominence than they deserve. Let's not, when we argue, become intractable.

[starsmoonmtns]

Oh what a rant that was...

I see it as people sorry to see friends leave here for whatever reasons, and those reasons are their personal reasons. If I see a thread that I am bored of seeing or have no interest in, I DO NOT READ IT, simple.

I can say it not more directly: if you dislike certain threads, then DO NOT READ THEM.

Or maybe they should have never been written... keep it to yourself is one suggestion.

[starsmoonmtns]

I am sick to the back teeth of the petulant complaints about members leaving, being banned or suspended from the forum. This forum's moderators and administrators have a heavy duty upon them to ensure that the forum is a healthy and focused place in which to discuss its very important topics — if that means they lose your favour, so be it; they have greater considerations.

You're all so quick to say how awful the 'censorship' is here at Avalon as soon as somebody objects to the way in which you tear it down in your posts, but Avalon is, as has so often been mentioned, not a free house or a free-for-all. This is Bill's forum and we are here in his house to share our experiences and our thoughts. If you do not like Bill or his house rules, stop bitching about them both and leave.

I can say it not more directly: if you dislike how Avalon is run, leave.

It really should show you that there is no censorship here at Avalon when you can berate it endlessly and with impunity. If you still think there's censorship here, though, you owe it to yourself to leave, and you owe it to us to leave us in peace.

I have never said anything about censorship, IMHO this entire thread should never have been produced.... move on if that's how you feel.

I have not pointed fingers at particular people in my post, so if you feel you have been unfairly marked out you must have misunderstood. Indeed, your entire post demonstrates a regrettable lack of perspicacity. "Move on if that's how you feel". Your point has already been dealt with. I can only assume you haven't read the thread or you would have seen that it has been dealt with not once already but twice.

You keep saying 'move on if u don't like it' but your still here.....
WTF?

[Seikou-Kishi]

I am sick to the back teeth of the petulant complaints about members leaving, being banned or suspended from the forum. This forum's moderators and administrators have a heavy duty upon them to ensure that the forum is a healthy and focused place in which to discuss its very important topics — if that means they lose your favour, so be it; they have greater considerations.

You're all so quick to say how awful the 'censorship' is here at Avalon as soon as somebody objects to the way in which you tear it down in your posts, but Avalon is, as has so often been mentioned, not a free house or a free-for-all. This is Bill's forum and we are here in his house to share our experiences and our thoughts. If you do not like Bill or his house rules, stop bitching about them both and leave.

I can say it not more directly: if you dislike how Avalon is run, leave.

It really should show you that there is no censorship here at Avalon when you can berate it endlessly and with impunity. If you still think there's censorship here, though, you owe it to yourself to leave, and you owe it to us to leave us in peace.

I have never said anything about censorship, IMHO this entire thread should never have been produced.... move on if that's how you feel.

I have not pointed fingers at particular people in my post, so if you feel you have been unfairly marked out you must have misunderstood. Indeed, your entire post demonstrates a regrettable lack of perspicacity. "Move on if that's how you feel". Your point has already been dealt with. I can only assume you haven't read the thread or you would have seen that it has been dealt with not once already but twice.

You keep saying 'move on if u don't like it' but your still here.....
WTF?

You know, I really couldn't appreciate your point until you made it so coarsely.
It is one thing to say "if you do not like this place, move on" and quite another to say "if you do not like how some people treat this place, move on."

[jack]

I am sick to the back teeth of the petulant complaints about members leaving, being banned or suspended from the forum. This forum's moderators and administrators have a heavy duty upon them to ensure that the forum is a healthy and focused place in which to discuss its very important topics — if that means they lose your favour, so be it; they have greater considerations.

You're all so quick to say how awful the 'censorship' is here at Avalon as soon as somebody objects to the way in which you tear it down in your posts, but Avalon is, as has so often been mentioned, not a free house or a free-for-all. This is Bill's forum and we are here in his house to share our experiences and our thoughts. If you do not like Bill or his house rules, stop bitching about them both and leave.

I can say it not more directly: if you dislike how Avalon is run, leave.

It really should show you that there is no censorship here at Avalon when you can berate it endlessly and with impunity. If you still think there's censorship here, though, you owe it to yourself to leave, and you owe it to us to leave us in peace.

In case anyone is looking for an alternative i suggest you take a visit to godlikeproductions forum and indulge yourself in a government controlled and sponsered free for all where all and any bit of vital information is drowned out from view by the incessant and tumultuous ramblings of tens if not hundreds of paid agents who wish to do no more then control the flow of information through chaos, anarchy and intimidation.

[Agape]

This forum or another forum, which part of substantial reality of who you are does it change , does it make you feel better to be here ?
Does it bind you to follow anybodies elses rules than your own ?

I mean, it should not and if it does it's not the right place ..but there are thousand other ways to go ..

and unless you walked one of them to be able to make your own judgement,
this internet forum or any other won't help you to grow up to sovereign being.

Internet seminars, universities and lecturing are advanced way how to share information with global community

but no, sorry, they can't mature anyone in real terms .


It became another good excuse of annonymous ignorance and pretence of not only the 'PTB' but the masses following them,
creating an illusion of truth and freedom. We can live an utopia here one way or another ,
yet , how does it change your everyday life , who really cares about who you are and what you need .


I've seen people being excited here about the illusion of freedom we seem to enjoy here ..

But who really, is granting you the privillage of freedom and opinion , would you lose it if one of us is losing .


You shouldn't. This world can't ever stand on makings of one man.



:hug:

[Tangri]

Oh what a rant that was...

I see it as people sorry to see friends leave here for whatever reasons, and those reasons are their personal reasons. If I see a thread that I am bored of seeing or have no interest in, I DO NOT READ IT, simple.

I can say it not more directly: if you dislike certain threads, then DO NOT READ THEM.

Mostly we do that. I even be affected by writer not only thread name tag

[Ilie Pandia]

----

*admin-notice* All off-topic post have been moved here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?20169-The-sensitivity-of-language-and-people-when-describing-race-related-issues)

On this thread please continue the discussion originally started by Seikou-Kishi.

:focus:

[Karma Ninja]

I think it is important to acknowledge the 'battle cries' of the people who are leaving this forum. I wish the animosity towards Bill and our moderators was not so venomous sometimes but the more venomous the more I understand the decisions.

There is something there for us to learn from. Either we can reflect on why these people are leaving and accept the decisions behind it or move on from it while learning what ails us. If one leaves it can strengthen the whole or it can weaken us. What remains will always be what was meant to be. I miss the thoughts being shared from some former members but they are no longer here so I accept their absence and hope another will fill the void.

Peace!

[loveandgratitude]

:yield:

Do not most of us keep returning here in all colors, shapes, sizes and genders?


Offered with humility in hopes of peace between us all :pray:


band together - 730373047305

[Davidallany]

When we create threads we must take care that we are acting out of love and concern for all. Whatever energy and thought we put in our intentions tend to create it's own momentum. The seed will show it's form as a tree and fruits. Sweet or bitter. All that matter is the thought and the intention it's generating.

[NinJin]

Hello All, This will be the 1st & last time anyone sees me reply to this "subject" on anyone's threads of the same "subject" as I find the discussion of it a complete waste of energy that could be used for so much more (like helping others).

Before anyone points this out, Yes, I am spending energy with great hesitation in preparing this response because I feel this "subject" has been brought up in too many threads, too many times that I'm compelled to speak my peace here once & for all.

I like Bill & have much respect for him & everything that he, Kerry, & everyone else has done on our behalf over all the years to provide a point in space-time where like-minded beings may gather, meet, & discuss information in order to help us all learn more of the truth & grow as individuals.

It has been argued many times that this is Bill's place & if you don't like it or his rules or what the moderators are doing that you are free to leave as a choice.
It has also been pointed out many times by many members of the on-going trend of arguing & disputes that appear in threads causing a sense of fighting between members (what I would certainly call heated-discussions).

In the words of Rodney King - "Can't we all just get along"
Out of respect for everyone, if you don't have something nice to say, then don't say it at all"
Constructive criticism & honest level-headed discussion &/or debate is one thing
(I support it, I welcome it), but that's not what we've been seeing on the forum lately.

It's been said: If we, the members on Avalon (& other like forums) can't get along & show a real, honest presence of good-intent & strong support of a better future for everyone through example then how can we expect everyone else that does not support a brighter future to take anything that goes on here seriously.

I want a better future for everyone, I'm willing to sacrifice everything I am to see it through & I know there are others here that feel the same way.

Please, Let's stop creating all these new threads about the same subject & if you still wish to voice an opinion on it then post to an existing thread for it.

With the timelines we are seeing & the fact that time itself seems to be compressing (although an illusion), there's too much information that can help everyone prepare that's needed to be posted instead of more threads on this -IMHO
Thanks for reading/listening & as I've said before, Let the Healing begin ..

[Davidallany]

Hello All, This will be the 1st & last time anyone sees me reply to this "subject" on anyone's threads of the same "subject" as I find the discussion of it a complete waste of energy that could be used for so much more (like helping others).

Before anyone points this out, Yes, I am spending energy with great hesitation in preparing this response because I feel this "subject" has been brought up in too many threads, too many times that I'm compelled to speak my peace here once & for all.

I like Bill & have much respect for him & everything that he, Kerry, & everyone else has done on our behalf over all the years to provide a point in space-time where like-minded beings may gather, meet, & discuss information in order to help us all learn more of the truth & grow as individuals.

It has been argued many times that this is Bill's place & if you don't like it or his rules or what the moderators are doing that you are free to leave as a choice.
It has also been pointed out many times by many members of the on-going trend of arguing & disputes that appear in threads causing a sense of fighting between members (what I would certainly call heated-discussions).

In the words of Rodney King - "Can't we all just get along"
Out of respect for everyone, if you don't have something nice to say, then don't say it at all"
Constructive criticism & honest level-headed discussion &/or debate is one thing
(I support it, I welcome it), but that's not what we've been seeing on the forum lately.

It's been said: If we, the members on Avalon (& other like forums) can't get along & show a real, honest presence of good-intent & strong support of a better future for everyone through example then how can we expect everyone else that does not support a brighter future to take anything that goes on here seriously.

I want a better future for everyone, I'm willing to sacrifice everything I am to see it through & I know there are others here that feel the same way.

Please, Let's stop creating all these new threads about the same subject & if you still wish to voice an opinion on it then post to an existing thread for it.

With the timelines we are seeing & the fact that time itself seems to be compressing (although an illusion), there's too much information that can help everyone prepare that's needed to be posted instead of more threads on this -IMHO
Thanks for reading/listening & as I've said before, Let the Healing begin ..
I agree. 100%, and thank you for the energy NinJin, May the force be with you.

[Agape]

Internet can be such a spoil killer in many ways and the only and main thing to blame is people's dishonesty .

Internet despite all it's wonderful database of information and connectivity is also total waste of time and money for one simple reason
and that is people's disability to speak truth .

You hear me well and I know what I mean .

I did not ever face this problem in my life except perhaps when I was kid and bullied by the school system and other stupids I could not defend myself from .

Since then I walked long way across cultures , mountains , different type of schooling , out to the Space and back .
From that time when I set on the path I'd not attend the type of group activities that I never wanted to take part in ,
forcing you to adapt , adjust , follow , without any interest of who you really are .

I'm allergic to it . Blame some of my life memories ..


In real life , no matter what is the topic of discussion ,
it takes few minutes to recognise who the other is about ( to me usually ).
It takes few hours maximally , or maybe few days to find out whether these two people can have sort of fruitful , intelligent , insightful relationship , communique , work together or not .

What you have on the Internet ...

people hiding behind their alter egos , life roles and avatars .
It's so easy to tell lies here with straight face as I've seen this to happen many times and basically , in most cases you have no ways to disprove the person unless you're FBI :lol: even if you perfectly know he does not speak truth .
It maybe not be straight lie , it's mostly half-truths with those who create sort of huge image , an aura of importance around them .

Truth itself may not create rainbows as far as I know, truth can be as simple as the homeless dying in the street , shivering from cold in the dark corner .

People are brought up in comfy systems of little and big lies in 'these parts of the world' , they are taught competition , cunningness , cleverness .

Their god seems to be their skills and how much money it makes because money is freedom .

This is the problem I'm facing and I conclude , many others as well .


There's an old Buddhist saying on the values of absolute and relative truths .

The ordinary everyday truth you either follow , speak or not , live or not is like a cup .
The higher truth , on universe , meaning of life and what's beyond our individual struggle is like the liquid , the content .
True, the content is more substantial than the cup .

But if the cup is cracking it can't hold the tea , and so also those who's character and mind is not purified .

You don't need methods and Scientology or any other sort of mysticism do that for you.

Just start speaking truth and living it on every possible level of your life . You will see what's to be 'clear' then .

Till people are not able to speak truth hence also trust each other ,

Internet is a waste of time , mostly .

I'm the example of what I'm saying . I had no I intentions to be on internet just for the funs sake of it , I did not exactly miss access to information or people to call friends .
I had to take this path to find others because the problematics concerning ET life is so very specific .

But it takes ages to communicate a message , the meaning of it here ,
not because I'd be so incapable but because some are not able to think , others who expect me to be someone else than I'm saying
and majority who prefers not to understand .


I feel sorry for all these people , myself included of course . I'm not a saint . But I know myself better and I did not come for a chat here ,

though that's what I'm doing now probably ..


I don't mean bad but I see the major fault with sites, testimonies and witnesses as much as all the ordinary Joes not adhering to truth .

It's harming the cause . Its harming our hearts and minds and everything .


I wish this is the last time I repeat it but I've offered the truth here to you , Bill and everyone else with keen interest in what the truth is .


I can't complain of any bad responses or harmful reactions , whatever has happened here ..in the Internet world ..

it did not touch your reality though . There seem to be thousands of good hearted folks here but not one with an idea and knowledge and straight practical take on life .



We all can handle interneting but is that all we are capable of .


And the whole mistrust and prejudice , can anyone kindly speak straight on this all ?

Sure I'm sentient , sensitive being but I do not tolerate emotional , practical or other sort of lies in my life .

I am not a photocopy of anyone you know .

I'm not who you think I'm most probably and do you know yourself well enough to face what I had to face ?



It's probably all but academical debate and if so it belongs to the entertainment category more than the truth one .


I have seen some of chat level behind the forum being extremely low .

Heights and lows we all have ..that's for sure ..


:angel:

[toothpick]

Please , If i might say something as a fairly new member.
It makes my heart sag a little to see all the animosity lately.
I have so enjoyed listening to and learning from some of the most forward thinking, inteligent, open minded, soul searching, loving and caring bunch of individuals all of them in the same community. All of whom have oodles more wisdom about the pit falls of the journey were all on, and which fork in the road to take. All this wisdom comes from years of experience talking and debating with like minded people in some kind of forum. Along with all ths wisdom comes teaching abilities whether you know you have them or not. Well, I,m here to tell you members that I can not find the words to convey to all my new friends just how much I have learnt from just reading what you guys post. The best I have ever came across.
Sorry, of being so sappy.
I can,t help it. I,m just a lot happier and much more knowlegable about my journey since I found this community.
Thank-you Avalon members past and present for all you have taught this old soul. (fool etc.).
Looking forward to learning much more.

Toothpick

[TimelessDimensions]

I love walking in the forest,
I've never seen any "moderators" in nature ;)

Depends which forest!

In the famous and unique Masai Mara (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maasai_Mara) in Kenya, the entry fee is $70 per person plus more for the vehicle. I've been there many times, and the cost is worth every penny.

There are some places where you can watch the hippos and crocs at extremely close hand - and there's a game ranger standing by (discreetly) with a very large gun. :)

In the California Park Service, in equally unique, delicate, and staggeringly beautiful habitats like Yosemite (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yosemite_National_Park) and Tuolumne (http://www.pbase.com/olybob/mono_lake_and_tuolumne_meadows), permits are required to limit the numbers of hikers so that the human impact is controlled. I'm delighted they do this.

For those of you in Australia, ask the Aboriginal Elders what damage the white men create when they permit themselves to do whatever they wish.

Planet Earth has been trashed by humans doing what they want and taking what they want without any regard for others.

This forum should be a reflection of the human race at its finest: not a reflection of the human race at its worst.


http://projectavalon.net/tuolumne_meadows.jpg

Yes I also agree with the idea of man as a protector of nature,
but do the rangers stop the animals from playing, mating, dueling, and eating each other?

[TimelessDimensions]

It makes my heart sag a little to see all the animosity lately.

Did you ever learn anything from someone who agrees with you all the time?

[Lord Sidious]

It makes my heart sag a little to see all the animosity lately.

Did you ever learn anything from someone who agrees with you all the time?

Interesting, feels like deja vu. :cool:

[Bill Ryan]

Yes I also agree with the idea of man as a protector of nature,
but do the rangers stop the animals from playing, mating, dueling, and eating each other?

Not at all (usually)!

It's people that are the problem, because people do not always regulate themselves.

[Davidallany]

We are fortunate to be accepted to be part of the Avalon community, I meditate before posting anything, to make sure that what I post is positive and nurturing to the community, it's the least way in which to thank Bill for his tremendous efforts in building this warm shelter. We can act from the heart, we can act from Intelligence or we can act from the ego. Unchecked ego can cause problems.

[Flash]

Yes I also agree with the idea of man as a protector of nature,
but do the rangers stop the animals from playing, mating, dueling, and eating each other?

Not at all (usually)!

It's people that are the problem, because people do not always regulate themselves.

When one lives in the heart, there is no need for self regulation

When one - and everyone - talk with the heart, there is no conflicts

When one - and everyone - act through the heart, there is no losses, there is only accomplishments

No one will ever regulate himself if it is within unfulfilling conditions
Today, in this world, conditions are not often geared for the growth of the true human
Therefore regulations are imposed, by those that do not have enough self worth to regulate in the first place (PTB)
And then, unfulfilled humans are asked to self regulate themselves within false parameters, destroying them

When one knows his own heart, he helps others discovering theirs

So that self regulation become a thing of the past.

Hopefully Bill this forum is geared in this direction, for everyone involved, let be the example on this planet, through the web tentacules that links everybody from all continents
Self regulation needs will disappears as soon as the heart is implemented

IMHO of course.

[Davidallany]

His Holiness the 17th Karmapa on the heart, very inspirational and heart warming.
OkKhI6-t40w