The sensitivity of language and people when describing race-related issues

[Teakai]

Would you like me to eat the food you ordered for you too?
Part of the problem is that some of us won't think for ourselves, this thread is proof.
You are asking me questions I have answered.
If you have a problem with me/what I am doing, then that is ok, but for the love of life itself, think.
That is all that you will have to save you and yours.
And this isn't just aimed at you Teakai, it is for all of us.
The second part of your post is a good point, hence me wanting to put that part up for discussion.
I would think that if you think the issues the forum and members face are not real, then why did one forum become three?
Why are people even now contemplating leaving?

If you wouldn’t mind, that would be helpful :)

I seriously haven’t found the answer to my question and it was real simple to answer it and just be done with it – but maybe you couldn’t.

I’m not terribly worried about saving me and mine – we already booked seats on this tour before we got here – I’m just along for the ride che sera sera and all that.

About people leaving, my first guess would be that they take things wa-a-a-ay too personally and/or the moderators can get a bit too easy with the power button.

If this is some type of sh*t fight I’ve just walked into the middle of, just say so and I’ll be done with it.








I read ALL your words and I still fail to see your issue of contention. Is what Bill said untrue or true? Are you offended by the truth of it, perhaps?

I'm not interested in helping or defending anything but the truth. I don't play mind games - they bore me.

No thanks, that is taking the thread backwards.
I am trying to move forward.
Sorry, but that is going to bog us down in opinions on something we have moved past.

Has it moved forward, then?
I missed that part.
;)

[Lord Sidious]

How to approach ultra-orthodox Israelite ...


http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110509/lf_nm_life/us_israel_kosher_phones

Yiddish cell phone launches in Israel

Israel's kosher cellular phone market has a new model, a device with a Yiddish interface to help devout Jews combine tradition with modern technology.

Hundreds of thousands of mobile phones, popularly dubbed kosher because they block access to services frowned upon by ultra-Orthodox rabbis, have been operating in the Jewish state for years.

Last month, Israel's second largest mobile provider, Partner introduced what it hailed as the world's first Yiddish cell phone, manufactured by Alcatel-Lucent.

Marc Seelenfreund, CEO of Israeli Accel Telecom which imports and distributes mobile phones to all Israeli operators, had a special team of translators work for months to develop an interface entirely in Yiddish.

Yiddish, a mixture of medieval German and Hebrew, was the spoken language of millions of European Jews for centuries, but it is now spoken mostly by elderly Jews and in ultra-Orthodox communities.

Yiddish words such as chutzpah, schmaltz or schlep, may have entered the English language, but Seelenfreund said ultra-Orthodox Jews would appreciate terms like "outgoing call," "ringtone" and "vibrate" translated into Yiddish.

Seelenfreund said the market for Kosher phones was substantial, estimating there are up to 400,000 users in Israel and another 500,000 in the United States.

NO INTERNET

While handsets have become ever more sophisticated, offering increasingly high-tech features, kosher cell phones have no text messaging capabilities, Internet access or camera and block calls to sex lines.

Concerns about erotic phone services and forbidden text messaging between members of the opposite sex prompted leaders of Israel's ultra-Orthodox community to set up a rabbinical committee on Internet and cell phone use several years ago.

The words "kosher" and "approved by the rabbinical committee for telecommunications" appear on the screen when a kosher cell phone is turned on.

"There are many problems with today's phones, many temptations," said Rabbi Baruch Shraga, a member of the committee.

"One can reach very immodest places on the Internet and people will write in a text message lewd things which they would not dare say aloud. Some laws prohibit hearing a woman sing, so ringtones are also restricted," Shraga said.

Ultra-Orthodox Jews are believed to make up about 8 to 10 percent of the population of 7.7 million in Israel.

"We sell thousands of Kosher cell phones a month which also offer special features like a Jewish holiday calendar and Hassidic ringtones," said Estie Rozen, a spokeswoman for Cellcom, Israel's largest mobile operator.




The answer : You can't ...


:becky:

They are on their own paths like all of us.
It is when their path is forced over others that problems occur.





Would you like me to eat the food you ordered for you too?
Part of the problem is that some of us won't think for ourselves, this thread is proof.
You are asking me questions I have answered.
If you have a problem with me/what I am doing, then that is ok, but for the love of life itself, think.
That is all that you will have to save you and yours.
And this isn't just aimed at you Teakai, it is for all of us.
The second part of your post is a good point, hence me wanting to put that part up for discussion.
I would think that if you think the issues the forum and members face are not real, then why did one forum become three?
Why are people even now contemplating leaving?

If you wouldn’t mind, that would be helpful :)

I seriously haven’t found the answer to my question and it was real simple to answer it and just be done with it – but maybe you couldn’t.

I’m not terribly worried about saving me and mine – we already booked seats on this tour before we got here – I’m just along for the ride che sera sera and all that.

About people leaving, my first guess would be that they take things wa-a-a-ay too personally and/or the moderators can get a bit too easy with the power button.

If this is some type of sh*t fight I’ve just walked into the middle of, just say so and I’ll be done with it.








I read ALL your words and I still fail to see your issue of contention. Is what Bill said untrue or true? Are you offended by the truth of it, perhaps?

I'm not interested in helping or defending anything but the truth. I don't play mind games - they bore me.

No thanks, that is taking the thread backwards.
I am trying to move forward.
Sorry, but that is going to bog us down in opinions on something we have moved past.

Has it moved forward, then?
I missed that part.
;)

I will answer your question as a sign of goodwill, but I don't want to go over and over this, ok?
This started with a comment bill made that I felt was a racist statement.
It is not true, from my perspective.
As things developed and I thought about it, I realised this was the perfect opportunity to pull another wormtongue thread deal on the forum.
The forum has some division in it even now, the concept was let's lance the boil, see what comes out, deal with it and then keep moving along.
United, with a common purpose.

There is a ****fight going on, but this thread isn't it, it is designed by me to help to end this.

And yes, it has moved on, from me seat looking at my lcd at least.

And for your benefit, I am not hostile to you, more frustrated.

[Teakai]

I will answer your question as a sign of goodwill, but I don't want to go over and over this, ok?
This started with a comment bill made that I felt was a racist statement.
It is not true, from my perspective.
As things developed and I thought about it, I realised this was the perfect opportunity to pull another wormtongue thread deal on the forum.
The forum has some division in it even now, the concept was let's lance the boil, see what comes out, deal with it and then keep moving along.
United, with a common purpose.

There is a ****fight going on, but this thread isn't it, it is designed by me to help to end this.

And yes, it has moved on, from me seat looking at my lcd at least.

And for your benefit, I am not hostile to you, more frustrated.

No worries, M'lord - I just feel the same way I always do about you. I loves ya.

Just to say, thanks for the answer - but your perception of it being a racist comment is merely your perception. Unless you can put forth some logical reason as to how it was racist it is an ego judgment.
If you're looking to the bigger picture , and you say you are - your ego is going to be one big hindrance to you. It will tell you lies.

[SEAM]

"Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something." — Plato

[DevilPigeon]

However, giving thanks prematurely leaves the risk that the issue is sidestepped.

Is the issue about...race?

Or is race just the cover for something deeper?

It's evolved into something deeper. To me, race isn't the issue, not for one moment do I think it was a racist remark. The issue is that people tend to use phrases without a second thought, why that is I don't know, maybe as a species we become accustomed and de-tuned/de-sensitised to certain things and just accept things as they are "because it's the way things are".

Laying my cards on the table, there are 2 fundamental issues for me:


Bill's flexibility
This whole thread could have been wound up long ago simply by Bill acknowledging that his choice of words could have been better. Bill has stated on record (post/video, can't recall) that when he thinks he's right he never backs down, that's not always the best course of action... Is it a flaw? I think so. Is he human? Yes.

Sycophantic behaviour by some
This probably won't gain me any friends, but it's something I'm seeing... A general thing, nothing really specific. There seems to be a lot of "defend Bill" type posts at all costs, as if 1. he needs defending so vehemently (I'm sure he can defend himself quite well!); and 2. what he says is gospel.



Point 1 is as a result of this thread, point 2 is a more general thing....

I mean no disrespect to anyone, and if I've crossed a line, offended anyone - or if indeed I can be proved wrong - then I'll hold my hands up and apologise. But until all the issues that all members have are in the open and available for scrutiny, then we'll just keep treading water. And let's face it, this is nuts - there are bigger issues that need addressing head-on, that will only be effective if we're pulling the same way.

[Belle]

There are so many brilliant minds here at Avalon that I was quite intimidated as a new member. The level of intellectual discussion was so high and the questions spot on. That's all well and good, but we can intellectualize forever yet change nothing if we don't roll up our sleeves and do the hard work necessary to change the programming and thus change the paradigm.

All we know and have learned all of our lives came from the ones who control this planet. Who taught you how to read?...do math?...write? Think. We have been placed in a box of programmed thinking since the day we were born. We get all tied up in minutia and miss the bigger picture. Do you think that is by accident?

Think about your own personal reaction to this thread. Are you into the "he said, she said" box? Are you into the defend and protect mode? Do you even see or understand what Rob is trying to do here or is the "divide and conquer" program so deeply ingrained it's impossible to see past the need to take sides?

We call ourselves "awakened" to the workings of society/civilization...yet all we do is discuss and rehash over and over again. Real change comes from identifying each piece of the programming and making the personal changes necessary to get out of the box imo.

[Teakai]

It's evolved into something deeper. To me, race isn't the issue, not for one moment do I think it was a racist remark. The issue is that people tend to use phrases without a second thought, why that is I don't know, maybe as a species we become accustomed and de-tuned/de-sensitised to certain things and just accept things as they are "because it's the way things are".

Laying my cards on the table, there are 2 fundamental issues for me:


Bill's flexibility
This whole thread could have been wound up long ago simply by Bill acknowledging that his choice of words could have been better. Bill has stated on record (post/video, can't recall) that when he thinks he's right he never backs down, that's not always the best course of action... Is it a flaw? I think so. Is he human? Yes.

Sycophantic behaviour by some
This probably won't gain me any friends, but it's something I'm seeing... A general thing, nothing really specific. There seems to be a lot of "defend Bill" type posts at all costs, as if 1. he needs defending so vehemently (I'm sure he can defend himself quite well!); and 2. what he says is gospel.



Point 1 is as a result of this thread, point 2 is a more general thing....

I mean no disrespect to anyone, and if I've crossed a line, offended anyone - or if indeed I can be proved wrong - then I'll hold my hands up and apologise. But until all the issues that all members have are in the open and available for scrutiny, then we'll just keep treading water. And let's face it, this is nuts - there are bigger issues that need addressing head-on, that will only be effective if we're pulling the same way.

Devilpigeon - where ever and whenever ego is involved there will always be issues about how things are seen to be done or not done. The only thing you can do is to take care of yourself in that regard. Remove your own ego from the picture and the ego of others will not have an impact on you.

And don't worry about offending anyone (ego gets offended) - "to thine ownself be true and it must follow as the night the day, thou shalt not then be false to any man." W.S. :)

[East Sun]

I never did understand anyone demanding an apology.
If someone is forced into apologizing is it actually a real apology?

I can even see someone refusing to make an apology just because someone demanded it.

Because, if someone feels that they should apologize, they will.
Just my 2cents.

What you say is true, unless you are trying to point out an issue and trying to get the one you want the apology from to think about the why.

Language is not perfect, so we are often misunderstood. If your intention is good and someone thinks not is it your fault?
I think you realize Bill's intentions were right and fair, so then, as I/many would do, say ok and walk away.
To give the benefit of the doubt to the other person is imo, to do the right thing.

[Lord Sidious]

I never did understand anyone demanding an apology.
If someone is forced into apologizing is it actually a real apology?

I can even see someone refusing to make an apology just because someone demanded it.

Because, if someone feels that they should apologize, they will.
Just my 2cents.

What you say is true, unless you are trying to point out an issue and trying to get the one you want the apology from to think about the why.

Language is not perfect, so we are often misunderstood. If your intention is good and someone thinks not is it your fault?
I think you realize Bill's intentions were right and fair, so then, as I/many would do, say ok and walk away.
To give the benefit of the doubt to the other person is imo, to do the right thing.

Thanks for your input, I have already posted on this in the thread.

[oceanz]

As the Aboriginal race was not static who knows how they would've evolved if Australia wasn't colonialised and which race did or has the potential to do more damage to the environment ---> maybe not so much to do with a "race" but more to do with "greed".

I just wanted to add to this:

That it has always been human nature to interfere - to bring new ideas, new religions, values and beliefs and try to impose them on others regardless of race and whether this is willingly or unwillingly done.

Perhaps its not even limited to human nature to interfere.

Perhaps Earth was suppose to be a the control sample of an experiement and yet how many sightings of UFO's , abductions etc and letting us know of their presence have there been?

Maybe it is to see how we look after our precious resources of the earth and people even when we have the best intentions in mind.

Interfering with the intention of helping each other and accepting each other is something the human race is still learning...

[Noble Hops]

Can we just sum up this thread by saying that some people have more of a white guilt complex than others? :bounce:

[Lord Sidious]

Can we just sum up this thread by saying that some people have more of a white guilt complex than others? :bounce:

We could, but that would be only 5% of the story as it is now.

[Mad Hatter]

Mornin all, Mad Hatter dons his sceptic hat...

Ethnic cleansing, affirmative action battles, immigration restrictions'all place race at center stage in contemporary life. Race is so fundamental to discussions of poverty, education, crime, music, sports that, whether we be racist or anti-racist, we rarely question its reality. Yet recent scientific evidence suggests that the idea of race is a biological myth, as outdated as the widely held medieval belief that the sun revolved around the earth.Anthropologists, biologists and geneticists have increasingly found that, biologically speaking, there is no such thing as "race." Modern science is decoding the genetic puzzle of DNA and human variation - and finding that skin color really is only skin deep.

source http://www.racematters.org/racethepowerofanillusion.htm and of course many many others.

So it seems that science has / will be moving on from this set of labels. Does anyone else find usage of the term 'race' ironic because of it's competitive connotations and all that comes with that. As some wag put it 'Science progresses one funeral at a time' so perhaps if we where all to hack that subconcious meme by only using the term human family in our language instead, a change for the better may come about that bit quicker...

As for those who still seem to think the rather emmotive film Rabbit Proof fence is actual history, well yes it is if you subscribe to the Robert Manne historian camp. I would respectfully suggest that you expand your views somewhat and read something from the opposing Keith Windschuttle camp. At least you might then have a better map of the terrain in order to make a decision about where to place the peg for anchoring your emotion on this subject.

One thing I must say that completely stunned me about Aboriginal culture was their ability, without a written history, to devleop a method of preventing the effects of interbreeding over 40,000 years within such a small gene pool. Perhaps lessons some Royal Familys need to heed??;)

Cheers

[Noble Hops]

Can we just sum up this thread by saying that some people have more of a white guilt complex than others? :bounce:

We could, but that would be only 5% of the story as it is now.

Sid, I think your finger slipped and missed typing the nine in front of that five. :cool:

[Lord Sidious]

Can we just sum up this thread by saying that some people have more of a white guilt complex than others? :bounce:

We could, but that would be only 5% of the story as it is now.

Sid, I think your finger slipped and missed typing the nine in front of that five. :cool:

No, that was how this started, but I have moved this on now.
Or I have tried to.

[mondaze]

the fundamental issue is a linguistic one. We have ceased to use language with care and accuracy. This is down to metanymic thinking. By the way, I'm not blaming anyone for this. We are constantly bombarded in all media with metanymic shorthand, and most have not been taught to discern between metanym and reality. I realise that this is very dull and may seem semantic but until people begin to understand how language and logic is being debased by the parroting of phrases without breaking them down, then the further away from truth and reality our culture will slip. example? weapons of mass destruction... which then becomes simply wmd's. Over and over again the Bush monkeys spewed the weapons of mass destruction mantra across the media until it became a sigil which provided a reason for them to evoke their shock and awe... i could go on ad infinitum. if any one is interested this long and hard to read essay
http://74.125.155.132/scholar?q=cache:ckyHzU0f_SsJ:scholar.google.com/+baudrillard+simulacra+and+simulacrum&hl=en&as_sdt=0,5&as_vis=1
will open your eyes.

[g.k.r]

thanks lord sid that you did think about things after too, im not here to defend people, only reason i commented was because i think the point was taken incorectly, im glad that the thread has turned out the way it has too, theres lots to discuss on everything and if someone can unite everyone then it can only do good, anyway, debate is essential really, just hope people dont take too many things to heart and as long as everyone respects each other will be a good outcome:).. thanks:)

[Decibellistics]

Race is not real.

It is a social construct and form of institutional violence. There is culture....but there really is no such thing as race. Our DNA is about 99% identical. You have to go waaaaaaaaaaaay out of the way on the human genome to find the gene that makes you look a certain way.

Unfortunately we live in a world where reparations and affirmative action and things of the such exist.....are these things a bad idea? At face value no, its a good thing. But when people are being placed in areas of work or what have you based on the color of their skin and not on the merit of their abilities then we run into a problem of sorts......We are continuing the spectrum of the social construct. No matter whether it is a good thing or bad.

So in theory, we have to break down every social construct that has been presented to us that causes any form of institutional violence......

The fact of the matter is, Icke is right in saying that we are the human race.

Not Black, Caucasian, Hispanic, Asian, or what have you.

I think the point to be made here, is that color no matter what..........should not influence a statement. Yes there has been targeted violence between certain groups and nationalities of different color. But in general you have to take the color card out of the picture.

These people have nothing other than their own self interest for whatever agenda they are trying to accomplish.

I thought this was a good general overview.

# Glibness and Superficial Charm

# Manipulative and Conning
They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.

# Grandiose Sense of Self
Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."

# Pathological Lying
Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.

# Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.

# Shallow Emotions
When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.

# Incapacity for Love

# Need for Stimulation
Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.

# Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.

# Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.

# Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency
Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.

# Irresponsibility/Unreliability
Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.

# Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity
Promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts.

# Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle
Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future, poor work ethic but exploits others effectively.

# Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility
Changes their image as needed to avoid prosecution. Changes life story readily.

So in reality......this is what we are having to battle. Narcissistic Sociopaths that are really good con artists.

Race has nothing to do with any of what we are describing, and yet we have been taught to think that it is race that is the reason why these things happen.

I think language is extremely faulty in even attempting to describe any form of race related issue. Because we have been taught that race exists, which is does not, but we continue to hold up the concept with the language we use to describe it. Therefore one has to completely let go of the concept of race......

If you think of terms of race, take whatever racist slur you can think of.....and substitute it for ****ty sociopathic sick human.

Race is absolutely non-existent. They just want you to think it does so they can keep you separated.

A white suburb is just as much of a ghetto as the inner city, unfortunately one ghetto is way nicer than the other.

We often times look at the majority of world conflict being caused by the white devil lol. But look at Sudan, and look at Gaza, and look at Nazi Germany, and so on. At face value it is eugenics and racism.....but if you look below the facade, It has to deal with sociopathic tendencies, insecurity, self interest, power, control, resources.

I dunno....I'm rambling now......bye bye.

It's time to let go of this faulty thinking....and that goes for all of it. We don't have any room for this **** any longer.

[mondaze]

Race is not real.

It is a social construct and form of institutional violence. There is culture....but there really is no such thing as race. Our DNA is about 99% identical. You have to go waaaaaaaaaaaay out of the way on the human genome to find the gene that makes you look a certain way.

Unfortunately we live in a world where reparations and affirmative action and things of the such exist.....are these things a bad idea? At face value no, its a good thing. But when people are being placed in areas of work or what have you based on the color of their skin and not on the merit of their abilities then we run into a problem of sorts......We are continuing the spectrum of the social construct. No matter whether it is a good thing or bad.

So in theory, we have to break down every social construct that has been presented to us that causes any form of institutional violence......

The fact of the matter is, Icke is right in saying that we are the human race.

Not Black, Caucasian, Hispanic, Asian, or what have you.

I think the point to be made here, is that color no matter what..........should not influence a statement. Yes there has been targeted violence between certain groups and nationalities of different color. But in general you have to take the color card out of the picture.

These people have nothing other than their own self interest for whatever agenda they are trying to accomplish.

I thought this was a good general overview.

# Glibness and Superficial Charm

# Manipulative and Conning
They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.

# Grandiose Sense of Self
Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."

# Pathological Lying
Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.

# Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.

# Shallow Emotions
When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.

# Incapacity for Love

# Need for Stimulation
Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.

# Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.

# Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.

# Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency
Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.

# Irresponsibility/Unreliability
Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.

# Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity
Promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts.

# Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle
Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future, poor work ethic but exploits others effectively.

# Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility
Changes their image as needed to avoid prosecution. Changes life story readily.

So in reality......this is what we are having to battle. Narcissistic Sociopaths that are really good con artists.

Race has nothing to do with any of what we are describing, and yet we have been taught to think that it is race that is the reason why these things happen.

I think language is extremely faulty in even attempting to describe any form of race related issue. Because we have been taught that race exists, which is does not, but we continue to hold up the concept with the language we use to describe it. Therefore one has to completely let go of the concept of race......

If you think of terms of race, take whatever racist slur you can think of.....and substitute it for ****ty sociopathic sick human.

Race is absolutely non-existent. They just want you to think it does so they can keep you separated.

A white suburb is just as much of a ghetto as the inner city, unfortunately one ghetto is way nicer than the other.

We often times look at the majority of world conflict being caused by the white devil lol. But look at Sudan, and look at Gaza, and look at Nazi Germany, and so on. At face value it is eugenics and racism.....but if you look below the facade, It has to deal with sociopathic tendencies, insecurity, self interest, power, control, resources.

I dunno....I'm rambling now......bye bye.
a 2nd daniel say I.... misquote from merchant of venice... (another time racial slander) wisdom from one so young, makes me have some hope for the future.

[Decibellistics]

Thanks mondaze......

It's tricky, I certainly am not getting to hopeful, and at the same time I am......Herein lies the problem......you can say the same thing 8 billion different ways, mean the exact same thing each time......and only a few people are going to be able to understand concept that is embedded within the language.

Which means that nobody will ever be able to get the message across in a single sentence, let alone an entire book.

This shows the faultiness of language. Because the phrases, and metaphors, and interesting nuances of language are unable to be understood universally. Which also points towards our separation from unity and one another......
The only thing you can do is plant seeds, and hopefully an experience arises that finally allows that seed to germinate, and then maybe that one individual will understand what you meant.

This is an individual process.....you create your own reality.

[K626]

Thanks mondaze......

It's tricky, I certainly am not getting to hopeful, and at the same time I am......Herein lies the problem......you can say the same thing 8 billion different ways, mean the exact same thing each time......and only a few people are going to be able to understand concept that is embedded within the language.

Which means that nobody will ever be able to get the message across in a single sentence, let alone an entire book.

This shows the faultiness of language. Because the phrases, and metaphors, and interesting nuances of language are unable to be understood universally. Which also points towards our separation from unity and one another......
The only thing you can do is plant seeds, and hopefully an experience arises that finally allows that seed to germinate, and then maybe that one individual will understand what you meant.

This is an individual process.....you create your own reality.

Great post Deci. Excellent reading.

I can't stress enough how much race is premium tool for the PTB to divide and conquer consciousness and fraternity.

cheers

K

[kersley]

Erm, my family are white australians, no?
And no, I don't need to justify my beliefs to you.
Or Bill, or anyone.
Whether I am right or wrong is very subjective.
I would challenge you to find anything I have said on this forum that could be said to be racist and ask the moderation staff if anything like that was removed.


Do you dare me to? Am i that ignorant ?....

[NancyV]

"Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something." — Plato

My favorite tarot card is the Fool. "The Fool can represent the desire for rebirth, or making a new start to life, but with the proviso that the future path is not mapped out. The Fool is Nothing and Everything. It is the Empty set that contains all within it. The Fool is associated with fertility and the primal energy of Spring with the connotations of birth, rebirth, and transformation. As a strategy, the Fool is all about avoiding the common path that everyone treads. It is finding new viewpoints, new ideas, shocking concepts, beliefs, or views. The Fool represents crazy wisdom that shocks the listener into new states of consciousness."

It seems to me like the Fool card might be a good match for Lord Sidious also. Like the Fool I will express my viewpoint and of course we all have our unique views.

The urge to "unite" may seem to be a noble endeavor, but I contend that division is a natural state AND the perceived differences within the divisions are also a continuum. (a coherent whole characterized as a collection, sequence or progression of values or elements varying by minute degrees. "good" and "bad" (light and dark) stand at opposite ends of a continuum.") So what we often perceive as dividing is just a minute difference in the continuum, the coherent whole.

Everything divides, cells divide continuously. Division is natural and ongoing. The Source divides as it sends itself into the creation and division is the natural ebb and flow of life on every level of the creation. Yet we are still part of the Source as we are a part of everything we have done and everyone we have interacted with. To not divide would be to stagnate, in fact we can't NOT divide.

This is partially why I also consider natural racism (as opposed to learned hatred of another race) to be another process that is normal in this world. It is a survival trait for all animal species. It comes from being cautious of "other", either another species or a variety of your own species that is different and possibly a danger to your survival. Instead of racism we could call it otherism. Nature designed us to survive and being in a body, we are vulnerable to the body being killed or hurt. Those who are "other", not like us, cause us to be naturally suspicious because we don't know what kind of a threat they could be or even IF they are a threat to our physical survival.

Racism or Otherism has been with us since this world began. Tribes are always suspicious of or cautious of other tribes, even if they all look alike. If they look markedly different, maybe a different skin pigmentation, they are even more suspicious or cautious. Thus we have racism. Differences exist. Denial of differences seems to me to be a denial of reality. Animals kill other animals or are very cautious of them if they don't know them, if they are not a part of their herd, flock, group. A murder of crows kills other birds and will even attack small animals. (maybe that's why they're called a "murder" instead of a flock). So are they racist? No, they are just being natural Otherists, as are humans. They are surviving using their natural instincts.

I see no need for Camelot, Avalon and Nexus to be united as one website or with one outlook. Dividing into other websites was a natural process. Emotional reactions to that are each person's choice. As we reach higher vibrational frequencies we will unite completely when we merge and become more whole. We cannot erase what look like and feel like divisions while in our physical bodies yet we still seem to aspire to this impossible task. We innately know or remember the joys of unification and think we should achieve it here in the physical. One can promote the concept that we are not or should not be divided here on earth but that would be a denial of reality.

We are always divided in the Creation AND concurrently united in the continuum.

[Decibellistics]

Agreed, but when the differences are constructed so that they are seen as a negative trait, it causes all sorts of problems that we can see today.

Biology is one thing, but stuff that has been made up by people isn't really real.............it has just been reinforced so much into making us think it is real.

So within that statement.....yes I am denying reality. Because I ain't from round these parts....and I choose not to involve myself in a reality that is based in thinking something is real when it really isn't.

The art of mind control.
We have reached a point in time where we no longer have to worry about surviving per say. The technological advances we have achieved guarantee our survival. But the time has shifted from survival to control.....and now it must shift from control to collaboration. Because without people collaborating and working together, we are ultimately ****ed.

So we have to be willing to let go of these traditional forms of viewing the world and move into a quantum esque realization that far exceeds our understanding of the absolute unified connection we have to each other, the cosmos, the air we breathe, and the vibrations around us.

[New Dawn]

I've not read every single page, but come on guys, no drama - we've got Eastenders for that, have we not? Avalon need to work together, otherwise this is not as an important arena as it should be, is it!.

I of course have my opinion too, but its just one of many, and there's more important issues at present, isn't there, so lets just look at it this way -

I think everyone here adding to this thread means well, but we disagree - it happens everywhere. Right or wrong (which is in the eye of the beholder), we all are trying to make the world a better place, and are all probably here because we are the few that can be bothered to care after having our eyes opened to a new reality, and as tired as I am of repeating myself, I hope at least one of you takes in what I'm saying to make it worth something! In short: WE are the change, Lets do it, and lets do it now, together :)

If we have to put a few differences aside, its worth it for the prize of the bigger picture, and the fact that we all are in this together, like it or not, and you should like it :)

In the same way a comedian can talk about things that some may call racist jokes (if you start censoring a joke, the punchline does not work), we should do the same. If the comedians intent is good, the joke is ok, right? For me it is anyway.

I'm part Greek, I've heard my fair share of Greek jokes, most of them are quite funny actually, so I laugh, because I know the intent is good, same with other jokes related to race - I'll laugh if its funny, and not bad natured in intent.

We have to stop being scared to speak in case something is considered to be a negative race comment. Why would anyone here have a problem with race? If you do, why the hell are you here? Come back when you've entered adulthood. But I doubt anyone here is, so lets talk freely, one living being to another.

What do you all think eh? Sounds simple doesn't it!

SORT OF off topic:

Many people have tried to sit me down at tables with Turkish people to see what happens. I had one (now ex) mate who told a girl I'd never date her because she was Turkish lol. First thing I always do when stupid things like this happen is hug them and have a chat with them. They usually go away wondering what happened. I can't do the whole 'you invaded my land' thing - wrong, we gotta bury past beefs, and move forward together. The only way we're going to stop focusing on our difference is if we all get off our high horse (and don't worry, I may be Greek, but there's no army in my high horse, nor is my horse a gift)

Eric Cartman would call me a 'God damn hippie', wouldn't he haha!!

[Deborah (ahamkara)]

Sometimes it is just as dangerous to take offense as to give offense.

People determined to be angry will always find reason. Those unable to examine the innate fear of "the other" or of what is different (real or imagined), will always respond out of that fear. As always, the work lies within, and the change manifests without. Namaste.

[Lord Sidious]

Erm, my family are white australians, no?
And no, I don't need to justify my beliefs to you.
Or Bill, or anyone.
Whether I am right or wrong is very subjective.
I would challenge you to find anything I have said on this forum that could be said to be racist and ask the moderation staff if anything like that was removed.


Do you dare me to? Am i that ignorant ?....

You can if you want, but that is passed.
This thread has moved on.
Let me ask you this, what plans do you have to survive the cataclysm?



I've not read every single page, but come on guys, no drama - we've got Eastenders for that, have we not? Avalon need to work together, otherwise this is not as an important arena as it should be, is it!.

Thanks for that, I agree 110%, but, why not include camelot AND nexus?
We all want to survive, no?

[Amer]

Is the issue about...race?

Or is race just the cover for something deeper?

It's evolved into something deeper.

There is a ****fight going on, but this thread isn't it, it is designed by me to help to end this.

The environment is going to be devastated, who really cares who did what?
Who cares why they did it?
The population WILL be reduced down to a small number and not that far away.
What are YOU going to do to get through to the other side with those you care about?

You have five to ten years more.


Can I ask who or what your source of information is for you to come to such a conclusion ???


Atticus.

And so it would appear in the end Rob- and correct me if I'm wrong- the deeper issue upon us is not in the debate about race and sensitivity to language per se.
It is not about Bill and yet it is.
It is not about the Camelot/Avalon/Nexus splits and yet it is.
You were offended in the beginning but seized on the momentum/attention to focus us on a perceived cancer among us that few really comprehend and more importantly few want to acknowledge.
However the acknowledgement and healing of this perceived cancer is to be instrumental if not vital in preparing us for a future catastrophic event that will launch itself upon us in five to ten years.
And you have been privy to this via Atticus.

And now you would like for us to acknowledge and work through the perceived malignancy, but arriving first by ourselves in the actual identification of it?
I am firing to the wind here? Is it just me or is there something a tad more ominous afoot?

[Lord Sidious]

Is the issue about...race?

Or is race just the cover for something deeper?

It's evolved into something deeper.

There is a ****fight going on, but this thread isn't it, it is designed by me to help to end this.

The environment is going to be devastated, who really cares who did what?
Who cares why they did it?
The population WILL be reduced down to a small number and not that far away.
What are YOU going to do to get through to the other side with those you care about?

You have five to ten years more.


Can I ask who or what your source of information is for you to come to such a conclusion ???


Atticus.

And so it would appear in the end Rob- and correct me if I'm wrong- the deeper issue upon us is not in the debate about race and sensitivity to language per se.
It is not about Bill and yet it is.
It is not about the Camelot/Avalon/Nexus splits and yet it is.
You were offended in the beginning but seized on the momentum/attention to focus us on a perceived cancer among us that few really comprehend and more importantly few want to acknowledge.
However the acknowledgement and healing of this perceived cancer is to be instrumental if not vital in preparing us for a future catastrophic event that will launch itself upon us in five to ten years.
And you have been privy to this via Atticus.

And now you would like for us to acknowledge and work through the perceived malignancy, but arriving first by ourselves in the actual identification of it?
I am firing to the wind here? Is it just me or is there something a tad more ominous afoot?

You are reading, thinking and extrapolating correctly.
Well done.
Thanks.

[Amer]

Would Decibillistics be firing in the right direction with:

But the time has shifted from survival to control.....and now it must shift from control to collaboration. Because without people collaborating and working together, we are ultimately ****ed.


For some reason control is ringing in my head with a capital C. Is it a big part of the equation?

[New Dawn]

I've not read every single page, but come on guys, no drama - we've got Eastenders for that, have we not? Avalon need to work together, otherwise this is not as an important arena as it should be, is it!.



Thanks for that, I agree 110%, but, why not include camelot AND nexus?
We all want to survive, no?


Certainly, just because I choose to be here, I still extend my arm to those on 'cousin' forums. I'm not too familiar with Nexus, though I did a little browsing. I am a member of Camelot forum too, although I tend to feel of this place as my first click on the net, each to their own, but none of these forums have to be rivals - our goal is the same :)

Is that fair to say? I think it is.

[Sebastion]

Methinks it's time I made my contribution to this thread and perhaps a greater understanding as well. This subject and idea has been a boon to mankind more than likely from the beginning. It can be resolved and solved but not with the same mindset and thinking that created it in the first place. It's high time to up the game, as it were. This entire paradigm that we have created is based upon and stems from what can only be called social consciousness. Social consciousness is simply a program which tells you how you should feel, be, etc, depending on the social situation you find yourself in, complete with behavior modification guidelines, to be accepted by the crowd or the culture you find yourself in. There are many who have an innate awareness within them of that which is referred to as the higher self or as I will call it, the authentic self/consciousness. Some refer to it as the soul mind/source, etc. It is that Source/Authentic consciousness which creates to experience itself on an unlimited basis. It is unlimited mind, consciousness pure.

Somehow, arriving in 3d, we find ourselves saddled with a limited mind containing a reptilian brain at its core. Lower mind has now usurped authentic consciousness to the point of almost complete amnesia of its existence. But guess what? Behind the scenes your authentic consciousness is still creating from thoughts and beliefs you are generating from limited mind, whether you are aware of it or not! This is truth itself. Perhaps it is time now to begin to think outside of the box by seeking access to that which is unlimited within each and all. There are many ways to do this, yet perhaps the best way is your own unique way, according to your own personal self evidence. Follow your own personal self evidence. That which is authentic higher mind/soul/source will provide a way if you have the will/desire and the intent to know for yourself. The keys which unlock the doors of all understanding are on your side of the door!

[Amer]

That you believe there is something inherently wrong among us to be rectified is one discourse Rob.
That you are drawing into the conundrum Atticus is an entirely different one.
I don't know if I can go down that road with you.

[Lord Sidious]

I've not read every single page, but come on guys, no drama - we've got Eastenders for that, have we not? Avalon need to work together, otherwise this is not as an important arena as it should be, is it!.



Thanks for that, I agree 110%, but, why not include camelot AND nexus?
We all want to survive, no?


Certainly, just because I choose to be here, I still extend my arm to those on 'cousin' forums. I'm not too familiar with Nexus, though I did a little browsing. I am a member of Camelot forum too, although I tend to feel of this place as my first click on the net, each to their own, but none of these forums have to be rivals - our goal is the same :)

Is that fair to say? I think it is.

You got it nugget, it is fair.
We are all on the same train, in different carriages.


That you believe there is something inherently wrong among us to be rectified is one discourse Rob.
That you are drawing into the conundrum Atticus is an entirely different one.
I don't know if I can go down that road with you.

Why is that?
You can PM me if you want, I am curious to find out what you mean.

[DeDukshyn]

How's this all going? making any progress with the point you were trying to make? Sorry for almost derailing your "plan" way back there, but the example you used was a little weak (but the "best" you'd get from Bill as he is a good communicator), this could have been better with a better example IMHO. But as the logic in some of my early posts in this thread indicate, there is a way to communicate vague things properly, understand the intentions of the sender, and get "resolution" from the situation - when they are not completely obvious. These better ways are not obvious (or even possible) to most at all though, because of our conditioning on communication - and it looks the traditional "ways" are what you were trying to work through here. I don't have time to go through all the last 10 pages or so to see the linear progress, but it was a tough sell to begin with IMO.

[Lord Sidious]

How's this all going? making any progress with the point you were trying to make? Sorry for almost derailing your "plan" way back there, but the example you used was a little weak (but the "best" you'd get from Bill as he is a good communicator), this could have been better with a better example IMHO. But as the logic in some of my early posts in this thread indicate, there is a way to communicate vague things properly, understand the intentions of the sender, and get "resolution" from the situation - when they are not completely obvious. These better ways are not obvious (or even possible) to most at all though, because of our conditioning on communication - and it looks the traditional "ways" are what you were trying to work through here. I don't have time to go through all the last 10 pages or so to see the linear progress, but it was a tough sell to begin with IMO.

Remember, this evolved, I didn't set out with that intention.
Plus, you may not get the context as I didn't explain my intent and a required outcome to you, did I?
No need to apologise although I appreciate your intent and offer.

[DeDukshyn]

How's this all going? making any progress with the point you were trying to make? Sorry for almost derailing your "plan" way back there, but the example you used was a little weak (but the "best" you'd get from Bill as he is a good communicator), this could have been better with a better example IMHO. But as the logic in some of my early posts in this thread indicate, there is a way to communicate vague things properly, understand the intentions of the sender, and get "resolution" from the situation - when they are not completely obvious. These better ways are not obvious (or even possible) to most at all though, because of our conditioning on communication - and it looks the traditional "ways" are what you were trying to work through here. I don't have time to go through all the last 10 pages or so to see the linear progress, but it was a tough sell to begin with IMO.

Remember, this evolved, I didn't set out with that intention.
Plus, you may not get the context as I didn't explain my intent and a required outcome to you, did I?
No need to apologise although I appreciate your intent and offer.

You intent was indicated; no idea what your required outcome is though ... all seems a little specific to me, my mind works in "systems" and "philosophies" so maybe I'm just not getting it. Obviously, your intent is help put to rest the "at odds-edness" between here and Nexus, by pointing out how easy it may be to misunderstand someone, and if that can be something we can all be made to agree upon, you may consider your task complete? So you can put that back on Bill, and make him (and others) see what you believe are misunderstandings. Correct me if I'm wrong but without reading the last 10 pages (very poor sample, with large margin of error - I know) it's what appears to me...

[Lord Sidious]

How's this all going? making any progress with the point you were trying to make? Sorry for almost derailing your "plan" way back there, but the example you used was a little weak (but the "best" you'd get from Bill as he is a good communicator), this could have been better with a better example IMHO. But as the logic in some of my early posts in this thread indicate, there is a way to communicate vague things properly, understand the intentions of the sender, and get "resolution" from the situation - when they are not completely obvious. These better ways are not obvious (or even possible) to most at all though, because of our conditioning on communication - and it looks the traditional "ways" are what you were trying to work through here. I don't have time to go through all the last 10 pages or so to see the linear progress, but it was a tough sell to begin with IMO.

Remember, this evolved, I didn't set out with that intention.
Plus, you may not get the context as I didn't explain my intent and a required outcome to you, did I?
No need to apologise although I appreciate your intent and offer.

You intent was indicated; no idea what your required outcome is though ... all seems a little specific to me, my mind works in "systems" and "philosophies" so maybe I'm just not getting it. Obviously, your intent is help put to rest the "at odds-edness" between here and Nexus, by pointing out how easy it may be to misunderstand someone, and if that can be something we can all be made to agree upon, you may consider your task complete? So you can put that back on Bill, and make him (and others) see what you believe are misunderstandings. Correct me if I'm wrong but without reading the last 10 pages (very poor sample, with large margin of error - I know) it's what appears to me...

Read this one http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?20169-The-sensitivity-of-language-and-people-when-describing-race-related-issues&p=215665&viewfull=1#post215665
That is exactly down to a tee.



Thanks for pointing out I had the wrong link, dunno how I did that.

[ThePythonicCow]

Read this one http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?p=215687#post215687
That is exactly down to a tee.That is a three line post of Amer's. If you intended to inform by linking to it, you did not succeed, at least for this reader. Perhaps I should eat more carrots?

[K626]

K had won many battles and spread the word across the dark lands and on his return to the Haupstadt he was greeted by large jubilant crowds in the streets. There was expectation and high spirits and music across the city. The Mayor and the holy men came to K and with excitement directed him to the center where even more crowds danced with joy and happiness. Although he was tired and saddle weary and needed a beer he showed courtesy.

There right in the center of the main Platz, rising above the crowd was a huge golden effigy of K and the priests and the leaders looked mighty pleased with themselves and begged him to stand next to it and give it his blessing. The sun sparkled onto the statue as if cleansing it with a new light, it beamed in magnificence and craft.

K rode upto the statue and as he did the crowd hushed and nervous looks were shared for K drew his longsword and it is said the sun blinked and the sky grew dark. A great anger rose up in K and his horse was unsteady and rose up as if for battle.

One holy man ran forward, bowing and heistant with fear in his eyes.

"What is it Lord K of Batticus? What tempers you so? Tell us!

K looked across the now silent crowd and slowly spoke and his voice was oily and dark.

"I would better have found it in my heart to spare one life than gain such a kingdom".

Peace

K

[Amenjo]

Read this one http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?p=215687#post215687
That is exactly down to a tee.That is a three line post of Amer's. If you intended to inform by linking to it, you did not succeed, at least for this reader. Perhaps I should eat more carrots?

I think the Lords just created a time loop on this Thread it links back to the beginning!

Hmmmm.

Love and Truth,

Amenjo

[DeDukshyn]

How's this all going? making any progress with the point you were trying to make? Sorry for almost derailing your "plan" way back there, but the example you used was a little weak (but the "best" you'd get from Bill as he is a good communicator), this could have been better with a better example IMHO. But as the logic in some of my early posts in this thread indicate, there is a way to communicate vague things properly, understand the intentions of the sender, and get "resolution" from the situation - when they are not completely obvious. These better ways are not obvious (or even possible) to most at all though, because of our conditioning on communication - and it looks the traditional "ways" are what you were trying to work through here. I don't have time to go through all the last 10 pages or so to see the linear progress, but it was a tough sell to begin with IMO.

Remember, this evolved, I didn't set out with that intention.
Plus, you may not get the context as I didn't explain my intent and a required outcome to you, did I?
No need to apologise although I appreciate your intent and offer.

You intent was indicated; no idea what your required outcome is though ... all seems a little specific to me, my mind works in "systems" and "philosophies" so maybe I'm just not getting it. Obviously, your intent is help put to rest the "at odds-edness" between here and Nexus, by pointing out how easy it may be to misunderstand someone, and if that can be something we can all be made to agree upon, you may consider your task complete? So you can put that back on Bill, and make him (and others) see what you believe are misunderstandings. Correct me if I'm wrong but without reading the last 10 pages (very poor sample, with large margin of error - I know) it's what appears to me...

Read this one http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?p=215687#post215687
That is exactly down to a tee.

There's a distinction that needs to be made in regards to that post -- and this is always the big question (that concept is nothing new to me - I learned all the fallacies of human communication in a grueling 30 hour contraversial course called the LandMark Forum, where we didn't just learn it we had it drilled into us, then we had to practice it by fixing the major issues in our lives with the new corrected way of communicating so we could see how easy communication really is if done correctly)

The distinction is this ... who's responsibility is it to practice this (what I called 'better way' - what you pointed to in Sebastion's post), the sender, or receiver? And if one party does not .. then what?

The problem you are pointing out is merely quality of communication, as indicated in Sebastion's post. As the sender of information, it is my responsibility to ensure to the best of my ability that the receiver receives it as I intended it. If the receiver is offended, they should seek clarification to the sender that the offense was intended, or to get the misunderstanding clarified. If this is done adequately you get one of three results: The communication was received as intended, the offense was intentional or the misunderstanding of the offense was clarified. Full stop. If this very simple procedure is done and followed with any communication, it will trump all poor pre-programmed communication habits. Whether you believe the sender was comunicating like a neanderthal or not -- it works. It only breaks down when one party is convinced the other is not being honest -- that is a trust issue and a seperate topic.

¤=[Post Update]=¤



Read this one http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?p=215687#post215687
That is exactly down to a tee.That is a three line post of Amer's. If you intended to inform by linking to it, you did not succeed, at least for this reader. Perhaps I should eat more carrots?

The post links aren't 100% accurate -- I think it was sebastions post he was referring to.

[Lord Sidious]

I got the correct link in that post now.
It is this one.
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?20169-The-sensitivity-of-language-and-people-when-describing-race-related-issues&p=215665&viewfull=1#post215665

[ThePythonicCow]

If the receiver is offended, they should seek clarification to the sender that the offense was intended, or to get the misunderstanding clarified. If this is done adequately you get one of three results: The communication was received as intended, the offense was intentional or the misunderstanding of the offense was clarified
That sounds like excellent advice to me. Thanks.

[DeDukshyn]

I got the correct link in that post now.
It is this one.
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?20169-The-sensitivity-of-language-and-people-when-describing-race-related-issues&p=215665&viewfull=1#post215665

lol the post number might be best ... ;-)

[oceanz]

In the end when our bodies decompose all we are left with is a pile of WHITE bones - we all look pretty similar then.

What is more important is how you treat yourself and others so your spirit is full of colour as these will be the "clothes" you might wear in the next or spiritual life.

[DeDukshyn]

Just a simple pot stir? guess I was reading into it too much ... lol

Edit: I read it again, a lot has been revealed between yours, and a few others members posts ... Amer included ... interesting.

[Lord Sidious]

I got the correct link in that post now.
It is this one.
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?20169-The-sensitivity-of-language-and-people-when-describing-race-related-issues&p=215665&viewfull=1#post215665

lol the post number might be best ... ;-)

Does that not take you to that post?
It works for me.

[ThePythonicCow]

lol the post number might be best ... ;-)Not that it would ever happen on this forum, but post numbers are not stable under thread merges, thread splits and post copies, moves and deletions.

Oh .. nevermind .. this thread is itself the product of a thread split. Guess it can happen here too ;). In otherwords, notice that Bill Ryan's current Post #1 of this thread did not start out as Post #1. It started out as some other numbered post of another thread.

The (cumbersome) link to the actual post (the link beneath the post number in the upper right corner of each post) is the only long term stable way to refer to a post.

[Karma Ninja]

A teacher tends to know when his students are open to a lesson and willing to learn. Since none of us signed up for this class and this moment was never wanted, the lesson was missed and the students lost.

A teacher is able to unite his students in the discussion and allow for a free and open discourse. In this thread the students remain divided and the ingredients of the lesson are lost in a mad ramble that has never been clear or concise. Apparently some students have feelings that see them trapped in a paradigm that is not understood. If we are open to sentiment and feelings that our teacher disagrees with than we are slaves to a mind control system that few understand and which our teacher continually references without a moment spent teaching us this system.

A teacher can get his message across without offending his students and without destroying their interest in the topic. In this thread the two sides have largely taken offense to the methods and the topic and some have walked out of the classroom...never to return.

A teacher keeps the discussion on topic and makes his intentions clear and the goal of the lesson is explained to all, so that all can understand the wisdom. In this thread the teacher has switched the topic and the lesson itself a number of times in an attempt to guide the conversation away from the students challenges. The students are mostly aware that there is clearly a hidden agenda here and the lesson is lost on most. The teacher has confused his students and tries to cover the failure to teach by talking about an evolving lesson with fluid goals. The majority of students reject this explanation.

Some might understand what our self elected teacher has been trying to accomplish (I think I actually do and if it had been done it a separate and distinct thread I would feel differently) but I wonder what any of it has to do with the original topic posted or the newly created thread. This has become about the other agenda and moved on from the original intentions. It is a hijacked thread.

With regard to the actual topic it is a well known fact that the written word can be misinterpreted. One has to try and understand the intention behind the remark and not dwell on any perceived slight. The comment which caused the original discussion did not say "ALL" white men nor did it specify the "FEW" white men who actually did the harm. It isn't fair to generalize nor is it fair to pin someone in the corner based on a total misunderstanding. In this case a person took his own interpretation and reacted in a distasteful manner and lashed out at someone who clearly did not intend a slight. A fact confirmed by the many who saw the original comment for what it was intended. There is a sensitivity around race related issues and there is an obvious and easily understood reason for this reaction. The divide can hurt us and we are emotional regarding this rejection and hurt.

The intention of Bills original remark had more of a metaphorical meaning to it trying to get the point across about why moderators and Bill are willing to revoke the membership of people who "wander in the forest without regard to it's inhabitants or the results of their actions"...

Lets hope this terrible (my opinion) discussion has not completely lost us some valuable members with valuable opinions. People who don't want to be a part of a 'wormtongue' environment or be taught invisible and confusing lessons from a teacher who may have more to learn than teach.

That is my lesson for today. I sent one of my friends a link to this site and suggested she read some of the info and make her mind up about whether to join. Unfortunately she chose last night and she ended up reading this thread. Needless to say she decided not to join.

[ThePythonicCow]

That is my lesson for today. I sent one of my friends a link to this site and suggested she read some of the info and make her mind up about whether to join. Unfortunately she chose last night and she ended up reading this thread. Needless to say she decided not to join. If your friend is as clear of mind as you were in that post ... we will miss her. Wish her well for us.

[Lord Sidious]

A teacher tends to know when his students are open to a lesson and willing to learn. Since none of us signed up for this class and this moment was never wanted, the lesson was missed and the students lost.

A teacher is able to unite his students in the discussion and allow for a free and open discourse. In this thread the students remain divided and the ingredients of the lesson are lost in a mad ramble that has never been clear or concise. Apparently some students have feelings that see them trapped in a paradigm that is not understood. If we are open to sentiment and feelings that our teacher disagrees with than we are slaves to a mind control system that few understand and which our teacher continually references without a moment spent teaching us this system.

A teacher can get his message across without offending his students and without destroying their interest in the topic. In this thread the two sides have largely taken offense to the methods and the topic and some have walked out of the classroom...never to return.

A teacher keeps the discussion on topic and makes his intentions clear and the goal of the lesson is explained to all, so that all can understand the wisdom. In this thread the teacher has switched the topic and the lesson itself a number of times in an attempt to guide the conversation away from the students challenges. The students are mostly aware that there is clearly a hidden agenda here and the lesson is lost on most. The teacher has confused his students and tries to cover the failure to teach by talking about an evolving lesson with fluid goals. The majority of students reject this explanation.

Some might understand what our self elected teacher has been trying to accomplish (I think I actually do and if it had been done it a separate and distinct thread I would feel differently) but I wonder what any of it has to do with the original topic posted or the newly created thread. This has become about the other agenda and moved on from the original intentions. It is a hijacked thread.

With regard to the actual topic it is a well known fact that the written word can be misinterpreted. One has to try and understand the intention behind the remark and not dwell on any perceived slight. The comment which caused the original discussion did not say "ALL" white men nor did it specify the "FEW" white men who actually did the harm. It isn't fair to generalize nor is it fair to pin someone in the corner based on a total misunderstanding. In this case a person took his own interpretation and reacted in a distasteful manner and lashed out at someone who clearly did not intend a slight. A fact confirmed by the many who saw the original comment for what it was intended. There is a sensitivity around race related issues and there is an obvious and easily understood reason for this reaction. The divide can hurt us and we are emotional regarding this rejection and hurt.

The intention of Bills original remark had more of a metaphorical meaning to it trying to get the point across about why moderators and Bill are willing to revoke the membership of people who "wander in the forest without regard to it's inhabitants or the results of their actions"...

Lets hope this terrible (my opinion) discussion has not completely lost us some valuable members with valuable opinions. People who don't want to be a part of a 'wormtongue' environment or be taught invisible and confusing lessons from a teacher who may have more to learn than teach.

That is my lesson for today. I sent one of my friends a link to this site and suggested she read some of the info and make her mind up about whether to join. Unfortunately she chose last night and she ended up reading this thread. Needless to say she decided not to join.

Some get it, some don't, some refuse to get it.
I can only post what I post, I can't do anything else.
I am no more perfect than you are.
Did I make mistakes in this thread? Yes, I did.
Do other posters need to keep banging on that? Probably not.
The question I have for you, is how are you and your family going to survive?

[Flash]

Despite all the thanks you had, I think you are beside the track Strat. I don't think Lord Sidious intent to be right, I think the intentions are elsewhere.

Also, the separativeness programmation is soooooooo ingrained in us that you made 2 here: age differences, and being a MAN . What difference does it make if you are a man or a woman. This is all the same, nobody likes to be forced into excuses no? Why an older person could not be stupid if he desires so, or have some flaws, as a young one (although I don't think Lord Sidious is in these posts)?.

Well, personnally, I think this is precisely what Lord Sidious is talking about, those ingrained programmation we have, the language we unconsciously use representing them, the images we unconsciously produce in our minds, the separations we provoke with it, without even seeing it.

Correct me if I am wong.

I don't mean to correct you, so much as make my perspective clear to everyone. great
Where you said "LS doesn't intend to be right, his intentions are elsewhere," I don't know what you mean. Why wouldn't you want to be right? because it is not needed nor wise or sage, it would only spur conflicts for what he intend to do. His intents are mentioned in the last paragraph of my post, he would be wrong to be right.

I'm going to address the age thing as well as the 'man' thing.

I said to him that I didn't want to come across as pious because I'm younger than him: I imagine, statistically, older people have more wisdom and often more knowledge in general than younger. I know it's not black and white like that, but many perceive it that way. I was raised this way. Many people don't like having a young buck giving them advice. Is that programming? Maybe. The fact is that it's very common in society and if he felt that way I wanted to make sure I didn't offend him.

That is very kind of you and also wise to try to prevent perilous situations and have enough empathy to try to put yourself in someone's else shoes. However, I could easily say that a lot of very young bucks as you say have tought me unimaginable, heartful, intelligent things. Yes you have been raised that way, it may be programming, and we can all surpass this here on the forum - your advices are always welcome.

Right now a lot of people are jumping on him. I wanted to make it clear that I am aware I likely have less life experience. I said it out of respect for him. If he were one of the people that falls under the statistic of not liking young guys giving advice, my comment would alleviate that. From there, he knows I'm trying to help, not attack like others. I don't know him, so I'm crossing my t's and dotting my i's so that I don't offend his sensibilities. What's so wrong with that? Nothing wrong, it shows prudence, wise behavior and empathy.

There has to be some level where age matters. Maybe it's just me, but I don't feel as though my niece has a lot of wisdom. She's cute, but she doesn't know much about life. This is why I try to teach and protect her. So the counter-argument is, "well that's a 3 year old that doesn't count." OK, fair enough, where do we draw the line? Teens? 20s? People translate this differently and I try not to excite sensibilities. You are great in your way of thinking, please do not change it. Yes age counts for the experience, for the teaching, for the mentoring, yet, younger people can bring so much and most wise old person won't mind the comments and sometimes unstudied advices of youngsters, they do understand. And they love the youngsters' implication in this world.

I am not an 'ageist.' If I came across that way then I apologize I wasn't more clear. I really try hard to be articulate, I pride myself in this (this post is taking 30+ minutes). I will say it again, I am not an ageist, and I won't get into a semantical argument about this. I believe you, I just took your words to make a point, we often use words that carry meanings and actions we are not even aware of, every single one of us has this kind of programming, no reproach here.

For the 'man' thing: Maybe this is programming. You may absolutely, be 100% correct. If it is programming, it needs to be acknowledged and we can't attack sensibilities just because they shouldn't exist. We must be compassionate and understanding to change the programming. If you don't address sensibilities like this you will face aggression real quick. If someone walks up to me in the bar, slaps the beer out of my hand and curses my mother, I'll punch them in the chin. If you do this to a girl, she may hit you, or she may get her boyfriend or a man she's with. This has been going on since humans realized they can get drunk. Guys love establishing dominance, OF COURSE this is not all guys, but in general. This is open to debate, though I feel it's not 50/50. Most guys would love to be the knight in shining armor, Superman, or whatever. The star, the guy nobody messes with. I completely agree with this whole paragraph. about the program and all. However, there is something glorious about the protective knight in his white armor, the dream of every girl. The problem is not with positive roles and love shown through protection, the problem is with unconscious programming leading to biaises. As soon as it becomes conscious, this is a whole different game, this is consciousness. Once again, I took your writing to make a point, nothing against you, on the contrary, thanks for being useful.

Again, you may be right, the more I think about it, I agree with you. Growing up I participated in martial arts. This is probably because I wanted to be the billy bad ass I saw on TV. There are millions upon millions of guys like this. To be the knight in shinning armor, you have to know how to throw a jab-hook, 1-2. love this, this is delightful conciousness, you see. It would not stop you from liking martial arts, wanting to be the knight and throwing a jab-hook, all in consciousness. This becomes a different game.

This may be a backwards, perverse part of society but it is ingrained in the minds of MEN. Many of us are highly likely to rail against any perceived aggression, puff the chest out kind of thing. Here's the thing, even if I am aware of it, and train myself to be a calm person, it's the 'clutch time' that counts. Many men can be understanding, though when someone starts telling them what to do something happens in their brain. Adrenalin starts getting released and that old 'monkey pounding on the chest' instinct comes out of us. Often times, people (men and women I know, I know) get into discussions, then it evolves into resisting the angry emotions. This is where emotion starts to cloud thoughts. It's natural. I think men have a higher probability to 'pound the chest' than women. I do find that odd, because it seems women have a hard time making friends with other women. Maybe the girls I know are crazy, anyway.. you are right about women and women, they are often competing ferociously, in a different way. When you are conscious of it, this is a different game, it is an assumed game, fully responsible game. And you know what, the need for pounding on the chest or ferouscious competition then disappear as per miracle.

So the answer is compassion. It's this knee-jerk reaction that causes fights. LS didn't show compassion or awareness of what I'm talking about in his derogatory posts. He went straight to the chest beating. I will say though, the last few times he's defended himself he has done so with the up most class. He has been calm and articulate and I salute him for that, it probably isn't easy. You are entirely right here except that SL was doing the pounding deliberately, consciously, to deliver a point.

You're free to call me sexist, but I'm not, that's just not true. If any of you ladies are offended I am sorry. I've never in my life been called a sexist. I won't discuss this in this thread either. If you'd like, I'd be willing to discuss it in a new thread, or in PM. I don't want to derail this thread but I seriously don't like the idea of being perceived as a sexist. I do like knights in shining armour, this is not sexist. thanks for helping me deliver my point about programming.

So if you and LS are aware of programming at this level, you guys should set the examples. I do not feel in his earlier posts with Bill he set a positive example. I feel he went into the chest beating response. You need to practice what you preach or nobody will listen.

God do i like your reflections and reflexions. You do show quite a lot of maturity and are sage. Thanks for the true exchange.
Flash

[Charlie Pecos]

Nirvana- All Apologies

NPMyc6TPy5U&feature=related

[Strat]

God do i like your reflections and reflexions. You do show quite a lot of maturity and are sage. Thanks for the true exchange.
Flash

Ohh I'm just a pool shootin boy out of Jacksonville. Thanks though. And CCR said it best, "Always down for some good conversation."

[Lord Sidious]

God do i like your reflections and reflexions. You do show quite a lot of maturity and are sage. Thanks for the true exchange.
Flash

Ohh I'm just a pool shootin boy out of Jacksonville. Thanks though. And CCR said it best, "Always down for some good conversation."

Ooh, Creedance, gotta love em.

[Karma Ninja]

A teacher tends to know when his students are open to a lesson and willing to learn. Since none of us signed up for this class and this moment was never wanted, the lesson was missed and the students lost.

A teacher is able to unite his students in the discussion and allow for a free and open discourse. In this thread the students remain divided and the ingredients of the lesson are lost in a mad ramble that has never been clear or concise. Apparently some students have feelings that see them trapped in a paradigm that is not understood. If we are open to sentiment and feelings that our teacher disagrees with than we are slaves to a mind control system that few understand and which our teacher continually references without a moment spent teaching us this system.

A teacher can get his message across without offending his students and without destroying their interest in the topic. In this thread the two sides have largely taken offense to the methods and the topic and some have walked out of the classroom...never to return.

A teacher keeps the discussion on topic and makes his intentions clear and the goal of the lesson is explained to all, so that all can understand the wisdom. In this thread the teacher has switched the topic and the lesson itself a number of times in an attempt to guide the conversation away from the students challenges. The students are mostly aware that there is clearly a hidden agenda here and the lesson is lost on most. The teacher has confused his students and tries to cover the failure to teach by talking about an evolving lesson with fluid goals. The majority of students reject this explanation.

Some might understand what our self elected teacher has been trying to accomplish (I think I actually do and if it had been done it a separate and distinct thread I would feel differently) but I wonder what any of it has to do with the original topic posted or the newly created thread. This has become about the other agenda and moved on from the original intentions. It is a hijacked thread.

With regard to the actual topic it is a well known fact that the written word can be misinterpreted. One has to try and understand the intention behind the remark and not dwell on any perceived slight. The comment which caused the original discussion did not say "ALL" white men nor did it specify the "FEW" white men who actually did the harm. It isn't fair to generalize nor is it fair to pin someone in the corner based on a total misunderstanding. In this case a person took his own interpretation and reacted in a distasteful manner and lashed out at someone who clearly did not intend a slight. A fact confirmed by the many who saw the original comment for what it was intended. There is a sensitivity around race related issues and there is an obvious and easily understood reason for this reaction. The divide can hurt us and we are emotional regarding this rejection and hurt.

The intention of Bills original remark had more of a metaphorical meaning to it trying to get the point across about why moderators and Bill are willing to revoke the membership of people who "wander in the forest without regard to it's inhabitants or the results of their actions"...

Lets hope this terrible (my opinion) discussion has not completely lost us some valuable members with valuable opinions. People who don't want to be a part of a 'wormtongue' environment or be taught invisible and confusing lessons from a teacher who may have more to learn than teach.

That is my lesson for today. I sent one of my friends a link to this site and suggested she read some of the info and make her mind up about whether to join. Unfortunately she chose last night and she ended up reading this thread. Needless to say she decided not to join.

Some get it, some don't, some refuse to get it.
I can only post what I post, I can't do anything else.
I am no more perfect than you are.
Did I make mistakes in this thread? Yes, I did.
Do other posters need to keep banging on that? Probably not.
The question I have for you, is how are you and your family going to survive?

Sid it takes a man to admit he has made mistakes and I now know you are a true man! I also admit to being far from perfect! Just ask my kids...or my parents for that matter. But please don't ask my wife...she knows too much ;)

Lets not debate whether other posters should continue to bang on those mistakes since this thread is already 16 pages long. I wish it had ended long ago. If you want a ceasefire I respect that. Many issues raised and settled and peace has resumed.

How will my family survive is a diversionary tactic but I appreciate your care and concerns... We will survive as best as we can and as long as love will have us. I fear nothing my friend and I don't want my family to either... Wise are you to the powers of the force. Don't give in to the dark side...

Peace as always!

[Lord Sidious]

A teacher tends to know when his students are open to a lesson and willing to learn. Since none of us signed up for this class and this moment was never wanted, the lesson was missed and the students lost.

A teacher is able to unite his students in the discussion and allow for a free and open discourse. In this thread the students remain divided and the ingredients of the lesson are lost in a mad ramble that has never been clear or concise. Apparently some students have feelings that see them trapped in a paradigm that is not understood. If we are open to sentiment and feelings that our teacher disagrees with than we are slaves to a mind control system that few understand and which our teacher continually references without a moment spent teaching us this system.

A teacher can get his message across without offending his students and without destroying their interest in the topic. In this thread the two sides have largely taken offense to the methods and the topic and some have walked out of the classroom...never to return.

A teacher keeps the discussion on topic and makes his intentions clear and the goal of the lesson is explained to all, so that all can understand the wisdom. In this thread the teacher has switched the topic and the lesson itself a number of times in an attempt to guide the conversation away from the students challenges. The students are mostly aware that there is clearly a hidden agenda here and the lesson is lost on most. The teacher has confused his students and tries to cover the failure to teach by talking about an evolving lesson with fluid goals. The majority of students reject this explanation.

Some might understand what our self elected teacher has been trying to accomplish (I think I actually do and if it had been done it a separate and distinct thread I would feel differently) but I wonder what any of it has to do with the original topic posted or the newly created thread. This has become about the other agenda and moved on from the original intentions. It is a hijacked thread.

With regard to the actual topic it is a well known fact that the written word can be misinterpreted. One has to try and understand the intention behind the remark and not dwell on any perceived slight. The comment which caused the original discussion did not say "ALL" white men nor did it specify the "FEW" white men who actually did the harm. It isn't fair to generalize nor is it fair to pin someone in the corner based on a total misunderstanding. In this case a person took his own interpretation and reacted in a distasteful manner and lashed out at someone who clearly did not intend a slight. A fact confirmed by the many who saw the original comment for what it was intended. There is a sensitivity around race related issues and there is an obvious and easily understood reason for this reaction. The divide can hurt us and we are emotional regarding this rejection and hurt.

The intention of Bills original remark had more of a metaphorical meaning to it trying to get the point across about why moderators and Bill are willing to revoke the membership of people who "wander in the forest without regard to it's inhabitants or the results of their actions"...

Lets hope this terrible (my opinion) discussion has not completely lost us some valuable members with valuable opinions. People who don't want to be a part of a 'wormtongue' environment or be taught invisible and confusing lessons from a teacher who may have more to learn than teach.

That is my lesson for today. I sent one of my friends a link to this site and suggested she read some of the info and make her mind up about whether to join. Unfortunately she chose last night and she ended up reading this thread. Needless to say she decided not to join.

Some get it, some don't, some refuse to get it.
I can only post what I post, I can't do anything else.
I am no more perfect than you are.
Did I make mistakes in this thread? Yes, I did.
Do other posters need to keep banging on that? Probably not.
The question I have for you, is how are you and your family going to survive?

Sid it takes a man to admit he has made mistakes and I now know you are a true man! I also admit to being far from perfect! Just ask my kids...or my parents for that matter. But please don't ask my wife...she knows too much ;)

Lets not debate whether other posters should continue to bang on those mistakes since this thread is already 16 pages long. I wish it had ended long ago. If you want a ceasefire I respect that. Many issues raised and settled and peace has resumed.

How will my family survive is a diversionary tactic but I appreciate your care and concerns... We will survive as best as we can and as long as love will have us. I fear nothing my friend and I don't want my family to either... Wise are you to the powers of the force. Don't give in to the dark side...

Peace as always!

Thanks for the kind words, that deserves more than a thanks button being pushed.
I am not calling for a ceasefire, I want to get back on track, we moved past that part.
And the question of survival is NOT a sidetrack, it is THE track.
That is the entire point of this forum, camelot and nexus.
I am not joking around on this, Atticus has access to info that you and others don't have access to.

[DoubleHelix]

Lets not debate whether other posters should continue to bang on those mistakes since this thread is already 16 pages long. I wish it had ended long ago. If you want a ceasefire I respect that. Many issues raised and settled and peace has resumed.


The shows not over until the fat lady sings! I think what's transpired in this thread has given us a real sense of hope and optimism! Now unity sounds like a crazy idea considering what's gone on over the distant and much more recent past. As LS said previously we don't necessarily have to like or get along with each other.. But if we could all show a level of respect across the board throughout Avalon, Camelot and Nexus then I think the outcome would benefit all of us. It would allow us to focus on the bigger problems currently going on in the world today. Believe me there's bigger fish to fry than dealing with inter forum squabbling.

Such a task would require collaboration from Mods between the forums.

With all that said and done I believe progress is in full swing :)

[Lord Sidious]

Lets not debate whether other posters should continue to bang on those mistakes since this thread is already 16 pages long. I wish it had ended long ago. If you want a ceasefire I respect that. Many issues raised and settled and peace has resumed.


The shows not over until the fat lady sings! I think what's transpired in this thread has given us a real sense of hope and optimism! Now unity sounds like a crazy idea considering what's gone on over the distant and much more recent past. As LS said previously we don't necessarily have to like or get along with each other.. But if we could all show a level of respect across the board throughout Avalon, Camelot and Nexus then I think the outcome would benefit all of us. It would allow us to focus on the bigger problems currently going on in the world today. Believe me there's bigger fish to fry than dealing with inter forum squabbling.

Such a task would require collaboration from Mods between the forums.

With all that said and done I believe progress is in full swing :)

The mods better bloody co operate, I just got a STACK of carrots in.
Just in case. :p

Seriously though, there is a method to the madness. I get very irritated with all the squabbling over stupid crap when he have urgent things to begin working on.
What could be more important than the survival of most of the people on the planet, I don't know.

[mondaze]

a clear outline of your take on atticus would be helpful rob, did he give you more information?

[Mike]

still beating the drum over here Lord Sid? ;) the arms must be getting a little rubbery by now, eh? you are dedicated; i'll have to give you that.

while i disagree completely with the way you went about this, i do obviously agree that(for those of you who think i've somehow missed the point) - when taken one by one - topics like racial programming and adapting/surviving world changes are vitally important.

but i think this thread has gotten a little schizophrenic (oh God - i've likely just started a ridiculous 'the sensitivity of language regarding disease' thread unknowingly). maybe you should break off and address the individual topics in separate threads. speaking for myself, i'd really like to know what an individual with limited resources can do to prepare for the coming earth changes. don't think it's ever really been addressed here. would make a great thread.

[Lord Sidious]

a clear outline of your take on atticus would be helpful rob, did he give you more information?

Yes, but not enough yet to lay it all out on you.


still beating the drum over here Lord Sid? ;) the arms must be getting a little rubbery by now, eh? you are dedicated; i'll have to give you that.

while i disagree completely with the way you went about this, i do obviously agree that(for those of you who think i've somehow missed the point) - when taken one by one - topics like racial programming and adapting/surviving world changes are vitally important.

but i think this thread has gotten a little schizophrenic (oh God - i've likely just started a ridiculous 'the sensitivity of language regarding disease' thread unknowingly). maybe you should break off and address the individual topics in separate threads. speaking for myself, i'd really like to know what an individual with limited resources can do to prepare for the coming earth changes. don't think it's ever really been addressed here. would make a great thread.

Whilst what you say has merit about splitting things up, I would suggest that it would affect the context of some of the posts.
The topic of the three forums setting aside their differences is an important one too.
Camelot and Nexus should have just as much access to the info as Avalon.

[Mike]

bringing together the forums sounds nice in the abstract (for the record i don't think its necessary) but how can this notion be applied practically? what are you suggesting, specifically?

[mosquito]

Survival has certainly been making itself known to me as an important issue in recent years. I obviously don't know what's going to happen, there are so many people with so many different, conflicting theories. All I know is that times could get very very tough. Yesterday I read the letter from the "Norwegian politician" and I had to laugh; Do these so-called "elites" really think they're oing to survive ? Most of them couldn't even make a cup of coffee for themselves, let alone master the survival skills they're going to need. If the only survivors were the "elites" (as per the end of the film 2012), that would truly be a disaster for life on this Earth. Chinaski, I understand your question, and I feel the same way, but I have a feeling money isn't going to be the key to surviving.
If you want to survive and to ensure the survival of your loved ones, I reccomend you find yourself a community of indigenous, or if not indigenous, at least poor, land-dwelling people, people who know how to plant vegetables, how to make fire, how to make clothes, to build shelters and who won't baulk at killing an animal for food. Not only will you have found yourself the best way of staying alive, you'll also have found a community of people far more sincere, genuine, supportive and reliable than any bunch of "educated", arrogant, useless, genetically inferior (yes, inbreeding tends to produce weaker gene pools) "elites". I'd also reccomend that you have a skill that is genuinely useful to the community - they don't need crystal therapists or brain surgeons, they're far more likely to value a carpenter or a sanitation engineer.
All, of course, in my not-always-so-bloody-humble opinion !

[FrankoL]

The thread is senseless (with one word: kindergarten). He said/she said, apologize now….oh please, that is really painful to read.

We all know that bad things happen in many ways. The right question would be why. There is still a lot to be learned.

[Sebastion]

Lord Sidious......

I would ask you to check your feelings........

You have no idea of the pure power........

Of that which IS........

Authentic Consciousness.......

The "force" which creates all that IS.......

[Blue]

Lord Sid,

I hope you are now finally getting a rest. I have to say that I find your tenacity and staying power pretty impressive. Its been many hours and 16 pages to carry on repeating the same point, and I have to say its a pretty simple one you are making (so simple that I did not get it straight away). When I started reading this thread I was quite annoyed with you as you wouldnt let it lie but I now see you couldnt really.
I have a couple of questions for you, the first one may be a bit off topic so sorry for that:
You seem to be an intelligent, discerning and logical man and because of this I want to know what is it about Atticus that makes you believe him and what he is telling you? There are so many people out there try to sell their particular story so why do you pick his?
Secondly,if what he says is true and what you are talking about in this thread happened and we avalonians were all now deprogrammed, having let go of our institutional behaviour and beliefs in everything we have ever known, how would that prepare us for what you say is going to happen in 5 - 10 years? What is going to happen that would make us incapable of dealing with it just because we have been programmed to varying degrees? All of mankind has survived wars, famine, genocide since time bagan and we are still here and some of us are even enjoying life and are still programmed so what is it thats going to happen to neccesitate this de-programming?
blue

blue

[NancyV]

a clear outline of your take on atticus would be helpful rob, did he give you more information?

Yes, but not enough yet to lay it all out on you.
Okay, let me see if I have this correct; you are hinting at dire information that you sort of have but don't totally have so you can't tell us yet. Charles is hinting at more dire info to you but not telling it ALL to you yet so he's stringing you along. In the meantime until you decide to tell us the whole story, which depends on Charles telling you the whole story, you're going to hint at these events in the not too distant future because you would like everyone to come up with survival ideas for.... what? The entire human race? A chosen few? Camelot, Avalon and Nexus? All from some hints from Charles?

We have no idea if any of what he said about the so called 33 and their plans to kill off large numbers of humans is correct. If he says he has information of some natural type catastrophe but will only hint to you at what it is, why would you trust his information. Why won't he just tell you? It sounds to me like he's toying with you just as he seemed to do with this forum for the short time he was here. Of course if you choose to believe him that is your business. Personally I'm done with Guru's and disaster prophecies. I've listened to too many of them over the last 40 years or so.

IF something huge happens within the next 5-10 years survival is going to be very personal for each family or small group. Living in or near a big city would be extremely dangerous. If you live in the country but there is a large city within 50-100 miles you will be in the path of many people leaving and trying to survive in any way they can. That would mean taking whatever they could take from those who have anything they can use. If you live out in the country it won't be good enough just to have a garden and be able to fish and hunt, you will need a LOT of ammo and weapons to defend yourself and your family.

If you are highly spiritually advanced to the point where you can use the force to put a protective energy barrier around your family or group or become invisible to others, that's great, but most won't be able to do that. Another alternative would be to change the timeline.

If you aren't prepared to fight and/or kill to defend yourself and your family, then you and they will probably be killed. And so? There is no death, your body will just be uninhabitable. You will then leave this earth plane/dimension and continue your adventures elsewhere. No big deal.

[ViralSpiral]

The thread is senseless (with one word: kindergarten). He said/she said, apologize now….oh please, that is really painful to read.

We all know that bad things happen in many ways. The right question would be why. There is still a lot to be learned.

Another question could be: how does this insight help us learn?
Impudence is a conscious choice too, as much as the one to get involved and grow is.

[Lord Sidious]

bringing together the forums sounds nice in the abstract (for the record i don't think its necessary) but how can this notion be applied practically? what are you suggesting, specifically?

There are people on all three forums who have no issues with the other forums, that is a base to work with.
Then there are others who have an issue or more than one and they need to deal with that to move on.
I would like to try and help those ones first, they can join the first group later and then we can start disclosing the Charles/Atticus info just like a lot of you always wanted.
But the healing/closure thing is important too.
I don't know how to achieve that, I am open to suggestions and guidance on that.

This is something bill is not only central to, he is a fulcrum.
I realised that when I was angry at him the other day.
Instead of us throwing rocks at him (metaphorically) we need to extend our hand to him and help him past his key issue and that is being able to admit an error, apologise and move on.
Why it is an issue, I don't know, but it is a fulcrum for all three forums.
If we can join forces to help do this, then the dynamic can change.
This isn't to say bill is ''bad'' or anything like that, he is a man, he makes mistakes.
Like me.
That is why I carried on with the request for an apology and I would still like it.


Survival has certainly been making itself known to me as an important issue in recent years. I obviously don't know what's going to happen, there are so many people with so many different, conflicting theories. All I know is that times could get very very tough. Yesterday I read the letter from the "Norwegian politician" and I had to laugh; Do these so-called "elites" really think they're oing to survive ? Most of them couldn't even make a cup of coffee for themselves, let alone master the survival skills they're going to need. If the only survivors were the "elites" (as per the end of the film 2012), that would truly be a disaster for life on this Earth. Chinaski, I understand your question, and I feel the same way, but I have a feeling money isn't going to be the key to surviving.
If you want to survive and to ensure the survival of your loved ones, I reccomend you find yourself a community of indigenous, or if not indigenous, at least poor, land-dwelling people, people who know how to plant vegetables, how to make fire, how to make clothes, to build shelters and who won't baulk at killing an animal for food. Not only will you have found yourself the best way of staying alive, you'll also have found a community of people far more sincere, genuine, supportive and reliable than any bunch of "educated", arrogant, useless, genetically inferior (yes, inbreeding tends to produce weaker gene pools) "elites". I'd also reccomend that you have a skill that is genuinely useful to the community - they don't need crystal therapists or brain surgeons, they're far more likely to value a carpenter or a sanitation engineer.
All, of course, in my not-always-so-bloody-humble opinion !

The elites do think they will survive.
The have the foreknowlege, the resources and the plan.
Most of us have none of the above.
We can change that.


The thread is senseless (with one word: kindergarten). He said/she said, apologize now….oh please, that is really painful to read.

We all know that bad things happen in many ways. The right question would be why. There is still a lot to be learned.

Although I don't disagree with you totally, let me ask you this, do you see it as senseless because you don't get the agenda behind it?
The he said/she said thing doesn't have to be destructive, I am trying to turn that around and use the positive we can get from it.
The last part of your post is why I repped you for the post, that part is 110% correct and I thank you for adding that to the thread, that is where we are now.


Lord Sidious......

I would ask you to check your feelings........

You have no idea of the pure power........

Of that which IS........

Authentic Consciousness.......

The "force" which creates all that IS.......

You could very well be right.
Tell me more please, I am open to all suggestions.


Lord Sid,

I hope you are now finally getting a rest. I have to say that I find your tenacity and staying power pretty impressive. Its been many hours and 16 pages to carry on repeating the same point, and I have to say its a pretty simple one you are making (so simple that I did not get it straight away). When I started reading this thread I was quite annoyed with you as you wouldnt let it lie but I now see you couldnt really.
I have a couple of questions for you, the first one may be a bit off topic so sorry for that:
You seem to be an intelligent, discerning and logical man and because of this I want to know what is it about Atticus that makes you believe him and what he is telling you? There are so many people out there try to sell their particular story so why do you pick his?
Secondly,if what he says is true and what you are talking about in this thread happened and we avalonians were all now deprogrammed, having let go of our institutional behaviour and beliefs in everything we have ever known, how would that prepare us for what you say is going to happen in 5 - 10 years? What is going to happen that would make us incapable of dealing with it just because we have been programmed to varying degrees? All of mankind has survived wars, famine, genocide since time bagan and we are still here and some of us are even enjoying life and are still programmed so what is it thats going to happen to neccesitate this de-programming?
blue

blue

I am one of Atticus 18.
Bearing that in mind, there is no profit as such to make from telling me certain things, like that which I spoke of before.
None of us want to see those we care about suffer and/or die before they should.
And that includes him too, so he has a vested interest in getting things in place.

We need to prepare for a cataclysm on the scale, but not of the same type, that killed off the dinosaurs.
I know very little at this point of exact details of what is coming. I am learning and willing to inform others, that is part of what Atticus/Charles mission is now.
Thanks for the kind words, it is not easy to stick to your line when everyone is throwing stones at you, but I figure enough of you will figure that the messenger is usually not received so well, even if they tell the truth.




a clear outline of your take on atticus would be helpful rob, did he give you more information?

Yes, but not enough yet to lay it all out on you.
Okay, let me see if I have this correct; you are hinting at dire information that you sort of have but don't totally have so you can't tell us yet. Charles is hinting at more dire info to you but not telling it ALL to you yet so he's stringing you along. In the meantime until you decide to tell us the whole story, which depends on Charles telling you the whole story, you're going to hint at these events in the not too distant future because you would like everyone to come up with survival ideas for.... what? The entire human race? A chosen few? Camelot, Avalon and Nexus? All from some hints from Charles?

We have no idea if any of what he said about the so called 33 and their plans to kill off large numbers of humans is correct. If he says he has information of some natural type catastrophe but will only hint to you at what it is, why would you trust his information. Why won't he just tell you? It sounds to me like he's toying with you just as he seemed to do with this forum for the short time he was here. Of course if you choose to believe him that is your business. Personally I'm done with Guru's and disaster prophecies. I've listened to too many of them over the last 40 years or so.

IF something huge happens within the next 5-10 years survival is going to be very personal for each family or small group. Living in or near a big city would be extremely dangerous. If you live in the country but there is a large city within 50-100 miles you will be in the path of many people leaving and trying to survive in any way they can. That would mean taking whatever they could take from those who have anything they can use. If you live out in the country it won't be good enough just to have a garden and be able to fish and hunt, you will need a LOT of ammo and weapons to defend yourself and your family.

If you are highly spiritually advanced to the point where you can use the force to put a protective energy barrier around your family or group or become invisible to others, that's great, but most won't be able to do that. Another alternative would be to change the timeline.

If you aren't prepared to fight and/or kill to defend yourself and your family, then you and they will probably be killed. And so? There is no death, your body will just be uninhabitable. You will then leave this earth plane/dimension and continue your adventures elsewhere. No big deal.

I can only do what I can do with what I have.
Would it be better for me to just say nothing? Then some of you would say we are hiding it from you, no?
This info is not mine to keep back, it should be there for everyone to judge for themselves what to do with it, that is an option you have NEVER been given, have you?
The last part of what you say is correct, but has one flaw, it is a big deal.
If this experience (life) is about some type of test, then what you say and do is THE big deal.




The thread is senseless (with one word: kindergarten). He said/she said, apologize now….oh please, that is really painful to read.

We all know that bad things happen in many ways. The right question would be why. There is still a lot to be learned.

Another question could be: how does this insight help us learn?
Impudence is a conscious choice too, as much as the one to get involved and grow is.

Good point, we need to extract as much positivity from this all as we can.
We have had too much negative here and we need to turn it around.
The time for conflict in this thread and maybe across the three forums has passed.
I am interested in moving forward and helping all you guys.

[mosquito]

So how do we move forward ?
We are all of us human, we've had our glories and we've made mistakes, each of us is where we are today as a result of our life experiences. As for me, right now, I can tell you that I did years of "spiritual" progress back in the 90s, while the last 10 years has forced me to look at deeper (and I mean DEEP) issues from my own past, my families and the species. Have I got it sussed ? No. Am I "fully conscious" ? No. Do I have a plan ? No. So believe me, I am more than ready to receive help and contribute all that I am to ensuring we survive. I joined Avalon in order to make contact with like-minded people, awake to whatever degree they are, in order for us to cooperate as a species, bring together all the positive things that humans are capable of and create a world where we and our fellow Earth inhabitants can live happily, peacefully and harmoniously.
This has been a marvelous thread, like listening to a cacophonous din turn into a beautiful symphony, thanks to you all. What an excellent metaphor for moving forward !!
Love from Philip

[Lord Sidious]

So how do we move forward ?
We are all of us human, we've had our glories and we've made mistakes, each of us is where we are today as a result of our life experiences. As for me, right now, I can tell you that I did years of "spiritual" progress back in the 90s, while the last 10 years has forced me to look at deeper (and I mean DEEP) issues from my own past, my families and the species. Have I got it sussed ? No. Am I "fully conscious" ? No. Do I have a plan ? No. So believe me, I am more than ready to receive help and contribute all that I am to ensuring we survive. I joined Avalon in order to make contact with like-minded people, awake to whatever degree they are, in order for us to cooperate as a species, bring together all the positive things that humans are capable of and create a world where we and our fellow Earth inhabitants can live happily, peacefully and harmoniously.
This has been a marvelous thread, like listening to a cacophonous din turn into a beautiful symphony, thanks to you all. What an excellent metaphor for moving forward !!
Love from Philip

Thanks Philip and love to you and the rest as well.
So you see there is a method behind my madness then? :cool:

[mosquito]

I certainly do ! I'm beginning to think that the only way to get someone to take a good hard look at themselves is to push their buttons really hard ( and this is an accepted, if debated, therapeutic tool) and even when we are all able to move on, the process doesn't stop.
I look forward to sharing more with you. ;)

[sheddie]

Well my Lord that is welcome news indeed I must say, I for one am very interested in hearing what atticus has to say and am happy that he has not given up on us.

I also thank you for your tenacity and am grateful for your ability to articulate and remain calm ..... it make a refreshing change :)

It is time to move on and I would like to be one of the first to join you in your call for peace, I hope that many others will do the same and Be the Change..........

There is much to do and very little time please let us all heal this awful divide and move on, after all we all want the same thing.

:peace:

much love x

[Blue]

Lord Sid,

I dont want anyone to suffer, regardless of whether I know them or not. But neither do I want to be a fool that believes in something just because someone says so - a dilemna!

blue

[W.C.]

I don't know if we have to wait for anyone to reveal anything. I don't know why people insist on dangling carrots in front of donkeys. I don't know.

I do think that enough has been released to show we need to prepare... the pole shift has been progressing, the suns been releasing who knows what which is changing at least the physical structure of matter, an asteroid body is heading towards a close shave with Earth and may have ET's tagging along or is simply being touted as such for a possible false flag.

China is preparing for war, sending ground troops into Turkey, in addition to it's already stationed air force, testing it's tech, etc. Israel is preparing placate Palestine so it can focus on war with Iran. America is all over the place, even invading Libya, and is in its early stages on Syria.

Wikileaks releases info saying Taliban will release a nuclear hellstorm is Osama is killed, only a few days before he is touted as such. Fukushima is still releasing who knows how much radiation. Mass animal deaths happening globally without cause. The New Madrid Fault line is being tampered with. The conduit is closing.

Atticus or no, do we really need more reason to prepare?

[Agape]

I can only see Sid that the forum has issues and agendas , and follow-ships and saviours of the world ,
I'm sure there are quite couple of folks here who belong to that category .

The chief problem as I see it is that we are not able to communicate together, enjoy each others spirituality,
intelligence and make sense of each other .

It's either follow him or follow me, I am not here to follow anyone sorry and not asking anyone to follow me.

I am the bearer of knowledge that is unique and was entrusted to me and I'm sovereign being.
It does not mean that I do no mistakes or do not appreciate advice,

but what sense does it all make to you here ?

Are you all Bill's followers or Charles followers or someone elses followers ?


Is it what it is about here instead of truth and research ?





:alien:

[DoubleHelix]

We need to prepare for a cataclysm on the scale, but not of the same type, that killed off the dinosaurs.
I know very little at this point of exact details of what is coming. I am learning and willing to inform others, that is part of what Atticus/Charles mission is now.

Well with that bombshell, I hope your ready for a barrage of questions to come flying your way!

Many members here have doubts concerning the Charles' material ? If the plan includes to save all.. how does He plan to regain the trust that's deteriorated since his departure?

For the record - I personally found Charles was honest and showed a lot of integrity.

[Agape]

All I read on these new age forums is how we are to get ready for great calamities, it's certainly 'very new' , very claustrophobic society expecting the worlds end.

It's 60% of the underlying content here including Charles statements ,

doomsday vault really.

What is the use of any good information to you ? Of course, it does not look like that first hands and more over,
it's total nonsense,
none of this is going to happen but there will always be factions who will hope for that it does happen and getting their sheeple ready.

[SKIBADABOMSKI]

Holy Moses !! IT'S ONE OF THE 18

http://i52.tinypic.com/fcrw6.jpg

Very exciting news.. I think your an ideal choice.

[loveandgratitude]

The best thriller novels are plot driven, present a chain of events that are compelling to the reader, and create an atmosphere of anxiety.
However, the best thriller novels do not succeed unless they focus on characters whose plight the reader cares about, and characters that evoke sympathy. Sympathetic, well-drawn characters are what make the best thriller novels, well, the best thriller novels.
I believe we have a blockbuster here. Riveting....cannot wait until the next installment

.:behindsofa: :pop2::pop2::pop2::pop2:

[Agape]

It's possible that your endless alerts about when the world is going to end will wake some people but diverting them to wrong course,
you understand ?

Sorry if you don't actually .

:angel:

[W.C.]

Agape, who are you speaking to? I can't seem to find who here is endlessly touting the world is going to end. All I can seem to find is caution to prepare for a coming event -- of which, there are a number, and none of which appear to be world enders.

[mosquito]

I don't know if we have to wait for anyone to reveal anything. I don't know why people insist on dangling carrots in front of donkeys. I don't know.

I do think that enough has been released to show we need to prepare... the pole shift has been progressing, the suns been releasing who knows what which is changing at least the physical structure of matter, an asteroid body is heading towards a close shave with Earth and may have ET's tagging along or is simply being touted as such for a possible false flag.

China is preparing for war, sending ground troops into Turkey, in addition to it's already stationed air force, testing it's tech, etc. Israel is preparing placate Palestine so it can focus on war with Iran. America is all over the place, even invading Libya, and is in its early stages on Syria.

Wikileaks releases info saying Taliban will release a nuclear hellstorm is Osama is killed, only a few days before he is touted as such. Fukushima is still releasing who knows how much radiation. Mass animal deaths happening globally without cause. The New Madrid Fault line is being tampered with. The conduit is closing.

Atticus or no, do we really need more reason to prepare?

China preparing for war ?? Bullsh1t.
Where do you get this information from ? MSN ? Fox news ? the good 'ol US government ?
For your information, China is openly and genuinely non-aggresive and DOES NOT invade other peoples countries. The way that the USA will get people like you to accept a war against China is for them to pre-condition you into believing all sorts of rubbish and deflect your attention from what they're doing in the world. Don't believe me ? Look how many morons accepted the war against Afghanistan, Iraq, Yemen, Pakistan. Not to mention Vietnam. How many times does this need to be hammered home ? NOW THAT THE USA HAS REMOVED OSAMA BIN LADEN FROM YOUR MINDS, THEY NEED TO FIND A NEW "ENEMY" FOR THEM TO GENEROUSLY PROTECT YOU FROM. The evidence is actually there for you, right now !! Have they stopped their phoney "war on terror" ? No, as you can see from today's posts, God's holy government is now busy protecting people from ..... BABIES !!!!! This is all going to be stepped up, they will conjure up all sorts of imaginary threats, from China, North Korea (a puny, backward little country which is about as much threat to world peace as the recently perfectly-fu**ing-legally sexually assaulted baby) and of course the one you REALLY need to be aware of - "Homeland terrorists". Yes folks, that's YOU, anyone with a brain.
We are constantly bombarded with disinformation; to make us scared, to make us forget who we are, to divert attention from the things they don't want you to know about.
And before any of you point this out to me .......
Yes, I bloody well know that 45 minutes ago I said that people need to have their buttons pressed and look what's happened - someone's pressed mine !!! hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
God, I love being being human !!
Tail-between-legs and totally NON apologetic - Philip

[PurpleLama]

We cultivate our personal reality, as we live in a tapestry of time and space we change threads according to what we have allowed to grow in our own consciousness. To some this seems very abstract but to others, at least a few, this is seen as a very concrete thing in a reality that is abstract with only the appearance of substance. Therefore I cultivate peace in my home, in my workplace, with my friends, family and acquaintances, and I tell you, for me and those who share my personal reality, we will not see destruction on a massive scale. My information could be called "intuitive", I won't be more specific, so take it or leave it, please, as you will. For me, there will be no extinction level event. To my perspective, it has been tried, by the PTB or the 33 or whatever you want to conceptualize, it has been tried, and they failed, oh, if only this and that were different, it would have worked, so they try again, and again, and yet again. And humanity lives on, uncontrolled for the most part in spite of how controlled they would like for you to think you are. Every second we make a choice, in how we think, in how we feel, in how we do. It's our choice in how we choose to be. The plan has failed, is failing, will continue to fail, for no power can deny the will of Creator, and believe me, Creator has no intention of seeing humanity wiped out to serve the purpose of a few sick individuals. Not in my reality, not on my watch.

The nefarious PTB often put the truth right out front, and then smile at the fact that we don't "get it". By all accounts, Dark Lords of the Sith are a nasty bunch. Sorry, I can't help but wonder, seeing the tactics used, ostensibly to help us.

[Agape]

Agape, who are you speaking to? I can't seem to find who here is endlessly touting the world is going to end. All I can seem to find is caution to prepare for a coming event -- of which, there are a number, and none of which appear to be world enders.

Coming event, interesting, hmm, do you have it confirmed from your own intelligence, faith, secret resources ?

I can see quite few high level folks parrotting about it , one like another, each new 'whistleblower' confirms something with the previous ones so it all nicely fits, how well done . How many of them do really KNOW the truth
instead of repeating some crooked hearsay ..

Sure it's so easy to become 'whistleblower celebrities' and it only proves that they are fine, exposed to public and having chats big way.

Sure there's 0,01 % probability that something happens any time and you or I do not know the hour,
at the same time ..I know perfectly there's no such an event on the way in near time, speaking in terms of this century for example ,
not anything of the sort to be getting people ready for but there are much more important issues to sort out for humanity

and some of these doomsayers are really faking it all.

[Lord Sidious]

I certainly do ! I'm beginning to think that the only way to get someone to take a good hard look at themselves is to push their buttons really hard ( and this is an accepted, if debated, therapeutic tool) and even when we are all able to move on, the process doesn't stop.
I look forward to sharing more with you. ;)

If you recall, I said I didn't start out with this plan, it developed.
After I figured out what I had to do, I did indeed push bill's buttons very hard as I thought that would be the only way I could get him to pay attention and react, thereby proving my point.
Not for pointscoring, but so that he couldn't deny to himself and us.
However, in a conversation with Dennis Leahy, he pointed out that was counterproductive because of the button pushing already going on with nexus and stuff.
He was right, so I changed my tactics, as you do.


Well my Lord that is welcome news indeed I must say, I for one am very interested in hearing what atticus has to say and am happy that he has not given up on us.

I also thank you for your tenacity and am grateful for your ability to articulate and remain calm ..... it make a refreshing change :)

It is time to move on and I would like to be one of the first to join you in your call for peace, I hope that many others will do the same and Be the Change..........

There is much to do and very little time please let us all heal this awful divide and move on, after all we all want the same thing.

:peace:

much love x

This thread has been a learning experience for me too.
I am not by nature a pacifist, but I had to practise that on the thread for the common good, that taught me a lot too.
And yes, we all want the same thing, so being in different camps is not a good thing.



Lord Sid,

I dont want anyone to suffer, regardless of whether I know them or not. But neither do I want to be a fool that believes in something just because someone says so - a dilemna!

blue

I don't think that it is a dilemma, it is a self defence mechanism that smart, aware people have.
I too don't feel believing someone because they say x is a good thing.
We will work on the info over time, without any type of deal where you have to believe because x says so.


I don't know if we have to wait for anyone to reveal anything. I don't know why people insist on dangling carrots in front of donkeys. I don't know.

I do think that enough has been released to show we need to prepare... the pole shift has been progressing, the suns been releasing who knows what which is changing at least the physical structure of matter, an asteroid body is heading towards a close shave with Earth and may have ET's tagging along or is simply being touted as such for a possible false flag.

China is preparing for war, sending ground troops into Turkey, in addition to it's already stationed air force, testing it's tech, etc. Israel is preparing placate Palestine so it can focus on war with Iran. America is all over the place, even invading Libya, and is in its early stages on Syria.

Wikileaks releases info saying Taliban will release a nuclear hellstorm is Osama is killed, only a few days before he is touted as such. Fukushima is still releasing who knows how much radiation. Mass animal deaths happening globally without cause. The New Madrid Fault line is being tampered with. The conduit is closing.

Atticus or no, do we really need more reason to prepare?

I am not dangling carrots, although it can be seen that way.
As for the rest of your post, I agree, I would have thought it was common sense, but that is one thing that is not common.


I can only see Sid that the forum has issues and agendas , and follow-ships and saviours of the world ,
I'm sure there are quite couple of folks here who belong to that category .

The chief problem as I see it is that we are not able to communicate together, enjoy each others spirituality,
intelligence and make sense of each other .

It's either follow him or follow me, I am not here to follow anyone sorry and not asking anyone to follow me.

I am the bearer of knowledge that is unique and was entrusted to me and I'm sovereign being.
It does not mean that I do no mistakes or do not appreciate advice,

but what sense does it all make to you here ?

Are you all Bill's followers or Charles followers or someone elses followers ?


Is it what it is about here instead of truth and research ?

:alien:

Of course there are agendas, people are involved and that is a natural thing.
It is harmful agendas that we should be wary of.
I agree on the communication topic as I am one that has issues at times getting across what I really mean in text.
And the 18 are not anyones followers, we are the 18, Atticus is one of us and equal to us.




We need to prepare for a cataclysm on the scale, but not of the same type, that killed off the dinosaurs.
I know very little at this point of exact details of what is coming. I am learning and willing to inform others, that is part of what Atticus/Charles mission is now.

Well with that bombshell, I hope your ready for a barrage of questions to come flying your way!

Many members here have doubts concerning the Charles' material ? If the plan includes to save all.. how does He plan to regain the trust that's deteriorated since his departure?

For the record - I personally found Charles was honest and showed a lot of integrity.

If I had an issue with people asking, I would not have put this up there, nor would I have told you about my part with Atticus.
For me, I only plan on ''saving'' those around me, the rest I can only put the info out for them to peruse and consider.
I am not a ''jesus the christ'' and I can't save all humanity, I don't have that right or the skills needed.
Atticus is honest and does indeed have integrity and is very easy to like.


All I read on these new age forums is how we are to get ready for great calamities, it's certainly 'very new' , very claustrophobic society expecting the worlds end.

It's 60% of the underlying content here including Charles statements ,

doomsday vault really.

What is the use of any good information to you ? Of course, it does not look like that first hands and more over,
it's total nonsense,
none of this is going to happen but there will always be factions who will hope for that it does happen and getting their sheeple ready.

Sorry, I am not sure what you mean.
Could you explain please?


Agape, who are you speaking to? I can't seem to find who here is endlessly touting the world is going to end. All I can seem to find is caution to prepare for a coming event -- of which, there are a number, and none of which appear to be world enders.

It's ok W.C, don't stress, this will all play out, we will figure out what we all mean and then we can get down to the action.



I don't know if we have to wait for anyone to reveal anything. I don't know why people insist on dangling carrots in front of donkeys. I don't know.

I do think that enough has been released to show we need to prepare... the pole shift has been progressing, the suns been releasing who knows what which is changing at least the physical structure of matter, an asteroid body is heading towards a close shave with Earth and may have ET's tagging along or is simply being touted as such for a possible false flag.

China is preparing for war, sending ground troops into Turkey, in addition to it's already stationed air force, testing it's tech, etc. Israel is preparing placate Palestine so it can focus on war with Iran. America is all over the place, even invading Libya, and is in its early stages on Syria.

Wikileaks releases info saying Taliban will release a nuclear hellstorm is Osama is killed, only a few days before he is touted as such. Fukushima is still releasing who knows how much radiation. Mass animal deaths happening globally without cause. The New Madrid Fault line is being tampered with. The conduit is closing.

Atticus or no, do we really need more reason to prepare?

China preparing for war ?? Bullsh1t.
Where do you get this information from ? MSN ? Fox news ? the good 'ol US government ?
For your information, China is openly and genuinely non-aggresive and DOES NOT invade other peoples countries. The way that the USA will get people like you to accept a war against China is for them to pre-condition you into believing all sorts of rubbish and deflect your attention from what they're doing in the world. Don't believe me ? Look how many morons accepted the war against Afghanistan, Iraq, Yemen, Pakistan. Not to mention Vietnam. How many times does this need to be hammered home ? NOW THAT THE USA HAS REMOVED OSAMA BIN LADEN FROM YOUR MINDS, THEY NEED TO FIND A NEW "ENEMY" FOR THEM TO GENEROUSLY PROTECT YOU FROM. The evidence is actually there for you, right now !! Have they stopped their phoney "war on terror" ? No, as you can see from today's posts, God's holy government is now busy protecting people from ..... BABIES !!!!! This is all going to be stepped up, they will conjure up all sorts of imaginary threats, from China, North Korea (a puny, backward little country which is about as much threat to world peace as the recently perfectly-fu**ing-legally sexually assaulted baby) and of course the one you REALLY need to be aware of - "Homeland terrorists". Yes folks, that's YOU, anyone with a brain.
We are constantly bombarded with disinformation; to make us scared, to make us forget who we are, to divert attention from the things they don't want you to know about.
And before any of you point this out to me .......
Yes, I bloody well know that 45 minutes ago I said that people need to have their buttons pressed and look what's happened - someone's pressed mine !!! hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
God, I love being being human !!
Tail-between-legs and totally NON apologetic - Philip

Get a haircut ya nugget. :p


By all accounts, Dark Lords of the Sith are a nasty bunch. Sorry, I can't help but wonder, seeing the tactics used, ostensibly to help us.

There is a time and place for nice.
And for nasty.
I can do both, it depends on the situation. I can be utterly ruthless if I have to protect those I care about and I have been and will be again.
You can believe I want to help and extend that to Atticus and the 18 to, or not.
I will not try to convince you either way, but I would suggest that you keep an open mind and allow yourself the opportunity to figure out what is going on.



Agape, who are you speaking to? I can't seem to find who here is endlessly touting the world is going to end. All I can seem to find is caution to prepare for a coming event -- of which, there are a number, and none of which appear to be world enders.

Coming event, interesting, hmm, do you have it confirmed from your own intelligence, faith, secret resources ?

I can see quite few high level folks parrotting about it , one like another, each new 'whistleblower' confirms something with the previous ones so it all nicely fits, how well done . How many of them do really KNOW the truth
instead of repeating some crooked hearsay ..

Sure it's so easy to become 'whistleblower celebrities' and it only proves that they are fine, exposed to public and having chats big way.

Sure there's 0,01 % probability that something happens any time and you or I do not know the hour,
at the same time ..I know perfectly there's no such an event on the way in near time, speaking in terms of this century for example ,
not anything of the sort to be getting people ready for but there are much more important issues to sort out for humanity

and some of these doomsayers are really faking it all.

Seeing as I am talking of a future event, I can't tell you that I KNOW it is coming, because that would be contradictory.
Let me put this to you, I have Atticus, Germaine and a bloodline behind me.
Do you think they may know?

[Agape]

The agenda is succesfully pushing people who have something else to say to corner ,
there are presumptions superimposed on facts place sir,

and yourself you have no proof of what these people are saying
still dwell on that.
For what's sake ? What they've shown to you ,
psychic abilities and interesting theories I've seen elsewhere.
It does not prove that these people are correct .

You don't know and force everyone to the same category, you even don't suppose that anyone KNOWS, so for what's sake did I come here ?



I'm sure Bill knows it's a question for him.




:yo:

[mosquito]

I can only see Sid that the forum has issues and agendas , and follow-ships and saviours of the world ,
I'm sure there are quite couple of folks here who belong to that category .

The chief problem as I see it is that we are not able to communicate together, enjoy each others spirituality,
intelligence and make sense of each other .

It's either follow him or follow me, I am not here to follow anyone sorry and not asking anyone to follow me.

I am the bearer of knowledge that is unique and was entrusted to me and I'm sovereign being.
It does not mean that I do no mistakes or do not appreciate advice,

but what sense does it all make to you here ?

Are you all Bill's followers or Charles followers or someone elses followers ?


Is it what it is about here instead of truth and research ?





:alien:
A good point, but please allow me to point something out - we are not all sitting in a circle, facing one another, looking into each other's souls. We're all sitting at keyboards, spread across mutiple timezones and hidden behind anonymous usernames. This is an intrinsically dishonest way of communicating, but it's what we've got and we have to make the most of it.
Looking through the Avalon forum, one can't help but notice a trend : Fred writes something wonderful - 3 people thank him, Sally says something wonderful - 10 people thank her, Bill writes one sentence - 347 people thank him. Hmmmm, maybe there is some sycophancy going on here, but I think you'll find that anywhere, and it's no reflection on Bill, it's human nature. I hope I speak for the majority when I say we aren't following ANYONE, we're here because we're sick of that particular game thank you. That being said, we as humans do still, occasionally need some sort of leadership. (Do you really want to get on board a plane where the pilot has absolutely no idea where you're going ?)
I think it's time I went to bed, others among you are no doubt waking up to a bright new day and wondering what's in store on the Avalon forum !
Enjoy !

[Agape]

Seeing as I am talking of a future event, I can't tell you that I KNOW it is coming, because that would be contradictory.
Let me put this to you, I have Atticus, Germaine and a bloodline behind me.
Do you think they may know?


I don't want to be insensitive to you Sid or those behind you but from truths' perspective and birds eye,
no, it does not mean or prove anything.


I know lots of folks with good bloodlines who would not agree and say, will never agree with you on that perspective.


:angel:

[Lord Sidious]

The agenda is succesfully pushing people who have something else to say to corner ,
there are presumptions superimposed on facts place sir,

and yourself you have no proof of what these people are saying
still dwell on that.
For what's sake ? What they've shown to you ,
psychic abilities and interesting theories I've seen elsewhere.
It does not prove that these people are correct .

You don't know and force everyone to the same category, you even don't suppose that anyone KNOWS, so for what's sake did I come here ?



I'm sure Bill knows it's a question for him.




:yo:

I did say that I don't KNOW, yes?
Let me put this to you then, if you have something to say, other than questioning, why not put it up like I am trying to do?
So far, I find some of your posts counterproductive.
You speak of things, provide nothing and say that I am pushing people into a corner.
I am confused as to what you are trying to achieve.



I can only see Sid that the forum has issues and agendas , and follow-ships and saviours of the world ,
I'm sure there are quite couple of folks here who belong to that category .

The chief problem as I see it is that we are not able to communicate together, enjoy each others spirituality,
intelligence and make sense of each other .

It's either follow him or follow me, I am not here to follow anyone sorry and not asking anyone to follow me.

I am the bearer of knowledge that is unique and was entrusted to me and I'm sovereign being.
It does not mean that I do no mistakes or do not appreciate advice,

but what sense does it all make to you here ?

Are you all Bill's followers or Charles followers or someone elses followers ?


Is it what it is about here instead of truth and research ?

:alien:
A good point, but please allow me to point something out - we are not all sitting in a circle, facing one another, looking into each other's souls. We're all sitting at keyboards, spread across mutiple timezones and hidden behind anonymous usernames. This is an intrinsically dishonest way of communicating, but it's what we've got and we have to make the most of it.
Looking through the Avalon forum, one can't help but notice a trend : Fred writes something wonderful - 3 people thank him, Sally says something wonderful - 10 people thank her, Bill writes one sentence - 347 people thank him. Hmmmm, maybe there is some sycophancy going on here, but I think you'll find that anywhere, and it's no reflection on Bill, it's human nature. I hope I speak for the majority when I say we aren't following ANYONE, we're here because we're sick of that particular game thank you. That being said, we as humans do still, occasionally need some sort of leadership. (Do you really want to get on board a plane where the pilot has absolutely no idea where you're going ?)
I think it's time I went to bed, others among you are no doubt waking up to a bright new day and wondering what's in store on the Avalon forum !
Enjoy !

Thanks for that, very true, all of it.
Sleep well.



Seeing as I am talking of a future event, I can't tell you that I KNOW it is coming, because that would be contradictory.
Let me put this to you, I have Atticus, Germaine and a bloodline behind me.
Do you think they may know?


I don't want to be insensitive to you Sid or those behind you but from truths' perspective and birds eye,
no, it does not mean or prove anything.


I know lots of folks with good bloodlines who would not agree and say, will never agree with you on that perspective.


:angel:

You can be insensitive as much as you need to be, that isn't a problem, I can take it.
And I don't want you to agree with me if you do not want to.
But I would appreciate less mystery about where you stand and what you are trying to say.

[W.C.]

China preparing for war ?? [...]
Where do you get this information from ?

Chi Haotian's allegedly touted where he shouldn't have -- but that's neither here nor there. America forces China's hand a little too much, and China simply reacts accordingly. China is preparing for war though, there is hardly a nation that isn't.

I can message you a number of sources you might find interesting, if you are so inclined.



Agape, who are you speaking to? I can't seem to find who here is endlessly touting the world is going to end. All I can seem to find is caution to prepare for a coming event -- of which, there are a number, and none of which appear to be world enders.

Coming event, interesting, hmm, do you have it confirmed from your own intelligence, faith, secret resources ?

I can see quite few high level folks parrotting about it , one like another, each new 'whistleblower' confirms something with the previous ones so it all nicely fits, how well done . How many of them do really KNOW the truth
instead of repeating some crooked hearsay ..

Sure it's so easy to become 'whistleblower celebrities' and it only proves that they are fine, exposed to public and having chats big way.

Sure there's 0,01 % probability that something happens any time and you or I do not know the hour,
at the same time ..I know perfectly there's no such an event on the way in near time, speaking in terms of this century for example ,
not anything of the sort to be getting people ready for but there are much more important issues to sort out for humanity

and some of these doomsayers are really faking it all.

Sure, the majority of 'disclosure' of events hold as much water as the sun. But events come everyday. I don't imagine you are insisting nothing will happen tomorrow, in the next second, etc. An interesting point is that sometimes events occur only because they were predicted, as someone hears something they feel they can exploit and do so -- and in these instances, while the events were predicted, the cause is usually blamed on those innocent to the events.

In any case, it doesn't hurt to gather what information one deems relevant and prepare where one deems it reasonable to.

No one knows any truth, I don't even know this, but I feel that at most there can only be search for understanding, as even if a truth is known, or known by chance, we cannot be certain we know it.

Quid pro quo.



I don't know if we have to wait for anyone to reveal anything. I don't know why people insist on dangling carrots in front of donkeys. I don't know.

I do think that enough has been released to show we need to prepare... the pole shift has been progressing, the suns been releasing who knows what which is changing at least the physical structure of matter, an asteroid body is heading towards a close shave with Earth and may have ET's tagging along or is simply being touted as such for a possible false flag.

China is preparing for war, sending ground troops into Turkey, in addition to it's already stationed air force, testing it's tech, etc. Israel is preparing placate Palestine so it can focus on war with Iran. America is all over the place, even invading Libya, and is in its early stages on Syria.

Wikileaks releases info saying Taliban will release a nuclear hellstorm is Osama is killed, only a few days before he is touted as such. Fukushima is still releasing who knows how much radiation. Mass animal deaths happening globally without cause. The New Madrid Fault line is being tampered with. The conduit is closing.

Atticus or no, do we really need more reason to prepare?

I am not dangling carrots, although it can be seen that way.
As for the rest of your post, I agree, I would have thought it was common sense, but that is one thing that is not common.

Oh, I apologise Lord Sidious, I did not mean you.



Agape, who are you speaking to? I can't seem to find who here is endlessly touting the world is going to end. All I can seem to find is caution to prepare for a coming event -- of which, there are a number, and none of which appear to be world enders.

It's ok W.C, don't stress, this will all play out, we will figure out what we all mean and then we can get down to the action.

I agree, but I would very much feel better understood if it wasn't assumed I am stressing.

Great posts and discussion, in any case. Thank you for sharing so much of your time here.

[Agape]

I did say that I don't KNOW, yes?
Let me put this to you then, if you have something to say, other than questioning, why not put it up like I am trying to do?
So far, I find some of your posts counterproductive.
You speak of things, provide nothing and say that I am pushing people into a corner.
I am confused as to what you are trying to achieve.


I've said clearly that the posting was addressed to Bill.

If I have something to say other than questioning ? There's still the ET Origins of Mankind subboard here ,

but if you're indoctrined one way or another , which includes not only old style religious and scientific views but unfortunatelly also your course of 'new age' disinformation,

you will never find me .




A good point, but please allow me to point something out - we are not all sitting in a circle, facing one another, looking into each other's souls. We're all sitting at keyboards, spread across mutiple timezones and hidden behind anonymous usernames. This is an intrinsically dishonest way of communicating, but it's what we've got and we have to make the most of it.
Looking through the Avalon forum, one can't help but notice a trend : Fred writes something wonderful - 3 people thank him, Sally says something wonderful - 10 people thank her, Bill writes one sentence - 347 people thank him. Hmmmm, maybe there is some sycophancy going on here, but I think you'll find that anywhere, and it's no reflection on Bill, it's human nature. I hope I speak for the majority when I say we aren't following ANYONE, we're here because we're sick of that particular game thank you. That being said, we as humans do still, occasionally need some sort of leadership. (Do you really want to get on board a plane where the pilot has absolutely no idea where you're going ?)
I think it's time I went to bed, others among you are no doubt waking up to a bright new day and wondering what's in store on the Avalon forum !
Enjoy !

It's rather correct ..:hug:


You can be insensitive as much as you need to be, that isn't a problem, I can take it.
And I don't want you to agree with me if you do not want to.
But I would appreciate less mystery about where you stand and what you are trying to say.



There's one or two long threads of debate attached to the report Barry King has released , with truly kind and open hearted intents and if anyone here thinks,

that he or me are doing this all for each others pleasure

you understand very little indeed and don't say I did not explain myself .



I don't make many comments and writing long articles tires me . It does not mean I don't want to explain myself , there's lots to read already .

If you're not able to understand it and ask in a case you don't, don't blame me .



;)

[Charlie Pecos]

5-10 years? Hmmmmm, isn't today, 5-11-11, the end of the world? Or if not then 5-21-11? Or 11-11-11? Surely the world will end on 12-21-12!

If I'm not mistaken, didn't Atticus say that the 18 would have complete disclosure? Rob, please don't misunderstand, I like and appreciate you and your contributions here. It doesn't sound at all as though you have received complete disclosure from Atticus. Correct me if I'm wrong. Like NancyV, I have grown tired of predictions of doom and gloom. Whatever happens, happens. No fear. No regrets. I am not afraid to die, it will happen one day irregardless of the machinations of those who think they are in control. "All the world is a stage and we are merely players, performers and portrayers".

Those who think they are in control will find out they are not in control.

There are far more powerful forces in the universe than those who think they control this paradigm.

Respectfully, there is no need to prepare beyond what we are internally guided to do. Everything we have ever needed has been provided to us, even before we knew we needed it. It will continue for the rest of our days on this earth. We manifest our own personal realities, if we want disaster, then so shall it be.

[PurpleLama]

I appreciate the suggestion to keep an open mind, but at the same time you don't really know who exactly is on the other side of the keyboard. Such appears to be the nature of internet forums.

As for Atticus, Germaine, and all the rest: No, I am positive they don't. You see, there are lots of truths, and one Truth. The closer your personal truth is to being in alignment with the Truth, the more it will just stand on it's own, the less it will change from one timeline to the next. I have alot of confidence in the higher ups in making sure that everyone on this sphere have the maximum opportunity to evolve, and no one entity, or group of entities will prevent that or pervert it to their own ends. If time is limited then it is far better spent loving those around us rather than preparing for (inviting) some vague fortelling of doom.

[Agape]

Sure, the majority of 'disclosure' of events hold as much water as the sun. But events come everyday. I don't imagine you are insisting nothing will happen tomorrow, in the next second, etc. An interesting point is that sometimes events occur only because they were predicted, as someone hears something they feel they can exploit and do so -- and in these instances, while the events were predicted, the cause is usually blamed on those innocent to the events.

In any case, it doesn't hurt to gather what information one deems relevant and prepare where one deems it reasonable to.

No one knows any truth, I don't even know this, but I feel that at most there can only be search for understanding, as even if a truth is known, or known by chance, we cannot be certain we know it.

Quid pro quo.





No one knows any truth is what your current stream of expanded materialistic dogma that doubts any inherited substance of intelligence in the Universe teaches and preaches .

It takes small quantum leap I believe to jump beyond the standard views you were taught here and explored

and arrive not in the mid-air but on the next solid platform of knowing where you can stand and walk without so many doubts.




:yo:

[K626]

[QUOTE=Lord Sidious;215872][QUOTE=mondaze;215868]a clear outline of your take on atticus would be helpful rob, did he give you more information?[/QU

IF something huge happens within the next 5-10 years survival is going to be very personal for each family or small group. Living in or near a big city would be extremely dangerous. If you live in the country but there is a large city within 50-100 miles you will be in the path of many people leaving and trying to survive in any way they can. That would mean taking whatever they could take from those who have anything they can use. If you live out in the country it won't be good enough just to have a garden and be able to fish and hunt, you will need a LOT of ammo and weapons to defend yourself and your family.

The most logical thing for THEM to use would be an airobourne virus and hold back the anitidote. And don't think they don't have a few to pick from NancyV. But nothing will happen
till the markets crash as every unit of profit will first be sucked out inc asset grabs, water and mineral rights etc..
When the wider pop are sick it will be difficult for society and industry to continue and get taxed and so on...So, watch the markets and in particular China.

Peace

K

[Lord Sidious]

I don't know if we have to wait for anyone to reveal anything. I don't know why people insist on dangling carrots in front of donkeys. I don't know.

I do think that enough has been released to show we need to prepare... the pole shift has been progressing, the suns been releasing who knows what which is changing at least the physical structure of matter, an asteroid body is heading towards a close shave with Earth and may have ET's tagging along or is simply being touted as such for a possible false flag.

China is preparing for war, sending ground troops into Turkey, in addition to it's already stationed air force, testing it's tech, etc. Israel is preparing placate Palestine so it can focus on war with Iran. America is all over the place, even invading Libya, and is in its early stages on Syria.

Wikileaks releases info saying Taliban will release a nuclear hellstorm is Osama is killed, only a few days before he is touted as such. Fukushima is still releasing who knows how much radiation. Mass animal deaths happening globally without cause. The New Madrid Fault line is being tampered with. The conduit is closing.

Atticus or no, do we really need more reason to prepare?

I am not dangling carrots, although it can be seen that way.
As for the rest of your post, I agree, I would have thought it was common sense, but that is one thing that is not common.

Oh, I apologise Lord Sidious, I did not mean you.

Ok, no worries, no need for apologies.



It's ok W.C, don't stress, this will all play out, we will figure out what we all mean and then we can get down to the action.

I agree, but I would very much feel better understood if it wasn't assumed I am stressing.

Great posts and discussion, in any case. Thank you for sharing so much of your time here.

I was just saying, but you are right, I made the assumption.
Part of my role in the 18 is to get info out.
I did do that before I joined as well.




I did say that I don't KNOW, yes?
Let me put this to you then, if you have something to say, other than questioning, why not put it up like I am trying to do?
So far, I find some of your posts counterproductive.
You speak of things, provide nothing and say that I am pushing people into a corner.
I am confused as to what you are trying to achieve.


I've said clearly that the posting was addressed to Bill.

If I have something to say other than questioning ? There's still the ET Origins of Mankind subboard here ,

but if you're indoctrined one way or another , which includes not only old style religious and scientific views but unfortunatelly also your course of 'new age' disinformation,

you will never find me .




A good point, but please allow me to point something out - we are not all sitting in a circle, facing one another, looking into each other's souls. We're all sitting at keyboards, spread across mutiple timezones and hidden behind anonymous usernames. This is an intrinsically dishonest way of communicating, but it's what we've got and we have to make the most of it.
Looking through the Avalon forum, one can't help but notice a trend : Fred writes something wonderful - 3 people thank him, Sally says something wonderful - 10 people thank her, Bill writes one sentence - 347 people thank him. Hmmmm, maybe there is some sycophancy going on here, but I think you'll find that anywhere, and it's no reflection on Bill, it's human nature. I hope I speak for the majority when I say we aren't following ANYONE, we're here because we're sick of that particular game thank you. That being said, we as humans do still, occasionally need some sort of leadership. (Do you really want to get on board a plane where the pilot has absolutely no idea where you're going ?)
I think it's time I went to bed, others among you are no doubt waking up to a bright new day and wondering what's in store on the Avalon forum !
Enjoy !

It's rather correct ..:hug:


You can be insensitive as much as you need to be, that isn't a problem, I can take it.
And I don't want you to agree with me if you do not want to.
But I would appreciate less mystery about where you stand and what you are trying to say.



There's one or two long threads of debate attached to the report Barry King has released , with truly kind and open hearted intents and if anyone here thinks,

that he or me are doing this all for each others pleasure

you understand very little indeed and don't say I did not explain myself .



I don't make many comments and writing long articles tires me . It does not mean I don't want to explain myself , there's lots to read already .

If you're not able to understand it and ask in a case you don't, don't blame me .



;)

I did see you refer to Bill, I thought you were including us both.

Are you assuming I am a new ager? :eek:

And I do indeed comprehend little of what you have said in this thread, mainly because to me, it is jumbled around and not easily readable.
Not sure why I would ''blame'' you for anything, but that is ok, too.


5-10 years? Hmmmmm, isn't today, 5-11-11, the end of the world? Or if not then 5-21-11? Or 11-11-11? Surely the world will end on 12-21-12!

If I'm not mistaken, didn't Atticus say that the 18 would have complete disclosure? Rob, please don't misunderstand, I like and appreciate you and your contributions here. It doesn't sound at all as though you have received complete disclosure from Atticus. Correct me if I'm wrong. Like NancyV, I have grown tired of predictions of doom and gloom. Whatever happens, happens. No fear. No regrets. I am not afraid to die, it will happen one day irregardless of the machinations of those who think they are in control. "All the world is a stage and we are merely players, performers and portrayers". Those who think they are in control will find out they are not in control.

There are far more powerful forces in the universe than those who think they control this paradigm.

Respectfully, there is no need to prepare beyond what we are internally guided to do. Everything we have ever needed has been provided to us, even before we knew we needed it. It will continue for the rest of our days on this earth. We manifest our own personal realities, if we want disaster, then so shall it be.

I don't have all the details yet myself, how could I possibly ever disclose that which I do not have?
And I did post that at least once already.
There are forces out there that make the nuggets here nothing.
And we do need to heal the rifts in these forums for people to have closure on issues so that we are all ready to move forward.
Or those that are interested can, anyways.
And you don't have to preface your words to me, I know that you aren't a nugget, ok?
Nugget.


I appreciate the suggestion to keep an open mind, but at the same time you don't really know who exactly is on the other side of the keyboard. Such appears to be the nature of internet forums.

As for Atticus, Germaine, and all the rest: No, I am positive they don't. You see, there are lots of truths, and one Truth. The closer your personal truth is to being in alignment with the Truth, the more it will just stand on it's own, the less it will change from one timeline to the next. I have alot of confidence in the higher ups in making sure that everyone on this sphere have the maximum opportunity to evolve, and no one entity, or group of entities will prevent that or pervert it to their own ends. If time is limited then it is far better spent loving those around us rather than preparing for (inviting) some vague fortelling of doom.

All good points indeed.
How would you be positive that Atticus and co are x? Did you meet them? Talk with them?
You have made a judgement with no info, that isn't a good basis to work from.
I agree with the rest of your post, but I would say that what is vague to you now, will not be later.
You will get full disclosure of what Atticus knows, as soon as that can happen.

[magicmanx]

Hi there LS

Now that we know you are one of the 18 when do we get to know who the others are and what is your time scale on all of this new info to be given.

Thank you :)

[Lord Sidious]

Hi there LS

Now that we know you are one of the 18 when do we get to know who the others are and what is your time scale on all of this new info to be given.

Thank you :)

Hello there Manx.
I don't have the right to reveal the ID of the others, only myself, privacy you see.
As for a timeline, I am not sure entirely, but I suspect in the next few weeks we will begin.

[Agape]

I did see you refer to Bill, I thought you were including us both.

Are you assuming I am a new ager?

And I do indeed comprehend little of what you have said in this thread, mainly because to me, it is jumbled around and not easily readable.
Not sure why I would ''blame'' you for anything, but that is ok, too.



Dear Sid,

you are not a new comer to this forum so you probably know where the gist of where 'I'm coming from' is situated on this board .


I don't feel fine speaking against the majority of voices who know nothing about me and dare to say, do not care .


I am perfectly sure the way you are reading me now is 'your way' and it's nothing to do with me. Can you take that much ? Thanks.




Another time :angel:

[Lord Sidious]

I did see you refer to Bill, I thought you were including us both.

Are you assuming I am a new ager?

And I do indeed comprehend little of what you have said in this thread, mainly because to me, it is jumbled around and not easily readable.
Not sure why I would ''blame'' you for anything, but that is ok, too.



Dear Sid,

you are not a new comer to this forum so you probably know where the gist of where 'I'm coming from' is situated on this board .


I don't feel fine speaking against the majority of voices who know nothing about me and dare to say, do not care .


I am perfectly sure the way you are reading me now is 'your way' and it's nothing to do with me. Can you take that much ? Thanks.




Another time :angel:

If I am reading you, then yes, that is about me, not you.

[Blue]

Lord Sid,

You say "Atticus is honest and does indeed have integrity and is very easy to like". This is what I am wondering about. . . .is it because he is so easy to like that makes his information easier to take on board and to accept it with maybe less discenrment than say if he was an absolutely obnoxious and generally horrible? Would you believe him if he was horrible to you? (I feel wierd to be talking about him in the third tense, no dis-respect intended).

blue

[Lord Sidious]

Lord Sid,

You say "Atticus is honest and does indeed have integrity and is very easy to like". This is what I am wondering about. . . .is it because he is so easy to like that makes his information easier to take on board and to accept it with maybe less discenrment than say if he was an absolutely obnoxious and generally horrible? Would you believe him if he was horrible to you? (I feel wierd to be talking about him in the third tense, no dis-respect intended).

blue

It probably is easier, yes.
Why would I accept this with no input of my own?
Or the rest of the 18?
We all have our skills and our opinions.

[PurpleLama]

LS, I woulk kindly invite you to read the posts I have written in this thread again, perhaps a little more carefully. Is seems foolish to suggest that I have made a judgement without information. Really very little judgment was needed for me to arrive at my perspective. Inspiration, perhaps, would be a better word.

[Lord Sidious]

LS, I woulk kindly invite you to read the posts I have written in this thread again, perhaps a little more carefully. Is seems foolish to suggest that I have made a judgement without information. Really very little judgment was needed for me to arrive at my perspective. Inspiration, perhaps, would be a better word.

I can't argue with you, I don't know you, nor do I know what you are capable of.
All I am saying is that I don't know Germaine or the others, there is no way you can, so how can you be positive?
That was my point and it wasn't meant in a way to denigrate or attack you, rather to push your button to get a reply that may fill in more detail.

[magicmanx]

Thank you LS for your reply ( post#351 )

That makes absolute sense......

Now..... we have a few weeks to get this right for a jump off. What do you suggest we should as a group (s) Forum (s) be doing to prepare?

Thank you :)

[Lord Sidious]

Thank you LS for your reply ( post#351 )

That makes absolute sense......

Now..... we have a few weeks to get this right for a jump off. What do you suggest we should as a group (s) Forum (s) be doing to prepare?

Thank you :)

First thing?
Work on Bill, he needs our help to grow.
If we can help him get past his issue, things will be easier for all of us.
Secondly? The three forums members need to work together to bring reconciliation to all.
By that time, you are ready.

[Mad Hatter]

How are you going to survive

Assuming a flight (before maybe a fight?) scenario becomes necessary, then given the abject lesson regarding communication this thread has presented so far, it becomes blatantly obvious that no matter which community one found oneself in, an extremely robust, communication based, conflict resolution process will be paramount...

Are we there yet??

[Lord Sidious]

How are you going to survive

Assuming a flight (before maybe a fight?) scenario becomes necessary, then given the abject lesson regarding communication this thread has presented so far, it becomes blatantly obvious that no matter which community one found oneself in, an extremely robust, communication based, conflict resolution process will be paramount...

Are we there yet??

Not yet, but we are a lot closer than we were two days ago.
We are getting there.
Don't leave Bill here, bring him too

[K626]

I've seriously evaluted downward the survival abilities of people (especially some in this thread). :p

Peace and Love

K

[Lord Sidious]

I've seriously evaluted downward the survival abilities of people (especially some in this thread). :p

Peace and Love

K

Don't count anyone out 626, ya nugget.

And Bill, I can see you down there, get in here around the campfire already.
I have a place reserved for you.

[thunder24]

I got the fish for the pan fry, campfire feels good

[Lord Sidious]

I got the fish for the pan fry, campfire feels good

You are in Tennessee, you better have Uncle Jack for your Uncle Sidious. :p

[Mad Hatter]

I've seriously evaluted downward the survival abilities of people (especially some in this thread). :p

Peace and Love

K

Do you perceive that as

1) Having been handed the hymn sheet they are actually unable to sing...
2) Having been handed the hymn sheet they are unable to sing in tune...
3) Having been handed the hymn sheet they can't read it...
4) Having been handed the hymn sheet they are unable to determine what it is...
5) or as is probably my case they are not even in the same room to recieve the hymn sheet... :p
6) None of the above....

[W.C.]

Sure, the majority of 'disclosure' of events hold as much water as the sun. But events come everyday. I don't imagine you are insisting nothing will happen tomorrow, in the next second, etc. An interesting point is that sometimes events occur only because they were predicted, as someone hears something they feel they can exploit and do so -- and in these instances, while the events were predicted, the cause is usually blamed on those innocent to the events.

In any case, it doesn't hurt to gather what information one deems relevant and prepare where one deems it reasonable to.

No one knows any truth, I don't even know this, but I feel that at most there can only be search for understanding, as even if a truth is known, or known by chance, we cannot be certain we know it.

Quid pro quo.



No one knows any truth is what your current stream of expanded materialistic dogma that doubts any inherited substance of intelligence in the Universe teaches and preaches .

It takes small quantum leap I believe to jump beyond the standard views you were taught here and explored

and arrive not in the mid-air but on the next solid platform of knowing where you can stand and walk without so many doubts.

It would appear our language (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?19790-Language) may be in a rather large conflict, with emphasis on definitions of knowledge and truth.

I recently noted in another thread that it takes a great intellect to be able to entertain an idea without fully accepting it. That when views solidify (when you're on a 'solid platform of knowing', as you call it) one becomes almost fanatical in ones belief to the point of insanity; as if any notion of opposition to their thought is below, incoherent to them. To me, your response is evidently a good example of this.

In my view, there is no 'next solid platform of knowing' if you know -- one cannot know anything without knowing the whole. It follows that one tends to walk solid platforms, before one learns to flow.

That one does not know the truth does not imply a mountain of doubt, but rather a readiness to discard a belief (or in your case, a knowledge, I imagine) when presented with what is the truth/actual knowledge. For instance:


In Buddhism, knowledge is regarded as an obstacle to understanding, like a block of ice that obstructs water from flowing. It is said that if we take one thing to be the truth and cling to it, even if truth itself comes in person and knocks at our door, we won't open it. For things to reveal themselves to us, we need to be ready to abandon our views about them.

Respect starts first, understanding follows after.

[Dennis Leahy]

Thank you LS for your reply ( post#351 )

That makes absolute sense......

Now..... we have a few weeks to get this right for a jump off. What do you suggest we should as a group (s) Forum (s) be doing to prepare?

Thank you :)

First thing?
Work on Bill, he needs our help to grow.
If we can help him get past his issue, things will be easier for all of us.
Secondly? The three forums members need to work together to bring reconciliation to all.
By that time, you are ready.


Hi Rob,

OK, the thread certainly has organically strayed from the original topic.

Sounds like you're now working on some 'preparedness' concepts for what Charles believes is a coming cataclysm. Sounds like a new topic to me, if you want to start a new thread for that it would make it easier than asking people to wade through 18 pages of meandering, agreed?

As to your first point, above: This is your subjective evaluation. While it is true that we all need to grow, that we're all human, and we all make mistakes, you seem to have latched on to your subjective psychoanalysis of Bill and are attempting to not only declare it as "the truth" but also to use your yardstick, your evaluation, as an obstacle in the path of getting around to working on some 'preparedness' concepts. So, if Bill doesn't feel he owes you an apology, you won't disclose how to find high ground in a flood? C'mon mate. This "issue" is your issue, not Avalon's and not Bill's. If you really have some information to share, let's get on with it and stop pretending this prevents you in any way from sharing information.

As for "the three forums" (the three of millions of forums that you have decided need to get together? What about the gardening forum I'm in?), this is again your concept, your idea of what "needs to be done", but it makes no sense. If you have information to disclose, and/or a strategy to survive a coming cataclysm, it makes a lot more sense to simply get the information out, and let it go viral if it will. That's the power of the Internet. We don't need one great big gigantic forum any more than we need a single humongous website to be the entire Internet. Another good example is that my little town used to have tremendous diversity of businesses, and was a strong community for it. Now, we have Walmart. One big forum for all alternative media? Yikes! Sounds a bit "New World Forum" to me!

So, your first two steps are immaterial to your stated mission. Please, let's not go round and round with that, and just drop the two artificial barriers you placed in the way of your disclosure/strategy planning. No one is in your way, except you. If you are serious about getting the word out about a coming cataclysm and how to be prepared, here's your challenge, if you decide to accept it: Do it. Disclose. Open a thread for discussion of strategies. If it resounds as valid, it will go viral.

If you accept the challenge:




• Please say whether you are Charles' spokesman on Avalon.
• Please state the protocols you are working under.
• Please state whether you are happy to answer specific questions without prevarication or evading the issues.


Dennis

[Lord Sidious]

Hi Rob,

OK, the thread certainly has organically strayed from the original topic.

Sounds like you're now working on some 'preparedness' concepts for what Charles believes is a coming cataclysm. Sounds like a new topic to me, if you want to start a new thread for that it would make it easier than asking people to wade through 18 pages of meandering, agreed?

As to your first point, above: This is your subjective evaluation. While it is true that we all need to grow, that we're all human, and we all make mistakes, you seem to have latched on to your subjective psychoanalysis of Bill and are attempting to not only declare it as "the truth" but also to use your yardstick, your evaluation, as an obstacle in the path of getting around to working on some 'preparedness' concepts. So, if Bill doesn't feel he owes you an apology, you won't disclose how to find high ground in a flood? C'mon mate. This "issue" is your issue, not Avalon's and not Bill's. If you really have some information to share, let's get on with it and stop pretending this prevents you in any way from sharing information.

As for "the three forums" (the three of millions of forums that you have decided need to get together? What about the gardening forum I'm in?), this is again your concept, your idea of what "needs to be done", but it makes no sense. If you have information to disclose, and/or a strategy to survive a coming cataclysm, it makes a lot more sense to simply get the information out, and let it go viral if it will. That's the power of the Internet. We don't need one great big gigantic forum any more than we need a single humongous website to be the entire Internet. Another good example is that my little town used to have tremendous diversity of businesses, and was a strong community for it. Now, we have Walmart. One big forum for all alternative media? Yikes! Sounds a bit "New World Forum" to me!

So, your first two steps are immaterial to your stated mission. Please, let's not go round and round with that, and just drop the two artificial barriers you placed in the way of your disclosure/strategy planning. No one is in your way, except you. If you are serious about getting the word out about a coming cataclysm and how to be prepared, here's your challenge, if you decide to accept it: Do it. Disclose. Open a thread for discussion of strategies. If it resounds as valid, it will go viral.

If you accept the challenge:




• Please say whether you are Charles' spokesman on Avalon.
• Please state the protocols you are working under.
• Please state whether you are happy to answer specific questions without prevarication or evading the issues.


Dennis

You seem to have made a few assumptions there yourself rather than ask me about it, but that is ok.
I am not a spokesman, although Atticus knows what I am saying and doing and approves.

If you truly believe that what I am wrong about bill, that is your opinion.
You are turning the conflict back on, when it was over.
What is YOUR goal with YOUR posts?
Defending bill is not doing him a favour, he has been dodging this for a while and you are helping him to keep that going.
I did make a judgement on bill and move on from that.
Now, others are agreeing so I may be not that far off.
Please don't be a nugget and make strawman arguments in a serious thread Dennis, you are better than that. I refer to the comment about three forums.
You are a bright man, I know that, so I think that you know exactly what I am doing.
I already have a challenge, I am not going to accept yours, that would be a distraction. Thanks, but no.
Nothing against you Dennis, I think you are a good guy, you just need to let go of the rope.

[thunder24]

I got the fish for the pan fry, campfire feels good

You are in Tennessee, you better have Uncle Jack for your Uncle Sidious. :p

No, but the moon sure is shining on us.

[magicmanx]

Don't count anyone out 626, ya nugget.

And Bill, I can see you down there, get in here around the campfire already.
I have a place reserved for you.

My Dear LS

Some of us heard the same kind of words as.... don't count anyone out.... at the last campfire we went to away back in January 2011. It went something like... no one will be left behind.
The storyteller of that campfire just up and went away. Took who he wanted and left the rest of us to watch the dying embers. No goodbyes....just the memories and the words unsaid that have been turned and twisted into stories written down of hurt and recriminations that can never be taken back.

Be gentle with us big fella ........ camp fires are really not the in-thing at the moment.

With respect....I really hope you have some mighty big nuggets to take on this task you are planning.

Take care......think this out very carefully as already the crowds are gathering :)

[Lord Sidious]

Don't count anyone out 626, ya nugget.

And Bill, I can see you down there, get in here around the campfire already.
I have a place reserved for you.

My Dear LS

Some of us heard the same kind of words as.... don't count anyone out.... at the last campfire we went to away back in January 2011. It went something like... no one will be left behind.
The storyteller of that campfire just up and went away. Took who he wanted and left the rest of us to watch the dying embers. No goodbyes....just the memories and the words unsaid that have been turned and twisted into stories written down of hurt and recriminations that can never be taken back.

Be gentle with us big fella ........ camp fires are really not the in-thing at the moment.

With respect....I really hope you have some mighty big nuggets to take on this task you are planning.

Take care......think this out very carefully as already the crowds are gathering :)

I am not perfect and can't do this solo, I need your help, all of you.
I hear what you are saying and I don't want anyone left behind, or hurt either.
That includes bill, if he would only meet us halfway.

[Jake]

Hello Rob. Allow me to give meh 2 cents. You had my attention until you started in with the 'we have to save bill' stuff. Now, I am more entertained than anything. Thanks for that. It is like watching Spaceballs, instead of Star Wars. (don't get mad, I know you have a good sense of humor) Do you really feel that you are going to save Bill??? We can all appreciate that. Bill does not need saving. Taking the high road, and not responding to a DEMAND for an apology does not mean he needs your help. At least not with that. You are quite capable of using your words in a way that will not paint such a silly picture of Bill and Avalon. So you are one of the 18? Good choice. I would have picked you too. You are awesome. This does not mean that you get special treatment. I know that you have not asked for it, but I feel you are going down that road. You are our brother and friend. And we are here to help YOU grow. This post is not meant to 'defend' Bill. He does not need anyone to defend him. (Even though he may be attacked quite often by those who say that they are a friend of his.) I am not trying to put you into that category. Announcing a Demand for an apology,,, then later saying that you have 'let it go'.. and then LATER saying that your challange stands... tsk tsk tsk. I love you like a brother, Rob. You can unfold your information and knowledge in a way that does not include such nuggetry.

[Calz]

Be gentle with us big fella ........ camp fires are really not the in-thing at the moment.

With respect....I really hope you have some mighty big nuggets to take on this task you are planning.

Take care......think this out very carefully as already the crowds are gathering

Dammit ... heckuva a time to run outta popcorn!!! :pop2:

[Beloved]

I'm sorry, but maybe I missed something here. (and I've gone back and read it a few times)

Being a person of colour, I took Bill's statement to be referencing The Aboriginal Elders point of view. Whilst I've never met Bill in person, I was of the mindset that with the folks he's hung out with - from all walks of life, it would never have occurred to me that he has a racist bone in his body. I'm not taking sides here or in anyway trying to diminish your feeling insulted L.S., but having grown up with a father who was a black activist, I'm prone to sensitivity with these kinds of issues and I personally did not resonate 'racist' at all, is all I'm trying to say. Namaste!

[Dennis Leahy]

You seem to have made a few assumptions there yourself rather than ask me about it, but that is ok.
I am not a spokesman, although Atticus knows what I am saying and doing and approves.

If you truly believe that what I am wrong about bill, that is your opinion.
You are turning the conflict back on, when it was over.
What is YOUR goal with YOUR posts?
Defending bill is not doing him a favour, he has been dodging this for a while and you are helping him to keep that going.
I did make a judgement on bill and move on from that.
Now, others are agreeing so I may be not that far off.
Please don't be a nugget and make strawman arguments in a serious thread Dennis, you are better than that. I refer to the comment about three forums.
You are a bright man, I know that, so I think that you know exactly what I am doing.
I already have a challenge, I am not going to accept yours, that would be a distraction. Thanks, but no.
Nothing against you Dennis, I think you are a good guy, you just need to let go of the rope.

Rob, you stated that there was step 1 and step 2... and then we could move forward in cataclysm preparedness. You appear to be stuck there. You have not "moved on from that" when you state that step #1 involves that Bill "get past his issue." I was hoping to un-stick you.

Are you now scratching what you declared as "step 1"? If so, good.

This isn't a strawman argument, I'm responding to your words. You declared that 3 forums need to get together, as step #2. Your words:
Secondly? The three forums members need to work together to bring reconciliation to all.
By that time, you are ready.
You are dealing with hundreds, maybe even thousands, of different personalities on the three forums you allude to. Some in the cast of characters have absolutely no desire for 'reconciliation', and so it won't happen 100%. Those that want to reconcile will, those that want to communicate in several forums will. Many/most of us do "work together" already. You are imposing an artificial barrier to your mission. The boundaries between the three forums you mention, and others, simply disappear if you provide information that goes viral. Who would be so stubborn and so lost in personal issues to not absorb critical information, if available?

You stated that your information about a coming cataclysm comes from Atticus/Charles, correct? You have come forward with this, rather than Atticus/Charles (who is still a member here) coming forward with it. My understanding is that he has a new website (is that yet another forum, too?) and I would think that the information openly posted on any forum on the Internet would provide the point of disclosure and would go viral from there. It appears you're ready to do it here, on a forum that is openly viewable to anyone.

So, you've already told us your source for information (Atticus/Charles), and that's why you appeared to be stepping forward as a spokesperson. If that is not accurate, then that's fine - it simply appeared that way when you mentioned being one of the "18" and that Atticus was the source of your info.

The bottom line is: please get on with the disclosure. If Atticus/Charles was trying to disclose this here, then he got drowned-out in the din. I would hope you realize this, and would "cut to the chase" and disclose, very quickly and very clearly, whatever info you have. If you disclose everything you have, and are unable to answer further questions (or are unable to relay questions through Atticus/Charles), then please state that up front so the message does not get drowned and so you do not personally get barraged with further questions you can't answer.

Thanks,

Dennis

[Lord Sidious]

Hello Rob. Allow me to give meh 2 cents. You had my attention until you started in with the 'we have to save bill' stuff. Now, I am more entertained than anything. Thanks for that. It is like watching Spaceballs, instead of Star Wars. (don't get mad, I know you have a good sense of humor) Do you really feel that you are going to save Bill??? We can all appreciate that. Bill does not need saving. Taking the high road, and not responding to a DEMAND for an apology does not mean he needs your help. At least not with that. You are quite capable of using your words in a way that will not paint such a silly picture of Bill and Avalon. So you are one of the 18? Good choice. I would have picked you too. You are awesome. This does not mean that you get special treatment. I know that you have not asked for it, but I feel you are going down that road. You are our brother and friend. And we are here to help YOU grow. This post is not meant to 'defend' Bill. He does not need anyone to defend him. (Even though he may be attacked quite often by those who say that they are a friend of his.) I am not trying to put you into that category. Announcing a Demand for an apology,,, then later saying that you have 'let it go'.. and then LATER saying that your challange stands... tsk tsk tsk. I love you like a brother, Rob. You can unfold your information and knowledge in a way that does not include such nuggetry.

The thing is Jake, bill does need our help, denial won't help.
People who know him better than you, Dennis and the other staff and me all combined have contacted me to tell me that he does need it.
You only have my word for that of course.
I don't want any special treatment, nor would I expect it either.
You are free to your opinion of course as we all are.
But I would appreciate that my own agenda is the only agenda attributed to me.


I'm sorry, but maybe I missed something here. (and I've gone back and read it a few times)

Being a person of colour, I took Bill's statement to be referencing The Aboriginal Elders point of view. Whilst I've never met Bill in person, I was of the mindset that with the folks he's hung out with - from all walks of life, it would never have occurred to me that he has a racist bone in his body. I'm not taking sides here or in anyway trying to diminish your feeling insulted L.S., but having grown up with a father who was a black activist, I'm prone to sensitivity with these kinds of issues and I personally did not resonate 'racist' at all, is all I'm trying to say. Namaste!

Thanks for your input, much appreciated.
There is a difference between being racist and making statements that are.
As I said before, we moved past that.



You seem to have made a few assumptions there yourself rather than ask me about it, but that is ok.
I am not a spokesman, although Atticus knows what I am saying and doing and approves.

If you truly believe that what I am wrong about bill, that is your opinion.
You are turning the conflict back on, when it was over.
What is YOUR goal with YOUR posts?
Defending bill is not doing him a favour, he has been dodging this for a while and you are helping him to keep that going.
I did make a judgement on bill and move on from that.
Now, others are agreeing so I may be not that far off.
Please don't be a nugget and make strawman arguments in a serious thread Dennis, you are better than that. I refer to the comment about three forums.
You are a bright man, I know that, so I think that you know exactly what I am doing.
I already have a challenge, I am not going to accept yours, that would be a distraction. Thanks, but no.
Nothing against you Dennis, I think you are a good guy, you just need to let go of the rope.

Rob, you stated that there was step 1 and step 2... and then we could move forward in cataclysm preparedness. You appear to be stuck there. You have not "moved on from that" when you state that step #1 involves that Bill "get past his issue." I was hoping to un-stick you.

Are you now scratching what you declared as "step 1"? If so, good.

This isn't a strawman argument, I'm responding to your words. You declared that 3 forums need to get together, as step #2. Your words:
Secondly? The three forums members need to work together to bring reconciliation to all.
By that time, you are ready.
You are dealing with hundreds, maybe even thousands, of different personalities on the three forums you allude to. Some in the cast of characters have absolutely no desire for 'reconciliation', and so it won't happen 100%. Those that want to reconcile will, those that want to communicate in several forums will. Many/most of us do "work together" already. You are imposing an artificial barrier to your mission. The boundaries between the three forums you mention, and others, simply disappear if you provide information that goes viral. Who would be so stubborn and so lost in personal issues to not absorb critical information, if available?

You stated that your information about a coming cataclysm comes from Atticus/Charles, correct? You have come forward with this, rather than Atticus/Charles (who is still a member here) coming forward with it. My understanding is that he has a new website (is that yet another forum, too?) and I would think that the information openly posted on any forum on the Internet would provide the point of disclosure and would go viral from there. It appears you're ready to do it here, on a forum that is openly viewable to anyone.

So, you've already told us your source for information (Atticus/Charles), and that's why you appeared to be stepping forward as a spokesperson. If that is not accurate, then that's fine - it simply appeared that way when you mentioned being one of the "18" and that Atticus was the source of your info.

The bottom line is: please get on with the disclosure. If Atticus/Charles was trying to disclose this here, then he got drowned-out in the din. I would hope you realize this, and would "cut to the chase" and disclose, very quickly and very clearly, whatever info you have. If you disclose everything you have, and are unable to answer further questions (or are unable to relay questions through Atticus/Charles), then please state that up front so the message does not get drowned and so you do not personally get barraged with further questions you can't answer.

Thanks,

Dennis

What you say about those who don't want reconciliation is true, but I didn't mean them, although I didn't say that, so thanks for bringing that bit up.

I have my own goals in what I am doing, I am sticking to that.
If you want me to do something else, that is your issue, not mine.
And I wanna say, my last post to you came across stronger than I intended, sorry about that.

[K626]

I've seriously evaluted downward the survival abilities of people (especially some in this thread). :p

Peace and Love

K

Do you perceive that as

1) Having been handed the hymn sheet they are actually unable to sing...
2) Having been handed the hymn sheet they are unable to sing in tune...
3) Having been handed the hymn sheet they can't read it...
4) Having been handed the hymn sheet they are unable to determine what it is...
5) or as is probably my case they are not even in the same room to recieve the hymn sheet... :p
6) None of the above....

Yeah probs 4 and 5. :p

cheers
K

[Seikou-Kishi]

I'm sorry, but maybe I missed something here. (and I've gone back and read it a few times)

Being a person of colour, I took Bill's statement to be referencing The Aboriginal Elders point of view. Whilst I've never met Bill in person, I was of the mindset that with the folks he's hung out with - from all walks of life, it would never have occurred to me that he has a racist bone in his body. I'm not taking sides here or in anyway trying to diminish your feeling insulted L.S., but having grown up with a father who was a black activist, I'm prone to sensitivity with these kinds of issues and I personally did not resonate 'racist' at all, is all I'm trying to say. Namaste!

We are all 'of colour'. To which colour do you refer?

[PurpleLama]

The calvary has arrived, but believe me it's not one that Atticus, Germaine, et al. Would ever be looking for. What you seek to do can be done in harmony, in reality is being done before our eyes, unrecognized. I am not worried about earthquakes, storms, atomic weapons, so on and so forth. As stated earlier, it been tried and it's failed and there is nothing else it can do. All is well, regardless of appearances, all will be well. I will not offer "proof", because what I would say in terms of what I have learned in synchronicity is for me, and would lack the substance you would require to deem it valid. I am perfectly ok in this. It makes no waves for me if you don't agree. It's ok if you are told otherwise. But in my reality it's totally valid. As such it's as valid for me as your view is to you, Charles' is to him, Bill's is to him, ad infinitum. It should be that people in general should hear that there are higher beings safeguarding their sovreignity. That a fact, to me. Perhaps some may be inspired to look within and discover it's a fact for them, too. I know it's already the case for many but anyone who looks for hope can find it here, I have plenty to pass around.

[Seikou-Kishi]

This isn't a strawman argument, I'm responding to your words.

I'm somewhat inclined to ask you to look beyond the words and to read his post with your heart.

[K626]

Hello Rob. Allow me to give meh 2 cents. You had my attention until you started in with the 'we have to save bill' stuff. Now, I am more entertained than anything. Thanks for that. It is like watching Spaceballs, instead of Star Wars. (don't get mad, I know you have a good sense of humor) Do you really feel that you are going to save Bill??? We can all appreciate that. Bill does not need saving. Taking the high road, and not responding to a DEMAND for an apology does not mean he needs your help. At least not with that. You are quite capable of using your words in a way that will not paint such a silly picture of Bill and Avalon. So you are one of the 18? Good choice. I would have picked you too. You are awesome. This does not mean that you get special treatment. I know that you have not asked for it, but I feel you are going down that road. You are our brother and friend. And we are here to help YOU grow. This post is not meant to 'defend' Bill. He does not need anyone to defend him. (Even though he may be attacked quite often by those who say that they are a friend of his.) I am not trying to put you into that category. Announcing a Demand for an apology,,, then later saying that you have 'let it go'.. and then LATER saying that your challange stands... tsk tsk tsk. I love you like a brother, Rob. You can unfold your information and knowledge in a way that does not include such nuggetry.

I'm really losing count of the people who are in on this saving Bill lark..I lost count after the first dozen or so...:p

I have no intention of saving Bill and I'm pretty sure he can save himself.

K

[Lord Sidious]

Hello Rob. Allow me to give meh 2 cents. You had my attention until you started in with the 'we have to save bill' stuff. Now, I am more entertained than anything. Thanks for that. It is like watching Spaceballs, instead of Star Wars. (don't get mad, I know you have a good sense of humor) Do you really feel that you are going to save Bill??? We can all appreciate that. Bill does not need saving. Taking the high road, and not responding to a DEMAND for an apology does not mean he needs your help. At least not with that. You are quite capable of using your words in a way that will not paint such a silly picture of Bill and Avalon. So you are one of the 18? Good choice. I would have picked you too. You are awesome. This does not mean that you get special treatment. I know that you have not asked for it, but I feel you are going down that road. You are our brother and friend. And we are here to help YOU grow. This post is not meant to 'defend' Bill. He does not need anyone to defend him. (Even though he may be attacked quite often by those who say that they are a friend of his.) I am not trying to put you into that category. Announcing a Demand for an apology,,, then later saying that you have 'let it go'.. and then LATER saying that your challange stands... tsk tsk tsk. I love you like a brother, Rob. You can unfold your information and knowledge in a way that does not include such nuggetry.

I'm really losing count of the people who are in on this saving Bill lark..I lost count after the first dozen or so...:p

I have no intention of saving Bill and I'm pretty sure he can save himself.

K

I actually said we need to save ourselves and don't leave him behind, no?

[Mad Hatter]

I've seriously evaluted downward the survival abilities of people (especially some in this thread). :p

Peace and Love

K

Do you perceive that as

1) Having been handed the hymn sheet they are actually unable to sing...
2) Having been handed the hymn sheet they are unable to sing in tune...
3) Having been handed the hymn sheet they can't read it...
4) Having been handed the hymn sheet they are unable to determine what it is...
5) or as is probably my case they are not even in the same room to recieve the hymn sheet... :p
6) None of the above....

Yeah probs 4 and 5. :p

cheers
K

Thus we arrive at the lowest common denominator yet again.... education

cheers

Mad Hatter wanders of looking for his school bag and someone to draw him a map ;)

[Dennis Leahy]

I have my own goals in what I am doing, I am sticking to that.
Can I ask you to please state or restate your goals. (I'm hoping you'll recognize that you may need to filter out or strip away secondary or tertiary goals, to focus on something as enormous as disclosure of impending cataclysm and preparedness for it.)

At the same time, please recognize too that different souls are going to deal with this in different ways - some will look for physical safety, and others have made the decision to go a metaphysical route (Purple Lama echoes it; Inelia resonates it, for example.)

Dennis

[777]

Hello Rob. Allow me to give meh 2 cents. You had my attention until you started in with the 'we have to save bill' stuff. Now, I am more entertained than anything. Thanks for that. It is like watching Spaceballs, instead of Star Wars. (don't get mad, I know you have a good sense of humor) Do you really feel that you are going to save Bill??? We can all appreciate that. Bill does not need saving. Taking the high road, and not responding to a DEMAND for an apology does not mean he needs your help. At least not with that. You are quite capable of using your words in a way that will not paint such a silly picture of Bill and Avalon. So you are one of the 18? Good choice. I would have picked you too. You are awesome. This does not mean that you get special treatment. I know that you have not asked for it, but I feel you are going down that road. You are our brother and friend. And we are here to help YOU grow. This post is not meant to 'defend' Bill. He does not need anyone to defend him. (Even though he may be attacked quite often by those who say that they are a friend of his.) I am not trying to put you into that category. Announcing a Demand for an apology,,, then later saying that you have 'let it go'.. and then LATER saying that your challange stands... tsk tsk tsk. I love you like a brother, Rob. You can unfold your information and knowledge in a way that does not include such nuggetry.

I'm really losing count of the people who are in on this saving Bill lark..I lost count after the first dozen or so...:p

I have no intention of saving Bill and I'm pretty sure he can save himself.

K

I actually said we need to save ourselves and don't leave him behind, no?

In what way is Bill being left behind? Or to rephrase that, in what way is Bill behaving in such a manner so as to excuse himself from coming with?

[PurpleLama]

*hands Rob a beer*

it's too early in the day for it where I live, but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do

[K626]

Hello Rob. Allow me to give meh 2 cents. You had my attention until you started in with the 'we have to save bill' stuff. Now, I am more entertained than anything. Thanks for that. It is like watching Spaceballs, instead of Star Wars. (don't get mad, I know you have a good sense of humor) Do you really feel that you are going to save Bill??? We can all appreciate that. Bill does not need saving. Taking the high road, and not responding to a DEMAND for an apology does not mean he needs your help. At least not with that. You are quite capable of using your words in a way that will not paint such a silly picture of Bill and Avalon. So you are one of the 18? Good choice. I would have picked you too. You are awesome. This does not mean that you get special treatment. I know that you have not asked for it, but I feel you are going down that road. You are our brother and friend. And we are here to help YOU grow. This post is not meant to 'defend' Bill. He does not need anyone to defend him. (Even though he may be attacked quite often by those who say that they are a friend of his.) I am not trying to put you into that category. Announcing a Demand for an apology,,, then later saying that you have 'let it go'.. and then LATER saying that your challange stands... tsk tsk tsk. I love you like a brother, Rob. You can unfold your information and knowledge in a way that does not include such nuggetry.

I'm really losing count of the people who are in on this saving Bill lark..I lost count after the first dozen or so...:p

I have no intention of saving Bill and I'm pretty sure he can save himself.

K

I actually said we need to save ourselves and don't leave him behind, no?

There is a distinct danger the 'hatted one' might be ahead of us Sidney. Have you considered that?!

Lighten up a bit. :p

K

[Lord Sidious]

I have my own goals in what I am doing, I am sticking to that.
Can I ask you to please state or restate your goals. (I'm hoping you'll recognize that you may need to filter out or strip away secondary or tertiary goals, to focus on something as enormous as disclosure of impending cataclysm and preparedness for it.)

At the same time, please recognize too that different souls are going to deal with this in different ways - some will look for physical safety, and others have made the decision to go a metaphysical route (Purple Lama echoes it; Inelia resonates it, for example.)

Dennis

I have already explained it in the past few pages, so I decline your offer, thanks.
And yes, the different souls will deal differently, that is part of the beauty of our existence.



In what way is Bill being left behind? Or to rephrase that, in what way is Bill behaving in such a manner so as to excuse himself from coming with?

Please go back over my recent posts, I have already posted exactly what I think.




There is a distinct danger the 'hatted one' might be ahead of us Sidney. Have you considered that?!

Lighten up a bit. :p

K

It is possible.
It is also possible that I know stuff you do not, no?
And maybe I can't say because of confidences and such.

[Calz]

*hands Rob a beer*

it's too early in the day for it where I live, but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do

Don't think a beer is gonna do it this time ... 9eagle9 alert ... avalon requests an all nighter at your margarita lounge :washing:


Just got back from the store with a serious stash of popcorn.

Turn off the cell phones folks ... the main feature is ready to commence :)

[Dennis Leahy]

I have my own goals in what I am doing, I am sticking to that.
Can I ask you to please state or restate your goals. (I'm hoping you'll recognize that you may need to filter out or strip away secondary or tertiary goals, to focus on something as enormous as disclosure of impending cataclysm and preparedness for it.)

...

Dennis

I have already explained it in the past few pages, so I decline your offer, thanks.

Honestly, Rob, I've read every word. I can't find it. Please restate it. Once again, I'm trying to give you a brief introduction and hand you the microphone. I'm trying to help you.

Dennis

[Lord Sidious]

Just so that you know who and what you are dealing with, go here.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/indefatigable




Honestly, Rob, I've read every word. I can't find it. Please restate it. Once again, I'm trying to give you a brief introduction and hand you the microphone. I'm trying to help you.

Dennis

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?20169-The-sensitivity-of-language-and-people-when-describing-race-related-issues&p=216156&viewfull=1#post216156
There ya go.

[Dorok]

Despite what seems to be the overwhelming sense of confusion, this could very well be the most important active thread on this forum.

Keep it up, everyone!!

[Jake]

Rob, If there is a genuine concern for Bills well being. Why have you made it a public spectacle? Sounds like a private matter to me. But thanks for clarifying.
You DID say that "we need to save ourselves, and not leave Bill behind." But followed that with an announcement that a group of people contacted you and put you up to it.
Creates confusion. just a heads up. Jake.

[Lord Sidious]

Rob, If there is a genuine concern for Bills well being. Why have you made it a public spectacle? Sounds like a private matter to me. But thanks for clarifying.
You DID say that "we need to save ourselves, and not leave Bill behind." But followed that with an announcement that a group of people contacted you and put you up to it.
Creates confusion. just a heads up. Jake.

Because in public, we can all help.
No one put me up to this, they spoke to me to tell me I was right about what I was saying.

[PurpleLama]

*hands Rob a beer*

it's too early in the day for it where I live, but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do

Don't think a beer is gonna do it this time ... 9eagle9 alert ... avalon requests an all nighter at your margarita lounge :washing:


Just got back from the store with a serious stash of popcorn.

Turn off the cell phones folks ... the main feature is ready to commence :)

in light of my reference to synchronicity, you and 9eagle9 are the only two people I have "friended" here on Avalon

in current american slang "this is how I roll"

EDIT

with the notable exception of "playdoh", as this person is my friend in real life, we are a secret society that's so secret that we barely even know about it ourselves!

the discordian in me hopes that everyone thinks I'm joking, because I'm not

[Carmody]

The more paranoid view is that this may fracture the forum again. As in, right now... it is building. Again.

Apparently, that is one idea of the external aims of some groups. (groups that are principally outside the forum membership)

Now, Sid, what is this thing you are doing here?

Following the finger in curiosity can be just as much of a source of a break up of the forum as anything else. If not more so. basically it was the root cause in the last one, just 2 or so months back.

So again, Sid, what are you all about here?

The reality of these situations goes from the mundane right into la-la land for even the most 'complete understandings' that may exist in the regular membership of this forum.

Thus when we follow the finger and move toward some aspect of that edge of understanding..where the line blurs (necessarily so). We encounter serious problems for any grouping attempt..problems that tends to tip the bus off the road and dump the people about like injured rabbits, wandering around a crash site....bewildered..and they wander of in different directions. With far smaller grouping than they had when they were on the bus together. This is Psychology 101 classes. This is essentially what happened to the forum those 2 months back.

The group doing the following WILL fracture according to their deepest lines of demarcation as laid out by their core belief and understandings of reality. Their logic will skip to it's limit and their emotions will be doing the driving in the face of complex known-unknowns. They will fracture from being a prior group to being individuals with the face of their unconscious unknowns, unrealized conditions of their basis of life.. these core points of individuality which are the true driver of their personal edifice.

This is ALWAYS the result.

See it happen in miniature, right here, in page 2-3 of this thread.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?20134-Adm.-George-Hoover-and-the-Roswell-secret-the-real-abilities-that-humans-have

This is why Charles, and others, and I (I'm paraphrasing others into it, my position is the stated condition) basically peed ourselves laughing and very much crying at the same time due to the size and scope of the dilemma.

This is the why of my more than once linking of the scene in The Life of Brian. "Follow the gourd! No! follow the shoe".

Even Monty python gets it. It is too bad that more people don't.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sffSw-et9UM

[Lord Sidious]

The more paranoid view is that this may fracture the forum again. As in, right now... it is building. Again.

Apparently, that is one idea of the external aims of some groups. (groups that are principally outside the forum membership)

Now, Sid, what is this thing you are doing here?

Following the finger in curiosity can be just as much of a source of a break up of the forum as anything else. If not more so. basically it was the root cause in the last one, just 2 or so months back.

So again, Sid, what are you all about here?

So you have to cast aspersions on my character by linking me and shadowy groups?
Thanks.

[Calz]

*hands Rob a beer*

it's too early in the day for it where I live, but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do

Don't think a beer is gonna do it this time ... 9eagle9 alert ... avalon requests an all nighter at your margarita lounge :washing:


Just got back from the store with a serious stash of popcorn.

Turn off the cell phones folks ... the main feature is ready to commence :)

in light of my reference to synchronicity, you and 9eagle9 are the only two people I have "friended" here on Avalon

in current american slang "this is how I roll"

Don't make me cry ... :cry:

It would seem we made a wise choice in recognizing the value of your friendship.

[Carmody]

The more paranoid view is that this may fracture the forum again. As in, right now... it is building. Again.

Apparently, that is one idea of the external aims of some groups. (groups that are principally outside the forum membership)

Now, Sid, what is this thing you are doing here?

Following the finger in curiosity can be just as much of a source of a break up of the forum as anything else. If not more so. basically it was the root cause in the last one, just 2 or so months back.

So again, Sid, what are you all about here?

So you have to cast aspersions on my character by linking me and shadowy groups?
Thanks.

I have expanded my post.

It is a question and it is real. there is no evading it. It is part and parcel of being a human and dealing with ramifications of unfolding realities and unfolding questions. I'm not emotional about it, to any large degree. I'm stating what others are surely thinking.

A wise man considers all avenues. Otherwise his ass is going to be in a sling when he least expects it.

People ask me what I think of charles. I made a post on the other forum which has likely been misconstrued, due to what I wrote and how it was written.


The reality is that I still have no definite or defining opinion on Charles as I never received anything that this particular being (I, me) understands as irrefutable.

Due to that, I never ventured forward to be involved with him in any direct or incidental way.

[kersley]

The more paranoid view is that this may fracture the forum again. As in, right now... it is building. Again.

Apparently, that is one idea of the external aims of some groups. (groups that are principally outside the forum membership)

Now, Sid, what is this thing you are doing here?

Following the finger in curiosity can be just as much of a source of a break up of the forum as anything else. If not more so. basically it was the root cause in the last one, just 2 or so months back.

So again, Sid, what are you all about here?

What a good question,
What are you all about here?
What is it that Charles is telling you that your not telling us?
Why hasn't Charles come back to finish what he started?
I don't get it. If Charles was here to share some true information, Surely we don't have enough time for him to set up a website where the truth will be told.
By the time this information comes out, I'm going to evolve into a grey.

Time to stop playing with our minds and let the cat out the bag as Denis requested.

[9eagle9]

What he said, PL.

Well there's a reason for everything. (grin) Honored to say the least.

Is there anyone in this forum who has the ability to calm tensions and mediate these sorts of things? Because left on your own are just trainwrecking here.

Which is rather why our Lord here posted a link to indefatigable. He is currently a brick wall that people are throwing themselves against but understand he's not throwing you there....YOU are.

And if it is determined that there is a person in this forum that can mentor this sort of thing would you be willing to participate in that sort of thing IF you knew that it would help to abate this entirely out of control situation?

Skinny margaritas on the menu folks...more taste less filler





*hands Rob a beer*

it's too early in the day for it where I live, but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do

Don't think a beer is gonna do it this time ... 9eagle9 alert ... avalon requests an all nighter at your margarita lounge :washing:


Just got back from the store with a serious stash of popcorn.

Turn off the cell phones folks ... the main feature is ready to commence :)

in light of my reference to synchronicity, you and 9eagle9 are the only two people I have "friended" here on Avalon

in current american slang "this is how I roll"

Don't make me cry ... :cry:

It would seem we made a wise choice in recognizing the value of your friendship.

[PurpleLama]

*hands Rob a beer*

it's too early in the day for it where I live, but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do

Don't think a beer is gonna do it this time ... 9eagle9 alert ... avalon requests an all nighter at your margarita lounge :washing:


Just got back from the store with a serious stash of popcorn.

Turn off the cell phones folks ... the main feature is ready to commence :)

in light of my reference to synchronicity, you and 9eagle9 are the only two people I have "friended" here on Avalon

in current american slang "this is how I roll"

Don't make me cry ... :cry:

It would seem we made a wise choice in recognizing the value of your friendship.

cry away, I do all the time, not really so much except for joy. We are the three. Or the twelve. Or the forty-two. Or the twenty-three. Or the seven hundred and seventy seven. We are all numbers, up until about six and a half billion or so. We are the ones who want to see Love, who will never be disappointed, we are the fire that never goes out.

hows that for a campfire? This time, we did start the fire that could never be controlled.

[shijo]

I have my own goals in what I am doing, I am sticking to that.
Can I ask you to please state or restate your goals. (I'm hoping you'll recognize that you may need to filter out or strip away secondary or tertiary goals, to focus on something as enormous as disclosure of impending cataclysm and preparedness for it.)

At the same time, please recognize too that different souls are going to deal with this in different ways - some will look for physical safety, and others have made the decision to go a metaphysical route (Purple Lama echoes it; Inelia resonates it, for example.)

Dennis

Hi Dennis, im going the metaphysical route myself, you can get a cheap day return on a wednesday....regards Shijo

[magicmanx]

PurpleLama

Could we throw in the most important ingredient of all with love.............. COMPASSION

[Calz]

cry away, I do all the time, not really so much except for joy.

Quite honestly ... a tear or two did come to my eyes.

Aside from the nonsense and madness in the world ... some things are special and worth taking note of.

That was one of those moments.

Thank you PurpleLama :thank_you2:

[PurpleLama]

in response to 405 and 406, consider compassion, ect. ENCOMPASSED Within love.


UNITY IS REAL, FOLKS.

God, I am thankful for this!

[PurpleLama]

it appears I hijacked the hijacked, hijacked thread.

[Lord Sidious]

I have expanded my post.

It is a question and it is real. there is no evading it. It is part and parcel of being a human and dealing with ramifications of unfolding realities and unfolding questions. I'm not emotional about it, to any large degree. I'm stating what others are surely thinking.

A wise man considers all avenues. Otherwise his ass is going to be in a sling when he least expects it.

People ask me what I think of charles. I made a post on the other forum which has likely been misconstrued, due to what I wrote and how it was written.

The reality is that I still have no definite or defining opinion on Charles as I never received anything that this particular being (I, me) understands as irrefutable.

Due to that, I never ventured forward to be involved with him in any direct or incidental way.

I am not trying to evade your questions, I don't appreciate people insinuating that I have some ulterior motive for what I am doing.
No one asked me if I had ulterior motives in the wormtongue thread, did they?
I will tell you this, I am trying to help not just bill, but the people who are decent on this forum, nexus and camelot.
Am I going about this the wrong way? Quite possibly.
But you know something?
I am trying, I am not sitting back attacking the messenger.



What a good question,
What are you all about here?
What is it that Charles is telling you that your not telling us?
Why hasn't Charles come back to finish what he started?
I don't get it. If Charles was here to share some true information, Surely we don't have enough time for him to set up a website where the truth will be told.
By the time this information comes out, I'm going to evolve into a grey.

Time to stop playing with our minds and let the cat out the bag as Denis requested.

I can't answer questions about Atticus, you would have to PM him and ask him.
I am not playing with you or anyone else and I don't appreciate you making that claim.


What he said, PL.

Well there's a reason for everything. (grin) Honored to say the least.

Is there anyone in this forum who has the ability to calm tensions and mediate these sorts of things? Because left on your own are just trainwrecking here.

Which is rather why our Lord here posted a link to indefatigable. He is currently a brick wall that people are throwing themselves against but understand he's not throwing you there....YOU are.

And if it is determined that there is a person in this forum that can mentor this sort of thing would you be willing to participate in that sort of thing IF you knew that it would help to abate this entirely out of control situation?

Skinny margaritas on the menu folks...more taste less filler

If there is anyone who can help, I am more than happy to accept that help.

[K626]

This is the film THE PARALLAX VIEW should have been. :p

love

K

[Carmody]

The more paranoid view is that this may fracture the forum again. As in, right now... it is building. Again.

Apparently, that is one idea of the external aims of some groups. (groups that are principally outside the forum membership)

Now, Sid, what is this thing you are doing here?

Following the finger in curiosity can be just as much of a source of a break up of the forum as anything else. If not more so. basically it was the root cause in the last one, just 2 or so months back.

So again, Sid, what are you all about here?

The reality of these situations goes from the mundane right into la-la land for even the most 'complete understandings' that may exist in the regular membership of this forum.

Thus when we follow the finger and move toward some aspect of that edge of understanding..where the line blurs (necessarily so). We encounter serious problems for any grouping attempt..problems that tends to tip the bus off the road and dump the people about like injured rabbits, wandering around a crash site....bewildered..and they wander off in different directions. With far smaller grouping than they had when they were on the bus together. This is Psychology 101 classes. This is essentially what happened to the forum those 2 months back.

The group doing the following WILL fracture according to their deepest lines of demarcation as laid out by their core belief and understandings of reality. Their logic will skip to it's limit and their emotions will be doing the driving in the face of complex known-unknowns. They will fracture from being a prior group to being individuals with the face of their unconscious unknowns, unrealized conditions of their basis of life.. these core points of individuality which are the true driver of their personal edifice.

This is ALWAYS the result.

See it happen in miniature, right here, in page 2-3 of this thread.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?20134-Adm.-George-Hoover-and-the-Roswell-secret-the-real-abilities-that-humans-have

This is why Charles, and others, and I (I'm paraphrasing others into it, my position is the stated condition) basically peed ourselves laughing and very much crying at the same time due to the size and scope of the dilemma.

This is the why of my more than once linking of the scene in The Life of Brian. "Follow the gourd! No! follow the shoe".

Even Monty python gets it. It is too bad that more people don't.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sffSw-et9UM

I bring this post back up, as I have changed it a bit more, expanded it, if you will.

Any attempt to help in these areas is generally going to end up in the same place as is mentioned.

Which is why I've done it systematically for over 2000 posts. +95% of them (is my guess) with that in mind.

[Matts]

To all of us here:

I have read only a part of the posts, but i have a good feeling, what is it all about.
I had a lot to say, but my english is still so undeveloped that it would take years for an adequate formulation of my thoughts to write here. Therefore, simply turn to the Hawaiian method of Ho'oponopono (google it please). This has already helped in many very difficult situations :)

From my heart to you all

[Jake]

I just wanted to say that I love you all. I mean it. I can't say it with more conviction. I love Avalon. I love our little family here. I have nothing but respect for all of you.

[Donna O]

"Ho'oponopono
a way to solve problems

Ho'oponopono (Ho oponopono, Hooponopono) is a process for solving problems. But ho'oponopono does more than just solve problems - it's a means for getting aligned with existence. This might sound complicated or "out there" and maybe it is, but ho'oponopono isn't necessarily easy to put into a neat little package. The truth is, ho'oponopono is both simple and complex. Most important of all, ho'oponopono (ho oponopono, hooponopono) is a big help."

http://www.hooponoponohelp.com/

An interesting tool :)


To all of us here:

I have read only a part of the posts, but i have a good feeling, what is it all about.
I had a lot to say, but my english is still so undeveloped that it would take years for an adequate formulation of my thoughts to write here. Therefore, simply turn to the Hawaiian method of Ho'oponopono (google it please). This has already helped in many very difficult situations :)

From my heart to you all

[PurpleLama]

To all of us here:

I have read only a part of the posts, but i have a good feeling, what is it all about.
I had a lot to say, but my english is still so undeveloped that it would take years for an adequate formulation of my thoughts to write here. Therefore, simply turn to the Hawaiian method of Ho'oponopono (google it please). This has already helped in many very difficult situations :)

From my heart to you all


EXACTLY.

You hit the nail right on the head.

perhaps, sidious, if instead of demanding apology, you offered forgiveness instead for the slight perceived by you, you would be engendering the healing response you would be looking for.

for those who are interested, I tried to PM rob to say this very thing, but the smart phone froze and bumped me back to this page, losing my message but the universe had this one to reply to, right on target. Love synchronicity, the gift that keeps on giving.

[Calz]

I just wanted to say that I love you all. I mean it. I can't say it with more conviction. I love Avalon. I love our little family here. I have nothing but respect for all of you.

Oh gosh ... I can only cry so many times in one day ... :cry:

At the end of the day ... what else matters.

I wish we could include all the *MAGNIFICENT* original and continuing members of CAMELOT into that mix.

Time will tell ... we are one ... correct???

[Belle]

Thank you, Matts. I do think we all need to stop, breathe, and remember the power of "I'm sorry. Please forgive me. Thank you. I love you"...otherwise known as Ho'oponopono

Although Rob has been consistent and attempting to move from point A to point B, there is much sidetracking going on. On a positive note, this thread has clearly revealed who gets it, who is stuck, impatient, demanding, frustrated, etc.

It's like Rob is trying to prepare us for a common journey and some are ready to move on, some haven't begun to pack yet, some are questioning the need for the journey at all, some are demanding to take the lead, some are giving warnings of dire consequences that may occur for even speaking of the journey, some are saying it must be done this way, some want shortcuts...and on and on it goes. So much noise and so little movement.

Breathe. Relax. Listen. Patience. Let it flow as it will. Allow it to resonate for you, or not. Choose to journey or not. But the journey must begin with the first step...releasing ego long enough to find common ground by setting all that would divide aside.

[PurpleLama]

I just wanted to say that I love you all. I mean it. I can't say it with more conviction. I love Avalon. I love our little family here. I have nothing but respect for all of you.

Oh gosh ... I can only cry so many times in one day ... :cry:

At the end of the day ... what else matters.

I wish we could include all the *MAGNIFICENT* original and continuing members of CAMELOT into that mix.

Time will tell ... we are one ... correct???

I say:

Include 'em all, and let God sort 'em out.

Seriously.

[Lord Sidious]

EXACTLY.

You hit the nail right on the head.

perhaps, sidious, if instead of demanding apology, you offered forgiveness instead for the slight perceived by you, you would be engendering the healing response you would be looking for.

for those who are interested, I tried to PM rob to say this very thing, but the smart phone froze and bumped me back to this page, losing my message but the universe had this one to reply to, right on target. Love synchronicity, the gift that keeps on giving.

I appreciate that point about forgiveness and I agree, thanks for pointing that out, much appreciated.
I forgive Bill.


Thank you, Matts. I do think we all need to stop, breathe, and remember the power of "I'm sorry. Please forgive me. Thank you. I love you"...otherwise known as Ho'oponopono

Although Rob has been consistent and attempting to move from point A to point B, there is much sidetracking going on. On a positive note, this thread has clearly revealed who gets it, who is stuck, impatient, demanding, frustrated, etc. It's like Rob is trying to prepare us for a common journey and some are ready to move on, some haven't begun to pack yet, some are questioning the need for the journey at all, some are demanding to take the lead, some are giving warnings of dire consequences that may occur for even speaking of the journey, some are saying it must be done this way, some want shortcuts...and on and on it goes. So much noise and so little movement.

Breathe. Relax. Listen. Patience. Let it flow as it will. Allow it to resonate for you, or not. Choose to journey or not. But the journey must begin with the first step...releasing ego long enough to find common ground....setting all that would divide aside.

I am trying to prepare us and people on the other forums to be able to work together, without animosity from before popping up all the time.
Thanks for posting, much appreciated.

[Belle]

What an amazing demonstration of the power of love and forgiveness to turn things around and clear the air!

[edina]

Lord Sidoius, I offer my hand in help as best as I know how.

I have come to similar understandings as you, without the benefit of anyone telling me anything about anyone.

I can see the misunderstandings that abound around Bill, that seems to come from a difficulty on his part to accept that he may have made mistakes and to apologise for them.

I see this from his own writings, in this Bill has born witness with himself.

And I can appreciate the desire for Bill to be included in the coming disclosure process, but as I said in one of my earliest posts, when I was talking about the "33". I've learned a long time ago, the hard way, that it is difficult to work with someone who has no desire to work with you.

I believe allowing ourselves to completely accept Bill, as he is, may be one of the ways forward here. Although, I do agree, if he could become open and examine his heart, and become okay with his humanity, it would undoubtedly smooth the way.

He does carry the weight of his personal power...

As for the 3 forums working together, for the good of all life. There is in my mind a real necessity for this. I would like to help in anyway I can.

And, I agree with Dennis, this will eventually become viral. However, I feel we need to work some kinks out, these forums working in unique and yet, cooperative creational ways will strengthen what eventually becomes viral.

Again, I want people to know, I derive at my personal opinions here, souly by what I see and read in the public arena. Except for a few personal experiences that Life has sent my way to help me learn what is most gracious for me to know next...

I suspect that I am a bit of an odd duck, in that I have chosen to prepare both physically, and metaphysically, PEMS, physical, emotional, mental, and spiritual. I still think way to many people try to force either/or decisions when in reality there is plenty of room for and/and.

Count me in , LS, because I love the child!!!!

[ceetee9]

I wasn’t going to jump into the fray on this one, but it occurred to me that the high level of emotions/passions and hard stances that these types of misunderstandings so often generate is likely how we have come to co-create this insane world in which we now live and why it is equally likely that we will not come together in peace and harmony as a species.

With all of the alleged negative things that are facing humanity and the planet, I find it disconcerting, at the least, that something as seemingly inconsequential (in the grand scheme of things) as this thread could generate over 9300 views in a little over 24 hours while things that could, if true, result in the enslavement or death of millions of people would be hard-pressed to generate that much interest and activity in months.

Let’s not throw the baby out with the bath water.

[edina]

I just wanted to say that I love you all. I mean it. I can't say it with more conviction. I love Avalon. I love our little family here. I have nothing but respect for all of you.

Jake, I am moved to tears by your words here, and can say I share the same heart with you, I love you all, I love the many people I know in the few forums I join, and I love the whole of humanity,

I hope I have treated everyone here with the respect and appreciation I feel you deserve, please let me know, any one of you, if I have not, and I will apologise forthright,..

We are all wonderful people!!!!! :biggrin:

Thank you Jake, so much for this :grouphug:

[Carmody]

we're in a quarter moon phase where our emotions can run perpendicular or square to our desire for meaning and emotional connection.

This is normal. happens twice a month. :p

Astrology good. Ignorance bad.

[9eagle9]

Okay Lord Sid this is for you. I want to create a template with you to bring this three ring circus back into focus. I will be reframing some of the material you have covered so no shock surprises or startling ambush questions. These are questions you've already answered and things you have expressed, we are going to work together to put them in a precision place.

For everyone else.(and this means YOU, no exclusions or thinking this applies to everyone else but them.... ) In order to RESOLVE this we need an agreement to not interrupt the process of the template formation. If you choose to interrupt before the template is complete the template will be moved so that you can't view its formation. This is your choice. When the template is complete then it is my job to direct the questioning of the template. If you give me the agreement to direct this you are giving me the authority to mediate this event and will impose that authority for those who find that their opinion is more important than resolution. Clear?

You have a choice, choose wisely and think about what you really want to see emerge from this process.

For those who are distraught or distressed or angry but what is occurring here I want you to step back and ask yourself why you are so vested in this matter?

The basic premise is that everyone wants to help but you basically blurring the situation to the point that what requires assistance becomes lost. This process clears out the clutter so you have the tools to make a resolution. WE are moving this from the emotional, personal place to a concept place that can be viewed objectively. And to develop some trust.

Without this agreement ...well ...the choice is yours.

[Jendayi]

I wasn’t going to jump into the fray on this one, but it occurred to me that the high level of emotions/passions and hard stances that these types of misunderstandings so often generate is likely how we have come to co-create this insane world in which we now live and why it is equally likely that we will not come together in peace and harmony as a species.

With all of the alleged negative things that are facing humanity and the planet, I find it disconcerting, at the least, that something as seemingly inconsequential (in the grand scheme of things) as this thread could generate over 9300 views in a little over 24 hours while things that could, if true, result in the enslavement or death of millions of people would be hard-pressed to generate that much interest and activity in months.

Let’s not throw the baby out with the bath water.

my heart literally skipped a beat when i read that... i humbly ask forgiveness for all i may have neglected.... (in general, nothing to do with this thread itself)
thank you for those powerful words CT9!
i could really use a group hug right now...
love, jendayi

[Normalguy31]

we're in a quarter moon phase where our emotions can run perpendicular or square to our desire for meaning and emotional connection.

This is normal. happens twice a month. :p

Astrology good. Ignorance bad.

hahaha nicely put, you just made my day. Thanks lol.

[777]

Is there anyone in this forum who has the ability to calm tensions and mediate these sorts of things? Because left on your own are just trainwrecking here.

Which is rather why our Lord here posted a link to indefatigable. He is currently a brick wall that people are throwing themselves against but understand he's not throwing you there....YOU are.

And if it is determined that there is a person in this forum that can mentor this sort of thing would you be willing to participate in that sort of thing IF you knew that it would help to abate this entirely out of control situation?


More than willing. I've mediated every day of my life between the seemingly polar opposite points of view, since they are polar yet not opposite and never incapable of being reconciled. I'm not self-appointing, since I aim to fulfil this criteria in every post I make, it's what drives me and thus, shall be mediating anyway regardless. Disagreements are welcomed. My limited 32 years have empowered me to remember sufficient to honour division and its' inevitable re-unity as an integral part of growth.

I, for one, am pleased to see the previously stalled dialogue (that has caused separation) reconciled back into a furthered ball game. The mediation of that sequential process is something we all personally do when we discern and communicate. That is to be encouraged.

[TWINCANS]

"...I, for one, am pleased to see the previously stalled dialogue (that has caused separation) reconciled back into a furthered ball game..."


Gotta wonder how long it would have taken if LS hadn't said he's one of the 18, with the instant increase in perceived status turning impatience into all-ears?

[777]

"...I, for one, am pleased to see the previously stalled dialogue (that has caused separation) reconciled back into a furthered ball game..."


Gotta wonder how long it would have taken if LS hadn't said he's one of the 18, with the instant increase in perceived status turning impatience into all-ears?

Perceived status could be argued insignificant since we don't have to wonder how long it would have taken, it's happened.


The mediation of that sequential process is something we all personally do when we discern and communicate. That is to be encouraged.

Sequential cause and effect rather than circular non action. Which is preferable.......and indeed, in these times.......are either? Let's bash this out is my generic point. I'll mediate with (and through) contribution, not for the role. I hope we all can........

[Jendayi]

to everyone reading this and who is having difficulty with Lord Sidious' choices of communicating his intentions...
please take a step back and read between the lines.. an observant reader will learn that our friend sidious is actually a very loving and caring being who is really trying his best to remain consistent in a world where he is pulled back, forth and sideways while jumping through rings of fire and standing on one leg, juggling his own (no doubt unique) perspective with the perspectives of all those around him.. both on and offline... if you would take the time to read many of his posts you would know he has an enormous heart and really cares for the rest of us..
don't let his avatar and name fool you... (and be honest with yourself, are sid's nicknam & avatar affecting you on a sub conscious level? could be...)
try watching the first 3 Hellraiser movies on mushrooms, after that, lord sidious looks like a cute little bunny.. he is a really cuddly guy on the inside...
he has proven to be a valuable contributor on this forum and imho, has built up some credit.. so let's give him some... some things take time.. specially when so many factors and opinions are to be considered...

this is for you sid: (and for anyone who feels they aren't getting through to people)
Please cut the rest of us some slack. i speak from experience here brother.. many of us are much more aware of certain things than others, many of us are quite "out there" regarding our thoughts and modes of expression.. we communicate in a different language.. don't beat yourself or others up about it.. it's all nothing more than misunderstandings. good intentions lost in bad translations.. the Brick wall that was previously mentioned also has some bricks of yours in there... it's the same with your destroyed "Death Star", you can complain all you want about the rebels destroying your precious "Death Star" and that the insurance company is refusing to give you a decent credit.. but let's be fair here... who the hell builds such a magnificent weapon with a tunnel to it's core, no doors, no force field.. just a giant hole in your giant ball shaped death ray... it could fit the "Millennium falcon" easily, for Pete's sake... Sid, what were you smoking when you gave the ok for those building plans...?
i see you have forgiven Bill.. excellent, that's a good start! who knows, one day you might even forgive those blasted Rebels for taking advantage of your one weak spot!
before anyone feels the need to keep badgering or say something nasty on or about this thread.. PLEASE... stop taking yourselves so sidiously... seriously...

i feel the need for a group hug... again..
i hope i have been able to mediate a bit..
love and warmth..

[777]

to everyone reading this and who is having difficulty with Lord Sidious' choices of communicating his intentions...
please take a step back and read between the lines.. an observant reader will learn that our friend sidious is actually a very loving and caring being who is really trying his best to remain consistent in a world where he is pulled back, forth and sideways while jumping through rings of fire and standing on one leg, juggling his own (no doubt unique) perspective with the perspectives of all those around him.. both on and offline... if you would take the time to read many of his posts you would know he has an enormous heart and really cares for the rest of us..
don't let his avatar and name fool you... (and be honest with yourself, are sid's nicknam & avatar affecting you on a sub conscious level? could be...)
try watching the first 3 Hellraiser movies on mushrooms, after that, lord sidious looks like a cute little bunny.. he is a really cuddly guy on the inside...
he has proven to be a valuable contributor on this forum and imho, has built up some credit.. so let's give him some... some things take time.. specially when so many factors and opinions are to be considered...

this is for you sid: (and for anyone who feels they aren't getting through to people)
Please cut the rest of us some slack. i speak from experience here brother.. many of us are much more aware of certain things than others, many of us are quite "out there" regarding our thoughts and modes of expression.. we communicate in a different language.. don't beat yourself or others up about it.. it's all nothing more than misunderstandings. good intentions lost in bad translations.. the Brick wall that was previously mentioned also has some bricks of yours in there... it's the same with your destroyed "Death Star", you can complain all you want about the rebels destroying your precious "Death Star" and that the insurance company is refusing to give you a decent credit.. but let's be fair here... who the hell builds such a magnificent weapon with a tunnel to it's core, no doors, no force field.. just a giant hole in your giant ball shaped death ray... it could fit the "Millennium falcon" easily, for Pete's sake... Sid, what were you smoking when you gave the ok for those building plans...?
i see you have forgiven Bill.. excellent, that's a good start! who knows, one day you might even forgive those blasted Rebels for taking advantage of your one weak spot!
before anyone feels the need to keep badgering or say something nasty on or about this thread.. PLEASE... stop taking yourselves so sidiously... seriously...

i feel the need for a group hug... again..
i hope i have been able to mediate a bit..
love and warmth..

Effortless mediation. I stand in awe and gratitude.

:grouphug:

[PurpleLama]

we're in a quarter moon phase where our emotions can run perpendicular or square to our desire for meaning and emotional connection.

This is normal. happens twice a month. :p

Astrology good. Ignorance bad.

hahaha nicely put, you just made my day. Thanks lol.

It made mine too. Thanks, Carmody.

[TWINCANS]

"...I, for one, am pleased to see the previously stalled dialogue (that has caused separation) reconciled back into a furthered ball game..."


Gotta wonder how long it would have taken if LS hadn't said he's one of the 18, with the instant increase in perceived status turning impatience into all-ears?

Perceived status could be argued insignificant since we don't have to wonder how long it would have taken, it's happened.

The wisdom of the request for an apology, given that a racial insult was indeed made, was always apparent. The ability to hear the wisdom took LS's announcement and subsequent raise in status. I guess the issue behind that imbalance will be 'showing soon at a thread near you'. (meaning all of us)

[777]

"...I, for one, am pleased to see the previously stalled dialogue (that has caused separation) reconciled back into a furthered ball game..."


Gotta wonder how long it would have taken if LS hadn't said he's one of the 18, with the instant increase in perceived status turning impatience into all-ears?

Perceived status could be argued insignificant since we don't have to wonder how long it would have taken, it's happened.

The wisdom of the request for an apology, given that a racial insult was indeed made, was always apparent. The ability to hear the wisdom took LS's announcement and subsequent raise in status. I guess the issue behind that imbalance will be 'showing soon at a thread near you'. (meaning all of us)

Please don't take this as a pedantic response as text might betray me here as being thus (like it aptly did in the initial birth of this thread, which stemmed from another). Was our ability to hear the wisdom honestly attained from LS's announcement or the inactivity (for right or wrong) of Bill in his response? I can only fathom that it was caused by the residual effect of both combined and the hidden motives of both therein. Who knows either party's honest reason? Should we use either party to apportion blame (not suggesting you are at all), or celebrate the organic nature of the converse we can now have as a result? I'm open to either.

[9eagle9]

Actually Jendayi I have to disagree with you. We aren't mediating that LS is a caring loving person or convincing ourselves of his loving humanity . Or that his horrible evil. Or that Bill is right and LS is wrong or vice versa.

We aren't mediating him at all we are going to (I hope) mediate a concept.

Not to say that you are right or wrong, but it is still an opionion. Not a formalized or focus concept

And not everyone agrees with you.

So that is what is going to be mediated an agreement not an opinion.

I know you mean well but right now there's too many opinions and not enough focus. LS is attempting to hold focus and he can't because there's so many opinions blurring the issue.


to everyone reading this and who is having difficulty with Lord Sidious' choices of communicating his intentions...
please take a step back and read between the lines.. an observant reader will learn that our friend sidious is actually a very loving and caring being who is really trying his best to remain consistent in a world where he is pulled back, forth and sideways while jumping through rings of fire and standing on one leg, juggling his own (no doubt unique) perspective with the perspectives of all those around him.. both on and offline... if you would take the time to read many of his posts you would know he has an enormous heart and really cares for the rest of us..
don't let his avatar and name fool you... (and be honest with yourself, are sid's nicknam & avatar affecting you on a sub conscious level? could be...)
try watching the first 3 Hellraiser movies on mushrooms, after that, lord sidious looks like a cute little bunny.. he is a really cuddly guy on the inside...
he has proven to be a valuable contributor on this forum and imho, has built up some credit.. so let's give him some... some things take time.. specially when so many factors and opinions are to be considered...

this is for you sid: (and for anyone who feels they aren't getting through to people)
Please cut the rest of us some slack. i speak from experience here brother.. many of us are much more aware of certain things than others, many of us are quite "out there" regarding our thoughts and modes of expression.. we communicate in a different language.. don't beat yourself or others up about it.. it's all nothing more than misunderstandings. good intentions lost in bad translations.. the Brick wall that was previously mentioned also has some bricks of yours in there... it's the same with your destroyed "Death Star", you can complain all you want about the rebels destroying your precious "Death Star" and that the insurance company is refusing to give you a decent credit.. but let's be fair here... who the hell builds such a magnificent weapon with a tunnel to it's core, no doors, no force field.. just a giant hole in your giant ball shaped death ray... it could fit the "Millennium falcon" easily, for Pete's sake... Sid, what were you smoking when you gave the ok for those building plans...?
i see you have forgiven Bill.. excellent, that's a good start! who knows, one day you might even forgive those blasted Rebels for taking advantage of your one weak spot!
before anyone feels the need to keep badgering or say something nasty on or about this thread.. PLEASE... stop taking yourselves so sidiously... seriously...

i feel the need for a group hug... again..
i hope i have been able to mediate a bit..
love and warmth..

[TWINCANS]

Definitely, let's "celebrate the organic nature of the converse we can now have as a result."

My comments came from reading this thread all in a row and being struck by the sudden change. When did the participants shift? After an announcement. Is that blame or assessment?

[Jendayi]

Actually Jendayi I have to disagree with you. We aren't mediating that LS is a caring loving person or convincing ourselves of his loving humanity . Or that his horrible evil. Or that Bill is right and LS is wrong or vice versa.

We aren't mediating him at all we are going to (I hope) mediate a concept.

Not to say that you are right or wrong, but it is still an opionion. Not a formalized or focus concept

And not everyone agrees with you.
So that is what is going to be mediated an agreement not an opinion.

I know you mean well but right now there's too many opinions and not enough focus. LS is attempting to hold focus and he can't because there's so many opinions blurring the issue.


i believe that was the point i was trying to get across ... :confused: maybe i should have tried a more rational approach..
before a concept is established, it helps to understand a bit more about the ones building said concept... and since humans are generally ruled by preconceptions i felt it was necessary to share what i did.. a preconceived notion about an individual can affect a project this individual is involved in in unforeseen and negative ways.. before we move on the air needed to be cleared..
like i said, stop taking it all so seriously... that goes for my post as well.. and i am not being frivolous here, i realize the concept is serious and needs to be established..
they air was just getting too thick for my taste...
just opening a window.. nothing else.. we all have our roles to play..
thank you for providing the setting for my post..
Namaste
p.s. did you expect this to be my answer?
p.p.s. i would not dare mediate Lord Sidious.. between him and others? yes..
i understand him more than most of you and sid himself might realize.. we walk a very similar path.. mine is just not that visible as his is on this forum..

[blake]

So that is what is going to be mediated an agreement not an opinion.

I know you mean well but right now there's too many opinions and not enough focus. LS is attempting to hold focus and he can't because there's so many opinions blurring the issue.

Hello 9Eagale9,

Could you clarify exactly what the issue is that is being blurred?

Sincerely,
Mr. Davis

[777]

Definitely, let's "celebrate the organic nature of the converse we can now have as a result."

My comments came from reading this thread all in a row and being struck by the sudden change. When did the participants shift? After an announcement. Is that blame or assessment?

If we can forget the people involved for a second and assess purely the motives then I see no need for blame on either part, only gratitude for the interaction at all. Hitherto, this was stalled. The announcement may appear the catalyst, but non-involvement (on Bill's part) was the slow burner catalyst too.......otherwise the equal and opposite reaction would have not occurred.

What a tangled web we weave, but at least we're weaving it again. The concept of 9eagle9's last post is highly desirable in this respect. Change and growth are always catalysed by reaction in my (oh so ever-ready to be changed/developed) opinion.

[Jendayi]

i vote we agree on NOT building a third "Death Star".. :P :behindsofa:
sorry folks.. it's getting late here in holland and i'm becoming giddy.. of to bed for me...:dizzy:
Good night, sleep tight and don't let the web bots bite
sweet dreams every one!

[9eagle9]

No I cannot clarify the issue, that is Lord Sid's role to in the focus formation. That doesn't mean I don't know what the issue means that I'd be imposing on his part in achieving clarity. He is so busy defending himself that he can't bring it out into clarity. I don't have LS's agreement on the matter of mediation and its his issue to open to mediation. I can't impose or suggest anything without his agreement.

If you want an answer though basically this not a safe environment to allow for clarity. My goal (not intention) is to make it safe others cooperation is needed.






So that is what is going to be mediated an agreement not an opinion.

I know you mean well but right now there's too many opinions and not enough focus. LS is attempting to hold focus and he can't because there's so many opinions blurring the issue.

Hello 9Eagale9,

Could you clarify exactly what the issue is that is being blurred?

Sincerely,
Mr. Davis

[

[ulli]

...everybody here is right except the lawyers...

And Bill is right 100 % since it's his forum,
AND in addition he is showing that he's got STYLE....

something others here could learn about

(Ah, shoot, I forgot...style is something you're born with...you either got it, or you don't...
back to my sushi now....)

[Teakai]

I get very irritated with all the squabbling over stupid crap when he have urgent things to begin working on.
What could be more important than the survival of most of the people on the planet, I don't know.

:lol:
Stupid crap like what exactly? Perceived offences stupid crap? :)

Just to say - you guys should probably make up a new thread about what you really want to discuss if you don't want interruptions - and make it clear from the start that you really want it to stay on course. Otherwise you're going to get all kinds of interruptions from people newly tuning in and still thinking it's about the topic in the title thread.

Maybe it could be called - "The survival of people on the planet" or something more to the point?
Just sayin'.

:)

[Lord Sidious]

Lord Sidoius, I offer my hand in help as best as I know how.

I have come to similar understandings as you, without the benefit of anyone telling me anything about anyone.

I can see the misunderstandings that abound around Bill, that seems to come from a difficulty on his part to accept that he may have made mistakes and to apologise for them.

I see this from his own writings, in this Bill has born witness with himself.

And I can appreciate the desire for Bill to be included in the coming disclosure process, but as I said in one of my earliest posts, when I was talking about the "33". I've learned a long time ago, the hard way, that it is difficult to work with someone who has no desire to work with you.

I believe allowing ourselves to completely accept Bill, as he is, may be one of the ways forward here. Although, I do agree, if he could become open and examine his heart, and become okay with his humanity, it would undoubtedly smooth the way.

He does carry the weight of his personal power...

As for the 3 forums working together, for the good of all life. There is in my mind a real necessity for this. I would like to help in anyway I can.

And, I agree with Dennis, this will eventually become viral. However, I feel we need to work some kinks out, these forums working in unique and yet, cooperative creational ways will strengthen what eventually becomes viral.

Again, I want people to know, I derive at my personal opinions here, souly by what I see and read in the public arena. Except for a few personal experiences that Life has sent my way to help me learn what is most gracious for me to know next...

I suspect that I am a bit of an odd duck, in that I have chosen to prepare both physically, and metaphysically, PEMS, physical, emotional, mental, and spiritual. I still think way to many people try to force either/or decisions when in reality there is plenty of room for and/and.

Count me in , LS, because I love the child!!!!

Thanks for the assistance and the encouragement.
That is much appreciated.
I have learnt much in this thread myself.
I am not perfect and I make/made mistakes too.
One of the things I learnt is not to strike back when someone slaps me.
I am not by nature a pacifist, I am the opposite. I have been told I could start a fight in an empty room. :cool:
But I did not strike back at those who struck out at me, so that lesson was invaluable.
I also learnt that there are many here who believe they are advanced/enlightened, but don't use their ablities to figure out what is going on, they just react.
I forgive them too, they helped me to learn that lesson, I also thank you all for that.
I hold no grudges, it isn't about that.
I would like to suggest to everyone to reflect on this and find out what you learnt, what effect your participation in this thread resulted in.
The moderation staff has been fantastic in this. I got PMs and skype calls to try and sort all this out the best way for me and for you avalonuggets.
Thanks moderationuggets, much appreciated.

I am going to think about the best way to move forward from here.
We had enough trainwrecking for a while. :p

[9eagle9]

Thank you.



Definitely, let's "celebrate the organic nature of the converse we can now have as a result."

My comments came from reading this thread all in a row and being struck by the sudden change. When did the participants shift? After an announcement. Is that blame or assessment?

If we can forget the people involved for a second and assess purely the motives then I see no need for blame on either part, only gratitude for the interaction at all. Hitherto, this was stalled. The announcement may appear the catalyst, but non-involvement (on Bill's part) was the slow burner catalyst too.......otherwise the equal and opposite reaction would have not occurred.

What a tangled web we weave, but at least we're weaving it again. The concept of 9eagle9's last post is highly desirable in this respect. Change and growth are always catalysed by reaction in my (oh so ever-ready to be changed/developed) opinion.

[Bill Ryan]

--------

Dear Friends,

I will make one more post and one more post only on this thread. This is it. :)






There will be no merger between Avalon and any other forum. For anyone who thinks this is a good idea, please go and browse Above Top Secret (http://abovetopsecret.com), Godlike Productions (http://godlikeproductions.com), or Rumor Mill News (http://rumormillnews.com). And then come back here to report what you find. (You should actually do this. This is not just rhetoric.)
Any human being is free to talk to any other human being (in my world), but I won't be taking part in any dialog with any moderators of any other forum.
Please see the last few minutes (starting at 12:46) of the trailer of Inelia's interview (http://projectavalon.net/Inelia_trailer.mp4) to understand how timelines work. I (and Inelia) have chosen a timeline in which no terrible catastrophe occurs. Others are welcome to join us.



Here's the lowdown - and it's important to fully understand:

If anyone wants to experience such an incident as Lord Sidious would like us to believe may occur no matter what, then they're totally free to do so. It's not my role to convince others not to play a particular game if that's what they want to do, for whatever reasons of their own.

A word of caution which is 100% serious: if you agree to be convinced that this kind of thing will occur, that you may (consciously or unconsciously) buy into the idea and therefore change your own timeline. This is how it works.

Friendly advice: don't do that. Much easier than stockpiling on food, guns and gold. I didn't come to Planet Earth to do that. The future I experience will be very different. I invite any of you to experience that with me.

If any of that made little sense, or seemed confusing, then (I ask you again) do watch the interview trailer (http://projectavalon.net/Inelia_trailer.mp4) starting at 12:46. Thanks.

A transcript of that section:




Inelia: Each individual on the planet has control over their own timeline. And that's one of the things that the elite don't want you to know.

Because if the person is able to change their timeline, they're not going to choose one where they're enslaved for the rest of their life.

They're going to choose one where they can manifest whatever they like, and live wherever they like, and have a beautiful life.

So when we're talking about "how we change the timeline", the correct question would be "have I changed my timeline" - and joining with those others who want the same timeline that I want.

Bill: Now... I've got the visual metaphor of "the timeline" as actually being this big braided rope made up of millions of little threads which are intertwined in any number of different permutations to make a timeline.

And each one of us creates that thread as we wish, and aligns ourselves with others who are creating their threads as they wish...

Inelia: Exactly. And you have a conscious choosing of that thread, and threading, and joining. You no longer have enslavement. It's impossible.

********

I will say no more on this, as it adds fuel to something that is not the purpose of this forum.

The principal purpose of this forum is to encourage and support positive, constructive, and high quality dialog and networking with the goal of creating the future on Planet Earth for ourselves and our children that we want to experience.

[777]

I get very irritated with all the squabbling over stupid crap when he have urgent things to begin working on.
What could be more important than the survival of most of the people on the planet, I don't know.

:lol:
Stupid crap like what exactly? Perceived offences stupid crap? :)

Just to say - you guys should probably make up a new thread about what you really want to discuss if you don't want interruptions - and make it clear from the start that you really want it to stay on course. Otherwise you;re going to get all kinds of interuptions from people newly tuning in and still thining it's about the topic in the title thread.

Maybe it could be called - "The survival of people on the planet" or something more to the point?
Just sayin'.

:)

I love your posts Teakai. A spade really is a spade.......but to play devil's advocate (with only furtherment intended, rather than offence), why disempower your sovereignty in not making that thread yourself? I'm sensing this is the point in this discourse, though I (as yet!) have no evidence..

[loveandgratitude]

THREE CUPS OF COFFEE and I am still wading through this.

Basic rules for a good mystery novel........ Never reveal the secrets too quickly........keep everyone guessing. What is going to happen next? More importantly, how is it going to end? Happy or sad.
A good book always leaves the reader with a ladder to climb out of the hole. To give a sense of empowerment, hope, encouragement. I choose a happy ending.

I really anticpate that this epic story does have a happy ending.

73697370

[Teakai]

I love your posts Teakai. A spade really is a spade.......but to play devil's advocate (with only furtherment intended, rather than offence), why disempower your sovereignty in not making that thread yourself? I'm sensing this is the point in this discourse, though I (as yet!) have no evidence..

I'm not interested in doing so 777. I have no particular interest in 'survival'. Like I said in an earlier post - I've already charted this trip - I just have to follow my heart and my insinct.

It was more of a helpful hint to those wishing for the thread to be about survival and what M'lord is eventually(?) going to dislcose and not be interrupted with the previous topic.
:)

[Lord Sidious]

--------

Dear Friends,

I will make one more post and one more post only on this thread. This is it. :)[INDENT][INDENT][INDENT]
[INDENT]
[LIST]
There will be no merger between Avalon and any other forum. For anyone who thinks this is a good idea, please go and browse Above Top Secret (http://abovetopsecret.com), Godlike Productions (http://godlikeproductions.com), or Rumor Mill News (http://rumormillnews.com). And then come back here to report what you find. (You should actually do this. This is not just rhetoric.)
Any human being is free to talk to any other human being (in my world), but I won't be taking part in any dialog with any moderators of any other forum.

I am sorry that you got the wrong idea from what I posted.
I never said anything about forum mergers, that must have been gained from reading between the lines.
I agree bill, it wouldn't work.

[Anchor]

The principal purpose of this forum is to encourage and support positive, constructive, and high quality dialog and networking with the goal of creating the future on Planet Earth for ourselves and our children that we want to experience.

You know, I think that this should be more prominent and permanent somewhere. It would help a lot.

[norman]

Well.

That final post by Bill has just about said it.

"IF" I believe his view of a choice of timeline, I would regard that as a decent mission statement.

Obviously, there are other views of what's going down here on planet earth and the main big one that Bill has 'crossed' with that statement is that he is calling for division by self selection.

There are background world views behind all such statements. I'm uncomfortable with the one that agrees most whole heartedly with the world view that made this mess in the first place.

[blake]

No I cannot clarify the issue, that is Lord Sid's role to in the focus formation. That doesn't mean I don't know what the issue means that I'd be imposing on his part in achieving clarity. He is so busy defending himself that he can't bring it out into clarity. I don't have LS's agreement on the matter of mediation and its his issue to open to mediation. I can't impose or suggest anything without his agreement.

If you want an answer though basically this not a safe environment to allow for clarity. My goal (not intention) is to make it safe others cooperation is needed.

Hello 9Eagle9,

Thank you for your answer. And I commend you for having the goal of making this "a safe environment for clarity." I think clarity of the issue is paramount,;and I think I understand why you write that this is not a safe envirnoment to allow for clarity. Wouldn't it be wonderful if we all could reflect on the statement that this is not a safe environment for clarity, and how that could, if true, affect the level and depth of our communciation on our forum.

Sincerely,
Mr. Davis

[ulli]

Thanks Bill.

I KNEW it...you're one of us !!!!

And yet I'm following you like a faithful puppy even though I knew all of this LONG before you did, hehe....

don't want anyone thinking this is a guru/disciple paradigm here

just feel that the wind needs to be taken out of the sails of a few pirate ships on this stormy ocean...

[777]

I love your posts Teakai. A spade really is a spade.......but to play devil's advocate (with only furtherment intended, rather than offence), why disempower your sovereignty in not making that thread yourself? I'm sensing this is the point in this discourse, though I (as yet!) have no evidence..

I'm not interested in doing so 777. I have no particular interest in 'survival'. Like I said in an earlier post - I've already charted this trip - I just have to follow my heart and my insinct.

It was more of a helpful hint to those wishing for the thread to be about survival and what M'lord is eventually(?) going to dislcose and not be interrupted with the previous topic.
:)

Edit: The Ace of Spades. God-speed to you. We're/I'm (same thing ultimately) very lucky you're here.

[Teakai]

Some get it, some don't, some refuse to get it.
I can only post what I post, I can't do anything else.
I am no more perfect than you are.
Did I make mistakes in this thread? Yes, I did.
Do other posters need to keep banging on that? Probably not.
The question I have for you, is how are you and your family going to survive?

Like what, M'lord?

What mistake did you make?

[Lord Sidious]

Some get it, some don't, some refuse to get it.
I can only post what I post, I can't do anything else.
I am no more perfect than you are.
Did I make mistakes in this thread? Yes, I did.
Do other posters need to keep banging on that? Probably not.
The question I have for you, is how are you and your family going to survive?

Like what, M'lord?

What mistake did you make?

You already know, why ask the question when you have the answer?

[Teakai]

Some get it, some don't, some refuse to get it.
I can only post what I post, I can't do anything else.
I am no more perfect than you are.
Did I make mistakes in this thread? Yes, I did.
Do other posters need to keep banging on that? Probably not.
The question I have for you, is how are you and your family going to survive?

Like what, M'lord?

What mistake did you make?

You already know, why ask the question when you have the answer?

Well hells bells. I thought the mistake was taking offence at Bill's comment. Yet you still feel he ought to make an apology. Why would you be asking Bill to apologise for your mistake?

[Lord Sidious]

Some get it, some don't, some refuse to get it.
I can only post what I post, I can't do anything else.
I am no more perfect than you are.
Did I make mistakes in this thread? Yes, I did.
Do other posters need to keep banging on that? Probably not.
The question I have for you, is how are you and your family going to survive?

Like what, M'lord?

What mistake did you make?

You already know, why ask the question when you have the answer?

Well hells bells. I thought the mistake was taking offence at Bill's comment. Yet you still feel he ought to make an apology. Why would you be asking Bill to apologise for your mistake?

Go back and read my posts, I already said what I did wrong.

[loveandgratitude]

It is good that we make mistakes, because that is how we learn. No point dwelling on the how's, who's and why mistakes happen. They do because it is part of the learning cycle. The main thing is that we acknowledge it, learn from it and move on, probably to other mistakes. That is OK. It is part if the human experience. As long as we learn as we bumble along, that is the most important thing to focus on.

7371

[Teakai]

I am not perfect and can't do this solo, I need your help, all of you.
I hear what you are saying and I don't want anyone left behind, or hurt either.
That includes bill, if he would only meet us halfway.

Has anyone asked Bill if he requires or even wants help? Or is this help going to be administered whether he likes it or no? I dunno, but this would seem to be more offensive that a perceived offence in regard to something as mundane as race/colour - this is against the spirit. You are removing his sovereignity (thanks for that word 777 - it came in very handy) and replacing it with your own perceived idea of what is best for Bill.

[Lord Sidious]

I am not perfect and can't do this solo, I need your help, all of you.
I hear what you are saying and I don't want anyone left behind, or hurt either.
That includes bill, if he would only meet us halfway.

Has anyone asked Bill if he requires or even wants help? Or is this help going to be administered whether he likes it or no? I dunno, but this would seem to be more offensive that a perceived offence in regard to something as mundane as race/colour - this is against the spirit. You are removing his sovereignity (thanks for that word 777 - it came in very handy) and replacing it with your own perceived idea of what is best for Bill.

Why do you want to keep dragging us backwards?
We finished all that now, no?
Did you not see that?

[edina]

I've bantied this concept that Bill and Inelia talk about for most of my life, it's really not just Bill and Inelia, it really is an ongoing discussion among people, that I've been listening to, and pondering since I was a teenager back in the '70's. I've weighed in on all sides of the discussion, and have at some point or another held essentially dozens of the various POV's myself.

In the end, there is no right or wrong in this, there are simply decisions. My own personal opinion on this is that every person is making the best decision they know how to make in any given moment based on their own current awareness. I've learned to trust this, to trust the integrity of every soul, that each soul knows it own way through the experience it is choosing.

I, for one, choose to respect Bill's wishes on this matter. Just want you and Inelia to know this.

What is expressed here by Bill is very often how shamans and medicine people will navigate/track the timelines for healing. For example, a person may have terminal cancer. Certain shamans have the skills to track the timelines and find one where this person lives. It may be a highly improbably timeline, but improbable does not mean impossible. Very often it means a person may need to change just about everything in their current way of doing things to shift themselves onto this timeline.

This can happen conjointly, in fact, this is one thing I am actively working on in my own life, as well. If anyone has noticed, I infuse grace everywhere I go, in any way I can. Now, for the first time, the latest webbot report has mentioned the word grace. So, this concept works, the current of the river can be altered.
This is not something I did alone, it was done by the hearts who resonated to grace.

To dance around the catastrophe timeline which is a joint reality timeline does require a key number of people getting this, people who know, the gnosines joining together.

I may be wrong, because I have never had this conversation with anyone, but my intuition has always told me that the 40,000 that Atticus talked about, was about this, people getting it, and working together, cohesively, from a free will choice of their own, and turning the current flow of events into a happy ending, as best as we can.

The present conjoint/consensual reality exists because so few of us have been consciously creating with deliberation. Right now, we experience what we experience collectively, because we are not clear, and working together collectively. In the past, humanity has run amok, in an imbalanced way, because this creative capacity in us has been forgotten.

There is an emergent Being of Humanity, a quiet grass roots of an awakening happening right now, for anyone who has the eyes to see this. I'm observing this, and I have also seen how this movement becomes blocked. What I recently discovered for myself, within myself, is that this blocking comes from within me, and also, from within many of us, without our realising this. This is what I talk about when I talk about how we voluntarily suppress ourselves.

From what I can tell, the more we awaken, the more our internal gunk surfaces, when we take responsibility for this, we can then recognise our internal gunk for what it is, ours, and take the opportunity to clean it up. When I clean my emotional and mental debris, I am in fact, also cleaning the emotional/mental pollution of our environment. I'm sure many people have experienced how a room feels when someone is very angry, versus how it feels when someone is cheerful. This energy lives in the spaces in between us, it is very often called the physic environment.

As long as this environment is not cleared up, it filters and clouds our creative capacities and distorts what we create into what I call miscreations.

I know I have a great deal of influence on how my timeline evolves. However, we are on this planet together, and I also know that the way through for us, together, is for us to help each other through this. To me, it has never been enough to simply survive. I have always been focussed on living. And my general purpose for being on the planet is for the restoration of all life on this planet. This will never happen with me acting only from my own resources. It will happen with us acting from our combined resources, with help from our Higher Self, Spirit.

Avalon first started by the inspiration of the Ground Crew messages, which included that when we ask for help, and act on that help when given that we would be helped in navigating the events. I have personally being witnessing this help happening all around me.

I wonder if anyone else has been witnessing this help, helping us become what we are in need of becoming.

The Handbook for a New Paradigm describes a script that had been written for all humanity, essentially a script of mass destruction. The ground crew was asked who would rewrite the script.

Well, I want to say, we did, all the Avalonians, the Roundtable, for all four forums have been gradually and conjointly rewriting that script from the drama of destruction to the drama of grace.

Please look around you, now,... listen to each other, now,.. we have turned the time lines, and we did this by staying engaged, by slogging it out together.

This is what I meant when I said the miracle has already happened. The only choice left to us now, is will we allow ourselves to experience it.

And this is what I mean when I say, I love the child, I love you, all of you, inclusive of all humanity, nature, life as a whole. This is not a sentimental statement for me, it is a deliberate choice, that I make over, and over, and over again.

This doesn't mean I won't stop preparing, certain conditions have already been set, they are already unfolding. The people in Australia who prepared were able to help the people who had not. The same in other places, too.

For me, this preparation involves making significant changes in how I live in the world, this is the painful part.

Most people will not change until the pain of staying the same is greater than the pain of changing.

However, it's possible to me, that for those of us who chose to change first, we may be able to smooth the transition for others. This is a free will choice I make. Again, because I love the child, the generations to come. We create today, what they experience tomorrow.

From what I can tell, all four forums support this positive mission. There is only an appearance of division; underneath the surface, we are one.

Let's each of us wholeheartedly accept the free will of ourselves, and each other, and dance this dance together, with our highest intentions, in a way that each of us deems best for ourSelf. I choose to trust this, and to respect each person's choice, on this matter.

Deep peace to all, and loving grace be us

[Teakai]

Go back and read my posts, I already said what I did wrong.


Yes - but after that you still required an apology. How do you not see the contradictions in what you write?

I didn't see you apologise to Bill for your mistake either.

It seems very much to me that ego is leading the way here. I can tell because ego lacks rationale.

It's a very big responsibilty you're taking on here M'lord. Where are you leading these people and are you yourself on the correct path?

[Lord Sidious]

Go back and read my posts, I already said what I did wrong.


Yes - but after that you still required an apology. How do you not see the contradictions in what you write?

I didn't see you apologise to Bill for your mistake either.

It seems very much to me that ego is leading the way here. I can tell because ego lacks rationale.

It's a very big responsibilty you're taking on here M'lord. Where are you leading these people and are you yourself on the correct path?

You have not read the posts, or you would know what I said.
What is it that you are trying to achieve?

[ThePythonicCow]

For example, a person may have terminal cancer. Certain shamans have the skills to track the timelines and find one where this person lives. It may be a highly improbably timeline, but improbable does not mean impossible.
This phrasing makes sense to me.

The variety of future timelines (not a word I would choose - but will suffice for this) available to each of us is not unlimited.

I do not believe there is any timeline available to me which has me as a 300 year old tree on some planet in a galaxy far, far away, tomorrow morning earth time.

I do believe there is a timeline available to me which has me looking tomorrow to begin training as an apprentice Buddhist monk, haven forsaken all my computer geek skills and interests. The odds of my choosing that timeline, from what I know of myself at present, are that of a snow ball in hell. Note that I say that not of disrespect for Buddhist monks, but out of awareness of the sorts of limitations I usually place on my own choices. But I suspect I could choose that.

The power of the human mind is immense -- but not unbounded.

[Belle]

--------

Here's the lowdown - and it's important to fully understand:

If anyone wants to experience such an incident as Lord Sidious would like us to believe may occur no matter what, then they're totally free to do so. It's not my role to convince others not to play a particular game if that's what they want to do, for whatever reasons of their own.

A word of caution which is 100% serious: if you agree to be convinced that this kind of thing will occur, that you may (consciously or unconsciously) buy into the idea and therefore change your own timeline. This is how it works.

Friendly advice: don't do that. Much easier than stockpiling on food, guns and gold. I didn't come to Planet Earth to do that. The future I experience will be very different. I invite any of you to experience that with me.

Whatever is left unresolved here will be unresolved no matter what timeline one may be on, whether it be a paradise or a hell.

You always bring yourself with you wherever you go...with all your strengths, weaknesses, love, hate, pain, joy...the outside may change, but the inside remains the same.

My focus remains personal growth and spiritual enlightenment, seeking inner peace and unity with others. That is the perspective I bring to this thread, so that is what I address.


Edited to add--------
Clicking thank you is not nearly enough for your wonderful post, Edina. It touched my heart and brought a tear to my eye. :hug:

[sheddie]

...........

Bravo Edina :clap2:

That was a fantastic post and echoed my feelings, intuitions and hopes...........you put it brilliantly as always.

Thanking you isn't enough and this post deserves to be read many times...

I bow down to the Wise Woman in you :hail:

much love

valx

[edina]

For example, a person may have terminal cancer. Certain shamans have the skills to track the timelines and find one where this person lives. It may be a highly improbably timeline, but improbable does not mean impossible.
This phrasing makes sense to me.

The variety of future timelines (not a word I would choose - but will suffice for this) available to each of us is not unlimited.

I do not believe there is any timeline available to me which has me as a 300 year old tree on some planet in a galaxy far, far away, tomorrow morning earth time.

I do believe there is a timeline available to me which has me looking tomorrow to begin training as an apprentice Buddhist monk, haven forsaken all my computer geek skills and interests. The odds of my choosing that timeline, from what I know of myself at present, are that of a snow ball in hell. Note that I say that not of disrespect for Buddhist monks, but out of awareness of the sorts of limitations I usually place on my own choices. But I suspect I could choose that.

The power of the human mind is immense -- but not unbounded.

Paul, you are too funny, thanks for this, luv you!!! Dinny hug :hug:

[9eagle9]

WE create timelines also within the context of the subconcious agreements that we make. The timeline is just being in alignment with the contract. You adjust the contract or renegotiate it and you create a new time line. Creating reality .

Creating reality shouldn't be confused for 'making up stuff as we go along'. Making up stuff is not reality.

You haven't consciously created the contract, it may have been created as a child ,a time you no longer recall ,who rationalize things in odd ways. Like Edina said, improbable. Not improbable to a child though. You may have grown up but the contract remains.


Stepping away from Paul, I'd have to ask everyone else what sorts of contracts are you either executing or forming during the course of this thread. Because people who hold similar contracts tend to group together. Contracts are nearly not always to one's benefit. Then you are enabling each other.





For example, a person may have terminal cancer. Certain shamans have the skills to track the timelines and find one where this person lives. It may be a highly improbably timeline, but improbable does not mean impossible.
This phrasing makes sense to me.

The variety of future timelines (not a word I would choose - but will suffice for this) available to each of us is not unlimited.

I do not believe there is any timeline available to me which has me as a 300 year old tree on some planet in a galaxy far, far away, tomorrow morning earth time.

I do believe there is a timeline available to me which has me looking tomorrow to begin training as an apprentice Buddhist monk, haven forsaken all my computer geek skills and interests. The odds of my choosing that timeline, from what I know of myself at present, are that of a snow ball in hell. Note that I say that not of disrespect for Buddhist monks, but out of awareness of the sorts of limitations I usually place on my own choices. But I suspect I could choose that.

The power of the human mind is immense -- but not unbounded.

[Teakai]

You have not read the posts, or you would know what I said.


I was wondering how you would answer that question. Clear as mud I must say :)
I have read your posts, and you said:




You already know, why ask the question when you have the answer?

Having seen no apology in order to point me in the right direction, I thought it was just the instance in regard to Bill’s comment - which clearly shows you are wrong and that any offence was merely your perspective.
I’m not going back to read your posts again. If you could just be clear with where you think you were wrong it would be so much easier and much less open to misunderstanding and misinterpretation. Probably take lots less time, too.



What is it that you are trying to achieve?

What I'm interested in is seeing where you're coming from. Whether it be from ego or from a higher source, so that I may give the information you are going to depart due consideration, is all.
So far, it's not looking favourable - but then, there's not a whole lot of information to consider - yet. ;)

:fencing: all in good fun and a spirit of camaraderie, of course.

[Teakai]

It is good that we make mistakes, because that is how we learn. No point dwelling on the how's, who's and why mistakes happen. They do because it is part of the learning cycle. The main thing is that we acknowledge it, learn from it and move on, probably to other mistakes. That is OK. It is part if the human experience. As long as we learn as we bumble along, that is the most important thing to focus on.



I most certainly agree, Loveandgreatitude. There is so much we can learn from. Hypocrisy for instance.
Do you think it is right to demand an apology from another for a perceived wrong doing, whilst failing to apologise for our own admitted errors?

[PurpleLama]

Bill is exactly right, and edina, thank you from the deepest part of my heart. All you say, I could say, but not nearly as well. It's my turn to *sniff* shed maybe a tear. So much synchronicity, I am nearly stunned. How many more will share this understanding, I wonder. How many does it take to maintain peace in the world by having peace in themselves? Only one, but we're all one.

My turn to blubber, but overcome I have become:
I love you all, Avalon and before and beyond!

I saw Sid forgive Bill with my own two eyes, so lets give him a break for anything perceived earlier in the thread, and move on. I am really curious where 9eagle9 and Sidious and the rest of us could really take this thing. What we are talking about with timelines and such is essentially white magic, and anyone who doesn't have a spiritual bone in their body, even, can do it just by imagining good things for those around them and feeling good about it. It can be just as simple as that. More and more people will see the amazing power of unselfish thought, and the unselfish part is the key.

Gosh it's great to be here with everyone.

[loveandgratitude]

An apology is a good way to have the last word.

7373

TO ALL & TO EVERYONE I EVER HURT OR MAY HURT

(I love having the last word)

AND IF YOU CANNOT FORGIVE AND FORGET
JUST PICK ONE OF THE ABOVE

[Teakai]

Why do you want to keep dragging us backwards?
We finished all that now, no?
Did you not see that?


So, pretty much, you hijacked a thread, falsely accused Bill of doing something you think he did, but which he denies doing, you demand an apology while not apologising yourself - and yet you call for unity and togetherness moving forward - but do not set that example yourself?
Perhaps it is your own inaction that is holding this thread back?

From where I'm sitting this thread has gone nowhere. It seem to me that we're all just splashing about in a mud puddle. It's lots of fun, but not very productive :)

Suggestion: Why don't you offer up something relevant in order to move the thread forward.........?

Edit to add:
P.S. I love you and I'm sorry (you're so stubborn).
;)

[Ross]

Perhaps this thread is doing what it was designed for...:suspicious:

Ross

[Sync]

Comment deferred to comment below

[Sync]

Ancient island style...

Ho'oponopono -

I'm sorry,

Please forgive me,

I love you

I thank you.

(powerful medicine... good for all people; even haoles)

[loveandgratitude]

Ancient island style...

Ho'oponopono -

I'm sorry,

Please forgive me,

I love you

I thank you.

(powerful medicine... good for all people; even haoles)

I am sorry.......I love you.........please forgive me

7374 7374



IS THERE ANYONE ELSE WHO WOULD LIKE TO GIVE THEIR APOLOGIES...............
NOW IS THE TIME TO DO SO.................
BEFORE THIS DOOR OF OPPORTUNITY CLOSES ON THIS THREAD

[Ross]

IS THERE ANYONE ELSE WHO WOULD LIKE TO GIVE THEIR APOLOGIES NOW IS THE TIME TO DO SO BEFORE THIS DOOR OF OPPORTUNITY CLOSES.

The door never closes...always an opportunity to apologise if one feels the need to do so:cool:

Ross

[loveandgratitude]

is there anyone else who would like to give their apologies now is the time to do so before this door of opportunity closes.

the door never closes...always an opportunity to apologise if one feels the need to do so:cool:

Ross


Door of opportunity on this thread............isn't this thread initally about apoligies. So we can all make use of it in a positive way ....and unload.......ross.....i love you.....please forgive me

[Ross]

ross.....i love you.....please forgive me

Nothing to forgive my dear;)

Ross

[edina]

I thought I would share again the Joe Vitale story of how a traditional Hawaiin healer healed a pych ward out of business, so the people reading this thread can see how power a spiritual tool forgiveness, or taking response-ability for what shows up in your life can be, and choosing to love ourselves.

This is also the tool that Masaru Emoto used recently in regard to the radiation in Japan. With some creativity, this tool can change the world we live in.

HO'OPONOPONO (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CDYQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ancienthuna.com%2Fho-oponopono.htm&rct=j&q=Ho%27oponopono&ei=zVHLTfbbJKPr0gGU_OjnCA&usg=AFQjCNH7FlANvbTsiyT0SfrqGFsOX7aX5Q&cad=rja)
By Joe Vitale

"Two years ago, I heard about a therapist in Hawaii who cured a complete ward of criminally insane patients--without ever seeing any of them. The psychologist would study an inmate's chart and then look within himself to see how he created that person's illness. As he improved himself, the patient improved.

"When I first heard this story, I thought it was an urban legend. How could anyone heal anyone else by healing himself? How could even the best self-improvement master cure the criminally insane? It didn't make any sense. It wasn't logical, so I dismissed the story.

"However, I heard it again a year later. I heard that the therapist had used a Hawaiian healing process called ho 'oponopono. I had never heard of it, yet I couldn't let it leave my mind. If the story was at all true, I had to know more. I had always understood "total responsibility" to mean that I am responsible for what I think and do. Beyond that, it's out of my hands. I think that most people think of total responsibility that ay. We're responsible for what we do, not what anyone else does--but that's wrong.

"The Hawaiian therapist who healed those mentally ill people would teach me an advanced new perspective about total responsibility. His name is Dr. Ihaleakala Hew Len. We probably spent an hour talking on our first phone call. I asked him to tell me the complete story of his work as a therapist. He explained that he worked at Hawaii State Hospital for four years. That ward where they kept the criminally insane was dangerous.

Psychologists quit on a monthly basis. The staff called in sick a lot or simply quit. People would walk through that ward with their backs against the wall, afraid of being attacked by patients. It was not a pleasant place to live, work, or visit.

"Dr. Len told me that he never saw patients. He agreed to have an office and to review their files. While he looked at those files, he would work on himself. As he worked on himself, patients began to heal.

"'After a few months, patients that had to be shackled were being allowed to walk freely,' he told me. 'Others who had to be heavily medicated were getting off their medications. And those who had no chance of ever being released were being freed.' I was in awe.'Not only that,' he went on, 'but the staff began to enjoy coming to work. Absenteeism and turnover disappeared. We ended up with more staff than we needed because patients were being released, and all the staff was showing up to work. Today, that ward is closed.'

"This is where I had to ask the million dollar question: 'What were you doing within yourself that caused those people to change?'

"'I was simply healing the part of me that created them,' he said. I didn't understand. Dr. Len explained that total responsibility for your life means that everything in your life- simply because it is in your life--is your responsibility. In a literal sense the entire world is your creation.

"Whew. This is tough to swallow. Being responsible for what I say or do is one thing. Being responsible for what everyone in my life says or does is quite another. Yet, the truth is this: if you take complete responsibility for your life, then everything you see, hear, taste, touch, or in any way experience is your responsibility because it is in your life. This means that terrorist activity, the president, the economy or anything you experience and don't like--is up for you to heal. They don't exist, in a manner of speaking, except as projections from inside you. The problem isn't with them, it's with you, and to change them, you have to change you.

"I know this is tough to grasp, let alone accept or actually live. Blame is far easier than total responsibility, but as I spoke with Dr. Len, I began to realize that healing for him and in ho 'oponopono means loving yourself.

"If you want to improve your life, you have to heal your life. If you want to cure anyone, even a mentally ill criminal you do it by healing you.

"I asked Dr. Len how he went about healing himself. What was he doing, exactly, when he looked at those patients' files?

"'I just kept saying, 'I'm sorry' and 'I love you' over and over again,' he explained.

"That's it?

"That's it.

"Turns out that loving yourself is the greatest way to improve yourself, and as you improve yourself, you improve your world.

"Let me give you a quick example of how this works: one day, someone sent me an email that upset me. In the past I would have handled it by working on my emotional hot buttons or by trying to reason with the person who sent the nasty message.

"This time, I decided to try Dr. Len's method. I kept silently saying, 'I'm sorry' and 'I love you,' I didn't say it to anyone in particular. I was simply evoking the spirit of love to heal within me what was creating the outer circumstance.

"Within an hour I got an e-mail from the same person. He apologized for his previous message. Keep in mind that I didn't take any outward action to get that apology. I didn't even write him back. Yet, by saying 'I love you,' I somehow healed within me what was creating him.

"I later attended a ho 'oponopono workshop run by Dr. Len. He's now 70 years old, considered a grandfatherly shaman, and is somewhat reclusive.

He praised my book, The Attractor Factor. He told me that as I improve myself, my book's vibration will raise, and everyone will feel it when they read it. In short, as I improve, my readers will improve.

"'What about the books that are already sold and out there?' I asked.

"'They aren't out there,' he explained, once again blowing my mind with his mystic wisdom. 'They are still in you.' In short, there is no out there. It would take a whole book to explain this advanced technique with the depth it deserves.

"Suffice It to say that whenever you want to improve anything in your life, there's only one place to look: inside you. When you look, do it with love."

[edina]

Inelia, and Bill, I apologise for my previous misperceptions of you.
I understand you better now, when you are ready, I ask that you forgive me, but I don't want you to feel pressure to do so,...
I completely accept you for who you are, and honor your highest intent.

I genuinely wish you both the best happiness, peace and well being.
I love you both, and consider you both a friend, without conditions,
you are free to accept this, or decline it, and it will not change my mind.

Peace to you, and grace, edina

[loveandgratitude]

Edina ....
So...........if he could heal the patients in a mental institution..........then there is hope for Avalon, right?

(HA HA):thumb:

(WINK WINK)7375

[PurpleLama]

*tears flowing*

I love you loving me loving you loving me loving you....

very good end to a great day. See you folks on the morrow.

[edina]

loveandgratitude, ... there is hope for the whole world, IMO, that's why I have stayed with this process for so long,

It's happening everywhere, if we train our eyes to see it, and then join our hands together and sing and dance it.

This tool, coupled with gratitude, appreciating our value to ourSelves and each other would amplify the healing, or evolution to wholeness.

Please, become inspired by what is possible,

[sandy]

<<see rest of post above>>
Let's each of us wholeheartedly accept the free will of ourselves, and each other, and dance this dance together, with our highest intentions, in a way that each of us deems best for ourSelf. I choose to trust this, and to respect each person's choice, on this matter.

Deep peace to all, and loving grace be us

OH Edina,

You are precious as is your post. I'm so on board with loving all of humanity and doing whatever I can do, be here and there for all. I believe we are to evolve together, timelines or not. Those who choose to work with another timeline have the right to do so, thus division is also choice.

We as a civilization do have one language in common and that is the language of love. We all feel and know feelings are universal. If we all share with each other from our hearts and listen with our hearts before engaging the brain and ego communication would flow freely on the highest vibration of all LOVE. This is the frequency that can move mountains and masses including humankind.

I love Mother Earth and all her creatures and hold that space always. I'm on the bandwagon that looks to unite and not divide, no matter the cause or rational.........................:)

[mosquito]

I thought I would share again the Joe Vitale story of how a traditional Hawaiin healer healed a pych ward out of business, so the people reading this thread can see how power a spiritual tool forgiveness, or taking response-ability for what shows up in your life can be, and choosing to love ourselves.
<<see rest of post above>>


I've encountered this before, Edina but didn't know the name or the origin. Thanks - much more thanks than the silly little button can convey, for this gem. I've been attempting (with some success) to incorporate this into my life. As you say, it's a real biggy, and not at all easy to assimilate at first. I think part of the problem is our language, and the way we view "responsibility". Also most of us still labour under the impression that "out there" really exists, a persistent illusion and devilish hard to shake off. But everything we perceive, we only perceive inside our brain, which creates a holographic image of what we believe to be the "out there" reality. (Oh God, I know what I mean, even if it's not coming across that well !!). Once we accept that (and we may need to accept it with the non-rational part of the mind) then the idea of "being responsible" for the other seems to slide into place. Or the way I find easiest is to accept thet everyone is an actor in my own personal drama, they're there because I gave them a role.
Thanks again, and I'd like to echo someone else's observation - this is in my opinion the most important thread at the moment.

[sandy]

Dear Bill and Inelia,

I love you, please forgive me, and I wish you all the best in your chosen work and mission. I Love and ask for forgiveness from Dennis and Paul/ moderators and do appreciate your hard work and freedom to follow your own path, just like the rest of Avalon and the world at large. Peace in my heart and Yours:)

[Atticus]

Greetings members of Avalon,

You know me as Atticus and I am a member of the 18. It has become necessary to state Lord Sidious, is not a member of the 18. All views and statements expressed by him are his own and do not represent us.

Thank You.

[gigha]

here we go :popcorn: :brushteeth: :thumb: :hippie:

[Lily de Cuir]

here we go :popcorn: :brushteeth: :thumb: :hippie:

Ya beat me to it....

Love Lily
x

[mosquito]

For example, a person may have terminal cancer. Certain shamans have the skills to track the timelines and find one where this person lives. It may be a highly improbably timeline, but improbable does not mean impossible.
This phrasing makes sense to me.

The variety of future timelines (not a word I would choose - but will suffice for this) available to each of us is not unlimited.

I do not believe there is any timeline available to me which has me as a 300 year old tree on some planet in a galaxy far, far away, tomorrow morning earth time.

I do believe there is a timeline available to me which has me looking tomorrow to begin training as an apprentice Buddhist monk, haven forsaken all my computer geek skills and interests. The odds of my choosing that timeline, from what I know of myself at present, are that of a snow ball in hell. Note that I say that not of disrespect for Buddhist monks, but out of awareness of the sorts of limitations I usually place on my own choices. But I suspect I could choose that.

The power of the human mind is immense -- but not unbounded.

Thanks for that beautiful honesty Paul, and for helping each of acknowledge that "changing my timeline" is not just so simple as to wake up tomorrow, tell the boss to f**k off, and then go and sit under a tree (with 6 concubines). I've made all manner of dreams come true in my life, but none of them have held together, so next time I want to get it right ! It takes time to focus all one's intent and find the truth that dwells in the heart, free of preconditioning and limiting self-beliefs, and of course, while soul-searching, there's still the daily life to live ......
Thanks again, good luck to you !

[Teakai]

here we go :popcorn: :brushteeth: :thumb: :hippie:

I dunno. I think this might be the end of the show.

[DoubleHelix]

Well I'll be.....................................

[Carmody]

Greetings members of Avalon,

You know me as Atticus and I am a member of the 18. It has become necessary to state Lord Sidious, is not a member of the 18. All views and statements expressed by him are his own and do not represent us.

Thank You.

Yeah, I felt that familiar spike in the noggin....:p

Then I saw the name among the members viewing the thread.

[gigha]

Greetings members of Avalon,

You know me as Atticus and I am a member of the 18. It has become necessary to state Lord Sidious, is not a member of the 18. All views and statements expressed by him are his own and do not represent us.

Thank You.
I think it's called a bump..... xxx

[sheddie]

curiouser and curiouser......................

:hat: LS you got our attention at least

and welcome back Atticus it is good to hear from you again - I missed you :)

much love x