White lie

[Beren]

Or should I just name it a lie.
Lie told us from the beginning that we are powerful. Well we are but we are also bluntly lied.
We are powerful but very unexperienced . And here lies a catch ; a force has fed our ego to rocket us sky high into vast space of knowledge. Knowledge ? A powerful force that we -alas -have no power to control.

There comes a lie.

A lie that we have that power. And then comes destruction. Of everything that is but Creator and his son. For truth sake ,we were allowed to prove our intention and claims.
We proved it wrong.

But again -ALAS- !!!!

We still try to bang our head through the wall to prove things that were age ago proven wrong.
Ego is a darn enemy. Eats us alive piece by piece ,like cancer. And we do not see it ,worse we dare to openly say that it does not exist.

Will we ever come to our senses?

Will when Christ returns in his glory find faith on Earth?

And I am not talking about religion of Christianity. Or better named- churchianity-...
Christ does not belong to anyone except God. We all belong to God like it or not. And very God sent his very first creation ,his own image in perfection -Jesus Christ- to explain us what does he really wants of us to be . What are we in essence. Whom we will become. What is the beginning and what is the end. What it means to love and live or hate and die. He was sent to answer ours -what ifs??? Or what or where or whys ...

But the white lie or just frankly lie is still working in humanity. People are still more than ever being seduced by it.
It talks sweet words to our ears,very words that kills. Sweet poison. To each its own dose.

The one who created Time, has said what he thought has to be said, it`s up to us to act or do nothing. Tomorrow comes where there are no more excuses.

I say it is time to root out this white lie,this poison with an eternal antidote ,heavenly antidote.
It consist of four base things that are of Creator and of his son Christ-
1.Love
2.Justice
3.Wisdom
4.Power

First ,realization of us is that we know so little that it hurts but we think that we know a lot.
Path towards God starts with humility . Path towards eternal life and light and love starts with one simple step. But that is the most difficult step-- to let go our ego.

Kill a snake of lie with strangling it . Cut of its head. Forever.

Love ,love and see what happens then!

Many obstacles will be after that first one, but the hardest fight for your life is won if your kill your own snake. Many more snakes will come until eventually great Dragon himself will come, but then if you were holding to Christ...Dragon has no chance.

Friends ,wherever you are -if we are to bow our head to someone -that is to the very Creator of universe and all that is. No one other is worthy of that. Never forget that we are deeply loved by Christ and Creator, all other is a white lie, a blunt lie.

May I see you all one day on valleys of blessings ,where tree of life grows and living water flows,before Creator.

[Tuza]

I hope that I get to be there with you Beren. Much love to you my friend. :happy:

[anikohu]

Dear Beren! Very well said!! Thank You :high5:

[greybeard]

Hi Beren good to see your post.
Yes love God with humility.
Only through loving God and surrendering to Him will the ego die and then we will be free.
It is not possible to serve two masters. God or ego - the choice is clear but not easy..
Thoughts of specialness are of the ego.
There is a love affair with "me and my thoughts"
With Love
Chris

[Beren]

Hi Beren good to see your post.
Yes love God with humility.
Only through loving God and surrendering to Him will the ego die and then we will be free.
It is not possible to serve two masters. God or ego - the choice is clear but not easy..
Thoughts of specialness are of the ego.
There is a love affair with "me and my thoughts"
With Love
Chris

And this was and is that white lie that we must overcome!
Ego and its poison...

It is healthy to be prideful but you must have balance, since ego attack that healthy pride and turns it into our worst enemy.

[Celine]

IMHO...

We are the physical manifestation of a Creators love.


We are love.

I have no need to over think it..but i do crave feeling it.

[Beren]

Celine, you are right. Unfortunate thing is that we used free will to destroy and burn worlds... Never a good thing. Instead we using our free will to further create and enjoy the harmony ,we decided to went off...

[Jacqui D]

Nice words Beren and yes, i feel that divine love when i look around me at the beauty of our animal kingdom and the wonder of nature, sadly it all has been distorted but there is still a spark something that never dies in all of us, that energy connects more with me daily.
When one connects back with the awe of life itself then you begin to understand all has to come to this point, the lie will be more.
blessing,
jacqui

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Nice words Beren and yes, i feel that divine love when i look around me at the beauty of our animal kingdom and the wonder of nature, sadly it all has been distorted but there is still a spark something that never dies in all of us, that energy connects more with me daily.
When one connects back with the awe of life itself then you begin to understand all has to come to this point, the lie will be more.
blessing,
jacqui

¤=[Post Update]=¤

oh dear sorry about that it has posted twice!

[thedot]

Dear Beren,

Our power is not a lie. If chrysalises believed so, there would be no butterflies. Our power, our true almightiness, may only seem a lie if we "externalise" God, placing him somewhere "out there". In such a case, all that is left for us is our ego, which we hate for making us so different from the image and likeness of that faraway God.

But the moment you realise that God is not somewhere outside, but inside you, that he IS you, the whole picture changes dramatically! And this is the truth that Jesus desperately wanted us to understand: that he is not a unique "son of God", but an example of what evey human being really is! Not what that mysterious external God "wants us to be", but what we already are and have always been! Try to read the New Testament with this in mind - that God, his Son and the Saint Spirit are all nobody else but you - and I'm sure you will be surprised, even shocked by the evidence of it in every line!

Already long ago (25 years or so), I had stumbled upon a book by (I believe) the French anthropologist Lucien Lévy-Bruhl where he wrote that the languages of the so-called "primitive people" seemed to have no equivalent to the word "try". In the tribes he had studied, people honestly didn't understand what he meant by "trying". For them, it was all about doing something or not. Period. And this is perfectly right! When we're "trying" to do something, we are already doing it! The only difference is that by telling ourselves that we're "only trying", we excuse ourselves in advance for eventual failure, and thus bring this failure into existence. This is why we, so-called "civilized" people, almost always fail to do what we only "try", and don't do at all what we cannot "try" first.

We cannot try to die and check whether or not death is really what we've been brainwashed to believe it is. And it's from this impossibility to "try before you buy" that comes the fear of death, "the mother of all fears", which is our worst enemy. At the same time, this fear is the best friend of our ego - it justifies ego's power upon us, since the number one job of the ego is to take care of our bodily survival. By itself, our ego is not at all our enemy! Ego is an integral part of our individuality, and without individuality there would be no life experience, which is always and exclusively personal.

So, the question is not whether our ego is good or bad, but which part of us is in command over our thoughts and acts - the "homeland security" represented by ego, or our true divine essence. When it's the latter, the ego's role is reduced to purely executive functions, in which it is our ally, not enemy. Unfortunately, giving all power inside us to our divine nature is one of the things that cannot be "tried", only done, or not. Some would say it requires a lot of courage, but we only need courage when there is something to fear. What do we fear most? Death, of course. But which death if we are all Jesus-like, God-like, and thus immortal beings, spiritual above anything else?

Have you noticed the real meaning of the Trinity in this question? That's what Marcel Messing meant in his interview (http://projectavalon.net/lang/en/marcel_messing_en.html) when, at one wonderful moment, he said, "We are the One...", and then immediately corrected himself: "We are the Ones!" We are all individuals, and "INDIVI-DUAL" means "indivisible duality" of spirit and matter - the two "components" every one of us is made of, the two parts that are One in each and every human being.

All this, of course, can also be seen as another "white lie". But it only looks so if we see our indivisible Oneness as two different things - "flesh and bones" in the mirror on one side, and God that "lives" somewhere else on the other.

[Beren]

Hello ,thedot

Thanks for nice reply.

I understand your view but I am not sure if you understood what I was saying. Truly we were made in God`s image and we have same power given to us by God. Jesus is the very image of that perfect being in flesh and in spirit .The very being that represent God since God is a spirit. And if I may say Jesus is the perfect imprint of God. Now do you think that we are that in this hour? We certainly are not. We are of God but still not yet reached our full potential. Worse we are lied that we are when in reality we are not.

Jesus said that he is the only path towards Father and truly we see that. But in order to become as Jesus -a perfect image of our Father, we need to give up our thoughts of lust ,ego and knowledge when we really do not know.

I will give you an example, Jesus talked to his disciples that they should have faith and if their faith is as small as mustard seed (extremely tiny) they can move mountains or walk the water or resurrect others or make food or heal or expel demons or whatever. But did they do that instantly? No. Even when they received that power ,they didn`t understand it. They were happy as kids when they learn some magic tricks... But Jesus told them that they are missing the point.

One day we will all have an instant recognition of that power of Divine ,it will be ours as we are existing.
But there comes a white lie that we have that power NOW. Reality shows us different thing.

Not lightly Jesus said that he is the path to Creator, we must learn from him in all aspects there is.

As sons and daughters of God we are of royal blood. And just as any prince do not rule the kingdom until he`s been appointed by his Father the King-when and if he`s ready- that`s how we do not know all and do not have all the divine secrets and powers NOW. And on that very premise we are exploited. We were told that it is our right to take the ruler ship NOW ! And then our ego worked out and still is working.
Jesus came to show us the way. To teach us the proper school.

Yes my friend you are royal prince and so am I, but that does not grant us privileges in school of life.
If he as King of Kings and Lord of Lords -Christ- had to learn humility ,then who we are to skip that lesson?

[rosie]

[QUOTE=thedot;18256]Dear Beren,
But the moment you realise that God is not somewhere outside, but inside you, that he IS you, the whole picture changes dramatically! And this is the truth that Jesus desperately wanted us to understand: that he is not a unique "son of God", but an example of what evey human being really is! Not what that mysterious external God "wants us to be", but what we already are and have always been! Try to read the New Testament with this in mind - that God, his Son and the Saint Spirit are all nobody else but you - and I'm sure you will be surprised, even shocked by the evidence of it in every line!


thedot, could not have said it any better. We have so much potential within, but we always seem to be looking for "that something" everywhere else. I have read the book with that mind set, and did have some major eye openers. We are all sparks of the source, from the source.

in love & light:)

[thedot]

Hello, Beren,

I have understood what you were saying, just disagreed with it. I definitely don't accept division into "teachers" and "pupils", "guides" and "followers". It inevitably leads to shepherd and sheep, masters and slaves... A slave stays a slave even if his master is God himself.

You seem to have missed the main point in my post: by placing God somewhere outside and above ourselves, instead of identifying ourselves with him, we are perpetuating our slavery! Kingdom = monarchy = dictatorship. Isn't it evident?

You say, "Jesus said that he is the only path towards Father..." Exactly. But it's the direction that is crucial. For you, "towards Father" means outside of what you are now; for me, it's inside.

The only thing that I don't understand in your post is how one can be lied to against one's will. If I hear a lie, and I know it's a lie, it's all up to me to accept it or not, that is, "to be or not to be" lied to. It's quite a different story, though, that too many people consciously accept to be lied to, and receive a "Prince" status (or other carrot) in exchange, ignoring that the main lie they are buying into is that they are not "Kings" already!

This reminds me what the state is doing to citizens. It "generously" tells them they are free to do this, and this, and this, and this, while hiding from them the essential: that they are simply free!

[thedot]

You made me think of another interesting thing. The Bible says, God has created man "in his image and likeness". That is to say, man is literally godlike. This means, there is nothing God can that man cannot. Nothing meaning nothing, man is not a mere creation - he himself can create! If so, if Creator can create other Creators, it allows to suppose that the entity we call God could in its turn be created by some other godlike creator. Why not by man then?? Quantum physics doesn't exclude this kind of possiblity, and the vision of the universe as a hologram even supports it! :)

[greybeard]

You made me think of another interesting thing. The Bible says, God has created man "in his image and likeness". That is to say, man is literally godlike. This means, there is nothing God can that man cannot. Nothing meaning nothing, man is not a mere creation - he himself can create! If so, if Creator can create other Creators, it allows to suppose that the entity we call God could in its turn be created by some other godlike creator. Why not by man then?? Quantum physics doesn't exclude this kind of possiblity, and the vision of the universe as a hologram even supports it! :)

The Bible said many things.
The ego wants MORE.

If I was dying on the cross I would want to say the most important thing I could.
Jesus said
"God forgive them for the know not what they do.
Thy will be done not mine."

Jesus also said "Of myself I do nothing it is the Father within"
He also said "The father and I are One"

At a non enlghtened level we have force not power. The ego wants its own way and will do whatever it can to get it.
The end justifies the means is its slogan.
The enlightened ones are extremely powerful. Gandhi liberated India from colonial rule without force or violence.

Jesus was offered control over the world by the Devil he refused.

The enlightened ones powerful vibration cancels out the negativity of this world. It does not eradicate it as there are not enough enlightened ones yet, but it would be much "worse" without their presence..
Christ consciousness is the same as enlightenment.

So at the moment we can create using the egoist force and the result is on going war, violence and misery.
The good things that have been created happen through the creative power of God flowing through individuals.

What Im getting to is that the ultimate power lies in being enlightened because being in an enlightened state they are egoless in oneness with God, they have no wants needs or desires. no selfish agenda and can therefore be trusted with overwhelming power that they allow to flow through themselves as they are aligned with the will of God.

The way to enlightenment is as pointed to by Jesus " I am the way"
Humility and surrender to Gods will.

Yes we are in essence made in Gods image etc but until we are One with God the non enlightened state is relatively powerless.
Thousands of years of war etc through not listening to the teachings of the enlightened sages that has been available since time began.
Power vs Force by Dr David Hawkins explains an amazing amount.

Link etc here

Dr. David R. Hawkins, M.D., Ph.D.

Dr. Hawkins is an internationally renowned psychiatrist, physician, researcher, and pioneer in the fields of consciousness research and spirituality. He writes and teaches from the unique perspective of an experienced clinician, scientist, and mystic and is devoted to the spiritual evolution of mankind.
http://www.veritaspub.com/

[Beren]

Greybeard, I think you rounded it up pretty good. Thedot ,I think we have much more similar line of thought than is evident here.

Being true Christian means to be a temple ,a temple where living God will dwell in his holy spirit. Now God being pure does not dwell in most if not 99,9 % of those who claim they are Christian. It is not up to us to decide or say -we are clean- it is up to one who created all.
Never forget that even we are future creators or are now creators, we were created. Will the created being argue with its Creator?
Will it say that he is right or he is wrong?

What do we know?

Everything that we know was based on his premises and rules in universe.

How can I say to him -you are wrong!!! When I don`t know all facts about even tiny leaf of the birch tree?
You have that man-God dialogue in the book of Job... a very good thing to contemplate.

My point was that we were lied in purpose.
We were told that we can decide what is right and what is wrong since we are of God.

Well we can , but only when we know all facts. Sadly we didn`t know it then when all this started. Now we see our creation of pain and suffering. And even now we still cling on to the very thing that almost killed us, a white lie which flamed our ego...

[thedot]

Yes, Beren, we're kind of describing the same thing looking at it under two different angles, which is natural, isn't it?


Being true Christian means to be a temple ,a temple where living God will dwell in his holy spirit.

I don't follow any religion, but if I did, I couldn't say it better. What you say is true not only for a true Christian - it's simply true. At least, it is true for me, a "true non-believer". :) But see how I read it:

Being true Christian (a human being represented by Christ) means to be a temple (a complex of our bodies - physical, mental, emotional and astral), a temple where living God (individualized part of my Soul) will dwell in his holy spirit (the universal part of my Soul, which I share with everything that is).

(This division of my Soul into two parts is, of course, purely symbolic - it's the same Soul that is individual and universal at the same time.)

Right or wrong - that's how I see it! I'm quite comfortable with the idea that what is right for me is not necessarily right for everybody. :)

The very notion of what is objectively "right" and objectively "wrong" makes no sense to me - I can only speak for myself, and thus only subjectively.

This is why, when you say,

Well we can , but only when we know all facts
to me, it means "never". Because what we know, or may know, are not the facts themselves but their interpretation by our mind (intellect and, of course, the ego). We are dealing with facts the same way as with any other information we receive through our five senses. For instance, we don't literally "see" anything with our eyes - they only capture certain waves at certain frequencies, and it's our brain that transforms them into "visible" image sequences. This transformation is always an interpretation, which can only be very personal. Two persons, "objectively" seeing the same thing, never perceive it exactly the same way! Leaving alone "facts"! :)

[greybeard]

Hi Paul
Im not of any religion either.
Dr David Hawkins work is refreshing because he is using quantum mechanics and the Heisenberg principal to explain the effect of consciousness on matter.
He also explains how the brain works and the evolution of mankind.
Reading the book would help you to join more dots.
We have been mislead throughout history by ignorance of truth.
We just could not tell truth from falsehood.
Regards
Chris

[thedot]

Hi Chris,

Have just checked the link in your previous post and immediately recognized the cover. Power vs. Force is an excellent book, I've read it about 15 years ago. Unfortunately, don't have it anymore. That was the time when I too readily loaned books to friends - none of them ever returned, including this one. :)

In fact, this was one of the two books (the first was The Tao of Physics by Fritjof Capra) that helped me understand the true meaning of "As above, so below". It could also be said, "As outside, so inside". I remember trying to visualize it. The first thing I thought of was the Möbius strip, but it was 2-dimensional and thus too limited. So I had imagined it 3-dimensional, a "Möbius sphere"! Could keep that image in mind for a millisecond only - it was too crazy and literally breathtaking - but it worked! Even the theory of the hollow Earth became visible, quite possible, even natural. When there is only one surface, "inside" or "outside" depends only on the location of the observer at any given moment. What's interesting here is that the observer (a human being in our case) can change his location at will, so "inside or outside" is also defined by his choice.

If I remember well, David R. Hawkins wrote that, in fact, we all have an innate knowing of what is true and what is false. We've just got too much "noise" in our mind, mostly artificially generated in order to control us, which makes it difficult for us to access this knowing, so to tell true from false, we rely, more and more, on such unreliable things as logic, "facts", and material "proofs".

[greybeard]

Hi Chris,

Have just checked the link in your previous post and immediately recognized the cover. Power vs. Force is an excellent book, I've read it about 15 years ago. Unfortunately, don't have it anymore. That was the time when I too readily loaned books to friends - none of them ever returned, including this one. :)

In fact, this was one of the two books (the first was The Tao of Physics by Fritjof Capra) that helped me understand the true meaning of "As above, so below". It could also be said, "As outside, so inside". I remember trying to visualize it. The first thing I thought of was the Möbius strip, but it was 2-dimensional and thus too limited. So I had imagined it 3-dimensional, a "Möbius sphere"! Could keep that image in mind for a millisecond only - it was too crazy and literally breathtaking - but it worked! Even the theory of the hollow Earth became visible, quite possible, even natural. When there is only one surface, "inside" or "outside" depends only on the location of the observer at any given moment. What's interesting here is that the observer (a human being in our case) can change his location at will, so "inside or outside" is also defined by his choice.

If I remember well, David R. Hawkins wrote that, in fact, we all have an innate knowing of what is true and what is false. We've just got too much "noise" in our mind, mostly artificially generated in order to control us, which makes it difficult for us to access this knowing, so to tell true from false, we rely, more and more, on such unreliable things as logic, "facts", and material "proofs".

Thanks Paul
Dr Hawkins moved me on somewhat.
His further books are even better.
The concept of using Kinesology im fine with but Im not that interested in calibrations as such.

For me his best book is Discovery of the Presence of God. Its all that a serious student of Non duality would need.

like you most of my books went to friends.

Regards Chris

[Beren]

Guys , I got to tell you my personal amazement ! Right now I am inclined to Google Dr.Hawkins and just as I wished to start ,like a flash came into my mind that verse from book of Daniel . Now before I paste it here ,I should also say that I do not belong to any religion too. I belong to Christ.

Daniel ,Chapter 12, verse 1 - 4 , and verse 9

"At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered. 2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. 3 Those who are wise [a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Daniel+12&version=NIV#fen-NIV-22085a)] will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars for ever and ever. 4 But you, Daniel, close up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge."

9 He replied, "Go your way, Daniel, because the words are closed up and sealed until the time of the end. 10 Many will be purified, made spotless and refined, but the wicked will continue to be wicked. None of the wicked will understand, but those who are wise will understand.



The thing that flashed my mind is that indeed we are at the turning point of Earth and us. Knowledge increases and many people bring their view and wits to light subconsciously or consciously because things are moving.

I will find that book of Dr. Hawkins and will see what is all about.

People arise on earth all over it (though in still small number) ,and give their perspective about things that were in the past and that are now.
That reminded me of a situation when Jesus said that who ever is not against us ,actually works with us.

So who knows whom Creator in his wisdom inclined to do something important for mankind.

But the thing that really fascinates me is that in those times when this message was delivered to Daniel so few were given that messages from God. And even that few didn`t understand 99.9% of it so the message had to be shaped in a form they could even grasp it.

Today we could understand it a bit better since we are in a different age technologically than Daniel.

But still ,the crucial thing remain, that is being righteous in order to understand the message.
That tell you that Living God will not ever give his knowledge to anyone who are not set their heart to righteousness and love.

Also when you read who was the messenger to Daniel- it was a man in linen clothe.
A man.

I think that angel that delivered the message was indeed a man , a man that we once were.
And a man that we will become. And even more.
Daniel didn`t saw a flaming fire talking to him. He saw a being that he thought it was a man.
A man on much higher plain of life and capable of who knows what in scientific way of speaking.

That man could do things that our science can never do. Cross through portals in milliseconds, bend time, travel through space without space suits or ships. He does not live on food that we know of, he is forever young looking and perfect in appearance ... and who knows how many more things... and we as mankind stream to that...

We stream but on a wrong e want all those things but without aligning our heart with Creator who gives all those things.

That`s why for me the most important thing is to be one with Christ , and with Creator.
That is the heart of the matter.
All other are toys... worthless if you don`t have a heart of the matter.

Very interesting times indeed!
I hope that one day I will know fully why,when,how I was sent here on Earth ...to do what and to learn what...

So far I`m grasping the thing of how is important to be one spirit with Creator ...

[Peace of Mind]

Every one of us haves the potential to be like Jesus was. He was a symbol of the most righteousness. Giving these same godly powers to others who have not yet master their own ego/sense of self will only fester the irresponsible behavior of these individuals. With great power comes great responsibility. Unfortunately, responsibility is an attribute our species is lacking. We are all here to serve each other, to serve the human race in our own unique special way…not by following the commands giving by other human beings. We are not here to support flawed systems, but to tear them down and replace them with efficiency. As a person’s consciousness rises they will see more of what was once beneath his/her field of view. They will know what needs to be done and plan accordingly. They will have no fear of any thing or any one. They will not sit procrastinating, or lecturing without being the example first. Fear of death is no longer a concern for you but for the unsuspecting.To give away your free will/power to an image and/or idea in hopes of being accepted is a sign of weakness and fear. All religions are mis- interpretations of ancient Sumerian text and Egyptology. Empowering yourself by doing what Jesus did is what the message of the bible is really about. Following and placing complete trust in anything outside of who you are is a setup to control you…

Many people were raised in religion so it will be harder for these people to gain their power back. If they rather kiss another persons ring while he sits on a throne (the pope), that’s their prerogative. If they want to believe their bad luck comes from the outside world and feels they need protection by worshipping the unseen….that’s their prerogative. Its free will that makes you stronger or weaker by taking on the responsibility or cowering in pray. It’s up to you to be what you were meant to be, or you can be a slave to the system… or even worse…a person who just sits around watching life go by without getting involved…and if their only involvement is to convince others to be another idle soul…what a waste…and utter evilness. Are you a leader of your own destiny or a follower of someone elses's theories? You owe it to yourself...


Peace

[Moxie]

I read this thread, then went outside to to do some chores and this line from a song came to mind.... "well, Oz never did give nothing to the tin man, that he didn't, didn't already have"...
I related this to realizing God is within, always been there.
God hid himself right under your nose, so to speak.
I seem to recall a verse in the bible somewhere, where Christ "found himself in the form of a man"

Then I remembered something Greybeard posted recently that I really liked, something like:
religion is about worshiping the messenger... spirituality is being one with God.
I guess that's the only thing that bothers me this talk of Jesus as a standard to compare yourself too when the books of the bible have been compromised, perhaps to seem unattainable.

just my thoughts.

good day everyone.

Just wanted to share that.

[Beren]

Moxie,

That`s the beauty of Jesus `s message .
But until a person reaches the beauty ,he/she must surrender their ego trips...
Even him being without ego trip had to bear trial period because he found himself in a form of a man-with different feelings and functions. But he always knew who he is and that is why he didn't succumb.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Peace of Mind;

you have said it well!

:-)

[greybeard]

I dont know if this is true but it seems to me the lie was for religion to put Jesus on a pedestal.
Yet all through the bible Jesus said he was no better than us.

Now here is what I think is important,
When Jesus said " I am the way" "I think he meant that discovering the eternal I within was the way"

That makes to me more sense, It is not possible to come to God through another, no matter how Sacred or Holy

What about all those born before Jesus?

Were they denied THE WAY?
I think not.

The sages since time began pointed to THE WAY.

Discover I AM That I AM within.

Discover the "I" and you have found the way.


Thats my guess

Chris

[Micjer]

I am in agreement with you on this point Greybeard. I was contiplating this very thing the other day. Yep any one born before Jesus was born was out of luck I guess. LOL

There are so many statements in the bible that make so much more sense when looked at from a different angle.

[thedot]

But until a person reaches the beauty ,he/she must surrender their ego trips...

Hmm... Jesus stayed true to his human personality (ego) till the very last moment. He hasn't surrendered. Why should I? By surrendering as a human being, don't I betray myself as a divine being? How can surrendering at all lead to the beauty?.. :) AND - surrender to whom, surrender to what? To God? But he's a part of me, my higher self, not next floor but inside of me. He's what I really am...

[greybeard]

Hmm... Jesus stayed true to his human personality (ego) till the very last moment. He hasn't surrendered. Why should I? By surrendering as a human being, don't I betray myself as a divine being? How can surrendering at all lead to the beauty?.. :) AND - surrender to whom, surrender to what? To God? But he's a part of me, my higher self, not next floor but inside of me. He's what I really am...

Hi Paul
The sages use persona to communicate in this world. They are ego less.
Jesus did surrender.
He knew he was going to be crucified he could have got out of it.
On the cross he said "God forgive them for they know not what they do" also "Thy will be done not mine"
Jesus was one with the Father.
Every sage has promoted surrender in devotion to the Creator even though they have realized God within and experience oneness.

Dr Hawkins, whom you have read, maintains that the intellect will only take one so far then it becomes a barrier. Unconditional love takes one the rest of the way.
Unconditional love has discernment-- the person is loved not necessarily what the person does.
Mind cant love unconditionally it always looks for reason.

The I within is hidden from us because of ego.
Ego goes, self is revealed.
All sages say that.
Chris

[grace]

Now here is what I think is important,
When Jesus said " I am the way" "I think he meant that discovering the eternal I within was the way"

That makes to me more sense, It is not possible to come to God through another, no matter how Sacred or Holy

Chris

there's always the possiblity that jesus never said "I am the way"...

[greybeard]

Hi Grace yes there is every possibility that Jesus never said "I am the way."
It certainly suited the Christian religions to claim he did.
A very divisive statement --- It made everything before Jesus Null and Void and all other religions worthless.

Chris

[greybeard]

Hi Grace yes there is every possibility that Jesus never said "I am the way."
It certainly suited the Christian religions to claim he did.
A very divisive statement --- It made everything before Jesus Null and Void and all other religions worthless.

Chris

[Beren]

Grace,

Sure there is that possibility . Even by any crazy chance he did state that, an honest researcher would after spending quite a lot of time found out that actually he IS the only way to the Father.

His words are above religions,man made pattern of thoughts ,philosophies-eastern or western...
His words are of truth since he speaks of Father`s words. He did not speak of him self. Sure he ,with all that power could have taken this planet a while ago but the grand divine plan for whole universe would be then broken. And he being one with Father simply did not wished that he usurp Father`s place.

No one ever saw the father except only begotten son -Christ. He is the perfect imprint of the Father, both in spiritual body and dimension and in physical while on Earth.
One day soon we will also be as him ,for he called us to be so. Perfect before Father and him and worthy to be named his brothers.
For there is no man or woman, nation colour or creed before Christ and Father, the ones who are redeemed are one in Christ and Father. They are in same spirit with him,same spirit but every one unique before Father.

This is still hard to understand for many , imagine how hard must have been 2000 years ago and even more in the past when all they could grasp was visible things such is temple in Jerusalem.
Temple and all that was in it was just a symbol of things unseen in heaven-completely different dimension than ours.

They had to go through "school" in order to even grasp spiritual things. Even we today have huge problems since materialism is in bedded in our lives.

[Beren]

One more thing to add;

have you all notice how people tend to grab something and claim that it`s their own-when it really isn`t ?

Many sages were speaking truths in their own time but always there would be someone who would make a cult of that or claim that words for him or themselves ...

Same happened with Christ...

Many hijacked his words and turned it into dogma for making profits of various kind ...

BUT that does not mean that Christ will not punish them for theft!
Message is still there - it is up to us to see it or turn our head away...

[grace]

Grace,
His words are above religions,man made pattern of thoughts ,philosophies-eastern or western...
His words are of truth since he speaks of Father`s words. He did not speak of him self..

yea i would deffinitely consider that he said it and that it has been misinterpreted, but like like chris said, the idea carries a lot of weight if it's taken literally. it just seems too convenient for a power structure to be something Jesus really said.

[QUOTE=Beren;18659]
For there is no man or woman, nation colour or creed before Christ and Father, the ones who are redeemed are one in Christ and Father. They are in same spirit with him,same spirit but every one unique before Father.
QUOTE]

ok so when Jesus said "I am the way" he meant "I" as in the Christ that he is, something that we could also realize and be. this makes sense, thanks.

[truthseekerdan]

Hi Beren,

First I want to thank you for starting this thread, and also thanks to everybody else for participating in the discussions -- you know who you are. :grouphug: Now lets clarify some things for whom wants to know more... :)

What makes something true? Every single one of us has their own opinions and ideas, and they are all valid because we are all unique drops in this infinite ocean of divine conscious intelligence. The time for ignorance is over and we are all being called to wake up from much of what has kept us in the dark.

But, we've all been told different things about truth, especially through religions and their doctrines. Many of us are afraid to question these "beliefs" because we fear moving away from our comfort zone or what others might think. But whatever the excuses are, we need to realize that it is just ego (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?860-The-Ego-what-is-it-How-to-transcend-it.&p=17666&viewfull=1#post17666) and we need to transcend this aspect of ourselves to move towards our higher being and our true selves; more than just the physical body and egoistic mind and reach for our true potential. (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%2010:34-35&version=NKJV)

I, for one, am excited to be living in a time when masses of people are expressing freedom of thought, that was previously wasted on dogma and mental boxes; set up by those who had hidden agenda's. Speaking from a Christian background I know that the fear based religions would rather prevent the true knowledge and wisdom from seeping into the minds of the people. They encourage a closed mind to remain in power, and distorted and manipulated many truths. They also don't encourage opening your mind to any outside knowledge or anything that might liberate you from the fear based paradigm.

It was very empowering for me to finally realize that I didn't have to serve my "religious" beliefs but rather have my beliefs serve me. I could choose what my higher self was guiding me to believe based on love (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%2013:13&version=NIV) rather than fear or the ego-identity. (http://www.myspiritualoasis.org/showthread.php?12-The-Ego-what-is-it-How-to-transcend&p=402&viewfull=1#post402) Many of us are now realizing that our "faith" or the fear based beliefs that we were conditioned to believe, that what our parents and their parents were conditioned to believe was not assisting us into evolving to a higher level of consciousness. What a perfect way to transcend it, by growing up within such an environment and moving beyond it, to become more of who we really are? (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm%2082&version=NIV)

I know for me, the path to opening my mind was subtle, but I know what I resonated with and what I didn't even as a child. If the ego had any part to play in the teaching or book I was came across, I would feel the tension and the fear and knew that it wasn't my truth, even though it was conflicting for me. I now see that human made truth is just that, not divine truth. Divine truth (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2017:20-21&version=NIV) never changes but man made dogma and creeds always have, always to suit those most craving power, money and control.

I know one thing for certain, a true religion or set of beliefs should not hide knowledge that has the potential to set you free. (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Cor.3:6&version=NIV) But those who have the power won't give you that knowledge. We are moving to the point where we have to see how we are all connected as one Humanity and not get pulled away from knowing we are all in this evolutionary journey together. Therefore we must embrace everyone, regardless of any difference in faith, color, political standing, nationality, etc.

It does require courage to break away from limiting beliefs and the barriers that prevent us from reaching our full potential, but the rewards are so worth it. When we realize that the truth is within our hearts we will never give our power away to anyone ever again. The reward is the joy of freedom to be who you were created to be. Our inner guidance can never lead us astray if we focus on taking full responsibility for ourselves 100% of the time and remain centered in our integrity to follow our higher self. (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mat.23:8-12&version=NIV) There are great websites and books that your higher self will guide you to find when you are ready.

So as our great teacher, Jesus said, "the key of knowledge is within", inside one's feeling body. Innocent ignorance is no longer an option when quantum physics has proven what the mystics have said for thousands of years. One thing is for sure, you won't find the whole truth in religions, governments, media or any other institution owned by those few who possess all the money and power. The goal was to keep you ignorant but it wasn't meant to last forever. We can claim our abdication with courage and will, the will that comes from our higher self that is always leading us out of the untruth.

Ask yourselves these questions about any of your beliefs:

1. Where did the belief originate?

2. Why do I believe it?

3. What do I feel when I think about not believing it?

4. Is fear part of this belief?

5. Does the belief serve my sense of inner peace or is it serving someone or something else?

When you ask these five questions of all your beliefs, then you realize that 99.99% of what you have confidence in, including what you claim to be your spiritual knowing can be traced to someone's need to control and/or be right.

Good read about: How complete/accurate is the today's Bible? (http://www.myspiritualoasis.org/showthread.php?32-How-complete-accurate-is-the-today-s-Bible)

This is what I will add to your phrase Beren if you don't mind: Love, love unconditionally and see what happens! :thumb:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sbU7Yb2OK8&feature=player_embedded#

[bluestflame]

the personality yeshua allowed the divine to speak through him , people that heard the words and felt the divine connection knew exactly what he meant , people that weren't there wrote about it from what other people said (how do you know I wasn't there?)

[Beren]

the personality yeshua allowed the divine to speak through him , people that heard the words and felt the divine connection knew exactly what he meant , people that weren't there wrote about it from what other people said (how do you know I wasn't there?)

You know there is a very nice story by Jesus him self which explains people and their hearts... a story about seed and good or bad soil.
Mark ,chapter four;


1Again Jesus began to teach by the lake. The crowd that gathered around him was so large that he got into a boat and sat in it out on the lake, while all the people were along the shore at the water's edge. 2He taught them many things by parables, and in his teaching said: 3"Listen! A farmer went out to sow his seed. 4As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up. 5Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow. 6But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root. 7Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants, so that they did not bear grain. 8Still other seed fell on good soil. It came up, grew and produced a crop, multiplying thirty, sixty, or even a hundred times." 9Then Jesus said, "He who has ears to hear, let him hear."
10When he was alone, the Twelve and the others around him asked him about the parables. 11He told them, "The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables 12so that,
" 'they may be ever seeing but never perceiving,
and ever hearing but never understanding;
otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!'[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark%204&version=NIV#fen-NIV-24333a)]"
13Then Jesus said to them, "Don't you understand this parable? How then will you understand any parable? 14The farmer sows the word. 15Some people are like seed along the path, where the word is sown. As soon as they hear it, Satan comes and takes away the word that was sown in them. 16Others, like seed sown on rocky places, hear the word and at once receive it with joy. 17But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. 18Still others, like seed sown among thorns, hear the word; 19but the worries of this life, the deceitfulness of wealth and the desires for other things come in and choke the word, making it unfruitful. 20Others, like seed sown on good soil, hear the word, accept it, and produce a crop—thirty, sixty or even a hundred times what was sown."

[Snowbird]

I AM....that I AM. The simpler, the better. Having come to the earth plane for this incarnation, has taught me about dualism...ego vs. spirit. My challenge has been to separate the two and learn to discern between the difference.

Mission being accomplished.