Gardening,organics,sustainable gardening,food crops,etc

[Samarkis]

Hi everyone!

I have been saying this for a while and several other mastergardeners have agreed that we need to set up a good thread.....so please......
Post great links,clips,reference,tips,pics etc!!


Here is a Square gardening
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5Lu-7FIj_g clip.....: )

[tone3jaguar]

The biggest key is to avoid monostands. A monostand is where multiple plants of the same variety are right next to each other. This drastically reduces the chances of insects or diseases blighting the garden.

[Samarkis]

Here is a great link to all kind of cool green housing solutions!!

http://green.yahoo.com/topic/Design/

[dddanieljjjamesss]

My main concern right now is how to effectively grow food in New England to the point of being able to survive...

I have been looking at indoor gardening, and it seems feasible, but in the event that one can't pay the electric and heating bills there's not much you can do up here during the cold season.

I was considering buying a high pressure sodium light and transforming the pantry into a little garden. It would be enough fresh organic food to help my roommates and I get through a rough period. As far as outdoor gardening, I don't live in an area that will support it, and it isn't viable because of the weather.

Anyone want to come up with a fool proof food solution? A way to TRULY be "self sufficient?"

[bluestflame]

companion planting , back in the old days they used to do this , course things were harvested by hand ...like planting herbs among the vegies to reduce the insects also certain types of plants compliment each others growth , might see if i can find some of them farmers almanac old books

¤=[Post Update]=¤

pumpkin vines can be trailed up chicken wire fixed to a side wall the pumpkins hang down like basketballs and sit nice on the plate when cooked and cut

[Samarkis]

That's why "canning" was so popular.....one would grow things in warm times and "preserve" it for winter......Things like tomatoes,sweet potatoes,muscadine grapes....these grow like weeds and are usually hardy & then one can can them....if ya want fresh greens, learn how to grow sprouts....alfalfa,beans,other exotic greens......they usually sprout in a jar of water within 2-3 days & are fresh greens.....just rinse out two times a day so ya don't have bacteria growing amongst it......: )




My main concern right now is how to effectively grow food in New England to the point of being able to survive...

I have been looking at indoor gardening, and it seems feasible, but in the event that one can't pay the electric and heating bills there's not much you can do up here during the cold season.

I was considering buying a high pressure sodium light and transforming the pantry into a little garden. It would be enough fresh organic food to help my roommates and I get through a rough period. As far as outdoor gardening, I don't live in an area that will support it, and it isn't viable because of the weather.

Anyone want to come up with a fool proof food solution? A way to TRULY be "self sufficient?"

[Celine]

Foraging is a skill many of us should learn as well..

Gardening is not always a practical solution.

Top 7 Resources for Learning to Safely Forage for Wild Food...

http://www.greenjoyment.com/top-7-resources-for-learning-to-safely-forage-for-wild-food.html

[elspru]

I support seedball forest gardening.
It is simple, easy to learn the basics, highly productive,
and can sustain itself without maintenance.

seedballs:
dWyduWsoy8o

forest gardening:
u75q3KaZGy4

[Beth]

Hi all, thought I'd just add to this thread instead of starting a new one. Just wanted to share my little project with you :)

Our garden is doing really well so far and I plan on canning quite a bit of stuff. A customer of ours is going to give us a canning machine, which is very nice of her!

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f302/yaya551/coop/garden.jpg

Also, I've been raising some chicks for eggs, they are growing quite fast. We also built the coop ourselves and it's almost done (thank God, lol).

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f302/yaya551/coop/bigchicks.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f302/yaya551/coop/almostdone.jpg


Here's a pic of them as babies for all you fellow animal lovers:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f302/yaya551/coop/chicks3.jpg

[Beth]

Chicken coop is done! YAY!

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f302/yaya551/coop/alldone.jpg

[yiolas]

That's a beautiful chicken coop Yaya. I've got some of my own that I will share soon.

[Beth]

That's a beautiful chicken coop Yaya. I've got some of my own that I will share soon.

Thank you very much yiolas, it was quite a bit of work, LOL. I look forward to seeing your pics!

[HORIZONS]

Chicken coop is done! YAY!

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f302/yaya551/coop/alldone.jpg

Well done I'd say - you could probably sell some pre-fab kits to the locals around your area.
Here are my chickens: http://www.youtube.com/user/xfwykklp#p/u/18/SgI9t4Fvd8E

[morguana]

The Essence of Biodynamics (http://www.biodynamic.org.uk/)


A biodynamic farm functions as a strong, self-sustaining and vibrant single organism that recognizes and respects the basic principles at work in nature. It is a complete system in which all the different components of the farm are seen as parts of a greater whole. With farm animals at the centre a self-sustaining, balanced and harmonious environment is the result.

Special manure and herb-based preparations are applied to the fields and compost to enhance and stimulate the microbiological life in the soil and improve fertility. These have been shown to significantly improve the health and well being of soil, plant and animal as well as enhancing the vitality, flavour and keeping qualities of the produce for the benefit of the consumer. With the soil sequestering up to 25% more carbon than conventional farming methods, the health of the planet is also cared for. Biodynamic is a sound basis for sustainable food production.

Further to this biodynamic farmer recognizes that the life of a farm is exposed to wider as well as internal farm-based influences. The more subtle rhythms associated with the sun, the moon and the planets form the basis of an annually produced planting calendar. This guides the farmer towards appropriate times for cultivation and sowing for maximum quantity and quality.

The result is a rich and diverse farm built on sound organic principles that is embedded and sensitized to its surroundings. It produces food with such an individual quality that, as with wine, it can be described as having the ‘terroir’ of the farm – the sense of the place where it was grown.

might wish to check out bio-dynamic farming practices
where we used to live we had a veg box from our local bio-dynamic farm, the food was awsome, really tasty, this practice can be scaled to ones own needs
love m

edit to add, dont forget to keep a third of ones crop to reseed, that way the plants over time will adapt to ones own soil, environment etc :)

[Beth]

Well done I'd say - you could probably sell some pre-fab kits to the locals around your area.
Here are my chickens: http://www.youtube.com/user/xfwykklp#p/u/18/SgI9t4Fvd8E

You have quite a few chickens, LOL!

[HORIZONS]

Here is one of the gardens we have this year...

http://web.me.com/expanding_horizons/Expanding_Horizons/Garden.html

We also did an onion bed, a garlic bed and a cantaloupe bed.

PS. That's WAY to many chickens - I like your setup better. LOL :)

[Beth]

Here is one of the gardens we have this year...

http://web.me.com/expanding_horizons/Expanding_Horizons/Garden.html

We also did an onion bed, a garlic bed and a cantaloupe bed.

PS. That's WAY to many chickens - I like your setup better. LOL :)

Oh wow, are those sunflowers? Those are some tall plants, LOL. The tomatoes look yummy!!!!

I'll have to take a recent pic of my chick, Ladybug. She's very tame and likes to sit on my shoulder, she's very sweet :)

[HORIZONS]

Oh wow, are those sunflowers? Those are some tall plants, LOL. The tomatoes look yummy!!!!

I'll have to take a recent pic of my chick, Ladybug. She's very tame and likes to sit on my shoulder, she's very sweet :)

I would love to see a chicken sitting on your shoulder - that would be a redneck pirate in this neck of the woods. LOL :D

[Beth]

Just got a canning book today, I have a lot to learn. :faint:

And I promise to get a pic of Ladybug on my shoulder soon, lol.

[Caren]

And don't forget the others (chickens) yaya - might we see them all? I suspect one will have a cast on it's toe, poor girl (the chicken) :)
Blessings,
caren

[Beth]

And don't forget the others (chickens) yaya - might we see them all? I suspect one will have a cast on it's toe, poor girl (the chicken) :)
Blessings,
caren

Sure will Caren, I'll try to get them all. I would have gotten pics this evening but we had storms roll in. The hen seems to be doing better though. Love to ya!

[Beth]

Caren, the chicks are running around the yard today and being unruly. So is Ladybug, but Birdy decided she wanted some attention today so here goes the hillbilly pirate.

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f302/yaya551/coop/birdygirl.jpg

[HORIZONS]

aye, that be there a mighty fine chicken on yer shoulder Elli May

[Beth]

aye, that be there a mighty fine chicken on yer shoulder Elli May

Thanks hun, I have a couple that are pretty tame and they just jump up. Just gotta watch for them pooping on my back, lol.

[Caren]

Hey Horizons,
Your hilarious! :)
caren

[1love]

My main concern right now is how to effectively grow food in New England to the point of being able to survive...

I have been looking at indoor gardening, and it seems feasible, but in the event that one can't pay the electric and heating bills there's not much you can do up here during the cold season.

I was considering buying a high pressure sodium light and transforming the pantry into a little garden. It would be enough fresh organic food to help my roommates and I get through a rough period. As far as outdoor gardening, I don't live in an area that will support it, and it isn't viable because of the weather.

Anyone want to come up with a fool proof food solution? A way to TRULY be "self sufficient?"

There is a book called "Four Season Harvest" which is available on Amazon. It's written by a guy from Maine so i suppose it is possibe!

[onawah]

That's why "canning" was so popular.....one would grow things in warm times and "preserve" it for winter......Things like tomatoes,sweet potatoes,muscadine grapes....these grow like weeds and are usually hardy & then one can can them....if ya want fresh greens, learn how to grow sprouts....alfalfa,beans,other exotic greens......they usually sprout in a jar of water within 2-3 days & are fresh greens.....just rinse out two times a day so ya don't have bacteria growing amongst it......: )

Lentils, mung beans and clover sprouts are my favorites. I sprout flax seeds and blend them in my morning smoothie. Spirulina and Chlorella powder are good superfood staples for winter months.

You can also grow things like wheat grass, sunflower sprouts, buckwheat "lettuce" in shallow trays of soil indoors. There are some good full spectrum light bulbs available on Dr. Mercola's site.
http://products.mercola.com/light-bulbs/?aid=CD847&gclid=CLPemqnA_KUCFQl_5Qod2nv4ow I keep my trays on the floor on plastic sheets near the windows with light bulbs on nearby.

[Nenuphar]

.

Neat way to grow mushrooms...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pibnCO3HKHI

Supplies are available HERE (http://fungi.com/plugs/index.html)

I also think this herb spiral is beautiful and practical...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxGqUnHz-1A


.

[Highwhistler]

Hello Friends,

About 70% of all the food that I've consumed in the last 3+ decades has been from food that was grown in my own back yard. I grow open-pollinated plants, which produces the seeds that will become next year's garden.

Here is a page on my site that has a half-dozen photos of my last garden, plus an introduction my unique growing methods that include no-tilling, and self-replicating naturalized vegetables, herbs and flowers. (http://www.soulconnection.net/galleries_tekas_gardens.html)

http://www.soulconnection.net/images/garden/Tekas_garden.jpg

Home gardeners with very small growing spaces can create diverse plant communities like in this photo below ... so that when the plants mature, their outer leaves touch. They are not too crowded ... the spacing between each plant is just right to encourage their rapid, robust growth, as well as their happiness ...

http://www.soulconnection.net/images/garden/Tekas_lettuce_basil_intensive.jpg

[lightblue]

.
thanks highwistler, i do want to copy you.. :yu: l


.

[Highwhistler]

GROWING QUINOA FOR LEAVES

http://www.soulconnection.net/images/garden/Tekas_garden_quinoaforleaves.jpg

One of my all-time favorite plants is Quinoa. I have grown it for seed, but I always grow it for its leaves.

The leaves taste delicious and are mild -- I think Quinoa and Lambsquarters are related -- and you can start harvesting the leaves when the plants are very young ... and continue harvesting every day for a couple months.

Our friends on this forum only need a little area -- say 3 feet by 3 feet of garden space. Broadcast Quinoa seeds so that they appear to be about 1" apart. Cover the seeds with a light sprinkle of organic, loose soil ... then water daily. Keep the soil evenly moist. When the plants come up and are 3" tall ... begin harvesting the plants that are close together. The plants that you harvest can be added to salads.

The plants will, of course, continue to grow ... and continue to harvest the plants until eventually the individual plants are about 8" apart. Then ... let those plants grow up-up-up and out-out-out ... to beautiful maturity. As they are growing ... you can come back each day and harvest a handful of leaves or more.

Never take too many leaves off of a single plant as the green leaves are solar collectors and the plant needs a good amount of leaves to capture the sun's energy. A good idea for the gardener is to keep the plants looking about as leafy and robust as that small patch of Quinoa that you see in my garden above, as that patch is harvested daily ... but you can tell by looking at the plants that they are happy, vibrant, and have enough leaves to continue rapid continuous growth (and leaf production).

[Highwhistler]

AMARANTH

http://www.soulconnection.net/images/garden/Tekas_giant_red_amaranth.jpg

This beautiful Giant Red Amaranth, is 10 feet wide and 10 feet tall. A typical healthy, mature red amaranth is 1/10th this size. To the left you can see a 7-foot tall tithonia (Mexican Sunflower) ... a plant that many gardeners are more familiar with.

The reason for this amaranth’s life-energy and size is not only attributed to my selection of the most robust individuals year after year, but also because the soil is so amazingly rich, alive, deep and loose.

The bed in which the amaranth is growing, has not been stepped in by any human foot in 15 years.

Not compressing the soil in any way over long periods of time makes a huge difference in the vitality of the plants that are grown.

[sister]

Chicken coop is done! YAY!

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f302/yaya551/coop/alldone.jpg

Nice coop!
Thanks for sharing your photos. My husband and I have been on the fence about raising chickens for a couple of years now.
Seeing other folks do it is very encouraging to me :)

[Ella]

WOW Highwhistler, your garden looks amazing. I'm a very new veggie gardener, but I really want to give it my all. I'm interested in using permaculture techniques this year. And I really want to try Quinoa! Thanks for giving me some inspiration, thanks to everyone on this thread, I hope I can ask you all for some advice in the future and share how my project is going.

Right, about time to check out the seed catalogues me thinks.....

Happy gardening to you all.

[Highwhistler]

Thank you Ella & All!

If you have any gardening questions, present them here in this topic and I'm sure we, collectively, can give you several good answers.

Here's another plant that is grown in a lot of gardens -- the Love Lies Bleeding Amaranth that is visually striking, its an ancient grain that is very prolific, you can use it for cut flowers ... and the little birds (like chickadees and goldfinches) enjoy their tiny seeds, as well:

http://www.soulconnection.net/images/garden/Tekas_love_lies_bleeding.jpg

[Dennis Leahy]

http://www.7thsensemultimedia.com/Imagez/GardenSign_1357.jpg
To try to make the garden fun, whimsical, and inviting to my daughter, we did a family project to make the garden sign (arch above the garden gate.) I just did the carpentry; my wife and daughter made the cool art work.

I also bandsawed out a wiggly handle for the door, and we planted a lot of colorful veggies (both for extra phytonutrients and fun!), such as 2 kinds of purple potatoes, purple string beans, purple ("Purple Haze") and white carrots, purple sweet basil, purplish tomatoes, and 8 different squash of various colors.



http://www.7thsensemultimedia.com/Imagez/DTLeahy_IMG_1243_Garden2010.jpg
A big day of tomato harvesting (3 or 4 varieties in this giant bowl.)



http://www.7thsensemultimedia.com/Imagez/PurpleTomatoes_1316.jpg
This was the purplish variety, "Pruden's Purple " that we grew.


http://www.7thsensemultimedia.com/Imagez/DTLeahy_IMG_1246_Garden2010.jpg

http://www.7thsensemultimedia.com/Imagez/SalsaFresca_1249.jpg
Fresh garden salsa, "salsa fresca" - one of the best instant gratification rewards for gardening. Several kinds of tomatoes (the sweet Sungold dominated the flavor), onions, jalapeno peppers, garlic, cilantro. All organic - only the garlic was purchased. Organic non-GMO blue corn chips. Can you taste it?

Dennis

[ZuLiZ]

companion planting , back in the old days they used to do this , course things were harvested by hand ...like planting herbs among the vegies to reduce the insects also certain types of plants compliment each others growth , might see if i can find some of them farmers almanac old books

¤=[Post Update]=¤

pumpkin vines can be trailed up chicken wire fixed to a side wall the pumpkins hang down like basketballs and sit nice on the plate when cooked and cut

Wow! Never heard of this I was thinking that pumpkins take up so much space due to growing along the ground. I will keep this one in mind when I finally get my sustainable garden up and running! Thanks..

[ZuLiZ]

That's why "canning" was so popular.....one would grow things in warm times and "preserve" it for winter......Things like tomatoes,sweet potatoes,muscadine grapes....these grow like weeds and are usually hardy & then one can can them....if ya want fresh greens, learn how to grow sprouts....alfalfa,beans,other exotic greens......they usually sprout in a jar of water within 2-3 days & are fresh greens.....just rinse out two times a day so ya don't have bacteria growing amongst it......: )

Lentils, mung beans and clover sprouts are my favorites. I sprout flax seeds and blend them in my morning smoothie. Spirulina and Chlorella powder are good superfood staples for winter months.

You can also grow things like wheat grass, sunflower sprouts, buckwheat "lettuce" in shallow trays of soil indoors. There are some good full spectrum light bulbs available on Dr. Mercola's site.
http://products.mercola.com/light-bulbs/?aid=CD847&gclid=CLPemqnA_KUCFQl_5Qod2nv4ow I keep my trays on the floor on plastic sheets near the windows with light bulbs on nearby.



Wonderful information thanks! One thing I'm still not privvy to is if we get to a point where the seeds become hard to buy, how do we harvest seeds from alfalfa and other sprouting seeds - I live in the tropics and so they go mouldy really quickly which is something I've discovered even with commercially bought seeds. I have to refrigerate everything!

[ZuLiZ]

Chicken coop is done! YAY!

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f302/yaya551/coop/alldone.jpg

Nice coop!
Thanks for sharing your photos. My husband and I have been on the fence about raising chickens for a couple of years now.
Seeing other folks do it is very encouraging to me :)

Same here Sister. We live in Indonesia where chickens roam around the village scratching in the dirt. However we would prefer to keep our chickens seperate - in the case of avian flu and other nasties around here. I just love your coop Beth and its given me some hope for our own. Do you ever let them out to roam?

[Highwhistler]

For growing sprouts in places like the hot tropics and deserts, you may have to create a small temperature controlled room (using a cooler or air conditioner) so that the air temperature can be held around 72 degrees.

I live in Arizona's high desert (which is much cooler than the low desert, of course) and I grow sprouts year-round. But even now, on warm days, I've noticed that the sprouts in the jars are getting a little too warm. When that happens I just find a cooler place in the house to put the jars. Moving the jars to a place that is 5 or 10 degrees cooler makes them much happier.

My thoughts on growing plant varieties in the garden to produce seeds for sprouting -- try growing mung, lentil, fenugreek and clover. They make a terrific sprouting mix.

In the garden ... wheat, sunflower and buckwheat are easy to grow to maturity. Harvest their seeds to grow wheatgrass, sunflower sprouts and buckwheat sprouts indoors, year-round.

http://www.soulconnection.net/images/garden/wheatgrass-sprouts01.jpg

[Inelia]

So! Time to plant the seeds. And I am worried.

My back yard was a toxic and chemical perfect landscape when I arrived here 5 years ago. The first 3 years I used only organic produce to help it as it made the transition from shallow rooted, unsuitable plants to strong deep rooted trees and plants, with a good mixture of species to make a habitable environment. I now have strong healthy trees and the lawn is really healthy.

BUT I have not grown vegetables before last year:

I have the following problems. Last year I planted the Three Sisters, corn, squash and beans. I also planted tomatoes and celery nearby. In august, all the plants were covered in some really nasty white stuff, it looked like chemical burns, it killed the corn outright, the squash did survive, and the beans were half and half. The tomatoes all split after a certain size. As it is time to plant seeds again, I was wondering if anyone could give me some advice on what I am doing wrong.

The other problem. When we first got here there were hardly any birds, and now they are abundant. My grapevines, cherry and plumb trees were stripped of fruit even before they ripened. And the strawberry plants and blue berry plants had the same sad ending. We managed to eat two cherries, one plumb, a handful of strawberries and about 4 blueberries. We've been trying different methods to scare birds, as well as covering the plants, but they still manage to get them! Now, I am wondering, would putting a huge bird feeder during the fruit season help or make it worse? I'm thinking if the little buggers are full, they are going to leave the fruit alone, right?

[Midnight Rambler]

So! Time to plant the seeds. And I am worried.

My back yard was a toxic and chemical perfect landscape when I arrived here 5 years ago. The first 3 years I used only organic produce to help it as it made the transition from shallow rooted, unsuitable plants to strong deep rooted trees and plants, with a good mixture of species to make a habitable environment. I now have strong healthy trees and the lawn is really healthy.

BUT I have not grown vegetables before last year:

I have the following problems. Last year I planted the Three Sisters, corn, squash and beans. I also planted tomatoes and celery nearby. In august, all the plants were covered in some really nasty white stuff, it looked like chemical burns, it killed the corn outright, the squash did survive, and the beans were half and half. The tomatoes all split after a certain size. As it is time to plant seeds again, I was wondering if anyone could give me some advice on what I am doing wrong.

The other problem. When we first got here there were hardly any birds, and now they are abundant. My grapevines, cherry and plumb trees were stripped of fruit even before they ripened. And the strawberry plants and blue berry plants had the same sad ending. We managed to eat two cherries, one plumb, a handful of strawberries and about 4 blueberries. We've been trying different methods to scare birds, as well as covering the plants, but they still manage to get them! Now, I am wondering, would putting a huge bird feeder during the fruit season help or make it worse? I'm thinking if the little buggers are full, they are going to leave the fruit alone, right?

I come from a family of farmers and I know a little about growing. I would suggest planting potatoes in your garden for a year. It is good for the soil.

The berries you must try to cover with a net and hang it around the bush so that the bird cant get to it.

And about the bird feeder, if I were a bird I would choose fresh fruit over seeds etc. always.;)

I hope this helps you somehow.

[norman]

The tomatoes all split after a certain size.


I don't know what the white stuff was but when tomatoes split it is usually due a sudden abundance of water at the roots after having struggled for a while in a drought.

[Inelia]

The tomatoes all split after a certain size.


I don't know what the white stuff was but when tomatoes split it is usually due a sudden abundance of water at the roots after having struggled for a while in a drought.

OH! yes, actually that did happen. My drip system was knocked out of the beds by my dog and it took me about a week to spot that. TY!!

That gives me the confidence to try tomatoes again this year :D

[Midnight Rambler]

Dear Inelia,

Maybe you know this already, but when growing strawberries it helps to replant them to another part of the garden after two years. the ground is depleted of nutrients for the plant.

[Inelia]

Dear Inelia,

Maybe you know this already, but when growing strawberries it helps to replant them to another part of the garden after two years. the ground is depleted of nutrients for the plant.

I had no idea, ty :D

[Beth]

Same here Sister. We live in Indonesia where chickens roam around the village scratching in the dirt. However we would prefer to keep our chickens seperate - in the case of avian flu and other nasties around here. I just love your coop Beth and its given me some hope for our own. Do you ever let them out to roam?

Thank you. Yes, they get to roam quite a bit in the summer, but with over a foot of snow on the ground, they don't get out much in the winter :lol:

[iceni tribe]

dont even need a garden

http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx171/naf09_2010/DSC00359.jpg

water is important to

http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx171/naf09_2010/DSC00360.jpg

[Midnight Rambler]

Are those tomatoes?

[iceni tribe]

Are those tomatoes?

they be spuds my friend these are toms lol

http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx171/naf09_2010/DSC00361.jpg

[Midnight Rambler]

Great stuff!! I am going to grow some again this spring!

Wauw spuds in a bucket

I grow flowers and love to photograph them. Look here! (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/album.php?albumid=279)

[DeDukshyn]

The tomatoes all split after a certain size.


I don't know what the white stuff was but when tomatoes split it is usually due a sudden abundance of water at the roots after having struggled for a while in a drought.

OH! yes, actually that did happen. My drip system was knocked out of the beds by my dog and it took me about a week to spot that. TY!!

That gives me the confidence to try tomatoes again this year :D

I'm not much of a gardener, but sounds like the white stuff may be a fungus? Possibly from the water debacle? (plants get a bit dry, weakend, fungus starts to creep ... just an idea). Also My farmer friend plants peas every four years instead of the usual grain crops - he said, pick your peas then work the scrap plant parts into the soil and it puts the nitrates back in, so you don't need fertilizer.

[Midnight Rambler]

So! Time to plant the seeds. And I am worried.

My back yard was a toxic and chemical perfect landscape when I arrived here 5 years ago. The first 3 years I used only organic produce to help it as it made the transition from shallow rooted, unsuitable plants to strong deep rooted trees and plants, with a good mixture of species to make a habitable environment. I now have strong healthy trees and the lawn is really healthy.

BUT I have not grown vegetables before last year:

I have the following problems. Last year I planted the Three Sisters, corn, squash and beans. I also planted tomatoes and celery nearby. In august, all the plants were covered in some really nasty white stuff, it looked like chemical burns, it killed the corn outright, the squash did survive, and the beans were half and half. The tomatoes all split after a certain size. As it is time to plant seeds again, I was wondering if anyone could give me some advice on what I am doing wrong.

The other problem. When we first got here there were hardly any birds, and now they are abundant. My grapevines, cherry and plumb trees were stripped of fruit even before they ripened. And the strawberry plants and blue berry plants had the same sad ending. We managed to eat two cherries, one plumb, a handful of strawberries and about 4 blueberries. We've been trying different methods to scare birds, as well as covering the plants, but they still manage to get them! Now, I am wondering, would putting a huge bird feeder during the fruit season help or make it worse? I'm thinking if the little buggers are full, they are going to leave the fruit alone, right?

Maybe it is Mildew? Does it look like this? (http://www.google.nl/images?hl=nl&rlz=&=&q=Mildew&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=1920&bih=899)

[Inelia]

So! Time to plant the seeds. And I am worried.

My back yard was a toxic and chemical perfect landscape when I arrived here 5 years ago. The first 3 years I used only organic produce to help it as it made the transition from shallow rooted, unsuitable plants to strong deep rooted trees and plants, with a good mixture of species to make a habitable environment. I now have strong healthy trees and the lawn is really healthy.

BUT I have not grown vegetables before last year:

I have the following problems. Last year I planted the Three Sisters, corn, squash and beans. I also planted tomatoes and celery nearby. In august, all the plants were covered in some really nasty white stuff, it looked like chemical burns, it killed the corn outright, the squash did survive, and the beans were half and half. The tomatoes all split after a certain size. As it is time to plant seeds again, I was wondering if anyone could give me some advice on what I am doing wrong.

The other problem. When we first got here there were hardly any birds, and now they are abundant. My grapevines, cherry and plumb trees were stripped of fruit even before they ripened. And the strawberry plants and blue berry plants had the same sad ending. We managed to eat two cherries, one plumb, a handful of strawberries and about 4 blueberries. We've been trying different methods to scare birds, as well as covering the plants, but they still manage to get them! Now, I am wondering, would putting a huge bird feeder during the fruit season help or make it worse? I'm thinking if the little buggers are full, they are going to leave the fruit alone, right?

Maybe it is Mildew? Does it look like this? (http://www.google.nl/images?hl=nl&rlz=&=&q=Mildew&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=1920&bih=899)

YES! exactly like that.

[Midnight Rambler]

Mildew wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mildew)

And how to prevent it (http://extension.missouri.edu/publications/displaypub.aspx?p=gh5928)

[Dennis Leahy]

Ineila's hungry birds made me think of my hungry voles!

The vast majority of my strawberries were eaten by voles (also known as "field mice".) They are able to sprint right through my fence, that was put up to keep out deer and rabbits. This year, I'm spending the money to add a 1/4" x 1/4" wire mesh at the bottom of the fence (I'll bury it, at least 6" deep.) I actually found 4 different middens (nests - they look like birds' nests) around the garden over the course of the year. They also went after my squash, and once they broke the skin, they destroyed a squash within a day or two.

http://www.7thsensemultimedia.com/Imagez/SquashVole_1348.jpg
Orange Kabocha Squash
I understand the pleasure the mice get in eating these squash. They are the best tasting squash I've ever had - and make wonderful squash pie!

Dennis

[Midnight Rambler]

I understand the pleasure the mice get in eating these squash. They are the best tasting squash I've ever had - and make wonderful squash pie!

Dennis

Hm Sounds good. I must try to grow them. Do you have a recipe?

[Inelia]

Mildew wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mildew)

And how to prevent it (http://extension.missouri.edu/publications/displaypub.aspx?p=gh5928)

Fantastic, now my plants will have a better chance... I found this too, I think it's what I will be using if it comes back this year: http://organicgardening.about.com/od/diseases/qt/bakingsodaspray.htm

[Ron Mauer Sr]

My setup for square foot gardening.

http://ronmauer.net/SQFT.JPG

I have a lot to learn about gardening.

Not shown are 6 hens and 1 rooster in a large electric fence area. An electric fence keeps the 4 legged predators away but the hawks sometimes get an easy meal. The *previous* rooster was sometimes very aggressive. One afternoon I returned from the store and checked the chicken house for eggs while carrying plastic totes full of groceries. The old rooster was having a bad day I guess because he launched a surprise attack. Wish I had a video. There I was fighting this rooster flying up at me with his long and sharp spurs. I was kicking, yelling and swinging the grocery bags at each attack. The fight ended up a draw, I think, when he decided to quit. We were both still standing. But the bottom of the grocery bags had been ripped open by his sharp spurs as I was swinging in self defense. The groceries ended up scattered all over the chicken pen.

[Dennis Leahy]

I understand the pleasure the mice get in eating these squash. They are the best tasting squash I've ever had - and make wonderful squash pie!

Dennis

Hm Sounds good. I must try to grow them. Do you have a recipe?
Yes, and it's vegan! I'll dig the recipe out, transcribe it, and PM it to you in a day or 3 (if you can wait.) Otherwise, you can use a "pumpkin pie" recipe, and substitute many different kinds of squash. This squash is ideal for pie because it has a robust flavor, is sweet, has no stringiness, and has relatively firm texture - not watery or mushy. It makes better "pumpkin pie" than pumpkins do!

Dennis

[Midnight Rambler]

I can wait, I first have to grow them. :p

What kind of squash do you grow? Do ya have some seeds?

[Dennis Leahy]

Mildew wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mildew)

And how to prevent it (http://extension.missouri.edu/publications/displaypub.aspx?p=gh5928)

Fantastic, now my plants will have a better chance... I found this too, I think it's what I will be using if it comes back this year: http://organicgardening.about.com/od/diseases/qt/bakingsodaspray.htm

Inelia,

I have made so many mistakes in gardening, allow me to pass on one of them - so you can avoid it: plants need air circulating through the leaves. I have done it more than once (slow learner, I guess), where I underestimate how wide the plants are going to get, and plant things too close together.

Unlike companion planting (where the beans and maybe even squash vines might use the corn stalks for a trellis), if you plant most plants too close together, air cannot circulate, water stays on the leaves too long, and you'll get a variety of fungal problems. Tomatoes are very susceptible, but it can happen with potatoes, peppers, carrots, strawberries, squash...

Also, last year's vines and leaves that had fungal problems should not go in your compost pile, unless you are an advanced wizard at composting and can nearly make the pile light itself on fire. A typical compost pile will not kill the fungus, and though the composted soil will look rich, it will contain millions of mold spores.

Another 100 years of gardening, and maybe I'll make every mistake possible, and can pass on more tidbits of info.

Dennis

[blake]

Hi all, thought I'd just add to this thread instead of starting a new one. Just wanted to share my little project with you :)

Our garden is doing really well so far and I plan on canning quite a bit of stuff. A customer of ours is going to give us a canning machine, which is very nice of her!

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f302/yaya551/coop/garden.jpg


Also, I've been raising some chicks for eggs, they are growing quite fast. We also built the coop ourselves and it's almost done (thank God, lol).

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f302/yaya551/coop/bigchicks.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f302/yaya551/coop/almostdone.jpg


Here's a pic of them as babies for all you fellow animal lovers:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f302/yaya551/coop/chicks3.jpg

Hello Beth,

Nice Chicken Coop! Ae your chicks winter hardy?

Mr. Davis
2/10/11

[Beth]

Hi Mr. Davis, they are white rocks, which are very winter hardy. It's also important to get chicks at the right time of year to acclimate them to the weather. That's why it's good to get spring chicks, so they are ready by the fall.

[Dennis Leahy]

I can wait, I first have to grow them. :p

What kind of squash do you grow? Do ya have some seeds?
I intended to grow 8 kinds of squash last year - some from seeds I had saved, some from seeds I bought, and a few from plants (starts.) I dedicated 1/3 of my garden to squash.

So I found out, the hard way, that squash plants easily cross-pollinate and make up new, strange varieties. I believe that I had crosses between delicata+spaghetti, pumpkin+something else, and some strange butternut squash variety that was green instead of tan. Those were the weird ones, but I also grew:
Winter squash:
Orange Kabochia*
Buttercup*
Butternut* (normal, dark tan ones)
Delicata*
Spaghetti

Summer squash:
Zucchini
Yellow
Zephyr

The ones with an asterisk are my recommendations. I may plant just one yellow squash this year, and at most one zucchini. I got several bushel baskets full, and no one wants them. It's like trying to give away a fruitcake at Christmas.

Since I got the weird cross-species, and since none of the crosses were anything I'd really want to do again, I'm buying new squash seeds this year, not saving. (If/when Monsanto takes over the world, I'll reconsider and keep all seeds.) I guess the best accident was the spaghetti+delicata cross, which gave a stringy texture like spaghetti squash, and a bit more flavor. They were immense compared to Delicata (which is more like a big cucumber size), and not as big as the biggest Spaghetti squash.

The seeds we purchase (from organic seed companies) are from very large fields of the same variety - that's why they can say with relative certainty just what you'll end up with.

Dennis

[blake]

Hi Mr. Davis, they are white rocks, which are very winter hardy. It's also important to get chicks at the right time of year to acclimate them to the weather. That's why it's good to get spring chicks, so they are ready by the fall.


Hello Beth,

I have Black rocks. I didn't know they came in white. We have been very happy with ours. They have been producing all winter! So many people told me that egg production would slow down in deep winter, but so far we have been very lucky.

Sincerely,
Mr. Davis
2/10/11

[Beth]

Hi Mr. Davis, they are white rocks, which are very winter hardy. It's also important to get chicks at the right time of year to acclimate them to the weather. That's why it's good to get spring chicks, so they are ready by the fall.


Hello Beth,

I have Black rocks. I didn't know they came in white. We have been very happy with ours. They have been producing all winter! So many people told me that egg production would slow down in deep winter, but so far we have been very lucky.

Sincerely,
Mr. Davis
2/10/11

Well we made a window for them in the coop so that they could receive adequate sunlight in the winter, which sunlight is very important for producing eggs. We are getting good egg numbers as well. Plus the window serves to help heat the coop and extra 10 degrees.

Glad to hear things are going well for you too!

[Highwhistler]

... all the plants were covered in some really nasty white stuff, it looked like chemical burns, it killed the corn outright, the squash did survive, and the beans were half and half. The tomatoes all split after a certain size ...

We've been trying different methods to scare birds, as well as covering the plants, but they still manage to get them! Now, I am wondering, would putting a huge bird feeder during the fruit season help or make it worse?


The "white stuff" was probably a fungus that lives in the soil, and when the conditions are just right in your local, unique garden ecosystem, it quickly grows and attacks certain varieties of plants.

Try befriending the local organic farmers -- the people who set up booths at the farmer's market -- and pick their brains to see what unique varieties of tomatoes, beans, squash (and everything else) they are growing. They -- through years of trial, error and experimenting -- have found the varieties that grow well in your local micro-climate. The specific varieties that they are growing & selling have proven to have a natural resistance to the fungus and diseases that are also natural to your local ecosystem.

Another tip is to find ways to not water your garden from above as much as possible. He-he ... that may seem like an impossibility, but that is exactly what I do. Return to my garden photos that started this thread and you will see a huge, robust garden that is watered from under the soil's surface. For that garden, I have soaker hoses spaced 12 inches apart, that are 1 inch below the surface of the ground. The whole watering system runs on two, small, inexpensive, battery operated timers that water the garden twice a day for 20 minutes each. One watering is at 4pm ... one is at 4am. Hence, I hardly do any hand-watering at all for the entire year ... and the whole garden operates on automatic pilot. I do surprisingly little work in the garden.

Plants absolutely LOVE consistent below ground watering throughout the season and throughout their lives. And, by watering your garden with below ground soaker hoses, you only use 1/3 of the total amount of water that is used through typical above ground sprinklers, hoses, and spraying by hand.

The final suggestion is to continue doing everything that you can to nourish and loosen the soil. Building an incredible, heavenly soil over the years will manifest plants that are a reflection of the soil, and that have natural defenses against molds, fungus, diseases and insects.

With your fruit and the birds who love them -- for the time-being, get large, wide rolls of bird netting. At the first sign that the birds are enjoying an excessive amount of fruit, cover-up your trees and fruit-bearing plants from top to bottom. You have to cover the whole plant and not leave any openings as the clever little birds will go under the netting and have a wonderful feast.

[SHAPE]

http://www.7thsensemultimedia.com/Imagez/GardenSign_1357.jpg
To try to make the garden fun, whimsical, and inviting to my daughter, we did a family project to make the garden sign (arch above the garden gate.) I just did the carpentry; my wife and daughter made the cool art work.

I also bandsawed out a wiggly handle for the door, and we planted a lot of colorful veggies (both for extra phytonutrients and fun!), such as 2 kinds of purple potatoes, purple string beans, purple ("Purple Haze") and white carrots, purple sweet basil, purplish tomatoes, and 8 different squash of various colors.



http://www.7thsensemultimedia.com/Imagez/DTLeahy_IMG_1243_Garden2010.jpg
A big day of tomato harvesting (3 or 4 varieties in this giant bowl.)



http://www.7thsensemultimedia.com/Imagez/PurpleTomatoes_1316.jpg
This was the purplish variety, "Pruden's Purple " that we grew.


http://www.7thsensemultimedia.com/Imagez/DTLeahy_IMG_1246_Garden2010.jpg

http://www.7thsensemultimedia.com/Imagez/SalsaFresca_1249.jpg
Fresh garden salsa, "salsa fresca" - one of the best instant gratification rewards for gardening. Several kinds of tomatoes (the sweet Sungold dominated the flavor), onions, jalapeno peppers, garlic, cilantro. All organic - only the garlic was purchased. Organic non-GMO blue corn chips. Can you taste it?

Dennis


Hi Dennis

The salsa fresca looks absolutely delicious!!!

We are doing the same here in oz and totally agree one of the many rewards for doing your own garden.

Maybe we can share ideas ? Any reason why you don't grow your own garlic ? Let me know my partner has started her own crop of spanish garlic and was harvested over the spring here in oz.

BTW love the sign over the garden.

Peace and love

[SHAPE]

Hi Mr. Davis, they are white rocks, which are very winter hardy. It's also important to get chicks at the right time of year to acclimate them to the weather. That's why it's good to get spring chicks, so they are ready by the fall.


Hello Beth,

I have Black rocks. I didn't know they came in white. We have been very happy with ours. They have been producing all winter! So many people told me that egg production would slow down in deep winter, but so far we have been very lucky.

Sincerely,
Mr. Davis
2/10/11

Well we made a window for them in the coop so that they could receive adequate sunlight in the winter, which sunlight is very important for producing eggs. We are getting good egg numbers as well. Plus the window serves to help heat the coop and extra 10 degrees.

Glad to hear things are going well for you too!

Hi Beth and Mr Davies

similar story here, we have rhode island reds and they too are laying very healthy, even though we have had a vey hot summer here in oz. My partner loves her babies!!

Mind you at times our roosters can be very aggresive, but like usual pick them up and give them a big hug and kiss and they remmeber all is good.

peace and love

[blufire]

Inelia, I would like to suggest a couple more ideas regarding your mildew/fungus problem. Two things I do if faced with fungus/mildew.

1) I use a spray much like the recipe you found but while the foliage is still wet I distribute diatomaceous earth (.fossilized remains of diatoms) liberally over the plants. Whenever a plant is stressed, such as mildew event, the insects will then attack and further damage the plant. This is a prophylactic measure to give the plant the best possible chance to recover and grow healthy. DE is an organic pest control. I put DE (food grade) in my livestock feed to control parasites and worms.

Also, where my chickens come in and out of the hen house I dig a bit of a hole 12”x12” and add a couple inches of DE so they will have to walk through it. I have never had a problem with mites or parasites with the “girls”

2) If I have a summer where there is significant mildew, fungus or nematode problem, I “cook” the soil that fall and into the following spring. I get fresh poop (chicken, horse, goat, cow) and spread about 4” over the area (I have lots of poop) cover the poo with 6” or 8” of weather hay and water well. Then black plastic is put over these layers and secured. The result is a solar oven and the ground will heat up to 160 to 180 degrees which destroys the mold, fungus, nematodes and sterilizes the soil and you have a great composted area to grow in!

[ZuLiZ]

dont even need a garden

http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx171/naf09_2010/DSC00359.jpg

water is important to

http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx171/naf09_2010/DSC00360.jpg


Thanks for the pictures - I'm a visual learner so they help! What is the shed on the right used for - chickens?

¤=[Post Update]=¤



Are those tomatoes?

they be spuds my friend these are toms lol

http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx171/naf09_2010/DSC00361.jpg


Ha ha...... can I come and be your neighbour!! Wonderful!

[Thunderbird]

hi all, thought i'd just add to this thread instead of starting a new one. Just wanted to share my little project with you :)

our garden is doing really well so far and i plan on canning quite a bit of stuff. A customer of ours is going to give us a canning machine, which is very nice of her!

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f302/yaya551/coop/garden.jpg

also, i've been raising some chicks for eggs, they are growing quite fast. We also built the coop ourselves and it's almost done (thank god, lol).

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f302/yaya551/coop/bigchicks.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f302/yaya551/coop/almostdone.jpg


here's a pic of them as babies for all you fellow animal lovers:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f302/yaya551/coop/chicks3.jpg


awesome beth!!!

[Thunderbird]

dont even need a garden

http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx171/naf09_2010/DSC00359.jpg

water is important to


http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx171/naf09_2010/DSC00360.jpg


Thanks for the pictures - I'm a visual learner so they help! What is the shed on the right used for - chickens?

¤=[Post Update]=¤



Are those tomatoes?

they be spuds my friend these are toms lol

http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx171/naf09_2010/DSC00361.jpg


Ha ha...... can I come and be your neighbour!! Wonderful!

THIS IS AWESOME TOO!

WOW y'all are so inspiring!!!

Im in the middle of seed starting right now in the Bathhouse.....cause its a greenhouse too.

We have got a BUNCH of work ahead of us....5 acres of planting, and a greenhouse to build along with irrigation and raised beds around the kitchen house...

Im gonna start taking pictures and sharing with yall!

¤=[Post Update]=¤

This is BY FAR THE COOLEST THREAD here!

[norman]

I'm going to say it exactly like it is for me right now.

I grew up on a small farm in the 60s and have a lot of deeply embedded 'natural' nounce for agriculture and almost as much for horticulture too ( my mother grew up as a daughter of a market gardener )

I now find myself living in a tiny little terraced house with very little garden. I'm not very fit or active these days either.

I would be very interested in hearing from someone here who lives in UK with the means or the money to create a 'ground up' self sufficient unit. I would leave the fancy stuff up to others ( although I do have a keen interest in making music ) and apply myself to the practicalities of the basics.

Anyone?

PM me if you think this migtht be what could be a match with your situation and aspirations. My house isn't worth much right now but I'd happily sell it and relocate to a more organic situation than this obviously derelict way of life I have right now.

[Dennis Leahy]

Hi Dennis

The salsa fresca looks absolutely delicious!!!

We are doing the same here in oz and totally agree one of the many rewards for doing your own garden.

Maybe we can share ideas ? Any reason why you don't grow your own garlic ? Let me know my partner has started her own crop of spanish garlic and was harvested over the spring here in oz.

BTW love the sign over the garden.

Peace and love
Yes, we all need to share our best ideas, whether we believe we invented them (I'm always re-inventing inventions hahahaha), or got them from another source. We ALL need gardening skills - might even be life or death survival skill, if enough Sh!t hits the fan.

After a few years of not gardening (except just potted tomatoes), the past 3 years I have gotten back into it big time. Each of the past 3 fall seasons, I swear I'm going to put garlic in, and each fall, I'm so overwhelmed with harvest and food storage that I just don't do it. I have friends that grow lots of organic garlic, so no problem (so far) getting good garlic in trade. I think it is also possible to put garlic in the ground in early spring, for a (moderate) fall harvest, so I'll look into that.

Thanks!

Dennis

[Dennis Leahy]

I'm going to say it exactly like it is for me right now.

I grew up on a small farm in the 60s and have a lot of deeply embedded 'natural' nounce for agriculture and almost as much for horticulture too ( my mother grew up as a daughter of a market gardener )

I now find myself living in a tiny little terraced house with very little garden. I'm not very fit or active these days either.

I would be very interested in hearing from someone here who lives in UK with the means or the money to create a 'ground up' self sufficient unit. I would leave the fancy stuff up to others ( although I do have a keen interest in making music ) and apply myself to the practicalities of the basics.

Anyone?

PM me if you think this migtht be what could be a match with your situation and aspirations. My house isn't worth much right now but I'd happily sell it and relocate to a more organic situation than this obviously derelict way of life I have right now.
Norman,
For the current (quickly approaching) growing season, if you remain where you are but want to increase the number of plants you can grow in a small space, consider (small-scale) "vertical farming." Here's a link to some good ideas: http://containergardening.wordpress.com/2007/08/14/gardening-ideas/

Another possibility is sprouting seeds at home in a sprouting jar - they are packed with nutrients (especially when compared to the bleached-out lettuce often served at restaurants!)

If you are not active, but want to become more active, gardening may be a great way to get a bit of exercise and some sunshine. Just don't overdo it on any one day, and quite likely, you'll see your stamina grow as you exercise a bit more. Don't let yourself grow sedentary! I know, from personal experience, that once you get out of shape, the road back to health is much more difficult than maintenance.

Best of luck to you, and happy gardening!

Dennis

[Highwhistler]

Hi Norman and others in the UK,

Have you seen this amazing organization that
connects people who want a space to grow a garden
with people who have a gardening space
that they want to share?

Landshare (http://www.landshare.net)

[Inelia]

Hi Norman and others in the UK,

Have you seen this amazing organization that
connects people who want a space to grow a garden
with people who have a gardening space
that they want to share?

Landshare (http://www.landshare.net)



OH! that is fabulous. I've been googling something like this for the USA, but can't seem to find one. I would love to share my yard with someone who knows what they are doing and split things 50/50 (not a big yard, but it's something).

[SHAPE]

Hi Dennis

The salsa fresca looks absolutely delicious!!!

We are doing the same here in oz and totally agree one of the many rewards for doing your own garden.

Maybe we can share ideas ? Any reason why you don't grow your own garlic ? Let me know my partner has started her own crop of spanish garlic and was harvested over the spring here in oz.

BTW love the sign over the garden.

Peace and love
Yes, we all need to share our best ideas, whether we believe we invented them (I'm always re-inventing inventions hahahaha), or got them from another source. We ALL need gardening skills - might even be life or death survival skill, if enough Sh!t hits the fan.

After a few years of not gardening (except just potted tomatoes), the past 3 years I have gotten back into it big time. Each of the past 3 fall seasons, I swear I'm going to put garlic in, and each fall, I'm so overwhelmed with harvest and food storage that I just don't do it. I have friends that grow lots of organic garlic, so no problem (so far) getting good garlic in trade. I think it is also possible to put garlic in the ground in early spring, for a (moderate) fall harvest, so I'll look into that.

Thanks!

Dennis

Good on you Dennis, sounds like you are now back on track with your gardening and doing very well!!!.

I believe planting garlic in spring is possible so good luck with that.

Peace and love.

[Ron Mauer Sr]

Hi Norman and others in the UK,

Have you seen this amazing organization that
connects people who want a space to grow a garden
with people who have a gardening space
that they want to share?

Landshare (http://www.landshare.net)



Landshare is a really nice idea. It may not be so important here in Lovingston, Virginia because we are not crowded.
But if anyone needs space for a garden, I can offer that plus water from 5 streams that converge on my property.
It would take some work to keep the wild animals away though.

[Ella]

This might not be the right thread for this, but I'll chance it seeing as there are a couple of posts about chickens. Has anyone had any experience of keeping rabbits in their garden for food? I'm thinking about doing it this year, seems like one of the easier ways to keep animals for a food source if you haven't got room for sheep, pigs etc.......
If this isn't the best thread for this I'll check out some others too.

Thanks peeps.

[Bo Atkinson]

If and when markets present unbearable problems, some remedies of shipwrecked survival might apply. This actually has appealed to me as an option to and an avoidance of the squared and linear life styles of recent centuries. I have explored nonlinear and curvilinear solutions for everything, even gardening. Since so many today live with cold winters or droughty landscapes the greenhouse may well offer important backup, in extending growth seasons and in adjusting micro climates.
http://harmoniouspalette.com/EyelidGreenhouse/TrickleDownSolar.jpg
http://harmoniouspalette.com/EyelidGreenhouse/EyelidGreenhouse.html

The concept of annualized solar would benefit greenhouses tremendously. I used to have more concerns that wet climates would wash away this annualized heat, underground. However, my very slow, experimental progress at leasts has already provided some frost freedom, even though my insulation is so unfinished. Given considerable ground water at my location.

Next is a much easier eyelid with just a fraction of the advantages:
http://harmoniouspalette.com/EyelidGreenhouse/EyelidDomeEasy/SchematicEyeLidEasy.jpg
http://harmoniouspalette.com/EyelidGreenhouse/EyelidDomeEasy/EasyEyeLidGreenhouse.html

[Dennis Leahy]

http://www.7thsensemultimedia.com/Imagez/PurpleMajesty_2136.jpg
Purple Majesty potatoes

There are about 4000 different varieties of potatoes. This is just one of them. If you think of "Russet" potatoes (white flesh, brown skin) when you think of potatoes, may I recommend that you expand your horizons.

Blindfolded, you would not be able to detect the potato varieties with colored flesh, but the colored flesh does contain more nutrients/phytonutrients.

Theses are beautiful as chunks in a soup, or mixed with other potatoes (such as the pink-red fleshed Mountain Rose, and the golden-yellow fleshed Yukon Gold), or with other root vegetables.

This is one of my new three favorite potatoes (the others named above.)

Dennis

[Dorok]

464746484649

Here's what I do in my suburban backyard. Definitely can grow more food than my wife & I can eat.

[Dennis Leahy]

How do we get more people excited about gardening?

http://pingmag.jp/images/article/verticalgarden03.jpg
("Adam, say hello to Eve.")

:~)

Dennis

[Nenuphar]

Cool pic, Dennis! I have never seen potatoes such a deep purple before. That is wild! *L*

I will be trying my hand at growing Yukon Gold potatoes this summer, though. Can't wait! :-)

[Creative Lorraine]

This thread is so cool I want to get a garden out this year
Found that Ace hardware has"Plastic 55 gallon drums with lids"
I want to place dirt into it cut out holes on sides and plant Leaf Lettuce
Chica chica plant remember those hahha
Youtube has a lot of gardening video's

[Arrowwind]

This might not be the right thread for this, but I'll chance it seeing as there are a couple of posts about chickens. Has anyone had any experience of keeping rabbits in their garden for food? I'm thinking about doing it this year, seems like one of the easier ways to keep animals for a food source if you haven't got room for sheep, pigs etc.......
If this isn't the best thread for this I'll check out some others too.

Thanks peeps.


My neighbors keep rabbits for meat. They are very economical and don't have as many problems as chickens can have and they reproduce... well, they reproduce like rabbits so it is always a growing population if managed right..

You can feed them store bought feed and supplement in the summer with wild herbs and clovers from gathered from your morning walk

Ive been thinking about it but the cuteness factor keeps getting in the way..

[sister]

Reminder:
Planting day today and tomorrow for above ground crops and flowers, as the moon's sign is 1st Taurus.
Also, good planting day next Monday for the same, moon in 2nd Cancer.
Happy planting!
:)

[Ella]

This might not be the right thread for this, but I'll chance it seeing as there are a couple of posts about chickens. Has anyone had any experience of keeping rabbits in their garden for food? I'm thinking about doing it this year, seems like one of the easier ways to keep animals for a food source if you haven't got room for sheep, pigs etc.......
If this isn't the best thread for this I'll check out some others too.

Thanks peeps.


My neighbors keep rabbits for meat. They are very economical and don't have as many problems as chickens can have and they reproduce... well, they reproduce like rabbits so it is always a growing population if managed right..

You can feed them store bought feed and supplement in the summer with wild herbs and clovers from gathered from your morning walk

Ive been thinking about it but the cuteness factor keeps getting in the way..


Thanks Arrowwind,
I think I have pretty much convinced myself to give this a go. The more I read about it, the more I think it sounds perfect for us. I know what you mean about the cute factor though, luckily my husband isn't as sentimental, so I'll leave the 'dirty' work up to him. It's our 2 yr old that might not like it too much, though I'm sure if we use the experience as a learning one for him he'll be fine. Kids should know where their food comes from right? ;) Last summer he loved eating the tomatoes and cucumbers straight from the plants in the garden, and it's kind of the same principle! Plus we'll know they are treated well, are healthy and have a good (but short) life!....

[Arrowwind]

Ella. just be sure to not allow any rabbits to turn into pets.

It might be a good time to get a dog or cat so he can direct that part of his being
onto a living thing that will be around which he can develop a relationship with.

[Cjay]

BIOCHAR


ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT ENVIRONMENTAL DISCOVERIES EVER

A way to create hyper-fertile organic soil very quickly, simply and cheaply.

The videos below should be compulsory viewing for gardeners, farmers and politicians.


Approximately 10% of the soil in the Amazon Basin is man-made.

This knowledge has potentially enormous implications for:

improving soil fertillity
improving fertilzer retention in soil
reducing the need for chemical fertilizers
improving soil biomass/ecosystems (micro and macro organisms)
improving soil aeration
improving soil drainage
reducing soil erosion
rehabilitating huge areas of degraded farmland
making barren land fertile
growing much healthier plants
reducing the need for pesticides
improving water quality (by reducing chemical fertilizer and pesticide usage and reducing their run-off as a result of natural carbon filtration)
reducing atmospheric CO2 (by sequestering carbon from plants in soil for thousands of years)
reducing emissions of other greenhouse gases from soil
growing a lot more food of much higher quality


EL DORADO RE-DISCOVERED - THE REAL GOLD IS BLACK SOIL (TERRA PRETA)

I first heard this story on National Geographic channel when I was in the Philippines in 2005. It recently came up in a conversation with my youngest sister, so I did a little digging (pun intended) and found some very useful info on the 'net.

El Dorado is the “mythical” civilisation in the Amazon Basin that was "discovered" by Conquistador Francisco de Orellana in 1542. He was ridiculed and labelled insane by many because, despite thousands of people searching for over 430 years, no one could find El Dorado, until 2002.

El Dorado is real and it covers an area about twice the size of the UK. The reason the thousands of people who searched for El Dorado could not find it is because diseases like influenza, common cold and small pox wiped out the entire population in less than a decade and it was 30 years after its "discovery" before the next fleet of European explorers returned to the region, by which time the jungle had grown so much that it concealed El Dorado. Also, most of the explorers were looking for metallic gold, so they didn’t have eyes to see all the evidence and they walked all over El Dorado for about 430 years without seeing it!

It’s a long story but the gist of it is that the ancients (thousands of years ago) figured out a way to create hyper-fertile soil from virtually barren clay - mixing "biochar" (charcoal made from burning wood in an oxygen-depleted furnace) and compost with the clay that covers most of the Amazon Basin. The man-made soil is known as Tera Preta (black earth). Roughly 10% of the soil in the Amazon Basin is man-made. The soil itself actually GROWS.

The knowledge is being applied (still experimentally but on a fairly large scale) in Australia and many other countries.

Map showing the extent of El Dorado

http://www.mnn.com/sites/default/files/user-39/el-dorado-map.jpg

For a quick introduction, read this site:
The Secret of El Dorado revealed
http://www.mnn.com/technology/research-innovations/blogs/the-secret-of-el-dorado-revealed
That web-page contains a link to another page that contains a BBC documentary video.

I have posted the link to the other page here, for your convenience:
http://ecopreservationsociety.wordpress.com/2009/01/13/the-secrects-of-el-dorado-and-the-magic-of-terra-pretado/

Here is the BBC documentary about the re-discovery of El Dorado and the implications of terra preta.

8993313723654914866

This next site includes a short documentary video about soil research and the modern application of the ancient El Dorado biochar knowledge: http://replantingtherainforests.org/site/index.php/Our-Methods/biochar-a-soil-augmentation.html

Here is the short documentary about modern soil scientists research on biochar.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzmpWR6JUZQ

A closer look at biochar. Notice it has lots of surfaces for fungi and bacteria to grow on and lots of internal spaces for storing moisture, nutrients and air - and, importantly, for carbon-filtering the water before it ends up in creeks and rivers.

7939

To turbo-charge plant growth in any soil type, in any climate, learn about and
COMBINE BIOCHAR AND PERMACULTURE (more on this in future posts).

[Cjay]

PERMACULTURE


TWO OUTSTANDING INSPIRING ENVIRONMENTAL REPAIR STORIES

Everyone who cares about our planet should learn how to do this.


Willie Smits - Regrowing rainforest in Borneo


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vfuCPFb8wk


Geoff Lawton - Permaculture - Greening the Desert


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gPvsl9ni-4


If you haven't already, please spend one hour reading the post above regarding BIOCHAR, including reading the links and watching the videos.

If we COMBINE PERMACULTURE AND BIOCHAR, we have an extremely powerful and relatively simple way to rapidly repair the land that feeds us and clean up our water - and the results could last for thousands of years, as shown by carbon-dating the man-made soil in El Dorado

[jorr lundstrom]

This might not be the right thread for this, but I'll chance it seeing as there are a couple of posts about chickens. Has anyone had any experience of keeping rabbits in their garden for food? I'm thinking about doing it this year, seems like one of the easier ways to keep animals for a food source if you haven't got room for sheep, pigs etc.......
If this isn't the best thread for this I'll check out some others too.

Thanks peeps.

Yeah, we have had a lot of rabbits.:whoo:

[Arrowwind]

I have posted the video link here, for your convenience:
http://ecopreservationsociety.wordpress.com/2009/01/13/the-secrects-of-el-dorado-and-the-magic-of-terra-pretado/

This next site includes a short documentary video about soil research and the modern application of the ancient El Dorado biochar knowledge: http://replantingtherainforests.org/site/index.php/Our-Methods/biochar-a-soil-augmentation.html


To turbo-charge plant growth in any soil type, in any climate, learn about and
COMBINE BIOCHAR AND PERMACULTURE (more on this in future posts).

Very interesting Cjay! I will be looking into this.

Please tell us if you have made this soil and how it has gone for you.

[Arrowwind]

Ya need to watch the video on this page.

http://biochar.be/

[Arrowwind]

and this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzmpWR6JUZQ&feature=player_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzmpWR6JUZQ&feature=player_embedded)

[Maria Stade]

Ya need to watch the video on this page.

http://biochar.be/

Cool thanks I will test this out !

Back to see more films !:shocked:

Sipping some Birch sap..... mmm thats good.... wohoooo :whoo:


http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy77/Vitabuffeln/bjrksav.jpg

:luv:

[Maria Stade]

Arrowwind
You can feed them store bought feed and supplement in the summer with wild herbs and clovers from gathered from your morning walk

Not so good idea !

Rabbit food contains antibiotics (sulfa in Swedish ) and you do not whant to eat that !
To much clower can kill ( gas production) them or make them unfertile or inpossible to mate much hormones !

Hay is important they have teath that grows all the time, and green food is fine but read how to do so you dont over do it they have a sencitive stomach !

[Maria Stade]

Love this thread !

Cjay thank you for charing this important information !:)

MAKING BIOCHAR: with Peter Hirst of New England Biochar

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXMUmby8PpU&feature=player_embedded#at=584

[Arrowwind]

Arrowwind
You can feed them store bought feed and supplement in the summer with wild herbs and clovers from gathered from your morning walk

Not so good idea !

Rabbit food contains antibiotics (sulfa in Swedish ) and you do not whant to eat that !
To much clower can kill ( gas production) them or make them unfertile or inpossible to mate much hormones !

Hay is important they have teath that grows all the time, and green food is fine but read how to do so you dont over do it they have a sencitive stomach !

There are different qualities of feed available at least in the USA. They can eat some clover...look at what a rabbit will eat in the wild.. and they do eat some clover. Balanced diet is the key. garden scraps can also be given... carrots, lettuce, beans, etc. One has to work with what is available. It is good to look for local wild plants to feed them in the summer and what might be dried for winter feed...I don't know everything about feeding rabbits... I watch what my neighbors do, and they raise a lot of rabbits.

[Cjay]

Love this thread !

Cjay thank you for charing this important information !:)

MAKING BIOCHAR: with Peter Hirst of New England Biochar

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXMUmby8PpU&feature=player_embedded#at=584

You're welcome :) Spread it around (the information and the biochar) ;)

Thank you Maria for that very informative video.

[Arrowwind]

I have read quite a bit of biochar information now and watched some videos..
It seems like a lot of work to make it..the Amazon people seem to have burned it in huge mounds covered with clay
but the videos say that this process was kind of toxic for the air to do.

The cost of fertilizing a pasture, even a small one like we have would be highly prohibative it seems.

Some where on one of the pages I read it said that even charcoal for grilling might be used with some positive effect
and this certainly is more cost effective for a garden than the biochar products I found but there was little detail on it.
If anyone comes across info regarding using regular grilling charcoal please post it. It would be less than half the price of biochar, especially considering that the biochar would have to be shipped to most of us.

I will really have to think about it before I build a burner... and I noticed that some of the people making it used hard wood and I certainly understand why but I don't have hard wood available so I wondered how it would do with pine which we have an abundance of.

The other thing I could not get clear on is how to apply it.. some people said it had to be mixed in the soil but then a woman with an avacado ranch in Australia seemed to just throw it on top of the ground..??

[Dennis Leahy]

I have always purchased "starts" (small plants) for tomatoes, peppers, and broccoli, but this year decided to try some from seeds. The tomatoes are a bust - one scrawny plant. The peppers are coming up healthy and should be good plants. The broccoli plants are spindly, and I hope I caught them in time, adding more lights above them, and I turned on a small fan on low to simulate wind (and hopefully strengthen the stems.) Lots of sweet basil coming along well too, and I will also plant some as seed directly in the garden. I have quite a few "seed" potatoes from last years crop, now growing shoots, and more of those purple-fleshed and red-fleshed potatoes ordered as seed potatoes.

It was really difficult to watch the snow coming down today, Apr. 26th. I'm so sick of snow! But, I will be meeting with other site coordinators, as a community gardening site coordinator, this weekend, so the show must go on!

Hope others in the northern hemisphere are either getting ready, or well into the gardening season!

Dennis

[TWINCANS]

We're late in realizing the importance of increased our self sufficiency, so right now our job is to repair the greenhouse. Also the idea of sprouting makes a lot of sense. I'm looking for a good local supplier of heritage seeds (not F1 Hybrids that are sterile and need to be repurchsed every crop) and organic sprouting seeds but no luck so far.

[Cjay]

Some where on one of the pages I read it said that even charcoal for grilling might be used with some positive effect
and this certainly is more cost effective for a garden than the biochar products I found but there was little detail on it.
If anyone comes across info regarding using regular grilling charcoal please post it. It would be less than half the price of biochar, especially considering that the biochar would have to be shipped to most of us.


Short answer - no, you would be wasting your time.

From my research, using cooking or heating charcoal in a garden would not be practical because most charcoal for cooking or heating has been compressed over millions of years so it lacks the microscopic hollow tubes from the veins in the plant stems that are one of the important characteristcs of biochar. These hollow tubes give biochar huge surface area on which beneficial soil micro-organisms grow. This porosity also plays an important role in soil aeration, moisture penetration and drainage, nutrient and moisture retention and ground-water filtration.

8004


The other thing I could not get clear on is how to apply it.. some people said it had to be mixed in the soil but then a woman with an avacado ranch in Australia seemed to just throw it on top of the ground..??

Mixing biochar with soil and compost is optimal - the results are dramatic and immediate - but it would not be practical to dig soil too deeply in an established orchard as you might damage the root system of mature trees. I think throwing biochar on the surface would have less benefit than mixing it with soil and compost before planting. Macro-organisms (worms, insects, etc) might eventually mix the biochar with the surface soil but this would take years. The avocado farm in that video is part of an experiment. It would be interesting to compare, over several years, the quantity and quality of avocados from trees where biochar was added and from trees where biochar was not added.

Personally, I don't think they were adding nearly enough biochar to make a big difference. In that video you referred to, they were talking about 10 tonnes per hectare or 1 kilogram per square metre. That would not translate to much soil depth if you consider a 1:1:1 mixture of soil:compost:biochar. Remember also, the deeper the soil, the bigger the root system. Bigger roots = bigger plants.

As an example, if you want to grow vegetables, mix one cubic metre of soil with one cubic metre of compost and one cubic metre of biochar. Spread out the mixture at a depth of 20 to 30 centimetres (8 to 12 inches). Plant the seeds and/or seedlings, then jump back! Before you know it, you will have more vegetables than your family can eat.

After you have mixed the soil, compost and biochar, the soil is so friable (soft and crumbly) that you can dig it with your fingers for many years - the soil resists compaction so roots can penetrate very easily. Your soil will soon be full of life such as fungii, bacteria, worms and insects. Let the worms and insects do the digging. Your neighbours and gardening friends will develop soil envy.

[Cjay]

I have posted the video link here, for your convenience:
http://ecopreservationsociety.wordpress.com/2009/01/13/the-secrects-of-el-dorado-and-the-magic-of-terra-pretado/

This next site includes a short documentary video about soil research and the modern application of the ancient El Dorado biochar knowledge: http://replantingtherainforests.org/site/index.php/Our-Methods/biochar-a-soil-augmentation.html


To turbo-charge plant growth in any soil type, in any climate, learn about and
COMBINE BIOCHAR AND PERMACULTURE (more on this in future posts).

Very interesting Cjay! I will be looking into this.

Please tell us if you have made this soil and how it has gone for you.

Successful permaculture experiment


February 2008
7099

April 2011
7098

[Eikoor21]

Wow pretty neat thread
You guys that have yards, land, and space are quite lucky
for me on the other hand not so much
i was considering some indoor growing but i dont even have that much space either
i wish i could dig a room underground and grow it there
lol

[Arrowwind]

Is there a place to purchase biochar?

Acres magazine has an artical about it either this month or last month

[nimmer]

I have posted the video link here, for your convenience:
http://ecopreservationsociety.wordpress.com/2009/01/13/the-secrects-of-el-dorado-and-the-magic-of-terra-pretado/

This next site includes a short documentary video about soil research and the modern application of the ancient El Dorado biochar knowledge: http://replantingtherainforests.org/site/index.php/Our-Methods/biochar-a-soil-augmentation.html


To turbo-charge plant growth in any soil type, in any climate, learn about and
COMBINE BIOCHAR AND PERMACULTURE (more on this in future posts).

Very interesting Cjay! I will be looking into this.

Please tell us if you have made this soil and how it has gone for you.

Successful permaculture experiment


February 2008
7099

April 2011
7098

That is amazing!!!

[CorLian]

Sipping some Birch sap..... mmm thats good.... wohoooo :whoo:


http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy77/Vitabuffeln/bjrksav.jpg

:luv:

How did you do this, and when do you do it? :confused: I would like to colect sap on some of our trees, but I always thought it was a long process filled with hours of hard work and intense labor. Have you tried it on maple trees?

I hope I got the quote right, I didnt do the thread were your suposed to practice... :unsure:

Thank You

[Gustav]

Hi,

I have lice on my sunflowers. How can I best remove them without damaging the plant? Or should I not remove them?

Gustav

[Cjay]

Hi,

I have lice on my sunflowers. How can I best remove them without damaging the plant? Or should I not remove them?

Gustav

Lice? Could they be aphids?

Perhaps you will find an answer here:
From the Sustainable Gardening Australia website
Garden pests, diseases, natural controls (and "old school" control methods)
http://www.sgaonline.org.au/?page_id=4320

Disclaimer: this is an Australian website and we do not have most of the garden pests that exist in other parts of the world - that's one great benefit of living on an island with strong quarantine laws and procedures.

Just my two cents worth - your best defense against garden pests is to plant as many different varieties as possible.

By the way, that website has some really useful information, including these pages (for example):

Companion planting: http://www.sgaonline.org.au/?p=583

Crop rotation: http://www.sgaonline.org.au/?p=586

Fact sheets: http://www.sgaonline.org.au/?page_id=896

...and lots more. Enjoy!

[blufire]

A few aphids won’t hurt and are part of a garden’s eco-system . . . . but if there are “a lot”, say a couple dozen on a plant then that’s a significant infestation.

I use diatomaceous earth quite a bit, both when I have a problem and as a precursor to potentially problems. It is organic and very effective against “sucking” and “chewing” bugs. Also for an organic solution with items you may have in your home use about a tablespoon of cooking oil (olive oil, canola etc) and about a teaspoon of some type of soap (biodegradable is best) and mix in a spray bottle (32 ounce) with water. Obviously you have to shake often while spraying on your plants. This will coat the bugs and dry them out.

Make sure you don’t breathe the DE or get in your eyes . . . it irritates soft tissue . . . which is why it works with insects!!! :p

I also use DE with my chickens. I mix a bit in their food which they ingest and it takes care of any worms they may have. Also, I place a pan of DE at the door where they go in and out of their house, when they step in it gets on their feet and undersides, which then takes care of fleas or mites.


Hi,

I have lice on my sunflowers. How can I best remove them without damaging the plant? Or should I not remove them?

Gustav

[Gustav]

Thanks both of you. I will try it tomorrow as it is now almost time to sleep. The plants are sunflowers of two different kinds. One of them can grow up to 4 meters (12.97 feet or 155.64 inch) tall, how cool is that. They are about 40 centimeters (1.29 feet or 15.54 inch) now. I also have a sequia that just spawned last year and is now up to 4 centimeters (0.12 feet or 1.55 inch). Amazing that it can grow to be a few 1000s years old. As a saying goes in the Netherlands: 'boompje groot, plantertje dood' I will not live to see it. It means, when the three is grown, the planter is dead.

=== Added ===

I looked aphids up on the internet. They are aphids indeed. I do not know if there are several different species, most likely yes, but I will make a picture tomorrow and post it.

[Arrowwind]

Hi,

I have lice on my sunflowers. How can I best remove them without damaging the plant? Or should I not remove them?

Gustav

One of the best defences against these types of bugs is getting some ladybugs.
Ladybugs will viligently watch over your crops.
you can purchase them on line.
Praying mantis are helpful too.

Sunflowers are great. Their root system will enhance your soil. when you take them down you can feed the heads to chickens if you want. you can burn the stalks on the garden site or compost them.. cu them and leave the roots in the soil and just plow them in after your burn.. or dont plow at all... I am working on developing a no till garden myself.

for new gardeners, or any gardener really, I highly recommend the magazine called "Acres"
I have learned so much from them.

[Arrowwind]

[QUOTE=Arrowwind;191811][After you have mixed the soil, compost and biochar, the soil is so friable (soft and crumbly) that you can dig it with your fingers for many years - the soil resists compaction so roots can penetrate very easily. Your soil will soon be full of life such as fungii, bacteria, worms and insects. Let the worms and insects do the digging. Your neighbours and gardening friends will develop soil envy.

Do you know anyone that is selling biochar? I haven't been able to find any.

[Cjay]

Thanks both of you. I will try it tomorrow as it is now almost time to sleep. The plants are sunflowers of two different kinds. One of them can grow up to 4 meters (12.97 feet or 155.64 inch) tall, how cool is that.

You're welcome, Gustav. I think it is very cool when things grow fast and tall. I can see enormous potential for using the woody parts we don't eat of plants such as sunflowers, corn and sugar cane - also cannabis (not the kind for recreational smoking, although that can be used too) - for producing mountains of biochar, very quickly, to dramatically improve the quality of soils. For those readers who missed or glossed over or did not grasp the significance of my original biochar post, I urge you to give it some time and serious thought.
Here is the biochar post: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?2050-Gardening-organics-sustainable-gardening-food-crops-etc&p=187057&viewfull=1#post187057

If anyone doesn't understand why I highlighted cannabis, I urge you to read this post for a quick overview: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?17640-Mother-Nature-as-our-Chemotherapy&p=190648&viewfull=1#post190648
...then, for much more detailed information, read this book:
The Emperor Wears No Clothes by Jack Herer
http://www.jackherer.com/thebook/


Join the dots, people.



A little P.S. Yesterday, a friend who appreciates gardening and amazing soil quality came to visit for lunch. After I dug some potatoes with my bare hands, I sensed a very strong vibe of soil-envy. I offered her a sack full of my compost to help with her tiny inner-suburban vegie garden. As I filled the sack, she became so excited, she almost cried. Three years ago, this land was extremely sticky, heavy red clay, with a very shallow dusting of poor quality topsoil. Now - and with minimal effort - the soil is truly amazing.

[Cjay]

Do you know anyone that is selling biochar? I haven't been able to find any.



I found this by searching Google for "biochar for sale" - The first link below currently lists two companies selling biochar - one in Australia and one in USA. I have previously found two other companies in Australia who sell in bulk for broadacre application. I won't list them here because Arrowwind is in USA. I'm sure there are growing numbers of other sources in many countries.

http://www.biochar.net/where-to-get-biochar/ (worth reading)

which eventually leads to: http://www.biocharsolutions.com/biochar/biocharsales.html (in USA)
The Biochar Solutions website has a lot of very interesting information. I encourage you to spend time reading this site - and you will find many useful / interesting external links. I am very impressed by their biochar factory on a trailer. Awesome!

http://www.biocharsolutions.com/images/technology/U3beta_644x425.jpg


"The beta units processed over 500 lbs of woody biomass per hour. These mobile units can be deployed at the source of the biomass—minimizing transport costs; avoiding carbon emissions from transportation; and in some cases, tipping fees. These units require only grid power or a genset, nominal propane for start-up, and a level pad to install." more... (http://www.biocharsolutions.com/technology/index.html)


This is a very big claim - "Biochar could remove and sequester over 3 billion tons per year of atmospheric carbon dioxide"
Source: http://www.biocharsolutions.com/solutions/Carbon%20Sequestration%20Potential%20of%20Biochar.pdf
- and that is in addition to all of the other benefits that I mentioned in my original post on biochar - here:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?2050-Gardening-organics-sustainable-gardening-food-crops-etc&p=187057&viewfull=1#post187057
I have previously read that the biochar found in soils in the Amazon region was carbon-dated as being up to 3,000 years old - so the benefits last a very long time.


I will preface this quotation with a disclaimer. I do not respect Tim Flannery's politically and financially biased doomsayer claims regarding global warming / climate change / carbon tax. However, I totally agree with his following statement: "Biochar may represent the single most important initiative for humanity's environmental future" - Professor Tim Flannery

Arrowwind (and any anyone else who tries this), I am very interested in your feedback regarding any biochar companies, their products, services, technology, pricing - but especially your personal results from adding biochar to your soil.

Biochar - a closer look. Notice it has lots of surfaces for fungi and bacteria to grow on and lots of internal spaces for storing moisture, nutrients and air - and, importantly, for filtering the water before it ends up in creeks and rivers.

7819

By the way... here is a great use for those left over plastic buckets - make free-range worm farms:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vG6_aGS96aE

Interesting idea but my two compost heaps are much bigger free-range worm farms that don't use any plastic and I don't have to dig a deep hole. My motto in the garden is (as much as possible) "let the worms do the digging". :cool:

[phillipbbg]

Hi,

I have lice on my sunflowers. How can I best remove them without damaging the plant? Or should I not remove them?

Gustav

A very simple way to reduce the infestation is to mix up a soapy solution and spray the plants (fine mist) over a hundred years ago they used horticultural soap (pure soap) as the main way to keep problems like this under control. We don't do it these days because it is not a magic bullet, you need to do it daily until you get them under control....

You can make up a solution using dish washing liquid but NEVER use green coloured soaps because they have disinfectants in them, just use a citrus smelling one... a cap full of liquid to 500ml is fine. There is another source you can try and that is your grey washing water sent down the drain when you wash your clothes ....

The main point of this form of treatment is not to kill the bugs but to make the plant into a terrible place to live without hurting the plant.....lol your neighbours will hate you when the bugs move house...

Have fun

[Cjay]

Hi,

I have lice on my sunflowers. How can I best remove them without damaging the plant? Or should I not remove them?

Gustav

A very simple way to reduce the infestation is to mix up a soapy solution and spray the plants (fine mist) over a hundred years ago they used horticultural soap (pure soap) as the main way to keep problems like this under control. We don't do it these days because it is not a magic bullet, you need to do it daily until you get them under control....

You can make up a solution using dish washing liquid but NEVER use green coloured soaps because they have disinfectants in them, just use a citrus smelling one... a cap full of liquid to 500ml is fine. There is another source you can try and that is your grey washing water sent down the drain when you wash your clothes ....

The main point of this form of treatment is not to kill the bugs but to make the plant into a terrible place to live without hurting the plant.....lol your neighbours will hate you when the bugs move house...

Have fun

Yes but the soap will most likely kill the bugs... and if I was a plant, I would want you to rinse the soap off my skin - ick!! - because plants need to breathe too and the soap residue can reduce block some sunlight from reaching the leaves. You can knock most of the aphids off with high pressure water (from a garden hose, not from a pressure cleaner because that will damage the plant). One of the sticky problems with aphids (pun intended) is that ants farm aphids and protect the aphids from predators such as ladybugs. Speaking of ladybugs, you can buy ladybugs and other predatory insects from some garden nurseries. My advice is ALWAYS look to nature for a solution before resorting to any non-natural substance.

[phillipbbg]

Hi,

I have lice on my sunflowers. How can I best remove them without damaging the plant? Or should I not remove them?

Gustav

A very simple way to reduce the infestation is to mix up a soapy solution and spray the plants (fine mist) over a hundred years ago they used horticultural soap (pure soap) as the main way to keep problems like this under control. We don't do it these days because it is not a magic bullet, you need to do it daily until you get them under control....

You can make up a solution using dish washing liquid but NEVER use green coloured soaps because they have disinfectants in them, just use a citrus smelling one... a cap full of liquid to 500ml is fine. There is another source you can try and that is your grey washing water sent down the drain when you wash your clothes ....

The main point of this form of treatment is not to kill the bugs but to make the plant into a terrible place to live without hurting the plant.....lol your neighbours will hate you when the bugs move house...

Have fun

Yes but the soap will most likely kill the bugs... and if I was a plant, I would want you to rinse the soap off my skin - ick!! - because plants need to breathe too and the soap residue can reduce block some sunlight from reaching the leaves. You can knock most of the aphids off with high pressure water (from a garden hose, not from a pressure cleaner because that will damage the plant). One of the sticky problems with aphids (pun intended) is that ants farm aphids and protect the aphids from predators such as ladybugs. Speaking of ladybugs, you can buy ladybugs and other predatory insects from some garden nurseries. My advice is ALWAYS look to nature for a solution before resorting to any non-natural substance.

First off you make up a very light soapy solution... not a bubble bath and secondly you are mimicking nature, plants create a coating on their leaves to defend themselves from the insects and fungal attacks, the problem is they can't do it in time when conditions favour the insects and there breeding cycle. In essence you are helping the plant defend itself by giving it more of its OWN ammunition.

I hope this clarifies my statement more clearly for you. By the way this is nothing new and pre-dates drug company infiltration into the horticultural industry. It has been adopted by many civilisations from past to present.

Grey water is often good because the body fats have diluted the soap solutions to such an extent that the plant can still photosynthesise at peak levels when coated with the solution... the science has been done, mainly so the drug companies can use the least amount of product to achieve the best result for the highest profit whilst still achieving there goals in reducing infestation, sterilisation, genetic manipulation etc.

[Gustav]

78227823

The two sunflowers and the sequoia. The sunflowers have to be put in the garden in the back, because they have clearly outgrown their current habitat ;). Esepecially the small one is littered with aphids. Up till now I have not seen any ants btw.

[Arrowwind]

Thanks cjay... I will look into it.

I thought I would mention at this time a product I am using called Nature Guard. Its a soil ammendment added to the soil around the time of planting. You can throw it on top or lightly rake it in or plow it in if you plow.

This product is amazing. I first came aware of it from a neighbor who reported to me that he plants corn on the same plot repeatedly year after year. I asked him what fertilizer he used for his nitrogen source and he said that he adds nothing chemical but just this nature guard. In his whole garden its the ONLY thing he uses, for garden veggies, lawn and trees. He has the most amazing garden

Well I was impressed that he could grow corn on the same patch year after year with no further ammendments. He does NOT compost or do anything else.

So I went and got a bag of this product... turns out this stuff is pure microbial innoculant. Microbes break down dirt to become available in a particularte size that roots can absorb. My first bag cost $23 and I thought a bit expensive for 20 # but since have found it for $15.

I tested its some on our corn patch that was fertilized with only composted cow maneur.. those areas that I applied this innoculant to grew much taller... I cant report on corn quality because rabbits came and munched them all down. I will try again this year if we get a fence up.

[phillipbbg]

78227823

The two sunflowers and the sequoia. The sunflowers have to be put in the garden in the back, because they have clearly outgrown their current habitat ;). Esepecially the small one is littered with aphids. Up till now I have not seen any ants btw.

The smaller sunflower is struggling with the soil as is evident by the yellowing of the leaves (the plant is trying to get rid of toxins which it has stored in the leaves before restricting its own nutrients ) they definitely need to be in the ground or in new soil with larger pot. Could I suggest you put a thick layer of newspaper over the soil when you move them, then a layer of mulch on top of the paper. It will keep the moisture higher in the top soil also will break down feeding the plants over time. The soil looks to be draining so well that the roots are being exposed. Just an observation.

I would also tend to feed them with a seaweed based food or a tomato plant food. The sequoia being a cypress family will respond well to leaf mulch and broken down animal based food (rose food, blood and bone, chicken manure etc but only small amounts so as not to burn the plant)

Good luck and they do really need to be in the ground if possible.....

[Cjay]

Arrowwind, the Natureguard soil innoculant sounds great. If you had biochar in your soil, the fungi and microbes in the innoculant (and those previously in the soil) could all move in together and set up home in the biochar.

With soil innoculant, some added organic material and legumes, it would be possible to build viable soil using beach or desert sand. I would not rely solely on soil innoculants because many soils are deficient in important minerals and trace elements. This is where seaweed+fish solution can help. Afterall, the sea contains a bit of everything.

I have never had my soil tested but I am very interested to do this. Getting a soil test done by professionals is a good idea because then you will know exactly what is in the soil and what is missing, so you know what you need to add.

Good compost can't be recommended too highly. It is a good idea to mix as many different plant varieties as possible in the compost heap. There are some very good commercially produced compost products and some of them have been made with the addition of soil innoculants.

As I write this, it occurs to me that the composted mulch I added to my garden, on top of the soil, immediately after planting the perennials (mostly ornamentals and some fruit trees) is made from recycled garden waste, collected from tens of thousands of gardens with a wide range of soil types - a bit of everything. I added a lot of it - 10 to 15 cm deep (4 to 6 inches) - and the garden went from zero to WOW in a few months. As the compost breaks down, the worms, insects and birds mix it into the soil.

I don't claim to be an expert - I am not. I have just had some good advice, read some good information and watched some good videos. Above all, I have had some good luck. Most of my gardening experiences have been successful experiments. I have also had some spectacular failures... but making mistakes can be good learning experiences.

Notwithstanding your neighbour's luck - so far - with growing corn in the same plot, year after year; I offer these comments. Generally, our best defenses against pests and diseases are crop rotation because growing the same species of plant in the same soil for many years is inviting an accumulation of pests and diseases in the soil (he might have ten or even more good years but eventually things will go badly); and maximising the number of plant species in the garden because this confuses pests due to all the different colours and scents in the garden and because it minimises your losses if you suffer a major attack on one or a few plant species. Again, look to nature as our best teacher. Single species systems are virtually non-existent in nature.


Gustav, even if you grow plants under carefully-controlled laboratory conditions, some plants grow well and some plants will be stunted. This can happen even with clones, which have identical DNA. Generally, weak plants are more susceptible to pests and diseases. It is great to know simple NATURAL ways to deal with pests and diseases but even armed with a lot of knowledge and experience, sometimes it's better to remove stunted plants and replace them.

[Arrowwind]

I communicated with the biochar company in Colorado today and they failed to give me the prices I requested but this they did say:

Hi Arrow,


Biochar rates are not always the same ---- Biochar is a solid porous carbon that will hold moisture and nutrients while providing a physical space for bacteria and fungi to propagate from.


I usually recommend blending biochar with a compost or other nutrient product. Personally I add about 15% biochar by volume to composting manure (horse and chicken) ---- I let that row compost for one season and then I put that blended product to work.


You can also simply add char to raised beds and till it in.


I do not recommend simply tossing biochar on top because it will blow away. I do recommend adding biochar to a compost product and then putting both the char and the compost onto pasture with a manure spreader or even just a wheelbarrow and a pitchfork.


1 cubic yard (27ft^3) of biochar (about 200lbs) can cover 20ft x 20ft of area in char 1 inch deep - I do not apply biochar in this fashion I would blend that char and use it for about 4 times that stated area. A standard wheelbarrow is 6ft^3 (1/4.5 of a yard) and is about the right volume to amend a typical 50ft by 2 ft vegetable row.


Regards
Jonah Levine

Yes, I agree with you Cjay.... my friends garden looks very good but over time I would have to assume that his veggies we be depeted in some nutrients... although they do look good so far, so do the veggies in the supermarket. I wonder what their brix levels would be in comparison to a well mulched garden.

I use another soil ammendment that I have been very impressed with called paramagnetic minerals which comes from a mine located near Yellowstone. A number of tests have been done with this product that are very impressive, including one where the minerals were put into a plastic film cannester and plased in the soil next to the seeds. The ones with the paramagnet minerials close by but not in contact with the plant did significantly better that the controls.. interesting eh?
http://www.aethericenergy.org/paramagnetic.htm This is where I purchased it. Seems they might be open again as the links for purchase are up again..... we did our own little experiment with this rock dust... last year my neighbor had an abundance of suffering houseplants. We revivied them all to full brilliance in just a week and a half by adding this stuff to the top of the soil and watering it in. It was amazing... plants got better that had been long suffering regardless of other intervention.

Unfortunately that mine is shut down for the time being...its product holds the highest goss on the market, at least that I could find. When I could get no more I purchased the next best called....... The goss is about half of Paramagetic... but it also contains trace minerals.

note: seems Paradise valley is open again. I don't need any right now so dont know for sure if an order will go through

I am trying to get away from the concept and process of the huge compost pile. I certainly don't like turning them. So I am working with the concept of the Lasagna garden or also called Layered garden. My garden was excellent last year and I found only one measley cabbage worm in the whole lot as far as pests go. I am now building a much larger lasagna garden, not in a raised bed, simply layered on the ground.

I also have a very unique system of composting that I think I will start another thread about on this forum.

Yes, I am going to be looking at fish emulsion products today in fact. We have a small pasture to fertilize. Since we irrigate it with 4 inch pipe and pump off a small pond I was thinking that the fish emulsion could be added directly to the pond water and let our irrigation system do all the work...got to call those guys today.

Did I tell you about Acres magazine? they had a nice article about biochar in it a month or two ago. I highly recommend this magazine. They also had an intersting article about fertilizing pasture with Raw Milk. About 1 gallon of milk per acre. They specify that it must be raw. So if raw milk can innoculate a field I would only assume that it could a garden also.

[Cjay]

Dear Arrowwind,

The reply from the biochar company sounds fairly sensible.

I have not heard of paramagnetic minerals. It sounds interesting, though. However, I would prefer to keep it simple and use methods that can be replicated in almost any location, without relying on unusual or expensive soil additives.




I am trying to get away from the concept and process of the huge compost pile. I certainly don't like turning them. So I am working with the concept of the Lasagna garden or also called Layered garden. My garden was excellent last year and I found only one measley cabbage worm in the whole lot as far as pests go. I am now building a much larger lasagna garden, not in a raised bed, simply layered on the ground.



There's a lot to be said for low-effort gardening, as is recommended by the permaculture experts.

I highly recommend all of the videos on YouTube by or about each of the following people:

Bill Mollison (co-originator of the Permaculture concept)
David Holmgren (co-originator of the Permaculture concept)
Geoff Lawton (Greening The Desert and many other videos)
Peter Andrews
Willie Smits

...just to name a few.


I have a small chipping machine that I use to chop up all of my garden waste, including branches up to about 35mm (1.5 inches) in diameter, before I add it to my compost heap. I add dried lawn clippings as well as food scraps and have just started adding shredded newspaper - afterall, most of that has high BS content. ;)

Personally, I am not a fan of spreading sheets of cardboard or layers of newspaper becuase soil needs to breathe. If you use around 10 cm (4 inches) of mulch, you will suppress the weeds just as effectively. Generally, the more coarse the mulch, the thicker you can apply it and the air and rain can still get to the soil.

I rarely turn my compost heap because the birds worms and insects help do that for me. Also, if you use a broom or rake handle to poke holes in the compost heap, air can get in - therefore, you don't need to turn the heap as often. I usually only turn my heaps two or three times per year - usually when I chop up a new batch of garden waste. It only takes me about 10 minutes to turn each heap.

Each time I turn the compost heap, I move it a very short distance (1 to 2 metres or yards). This way, I can use the super-rich worm castings from the bottom of the compost heap to spread where I need them, then plant some seeds in the super-fertile soil where the compost heap used to be. I get maximum benefits for minimum effort. By the way, my compost heaps never smell bad - in fact, they smell very pleasant.



Yes, I am going to be looking at fish emulsion products today in fact. We have a small pasture to fertilize. Since we irrigate it with 4 inch pipe and pump off a small pond I was thinking that the fish emulsion could be added directly to the pond water and let our irrigation system do all the work...got to call those guys today.



Eeeeeek! Adding fertilizer directly to your pond sounds like a VERY BAD idea. You will end up with a toxic pond, possibly with severe algal blooms.

It is not a big deal or big expense to buy or hire a spraying rig - of a size that is appropriate for your land size - to spread any liquid fertilizer. In India, they mix it in buckets and splash it over the land by hand, using a motion somewhat like broadcasting seed by hand. I suggest you water-in any fertilizer or apply it shortly before a reasonable amount of rain is expected.



Did I tell you about Acres magazine? they had a nice article about biochar in it a month or two ago. I highly recommend this magazine. They also had an intersting article about fertilizing pasture with Raw Milk. About 1 gallon of milk per acre. They specify that it must be raw. So if raw milk can innoculate a field I would only assume that it could a garden also.

No, I have not heard of that magazine. I no longer buy magazines. The Internet has more than enough information for me.

[Arrowwind]

Eeeeeek! Adding fertilizer directly to your pond sounds like a VERY BAD idea. You will end up with a toxic pond, possibly with severe algal blooms.

It is not a big deal or big expense to buy or hire a spraying rig - of a size that is appropriate for your land size - to spread any liquid fertilizer. In India, they mix it in buckets and splash it over the land by hand, using a motion somewhat like broadcasting seed by hand. I suggest you water-in any fertilizer or apply it shortly before a reasonable amount of rain is expected.




We have looked at spraying rigs $550 for a small one.... and another tool that requires care and repair...plus a battery.
the thing with our pond is that we have full water exchange in it at least twice a week and when the new pasture comes into play at least 4 times a week. Ill see what the sellers of these products recommend... you could be right, it might be a bad idea. It is not a pond for water lilies.. but to service the pastures. It receives via ditch, water from the mountain snow pack that feeds a resevoir about 5 miles away.

I have also herd of an injector system that you place on your mainline.. it will inject the fertilizer into the mainline to be distributed during routine watering.. this at least will save time and work... but I have not found a unit yet.

We have started out with very damaged soil on our property... I also felt compelled to make a usable soil as quickly as possible considering the economic issues that may (or may not) be coming our way in the US, at least for the garden. As time goes by sustainability is certainly what I am looking for. This will likely not be fully activated until we bring animals onto the land, possibly next year. There is very little natural stuff around to compost... I really have to scavenge diligently across the town and mountains. We are in a very arid desert like environment on an old piece of farm land that has been significantly been damaged. I feel that with time things will even out... animals will help quite a bit.

[Arrowwind]

Personally, I am not a fan of spreading sheets of cardboard or layers of newspaper becuase soil needs to breathe. If you use around 10 cm (4 inches) of mulch, you will suppress the weeds just as effectively. Generally, the more coarse the mulch, the thicker you can apply it and the air and rain can still get to the soil.



I used the carboard under my lasagna beds... we have had some wicked Johnson grass issues and little stops that stuff.. It did seem to get rid of it. I will not repeat it this year but only on my new bed. Cardboard will drain water.. by the end of the season last year I went looking to see what happened to the cardboard I had placed. It was by then mostly composted and in tiny shreds.

[Lifebringer]

Flat living can be a bummer, but hydroponic might help, still you have to have the pollination, but butterflies or captured water during the spring and summer allegy seasons, can aid in the pollination for winter crops. At least that is what I'm told. I've tried it this year and so far, so good. all that green stuff on your car, works wonders when mixed with water and kept warm during the winter months.

Now this electric bill stuff gets to you, then like me, you want to certify yourself with all the green technology and ideas you can saturate your mind in. It will all come in handy and I've already figured out my 1st million dollar "needed" business, that will save lives in storm torn rural areas. Soon as the certification is done, have a millionaire, interested in funding the business.

That and a few other eggs in the baskets, should open a world of opportunity for green clean living. Try the solar bookbags or two or three, they work great on pc, phones. Might do well with electric blankets.

[Cjay]

Eeeeeek! Adding fertilizer directly to your pond sounds like a VERY BAD idea. You will end up with a toxic pond, possibly with severe algal blooms.

It is not a big deal or big expense to buy or hire a spraying rig - of a size that is appropriate for your land size - to spread any liquid fertilizer. In India, they mix it in buckets and splash it over the land by hand, using a motion somewhat like broadcasting seed by hand. I suggest you water-in any fertilizer or apply it shortly before a reasonable amount of rain is expected.




I have also herd of an injector system that you place on your mainline.. it will inject the fertilizer into the mainline to be distributed during routine watering.. this at least will save time and work... but I have not found a unit yet.



That sounds like a much better idea! Another option is to use plastic containers (containing liquid fertilizer) with a standard garden hose connection on top. They use the venturi effect to suck the liquid fertilizer out of the plastic container and it mixes with water only as you use it. One example (and a great product) can be seen here: http://www.seasol.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=40&Itemid=63
You can fertilize a medium sized area fairly quickly but I acknowledge this method is not practical for large acreage.

[nomadguy]

I updated the Food Foresting post I started recently - http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?21565-Food-Foresting&p=234604#post234604

[Vividity]

If your base soil is clay, like mine (I live near Seattle), then you probably have raised beds, pots and planters galore. I built 4' wide x 14' long x 2' high planters using recycled wood for the blueberries. To maximize space I grow strawberries there too... they seem to love the blueberry soil mixture, plus, with the 2' high wall slugs are no longer a problem ~ sweet.

What I've grown so far that truly thrive in the Pacific Northwest climate (without use of a greenhouse): apples (Spartan & Braeburn), cherries (Rainier & Bing), blueberries (I have a mix of early-mid-late), strawberries, raspberries, lettuces, spinach, bok choy, cabbage, zucchini, onions, beets, tomatoes, snow peas, green beans, carrots, potatoes, broccoli, asparagus, cilantro, and garlic.

[Cjay]

If your base soil is clay, like mine (I live near Seattle), then you probably have raised beds, pots and planters galore.

No, absolutely not. My base soil is very sticky red clay and I do not have any raised garden beds. Everything is at ground level, except for a few ornamental plants in pots.

I sprinkled some gypsum directly on the clay - to break up the clay. I cheated a little bit - I added about one inch of sandy soil - and I added literally tons of organic matter. Less than four years later, now that it has all broken down and been mixed by the worms, insects and birds, my soil is the stuff every gardener wishes for. I can dig it effortlessly with my bare hands. The growth is astonishing. Did you see the sample pictures here?
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?2050-Gardening-organics-sustainable-gardening-food-crops-etc&p=205790&viewfull=1#post205790

Permaculture is all about creating exceptionally fertile soil with minimal effort.

If you read my first biochar post http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?2050-Gardening-organics-sustainable-gardening-food-crops-etc&p=187057&viewfull=1#post187057
(which, incidentally, was updated yesterday), you would know that the hyper-fertile "terra preta" (black soils) that make up about 10% of all soil in the Amazon Basin, was man-made thousands of years ago by mixing clay+biochar+compost.

[DianeKJ]

Can anyone suggest a gentle way to keep snails and earwigs from eating all my basil? They tend to make short work of it. I don't mind sharing some of it with them, but I would also like to enjoy some myself :)
Thanks,
Di

[slvrfx]

Beer, I've heard. Place a bowl of beer close by. Of course, the slugs will fall in and drown, but at least it's a happy parting.

[Wings]

Can anyone suggest a gentle way to keep snails and earwigs from eating all my basil? They tend to make short work of it. I don't mind sharing some of it with them, but I would also like to enjoy some myself :)
Thanks,
Di

Copper strips around the plants should help. Garlic spray is another alternative. You could try something like cayenne pepper or chilli powder as a barrier around your plants (I have never used this technique but I'd imagine it would work). .... and beer (as suggested above) does work.

[nomadguy]

there is this organic stuff I use called "sluggo", seems to help,
also if you can find where they are hiding treat the area with soap and water, they typically hide in the shade. IE decks and the edge of a house wall etc. Had a problem with these once as they were coming in from a neighbors yard, so figure out some barrier plants. inbetween their access is also a good tactic. Or another way to go is to use raised beds for things like basil.

[Cjay]

Can anyone suggest a gentle way to keep snails and earwigs from eating all my basil? They tend to make short work of it. I don't mind sharing some of it with them, but I would also like to enjoy some myself :)
Thanks,
Di

Copper strips around the plants should help. Garlic spray is another alternative. You could try something like cayenne pepper or chilli powder as a barrier around your plants (I have never used this technique but I'd imagine it would work). .... and beer (as suggested above) does work.

A ring of sawdust around plants is a good deterrent for snails and slugs.

- EDIT -

Great advice on snails here: http://www.sgaonline.org.au/?p=122

http://www.sgaonline.org.au/images/pests/larvaelife/sn4.jpg

Great advice on earwigs here: http://www.sgaonline.org.au/?p=146

Index to lots more pests and solutions: http://www.sgaonline.org.au/?page_id=4320

If any of the links get broken, go to Sustainable Gardening Australia:
http://www.sgaonline.org.au
then click the Gardening Fact Sheets link on the left.

[DianeKJ]

Thanks for all the advice on earwigs and slugs. I'm partial to the beer method :) I like the idea of sending them off in delicious, drunken splendor. I hope they like it too.

Has anyone here had any luck growing quinoa? I love the stuff but wasn't sure if it was a very viable thing to actually grow. I don't live on a farm either, but would like to give it a try.

[Cjay]

Has anyone here had any luck growing quinoa? I love the stuff but wasn't sure if it was a very viable thing to actually grow. I don't live on a farm either, but would like to give it a try.


I have never tried but I did a search on "growing quinoa at home" and I found this...


Q. Anyone tried growing quinoa? Is it worth it for the home gardener? Difficult to grow? It's expensive and hard to find at grocery stores around here! I would love to grow enough for occasional vegetarian dishes. It has such a striking appearance, too...

A. I grew it in the past just as an ornamental, and I grew about 100 plants this year for grain. It's very easy to grow (it's just a pigweed/goosefoot, after all).

The only thing about it is that, sort of as with dry beans, etc., it's really a lot of work for the yield you get, and very time consuming.

Mine is stripped off of the stems now, but not cleaned. I have a couple of garbage bags of stripped-off seed heads with a lot of chaff and debris. I need to sit there and rub it between my hands, or find some faster method, to extract the seed, then I'll have to clean it further by sieving and winnowing, etc. I'm not really sure how much actually purified grain I'll get from this.

I think the most practical home-grown grain is probably flour/dent corn, in terms of the yield for the effort it takes to grow and process it.

My advice is... it's a plant. How hard could it be? Plants grow themselves. Me thinks, that answer above came from a lazy gardener who wants everything to be as easy as growing corn. That's fine if you want to eat corn 350 days each year.

Then I found this far more helpful website: http://www.quinoatips.com/grow-your-own-quinoa-part-1/
http://www.quinoatips.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/cropped-quinoatipsheader.jpg

[DianeKJ]

Thank you so much, yes it will either grow somewhere in my backyard or it wont, lol. It has some good protien in it and if it grows, it would totally be worth any extra time I would need to give it. Processing/cleaning, well that might be a pain in the arse, but certainly something to learn about.

I know the stuff we by in the store has not only been cleaned, but rinsed pretty good as well. Not sure how much water it would take to clean it. I have read that the water used to remove the bitter coating, can then be used to wash things later. kind of interesting.

[Cjay]

You could probably wash your quinoa in a plastic tub or even a bath tub, then use it to water your garden or add that water to your compost... which leads to my next exciting instalment...

COMPOST TEA

Compost tea is a living gold for plants and gardens because it contains beneficial micro-organisms that:

help protect plants from pests
"digest" nutrients in the soil to convert them into a form that plants can absorb through their roots, so you will need much less fertilizer
some types of bacteria "fix" nitrogen from the atmostphere into the soil when used with legumes (plants like peas, beans and acacia trees or shrubs)

thus dramatically improving soil quality very quickly so you can grow very healthy, vigorous plants that give you extraordinary yields.

It is extremely easy to make compost tea at home in just 24 hours.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXGqJbFZzCo


...or if you have a farm, you can make larger amounts in a bigger system like this one:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geFf4USPKSA


You can build your own votex compost tea brewer that uses an air pump, not a water pump, to move the water.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWS20uo0UVI



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=It2dgq1s22g



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSYlqTuteHM



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNNPxf7mL0k



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDDAl8NeoHY

[Arrowwind]

Compost tea is a living gold for plants and gardens because it contains beneficial micro-organisms that:

help protect plants from pests
"digest" nutrients in the soil to convert them into a form that plants can absorb through their roots, so you will need much less fertilizer
some types of bacteria "fix" nitrogen from the atmostphere into the soil when used with legumes (plants like peas, beans and acacia trees or shrubs)

thus dramatically improving soil quality very quickly so you can grow very healthy, vigorous plants that give you extraordinary yields.

It is extremely easy to make compost tea at home in just 24 hours.
]

Please explain why it is worth the work to make compost tea as opposed to just putting compost on your garden? I need less work, no more... but will do what is of value.

[Cjay]

Final video in the series about home-made vortex compost tea brewer.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vicfxM6O27o



Testimonials regarding compost tea:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doZKvLzcoAc




Compost tea is a living gold for plants and gardens because it contains beneficial micro-organisms that:

help protect plants from pests
"digest" nutrients in the soil to convert them into a form that plants can absorb through their roots, so you will need much less fertilizer
some types of bacteria "fix" nitrogen from the atmostphere into the soil when used with legumes (plants like peas, beans and acacia trees or shrubs)

thus dramatically improving soil quality very quickly so you can grow very healthy, vigorous plants that give you extraordinary yields.

It is extremely easy to make compost tea at home in just 24 hours.
]

Please explain why it is worth the work to make compost tea as opposed to just putting compost on your garden? I need less work, no more... but will do what is of value.


Sorry if my previous explanation wasn't clear or detailed enough. It is mostly about having good soil biology - LIVING soil as opposed to dead soil. By adding billions of good bacteria and fungi to the soil, you will super-charge the growth of all plants growing in that soil.

People who understand soil often say that you do not feed your plants. You feed the soil and the soil feeds your plants.

Compost tea:

feeds the plants through the leaves
coats the leaves with BENEFICIAL bacteria that repels pests
inoculates the soil with beneficial bacteria
the bacteria in the soil break down fertilizer that you add to the soil, and the bacteria breaks down the minerals in the soil and converts them into a form that plants can absorb through their roots. If you don't have these bacteria in your soil, your plants might survive but they will never thrive.


As the gentleman said in the first compost tea video - The Secret is in the Soil - about 4 minutes into the video - "it (the compost tea) is the equivalent of about 500 to 1000 pounds of compost". What he means is, the number of beneficial bacteria that have multiplied in the tea in just 24 hours of brewing, starting with just 8 cups of compost.

You should use the compost tea as soon as possible after making it because it is full of living bacteria.

The effort required to make compost tea is minimal - it takes about 5 minutes, once a week (or less often if you like), to prepare a batch of compost tea. The results are truly amazing.


If you want to get good results (but slightly less stunning results) with less work, learn from the people who developed the concept of Permaculture - Bill Mollison and David Holmgren. Here is a Bill Mollison video to whet your appetite (total running time 51:42).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5iHc3oTgao


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_LUpWflNtk


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXRnZTUPy9g


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=di1qcGdHhCE


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ-PmiXanSI


If you add BIOCHAR to your soil, that greatly improves the soil - producing up to 890% as much harvest as the same soil with no biochar.

If you use PERMACULTURE techniques, you can achieve amazing results, even if you don't add biochar to your soil.

If you add COMPOST, you can achieve amazing results, even if you don't use permaculture techniques or add biochar to your soil.

Using COMPOST TEA, will give you the fastest improvement to your soil biology.

If you combine ALL FOUR of the above, you will achieve truly outstanding results because it is like intensive care for your plants. You could literally turn a barren desert into a lush paradise within a few years.

[Cjay]

PERMACULTURE ETHICS AND DESIGN PRINCIPLES

I strongly recommend that every gardener and farmer studies this information closely.


David Holmgren is co-originator (with Bill Mollison) of the permaculture concept and author of the recent book, PERMACULTURE: Principles and Pathways Beyond Sustainability.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_-J71k2bXE


Much more information: http://permacultureprinciples.com/

http://permacultureprinciples.com/images/principles_menu.gif

[oceanz]

Cjay - I must've watched that same documentary on biochar in the Amazon. After watching that, I tried a small experiment years ago of mixing charcoal and soil and then later on planted some flowers. The flowers planted in the soil without the charcoal were not as healthy and did not last very long.

I must look into doing this again.

On another thing, I have heard ash is very good for citric plants.

Maybe, like Carbon in charcoal (biochar), the ash which contains rock & glass (silica) is something that all insects, plants and humans need to stand upright and maintain a healthy exterior.

[Cjay]

Cjay - I must've watched that same documentary on biochar in the Amazon. After watching that, I tried a small experiment years ago of mixing charcoal and soil and then later on planted some flowers. The flowers planted in the soil without the charcoal were not as healthy and did not last very long.

I must look into doing this again.

On another thing, I have heard ash is very good for citric plants.

Maybe, like Carbon in charcoal (biochar), the ash which contains rock & glass (silica) is something that all insects, plants and humans need to stand upright and maintain a healthy exterior.


Plant ash contains potassium, the K in "NPK" fertilizers - one of the three essential nutrients for plants. My personal opinion is that all the trace elements are essential for healthy plants - and animals, including humans.

[Arrowwind]

Sorry if my previous explanation wasn't clear or detailed enough. It is mostly about having good soil biology - LIVING soil as opposed to dead soil. By adding billions of good bacteria and fungi to the soil, you will super-charge the growth of all plants growing in that soil.

People who understand soil often say that you do not feed your plants. You feed the soil and the soil feeds your plants.

Compost tea:
[LIST]
As the gentleman said in the first compost tea video - The Secret is in the Soil - about 4 minutes into the video - "it (the compost tea) is the equivalent of about 500 to 1000 pounds of compost". What he means is, the number of beneficial bacteria that have multiplied in the tea in just 24 hours of brewing, starting with just 8 cups of compost.

You should use the compost tea as soon as possible after making it because it is full of living bacteria.

The effort required to make compost tea is minimal - it takes about 5 minutes, once a week (or less often if you like), to prepare a batch of compost tea. The results are truly amazing.


.

Sorry cjay, I just didn't have time to watch all those videos... you work hard on your post and I do appreciate that... but Im to busy doing the garden to read about it... growing season is so short here.. and weather so iffy that when a good day comes I have to be outside....

I do want to watch that vortex thing... reminds me of photonic water... eventually I will be doing all my garden watering with photonic water.... www.photonicwater.com (http://www.photonicwater.com)

[Cjay]

Sorry cjay, I just didn't have time to watch all those videos... you work hard on your post and I do appreciate that... but Im to busy doing the garden to read about it... growing season is so short here.. and weather so iffy that when a good day comes I have to be outside....

I do want to watch that vortex thing... reminds me of photonic water... eventually I will be doing all my garden watering with photonic water.... www.photonicwater.com (http://www.photonicwater.com)

Dear Arrowwind and all gardeners and farmers,

I understand about your short growing season. I totally understand about being busy. Most of us THINK we don't have time to pause and learn better ways to do things.

Try to invest just one hour per day for the next seven days to study again each of my posts in this thread AND watch the videos I have posted.

The things you learn will save you a lot of time and money. You will get back every minute you invest hundreds of times over and your garden or farm yields will be dramatically improved in quality and quantity, very easily and very cheaply by working smarter, not harder.

[Cjay]

HARVESTING RAIN WATER

Harvesting Water the Permaculture Way (total running time 63:58) is a great documentary about harvesting rain water using simple permaculture techniques - by Geoff Lawton, one of the world's foremost permaculture experts.

Geoff is wll known for the video series "Greening the Desert" where he teaches Jordanian locals how to grow a highly productive food forest in one of the world's harshest deserts close to the Dead Sea. Watch the full version of Greening the Desert here:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?2050-Gardening-organics-sustainable-gardening-food-crops-etc&p=187963&viewfull=1#post187963

Geoff is managing director of The Permaculture Research Institute of Australia.
http://permaculture.org.au/

Geoff and his team are establishing a worldwide network of Permaculture Research Institutes.
http://www.permacultureglobal.com/




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kICfi7i-rOA


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NPdunTcksA


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmoNtoIF4G4


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6U1B2AcfJU


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jv4yIvl8Vc


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUcvjsAYZ0w

[Cjay]

GEOFF LAWTON'S GUIDE TO PERMACULTURE DESIGN AND STRATEGY

(Total running time 34:47)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMQ8eSm92xQ


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHIYXmGgiuw


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGK1iymrYq4


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9bTKEOJ0v4


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-uKzGaUmzg

[Cjay]

PERMACULTURE & PEAK OIL: Beyond 'Sustainability'

David Holmgren is co-originator (with Bill Mollison) of the permaculture concept and author of the recent book, PERMACULTURE: Principles and Pathways Beyond Sustainability.

He talks about the need to move beyond the lulling hope that 'green tech' breakthroughs will allow world-wide 'sustainable consumption' to the recognition that dwindling oil supplies inevitably mean a mandatory 'energy descent' for human civilization across the planet. He argues that permaculture principles provide the best guide to a peaceful societal 'powering down."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFjFG24BeX8

[Cjay]

BILL MOLLISON - GLOBAL GARDENER - Permaculture Series


Bill Mollison, co-originator (with David Holmgren) of the Permaculture concept, shows Permaculture principles being applied in different situations and climate zones.

more information: The Permaculture Research Institute of Australia: http://permaculture.org.au/
and the worldwide network of Permaculture Research Institutes: http://www.permacultureglobal.com/


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxJDCy9BjFQ


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LE5KGJlqUSI


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8NT1smJoWY


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxMIVdPNP1w

[nomadguy]

This is a well-becoming post, This is all great material that has taught me so so much about my craft in building ecosystems.
I am making ample attempts to get more traffic to this post as well.

Cheers
C... Keep it up yall!

[Cjay]

SOIL BIOLOGY


One teaspoon of soil could contain billions of bacteria and viruses. One study found 4,600 different varieties of bacteria in one soil sample. Some of these are known to be very beneficial; some are known to be very dangerous. They all have a role to play in the complex web of life and nature has ways of maintaing balance in ecosystems. Sometimes when humans disturb the natural balance, things can go horribly wrong.


Words of caution about dangerous bacteria in soil.

I don't want to make people paranoid but we need to be aware of potential hazards in everything we do, so we can take precautions. Some bacteria and viruses are extremely hazardous - they can cause serious illness or death if they enter your body through broken skin, by inhalation or ingestion from eating contaminated food or eating with dirty hands.

Basic precautions include:

wearing gloves when gardening
wearing a surgical mask when handling compost to avoid inhaling harmful micro-organisms or spores
washing hands thoroughly with soap before preparing food or eating
washing raw food with clean water before eating or cooking
having a first-aid kit and MMS (http://jimhumble.biz/) on hand, in case of accidents or infections.


Just to give you an idea of some of the potentially dangerous bacteria in soil, here is a short list of some of the better known "nasties".


Escherichia coli (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escherichia_coli) (commonly called E. coli) - commonly found in the lower intestine of warm-blooded animals. Can cause food poisoning or gastroenteritis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gastroenteritis) in humans.
Listeria monocytogenes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Listeria_monocytogenes) - causes listeriosis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Listeriosis).
Vibrio cholerae (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vibrio_cholerae) - causes cholera (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cholera) in humans.
Salmonella (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salmonella) - found worldwide in cold- and warm-blooded animals (including humans), and in the environment - can cause illnesses including typhoid fever (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typhoid_fever) and gastroenteritis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gastroenteritis) in humans.
Clostridium botulinum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clostridium_botulinum) - produces botulinum toxin, said to be the most toxic substance known to science - causes botulism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Botulism) in humans.
Clostridium perfringens (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clostridium_perfringens) - is the third most common cause of food poisoning in the United Kingdom and the United States. Can cause a range of other nasty effects.
Clostridium tetani (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clostridium_tetani) - causes tetanus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetanus).
Bacillus anthracis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacillus_anthracis) - causes anthrax (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthrax).
Bacillus cereus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacillus_cereus) - causes gastroenteritis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gastroenteritis).
Legionella (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legionella) - at least 50 species including one that causes Legionnaires' disease or Legionellosis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legionnaires'_disease).



I acknowledge the common practice and the benefits of using animal manure for fertilizer and in compost... BUT... It must be composted for a long time at high temperatures - even if you do that properly, some very nasty bacteria and viruses can survive.

I would avoid using manure from animals that have been given a lot of antibiotics because the likelihood is increased that they might be carrying some antibiotic resistant "super-bugs". We can't blame animals and antibiotics for all of these nasty micro-organisms as most of them have existed for hundreds of millions or even billions of years. Bacteria and viruses can multiply extremely rapidly and they can mutate (change) quite rapidly.


It's not all bad news. I recommend gadeners and farmers learn more about soil biology. Here are some excellent articles to get you started on your research:

http://permaculture.org.au/category/soil/soil-biology/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soil_life



Gardening Soil Inoculants – Benefits Of Using A Legume Inoculant
http://www.gardeningknowhow.com/vegetable/soil-inoculants.htm - many commercially made soil inoculants are available. These products usually contain only a small number of varieties of safe, beneficial micro-organisms with none of the dangerous ones. You can use compost-tea brewing techniques to mass-produce these from a small amount of commercial soil-inoculant product.


The following videos are worth watching. Michael Martin Melendrez talks about soil micro-organisms. The difference between aerobic and anaerobic bacteria, facultative anaerobes, hypervirulency and its causes an then he relates these to possible problems with compost 'tea', food safety, etc.. Be aware, this guy runs a business and some of his comments may be designed to get people to buy his products (I have never tried his products - they might be great). However, I still recommend his videos.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8MiDpAtcFg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Vcoo3DxYQk


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UusQ4i4FNu0

[Cjay]

http://www.bfa.com.au/Portals/0/Skins/BFA/images/Home_Page_Banner.jpg

This site has a huge amount of useful information about organic farming.
http://www.bfa.com.au/

...including these menus (just to give you a quick overview of the site content):

Home

News

About BFA

BFA Membership
Employment
Privacy Policy
BFA Position Statements
BFA Advisory Groups
BFA Services

Media

BFA Media Kit
BFA Media Releases
BFA Publications
BFA Spokespeople
BFA In the News

Why Organics?

What is Organics?
Benefits of Organics
Where to buy
Read about Organics
Celebrity Chef Campaign
Organic Wine
Why Organic Cosmetics
Why Organic Fashion
Organics for your Garden
Organic Recipes
Organic Crusader

Forums

Where to Buy

Buyhosting webgreat rates

Site Uptime Monitor

Industry Resources

BFA Publications
Advertising
Papers and Submissions
Australian Organic Standard
Processor Fact Sheets

Primary Producers

Organic Classifieds
Organic Certification
BFA Fact Sheets
Organic Farming Inputs
Trade Information
Soil Health Workshops

BFA Shop

webhosting

Media

BFA Media Kit
BFA Media Releases
BFA Publications
BFA Spokespeople
BFA In the News

Events

BFA Roadshows
Organic Expo
Training Courses
Certification Workshops
Value Adding Workshops
Networking Dinners
National Organic Week (NOW)

Contact BFA


...also including this very comprehensive reference document. While it is typical of bureaucracy and government or industry over-regulation, it offers some valuable - and some very frustrating - insights:

AUSTRALIAN CERTIFIED ORGANIC

AUSTRALIAN ORGANIC STANDARD 2006 - page 1 OF 114 - March 2006

TABLE OF CONTENTS

TABLE OF CONTENTS 1
INTRODUCTION 3

BACKGROUND ON BFA 4
1. SCOPE 5
2. DEFINITIONS 6

HOW TO USE THIS STANDARD 101

CERTIFICATION REQUIREMENTS: GENERAL 13

3. BASIC CERTIFICATION REQUIREMENTS 13
3.1. CERTIFICATION PROCESS 13
3.2. MAINTAINING CERTIFICATION 18
3.3. NON-COMPLIANCE AND CORRECTIVE ACTION REQUESTS 18
3.4. DOCUMENTS, RECORDS AND AUDIT TRAILS 20
3.5. LABELLING, PACKAGING, MARKETING MATERIAL AND INGREDIENT SPECIFICATIONS 21
3.6. PARALLEL PRODUCTION 23
3.7. TYPES OF CERTIFICATION 25
3.8. CERTIFICATION TRANSFERENCE/RECOGNITION ARRANGEMENTS 26
3.9. DEFERRAL OF CERTIFICATION 27

STANDARDS REQUIREMENTS: GENERAL: PRIMARY PRODUCTION 29

4. GENERAL PRODUCTION STANDARD – PRIMARY PRODUCTION 29
4.1. SOIL FERTILITY AND HEALTH MANAGEMENT 29
4.2. BROUGHT-IN MATERIALS, STOCK AND EQUIPMENT 30
4.3. COMPOSTS 31
4.4. WATER MANAGEMENT AND ECOLOGY 33
4.5. PEST, DISEASE AND WEED MANAGEMENT 34
4.6. HACCP BASED ACO FARM FOOD SAFE CERTIFICATION 35
4.7. ENVIRONMENTAL MANAGEMENT AND SOCIAL POLICY 38
4.8. CONTAMINATION (CHEMICAL, GENETIC, PHYSICAL) SOILS AND PRODUCE AND BUFFER ZONES 39

STANDARDS REQUIREMENTS: SECTOR SPECIFIC 43

5. LIVESTOCK PRODUCTION 43
5.1. LIVESTOCK MANAGEMENT - GENERAL 44
5.2. POULTRY – MEAT AND EGG PRODUCTION 50
5.3. PORCINE (PIG) PRODUCTION 52
5.4. DAIRY PRODUCTION 53
5.5. CAPRINE/GOAT PRODUCTION 53
5.6. MISCELLANEOUS INTENSIVE PRODUCTION ENVIRONMENTS 54
5.7. EXTENSIVE RANGELAND PRODUCTION 54

6. PROCESSING/PREPARATION 57
6.1. PRODUCTION FACILITIES, PROCESSES, RECORDS & PROCEDURES 57
6.2. ANIMAL PRODUCTS 61
6.3. DURABLE FOODSTUFFS 62
6.4. PERISHABLES (FRUITS, VEGETABLES) & WET PROCESSING 64
6.5. BEVERAGES 64
6.6. MISCELLANEOUS PROCESSED PRODUCTS 64

7. MISCELLANEOUS PRODUCTION SYSTEMS 67
7.1. HONEY AND BEE KEEPING 67
7.2. GREENHOUSE PRODUCTION, FLORICULTURE AND NURSERIES AND SEED PRODUCTION 70
7.3. SPROUTS INCLUDING WHEATGRASS 71
7.4. MUSHROOMS 72
7.5. WILD HARVEST 73
7.6. SILVICULTURE / FOREST MANAGEMENT 74
7.7. AQUACULTURE 75
7.8. SPECIAL PROJECTS, PLANTATIONS AND ESTATES – INTERNATIONAL 77
7.9 FAIR TRADE 79

8. MARKETING & HANDLING 82
8.1. RETAIL AND BUTCHER 82
8.2. WHOLESALER/EXPORTER/IMPORTER 83
8.3. RESTAURANTS AND PREPARED FOOD SUPPLIERS 84
8.4. TRANSPORT AND STORAGE OPERATIONS 85

9. MANUFACTURED INPUTS, AIDS & ADDITIVES 86
9.2. AGRICULTURAL INPUTS – SELECTION CRITERIA 86
9.3. AIDS AND ADDITIVES – SELECTION CRITERIA 88
9.4. CLEANSERS, SANITISERS AND DISINFECTANTS 89
9.5. EDIBLE MINERALS 89
9.6. SPRING AND PURE WATER 90
9.7. APPROVED SERVICES 91

ANNEXES 92

EXPLANATION TO ANNEXES FOR CROP AND LIVESTOCK INPUTS & TREATMENTS 92

ANNEX I: CROP PRODUCTION INPUTS 94

ANNEX II: LIVESTOCK TREATMENTS & INPUTS 102

EXPLANATION TO ANNEXES FOR PROCESSING AIDS & ADDITIVES, AND CLEANSERS, DISINFECTANTS & SANITISERS 105

ANNEX III: PROCESSING AIDS & ADDITIVES 107

ANNEX IV CLEANSERS, DISINFECTANTS, AND SANITISERS 110

ANNEX V - BIODYNAMIC STANDARD 111

ANNEX VI – LOGO TYPES 113

ACKNOWLEDGMENTS

full document: http://www.bfa.com.au/Portals/0/ACO_2010_Standard_full.pdf

[sygh]

Dear Cjay,

I can't thank you enough for this thread. You have presented so much information about food foresting, permaculture, compost tea, the ethics of ecologogical design... in short, the garden of Eden, and it's wonderful. When the student is ready, the teacher appears, LOL this is exactly what I needed.

First of all, I've got about an acre of land on the coastal plains of NC, right at the mouth of the Cape Fear River (sandy soil and brackish) I'd like to set up. Can you suggest a good book that instructs the reader on what the the best way to do this might be?

Also, I am finally finishing up my college career studying solar, thermal, and geothermal sustainable energy sources and solutions, to include architectural and ecological design. I had been trying for a Electrical Engineering Degree because I wanted to design alternative energy systems. However, I would have had to move, which was impossible for me. Consequently, the road I have taken has led me to exactly where I needed to be. Where I live, a group of us have spent a lot of time promoting, and talking in front of voters (bond issues) and patrons to incorporate alternative energy solutions and design into the local community college. YEAH!!!!! Now I get to attend these classes. HURRAY!!!!

Further, I am blessed to be involved with a Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design (LEED) showcase project, right on the Cape Fear River, here in Southport, NC. We find ourselves in the home planning stages. I cannot tell you how wonderful it is to have all of this knowledge you have shared, as an inspiration. With permission from everyone involved, maybe I can post some of the progress.

[nomadguy]

I propose a challenge to you all ~ Produce a food forest or forest garden or urban garden, anything mentioned here. THis season and then present it here. SHOW US WHAT YOU CAN DO ~ I plan to, and so I am asking for you smarties to present what you do or have done, lets share our tips experiences and real scenarios and success (or failures) stories right here on Avalon.

Cheers
C...

[Cjay]

Great challenge nomadguy. I have already posted pictures of my current back yard here:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?2050-Gardening-organics-sustainable-gardening-food-crops-etc&p=205790&viewfull=1#post205790



This was my first ever Permaculture experiment: (click photos to enlarge)


Location 1, back - Feb 1997 - dust and weeds

8142



Location 1, back - Apr 1998 - amazing growth (14 months later)

8141



Location 1, side - July 1997 - most planting done

8143



Location 1, side - Apr 1998 - amazing growth (9 months later)

8144

[Cjay]

My second Permaculture experiment (a paid job): Click photos to enlarge




Location 2 - South - 02-July-2003

8151



Location 2 - South - 18-Aug-2003 (finished planting)

8152



Location 2 - South - 16-Nov-2007 (4 years + 3 months after planting)

8153



Location 2 - North - 02-July-2003

8149


Location 2 - North - 16-Nov-2007 (4 years + 3 months after planting)

8150

[Patrikas]

I propose a challenge to you all ~ Produce a food forest or forest garden or urban garden, anything mentioned here. THis season and then present it here. SHOW US WHAT YOU CAN DO ~ I plan to, and so I am asking for you smarties to present what you do or have done, lets share our tips experiences and real scenarios and success (or failures) stories right here on Avalon.

Cheers
C...
Good idea.......have any of you guys heard of or seen this product its interesting ..

http://www.relfe.com/sonic_bloom.html

http://www.originalsonicbloom.com/

[Cjay]

Good idea.......have any of you guys heard of or seen this product its interesting ..

http://www.relfe.com/sonic_bloom.html

http://www.originalsonicbloom.com/


Thanks Patrikas, I saw that product about 2 years ago and passed on the information to a friend in Canada - he said he was going to run a controlled trial. I will follow up with him to see if he or anyone he knows tried it.

My understanding is there are two products:

soni-grow has a sound like bullfrogs and stimulates vegetative growth
sonic-bloom has a sound like birds and stimulates flowering and fruiting

I'm not sure if the nutrient solutions are different for grow and bloom - I would guess they are different because plants have different nutrient requirements at different stages of their growth cycles.

I noticed there are lots of videos here: http://originalsonicbloom.com/videos.htm and I will watch those with interest.

One issue I have with these products is that they require power to drive the sound-generators. Nature can do a very good job without electricity. I am personally most interested in perfecting more passive systems that can be used on very large areas of land in very remote areas.



I just looked up the old information I sent my friend in 2009 - here it is below:

http://befreetech.com/sonigrow.htm


This from Google Videos:


Soni-Grow - Grow Produce At The Speed of Sound
04:26 - 4 years ago
oniGrow is a completely natural, organic plant and produce growth aid that uses a special combination of nutrients along with a special sound pattern to enhance plant growth and health. The special sounds open up the pores of the plants at the leaf level, allowing the plant to drink in the specially formulated nutrient solution. So even if you have poor soil, you can grow produce that is bigger, healthier, more nutritious, longer lasting, and better tasting without any chemicals. SoniGrow will even make your plants more resistant to pests and disease, without the use of pesticides. The results are truly amazing. It’s easy to use for flowers, trees, fruits and vegetables! The Home and Garden Kit comes with an audio tape of the sound pattern, a concentrated nutrient formula, a spray bottle and a gardening spade.

I can't get the video to imbed, so here is the link: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-394943400375240409#



This is the same (very poor quality) video on YouTube:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMApqX8qTOo

[nomadguy]

I did a few small tests with certain minerals that plants want or need and a harmonic chime. I had some unexpected and amazing results... IE a four leaf clover and five-leaf that lived through winter... which included feet of snow and -5 degree F temps.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/8335_1221105657842_1534956715_2310272_3454992_n.jpg

[eva08]

I am not exactly a fan of Gordon Ramsey's personality, but I found his videos of his Great Escape to Vietnam, Cambodia and Thailand excellent. He is showing how to make the best food from what exists and it is truly and eye-opener. I could not stop watching.
Great Escape Cambodia (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EC_3MY1CgtI)

[eva08]

Here is the video I was referring to, it shows how to capture and cook tarantula, how honey is collected - I guess it's good to know all that in a pinch. Actually these are the very best foods and it's all right there. The Cambodian diet was a solution to famine. EC_3MY1CgtI there's 4 or 5 parts to this episode and then there is also the vietnam 5 part series. All excellent.

[edina]

I wanted to post this here real quick before I forget, bumped into someone today who had a conversation with an old time potatoe farmer.

Here's a tip:

If you want to grow potatoes, but feel you don't have enough water, just cut those older rotten potatoes so each cutting has at least 3 eyes, and plant 6 inches deep. They will make there own potatoes. This is not something I have heard or read anywhere. Potatoes are a great calorie crop. A good 'un to grow.

[nomadguy]

thats a great tip Edina, also everytime you eat potatoes look for the potato eyes, slice them off each has the potential to be a full potato plant. Add your slices over time to a sandy area that gets a small amount of water. Potatoes dont like too much water

[nomadguy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8mG-LOOYVE&feature=related

[Cjay]

Dear sygh,

I'm sorry I missed your post of about 4 weeks ago.


Dear Cjay,

I can't thank you enough for this thread. You have presented so much information about food foresting, permaculture, compost tea, the ethics of ecologogical design... in short, the garden of Eden, and it's wonderful. When the student is ready, the teacher appears, LOL this is exactly what I needed.

First of all, I've got about an acre of land on the coastal plains of NC, right at the mouth of the Cape Fear River (sandy soil and brackish) I'd like to set up. Can you suggest a good book that instructs the reader on what the the best way to do this might be?

Also, I am finally finishing up my college career studying solar, thermal, and geothermal sustainable energy sources and solutions, to include architectural and ecological design. I had been trying for a Electrical Engineering Degree because I wanted to design alternative energy systems. However, I would have had to move, which was impossible for me. Consequently, the road I have taken has led me to exactly where I needed to be. Where I live, a group of us have spent a lot of time promoting, and talking in front of voters (bond issues) and patrons to incorporate alternative energy solutions and design into the local community college. YEAH!!!!! Now I get to attend these classes. HURRAY!!!!

Further, I am blessed to be involved with a Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design (LEED) showcase project, right on the Cape Fear River, here in Southport, NC. We find ourselves in the home planning stages. I cannot tell you how wonderful it is to have all of this knowledge you have shared, as an inspiration. With permission from everyone involved, maybe I can post some of the progress.


Firstly, thanks for your positive comments about the information I have shared in this thread. I'm glad you are finding it useful. I don't pretend to know it all. In fact, I am always learning new things. It's nice to be able to share my new knowledge with anyone who is genuinely interested.


I recommend Permaculture: Principles & Pathways Beyond Sustainability by David Holmgren.
Here is a direct link to where you can purchase the book:
http://www.permacultureprinciples.com/resources_principles.php

For an overview, start by reading this post and watching the video:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?2050-Gardening-organics-sustainable-gardening-food-crops-etc&p=242648&viewfull=1#post242648
Then go to the Permaculture Principles website and read all of it:
http://permacultureprinciples.com/ (http://permacultureprinciples.com/)


I also recommend PERMACULTURE: A Designers Manual by Bill Mollison.
You can purchase that book (and other great books) here: http://www.tagari.com/store/12 (http://www.tagari.com/store/12)


You will also find some useful tips in the video Greening The Desert (Geoff Lawton) - the second video in this post:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?2050-Gardening-organics-sustainable-gardening-food-crops-etc&p=187963&viewfull=1#post187963


You will need to select your plant species carefully as the brackish environment might kill most plants. I suggest searching Google for "salt-tolerant plants" - you should find lots of information. If you are planting some plants that are not salt-tolerant, such as vegetables, you might need to have raised garden beds to keep the roots out of the brackish water. This may not be necessary, depending on how far below the soil surface you find the level of the ground water.

It's also a good idea to find some outstanding gardens in similar locations in your area and talk to the owners/gardeners about their experiences (particularly problems they encountered and their solutions) and discuss your project with them. Their advice and local knowledge could be very useful.

I am interested to see your progress reports. Good luck!

[WhiteFeather]

Simply Fantastic, Wow!

[nomadguy]

Nature is Teacher ~ read the plants read the landscape
http://permaculture.org.au/2011/07/14/read-the-plants-read-the-landscape/

[Dennis Leahy]

This thread needs a good bump.

In my latitude of the northern hemisphere, it is time to plant a few of the seeds (indoors) for crops that need a longer growing season than we have. I'm just planting some leek and onion seeds now.

c'mon gardiners: share!

Dennis

[pugwash84]

I heard that if you plant onions with your carrots then the carrot fly's wont lay eggs and the maggots wont eat the carrots because they wont be able to smell them over the smell of the onions.

[nomadguy]

I always start the three sisters in doors early(Feb-Mar), IE melon/squash+corn+beans/peanuts

[Strat]

Tomatoes transplanted yesterday. (http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv43/jamesphotobucket3/random/tomatoes1.jpg) After planting those, I transplanted squash and cucumber. (http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv43/jamesphotobucket3/random/squashcucumber.jpg) About an hour after planting the wind blew really hard all the way into the night. Then it rained till morning. Then about afternoon the wind came back again.

I think everything is OK (albeit beat up) but one of the cucumbers might not make it. It's up to nature. I'm really looking forward to see how the tomatoes turn out this year. You can see I have a lot more room for more plants, I'm still deciding on what to plant. I'm thinking swiss chard and sweet potatoes but I'm not too sure.

[eva08]

Strat, I have success using straw as mulch and covering young plants a little as wind cover, frost blanket and heat shield (necessary in my area)

[Dennis Leahy]

Tomatoes transplanted yesterday. (http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv43/jamesphotobucket3/random/tomatoes1.jpg) After planting those, I transplanted squash and cucumber. (http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv43/jamesphotobucket3/random/squashcucumber.jpg) About an hour after planting the wind blew really hard all the way into the night. Then it rained till morning. Then about afternoon the wind came back again.

I think everything is OK (albeit beat up) but one of the cucumbers might not make it. It's up to nature. I'm really looking forward to see how the tomatoes turn out this year. You can see I have a lot more room for more plants, I'm still deciding on what to plant. I'm thinking swiss chard and sweet potatoes but I'm not too sure.
Strat,

Do you have the catalog from Horizon Herbs?

Here's some info I posted elsewhere a few days ago:
==================================
A small seed company I'd like to share with my friends: Horizon Herbs - "Seeds of Medicine, Seeds of Sustenance" (herbs, spices, vegetables, etc.)

Horizon Herbs is a certified organic farm and organic processor.

(from their humble catalog)

"Our seeds and plants are GMO-free, untreated, open pollinated, and packed with love. All seeds and plants provided by Horizon Herbs are meant for the public good and shall remain in the public domain. No patents or genetic engineering allowed." ==============================

A number of unusual herbs and medicinal plants you might not find elsewhere. And, it is extremely important that those of us who care deeply about seeds that are organic and non-GMO, (as well as those of us that want culinary and medicinal herbs in our gardens), support these small seed companies!

In addition to all the cool medicinal and culinary herbs, check out some of the interesting vegetables and grain seeds. For example, (if you have room to grow corn), check out the Hopi Blue Corn (30% higher protein than hybrid corn), Double Red Sweet Corn, and Anasazi Sweet Corn ("Originally obrtained from a cave in New Mexico where a forward seeing Anasazi Indian had sequestered the seeds in a ceramic pot, lidded and sealed with pine pitch. After sprouting and growing out, the corn revealed itself as a currently unknown strain of multiple colors tasting wholesome and sweet.")

http://www.horizonherbs.com/


==================================

Dennis
p.s. I'm jealous if by "transplant" you mean into outdoor soil. We got at least a foot of snow yesterday, and Spring has not yet sprung here.

[Bo Atkinson]

For people of the cold climates... I live above the 44th parallel where growing is a challenge, in winter. I promote the concept of self-heating-greenhouses.

Earlier in this thread i was still struggling to build this thing. Hampered by my use of extreme design-goals with curved-stucture, low budget, too much elbow grease and some recycled materials. On two occasions, half the recycled cardboard blew off with sudden gusts of wind, "my bad" as some say. (When procrastination set in, for lovely afternoons with leisure instead).
http://harmoniouspalette.com/EyelidGreenhouse/SelfHeatingGreenHouse.html
I'm glad to say i did manage to finish up with about an R3 cardboard insulation value, two layers bubble-pack plastic sheet for the eyeball part and R10 foam (skirt around the building site), was placed two years ago. (I'll upgrade dome with better stuff eventually. Takes time working alone.) In any case, with outdoors frozen almost a meter deep, here is this years payback:
http://harmoniouspalette.com/EyelidGreenhouse/EyeLiDomeJan2012.jpghttp://harmoniouspalette.com/EyelidGreenhouse/march2012eyelid.jpg

By contrast, a single layer of plastic or glass in a green house, with no insulation, will occasionally thaw the ground inside, but the hardiest of plants barely stay alive (while they were thriving as winter arrived).

I've design-built-pondered greenhouses and part-time-landscaping (on the side) for 40 years now. This winter's crop is mostly red-russian-kale and stawberries-(runners transplants). These kept green leaves all winter, as compared with single layer greenhouses where the leaves all turn brown. The biggest surprise was an undetermined vegetable, wife thinks it might be bok-choy,(we loose track at times)... Wow, that is a lovely leaf to eat. Kale of corse grows the most, even better than chard. The broccoli in pic above produced small heads and leaves frayed a little. In any case, growth is much better.

[GlassSteagallfan]

Seed starting calendar
14390


PS. How do I delete some of my 'manage attachments'?

[Delight]

I am a gardener and have chickens. I also participate in growing organic vegies with a group for the local food bank. My intention is to attract a couple of partners in a farming enterprise. I am really appreciative of information like this.....

Bringing together architecture and chemistry so that buildings have a positive relationship with the environment

http://www.iai.tv/video/designing-life

A researcher specialising in architecture and synthetic biology, Rachel Armstrong imagines a future with building materials that function as part of living systems. New Scientist caught up with her to talk about her new TED book, Living Architecture.

What is wrong with today’s architecture?
The issue with modern architecture is that it is imagined through the framework and technology of the machine. We even think of ourselves as machines. Machines are good at taking resources and making objects but they’re impenetrable to the environment and they are extremely wasteful.

http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/culturelab/2012/02/creating-buildings-that-repair-themselves.html

[heyokah]

Sorry, wrong thread :rolleyes:

[Bo Atkinson]

http://harmoniouspalette.com/EyelidGreenhouse/firstOpening.jpg
Extend your growing season better than regular greenhouses can extend growing seasons. Why? More insulation! Insulate the whole house site! Finally, all my surfaces have some winter insulation. It is very unrefined but greens are frost-free all winter. The soil is warmer for plant roots and chutes. I'm glad to test the concept on a low budget. Creative licence + common sense frees up one's life! Be freer!
http://harmoniouspalette.com/EyelidGreenhouse/SelfHeatingGreenHouse.html

[Strat]

@Dennis
Hey, sorry for the (very) late reply. I didn't know about that company but I'll definitely look into them some more. If I can avoid GMO's I will.

My plants come from either my locally owned garden center or Ace Hardware's/Lowes'/Home Depot's garden center.

Ohh and yes I did indeed mean I transplanted from a pot and into the soil. That post was almost exactly 1 month ago and now the tomato plants are just under 5' tall.