Censorship here?

[ulli]

Talking of self moderation:
Sometimes I wish we had a Tl, dr button, which means "too long, didn't read"
as a way of members moderating each other.
Right next to the Thank you button
it might send a signal to a poster, especially when they are becoming boring or repetitive.

The moderators life would be easier, too.

Google "tl, dr", lots of usage examples.

Here is one:

Urban Word of the Day: Tl, dr
Literally, "Too long; didn't read"

Said whenever a nerd makes a post that is too long to bother reading.
"omg you postwench. i can only say one thing in response - tl;dr"
"tl;dr...why dont you give up on your unabridged edition of War and Peace or at least stop posting it here?"

[sunnyrap]

I like your points and proposed solutions, 9eagle9. A kind of have your cake and eat it too solution that keeps moderation from becoming too heavy handed/autocratic but clearly defines 'smoking' and 'non-smoking' areas (speaking of flames)

[qbeac]

…This particular forum was not founded to give anyone and everyone a platform for free speach….

Best regards Jake.

(Note: emphasis added by me in above quote)

Hi everyone,

The following fact (see below) is quite interesting, surprising, and confusing. Please, could somebody explain this situation in a simple to understand way?

The fact is based on these two points:



1) The society constructed by the elite-illuminati (our current society) has recognised the right to freedom of speech for everyone in this planet since the year 1948.

2) However, the Avalon forum (which many of us thought it was one of the leading enterprises aimed at overcoming the great miseries and injustices of the illuminati’s society) apparently doesn’t apply it in the year 2011, according to what Jake says:
Jake (Avalon moderator) wrote:



… This particular forum [Avalon forum] was not founded to give anyone and everyone a platform for free speach…
Freedom of speech (or freedom of expression)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech



Excerpts:

Freedom of speech is the freedom to speak freely without censorship.

The synonymous term freedom of expression is sometimes used to indicate not only freedom of verbal speech but any act of seeking, receiving and imparting information or ideas, regardless of the medium used.

The right to freedom of speech is recognized as a human right under Article 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and recognized in international human rights law in the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR).

Article 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, adopted in 1948, states that:



"Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers."

The World Summit on the Information Society (WSIS) Declaration of Principles adopted in 2003 makes specific reference to the importance of the right to freedom of expression for the "Information Society" in stating:



"We reaffirm, as an essential foundation of the Information Society, and as outlined in Article 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, that everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression… etc.

Communication is a fundamental social process, a basic human need and the foundation of all social organisation. It is central to the Information Society.

Everyone, everywhere should have the opportunity to participate and no one should be excluded from the benefits of the Information Society offers."
----------------------------------------------

In Post #127 (pag 7) of this thread, you’ll be able to read a great speech by JFK titled "The President and the Press," (1961), in which JFK explains the GREAT DANGERS of an “excessively controlled and censored” society versus a “free and open society”.

Post #127, pag. 7. JFK speech, "The President and the Press," (1961)
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?20545-Censorship-here&p=219355&viewfull=1#post219355

Based on that JFK speech, I asked Bill Ryan and Paul a simple question: to choose between options “a” or “b”, as it is explained here:

Post 161 (pag 9). Question to Bill and Paul (Avalon moderator): Option “a” or “b”?
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?20545-Censorship-here&p=219499&viewfull=1#post219499

Paul (Avalon moderator), so far, apparently has decided not to answer that simple question (because I image he has already seen it; and he can correct me if he hasn’t seen it yet).

Now I ask the same simple question to Jake (Avalon moderator):



Jake, please, from those two options (“a” or “b”) in Post 161 (pag 9), which one do you choose, “a” or “b”?

[Lord Sidious]

Don't you recall the statements that you had to agree to when you joined?
I do.
Those should tell you that speech on here is within certain limits, which even in the real world applies too.

[andywight]

Come on, don't insult our intelligence here.


I would never dream of insulting your intelligence my Lord, or of that of of this fine forum, of which you seem to be inspiring to be the spokesman for.

Anyhoo, if I did want to insult your intelligence! which for the record I most certainty don't, which would not be necessarily for me to do so as you seem to be doing a splendid job of that all by yourself.

Regards,

Andy :cool:

[Lord Sidious]

Come on, don't insult our intelligence here.


I would never dream of insulting your intelligence my Lord, or of that of of this fine forum, of which you seem to be inspiring to be the spokesman for.

Anyhoo, if I did want to insult your intelligence! which for the record I most certainty don't, it would not be necessarily for me to do so as you seem to be doing a splendid job of that all by yourself.

Regards,

Andy :cool:

Not bad, not bad at all. :p

[andywight]

Come on, don't insult our intelligence here.


I would never dream of insulting your intelligence my Lord, or of that of of this fine forum, of which you seem to be inspiring to be the spokesman for.

Anyhoo, if I did want to insult your intelligence! which for the record I most certainty don't, it would not be necessarily for me to do so as you seem to be doing a splendid job of that all by yourself.

Regards,

Andy :cool:

Not bad, not bad at all. :p

I live in a third world country with limited bandwidth, so I apologize for the delay in my responses.

I do try my best :humble:

[Rocky_Shorz]

to me, being uncensored is the ability for me to bring up any subject in the universe...

to openly discuss tabboo topics...

no witch hunts...
no burning at the stake...

I'm kicked back here at Bill's pad in a big ol comfy recliner discussing topics spanning the universe, I see tons of people in the background listening, their minds expanding...

Then I walk by a room with people arguing that speech here isn't free... Have I paid for the privilege to be here? No Has Bill? of course he has...

can anyone think of a topic other than insulting our fine host that isn't allowed?

[qbeac]

Don't you recall the statements that you had to agree to when you joined?
I do.
Those should tell you that speech on here is within certain limits, which even in the real world applies too.
Hi Lord Sidious,

What I mean is that the guidelines of any modern forum (after 1948, when they recognised the right to freedom of speech) should not damage nor penalize the right to freedom of speech if that right is conducted in a civilized, well intended, and respectful manner.

The guidelines should apply to causing other types of “troubles” that have nothing to do with freedom of speech, such as:



Insulting, attacking, spamming, provoking others with malice, lying, being deceptive and causing harm to others on purpose… and things of that negative nature.
But if the guidelines are abused or twisted to the extent that they are used to censor information, to avoid healthy, constructive, and well intended criticism, or to stifle dissent (as JFK very well explains in his 1961 speech), then:



Houston, we have a problem!
That’s the key issue of this debate: freedom of speech versus guidelines.

And that’s even more important in a forum such as Avalon, because of what it represents as an agent of a free and open society that wants to solve the wrong doings of the elite-illuminati society.

Therefore, the following are some of the important questions we need to resolve:



Have there been any abuses of power in the moderating arena?

Has any moderator used false or wrong pretexts to unjustly ban people?

Are members being removed/banned without justifiable reasons, according to the 'guidelines' of PA? (Ex: like with Chicodoodoo)

Is there any guideline that prohibits members for questioning and debating the quality of the moderating activity? (As we are doing in this thread)

Are the Avalon guidelines aligned with the spirit of a free and open society, and with the spirit of free speech?

Could or should the guidelines be improved or modified in case they harm the right to free speech?

…. Etc.
It is the moderating quality, and the moderation removal of members that is in question.

It is the good design and application of the guidelines what is in question.

This should interest every member.

[Lord Sidious]

No one to blame but me, I asked the question.

[Flash]

This is so interesting!! Do you all realized that all of us are only and mostly speaking of here are about:

Values (freedom of speech for example)
Beliefs
Ethics
Processes (how values and beliefs are applied)

this is usually difficult in a regular environment, now much compounded in a multinational web environment.

We are not talking about throlls or real bad behavior, we are talking about different perceptions stemming from the above.

In a place, a household, a village, a town or a country where values or beliefs are not shared, discussion or fights arise. This is entirely normal.

Values and beliefs and their consequent emotions and behaviors are ill defined. And if they are defined, this is certainly not all the members of the forum that are aware of them.

And the disagreements comes from a misunderstanding of the basic, basic which would help to form something strong.

Working on this would make a strong forum.

Have you notice that the main person that could help solve this is absent. We know we are on Bill' s forum, but sincerely, I do not know what his values and beliefs truly are nor the behaviors he wants to see. I do not know what he would impose, because i do not know. All I know is that lately he himself seems to have taken a different direction. Does that includes new values and beliefs?

All I know is that he does not like, undestandably, someone to vomit on his carpet. However, may we make noise while eating and also let go of the air in our stomack at the table - is this polite or not (in China it is required to compliment the host, it seems).

I do I know what misalignment means here at Avalon if the premises are not clear.

Yes, sometimes I am scare to post, thinking I may be in dire trouble if I say what I see. Because I don't know what is truly acceptable or not on this forum (apart from obvious harmful behavior to others as described in previous posts). I don't like to live in fear of in misunderstanding. Solving this would be, in my idea, major.

[ulli]

Bill's just gone off to find himself another "Mount Everest",

and I for one trust that he knows what he's doing.

He can't very well drag all of us along,

nor be expected to send back messages every few minutes.

But there will be new adventure tales when he shows up again.

[Seikou-Kishi]

Chico, hope you don't mind me posting this here, PM me if you want me to delete.


== Post edited ,please abstain from qouting posts from other forums ==

THANKS

Am I the only member here that thinks it's a little ironic that my first ever post to be censored is on a thread called "Censorship here?" :tape:

That's not censorship. That's like the Guardian saying "I wrote/read this in the Times, why not look there".

[Mike]

well, if i was Bill i'd be pretty well ticked too.

imagine: you give up a well-paying job to follow a passion that not only benefits you, but others as well. it is very high risk, low reward. it is life threatening. you live hand to mouth, providing a valuable service to others while asking for absolutely nothing in return. you provide a forum for like-minded people to meet and converse, connecting the emotional islands everyone are on to form a fantastic community. meanwhile, everyone is h'oponono'ing on the back of unfair racial allegations against you and obnoxiously beating the "censorship" drum in protest of imagined grievances. it's absurd.

i'm not sure why Bill is absent exactly, but it seems obvious to me. can't say i blame him one bit.

[Sierra]

No one to blame but me, I asked the question.

SMACK THUMP. Yes you did you silly nugget but we forgive you because you are our Beloved Leader.

[Sierra]

Paul (Avalon moderator), so far, apparently has decided not to answer that simple question (because I image he has already seen it; and he can correct me if he hasn’t seen it yet).


Qbeac, do your homework. If you are going to ask the same question ad nauseum, then at least pay attention to the responses. Here is Paul's answer from posting # 227 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?20545-Censorship-here&p=219958&viewfull=1#post219958) on this thread:




<snip>
I absolutely would -not- mandate that all web forums support any particular form of due process or respect for freedom of speech or manner of processing errors or avoidance of any specific amount of secrecy. That is, and should remain, up to the individuals owning each web forum.

We have seen what the imposition of "public" (really corporate and TPTB, via the nation state) standards has done to our schools. God forbid we should contemplate any such tyranny over web forums.

Demanding that all web forums, or even that any particular web forum, submit to the tyranny of the majority risks being one step along this road.

I say No to that.

[Sierra]

The censorship threads are almost funny!

Everybody knows full well, before they apply for membership, that this is a moderated forum.

While I would say there are some differences between censorship and moderation let's assume that they are the same thing here (just for the sake of argument).

So Yes! This is a censored (moderated) forum! :) Now... do you see the funny side of creating those threads?

While I hope that in the future (when we will be more in harmony and learn to accept our differences better) there will be no need for moderators/censorship and the forum will be open to anybody.... we are not there yet!

And now... some final words:

7441 :censored::frusty:

Oh well.... :to_pick_ones_nose:

PS: I want to get to 1,500 Thanks by the end of this month... so any help would be highly appreciated! (Thanks a bunch!) :rolleyes:

Well.... looking at Ilie doubtfully ... Paul is the mod I've chosen to pamper and compliment and give coos and peeled grapes chilled in champagne ... but if you insist!

Loop 1 to 1500

THANK YOU Ilie! You are the BEST! (cept for Paul), absolutely the BEST!!!
End loop

[humanalien]

Mad hatter after donning flameproof suit, tin pants and devils advocate hat read the point made about ego strips down again and being cancerian goes out to howl at the moon instead...

Good night Avalon and thanks yet again for turning a contentious issue into robust intelligent conversation... sh!t you guys are good !!!

This is really off topic Mad Hatter but have you noticed that the numbers
inside your avatar look like it says "I Love You"? Does anyone else see this
or is it just me?

[Lord Sidious]

Mad hatter after donning flameproof suit, tin pants and devils advocate hat read the point made about ego strips down again and being cancerian goes out to howl at the moon instead...

Good night Avalon and thanks yet again for turning a contentious issue into robust intelligent conversation... sh!t you guys are good !!!

This is really off topic Mad Hatter but have you noticed that the numbers
inside your avatar look like it says "I Love You"? Does anyone else see this
or is it just me?

I don't see it yet, but I will have a chat with Uncle Jack and let you know.
Daniels that is. :p

[humanalien]

Do to an eye injury, i'm looking at it with one eye and that is what i see.
Uncle jack will only make you see double. :p

[noxon medem]

Chico, hope you don't mind me posting this here, PM me if you want me to delete.


== Post edited ,please abstain from qouting posts from other forums ==

THANKS

Am I the only member here that thinks it's a little ironic that my first ever post to be censored is on a thread called "Censorship here?" :tape:

That's not censorship. That's like the Guardian saying "I wrote/read this in the Times, why not look there".

To your information, Seikou-Kishi, the different media outlets, also mainstream,
constantly borrow and cross-reference articles and news with/from each other .
( why do you think it is all more or less the same ? )

To the mods:
"Post edited ,please abstain from quoting posts from other forums "
Realy ? From any other forum ?
Do you realy want to paint yourselves into that corner ?

If you mean the Nexus forum, then say so, and know that amongst
others Bill Ryan quoted from that other forum in the Integrity-thread.
( But that was last week, and that was Bill, I guess ...)

The mod-team must be stressed out of their minds to come
up with this kind of childish, absurd, and limiting, regulations.

You are realy making things up as you go here, don't you,
and the confusion that bring is more damaging than internal disputes.

What is the next,
If you are not with us you are against us ?

I think you all need a vacation. Some longer than others ..
Close down the forum for some weeks if you have to.

:)
(but seriously..)

Be well
nm

[Intraphase]

I'm only on page seven. Yikes. :frusty:

I dig drama totally.
I use the shy quiet approach and stand next to the loudest person in the room.
I'm evil like that, but at least I know it.

Bill's on a dramatic journey as are we all.
Being adept at turning a phrase and coining slogans I'll answer the gist in my opinion.

Avalon is the spirit of adventure on a journey of discovery.

Prior to Charles's arrival the forum was similar to a ship crossing an uncharted ocean not knowing whether the crew and travelers would ever see land again.
A certain camaraderie and collegial egalitarianism developed and prevailed.

Then a new continent was discovered.
It wasn't the specific content or details of Charles's material but the over arching message which was is and always shall be.

There is a game called awareness in progress.
It is a many level sensory immersion experience.
You can not escape the game without ceasing to exist.
Ceasing to exist is an unknown outcome because no who has ceased to exist can explain the details of it.

So the ship made landfall; maybe it was Charles's Bluff or Williams Point
or Chico's Ledge or Intraphase's Bridge but one way or another the game continues onward as always as "The Great Game" of conscious awareness as embodied by AVALON@... "The spirit of adventure on a journey of discovery."

Now a great leg of the journey is crossing an unknown continent.
The ship(s) landed on solid ground and exploration parties were formed.
I dig Chicodoodoo, but he made a turn to join a different party of explorers.

I think Bill learned so much in such a short time he is absorbing it and processing it. In that way Inelia and Bill's relationship reminds me of:

"...

Pocahontas is most famously linked to the English colonist Captain John Smith, who arrived in Virginia with just more than a hundred other settlers in April 1607. After building a fort on a marshy peninsula poking out into the James River, the Englishmen had numerous encounters over the next several months with the American Indians of Tsenacommacah, some of them friendly, some hostile. Then, in December 1607, while exploring on the Chickahominy River, Smith was captured by a hunting party led by Powhatan's younger brother (or close relative) Opechancanough and brought to Powhatan's capital at Werowocomoco. In his 1608 account, Smith described a large feast followed by a long talk with Powhatan. He does not mention Pocahontas in relation to his capture; in fact, in this account, he does not meet Pocahontas for the first time until a few months later.[19] In 1616, however, Smith wrote a letter to Queen Anne in anticipation of Pocahontas's visit to England. In this new account, his capture included the threat of his own death: "... at the minute of my execution," he wrote, "she [Pocahontas] hazarded the beating out of her own brains to save mine; and not only that, but so prevailed with her father, that I was safely conducted to Jamestown."[3]

..."


The game never ends and runs 24/7/365.
If you play with a spirit of adventure on a journey of discovery the random white noise gradually coalesces into a world that is exactly as you designed.

Freedom has it natural limits.
Free will has its natural limits.
Cause and Effect are loop linked.
Eventually effect time spans dominate cause time spans.

We don't seek the truth we create it.
The goals of social moderation which are the prime locus of the thread are just as easily accomplished in a subtle way. Notice I am a quiet person hiding within the noisiest group of nuggets out there.

I'll make a projection for the "General" players; ABC soup chefs let GM out on time served. In my neighborhood when two guys get in a knife fight and the loser dies, the winner is sent to prison to await trial. After much bureaucratic delays the player who overbid his hand and ended up in the cell is sent home to his mum after a plea and time served.

Sometime; when in the wilderness you just keep making minor corrections and keep moving to insure you: "Don't get lost in details."

Anybody seen Ben Laden? I noticed his old chair is open.:frog:
Must have found a more interesting game variant going on elsewhere.:wave:



:pop2::pop2::pop2:



Doomer: "The sun shall not rise tommorow!!!"

Gloomy: "It rose today."

Doomer: "The sun shall not rise tommorow!"

Gloomy: "That's what you said yesterday."

[jjl]

I wish there was a button here that had a question mark on it. That way I could express that I didnt understand, without having to ask the question.

[Limor Wolf]

Chico, hope you don't mind me posting this here, PM me if you want me to delete.


== Post edited ,please abstain from qouting posts from other forums ==

THANKS



Noxon medem originally posted:To your information, Seikou-Kishi, the different media outlets, also mainstream,
constantly borrow and cross-reference articles and news with/from each other .
( why do you think it is all more or less the same ? )

To the mods:
"Post edited ,please abstain from quoting posts from other forums "
Realy ? From any other forum ?
Do you realy want to paint yourselves into that corner ?

If you mean the Nexus forum, then say so, and know that amongst
others Bill Ryan quoted from that other forum in the Integrity-thread.
( But that was last week, and that was Bill, I guess ...)

The mod-team must be stressed out of their minds to come
up with this kind of childish, absurd, and limiting, regulations.

You are realy making things up as you go here, don't you,
and the confusion that bring is more damaging than internal disputes.

What is the next,
If you are not with us you are against us ?

I think you all need a vacation. Some longer than others ..
Close down the forum for some weeks if you have to.

:)
(but seriously..)

Be well
nm


Noxon medem,
thank you for airing your thoughts and I am about to relate to those so if there are still any questions left to anyone it might get some clear answers!

Onw word before I do:I would very much appreciate a nicer tone when raising your questions,this feels more like an attack than a real desire to know.I appreciate your future cooperation.

Removing Chico's quotation has nothing to do with cross referencing articles and borrowing information from other sources ,please try and make your assessment closer to the truth :) In all honesty The simple two main resons for trying to avoid quoting in whole from another forum (any other forum) is that it makes no sense mixing conversations from two different places.have you ever heard about two radio stations relating to eachother's programs and exchanging opinions? each one and their own uniqueness.

I have a couple of years experience with other two forums as well as moderating one of them, and I do not ever remember having combining conversations between the two.
a little bit cumbersome process,dont you think?

another reason is that quoting word to word from another person while it was decided that he should no longer be with us is like acting here as his direct voice.as it was said,we felt he should no longer be with us

However,there is by no means an attempt to shut up ones own's feelings (Andy's),let me share my e.mail to andywight for everyone (who is interested) to decide upon themselfs:


RE: MIXING MESSAGES WITH OTHER FORUMS

Dear Andy,

I noticed your message (I think its the last one) on the 'censorship here?' thread

I need to ask you to please delete it as mixing posts with other forums is not making any sense,and I am sure you can write a few words expressing what you want to say with your own words (and pleaaaase with a minimum of respect)

I will appreciate it,

Have a good day!

~*&^~*&^~*&^~*&^

Limor



Only after half an hour,when getting no response,I erased the quotation myself.

One more thing - wich I also refered to andywhight in our later correspondance:This is not about any specific forum (cut it off,we all know you mean our neighbors Nexus2012 ;) )

It is simply about any other forum that is not Avalon forum.

I hope it does give answer to some of your concerns



~*&^ wonderfull good energies to us all ~*&^


Limor

[noxon medem]

Thank you, Limor.

I hope you can see that the language is straight forward talk,
with a bit of frustration, no hostility on my part.
Confusion is easy between cultures, not least on the net, and
between the masculin and feminin.
I register Avalon is now getting more feminine and will try
to adjust my tone to you fraile and timid creatures.

7484
( ouch ..)

Some more basic stereotyping to the situation of conflict.
Masculine: Direct approach and fistfighting. Over and done with.
Feminine: Subtle manipulation and intrigue. Eternal bickering.
(is it a joke ? you deside ..)

Another thing you confuse:

Removing Chico's quotation has nothing to do with cross referencing articles and borrowing information from other sources ,
please try and make your assessment closer to the truth :)
That is clearly directed at Seikou-Kishi, and a poorly chosen analogy in my view.
You are mixing it up, it was not a comment to your statements.
I will assume you are not intentionaly giving a false representation .
:)

Anyway, I am thankful for the clarification, allthough I still find it a strange practise, and limiting if
not implied with some flexibility. I do understand the judgement was made in a special situation,
and raise the consern to make you aware about setting a fixed standard from that one occation.


another reason is that quoting word to word from another person while it was decided that he should no longer
be with us is like acting here as his direct voice.as it was said,we felt he should no longer be with us
You probably understand that I think it was unjust and a mistake to retire Chicodoodoo from the forum.
For no apparent qualified reason, and in the middle of a discussion. I hear the echoe.
Your actions makes him ever more present, but you clearly do not see that.

This problem is a periode-thing and your openness in this reply gives me good hope that this can
be aired sensibly, and then layed to rest. I will certainly not drag it out just for the hell of it,
and will not argue detail into a perpetual querulary deadend.

7487

Since I have your and the teams attention.
I raised a suggestion on another related thread, and earlyer in this one:

Whenever a post is edited by the mods, then the member making that
post should immediately receive a PM with a notice and reference.

Is that now standard procedure in the moderating of this forum ?

If not I make a formal suggestion that the mods make it so.
That will show prudent respect for the words we all put in here, even
if you do not like them all, and put to rest some of the Censorship-issue.

How is it with that one ? Can you discuss it and come back with a Yes or No ?

Best regard to you and the other mods.
Basicly I wish the best for you and the forum.
And for the most you do a fine job on a fine forum.

(everything written is Personal Opinion. No need repeat that)

All well
nm

[Seikou-Kishi]

See Limor, that's your mistake. You were courteous and gentle with him, and they clamour so much after a brutal dictatorship I think it's really what they want most of all lol.

[noxon medem]

edit:
....
redundant reply to redundant post
...
removed by me
..
nm
.

[NancyV]

The game never ends and runs 24/7/365.
If you play with a spirit of adventure on a journey of discovery the random white noise gradually coalesces into a world that is exactly as you designed.

Freedom has it natural limits.
Free will has its natural limits.
Cause and Effect are loop linked.
Eventually effect time spans dominate cause time spans.

We don't seek the truth we create it.
The goals of social moderation which are the prime locus of the thread are just as easily accomplished in a subtle way. Notice I am a quiet person hiding within the noisiest group of nuggets out there.

Wow, I loved your entire post, Intraphase! You have a wonderful way of describing things with a great combination of poetry, wit, wisdom and intelligence. You may think you are the quiet person hiding in a noisy group but you've always come across loud and clear to me.

Nancy :hug:

[Sierra]

Notice I am a quiet person hiding within the noisiest group of nuggets out there.


Noisy nugget? Noisy nugget? <looking around wildly>

LOL Intraphase!

Sierra :hippie:

[Limor Wolf]

Since I have your and the teams attention.
I raised a suggestion on another related thread, and earlyer in this one:

Whenever a post is edited by the mods, then the member making that
post should immediately receive a PM with a notice and reference.

Is that now standard procedure in the moderating of this forum ?

If not I make a formal suggestion that the mods make it so.
That will show prudent respect for the words we all put in here, even
if you do not like them all, and put to rest some of the Censorship-issue.

How is it with that one ? Can you discuss it and come back with a Yes or No ?

Best regard to you and the other mods.
Basicly I wish the best for you and the forum.
And for the most you do a fine job on a fine forum.

(everything written is Personal Opinion. No need repeat that)

All well
nm

ohoo,I liked the second picture of child and horse- I wish that we would look that cute like these two when not agreeing with each other...


I can give you a straight answer on your suggestion: yes,that is exactly what IS done (anything that goes beyond fixing quotes or links), hundreds of members can testify to our correspondance with them,usually asking if THEY can trim or erase or change the 'problematic' part.whenever an Avalonian is not on-line (hit and ran :) we send a PM with an explanation wich usually being responded later-on.Communication is an important part of moderating a forum.

A suggestion was made in the 'Mods back room' that it could be good if every Avalon forum member could have submit a day to this job!it might not be the most realistic of proposals,but it can give a chance to everyone to be on the side of the 'party organizers'- you know,those that are making the preperations and the ones that clean and tidy later on.of course,remaining as a guest and enjoy the party to the full has its own Benefits and you can see some things that the organizers may have missed (nobody's perfect)

Thanks for your warm words nm,we are all in this party together,better as well enjoy it!


Blessings and good energies to us all!

~*&^~*&^~*&^~*&^~*&^~*&^~

Limor

[noxon medem]

- some editing and emphasizing is done in quoted tekst by me :



I can give you a straight answer on your suggestion: yes,that is exactly what IS done (anything that goes beyond fixing quotes or links), hundreds of members can testify to our correspondance with them,usually asking if THEY can trim or erase or change the 'problematic' part.whenever an Avalonian is not on-line (hit and ran : ) we send a PM with an explanation wich usually being responded later-on.Communication is an important part of moderating a forum.

A suggestion was made in the 'Mods back room' that it could be good if every Avalon forum member could have submit a day to this job!it might not be the most realistic of proposals,but it can give a chance to everyone to be on the side of the 'party organizers'- you know,those that are making the preperations and the ones that clean and tidy later on.of course,remaining as a guest and enjoy the party to the full has its own Benefits and you can see some things that the organizers may have missed (nobody's perfect)


Thank you, Limor, for that clear and informative answer.
Communication is certainly a key to avoid confrontation,
since disagreement often springs from misunderstanding.
That puts that part of the issue, and my mind, to rest.

:fish2:

I have been on the organizing side of different "parties", well,
also in the concrete sense, most of my life, so I both understand
the strife involved and commend anyone who involves in that.
Maybe not a realistic idea, the "day as a mod", also since there
must be lots of tech and protocol involved, but interesting thought.

Nice thing that this was answered, and in such a positive way .
I started thinking you (the mods) would ignore this question,
and like the saying go: Better to be whipped than ignored .
Since I avoided both I should be happy, and I am .
:)

All well to you,
the team and all.
nm

PS.
Hopefully we do not have to argue to be as cute as the girl and the horse .
I will try it out and see how it looks .

:hug:

[andywight]

It is the disingenuous nature of the OP's original post. THAT is the fuel for the fire, not Andy as a human being. The original post is yet another (yawn) thinly-veiled, side-door attack on Bill and the mods. The poll is laughably flawed (one option should have been "Get Bill!"), and quickly the real intent - trumpeting for Chicodoodoo - was revealed.

Anyone paying even a slight bit of attention knows that Chicodoodoo asked for changes he wanted to see (that the mods. admins, and Bill were not in favor of, i.e., allowing virtually anything to be posted, regardless how much of the community's time and energy is sapped from our REAL reasons to be gathered here), and refused to take no for an answer. So, he started another forum, where he could do as he wished. But (as far as I know), his life force has been diverted from such things as the admirable "People United" pledge and onto the Get Bill! bandwagon. Like the jaws of a Pit Bull, dragging the entire Avalon forum down by refusing to let go and move on - move BACK - to important subjects.

I see no indication that Chicodoodoo is going to let up. I hope he does, and gets back on-track with the People United concept and moves forward. Otherwise, unless he wants to be accused of being a phony, he should change the name to People United As Soon As Bill Is Eviscerated, because that certainly seems to be his major issue in life right now. And Andy, you have posted nothing whatsoever to indicate you have any sincerity in overcoming the reign of the Global Rulers or anything remotely helping mankind, so don't be surprised when no one comes running to assist you in your one-track, Avalon denigrating mission.

The admins and mods have mostly light housekeeping duties on almost all of the forum - until yet another thread that attempts to steal the energy of the entire forum appears. Pretending these issues have urgency is like complaining about what awful food you had for breakfast while you're on a battlefield with bombs exploding around you.

Make a list of the 100 most important issues of our time on this Earth. No, this is not rhetorical, I'm asking anyone who thinks that bitching about former members (some who are self-proclaimed superstars but lack any evidence) of Avalon is one of the 100 or even 1000 most important issues of our short journey through this incarnation to actually make a list. If this is on your list, go start another forum and rant about it. We are ready to move on. We have other things to do, more important work to attend to.

Dennis

p.s. I'm personally very fed up with wasting time. I have a sense of urgency. You can look for me closing threads like this when they appear. I'm closing this one right now.

Is the closing of a thread not the ultimate form of censorship on a forum?

I would like to thank again all the members of this forum that contributed there (I thanked every post, bar two) there were some truly intelligent and inspirational posts :clap2:


p.s. I'm personally very fed up with wasting time. I have a sense of urgency. You can look for me closing threads like this when they appear. I'm closing this one right now.

I guess I have said too much already :tape:

[loveandgratitude]

thank god

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz76657664

[noxon medem]

so
let us meet
at the bench

7666

see u (all)

:fish2:
nm

[noxon medem]

a little story, that may or not be related .

- my father was a fanatic anti smoker .

there were some smokers in the family .
(some of the most fun people ...)..

We had family gatherings and holiday partys
at the ("his") cabin near the mountains .
The smokers were directed to the outside
- in general, the area under the entrance roof ..

Funny enough, by the highlight of the evening
everyone was in the smoking area ...
under the outside roof ..
(including my father)

- humour
all around

love and ....
( you know )

:hippie:

nm

[OnyxKnight]

As it states in the forum Guidelines:

Anyone who does not appear to be in alignment with the purpose and energy of the forum may be asked to leave.

Imagine a worldwide policy just like that, pertaining to all humans, and being put into action.

> Anyone who does not appear to be in alignment with the purpose and energy of the global mentality may be incarcerated to undetermined time period <

This as a community with 'alternative minds' would not exist.

Just like Chico said, be the change you want to see in the world.

And I see the same censorship here day after day (but I usually keep quiet about it). Latest one happened today, to me.

[Donna O]

As it states in the forum Guidelines:

Anyone who does not appear to be in alignment with the purpose and energy of the forum may be asked to leave.

Imagine a worldwide policy just like that, pertaining to all humans, and being put into action.

> Anyone who does not appear to be in alignment with the purpose and energy of the global mentality may be incarcerated to undetermined time period <

This as a community with 'alternative minds' would not exist.

Just like Chico said, be the change you want to see in the world.

And I see the same censorship here day after day (but I usually keep quiet about it). Latest one happened today, to me.

Onyxknight, I believe the reference to your claim of censorship was instead a case of removing a flippant comment that you made regarding another member. The comment was removed simply to avoid offending that member. Is this what you call censorship? I would call it maintaining good manners and effective communication without the need to resort to insults.

All this talk about censorship is getting utterly ridiculous and is a waste of everyone’s time and patience. It’s time the record was changed and common sense resumed.

[Seikou-Kishi]

It wasn't just a flippant comment, Donna, it was a potential insult. It is not wrong to remove insults from the forum. That is not censorship — that's cleaning up after people who aren't mature enough not to make the mess in the first place.

[Rocky_Shorz]

I offend people from around the world with almost everything I write...

but I do it with style... :heh:

[OnyxKnight]

Latest one happened today, to me.

Make that twice in a row.

Even though the comment I made had no nick attached to it (for anyone to be offended), nor the words I used, the post got removed nonetheless.

What the hell is wrong with you people?

[ThePythonicCow]

Anyone who does not appear to be in alignment with the purpose and energy of the global mentality may be incarcerated to undetermined time period

I made what I consider to be an Important Post on this concern, earlier in this very thread, at Post #227 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?20545-Censorship-here&p=219958&viewfull=1#post219958).

A few readers may recall it. It began "There is a fundamental difference between a state and a web forum.

A state has a monopoly over its citizens, in whatever way it chooses, and is allowed, to impose its will."

[Seikou-Kishi]

Latest one happened today, to me.

Make that twice in a row.

Even though the comment I made had no nick attached to it (for anyone to be offended), nor the words I used, the post got removed nonetheless.

What the hell is wrong with you people?

You know why your post was removed. You insist that it wasn't offensive, but the moderators' duty is to determine when something is offensive and remove it or edit it accordingly. You will not find it different elsewhere. Anarchy is not a workable model for a forum.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


I offend people from around the world with almost everything I write...

but I do it with style... :heh:

There's nothing quite like being cosmopolitan, eh? :P

[MariaDine]

The fact that there is a thread about this theme should be a clue.
Namasté

[Seikou-Kishi]

The fact that there is a thread about this theme should be a clue.
Namasté

The fact that the thread is here should tell you it's unfounded.

[OnyxKnight]

You know why your post was removed. You insist that it wasn't offensive, but the moderators' duty is to determine when something is offensive and remove it or edit it accordingly.

What happens when I say something in the future and its interpreted in a way I have not even imagined it could be and I get a 'fine' for it? Three strikes and you're out?

You removed the post because YOU thought it was offensive or that I meant to offend somebody (both of which are incorrect, and only your own assumptions).

I'm the only one who knows what he means when he posts something. All you can ever do is interpret it, and assume things about it accordingly.

So many people have suffered because of your poor interpretation of things. One being the original starter of this thread.


You will not find it different elsewhere

The reason I joined Avalon was because I thought it was a place different than all the rest out there. Thanks for confirming a lot of things that I suspected about this place.

[buckminster fuller]

The fact that there is a thread about this theme should be a clue.
Namasté

The fact that the thread is here should tell you it's unfounded.

Well, that is being really political to view it this way. Don't we all live in a democracy, don't we see everyday our sovereignty and freedom of speech praised and enforced by our governments ?

Politics, in a forum or on tv, really is about postures and rethoric. The fact that this thread is there doesn't at all prove that there is no censorship being done.
It could be two things :

A) There is genuinely no censorship being done here in avalon. Yet it's possible to observe otherwise.

B) In order to maintain credibility, this thread is allowed to get on, still, as soon as someone posts something that does contribute but not in the ways that are expected, a handful of mods pops in and dissuade others to get involved.

Not sure which way to go.

Peace

[Seikou-Kishi]

What happens when I say something in the future and its interpreted in a way I have not even imagined it could be and I get a 'fine' for it? Three strikes and you're out?

Nope, not three strikes and you're out at all. We are usually pleased to accept a genuine mistake.



You removed the post because YOU thought it was offensive or that I meant to offend somebody (both of which are incorrect, and only your own assumptions).

Yes, we removed it because we thought it offensive. That's what moderators do. Moderators decide what is acceptable language and what isn't. I've had my posts moderated before because I've said things that the moderators considered unacceptable (and I usually agreed with them that I'd said something in the heat of the moment). That hasn't changed since I've become a mod, I still say stuff I shouldn't (or usually I say something acceptable in a less acceptable way). You need to learn the difference between moderation and censorship. It is our job to decide what is acceptable.



I'm the only one who knows what he means when he posts something. All you can ever do is interpret it, and assume things about it accordingly.

Yes, you're right. You are the only one who really knows what you mean when you say something. Everybody but you has to guess, moderators and the intended reader included. If the moderators can consider something would be offensive, so might the intended reader.



So many people have suffered because of your poor interpretation of things. One being the original starter of this thread.

You're free to join him. Please, don't let me stop you. Exercise your liberty instead of clamouring after it.



The reason I joined Avalon was because I thought it was a place different than all the rest out there. Thanks for confirming a lot of things that I suspected about this place.
It is different than everywhere else. It is not a wild west saloon though, we have rules and if you don't like them you know where the door is. If, however, you think you might be puffing and panting over nothing, you're free to calm down and join in.


B) In order to maintain credibility, this thread is allowed to get on, still, as soon as someone posts something that does contribute but not in the ways that are expected, a handful of mods pops in and dissuade others to get involved.


That's perfectly possible. Do you feel it's true? I cannot take seriously anybody who believes they have been censored. If somebody finds the rules here are not to their liking, I would remind them that they are not here against their will, and we do not have a monopoly on the world — it's not that they can't leave. So I say to you all if you dislike it, put your money where your mouth is and leave the rest of us to do what Avalon does best.

[Rocky_Shorz]

Latest one happened today, to me.

Make that twice in a row.

Even though the comment I made had no nick attached to it (for anyone to be offended), nor the words I used, the post got removed nonetheless.

What the hell is wrong with you people?

let me guess...

we're human?

[OnyxKnight]

If there is really nothing out of the ordinary going on here, regarding the whole 'censorship' thing - why don't you accept Chico's proposal and let us (the forum population) evaluate your work.

If you have any honor and integrity, and you feel like you have been accused of something that is not true, then go ahead, let us voice our thoughts on your work, and see if you were right, and some of us wrong (I'd accept if I was wrong about it).


let me guess...

we're human?

Thank you very much.

[Donna O]

If there is really nothing out of the ordinary going on here, regarding the whole 'censorship' thing - why don't you accept Chico's proposal and let us (the forum population) evaluate your work.

If you have any honor and integrity, and you feel like you have been accused of something that is not true, then go ahead, let us voice our thoughts on your work, and see if you were right, and some of us wrong (I'd accept if I was wrong about it).


let me guess...

we're human?

Thank you very much.

Who are 'us' and what work do you want to evaluate? The fact that we remove very few posts out of the hundreds that are posted here daily? The fact that most of the time the removed posts contain something insulting to someone and any good forum would wish to maintain decorum and polite debate. Do you want to check how we help people place links or how we tidy up the forum to make it a more efficient place to use?

You are making a mountain out of a molehill and I believe you know this. I would have thought these kinds of petty accusations were not on your radar as I have always viewed you as a valuable and informative member.

[Fred Steeves]

This thread is starting to remind me of a song we used to sing as young school children going on field trips. Remember all you other old farts out there? "the wheels on the bus go round and round, round and round, round and round", and on and on ad nauseum.

But don't let me spoil the field trip.

Cheers,
Fred S.

[Lord Sidious]

If there is really nothing out of the ordinary going on here, regarding the whole 'censorship' thing - why don't you accept Chico's proposal and let us (the forum population) evaluate your work.

If you have any honor and integrity, and you feel like you have been accused of something that is not true, then go ahead, let us voice our thoughts on your work, and see if you were right, and some of us wrong (I'd accept if I was wrong about it).

Why would you post this, KNOWING that it is never going to happen?
And the second line is a huge insult to the entire staff.
If I had a banstick, you would have got 30 days in the gulag on the spot for that, so you should thank these guys that they have more restraint than me.
The amount of s**t the mods here take, yet don't give it back is worthy of some respect, surely?
I have spoken to most of them and I find them to be great choices by bill to be on staff.

[OnyxKnight]

Since we seem to be on a roll here - Anyone else that would like to stab me in the back? Since man is down, you might as well do it

The reaction of some people here ... if I could sum it up in one word - unexpected. This is nothing compared with my inbox.

I guess when you get too close to the beehive, you risk getting stung.

I appreciate all your take on this, you are just building a better picture for me of this place.

Thank you.

[Dorok]

I appreciate all your take on this, you are just building a better picture for me of this place.

Thank you.

It could be that this place is only what you make of it, and from this thread (and this thread only IMO) you are making a mess.

[Anno]

You guys must be bored. Boredom leads to politics and its slightly backward cousin; beuracracy. From that we get parties and the problem with parties is that they have guest lists. If you're name's not down...

I value everybody's input because I believe no one person can ever hold the whole truth. If you did, I imagine you'd vanish into a poof of smoke and re-appear on the next level of the game. Truth has to be shared out between us and although some of us hold less than others, we all have some.

If I don't like someone or what they say, I don't ignore them (as this would mean I could miss some truth) I just don't reference them. I don't speak to them, I don't bait them. I definitely don't argue with them. All of that just leads to entropy. I just let them be. That way I can benefit from when some truth appears as I get another peice of the puzzle.

It's not that hard to do. =]

[Leprechaun]

The amount of s**t the mods here take, yet don't give it back is worthy of some respect, surely?
I have spoken to most of them and I find them to be great choices by bill to be on staff.

My Lord, I agree the mods Do I deed deserve respect, I think it is sometime forgotten how much is given by the behind the scenes guys and gals so that we the users have a forum that we can give our opinions. *bows respectfully*

That we are able to air differences of opinion is good, how we choose to respond having exercised our gift of discernment IMHO dictates what we learn, both in this lifetime, and as an eternal soul on a journey

[Leprechaun]

Re: Censorship here?
You guys must be bored. Boredom leads to politics and its slightly backward cousin; beuracracy. From that we get parties and the problem with parties is that they have guest lists. If you're name's not down...

I value everybody's input because I believe no one person can ever hold the whole truth. If you did, I imagine you'd vanish into a poof of smoke and re-appear on the next level of the game. Truth has to be shared out between us and although some of us hold less than others, we all have some.

If I don't like someone or what they say, I don't ignore them (as this would mean I could miss some truth) I just don't reference them. I don't speak to them, I don't bait them. I definitely don't argue with them. All of that just leads to entropy. I just let them be. That way I can benefit from when some truth appears as I get another peice of the puzzle.

It's not that hard to do. =]


Well said Anno

[ThePythonicCow]

I removed the previous post of this thread. It was too much a personal attack.

[Lord Sidious]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UP1mXrr38Oc
Ofra Haza to the rescue, yet again.

[Newlyn]

I have a question to moderators.

What does it mean being "not in line with the energy of the forum"? The word energy is to begin with very difficult and not so clear.

I mean, if I feel something is wrong, I want to discuss it, adress it and if possible make possitive change or realize something new, is that not in alignment with the forum?

If somone is contributing on the forum a lot, giving good information and so on, THAT is in alignment with the forum, yes? But if the same person complains loudly and feel that some aspects is very wrong, is that enough for kicking this person out? Is critizising not in alignment with the energy of the forum? Or if you don´t like the members style, is that enough? Sometimes we learn love the best with people we don´t like.

Sometimes I get confused by the way people get canceled from the forum. My fear is that people start to get afraid of having their membership cancelled for just saying what they think. If people on this wonderful forum get afraid of who to not question, what to not complain about, what side to take in a discussion, and so on, it´s very dangerous and does not go along with the goal of this forum, I think. I hope I´m not wrong on this one.

But I stay very humble in this, because I don´t see all the process behind cancelling someones account, I don´t have access to all the P.Ms and don´t know all people here.

Blessings!

[buffski]

I echo that sentiment Newlyn

[norman]

Sometimes we learn love the best with people we don´t like.

Blessings!

Whaw!

Where did you get that line from?

Or did it just pop off the top of your head?

[Fred Steeves]

There is a line that shouldn't be crossed, and we all (should) know where it is.


Cheers,
Fred

[Lettherebelight]

If a member is offended, annoyed, harrassed, etc. by a post, isn't there a 'report' button they can click to alert someone if they feel the necessity?
Why should a post be banned before anyone reads it?

Now some of us are wondering, what the heck did OnyxKnight (such a interesting and polite forum member) say, for goodness sake?

Also, why shut down a thread which is still active?.. doesn't a thread just get buried after a while as people's interest wanes? I thought it was up to the person who started the thread to request its closure... although I can understand, if things are really getting off the wall..

[Lettherebelight]

Sometimes we learn love the best with people we don´t like.

Blessings!

Whaw!

Where did you get that line from?

Or did it just pop off the top of your head?


Yes..I've heard this adage before...only phrased something like..

'My enemy is my best friend, because they will not hesitate to tell me where I'm wrong'.

There's also another old one from India..

'Too much devotion is the sign of a thief.'.....(meaning watch out for yes men)

[greybeard]

Off topic but in the vein of the last post

"Your brother your Killer"
(That which brings you pleasure brings you pain)

C

[GCS1103]

OnyxKnight- I am relatively new to this forum and it is the only one I have ever joined or posted on. I cannot comment on what is happening behind the scenes and, even if I knew what was happening, I wouldn't comment. I really have no interest in anything else here but to learn and enjoy some of information and posts of the members. That being said, I am one humble member who has thoroughly enjoyed your threads and thank you for all the time you have taken to answer questions from some of us. I sincerely hope that I can look forward to more interesting discussions on the knowledge that you possess.

Goldie

[Seikou-Kishi]

If a member is offended, annoyed, harrassed, etc. by a post, isn't there a 'report' button they can click to alert someone if they feel the necessity?
Why should a post be banned before anyone reads it?

That's exactly what does happen.

[Newlyn]

Sometimes we learn love the best with people we don´t like.

Blessings!

Whaw!

Where did you get that line from?

Or did it just pop off the top of your head?

Well call it life experience, the best school there is.

The persons that disturbs you are your precious teachers.
The people you love are a mirror of what you allready have accomplished.
The ones you don't like are your test and challange, they show you things about your inner self you don't want to see.
The hard times are gifts to be thankful for, this is your moments to use your strength and develop.
The nice times are your paycheck.

It's a bit to easy to show and share love only with the people who are just like you :)

All the best

[Newlyn]

The mods don´t want to answer my question?

[Mad Hatter]

319 replies and some 11,000 plus views and still no solution!!

Seems as though...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fuDDqU6n4o&feature=related

:bowl::bowl::bowl::bowl::bowl:

[Fred Steeves]

fnupL42gmF4

Cheers,
Fred

[Isthatso]

I agree with Dorok....this place is only what you make of it.

[andywight]

fnupL42gmF4

Cheers,
Fred

Thanks Mr Fred S, is good to see members trying to keep this thread alive and on the first page, I had almost forgotten it was still here.

So! lets try and figure out why this post was edited:


Chico, hope you don't mind me posting this here, PM me if you want me to delete.


== Post edited ,please abstain from qouting posts from other forums ==

THANKS


But! this post quoting from the same forum, was not:


Followed the link to Nexus that was posted earlier to read what Chico had to say...Seems Nexus is having 'misalignment' problems of its own. http://nexus.2012info.ca/forum/search.php?do=getdaily

"vBulletin Message
I did not start this forum to be a nest of mudslinging and name calling.

Take a breath, step back and rethink what you want to do here

Once I reopen the forum, If you cannot self moderate, we will do it for you. Call it control or censorship if you want to, I call it maintaining decorum and decency. From here on the bull**** stops.


Peace."



:cool:

[andywight]

Hi Dennis, Paul and Ilie, I Feel like Brian from the Monty Python movie! and you guys guys are waiting for my next revelation. ;)

Post edit: those reading this at a latter date, it's just the four of us here presently on this thread.

[Ilie Pandia]

* Chico's negativity is not welcome
* andywight's repeated efforts to quote Chico here not welcome
* multiple warnings given
* andywight's complaints when we stop his quoting efforts not welcome

[Ilie Pandia]

Oh well.... :to_pick_ones_nose:

PS: I want to get to 1,500 Thanks by the end of this month... so any help would be highly appreciated! (Thanks a bunch!) :rolleyes:

And now the conclusion:

Thank you all for your Thanks! 1500 just before the end of the month! Yay!

:cool:

[truthseekerdan]

Oh well.... :to_pick_ones_nose:

PS: I want to get to 1,500 Thanks by the end of this month... so any help would be highly appreciated! (Thanks a bunch!) :rolleyes:

And now the conclusion:

Thank you all for your Thanks! 1500 just before the end of the month! Yay!

:cool:

You must be proud of your promotion, Ilie... ;)

Sanatate si numai bine

[manny]

who are the powers that be.

what do they mean to YOU.

IMO the ptb are they who want to rule.
you have no equal say.
you will listen and learn what they want you to.
if you have a voice ,then you are either a troublemaker,a anarchist, or a free spirit.

you may find you are shut up,silenced,removed or banned,or just not heard.

TPTB operate on many levels.

we are on a forum that wants to expose the truth,that TPTB have been keeping from us.
to speak what you mean is not a crime.
we are all self-seeking the same goal.

stop...edit....edit...moved to suite....removed..

please stop closing threads as and when it suites your personal preference.

we all have a right to say what we think.

as in all discussions everyone has a different view.everyone may learn by it.

[christian]

"TPTB" is used as a label for those who consider themselves the controllers over others here on earth.

If you take it literally, the powers that be, there is actually only one power that is: Love.

[manny]

"TPTB" is used as a label for those who consider themselves the controllers over others here on earth.

If you take it literally, the powers that be, there is actually only one power that is: Love.
nicely put.
would you censor someone who may have something to say?
or would you listen and advice,.

[Fred Steeves]

who are the powers that be.

what do they mean to YOU.



They're likely some of us whom back through the mist of time learned the lesson of Service To Others the long and hard way. Now we are forced to face the enemy, and of course the enemy is ourselves. Tough nut to chew that one.


Cheers,
Fred

[christian]

would you censor someone who may have something to say?
or would you listen and advice,.

Depending on the actual something, maybe both.

If I was a mod and would consider a post merely as spamming, harassing or so I would of course interfere. Then I would privately talk with the person to clarify the issue.

It may be a good idea to have a public section just for the debate concerning these issues, so threads can be closed and so on when it seems appropriate and you can still talk about it. Of course this section would be a tough place, but still decent, I hope. I guess that's what the "Censorship here" thread is for, but there's merely vague talk about ideals of how things should be I figure, I can hardly find nuts and bolts there, but I also failed to notice the actual bones of contention.

[aranuk]

who are the powers that be.

what do they mean to YOU.

IMO the ptb are they who want to rule.
you have no equal say.
you will listen and learn what they want you to.
if you have a voice ,then you are either a troublemaker,a anarchist, or a free spirit.

you may find you are shut up,silenced,removed or banned,or just not heard.

TPTB operate on many levels.

we are on a forum that wants to expose the truth,that TPTB have been keeping from us.
to speak what you mean is not a crime.
we are all self-seeking the same goal.

stop...edit....edit...moved to suite....removed..

please stop closing threads as and when it suites your personal preference.

we all have a right to say what we think.

as in all discussions everyone has a different view.everyone may learn by it.

Manny what on earth are you referring to?

Stan

[The One]

These set of individuals are tptb through and through

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?15040-G8-Bilderberg-and-the-Trilateral-Commission-who-are-they

[SKIBADABOMSKI]

But they are only in charge of whats under them and that can change. They also have bosses and those bosses have bosses ect ect until we surpass our custodians and the custodians bosses and eventually we hit a mass of energy thats like THE BOSS because it's everything and then maybe just maybe that mass of energy is a part of trillions of the same masses and therefor there is a boss of all that and that boss is part of a huge empire thats the ultimate empire of the universe and it's pure mass. Like the other masses aren't pedigree masses but the pure pedigree masses have an impossible to describe because it's the mass that started everything mass and that mass is the boss. But that pure impossible to describe mass has to take orders from ....

THUD !!! zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[aranuk]

Dear The one I know who the tptb are. Manny is referring to Avalon I guess. But why?

Stan

[Heartsong]

who are the powers that be.

what do they mean to YOU.

IMO the ptb are they who want to rule.
you have no equal say.
you will listen and learn what they want you to.
if you have a voice ,then you are either a troublemaker,a anarchist, or a free spirit.

you may find you are shut up,silenced,removed or banned,or just not heard.

TPTB operate on many levels.

we are on a forum that wants to expose the truth,that TPTB have been keeping from us.
to speak what you mean is not a crime.
we are all self-seeking the same goal.

stop...edit....edit...moved to suite....removed..

please stop closing threads as and when it suites your personal preference.

we all have a right to say what we think.

as in all discussions everyone has a different view.everyone may learn by it.

So what initially put your knickers in a knot, Manny. Sounds like you're close to a breaking point over an injustice.....

[ThePythonicCow]

The last few posts above originated in a separate thread called "Tptb". That thread has been merged into this Censorship thread.

The "Tptb" thread, once again, attempted to arouse anger against the tyranny, censorship and abuse of TPTB ... and then transfer that anger to any actions of the alternative media to moderate their own forums.

TPTB are tyrannical censors.
Censorship is evil - feel your wrath.
Any action to moderate a forum is Censorship.
Feel your wrath against any moderated forum.

This is FALSE logic. The word "censorship" is loaded with negative emotions (associations with TPTB) and then by labeling other actions as censorship, those negative emotions are transferred.

This is one of the mechanisms by which TPTB are trying to get us to destroy ourselves, with bickering, infighting, and distrust, within and between forums.

Notice how manny started off the first post, now above, of his "Tptb" thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?21793-Tptb&p=233175&viewfull=1#post233175) ranting against TPTB, and then segued into directly implying that forum moderation was censorship:


please stop closing threads as and when it suites your personal preference.

The topic of that "Tptb" thread was just a continuation of this Censorship thread, so we have merged that "Tptb" thread into here.

There is absolutely an essential role for forum moderation. Unmoderated forums quickly degenerate into useless noise.

Level headed discussions of what and when to moderate are useful.

But "guilt by association" of any moderation with the evil censorship of the Tyrannical Powers That Be (TPTB) is a tool for our destruction, nor for our betterment.

[The One]

And now for a bit of calm

Goose Fra Ba

[loveandgratitude]

Some clues here about what is stirring people up - ie. CENSORSHIP and TPTB

- follow the bread crumbs over the road and around the corner, over the railway tracks to the other side of town.

http://www.research.utoronto.ca/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/clues.jpg
http://bookmobiles.utah.gov/tricounty/images/FootprintS.jpg
http://www.childlikecreations.com/images/followClues_boxTop.jpg

[OnyxKnight]

* andywight's repeated efforts to quote Chico here not welcome

You do know that quoting members who are no longer active on the forum (inactive, retired, banned etc), being a reason to censor, cut-paste, edit, or just erase posts (maybe even ban those who quoted that person) is just a characteristic present in this forum only?

While I do see qualities in this forum that no other forum has, this trait is definitely not one of those characteristics that separates this forum from the rest in a positive way. Quite the opposite if you ask me.

What's the deal with that? Care to explain?

And since I'm already here, I want to ask another question, that I'm still left with no answer to.

Can you explain to me Paul's removal of my post concerning my opinion on 'Charles/Atticus' as a separate thread, and then closing it, so I cannot post anymore on it, nor could any other Avalon members?

Would be nice for Paul to answer, but I guess I have to ask all the mods, as you all must have participated.

The rest of my posts in the thread (where I discussed 'Charles' and my take on it) where I originally posted my comments got erased as a result (being allegedly off-topic).

Since you moderators discuss things before you decide on them, I'd like to know how was it possible for so many to arrive to a (IMO) very ridiculous decision?

The only time I have had problems with you people (from all the time that I have been following you as a community, and later, when I started posting), is recent, very recent, and it always has to do with my critique of certain things of this forum (which can be improved), and of course, the bigger issue - 'Charles'.

Why is it I always get in trouble when talking about him? Its a reoccurring theme, and it seems a lot of people have noticed this, but they only talk to me about it in private. I guess they are afraid of supporting me here, on the open, for some ... odd ... reason.

[Seikou-Kishi]

Quite the opposite if you ask me.

Well, now you mention it...

[OnyxKnight]

Quite the opposite if you ask me.

Well, now you mention it...

Yes, I felt like I had to. Any comments on the rest?

[Seikou-Kishi]

You say "care to explain" as though you're actually open to an explanation. You're not, you just want to argue.

[OnyxKnight]

You say "care to explain" as though you're actually open to an explanation. You're not, you just want to argue.

Let me guess, this is a courtesy of your skilled interpretation as a moderator (in training)?

You all sound alike. Is anyone actually taking me seriously on this? Especially the last post?

If you don't provide an explanation then I will just assume you are evading the subject altogether. Confirming my suspicions.

[Seikou-Kishi]

No, Onyx, this is my conclusion based on all precedent.

I see, so I either pander to your petulant behaviour or confirm your paranoia? I really can't be bothered with you. If you have such serious concerns, leave. I don't understand what you all get from hanging around flogging your dead horses.

[Lord Sidious]

You say "care to explain" as though you're actually open to an explanation. You're not, you just want to argue.

Let me guess, this is a courtesy of your skilled interpretation as a moderator (in training)?

You all sound alike. Is anyone actually taking me seriously on this? Especially the last post?

If you don't provide an explanation then I will just assume you are evading the subject altogether. Confirming my suspicions.

I am with Oliver, you just wanna stir.
If you had approached them with some respect, they might treat you with some.
But approach them with arrogance and you might get an answer you didn't want.

[Seikou-Kishi]

The thing is Sid, if he had genuine concerns he could contact any moderator or administrator and any of us would be happy to talk them through with him, but he doesn't want to do that. He doesn't seek resolution, only conflict, and that he seeks to do it all out in the open tells me it's all for show.


Edit:

Hindsight's a wonderful thing. I want to thank everybody who took part in what happened here. We all showed that we can shake off the negative and be rational, positive and constructive people. :-)

[Flash]

You say "care to explain" as though you're actually open to an explanation. You're not, you just want to argue.

Oliver, I do not interject on this thread usually although I don't like censorship. I do like clean up however. To tell you the truth, it is hard to follow some of the posts here and I truly don't know if it is because some posts have been erased/corrected or not.

Anyhow,
I just wanted to write to you about your comment above. I could have genuinely said the same thing "care to explain" meaning it gently, not understandiing that in usual American/Canadian English language (don not know about British) it often has a sarcastic or negative undertone when asked that way.

I am not sure at all that Oxynight, who masters the English language quite well but not perfectly, and most importantly who has not live in an English speaking country, in order to be able to catch these inuendos of the language. I would not have caught it myself only 10 years ago (I think that lots of misunderstanding as well between French and English here in Canada for example, stems from inuendos based on cultural or language differences, I see it almost daily).

I may be wrong, but I certainly would give the benefice of the doubt and assume positive intention not to err in a damaging way against someone.

My humble opinion.

[Lord Sidious]

The thing is Sid, if he had genuine concerns he could contact any moderator or administrator and any of us would be happy to talk them through with him, but he doesn't want to do that. He doesn't seek resolution, only conflict, and that he seeks to do it all out in the open tells me it's all for show.

Oh, you know and I know, he thinks he can fool most of the rest.
This is the game he plays here.

[ulli]

Onyx, in my opinion what is happening here and which distinguishes Avalon from other moderated forums
is an experiment in non-duality attitude.
Something extraordinary happens when individuals refrain from expressing negative emotions
Even though their minds are bursting with the need to do this yet something inside that is still higher than the mind
does not allow it. At first the mind rebels, later becomes bored, and finally concedes and as it steps out of the game
there is a void and this is a scary moment, it feels like one is about to faint....
And yet...within seconds a new download begins....
Completely different from all previous experiences...
Lucky are those who can even at this point maintain the mind out of the way as it's interference puts a stop to the download process...
All I can say is trust me on this...what happens beyond this point is for your eyes only...
All your grievances will melt away

[Seikou-Kishi]

You say "care to explain" as though you're actually open to an explanation. You're not, you just want to argue.

Oliver, I do not interject on this thread usually although I don't like censorship. I do like clean up however. To tell you the truth, it is hard to follow some of the posts here and I truly don't know if it is because some posts have been erased/corrected or not.

Anyhow,
I just wanted to write to you about your comment above. I could have genuinely said the same thing "care to explain" meaning it gently, not understandiing that in usual American/Canadian English language (don not know about British) it often has a sarcastic or negative undertone when asked that way.

I am not sure at all that Oxynight, who masters the English language quite well but not perfectly, and most importantly who has not live in an English speaking country, in order to be able to catch these inuendos of the language. I would not have caught it myself only 10 years ago (I think that lots of misunderstanding as well between French and English here in Canada for example, stems from inuendos based on cultural or language differences, I see it almost daily).

I may be wrong, but I certainly would give the benefice of the doubt and assume positive intention not to err in a damaging way against someone.

My humble opinion.

Flash, it speaks to your good nature that you only ever intervene in defence of somebody. It is possible that you are right, but over time the accumulation of evidence all the more surely says that it is not simply an issue of language.

[OnyxKnight]

You say "care to explain" as though you're actually open to an explanation. You're not, you just want to argue.

Let me guess, this is a courtesy of your skilled interpretation as a moderator (in training)?

You all sound alike. Is anyone actually taking me seriously on this? Especially the last post?

If you don't provide an explanation then I will just assume you are evading the subject altogether. Confirming my suspicions.

I am with Oliver, you just wanna stir.
If you had approached them with some respect, they might treat you with some.
But approach them with arrogance and you might get an answer you didn't want.

I'm always respectful. Find anyone else who feels different about me and has communicated with me, other than yourself and mods.

I asked a serious question, on an unresolved issue, that I had ask for an answer long time ago, when the action has been made. If you bothered to look, you would see that its exactly that way.

Neither Paul, nor anyone else from the mod team explained to me the decision for that action. I think I deserve it, regardless of their own opinion of me as a person. They do have a mod obligation for it.


No, Onyx, this is my conclusion based on all precedent.

I see, so I either pander to your petulant behaviour or confirm your paranoia? I really can't be bothered with you. If you have such serious concerns, leave. I don't understand what you all get from hanging around flogging your dead horses.

What's wrong with my behavior?

Asking questions?

Then yes, I will continue with that behavior, as that's how I have always been. But the only time this was looked upon as a negative behavior was when I critiqued the forum for certain things and a specific person - 'Charles'.

You are a grown man, I think you should understand well the difference between criticism, and a personal opinion, to an erratic behavior resulting with insulting posts on everything and everyone involved with this forum.

Like I said, I have my suspicions, and in time you will only confirm them or put them to rest. And there are reasons behind them. The timing when the mods started calling out my "troubling behavior" and when I expressed my critical views on the forum, and my personal view of 'Charles'.

And I have been nothing but respectful with my expression of views here. If you find it offensive that there are people who like to critique the forum, or have some sort of difference of an opinion, and a certain view of another person (who is supposed to be just another fellow member), then what are you doing here running a forum? You would be better off creating an Avalon fanclub or something, where everyone has almost an identical view of things.

And I'm not "getting at" anything here. For the thousandth time, I want answers to my questions.

[Flash]

You say "care to explain" as though you're actually open to an explanation. You're not, you just want to argue.

Oliver, I do not interject on this thread usually although I don't like censorship. I do like clean up however. To tell you the truth, it is hard to follow some of the posts here and I truly don't know if it is because some posts have been erased/corrected or not.

Anyhow,
I just wanted to write to you about your comment above. I could have genuinely said the same thing "care to explain" meaning it gently, not understandiing that in usual American/Canadian English language (don not know about British) it often has a sarcastic or negative undertone when asked that way.

I am not sure at all that Oxynight, who masters the English language quite well but not perfectly, and most importantly who has not live in an English speaking country, in order to be able to catch these inuendos of the language. I would not have caught it myself only 10 years ago (I think that lots of misunderstanding as well between French and English here in Canada for example, stems from inuendos based on cultural or language differences, I see it almost daily).

I may be wrong, but I certainly would give the benefice of the doubt and assume positive intention not to err in a damaging way against someone.

My humble opinion.

Flash, it speaks to your good nature that you only ever intervene in defence of somebody. It is possible that you are right, but over time the accumulation of evidence all the more surely says that it is not simply an issue of language.

Oliver and the mods team, give Oxynight the benefice of the doubt, I am telling you, it will go a long way, positively. And do answer without defending.

It is my experience with Eastern Europeans that they will often seem argumentative when in facts they are not, it is not their intent. Do not forget here that we are with ex-USSR people who had to constantly ponder and examine whatever authorities were doing because you could be knacked out (I mean Siberia). When they finally talk, they do examine in detail what you do and ask to prove yourself to make sure that you are genuine.

I have seen it times and times again, and I work with a very large business pool of a lot of people. When with Eastern Europeans, I expect to be challenged. If I answer genuinely, with some tease even, they will appreciate me forever and then 2 ways conversations and very interesting worthwile exchanges goes on.

The last one was when I told a group that I worked in Mexico, I had the Eastern European, in the elevator going to lunch, quite unexpectedly, starts speaking a broken spanish with me (which was not ask for in the given situation). I just laughed and said in Spanish "you are testing me hey? Well you missed". He laughed and the rest of the time was extremely productive.

Don't defend though, it proves you have something to hide. Just be genuine and accept the challenge, gently, just answering questions. It goes a long way believe me. I have work with thousands or people from all nationalities, believe me, this attitude goes a long way.

[OnyxKnight]

Oh, you know and I know, he thinks he can fool most of the rest.
This is the game he plays here.

No, you don't know. That's the thing. You both base your conclusions on nothing.


Oliver and the mods team, give Oxynight the benefice of the doubt, I am telling you, it will go a long way, positively. And do answer without defending.

Thank you for the understanding, I really appreciate it.

[Lord Sidious]

You say "care to explain" as though you're actually open to an explanation. You're not, you just want to argue.

Let me guess, this is a courtesy of your skilled interpretation as a moderator (in training)?

You all sound alike. Is anyone actually taking me seriously on this? Especially the last post?

If you don't provide an explanation then I will just assume you are evading the subject altogether. Confirming my suspicions.

I am with Oliver, you just wanna stir.
If you had approached them with some respect, they might treat you with some.
But approach them with arrogance and you might get an answer you didn't want.

I'm always respectful. Find anyone else who feels different about me and has communicated with me, other than yourself and mods.

I asked a serious question, on an unresolved issue, that I had ask for an answer long time ago, when the action has been made. If you bothered to look, you would see that its exactly that way.

Neither Paul, nor anyone else from the mod team explained to me the decision for that action. I think I deserve it, regardless of their own opinion of me as a person. They do have a mod obligation for it.


No, Onyx, this is my conclusion based on all precedent.

I see, so I either pander to your petulant behaviour or confirm your paranoia? I really can't be bothered with you. If you have such serious concerns, leave. I don't understand what you all get from hanging around flogging your dead horses.

What's wrong with my behavior?

Asking questions?

Then yes, I will continue with that behavior, as that's how I have always been. But the only time this was looked upon as a negative behavior was when I critiqued the forum for certain things and a specific person - 'Charles'.

You are a grown man, I think you should understand well the difference between criticism, and a personal opinion, to an erratic behavior resulting with insulting posts on everything and everyone involved with this forum.

Like I said, I have my suspicions, and in time you will only confirm them or put them to rest. And there are reasons behind them. The timing when the mods started calling out my "troubling behavior" and when I expressed my critical views on the forum, and my personal view of 'Charles'.

And I have been nothing but respectful with my expression of views here. If you find it offensive that there are people who like to critique the forum, or have some sort of difference of an opinion, and a certain view of another person (who is supposed to be just another fellow member), then what are you doing here running a forum? You would be better off creating an Avalon fanclub or something, where everyone has almost an identical view of things.

And I'm not "getting at" anything here. For the thousandth time, I want answers to my questions.

Would James Horak think you are respectful?
I don't, you have never shown me that side of you.

==Edit note: personal remarks are not usefull and have been removed ==

[OnyxKnight]

Would James Horak think you are respectful?
I don't, you have never shown me that side of you.
All I have seen is the arrogant, boastful side of you as you discuss a topic that is completely 100% subjective.

I asked him questions he was unable/unwilling to give an answer to.

He only said, read my stuff, watch my videos. Again, the same problem I have with a lot of people (baseless assumptions). He assumed I had not read his material, when in fact the questions produced were exactly after I went through some "checking".

Like I said, if people have a problem with me asking questions, that's their problem, and theirs alone.

I don't mind being questioned, or being asked questions - in fact I always encourage that, as you can see through my threads.

I really don't understand what your personal problem is with me, but I guess is because I teased you about your pride being Caucasian and all, a bit more than the average person. If that's the case, can we please bury the axe and start anew?

I'm tired of all the negativity (I get it enough from everyday life), and I didn't come here to make "enemies".

[Seikou-Kishi]

Onyx, we're going to have to start with a simple, basic agreement. When you ask a question and I give you an answer, you do not continue to ask the same question insisting on an answer you might like better. It is not my duty to pander to you, and you are quite old enough to know that sometimes the cookie doesn't crumble in your favour. When you ask a question and I give you an answer, that is the answer. Complaining will not change my answer.

I told you your comment was removed on Charles' thread because it was considered, by the team of moderators (not one of us alone; we deliberate on all our actions together), to be offensive. Saying "in your opinion (i.e., mine/ours)" is redundant, that's exactly what our opinions are for — moderating the forum.

When it comes to moderators ignoring you, try PMing any of us and we'll always reply. In fact, we'll be much more willing to entertain what you say for the simple consideration you showed us in contacting us privately; the moderators whom you claim ignored you when you contacted them are no longer moderators or administrators here.

You have your suspicions, Onyx, well that makes two of us. I bet your suspicions are unflattering — I know mine are, but you know, I'd love to be proven wrong.

You say that we all deliberate to determine how we will act in all cases, and you're right, yet you consider our decision ridiculous, I can only hope that other members reading this thread, and maybe even you, will see two things:
Moderators discussing their actions beforehand allows spontaneous, gut-level reactions to be, if you'll pardon the pun, moderated because none of us is able to act on our personal likes and dislikes, and we have to justify our actions to every other moderator, and;
You, as a single person embedded within the disagreement, may be emotionally identifying with a position beyond its merit.


I know, as you've said, you seek to be respectful/polite in your posts, and as Flash said maybe English isn't your first language so I'll just point out "you people" is a rude way of referring to anybody.

Next time you want answers to questions you have, PM us. If we were all sitting around in a room discussing these topics, rather than in a forum, you would calmly and quietly take to one side with somebody to ask them a question, you wouldn't stand up and call them out — not unless you wanted to be confrontational, which you say you don't, and I'll give you the benefit of the doubt in that regard, assuming future events allow that conclusion.


I see you thanked Flash for behooving us to give you the benefit of the doubt. Has it ever occurred to you to give us the benefit of the doubt? I think it hasn't, but, you know, maybe it will in future now you have the idea.

Maybe Eastern Europeans can seem argumentative when they are not. I cannot use OnyxKnight's ethnicity or nationality to inform my opinions because there's no such thing as a European culture, a European ethnicity or a European nationality in any real sense of the terms.

Have I missed anything out?

¤=[Post Update]=¤


If that's the case, can we please bury the axe and start anew?

Can't we all?

[greybeard]

Oliver S
I think that is a very fair, reasonable and astute response.

Chris

[Flash]

Maybe Eastern Europeans can seem argumentative when they are not. I cannot use OnyxKnight's ethnicity or nationality to inform my opinions because there's no such thing as a European culture, a European ethnicity or a European nationality in any real sense of the terms.Have I missed anything out?

¤=[Post Update]=¤


If that's the case, can we please bury the axe and start anew?

Can't we all?

many many thanks Oliver for showing these efforts at understanding and trying to burry the axe. Many thanks for taking into consideration what i said as well. Cela démontre un grand esprit (this shows a great being, i think it translates like this, not sure though, hum....)

I hope Oxynight will demonstrate the same, which i think he started to do in his last post.

But... there is always a but,

the line from your comment that is in bold, which is above is wrong. There is a general group behavior for Eastern European including Russian, and more specificity for Romanians, Hungarians etc (south eastern Europe).

It has been studied, the first one to study it was Hofstede, a Dutch researcher who did his first international mandate on the subject with IBM in the 70's. He found 5 main orientations for cultural differences and map the globe based on that, and it works. Very interesting indeed.

It does eplain in part American behaviors and biaises, French hierarchical ways, Scandinavian social policies, dictatorships, etc.

Of course, you always have grey zones where personnalities and individual tendencies goes over the cultural ones, but not at an intense level.

[Lord Sidious]

Would James Horak think you are respectful?
I don't, you have never shown me that side of you.
All I have seen is the arrogant, boastful side of you as you discuss a topic that is completely 100% subjective.

I asked him questions he was unable/unwilling to give an answer to.

He only said, read my stuff, watch my videos. Again, the same problem I have with a lot of people (baseless assumptions). He assumed I had not read his material, when in fact the questions produced were exactly after I went through some "checking".

Like I said, if people have a problem with me asking questions, that's their problem, and theirs alone.

I don't mind being questioned, or being asked questions - in fact I always encourage that, as you can see through my threads.

I really don't understand what your personal problem is with me, but I guess is because I teased you about your pride being Caucasian and all, a bit more than the average person. If that's the case, can we please bury the axe and start anew?

I'm tired of all the negativity (I get it enough from everyday life), and I didn't come here to make "enemies".

== Edit note: personall attacks on another member are not allowed.message deleted ==

[Seikou-Kishi]

Thank you, Flash. I think you were instrumental in helping us move this far, so I'd just like to express publicly and unequivocally my gratitude for understanding you help bring about.

Ah no, with regard to the European culture, &c., part of my post which you quoted, I meant to say that OnyxKnight's flag is set to the flag of the European Union. As you show, the various cultures of Europe are often drastically different, so I had no way of knowing how to interpret what I saw based on things like being Eastern European/Slavic.


At Lord Sidious: yes, let's all consider it. If we all make an effort to genuinely consider it, we could dispel quite a lot of negativity. Even if we don't completely trust that the other parties to this new deal are genuine, let's be genuine ourselves and risk what? A little time?

[Flash]

Gosh, don't i love you all guys!


From Oliver: Even if we don't completely trust that the other parties to this new deal are genuine, let's be genuine ourselves and risk what? A little time?

Yeah! Yeah!

A little humour: do you see how NOT READY, but reaaaaaally NOT READY, we are to face interaction with out of this world beings - we are barely ready to interact amongst ourselves on the planet.

[Fred Steeves]

I see, so I either pander to your petulant behaviour or confirm your paranoia?

I don't have a dog in this fight, and I try to stay out of other people's business, but Oliver this is twice in a couple of days you've referred to someone's paranoia. This is an odd forum to be throwing the "p" word around.

Cheers,
Fred


Moderator's edit: this quote and comment refer to an earlier stage in the argument, before any concerted effort towards peace had really begun. For that reason, it may be best to let it lie

[ulli]

Gosh, don't i love you all guys!


From Oliver: Even if we don't completely trust that the other parties to this new deal are genuine, let's be genuine ourselves and risk what? A little time?

Yeah! Yeah!

A little humour: do you see how NOT READY, but reaaaaaally NOT READY, we are to face interaction with out of this world beings - we are barely ready to interact amongst ourselves on the planet.

The trick is to let things go even if the other party is not genuine...(maybe we need to define genuine)
And many times what appears to be genuine bahaviour is just cultural, as well...
There are cultures where truth is avoided at all cost and the smoke screen of lies and deceit are still accepted by the majority of the people.
And actually, come to think of it.... in all cultures a question like "and how are you today?" is always answered with a lie.

[OnyxKnight]

the line from your comment that is in bold, which is above is wrong. There is a general group behavior for Eastern European including Russian, and more specificity for Romanians, Hungarians etc (south eastern Europe).


Very interesting...

All the countries you mentioned (including most Slavic countries) are influenced by a specific group of extraterrestrial cultures. So the general behavior found in these parts might actually be exopsyhological influence of some sort?

Very, very interesting. It goes along the things I mentioned in some of my first posts in my contacts thread.


You didn't just ask questions.
You were with him like you were with me, rude, obnxious and arrogant.
Oh and you didn't tease me, you trolled, so be honest.
You try at make me out to be all sorts of things then wanna bury the axe?
Mmmmmmmmmmm.
I will consider it.

You really don't trust me, do you?

Shame, when you are not supposed to take my own comments seriously, you do, and now when I should be taken serious, by you, I'm not lol.

Sorry if I came out that way to you. But since you don't trust me, maybe you would trust another Avalon member?

A while ago, we were talking about things in PMs, and he asked me about an honest opinion of you.

I told him to be quiet about it, as I liked how the character friction between us was, and I found it to be very interesting, but I guess in order to show you I'm not the person you probably think I am - ask Rocky_Shortz, what I really think about you as a person. You might be surprised :).


Onyx, we're going to have to start with a simple, basic agreement. When you ask a question and I give you an answer, you do not continue to ask the same question insisting on an answer you might like better. It is not my duty to pander to you, and you are quite old enough to know that sometimes the cookie doesn't crumble in your favour. When you ask a question and I give you an answer, that is the answer. Complaining will not change my answer.

Alright, agreed. No more problem-solving in threads. Just PMs.

Unless I find a good enough reason to mention a problem in a separate thread to get acquainted with the personal opinions of the said problem, from my fellow Avalon members (I hope you will allow this).


I told you your comment was removed on Charles' thread because it was considered, by the team of moderators (not one of us alone; we deliberate on all our actions together), to be offensive. Saying "in your opinion (i.e., mine/ours)" is redundant, that's exactly what our opinions are for — moderating the forum.

Those who were present in the thread either didn't read the post, or have read it and were confused as to why it was removed. In other words, they didn't find anything offensive in it.

Its not that you removed what I said, that got me upset, but the fact that all mu posts that get removed pertain to basically two issues: forum criticism, and 'Charles'. The latter being a larger issue in my opinion.

Forum criticism I think should be looked upon favorably, because without criticism, this place would not be as good as it is. I know the mods probably work hard on maintaining some kind of order here, and I acknowledge that (If I haven't before, i apologize). But if I didn't care about anything in here, I wouldn't be criticizing at all. I critique, because I wish to make this place better than it is. I believe the rest who critique the forum as well (at least I hope so) are/were doing for the same reason, and that reason alone.

Dissenting voices might not be the most favorable thing for a forum like this, but I think a little tolerance can really change things for the better here. If you have noticed, I have had my disagreements with people who were dissenting voices of Avalon too (so we are definitely not in the "same bunch", if you will, aiming to bring chaos here). I still in the end of the day respect them (most have retired though).

The thing with 'Charles, which is a bigger issue for me is, I don't know why a statement I made about him, is treated in a way that it needs to be modified to such an extent that it is no longer addressible? I'm not referring just to the comment I made on his newest thread, but the things before that I have said about him. I'm just trying to understand things, as for those previous events no explanation was given to me.


the moderators whom you claim ignored you when you contacted them are no longer moderators or administrators here.

I have expressed my confusion regarding that issue on the place where they are present and active now. I still wait for some answers.

But one of the mods that ignored my questions, especially regarding the post I made about 'Charles', that he cut off, and made into a separate, but locked thread, was Paul. As far as I know, he is still a mod here. And I'm guessing he had to consult with all of you before making that decision. So maybe you can provide some details as to why that happened? I mean what's the point in making a separate thread of a post, and then lock it, so nobody can respond? If you have an answer to this one, you can tell me in PM, no need to answer that on this thread.


You have your suspicions, Onyx, well that makes two of us. I bet your suspicions are unflattering — I know mine are, but you know, I'd love to be proven wrong.

Maybe I'm exaggerating, I dunno. I was getting a bad vibe from the forum lately, maybe because I was upset with all the things that transpired at that time.


You say that we all deliberate to determine how we will act in all cases, and you're right, yet you consider our decision ridiculous, I can only hope that other members reading this thread, and maybe even you, will see two things:

Maybe ridiculous is not the best word to describe the action. Maybe illogical (to me).

I don't understand the logic behind removing a post, putting it as a separate thread, and immediately lock it, so nobody can ever respond to it. And not offer an explanation.


I know, as you've said, you seek to be respectful/polite in your posts, and as Flash said maybe English isn't your first language so I'll just point out "you people" is a rude way of referring to anybody.
.....
I see you thanked Flash for behooving us to give you the benefit of the doubt. Has it ever occurred to you to give us the benefit of the doubt? I think it hasn't, but, you know, maybe it will in future now you have the idea.
......
Maybe Eastern Europeans can seem argumentative when they are not. I cannot use OnyxKnight's ethnicity or nationality to inform my opinions because there's no such thing as a European culture, a European ethnicity or a European nationality in any real sense of the terms.

Okay, I'll try to keep that in mind.

And yes, English is not my native language, I try my best to come off as clean, respectful, and understandable as I can be. I'm from Macedonia, deep Southeast Europe. Not sure is its a Slavic thing that gets translated into the manner in which I word my sentences, but in any case, I apologize?


Can't we all?

Yes, I guess :yield:

[OnyxKnight]

Ah no, with regard to the European culture, &c., part of my post which you quoted, I meant to say that OnyxKnight's flag is set to the flag of the European Union. As you show, the various cultures of Europe are often drastically different, so I had no way of knowing how to interpret what I saw based on things like being Eastern European/Slavic.

Any tips on how to remove the flag thing? I put it once, and I can't remove it now...

[Heather2017]

You were with him like you were with me, rude, obnxious and arrogant.
Oh and you didn't tease me, you trolled, so be honest.
You try at make me out to be all sorts of things then wanna bury the axe?
Mmmmmmmmmmm.
I will consider it.

Beloved Avalonians, I have a humble request. When we disagree with each other, could we please focus on what we've observed and how we perceived it while avoiding name calling and assuming we know what someone else intended?

M'lord, thank you for considering OnyxKnight's offer to start anew. You are both men I admire. :peace:

[loveandgratitude]

Having a laugh

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-jqX8K-BCipo/TbW6NcUGV1I/AAAAAAAABEo/VBLrE6NlvYM/s1600/Paranoia.jpg

[Wings]

Any tips on how to remove the flag thing? I put it once, and I can't remove it now...

Got to edit profile .... it's at the very bottom of the page.

[loveandgratitude]

Funny how the universe works - -

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_4gF6YuGUwVM/Snx2Ac6VWbI/AAAAAAAAKvw/H4fzpXZv2RM/s800/paranoia22.jpg

I'll stop now.........I promise

[Flash]

So now you know why the Turkish eye to protect against the bad eye (bad vibes) that can be thrown at you.

http://www.stol.co.uk/crad/villas/images/turkish_eye.jpg

It is part of the overall East European, West Asia, culture.

[OnyxKnight]

Funny how the universe works - -

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_4gF6YuGUwVM/Snx2Ac6VWbI/AAAAAAAAKvw/H4fzpXZv2RM/s800/paranoia22.jpg

I'll stop now.........I promise

LOL

Of course, if we take the personality of the (Biblical) God, your demotivational poster is actually correct. The 'Eye of God', as the Nebula is often called, gets its name for a reason ;).

¤=[Post Update]=¤


So now you know why the Turkish eye to protect against the bad eye (bad vibes) that can be thrown at you.

sorry trying to show you the picrture, no success, wait

It is part of the overall East European, West Asia, culture.

I should get one! :D

[ulli]

So now you know why the Turkish eye to protect against the bad eye (bad vibes) that can be thrown at you.

http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://www.mykonosbeads.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/eye_eemag2.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.mykonosbeads.com/eye-beads.htm&usg=__YngwwRJ0oMV3mQ2UShpFjlq-0EA=&h=260&w=274&sz=10&hl=fr&start=39&zoom=1&tbnid=MkLh_74nxB6ohM:&tbnh=149&tbnw=157&ei=DpnnTZGICYP00gGRmZCWCg&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dturkish%2Beye%26hl%3Dfr%26biw%3D1345%26bih%3D484%26gbv%3D2%26tbm%3Disch&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=275&page=4&ndsp=14&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:39&tx=127&ty=96
It is part of the overall East European, West Asia, culture.

EL OJO...
Jewelry sales of beads with the Turkish eye are worlwide now...rapidly becoming a part of global culture...
Replacing the crucifix as a protective amulet....

Another thought on being watched....there is a tribe in southern Africa who believed all stars in the night sky to be eyes that observed humans...

[OnyxKnight]

So now you know why the Turkish eye to protect against the bad eye (bad vibes) that can be thrown at you.

http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://www.mykonosbeads.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/eye_eemag2.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.mykonosbeads.com/eye-beads.htm&usg=__YngwwRJ0oMV3mQ2UShpFjlq-0EA=&h=260&w=274&sz=10&hl=fr&start=39&zoom=1&tbnid=MkLh_74nxB6ohM:&tbnh=149&tbnw=157&ei=DpnnTZGICYP00gGRmZCWCg&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dturkish%2Beye%26hl%3Dfr%26biw%3D1345%26bih%3D484%26gbv%3D2%26tbm%3Disch&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=275&page=4&ndsp=14&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:39&tx=127&ty=96
It is part of the overall East European, West Asia, culture.

EL OJO...
Jewelry sales of beads with the Turkish eye are worlwide now...rapidly becoming a part of global culture...
Replacing the crucifix as a protective amulet....

Another thought on being watched....there is a tribe in southern Africa who believed all stars in the night sky to be eyes that observed humans...

wow, talking about paranoia.

But in a sense, they are correct :).

There are beings who live on worlds orbiting those stars that know about us and watch us closely ;).

[ulli]

So now you know why the Turkish eye to protect against the bad eye (bad vibes) that can be thrown at you.

http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://www.mykonosbeads.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/eye_eemag2.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.mykonosbeads.com/eye-beads.htm&usg=__YngwwRJ0oMV3mQ2UShpFjlq-0EA=&h=260&w=274&sz=10&hl=fr&start=39&zoom=1&tbnid=MkLh_74nxB6ohM:&tbnh=149&tbnw=157&ei=DpnnTZGICYP00gGRmZCWCg&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dturkish%2Beye%26hl%3Dfr%26biw%3D1345%26bih%3D484%26gbv%3D2%26tbm%3Disch&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=275&page=4&ndsp=14&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:39&tx=127&ty=96
It is part of the overall East European, West Asia, culture.

EL OJO...
Jewelry sales of beads with the Turkish eye are worlwide now...rapidly becoming a part of global culture...
Replacing the crucifix as a protective amulet....

Another thought on being watched....there is a tribe in southern Africa who believed all stars in the night sky to be eyes that observed humans...

wow, talking about paranoia.

But in a sense, they are correct :).

There are beings who live on worlds orbiting those stars that know about us and watch us closely ;).


...and maybe in their world they are breaking a privacy law. Maye only a small group of them are doing this?
Why would they want to look at us with our psychosis, neurosis, addictions, confusions, unless there is some perverse voyeurism at work.
Or could we perhaps have something more to offer, something that would actually enhance their culture to progress further?

[Seikou-Kishi]

Shame, when you are not supposed to take my own comments seriously, you do, and now when I should be taken serious, by you, I'm not lol.

I'm glad we're all starting to see the funny side :-)



Those who were present in the thread either didn't read the post, or have read it and were confused as to why it was removed. In other words, they didn't find anything offensive in it.

There are three reasons we will normally take down a post:
We believe it will cause offence, or is in some other way inappropriate (e.g., scamming or sales-pitching); The post is reported to us using the triangle in the bottom left corner of every post, near the 'thanks' button, and; The original poster wishes to have the post deleted.


In the case of the removed post, 1 & 2 both apply. I deleted a second post of yours, in which you repeated what we had removed in the manner:


All I said was "FIRST WORD" and then "SECOND WORD". What's so wrong with that?

That is an attempt to circumvent the decision of the moderators. It cannot be accepted that when the moderators have decided that a post is offensive, it should reappear again, however slyly.



Its not that you removed what I said, that got me upset, but the fact that all mu posts that get removed pertain to basically two issues: forum criticism, and 'Charles'. The latter being a larger issue in my opinion
As for the former, there are ways and means of doing everything. Normally we will only remove a post or thread about censorship when the poster is, in our opinion, purposely causing division in the Avalon community or making their point in an abrasive manner. Sometimes, though, we just get pig-sick of seeing anything to do with censorship, because actually we work quite hard to give you all a healthy, wholesome and positive atmosphere in which to discuss matters of actual importance.

As for the latter, I cannot allow a post to offend him anymore than I can allow a post to offend anybody else. I would be unprofessional and unsuitable as a moderator if I allowed an insult against a member to stand simply because of who the target was.



Dissenting voices might not be the most favorable thing for a forum like this, but I think a little tolerance can really change things for the better here. If you have noticed, I have had my disagreements with people who were dissenting voices of Avalon too (so we are definitely not in the "same bunch", if you will, aiming to bring chaos here). I still in the end of the day respect them (most have retired though).
Dissenting voices are what make Avalon what it is. This community couldn't exist without disagreement, but I'll use a recent example to illustrate my position: recently the member HumbleJanitor disrupted a thread concerning Obama's birth certificate because he considered it a conversation Avalon shouldn't be having. I told him Avalon will discuss anything, but it will always be a harmonious discussion. I said if he wanted to create a thread discussing how the 'birther' issue was being used as a disctraction, he was free to do so but shouldn't disrupt threads talking about the 'birther' issue itself.

Dissenting voices are prerequisite to any discussion. Some people, though, purposely try to blur the distinction between being a dissenting voice and being hell bent on tearing down the forum and Bill. There are two things that need no dissent: it is presumed when you join Avalon that you join because you appreciate the work of Bill Ryan and Project Avalon, if you find yourself no longer appreciating them, you don't have to stay. You come into the game once it has already started and you accept our rules. You can't then say "I want to change the rules, and if you don't let me, I'm taking your ball home with me".



The thing with 'Charles, which is a bigger issue for me is, I don't know why a statement I made about him, is treated in a way that it needs to be modified to such an extent that it is no longer addressible? I'm not referring just to the comment I made on his newest thread, but the things before that I have said about him. I'm just trying to understand things, as for those previous events no explanation was given to me.

I'm afraid I can't answer that. I don't know to which posts you're referring, but if you wish to dig out the posts and send them to my PM inbox, I will go back through the archives of reported messages to find out the circumstances that lead to the decisions that were taken.



But one of the mods that ignored my questions, especially regarding the post I made about 'Charles', that he cut off, and made into a separate, but locked thread, was Paul. As far as I know, he is still a mod here. And I'm guessing he had to consult with all of you before making that decision. So maybe you can provide some details as to why that happened? I mean what's the point in making a separate thread of a post, and then lock it, so nobody can respond? If you have an answer to this one, you can tell me in PM, no need to answer that on this thread.

Was this recent? I don't remember it, but if you can point me to the post in a PM, I'll go back through the archives for this point as well. One of the rules of conduct when moderating the forum is that when a post is edited or deleted, we consider ourselves bound by courtesy to contact the poster and explain our actions (maybe, holding out the hope that they might see why it was necessary, even if they didn't like it)



Maybe I'm exaggerating, I dunno. I was getting a bad vibe from the forum lately, maybe because I was upset with all the things that transpired at that time.
The bad vibes are going around at the minute, but the intention of those bad vibes is to divide us. Divide and conquer. We can weather the storm if we hold fast to the belief that we are all aiming for the same bright future. The darkness, the bad vibes, will not prevail against us anymore than the night prevails against the dawn sun — even if it seems at night that the darkness is oppressive and light will never come.

If you get bad vibes in the future, please, contact one of us and we'll talk through your discomfort with you and do our best to reassure you that it's not as bad as it seems (those who would tear down the alternative media have only the illusions to help them). If you do not trust all mods to reply to you, I swear it here and publicly that I will always do so. In the end, I can only speak for myself, and here I have done. My word is my bond and I freely bind myself to do as I have said,,



I don't understand the logic behind removing a post, putting it as a separate thread, and immediately lock it, so nobody can ever respond to it. And not offer an explanation.
As with the others above, I'd have to look at the specifics of the case (I don't know off-hand), but I'll have a look and see what I can find and I'll PM you whatever I do uncover.



And yes, English is not my native language, I try my best to come off as clean, respectful, and understandable as I can be. I'm from Macedonia, deep Southeast Europe. Not sure is its a Slavic thing that gets translated into the manner in which I word my sentences, but in any case, I apologize?
Well, I don't know if it's a Slavic thing either lol, I'm just guessing :D But your English is a lot better than my Macedonian ;-)

[Flash]

...and maybe in their world they are breaking a privacy law. Maye only a small group of them are doing this?
Why would they want to look at us with our psychosis, neurosis, addictions, confusions, unless there is some perverse voyeurism at work.
Or could we perhaps have something more to offer, something that would actually enhance their culture to progress further?

I love my cat and look for her development even if she is basically a scary chicken, will show teeth but then run away from her territory and is fundamentally a paranoi wreck! lol!

[ViralSpiral]

So now you know why the Turkish eye to protect against the bad eye (bad vibes) that can be thrown at you.

http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://www.mykonosbeads.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/eye_eemag2.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.mykonosbeads.com/eye-beads.htm&usg=__YngwwRJ0oMV3mQ2UShpFjlq-0EA=&h=260&w=274&sz=10&hl=fr&start=39&zoom=1&tbnid=MkLh_74nxB6ohM:&tbnh=149&tbnw=157&ei=DpnnTZGICYP00gGRmZCWCg&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dturkish%2Beye%26hl%3Dfr%26biw%3D1345%26bih%3D484%26gbv%3D2%26tbm%3Disch&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=275&page=4&ndsp=14&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:39&tx=127&ty=96
It is part of the overall East European, West Asia, culture.

EL OJO...
Jewelry sales of beads with the Turkish eye are worlwide now...rapidly becoming a part of global culture...
Replacing the crucifix as a protective amulet....

Another thought on being watched....there is a tribe in southern Africa who believed all stars in the night sky to be eyes that observed humans...


Indeed. Its the bushmen. They believe that the stars are the campfires of the departed.

[Darla Ken Pearce]

Anger and censorship issues ~ are ego based. We become like the headless horseman and when anger rules, there is nobody home. It means ego is ruling. Ego is the powers that be and the powers that were. Wrapped in one. See it, owe it, do not share it!

Ask ego to sit on your shoulder now and be quiet. So we can move on into the light of a new day.

We do not need ego anymore. We have forgotten ~ we are the Masters of this Universe and not headless horseman nor an ego alone! We are so much more! WE ARE IN FACT ~ DIVINE!

Let us, please, gather our wits and our heads about us, and hold them close to our hearts and move forward into the light again now. Thank you and amen. And so it is....

Note to our beloved Mods: You know sometimes whole threads just need to be transformed and transported like an old movie set into some dark black hole or old vault ~ as if into the sunset of the Etheric realms where they can trouble us no more except as some old science project on display in some future world of sorrows. AND I seriously doubt we will want to go back there again. EVER. Carry on darlings! xoxoxox

[greybeard]

Anger and censorship issues ~ are ego based. We become like the headless horseman and when anger rules, there is nobody home. It means ego is ruling. Ego is the powers that be and the powers that were. Wrapped in one. See it, owe it, do not share it!

Ask ego to sit on your shoulder now and be quiet. So we can move on into the light of a new day.

We do not need ego anymore. We have forgotten ~ we are the Masters of this Universe and not headless horseman nor an ego alone! We are so much more! WE ARE IN FACT ~ DIVINE!

Let us, please, gather our wits and our heads about us, and hold them close to our hearts and move forward into the light again now. Thank you and amen. And so it is....

Note to our beloved Mods: You know sometimes whole threads just need to be transformed and transported like an old movie set into some dark black hole or old vault ~ as if into the sunset of the Etheric realms where they can trouble us no more except as some old science project on display in some future world of sorrows. AND I seriously doubt we will want to go back there again. EVER. Carry on darlings! xoxoxox


Well that sums it up beautifully Darla.
There is no enemy out there.
Only the ego, which is an impostor claiming to be I/me, needs conflict to strengthen its position.
It delights in making the other wrong in order to be right.
The ego does not take kindly to being wrong
It does not even admit there is no right or wrong till thinking makes it so.

There is an incredible video by a young girl on the -"Enlightenment ego what is it?" thread in spirituality section thread where she shows a better understanding of ego than the majority of adults.

If we really want to move forward spiritually, the separation mechanism called ego needs to be understood and brought into awareness.

Chris

[Seikou-Kishi]

Hey Darla :-)

I really think this thread is evolving into a more positive interchange.

[ulli]

[Another thought on being watched....there is a tribe in southern Africa who believed all stars in the night sky to be eyes that observed humans...


Indeed. Its the bushmen. They believe that the stars are the campfires of the departed.

Campfires of the departed...
that sheds a new light,
a warm, soft, glowing light...

[ViralSpiral]

[

Campfires of the departed...
that sheds a new light,
a warm, soft, glowing light...


:)
My cup is always half full too
and actually, I'd faaaaar rather listen to their folklore, than have to learn about greens, greys, tall & short, be and ma-levolents ones etc., and yet here I am.......
I met a San bushman, some years back who is a guide at one of our lodges in Namibia. His name is Kapoi (their version of "cowboy" ), who told us fascinating stories around our own campfire one night. It was a moment of deep introspection for me, seeing how we (Western, first world) have infiltrated their "innocence".

[ulli]

[

Campfires of the departed...
that sheds a new light,
a warm, soft, glowing light...


:)
My cup is always half full too
and actually, I'd faaaaar rather listen to their folklore, than have to learn about greens, greys, tall & short, be and ma-levolents ones etc., and yet here I am.......
I met a San bushman, some years back who is a guide at one of our lodges in Namibia. His name is Kapoi (their version of "cowboy" ), who told us fascinating stories around our own campfire one night. It was a moment of deep introspection for me, seeing how we (Western, first world) have infiltrated their "innocence".

cool...and I love how this campfire has sent sparking embers all the way into a www forum thread on censorship....

meanwhile I understand that tribal Africa is breaking up in it's struggle to make a leap into the 21st century...
and hopefully will retain some of it's folklore while dumping it's nastier customs,
especially the things that are done to young women in some parts

[OnyxKnight]

Shame, when you are not supposed to take my own comments seriously, you do, and now when I should be taken serious, by you, I'm not lol.

I'm glad we're all starting to see the funny side :-)

Me too ;)

I'll respond to the rest in a PM. I think we have extended this matter for too long in the thread.

[Fred Steeves]

The bad vibes are going around at the minute, but the intention of those bad vibes is to divide us. Divide and conquer. We can weather the storm if we hold fast to the belief that we are all aiming for the same bright future. The darkness, the bad vibes, will not prevail against us anymore than the night prevails against the dawn sun — even if it seems at night that the darkness is oppressive and light will never come.

If you get bad vibes in the future, please, contact one of us and we'll talk through your discomfort with you and do our best to reassure you that it's not as bad as it seems (those who would tear down the alternative media have only the illusions to help them). If you do not trust all mods to reply to you, I swear it here and publicly that I will always do so. In the end, I can only speak for myself, and here I have done. My word is my bond and I freely bind myself to do as I have said,,




Spoken like a true leader. That's what Avalon's all about right there!


Cheers,
Fred

[Newlyn]

:) Thanks people for a nice day.

Let´s talk about important things. This thread is moving in right direction. What is really the reason behind the bad vibes? How can we detect our egos as quick as possible, and see it´s little tricks and deceptions?

Thanks to Ilie for a good conversation, and thanks to all avalonians for the most interesting, dynamic and growing forum on internet. We are growing together here.

Blessings

[Lord Sidious]

The bad vibes are going around at the minute, but the intention of those bad vibes is to divide us. Divide and conquer. We can weather the storm if we hold fast to the belief that we are all aiming for the same bright future. The darkness, the bad vibes, will not prevail against us anymore than the night prevails against the dawn sun — even if it seems at night that the darkness is oppressive and light will never come.

If you get bad vibes in the future, please, contact one of us and we'll talk through your discomfort with you and do our best to reassure you that it's not as bad as it seems (those who would tear down the alternative media have only the illusions to help them). If you do not trust all mods to reply to you, I swear it here and publicly that I will always do so. In the end, I can only speak for myself, and here I have done. My word is my bond and I freely bind myself to do as I have said,,




Spoken like a true leader. That's what Avalon's all about right there!


Cheers,
Fred

Oliver is ok for a nugget, isn't he? :cool:

[Newlyn]

OnyxKnight said


You really don't trust me, do you?

Shame, when you are not supposed to take my own comments seriously, you do, and now when I should be taken serious, by you, I'm not lol.

Sorry if I came out that way to you. But since you don't trust me, maybe you would trust another Avalon member?

A while ago, we were talking about things in PMs, and he asked me about an honest opinion of you.

I told him to be quiet about it, as I liked how the character friction between us was, and I found it to be very interesting, but I guess in order to show you I'm not the person you probably think I am - ask Rocky_Shortz, what I really think about you as a person. You might be surprised :)


HAHA! This is wonderful!

I know this kind of attitude very well, and now when we are into this subject..

I have been travelling some in easten Europe (Slovakia and Czech Republic mostley, but also Serbia, Hungary (a bit different though) Romania) and spent a LOT of time with people from these areas, and their way of thinking is special, straight on, and full of humour. It´s never really serious, and at one moment you are in a big fight with someone, and next moment you look into each others eyes and just smile, then you laugh and drink pivo together.

And in russia you won´t become good friends with someone if you did not fight first.

As a scandinavian I had many funny and important lessons to learn. :)

I feel so good when I see the greatness of the minds here, and I´m glad I made the right decicion to join.

---


"To forgive is to set a prisoner free and discover that the prisoner was you." -Lewis B. Smedes

"Conflict is inevitable, but combat is optional." -Max Lucade

"Forgiveness does not change the past, but it does enlarge the future." -Paul Boese

"Of course you don't have to make apologies, because when you really love each other you never have to say your sorry." -Avalon member majapahit, after a conflict on the forums

:)

[ThePythonicCow]

There are three reasons we will normally take down a post:
We believe it will cause offence, or is in some other way inappropriate (e.g., scamming or sales-pitching); The post is reported to us using the triangle in the bottom left corner of every post, near the 'thanks' button, and; The original poster wishes to have the post deleted.

I'd like to make a minor correction to one thing that Oliver said here.

Reporting a post by clicking on the triangle (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/images/buttons/report-40b.png) in the bottom left corner of every post does not necessarily mean you want or expect that post to be deleted.

You can report a post that way anytime you'd like a mod to look at it. For examples: Perhaps you have noticed a duplicate thread, and would like a mod to consider merging two threads.
Perhaps you are see a broken link or embedded Youtube video and would like a mod to try to fix it.
Perhaps you think that there may be something inappropriate in the post and you'd like a mod to evaluate it.
Perhaps you've noticed a new member is confused and could use a guiding hand.

When you click on the http://projectavalon.net/forum4/images/buttons/report-40b.png, a second screen will come up, where you can explain what you'd like the mod to look at in that post. The actual Report is not filed until you click on the "Send Report" button on that second screen. You can change your mind up to that point.

Reported posts are (perhaps unfortunately) seldom looked at immediately. When we have adequate moderator staffing, a mod will check the Reports every few hours or a couple times a day. If something is a flaming emergency, a Private Message (PM) to one or more of the mods who appear online will more likely get noticed quickly.

Also (again unfortunately) we don't always get back to the member who reports a post. We should, and if we take any significant action, we usually do get back to the affected members. But sometimes we decide to take no action, and then get busy with other things. For some members, this is fine -- they just send a Report off to its destiny and forget about it. No doubt at other times, a member has been disappointed not to get a response from a Report. Feel free to ding us again with another report, or with a PM to a mod, if you find yourself wondering what happened to a Report you made earlier.

The moderator staff is volunteer and limited, so focuses where it can make the most difference, or where the particular interests of an individual moderator leads them.

In short, there is no need to hesitate about Reporting a post. It doesn't necessarily mean you want something bad to happen to that post, or to the member who posted it. Perhaps you're just trying to be helpful.

If there are problems with Reporting posts, it is that sometimes too little happens, not too much :).

[Rocky_Shorz]

hey Onyx, I see you've been out howling at the new moon again... ;)

I think this thread has done good for many here, and yes oh nugget Lord, he has PM'd me laughing when I thought you two were locking horns, he does enjoy verbally sparring with an intelligent Sith.

[mosquito]

Wow, I'd been ignoring this thread since it first opened as it just appeared to be another endless moan ....
But I came and had a look today and some amazing stuff has happened !
Thanks to : the mods for leaving it open and allowing it to develop; Flash for mediating so beautifully; Onyx & Oliver for coming to such a good understanding.
:cool:

[9eagle9]

Yes I was censored this morning and likely this post will be censored. And no I'm not slinking quietly into the night about it.


A member of this forum has taken it upon themselves to disparage and slander me in my private email box by stating that I am a lost soul, negative and dark and that I should stop spreading my words around and be monitored because I'm like all evil and stuff.. sweetie, honey baby cakes.

When I responded to the person in question telling her to back off , she reported me to moderation. I forwarded my responses to moderation and I assured moderation I would make no more responses to her and figured they would tell her to stay out of my email box. However ...no...she has free rein and now she is back again this morning implicating that I am hiding something...(lol) ....by.....

BY NOT PUBLISHING MY NAME AND HOME ADDRESS ON THIS VERY PUBLIC FORUM.!!!!

Who does? I don't. But now internet safety is some sort of conspiracy? Why?

Even though I'm all evil and dark she just can't seem to stay away from me.So I'm pretty certain she's not convinced of her own convictions. But you know there's no two way self accountability here is there?

Might I ask members how many of you make your private information public on the forum?

Your home address, your full name, your phone number? My name is very well known for those I care to share it with and those are people I trust. I don't trust guests and lurkers in the forum. And I'm now having suspicious cast on me because I keep myself safe? Because I don't state every detail of my private life?

Doesn't matter now. My post was snagged by interested parties who are also subjected to her unmitigated abuse, and its busy making its way through the channels of those who have been subjected to it. I had no control over that and I'm glad if it serves a purpose to putting an end to her intrusions.

While I will not respond to her directly, I am curious and responsible enough for my own safety to see what it is she is up to and am ever interested in what she has to say about me directly without third hand parties being involved. So I while I assure you that I will no longer protest this abuse, I can't speak for other members who have been subjected to the same inane slander.

I am a responsible person and I don't post name address and serial number for for internet safety reasons, yet this is now turning into some sort of conspiracy.

Lots of people in the forum know my real name. All someone had to do was ask it.

So I decided to address this in public because I am all about transparency and stated exactly who has a beef with me, and what she has to say about my hiding my authenticity and identity since apparently this slander needs to be kept secret for some reason.

. She also stated I hide my face and identity when my profile photo and avatar have always been posted up for the world to see. That I've kept the fact that I'm a woman secret and I'm hiding that fact when it is obvious from looking at my avatar and profile photo that is MY WOMAN"S FACE. And I'm not allowed to point out this most obvious fact in defense of myself? Why?

Now if people demand to know who and what I am, I will cheerfullly accommodate and I did before the post was removed but I'm not plastering the forum with name dropping and stating my credentials tra la la hither and yon like some ego maniac.

So she insists there some sort of dark hidden secret, and I posted all my dark hidden secrets...., And my post was promptly removed. So she is now free to go about stating how dark and secret I am.

So now my identity is some sort of dark secret and when I reveal that it is not, its censored?

However in the meantime a number of people have stepped forward to write to tell me in private they have suffered similar abuses and lectures from the person in question so I suppose my efforts weren't in vain after all, and I doubt this will go away on it's own NOW no matter how much I'm shut up. I let people know what was going on yesterday when Moderation failed to make it clear to her if she doesn't' like what I have to say, then she should stop private messaging me. There are LOTS of people aware of what she's doing now. And none of them told me to ignore her but report her. Which I did. to no avail.

I am simply told to ignore the person in question while she apparently is not told to stop harassing people in private email. Because now there are just a few too many people coming forward to state she does the same thing to them. A can of worms was opened and the person who opened it is ill prepared to go fishing with those worms.

SINCERELY,

CHELLEY spelled with a C.H.E.L.L.E.Y pronounced SHELLY
AKA

EAGLE, which stands for EASTERN AREA GATHERING OF LEADER ELDERS.


No mystery there.

A lot of people have figured out who and what I am without me having to publicly state it. They respect me for not being a name dropper.

I didn't realize I had to walk around with my drawers unzipped in order to be a member of this forum.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Oh and I don't use CHELLEY as an avatar name because its too close to CHELLE another member avatar.

Make of that what you will.

[OnyxKnight]

I think the mods should definitely have a look at this.

And I have proposed an idea, but unfortunately it has fallen on deaf ears. About installing an 'ignore' button feature that a lot of other forums have. A very useful tool to just make a specific person to stop tormenting you in threads and also in PMs.

Either that, or the mods will have to take these things seriously, as I would probably would have done the same thing as you 9eagle9.

[Seikou-Kishi]

9eagle9, I removed your long, long diatribe because it served no purpose. If neither of your likes the other, just both agree not to talk to each other. Let's forget about who got the last remark in and forget about having to get our response in, and say if you both agree, here, under this post, to refrain from contacting each other and replying to each other in threads. This is really the only way we can resolve it!

[Donna O]

There is an 'ignore' option already. Go to settings>>'Edit Ignore List' (down the left hand side.)>>add user name


I think the mods should definitely have a look at this.

And I have proposed an idea, but unfortunately it has fallen on deaf ears. About installing an 'ignore' button feature that a lot of other forums have. A very useful tool to just make a specific person to stop tormenting you in threads and also in PMs.

Either that, or the mods will have to take these things seriously, as I would probably would have done the same thing as you 9eagle9.

[9eagle9]

I've already agreed to it Oliver. I agreed to it yesterday. An agreement is only an agreement if both parties abide by it. I presumed she was told to stay out of my email box the way I was told not to respond to her emails. I stood by the agreement, she did not.

I decided to make my identity public since the implication here is that I'm some dark unknown entity lurking about spreading negativity among the members. That identity has since been taken down so I expect that my identity if moderation views it unfit for public view not to be brought up again in any communication private or public since it has been deemed a meaningless diatribe? Can we make that agreement as well? Since the issue of my identity and the authenticity of my identity is meaningless can we attach no more 'meaning' to my identity. All of us? Including the parties who want to make such an issue about it?

[Seikou-Kishi]

Darla, do you agree to it?

[greybeard]

Hi bashi has been permanently retired from long term service to Avalon.

He played the devils advocate sometimes to make you think and crossed swords with many --- myself included--- but he brought a lot to the table.

Chris

[Rocky_Shorz]

Bashi is gone?

[ROMANWKT]

9eagle9, I removed your long, long diatribe because it served no purpose. If neither of your likes the other, just both agree not to talk to each other. Let's forget about who got the last remark in and forget about having to get our response in, and say if you both agree, here, under this post, to refrain from contacting each other and replying to each other in threads. This is really the only way we can resolve it!

This is really nonsense of what is going on here, people are being harassed and nothing is done.

this is not right.

regards to all
roman

[SKIBADABOMSKI]

Hi bashi has been permanently retired from long term service to Avalon.

He played the devils advocate sometimes to make you think and crossed swords with many --- myself included--- but he brought a lot to the table.

Chris

He most certainly did bring a lot to the table. What a shame, he'd always get my cogs working.


http://i35.tinypic.com/fvbnf9.jpg

He'll be missed.

Ski-

[Seikou-Kishi]

9eagle9, I removed your long, long diatribe because it served no purpose. If neither of your likes the other, just both agree not to talk to each other. Let's forget about who got the last remark in and forget about having to get our response in, and say if you both agree, here, under this post, to refrain from contacting each other and replying to each other in threads. This is really the only way we can resolve it!

This is really nonsense of what is going on here, people are being harassed and nothing is done.

this is not right.

regards to all
roman

I would be grateful if 9eagle9 would send me instances of harassment. If I cannot find an amicable truce, I would need something substantive before I could do anything.

[ROMANWKT]

9eagle9, I removed your long, long diatribe because it served no purpose. If neither of your likes the other, just both agree not to talk to each other. Let's forget about who got the last remark in and forget about having to get our response in, and say if you both agree, here, under this post, to refrain from contacting each other and replying to each other in threads. This is really the only way we can resolve it!

This is really nonsense of what is going on here, people are being harassed and nothing is done.

this is not right.

regards to all
roman

I would be grateful if 9eagle9 would send me instances of harassment. If I cannot find an amicable truce, I would need something substantive before I could do anything.

My understanding is that she had informed you many times about this, and nothing has been done.
my regards to you Oliver S
roman

[Seikou-Kishi]

9eagle9, I removed your long, long diatribe because it served no purpose. If neither of your likes the other, just both agree not to talk to each other. Let's forget about who got the last remark in and forget about having to get our response in, and say if you both agree, here, under this post, to refrain from contacting each other and replying to each other in threads. This is really the only way we can resolve it!

This is really nonsense of what is going on here, people are being harassed and nothing is done.

this is not right.

regards to all
roman

I would be grateful if 9eagle9 would send me instances of harassment. If I cannot find an amicable truce, I would need something substantive before I could do anything.

My understanding is that she had informed you many times about this, and nothing has been done.
my regards to you Oliver S
roman

I've heard very little of it all. Not only have I not seen a single harassing PM, I haven't seen a single PM at all. The report triangle found to the right of the thanks button on a post is in a similar place in PMs, and we can't see PMs until they've been reported, so we don't know any of what's been going on.

Ilie really summed it up for me "nothing can be done from hearsay... so we need those PMs reported"

I have to justify everything I do to the other moderators, we all have to. I cannot do anything without something to show as a justification — I'm sure people here wouldn't have it any other way!

[OnyxKnight]

I think she has made it clear that she does not want to continue that dribble anymore, but she does have a person spamming her email box with things that continue this thing on and on.

Maybe, just maybe, the ball needs to be passed on to the other side. After all, that side is the stalking side isn't it? Just saying ...

[9eagle9]

I forwarded two of them to you yesterday. You thanked me for them.

The sermons about how I'm a lost soul and negative, and spreading negativity throughout the forum because I have the temerity to speak out about the Galactic Federation of Light. . And that I need stop talking and spreading the negativity. Basically saying I shouldn't have a voice in matters. She reported you to me as being threatened but who is being threatened her exactly?

I did send them to you. You did thank me for doing so.

Would you like me to forward that was sent to me today implicating me as being up to something and not being a genuine person because I don't post my email address , home address, full name and other personal information on a public website like most rational people.

I'm certainly willing to do so.

I posted one of the harassment lettes up on a post and you promptly took it down as a 'meaningless diatribe.' Did you not read the quoted material before deciding it was meaningless? If its meaningless I'm puzzled as to why I need to forward them to you again?

But I will do so willingly.





9eagle9, I removed your long, long diatribe because it served no purpose. If neither of your likes the other, just both agree not to talk to each other. Let's forget about who got the last remark in and forget about having to get our response in, and say if you both agree, here, under this post, to refrain from contacting each other and replying to each other in threads. This is really the only way we can resolve it!

This is really nonsense of what is going on here, people are being harassed and nothing is done.

this is not right.

regards to all
roman

I would be grateful if 9eagle9 would send me instances of harassment. If I cannot find an amicable truce, I would need something substantive before I could do anything.

[edit: I accidentally edited your post and typed my reply in as though I'd done a "reply with quote"... can you tell I'm on top form? lol]

[9eagle9]

I have forwarded the emails to you and other members of moderation just in case they get lost again.

[Seikou-Kishi]

I forwarded two of them to you yesterday. You thanked me for them.

The sermons about how I'm a lost soul and negative, and spreading negativity throughout the forum because I have the temerity to speak out about the Galactic Federation of Light. . And that I need stop talking and spreading the negativity. Basically saying I shouldn't have a voice in matters. She reported you to me as being threatened but who is being threatened her exactly?

I did send them to you. You did thank me for doing so.

Would you like me to forward that was sent to me today implicating me as being up to something and not being a genuine person because I don't post my email address , home address, full name and other personal information on a public website like most rational people.

I'm certainly willing to do so.

I posted one of the harassment lettes up on a post and you promptly took it down as a 'meaningless diatribe.' Did you not read the quoted material before deciding it was meaningless? If its meaningless I'm puzzled as to why I need to forward them to you again?

But I will do so willingly.

Did you? Oh god that rings an awful bell now. No you're totally right I've just found them. I'm going to report them now from my inbox so that all the moderators can see them and we can discuss how to proceed.

Edit: actually with regards the new stuff — definitely. If there's more today it would certainly help to see it. So sorry about this completely negligent follow-up.

Edit: for those who didn't forget 9eagle9 when I did, the matter was continued in PMs.

[ThePythonicCow]

He most certainly did bring a lot to the table. What a shame, he'd always get my cogs working.


http://i35.tinypic.com/fvbnf9.jpg

He'll be missed.

Ski-

True.

Bashi also took it upon himself, on more than one occasion, to affectively silence another member with a visually and viscerally vindictive vendetta. Getting us to think is good ... but you've got to leave some space for others to think differently ... at least on this forum.

When one member decides that this forum is not big enough for both themselves and some other member (that they feel is too "wrong"), then the moderators first try to "moderate" the dispute, seeking to have each member respect the presence and contributions of the other (which might include modest and respectful dissent, or simply ignoring) Failing that, someone ends up leaving. If the mods do nothing, the "attackee" is driven into silence. If the mods intervene, then perhaps the "attacker" is shown the door first. If both the attacker and attackee are sufficiently stubborn, then it may be a plethora of humble readers, tired with the noise, who leave. At some point, lacking infinite wisdom, patience and energy for this, the best the mods can do is influence who is the departee.

Some of the other mods describe this as being a difference of whether one attacks the content of a post, or the poster. Personally I do not think that is an adequate distinction. If I started hounding every minute imperfection of grammar, spelling, presentation, ambiguity and imperfection of fact or inference in some particular members postings -- following up each line they posted with a page long dissertation on the minute imperfections of their content -- that could get annoying as hell pretty quickly, even if I scrupulously avoided any ad hominem attacks. Note I exaggerate in this description - it does not describe anything I've actually witnessed, from anyone. But something tending along these lines could after a fashion get one (including myself) permanently unsubscribed from here.

[OnyxKnight]

Well, what exactly did Bashi do to get the boot? I'm just curious.

I have had my own strong disagreements with him/her on many issues, (sometimes to the point of arguing), but I never would have let him go if I was a mod, as I think he made a lot of contribution to this forum, especially from a scientific point of view (we kinda lack that type of people here, one of the reasons I considered him/her valuable member).

Maybe format his posts in a more respective manner, if he was being too harsh and offensive in his delivery there. I think it would have been a good solution.

[bitworm]

Well, what exactly did Bashi do to get the boot? I'm just curious.

I have had my own strong disagreements with him/her on many issues, (sometimes to the point of arguing), but I never would have let him go if I was a mod, as I think he made a lot of contribution to this forum, especially from a scientific point of view (we kinda lack that type of people here, one of the reasons I considered him/her valuable member).

Maybe format his posts in a more respective manner, if he was being too harsh and offensive in his delivery there. I think it would have been a good solution.


I think it might have had something to do with when J. Horak was posting here, and part of that exchange got moved to a separate thread. Things kinda went downhill from there.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?15668-Can-We-TRUST-CHARLES-side-thread

[OnyxKnight]

Well, what exactly did Bashi do to get the boot? I'm just curious.

I have had my own strong disagreements with him/her on many issues, (sometimes to the point of arguing), but I never would have let him go if I was a mod, as I think he made a lot of contribution to this forum, especially from a scientific point of view (we kinda lack that type of people here, one of the reasons I considered him/her valuable member).

Maybe format his posts in a more respective manner, if he was being too harsh and offensive in his delivery there. I think it would have been a good solution.

I think it might have had something to do with when J. Horak was posting here, and part of that exchange got moved to a separate thread. Things kinda went downhill from there.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?15668-Can-We-TRUST-CHARLES-side-thread

1- That's old stuff. He was still here after James decided not to post (IMO, a good decision, if he continued, it might have cost him his carrier);

2- Horak decided not to post a few days into March. Last post of Bashi is from 4th of June, posting an article about dead farm animals;

3- That gives a room of a few months for the mods to punish Bashi if he crossed some lines. What's with the deliberation? Why now?;

4- His previous posts were in the thread about Comet Elenin or Nibiru discussion. He was respectful there, as far as could see;

5- He was also very respectful with Horak too. He asked questions, Horak got upset. If one doesn't have anything to hide or lie about, he wouldn't have got upset. I found his questions to be in place;

6- I questioned Horak too. Maybe even more harshly than Bashi. I was only asked to calm down. I wasn't even warned. Let alone deactivated because of it. Why did Bashi get the deactivation sentence?


I'm not going to list nicknames here, but a large number of Avalon members have hinted to me that this place is not a very welcoming place for people with scientific background. Especially if they question others.


I openly state here that I have crossed swords with Bashi too, on numerous occasions. I would never, ever, consider him/her leaving Avalon because they question me, or anyone else.

So far, things remain unexplained.