Is Monogamy Natural?

[paul1972]

Is Monogamy Natural?

For Mammals, like us tweaked Humans... it's a rare event
it's well explained here, I'd love your response on this TOPIC

DEdHz0eIpm4

Love

Paul1972

[crosby]

i remember a line from an older chick flick that i used to watch where the father explains to his grown, pregnant daughter: "You want monogamy, marry a swan." - - i have always admired couples whom have stayed together forever. something very idealistic about it, and when we're young, idealism is what we're seeking. however, in real life, i think the divorce rate for first marriages in the united states is something like 70%. and maybe 50% for second timers. i could be wrong about those figures, but even if they're running a little less, it makes taking the leap a lot more scary.
warmest, corson

[Flash]

it seems that monogamy is possible when testosterone goes down;)

I also said to one of my teacher once: in men, spirituality goes up when testosterone goes down.;) lol

[Bridey]

To each his own......no judgements ever. For me personally, its not natural.

[Lifesong]

I'm not sure it matters if its natural. It's certainly a choice, and not one impossible to achieve.

:)

[Davidallany]

Monogamy is as natural as wearing clothes.

[DeDukshyn]

Ok here's me: To me having one sexual partner is a tad absurd. It just doesn't seem natural. It's like someone made this rule "Since you are so emotionally weak, more than one sexual partner will destroy your life so dont do it" and everyone has the program downloaded, but at the same time I'm not that emotionally weak. At all. But the "rule" makes us all believe we are, and thus obey it. Having more than one relationship partner at time is a bit more odd, but I still see nothing wrong if all parties are fully conscious and aware (aka - no cultish brainwashing - thats just plain wrong) -- after all I'm not one with authority to judge anyone (but one girlfriend is usually quite enough thanks ;))

In a perfect world, strong negative feelings won't exist ... sure opens up possibilities for a richer interactive experience IMHO.

Edit: I think it may be important to note -- I have been extremely monogamous in my life ...

[Lord Sidious]

If you consider that there is the possibility that your consciousness merges with someone that you are intimate with, then I would think it is not only a good idea, I would think it is a safe idea.
Talk about safe sex!
How would you like to merge with lots of different people, not even taking into account who they had already merged with?

[Davidallany]

How would you like to merge with lots of different people

:) Sounds interesting.

[Tangri]

it seems that monogamy is possible when testosterone goes down;)

I also said to one of my teacher once: in men, spirituality goes up when testosterone goes down.;) lol

Blaming testosterone in not fair, since polygamy needs second opposite sex.
Without consent of both sides it will never happen, then do not go blaming one side

[Positive Vibe Merchant]

If you consider that there is the possibility that your consciousness merges with someone that you are intimate with, then I would think it is not only a good idea, I would think it is a safe idea.
Talk about safe sex!
How would you like to merge with lots of different people, not even taking into account who they had already merged with?

LS, would you constitute 'merging' as the more spiritual aspect of sex eg 'making love' where there is deep emotional input as opposed to sexual encounter for the sake of it?
Either way, interesting topic.
M@

[NancyV]

This post is categorized as "TL-DR" - Too Long, Don't Read. Ulli came up with that designation and I think it applies here. So if you hate longer posts, Don't READ! :)

Monogamy is partially natural and partially a moral tenet or doctrine in many religions and cultures. Some religions and cultures allow polygamy for men but not for women. There are also some cultures which allow polyandry (having more than one husband), but that is more rare than polygamy. I think it is more natural for men not to be monogamous than for women, depending on their age of course. Men seem to have a natural, biological imperative to spread their seed, all for the survival of the species of course.

I began exploring this question when I was 19, a year after marrying my first husband. It took me that long to find out that he was having many affairs. I didn't want to leave him since I was so madly in love with him and he is the one who prompted me to begin researching the validity of monogamy. I ended up dealing with it for a couple of years and we even engaged in wife swapping which was pretty popular in certain circles in Southern California when we moved there from Chicago in 1967. Then there was the hippie peace/love movement in the late 60's and 70's where it was accepted that you could "love" or have sex with multiple partners. Casual sex was no big deal in the peace/love community.

So I managed to convince myself that it was absolutely normal to LOVE more than one person at a time and that it was natural to engage in sex with others besides my spouse. But I reached a point in about a year where I realized that I couldn't overcome my conditioning (or my basic nature) completely and it didn't feel good to me for my husband to have sex with other women. It wasn't jealousy, as I am not the jealous type, but it felt wrong. I would have been quite willing to give up my lovers but he was not willing to give up his lady friends. So we decided to remain just friends and not live as husband and wife. We are still friends all these years later.

As I got older it seemed to me that monogamy was more strongly desired by women who were of child bearing age and wanted a stable father for their children. As mentioned in the video about how women choose men, I normally chose very high testosterone/macho type men for my lovers until it came to the point where I wanted to have children at about age 30. At that point I chose a really nice, more artistic type man who was not prone to excessive aggression. I was 33 when my first child was born and my husband was a wonderful father. We stayed married for 16 years. After we divorced my 3rd and 4th husbands have been very macho types again. I wasn't looking for a father for my children anymore. So I think the video has validity in it's points about how women choose men and why they choose certain types.

Monogamy is a very touchy subject since most of us are brainwashed to think of sex with someone other than our spouse or mate as "cheating" or even a sinful, if your religion considers it to be a sin. Depending on what you think your agreement is with someone you either live with or marry, that might have some validity. If you have a religious wedding where you promise to be faithful, cleaving only unto your spouse, to have and to hold as long as you both shall live, etc. etc. then you may be "cheating" on that agreement and may feel like you are sinful. Perhaps the usual wedding vows are a bit unrealistic for many people to live up to.

I don't think everyone is similar in their vision of an idealistic relationship. There is so much personal psychology involved that it's difficult to generalize. Many women want men they can control and others want macho men. It also seems to make a difference if you are with your soul mate (if you happen to have one alive on earth when you are). I didn't meet and marry my soul mate until I was 48, but when I met him I have never since been even slightly interested in another man and the feeling I had all my life of searching for something that was missing, disappeared.

Monogamy is a multi-faceted subject on biological (genetic), psychological, religious, cultural and spiritual levels. Each of us needs to do what we are drawn to do to learn our lessons. Hopefully one can become aware of the difference between the beliefs they have that are mostly brainwashing and conditioning, and what is the true nature of their individuated soul in this incarnation.

[Lord Sidious]

If you consider that there is the possibility that your consciousness merges with someone that you are intimate with, then I would think it is not only a good idea, I would think it is a safe idea.
Talk about safe sex!
How would you like to merge with lots of different people, not even taking into account who they had already merged with?

LS, would you constitute 'merging' as the more spiritual aspect of sex eg 'making love' where there is deep emotional input as opposed to sexual encounter for the sake of it?
Either way, interesting topic.
M@

That is exactlly what I am getting at.
When we do that, there is a merging of consciousness.
Surely I am not the only one to have felt this?

[mondaze]

i tried to merge with my wife, i gave it 30 years. There was never that connection. I am totally merged now and very happy to be so.

[Lord Sidious]

i tried to merge with my wife, i gave it 30 years. There was never that connection. I am totally merged now and very happy to be so.

Note to self, leave this one alone, do NOT give the poor sod some smart alec comment.
Ok, got it. :p

[mosquito]

For all those women out there who seem to believe that only men have affairs, let me assure you YOU'RE WRONG !

Monogamy is a very complex issue, and one I only feel qualified to comment on having gone through various life stages, 2 marriages and looking at things from a new perspective.

Monogamy seems to be biologically/ evolutionarily advantageous when we're in the procreation stage, it's probably highly politically incorrect to dare to suggest that children need 2 parents, but they do !

Monogamy can be wonderful, when you're in a relationship with someone with whom you merge during love making, it's true ecstacy and can't be beaten. Some of you will never have experienced this, others will have, you know what I mean.

But people change and grow, couples part, and we need to move on. I for one haven't yet found someone else who can give me that deep sense of fulfilment, but I'm looking, and YES, I'm having a lot of fun doing so. (Don't even try to lay a guilt trip on me, it won't work !)

Something else to bear in mind is that a man remains fertile for a far longer time than awoman, so yes, sorry to offend the PC brigade but it is a natural drive for a man to continue spreading his seed. I've said in many other threads that becoming conscious is a process whereby we become aware of all of ourselves, including the deep primitive urges. These don't go away just because you've started to wear sandals and burn incense, we're all human, we have needs and desires, that ARE NOT bad in themselves. Remember - what you repress has a nasty habit of coming along and booting you up the arse !!

That said, I abhore adultery and cheating in any way - if I make a conscious decision to commit to someone and love and support them, then I will do so. I also expect her to do the same. (That's fair isn't it ?) We mustn't judge those who lapse from this contract though, when you're young and idealistic it's easy to say "thou shalt not ..." but which of us has been in a relationship, knowing it to be bad for us, but been too afraid to do something ? (My first wife was violent. What is a man supposed to do in that situation ? Report it to the police and get laughed at ?)

Some people choose to be in an open marriage - that's fine, it's upto them.

Please let's also not forget that one of the main ways that the system controls us, especially religion, but governments more and more so, is through demonising and criminalising our sexuality. In my experience sexuality is the manifestation of spirit in my body, it's what gives me pleasure, joie de vivre, the plain old va va va voooom !

[Tangri]

Monogamy is for tracing family trees .It will be easy to extract need it one

[bennycog]

If you consider that there is the possibility that your consciousness merges with someone that you are intimate with, then I would think it is not only a good idea, I would think it is a safe idea.
Talk about safe sex!
How would you like to merge with lots of different people, not even taking into account who they had already merged with?

LS, would you constitute 'merging' as the more spiritual aspect of sex eg 'making love' where there is deep emotional input as opposed to sexual encounter for the sake of it?
Either way, interesting topic.
M@

That is exactlly what I am getting at.
When we do that, there is a merging of consciousness.
Surely I am not the only one to have felt this?

I am looking forward to the day that i do lord nug.... um sid :)
but till then monogamy can wait..

[sirac]

I certainly hope monogamy is natural, otherwise i have wasted alot of energy optimizing for it

i think monogamy is natural for a person/people with career path, who need a life rhythm {i.e. cooling down toward the end of it}, and needs daily rhythms (one need to cool down and maintain other things like motivation for work).

but, when it comes to choosing a partner.
one finds that monogamy is unnatural.
many partners can fit into the addictive phase the body takes up when 'addicting to a person'
---if one can taste your partner (like others taste food, and thinkers taste thought){obviously one is tapping into a few dimensions to taste}, you will find different strengths for different people and so one might not be able to choose ONE (how many have experienced this running thru varsity).


in the discussion of who is more faithful.....man or woman (ridicules discussion for those who are still trapped by this meaninglessness)
estrogen is just as strong as testosterone behaviourally# {personally i think testost. does not make more unfaithful, certainly a males body will respond to a female body, that's how man are wired, but i think testost. is primitive/primary on 'fight related reactions'}
that aside,
there is also the personality dimension of that person. (see MTBI or the russian Socionics),
with social types tending to be more promiscuis (regardless of being male or female, the females main advantage is that she does not need to hunt so hard, or adjust to society with the hatred and vehemency that can be in a man;--is woman blind to a dimension of society?)
...let me not say promiscious.....let me rather say........more optionate (swimming in the pool of people)

[Nanoo Nanoo]

Monogamy is as natural as wearing clothes.

Excellent comment , it sums it up really :)

When i was younger i had such high testosterone that i almost had brain damage .. and a mild stroke . I did however stay faithful to my girlfriends. Its something that we are capable of if the person believes in it .. like most things. If its a part of you then yes monogamy is great .. Is it natural ? yes .. we see it in nature all the time .. is promiscurity natural ? yes we see it all the time ... What is Un natural is feeling obliged to stay with someone thats not doing it for you ...

One thing i did tend to notice in my experience is that the chemistry must be there or all else can fail and if its not there you may tend to look at other alternatives. Some people just dont know when to stop looking .. We also need to have better experience and education if we are to understand Monogamy . we are all left to our own devices and have to learn the hard way.

:)

N

[Mostafa]

throughout history if tribes wanted to expand their comitatus so there would be stronger economy polygamy was practiced. marriage with one's daughter or sister was useless since it didn't help expanding the household's economy. then religions said it's a sin. I'm digressing.
I'd stay put with monogamy I don't have that much love for two at the same time:)

[red_rose]

oooh I like this thread!

Interesting.

Since I was a child I never thought that monogamy was natural. I have always been, so far. Boyfriends never liked it when I expressed my thoughts on monogamy, but the way I see it is, if I know it would deeply hurt or devastate a partner if I were to play out my beliefs, then I would remain monogamous.

I read/heard somewhere the notion that if we were to not be monogamous then society would be better. It would be better because everyone would look out for each other's children, because you wouldn't know if you were related. If a child was starving in the street for example, a male could possibly feel affected by this, more deeply, because at the end of the day that could be his child.

It sounds far fetched, but it kinda makes sense.

In summary I don't like the idea of being monogamous, but then the romantic side of me LOVES monogamy.

Who knows, maybe there is no right or wrong.

red_rose

[Mike Gorman]

The nature of the relationship determines the strength of loyalty you feel towards it, for many the sheer ego charge
of being attractive to another is irresistible-even if this means hurting other people, or an entire family-it is tempting to judge-but each relationship is unique.
For me it is easy to be monogamous because I am with a woman who was born a few hundred meters from my house in england-both of our families moved to Australia from the UK in the same month and year (sept 1970) and we grew up, seemingly just missing meeting over many years-only to find each other
in our middle years after we both had many other relationships-we find it very easy to offer each other complete loyalty-I feel extremely fortunate.

[butcherman]

no not me 3 X wifes and five kids monogamys ok for the weekend { think No 4 will work had 7 years court ship this time } should i pop the question ?

[Blacklight43]

It has worked for us...so far...51 years and counting!

[9eagle9]

Well god bless you all whether you have one or many regardless the number I have no idea how you do it. I find it amazing actually. I'm rather in awe.

I used to be the run of the mill monogamist.

Now I'm a total ultimate monogamist, there is me and me in this relationship. I'm nice to me, and polite and respectful to me. I'm honest with me, I pick up after me, I don't shout at myself, or sulk about work or the activities that compose my life. I don't scream at me for not making enough money. I don't scream at me to choose between my life and me. I'm not always wheedling me or intruding on me all hours of the day when I'm at work making demands that I am quite unable to fulfill. I don't accuse me of looking at the bag boy at the grocery store. I don't compare me to the girls on tv, neither do I threaten me that I will find another me if I don't get my way. I don't form strange sexual addictions with me. I don't cheat on me or criticize the way I dress. I don't raise my voice or hit me. I don't play mind games and manipulate me. I don't prod at me till the point of anger. I don't demand that I go out every night and engage in this frantic socialization. Me and me are completely compatible we like the same books, we both like to ride and fish, garden and woodcraft, music, taste in vehicles, a completely peaceful cohabitation.

My hats off to you all cause I don't know how you do it. You must be God.

Now. Is merging like having someone riding your ass all day or am I thinking of something different?

[NancyV]

no not me 3 X wifes and five kids monogamys ok for the weekend { think No 4 will work had 7 years court ship this time } should i pop the question ?
7 years!!???? Geeez, you ARE slow in making up your mind. LOL... Please pop the question! My present husband and I got married 3 weeks after meeting and it's the 4th (and last) marriage for both of us. 15 awesome years together so far.

Nancy :)

[Wings]

Monogamy is a choice .... just as marriage is a choice. I think George Clooney has worked this out .... monogamy is not for him.

[9eagle9]

Woman you have some nards.... I mean that respectfully and sincerely .

If i ever muster up my own nards to go on a date would you come and be my translator?






no not me 3 X wifes and five kids monogamys ok for the weekend { think No 4 will work had 7 years court ship this time } should i pop the question ?
7 years!!???? Geeez, you ARE slow in making up your mind. LOL... Please pop the question! My present husband and I got married 3 weeks after meeting and it's the 4th (and last) marriage for both of us. 15 awesome years together so far.

Nancy :)

[Loren]

Being honest with and knowing yourself is the first step, not that I have been that good at it in my youth but experience helps. So how many lives will it take ? Monogamy to me would be the most spiritual experience if you are ready for it, then I am sure it will find you.Magic, twin souls... Not your average every day merging if you know what I mean ! Two souls becoming one exploding into the cosmos.Not something the average person gets to experience or even understands. I,m sure if that relationship happens you would cherish it. L

[Seikou-Kishi]

Even if it's natural, it doesn't necessarily mean it's good. Even if it's unnatural, it doesn't necessarily mean it's bad.

[Lord Sidious]

Being honest with and knowing yourself is the first step, not that I have been that good at it in my youth but experience helps. So how many lives will it take ? Monogamy to me would be the most spiritual experience if you are ready for it, then I am sure it will find you.Magic, twin souls... Not your average every day merging if you know what I mean ! Two souls becoming one exploding into the cosmos.Not something the average person gets to experience or even understands. I,m sure if that relationship happens you would cherish it. L

Sorry Loren, I couldn't find the LEGENDARY POST button, so thanks is all I can do.
These are the sorts of posts that tell me avalon and the avalonuggets are worth the effort.
This is exactly, down to the atom what I am on about when I speak of merging and why I only want one goddess in my heart.

[paul1972]

Ok here's me: To me having one sexual partner is a tad absurd. It just doesn't seem natural. It's like someone made this rule "Since you are so emotionally weak, more than one sexual partner will destroy your life so dont do it" and everyone has the program downloaded, but at the same time I'm not that emotionally weak. At all. But the "rule" makes us all believe we are, and thus obey it. Having more than one relationship partner at time is a bit more odd, but I still see nothing wrong if all parties are fully conscious and aware (aka - no cultish brainwashing - thats just plain wrong) -- after all I'm not one with authority to judge anyone (but one girlfriend is usually quite enough thanks ;))


In a perfect world, strong negative feelings won't exist ... sure opens up possibilities for a richer interactive experience IMHO.

Edit: I think it may be important to note -- I have been extremely monogamous in my life ...Thank you, DeDukshyn, I agree with what you're saying...

if we want people to have free will, Monogamy is still a strong issue to tackle...

[soulsinger]

I am married to my dear soulmate. We've been together since age 18... This year, we both turn 36, so we will have loved each other fully half of our lives...

We do cherish our soulmate relationship, but we are not monogamous. Having relationships beyond our marriage does not feel AT ALL as if we're taking each other for granted. We just need to be ourselves. Sometimes that has led us to cultivate connections to others... and sometimes we just stick with each other. The different seasons of life bring their possibilities.

[giovonni]

Well god bless you all whether you have one or many regardless the number I have no idea how you do it. I find it amazing actually. I'm rather in awe.

I used to be the run of the mill monogamist.

Now I'm a total ultimate monogamist, there is me and me in this relationship. I'm nice to me, and polite and respectful to me. I'm honest with me, I pick up after me, I don't shout at myself, or sulk about work or the activities that compose my life. I don't scream at me for not making enough money. I don't scream at me to choose between my life and me. I'm not always wheedling me or intruding on me all hours of the day when I'm at work making demands that I am quite unable to fulfill. I don't accuse me of looking at the bag boy at the grocery store. I don't compare me to the girls on tv, neither do I threaten me that I will find another me if I don't get my way. I don't form strange sexual addictions with me. I don't cheat on me or criticize the way I dress. I don't raise my voice or hit me. I don't play mind games and manipulate me. I don't prod at me till the point of anger. I don't demand that I go out every night and engage in this frantic socialization. Me and me are completely compatible we like the same books, we both like to ride and fish, garden and woodcraft, music, taste in vehicles, a completely peaceful cohabitation.

My hats off to you all cause I don't know how you do it. You must be God.

Now. Is merging like having someone riding your ass all day or am I thinking of something different?

i enjoyed that rant young Lady :hug:

Perhaps it's kinda like...merging the you and me in all of us back to being one again ~ But always love thyself first :)

[Pagan]

In our society of today one can see, It's quite hard to keep it together, wich makes the children suffer, when parents getting divorced.

Nowadays there is just way to many fatherless(most cases) children. When we left the multi-generation-countryside-style of living, with all the relatives close by, family members got urban and spread around allover country, wich destroyed the fundament for the children to have other Idols than their parents... who divorced.

A man and a woman living in a house alone with their children just not seems to be a functional/safe set up. As a little relationship failure can affect the children in quite negative way. Wich would in an old-ways- village ofc be less negative.

Monogamous way is something late in human history, I think. As It is so hard to keep together and as "I love you forever" only happens for a very few. Feelings change and love comes and love goes.

I don't think we were monogamous from beginning. It's too utopic as a concept...

[sshenry]

Being honest with and knowing yourself is the first step, not that I have been that good at it in my youth but experience helps. So how many lives will it take ? Monogamy to me would be the most spiritual experience if you are ready for it, then I am sure it will find you.Magic, twin souls... Not your average every day merging if you know what I mean ! Two souls becoming one exploding into the cosmos.Not something the average person gets to experience or even understands. I,m sure if that relationship happens you would cherish it. L

Thank you thank you THANK YOU!

I don't know how many times I've tried to explain this concept to peopole - thre is only one condition in which monogamy will 'take' and be totally natural, and that is when you have found the one person who's energy balances yours (not completes yours - you should already be complete in and of yourselves - but balances). Why, then, would you want anyone else? Why then would you NEED anyone else?

People can moan and groan about how monagamy isn't natural (I have a side story I'll tell one day, how, when I was little, I tried to explain to my mother about my grandfather's beautiful monagamy desk, but I'll save that for another time) and the truth is - as it is practiced (and used) today, it is NOT natural, because it is relying far too heavilyl on the 'morality' of the issue. True manogamy cannot be forced or coerced, because while the person may remain faithful in body, their mind will be rebelling, because at the core, whether you realize it or not, everyone is looking for that ultimate cosmic, twin soul merging.

Merging with someone who is completely and totally your equal and with whom, in joining, (body, mind and soul) you become something more than either of you were by yourselves... *no words*

[paul1972]

dear Avalonians,

After opening up this thread - let me share my 2 cents...

Since childhood I have always had bad vibes with...the concept of Marriage...
" Do you REALLY promise each other eternal love and faithfulness...?"
I guess for too many it's been an irrational act or they underestimated their commitment, for a rare few it's PURE BLISS... bless you

I recently became involved in an OPEN relationship with a lady,
in total honesty and freedom towards each other
Without the jealousy component it seems to work having relationships with more than ONE @ the same time...

I've been extremely Monogamous all my life, but @ this moment it feels ludicrous to me...(having no kids involved BTW)..maybe it's just a phase I am going through
but I am feeling free now

What ever you prefer... stay open minded and liberate the people in their free thinking.

Love

Paul1972

[ulli]

Whatever two people agree on is fine.
Cheating is the real issue, whether married or not, monogamous or not.

Once children are around there is real hurt if either partner goes off with someone else because there will be resentment,
one person doing all the work, while the other is getting it off with someone else.

Schwarzenegger now has to face the divorce courts, because his wife won't forgive him.
She is hurt.
I wonder if they would have agreed to an open relationship, initially?

[Seikou-Kishi]

I think we have to take a few definitions first:


Monogamy - Marriage to one person
Polygamy - Marriage to multiple people. This is illegal, but the word is usually used as substitute for polyamory
Polyamory - Love and/or sexual relations with multiple people.


Monogamy is seen in a few animal species, so it *is* natural in the sense that animals do it. The distinction should be made obvious between an open relationship and a 'closed' relationship in which one of the people is cheating on the other. Cheating on anybody cannot be justified without appealing to an egoistic rationale.

[red_rose]

Being honest with and knowing yourself is the first step, not that I have been that good at it in my youth but experience helps. So how many lives will it take ? Monogamy to me would be the most spiritual experience if you are ready for it, then I am sure it will find you.Magic, twin souls... Not your average every day merging if you know what I mean ! Two souls becoming one exploding into the cosmos.Not something the average person gets to experience or even understands. I,m sure if that relationship happens you would cherish it. L

Sorry Loren, I couldn't find the LEGENDARY POST button, so thanks is all I can do.
These are the sorts of posts that tell me avalon and the avalonuggets are worth the effort.
This is exactly, down to the atom what I am on about when I speak of merging and why I only want one goddess in my heart.

Oh my god you guys.....that's what I dream of!!!

Is it really real?

Do you guys have this? I hope so, so then I know it can actually happen.

In awe.

red_rose

[sshenry]

Whatever two people agree on is fine.
Cheating is the real issue, whether married or not, monogamous or not.

Once children are around there is real hurt if either partner goes off with someone else because there will be resentment,
one person doing all the work, while the other is getting it off with someone else.

Schwarzenegger now has to face the divorce courts, because his wife won't forgive him.
She is hurt.
I wonder if they would have agreed to an open relationship, initially?

Hello ulli - this isn't exactly in direct response to what you wrote here - but it did start me thinking.

Both the concept of monogamy and the marriage relationship have become somewhat twisted. If you think about it, in seven out of ten cases when a person enters into a marriage relationship or agrees to be monogamous in a relationship (or demands a monogamous relationship) it isn't so much about wanting to be with that one person - and that one person only - now and forever (or for as long as the relationship lasts). It is about selfishness and jealousy.

'I want you - I want you all for myself - and I don't want you getting this close to anyone else' throw in the patriarichal emphasis on paternal lineage (much simpler to just know who your mother is - no doubts about that one, eh?) and you have a right mess.

And where does all this chaotic relationship energy come from? It's generated from fear of course. Fear that you'll loose what you have, that you'll never get it back, or that you won't be able to 'measure up' to rival. That's why I believe that the only truly sucessful monogamous relationships are those that happen spontaneously when two who were meant to be together (on a body, mind and soul level) experience the complete fearlessness that comes from KNOWING and not hoping or wanting.

[Lord Sidious]

Being honest with and knowing yourself is the first step, not that I have been that good at it in my youth but experience helps. So how many lives will it take ? Monogamy to me would be the most spiritual experience if you are ready for it, then I am sure it will find you.Magic, twin souls... Not your average every day merging if you know what I mean ! Two souls becoming one exploding into the cosmos.Not something the average person gets to experience or even understands. I,m sure if that relationship happens you would cherish it. L

Sorry Loren, I couldn't find the LEGENDARY POST button, so thanks is all I can do.
These are the sorts of posts that tell me avalon and the avalonuggets are worth the effort.
This is exactly, down to the atom what I am on about when I speak of merging and why I only want one goddess in my heart.

Oh my god you guys.....that's what I dream of!!!

Is it really real?

Do you guys have this? I hope so, so then I know it can actually happen.

In awe.

red_rose

Not yet, but it is possible for me.

[sshenry]

I think we have to take a few definitions first:


Monogamy - Marriage to one person
Polygamy - Marriage to multiple people. This is illegal, but the word is usually used as substitute for polyamory
Polyamory - Love and/or sexual relations with multiple people.


Monogamy is seen in a few animal species, so it *is* natural in the sense that animals do it. The distinction should be made obvious between an open relationship and a 'closed' relationship in which one of the people is cheating on the other. Cheating on anybody cannot be justified without appealing to an egoistic rationale.

Actually, the definition of monogamy as being married to only one person is only ONE of the definitions of monogamy.

It is also the practice or condition of having a single sexual partner during a period of time.

And it can also be defined (from a zoological perspective) as having only one partner during a particular mating season.

Guess which definition you choose depends on your perspective :)

[sshenry]

[Oh my god you guys.....that's what I dream of!!!

Is it really real?

Do you guys have this? I hope so, so then I know it can actually happen.

In awe.

red_rose

Oh it's real all right.

I wish I could say that I have experienced it in this lifetime, what I know comes from the memory of what I've had before, a memory that even intervening lifetimes can't dim.

[paul1972]

I think we have to take a few definitions first:


Monogamy - Marriage to one person
Polygamy - Marriage to multiple people. This is illegal, but the word is usually used as substitute for polyamory
Polyamory - Love and/or sexual relations with multiple people.


Monogamy is seen in a few animal species, so it *is* natural in the sense that animals do it. The distinction should be made obvious between an open relationship and a 'closed' relationship in which one of the people is cheating on the other. Cheating on anybody cannot be justified without appealing to an egoistic rationale.

Actually, the definition of monogamy as being married to only one person is only ONE of the definitions of monogamy.

It is also the practice or condition of having a single sexual partner during a period of time.

And it can also be defined (from a zoological perspective) as having only one partner during a particular mating season.

Guess which definition you choose depends on your perspective :)

I guess people are "mind controlled" to put everything in BOXES...free your mind and the rest will follow..

Love

Paul1972

[Arpheus]

I have always been faithful in my married days only to be stabbed in the back and to learn that she was doing it for months,now what i dont get it is this,why would you bother to a commitment if your not going to abide by it?And if your feeling like stepping out of line at least have the dignity to have the balls to end the relationship before going that route and hurting someone and leaving scars that although will heal they will remain as part of your life for as long as you live,i realize women dont have balls but you get what i am saying LOL,hope i didnt offend anyone,and ultimately being male and lived throught it i can assure you women do bad things as well ,anyway been divorced ever since and i dont want nothing to do with the opposite sex for now,i am just fine thanks !:p
Not to mention that when you sort of wake up to how crazy this world really is is almost impossible for you to find someone whio is as crazy as you are LOL,so yeah being single isnt so bad after all trust me hehe.Now about monogamy i still believe thats the best way for one to find true balance but i aint looking for it,at least not at the moment anyway ehhe.

[Carmody]

Being honest with and knowing yourself is the first step, not that I have been that good at it in my youth but experience helps. So how many lives will it take ? Monogamy to me would be the most spiritual experience if you are ready for it, then I am sure it will find you.Magic, twin souls... Not your average every day merging if you know what I mean ! Two souls becoming one exploding into the cosmos.Not something the average person gets to experience or even understands. I,m sure if that relationship happens you would cherish it. L

Sorry Loren, I couldn't find the LEGENDARY POST button, so thanks is all I can do.
These are the sorts of posts that tell me avalon and the avalonuggets are worth the effort.
This is exactly, down to the atom what I am on about when I speak of merging and why I only want one goddess in my heart.

Oh my god you guys.....that's what I dream of!!!

Is it really real?

Do you guys have this? I hope so, so then I know it can actually happen.

In awe.

red_rose

Not yet, but it is possible for me.

That's what I'm all about. I looking to share dreams, connections, voice, sound, smell. Total psychic connection. Including astral projection and travel. If I cant get that, then I'm satisfied with nothing. As nothing else compares.

[ulli]

I have always been faithful in my married days only to be stabbed in the back and to learn that she was doing it for months,now what i dont get it is this,why would you bother to a commitment if your not going to abide by it?And if your feeling like stepping out of line at least have the dignity to have the balls to end the relationship before going that route and hurting someone and leaving scars that although will heal they will remain as part of your life for as long as you live,i realize women dont have balls but you get what i am saying LOL,hope i didnt offend anyone,and ultimately being male and lived throught it i can assure you women do bad things as well ,anyway been divorced ever since and i dont want nothing to do with the opposite sex for now,i am just fine thanks !:p
Not to mention that when you sort of wake up to how crazy this world really is is almost impossible for you to find someone whio is as crazy as you are LOL,so yeah being single isnt so bad after all trust me hehe.Now about monogamy i still believe thats the best way for one to find true balance but i aint looking for it,at least not at the moment anyway ehhe.

when you fall in love again, either give it time before you commit or go to a good astrologer...
make that two, it's always good to get a second opinion...

better still, learn how to read charts yourself.

Then you can ride out the difficult times, or see her weaknesses for what they are...
because nobody is perfect...

[9eagle9]

People including myself have to know , that its okay to want someone who is of the same value of them. The same sort of person.

But we work on our self and work on our own self value and end up settling for people who have baggage they don't ever intend on or want to set down, but reserve it to beat you over the head with.

There are people who are not monogamous ...so....whatever floats their boat i'm just not getting on the marry-go-round with them. I have choices. Some of those sorts of people will insist you do an make sure you do even if they have to lie, cheat an steal to get you there. Its a way of propping themselves up at another expense. Then there are those who cheat as form of punishment and control. A drama can be created because the drama is a replacement for those who don't know how to create true excitement.

When I say that I am holding out for the same sort of person as myself, this is perceived as narcissism but I've done a lot of work on myself for that other person (whomever they are) so what is the point of tossing all that work away on someone who doesn't even see it let alone appreciate it? Why else are we doing it but to make our world and whom ever is going to be in it a better place. So basically someone who has done that same sort of work on themselves.

And if they aren't out there...then the work wasn't wasted because I'm quite content to be alone rather than settle for someone who will drag down my self value when its taken me so long to find it.

[sllim11]

what a great thread! i think that i was raised/brainwashed to grow up and get married and have kids... the end. happily ever after right?!?!?!? um well and no. didn't turn out like i was told it would or how i thought it would. so a decade and 2 kids later we are divorcing. and i really doubt if i will do that again. i think monogamy yes. forever maybe/maybe not, probably more l;likely not. i believe marriage is completely outdated. and was/is a way to control us. it's like 'hold on to this' spouse 'hold on to this' house 'hold on to that' kids... then you will be safe. you will be grounded and settled and not be able to change or move. because truth be told, i fear change, we all do to some degree. it is scary. so they tell me these things, this way, i will be set. SET. shall a say stuck? and i believed them. i was younger and now i am a completely different person than i was when i married due to all the large amounts of work i have put inn. to my self. to find i am completely whole alone. and have found the most unlikely partner now that breaks all the boundaries i thought were there. it is truly an enlightened relationship of being. we do not talk of the future. we stay focused on the day we are in. monogamous yes. forever? who knows. but the beautiful thing is it does NOT matter. and in that we are free.

[Deborah (ahamkara)]

Thoughtful answers. There are many types of personalities and each of us is at a different stage on our journey. For some, as they learn and grow, new partners will be a requirement to fit the new vibrational pattern. A few may find their true soul mate/equal and enjoy a blissful union. Others may need time alone to develop into who they truly are.

We need balance, as one poster noted, but that is found in different ways, at different times, for most people. The trickiest part of the relationship dance seems to be getting into and out of relationships with a minimum of confusion and hurt. The structure of our society is VERY isolating and so often people enter into relationships to avoid lonliness, NOT because they have found "The One".

As one becomes healtier and more balanced internally, the laws of attraction bring more desireable relationships. Like the old Rolling Stones song pointed out "You can't always get what you want.... but if you try sometime, you just might find.......you get what you need"

[bilko]

Monogamy?
God just the sound of it.
Mon-og-amy...

Can i love someone for my lifetime? Yes.
Can i control my sexual urges? Yes, if she is worth it.
Marriage is not about monogamy its so much more than that, so much more.

If she makes me feel good about myself, i will cherish her forever.
If she leaves me wanting, abandons me to my hopes and dreams then i shall scrape the bottom of the barrel.

[ulli]

Thoughtful answers. There are many types of personalities and each of us is at a different stage on our journey. For some, as they learn and grow, new partners will be a requirement to fit the new vibrational pattern. A few may find their true soul mate/equal and enjoy a blissful union. Others may need time alone to develop into who they truly are.

We need balance, as one poster noted, but that is found in different ways, at different times, for most people. The trickiest part of the relationship dance seems to be getting into and out of relationships with a minimum of confusion and hurt. The structure of our society is VERY isolating and so often people enter into relationships to avoid lonliness, NOT because they have found "The One".

As one becomes healtier and more balanced internally, the laws of attraction bring more desireable relationships. Like the old Rolling Stones song pointed out "You can't always get what you want.... but if you try sometime, you just might find.......you get what you need"


may I add one more here please
irrespective of whether the vibrational rate is different...

when is it ever the same, anyway, as it shifts and changes daily...

a relationship is about physical intimacy, that means 3D.
that's the one that sets the tone from the beginning.

After that, if the verbal communications don't work out 100% one can always get entertained by Avalon...

Main thing is that all relationships offer opportunities for spiritual development and growth...
I always say, try and recall those early days, when it all began,
and then build on that.
Go and look at the old photo albums...

[Wings]

In current language usage, monogamy often refers to having one sexual partner irrespective of marriage.

Loren hit the nail on the head .... unfortunately many marriages fail because this type of twin soul relationship is rare, and because for some (many) physical urges tend to override anything else.

I'm not surprised Maria Shriver is divorcing Schwarzenegger. He had a good thing going and he blew it.

[red_rose]

Being honest with and knowing yourself is the first step, not that I have been that good at it in my youth but experience helps. So how many lives will it take ? Monogamy to me would be the most spiritual experience if you are ready for it, then I am sure it will find you.Magic, twin souls... Not your average every day merging if you know what I mean ! Two souls becoming one exploding into the cosmos.Not something the average person gets to experience or even understands. I,m sure if that relationship happens you would cherish it. L

Sorry Loren, I couldn't find the LEGENDARY POST button, so thanks is all I can do.
These are the sorts of posts that tell me avalon and the avalonuggets are worth the effort.
This is exactly, down to the atom what I am on about when I speak of merging and why I only want one goddess in my heart.

Oh my god you guys.....that's what I dream of!!!

Is it really real?

Do you guys have this? I hope so, so then I know it can actually happen.

In awe.

red_rose

Not yet, but it is possible for me.

That's what I'm all about. I looking to share dreams, connections, voice, sound, smell. Total psychic connection. Including astral projection and travel. If I cant get that, then I'm satisfied with nothing. As nothing else compares.



I'm in an 8 year relationship. I love my partner, but it's not the kind of love that I would dream of as a child, it's a drastically diluted version.

I got to the thinking that the love I love is something that only exists in fantasy, but you guys are helping me otherwise.

I still don't know what to do about my partner. It would destroy him if I left him, I'm his world. But what would my reasons be, because I do love him but I'm not in love with our love.

Anyone else been in the same boat?

red_rose

ps. I think this needs it's own thread, the idea of 'cosmic love'. I'm a numpty on computers....mods could you help pretty please???? xxx

[ThePythonicCow]

ps. I think this needs it's own thread, the idea of 'cosmic love'. I'm a numpty on computers....mods could you help pretty please???? xxx
To start your own thread in the same sub-forum as this current thread, look up near the top of this page where you will see a line with the words

Forum --> Project Avalon --> Off-Topic --> Express Yourself --> Is Monogamy Natural?Click on the word Off-Topic in that line, and then click on the click on the big blue button that says + Post New Thread, slightly further down from the top, left side.

This will place you in a screen where you can enter the Thread Title and the Contents of the first post for that thread. Then you can Preview you work, correct any errors, and Submit it to the Off-Topic sub-form.

You can also click on the word Forum in that same line as above, and navigate the Forum hierarchy and select a different sub-forum for your post, if you have something to post that would fit better in a different sub-forum.

[HaveBlue]

Short answer is NO. Even the penguins down antarctica have a bit on the side from time to time. Birds mate for life so we are told remember. (not true)
I have had a few relationships in my life and not been 'unfaithful' to any so I'm not biased. I remain on good terms with all. The last one died of cancer and strangely enough my current car is in for rust repairs right now! (see below)

Rose, best not drag it out if it is inevitable. needy men especially are such a turn off! Even for me and I am one and not gay either. It is hard but I have had to tell a couple of women that they will have to leave me as our time is almost up. I don't dump them as such, and make sure they leave with dignity, a place to live etc.. Living a lie is not on for either of you. We are all better off. All good things come to an end. Nothing lasts forever, not even diamonds! yes that's a lie we've been told too! nothing is impervious to the sun- not even diamonds and no they are not a girls best friend either. chocolate is.

Look, it's like the current car you have. You can keep fixing it but you will eventually replace it with something else. Just don't get a worse one. Always upwards. sometimes they get stolen or just konk out. Breaking down all the time is no fun. But if it suits you hang onto it. treat it well and maintain it.
It's well known that if it has tits or a motor then you WILL have trouble with it! The reverse can be said of course too if you a female. But I will always need to have a car even If I don't actually own it. We like people for how they make US feel. If they make us feel good, we like them. If not we don't like them. It's that simple.

I can think of many more sayings, cliches' adages etc... but I think you get the picture. I wonder how much my car will cost tomorrow?

[sshenry]

I'm in an 8 year relationship. I love my partner, but it's not the kind of love that I would dream of as a child, it's a drastically diluted version.

I got to the thinking that the love I love is something that only exists in fantasy, but you guys are helping me otherwise.

I still don't know what to do about my partner. It would destroy him if I left him, I'm his world. But what would my reasons be, because I do love him but I'm not in love with our love.

Anyone else been in the same boat?

red_rose

ps. I think this needs it's own thread, the idea of 'cosmic love'. I'm a numpty on computers....mods could you help pretty please???? xxx

Yes actually, except I am in a 21 year relationship :)

I've been married to the same man for over half my life now. We have two beautiful children. He works hard. We've built a home together. A life together. We make a great team, but there is something missing, and I know exactly what it is, we do not have a spiritual partnership. He has absolutely no interest (or belief in) spirituality, and it is a fact that leaves me empty and aching for more, but I would have absolutely no rational reason to end the relationship, even though there is a part of me that aches to have more than what he can give me. In short, we're partners, but we are not soulmates, let alone twinflames, we do not even have a spiritual partnership.

To me, a spiritual partnership is about a partnership between equals where each supports the other's spiritual growth. Spiritual partners support each other on their journey to self-discovery. Being without a spiritual partner makes the going more difficult, but it does not make it impossible. I was surprised, actually, to find that there was a book that had been written about this, because it was something I'd been feeling for a very long time. In his book "Spiritual Partnership" Gary Zukav talkes about how people are, through reflection and inner work, changing, growing and becoming, and how they are becoming "new" men and women with deeper focus and purpose. He also talks about what happens when you are in a relationship where one person becomes a "new" person while the other stays the same. He states that either one person changing will become a catalyst for the other to change, or the relationship will fall apart as the person with the 'old' values and focus becomes increasingly annoyed with and unsatisfied with the 'new' person.

Obviously, neither of these options happens overnight, but neither has to be 'helped' they will happen spontaneously.

The key of course is to be completely open and honest with your partner. To let them know how you are feeling, not to hide your interests and/or abilities. If they accept you, ALL of you, then you may be on your way to a catalyst scenario. If not, then your marriage may head in the other direction. Either way, remain true to yourself and things WILL fall into place.

[Lord Sidious]

I'm in an 8 year relationship. I love my partner, but it's not the kind of love that I would dream of as a child, it's a drastically diluted version.

I got to the thinking that the love I love is something that only exists in fantasy, but you guys are helping me otherwise.

I still don't know what to do about my partner. It would destroy him if I left him, I'm his world. But what would my reasons be, because I do love him but I'm not in love with our love.

Anyone else been in the same boat?

red_rose

ps. I think this needs it's own thread, the idea of 'cosmic love'. I'm a numpty on computers....mods could you help pretty please???? xxx

Yes actually, except I am in a 21 year relationship :)

I've been married to the same man for over half my life now. We have two beautiful children. He works hard. We've built a home together. A life together. We make a great team, but there is something missing, and I know exactly what it is, we do not have a spiritual partnership. He has absolutely no interest (or belief in) spirituality, and it is a fact that leaves me empty and aching for more, but I would have absolutely no rational reason to end the relationship, even though there is a part of me that aches to have more than what he can give me. In short, we're partners, but we are not soulmates, let alone twinflames, we do not even have a spiritual partnership.

To me, a spiritual partnership is about a partnership between equals where each supports the other's spiritual growth. Spiritual partners support each other on their journey to self-discovery. Being without a spiritual partner makes the going more difficult, but it does not make it impossible. I was surprised, actually, to find that there was a book that had been written about this, because it was something I'd been feeling for a very long time. In his book "Spiritual Partnership" Gary Zukav talkes about how people are, through reflection and inner work, changing, growing and becoming, and how they are becoming "new" men and women with deeper focus and purpose. He also talks about what happens when you are in a relationship where one person becomes a "new" person while the other stays the same. He states that either one person changing will become a catalyst for the other to change, or the relationship will fall apart as the person with the 'old' values and focus becomes increasingly annoyed with and unsatisfied with the 'new' person.

Obviously, neither of these options happens overnight, but neither has to be 'helped' they will happen spontaneously.

The key of course is to be completely open and honest with your partner. To let them know how you are feeling, not to hide your interests and/or abilities. If they accept you, ALL of you, then you may be on your way to a catalyst scenario. If not, then your marriage may head in the other direction. Either way, remain true to yourself and things WILL fall into place.

I am sorry to hear that your husband doesn't give you that important bit you need.
I can't give you any advice, sorry.
Not unless you need to learn various lightsabre techniques. :p

[sshenry]

I am sorry to hear that your husband doesn't give you that important bit you need.
I can't give you any advice, sorry.
Not unless you need to learn various lightsabre techniques. :p

Thank's Sid, it's enough that you read and understand :)

you know, though, the way we've been sparring lately over issues that I refuse to back down on, I might take you up on thelightsabre lessons :)

[Gaia]

Natural can mean several things :

A) Produced by nature as opposed to produced by man
B) Uncivil, as in being in the state of nature
C) In accordance with nature (as opposed to unnatural)

To give a few examples, but it would be best to be specific about the definition ;)

Marriage is a legal construct so it is not natural in sense 2, and thus also 1. It does not go against the end of nature so it is natural in sense 3.

That said, marriage is not about love, it is about sex, its contractual obligation being that of being faithful i.e. not cheating on your spouse. Not loving your spouse or loving someone outside marriage is not relevant. This doesn't mean it is a mere contract. The natural basis of marriage is the intercommunity of the sexes. The problem marriage attempts to solve is that of sexual objectification, which is using the other person as a mere thing for the sake of sexual gratification (As opposed to use of person at the same time being ends) When one allows oneself to be used in this manner one is giving up one's personhood, and the only way to retain it is through lifelong mutual possession of each other's person, since one cannot obtain a part of the person without obtaining the person as a whole, without treating that person as a mere thing, which is also why it is only possible in a monogamous form, since if a third person enter into the marriage, he can only obtain partial possession of a person.


Kindest regards

Gaia

[Isostool]

Is monogamy natural?
lol

NO

[9eagle9]

I think a co dependency discussion before the cosmic love discussion would be adviseable.

If we leapt into these notions of cosmic love because we can't get our heads around love in the purest form..we won't do any better there. Love in it's purest form is love without co dependency present.

"". Love is fawlty so there has to be some cosmic love to make up for it" ?????

No.

If we don't get our heads around human love we aren't going to fair better with cosmic love. The apprentice attempts to become the mage too quickly because the understanding of magick is too much. But a mage without magick is no mage at all.

Love in it's highest human expression would be akin to cosmic love. Love isn't faulty we're failing to clean up our act enough to take the risk that is necessary to find love in its whole form which basically works on its own in a cosmic manner IF ALLOWED its true expression. And expression without co dependency attached to it.

Cosmic love is not going to express itself either if we can't get our heads around plain old ordinary love. Mostly because of co dependency. Co dependency is rampant and its horribly erosive to relationships. Usually not to the co dependent but to the dependee.

On an energetic level I perceive men like that as feeders, their vampires unintentionally --women too I'm sure but I'm looking at it from a straight female perspective.

If you are your partners world he's co dependent (some people call it needy) Co dependency is not love, is a state of woundedness. It's need instead of want. I'd much rather have someone want me than need me--- that places you in an obligation, one that nearly becomes servitude.

YOu are a woman not a mother, a need fulfiller.

The relationship can even bring in a pedophilia energy into it the more a man becomes needy on his partner or co dependent the man is tapping into a place he don't belong--maternal energies. Your partnership becomes like Mother-Son. . That is expressed on an intuitive level where something just feels WRONG. Sex becomes off putting because the energy is wrong there.

Maybe your relationship was based on shared wounds, that cause a HUGE attraction...but still isn't really love. Eventually in co dependent relationships someone, unless they are absolutely stagnant, has some sort of growth or healing, and it has a feeling of being out of love because you've stepped back from the attractive wound.

A relationship is a unit composed of two people, if one grows a little or faster than the other the relationship changes. Unfortunately one person enables another's co dependency and one carries the entire relationship.

You perceive that you are responsible for their happiness, that isn't love. Ideally we should be happy on our own and then someone who is happy on their own comes along and we complement each other's happiness. If ever I am tempted for the wrong reasons I think of co dependency and shrivel. Its like a smack in the face. There is nothing that drains me faster than co dependent people.

Co dependency also expresses itself as 'absence is confused for abandonment.'

We have to strive for interdependency.

There's passive co dependents and there's aggressive co dependents. Passives think nothing of emotional extortion which is subtle guise confused for kindness.. Aggressive demand angrily over and over things that you are not able to provide to them because they are asking for something you can't give them. Why should you when they are quite unwilling to shift and find it for themselves

Neither of them have boundaries. The aggressive one's perceive me as a challenge, like I'm playing hard to get. "I'm not playing, I AM hard to get. You don't get me because you're used to the same old codependency game and your terrible anger and shouting at me that I'm a 'psycho bitch' doesn't phase me. It just means I don't pick up the phone anymore, I don't owe you any explanations because you wouldn't get it anyway."

You can't say no to them so there's nothing to say.

I clawed my insides apart trying to find out what was inside me attracting these co dependent men, because I KNOW I ain't co dependent even if it was a tiny part of me that needs to be needed (that will bring them in in droves). Finally I came to the conclusion that is so epidemic that's little else out there. They don't ever see you as a real person, you're just a form of need fullfillment.

Co dependency has become so classically apparent I can spot one by their hand gestures. They don't touch you they grasp and grab on to you even if its annoying and even if its painful. It's a reflection of whats going on inside of them. Everything they do is to get something from you. Nothing is ever done out of genuine giving its done to score points for future collection from you. You get drained fast because you are aware of this on some level.

I view dating as a time of evaluation. You get to know someone and determine if a more cohesive relationship can be formed from it. Or not.

Co dependents consider the time of the first date going forward as 'the relationship'. They literally force themselves into your life either passively or aggressively. All of them create drama if they don't get their way. They ignore all boundaries.

This man who put himself forward as a very nice man who treats women like queens comes knocking on my door with his speil. Somehow all his queens treat him like **** in spite of his generous nature. He's actually quite contemptuous of women I notice right off. .Small wonder he's passively controlling. His MO was overiding all independent behavior like a woman picking up the tab for dinner. A subtle form of putting one under obligation so the guilt trip can be imposed later. After failing to keep my 24 hour attention and after only having known him for three or four days he offers to PAY me so I don't have to work so much(ie: pay more attention to him). Some women ....well they think this is romantic. He loaned his girlfriends money to ensure they're complete attention. He's 'looking' out for them.

No he's not he's looking out for himself.

I thought I was going to throw up on my boots. I nailed him on it and told him he was an emotional extortionist, because one begins to spot them very quickly when one knows what to look for ...and when one isn't co dependent themselves. I have noticed with co dependent men they arrow in the things that 'may' take up most of your focus with them. Kids, jobs, friends, family and even animals. They don't want to ingratiate in there and meld they want to separate you from that. Their vampires. Those are what the dramas are centered around. A guilt drama ---some sort of drama.

And that is the hard part, scissoring out your own co dependency or needing to be needed

And co dependency has a great deal to do with monogamy.

While some are content with the one providing for their need, many of them will stray to have their neediness fulfilled elsewhere The Attention Whore Co-dependent. .You gotta work late one evening....hey who is there to pay attention to their need? No one..so off they go. Their neediness is more important to the relationship. It drives them this need does to engage in activities outside of the relationship. Not neccessarily physical cheating but inappropriate behavior, undue attention to others that stops just short of actually doing anything wrong (or so they think).

Not because of sex because of the need for attention. The sexual straying or extracurricular activity is just how that need is expressed. They are co dependent and needy so they will feed the need anywhere they can.







Being honest with and knowing yourself is the first step, not that I have been that good at it in my youth but experience helps. So how many lives will it take ? Monogamy to me would be the most spiritual experience if you are ready for it, then I am sure it will find you.Magic, twin souls... Not your average every day merging if you know what I mean ! Two souls becoming one exploding into the cosmos.Not something the average person gets to experience or even understands. I,m sure if that relationship happens you would cherish it. L

Sorry Loren, I couldn't find the LEGENDARY POST button, so thanks is all I can do.
These are the sorts of posts that tell me avalon and the avalonuggets are worth the effort.
This is exactly, down to the atom what I am on about when I speak of merging and why I only want one goddess in my heart.

Oh my god you guys.....that's what I dream of!!!

Is it really real?

Do you guys have this? I hope so, so then I know it can actually happen.

In awe.

red_rose

Not yet, but it is possible for me.

That's what I'm all about. I looking to share dreams, connections, voice, sound, smell. Total psychic connection. Including astral projection and travel. If I cant get that, then I'm satisfied with nothing. As nothing else compares.



I'm in an 8 year relationship. I love my partner, but it's not the kind of love that I would dream of as a child, it's a drastically diluted version.

I got to the thinking that the love I love is something that only exists in fantasy, but you guys are helping me otherwise.

I still don't know what to do about my partner. It would destroy him if I left him, I'm his world. But what would my reasons be, because I do love him but I'm not in love with our love.

Anyone else been in the same boat?

red_rose

ps. I think this needs it's own thread, the idea of 'cosmic love'. I'm a numpty on computers....mods could you help pretty please???? xxx

[Steven]

It is cultural. But culture is part of nature :) So, at some extend, it is natural. Some animals have cultural aspects develop in their group. At some point, we can argue if culture is part Nature or not. I would say yes.

But in this case, polygamy is also natural. :) So both are. Hehe.

Namaste, Steven

[TigerLilly]

Great thread - its a shame its restricted to members only!

To me monogamy is not linked to marriage and is rarely for life, its simply about honesty, truth and remaining faithful within your current relationship.

As many have said in this thread we change and as we do we are nolonger on the same wavelength as our partners and it is time to move on.

People are generally unfaithful because they have not got the courage to end a relationship and go it alone until the right person comes along. So they hang on , play around and often jump into another wrong relationship just to get away. Co dependency and needyness as 9eagle9 says.

If we want to find that great equal relationship based on love, truth, and respect, firstly we have to be free and independant.

Once we do find it then certainly monogamy is natural.

[mymoonlightshines]

I loged on to this forum for the first time in weeks today and I am posting for the first time in months... Just happens that I am dealing with this exact issue in my life and I feel the need to share my post from Facebook regarding this issue. I hope you all do not mind the re-post I just feel that it is extremely relevent...

posted may 18, 2011 1:00 am

Okay all, many of you are wondering why my relationship status has changed to "open relationship" and many of you have judgement and fear around this, and to you I say I am greatful for your concern. However I ask that you have faith in my decision and keep and open mind.



Polyamory means many loves. I know this idea is dificult for many of you and I commend you for having the courage to explore the concept at all. I feel that we as humans, have the oportunity to love many people in this life, and in many different ways. Having an open relationship means that neither of us have any type of restrictions in regards to this (or anything else for that matter). We have faith in eachother to make good decisions and even good mistakes. This gives both of us the freedom to explore feelings for other people in a way that is open, honest and supportive. In this way we are free to form friendships, or even intimate relationships with others without contstantly being put in the position of choosing one or the other.



The logistics are somewhat complicated and should really be worked out between each individual couple. Our counselor Tim calls this Negotiation. One strength that Nick and my relationship has is that we get along extremely well and our views are primarilly in alignment. Also, we respect and truely love eachother, and we TREAT eachother with respect. For this reason we are able to reach a common ground on almost any issue.



What many people don't understand is that the control we have over another; even a spouse, is merely an illusion. We always have free will and when we try and control something that is beyond our control it leads to anxiety and chaos in the lives of all parties involved. I am free of the illusion, I am simply acknowledging the free will that exists in all of us. Love is infinite and limitless... love can not, and should not be stifled. This is a universal truth and I am choosing to live it.

[NancyV]

I'm in an 8 year relationship. I love my partner, but it's not the kind of love that I would dream of as a child, it's a drastically diluted version.

I got to the thinking that the love I love is something that only exists in fantasy, but you guys are helping me otherwise.

I still don't know what to do about my partner. It would destroy him if I left him, I'm his world. But what would my reasons be, because I do love him but I'm not in love with our love.

Anyone else been in the same boat?

red_rose

Your feelings are similar to the way I felt with my first 3 husbands. It was especially difficult to leave my 2nd husband after 16 years and raising 2 children with him. I loved him very much although it was more like he was my brother or child in many ways. It hurt him terribly when I left but we have stayed friends and he still calls me quite often for advice even though he is also married again. I guess I really was more like his mother and it's got to be more difficult to lose a mother than a wife. It's extremely difficult to leave a relationship where everyone is usually happy and enjoying life, so I wouldn't dream of advising anyone to do so. One must follow their own guidance.

Finally I found my soul mate when I met my 4th husband. From the time I was a child I knew there was someone here on earth I was supposed to find and be with and was amazed that I found him! I have actually loved every lover and every husband, although there are many different kinds of love (some quite lustful !).

I am so thankful that my search finally ended because it was not exactly comfortable being in a happy and loving relationship with a mate yet know that he was not my "true love" or soul mate. There were times when I thought my feelings were all an illusion or wishful thinking, but when I met my soul mate I knew my lifelong feeling of missing part of myself was real, because that feeling disappeared and has not come back in 15 years. Monogamy is the only option in our relationship because we have no interest in anyone else, although neither of us was strictly monogamous in most of our previous relationships.

I have no complaints about the journey. It's all been good.

Nancy :)

[Flash]

Mods, I referred this thread to some personal friends to whom I already referred the forum so we can discuss, they told me this thread in non existent. Then I heard elsewhere it is for members only. Then I checked (could not believe it) and yes, if I don't log on, the thread title does not even appears on the today's post list (whichever page).

1. How many thread like this are for members only?

2. Why was that thread for members only? I truly find it quite benine.

3. Is that possible to be told at the beginnig of the thread that it is for members only? So that we don't lose face with our friends. It is difficult enough to start conspiracy discussions around without having to justify something we are not even aware of. The comments I heard afterwards about transparency were not to Avalon's advantage - no new members coming here from them.

Thanks

[9eagle9]

I would also add about the 'cosmic' relationship.

They are often times not represented in the physical so be careful what you wish for because you may end up with I dryly termed my invisible boyfriend. A person who is living but has no communication with you at all save for on an energetic level. To scared to bring it into the physical and therefore content to take from you on the non physical. Not at all unlike having an attachment. That can be quite frustrating for someone who is looking for a physical companion. Everything even verbal communications is conducted on the 'cosmic' (non physical level) . Very much interferes with your physical face to face relationships, and they can be very very VERY difficult to extricate yourself from.

You can feel like you are on a leash, that you are providing comfort and energy to someone who is not returning it (these sorts of relationships can be just as co dependent) and you get into an uncomfortable relationship of love and hate. Which is not what is about.

And the 'other' person may not even be much aware that they are attaching themselves to you so even if you manage to confront them physically they think your out of your mind. And there were times I thought I was out of my mind until other sensitive adept people would exclaim "Who is that man in your energy all the time."

And they can be serving a purpose, unwittingly, of something that is not quite of the highest good. The PTB have been known to toss disabling people in your path. And in their path too so you get all corded up in some funky crap.

[mymoonlightshines]

Mods: are we allowed to request this thread visable to all? Seems like it may benefit the public yeah?


Mods, I referred this thread to some personal friends to whom I already referred the forum so we can discuss, they told me this thread in non existent. Then I heard elsewhere it is for members only. Then I checked (could not believe it) and yes, if I don't log on, the thread title does not even appears on the today's post list (whichever page).

1. How many thread like this are for members only?

2. Why was that thread for members only? I truly find it quite benine.

3. Is that possible to be told at the beginnig of the thread that it is for members only? So that we don't lose face with our friends. It is difficult enough to start conspiracy discussions around without having to justify something we are not even aware of. The comments I heard afterwards about transparency were not to Avalon's advantage - no new members coming here from them.

Thanks

[ThePythonicCow]

Mods, I referred this thread to some personal friends to whom I already referred the forum so we can discuss, they told me this thread in non existent. Then I heard elsewhere it is for members only. Then I checked (could not believe it) and yes, if I don't log on, the thread title does not even appears on the today's post list (whichever page).
Good point Flash - thanks! I just moved this thread to the "General Forum", which is viewable by guests.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Mods: are we allowed to request this thread visable to all? Seems like it may benefit the public yeah?
You read my mind - it has been done!

The following like should be world viewable: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?20674-Is-Monogamy-Natural

[TimelessDimensions]

Good stuff Paul1972,

You are about 6-7 weeks behind me,

See: http://td64.blogspot.com/2011/04/origin-of-evil.html (http://td64.blogspot.com/2011/04/origin-of-evil.html)

Keep it up ;)

[red_rose]

I'm in an 8 year relationship. I love my partner, but it's not the kind of love that I would dream of as a child, it's a drastically diluted version.

I got to the thinking that the love I love is something that only exists in fantasy, but you guys are helping me otherwise.

I still don't know what to do about my partner. It would destroy him if I left him, I'm his world. But what would my reasons be, because I do love him but I'm not in love with our love.

Anyone else been in the same boat?

red_rose

Your feelings are similar to the way I felt with my first 3 husbands. It was especially difficult to leave my 2nd husband after 16 years and raising 2 children with him. I loved him very much although it was more like he was my brother or child in many ways. It hurt him terribly when I left but we have stayed friends and he still calls me quite often for advice even though he is also married again. I guess I really was more like his mother and it's got to be more difficult to lose a mother than a wife. It's extremely difficult to leave a relationship where everyone is usually happy and enjoying life, so I wouldn't dream of advising anyone to do so. One must follow their own guidance.

Finally I found my soul mate when I met my 4th husband. From the time I was a child I knew there was someone here on earth I was supposed to find and be with and was amazed that I found him! I have actually loved every lover and every husband, although there are many different kinds of love (some quite lustful !).

I am so thankful that my search finally ended because it was not exactly comfortable being in a happy and loving relationship with a mate yet know that he was not my "true love" or soul mate. There were times when I thought my feelings were all an illusion or wishful thinking, but when I met my soul mate I knew my lifelong feeling of missing part of myself was real, because that feeling disappeared and has not come back in 15 years. Monogamy is the only option in our relationship because we have no interest in anyone else, although neither of us was strictly monogamous in most of our previous relationships.

I have no complaints about the journey. It's all been good.

Nancy :)

I almost cried when I read this post, it resonated with me so much.

Thank you for writing this and thank you for writing from your heart.

It actually helps to know other people have felt similar.....and survived to tell the tale :)

Wow...I needed to hear from you sister.

In gratitude.

red_rose