29. Crazy Wisdom.

[Tony]

CUTTING THROUGH SPIRITUAL MATERIALISM.
Chogyam Trungpa.

To the conventional way of thinking, compassion simply means being kind and warm. This sort of compassion is described as 'grandmother's' love. You would expect the practitioner of this type of compassion to be extremely kind and gentle; he would not harm a flea.

If you need another mask, another blanket to warm yourself, he will provide it. But true compassion is ruthless, from the ego's point of view, because it does not consider ego's drive to maintain itself.

It is “crazy wisdom.” It is totally wise, but it is crazy as well, because it does not relate to ego's literal and simple-minded attempts to secure its own comfort.

The logical voice of ego advises us to be kind to other people, to be good boys and girls and lead innocent little lives. We work at our regular jobs and rent a cozy room or apartment for ourselves; we would like to continue in this way, but suddenly something happens which tears us out of our secure little nest.

Either we become extremely depressed or something outrageously painful occurs. We begin to wonder why heaven has been so unkind. “Why should God punish me? I have been a good person,
I have never hurt a soul.” But there is something more to life than that.

What are we trying to secure? Why are we so concerned to protect ourselves? The sudden energy of ruthless compassion severs us from our comfort and securities. If we were never to experience this kind of shock, we would not be able to grow. We have to be jarred out of our regular, repetitive and comfortable lifestyle.

The point of meditation is not merely to be an honest or good person in the conventional sense, trying only to maintain our security. We must begin to become compassionate and wise in the fundamental sense, open and relating to the world as it is.


(This is what woke me up)

Tony

[ViralSpiral]

Hi Pie ;)

I appreciate this message. Thank you. We all experience dark nights of the soul and whilst compassion may equate to tough love, the experiencer may not see the gift of this, until the dark has gone.
What compassion should also be is : integrity.....

[Anchor]

This is a very interesting subject.

I documented one of my own struggles with this phenomena back in 2008 on the predecessor forum which is archived here http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=6153

Thanks for this thread and getting me to look back on that ;)

[Tony]

This is a very interesting subject.

I documented one of my own struggles with this phenomena back in 2008 on the predecessor forum which is archived here http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=6153

Thanks for this thread and getting me to look back on that ;)


Dear Anchor,
Your message was sincere.
By the way......................you are perfect! Wisdom is your very nature.

Yes, we all have some luggage to let go of, and......oo I'm sitting in the conservatory and watching starlings take their first bath!!!
....and not to get too distracted!!

When spiritual smuges rears its head, that is just pride. The antidote is the 'wisdom of equality'. It's all part of the gradual process.
Ever time it is noted, it lessens. Pretending it's not there, just adds to the luggage.

I'm sure I get up people's noses, but I am not going to limp when I can run!

All the best
Tony

[HURRITT ENYETO]

I must admit i have struggled with this at times.
My Grandmother who was wise beyond words and whom i loved very much never hurt anyone, would go without to give to you, never smoked or drank a day in her life was one of the *truly* kindest people on the planet yet she got lung Cancer and died the most horrific death imaginable.
I never wish to see suffering like that ever again. She was Catholic, prayed, went to church believed in God so why would he treat her like that?

I don't believe in God, but i believe in a 'universal consciousness'.
I always regret that i was still asleep so to speak when my Nana was still with us, i didn't know at the time but she was immensely interested in the metaphysical, ufo's etc. just like i am now.

I guess what i'm trying to say is do you think that things like that happen in order that we can grow from it?
If so its is a painful lesson indeed.

Sorry if i have took the thread off topic, i am still struggling to understand why what happened happened.

Cheers
Hurritt

[greybeard]

Compassion is not warm and fuzzy--- its what ever works to bring about a positive outcome.
That may be standing back and doing absolutely nothing.
It may be tough love, it may be a hug.
Comes down to intention.
Eventually there is no intention, appropriate action/non-action happens/ arises in the moment.

Chris

[Anchor]

I must admit i have struggled with this at times.
My Grandmother who was wise beyond words and whom i loved very much never hurt anyone, would go without to give to you, never smoked or drank a day in her life was one of the *truly* kindest people on the planet yet she got lung Cancer and died the most horrific death imaginable.
I never wish to see suffering like that ever again. She was Catholic, prayed, went to church believed in God so why would he treat her like that?

I don't believe in God, but i believe in a 'universal consciousness'.
I always regret that i was still asleep so to speak when my Nana was still with us, i didn't know at the time but she was immensely interested in the metaphysical, ufo's etc. just like i am now.

I guess what i'm trying to say is do you think that things like that happen in order that we can grow from it?
If so its is a painful lesson indeed.

Sorry if i have took the thread off topic, i am still struggling to understand why what happened happened.

Cheers
Hurritt

I am not so sure this is so off-topic, even if it is I have to respond because I felt the emotion behind the words as you wrote that.

In my world this is called catalyst. The catalyst that nudges ever on the process of teach/learning learn/teaching.

The creation is essentially perfect. The imperfection or the sense of imperfection is grounded in the illusion we know in our waking moments as reality. We fail to grasp that we are part of that one infinite thought that is creation.

Pain, fear, self judgement, guilt, regret are all things which we manufacture for ourself in this illusion wherein we suffer for the singular purpose of distilling hard won experience and wisdom from experiences and knowledge. Your nan, just like us, are/were/(still are) co-habitee's of your illusion. She had her own vector of progress on the pathless land to truth, and so do you.

These paths cross, just like they have in this moment between us in this thread. We readers also learn vicariously though the pain you expressed. It opens a unique opportunity to share.

Oh man! You did not know! How could you? It was not your fault! At some point, probably quite soon, you will process this episode fully. You will experience a paradigm shift in this matter - and you will forgive yourself for the hurt you created for yourself and for the feelings of regret at the opportunity missed, wherein you would have shown the love and appreciation you would surely have felt in sharing - and evidently do feel in its loss.

John..

[HURRITT ENYETO]

I must admit i have struggled with this at times.
My Grandmother who was wise beyond words and whom i loved very much never hurt anyone, would go without to give to you, never smoked or drank a day in her life was one of the *truly* kindest people on the planet yet she got lung Cancer and died the most horrific death imaginable.
I never wish to see suffering like that ever again. She was Catholic, prayed, went to church believed in God so why would he treat her like that?

I don't believe in God, but i believe in a 'universal consciousness'.
I always regret that i was still asleep so to speak when my Nana was still with us, i didn't know at the time but she was immensely interested in the metaphysical, ufo's etc. just like i am now.

I guess what i'm trying to say is do you think that things like that happen in order that we can grow from it?
If so its is a painful lesson indeed.

Sorry if i have took the thread off topic, i am still struggling to understand why what happened happened.

Cheers
Hurritt

I am not so sure this is so off-topic, even if it is I have to respond because I felt the emotion behind the words as you wrote that.

In my world this is called catalyst. The catalyst that nudges ever on the process of teach/learning learn/teaching.

The creation is essentially perfect. The imperfection or the sense of imperfection is grounded in the illusion we know in our waking moments as reality. We fail to grasp that we are part of that one infinite thought that is creation.

Pain, fear, self judgement, guilt, regret are all things which we manufacture for ourself in this illusion wherein we suffer for the singular purpose of distilling hard won experience and wisdom from experiences and knowledge. Your nan, just like us, are/were/(still are) co-habitee's of your illusion. She had her own vector of progress on the pathless land to truth, and so do you.

These paths cross, just like they have in this moment between us in this thread. We readers also learn vicariously though the pain you expressed. It opens a unique opportunity to share.

Oh man! You did not know! How could you? It was not your fault! At some point, probably quite soon, you will process this episode fully. You will experience a paradigm shift in this matter - and you will forgive yourself for the hurt you created for yourself and for the feelings of regret at the opportunity missed, wherein you would have shown the love and appreciation you would surely have felt in sharing - and evidently do feel in its loss.

John..


Thanks so much John,
That means a lot,
Thank you.

[Tony]

I must admit i have struggled with this at times.
My Grandmother who was wise beyond words and whom i loved very much never hurt anyone, would go without to give to you, never smoked or drank a day in her life was one of the *truly* kindest people on the planet yet she got lung Cancer and died the most horrific death imaginable.
I never wish to see suffering like that ever again. She was Catholic, prayed, went to church believed in God so why would he treat her like that?

I don't believe in God, but i believe in a 'universal consciousness'.
I always regret that i was still asleep so to speak when my Nana was still with us, i didn't know at the time but she was immensely interested in the metaphysical, ufo's etc. just like i am now.

I guess what i'm trying to say is do you think that things like that happen in order that we can grow from it?
If so its is a painful lesson indeed.

Sorry if i have took the thread off topic, i am still struggling to understand why what happened happened.

Cheers
Hurritt


Dear Hurritt,
This is a trick topic. We live in two worlds, one Relative, the other Absolute.
The Relative is the phenomenal world of body and mind. The Absolute is pure
consciousness. The Relative world is temporary. The Absolute world is constant.

At the moment we are unaware of our Absolute nature, but we get glimpses of it.

So we reincarnate life time after life time until we realise our true nature, and have lost
all our baggage (Karma). Karma are all the imprints we hold in the mind as if things are real.

If we have had countless life times, then every sentient being has been your mother!
( Conversely everyone at some time, has run off with your watch!)

It's normal to have love and affection for those we love. But this also brings pain.
It's part of the Relative world. That love has to be expanded to just love, unconditional
love. For no reason.

How one spends one life, and we die, do not always seem to add up. A lot has to do with
bodily constitution, diet, attitude, and ...karma. It could seem that the universe is not fair.
It is fair, but not always acceptable to us. We are told that karma is carried from one
life time to the next, it's a debt that has to be repaid.

If we try and dodge it, it could make things worse. That's why we have no choice but
to accept what happens. But we still take care of our bodily constitution, diet, attitude
and......karma.

Whatever happens to us is due to our past actions and reactions. If one reacts in the same
old way, then the same things will keep happening. The moment you stop reacting....
…...no karma is produced!

We all have to move on, everything everyone comes and goes.

You will find family everywhere.

All the best

Tony

[shijo]

One of my bigest delusions was to believe i should have a comfortable life devoid of drama confrontation and suffering,since that is no longer the case i live a comfortable life... regards Shijo.

[Tony]

One of my bigest delusions was to believe i should have a comfortable life devoid of drama confrontation and suffering,since that is no longer the case i live a comfortable life... regards Shijo.

Very Zen, very true!

[Revere]

I find it so beautiful that we can come together with our different faiths or beliefs and share much of the common Truths they possess without "spiritual materialism". We may differ but so many of these Truths circle each other and vibrate with those individuals whom they speak too.


One of my bigest delusions was to believe i should have a comfortable life devoid of drama confrontation and suffering,since that is no longer the case i live a comfortable life... regards Shijo

Very Christian as well!

Jesus...

John 16:33 "I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world."
SO...
John: 14:27 Peace I leave with you; My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Do not let your heart be troubled, nor let it be fearful.

Peace,

-R-

[CorLian]

Excelent, wonderful and somehow hard for people to understand. Compasion is a sharp sword deftly thrust. I can not tell you how many times people have come to me with an issue "OMG Cor, blah blah DRAMA and more blah!" and have been upset when my answer was something akin to "Get your head outa yer arse." Most times I try to do it nicely, at times I am so frustrated with repitition that I can be rude. :tape:

One of the main reasons I am with my partner is when we were friends, she offered me some excelent advice that actualy started with "Your being an idiot..." She was nice about it, and patient with me to no end. She still is, frequently, as I am a bit thick headed at times.

It hurts, but to borrow an old slogan from the US Army. Pain is weakness leaving the body.

[Tony]

I'm wondering if this subject helps to define certain characteristics.
Not that it is good or bad, just different a type of person.

Are we all totally different, or do we fall into categories?
Do we fall into certain groups naturally?

Some people seem religious in character. Maybe have a love for form. Or dogma.
Some philosophical in nature. May have a love of words. Or dictionaries.
Some experiential. May have a love of spontaneity. Or sentimentality.
Some a mixture of the above. May have a love of everything. Or confused.

We have to be open to the possibilities of our oscillations.

I'm also wondering if this could be to do with why some people we connect
with and others do not.

May be have a good look inside and see how one leans, feel happy about it,
and allow others to be the way they are.

The characteristics could be widened.

Group A. Want enlightenment for themselves.
Group B. Want enlightenment for others, and have an antidote.
Group C. Want enlightenment for others and have a system.
Group D. There is no enlightenment to attain.

An example:
There is a poison bush. This represent the poisonous negative emotions. Pride, jealousy,
anger, desire, fear.

Group A. Will not go near it. Keep away from it.
Group B. Will put a fence around it, to protect others. Use an antidote. But it is still there.
Group C. Will see it as medicine. The poison can be transformed into medicine. Wisdom.
Group D. Will see that the poison bush never existed in the first place. Complete wisdom.

We have to accept where we are, and up grade if we see it's necessary.
If we work together we can all up grade!


( Me...I'm in the confused group!)


Tony

[shijo]

i think i will align to groupC Pie n eal,D is beyond me at the moment.Regards Shijo.

[Tony]

i think i will align to groupC Pie n eal,D is beyond me at the moment.Regards Shijo.

Ah! I see you have aligned yourself with the Vajrayana/ Tantric path!
Brilliant! That is seeing the negative emotions as Wisdoms, so no fear!
You do not fear your emotions.

Are we on the same page? If you see it differently, do say.

The moment (say) anger arise, is because something is clearly seen, which seems wrong. That very first instant is 'mirror-like wisdom' your essence is alerted.

Now at that moment one can just rest in that knowing. But, but, we usually miss that moment and get angry. The anger takes over, and you (essence) have lost
control.

So from this view point, emotions are wonderful! A.and B. don't work that way.

I'm using the Tibetan Buddhist system.

You can chose any system that satisfies, it helps to know ones temperament.
Mine seems to be cute but fiery!!
( my wife is questioning the cute!)


Tony