List of Companies to Invest in?? Illuminate our bank statements [Archive]

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WEAREONE

3rd June 2011, 04:12

Assuming the world as we know it does not collapse. It seems that the need for money will not go away. I see many different sites out there similar to Avalon asking for donations. I see myself wanting to travel,explore, donate to good causes, finance businesses that are morally sound and ecologically friendly etc, etc...
In short I would like to have money in order to do good things with. If we Avalon members use our collective knowledge of the corruption in the world and investigate and plan our investments with the knowledge that the world economy is corrupt we can use that knowledge to reap monetary gain and then use that money for the good.

One example I can think of is Monsanto (MON) with their crop and seed engineering it seems they would likely be very profitable if the world turns down their very dark road they are currently investing in.

Another company would be International Business Machines (IBM). With their genetic engineering, RFID chips, questionable history with the Nazi's.

Walt Disney Co (DIS) Many different forms of the occult tied in to Disney.

I believe their are many different companies that are tied into the ruling elite Illuminati or whatever you would call them. One very important type of company I have not mentioned is defense contractors. Perhaps those on Avalon with insight into which defense companies are the most occult could help to enlighten all of us. Im especially interested in those companies which may be involved in the "Real Space Program".

My purpose of this post is two fold.
1. To start a discussion on this subject so that we are all aware.
2. To invest my money in companies that will be highly profitable.
The part 2. May seem to some as immoral or unnecessary. Well then I would leave you with I fully plan to use the profits to fight evil, promote love, help those in need etc etc.

I also would like to offer the opportunity to discuss investing in gold and other precious metals. I believe Gold is a good investment either road the world goes. if their is economic collapse gold will save your life and be very valuable. If their is no economic collapse and India and China markets emerge their will be a growing demand for gold and other precious metals. Lastly I think silver has lagged greatly in the recent gold surges and is likely to give you better returns then gold. Also, if we really return to a bartering society those silver coins will be nearly as valuable as gold coins in bartering for food, water, shelter, security.

One more topic. I fully believe fresh drinking water as a resource will be one of the most valuable resources in the world. If their is anyone out there with insight into which companies that are buying up fresh water and planning for a water shortage it would be much appreciated.
-We Are One. The one is Love=We are Love. All these matters in the end will not matter. Love will have the last word. Until then I wish everyone the best.

dddanieljjjamesss

3rd June 2011, 04:17

I'm shocked.

daledo

3rd June 2011, 04:34

So, you want to invest in the companies that perpetrate all or most of the evil in the world? Take your money and invest in things that are for the betterment of the world. You will soon realize that money really means nothing. I would say invest in getting off the grid and helping others do the same. Invest in some land and start a community garden. Buy a surplus of camping equipment and survival gear. Invest in water purification equipment. Start a flea market where we can barter for goods and services so we can get away from using money in the first place. Get your money out of stock market and the banks.

Positive Vibe Merchant

3rd June 2011, 04:51

Im with you on this one daledo. use the cash to go off grid, and show others how they can do it as well.

PVM

WEAREONE

3rd June 2011, 04:59

I can sense the opposition to this discussion. and was leery to post in the first place I would simply say I hope it sparks a spirited debate full of thoughtful, intelligent and fearless ideas.

Positive Vibe Merchant

3rd June 2011, 05:10

I appreciate you asking for everyones thoughts about this, but my personal belief (as you can tell by my avatar) is that money is the root of all evil, and it has caused more problems to humanity than it has fixed.

Forget investing. Take your cash. Buy some land, get off grid, and teach the world that it can be done and show them how to do it.

s3nru

3rd June 2011, 05:14

if you're going to invest, invest in resources.

I mean that whether it's stocks, or if it's setting up a permaculture forest.

dddanieljjjamesss

3rd June 2011, 05:15

I'm just not sure that this idea is very logical.
To invest in Monsanto means that they further the destruction of the world you hope will not be destroyed.

baggywrinkle

3rd June 2011, 05:47

The only vote you have that has an impact is the dollar in your wallet.
It does no good to help make the rope that will hang you.

By the same token, in discussions of being non resistant one must take responsibility for one's actions. The example used was selling propane to supply the furnace at Dachau while
pretending that you do not know what it was being used for leaves your hands no less blood stained.

My own criteria for investing is that the endeavor must support puppies and children, but not by making them work in sweat shops

A really good place to invest is in your local community doing something called financial
permaculture. See SOLARI and Catherine Austin Fitts for more information about the
rational behind this

bearcow

3rd June 2011, 15:38

buy what you can at the local flea market, and family yard sales. keep the underground economy strong

unless you specifically take the money you make from investing in scumbag companies and then reinvest it in other things that undermine the foundations that those companies monopolies are built upon, it's a bad idea. ie, use the system to defeat the system. Making money for personal gain when you knowingly are aware that the company you're investing in is immoral is a form of blood money and one of the things that keeps the tptb on top of the pyramid.

Maia Gabrial

3rd June 2011, 16:51

I think we all would be surprised at how much we could do without money, if every community came together and took care of their members, providing food, clothing and shelter. We may HAVE TO do this anyway in order to survive what's to come.... if it comes....
I'll feel a little pity for the ultra wealthy....but not much. They'll need OUR services and expertise eventually. What will they do when their money isn't worth the paper it's printed on? Oh yeah, it's not worth much already....!
Maia

conk

3rd June 2011, 17:38

The sensible answer to me is farm land with good soil and a constant water source. That's my plan for me and my children. But, we still need money or THEY take the land from you if you don't pay taxes!!!

Maia Gabrial

3rd June 2011, 17:45

conk,
On top of taxes, Eminent Domain is something to worry about, too. This is what govt can use and doesn't need a reason to take your land away from you.
Maia

WEAREONE

4th June 2011, 19:23

Thanks for the reply's.

I found this website very useful thank you baggywrinkle -"A really good place to invest is in your local community doing something called financial
permaculture. See SOLARI and Catherine Austin Fitts for more information about the
rational behind this"

As for the ideas to get off the grid and not use money. I am planning on covering all the possible outcomes. I will try and plan to have a working farm/garden, with shelter and water. I will have gold and silver coins for barter. The last and most controversial plan is to invest some in stocks both good earth friendly companies and those affiliated with the powers that be. I consider myself a moral and good person, perhaps that is relative. I would not have any qualms in using the profits to counter/fight against the powers that be. Perhaps a more appropriate discussion on this subject and one I wish I would have started with is: Which companies out there are evil and should not be invested in? Many people do not realize their investments are tied to evil corporations. I have not found any in depth videos or books that talk to these matters. Perhaps other members have found such information?? What I am attempting to do is utilize the collective members intelligence in occult/hidden matters to plan the best way to survive and fight. Perhaps with the collective intelligence I can be directed to other companies that are going to be very profitable if the Powers that Be are overturned. Solar energy stocks comes to mind. Perhaps a medical/health insurance company that promotes prevention, has doctors that are holistic, has hospitals that feed their patients healthy nutritious food, that educate their clients on the need to eat healthy, exercise, meditate, etc etc.

Best of luck to all of you however this turns out. And thanks again for the suggestions and thoughts.

Anno

4th June 2011, 20:21

bearcow

4th June 2011, 20:53

The goal of being pragmatic and using the force of finance to do good is an honourable one and something I believe would really help.

The desire to use the corruption to fund it is not. That's just lazy and will serve both sides. Nothing good will come of it.

these statements seem to be at odds with each other.

a story of a businesswoman, Roxanne Quimby

We and our readers were surprised and some were dismayed when Burt's Bees was sold to Clorox for $913 Million in November; The New York Times reveals that all was not going so sweetly well before this, and that Burt got the short end of the stick. It seems that Burt was living in a turkey coop when he met Roxanne Quimby in 1984; they split in 1993 and she bought him out in 1999 with a house worth $ 130,000.

She then sold 80% of the company to AEA,(according to a commenter, a buyout firm formed in 1968 by the Rockefeller, Harriman, and Mellon families) in 2003 and got $ 141 million; when Burt complained she gave him $ 4 million. She got another $150 million when it was sold to Clorox; Burt got nothing. His face is on the packaging but he is back living in a turkey coop.

CEO John Replogle proves Burts Bees is still green by dining on avocado butter hair treatment. "If you can’t put it into your mouth, you shouldn’t put it on your skin."

The Times notes:

By 2000, Burt’s Bees was pulling in $23 million in revenue, according to the company. Ms. Quimby said she had always intended to sell the company and had received offers for quite some time before she put it up for auction in 2003. That year, AEA Investors, a private equity firm in New York, paid Ms. Quimby $141.6 million for an 80 percent stake in Burt’s Bees. If Mr. Shavitz had held onto the stake he traded to Ms. Quimby for $130,000, it would have been worth about $59 million.

At the time of that deal, Mr. Shavitz demanded more money and Ms. Quimby said she agreed to pay him $4 million. Burt’s Bees also pays Mr. Shavitz an undisclosed amount each year for using his name and image on its products. Through a Burt’s Bees spokeswoman, Mr. Shavitz declined to comment on any payments he had received or the reasons for his fallout with Ms. Quimby. When asked if he and Ms. Quimby were still friends, Mr. Shavitz said, “Sure.”

“What happened between us in our personal relationship in the past is history,” he said in a statement. “The magic of living life for me is, and always has been, the magic of living on the land, not in the magic of money.”

The Times continues with an update on the company today:

CEO John Replogle is maintaining "the founder's green philosophies. Employees’ bonuses are based in part on how well the company meets energy conservation goals, and there are prime parking spaces for staff members who drive hybrid cars or carpool. It buys offsets for 100 percent of its carbon emissions and is working toward a goal of sending no trash to landfills by 2020.

Mr. Replogle calls his current job a “mission” and says he is trying to reinvent business with an idea he calls “the Greater Good,” based on the founders’ ideals. The premise is that if companies are socially responsible, profit will follow. Burt’s Bees not only prioritizes the natural origin of its ingredients but also emphasizes animal rights, responsible trade, employee benefits and the environment." ::New York Times

So nothing really changed in November; Burt has been out of the picture for years. The original owner of burt's bees skin care products sold her line to the clorox company. Clorox wants to position themselves

i don't believe for a second that clorox will maintain the quailty of the product line. this was a hit piece by treehugger.com and they tried to make it look like she was only in it for the money, however.....

Roxanne Quimby Purchases High Priority 24,000 Acre Township East of Baxter Park

By Phyllis Austin, Maine Environmental News (www.meepi.org). 11/24/03
The acquisition of Township 5 Range 8 WELS -- all 24,083 acres -- from Irving Woodlands LLC closed Monday and made Quimby the second largest individual wildlands landowner in Maine, with about 40,000 acres. (Roxanne, Rufus, Burt. Photo: Burt's Bees)

Burt’s Bees Inc. co-founder Roxanne Quimby has purchased one of the highest priority East Branch townships adjacent to Baxter State Park for $12,041,500 The acquisition of Township 5 Range 8 WELS -- all 24,083 acres -- from Irving Woodlands LLC closed Monday and made Quimby the second largest individual wildlands landowner in Maine, with about 40,000 acres.

While negotiating with Irving, Quimby sold 80 percent of her solely owned company to AEA Investors in New York for more than $180 million in order to raise capital for the business and accelerate her North Woods purchases. Large tracts of commercial timberland are continuing to come on the market at a remarkable rate, with some 5.5 million acres trading hands in the last five years.

Quimby remains the chief operating officer and the largest minority owner of Burt's Bees, the popular environmentally friendly personal care products company based in Durham, N. C. Eventually, she will phase herself out of the $50 million a year (sales) business to run her land trust, called Elliotsville Plantation, in Maine. Her goal is to buy as much forestland as possible, help it become truly wild and donate the land for a national park. The environmental organization RESTORE: The North Woods is working to establish a 3.2 million-acre national park and preserve around "forever wild" Baxter State Park. Quimby has been a public advocate of RESTORE’s effort.

Given the controversy surrounding RESTORE's campaign, Quimby's land purchases have made her a lightning rod in that debate. When word leaked out that she might be the buyer of T5R8, park opponents and other local folk gathered at Shin Pond, near Baxter Park's northern entrance, to discuss land ownerships shifts in northern Maine. They feared that Quimby’s purchase could be the beginning of a national park. They anticipated new restrictions on commercial and recreational uses of T5R8 and changes for lessees of seasonal camp lots.

Confirmation that Quimby is indeed the new owner and will change the land uses of T5R8 likely will upset some people all over again. But Quimby asserted her own property rights. "Irving didn't give me this land," she said. "I didn't inherit it. I didn't win the lottery. I sweated and worked for years and earned the privilege of being the steward."

Quimby is not one to avoid facing her questioners and accepted an invitation to discuss her vision for the North Woods at the Industrial Forestry Forum on Dec. 4 in Brewer. "Perhaps no other person in Maine's forestry circles inspires a similar mixture of suspicion, frustration, intrigue and respect than Roxanne Quimby," the forum's announcement says. "Whether you agree with her strategy or not, Ms. Quimby is practicing a personal land ethic like no one else since former Maine governor Percival Baxter, who spent years during the 20s acquiring tracts as a prelude to a state park."

Before Quimby completed the deal with Irving, she had already purchased a total of 15,921 acres for just over $7.1 million in a three-year period. The only individual who owns more of the North Woods than Quimby is media billionaire John Malone, who holds 70,000 south of Jackman in western Maine.

In mulling over whether to go after the expensive T5R8, Quimby called Baxter Park "a strong persuader and compelling neighbor." Her purchase will provide a critical buffer to the park from potential development and allow the cut-over land to recover to a state of wildness comparable to its neighboring preserve.

The natural features that make the township so valuable from a protection standpoint are that it contains the eastern slopes of the impressive Traveler mountain range and both sides of the East Branch of the Penboscot River for 10 miles, starting at the outlet of Matagamon Lake. The river has several notable whitewater rapid sections -- Grand Pitch, Haskell Rock Pitch, the Hulling Machine, Stair Falls and Pond Pitch -- making it a first-rate canoe trip.
The natural features that make the township so valuable from a protection standpoint are that it contains the eastern slopes of the impressive Traveler mountain range and both sides of the East Branch of the Penboscot River for 10 miles.
(Photo: David Martin)

Quimby's acquisition of T5R8 took on great importance when conservationists lost the bid on the other three Irving townships that border on Baxter Park's east side. Logging contractor/developers William T. Gardner and Herb Haynes bought 47,000 acresin T2R8, T3R8 and T4R8, for a reported $30 million plus. Gardner snared the "crown jewel" of the East Branch – all of T3R8 -- that includes exquisite Katahdin Lake, the eastern slopes of the Turner mountain range and a significant roadless area. The average price was $800 an acre – four times what Mead/Westvaco got for 659,000 acres in Maine and New Hampshire recently.

Haynes paid $475 an acre for 12,500 acres he purchased last summer from Irving in T5R7 and T4R7 (adjacent to Quimby’s new land). Quimby’s $500 an acre cost for T5R8 reflected its proximity to Baxter Park and its long East Branch shoreline. "But that’s what real estate value is all about . . . unique location," she said.

Irving put T5R8 on the market last fall, along with the rest of its East Branch lands totalling more than 71,000 acres, as well as 43,000 acres in the Allagash Wilderness Waterway area. The state and the non-profit Trust for Public Land (TPL) submitted an acquisition proposal to Irving earlier in June for all of the townships. They were admittedly stunned at the price Irving was able to get from Gardner in particular because it (exploded the idea of market appraisal.)

"In light of this [purchase] announcement by Roxanne Quimby, the state continues a high level of interest in lands east of Baxter and Irving’s land around the Allagash," said Ralph Knoll, supervisor of planning and land acquisition for the Department of Conservation’s Bureau of Parks and Lands. The state is exploring the possibility of purchasing conservation easements from Gardiner and/or Haynes to protect some areas, such as the Wassataquoik watershed.

Buzz Caverly, director of Baxter Park, responded that Quimby's purchase and that of businessman Charles FitzGerald earlier this year "is most interesting. I'm pleased that conservationists like them have been successful in their negotiations. My congratulations to those who are deeply involved in the preservation of our natural resources for generations to come," he said. Caverly added that Percival Baxter "set an example during difficult times from 1931 to 1962. Conservationists today are truly challenged as well, and their commitments and successes are admirable."

FitzGerald bought the vintage Katahdin Lake Wilderness Camps in T3R8 from longtime owners Al and Sue Cooper for $395,000 a year ago (see report), and tried to negotiate with Irving for 15,000 acres around the lake and an important unroaded tract in the Wassataquoik watershed containing old growth stands. But he, like the state, was unsuccessful. Now, William T. Gardner is FitzGerald's leaseholder. FitzGerald rents 31 acres underneath the sporting camps, a longtime artists’ haven.
The viewshed of a significant stretch of the Appalachian Trail (A.T.) was the main attraction of conservationists on the "Katahdin Forest" tract, which includes Gulf Hagas scenic gorge.

Fraser/Nexfor owns the northern half of T4R8 between the Haynes and Quimby purchases. Quimby has talked with Fraser about buying their interest. Fraser is considering a sale, she said, "but it's on the backburner" because the company is busy with other higher priority matters right now.

Prior to buying T5R8, Quimby put in a bid for Hancock Timber Resources’ "Katahdin Forest," a 32,180-acre tract southeast of Greenville that encompasses all of Katahdin Iron Works Township (T6R9 NWP) and part of Bowdoin College Grant East (T7R10 NWP). She, as well as the Appalachian Mountain Club (AMC), was outbid by Carrier Timberlands in a blind auction held by LandVest. Carrier’s winning bid was $10.56 million, or $330 an acre. The Carrier brothers, a Canadian family with an office in Jackman, also paid Hancock $2.5 million in 2000 for 4,407 acres in Blanchard Township west of Monson.

The viewshed of a significant stretch of the Appalachian Trail (A.T.) was the main attraction of conservationists on the "Katahdin Forest" tract, which includes Gulf Hagas scenic gorge, Whitecap Mt., Screw Auger Falls and remote ponds. Quimby bid on only one of 14 large parcels Hancock was offering in Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire and New York – a total of 212,000 acres worth an estimated $100 million. The Carrier family is reportedly interested in discussing a conservation easement deal to help pay for the "Katahdin Forest" tract.

When negotiating with Irving, Quimby said she was treated as a business professional. "I don’t think politics extended into the situation. Both Herb Haynes and Roxanne Quimby are their customers," she said. Quimby complimented Irving’s operations manager Chuck Gadzik for being "cordial, polite and accommodating" with meeting arrangements.

Quimby’s intent for her latest property will be "wildlife sanctuary" -- a designation that will mirror the management of the adjoining Baxter township, T5R9. "I'm interested in creating wilderness to allow natural processes to evolve" and where human impacts are as minimal as possible, she said. In keeping with her policy for her other conservation lands, there will be no timber harvesting and no hunting in T5R8. Motorized access will be limited, Quimby said.
Snowmobile use will have to be re-examined in light of Quimby's goals for the land.

At the present, there are two significant gravel roads to leased camps and one major logging road. "The whole traffic management issue needs to be looked at," Quimby said. "I’d like to keep roads to a minimum." Irving had finished logging in T5R8 when a purchase and sales agreement was signed with Quimby last summer. The contract caused the company to close the main timber haul road, and it has remained shut.

"Irving has been letting me know that their colleagues are upset that I may be closing logging roads [permanently]," said Quimby. "These folks are quite alarmed I would shut out their most expeditious way to market." (Specifically, Fraser/Nexfor is concerned, she said, and maybe William T. Gardner.)

Traditionally, industrial landowners have traded road access, but Quimby said her purchase "changes the paradigm. I don't want what they have to trade . . . because I am not in the logging business and don't need roads for access."

However, Quimby is a realist and is interested in working out a compromise on roads. "It would not help, from an environmental standpoint, to send logging trucks 60 miles when they could travel eight [through T5R8] to get to where they need to go," she said.

Quimby called on the neighboring landowners to put up land in exchange for road passage. She suggested that she could trade T5R8 land on the east side of the East Branch for other lands -- say in the remote Wassataquoik valley. It could resolve logging hauling, recreational and other needs, she said. "Everyone can win, but everybody has to pay."

A major snowmobile trail (ITS 85) goes past the Bowlin sporting camps on the west side of the East Branch in T5R8, and sledders like to stop at the facility for a meal or overnight accommodation. Snowmobile use will have to be re-examined in light of her goals for the land, Quimby said.

Besides the Bowlin camps, Quimby has nine other lessees on both sides of the river.

All lessees currently access their camps by vehicle. Quimby is raising their lease rents to reflect fair market values, she said, a change she instituted when she purchased land in Elliottsville Plantation with seven lessees. The current rent "doesn't come close to covering the taxes and expenses," she said.

The leases likely will be renewed annually, but things on that score were uncertain, Quimby said. "I think in their heart-of-hearts, they know it's not a secure thing." While lessees have a contract, they will not be allowed to transfer the camp lot by sale, gift or other means. Lessees will be prohibited from cutting trees for firewood, from hunting and from dumping garbage on the property. They also will have to name Quimby on their camp insurance policy in order to protect her from liability. Lessees will not be allowed to erect new buildings on their leased lot nor will they be able to remove their buildings upon abandonment.

The commercial Bowlin camps, dating back to 1895, "are in a special category," Quimby said, indicating that she might treat them differently from the individual lessees. "I don’t want to be disruptive of anyone’s business," she said. Quimby plans to sit down with the camp owners and "come up with a solution that works for everybody."
Proposed Maine Woods National Park, which encompasses Baxter State Park.
(RESTORE: The North Woods)

As she acquires large tracts of land, Quimby said she is sensitive to the question, "Is it right for one person to call all the shots? I can understand that people don't want me to shut down their recreation and call [the land] all mine. That's not my way of stewardship," she said, reiterating her desire to save the land for a national park that means all Americans have a say in its uses.

"It's the most democratic and patriotic" kind of ownership -- a one person, one vote situation, Quimby said. She praised the National Park Service's land management over the last 100 years, especially for setting aside areas for "quiet enjoyment." Again, she came back to the art of negotiation and compromise to work through conflicting use issues.

Back to Burt's Bees, Quimby is excited about her new business partners and the arrangement she has made with them. "I feel the company was bursting at the seems -- like an adult child living in an apartment." It needed an infusion of capital to take advantage of market growth demands, she said.

Quimby said that an investment banker worked for over a year looking for a complimentary buyer for her company. There were 40 potential buyers, and that number was narrowed down to 12 and then to six. AES, a Wall Street buyout firm with five principals. "We get along very well," she said. "I have a lot of respect for them and trust them. They are very understanding and sensitive [to Burt's Bees' clientele]."

"For all intents and purposes, not much change changed [since the sale]," according to Quimby. "I am still running the business. I think that will evolve over time. The company now has quite a bit of debt" and a different pressure to perform that will mean "an extra layer of scrutiny" of operations, she said.

Quimby's contract called for her to stay on as chief executive officer for 12 months and also continue as creative director, overseeing product development and packaging. After a year, she will remain creative director until there is another change of ownership or the company goes public. When she transitions into a parttime role, she will be able to spend more time in Maine buying and managing land – and possibly looking at a political career. Quimby appears to be interested in the job once held by Percival Baxter – governor of Maine.

Meanwhile, Quimby will be using the sale proceeds to establish a Maine office for her foundation and hire a staff to run it. When she first began purchasing land, her primary interest was to "get it off the market . . . and I would consider it somewhat safe. I now have about [40,000] acres, and the question is what to do with it," she said. Already an environmental assessment of her lands has revealed two patches of rare orchids in the Bluffer Pond tract in T8R11 WELS west of The Nature Conservancy's Big Reed Preserve. Legendary bush pilot Jack McPhee, who died in a plane crash last April, discovered the orchids years ago and called Quimby's attention to them. She alerted the state’s Natural Areas Program to the orchids’ existence.
An environmental assessment of her lands has revealed two patches of rare orchids in the Bluffer Pond tract in T8R11 WELS west of The Nature Conservancy's Big Reed Preserve.

A stewardship management plan is being developed now for the Quimby lands. "Immediate restoration is needed on many parts," she said. "They just need to be left alone and some need repairs. I think it will involve challenges along the way," she said, adding that the solutions should provide "lively" debate.

In terms of purchasing other tracts, she said her interest is in lands contiguous to other conservation lands of the state and private organizations. The more land she acquires, the more Quimby said she identifies with "what drove" Percival Baxter to work so hard to make his dream a reality in his own lifetime. "As I get into the second half of my life, I ask myself ‘what have I left behind and what is my legacy’."

"It seems the people of Maine have a reverence for Baxter for what he accomplished," she said. "He did something wonderful, and it lives on forever. I want to do something worth doing," Quimby said. "If I can be an inspiration for others, I’d love to do that."

Go to archive of Phyllis Austin Reports for Maine Environmental News (www.meepi.org).

her decisions will yield a mixture of good and evil, i don't have a problem with that. She chose to do what mattered to her the most. If she waited to sell her company to the perfect buyer, it would have been likely that she never would have sold.

Anno

4th June 2011, 21:01

these statements seem to be at odds with each other. [...]

They would be if there is no balance. And wouldn't be if there was. The intention of the people involved would be the deciding factor. Good old Free Will. That is why you would need the synergy between pragamtists and idealists.

Idealists alone do very badly in the commercial world.
Pragmatists alone do exceptionally well but end up causing harm.

A balance of the two would be preferable but not at all easy to achieve.

Siberia9

4th June 2011, 21:02

How do I win in Vegas without making any money for the corrupt casinos... It does not work that way sorry, the house always wins. The elites make the real money not you, thru manipulation and inside trades etc etc. They are buying physical silver too that is something we can duplicate on our own. They are not planning on being in the US for the coming Dollar collapse, this we can duplicate as well. The ones I have spoke with are south of the Equator for reasons I wont bother to get into. Its going to be VERY difficult to make money as things decline and the US is reduced to third world status. All land in the US may be used to pay off the debt of the govt so dont think that because your house is paid for you are safe, Hillary has already signed the UN agreements to use all lands public and private in a default situation. You may be able to search the Alex Jones web site for that if you dont believe me, he reported on it at the time. If your going to stay in the US then you must set up a survival hide out in the woods, and off the grid, at least two hours away from the large city is good, as they will close the roads and the city's down if it gets really bad, and that is the plan. You MUST have a well no one knows about on this property, if you think they are screwing with your water now wait till it hits the fan and see what they do. If you could get the elites to tell you about the next Bin Laden disaster trades you could make a ton of money but I wouldn't bet on being able to pull it off, although I have planted that seed in my own interaction with some of these people and it only earned me a warning to buy silver and leave the northern hemisphere of the planet ASAP. The truth is I have been working on this situation since I was a child when I learned of the planned collapse that is to come, and every time I tried to dismiss the whole thing it was only validated at multiple levels. So if you want my opinion stay away from the stock market, food will be the most valuable thing around for awhile, then you can use your silver to buy the new currency or at least buy the Dollar at its new lower value. Think about fifty Dollar hamburgers, if they go up so will gold and silver equally or more. I have all but given up on talking about all this, they used to laugh, then they came and asked how I knew, now they are angry as if its my fault, I dont know what the final stage is and frankly I'm starting to not care, they have free will to do nothing if they like, Ive done my part for now.

baggywrinkle

4th June 2011, 21:51

We cannot all move to Peru...

This is why I placed emphasis on investing in your local community. If your neighbor the farmer needs a well and he borrows the money from CHASE at 5%, and you have a savings account
with Chase at 1%, then Chase loans your money to the farmer for a spread of 4%. Why send your money to New York when you can loan to the farmer at 2.5%? You both gain from the
transaction and the money stays in your local economy. This is also the basis and advantage of community currency.

My family and I have bet the farm on a faith based model that works. If you know your banker, your grocer, and your farmer they are accountable. I can meet Stanley face to face and tell
him something was wrong with his milk. Try that at Citibank.

The Amish model is a variation of the tribal economy. Their leaders are picked by drawing lots. Fred, our Bishop is a farmer with a tenth grade education. His hands are calloused and his
brow is wrinkled and weather worn. I can sit with him and look him in the eye and know that the other bishops are plain folk just like him. Try that with Citibank

The Bishops head districts, and districts make up churches. Groups of churches comprise conferences. At the conference level you have the ability to move mountains. If you doubt this
look at what the Mennonite Relief Service is doing in Joplin today. http://www.usmb.org/Home/p/130974/Key/Tags/ContentID/1126366/ShowTags/mennonite-disaster-service

It all starts with a tribal model. Tiny churches of a 1-2 dozen families brought together by a common vision. These are the mustard seeds that will change the world.

Have faith that what you see in the news is the death spasms of the old financial system. The new system that will replace it is not on your radar screen yet. The new system
will be based on self responsibility and brother helping brother as in an Amish barn raising. You won't find the answer in the DOW, it is right out your front door and down the road
a bit. Trust me on that. Have faith, then go forth and make it so. Do this and no swat team can deny you. They can't kill us all - it won't be allowed...

http://amishamerica.com/images/2007-small/12/03/nebraska_amish_barn_raising.jpg

Siberia9

5th June 2011, 02:43

I am not religious but the Amish have been feeding me most of my life, I do respect and admire them, they are good people. Two thumbs up for the Amish!

baggywrinkle

6th June 2011, 16:11

I am not religious but the Amish have been feeding me most of my life, I do respect and admire them, they are good people. Two thumbs up for the Amish!

It is not about the Amish per se. Rather, it is about the Amish economic model which is successful and proven by time to work.

It is not my purpose to hijack this thread which was about investing. I am here to tell you in the strongest way I know how that your best investment for the well being of your family will be
very close to home in the next two years. Precious metals work, but this is a store of existing value. Planting a seed which will grow into something greater should involve things close to
home. Like your education, or your tools, or your children, your neighbors, your church, your community. If your neighbor's children are fed he will not need to steal from you - got it?

My church is not Amish, but in many ways they follow the Amish model. It has about two dozen families which have many members. The meeting hall will comfortably seat about 140 people.
This is by design, because they do not get big - they split. Small encourages brotherhood and accountability. Large fosters nameless unaccountability. This is a paradigm shift for most of you.

The new economic model will be based on communalism (not communism). The amish model is a hybrid of what you are used to in many western countries as opposed to the hutterite model
which is true communalism. A group of people who are faith based have an advantage over another group who is not because of their like minded focal point which is moving toward something rather than running away from something.

Another way to look at it is to examine the military model. The basic unit is the platoon, which is a group of about 25 men. This size fosters intimacy and accountability.

The rugged individualist is doomed. A centralized society is made up of lonely individuals each scraping for themselves without accountability. Fill in the blank. Your survival depends on your neighbor. By investing in your neighbor you invest in yourself.

TPTB are betting on a statist global society controlled by one man. I have faith that they will fail ultimately. It will collapse and soon. In the aftermath you can rally and band together
like the people of Joplin or you can degenerate into Somalia. It is up to you.

An example of investing in your community is transforming a golf course into a community garden. Edible landscape. Banding together against the statists and their agenda 21 is another.
Rally behind the family being fined by the USDA for selling rabbits. Tomorrow it will be you. Get out of debt and withdraw your support of the statist institutions. If you bank with BOA
I have no sympathy for you as you dig your own grave. Learn the meaning and measure of the popsicle index.

The end of the world as we knew it is on us. Will you be prepared or are you roadkill and just don't know it yet?

Watch for the tribal government in life on the mesa. It ultimately is based on the golden rule
which is the only law we ever needed

http://www.megavideo.com/?v=LL898WKU

Lochinvar

7th June 2011, 00:34

Why not invest in silver (and precious metals in general)? Not only can this provide security against inflation and a collapse of the dollar but it can help destroy some of the banks that are manipulating the metals markets (and the wider economy).

There is only about 500 to 1000 million ounces of physical silver above ground for people to invest in (that's a total market of about 16 billion dollars). There is 50 to 100 times that amount in paper silver (so for every 50 ounces of paper there is only one ounce of the physical metal that each of the 50 paper owners think is theirs).

The banks that try to manipulate the price downwards (by short selling paper silver) are greatly exposed to the rising price. So exposed in fact that they can be put out of business. The main ones are JP Morgan and HSBC.

Useful information here:

http://silverliberationarmy.com/

Steven

7th June 2011, 01:25

...Which companies out there are evil and should not be invested in?

If all the people with money, foundation, government, etc... would ask themselves the same question, many problems would not be THAT big.

"Proctor and Gamble" (creator of fluoridation) is one you shouldn't invest in.

But to be honest with you, most of the international corporation are not good to invest in, they are all part of the problem. If you want to keep it simple, "small is beautiful".

Namaste, Steven