Non-compliance

[DoubleHelix]

I thought I'd create a thread about some thoughts and ideas I've been pondering over recently - this largely ties into the 'starve the beast thread' http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?21809-Starve-the-beast...

From what I've gathered the system we're all apart of has been in place for many centuries and has evolved accordingly. The system I speak of is a hierarchy in which the power belongs to a minority who overrule the majority. This minority group consists of families where the location they reside and even there names are completely unknown, Such families have vast amounts of wealth and resources at there disposal. They remain hidden and behind the scenes they control the likes of the Rothschilds, Warburgs and Rockerfellers, who are the public front-men to this complex power structure. There's evidence to suggest that it goes a lot higher to the point of off-world influence but I wont touch on that.

This system only works so efficiently because the masses lower down the power chain agree to comply, this is largely due to the fact that they don't identify the inequality. It may also be due to the reason that humans have never known it any other way. The key to this sytem is that it's designed to keep us in a state of fear, when one's encompassed with fear they're ability to make rationale decisions is severely limited. The Shadow Elites control this unique system where the masses are the backbone that reinforces the status quo and longevity. The idea many even amongst the alternative community haven't grasped is that this system contains a massive flaw, this flaw is the simple act of Non-compliance.

Once an individual does not comply and removes oneself from the soul-clenching grip of this corrupt system, a strange and unique thing starts to happen, you ever so slightly disempower the ruling elite. For this to have any dramatic effects, the removal would need to reach critical mass amongst the larger populace. without a shadow of doubt once or if this concept were to start rolling it would invoke a domino effect that would ripple out far and wide. Such a process could not happen overnight and would take time. What I'm sharing out loud is just the notion of the initial act, For the idea/meme to have any success, communities outside the current ones would need to flourish and people would be required to lead by example.

As we move from the Piscean age to the age of Aquarius, I think it's safe to say we're currently going through a stage of transition. I'll close by saying -

"An Emporer cannot rule if he hasn't an Empire to address to"

DH.

*Interested to hear what others thoughts are!*

[sshenry]

It would (will) take a paradigm shift of unprecedented proportions to break the fear/dominance cycle that humanity is entrenched in. A complete and total shift in understanding and in valuation (valuing one's freedom and the freedom of others over the illusion of security and safety provided by the controllers.

Without that paradigm shift; without the ability to move past the fear of the unkown, you will continue to have a large percentage of the population who would wilingly trade their freedom for the illusion of safety, and as long as there arae those willing to do that, there are those - like these shadow elite - who will take advantage of their desperation.

[letmedanz]

The elite are masters of deception.
And humanity is a trusting race. Innocent until proven guilty
However open minded & aware one might be, the powers have devised a trap for every mind.
it is going to take something divine for the minds of the people to understand the deception & win back their right to freedom and life.

can't believe i would be alive to see this happen if it happens!

[Belle]

The elite are masters of deception.
And humanity is a trusting race. Innocent until proven guilty
However open minded & aware one might be, the powers have devised a trap for every mind.
it is going to take something divine for the minds of the people to understand the deception & win back their right to freedom and life.

can't believe i would be alive to see this happen if it happens!

I agree up to the point you say "it is going to take something divine for the minds of the people to understand the deception...."

imo people are complacent. They don't want to dig or look any further than their noses to find the truth of matters.

For the past four days I've been going deeper and deeper into the rabbit-hole of compliance/non-compliance. Once I begin to understand what must be done on the one hand, down I go again into another deception closely related to the first. The answers we seek are provided, but deeply hidden. You must be willing to put in the time, lots of time, researching.

I don't mean to be cryptic. I'm still putting together the pieces of the puzzle I do have and searching for more. One thing I will say is that you must understand 'contracts'. We comply by not understanding that everything we do is a contract.

[sshenry]

The thing is - the whole compliance/non-compliance issue is just one more layer to the web of illusion that wraps humanity up so tight. So many people break free of one layer (compliance) and get 'caught up' in all the reasons that they WERE complying instead of focusing on stepping BEYOND the web altogether. It's good to be aware of course - of what is going on, but getting too wrapped up in the details can prove to be its own web that keeps us from pursuing true freedom of mind :)

[PHARAOH]

The answer is simple. "NON-COMPLIANCE"

Do not register children at birth. This is the most important as here is where it begins.
Do not vaccinate.
Do not pay taxes.
Do not buy insurance.
Do not send children to school.
Do not get any drivers license or any other license of that matter.
Do not co-operate with them. Listen to the words we use and real-ize they have meanings.
Once you CO-operate. co (your a party too) operate (thier operation) Your screwed.

We do not need to let 5% control the other 90% when 90% control the evenflow of the entire system itself.
Without YOUR co-operation they can't control us!

However we need the co-operation of the 90% to take back your birth rights as hiers to this planet. There is no reason why we are not given trillion dollar accounts at birth as we inherit the earth. Therfore you are part shareholder of all that this planet gives to you in abundance as it is for, of and by us! For who would YOU not serve if it is not to serve another YOU. We are all in service to one another by birth right as well. You are your brothers keeper and don't even real-ize it. Everything in this omniverse exists for, of and by you! If not for you, then who? Do you not wait and my table at a resturant? Do you not go find my shoe size at footlocker? Do you not treat me at the emergency room? Do you not smile at me when I come into your store? Just think for a moment. Think of what you do for a "living"? Does it not serve me? Are you not in service to me? Am I not in service to you in what I do every day? I want you to have the best everything we can produce in this moment an time for you. Do you not want the same for me? Why should I say you have to pay to become a doctor? You have to pay to become a glorified desk clerk? You want to become a doctor to serve we. You want to be a mechanic to serve we. You want to be a glorified desk clerk to serve we. School should always be free so long as we live, as you are "ALL-WAYS" in "SERV-US" to, we the people!!! We do not need to pay for anything! EVER!!! Everything we do in service for, of and by us! Therfore we own it, we run it and you just come and get it so we can make more and keep ourselves busy in service to ourselves. Bottom line; this is the kind of world (EYE- IN-VISION) leaving my children.

The next time anyone tells you that somethings impossible. Think "I'M - POSSIBLE!!!" :hug:

[58andfixed]

Please consider Steve York - "A Force More Powerful "

http://movies.nytimes.com/movie/review?res=9B02EFD9163CF93AA25752C1A96F958260


ANITA GATES
November 19, 1999

When he staged peaceful protests there, Jan Smuts, then the country's interior minister, told him: ''You reduce me to helplessness. How can we lay hands on you without looking like villains?''

That was the point, of course, and the method continues to work miracles.

****

http://www.aforcemorepowerful.org/

****

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Force_More_Powerful


.. a 1999 feature-length documentary film and a 2000 PBS series written and directed by Steve York about non-violent resistance movements around the world.

****

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0221186/

****

Chasing short-cuts may not prove to stand the test of time.

Understanding what 'The Problem' this Planet has, requires a studied effort.

Right now I don't see anything resembling consensus on 'The Problem,' so I am highly confident the bulk of the Planet's population would be too confused to decide & choose what a solution would look like.

- 58

[DoubleHelix]

We comply by not understanding that everything we do is a contract.

Are you referring to contracts made with our higher-selves before entering into our current bodies ? If yes then that's almost a defeatist attitude, like "Well we're in this mess, but I'm pretty sure I made a contract, so I'll carry on with the status quo for the sake of experience." - I could of misinterpreted you, let me know!

PHARAOH - I like your train of thought, start early and avoid/bypass everything that connects you to the system. I think this would be a good time to bring up Maritime Admiralty Law would anybody with a background in law like to contribute in explaining how this could be applied effectively, and also if it would be an avenue worth pursuing? *Cough* LS *Cough* :)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZqb0TW15EE

[Lochinvar]

The answer is simple. "NON-COMPLIANCE"

Do not register children at birth. This is the most important as here is where it begins.
Do not vaccinate.
Do not pay taxes.
Do not buy insurance.
Do not send children to school.
Do not get any drivers license or any other license of that matter.


] :hug:
Good to see some practical solutions put forward. I would include;

Do not register to vote
Do not serve in the military

DO buy physical silver
DO buy storable food and seeds for planting

[Steven]

...it is going to take something divine for the minds of the people to understand the deception & win back their right to freedom and life...

In my view, its exactly what's happening now. We are under divine intervention :) Well, we are every nanoseconds of our Life, but this moment is certainly special and unique.

Namaste, Steven

[Belle]

We comply by not understanding that everything we do is a contract.

Are you referring to contracts made with our higher-selves before entering into our current bodies ? If yes then that's almost a defeatist attitude, like "Well we're in this mess, but I'm pretty sure I made a contract, so I'll carry on with the status quo for the sake of experience." - I could of misinterpreted you, let me know!

No, not referring to contracts made with our higher selves.

Do you realize that by endorsing a check as we are told to do we are creating debt and that is what requires us to pay the IRS... for use of Federal Reserve Notes?

I started here http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/12/411.html


TITLE 12 > CHAPTER 3 > SUBCHAPTER XII > § 411
Prev | Next § 411. Issuance to reserve banks; nature of obligation; redemption
How Current is This? Federal reserve notes, to be issued at the discretion of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System for the purpose of making advances to Federal reserve banks through the Federal reserve agents as hereinafter set forth and for no other purpose, are authorized. The said notes shall be obligations of the United States and shall be receivable by all national and member banks and Federal reserve banks and for all taxes, customs, and other public dues. They shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States, in the city of Washington, District of Columbia, or at any Federal Reserve bank.

Check out that last line in the code.
Both United States Notes and Federal Reserve Notes are parts of our national currency and both are legal tender. They circulate as money in the same way. However, the issuing authority for them comes from different statutes. United States Notes were redeemable in gold until 1933, when the United States abandoned the gold standard. Since then, both currencies have served essentially the same purpose, and have had the same value. Because United States Notes serve no function that is not already adequately served by Federal Reserve Notes, their issuance was discontinued, and none have been placed in to circulation since January 21, 1971."

Federal Reserve notes are, UPON DEMAND, lawful money. The banks now do all of the exchanging and crediting of accounts being redeemed in lawful money in house.

They will not give you US Bank notes, they cannot, it is against the law for them to deal in them.

Nor will they accept deposits of Gold coins for the same reason.

IT IS YOUR DEMAND THAT MAKES THE TRANSITION from Federal Reserve Credit/debt to LAWFUL MONEY because you act as one of the PEOPLE when you do it, not as a US Corporate US Citizen.

The Government knows that FRNs are not lawful money (according to the Constitution) but in effect, we make it lawful by using it (acceptance makes contract and law) that is why they have ruled over and over they are "legal tender" and have never changed the original Title 12 to say they cannot or will not be redeemed for "lawful money".

They have to provide you and I a way to obey and uphold the law (the Constitution) by redeeming lawful money upon demand.

The physical changing of one form of money to another is, under title 12, to be done at the Treasury or at any Federal reserve bank, so let them take care of it.

It is the demand and record of it that binds the courts, the banks, the Federal Reserve and the IRS to the law.

You sign all of your deposit slips and checks like this:

"Deposit for credit on account or exchange for non-negotiable Federal Reserve Notes of face value."

By: Your signature DBA ALL CAPS NAME

Most people just get a stamp made (without the signature, of course and stamp the checks and deposit slips. The bank calls them "restricted endorsements".

The banks will not like this, because they cannot fractional-ise the deposit amount. But that is all in house and has nothing to do with your demand.

As for direct deposit, change your signature card as directed above, or send a notarized letter to your bank that all withdrawals or deposits on account XXXXXX-XXXXXX are for credit on account or exchanged for lawful money in the form of Non-negotiable Federal Reserve Notes of face value.

Send it Registered mail to your bank.

Restricted endorsement separates the Principal (living man or woman, one of the people, Sovereign, created by God)

From the PERSON. (Corporation, subject, peon, created by legal fictions).

By: Xxxxx Xxxxx DBA ALL CAPS NAME.

"Doing business as" separates the living man or woman with un-ALIEN-able rights from the corporation with aliened rights.

In effect, when signing "Deposit for credit on account or exchange for Non-Negotiable Federal Reserve Notes of face value"

You are signing a non-endorsement to use federal reserve credit/debit.

An endorsement, or signature on the back of any deposit would "indicate" yourself to become a party to the Contract between the US and the Federal Reserve and their elastic currency (changing value) Notes.

A non-endorsement clearly states you will NOT endorse said notes, therefore, the Non-negotiable FRNs you get are, for all legal purposes, non-elastic US Bank notes.

It should be noted here, the $300,000,000 US bank notes are still in Banks and/or the Treasury. These US Notes where pre-paid every year by the US Treasury in Gold or Silver. They have Red seals and serial numbers. If the notes are worn out, the Treasury has to pay for a new one in gold or silver coin and at face value of the coin.

It is my belief, since going off the gold standard (Nixon in 1971) the notes were no longer circulated because, they were actually too expensive to replace.

Therefore, the FRNs issued had to be "empowered" to "serve the same purpose as US Bank notes". Thus protecting the US Bank notes at the same time, Since the price of Gold is so high, and the law requires $300,000,000 in US Bank notes each year, the Treasury could not afford to give that much gold to the Federal Reserve, once it had to pay current market value for Gold. (The par value for gold prior to 1971 was still about $40 and ounce.)

When I write "Redeemed lawful money per 12-USC-411" on the back of a FRN and a Federal Reserve Bank inspects that note, the Serial number of that FRN is cancelled and a US Bank note (from the $300,000,000) serial number is accounted for to cancel, dollar for dollar, that amount of National Debt.

I am non-endorsing the FRN as a debt note with my demand for lawful money on the back of the note and/or my non-endorsement on the deposit.

The FRN serial number cannot be used again, since it has been PAID.

In cases where a normal, unredeemed, worn out FRN comes to a bank, that NOTE is destroyed, but the serial number can and is reissued to a newly printed FRN (with the addition of a * to the number, if I remember right). The debt it is evidence of continues to accrue new debt at face value and interest.

By the way, this is why I do not write anything on the FACE of the FRN, the redemption of the FRN is on the back, since it is against the rules to "DEFACE" a FRN.

Do you understand what I mean about the rabbit hole? About contract? About abandoning complacency and learning about such things? And this is only the tip of the iceberg.

[ceetee9]

The answer is simple. "NON-COMPLIANCE"
I beg to differ. If the answer was that simple, we'd all be doing it. It's like saying the solution to the drug problem is "Just Say No" or the way to end war is to just "Stop the Killing." Perhaps if EVERYONE agreed to act in concert on those statements, we could solve those problems, but the reality is that we can't get a few hundred people on Avalon to agree 100% on any given subject. Consequently, the likelihood of getting 7 billion people to all agree with a simplistic solution is virtually non-existent.

Why? I bet if you asked a hundred psychologists or psychiatrists the question, you'd get a hundred different answers/opinions. I'd also bet that if we examined the answers given we'd find a common thread and that that common thread would be fear and conditioning. The majority of the human species fears change (the unknown). I don't know whether it is innate or a byproduct of our conditioning (or a combination of both). Does that mean we should give up and accept our fate? Absolutely not! But I think it does mean we must address our fear and conditioning issues first. Then we might have a chance at changing the world for the better.

[Belle]

In reading over my post above, it sounds much more confusing than it really is...there's just too many implications from following that one little 'loophole' I found in the code regarding the reserve banks.

Simply speaking, deeply hidden in the codes of law there are 'loopholes'. By taking the time to research the loopholes, you will find a way out of their control into your own sovereignity.

ie you don't have to stop paying your taxes to make a change...they'll definitely come after you for that. Simply speaking...Taxes are owed because you used their FRN's. Turn it into lawful money, keep records of everything in and out of your bank account that you have set up turning deposits into lawful money and purchasing in lawful money for at least a year, and the following year you will owe no taxes. By writing "Redeemed lawful money per 12-USC-411" on the back of a FRN you are actually reducing the national debt. Using lawful money also removes the lien the Federal Reserve has on you and your possessions.

You just have to do your homework. They think we are too dumb and lazy to do this and therefore deserve what we get.

[PHARAOH]

The answer is simple. "NON-COMPLIANCE"
I beg to differ. If the answer was that simple, we'd all be doing it. It's like saying the solution to the drug problem is "Just Say No" or the way to end war is to just "Stop the Killing." Perhaps if EVERYONE agreed to act in concert on those statements, we could solve those problems, but the reality is that we can't get a few hundred people on Avalon to agree 100% on any given subject. Consequently, the likelihood of getting 7 billion people to all agree with a simplistic solution is virtually non-existent.

Why? I bet if you asked a hundred psychologists or psychiatrists the question, you'd get a hundred different answers/opinions. I'd also bet that if we examined the answers given we'd find a common thread and that that common thread would be fear and conditioning. The majority of the human species fears change (the unknown). I don't know whether it is innate or a byproduct of our conditioning (or a combination of both). Does that mean we should give up and accept our fate? Absolutely not! But I think it does mean we must address our fear and conditioning issues first. Then we might have a chance at changing the world for the better.

Then by all means, do beg. You can rationalize it all you want but the inconvieneance to your life is what keeps you locked in fear as fear paralizes. Tell us what would it cost you to not comply? What if we all did at the same time? What will they do? Tell us all the good reasons to continue in servitude. Why ask when you can be the answer by example? I don't need validation from anyone to know this will work if only we act. Stop being afraid of nothing. Start acting like GOD. Are we not created in the image and likeness? We just don't want to accept all the "Responsability" that goes along with it. We just want to go along with the program.

[PHARAOH]

In reading over my post above, it sounds much more confusing than it really is...there's just too many implications from following that one little 'loophole' I found in the code regarding the reserve banks.

Simply speaking, deeply hidden in the codes of law there are 'loopholes'. By taking the time to research the loopholes, you will find a way out of their control into your own sovereignity.

ie you don't have to stop paying your taxes to make a change...they'll definitely come after you for that. Simply speaking...Taxes are owed because you used their FRN's. Turn it into lawful money, keep records of everything in and out of your bank account that you have set up turning deposits into lawful money and purchasing in lawful money for at least a year, and the following year you will owe no taxes. By writing "Redeemed lawful money per 12-USC-411" on the back of a FRN you are actually reducing the national debt. Using lawful money also removes the lien the Federal Reserve has on you and your possessions.

You just have to do your homework. They think we are too dumb and lazy to do this and therefore deserve what we get.

Belle, this is much too complicated and time consuming given our dilema and time restraints. NON-Compliance is the shortest quickest way to create the world we should be living in. By the way, engaging them in this manner you are sure to lose as you will be alone with no help in thier lions den. Also do you have any paperwork to substantiate your claim? If so, post please.

[Belle]

In reading over my post above, it sounds much more confusing than it really is...there's just too many implications from following that one little 'loophole' I found in the code regarding the reserve banks.

Simply speaking, deeply hidden in the codes of law there are 'loopholes'. By taking the time to research the loopholes, you will find a way out of their control into your own sovereignity.

ie you don't have to stop paying your taxes to make a change...they'll definitely come after you for that. Simply speaking...Taxes are owed because you used their FRN's. Turn it into lawful money, keep records of everything in and out of your bank account that you have set up turning deposits into lawful money and purchasing in lawful money for at least a year, and the following year you will owe no taxes. By writing "Redeemed lawful money per 12-USC-411" on the back of a FRN you are actually reducing the national debt. Using lawful money also removes the lien the Federal Reserve has on you and your possessions.

You just have to do your homework. They think we are too dumb and lazy to do this and therefore deserve what we get.

Belle, this is much too complicated and time consuming given our dilema and time restraints. NON-Compliance is the shortest quickest way to create the world we should be living in. By the way, engaging them in this manner you are sure to lose as you will be alone with no help in thier lions den. Also do you have any paperwork to substantiate your claim? If so, post please.

PHAROAH, I think you just proved their point.

You suggest we defy the law. I am suggesting we comply with the law.

As I posted above, to be found at http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/12/411.html


TITLE 12 > CHAPTER 3 > SUBCHAPTER XII > § 411
Prev | Next § 411. Issuance to reserve banks; nature of obligation; redemption
How Current is This? Federal reserve notes, to be issued at the discretion of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System for the purpose of making advances to Federal reserve banks through the Federal reserve agents as hereinafter set forth and for no other purpose, are authorized. The said notes shall be obligations of the United States and shall be receivable by all national and member banks and Federal reserve banks and for all taxes, customs, and other public dues. They shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States, in the city of Washington, District of Columbia, or at any Federal Reserve bank.

And from http://www.scribd.com/doc/12964977/How-to-Endorse-a-Check



snip

Making checks a non-taxable event

This is all based upon what is lawful money of value and HJR-192 (House Joint Resolution-192, June 5, 1933) , that none is in circulation for private use by the public. There are no lawful dollars out there only credit and debt ledger entrees, and no one gets paid for anything with anything of valuable substance. The IRS can’t tax credit, debt, or barter.

The Congress licensed the use of FRNs to be used as money, as a medium or exchange for discharge of public and private debt into the US bankruptcy. At that point FRNs became contraband and that gives the BATF and the IRS jurisdiction over its use and transfer.

snip

“Federal Reserve notes are legal tender currency notes. The twelve Federal Reserve Banks issue them into circulation pursuant to the Federal Reserve Act of 1913. A commercial bank belonging to the Federal Reserve System can obtain Federal Reserve notes from the Federal Reserve Bank in its district whenever it wishes. It must pay for them in full, dollar for dollar, by drawing down its account with its district Federal Reserve Bank.

Federal Reserve Banks obtain the notes from our Bureau of Engraving and Printing (BEP). It pays the BEP for the cost of producing the notes, which then become liabilities of the Federal Reserve Banks, and obligations of the United States Government.

Congress has specified that a Federal Reserve Bank must hold collateral equal in value to the Federal Reserve notes that the Bank receives. This collateral is chiefly gold certificates and United States securities. This provides backing for the note issue. The idea was that if the Congress dissolved the Federal Reserve System, the United States would take over the notes (liabilities). This would meet the requirements of Section 411, but the government would also take over the assets, which would be of equal value. Federal Reserve notes represent a first lien on all the assets of the Federal Reserve Banks, and on the collateral specifically held against them.

Federal Reserve notes are not redeemable in gold, silver or any other commodity, and receive no backing by anything. This has been the case since 1933. The notes have no value for themselves, but for what they will buy. In another sense, because they are legal tender, Federal Reserve notes are "backed" by all the goods and
services in the economy.”

"Federal Reserve notes represent a first lien on all the assets of the Federal Reserve Banks, and on the collateral specifically held against them." Collateral...we are the collateral. Ever wonder why when a soldier is killed it is called 'collateral damage'? The liens are on us and our homes, cars, property.

If you can, please read 'How to Endorse a Check' fully. It's only 30 pages, and packed with references.

[Vividity]

For example...

Backyard Barter is a community project in Seattle funded by the Seattle Department of Neighborhoods in partnership with Seattle Tilth. The project will offer a free website and monthly in-person events for those interested in bartering homegrown and homemade food, and related skills and resources. No longer will project participants have to suffer through eating an overabundant crop of broccoli by themselves, wonder what to do with leftover pullet feed, or complain that they don’t know how to set up their own drip irrigation system! Anyone will be able to connect with someone with whom they can barter. This project will enhance the variety and locality of food eaten by participants, will create connections between individuals of varying skill-sets, and further develop a community of home food producers focused locally.

As part of the 2010 Year of Urban Agriculture, the Seattle City Council approved Council Bill 116907 that supports the rapidly growing local food movement. The ordinance updates the City’s Land Use code governing urban agriculture uses, including allowing “urban farms” and “community gardens” in all zones, with some limitations in industrial zones. Also, residents will now be able to sell food grown on their property. Local farmers markets (and their participants) have been growing in number for the last few years in the Puget Sound area.

[DoubleHelix]

Some good debating all round!

What I was edging towards was gradual non-compliance, where one would slowly wean themselves from all associations connecting them to the system. Not standing up and declaring "I won't comply" and in doing so stop paying your electric bills, start breaking the law and so forth. My suggestion is to ultimately deprive these governing powers by generating and harbouring our own resources, such ways to implement this would be through taking advantage of what mother earth provides to us naturally and not depending on an external source to provide our daily needs.

Simple things like - (Electricity) can be gained through solar power generators and stored into batteries. (Water) can be caught into sizeable rain water tanks and used throughout homes. (Food) can be grown on your property and in greenhouses, space isn't necessarily a problem!.

Here's a brilliant format for a sustainable way of growing food (Fish and Vegetables) - http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?22301-Growing-Power-Inc.-sustainably-and-justly-grown-food

The key to having success with this concept is through forming communities with strength in numbers. As far as food and water are concerned you could implement a trading system where each person grows a different food or collects water and trades accordingly without money ever changing hands. This in my eyes is one of the most crucial points - negating the need to rely on money.

Another plus side to having a tight-knit community would be having everyone well informed about subjects we talk freely about here in the alternative community.

Look forward to your feedback.

[ViralSpiral]

"An Emporer cannot rule if he hasn't an Empire to address to"




and no-one to notice that he isnt wearing any clothes!!!

Thank you of starting this tought-provoking thread.
Although I would love to pursue Pharoahs vision on non-compliance, I am still attached to my present reality. Non-compliance over effluent issues makes for sh*tty situations :)

As sshenry says: Without that paradigm shift; without the ability to move past the fear of the unkown, you will continue to have a large percentage of the population who would wilingly trade their freedom for the illusion of safety, and as long as there arae those willing to do that, there are those - like these shadow elite - who will take advantage of their desperation.


That is, until I rid myself of this fear and jump off the cliff knowing a net will be there. I am getting there.... and I think many others are too

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee, free fallingggggggg :)



Along with your link to Starve the Beast, I linked other threads with more wonderful information in the thread: Growing Power, Inc. ~ sustainably and justly grown food
Kindly excuse duplication. The info is important!



Vividity, thanks again for all your links.

You may also find valuable information from these past threads



Move families outside the cities (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?21683-Congressman-Warns-%C2%93Those-Who-Can-Should-Move-Their-Families-Out-Of-the-City%C2%94)


Stepping out the Rat Race (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?19040-Stepping-out-of-Rat-Race-and-Jumping-into-Real-World&p=229827#post229827)

Finding a way out of the Rate Race (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?20718-Need-to-find-a-way-out-of-the-rat-race)

Jumping onto the real world (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?19040-Stepping-out-of-Rat-Race-and-Jumping-into-Real-World)

[Michelle Marie]

I LOVE this thread! It's the solution I see and have begun to practice in many ways. Although some may not have confidence in the majority of the human race, we might be surprised at how many change for various reasons--suddenly. It may be new awareness of truth from the outer world, it may be because of intuitive guidance, it may be because one may finally wake up or get fed up. Many may not show what they are up to or even talk about it in terms of stepping out of the old system, but quietly they exit and begin "flying under the radar" so to speak.

I personally transmit such messages to the whole intentionally. We are all telepathic and our transmissions make a difference. We are all One, connected more than we used to realize, and we can apply this Oneness awareness and make an impression on the consciousness of many others. We don't tamper with free will choice, but it may be received as an idea or suggestion that one may choose or not choose. Either way, more seeds have been planted here and now on this forum--just by us talking about it. Together, we are giving it attention and energy. We can share the intention that the old control energy dissipates and the old system falls away. That will assist the process. But as I perceive it, it IS already happening.

In fact, I "saw" that this would happen a long time ago and wrote it in a book entitled: "Axes for Taxes" 8 or 9 years ago. (It's in a children's book format and has not been published yet. I have printed it myself, however, and given it away to friends. I've written over 48 other titles of "Stories for Awakened Awareness," but I've only self-published 2 of them.) The idea of focusing on the same intention as a group is very powerful. I have shown these stories as presentations at events. I'm going to do it again this summer with the group unified intention of affecting the mass consciousness. Maybe I'll start a thread about setting group intentions. Actually, I'm new...I don't know if I can do that yet.

At any rate, it takes each one of us, one by one, and community by community, to actually do these things and more and more will follow. I live in a community that is definitely heading in this direction. We are growing food, decreasing dependency on automobiles (we walk and bike ride), doing trades and setting up trade organizations, some have printed "personal currency" and traded that for services, we have a very high rate of unvaccinated children, have a place to drop off clothes and people can pick them up for free, a free book exchange, leave things we don't want in front of our houses with a sign that says FREE, share what we have, etc. And I love this: people are not leaving their houses. They just stop paying the bank and stay there. Isn't that happening all over?

Thank you all so much for these perfectly wonderful solutions. Non-compliance...I'm in!

[PHARAOH]

In reading over my post above, it sounds much more confusing than it really is...there's just too many implications from following that one little 'loophole' I found in the code regarding the reserve banks.

Simply speaking, deeply hidden in the codes of law there are 'loopholes'. By taking the time to research the loopholes, you will find a way out of their control into your own sovereignity.

ie you don't have to stop paying your taxes to make a change...they'll definitely come after you for that. Simply speaking...Taxes are owed because you used their FRN's. Turn it into lawful money, keep records of everything in and out of your bank account that you have set up turning deposits into lawful money and purchasing in lawful money for at least a year, and the following year you will owe no taxes. By writing "Redeemed lawful money per 12-USC-411" on the back of a FRN you are actually reducing the national debt. Using lawful money also removes the lien the Federal Reserve has on you and your possessions.

You just have to do your homework. They think we are too dumb and lazy to do this and therefore deserve what we get.

Belle, this is much too complicated and time consuming given our dilema and time restraints. NON-Compliance is the shortest quickest way to create the world we should be living in. By the way, engaging them in this manner you are sure to lose as you will be alone with no help in thier lions den. Also do you have any paperwork to substantiate your claim? If so, post please.

PHAROAH, I think you just proved their point.

You suggest we defy the law. I am suggesting we comply with the law.

As I posted above, to be found at http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/12/411.html


TITLE 12 > CHAPTER 3 > SUBCHAPTER XII > § 411
Prev | Next § 411. Issuance to reserve banks; nature of obligation; redemption
How Current is This? Federal reserve notes, to be issued at the discretion of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System for the purpose of making advances to Federal reserve banks through the Federal reserve agents as hereinafter set forth and for no other purpose, are authorized. The said notes shall be obligations of the United States and shall be receivable by all national and member banks and Federal reserve banks and for all taxes, customs, and other public dues. They shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States, in the city of Washington, District of Columbia, or at any Federal Reserve bank.

And from http://www.scribd.com/doc/12964977/How-to-Endorse-a-Check



snip

Making checks a non-taxable event

This is all based upon what is lawful money of value and HJR-192 (House Joint Resolution-192, June 5, 1933) , that none is in circulation for private use by the public. There are no lawful dollars out there only credit and debt ledger entrees, and no one gets paid for anything with anything of valuable substance. The IRS can’t tax credit, debt, or barter.

The Congress licensed the use of FRNs to be used as money, as a medium or exchange for discharge of public and private debt into the US bankruptcy. At that point FRNs became contraband and that gives the BATF and the IRS jurisdiction over its use and transfer.

snip

“Federal Reserve notes are legal tender currency notes. The twelve Federal Reserve Banks issue them into circulation pursuant to the Federal Reserve Act of 1913. A commercial bank belonging to the Federal Reserve System can obtain Federal Reserve notes from the Federal Reserve Bank in its district whenever it wishes. It must pay for them in full, dollar for dollar, by drawing down its account with its district Federal Reserve Bank.

Federal Reserve Banks obtain the notes from our Bureau of Engraving and Printing (BEP). It pays the BEP for the cost of producing the notes, which then become liabilities of the Federal Reserve Banks, and obligations of the United States Government.

Congress has specified that a Federal Reserve Bank must hold collateral equal in value to the Federal Reserve notes that the Bank receives. This collateral is chiefly gold certificates and United States securities. This provides backing for the note issue. The idea was that if the Congress dissolved the Federal Reserve System, the United States would take over the notes (liabilities). This would meet the requirements of Section 411, but the government would also take over the assets, which would be of equal value. Federal Reserve notes represent a first lien on all the assets of the Federal Reserve Banks, and on the collateral specifically held against them.

Federal Reserve notes are not redeemable in gold, silver or any other commodity, and receive no backing by anything. This has been the case since 1933. The notes have no value for themselves, but for what they will buy. In another sense, because they are legal tender, Federal Reserve notes are "backed" by all the goods and
services in the economy.”

"Federal Reserve notes represent a first lien on all the assets of the Federal Reserve Banks, and on the collateral specifically held against them." Collateral...we are the collateral. Ever wonder why when a soldier is killed it is called 'collateral damage'? The liens are on us and our homes, cars, property.

If you can, please read 'How to Endorse a Check' fully. It's only 30 pages, and packed with references.

Belle I may agree with you on all of this however it cannot be put into practice as these are really traps set up to bait us into falling into thier prison system one at a time without anyone taking notice since they will consider you crazy (INCOMPETANT) and lock you up. BTW what is law? Why are you attempting to engage them in this manner? I will bet my home that you anyone who attempts this will lose all day as they will make a mockery out of anyone whom uses this stradegy. It's a trap. If you can show us proof in the form of a video or tax forms please do so and post. If it is just great info you've come accross and makes sense I agree but to practice this is a 1 way ticket to prison garanteed. If it were this simple and true we would all be doing it right now. I lovz you anywayz..... :blabla:

[Belle]

Lovz you too, PHAROAH.

What I'm doing may not be for everyone. Once I learned about what the bankers have done to us through the government, I had to find out how deep the rabbit hole went...it's much deeper than you could ever imagine. They have basically cursed us to a life of servitude for their own material gain and power. I choose to use their own law against them, reversing the curse. They are prepared to deal with people who break the law...but I'm staying within their own laws that provide a remedy to the unconstitutional Federal Reserve system.

The government is not the enemy...it's the bankers who 'own' the government and everything in it. I seek my own sovereignity rather than slavery, and am willing to do what is necessary to make that happen using the tools they have provided. How can they punish me for obeying their own laws?

I, too, believe in building community. As I've posted before, my neighbors and I all garden, preserve the yield through canning and dehydrating, and share in the bounty. My daughter is doing this in her neighborhood. We already do a lot of what has been posted on this thread.

My concern is that the bankers, through the government and their codes and laws, are trying to back us into a corner by doing such things as attempting to make home gardening illegal and outlawing herbal remedies. Make gardening illegal and people will be forced to eat their GMO's. Make herbal remedies illegal, and people will be forced to using their phamaceuticals. Disobey the law and suffer the consequences.

[Lord Sidious]

Pharaoh, let me ask you a question, have you researched any of what Belle put up?

[PHARAOH]

Pharaoh, let me ask you a question, have you researched any of what Belle put up?

Yes. If someone can show us evidence of it working by posting a video of how its done and show us proof of this "working in practice" then lets get on with it. If it is just look what I found out, look at what I know, and thier is no proof that it works then we are just taking about what we know, but do not and cannot practice as it is considered "breaking the law". What Belle is doing is great, but what will she do when they knock on her door to tell her she is "breaking the law" and is "under arrest"? Who will stand up for her? Who will defend her? How? etc, etc, etc...... That rabbit hole has no bottom and it's a freefall with no end. :sorry:

As it stands right now it is only info. We have no evidence this works.

[Lord Sidious]

Ok, next question for you then, what did you do to research this and did that include trying anything?

[PHARAOH]

Ok, next question for you then, what did you do to research this and did that include trying anything?

Lord Sidious, make your point please.

Question for you. Have you tried any of this and succeeded? If so please post.

[Lord Sidious]

Ok, next question for you then, what did you do to research this and did that include trying anything?

Lord Sidious, make your point please.

Question for you. Have you tried any of this and succeeded? If so please post.

I wanted to know how you determined it won't work and people will go to jail.
You may notice I have not made any claims here.
I am not trying to provoke you nor am I trying to make you out as an idiot, I was just trying to find out where you are at.

[Belle]

Pharaoh, let me ask you a question, have you researched any of what Belle put up?

Yes. If someone can show us evidence of it working by posting a video of how its done and show us proof of this "working in practice" then lets get on with it.

What proof have you that it doesn't work?

All the information you need is out there...you just need to be willing to do some work for yourself. It is not my responsibility to do all the work for you. There is much benefit to be found in doing your own research, as Rob has so graciously led me to learn...for myself.

There is much anecdotal evidence that it works, but you will never find the 'proof' it works until you try it yourself. Do you really think they want everyone to know about this? If too many people actually did this successfully, that would mean the end of the Fed...and we can't have that, can we?

Afraid? Then don't try. But I ask with all due respect to please stop the fearmongering. You will not stop freedom loving people from pursuing legal remedy. It is there and available for those with the courage to seek their own sovereignity and willing to do the work to make it happen LEGALLY.

[ceetee9]

The answer is simple. "NON-COMPLIANCE"
I beg to differ. If the answer was that simple, we'd all be doing it. It's like saying the solution to the drug problem is "Just Say No" or the way to end war is to just "Stop the Killing." Perhaps if EVERYONE agreed to act in concert on those statements, we could solve those problems, but the reality is that we can't get a few hundred people on Avalon to agree 100% on any given subject. Consequently, the likelihood of getting 7 billion people to all agree with a simplistic solution is virtually non-existent.

Why? I bet if you asked a hundred psychologists or psychiatrists the question, you'd get a hundred different answers/opinions. I'd also bet that if we examined the answers given we'd find a common thread and that that common thread would be fear and conditioning. The majority of the human species fears change (the unknown). I don't know whether it is innate or a byproduct of our conditioning (or a combination of both). Does that mean we should give up and accept our fate? Absolutely not! But I think it does mean we must address our fear and conditioning issues first. Then we might have a chance at changing the world for the better.

Then by all means, do beg. You can rationalize it all you want but the inconvieneance to your life is what keeps you locked in fear as fear paralizes. Tell us what would it cost you to not comply? What if we all did at the same time? What will they do? Tell us all the good reasons to continue in servitude. Why ask when you can be the answer by example? I don't need validation from anyone to know this will work if only we act. Stop being afraid of nothing. Start acting like GOD. Are we not created in the image and likeness? We just don't want to accept all the "Responsability" that goes along with it. We just want to go along with the program.

Pharaoh, I think you missed my point. I agree with you that fear paralyzes and that (and a lifetime of programming/conditioning) is precisely what keeps us locked into doing the same things. I never said that we should continue down that road. You ask what it would cost to not comply. In this country there's a little thing called the law. If you don't comply, you go to jail. There are thousands of examples in this country alone where people have not complied by not paying their mortgage or taxes and now they are homeless. And there are thousands of more examples in other countries where those who "don't comply" end up beaten, tortured and/or killed. Those are pretty powerful motivations to keep you in compliance. Does that mean I think we should remain in compliance/servitude. Absolutely not! But you have to be realistic. The only way you can beat the system is by shear numbers. A few hundred or thousand people not complying is not likely to get the job done. We will need millions of people not complying all at the same time to stand a chance. But that is only the start. What do you propose to put in place once the current system is defeated? I like the idea of a Contributionist society, yet I don't think there are a handful of people on Avalon that even understands what that implies, much less agree with it.

A major paradigm shift like what is being bandied about here requires full support of millions. Short of that, all you will end up with is more people worse off than they are now, in jail or dead.

[Lochinvar]

Pharaoh, let me ask you a question, have you researched any of what Belle put up?

Yes. If someone can show us evidence of it working by posting a video of how its done and show us proof of this "working in practice" then lets get on with it.

If too many people actually did this successfully, that would mean the end of the Fed...and we can't have that, can we?



I agree with much of what you have written Belle. I wonder what views you have on the Max Keiser campaign to "Buy Silver Crash JP Morgan". Do you think he has identified an area of weakness that can be exploited by buying physical silver?

[Dorok]

Pharaoh, let me ask you a question, have you researched any of what Belle put up?

Yes. If someone can show us evidence of it working by posting a video of how its done and show us proof of this "working in practice" then lets get on with it.

What proof have you that it doesn't work?

All the information you need is out there...you just need to be willing to do some work for yourself. It is not my responsibility to do all the work for you. There is much benefit to be found in doing your own research, as Rob has so graciously led me to learn...for myself.

There is much anecdotal evidence that it works, but you will never find the 'proof' it works until you try it yourself. Do you really think they want everyone to know about this? If too many people actually did this successfully, that would mean the end of the Fed...and we can't have that, can we?

Afraid? Then don't try. But I ask with all due respect to please stop the fearmongering. You will not stop freedom loving people from pursuing legal remedy. It is there and available for those with the courage to seek their own sovereignity and willing to do the work to make it happen LEGALLY.

Belle, LS & Pharaoh:

I think Pharaoh is within his rights to ask for evidence. We've all researched numerous dubious methods, and like ETs for example, there's a lot of talk and not much proof. And I think the burden of proof is on the presenter.

I, for one, will not participate in any method that's unproven; conversely, I'm very likely to participate in a method that is.

Therefore, if someone really believes they have a method (and presumably wishes to share and have others adopt and/or believe in it), the burden is on them to explain and prove.

Belle, I'm making no assumptions as to your motives for sharing; however, is there anything you can show us that demonstrates how your deposits are different after trying this method?

[Lord Sidious]

Pharaoh, let me ask you a question, have you researched any of what Belle put up?

Yes. If someone can show us evidence of it working by posting a video of how its done and show us proof of this "working in practice" then lets get on with it.

What proof have you that it doesn't work?

All the information you need is out there...you just need to be willing to do some work for yourself. It is not my responsibility to do all the work for you. There is much benefit to be found in doing your own research, as Rob has so graciously led me to learn...for myself.

There is much anecdotal evidence that it works, but you will never find the 'proof' it works until you try it yourself. Do you really think they want everyone to know about this? If too many people actually did this successfully, that would mean the end of the Fed...and we can't have that, can we?

Afraid? Then don't try. But I ask with all due respect to please stop the fearmongering. You will not stop freedom loving people from pursuing legal remedy. It is there and available for those with the courage to seek their own sovereignity and willing to do the work to make it happen LEGALLY.

Belle, LS & Pharaoh:

I think Pharaoh is within his rights to ask for evidence. We've all researched numerous dubious methods, and like ETs for example, there's a lot of talk and not much proof. And I think the burden of proof is on the presenter.

I, for one, will not participate in any method that's unproven; conversely, I'm very likely to participate in a method that is.

Therefore, if someone really believes they have a method (and presumably wishes to share and have others adopt and/or believe in it), the burden is on them to explain and prove.

Belle, I'm making no assumptions as to your motives for sharing; however, is there anything you can show us that demonstrates how your deposits are different after trying this method?

I don't disagree with you on that, he is entitled to ask for evidence.
That isn't my problem.
It is the talk of people going to jail part that I am wary of.
Why do we need to speak to each other like that?
I myself have tried many things that are unproved and I have never been arrested.
And I would not be very happy with people not willing to try things after we researched something until they got proof.
I tried things.

[Dorok]

True enough, you & Belle have good enough reason to ask for his evidence of the consequences!

Meanwhile...

I'd still like proof of what this check endorsement method personally, functionally does for all the effort. Always looking for good ways to not comply ;)

[Belle]

I'm not sure what kind of proof I could offer that would be accepted or believed.

1.However, there is an ongoing dialogue with a wealth of great information at http://www.suijurisforum.com/viewtopic.php?forum_uri=lawful-money&t=112&start=120 Lots of good information on both sides...believers and unbelievers.

The following is a post taken from the Sui Juris Club Forum:


Re: Lawful Money...
by David Merrill » Tue Mar 29, 2011 5:28 pm

Everything but This is obligations of the US Treasury.

The fractional increase is what is covered by your endorsement bond.

Last year this fellow was grateful enough - Tax Refund. So this year I imagine he is genuinely grateful! 2010 Refund. These days, it is worth the trouble of reducing the national debt; especially if it puts $25K back in your pocket.

This fellow is a banker too. And part of his job keeps a Tax Preparation License current! He noted me on SJC mid-2009 and was at his friend's home, at a party. His friend's sister is an IRS attorney and he overheard her say, There is a group of people in Colorado who don't pay Income Tax; they are doing it right. Well, she clammed right up but he figured it was me.



When I wrote back asking if this was the same amount on his Return:

Yes. Thank you David.


I was pushing my friend to discuss our redemption of lawful money with his sister that works in a legal department at IRS.
She was very resistant and she would not discuss it even privately. I think they have a policy there at IRS.

It has been 4 weeks since IRS has received my 1040 and my continuous insistence and questioning whether there are any new developments at the IRS regarding demanding lawful money per Title 12 USC 411; this Monday she finally said that typically IRS has 6 weeks to respond (sort of legal zone) and when someone is demanding lawful money he is considered out of the FR System. The IRS is creating a special file and that person's activities are being scrutinized by them.David Merrill



2.There is also a free version of "The Secret of Oz" on YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swkq2E8mswI



3.Wonderful info at http://mortgage-home-loan-bank-fraud.com/America_and_the_Fed.htm




snip

Without Prejudice U.C.C. 1-207

When used in conjunction with one's signature, a stamp stating "Without Prejudice U.C.C. 1-207" is sufficient to indicate to the magistrate of any of our present Legislative Tribunals (called "courts") that the signer of the document has reserved his Common Law right. He is not to be bound to the statute, or commercial obligation, of any commercial agreement that he did not enter knowingly, voluntarily, and intentionally, as would be the case in any Common Law contract.

Furthermore, pursuant to U.C.C. 1-103, the statute being enforced as a commercial obligation of a commercial agreement, must now be construed in harmony with the old Common Law of America, where the tribunal/court must rule that the statute does not apply to the individual who is wise enough and informed enough to exercise the remedy provided in this new system of law. He retains his former status in the Republic and fully enjoys his unalienable rights, guaranteed to him by the Constitution of the Republic, while those about him "curse the darkness" of Commercial Law government, lacking the truth needed to free themselves from a slave status under the Federal United States, even while inhabiting territory foreign to its territorial venue. Howard Freeman


4. Downloadable files of Tom Schauf research and writings at http://www.4shared.com/dir/L9hzDsjN/Tom_Schauf.html#


I'm not sure what else I can offer other than more links, codes and information if this is not enough. I have just begun doing this myself, not to get out of paying taxes, but to test the waters of sovereignity.

When researching, it does require you to suspend everything you have been taught to believe. The information does seem confusing to begin with because there is so much of it.

[Dorok]

Thank you, Belle! I will have to devote some time to looking into all of that.

Can I ask, is this something you practice?

[Belle]

Pharaoh, let me ask you a question, have you researched any of what Belle put up?

Yes. If someone can show us evidence of it working by posting a video of how its done and show us proof of this "working in practice" then lets get on with it.

If too many people actually did this successfully, that would mean the end of the Fed...and we can't have that, can we?



I agree with much of what you have written Belle. I wonder what views you have on the Max Keiser campaign to "Buy Silver Crash JP Morgan". Do you think he has identified an area of weakness that can be exploited by buying physical silver?


I have some silver I bought at $7. an ounce more as a hedge against inflation than anything else.

I have no feelings whatsoever with the Max Keiser campaign...I am not well enough informed to determine if he is basing his ideas on rumor, hearsay or propaganda, or whether it is exactly what will take down JP Morgan.

imo fwiw JP Morgan is only one player in this game. If they go down, another will take its place.

My focus is to make it unprofitable for the Federal Reserve to continue, and to learn as much as I can about gaining my sovereignity and exercising my rights as a freeman on the land. Still haven't found a way to get rid of the strawman, though!

[Lochinvar]

I hope you don't think I am trying to undermine what you are saying. I'm not. I have looked into individual sovereignty issues as well (the work of Robert Menard in Canada is very interesting). I still think these tactics have their part to play. I would not however rule out the possibility that JP Morgan is a major share holder in the private institution that is the Federal Reserve bank. I would also not rule out the possibility that other organisations that short sell silver would not go under when the price goes up. Of course when people see (a) the price of the metal rising and (b) their actions affecting change, I think more will get involved. The wealthy investors can then move on to different targets.

The methods of individual sovereignty and buying silver as part of a large group of people can both be acted upon at the same time. The total above ground physical silver market is about 17 billion dollars (tiny).

[Belle]

To answer your question, Dorok...

On discovering 12-USC-411, I started immediately by writing in red ink on the back of any frn's I used "LAWFUL MONEY PER 12-USC-411" to record my demand...just dipping my toe in the water before making the final jump. Just last week I created a new bank account using the changes recommended, and am waiting for my stamps to arrive so I don't have to write everything out all the time.

Two more links that are invaluable to understanding this whole concept:

1. Very clear and concise info at http://stormthunder.com/federal-reserve-act/


2. A video on the Federal Reserve Act Remedy at https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B1EaV_bU7VImNjA0NTQ5MTItNTg2Mi00N2QyLWE5Y2UtMDMzNGU0YWE3NWE5&hl=en

These two are perhaps the simplest overviews of the remedy, and should have been the first two links I presented.

Remember, this is contract law not constitutional law. Our whole system is based on UCC, contract law.

[Belle]

I hope you don't think I am trying to undermine what you are saying. I'm not. I have looked into individual sovereignty issues as well (the work of Robert Menard in Canada is very interesting). I still think these tactics have their part to play. I would not however rule out the possibility that JP Morgan is a major share holder in the private institution that is the Federal Reserve bank. I would also not rule out the possibility that other organisations that short sell silver would not go under when the price goes up. Of course when people see (a) the price of the metal rising and (b) their actions affecting change, I think more will get involved. The wealthy investors can then move on to different targets.

The methods of individual sovereignty and buying silver as part of a large group of people can both be acted upon at the same time. The total above ground physical silver market is about 17 billion dollars (tiny).

I agree with your wisdom, Lochinvar. The one thing to remember is that metal is only rising because 'dollars' are losing value.

Robert Menard has much of value to contribute to the sovereignity movement.

Being the chicken that I am, I research, research, and research before taking any action...preferring to test the waters a little at a time. It is so involved and there is so much to learn that I'm trying to walk before I run. It's just way too easy to get in over your head way too quickly for my tastes. I know of many people who apply what they learn immediately without fully understanding the whole picture and what it involves...they usually learn a hard lesson.

How does the saying go? " Q. How do you eat an elephant? A. One bite at a time!"

[PHARAOH]

This is fantastic!!! We have all researched the same material and are disucssing them as we have applied them. I for one have appllied methods to get out of illegal speeding tickets however was threatened to be held in contempt, if I did not bite my tongue. Have the audio recording but to stupid to post. The bailiff took my recorder and informed the judge. The recording light immediaelty went off in the court room. I demanded my recorder back and got it after they screwed me but i took my stand. I also researched Marc Stevens as he too has powerful concepts. I combined his technics with the mindset of Robert Menard and got my ass handed to me. I was down for about 2 weeks. Next time i'll would do things a bit different. Learned alot but failed as we must learn the process. These individuals must be brought together to indoctrinate us on these practices so we can utilize them to unlock this matrix. If we can't; then this is as far as we will come. Lot's of info and talk with no proven results. Thank you, Dorok for overstanding what is was attempting to bring forth in my statements. You read minds well.

[Lochinvar]

I hope you don't think I am trying to undermine what you are saying. I'm not. I have looked into individual sovereignty issues as well (the work of Robert Menard in Canada is very interesting). I still think these tactics have their part to play. I would not however rule out the possibility that JP Morgan is a major share holder in the private institution that is the Federal Reserve bank. I would also not rule out the possibility that other organisations that short sell silver would not go under when the price goes up. Of course when people see (a) the price of the metal rising and (b) their actions affecting change, I think more will get involved. The wealthy investors can then move on to different targets.

The methods of individual sovereignty and buying silver as part of a large group of people can both be acted upon at the same time. The total above ground physical silver market is about 17 billion dollars (tiny).

I agree with your wisdom, Lochinvar. The one thing to remember is that metal is only rising because 'dollars' are losing value.

Robert Menard has much of value to contribute to the sovereignity movement.

Being the chicken that I am, I research, research, and research before taking any action...preferring to test the waters a little at a time. It is so involved and there is so much to learn that I'm trying to walk before I run. It's just way too easy to get in over your head way too quickly for my tastes. I know of many people who apply what they learn immediately without fully understanding the whole picture and what it involves...they usually learn a hard lesson.

How does the saying go? " Q. How do you eat an elephant? A. One bite at a time!"

I've just read your signature. I love it. Doesn't go very well with paragraph 3 but it's good to be cautious at times too. The dollar isn't doing great and is mostly the reason for price increases in metals including silver. Silver is however special because of the size of the reserves (tiny) and the fact that it is consumed by industry whereas gold is mostly hoarded. The US Geological Survey have stated that silver could be the first metal to become extinct. I'm not sure I want them to be wrong.

[Belle]

This is fantastic!!! We have all researched the same material and are disucssing them as we have applied them. I for one have appllied methods to get out of illegal speeding tickets however was threatened to be held in contempt, if I did not bite my tongue. Have the audio recording but to stupid to post. The bailiff took my recorder and informed the judge. The recording light immediaelty went off in the court room. I demanded my recorder back and got it after they screwed me but i took my stand. I also researched Marc Stevens as he too has powerful concepts. I combined his technics with the mindset of Robert Menard and got my ass handed to me. I was down for about 2 weeks. Next time i'll would do things a bit different. Learned alot but failed as we must learn the process. These individuals must be brought together to indoctrinate us on these practices so we can utilize them to unlock this matrix. If we can't; then this is as far as we will come. Lot's of info and talk with no proven results. Thank you, Dorok for overstanding what is was attempting to bring forth in my statements. You read minds well.

PHAROAH, I do understand your frustration. I apologize sincerely for making an association between sovereignity and the Federal Reserve remedy...that seems to have caused more confusion than had I stuck to the LEGAL remedy to the fed.

I do know of someone who has applied the remedy for the last three years and been successful. I have asked if I could use him name and if he would be willing to validate his results. The answer was no... that it wouldn't mean anything if a person didn't understand the history of the federal reserve, the bankruptcy of 1933, and the codes that apply, etc. on their own thoroughly. He did not want to be responsible for people who would take the steps needed without fully understanding what they were doing and why. He felt that was the problem with the sovereignity movement...people doing what they think they need to do and say without a true understanding of what makes it effective, and why. His exact words were, "A little bit of knowledge misapplied will get you in trouble surer 'n ****."

[Belle]

=Lochinvar;239840I've just read your signature. I love it. Doesn't go very well with paragraph 3 but it's good to be cautious at times too. The dollar isn't doing great and is mostly the reason for price increases in metals including silver. Silver is however special because of the size of the reserves (tiny) and the fact that it is consumed by industry whereas gold is mostly hoarded. The US Geological Survey have stated that silver could be the first metal to become extinct. I'm not sure I want them to be wrong.

Good observation on the signature. When it comes to dealing with the law, I am very cautious. When it comes to living life fully...well, dang, it is a great ride!

[PHARAOH]

QUOTE=Belle;239860]
This is fantastic!!! We have all researched the same material and are disucssing them as we have applied them. I for one have appllied methods to get out of illegal speeding tickets however was threatened to be held in contempt, if I did not bite my tongue. Have the audio recording but to stupid to post. The bailiff took my recorder and informed the judge. The recording light immediaelty went off in the court room. I demanded my recorder back and got it after they screwed me but i took my stand. I also researched Marc Stevens as he too has powerful concepts. I combined his technics with the mindset of Robert Menard and got my ass handed to me. I was down for about 2 weeks. Next time i'll would do things a bit different. Learned alot but failed as we must learn the process. These individuals must be brought together to indoctrinate us on these practices so we can utilize them to unlock this matrix. If we can't; then this is as far as we will come. Lot's of info and talk with no proven results. Thank you, Dorok for overstanding what is was attempting to bring forth in my statements. You read minds well.



PHAROAH, I do understand your frustration. I apologize sincerely for making an association between sovereignity and the Federal Reserve remedy...that seems to have caused more confusion than had I stuck to the LEGAL remedy to the fed.

I do know of someone who has applied the remedy for the last three years and been successful. I have asked if I could use him name and if he would be willing to validate his results. The answer was no... that it wouldn't mean anything if a person didn't understand the history of the federal reserve, the bankruptcy of 1933, and the codes that apply, etc. on their own thoroughly. He did not want to be responsible for people who would take the steps needed without fully understanding what they were doing and why. He felt that was the problem with the sovereignity movement...people doing what they think they need to do and say without a true understanding of what makes it effective, and why. His exact words were, "A little bit of knowledge misapplied will get you in trouble surer 'n ****."[/QUOTE]

You see Belle, this is part of the problem. Those that know won't teach anyone. Therefore we will be stuck. When they are gone what remedy will we have then? If what he knows, is true and works, he should be teaching and educating the masses. After all, petty things like this have never stopped those in power from achieving thier goals. Did the Catholic church cease and dissist when they wer found to be frauds? Did the FEDS cease and dissist? Our Governments? No. So your friend wants to stand in judgement of the rest of the world, for our ingnorance, yet not do anything about it. I "HATE" that attitude and mindset. :bs: :tsk: :sorry:

[Dorok]

This is fantastic!!! We have all researched the same material and are disucssing them as we have applied them. I for one have appllied methods to get out of illegal speeding tickets however was threatened to be held in contempt, if I did not bite my tongue. Have the audio recording but to stupid to post. The bailiff took my recorder and informed the judge. The recording light immediaelty went off in the court room. I demanded my recorder back and got it after they screwed me but i took my stand. I also researched Marc Stevens as he too has powerful concepts. I combined his technics with the mindset of Robert Menard and got my ass handed to me. I was down for about 2 weeks. Next time i'll would do things a bit different. Learned alot but failed as we must learn the process. These individuals must be brought together to indoctrinate us on these practices so we can utilize them to unlock this matrix. If we can't; then this is as far as we will come. Lot's of info and talk with no proven results. Thank you, Dorok for overstanding what is was attempting to bring forth in my statements. You read minds well.

PHAROAH, I do understand your frustration. I apologize sincerely for making an association between sovereignity and the Federal Reserve remedy...that seems to have caused more confusion than had I stuck to the LEGAL remedy to the fed.

I do know of someone who has applied the remedy for the last three years and been successful. I have asked if I could use him name and if he would be willing to validate his results. The answer was no... that it wouldn't mean anything if a person didn't understand the history of the federal reserve, the bankruptcy of 1933, and the codes that apply, etc. on their own thoroughly. He did not want to be responsible for people who would take the steps needed without fully understanding what they were doing and why. He felt that was the problem with the sovereignity movement...people doing what they think they need to do and say without a true understanding of what makes it effective, and why. His exact words were, "A little bit of knowledge misapplied will get you in trouble surer 'n ****."

Belle, your friend is very correct that someone should thoroughly comprehend everything behind taking actions such as these, and he's right that it is not his job to teach anyone if he chooses not to. HOWEVER, what is being asked for is proof of concept and proof of a return on the investment of energy and effort. If this is as important to him enough to go through the hassle of his own education and other efforts, then, with full respect, there must be something tangible he can point to to demonstrate a result worthy of that effort. I understand completely that no one is under any obligation to do so, and that is solely my own requirement to participation.

[ghostrider]

don't re-act the way the ptb want you to. don't think the way they want, or live, be a free-thinking always questioning member of starship avalon. we are leading the way to a new life for all, whether you realize it or not. one drop makes a ripple and soon the wave is felt around the world.

[ktlight]

This is a brilliant thread, so much so, that it ought not to be dead.

Thank you Belle for your posts regarding IR, very enlightening. I admire you and wish you the very best in your endeavours.

Mary Elizabeth: Croft says there is no particular first step to take, in that there is no tried and true method, which is why we cannot acquire a list of things to do in a process to sovereignty.

This should not deter anyone from digging into knowledge to find a way to take a first step. It seems that if anyone is unsure of taking a step, dig deeper and wait until it becomes very clear.