The New Age Movement - TPTB's Silent Killer ?

[DoubleHelix]

Has it ever crossed your mind that the New Age Movement may have been designed by the TPTB to render some of the most gifted minds, that would otherwise be active at a time like now, into a state of Apathy and Denial. The greatest ploy ever concocted folks, could very well be under our noses and we haven't even noticed !!!

Is it just me or does the whole New Age Movement not sit right for you guys too? Forget about the ravaging, raping and pillaging of our planet... forget about the chemtrails and poisoning of our water... because come December, 2012 we're going to ascend into 5D... Or the Galactic Federation of Light is going to come down and rescue us.

Could it all just be a ploy to have us meditating 4 hours a day, sending out love and light, meanwhile there's death, destruction and inequality all around us and the state of the planet's increasingly becoming uninhabitable. You've got a community as large as the New Age Movement who could be out there applying them selves and taking action but meanwhile there in the lotus position off in la-la land surrendering there energies to some external source. It's a grand deception if I've ever seen one.. what do you all think ? ? ?

Below I've posted a video with a brief section that many may find informative. (by all means watch the whole radio show if it tickles ya fancy)

Md93t5NgXrk&start=417

And for anybody who missed Aaron's message last week, I recommend giving that a watch too.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s33j-NIob3E

[Tony]

Ahummm! Read my threads! NEW AGE = NEW WORLD .

[Teakai]

Yes.
But I don't know about gifted minds necessarily.

This is the new religion. This is the dawning of the age of aquarius.
And yes, it was all designed by the 'ptw'.

[Autumn]

I once aired the thought that all that light and love and peace being send out by this new age idea has to be balanced ... and how does one balance good? By adding evil. The problem is probably something in the line of there being a lot of love IN THOUGHT balanced in the world through action as the other extreme of being passive is being active. Light and dark are the same thing; just the extremes of the one and the same scale. Balance is the middle of that so the more one group stuffs into one extreme, the other will have to compentsate - logic really. And this balance is too great, to complicated and not just terestial so we are NOT intelligent or knowing enough to even grasp a tiny bit of the reasons behind (cosmos/God/All/?/pick one) doing what it's doing. But the ones pulling the strings - and in this case maybe disinfoing the new agers into doing TPTB dirty work - knows a hell of a lot more that we can scrape together in a sea full of disinfo.

Just my thoughts.

[Tony]

I agree. All these new words used, just water down one actual experience.
Owell wrote all about this is in his book '1984' it's called...new-speak.

Tony

[Teakai]

I knew this lady over the internet who was a born again Christian, but she was also into this new agey stuff. She would buy books like 'how to think yourself rich' (I made up that title so don't look for it)

I think a lot of these people are in it for material gain. It's a bit like they get to satisfy their spirituality and also get to have lots of stuff. So, how much love and light are they really putting out there.

"Ommmmmmnnnnnnnnnn I do have lots and lots of money and I am now rich beyond my wildest dreams, oh, and that bitch at the office will not get the promotion over me ommmnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn."

:-^

[dddanieljjjamesss]

New Age Belief is bad
New Age Science can possibly be good

It's in the Knowing, and if you have taken the time to pursue a lot of the 'new age' ideas and verify them via your own experience and the experience of others...

but simply believing will never allow you to understand subtler aspects of our reality

i don't waste time sitting around for 2012, i'm playing with my own energy and thinking of effective ways to send that into the surrounding world to help the people understand what they've got in them..

[Jayke]

Genuine meditation is done while you're up and active in the world, if a monk spends most of his life in a cave meditating in samadhi...he'll soon pop out of that samadhi if you throw him in the middle of a big city because he won't have the necassary skills to handle his environment.

As long as meditation is balanced with living a passionate life and choosing positivity instead of fear then there's actually a lot of good science to back up the healthy benefits of such a lifestyle.
I'd consider myself a fairly spiritual person and as such I choose to be a vegetarian, I do my best to buy from local community people, never buy branded stuff (electronics being the only exception) and most of my money goes on buying books or courses from independant researchers who have no affiliation with the destruction of the world, only people whose role it is to inspire and create a better world for ourselves. I'm not feeding the machine of the illuminati and I've only been able to break away from all the social conditioning and seperate myself from that system by meditating and understanding all the different spiritual aspects that the new age movement is founded on...If you'd spent 4 hours meditating in lotus position then you'd understand the actual physical and energetic benefits that such a practice would bring.

If you try to fight on their terms, you would get crushed...we have to take it to the next level and show them what leadership is really about, show them that we don't need them and don't want them...if we stop feeding them they'll wither and die or accept the new world order that we create.

Having said that though if you go to any new age type event like a mind body spirit event that you find here in the UK, you do find a lot of spiritual wannabes are that are mainly in it to make a buck or two and take advantage of peoples ignorance and curiosity so it can be a double edged sword I feel.

[DoubleHelix]

Hey Jayke, Thanks for the reply,

In regards to the meditation reference I was simply trying to portray an image.
I have the utmost respect for meditation, I practice it from time to time and I'm well aware of it's beneficial effects.
Just thought I'd clarify that, good post.

[Teakai]

Hey Jayke, Thanks for the reply,

In regards to the meditation reference I was simply trying to portray an image.
I have the utmost respect for meditation, I practice it from time to time and I'm well aware of it's beneficial effects.
Just thought I'd clarify that, good post.

Oh yeah, me too. I'm all for meditation.

[Nanoo Nanoo]

I just watched Aarons video. And now i feel sick .. I get exactly what he is saying and i summise that " Aaron " and the " new agers " that he refers to both got it wrong.

Firstly i agree that anybody that thinks we are going to be raptured is kidding themselves. Secondly it is apparent that Aaron has completely missed the point and is probably sick of New agers telling him the way to chill out. He is obviously angry about whats happening , there is no doubt that its not going well especially in the USA .. But this has been happening for thousands of years .. its what they do .. and now they grow bolder and do grander acts of malady .. thats no news flash.. Romans held shows of people killing each other as entertainment 2000 years ago .... Ouch .. glad i wasnt around back then.

New Agers be responsible for what you say. it makes us good new agers look bad.

Aaron your focus is on all the rubbish thats in the world, and you are completely disconnected from any form of real Intuition. And its no wonder you have such anger .. its palpable in your video. HOWEVER I would be very interested in what your action plan is and methods to fix this, and i say that without sarcasm .. id actually like to see this material. If he is offering solutions then that is a good thing. Where are they ? any links ?

People that think like Aaron let me speak on behalf of People who meditate. Meditation is a form of relaxing and centering the mind so that you can balance your life. Meditation is not the only action someone should take, thinking your way to a good future wont happen without getting off your bum. A Buddhist Monk Meditates , then reads, then exersises then tends to the field , then helps build huts , tends to livestock, then travels and mends peoples wounds.. eats , lives , loves etc etc .. as you can see meditation is only one part of their life.. So please realise that this is only part of a typical New Agers lifestyle generally speaking.. I meditate about 1 to 2 hours a day in the early morning before i do streching , sometimes boxing , martial arts , cycling. Then i study, read and do my lifes work. without Meditation i feel like i have no direction .. it helps me get what i need done, catergorised and planned in my mind. then i get off my bum and make it happen.

I would categorise myself as a New Ager .. but let me dispell some things. i dont believe we will ascend .. We will however be able to learn new ways of being. This is done through meditation. How else are you to learn .. its obvious the PTB wont teach us is it ? Anger is what shuts us off and Aaron is clearly shut off .. i doubt he could calm his mind for even 10 seconds. how can you make good things like this ?

New Energy constructs and collectives are the way of the future and what new agers are doing is trying to create this by being a part of a collective that is positive. This is actually scientifically proven to work. However thats only one point. This view of only meditating is perhaps a misunderstanding .. watching Aaron in this video i too would suggest he meditate and chill out and then when he was calm go and teach his way of fixing things. But as an angry man telling us that meditation is bad when pretty much every great man and woman that ever existed on this planet meditated ! hmmm ok you get my drift.

N
N

[9eagle9]

Don't know about gifted minds either. Gifted minds usually steer well clear of that sort of construct. If they go there they don't stay for long.

Lots of people make mention of the trap of new age everyday in this forum and are summarily attacked for it. I'm sure the PTB finds that just ducky. The more true intelligence is shouted down all the better for the PTB.

I've said mostly all I can about the dangers of New Age constructs. Ad nauseum. It's re-furbished Christianity and Buddhism or very old estoreic wisdoms that have been bent over a table and sodomized until rendered useless. Anything that can be profiled that easily is a construct, its built to serve a purpose and its very likely not a higher purpose.

Most of all.....

Don't ever get in a car with them.Their concepts of merging, light, direction don't translate well into the reality of highway driving.

[yaksuit]

The New Age - Occult Connection:

http://www.be-ready.org/occult.html
http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Cults/newage.htm

[Steven]

Designed no. Infiltrated and corrupted with confusion, yes. New Age stuff are nothing new, but old things. What is New in this Age is this fantastical moment of transformation: Never happenened before this way.

Namaste, Steven

[Nanoo Nanoo]

Designed no. Infiltrated and corrupted with confusion, yes. New Age stuff are nothing new, but old things. What is New in this Age is this fantastical moment of transformation: Never happenened before this way.

Namaste, Steven

Right on !

hey Aaron ive never said this but

Namaste :)

[Carolin]

I have been on the New Age/Spiritual path for 20ish years now. During that time I've had mind blowing experiences, met enlightened beings, and watched myself evolve. I've also seen vulchers preying on the weak, egos' running amok and pretenders just out for the money. Just like Christians, Jews, Born Agains, Jehovah Witness, etc, etc, the New Agers think they got it all figured out and they are the chosen ones.

I just had a conversation with a good friend last week about the 5th dimention. I was told that "doubt is ego", "I am lowering my energy by not believing" and that "we will be able to just think about water and it will appear". I didn't argue much because it's her truth and I have to respect that...but it certainly isn't mine. Just like any other religion I believe in live and let live. Whatever helps you through this lifetime.

On one level I am jealous of those that can follow blindly and be part of a group. I've never found a group/religion that I could fully be part of because there is always some part that doesn't resonate with me. And that makes me feel a little displaced. However, I would rather think on my own than follow blindly.

Light and Love

[Tony]

I just watched Aarons video. And now i feel sick .. I get exactly what he is saying and i summise that " Aaron " and the " new agers " that he refers to both got it wrong.

Firstly i agree that anybody that thinks we are going to be raptured is kidding themselves. Secondly it is apparent that Aaron has completely missed the point and is probably sick of New agers telling him the way to chill out. He is obviously angry about whats happening , there is no doubt that its not going well especially in the USA .. But this has been happening for thousands of years .. its what they do .. and now they grow bolder and do grander acts of malady .. thats no news flash.. Romans held shows of people killing each other as entertainment 2000 years ago .... Ouch .. glad i wasnt around back then.

New Agers be responsible for what you say. it makes us good new agers look bad.

Aaron your focus is on all the rubbish thats in the world, and you are completely disconnected from any form of real Intuition. And its no wonder you have such anger .. its palpable in your video. HOWEVER I would be very interested in what your action plan is and methods to fix this, and i say that without sarcasm .. id actually like to see this material. If he is offering solutions then that is a good thing. Where are they ? any links ?

People that think like Aaron let me speak on behalf of People who meditate. Meditation is a form of relaxing and centering the mind so that you can balance your life. Meditation is not the only action someone should take, thinking your way to a good future wont happen without getting off your bum. A Buddhist Monk Meditates , then reads, then exersises then tends to the field , then helps build huts , tends to livestock, then travels and mends peoples wounds.. eats , lives , loves etc etc .. as you can see meditation is only one part of their life.. So please realise that this is only part of a typical New Agers lifestyle generally speaking.. I meditate about 1 to 2 hours a day in the early morning before i do streching , sometimes boxing , martial arts , cycling. Then i study, read and do my lifes work. without Meditation i feel like i have no direction .. it helps me get what i need done, catergorised and planned in my mind. then i get off my bum and make it happen.

I would categorise myself as a New Ager .. but let me dispell some things. i dont believe we will ascend .. We will however be able to learn new ways of being. This is done through meditation. How else are you to learn .. its obvious the PTB wont teach us is it ? Anger is what shuts us off and Aaron is clearly shut off .. i doubt he could calm his mind for even 10 seconds. how can you make good things like this ?

New Energy constructs and collectives are the way of the future and what new agers are doing is trying to create this by being a part of a collective that is positive. This is actually scientifically proven to work. However thats only one point. This view of only meditating is perhaps a misunderstanding .. watching Aaron in this video i too would suggest he meditate and chill out and then when he was calm go and teach his way of fixing things. But as an angry man telling us that meditation is bad when pretty much every great man and woman that ever existed on this planet meditated ! hmmm ok you get my drift.

N
N

Dear Nanno,

New age seems to be a life style thing. It is still all about 'me'. New age people do seem to get aggressive, precisely because it's all about 'me'.

They seem to use a lot of words to water down experience. They assume because they have heard information, they can just repeat it, as if it were their knowledge.

The internet is full of this disinformation. It is a form of bullying. others have every right to question it.


Tony

[ceetee9]

Has it ever crossed your mind that the New Age Movement may have been designed by the TPTB to render some of the most gifted minds, that would otherwise be active at a time like now, into a state of Apathy and Denial. The greatest ploy ever concocted folks, could very well be under our noses and we haven't even noticed !!!

Is it just me or does the whole New Age Movement not sit right for you guys too? Forget about the ravaging, raping and pillaging of our planet... forget about the chemtrails and poisoning of our water... because come December, 2012 we're going to ascend into 5D... Or the Galactic Federation of Light is going to come down and rescue us.

Could it all just be a ploy to have us meditating 4 hours a day, sending out love and light, meanwhile there's death, destruction and inequality all around us and the state of the planet's increasingly becoming uninhabitable. You've got a community as large as the New Age Movement who could be out there applying them selves and taking action but meanwhile there in the lotus position off in la-la land surrendering there energies to some external source. It's a grand deception if I've ever seen one.. what do you all think ? ? ?

It's definitely crossed my mind and I think you may be absolutely right. I've never quite grasped the concept of a loving, caring omnipotent Creator who gave us free will, ostensibly so we could determine our own destiny, only to discover, through umpteen reincarnations, "The Truth" that "The Key" is to surrender our free will back to the Creator and let him/her/it deal with everything. I mean, it seems rather pointless, IMHO.

[TWINCANS]

New Age was a new wardrobe and a crazy name. It also opened the conciousness doors for a lot of people, who then moved on and expanded past it. All that's left are those attached to their clothes or their income. There's nothing to see here folks so move along. Just like the 60's culture that started out with a similar quantum burst of evolutionary potential, New Age as a movement became corrupted and without heart. There was a similar burst of awakening in Europe in late 1800's/1900's before WW1 that was also corrupted and co-opted by the ptb (hence Fabian Society discussion earlier).

But the need to expand is real. Humans are much more than their body. Being trapped in a mind set of 'let's go punch them bast....out' is also yesterday's place to be - medieval actually.

Yes, there are problems but the biggest one is the fear and anger that is creeping into everything and everyone. You don't have to be in denial to know that taking that on board is tandamount to handing the ptb the keys to the earth for good.

Funny how everyone can agree (pretty much) on the benefits of meditation. So meditation is not sitting around in lala land, we agree. What then does happen when one meditates? One connects to the source of ALL power. One raises one's own auric frequency and becomes a tuning fork wherever you go. Ets and their planetary underlings who work in dark places cannot tolerate higher frequency environments. It hurts them and they run. More can be done at the causal levels than anything we can do in lame 3D reality. Instead of the fist and fear-based convo's of 'the sky is falling, the sky is falling' (which does nothing but let the et's have more fear to feed on) why not plug in, then direct that power to realign the whole kit-and-kaboodle.

That's what we are planning to do to help the Corn Nation. It's not flaky to use ancient Medicine Wheel techniques in power. Anyone else want to be the change we want?

[Tony]

New Age was a new wardrobe and a crazy name. It also opened the conciousness doors for a lot of people, who then moved on and expanded past it. All that's left are those attached to their clothes or their income. There's nothing to see here folks so move along. Just like the 60's culture that started out with a similar quantum burst of evolutionary potential, New Age as a movement became corrupted and without heart. There was a similar burst of awakening in Europe in late 1800's/1900's before WW1 that was also corrupted and co-opted by the ptb (hence Fabian Society discussion earlier).

But the need to expand is real. Humans are much more than their body. Being trapped in a mind set of 'let's go punch them bast....out' is also yesterday's place to be - medieval actually.

Yes, there are problems but the biggest one is the fear and anger that is creeping into everything and everyone. You don't have to be in denial to know that taking that on board is tandamount to handing the ptb the keys to the earth for good.

Funny how everyone can agree (pretty much) on the benefits of meditation. So meditation is not sitting around in lala land, we agree. What then does happen when one meditates? One connects to the source of ALL power. One raises one's own auric frequency and becomes a tuning fork wherever you go. Ets and their planetary underlings who work in dark places cannot tolerate higher frequency environments. It hurts them and they run. More can be done at the causal levels than anything we can do in lame 3D reality. Instead of the fist and fear-based convo's of 'the sky is falling, the sky is falling' (which does nothing but let the et's have more fear to feed on) why not plug in, then direct that power to realign the whole kit-and-kaboodle.

That's what we are planning to do to help the Corn Nation. It's not flaky to use ancient Medicine Wheel techniques in power. Anyone else want to be the change we want?

The question is, change to what? One has to be clear about the direction one is going in, and precisely what one will find there.
I spent thirty five years doing idiot meditation...I don't now!

Tony

[Autumn]

[QUOTE=pie'n'eal;248621I spent thirty five years doing idiot meditation...I don't now!

Tony[/QUOTE]

Do you still meditate? I ask this way as I would not think you to believe all meditation os "idiot meditation". I ask in respect of what ever you may have come to experience as best for you, I'm just curious.

[TWINCANS]

I agree that meditation can become a loop, and that if the person doesn't accompany it with other things (like martial arts or hands on healings or all the other types of bodywork and cleansings) to skim off the scum that rises to the top, they may just get to the point that they're medidtating in the same old stuff even deeper.

But Tony, how do you think you got to be the sage that you are?

[Nanoo Nanoo]

I just watched Aarons video. And now i feel sick .. I get exactly what he is saying and i summise that " Aaron " and the " new agers " that he refers to both got it wrong.

Firstly i agree that anybody that thinks we are going to be raptured is kidding themselves. Secondly it is apparent that Aaron has completely missed the point and is probably sick of New agers telling him the way to chill out. He is obviously angry about whats happening , there is no doubt that its not going well especially in the USA .. But this has been happening for thousands of years .. its what they do .. and now they grow bolder and do grander acts of malady .. thats no news flash.. Romans held shows of people killing each other as entertainment 2000 years ago .... Ouch .. glad i wasnt around back then.

New Agers be responsible for what you say. it makes us good new agers look bad.

Aaron your focus is on all the rubbish thats in the world, and you are completely disconnected from any form of real Intuition. And its no wonder you have such anger .. its palpable in your video. HOWEVER I would be very interested in what your action plan is and methods to fix this, and i say that without sarcasm .. id actually like to see this material. If he is offering solutions then that is a good thing. Where are they ? any links ?

People that think like Aaron let me speak on behalf of People who meditate. Meditation is a form of relaxing and centering the mind so that you can balance your life. Meditation is not the only action someone should take, thinking your way to a good future wont happen without getting off your bum. A Buddhist Monk Meditates , then reads, then exersises then tends to the field , then helps build huts , tends to livestock, then travels and mends peoples wounds.. eats , lives , loves etc etc .. as you can see meditation is only one part of their life.. So please realise that this is only part of a typical New Agers lifestyle generally speaking.. I meditate about 1 to 2 hours a day in the early morning before i do streching , sometimes boxing , martial arts , cycling. Then i study, read and do my lifes work. without Meditation i feel like i have no direction .. it helps me get what i need done, catergorised and planned in my mind. then i get off my bum and make it happen.

I would categorise myself as a New Ager .. but let me dispell some things. i dont believe we will ascend .. We will however be able to learn new ways of being. This is done through meditation. How else are you to learn .. its obvious the PTB wont teach us is it ? Anger is what shuts us off and Aaron is clearly shut off .. i doubt he could calm his mind for even 10 seconds. how can you make good things like this ?

New Energy constructs and collectives are the way of the future and what new agers are doing is trying to create this by being a part of a collective that is positive. This is actually scientifically proven to work. However thats only one point. This view of only meditating is perhaps a misunderstanding .. watching Aaron in this video i too would suggest he meditate and chill out and then when he was calm go and teach his way of fixing things. But as an angry man telling us that meditation is bad when pretty much every great man and woman that ever existed on this planet meditated ! hmmm ok you get my drift.

N
N

Dear Nanno,

New age seems to be a life style thing. It is still all about 'me'. New age people do seem to get aggressive, precisely because it's all about 'me'.

They seem to use a lot of words to water down experience. They assume because they have heard information, they can just repeat it, as if it were their knowledge.

The internet is full of this disinformation. It is a form of bullying. others have every right to question it.


Tony


I have to agree with you Tony in most. however like anything its all down to interpretation. Personally i dont see new age as being about me, actually on the contrary.

Id say people like Aaron are getting the brunt of what he puts out come back to him. He clearly is in need of some direction and new age people are doing what they think is right.

The idea is to let all this info go and get on with it through your own wisdom.

Personally i see questioning things a waste of time. once a person can use intuition , which takes time and meditation IMO , they then can move past continually needing confirmation. I dont want to offend but i see this process as Old Age ..

Caveat : Curiosity about a subject to further learn more Yes. but this tit for tat is Old Age stuff and is exactly the reason why we are in this mess. This drama of US against THEM .. if you want a PTB distraction thats IT ! People like Aaron seem to be fueled by anger and sepparation .. this is the same energy that the very people we want to change are using .. can you see the problem with it >?

In moving forward, a strong movement of leadership from a positive spiritual base in accordance with factual sciences and benevolent intention is where im headed and many people i know too. And i dont need anybody to tell me i can or cannot .. im already a part of it. I have made a choice to go in that direction and am enjoying the shift in my own world and what its showing me.

For those who have not made a commitment to this already will still be in the Old Age.

N
N

[shadowstalker]

Has it ever crossed your mind that the New Age Movement may have been designed by the TPTB to render some of the most gifted minds, that would otherwise be active at a time like now, into a state of Apathy and Denial. The greatest ploy ever concocted folks, could very well be under our noses and we haven't even noticed !!!

Is it just me or does the whole New Age Movement not sit right for you guys too? Forget about the ravaging, raping and pillaging of our planet... forget about the chemtrails and poisoning of our water... because come December, 2012 we're going to ascend into 5D... Or the Galactic Federation of Light is going to come down and rescue us.

Could it all just be a ploy to have us meditating 4 hours a day, sending out love and light, meanwhile there's death, destruction and inequality all around us and the state of the planet's increasingly becoming uninhabitable. You've got a community as large as the New Age Movement who could be out there applying them selves and taking action but meanwhile there in the lotus position off in la-la land surrendering there energies to some external source. It's a grand deception if I've ever seen one.. what do you all think ? ? ?

Below I've posted a video with a brief section that many may find informative. (by all means watch the whole radio show if it tickles ya fancy)

Md93t5NgXrk&start=417

And for anybody who missed Aaron's message last week, I recommend giving that a watch too.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s33j-NIob3E
The ploy if it is real at all, is them trying to make us over think. which is a dangerous process in it self.

There is also a difference between:
Old Age
New age
new agie
and bringing back old wisdom

[DarMar]

That Aaron dude is tottaly right.
I knew all that he said since i was child. And it is hard for me to comprehend earthling mind that is unnable to percept that.
For example vegans wont eat animals cause they are living beigns, and they eat plants but guess what .. they are living beigns too!!
except one slightly differece ... animals are taking air and producind dioxide, and plants are taking dioxide and producing air :) trick question: which one do you eat first?

Im new to this forum but i always wanted to ask why some people writing "Namaste" .. They shure read somewhere or heard that namastee means something ... but does that means that?
Well its easy .. you put it in google and after hiting enter you see what it means, so its gotta be it! right, but not in this world my friends..
So on the end all "light beigns wannabes" started to using that without even knowing its original roots and form.

Yeah i know, they meant the best for all .. but isnt putting kids in school for their own good (even if they learn trash there), isnt paying taxes good (even that is used to enslave them), istnt eating pork good to keep strength ( even if it needs to take life from animal) ... i could continue endlessly on this topic ... but all i have to say on this short matter cause i think Aaron covered it pretty good

FOCUS and stay sharp

[Maia Gabrial]

I can understand where Aaron's rage is coming from. He knows how the cabal works since they've done their number on him since childhood. When has he ever had the chance to sit and meditate and calm his mind? He's an assassin for crying out loud.... He doesn't really understand the benefits of meditation. What he does know is how the cabal is targeting us because they know human nature so well. IMO his anger translates to trepidation for all of us. It's plain to see that he doesn't want the worst to happen to us, but he's not seeing the whole picture. Or that alot can be accomplished when the mind is still.....
Maia

[Fred Steeves]

I've always liked David Ickes line that "the New Age movement is the last dead end before the gold mine". There's so much truth, but of course just enough bulls**t to sweep the unsuspecting off the road to home just like every other crap religion out there.

Bill's latest thread is right on the money, but it can be so easily mistaken for all the fluffy love and light stuff. At the other end of the spectrum it can be easily ridiculed. Both big time mistakes.

This is the time when Luke Skywalker turns off his visor and puts his trust in the force to complete the mission. Once we do that there's no stopping us, and we can travel blindfolded through this last mine field. This is not a time for the faint of heart, but we demanded to be here at this time. So here we are.


SHALL WE?

Cheers,
Fred

[Tony]

[QUOTE=pie'n'eal;248621I spent thirty five years doing idiot meditation...I don't now!

Tony

Do you still meditate? I ask this way as I would not think you to believe all meditation os "idiot meditation". I ask in respect of what ever you may have come to experience as best for you, I'm just curious.[/QUOTE]

Hello Autmn,


Yes, I meditate everyday.

What changed was that I found a teacher that gave the 'pointing out instruction'. That is showing the nature of mind. There are two approaches, one where you start at the beginning of the book, and work your way through until you find out what it is all about. That is called finding the view in the meditation.

The other way is to know the end of the book, then you know why to read it. That is finding the mediation in the view. The good thing about this method is that one is shown the various levels and pitfalls.

Once one has the view, it's easy to see when one has slipped out of it. This is where conduct comes in, it is the continuity of the view.

All the best

Tony

[Rocky_Shorz]

when you spend your life seeking nothing it will be your reward...

[Tony]

I agree that meditation can become a loop, and that if the person doesn't accompany it with other things (like martial arts or hands on healings or all the other types of bodywork and cleansings) to skim off the scum that rises to the top, they may just get to the point that they're medidtating in the same old stuff even deeper.

But Tony, how do you think you got to be the sage that you are?

Ha HA! You are so right!
Leaning is bloody painful, but we still learn.

Your quote about other things is right. It can express the inner qualities.
It is strange that before I came on to this site I spent six months painting demons,
they just pooped into my head!

Al the best
Tony

[9eagle9]

There are lots of new agers that I tolerate, like, love because I see they are in a process and a journey. They strive to overcome their limitations while acknowledging they have them.

The ones who are stuck in constructs, insist they have no limitations, can't open their eyes to higher expressions, and cannot proceed and become evangelical about it....I don't even waste my time. When they become fundamentalist to themselves and others, on one hand babbling everying is possible, but then limiting possiblities to their belief systems.. I wont' even go there.... more(or less) power to them.

[9eagle9]

The arguements about plants and animals is a fixation on the 3d world. Plants and animals unlike people know what their purpose is in a 3d construct; humans don't. Humans havne't a clue as to what they are. You don't have to convince or teach an animal what it is. They know, and they know how to behave accordingly.

An animal has no moral quandry about eating a plant. An animal has no moral quandry about eating another animal. They understand this is who this 3d world was constructed. Animals frequently show compassion but they don't possess human moral values. WE create those daily; animals don't. Neither do plants.

People who don't have a clear idea about rising above density will draw you into mind traps like that and play on your guilt because it assuages their fear, and sense of superiority when basically its just another game within a matrix construct. Do what you want to do carnivore or vegan but don't place any meaning on it good, bad, or indifferent as that is where the trap is. The meaning that is assinged in what you are doing. Don't do it for any reason other than it makes you feeli better and its just feels better for you. Don't be suprised if you move in and out of both.


Honor what you are eating whatever it may be but don't think of it as a sacrifice on their part. Animals don't view death the same as people, neither do plants. Its meaningless in terms of their expression which much higher than ours. Animals dread abuse and pain. Not death. Give an animal a graceful death without pain and torment and they go gracefully and quickly.

You can stop the flesh, but the spirit goes on. You've released them to another form of existence, and allowed them their journey forward. Humans don't understand this in their fixation of death and the moral values they assign to it.

Plants have already regenerated themselves or what humans assign a value of known as reincarnation well before you even think about eating them. They see the bigger picture.

We don't.

huggles






That Aaron dude is tottaly right.
I knew all that he said since i was child. And it is hard for me to comprehend earthling mind that is unnable to percept that.
For example vegans wont eat animals cause they are living beigns, and they eat plants but guess what .. they are living beigns too!!
except one slightly differece ... animals are taking air and producind dioxide, and plants are taking dioxide and producing air :) trick question: which one do you eat first?

Im new to this forum but i always wanted to ask why some people writing "Namaste" .. They shure read somewhere or heard that namastee means something ... but does that means that?
Well its easy .. you put it in google and after hiting enter you see what it means, so its gotta be it! right, but not in this world my friends..
So on the end all "light beigns wannabes" started to using that without even knowing its original roots and form.

Yeah i know, they meant the best for all .. but isnt putting kids in school for their own good (even if they learn trash there), isnt paying taxes good (even that is used to enslave them), istnt eating pork good to keep strength ( even if it needs to take life from animal) ... i could continue endlessly on this topic ... but all i have to say on this short matter cause i think Aaron covered it pretty good

FOCUS and stay sharp

[DarMar]

The arguements about plants and animals is a fixation on the 3d world. Plants and animals unlike people know what their purpose is in a 3d construct; humans don't. Humans havne't a clue as to what they are. You don't have to convince or teach an animal what it is. They know, and they know how to behave accordingly.

3D is a definition which describes nothing except 3 axis of movement (xyz). who and why convinced you that this is a description of world you living in?
Yes im very fixated into txis realm, whats wrong with it, when i came exclusively for it? Can you drive car and wash dishes? if not what makes you think that you can be in so called "3D" and fixating on something which you are not atm.? for exam "4D or 5D" if you can do that wouldnt you live in mutiverse rather than 3D world.


An animal has no moral quandry about eating a plant. An animal has no moral quandry about eating another animal. They understand this is who this 3d world was constructed. Animals frequently show compassion but they don't possess human moral values. WE create those daily; animals don't. Neither do plants.

You know lot about animals and their morales but it is completely different from what i perceived from time beign on earth. Animals are VERY morale beigns in my perception and aware more than most humans could process in minds.
As long as you eat, be prepared that something eat you and that is a realm we live in.
Infact eating != energy ..

I can live without eating for few weeks without loosing energy, focus and strengt. Infact im not even loosing body weight. And i dont practice sungazing :)
Maybe most important part is to give for something you take. I try always to give back what i take. When i forget or fail, nature simply takes it from me .. it is kinda agreement there.


Plants have already regenerated themselves or what humans assign a value of known as reincarnation well before you even think about eating them. They see the bigger picture.

It is brave statement my friend considering fact that youre not a plant :)
And yet you know it all.

Even someone could percept this post as attack on your words, it is not. Im not trying to convince anybody in anything.. simple there is lotta questions i ask on which i dont need answer .. they are just mind wheels that would be fun to start rotate in some direction :)

[Anchor]

Has it ever crossed your mind that the New Age Movement may have been designed by the TPTB to render some of the most gifted minds, that would otherwise be active at a time like now, into a state of Apathy and Denial. The greatest ploy ever concocted folks, could very well be under our noses and we haven't even noticed !!!

Yes of course it is! Twisted from the original intent, like most things.


Is it just me or does the whole New Age Movement not sit right for you guys too? Forget about the ravaging, raping and pillaging of our planet... forget about the chemtrails and poisoning of our water... because come December, 2012 we're going to ascend into 5D... Or the Galactic Federation of Light is going to come down and rescue us.

Yes that is one attack vector. One should be mindful of the context in which one exists, not forget about it. forgetting and detachment are different. One should realism what is happening and be active in attempting to bring about the changes necessary to put that right, but one must also be careful not to let that drag you down. This is not usefully achieved by ignoring or forgetting.


Could it all just be a ploy to have us meditating 4 hours a day, sending out love and light, meanwhile there's death, destruction and inequality all around us and the state of the planet's increasingly becoming uninhabitable. You've got a community as large as the New Age Movement who could be out there applying them selves and taking action but meanwhile there in the lotus position off in la-la land surrendering there energies to some external source. It's a grand deception if I've ever seen one.. what do you all think ? ? ?

Well here is where the important part is. If you are meditating 4hrs a day and you don't know what the consequences of your action are then you are bloody well doing it wrong.

Sending love and light is the most annoying "meme" that I regularly come across. If you really are "sending" love and light blindly, then you are a tool. Whose tool?


Below I've posted a video with a brief section that many may find informative. (by all means watch the whole radio show if it tickles ya fancy)

I cant watch these right now, so my comments may be out of context.

[DeDukshyn]

TPTWB didn't design the new age movement. Come'on, they're lazy bastads in their castles - they don't design anything. They hijack things. They didn't design Scientology, they hijacked it. They didn't start the peace movement of the 60s, they hijacked it and commercialised it. They're not trying to design alternative communities, they're trying to hijack them and commercialise them (AKA Atticus1.org). They may have designed religions though ... naw, they're too smart and lazy for that ****. They hijack and commercialize things - that is all they do really - because that's all they have to do!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQj--Kjn0z8

[DoubleHelix]

This is the new religion. This is the dawning of the age of aquarius.


Maybe the new-agers think this is what's in store ? lol



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weWAZVofn10&feature=related

[TWINCANS]

:music:

I agree that meditation can become a loop, and that if the person doesn't accompany it with other things (like martial arts or hands on healings or all the other types of bodywork and cleansings) to skim off the scum that rises to the top, they may just get to the point that they're medidtating in the same old stuff even deeper.

But Tony, how do you think you got to be the sage that you are?


Ha HA! You are so right!
Learning is bloody painful, but we still learn.

Your quote about other things is right. It can express the inner qualities.
It is strange that before I came on to this site I spent six months painting demons, they just pooped into my head!

Al the best
Tony

Demons, eh? Like the ones that inhabit our dreams far too ofetn and met us at the cottage for a weekend of 'horror show-type' testing? Yeah, they just 'pooped' into your head for 6 months alright. Good letting go! Hope it was a release par excellence. Your pix alone with those piercing eyes told me that you have been doing your inner work. So don't tell the eager newbies at AF that you haven't. After a while you don't need sp many hours, such intensity to turn it all on again.

[sunnyrap]

'divide and conquer' seems to be operating strongly in this thread. ' New Age' is such a broad, nebulous descriptor, it can include many in an undiscriminating net. And in this thread, it is taking on the same function as 'Liberal' on Fox News....

[TWINCANS]

'divide and conquer' seems to be operating strongly in this thread. ' New Age' is such a broad, nebulous descriptor, it can include many in an undiscriminating net. And in this thread, it is taking on the same function as 'Liberal' on Fox News....

With similar undifferentiated vitriole. And the same ability as FOX to destroy something very important.

[mosquito]

Thank's be to the wondrous firewall behind which I sit, I can't see the video, but I'm in agreement with most of the views expressed by everyone here.

I see the new age movement as a stage people need to go through, as I and many others did. What happens is that people know that consensus reality and mainstream religion is horse sh1t, so they find the new age movement, which fo the most part is simple regurgitated Christianity with a bit of Buddhism thrown in (fake Buddhism, not the real thing).

Some people need a hierarchical construct in order to be able to function, that does not necessarily make them bad, there are a lot of good people within the Catholic church and also within the new age movement. Look around Avalon, there are plenty of people who buy into "ascended masters" and galactic councils etc.

None of this is for me, and I imagine that goes for you too, DoubleHelix, hence this thread ! Once you find yourself outside of a construct however, it can get a bit tough, because you have to rely on your own intuition and your guidance, and allow life to be your teacher. As I'm sure many of you will agree, this path is littered with "learning experiences" in the guise of mistakes and cock-ups, which can be very painful. A wonderful piece of advice I once heard was from Martin Prechtel, the Mayan shaman, who sai (more or less) - if you're going to f**k up, f**k up beautifully. So that's what I try to do - live my life with audacity and passion, follow my bliss and when I f**k up, do so gloriously ! ......... and hopefully learn as well !

Meditation doesn't necessarily have to be about sitting on a mountain saying OM, eventually one gets to the stage where anything and everything can be a meditation.

In a nutshell - spirituality grounded in daily life.

[pilotsimone]

Very little going on here but generalizations and mockery. Holy transparency!

[DoubleHelix]

What an excellent post mariposafe, just what I was looking for.

I was never taking a stab at the individuals in the NAM per se, just the form of brainwashing there being exposed to. It's kind of like, and most will agree, that we need all the help we can get from the larger populace out there(a unified effort) if we're to succeed against this evil cabal, so what happens when we go to call on Squadron New-Age for some assistance? well, not a whole lot.. and that's kinda' my point.

I too went down a spiritual path for a couple of years, at the end of it all I came to the realization, that many may provide us with useful tools and information, but that doesn't make them a guru or someone who you should place above yourself. True knowledge comes from within - so the idea of placing your safety and well-being in the hands of an external source, strikes me as erroneous way of looking at things. No-one is going to get us out of this mess except ourselves, the sooner the New-Agers realize this, the sooner we can get down to business - Strength in Numbers

My thoughts on meditation - Meditation can be an invaluable method in pealing back the layers of conditioning we've been exposed to since an early age, it can also be a calming force that aids us through chaotic circumstances. plus healing, increased awareness, etc... you get my drift.

[Teakai]

An animal has no moral quandry about eating a plant. An animal has no moral quandry about eating another animal. They understand this is who this 3d world was constructed. Animals frequently show compassion but they don't possess human moral values. WE create those daily; animals don't. Neither do plants.

People who don't have a clear idea about rising above density will draw you into mind traps like that and play on your guilt because it assuages their fear, and sense of superiority when basically its just another game within a matrix construct. Do what you want to do carnivore or vegan but don't place any meaning on it good, bad, or indifferent as that is where the trap is. The meaning that is assinged in what you are doing. Don't do it for any reason other than it makes you feeli better and its just feels better for you. Don't be suprised if you move in and out of both.


Honor what you are eating whatever it may be but don't think of it as a sacrifice on their part. Animals don't view death the same as people, neither do plants. Its meaningless in terms of their expression which much higher than ours. Animals dread abuse and pain. Not death. Give an animal a graceful death without pain and torment and they go gracefully and quickly.

You can stop the flesh, but the spirit goes on. You've released them to another form of existence, and allowed them their journey forward. Humans don't understand this in their fixation of death and the moral values they assign to it.

Plants have already regenerated themselves or what humans assign a value of known as reincarnation well before you even think about eating them. They see the bigger picture.

We don't.

huggles



I keep thinking about this 9eagle9 and I just want to say, in order to give balance to the meat eating thang, and this is just a general statement to anyone who cares to read it and not to you personally:

Whatever you do in your life - do it consciously. Don't go forth blindly, but think of the actions you take and the effect they have. It is your own conscience you must be answerable to. So be sure you keep an ear open to hear it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X95d1KVlwwo&NR=1
Link:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X95d1KVlwwo&NR=1

[christian]

TPTP try to spin and twist everything that could lead to a change not desired by them.
That's common sense.

[Maia Gabrial]

Hey Pie'n'eal,
Forgive me for catching a misspell in your comment, but it was so funny! LMAO! You said the the demons just "POOPED" in you head. Demons do that. Yeah, they do.... !

[DeDukshyn]

Let's stop lumping up a heap of people as "New Agers" then decide what we want that to be and either criticize or defend.

Some simple distinctions are need, that is all. Divide and conquer happens when people lose the ability to make distinctions (the lack therof AKA "stereotyping","lumping", etc).

I consider myself a "New Ager". Why? because I am very spiritual, not remotely religious, a very free thinker, a truth seeker, and someone who is open to all possibilities. I am open to all possibilities because I understand how the universe works and know that ANYTHING really is possible. It's not magic, occult, brainwashing, etc. It is science! quantum physics, metaphysics, etc. A whole different reality exists than the one they tell is real - I know this to be true. Do I believe in ascension? YES. But again, it's just quantum physics, vibrational and electromagnetic physics that define the process of ascension. It's not just from some guru's head - there is basis in science. Everything in existence vibrates - in fact that is how anything is brought into form from the ethers. Look up 'making shapes by vibration' on google or something like that if you don't understand. All existence is made that way. The vibrations step down from higher levels - they only bring form when slowed to the rate that this universal plane vibrates on (hence the soul from above..etc). Love influences all things with higher vibrations and fear with lower ones. Hence TPTB trying to scare us always, and the spiritual people try to love us - it all goes into influencing the vibrational rate of the planet as whole.

So all you skeptics can go grab your guns and money and try to fight TPTB with those .. you will lose and help them win, because money and guns bring nothing but fear. Meanwhile, I'll be loving my neighbours, spreading a helping hand, teaching that love will change the world - and it will. First individually, then collectively, from the top down, vibrationally. When the environment is of high enough vibration, fear will be scarce and people cannot be controlled by TPTB without fear. It's simple.

Will there be rapture of sorts? Yes, I think so, but maybe not like you think - it will be based on the scientific principles above, and merely be humans becoming what they were meant to be through vibration evolution - not everyone will be participating I'm sure. And I'll bet in the spirit of hijacking everything, TPTB will have their own "rapture program".

Are there new age cults? yes - let's call them that please. Are there new age extremists? yes - let's call them that please. Are there new age "rapture-ists"? Sure - let's call them that. Are there new age spiritualists? realists?

Or we could go on pretending that we can lump all spiritual people as "new agers" and see how that works. Distinctions are simple. Use them.

[Teakai]

Let's stop lumping up a heap of people as "New Agers" then decide what we want that to be and either criticize or defend.

Some simple distinctions are need, that is all. Divide and conquer happens when people lose the ability to make distinctions (the lack therof AKA "stereotyping","lumping", etc).

I consider myself a "New Ager". Why? because I am very spiritual, not remotely religious, a very free thinker, a truth seeker, and someone who is open to all possibilities. I am open to all possibilities because I understand how the universe works and know that ANYTHING really is possible. It's not magic, occult, brainwashing, etc. It is science! quantum physics, metaphysics, etc. A whole different reality exists than the one they tell is real - I know this to be true. Do I believe in ascension? YES. But again, it's just quantum physics, vibrational and electromagnetic physics that define the process of ascension. It's not just from some guru's head - there is basis in science. Everything in existence vibrates - in fact that is how anything is brought into form from the ethers. Look up 'making shapes by vibration' on google or something like that if you don't understand. All existence is made that way. The vibrations step down from higher levels - they only bring form when slowed to the rate that this universal plane vibrates on (hence the soul from above..etc). Love influences all things with higher vibrations and fear with lower ones. Hence TPTB trying to scare us always, and the spiritual people try to love us - it all goes into influencing the vibrational rate of the planet as whole.

So all you skeptics can go grab your guns and money and try to fight TPTB with those .. you will lose and help them win, because money and guns bring nothing but fear. Meanwhile, I'll be loving my neighbours, spreading a helping hand, teaching that love will change the world - and it will. First individually, then collectively, from the top down, vibrationally. When the environment is of high enough vibration, fear will be scarce and people cannot be controlled by TPTB without fear. It's simple.

Will there be rapture of sorts? Yes, I think so, but maybe not like you think - it will be based on the scientific principles above, and merely be humans becoming what they were meant to be through vibration evolution - not everyone will be participating I'm sure. And I'll bet in the spirit of hijacking everything, TPTB will have their own "rapture program".

Are there new age cults? yes - let's call them that please. Are there new age extremists? yes - let's call them that please. Are there new age "rapture-ists"? Sure - let's call them that. Are there new age spiritualists? realists?

Or we could go on pretending that we can lump all spiritual people as "new agers" and see how that works. Distinctions are simple. Use them.

This is a general reply inspired by your post DeDukshyn.
I think one of the most interesting and educational questions we can ask ourselves is why we feel the need to identify and limit ourselves by identification with a mental construct. "I am a christian" "I am a new ager." "I am a muslim."
In truth the stereotyping happens on both sides. Only you have a different idea concerning your own personal interpretation of the label.
Your stereotype of a new ager is in your definition above.

Nothing that is out there will add to who you already are. You may recognise Truth by experiences you have or words you read - but why the need to identify? People can read books on Chrisitnaity and New age stuff, but fundamentally - the Truth is you - not the part of you who requires identification, but the part that is beyond that.

As subtle as it seems, this is why the world is as it is - this defining of ourselves as being something other than we are and not knowing the truth of who we are.
This leaves people susceptible to being duped.

[DeDukshyn]

Let's stop lumping up a heap of people as "New Agers" then decide what we want that to be and either criticize or defend.

Some simple distinctions are need, that is all. Divide and conquer happens when people lose the ability to make distinctions (the lack therof AKA "stereotyping","lumping", etc).

I consider myself a "New Ager". Why? because I am very spiritual, not remotely religious, a very free thinker, a truth seeker, and someone who is open to all possibilities. I am open to all possibilities because I understand how the universe works and know that ANYTHING really is possible. It's not magic, occult, brainwashing, etc. It is science! quantum physics, metaphysics, etc. A whole different reality exists than the one they tell is real - I know this to be true. Do I believe in ascension? YES. But again, it's just quantum physics, vibrational and electromagnetic physics that define the process of ascension. It's not just from some guru's head - there is basis in science. Everything in existence vibrates - in fact that is how anything is brought into form from the ethers. Look up 'making shapes by vibration' on google or something like that if you don't understand. All existence is made that way. The vibrations step down from higher levels - they only bring form when slowed to the rate that this universal plane vibrates on (hence the soul from above..etc). Love influences all things with higher vibrations and fear with lower ones. Hence TPTB trying to scare us always, and the spiritual people try to love us - it all goes into influencing the vibrational rate of the planet as whole.

So all you skeptics can go grab your guns and money and try to fight TPTB with those .. you will lose and help them win, because money and guns bring nothing but fear. Meanwhile, I'll be loving my neighbours, spreading a helping hand, teaching that love will change the world - and it will. First individually, then collectively, from the top down, vibrationally. When the environment is of high enough vibration, fear will be scarce and people cannot be controlled by TPTB without fear. It's simple.

Will there be rapture of sorts? Yes, I think so, but maybe not like you think - it will be based on the scientific principles above, and merely be humans becoming what they were meant to be through vibration evolution - not everyone will be participating I'm sure. And I'll bet in the spirit of hijacking everything, TPTB will have their own "rapture program".

Are there new age cults? yes - let's call them that please. Are there new age extremists? yes - let's call them that please. Are there new age "rapture-ists"? Sure - let's call them that. Are there new age spiritualists? realists?

Or we could go on pretending that we can lump all spiritual people as "new agers" and see how that works. Distinctions are simple. Use them.

This is a general reply inspired by your post DeDukshyn.
I think one of the most interesting and educational questions we can ask ourselves is why we feel the need to identify and limit ourselves by identification with a mental construct. "I am a christian" "I am a new ager." "I am a muslim."

Nothing that is out there will add to who you already are. You may recognise Truth by experiences you have or words you read - but why the need to identify? People can read books on Chrisitnaity and New age stuff, but fundamentally - the Truth is you - not the part of you who requires identification, but the part that is beyond that.

As subtle as it seems,this is the whole problem with humanity - this defining of themselves as being something other than they are and not knowing the truth of who they are.
This leaves them susceptible to being duped.

I have to say I agree with what you are saying here, "Defining" things IS the problem, when we should be using the tool of making "distinctions" between things. When something is "defined" it is set in a place of perspective from which it is judged - a rigid place relating to the point it was defined as being. A distinction makes no such judgment but rather sets it in a place of perspective relative to something else. It is not in a "place" from which it can be judged, but rather seen only as the distinction of itself from other things.

If you take a more course view of the situation, "defining" things is what causes stereotypes, oddly enough. Even look at the word "de - fine" translated = "take the fine out" or "take the details out" or lumping together. Funny how we think it may mean the opposite.

The way to avoid getting caught up in this PTB tactic, is to make distinctions instead of definitions, and don't "define" things. Period. Any word we can apply to anything is only a crude somewhat common symbol that represents some part of the grand illusion anyway so what's the point? ;)

[dddanieljjjamesss]

Something like having a concept of "Energy" can quickly fall into the new age state of mind when it is in the belief.

But if you have DONE it and you KNOW and you can observe and verify, despite being skeptic- that is something else entirely.
Since practicing meditation and chi gong, receiving all of the information I have come across from searching, it is all about energy and its flow. As above so below (nice little rhyme there :p) Now that I know how the universe flows, I can toy with the energy in be-ing... I haven't done much, but everything I have done has been very interesting...

You can see they're two very different things that happen to share the same vocabulary ;) just not everyone is 'IN the know'

... what exactly are we IN anyway?
A space ship, obviously! Ha! Maybe a 'space-time'ship is a better way! :eek:

[DeDukshyn]

... Your stereotype of a new ager is in your definition above ...


Actually no TeaKai, I did something different if you look closely. I didn't put any definition to the term. I said I considered myself one, and gave the reasons why I personally thought that. I left it wide open for everyone to be able to interpret the term as they saw fit and tried to encourage no one into those distinctions. The whole point of my post was to make distinctions, and that is what I did.

I fully understand what you are saying though but I had to point that out.

[Teakai]

I have to say I agree with what you are saying here, "Defining" things IS the problem, when we should be using the tool of making "distinctions" between things. When something is "defined" it is set in a place of perspective from which it is judged - a rigid place relating to the point it was defined as being. A distinction makes no such judgment but rather sets it in a place of perspective relative to something else. It is not in a "place" from which it can be judged, but rather seen only as the distinction of itself from other things.

If you take a more course view of the situation, "defining" things is what causes stereotypes, oddly enough. Even look at the word "de - fine" translated = "take the fine out" or "take the details out" or lumping together. Funny how we think it may mean the opposite.

The way to avoid getting caught up in this PTB tactic, is to make distinctions instead of definitions, and don't "define" things. Period. Any word we can apply to anything is only a crude somewhat common symbol that represents some part of the grand illusion anyway so what's the point? ;)

Well to define is to give definition to something not take the fine out of it. It puts borders around it and says it is this, but that's not what causes stereotyping. People cause the stereotyping due to their own particular mindset.

To say: "I am a mother/father/sister/brother" isn't a mental construct - it's a definition based on something provable. People will stereotype motherhood - because of their own personal idea, but a mother is a mother by pure fact of being someone's mother.

But belief systems are mental constructs that have no substance in which to give them any form of reality. The definition and stereotyping will be different in each personal case - but to say "I am a new ager" has no basis in fact, it is difficult to define something which cannot be measured by anything other than a loose form of idea - it is just a label and a mental construct one is identifying themselves as being which has no basis in reality.

[Teakai]

... Your stereotype of a new ager is in your definition above ...


Actually no TeaKai, I did something different if you look closely. I didn't put any definition to the term. I said I considered myself one, and gave the reasons why I personally thought that. I left it wide open for everyone to be able to interpret the term as they saw fit and tried to encourage no one into those distinctions. The whole point of my post was to make distinctions, and that is what I did.

I fully understand what you are saying though but I had to point that out.

That substantiates the point I'm trying to make, DeDuksyn.
You said you considered yourself a new ager - and then you gave reasons as to why you identified with that.

You have made a distinction as what it means to you, but it is still an immeasurable mental construct. You have put yourself into the 'belief system' box.

Not having a go or anything - this is purely for the sake of discussion.

[DeDukshyn]

... Your stereotype of a new ager is in your definition above ...


Actually no TeaKai, I did something different if you look closely. I didn't put any definition to the term. I said I considered myself one, and gave the reasons why I personally thought that. I left it wide open for everyone to be able to interpret the term as they saw fit and tried to encourage no one into those distinctions. The whole point of my post was to make distinctions, and that is what I did.

I fully understand what you are saying though but I had to point that out.

That substantiates the point I'm trying to make, DeDuksyn.
You said you considered yourself a new ager - and then you gave reasons as to why you identified with that.

You have made a distinction as what it means to you, but it is still an immeasurable mental construct. You have put yourself into the 'belief system' box.

Not having a go or anything - this is purely for the sake of discussion.

What does the word "Consider" mean to you? Does it mean to put into a belief system box? or to give thought to, perhaps even temporarily ... hmmm?

Allow me to make a distinction here ;) ... I think you see where I am going with this. I chose my words well. ;) It is the lack of distinction that clouds communication.

¤=[Post Update]=¤




I have to say I agree with what you are saying here, "Defining" things IS the problem, when we should be using the tool of making "distinctions" between things. When something is "defined" it is set in a place of perspective from which it is judged - a rigid place relating to the point it was defined as being. A distinction makes no such judgment but rather sets it in a place of perspective relative to something else. It is not in a "place" from which it can be judged, but rather seen only as the distinction of itself from other things.

If you take a more course view of the situation, "defining" things is what causes stereotypes, oddly enough. Even look at the word "de - fine" translated = "take the fine out" or "take the details out" or lumping together. Funny how we think it may mean the opposite.

The way to avoid getting caught up in this PTB tactic, is to make distinctions instead of definitions, and don't "define" things. Period. Any word we can apply to anything is only a crude somewhat common symbol that represents some part of the grand illusion anyway so what's the point? ;)

Well to define is to give definition to something not take the fine out of it. It puts borders around it and says it is this, but that's not what causes stereotyping. People cause the stereotyping due to their own particular mindset.

To say: "I am a mother/father/sister/brother" isn't a mental construct - it's a definition based on something provable. People will stereotype motherhood - because of their own personal idea, but a mother is a mother by pure fact of being someone's mother.

But belief systems are mental constructs that have no substance in which to give them any form of reality. The definition and stereotyping will be different in each personal case - but to say "I am a new ager" has no basis in fact, it is difficult to define something which cannot be measured by anything other than a loose form of idea - it is just a label and a mental construct one is identifying themselves as being which has no basis in reality.

"de" is a prefix with a meaning. "Fine" is a discriptor with a meaning. I didn't write the language, merely making distinction of origins. ;) There's a lot to learn from looking closely at the origins of our language. ;)

BTW discussion welcome ;)

[Teakai]

What does the word "Consider" mean to you? Does it mean to put into a belief system box? or to give thought to, perhaps even temporarily ... hmmm?

Allow me to make a distinction here ;) ... I think you see where I am going with this. I chose my words well. ;) It is the lack of distinction that clouds communication.

The word consider to me means to think about something. :) And no - considering something doesn't put one in a belief system box, but saying, "I consider myself a new ager" does. That is - you think about yourself as being a new ager.
(This reminds me of political speak. "When I said the country was doing fine, what I meant was that it's not completely broke just yet.")

But - I may be mistaken - when you said "I consider myself a new ager" what exactly did you mean by that?

:)
Quantum physics exists. One doesn't have to 'be a new ager' to know that. And if people weren't new agers, quantum phsyics will still exist - because it's always exised.

[Teakai]

"de" is a prefix with a meaning. "Fine" is a discriptor with a meaning. I didn't write the language, merely making distinction of origins. ;) There's a lot to learn from looking closely at the origins of our language. ;)

BTW discussion welcome ;)

And gay means happy and joyful :)

[DeDukshyn]

"de" is a prefix with a meaning. "Fine" is a discriptor with a meaning. I didn't write the language, merely making distinction of origins. ;) There's a lot to learn from looking closely at the origins of our language. ;)

BTW discussion welcome ;)

And gay means happy and joyful :)

Yes, which is why it was often used to describe flamboyant men - which happened to be homosexual men, usually, and the term stuck. The root word gay still means "happy". The other definition is slang. I know my language well. ;)

[Teakai]

"de" is a prefix with a meaning. "Fine" is a discriptor with a meaning. I didn't write the language, merely making distinction of origins. ;) There's a lot to learn from looking closely at the origins of our language. ;)

BTW discussion welcome ;)

And gay means happy and joyful :)

Yes, which is why it was often used to describe flamboyant men - which happened to be homosexual men, usually, and the term stuck. The root word gay still means "happy". The other definition is slang. I know my language well. ;)

The point is - how people understand a word. To say 'define' and be understood would be to use the current accepted understanding of the word:
verb (used with object)
1. to state or set forth the (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/the) meaning of (a word, phrase, etc.): They disagreed on how (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/how) to define “liberal.”

2. to explain or identify the nature (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/nature) or essential qualities of; describe: to define judicial functions.

3. to fix or lay down definitely (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/definitely); specify distinctly: to define one's responsibilities.

Even the explanation of the origin of the word doesn't translate to "taking the fine out."
Origin:
1325–75; Middle English def ( f ) inen < Anglo-French, Old French definer to put an end to < Latin dēfīnīre to limit, define, equivalent to dē- de- (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/de-) + fīnīre; see finish (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/finish)

Source: dictionary.com

But we digress :)

[DeDukshyn]

... And no - considering something doesn't put one in a belief system box, but saying, "I consider myself a new ager" does. That is - you think about yourself as being a new ager.
This is a little contradictory, IMO. I used the word "consider" for the exact reason you define it as, then deny me the right to use it that way ... ?

(This reminds me of political speak. "When I said the country was doing fine, what I meant was that it's not completely broke just yet.") ...
Similar, I suppose, in the fact I wasn't giving a rigid definition, but not the same, really.

But - I may be mistaken - when you said "I consider myself a new ager" what exactly did you mean by that?
I don't consider myself anything, but for sake of making my point, the words that best describe me would likely be considered such that others would put me in that definition - this is the stance I wanted to, as it was best served, make my point from.

:)
Quantum physics exists. One doesn't have to 'be a new ager' to know that. And if people weren't new agers, quantum phsyics will still exist - because it's always exised.
My point was that new agers are only interested in love and light and peace (previous qualities chastised on this thread) and it is a better position than fighting and cursing, AND quantum physics backs that point up. ;)


Above in blue ;)

[DeDukshyn]

"de" is a prefix with a meaning. "Fine" is a discriptor with a meaning. I didn't write the language, merely making distinction of origins. ;) There's a lot to learn from looking closely at the origins of our language. ;)

BTW discussion welcome ;)

And gay means happy and joyful :)

Yes, which is why it was often used to describe flamboyant men - which happened to be homosexual men, usually, and the term stuck. The root word gay still means "happy". The other definition is slang. I know my language well. ;)

The point is - how people understand a word. To say 'define' and be understood would be to use the current accepted understanding of the word:
verb (used with object)
1. to state or set forth the (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/the) meaning of (a word, phrase, etc.): They disagreed on how (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/how) to define “liberal.”

2. to explain or identify the nature (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/nature) or essential qualities of; describe: to define judicial functions.

3. to fix or lay down definitely (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/definitely); specify distinctly: to define one's responsibilities.

Even the explanation of the origin of the word doesn't translate to "taking the fine out."
Origin:
1325–75; Middle English def ( f ) inen < Anglo-French, Old French definer to put an end to < Latin dēfīnīre to limit, define, equivalent to dē- de- (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/de-) + fīnīre; see finish (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/finish)

Source: dictionary.com

But we digress :)

The elite wrote the dictionaries and tailored the languages. What were you expecting?

EDIT: excellent discussion. We should word spar more often, we could move through alot of topics and leave a trail for others to think about ... sorry to thread starter for hijacking the thread ... digression noted ;)

[Teakai]

This is a little contradictory, IMO. I used the word "consider" for the exact reason you define it as, then deny me the right to use it that way ... ?

How?
If you consider yourself a new ager. It means you 'think' of yourself as a new ager. You are, of course, not a new ager. You are as human as the next person identifying with a belief system.

My entire point is only about identification with belief systems.



I don't consider myself anything, but for sake of making my point, the words that best describe me would likely be considered such that others would put me in that definition - this is the stance I wanted to, as it was best served, make my point from.

:)

So – you don’t consider yourself a new ager – you just said you did to make a point?
Yet you felt personally effected enough to defend the new age belief system?


My point was that new agers are only interested in love and light and peace (previous qualities chastised on this thread) and it is a better position than fighting and cursing, AND quantum physics backs that point up. ;)


That’s your stereotype of new agers :). I know at least one (by their own labelling) who are in it to get rich and be spiritual all at the same time. Not that they 'say' they're in it to get rich.

Though Aaron did swear a lot – I don’t think he advocated anyone picking up their guns and being violent. He did say action was required. However, his entire response was in regard to the emails he was receiving. That is, he was relating directly to his own experience. I won’t say they’re all new agers, because I haven’t got a clue if they are or not as Love and Light, like Truth aren’t restricted to any particular belief system.

[Teakai]

The elite wrote the dictionaries and tailored the languages. What were you expecting?

EDIT: excellent discussion. We should word spar more often, we could move through alot of topics and leave a trail for others to think about ... sorry to thread starter for hijacking the thread ... digression noted ;)

But it's still what we have to work with.
Unless everyone agrees to go back and speak Latin :)

[DeDukshyn]

This is a little contradictory, IMO. I used the word "consider" for the exact reason you define it as, then deny me the right to use it that way ... ?

How?
If you consider yourself a new ager. It means you 'think' of yourself as a new ager. You are, of course, not a new ager. You are as human as the next person identifying with a belief system.

My entire point is only about identification with belief systems.



I don't consider myself anything, but for sake of making my point, the words that best describe me would likely be considered such that others would put me in that definition - this is the stance I wanted to, as it was best served, make my point from.

:)

So – you don’t consider yourself a new ager – you just said you did to make a point?
Yet you felt personally effected enough to defend the new age belief system?


My point was that new agers are only interested in love and light and peace (previous qualities chastised on this thread) and it is a better position than fighting and cursing, AND quantum physics backs that point up. ;)


That’s your stereotype of new agers :). I know at least one (by their own labelling) who are in it to get rich and be spiritual all at the same time. Not that they 'say' they're in it to get rich.

Though Aaron did swear a lot – I don’t think he advocated anyone picking up their guns and being violent. He did say action was required. However, his entire response was in regard to the emails he was receiving. That is, he was relating directly to his own experience. I won’t say they’re all new agers, because I haven’t got a clue if they are or not as Love and Light, like Truth aren’t restricted to any particular belief system.

What an odd post ... as I read it, it's like a conversation in real-time. You can read my quote then yours and it's like a conversation that goes back in forth where I actually answer your response in my second quote to your first.

As to your last part I was generalizing and giving a response not necessarily based on any posts.
My mainpoint is that people believe what they believe for whatever reasons they believe them - since no one knows those reasons and in the grand scheme they don't matter anyway, mass judgements of others belief systems is a waste of energy. We've had enough of that with the religions in this world. Peace ;)

[Teakai]

What an odd post ... as I read it, it's like a conversation in real-time. You can read my quote then yours and it's like a conversation that goes back in forth where I actually answer your response in my second quote to your first.

As to your last part I was generalizing and giving a response not necessarily based on any posts.
My mainpoint is that people believe what they believe for whatever reasons they believe them - since no one knows those reasons and in the grand scheme they don't matter anyway, mass judgements of others belief systems is a waste of energy. We've had enough of that with the religions in this world. Peace ;)

:) thanks for the brain work-out, DeDukshyn. It was fun.

Nothing like a good bit of thinking and discussing to loosen up the grey matter.

[Fred Steeves]

I consider myself a "New Ager". Why? because I am very spiritual, not remotely religious, a very free thinker, a truth seeker, and someone who is open to all possibilities. I am open to all possibilities because I understand how the universe works and know that ANYTHING really is possible. It's not magic, occult, brainwashing, etc. It is science! quantum physics, metaphysics, etc. A whole different reality exists than the one they tell is real - I know this to be true. Do I believe in ascension? YES. But again, it's just quantum physics, vibrational and electromagnetic physics that define the process of ascension. It's not just from some guru's head - there is basis in science.


This doesn't sound anywhere near what I would remotely refer to a New Agey. The reason I wound up at Avalon in the first place is because the last forum I was on became infested with New Age garbage. What you describe is nothing like what I left behind. Are you sure you don't want to reconsider what you refer to yourself as?


Cheers,
Fred

[Fred Steeves]

Oops, upon further review, me should have read to the end of the thread before making my little morning observation.

This has been thoroughly dissected, and as graciously as possible Fred bows out for other pastures.


Cheers,
Fred

[Humble Janitor]

I might have developed a stronger "bull**** detector" because I just don't buy that 5D nonsense anymore.

Why should we wait around for this when we can change the world NOW?

[DeDukshyn]

I consider myself a "New Ager". Why? because I am very spiritual, not remotely religious, a very free thinker, a truth seeker, and someone who is open to all possibilities. I am open to all possibilities because I understand how the universe works and know that ANYTHING really is possible. It's not magic, occult, brainwashing, etc. It is science! quantum physics, metaphysics, etc. A whole different reality exists than the one they tell is real - I know this to be true. Do I believe in ascension? YES. But again, it's just quantum physics, vibrational and electromagnetic physics that define the process of ascension. It's not just from some guru's head - there is basis in science.


This doesn't sound anywhere near what I would remotely refer to a New Agey. The reason I wound up at Avalon in the first place is because the last forum I was on became infested with New Age garbage. What you describe is nothing like what I left behind. Are you sure you don't want to reconsider what you refer to yourself as?


Cheers,
Fred

Not necessarily -- I want the stereotype to go away. I think that is a better solution.

[sunnyrap]

Where my head is at the moment is demanding to see spirituality in daily ACTION...

[Tony]

Where my head is at the moment is demanding to see spirituality in daily ACTION...

Hello Sunrap,
You are talking about meditation in action. Once you find that still open centre, everything you then do is for the benefit of others.
You maybe surprised how creative that is. To break out of this vicious cycle of existence of the same old things keep happening,
caring for others is a powerful motivation and force. Another way of looking at it is...love in action!

All the best
Tony

[sunnyrap]

Exactly what I was referring to, Tony.

You are certainly correct that you can do great good by simple contact-influence with others as a shining beacon of light supported by helpful daily meditation practices--but I am also pointing to giving one's selfless attention to the loving support of either one or an army of others with your direct well-considered actions.

Real love that sponsors lifting up of another's spirit, intelligence, life is the single most powerful 'drug' that there is. Mother Teresa didn't see herself as self-sacrificing: she was ADDICTED to giving the love and support she did. Ethical practices are the most survival-supporting practices.

[Nanoo Nanoo]

Is there a general misconception about people wielding the term " Love and Light " ? I think so .. it has been painted as weak and passive. But id like to state what we new agers see and feel when we state this ...

Love and Light is the representation of our Universe' most abundant and formidable power. Love and Light can over come anything in its path. Unlike hate or retribution or war .. these things have a shelf life and fall like a pellet against a stone. So when we truly understand Love ... and then understand the carrier of Light we see that the New Ager ( perhaps unbeknowenst to themselves ) is dealing in an Absolute Power.

Ask your self a question .. with over 2000 years of War being the main objective why is it that its not made progress ? because hate eats is self, with no end or satisfaction.

Definitions are very important to understanding each other. A Man or Woman that KNOWS Love and Light is more powerful than any army. A man or woman that carries Love in their heart has more power in their small toe than an army of a million. Do not think in terms of physical .. force is just a physical thing. Love is something you cannot touch but you can feel it .. so how can you ever destroy it ?

Only in the mind of the angry man can Love die and that be a lonely existence. once that is gone you rely on physical force to bring back what ? Love .. so why go on a round about ?

What is my point ? good question lol

Definition ... i guess ...


N
N

[Maia Gabrial]

George Kavassilas says that the New Age movement was started by the Draconians....

[DeDukshyn]

I might have developed a stronger "bull**** detector" because I just don't buy that 5D nonsense anymore.

Why should we wait around for this when we can change the world NOW?

Good point, of course. But on a side topic, do you know or understand music theory? (not a real question necessarily directed at you - I'm on a soapbox, dramaticizing my post for allure ;)); or the mathematical principles behind it? Just to make one think, consider that there are notes ABCDEFG. But wait, there's more than one A. In fact there's multitude. Each higher one, identical in tone (look up all definitions of that word), but each in a completely different vibrational context to the next. This phenomenon exists throughout the multiverse. When people talk of "Ascension" they are often describing moving from one vibrational context to the next, exactly like A exists as 440 hertz, but also as 880 hertz - they have different qualities, but both are still the note "A". Our planet also exists as a "note" and falls into the same phenomenon - everything does.

So while I am not defending anyone's stories or predictions about "ascension" and what that means to them or how it will happen (some them are pretty elaborate lol), above are some mathematical principles of vibrational physics that may get you thinking about what the "new agers" seem to be referring to as "densities" and the whole 3D 4D 5D thingy-ma-bobber.

Ten years ago "New ager" had a different meaning altogether. It meant something positive. I wonder who changed the stereotype to mean something negative and kept it going .. oh wait, we all did I guess.

[Teakai]

Not necessarily -- I want the stereotype to go away. I think that is a better solution.

So - when everybody sees it as you do - it'll all be good?

:)

[pilotsimone]

I might have developed a stronger "bull**** detector" because I just don't buy that 5D nonsense anymore.

Why should we wait around for this when we can change the world NOW?

Are you saying you don't think there are higher dimensions that we can access?

[DeDukshyn]

Not necessarily -- I want the stereotype to go away. I think that is a better solution.

So - when everybody sees it as you do - it'll all be good?

:)

Exactly - now you're getting it TeaKai!! But seriously, if we loosen our judgements on stereotypes and describe things as opposed to "lump" things under an umbrella - any type of umbrella, it serves to facilitate better communication, and get the point across more quickly and effectively. This is what I meant and I stand by it proudly ;)

¤=[Post Update]=¤



I might have developed a stronger "bull**** detector" because I just don't buy that 5D nonsense anymore.

Why should we wait around for this when we can change the world NOW?

Are you saying you don't think there are higher dimensions that we can access?

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?23359-The-New-Age-Movement-TPTB-s-Silent-Killer&p=249899&viewfull=1#post249899

We must have been thinking the same thing at the same time. ;) Great minds think alike as they say -- hehe

[Teakai]

Exactly - now you're getting it TeaKai!! But seriously, if we loosen our judgements on stereotypes and describe things as opposed to "lump" things under an umbrella - any type of umbrella, it serves to facilitate better communication, and get the point across more quickly and effectively. This is what I meant and I stand by it proudly ;)[COLOR="red"]


To hold onto an idea of something - and expect/hope/wish for others to comply with it - well, you'd get better results asking santa to hand deliver you a dodo bird.

It's a nice fantasy - but that's all it is.

It seems to me that it would make for better vibration all round to just let go of the idealism and the way we would want other people to be - and just be at peace within ourselves - it's the only thing we really do have any kind of control over.

Otherwise - we are allowing our peace of mind to be dependent on the behaviour/attitudes of others.

[DeDukshyn]

Exactly - now you're getting it TeaKai!! But seriously, if we loosen our judgements on stereotypes and describe things as opposed to "lump" things under an umbrella - any type of umbrella, it serves to facilitate better communication, and get the point across more quickly and effectively. This is what I meant and I stand by it proudly ;)[COLOR="red"]


To hold onto an idea of something - and expect/hope/wish for others to comply with it - well, you'd get better results asking santa to hand deliver you a dodo bird.

It's a nice fantasy - but that's all it is.

It seems to me that it would make for better vibration all round to just let go of the idealism and the way we would want other people to be - and just be at peace within ourselves - it's the only thing we really do have any kind of control over.

Otherwise - we are allowing our peace of mind to be dependent on the behaviour/attitudes of others.

You make it sound like it's hard not to lump things into stereotypes ... "Dear Santa, please bring Teakai the ability to .... ;)" LOL J/K

I don't wish anyone to do anything or change anyone, but I may give examples of similar situations with different perspectives so as to bring more discernment and distinctions to the topic at hand, to give them an alternate way of looking at things. There is no "truth", but the more perspectives you can bring on a topic gives everyone a far better view of the playing field - this was my only goal, and if you go back and look, it is exactly all I did, I think I succeded.

[Teakai]

You make it sound like it's hard not to lump things into stereotypes ... "Dear Santa, please bring Teakai the ability to .... ;)" LOL J/K

I don't wish anyone to do anything or change anyone, but I may give examples of similar situations with different perspectives so as to bring more discernment and distinctions to the topic at hand, to give them an alternate way of looking at things. There is no "truth", but the more perspectives you can bring on a topic gives everyone a far better view of the playing field - this was my only goal, and if you go back and look, it is exactly all I did, I think I succeded.

DeDukshyn - I'm only going by what you write. I assume it to be honest unless you come out and say that you are only saying it to make a point - which is a bit pointless, for unless you mean something there is going to be little conviction.
If you don't really mean what you are saying - and are only saying such things for the purpose of awakening discernment - then just say so and I'll leave it all alone.

You said you want the stereotype to go away. Why do you care unless you have some kind of attachment to the label/idea?

You want people to change their behaviour (no stereotyping) and yet you are existing in a mind state which passes judgment on such things yourself.

It is all the same thing, just with a line drawn down the middle. Your side/other side. Same room.

[DeDukshyn]

You make it sound like it's hard not to lump things into stereotypes ... "Dear Santa, please bring Teakai the ability to .... ;)" LOL J/K

I don't wish anyone to do anything or change anyone, but I may give examples of similar situations with different perspectives so as to bring more discernment and distinctions to the topic at hand, to give them an alternate way of looking at things. There is no "truth", but the more perspectives you can bring on a topic gives everyone a far better view of the playing field - this was my only goal, and if you go back and look, it is exactly all I did, I think I succeded.

DeDukshyn - I'm only going by what you write. I assume it to be honest unless you come out and say that you are only saying it to make a point - which is a bit pointless, for unless you mean something there is going to be little conviction.
If you don't really mean what you are saying - and are only saying such things for the purpose of awakening discernment - then just say so and I'll leave it all alone.

You said you want the stereotype to go away. Why do you care unless you have some kind of attachment to the label/idea?

You want people to change their behaviour (no stereotyping) and yet you are existing in a mind state which passes judgment on such things yourself.

It is all the same thing, just with a line drawn down the middle. Your side/other side. Same room.

You are actively trying to not understand me. You win.

Let me give an example, you wrote: "I'm only going by what you write" and "You want people to change their behaviour" contradict when you look at what I said, because this is what I actually wrote "I don't wish anyone to do anything or change anyone" and I don't. I did say that I want stereotyping to go away but I implicated no one or group as responsible in that post, nor expressed a desire to change people.

So you are taking everything I write out of context in order to drive your main motivation - to be "right", the demise of a good debate that has lost its purpose.


This debate has lost it's usefulness completely due to the issues I point out above. The word spar was fun, we'll have to do it again sometime, but with a fresh start and a fresh topic. This has turned into a debate about semantics and out of context rationalizations, which has no real purpose. Let's let this thread get back to original topic shall we? :) No dis intended.

POST UPDATE: one more ...
Teakai said: "You said you want the stereotype to go away. Why do you care unless you have some kind of attachment to the label/idea?"

Stereotypes are detrimental to accurate communication. Period. As a person who understands that 90% of conflict is caused by innaccurate communication, any improvement would be desireable to humanity as a whole ... Do you want them to stay (stereotypes)? Just a rhetorical question - don't answer. of course you have the same desires as we all do.

[Teakai]

You are actively trying to not understand me. You win.

Let me give an example, you wrote: "I'm only going by what you write" and "You want people to change their behaviour" contradict when you look at what I said, because this is what I actually wrote "I don't wish anyone to do anything or change anyone" and I don't. I did say that I want stereotyping to go away but I implicated no one or group as responsible in that post, nor expressed a desire to change people.

So you are taking everything I write out of context in order to drive your main motivation - to be "right", the demise of a good debate that has lost its purpose.


This debate has lost it's usefulness completely due to the issues I point out above. The word spar was fun, we'll have to do it again sometime, but with a fresh start and a fresh topic. This has turned into a debate about semantics and out of context rationalizations, which has no real purpose. Let's let this thread get back to original topic shall we? :) No dis intended.

I'm not actively trying to misunderstand you, DeDukshyn. I thought you said you were careful about what you typed – and so when you say you want, I take it to mean you have given this thought and this is what you want.
By you wanting something – you have a personal investment in the outcome.
You also said that you consider yourself ‘new age’.
That you then go and say that you don't want to change anyone is contradictory. You want something to occur - and so it follows that you must want some form of change to bring that about - how else will it change unless people change their behaviour?

One doesn’t have to implicate a group – but if someone chooses to put on a cloak (the cloak of belief systems no matter what they are) then they are deliberately laying themselves open to judgment and stereotyping. They are saying “this is me” and going out in public. And other people are saying, “well, man, that coat be one ogly coat.” And other people saying, “that’s one cool coat, can I wear it, too.” Only some of these people drool and eat boogers and get stains on the coat and make the coat look bad.

It’s just the way people are at a particular place in their heads. Just wearing different coats in their own ways.

The ptb lo-o-o-o-o-ve it when we’re all b*tchin’ at each other about these things that keep us down there in the low brain place.
And our wearing the cloak keeps us there – and us stereotyping those wearing the cloak – keep us there. This is your major point – only wearing the coat is part of the same game. Your saying – well, this is OK (wearing the coat)– but this isn’t -(jduging/stereotyping) the coat.

The thing that removes us from their (the ptb) clutches is to get beyond the attachment to any of that stuff.
There – it’s back on topic (but did it ever leave?) :)

P.S – I don’t give a rats about being right. But my inner righteousness meter insists I say my piece inspired by what you are writing.

[Teakai]

POST UPDATE: one more ...
Teakai said: "You said you want the stereotype to go away. Why do you care unless you have some kind of attachment to the label/idea?"

Stereotypes are detrimental to accurate communication. Period. As a person who understands that 90% of conflict is caused by innaccurate communication, any improvement would be desireable to humanity as a whole ... Do you want them to stay (stereotypes)? Just a rhetorical question - don't answer. of course you have the same desires as we all do.

I covered part of this in the post above.

I view it like this.

Imagine a glass of carbonated drink. Down in that glass there are lots of bubbles - and at the top there are bubbles.

Belief systems and sterotyping bubbles are heavy and weighed down (it;s the cloaks, you see :) ) and they are at the bottom of the glass - if one drops the weight, they will rise to the top out of the murk of the soft drink where the view is less obscured.

[DeDukshyn]

Last post here on this ...





You are actively trying to not understand me. You win.

Let me give an example, you wrote: "I'm only going by what you write" and "You want people to change their behaviour" contradict when you look at what I said, because this is what I actually wrote "I don't wish anyone to do anything or change anyone" and I don't. I did say that I want stereotyping to go away but I implicated no one or group as responsible in that post, nor expressed a desire to change people.

So you are taking everything I write out of context in order to drive your main motivation - to be "right", the demise of a good debate that has lost its purpose.


This debate has lost it's usefulness completely due to the issues I point out above. The word spar was fun, we'll have to do it again sometime, but with a fresh start and a fresh topic. This has turned into a debate about semantics and out of context rationalizations, which has no real purpose. Let's let this thread get back to original topic shall we? :) No dis intended.

I'm not actively trying to misunderstand you, DeDukshyn. I thought you said you were careful about what you typed I never said that, find me the quote ... – and so when you say you want, I take it to mean you have given this thought and this is what you want. Did you take you might not be right?
By you wanting something – you have a personal investment in the outcome. Does "want" mean that? No.
You also said that you consider yourself ‘new age’. What I consider myself is not "stereotyping" (as you previously tried to make the connection) nor anyones business for judgement, thanks.
That you then go and say that you don't want to change anyone is contradictory. Sorry what? There is no contradiction. You want something to occur - and so it follows that you must want some form of change to bring that about - how else will it change unless people change their behaviour? It won't, and I can't change people, but I may be a catalyst for them to change themselves.

One doesn’t have to implicate a group – but if someone chooses to put on a cloak (the cloak of belief systems no matter what they are) then they are deliberately laying themselves open to judgment and stereotyping. They are saying “this is me” and going out in public. And other people are saying, “well, man, that coat be one ogly coat.” And other people saying, “that’s one cool coat, can I wear it, too.” Only some of these people drool and eat boogers and get stains on the coat and make the coat look bad. We all have coats, we all have belief systems, while we have them, coats that influence positive energy are better than ones that don't.

It’s just the way people are at a particular place in their heads. Just wearing different coats in their own ways. See above

The ptb lo-o-o-o-o-ve it when we’re all b*tchin’ at each other about these things that keep us down there in the low brain place. Hence my last post in attempt to stop this ...
And our wearing the cloak keeps us there – and us stereotyping those wearing the cloak – keep us there. This is your major point – only wearing the coat is part of the same game. Your saying – well, this is OK (wearing the coat)– but this isn’t -(jduging/stereotyping) the coat.

The thing that removes us from their (the ptb) clutches is to get beyond the attachment to any of that stuff. If you can make the necessary distinctions, you start to be released from this spell -- my goal here.
There – it’s back on topic (but did it ever leave?) :)

P.S – I don’t give a rats about being right. But my inner righteousness meter insists I say my piece inspired by what you are writing.
Your piece is good but using me as an example to support your piece didn't work out too well - your rationalizations were based on out of context bits as I pointed out in my previous posts.

But in all that, I know what you are saying, I'm trying to tell you the solution isn't impossible or even hard, if we TRY to understand each other, instead of pointing out minor differences in semantics, and taking things out of context on which to base our rationalizations.

[DeDukshyn]

POST UPDATE: one more ...
Teakai said: "You said you want the stereotype to go away. Why do you care unless you have some kind of attachment to the label/idea?"

Stereotypes are detrimental to accurate communication. Period. As a person who understands that 90% of conflict is caused by innaccurate communication, any improvement would be desireable to humanity as a whole ... Do you want them to stay (stereotypes)? Just a rhetorical question - don't answer. of course you have the same desires as we all do.

I covered part of this in the post above.

I view it like this.

Imagine a glass of carbonated drink. Down in that glass there are lots of bubbles - and at the top there are bubbles.

Belief systems and sterotyping bubbles are heavy and weighed down (it;s the cloaks, you see :) ) and they are at the bottom of the glass - if one drops the weight, they will rise to the top out of the murk of the soft drink where the view is less obscured.

A belief system and a stereotype are NOT the same, you'd do well to learn the difference.
Ooops, I violated my own integrity (made another post ...). as an INTJ, I have to point that out before someone else does ... ;)

[Teakai]

A belief system and a stereotype are NOT the same, you'd do well to learn the difference.
Ooops, I violated my own integrity (made another post ...). as an INTJ, I have to point that out before someone else does ... ;)

I realise they're not the same - but they exist in the mind state by which we are controlled.

These are the quotes which gave me the idea that you thought about what you wrote and were deliberate and careful with your words.
Either you are or you aren't?


Yes, which is why it was often used to describe flamboyant men - which happened to be homosexual men, usually, and the term stuck. The root word gay still means "happy". The other definition is slang. I know my language well.



What does the word "Consider" mean to you? Does it mean to put into a belief system box? or to give thought to, perhaps even temporarily ... hmmm?

Allow me to make a distinction here ;) ... I think you see where I am going with this. I chose my words well. ;) It is the lack of distinction that clouds communication.[COLOR="red"]

¤=[Post Update]=¤



And yes - to want something is to have a desire. A mental attachment to a thing or a situation or an outcome. That you feel that what you say may bring that about indicates that you are attaching something to it.

By what you write you seem to want the people of the world to be at a head place where they no longer stereotype each other - and yet be in a place where they still identify with belief systems.
Not possible.
Both are the territory of the ego/reptilian brain.

[DeDukshyn]

A belief system and a stereotype are NOT the same, you'd do well to learn the difference.
Ooops, I violated my own integrity (made another post ...). as an INTJ, I have to point that out before someone else does ... ;)

I realise they're not the same - but they exist in the mind state by which we are controlled.

These are the quotes which gave me the idea that you thought about what you wrote and were deliberate and careful with your words.
Either you are or you aren't?


Yes, which is why it was often used to describe flamboyant men - which happened to be homosexual men, usually, and the term stuck. The root word gay still means "happy". The other definition is slang. I know my language well.



What does the word "Consider" mean to you? Does it mean to put into a belief system box? or to give thought to, perhaps even temporarily ... hmmm?

Allow me to make a distinction here ;) ... I think you see where I am going with this. I chose my words well. Notice I used the word CHOSE - I was referring to a specific phrase, no? Quit changing my posts to fit your need to be right ... ;) It is the lack of distinction that clouds communication.[COLOR="red"]

¤=[Post Update]=¤



And yes - to want something is to have a desire. A mental attachment to a thing or a situation or an outcome. That you feel that what you say may bring that about indicates that you are attaching something to it.

By what you write you seem to want the people of the world to be at a head place where they no longer stereotype each other - and yet be in a place where they still identify with belief systems.
Not possible.
Both are the territory of the ego/reptilian brain.

A belief system and a stereotype are NOT the same, you'd do well to learn the difference.
You applied all your definition of terms to everything I said without getting clarification from me - communication fail. My point. It's easier than you think, when we try a little harder than that.

POST UPDATE! I added some blue above just now ...

[Teakai]

A belief system and a stereotype are NOT the same, you'd do well to learn the difference.

I got that - I covered it in the above post.

"I realise they're not the same - but they exist in the mind state by which we are controlled."'

[NeverMind]

Has it ever crossed your mind that the New Age Movement may have been designed by the TPTB to render some of the most gifted minds, that would otherwise be active at a time like now, into a state of Apathy and Denial. The greatest ploy ever concocted folks, could very well be under our noses and we haven't even noticed !!!

Is it just me or does the whole New Age Movement not sit right for you guys too? Forget about the ravaging, raping and pillaging of our planet... forget about the chemtrails and poisoning of our water... because come December, 2012 we're going to ascend into 5D... Or the Galactic Federation of Light is going to come down and rescue us.

Could it all just be a ploy to have us meditating 4 hours a day, sending out love and light, meanwhile there's death, destruction and inequality all around us and the state of the planet's increasingly becoming uninhabitable. You've got a community as large as the New Age Movement who could be out there applying them selves and taking action but meanwhile there in the lotus position off in la-la land surrendering there energies to some external source. It's a grand deception if I've ever seen one.. what do you all think ? ? ?


I don't think so.
(And for the record, let me state that I dislike the term "New Age", I dislike it with a passion, as I dislike anything that sounds "airy fairy", for that very reason. :) I suppose it would be fair to say it does not sit with me for the very same reason that it does not sit well with you. Only, I find nothing sinister behind it.)

I don't think said "movement" really is a movement , properly speaking. It is more of a catch-all term that encompasses all sorts of "spiritual" flexibility and, yes, in many cases, a sort of drifting, lax philosophy. However, even among the more "drifting" adherents to this non-ideology of openness I think non-doers such as described in your post - sending "love and light" for four hours a day, doing little else? :) - would be rare to find; and I think it's safe to assume such people would be of little danger to any establishment even if they were more active.

Also, I think it would be remarkably ineffective as a means to catch the most gifted of them all. Normally I would not presume to speak on behalf of others, but I would assume that truly gifted people find ways of expression that suit them - not the other way around. In other words, they adhere to something if and when it "clicks", based on their own previous path of development. If something "clicks", it is because they recognise in it the expression of a truth that they had found - or think they have found - independently.

I am rambling. I am sorry. (It's very late here.)
The main thing I wanted to say was this: some of the essential tenets of the self-proclaimed "New Age" movement are the basic tenets of all major religions, notably Christianity. And in my own personal experience, gained from purely personal insight, those tenets do express the underlying reality of the world.

"Love" is more than a word - it is a very real (para)physical force, the force (the Eros) that holds the Universe in a state of Being, as opposed to Non-Being. Dwelling on it does bring very tangible results into being. The same is true of Light; and of the Word.

Remember: like does breed like.
Anger and violence breed anger and violence. Pessimism breeds pessimism.
By the same token, happiness and gratitude do breed an environment that is propitious to their expansion. Love does breed love; light does breed light.
The trick is to dwell on them - IN them - without denying the existence of the seemingly dominant reality of pain and suffering.

But denying their very real, all-powerful (para)physical force would be the ultimate defeat of everything good - or, if you will, the ultimate victory of any powers there might be that oppose Good.


Love and light to y'all. :-)

[Teakai]

A belief system and a stereotype are NOT the same, you'd do well to learn the difference.
You applied all your definition of terms to everything I said without getting clarification from me - communication fail. My point. It's easier than you think, when we try a little harder than that.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=DeDukshyn;249967]
Allow me to make a distinction here ;) ... I think you see where I am going with this. I chose my words well. Notice I used the word CHOSE - I was referring to a specific phrase, no? Quit changing my posts to fit your need to be right ... ;) It is the lack of distinction that clouds communication.[COLOR="red"]


What???

What does that mean? I have to read what you write - and then I have to go back and ask you what parts you meant and what you meant by them?

Are you saying you only chose your words well on the one specific occasion in regard to a particular post and I have only concluded that the rest of your posts have been carefully prepared and thought out?

My mistake if so.

[DeDukshyn]

A belief system and a stereotype are NOT the same, you'd do well to learn the difference.
You applied all your definition of terms to everything I said without getting clarification from me - communication fail. My point. It's easier than you think, when we try a little harder than that.

What???

What does that mean? I have to read what you write - and then I have to go back and ask you what parts you meant and what you meant by them? Or you can keep making assumptions about what you think I mean, despite my protests, and twist my words into alternate meanings to help make your point -- your choice, really.

Are you saying you only chose your words well on the one specific ocassion in regard to a particular post and I have only concluded that the rest of your posts have been carefully prepared and thought out? Nope, you said I said that I choose my words carefully - what I did was refer to a post where I indicated I HAD chose my words well ... as cited in you quote, I previously described a post I made and you made something different out of what I said, just pointing that out ..

My mistake if so.

Yes your mistake I was merely pointing out your error of assumption on which you based a specific rationalization, therefore nullifying your very point. I can do this all day if you keep giving me ammo ... ;)


....................................

[DeDukshyn]

I'm editing posts late here ... sry, I'm not trying to mess up the debate. Although I still think it's not being very useful ...

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Hmmm ... this is getting me thinking ... Avalon should have a sort of "debate" sub forum where two or a few people can start a thread with a "proper" debate ..... with specific topics and guidelines ... sounds interesting to me ...

[Teakai]

Yes your mistake I was merely pointing out your error of assumption on which you based a specific rationalization, therefore nullifying your very point. I can do this all day if you keep giving me ammo ... ;)


....................................[/QUOTE]

OK.
So, just to be perfectly clear -

Is it the case, then, that you have chosen your words carefully and with thought only on one specific occasion?


and do you think that it's OK for people to identify with a belief system, but it's not Ok for people to stereotype a belief system?

[DeDukshyn]

Yes your mistake I was merely pointing out your error of assumption on which you based a specific rationalization, therefore nullifying your very point. I can do this all day if you keep giving me ammo ...




OK.
So, just to be perfectly clear -

Is it the case, then, that you have chosen your words carefully and with thought only on one specific occasion? Thats a silly assumption, what point does it serve? to distract from this perhaps? ... "I was merely pointing out your error of assumption on which you based a specific rationalization, therefore nullifying your very point. I can do this all day if you keep giving me ammo .." ;)


and do you think that it's OK for people to identify with a belief system, but it's not Ok for people to stereotype a belief system?

They are not the same. Not stereotyping isn't that hard at all, just use distinctions and accurate communications. Not having a belief system is REALLY hard. Softening one isn't too hard. But without a belief system you wouldn't even know a language (that is a belief system on its own). So to answer your question, getting rid of stereotypes will soften your belief system.

...................................

[NeverMind]

Slightly off topic - and I do apologise - but since it was brought up...


For example vegans wont eat animals cause they are living beigns, and they eat plants but guess what .. they are living beigns too!!

You mean vegetarians, not vegans (vegans are, of course, vegetarians, only they do not eat anything of animal origin).

It is not the same at all. When you snip off corn cobs, you haven't killed the corn plant; it will go on living. When you pick a cherry, the cherry tree will go on living.
Cut the throat of an animal - it will not reappear the next year.

I am sure that, without a doubt, plants are every bit as sensitive as any other living being - perhaps even more.
But we don't know much about them (alas!). Which also means that we know nothing about possible processes of "alchemy" or transmutation that may be involved in their "death" through our mouths.

And so, if we, in our present human (existential) ignorance, have to draw a line somewhere (for the sake of physical survival), then it makes perfect sense to draw it where the most obvious similarities to our own species end. Show me an animal that doesn't have a face, that doesn't recoil in the face of danger, that does not protect its young, that doesn't look for shelter from rain or fire, and doesn't avoid pain.



istnt eating pork good to keep strength ( even if it needs to take life from animal)

Maybe if you are in extremis, abandoned in some desert, dying of hunger, it is.
In normal circumstances, it will sap your strength, as ingesting death and suffering is bound to.
Take it from a happy vegetarian who hasn't had a cold since 1999, and hasn't seen a doctor since the 1980s. :)

[Teakai]

Yes your mistake I was merely pointing out your error of assumption on which you based a specific rationalization, therefore nullifying your very point. I can do this all day if you keep giving me ammo ...




OK.
So, just to be perfectly clear -

Is it the case, then, that you have chosen your words carefully and with thought only on one specific occasion? Thats a silly assumption, what point does it serve? to distract from this perhaps? ... "I was merely pointing out your error of assumption on which you based a specific rationalization, therefore nullifying your very point. I can do this all day if you keep giving me ammo .." ;)


and do you think that it's OK for people to identify with a belief system, but it's not Ok for people to stereotype a belief system?

They are not the same. Not stereotyping isn't that hard at all, just use distinctions and accurate communications. Not having a belief system is REALLY hard. Softening one isn't too hard. But without a belief system you wouldn't even know a language (that is a belief system on its own). So to answer your question, getting rid of stereotypes will soften your belief system.

...................................



Yes - I did assume you had carefully thought out your posts.

Rationale would tell me they didn't come across as being too well thought out, because of the contradictions.
I want this etc - but I don't want to change people.
"I consider my self a new ager" and then backtracking on that.
That sort of thing.
But then I thought that maybe this is your viewpoint from where you are standing at the moment and this to you is true.

I gave you the benefit of making the assumption that you thought you were being honest by what you were writing.

If this is meant to be an example of how people can make the wrong assumption about something – it’s a really poor example.
Because the question is:
Am I really deliberately misunderstanding your posts.
Is it a case of you not taking care with your wording.
Is it a case of your thinking being somewhat illogical and contradictory?

And it doesn't matter one iota if religious beliefs and stereotying do not mean the same thing. They are the same in that it's a behaviour. An opinion. A form of mental identification without any Truth to it.
If people got to the point where they no longer stereotype - they would be beyond the point of identifiaction with belief systems.

[DeDukshyn]

Yes your mistake I was merely pointing out your error of assumption on which you based a specific rationalization, therefore nullifying your very point. I can do this all day if you keep giving me ammo ...




OK.
So, just to be perfectly clear -

Is it the case, then, that you have chosen your words carefully and with thought only on one specific occasion? Thats a silly assumption, what point does it serve? to distract from this perhaps? ... "I was merely pointing out your error of assumption on which you based a specific rationalization, therefore nullifying your very point. I can do this all day if you keep giving me ammo .." ;)


and do you think that it's OK for people to identify with a belief system, but it's not Ok for people to stereotype a belief system?

They are not the same. Not stereotyping isn't that hard at all, just use distinctions and accurate communications. Not having a belief system is REALLY hard. Softening one isn't too hard. But without a belief system you wouldn't even know a language (that is a belief system on its own). So to answer your question, getting rid of stereotypes will soften your belief system.

...................................



Yes - I did assume you had carefully thought out your posts. I recall a cliche about assumptions ... something about asses ...

Rationale would tell me they didn't come across as being too well thought out, because of the contradictions.
I want this etc - but I don't want to change people. There's no contradiction here. none whatsoever ... I do recall having several on you though with indisputable quotes to back them up - see previous posts ...
"I consider my self a new ager" and then backtracking on that. Remember when I posted this? "What I consider myself is not "stereotyping" (as you previously tried to make the connection) nor anyones business for judgement, thanks." and you when posted this? "I'm only going by what you write, DeDukshyn ... "? There was no back tracking, really ... and if I take a perspective to make a point then that is what I did, so sorry about your feelings on that <cry>.

That sort of thing.
But then I thought that maybe this is your viewpoint from where you are standing at the moment and this to you is true. More assumptions?

I gave you the benefit of making the assumption that you thought you were being honest by what you were writing. Again, your assumption ... I see a trend developing ...

If this is meant to be an example of how people can make the wrong assumption about something – it’s a really poor example. you're making it much better, thanks ;)
Because the question is:
Am I really deliberately misunderstanding your posts. Or maybe you just don't get it? an equal possibility.
Is it a case of you not taking care with your wording. I'm not perfect but I think I am a doing better job than you ;)
Is it a case of your thinking being somewhat illogical and contradictory? From the perspective you have chosen, I see why you believe that.

And it doesn't matter one iota if religious beliefs and stereotying do not mean the same thing. They are the same in that it's a behaviour. Picking your nose is a behaviour, I guess in this logic it is also a religious belief? An opinion. A form of mental identification without any Truth to it. Like I said, there's no "truth", so communicationis abstract, therefore needs distinctions and accuracy - my main point, thanks for supporting it.
If people got to the point where they no longer stereotype - they would be beyond the point of identifiaction with belief systems.Blatant lie. Not even remotely true. Explain this if you actually believe it, after you define "belief system" and "stereotype" for yourself.


............

[Teakai]

Yes your mistake I was merely pointing out your error of assumption on which you based a specific rationalization, therefore nullifying your very point. I can do this all day if you keep giving me ammo ...


OK.
So, just to be perfectly clear -

Is it the case, then, that you have chosen your words carefully and with thought only on one specific occasion? Thats a silly assumption, what point does it serve? to distract from this perhaps? ... "I was merely pointing out your error of assumption on which you based a specific rationalization, therefore nullifying your very point. I can do this all day if you keep giving me ammo .." ;)


and do you think that it's OK for people to identify with a belief system, but it's not Ok for people to stereotype a belief system?

They are not the same. Not stereotyping isn't that hard at all, just use distinctions and accurate communications. Not having a belief system is REALLY hard. Softening one isn't too hard. But without a belief system you wouldn't even know a language (that is a belief system on its own). So to answer your question, getting rid of stereotypes will soften your belief system.

...................................



Yes - I did assume you had carefully thought out your posts. I recall a cliche about assumptions ... something about asses ...

Rationale would tell me they didn't come across as being too well thought out, because of the contradictions.
I want this etc - but I don't want to change people. There's no contradiction here. none whatsoever ... I do recall having several on you though with indisputable quotes to back them up - see previous posts ...
"I consider my self a new ager" and then backtracking on that. Remember when I posted this? "What I consider myself is not "stereotyping" (as you previously tried to make the connection) nor anyones business for judgement, thanks." and you when posted this? "I'm only going by what you write, DeDukshyn ... "? There was no back tracking, really ... and if I take a perspective to make a point then that is what I did, so sorry about your feelings on that <cry>.

That sort of thing.
But then I thought that maybe this is your viewpoint from where you are standing at the moment and this to you is true. More assumptions?

I gave you the benefit of making the assumption that you thought you were being honest by what you were writing. Again, your assumption ... I see a trend developing ...

If this is meant to be an example of how people can make the wrong assumption about something – it’s a really poor example. you're making it much better, thanks ;)
Because the question is:
Am I really deliberately misunderstanding your posts. Or maybe you just don't get it? an equal possibility.
Is it a case of you not taking care with your wording. I'm not perfect but I think I am a doing better job than you ;)
Is it a case of your thinking being somewhat illogical and contradictory? From the perspective you have chosen, I see why you believe that.

And it doesn't matter one iota if religious beliefs and stereotying do not mean the same thing. They are the same in that it's a behaviour. Picking your nose is a behaviour, I guess in this logic it is also a religious belief? An opinion. A form of mental identification without any Truth to it. Like I said, there's no "truth", so communicationis abstract, therefore needs distinctions and accuracy - my main point, thanks for supporting it.
If people got to the point where they no longer stereotype - they would be beyond the point of identifiaction with belief systems.Blatant lie. Not even remotely true. Explain this if you actually believe it, after you define "belief system" and "stereotype" for yourself.


............

A belief system - an organised system of unfounded belief based on faith and heresay that something is so.

Stereotyping - making a judgement in regard to something based on an unfounded assumption that something is so.

The have different meanings. But they come from the same place.

Picking ones nose is a behaviour, yes, but it has no logical connection to the point I'm making.
:)

*How is language a belief system?

[DeDukshyn]

Yes your mistake I was merely pointing out your error of assumption on which you based a specific rationalization, therefore nullifying your very point. I can do this all day if you keep giving me ammo ...


OK.
So, just to be perfectly clear -

Is it the case, then, that you have chosen your words carefully and with thought only on one specific occasion? Thats a silly assumption, what point does it serve? to distract from this perhaps? ... "I was merely pointing out your error of assumption on which you based a specific rationalization, therefore nullifying your very point. I can do this all day if you keep giving me ammo .." ;)


and do you think that it's OK for people to identify with a belief system, but it's not Ok for people to stereotype a belief system?

They are not the same. Not stereotyping isn't that hard at all, just use distinctions and accurate communications. Not having a belief system is REALLY hard. Softening one isn't too hard. But without a belief system you wouldn't even know a language (that is a belief system on its own). So to answer your question, getting rid of stereotypes will soften your belief system.

...................................



Yes - I did assume you had carefully thought out your posts. I recall a cliche about assumptions ... something about asses ...

Rationale would tell me they didn't come across as being too well thought out, because of the contradictions.
I want this etc - but I don't want to change people. There's no contradiction here. none whatsoever ... I do recall having several on you though with indisputable quotes to back them up - see previous posts ...
"I consider my self a new ager" and then backtracking on that. Remember when I posted this? "What I consider myself is not "stereotyping" (as you previously tried to make the connection) nor anyones business for judgement, thanks." and you when posted this? "I'm only going by what you write, DeDukshyn ... "? There was no back tracking, really ... and if I take a perspective to make a point then that is what I did, so sorry about your feelings on that <cry>.

That sort of thing.
But then I thought that maybe this is your viewpoint from where you are standing at the moment and this to you is true. More assumptions?

I gave you the benefit of making the assumption that you thought you were being honest by what you were writing. Again, your assumption ... I see a trend developing ...

If this is meant to be an example of how people can make the wrong assumption about something – it’s a really poor example. you're making it much better, thanks ;)
Because the question is:
Am I really deliberately misunderstanding your posts. Or maybe you just don't get it? an equal possibility.
Is it a case of you not taking care with your wording. I'm not perfect but I think I am a doing better job than you ;)
Is it a case of your thinking being somewhat illogical and contradictory? From the perspective you have chosen, I see why you believe that.

And it doesn't matter one iota if religious beliefs and stereotying do not mean the same thing. They are the same in that it's a behaviour. Picking your nose is a behaviour, I guess in this logic it is also a religious belief? An opinion. A form of mental identification without any Truth to it. Like I said, there's no "truth", so communicationis abstract, therefore needs distinctions and accuracy - my main point, thanks for supporting it.
If people got to the point where they no longer stereotype - they would be beyond the point of identifiaction with belief systems.Blatant lie. Not even remotely true. Explain this if you actually believe it, after you define "belief system" and "stereotype" for yourself.


............

A belief system - an organised system of unfounded belief based on faith and heresay that something is so.

Stereotyping - making a judgement in regard to something based on an unfounded assumption that something is so.

The have different meanings. But they come from the same place.

*How is language a belief system?

I asked you to define it because I knew your definition was different than mine. Some of my posts may possibly have a slightly different meaning if re-read applying the definition I give below ... depending on your initial interpretation - it might worth checking out.

A belief system is a system of belief. It doesn't have to be unfounded - you just have to believe it consistantly. Therefore, our culture is a belief system, our traditions are a belief system, religions, superstitions, even sciences - everyone who believes something with consistency either through language or repeated behaviour is participating in a belief system. Again a lack of distinction is the thorn, as what you described to me would be more of a specific type, like "religious belief system" and I mean all this literally.

Language is a belief system of consistent beliefs or confidence in agreements that certain symbols will represent certain things. Without the belief in those agreements language falls apart. That is the belief system of language.

[Teakai]

I asked you to define it because I knew your definition was different than mine. Some of my posts may possibly have a slightly different meaning if re-read applying the definition I give below ... depending on your initial interpretation - it might worth checking out.

A belief system is a system of belief. It doesn't have to be unfounded - you just have to believe it consistantly. Therefore, our culture is a belief system, our traditions are a belief system, religions, superstitions, even sciences - everyone who believes something with consistency either through language or repeated behaviour is participating in a belief system. Again a lack of distinction is the thorn, as what you described to me would be more of a specific type, like "religious belief system" and I mean all this literally.

Language is a belief system of consistent beliefs or confidence in agreements that certain symbols will represent certain things. Without the belief in those agreements language falls apart. That is the belief system of language.

I agree with you about the belief systems.
Yet, it is unfounded by the fact that it's a 'belief' system which is based on faith. Believing something to be true, doesn't make it true. Whether that be in culture, science or anything.

Yet we take these things and we use them as an identifier as to who we are. We say this belief defines me.

Stereotyping is the other side - my belief defines you.

Language, however is an agreement based on solidity - letters. It's a functioning system which results in communication - so, it's not a belief system. One doesn't require faith to understand it and achieve results - just a knowledge of how it works.

[DeDukshyn]

...
Language, however is an agreement based on solidity - letters. It's a functioning system which results in communication - so, it's not a belief system. One doesn't require faith to understand it and achieve results - just a knowledge of how it works.

There's about three pages of posts on this thread that are an example otherwise ;)

Letters are somewhat more constant (your term was solid(ity)-same thing)- I see what your are saying, but we don't communicate with letters - we communicate with words, and words are far less constant - just look at your defintion of belief system and mine - not constant. ;) Everyone's definition of words is going to vary.

[Teakai]

...
Language, however is an agreement based on solidity - letters. It's a functioning system which results in communication - so, it's not a belief system. One doesn't require faith to understand it and achieve results - just a knowledge of how it works.

There's about three pages of posts on this thread that are an example otherwise ;)

Letters are somewhat more constant (your term was solid(ity)-same thing)- I see what your are saying, but we don't communicate with letters - we communicate with words, and words are far less constant - just look at your defintion of belief system and mine - not constant. ;) Everyone's definition of words is going to vary.

:) True dat - that's where dictionaries come into it.

Because sometimes people put their own distinction on a word which is not in fitting with the agreed definition of that word.

[Shadowstar1370]

I don't understand all the sitting meditation stuff, never could get into it. Maybe because I never had formal instruction and am just figuring it out as I go along, but whatever. Just from personal experience, the closest I've ever come to what the so called experts refer to as deep meditation has been while walking. I have great difficulty being physically still, I have to be doing and involved in something to think straight or I fly off in a dozen different cerebral directions. From this perspective, I understand Aaron's ridicule of people who sit around all day mumbling in the lotus position.You get used to that, you have to learn to move and be active. To be complete, a person must be both a thinker and a doer. It is a guarantee that Aaron is far from alone in his assessment of so called New Agers, a lot of it being from ignorance certainly. What Aaron is not considering, I suspect, is that the New Age movement profitted heavily from the very same rebellious attitude he is putting on display in that video. People like myself who bought into initially out of rebellion against snobbish holier-than-thou bible thumpers. I know plenty others who got it into it also out of appreciation for the rhetoric about simply slowing down and taking a break from the breakneck pace of society. This second part, if embraced by more, would go a long way towards Aaron's goal of healing the world. We all tend to move so fast in both our minds and our physical progress that we scarcely take notice of what is being left behind or trampled over.

[DeDukshyn]

... I have to be doing and involved in something to think straight or I fly off in a dozen different cerebral directions. From this perspective, I understand Aaron's ridicule of people who sit around all day mumbling in the lotus position.You get used to that, you have to learn to move and be active ...

Medititation isn't about funky positions, chants, mantras, etc - those are tools people use to help meditate. Meditation is the practice of being able to still your mind and NOT think (this takes a lot of practice usually). Once your mind is completely still, the ego is momentarily set aside and new faculties open up and allow a person to send and/or recieve finer forms of energy. My 2 cents.

[DeDukshyn]

...
Language, however is an agreement based on solidity - letters. It's a functioning system which results in communication - so, it's not a belief system. One doesn't require faith to understand it and achieve results - just a knowledge of how it works.

There's about three pages of posts on this thread that are an example otherwise ;)

Letters are somewhat more constant (your term was solid(ity)-same thing)- I see what your are saying, but we don't communicate with letters - we communicate with words, and words are far less constant - just look at your defintion of belief system and mine - not constant. ;) Everyone's definition of words is going to vary.

:) True dat - that's where dictionaries come into it.

Because sometimes people put their own distinction on a word which is not in fitting with the agreed definition of that word.

I isn't even a sometimes thing, it's a most of the time thing. Well over 50% of all the learning of words comes from learning from the context in which OTHER people are using them, and they are using them based on what the believe the words to mean. The first five years of us all learning our language was never done with dictionaries or formal agreements of definitions and this period is where you learn most about language. And even if you use a dictionary, one may have a slightly definition than the next, and both are using other "words" to try to give the definition - words that you (or me or anyone) may have learned from context from other's uses based on their definitions. The difference are subtle, but they do have implications.

The error is that we all believe we all have the exact same definitions for words, but this not even a possibility. Nearly all issues on this planet are related to communication of some sort; either the lack thereof, the suppression therof, miscommunications, etc. Language as we know it is the bane of mankind - look at children, before and after they learn language - they change .. a lot, this should be notable by every parent, language creates a belief system ... and a false one. But as you said, currently that is what we have to work with (at least until telepathy becomes more rampant), so the best way to treat the situation is to be aware and diligent in the acceptance that what someone is saying, is likely not an accurate representation of what they really wanted to say. How many times have people said in their heads "darn, I wish I would have said ...". stereotyping, generalizing, lumping, add a great deal to the issues of language - more specific communication that fully avoid those three categories will help alleviate that, and alleviate the problems I pointed out aboive. We have finally gotten to my true point of all this. I hope you can understand where I was coming from. It's (my previous posts on the topic and my debate arguments) all about communication improvements to change the planet for the better, not about defending stereotypes or any of that other rubbish.

I took this communication course once, one thing they taught was that when in a verbal communication with someone, and they are trying to complain to you about something, they will have mixed up emotion into their content, and that will only seek to further bungle communication, because they likely won't be giveing you fact based information, but a combo of fact based and emotional based, from which they facts may need to be made distinct. An easy way to do this is before making any response, ask something like .. "Ok, What I think I hear you are saying is ... "(and paraphrase what you think they were trying to tell you while encouraging the facts to come out). If you get it wrong, they will try again, then you try again, until you have a confident agreement about the true topic and the distinction between emotional data and factual data; THEN you start responding based on that agreement.

When you understand the fallacies of language, you can just use the tools needed to get around those fallacies. The tools are there, they do exist, but most people aren't even close to understanding that communication is not absolute not rigid at all, it is an art - not a technique or a science. There are no rigid constants - every word has a slight but completely unpredictable variability to it. We will never be able to improve communication on this planet without first making everyone aware of the fallacies, then they can pick up the tools they never realized they needed.

[Teakai]

...
Language, however is an agreement based on solidity - letters. It's a functioning system which results in communication - so, it's not a belief system. One doesn't require faith to understand it and achieve results - just a knowledge of how it works.

There's about three pages of posts on this thread that are an example otherwise ;)

Letters are somewhat more constant (your term was solid(ity)-same thing)- I see what your are saying, but we don't communicate with letters - we communicate with words, and words are far less constant - just look at your defintion of belief system and mine - not constant. ;) Everyone's definition of words is going to vary.

:) True dat - that's where dictionaries come into it.

Because sometimes people put their own distinction on a word which is not in fitting with the agreed definition of that word.

I isn't even a sometimes thing, it's a most of the time thing. Well over 50% of all the learning of words comes from learning from the context in which OTHER people are using them, and they are using them based on what the believe the words to mean. The first five years of us all learning our language was never done with dictionaries or formal agreements of definitions and this period is where you learn most about language. And even if you use a dictionary, one may have a slightly definition than the next, and both are using other "words" to try to give the definition - words that you (or me or anyone) may have learned from context from other's uses based on their definitions. The difference are subtle, but they do have implications.

The error is that we all believe we all have the exact same definitions for words, but this not even a possibility. Nearly all issues on this planet are related to communication of some sort; either the lack thereof, the suppression therof, miscommunications, etc. Language as we know it is the bane of mankind - look at children, before and after they learn language - they change .. a lot, this should be notable by every parent, language creates a belief system ... and a false one. But as you said, currently that is what we have to work with (at least until telepathy becomes more rampant), so the best way to treat the situation is to be aware and diligent in the acceptance that what someone is saying, is likely not an accurate representation of what they really wanted to say. How many times have people said in their heads "darn, I wish I would have said ...". stereotyping, generalizing, lumping, add a great deal to the issues of language - more specific communication that fully avoid those three categories will help alleviate that, and alleviate the problems I pointed out aboive. We have finally gotten to my true point of all this. I hope you can understand where I was coming from. It's (my previous posts on the topic and my debate arguments) all about communication improvements to change the planet for the better, not about defending stereotypes or any of that other rubbish.

I took this communication course once, one thing they taught was that when in a verbal communication with someone, and they are trying to complain to you about something, they will have mixed up emotion into their content, and that will only seek to further bungle communication, because they likely won't be giveing you fact based information, but a combo of fact based and emotional based, from which they facts may need to be made distinct. An easy way to do this is before making any response, ask something like .. "Ok, What I think I hear you are saying is ... "(and paraphrase what you think they were trying to tell you while encouraging the facts to come out). If you get it wrong, they will try again, then you try again, until you have a confident agreement about the true topic and the distinction between emotional data and factual data; THEN you start responding based on that agreement.

When you understand the fallacies of language, you can just use the tools needed to get around those fallacies. The tools are there, they do exist, but most people aren't even close to understanding that communication is not absolute not rigid at all, it is an art - not a technique or a science. There are no rigid constants - every word has a slight but completely unpredictable variability to it. We will never be able to improve communication on this planet without first making everyone aware of the fallacies, then they can pick up the tools they never realized they needed.

I get what you're saying above - In regard to body language - I heard that most of our communication takes place on the level of body language- where we can subconsciously pick up signals from the person we are speaking with. Which indicates to me that there is an instinctual unspoken level on which we communicate.
Going to the language part of communication - even if people mess it up and miscommunicate, whether it be due to their emotions, or their misuse of the meaning of a word. The formula is still based on an agreed method and value.

I do understand what you're saying in regard to stereotyping - only I'm saying that stereotyping and identifying with a belief (used as to the dictionary meaning) system are both the same in that they are en masse unfounded convictions used to draw a conclusion or place a judgment about oneself - or about someone else.

And that being in this place in our heads where we do this - we are able to be manipulated by the 'ptb' - or anyone, really.

[161803398]

I dunno....I was born kinda new-agey...and I know the PTB didn't make me...coz my mom and dad were kinda new agey too. I've never read one new age book and I don't hang around with new age people but I could probably tell anyone a lot about it because I experienced it from birth. But I'm an angry new ager. I know what he means too because I always go over the organic food store and get them riled up because they need it. You have to put your ideas into action and people don't always do that. New agers are just the same as everyone else...all talk; little action.