48. Being, and being a unity.

[Tony]

How does one prove the existence of 'being'?

One cannot, as any existence is a creation. So who or what are we? Well, we are not a who or a what. There is a teaching in Tibet called Madhyamika, which negates everything: it goes beyond knowing and not knowing. It's good to know if you want to become a lawyer!

This still doesn't answer the question (although, it does for scholars).

But we still need proof. How can one prove to a conceptual mind that it does not exist? If one uses the mind to answer this, it is just another concept. One cannot outsmart a concept with a concept.

So where are we? Are we just an organic AI machine? (Artificial Intelligence). No...there must be something about us that is alive and conscious. If not, this question is irrelevant!

Some believe we are 'beings of light', and others say we are nothing/zero and that death is the end. What if...what if, you are both right?! Seeing it from different ends of the spectrum. What we have here is a classic view of Eternalism and Nihilism. This is created by very strong habitual concepts that are being held in our minds. There is nothing wrong with this: there has to be something in the mind to work with.

If we can take 'light' to mean luminosity, and take luminosity to mean knowing or consciousness, and if we can take 'nothing' as just space, then empty space arrives at conscious space! We arrive at Empty Consciousness. The Middle Way. We are all seeing the same thing, but from different points of view!

Our mind wants to express itself in words, but we have a bias because we are not enlightened yet: we have a partial view. That's ok - it is still workable.
Behind that mind is a subtler conscious mind which sort of knows, but is caught between the physical and spiritual.
Behind that is very subtle consciousness. That is Empty Consciousness - Pure Perception. Call it whatever you wish.
But it cannot see clearly because it is seen through the veil of the concepts/ideas of our confused minds - which we are holding onto for safety, out of a subtle fear. The fear is saying, “If I have put a lot of effort into my belief. If I let go, where will I be?”

Very subtle mind knows and sees all this, but is held in an inner conflict. The inner conflict is part of the process. All we need to do is expand our inner awareness to encompass all views. This does not mean one will follow that view: it just means being generous.

Being divided, we suffer.
Being a unity does not mean we are all the same - just that we can work in the same space.

Call it whatever you wish.

Your views are welcome!

[Steven]

Thanks Pie'n'eal,

The source of all sufferance comes from this old feeling of separation we all felt when created. We come from the source, but we aren't totally separated, only now we have a totally new perspective and it gives a little sens of "vertigo". Each its own perspective.

The little fish was traveling all over the ocean, looking for the ocean. Finally, to meet an old fish enjoying the moment. So the little fish go head and ask the old fish: "Hi good sire, any idea where I can find the ocean?" :twitch: The old fish was a little surprised; "Well, its all over, you're in it, I'm in it, everything that you see is in it. We are all part of it and made out of it. It's in us and all together we are part of it, but not its sum." The old fish was satisfied with this answer, but not the little fish; "But why do I sens a strong will to look for it? Could it be because I decided to travel for some reason and in doing so, I felt away from home?" The old fish was surprised by such a profound thought; "I think so my young friend, until the day you realize everywhere is home."

Namaste, Steven

[Tarka the Duck]

In the light of things that have happened, and are happening now, this would be very healing.

Thanks
Tarka

[The One]

You must be the change you wish to see in the world when you are through changing, you are through

[Gaia]

Things change as soon as this being decides to cause something.

[RedeZra]

to achieve the Great spirit awareness

that is the Game and the Goal ; )

[truthseekerdan]

Great thread Tony, it's always good to learn from each other. :)

Some people believe that we are separate from one another and this allows them to do unthinkable things to others that they would have normally never dreamed of doing to themselves. By failing to recognize that we are not separate, these people produce and reproduce unwelcome results every day in their lives. Therefore as human beings, we are not, and can not be separate from one another. Separation is only an illusion. Everything is interrelated at the source level. Everything is actually only one thing at the most basic level. We become aware of this when the illusion of separation disappears. The deeper our understanding of this, the better we are at alleviating our suffering. All suffering ends when we find truth at its source.

To find truth at its source, we must first find out who we are at the deepest level. To find out who we are at the deepest level, we must have balance. To have balance, we must let go of all unwanted feelings or attachments, even if we do not see them as being connected to us. If we are able to do this, even for only a few moments each day, we will begin to understand that any unwanted feelings or attachments that arise can be disarmed and removed from our daily lives. The relief from this basic routine alone is proof that a great inner power and energy is within each one of us, waiting to be discovered.

To conclude, these are some scripture texts that tell us beautifully what our concern should be while being here in the physical: "Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears."

Much Love

[Tony]

The word emptiness, means primordial purity, free from any conceptual elaboration. This is the ultimate view. As long as it is not recognised, no matter how much meditation one does you will never transcend mind made views and mind made meditation.

This empty cognisance has three aspects: Ground, Path and Fruition. The Ground is open Enlightenment. The Path is were we are now, working in our confusion. The Fruition is realising our basic nature- confusion dawning as wisdom, which is the Ground.

The words Empty Cognisance is Sanskrit is called Dharmakaya. There is Ground Dharmakaya,
Path Dharmakaya and Fruition Dharmakaya.

Ground and Fruition are inseparable, and at the time of the Path Dharmakaya is veiled.

An example: if you have a vase made out of mud and inside is a candle flame...the flame is the Ground and the vase is the Path (dualistic mind). We cannot see the light of Dharmakaya, but when we receive the pointing out instruction, it is as if a little hole has been created in the vase, and the flames light can be seen.

That is the Path Dharmakaya. As we practise and become more stable, that is equivalent to destroying more of the vase. When the vase has gone, that is Fruition Dharmakaya.

All we have to do is face whatever appears on the Path (mind), and see it as a just a mere appearance. The vase never existed in the first place. We put it there, and maintain it.

That is why reacting to an illusion only make it seem real. This is a tough nut to crack! Oh, I forgot...the nut doesn't exist either!


Tony

[The One]

That is why reacting to an illusion only make it seem real



If we dont react to an illusion my friend then was it real before

[Tony]

That is why reacting to an illusion only make it seem real



If we dont react to an illusion my friend then was it real before

The nut has a relative reality, it sits there all hard and knobbly. Yet it is a product, it was created it dwelt for a while and then you ate it....gone! It was made up of particles which are now somewhere else, lurking on a beach ready to be squished on someone's foot.

The nut had no existence of its own. If a thing is real it can never not be real. So relative reality is not a constant. There is more space inside matter than particles.


So the absolute nature of that nut is emptiness. So what is constant, what is absolute....no thing! Space never changes, pure consciousness never changes.

Conscious space is Absolute. Without it everything is irrelevant. Something has to appreciate the nut!

Tony

At the moment I'm toying with mathematical formula, is there a constant there?

[The One]

Well we here a lot about the universe and the endless possibilities and that we are all connected in some way but what about the innerverse now that’s something totally different in itself and maybe thats what we are talking about

[Tony]

Well we here a lot about the universe and the endless possibilities and that we are all connected in some way but what about the innerverse now that’s something totally different in itself and maybe thats what we are talking about

To be honest dear One,
I haven't a clue what they are talking about. They seem to be talking about physical possibilities, and of course there is no end to the imagination and creating new things.
I don't know, but somehow I feel it is all a bit of a red herring...!

Someone put up a thread today about machines in Tibetan caves, sounds interesting but so what! Unless I get a chance to play with them, it's not much use.
The thing is, anything in the physical will keep one distracted from the inner world. I get a feeling that is exactly what 'they' want. The problem in this forum
people are covering the inner world with decorations!

Tony

[The One]

The thing is, anything in the physical will keep one distracted from the inner world


Spot on the innerverse

[PurpleLama]

Mr. Tony,

Why does one need proof of anything?

Sincerely,
PurpleLama

ps just suppose that one's requirement for proof could preclude one from finding Truth. Is this pointing beyond the conceptual?

[Tony]

Mr. Tony,

Why does one need proof of anything?

Sincerely,
PurpleLama

ps just suppose that one's requirement for proof could preclude one from finding Truth. Is this pointing beyond the conceptual?

Dear Purplelama,
You, are perfectly right.
There are 84,000 paths and they are perfectly right. I once said to a Lama I need proof. He tossed some academic answer and continued teaching. I cannot remember the answer.
But I did get the proof I needed. The answer had to be realised. The answer seems to be always in the question. "I" needed proof. The conceptual I wanted proof, with a concept. The answer was, "Who is asking the question?" Of course the answer for one person will not do for another.

The paths can be broken down into smaller groups, or temperaments.

Meditation.
Compassion.
Devotion.
Analytical.
Direct seeing.

Or a combination of the above. We sometimes need one more than another. I had a huge problem with devotional practice. As usual I complained to the Lama, he just said, "You don't have to do it". Well, did that piss me off! "I'm not giving up that easily, who does he think I am?" In that emotion I looked into the practise and realised the devotional practise
reflects the inner teacher. It is not something outside. Devotional practise revealed deep appreciation for the teachings. I then went on to realise that the three poisons are the three Kayas. This happened last year on retreat.

Truly, anything that gets up your nose... a lama, a fixated idea, a fellow Avalonian or a spaceship, just ask, "Who is asking the question?" and note Empty Awareness merely watching. Two birds sat on the same tree, one pecked the fruit the other sat and watched.

[The One]

Simple we aren't meant to understand everything

See you all later its way to hot to be in here,just going to relax with a southern comfort on the rocks.My brain at the moment is frazzled

[Mad Hatter]

Hmmm... semantics, one of my favourite games...

Would not the first step toward so called enlightenment be easier by first deciding what the definition of a unity is?
If it is a lack of duality then would you not more correctly be describing a singularity?
If we are already a unity how is it that your reality is different to my reality?
If you say thats because we live in a duality then I would say how does one define something within the confines of a unity?
Does not the expression 'I am that which I cannot point to and say I am that' require duality to arrive at the conclusion I am nothing thus potentially defining unity as nothing?
Or is the point of the exercise simply to accept that what is is?

Curve ball: If there is any validity to the expression "As above so below" and we are below, then are those above really enlightened? :p

cheers

[Tony]

Hmmm... semantics, one of my favourite games...

Would not the first step toward so called enlightenment be easier by first deciding what the definition of a unity is?
If it is a lack of duality then would you not more correctly be describing a singularity?
If we are already a unity how is it that your reality is different to my reality?
If you say thats because we live in a duality then I would say how does one define something within the confines of a unity?
Does not the expression 'I am that which I cannot point to and say I am that' require duality to arrive at the conclusion I am nothing thus potentially defining unity as nothing?
Or is the point of the exercise simply to accept that what is is?

Curve ball: If there is any validity to the expression "As above so below" and we are below, then are those above really enlightened? :p

cheers

A. Non-finding! Consciousness looks within itself and find emptiness. Just pure perception. A singularity looks at another singularities and sees the same singularity = a unity!


I love your comments,
Tony