View Full Version : Lord of the Rings--Vatican Star-gazing
Cidersomerset
5th July 2011, 19:14
Hi Curtis W welcome aboard.....I am a very lapsed R.C. and funnily enough I delivered to my old school St Josephs today, though I was only their for 3yrs, when I was small I found out had a phobia for 'Nunns' LOL...
By the time I was seven I realised it was not for me and made my parents transfer me to a state school where, it was far less oppressive..( personal view)
I've read the Lord of the Rings several times ...and although the movies were great specticles...Why they changed Charectors and narrative I don't know....Spoilt it a bit for us 'Tolkien' Fans imho .....
Its well known the book was based on his horrific experiances in the ww1 trenches , 'The Western Front inspired Mordor' but it must have also been influenced by his spiritual beliefs and
links with old Norse/English/celtic legends......The Elvish language was influenced by finnish & welsh as he was a linguistic proffessor at Oxford.....
Who knows what other knowledge he was trying to convey.....Cheers Steve..
hi3NMdFwjDg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sHFlpodGVw
Just found this video. It gets into a bit of what Maxwell and Weidner and others have gotten into. It suggests that 'Saturn' worship is a dark enterprise that cuts across all religions.
Cidersomerset
5th July 2011, 19:36
Tolkiens real creation Story is 'The Silmarilion' I read it years ago found it heavy going.....LOL.....ThoughWith what I know now I must rea it again.....
Introduction
The Cosmologies of
Tolkien and Gnosticism
The creation myth described by Tolkien within the Silmarillion is structured very much like the creation myths of the ancient Gnostics; some have suggested a connection to a particular form of gnosis called Manichaeism. While there are a few similarities between these two sources, in my opinion, Tolkien’s creation myth has much more in common with Valentinianism. The importance of Manichaeism should not be overlooked however; One of the best examples of a connection to Tolkien’s creation myth is the story of Melkor’s attack upon the Great Music; astablished by the Ainur. This is very similar to the Manichean myth concerning the "King of Darkness" and his attack upon the "Father of Greatness," another interesting similarity can be found in the mingling of the two music’s, this brings to mind the Manichean story of the mingling of darkness and light.
The creation tale as described within the first chapter of the Silmarillion, called Ainulindale, does in fact follow a basic Gnostic structure. Unfortunately, not every detail contained within that particular section of the Silmarillion can be accounted for within any one particular Gnostic myth. However, if we consider the general structure of the traditional Gnostic creation myth we have a pretty solid basis from which to work. Many people have tried to point out Christian concepts within the mythical world of Tolkien, and even though there are quit a few examples of this within Tolkien’s writings, the majority of these similarities tend to fall outside the spectrum of his creation mythos. In fact, some of the actions performed by Tolkien’s creator God seem to surpass; and in a few instances, even contradict the creative efforts of the Christian God as portrayed within the Bible.
Dr. Stefan Heoller, from the Gnostic Society in Los Angeles once stated in a lecture, that the creation myth of the Silmarillion is pure Gnosticism. Within the first few pages of the Silmarillion we come to realize that it not only contains a tale of the creation of the cosmos, but also a pre-creation. It is within the creation myth of the Valentinians where we find the closest parallel to the concepts described within the Silmarillion, but as I had stated above, Tolkien’s creation mythos is not represented by any one form of gnosis. The concept of Ainulindale (the Music of the Ainur) seems to switch between Valentinianism, Sethian gnosis, and Manichaeism. And just as with the Silmarillion, there are many Gnostic concepts which are not represented within Tolkien's creation myth. It should also be noted that there are a few minor differences in the order of events portrayed within the creation myths of the Silmarillion and Gnosticism.
It is not my intention to try and force a strict Gnostic structure upon the Silmarillion, and eventually you will learn; as I had, that there really is no reason to do so. The truth is that the story of Ainulindale fits in very nicely with the basic Gnostic creation myth. There are many different forms of gnosis, from Persian, Syrian-Egyptian, Greek and Christian. Each of these schools had their own unique viewpoint as to the creation of the universe and yet the creation stories of each of these systems are very similar. The reader should be aware of the limitations of this synopsis, this book would become to lengthy if I were to include ever single detail concerning the order of events as portrayed by each of these systems; in addition, many of these details would have no baring on the topic at hand.
The reader should also keep in mind the intent of this book, as I had mentioned before, it is not my intention to suggest that the Silmarillion is based directly on Gnostic myth, Tolkien was probably not even aware of the Gnostic movement at the time of its creation. What you will find however, is a certain symbiosis between Tolkien's creation myth and the Gnostic conception of the origin of materiality. The following synopsis is really a basic breakdown of the creation myths of Tolkien and Gnosticism. Out of the fifteen examples contained within the Gnostic section of the synopsis, only one of them is not found within the Silmarillion.
Brief outline of Tolkien's creation myth, as described within the Silmarillion
1. Eru, The One
2. The Thought of Ilúvatar
3. The Ainur
4. A mighty theme
5. Melkor causes flaws to occur within the great music
6. The Ainur behold a vision of the world to be
7. The Ainur do not comprehend the purpose of the vision
8. The Ainur become enamored by the pre-existent children
9. The Ainur direct all their thoughts and desire towards the pre-existent world
10. “It is”
11. Some of the Ainur stay with Ilúvatar, while others descend into the material universe
12. The fashioning of Arda
13. The refutation of Melkor’s claim on creation
14. The Ainur take on forms of male and female
15. Melkor descends in envy
The creation myth of the Gnostics
1. A Perfect Aeon, "The One" 'unknowable God, also called Abyss' (Valentianism)
The One "Father of All" (Sethian gnosis)
2. Thought "Ennoia, also called Silence" (Valentianism)
Forethought "Pronoia, or Divine Mother" (Sethian gnosis)
3. Ogdoad "Father, Son, and the four aspects issued from the Son" (Valentinianism)
Pleroma "Fullness, the Divine Realm" (multiple instances)
4. The fall of Sophia "Divine Wisdom" (Valentianism, Sethian)
Yaldabaoth "Child Pass through to here, the Great Archon, Lion-Serpent" (Sethian gnosis, Valentianism)
5. An image of the Divine realms appears before the archons (Valentianism, Sethian gnosis, Manicheanism)
6. The Archons "world rulers" cannot fully comprehend the origin of the image before them (Valentianism, Sethian)
7. Humanity would be patterned after the image "spiritual humanity, the pre-existent prototype” (Valentianism)
The King of Darkness produces Adam and Eve in the image of the aspects revealed by the Messenger (Manicheanism)
8. Three soul types: pneumatic, psychic and hylic (Valentianism)
9. The Archons lust after the image (On the Origin of the World)
10. Substance and formation (Valentianism, Sethian gnosis)
11. The spiritual seed + the Archons + Sophia = One (Valentianism)
12. Earth
13. "It is I who am God, and there is no other one that exists apart from me."
14. The division of the original Androgynous being
15. The Demiurge: a reflection of human ignorance
| Table of Contents | Introduction | Part I | Part II | Part III |Part IV |
Is Catholicism, as Maxwell and others have suggested a Saturn-based faith in some respects? I had initially thought the priest had told me to read the material because it could be seen as a well-constructed metaphor for the war in heaven--that the church were the good guys, in other words. But there seems to be ample evidence to suggest that the church itself, in some ways may be represented as Saturn/Lord of The Rings...Strange...
Thank you very much for this. I will spend time going over it. I appreciate the effort to lay this out in this way.
Cidersomerset
5th July 2011, 19:47
Hi ..I was trying to get the vids up , but it would not let me,so have to put the links up instead.
sorry I was indulging myselfe , the 1st link just gives you a feel of Tolkiens fantasy....
The 2nd link is a audio version of the Silmarillion which I will listen to later, sorry I got a bit
carried away..LOL Cheers Steve
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-Kjo1Qoikw&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbjZk_8bYm0&feature=related
Lord Sidious
5th July 2011, 20:08
Hi ..I was trying to get the vids up , but it would not let me,so have to put the links up instead.
sorry I was indulging myselfe , the 1st link just gives you a feel of Tolkiens fantasy....
The 2nd link is a audio version of the Silmarillion which I will listen to later, sorry I got a bit
carried away..LOL Cheers Steve
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-Kjo1Qoikw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbjZk_8bYm0
That should work now.
Cidersomerset
5th July 2011, 20:14
The city of Rome was originally known Saturnia city of Saturn....Saturn was a major Roman God.....The God of Agriculture more important than it sounds today...
Saturn
Saturn, god of harvest or time of reaping (sixth planet from the sun).
Saturn, Roman god of the harvest.
Harvest time in ancient Italy belonged to the god of reaping, whom the Romans called Saturn. A symbol curved like his sickle represents the planet.
Mother earth.
* Saturn (Sower) is closely connected with Demeter (Ceres) and his worship continued at Rome along with that of Zeus or Jupiter.
* He was an ancient Roman god of fertility, especially of agriculture.
* He was believed to be the deity who had introduced agriculture and with it civilization and government.
* He carried a sickle as his symbol.
* Saturn was worshiped in a winter festival called the Saturnalia and his name was/is used for the day of the week, Saturday.
* The Saturnalia started about December 17 and lasted for seven days.
* A harvest-home or winter solstice celebration marked by carnival, exchange of gifts, feasting, license and misrule, and a cessation of all public works.
* Masters served slaves; kings were chosen by lot, usually from among criminals or slaves, to preside over the feast, given ass ears, and then slain.
* A sacrificial victim was chosen to represent both the god himself and the king-surrogate.
* He was slain and sent to the underworld to merge with his divine counterpart.
* Its riotous indulgence is the source of the phrase Saturnalia of crime.
* It is said to have merged into the Christmas festival.
A few scientific facts about Saturn:
* The gas giant Saturn is the second largest planet in the solar sysem after its big brother Jupiter.
* Saturn has more than twenty satellites.
* The biggest is Titan, the solar system’s second largest moon.
* Larger than Mercury, it has an atmosphere denser than that of any other moon in the Solar System.
* Like so many other phenomena in the solar system, the rings of Saturn were first seen by Galileo.
* In 1610, he saw two bright spots on either side of the planet.
* Although his telescope was strong enough to see the disk of Saturn, it apparently was not powerful enough to resolve what the rings really were because he interpreted what he saw as a triple planet.
* Over the centuries, after several astronomers misinterpreted the contents of the rings, it was finally determined that they are, in fact, narrow bands of fine debris.
* Also, over hundreds of years, astronomers thought Saturn was the only ringed planet.
* Voyager found rings around Jupiter, and astronomers using a telescope also spotted evidence of rings around Uranus.
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Hi This vid looks interresting ...Sorry Curtis you have woke me up I was dozing off a hour ago...LOL
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Cidersomerset
5th July 2011, 20:17
Thanks Lord Sidius I'm new to this vid buisiness, Somtimes I just can't seem to get it up !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL ..Cheers Steve..
Cidersomerset
5th July 2011, 21:28
Well that was a very well put together interpretation of how all the major religions are Satanists worshiping Saturn.....I have heard this before probably from david Icke or Jordon Maxwell.....
Hexagons ,pentagrams everywhere , and I now know where my phobia to nunns and vicars came from as a boy..LOL.....
They all seem to be Goat worshipping 'Mendes' and 'Tranny Baphomets ' ...Although I have no doubt the power Elite of the world are satanic worshippers thats a cage I don't subcribe to..
even if I am effected like everyone else by the decisions they make.........
One thing I have learn't is there is only one true god that is me....and there are trillions of others in the universe & that is you and our 'Cosmic' brothers and sisters and other genders......Steve
It would seem that Saturn is the keeper of linear time here on Earth. Essentially a "hard drive" for the holographic Earth. When you know where to look, Saturn shows up everywhere. It is pervasive in the world's oldest religions as well.
EL=Yahweh=Saturn according to Kabbalists.
You worship in a Temple or Temp-EL. Temp=tempus (latin)=time. So it would seem one goes to worship the time-god or time-lord. Saturn is also known as Kronos, patron of harvest, the grim reaper.
Also, EL shows up in a lot of places. All the archang-ELs of the bible have EL in their name. Gabri-EL, Uri-EL, Micha-EL, etc. Kind of makes you wonder what their halos actually represented.
And don't forget Isra-EL.
I mean just look at the symbols for Skype and Direct TV. There are references to Saturn everywhere you look.
My personal belief is that Saturn is not a planet but actually a stargate. And if Saturn does in fact create 3D time and space on Earth, then those who control Saturn control Earth. Therefore, the minions here that are doing the bidding of their God's of Saturn are telling you about it the whole time they are doing it, it's just that we haven't known where to look.
Lord of the Rings is definitely telling us something. Good catch. I will be watching this thread with interest. This subject has its tentacles is every conspiracy theory that I can think of...
bearcow
6th July 2011, 01:35
perhaps it would be a good idea if one of the mods combined the threads on saturn into one large thread or create a sub heading on the forum so people can find all this vitally important information with relative ease. thanks
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?15088-Iapetus
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?19302-IAPETUS-moon-w-a-view-a-big-WOW-from-Hoagland
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?16906-Cult-of-Saturn
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?21323-Saturn-How-deep-are-you-willing-to-go
taurad
6th July 2011, 02:43
hi all,
I started reading The Silmarilion around 2002-2003...to this day i haven't finished yet...last time i was, i bookmarked it @ over 3/4 of it...you cannot read it in a hurry!!!
i'm pretty sure when i'll decide to go back to it, i'll have to start over again...that's how beautiful and a detailed tale of creation it is!!!!
the book is a MUST for whoever feels turned off by established religions' holy books...if you're searching for a mesmerizing/powerful TALE of CREATION, your search is over!!!!
as a matter of fact, i have been seriously recommending it around, as a true model of creation/bible replacement ever since i discovered it...
i cannot believe a human is capable of having such a level of sophistication in his/her head...Tolkien's imagination was titanic...as a matter of fact, i'm afraid i started re-defining what "imagination" means after i read it...
i do not longer believe (this is my personal absolute belief) a human creates smth out of nothingness...what we call "imagination" is knowledge...some humans are able to have access (recall it)...most cannot...i think Bill Ryan is right on this definition...
anyway, to wrap it up, Tolkien's "The Silmarilion" is a true TALE of CREATION...and if tomorrow i find out that universe was created differently, i'll suggest to be destroyed and re-created again, this time the Tolkien-way :)
by the way, he never finished it...he set-up the foundation for his "world" in The Silmarilion, then wrote the trilogy, other little tings, continued his "bible", went back and forth to it infinite times, and departed before finishing it...it was his son who put it together and published it after death...
The Silmarilion was Tolkien's true lifetime work...
p.s. i challenged the book by asking questions widely unanswered/unanswerable by the hebrew/christian/islam holy books, and every question was resolved nicely, without room for any interpretations/misunderstandings...Tolkien must have definitely studied those holy books, judging by the compactness he offered in his "bible"!!!
cheers
It would seem that Saturn is the keeper of linear time here on Earth. Essentially a "hard drive" for the holographic Earth. When you know where to look, Saturn shows up everywhere. It is pervasive in the world's oldest religions as well.
EL=Yahweh=Saturn according to Kabbalists.
You worship in a Temple or Temp-EL. Temp=tempus (latin)=time. So it would seem one goes to worship the time-god or time-lord. Saturn is also known as Kronos, patron of harvest, the grim reaper.
Also, EL shows up in a lot of places. All the archang-ELs of the bible have EL in their name. Gabri-EL, Uri-EL, Micha-EL, etc. Kind of makes you wonder what their halos actually represented.
And don't forget Isra-EL.
I mean just look at the symbols for Skype and Direct TV. There are references to Saturn everywhere you look.
My personal belief is that Saturn is not a planet but actually a stargate. And if Saturn does in fact create 3D time and space on Earth, then those who control Saturn control Earth. Therefore, the minions here that are doing the bidding of their God's of Saturn are telling you about it the whole time they are doing it, it's just that we haven't known where to look.
Lord of the Rings is definitely telling us something. Good catch. I will be watching this thread with interest. This subject has its tentacles is every conspiracy theory that I can think of...
Thanks Kano. It's a huge topic that reaches into everything. Here's a video with Red Ice Creations and Jay Weidner. He discusses, Kubrick, The Brotherhood of Saturn, and also Saturn as an inter-dimensional gateway. Very interesting stuff.
http://youtu.be/ssnlbnAGGV0
I have heard that interview with Jay Weidner before. Seems that he is a pretty wise dude. I like him.
Here's something that I always found interesting. That guy Rahm is one evil SOB so this makes sense.
Oh well, my images didn't load right. Anyway, look up the finger of Saturn and then google Rahm Emanuel's middle finger.
Carmody
8th July 2011, 02:19
When you celebrate Christmas, you are actually celebrating on the "feast day of saturnalia'.
You are committing to an act of pagan worship. You are celebrating father time, the great limiter, The Black Sun. Saturn.
Christ's birthday was no-where near December 25th. That day is a fabrication designed to 'blend' the Pagan worship of Rome with that of the emergent Christan sect. Look up the two "councils of Nicaea".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B35SMfHN5f8&feature=related
"All sense of freedom gone......"
Full lyrics:
Murderer!
Man of fire.
Murderer!
I've seen the eyes of living dead.
It's the same game - survival.
The great mass play a waiting game.
Embalmed, crippled, dying in fear of pain.
All sense of freedom gone.
Black sun in a white world.
Like having a black sun in a white world.
I have a son,
His name is Eden.
It's his birthright,
Beyond estranged time.
Give me 69 years,
Another season in this hell.
It's all sex and death as far as I can tell. *
Like Prometheus we are bound,
Chained to this rock of a brave new world,
Our godforsaken lot.
And I feel that's all we've ever needed to know,
'Til worlds end and the seas run cold.
Give me 69 years,
Another season in this hell.
There is sex and death
In mother nature's plans.
Like Prometheus we are bound,
Chained to this rock of a brave new world,
Our godforsaken lot.
And..that is what you give energy to when you celebrate the 'Christian Christmas'.
*(Apollo cult, aka God of "Mars", that is the religious sect that really underlies the Vatican and what is connected to it.The direct hint is the Prometheus 'tact' in the song)
Loveisall21
8th July 2011, 06:27
Whoa Cidersomerset that was one creepy video. I need to go to watch some vids of puppies and kittens now. But thanks I watched the whole thing. I grew up in a catholic/jehovah's witness family. Can you imagine. But I'm actually thankful for it now because it showed me so clearly the insanity of religion. And I am now happily religion free. It's a dark dark business this deceptive world, makes you long for the beautiful simplicity of the Shire. That is what the earth is meant to be and will be again. Till then we have puppies and kittens.
When you celebrate Christmas, you are actually celebrating on the "feast day of saturnalia'.
You are committing to an act of pagan worship. You are celebrating father time, the great limiter, The Black Sun. Saturn.
Christ's birthday was no-where near December 25th. That day is a fabrication designed to 'blend' the Pagan worship of Rome with that of the emergent Christan sect. Look up the two "councils of Nicaea".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B35SMfHN5f8&feature=related
"All sense of freedom gone......"
Full lyrics:
Murderer!
Man of fire.
Murderer!
I've seen the eyes of living dead.
It's the same game - survival.
The great mass play a waiting game.
Embalmed, crippled, dying in fear of pain.
All sense of freedom gone.
Black sun in a white world.
Like having a black sun in a white world.
I have a son,
His name is Eden.
It's his birthright,
Beyond estranged time.
Give me 69 years,
Another season in this hell.
It's all sex and death as far as I can tell. *
Like Prometheus we are bound,
Chained to this rock of a brave new world,
Our godforsaken lot.
And I feel that's all we've ever needed to know,
'Til worlds end and the seas run cold.
Give me 69 years,
Another season in this hell.
There is sex and death
In mother nature's plans.
Like Prometheus we are bound,
Chained to this rock of a brave new world,
Our godforsaken lot.
And..that is what you give energy to when you celebrate the 'Christian Christmas'.
*(Apollo cult, aka God of "Mars", that is the religious sect that really underlies the Vatican and what is connected to it.The direct hint is the Prometheus 'tact' in the song)
Yes, and Rome was not known to Romans as "Rome". It was known as Saturnalia.
MorningSong
8th July 2011, 15:10
Fascinating Stuff! Thanks, folks!
Cidersomerset
8th July 2011, 16:11
Hi Taured .......I read the Silmarilion 30 years ago and found it hard to read more than 10 pages at a time before falling a sleep.LOL.. I enjoyed it and have been meaning to read it again sometime..
What struck me back then was the notion that the Universe was created from music, I always thought that a beautiful concept......
We humans resonate so deeply with music , infact I think it is one of our better atributes and we express our full range of emotions powerfully through this medium , as can be demonstrated by
movie sound tracks ,thats something Goebels and the Nazi tried and is still being used today for 'mind control' to exploit our emotions and keep us complient.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MItSfCQE4_o
There are better frequencies.....528 Hz for miricles and Healing....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuG2ILHKj6A&feature=related
The point is music and sound has played, and will play a vital part in our development...Steve
Having trouble getting U tube up again..LOL ..
taurad
8th July 2011, 16:51
When you celebrate Christmas, you are actually celebrating on the "feast day of saturnalia'.
You are committing to an act of pagan worship. You are celebrating father time, the great limiter, The Black Sun. Saturn.
Christ's birthday was no-where near December 25th. That day is a fabrication designed to 'blend' the Pagan worship of Rome with that of the emergent Christan sect. Look up the two "councils of Nicaea".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B35SMfHN5f8&feature=related
"All sense of freedom gone......"
Full lyrics:
Murderer!
Man of fire.
Murderer!
I've seen the eyes of living dead.
It's the same game - survival.
The great mass play a waiting game.
Embalmed, crippled, dying in fear of pain.
All sense of freedom gone.
Black sun in a white world.
Like having a black sun in a white world.
I have a son,
His name is Eden.
It's his birthright,
Beyond estranged time.
Give me 69 years,
Another season in this hell.
It's all sex and death as far as I can tell. *
Like Prometheus we are bound,
Chained to this rock of a brave new world,
Our godforsaken lot.
And I feel that's all we've ever needed to know,
'Til worlds end and the seas run cold.
Give me 69 years,
Another season in this hell.
There is sex and death
In mother nature's plans.
Like Prometheus we are bound,
Chained to this rock of a brave new world,
Our godforsaken lot.
And..that is what you give energy to when you celebrate the 'Christian Christmas'.
*(Apollo cult, aka God of "Mars", that is the religious sect that really underlies the Vatican and what is connected to it.The direct hint is the Prometheus 'tact' in the song)
Huge fan of Dead Can Dance here...thanx for posting it my friend
Hi Taured .......I read the Silmarilion 30 years ago and found it hard to read more than 10 pages at a time before falling a sleep.LOL.. I enjoyed it and have been meaning to read it again sometime..
What struck me back then was the notion that the Universe was created from music, I always thought that a beautiful concept......
We humans resonate so deeply with music , infact I think it is one of our better atributes and we express our full range of emotions powerfully through this medium , as can be demonstrated by
movie sound tracks ,thats something Goebels and the Nazi tried and is still being used today for 'mind control' to exploit our emotions and keep us complient.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MItSfCQE4_o
There are better frequencies.....528 Hz for miricles and Healing....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuG2ILHKj6A&feature=related
The point is music and sound has played and will play a vital part in our development...Steve
Having trouble getting U tube up again..LOL ..
Couldn't agree more on everything you said...The Silmarilion, i must have gone back and forth 20 more times on certain pages/chapters...if you don't go slow, make the connections not only between different entities among themselves also their interaction with their immortals, but also the planet and events, then the book is not for you...
the Element of Music in Silmarilion touched me sooo profoundly i cannot describe in words...
the pop concept about Tolkien is of a insanely imaginative person...if you look closely to The Silmarilion, i would dare say he used a way-stronger reality check than the existing religious dogmas, and left all the weak links of the biblical idiosyncrasies out...
the bible is a completely voodoo book to me...The Silmarilion lays it out to the most precise detail how things work...try find that in the bible...
cheers
Curt
10th July 2011, 14:59
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CHcjFefzdA
Here's an interesting video on the occult significance of Lord of The Rings. It's short, and thought provoking.
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