Thoughts on New Age "religion" and the New World Order

[Humble Janitor]

I just wanted to share some of my thoughts that went through my head as I was working.

First of all, I truly believe that there are folks on here that are part of a "new age" religion. They believe strongly in concepts like ascension, foreign entities that will save us (more on this) and preparing for what's referred to as the awakening.

Second of all, the folks that I see as part of this new "religion" are folks who seem to attach on to concepts that have little or no scientific basis in my opinion (such as ascension, raising your vibrations, etc). It's true that there are always going to be good concepts within religion. My biggest beef yet is how these concepts are presented to both believers and non-believers.

Which brings me to my third thought: Is it possible that alphabet agencies conceived or have invaded this new age "religion" for the sole purpose of pushing the New World Order?

Think of it this way: The "Big 3" religions are no longer as powerful as they once were. One can argue that this applies strongly to Christianity, especially the Catholic and extreme right elements of this religion. If these religions dwindle in numbers, how can TPTB even hope to control the population?

Enter the new age deception and all the talk about ascension, etc. It's true that we will very well see an awakening of sorts but it will be a rude one if TPTB get their way.

You see, they are already hard at work at dividing you and I when their followers start to make assumptions about others and recommend alternate forms of treatment, etc that have not been proven. What better way to control the masses (again) by giving them false hope?

This is why I now have a hard time believing anyone that talks about 2012 as a time of catastrophe OR rebirth. If they are selling products or selling their own egos, they are either willingly or unwillingly doing the bidding for TPTB.

They are slowly preparing their followers for the "shucking and devouring" part that will most certainly come.

As these followers continue to push this agenda, they literally pave the way for the New World Order and not the Awakening that the human race needs.

As I type this, the arthritis in my right hand is flaring up, which is likely a good thing as I have a lot on my mind.

We as a species, can't depend on entities like the Ashtar Command, etc to save us from this reality.

We have to face this reality head on.

We can't replenish our chakras and hope for the best. We all, myself included, must face the reality that we are going to perish sooner at the rate we are heading.

The human race must take responsibility for the actions it commits not only on Planet Earth, but out in space.

As much as I hate to say it, we need to unite but not in the way that TPTB wishes us to. Not by falling into another religious trap. Not by ignoring the reality of the situation with promises of ascension and gold and jewels.

We can do it. We've done it before.

We don't need Charles and the "cult of 11" either to accomplish it. We don't need David Wilcock, Alex Jones, Jesse Ventura, David Icke or Ben Fulford to tell us how to fix things. We just need to do it, everyday. Pay it forth. Uplift the human race with thoughts and actions of kindness.

To hell with the "prophets". We have never needed them.

Just a few thoughts. I cannot continue further due to the arthritis in my right hand.

[Tony]

Dear Humble Janitor,
I'm sorry about your hand.
I'm with you batman! Ideas, concepts, and beliefs can give you a glimpse of light, but then on gets consumed by the fire. You are right, take your candle and feel your way along. With a bit of luck you may find someone going in the same direction..for a while. Then you may meet some else who can give you some wax or a new wick. (Not a New Wick Order!)

The point is controlling ones own mind, and not have some one do it for you. Somehow I don't think groups work, I wish I were wrong.

We all meet in a dark passage smile say hello and good bye, left with the comforting thought, "At least there is some else in the dark with me."

[Humble Janitor]

I'm surprised at the lack of replies.

It reinforces my thought that Avalon has gone downhill ever since "Charles" showed up and people were asked to leave, etc.

[DoubleHelix]

The replies will come HJ, maybe just an odd posting time! I agree Avalon is going through a weird stage, call it the post-charles era... things will pick back up.

You've hit the nail smack bang on the head my friend, and this thread shares similarities to a thread I created a while ago - http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?23359-The-New-Age-Movement-TPTB-s-Silent-Killer

I really enjoyed your analysis and your absolutely right about New Age Movement, in my opinion it's one of the most effective diversions in the elites arsenal!

This movements infiltrated every forum on the www, and Avalon's no exception, we've got our fair share right here, right now. Am I suggesting we go on a witch hunt to weed out these types? absolutely not! but I would recommend each and every individual to look at the bigger picture here, we can't turn our back on this sh!t storm we've voluntarily or involuntarily got ourselves into.

[Lisab]

I agree humble and so do others here. Ascention/ rapture same horse different jockey. It's all about separation as opposed unity in my mind. Ifone rough post again sorry.

[PHARAOH]

Humble Janitor, you are on target. The new age movement has but one difference then other religious movements that train the sons and daughters of god to think of themselves as being worthless, born into sin and must look to repent for salvation in order to reunite with god upon death. The new age religion wants everyone to (idle-ly) stand by and do nothing about what we know to be going on because after all, energy waves are coming along with the E.T. races to save us. So why bother doing anything about what the evil ones do because you will just be delaying our salvation. Much like the major religions which teach us not to do anything about the events taking place in this day and time because to do anything other then (idol-ly) stand by and worship your savior, would delay the coming.

We MUST reclaim our birth rights as the rightful CARETAKERS of our planet and remove the evil, infectious virus that has taken a strangle hold of our mother earth, if we are to be victorious. "WE MUST ALL UNITE NOW!!! Failure to do so is not an option we can afford. IDOL/ IDLE worshipers is what they have made of humanity and it is time to be born again. Put on your armor of knowing and let your sword be truth! Disobey anyone or order which you KNOW to be unjust. Do not allow evil to exist in your presence and allow your inner light to shine forth and illuminate everyone within your presence. Become fishers of men, women and children. Build up your pyschic self defenses and prepare for battle. Re-member as above so below. Once upon a time there was a war in Heaven. In these last days and time the war will come here to earth. What will you do?

[Humble Janitor]

Well I've gained a greater distrust of authority and the usual bull**** that I was fed as a young adult.

I am 2 months away from turning 30 and it's never been more clear to me in so long.

It's rare that I can compose my thoughts in such a lucid manner.

[Tony]

All you need is not to doubt that you are intelligence and have a good heart, then nobody can pull the wool over your eyes.

[Jayke]

One of the more fringe theories I've heard about the New age movement is that it is most definitely the one world religion that the wannabe controllers of the world are trying to create. Apparantly, they're using their advanced knowledge of hyperdimensional physics and it's effects on conciousness to use this technology to capture the human mind and bind it to an egoless state of bliss...similar to the TV show 'V', where Anna the high commander can bliss all the aliens and get them to be docile slaves and do anything in the name of the queen.

It makes you wonder why there are so many people preaching about killing the ego to live in bliss, particularly when the alchemist St Germain states in his triangle book, which is a book about alchemy and immortality based on the ancient wisdom passed down from egypt, he says 'in order for the spirit to become immortal, the ego has to assilimilate every aspect of self', which means we take ownership of everything in ones reality, you have to develop a godly ego, rather than put it aside and be enslaved by bliss...Carl Jung was a student of alchemy and he used this principle to develop his work on the shadow self, which can be incredibly enlightening and transformational when applied to the self. The ancients knew that the ego was a divine gift and through it's perfected use the spirit could carry conciousness with it after death and become an immortal angel or as St Germain calls it in his book...to become a dragon.

Some people might consider alchemy to be part of the new age movement but taking into account it has roots that go all the way back to Egypt and beyond and it's principles form the basis of every religious or spiritual tradition that ever lasted the test of time I'm inclined to believe it's a genuine science regarding the potential of humanity. If everyone practiced alchemy and became a sovereign dragon immortal then the powers that be would just crumble away, any attempts to influence, misguide or create chaos would just get laughed at.

[Fred Steeves]

Hi Humble Janitor, sorry to hear about your arthritis, especially at your age. So anyway, being a man of science, do you believe in such things as (seemingly) miraculous events?


Cheers,
Fred


P.S. Mind you, I'm the one that loves to quote David Icke saying "the New Age movement is the last dead end before the gold mine". But, I'm also careful not to throw the baby out with the bath water.

[Curt]

I just wanted to share some of my thoughts that went through my head as I was working.

First of all, I truly believe that there are folks on here that are part of a "new age" religion. They believe strongly in concepts like ascension, foreign entities that will save us (more on this) and preparing for what's referred to as the awakening.

Second of all, the folks that I see as part of this new "religion" are folks who seem to attach on to concepts that have little or no scientific basis in my opinion (such as ascension, raising your vibrations, etc). It's true that there are always going to be good concepts within religion. My biggest beef yet is how these concepts are presented to both believers and non-believers.

Which brings me to my third thought: Is it possible that alphabet agencies conceived or have invaded this new age "religion" for the sole purpose of pushing the New World Order?

Think of it this way: The "Big 3" religions are no longer as powerful as they once were. One can argue that this applies strongly to Christianity, especially the Catholic and extreme right elements of this religion. If these religions dwindle in numbers, how can TPTB even hope to control the population?

Enter the new age deception and all the talk about ascension, etc. It's true that we will very well see an awakening of sorts but it will be a rude one if TPTB get their way.

You see, they are already hard at work at dividing you and I when their followers start to make assumptions about others and recommend alternate forms of treatment, etc that have not been proven. What better way to control the masses (again) by giving them false hope?

This is why I now have a hard time believing anyone that talks about 2012 as a time of catastrophe OR rebirth. If they are selling products or selling their own egos, they are either willingly or unwillingly doing the bidding for TPTB.

They are slowly preparing their followers for the "shucking and devouring" part that will most certainly come.

As these followers continue to push this agenda, they literally pave the way for the New World Order and not the Awakening that the human race needs.

As I type this, the arthritis in my right hand is flaring up, which is likely a good thing as I have a lot on my mind.

We as a species, can't depend on entities like the Ashtar Command, etc to save us from this reality.

We have to face this reality head on.

We can't replenish our chakras and hope for the best. We all, myself included, must face the reality that we are going to perish sooner at the rate we are heading.

The human race must take responsibility for the actions it commits not only on Planet Earth, but out in space.

As much as I hate to say it, we need to unite but not in the way that TPTB wishes us to. Not by falling into another religious trap. Not by ignoring the reality of the situation with promises of ascension and gold and jewels.

We can do it. We've done it before.

We don't need Charles and the "cult of 11" either to accomplish it. We don't need David Wilcock, Alex Jones, Jesse Ventura, David Icke or Ben Fulford to tell us how to fix things. We just need to do it, everyday. Pay it forth. Uplift the human race with thoughts and actions of kindness.

To hell with the "prophets". We have never needed them.

Just a few thoughts. I cannot continue further due to the arthritis in my right hand.

I tend to agree with you--especially as concerns total ego death. The New Age movement often has that as one of its main 'goals,' if you will. The idea doesn't sit right with me. It seems that the natural conclusion of everyone killing their egos would be for us all to turn into some smiling blissful Borg. I'd rather work on perfecting my ego, refining it, and perfecting myself through the process. It may be that the friction between ego when confronting 'the other' is essential for positive individual spiritual growth.

Certainly we can't have personal sovereignty without a real sense of 'person.' And isn't personal sovereignty what we're all looking for?

The day I don't have an ego (I mean, any ego at all) is the day I would stop caring, as an individual, what I can contribute to those around me. It would be like losing one's sex drive. It would be horrible. No thanks to ego death. It would be better to keep ego and to use it to learn and advance, to help one's self which would ultimately be beneficial to all.

[MoSh187]

I agree with you 100%... i have been saying this same thing in a lot of my posts. What set flags off for me about the new age religion is the concept that we will have to rid the world of people of low vibrational people in order for ascension and peace on earth to happen. Of course it's never said outright this way... but it's almost always alluded to. And the reason why their aren't very many replies... you have to think of other religious people, that are so caught up in their religion. they dare not question it.

[jesterking]

No thanks to ego death. It would be better to keep ego and to use it to learn and advance, to help one's self which would ultimately be beneficial to all.

I believe that if you were to read one of the books or watch the videos by eckart tolle you might have a better understanding of what the "ego" actually is. He teaches you how to silence the ego. The ego is part of you but it is not you, it is an entity of its own.

It exists to make sub-conscious decisions (instincts, or actions/reactions to things) those are the ones you often regret and wonder why you would do in the first place. Selfish are these because the ego serves only self. And also its there to make conscious suggestions (the voice in your head that you occasionally argue with) to persuade you to put yourself before others.

I believe without the ego we'd have alot more heros, volunteers, donors, saints, in general people would get along more because its usually the ego that causes conflict.

I see it like this----------the little devil on your one shoulder is the ego, and the little angel on your other is your conscience. The one who has the most influence is the one who has been fed the most, and they feed on the deeds that we do.

[RMorgan]

It´s simple. If you manage to put aside your ego, you´re schizophrenic.

Once a went to a psychiatric hospital for kids. There was a girl playing with a wooden horse a little bit violently, hitting the ground with it. Then, another young girl started to cry desperately, saying things like "please, make her stop, she´s hurting me!". That young girl was completely confused. She thought that the ground was indeed part of her, part of her self, and she was in pain for it.

You see, there´s a very thin line between being a monk, saying "you´re everything, and everything is you" and being a little schizophrenic girl, thinking the same thing.

Once you let go your ego, your self, you´re not an individual anymore, and you have no idea who you are. Then, it´s very easy for someone to start manipulating you.

Maybe all this new age stuff is about mass control indeed.

I really can´t believe how many self proclaimed "angels", "messengers of outer space" and "god´s reincarnation" can get a lot of followers.

That might be a possibility that one of these "Prophets" is real, but unfortunately, as I´ve said before on a topic here, all of them fail when we ask them to show proves, something concrete.

It shouldn´t be hard, you know, if you´re a reincarnation of Jesus, or something like that, to prove yourself. I mean, just go and walk over water with lots of people seeing you. Cure someone from a fatal disease, make a blind man see again! Go on and make Stephen Hawking walk again, with all due respect. Even Jesus (theoretically) have to prove himself several times!

Watch out guys...Religion is DANGEROUS and history proves it. It makes you loose your reason, which is one of the most powerful resources we have. It makes you loose freewill, as you let your decisions on the hands of an invisible, maybe nonexistent entity. It makes you loose your life, when you start believing you, alone, are insignificant and you must be ready to sacrifice yourself in the name of something "bigger".

Don´t ever let go on your intuition. It never lies. Every time during my life, when I started to get into religion, I doesn´t took long until my BS radar started to blink.

Trust me, the last thing you want is to cause such big conflicts in your psyche. When, as an individual, someone tries to make you think that you must let go your individuality, you´re causing a BIG conflict, maybe the biggest we can get, and sooner or later, you have a nervous breakdown.

Cheers,

Raf.

[gabbahh]

killing the ego to live in bliss Kill the False Ego, so that the true Self can develop. Unity in thought, heart and soul is the only unity You need. (And once you experience it, you will not want anything else.) No NWO/New World Religion, Above/Belove Unity for me please.

I came to this planet to experience this Physicality, this Spiritual Unity you all seem to be wanting exists outside this prison planet. You chose to live & to experience time, death, love.... , so you cannot be connected to Infinity, would not make sense. (Also would drive most of us insane) Would invalidate the experience. When you die, Unity awaits. New choices, new adventures. New experiences so that this Universe can grow.

I also believe a lot of us are "trapped" here, hence the prison planet. Karma is largely keeping us here.

My opinion, can't prove a thing.

See yall (on the other side)

Much Love, Ton

[Tony]

It's a battle between me1 and me2!

[gabbahh]

It's a battle between me1 and me2!
Sshhhh, I managed to silence me1 for now. Don't wake him up.

Oh Snap!

[ceetee9]

Nice post Humble. If anyone doubts the New Age movement, PA, or any other alternative thought organization/group hasn't been infiltrated, either directly or indirectly, by those who work for one or more of the alphabet soup agencies, they just haven't been paying attention. The PTB may be deranged, but they aren’t stupid.

Religions are nothing more than another form of (mind) control and serve only to divide us and keep us fighting and killing one another. The only uniting religions do is uniting like-minded people against anyone who don’t follow their prescribed belief system. A friend of mine recently turned me on to a book by Richard Dawkins titled “The God Delusion.” Although I don’t (currently) consider myself an atheist, Mr. Dawkins’ book presents some of the most intelligent, logical and cogent arguments against religions that I have read to date. I highly recommend reading this book. Question everything.

And if you'd like a glimpse of what the future will be like under the control of the NWO and/or New Age Religion, you needn’t look any further than the Twilight Zone episode "Number 12 Looks Just Like You." Marilyn sums it up in one sentence, "And the nicest part of all Val, I look just like you." (Rod Serling was a man way ahead of his time.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaVo2xifmSw

If we are to survive as a species, we must unite in our common goals and embrace our differences.

[DeDukshyn]

If TPTB are trying to "religiousize" something - think about what it is that they fear from that and need to control. There is something in that that scares the bejeezes out of them and they need to make a religion out of it so they can at the very least slow the progress of learning. This is how the Roman Catholic church was formed by TPTB at the time. It worked pretty well, they needed to control and reinterpret the words of one of the greatest teachers, to prevent those teachings from undoing their hold of power.

15 years ago "New Age" and "Religion" were opposites. Now, just look at this thread ... the religiousization by TPTB is in full swing ... ask yourself ... what is in this "New Age" thing that is so valuable to keep from us ... to get the answer you need to look at what was "New Age" ten or fifteen years ago and try to find what is being covered over these days as "New Age". You have to look at the processes, not events framed in a specific moment time to have understanding of this.

Sweeping the jewels along with the dirt under the rug is easier and besides, everyone else is doing it ... ;-)

[gabbahh]

Religion, the man in the middle.

The relationship between a human spirit and God is a personal one. Same as a relationship with another being. Religion provides us a man in the middle. Explaining to us how we should interpret this VERY personal message God has for you.
No such relationship can survive.

Just imagine that you are having a discussion with your best friend, and some strange dood in an apron comes by, telling you: No man, that's not what your friend really meant. He meant this:.....
Would you believe your friend, or that wierd dood?

For a long long time a lot of us went for that weird dood.

[Fred Steeves]

I believe that if you were to read one of the books or watch the videos by eckart tolle you might have a better understanding of what the "ego" actually is. He teaches you how to silence the ego. The ego is part of you but it is not you, it is an entity of its own.





I've read the Eckhart Tolle stuff, and pretty much all the other ego stuff in that aisle at the bookstore over the years. Not to mention just about everything else. So, I can only speak my own truth as understood thus far, which is well earned from thoroughly exploring many dead ends and fighting many losing battles.

What many people casually refer to as the ego, that MUST be silenced, is easily confused with the psychic center we all have, our intuition, our connection to all that is, our lifeline home. For what it's worth, I would just advise to be VERY cautious in the pursuit of this almighty silence, you just might attain it...


Cheers,
Fred

[RMorgan]

Besides, that´s nothing wrong about having an ego. Every healthy person does have one. It´s completely different than being EGOistic, or EGOcentric...

[GCS1103]

Great post Humble Janitor. I agree with you completely.

[Jayke]

In Zen they talk about people who have attained a state of silent ego bliss as people who have attained nirvana with remainder...the remainder, the extra step you need to take to complete the process of enlightenment is to return to the world and cultivate merit by developing an ego that is in alignment with the purity of gods will...teaching other people how to realise enlightenment so that they in turn may reconnect to the great spirit and start spreading their own joy in the world. Like an olympic flame, one flame ignites the next and keeps the light burning throughout the ages.

The way I look at it is that a heroin addict enjoys being spaced out in bliss, is that really the lifestyle I'd like to live by? not so much...ultimate joy for me comes from being alert, alive, awake and active, spending every moment sharing my passions with the world and embracing those things that bring you closer to your divine self. An ego aligned with possibility rather than the mundane reality that the government would have us believe life is all about. A soul on fire from the passions of life, burning brightly and lighting the path so that those who follow might tread the path in less darkness.

People like Eckhart tolle, they share alot of good information, they help people discover nirvana with remainder...yet you only have to look at his poor posture to know that his body is not filled with vibrancy and vitality, it's not filled with that intense divine spark like it would be if he had truly embraced the complete aspects of what it means to be enlightened. Enlightenment of the mind has to be complemented by enlightenment of the body to complete the physical and spiritual transformations that take place in the alchemy process, which is why there's such a strong emphasis on yoga and tai chi in the eastern traditions, even russian Sufi's have been doing prasara yoga for centuries and swing heavy tree branches around themselves way past they reach the age of 100 to keep themselves strong, youthful and full of life. It's only in the west that we've forgotten these principles and lost touch with the divine ways of our ancestors. Pythagoras is another enlightened master of old, supposedly the last ever person to attain enlightenment by going through the rituals within the great pyramid, even he was a champion wrestler in the olympic games back in Greece. People who aspire to have no ego tend to be far too timid and forgiving yet don't have the energy to inspire themselves to get out of the house and make an impact on the world IMO.

[DeDukshyn]

I believe that if you were to read one of the books or watch the videos by eckart tolle you might have a better understanding of what the "ego" actually is. He teaches you how to silence the ego. The ego is part of you but it is not you, it is an entity of its own.





I've read the Eckhart Tolle stuff, and pretty much all the other ego stuff in that aisle at the bookstore over the years. Not to mention just about everything else. So, I can only speak my own truth as understood thus far, which is well earned from thoroughly exploring many dead ends and fighting many losing battles.

What many people casually refer to as the ego, that MUST be silenced, is easily confused with the psychic center we all have, our intuition, our connection to all that is, our lifeline home. For what it's worth, I would just advise to be VERY cautious in the pursuit of this almighty silence, you just might attain it...


Cheers,
Fred

Haha -- I agree in general. And at the same time you don't know how many people I've had to convince that the voice in their head was their ego, and not their "higher self" or "inner guide". The voice we use to talk to ourselves and the voice that answers and responds are both the ego -it is tricky. I personally get around this problem by following this rule "If it speaks my language - it is restricted by that language, and thus has to be filtered through ego" - therefore has a good chance of being just more ego talk. Not everyone will agree with me but it works 100%. Inner guidance is quiet, and can't be heard while the dialogue of language is happening ... my 2 cents. ;) My intuition and gut instincts comes in real handy, as my higher self can directly communicate with me through those - you just have to be really sensitive to them.

[bitworm]

I agree with you 100%... i have been saying this same thing in a lot of my posts. What set flags off for me about the new age religion is the concept that we will have to rid the world of people of low vibrational people in order for ascension and peace on earth to happen. Of course it's never said outright this way... but it's almost always alluded to. And the reason why their aren't very many replies... you have to think of other religious people, that are so caught up in their religion. they dare not question it.

If you've never heard these before, they provide an extensive amount of background material into what could be behind it (particularly episode 7).
It's WIlliam Cooper 'Mystery Babylon' series of radio shows; Episode 7 Maitreya, he describes an agenda to establish a new religion and wipe others, particularly Christians off the earth.

They are from 1993 I believe:
http://www.archive.org/details/MysteryBabylonSeries-WilliamCoopertranscriptIncl

[Lefty Dave]

Greetings HJ
Appreciate your thoughts and feelings...I, too, must agree with much of what you have offered and will use your comments ...to help on my journey...(I do also appreciate the efforts of those mentioned above)...in helping me discern the real from the illusion...but, like you, I don't look for someone or thing or group that is going to 'save us all'...we'll correct our attitudes, behavior...or we will perish. Thanks again.
Blessings

[Humble Janitor]

Hi Humble Janitor, sorry to hear about your arthritis, especially at your age. So anyway, being a man of science, do you believe in such things as (seemingly) miraculous events?


Cheers,
Fred


P.S. Mind you, I'm the one that loves to quote David Icke saying "the New Age movement is the last dead end before the gold mine". But, I'm also careful not to throw the baby out with the bath water.

It depends on what you define as "miraculous events". Do I believe that people are physically going to ascend into the heavens? Nope. But, do I believe that levitation itself is possible? Sure, though that depends on the acquisition of anti-grav technology.

Not a scientist per se but I do place a lot of value on logic.

[jesterking]

http://www.livescience.com/1165-scientists-levitate-small-animals.html


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94KzmB2bI7s&feature=player_detailpage

levitation ..without anti-grav tech

[DeDukshyn]

Hi Humble Janitor, sorry to hear about your arthritis, especially at your age. So anyway, being a man of science, do you believe in such things as (seemingly) miraculous events?


Cheers,
Fred


P.S. Mind you, I'm the one that loves to quote David Icke saying "the New Age movement is the last dead end before the gold mine". But, I'm also careful not to throw the baby out with the bath water.

It depends on what you define as "miraculous events". Do I believe that people are physically going to ascend into the heavens? Nope. But, do I believe that levitation itself is possible? Sure, though that depends on the acquisition of anti-grav technology.

Not a scientist per se but I do place a lot of value on logic.

I would suggest you do a bit of study in quantum and vibrational physics, then skip over a bit into metaphysics where relevant. These sciences to me gave me a new understanding of reality, full of previously unbelievable possibilities. In music there are several of each of the notes along the octaves, each note the exact same note - the same tonal qualities, but different in the resolution or quality of the tone. A tone in a higher octave is of higher frequency - in a different vibrational context altogether than it`s lower vibrational counterpart - but there`s no mistake -the tone is the exactly same. It exists in more than one possible vibrational context.

Creation exist as the Nagual and the Tonal -- the potential, and the realized (real - ized). The Toltec word for reality is Tonal -- not an accident ...

Quantum physics tells us that all existence is merely a vibration of types - all atoms exist, then cease to exist, and set frequency, which brings about existence ... connect the dots ... ;) There`s way more to this than most of you are real -izing ... my 2 cents. ;)

[jesterking]

Originally Posted by Fred S.
Hi Humble Janitor, sorry to hear about your arthritis, especially at your age. So anyway, being a man of science, do you believe in such things as (seemingly) miraculous events?

Is your question about miraculous (seemingly) events in regards to illusion, or the type of events usually discussed here in avalon?

[Fred Steeves]

Originally Posted by Fred S.
Hi Humble Janitor, sorry to hear about your arthritis, especially at your age. So anyway, being a man of science, do you believe in such things as (seemingly) miraculous events?

Is your question about miraculous (seemingly) events in regards to illusion, or the type of events usually discussed here in avalon?


Ha, good question for all of us!!!

Our possibilities are only limited by our inspiration and imagination!!! Take that one to the bank brother.


Cheers,
Fred

[DeDukshyn]

Originally Posted by Fred S.
Hi Humble Janitor, sorry to hear about your arthritis, especially at your age. So anyway, being a man of science, do you believe in such things as (seemingly) miraculous events?

Is your question about miraculous (seemingly) events in regards to illusion, or the type of events usually discussed here in avalon?

Since Fred has already responded ... ;) I have come to the understanding that all miracles are merely the result of an accelerated learning. But in order for that to work you need to believe that everything is in it`s place and only there for the learning required. If you believe the universe is random and/or divine consciousness does not exist, then this won`t make sense. But if you do, and believe that we are here for learning, and the frame of that learning is TIME, then when an accelerated learning happens, the things within the frame are altered to reflect needed learning and nothing more - this creates what has been traditionally known as miracles ... but again .. just science, if you put it all in the right context. Advanced sciences -- regular human scientific principles ... but in the context of new philosophies ...

`Real`miraculous events are hard to come by ...

Is seeing a UFO a miraculous event? LOL no of course not, it just means you saw something unidentified by you.
Is seeing a ghost a miraculous event ... again, no just something unkown to your understanding.
Are magicians using miraculous events of illusion? .. no of course not, just tricks.

What defines a miraculous event? IMHO it is the abrupt correction of the timeframe of our universe due to an accelerated learning process .... I`m on the wrong thread for this aren`t I, LOL, where`s Greybeard when you need him lol, ;)

[DeDukshyn]

Besides, that´s nothing wrong about having an ego. Every healthy person does have one. It´s completely different than being EGOistic, or EGOcentric...

You don't know what the ego is Edit: [perhaps, in mch of the context]. ... generally, at Avalon when we speak of ego we are not talking about the psychiatric variation ...
Here's a great thread started by Greybeard - one of the more learned on the subject here at Avalon ... ;) Enjoy!

Edit: forgot the link .. LOL ... http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?860-Enlightenment-The-Ego-what-is-it-How-to-transcend-it.

[Carmilla5]

Hi guys
I could say I went through the New Age world many years ago, in fact before it became religionised, as someone said above. Yes it has become a business in its pure form, yet I see that much of it has opened sheeples eyes to something other than the physical, that's what it did for me ... well actually growing up as a Catholic did that, the rest came later. I questioned everything from a young age, looking at UFOs or whatever through binocs as a young girl believing in things that were not average or normal and this was in the 60s.

I don't wanna judge anything, just keep away from what doesn't feel right. Yeah I'm a girl so feelings/gut are what I go from. That's why I resonate with Project Avalon, a place where there's a mix of questions, scepticism, reality, belief, fact, spirituality all rolled into one. I am happy that people are waking up, about time, I feel more at home on this planet than I have for a very long time. Vive la revolution!

[9eagle9]

HJ

I can't give you a scientific throw out here but I can give you a rational place to ponder about spirituality---concepts that new age beliefs and religions have distorted to suit themselves.

There is a concept of light. Is light energy? Light can be converted into energy. Our bodies do it all the time. Light also means less dense or heavy. When something is less dense or less heavy its LIGHTER. We KNOW this.

When something becomes lighter it 'could' if the circumcstances arranged for, convert to something that is light enough to begin to rise (ascend). We KNOW this.

Take an aura if you've ever seen one . Its not a light around someone's body, its an area around someones body composed of less density than the bodies phyiscal mass. It has its own density but its light than say what your actual body is composed of. LIGHTER.

we are composed of electro magnetic energy. We are em in nature, our brains operated by em and so do our HEARTS. Any sort of energy conducts faster through something that is less dense. Lighter.
A drum skin vibrates through the energy of force when its struck. A table to which is denser not so much so. The less dense something is, the lighter it is, and vibrationation occurs more rapidly and strongly through it. These are things we KNOW or knew until someone decided to arrange it to suit themselves. Very emotional content such as weeping, sorrow, grieving, stress, etc..morbid sort of emotions like that are DENSE. Those are densities that should be broken down.

The less dense--LIGHTER-- something is the more energy can be felt. We KNOW this. Get the emo density out and your HEART FEELS LIGHTER.

Ascension means rising. WE KNOW this.


When you get lighter you could rise.if the conditions were right for it.

Your thoughts, consciousness, your personal vibration are lighter or less dense , or more.....it varies between people. This is 4d, your conciouness composition. It is not 3d, but it will have density. Dogma, beliefs, ect cause density of the 4d--the collective consciouness even. When we begin to break down that density, it gets LIGHTER you have more access to the 4d. But there's a whole bunch of density and false beliefs, and constructs there that have been projected by people into the collective. This is not a new idea. This can be observed if someone tweaks up their intuitive ability just a little. So if you don't know this you do have the means to find out for yourself. So when we start hacking away at our own density our own consciouness can RISE (ascend) from that.

Another inaccurately and distorted concept is DIMENSION. A dimension isn't a place. You can't come from a dimension. Dimensions are all around us we live in them, dwell in them like we live and dwell and are and have the 3d all around and in us. We don't clearly see other dimensions or are aware of them because some of us have not abated enough of their own personal 4D density to be able to because guess what...its all cluttered up with beliefs, dogma, and religions, new age and otherwise. Their lightter densitycan be expressed through any individual though who has done the necessary work to achieve that sort of thing. This is demonstrable. You can't see it, like gravity, but you can see the effects of those expressions. One first has to become very sensitive to slight variances in density energy is moving through by that time , but achieveable. Demonstrable even.

A dimension is a measurement.We KNOW this. We live in a 3 Dimensional world composed of length, heighth, depth. We KNOW this. Do you ever ponder if you came from planet length or dimension height. No. We don't. 4d is composed of more consciouness related density that we can't really measure to any degree of accuracy only to say its less dense than 3d. There' are level of less density where energy is moving fast because...things are less dense. Those levels are dimensions and you move through them the less dense your life, mind, consciouness etc becomes less dense--lighter--. One could say you are ascending through levels of less density...but who knows....maybe we do it sideways. There's dimensions to those levels that our own density does not yet let us percieve. Measurement is different, and we cannot quite grasp that because....we are so accustomed to perceiving only length, height, and depth. You lost some immediate density and you CAN begin to observe.

I hope you find this helpful , but its mostly composed of things we already knew...but those things we KNEW were a bit altered to serve someone elses purposes...












I just wanted to share some of my thoughts that went through my head as I was working.

First of all, I truly believe that there are folks on here that are part of a "new age" religion. They believe strongly in concepts like ascension, foreign entities that will save us (more on this) and preparing for what's referred to as the awakening.

Second of all, the folks that I see as part of this new "religion" are folks who seem to attach on to concepts that have little or no scientific basis in my opinion (such as ascension, raising your vibrations, etc). It's true that there are always going to be good concepts within religion. My biggest beef yet is how these concepts are presented to both believers and non-believers.

Which brings me to my third thought: Is it possible that alphabet agencies conceived or have invaded this new age "religion" for the sole purpose of pushing the New World Order?

Think of it this way: The "Big 3" religions are no longer as powerful as they once were. One can argue that this applies strongly to Christianity, especially the Catholic and extreme right elements of this religion. If these religions dwindle in numbers, how can TPTB even hope to control the population?

Enter the new age deception and all the talk about ascension, etc. It's true that we will very well see an awakening of sorts but it will be a rude one if TPTB get their way.

You see, they are already hard at work at dividing you and I when their followers start to make assumptions about others and recommend alternate forms of treatment, etc that have not been proven. What better way to control the masses (again) by giving them false hope?

This is why I now have a hard time believing anyone that talks about 2012 as a time of catastrophe OR rebirth. If they are selling products or selling their own egos, they are either willingly or unwillingly doing the bidding for TPTB.

They are slowly preparing their followers for the "shucking and devouring" part that will most certainly come.

As these followers continue to push this agenda, they literally pave the way for the New World Order and not the Awakening that the human race needs.

As I type this, the arthritis in my right hand is flaring up, which is likely a good thing as I have a lot on my mind.

We as a species, can't depend on entities like the Ashtar Command, etc to save us from this reality.

We have to face this reality head on.

We can't replenish our chakras and hope for the best. We all, myself included, must face the reality that we are going to perish sooner at the rate we are heading.

The human race must take responsibility for the actions it commits not only on Planet Earth, but out in space.

As much as I hate to say it, we need to unite but not in the way that TPTB wishes us to. Not by falling into another religious trap. Not by ignoring the reality of the situation with promises of ascension and gold and jewels.

We can do it. We've done it before.

We don't need Charles and the "cult of 11" either to accomplish it. We don't need David Wilcock, Alex Jones, Jesse Ventura, David Icke or Ben Fulford to tell us how to fix things. We just need to do it, everyday. Pay it forth. Uplift the human race with thoughts and actions of kindness.

To hell with the "prophets". We have never needed them.

Just a few thoughts. I cannot continue further due to the arthritis in my right hand.

[shijo]

The new age movement in the modern era seems to have started with Alice Bailey and Madame Blavatsky and their er ascended masters,beings living in the Himalayas looking out for the rest of us from some exalted position.It was bull**** then IMO and its worse now. The so called positivity of the love and light brigade is unfortunately one sided and biased and takes no account of how things really are, we cant escape from the Universe nor ultimately from our own darkness without dealing with it, but we can reach a position of inner security that transcends normal ego through spiritual practise and or intelligence.Sometimes here i feel im walking through a morass of ignorance and unprovable speculation, the opposite of wisdom, so great to see this thread.We must be on guard to dispel ignorance from our own being and help others do the same, painful but enlightening process.

[9eagle9]

The term spiritual or 'being' or becoming spiritual is distorted as well.

We are spirit and flesh. Physical and spiritual. You were born that way. You were born spiritual just as much as you were born physical. Its not something you have to 'become'. You already are. The trick is understanding what that means, not flogging one's self to step in to a spiritual role that you project and flog everyone with. . Its artificial and sort of a kick in the teeth to whom you really are. The first clue is they just can't ever let go of the topic of light, and spirituality---ever. Like a dog digging for a bone it can't get it and that basically sums it up. They can't get at it because of so many mind traps set.

If these people who assume these roles knew for just a moment how utterly boring they are in their 'spiritual' narcissism, that may be a a sort of egoistic trigger to actually delving into the reality of who they are and what they are composed of. The living spirit one that is allowed its true expression without artifical constructs or roles and density smothering it is a very intelligent, lively, proactive thing....an artificially contrived role is nothing compared to the authenticity of spirit.

[Curt]

In Zen they talk about people who have attained a state of silent ego bliss as people who have attained nirvana with remainder...the remainder, the extra step you need to take to complete the process of enlightenment is to return to the world and cultivate merit by developing an ego that is in alignment with the purity of gods will...teaching other people how to realise enlightenment so that they in turn may reconnect to the great spirit and start spreading their own joy in the world. Like an olympic flame, one flame ignites the next and keeps the light burning throughout the ages.

The way I look at it is that a heroin addict enjoys being spaced out in bliss, is that really the lifestyle I'd like to live by? not so much...ultimate joy for me comes from being alert, alive, awake and active, spending every moment sharing my passions with the world and embracing those things that bring you closer to your divine self. An ego aligned with possibility rather than the mundane reality that the government would have us believe life is all about. A soul on fire from the passions of life, burning brightly and lighting the path so that those who follow might tread the path in less darkness.

People like Eckhart tolle, they share alot of good information, they help people discover nirvana with remainder...yet you only have to look at his poor posture to know that his body is not filled with vibrancy and vitality, it's not filled with that intense divine spark like it would be if he had truly embraced the complete aspects of what it means to be enlightened. Enlightenment of the mind has to be complemented by enlightenment of the body to complete the physical and spiritual transformations that take place in the alchemy process, which is why there's such a strong emphasis on yoga and tai chi in the eastern traditions, even russian Sufi's have been doing prasara yoga for centuries and swing heavy tree branches around themselves way past they reach the age of 100 to keep themselves strong, youthful and full of life. It's only in the west that we've forgotten these principles and lost touch with the divine ways of our ancestors. Pythagoras is another enlightened master of old, supposedly the last ever person to attain enlightenment by going through the rituals within the great pyramid, even he was a champion wrestler in the olympic games back in Greece. People who aspire to have no ego tend to be far too timid and forgiving yet don't have the energy to inspire themselves to get out of the house and make an impact on the world IMO.

Thanks for this insight. This is really great.

[Belle]

Those things that lead us away from individuality toward conformity, away from our own personal power toward the idea that we need 'saving', away from examining the world objectively toward ignoring the ills by proclaiming it 'negative' and not worthy of focus should be a concern to all of us. It reeks of control tactics. It seeks to encourage us to voluntarily bypass our intellect and individuality for a fantasy scenario...we need do nothing but be positive and some cosmic entity will come and 'save' us from all the bad people. Ridiculous!

In the physical, we are all individuals capable of using our intellect to question all things and affect change through joining with other like-minded people until 'tipping point' is reached. In the spiritual, we are all one capable of creating the world of our unified choosing through opening ourselves to the Universal Consciousness where all knowledge resides. By becoming whole, we are amazingly powerful. In my opinion, that is what tptb fear the most, and will use any and all means at their disposal in order to divide us and bring us under their control.

[Curt]

Those things that lead us away from individuality toward conformity, away from our own personal power toward the idea that we need 'saving', away from examining the world objectively toward ignoring the ills by proclaiming it 'negative' and not worthy of focus should be a concern to all of us. It reeks of control tactics. It seeks to encourage us to voluntarily bypass our intellect and individuality for a fantasy scenario...we need do nothing but be positive and some cosmic entity will come and 'save' us from all the bad people. Ridiculous!

In the physical, we are all individuals capable of using our intellect to question all things and affect change through joining with other like-minded people until 'tipping point' is reached. In the spiritual, we are all one capable of creating the world of our unified choosing through opening ourselves to the Universal Unconsciousness where all knowledge resides. By becoming whole, we are amazingly powerful. In my opinion, that is what tptb fear the most, and will use any and all means at their disposal in order to divide us and bring us under their control.

Here! Here! I agree totally. Ego, is only one's sense of self, which one should seek to perfect, not eliminate. The idea that we can become godlike by eliminating ego is an odd one. Besides, who had more ego than Yahweh..."You shall have no other gods before me.." That's a prime example of ego in a deity! Kidding aside, though, I do understand where people are coming from when they say we should eliminate the negative aspects of ego--the selfishness, the cruelty, the total separateness from others. That is just sensible advice. But I go back to my original point: how can one achieve personal sovereignty without a sense of self--without healthy ego?

I think the debate on this thread has been wonderful, and I've learned a lot. I really appreciate everyone's contributions, and yours especially.

[Davy]

Humble Janitor, i agree with what you are saying, not to say that I do not believe we are eternal but it does seem there are those that are so reliant on being beemed up that they cant see the forest for the trees. Do I believe assension Well Im not so sure, But do I believe in actions yes! We have got to physically do things to prepare and tell others those that wait on assension and have not put back food or any other kind of survial items may be rudly awakened when all these conflicts intensify and they have nothing.

But for our Souls they are eternal and when we die than they will go where they need to go, i believe that part will happen no matter what we believe!

But what we can do is live today and do what we can physically to prepare for these Earthly disasters and pull together as human beings to help each other in time of real physical need and if assension happens then i say Great, but if it does not then those that have taken heed will be better prepared to face this time on Earth.