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View Full Version : Dual Citizenship -- Loyal to Whom?



ktlight
10th July 2011, 11:46
FYI:

"Can one imagine a Japanese citizen serving in the Pentagon during WWII? Or how about a citizen of the Soviet Union holding a cabinet position in the White House during the Cold War? ... While the Iraq War was waged on lies about Weapons of Mass Destruction and revenge for 911, the real reason has emerged as a well designed global plan to improve the power and leverage of Israel. Added to this policy is yet another potential blow to American interests and security -- the impending War with Iran. This war will be waged for the security of Israel and will be paid for by the blood of American soldiers and the hard-earned money of American citizens whose quality of life is inversely tied to the cost of petroleum."

Someone wrote and asked me, "Why are there Israeli- but not Mexican-American Dual Nationals?"

Well, here's my take on this. I'd also like your views and opinions.

Before I begin I'd like to day something important. There is a new law -- the so-called "Hate Speech" law, that just passed the House and is expected to pass the Senate and become law very soon. It was originally designed to guard against discrimination of oppressed minorities but was soon recognized as a way for Israel to forever end any criticism of the state of Israel and Zionism. When it is law, this page, and many like it will be deleted from the internet as yet another mile marker of the infringement of truth and free speech by certain dual-nationals at the expense of true and patriotic Americans. Enough said.

Unless we are Native American Indians, all Americans have their origins in some other country. Both of my parents were from England. They were proud to be "British" but they were most proud of achieving their American citizenship. Sure, we had pictures of the Queen and nick-nacks with the Union Jack on them. My mother even celebrated the traditional 4 o'clock tea time and was good at making Yorkshire Pudding. In the late 60's my older brother served in the US Army and did his tour in Viet Nam. When it came down to "allegiance," we were all patriotic Americans. Period.

The word "allegiance" means that we promise loyalty. It also carries with it the expectation that this loyalty will be exclusive and unrestrained. In the case of a declared war or real threat or conflict, for example, our allegiance to America should preclude any other interest, be it another country or political ideology.

When they took their oath to become American citizens, my parents had to pledge their "allegiance" exclusively to America and renounce their allegiance to "any and all foreign governments." That included Great Britain, one of our strongest allies.

Before Viewzone asked me to research the meaning of "dual citizenship," I had never heard of the term. How could someone be a citizen of two countries at the same time? But I was just ignorant. Dual nationalities and citizenships are quite common.

From my internet research, I learned that in 1997, a French Canadian with a U.S. passport ran for mayor of Plattsburgh, N.Y. He argued that the incumbent spoke French too poorly to be running a city so close to Quebec. He lost. Also in 1997, a retired top American official for the U.S. EPA (Environmental Protection Agency) ran for president of Lithuania. He was inaugurated in February to a burst of fireworks!

In 1996, Dominicans from New York not only could vote in the Dominican Republic's presidential elections for the first time, they could vote for a fellow New Yorker. Multiple nationalities have become so commonplace that some analysts fear the trend is undermining the notion of nationhood, particularly in the place with the most diverse citizenry on Earth: the United States.

Debate over the issue intensified in the late 1990s, when Mexico joined the growing list of poor nations that say it's OK for their nationals to be citizens of the countries to which they have migrated. Under the law that took effect in 1998 Mexicans abroad -- most of them in the United States -- will be able to retain Mexican citizenship even if they seek U.S. citizenship. And naturalized Americans of Mexican descent will be able to reclaim their original citizenship. The Mexican government stopped short, for now, of giving expatriates the right to vote.

Security Issues

Since citizenship carries with it a responsibility to be exclusively loyal to one country, the whole concept of dual citizenship and nationality raises questions about which of the dual citizenships have priority. This is extremely important when the two countries have opposing interests. It can be a deadly problem when a dual citizen is in a high position within our American government.

Can one imagine a Japanese citizen serving in the Pentagon during WWII? Or how about a citizen of the Soviet Union holding a cabinet position in the White House during the Cold War?

Today's conflicts are centered in the Middle East. America needs to balance foreign policies towards oil producing Arab nations with our goal being peace and stability in the region. This places a burdon on our government to be even-handed in our dealings with the Arab world and Israel. While the Iraq War was waged on lies about Weapons of Mass Destruction and revenge for 911, the real reason has emerged as a well designed global plan to improve the power and leverage of Israel. Added to this policy is yet another potential blow to American interests and security -- the impending War with Iran. This war will be waged for the security of Israel and will be paid for by the blood of American soldiers and the hard-earned money of American citizens whose quality of life is inversely tied to the cost of petrolium.

Recently, in their much lauded paper, The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy, Harvard professor, Stephen Walt, and University of Chicago professor, John Mearsheimer, focused attention on the strong Israeli lobby which has a powerful influence over American foreign policies (see BBC article). They detail the influence that this lobby has exerted, forming a series of international policies which can be viewed as in direct opposition to the interests and security of the American people. These acts and policies are more often than not carried out by US government appointees who hold powerful positions and who are dual American-Israeli citizens. Since the policies they support are often exclusively beneficial to Israel, often to the detriment of America, it has been argued that their loyalties are misdirected.

A few classic examples can be cited here.

Jonathan Jay Pollard [right] was an American-Israeli citizen who worked for the US government. He is well known because he stole more secrets from the U.S. than has any other spy in American history. During his interrogation Pollard said he felt compelled to put the "interests of my state" ahead of his own. Although as a U.S. Navy counter-intelligence specialist he had a top-secret security clearance, by "my state" he meant the state of Israel.

Literally tens of thousands of Americans holding U.S. passports admit they feel a primary allegiance to the state of Israel. In many instances, these Americans vote in Israeli elections, wear Israeli uniforms and fight in Israeli wars. Many are actively engaged both in the confiscation of Palestinian lands and in the Israeli political system. Three examples come to mind:

One is Rabbi Meir Kahane, who founded the militant Jewish Defense League in the U.S. in the 1960s, then emigrated to Israel where, eventually, he was elected to the Knesset. Until he was shot and killed at one of his U.S. fund-raising rallies in 1990, the Brooklyn-born rabbi shuttled between Tel Aviv and New York, where he recruited militant American Jews for his activities in Israel against Palestinians. He claimed to be a "dual citizen" of America and Israel.

Another Jewish American, James Mahon from Alexandria, Virginia, reportedly was on a secret mission to kill PLO Chairman Yasser Arafat when he was shot in 1980 by an unknown assailant. When he was shot, Mahon held an American M-16 in his hand and a U.S. passport in his pocket.

Then there was Alan Harry Goodman, an American Jew who left his home in Baltimore, Maryland, flew to Israel and served in the Israeli army. Then, on April 11, 1982, armed with an Uzi submachine gun, he walked, alone, to Al-Aqsa, Jerusalem's most holy Islamic shrine, where he opened fire, killing two Palestinians and wounding others. Both the U.S. and Israeli governments played down the incident, as did the media.

Most recently, US Navy Petty Officer, Ariel J. Weinmann, while serving at or near Bahrain, Mexico, and Austria, "with intent or reason to believe it would be used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of a foreign nation (Israel), [attempted] to communicate, deliver or transmit classified CONFIDENTIAL and SECRET information relating to the national defense, to a representative, officer, agent or employee of a foreign government." Weinmann was apprehended on March 26 after being listed as "a deserter by his command," according to the US Navy. The information he gathered was supplied to Israel.

Ben-Ami Kadish, a Connecticut-born U.S. dual citizen who worked in New Jersey was arrested and charged with giving top secret nuclear information and details about the US Patriot Missile to an Israeli agent -- the same agent involved with the Jay Pollard case. The espionage charges reportedly stem from acts committed in the 1980s. These activities, like the ones with convicted spy Pollard, were immediately denied by Israel (Pollard pleaded guilty in 1986). It is further reported that Israeli officials instructed Kadish to lie to US investigators. Kadish was scheduled to be arraigned on April 22, 2008 at U.S. District Court in Manhattan.

source to read more
http://beforeitsnews.com/story/795/397/Dual_Citizenship_--_Loyal_to_Whom.html=

phillipbbg
10th July 2011, 11:59
It does not matter how many little books you have from any piece of the land mass on Earth..... we are all people of the Earth....

You can't see any boarders from Space..... ever wondered why? As for prejudice, anyone with red blood is of my kind.... it is as simple as that....

My responsibility is to the Earth not the two countries I have little books for....

mosquito
10th July 2011, 12:15
I don't generally like people who quote Dr.Johnson, but for o nce in my life I'm going to .........

"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel"

As the previous post states, we are all people of the Earth, I'm a citizen of the Earth and the silly little book I carry is irrelevant. If I choose to carry 2 or 3, I will, regardless of who likes it or dislikes it.

I'm loyal to myself and to universal law. I AM NOT loyal to a country (UK) which has betrayed its' priniples, which betrays those who it claims to protect (the Palestinians are only 1 example), which makes a mockery of justice and which supports state-sponsored terrorism. I could go on.

If the human race is ever to evolve, flag-waving, tub-thumping, moronic patriotism needs to be consigned to the bin

Lord Sidious
10th July 2011, 12:41
I don't generally like people who quote Dr.Johnson, but for o nce in my life I'm going to .........

"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel"

As the previous post states, we are all people of the Earth, I'm a citizen of the Earth and the silly little book I carry is irrelevant. If I choose to carry 2 or 3, I will, regardless of who likes it or dislikes it.

I'm loyal to myself and to universal law. I AM NOT loyal to a country (UK) which has betrayed its' priniples, which betrays those who it claims to protect (the Palestinians are only 1 example), which makes a mockery of justice and which supports state-sponsored terrorism. I could go on.

If the human race is ever to evolve, flag-waving, tub-thumping, moronic patriotism needs to be consigned to the bin

The actual quote is ''To enrich oneself in the service of one's country is the last refuge of a scoundrel'' so this guy you speak of must have changed it.

mosquito
11th July 2011, 03:42
OK, so who was the original speaker ?
Dr Samuel Johnson is widely accredited with the quote I mentioned. I did actually check it before posting.

Anchor
11th July 2011, 03:53
If the human race is ever to evolve, flag-waving, tub-thumping, moronic patriotism needs to be consigned to the bin

Along with every other kind of behavioral 'ism you can name.

Lord Sidious
11th July 2011, 06:43
OK, so who was the original speaker ?
Dr Samuel Johnson is widely accredited with the quote I mentioned. I did actually check it before posting.

I don't know, I read it that long ago.

mosquito
13th July 2011, 11:47
I don't know, I read it that long ago.


So let me get this right ...

1 - I post an authentic quote
2 - You reply, "correcting" me,
3 - I ask for clarification on who said it first
4 - You say "I don't know"

Which means that your post, "correcting" me actually failed dismally to do so as you had absolutely no idea whose quotation it is you posted, nor presumably when they were alive.
And you're a lawyer ????????????????????????????????????????????

Lord Sidious
13th July 2011, 12:15
So let me get this right ...

1 - I post an authentic quote
2 - You reply, "correcting" me,
3 - I ask for clarification on who said it first
4 - You say "I don't know"

Which means that your post, "correcting" me actually failed dismally to do so as you had absolutely no idea whose quotation it is you posted, nor presumably when they were alive.
And you're a lawyer ????????????????????????????????????????????

Your point is what?
So the net says x said y.
Does that make it correct?
How many different things have you seen in your life that you can't recall the whole picture of?

mosquito
15th July 2011, 11:08
[
Your point is what?
So the net says x said y.
Does that make it correct?
How many different things have you seen in your life that you can't recall the whole picture of?

Innumerable.

My point is simply that Samuel Johnson's quote is authentic, it has absolutely nothing to do with the internet, a tool which I used in order to confirm his exact words.
If you wish to correct me, feel free to do so (I've actually said this on plenty of my posts), but do so properly - first of all, establish the veracity of your view, then post accordingly. If you don't know, then maybe a more suitable reply would have been along the lines of ..... "I'm not sure, but I believe X actually said "....." prior to Johnson".

Marsila
15th July 2011, 11:14
away from all this bickering about who said what exactly and when, i agree that the little book that says your are from here or there is irrelevant. anyway in the past few decades it is not longer about citizenship that book, as much as about better life opportunities and easier travel for some.
if everyone is just good and respectful to everyone around them no trouble questioning loyalty would happen. unfortuatley those who have the power to control other people's lives are the one's that cause trouble and then want us to fight among ourselves and choose "sides"...so its just safer to be loyal to other humans who do no one harm regardless of their label.

Lord Sidious
15th July 2011, 11:36
Innumerable.

My point is simply that Samuel Johnson's quote is authentic, it has absolutely nothing to do with the internet, a tool which I used in order to confirm his exact words.
If you wish to correct me, feel free to do so (I've actually said this on plenty of my posts), but do so properly - first of all, establish the veracity of your view, then post accordingly. If you don't know, then maybe a more suitable reply would have been along the lines of ..... "I'm not sure, but I believe X actually said "....." prior to Johnson".

Whatever floats your boat nugget.
Your assumption is that the quote you mention is the original as you cant find my quote, well guess what?
I haven't been able to find quite a few things on the net, this being one of them.
That doesn't mean I am right or wrong.

ThePythonicCow
15th July 2011, 11:45
:focus: :cow:

mosquito
16th July 2011, 14:59
Innumerable.

My point is simply that Samuel Johnson's quote is authentic, it has absolutely nothing to do with the internet, a tool which I used in order to confirm his exact words.
If you wish to correct me, feel free to do so (I've actually said this on plenty of my posts), but do so properly - first of all, establish the veracity of your view, then post accordingly. If you don't know, then maybe a more suitable reply would have been along the lines of ..... "I'm not sure, but I believe X actually said "....." prior to Johnson".

Whatever floats your boat nugget.
Your assumption is that the quote you mention is the original as you cant find my quote, well guess what?
I haven't been able to find quite a few things on the net, this being one of them.
That doesn't mean I am right or wrong.

No actually !!!!!! My assumption is that the quote I posted is original and YOU can't find the evidence that I'm wrong !!!

Look at my last post - I'm inviting you to correct me, but you can't !!!!!

The point of my original post is that "patrriotism" is not a very intelligent human trait. What have you actually contributed to this thread ? All you've done is attempt to show yourself to be more intelligent and failed...........

mosquito
16th July 2011, 15:03
And yes, it would be nice to get back on topic wouldn't it, but just as so often happens on Avalon, someone has to play "smart arse" and the point of discussion gets lost.

Lord Sidious
16th July 2011, 15:04
Innumerable.

My point is simply that Samuel Johnson's quote is authentic, it has absolutely nothing to do with the internet, a tool which I used in order to confirm his exact words.
If you wish to correct me, feel free to do so (I've actually said this on plenty of my posts), but do so properly - first of all, establish the veracity of your view, then post accordingly. If you don't know, then maybe a more suitable reply would have been along the lines of ..... "I'm not sure, but I believe X actually said "....." prior to Johnson".

Whatever floats your boat nugget.
Your assumption is that the quote you mention is the original as you cant find my quote, well guess what?
I haven't been able to find quite a few things on the net, this being one of them.
That doesn't mean I am right or wrong.

No actually !!!!!! My assumption is that the quote I posted is original and YOU can't find the evidence that I'm wrong !!!

Look at my last post - I'm inviting you to correct me, but you can't !!!!!

The point of my original post is that "patrriotism" is not a very intelligent human trait. What have you actually contributed to this thread ? All you've done is attempt to show yourself to be more intelligent and failed...........

The only smart arse in this thread is you, my friend.
And I don't have a need to prove anything to anyone, as you would know, IF you knew me.