Writing on water.

[Tony]

Writing on water.

Can we measure wakefulness? This will depend on what is meant by wakefulness. On this post wakefulness is meant as primordial purity free from elaborations. Open space, calm and at rest. This is our gauge. Any ideas held in this space only serve to freeze us into a dream-like state. So in varying degrees we are asleep to awake. It is up to (us) to recognise this, then we can adjust our attitude and intention. There is no self criticism involved here, as human beings we are sometime too tight, and sometimes too loose. We are not enlightened yet, we just have that potential.

The purpose of meditation is to liberate these thoughts and emotions, which is the cause of suffering for oneself and those around.

So yes, one can measure ones wakefulness by observing ones own mind if thoughts and emotions are lingering or not, and this is very helpful. We have to be able to recognise the difference between pure perception and self-deception, which is going on all time. To understand this one doesn't have to have an great deal of knowledge or be very educated.

When a situation arises and if dealt with within primordial pure open space, then that is like writing on water - leaving no trace. Things just come to pass.

If there is a residue of thoughts lingering, this space, becomes occupied, which only serves to puts us back into a self created illusory dream-world. There is no competition here, we all oscillate in and out of reality. Though to be honest, we do spend most of our time asleep in our familiar self created dream-world.

We have to recognise that we are only partially awake, therefore our views are partial. Partial meaning biased. For most of our life, our concern is about me and my enlightenment, “It's all about me!” To be totally awake there can be no me. Me, being a identity we claim for ourselves, which is easy to be aroused in righteous anger. The is also a measuring device.

One hears the claim, “We are the creator.” The creator of what? An illusion! To be awake or enlightened, one has to be totally liberated, but first one has to know how to liberate thoughts, emotions.

Claiming is what the ego is all about. Seeking individual liberation is flawed, it lacks unity. Unity is love. The word love is much misused. It is more than a word, it has meaning, and the meaning has to be meant. Spirituality is all about recognising the self-deception world we live in - getting out of the dream, not living it! If we have strong ideas about 'me' and my knowledge this only helps to creates a conceptual self. Which can easily be manipulated by others, this is what is going on here, in the world, now!

For ordinary people thoughts and emotion arise in the mind and they just react, for them it is what life is all about. They have absolutely no control, they assume that is the only way to live. In the early stages of meditation we try to cut through these thoughts and emotions, or find antidotes. But these thoughts and emotions still arise as an enemy to purity. So shamata meditation is the first step (watching the breath).

Gradually we find a gap in the thoughts and that space expands. It is here that we have to be aware of a vacancy or oblivion taking place (spacing out). We find that we have become too loose. The Buddha spoke of not too lose and not too tight. So our enemies are dullness (vacancy) and excitement (being occupied).


In meditation one has to have an immobile body, clear mind and sense wide open.
When one advances in meditation, one comes to non-meditation. Here we rest in merely being, there is just space - empty cognisant space. Here thoughts are allowed to arise because they just an expression of that space. Emptiness and thought become a unity. It is not thinking, just appearances arising, which are naturally freed upon arising. In expressing there is a slight ego present, a mere I.

From time to time one goes back to basic meditation practices, so no fixations take place.

The danger is clinging to any experience, this attracts our inner and outer demons. That is why we are told to simply let be. If we cling to stillness or nowness we engage in idiot meditation. Many yogis where found in caves in Tibet when the Chinese invaded were stuck in a state of perpetual suspension, not dead and not truly alive. For those with an appetite for such information, when their stomachs were cut open they found a gunpowder substance. When advanced practitioners die and they achieve what is called the rainbow body, all that remains are teeth and nails.

Once one knows that still inner centre, then being out of it simply becomes a reminder. Gradually our thoughts will be like drawing on water leaving no trace. Then we may be ready for the next stage – the thief entering an empty house.

In the mean time there is much laundry to be washed.


(This is from a Tibetan buddhist perspective, I am only a student.)

[Lord Sidious]

Hey, erm, pinealnugget, you forgot to number your thread?
You're not getting forgetful are you?
Or maybe you are, but don't remember? :p

[Davidallany]

Lool, lordy, I had exactly the same realization. The force is strong with you today!
Tony what a wonderful thread, indeed. Keep it echoing.

[phillipbbg]

Strange ... I have always thought that water is the memory storage device of nature... so writing on water is occurring at every moment of every instant of all that is present... still I do agree with all that has been written above in a mindful way...

[shijo]

what a wonderful line Tony,"Once one knows that still inner centre, then being out of it simply becomes a reminder".The word Nam means ultimately to return.To return to what? Ah thats for another thread, regards Shijo.

[DeDukshyn]

Strange ... I have always thought that water is the memory storage device of nature... so writing on water is occurring at every moment of every instant of all that is present... still I do agree with all that has been written above in a mindful way...

In support of your post ...
Water is a liquid crystal, crystals can send, receive and store high frequncy vibrations from radiowaves, to etheral energy. I made a crystal radio once with a quartz tuner that required no power source (you had to use an earpiece to hear it though). The quartz tuner drew the radio waves out of the air and transmitted the signal to the earpiece loud enough to be heard without amplification. Crystals are really quite good at these types of things - this is something everyone should know (energy qualities of crystals).

[phillipbbg]

Strange ... I have always thought that water is the memory storage device of nature... so writing on water is occurring at every moment of every instant of all that is present... still I do agree with all that has been written above in a mindful way...

In support of your post ...
Water is a liquid crystal, crystals can send, receive and store high frequncy vibrations from radiowaves, to etheral energy. I made a crystal radio once with a quartz tuner that required no power source (you had to use an earpiece to hear it though). The quartz tuner drew the radio waves out of the air and transmitted the signal to the earpiece loud enough to be heard without amplification. Crystals are really quite good at these types of things - this is something everyone should know (energy qualities of crystals).

Also do the terms Polycrystalline, Mono-crystalline, Micromorphic etc sound familiar? they are all types of solar panel silicon's and all using crystalline properties and substances.... also if you want to understand more about the properties of water check this site out.. http://www.masaru-emoto.net/

[Tarka the Duck]

Strange ... I have always thought that water is the memory storage device of nature... so writing on water is occurring at every moment of every instant of all that is present... still I do agree with all that has been written above in a mindful way...

In support of your post ...
Water is a liquid crystal, crystals can send, receive and store high frequncy vibrations from radiowaves, to etheral energy. I made a crystal radio once with a quartz tuner that required no power source (you had to use an earpiece to hear it though). The quartz tuner drew the radio waves out of the air and transmitted the signal to the earpiece loud enough to be heard without amplification. Crystals are really quite good at these types of things - this is something everyone should know (energy qualities of crystals).

Also do the terms Polycrystalline, Mono-crystalline, Micromorphic etc sound familiar? they are all types of solar panel silicon's and all using crystalline properties and substances.... also if you want to understand more about the properties of water check this site out.. http://www.masaru-emoto.net/


At the risk of sounding pedantic, I think the "writing on water" thing is a metaphor for thoughts vanishing without leaving a trace...

Best wishes
Tarka

[phillipbbg]

Strange ... I have always thought that water is the memory storage device of nature... so writing on water is occurring at every moment of every instant of all that is present... still I do agree with all that has been written above in a mindful way...

In support of your post ...
Water is a liquid crystal, crystals can send, receive and store high frequncy vibrations from radiowaves, to etheral energy. I made a crystal radio once with a quartz tuner that required no power source (you had to use an earpiece to hear it though). The quartz tuner drew the radio waves out of the air and transmitted the signal to the earpiece loud enough to be heard without amplification. Crystals are really quite good at these types of things - this is something everyone should know (energy qualities of crystals).

Also do the terms Polycrystalline, Mono-crystalline, Micromorphic etc sound familiar? they are all types of solar panel silicon's and all using crystalline properties and substances.... also if you want to understand more about the properties of water check this site out.. http://www.masaru-emoto.net/


At the risk of sounding pedantic, I think the "writing on water" thing is a metaphor for thoughts vanishing without leaving a trace...

Best wishes
Tarka

Its OK I think we all get it...LOL it is a sweet metaphor and well taken, just could not resist increasing people's awareness of water... Forgive me Tarka :yield:

[DeDukshyn]

Strange ... I have always thought that water is the memory storage device of nature... so writing on water is occurring at every moment of every instant of all that is present... still I do agree with all that has been written above in a mindful way...

In support of your post ...
Water is a liquid crystal, crystals can send, receive and store high frequncy vibrations from radiowaves, to etheral energy. I made a crystal radio once with a quartz tuner that required no power source (you had to use an earpiece to hear it though). The quartz tuner drew the radio waves out of the air and transmitted the signal to the earpiece loud enough to be heard without amplification. Crystals are really quite good at these types of things - this is something everyone should know (energy qualities of crystals).

Also do the terms Polycrystalline, Mono-crystalline, Micromorphic etc sound familiar? they are all types of solar panel silicon's and all using crystalline properties and substances.... also if you want to understand more about the properties of water check this site out.. http://www.masaru-emoto.net/


At the risk of sounding pedantic, I think the "writing on water" thing is a metaphor for thoughts vanishing without leaving a trace...

Best wishes
Tarka

A bit off topic, yes, but like Phillip said, it's hard to resist the oppurtunity to expand on the topic of water. With what you wrote above, I would agree, and then add that that writing on water doesn't vanish without a trace completely, the words vanish, but the effects of writing them spread out across the water in the form of its ripples - influencing the entire body of water. I think this is a far more accurate metaphor to view words and "spelling" -- (anyone ever wonder why the same word is used to describe an act of magik, and an act of forming written constructs? - no accident, think about it).

[Tony]

Perhaps I should explain the metaphor. There are traditionally three ways to liberate thoughts.

The first is, on seeing a piece of rope in a dark corner, and mistaking it for a snake. Which means we have made an assumption about something which is no true. So ones thoughts on investigation have no reality.

The second is like drawing on water. One perceives a thought in the mind, but does not hold on the it, therefore the thought dissolves upon arising, leaving no trace.

The third is like a thief entering an empty house, there is nothing there to protect, thoughts are spontaneously self liberated.

[ktlight]

Strange ... I have always thought that water is the memory storage device of nature... so writing on water is occurring at every moment of every instant of all that is present... still I do agree with all that has been written above in a mindful way...

In support of your post ...
Water is a liquid crystal, crystals can send, receive and store high frequncy vibrations from radiowaves, to etheral energy. I made a crystal radio once with a quartz tuner that required no power source (you had to use an earpiece to hear it though). The quartz tuner drew the radio waves out of the air and transmitted the signal to the earpiece loud enough to be heard without amplification. Crystals are really quite good at these types of things - this is something everyone should know (energy qualities of crystals).

water also has a skin.

[Tony]

We become fascinated by outer phenomena and fascinated by inner mental appearances. This of course is interesting, and being conscious of outer and inner aspects of existence, is important to function in a body. What this post is about is the inner most consciousness.

All appearances are an obscuration to inner-most consciousness, because they obscure the awareness of awareness, the pure being, emptiness of emptiness.

This is how we can self-calibrate, noticing the various levels of consciousness. No one can do this for us, because we would be relying on an external reference. When one realises for oneself ones true inner being, true confidence will arise.

In the moment of true consciousness nothing can be said. One has to come down a little, to express it in words. It is possible to express within pure consciousness, but there would be no attitude at all.

[Tony]

The parts that make up me.

Psychological components of the ego-centred state (me), in Sanskrit are called the five skandas. They are the parts that make up the whole self picture. Being able to see how the picture is built, makes it easier to just note it and be released. However this sequence happens very quickly so goes unnoticed. Maybe think of it as concentric circles around the essence.

The first outer circle is Form (rupa), this is the beginning of individual separate existence, me and other, subject and object. This is primitive self-awareness of an eternal world seen through the five senses.

As soon as that happens, this self reacts to its surroundings, this is the second stage of Feeling (vedana). It is not yet a fully developed emotion, just an instinctive liking, disliking or indifference. Immediately it grows more complicated as the feeling of a centralised entity asserts itself by reacting not only passively but actively.

The third stage is perception (samjnsa) is our perceptual identification prior to thinking.

The fourth component is concept or karmic formation (samskara). This is labelling or interpreting covering the activity with the intellect and emotions.

The fifth is consciousness (vijnana). This is the territorial field of awareness. The self has become a complete universe of its own, instead of perceiving the world as it is, it projects its own image all around it.

This is how we spend our time throughout life, believing all these impulses are us. This is how we create a solid world. But it also reveals that there is no solid “I” as it is made up of parts. All these parts have to come together is create an illusion of a whole.

We spend all our time maintaining or clinging to these parts to prove we exist. This creates all our suffering.

It is the same with all phenomena. Take car, we call it a car when all the parts are assembled. If we take the wheels off, it no longer functions as a car. When we strip away all the part what are we left with? When we strip away relative truth, we find absolute truth.

The true nature of self and phenomena is empty of any true existence. Emptiness (shunyata). Even the idea of emptiness is emptiness. This is absolute truth.

However to manifest in the universe it has to be united with consciousness, relative truth.
The outcome is a knowing quality of compassion. The path of the middle way is not being caught by samsara or nirvana.

( I was eating breakfast, doing nothing just munching away. My attention was taken to something just out of my vision… I looked to the right and saw a shimmering…then smoke…ah toast!…it’s burning…my toast! That formed the concentric circle idea of the skanda. I went to my lama and asked, “The moment I noticed the movement, was that pure mind?” “No” He answered. “Oh” I said. “What were you doing just before?” he enquired. “Nothing.” I said. “That was it.” He said.)

[Mad Hatter]

Thanks for yet another nice paradox for me to get my head round!!

If you are saying 'pure' mind equals nothing then does not logic dictate that 'impure' mind must equal everything...

or could that be viewed as absolute truth does not exist and anything else is a lie?

Hmmm...perhaps I should not have eaten the toast :p

[Tony]

Thanks for yet another nice paradox for me to get my head round!!

If you are saying 'pure' mind equals nothing then does not logic dictate that 'impure' mind must equal everything...

or could that be viewed as absolute truth does not exist and anything else is a lie?

Hmmm...perhaps I should not have eaten the toast :p

Please don't talk about toast....I'm trying to get off carbohydrates!
Pure mind is not nothing, but merely empty and knowing, and of course lots of love for Mad Hatter!
Impure mind equals everything else ...yes!!!!
Impure meaning, believing everything to be solid or real. This is the bases of ignorance. ...not knowing.

The point that absolute truth not existing, is interesting. One cannot say it does and one cannot say it does not.
There are 14 questions the Buddha would not answer, and I think that is one of them!!!!

I suppose it's then up to us to find out. Perhaps it's like asking someone if you are conscious...only you can know.


Why is toast so good?

[Mad Hatter]

Perhaps it's like asking someone if you are conscious...only you can know.
Would that not be the same as consciousness generating reality in order to ask itself what it is?

Which begs the question...has consciousness ever lied to itself :confused:

Why is toast so good? Let see...

Toast and marmalade
Toast and jam
Toast and peanut butter
Toast and bannana
Toast and vegemite
Toast and marmite
Toast and egg
Toast and bacon
Toast and butter
No paradox there...

Sorry...better go to bed now...:p

[phillipbbg]

Ah ha a vegemite man not a marmite man............. you are one of us... :peace:

[Jayke]

Paradox's are just a trick of the rational mind. A coin has head and tails yet its still just one coin.

It's only the rational mind that sees things in term of opposites, the subconscious, higher self or whatever you want to call it sees things in terms of possibility.

Instead of asking what's the opposite of pure...try asking yourself what's not pure? When you ask what the opposite of something is your subconscious only responds with one answer...when you ask it what something isn't, your subconscious can come up with an infinite list of possibilities...this is how everything arises from nothing. You can remain in pure nothing awareness yet anything can be born from that nothingness, the moment you associate with that something then that's when the impure mind starts to weave it's illusions.

[Davidallany]

We often forget that the five senses are not giving us the real picture. Meditation helps us remember, beside other things as we go higher. Our lord and overseers are counting on us playing the game of the five senses so that we may maintain the human dream for their benefit.