Caught Someone Looking During Meditation

[Moemers]

Friday afternoon I was meditating and suddenly an eye appeared in front of me, centered, staring back.

I couldn't tell you the color of it, but it was set against an all black background, and it was just a single eye, staring at me, unblinking.

It FELT organic, but it also felt like technology.

It also stunned me and my mind couldn't do anything to further examine it - when I tried to move around it, it just stopped me and kept staring.

The only thing I could do - ask what it was and what it wanted - I did, and got no answer, although it looked like I kind of shook it's confidence.

Does anyone have any idea what this is?

[ghostrider]

go again , remember you are infinite............. if you're seeing shapes and colors and tones you are touching the higher self.

[Davidallany]

Omnivers may have an answer, since he's been exposed to AI.

[goldmother]

Friday afternoon I was meditating and suddenly an eye appeared in front of me, centered, staring back.

I couldn't tell you the color of it, but it was set against an all black background, and it was just a single eye, staring at me, unblinking.

It FELT organic, but it also felt like technology.

It also stunned me and my mind couldn't do anything to further examine it - when I tried to move around it, it just stopped me and kept staring.

The only thing I could do - ask what it was and what it wanted - I did, and got no answer, although it looked like I kind of shook it's confidence.

Does anyone have any idea what this is?

Could it be your own third eye that you are seeing sometimes while meditating I have had the same experience, its just a thought

[goldmother]

SORRY having a human moment :der:

[Bryn ap Gwilym]

Friday afternoon I was meditating and suddenly an eye appeared in front of me, centered, staring back.

I couldn't tell you the color of it, but it was set against an all black background, and it was just a single eye, staring at me, unblinking.

It FELT organic, but it also felt like technology.

It also stunned me and my mind couldn't do anything to further examine it - when I tried to move around it, it just stopped me and kept staring.

The only thing I could do - ask what it was and what it wanted - I did, and got no answer, although it looked like I kind of shook it's confidence.

Does anyone have any idea what this is?

Ie, I have seen this a good few times even without meditation. I too seemed to have spooked it a bit by asking "who are you" & inviting it closer.

By all accounts it regards us as children & we need protecting from ourselves, even though it in itself is young, childish & short tempered when you don't do what it wants. It has threatened & even tried to blackmail me.

My guess is, it has something to do with computer agents "sentient programmes" which was developed in the US, even though it says it lives in the rocks as some form of electric & is over 2,000,000 yrs, but has now managed to occupy other forms including the web & computer memory.

I could be totally off here by confusing two or more forces & combining them as one.

[etheric underground]

If anyone is good with the zoom factor ...check out the native indian guy sitting in the window
keeping an eye on LITTLE GRANDMOTHER
By the way we were at least 2 stories up off the ground



http://projectavalon.net/forum4/images/attach/jpg.gif

[red_rose]

If anyone is good with the zoom factor ...check out the native indian guy sitting in the window
keeping an eye on LITTLE GRANDMOTHER
By the way we were at least 2 stories up off the ground



http://projectavalon.net/forum4/images/attach/jpg.gif

is that not the reflection of someone sitting directly in front of her? You can also see people reflected in the windows on the right hand side.

Just wondering, were you there? Do you remember anyone who looked like that being there?

[Erich]

Is it possible that meditation is a ruse to create access?

[Carolin]

This has happened to me and some of my friends. We always considered it to be the eye of God. Now after reading this I'm not so sure!?! Damnit......pulled out of my comfort zone again!!!

[Tony]

Whatever happens in meditation............. drop it!
Any appearance is the mind still playing, they called nyams in Tibetan.

[Moemers]

Whatever happens in meditation............. drop it!
Any appearance is the mind still playing, they called nyams in Tibetan.

What do you mean drop it?

Whatever we see, just let it go after meditation?

[Tony]

Whatever happens in meditation............. drop it!
Any appearance is the mind still playing, they called nyams in Tibetan.

What do you mean drop it?

Whatever we see, just let it go after meditation?

Meditation is about liberating all thoughts and appearances, they are illusions. That which knows this is the only reality. Let go during meditation, that is the meditation!
A Siddhi knows how to break the meditation. Short moments many times. Meditation is not a state, or trance, it is coming out of the trance we live in, day in day out.
If you are doing a sitting practise the senses should be wide open, relaxed and unfabricated. This is so when going about daily work, there is no difference. You are conscious space, things merely come to pass in this empty conscious space.

All the best
Tony

[Tony]

Is it possible that meditation is a ruse to create access?

Dear Erich,
Could you explain a little more of what you mean?

Tony

[Anno]

[...]
My guess is, it has something to do with computer agents "sentient programmes" which was developed in the US, even though it says it lives in the rocks as some form of electric & is over 2,000,000 yrs, but has now managed to occupy other forms including the web & computer memory.
[...]

Computers are essentially crystal/silicone technology so something that lives in the rock 'vibration' shouldn't have too much trouble living in computers. I remember reading about early Chaos Magick experiments creating servitors within the internet. There's a branch of Magic/k devoted to it called TechnoMages or TechnoShamans.

When you think about it, the internet is a model of reality. A big web of energy streaming all over the place. I can't see any reason why there can't be internet wildlife. Although I'm unconvinced by reports of AI as most people use a false interpretation of what AI is. AI is not sentient, it's simply a program written to follow the same kind of processes as a human mind may use when making decisions. This idea of Sentient Computers is like Frankensteins monster. Who has the power and ability to put life in something? Now if you created something suitable for life to inhabit and invited something in to it, like those early Chaotes, then perhaps that would work.

[Maia Gabrial]

I had a similar experience during one of my meditations. I saw an eye through a bunch of clouds. Scared me. Then, I got the strong feeling that I should break off the meditation or it would have emerged out of the clouds....
Weird, huh?

[Moemers]

Earlier in the meditation I had a strong feeling that the ringer on my phone should be turned on, as my sister was driving home and I figured if something happened I'd need to hear about it.

I NEVER leave my ringer on during quiet time.

After I asked the Eye who it was, and after it waffled, I tried to gather more info on the Eye, but found myself stuck in that moment.

Then my sister called, just to tell me she was on the way.

Hmm.

[Meesh]

Whatever happens in meditation............. drop it!
Any appearance is the mind still playing, they called nyams in Tibetan.

What do you mean drop it?

Whatever we see, just let it go after meditation?

Meditation is about liberating all thoughts and appearances, they are illusions. That which knows this is the only reality. Let go during meditation, that is the meditation!
A Siddhi knows how to break the meditation. Short moments many times. Meditation is not a state, or trance, it is coming out of the trance we live in, day in day out.
If you are doing a sitting practise the senses should be wide open, relaxed and unfabricated. This is so when going about daily work, there is no difference. You are conscious space, things merely come to pass in this empty conscious space.

All the best
Tony

Just chiming in. Do not become attached to any thoughts or images. That means don't force them away either. Think of them as clouds passing across the sky (your awareness).

[Czarek]

During one of my meditation, I had a face of a human woman slip in, she just looked at me for one sec and was gone. She was very unattractive.

[realitycorrodes]

The Falun Gong material and master states in the beginning of their meditation they will see and eye looking at them, but that they will - once they have overcome the fear realise it is their own third eye. I have a friend that confirms this. Often we are unwittingly frightened of the unknown, when with a little more will to stay open and prevent the mind running away making fearful associations, we can discover the truths. Wishing you well. It sounds like you are making good progress!

¤=[Post Update]=¤

The only thing to fear is fear itself!

[Firinn]

While going through my reiki attunement process, I saw the "eye" in front of me. I felt very at ease with this, in fact it winked at me. :)

[Fred Steeves]

Whatever happens in meditation............. drop it!
Any appearance is the mind still playing, they called nyams in Tibetan.

Sorry Tony, I've got to call you on this one sir. This is EXACTLY the kind of teaching that so disturbed me at the Buddhist retreat I attended a few weeks ago. What I know about this comes not from books, philosophies, concepts, etc., it comes from personal experience. The experience you advise to drop is the experience I have come to realize as the opening of our higher senses. It freaked me out to suddenly realize after 24 hours at the retreat we were being instructed to shut down our psychic senses during meditation.To me anyway, the teaching of purposely shutting that process down is ludicrous at best, insidious at worst.

We're all big boys and girls here, so we can make up our own minds. This is merely my personal truth as I know it thus far.

Cheers,
Fred

[Maia Gabrial]

Initially, when I read the title of this thread, I thought this commercial would fit the bill. Still, I hope it gives you guys a laugh, too.

in0x7aFGGWQ

[etheric underground]

[QUOTE=etheric underground;270307]If anyone is good with the zoom factor ...check out the native indian guy sitting in the window
keeping an eye on LITTLE GRANDMOTHER
By the way we were at least 2 stories up off the ground

Hi red rose, Ive analysed the photo 1000 times and got people that do
photography to check it they cannot explain it other than saying only I
would capture a spirit at an event like this.
The actual crowd was along way back off the wooden dance floor.
If you work the angles mr Indian would have to sitting very close to get that reflection.
And I assure you there was no one sitting that close or any one resembling him.
In fact there was a total of about 4 guys ( not including the musicians in the shot)
that were in the crowd of about 300-500 guests.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/images/attach/jpg.gif

is that not the reflection of someone sitting directly in front of her? You can also see people reflected in the windows on the right hand side.

[Erich]

Just a thought I had, but what if meditation was designed to create access to us somehow by forces we may not want in our heads? What if the noise of thoughts in our head is defense? A few days ago, after I meditated, I was in a terrible mood. It's happened several times after I meditate my mood shifts and I feel as if I have been implanted with weird, unpleasant thoughts and feelings. When I just live carefree and don't meditate I feel very relaxed and happy and uncluttered. Strange, I know.

[truth4me]

I've had a "grey's face" appear if front of me once,actually more then once. Also had a reptilian face appear before too....

[Tarka the Duck]

Whatever happens in meditation............. drop it!
Any appearance is the mind still playing, they called nyams in Tibetan.

Sorry Tony, I've got to call you on this one sir. This is EXACTLY the kind of teaching that so disturbed me at the Buddhist retreat I attended a few weeks ago. What I know about this comes not from books, philosophies, concepts, etc., it comes from personal experience. The experience you advise to drop is the experience I have come to realize as the opening of our higher senses. It freaked me out to suddenly realize after 24 hours at the retreat we were being instructed to shut down our psychic senses during meditation.To me anyway, the teaching of purposely shutting that process down is ludicrous at best, insidious at worst.

We're all big boys and girls here, so we can make up our own minds. This is merely my personal truth as I know it thus far.

Cheers,
Fred

Hello Fred. It goes without saying, hopefully, that we are each free to follow whatever makes sense for us at each stage of our journey. If what you are currently feeling works for you, that is great.
The only problem I have with what you have said is that you seem to be questioning the motives of those who have offered their help over the centuries. Personally, I have the greatest respect for the many accomplshed, authentic teachers who have practised and taught this particular form of meditation. To be arrogant enough to take the stance that their efforts are "insidious" and "ludicrous" - or possibly even worse than those - takes some guts!
Have you considered that your opinion may be the result of you not fully understanding the reasons for this type of practice - or indeed, how to actually do it? As you said, you only tried this once, at your first and only (and from the sound of it, possibly your last!) Buddhist retreat: is that really enough to make such a judgement?
Is it not that the nature if all relative reality - and that includes any transient experiences that we may have during meditation - are empty of any inherent, true reality? That is not so say that we necessarily ignore these experiences or deny them - and we certainly don't block them out - but rather, just smile and let them pass as the illusions that they are.

Best wishes
Kathie

[Tony]

Whatever happens in meditation............. drop it!
Any appearance is the mind still playing, they called nyams in Tibetan.

Sorry Tony, I've got to call you on this one sir. This is EXACTLY the kind of teaching that so disturbed me at the Buddhist retreat I attended a few weeks ago. What I know about this comes not from books, philosophies, concepts, etc., it comes from personal experience. The experience you advise to drop is the experience I have come to realize as the opening of our higher senses. It freaked me out to suddenly realize after 24 hours at the retreat we were being instructed to shut down our psychic senses during meditation.To me anyway, the teaching of purposely shutting that process down is ludicrous at best, insidious at worst.

We're all big boys and girls here, so we can make up our own minds. This is merely my personal truth as I know it thus far.

Cheers,
Fred


Dear Fred,

Good morning. Your supposition about meditation being mind control, is totally right. However it is about you controlling your mind not someone else. To entertain the idea that spiritual masters over thousands of years want you not to see, is idiotic.

Is that sounding harsh? No. You are born into a world of mind control. Here we have the organisation Common Purpose, they twisting reality. Over in America you must have an equivalent. You are constantly told to live the American dream, be yourself and nobody telling you what to do. It's all rubbish. Plus being on this site you now suspect everything.

Meditation is just being clear minded. Of course it is your choice to disagree, that's fine. But be aware that you are not just caught up in this mass hysteria.

If you learn anything, you have to know the rules. I am a painter, and I have to know the rules of perspective and proportion. Once I know this I can break the rules. But beginner cannot do this. However this is precisely what you are being told by the media around you...just do your thing!

Just look at the mess we are in.

If meditation is not working for you, you are not doing it right. Meditation in essence is just being you. Not the idea of you. You either can live in a world of ignorance or in a world of wisdom. It's your choice.

This is meant kindly.

Tony

[Tony]

Just a thought I had, but what if meditation was designed to create access to us somehow by forces we may not want in our heads? What if the noise of thoughts in our head is defense? A few days ago, after I meditated, I was in a terrible mood. It's happened several times after I meditate my mood shifts and I feel as if I have been implanted with weird, unpleasant thoughts and feelings. When I just live carefree and don't meditate I feel very relaxed and happy and uncluttered. Strange, I know.

Clearly you are not practising properly. What instruction have you had? Meditation is meant to get you out of the world of stupidity. Your last sentence sounds right. What often happens is that people try too hard, and get uptight, so when they stop it is a relief! This is common. That is why real meditation is non meditation. You have to drop the meditation as well. Then you can go deeper, like unpeeling an onion. When you are really conscious no one can pull the wool over your eyes. Please do not do it to yourself!

I'm on your side,
Tony

[Ammit]

I have not been able to meditate since before christmas last year, nor do I have my sensitivity to paranormal experiences ( cant sense anything). I am just blank, like it was turned off.

[Tony]

I have not been able to meditate since before christmas last year, nor do I have my sensitivity to paranormal experiences ( cant sense anything). I am just blank, like it was turned off.

Dear Ammit,
What you have just said is extremely important. I can only talk from the teachings and my own experience. I'll keep it short, but will go into detail if you wish.
I too have absolutely no paranormal experiences, and I been meditating for forty years. Thank your lucky stars!! it is just a diversion.
There is a pure open non-state in meditation, but just down from there is a state of oblivion or vacancy. There 9 levels of consciousness, 5 of the senses, 3 of mind and pure consciousness. The trick is to just be aware of this blank state, and do nothing with it. That which is aware, knows. it will gradually become more familiar. That which is not needed will drop away...the confusion.

Keep going, do not modify anything that arise, let it be.
The further you go, the simpler it gets.

Warmest regards
Tony

[Carmen]

Um, the deepest level of Meditation etc has no form as far as what I have been taught and experienced. Having said that though, I and my fellow students were taken through an exercise some years back. It was a sort of journey in consciousness. In one part of probably an hour and half journey we 'saw' a large eye looking at us. We were instructed to go through the eye and out the other side!!! We went to our futures. It was a fascinating journey and quite surprising. So, when I saw this thread I remembered the journey.

[Ammit]

I have not been able to meditate since before christmas last year, nor do I have my sensitivity to paranormal experiences ( cant sense anything). I am just blank, like it was turned off.

Dear Ammit,
What you have just said is extremely important. I can only talk from the teachings and my own experience. I'll keep it short, but will go into detail if you wish.
I too have absolutely no paranormal experiences, and I been meditating for forty years. Thank your lucky stars!! it is just a diversion.
There is a pure open non-state in meditation, but just down from there is a state of oblivion or vacancy. There 9 levels of consciousness, 5 of the senses, 3 of mind and pure consciousness. The trick is to just be aware of this blank state, and do nothing with it. That which is aware, knows. it will gradually become more familiar. That which is not needed will drop away...the confusion.

Keep going, do not modify anything that arise, let it be.
The further you go, the simpler it gets.

Warmest regards
Tony

Tony, thanks for your reply.

I did use to have a sensitivity where I was able to sense something there ( ghosts if you will ) and was even able to get details such as age, gender etc. It stopped about the same time as i went blank with meditating. Doing what I used to do to meditate leaves me still sitting there maybe an hour later in the same state of non meditation.

I can still lock on to certain people and heal them ( if you will ), I can still take pain away and this seems a stronger abillity now, but will only work for certain people. I miss meditating , but have seen some other meditators begin to struggle with it lately.

Edit::

Maybe this is something to do with the magnetism changes or poles shifting, I dont really know.

[Carolin]

Just a thought I had, but what if meditation was designed to create access to us somehow by forces we may not want in our heads? What if the noise of thoughts in our head is defense? A few days ago, after I meditated, I was in a terrible mood. It's happened several times after I meditate my mood shifts and I feel as if I have been implanted with weird, unpleasant thoughts and feelings. When I just live carefree and don't meditate I feel very relaxed and happy and uncluttered. Strange, I know.

Meditation is like peeling an onion so some layers will make you cry, angry, happy, etc, etc. Crap will often rise to the surface...just let it go...you don't even need to understand where it came from. Just be happy it's leaving.

[Tony]

I have not been able to meditate since before christmas last year, nor do I have my sensitivity to paranormal experiences ( cant sense anything). I am just blank, like it was turned off.

Dear Ammit,
What you have just said is extremely important. I can only talk from the teachings and my own experience. I'll keep it short, but will go into detail if you wish.
I too have absolutely no paranormal experiences, and I been meditating for forty years. Thank your lucky stars!! it is just a diversion.
There is a pure open non-state in meditation, but just down from there is a state of oblivion or vacancy. There 9 levels of consciousness, 5 of the senses, 3 of mind and pure consciousness. The trick is to just be aware of this blank state, and do nothing with it. That which is aware, knows. it will gradually become more familiar. That which is not needed will drop away...the confusion.

Keep going, do not modify anything that arise, let it be.
The further you go, the simpler it gets.

Warmest regards
Tony

Tony, thanks for your reply.

I did use to have a sensitivity where I was able to sense something there ( ghosts if you will ) and was even able to get details such as age, gender etc. It stopped about the same time as i went blank with meditating. Doing what I used to do to meditate leaves me still sitting there maybe an hour later in the same state of non meditation.

I can still lock on to certain people and heal them ( if you will ), I can still take pain away and this seems a stronger abillity now, but will only work for certain people. I miss meditating , but have seen some other meditators begin to struggle with it lately.

Edit::

Maybe this is something to do with the magnetism changes or poles shifting, I dont really know.

I believe you are on the right track. However sometimes we need to take a breather, and then move on. I quite often get stuck, and all that has happened is that I have subtly held on the an experience, and a blankness takes place. As we are not enlightened (yet) this or something is bound to happen, it is normal. The trick is to not make a big deal out of it, we just have to be nice to our self. The ego does get bruised, but is part of the process. Learning is painful. Precisely because we have to let go of what we think we have. Then we can step into a larger pond.

There is something else, demons attack those that are waking up, they do not like it at all and try to make things seem worse. Demons like docile vegetables!!!
Demons want you to give up and conform.

All the best
Tony

[Realeyes]

This is an interesting deeply spiritual discussion and I would like to share with you dear Avalonions what I know about this particular subject from first hand experience. ;)

I have witnessed seeing the beautiful 'one eye' for over 25 years during meditation, it is always peaceful, loving, and has never spoken, it just silently passively watches in the Great Void. I have understood this eye to be my 'god', higher self or 'Greater Observer' as termed in Quantum Physics. When I am engaged with my Observer in meditation, it is because I have reached an awareness level within myself that is beyond the ‘personality identity’, I remember no ‘name to label me’, for I am now all ‘Soul’, ‘Spirit’, ‘Isness’, ‘Conscious Awareness’ from my heart chakra (or above) bathing in ‘unconditional love’ and ‘knowingness’ connected to All That Is.

IMHO this is a ‘godly experience’ and ‘godly presence’ of the many facets of ‘Oneness’. When one is in this state experiencing the Eye there is a state of ‘Beingness’ – Observing the ‘Observer’ observing ‘you’; ‘you’ being the one who experiences life while the ‘Observer’ learns through your experiences. God is meditating and I AM the meditation – both are ONE. In that moment and engagement ‘All Is One’ – think of it like a direct streaming communication with your god/higher self. This state of awareness is way beyond the Matrix. :biggrin1:

It is only when the person moves out of this ‘state of awareness’ and ‘knowingness’ back to being a personality (identity with a name) that the questions arise as to ‘what was that’ and then the fear arises because it is now an ‘unknown’. I know I cannot convince anyone on this, as one has to observe these thoughts first hand. I know for myself it is important to be ‘aware’ of being ‘aware’ and ‘observing’ the difference when I am ‘not aware’ – thought patterns are very different if you get what I mean, there’s either ‘knowingness’ or ‘doubt’. For myself in my own observations such questions and doubts only arise ‘after’ the ‘godly moment’ not during it. Sorry, I am finding it very difficult to put this abstract topic into words; I do hope this makes sense to those reading this.

Also I have read the posts of concern as to ‘what else’ it might be and would like to share my understanding. I have for many years been aware of the nefarious agendas such as A.I., tptb, mind control , remote viewers, programs etc and how clever they have been to mimic and twist ‘truth’ to keep things hidden from sight and steer the spiritual seeker in another direction. They have made sure by using the ‘one eye’ as their emblem, to give it a negative connotation and keep Souls lost and trapped under their control. Using pure reason of what I have mentioned above about the true nature of the ‘godly eye’, where Soul, Spirit and God are One, it becomes obvious in the tptb chess game why they would promote a twisted belief system of lower consciousness injecting ‘doubt’ that erodes ‘knowingness’. If we are absent of our true state of ‘knowingness’ then we can be easily manipulated and controlled. :suspicious:

The ‘True Eye’ is our connection to Source, it is US dwelling in the Great Void –This is where we connect to whom we really BE, a co-creator god of realties. This Eye is organic, it cannot be forced or imagined, and isn’t ‘form’ as such, more ‘eye to eye’ with one’s self and these moments arrive naturally and organically when we are sincerely ready to connect.

So if you are experiencing this ‘godly eye’, see this as a wonderful sign that you are well on your journey in discovering SELF! :grouphug::rapture:

[Fred Steeves]

I too have absolutely no paranormal experiences, and I been meditating for forty years. Thank your lucky stars!! it is just a diversion.


Good afternoon to ya Tony. If people wish to consider their higher senses as being merely "distractions" or "diversions", that's fine by me. Just that before anybody read what you said with the "drop it" comment during meditation, and maybe figured that's just the way it is, I wanted to put forth another viewpoint.

Just for the record I have no problem with meditation what so ever, so let's get that "clear".(ha ha) I started meditating back around '98 or so when I first discovered Alan Watts, and it's been a fantastic adventure ever since. I've gotten quite proficient at meditating, and it's no strange occurence to just "lose" an hour or two. I don't do it so much any more, but it's always there like an old friend whenever I feel I need the solice of the void. People can decide for themselves whether encounters to and from the void have any importance. Mostly though, any more I've just become attuned to a state of contemplation nearly all the time, and it's a fascinating state of self discovery to be in. This for me is where inspiration and insights occur.


THE FOLLOWING WAS FROM TARKA THE DUCK:
"Personally, I have the greatest respect for the many accomplshed, authentic teachers who have practised and taught this particular form of meditation. To be arrogant enough to take the stance that their efforts are "insidious" and "ludicrous" - or possibly even worse than those - takes some guts!
Have you considered that your opinion may be the result of you not fully understanding the reasons for this type of practice - or indeed, how to actually do it? As you said, you only tried this once, at your first and only (and from the sound of it, possibly your last!) Buddhist retreat: is that really enough to make such a judgement"?


O.k., thank you for that Kathie, and I really mean that! My apologies for coming off to some as kicking sand in the faces of the great teachers of our past, that was certainly NOT my intent. Let me give a short anecdote: The Dali Lama has said something to the effect of " as science evolves, so must Buddhism". Now stuff like that I DO have a problem with, and WILL openly challenge it. I'll trust the ancient science and wisdom of the Buddha ANY day over this guy we now have, who gets his scientific information from the usual mainstream suspects. And, thereby alters the teachings of the Buddha accordingly.

On the old retreat story, as you read above I went there not as a novice of meditation or Buddhism, just as a retreat novice. So yes, IMHO I was/am qualified to form an opinion based on not just years of experience in meditation, but on experience in the exploration of other realms of existance. I don't believe the ancient masters intended for people to spend the rest of their lives attempting to wipe everything from their minds, at all times possible, everything except attention to breath. Sorry, I just don't buy it. I did experience a shutting down inside, and that sudden insight did freak me out. It took a while to break free of it. THAT'S the insidious part I speak of, I don't feel that that guru had any nefarious intent, but he is relaying teachings that have become distorted. This is no different than many Bible teachings. I openly challenge them too.

So everybody, please follow your hearts, and do what is right for you. I'm not hunting and pecking all this trying to convince anybody of anything, know that I'm not just some cocky and ignorant kid looking to make a name for himself. I have nothing to prove to anyone...



Cheers,
Fred

[Tarka the Duck]

Hello Fred - as you have studied with, or are studying with Allan Watts, I wondered whether you knew about the Mind Life Institute? He is a Lifetime Emeritus Board Member of this body (do I have the right Allan Watts?), which exists, among other things to discuss and examine combining contemplative traditions with contemporary scientific methods. The Dalai Lama was, I believe, is on the board of directors and is very closely involved in it.
http://www.mindandlife.org/
Best wishes
Kathie

[Fred Steeves]

Hi Tarka, no, the Alan Watts I'm referring to was a Zen philosopher who made his biggest mark in the 60's out in California. He was a bit of a rebel, like yours truly, and wasn't well regarded by the Zen "establishment". He died back in '71 I believe it was, but his "talks" never seem to get old. He was very funny to boot.

Cheers,
Fred

[Tarka the Duck]

I don't believe the ancient masters intended for people to spend the rest of their lives attempting to wipe everything from their minds, at all times possible, everything except attention to breath. Sorry, I just don't buy it.

Hello - me again!

I believe you are probably referring to the practice of shine (or shamata) meditation, where you do focus on the breath and block extraneous thoughts. That is one of the early practices and helps develop control over the thoughts and emotions. I agree that it can sometimes feel rather stifling and rigid, in the same way that someone who is learning the piano may find the practice of scales and arpeggios limiting and arduous.

If one is into doing things one's own way, reinventing one's own wheel and blazing a trail, then great. For those of us who prefer a tried and tested, traditional method where teachings are handed down orally, then a sequence of useful practices is in place. We chose the path we feel is right for us - but it's not a competition ;)

I think Tony was referring to a technique practised in Dzogchen (Ati Yoga) where nothing is blocked and nothing is held on to.

Best wishes
Kathie

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Hi Tarka, no, the Alan Watts I'm referring to was a Zen philosopher who made his biggest mark in the 60's out in California. He was a bit of a rebel, like yours truly, and wasn't well regarded by the Zen "establishment". He died back in '71 I believe it was, but his "talks" never seem to get old. He was very funny to boot.

Cheers,
Fred

How inconsiderate - 2 people having the same name...:o

[Fred Steeves]

If one is into doing things one's own way, reinventing one's own wheel and blazing a trail, then great. For those of us who prefer a tried and tested, traditional method where teachings are handed down orally, then a sequence of useful practices is in place. We chose the path we feel is right for us - but it's not a competition ;)



A meeting of the minds is a beautiful thing. Perfect Kathie, thank you!!!

Cheers,
Fred

Group hug anyone?

[Tarka the Duck]

If one is into doing things one's own way, reinventing one's own wheel and blazing a trail, then great. For those of us who prefer a tried and tested, traditional method where teachings are handed down orally, then a sequence of useful practices is in place. We chose the path we feel is right for us - but it's not a competition ;)



A meeting of the minds is a beautiful thing. Perfect Kathie, thank you!!!

Cheers,
Fred

Group hug anyone?

Count me in...xx