Invitations.

[Lord Sidious]

Greetings avalonuggets.
I want to put forward a suggestion and I want to see what the rest of you think.
What do we want the staff to do if we invite someone to join and they get rejected?
I had this happen today and the admin want to hide behind the veils of confidentiality.
I told them upfront this couple were looking to join and I told them who and what they were as well.
That is a cop out.
Why bother inviting people to participate if we are going to be told that?
This makes us look dumb.
What say the rest of you avalonuggets?

[thunder24]

Let them join, if they show themselves to be who you say they are then whats the problem?

peace

[Lord Sidious]

Dunno, it is confidential I am told.
And to make it worse, the staff member was rude and petty.
I don't expect the staff to break all the rules, but I don't expect to be spoken to like I am back in school either.
I believe in showing respect to those who show it to me.
So that staff member won't get one scrap of it until I see some back.

[Morgaine]

Well, I suppose as it's a moderated forum, we can't challenge the rules we accepted upon joining. Then again, we need all kinds of minds to come together here in Avalon, to keep the ball rolling so to speak. Things are slowing down quite a lot if I may say so, it worries me that Avalon is going to change too much.....and not for the good.
Is there anyway we can learn more about these people (or can they introduce themselves etc?) then perhaps that might help things? Good Luck, interesting post!

Morgaine.

[Flash]

`There must be a reason for the rejection LS. Don't you have doubts about the reason?

You know, when managing something or a group, sometimes we take decisions that have to do with the overall needs and overall views, not targetting specifics but the overalll. They must have tought that something was wrong for the overall.

You may have thought these people would be good for Avalon, they do not have to share this belief and they may have some constraints. Where I would object somewhat would be if they do not want friends together in order to avoid supporting each other and ruining threads like this. This would be real unfair. But I do not know the whole story.

To be polite, you should be given some reasons for their rejections so that you can come back and safe face.

Of course, this won't give you the taste to invite again however.

All over my opinion
Flash

[Lord Sidious]

Well, I suppose as it's a moderated forum, we can't challenge the rules we accepted upon joining. Then again, we need all kinds of minds to come together here in Avalon, to keep the ball rolling so to speak. Things are slowing down quite a lot if I may say so, it worries me that Avalon is going to change too much.....and not for the good.
Is there anyway we can learn more about these people (or can they introduce themselves etc?) then perhaps that might help things? Good Luck, interesting post!

Morgaine.

They are topic of discussion here already, that is why I invited them.
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?26726-Michael-Sarah-Feeley-Why-We-Left-The-Police-Connection-Hope


`There must be a reason for the rejection LS. Don't you have doubts about the reason?

You know, when managing something or a group, sometimes we take decisions that have to do with the overall needs and overall views, not targetting specifics but the overalll. They must have tought that something was wrong for the overall.

You may have thought these people would be good for Avalon, they do not have to share this belief and they may have some constraints. Where I would object somewhat would be if they do not want friends together in order to avoid supporting each other and ruining threads like this. This would be real unfair. But I do not know the whole story.

To be polite, you should be given some reasons for their rejections so that you can come back and safe face.

Of course, this won't give you the taste to invite again however.

All over my opinion
Flash

Yes, I have doubts, because I have no idea what went on.
Sometimes we need to actually use our initiative.
I did, I invited them here to tell us more about their experiences and I told the staff upfront.
Then I get no feedback at all.
Rediculous.

[Fred Steeves]

I love a good rebellion as much as anyone Rob, you know that, and I'll stand by you if a wrong has been committed here, but I kind of feel like a jury who's only heard a bit of the story. Are you prepared to hang out all the dirty laundry for Avalon and the world to see?

[Lord Sidious]

I love a good rebellion as much as anyone Rob, you know that, and I'll stand by you if a wrong has been committed here, but I kind of feel like a jury who's only heard a bit of the story. Are you prepared to hang out all the dirty laundry for Avalon and the world to see?

We have to hang it all out.
I have no idea what went on, it is confidential.

[Tony]

I would like to see a free planet, with no fear.

[Lord Sidious]

I would like to see a free planet, with no fear.

Me too nugget, me too.

[thunder24]

seems like they have a pretty cool website.

peace

[ThePythonicCow]

I'll say in public what I said in private. If an applicant has questions or concerns about our decision, they should send email to staff@projectavalon.net

We discuss individual decisions with the individuals concerned.

[shadowstalker]

So tell us about the couple that wanted to join, maybe together we can make a big enough stink to help let them in, it is as much our forum as it is theres (mods), (If it where not for us here there would be no forum, just empty space to gauk at) may be if you speak to BILL

[QueenKat]

Well, let's see: the reason the staff said that it's confidential why your friends were denied is probably because you would be upset if you knew the true reason they were denied. The staff just doesn't want you to get upset, well, more upset than you are at the present time.

If it were me that was staff, I'd probably tell you why they were denied...unless it were really embarrassing for someone. That may be it, also...it's embarrassing for someone why they were denied.

I'd probably just apologize to my friends and try to let it go...

[Lord Sidious]

seems like they have a pretty cool website.

peace

They do.
Did you see the links on their site?
They seem to be promoting much of what we do, hence my invitation to them.
See, here is the thing, if I didn't think this place was worth it, I wouldn't bother.
So I go off and try to get some people whom I think would be good members and they get rejected and I get told to but out, even though I invited them?
What sort of bull**** is that?


I'll say in public what I said in private. If an applicant has questions or concerns about our decision, they should send email to staff@projectavalon.net

We discuss individual decisions with the individuals concerned.

And I told you upfront that I had invited them, yes?
And I told you who they were, yes?
You didn't have the courtesy to tell me anything, you hid behind the rules.
Rules which you conveniently ignore when it suits you.


So tell us about the couple that wanted to join, maybe together we can make a big enough stink to help let them in, it is as much our forum as it is there, If it where not for us here there would be no forum, just empty space to gauk at) may be if you speak to BILL

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?26726-Michael-Sarah-Feeley-Why-We-Left-The-Police-Connection-Hope

Bill hasn't been around for over a month.

[thunder24]

sounds kinda funny. I did see the links, and that is exactly what i thought that they would be good for avalon. I know this isn't a democracy, but dang wuzup?

What is that saying of what is thought of you and your judgement?

peace

[Rocky_Shorz]

maybe we should create special whistleblower invites that flash in bright purple when they apply... ;)

[seko]

I love a good rebellion as much as anyone Rob, you know that, and I'll stand by you if a wrong has been committed here, but I kind of feel like a jury who's only heard a bit of the story. Are you prepared to hang out all the dirty laundry for Avalon and the world to see?

We have to hang it all out.
I have no idea what went on, it is confidential.

I understand what you are saying L Sid.

Could it be because they are ex-policemen???

Their information might get Avalon in trouble?? May be the mods don;t want any trouble??

It would be nice if they let us know why they took that decision or at least to you. In order for us to understand and not doing it again or actually do it.

[Rocky_Shorz]

none of us would ever want to get Avalon in trouble... ;)


the question is if I had applied now, would they let me in?


points at the Grandfather clause in my contract... don't be getting any ideas... lol

[Lord Sidious]

I love a good rebellion as much as anyone Rob, you know that, and I'll stand by you if a wrong has been committed here, but I kind of feel like a jury who's only heard a bit of the story. Are you prepared to hang out all the dirty laundry for Avalon and the world to see?

We have to hang it all out.
I have no idea what went on, it is confidential.

I understand what you are saying L Sid.

Could it be because they are ex-policemen???

Their information might get Avalon in trouble?? May be the mods don;t want any trouble??

It would be nice if they let us know why they took that decision or at least to you. In order for us to understand and not doing it again or actually do it.

The couple emailed me to let me know what happened.
It isn't as if I am just asking because we haven't had a ruckus around here for a while.
We do now.

[Lisab]

I don't understand. Why can't they join? If the cops can wake up then surely there's hope. We've been thru the whole Charles and Charlie veitch stuff and we know it only serves to make us stronger. I say give 'em a chance. X

[shadowstalker]

Rules which you conveniently ignore when it suits you.

1.)So what rules would have been broken if they had been let in?
2.)What was the true decision in this, what was this mods findings?
3.)Did the mod do real time research on this couple?
4.)Why the secrecy in his decision?

Anyone else with question for the mod?

[Seikou-Kishi]

You know, everybody that wants to join this website fills out a membership application, and all of those membership applications are reviewed by the moderators. We deny applications like we approve applications, but there's really only one person who decides whether we approve or deny an application: the applicant; their application is their chance to tell us why they should be a member, if they do not fill their application out satisfactorily, they will be denied. What does anybody think an application is? It's not a pretty and trivial waste of time we ask for just so we can ignore it and rubberstamp anybody who wants to come in.

Plenty of people are denied membership based on the contents of their applications. How many more people are there who do not get in and who do not have a Lord Sid to kick up a stink for them? The application process is there for a reason; if they wish to reapply and this time use the application as a chance to really show why they should be in, they are free to do that and their new membership applications will be assessed on its own merits.

[Lord Sidious]

Thanks for that Ollie, but that didn't address my concerns.
I tried to sort this in private, but that didn't work, so here we are.

[thunder24]

sid can we get a copy of their answers they gave?

peace

[ThePythonicCow]

It would be nice if they let us know why they took that decision or at least to you. In order for us to understand and not doing it again or actually do it.
I'll agree with that.

But I am not going to unilaterally say anything significant on the issue here and now.

The application process works reasonably well, in part because it is a small number of people (the admins and mods) who have worked together and trust each other.

If we, as a group, decide to say something, that's fine. It can take a day or perhaps more to get most of the admins and mods involved in such a discussion.

Meanwhile I am not going to comment further, unilaterally, except to remind anyone dealing with a concerned denied applicant that the recommended way for the applicant to ask further questions or raise concerns is to send email to staff@projectavalon.net

[Fred Steeves]

I have to sign off for the night soon, but here's a question I have to Paul:

Paul, (Lord Sidious) Rob is a valued member of this forum, he has proven time and again to have sound judgement, and I don't believe he would make this bold move without good reason. Therefore I have to ask, was it just you who denied these two people in, or the moderators as a team?

[Seikou-Kishi]

sid can we get a copy of their answers they gave?

peace

No, Thunder, we can't; membership applications, like private messages, are private.

[seko]

You know, everybody that wants to join this website fills out a membership application, and all of those membership applications are reviewed by the moderators. We deny applications like we approve applications, but there's really only one person who decides whether we approve or deny an application: the applicant; their application is their chance to tell us why they should be a member, if they do not fill their application out satisfactorily, they will be denied. What does anybody think an application is? It's not a pretty and trivial waste of time we ask for just so we can ignore it and rubberstamp anybody who wants to come in.

Plenty of people are denied membership based on the contents of their applications. How many more people are there who do not get in and who do not have a Lord Sid to kick up a stink for them? The application process is there for a reason; if they wish to reapply and this time use the application as a chance to really show why they should be in, they are free to do that and their new membership applications will be assessed on its own merits.

Fair enough.

They still have another chance Lord Sid if they want to join in.

Thanks Oliver.

[thunder24]

sid can we get a copy of their answers they gave?

peace

No, Thunder, we can't; membership applications, like private messages, are private.

Ollie,

I did not address you. i asked Sid, you know Lord Sidious for the answers. If they gave them to him, what is the rule that is broken?

peace

[Rocky_Shorz]

well maybe we should help them with ideas on the next application...

forget the fight, let's just get em in...

I contact people who look interesting all the time and invite them to join us, I respect LS for trying...

change the topic to "how to respond to an Avalon invite" and lets get started...

[Lord Sidious]

sid can we get a copy of their answers they gave?

peace

I would doubt that, it would contain private info.


I have to sign off for the night soon, but here's a question I have to Paul:

Paul, (Lord Sidious) Rob is a valued member of this forum, he has proven time and again to have sound judgement, and I don't believe he would make this bold move without good reason. Therefore I have to ask, was it just you who denied these two people in, or the moderators as a team?

I could have been wrong in thinking they would be good members, but how would I know?
I have emailed with them for a few days, that is all I know.
I did expect a bit of consideration as I did tell the staff upfront what I had done, whom I had invited and why.
All I asked for was a bit of leeway.



You know, everybody that wants to join this website fills out a membership application, and all of those membership applications are reviewed by the moderators. We deny applications like we approve applications, but there's really only one person who decides whether we approve or deny an application: the applicant; their application is their chance to tell us why they should be a member, if they do not fill their application out satisfactorily, they will be denied. What does anybody think an application is? It's not a pretty and trivial waste of time we ask for just so we can ignore it and rubberstamp anybody who wants to come in.

Plenty of people are denied membership based on the contents of their applications. How many more people are there who do not get in and who do not have a Lord Sid to kick up a stink for them? The application process is there for a reason; if they wish to reapply and this time use the application as a chance to really show why they should be in, they are free to do that and their new membership applications will be assessed on its own merits.

Fair enough.

They still have another chance Lord Sid if they want to join in.

Thanks Oliver.

That isn't my point.
They can still email and ask to be let in, yes, but what about this cock up?

[QueenKat]

Yes, Lord Sidious, please ask them to fill out another application! Please ask them to fill it out to the best of their ability! I'm sure that was the only problem!

[DeDukshyn]

I have invited a few people, but I always warn them that the application process is a bit tight, and to ensure they mention my name as a reference. I haven't had any trouble yet but that's likely because I haven't been convincing enough - none have actually applied ... yet.

If I thought one of my friends were unfairly disqualified (it would be a supposition), than I may just approach the mods to and ask them to review the application again and reconsider .. if that was done I would be satisfied with whatever conclusion was reached. My due diligence would be fulfilled, and I'd be satisfied that the mods did theirs to the best of their ability.

Sorry about your situation Sid, that would be a little embarrasing.

[Rocky_Shorz]

looking at the original application question, why do you want to join Avalon?

I'm a nugget isn't the right answer... ;)

[Jake]

I have to sign off for the night soon, but here's a question I have to Paul:

Paul, (Lord Sidious) Rob is a valued member of this forum, he has proven time and again to have sound judgement, and I don't believe he would make this bold move without good reason. Therefore I have to ask, was it just you who denied these two people in, or the moderators as a team?

Every application is voted on by the moderating team and the admins. We do not approve or decline an application without careful consideration from the whole team.

[Lord Sidious]

I have invited a few people, but I always warn them that the application process is a bit tight, and to ensure they mention my name as a reference. I haven't had any trouble yet but that's likely because I haven't been convincing enough - none have actually applied ... yet.

If I thought one of my friends were unfairly disqualified (it would be a supposition), than I may just approach the mods to and ask them to review the application again and reconsider .. if that was done I would be satisfied with whatever conclusion was reached. My due diligence would be fulfilled, and I'd be satisfied that the mods did theirs to the best of their ability.

Sorry about your situation Sid, that would be a little embarrasing.

I am not embarrassed for me, but I am for avalon.
The autocratic way of doing things is not the way ahead.
I asked questions and was just given the wall of ''we don't discuss peoples applications with other people'' bull****.
That is the cop out way of dealing with it.
This site deserves better than this.

[shadowstalker]

When I answered the app to join the original forum and then this one, the answers I gave where of the bare minimum. simple and to the extreme point nothing more nothing less.
So where is the problem and what had changed so drastically that this couple was denied.

[ThePythonicCow]

I did not address you. i asked Sid, you know Lord Sidious for the answers. If they gave them to him, what is the rule that is broken?
Well, unless we (mods and admins) had some clear knowledge that the applicants gave Lord Sidious their answers with explicit permission that they be published on this forum, that would be violating their privacy to publish their application here.

Moreover, there is, knowingly and intentionally, some explicit separation of the application decision process from the public forum. My initial reaction, not having discussed this with the other mods or admins yet, is that we would not be well served to open up a public debate here on the specifics of a certain application, with that application posted publicly. If I saw someone's denied application posted, my initial reaction would be to take it down (remove it from public view), at least until such as time as when and if the moderator team, as a team, chose some other action.

[42]

I have invited a few people, but I always warn them that the application process is a bit tight, and to ensure they mention my name as a reference. I haven't had any trouble yet but that's likely because I haven't been convincing enough - none have actually applied ... yet.

If I thought one of my friends were unfairly disqualified (it would be a supposition), than I may just approach the mods to and ask them to review the application again and reconsider .. if that was done I would be satisfied with whatever conclusion was reached. My due diligence would be fulfilled, and I'd be satisfied that the mods did theirs to the best of their ability.

Sorry about your situation Sid, that would be a little embarrasing.

I am not embarrassed for me, but I am for avalon.
The autocratic way of doing things is not the way ahead.
I asked questions and was just given the wall of ''we don't discuss peoples applications with other people'' bull****.
That is the cop out way of dealing with it.
This site deserves better than this.

I'd love to hear what Bill has to say regarding this... or anything.

[thunder24]

............................

[Lord Sidious]

I did not address you. i asked Sid, you know Lord Sidious for the answers. If they gave them to him, what is the rule that is broken?
Well, unless we (mods and admins) had some clear knowledge that the applicants gave Lord Sidious their answers with explicit permission that they be published on this forum, that would be violating their privacy to publish their application here.

Moreover, there is, knowingly and intentionally, some explicit separation of the application decision process from the public forum. My initial reaction, not having discussed this with the other mods or admins yet, is that we would not be well served to open up a public debate here on the specifics of a certain application, with that application posted publicly. If I saw someone's denied application posted, my initial reaction would be to take it down (remove it from public view), at least until such as time as when and if the moderator team, as a team, chose some other action.

They didn't tell me what they wrote and I wouldn't think it is a good idea to put that on a public thread anyways.
All I have asked them is why they were rejected.

[DeDukshyn]

I have invited a few people, but I always warn them that the application process is a bit tight, and to ensure they mention my name as a reference. I haven't had any trouble yet but that's likely because I haven't been convincing enough - none have actually applied ... yet.

If I thought one of my friends were unfairly disqualified (it would be a supposition), than I may just approach the mods to and ask them to review the application again and reconsider .. if that was done I would be satisfied with whatever conclusion was reached. My due diligence would be fulfilled, and I'd be satisfied that the mods did theirs to the best of their ability.

Sorry about your situation Sid, that would be a little embarrasing.

I am not embarrassed for me, but I am for avalon.
The autocratic way of doing things is not the way ahead.
I asked questions and was just given the wall of ''we don't discuss peoples applications with other people'' bull****.
That is the cop out way of dealing with it.
This site deserves better than this.

.. Yet none of us would want our private applications discussed with others either ... it's a tough one, but an open dialogue might be a bit better for complete resolution - even if it didn't change the outcome. I can support you as far as that, for sure, but in the same light without knowing any details, I cannot cast any criticism on the admins. Where subjectivity exists, subjective decisions usually follow ... I think the re-apply sugestion may be the best. Sometimes you have to go see a potential employer a few times before you can even land an interview ... such is life.

[Lord Sidious]

I have invited a few people, but I always warn them that the application process is a bit tight, and to ensure they mention my name as a reference. I haven't had any trouble yet but that's likely because I haven't been convincing enough - none have actually applied ... yet.

If I thought one of my friends were unfairly disqualified (it would be a supposition), than I may just approach the mods to and ask them to review the application again and reconsider .. if that was done I would be satisfied with whatever conclusion was reached. My due diligence would be fulfilled, and I'd be satisfied that the mods did theirs to the best of their ability.

Sorry about your situation Sid, that would be a little embarrasing.

I am not embarrassed for me, but I am for avalon.
The autocratic way of doing things is not the way ahead.
I asked questions and was just given the wall of ''we don't discuss peoples applications with other people'' bull****.
That is the cop out way of dealing with it.
This site deserves better than this.

.. Yet none of us would want our private applications discussed with others either ... it's a tough one, but an open dialogue might be a bit better for complete resolution - even if it didn't change the outcome. I can support you as far as that, for sure, but in the same light without knowing any details, I cannot cast any criticism on the admins. Where subjectivity exists, subjective decisions usually follow ... I think the re-apply sugestion may be the best. Sometimes you have to go see a potential employer a few times before you can even land an interview ... such is life.

It isn't that they were rejected.
I told the staff upfront I had invited them here, who they were and why.
They emailed me back to tell me they got rejected.
Paul knew what I had done and refused to discuss it with me to the point he decided to ignore me.
I wanted him to tell me that he had told the other staff members what I told him.
So my gripe is the lack of respect from staff in this case.
I am also trying to sort out what do we do in future?
Because at this point, I am not inviting anyone regardless of anything, to join this forum.

[Rocky_Shorz]

what do mods look for in an application?

all I told Bill was I pissed off the PTB with my free energy invention and want to join others who understand this world isn't fair...

he wrote back...

welcome to Avalon...

[Seikou-Kishi]

sid can we get a copy of their answers they gave?

peace

No, Thunder, we can't; membership applications, like private messages, are private.

Ollie,

I did not address you. i asked Sid, you know Lord Sidious for the answers. If they gave them to him, what is the rule that is broken?

peace

If you wish to address only Lord Sidious, Private Message him; I do not care that you did not address me and I shall give my answer whether you solicit it or not, not being bound to seek your permission. Also, my name is Oliver, not Ollie; if you wish to address me, you will address me as such.

All membership applications are private and are not posted for all to see. To suggest that we should post membership applications we are denying to the membership and ask for their review is akin to saying that we require your permission to refuse membership based on applications. We do not. The decision of the moderators team to approve or deny an application is the end of the process, unless a denied person wishes to reapply or to contact staff@projectavalon.net. No single moderator decides on applications; they are voted on by the moderators and that vote informs the decision. There is no provision in our protocol for genuflecting in supplication to the membership for every application in the hope of attaining approval.

[Lisab]

Thanks Shadowstalker I was jet going to post something similar. When I joined I was so nervous as I'd never felt compelled to join a forum before( I do love it here) thinking back my app was rubbish. I put something like interests David Icke and 2012 and that was it. So exactly-what's changed?
Oh yeah I joined around the Charles time. Hmmm
M

[ThePythonicCow]

When I answered the app to join the original forum and then this one, the answers I gave where of the bare minimum. simple and to the extreme point nothing more nothing less.
So where is the problem and what had changed so drastically that this couple was denied.

Good thing you're grandfathered (grandmothered?) in :).

We currently ask applicants to fill out more complete responses. The instructions include the following:
if you have a strong feeling that you should be a part of this community, please answer the questions below in as much detail as possible - so that we will have the same feeling as you do that you should join us.

(This answer may or may not be relevant to the particular case being discussed on this thread.)

[Fred Steeves]

I love all you nuggets, admin. and otherwise, so as Obama loves to say, "let me be clear".:p That being said, I've seen(clearing throat) some new people on here recently where I'm just left wondering:"What were they thinking"? I'll leave it at that...

Cheers, and Peace Out To All,
Fred

[ThePythonicCow]

Paul knew what I had done and refused to discuss it with me to the point he decided to ignore me.
That interaction occurred in a private Skype chat conversation.

I will not discuss here my view of that conversation.

See further the word "private" above ;).

[firstlook]

Reading all these posts has me trying to remember what I put in my application. I honestly cant recall.

[Seikou-Kishi]

I love all you nuggets, admin. and otherwise, so as Obama loves to say, "let me be clear".:p That being said, I've seen(clearing throat) some new people on here recently where I'm just left wondering:"What were they thinking"? I'll leave it at that...

Cheers, and Peace Out To All,
Fred

I can completely agree with that; there are some people who, despite their merits, do not really know how to tackle an application when they meet one, and others who have fewer merits, shall we say, but have a cynical talent for whistling a nice tune. Most of the time, we hope to catch the right people and let the right ones go — you ought to see some of the people we've refused before now. I cannot go into specifics, of course, but there have been people who seemingly thought this was a dating website, others who have clearly thought of Avalon as a super dairy ready to be milked for their commercial enterprises, and others who thought of it as a captive audience for their proselytising. By and large, I think we get it spot on.

[Ammit]

My dear lord Sidious

Why not just ask them to re-apply filling in all the questions to the fullest.!
Seems as though they answered a few questions which did not agree with the moderating team, surely, trying again would not hurt?.

[shadowstalker]

so lets see what the new app looks like? would that be possible?

[Rocky_Shorz]

you guys and gals must see some pretty bizarre things said on the apps, maybe you should have a disclaimed if any of the mods fall out of their chair laughing, your comment will be posted for all to enjoy...

[Lord Sidious]

My dear lord Sidious

Why not just ask them to re-apply filling in all the questions to the fullest.!
Seems as though they answered a few questions which did not agree with the moderating team, surely, trying again would not hurt?.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?26961-Invitations.&p=277374&viewfull=1#post277374

[Rocky_Shorz]

and others who thought of it as a captive audience for their proselytising. .

"Convert or attempt to convert (someone) from one religion, belief, or opinion to another:"

isn't all of our goals in everything we write to show why our opinion is the right one... ;)

[42]

and others who thought of it as a captive audience for their proselytising. .

"Convert or attempt to convert (someone) from one religion, belief, or opinion to another:"

isn't all of our goals in everything we write to show why our opinion is the right one... ;)

Er... no.. speaking for myself that is. Life is for learning, not preaching or trying to show why "our" opinion is the right one. IMHO.

[<8>]

Dear Lord Sidious...

I am sticking my head out here, maby..:P


Just tell your friends to write a new application. They maby thought wid the great Sidious on there side, there was no need to explain to much.
And what they wrote i am getting are privat, and that include you to?

Giv the Mods and your friends a few days to sort it out.

Lay back and crack open a cold one. Ahhhh tasty ... There are greater battles to fight my friend...:)

[Ammit]

My dear Lord Sidious

I did read that part but there must have been something that put the admin team off wanting to grant them membership. I have every faith in you but they ( your friends ) have to prove the point to Paul and the moderators.

[ThePythonicCow]

Post #52 will be deleted shortly.
Please respect fellow members.
Lord Sidious is on a short vacation.

[K626]

Knowing you Sid might have been the stumbling block. :p

love

K

[Magnus]

Greetings avalonuggets.
I want to put forward a suggestion and I want to see what the rest of you think.
What do we want the staff to do if we invite someone to join and they get rejected?
I had this happen today and the admin want to hide behind the veils of confidentiality.
I told them upfront this couple were looking to join and I told them who and what they were as well.
That is a cop out.
Why bother inviting people to participate if we are going to be told that?
This makes us look dumb.
What say the rest of you avalonuggets?

If you respect Bill, then he probably respect you too, you are a member too right? You can probably expect staff to be aligned with Bills own decision. I'm absolutely convinced that Bill's judgement is perfectly reasonable. I respect you and that is the reason i pay attention.

[Ammit]

Paul.

I understand Lord Sidious`s anger at his invitation of friends being rejected, as I also see your anger regarding the #52 comments and language, but , surely there can be an amicable way to resolve this issue without this thread getting out of hand and respected admin and member being angry with each other?.

A weeks vacation could possibly cause more problems and may even envoke a risk of losing what I believe to be a member of great inspiration and a valuable asset to this site.

[bitworm]

"Convert or attempt to convert (someone) from one religion, belief, or opinion to another:"

isn't all of our goals in everything we write to show why our opinion is the right one... ;)

I think it has to do with one converting another, as opposed to one converting him/her self. The first way (and the way I believe is meant by this rule) has to do with a lack of respect for opposing viewpoints, whereas the second way, ideally, would allow one to consider all viewpoints before forming an opinion.

[ThePythonicCow]

#52 comments and language

Amicable solutions require two to be amicable.

There is a point past which we admins and moderators will not let rudeness by one member to another stand.

That point may be a little fuzzy at times, but the team agreed it had been crossed in this case.

Short vacations are common in such cases, sometimes longer in the case of repeat or egregious offenses.

[Rocky_Shorz]

and others who thought of it as a captive audience for their proselytising. .

"Convert or attempt to convert (someone) from one religion, belief, or opinion to another:"

isn't all of our goals in everything we write to show why our opinion is the right one... ;)

Er... no.. speaking for myself that is. Life is for learning, not preaching or trying to show why "our" opinion is the right one. IMHO.

you need multiple sides of subjects to learn from them...

I have my opinion, you have yours...

who is right is up to the reader,

I'll be with you on one discussion, against you on another, but we're just friends having fun

¤=[Post Update]=¤





"Convert or attempt to convert (someone) from one religion, belief, or opinion to another:"

isn't all of our goals in everything we write to show why our opinion is the right one... ;)

I think it has to do with one converting another, as opposed to one converting him/her self. The first way (and the way I believe is meant by this rule) has to do with a lack of respect for opposing viewpoints, whereas the second way, ideally, would allow one to consider all viewpoints before forming an opinion.

don't take me too seriously...

I tried to give Sid a smile before he was sent out fishing...

[thunder24]

If you wish to address only Lord Sidious, Private Message him; I do not care that you did not address me and I shall give my answer whether you solicit it or not, not being bound to seek your permission. Also, my name is Oliver, not Ollie; if you wish to address me, you will address me as such.

All membership applications are private and are not posted for all to see. To suggest that we should post membership applications we are denying to the membership and ask for their review is akin to saying that we require your permission to refuse membership based on applications. We do not. The decision of the moderators team to approve or deny an application is the end of the process, unless a denied person wishes to reapply or to contact staff@projectavalon.net. No single moderator decides on applications; they are voted on by the moderators and that vote informs the decision. There is no provision in our protocol for genuflecting in supplication to the membership for every application in the hope of attaining approval.

Ok so Ollie is ok for chat room but not forum, didn't see that in the membership guidelines of discretion. I did not ask for the application, I ask for information and I did not ask you, so no you need not seek my permission, but why didn't you pm me if you wanted to address me. I gave you the benefit of the doubt in not understanding my words, which is why I said I wasn't talking to you. I didn't address you or Paul or Jake in search of the said application because I am aware that it is private.

and now that i read this post, I was correct you didn't understand my words.

I will attempt to be more clear next time, i appologize

peace

[blake]

#52 comments and language

Amicable solutions require two to be amicable.

There is a point past which we admins and moderators will not let rudeness by one member to another stand.

That point may be a little fuzzy at times, but the team agreed it had been crossed in this case.

Short vacations are common in such cases, sometimes longer in the case of repeat or egregious offenses.

Hello Paul, and everyone,

Humans are complicated beings, and sometimes those who have the power over a situation will only will see someone's elses rudness and seldom their own.

Sincerely,

Mr. Davis

[ThePythonicCow]

Humans are complicated beings, and sometimes those who have the power over a situation will only will see someone's elses rudness and seldom their own.
Indeed, there is that risk.

[Davidallany]

Lord Sidious is on a short vacation.
Why? we were exchanging information about swastika and history, among other things.

[ThePythonicCow]

Lord Sidious is on a short vacation. Why? .
You got here a few minutes late. I just deleted the post that I said, above, I would delete.

We ask that members respect each other (or at least not rudely display their disrespect.)

[Davidallany]

You got here a few minutes late. I just deleted the post that I said, above, I would delete.

We ask that members respect each other (or at least not rudely display their disrespect.)
You banned him because of one post? or because he questioned authority, Rabbi Paul!

[ThePythonicCow]

You banned him because of one post? or because he questioned authority, Rabbi Paul!
Seldom is it really for one post, but for a trend or a pattern, of which one post serves as a culminating example.

To the best of my self-understanding, he was not sent on vacation for questioning authority.

However you will have to ask someone other than myself that question if you want the view of someone who is evidently an independent and neutral observer.

[Sierra]

You got here a few minutes late. I just deleted the post that I said, above, I would delete.

We ask that members respect each other (or at least not rudely display their disrespect.)
You banned him because of one post? or because he questioned authority, Rabbi Paul!

David, He was rude. He called Paul a name that if you called Sid the same, I'd ban you. Yes, I'd ban you if you did it once in one post. I'd ban you for a week too.

[Davidallany]

independent and neutral observer.The only relatively independent and neutral observers are enlightened beings and those no more "oneness", the rest of us see what we want to see in this duality ridden matrix.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


I'd ban you. Yes, I'd ban you if you did it once in one post. I'd ban you for a week too.
Easy now Sierra, I didn't know Paul was called a name.

[Seikou-Kishi]

[/COLOR]
I'd ban you. Yes, I'd ban you if you did it once in one post. I'd ban you for a week too.
Easy now Sierra, I didn't know Paul was called a name.

That's why she was telling you :-) She knew you didn't know :-)

[Siberia9]

I have a question, do we allow cops and those working for govt agency's to join? These folks seem nice enough and they say all the right things but I can promise you that NO ONE that has worked for that team is welcomed in my yard, or do we have anything to talk about. I have family that work on that side and you can believe me when I tell you that they don't even know where I live. Not to throw hammers at LS or his friends, but cops... that seems off to me. So maybe that is the reason, no? Also I vote we bring back Lord Sidious, perhaps the Governor can grant him clemency for his crimes.

[ThePythonicCow]

Easy now Sierra, I didn't know Paul was called a name.
Lord Sidious might not agree with you right now, David :).

[Sierra]

independent and neutral observer.The only relatively independent and neutral observers are enlightened beings and those no more "oneness", the rest of us see what we want to see in this duality ridden matrix.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


I'd ban you. Yes, I'd ban you if you did it once in one post. I'd ban you for a week too.
Easy now Sierra, I didn't know Paul was called a name.

<bursting out laughing> Sorry David.

[thunder24]

Lord Sidious I hope you will comeback and thankyou for your contributions and standing up for what you believe in. Thankyou for being you.

I do hope your friends will re-apply. Moderation just "is what it is" as King Anthony and other friends say. Sometimes I'm thankful, sometimes I'm questioning its employment.

peace

[cheez_2806]

oh man...talking about applications...I can't really remember either what I wrote but I can remember how I felt...
To me it was like a job interview =o=....and to be honest I didn't type my all my intentions for others to see anyway. So it wasn't that truthful....kinda had to think it through, and it was like I thought~ OK what is the best way to write this, edit this edit that etc...um...so yeh, they could put in another application if they wanted to..although I know how it feels to be rejected and then someone tells you to try again....

For applications like those, for me at least, it's like a test, a gateway I have to pass through to see more and then I observe. Yeh...I don't really vote for applications and choosing the right ones etc but it is somehow important to have a system like that in the forum community. as it may cause some problems if there wasn't a procedure like this...

Ah~just like they say...everything has a good and a bad~ at least on this level of reality~ >_<

[Sierra]

Let me add: I post more than I ever have as a member. Virtually NONE of my posting is on the boards anymore. Almost all of it is in regards to applications. I can tell that is true because admin/mods have a display that shows a count for top posters in the last week. I am up there every week but you are not seeing the work. THAT is how much discussion goes on before we determine to accept or reject an application.

I am really annoyed with Lord Sid and his demand for special treatment. This is not the first time he has demanded that we break rules, privacy and infrastructure in place for the privacy of a member. I am thinking of a thread where he demanded we examine people's PMs. No. We won't. And we won't expose applications either.

Sierra

[DeDukshyn]

Well this thread is sure fun, but I don't see any resolution happening. It is understandable that Sid feels the way he does, it is understandable the mod team cannot discuss it, it is understandable the mod team gets the final say. In light of all this though I'm sure the mods are comfortable with their decision, or, re-looking at the whole situation if not ... what more is there to say? I hate paying taxes, but I still have to ...

[Seikou-Kishi]

I have a question, do we allow cops and those working for govt agency's to join? These folks seem nice enough and they say all the right things but I can promise you that NO ONE that has worked for that team is welcomed in my yard, or do we have anything to talk about. I have family that work on that side and you can believe me when I tell you that they don't even know where I live. Not to throw hammers at LS or his friends, but cops... that seems off to me. So maybe that is the reason, no? Also I vote we bring back Lord Sidious, perhaps the Governor can grant him clemency for his crimes.

Sid himself was a member of the RAAF... different tentacle, same Lovecraftian abomination.

[ThePythonicCow]

I have a question, do we allow cops and those working for govt agency's to join?
We do not determine membership simply on such basis, either way.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Sid himself was a member of the RAAF.
That's the Royal Australian Air Force, if I have my acronyms correct.

And I was a member of the USAF - United States Air Force.

[WhiteFeather]

Were all Gonna miss you Sid on your short leave, you are the straw that mixes the drink here, ya nugget. And im not blowing smoke up yee arse either. One of my favorite threads by you.

Some doctor on TV this morning said the way to achieve inner peace is to finish all the things you have started.
So I looked around my house to see things I'd started & hadn't finished, then I finished off a bottle of Vodka, a bodle of Baileys, a botle of wum, a pock of Prungles, an a boc a choclez.
Yu haf no idr how bludy fablus I feeel now. Plaese sned dhis orn to dem yu fee ar in ned ov iennr pisss

LMFAO

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?25477-Inner-Peace

[thunder24]

dang, he ain't here to speak upon this....come on now

peace

[DeDukshyn]

Paul.

I understand Lord Sidious`s anger at his invitation of friends being rejected, as I also see your anger regarding the #52 comments and language, but , surely there can be an amicable way to resolve this issue without this thread getting out of hand and respected admin and member being angry with each other?.

A weeks vacation could possibly cause more problems and may even envoke a risk of losing what I believe to be a member of great inspiration and a valuable asset to this site.

right you are, but where is this "rule breaking limit"? when do we start breaking rules? who gets special treatment? who doesn't? Why did he and not me? What good are rules if "some" people are allowed to break them? when do exceptions become the standard? what are the risks? have they been measured? I have been a manager of people (well, still am) and the only thing that works without bigger headaches is "no exceptions to the rules". -- but at the same time your rules have to be reasonable (and I think Avalon's are, at least until my first week-long-vacation ;))

[Seikou-Kishi]

dang, he ain't here to speak upon this....come on now

peace

I agree. Perhaps it would be prudent to close this thread.

[Davidallany]

So what do you priests and priestesses think will happen after one week to Lord Sidious? will he be happier? he's spilling his guts on Avalon, and he is sincere. As for insulting remarks, he's an ex military for the love of Pete, I think he just lost it.

[cheez_2806]

#52 comments and language

Amicable solutions require two to be amicable.

There is a point past which we admins and moderators will not let rudeness by one member to another stand.

That point may be a little fuzzy at times, but the team agreed it had been crossed in this case.

Short vacations are common in such cases, sometimes longer in the case of repeat or egregious offenses.

Is that really neccesary...we are all in this team all together - I don't think there's anything we can't get through or solve and
but this?..., as a moderator you do have the authority to do this, but in this way, it seems to me that it's the shortcut way for the moderators to deal with things.its like if anyone opposes, questions, alright and your attitude is bad, ok...I'll cut you off~bye~ is that it??
Ok..maybe you guys will contact him and solve the issue privately with him without bringing a hassle on the forum~...but you guys will allow him back for sure yeh??

amicable soultions require two to be amicable? In the posts above, to my understanding of the wordings neither sides have been amicable...and apparently LS is very angry. and the moderators might be too. I hope LS and the moderators understand the reasons for LS actions/language and I think L.S should step back and take a look at things from your perspective too.

I didn't get to the point to read post 52 and it was deleted...what ever it is, it could be so bad..but I understand...

ToT

[ThePythonicCow]

So what do you priests and priestesses think will happen after one week to Lord Sidious? will he be happier?
That's his call, not ours. We've seen it work both ways.

And, no, we are not priests and priestesses ;).

[WhiteFeather]

Maybe a response from Bill would be proper here Mods! To Calm These Waves so to speak. Our leader would be most appreciated here at this time, on such a sensitive thread.

[DeDukshyn]

So what do you priests and priestesses think will happen after one week to Lord Sidious? will he be happier? he's spilling his guts on Avalon, and he is sincere. As for insulting remarks, he's an ex military for the love of Pete, I think he just lost it.

Ya, but this: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?26961-Invitations.&p=277478&viewfull=1#post277478

[ThePythonicCow]

.its like if anyone opposes, questions, alright and your attitude is bad, ok...I'll cut you off~bye~ is that it??

No, the best of my ability, it is not like that.

Indeed, I tend to take more gruff directed toward myself than I would let pass towards others (in my obviously non-neutral view ;)), in part just to make it as clear as I can that what you ask is not how things are.

But I understand your asking.





A weeks vacation could possibly cause more problems and may even envoke a risk of losing what I believe to be a member of great inspiration and a valuable asset to this site.

right you are, but where is this "rule breaking limit"? when do we start breaking rules? who gets special treatment? who doesn't? Why did he and not me? What good are rules if "some" people are allowed to break them? when do exceptions become the standard? what are the risks? have they been measured? I have been a manager of people (well, still am) and the only thing that works without bigger headaches is "no exceptions to the rules". -- but at the same time your rules have to be reasonable (and I think Avalon's are, at least until my first week-long-vacation ;))


It is simply beyond our fallible human abilities to be perfect and machine like in applying rules.

We do the best we can to be fair and equitable, but we're dealing with human interactions here.

[Seikou-Kishi]

So what do you priests and priestesses think will happen after one week to Lord Sidious? will he be happier?
That's his call, not ours. We've seen it work both ways.

And, no, we are not priests and priestesses ;).

Damn, and here I was going to get you a new mitre for Christmas :P

[Davidallany]

Damn, and here I was going to get you a new mitre for Christmas
I really think you should go ahead with your original plan Oliver S.

[Andrew]

Well calling people a Dick with the power to ban you is not very clever. But a warning to not name call might of been sufficient.

One of my friends likes calling me a dick and it really pisses me off! So I can understand the ban lol

[42]

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?26961-Invitations.&p=277366&viewfull=1#post277366

[Davidallany]

we are not priests and priestesses
Of course you guys are. We bring our concerns to you, you either bless us with approval or damn us with denial. You moderate between people, decide what is good and what is not by approving or deleting posts and threads. Reprimand those bad. and comfort those who are good.Your robes' colors are blue, orange and red.

[ThePythonicCow]

But a warning to not name call might of been sufficient.
Sometimes such would be sufficient, yes ... depending in part on such things as what has gone down prior to that point, and on our estimation of whether such would have been sufficient or not.

[Davidallany]

So I can understand the ban lolI find it disturbing that you're getting a laugh at the expense of a valuable member's ban for a week, and the insult of Avalon's Administrator. I don't find the situation funny at all.

[Seikou-Kishi]

we are not priests and priestesses
Of course you guys are. We bring our concerns to you, you either bless us with approval or damn us with denial. You moderate between people, decide what is good and what is not by approving or deleting posts and threads. Reprimand those bad. and comfort those who are good.Your robes' colors are blue, orange and red.


We also grant indulgences, so if you're looking for a ticket out of hell and you have enough to fund a chantry, well then it's roses and rainbows for you, my friend.

[ThePythonicCow]

We bring our concerns to you, you either bless us with approval or damn us with denial. .I cannot damn your spirit, David.

Heck, an unenlightened geek such as myself almost certainly could not even find your spirit, unless it is written in C, shell, awk and Python computer code ;).

[Seikou-Kishi]

So I can understand the ban lolI find it disturbing that you're getting a laugh at the expense of a valuable member's ban for a week, and the insult of Avalon's Administrator. I don't find the situation funny at all.

I prefer to think he was injecting a little levity into the thread. It is good that he is not associating with an ego position and becoming so bogged down in all the seriousness and drudgery. I'd have thought a high minded approach such as that would have met with your approval.

[Davidallany]

We also grant indulgences, so if you're looking for a ticket out of hell and you have enough to fund a chantry, well then it's roses and rainbows for you, my friend.
Oliver S, is this addressed to me? sorry my friend if my posts are too much.

[Sierra]

Damn, and here I was going to get you a new mitre for Christmas
I really think you should go ahead with your original plan Oliver S.

Yeah ... we wore out the last one smack thumping each other over our application votes ...

[Seikou-Kishi]

We also grant indulgences, so if you're looking for a ticket out of hell and you have enough to fund a chantry, well then it's roses and rainbows for you, my friend.
Oliver S, is this addressed to me? sorry my friend if my posts are too much.

Ah I'm just having a little fun, it's not at anybody's expense. I couldn't help myself when you likened our Reverend Pastor to an administrator... wait...

[Davidallany]

I prefer to think he was injecting a little levity into the thread. It is good that he is not associating with an ego position and becoming so bogged down in all the seriousness and drudgery. I'd have thought a high minded approach such as that would have met with your approval.
Your approval is enough Oliver S, you have authority, I don't. So say whatever you want to say, but be honest and straight, don't hit under the belt.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Ah I'm just having a little fun, it's not at anybody's expense. I couldn't help myself when you likened our Reverend Pastor to an administrator
Not a pastor, but a Rabbi. Pastors are fakes, rabbis are cool. They rock.

[Seikou-Kishi]

I prefer to think he was injecting a little levity into the thread. It is good that he is not associating with an ego position and becoming so bogged down in all the seriousness and drudgery. I'd have thought a high minded approach such as that would have met with your approval.
Your approval is enough Oliver S, you have authority, I don't. So say whatever you want to say, but be honest and straight, don't hit under the belt.

Oh, you flatter me good sir! This is most indecent; I'm promised to another!

[Davidallany]

Oh, you flatter me good sir! This is most indecent; I'm promised to another!
Now you're talking, that was funny Oliver S. Now if only police acted this way the world would be a different place.

[Carmody]

I prefer to think he was injecting a little levity into the thread. It is good that he is not associating with an ego position and becoming so bogged down in all the seriousness and drudgery. I'd have thought a high minded approach such as that would have met with your approval.
Your approval is enough Oliver S, you have authority, I don't. So say whatever you want to say, but be honest and straight, don't hit under the belt.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Ah I'm just having a little fun, it's not at anybody's expense. I couldn't help myself when you likened our Reverend Pastor to an administrator
Not a pastor, but a Rabbi. Pastors are fakes, rabbis are cool. They rock.

Both a pastor or a rabbi can be real or a fake, it's all in the given person, so I judge neither.

Let it go Dave, we'll pick it up when Sid gets back. Perhaps it is a good thing that the Swastika direction the thread was going in has a cool down period. The thread did not get heated.... but the subject area is very very touchy.

I made that post ......and my internet was blocked for two hours. Not unexpected.

[Davidallany]

Let it go Dave, we'll pick it up when Sid gets back
As you wish my friend, over and out. I consider all to be like my brothers, and brothers argue sometimes.

[Omni]

Well I can understand Sidious' disgruntledness. When I recommend avalon I always say make sure you put effort into the application. Perhaps the officers or former officers listed their qualifications like a resume instead of simply saying things like "I intend to help out planet earth, i research all interesting info" etc. I trust the mods and admins here to do a good job on accepting or denying. However I am interested in hearing these officers or former officers story... I however am not interested in the app being posted. I am personally curious about it. But I do not think the mods have bad judgment(even though judgment is relative to a moment). And I think posting denied applications would do more harm than good.

One friend of mine has been denied(out of 4 applicants), however I forgot to say put me as a reference but maybe that was for the better.... I can respect that decision because he over-sensationalized his application, and had extremely terrible grammar and spelling. And also probably sent crude emails to the contact us function after he was denied(he was quite pissed lol).

I totally respect when people have dissent over the mods and admins here or in any forum, in events like this. But people need to remain calm, and keep a general mode of respect when they communicate. The mods here are not malicious or ill willed. I think that is very clear. They deserve nothing but respect even if they make a bad decision(which we are all capable of).

I do like LS, and I hope he stays. I sent him a plea to come back to Avalon when he went away. Maybe that had a little effect :) I will send him a mssg in skype asking him to plz stay.



I love all you nuggets, admin. and otherwise, so as Obama loves to say, "let me be clear".:p That being said, I've seen(clearing throat) some new people on here recently where I'm just left wondering:"What were they thinking"? I'll leave it at that...

Cheers, and Peace Out To All,
Fred

I can completely agree with that; there are some people who, despite their merits, do not really know how to tackle an application when they meet one, and others who have fewer merits, shall we say, but have a cynical talent for whistling a nice tune. Most of the time, we hope to catch the right people and let the right ones go — you ought to see some of the people we've refused before now. I cannot go into specifics, of course, but there have been people who seemingly thought this was a dating website, others who have clearly thought of Avalon as a super dairy ready to be milked for their commercial enterprises, and others who thought of it as a captive audience for their proselytising. By and large, I think we get it spot on.

LOL!!!!!! Thanks for the laugh :)

[Sierra]

<SNIP>
The mods here are not malicious or ill willed. I think that is very clear. They deserve nothing but respect even if they make a bad decision(which we are all capable of).
<SNIP>


Thank you Omniverse. :hug:
Sierra

[aranuk]

Two young well intentioned, moral, people with integrity to boot! What more can any human be? Why friggin' why are they not allowed to be joining our ranks????????? We and the Earth need all the good people on our side. Side by side!

Stan

[Anchor]

Yet another PR f**k-up for Avalon.

:(

I propose that the application system is broken, if a situation whereby applicants are "rejected" have no idea why. (Obviously it had to be with no explanation since they had to ask the person who invited them what had happened).

The applicants probably have no idea that some council sat in judgment of the application and spent some time on it. In fact just knowing that in the wrong light might actually make things worse. Rejected applicants -especially ones invited by active members - are going to feel either like ****, or that the process is a farce - therefore rejection must not be done lightly and it must be done with respect and it MUST ACKNOWLEDGE THE POSSIBILITY OF ERROR!

Why can't you guys running this place, admit the possibility that things may be going wrong here?

I can absolutely promise you that this does no good for the image of the site.

Please close this thread

Please make some changes to the way this is being done

Please talk to Bill about this - I know for a fact that he has vetoed many situations in which applicants were rejected by mods - laughably rejections dished out to people he or Kerry invited to the site!

I don't care about this specific situation.

Somethings broken and it needs fixing.

[DeDukshyn]

and others who thought of it as a captive audience for their proselytising. .

"Convert or attempt to convert (someone) from one religion, belief, or opinion to another:"

isn't all of our goals in everything we write to show why our opinion is the right one... ;)

similar to "Overlay" ... an interesting concept defined in a PDF book Jesterking posted ... here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?24905-WARNING-I-found-this-hard-to-stop-once-I-started)
I haven't finished it yet but I found this read a good brain exercise ...

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Yet another PR f**k-up for Avalon.
:(
.

I disagree completely, denial of application is not a PR ****up for Avalon ... period - watch how you word things -- this thread may well be though .. not because of content - I still think the mods do a good job, but of the premise of the context ... my 2 cents ;)

EDIT: Can we say a denial of application for work to a new company a PR ****up on that company's behalf? If you are the denied applicant for sure, with no bias of course ;) LOL ... let's all get back to reality shall we?

[Anchor]

Yet another PR f**k-up for Avalon.
:(
.

I disagree completely, denial of application is not a PR ****up for Avalon ... period - watch how you word things -- this thread may well be though .. not because of content - I still think the mods do a good job, but of the premise of the context ... my 2 cents ;)

EDIT: Can we say a denial of application for work to a new company a PR ****up on that company's behalf? If you are the denied applicant for sure, with no bias of course ;) LOL ... let's all get back to reality shall we?

I thought I worded it carefully enough :)

However.... I agree that it is not the denial that is the problem. I don't even have a problem with the notion of an application process.

I read this thread and thought this thread is a PR problem.

However the thread does validly expose further problems that need fixing and that themselves create bad PR (rejection) - especially in the context of this case.

I hope that clarifies why I support the idea of the thread being closed/removed and then some thought to the underlying issue here.

There has to be a better way.

[Rocky_Shorz]

it was not Sid at his finest...

I understand the frustration of getting someone to join and get denied, but the mods have done a great job at keeping rif raf out since the attack, even if that means letting some go that should be part of us...

if you would have calmed down I could of kept the mods laughing long enough to get your friends in...

there is always a way...

[DoubleHelix]

Well I just read this whole thread and frankly I'm not happy.

This place is going down hill in a big way, how can one carry on sticking up for Avalon like I did for so long after seeing something like this take place!

Absolute circus material, Sid won't come back.. so now we've lost one our most valuable members!

Congrats!

[Carmody]

You know, everybody that wants to join this website fills out a membership application, and all of those membership applications are reviewed by the moderators. We deny applications like we approve applications, but there's really only one person who decides whether we approve or deny an application: the applicant; their application is their chance to tell us why they should be a member, if they do not fill their application out satisfactorily, they will be denied. What does anybody think an application is? It's not a pretty and trivial waste of time we ask for just so we can ignore it and rubberstamp anybody who wants to come in.

Plenty of people are denied membership based on the contents of their applications. How many more people are there who do not get in and who do not have a Lord Sid to kick up a stink for them? The application process is there for a reason; if they wish to reapply and this time use the application as a chance to really show why they should be in, they are free to do that and their new membership applications will be assessed on its own merits.

that's a wrap folks!

end the thread with that, and it's a done deal.

Case closed, End of drama.

[Rocky_Shorz]

dumps a can of gas on the thread, lights a match and tosses it over my shoulder...

looks down and sees Quotes on Marijuana...

that was my last match... dang it...

[DeDukshyn]

Yet another PR f**k-up for Avalon.
:(
.

I disagree completely, denial of application is not a PR ****up for Avalon ... period - watch how you word things -- this thread may well be though .. not because of content - I still think the mods do a good job, but of the premise of the context ... my 2 cents ;)

EDIT: Can we say a denial of application for work to a new company a PR ****up on that company's behalf? If you are the denied applicant for sure, with no bias of course ;) LOL ... let's all get back to reality shall we?

I thought I worded it carefully enough :)

However.... I agree that it is not the denial that is the problem. I don't even have a problem with the notion of an application process.

I read this thread and thought this thread is a PR problem.

However the thread does validly expose further problems that need fixing and that themselves create bad PR (rejection) - especially in the context of this case.

I hope that clarifies why I support the idea of the thread being closed/removed and then some thought to the underlying issue here.

There has to be a better way.

I'm a quick thinker ... haven't come up with an idea yet, I have accepted that this is just what happens sometimes. Let's consider that the mods did some research and found things that made them question the applications? Let's get rid of mods and run this ourselves .. wait, bad idea ... in other words there's little to be done that can be discussed here. Any suggestions?

[Carmody]

As well, huffy emotional posturings are for incarnation noobs.

Be careful or my old ass incarnation junkie self - will pwn you. :p

[ThePythonicCow]

The applicants probably have no idea that some council sat in judgment of the application and spent some time on it. In fact just knowing that in the wrong light might actually make things worse. Rejected applicants -especially ones invited by active members - are going to feel either like ****, or that the process is a farce - therefore rejection must not be done lightly and it must be done with respect and it MUST ACKNOWLEDGE THE POSSIBILITY OF ERROR!
As we state in our email sent to declined applicants:

We do know that it is impossible to get to know someone thoroughly via a simple application form, and if you feel we have made a mistake or have misunderstood you, please write back to us at staff@projectavalon.net, and we'll be pleased to hear from you again.
I also repeatedly offered Lord Sidious the same advice earlier today, both in private discussions and on this thread, IIRC: suggest to the declined members to inquire to staff@projectavalon.net. That suggestion was not one he accepted.

We handle many applications each day with a limited, volunteer, part time staff. We will get some wrong, we will not notice, or be told of, things we could have used to make a different decision.

Our procedure absolutely does acknowledge the possibility of error. This does work; membership applications are reconsidered this way.

[Carmody]

The more I hear about this process, the more correct it sounds. It is literally designed to self correct, if issues arise.

And really, folks, it does not get any better than that.

[TWINCANS]

Maybe all parties in this three-way (mods, Rob, Feeleys) discomfort can remember that it's that time again... Dang Mercury Retrograde.

This one in Leo appears to be a call to truly LIVE FROM THE HEART.
"The Mercury Retrograde course correction occurs from August 2nd through August 26th. During this time our directions are revised, our environment is changed and our pursuits are carried to new levels. The Mercury retrograde is in the creative sign of Leo, prompting us to think outside the box, and listen to the calling of our heart."
* Mercury retrograde is an astrological time when things can go wrong, thus proving Murphy's Law.
* Be sure not to take things too personally. People will often say offensive things they didn’t mean around this time, because their thinking is clouded & their communication skills are on pause! If your best friend suddenly became the most insensitive person in the world, give him orher the benefit of the doubt.
* Take things with a grain of salt. Everyone is a bit confused, & people are much more inclined to change their mind once Mercury goes direct. Mercury can be a bit of a trickster — could it be that the next few weeks are a big karmic joke?!
* Read the small print on any contracts. Ask lots of questions.

Just some of the points I found on the alignment. Ulli can probably add tons more insight here. And yes I do understand that we are not 'victimized' by the energies at play, and should always rise above them.

I honestly feel that what Rob has been trying to bring to this group is the heart connection, not living only by the rulebook. But spoken through the fog of this tough astro alignment. There's more challenge out there for communication too - an incredibly difficult electromagnetic repulsion being caused by the comet - wait until Nov for that one to increase multi-fold). But back to Mercury Retrograde.

Rob connects to this group as a heartbased community. The pain we saw was him seeing that the community is not connecting back to him in the same way. Tragic.

[ulli]

Twincans...
Not only is Mercury retrograde, but also right now in the final degrees of Leo, conjunct the star Regulus, or Royal Star.
A time of regal conceit, of ego battles...
Kings don't back down, or they'll lose face forever.
Even though he was outnumbered by the entire team of mods he was counting on other Avalonians to join him in a showdown...not the way to go, if you ask me.
I read the post in question...he was definitely pushing his luck.
And he wasn't going to back off, until he had the mods do his bidding, that was clear.

[humanalien]

After reading all of this, i'm ready to eat my
http://paxarcana.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/carrots.jpg

and

http://www.evernewrecipes.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Chicken-Nuggets-Recipe.jpg

[Heyoka_11]

I have a question, do we allow cops and those working for govt agency's to join? These folks seem nice enough and they say all the right things but I can promise you that NO ONE that has worked for that team is welcomed in my yard, or do we have anything to talk about. I have family that work on that side and you can believe me when I tell you that they don't even know where I live. Not to throw hammers at LS or his friends, but cops... that seems off to me. So maybe that is the reason, no? Also I vote we bring back Lord Sidious, perhaps the Governor can grant him clemency for his crimes.

Sid himself was a member of the RAAF... different tentacle, same Lovecraftian abomination.

Hello Oliver,

As a former member of the RAAC (Royal Australian Armoured Corps), I have, by association, a keen interest in your intent here.

Would you be good enough to enlighten me, thoroughly?

Many thanks.

[TWINCANS]

Twincans...
Not only is Mercury retrograde, but also right now in the final degrees of Leo, conjunct the star Regulus, or Royal Star.
A time of regal conceit, of ego battles...
Kings don't back down, or they'll lose face forever.
Even though he was outnumbered by the entire team of mods he was counting on other Avalonians to join him in a showdown...not the way to go, if you ask me.
I read the post in question...he was definitely pushing his luck.
And he wasn't going to back off, until he had the mods do his bidding, that was clear.

Sorry but weren't all of the involved parties under the same influences? I didn't hear anyone back down. Even the couple in question - respectfully, another application wasn't submitted by them (yet).

[Seikou-Kishi]

I have a question, do we allow cops and those working for govt agency's to join? These folks seem nice enough and they say all the right things but I can promise you that NO ONE that has worked for that team is welcomed in my yard, or do we have anything to talk about. I have family that work on that side and you can believe me when I tell you that they don't even know where I live. Not to throw hammers at LS or his friends, but cops... that seems off to me. So maybe that is the reason, no? Also I vote we bring back Lord Sidious, perhaps the Governor can grant him clemency for his crimes.

Sid himself was a member of the RAAF... different tentacle, same Lovecraftian abomination.

Hello Oliver,

As a former member of the RAAC (Royal Australian Armoured Corps), I have, by association, a keen interest in your intent here.

Would you be good enough to enlighten me, thoroughly?

Many thanks.

My intention was to say that we do not turn people down for being, or for having been, members of things like police forces, the military, etc., and that Sid was proof of that, having been a member of the RAAF.

[ulli]

Twincans...
Not only is Mercury retrograde, but also right now in the final degrees of Leo, conjunct the star Regulus, or Royal Star.
A time of regal conceit, of ego battles...
Kings don't back down, or they'll lose face forever.
Even though he was outnumbered by the entire team of mods he was counting on other Avalonians to join him in a showdown...not the way to go, if you ask me.
I read the post in question...he was definitely pushing his luck.
And he wasn't going to back off, until he had the mods do his bidding, that was clear.

Sorry but weren't all of the involved parties under the same influences? I didn't hear anyone back down. Even the couple in question - respectfully, another application wasn't submitted by them (yet).

That's right, everyone is under that influence...even myself, when I would normally stay away from this type of conversation.
It would be interesting to see what is going on with others forums now...furs flying, I bet.

On the whole people here use restraint, and that's how it should be if communication channels are to be maintained.
That's the whole point of establishing protocols.

[Heyoka_11]

I have a question, do we allow cops and those working for govt agency's to join? These folks seem nice enough and they say all the right things but I can promise you that NO ONE that has worked for that team is welcomed in my yard, or do we have anything to talk about. I have family that work on that side and you can believe me when I tell you that they don't even know where I live. Not to throw hammers at LS or his friends, but cops... that seems off to me. So maybe that is the reason, no? Also I vote we bring back Lord Sidious, perhaps the Governor can grant him clemency for his crimes.

Sid himself was a member of the RAAF... different tentacle, same Lovecraftian abomination.

Hello Oliver,

As a former member of the RAAC (Royal Australian Armoured Corps), I have, by association, a keen interest in your intent here.

Would you be good enough to enlighten me, thoroughly?

Many thanks.

My intention was to say that we do not turn people down for being, or for having been, members of things like police forces, the military, etc., and that Sid was proof of that, having been a member of the RAAF.

Thank you for the quick reply.

I had originally written that I hoped you were able to disprove my suspicions. You have done just that. The way I read the threads, it could have been taken either way.

[Rocky_Shorz]

Kings don't back down, or they'll lose face forever.

Even though he was outnumbered by the entire team of mods he was counting on other Avalonians to join him in a showdown...not the way to go, if you ask me.


I was here with many others and he ignored us, he wasn't looking for help at the OK coral...


last I saw he drew his light-saber and dove into the battle

[TWINCANS]

That's right, everyone is under that influence...even myself, when I would normally stay away from this type of conversation.
It would be interesting to see what is going on with others forums now...furs flying, I bet.


Agreed and I'm not goin' lookin'.:behindsofa:

[cheez_2806]

Well I just read this whole thread and frankly I'm not happy.

This place is going down hill in a big way, how can one carry on sticking up for Avalon like I did for so long after seeing something like this take place!

Absolute circus material, Sid won't come back.. so now we've lost one our most valuable members!

Congrats!

oh no...it shouldnt be like this man...

[Karma Ninja]

This thread is a silly reminder of how overblown little things can become so quickly! It appears that any ego can suffer from entitlement.

We are by our natures a skeptical crowd but what a waste of time...taking a mods underpants and running them up the flagpole is too obvious a slap in the face.

Why not just close this thread and move on from this exercise...

[loveandgratitude]

Many private clubs that are worth joining often ask that somebody in the club recommends them. That they come with some sort of recommendation. Even jobs, committees operate this way. This guarantees some sort of like-mindness and similiar ideals to the cause or group. I would think that this type of forum would be looking for current members to advocate for new members as to assure continuity of the values that are discussed here.

Especially if a member is held in high esteem, then one would only presume that they would be recommending new members who would be of value. As always there is a probation period in which every member needs to prove their intent and sincerity as a valuable member.

I would expect that if someone is recommended by a current member of Avalon that the new membership should be given some prominence, preference and credence. This is a benefit that should be given to members.

Lord Sid, I look forward to your return and as always value your input, knowledge and humor.

[Heyoka_11]

Well I just read this whole thread and frankly I'm not happy.

This place is going down hill in a big way, how can one carry on sticking up for Avalon like I did for so long after seeing something like this take place!

Absolute circus material, Sid won't come back.. so now we've lost one our most valuable members!

Congrats!

oh no...it shouldnt be like this man...

Hey Cheez,

Sometimes mate, life's mop flops in a less than ideal fashion. The dust will settle.

[ThePythonicCow]

Why not just close this thread and move on from this exercise...
Threads like this seem to oscillate in and out of useful spaces.

When they are doing well, I hesitate to stop them.

When they are doing poorly, I hope for better times, not wanting to end on a sour note.

Only when threads really go to hell in a hand basket do I eagerly look around for the Close Thread button.

[Anchor]

The applicants probably have no idea that some council sat in judgment of the application and spent some time on it. In fact just knowing that in the wrong light might actually make things worse. Rejected applicants -especially ones invited by active members - are going to feel either like ****, or that the process is a farce - therefore rejection must not be done lightly and it must be done with respect and it MUST ACKNOWLEDGE THE POSSIBILITY OF ERROR!
As we state in our email sent to declined applicants:

We do know that it is impossible to get to know someone thoroughly via a simple application form, and if you feel we have made a mistake or have misunderstood you, please write back to us at staff@projectavalon.net, and we'll be pleased to hear from you again.
I also repeatedly offered Lord Sidious the same advice earlier today, both in private discussions and on this thread, IIRC: suggest to the declined members to inquire to staff@projectavalon.net. That suggestion was not one he accepted.

We handle many applications each day with a limited, volunteer, part time staff. We will get some wrong, we will not notice, or be told of, things we could have used to make a different decision.

Our procedure absolutely does acknowledge the possibility of error. This does work; membership applications are reconsidered this way.

Thanks for (re)clarifying this.

It helps to know this, and I am sorry I assumed that it would be otherwise.

I still think this thread should close.

John..

[ThePythonicCow]

Several have suggested along the way that this thread should be closed. In a few minutes I shall do so.

[Carmody]

Word!


Last..heh heh.....

[loveandgratitude]

Bring back lord sid......................love love love love to you all................................

[ThePythonicCow]

Carmody got the [next to the] last word :)

This thread is closed.