Science confirms survival after death

[Muzz]

A group of British scientists, including two astrophysicists, a thermodynamicist, and other professional researchers, are conducting experiments and solving complex equations that they believe furnish conclusive and irrefutable proof of human survival of bodily death.

read more (http://www.cfpf.org.uk/articles/background/snyder.html)

[stomy]

Eternity after death :) :party:

[Muzz]

Michael Roll Interview with Lou Bondi


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAt0zeiiAc8

[Omni]

Absolutely fabulous article. Some snips I liked or thought relevant:


Another investigator, Dr. Glen Hamilton, MD, of Winnipeg, Canada, a member of the Canadian Parliament and long-time psychic researcher, carried out later experiments which closely paralleled Crookes', and achieved comparable results. His research sessions were also marked by manifestations of, and communication with discarnate entities. All of these occurred under closely-controlled, replicable, conditions, including a battery of fifteen flash cameras which photographed the apparitions from all angles simultaneously. Scientific observers who were present at these experiments included four other doctors, two lawyers, and two engineers. All of these witnesses stated unequivocally that "time after time, we saw dead persons materialize." In well over a century, there has never been an explanation put forth for these hundreds of scientifically validated manifestations and communications being anything other than what the experimenters claimed them to be, that is, paranormal, or "psychic" phenomena.

Roll balks at the term "psychic," however, preferring instead to talk of "sub-atomic" phenomena. This he perceives as beginning with the separation of the human mind from its bodily shell, a natural and universal function that takes place at the end of physical life.




The mind, retaining all of the memories, emotions, and intellect that it possessed on the material plane, then moves on to its next level of existence. This event occurs without regard for an individual's religious belief and/or good behavior, or lack of the same, during his or her physical existence.



The term "sub-atomic" refers to the many particles that compose the atom. There are over two hundred of these so far discovered, in addition to the generally well known electrons, protons, and neutrons. An electron is part of a family known as leptons. Its companion protons and neutrons are constructed of a similar sub-atomic group known as quarks. It has been postulated by a number of physicists that another sub-atomic particle, the neutrino, may account for ninety percent of the previously "missing" matter in the universe.



Put quite simply, Pearson sees post-mortem survival of the human psyche as one of many functions of a multi-dimensional, multi-universal, sub-atomic grid matrix, on which all forms of life exist, and which sustains the etheric, as well as the physical consciousness of all living organisms.


Scott makes the point that sub-atomic physics, as explored by him and other researchers worldwide, no longer views the building blocks of the universe as discrete particles of solid substance, but rather as vague, wavelike structures whose existence borders on the ethereal.




Professor Fred Alan Wolfe, although not a member of the British group, seems to concur with their findings in his book "Mind and the New Physics". In it he states that "as fantastic as it may sound, the 'new physics' called quantum mechanics posits that there exists, side by side with this world, another world, a parallel universe, a duplicate copy that is somehow slightly different and yet the same. And not just two parallel worlds, but three, four, and even more...! In each of these universes, you, I, and all the others who live, have lived, will live, and will have ever lived, are alive."



This rings so much more true than a 'loving' god sending confused people to en 'eternity of suffering' for being confused or not accepting someone as their lord... lol. Of course the religious crowd will detest this science, as religion has always been against science. At least now these scientists can't be crusified or burnt at the stake as they were in years past:

Roll, as spokesman for the group, has drawn the wrath of religionists and spiritualists by his denial that belief in a supreme being is a necessary condition for next-world survival. His assertion that religious faith, or lack of it, is irrelevant in the context of continuing afterlife has placed him in direct conflict with the established churches, especially certain Christian denominations, and some of his fiercest foes are to be found in this camp.

This rings so true to me, to my core:

To refute the concept that faith in a supreme being is necessary for afterlife salvation from eternal punishment, Roll states unequivocally that life continues on in the next dimension without divine intervention or retribution, regardless of one's religious beliefs or lack thereof.


From information received through these contacts, he describes the afterworld as having many of the same conditions that are found on this physical plane. One significant difference seems to be that the environment experienced by each person is wholly dependent upon that individual's behavior while incarnate. Punishment for wrongdoing, if any, is meted out to oneself by oneself, after undergoing a review of the past physical life. There are infinite and varying levels of existence, and advancement to higher planes is within the reach of every inhabitant of those realms. Roll outlines his philosophy in a quote from his booklet "The Physicists' and Rationalists' Case for Survival After the Death of Our Physical Bodies:"

I personally can't wait for false religion to be PROVEN false by science. Will be a HUGE upgrade. hehe. That would be just as good as global first contact(wellll nvm but pretty dam good).


"Dying is as natural as being born; we all pass into the next world whether we like it or not. There is no special place reserved for Christians or members of any other sect. There are no social strata or racial barriers. We all graduate to the level we have earned by the development of our characters."

[Muzz]

I might be wrong but didn't Whitley Striebers visitor say that the afterlife (what he called the undiscovered country) and souls that had moved on were detectable by current technology. And that we needed to rediscover this science. Just a thought :)

Thanks Omni for your take on it.

[Omni]

This discovery may put new relevance to a thread I made a while back:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?25338-The-scientific-discovery-of-the-soul-The-implications#post263571

To highlight one part of my thread, the claims said to me telepathically, that there are certain triggers that have to be done before global first contact can happen given the order that exists amongst ETs. Scientific discovery of the soul being one of them.


Thanks Omni for your take on it.

yvw

[Corncrake]

What synchronicity! I posted this link two days ago but it received little interest so I'm glad it has generated more views this time around as it is such an important topic. I was interested to see yet again - as in UFO disclosure or the free energy movement for example - how scientists or anyone who questions the prevailing paradigm get marginalised.

[Arrowwind]

What they do not address about religious folks is the potential reality that we do actually create our reality... so those who dedicate mind heart and soul to a living god and a place like the proverbial heaven may create that reality on the other side..... a place of higher evolotuion so to speak.

Those who believe in nothing will be starting from scratch over there... lost in their dream without constructs, without guidelines, without a direction.

In Buddhism much prayer is done at the event of a death to help propel the the departed soul into the right world, a world of everlasting peace and evolution instead of the lower worlds filled with confusion and spirits that are disempowered and working out "lower Karmas"

I think these guys still have alot to learn.

and I can also say that what they have come up with so far is clearly along the lines of the Seth Material, Seth Speaks and the Nature of Personal Reality.... so nothing new here.

[Omni]

What they do not address about religious folks is the potential reality that we do actually create our reality... so those who dedicate mind heart and soul to a living god and a place like the proverbial heaven may create that reality on the other side..... a place of higher evolotuion so to speak.

Those who believe in nothing will be starting from scratch over there... lost in their dream without constructs, without guidelines, without a direction.

I don't resonate at all with this. Doesn't make sense to me. Why would a perfect multiversal design incorporate such mechanics? I mean are scientific athiest minded people not just as deserving as believers?

I think the model where advanced souls possibly ascend to a higher plane of existence while lower ones work out the kinks in earthly like realms far superior to what you just said. Maybe some advanced souls will incarnate down here again every so often if things need more balance etc. A lot is possible. I just don't see the truth being someone is bound to stay "lost" without direction for being logical minded instead of faith based... IIRC they found a specific gene that means someone will believe in God in some form.. Why would genetics decide the afterlife? Maybe velief alters the perception of what is happening. But I just don't think it's right that athiests would be condemned by the mechanics of the universe when people much more delusional get rewarded...

Also, some people believe they are hellbound. Do you think a perfect design would allow someone to believe their way into eternal suffering? Not a chance IMO.




In Buddhism much prayer is done at the event of a death to help propel the the departed soul into the right world, a world of everlasting peace and evolution instead of the lower worlds filled with confusion and spirits that are disempowered and working out "lower Karmas"

Interesting. Thanks.




I think these guys still have alot to learn.

and I can also say that what they have come up with so far is clearly along the lines of the Seth Material, Seth Speaks and the Nature of Personal Reality.... so nothing new here.

Everyone has a lot to learn. And your presented theory makes no sense at all IMHO. That might be why they don't consider it.

[Anno]

[...]
I personally can't wait for false religion to be PROVEN false by science. Will be a HUGE upgrade. hehe. That would be just as good as global first contact(wellll nvm but pretty dam good).
[...]

You can't prove a falsehood and Science (true Science) can't prove anything. It's not designed to. It's there to come up with and test theories and keep us moving from Less Probable to More Probable without ever being able to determine Impossible and Definite.
Whilst I like the direction the guy is going in, there are two major flaws. Continued use of the concept 'Death' and a failure to separate the benefits of Faith from the negatives of Religion.

This is why Science is a Religion without Faith. Which in my mind is worse than a Faith based Religion and capable of being far more harmful to the world.

[Omni]

[...]
I personally can't wait for false religion to be PROVEN false by science. Will be a HUGE upgrade. hehe. That would be just as good as global first contact(wellll nvm but pretty dam good).
[...]

You can't prove a falsehood
Yes you can. You can prove some things are false.


and Science (true Science) can't prove anything.
Science proved that you can beam radio waves and receive them and have it come in as radio did it not? Science produced cell phones which proved we can communicate with each other while we are far away, did it not? Some things can be observed, and proven without any doubt IMO.


It's not designed to. It's there to come up with and test theories and keep us moving from Less Probable to More Probable without ever being able to determine Impossible and Definite.
So you think all the radio stations broadcasting, we don't know that radio waves are how they are broadcasting? I think it's there to refine theories as well as prove things.



Whilst I like the direction the guy is going in, there are two major flaws. Continued use of the concept 'Death' and a failure to separate the benefits of Faith from the negatives of Religion.

Well the body dies. I think that's all they were talking about.


This is why Science is a Religion without Faith. Which in my mind is worse than a Faith based Religion and capable of being far more harmful to the world.

Science has potential to lead the world to new frontiers. Religion on this planet is ridiculous IMO. Buddhism isn't so bad. However Christianity, Islam, and Judaism are junk IMO. Stuff that spawns ignorance and other bad things commonly. They serve to divide humanity, keep us ignorant, close minds, kill off bright minds who threaten religion(in the past more than now), and stagnate progression IMO(not saying they don't have positive elements).

They have good aspects but those good aspects are possible without the old dogma of thinking the Bible is moreso the words of God than anything else. There is not much more ridiculous to me than thinking God has a son, and that son was sent to earth to be tortured and die to save us... I ponder, do these people think Jesus goes and gets tortured and dies on every planet with sin? So he goes and gets tortured and dies on trillions of planets out there? Ridiculous. It's shameful to the human race so many believe that IMO.

The faith argument I admit rubs me the wrong way. For example people telling me I have no faith, when those people think the entire world is going to end and more than half the people in the world will be sent to hell. ... At least I have faith there is no judgmental god waiting to send confused people to an eternity of suffering. I also have faith the world will not end soon.

People have faith in different ways. Athiest's have faith god is not so ridiculous and immature as to send a majority of the planet to hell for not worshipping him and jesus as their overlords with absolutely zilch evidence to say such beyond an old book men wrote....

The flaws in science and religion are really just flaws in man. When we grow up, neither will be a problem. And a delusional faith is still beneficial at times. I agree. But there are other ways of obtaining the same peace of mind and effects.

[Arrowwind]

What they do not address about religious folks is the potential reality that we do actually create our reality... so those who dedicate mind heart and soul to a living god and a place like the proverbial heaven may create that reality on the other side..... a place of higher evolotuion so to speak.

Those who believe in nothing will be starting from scratch over there... lost in their dream without constructs, without guidelines, without a direction.

I don't resonate at all with this. Doesn't make sense to me. Why would a perfect multiversal design incorporate such mechanics? I mean are scientific athiest minded people not just as deserving as believers?

I think the model where advanced souls possibly ascend to a higher plane of existence while lower ones work out the kinks in earthly like realms far superior to what you just said. Maybe some advanced souls will incarnate down here again every so often if things need more balance etc. A lot is possible. I just don't see the truth being someone is bound to stay "lost" without direction for being logical minded instead of faith based... IIRC they found a specific gene that means someone will believe in God in some form.. Why would genetics decide the afterlife? Maybe velief alters the perception of what is happening. But I just don't think it's right that athiests would be condemned by the mechanics of the universe when people much more delusional get rewarded...

Also, some people believe they are hellbound. Do you think a perfect design would allow someone to believe their way into eternal suffering? Not a chance IMO.



Absolutley, we believe our way into hell or heaven or any reality in between the two if our beliefs reflect who we truely are.. Are you expecting the multiverse just to fix all the BS for you?

No one said athiests are condemned. Athiests just exist without a god...both here on earth and on the other side as well, as long as they maintain that position. It is not a hell.

More than belief it is what you act on. Your actions reflect your true beliefs, not what is driviled from the mouth. So if you don't believe in god or you say you don't believe in a "christian" way but still you live an honest life, or a charitable life, or a compassionate life you will create a reality on the other side, not in hell, but in a similar vibrational quality to what you are in now that can be filled with compassion, generosity and kindness, simply becasue that is who and what you are... even if an athiest.

What it come down to is that you get what you are. If you are a lousy person you will have a lousy after life until you figure your way out of it....just like a lousy person on earth can learn and choose their way out of their lousiness right here and now when they are ready to.
If you expect and believe and know good things are coming and you have dedicated yourself to creating this type of reality on earth, then that is what you will get on the other side. It is a manefestation of soul evolution.

Those who believe in nothing get nothing because that is what they resonate with. If you believe not in a god or a christ but in justice and honesty and love then you will create for yourself a different kind of place than a "christian heaven" or a hell. It will resonate with who you are and probably can be very good place to dwell in. It all depends on where you put your passion, your intent, your energy, your focus, your beingness. If you put it all into x box as some people do the prospects may not be so hot on the other side,,, or perhaps it will be a great x box heaven where you can x box yourself, or something like that, in to oblivion for may eons.

If you are weak and filled with fear and longings and desires and have no internal point of reference for your soul to create through then you are lost in the Bardos until you sort things out.

Believe me or not, that is up to you. This is how I see it. You will believe what you want and create for yourself what you want here on earth and on the other side and I will do the same.

As I see it perfect design DOES allow you to believe your way into hell though the actions your beliefs spur, just like many people here on earth are in their own hell. A perfect multiverse is designed for your learning. You have to learn your way out of hell and into heaven or what ever you want to call a better reality. So one can suffer in a hell like condition until one gets it. As soon as you get it you move into another field of creative expression.

They say heaven has many mansions,,, so does hell. Each room in each mansion is specifically designed by the individual according to personal beleifs and tastes and the actions that those result in.

[Sgt-Bones]

I definately relate to what you've said and hope that all sentient beings get to satisfy or essentially live out their own particular equally special beliefs when they move on regardless of which "wrapping paper is put on it" through our limited language.

[Bollinger]

Muzz,

Many thanks for the videos and the information. It is refreshing to see something that is actually based on real science and scientists rather than just hearsay.

I don't know if any exist or even if it is possible to produce, but what I have not been able to find (in relation to the transmaterialisations) are any pictures or videos of the people who have returned from the other side to speak with people here in the physical. Are there any or do you or anyone else know of any link or website that has anything like that connected with these investigations? If so, I’d be grateful for the info.

Also, do you know what has happened to Michael Roll since the video in 2007 which you gave us on your post 3.

Again many thanks for bringing this information to our table. It was delicious.

Bollinger

[shadowstalker]

I might be wrong but didn't Whitley Striebers visitor say that the afterlife (what he called the undiscovered country) and souls that had moved on were detectable by current technology. And that we needed to rediscover this science. Just a thought :)

Thanks Omni for your take on it.

A ghost meter can do that, I have one.

[passiglight]

For me thermal dynamics covers this adequately and did so quite a while ago,,with my roughly abbreviated and somewhat translated version of the terminology,,,,,

Energy doesn't start or end it just changes,,,,

we are energy

[Muzz]

Muzz, Also, do you know what has happened to Michael Roll since the video in 2007 which you gave us on your post 3.

Hi Bollinger, I looked and didnt find much else on him. :)

[Forevernyt]

What Dreams May Come I believe is a perfect example.

[Nanoo Nanoo]

there is life after death ? woooow !

[Bollinger]

Muzz, Also, do you know what has happened to Michael Roll since the video in 2007 which you gave us on your post 3.

Hi Bollinger, I looked and didnt find much else on him. :)

Here is my contribution to the quest. (The embedded video did not work so here is the link instead)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4547643599106427733

[Lazlo]

I read this a while ago and the thing that jumped out of the article was that there is not a single link or even reference to any modern published works. I wasn't looking for peer reviewed necessarily, just something, anything to follow up on.

There is also quite a bit of language in the article that reads like the position paper of a believer, not a researcher.

When I read "Science confirms..." I expect something like references or source material.

Interesting either way, but I found it disappointing.

[Godiam]

What they do not address about religious folks is the potential reality that we do actually create our reality... so those who dedicate mind heart and soul to a living god and a place like the proverbial heaven may create that reality on the other side..... a place of higher evolotuion so to speak.

Those who believe in nothing will be starting from scratch over there... lost in their dream without constructs, without guidelines, without a direction.

In Buddhism much prayer is done at the event of a death to help propel the the departed soul into the right world, a world of everlasting peace and evolution instead of the lower worlds filled with confusion and spirits that are disempowered and working out "lower Karmas"

I think these guys still have alot to learn.

and I can also say that what they have come up with so far is clearly along the lines of the Seth Material, Seth Speaks and the Nature of Personal Reality.... so nothing new here.

My understanding of this is, Our thoughts create the way we perceive and experience our reality!.....Therefore if one has a strong belief in the churches concept of heaven, then this will be thier experience in the afterlife...... If one has no belief in an afterlife then they will experience nothing untill they can accept they still exist, albeit in thoughtform only!

I have seen a couple of movies where I think they have almost got it right!...One being Lovely Bones, where the young girl that has passed over comes to realise that she creates her experience in the afterlife!......The other one is What Dreams May Come, but it has been many years since I saw this one!

In a way, I feel sorry for the poor lost souls....that have had the churches concept of heaven and hell taught to them, to the point where that is all they understand about dying, and like many, have no concept that we create it all .......Imagine if they die feeling guilty about some supposed sin they believe they have commited......They wll create thier own version of hell, until they change thier mind! this could go on for eternity...Hmmm!

[Bollinger]

I am not endorsing or aligning myself with the information or observations or opinions of the ebooks at the following site (simply because I haven't read them all - yet) but I thought I'd give others the link so they can also download the ebooks and see for themselves.

Here is a link to a site rich with free ebooks on survival after death.

http://survivalebooks.org/

[Syl]

Oh.. I am starting to look forward dying! :heh:

[Anno]

[...]
I personally can't wait for false religion to be PROVEN false by science. Will be a HUGE upgrade. hehe. That would be just as good as global first contact(wellll nvm but pretty dam good).
[...]

You can't prove a falsehood
Yes you can. You can prove some things are false.


and Science (true Science) can't prove anything.
Science proved that you can beam radio waves and receive them and have it come in as radio did it not? Science produced cell phones which proved we can communicate with each other while we are far away, did it not? Some things can be observed, and proven without any doubt IMO.


No and no. Science can predict a probable outcome under set circumstances. That is all. It may be simplified into a set of general rules that people believe are facts but they are still wrong. What temperature does Water boil at? 99% of people will say 100 degrees Centigrade. Yet that is only true under certain circumstances. Altitude, Air Pressure, Purity of the water etc. There is no real universal boiling point. The same is true for all 'scientific' facts.

They can give you a probable outcome based on your current circumstances but in an infinite universe of infinite variables you never know 100%. That is why probability never reaches 1, just 0.999999999999999999.

First there was philosophy, then when faith was added it became Science. Science is a religion like any other. Athiests believe there is no God and ridicule religious believers for believing there is. Yet they both believe something they can't prove.



Well the body dies. I think that's all they were talking about.


The body doesn't die. Death implies an end or destruction yet that doesn't happen. Every last part of your body is re-used and continues to exist after you have left it. Every part of your body existed before you in other 'bodies' or 'forms'.

Science is a religion based on the faith that you can get solid answers and truths yet this viewpoint isn't held by true scientists. They will all tell you what I said at the start of this post. Science can only predict an outcome under given circumstances.Change the circumstances or throw in an unknown variable and the 'rule' collapses.

[Arrowwind]

All in all I feel sorry for those who need science to confirm their after life. It means that they have not made a spiritual connection though their own self knowledge.