My belief in alien life, does not contradict my belief in god (or source)!

[jagman]

During discussions with my friends or relatives I do not know how many times I've heard it?
Why doesnt the bible mention alien life? My answer to this is, God (or source) is an all knowing being, who tells us what we need to know! He is not required to tell us his plans for the universe! Lets try to define angels or demons for a moment.
Angels and demons were not created here on earth. They were created in the heavens!

Thus, does that not make them alien? The history channel has a great series on right now its called Ancient Aliens, its in the 3rd season of production.I highly recommend it!
I know what some of you are already thinking! Ancient Alien theorists believe that we were visited by aliens thousands of years ago,and early man took what they saw and interpeted to be divine or God like!

I guess what im proposing is that, There is room for all kinds of opinion on the subject!
Whether it be Chariots of the Gods or the bible! Anyway thats my take on the subject
and I welcome yours.

[Jake]

Much of the Bible does tell stories of Alien encounters. They are masked. Open up to Ezekial, and just start reading. You bring up a good point. The angels and demons of the Bible seem to be the Aliens of today. Or better yet, the aliens of today, used to pawn themselves off as angels and demons, of yesterday. The accounts of 'serpents of old' and other descriptions of demons is, in part, where David Icke gets some of his conclusions regarding the 'reptilian' races.

[RMorgan]

Maybe because all things that are written on the bible should not be taken for granted.

It´s a book, a great book, but it was manipulated for centuries. Certain things were deliberately taken from it, other things were deliberately added to it, some specific words were changed, lots of things got "lost" in between translations...

Of course, your point of view makes sense, anyway. God is not from Earth, so God itself could be called an alien, for sure.

[Omni]

Those same people will squirm to find a reason it doesn't mention alien life once alien life is proven. They will surely rationalize it when that day comes.

Try this argument on for size maybe(with christians):

"Jesus will come again will he not? Do you think he will not bring new lessons? 2,000 years ago humans were very primitive. The lessons needed then were moral ones, not explaining the entire universe. The lessons and messages of God in the future are bound to be more complex."

or this one:

"Who are you to limit what God is capable of doing?"

or

"It doesn't say ETs don't exist in the bible either. So your argument is flawed"

or

"maybe the Nephilim were aliens?"

Personally, I think the bible being the words of God is blasphemy. I say blasphemy because every lesson I've ever heard from it I figured out on my own or found value in it on my own(not to say I am a perfect human being). And I don't need it to be moral. If I believed it it offers me nothing but delusions(IMO) about homosexuals, or odd thoughts about god punishing more than half of the beings in creation for being confused... Not even being horrible human beings. Horrible human beings can believe in Jesus and goto heaven. Yet wonderful altruistic kind people who are buddhists go to hell? No sense in that IMHO.

I don't know if God exists. The argument, "well SOMEONE had to make it" is critically flawed. Did someone make God? No? Then why couldn't the universe/multiverse/omniverse just exists in infinitality as well? There's a contradiction in that argument...

I'm not saying God doesn't exist. I'm just saying every argument I've ever heard from a christian, muslim, or Jewish person was critically flawed.

I do believe whatever it is at the top, always existed and always will. I see it as very possible universes are connected and act in a cyclical fashion, and always existed in such a manner. If God being who he/she/it is ALWAYS is possible, than why not that?

Much respect for you being capable of having an open mind about ETs and being christian(if you are, seems so). You are a rare breed. No disrespect at all from me to you just because we believe different things. I hope you didn't see any of this post in that manner.

[RMorgan]

This one may sound polemic, but we have more proves about the existence of aliens today, than we have about the existence of Jesus.

Ps: Don´t ever say that to a fanatic person.

[Cidersomerset]

Hi Jagman we are all 'god' so if you want to believe there is a daity somewhere no problem. You are a 'wonderfull human creator' so you can have whatevever beliefs you want...
Just don't listen to organised religions thats where the human spirit gets trapped in dogma....

Ion quotes the bible a lot and he explains if you interpretate it from the viewpoint that you are the god it will make alot more sence....

http://informationfarm.blogspot.com/2010/08/ion-bible.html

Cheers Steve

[mojo]

There is even room in the equation to surmise there may even be other sentient beings with a free will to choose their path like us. Therefore demons, angels, humans and non-humans may all be a part of the bigger picture. Although I find it diffficult in determining the lines that seperate some of them.

[RMorgan]

There is even room in the equation to surmize there may even be other sentient beings with a free will to choose their path like us. Therefore demons, angels, humans and non-humans may all be a part of the bigger picture. Although I find it diffficult in determining the lines that seperate some of them.

Yes. As I´ve said on this other thread:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?27047-All-the-world--s-a-stage

It´s so unlikely that we ever come close to the truth, as it is unlikely for any of us, to go back in time and see the world through the eyes of a newborn child.

Possibly, we could only see what´s going on behind the curtains during two extreme occasions on our lives; When we born and when we die.

Maybe that´s why very young children have so pure smiles and sincere laughter. Maybe the very nature of this gigantic, elaborated and complex play is so simple, that if someone realizes it, there´s nothing to do but to smile and laugh.

[Krullenjongen]

This one may sound polemic, but we have more proves about the existence of aliens today, than we have about the existence of Jesus.

Ps: Don´t ever say that to a fanatic person.

That's a bit like comparing apples and oranges.
Jesus live 2000 years ago and you compare it with evidence for aliens that we have gathered in the last 50 years or so.
Is there as much evidence from 2000 years ago that aliens existed???

[Krullenjongen]

These video's might interest the readers of this thread.
The two video's are from a christian conference about aliens and it is a panel discussion with some christian preachers, ministers e.g.

The first question to the panel in the first video is "Do you think that God created (biological) alien life?
If you watch the first 20 minutes you have the answer from 7 christians including some more well known ones like Michael Heiser (from "sitchen is wrong")

4725759330034645589

Can't seem to get the first one to work so here is the link:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4725759330034645589


8605626213699833855

[Alien Ramone]

Since we don't know, there should be room for many different ideas.

Here is a quote from Onyx Knight, which I found interesting (in his response to Sir Eltor):
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?15909-My-ET-contact-experiences--discussions-Q-A-panel-etc.-&p=179457#post179457

I will need a bigger post for explaining that in detail (and I will make such a post soon), but for the sake of getting an answer right now, I will share something in short:

This Multiverse/Omniverse, has always existed. But it hasn't existed this way from always. To explain it in words that people would be able to understand, we need to look at the origin, or 'source' of the whole multiverse as an entity, or being. Think of the Multiverse as the sub-consciousness of "God" if you will. It would be easier to understand.

We are projections of a "dream". Of a "sleeping God". If one was to find out all the secrets of the universe, it would find a way to circumvent all its laws. As such, you become omnipotent. As omnipotent, you become "God", or more specifically, an "awakened" fragment/particle of "God". You join the source in its "awakened" state.

It sounds quack, I know. I had a lot of time pass before I swallowed even the basic aspects of this information.

Apparently, the "Source" of this Multiverse, decided to try out a 'different' experience and "fell asleep", thus creating the Multiverse. Now, how do I explain the fact that it has always existed?

Maybe if one was to read the definition of Omnipotence more closely, would understand a bit better. Time for the "source" itself, and for cosmic projections like us and other aspects (ETs, etc.), is not the same. We would consider it has always existed because of its cyclic nature. For "it", assuming we can put in some kind of category of what we deem 'sapience', it is probably just began to "sleep". I have no idea how to explain it in a better manner.

If I knew how to explain it, and figure everything out, like I said before, I wouldn't be here, I would be rejoined with the "Source".

You only "wake up" when you know you are dreaming right? What would happen if every single aspect of this Multiverse, gained full awareness? End of the "dream" and "subconsciousness".

I will have to find some other words to explain this, because as I'm reading this I think many would get even more confused than they were before with the nature of the Multiverse.

Sorry I can't be more elaborate.

I have the concept of it precise and clear in my head, but its like trying to explain the leaf of an idea to the atoms inside it, and then proceed to explain the branches and the whole tree. Its very, very difficult. We don't have words, terminology, nor concepts to be able to explain these things.

[RedeZra]

it is possible that UFO's are entirely man-made in some of the more secret and off-limit military bases in the US and perhaps elsewhere too

therfore spotting UFO's are not necessarily evidences for extraterrestrial life


then there are the stories about 'alien abduction' which are extraordinary to say the least

but the secret military might be involved here too as some abductees report seeing ordinary humans in uniform together with the 'aliens'


science know that the mind can be more or less hypnotized to see and act as told by suggestions in a hypnotic state

so experiences under hypnosis might feel subjectivly real but are not objectivly real at all


to complicate matters even more there seem to be non-corporeal lifeforms around which are capable to interact with matter and mind

[bonnyhut]

Well, i certainly believe in Source and aliens and certainly do not believe in religion to a large degree (but its not all bad.) Many religions (especially christianity) dont like to believe in aliens for Jesus did not have the aliens sins in mind when he died on the cross and satan does not seem to dwell on their planets as much.... unless he is a really busy man / beast and truly gets around (which I suppose is possible.)

[Omni]

it is possible that UFO's are entirely man-made in some of the more secret and off-limit military bases in the US and perhaps elsewhere too

therfore spotting UFO's are not necessarily evidences for extraterrestrial life

I think the word you are looking for is "proof". Evidence is just something you accumulate to reach a conclusion. It certainly IS evidence for alien life. Just not solid evidence. Evidence can point to falsities.

But do you think humans have had anti-gravity craft for over 500 years? Here are some paintings that point to extraterrestrial UFOs, not manmade:

http://www.crystalinks.com/ufojesus2.jpg
1700's painting

http://www.crystalinks.com/ufojesus.jpg
also a 1700's painting

http://i528.photobucket.com/albums/dd330/omnisense/madonna1nh0.jpg?t=1275529006
1500s painting

http://www.crystalinks.com/ufomaryhead1.jpg
1400s painting

I don't think it's coincidence that religious characters in our history are connected to UFOs. But I could be connecting a fallacious dot. I'm not sure sure I am though... Also, a virgin giving birth? I'd believe ETs did that before God. And if ETs did it, wouldn't they be a hand of God? That's my philosophy on it, or one of them anyway.


then there are the stories about 'alien abduction' which are extraordinary to say the least

but the secret military might be involved here too as some abductees report seeing ordinary humans in uniform together with the 'aliens'

I think there is little doubt the military is involved in both UFOs and abduction. However ETs being involved in some as well is also something I have little doubt about.



science know that the mind can be more or less hypnotized to see and act as told by suggestions in a hypnotic state

so experiences under hypnosis might feel subjectivly real but are not objectivly real at all

to complicate matters even more there seem to be non-corporeal lifeforms around which are capable to interact with matter and mind

I don't think the OP is saying ETs are here(IIRC he/she didn't specify). More just that ETs exist in the universe. I doubt you'd argue that. Anyone who would argue that I think I'd end the conversation there. lol. Maybe talk about what they actually know about ;)

[RedeZra]

it is possible that UFO's are entirely man-made in some of the more secret and off-limit military bases in the US and perhaps elsewhere too

therfore spotting UFO's are not necessarily evidences for extraterrestrial life

I think the word you are looking for is "proof". Evidence is just something you accumulate to reach a conclusion. It certainly IS evidence for alien life. Just not solid evidence. Evidence can point to falsities.

But do you think humans have had anti-gravity craft for over 500 years?

yes spotting a UFO is not a proof for extraterrestrial beings

since the UFO could be man-made or supranatural as we live in a supranatural world ; )

[zelda]

I have a question, in regards to aliens, religion, spirituality, etc.....What happen to the souls after they leave the body? Anybody can say, Oh! they go to heaven; well.... the souls, the spirits, do they transcend to another planet? Become beings from other dimensions, but inst that what aliens are as well? Does anyone have a clue?

[jagman]

I would Like to thank all of the Avalonians who participated in my post today! I have read all of your threads and found them to be quite fascinating!
No one got mad, and everyone expressed there opinion in a highly controversial subject! I do believe our humanity is what binds us all together!

[Maia Gabrial]

Most Christians don't have a good concept of GOD. Look at what they're being taught. For instance, He's judgmental and ready to punish all. Does that even sound like unconditional love? As Deepak Chopra said in one of his books, the moment you try to describe GOD, then you've limited your concept of Him/Her and put Him/Her in a box. GOD is beyond human comprehension and description. So, IMO GOD isn't limited to what we think we know about Him/Her. If people can't get past that, then they'll have a hard time believing that GOD can and has created unimaginable lifeforms throughout the universes.
IMO they first need to understand that GOD is much more magnificent than they've been taught. Being pure unconditional Love is part of that truth....And that GOD is NOT limited in any way.... that includes what is created....
This is what I truly believe.

[etheric underground]

Religion and the bible for the unawakened are tools that were
devised to disable our connection to the cosmos amongst other things( which includes our link to who dwell there)
By connecting to our inner sanctum which in turn provides us a pure connection to our star brothers and sisters
by expanding concious intent and creativity no biblical transcript or dogma can sway our true awesomeness.

[Maia Gabrial]

Getting people to believe this is the hard part, EU. Once the truth is out, then they'll understand. But until then.....

[WhiteFeather]

Just simply tell your friends that God created the universe, and Gods creations are very vast and infinite beings in this universe. That we may in fact be primitive aliens. And the aliens are modern man.
Who Wrote The Bible, Well Its A Very Simple Answer. Man Did. And Enough Said. So if man wrote the bible he then could manipulate anything with relevance to a religion or the metaphor i use is an organized baseball team. This book was written to confuse and distort the truth of mankind or should i dare say, us the sheep.

[Karma Ninja]

I don't think there is any issue with seeing these two beliefs coexisting. Why can't a person believe in God and Aliens? Once you accept that there are or might be aliens, then you need to ask where they came from. Even if we are an alien/earth species-hybrid something gave our creator a beginning. God can always come up as an possible alternative until the truth is known. God or spontaneous universal creation. Either guess sounds good to me ;o)

[KosmicKat]

...I do believe our humanity is what binds us all together!
My heartfelt hope is that when we meet people from off-world, we will find the same thing, even if there are minor differences in the vessel.


Who Wrote The Bible, Well Its A Very Simple Answer. Man Did. And Enough Said.
Three hundred years ago John Wesley asked the same question. His answer: "Good men or angels could not write such a book and claim it was the work of God. Bad men or demons would not write such a book* and condemn themselves."

*I can't help thinking he may have been one of those people who read the Bible with a pair of scissors handy to cut out the passages that were inconvenient.

[Krullenjongen]

Most Christians don't have a good concept of GOD. Look at what they're being taught. For instance, He's judgmental and ready to punish all. Does that even sound like unconditional love?

If God would not judge than he would not be righteous.
And besides that, no one has to be punished because because He also gave us a way to be forgiven so that no punishment would have to be endured by anyone!

That sounds like unconditional love.

[Jake]

God is an angry god; god is a judgemental god, god is a jealous god, god is a spiteful god, god is a vengeful god, ,,, (Jesus taught that these things were sinful.)

This is why I will not worship the 'god' that is presented in the bible,,, I'm not sure i would even let someone like this in my house.

[Fred Steeves]

Jake, I trust you're talking about that tyrant named Jehova?

Cheers,
Fred

[Jake]

Jake, I trust you're talking about that tyrant named Jehova?

Cheers,
Fred

Indeed,,, Cheers, Jake.

[greybeard]

God is an angry god; god is a judgemental god, god is a jealous god, god is a spiteful god, god is a vengeful god, ,,, (Jesus taught that these things were sinful.)

This is why I will not worship the 'god' that is presented in the bible,,, I'm not sure i would even let someone like this in my house.


Thats the god of the old testament,
The God of the enlightened sages is pure unconditional love.
Unconditional love is incapable of judgment or human traits like the ones you mention.
The word sin is also a miss translation-- it means to fall short of the mark.

Chris

Ps the old testament was not in the original bible and was adden in by the council of Nancia? cant spell.
The original bible spoke of reincarnation I believe.
c

[Martin]

Let us never confuse religion and that what in general is called god. The first thing is made by men (or quickly became "obsessed" by him) and therfor has all its disavantages (as well as its advantages of course) and the second "thing" can merely be discribed as "the one thing that needs to be". So what I am getting at is that if we try to define the one thing which with it all began than we quickly become unable to cope with its "reality" and yet it's excatly therefor that we know that it is the one thing we tried to discribe. "God" is all. All possibilities, endless creation. Religions are finete.

God, angels, demons etc. are foremost words. Trying to discribe what at the time could not be explained. The wonders of the past are the banalities of the present. It's all about the point of perception and about the understanding that comes with it.

Excuse my jibberish, just felt like it. :p

Martin

[RedeZra]

Ps the old testament was not in the original bible and was adden in by the council of Nancia?

the Hebrew Bible (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_Bible) was first translated til Greek - the Septuagint - between about 280-130 BCE

when Rome became an Empire and Latin had displaced Greek the Hebrew Bible was translated til Latin - the Vulgate - about 400 CE


so long before Jesus' advent the Hebrew Bible was translated into Greek ; )

---

there is no reason for God to be angry with a saint or a sage as those are dare devotees

can God be disgusted by vice and wickedness ? I believe so

[Nyce555]

I was raised a Christian, but I do not even take the Bible as the "Word of God" because God did not physically write the Bible and neither did Jesus. The many translations have lost the true meaning of the messages of th Early Christians who did write the Bible and even they were just men interpreting their own perseptions of what really went down. Somewhere in there some corrupt people got a hold of it and add in some nonsense and took out some of the good stuff.There are a lot of good messages to help guide a person to make the choices in life, and that is why I read the Bible from time to time, but ultimately it is my personal relationship with God I value the most. I can not put what God is into a box, but I know God is with me and everyone at all times, because we are apart of him/her.

I also believe in ETs and their presence here on Earth in the past and in the future. I belive they are also God's creations. They are like distant cousins to us. I hope to be able to meet one in this lifetime, but if not, maybe in the next. Who are we to narrow God's creations to just one planet and only the speciaes on this planet. That is such an arrogant and naive way of thinking that many people have.

[RedeZra]

Who are we to narrow God's creations to just one planet and only the speciaes on this planet. That is such an arrogant and naive way of thinking that many people have.

there could be life everywhere

but there seems to be an agenda pushing the belief that 'aliens' are our creators ?!

when we're not even sure about the nature of these 'aliens'

as they could very well be spirits masquerading as 'aliens'

[Daft Ada]

I don't understand why people who believe in some kind of god think that the existance of Aliens would mean that their god does not exist? Who do they think made the Aliens?

They seem happy to accept that in the incredible vastness of the universe, life will exist on other planets, well then aren't we the "Aliens" to them, and if you believe that a god made us, then god also makes aliens.

[Bollinger]

God is an angry god; god is a judgemental god, god is a jealous god, god is a spiteful god, god is a vengeful god, ,,, (Jesus taught that these things were sinful.)

This is why I will not worship the 'god' that is presented in the bible,,, I'm not sure i would even let someone like this in my house.


Thats the god of the old testament,
The God of the enlightened sages is pure unconditional love.
Unconditional love is incapable of judgment or human traits like the ones you mention.
The word sin is also a miss translation-- it means to fall short of the mark.

Chris

Ps the old testament was not in the original bible and was adden in by the council of Nancia? cant spell.
The original bible spoke of reincarnation I believe.
c

I’ve always been intrigued by the term “unconditional love” because people often use it without really thinking too deeply about what they mean by it. Conventional religions refer to their holiest object of worship by a straight forward noun such as God, Allah, Jehovah; but it seems modern day terminology such as “unconditional love” is being used to describe the main attribute of such an entity rather than name it. This is actually useful in that at least we know, to a degree, what we are talking about.

So, we have one attribute (love) that isn’t regarded as the absolute highest aspect of this God entity in the Old Testament but goes up rapidly in the new one. The transition is noteworthy because it means a change in philosophy occurred and history shows that the idea of love sits far better with the majority of people than say other characteristics such as omniscience, omnipotence and omnipresence. It’s no good having all these powers when they say nothing about whether the entity is a loving one or not. The three traditional definitions of God given above tend to be associated more with an autocrat than a loving God and so, unsurprisingly, the latter description resonates far more with people in general than the former.

The above observation actually says more about us (the people) than it does about our faith in “unconditional love”. It says that individually we long to be a loving person, we want all those around us to love us back, and if we must have an object of worship, we want that to be a loving entity as well. We don’t really care too much that he or she or it can create universes and know everything about everything so long as we can be assured that it is a loving entity. So, that sort of explains why we like the term “unconditional love”.

Now comes the hard question: is “unconditional love” actually possible? If we are to take its implication literally, it means you love everyone regardless of who they are, what they are, what they’ve done, what they stand for and all the rest of it. Even more difficult is to define what “love” itself is. Is it helping an old lady cross the road? Is it putting your life at stake for a complete stranger? Is it making sacrifices for other people? Is it all of the above? I trust I’m not too far off the mark. If people think their definition of love is wildly different from mine, they can tell me on this thread. Is there anyway of showing we have unconditional love other than by some action, physical or otherwise (although I can’t think of an example for the otherwise)? If someone thinks there is, I’m all ears. If that is the case, what action do we think the God of “unconditional love” is taking to ensure the retention of that title?

If you happen to witness an assault on some helpless person, would you stand by and do nothing because you love everyone equally or would you launch into the fray hoping to rescue the victim?

By the above definition, at least on this realm, unconditional love is next to impossible because nothing other than action can demonstrate it and since we cannot always act in a loving way, we cannot ever assume a state of continuous unconditional love. There will come a time when your pacifist demeanour will be tested and you will have to react? There will come a time when your humanity and love will diminish to the point of being feral. Those times are becoming more and more frequent in our daily lives. We are seeing more and more people, especially in the teenage years, wantonly losing control and seeking to destroy themselves and whoever else happens to be in the way.

To conclude then, while it is of course the ultimate nice-to-have, the idea of unconditional love is not possible however much we want it. The reality and the best we can strive for is “unconditional indifference” where we try to love those who love us back - even that often proves to be a challenge - and hope our limits are not tested too frequently.

[Krullenjongen]

God is an angry god; god is a judgemental god, god is a jealous god, god is a spiteful god, god is a vengeful god, ,,, (Jesus taught that these things were sinful.)

This is why I will not worship the 'god' that is presented in the bible,,, I'm not sure i would even let someone like this in my house.



Jake, I trust you're talking about that tyrant named Jehova?

Cheers,
Fred

Indeed,,, Cheers, Jake.

I was expecting something more from people here and especially from a moderator!!!
Do you really feel these post add anything to this discussion or even have anything to do with it?
Or were you just trying to piss on the christian and jewish faith???

[Unified Serenity]

God is an angry god; god is a judgemental god, god is a jealous god, god is a spiteful god, god is a vengeful god, ,,, (Jesus taught that these things were sinful.)

This is why I will not worship the 'god' that is presented in the bible,,, I'm not sure i would even let someone like this in my house.



Jake, I trust you're talking about that tyrant named Jehova?

Cheers,
Fred

Indeed,,, Cheers, Jake.

I was expecting something more from people here and especially from a moderator!!!
Do you really feel these post add anything to this discussion or even have anything to do with it?
Or were you just trying to piss on the christian and jewish faith???

wow, I didn't know that this was only open to classically taught and bible believing christian's and Jews. Ok, well have fun in YOUR sandbox, and never never look up or out to seek what might be outside of it. I for one see nothing in common with the God of Jesus and Jehovah or Yahoveh or Yawey or Allah oh whatever freaking name you wanna call a God who would sanction raping and murdering entire groups of people, stoning a child to death for disrespecting his parents, or letting a rapist pay off a girls father so he can have her has his wife and she has no say.... whatever DUDE. I am in a bad mood today, the above should now be all sprinkled with everlasting love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, self-control yada yada and forget there may be some who just don't accept what they were taught in Sunday School or Shule anymore.

Serenity the not so peaceful today

[RedeZra]

everybody knows that we are spirits trapped in a wheel of physical existence

so death is just a release of the spirit within


but it seems to be possible to loose even one's spirit

then one is nothing no more never