Baby market commercialized

[Gaia]

Babies by nobody and for nobody are an institution in France. How long before we have a properly commercialized baby market ? Complete with the ability to return children if they're not up to scratch, too ugly, too dumb or annoyingly sick all the time ? There could also be a thriving second-hand market, with reduced prices for barely used babies.

Why should children not do their bit for the capitalist system ? And it would totally work, because the market is always right ! So yeah "Baby selling" Rings sound like some sinister thing that's different than what is in fact legal, but it's not really all that different.

Which is quite frequently, equally a product of a capitalist market that is indifferent to human suffering.

Gaia

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/les-enfants-x-denied-their-true-identity-2333283.html

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/08/san-diego-attorney-pleads-guilty-in-baby-selling-ring.html

[Lord Sidious]

That is a very, very sad article.
No compassion by the system for these people.
Not that I am surprised, I just get angry every time it is confirmed to me.

[daledo]

Ahhh... I have thought about this before. Parents could rent a baby and make their teenage daughter keep it for a month to show them how hard it is being a young mother. Might be a great form of birth control lol

[Gaia]

The one thing I absolutely cannot do is carry a baby with my DNA, and then sell it. I’ve always known I was adopted. I don’t remember being told it was just a plain fact, like having elbows. But I do remember being told that it made me special that my mother and my father wanted a daughter badly, and waited for me, picked me.... It was never anything I was ashamed of or upset about. My parents picked me !!!!! They wanted me !!!! But there comes a time when you wonder who you are where you came from, whose hair you have, who to blame for your big feet and your nose. You wonder if the all encompassing loneliness that you always feel, the otherness, has anything to do with the fact that you were separated from your mother so early. :( You wonder if your mother felt betrayed and sad when pregnant with you, explaining your own sadness through your life. You wonder if you’d be happy if you weren’t adopted.

That's my story.

Gaia

[Lord Sidious]

The one thing I absolutely cannot do is carry a baby with my DNA, and then sell it. I’ve always known I was adopted. I don’t remember being told it was just a plain fact, like having elbows. But I do remember being told that it made me special that my mother and my father wanted a daughter badly, and waited for me, picked me.... It was never anything I was ashamed of or upset about. My parents picked me !!!!! They wanted me !!!! But there comes a time when you wonder who you are where you came from, whose hair you have, who to blame for your big feet and your nose. You wonder if the all encompassing loneliness that you always feel, the otherness, has anything to do with the fact that you were separated from your mother so early. :( You wonder if your mother felt betrayed and sad when pregnant with you, explaining your own sadness through your life. You wonder if you’d be happy if you weren’t adopted.

That's my story.

Gaia

I am glad that you realise that you are a daughter by choice and not by accident like most of us.
I hope that gives you some comfort.

[Gaia]

Society already compels the parents to care for their children...I have much respect for your position Rob.

[Gaia]

The one thing I absolutely cannot do is carry a baby with my DNA, and then sell it. I’ve always known I was adopted. I don’t remember being told it was just a plain fact, like having elbows. But I do remember being told that it made me special that my mother and my father wanted a daughter badly, and waited for me, picked me.... It was never anything I was ashamed of or upset about. My parents picked me !!!!! They wanted me !!!! But there comes a time when you wonder who you are where you came from, whose hair you have, who to blame for your big feet and your nose. You wonder if the all encompassing loneliness that you always feel, the otherness, has anything to do with the fact that you were separated from your mother so early. :( You wonder if your mother felt betrayed and sad when pregnant with you, explaining your own sadness through your life. You wonder if you’d be happy if you weren’t adopted.

That's my story.

Gaia

I am glad that you realise that you are a daughter by choice and not by accident like most of us.
I hope that gives you some comfort.


I'm glad that I am adopted. I enjoy the special feelings I get from simple, everyday things; I like that I have two names :p I don't really have any other issues related to being adopted. I've never felt angry about it. In fact, I seem to thrive off of my individuality. It is difficult to ponder and work through something, however, when there's no one around to help.

Much love to you Rob !

Gaia

[Lord Sidious]

The one thing I absolutely cannot do is carry a baby with my DNA, and then sell it. I’ve always known I was adopted. I don’t remember being told it was just a plain fact, like having elbows. But I do remember being told that it made me special that my mother and my father wanted a daughter badly, and waited for me, picked me.... It was never anything I was ashamed of or upset about. My parents picked me !!!!! They wanted me !!!! But there comes a time when you wonder who you are where you came from, whose hair you have, who to blame for your big feet and your nose. You wonder if the all encompassing loneliness that you always feel, the otherness, has anything to do with the fact that you were separated from your mother so early. :( You wonder if your mother felt betrayed and sad when pregnant with you, explaining your own sadness through your life. You wonder if you’d be happy if you weren’t adopted.

That's my story.

Gaia

I am glad that you realise that you are a daughter by choice and not by accident like most of us.
I hope that gives you some comfort.


I'm glad that I am adopted. I enjoy the special feelings I get from simple, everyday things; I like that I have two names :p I don't really have any other issues related to being adopted. I've never felt angry about it. In fact, I seem to thrive off of my individuality. It is difficult to ponder and work through something, however, when there's no one around to help.

Much love to you Rob !

Gaia

And to you, glad you came back.

[Gaia]

In the meantime Rob, try to remember who you are and the many blessings that do exist in your life and miracle comes in a crisis, and a blessing is designed to keep us out of a crisis.

Welcome back my friend:)

Gaia

[Hervé]

Bienvenue de retour!

I am just wondering... are you sure your parents picked you and not the reverse?

Meaning: you chose them knowing they would pick you... without a nudge from the spirit realm...

Just a thought but, if true... then you are quite a being!

[Gaia]

Cher Amzer Zo, quand mes parent m'ont vu à l'orphelinat de Pointe aux Trembles chez les bonnes soeurs, c'était un dimanche de 1967 après une visite à l'Expo de cette année à Montréal, je m'amusais avec les autres et parait-il que j'était couverte de chocolat au visage donné par les visiteurs... Ma mère et mon père non peu résister à mes yeux bleus et mes cheveux blonds et le visage barbouiller de chocolat. Mais je sais que je les ai choisi c'était Karmique..

Désolé mon google translator ne fonctionne pas ...HA! Ha!

Gaia

[Hervé]

Touchant... et touché!

Too bad about Google translator; hope the readers' one works.

[Gaia]

Je l'espère bien pour eux mon ami Amzer Zo et Merci: Mmmmm... Y pas juste Jésus qui est née à la crèche:p

http://genealogie.planete.qc.ca/file/pic/gallery/344794.jpg

Crèche St-François d'Assise
14 135, rue Prince-Arthur (Pointe-Aux-Trembles)

[Hervé]

Mmmmm... Y pas juste Jésus qui est née à la crèche:p



I had a good laugh with that one... quickly sobered up at the site of the orphanage... reminded me my mom spent her entire youth and teen age years in a similar facility with nuns during WWII, her parents being locked out by the German Navy in a far away location.

[Hervé]

Chère amie, I was holding back on starting a new thread on the darker aspect of what you started here. Then reading about the full moon in another thread and reading your contribution here... Ok, it's time!

Because in some people's mind... it's just business and how much profit can be made, bribes included... hence nothing is done about it.

Here it is: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?27790-While-you-were-out---business-as-usual&p=283872&viewfull=1#post283872

Merci de m'avoir donné le courage.

[Carmody]

The one thing I absolutely cannot do is carry a baby with my DNA, and then sell it. I’ve always known I was adopted. I don’t remember being told it was just a plain fact, like having elbows. But I do remember being told that it made me special that my mother and my father wanted a daughter badly, and waited for me, picked me.... It was never anything I was ashamed of or upset about. My parents picked me !!!!! They wanted me !!!! But there comes a time when you wonder who you are where you came from, whose hair you have, who to blame for your big feet and your nose. You wonder if the all encompassing loneliness that you always feel, the otherness, has anything to do with the fact that you were separated from your mother so early. :( You wonder if your mother felt betrayed and sad when pregnant with you, explaining your own sadness through your life. You wonder if you’d be happy if you weren’t adopted.

That's my story.

Gaia

I am glad that you realise that you are a daughter by choice and not by accident like most of us.
I hope that gives you some comfort.


I'm glad that I am adopted. I enjoy the special feelings I get from simple, everyday things; I like that I have two names :p I don't really have any other issues related to being adopted. I've never felt angry about it. In fact, I seem to thrive off of my individuality. It is difficult to ponder and work through something, however, when there's no one around to help.

Much love to you Rob !

Gaia

I never got to know my grandfather on one side of my family. But he comes through often. I was told I'm the spitting image of him. Once I finally heard stories of him, I then understood some of my quirks - I knew where they came from.

[Carmody]

Bienvenue de retour!

I am just wondering... are you sure your parents picked you and not the reverse?

Meaning: you chose them knowing they would pick you... without a nudge from the spirit realm...

Just a thought but, if true... then you are quite a being!

In the spiritual realm both happen.

Just last night, someone had a dream about connecting with me. I had a dream about connecting with them. Today we connected, in the exact pattern illustrated as a coming communication, in these two separate dreams.

thus, we see through time, there is no time on that level.

Gaia,

You planned to be with your parents, they planned to be with you. In reality, at that spiritual level, you've probably known them for countless lives.

[Hervé]

Makes sense that it's a mutual thing.

Thanks for the clarification.

[Carmody]

Makes sense that it's a mutual thing.

Thanks for the clarification.

yeppers!

BTW, I like your avatar. Says about all there is needed to know about the human condition.

[Hervé]

Makes sense that it's a mutual thing.

Thanks for the clarification.

yeppers!

BTW, I like your avatar. Says about all there is needed to know about the human condition.

Thanks!


Indeed!


Chose it as the reverse variation on the ugly duckling tale...

[Corncrake]

Both interesting and disturbing articles. My eldest sister had a baby at 17 back in the early 1960's - it was adopted and a few years later my sister went on to get married and have three more children. In the late 1980's her first child got in touch with her through Norcap, she was accepted by the rest of the family and they have been close ever since. If she had been born in France that never could have happened and what a loss to everyone concerned. The baby business is a worrying one. Unless you have been through infertility it is hard to understand the overriding desperation to have a child - for both men and women - and this is what these rackets thrive on. Two of my best friends were very happily adopted - one chose to trace her original parents the other did not. Freedom of choice.

[Gaia]

It can be extermely hard to hear about the extent of many firstparents pain. I am an adoptee, and I completely understand the difficult emotions this brings up for adoptees. My firstmother was ... for a brief period and hearing the details of that and it's relationship to my adoption was extremely difficult and uh... Something I'm not sure is a good thing for firstparents to share with their adopted out kids, but I'm glad I know. So on the one hand, I'm not interested in making adoptees hear about it because damn it sucks for adoptees to hear about. On the other hand, if we hide the amount of firstparent pain that is happening that adds to keeping what goes on in a adoption kept secretive and first mothers feel like they are unable to share their pain and get the support they need. I do not want anyone to bear such pain in silence.

And as I am also a mother, I know what that is like as well.

Paying people for their kids is an extremely complicated practice and I certainly can't speak to what every woman who has been propositioned in such a way or who has attempted or sold a child feels about it. I do read about human trafficking and the family stories in third world countries and I think the experiences range drastically. When everyone's starving, human life itself can mean different things than when conditions are good and of course there are cultural differences that I can't speak to understanding either. Baby and child selling tends to be more common in poorer countries and it's not always with the intended purpose of "a better life" however when everyone is starving it might even seem like selling a child into slavery BUT WHERE THEY CAN EAT might be a kindness and allow the family to provide more food for the other children with the money. I don't know, I can only speculate.

Outsourcing surrogacy and surrogacy itself is a challenging area as well because in wanting to respect autonomy we want to respect everyone's choice, however if the choices are limited to sycky options, it becomes pertenent that perhaps if we want to be compassionate we could seek to create the existance of options that aren't so exploitive to empower people who are struggling i.e. instead of saddling people up with either starvation or work in a factory that causes cancer we could create better standards in work environments so that people are not choosing between two really sucky options.

[Gaia]

If she had been born in France that never could have happened and what a loss to everyone concerned.

According to Claude Sageot-Chomel, president of DPEAO, an association which defends the rights of people to know their origins, the law persists because France is fundamentally a conservative country. He argues that the legislation is a way of "Manufacturing children without any kin to suit the profitable adoption industry... There has been a huge amount of Catholic influence on the medical world to defend a woman's right to give birth in secret". He suggests that the state's refusal to acknowledge that a child can have multiple filiations comes from fears that this would open the way to gay adoption and the development of unconventional family structures.

[Carmody]

Since it is a life lesson game, the incarnations..... not being able to have a child and then wanting one and going thorough hell on that level - is part of a lesson, a plan. Getting one's self past the ego and through the barrier is tricky, but all this does become clear, when on the other side of that internal barrier.

Choices are presented, decisions are made, lessons are learned.

[Maia Gabrial]

Daledo,
I'm not sure it would work because it's not the same as having your own baby where you can't just get rid of in a month; or that you're bored with it. But the idea is right on. It's not easy....A baby changes your life..... and they don't come with a manual; so, you have to figure them out as you go along.
But they're also the greatest blessing in your life....

[Gaia]

Daledo,
I'm not sure it would work because it's not the same as having your own baby where you can't just get rid of in a month; or that you're bored with it. But the idea is right on. It's not easy....A baby changes your life..... and they don't come with a manual; so, you have to figure them out as you go along.
But they're also the greatest blessing in your life....

Here my mom list observations :

A. You finally stop to smell the roses, because your baby is in your arms.

B. Where you once believed you were fearless, you now find yourself afraid.

C. The sacrifices you thought you made to have a child no longer seem like sacrifices.

D. You respect your body ... Finally.

E. You respect your parents and love them in a new way.

F. You find that your baby's pain feels much worse than your own.

G. You believe once again in the things you believed in as a child.

H. You lose touch with the people in your life whom you should have banished years ago.

I. Your heart breaks much more easily.

J. You think of someone else 234,836,178,976 times a day.


Merci Maia Gabrial:)

[Maia Gabrial]

Beautiful, Gaia....